Transcript of "Bowen Yang"

So I booted up today, and here's what I noticed. Okay. You know, you just start talking, you hope an interesting thought comes into your head. That's where I find myself right now. So I booted up, and what I noticed was—

You thought talking about booting up was gonna get you going?

Yeah, it was just gonna trigger something for the cold open. Anything ever funny ever happen for you guys when you boot up? Look at this.

Oh, Sean's wearing a boot.

Oh, he's still wearing his walking boot.

Oh, now we're into freestyle association and it's improv and yes and, and yes and to an all-new Smartless. Smartless. Smartless. Smartless.

I apologize for picking my teeth. I just got through a bunch of really leafy vegetables. Okay, so I may— I might have to excuse myself mid, uh, mid, mid record here.

You think?

Well, I mean, to go brush? Well, no.

Why don't you get some floss?

I've got the— I've got the little pick right here. And that you're— I apologize you're having to watch, you and the whoever the surprise guest is. I apologize.

What, you can't bear it until after?

You don't know if I have something stuck between my teeth. Everything stops.

Yeah, yeah, I'm kind of the same way.

I can't— it's like a bee is stuck in my car. I gotta pull over.

You got a bee in your bonnet. Yeah, you got a bee in your bonnet.

Hey, there's a good saying. You should start that.

You got a bee in your bonnet. JB, now how's your new setup? JB's in New York now. How's your setup?

Pretty good? It's good. I'm just— I'm in the hotel for a week, and then I get the keys on Friday. So then I'll go over to the appartemente and—

And you'll be there for 3 or 4 months.

Yes.

Yeah. Wow. Isn't it wild? And I just got back.

Wild. I know. I should be playing. I should be staying at your place.

Yeah.

By the way, why don't you?

Too late, you dick. You could invite now that I'm obligated to a fucking long-term lease.

You know, you could have done that, but it would have been too small for you.

I'm going to be there soon, JB.

Yeah, we didn't ask.

Why are you going there?

Because life.

Because life, bro.

Life.

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. So I guess that's why I couldn't stay at your place. You've got a nice new fancy spot here, don't you?

I don't have keys yet.

Why? Because you're making it fancier? You're in the middle of making it fancier?

No, it's a long— it's complicated. But I'm very excited.

We're excited for you. I'm super jealous. You know how long I've wanted to live here.

I know. Why don't you just get a little tiny something?

Your second— how many times have you had a place in Manhattan?

Will?

Oh, God.

Like a place, not like a hotel, but—

You and Amy used to live there.

I lived there for over 20 years full time.

Yeah, but that was just one spot, right? I mean, how many different spots have you had here?

Different? Oh, my God.

Countless.

You have more or less than a dozen apartments.

Count them.

More or less than a dozen apartments in Manhattan.

Probably around a dozen.

Oh, really?

Yeah, something like that. Close to it, if not.

That sounds not so jealous. You, Sean? The one you have trash on is your first?

Is that your first? It's the first place I've owned. Yeah. For now, 6 years.

But back in the day, you used to move around a lot. You'd live with roommates for a year and then somebody would bail, and so you'd have to move across town. I used to be able to move in a taxi, one taxi cab ride, just a couple of duffel bags. For real. And stuff like a mattress, like a futon mattress in the trunk, and then go across town and then move back across town and whatever.

This is sad.

Those are sad moves. I think fondly back, I used to live on 21st Street for years, and I remember having— I lived in this, basically, studio. This is such a boring story, but I'm going to do it anyway. And fold-up futon mattress. I didn't even have the frame. So in the day, I'd roll it up in the corner.

Just a couch? Just a cushion?

On the floor.

Like a swollen yoga mat.

A mattress. Yeah. And then I'd have that. And then I had, like, 2 pairs of jeans and 2 t-shirts and whatever.

A dream.

It was so fuck— It was so simple. Yeah. And there was just nothing. There was nothing. It was just— I gotta say, it was incredible.

But isn't one of the greatest things about getting older is you don't move around like that? It's just exhaust— You don't realize when you're younger how exhausting it is to keep moving and moving and moving.

I still move around.

Well, you also become attached to more— You get attached to more stuff as you get older too, right? Or do you get rid of that?

You do.

You're like, "Fuck, where's all this stuff?" Hey, Sean, is that a new placement for the SAG Award, of which I bet you have many? Yeah, I need to see—

Nobody counts 4 SAG Awards. Oh, don't count.

Why would you count that?

Yeah, but that's a new spot right over your shoulder.

No, I don't know who put it there. I swear I don't.

I did.

Okay, Scotty, taking it— I'm taking it out after.

Well, let's find out what the mystery of who put the SAG Award in frame.

But have you noticed that, that people do that on their Zooms?

They put the awards in the background.

Why is that?

I'm more— I'm still, I'm still bothered about that TV behind you because it never gets viewed because it's in the worst Well, sometimes.

Sometimes.

Never.

Well, no, sometimes. This is my office. And so if there's stuff going on, we could see the fax machine.

Oh, God, he's really knocking down big deals over there.

But it's just the placement of it is so locked in. And then the seating on the other side of your desk is so far away.

I know. No, it's not that far. Anyway, when Scotty's got something going on, I come in here and I'll watch. I don't need to explain myself to you. Okay, here we go. Ready?

Watch this.

Yep, sure. My guest today is smarter than all of us combined and practically half our age. Oh. He started college as a pre-med chemistry major because he was inspired by Sandra Oh's character on Grey's Anatomy. Is this Doogie?

It's Doogie Howser!

On Grey's Anatomy. He was born in Australia, moved to Quebec, then to Colorado when he was 9. Later he moved to New York, got a graphic design job to pay the bills while doing late-night improv, and eventually walked into 30 Rock and booked Saturday Night Live, giving him 7 seasons and 5 Emmy nominations. It's a hilarious, delightful Bowen Yang.

Oh my goodness, it's Doogie! What's up, Doogs?

Doogie Howser. I've never seen it. I've never seen that show.

You're too young.

You're too young. I don't think I—

I've seen pieces of it.

Wait, Bowen's got you— you've got awards behind you too.

No, and I— and I— you guys, I know you guys are—

bust of Ben Franklin.

This is Ben Franklin. No, this is the parting gift they gave me at SNL. The makeup guys. So now they do 3D scans of your face. Yeah, that's Lauren. No, they do 3D scans of your face.

Wait, you're not done on SNL?

Yes, he is.

Yes, he is.

Oh, goddamn it.

It's okay. But we had a good time.

You got to read us.

Just last year.

I love this, by the way. There's a special quality to this. It's so his girl Friday. Just you guys all overlapping. It's so cool.

No, we're the worst. We're the worst interviewers. And we get a lot of shit because we interrupt each other all the time. People are like, I wish they'd shut up. We're like, well, this is what a conversation is.

Right?

People don't get it.

What about— what about on yours? Do you guys overlap? I'll bet all the time. Or do you do it together?

Las culturitas.

We do it together now. We used to— we would do it— we would do it very much on Zoom in years past, but now we're back to spatial shared whatever studio. You guys are— but you guys are gonna like really Rorschach test my shelves, aren't you? I don't see— this is the thing about awards. Mine are mostly glass, which I feel like are less legitimate than your awards because they could break.

Well, let's go on the books. Oh yeah.

Yeah. Oh, really?

I got a Kate Bush thing.

Oh yeah, I like Kate Bush.

What do you got, a HomePod? Is that a HomePod up in there?

This is a Sonos. This is a Sonos.

Oh, gotcha.

What's the gold one?

The gold thing is a Golden Globe.

It— no, this, this is the newly redesigned Academy Museum honor. I was there. You were there?

I was there when you got it. I was there when you got it.

Yeah.

No way.

Congratulations.

They used to be— thank you— but they used to be smaller silver Oscar statues, and now they— and now it's a, it's a gold ice cream tone. I don't understand why they changed it.

What's it for?

Vibes. Excellent.

For being, for being great at what he does.

Which is— can anyone here describe what I hear?

Sean, I don't know if you know this, Sean won a silver fedora. Uh, yeah, look at that, right behind him there for excellent cosplaying of Indiana Jones.

That's excellent. It's— and he was excellent at it.

Boen Yang, what, what's— what? Yeah, hang on a second. No, don't yeah me. I'm fucking talking to Bowen Yang. Wow, how dare you? That's so rude. Cool it. Yeah, no, I want— I want to talk to Bowen Yang. I want to know why you— why— how and why you moved around and what happened. We were just talking about moving around, and then Sean intros you, and it's like bing bong, like all over the place.

All over the place.

Why did I move around?

Yeah, your parents— you were born, and then you moved to Quebec, and then— and then, uh, what did I just say?

You started in Australia, then you had to get the hell out of there for some reason.

Quebec and then Colorado.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Quebec and Colorado. No, oh, it was, it was— my dad's been at the same job for the past like 38 years, but he, he got his doctorate in Australia, so that's where my sister and I were born, in Brisbane. Then we moved to Canada, uh, Montreal, uh, where, where I learned about Celine Dion. And then I— and then we moved to Colorado, um, for, uh, just—

and what'd you learn about there?

I learned about— okay, oh no, I moved to Colorado. Get in trouble right now. At the tail end of— I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get in trouble. I moved at the tail end of the Clinton administration, right after Columbine and JonBenét Ramsey, to Colorado. So as an 8-year-old, like, this—

the whole Clinton administration was about tail end. Let's be honest. Okay, guys, hey, wait, Bowen, how many years— what, what, how old were you then when you moved from Quebec? Because I want to get into the Canada stuff, obviously, as a Canadian.

Let's get into it. Yes, I would love to. Um, 8 years old. So I was, I, I was hysterically sobbing, being like, why are we moving to the place where people get killed? Like, it was, it was right after Jean Benet, who was in Boulder, and it was, and it was after, like, it was after all this, this, this mess.

Wait, but this is interesting. I'm gonna tell you, Willie, because this is— and this will prompt Bowen— which is your dad grew up literally in a straw and mud hut in Inner Mongolia, taught himself to read by candlelight, got a PhD in mining explosives.

What?

That's right. And then moved across 3 countries. That's crazy.

You can go to school for anything.

So he got a doctorate in blowing stuff up.

Yeah. And blowing stuff up.

Yeah.

For— at quarries and such.

And yes. Well, he loves it. He could take it anywhere he wants, I guess.

Sure.

I love— Bowen, I love your explanation. I love your explanation. He loves it.

He loves it. He loves it.

But like that, I guess you would— I would want someone to be very credentialed before I handed them the keys to some explosives.

Right.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah. And then you went to— when you— go ahead.

No, you go.

You go. I was going to say this would relate to Will. You went to— you were like blown away by Just for Laughs, which is what, a comedy festival?

Pun intended. I was blown away.

Pun intended. Yeah. Really good. Juste pour rire.

Juste pour rire.

Rire, hein?

Oh, here they go.

There would be like 3 street performers. What?

What, Jason? Jason.

Listen, you're a—

no, but you're allergic to culture.

You do not have this bridge to— I love, I love Montreal.

So do I. Montreal is a phenomenal city.

Truly, truly. I mean, like, like people say Portland has the best strip clubs. Montreal had the best strip clubs, and I could have— I had the authority. So I've heard to say this as a child, you drive through them on the way back from Chinatown into the suburbs, and you would pass by the strip clubs, and they were just— they had great lights.

Vancouver was pretty gifted, uh, for the, uh, the ballet as well.

Don't you drag that shit into here.

Yeah, no, Fraser Arms right there, just outside the airport there.

Fraser Arms. Nobody does a peeler bar like Montreal.

No peelers.

Yeah.

Anyway, so what were you inspired by? Just for laughs, like, what, what, what's the first thing you saw?

You're like, the laughs, the laughs. I heard the laughs. There would be like street performers, and they, they still have that, but like it would be free street performances and it would be the most like Quebec crazy kooky stuff. Like a mime who like pulls something out of his ear. Like, I don't know, it was just like clowning plus Oh yeah, like jokes. I don't know, it was just— it just didn't have to make sense, you know? Like, yeah, it was that. And then—

so Montreal was what ages to what ages? Sorry.

Um, was— no, that's okay. It was 3 to 9.

3 to 9. And then to Colorado.

And then to Colorado, 9 to 17.

Yeah. And 17 to what was where?

New York. And 17 to now has been New York.

Wow.

Wow.

But is that— when people ask me, where are you from? I don't know.

You're not sure?

Stolen valor if I say— well, if I say, oh, Colorado, and then Canada before that, people are like— and then I tell them what years I grew up there, they were like, oh, well, you should just say Colorado. And I'm like, yeah, but developmentally, like, those Canada years were important to me.

Yeah. Well, how much— but really, I mean, for any of us, how much do you remember before 9 years old?

Not— I remember it a lot.

Yeah, just a lot of screeching tires.

Not all of us had to black it out, man. You know what I Oh, yeah, Jakey Bates. Jakey was trying to learn how to die on the set of Little House on the Prairie and getting notes on a little less on the dying, Jake. Okay, little Jakey Bates with his bowl cut. Have you ever seen photos? If you Google Jason when he was a kid, he's so fucking cute.

Yeah, it's unbelievable.

And you can see him on— still getting there in action, and he's gotta die.

Pulling up our overalls. Hey, Pa. Um, hey, Pa. No, but, uh, I think most, most of what shaped me, uh, happened once I got I got to California, which was 7 till now. I mean, you know, I remember snow and things like that in Salt Lake City, Boston, New York, but the ages before— but nothing really shaped who I am happened before then, right? Sure. I mean, so I think— well, I mean, not as much as, you know, your Colorado years, you know, 9 to 17. I mean, that's the whole cookie right there.

I mean, Jason, let's be honest, living in LA from, you know, 18 and through your 20s, you saw a lot of snow then too.

Yeah.

Hey, let's be real. Let's be real, huh? Jesus. Fucking Porsche peeling out of Warner Brothers with a fucking beak full of snow. Here comes the weekend.

Jesus.

Oh, we had some fun.

Oh, we had fun. So, Bowen, how do you go— so pre-med chemistry, is that right?

Is that— yeah, it was. I was taking cover behind it, really, because I was looking at colleges and I was like, purely motivated by, like, what the comedy scenes were there.

Oh, okay. So, so you—

it was between, like, Northwestern and NYU.

Yeah. So you— but you— so you went with the, with the intention to pursue comedy under the guise of pre-med?

Pretty much.

Is that what you're saying? Yeah.

Really? We were just, uh, we were just, uh, talking to Colin Jost about this, right? Where he was similar.

Yeah.

So he's, he's going into Harvard studying— was it, uh, economics? Economics. And, and then he decided to just sort of tack over to comedy when he's sitting at— so you could go to Northwestern, or like, you had, you had the, the skills, the, the academic qualifications to really get yourself a career that you could count on, a nice healthy base salary and some longevity, etc. But you were like, no, no, let's go with comedy. That's what I want to put, put it all in on, huh?

Terrible, terrible. I mean, I mean, thank God it worked out.

Terrible. But who's laughing now?

But interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah. You're killing it. So it all worked out. But I was interested to ask Colin about that, and I'm going to ask you the same. It was—

go ahead. Well, I feel like with Harvard, it's like the Lampoon is like kind of institutionally there. You know what I mean? I feel like with NYU, it was like— now I feel like, especially at SNL, it's like, oh, NYU is sort of the pedigree. Where, whereas like, I don't know, 10 years ago it was more Harvard-leaning.

Oh, okay. Oh, really?

Right.

I don't know.

So that, that was part of the thinking, is because— did you end up going to NYU?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So then that was— you thought of that as possibly a feeder for SNL? SNL was a goal?

SNL was never the goal. SNL was like too, too far out of reach. But I— but like, what, what ended up happening was like people from our little ilk at NYU, our, our coterie of like freaks and weirdos were, like, being raptured up into the SNL spaceship. And then we were like, "Oh, wait. So now we have, like, we have our little canaries or whatever." I mean, it sounds nefarious, but it—

Well, were you— It does sound— It sounds like you're hiding something. But I— Do you—

Were you doing—

Were you doing sketch? Were you doing stand-up? Yeah. Were you UCP? What were you doing?

This was— We were— I was— I was going into NYU right after these boys from Derrick Comedy had just sort of, like, stormed the scene. It was Donald Glover and, like, D.C. Pierson and Dominic Dierkes. Like, Rachel Bloom was in her senior year. Um, Steph Hsu was doing sketch comedy there. Like, it was all these, like, people who were like, "Oh, there's something special about them." And then— But we, like— At the time, you couldn't say, like, "Well, we're all gonna make it big," you know? It just wasn't—

You just did what you loved.

You never say that out loud. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it sounds so annoying when people ask you, like, would you have any advice? And I'm like, I— if you can, if you can be at the right place at the right time. But there's never any way of knowing.

Yes, that's a great point.

Were you doing anything simultaneously to sort of mitigate your risk?

You know?

Yeah.

Studying anything else or studying chemistry, volunteering at Bellevue, at Bellevue Hospital, the ER at Bellevue, where I got fired. Because I had to, like, because I, I, like, I added, like, 10 minutes to my time chart or something. It was like they were, they were serious as a heart attack, so to speak, about it. Like, I, they, they would not let anything slide.

We'll be right back.

And now back to the show.

This is really interesting. When I, I read that at NYU when you're a chemistry pre-med That's because of Sandra Oh. You were a huge fan of Sandra Oh on Grey's Anatomy. And then what happened, which I think is hilarious, and her character name—

Come on, that's not a bit?

That's not a bit.

It's not a bit. It's not a bit.

And her character name is Christina Yang.

Christina Yang. Christina— Isn't that crazy? It's like the classic, like, your wires getting crossed where I was like, it wasn't that I wanted to be a doctor because I saw her. It was because one, I wanted to maybe act, and two, because I was a gay man worshiping an actress's work. Like, it was just those two things instead of like— Yeah, it's a one-two punch.

Punch. It's a one-two.

It's a one-two punch. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

So, but chemistry— but chemistry is, is, is not, is not, is not medicine. You're not going to— you're not going to, uh, you're not studying medicine. So, like, what, what, what could one—

what are you studying, Jason? Let's hear your thoughts on chemistry.

I want to know what kind of career one can anticipate with a chemistry degree.

So it's funny, like, back in the day, the word industry to me meant— didn't mean anything Hollywood. It meant, oh, like, you're working an industry job in chemistry, which means you work for, like, Procter Gamble or something. You, like, developing deodorants. Dow, right? Dow.

Yeah, yeah.

You make— you make these, like, you make pharmaceuticals, or you make, like—

that was a genuine interest for you. You, you, you, you were going to pursue that?

No, it wasn't. It was not genuine at all. It was— chemistry was because it was the path of least resistance to getting to, like, finishing my credits. There was no, like, actual interest in it. I mean, I know some—

it was a subject you had a handle of. Like, you didn't struggle. Like, I struggled greatly with chemistry. Um, that is not simple. On the bus? On the bus.

Yeah, on the bus.

Nobody, nobody registered any shock on that. It was silent after you said it.

I wasn't looking for shock.

Bowen, you never had the feds— you never had a knock at the door of the feds The kid who's a chemistry major whose dad is involved in explosives. You didn't get a quick visit? I'm sure I have.

You didn't have trouble traveling?

I'm sure I'm on a list. Oh no, you're right. I never thought of that, Will.

I mean, but I wanted to say all the crazy SNL stuff. So you were like, I read you were like me when you were a kid. You would sit in your room or with your family and do the bunny ears on the TV and still get SNL on Saturday night. I used to do that. And watch it by myself in, like, one of my brother's rooms because nobody was around. And then— and then Sandra Oh ends up hosting the show, right?

Where was everybody? Sorry, where was everybody?

Oh!

And then your sister introduced you to SNL, and then you were voted senior most likely to be on SNL in your high school?

Because that was, like, the florid, sort of, like, embellished language for our superlatives. It was like, instead of, like, class clown, it was, like, most likely to be on SNL.

No, right, right. Yeah, but there's so many— I was senior most likely to trip at graduation. Bless you. But there's no—

Did you?

Yeah, I did actually.

On what? Acid or shrooms? Hey, come on guys, let's all be alive. Let's look alive. Let's look alive.

No, but, um, I just think that's so wild. And so you watched it, your sister said, then you got voted for it, then you went there, and then Margaret Cho was there when you were into— there's so many arrows pointing that you were going to be on the show. It's just crazy.

I guess. I guess.

And then— but then, so when the audition happens, does all that stuff flood in and you feel the stakes and the pressure of it? Or were you kind of indifferent?

But let's figure out, like, how did that audition happen and then that feeling? Like, what was the— yeah, how did you get into the machine?

So speaking of Just for Laughs, that used to be the pipeline. Like, the SNL talent people would go to Just for Laughs in the summer and, like, they would pick out their people. I, um, never made it to that stage. And so I was like, I guess it's not in the cards for me. But then, like, my manager at the time said, put together a tape, 5 minutes, like the standard, uh, whatever entry point. And I was like, they'll never ever fucking hire an effeminate Asian guy, like, on that show. Like, why would they ever need that? Um, so on a lark, I was like, no one's ever gonna see this tape, so let me just, like, fuck around and do what's funny for me. And then somehow Slipped through.

That's freeing, though. That's freeing.

Good lesson for everyone.

Yeah, that must have been— you must— that feeling of like, fuck it. Like, kind of going to what Jason was saying, like, that feeling of you're doing it and being able to like do it without a net because you just don't—

sexy—

you don't care.

It is sexy indifference.

Yeah, it's a sexy indifference, as Jason likes to say. Right. It must have felt really good being able to just kind of— yeah, do it.

Because what's this thing? Okay, I think I'm talking to the right people, but I just read this somewhere. I don't really have any knowledge of it, but it's that thing that like It's like not the yips, but it's like golfers have this when they're a little too focused on the swing. They just like lose all— they lose all prowess, they lose all capability. It's when you're like not in a flow state, but it's when you're not thinking of like the micro decisions. It's when you're like, who cares? Figure skaters have this. It's like athletes have this overall where it's like pretend like no one's watching.

Hondo P. Hondo P. And I think— Hondo P. And fuck it, guys, how young am I? But, but, but, but, but it is true. I do think about that all the time. You think about it— well, they literally— in golf they talk about like gripping too tight, but there is that notion of gripping too tight in life on any of that stuff. And when you do that, that's what I meant. You must have felt really like, God, I bet you that was such an advantage because everybody else is doing their tapes and they're so tight because they got to get it right.

Yep, yep. And I wasn't— I didn't really care.

Yeah. So when— so this I read, and I, I hopefully this is tragically hilarious and not just tragic. If you want to talk about it, we have to, but I'm fascinated by the fact that your parents sent you to conversion therapy in Colorado when you were 17, which is hilarious. I mean, that's why it actually was. Yeah, I'm like, there's some comedy, probably a lot of comedy from the how horrible that was.

Yeah, definitely, because, well, because it was 8 weeks. So, so the comedy begins and the whole sort of occasioning of it, which was the ultimatum. So I don't come out. I like am discovered to be gay based on the family computer. Remember those? It was like my parents going on the family computer being like, Bowen, what's this?

Oh, they saw a sultry, dirty, dirty picture going through your search, your search history.

It was a, it was a chat window. Uh-oh, it was a chat window.

You gotta close those, Bowen.

You gotta close.

So we're sharing it. There's a family computer we're all sharing. Yep. Is that what it was?

Wow. Exactly.

So, and you just walked away to get a Coke and to get cocaine.

Yeah, cocaine. Yeah.

And you didn't close your window?

I didn't close my window. So Mom prints it out, prints out the transcript.

Oh God, how old are you?

Oh God, 17. Okay, 17.

And so she shakes the paper in front of you and says, qu'est-ce que c'est?

She said, qu'est-ce que c'est? And you got to put a little bit more Québécois on it. Um, she— and then it was, it was crazy. And it was like, I would be coming, I would be coming home to my parents sobbing at the dinner table every day. And I was like, I have to make this right. Like, how could I cause this much pain? And so the ultimatum was— it gets funny, I promise— the ultimatum was, uh, either you stay in state in Colorado, go to Boulder live with us, or you can go to college with your sister if you go to conversion therapy. But the punchline is my sister was at the gayest school in the country, NYU. Oh wow. So I was like, sure, I'll do the conversion therapy. It was 8 weeks in the summer, and it actually became like great bonding time because it was in Colorado Springs, 2-hour drive up and down from Denver. My dad and I would bond in the car and just like actually get to know each other for the first time as like adults or something. And then the guy is such a quack that like by like the 8th session, whatever, like we're going through like some diluted version of like cognitive behavioral therapy where he's like trying to like put me in my body.

Like anytime I've been attracted to a guy, like it was because you were miserable, it's because you were like in pain. And I'm like, damn it. But no, no, no, Then the last session—

No, this makes me sick.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is what it is. So the second-to-last session, my dad is asking him for referrals in New York. He was like, Bowen's going to New York. Do you have anyone there who does this kind of work? He's like, sure, I'll come up with some names next time. Stonewall. The next week, the last session— Stonewall. Yeah, go to Stonewall and go to Pieces in the West Village. He, um— The last session, he like— walks me— he like starts to go into this anecdote in the third person about one of his former patients. And he's like, yeah, my former patient just gets off at the side of the road in San Bernardino, which is not where you want to be late at night. And his car broke down, and then he goes to a Denny's, and then the waiter's making eyes at him. And then, and then my therapist starts to shift into the first person. And then I was like, am I really, am I really going to have sex with this guy? And then I did. And, and then he caught himself shifting into the first person.

Oh my God. Oh my God.

And then like, like the blood, the blood left his face. And then in that moment it was like, oh, I've just undone all of this work that we've— this like fake phony work that we've been doing for the past 8 weeks.

Wow.

And then I was like, wow, none of this was real. I walk out, I've wasted my time. He pulls out a little piece of paper, he's like, so I couldn't find anyone in New York who does this, but there is a guy in Trenton, New Jersey. And then I— and then my dad and I are like, oh, I guess I used to date him. But my dad and I were like, oh, I guess yeah, 'You know, I'll take the train out to Jersey every year to see this person.' Just trying to, like, swat this away. I was like, 'There's no way I'm ever gonna continue this.' And so I was, like, in the closet for, like, a year at NYU. But then, like, all these comedy nerds that I was friends with were like, 'You're gay.' And then by sophomore year, I was out.

So it all ended. But Bowen, look, we're not talking about the '50s here. We're talking about just a half a dozen years ago. Right. And it sounds like you— And— And you're in Colorado, which is progressive-ish, and you're great friends with your parents, it sounds like. I mean, notwithstanding the fact that they want you to go through conversion therapy, you're still, like, getting along with them and you're driving and you're bonding with your dad and blah, blah, blah. Like, how— I don't understand how all this can sort of match, because at what point— didn't you at some point say, yeah, no, guys, I'm— I am gay, I'm happy, and you love me and you're happy with me. And like, why are we trying to convert anything?

Right, right. They, uh— and we know it's not really a religious thing. Yeah. Um, for them, or it wasn't. Like, I think for them it was just this cultural thing coming out of China.

Yeah, yeah, right.

Yeah. Well, not even— it's not even on a political alignment. It's just them thinking like, oh, I don't want my child to have a worse, harder life. And sure, sure, for them, like, they And so what my dad kept saying to me was, speaking of like the straw mud hut sort of ethos, he was like, "Where I grew up, this doesn't happen. Like, there aren't people like this." And I was like, "No, there are." They just had no concept of it. And so they are both scientists, engineers. They think in terms of solutions. They think in terms of what can be done to change this.

And they had—

I understand.

I read when you said, you said, I read you said your dad, will still occasionally suggest you could try women, and you call it almost endearing homophobia.

So sweet. Isn't it so sweet?

That's so funny.

That is so funny. It's so nice.

Bless him. Um, are they— have you guys had the conversations of like, I guess it turns out there was nothing to really worry about, um, right?

That it was— oh yeah, yeah, great. I think we've, we've done the— we've patched it up really nicely. Like, they have apologized. I have I've always kind of understood where they've come from.

Yeah, it sounds like you had a lot of understanding of it, even early on, understanding that, like, A, you wanted to go to college, so you were doing it to kind of just go through the motions so you could go. But it does sound like you— I don't hint— There's no hint of any sort of anger towards it. You were like, "Yeah, I get it. I know where they're coming from." That's very kind. That shows a kind spirit, to be honest.

Yeah, yeah, I love that. So, I want to go back to, if you don't mind—

There's never a subject that Sean doesn't want to get away from. He's got his question. He's never happy where he is. He's always trying to leave where he is.

100%.

We're enjoying Bowen. We're talking to him. We're having a real conversation. No, I know.

Look, if you want, we can talk about being gay all day long.

No, I don't want to.

Whatever.

Shall I just go?

Okay, so the SNL screen test, we kind of covered that, but I want to talk about your—

so your first—

first you were hired as a writer at such a young age, which is amazing. You weren't even on camera. You were. And how old were you?

27? That's a reasonable age.

That's pretty young, though. And the first time you were on camera, which made me laugh, I laughed so hard at you playing Kim Jong-un.

Oh, thanks.

It was so fucking—

So good.

It was so funny.

Jason started laughing.

Oh my God, I gotta find that.

It was so funny. I mean, I loved it.

Thanks.

And then the one The first thing that ever went super viral was you played the iceberg— the— what was it?

Yes. The iceberg that sank the Titanic.

Yeah, the iceberg that sank the Titanic.

Yeah, Sean, the iceberg that sank the Titanic.

Which is so funny. What was it like? Tell me— talk to me about being a writer and then going, "Hey, you know what? We think you should be a featured player." And you're Kim Jong-un, and you're this iceberg that hit the Titanic.

The same sketch?

No, no, no. I don't know.

What was the same sketch?

It was him!

It was him all along.

What was the feeling like? Oh my— like, how nervous were you to be doing the thing that you set out to do on the first time?

So nervous. So what I remember from the Kim Jong-un thing was it was when Sandra Oh hosted, as you said. Yeah, that's right. I was a writer and— Insane.

Insane.

Insane. Insane. And so—

Well, just insane in synchronicity, etc.

Yeah.

You know, it's all very kismet-y. How was that conversation?

Conversation when you went— did you go up to her at some point and say, hey, so I just got to tell you really quick? Yeah. Did you tell her how much— what you're responsible for? Yes.

Okay, good.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, I would like do these pre-TikTok— I would do these things where I would just like, like just kind of match like on a lip flap perfect level, like the little like, uh— oh my God, whatever, recitals and monologs. And I did—

I saw you lip sync the whole, um, monolog from Devil Wears Prada.

I did that. I did. Yeah. So like, you gotta see it, it's unbelievable. I've scrubbed them. I don't know why I'm like so ashamed to see them now, cuz they're so like pre—

but it's incredible.

I don't know, they seem prehistoric to me. But anyway, but Sandra and I met before she hosted, and then she hosted. These other writers write— Streeter Seidel writes me into the sketch where I play Kim Jong-un. I don't have contacts at the time, and they don't put my prescription in the glasses that I wear, and so I had to be off book basically, which is not what you do at SNL, as you guys know. Like, uh, I just had to be off book. I had to to call a Korean friend, Karen Chi, who used to write at Seth Meyers. I was like, "Can you translate these lines into Korean for me?" Learned the Korean, was off-book on a foreign language.

Whoa.

Then it was just a million different things. And I had a sketch on that week that I had to be— I sat under the bleachers next to Lorne Michaels in the Kim Jong-un costume, getting notes. I'm in this Kim Jong-un costume, and he turns to me, he's like, "Maybe we cut to Keenan sooner," or whatever. I'm like, "This is the most surreal." That's still the most surreal week of my life. Pass the whispering angel.

Did you—

it's my favorite rosé.

My favorite. It's on ice. Uh, did you, uh, kind of must have been— was it weird being all the years you were there just knowing that you were the smartest person in the building? You're learning languages, you're memorizing.

No way.

I mean, come on.

No, no, no. I was no Colin. I was no economics major. I, um, he doesn't know—

does he know French and, uh, Korean?

You can't learn Korean and then memorize it.

Okay, so wait, now tell me about this. When when you, when you were 15, 15 years old, you were doing improv at bars?

Oh yeah.

God, is that true?

Yeah, but this is, this is so— that doesn't age well, I feel like.

I think that's fascinating. You gotta like— how did you, how did you get in? Like, for, for young people listening, it's like, oh, if you get doing like improv, but how did you get into the bars? What happened?

So there's a theater in Denver, uh, called the Bovine Metropolis Theater. I— it took me years to figure out. It's a play on Cowtown. Anyway, um, Bovine Metropolis. But anyway, you— they would, they would do like Monday nights, like kind of open mic situations. And, uh, our, our, our sponsor at the school, who is also my calculus teacher, this wonderful educator named Adrian Holguín— calculus, chemistry— I know, I know, stop it, you guys. All right, that's enough. So we, we— they would— it was awful. I don't know who who let their kids go drive into the city on Mondays.

I thought that was so interesting.

Yeah, but, but it was great. It was embarrassing. Like, like, we, we bombed constantly in front of people who did not give a shit if we lived. Like, like, it didn't matter if we did well. It was just about, like, it's that Chris Rock thing of just, like, bomb a million times and then you're just gonna succeed.

Right, right, right, right, right.

Where did your sense of humor come from? I mean, your parents, you say, are— they're both, uh, scientists, um, and— but maybe— are they super funny? I mean— No, sadly not. How did you develop it?

Was it just watching me? It was my sister. It was, "Guys, this is—" And I hope you guys can accept this or receive this. It's like, I think it was like, do you remember? Like, this is the value in, like, network comedies, right? It's like, it was everybody having the same frame of reference as to what was funny. It was like, it was watching you guys. Sorry to put you on a pedestal, but it was that. Yeah, take your time through here.

No, go ahead, don't finish.

It was, it was like, it was like going to school. It was going to school the next day being like, oh my God, you guys, did you guys watch Arrested Development? Or it was like, and Sean, like, after, after I did this thing, so Jason, my farewell sketch was, was with Cher, and I thought constantly, and I was constantly thinking back to Sean, Sean and Cher together, um, and it, it was just, I mean, like, that's just like peak guest star God, Shaun, I loved doing the gay stuff with Sherry.

Oh, thanks, so good.

Was that a moment for you when Will and Grace really hit their stride? And I mean, yes, there was a moment when Ellen came out. That was the big sort of watershed moment. But then Will and Grace, I believe, followed that, Shaunie? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And was that— did you feel a sense of like, "Well, there may be a spot for me. I might be able to just light my hair on fire and say, 'Yeah, I'm not closeted about anything. There is room for me and us.'" et cetera.

Yes, I don't know if I got that far because I'm telling you guys, like, I never— I would have been— if you would asked me right as I moved to New York, or like right out of college, if you'd asked me what my like ideal job was in showbiz, it would have been just to be in a room, just to be in a writer's room, right? I, I never placed myself in those things. And I don't know if it's, if it's about like, you know, representation stuff. It was more just about like, I'm good just knowing the inner works. I would like watch The Simpsons and like study the credits. Like, I was— it was, it was about that. It was like, that was the granular kind kind of comedy thing that I was working with. But watching Sean, I think it was about like, um, oh, this is the language, this is the vocabulary of like— or this is just a sensibility of what like gay queer humor is. Yeah. And then it turns out it's universal.

If I could do that and take what Sean's— what Sean's doing and just dial it in half, something good, some kind of future, like if you could just make it somewhat palatable. You know what I mean? And then you could—

I can only hope.

I can say that to the guy who's got 4 SAG Awards and Emmys and Tonys. I don't have 4. Sean, aren't you— you're like a— are you an Academy Award away from an EGOT?

No, I— but I— no. Mm-mm. I'm an ET.

Okay, you're Tony and you're Emmy.

And Olivier, so I have a toe.

Oh, and a SAG.

And a SAG. I have toes.

I have toes. Saggy toes.

I've said it. Sagittarius. We'll be right back.

All right, back to the show.

Um, wait, Bowen, so, but that— but Jason, if you haven't seen it, the— his, his last— Bowen's last, um, sketch, his goodbye sketch, was— took place in a Delta Lounge, and it was with Ariana Grande and Cher. And it was so clever how you wrote it, or how you and the writers wrote it, whatever. Whatever, that you— your wife calls you and— well, can I say? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You said— I forget what it was about, but it was eggnog, right? Yes.

And Ariana Grande was there. It was the Christmas show.

Yes. Yes. And she says, all the eggnog you've made over the years, some of it was great, some of it was rotten. And you say, and a lot of it got cut. And a lot of it got cut. Which is really cute and was very emotional. It was really clever. It was really clever to do it Delta Lounge. And you were saying it was It was— it's a little—

yeah, it's a kind of— it's obviously allegorical, metaphorical, whatever, but I was like, "Oh, something about departures." Yeah. "An airport. Great." It was the Christmas show. It was like, "Oh, something about—" Jason got it finally. Jason got it. I got it.

Just takes me a bit.

He's this old man who works the eggnog station, and then he's like, "Oh, eggnog, it's not for everyone, but the people who like it really like it, and they're my kind of people." And that's the whole message of it all. And then Cher comes out as the boss boss.

So yeah, it was really funny. That is sweet.

Um, what was— what was— talk— walk us through the, the, the thinking about leaving and, and, and, and the approach to that, the decision to that. Um, what, what the— what the next 5 to 10 years of your life looks like if you could program it. And, uh, you know, do you allow yourself to, to kind of make, make plans and, and strategize a bit?

Kind of. I don't— I don't know. I feel like I can't plan around like trade winds, I feel like things are just— things are just uncertain.

That is a great way to put it. Yeah. You know, I love that expression. Yeah, that's really good. I've never heard that before.

That's a fucking great way to say it. But to strangle the metaphor, you do got to put the boat in the water and point it one direction.

You know, you didn't strangle it, you sunk it.

No! It's a gorgeous boat. Where— what island would you like to arrive at? Yeah. You know, like, do you want to do— do you want to do, uh, do you want to— do you want to do just purely comedy? Would you like to get into drama? Do you want to do more acting, uh, more performing? More— what— where— where is your— where are you getting pulled right now?

All of it. I, I honestly— I'm sure you guys feel the same way— podcasting was never on the— was never on the menu, but it's taken up a lot of space. In a good way. I would love all of that. I think, just to go back to the Tradewinds thing, it's like, I don't— I'm honestly, like, thinking about where comedy lives right now. It's like, I feel like even at the Emmys, it feels like it's relegated to this place, even though I think comedy shows have this extra thing they have to do where it has to present something optimistic. Realistic about the world. And it's really hard to do that right now, I think. You know, it's like, I, I don't know, I was, I was just watching stuff. I'm watching comedies and watching dramas sort of in equal measure. And I'm like, the dramas are amazing, I love the dramas, but I think the comedies have this extra thing to do where it's supposed to reflect something back at you and also be like a nice— a thing that makes you feel good. Yeah.

Well, first of all, there's a, there's a lot of— it seems to sort of this trend of a of pieces of material that's not necessarily comedy that gets kind of grouped into that, under that umbrella. And I don't know how much comedy you do watch. I find that these days I don't watch a lot of comedy. I don't know if you guys do. I really just don't. I don't know if I'm missing it or it's just not the thing for— I don't know. You can probably tell by How boring I am. No, no.

Yeah, there's different— Seems like there's different reasons why comedy is not a big thing as it— Not as a big thing as it used to be.

Scripted, you mean? Like in that way?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's up for debate, but we need it now more than ever. What are the great—

I'm asking all of you. What are the kind of the great scripted comedies things that are out there right now? Yeah, that you would watch?

The Comeback? Yeah, Comeback.

That's pretty funny. Yeah, that's bad.

I mean, I love— Oh God. Yeah, it's hilarious.

Comeback. But even that, even that's a little bit, like, bleak. Like, it's like, "Oh, this season's about AI, and it's about how, like, the writers' rooms have, like, 2 people in them." Right. And it's like, "Whoa, shit. Like, this is different than it was 10 years ago when the last season was on." It's like, it just— It has these weird— And it just has this weird mirror that, like, is sad to look at. And that's what's hard. Right, right, right.

What about— I like talking about this, your dating life, because you said—

I'm bringing this down. The vibes are so good. No, I like it.

No, what are you talking about?

I love it. No, you're really making me think, Bone, because Sean, before we get into the dating life, you're really making me think about that idea that, like— And we want to get into your dating life. And we actually have some graphs. And fives. And we also— Your mom sent us some printouts. We printed out some stuff.

Some charts about some of your options, some of the female options.

But, well, but Willie, you know, but you said, but in a recent Esquire, but I read your Esquire interview, the What I've Learned piece, when you were reflecting, you said about work, you said, this is you saying it, you said you feel like you've hit critical mass where you did too much too soon or something like that, and, and, and you wanted to slow down and focus on quieter work. I, I get that, but just know that I don't feel— there's millions of people that don't feel that way about you.

Like, yeah, I take a lot more.

Yeah, there's so much more, you know.

Yeah, for real. I mean, drench me.

Jason, hang on, Jay, your mic went out for a second. What was that? Just so we can get it, guys, quiet.

Let's get it clean. Soak me.

Oh my God, Jason. I gotta say, Jason showing up to SNL was always like, everyone would sort of straighten up, be like, oh, Jason and I had a really nice intimate conversation. It was like, everyone was like, I think he's flirting with me. Jason's a charmer.

I like to get up nice and close. That place, I love that place so much. I just watched that Lorne documentary. It was really cool. I love it.

I haven't seen it yet. I'm tired.

So Bowen, because I've read this too, and I want you to only want what you want, but That you said it was impossible to date during SNL, and where you would go on a couple dates and then just vanish. Like, what's going on?

I would vanish. No, you would vanish. I put that on me. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's a self-call-in. Like, I just— I would get swept up in the show and the work, and like, it's just so hard to like put any stake in your own life, it felt like. But I mean, that's not to say that it's impossible to do. Now, now things are fine. Like, things are normal. I'm like still, still like unlearning so many things in a way that like I am grateful for. And I also mourn how my life used to be. Like, I do miss it so much. And I've been getting dinners and lunches with people on the breaks and like who are still there, and I'm like, oh, it's, it's nice.

And I have to say this because people are listening: it's okay to be single.

Why are you saying it like that? Why are you looking at me? You know, you know what I've never heard heard of.

And again, this is a guy that lives in a— oh boy, this list is long.

This list is fucking long of stuff that you've never heard of.

It's not common to hear about, uh, Saturday Night Live hookups and, and, and couples in, right, with the cast, right? I mean, or writers or whatever.

Gay thing? I don't think it's a gay thing.

No, what I mean, just in general, like, you know, like people, people who go to school together, like, that's, that's all you have, or just your classmates, is sort of like, you know, I went out with him last year and this year. Like, you don't hear about that on SNL, and you'd think that you would just based on schedule. Like, you don't have a chance to meet anybody else, really. You guys are in there all the time.

We're in there all the time. Oh, but I thought you were talking about, Jason, like, uh, intra-SNL hookups within SNL. People are— yeah, yeah.

I mean, castmates dating one another, or a writer with a castmate, or writers and writers, and— or you don't, right? I know.

And you think you would. You're right. I, I just wasn't— yeah, I, I didn't really encounter that, but I, I don't I don't, I don't feel like I missed out.

Yeah, yeah, no, not at all. I love that your, your Instagram handle is @faydunaway. That's your name on Instagram. I didn't know that until recently. I laughed out loud at that. I can't— first of all, I can't believe it was available.

I can't either, and I'm holding on to it for dear life. She wants to— I think she wants it back.

Um, how much time does your podcast take from you each week?

Uh, it It siphons from me like 6 hours a week, which is not that bad.

Right. And with your other—

fine. And with your other time, what do you—

what's the ratio between work pursuits versus personal, you know, just taking care of yourself? How hard are you working?

I'm working decently at like a reasonable intensity. I still am exhausted at the end of the day. Sure. I think I'm still kind of like— my nervous system is still sort of like resetting from SNL where it just knows work is done, then it's time to go to bed. Like, there was that switch.

But you have to now self-program. Like, there was a schedule. You had to be there a certain time, blah, blah, blah. Now you've got to do it all. Are you finding your self-motivation adequate?

Not yet. It's getting there. How do you guys do it? Well, we're old.

I'm very good about like when I'm working, I'm— I'm very, very disciplined. And when I'm not working, I could not be worse at doing anything responsible.

Yeah. Jason's one of my favorite quotes is Jason says, I want to aggressively do nothing.

Yeah. And then when I'm working, I'm an animal.

Well, actually, the truth is, and I mean this, when he's not working, he obsessively plays golf because it gives him something to do. Yes. And so he plays it. Plays it 5, 6 days a week. Yeah. And then he'll say to me like, hey, do you want to play tomorrow? I'm like, no. And he's like, I've got like one thing, but I can't do it all the time. Like, he has to do it because he needs that.

I have addiction issues, Bowen.

I'm much better. I find I'm much better when I'm not working at, at being able to just kind of chill. Like, I did my little stuff this morning, then kind of like go to the gym and kind of— I find it like easy to watch some soccer, take a nap.

Those are just saggy days though, right? Where you're like, it doesn't matter if you wake up at 8 or 11:30 AM. Like, those days are like, I feel like I'm being irresponsible to another day of life. I'm still up at 6 AM every day, right?

But yeah, good for you. Get the kids to school, all that kind of stuff you have to do. Kids give you that too, you know.

Um, so Sean's on a strict chocolate cake schedule, uh, that I do not stray from.

Yeah, that's got a mixing bowl 10:30.

Um, so really quick, what'd you have for breakfast today?

I, I had blood work done, so I couldn't eat. Uh, but then when I came home, I had— oh, now you were angry. I had a peanut butter sandwich. Sure.

Yeah, yeah, before 11 AM, that was a peanut butter sandwich?

Yeah. Yep. At 10:30. So great time.

There's no bad time for it. Not at all.

There's always a good time for peanut butter sandwich. So Las Culturistas, which is huge, just hit 10 years. 10 years. Amazing. They've been doing that podcast for 10 years. 10. Yeah, it's great. Congratulations. Yeah, that's huge.

It's really cool. What year are you guys on?

6. Half that. Yeah, yeah, we just— we're about to hit 6. Yeah.

Um, and then you have Cat in the Hat coming out November 6th with Warner Brothers, which is amazing. I love that. Bill Hader, Quinta Brunson. Did you see it yet?

No. I love it. I forgot that I'm in it.

I think that's gonna be huge. And then the last thing I want to do with you, which is So it's such a great thing you do on your podcast.

It's called—

oh, what is it called?

I Don't Think So, Honey. I Don't Think So, Honey.

Good show.

Which is similar to— who's that guy that Jason, you brought on, the taxi cab guy who films the subway? Oh, Kareem. Kareem. Kareem. It's a similar thing to what Kareem does, which is you have a thing. I don't want to put you on the spot if you don't have one, but do you have an I don't think so, honey?

I'm sure I do. I've got one.

Or your favorite one. I've got one. Okay, what is it?

Um, I don't think so, honey. Outdoor furniture. It's a scam. It is only meant to be dirtied. There's your— your cushions are flying all around. You got to like, right, bring down the umbrella. It's— there's the rugs get dirty. There's no maintenance on outdoor furniture, but we, we feel compelled. It is compulsory that we buy it to fill out our outdoor spaces, and yet it never esthetically looks pleasing. It's a terrible, terrible cycle. It's almost Faustian. I don't know how, but it's like we give up something We give up our— it's so— the indignation of outdoor furniture is terrible. And I know this is a very, like, champagne-problem-y thing to have, but it's just awful. We have to cover it when it's raining.

It should give you a power washer with it.

Oh, I love that.

That's a great take. Mine is— I just thought of this knowing you were coming on because it just happened to me yesterday— is pulling up to a parking spot where there's a meter, or trying to find a parking spot. Somebody comes out, they get in their car, so you put your clicker on because they're about to pull out, and they never pull out. They're on their phone. They take 20 minutes.

This is their time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't think so. I don't think so.

But you know what I think? Bowen Yang, you are brilliant. You are hilarious from the first time I saw you. Thank you for being here today. I love you guys.

I love that. You're a treasure. You're not just a national treasure. It turns out you're an international treasure of many countries.

Continent— continentally North America, the Commonwealths.

Commonwealths. Commonwealths. Thank you for being here, Bowen Yang.

Oh, Bowen, thank you, man.

Thanks, guys. And thanks, Bowen.

Yeah, I love it. Thank you. Nice going.

I know Jason hates an afternoon record.

I do. Oh my God, you're so right. You're so right. This is staying in. You made it worth it, though.

Keep it in. You made it worth it. You've changed my attitude about it. If they can all be like Bowen Yang records, let's do it then. That was really fun.

Thanks, Bowen. Thanks, guys. All righty.

Thanks, buddy. Bye. See you. Have a great rest of the day.

Bye. Oh, great.

I like him. I like him a lot. I want to be his friend. Yeah, I know.

I think we are his friend.

He's really funny.

He has any openings for friends?

I think so. I think he does.

I would— I would underperform.

I'm, I'm a terrible friend. Let's have dinner with him.

Yeah, he's, he's, he's one of those people that's super intelligent and super, um Um, funny. And I think the two often go hand in hand. Not in my case, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and then also, I think—

oh, sorry, do you want pushback on that?

Sorry. No, I don't want to. No, no, no.

I get better about going out to dinner, don't I? In order to be just a halfway decent friend, I need to actually get out of the house.

You go though sometimes. I mean, but I don't even take your phone calls.

I know, right? That's like, uh, you guys tried to FaceTime me the other day and I just wouldn't have it.

You know what happened? It was you and Josh. Willy? No, you know what happened today is the three of us were on a texting chain and then I stopped because I know you don't like to get pinged constantly.

Well, just build the paragraph and send that. I don't need 17 seconds.

But sometimes you need a conversation to go back and forth. So we're going back and forth with the thing we were all talking about and Sean's like, I feel bad because I feel like Jason doesn't want to get annoyed.

So I took you off and I just went to me and Will.

We have to manage. Manage Gramps. Really? Because he has a breaking point.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about if I'll just leave the conversation? I'll just hit that button if it gets too much. Well, what would you say?

Jason got so mad at me because he kept leaving Nerdle when we were doing a few years ago because he didn't want the full back and forth. And then I kept adding him back to the conversation. He's like, fuck off.

It's like the fish that wiggles off the hook and you keep gaffing it, pulling it into the boat.

It was so funny. I'd be like, guys, why watch this, and then I'd add him into the conversation.

That is so funny. Jason, what would you say if you left the conversation?

I would say bye. Bye. Smartless.

Smartless. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbacoa. Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjarff. Smart. Less.