Transcript of "Nick Jonas"

Good morning from both coasts. Oh, we're recording from both coasts there. Jason's still—

are we going to take a look at the weather first, or we going to get right down to the news? Feel-good piece.

You know, we're going to look at the weather. On the 3s, we're going to look at the weather right after this wonderful episode of Smartless.

Let's go.

Welcome.

Smartless. Smartless.

Smart.

Less.

Good morning, everybody.

Good morning.

Hi, Sean. Sorry, are you about to launch into something?

No. Hi.

Good morning.

Remember when Sean used to have a bunch of talking points prepared?

Oh yeah, I always do. I have them today if you want.

Do you really?

Yeah.

Do you have it written down on a piece of paper?

I jotted down a couple of things that happened.

Does Nick do it?

No, I do it just right before we sign on.

Does Scotty ever recommend or suggest, hey, you know what would be fun for you guys to talk about tomorrow? Ever?

No, not really. No.

All right, so what are the hot topics today?

Yeah, let's go for a hot topic for sure.

What do you got down there?

So my sister was here, you know.

Yeah, the Tracy listener. The Tracy not only exists, but she had a little stay at Shawnee's house.

Yeah, yeah.

And Jay, you called and she— I called and you talked to her and you two were spooning, right?

I mean, like, spooning in bed.

Yeah, Scotty, there's nothing weird about that.

No, you guys were, were cuddling.

That's fine.

Yeah, um, that's fine.

We could use— you know what, we could use more cuddling in this world.

We could. And maybe a little less gum.

Yeah. Yeah.

Every show. I know it's hard to remember because, you know, we do these like a week apart and then you forget a lot in 6 days. It's difficult. Is there like a nicotine cream? What about if you found like a cream you could just put on your shoulders or something?

Yeah. What about— yeah, is it like testosterone cream?

Oh my God.

That I've read about. Yeah.

So I've heard about that too.

No. Yeah.

Oh yeah. It's not working. It's not working.

I need to do a few more.

Clicks. Um, so Shawnee, hot topic.

So Tracy was here and we watched the documentary. You guys got to see this, called Trust Me, the False Prophet.

Wait, is this the one about the Mormon?

About it? Yes, somebody told me about it.

Well, no, it's not about the Mormon, it's about the Fundamentalist Church of Latter-day Saints.

Isn't that—

is that—

which is an extension of— it's, it's—

oh, I didn't know that.

Oh yeah, so Sam Bateman, right?

Yes, that's right.

I thought of you.

I'll bet you did.

Um, yeah, it's, uh, explain yourself, Jason. I do. Yeah, I don't know if there's a relation there, but I would guess that there is. I mean, our family is, uh, is out of Utah, so I mean, no, that was your—

that was probably your first tip, I guess, huh? Was that— was that what kind of got you going in that direction?

I'm not an experienced investigator, but those are, uh, two hot leads: name and location.

Nothing gets past you, dude. It's unreal.

Name and location. Um, so how is Sam doing, Jason?

Uh, I— yeah, I have not spoken to him for years. Um, no, I have no idea.

I haven't seen him since the family reunion.

But, um, but Amanda did, uh, actually just this morning say that she finished it, and she said it's really worth, uh, watching, that it lands the plane very well.

Yeah, it's sad and, and fascinating and all those things.

It's crazy. Well, you know, there's a Bateman that, that runs through, uh, that great John Krakauer book that, uh, that I, I optioned and produced that.

Under the Banner of Heaven.

Under the Banner of Heaven.

It's a great read. If you've never read it, it's a great read.

Yeah, it's really tragic. But there is a Bateman that goes through that, and I bet he's related.

You made that, right?

We did.

Yeah.

Yeah. How was it?

I got to watch that.

Andrew Garfield plays the lead in that.

Yeah.

How was it on FX? Great.

Be honest. How was it?

Yeah.

Oh, I got to see that.

I never saw it. I do want to see it. I loved that book.

Yeah, that book is—

that story, what's it like generally in one sentence?

There's these, uh, it's about 250 pages probably. These brothers kill, uh, kill another brother's child and wife, uh, because they say they got us— they got a sign from up above.

Uh, it's not fun. It's not a fun— it's not a fun—

wait, based on a true story? Or—

yeah, it's a full true story. But what's interesting about the structure of the book, yeah, every other chapter sort of, uh, it's telling the linear, uh, birth and progression of the religion of Mormonism. And you can see how— yeah, um, well, you can make your own decisions about, uh, Joseph Smith from coming from upstate New York and all that sort of stuff.

And then he sort of breaks that down in his way. But, but either way, either way, wherever you land on it, it is a kind of— I thought it was an excellent book. He's— God, Krakauer is something else. Yeah, he's the man.

Yeah, that—

yeah. Oh, Sean, sorry, one more. Sorry, let's get to the next topic.

Sorry, this one. So there you are with Tracy, you're watching the doc Are you worried that you just can't be yourself in the moment?

Sure.

Is that what it is?

No, we can totally. By the way, every day. Was that it?

You were just going to make a recommendation for media?

Yeah, that. And also, I saw— now that we're talking about documentaries, Jay, I finally saw the Apocaloptimistic.

Oh, yeah. The AI documentary.

Yeah, yeah.

The AI doc.

That was wild.

So what do you think? Are you— Bullish or pessimistic about AI?

Yeah, no, I can't be pessimistic. I can't. I can't. I have to believe just so I can get through every day that AI and us will work together and AI is not going to destroy the world.

That mankind will do the right thing when presented with an option to use this incredible technology for good or for bad.

I always believe humanity will win out in the end. Hey guys, you know, that is so good.

Speaking of humanity, I tell you what, you believe I—

wait, Will, are you about to get to the intro?

It's still me. Oh, sorry.

Wait, Sean, you had one more bullet point or not?

That was—

it was just cultural, um, recommendation.

Sean, we, we should mention it, uh, just, uh, our little, our little side menu, uh, or our little side thing, which is Sean's Menu, which is becoming our new— it's our new feature called Sean's Menu. Last night, Jason and I received a text in the chat and a picture of the beginning of a s'mores extravaganza on a Monday night.

Yeah, I'm not sure it was fully dark out yet though.

No, not fully dark, not in a beach setting, not on a vacation around a campfire, just a Monday night in Los Angeles.

Monday night. Yeah, regular dessert. It was a dessert.

Dessert was at 6:15, by the way.

Okay, keep going. And it was elegantly laid out on a plate with proper ratios of graham crackers, chocolate, and mushroom— or not mushrooms, sorry, marshmallows, um, there on the plate. Yeah, very dignified. Uh, like this is your s'mores kit that the chef laid out for you.

No, I did it myself. I was all alone. Scotty was out of town. I was all alone. I had So that was just for you? That was just for me, yeah. And I had 4 in a row. But wait, this is, this is the hack. This is the s'mores hack.

Oh yeah, tell us.

I take the chocolate and I microwave it so it's more like a sauce.

Yeah.

And then I pour the sauce onto the marshmallow.

Ah, you figured it out, motherfucker.

Yeah, so it's not like you're just biting into it.

Sean, why don't you just stuff it, why don't you just stuff it all in your mouth and then hop in a sauna and just let it melt in your mouth?

Okay.

By the way, that's not a bad idea.

All right, what are you doing? I'm making s'mores.

Most people go in there to lose some weight. Sean goes in there, really dive into the sweets, or to reheat any sort of food. Um, he'll just walk in there with his plate.

Fucking hell, man. Unbelievable.

See, why waste the wattage?

Well, while you were doing that, I'll say this. Our guest, Sean, you're gonna like this. He started performing on Broadway at the age of 7.

Really funny.

Okay. Yeah, 7 years old, starting on Broadway, and has continued on, on and off on Broadway amongst the other amazing things he's done, which have been— had multiple number 1 albums, chart-topping singles, uh, in a group, and also as a— with a solo career.

Hugh Jackman.

And incredible acting credits across film, TV, big studio movies, prestige TV, then returned to Broadway, been nominated for Golden Globes, headlined global tours, coached on The Voice, okay, and built a career that, that goes— that went from teen idol to serious actor, uh, to legit and legitimate musician all the way through, which is—

it's Howie Mandel, okay.

Uh, he's got his new— his new record came out February 6th, Sunday Best, uh, marking his first solo project in nearly 5 years. Please welcome to the show Nick Jonas, you guys.

Nick Jonas! Come on!

Yes!

You look nothing like Howie Mandel.

Or Hugh Jackman.

Well, give it time, give it time.

Hello, Nick.

Good to see you guys. Nick, what's up?

Good to see you.

This feels overdue.

What an intro.

That was great.

Yeah, it does. I mean, it's so insane.

I saw you at the Golden Globes. I know, that was so lovely.

We were backstage at the, the holding room for the presenters. My wife was, was presenting.

It's not a big room. It— that, that's not a big— one of the bleakest, most depressing rooms in Hollywood.

Yeah, yeah, way too small.

The ceiling—

I did enjoy listening to you guys rehearse though. It was a master class on, uh, and bit—

well, us three idiots.

And you guys crushed the bit. It went viral after. It was great.

Thank you.

Did we honestly rehearse?

You don't remember?

There's a little side room.

No.

At the moment, you ran it back like 6 times. It was great.

We did?

Yeah, yeah.

Just for timing.

And then I'll tell you, it was nothing like— just for time.

Just for timing. You got to do it.

Get familiar with the piece.

Didn't you think that Jason should have spoken up? He was a little soft on that one line.

That if we were still rolling, I'd go back and raise the volume a little bit.

Yeah, because you were turned away. The attitude was great and the performance was great. We just needed to hear it better.

Oh, cheers, man.

You know, people loved it.

It was great.

I loved it.

Cheers.

Thanks for having me, guys.

Yes, welcome, Nick, of the pod.

Dude, it is so overdue. It's, it's so overdue that you're here. And, and like I said in my— in the intro, as you go back and you look at all the stuff you've done from such a young age and how much incredible success you've not just had but continue to have, it's remarkable, man. It's so— it's so singularly like— that is so tough to do, and it's really— it's really a tribute to your talent. It's unbelievable. It's just that you've always, at everything you've done, you've excelled, and you've managed to sort of keep it— you know, you've done top-rated stuff, and that— and I wonder if, for you, do you— starting young like that, did you feel pressure, like, "I gotta keep this going"? Did you ever feel that pressure starting so young?

I think to a certain degree, yeah. You know, I started, as you mentioned before, on Broadway as a kid. Was lucky enough to do a few shows, and then it was actually a family friend that heard a song. Oh, does it sound bad?

No, no, family friend, those stories never really go well.

Oh.

I thought the same.

I'm on set right now, there's trucks behind me, so this one does go well. Family friend, he also happened to be our chiropractor.

He's like, "Oh, guys." We're gonna take a short break.

He, um, he told my dad, he's like, look, you know, I know Nick recorded this song, I'd love to play it for this guy who works at, um, works at Sony Music Group.

Did he ever— did he ask you to just relax?

Uh, thankfully, thankfully not. Um, but you know, started recording and, and then we got signed as a trio, me and the brothers. Um, and I think, you know, because we had We had sort of early in our career, um, had, had a big failure. Our first album did not do well. We got dropped by our first label. Oh God. It took, um, it took, you know, us finding a home with, with Disney and our partners there to kind of really, uh, step into the next phase. And I think that resilience came from that early perceived failure.

Right, right, right, right. Well, that's— yeah, I mean, did you have— am I right about that? First of all, I read somewhere that— and you tell me if it's true— that you were first discovered by a talent manager or pushed towards one when you were at a barbershop, like getting a haircut or something.

I was at a hair salon with my mom. Yeah, I was 6. And I was always singing before I was even talking. And she was getting her hair done. I grew up in Jersey, and so we're known for our hair salons, diners, bowling alleys, and that's about it.

Sure, sure.

Shopping malls. Yeah, so she was getting her hair done. I was just— I was singing. The woman next to her said, hey, my son is Gavroche on Broadway. I think your son could do it. You should go see this talent manager. So we went in to go see Shirley Grant.

Was it— was it Gaten Matarazzo by any chance? Didn't he play Gavroche on Broadway?

Uh, no, he played Gavroche later than I did, I think. Okay. I did it early 2000s.

Okay.

But basically went into this talent manager's office. Her name's Shirley Grant. Rest in peace, Shirley. She's got her walls lined with, like, you know, headshots of little actor kids, weird actor kids who look you in the eye and shake your hand really intense.

He's looking at you, JB. JB, he's looking at you. Did you notice that? He's looking at you.

And she started sending me on auditions, and that was kind of the start to my run doing shows.

That's so nuts.

So you played Gavroche in—

I played Gavroche.

Who's Gavroche? I'm embarrassed to say I don't know.

He's the kid that basically is the kind of narrator for— for the second chapter of the story, basically when Valjean—

have you seen Les Misérables?

Oh, oh, oh, oh, I don't know about that. He's the only kid in the whole—

spoiler alert— he gets shot in the head and he gets killed. And as a child actor, it's a dream role. You get to do the old snap of the head back and die.

It's epic.

I also played—

Wait, wait, wait, full sidebar pause. Have either— you have, you've just admitted. Have you guys ever been shot in a production, in a show or anything like that? You've had to get shot?

No. Yeah, I think I've bored you guys with my Little House on the Prairie story of getting shot. First time I ever got shot.

No, I've never heard it.

I was, what was I, 10, 10 or 11, something like that. First—

God, they're shooting a lot of kids in these productions. Okay, keep going.

Jesus Christ. First big gig. I'm playing this kid. Me and my older brother, we walk into a bank there in the little Western town, and it's in the middle of getting robbed, but we don't know that. We walk in, ding, ding, the door chime goes, and the bank robbers turn around and see these two little kids, and he fires and hits me right in the chest or the leg or whatever the hell it is. We shoot the rehearsal. Michael Landon's directing this episode. We shoot the rehearsal, so So I get shot and I throw myself against the wall. I slide down the wall, and when I get to the floor, I start shaking and quivering like one does because, you know, all you can see is in the movies and the TV. And then I slowly expire and all I hear is total silence. My eyes are closed on the floor and I just hear Michael Landon go, "Okay, we're going to cut." And he walks slowly over to me. I still have my eyes closed. I'm still in it. And he whispers in my ear, "Okay, we're gonna do another one, and this time I'm gonna want you to just collapse on the floor.

Okay?

Next time you get shot, I want you to just slowly just collapse and quietly expire. Here we go, everybody, back to work." I was so mortified and embarrassed. I mean, I was just, you know, vibrating and— throwing myself.

Sure.

Fucking terrible.

Sure. Oh, God bless you, JB. That's good.

You're feeling it.

So, so, so you do—

so you're gonna say after Gab— you said after Gabrasch, you played—

oh yeah, so I, I did my first show, I did A Christmas Carol, which is kind of a seasonal show, so technically not a Broadway show. But Annie Get Your Gun was my first show with Reba McEntire. I did it with Frank Langella, actually. It was pretty incredible. He played Scrooge. I was, uh, actual character name Scrooge at Eight, um, and I was the understudy. I was the understudy for Tiny Tim. And, and in the 8 years that this show had run, they'd never had a Tiny Tim cover have to go on, so they just didn't bother rehearse the Tiny Tim covers. And the year I did it, you know, again, my dad gets a call and they say, hey, um, Nick's gonna go on for Tiny Tim today, we got to get you here an hour before the show to do a put-in. So I rush over to the theater and basically run the 5 scenes that Tiny Tim has and the 2 songs. And, you know, I'm thrust— thrown out there for the opening kind of song. And literally my mind goes blank. 16 bars of just silence. Oh my God.

Yeah.

As the music's playing. This really intimidating conductor's there looking me in the eye. And it was a good entryway into live theater. You know, shit happens. You just got to roll with it. But as an 8-year-old, I was pretty mortified.

Um, Scrooge at Eight would be a good title for, uh, autobiography if you ever decide to write one.

I'm gonna write that down, actually.

That's a good idea. Wait, did that instill a fear in you about performing going forward?

Well, the conductor came up to me after, and I was expecting him to sort of scold me or something like a teacher would. Instead, he came down to my level and he said, "Things happen.

You just gotta keep going next time." He said, "We're just gonna drop to the floor." Yeah.

Yeah, just collapse.

We're just gonna collapse.

We're about to reset and expire.

And yet you're just gonna collapse and expire. Actually, I wonder if hearing you say that and Sean, your question, I wonder if it had the opposite effect of having that— You kind of mentioned like your first record wasn't the hit that you— It didn't go well, that you had that experience at 8 on Broadway. In a lot of ways, it probably galvanizes you. 'Cause if you can kind of get through that at such a young age— Yeah, yeah. Right? In a lot of ways, you kind of go like, "Well, fuck, I've done that already." Like, you know, otherwise you're waiting for that moment your whole life. Like, "When is gonna be the time that I'm gonna completely bottle it in the moment?" You know?

Yeah, and I've had a few of those too, later on. Sure, sure. Moments that certainly didn't go— the way I hoped. But yeah, I do think that that early— those early experiences helped kind of create a foundation that led to me not losing it.

Yeah. Yeah. What about the things that went way better than you thought they were going to go at an early age? Like, for instance, you know, the, the, like, the incredible fandom of, like, all of these, like, girls screaming at you, even at an age where you might, like, you you're just starting to, like, get all crazy about girls. And, like, has— is that sort of thing, now that you're an adult and you have— you've managed to weather the transition between sort of, like, teen idol into an adult, you know, professional actor, performer, et cetera, um, you know, how does all that stuff kind of transition for you in your head about, you know, how much of it is real, how much of it is just part of the job? What do you do with all that sort of, like, that ego surplus and, uh— You know, because it's all kind of junk food to a certain extent, and like you got to figure out where to place it all, right?

I guess. Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, I always think it's funny when people, uh, frame an answer this way, so, so forgive me for doing it, but I think, you know, one of the biggest misconceptions about us— and odd to acknowledge your own perceived misconception, sure— um, but it was, was that because we worked with Disney and the core of our demo was you know, primarily teens.

Yeah.

Um, that, you know, there's no way this music came from an honest source, or, or that it came from us even.

Right, right, right.

And it was a really bizarre thing to sort of, you know, be in a spot where at 13, 14 years old, uh, I was, I was experiencing all the things you're talking about— first love, first heartbreak, real big, you know, human emotions that I was able to put into song in a way that spoke directly to that audience. And when you ask about, like, what's something I thought went incredibly right, it would be that. The fact that our dad raised us on this great bed of classics. We discovered our own kind of sound and found our own voice creatively. And I had this outlet that both helped me process these big feelings but also connected in a way that— And frankly, now, you know, we play these songs 20 years later as men and dads and husbands in our 30s. It's even more resonant with the audience because they've grown with us. And tracking that over time has just been the most fascinating thing and pretty special, to be honest, you know. Mm-hmm.

And we will be right back.

And now back to the show.

You mentioned that your dad raising you on those classics and musically. So what was that? Who is the person? Did they discover that you had a talent for music that kind of came from you or your parents? Were they musical in that way? Was that something that came from them?

Yeah, our dad is a really gifted musician. He's a pianist, a vocalist, and he was actually a pastor when we first started. We lived in Dallas for a bit where I was born, and then we moved to Jersey and he became a senior pastor at this church there. And music was always a part of our life. And, you know, I think my latest album, Sunday Best, came out in February, really kind of musically speaking, not so much lyrically, but musically touches on some of those early very musical roots in the church. But the thing is that he also really educated us on everything else— the, you know, Bee Gees, the Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Carole King, all the greats. And we had, you know, a real sort of deep dive musical education, uh, by way of those hour-long drives from our house in Wyckoff, New Jersey to the city to go perform in shows there. And, um, eventually, you know, we, we left the church, or were sort of pushed out because our music wasn't Christian music, right? And so some of the people in leadership there were upset about that and thought that we were sinning.

Um, we took a different path.

Yeah, he was looking at you, Sean. He was looking at you.

Yeah, no, I got it.

Sean, you want to talk about the time that you wack off in New Jersey? Okay, so listen, listen, uh, to start, yeah, um, but that's— so, so you had all this music and then you start And then you start acting, and you have consistently gone back and seamlessly back and forth between the two and sometimes the marriage of the two in musical, like on Broadway. And then—

Yeah.

And then doing serious acting roles and doing all that stuff. And is there one— I mean, you don't have a lane. You have— You're occupying multiple lanes at the same time. And how do you approach that? Do you have, like, an approach like, "Well, now this year I want to spend more time making music," or does it just kind of flow?

It just kind of flows. And as, of course, you all know, the lead time for a film or TV project is so much longer, you know, than the turnaround time we can have in music. I could record a song this afternoon and then, if I wanted to, put it out this evening.

Yeah.

But there's so many people that have to weigh into, you know, how something gets made on the film and TV side, which is something that is sort of new for me, you know, on the development side of things. Um, I always love hearing you guys talk about your process with development and, and, you know, kind of what that's been like, because the last, I'd say, 6 years, kind of during and post-COVID, um, outside of touring and music and all that, that's been a really exciting thing, is to, to sort of do my best to, to forge a path where I am a little bit more in the driver's seat than I've, I've been in the past.

Yeah. Yeah.

Um, been really fortunate to be a part of some great projects, but when you can start to develop things that you feel like are the right next steps for you, and you're, you're more in a sort of position to, to make decisions. It's a really empowering thing.

How are you finding your, your— like, just to sort of follow up further on Will's, uh, question there, like, are— when— what, what do you, what do you find is drawing you more towards acting at times, and what's putting you more in a music mood? Um, is it, um You know, is it, um, money? Yeah, well, I mean, but right, there are certain drugs. Like, are— I guess the question behind it all is, is what, what is the difference in creative fulfillment that you find between acting and music? You know, what is— what's, what's touching you, you know, in your, in your, in your most core place, um, versus some other place. I don't know.

Yeah, I think that honestly, becoming a father— we have a 4-year-old— um, that really changed everything for me as a creative, um, both on the music side and as an actor. And, um, I've always loved acting, and, and I, I've kind of bounced between, you know, uh, things like Jumanji, for instance, which is very big and fun and exciting and incredible cast. And then smaller things, you know, the $1 million movie, right? The thing that you just kind of grind. And I love both and think that it's amazing to kind of have that range. And on the music side, you know, The Driver is the, the fans, truly. And I'm not just saying that. It's, it's, it's bizarre to get to do anything for as long as we've, we've now been fortunate enough to do, especially with the way it kind of began, you know, with— there is a, a reality to the fact that, that teen fans or, or that sort of heartthrob label can, can be a challenging thing to, to step out of, right? Yeah. And I think my— our daughter and the experience that I'm having with her have me way more connected to the words I'm saying, no matter what they are, and kind of my worldview and everything else.

So I can't really say one thing is more inspiring or exciting, but actually looking at the world through her eyes, in a sense, gives me just a better perspective and a deeper, you know, sort of angle on what I want to be doing.

Well, and you've also had the, you know, Part of your experience has been, a big part of it, on and off, has been continuing to work with family, right? To work with your brothers on and off. I mean, that's a very— that's also very unique. And in addition to your solo work as a musician, and then your solo work, if you will, as an actor going from project to project, one of the sort of the— one of the through lines has been what you've created with your brothers. And I wonder, is that something that you like? Is that something that feels good as a sort of a steady thing that's always there that you can kind of lean on, that idea of that family and you guys doing that stuff together? What's that experience like?

Yeah, it's incredible to get to do, you know, anything with the people you love and to share in those experiences. And, you know, we also— had a moment where it wasn't good. You know, we've had that, that chapter of the journey too, where we had to basically say, let's, let's not do the music together anymore, work together, so that the, the family at, you know, the table can, can still all be there and love each other.

And, and, um, you know, I think it took us sort of going through that, that season and coming out the other side in a healthy way Yeah, because you guys went through, like, you know, the period in everyone's life of change that happens between the ages of, like, 15 and 20 is massive, you know? Like, and that was the— you guys were just tied at the hip during those years, yes? Or, I mean, what—

Yeah, absolutely. It was, you know, it was both good and bad. There are times I look up and I look at— folks who, who went through similar experiences to us, who, who were on sort of a solo journey.

Yeah.

Um, and didn't have that built-in support system, uh, because we would check each other too, you know, which was, which was important to the dynamic, and also be a shoulder to lean on when there was, when there was tough times and, and frustrating situations to navigate.

Yeah, I mean, you want to change so much, right, during those years. You kind of like, you try on these little outfits. I mean, Willie, we're seeing it with our kids, right, during those ages. Like, you're kind of like you're kind of flexing a little bit and seeing, like, kind of like what kind of young adult you want to become. And if you've constantly got a sibling there, that's why siblings fight so much, is that you're always calling each other bullshit, you know? And like, oh, just stop with the face, or with, oh, nice, nice outfit, or what's going on with your hair?

I was thinking about— I was thinking about this with us, like, as you were saying it. And obviously it's, it's, it's very different, but the three of us, uh, Nick, in this way, have— you're like brothers. Yeah, we've been friends for a long time.

We're settled into who we're gonna be.

Yes, but But at the same time, we check each other all the time. I FaceTimed with both of you yesterday. Yeah. I was gonna do this thing on Thursday, and Jason's like, "You gotta play golf with me. I'm leaving. I'm going to New York. You have to move that thing 'cause I'm leaving and I'm not gonna be able to play for a while." I was like, "Okay." And I called the guy I was gonna do it with. I go, "I have to go 'cause Jason's leaving, and I have to play golf with him the day before he leaves." And he goes, "I think it's so sweet that you guys still wanna hang out with each other." And I hadn't even occurred to me. Yeah. But I get it. You guys are my constant in that way. Like, you're my thing that we come back and get to do this together in that same way. And we— So I can kind of relate to that. It's different. Again, I'm not—

And you also— You guys are probably as fiercely protective as we are about maintaining the harmony because it does take some diligence. We don't talk to each other about, like, you know, "The effort I made to avoid a conflict with you." Like, no, you gotta take care of that shit internally and make sure that you're being— the right partner to keeping everything like any family. Yeah, like any family, any relationship, you got to do your part.

Yeah. And you got to also talk a decent amount of shit to the people you love.

You have to be balanced, which you guys have in spades.

Wait, Nick, is there anything as far as your music goes? I was thinking about this when Will was kind of touching on this too, and you were speaking about it. Is there anything How do you determine of your personal life what to share in a public forum through art? You know what I mean?

Yeah, it's a good question. There are things that— Thank you.

Even a stop clock tells the right time.

Yeah. No, he's got nominations to back it up.

Yeah, he sure does. Interviewer of the Year.

Yeah, I don't think— did he win?

He did not win.

Did not win. He did not win that.

No, he did not win.

He didn't win until he got to the co-host, uh, uh, version of the nomination.

And then, uh, we won.

Yeah, congrats. There are things that I, that I feel, you know, are, are probably better to just keep private, you know, and, and, yeah, or find a different way to say it. Um, but I, I, I have lived a lot of my life, you know, in the public eye, right?

So yeah, no shit.

It would be odd to not acknowledge some of the things that are already known about me.

Right, so you write these lyrics, you know that you— I mean, a writer only writes what a writer knows. So I'm assuming that your feelings, your emotions, your stories come from your life experience. And then oftentimes you want to sort of explore this through a song, but you're afraid the public might sniff out who that person might be. So you kind of change a name, maybe even change a gender, change who you are, change the— Oh, right. Or make it a metaphor, right? Like all of a sudden it's about two dogs in a park or whatever. Like, right.

What an imagination.

Yeah, thank you. So is there a little bit of like a concoction going there sometimes when you're writing out lyrics?

There is, yeah.

And, you know, are you ever a puppy?

Oh my God, enough with the dogs in the park.

Ever a puppy or a kitty?

That's actually what the entire next album is about.

It's, um, fucking Nick, please write a song about two dogs in a park. I honestly—

I'm gonna figure it out. There's got to be a way.

And then look over there.

I'll show it to you first. You can premiere it on the pod.

Yeah, but it— but truly, yeah, it must be hard to decide how to do that.

Yeah, I mean, I think that it's always fun to think of, of a different way to, to say a thing. Um, And to, you know, to throw a metaphor in there, but also, you know, to just say the truth is so empowering.

Instead of like they're just sniffing each other, you know, they actually take each other out on a date.

Oh my God. Oh my God.

The song's writing itself right now.

Fuck, this is never going away. Uh-huh. Yeah, I mean, have you ever had— well, then conversely, have you ever— written a song and then had questions about it, or it felt like people misinterpreted it? Like they think that it's about something, you're like, "Oh no, it's not about that." That has happened a few times.

And then the other thing that happens is that, you know, in the year 2026, there's only so many notes left. There's only so many songs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

When we first started putting music out in the early 2000s, on any given, you know, Friday release day, there would be, uh, anywhere from 30 to 50 new releases. There are now thousands, 3,000 to 5,000, somewhere in there, releases.

Oh my God, every Friday.

I've known an unknown artist, like, about anybody.

Yeah, I mean, there's just so much music out there, which is both incredible, and we, we love that there's so many people that are creative and, and that there is you know, new pathways for people to independently release music, all these things. But the landscape has just changed so much. And so as writers, we have to adapt as well. And musicians, you know, you've got to find a new way to cut through.

And this is—

this is— it's 3,000 to 5,000 now. And then in a couple of years, you're going to have all the AI groups releasing stuff. You know, these labels— labels will probably just have certain groups that are fully AI, right? How do you feel about that? Have you—

This one goes out to my mother.

Um, have you played around with, um, like, just get like a first draft of a, of a song, or, or like whether it's lyrics or melody, to see what AI can give you on just, just on just a first pass that you then would change to make your own? I mean, any kind, any kind of art, I think AI, uh, I hear can give you a first sort of pass at it, as opposed to— because the hardest thing is creating something out of nothing, right?

And I, uh, so about 25 years ago or whatever it was, 30-ish years ago, probably not that far back, let's call it 25, I don't have the exact facts, uh, there's the introduction of Auto-Tune, right, or into the music-making process.

Tell Tracy what that is.

Before that, there were, there were little, little tricks you could do to, to basically take the, the pitch of a singer and just bring it slightly back in tune so that it just sounded better, right? Um, and then there's compression, which is another tool that's used. So as, as, you know, modern music making, much like film and, and TV, started using the technology available to them, it, it evolved, it changed, and, and it became a part of the process, you know, to where now hearing a song without Auto-Tune to your ear would, would probably sound odd or just slightly pitch correction.

Rough.

Rough, or, you know, unfinished, or raw.

Or more real.

Or more real, exactly. My thing as it relates to the AI conversation and the creative process is that it is inevitable that this thing that is available to everybody will be used in some way, and there will both be good and bad examples of how it's used. But I believe that the lived experience, the human experience cannot be replicated, right? And certainly, you know, songs about dogs sniffing each other's butts in the park could only come from, from great minds, human minds, right? Um, all right, so, but it's, it's a really interesting conversation because it's happening, you know, in the circles I run in LA with other songwriters and, you know, and script, uh, screenwriters Um, it's, it's, it actually— and this isn't to like bring up the thing, but I, I have this movie coming with Paul Rudd in June.

Yeah.

Which is all about my character basically, effectively, as artists. He's a sort of former pop star, boy band artist who, uh, is at a crossroads in his career. He wants to go to that next level, and he meets Paul in a happenstance situation at a wedding that Paul's wedding band's playing at. And, and basically I steal—

I like it already—

I steal this song from him and it becomes a global smash. Oh, and he doesn't get the credit.

And then he comes after you.

And he comes after me. It's a really fun movie. John Carney's the director. He's one of my favorite directors. And, um, Paul's incredible in the movie. And but the, the basic kind of like hook of it is always had me when I first heard the logline, and then when I read it, I was just blown away. But it asks the same question, I feel like, that some of the AI conversation asks. Like, what is this idea of ownership, of truth and accountability and all these things? And, you know, I'm excited for people to see it because it will leave you with a lot of questions.

Yeah, I love that.

I love that. That sounds really good.

I think we all— they're all— everything around this topic feel like just open-ended questions because we just don't know. And we don't— we're all trying so hard to figure out where it's going to end up, and we're spending all our time time just spinning our wheels going, "What's it going to be? Is it going to be good or bad? Is it going to be this or that?" And I guess we just— that's the frustrating part. We have to kind of surrender to we don't know yet, you know?

Yeah.

What kind of— I'm curious, what kind of music do you listen to? Like, if you— if I were to turn on a playlist that you had right now, like, what's the kind of stuff that— and I'm sure it varies like everybody, like you go through phases and stuff, but do you have any kind of like specific genre or something that you always find yourself going back to, or artists that you really—

I, I have a few, you know. I've got— I, I make playlists that are, are, um, themed. So I'll do like a, a Nepo Babies playlist, and it's anyone that's related to—

that's funny—

another famous musician. And it starts a good debate of who is the more famous musician of the two, which is a fun one. Or great songs with key changes. So when me and my friends get together, we sit down, have a couple drinks, and we, we all like pass the phone around and add to these playlists. Oh, that's fun. That's really cool. Yeah, it's a fun game to play with, with your friends if you ever want to do it. Uh, and then outside of that, Django Reinhardt, um, is a gypsy jazz guitar player. Just really puts me at ease. And like, it's always playing in our home along with, you know, my, my wife Priyanka is Indian, and, and I've learned so much about the Bollywood film scene and Indian film as a whole and, and the music from those movies and really come to love So those are kind of my tentpoles.

We'll be right back and back to the show.

This is such a hard one. I don't know how I'd answer it. Who's your favorite? Do you have a favorite band of all time?

Yeah, favorite band of all time.

I know what yours is.

Well, what is it?

It's Built to Spill.

Built to Spill is up there, but it's not number one.

Oh, is it? What's the French fusion band you love? Is it The Smiths?

Smiths is my number one band of all time.

I love that.

What about your French fusion? What's it called? The French-Canadian fusion band that you just go twat on and on about?

No, he's not French-Canadian.

Oh, Bon Iver.

Bon Iver is not French-Canadian. He's from Wisconsin.

That's close. It's close and it's a French name.

Bon Iver is amazing, right?

Do you love Bon Iver?

Oh, love, love. He's incredible. Justin Vernon and those guys.

I think I turned you on to them, Will. I mean, it was an earlier early adoption.

Sean Carey, who plays with— when Justin Vernon, when they were doing Bon Iver, Sean Carey's got a beautiful voice. And the two of them, there's a version if you want to, um, it means good winter, so it does, but without the H. There's a song they released, they did it live in a studio, and you can go look it on YouTube. And it's, uh, Justin Vernon and Sean Carey on dueling pianos, and they're doing Bon Iver's I Can't Make You Love Me. I Can't Make You Love Me. It's one of the most incredible performances. JB, make fun of it as much as you want. You'll never understand it, okay? You have the heart of AI. You have the heart of—

I will not lie.

Jason, as I was saying, Jason has the personality of a Waymo driver. So— But you— Nick, check it out. Check it out. Those guys doing I Can't Make You Love Me. It's absolutely heartbreaking.

But yes, I want to know his answer.

I know. What's your favorite band?

Do you—

would— if you had—

oh, I mean, it's the Beatles, you know, of course.

Okay, sure.

Okay.

Um, and then the Bee Gees. I love the Bee Gees. Um, there's a band called Switchfoot that, that we love. Um, they were really influential for us. They had an album called A Beautiful Letdown, 2003. It's like San Diego Um, you know, surf, kind of like just, just a rock kind of— it's that punk pop emo rock thing that—

yeah, yeah, yeah, we'd love.

But yeah, the, the Beatles, I think number one.

Sean, you got a favorite band?

Well, The Smiths is really, really, really, really high up there, but probably Depeche Mode or Erasure or New Order, all the, all the European synth pop of the '80s and '90s. I listen to it every day still.

Bronski Beat, Erasure.

Yes, all those.

Yeah, what's the best concert concert you've ever seen? Oh, me?

Uh, probably Depeche Mode.

I mean, Depeche Mode.

Yeah. Only because— yeah.

JB, best concert you've ever seen? JB and favorite band? Radiohead. We know what it is. Radiohead. Yeah, yeah. Radiohead. Radiohead.

Yeah.

I think the best concert I ever went to was like 19— I want to say '85, and it was the Violent Femmes and the Pogues in a double bill.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah, it was sick.

Where'd they play?

Uh, in Toronto.

Toronto.

Yeah, I grew up in Toronto.

Great concert city.

Is it, is it a great, is it a great concert?

It is. You know, one of the most asked questions on a golf course when I'm like playing with, with some guys that I, I don't really know is always, what's the, what's the best city to play in?

Yeah.

And, and it's, I, so it's Toronto. Yes. Mexico City. Montreal. Great concert city.

Great town.

Uh, Barcelona.

Wow.

And Brazil. I mean, anywhere in Brazil. Like, it's just—

wow.

Listen, shout out to Toronto. I just want to say to all my— all our Canadian listeners, we love you so much. And our friends at RBC. Wait a minute, but Nick, by the way, not a paid ad, not a paid ad.

I, I'm from, uh, I'm from a little tiny town called Glen Ellyn, Illinois, and you played at the Village.

Shout out. It's just a NetJets trip away. It's a NetJets trip away. Okay. That's— it's the easiest way to get around, you know. But wait, did you guys go to the Masters this year?

I did not.

I went last year. Yeah, were you there this year?

No, I missed it. I'm up in Vancouver right now. I'm speaking of Canada.

Is that right?

And, uh, and I couldn't go, but my brother Joe and I, we first went to the Masters back in, uh, 2017, 2016 or '17. Um, whatever the Sergio Garcia year was. I think it was—

oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then we kind of made a tradition of it. We would go on Saturday night or Sunday morning and, and do Sunday.

Well, it's a tradition. It's unlike any other.

And, um, you know, speaking of that, Jim Nance is— he's kind of been a family friend for a while. Um, he, he's come to a lot of shows with his daughter. They have like a connection of coming to our shows together. It's really sweet. And she's now now, you know, married, and, and, um, it's, it's a beautiful thing. Anyway, he, he let us come into Butler Cabin and, and watch his intro a few times. And, um, and, you know, I was there the year Tiger won, but I missed it this year. And I think I've seen you from afar at the Masters one of the years I went. And just one quick golf story, and sorry to, to bore you. No, um, I did this—

we're all in—

I did this commercial deal with, uh, Jordan Spieth for, um, for AT&T.

Yes, yes.

And as a sweetener for the deal, yeah, they were like, hey, um, we're gonna get you on to play on the Monday after the tournament.

Oh, right after.

So I got to go and play Augusta.

How'd you score? How'd you score?

I'm not playing to it now, but at that point I was, I was a 7. Um, wow. And the conditions were brutal. Uh, but I shot an 84.

Very good. That is really good.

You play their tees?

No, no, they had us— they had us up.

Yeah, JB, don't be— that's a devil.

I mean, I don't know things.

I went— I went and embarrassed myself. I went with the Manning brothers about a year ago, just over a year ago, and I really stunk up the joint. I finally got it— kind of got it together, but I really stunk up the joint.

But you got to see—

I feel like they could be— they could actually be like real working actors now, the Manning brothers. They're very funny.

Peyton Manning, he knows this, I've said I've embarrassed him many times, he's the, he's the greatest working athlete, uh, former athlete actor of all time.

Yeah.

Um, we're diehard Giants fans, so we had a couple of great years with Eli.

And, uh, we love Eli too.

We love Eli. Legend.

Sean, you okay?

Yeah, Sean just tuned out more than ever. He's just, he's still coming off his high from last night. He had a campfire. I don't know if you knew what Hancock Park did. Old campfire, uh, campfire for one.

I was gonna ask you, because I was listening in before we jumped on, can— how, how does that work, the, the campfire outside in California?

It's over—

it's in the oven. When I made my s'mores, it's on the stove.

Oh, okay.

I was like, that seems really dangerous.

If the gas is shut off, he'll just go in the sauna, as we'll explain.

Yeah, so you'll just You're just standing there jackassing it over an open flame in your kitchen on the stove.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

What are you eating standing up?

Like, you absolutely standing up and then make the next one. That's right.

While your fingers are now sticky in there.

Totally.

All the way. I'll bet you've got the phone. I bet you're scrolling through your Instagram while you're next to the stove.

No, I was listening to The Smiths, actually, last night.

Were you really?

Yeah.

While I was listening to The Smiths off your iPhone, alone in your kitchen, making s'mores over your gas range. That's right.

That's right.

That's right.

Fuck you. I'm gonna start crying.

Fuck you.

And you're in slippers and like pills.

Yeah, I'm in slippers.

Totally.

It's just disgusting.

Wait, Nick, we do have to get you— you have to come play golf with us. I don't know if you heard, Jason's leaving, so we can't play for a while.

He told us first.

Have you guys had Kevin Hart on the podcast yet?

We have.

We have, yeah, on the live show.

So he's, you know, newly obsessed with obsessed with golf.

Is he?

Yeah, I just finished up on, uh, the number 3, Jumanji, and, uh, right, he was, he was literally scrolling, you know, just watching golf videos and practicing his swing with like this contraption. It's like a thing that simulates like a golf— I don't know, it's— it was very cool. I find it on—

was this over in Hawaii?

Hawaii and some in LA as well.

And so in Hawaii you played some yummy courses, I'll bet.

Those are yummy.

I didn't, uh, I didn't have a chance to. I brought, I brought my I took my daughter out with me and my parents. My wife is shooting in India, so I brought her out. And I did the dad stuff. We did, like, the dolphin— swimming with the dolphins. Nice.

They have a Kahala Hilton?

Yeah, I think so, yeah. And they have a Disney hotel. And so, you know, she went and met Moana and all. It was great. I sacrificed the golf for the dad.

Talk to me about India.

India.

How, how is India? Yeah, what, what— I've never been there. I, I, I'm desperate to go.

I'm so desperate to go.

You should bring the podcast there and do it. It'll be—

I—

we should do that.

That's a great idea.

Smartless goes to India.

I've been— I bought— I watch a little bit of, um, uh, Indian— this is true— Indian Premier League cricket from time to time.

Oh yeah.

And, uh, there's this new kid, he plays— I forget what— yeah, the IPL. This kid, he's 15 He's like this total Indian team. He plays for one of the teams. No, he played— well, I don't know if he's playing for the national team yet. He's playing for one of the teams in the IPL right now. This kid is having— I actually watched the game where he was out after one run, but this kid is like an absolute sensation. He's 15 and everybody else is way older. Yeah, he's sensational. I love cricket.

You think the audience is hanging on to this particular section about the Indian Cricket League?

I don't know.

You think they're fucking tuning in?

In India they are.

Let me tell you something, Ariadna, how to hold an audience is something.

Jason just straightened himself.

Uh, well, yeah, you should, you should go to India. My— so Priyanka's been shooting there this movie, um, by the director that did, uh, RRR. It was his, was his last film.

Oh, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, that, that was— that got a lot of great notice.

Yeah, big Indian kind of epic film. And she's, she's not done a movie there in, in about 8 years, so it's a big, big deal, her return. You know, she did 80-something movies before she started No, that's crazy.

Yeah, it's an enormous industry over there.

Over 80 films?

Over 80 films.

Yeah, she's 75 years old, Will.

It's a really—

it's a fascinating thing though, you know, the, the way in which they— the Indian audience reveres their, their film talent, their stars, is, uh, it's like unlike anything I've ever seen before. And it's an obvious— it's obviously an enormous audience, you know, over a billion people in India. And then globally, the reach is so big, and there's a bunch of projects that are really starting to make a huge impact globally now as well, which is exciting to see.

The culture there, I, what I've— I hear that weddings are a major thing. Um, did you guys have, uh, a bit of an, of an Indian wedding, or, or no?

We did. So we, we were friends for about a year, um, before we started dating. And then once we started dating, it all happened very fast. We just both just kind of knew. So, you know, first real date was in May, and then by July we were engaged, and then and married in December the same year.

Wow, that's awesome. Well, how did you guys meet?

We had a mutual friend who kept saying, uh, You know, you guys will really hit it off. I'm gonna connect you. And he never did. And I got frustrated waiting. And I saw a billboard of her on Sunset Boulevard for her show Quantico. I was like, you know what, fuck it. I'm gonna see if she follows me on Twitter.

And she did. Ah.

Wow.

Wow.

And so I messaged her and we went back and forth for a bit. We met for a drink, just kind of casually in New York. And it took, you know, a year or a year and a half for us to really say, all right, let's separate the time in our schedules to just like give this a go. Go on a date and see what happens. And so we did, and it was literally, you know, instant, and, and we both just kind of knew.

Yeah.

Um, so flash forward to the wedding, um, we decided to do it in India, and we were scrambling to, to find a place to do it because we had spoken to, uh, Priyanka's mother's, um, pundit, her, her spiritual guide and astrologer, and, and they had said that the best window, the most auspicious window, would be in December. Um, so we're like, all right, we got to find a wedding venue. And she showed me this video of this commercial that she had shot at this, this place, this, this palace in, in India. Um, and she was like, there's no way this would ever be available, but when I shot here 10 years ago, I said I want to get married there someday. Oh, and so her friend who was with us, uh, her best friend and her best friend's husband And he's like, let me just cold call them right now and see if they're available for these dates. And he stepped out of the room and he came back about 10 minutes later. He goes, they're available. It's the one weekend this entire year that they have available for a wedding.

Wow.

How crazy is that? So yeah, we did, we did, uh, what's called a sangeet ceremony, which is the first night. Basically, it's a really fun, um, tradition where the families— the whole thing is about not just the couple but introducing the families and integrating them together. And there's the spirit of competition that comes along with Indian weddings. So you basically do a performance and you battle, and the family that wins the performance is the more dominant family. So on her side, you have, like, her, a global Bollywood icon and Hollywood star, along with a bunch of her cousins and other folks in her family who are also Indian film stars. And then on our side, you've got the motherfucking Jonas Brothers. Heyo! And our friends and family. And it was, it was like a song competition, dance competition, like a show. And I'm not even kidding you, there was like a 45-minute show.

Um, come on.

Wow, she crushed it. Her, her side crushed it. And then we came out and I walked out because, you know, they, they did what, um, the actors do in, in Indian cinema, which is that there's a playback singer, it's called, um, or, or an artist, but then the actors on screen in character lip sync to the song.

Right, right.

Although it's a different singer. So they did that, and I walked out and got on the mic and said, "You know, we have one thing— That was an amazing performance, and you all crushed it, and we're humbled and honored to get to go after you, but we have one thing that you don't: live microphones." And then we started.

Oh!

That's great.

Is there a strategy to going first or second? Like, did you guys flip a coin to see who would start?

We didn't flip a coin. It just kind of happened that way, and I'm glad it did because, you know, it put the fear of God in all my friends and family when we were backstage after and was like, "We got a whole fucking line." They brought it. Like, "Now's the time. I've never needed you more." And so we did that, then basically we did a Western Christian wedding. Yeah. And then the following day was, was the Indian ceremony. Um, so, so 3 nights. And by the way, that's, that's a, a short— considered a short Indian wedding. Usually they can go up to, you know, a week or two.

I was just, I was just thinking, I was imagining if we introduced that here in America, the sort of the competition element to a wedding. And I'm just thinking of like a wedding up in Massachusetts of two families, like, fuck you! Yeah, you motherfucker!

You thought that That was trash.

That was maybe a fucking immediately like, here we go, let's fucking, let's kill these clowns, fucking, you know, total brawl. Yeah, wow, that's so cool, dude.

That is really cool.

I can't believe it's already been an hour.

Yeah, we didn't get to much.

I know, it's just—

but so much.

It's a good— it's always a good sign when you just roll through. Nick, man, you're such a talent, dude. You're such a great dude.

Yeah.

And I just love what you do and so much admiration for all of it and just continue to do stuff like this.

Yeah, same. Thanks for making time while you're there at work, right? You're in your trailer.

There.

Thank you for doing this now.

Of course. And I'd love to come back next time with the bros too.

Yeah, we'd love that. We'd love that.

We gotta play some golf, you know. We gotta get it all done.

Yeah, let's get it all done.

Thanks for having me, guys. This was awesome.

We can workshop the dog play too, you know. We can just—

okay, you know what, that's it for Nick. Okay, so Jason, we're good. Okay, somebody cut off Jason's mic. Uh, thank you, Nick.

Thank you, guys.

Nick, thanks, buddy.

Nice to see you again.

See you later. Bye. That's Nick Jonas.

Wow, that is Nick Jonas. Yeah, impressive dude.

Oh yeah, when I saw— when I saw him backstage with Golden Globes with Priyanka, that it was just us three, we were chatting for like, you know, like a half an hour. It was great. It was so cool.

Do you think they rolled their eyes after they walked away from you?

Yeah, absolutely. Who doesn't?

Who the fuck is that? Why is this guy talking to us? This guy is such a random people.

He goes on and on. I don't care Cooking s'mores?

He's wearing slippers to an award show?

Wearing kaju mats. By the way, that sounds like a dream.

S'mores, slippers, rock and roll. It's very admirable that he is, you know, just thriving and incredibly relevant and working like a dog. And, you know, he's made that transition from child star to adult working.

Yeah, I mean— And started on Broadway.

Actually, I didn't even mention that he and I, years ago, went to a hospital here in Los Angeles around the holidays. Place and, uh, and visiting with all these, these kids who were sick. And he brought his guitar and he played songs for all these kids individually. And it was so— yeah, it was so moving. I mean, it's like, like he was just giving. He was so generous.

Yeah. And doesn't stop with his time like that. Like that, or, or, or— I mean, going from movie to concert to the recording studio to the— like, it's exhausting. Sounds exhausting.

Oh, oh, oh, that That was it.

We both thought you were leading into—

No, but they do have a song, a title called Goodbye. It's an album or a song or something. Yeah.

So we got to give you a quick lesson on how to do the bye thing.

Well, there's a song called Love.

I will say this. I will say that, like, his— comes, you know, he like, he's got the music and the, and the acting and all this stuff. And so like, how does he decide how he's going to, with his career, how he's going to go like to buy for Kate those two talents?

Buy for Kate.

This got to be the worst part of every episode.

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