Transcript of Dan Is Happy For Pat McAfee (feat. Pablo Torre) | Hour 1

Howdy folks, it's Mike Ryan. You know, The Labattard Show and Miller Lite go way back. Pretty much, I want to say like 95% of our existence we've been partnered with Miller Lite. And we believe in Miller Lite, they believe in us. It's great to have a partner with a product you truly love. That's me with Miller Lite. I love Miller Lite, always have. In fact, I consider myself a bit of a Miller Time MVP.

The friend who says they've got it.

I'll pick the spot. I'll throw the cooler in the trunk, bring some Miller Lite, and suddenly what was supposed to be a couple of hours turns into a whole afternoon. That's me, the Miller Time MVP. And it's great for summer hangs. Cools the body down, that beautiful white can. Not much better than an ice cold Miller Lite because it's brewed for taste with simple ingredients. Clean, refreshing, and easy to drink in the Miami heat. An all-American summer starts with an all-American beer. Miller Lite. Go to millerlite.com/dan to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

You are listening to the Dan Lebatard Show in partnership with the DraftKings Sports App. Now live in all 50 states.

This episode of the Dan Lebatard Show is presented by DraftKings Sports. Kings, the crown is yours.

Before we get to some sound from Jayson Tatum at a kids camp that sounds like it's passively, uh, passive-aggressively directed at Jaylen Brown, uh, I want to put in front of you guys another story that I feel misrepresents what I think, what I said, and how I feel. So in the first hour, I'm telling you that the New York Post is reporting that I say the Heat are furious over something when it's a whole lot of people and they're curious, not furious.

I understand how that mistake can happen. But I never said they were furious because I didn't talk to anybody who was furious. There was nobody I spoke to who was furious.

And so that's, uh, just blatantly inaccurate to say that anybody was furious, uh, according to my reporting.

But the Big Lead, uh, had a headline, and I did not read this story because I have checked out for a while on reading things that are about me, at least in part because there are so many bad faith agitators who are just sort of using anything I say in order to write the story that they want to write.

And my entire life, Zazz, I've been the one who has been arguing in defense of the media when people just do the blanket claim of the media is biased. And I say no, some of the media is biased, but there are a great many people who are aspiring to objectivity, even though it's a bit of a human illusion.

And there are plenty of people who are trying to not be biased, and I've been a defender. But there are many people now, more than ever I would say, or more than in my lifetime, who are just simply bad faith operators who who are taking whatever it is you say and figuring out how to squeeze the juice out of it so that they can get their clicks on conflict. And so the headline on The Big Lead is something that I do not feel. It says, Dan Lebatard's hypocrisy is clear with latest Pat McAfee ESPN claim.

The former ESPN personality isn't happy with McAfee's growing influence at the network.

That's not true. It's just not true. I've never said at any point that I'm unhappy with his growing influence at the network. That's not— and the reason I know it's not true is because it doesn't exist inside of me. It's not, it's not something that I'm sitting here thinking, feeling in any way. So I know I haven't said it because it's not something that I feel.

I think the opposite is true. I, I think you are happy for Pat and his story.

It's not just that I'm happy for Pat and his story unlike any in the history of sports media. It's also that anything that happens good for Pat is good for us. I remember how happy Pat was when we signed our deal because he's like, oh, now I know what we're worth. One of the things that no one seems to understand about the business of this, and I don't know how interested people are. Even Mike last week was saying about Game Day, etc. No, man, his show, 3 hours a day in that time slot, pays for itself. Like, First Take is 2 hours. There aren't that many 3-hour shows that you can put in that time slot that wouldn't pay for themselves. And I am sure that ESPN gets all of his YouTube money too, all of the stuff on— I'm sure, or whatever the rev share is, I'm positive that ESPN pays him that way, man. They listen to what McAfee did. He had a deal with FanDuel that was like our deal with DraftKings, tore it up because ESPN said, come over here, we'll give you a better deal and you can keep all of your own stuff and we'll help you grow your platform 3 hours a day on our network.

Then he goes there and they tear up that deal at ESPN before they have to because Pat McAfee pays for himself. People do not understand that Stephen A. Smith and Pat McAfee what they're being paid. ESPN recoups all that money. That's why they're paying them that way. And it's why they're— it's part of why they're getting rid of some of the people who don't pay for themselves that way. There are other reasons also that they are getting rid of some of those people. The thing I'm objecting to, and McAfee just happens to be in the middle of it as a pro wrestling figure, a heel, and somebody who's dropping an album, and, and the album is about how polarizing it is.

The other thing that I'm objecting to is the course correction after George Floyd that runs.

There's not a Hispanic perspective you're going to get from anybody on ESPN on anything. And any pro-Black voices who are talking about Black things, you're not even— it doesn't seem like there's the space for anyone to do it. Even if there are a couple of people there who can do it, it doesn't seem like there's the space to do it. And then Ryan Clark goes on his podcast, The Pivot, and breaks down weeping because he's not allowed to be Black on ESPN, according to him.

So I read the whole thing. I know, I know you didn't. I think the way that the headline is framed is unfair to you. But then I read the article and look, you said those things. And when you were saying those things, I'm like, man, someone's gonna run with this because Pat's a lightning rod. And anytime you weigh in on the media, people feel like they have license because it does numbies. You get the clicks. So I was like, man, this is probably not going to go a good way for Dan. They didn't misquote you. It allowed for people to take this license.

The second headline is absolutely a misrepresentation of what I said.

I agree.

But I do think the hypocrisy that they're pointing to— and man, I wish we had the juice that people thought we had, which was we rode that wave when their ideology was headed in a different direction. We got big. We were on ESPN Radio. We were on— we were platformed. We got more opportunities than we ever did. And that was during a time where John Skipper was intentionally trying to diversify his lineup and bring in different people from different walks of life. And represent something that was considered by the right more woke, whether that was fair or not. So we benefited from that, and I think Pat is benefiting from a clear course correction, but he is spearheading that course correction as a megastar talent who, as you said, pays for himself and works very hard and does a lot of extra shit beyond filling 3 hours a day on ESPN1. I think he's totally worth it, but you did give people the license to twist those.

I don't think it matters whether I give them the license or not. If I'm speaking freely about anything here, the license is gonna be taken on whatever angle it is that you have to get to your clicks.

I was talking about—

and it's part of the transaction, and I get that— but I was talking with some friends of mine because I happened to be having breakfast in a place the other day where Shakira was.

Lucky dog.

It's a bar.

Breakfast Friends.

Um, add it to the list. She is impossibly tiny.

Who cares?

What do you mean?

I mean, whatever.

She's impossibly tiny.

I'll put you down as not a Shakira guy.

Tiny.

I'm, I'm not saying—

impossibly tiny.

How tall?

Hey man, we can all be perfect.

What?

How tall do you think she is?

I think she's very short, but the hips don't lie.

3 foot 9.

Um, she is the single smallest person before— who isn't a little person— that I've ever seen. Before this, it was Donna Shalala.

I—

the first time I ever saw Donna Shalala, I couldn't believe it.

She's not Donna Shalala.

She cannot be.

She's shorter.

No, she can't be.

She's shorter.

No, I don't believe it.

No, I don't believe you.

Nobody is shorter than Donna Shalala.

No one.

Come over. No one.

Come over here.

I'm going to show you a picture.

Tiniest person ever.

She is listed— I looked it up. I had to look it up. She's listed as—

she's not shorter than Donna Shalala.

She's like this tall as Donna Shalala. Mike, I'm gonna show you a picture right and you tell me if this person is or isn't just a porcelain doll.

Get in here, Mike.

Because this is not— and she is shorter than Donna Shalala.

Look at it.

It looked like she was sitting in someone's lap when she was just sitting next to that person.

I can't tell.

She's sitting down.

Well, she's—

The arms are short, but that's not shorter than Donna Shalala.

She's got to be 4'7".

I'm not kidding you.

No way.

She's still next to Berner Boy.

They—

when I saw her, I thought to myself, she is perpetually placed next to people who are very small so no one will know how small she is. There is simply no way that the world at large knows how tiny Shakira is.

IMDb has her at 4 foot 11 and 3/4, so about 5 feet.

No, I, I saw what I saw was her listed at 5 and 3/4 too.

How did IMDb get that?

Look, there's no one who's 5 foot 11 and a half, and there's no one who's 4 foot 11 and a half. Those are all Lies.

Like, no one—

there's no one. There's no one on Earth who's 5'11", who says they're 5'11.5" or 4'11.5". That's— so that's how you know that that's a lie.

I have routinely stood next to Donna Shalala. There is just simply no way. But thank you for the visual of her doing die die at the World Cup.

The internet says Donna Shalala is 5 feet.

I can testify Donna Shalala's hips also don't lie.

Wow. Cut that up.

The story though that I was headed toward is that's a level of fame that is wildly uncomfortable, and I don't know I don't know how many people would just want that level of fame, 'cause there were bodyguards, there were a whole bunch of things around her.

But I was saying to Valerie, the reason that I like the place that I occupy with fame being just very small is that what I got in New York, and it's all I got in New York, and it was lovely to get in New York, was, "WFAT!" You're finally popular in New York as a noted Knicks guy.

Yeah.

Oh, let's play the Jason Tatum sound here. Who could this be about? Like, this, this thought that's in his head is only in his head for one reason, right?

Being a leader doesn't mean you know it all, right? I, I don't know it all. I'll be the first person to say that being a leader is being comfortable with raising your hand. Like, Michelle, I don't know. Can you explain that to me? I don't know X, Y, and Z. I want to learn, right? Somebody been around somebody, they feel like they know it all. I don't want to be around that person, right? I don't want to be the smartest person in the room. I want to learn from somebody else.

That's unfortunate if he didn't mean that, because he picked the exact words that were reported about Jaylen Brown being the smartest guy in the room.

Yeah. He's either taking a shot at Jaylen Brown or he's stupid, because you'd have to be stupid not to understand how that's going to be perceived.

It's helping the kids out there, like Coach Tony Fiorentino across the street. Make your bed, do your thing. Like, Jason Tatum's just trying to help out kids, be like, hey, don't be the cool guy. Raise your hand, say I don't understand something. Don't try to be the smartest guy in the room.

It's helping.

As a businessman, Kevin Hart, who wants to be a billionaire, articulates many of the same thoughts of loving to walk into rooms and wanting to be in rooms where he's not the smartest person because he wants to do learning from people who are smarter than him. But the thing that's being attached to Jaylen Brown, as far as I could tell— Colin Cowherd, who has exactly zero Celtics sources, uh, was making that argument, saying, uh, that Jaylen Brown is giving off that he thinks he's the smartest guy in every room.

There hasn't been anyone else saying that. And I've told you before, I'm, I'm really uncomfortable with some of that analysis because it's a dog whistle a couple of steps short from uppity. Like, oh, you think you're that smart?

Oh, you're not that smart. You're not that smart.

Like, it's a— being smart's not a bad thing. Thinking you're smarter than everyone is a bad thing. I don't think Jaylen Brown thinks he's smarter than everyone. I think Jaylen Brown is just smart. And so using that as a smear, using that as a scalpel to cut somebody, it bothers me. But you, you don't think that can be an accident? Because Jayson Tatum would have been fine until that last sentence. Smartest guy. I don't need to be the smartest guy in every room. I think he would have gotten away with nobody picks up that that sound if he doesn't use that as the last sentence.

We did play audio of Jaylen Brown responding to that criticism, and he didn't exactly deny it. He was just like, "Yeah, that's not really a high bar.

Athletes are dumb." He did do that. "I am the smartest guy in every locker room." Yeah, I'm the smartest guy.

He didn't deny that he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, but that's just because athletes are dumb.

Well, I don't know whether you guys think—

I don't know how you guys think of Draymond Green. I actually think that Draymond Green is very bright and also happens to have a temper problem. But I happen to think he's bright. And maybe you don't think that. He says, no, no, Jaylen Brown's, Jaylen Brown's really smart.

It's book smart, it's street smart, it's all the smart, it's intellectual IQ, it's, it's emotional intelligence. Like it's all the kinds of, of smart, which is not something that I associate necessarily with Jayson Tatum and And I do think that smart, too smart, can be unlikable and threatening. I think that both of those things are in play where just— I don't think it's a flaw to be too smart. I don't look at that as something that you can use to wield and cut somebody with. You're too smart. But for people who aren't, it can be threatening. And so you think what there? You think he's absolutely— no question about it, it's not a mistake, he's telling a bunch of kids I'm not Jaylen Brown. I— that you think that's what he's teaching the kids? Don't be Jaylen Brown, be me. You think that's his message?

I think he's doing both. I think the advice that he's given there is sound advice. I think he's giving good advice to those kids. And at the same time, one of the criticisms during this whole thing between Jaylen Brown and the Celtics was— this is before the trade— why hasn't Jayson Tatum said anything? He's completely quiet. Why is he not defending Jaylen Brown here? Oh, well, it must be because he actually agrees with the Celtics and he aligns with management that it's kind of enough of Jaylen Brown. And the first time that— have we heard from Jayson Tatum before this camp? The first time we hear from him, upon giving sound advice to kids, he's also using the exact same words that would lead us to believe that he's talking about his former teammate.

I should say, not wanting to be the smartest person in the room is a noted cliché. It is great mentorship advice to give to kids. It is a credo that I live by, not wanting to be the smartest person in the room. I want to surround myself with people that are smarter than me, and I learned that from a cliché that was handed down to me from my dad. So I know that you can look into this, but is this a Curiously Furiously situation? He's just espousing a noted cliché.

The same way LeBron was when he said to trust the process at Fanatics Fest and then ends up in Philadelphia.

Howdy folks, it's Mike Ryan. You know, the Love It Tarded Show and Miller Lite go way back. Pretty much, I want to say like 95% of our existence we've been partnered with Miller Lite and we believe in Miller Lite. They believe in us. It's great to have a partner with a product you truly love. That's me with Miller Lite. I love Miller Lite, always have. In fact, I consider myself a bit of a Miller Time MVP. The friend who says, "They've got it, I'll pick the spot, I'll throw the cooler in the trunk, bring some Miller Lite," and suddenly what was supposed to be a couple of hours turns into a whole afternoon. That's me, the Miller Time MVP. And it's great for summer hangs, cools the body down, that beautiful white can. Not much better than an ice cold Miller Lite because it's brewed for taste, with simple ingredients, clean, refreshing, and easy to drink in the Miami heat. An all-American summer starts with an all-American beer, Miller Lite. Go to millerlite.com/dan to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time.

Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

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Dan Levitar.

What is the worst part of the life?

Jonathan Sasslow.

The worst part of the life of what?

This is the Dan Levitar Show.

Another basketball story that Udonis Haslem was resurrected this week because I guess we were talking about Bam and Tyler and fights and Udonis Haslem was talking about how common fights are. Pat Riley, when he sat down with us here, also was talking about how common fights are. It was actually Ray Allen who taught me a great deal about the idea of, hey, we're not in our feelings around here.

Like if something needs to be solved, two people will go to a fight and then the fight will be over and it's solved. Like, it's not— I would think that if any of us around here got into a fistfight with each other and somebody just took an unholy beating, I would think that whoever took the unholy beating would hold on to it for the rest of their lives. That's not quite how sports works. And so Udonis Haslem was telling the story about James Johnson. James Johnson, for those of you who do not know, is the baddest man in the history of the Miami Heat, Udonis Haslem included.

There has never been somebody who has been more actually menacing than James Johnson.

James Johnson, also a great reference point when Zazz thinks that our athletes could win all of the soccer games if all our athletes played soccer. James Johnson, an unbelievable athlete who was just okay at basketball, just okay compared to other people at basketball.

I had him as LeBron.

James Johnson should have been One of your top 52 sports stars, one of them should have been, I believe he's undefeated in MMA. I believe he has fought a couple of professional fights and I don't believe that he has lost. But Udonis Haslem is telling the story and we don't know who the teammate was of there being an issue with James Johnson and the way it was solved is outside afterward, okay? And then James Johnson just beat the holy hell out of that teammate.

I ain't gonna say no name, but somebody on our team called JJ a bitch.

JJ said it.

J.J.

said, hey, you gotta see me after practice.

Everybody say, oh shit.

Everybody say, hey, you know that, that's the, that's like, man, stall him out, D-Bo. Man, stall him out. And J.J. was already, his mind was made up.

He said, nah, fuck that. Hey, listen, let me tell you something.

Someone tells you they gotta see me after practice.

Hey, listen, let me tell you something.

That people with neck tats, you know, all right here and all that. I said, yeah, you off the charts. You off your rocker anyway. Let me tell you something, man. Listen, that man called that man the I looked at this, I said, man, JJ, don't do that. He said, man, listen, stay out of this, stay out of this, bam. The funniest part about it, dog, JJ ended up balling this man up like he ain't got no kids.

That man up quick, man.

Listen, towels flying.

You know our equipment manager Rob? Shout out Rob, man.

Shout out, man.

Rob getting in, hey man, get away from my towels, you messing up my towels. And I'm just looking at this man following this man up and I'm like, yeah, listen, JJ got done. He said, you all right? And he walked out, walked out, this man crying, sniffling.

They hugged it out.

I don't believe sports are like most workplaces in this regard. James Johnson also was somebody when the basketball got lodged between the rim and the backboard one time, impressed everyone because he kicked it kicked it out instead of knocked it out with his hand.

What?

Yeah, he did it with his foot.

He kicked the ball out.

I don't— I didn't think that a foot— put it on the poll at Levittard Show. Can anyone touch the rim with their foot? Yes or no? Can anyone in the world touch the basket— a 10-foot basketball rim with their foot? Because James Johnson dislodged a basketball that was stuck between the rim and the backboard.

I think Wemby did it this year. So anybody other than that, I don't think so. But Wemby, I think, did it this year with his foot. With his foot, he kicked it out from where exactly that place is between the—

get the hell out of here.

I'm pretty sure Wemby did it. By the way, James Johnson, 27-0, his fight record, 20-0 in kickboxing, 7-0 in MMA.

I want to know who the teammate was that he beat up.

Anyway, so there were 3 M's.

It's a—

yeah, this is MMA.

It's a bigger league than just merely smaller, smaller league.

Less known.

Uh, James Johnson had a Heat player calling for his ma Mama, mama, mama. Who was the Heat player?

Do we have any guesses? Do we have— do we want to go through some rosters?

Do we want Pablo Torre to find out?

Do—

would you like to know who James Johnson was beating up with such ferocity that they just curled into a ball sniveling?

So what we're looking at here is the Bam Adebayo story of him being a rookie, right, where James Johnson was calling him 13 because he hadn't passed the conditioning test yet. So I'm going to his rookie year where James Johnson and Udonis Haslem were both on the team, which is 2017-2018 Miami Heat, right?

Roster.

And I'm looking across here, and I don't think it was Drojic. Could it be the man with the golden arm? Oh, you think Wayne Ellington said something to, uh, to James Johnson?

I don't think so.

We got Tyler Johnson. You think Tyler?

I think it could be Tyler Johnson.

You think it'd be Tyler?

Yeah, I do, I do.

What about Rodney?

I was thinking Rodney.

Luke Babbitt.

Rodney Buford.

No, no, no.

Rodney McGruder. Oh, whatever. Like, these are famous Miami Heat names.

It's Rodney. Don't you remember Draymond Green around here?

You don't think it was Hassan? Yeah, that's a leader.

Ooh, I don't know.

No, but he wouldn't have had Hassan balled up.

Yeah, I don't know.

Hassan's a big boy, dude.

All right, I'm going to reach out to him.

Dion Waiters?

I'm going to start reaching out to some people now too.

I feel like it could be Dion Waiters.

Derrick Jones?

I got two that it could be.

While we're looking this up, Roy, please play the stories of James Johnson on with us.

Just what he grew up around, why his family is a family of fighters.

We've got a handful of stories on this front. Play one of them while I'm looking this up.

Did you know better as a kid than to talk back to your mother or your father?

Nah, our opinion meant little to nothing. It was their way or nothing. And, you know, if you disagreed or you wanted to backtalk, it wasn't no normal swat on the butt or no take off his belt or get a switch. It was none of that. It was, "Let's get in the ring real quick 'cause obviously you think you're more of a man than me, or you think you can beat me up to talk to me like this.

If you wanna talk to me like this, then you must think you can beat me up." What's the worst L that one of them caught, the one that let you know that you didn't want those problems.

My older brother, the oldest one, he started talking to my dad and things like that, you know, they got a little heated and they put on the gloves. They was about to spar or whatnot. And my brother had bowed to my dad, which is a respect thing. And that wasn't the intentions of what my dad was going in to fight him for. He's going in there to fight you 'cause you broke respect. You ain't, I don't think you, You're supposed to skip the bow after that. It's like dapping somebody, you know, like shaking someone's hand and they punch you real quick or something. That's exactly what happened. He bowed and his head happened to be down, eyes happened to be down, and it was the meanest uppercut I think I've ever witnessed. I don't even think Iron Mike had an uppercut like that.

Regrettable chuckle fest over the child abuse.

Play on for me.

The child abuse.

You had it played on before he made the allegation. Your play on, you allowed it to play on before anyone heard him actually say the words child abuse that Bomani and I were laughing at. Let's play the sound. There's a— there's better sound than that because I believe that the toughest—

you talk about child abuse—

I believe that the toughest person in the Johnson family was mom.

Give us the most memorable story involving mom being a disciplinarian. It sounds like you probably have some good ones.

She was the one who always threw stuff. It was— it was no matter what was close to her, you know, knife, ninja star, broom, pan. She was the one, and she was the most accurate, you know. I never seen her miss. And she knew she couldn't catch us. We always ran from her, but that's why she got good at throwing, I guess. That's my best, my best story. My brother got hit. My brother got hit with a— she—

I—

that was the first thing in front of her was a knife. I'm not saying my mother's dangerous or crazy, but that was— she was eating, eating her dinner. That was the first thing that was in front of her that she saw when she wanted to get my little brother, and she picked it up and threw it. And I don't think she thought she was gonna hit him, but she stuck my little brother. And then after that, you know, he screams, he cries, whatnot. And then she starts crying 'cause she didn't mean to do it. And that got to be the most memorable one when she had to be a disciplinarian.

Brandishing a butter knife. I'm gonna pretend that that was a butter knife. I prefer than one of these sharper utensils.

Could have been plasticware.

A spork.

Who, uh, Tyler Johnson's a good guess.

I got Tyler Johnson or Dion Waiters.

Dion's a good one.

I feel good about those two, although I don't know that they would say—

I don't know that those two would be— Hassan is the one that would be, uh, unwise enough to say that to James Johnson.

And I don't have James Johnson picking a fight with a smaller dude, but Hassan wouldn't be balled up.

He's too big.

Sure, he would have been.

I, I think against someone who was 27-0 in kickboxing I mean, it's clearly someone who knows how to fight. 27-0 is a pretty good record.

And I feel like it's more noteworthy to say they were balled up. If it's Tyler Johnson, I don't even need— it's obvious that he'd be balled up.

He didn't say his name, so that's the thing. James Johnson, 6'7". So you're saying we're gonna eliminate everybody under 6'7"?

Dan Levitar.

The Packers win or the Bears lose.

Jonathan Sasselow.

Shit, do you wanna know how that— what were the kids doing?

This is the Dan Levitar Show.

Pablo Torre is there. Uh, we are welcoming in Pablo Torre. An assortment of things to talk to Pablo Torre finds out about.

Pablo Torre finds out all the things. He's a Pulitzer Prize winner and Edward R.

Murrow winner and an assortment of other kinds of winners, but not a winner of an Emmy.

It's a weird thing.

You'd think if you can win competing against everybody in the world over something that you'd be able to beat the people at the Sports Emmy, but Nope, nope. Sports Emmy, harder to win than a Pulitzer.

Didn't have that before Pablo Torre started finding out.

First things first, the trust the process, Philadelphia Sixers, LeBron. What did you make of all of that?

What were the interesting parts of it to you?

I mean, there's a lot. Hi, hi, Dan. Thanks for that intro. There's a lot interesting, obviously, and I don't even want to go to the fact that the process sort of started with, you know, this whole thing that I wrote about. I'm going to skip that. I think in the present tense, it's just really interesting that LeBron James is saying to everybody, like, I'm transcending the idea of a franchise. Like, I don't think there's ever been a connection that's as meager between a player and the team he's joining than the Sixers and LeBron James. And so it's this reminder that whatever you thought he was going to get peer pressured really into, and whatever you thought his entertainment vehicle was going to be, He is reasserting in an interesting way, I think, the idea that he is bigger than any single team. And this whole thing in which he's going to live potentially in New York and commute to Philly, which JJ Redick, his former coach with the Lakers, did when he was a Sixer, um, that did not go great in Philly. But even the basic bandying about of like he might not even live in Philly is so funny to me because it immediately severs that you would say, like, easy PR win.

But no, he's not going to do that. And so in every regard, and you go down the list, right, in the ways in which this is shocking, it is LeBron James saying, I'm transacting in a way that no one has ever transacted before. And whatever you thought of, like, Kevin Durant as, like, the mercenary, just remember, that's, that's my legacy. And he is unapologetic about it, which raises lots of follow-up questions.

It's been a long time since the Sixers were really interesting in their franchise's history. You have Barkley, you have Allen Iverson, you have Moses Malone and Dr. J. Is this the most interesting Sixers team there's ever been?

Yeah, yeah. And that's with all due respect to lots of interesting, both in dysfunction and, and hype, uh, previous Sixers teams. Um, I don't know how you argue against it. Um, what LeBron is going to do, by the way, like as he load manages himself and Embiid load manages himself during the regular season is he's going to be the guy who is handling the ball. And so LeBron James in a postseason, uh, ball handling and solving the problems that the Sixers have, because that was their problem, um, who's going to run this offense as effectively a point fill-in-the-blank now and whatever, point center, point power forward, um, that combined with the fact that I think what you're seeing, uh, what you saw in New York The ability for a starved team to actually go out and galvanize human beings in a flesh and blood way out in the street, that's on the table for Philly, right? They are as— say whatever you want, and all you guys have said many things about Philly in the past, and I get them all. That is a city that is desperate in a way that provides upside. It is also desperate in a way that provides immediate and obvious downside.

And that's what's interesting is that there is a huge delta between between the best version of this and the worst, and I don't think there is as big a gap as in any other city that he considered.

How should Jaylen Brown feel about the last 8 weeks?

I think he has the ability to reset. He has the ability to respin whatever his position should have been in the first place. Um, Jaylen Brown, you know, not wanting to be the sidekick, uh, that being the story of him, he now can prove that actually he's here to do the opposite if he wants. I just think it's very interesting that this is all, of course, because of Celtics. That's the domino here. The domino was what Brad Stevens decided to not do. And so you get Jaylen Brown in this position that enables LeBron James to be enticed, it seems, on one level. But Jaylen Brown right now can go on Twitch and stream and be very excited about the idea that now he's on an actual contender and not make it about how smart he is or how much he wants to be, uh, 1A. Uh, and historically, what is extra interesting, of course, is that Jaylen Brown has not done that. And so you also have the incredible explosiveness of that personality here too. So opportunity that I don't think he's gonna take.

Do the rest of you imagine when this news breaks, Brad Stevens being Homer Simpson, uh, backing into the bushes being like, oh my God, what did I, what did I do?

What did I do here?

This really spun out of control for Boston after leading in that series.

Crazy turn of events.

But seriously, the news gets to him, gets to Brad Stevens. Do you think he just realizes, wait a minute, this happened because I sent Jaylen Brown there?

They did what now?

Do what now?

That is what has to have happened there, right?

Oh, Dan, I like to imagine Brad Stevens just like for the first time logging on to the internet and seeing what Twitch is and watching like 5 seconds of Jaylen Brown's stream and being like, we can't do this. And then, you know, 2 weeks later he wakes up and suddenly he's playing against LeBron James in the division, which is not ideal for Brad.

Yeah. Do I know—

can you guys look up for me, please, whether—

I just saw a headline. Charles Barkley says that if LeBron wins in Philly, then he is indeed the GOAT. And I want to know if he's quoted correctly because I'm suspicious of headlines today for a number of different reasons. And I just don't believe that you can do that. Do you think you can do that?

Do you think that if LeBron James wins a 4th title for a 4th team, something that no one has ever done, then all of a sudden we're going to change the ridiculous Michael Jordan conversation we've been having for two decades?

But he's changing the standard, right? I think that— look, if you're going to justify this narratively, you have to lean into the idea that LeBron is rejecting how you measure greatness historically. It's not about how many rings, it's how hard it is to do it at four different places. And so again, I haven't seen or heard what Barkley said there, um, so I await the fact check. But that would be the argument, is that who else can you plug in to any team and do this with. And so that would be the narrative case for why this is actually the end of the documentary, as opposed to this very strange twist or this sequel that no one really wants. You'd argue that it's because of that specific reason.

I want to move over to the WNBA and a conversation you and I were having briefly in New York. Uh, if I gave you a series of hypotheticals and made your life Caitlin Clark's life in basketball, most people who love sports would take that life and think it fun to make shots from the logo during the All-Star Game and be the biggest star in her sport.

Do you think Caitlin Clark is having any fun?

No, no. Um, I think the bar, the standard for what fun is now is, um, can other people who like you talk about you online without feeling like they are not making a grave error? Can you actually talk about Caitlin Clark in a way in public that even begins to express we enjoy her? And I think she has become so unbelievably targeted by the internet and all of its incentives that it just seems miserable. And it seems like she is afraid of that. And I would understand why. I mean, I have talked to— and I'm one of these people, by the way. I think she's so fun to watch. It seems like, of course, like, why would you have a problem with her being this celebrity? And then you go through how she has talked about on the internet, and it's the actual bot campaigns that use her in a way that makes whatever it is to be famous right now the worst version of it that's ever existed in human history. So no, seems pretty bad actually, despite all of the other crazy—

you realize all her dreams are coming true and she can enjoy all her dreams coming true because she's at the center of a gender war and a class war and a race war and political war. Political war. Let's play this.

There's like actual like bills being proposed, like we got to protect Caitlyn Clark, and it's just like, this is a bit much.

Let's, uh, let's play this video of her meeting, uh, Barack Obama and just wanting a photo, none of the other stuff.

Oh, hey Caitlyn, how are you? Really nice to meet you.

You're great.

You're fantastic.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Don't let Don't let all this nonsense get you down. I appreciate it. Yeah, you know, I always say one of the things that was luckiest for me was I didn't get famous till I was like 45. So I was an old-ass man. I mean, you're my daughter's age. They're not to have that much, you know, burden and nonsense. So don't lose that joy. The game's like the game. And you're a hooper.

I try sometimes.

No, you always hoop.

And you're on a nice little run right now. Yeah, we are.

We are.

Yeah.

You want to take a picture?

Yeah.

Come on.

She just wanted the picture.

She's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks for all that. Can I get a photo?

It's pretty awesome, though, that he said that to her right away. Don't let all the nonsense get to you. It's a really cool thing for him to say.

Yeah.

Too late. It's all gotten to her. Ruined everything. We've ruined everything.

It's hard to imagine, Pablo, that we've ruined all of it. You make shots from the logo, you're unprecedented, and people want you to be better and they want you to be different. They want you to be an activist. And they want you to be an assortment of other things that you may or may not be. It really is puzzling to me, Pablo, that your dreams would come true.

It's the gypsy curse, right?

May all your wishes and dreams come true because you don't know what they look like. And this strikes me as a curse.

This does not seem like it's fun except for when she's playing, and maybe not even then given that she's got 7 technicals and she's mad at everybody.

Well, I want to make this even more focused because is the on-the-court stuff in which players are mad at her and there is a racial dynamic, a flipping of the majority-minority sort of power hierarchy. That is complicated enough, but that's not new. Like, that is stuff that athletes in the past have dealt with. The thing that Barack Obama, former president of the United States, is expressing genuine empathy for is like the idea of, man, it's rough out there on social media for you. And I think that is so interesting because nowhere— I would say politics right behind, but like sports is the thing that's most saturated social media. And really what we're talking about more than anything is Twitter. And so there is this amplification and this funhouse, opposite funhouse, this nightmare house of horrors dynamic to you are being used by bots that people don't know are bots that get aggregated by accounts that people don't know are editorially manipulating whatever the actual meaning of the thing even is. And it's being circulated in a way that creates an impression that feeds on itself. And so you have people who just genuinely don't want to engage in a conversation about her.

Like reasonable people, I am one of them, just won't tweet about Caitlin Clark. Not because there isn't anything to say, it's just because it's like entering a briar patch and then getting mad at yourself for being stuck. Like, wouldn't you rather just not engage? And so So that is the experience. It's being deliberately gamed by people that the platform we choose to trust, that platform isn't doing anything about it. And so you just have to sit there and watch your life being discussed in ways that materially now in the real world affect it because perception becomes reality. And that is, yeah, when you ask like, we did it in that regard. Broadly speaking, we online did do this. I think it's an internet story.

Pablo, stay there. I want to play for you some Wolf Blitzer video, and I want to ask you about Mike Lombardi as well, who's gotten paid at North Carolina. Stay there and we'll come back with you.