Transcript of "Sting" New

Hi, this is Sting, and I'm waiting to be the surprise guest on Smartless. I'm not quite sure what that means, smartless, but we're gonna find out. They're gonna talk to me for an hour, so hopefully I can be smartless with them. Welcome to Smartless. Smartless. Smartless. Smart.

Oh, Will. Will, you've been, uh, are you— did you sleep over at Theroux last night?

I just realized I had an overshirt in the other room and I just came— I was working out and I was like, if I— I was like, I took a long sleeve shirt out just to put it on and I was like, oh shit, it's 9:30, and I took a leak and I got my water and I got in here. I was like, As I logged in, as my Zoom came up, I went, motherfucker, I'm not wearing—

you're not wearing sleeves. And, uh, so Justin Throw is just— he's just waking up.

Um, Justin Throw, he's not— he's not allowed to wear a Liverpool Football Club cutoff.

He just had a baby.

He did.

I did.

He just had— oh my God, I saw, uh, I saw, uh, a shot of, of him, um, sleeping with his new baby on his chest. Uh, but he wasn't at home sleeping. I guess he was in the hospital or something. But, um, true to form, his top's off.

I know what you're gonna say.

Yeah, his top's off.

He might have been on an airplane.

Yeah, he can't—

he likes to— he likes to— he, he'll fly without a t-shirt. He'll fly without a shirt on when he— right?

Yeah, you know this, Sean, right? When he flies, you know, he's on a plane, um, he can't—

almost said commercial. He can't even say the word. Oh my God, it won't even come out.

Justin can't sleep with a shirt on. And so if he's going to sleep on a plane, if it's a night flight, he takes his top off and the flight attendant's got to wake him up and say, sir, you can't sleep.

I didn't know that.

You can't have your shirt off on a plane. He says, well, I can't sleep with a shirt on.

Although I do remember, do you remember years ago, you, me, Tony Hale, Eli, and somebody else, maybe Carr or somebody from your team, we flew back from London. And we threw fingers for the thing that folded into the bed.

Yeah.

And then I didn't have a shirt on. I remember your disgust. That's disgusting. You're like, you're not wearing your shirt.

You know what I do now?

You know what I do when I'm in public?

When I go to sleep, I stick my shirt into my pants like that. I stick my shirt so that when I roll around at night, the shirt doesn't come up.

Why don't you get one of those little onesies?

Hey, listen, to our listener, anybody out there who's just looking for something, who's lonely and looking looking for some hot dude. It's just some hot stuff going on.

You don't want to tuck that shirt into your CPAP hose, Sean.

You should just— you should do it. Just do a sidecast where you describe some of your routines for Sean after dark, you know.

Don't threaten me.

Sean sent us a picture last night to JB and me after— remember, after, after the show. And again, it was the star of— the star of the photo again was a heaping plate of spaghetti. And, and then, and then, uh, the supporting cast was on on the same plate. Swedish fish.

Yeah, absolutely.

Big fat bag of them.

And he's having more now.

Sprinkle the fish on the pasta.

Yeah, you suggested you mix it in, but there was no like haha or anything. Jason just wrote, put the fish in the spaghetti.

And you thought it was a good idea?

I did think it was a good idea. It was great.

You know what, you know what I did last week? What I do is every single day I wear my slippers to the theater because I know right away I'm just coming home, going right to bed.

Hold on. Yeah, so on You're shuffling down some New York street in slippers, just blending in.

Well, I get out of the car straight to the stage door. But the other day, the traffic was so bad, I had to get out and run. So I'm running down the street with my hair, like, still wet from the shower, in slippers, with, like, a ratty t-shirt. I looked— I looked like a—

Like a New York resident.

I'm sorry, so real quick, how do you think you look now?

Wait, how come you're wearing slippers out of the car and into the theater?

Oh, this is way to go.

Way to go, Jon.

Do you not like shoes?

No, they're too—

it's inconvenient to wear shoes.

Well, I'm not going anywhere after the show. I'm just going home, so I can just keep them on.

And you throw them straight into the incinerator, or—

when I'm done, yeah.

I've gone to dinner with Sean at Jar and I had slippers on, and he shows up and he's wearing slippers. JB, why?

But why are you talking? Just that you don't want to deal with laces and things?

Yeah, yeah, I just want to go to the theater.

Hold it, hold it, hold it. There are a thousand options for men. Velcro, New Balance.

I think you're at that place.

That are laceless, shoes that you can be proud of, that if you do need to run down a street, they will work. Like Vans or loafers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or boots.

I know, I gotta start getting those shoes. Or what shoes?

Boat shoes.

Boat shoes.

Crocs even would be a lesser offense.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Uh, okay, you think about it. You think—

I love my Uggs.

Crocs. Crocs are an interesting—

how—

where do we land on Crocs? Have we been there?

I think the jury's still out. There's a lot of deliberation.

Yeah, it's like jazz. We're still out. Is it cool to like it or cool to not? I'm— I won't take a position on jazz yet.

Yeah, well, you don't want to go down the drain, um, like, uh, like one of our famous actors lately. I mean, and no, I mean, just—

I'm just saying in terms of whether it's for me or not, I'm saying.

Oh yeah, well, you know what, I, I think it is. It's something that I— you know, Ken Burns got me really into baseball because of his documentary on baseball. This is some 30-some years ago. I gotta watch that. And he's got one on jazz that I'm waiting to open up and climb into because I think I'd be addicted to it.

Yeah.

Once I get his—

I'm not calling into question the incredible musicianship or any of that. I mean, in terms of— Yeah, of course.

Wait, you guys, there's a new UFO documentary that just came out.

Really?

You got to see it.

No way. Hang on. I got to take the tinfoil off my TV, but I definitely want to watch it.

If this is not the age of disclosure.

Yeah, no, it's the same. No. No, it's—

Age of disclosure is incredible.

Who's the guy? Yeah, I, I— it's the guy. Shoot, I can't remember his name. I'll find it.

Text it to me when we talk later.

Okay.

Um, now, uh, you guys have talked about a couple of things that our guests can really chime in on and, uh, straighten out for us. One is how to keep the voice, uh, healthy on stage, and the other is jazz.

Wow.

Oh mama. Um, yeah, dudes, um Today, for your listening pleasure, I offer you a man with just a dash of talent and a tiny sprinkle of accomplishments. He's an actor and a musician. He has a Golden Globe, an Emmy, 4 Academy Award nominations. He's received a Kennedy Center Honor and a CBE of the British Empire. As a musician, he's received 17 Grammy Awards. He sold 100 million records. What? And has been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He's been doing what he does in a league of his own and consistently setting the mark for what is relevant and cool since the year I was born. Literally. He's one of my heroes, and I'm incredibly excited to welcome him here today. Fellas, here's the one and only Sting.

Oh, okay.

Oh, wow.

Good morning, gentlemen.

This is a big guy.

So cool.

Wow.

I apologize for the elongated coffee chat up up front. Thank you for staying with us.

It's riveting, I know.

But as you see, this, this is our only time to, uh, really communicate, and so we, we, we, we steal a little bit of time from our guests and we, we chit-chat. But now we've got talking points to talk about. Let's start with the, with, with, with vocal health on stage. Um, are gummy bears and pasta a part of your, um, vocal health at all? Is that, is that your key?

Definitely not. No. You know, it is a muscle. So you have to treat it with the respect you would treat a muscle if you were a footballer or a runner.

And do exercises, yeah.

You have to stretch, you have to sing before you go on, do, yeah, exercises.

What's your favorite, what's your go-to set of push-ups for your vocal cords?

For my voice, I think you start gently with lip trills. Brrr. Yeah.

Brrr.

Yeah.

Brrr.

Yeah.

And that loosens everything up. Yeah? And then you get fuller and fuller. Don't leave your best notes in the dressing room though— That's the secret!

Ahh... Do you do all the "wah wah wah wah wah"?

I do "wah wah wah wah." You're very good.

All day long.

Oh yeah, you have to. And you taught yourself early on to sing, yes? Or did you ever take any formal lessons?

Uh, I sold newspapers as a child on the street corner so I learned how to read My first singing job was to sell the Evening Chronicle in my town, and I would sing, Evening Chronicle!

Really?

That would get some attention.

And people would come over because it was loud, and you'd be like, here, you want to buy a paper?

Of course, yeah. I'd stand outside the shipyard where I was born, next to a shipyard, and I'd sell the evening paper to the shipyard workers as they came out.

Do it again. What are the words? Do it again.

Evening Chronicle.

It does sound oddly like Sean.

Evening Chronicle. See?

Yeah, there it is.

That's a good warm-up.

And then also Sting, the— now, you know, I do a lot of incredibly in-depth research. Um, uh, so on Wikipedia, you have access to Google. Yeah.

Is that what you mean?

Yeah. On Wikipedia, they say— is this true? That you— a friend of your father, I think, left behind a guitar and— a Spanish guitar? Yeah. And that is what sort of sparked the interest in music and you were playing around with that? Partially true?

Well, as a kid, 8 years old, my— I called him my Uncle John. Everybody was your uncle in my street. Uh-huh. He emigrated to Canada.

Yes.

Good choice. And he couldn't take his guitar, so he—

we don't like guitars—

left it to the family. And I recognized that thing as a friend for life. Yeah. I also recognized it as some kind of escape mechanism, right? I thought, I'm going to escape with this thing. I didn't quite— it was a vague idea, but I did not want to work in that shipyard where everybody else worked, right? So I thought, the guitar is maybe my, my passage out of— my passport out of here. And I sat in the corner, didn't speak to anyone for 6 months, learned to play it. I saved up for the string that was missing.

Really?

And I could play pretty quickly.

Totally self-taught? You just sort of figured out the combination of little pressing with the fingers gives you a different chord? Or was there any help?

I had a very good musical ear. My mom was a piano player, so she sort of listened to me go, and she said, "You have a good ear, son." You should learn music. So she sent me down the street to an old music teacher, retired, and, um, taught me— he taught me music. But I have to walk down my high street with a guitar in a plastic bag, and you could not go unmolested if you were carrying a guitar down my high street. So, you know—

You should have worn slippers. They would have stayed away from you. That's Sean's safety strategy.

I never wear slippers.

Wow, wait, wait. So Sting, whereabouts is this in England?

Okay, I come from the northeast coast of England, near the city, and between the city of Newcastle and the North Sea is a town called Wallsend where it was a big shipyard. That was the only source of employment in the town. And it was quite a surreal industrial environment. Literally, I lived next door to this place. My street would be, the sun would be blotted out by the ship, the hull of a ship. I've watched thousands of men walk to work every morning and think, is that what I have to do?

And now you've written— we're going to get to this, but you've not recently written, but you are doing another tour of, and grander yet, of The Last Ship.

Yes, I am.

Tell us about it.

Well, I've been writing it my whole life in a way. You know, I described a surreal industrial environment, which I did not appreciate at the time. But in hindsight, you know, once I was— I had left and I had an international career and success, I realized that I was gifted with something that was quite precious. I mean, the profound symbolism of giant ships, a river going by the end of the house, the sea, a church tower. These were very powerful symbols for a budding, a budding writer, a budding artist. And I realized that I needed to tell the story of my community, the community that made me who I am. It gave me a sense of identity, a work ethic, uh, an engine to escape from it. But nonetheless, I needed to, uh, pay a debt back, if you like, to the people who brought me up and say thank you.

So then how did you— So how did you come from there, from this place in the northeast of England and sort of not self-taught, but you did— You obviously had this inclination and you had the help from this music teacher. And then how did you form The Police? How did that first happen? I'm so interested. I'm such a— I got to say, I'm freaking out a little bit.

Yeah, me too.

I'm such a massive fan of your music.

I did a lot of stuff before I Got a job in the police. I had a real job before I was a celebrity. I was a schoolteacher. No way. I taught in a mining village. I taught 11-year-olds.

Wow.

Soccer, music, English, math.

Wow.

And then I realized that if I didn't leave this teaching job, I would be stuck there forever. So I told the— the headmistress, she was a nun. I said, look, I'm leaving at the end of term. And she said, well, you'll lose your pension. And she was right, I did lose my pension.

You were probably 30 years away from your pension at least, right?

That was important then though. But, uh, I decided no, I would go to London. So I had one phone number. I was also a dad. I just recently had a kid, I was married, um, I had a car and a dog, I paid tax, I voted. So I was a grown-up.

Wow.

Before I became, you know, a cosseted celebrity.

Yeah.

So I always, I always say that that's so important for me to— it gives me my balance. If I have any balance, it's because of that.

But you were armed with this incredible intellect, um, um, and this, um, this, this environment, this upbringing of, uh, I mean, it sounds incredibly, you know, cinematic, eh, but, um, these, these elements that to me sort of lend themselves to metaphors and, uh, issues of, of, uh, sort of existentialism and whatnot. Like, you were able to match your intellect to your upbringing and write these songs for the rest of your life. Is that what kind of— Do you find that it all culminates into this great place with The Last Ship?

Well, J.B., I'll sort of dove on that too, which is so many musicians or artists that we talk to have come out, you know, start doing it very young, maybe start in a band when they're 19, and they haven't had the things that you just described. All these rich experiences of being a dad, of having a job, of paying taxes, of voting, all that kind of stuff. And then they go into this artistic life and they don't have— you seem to have, like, again, kind of JB, what you were saying, drawing on all these real life experiences.

Yeah, and your lyrics always have been, you know, they're far from silly. They're always about something.

Some of them are silly, Jason. No, I don't know.

Well, doo doo doo da da da, I suppose.

No, they're the least silly. They're the least silly.

I mean, I was making a point there about nonsense songs. Yeah, yeah. Doo wah diddy diddy da doo run run run. Yeah. Hey Nonny, Nonny, no from Shakespeare.

Obladi oblada.

It's a tradition.

Well, sorry, just a side note, Sting. And I know we've asked you 5 questions here and you haven't, but one of your more famous sort of one-word lyrics, and I want to hear your thoughts on this, of course, is in the Dire Straits song is when you came on, you're saying, I want my MTV.

All right.

Launched the whole thing.

I mean, launched an entire thing.

But anyway, but yeah. So then, so, yeah. So picking one of those questions, still continuing Last Ship. Have you found that this is— and you're nowhere near done— but, uh, that this is a, this is a really interesting project for you to now revisit, um, and continue to talk about? Because I think there's some new songs in it. Talk about where you came from and marrying your experience, your intellect, and all of that into, um, how you started.

You know, it's a deeply emotional, uh, play for me. Um, my parents, who died like 40 years ago, are on stage with me every night. There's something, there's this kind of spiritual connection I have with the people I've lost. And my brother came to see the play in Amsterdam the other day, and he was a wreck. He cried from the beginning to the end. In a good way. It was cathartic for him. But he knows exactly what I'm singing about and the community that we come from. So it's a very emotional play. And I'm gonna be doing it at the Metropolitan Opera House in New York City. I mean, it's such an amazing dream.

I'm gonna come see that. I'm gonna be in town. I'm gonna come see that.

Please do.

Yeah. I'm very, very excited about it. And what about it that— what about it for you said to your— you said to yourself, well, I'm gonna write a musical about this, and there's gonna be performance in addition to music and lyrics and stuff, as opposed to, I wanna write an album about this? This subject?

I think I was going through a period of, um, I call it writer's block, but that's a little bit dramatic, but not just wondering what, what do you write about? You know, you're, you're in your 40s, you don't want to write about your Chevrolet or your girlfriend, you know, it's, it's, it's just you're beyond that. So I, I went back to my past, um, went back to the town I was brought up in and started to sing songs about people I knew. And that freed me up. Instead of navel-gazing into my own psyche, I would try and, you know, see the world through somebody else's eyes, somebody I knew. And that really freed up the songwriting. And these songs came out of me like projectile vomiting, as if they'd been stored up there for a long, long time. It was a very quick process.

Is it because the subject matter or the thematics of it are particularly more, um, relevant and resonant today in today's society, or?

Oh, I think there are certain— certainly relevance to today. You know, it's about a community under threat from economic forces that they have no control over. The economics are saying, well, the job you do making ships is now irrelevant and you are expendable. And of course, all of us are facing that right now with AI. All of us can be replaced by— a robot, although, oh, so they think. Um, I have opinions about that, but yeah, we are, we are, we are under threat.

Yeah, yeah.

I remember I watched that, uh, I watched that documentary about, uh, Sunderland Till I Die, which is not far, I guess, from you. That was very close.

Yeah, you're a Newcastle fan though, yes?

I support the other, other team.

Yeah, you support Newcastle? Yeah, that's, it's a good squad. Uh, I'm a Liverpool supporter.

We'll be right back.

And now back to the show.

I did want to get more into the lyrics because you've always— well, first of all, another thing is, are you— do you write music first? Do you write lyrics first? Does it— is it a mixture of the two? Because so many of your lyrics, I mean, so many of your songs You know, the lyrics are so, I don't know, for Message in a Bottle, for instance, like a song like that, which is so dense lyrically and is such an incredible—

They're satisfying on their own. Don't even need the music.

And such a great message and so resonant.

You know, there's no one method to write a song. You can start with a lyric, you can start with a riff or a series of chords or a melody that suddenly floats into your head. But I have to remind myself every time I want to write a song that all of them, even the most successful ones, began as a tiny kernel of an idea, just something that intrigued me, a novelty, an interval, you know, a flattened fifth or something very tiny. And then I built on it bit by bit. And they weren't masterpieces until you did a lot of work on them.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Does that—

Yeah, but that song, like, sorry, just to— I'm now on Message on a Bottle and I'm thinking about it. For me, that's always been one of those songs that really sort of captures that— the spirit of loneliness, especially at the end when you sort of say, you know, he talks about sending it out and then woke up this morning, can't believe what I saw. Yeah. 100 billion bottles wash up on the shore. And I always loved the line, seems I'm not alone at being alone. It's just like— That always, I mean, it's as impactful to me today as the first time I heard it. And I wonder if you remember writing that and where you were at when you wrote a song like that.

I was living in Bayswater in a basement flat, not a terribly salubrious part of London. And I wrote that guitar riff, the message in a bottle thing, and I was thinking, What is this about? What is it? And I was feeling a low ebb and thinking, I feel like I'm shipwrecked and I'm a castaway here. Because I wasn't successful at the time. I was struggling to make a living. I'd gone to London with a dream and it wasn't being realized immediately. So this was from that period then. And I'd only be singing it to the dog. Who would occasionally wag a tail, but that was it. That was the only response I got.

Um, the, uh, you know, when you say that all these, no matter what the song is, um, it always starts with just a little kernel. Does that then ever put you in a place of, um, like, are you ever able to relax for fear of missing a little kernel that might come by? Just walking down the street, making some sort of observation, or hearing something somebody might say, say or thinking of a little bit of a tune. Are you ever, ever able to just turn off the, the radar?

It's important to, uh, to keep a notebook, I think.

Yeah.

So you can, you know, wake up with a melody in your head.

Uh, do you have a little tiny notebook or do you use like your iPhone now?

I— well, yeah, the notes on my iPhone.

Yeah. Do you ever, do you ever dream Do you dream melodies?

I wake up with melodies in my head.

I do too sometimes, but I'm too lazy to do anything about it.

Is it usually the melody from Benny Hill?

What do you do when you wake up with a melody? How do you remember it? Do you hum it into like voice notes?

I should do that, yeah. But I won't get back to sleep if I wake up with a melody. I will not be able to sleep.

So I go down and sit with a guitar and say, "Okay." Go back to going to London for the first time when you were a teenager. Teacher, and then I'm always fascinated with like, how did you— had you visited London, you saw the big city and it inspired you? Like, how did you— what drove you to think, you know what, I have to go to London and pursue this?

There was no way to, to, to do what I wanted to do in, in my, my town. There was no template for that, right? So yeah, and you knew that you had to go to London. Yeah, that was it.

Yeah. Okay.

And so, you know, I auditioned for— to sing in, uh, cocktail bars And they'd say, uh, well, we want you to do top 40 hits. I said, well, I don't know any top 40 hits, but I've got a song of my own. And I'd sing Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic, and the guy would say, well, it's not a hit, is it? I said, well, not yet.

But, uh, if he could see you now.

I didn't get that job.

Wow, that's amazing. That's amazing.

Wow.

Since you started on the guitar, when was the transition to bass? Was that simply because, um, The guy, I forget his name, who you started with, with Stewart, that Andy later replaced.

Oh, um—

Was it because he wanted to play guitar and you pivoted over to bass?

No, I just, I think it's a very, very astute choice to make if you want to be a band leader. Uh, because I sing the top line.

Yeah.

And because I play the bottom line, the rest of the band has to operate literally within my bandwidth. Ah. And as a bass player, you can change the harmony harmony very, very profoundly. The piano player or the guitarist can be playing a C chord. If I play a G below that, I've completely altered the harmony. So I'm in control. It's a very subtle way of controlling, but it's very, it's very profound.

Oh wow.

Yeah, yeah.

I'd love to.

1-6-4 or 1-6-4 or 5-6-5 or one chord.

Exactly. Inversions are the heart of my music, I think.

I love that.

Yeah, you know, the versions, inversions.

I don't—

I'm not musically, uh, educated enough to—

nor me, nor me. But Sean is classic.

I mean, I love music.

Yeah, like, like, like, you— in 2 seconds you could learn C-E-G is a C chord, and if you take the G and you put it on the bottom, all of a sudden that's a 1-6-4.

It's genius.

If you're a piano, I could show you in 2 seconds. You guys would learn so fast.

That's where jazz will come in when you listen to your peers.

I think my thing on jazz is, it's kind of, I said it sort of offhand, it's a running joke too, like I can't, that my friend Mark Chaplin and I always have, which is, Chappie, shout out to Chappie. Whether it's cool to say you like it or cool to say you don't, it's just a joke. But it's actually, and his son is at school taking jazz in London. I do. I think I don't appreciate it enough, and I probably don't know enough about it.

I'll tell you a story. Yeah, when I was, I was 14, I was at what's called a grammar school. I got a scholarship to study there. It's like the kind of elite school for poor kids. And I would take my guitar, and one, one afternoon, uh, I was playing in the classroom, and this older kid, uh, came up and said, you're good. He said, do you like jazz? I said, I don't, I don't I don't know. He said, I'm gonna give you something. And he gave me an album. He said, listen to it tonight. You won't like it, but listen to it tomorrow night and the next night and the next night, and then you will learn something. So he gave me Thelonious Monk playing live solo at Olympia in Paris, right? So I put it on. He was right. I didn't like it. Kind of really angular, weird. Harmony shit. I thought, put it on the next night, a little better. By the third night, I'd opened up a part of my brain that had been closed. And I think it's about exposure to difficult harmony. Without that exposure, you can't hear it. You go, oh, it's, ugh, it sounds terrible.

But once you open it, it's the sweetest place to be.

Oh, man, I'm gonna write that down. Yeah, it's, um—

I'm literally writing this down.

What is the, um— I am also a musical moron, but the stuff that you can easily follow, that you can tap your toe to, is what, 4/4 time? Is that right?

I mean, common time, yeah. Most pop music is written in 4/4, yes.

Right. And then, so, is it— what is the one that always surprises you? Is that like third?

Well, it could be 5/4, which is like Take Five is written in 5/4, or I like 7/8. 7 beats in a bar, or like 9/8.

And to ding-dongs like me, it always sounds like it's a mistake. Like, how do they keep missing this?

Yeah, you know, but 3/4 is a wall.

Okay, but then to your point, Sting, you, you— it ends up making you a better listener. It trains you. You learn how to appreciate something that's a bit more sophisticated, and consequently you don't get sick of that song, uh, as quickly as you do the other ones.

You're right. Um, I think the, the brain is split in two, as you know. One part of the brain analyzes analyzes or processes very simple intervals like thirds and fifths. The other part of the brain analyzes more complex intervals and more complex rhythms. So unless you've opened one side of the brain and not closed it off, you will not be able to appreciate difficult music.

Yeah, and most people don't appreciate those nuances in the 7/8 and the 5/4 and the 6/9 and whatever.

I do. If I'm jamming with a guitar, I'm invariably playing in 7/8.

That's wild!

You know?

But I don't know it— Jay, do you know this? And this is— you're gonna make fun of me. Do you know the score of Evita at all?

Uh, I do. I'll bet I would if you told it to me.

There's one song that I can't remember what it was: rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling, 1-2-3, 1-2, 1-2, 1-2-3, 1-2, 1-2, 1-2-3. Right. That's 7/8, right?

Yeah, yeah, that sounds like a West Side Story one or... Yeah, totally. Da-na-na-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Yes. A little bit syncopated.

You know, Sting, the first time I ever saw— I was a kid when MTV started, and one of the first things I ever saw was Synchronicity II video, which is still fresh in my mind, and I love that song, I love that video. Were you someone who embraced the advent of video as it marries to audio and songs, or Did you like, "Oh God, I gotta do this video"? Like, did you hate it or did you enjoy it?

No, I think British bands had a distinct advantage in the advent of MTV because there was only one kind of pop show in England. It was called Top of the Pops. It was a chart show.

Yeah.

And if you got into the top 20, you could perform on the show. And if your record went up, you'd perform the next week. But if you were on tour, you had to make a video. So it was— and they'd show the video. So we had all of these examples of videos we'd made when we couldn't turn up to actually do the show that immediately went onto MTV. So we were well-practiced.

Oh, wow.

So that was our— the second British Invasion was due to that fact.

Was that the—

That's cool.

Could that be— was that the first time you were in front of the camera and started to— to maybe even have the spark of acting?

No. No. I said I had a lot of jobs. I was trying to make a living in London. I modeled for a while. And I was— I went to an advertising agency. And I was modeling a— I think it was some kind of jewelry thing. And I was a punk. And it was shot by Ridley Scott. Wow. Wow. Wow. Who had a company called RSA.

Sure.

And I did a lot of work for them as a kind of model on film.

But wait, so these— were these— was it print? Were these— were stills or was it movies?

No, this was for advertising in cinemas. So in between movies.

So then the concept of striking a pose, making a face, conveying a mood, a tone through movement, through expression, body language, et cetera, that was interesting to you? Did it have anything to do with performing on stage when you're doing music? Like, I guess what I'm sort of prodding, I'm trying to— What is your attraction to acting, and is it a cousin to what you like doing on stage?

I think I've been posing my entire life.

Oh, we all do it. We all have.

Yeah, yeah. You know, I think I invented blue steel, frankly.

Yeah, you are the originator of that. Of many things.

Yeah, because I was in, in Zoolander 2 as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. With, with, uh, Mr. Justin Theroux, who had a lot to do with those.

Yeah, who actually proposed in my house.

Yeah.

And he said to me, do you think I should marry this girl? I said, well, if you don't, I will.

I love it.

Is that true? Did he really propose in your house?

Would I lie to you?

Yeah, come on.

No, it's true. He came He comes to stay with us in Italy, in Tuscany.

That's amazing.

You know, it's funny, The Police. I mean, how many records did you guys release? 5 in 5 years? Is that right? Something like that?

I don't remember.

But I mean, it's really— I think your last— was your last record Synchronicity?

I think it was.

Yes, it was.

And that was like 1983.

Wait, that was the last one?

Yeah, I know. Isn't that amazing?

Wow. Yeah, but then going into— Yeah, go.

And then you went into— Right. And then you went into everything else and all your—

A stratospheric solo career.

Of course. And do you— Did it feel like you were going into a different fate? Like, did it feel totally different coming out of being part of a band and then going out on your own? Was it just like a— What was that like?

Again, it was kind of strategic, you know, and kind of counterintuitive. You know, why would you leave the biggest band in the world at its peak?

Yeah.

I said, well, after this, everything's going to be diminishing returns. I want to start the adventure again and take that risk. And also, if I don't leave now, I'll never be able to leave.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, I love the Stones. The Stones are fantastic, but they are welded together. Yeah, yeah, they are. I, I wanted to leave the band before I— that weld was entirely right. I just wanted some freedom, right?

Right. Yeah. And the music, while it, while it was, um, um, different, it, it's still— there was, there was always a complexity to what you guys were doing just as a 3-man band. And when you went off and created another band. Yes, it was titled just "Your Name," but the musicians you put together were just incredible. And that band as a unit made some incredibly complicated music. I was so glad to see the, um— What was the name of the documentary of the recording of "Dream of the Blue Turtles"? "Bring on the Night." "Bring on the Night." Oh, fuck, I love that movie. And watching you guys, it was in some gorgeous château or manor or something, it was just— Watching you guys do what you did um, there was such a— yes, you were the leader, but the, the, the sharing, uh, the camaraderie that, that you, that you created with them, it was so nice to see you guys all working together as co-equals to create what you guys did.

You know, one of my strategies has always been to, to play with musicians who are better than me so that I would have to raise my game. Uh, that was true with the Police That's true with the Blue Turtles and it's true now.

Yeah, yeah, 3.0.

I'm still struggling to maintain my position because I hire people who are way better than me.

Yeah, yeah, so talk to us about that, about 3.0 and about what excited you about creating that and what's the goal there?

The goal was really to strip the songs down to their barest skeletal form and see if they were still sturdy enough to stand without all that flesh on it. And lo and behold, there's so much air around the instruments and clarity that it is both louder and quieter at the same time. The dynamics are much more extreme.

Meaning that you've taken just the 3 fellas and you've stripped away a bunch of other things. And when you say the songs, you're talking about songs that include the entirety of your career or just recently or what?

Just take away the keyboard parts all the layered synthesizer parts, the strings, and you're just left with guitar, bass, drums, and a voice. Yeah, it's amazing how sturdy those songs are.

I, I bet. I mean, it's such a testament to, to, to them themselves, you know, the songs themselves. What, are you still on tour with that?

Yeah, in between, in between shows with The Last Ship, um, I, I'm touring with a band. Yeah, I'm trying to keep both, both things in there because I love them Both.

You just announced new dates, right? Um, I think there's going to be a domestic, uh, or a US tour in May, I want to say.

Yeah, May. And May and then November.

Oh, right, right, right.

I'm coming back for the midterms.

We need you.

We'll be right back.

All right, back to the show.

Mixed in all of this, it should be noted, you've spent a lot of your time throughout your life devoted to activism for a lot of different causes. Yeah, like rainforest. Well, yeah, I remember the— what was it? The secret policeman's other ball. You were part of that.

That was the first time you performed solo, is that correct?

Well, first time since I became famous.

Yeah, but he did that. Band-Aid and all these, and then you've continued Amnesty and stuff over the years. Where does that sort of fit in your life?

Well, I've always had a social conscience. You know, I think as a member of society, you have a debt to society.

Noblesse oblige.

Noblesse oblige, very good French. It's never been a question for me that I wouldn't be involved in issues like that. I still am. I mean, I don't write songs that are propaganda, you know. I am always looking for a metaphor that I can express an idea in without just saying, you know, you're good and you're bad. I have to have a metaphor.

How are we doing in some of those areas that you're passionate about, the rainforest and others?

Well—

It's pretty bleak, to be honest with you. You know, we protected an area of the rainforest, my wife and I, the size of Belgium and the Netherlands. And then with the Bolsonaro government, they just made incursions into that protectorate. And so it's bleak. It's not a good picture at the moment.

Do you think that, speaking of AI, do you see AI as something that could be helpful in something like that?

Well, I mean, if it's truly intelligent, it will tell us to stop burning the rainforest. Right. Stop polluting our rivers, you know.

And it may come up with some sort of an alternative. I get why you're burning it because you need X, but here's another way you could get X. Yeah. Maybe, yeah?

Maybe that would be a useful— or, you know, medical research, I'm sure.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm really— I'm applauding your optimism right now. Yeah?

I really—

this is a new—

I did see— I think I was telling you guys about the documentary I saw out the other day. I want to give a little plug too. It was so fantastic. It's called The AI Doc, with the subtitle of How I Became an Apocaloptimist. And it's about a guy who's about to have a child, and he is simply taking the position of the layman and saying to all of these experts, should I be worried about having a kid coming into this world, given what we're hearing? Should I be bullish or pessimistic about, about, uh, AI's contribution to society and mankind. Um, and, and it was, it was not only a really entertaining documentary but super educational, and I did come out the other side optimistic. And so, um, I would, I'd ask our guest here, um, you know, maybe specifically to music but also just in general, um, if you're, if you're willing to give us your, your hot take on what you think AI is gonna, gonna, gonna do for us.

Well, I'll speak about my field. Yeah, talk about music. You know, AI AI can create perfectly serviceable pop music that you would hear in a hotel lobby. Right. Or an airport. But there's a difference between listening to something and hearing something. So I'm saying you'll hear that in an airport. I will know it's AI almost immediately. But will I listen to it? No. What I'm listening for in a piece of music created by a human being is that that human being has lived the life, that human being has had its heart has been in love. Machine can't do that. Machine doesn't have a family history, good or bad. It's just a set of, you know, other people's memories. So I don't think we are in danger of losing that. I think people will know that this is a machine that's singing to them and it's not real. I hope so anyway.

And do you think that maybe, hopefully, one of the byproducts will be that people will really celebrate and really, there will be a premium for live experiences with other human beings. Like, that will be hopefully one of the byproducts.

I agree. Also, you know, you're competing with a kind of perfectionism that machines can give you. Now, I think artists in the 19th century, visual artists, were challenged by the invention of photography that could create reality in a in such a detailed way. So, instead of trying to compete, they created the Impressionist movement where they weren't painting objects anymore, they were painting the light around objects. And that, I think human beings will sidestep that perfection to create something better.

I agree. Yeah, it's almost going back to what we were talking about with jazz. It's jazz by intention and by definition is improvisational and is meant to sort of mess it up a little bit. Like, you know, you can play the 4/4 time and make it all work, but It takes a real master to kind of identify the gray areas around that and kind of bend it and tweak it a little bit and then re-arrive at something that's perhaps a little bit more predictable and then break it again. And I doubt a computer would be able to be that sophisticated.

We have to go through whatever phase this is in humanity of this AI to come back. Look, vinyl's back. Like, everything comes back, you know.

And I think about vinyl. I mean, when we went to— what was your feeling when they started going digital to sort of CDs and stuff and that kind of compressed sound and all that? How did that affect—

I mean, we kind of enjoyed it and I liked CDs, but there's something uncanny about digital silence instead of that white hissy noise you get when you put a record on, which is kind of comforting. Yeah. Digital silence is very spooky.

Yeah, it is.

It's kind of like film too, right? Where you actually see film, you see some of the hair and some of the noise on the image, whereas the digital stuff is so clean.

And also the experience of like going out when I was a kid and— forgive me again for like going out and buying one of your records and the day it came out and cutting the plastic on it.

Cellophane.

Yeah, the cellophane, and then taking it out and putting it on the record player and looking at the lyrics and singing. And that was the only connection that you had. And it was so— exciting.

Yeah.

You know, you're like, I just went out and I got the new Sting record, I got the new Police record. Like, you know, that experience where we're robbing ourselves of these experiences.

It was an entire world, you know. I mean, you can stream songs now, but they don't tell you who played bass on them. They don't tell you who was the engineer, you know, where it was made. It's just a product like coffee. It's a commodity.

Right.

So you need that information and an album The album covers satisfied an entire generation, which I'm part of.

I remember that.

That was our world.

Yeah, you'd listen and stare at the album cover for hours as you were listening to every detail of it.

I did that with The Carpenters. I used to listen to The Carpenters so much.

Let's move on.

Um, hey, Sting, are we ever going to see you, uh, uh, do some, some, some acting again? Um, because you're a great actor.

You've got— I'm actually in my play. I'm in my play.

Yeah, yeah, yes. And I'm gonna come see that. I'll be the guy, uh, in front, uh, heckling and judging.

Will you go see him backstage, Jason?

I'm gonna go. I'm gonna come see you backstage, which I always find is a little sweaty, but I'm told that's, that's what the polite thing is to do. Do you like that? Do you like people coming backstage?

Yeah, yeah, I do.

What, you do? You're not exhausted and you just want to go home, or you want—

No, I want adulation.

I want Right, I'm gonna come back. I'm just gonna—

you need to know that this is a thing for Jason that we've been through for years about this question as to whether or not to go backstage. What about after a concert?

Oh yeah, well, actually, I usually leave the building immediately in case they want their money back. So yeah, um, with the last— the last show, they don't. They just come and— yeah, so it's great.

So Sting, you know, we, we just listed all of the Things that you do and that you don't, it just seems like you're the hardest working person in the world. I mean, what do you—

Did you say hottest looking?

Hardest working.

Okay, I'll take both.

Hardest working person in the world.

Hottest looking.

Just with all your charity work you do, all the concerts you do, all the— you're doing a live show, you're doing a tour, you're just, you're writing more albums. It's just endless. It's incredible. Like you said, your work ethic is just incredible. Incredible.

The question is, yeah, when are you an idiot? Yeah, right. Yeah. What do you do? What do you do that's just dumb as shit?

And, you know, agreeing to do this show.

Yeah, sure. You were— the regret, the regret must be immense.

You saw the title of it, you said, perfect, that's me.

Smart less.

Okay. Um, like, do you have any, any, any guilty, uh, sort of, um, that my brain needs to rest and, and do?

Of course I do, but I'm not gonna tell you.

Come on.

Oh no, you gotta tell us.

Uh, Sean likes candy Crush on his phone.

Yeah. I have no idea what that is.

Yeah, it's some dumb little game. Good sign. But I would imagine— or is it just nice long walks with the great Trudi Styler and just—

You know, I'm very gifted in life to have this beautiful woman who's been my partner for over 45 years. That's like, you know, since the Second World War. And we just have a great time. We love each other. I mean, I won't see her for 6 weeks, actually, 'cause I'm going to Australia tomorrow to do the last show The Last Ship.

So, uh, that's too long, right? I bet you guys, you guys have, uh, a, a, a, like a 2-week rule like the rest of us. Are you, you good about normally?

But this, this is a long, a long period.

So, uh, yeah, yeah, it's a long time.

What do you think about doing the show night after night? Like, I always say that the hardest part is if, if you're feeling like shit and, or you've got a stomachache or a headache or whatever, you have to keep— you have to go on.

You know, there are 2 plays going on with The Last Ship. There's one that's on stage that the audience sees. There's another one behind stage. You meet little cliques in behind stage at a certain point in the play, and that's when you sing along with the person in, you know, in front of the stage, or you have a hand clapping competition. There are little rituals that you never stop. You're doing both plays, and I know where I have to be, and we all do that.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, are you excited about— have you, have you played the Met before with anything?

I've, I've, I've performed at the Met with, with my band a couple of times, but this is the first time I've actually been in a play in the Met, and it's a massive, uh, theater, but the set of the play is so huge. We are recreating a shipyard, and it has an operatic scale, which is— I mean, it's not an opera, but it has an operatic scale. Also, I think it has the emotional ambition of an opera. It's a very emotional play.

I can't wait to see this.

Yeah. And, and so did the—

did this—

did the— did the sets change for the Met? Were— are they built bigger? Are they more are they more operatic because of that venue?

They're bigger because of the venue. We started out in Amsterdam, and then we were in Paris in massive halls, and it really works.

What about writing an opera or writing a symphony? Is any of that interesting to you?

Look at his face.

I'm a songwriter, and The Last Ship is a song cycle. Musical, you know, with a theatrical, uh, component to it. But, uh, you know, to write an opera, yeah, I'm not qualified to do that.

But yeah, that feels like a pretty hard no. I'm just remembering your performance in one of my favorite films of all time. It just has a— which is Quadrophenia.

Well, I was in, in that film long enough to make an impression but not long enough to No, but it's such a great film.

Have you guys ever seen that, Quadrophenia?

No, I have seen little pieces. Oh, man. I would love to see more acting out of you.

Well, that was during the period when I was modeling and just doing anything, you know, trying to get a gig in a cocktail bar, so I would do anything. And this agent called me up and said, "Do you want to go for Quadrophenia?" I said, "Nah, I'm washing my hair." But she said, "No, go." So—

I loved the original Dune. I loved you in the original Dune. Have you seen that? The new ones? Yeah, yeah, they're pretty cool. Yeah, they're pretty cool.

I think Austin Butler was playing me in the new one.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Um, it's great.

Well, two handsome guys, two handsome guys, Sting.

See, that's right.

I mean, their version wasn't as camp as ours, I have to tell you.

Yeah, yeah, it was David Lynch, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. Um, well, uh, I can't thank you enough for spending time with us and letting us Peek behind the curtain a bit with your brilliance, your accomplishments. I mean, is there— is there— is there anything we should keep our knees bent for that you're gonna try to also perfect? I mean, everything you've done, it's all been so different and so incredible. Is there a challenge for you out there left?

I think the basis of all art art, not to be pretentious, but it is surprise.

Yeah.

Uh, in a composition, you want to surprise people within 4 bars, or, you know, a piece of writing, you want to surprise people within the first few sentences. So I'm hoping to surprise myself about what, what is next. I don't know what is next. Yeah, but I, I have to have surprise. I have to have novelty. I have a very low threshold for boredom.

Yeah, yeah.

So I need to be surprised.

Yeah. And I would imagine— I hope the answer to this is yes— that you have allowed yourself to be satisfied and yet even proud of, of what you've done, and that you need not prove anything to yourself or to us, uh, and that, that it is just all just sort of for, for fun going forward. Do you allow yourself the, the observation of accomplishment? Uh, I mean, it's just been incredible.

I mean, I'm a very fortunate man in every, you know, important field.

Yeah.

I have a family, I have a wife, uh, and a career. Yeah. And yeah, I've been, I've been very fortunate.

Well, we're very fortunate to have received it all, so thank you.

And please, I could ask you about, like, I mean, I, it's, when you, when I meet somebody like you, it's so massively iconic. I just want to talk to you about how every, what's the story behind every song that you've ever wrote? Would you take, would you take hours and hours.

You know, I, I do a show on my own in smaller venues where it affords the opportunity to give context to the songs.

Wow.

Say, okay, I, I wrote it in, in the flat in Bayswater, or this, this was what inspired me, or how it was written. And I think that context makes the songs richer.

Yeah.

But you can, you can't do that in an arena or a stadium, obviously, but in, in a small place with maybe 100 people, you can really create the world that the songs came from.

And you will still do that? You'll still do that from time to time?

Yeah, I did one 2 weeks ago.

Oh man, I want to come and see that.

Yeah, is that— that's not Sting 3.0, is it? Is there some of that in that?

No, it's just sometimes I'll do a one-off just to do an hour of my songs and stories.

I'd love to see that.

Ooh, that would be good. I would like that. All right.

Thank you so much, man. Honestly.

Really appreciate the time.

Yeah.

Thank you. I'll be banging on your dressing room door in a couple of months. Pretend you remember me.

Please do.

I might be with him.

Please do.

All right. Well, you enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you again for joining us, Sting.

I have my cover.

Yeah. You just slam it shut. Really appreciate the time, Sting. Good luck with Sting 3.0 and the Last Ship.

That was fun. Thank you so much.

All right, cheers.

Bye-bye.

Bye. Thank you.

Bye-bye. Wow, Jason.

Yeah, how about that?

Yeah, when he, when you, when he popped up— well, when you said how many Grammys he won, 17 Grammys, 100 million records. That's unbelievable.

I think he's like close to EGOT level, and, and I just— he's a Ross, as I said, he literally started in 1969. So that was the year I was born. And as young as I can remember, he has been the guy and is across all of my years of music appreciation. Every single year I've liked listening to music, he's had music that I loved listening to.

I love that. Yeah, that's great. Wait, '69 was the year he started—

he started performing with The Police, or, uh, what? No, uh, started performing, uh, music, I guess, as a kid, or learning the music.

'78, I think.

Okay, okay.

I think that— yeah, it sounds about right.

Something like that.

How do you know that?

Well, because I'm, you know, a crazy animal. I, I, I— all those records were just so important to me, like everybody else. I'm not, I'm not unique in that way.

And even if you're not a fan, which I can't believe anybody isn't, you know all all his songs, right?

Of course, you know what I mean? They're all different. Not one of his songs sounds like the last, right?

Pretty crazy.

Yeah, it's—

and all— and just the Police alone, the fact that it was just 3 of them too, making all those different sounds. And, um, oh my God, uh, he's, um, he's really, really impressive. And, and, and, and I, I'm serious, I would love to see more acting out of him. He says, I know, great presence and, um, uh, stillness to, uh, to his, to his acting style, which I'm a big, big fan of. But yeah, what— you know, I was thinking about when I was, you know, doing, you know, my brief research before this interview. This is a perfect example of how freaking lucky the three of us are.

I know. I thought that right when he popped on.

You're like, "Jesus Christ." Right? I mean, this guy's been like— I was a little, little guy when he was like a god to me, and he still is. And like, now we get to have him on our show. Like, I remember seeing, seeing The Police at the Hollywood Park, um, this racetrack here, and, you know, being a mile from the stage because that's the closest tickets I could get. And there's like the biggest rock star in the world that far away. I'll never get anywhere near somebody like that. Now, so we get to talk to these folks.

I mean, I don't even have that. I have like sitting in the living room with my sisters, like, listening to the records on the record player. Yeah, and listen, like the snap, crackle, pop of the record.

Totally.

Imagine if Karen Carpenter was still alive.

Oh, Sean. Anyway, moving on.

So yeah, it's, uh, we're never addressed truly, truly so lucky. I know, I know.

I felt that right when he came on, Jeff. I was like, wow, this is just incredible.

A big thank you to those of you who are listening that make it possible for us ding-dongs to have these childhood dreams come true.

Uh, yeah, thank you.

We are very— we are— we— he said He's very fortunate— we are very fortunate that we get to spend time with these incredible people. We're very fortunate in a lot of ways, and that is really a big one. And put it this way: we're not very hard done by...

Hardened!

Bye-bye!

Hard-done-by!

Done bye!

We're done!

Bye!

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