Transcript of NFL Preview With Chris Long, Seth Wickersham, Jed York’s Escapade, Deshaun Named Starter + Mt Rushmore Of Non Ball Sport Items

Hey, Pardon My Take listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. What happens when you lock 18 co-workers in an office for one week to compete for a quarter million dollars of cash? This is Surviving Barstool Season 5, presented by Rumble Premium, where each episode releases 3 hours early. So get it ad-free before anybody else, only when you join Rumble Premium. New episodes of Surviving Barstool will be released every Sunday and Wednesday leading up to the Labor Day finale on September 7th. You can watch Surviving Barstool at 5 PM on Rumble Premium and everywhere else at 8 PM Eastern. On today's part of My Take presented by DraftKings, we are here at Camp Barstool and we're having fun. We're in a cabin. We have two interviews, Chris Long getting ready for football. Seth Wickersham, who has a new book coming out, awesome stories, uh, about his reporting career, talking about different quarterbacks, uh, the Patriots dynasty, everything that he's covered. We're going to do the Mount Rushmore of— Hank, give me the prompt.

Non-ball sports items.

Non-ball sports items. We gotta talk about, uh, some owners in trouble. Deshawn Watson named starting quarterback of the Cleveland Browns. Guys on Chicks, it's a pack show, and it's all brought to you by our friends at Mountain Dew. Nothing goes better with hanging out with your friends in a cabin, maybe doing some fishing. We did some fishing last night. Then the refreshing citrus kick of Mountain Dew. We love being at Camp Barstow. We love Mountain Dew. Uh, we were— so last night we did some fishing, we did some swimming. Today we're going to play softball, we're going to run around, and it's, it's the best. It's the absolute best. And we're doing it with Mountain Dew because there is nothing that goes better than summer activities, hanging out with your friends, being on a lake, playing some softball, throwing the football around, than doing it with the refreshing citrus kick of Mountain Dew. Mountain Dew is proudly born in the foothills of Tennessee, an American original, tasting great Since '48. Enjoy the refreshing citrus kick of Mountain Dew and American Original. Grab a Dew, tasting great since '48. I'm gonna have a sip right now.

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Oh yeah, absolutely love Mountain Dew. So thank you to Mountain Dew for sponsoring Camp Barstool. We're gonna have a great week, and nothing goes better, uh, than hanging out with your friends, your best friends, and then doing it with the refreshing citrus kick of Mountain Dew. Okay, let's go.

Football Guy, Patino, AWM.

Part of my take.

Yeah, part of my take. Yeah, part of my take. Part of my take.

Yeah, part of my take. Welcome to Part of My Take, presented by DraftKings. The crown is yours. Today is Wednesday, August 26th. And PFT, Big Cat, we got a horny, horny NFL owner.

We are at camp right now. You know what, like, okay, the season's about to start. I'm very excited about football being back. Can we not open up the show talking about the disgusting crimes of a sex pest? Instead, talk about Deshaun Watson getting the starting job.

Congrats to Deshaun.

Congrats, Deshaun. You did it.

Congrats to Deshaun.

You did it. Uh, yeah, the, uh, the Jed York news yesterday. Pretty shocking. Um, Ohio continues to take shots even when they're not talking about their football team. Um, what was the weirdest part to you? Was it the fact that it was in a trailer park?

Well, so for people who, who might not have seen the details of the, of the news, Jed York, the owner of the San Francisco 49ers, owner of a, a very famous— or adjacent owner of land next to a, uh, very famous substation, uh, who is from Youngstown, Ohio originally, was in Ohio and he was arrested for trying to solicit a prostitute and also owning criminal— what was it? Criminal tools. Criminal tools, which I think is cell phone.

Yeah, the phone. Anything that you use in conjunction with committing a crime in Ohio can be considered to be a criminal tool.

They need to fix that because when you see criminal tools, it's like, oh dude, was this guy going to try to bang with like a hammer in his hand or something?

I thought crowbar.

Yeah, I think like one of those things that you break into cars with. Yeah, no, it's a cell phone. It was—

he was—

he was like switching back, uh, and forth between, you know, like Twitter and Instagram and a criminal tool.

Or would his shoes be considered to be a criminal tool? Like, if he walked there, wouldn't his eyes be a criminal tool?

He opened up his eyes to look at his phone.

That's true. His penis, criminal tool.

Fingers, criminal tools.

Yeah, hand.

We're just surrounded by criminal tools.

His wallet, criminal tool.

So it was a sting operation. So he went to— I think he found a website and he was like, oh, this is great, I'm gonna go have some sex, I'm gonna pay some money. Uh, this is all alleged, by the way, would pay some money, have some sex.

When you put it that way, it actually doesn't sound that bad.

Yeah, right.

He's like, I'm gonna, you know, a little this, little that, gonna go to this trailer park, hook up. Uh, then he got in his car with his criminal tools in, in his pocket.

Yep.

And he got arrested because it was a sting operation and they knew he was coming.

Okay, so there's been a slight update this morning. I don't know what to believe anymore when it comes to this case, uh, but the, the waters are getting murky. Because the owner of the trailer park has weighed in and the owner of the trailer park would like to know that Jed York was simply pulled over.

Yeah.

In his trailer park. He was not— the sting operation was not happening at his trailer park.

Right. So the arrest happened at the Wheat Hill mobile home community, which I think is actually a very fair clarification by that guy being like, hey, just so you know, our— if we have prostitutes here, they are not part of a sting operation.

Correct. They're Yeah, clarify. They're getting— they're getting unjustly painted with a blue brush right now.

Right, right.

I just got off the phone with the chief of police from East Palestine, Chief Weingart. According to the chiefs, Jed York was arrested in the park because that's where he happened to pull over. They were not using addresses in the park as part of their sting operation. So, yes, our, our trailer park remains sting-free.

Correct. Correct. Yeah. So that, that all happened. And I think Jed York, I think he played— he's out. He's out of jail. I think he was only— I think he might have already Pled down.

Yeah. So he pled down from the charges. I don't think he was actually— he did not plead guilty to the prostitution charge. He pled guilty to a disorderly conduct charge. I feel like— and the criminal tools charge.

Yes. I do feel like a lot of those things, they just trying to get you on something and they'll— they're not going to like, you know, draw this out. It's like, we got you, right? You know, we got you. Pay the fine.

Yeah.

Plead down.

They're not trying to embarrass you, right? They're not trying to like if there was a video of the entire encounter that happened with an owner and a prostitute, like, they're not going to put that out, right? You're never going to see that see the light of day.

Correct.

And if we know something about the NFL, I, I'm anxious to see what the league does as a whole because they have long had a policy when it comes to ownership that if you get caught even sniffing a prostitute.

Yeah.

Or being involved with any of this stuff, like, see you, buddy. Like, you're out.

You're out.

Pack your bags. NFL. NFL says it. No fucking league.

We don't. We don't do horny here.

No, we don't. Get out. Get out.

Play football.

We don't need that. Bringing a black eye to the NFL. We need to have, you know, maintain a pristine image for our sponsors and our flagship franchises.

Right.

Like the 49ers. I mean, you talk about the greatest quarterback of all time, Joe Montana. That's a franchise that is like iconic in NFL history. If that owner is in trouble for anything, I don't care. You got to get him out of here. Yeah. What do you think, Hank?

I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. Yeah, you got it. Yeah, you got to agree. Yeah, you got to go.

Are you anti-human trafficking? Of course. Yes, of course. Absolutely.

Of course.

That was—

of course. I cut that pause out.

Why did you think about it?

There was no pause.

That was a long pause.

Early in the morning.

I didn't— I—

there's headphones.

There's a delay from like you're talking and it getting into my headphones.

Just so everyone knows, we did— we did post-edit. Uh, we made the pause like 1/10 as long as it normally— as it actually was.

There was no pause. I'm anti-human trafficking. Extremely anti.

Okay, that's good to know.

Uh, all right, so, so Hank, are you— do you think Bob Kraft should reach out to Jed York and be like, hey man, we've all been there, it gets better, yeah, don't worry?

Or do you think it's slightly different situations?

Oh, how so? Well, I think Bob Kraft came, didn't he?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

So that is different. That's one difference. But let's count all the differences. Bob Kraft came to—

Bob Kraft would never be in East Palestine.

Nope. That's very true. Number 2. Number 3, Bob Kraft technically did it during the NFL season.

Yeah. Now, bye week.

No, it was during the NFL season.

I think it was the week at— no, bye week before the Super Bowl.

Yeah, but that's still during the NFL.

It was during the NFL postseason.

Yeah, which is more important. He did it during— actually, if you're, if you're gonna get arrested for this, preseason would be the time, right?

Yeah, it's preseason for penises too. Like, we're all kind of getting back into shape, learning the rules.

Oh no, it was actually before the AFC Championship.

Oh, so not even a bye week. Uh, what else? What are the other differences, Hank? Oh, here's one. This actually is big, Hank. Bob Kraft I believe was single at the time.

Maybe.

Okay, he was.

I, I think he was.

I think he was.

He was a widower.

Yeah, no, I think he was single.

He was a widower. And then Jed York is married. Jed York is, I believe, divorced.

Oh, Jed York is also single.

I believe they filed for divorce back in, uh, the spring of this year.

Oh, so this was—

I didn't know until his wife's fault. Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You careful. Good, good.

You got divorced?

Yeah.

Of course he's going to end up in this trailer park.

So yeah, I'm curious to know way more of the details in this. I want to know what website he was on. I want to know what the, what the ad looked like. What is—

Oh, we don't really need to know the website.

I would like to know what got Jed York, a billionaire, out of his probably mansion into a car at like 4:00 AM and driving to a trailer park or excuse me, next to a trailer park. In East Palestine, Ohio. I know his family's from Youngstown, but still, like, if from what I've read about, you know, it's not exactly a thriving community right now. And for him to, like, be driving into that environment super late at night, how, how hot was this ad? Or is there something else that he was going there to do?

Or was he—

yeah, was he—

how is he— he got pulled over and he was sober. Like, that's shocking. Yeah, that sounds like the drunkest move of all time.

Also, this is—

no, that's why I think— I honestly think that he needs—

like, did he wake up? Was he just like— it started his day at 3 AM, was like, let's go get— do a quick hook piece.

I think he needs to, to hook piece. I think he needs to say the substation made him horny. I think the substation is at a point, like, in a mythological standpoint, that you could just say, like, we're creating X-Men with you if you, if you live next to the substation. Like, I'm, I'm Dr. Horny. Like, I, I have to, I have fuck at all times. Sex men. Yeah, the sex men.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think if you're him, you have— well, number one, not to make this a little bit personal, but it was kind of a there but for the grace of God go I moment when I saw this. Not because I've ever been to a prostitute, but the image of the mugshot where it's just the biggest 5'8" behind him where he's standing in front of the height chart. I know, but that's the thing.

No, he's getting to like 5'9".

That's what I'm saying. He's 5'9" if you look real close at it. But to the untrained eye, everybody looks at that and they're just like, whoa, 5'8".

Yeah.

And so it's like, if that happened to me, like, it's tough.

Your eyes are 5'4".

Yeah, he's got, he's got low eyes.

Very low.

Now, I did— I, I have nothing but respect for the Youngstown community. I want to preface everything I'm about to say with that. We love Youngstown, birthplace of Grit. It's been a very special place for part of my take over the years. Um, I did do some research into, into his family, into Jed York's family and the history of the ownership there. I didn't realize that he was— his father was fined $1 million by the NFL as he was an owner and probably one of the greatest owners in terms of championships and winning culture of all time. The Bartlows. He was fined $1 million because he failed to report somebody asking him for a bribe back in the day. So I guess there was a casino that was opening up in Louisiana like a riverboat casino.

So he just got— he got fined for not being a snitch.

Not being a snitch. So the governor—

well, I guess asked him for a bribe and he didn't report that. I could see how that could be an issue.

Why?

Well, if you don't say that you got bribed, people could assume maybe you did get bribed.

But he didn't get bribed, right? But he didn't report that the governor asked him for money.

The governor asked him for—

yeah, the governor of Louisiana asked him for a bribe.

Yeah, that would also be an issue because it's almost like, I'm not going to say anything because now I know I could bribe him. I'm going to wait later to bribe him.

Also, if you don't report it and you don't pay the bribe, then I guess you could be like, hey, you better do me a favor. Yeah, right. Didn't turn you—

I'm not gonna— like, I'm not gonna give you the money. Yeah, but I'm not gonna say anything.

So yeah, they're double—

I would see how the—

I didn't even know there were bribe laws like that, but I could see how that would make sense.

In Louisiana, they have to cover all the bases.

He paid a bribe.

Did he?

Okay, now we're in idiot jazz territory, boys. Let's figure this out.

I saw that the charge was for failing to report extortion.

The bribe extortion. 1998, Eddie DeBartolo.

Oh, he admitted to paying—

paying a $400,000 cash demand bribe to former Louisiana Governor Edwin Edwards to secure a Riverboat Casino gaming license.

The legal— the legal outcome: DeBartolo pleaded guilty to a felony charge of failing to report a bribe.

Oh, he should have reported that he bribed him.

Yeah, it's like bribing— bribery is okay. You just have to admit it.

You just gotta let everyone know. Yeah, so we can get the tax— taxes back.

That's like our idea for starting a pyramid scheme or a Ponzi scheme and just telling— just saying, hey, this is a Ponzi scheme that we're running.

Like, hey, just so you know, there, there might be a couple of you that get some money back.

Get in early.

You're gonna get fucked.

You better get in early.

Like, roll the dice. Okay, so he, he did the bribe, and yeah, his only crime was just not reporting it.

Yeah, that's really the only, the only problem we had is like, you didn't let us know so we could get a taste too.

Yeah.

Okay, so, uh, Decades later, oh, President Trump pardoned him. Okay, okay, so we can't even talk about that.

Okay, yeah, didn't happen.

Yeah.

Uh, all right, so wait, where, where were—

do you think he bribed to get that pardon?

Probably.

So then is Trump guilty of not reporting the bribe from DiBartolo?

No, I think DiBartolo still has to report the bribe to Trump.

But he— what if he bribed Trump, right?

No, I don't think you have to—

Trump's on the hook for not raising his hand saying, hey, I'm going to give this guy a pardon But just so you guys know, he bribed me.

Yeah. I don't know if you have to admit that you were the— when you get bribed, you have to tell everyone when you bribe someone.

Okay.

Because he bribed Edwin Edwards and he didn't— he didn't let anyone know that he said that. Bribe.

True.

Do you think Kyle Shanahan is happy or like, this is like, this is better for him?

I think Kyle Shanahan is still probably like, fuck, man, I really fucked up my car. But he's not like, the heat's—

the heat's taken off me a little bit.

You think Kyle Shanahan was just preparing for driving on the wrong side of the road in Australia? Yeah, I actually don't know. They probably drive on the correct side down there.

I would say Kyle Shanahan probably is. I don't think anyone— this is the crazy thing about the owner part of it, and maybe like to get serious for a second about this. I don't think anyone in that building cares what these owners do. I think the only, only people that care are the other owners and if they get embarrassed or not. That's all that matters. Yeah, the other owners care because they're like, oh, that was embarrassing. If you are a 49ers player, coach, uh, you know, cafeteria worker, wherever, you're probably like, who the fuck cares? Like, yeah, we got a billionaire owner, you don't think he's doing some fucking weird shit? Of course he is. So that would be my guess, is that the other owners are probably— they probably— their ears perked up and they're like, hey, is this going to be embarrassing for us? Like, how many how much more is going to come out about this, and then they'll decide whether to do something or not.

We're actually going to get into it a little bit with Seth Wickersham. Yeah, but really, ultimately, all they care about— you can do whatever you want, you can be the worst guy in the world, right? You can get caught in all kinds of scandals. They won't care because they know that they have skeletons in their past too. So they're very— owners are very leery about voting out one of their own because they know if we come for them, right, somebody can find something and come for you. The only thing that will change their mind is if they think that they stole as much as a dollar from you.

Correct.

So if they suspect the other owners, one other guy of like withholding money from the rest of the league, then they'll turn on that. Right. That's the only thing that they, that they understand.

So what would the advice you'd have for Jed York, Hank, as someone who's gone through this? You got to get the charges dropped.

Yeah, but they were—

did Bob Kraft get the charges dropped?

Oh, he did.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, he already pled down.

Yeah.

So step one complete.

Yeah. The— they like illegally surveyed Robert Kraft.

What does that mean?

The way that they got the information.

You talk about the guys with the spray paint and the standing on the sidewalks.

A Florida appeals court ruled that the hidden video cameras installed by police inside the massage rooms violated constitutional rights of Kraft and other customers.

Got it.

I kind of agree with that.

Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of like you shouldn't be able to— so I don't know if it's staying or just taking operation.

This might be like more cut and dry.

Yeah. All right, so, so, uh, but it's definitely more dry.

Well, it's gonna be wet. Yeah, but if they never got to that part, right, right, he was still in his car.

I don't know if he's circumcised, so I don't know, cut or dry, who knows. Um, so good, good.

Jed York, try to lay low, dude. I don't even know. Or just keep doing whatever you're doing.

Well, maybe he does what his uncle did and he just gives ownership to his sister, keeps in the family.

He just needs to say entrapment. Wasn't the—

that's what I'm saying. Like, maybe the ad was— the ad was just so hot.

What happened with the Giants owner? Is he still the owner? Uh, one of them stepped down. No, but one of them stepped down, right? Because wasn't there a situation?

Are you talking about the, uh, the illegally doctored merchandise when their equipment manager was throwing helmets down?

No, no, no, no. I'm talking about, uh, a certain island, I believe.

Yeah.

Did he—

did he step by— he stepped He stepped down.

I think Tish might still be—

he might still be in circles because that's the other thing is you could do that as an owner. You could be like, hey, I'm taking a step back and not take a step back. But everyone's like, all right, cool.

He's taking a step back.

Like, look at that guy taking ownership.

Well, no, he's actually like the reverse. Yeah, he's not taking ownership anymore. No, he's taking a step back.

Nobody's taking ownership to take a step back. Yeah. And then now he can own again.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. So yeah, Tish, I believe, is still around. So yeah, the league's—

he's not stepped down.

Really, the league's stance on owners taking part in human trafficking is murky at best. Yeah, their policy is nonexistent in the NFL.

Imagine if the— yeah, if Jed York goes to jail, he's like, uh, heretofore, as we look at the legal precedence of Tisch versus the NFL, I mean, I don't have to do shit.

Somebody, somebody out there that interviews Roger Goodell on, uh, like semi-frequent Peter King, come back just to ask him this question. What is your policy on owners and human trafficking? Yeah, I would like a concrete answer on that. And all right, wait, because right now Jerry Jones is looking at this and be like, well, if it ain't broke.

Yeah.

Oh, okay. Here it is. This is what they did. This is what Jonathan Tisch did. He, he transferred his ownership stake to the Giants, to his children's trust.

Oh, good.

So they're not even his anymore.

Good.

Yeah. He has no access to it.

Uh, one winner in this entire saga I think would be Brandon Aiyuk.

How so?

Well, because, because he's really pissed off at the ownership of the 49ers.

I—

does he— is he still though? Because I feel like he doesn't even know that he was technically under contract.

Yeah, his former team. Yeah, uh, he posted on Instagram the— a picture of the mugshot and just said, thought shit was sweet until you got arrested before me.

Oh, okay.

Which is pretty funny.

Yeah, yeah.

So like, credit to Brandon Aiyuk. Yeah, he's probably gonna go live from that trailer park. He's probably gonna just show up there and Dougie in the middle of the street and be like, gotcha, whip around.

Also, no, I'm not gonna say— there's— there are definitely some people that I— when you said PFT, you'd like to see this website and like how in-depth it was, I, I actually now agree. I'd like to see this website too and maybe send it to some high-level people that we'd maybe want to take a step down. Yeah, in certain sports situations. Yeah, be nice.

I, I would agree with that.

I could— we could get the Bears to Arlington Heights in like 2, 2 links. Yeah, I have to send out. Uh, okay. Um, by the way, we are brought to you by our friends at DraftKings. DraftKings. Something big is coming on September 2nd. DraftKings Game Day arrives with massive deals, exclusive deals, and all-day celebration built for sports fans. The countdown has begun. All roads lead to game day. The DraftKings Sports app is now live in all 50 states. That means from Texas to California to Florida, every fan is in on the excitement. One app, every sport, all 50 states. DraftKings Game Day is yours. Remember the date: September 2nd. DraftKings Game Day is the kickoff of a new season, a new era, and the biggest day in sports history. Get pumped, get ready to celebrate. New DraftKings customers sign up with code TAKE, spend $5 to get $200 in rewards within 21 days. Includes all markets. That's code TAKE in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours.

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Okay boys, what else we got going on? We have, uh, we have, we have jerseys, new jerseys, rivalry jerseys that have been released for the AFC South and the NFC North. Um, I am so jerseyed out. I'm so jerseyed out, PFT. I, I can't We, we've gotten to this point in the NBA. I think we've gotten to this point now in the NFL. I'm looking at it, the, the Bears jersey is just, eh, okay, it's fine. You know what doesn't need a new jersey? The Bears playing the Packers. It doesn't need a new jersey. That does not— that, that rivalry does not need a new jersey. They have jerseys that are iconic and, and, and have history You do not have to rethink the wheel. I am just— it's not, it's not even that like I think these are so horrific. It's more just I'm tired of new jerseys.

Yeah. If you're going to have a New Jersey week, it should be like two teams that we think never play against each other, right? It should be the Jaguars against the Seahawks.

Yes.

And then have a weird jersey. Rivalries don't need jerseys. Yeah. I mean, it's just the way of the NFL trying to squeeze a little bit more money out of you. Right. And there's losers out there that will buy whatever new jersey that the NFL throws in their face. Not like me, who just spent a couple hundred dollars on the soccer NFL crossover collaboration jerseys that came out last week. But that's talking about somebody completely different from your—

your hands are tied on that.

I have to get the SHIELD merch.

If they show you— yeah, if they show you some type of weird thing that has some kind of allusion to football, you're like, I got it.

I love football.

Got to have it. No, but there are people out there who like will, will sprint across a room to go see these new jerseys. Yeah. And do anything they can.

Shane, Shane, Shane, Shane's our jersey guy.

I mean, you're being a little hyperbolic. It was— I was already going away.

Wait, wait, wait, his mic's not on.

It was a swift turn around this corner.

Yeah, it was a— you were standing here, I said, oh, there's— oh, have you seen the new jerseys? I think I was saying it to Zach. You go, there are new jerseys out for the NFL?

And you—

there was like a cloud of dust tire tracks and a swift move to the computer to see them as quickly as possible.

I was already making my way over here, maybe a little faster, but I love jerseys, man.

You love the new ones?

I love all jerseys. I love City Connects. I love reverse retros. I'm a visual guy.

Okay.

Like, I love the visuals.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's your job is to be a visual guy.

Created that in. Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Hank, what do you think about what Shane called you last episode? I was thinking about it more today.

What do you call him again?

Pussy.

Oh yeah, that was over the line.

It was over the line. Uh, I'm talking to his supervisor when he gets back from his sex vacation, and, uh, we'll be dealing with this internally.

That could be anyone.

What, uh, I did apologize to Hank.

That's a pussy. Yeah, yeah. Well, no, no, you're being a pussy.

Yeah, I understand. Okay, it shouldn't have been said in the first place. It was like eating— it was like eating at me after I said it. Like, that night I was like, I really shouldn't have said that.

I don't know why. I don't know why I said that, but we are— everyone on this podcast is allowed to call anyone else on this podcast a pussy at any time. That's just—

it wasn't my place. It wasn't my place.

No, it always is your place. Uh, all right, Shane, rank us. Rank the New Jerseys now that we found out that you're one of those freaks, okay, that, uh, gets like super pumped.

Number 1, Houston. I love the Houston one. They have like— in this picture you can't really see it, but— oh, he's actually doing this on the— oh, the rest I don't like.

I don't—

all right, but rank him, rank him.

I don't, I don't like the rest, but the Houston, the back is like tile. Yeah, the nameplates and stuff.

That's cool.

It'd be Houston, Jags, and then—

well, describe the Jags.

The Jags is kind of like, it's kind of retro looking with a serif font on it with like black.

Yep.

I hate the Packers. The Bears, I feel like I've seen a million times.

Yeah, they're like, they're like, they're basically like Virginia Cavaliers jerseys. Yeah.

The, the Vikings look like, like early 2000s, like Ravens.

Just the Lions.

Finally, the Vikings just look like Vikings.

Yeah. The Lions turned into the Panthers.

Yeah.

Did you see their helmet and their color scheme?

I didn't. I didn't see the helmet.

Yeah. That was the other thing that we learned about Shane is he doesn't— he can't really judge these by the pictures. He needs to see them on body. He said, I need to see him on.

You're missing the pants. You're missing the socks. You're missing the shoes.

Lions on body.

Does it—

doesn't the body matter?

Like which body you're looking at, like the Dion Dawkins situation. Yeah, talking about, yeah, if it's a big guy or if it's like these Houston ones are speedy wide receiver with a single-digit number.

The Houston, they get— all right. Oh, those are Panthers. Yeah, the Panthers. The Lions turned into the Panthers. How stupid is that?

That's, that's bad. That's bad. Uh, I— the worst one's the Colts. I hate the Colts. The Colts are really bad.

The only thing that you can set your watch to when it comes to all these different jerseys that they come up with is the Jets ones will always look exactly the same. Thank you to the Jets.

Oh yeah, what are the—

these Colts ones are just the Bills ones.

Yeah, I just— I, it was cool when Oregon was the only place that did it.

Baylor a little bit. Yeah, yeah.

But it's become— and again, the NFL, like, your, your branding is so strong. You're, you're, you're, you're— each team, especially the historic ones, like, don't mess with it. I don't— it's just whatever.

Did they say how many times a year this is worn? I think one.

I think it's just Christmas Day for Bears is all I've seen so far. It's like the rivalry week.

Yeah.

So do you feel the same way about like City Connect jerseys and other sports?

Yes, I, I think there's— I mean, there's some that are like kind of nice. Um, no, but even the City Connects I thought weren't that great in, in NBA and, uh, MLB.

Yeah, hit rate's not high, but some are really nice, like the, the Washington Nationals, the, the Cherry Blossoms.

Yeah, the Fenway Red Sox There are some cities that you can put, like Maryland, if they put the flag on anything, people are going to buy it. Yeah. Like if they put cherry blossoms on anything DC-related, I don't care, I will buy it.

And, and there's the, to the Texans point, there is the Carolina sky blue cheat code. Like the Cubs have their, you know, light blue uniforms. Those are awesome. I don't know if those are technically the city connects, but so those cheat codes like that, that doesn't That doesn't mean all these, these jerseys are good. It's just that teams figured out that if you do a sky blue, people are gonna be like, oh, that's sick. Yeah, because it's the best color. So yeah, I'm Jerseyed out.

Something I would like to see, a plaid jersey at some point.

I feel like there has been—

has there?

I don't know.

A plaid jersey?

Maybe I'm thinking of Twin Peaks.

Yeah, you are. That is hot. Yeah, you're thinking, you're thinking of boobs.

I am.

Yeah.

I was saying I jayworked myself there. Hey, criminal tools right here in the old skull, you know what I'm saying, Zach? I'm thinking about it.

I do think that might have legs, being like, I gotta go take a york. Yeah, like, oh, you hear about that guy? Yorked himself last night.

Yeah, or, or someone saying like, oh man, that chick's hot, and it's like, bro, chill out, your tongue's sounding like a criminal tool right now.

Yeah, you got to be careful. Oh, actually, I'm— I just clowned Tony O'Brown myself. It's really like, I'm going to go get some jet. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, so, Zach, what are you going to say?

There's no way anybody's first York is 4 a.m. at the trailer park.

Oh, no, that can't be your first York.

There's no way. I disagree strongly. You think so? 100% with that. I think that's a lot of people's first times. I think that it's very rarely a billionaire's first.

I'm too much of a pussy. I would, I would probably— my first York would be like 2:30 on a Tuesday. Like, there's no way they're doing a sting right now.

Everyone's at work.

Yeah, all the cops are at work right now.

Like, this can't possibly be me getting arrested. Yeah, I would— I wouldn't do it on a weekend, weeknight, like a—

that's the horniest, I would think.

I know, but I would have to— I'd have to dip my toes in Yorking way, way before that. Yeah, like a Monday at like, like 10 AM.

Yeah, you got the B squad going.

The cops aren't even up yet, this is fine.

No, I do— I do think that a lot of people's first times would probably be that type of environment. Yeah, not a billionaire. NFL owner. I think their first times would probably be an environment where like the line between just like employee and like working girl of the night is probably blurred, like in, in a very swanky hotel lobby bar. Mm-hmm. But yeah, this was a very, very horny guy.

Yes, very horny.

All right.

So we kind of brushed over— Deshaun Watson is the starting quarterback for the Browns. Yep, it is. I feel bad for Browns fans. Yeah, it is like— I know that Deshaun, I guess, could potentially be better than Sha'dur Sanders, but I would just much rather just wash your hands, especially after his, his press conference. Like, just be like, dude, we're done with this. Like, you, you suck. Yeah, you don't want to be here. You hate everything about it. Let's just stop this.

I'd forgotten that maybe the craziest part in this situation, the fact that Deshaun is the starting quarterback of the Browns is the fact that his owner publicly, like in an interview, said out loud, we took a big swing. It was a miss.

No, it didn't. He also say, and now we're hoping to hit a double or something. Yeah, but he said like, like, like, basically being like, we're trying to make something out of this.

The guy that he referred to as a swing and a miss, like publicly, the owner called you a swing and a miss. And now that guy is now the starting quarterback going into a season and you're trying to sell hope to your fan base. Yes. Even though you called him a swing and a miss, like, that sucks for Browns fans. It's terrible that they have to go through this. He's not good off the field. He's never apologized. That's what we were saying the other day is like other people found redemption and like found communities in new cities as they tried to like revive their careers that embrace them and like give them a second chance. You can't get a second chance if you still are denying that. Correct. Your first chance is over.

Swing and a miss.

Yeah.

All right. So I have the exact quote. We took a big swing and a miss with Deshaun. We thought we had the quarterback. We didn't. And we gave up a lot of draft picks to get him. So we got to dig ourselves out of that hole. It was an entire organization decision. It ends with Dee and I. So hold us accountable. I think it starts with Dee and I, right? It was an entire organization decision and it ends with Dee and I. I think you're supposed to say Dee is his wife, by the way.

Dee. Yeah.

I feel like you're supposed to say it starts with me.

I think it ends with Dee and me.

Yeah, but also, but also you should start—

it starts and ends, I think, is what you would ideally—

I think the buck stops here, but it starts with me.

I think you say it starts— the decision starts and it ends with Dee and I. Also, what a, what a, what a shot for him to take at his wife. Yeah, like nobody was blaming her at all for this. Yeah, he's like, I know that there's a lot of people upset with Dee. I want to say that it's both of us. This is Sean Watson. Like she, she brought it to me and we discussed and I approved.

Yeah.

And so yes, we both share equally in this decision. Right. God, she was just like totally skate.

Nobody was thinking her wins are my wins. My losses are her losses. D, you screwed this one up, but I'll sit here with you.

But we both did, you know.

So wait, so he went on to say it would be great if we could get the quarterback, but we're not going to force it. We're going to be patient and we're going to try to accumulate as many really good football players. Players as we can.

So he is—

he's so over this.

Yeah, he never even said like Deshaun might be the— like, Deshaun was a swing and a miss. Yeah, we screwed up the quarterback position. By the way, would you mind continue— continuing to work for us?

Like, it's so stupid.

It's—

and again, it's just—

it's—

Deshaun Watson is not good at playing quarterback anymore.

This was a crazy stat. I saw this from Doug Clawson. It's been 2,059 days since Deshaun Watson's last 300-yard passing game, January 3rd, 2021. Tom Brady has 14 300-yard passing games since Deshaun Watson's last, and he's been retired for the last 3 seasons.

Yep. And there's also names on that list because I have the list as well. Sam Howell, great quarterback, great quarterback. Zach Wilson, Josh Dobbs, PJ Walker. Drew Locke, Cooper Rush, Aiden O'Connell, Taylor Heinecke, all these guys, Ben Roethlisberger, all these guys have had a 300-yard passing game.

Shador, Drake May, yeah, even Drake May had one.

Even Drake May. You know what's crazy too? And, and listen, I know that the Browns, like, I don't know, there's a world where you're like, well, let's see what we have with them. Joe Flacco took you guys to the playoffs. Yeah, he's still playing. I know he's not the long-term answer, but it just sucks for their, their, the defensive side of the ball. They're just like, yeah, we're gonna go with Shador. I mean, uh, Deshaun, how long do you think until Shador plays?

Like, how long?

How long does Deshaun have?

He's—

he—

I, I'd say no more than like 5 or 6 games.

Yeah, I was about to— I was gonna say like a month, a month and a half feels right.

Like, if you get a guy And I'll bring up Baker. He used to be in the building. He's a guy that would— if he gets banged up, he doesn't give a fuck. He's going to keep playing football. I think the first hint of getting injured— and they are real injuries in the NFL, like it's— you get hit a lot. Yeah, it hurts like shit. But the first sign of like pain of an injury, Deshaun Watson is going to be like, yeah, fuck that. Yeah, he's got guaranteed money. He doesn't really feel like playing for that franchise anymore, so he'll take himself out. And then the crazy thing is like Okay, it's actually— it's the perfect crime for the Browns because they are clearly trying to lose games, right? It would appear.

Well, I don't know, because it's also a new coach. I, I don't know if they're trying to lose games. I think they're just so fucked with the fact that they signed Deshaun Watson. He's terrible at quarterback.

Yeah, well, I guess they've got— they've got Deshaun. If they want to roll him out there, they'll probably lose some games. But it's what I'm saying, it's a perfect crime. Like any other franchise that was putting Deshaun out there for Week 1 as a starter, everybody would be like, they're tanking the season. The fact that they also have Shador, who has not played well, right, then a reasonable person could look at that and say like, I'm actually not sure which one's better. Yeah, but you could look at Shador and say he's much, much younger and you don't know what you have. Do you know how old Deshaun is? I was shocked to read 28. No, no, he's 30.

Oh, okay.

I thought he was 34. Sorry, you did. It's okay.

I, I actually thought he was under 30, but yeah, no, you're like, they— it's just, it's crazy. I feel bad for Browns fans. It's just they did not ask for this. And, uh, I, I also, in a weird way, and this is gonna sound stupid because Deshaun Watson's not good at quarterback, uh, and he hasn't shown it for, for many years. It's like you were saying where it's like, hey, maybe he could have a good— you do look back and see what he was and you're like, hey, just find that guy for a minute.

It.

It's the gambler in me. It's the gambler in all of us where it's like, what if we— what if we just win all of our bets? What if Deshaun is just good again? So I think they're probably going with a little of that, and then they're gonna pull— they're gonna pull them as soon as that's proven to be stupid. Uh, I have a question for you, Hank and Zach. Uh, tell me how you think these quarterback situations are. I'm going to give you some teams. Okay, you ready?

Yep.

The Rams.

Great.

The Chargers.

Okay.

Oh, just okay. All right. Cowboys.

Good.

Bills.

Okay.

Okay. That's great. Browns.

Great.

Okay. Well, what is this experiment? This experiment was just—

these are the— to me.

Do it.

All right.

Rams.

Really good team.

Chargers.

It's just a quarterback.

Quarterbacks.

A quarterback situation. Chargers. We'll see.

Okay.

Cowboys, uh, about 16 out of 32.

Bills, great. Browns, yeah, dog shit, terrible. Those are the top 5 most expensive quarterback rooms in the NFL.

Wow, the Browns room is so expensive.

You have—

for those—

for the Rams, Chargers, Cowboys, Bills, I would say all 4 of those teams are very, very confident in their starting quarterback. And then the Browns are the 5th most expensive team at $44.5 million, and they have 2 second-year guys in that room. Yeah, that's the craziest one. There weren't first-round draft picks.

I would say they got, they got 3. They got, well, one rookie, the guy.

Oh yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right.

I would like to see that guy's dynamic. He's dynamic.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, it's a tough break for the, for the Browns and Browns fans. They're still going to go to games and they're gonna, they're gonna boo because they were told not to boo. So we talk about this with Chris a little bit. It really, it really worked out quite well for the rest of the NFL owners to have this contract to Deshaun going from being the worst contract that they've ever seen. Maybe the future of the NFL is giving guaranteed money for free agents or for big-name trades to being like the best cautionary tale ever to why you should never give out guaranteed money. Yeah. To a quarterback on a trade. I was thinking about what we're going to be looking at at the end of the year if the tank does pay off for the Browns. Yep. There is a world where it would be Browns' first overall pick and the presumable number one overall pick would be Arch Manning.

I think, by the way, the Browns are not going to be the worst team.

But yes, I agree. Actually, I'm going to bet their win total, which I think is 5.5. They've got a very easy schedule. Yeah. And their defense is good. But you could see I mean, it's a possibility the Browns could be the worst team in the NFL as well.

Yeah.

So if that happens, Arch Manning, presumed first overall pick, do you think that the family would let Arch go to Cleveland?

Absolutely not.

I thought that too. Oh, but then I remember Haslam is the number one booster.

Yeah.

The Tennessee Volunteers. Peyton Manning, obviously deep connections there. I'm imagining they probably have a good relationship with each other, like a very good relationship that might supersede seeing all those names on the back of that jersey.

Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right there. That would be the one twist where it's like, yeah, but again, it's not— it's not Peyton's son. So Arch is an Ole Miss guy.

True.

And a Texas guy, not a—

but I don't know. This is just— yeah, this is just us using our— this dude's using our imaginations.

We're just using fan fiction, not New York way.

Yeah.

Speaking of New York memes, do you think that that the Mannings would allow Arch to go to the Jets?

Probably. Oh, so not in a Jed York way. We're using our imagination for good, not evil.

We have good offensive line, good receivers. Why wouldn't you want to put your young quarterback in a good situation like that?

Memes, how would you say this is going without Max here?

I think well.

Okay, good. Because there were people saying you're a Max merchant.

You're the only one who's been saying that. But I think it's been going well.

Literally when we start and it's like the first 3 seconds when I can't see something on the screen, I'm like, oh, memes, Max Merchant.

I heard Colton say it too.

No, I think, I think we're actually getting to the point where Max might be Wally Pipped by Shane.

I actually agree with that. Shane was electric.

Shane was electric.

He called— he—

Max would never call Hank a pussy. Yeah, one thing about Max, he would never. All right, let's do, uh, Hot Seat, Cool Throw, and then we have Mount Rushmore, then two great interviews. Uh, before we get to Hot Seat, Cool Throne, Mountain Dew. Nothing goes better with hanging with your friends, talking about football, talking about jerseys, sitting around just hanging out. We were playing cards last night, uh, playing a little euchre. Nothing goes better than hanging out with your friends than having a refreshing citrus kick of Mountain Dew. We're here at Camp Barstool. Thank you to Mountain Dew for sponsoring Camp Barstool. We love coming here, and, uh, we're doing it all. We're kayaking, we're canoeing, we're fishing, we're swimming, and it all goes well with Mountain Dew. We're gonna play some softball today. An American original, tasting great since '48. Enjoy the refreshing citrus kick of Mountain Dew, an American original. Grab a Dew, tasting great since '48. Grab a Dew today. Thank you to Mountain Dew, and, uh, tune into all of our Camp Barstool stuff because we'll have live streams after the Yak every single day. And it's going to be a lot of fun.

Henry, my hot seat is, uh, I don't know if it's—

I guess players that want to go back to college.

Okay.

Even though they can still do it. The SEC released a statement condemning the actions, but they're not doing anything about it.

I love that.

What about the Big Ten? Lead from the front.

The Big Ten's banning it.

Yeah, we're banning it, but we're actually doing something about it.

Have you condemned it? Well, I disavow, I condemn, because the SEC, they, they led the way in condemning it.

Yeah, I would like to say I disavow and condemn, but aren't— but are completely allowing it.

But you're missing them. You're missing them. They strongly condemned it.

Uh, it is sad to me that the SEC doesn't go all the way to banning it because they know they probably are going to need this to compete with the Big Ten. So yeah, if we're being honest, they need anything they can get at this point, but they condemned it. They condemned it.

We—

you're losing sight of that. Yeah. They said this is terrible. It's a terrible thing that's happening.

If you're—

somebody should do something about this.

If you're—

if you're one of the smaller conferences, you should just be like, we— we're— we're Ellis Island for these guys. We will— we will accept you. Give us your— give us your washed out training camp, you know, 85th man roster guys. Yeah, we'll take them.

You get Tisch involved in an island and he might be able to set that up. I think if doesn't work out in North Carolina, 33rd team would be nice to have in the NFL. Maybe you get all those guys— actually would work perfectly in North Carolina. Everyone that doesn't make an actual roster in the NFL come to UNC.

Mm-hmm.

That's been the dream of Lombardi.

Yeah, true.

Make it happen.

True.

All right.

And my other hot seat was, was Goodgood Callaway.

Yeah.

The stories feels like it's kind of broken containment from just like social media.

Wait, so did it go further?

New York Times wrote an article.

Oh no.

And then at 3 o'clock in the morning, the Callaway CEO released a statement. Yeah. Which like, if you're—

wait, that's York time? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He was on demon time. Okay.

This guy's— the CEO's name is Chip Brewer, which I just thought was a funny—

yo, don't say that second name.

It's a funny name for— it's, it's—

I can't say B-R-E-W.

It's a funny name for, uh, for a golf, you know, golf brand CEO.

And it's— no, there's no way that's his real What's his real name?

Chip Brewer.

Chip Oliver. Oliver Brewer. Oliver Brewer.

Oliver Brewer. That's the most— you— it's impossible to say that name and sound sober.

But he was—

he was Oliver Brewer.

Mom, I wasn't drinking. I was just over at Oliver Brewer's house.

Oliver Brewer III.

He said, a long statement, mistakes were made. We're taking the matter very seriously. The part that I found funny was, uh, he said, you know, they, they— once they realized how bad the video was, they removed it. We are also conducting both internal and external investigations and have already made changes to our approval processes aimed at ensuring this will never happen again.

What does that mean? Just having someone with a brain?

Like, what is the internal and what is the external investigation look like? Like they're looking outside the organization to see who was this influence from the outside.

No, it sounds like they're, they're like hiring a law firm to do, to do an investigation, to just check some emails of someone like not really like, oh, looks good, guys. The craziest—

I think they're just walking around their office and like handing him a photo and it's like a man and a woman and like, would you attack either of these people? And if so, which one? And every guy that says just the guy, they're like, all right, you got a brain, you got this.

The statement from Callaway, what's his name?

Chip.

Chip Oliver. Oliver G. Brewer III.

Chip Brewer. Oliver Brewer. The all black app that he put out. Yeah. Like it was a screenshot of all black background. You know he means business.

It's serious. Someone died or Good Good made a bad ad.

Or yeah, it was a stupid commercial that came out. Yeah, this is the easiest— like, there's some bad things that companies have put out. There's some bad ads that have come out that you think like, that's really like fucking stupid that they put that out there, and it— they should be shamed for that ad. This was just a joke that was not funny, right? Because you could ask them like, explain what the joke was supposed to be. It's like, well, the joke I think is supposed to be that Garrett is so protective of his driver that he would do something stupid and act like an asshole, like push a woman over for trying to take it. It's not like— yeah, I don't— the New York Times should not be involved in this.

No, it's— if we did the sliding scales of ads where it's— remember the— what was the orange vanilla Coke that was— that was the annoying, annoying, annoying commercial.

Yeah.

To the others, Dr Pepper for Men.

Dr Pepper 10. Yeah, it's not for women. The other spectrum, the other, the other side of the spectrum, that was literally their tagline was it's not for women.

The other side of the spectrum would be, uh, SpaghettiOs 9/11 tribute, right?

Which is great.

Yeah, we're somewhere in the middle that we don't need to even like—

I forgot about that.

It doesn't need to be like Day6.

What about Florida State honoring Martin Luther King?

That was nice.

That actually was classic when they photoshopped the receiver. That was classic. And he was doing the job.

I'd like to buy those. I forgot he was Or the, or the, um, I think it was a Marriott or Sheridan that did a 9/11, uh, free breakfast from the hours of when the first tower got hit to the second tower.

That was touching.

That one was really nice.

Yeah, it's really not that big.

It's nowhere near those.

No, it's not. I'll tell you this, TaylorMade would never—

no, no, no.

They should actually market— we're happy to be the face of TaylorMade's next ad campaign. Which is just being respectful to women, like giving drivers to women.

Yes.

How about that?

Yeah. Giving drivers to women and Tiger.

Yeah. Excuse me, miss. Yeah. You look like you could use a driver.

Here you go. That would actually be a funny ad.

Yeah.

Just handing out drivers and then Tiger walks in and you're like, hey, buddy, I got you.

Yeah, you too.

Okay, good. Good hot seat.

I was just— I was just—

I was just on the phone with Oliver Burr. I was talking to the president.

You got a cool throw?

Oh, my cool throw is the Pods.

The Padres?

The Pods. Yeah.

Okay.

They got a new owner, Kwanza Jones.

I saw this.

See the press conference?

I saw she was pretty amped up.

2-second clip of it. Yeah.

This—

we're gonna win, win it all. We're gonna win, we're gonna win, win it all.

I mean, that's what you want. You get it. You get a new team, you get a new ownership. Like that. Maybe like the— once, you know, Jed York gets ousted from the 49ers, like the new owner coming.

Are you calling for that?

I said maybe.

Okay, if—

be careful.

In the spirit of consistency, he is, he's calling for it.

Um, but that's exciting if you're a pod, if you're a podhead. Yeah, Pod— Pods Nation.

I mean, I— they're— where'd she come from?

I don't know.

Like, what, like, what is she just— I— did she just buy it?

No, I think her—

I don't mean literally, I mean her husband.

Oh yeah, I think her and her husband bought it.

Got it.

I don't know anything about it.

Oh, she's a singer-songwriter investor. Oh, okay.

But her and her husband share a net worth, by the way, $3.9 to $5.5 billion.

When I say when somebody says that they're a singer-songwriter investor and they own a sports team, what they're really saying is they're an investor.

Yeah. I didn't know that the Padres— I didn't know the Padres got bought. That's what I'm saying. Like, when did that happen?

August 2026.

Yeah, remember? Because their former owner was sick and that's why he went all in and did the Soto trade.

That's right.

And that's why the Nats got, okay, the best farm system in baseball.

Got it.

Got it.

All right. Good, cool, turn.

Yeah. Pods.

Pods.

All right.

PFT, how's it going?

My hot seat is LeBron James.

LeBron James.

And I'm sad that, that Max isn't here right now to have this discussion. But in the Lakers and Dodgers news that we've been following for the last couple of days, Uh, there's a news story that came out just a couple minutes ago and that LeBron James, when he was signing with the Los Angeles Lakers, remember he signed $154 million contract with the Lakers. Uh, that actually was only half as big as the deal that he had just signed with a Midwest life insurance company for $300 million loan. Yeah. And so that loan that he signed with with, uh, was there were companies that were advised by a branch of Guggenheim.

Okay.

Investments, which is what the owner of the Lakers and the Dodgers— that's his company. Arranged by when he signed it.

Okay.

So I'm putting up the Pablo Torre bat signal right now. I'm sure—

why was LeBron needing immediate cash?

I mean, it'd still be nice to have $300 million if maybe—

I agree, but like, maybe if you're making LeBron need cash for it, maybe if you're making a movie if you're—

if your production company is making—

or is he trying to buy a team?

A big budget movie. But this was in 2018.

Huh.

So is he going to be not— he's not going to be eligible to play this year?

LeBron?

Yeah.

Oh no, he's fully eligible.

No, I'm just hoping that's the case.

Fully eligible, right, as of now. But the, the NBA has not issued a statement yet. I think it's interesting.

Hey, did you see LeBron's being investigated?

Nope.

Okay, well, you should probably take a quick break from the sex vacation and look into this investigation. This is fake. No, hey Max, no, PFT actually just said it.

So Max, months before he signed with the Lakers, the most reliable LeBron sources out there. Yeah, I would say I'm number one, probably.

Okay.

Oh, you know what, we can't trust Max. Max is compromised. You're too—

no, I'm not compromised. You compromised from the start.

How am I compromised?

Any LeBron news coming from you guys is is obviously fake.

You, you sent me the Shams article.

That was actually—

that was about Joel Embiid.

All Sixers news from you guys compromised.

Uh, Max, follow-up question. Uh, when you got stung by a jellyfish, did you have to piss on yourself? Uh, no, it was like— I actually should send you a picture of the, the damage. It was the biggest nothing thing of all time. Oh, but did you piss on yourself just for fun? I have. I've— I actually have gotten a sea urchin. It's not really a sting.

I've stepped on a sea urchin.

I've had to piss myself.

I want Shane to call Max a pussy. Okay, okay.

Piss myself.

Piss on myself.

Yeah, Max, Shane has something to say to you.

Max, Shane has something to say to you. Shane, say it.

Yeah, bolt up.

No, no, say it, Shane.

Bolt up, pussy.

Oh, he called you a pussy. Sorry, he called you a pussy.

I know, I heard. That's tough.

That's tough to come back from. Yeah. Are you gonna—

are you gonna—

he called Hank a pussy, uh, on Monday's show and then apologized for calling him a pussy, which is the most pussy thing to do.

That's Shane though.

Yeah. All right, we miss you. Uh, look at this LeBron investigation. It's actually a real thing. We're not fucking with you. Look into it. Okay, Max.

Max, you got $300 million in a guaranteed loan.

Get a guaranteed loan.

And that was approved by companies that were associated with Walter's Guggenheim.

Guggenheim. Walter's.

Look into it.

All right, bye.

All right. So, yeah, LeBron might not play next year.

Yeah, that's what I got away.

That'd be crazy.

Yeah. I listened to a full podcast about Mark Walter.

Mm-hmm.

That guy, he's— he's— he's in too deep.

Well, I mean, he was taking like people's— people were paying him money every month for life insurance. Then he was loaning that money he was getting.

Yeah.

To the Dodgers ticket department and then not— IOUs to himself and not marking it as being— and he was saying it was an unaffiliated loan when it was to his other company.

Crazy, crazy bad guy.

And if he's giving that money to LeBron, I think we got to at least do a full investigation.

Agreed.

Agreed.

All right.

Also, he might be racist. LeBron. True. So look into that.

What do you do?

Well, that's what President Trump said.

Oh, yeah.

He might be.

What?

He doesn't like Donald Trump?

He doesn't know. He doesn't know yet. We're looking into it.

He said he might be. I stand with Mr. Trump.

All right.

What you have? Yeah, it sounds like you got TDS, big cat.

I didn't know he said that.

Yeah, he did.

That's very funny.

I missed that.

I think it was on the day that LeBron signed with the Sixers.

Oh, okay.

Excuse me. My cool throne is the Army. Oh, Army's on the cool throne. What was that?

What's that, Hank?

You doing horns up?

Yeah. Rock and roll.

For the Army?

Rock and roll for the Army.

Love that. So There's a new incentive that the United States Army has put into place for one unit based out of Georgia. When it comes to reenlistment, they're trying to get people to reenlist for a minimum of 2 years at a time, up to 6 years at a time, but minimum 2 years. And if they're struggling to meet those quotas, they have a new incentive for those soldiers. The incentive is that they will give you 4 days off from the Army to play the new Grand Theft Auto when it comes out. You get 4 days with GTA and then time's up. Sorry, you got to go back to war. But those 4 days are pretty fucking sweet.

That is sweet.

Yeah.

Solid incentive for sure. You'd have to swap the snacks out though during those 4 days. No MREs. You'd have to like— you'd have to bring in the good stuff.

Yeah, I think that they should give you like a furnished apartment with a comfortable chair, a nice couch. Ethernet, big-ass TV, lightning-fast Ethernet, sick lighting setup, and you know, all the delivery food that you want.

Yep.

But you get to— yeah, you get to play GTA for 4 days, and then you got 2 more years of that. You got to go back to war for 2 years.

Thoughts on if you beat the game, don't have to fully enlist?

Mm-hmm. I like that.

Like a speedrun, like, hey, if I can get to the end, I don't actually—

would we want them to enlist? Like, those guys are badasses.

Actually fair.

Those are the best guys. Those guys.

Yeah.

Yeah. You guys, you get promoted to— you're on the drone missions. Yeah. Like, you don't— okay, you don't have to actually be in the theater, but we're going to just like install a new copy of a game onto your computer. We're not going to tell you that it's a game or we're going to tell you it's a game. We're not going to tell you it's real life and just try to get the high score on this one too. I know it looks like it's the Ukrainian plane. Don't worry about that. It's not— it's a video game. Yeah, carry on. But yeah, this is a— it's a great incentive that they have. And probably the worst Sunday scaries that you could ever have on like day 4. Yes, day 3, day 4 of playing GTA and it's been awesome. And then you're like, oh shit, I gotta go. I got— I got 2 more years training. All right, see you guys. Got to go back. Yeah, that's facts.

All right, my hot seat is Anyone who had a good run, because it's always sad when a good run ends. I think we can all agree, right?

Burgers.

Max, what?

No, put on— make sure Hank's mic's on. He said burgers and then he said Max won't know. Um, no, anyone who's like, oh, your mic's on, right?

I couldn't really hear it.

Anyone who said it's good, it was a good run, right? Oh, like that, that to me would be like, hey, that was a good— like, hot, hot seat, it's over.

No, it was a good season.

Wait, who are we talking about?

Bryson DeChambeau again?

Yeah, Bryson DeChambeau. He said it was a good run.

Everyone posts that shit when a season ends. Really?

Yeah.

Okay, what about when a league ends?

The league's not over.

Okay, it's just shifting. So that was just a good run for the— for the cliques?

Uh, Crushers.

Crushers. Did they have a good run?

They had a good season.

Okay, and these all— these pictures are all from this season?

Uh, that—

he wears the same fucking uniform every day. Okay, you can't Okay.

Okay.

It's tough to tell.

It was a good run.

Probably not because he's wearing shorts in the first one.

Oh, no. So that's from the beginning of—

that's going to go down as the biggest bait and switch of all time that Liv was like, you get to wear shorts.

So, Hank, would you say that would be weird if like— so let's, let's throw this out there. If LeBron—

Max back—

if LeBron after this year said it was a good run and he posted a picture of him in a Sixers uniform, a Lakers uniform, a Cavs uniform, and a Heat uniform. Would you think he is saying it was a good run this year or he's retiring and it's all over?

Retiring.

Okay, maybe he's probably not retiring, but maybe he is. Okay, it was a good run.

It was a good run.

It was a really good—

it was a hell of a—

it was a hell of a run. We had the best of times with this run. I think we could all agree.

Yeah, they made major waves.

Yeah.

Does Crushers— do they not even have a Wikipedia page?

Oh, they gotta, they gotta.

I don't think they do. They might be trying to look up their history of finishes and can't find it.

Crushers GC, uh, that's what I looked up. My cool throne. I have a couple, uh, Cal Raleigh 3-home run night. We are not, uh, as good friends of Big Dumper Cal Raleigh. We are choosing to ignore the majority of this season, but maybe if he goes on a little heater, we'll start remembering from here on out. So 3-home-run night, first 3 home runs, uh, in his, uh, 3-home night in his career. Pretty cool for him. Happy for him. Also, uh, for anyone who— I said this last episode, but I made an NIL donation to Wisconsin. I also am running a little fun thing where I got 50 season tickets to Wisconsin Badgers, 50 pair, uh, 25 pairs, so 50 total. And you have till Thursday look at my social to see how you could potentially win one of the pairs of season tickets. And then my other cool throne is, uh, Luka because he's skinny again, which is just—

I think he just—

Luka just— he's, he's Oprah.

He go—

he yo-yos. Like, he— I, I kind of do the same thing. He looks very skinny, but like where I'll just lose 10— I'll fluctuate £10 back and forth constantly.

This is, this is Los Angeles. Yeah, that's what that is.

He looks hot.

I'll tell you what, Luka would not be able to play at Virginia Tech or Wisconsin.

No, absolutely.

Beefiest boys.

Beefiest boys. That list is so funny, the list of the, the biggest colleges. And I think Wisconsin was standalone, right, at like £242.

Yes, it actually gave me— because like, you know, I talked about donating to NIL and doing this stuff and trying to get more involved. It was the first time I felt a little hope about the Wisconsin Badgers football program, which I do think we're going to have a good year. And I'm all bought in with, with Fickle and trying to right the ship. But seeing that graphic, it's like, yes, this is what it should be. Yeah, we should be the fattest all the time. Yep, every single time. Uh, Zach, finish this off.

My, uh, my hot seat this week is going to be most of the teams in the Premier League, because did you guys see that Erling Haaland has reached final form?

Yeah, he shaved his head.

He's done what any man does when he needs a drastic life change, and he went one guard all the way around. Wow. They're undefeated since he's made this adjustment.

How many games?

Uh, through one.

Okay.

Is he gonna lose his powers though? Like, this— Samson did that, right, in the Bible?

Uh, not to get— I, I'm not too familiar to get biblical, but I do know you don't see too many Vikings going shaved head. Maybe he's, he's left that for the World Cup and he's now ready to go. Uh, other quick update on that, uh, Tottenham did lose their first game. Chelsea did win their first game.

Tottenham lost.

That's correct.

Okay.

Be a real shame.

What team are you rooting for again?

I'm a Chelsea guy. We did— we are 1-0 in the season.

Oh, the guy that owns the, uh, the Dodgers.

That's a whole— that's a money thing. We're talking on pitch, you know.

That's cool.

Yeah, it's—

you giving out any loans to your players?

I don't think—

because he did to LeBron James.

Some are saying companies affiliated—

$300 million.

What a loan.

That'd be a great day.

Yeah, you sign on that, which just means he's probably a good investor when that loan comes due and probably 30 years at like whatever small interest rate he charged him. He'll probably make $10 million off that loan.

If LeBron gets incredibly in tight up for that, $300 million, is that worth it to LeBron to like go into major, major issues legally? Maybe.

I don't know. He's got—

I think he's got like—

I feel like what I've learned from all of this is rich people just loan money, uh, from themselves, from other rich people, then leverage it and make even more money and then pay it back. Like, they just take out— they're— they have money and then they're like, hey, you know what, I'm gonna put— I'm gonna take $100 million of your money and invest it, make it— make $200 million, then I'll give you $10 million back.

Let me—

that's just how they keep making money. You hold money for a piece, let me get that, circle it around. Yeah, I'll use your money to make myself more money and then I'll give you a little bit of the money that you gave me, uh, back. And then some.

And then sometimes if you have a lot of money, you're like, I'm gonna start this league and we're gonna lose like every dollar of my money, um, but it doesn't matter because I just have more money.

And also it doesn't matter because it was a good run.

It was a good run. It was a good run. Don't forget the friends we made along the way.

Cool.

Uh, cool thing this week is going to be the MAC. Uh, did you guys see the roster move that Ball State made?

No.

Uh, Ball State, all-time roster move.

Yes.

Keldrick Gluster.

Yes.

We're talking 5'10", 250.

Yes. Height and weight. Yes.

Absolute unit.

Dude, this is, this is, this is why the MAC is the best league. Um, and it— this happens like every couple of years in the MAC. There was a Central Michigan kid who actually was really good, like I loved watching him play, who was kind of a similar build. And this is what they do. They, they, they can bring back fatter or bad body quarterbacks and make them cool.

What number is he wearing?

We gotta find that.

I hope it is. Is it 6?

What was his measurables again?

5'10", 250.

Okay, 5'10", 250.

I love that.

That's so good.

And he's running through shit.

Yeah, yeah, that's so good.

You know Drew Allard, 6'5", 240.

240, 245.

6'5", 245.

I believe it's 245. Fuck, yeah, so big.

That guy can play ball, man.

Yeah, he can.

Yeah, he can.

On a roster sheet, he can play ball.

Some guys are— some guys are meant to be in the NFL.

Yep.

Some guys, the stripes being held back. Some guys, the stripes on the ball, they distract them.

Yep.

All right.

Do you have any other—

and then other quick cool thrown, uh, Tempe Buccaneers, because Ring of Honor member John Gruden says that Baker and the Bucs are close to getting things done.

Oh, oh, I was confused. I forgot they were in a contract dispute. I thought they were close to getting things done like like winning the Super Bowl.

Oh, I mean, that's on the horizon as well. We're not throwing that out.

But that's good. Good for Baker. We want— we root for Baker. We want— Baker deserves to get paid. The end of the book should be crazy.

Not— he said he couldn't speak to, uh, any inside scoop, but he feels as if they're close.

Okay, so this might be Malasek.

This could be Malasek.

Malasek say this, or did Gruden say this?

These things aren't to be, you know, aren't to be known.

Yeah, they're not meant to be known by us. But great things to know is that, uh, I hope, I hope you're right, Zach.

Yeah, Baker deserves to be paid.

He does.

Leave us in a good spot. Pay the man. Family man. Leader of men.

Pay the man his money. Okay, let's do, uh, Mount Rushmore. You guys ready?

Oh, I'm ready. Mount Rushmore, you ready?

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Kraken Card is live in the US now. Go to kraken.com. Barstool.com/bar stool to learn more. Okay, Mount Rushmore time!

Mt.

Rushmore of—

Hank?

Prompt again: non-ball sports items. And uh, we are down to the wire boys, we have 5 Mt. Rushmores left.

Yep, PFT bought a bottle of champagne earlier.

Oh good for you, PFT! He's up 9-5 or 5-4 so what's your magic number right now?!

Wait wait wait wait wait wait...

I know it was like this one thing that he liked but then when they were talking about football stuff on there Wait, Hank, I love that.

Hank's right, I did. I did request a bottle of champagne. Hank, I'm rent-free inside your head.

Is that true?

I am rent-free. I told Dom, I was like, I don't want to jinx it, but like, New York Times bestseller list comes out on Wednesday. Oh no, you didn't say that. Yeah, yeah. And then, and then Hank thought that I was talking about beating his ass in Mount Rushmore so thoroughly. No cigars. But Dom, you can confirm this was related to to possible good news for the book. Yeah.

Hey, hey, that's embarrassing. That means he is rent-free. That's an embarrassing look.

That is.

You thought I cared enough about, about beating you in Mount Rushmore to order a bottle of champagne?

1v1v1 off with literally no punishment decided?

Hey, it was, it was outside. It was outside the cabin.

Yeah. Rico Bosco had night terrors. I got like 2 hours of sleep.

The building was like— basketball building was nice.

It was right before we started recording.

The chair was at a weird angle and we—

I think we—

by the way, these are, these are prime fart, uh, chairs.

Oh dude, you gotta check that out. You have to go check that out.

I should have put the mic on that one.

There were some bubbles at the end.

Yeah, there were, there were. I— hey, I'm not gonna deny there were bubbles at the end.

There were bubbles at the end. Can you check your boxers? So bad, Zach.

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, dude.

Zach's just sitting there getting— no, it's waterboarded.

Dude, it's bad. It is so bad.

That thing ripped out of your ass.

Oh dude, I'm—

I'm—

I really— yeah, yeah, it's got an aftertaste. Oh, it has an aftertaste. I am sorry.

You know, like when you're playing the battle royale—

Zach, I'm legit sorry, man.

All good. When you're playing battle royale and like the gas first starts to get to you, that cough, that— that's what you're doing right now.

I'm trying to get the air moving.

These are good fart chairs. They just ripped one as hard as you could.

Well, I've been thinking about it since I sat down. I'm like, damn, this would— this would sound awesome. All right, where were we? Oh, you're— you're PFT owning you.

Yeah, that was—

that was, uh, I'm just focused on this. I think about the show all the time. I'm not thinking about personal accolades.

And, and the book is part of the show. It's a little—

yeah, and you're part of that. It's like he was gonna have you sip some champagne.

Yeah, it's for all of us.

But I'm— I think about the podcast and, and putting out an entertaining product, not celebrating like past accomplishments.

No, this should be actually like a current, like—

but like, that book's out. I'm on to the next book. I'm ready for the next book.

Yeah, like, I—

like, the second book was done, I would focus on the next book.

I would love for you to be a book writer.

You know what, would you?

Yeah.

Hey, how about this? Zach Hank, loser of Mount Rushmore, has to write a book. Minimum. Okay, it can be like—

what's the page?

Short book, minimum 50 pages.

I don't like that, but I don't hate it either.

Next book.

And, uh, photo use and font counts up to the, the author, right?

Of course.

Yeah, I would say like photo, no more than 50% of the book should be pictures.

There, I would understandable. All right, so PFT was not buying champagne for Mount Rushmore season. We are, uh, 9 to 5 to 5. Whose pick is first?

I think I pick first.

Zach. Zach. Hank, it doesn't smell anymore, dude.

He just farted.

Oh, I'm gonna fart again at some point, but I'll let you guys know because these chairs are—

TMZ.

These chairs are so good.

I mean, if we're in the process of interviewing an NFL coach, I think maybe—

yeah, Zach, you're up first. Who's up second?

Hank.

Oh, Hank's in there, dude. You got— we got to start getting this— we got to get the mics on there.

For the non-ball sports item, first pick, I think it pairs very well with the ball. I'm gonna go baseball bat.

Oh, bat first? Okay, okay.

Nice.

I had that on the list.

I had that on the list as well.

I had it on my list, which I made, and it's 3 things.

I am a football guy through and through. There's a football podcast. I'm gonna go with a helmet.

Oh, football helmet.

Guardian helmet.

Yep. I mean, we're in the cap. Okay, no helmet, but Guardian helmet.

Helmet.

You don't care about their brains?

It doesn't— I don't think it makes a difference.

It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter, their brains.

I think there was actually a new study that was like, it's like way ramped up.

Than what they thought.

Yeah, unfortunately, really bad study. Anything that's 1 in 4 death is not good.

Yeah. Okay, I'm going to go with basketball hoop.

Ah, or as Ted Cruz called it, a ring.

Yeah, the basketball ring. Uh, basketball, like the entire goal. I'm taking like the backboard and, uh, the rim.

Good pick.

Oh, you're getting both?

Basketball hoop?

Yeah, you're getting the backboard and the rim.

It's the goal. It's the basketball.

Okay, 10 foot.

Uh, yeah, 10 feet. Yeah. Oh, you think maybe couche?

I just want to try something, you know.

Couche is kind of—

it is kind of fun. Okay, I'm gonna go basketball hoop number one. Number two, I'm gonna go golf clubs.

Yeah, I can't believe Hank didn't pick that one.

One good pick, especially for women. Yeah, they're allowed to partake as well.

Anyone, they're forever—

safely.

Yeah, that's my pick.

Oh, we should remake the ad. And it's, uh, a tailor-made, uh, righty. Hank goes to grab it. Hank punches himself in the face. That's pretty good.

That is a good idea.

Yeah, with his left hand.

Yes, yes.

Don't touch my righty club. Yeah, you're like, don't touch a righty club.

You just start beating the fuck out of yourself. That'd be pretty good. We should maybe do it.

Uh, I'm gonna go with baseball glove.

Oh, that's a great one.

I had that.

Mitt.

Baseball mitt.

That—

there's a difference, by the way. We all agree a glove becomes a mitt. Yeah, it's like a caterpillar into a—

when it's in the store, like if you're buying in a store, it's just— it's a glove.

And but when it—

when you—

second you take it out of your mattress, like you sleep on it for a couple nights, yep, it becomes a mitt.

Once you put oil on it, it's a mitt.

Yeah, yeah, the oil, the mattress, the rubber bands.

You go shopping for a glove but you wear a mitt.

The way you talked about my fart, now you're just ripping ass left and right.

I never— that was just a— that was a test.

Uh, his mic's not on. PFT's going, PFT's going. Check, check, check, check, check.

It went away.

You got to do it on the chair though. The chair is what makes it special. Check, check, check. Are you back? Uh, check, check, check, check, check. Do you want mitt or glove? I think you want glove.

Yeah.

Okay.

Is this working?

I don't know.

Oh no, Max Merchant. Memes the Max Merchant. This wouldn't be happening. Max is here.

Okay.

Oh, here we go. Check, check, check.

Hey Memes, Max, can you turn this up?

We've got a lot going on right now.

It went away again.

Okay, I'm going to take the 3-point line.

Check, check, check, check. The 3-point line?

Yeah, definitely. Nothing better than a deep 3, boys.

Yeah, speaking of merchants—

what?

There was— look, there was an era of basketball with no 3-point line. Yeah, I prefer that.

Right, but just taking it— I'm gonna take the 3-point line.

Yeah, 3-point line.

It ruined the sport.

Okay, the 3-point line.

Basketball was objectively better before the 3-point line. That's when good basketball teams could win and it wasn't about who could make a trick shot. The best.

The 3-point line.

Yes, sir.

So if I showed you— what did you like, what did you take? Did you just take painter's tape?

No, I'm just—

I, oh, I took the— I'll give him the line.

Would PFT speak be like, uh, plexiglass and steel?

Yeah, we know what these kids are made of, right? Right, right. Okay, but like, okay, never mind. There's like, he—

never mind.

He's got a hoop, he's got a glove.

Uh, we're good, we're on the same page. We understand what he means by 3-point line.

He's got a helmet, he's got several items, he's got a mitt. 3-point line. All right, I didn't mean to do that to you.

No, we're good, we're good.

A lot of picks, a lot of good picks left out there on the board.

What?

You're up again.

You're not—

again, I would like—

he's gonna take Kreese in the hockey.

I like to take receiver gloves.

There we go, now you're back.

Good pick.

I like that. Nothing better than playing catch when you have receiver gloves on. You just feel like you can catch everything.

Or doing the chop.

Yes, you become a professional wide receiver at any age.

Every single— yeah, get the hands together. Oh, it's so— it's a great feeling. That's a good pick. We can bounce back for the 3-point line.

I thought it was a great pick?

My, my pick next, I'm going to take that— this, you know, sports wouldn't be sports without these— jerseys.

Ah, it's just jerseys. Okay, that's—

Shane just shook his head. Yeah, finally some respect.

Nice pick, Hank.

Like, I'm like, if, if you were watching a game, they didn't have jerseys on, you wouldn't know what's going on.

You're absolutely right.

Shirts for skins.

What shirts?

Uh, the absence of skin.

Skins.

But like, it'd be, you know, you got a white shirt, you gotta got a green shirt, you gotta got a black shirt, right?

It would not— a jersey, those aren't jerseys.

It would be hard. It wouldn't be— it would be hard to tell what's going on.

Wait, are you taking shirts? Are you taking—

I'm taking jerseys.

Okay, so shirts for Skins, what about that?

I'm saying, but like, if the— if everyone is wearing just whatever shirt, like, we did shirts for Skins right now and still triggers me. Those four were—

it does, does it not—

were shirts. Like, they wouldn't look like an organized team. They would look like a rapscallions.

If someone yells shirts for skins, I'm immediately like, oh fuck, I'm that meme, the, the guy at war just looking off into the distance. Oh, that was a little toot. That was a girl fart.

Yeah, that's cute. Yeah, very good pick. Hey, thanks.

Let that fart touch my driver.

I didn't think about jerseys, I'll be honest. Yeah, no, jersey's a good pick. Caught me off guard.

I also didn't think about 3-point line.

Me neither.

Something to think about.

All right, PFT, you have 2 picks.

Okay, I'm gonna go swimming pool. Oh yeah, swimming pool. So it's just swimming as a sport. Oh, I just got a swimming pool. Damn, pretty—

that's a good pick.

Where does, uh, swimming rank on your sports?

It doesn't matter, this is not the best sports.

But hold on, I think you have to take Olympic-sized swimming pool.

No, I just took swimming pool because you could also dive into it.

There's nothing worse than when all the lanes are set up and you're trying to swim.

No, because there's a difference between a backyard swimming pool and a The one that's played with sport, you could— is a little different, but you could also dive into a pool.

That's the deep end. You could also play water polo in a pool. I think swimming pools, I think it counts.

Okay.

And then I'm gonna go race car. Oh yeah, I'm just basically taking kick-ass shit with rounds 3 and 4.

PFT, can I, can I do something?

Yeah.

The race car and swimming pool in 3 and 4, I mean, that's a really nice— and, and I, I, you know what, I should stop talking.

Can't help himself. Uh, I'm gonna take smelling salts.

Okay, good pick. I like those, give you a little boost.

What I was trying to do for PFT there Oh, again, you got a strong drive. I mean, yeah, you got a strong—

I could see the look in Hank and Zach's eyes when I took— just when I said swimming pool.

Yeah, it fucked him up. Yeah, they, they got fucked up. What was your pick? It was forgettable, but tell—

ah, Smelling Salts.

Okay, yeah, good pick.

All right, you can get—

I actually do think that was a good pick.

That is a good pick.

I'm also gonna go I'm gonna take a recovery route and I'm gonna go Theragun.

Oh, okay, okay.

Yeah, I don't hate that.

I like it. Do you own one?

I didn't bring one with me, no.

All right, what, what do we— do you ever use one?

Oh, certainly. Yeah, all athletes, you know, you got to recover, got to work out the muscles. Definitely. Do you put it on that? Of course.

Yeah.

Zach, you've never used one, have you? Yeah, of course.

Yeah, he's used one.

Yeah.

Uh, what do we miss? The memes. Memes sent me one single pic.

Would hockey puck have been Allowed.

Yeah, that would have allowed— Memes sent me one single pic, it was just a cup, which— yeah, I had jockstrap. Yeah, especially when you're a little kid, clipboard. When you're a little kid playing Little League baseball and you just found out like what your penis and balls are. Yeah, you're like— and you're like, I don't really trust my hands yet to, to stop this ball from hitting my nuts. The cup was very important. It felt like Superman.

And kids in baseball all that grow up with, you know, mostly synthetic turf fields. I've seen, you know, a lot of those in Little League.

Yep.

So you don't have to mow the grass. They don't know that when we grew up, like, a bad hop was every hop.

Yeah, you don't have that.

You don't have bad hops anymore, but it was every ground ball would be a bad hop. So kids were just getting drilled in the dick left and right.

I also will say off of that, uh, the like Little League culture, there's been a lot of talk about like all the gear and stuff. I'll just fully admit it, and this might make me lame, but if I were— if you could— if I could snap my fingers, I was 12 years old in 2026, I would 100% have a sliding glove, even though I'm not fast. Those things are fucking sick.

Yep.

Because you get an extra like 3 inches sliding into the base.

Yeah.

And it's cool to put it on when you get on first base.

Yeah, I'd probably have 2 of them.

Like, I know it's probably lame because like, again, I'm not a fast guy. Yeah, I'm not someone who's stealing bases, but I would put it on and steal zero bases.

Yeah, that's— it's like a kicker wearing a guardian cap.

Yeah.

Yeah, but it would, it would feel awesome. Yeah, you would feel faster, and I think that would make you just like a slightly tiny bit faster.

I think people get confused a little bit with like the, uh, Little League culture and like the travel ball, and that discussion is actually a real discussion that I think is a fair one to have because like when we were growing up, I think actually all of us, uh, you just played, you just played your local town, like you didn't play anything else, you played your local town. That's all you did. And now it's got out of hand. The one thing though that gets confused is then people will post videos of like kids doing hype, hype videos of their Little League team with all the gear, and they're like, this has gotten too— listen, those kids feel so cool. It feels like when you put on all that gear and you get a fucking neon yellow bat, you probably feel like the coolest kid in the world. Let the kids feel cool.

Don't act like when you got your first baseball uniform or your first pair, like your first glove you didn't go to sleep at night wearing that baseball uniform.

Don't act like you didn't walk around in your basketball— your new basketball shoes.

Yes, all day.

By the way, that was— I saw you, I saw your picks and you had— yeah, basketball shoes were a great pick.

Nobody picked basketball.

You had them. Basketball. Kobe 7s, great basketball cleats, are big. Uh, batting gloves, shooting sleeve, that's another one.

I just— I can't believe nobody pick basketball.

Basketball shoes is a huge miss.

You can make the argument that that's a first round pick.

Yeah, well, I don't know, dude, that first round was pretty good. And then think about it, we had the 3-point line in the second round.

Actually, Hank, race car was my last pick that I had.

I know, I'm saying that was a great pick.

Thank you.

Yeah, and swimming pool.

And swimming pool.

Swimming pool is like, that's a PFT special where it's like not really a pick, but I think, I think swimming pools have—

PFT is just kind of like everyone's giving up fighting in the summer.

Ballpark, or like if we could have taken like football field. Yeah, like those are like— this one was like the arena.

You should have taken Wrigley. Yeah, you've just taken—

you've taken uprights was still out there.

You've done a great job of picking some dumb bullshit answers that like everyone's just kind of given up fighting.

I think that's a perfectly fine— I will—

of course you do.

I will agree with you that I have picked a lot of dumb bullshit answers. Yes, this is not one of them.

Right.

This is, this is the blind pick.

You sound a little salty. No, I respect it.

It's like he's, he's done a good job. Like, you can't—

I also had on my list the Goodyear blimp. Um, boxing gloves would have been a big one.

Boxing gloves.

Boxing gloves.

Yeah. Skycam, the blue medical tent, and the uprights.

Backplate, visor.

No pop champagne toast after this draft. Yeah, man, I've been thinking, nothing sweeter, nothing sweeter than pouring that first glass of champagne after coming in third to last in Mount Rushmore season.

No, second.

No, it would be second, technically be second. Max Memes and I came in first. Whoever wins this comes in second.

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

All right, let's get to our interviews. We got Chris Long and Seth Wickersham.

Before we get to our great friend Chris Long, he's brought to you by Mountain Dew. I'm drinking some Mountain Dew right now. Who else has some dew?

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Here's Chris Long.

Okay, we now welcome on a very, very special guest. It is our our good, good friend Chris Long, 2-time Super Bowl champion. We're going to talk some football. You can listen to him on the Greenlight Pod. Chris is the absolute man. But Chris, we were just talking for a second there and we said, oh man, I can't— I'm so excited for football to be back. And you agreed. You're ready for football to be back. But I remember that every single offseason, you're the guy who does the video who's like, oh, what am I going to do without football? Making fun of guys like us.

No, it's not guys like you.

Now you want it back.

You're gonna get guys like us— me. Yeah, it's not, it's not, it's not you guys. It's like, I don't know, it's the people that feel like they have to get so into character that they act like, you know, what are, what are we gonna do the next 6 months? There's plenty of stuff on TV, you know, people have families, enjoy. Yeah, World Cup was awesome.

Yeah, yeah, you know, like draft, there's a lot of stuff.

It's more just that plug-and-play tweet where you're, you know, the last Sunday, you know, you count the Sundays till the next NFL Sunday. I'm like, dude, okay, that's fair.

Yeah, it's just, it's unoriginal at this point because you don't have to do math to figure out how much longer we have to wait for football. And we get it. Like, we— a real football guy knows just by like the temperature outside how close we are.

Real football guy doesn't do math. No, no, real football guy just walks outside. That's right.

And I agree with you. Like, I love the sports calendar because when football ends, I'm ready to stop watching football for a minute. And I do love March Madness, and I do love, you know, NBA and NHL playoffs. But this, like, somewhere around, I don't know, like early, probably right after Fourth of July, it's like, okay, it's football time. That's when I start to get like angst, you know, angsty and anxious and being like, I, I started firing off the can't wait for college football tweet. That happens whenever it just pops in my head. I'm like, goddamn it, I can't wait.

I mean, Minor League Football.

Oh yeah, well, yeah, you could make the argument maybe Professional football is minor league football for college football now.

Uh-huh. You're right.

It's like flipped on itself now.

Yeah.

Well, what about the college game, Chris? Like, are you a real football guy like us? Like, if your son gets married and he chooses that he's gonna get married on like October 19th, are you gonna go to his wedding in the fall?

Because he, he's gonna go better than that. I'm gonna go to the wedding. I'm gonna go to the wedding with my phone horizontal leaned against like a flower arrangement on the table and I'm gonna be watching football.

That's my favorite debate because that's one where it does become performative at times. It's like, don't ask me to do anything on a Saturday. Like, I'm not doing chores. I'm not taking my kid to the doctor's office if he gets sick. It's Saturday. I'm watching some fucking college football.

Don't talk to me.

Like humans haven't been for at least the last 15 years. Yeah, you can bring a phone to a wedding and you can be antisocial at the function.

I've done it. It's, it's, uh, it's, it's just fine, you know. I've been to a couple March Madness weddings. I went one time, I went to a Baltimore wedding and it was in March and it happened to be the night that, um, we lost to UMBC.

Oh no.

And it was a— oh dude, I walked in in the morning and everybody was like, we're gonna get you tonight. And I was like, fuck you guys. Oh, and, uh, yeah, so yeah, sports weddings.

Uh, wait, that, by the way, that actually might be the worst experience when you go to something with a game that you know was happening, but you're like, I don't actually have to worry about this game, it's formality. And then having it hit you slowly, like, oh fuck, I think I have to worry about this game. Like, I have to start worrying about this game.

Yeah, first half I was pretty worried about that game. And, uh, that you keep repeating, it's a game of runs, and the run never came for us.

So, and you were at a wedding, you happened to be at an event with UMBC grads, like alumni.

I didn't know they had events events where there were UMBC people en masse, but I found the one.

That's crazy.

It happened to be the worst. That was the worst, dude. One of the, one of the worst. You know when you wake up hungover and like it takes you a second to remember what happened last night? Like, yeah, something bad happened. What happened? That was one of those mornings for sure, dude. It was, it was awful. But we're— hey, we won a national championship.

Yeah.

So I totally forgot about it. Yeah. All's forgiven. All right, let's talk some football. I had a, a question for you to start off. As a defensive I feel like part of my prep going into the season is trying to figure out who's, who's new, who are the new play callers, both defensive and offensive. What's it going to look like? So my question to you as a player, how hard is it when you get a new defensive coordinator? Is it a, hey, it's going to take a month of live action in the regular season before we feel like we can just play freely in the system? Or is it something that we're all professionals, we can figure this out pretty quickly?

Well, I think for guys up front, the first thing you got to figure out is, hey, you know, what fronts are we running? You know, I've been in— you know, I've had 6 different D coordinators in an 11-year career, and, you know, 2 of them were both— it was Greg Williams and his son, so that's kind of one— Blake Williams— so it's kind of one system, um, you know. But the systems vary. Like, I came in a league And, you know, I'm in Spags' system playing in a 6 technique for a defensive end, which is way different than being in a 9 and, you know, just, uh, kind of rush, crush, close, or whatever Jim Schwartz would say later in my career. And, you know, Belichick's system is way different where you're getting checks at the line of scrimmage before the ball snap, on top of the play calls, which are really hard to remember, and that sort of thing. I mean, like, B-Flow was our coordinator at that point, so So, you know, the complication issue of a defense like that, like that can kind of slow guys down. And if you're a young player and you're in defense like that, half the battle is trying to play fast and play free and not think because like a lot of young players think.

And when you, when you get in those defenses, sometimes it can kind of slow you down. So it just depends on the defense. Like, you know, I think offensively there's only so many trees right now that are in vogue in the NFL. And so now you're seeing like the Ben Johnson tree and you had the McVay tree and that sort of thing. And but a lot of it, they're all souped up like kind of West Coast offenses. So I think offensively a lot of it is, hey, it's the same concepts, different terminology. You hear that a lot. But I think defensively playing in a varied front, like if you're in Buffalo and Jim Leonard comes to town, shout out Wisconsin Badgers, love them. Yeah, you're going from McDermott's defense, which is a lot of 4-man fronts, to a very multiple defense where guys are going to be in different alignments, a lot of SIM pressures, a lot of different kind of exotic looks. And for guys like Dion Walker, the young kid from Kentucky, who's like 6'7", at first you're like, how's he going to play a zero nose? But they're kind of playing a one-gap kind of defense and they're going to be in nickel a lot.

So it kind of all comes out in the wash. Um, you have worries about scheme fits, but, um, you know, the hard part is in today's NFL, you don't get the time, dude.

Like, that's why I figured like September, like if you have a new defensive coordinator, it could look rough for, for a couple weeks because you just, you don't have the time. You don't have—

they're not—

we're not playing starters in preseason for a lot of series. Like all this stuff, their guys are kind of missing out on.

Now, in some situations, you're simplifying things and, and, you know, it's a better scheme fit for a lot of the guys. So it just depends. And I think that the other thing that you talked about, which is, you know, trying to, trying to learn the new players, like not just the new schemes with new players, is really hard. I mean, you know, for somebody like myself who tries to cover the whole league, and I do, um, I'm still catching up, you know, the first week or two of the season on who some of these rookies are. And we get so overreactive, you know, we, we see one Twitter clip on a player and he's going to be the worst player in the world or the best player in the world. I'll give you an example. I, I think David Bailey is a, is a good pro prospect and, you know, certainly justifiable to pick him in the top 10 and that sort of thing. Um, you know, the one clip that was, was, you know, making the rounds this week and put him into the Hall of Fame was he beats Broderick Jones, but he doesn't, you know, it's Broderick Jones first off, but second off, like the drop target for the quarterback in that play is like 11 yards.

So, you know, there's little things where, you know, to an average football fan, it might look like, hey, this is a slam dunk. Or the other thing is you saw the Sonny Stiles clip this week where he comes downhill on a read option and it looks like the defensive end doesn't— we call that a surf technique where he's probably got the quarterback and Josh Dobbs pulls it for 60 yards. And now Sonny Stiles is the worst player to ever play football. And so, you know, like we just get so caught up in this kind of preseason hype thing I will tell you, there have been some really exciting rookies this year on the defensive front. And, you know, it's— that's the easiest thing for me to download because I played there. Um, but I need to see like 10, 15 plays. I just don't want to see one rep, right?

Yeah, it does. It's interesting with a lot of teams, like you mentioned, getting different defensive coordinators. And you've played for a couple different styles of coordinator. Like, is it harder as a defensive lineman? Do you just like— do you look at the linebackers and the corners and the safeties when you have a guy that's like obsessed with with exotic blitz packages coming in and you're like, good luck with that. Or is there things that you have to learn to do differently too if you're playing for like a Dr. Heat type guy?

Yeah, Dr. Heat type guys. I mean, if you're a defensive end and you like pinning your ears back and keeping things simple like a Jim Schwartz defense or something like that, or even the Jeff Fisher defenses on first and second down. Now we got into some odd fronts with Greg Williams and, you know, you're crossing face, you're looping, you know, over the center and that type of thing. But the hardest thing for a defensive lineman is you've got now varied techniques and pressures that you really have to rep. And you might be an all-world defensive end at just, you know, rushing the passer or setting an edge. But now you're spending 30% of your time looping inside and crossing a guard's face. You might drop into coverage. You know, you might be the curl flat guy on some pressures. And, you know, so there's a lot of things you have to remember. And then I talked about the build defense where you're getting checks at the line of scrimmage right before the ball snaps. So I think for a defensive lineman, it can be, it can be disruptive. But for the guys on the back end, that's where the, the tough stuff really is.

And, you know, I think about, um, for instance, we'll talk about the Eagles. The Eagles have, you know, Makuba and some safeties that, you know, with Reed Blankenship gone, that haven't played as much football. And you talk about how the importance of pre-snap shells and, and rotation post-snap, and, you know, kind of not giving tells pre-snap. Snap. So much of being a defensive back is like an art form, and how you show pressure, don't show pressure, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna rotate at the snap and all that stuff. And, and I think those little nuances kind of get lost in the wash. It's not just about not having an ME or a missed assignment, but it's also how you set up the pressures pre-snap. And are you in the right place? Are you giving the tells?

Yeah.

Are you, uh, sticking on the Eagles Yeah, where are we at with Jalen Hurts? I feel like you can go, you can go any direction in terms of he's being wildly disrespected, which I actually will buy because this is a guy who outplayed Patrick Mahomes in 2 Super Bowls. He won 1, lost 1. Or is it, hey, last year was so ugly at times that maybe he, maybe he can't do it without a perfect roster?

Well, I— here's what I want to see with Jalen Hurts, who, who has a great resume. I mean, he's played big on the biggest stage twice, right? Um, you know, when they played Kansas City 2 years ago, it was kind of a pick-your-poison thing with that team. You had great players outside, you have a quarterback that throws an elite deep ball in Jalen Hurts, and you've got probably one of the most dynamic rushing offenses that we've seen this century. I mean, I really do think the straw that stirred the rink with that team was, was the offensive line and Saquon and that run game and the way it affected box counts and all that stuff. And you got your matchups outside, but it was kind of a pick your poison thing. And Jalen torched the, the Chiefs. And even in that '24 season, you know, like as you aggregate the whole thing, the passing offense was fine. There were just some games where you, you say, hey, the floor— you'd like to see the floor raise a little bit. And when I watched them last year, the floor is too low. And, you know, it's too low for a quarterback of that caliber.

Caliber. And a lot of that is, is probably the scheme. And, you know, like we've talked about ad nauseam with the, with the terrible route concepts, the terrible spacing, the predictability. So, you know, I think Jalen's off the hook as far as last year is concerned, but you can't ignore the fact that the, the floor was so low on the passing offense. And, you know, like, I do think there is some pressure on him this year. You know, whatever you want to say about like what's fair, what's not fair, what should happen if he doesn't play, what, what should happen if he plays, well, um, you just can't deny that there is pressure on a passing offense after a performance like last year, and the quarterback's going to get a lot of the blame, fair or unfair. And I think the Manion offense is all about, hey, getting back to running the football effectively. A lot of that's going to be predicated on, um, the health of the offensive line. It's also turning your back to defense and delivering the ball in play action. It's pre-snap motion. It's all the things that, that, you know, the Eagles under center stuff, the stuff that the Eagles really didn't do a lot of.

And we'll find out whether that was, you know, a Jalen Hurts preference thing or if it was just truly a bad scheme. So, you know, we, we, it's Philly. It's like, you got to understand that the pressure's a little bit higher in Philly. Like, they fired a guy who has a statue outside the, outside the stadium 2 years later, you know, Carson Wentz. They, you know, they draft Jalen Hurts. Part of what makes the Eagles so dynamic is they're always, they say fuck the rules. We're gonna, we're gonna make the moves we have to make to, to be a better football team no matter what. And that, and that doesn't, um, we don't leave the quarterback out of that equation. So I think, uh, you know, to deny that there's pressure on the guy would be ridiculous. It's also ridiculous to say that, you know, he's a bad player, that he, he, he hasn't done what he's done, because his resume is, is fantastic. And a lot of teams would love to have Jalen Hurts. You just want to see a little bit more production in the middle field. You want to see the timing get a little bit better.

You will see the floor raise in that passing offense. I think Dontavian Wicks is going to help them a lot. He's a guy that kind of flies under the radar. He's an awesome man-beater guy, comes over from Green Bay. Virginia guy, so I'm a little bit biased, but I think he's going to take a lot of pressure off him. And, uh, you know, the tight ends are, are solid, so we'll see.

Yeah, I mean, the quarterback will get a lot of the blame if it goes bad. They'll boo the quarterback, but please don't boo Deshaun Sean. I think he's been through it all. We can agree, right?

Don't boo Deshaun, dude. That was— is it too much to ask? Just let me stink up a $230 million guaranteed contract for half a decade. Yeah, further sink this franchise into obscurity. I can't believe you guys have the audacity to boo a guy with all the civil cases and all that stuff.

Don't boo. What did you guys say?

But you know what's— well, you know what's funny to me? He was funny to me was the reaction to the Deshaun Watson press conference the talking heads were like, he's unplayable now. I'm like, now?

Yeah.

I'm like, so this is what it took?

Yeah, right.

It wasn't the civil cases, it wasn't the fact that he forgot to play football. And also, I think with the Deshaun Watson thing, people that— like, a lot of people don't realize this is if you go look at his hits and sacks in Houston, that guy was getting massacred. He was getting hit more than Burrow and Luck and all that stuff. And so I do think there's a physical toll that was taken on the player, even outside the mental stuff.

Yeah. My latest conspiracy about DeSean, and I don't really believe this, but it is funny how it worked out. He got that guaranteed contract, $230 million guaranteed. The other owners flipped the fuck out. They almost threw— they almost had a riot at Jimmy Haslam. They were like, we cannot give out guaranteed money. This is not the NBA. We can never allow this to happen. Happen ever again. And then it actually turned out that it was the perfect cautionary tale to why you shouldn't give out that much guaranteed money. Where now he went from like the owners being like, fuck you, Jimmy Haslam, to like, Jimmy Haslam, thank you so much.

Thank you for giving further proving our point.

And now it'll never happen again. No one's ever going to demand that we give, whether it's a free agent or a big trade that we make, a massive guaranteed contract like that.

No, no question. And the sad thing about the Browns is they really have drafted well at other positions. Yeah, I mean, and they did have Baker Mayfield in the building, and, you know, like, Baker won them a playoff game and they torched the Steelers, and, and they let the guy go. And, you know, like, I'm sure they'd still love to have him, but I think, uh, when you look at kind of the, the young talent, the Schwestingers of the world, the Fannins, um, you know, the offensive lineman they picked this year looks pretty good so far. Judkins The whole thing, it's a very talent-heavy roster. Like, our Concepción, like all these guys, like Mason Graham from last year, like Mason Graham under the radar. They got dudes. And you know, obviously they lose Miles Garrett. And then like under the radar thing, I think Alex Wright hurt his Achilles in joint practice. So, you know, the defense is not going to be maybe what it was last year, obviously. But I think they're building. That's the ironic part. Like, it's so easy to get caught up in the headliner, which is terrible. Which is that contract.

But they do have young talent.

You wait. I have a question about the booing. You as a player, you understand it's our right to boo because actually Kyle had this happen. Yeah. When I remember talking to him right after the Bears got in his feels.

Yeah.

Kyle's like, he called it unacceptable. The Bears fans, we booed after we went down. It was the game we lost to the Dolphins. Like Robbie Gould and Brandon Marshall fought after the game in the line, all this stuff. And he's like, he, he did a postgame— it was like unacceptable to boo. And I remember talking to him after and be like, dude, you can't say that. Like, we have a right—

we—

it's our right to boo whether you like it or not. We, we can boo.

I, I have a unique experience of playing for the St. Louis Rams for 8 years on terrible teams, and I don't have to go into details, but you know, there were a lot of fans there that were very gracious towards us. You know, it could have been a lot worse. Now part that's a Midwestern market, it's not a big market. It's not like even a— obviously Chicago's in Midwest, but Chicago's kind of like that, that, that rule breaker where it kind of feels like New York. I didn't have that experience, you know. For me, I always tried to keep it pretty cordial with the fans. It just doesn't do you any good, you know. And at the end of the day, like, I'm making a lot of money to play the game. And, you know, like, there's people that are spending their last dollar on these increasingly ridiculous ticket prices. To bring their families to games and that sort of thing. And, and there's people that have suffered a long time, and, and they do care. They care in a different way, as much as the players. Like, you know, players, they got to move on to the next thing.

These fans can, you know, they can wallow in it for a week. And so I totally get when fans are pissed off, and I might not always agree, and I might say, hey, they're, they're not seeing the full picture. But you're not gonna— you're never gonna win as the millionaire football player being like, hey, you don't have the right to you know, you paid $100 for this ticket and you can't boo me.

Yeah. Have you played on teams going into the season? It does feel like this is kind of what the Browns are looking like. A great defense, offense, not really anything to expect.

Many, but like many, many teams like that.

And I can only imagine how frustrating that gets during the season after you guys are playing your dicks off and you're just like, if you could score one touchdown a game, that would be great for us. But before the season starts, yeah. Yeah, you're probably dominating them in, in, uh, in training camp. It's, it's pretty clear to everybody in the locker room that one unit is, is way ahead of the other. What is the— what's the vibe like going into the season before any actual football has been played?

Well, you like to lie to yourself and say, hey, you know, the defense is always ahead of the offense in training camp. That's what it is. It's not that we're very— it's not that we're bad. And, you know, a lot of, a lot of bad teams, they spend money in free agency, and you bring somebody in and, you know, you can mistake, you know, activity for progress. And sometimes as players we get caught up in that thing where we, we know the, you know, the activity that the, the offense has taken in offseason. You're like, well, surely we'll be better. Um, you know, we had that for a long time, whether it was quarterback injuries or just a lack of talent. But, you know, we hit on some picks up front on defensive line. We had a bunch of first-round picks. So, you know, we're getting 50 sacks a and this is on a team that's never got a lead. And so like, it's not just the losing of football games. Like, you're affecting our legacies as players. Like, you're, you're taking money off, off the table for us. Like, you know, I watched some of these teams, you know, late in my career I got into some of these good teams.

I'm like, man, if I could still run, how fun this would be to play, to rush the passer. Prime 25-year-old me rushing the passer for the Eagles. We, we haven't been down all season. Or the Patriots Patriots. And so yeah, it sucks when you, you spend a contract window or the prime of your career as a defensive player watching that. But you know, I don't think it ever got to the point where we were like, hey, fuck you guys. Like, you know, it's— you can, you can, you can razz the guys, you can, you can put pressure on them, but bad football teams can't will themselves to get better. And, and so you kind of look at it and you, you don't throw your hands up, but you say, this just, this is football. We're in a cycle of a, of a team that's not great, and, um, you try to keep things into perspective and control what you can control.

Did you ever have a teammate— like, I'm thinking about the, the Max Crosby situation, how, how weird that must be for him, and probably other people in the locker room too. Have you ever had a teammate like that that has, uh, like effectively been traded or thought he was going to be traded, and then they kind of like walk it back after the reports are already out there?

I can't say that I ever had that happen. In fact, like, I went back to look. It's only happened a couple, couple of times. I think, you know, Washington had that happen, you know, 5, 6 years ago with a player. And if I remember correctly, you know, because there's a lot of people are saying, hey, the knee, the knee, the knee, that there are situations that you can point to in the past where teams have balked at physicals like this and took shit for it, and then the player's out of league 2 years later. So So, you know, I think what Baltimore did is they just got cold feet straight up and they used the physical to get out of the thing. You know, and the Trey Hendrickson, he didn't cost you anything. So it was a weird situation. And I, you know, like I think Max is the thing that upset me about it is that Max is like such a consummate Raider. And I mean that in the old Raiders, not the new Raiders. He's like an old school guy. I put him up there with, you know, those greats, including my dad and that sort of thing.

So, um, culturally, he's just such a centerpiece. I'd love to see him stay there, uh, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get shipped this year, man. Like, you know, it's like that story is probably not over. As soon as I saw him head back to Vegas, I was like, what do you do? Because you're in the building and you're like, man, I'm the best player on the defense, you want me gone, right? Like, you got to be fucking pissed. And, and, and on top of it, now you, you look at like your Jerry Jones of the world who are like, maybe I could get him for half of but now that he's like a distressed asset, maybe I could just ship a one over and get Max Crosby. I don't think that story's over.

Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.

All right, uh, in looking at this upcoming season, do you have a couple teams maybe you're very high on? Because yeah, I've got a couple teams I'm pretty high on, but I want to hear yours.

Dude, I'm addicted to the Bills. I'm always high on the Bills. Okay, it's like a, it's like a problem. I, I, you know, and I just start there because I think you guys have have a lot of fun with the Bills mafia and that sort of thing. I think that— I think there's a reason to be excited about the defense. Like, I thought what happened was a straight-up coup with Sean McDermott and, and, uh, and, and the GM getting promoted to, you know, president of football operations, that sort of thing. And, you know, because honestly, um, it's— I look at some of these young players that they have coming in, and I think they could be a lot better defensively. A lot of it comes down to Jim, and you say, hey, well, he's got gotta— he's got to create pressure because they don't have a great pass rush. I like the TJ Parker kid out of Clemson. Um, I think Bradley Chubb's got some juice left. There's even guys like Michael Hoyt who, um, you know, he, he played really well for them and then popped his Achilles like immediately. He's kind of a guy that you, you can move around.

I'm a big fan of Ed Oliver. I'd go up and down the roster. The linebacker, that was going to be an issue for them. They, they've got this kid Alarms Orr who, who's pushing for that linebacker 2 spot. There's a young corner that played really good football for them. It's a name that I still haven't downloaded. It starts with an I— Igbano— Igbano or something like that. That kid can really play. So there— it's a fun time if you're a fan because you're looking at some of these young players and you're saying, okay, this is how they flip this thing in one year. And all they have to do is be— and they have been at times league average or better— they have to play well in the playoffs. So I think the Bills could be there again, um, with a chance to, to go to the big game. Um, you know, obviously it was the turnovers last year. I think the Houston Texans are—

that's one of my teams.

They're a machine, dude. I, you know, they just need to be league average offensively.

Just be honest, they got a running, running game. If they have a running game that, that can help CJ Stroud, like, CJ doesn't have to be what he was. He just has to be not— he just can't be as bad as he was last year at the end of the year.

And I think he'll— I think he'll be better, dude. He cut his hair. Like, when you cut your hair, cut your beard, I have this theory that, like, you know, some major growth or change is happening. I also think it's year 2 in the damn— in the damn system, so that helps a lot. And the fact you get Tank Dell back— David Montgomery is a big deal. They revamped the offensive line. But I'm telling you, I went to the joint practice with the Raiders recently, and, like, when you walk through a building, you can kind of get the personality of the team and the vibe. And I'll tell you, I felt like I walked into the big bad wolf's house, dude. Watching these guys walk around, they are all fucking business. And that defense is so fun to watch. And they had Reed Blankenship. They really don't have weaknesses defensively. I can't say that about another team in the NFL. And so that's a major strength. Um, you know, obviously the Rams, you know, people are already fitting them for their rings and they look, they look, I mean, tremendous. You add a Trent McDuffie, he's not just a great corner, he's a Swiss Army knife.

Your front four is going to be awesome. You had Watson, Um, you know, they're going to get big, they're going to be in 13 personnel, that whole thing. So they challenge people from personnel standpoint. Seattle's going to be good again, man. Like, I think a lot of people are, are kind of discounting them. I think the Cowboys are going to be pretty good.

That was my other team. I'm, I'm, I hate that I'm doing that. I hate that I am buying into the Cowboys hype, but I think their offense is going to be, you know, top 3 if everyone stays healthy. And their defense is going to get a lot better than it was. Uh, Caleb Downs, I hate that. I'm, I hate that I'm believing in that. Like, it sucks. I don't want the Cowboys to be good, but I'm sitting here looking at all these teams. I'm like, what's the team that's gonna, you know, every year there's a couple teams that go non-playoffs to playoffs. It's like, why, why are the Cowboys not that team?

Well, they had a historically bad defense, right? Um, you know, and, and, and so I Actually, I went back and looked at this. It's not, it's not as far-fetched. I don't have the numbers at hand, but like there have been a number of defenses that went from like worst to top half. Like that's not a far-fetched thing. And when you add, you know, the, the Barhams of the world, the Caleb Downs of the world— I think the kid from, um, um, from, uh, UCF that they did, Malachi Lawrence, I was all over him. You know, some people thought that was a reach. I think he's a stud. I think they're going to get better. Christian Parker, he's running that in vogue Fangio tree thing, um, you know. So I don't want to leave out— I don't want to leave out the, you know, the freaking, um, the Chargers or the, the Ravens are for sure— I mean, like, the Ravens defense has a chance to be elite, um, and, and I think the Bengals are going to be tough to deal with. Al Golden's unit, from the first half of the season to the second half of the season, they totally flip the script.

And I think it's easy in the NFL to look at a defense and say that's just who they are, but they got a lot of young players and they tinker with some things schematically. In the second half of the season, they were at least, you know, competent. The other team I'll say is I think the NFC North is tough to figure out. I think the Vikings have a chance to be very good. Every team, very good.

Every team in the NFC North, like every team in the NFC North, everyone keeps that like, what do you think I'm like, I, I think the Bears are going to be a playoff team, but I also think the Lions are going to be way better. They were a very unlucky team last year.

Good schedule for the Lions.

Good schedule. Like, they just— they, they had a bunch of games that they should— their offense is gonna be elite still.

I don't think they play in the cold outdoors until maybe late December.

Yeah, it's like Week 17 or something. And then the pack— once Michael Parsons comes back for the Packers, and then if Kyler Murray can be good, like, the NFC North, every team is going to be good.

It's, it's up for grabs. And then, and then the other thing is I haven't mentioned the Eagles yet just because everybody knows I'm a homer and everything, but like, I think the Eagles defense, it's, it's a known commodity. You know, I think the Grenard thing, uh, with the injury, we'll see what you get out of him, but he's a really good player. I think Jaylen Hunt is a name to watch. I think Jaylen Hunt is going to go off this year. And you know, like, they have the bodies up front to stop the run with the light box. We talked about the challenges the offense has to meet, but I think they're going to be very good again. So, uh, I think this year is, um, I kind of, I liken this year in the AFC especially to like if you, the Red Wedding, if you remember the Red Wedding. I think it's just gonna be, I think it's just, I, it's gonna be there. The teams in the AFC are very good this year. Yeah, there's not a ton of complete teams in the NFL, period, but I think some of the blue bloods kind of get back on the horse a little We didn't talk about Kansas City or the Broncos or the Patriots, or—

yeah, I mean, there's so many— there's a lot of really good teams. I actually think the Steelers— I, I weirdly think the Steelers are gonna like—

they're talking yourself into this Steelers.

I'm not talking myself.

I think it might be the year where they win a playoff game.

No, I'm not going that far. I do think their defense is going to be good, and I think— ah, no, you know what, the Steelers are gonna look exactly the same. Fuck that. It's all gonna be different.

Here's the thing nobody says with They, they— it looks like they're going for it. Like, they really do have some, some— I like a lot of the additions they made, but the, the thing for me is they won so many close games. The thing that people hated about Mike Tomlin is the reason they never, they never hit the floor. Yeah, you know, like, um, and, and so are you gonna win these, these close ball games? I do agree that the roster looks, looks very good. Um, but is it a better situation than— remember when like Brady one in Tampa, or Peyton Manning, one in Denver, would you say the rosters are better, or this roster is better than those rosters? I don't think so.

No, those, those teams had like, like, they have to be a top 3 defense for that to be the case.

No question. I don't think they— I, you know, like, certainly the way that the, you know, that the payroll on the defense is out of control, and, and I think, I think the Patrick Graham thing is, uh, it's a step in the right direction for sure, but Uh, but yeah, they're gonna have to rely on a lot of quick game offensively. They really are. A lot of run after catch, a lot of quick game. Got to run the ball. They did that last year pretty efficiently. We'll see, man. Like, Rodgers, he's still got a freaking cannon. I mean, you know, it doesn't really bear out in some of the, the stats or the metrics, and, you know, the stats will tell you he wasn't a great quarterback last year or the year before or whatever, but, um, he's still got a, an arm on him. Can they protect him.

Yeah. What do you think about the, uh, about the, the travel situation to Australia to start the year? We, we've talked about it a little bit. It's one of the crazier things that, that I can remember the NFL trying to force down our throats in a long time. The fact that it's Australia and how long that flight's going to be with two different teams taking like the most, um, the most different approaches to how to handle a clock. It's going to be interesting. I don't know what to make of it. Basically, basically San Francisco is like, we're going to live and become Australian.

And then they're gonna have accents. Brock Purdy's gonna—

yeah, yeah, Brock Purdy saw a dead body earlier today in the sand. Um, I guess it was Mac Jones. Or, um, yeah, then you got the Rams and they're saying like, we're not even gonna be in Australia. We're gonna pretend like we're not there, like this is basically LA, dude.

There's like two schools of thought with this. And you know, like, we used to do the international thing And, you know, I used to wish we'd go over earlier because I kind of liked London. I actually enjoyed it. Like, we'd go look at castles and shit, like, you know, just kind of bop around. And, um, you know, it's fun to— it's fun to take these road trips as a team. You can get closer as a team. But the Australia thing, I mean, that's like a 16-hour flight, 12-hour flight. I don't know what that is, but it's ridiculous. And, you know, time zones are just totally out of control. Um, the sports science people say— and this is what— and shout out to the Ram's training, uh, staff and the whole thing, Reggie Scott and those guys, like, they are very progressive in the way that they treat injuries, the way that they, they structure their program. They want to get in and get out, you know. The, the sleep specialist and those guys will tell you there's no way you— there's no way to acclimate to a new time zone, right, uh, in, in, in 3 days, you know.

So like, why do it? Just get in and get out, like, kind of tactical strike that thing, um, you know. And, and I think, uh, I think it's probably the right thing to do, but, but it's exhausting. And then you look at like what the Rams are going to play the, the Finns, the Cardinals. So the, the, you know, or the Niners are gonna play the Finns and the Cardinals when they get back. So the league kind of did them a schedule favor there. But, um, you know, I— not to talk gambling here, but I would just put those plays in now. Yeah, I'd put— I, you know, whatever, whatever the Dolphins are against the spread, whatever the Cardinals are, It's just, I can't imagine— I'd have to be proved wrong here— that a team that's limping into the NFL season in the car— in the, in the Niners, they got coaches in car accidents, the owners at a mobile home with a hooker.

He's doing shit.

Yeah, careful.

He's doing shit. We don't know. Allegedly, allegedly, he might have been the love of his life.

If this happened, allegedly, if it's proven to be true, I guarantee you the NFL they have zero tolerance for that out of nowhere.

Yep.

He's—

see you, buddy. See you.

You're out of here.

Yeah, I gave you this take earlier.

Jerry Jones and Bob Kraft say not here, dude.

Not on my watch.

Yeah, yeah, right, exactly. There's no precedent for anything like this. But, but I do think he has to marry this woman because then it becomes a Pretty Woman thing and it becomes a feel-good story.

I think he honestly needs to get the sign— like, this is finally the, the moment where he can be like, you know what, we got to get rid of this substance substation because goddamn it's making me horny. It's the substation. I just blame it all on the substation, dude.

It's making everybody horny. Yeah, and hurt.

Yeah, hurt and horny.

Too bad, the two H's, dude.

We don't do that. You can do one, you can do one. I can't be both.

I, I just—

if I'm ever a coach, I might use that two H's.

I just tweeted this out, but it— I, I genuinely believe it. I was talking to Zach about it, how horny he had to have been because there's so many chances to turn around. Mm-hmm.

He's on the road, bro.

If you're going into a trailer park, you, you have to make the drive there. I can't imagine that it's too close to where he's staying as a billionaire.

Yes.

He has to drive on a highway, maybe pay a toll, go through a toll booth.

Yeah.

Um, he's gotta exit the highway. He's probably gotta drive for like 15 minutes on a back road. He's gotta pass some weird shady gas stations where you're looking at him. You're like, like I shouldn't be in this neighborhood.

Like, I don't know, like Cradum and shit.

Yeah, yeah. The real— the sketchiest places. Then you have to turn into the trailer park and then endure the looks. Yes, the looks of the—

why is there a guy in a Mercedes here, dude?

He might have had to like rent a car to drive there because he didn't want to take the Mercedes. Like, maybe I'll like rent a Nissan so that I don't raise any eyebrows. You pass a couple of people on their porches. They're looking at you like, oh, who's that coming And you pull up. I can't imagine that the front porch light was, was too bright. So you're not sure if that's the right address of the crazy looking guy or whatever. There's so many chances where he could have just, just turned around and jacked off.

But it had to be— it had to have been one of those like, just like brutal hangover horny, like wake up.

Internet wasn't fast enough at the Marriott. I don't know, like what, like what's going on here. But, you know, like maybe It's one of those states where like Pornhub's banned. I, I don't know.

Yeah, what happens?

You should look at that.

What, what do you think the locker room— like, does that even matter? The owner, does it matter for anyone in the locker room? Like, no one?

No, dude.

Yeah, no one gives a fuck.

The Patriots don't care about what happened this offseason, right? The players— it's about football now, right? You know, I'm not saying— I'm not saying right, wrong, indifferent. I'm just telling you, like, The players are here to play football. There has been much crazier shit that's happened than a guy going— and it sounds crazy— a billionaire going to a trailer park to solicit sex. But that's— those guys will be talking about it. A guy's going to be at practice with his arms crossed watching the, you know, watching the next practice, and the players are going to be like, hey, there he is, like, there's our horny owner. But like, other than that, it's not really going to factor in.

It is a crazy offseason. I mean, between this and the Kyle Shanahan like, you know, and on a serious note, like, I don't know how the Niners—

the Niners, I respect them so much. I think Kyle Shanahan should get like a lifetime contract because I can't imagine a better coach that— I can't imagine ever saying like, hey, let's take a chance on a new guy. He's such a stable commodity. Yeah, the way they played last year with what they had to deal with was nothing short of amazing. Losing, you know. But you lose Saleh, you're kind of— you're changing the defense up a little bit with Raheem coming into town. And, you know, you've got injuries up front. Kittle's coming off an Achilles, you know, the whole thing. Like, the Iyuk situation was bizarre. I, I don't know how they don't take a little step back.

Yeah.

And I say that respectfully because I really respect the program, but, um, and it's also enough is enough.

The Niners are— the Niners still have great top-end talent, but when we—

it's older, but yeah.

And when we always, like, whenever a big trade happens and a team trades a couple first-round picks and everyone freaks out, the Niners are kind of an example of that, where the Trey Lance trade— they don't have, like, they don't have guys that are, like, coming into their prime, you know what I mean? They have young guys and they have old guys.

Yes.

And they don't have that, like, middle. They should have a couple studs that are in, like, they're 25 25, 26 years old, 24 years old. They just— those are the Trey Lance picks, you know?

Yeah, yeah. And, and the Piersall thing kills you.

Yep.

You know, like, he just— he's a good— he obviously would have been a hit, but physically it just— he hasn't been able to. But if you look back at a couple of their, their drafts, like, this is a big year for like the Mykel Williams of the world, Alfred Collins, you know, the guys up front that they just— CJ West. I do think I liked Upton Stout last year. So, you know, John Lynch is taking a lot of shit for drafting and your point's taken. But, but yeah, I mean, a lot of it is, is missing out on the, you know, if you miss, if you take a big swing and a miss on a Trey Lance, that definitely, you don't even get like a solid starter out of the guy.

Yeah. What about the, what about the Patriots and the way their offseason's gone? What do you expect from them this season? Because they lost, obviously Diggs not going to be there anymore. And then Booty just got traded to the Texans.

So is that how we're saying his name? Because I can never— is it Boutte or Booty?

I would say Booty because it's fun.

Good.

Yeah, it's fun.

We can just agree to say Booty. Yeah.

Yeah, that's cool.

I—

and you're probably right. I think they're going to be better this year, but I think their schedule is going to totally throw that.

I mean, they have a bad schedule last year.

Yeah, you've heard about this. Was it with week? It was— evidently it was week.

Oh, the Patriots.

Okay, you know about this?

No, this first time hearing of it.

Breaking news.

I can call him and ask him. He said no, he's, uh, spent time with his kids today.

I think they're going to be better, and this is not— I'm not trying to be lazy with my analysis, but I just think the schedule gets harder. There's bound to be a little bit of a regression because they were so I mean, they were so good last year. I mean, defense— you also think about a defensive coordinator taking over for DC on the fly. He's not a known commodity. He brings a lot of heat. Um, you know, I thought his pressure packages were incredible. Um, you know, year 2 in that kind of system. Yeah, Dobbs outside. You had AJ Brown. I think AJ Brown's got another 1,000-yard season in him for sure. Like, and you saw that in the Patriots-Eagles joint practice he's still got it. So, and I'm a big Dobbs fan for sure. I, I think they're gonna be, I think they're gonna be better, but I think, like I said, the AFC is going to take a, a step forward. I don't know if I mentioned the Chargers earlier, the team they beat in the playoffs. Like, I'm, you know, I finished the season last year saying I will never fall for that football team again.

Like, I don't care how good I think Justin Herbert could be, I don't care how much I like Harbaugh, But I'm never falling for that team again. And now months later, I'm like, hey, they could win the division. The thing with the Chargers is I didn't want to leave them out of this discussion. You got to win in the playoffs. It sounds so obvious, but it's approaching mental at this point. It's, it's approaching like you can say it doesn't factor in, but it absolutely factors in. And I'm a big McDaniel fan. Um, I think this offense is gonna, is gonna look much different. I mean, the Greg Roman stuff got stale. Um, you talk about two, having two all-world tackles who weren't out there last year. Now you can get on the edge, you run outside zone and everything comes with it. Get the ball out of Herbert's hands a little faster. I think they've got a chance to be very good. So I didn't want to leave the Chargers out either in the AFC.

It's, it's, it's the Chargers are just that team that I find myself, I will just keep falling in love with the idea of them. And then every year I should be like, well, what did I expect?

The Chargers have a toxic past.

They do.

They're a beautiful woman with a toxic past.

But sometimes we love that messy shit. Yeah.

Like, so we're Jed York driving into the mobile home.

Something hot about it.

Exactly.

Yeah, man, I shouldn't be doing this. I shouldn't be here.

I'll just slum it with Justin Herbert again. Like, that's—

you remember when Harbaugh was living in an RV last year?

Yeah, a couple years ago. Yeah, when he first took the job.

Yeah, yeah, that's a mobile home.

Yeah, yeah, probably a different kind of mobile home.

Yeah, knocked on his door. Yeah, yeah, that's football. So can, can I ask you about the Commanders and can you promise to answer me in a way where you won't completely break my heart?

Yes.

Okay.

My expectation for the Commanders is they're going to make the playoffs. I think the defense is going to be much better than last year. And all this is with a giant caveat of Jayden Daniels staying healthy. The defense, can I be I mean, do I have the right to be a little bit excited about the defense given that they've gotten so much younger and they have maybe a new Dr. Heat or like, yeah, the new Exotica guy?

I almost bet their over win total and I'm glad I didn't because the next day Tunsil got hurt. I think that's a big one. Yeah, it's a big one. Now they have some solid depth there, but that's a big one. I think the Diggs really— the Diggs thing really helped. Helps, you know, it helps in the middle of the field, um, it helps in the money downs. Like, he's the guy that's going to get open, and, you know, you can— McLaurin's going to stretch the field and that sort of thing. Chigui Okonkwo, um, really athletic guy, got to catch the football. He's had the drops a little bit, but I like, I like the player. Um, I, I actually like— I think the offense, I, I— anything Ben Johnson right now, that's the Blough thing. Like, although he's really young I mean, it's crazy, these coordinators now are like, you know, little babies, man. But, um, I think the offense is going to be fine. The defense, for me, there were some additions that excited me. We'll see about the Sonny Stiles thing. I, I think the Amik Robertson thing is a low-key big signing.

He was such a tough player for them in the slot in Detroit. And you talk about, like, you talk about playing physical and not getting flagged, that, that, and being a little guy, like, he's a very unique talent. I think the cross guy guy that you got from India is a tremendous player. So I like the way they shored up their secondary a little bit. The kid from Ole Miss last year, the corner, he's going to take a step. Amos, big strong long guy.

Yeah.

Um, so there's a lot to be excited about. I, I do think up front, like, Oweh's got a lot to live up to with that contract. I think you'll probably get a player that you're like, hey man, he's a good football player, he's a good rusher, but like, we probably overpaid a little bit. And then you had Chazahn and free agency and that sort of thing. Like, it's kind of going to be a sum-of-the-parts type front 7, and you've got to bring pressure, and you just alluded to that. So I'm excited to see them play. I mean, I'm not crazy excited. I was a lot more excited before Tunsil got hurt.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. But Brandon Coleman, he was the left tackle when the Raiders got to the NFC Championship Game.

So no question.

He's not bad.

But yeah, you're right. Laremy Tunsil, he's one of the guys one of the, I'd say like 4 or 5 really like game-changing left tackles that you have.

You can leave him alone. You can say, hey, Laramie, you're on an island, or Laramie, we're going to run, we're going to run off tackle. And like, you know, while he's not Penae Sewell in the run game, like he definitely helps get the ball on the edge. So there's some concepts, maybe some pinpoles that you're not as excited about, or, you know, some stretch action type things that you're not excited about. I just think it has a trickle-down effect. Fact.

Yep.

Yeah. All right, uh, last question, Rowback question. rhoback.com, promo code TAKE, 20% off your first purchase. Q-zips, polos, hoodies, joggers, shorts. Rowback.com, promo code TAKE. Everyone do listen to the Green Light Pod. Uh, Chris is the best with the boys. Uh, we gotta do this again, man.

It—

once—

how's that book, by the way? Look at that. Look at all those books.

Part of it.

Yeah, I know. I talked to the guy and he was like, I'll send you a copy before it comes out. I I never saw it.

Listen, we— dude, yeah, we— this book, uh, there's— there was some, some errors in this book that we made that, that, that, uh, I think— give it character. Give it, give it like—

you're looking for something.

Well, no, I mean, I, I— we've joked about it, but I did— I opened the parentheses on, on page 9 and never closed it. So yeah, yeah, yeah. So like that kind of shit.

It's the first book, man. It's the first book.

Yeah, yeah.

Our second book, we'll start with a close parentheses.

I've been manually adding a couple parentheses to a few books that I see in stores.

Yeah.

So that's like, you know, some very limited edition copies.

We got it. Yeah.

Get closed out. If you like— if you have OCD, this is approved for you.

Yeah. But thank you for, for taking the time, because you can't tell the history of Pardon My Take without, without Chris. Uh, Zach, go on, take it away.

How are we doing today? Uh, Chris, I did have a quick question. Brother, what's going on, my man?

Have you ever met Zach in person? I don't think we gotta get that, we gotta get that together.

I don't believe so. I think he's virtually here, but it's great to meet you for the first time, man.

Yo, nice to meet you. All y'all's dudes in the back are awesome there, so yeah, I know Zach's awesome.

Uh, I was wondering, uh, would you consider yourself a better football player or outdoorsman? Because what you can do on a kayak and kind of the side of a mountain is incredibly impressive.

I honestly, that's a damn good question because I was pretty good football player, but I wasn't Like, you know, I'm pretty good, dude. I like— listen, I can paddle on an eighth of mushrooms with the best of them, dude. So if that were a sport, I think I'm pretty good at that. I mean, I did 9 miles yesterday, and, uh, you know, it's just I love being outside, man, you know. And I— yeah, I wouldn't say I'm like a real mountaineer or anything like that, but I have I have somebody kill you a few times, and, and I like to be outside.

Is there a future? Like, is there a future in the Olympics? I know they have like kayaking. You should try.

No, dude, no, I can't. I, I don't know how to flip yet.

If you guys—

you guys know whitewater kayaking? Yeah, yeah, you know how guys can, can roll and flip? Like, you know, if you get dumped, then I, I can't yet. I'm, I'm too big. Like, it just doesn't— I mean, I barely fit in my boat, so So I think there are some factors that are going to keep me out of the Olympics, but, um, if you guys come down to the James River one day, guys, we, we— I mean, it's not far.

Like, we, we were talking, we— Chris and I were talking, maybe, maybe Grit Week, we, we float a river. It would be fun.

Oh yeah, it would be so great, man. But, but yeah, no, I, I, I don't know, man. Uh, whether it's football or the outdoors, I'm just trying to have a good time, guys.

Love it.

I love it.

You're the best, Chris. Uh, thank you as always, and, uh, can't wait for football. You can finally— maybe show— maybe when we run this on Wednesday, throw out that tweet, be like, only 14 days till football. Yeah, I can finally— I can finally say goodbye to my family.

Well, no, that's the whole point. Like, first the kids go to school, you don't see them, and then second you're like, hey, Sunday mornings, I'll see you Monday night. Yeah, like, that's— it's hard. It's, it's, it's a tough life being a podcaster.

You know what you could do? You could say like, only 14 days but for 14, have like a player whose jersey number is 14.

Oh, that's good.

That would be a fun way to do it.

I've never seen that before.

Amon-Ra St. Brown. People are like, what do you mean? It's only Amon-Ra St. Brown days until football.

I've never seen that before, dude.

Yeah, that'd be fucking crazy.

You should try that.

All right, thank you, Chris. You're the man.

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We're about to get into Seth Wickersham. He's brought to you by Twisted Tea. It's officially the dog days of summer, and Twisted Tea is our go-to for cooling down when it's heating up. When it's hot, you know I'm reaching for something ice cold. Twisted Tea is the perfect drink for lake days, beach days, backyard grilling, and all the good stuff that summer has to offer. Twisted Tea is a refreshing hard iced tea. It's made with real brewed tea and 5% alcohol, full of flavor, very refreshing, goes down smooth. There's no carbonation, which makes it easy to drink all day long. Whether it's hitting the courts for a round, pre-gaming a ball game, or inviting the guys over for some backyard grilling, Twisted Tea is always there to keep the good times rolling. Grab a refreshing Twisted Tea today. And now here is Seth Wickersham.

Okay, we now welcome on a very, very special guest. It is Seth Wickersham, who is a New York Times bestselling author, which I think we're going to run this next week. So maybe we are as well at that time. But you have a new book coming out on September 15th called Beyond That Hill. And Seth, it's the stories from the summits of sport. Seth, you wrote a book about sports and used a Bruce Springsteen lyric. Yeah, this is like Nirvana for, for all all like, you know, older dudes, older than 50 years old. Like, why didn't we release this right on Father's Day? Because this is incredible.

It was, it was a big marketing miss right there. But thanks, guys.

Good to be here, man. Yeah, so, so you're here. So, all right, so let's talk about the book first, then we have a bunch of questions because you are a fascinating figure. A— we always joke when a Seth Wickersham like byline drops, it's like, uh-oh, so we're about to learn some things that no one wanted to see in the light of day.

I think the last 10 years you might be number 1, if not you're definitely top 3 don't pick up the phone guy. Yeah, like you get a call from Seth Wickersham, don't pick— don't answer that call. It's not good for you. And I mean, that's a true compliment.

Yeah, no, I mean, you got my phone number. I don't know how.

You just text me out of nowhere, like, hey, it's not that hard.

Okay, yeah, all right, I realize that. And maybe it might have been the person who wrote the foreword for your book. I realized that afterwards. Um, all right, so, so this book though, uh, what, what exactly are you like writing about? And, and what's, what's going into it with the stories, people you talk to?

Yeah, I mean, it's a collection, so it's kind of like a greatest hits, which is a weird thing to do because first of ball, you're like, do I have any hits? And then you're like, you have hits. And then you're like, okay. You know, then you realize you have, you pull way too many of 'em and you're like, I know I don't have that many fricking hits. Mm-hmm. So you have to cull it down. But you know, a collection's a special thing and you know, it's, they're rare and it's kind of funny. It's, um, it's a huge ego trip and also kind of absurd because you can Google any of those stories basically. Yeah. Find them for free. Yeah. But, um, I realize that might not be the best selling point, but it's true. Yeah. And, um, but it was cool to do. And it was, you know, I don't know about you guys, but like, I'm not wired to reflect. Like, yeah, by the time, you know, I've spent so much time on these stories that when they're out in the world, I don't ever look back at them. And it was cool to to look back at your career a little bit.

I mean, you guys experienced it yourself with yours and see who you were at certain moments, where you were, and the memories that some of those stories brought up was pretty cool.

Yeah, it is true. Like, if you're not wired that way, when you do put them all together, it does, it does hit you a little bit harder since you haven't taken that time to look back. And yeah, you've got bangers, you've got some hits. You are, uh, you're one of my favorite journalists in the entire world. It might be from a very personal place. I, I credit you, Dan Van Natta— Natta, how do you pronounce his last name?

Don Van Natta.

Don Van Natta and, uh, and Jim Irsay as the big three that took down Dan Snyder. And I will forever be grateful to you for that. Growing up a Redskins fan in Northern Virginia and seeing what he did to that, really, that city. Yeah, um, it was awful. But you were like, you're like a dog, you know, just chasing after that car. You were, you were right on his bumper the entire —was that hard for you? Because I know that he has, you know, he's threatened people. He's said that he had blackmail on Roger Goodell. Like, did you ever fear that he was going after you as well?

No. And maybe that's naive, but we never did. We did that story. So that was fall, I think, of '21 when we did that story. And, you know, I was poking around on the Dan Snyder story for a while and I was struggling to get what I thought. I had pieces of reporting, but I didn't have a story. And, you know, we knew that he was putting private eyes on people, or at least talking about putting private eyes on people. But I think Bruce Allen came out at Congress and confirmed everything. Yeah. Um, but, uh, I, I know I was talking to Don. He had just finished a story on Rob Manfred, I think. And I was talking to him and I said, you know, do you want to work together on this thing? Because I'm— I have pieces of reporting, but I don't have a And he was like, yeah. And he had it immediately. He said, you know, how has he survived? Like, that's— we should write about how he survived because The Washington Post had done all those stories. And so that was the question. And so once we had that framing, Tisha Thompson came in and helped too.

But we just like attacked that. That was fun. And it came out. And, you know, obviously there's a lot of stuff in that story about about the things that he had done. Um, you know, he had had an entire PowerPoint presentation at the league office that the league office called the blackmail PowerPoint. Yeah. Where he was basically saying like, if you guys— and, and, um, you know, his lawyers presented it and, and, you know, if you, if you try to touch me, this is what's coming. Yeah. Um, so flagrant. Um, but anyway, the story came out and I remember I drove down to the league meeting meetings, and it was in New York, downtown New York. And they had started— I don't think you guys have really been to those meetings, but you know, it's basically a bunch of like reporters sitting around in a lobby. There's really not a lot going on. And Ursae kind of came in late, and he moved slow, and he stopped at the— the meetings were going on upstairs, and he stopped at the base of the stairs. And I think all the press were kind of like, is he just waiting for us to come talk to him?

And so everyone kind of slowly came over to him. And I'm not covering the news off the meeting, so I'm not like the first one in there. And he was talking low and I was like, wait a second, I think he's talking about Snyder. And he obviously had read the story and was making a very calculated stand right there. And I thought that that was, again, those things things I think all kind of help trigger the league to force him to sell. Yeah, the, uh, the blackmail PowerPoint.

When you get to a point where you're openly— you're threatening Roger Goodell, that's, that's the one thing. Because I feel like owners— and maybe you can tell me if this isn't true— but I feel like NFL owner is a very, very hard job to get— I guess you could call it fired from— but to lose. It's a tough job to lose, and you have to do something extraordinarily stupid, uh, to get kicked out of that club. Is that a fair harassment?

I mean, I think you have to do a series of extraordinarily stupid things that your own owners find distasteful. And there's a disconnect between what the public finds distasteful and what the owners do. And I think that Snyder was a great example of that because the Washington Post did all their stories about the workplace atmosphere, the harassment, how toxic that was. I mean, mildly. And he survived it. It had gone away. Everyone knew that. And he was kind of laying low, hoping that everything would pass. And then it was our story where it came out that he really was going after his colleagues. Yeah. And Roger, that I think, you know, was like, we're done with this guy.

Yeah. The second you start withholding money, or there's that too, there's the appearance of withholding money. It's like, yeah, we, we overlooked the, the 20 allegations of sexual harassment assassination. Yeah, but the second the owners think that you might be shortchanging them, it all kind of flips on a little bit.

I still think if he had gotten a stadium done, he probably would have survived, which is crazy.

Yeah, it speaks to the NFL.

Yeah, that's the language they speak.

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's a good segue to what's going on right now with the Bears. Yeah, um, that whole thing— me and Big Cat kind of have the same mentality, which is it's not over till it's over, and everything could be a negotiating point. We've seen in sports before that deals are done and then they're done all of a sudden. So, um, do you know, do you have any— are you plugged in at all to the, uh, the back and forth? Like, what do you see from the Bears ownership group? I mean, the only thing I—

and, and I've limited exposure to this, I haven't written anything about it, but like, I think that, um, I think the Bears felt frustrated that they couldn't seem to get the attention of the governor and they had to do something. And, you know, I think that there's a general frustration that some of these big markets are underachieving in the NFL, and that, you know, the Bears should have had a stadium by now, and the, you know, the NFL presence in the city of Chicago should be much more glitzy and modern than it is. I think that, like, with the Giants, that's another example of, like, um, huge market, and the Jets, huge market, can't quite get these teams relevant. And Um, so, you know, we've seen situations like this. The 49ers going to Santa Clara. Um, the Chiefs are obviously gonna, you know, move to Kansas. And I don't think the Bears were dying to go to Indiana, but they're definitely willing to do it.

It's also— I mean, knowing how this all has gone down too, like, the Bears are also— it's a mom-and-pop shop. And I say that like not in disrespectful way, but it's— there are certain owners, and you know this by talking to everyone, like there are certain owners, they— the McCaskies own this, the Bears, because their, their great-grandfather started football 100-plus years ago, and that's all the money they have is in this franchise. So they don't have the means to do some of the other things that some of these other franchises are able to do. And so they need the— they need the state of Illinois to give them a bunch of breaks and stuff, and they weren't doing that right away. So they, they're using leverage. I think Goodell is eventually going to come in and be like, you have to go to Arlington Knights. I think that's probably how it's going to all settle. But who knows? It's all a mess. It feels like we've been talking about it for far too long and they just need to get it done.

And, and these things, you know, there is some nuance to it. And these stadiums always end up being so much more expensive than people think. So like when you go back to 2016, we had the Derby for Los Angeles. And, um, Van Natta and I wrote about it and I put in the book. And, you know, it was this one of the worst falls, I think, to be an NFL owner because people were just out for each other. You had Jerry Richardson fighting against Jerry Jones. You had Cronky versus Spanos. You had Mark Davis floating around in there kind of threatening to go to LA. You had the league that didn't want the Raiders to go to LA, but they really didn't know what to do to try to solve this, this problem. Kroenke buys this land and he presents the owners a $2.7 billion stadium. You know, we all see, and it's a, it's a beautiful facility. I mean, that stadium ended up costing close to $6 billion, right, before it was done. That's crazy. And like, not many people can write a check like that. And, um, you know, so I think that's why you have these situations The Chargers were like that where they kind of defaulted to LA.

You know, now they're in LA.

It's hard to tell like what fans they have, right? But, you know, they felt like they had to do it. And, you know, it's like, how do the Bears navigate this better and smarter? And I don't know really if there's a way because, you know, again, their ownership can't just write a check for $5 billion, right?

They don't have the means to do that.

For the longest time, the NFL owners had— they had the boogeyman of Las Vegas. Yeah, it was like, hey, if you don't pony up, if we don't get the tax money— and LA. And LA. Yeah, those are the two. It's like, we can go to Vegas and we can go to LA. Now they're 0 for 2. What is the next boogeyman that they can— they can— is it just Indiana? It's London. Indiana is going to take every team.

Yeah, it might be London. Yeah. Um, that's a great question. I mean, I don't see a lot of them, you know. I think that, like, I think people would I don't see a lot of places left, you know? Maybe there's none left, and maybe that's something that— maybe that's why Roger comes out and says, you know, we'll see a team overseas at some point. I mean, the logistics of doing that is going to be incredibly difficult. It's going to suck.

Yeah, when he said that, it did feel like he's propping up London as the next spot. And then obviously everybody says, oh, the Jaguars, but I don't think Shahid Khan is going to do that. He just invested a lot of money into Jacksonville. Jacksonville. Yeah. So like, I mean, not to tie everything back, I, I am like, um, Charlie Day in Always Sunny. When I hear something like that, I'm like, Dan Snyder's gonna take the team, he's gonna do it. He's there, right? Yeah, an expansion team in London. But like, do you see it being an expansion?

I never thought of that.

That would be crazy if there was an NFL, like, an expansion draft. We haven't had one in a very long time. Um, but in today's day and age, seeing that happen again would be absolutely nuts, especially if the team— the players that get selected have to live— you're telling them you got to go live in London.

I think they have to pay taxes there.

Well, all athletes do. Oh yeah, it's true. It's true.

Yeah, I had talked to a—

you should do a report on that, that athletes pay taxes.

I talked to owners at some point about like how this would work, because again, when the Jaguars were kind of in their situation, there was some talk about would they spend half the year there. And I think they were talking about like, you know, would the London team be in the States straight consecutively for half the season? Would they work out of some facility like like in Austin or Atlanta or wherever it might be, um, that kind of helped make sense for them. You know, I think the logistics would be complicated, um, but I also don't think the league care if the opportunity is there. The league is funny because they are incredibly slow-moving and cautious on a lot of things unless there's a direct revenue pathway, right? And it's immediate, and they will move incredibly fast in that situation. And so, right, they'll, they'll definitely like figure out the logistics if they think that this is like worth doing and would benefit everybody.

Yeah, you've got a, you've got a very close relationship with people. I don't know if you have one with Tom Brady himself, but like people that are in Tom Brady's inner circle, it seems. And you've done a lot of reporting on some really good stuff. What do you think it is that makes Tom Brady go, like, man, because we saw him as like a uniquely competitive, driven person. And I think a lot of that was out of like, fuck you energy when he was, when he's on Patriots and still then on the, on the Bucs. And, but he still seems to have that, that edge to him now post-playing and as a part owner of the Raiders. Like, what do you think is at his core that drives the guy?

It becomes a curse, you know, without the game, without a place to deposit it. But I met Tom for the first time. We were— we both graduated from college the same year, and ESPN Magazine sent me to Foxborough in October of 20— of 2001 to write about the guy who was filling in for Drew Bledsoe. Well, and I had heard of Brady, obviously, but I didn't know a lot about him. We met at the old Foxborough Stadium, which, as you guys remember, was like a high school field. We walked through the team shop to some office. Nobody stopped him. He was wearing like a gray sweatsuit with a backpack. He looked like a college junior. And, you know, we sat down and we talked and we kind of felt like two— I don't want to say peers, but it was like we were both ambitious people getting our breaks at the exact same time. And there's a little bit of a kinship there. And I'll never forget, he's like, you know, football has always come really easy to me. And I wasn't— I didn't have the perspective at the time to appreciate what he was saying as a 24-year-old.

But, um, I, I think that, like, you know, at the time I was like, who's saying this stuff? You know what I mean? This guy, right? Whatever. Um, but I look back on stuff like that and I think that there's just an innate confidence. And if you look at his high school clips, you know, the guy could always throw. He's always had, like, an incredible arm. It was just in kind of a gangly body. And then you you know, that little worrying piece of insecurity that's always within you that gets you out of bed. And he's had it to the nth degree. And there was years later, I, I was writing a story about him and he said, come by my house. He was in Boston and it was— I'll never forget, it's a townhouse in the Back Bay and you— the elevator entered into his living room and I walked in and no one was there. And I'm going like, is those kids gonna come around, around the corner and wonder like, who the hell is this guy in our house? I'm standing in Tom Brady's living room wondering like what the hell to do.

Um, and he's like, hey, you know, I'll be right up, just make yourself comfortable. He was the only one home, but he was at a little bit of a crossroads in his career at that point where I think Bill was starting to think about post-Tom life. He had been— they hadn't won a Super Bowl in close to 10 years. He was developing a lot of the TB12 stuff that would become his kind of religion. And, you know, he, he was a young man, or he's, you know, I guess 35, but young but middle-aged. He was a young father, and I was kind of trying to talk to him about that. And I was knowing how competitive he is and how intense he is, I still underappreciated his drive. And he was like, there is absolutely no no off switch. Like, nothing changes. And the things that he did during that year, I think, set the stage for what he did during the last 10 years of his career. He said, like, very nonchalantly— and I think it was the first time— he said, you know, my, my first 10 years in the league prepared me for— have prepared me for my— what'll be my last 10.

And I was like, what? Yeah, again, it was like, football's always come really easy to me. I'm like, what are you saying? Right? You know, whatever, dude. But like, he meant it. Yeah. And I think that like, when he says something He means it to the bottom of his soul. So I think all of those things are the things that like kind of create this mosaic that's created, you know, the greatest football player ever.

Do you think that like Brady, looking at everything that happened with Brady and Belichick at the end, I mean, winning 6 Super Bowls, the dynasty, and then the end of it, Brady had more closure than Belichick? Because Belichick feels like he's never really had closure on it with how it all ended. Brady goes, wins a Super Bowl. He's a Super Bowl, he's now on, you know, doing the biggest game of the week on Fox and all these things. But Belichick, it feels like that's the greatest coach of all time. And it's kind of been a weird final chapter. Yeah.

You know, I mean, he opened the door for Brady. You know, look, the exit had been brewing for years. Yeah.

What year was it like? Did you, did you start reporting on it or seeing or hearing about it?

So it was after the Falcons Super Bowl, and I think that like they had gotten 5 together. Brady was coming out with this TB12 business and kind of doing a lot of promotion for it, which was very atypical for a Patriot. Right. And very atypical for Brady. And I think he wanted a contract that would like solidify his status there for a bit. Hey, let's fricking make another run. You know, let's do all this stuff. And Belichick, you know, wanted Brady as his quarterback to a point. And I think that he was just, he presented Kraft a study at one point at one point that showed how quarterbacks drop off after maybe age 35, 36. And of course Brady looks at something like that and it's like, fuck that, I'm gonna like take your study and, you know, and, but, you know, Bill planned for, he was invested in Garoppolo. And so you had all of these things going on at the same time. And, you know, then you had Alex Guerrero in the building and, you know, his presence was causing some problems. The receivers were like, to Guerrero rather than the Patriots doctors to get in with Tom?

Like, you know, what are we doing? And, um, you know, Belichick had to make some decisions. You know, he curtailed Guerrero's access, traded Jimmy, something he didn't really want to do. And, you know, it's like a lot of that turmoil, and some of it spilled out into public. You know, I wrote about it, others did too. But like, you know, you saw— remember Brady had that game against, um, Jacksonville in the championship where he had cut his hand. He'd split his hand open during the week. Miles Jack. Yes. And he, you know, rallies them, I think, from 10 down in the fourth quarter, you know, with a bandage on his throwing hand. Yeah. And, you know, they ask Bill after the game to say, you know, what about this performance? You know what I mean? And he's like, you know, it's not open heart surgery. And I probably could do a better impression. Yeah. And I think that It just got complicated and Brady knew that he was going to leave. And then of course he leaves, lands with Tampa. They look middling through most of the season and then they just catch fire. And you know, Brady cosmically won the narrative.

And you know, does that bother Bill? I don't think so. Cause I mean, I think Bill's pretty secure in his legacy. Although Don and I's story about him not getting in the Hall of Fame, You know, that was a shocker. Yeah. But like, I think that like, I think they're in a good place now. But, you know, how Bill's career has played out after he opened the door for Brady to leave, you know, it, it's, it's dinged it a little bit. And I don't think it takes away. I think that like when the one paragraph about Belichick in the Hall of Fame is written, it's not going to say, he let Tom Brady— he opened the door for Brady to walk out, and Brady did. It's going to talk about all of his accolades, but that's— it's part of his legacy. Yeah.

And, and do you put any stock in, uh, some of the rumors that were going around the Super Bowl of like, you know, Brady was acting weird, uh, saying he didn't have a dog in the fight with the, the Patriots in the Super Bowl? Like, do you think that there's any lingering animosity between Tom and the franchise?

I mean, I don't know, but it doesn't surprise me that he would say that because is, you know, Kraft backed Bill's decision to let him leave. So, you know, he did a lot for that team and that team did a lot for him. But like, it doesn't surprise me at all. I mean, you know, the, the word competitiveness is interesting because it gives some of these guys carte blanche to act in really kind of bizarre ways under the guise of competitiveness. And you've seen it, you know, with Jordan throughout the years, you know, all the— you've seen a lot of examples of it. Joe Montana, you know, kind of like nitpicking at Brady's career, even though it's Joe freaking Montana, right?

Um, wait, did you write that story about Joe?

Right, did, right? Yeah, that was a fascinating story. It was. Yeah. And, um, uh, but you know, it took years for Montana and a lot of work by Jed York to get Montana back back in the sort of 49ers family, right? He was like, look what I did for you guys and you wouldn't even give me a chance to win my job, right, to compete. And, you know, I think that like those scars are deep scars, and Brady had accomplished so much and then, you know, he ends up leaving. Um, so no, it didn't surprise me at all that he would say something like that.

Yeah. So, so where, where do you think— like, do you think Belichick has any chance of going back to the NFL? Is that—

no.

Yeah, I mean, no, it's kind of crazy when you think about it. Like, he— that he's not going to get the record. We all kind of had it as a foregone conclusion. Like, this guy is— he is the greatest coach, whether record or no record. But I think if you asked anyone in the world in 2019, 2020, even when Brady leaves, you're like, yeah, of course he's going to get the record. He's going to coach for a few more years, probably win 10, 11 games. And even if he gets 5 someone will hire him in a second. And none of that happened.

None of that happened. And Van Natta and I and Jeremy Fowler wrote about it. And, you know, the Falcons, he didn't finish in the top 3 of any, any of their decision makers, their circle of trust. They ranked their candidates and he didn't finish in anyone's top 3. I mean, that is a huge— and look, I like Raheem Morris and, you know, I think Raheem in a good situation would be a really good head coach. You know, they made their decision, but— Yeah, I mean, Raheem Morris, better person than football coach. It's just like, you know, I think— and I wrote this story on Sean Payton where I spent the playoffs with him, and, you know, he was so offended that he always says our league had no place for Belichick. And he actually thought of an idea where he would like hire Belichick Bill is the head coach, step aside, run the offense until Bill got the record because he just thought it was so embarrassing and a bad reflection of the league that someone with that credential is not getting a job. And yeah, it's still, it still is one of those sentences that should, like, again, there's these sentences with Bill that shouldn't make sense at this point, but like, you know, Bill Belichick couldn't find a job in the NFL is a sentence that makes no sense.

Sense. Bill Belichick wasn't a first ballot Hall of Famer is a sentence that makes no sense. And yet they're true.

Yeah. It was— was Sean Payton serious about that? Like, was— because we all have weird— Sean Payton especially. He's got— he's a little bit crazy. He's got weird thoughts when it comes to football. And they've been, you know, kind of a difference maker in his career that have, you know, he does things like an onside kick to start half of the Super Bowl. But how serious was he about—

he called a fake punt in overtime against the Bills in my story. I mean, holy cow, on 4th and 11. Yeah. It was more than a fanciful thought, but it wasn't a fully formed plan. I mean, it would've been just too complicated at the end of the day. It's just, it was a fanciful idea, but he did think about it. Mm-hmm.

What, who did you read growing up? Who were your, like, your authors that you looked at that made you wanna get into this?

Rick Riley, Rick Tellander, Gary Smith, and then later on, you know, Tom Geno, Jim Murray, um, Mike Wilbon. You know, Mike— I interned at the Washington Post and I didn't have a car, and the NBA draft was in DC that year, and he gave me a lift in his press box. There's his license plate was PRESSBOX with one S, I think, or maybe no O, I can't remember. But I was like, you know, that's, that's awesome, that's interesting. You know, those are the guys that I read. And, um, uh, you know, when you're young, you're, you're so impressionable And then, you know, as you— I had dinner last night with Rick Tellander, who's like a, you know, not only good friend but just like a hero of mine. And it's a special thing to kind of like grow into your own and then have these relationships that as a kid you just didn't see that happening.

Yeah, it's kind of similar. I mean, we have a relationship with, you know, like Chris Berman that we— that we just wrote about it in your book. Yeah, we wrote about it. Like Scott Van Pelt, Joe Buck, all these guys. It's like, it's pinch me moments. We're like, shit, I can consider these guys friends now. Yeah. What's, what's the hardest part about your job? Like when you're trying to get someone to tell you something and like, how does that process work? Because we were joking before, like, I don't really understand. We're not journalists. Never, never claimed to be. I don't really get how you guys are able to do it as well as you are because it always feels like you're of getting the secrets no one wants to say and then getting them, you know, to a point where you can print it. Uh, but what is that process like when you're trying to chase a story and it's like getting something out of someone? I'll give you a for instance.

So Van Natta and I did a lot of stories in the fall of '17 when Trump was coming after the players who were kneeling, and Kaepernick was kind of at the center of it even though he wasn't in the league. So we were writing about how the league office and the owners were handling this. And there's two stories that stand out. Number one, we were about to, a story was about to publish. I was getting casual drinks with an executive. And I asked him about something that Bob McNair had said that we had in our story. But I didn't, he thought I was talking about something else. So I mentioned, yeah, I heard Bob McNair at this meeting said. And he goes, oh my God, it was terrible. And I was like, what are you talking about? Because the thing I was going to ask about was not terrible. And he goes, what are you talking about? I was like, tell me, what are you talking about? And he said, you know, he said you can't have the inmates running the prison. And Troy Vincent got all pissed off, and it was this like uproar.

Jerry Jones gets up and backs McNair. I mean, it was horrible. So I was like, oh my God. So I called someone else and I said, "Hey, did McNair say this in this meeting?" He goes, "Yes, it was terrible. I gotta go." So I'm like, we have two people on this. I actually reached out to Amy Palsik at the Texans at the time and I said, "Hey, you know, I've been told he said this." And she said, "Yeah, he said it." Can I have some context to add? You know, whatever it is. So, you know, that piece of reporting comes out and that one caught fire. And then there was another story that Van Natta and I were doing where it was on, remember when Jerry Jones was threatening to sue the league to stop Roger from getting a contract extension? I mean, those were the days, right? I forgot about that, yeah. God, that was a good, that was a fun time. But we were doing this story, and it was, we were really proud of this story, but it was almost gonna ship, and it was in the magazine, and Don had gotten a tip that there was a really contentious phone call between Jerry, Jeff Pasch, and Roger Goodell, announced— when the league told him that Zeke Elliott was gonna be suspended.

And the guy told Don, he goes, look, I'm not at liberty to say what happened, but you guys should find out. So I called someone who I thought would know, and he goes, yeah, you know, there's this dialogue, and then Jerry says, you think Bob Kraft came after you hard? Bob Kraft is a pussy compared to what I'm gonna do to you. It's like, okay, yeah. So I called Don Don called somebody else, got it confirmed, you know. And so that's kind of like how these things come together. Like sometimes it's luck, like with the guy where, you know, it's— what are you talking about? Yeah. But, you know, I think that there's a— I think being able to get people on the phone quickly can help. But, you know, it's, it's hard. Those are high degree of difficulty stories. And, you know, I think that when we do them We wanted— you know, we're asking a lot of readers. They're long stories. And, you know, we— to do a story like that, you have to have— Don calls them like little bombs going off. Yeah. And then kind of big bombs too.

Yeah. Do you— do you find it thrilling when you— when you're chasing a story and like, do you get a rush out of that? I know you're supposed to kind of not be emotionally involved in the story as a journalist, but I would imagine like finding out, getting a tip, being like, hey, find out about this phone call, and then getting the actual details. Yeah. Has to feel good. Good.

Well, then there's two sides of it, right? There's the new— when, when maybe something is a new story. Like, I did this story years ago on when Cronky— remember this? The, the city of St. Louis sued the league over the relocation for like a billion dollars, and they settled for like 700-some million. And Cronky went in front of the owners, was like, I'm not paying this. Like, they're like, what are you talking about? You signed an indemnification agreement. Agreement as a condition of relocating. And that blew up. And so that was like one of those cool things where it became a news story. Um, when Don and I are working on these bigger stories or when he's doing them alone or I'm doing them alone, you know, again, you want— you're asking readers, as you guys know, it's, it's a competition for time. And so you want to feel like you're delivering them something new and noteworthy. And that is immensely satisfying.

We've always heard about guys like Jerry Robert Kraft being the you know, the most powerful voices in the NFL. I think Cronky has definitely put his name in that list as well. Is there anybody like behind the scenes that you look at and you're like, that person has, has now solidified themselves as having, you know, a sizable amount of power more than you might just think from the outside? Like, because I feel like Bob Kraft and Jerry, they still control a lot, but they're, you know, they're getting older. So there might be some more, you know, dynamic younger voices that are, you know, seeing the future of the league in their eyes. So who would those guys be? Well, they're all different.

And the funny thing about owners is that like they're all in this arranged marriage that they kind of hate but don't want to get out of. And so like, I think that one of the most interesting things about owners is how passive they all are. Like you see the votes for an initiative and like most votes are like, I think the Bengals always abstain. So they're always like 31 to nothing. There's very few votes. That are close. And so you see that, like, groupthink takes over quite a bit, right? At the end of the day, I think the most powerful owner isn't an owner, and that's Roger. Like, I think that Kraft and Jerry, they care, but Roger is an incredible— we always talk about how Roger knows how to manage the 32. I think at this point in his career, you know, Roger is making big decisions for the league and and is able to get owners on board rather than kind of just taking bullets for them. I mean, he's an incredibly influential executive. And I think that, you know, what the league is doing, often Jerry and Kraft are involved. And, you know, they're kind of funny frenemies.

But, you know, I think it's Roger. It's Roger's league. Yeah.

I mean, it does.

Like you have guys like Clark Hunt, you know, but like when you're talking about who's really influential under, you know, among that group, I think Cronky, you're right. Cronky is, but I think it's Roger.

Yeah. And that you're right. That has been like a change that we've seen from Goodell over the years to being the one who's got like the vision. And he knows now, he knows the personalities and how to manage those guys behind the scenes. So what do you think his biggest focuses are? Because he's getting another contract. he's, yeah, what is it, $60 million a year. What are his biggest focuses? Because now we're getting to the time, and this is kind of what I'm worried about with Goodell, like he's at the age where he is definitely thinking about his legacy and what he's going to leave behind in terms of, you know, he inherited a league that was going through some concussion lawsuits. He managed to kind of navigate through, through those in a way that I think, you know, it was good for the league. Ultimately, it didn't blow up in their face. Cases. So player safety would be one that he would, he would point to right now, but I feel like he's not done. Like there's something else that he wants to accomplish. What do you think that would be?

Yeah, I mean, in Don and I's story that's in the book about Jerry and Roger, he says, you know, one more contract after that, you guys have to figure out a successor. And that was two contracts ago.

Yeah. So these guys never— no, it's like Bob Iger. Like, well, he gets treated—

I mean, Roger gets to fly private to games. He gets treated like a luminary. You have power.

Why would you— like, they're addicted to it. I'm not saying that's a wrong thing, but it's all these guys that have this power, they never want to leave.

Yeah, I think 18 games international, and then I don't know if this is— this is on the minds of some league executives, is like, do we figure out a way to coordinate with college? Because college football is changing rapidly, has changed rapidly. Um, they're going to have an officially professional model at some point, you know, that's going to happen. And, you know, is there a way that the league and college football— you know, Brian Rolapp was like involved in that college, um, when, when Brian was at the league, he was involved in that kind of brain trust of, of college sports. Um, is there a way that they figure out to make their puzzle pieces fit? Yeah, I think those are interesting things. Like, I don't Maybe there's no impetus for the NFL to do anything official with college because they don't have to. It's their pipeline. But there might be a way that it benefits them financially. Smarter people than me will figure that out.

Yeah. Uh, who's the— who's, uh, someone that you've interviewed or gotten to know that, like, you just— you never really kind of fully figured them out? Is there someone like that where it's like, that— this person's so interesting and fascinating, and it's, it's like I keep trying to pick at it? I don't know if that, that maybe is a bad question, but no, talk to so many people that are so successful.

Yeah, how do you get a handle? Everybody has multiple selves, right? You know, that's the thing is that like, you guys, I think Andrew Luck's first big interview after the story I did with him was with you guys. Yeah, right. Yeah. And he was so fascinating. He's not that guy for me, but he was so fascinating because he was so transparent about it. Yeah. And he was basically like, I had to be all these different different people, and it was corrupting who I was. And so yes, the injuries played a role, but I didn't like who I was as a quarterback, right? And I had to figure out if it was worth it for me within that context. And there's very few people who have the self-awareness to do that. Um, you know, Belichick's endlessly fascinating. Yeah, you know, I mean, there's just— there's so many different iterations of him and people that he's both the truest person to his self, that I think that, like, Rex Ryan used to talk about how he thought it was cool that Bill could be a dick at his press conferences because that's, he was being true to himself.

He was being true to his personality. And it would be phony if he tried to do something else. And I think that, like, you know, watching Belichick throughout his career and just the staggering thought that goes into his decisions, and I am privy to a glimpse of it, you know, that to me is kind of endlessly interesting.

Yeah, I could see that.

I could see— I think Parcells, yeah, Parcells is someone that like I'll probably write about at some point because he kind of created this system that was dominant, you know, this ethos for 30 years, and it destroyed the lives of the people who became great at it. But it— and, you know, they— it and they won a ton of games and a ton of Super Bowls, but like so many things came out of his brain that influenced the league for so long. And now it seems like it's kind of turning. Yeah. And, you know, I'd be curious like what he thinks was worth it and what he thinks wasn't.

Yeah.

Yeah. Just like any quote that he had just influences people. When he says like, you are who your record says you are. Right. Like decades of coaches and owners and GMs, they just point to that one soundbite. And they're like, that's why I'm doing this today. Yeah, like, it's not true. You can be a really good team and you can have terrible luck. Yeah. And your quarterback's out for the season, and then you lose a bunch of games.

It was interesting to be with Sean Payton when, you know, I was there when Bo Nix— when he found out Bo Nix was out. And I don't know how you guys feel, but, you know, I think if Bo Nix is in that game, they're in the Super Bowl. Yeah, we also thought it was kind of crazy that he said it so quickly right after the Well, okay, so I didn't put this in the story, but it wasn't for any reason other than I can't include everything, you know, but it was, they were, he got the news. I was there. He was explaining the 4th and 11 punt to me. The trainer comes in, fake punt. The trainer comes in looking very solemn, but I didn't really pick up on it at the time. Sean keeps drawing the play on my notebook and then he says, all right, give me the news. Trainer's got a list of injuries. And, you know, he says, Bo, Bo fractured his ankle. He's gonna have surgery on Tuesday. His season's over. And it was like the room stopped.

Did Sean have any idea that that was coming? Because it, like, did anyone know he was hurt?

He got hurt. Yeah, but I don't think they thought it was that.

That was the crazy part. We know no one saw it. Was, you know, the second last play.

If you look at, like, the replays, since you see Bo's face where he kind of knows it's over. So anyway, I was with him there, and then they were like, what— immediately his, his mind switched to like, how can I use this to an advantage, getting the team ready? But they were like, how do we tell the team? And most of the players had dispersed at that point. I mean, they were going out, it was a Saturday night, I think. So, you know, they just won a playoff game, everyone's gone, and they didn't think the news would hold until the next team meeting. So that's why he went out and gave a second press conference.

Got it. So under Like your agreement with Sean Payton to shadow him, you, you're sitting there for that news. That's breaking news. If he doesn't say it that night, what do you do with it?

We would have had to have a conversation.

So you would have said to Sean, hey, you, this was said in front of me. I should probably tell Schefter or whoever, you know, someone. So, and, and what, what if he says, well, no, you, you get out of here?

Um, I don't think it would have come to that, but like you know, my agreement with Sean was pretty simple. I mean, I was writing everything I saw, right, as he asked for something to be off the record. And the only thing that they asked kind of to be off was the meetings where they talked about like time management and game management strategy, because teams could just lift that.

Yeah, yeah.

But, you know, yeah, we would have had to have that discussion, but it all happened really fast. And at that point I'm kind of a fly on the wall. There was only a couple people in the room. I mean, it was George Payton, Sean Payton, Patrick Smythe, the PR guy, and they were all strategizing, and it was a pretty quick decision to go call the press back.

Yeah. Are PR guys afraid of you? They have to be, right? I don't think so. When you call up a PR guy, are they like, fuck?

Nobody's ever said that, but I think that There's a little bit of like, oh boy, oh shit, yeah, yeah, what's going on here?

Because you're basically like, if they see your number pop up, it's basically just a pop-up being like, hey, guess what, the next like 2 weeks of your life are gonna fucking suck. And that's—

yeah, but PR guys can also be— look, and I've had good relationships with PR guys, I've had relationships that went sideways, but you know, they can be enormously helpful if you're honest. And I think you try to do your work in a professional way, and there's times that like, you know, that relationship gets messy. Yeah. But hopefully you end in a place where they feel like they were treated professionally. And, you know, there's lessons I've learned over the years and probably lessons that people have learned working with me, um, so that the next time things come around, hopefully it's a little bit easier. But sometimes it is just contentious.

Who's the— who's the person who's gotten the maddest at you before?

The Bills in 2003, when I did a story on Travis Henry, remember they drafted Willis McGahee? Yeah. They were upset with me. I'd imagine Stacy James at the Patriots has had some issues with Don and I over the years. I think that's it.

So, but do they call you and like try to yell at you and intimidate you or what? How's that work?

No, it's usually, sometimes people get heated. You're having a heated conversation, but it's not, you know, it's kind of within the context of what they're trying to accomplish and what I'm trying to accomplish. It's not a personal thing.

Yeah. Yeah. You should like once a year just call up like, I don't know, the Eagles or Jeffrey Lurie and be like, hey, I'd like to do a positive. You're about like a flag football team that you sponsor. Mm-hmm. Like just, you know, that way you're giving them, you know, a little carrot in, you know, addition to the stick that you have to call it later. Like plant that seed. Um, did you do like some fluff PR for the guys? That's all I'm saying. Like, make them happy.

That's not really me. I think they would— that, that's the thing they would probably get suspicious about. Yeah, they're like, there's no way this, this asshole is doing a thing on our flag football team.

A bit here in the, uh, in the after— the aftermath of, uh, the Bo Nix injury. Yeah, because I remember distinctly Kyle Shanahan saying that we would have called Philip Rivers to play for us in the Super Bowl if they had beaten the Eagles in that NFC Championship. Did the Broncos have Did you have any discussions about bringing somebody else in? Not that I was aware of.

I mean, I didn't see it. Yeah. I mean, Sean believed in, you know, he believes in Stiddy. Like, you know, it was true how he felt. You know, I mean, I think obviously Bo was his guy, but I think he thought that they had a good chance to win with Stidham. And, you know, Sean felt bad because he talked to Parcells Parcells, when it first happened, you know, when Parcells obviously won that Super Bowl with Jeff Hostetler and Jeff was protected by the coaches in a way that it's just, you know, Sean, it's a different game now, but Sean's also just like, you know, he's more aggressive. And I think he felt like that he didn't protect Stidham in that game as well as he should have, particularly on the fumble when he tried to lateral the ball away. You know, I think he felt like we should have just run the ball and punted. So that was like, those are the things that I think I think haunt coaches in very real and profound ways. Yeah.

Did you know Stidham might have a tail? PFT did a little investigation of his own. Yeah.

Going back to college, there's been heavy rumors about Jared Stidham possibly— These are the things you don't think about. Possibly being born with a vestigial tail.

That was— I did not see that when I was—

Yeah. Probably 100% fake because the best sources I had for it were like Auburn message boards. Right.

But you never know.

But these are stories. You never know unless you ask.

Yeah, right.

You never know unless you ask. Yeah.

So you read our book. Mm-hmm. What'd you think about it? Was it as poorly written as we thought it would— it came out? Because there are some— when we were doing the audiobook, there was moments where I was like, wait, like, did we not proofread this part? Did we not prove— did you see that?

You notice that there was a couple, but I also thought it might— could have been for effect. Obviously there's the open parentheses that you told me about, which is— I think that like you should just own it. And you know, it's— oh yeah, it was, it was intentional. Yeah, definitely.

And yeah, but I wish we had— the only regret on that one is I wish we'd closed it because that would have been very funny if the entire book had been a clarification of the first 8 pages.

Your book's doing well, so you'll have a second printing. So you should just do that.

Yeah. See if anyone catches it.

This right now, this is included inside that parenthesis. Yeah. Everything we put out, we just keep going.

You're on the record in the parentheses.

Redefine the parentheses. Fantasy. Yeah. I think it was cool. And like, look, I mean, I think people always want to know how a hurricane starts. And as it turned out, it starts over DM and Twitter and a couple of good parties. But like, I thought that was cool because again, you know, you guys are self-made people and you guys have created this platform that, you know, you go to training camp tours and you're getting the quarterbacks and you're getting the main guys and they want to come on and talk ball with you. And you know, how that happens, I think, is something that I think a lot of people can learn from.

As a journalist, do you ever look down at guys like us being like, they don't ask any of the hard questions? Because we know— there are times when I am— it's not like a— we know what the show is. The show is supposed to be fun, and that's been the ethos from the beginning. That's, I think, why we've been able to do what we do. But there are definitely times where we do an interview and I'm I'm like, yeah, I'm kind of a coward for not asking something there, but that's also not what we do.

No, I don't, because I think that everybody— we were talking about it. I mean, the football is so big. Yeah, that like there's room. It's fascinating how much room there is for all these people to occupy all of these different roles. Yeah. And you know, at the end of the day, we're all learning from a story that I write or an interview that you guys do. And the more knowledge you have is the more you can bring yourself to, you know, recognize something else down the road or use if you're ever writing about a guy. And so I don't, I don't look at it like that way at all.

Yeah, there's been definitely, you know, an evolution in the last, I'd say like 15 years, 20 years, when it comes to the written word and how it's monetized online, how—

yeah, or not. Yeah, or not monetized online.

And how that all feeds into like the future of journalism, whether it be in the NFL or just, you know, in the world in general. But from your lens in sports journalism, like, where do you see your role evolving to the future? Because you've been a great fit for like this day and age. And I think that it's shown that if you do serious journalism, there is a place for it online. But I get, you know, more and more pessimistic as the years go on that that will always be true. Like, and who knows what the next iteration is going to be? But where do you see it going?

I mean, I mean, I get the pessimism and I definitely, you know, you watch the Washington Post sports section close. I mean, that's, if someone had told me when I was an intern there that they were going to shutter it, I would have bet a year's compensation on that. I mean, I just, it's impossible to think about. The optimistic side is I think that like maybe we can like reinvent the genre in a way and maybe stories that Wright does, or that Don does, or Tim Keown does, that I try to do can hold readers and become something that is anticipated. Yeah, you know what I mean? And I think that, like, I remember, you know, when I was at the beginning of my career, Rick Tellander, my buddy, said, you know, you write, you write, you write, and eventually you kind of have like a product. And I couldn't I couldn't conceptualize what he was talking about at that point, but it happens. Right. You know, it happened with you guys to a huge degree. But like, you know, as you said, it's like people might see a byline and they come to expect something.

And if you can do that, then I think that like, it's a positive sign for the form, for those who do it and for those who want to cooperate in it. Like, you know, when I did the Andrew Luck story, he did not want to be on camera. Yeah, he did it partially because I think he liked me. I didn't know Andrew really before that, but like, you know, I think he liked the idea of a written story. And, you know, I was like, I can do that.

Yeah, no, it's great. All right, a couple last questions. So what's your favorite chapter on your new book Beyond That Hill, which again, September 15th 15th. Buy it. Uh, better— well, better written than, than our book, I would say. Well, uh, one closed parenthesis.

Yeah, but like, I don't know, you know, I, I, I'm, you know, obviously I've written a lot about football. I kind of major in football and minor in other things. And there's a story on Alex Honnold in there that I've always been really proud of because—

yeah, in the best way. In the best way.

But so interesting because like, you guys watch Free Solo. Yeah. And you're not only watching watching a maniacal obsession that, you know, is mind-blowing enough, but you're watching a guy who's kind of a jerk at times. Yeah. And I thought it was a really pure glimpse into greatness. And so when I got with him and I spent a couple days with he and his then-girlfriend but now wife, I was watching him try to be happy being domesticized. Yeah. And that was really fascinating. I mean, he was kind of a feral animal, you know. He lived in a van. I was with him the first day he moved into his house out of the van.

That must have been tough for him.

I think it was really foreign. And, you know, again, he kept telling me, I'm gonna be okay not doing something like that again, trust me, you know, I don't want to die, you know, all this stuff. And I was— I wanted to believe him, but I kind of knew better. And then you see, I think it was in January, he went and did that building in Thailand, right? Yeah, yeah, crazy. And he's smiling the entire time. He's got kids now. I know. So he's, those are the types of stories that like, look, there's a lot of good football stories in there, I think. But again, those little surprises I think are pretty cool.

That's how people like him. And like realizing like all the decisions that have to go into like picking out drapes.

Yeah. Alex Honnold mowing a lawn.

Well, no, he was. Why do I own drapes?

Yeah. He was, they were emptying the dishwasher and you know, he's like, what are we doing with this cup? You know? And like, it was kind of funny to just watch those conversations from a guy a guy who, you know, he did, you know, has some sort of space in his brain to be able to do those things that I don't think there's anyone on earth who can really relate to.

No, in a way his life was very simple before. It's like van, he loved that, van, rock. Yeah, that's it.

No, we were driving once to go climbing, which was a— I got exposed. I mean, my ass got exposed literally at one point because we were hiking to go to this wall that he wanted to climb. I ran out of gas on the hike to the wall, like, to the wall. And I'm like, hey, I'll meet up with you. And I got lost on the way meeting up with him. I could see him, but I got lost. And so I needed to slide down this big rock to get back on the trail. I eventually meet up with him, and Alex is like, hey dude, you know, you ripped a hole in the ass of your shorts. And I was like, what? I look at him like, well, nothing I could do now. Like, we're all up on this mountain. But we were driving to that. He said he saw someone in clearly a climbing van and he kind of was jealous, right?

Yeah, right. Oh, that's funny. My old life. Um, all right, well, Seth, this has been awesome. We have one last question. Rowback question. R-H-O-B-A-C-K dot com, promo code TAKE, 20% off your first purchase. Q-zips, polos, hoodies, joggers, shorts. Rowback.com, promo code TAKE. Zach, you ready for your question? Yes, sir. Zach Zach, did you read Zach's chapter on ice cream? Of course. Yeah. Did you like the spelling of Häagen-Dazs?

That was my favorite part of the book.

Different language, you know. Well, yeah, it might be German. No, it's actually not. They may— it's— Häagen-Dazs is famously from, I think it's New Jersey or Long Island. They wanted to make it sound foreign.

They put on— they got me.

They put on our front. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. But okay, go ahead with your question.

I was curious if there's ever been a a moment in your journalism career where you need to conduct a stakeout to get the information you needed to kind of put the pieces together?

A stakeout? No. I mean, you've definitely knocked on doors. When Van Natta and I were doing the Spygate to Deflategate story together, that was our first story together, you know, which was about how Deflategate was kind of a makeup call for what was conceived of, what was perceived as a lenient punishment for Spygate and years of cheating. Um, you know, we didn't do staking out, but we definitely did what, you know, shoe leather, knocking on doors. And, um, you know, it was some pretty determined stuff. It wasn't just over the phone or in like one meeting over dinner. I mean, that was like a shitload of work, and a lot of it was finding guys' addresses, knocking on their doors, seeing if they'll talk, and, um, you know, trying to learn ways the Patriots either exploited rules or flat out broke them in the run-up to that.

So is that where you land on the whole thing, that Deflategate way overblown, Spygate probably under, you know, uh, well, that's, that was the gist of our story.

Yeah. And it was a strange story in the sense that like we started working on it together. We called an owner and he said, this is a makeup makeup call. And it was, you know, usually you're very, um, you're pursuing a story wherever it takes you, and, you know, you sort it out once you have all the material. And in a weird way, that story, we had the point of it right away. And so the entire story was like, how do we take readers from here to there and fill in, you know, a makeup call? How does that work? How did— why was it necessary? What did the Patriots do? What did teams suspect the Patriots did that they actually didn't do? Because the Patriots were just in everyone's heads. All of those things were the questions that we tried to explore in that book. And some of the gamesmanship— or in that story— and some of the gamesmanship that happened, you know, during the league in those times, kind of pre-cell phone camera and a little bit less attention on it, was really, really funny. Like, some teams would leave fake play call sheets.

There was a, you know, Patriots would sometimes take the scripted plays, would kind of slip them out of a locker room or whatever, and from the opponent. And, you know, the paranoia and the fun that they— that other teams tried to have with— yeah, Peyton Manning talking outside of the locker room at all times when he was at Gillette Stadium with his coaches. Some teams leaving dummy play sheets, you know, out for the Patriots to grab. That type of stuff, I think it's— it, it gets to the heart of the game in a kind of a really interesting way that I think makes it more interesting for fans because because that's the good stuff. I mean, those are the things that's really hard to find out and also shows a layer to the way that these guys operate that I think both within New England and beyond that I think is pretty cool.

Do you think there was any truth to that, that the Patriots had the locker rooms bugged? No, I don't.

But I think Bill kind of liked being in teams' heads. Yeah, voodoo. Yeah, liked letting teams think that they were bugged that they were raiding their hotel rooms and doing all these— I think he kind of liked that because— and I think that other teams used that to their advantage, were like, you know, these guys, you can't leave your stuff out. Whether it was true or not, that stuff kind of took on a life of its own.

Everyone became on edge. All right. Well, Seth, thank you so much. Congrats on another book. Congrats. Another bestseller. Did we— we probably ruined bestsellers for everyone after us in terms of the fact that, like, we should not be on that list.

No, cheapen the brand. It's like when Three 6 Mafia won an Oscar. We can't close a parenthesis.

We don't know how to do that. It's some basic—

hey man, you weren't— you were in the spot.

Oh, all right. Well, thank you so much for stopping by, and we'll definitely do it again.

So sounds good, man. Thank you, guys.

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Let's finish up Guys on Chicks. Uh, by the way, Friday, JOC Fantasy.

Can't wait. You can't wait. He's got—

he's got a lot in store. He's been doing a lot of saving for the show for me because I spent, uh, I spent like maybe 8 hours with him yesterday. Zach was witness to a lot of it. He did a lot of saving the show.

He started the show for sure.

He started to like tell me a joke that he was going to say and I was like, save the show. I was like, yes, I appreciate that. I'm very excited for his fantasy preview.

Yeah, Jerry's been— his sentence always starts with, wait, are we being recorded right now? Correct. Because I told him one time that I owned a pair of Meta sunglasses.

Yeah, and what he doesn't realize is I've been wired the entire week.

And also there's cameras everywhere. Everywhere. No, Jerry, we're not. Well, just tell him that we're not live tomorrow.

He also says, are we being recorded? And then he says like the most benign thing. Yeah, it doesn't—

it has no bearing whatsoever if we were being recorded or not. Yeah. All right, Hank, rip it.

Hey, Big Cat, PFT, Hank, Max, Zach, and me. Shane now. Yeah, it's Shane now. My boyfriend went away with his friends last weekend for a golf trip slash beach weekend. As you'd imagine, they drank too much every day. My boyfriend fell asleep on the toilet. This is the second time in a few months he's fallen asleep on the toilet. It happens. Neither time I've been around, so I guess that's a plus. Should I be worried about that? No, not at all.

Uh, this actually— it ended up happening to me just a couple months ago, actually like one month ago. On the toilet? Fell asleep on the toilet. I was, I was, uh, in the Jersey Shore. We had a little house that was on the beach, big house with a lot of friends. Um, actually not that big of a house cuz only had I think two bathrooms, one upstairs, one downstairs. Middle of the night I woke up, went to the bathroom, sat down on the toilet at some point, didn't poop, just kind of sat there. Yeah. And fell asleep and one of the girls that was in the house opened up the bathroom door and was like, oh hey. I was like, oh, someone's in here. Yeah, someone's sleeping in here. Get your own bedroom. But that's, that's the universal thing that you have to say when somebody opens the door on you. Listen, there's nothing wrong with it. It's just a comfortable seat sometimes.

Yeah, I, uh, I think the, the toilet, falling asleep in the shower, those, those two things are okay. I've, I've never done that. Oh, I passed out in the shower in college. College I've passed out in the shower. I think the only thing that you have to be nervous about, uh, because this actually happened to my roommate, I— when I was like 22, we had a 5-bedroom, uh, house in Lakeview, and my roommate fell asleep drawing himself a bath, uh, and that flooded everything.

Yeah, that's not good.

That was bad. That was really bad.

Are we talking a lights-off shower, a dark shower?

Uh, yeah, or like, you know, like if if you're in a shower with a seat or something, kind of nodding off real quick. But I've been definitely in college, I've had hangovers or drunks like where I've laid down in the shower and then just fell asleep.

That's a sign of a healthy body. Yeah, it's being ready to get your rest in a moment's notice.

I haven't done it in many, many years, but I think both those, depending on how much you drink, are acceptable.

My husband of 16 years hates LeBron James. Games, but every time he sneezes, he does the LeBron chalk toss and laughs hysterically. I thought it was funny the first time 16 years ago, but now he has gotten our 14-year-old, 11-year-old, and 6-year-old to do the same thing, even though they all hate LeBron. Is this normal?

Yeah, the more I think about it, it's kind of actually fucked up. Yeah, he's just spreading his germs.

Yeah, but also kind of funny.

Yeah, true.

Yeah, it is funny to get your kids into it too. Yeah, that's kind Funny. Yeah, that's gotta be Dude's Rock.

But also, like, LeBron should apologize for that. Yeah, for like being that sort of an influence.

Well, it's also LeBron's fault for his longevity, because you didn't think when he started this there— you were like, no way this is gonna last another 16 years.

Yeah, and it has. Yeah, you're like, I'm just— I'm a shithead 20-year-old. Oh wait, now I'm a 36-year-old with a mortgage and 3 kids.

Max is gonna fucking love the chalk tosses.

Okay, yeah, except Max does it with a bag of something else. Uh, congratulations.

When he's making bread, he's cooking with Chef Donnie, doing bread, making bread with Max.

That's what I was saying.

With all the excitement that the World Cup brought to the United States, how can you not be excited about international teams? One of the best things about being American is rooting against other countries. I personally cannot wait to begin a rivalry with other European nations.

Hashtag I'm with Hank. Wait, he's— they're talking about football.

This lady's talking talking about with the World Cup excitement. How can you not be excited about the NFL having international teams?

I don't, because all different— all the players would be American. Oh, I just realized something. Fuck. You know what's gonna suck? All of our, all of our years of joking about American teams winning the Stanley Cup is gonna bite us in the ass when like the, the Philippine Tigers win the Super Bowl, and we're like, no, those are all American guys.

They're like, well, fuck, that's never gonna happen.

It's never Hank's world. It is. Honestly, I hope I'm dead by the time there's teams in other countries.

That's too much. Not my league. But Shane, imagine all the sick uniforms you're gonna have.

Oh God, oh God.

All right, is that it? Uh, last one.

Rivalry uniforms for the international national, like France versus Germany, that would go hard.

Question for guys on chicks: why do guys constantly practice their golf swing? I'll be in the middle of a conversation with them and they are just air swinging a golf club. My boyfriend got an indoor putting green for Christmas and will randomly get off the couch, go to his room, and practice chips and putts. It makes no sense to me at all.

It sounds like you shouldn't be a driver.

Dry reps. Dry reps. You got to train your body. I would do it.

I could see why people do it. I— unfortunately, my golf swing is so bad, I don't know what I'd be practicing. Like, what do you— like, you know how it's like the whole practice perfect?

Yeah.

I, I mean, what am I practicing for? Like, I would— if I practice my golf swing with no club in my hands, I'd still slice.

I see a video on Instagram and then it gets me, gets me thinking, and it's usually like algorithm instructor where it's like, hey, do this when you're not, you know, you know, practice without a golf club in your hand and do this 100 times a day. And then, you know, I do like 10 of them.

Do you know who I love? I think— I can't remember what his name is. Golf Strong Hit Bombs? No, the guy who wears like really nice clothes.

Yes, I know you're talking about. He's fucking awesome. He just talked about like the—

yeah, knees. Yeah, I— ah, fuck, I wish I had his name. Yeah, it's like Jimmy something or something. He's— shout out that guy. He actually— Jimmy Tropicana. Shout out Jimmy Tropicana. Chopacana. He's a good follow. He makes things look like, like simple. And also, I like what he does where he relates your golf swing to like hitting a baseball or throwing a baseball, and that always clicks in my head where I'm like, oh, okay. He's like, if you threw a baseball, you wouldn't do this. I'm like, yeah, you know what, I wouldn't do that. And then I still slice. But Jimmy Chopacana, thank you. And you fucking dress really well, man. Guys should support guys. You're good-looking. Guy. All right, good show, boys. Good show. Really good show. Uh, fun show. Yeah, really. We don't have numbers. Really good show. Do you want to do it on there? Random generator. No one wants to win this.

No. 7, 3. We go with, uh, 0.

I think you can just—

yeah, use Pardon My Balls. Pardon my balls. Yeah.

The chair is just so good. Sorry, Zach. Oh, we gotta get out of here. Oh my God, oh my God, we gotta get out of here. Spin it, we gotta get out of here. Spin it, Shane, spin it. Oh my God, 48.

All right, okay, no one cares, we're done. Uh, happy birthday to, uh, I'm sorry, Nas Reed. Happy birthday to Kyren Williams. Happy birthday, Mother Teresa. Get out, get out. Happy Happy birthday, Macaulay Culkin. Happy birthday, Liddell Betts, Jim Tomei, Aaron Paul, Cesar Millan, Pee Wee Herman. Happy birthday to Savannah James. Knock it out of the park. With all due respect.

Love you guys.