Transcript of Morning Breath Energy with Chris Appleton: Thursday, January 22nd, 2026

Good morning, girlies. It's The Toast. It's Jackson Claude, and we're your hosts. It's your favorite show, the fast five things you need to know. We'll start your day off swirly, It's The Toast.

They sound amazing. Welcome back to The Toast. Today's episode is such a special episode because Cogers and I filmed something so exciting yesterday. As you can see from the title, Chris Appleton is a guest on today's show. If you've been a toaster for a long time, you know all the lore, which we get into with Chris at the end of this episode. However, we did something so only something Jackson Claude could do, which was a live haircut with Chris Appleton. And we didn't get to show the grand reveal because he blew out Koji's hair. She seriously looked like a Victoria's Secret bombshell. And we want to do the reveal of Claudia's hair. She told Chris, Do your thing. And here is the new Claudia.

Hi, everyone. I got a Bob, and yes, I got a Chris Appleton. Bob, don't be jealous. I'm bobbing and weaving due to Chris Appleton, okay?

If you are listening, you're missing the visual. But Claudia, this is her favorite thing to do in life is to get a haircut and pretend I got a Bob.

Obviously, I didn't get a Bob. Are you guys fucking crazy? Ready for the reveal?

Show the hair. It's sickening. Okay. Sickening.

Go off my camera. I want to do a big reveal. Okay. Okay.

Juj it up. Show us everything. It's so sick. It's so gorgeous. And now A Princess. O-m-g.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Not only is he going to get my hair cut by Chris Appleton, he blew it out, he styled it.

He did not cut corners because we were ready for him to cut your hair wet.

We're just going to do it and like...

And then you'll dry it at home. No, he wasn't going to leave you with a wet head like a little rat.

Not only did he not leave me with a wet head like a little rat, he took his little kitchen shears. He cut the shit out of my hair. It's actually right behind me in an acrylic box. Yes. There was so much hair. I couldn't believe it.

So New New Day core alert. Claudia's merkin.

Asmr. The M in ASMR stands for merkin. But not only did he do all that, in a matter of 35 seconds, Jackie was like, I feel like my hair feels just a little flat.

I just really wanted... I got a haircut recently, but my front piece is short enough for me, and I just want more layers. And I was so jealous of Koji's hair. I could vomit. Chris was so funny and so nice to us. He's literally cutting my hair.

Like, as we're leaving the property.

As we're walking, he's walking and cutting my hair. And I don't know- Jackie, the way he breathed new life into you in 10 seconds.

Guys, when I tell you it was not more than one minute long, it was insane to watch. Obviously, my whole transformation was amazing. The real magic was the back alley haircut that you got from Chris Appleton. When I tell you we are so obnoxious, like, Oh, Chris Appleton is coming. Let's all get our haircut. Hey, as he's leaving, we're like, Hey, can you spray some color on our hair? We milked our opportunity for all of us. It's probably the only time in our lives we will get our haircut by Chris Appleton, the same guy who does Kim Kardashian. It's insane. We were not taking the opportunity for granted. So, yeah, we got layers.

Claudia actually has been looking to get a haircut while she's in Florida because she needed a haircut and she couldn't settle on where to go. And then we're like, let's do a live haircut with Chris Appleton, which if you've been around a while, is so morning breath-coated.

This is like the wild shit we used to do on the breath.

When we had unlimited budget. I got my ears pierced live on the morning breath. Oh my God. We did a baking segment with Krispies.

The girl who used to make Krispies.

What happened to her? We were just always doing the wildest shit and doing it live. And yesterday, actually, I was like... Had flashbacks. It was actually nice because I was like, Oh, wow, we're still those same girls.

And I think that a resolution is we need to be doing... Now that we're here together for as long as I am here, we need to be doing more like more Morning Glory type shit, going on coasters for the podcast.

On the regular show? Yeah. I guess we usually save that stuff for Patreon. It felt very Patreon.

Oh, it did. But you didn't have to pay to see this. Okay. He gave us a ColorWaouh promo code. It's in the episode description.

We talk a lot about ColorWaouh in our interview with him because we're obsessed, and he put us onto it when he came to The Toast in 2019.

And it turns out he owns part of the company. I thought he was just a paid ambassador.

So it's Toast 20, stock up. That shit we use every day, the shellack, the pop and lock and jam and break.

The The interview/live hair cut is at the end of today's episode. You guys are seriously going to crack up. It's so special. It's so special. And you will actually see the transformation. Today versus yesterday, I have so much life. I can't stop looking at the monitor.

Oh, we can turn off the monitor.

No, we can. We have so much life in my hair. Obviously, it wasn't a dramatic, drastic haircut. I was never doing that. And Chris actually said himself he would not recommend me getting a bob. I'm always like, I'm going to get a bob. He's like, Don't. I don't have the right face shape for it. No, that's not what he said. I don't have the right hair texture for it. I actually have very wavy hair. I have big, thick hair. That's not the type of gal who should be getting a bob. So that made me feel good because I'm always like, I'm so not fun. I'll never get a bob. And here Chris Appleton is telling me not to.

Whenever I'm ready to get my bob, probably in a couple of years.

Hopefully Chris is writing the sequel to his book and he'll come back.

One thousand %. And I will wait for him.

The pressure to continue being a successful show so that we're on Chris Appleton's radar the next time he writes a book is on. The first day of the rest of our lives starts today.

One thousand %. Goals.

Now- That's goals. We need to tell you guys that, but I also just had to say something. Like a major correction from yesterday. I really don't want to talk about Chris Baldoni, whatever his name is.

Correction again.

Every time I get something wrong, which there's so much information, I'm sorry, I'm never going to get it right. And also I'm just not one of those people. I'm not reading all the documents. So Blake and Justin both edited the movie. Blake's tested significantly worse, and they went with Blake's version.

So what's so crazy is we've been talking about this for so long, and I did not misspeak yesterday. I was completely under the impression that it was Justin's version that went to theaters, and Justin's version tested better.

It was Blake's. And hers tested worse.

That wasn't something that... I learned it wrong then. You know what I mean?

And I just want to say this is the most insufferable saga. We are going to talk about it, obviously, because Taylor Swift takes. There's so much more. But I just had flashbacks. We even talked about it in a while, and then there was a period of time where we were talking about it every day. And I'm sorry, the Baldoni girls are just obsessed with telling me that I'm wrong. I don't have an opinion anymore, okay? You guys have beat me into submission. I don't care. I hate all these people. Goodbye.

I don't really have a strong opinion. I can never remember whose side I'm on. And there are a lot of other ancillary players on both sides, some of which I like and some of which I don't like. And I can't remember who's team I'm on.

Well, I think it's also getting very complicated for people with Taylor now because- Whose team is Taylor on? Well, so now technically her and Blake are not friends, but these text messages that we're going to talk about were when they were allies, and people are saying it's making Taylor look bad. It's so not. But I think people don't know how to act because this is very much a women's issue. The only people who care about this who are making TikToks, reading the documents, are women. And they are overwhelmingly team Baldoni, but they also love Taylor Swift. And that's always been this crossroads for people. And now I think they're trying to make it look like through these text messages, Taylor is a villain. She's not. We'll talk about it.

What I read of Taylor's text, I didn't think reflected negatively on her.

No, people are really fixating on the fact that she called him a whiny bitch or something in one of the text messages.

I cannot believe we're reading these people's text messages. When we were reading that, I felt so uncomfortable. I cannot get over it. For a year or two years, we've been speculating, Why aren't they seeing together? Why aren't they hanging out? And now we have their text messages. I don't know what part of the Constitution allows us to see this when it feels wrong.

Agreed. Seriously, eradicate the Constitution. Is anybody else texting differently?

Oh, we're not texting at all. Now I can say that. You know how I don't answer text?

It's for my privacy. It's because of the Constitution.

It's because I'm going to be subpoenaed.

No, literally. The fact that the most elite Taylor Swift, nobody's more famous, more powerful in the country, and her text messages are getting leaked.

Also, what does give me a little bit of peace is I think Blake knew that these messages were going to get out because she had changed her tone in how she was speaking to her friends. That's what Taylor's gripe with her was.

Also, these text messages were given to the court by Blake and her team. They're meant to help Blake, although cringe and whatever. They are made to make it look like, Look, I was under severe distress. Look, I was not in control. I was begging people for help. So they're all in support of her case. You know what? I really don't want to talk about this anymore. Every time people are going to be like, Well, no, it's not in support of her case. Please, seriously, fuck off. Because they'll be like, No, Justin's team put it. Yeah, like, Fuck off. I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. And I also, I hate everyone now that's involved in this saga. Please.

Taylor. You hate Taylor?

Oh, you're one of them. You're one of them. You're one of them.

Claudia hates Taylor Swift.

One of Beldonia's Angels. No, if anything- Beldonia's Angels. That's you. That's me. If anything, this saga, I believe, makes Taylor look very good, and we'll talk about why.

I agree. We will get into it. We have so many stories today. I did so much homework last night.

Oh, yeah. Me too.

Caught Up on Tell Me Lies. How many episodes are there?

Four. Oh, I'm all caught up.

I watched Kim on Chloe in Wonderland. That will be a story today. Okay, good.

I watched the first maybe 20 minutes of it this morning.

Great. And I read for the Redheads, Wilder Shore. We're recording tomorrow. We're getting our shit together this year. Still wouldn't recommend it to a friend, but I'm excited to- Wouldn't recommend the podcast to a friend. Wouldn't recommend the book to a friend.

Oh, that's what you made it. The red heads like, We're getting our shit together. Still wouldn't recommend it to a friend.

Oh, sorry. We're getting our shit together, period. Enter. New paragraph. Tab. I wouldn't recommend this book to a friend.

Tabularassa.

Tabularassa. I wonder if that's what tab is short for.

Wait, because you're starting fresh. Wait. One thousand %. Wait, wait, wait.

Or like a new tab. That's tabularassa. One thousand %.

Where does the abbreviation tab come from? The latin. Not being able to talk to text. Etymology. Okay, tablet, tabulation, or tabulator.

The tablet is for tabula rassa. Like a blank tablet, I believe.

What language is tabula rassa? Latin. Okay, so let me say the Greek root. So the abbreviation tab comes from tabula, and rassa is table.

Oh, TABULA.

Oh, my God. Like, not just us being a part of etymology.

It's so true.

I love that.

Tabula. Rasa.

Tabula.

I'm Tabula. I'm Tabula. You're RASA.

You're really not meeting me in the middle.

Yeah. So that's your English lesson for the day.

So we actually have a lot to do. I do love to dilly-dally- In the midst of the story. In the midst of the stories, yeah. Between Tell Me Lies, the Chris Appleton review, the Taylor Swift text messages.

Oh, this episode is going to be Noorography Central.

Yeah.

So I feel comfortable getting into the Fast Five stories that you two need to know.

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Thank you, your first turt.

You're welcome.

Our first story, very exciting news out of Netflix yesterday. Couple of things, couple of things for the girlies. First up, Alex Earle a new Netflix reality show about her family. Yesterday, it was announced that Netflix will be debuting an Alex Earle reality series this year. Per the streamer, the show will spotlight the Gen Z It Girls modern family, including her influencer sister, Ashton, and her group of friends. It promises to document the real-time messiness of a young woman in transition. So this has been talked about for a while now, working title Earle Girls. I don't know if this is Earle Girls, but we are finally getting Alex Earle reality TV show.

Yeah. I also feel like I don't know in history or recent history, a time where Netflix has teased a project before it's even been filmed. I feel like we find out something because of the trailer or a cover art. I think they picked up cameras literally yesterday. Oh, really? Yeah. I feel like Netflix is so in development on this. I feel like I just got the vibe that they're investing a lot of money in this.

Yeah. So she said in a statement, I share a lot of my life on social media, and people think they know everything there is to know about me and my family, but honestly, there's still so much more. We are so happy that the show found a home with Netflix. At its core, the show is about our fun, loving, and sometimes chaotic modern family, and how we always show up for each other through it all. It sounds filmed.

Oh, really? I did not get the vibe that it had been filmed. I feel like if Alex was out and about with a whole ass camera crew, we would have known about it. Yeah. And also they would have teased with a little something. It was this pre-made clip of her at the Netflix office, cute little skit. I just got the vibe that it has not been filmed yet.

Got it. Well, it's very exciting, nonetheless. I I do hope Sally's in it because it did say her friend. She is.

Alex posted a picture. She said her friends will be a part of it, and then she posted a picture of all these cameras and Sally sitting in the middle of them.

I go.

Okay, what do you feel like this means for the Nader sisters? Don't you feel like the description sounds exactly like what their show is?

Yes, but I think I can personally, as the target demo for both of the shows, hold space for both, especially as they withhold season 2 of Love Thi Nader from us. Quite literally. And maybe we could get on a schedule where I'm either watching Love Thy Nader or Earl Girls. Also, everything takes up about a week now. So I have 51 other weeks of the year to watch Beautiful Sisters doing things.

We probably have like, 45 other weeks because we've got like, Secret Lives: The Morgan Wives, which last swim week. Saucy Show is coming out.

Right. So I have the time. Do not worry about me making time for beautiful sisterly content. Yeah.

I mean, there's so much lore with her family. We talk about it all the time. So I do think a reality show is perfect. I'm dying to know more about her dad. He's very much involved. They talk I don't think we hear from him a lot. He's in the background. So he's married to, obviously, Alex's stepmom, who is a content creator herself, too. She posts a lot of fashion stuff, wealthy woman content, very hunting lives. And you see him in the background. He's like, curmudgeon businessman. So I am really looking forward because he's fascinating, obviously, his history as well. So I am so looking forward to this. I will be the first person watching. I love that she did this. There was a lot of talk when she first got famous about her pitching a show. I don't know if she pitched it unsuccessful or she decided it wasn't the right time, but this is so premium. I'm doing it in partnership with Netflix. People are so excited. I'm so excited. It's going to be great.

It is going to be great. Netflix also announced that they will be home to a couple more podcasts video podcasts, including Therapus with Jake Shane, 48 Hours, and Stasi with Tay. So Stasi announced yesterday that she's rebranding her podcast Stasi, now to be Stasi with Tay, with Taylor Strucker as a permanent co-host, and the videos will live on Netflix.

So Netflix is snatching them up. And I'm waiting for other streamers to do it. Hulu has the Tell Me Lies podcast, which now is on Hulu, which I think is a good gateway to podcasts. But I feel like everyone's slipping.

I think Peacock has a Trader's podcast that's on Peacock. Okay.

So the post-show, it's just called an after-show. They don't need to call it a podcast if they're just putting it on the streaming service. No, I mean, if they really want to get into the game, people are not signing up for Peacock so they can watch the Trader's podcast.

And there's difference between an after-show, post-show for the show that you're doing in promotion of the show versus just a random podcast that has nothing to do with pre-existing content.

Because I saw people talking about this more, labeling things as podcasts so you can do non-union projects. And having a stream named After Show being labeled as a podcast does feel like a workaround to the union issue.

I can't believe if it really is just all about cutting out Sagafstra.

I don't think it's all about that, but I think it's an added benefit. Like, look, podcasts are so low lift. More people watch podcasts than most cable TV shows. And a A podcast costs $100. Well, no. You can rent a studio.

Not the ones that are on Hulu and Netflix. No, of course.

I think this is great. And also they're coming for a YouTube snack. I wonder if YouTube... Because a lot of, up until recently, most podcasters who filmed their videos. You put it on YouTube for free.

That's the video platform for a podcast.

And now, if you're on Netflix, you're not allowed to upload your new episodes.

So I wonder if YouTube will now pay podcasts to stay on YouTube.

Some people are paid exclusively to stream their video on Spotify. So Spotify is in the game. They're taking people from YouTube. Netflix is now in the game taking people from YouTube. I wonder if YouTube is going to accept their pussy app or if Apple will ever give us a video podcast. Oh. Remember them?

Well, that would just change everything. That would bust this case wide open. Yeah. Well, Rising Tides, Race All Shy. It's very exciting for the industry.

You know, I actually, Ben did not know that podcasts were on, so I went to go show him. And there's not a category for... I literally searched podcast, and it was the number one trending search on Netflix. So people are obviously looking for it. They need to add a tab.

Yeah.

You Rasa.

Eula Rasa.

No, Eula Rasa.

They do need to add a tab Eula Rasa.

Or something like...

Yeah. Well, very exciting. Good work, Netflix.

Good work, Netflix.

To see you making good decisions? Mm-hmm. Our next story, just to circle back. Blake Lively and Taylor Swift's text reveal why their friendship began fracturing. Miss my funny dark, normal speaking friend, Taylor says.

It does reveal a little bit that things on the Rocks, but I don't believe that their 10-year friendship ended because Blake was talking different.

No, but this was the beginning. Corrects. In legal docs unsealed on Tuesday before a summary judgment hearing in Lively's ongoing lawsuit against Justin Baldoni, an apparent text message exchange between the former best friends included in the filing gives insight into their relationship. While the text messages do not include the stars' names, other documents in the filings describe the exchange as a conversation between Lively and Swift. Blake says, I have no reason to ask, but I don't know. I've been feeling like I should. Is everything okay? I felt like a bad friend lately because I was such a sad sack who only talked about my own shit for months. You were generous to not only be the key person there for me during all of it, but also to let me off the hook for being so in it. I always want the opportunity to be a better friend if there's something I unintentionally did. I know how busy and taxed you are, physically, emotionally, practically, so I don't expect any more from you ever. Just want to make sure all is good.

Okay, and let's just talk about that before we see Taylor's response. I'm curious what she was reading into. She obviously was reading because Taylor's like, No, you're right. I feel like she must have been freaking at the time. Taylor's response.

Taylor said, Not wrong, but it's also not a big deal. She said, I think I'm just exhausted in every avenue of my life, and in recent months, had been feeling a little bit of a shift in the way you talk to me. Yes, there has been a lot of Justin stuff, but I've been through things like this before, and I know how all-consuming it is. It's more like, and I feel really bad saying anything about this because your texts have been so nice in their intent. But your last view, it felt like I was reading a mass corporate email sent to 200 employees. It feels awful to be in any way critical of you... To be critical in... To be in any way critical of any way you process what you've been going through, but I just miss my funny, dark, normal speaking friend who talks to me as herself. I know you feel attacked from all sides for ridiculous reasons, so you're feeling like you have to overly explain things, but it's me. That's just caused a little distance, and you don't need to apologize. Just come back, please.

Okay. To be honest, that is such a nice text message because I'm sure she wasn't sufferable. I think everybody can relate to Asaka where your friend is really in something and you're helping them along with it. It does get exhausting. I'm sure Taylor never would have said anything if Blake didn't just outright ask. So I actually appreciate her honesty, and I think she delivered it in a really lovely way. The fact that we are reading this is so weird.

But it makes me feel better that you said that Blake put forth these text messages.

Yes, that's what I read this morning. So please, if I'm wrong, I can't. I'm not going to be right about everything.

From what I just read, that's what it sounded like was her filing.

Yes. And it's all meant to prove and support her case of whatever she he's pleading to the court. It's just crazy. And I imagine any shred of hope that her relationship with Taylor would be reparable, her supplying these messages to the court for public consumption. Taylor, it's It's an unforgivable thing.

But also sexual harassment?

Yes, right. Sexual harassment.

Yeah. But it's also she's being sued.

She's suing. He's claiming they took over the movie like it was a small country.

She responded by saying she's become digitally paranoid. That clues you into the fact that she, not probably, but thought maybe one day someone would be reading these text messages. Maybe they're a little bit more tailored than they would have been. She said, So, yeah, I've been texting I'm writing, not like me talking. I didn't realize that until you pointed it out, but I see it. On top of that, I'm overpackaging simple things because I felt so deeply misunderstood that I don't trust my judgment of myself anymore. This fucking guy and what he did to me gave me an identity crisis, legitimately. She then said, The thing that spook me most in all of this, though, wasn't the bad guys being bad guys. It was the good guys, my lifelong friends. Tilde. Yeah. Allies to women. It's getting like sponge off. Allies to women. Who quietly dipped. And so I'm Probably being over the top with my friends who stayed because I've never felt more alone. She then thanked Taylor and apologized, no, you to me and to our kids. Fuck that guy and fuck his whole gaggle of supervillions. No, I know. So this exchange took place, I keep wanting to know, three days before Taylor wrapped her tour.

Yes. They had just recently been spotted out together. So there was no- When was that? When they were at Corner store, right?

When did she wrap her tour? In December? I can't remember with international.

Right. I'm just like, I know we're not supposed to say this, but reading that text message really made me feel bad for Blake. I know whatever you want to believe, it's just pathetic. It really is. And this is her one remaining friend, and they're not even friends anymore. It's just... I feel bad. I do. Sorry.

Yeah. I feel I'm sad, too.

The exchange goes on. It's resolved nicely. They're not fighting. It's such a mature conversation. And they do resolve it being like, I'm going to bed, but love you, love you, here for you. Obviously, it shows cracks in the friendship, but this is not where it ended.

But what does it prove in Blake's case?

I have no fucking idea.

We need a documentary. Not that I want more of this, but I do need someone to spell it out for me in an unbiased fashion, if that's even possible. And then there was also messages released between Jamil and Jamil.

Not Jamil and Jamil getting involved.

And so she's Team Baldoni. Yeah.

She called Blake a suicide bomber.

They're cackling at all these TikToks that are going around. So it's like, I don't like that.

Yeah. And I just am at a place where I find Jamil and Jamil insufferable. So I'm going to be on whatever side she's not on.

Right. No, that's what I'm saying. There's players on both sides where it's like, I'm not on any team here because I'm not getting along with all the teammates.

Yeah, right. No, it's very confusing.

And I'm not aligned.

And then people are freaking about the Ben Affleck email because apparently I didn't know this. There's a lot of lore between Ben Affleck and Blake Lively. They filmed a movie together called The Town. She was with Penn Badgley. He was married to Jen Affleck, and there were rumors that they hooked up on set.

He was married to Jen Affleck. Yeah. Yeah. Jennifer Garner.

What was wrong with what I said? No, no. Her name was Jenna. They were married. Yeah, yeah. He was married to Jennifer Garner. There were rumors. And then right after those rumors came out, he was spotted walking with Jen Affleck with a black eye. So it's funny lore, but apparently they're on great terms enough that she could ask for him to take a look at her edit.

Yeah. Those emails were also very over the top. I wound up reading them.

That's so hard. Don't you see her talking like that?

It is. But I also can imagine If you're her friend and she wasn't always that formal, and now she's talking like this because she's just like, dotting her eyes, crossing her teeth. Everything. It's a lot.

No, it's insufferable to be with a friend who's going through this enormous thing and you want to be there for them, but it can be very draining. Yeah. So I relate to Taylor. People are freaking that in her private text messages, which she never thought the worst thing she said was like, little bitch. If the worst thing I said about somebody my friend hates ever got leaked, you would never fucking see me again. I say the most vile shit, okay, about people that I hate. This is Taylor's worst, most deep evil thought, like little bitch. Oh, girl. People are like, She's not that bitch. Seriously, I feel like she wrote hard for her friend and her friend's enemy. Do we not know that about Taylor? She loves her friends. I don't feel like it was even remotely bad. I'm not understanding the Taylor... People are like, this makes Taylor look so bad.

I don't think so at all.

I don't think it makes her look bad at all.

But I wonder what became the thing that really ended their friendship because this is like, we're cooling off, and then they do reconcile. But now they're in a place where they don't talk, they don't follow, they don't see each other. So something more stuff has happened.

And TMZ is saying that Justin Baldoni is now not going to be calling Taylor Swift as a witness. Everything they've gotten subpoenaed is sufficient.

Sufficient for what?

I don't fucking know.

So that's the latest today, and it's not even March yet.

I I just want to say I've seen a lot of people being like, Please have a legal expert on to talk about the Baldony case. I would rather claw my own eyes out- Absolutely not. Than listen to a lawyer read me these depositions. I would actually rather be dead.

Absolutely not. Are you ready for our next story?

More than you even know.

Kim Kardashian went on Chloe in Wonderland and talked about a lot of different things. One thing that might have surprised people, saying that she still to Taylor Swift.

Yeah, it feels like she had a couple of things she wanted to clear up, and so she went on a super safe podcast because I found the conversation about North very interesting. People have a lot to say. Every time North is spotted out, she wears lots of crazy-colored hair and piercings, and and spiky chains, and people are like, What 12-year-old is dressing like that? I think Kim wanted the opportunity to explain. I found that part really interesting just about how she actually lives in a really strict house, but the one area where she lets North just free-ball it as a creative is her wardrobe. She's the parent of an artist, son of an artist. I really appreciated that insight. Also, her homeschooling thing sounds crazy. She's a brand building class. I'm deaf.

Yeah, she makes hats and sells them.

Right. Like, Oh, you want to learn about math? Let's build a business. How many hats do you need to sell to make back your money?

She goes to FIT for Fashion Camp over the summer. She's very immersed in fashion, and that's obviously her creative outlet. Plus, she also produces. Yeah, I think Kim wanted to explain that as best as she could. I thought she did a good job. I thought so, too. But I also feel like I never saw- She knows what she's doing. She doesn't have to explain it to people. She did talk about their parenting, which I found was so interesting. They talked a little bit about their differences in parenting, but Kim was even talking about her differences in parenting her different children. She said the older two have devices, and she was learning on the job, and now she does different things with the younger two, like lessons learned from the older two, which was, I thought, so interesting.

I imagine a huge lesson learned with that Roblox thing.

Yeah, now the younger two don't have devices, even though Saint and North had them at those ages.

I think Chloe is the strictest parent.

Yeah. Well, then Kim Clarke, she's- Not strict. She's just very scheduled and regimened. But as far as discipline, they didn't really touch on that.

It's a very hot button issue. And the one time they did touch on it when Cori wanted to smack one of Scott's kids. It was a really uncomfortable situation.

Yeah, but there are other forms of discipline. No, of course. Like, boundary.

Without smacking. Yeah.

So it would have been interesting to hear more. I love when people talk about parenting. We've been talking about parenting styles a lot. But then Chloe also says her kids are still little comparatively. So it's like she hasn't had to make these big decisions yet about them.

Did you feel like the format of the episode was just a little weird, how Chloe just opened up with rapid fire? That's a game you do at the end.

Yes, I did. And I imagine it's difficult for Chloe when she's interviewing her family, where it's like she knows everything about them. So to ask questions as if she's someone who doesn't is difficult. So she's trying to ask fresh questions for the audience. She wants her sisters to be comfortable, but it's hard to know to kick off. So it more so felt like there are a couple of stories that she feels like her sister should tell, and so she's prompting them to get them to tell those stories. There were moments where it flowed better and it was really enjoyable, but then other times it felt very like, next question.

The podcast is very relaxing. Visually, it's really esthetic, very neutral tones. The Kardashian's are often accused of being monotone, and they are soft speakers. So when the conversation wasn't so titulating, I did find it boring just because it's meant to like, lull to sleep. I'm in Wonderland. It felt like a dreamlike state.

Yeah. There's a part two coming out that's meant to be even jucier. But a couple of things that they talked about, they talked about the elephant Birkin. Kim wanted to clear up the elephant Birkin. She said it was fake, that it was from the set of All's Fair.

What's the elephant Birkin saga? Please remind me.

You told me about it. She was spotted wearing an elephant Birkin, which is like- A Birkin made out of an elephant? Yeah, from the '80s, and it's like an elephant, which is like- All right.

I guess it's not like, freshly made. They obviously don't do that anymore.

But she said that she no longer wears furs that aren't vintage. She won't buy new fur. Ellen Degenera converted her and spoke to her about it. Ellen messaged her about the elephant Birkin was like, What is this? And Kim said it's fake. And Kim said it's fake because on the set of All's Fair, she would bring some of her Birkins, but they also had some, so she would pick one up. What is she doing with a fake Birkin?

She shouldn't have admitted that because now it's like, Well, which of your other bags are fake?

I thought that was so odd. Then they did a segment about Kardashian Closet explaining how it's a- They are so passionate about clearing the name of Kardashian Closet because they I got a whole thing on it on the season, and I feel like that put it to bed for me. I get it. It did. And they did it again on the episode. I was like, I just watched this on the season.

Except I would have loved if the Kardashian's had a thrift store called Poor Little Rich Girl. You could go thrifting through the Kardashian's closet. It's like a physical store. That's what it was supposed to be before Kardashian Closet.

Yeah, but it would be in LA, and we would never go. Now Kardashian Closet, anyone can buy from there. She said, Consignment stores, buy from there. Collectors. It actually is a really great project, and it's great for Cee, but I felt like that had been thoroughly covered.

It didn't bear repeating.

So there wasn't a lot of new tea.

Except the Taylor.

Except the Taylor, but we knew that.

Yes. And it's just the same tone from Kim. When Kim, the last time she was asked about this was literally, Watch what happens live, Plead the Fifth. And he was like, Where are you at? With Taylor Swift and the beef, and she was like, Over it, over it. Like, very flippant about the whole situation, which is easy to have that tone about it when you weren't the injured party because that is so not Taylor's. Taylor fucking hates Kim. She's still writing songs about her. It's her Roman Empire. It's the worst thing that ever happened to her. It's what Blake is referring to when she's talking about when you went through your thing. It is an unf... And Kim is like, Yeah, I'm over it.

I still listen to it. How nice for you? But she also listens to the old music. She makes sure to say that. I feel like the new music is literally about her. What is she going to be listening to? What's the one? Thank you, Amy. Thank you, Amy. So, yeah, she says it's on her playlist, and I feel like they think that that's juicy, but we didn't know that already. I guess we just know everything.

It's also It's almost impossible to not listen to Taylor Swift. Do you know what I mean? It's so embedded in... Especially she has kids. Shake it off is fucking... I hear it everywhere now. It's almost impossible to avoid the music, and I'm sure it's harder to avoid the music. I'm dying to know if any of those kids went to the art store in a secret suite or whatever.

Yeah. They called Jonathan in the middle of the show. I guess people thought they're not friends anymore.

I haven't thought about them as a duo in a while. I might have thought the same. Yeah. They're good?

Yeah, they're great. He was in Miami. He was talking about Chris's party. I feel like he's booked in busy. Kim was saying that they're not throwing a party like that again for a while because it was very expensive. The 70th. Yeah, of Chris. So it was really relaxing.

I would have liked for her to talk about that Megan Markle photo thing.

Well, she did say, should we talk about the party crasher? And then they were in the middle of conversation and that was it.

Excuse me, rewind. Yeah. But wouldn't she have said party crashers if the both of them?

Perhaps. Perhaps. But I felt like, yeah, and honestly, that's the shit we want to hear about.

No, and Kim said at the very beginning, she said, I knew I was going to do Chloe's podcast, but we were only going to do it if we could make it really juicy. And I'm sorry, it is a public service. You need to tell us what the fuck happened with those pictures.

It's true. So she said the second part, I mean, that's how you tease the part, too. Of course. That's going to be more juice. So we'll see. But that's what we need to know. Yeah.

There were a couple of questions. I actually was just... I've always been randomly curious about, what is Kim's natural hair? She was like, Anytime you see me in a bun, that's my natural hair.

But she said the length is what Chloe's was, which is here. Yeah.

And also that she does stem cell injections. She does everything. To keep her hair growth.

She does everything because she's had a journey.

Yeah. And I think when you get your glam done so much, it's- When you bleach your hair, when you have extensions, when you have wigs. I think a lot of celebrities have three strands of hair just from the wear and tear over the years. So she does stem cell injections in addition to the supplements and the serums and things. Yeah.

I thought that was interesting. Yeah, but it was really just party content.

Yeah, it was. It was. Give us more of that.

I love. And then I started watching Kylie's a little bit because it came on after.

This is why the Kardashian's for a while have needed an in-house podcast. I know it took Chloe a long time to be able to do anything public-facing without having an anxiety attack. So I'm respectful of that. But they needed this a while ago because any time there's something to talk about... Remember when Kim needed to address Balenciaga and she went on that really random podcast just because it was a safe thing where she could say her piece? They have needed this for a while.

Yeah, but they didn't even approach it in that way. I guess she talked about North and the Elephant Burk, and which were like two things that were going on. Oh, they also talked a lot about AI content about them. You see those AI photos of Chloe and Victor Webben-Yamma walking on the beach? That's funny. So they talked about that, and When Luca Donchis was traded to the Lakers, there was a fake comment from Kim being like, I guess I need to learn Slovenian.

I'm cracking up.

And then there was a comment from Luca, which no one knows if it was fake or not, being like, no, you don't. Oh, God.

But Kim's comment was real?

No, she said no, it was not real. So it's just so awkward.

And that shit's so annoying.

It's so annoying. And then there was something else that was fake that they wanted to address. So they were talking about all this stuff that aren't the real things that people talk about, but I guess funny. And also the elephant Birkin, she felt like she wanted to address that. Oh, the question from Chloe, which was like, did you ever feel like there was something that your career would not come back from? And Kim was like a million times, but she talked about the divorce again. Which? Chris. Humphreys.

Oh, it's so funny how that's a concern.

For me, I feel like that was the rockiest time for them. The first time we ever doubted.

Yes. But now in hindsight, it's interesting that she still thinks about that.

I think that was a really scary time because she wasn't as big as she is now. And she had the- Now there's really nothing they couldn't come back from. Right. Because they're just like supernovas. But at the time it was a really big deal.

And it was devastating for her fans. Yeah. Yeah.

Because we really shipped them.

We felt like we got played, especially you remember that big drama where there was a scene in Kardashian's that was filmed totally later and cut in to make it look like Kim was always having doubts. It was like a fake scene where they blacked out the car. It was so obvious. So we really felt like we were being duped by people who were supposed to be the opposite of that.

Yeah. And it's not like I felt like the marriage was a lie or it was fake. It just felt all very careless. And he was a nice boy.

Obviously, in the reality show that he was brand new on, he didn't say and do everything right. But I do believe he was a nice boy whose life they really effectively ruined.

Yeah. So I think she's- And justice for that sister. She's right to see that time as the most precarious in her career. Yes. So it was interesting. But there's also so much more they could touch on. So I'm excited for part two. Yeah. Next Story. It's actually going to be a half story. It's going to be some movie news.

I like that.

Subset A is Oscar nominations dropped today. Sinners leads with 16 nominations, and then one battle after another follows with 13.

I feel like I don't care about the Oscars. I know I said I was going to try and watch a movie, but they all look more dreadful than the other. There's a couple big headlines. Timothy was nominated, which is just great. Kylie will most likely- Fuf for the Kylie stands. And it's really looking like, I don't know what Polymarket is saying, but he definitely has a really high chance of winning. He has won almost every award in this circuit until this point.

And he's up against Leo, Ethan Hawke in Blue Moon, Michael B. Jordan in Sinners, and Wagner Mora in The Secret Agent.

The greats. It must be very humbling for him.

Well, Wagner Mora won that other category at the Golden Globes. Oh, right.

Because now it's a consolidated. It's literally Timothy versus Wagner.

Timothy v. Wagner. So it'll probably go to Ethan Hawke.

I will quite literally only be tuning in for Kylie. So if the Oscars knows what the fuck is good for them, they will let Timothy win. It's just like, I need to see that movie. I've heard it was amazing.

Kate Hudson is nominated.

For Blue Song Bird Blue?

Blue Song Bird Blue. That's major. Good for her.

I love Kate Hudson. Actually, I don't know if there are a lot of people in Hollywood I could not say one negative thing about. There's nothing about Kate Hudson's career, personal life, style that I don't like. Running Point was great. No big scandal. She must sleep. That's why her skin is so clear.

She just sleeps well. She has a restful eight hours.

She was born wealthy. She never had to worry about money.

Deep rem, but turned out well despite the odds being stacked against her.

She's a queen for that. And now she's an Oscar nominated queen. And then the other big news is that Wicked was completely snubbed. No Ariana, no Cynthia. Do you even go? I don't think the movie was nominated for any category.

It might have been nominated for music, no? No.

Their original songs were left out of the original song category.

They did all of that. Not that I have a lot against Wicked. I have a couple of things.

I'm kidding.

But I just love the drama of that.

No, I hate when people so obviously do things for a reason. Them making two movies was just a money grab, and them creating really bad original music for the second movie was to get an Oscar nomination. And so when you try really hard to get something and you don't get it, ha ha.

Wait, so they won't even go? Why would they go?

Unless it's as a presenter. But no, do you get invited? I mean, of course, Ariana and Cynthia can go wherever they want, but if they wanted to go, I'm sure they could sneak it invite.

But they shouldn't go because they've been thoroughly snubbed. Best original song, Dear Me from Diane Warren, Relentless.

Give it to Diane Warren. Has she still not won? I don't think she's won. What is it, 60 nominations?

But Golden is nominated from K-Pop Demon Hunter. We're going up, up, up.

It's our moment.

You know together we're glowing. Going to be, going to be, going to be, going.

Give it to them.

Seriously, give it to them. That was the song of the year from the movie of the Year. I Lied to you from Sinners.

Those people, whoever is nominated for Golden, will Most likely... I don't think you can win a Tony, but they'll be Egotts. They'll win a Grammy for it. Yeah. And not an Emmy. Sorry. Okay, so they'll be a go.

Grammy? Oscar. Okay, yeah. But they seem very talented, and they can go on to win and Tony's. They're well on their way. Sweet Dreams from Viva Verde and Train Dreams. So obviously, Golden should win. And if Golden doesn't win because they just like to be different, I vote Diane Warren.

Me too. Seriously, she is Leonardo DiCaprio of the musical industry, and she deserves her flowers.

Yeah. Oh, I guess Miley didn't get nominated. She did a song for Avatar. That's messed up stuff. So, yeah, Oscars.

Looking forward to seeing Kylie there.

Yeah. Some more movie news. Is Sydney Sweeney will star in an Edith Wharton adaptation, Custom of the Country.

Just when you think you know Sydney Sweeney, she's being an OnlyFans model on Euphoria, and then she's being a lesbian boxer. Here she is being a socialite in the Gilded Age. And you know- Named Yudine Sprag. She's so Yudine. There is actually interesting backstory behind this. It was originally Greenlit as a TV show on Apple, starring Florence Pew. But Apple, I think, thought it was going to be too expensive. And it's quite literally the Gilded Age. They already did it. No one's going to do it better than Julian Fellows. And it got canceled, and now it's being repurposed in a movie form.

Honestly, it has all the making. So it's called Custom of the Country.

She's like this narrative Well, who's trying to crack into high society. Yes.

She's an ambitious Midwest woman who attempts to ascend the social ladder in the turn of the century New York. Gilded Age, as described in the official press release, Undine Sprag is armed with beauty, daring hustle, and sheer force of will and unwavering ambition. She battles an entrenched elite, fearlessly courting controversy until love and fortune align.

Now, I haven't seen the housemate, so I'm a little behind, but I just haven't quite figured out yet if Sydney Sweening is a terrible actress. Because when I watched her in euphoria, I was dazzled. I was like, Oh, my God, she is the talent of our generation. And then I watched her in Anyone But You, and I said, How did this girl get out of community theater? It was shocking to see. I do believe those are the only things I've seen her in. So I don't know where I personally landed in her acting ability.

The White Lotus, she was like... Oh, she was great. Yeah, she was great. But that's, no offense, an easy job to sit on a beach, share me a bitch.

That's how I also feel about euphoria. She's just this young girl playing a young girl, a modern- I think playing on Dean Sprag will be really telling.

Yeah. Yeah. And if she can transport us and it just doesn't feel like we're watching Sydney Sweeney in a petticoat.

Yeah, right. If she's like, it's going to either be a dazzling performance or a live-action roleplay of her doing a Civil War reenactment.

But it sounds really good, and I'll be sad.

Yeah, I do think people are hyper fixated on this era in New York because the Guided Age apparently turned out to be an amazing show. When I was watching, I hated it.

I don't think it turned out to be an amazing show because people were saying it was amazing even during the things we didn't like.

Well, Stasi says it's so good. It's her whole personality.

She was saying that season one. So she just liked it.

Season one was fine. It took a couple of episodes to be better, but it was fine. They really lost me in the second season. I couldn't even finish it.

I don't know if I watched the second season.

People say it's so good, Jackie, though. Do we give it another chance?

Maybe I would give it. I have a lot on my plate right now. I'm behind on a couple of things. Maybe I would give it another chance, but I don't know. Maybe because I'm a history major with a concentration in that time. For sure. I feel very close to it.

Well, as a media major, I find media fascinating.

No, you don't. I did take a course on New York. And of course, as someone who watched the Ken Burns documentary, I feel very close to it.

I imagine actually that whilst making this project, leading up to it, Julian Fellows probably did watch the Ken Burns documentary and maybe took a course. So I think that you're good. We're on the same level.

I just would have done something different. Of course. Are you ready for our Frivoltainal Story?

I wouldn't have cast Cynthia Nixon, I'll tell you that.

Oh, hell no.

She's a real Modern Woman. I'm sorry. It's a blessing and a curse to be such a famous actress for one particular thing.

To be so recognizable.

Because I'm like, What the hell is Miranda doing in the 16th century?

I actually would have cleared the decks on the cast. I really don't feel like anyone was well cast except Christine Prinzansky.

Carrie Coon?

No.

Who plays the Russell? No. Oh, she's excellent.

The Other Auntie.

Oh, Slay the House Down, Boots Auntie. I love her. Who plays Cynthia's Sister?

Yeah, and the Dog, Pumpkin.

Maryanne, she sucks. Gloria? No, she's supposed to be Gloria Vanderbilt. What's the daughter's name of Carrie Coon? She sucks, too.

She's obviously Consuelo.

Yes. Sorry. Thank you. And the husband of Carrie Coon, get out of here.

Russell.

I think they're the Russell family.

Oh, yeah. Because why would they call him by his first name?

Mrs. Russell. You're wrong.

She's amazing. I disagree. But it's also because of the accent of the time, that trans-Atlantic accent. We're so not used to it. It's like it's extinct. So it just sounds funny to us.

Yes, yes. But at least it's historically accurate.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but no, I disagree on her. She would go with the rest of them.

No, you're wrong.

Fifth and final story. We'll lean into TV recap. Tell Me Lies. So inside the love lives of the Tell Me Lies cast, this week we found out of two new coupling from the Tell Me Lies cast. Two? So we have- We know Steven- Grace and- Steven and Lucy are dating in real life. Pippa and Wrigley are dating in real life. So cute. And Evan and Molly are dating in real life.

Okay. These two. By the way, who the fuck is Molly?

So last season, he tried to rebound with Grace.

She's like a rando, right?

Yeah. She always really liked He gave her the time of day when Bri was moving on, but he was always hung up on Bri, so it obviously didn't work out because she wanted something more serious, and he wanted Bri. So they broke up. But now this season, she's like, Oh, I could do casual. But she's obviously not doing casual.

She's such a fucking bitch for telling them about Diana. Sorry, spoiler start now.

Tell me Lies Recap starts now. I hate her.

Like, seriously hate.

She was stupid in the way that she went about it, but nothing about the way that Diana shared the information with her was proprietary. She's talking on the steps.

No, she's being very casual about the whole thing.

Very flippin. She never said... Obviously, that's not something you should share, but she never said, Please don't tell anyone, especially knowing that- I feel like that girl only said it because she wants Evan to like her.

She knew it would be a valuable asset.

1,000%, but Diana is a very smart person. So to tell the person who wants to be in Evan's good favor when Evan is best friends and partially living with Steven, that's going to get around.

Now, I know that Steven has been evil since the first episode, but something about this season is highly elevated. He's literally like- Diabolic. It's actually painful to watch. I had to watch all the... I watched three out of four episodes last night, and it left me feeling very emotionally tired. I am looking forward to watching one episode a week. It is a lot. Him in that tunnel, filming a video, a Hamas terrorist, was so distressing. And it's just like, he's an amazing actor, and it's such a terrible character. I'm having a really hard time watching it, him specifically. And I'm enjoying the show so much outside of Lucy and Steven. They've really I built all the characters. I love Bri. Bri is my girl. She's so cute. What is that fuck-cocked haircut they gave her? It's fucking horrible.

I think that was her... She got that haircut in the offseason, so they made it work.

Big mistake. Huge. Put an extension in. She looks horrible. When they go flashing back to the wedding, it's better. But she needs longer hair.

She looks like she's in the '90s. It looks like a haircut for a '90s show.

Starring a boy. She looks terrible. I hate the hair.

Bri and Wrigley just warm my heart, especially because Pippa... Pippa. Pippa Pippa only likes Wrigley as a friend now. So it's like Pippa would be so happy for them. They're so happy together. Diana is my favorite person on this show. She is a queen. She's such a queen. And so I'm happy to see her happy with Pippa. Everything works out nicely.

For everyone except for Wrigley and Brie.

Well, in the future, of course. But no, if everyone- If they break up, it's okay.

Pippa feels like she can't break up with him because he's on suicidal alert from his brother.

She doesn't know that he has his eye on Brie.

And he's doing well. Yeah. He's thriving. And she was really there for him.

She's a good- She's a good friend. They are friends.

I feel like when they started the show and we were at the wedding and we only know Lucy, and Pippa is this curmudgeon-y, like, sfabisina, I was like, hating her. But I love her. She's a good friend, and She's a good person. The Chris McMillon stuff. What's his name? Chris, the brother. Lydia. Yeah, Chris. Oh my God. It gives me such a pit, such a bad situation Lucy has found herself in.

It really is. But she does keep making making it worse because she could have said in that meeting... If she had said in that meeting- If she told the truth. When I said that it didn't happen to me, but it did happen to my friend, so I just wanted to corroborate your story without throwing my friend under the bus because she's not ready to talk about it. But please leave me alone. Yeah. That would have been that in terms of Katie looking to Lucy and also the dean keeping calling her in. And yeah, it's not a good thing to do, but she wouldn't have been kicked out of school for it.

I just want to say, if only school administrators were so crossing their eyes and dotting their T's on campus rape, it's impossible to get arrested if you- Well, you're seeing that with Katie because she did make an allegation that she didn't have enough proof. Right. But I just would have a hard time, especially in 2009, all these administrators were doing their most.

Yeah. So she keeps making it worse for herself. And obviously, how does she not see that Steven's behind this? Who? Lucy. That Steven... Behind the page? Yeah, of course. He's building it up so that he can then post the video. If he posted it right now, he's making her sick with it.

I love the drug dealer, and I want him to end up with Gris. I don't love the drug dealer.

With Brie. But it's like brother sister.

But it's not. It was giving a book. I feel like I've read a book where two foster kids met in this terrible house and ended up falling in love or whatever.

Yeah. I'm not loving the drug dealer. And it seems like Lucy's going down a dark path now.

But isn't it a dark path of forgiveness? I was confused. Well, you like to be beat into submission, so let me beat forgiveness and love into you. Is that what's going on?

Sort of. It's like a humiliation ritual. To make her a better person. I'm confused. But also at the wedding, they keep referencing what Steven did to you sophomore year, and I feel like that's what's coming in terms of the video. And I feel like she's going to start self-harming because the thing with the burn on her leg, it just felt like- Oh, yeah, that was Randa. It felt like a foreshadow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's also seeking out more aggressive partners. And so I feel like she's going to get to a very dark place of self-harming and self-loathing that Steven brought her to. And that's what they keep talking about at the wedding, what Steven did to you sophomore year. Also, last season at the wedding, Her name. Steven and Lucy fucked. Yeah.

Like the night before. No. So it's painful because you're watching this and you think it's resolved itself by the time of the wedding, but they're still very much in it. And I cannot remember what really went on with that bartender. So the bartender was her date at the wedding, right?

Yeah, that's boyfriend, I think.

Until she ditched him and he left, right?

Oh, did he?

He's not there.

They need to give us wedding flashbacks as well.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

Remember, she brought him- I thought that was her boyfriend.

She brought him to the Hot tub to have sex with him just so she could tell Steven that she had sex with him. Or Steven was right outside and watched the whole thing. He figured out. He was like, You're sick, and left.

And Lucy, I do not root for Lucy. I do not like Lucy. She has sweet moments when she's with the girls, but she makes poor choices over and over again. Even having sex with Steven at the wedding, six years later, you're grown, you know what he did to you. You're out of the columns of them. What he did to you sophomore year, everyone keeps talking about. So they're perfect for each other at this point. Might as well be together and stop ruining other people's lives.

You said last season when we were recapping and I kept thinking about it, it's like, Lucy has these huge issues. She is in these lies, like life-ruining stuff. And they would all go away if she just transferred. And I just need to tell her that. I'm like, Girl, switch schools. She does apply for this study abroad program, which of course, she's not going to go on.

And of course, she's late. Does she give a fuck about- How is she still in school? How is she still in school? She applies herself when it's convenient. And of course, the administrator is giving her an extension on the application because of the sexual assault. They think she was trying to get away from that. And so whenever this video comes out, it's also going to affect her study abroad.

Iris Apatow jump scare.

What's that? Who's that?

Iris Apatow?

What did she do?

We're going to get there? Ready?

Who does she play?

Iris Apatow.

Yeah. Did she come into the show? Yeah. As who?

The freshman who's seeing Oliver.

Oh, that's Iris Apatow? Yeah. You don't recognize her? No. It's Iris Apatow. I'm more of a mod girl. Wow. She grew up fat.

I I was like, wait, this girl either really looks like Iris Apatow or she's grown. No, and it's her.

Wow. I haven't seen her since this is 40.

I haven't seen her since Olivia Rodriguez's Instagram, their best friends.

Oh, so she's like a girly.

She's like a swirly about town. Yeah.

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Bre going to confront Oliver also bad. But you also have to remember, they're college students. I know. You're not making the best decisions.

It's their young girls. And this group just needs to be disbanded. I know.

But like, Bre and Lucy, they are playing up their friendship this season, but they do have a true friendship. And the fact that Lucy would debase herself to protect Bre's feelings, whereas- Is sweet. But wrong and misguided because- Misguided. Because Bre should just know. She would obviously it would affect their friendship. I think they could come back from it. She doesn't even like Evan at that moment. She should have told her earlier before she's like, now she's going back to Evan.

Also, there are two people who have successfully untangled themselves from Steven, and that's Wrigley and Diane. Diana, and they are so elevated. When I watch him, I feel peace. And I got, not annoyed, scared for Diana. And she was scared, too, because she did get now that she's pregnant. She got like- Rope back in a little bit. Rope back in. And it's like, girl, I just want her out. I want her safe. I want her just free from his grip. And Wrigley has reached a state of enlightenment. Diana was there as well. And I'm just joyful for them, really overjoyed. And I need everybody to get on their level. I need them to have... And you're expecting a lot from college kids. These are borderline teenagers who are groupthink. But if they could all just band together and just decide to fuck him, it would make me feel a lot better.

Yeah. Which is why Diana sharing the pregnancy so publicly and flippantly is in Congress with the Diana that we know who worked all last semester to successfully disentangle Steven and make him think it was his idea. And now not only are you very connected to him in this moment- You're starting stuff. And she told him, I'm actually fine with my dad. Wait, wait. So he's like...

Yeah, all the work you did.

She showed her hand. That was just not very Diana-like.

I know, but she's going through a lot. She's maybe in a state of distress, the hormones.

She doesn't seem like she's in a state of distress.

No, that's Diana. She keeps it cool.

Yeah. And now she has her lady love.

And she knows she's religious, too, in real life. She is? Yeah.

I didn't know that.

I know. When I found that out, I was really surprised.

But no, she has her lady love. She's got her job lined up and her LSAT scores. Just triple check.

I heard that like a million years ago when I told it to Ben. He was like, Are you sure? Because she was like, shirt off, making out on the show. I'm like, No, I'm pretty sure she's religious. Diana? Tell me lies.

Maybe it's someone else from a different-No, I'm right.

Hold on. I think I'm asking a character. Diana Actress. Alicia Crowder is her name.

Mm-hmm.

No, I think I'm making this up.

Okay. That's okay. It happens.

I just want to just triple check.

There's Iris Hapitaou.

Yeah, right? Where did I hear that?

When she's dating Sam Nivola, who's the little brother from White Lotus.

And she was dating Joe Alwyn's little brother, Patrick.

And that's when she was hanging out with Taylor. She would hang out with Taylor. Yes.

Cool.

Oh, Lydia.

I just fully made it up. Oh, Lydia.

Okay, she fully made that up. Thank you for clarifying. I'm sorry. I have to tell Ben. No, let him go say it on good-bye.

I was so excited to tell... Oh my God, he's going to.

They're going to have her on.

So tell us about your faith. Might be. Might be.

Might be. So that's your Tell Me Lies recap. Such a good show. Seriously, the craziest show, but very immersive and very anxiety-inducing and pitworthy. Yeah. If you're into that thing.

Oh, and Wrigley, without his hair, is a A completely different person.

Wrigley is my favorite person on the show.

Agreed.

Like, easily.

Yeah.

And so what's going to happen with Bre and Evan in the wedding? And also, Steven knows.

Well, I guess Like, Steven, the show can continue now because the show thrives when Steven has things on his friends in which to manipulate and hold over their heads. And so he was running out.

Yeah. And also, I think the show, the 2009 will end when they graduate because without The show is about- College. Steven and Lucy. And then they could pick it up with just 2015 stuff, like what happens after. But they've said that this is going to be the last season. I think the showrunners said that. Oh. And it would be perfect.

Because they're graduating the older ones. Yeah. And I didn't go to a real college. So I don't know how the dynamics work, but the school does seem very similar to the school that you went to. Would three freshmen and three juniors at the time have become a girl gang? They only hang out with each other, the six of them, and they're different ages.

Well, in the beginning, they're all dating each other. And at some point, one is always dating another. It seems like the girls only go to frat parties at their house, which is possible. But yes, there are other people at the school.

Seek other friendships.

They keep coming back to the three and the three. But I guess someone is always dating someone in that group. So you are going to always go where your friend's boyfriend is, and that's how you're going to start your night. Okay. So it's not impossible, but there are other people. It's a huge school, it seems. It's not huge, but there's definitely other fraternities, other parties that the girls could go to that the boys can't go to.

Other human beings to interact with.

But Lucy does always find someone.

The worst person, yes.

But was Leo bad?

No, he was sweet. He wasn't bad enough for Lucy.

He wasn't bad enough for her. Yeah.

Well, that's your Tommy Lies recap. And we are going to turn you over to our guest interview with Chris Appleton, who we were just truly humbled to be in the presence So thank you guys for watching today's episode. I hope you enjoy this fabulous interview that is brought to you by Bearbells, The Protein Bar, the only protein bar that I really feel like eating because it's delicious, it's packed with protein. And as you guys know, I'm on my health journey. So are you like one of the many Americans who are making Get More Protein as their New Year's resolution? Well, if you are, you need Bearbells, the protein bar that puts taste first while still bringing you 15 to 20 grams of protein in every single bar. When I first tried one, I could not believe that it was a good protein-packed, good calorie, because when I was I got on my first semi-glutaide journey. Everybody was like, You need to keep up with your protein in order to stay full. And I don't historically like protein bars. I've never been one to reach for a protein bar. And everybody was like, Try Bearbells. They're Nlop, not like other protein.

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Enjoy. Welcome back to The Toast. Today's guest is years in the making here at The Toast. We have Chris Appleton, hair stylist, author, and second-time Toast guest. Chris, welcome to The Toast. I'm back.

Not only are you back, I'm so excited. If you were to say, Claudia, you could have anyone in the world cut your hair. Who would you want to cut your hair? It's celebrity stylist Chris Appleton. Every time I go get my hair cut, I have an inspo pick from celebrity hair stylist Chris Appleton. He's here talking about his book, and we said, Well, how can we make this a little bit more Jackson-Claude-coated? I said, I'm going to use my platform, and I'm getting a haircut, a free haircut from Chris Appleton.

A live haircut. Oh, live.

Yes. This whole thing's happening live. Chris is going to-In real time.

I have no idea. We've not spoke.

Okay, so I have inspiration pictures. We're going to talk to you about your book. You told us you're selling your business. We have a lot to catch up with you on, and we're also really excited to redeem ourselves. Yeah, we need to write some wrongs from the last time.

I don't know if you know, the last time you were on the toast haunt us because we dress up for our show. Oh my God.

This is so rude. That's okay. It's probably me. I was like, Who is that? I'm like, Oh, it's me.

We always do our hair, makeup for the show. The best way that we can. The one time that you came on our show, we were headed to the airport right after. And so we wore airport looks. And we felt like such disheveled clouds when you came on the show. And we always say, we can't ever look like that because of Chris Appleton, the time that Chris Appleton came on the toes. It's like the Chris Appleton theme. We were slabs when Chris Appleton came on the toes. So when we saw that you're doing press for your book, we were so excited to have you come on the toes so we could redeem ourselves, show you that we are not slab-like women. And Claudia could get the haircut of her dreams, which is very much in theme with your new book. It is part self-help, part memoirs, Your Roots Don't Define You by Chris Appleton. We love a celebrity memoir here at The Toast. We're going to talk to you all about your book and also like art imitating life. Do a haircut, have a therapy session with Chris Appleton.

It's like you're actually in my chair. We always talk about being in my chair. Everyone keeps saying, what is it about sitting in a stylist chair and you become a therapist? Maybe not be. I think you should break the career.

I'm trying to get Tata to open up.

I am an onion. I have lots of layers. And just, what do you want to know, Chris?

What do you want to know? I'm going to open you up.

Well, Chris. Oh, okay. Do it, Chris. Sounds awful. I just want you to know, so much of being a girl, of girlhood is getting your hair cut and crying afterwards. Totally.

I feel like-Do you know that as a hair stylist?

You look beautiful, of course.

You know that everybody cries. Of course. Why do you, when you're a stylist, sometimes not listen when you say, I only want to cut one inch and they cut four?

I think it's because I honestly don't know why they do that.

Maybe they know better. Maybe you have four inches of dead.

Yeah, Or they'll be like, you're like one size longer. They're like, no, what it is is your head actually goes to the side slightly. If you actually just walk around like this, that's better. You look perfect. Or the color is not direct. Well, if you turn the lights off, it's better. Perfect color. It's like, so we don't have lights. I don't know. It's just sometimes a thing of like, I think it's just covering the tracks.

Right, right, right. Well, I feel very confident. I'm going to show you some inspo pics.

Let's see. First of all, you have great hair.

Thank you so much. The inspo picture is you. That's gorgeous. I have recently... My hair grows really fast. Show us. Okay, so it's this beautiful... Who's this? A model?

She was my friend actually. We did it during COVID. Was? During the COVID. Oh, no, she's still my friend. She's going to be like, Yeah, exactly. No, she is my friend, and we shot it during COVID. Okay, it's gorgeous. It was like, you know, the time of change. In fact, everything changed during COVID.

Oh, really? Was that a big time for you?

Well, especially business-wise, because it nearly went wrong and it went really right.

Why I like this? I'll explain. I love big, bouncy layers. I love face framing. I'm on a weight loss journey, so I my framed face, layers to make it look skinnier, if that makes sense. I like my length, and I don't think I have a lot of dead, so I'm not looking to change the length so much more so. No, the length is beautiful. He did more bounce and movement.

Who is your hair icon?

Well, I don't have so much hair icons because celebrities change their hair so much. I have looks that are in the Hall of Fame for me. Jlo at the Super Bowl, which I know was you.

Oh, okay. You want to walk around with that every day.

Kim's really dark chocolate, piecey layers, long hair. Yeah, that's cute. Love that. I have the same Very Victoria's Secret, Chelsea blowout.

Bum shell.

What don't you look? I mean, obviously, you really like the length of the minute. So maybe I'm interpreting that you don't necessarily love how heavy it is.

Yes. So my hair grows really fast. These pieces at one point were much shorter. And I just like when there's more movement.

Yeah, more of that. Because if you look at your face shape, you've got a beautiful face shape. You've got an oval face shape. Oh, my God.

So you think I'm skinny. Okay.

Yeah. I love that. I love that. Was it different before?

Yes, it was It's a little bit more round.

Okay, so that was gone into oval.

Yeah, of course.

But because your hair is so heavy, what can happen sometimes is it can start to wear you. You know what I mean? The hair should have that sexy movement and should move as you walk, whereas at the minute, it's quite heavy. If you move it, the whole thing moves. So it'd be I guess if it had a little bit more of a bababoo and sexy vibe. I think it'd be really nice to open up your cheekbones a little bit. Would you be open to taking this shorter?

Yes. Yes, yes. But how much shorter?

I'm going to say yes to everything for her. I think yes. You have to trust.

Am I getting a crazy haircut?

Chef, Chef's choice. Chef's choice, give her a box.

Chef's choice, yeah.

I will say this is how a lot of viewers watching me who we relate to because a lot of girls have this hair. I'll be honest with you, it's beautiful, but it's almost a bit like when you're at school and you're a kid and you just have- Middle school hair.

That's what we call it.

Oh, my God. It goes there a little bit. No, you did not just have me.

I'm saying it'll score. It goes there a little bit just because you're a sexy lady. Thank you so much. I think you're into that now. It'd be nice to feel that when you run your fingers through your hair, it's got that movement. I agree. It's not just hanging.

It is just hanging.

But that doesn't mean you have to cut all your hair off. I think we open up the cheekbones a little bit here. I think the shortest part should be around here.

That's by my eyes.

I know. I think it would be good. But it's going to be very face-to-face. You're not even going to have a big old bang.

It's a once-in-a-lifetime haircut.

It is a It's in a lifetime haircut.

We're going to basically lighten up through here with layers and giving it shade. But you have this really beautiful wave. I want it to be able to air dry naturally as well. So we have to do it. But if you do, you have that bombshell Pamela Anderson '90s sexy Okay, we're just doing it?

We're doing it. Let it rip.

I really love the length. I think it's great. But I'll be honest with you, the length is literally like one length. So this is going to be-It's one length, yeah.

And that's not what I want.

Not what you want. This is just going to be a U. 20. You know what I mean? We're just thinking it's the next level. Change isn't always about cutting your hair off. It's just finding out who you are. You say you want to feel a little bit sexy or not.

Yeah, and a little bit more mature. I'm a mother now.

I don't know if that mature. I don't mean mature.

I agree.

I think if anything a more youthful and sexy. How old are you?

I just feel like that's not important. I think. I'm 13.

Thirteen. So at 13 years old, I think we should get a haircut that compliments that.

I'm going to start. Okay. We're going to talk to you. You were telling us because we are huge color-out fans.

We should wear a cape on. Oh, a cape?

Yeah, of course. Cape, so you have a hair.

It is jump-up. It's so professional. It's true. You might have to move your microphone, Claudia. I'm going to wear a cape. Oh, I'm sorry, everyone. It's okay. We're not cutting corners. Claudia is very precious about her hair type.

Extremely Extremely precious about my hair.

Good. As you should be, as everyone is. It's a big part of who you look. Also, your hair is a really great feature. You know what I mean?

Yes, I've always really identified. You've got great hair. Sometimes people have hair and it's just an accessory.

Yeah, and they change it every week.

It means nothing to them. My hair means everything.

It's your identity.

It is my security blanket. It's my identity.

I can't even do this, how does this thing work? Step one, out to put on a gown.

I just feel like you've evolved from that.

Step two, cut the hair. Yeah, I'm so over putting gowns on When was the last time?

I guess you cut your client's hair a lot when you do celebrity glam. Are they are celebrities more care free about cutting their hair? Like, they're like, sure.

Because they could always get a wig if they don't like it.

When I cut Kim's hair off into a bob. She freaks. Oh, it's like a big You're being right. You're cutting away. Like, hair can mean so much, and it can have such a feeling. It can make you feel sexy. It can make you feel glamorous. Short hair feels very different. It doesn't move the same. It changes the way you walk. It changes everything. It changes the way your makeup reads. It also changes. It can make you look more sophisticated. It can make you look younger and sexy. It just depends on, I think, how you feel good, what you feel good with, and what you go to it. So no, everyone has that.

When do you think a person is a good candidate for getting a bob or a short haircut?

Well, there is the breakup haircut, which I talk about in the book, and it's a really interesting time where people really want to change their hair and just cut everything off and do something completely different.

Do you think that's a good idea?

I think sometimes it's a scary idea, only because it's that time you want that instant change and you just don't want to see that reflection. A lot of the time, you don't want to see the pain that you're in. You want to-Distraction. I want to pull it out of it. Do you know what I mean? What book can I read? Who can I talk to? What podcast can I listen to to get over this heartbreak? Listen to The Toast. Listen to The Toast, exactly. But sometimes I think it's about trying to escape. So I feel like break-up hack-ups are always a little bit scary. But I think a bob hack-up is really beautiful. I love it. I love a bob. It's just a commitment. If you're going to do a bob, it's a commitment.

I don't want a bob. Do not even think about it.

Do you honestly think with your texture- It would be bad, right?

Not a good candidate. Itit would be.

Oh, okay, good. It just wouldn't suit your hat. I mean, it would be big. You'd have to really style it. It would be big. It would just not work. It would just ruin your… It didn't change your texture. Oh, man.

This is the craziest thing I've ever done.

Wait, we like to do crazy stuff on the show.

You really put us on to ColorWOW. When you came on the toast in 2019, the pop and lock shellac, we literally have it here. We use it every day.

We use it every day.

Then it's like a gateway drug to the other products. You were telling us before-Wait, do you know what we should do so it's less boring, so people can actually see it?

Yeah. I dry your hair.

Oh, sure.

Dry it after?

I think we should dry it now. I'm going to cut it dry so people can actually see it. You can see. Because also the texture of your hair, you're not really going to get... It's going to color boring and dark. This blends into this. Let me dry it.

Can we do it quick or do we pull? Chris is going to dry my hair, and then we're going to cut it so everyone can really see the drama.

I want to see the transformation. The big reveal. So when I'm going to cut your hair, we're going to contour it. So now you contour your face with makeup, right? So contour, what you got? You got blush. What else on there? Everything. But you layer and shape your face. We know that you can do that with makeup now, right? Mm-hmm. Make me look chiseled, contour, shape me. You can also do that with hair. So you got your standard layered haircut. But when you contour, you really like shaping the hair according to the hair texture, the hair density, and also the face shape. It's working on more of a haircutting technique, which is contouring. Okay. The new haircut of haircuts. I love that. We're going to contour your hair, but that's why we're going to do it dry. Okay.

Guys, we'll be right back. We're going to blow dry my hair. A quick commercial break. Quick commercial break, and we'll see you in a minute.

Okay, we are back. Chris has blow dry Claudia's hair. It actually looks really beautiful, and it's going to be-She has so much hair.

The fact that I got my hair-So all I did is made it dry.

So now we're going to start with the sheep in.

I want to ask you questions, but I'm so... You don't want to get to focus. They're just so important to me.

He's used to talking while he weren't. Yeah, it's true. All right, let's go.

You ready? Do most celebrities want to chit chat or they just want to sit inside?

There's always stuff They're on the phone. It's always life happening. This is the craziest thing. As is today. So, yeah, you're in the chair today. This is it. This is happening. This is the same stuff. You're doing a podcast, which is great.

You're going to be great, Claudia. Don't look at yourself. Trust the process. Let's focus on Chris and his book. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. It really is.

Wait, when I came in 10 years ago, did you think I was going to have a book out?

No, when you came in 10 years ago, you were still... Six years ago. You were still very much an iconic because you've always had probably the most A-list clients. But you've really evolved into much more of a media empire now. You were saying before you were referencing Colorwell off camera and you said, We are doing XYZ. I did not know that you were involved. I thought you were maybe an ambassador.

A brand ambassador.

No, I was a big part of it. Really? Yeah. I mean, 10 years ago when I met Gail, Colorwell just had the shampoo condition. They had some products, and they had the root powder, which people knew of, but we just connected. And honestly, we've had the best relationship. It was all a little crazy. It was very personal. It was a lot of family that's involved. We're We all a little off the wall with our ideas, but I think fundamentally, we all really cared about creating a great product for the people that needed haircare solutions. I was saying to you during COVID, it was a really interesting time because it was a time where we thought we had it all sorted, knowing what worked and the mess it. Then COVID happened and everything changed, and we were like, What happens now? But then we changed towards social media and we took that on. That was such a big way of connecting to people, and it grew the brand so much more. That's the power of TikTok.

No, by the way, I feel like myself included. Everyone knows about Colorwell because of you. There are a couple of products that went super viral. You use the dream code on me, which is I use it every day. It's the best thing to use before you.

Before you block heat.

The hairspray, the shampoo and conditioner.

The Shampoing Conditioner. Yeah. The Dream Co, that's the hero product. It takes away the frizz, gives it that mirror-like shine. Honestly, it's just a great product which helps a lot of people. I think that's what it's simply about. I think that's the The reason I brought out the book, the book isn't a memoir, by the way. It's part memoir, but it's more self-help because I think a lot of people just need... Even you sitting in the chair, there's an uncomfortableness to change. There's an uncomfortableness to... I feel like she's close to panicking. She sees all the chairs on.

I'm feeling very calm.

You're in the best stance.

Given what's going on right now, and this might be the craziest thing I've ever done, I feel extremely calm. You have a warm presence about you. You're also a parent. I feel like a lot of people, every time you post your kids, are shocked to find out that you have two pretty grown kids. How old are your kids?

My kids are 21 and 23.

How old are you? You look like 17.

I'm 42.

Wow, you look amazing.

I was 19 when I had kids. Yeah, I had a very different life before I came out.

Right. You talk about all that in the book.

Yeah. I mean, do you know what? To be honest I have you, I actually had a cancer scare. I spoke about it for the first time this week because I just didn't really want to go out there and necessarily talk about it. But there was a very different book written where it was more surface level and maybe what people know about me. I work with celebrities. When we post the best parts of myself, look, we're all guilty of being controlled with what we post. We're all scared. Do you ever post and think, what is this person thinking? What is that person thinking? Let's face it, they've already made their mind up, and you're probably on mute. You know what I mean? If someone doesn't really like, you're probably already on mute. I try and be more authentic with my posting and try and be more authentic. I really want to be more authentic with my story because with this cancer scare, I actually had to go under and have an operation. Oh, wow. My daughter was with me. It was very scary because it was a supposyial cancer. My mom had that, and it was very nearly the end journey.

Obviously, Kim's dad had it. He died very fast of it. I know a lot of my I have friends that have died at 30, 40. It's very aggressive. When I was not getting reassured by the doctor and I had to go under, I was like, Is this my time? I've had a lot of stress in my life. I had a lot of trauma. I remember thinking, Have I written what I should write? Like, I used my voice, or I just done another edited version? I knew I had. I'd done an edited version because it was safer. I decided to write this and just be more vulnerable and more real because I guess I just wanted to own my voice before my possibility of not I've been there. So, yeah, it was hard to go into my darkest moments, but hopefully that'll help other people. Because at the end of the day, we all have them, right? We all have those moments where we feel lost or unsure or question, is this it? Is this who I am? Is this where I'm going to be? I'll tell you something no one knows, though. A big result of the cancer scare I found out was I went through a stage of trying Monjaro in a GLP-1.

Oh, girls, I know Mounjaro. We're best friends.

That's what you're doing now?

I'm technically on Zipound, but they're all the same.

Why did you... Tell me, I don't know your journey.

Always struggled. Right now, I had a baby eight months ago. It's actually eight months today. Happy month. Thank you. Happy eight-month birthday. For me, bouncing back is really just about wanting to have more kids, and I don't want to even attempt to do it myself. I've always struggled doing it myself. With weight, yeah. Yeah, and I love these. I think these medicines are magic. I'm a huge fan of them. Why did you take it?

I think I've always been very conscious of what I eat. I work out seven days a week, six days, I don't know, depending on what, but I like to go mentally because it makes me feel great. But I think also physically, I I want to feel good. When you're standing in front of people, I want to feel... I don't want to be standing there feeling not healthy. What example am I? I did it just because when I got to in my forties, it was so much harder to lose one pound. I go to the gym for an hour. I spend half an hour on the treadmill. But then with my life and schedule and stuff, and I wanted to lose six pounds, and I thought, Why not? I'll just try it. I was interested to see what it was all about, how it worked, and I've got a huge appetite. I could be a really big guy if I wanted to. But I think for me, I was struggling with lifestyle, work, traveling. What I really noticed, what was amazing is it took away the noise of food.

Yeah, that's the magic.

Listen, I took the lowest dose. I still had my breakfast, I had a lunch, I had my dinner, and I was very conscious of doing protein shakes in between. I wanted to make sure... My goal wasn't to be super skinny, but it was just to keep me from eating crap all the time, getting unhealthy, which has an negative effect on the gym. It was just about balance. But I only tried it for a short period of time, but that actually gave me the acid reflux.

Oh, yeah, that's surreal.

That got me really bad.

Like waking you up in the night.

Yeah, so this thing that they thought was possibly a suffering to your cancer was cysts. I had cyst. Now, that wasn't caused from the Monjano. I think it was caused from lifestyle stress. I also was taking a medication called doxycycline for my skin. I get folliculitis from the hair on my face. I didn't realize. I used to take it in bed at night and I'd go sleep. If Apparently, it's the worst medication you can take because you lay there and it sits and it can eat away and it causes this acid. So effectively, that combined, that's one of the reasons I got this cyst. So I stopped doing it. I only did it for maybe a month, but I see the benefit. Yeah, of course. I see the benefit for some. Kate, the mother of my kids, we're still best friends now. She struggled with her weight her whole life. She has done every diet from eating soups for six months. She lost the weight, she looked great, always put it back on. Because when life got involved, she couldn't maintain the amount of commitment she had to give to losing weight. When she tried it, the difference and how it changed her life, I think was amazing.

I see the... It seemed to lift her whole aura of this pressure she always felt. I write about your roots don't define you. Well, a lot of time it does. I'm like, these lives we feel trapped in. I think it gives people a freedom to be able to see a new version.

And focus on other things.

I am a fine believer. If you're going to do it, you still need to eat healthy. It's not about... Some people just do it and they don't eat.

And they don't change anything.

I'm like, Guys, you got to eat protein. You got to make sure you're taking your vitamins. Like, hair loss is a big thing, I will say. With GLP-1, I mean, obviously not on you, babe.

No, but with weight loss in general. It's such a...

People always lose hair. When they lose weight, the hair, I think it's just like lack of nutrients, shock to the body. Those things always changes. I'm always saying, make sure you take your hair supplements. You got to be really, I think, aware of what you're doing. I I still think it's good to go to the gym and use it as motivation. A lot of people when they're overweight, their knee hurts because they're overweight. Whereas in actual fact, it helps them get to a better place so they can Excel on it. I'm a big fan. I see Oprah going around right now. She struggled with her weight her whole life. I think it's so brave to go out because there's so much negativity on it and people are terrified to say... And so many people are on it. But people are... It's so funny. You say, Oh, my God, you look amazing. And let's face it, you know when someone's on it because it's completely different. You know what this is, eh? Yeah. Oh, thank you so much. I What are you doing? And they're like, Intimative past him. I'm like, Okay, girl. That's how you got it all together last minute.

But look, each to their own, I just think there should be more honest conversations about it. I tried it. It didn't work for me in possibly my area of life and health For some reason. Let's be honest, I don't really need it. I just wanted to get to a place that I'd always wanted to get to, physique. I realized it was just a bit too much on my. What do you think to it?

I'm obsessed with it. I have had the most positive experience, I think, for women who-How much weight have you lost? Well, right now, I've had two stints on it. Right now, I just started a month ago. I'm down around 11 pounds. Then before I got pregnant, I had lost 70 pounds on it. Really, a huge success story from it. I'm just a really big fan. I think that so much of the struggle around being a mom is so way related. All the different issues of wanting to lose weight before you get pregnant again, a lot of people being hesitant to get pregnant because or when I was overweight, I did not I want to get pregnant at that weight. I think so many of the stages of womanhood, we can't not talk about them without talking about weight. I think this just really eliminated that.

Did you get flab for it? Were people?

I did it for many months before I shared.

Were you nervous, to be honest about it?

Of course, but also I was nervous to be on a drug. I don't take drugs. No, totally. I'm injecting myself. I didn't want to share it until I knew that I was going to love it and have a good experience. Also, it was just so personal. Weight is so personal for girls. I just didn't want to share. Now in high tech, I do wish I shared a little bit earlier. I shared more towards the end of my journey, but it was a beautiful journey. It was what it was.

It was your first time doing it, too.

Exactly.

It was before. Now, it's ubiquitous. Everyone talks about it. Everyone shares that they're on it, and it's not a big deal. In fact, people are like, Stop talking about it. Would you try it?

Would you do it?

Oh, yes. It's my dream.

What do you mean it's your dream?

I have three kids. I just had a baby two months ago. I do look forward to be on it one day, but I'm breastfeeding, so no can do right now. It came out right when I started having kids, so it was not my time. But I do feel like my time is coming soon, and I'm really excited. I just want to say we're getting close to the front of my hair.

I just think everything is-And I can't wait. But we need to acknowledge. I'm just working on my way for it. I'm being so brave. I'm being so brave. You're doing great, babe. Thank you.

But I promise I'm not going to be happy. You're still going to be happy.

No, I know.

But I'm shaping. Shape away, girl.

Shape away.

I'm bringing sexy back, baby. I already see the contour. Claudia It looks so good.

You're contouring the body. I'm contouring the hair. It's so true.

These bitches aren't ready.

It's a contour summer.

You've got to let Picasso do his work.

That's a nice way of putting it.

Okay, so of all your famous looks throughout history, which do you think is the most impactful on the beauty community? For me, JLo's Super Bowl is up there for sure.

You know that was the worst moment in my career? Why? Because it was the biggest moment in my life, and I really didn't realize it was going to be that big. I saw JLo's performance, and I was like, Wow, she's made it look. If anyone has ever seen JLo perform, she's great. I was like, How do I give her hair worthy of this performance? I also know so many people watch these things for the glam. How do they look? What do they look like? I decided to do... Oh, God, I'll tell you something. I did a hairstyle on her. It was like a rehearsal, but it was filmed. We did this rehearsal, but it was filmed because they were worried it was going to rain on the day in Miami. If it was going to rain, they were going to use this recording. I don't know why, but I I did this thing that sometimes we do where we overthink things. He and I are brides. They always wear their hair down the whole lives. No makeup. They get married, they have blue eye shadow and put their hair on. Why did I do that?

Sometimes we just go too far. I decided to curl her hair, but normally I'd curl her hair, let it drop, brush it out. I decided to curl it on a really tight, curly night.

So that when it felt like it would fall.

I was like, Oh, I really want it to hold. I don't want it to drop. Then I pinned it with pin's calls. Too curly. Which I normally do. Well, you'd think, right? You'd think I'd know by now. They're like, Hey, JLo, we're ready for you. Ready on stage. She's like, Okay, baby. I take the pins out and I just brush her hair out and it's going to be like, gorgeous, right? Nice, bouncy. I take the curves out and they're like, coils. I went to brush it out. I don't know what I did that day, but they just It kept going back into a coil. I started brushing her hair aggressively as I got out to the field. I'm really going for it. She's like, What's going on, baby? She's like, Let me see the meridian. It's like these coils, these coils. She's like, It's curly. I'm like, Yeah, it's going to drop. I did that thing. I used to do when you...

You were like, Turn the light off.

It's the... It's going to drop. She's just like, okay. She does this performance anyway. I just see her spinning her head around on the big stage, and it's just like, boing, like these curves. I'm like, What the hell happened? Anyway, she came off and she's like, How was it? I was like, Oh, my God, it was amazing. In my head, I'm like, It was too fucking curly. I thought, I'm very honest. I was just like, I think your hair was a bit too curly. She's like, It felt curly. Then her manager came in and he was like, Oh, my God, your The hair on that last take was phenomenal. I love the bounceiness of it. I actually developed this new technique where I did this double curl. I decided to curl the hair on the smallest curling iron, and then I went over it with the biggest one that I normally do because you get a real tight curl when you curl it on a small curling iron. But the big curves always drop out. But when you have the base of the smaller curl, the big curl really holds. That was actually how it stayed because I did her hair as- It's like Thomas Edison in the light bulb.

Yeah, it was called the double curl tip. I love that. Basically, she went out there, did a performance, but I went home that I went and cried still.

Yeah, and thank God it did a rain.

No, I went home that night because she had one piece of hair. When she's like, There's one piece of hair went in between her eyelash like that, and it got stuck. I thought, Oh, my God, I've ruined her performance.

I've literally- No, I think that's the eyelash person's fault.

I went and cried. Everyone went out, had a great night, and I was just torturing myself. But I realized now, and that's what I write about a lot in the book, these experiences where now I can be way more realistic myself. I can turn the hater down that we were down to a two, and I can come back to myself. I can actually say to myself, Well, actually, the fact that her hair moved so well added to the performance. If it was really sprayed and stiff, it wouldn't have been as good. But some of the biggest moments in my career, I feel like I failed and let myself down. Rather than celebrating it, I pulled myself apart.

Just watching Kardashian's and you and Kim were joking about the Marilyn hair at the Met.

Oh, do not Why'd you bring that up? That's what you're talking about. We don't talk about it. No. Can we talk about it? Any time Kim brings that up, it'll Chloe or someone will be like, not the Marilyn. No, leave it.

It's so funny because as cultural commentators, we were gooped and gagged when we saw.

She will still send me edited versions of like, Wait, what about this Jackie O. Hey, we should have done the big AI version.

Oh my God, that's so funny. Chatgpt.

I stand by the one because the idea was she didn't want to do a Marilyn copy. We were so worried about it.

Like a modern take on Maryland.

You know those people at Hollywood studios where they have the Marilyn. We were like, do the wig. But I think when you just bleach your hair and you've got no roux, it's very... I don't know. I still stand by. I thought it was cool.

But I think- You guys are so I'm still debating it.

That's so funny.

Wait, what were you going to say anyway?

No, I was going to say, what would you have done differently? If you did that hair, that outfit again, what would you have done? What do you think is the right thing?

Just leave it in the moment.

I think it was great. Yeah, it was amazing. Loved it.

I mean, look. We're going. I'm not going to have an opinion on it. I think I stand by it, but I think it could have been fun.

I'm not going to show everyone my hair. I'm not going to show everyone my hair.

I'll be best one a little bit.

He's making gains, by the way.

The thing is, I'm feeling so good about this. Yeah, it's good. That's the way you should be. Yeah, I have Chris Appleton doing my hair.

How many people can say that? Is that cool? Exactly. I'm just going with what you're saying.

You just don't give me like, fringe bags, okay?

No, it looks so... Oh, I love that piece.

Open your face.

I love that. Oh, look at that.

Where are you opening your hair?

Wow, we're watching it transform.

I'm confused because the monitor is the other side. This, okay.

Yeah, no, we can see the transformation.

Is there a celebrity who's here, you've done who was so unpleasant to work with that you never wanted to work with them again?

I see that all the day. People keep going on about like, why do people love to Gossip like that? No, they're always looking for the bad-Oh, when you say people, you're talking about me.

Okay.

No, I think he's talking about the hair stylist who said that.

People talking about the glam bar.

Oh, yes.

I'm like, I don't know. It's just like, Jello...

She's working.

It was like, she left so much earlier. I think there was so much traffic to get there. We were like, Why is she not on the coffee? Why is she not on the coffee? So you get there, it's so cannot take in these situations and you're moving on and your PR person is just passing you from place to place and you go and you say hi, but you got to hear everything they're saying. She had a... I just don't think it's-We talked I love to see that.

Yeah, and expose people.

We talked about that the other day because I thought that that video went so viral for no reason.

People just love to get out. I have to say, I work with her for a long time, and I think she's an amazing person. She's always been incredibly generous and kind. I think anything can be taken out of context. I think people sometimes look in. I think now they've started on the Glenbot guy because that's what we've been saying. We've been on it. Essentially, there's someone posting their emails.

I'm like, Yeah. The Glenbot guy is getting canceled.

I know, poor guy.

I wonder who would do I'm not.

Oh, was it you guys? No, no, no. We just reported on it, and I thought maybe his time was coming because I feel like sometimes he sets up celebrities. Do you feel that? Even the JLo video, you feel like he knew what he was doing when he posted that?

Oh, he posted it?

Yeah, it felt nefarious to me. I think a lot of times he filmed celebrities without their consent. And not all the time is a celebrity to be like, Hi, oh, my God, how are you? Sometimes you're at a work thing and you're just quiet.

For me now, for anyone that's watching and anyone that wanted to drag JLo during that moment, Redcock is already saying it. It's not a natural thing to have so many people screaming your name. There's so many different people you're saying hello to. It's really overwhelming. So I'd like to see... You know what I mean? You're not even like, hugging everyone. You're also like, it is a bit of a pantomime. You're there to take your picture. You spend hours getting ready. You're looking your best picture. You move on. I got quite nerve-wracking as well, no matter how long you've done it.

Yeah, it's an art form.

So I actually am fully defensive of Jello, and I think she's a great... I think she's a very kind person, and I think everything can be perceived in different ways, especially on a 10 I can...

Yeah, video.

But that's the world we live in. You got to be able to take it, get it to take.

What stage of the haircut do you think you're in right now?

I'm just going to go from refining it. You have a lot of weight in one area of your hair.

I also have a cowlick. How do you get rid of a cowlick? You can't. Cut it off?

Wait, how? It's almost like...

Oh, you just work with it.

Just work around it. That's what I mean about contrary. I'm actually looking at your hair now.

Do you see the cowlick?

I'm actually going to start to create some shorter pieces.

A within. Chunk.

Out of the back. You got a big chunk. You got a wedge on the back.

Okay. Not big.

It's like a lot of... Sometimes, obviously, you can see if your hair is not spread. Sometimes it's thinner hair and you have a big...

Oh, that's interesting.

So it's like Balancing proportion. It's not like business in the front and a party in the back. That whole thing starts to have one flow. But we can start to...

It already feels lighter.

But you still have hair.

Yes, so long.

There's loads of hair on the floor.

Oh, my God. Oh, is there? I can't look. I can't look. I can't look.

I can't look. I can't look. I can't look. But your hair is still long.

Oh, my God.

You guys have long hair.

I'm fucking dying. And we're doing more. We have to collect it all and then make a merkin or something.

And put it on the shelf.

Yes, of course. Here lies Turnie's mop. Let's get an acrylic box. We'll make a merkin. Yeah, that's what I said.

You've never had a crazy haircut where you hate it.

No, I always do the same. Every time I go get my hair cut, I do a little trim, we cut off the dead, and then lots of layers, lots movement, face framing.

Can I ask you the other? Can you be honest with me? I want you to do the same. I write a chapter in my book about the hater inside your head.

Yeah, nobody hates me more than me.

Okay, well, this is precisely my point. So there's a part where I talk about people looking in the mirror. And it's like, when you look in the mirror, are you truly alive? What you see in your outside image with how you truly feel on the inside, the way you want to get in your life. Because a lot of people say, I don't care about the way I look, I don't care about my hair, but you're also saying something. So when someone sits in the stylist's chair, it's a real moment of vulnerability because you look in the mirror and you can't look... You look and then we just stare at them.

It's so true. I cannot stop staring at myself.

Okay, so most people have this hate me inside their head where they start tearing themselves apart. Do you know the amount of women that do this?

Yeah. I'm always like this.

And they're like, do you think it's... Because it's a lot too bad in here? Because I've got this big dot. My boot, one boot bigger than me. They're like, is this arm swips you? If you just start carrying yourself apart. The voice inside your head is like, blah. Yes. And we talk about that in the book and her basically stories from your past and something someone probably once said to you. Someone probably once said that you're the shy one. Your sister's the confident one. Or you need banks because you have a big forehead. You carry these things. So I know we talk to people, I talk about it. It's cute. They'd be like, Well, I know I can't do that. I'd be like, Why is that? And they're like, Well, because I just... I can't. I don't know. And they carry these preconceived ideas of who they are from something someone once said, and they carry it off the whole life. So when you look at them, what do you see? What does the hater say?

Oh, what does the hater say? Well, the thing is, I feel like I am my biggest hater, but no one's more delusional about how amazing, gorgeous, perfect I am. I really teeter between... I It's teeter between being delusionally self-confident while also being so hard on myself. I feel like it really just depends on the day. Okay. On a bad day, what is it? On a bad day, it's the worst things I think about myself, visually or internally. Oh, always wait. Wait. Actually, that's it. I have amazing skin and amazing hair. It's weight for me always.

The face and features.

Yeah, and so smart and amazing and intelligent. It's always the weight. It's always the weight.

You probably carried that with you.

My whole life, yes.

But you can start to change that voice inside your head.

Yes. It was a resolution of mine many years ago to stop the negative self-talk.

No one can speak worse to yourself than yourself. It's so true. You know what I mean? I realized that, especially when I came out, I realized I made a career out of making people look in the mirror and see themselves and really be the best versions of themselves. But I never actually looked at myself because it's really scary to do. It's like the hardest work you can do is to stop and take the wrong look.

Yeah.

Wait, what's yours?

Wait. These days, there's So there's so much to do about it.

That's the other part.

Like being hungry and breastfeeding and getting pregnant. You're so hungry, you can't diet, can't take drugs.

Okay, so when you had your kids, you were living where?

This is looking now like... Stop. Where was I, Linnan? Oh, in Leicester. In a small town. Leicester? Middle Linnan. Leicester.

Leicester.

It's spelled like Leicester, right? Yeah. L-e-i-c-d-e-s-t-e-r. Oh, hi.

That's what you're calling it.

Yeah, no, I'm completely fine. You don't have to worry about me.

I've been in the back for too long. You're like, Is it there?

Is it gone? You said you have a very good relationship with your ex-wife mother. Yeah. So did you come out after you were divorced or that was the reason you got divorced?

Our relationship broke down. We've been together since I was I was 37. Our relationship broke down. I think we were still really close, but I don't know, sometimes things just for whatever reason. But we still had this friendship. I will say during my darkest time, She was the one that really reminded me who I was. I would say it's definitely an unconditional type of love we have because even to this day, we still talk all the time. We spend the year's Eve and Christmas together with a kid.

That's so nice.

It was rare, but I also believe that's real love because even in my darkest moments, The night I tried to end my life was the night I had to tell my kids. I just couldn't bear telling them or causing them pain or grief.

Telling them about the divorce or coming out? Yeah. Got it.

And she was the one that really helped me see myself before I could see myself.

Oh, wow. She sounds amazing. And what does she make of you now, in your success?

I guess it was really interesting because we spent Christmas together and the fireworks were going off on New Year's Eve. And there's a video where I put my arm around her and I just, I don't know, I was just taking it in. And she's like, wow, you actually really did it, Chris. She's like, I knew you always would. I believed in you when you didn't believe in yourself. But she's like, You actually did it. I set off to America with a dream and I guess, so That's really sweet. But it would have been very different if it didn't have the people around me. There was one moment in my career where it probably would have been a very different story. I was doing Christina over there on The Voice, and basically, we had three hours for glam. I ended up having 20 minutes. I walked in, I'd never worked with her before. I was terrified. I said to her, What do you want to do? She was like, I don't know. What do you want to do? I said, I thought I'll put a wig on. That'll be quick. It's only 20 minutes. I had these hair pieces and she was like, I don't like wigs.

I was like, Oh, cool. Why would you like anything I've got to do? I'm like, Why would you even... I had that complete imposture syndrome. I was like, She's crazy. Then I literally felt like I was paralyzed. I started to do this thing that hairdresses do. This is a maybe trigger again to some people.

Are you going to keep touching? Why do hairstyles do that?

It's triggering. When they finish your hair, they just keep...

Basically, you don't know what you're doing. That's great. Headresses may come for me, but when I'm doing this, I'm like, Please Something happened. Someone say something, something for, something. I've got to call it...

Oh, my God. It's touching.

Let's avoid what's happening. Basically, I had that. Then I remember Kate's voice. She said to me on the way in the car, she was like, If you don't make this work, she's going to have to come home. Because I had two kids to provide. I didn't have the luxury. We were poor as fuck. They didn't have the luxury of like...

Just being single.

Yeah, living my gay life. I had to provide to the kids. We always had that commitment. I remember her voice, and I came back to her stuff, and I was like, I didn't come in this far from this far. I know what I'm doing. I had these wigs. I said, Let's just try this hairpiece. So I got one out of the bag and I put it on her head and she was like, Oh, so awkward. And she was like, Oh, I like it. And it was 10 minutes. I put it on her head. She ran off and went on the voice. I remember she came off and she was talking to the contest since she looked over at me and she's like, Everyone likes your wig. And then started talking. And in that moment, I knew. But I tell you now, I swear to you, if I hadn't, I've took that leap of faith and come back to myself. And maybe Kate believing in me even when I didn't, I wouldn't be here now. I I've written a book for sure. I wouldn't have done any of the celebrities. I would still be in Leicester probably believe in a version of myself I was told as a kid.

I think a lot of people have that. A lot of people believe the things they've always just been told because it's scary to do anything else. Actually, I had someone that saw me when I didn't. But now I've learned to do that to myself because then you get into bad relationships, you get into bad friendships, you make bad financial decisions. It makes everything in your life.

Can we talk about the Kardashian's? You're like, go-to for all the girls. Yeah, go-to. You have to go. Oh, we're out of time.

We're out of time.

No. Yeah, because we're running late.

We have to do your hair.

Okay, well- Stand up.

Okay, we're finishing up Claudia's hair. We will post the final photos. I'm so excited to see on Instagram. Chris Appleton, thank you so much for coming to The Toast, our redemption episode. Live haircut, never been done before. Nobody could do it like The to redeem him.

No, that's not true. I'll send you a picture.

We're probably so fabulous. I can't with us.

We're not. Guys, are you excited to see this in hair?

I'm happy of your roots done to find you for some more Chris in your life and some more positive self-talk. We appreciate your time and we will see you tomorrow. Love you with new hair. Love you. Bye. But what I wanted to say, my daughter is fighting the Studium. Semester-bedrag, Laptop, Books, Software, Handys, Internet. A Master is really expensive. Tell her, she can get it back. You mean, from a tax-off? But she doesn't earn it. No, it's a magic word, Loss-Bedrag. She just makes it with Visa Steuer. And when she then works, it means, Kaching. That's possible?

Safe. Visa Steuer.

Get your money back. Now, try it.