Transcript of An NBA Scandal, the WembyCorn, a Three-Day Power Poll, and NFL Week 8 Picks With Joe House

The Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. We're also brought to you by the Ringer podcast Network, where I will have a new rewatchables for you at some point early next week. I think it's going to be Monday night, but we have to do a horror movie. We've done Halloween one, and we've done Halloween four, but we have not done Halloween two, especially now that I'm in the news studio with... Can you see the... Can you see the... There he is right there. See him? Michael Myers, my guy. We're going to do Halloween, too. So that's going to be the next rewatchables. Now, I just screwed up my camera. And you can find that wherever you get your... Wherever you get your Rewatchables, preferably on Spotify on video. So there you go. So I was going to do the top of the podcast and talk about Chargers, Vikings, and then the Warriors Nuggets game. And then the Chargers decided to kill the Vikings. I was going to watch the second half and then have some notes, but it was just the classic Thursday night stinker. And it all flipped in the beginning when Herbert seemed like he threw a pick six, and then they called it back because they said the ball moved on the ground, the chargers drove down, and then that was it.

So the chargers beating the Vikings. I guess we need to talk about that other than the fact that the Vikings do not look like a playoff team this year. Jj McCarthy, the mystery continues. So that and then Denver and the Warriors, we had the whole year to talk about that. So we're diving right into this so we can get the podcast up faster. Joe House is coming on. We're going to talk about the NBA gambling scandal. I think scandal is the right word here. I am going to do a very brief blink test NBA power poll for House, because I watched a ton of basketball over the last couple of days. And then last but not least, we're going to do Ringer 107 and try to find five games in a depleted schedule because we have six teams on a buy, but we found five that we liked. This is a very fun podcast. I'm just telling you now, we just recorded it. Then I went a time machine to the beginning of this for this intro you're about to watch. I'm going to take a break, Pearl Jam, and then House. This is the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel.

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Football is going on.

Football, basketball. The World Series is about to start. Did you pick a team to root for in the World Series, or are you just staying away?

I picked a bet. I picked a few bets. I bet the Dodgers to win four games to one, plus 380 on the FanDuel Sportsbook. I bet Shoheya Ohtani to win MVP at plus 165. It's every square bet.

That's so square. I love when you go square.

But Ohtani, MVP at plus odds, I got to have a taste of that, right?

All right, here's the agenda. We're going to talk about all the gambling stuff that happened this week. We're going to talk about an NBA power pole and me watching basically two straight days of games. And I have a lot of thoughts. And then we're going to do Ringer 107 NFL. So the gambling thing broke today. And it was a massive story. And I was debating about, do we want to do anything on the pot about it or wait until to see more facts and things like that? But this passed the test of so many people in my life asking me, Yo, what do you think? What is it? And I just feel like we have to do something about it. I just want to tell you the highlight, though. My mom texted me right in the middle as I'm getting a million texts. I hope you and Sal aren't involved in this NBA betting scheme, exclamation point.

I'm going to have a hard time.

I can't tell if she was serious or not.

I'm going to have a hard... I did have a lot of people in my life say, as a joke, are you one degree removed? Is this three degrees removed? How far removed? One degree of separation.

So here's the thing. And this is going to sound like I'm making a defense of the gambling universe, which, as you know, I love, you love. We've been in it for this entire century, basically. Basically. I think with the way the legalized gambling happened in all the states, it's going to be rocky here in a couple of different ways as we sort through this decade with what you can and can't do. The good side is that the best books, they can monitor all this shit. If anything nefarious is going on, they're going to sniff it out. And that's what's happened over and over again with all this stuff. They always sniff it out anytime there's a regular stuff. So in a weird way, it's being policed, I think, better than it's ever been. Where we have an issue, and this is what I thought happened, especially with the Damon Jones thing. That was the most interesting part of this whole thing to me. Damon Jones, who's obviously friends with LeBron James. He finds out LeBron's not playing in a Milwaukee Bucks game and, allegedly, tells somebody he knows, Hey, LeBron's not playing. Don't forget about me.

He's like, D Jones has to eat, whatever he said. And this is an issue I think the NBA and NFL specifically have, baseball too, obviously, where they can get intel that somebody's not playing or somebody's hurt, and they can get that intel ahead of time and quickly make smaller scale bets. But it's the players controlling information that's coming from them where they don't even know where it's going. They're just telling a buddy. They have no idea. I'm telling you, yeah, I might not record my pod tonight. This happened. You're like, oh, I'm going to tell F Dora Simmons. That's what's going on. And I don't know how they police this.

Well, they can't really police that specific situation that you're describing with the Damon Jones thing, what's being alleged on that particular fact pattern. Because, yes, there is already in place a series of injury reports over the course of a day, every single day, the NBA puts out what? On the hour Every 2 hours, an injury report. The very first one identifies guys and gives likelihood of playing.

And over the course of-Cap string, questionable, right?

Probable. And some of what's been allege in these indictments is like guys going from probable to out, right? Over the course of a day. But that at least is a form of communication that lets the market know, here are the possibilities for guys that are going to be possibly playing, possibly impaired, whatever the situation is. And for the most part, you can see it coming. It is the case now that the journalism around the NBA The NBA infosphere is sufficient. Like, oh, that guy did something, tweaked the calf last night. So he shows up on the injury report the next day. It might say start off as probable at the morning shoot around or whatever. And then over the course of the day, maybe the condition changes, it worsens. But you can, if you're trying to gamble on stuff, build that into what you anticipate.

Like the intuition. The warriors might rest curry. It's a back to back. You can infer certain things. I think the difference with this, though, what this opens up is all the people connected to a good player's life can take advantage of that if they want to. The equipment managers, the trainers, somebody who's like a security guard in the building who overhears Steph say, Yeah, I'm not playing tonight. And that's where it gets harder to police. But this is where I think the sports books, actually, they can know, especially with the unders and some of the bets that they can go. That's weird. Why are all these people betting on the Terry Rozier under? That's how that started. It was like this irregular betting pattern that they noticed.

Well, the window of opportunity for the non-public information is before the first injury report. So it has to be the case. I have not sat down and committed to full memory.

I have not either. I unfortunately was busy, too busy today to read the entire-Reading indictments and stuff.

But for both Damon Jones and what's being alleged about Chauncey, which is he told somebody in advance of a game that he was going to sit all the best players.

That one's different. So the Chauncey thing moves into Pete Rose territory. And And Chauncey, allegedly, is in both sides of this because this is two different things. It's an illegal poker scheme, which was crazy with X-rays in the tables and you're putting in tinted contact lenses to see marked cards. Shit, I didn't even... I've heard a lot of crazy illegal poker game stories. I didn't even know you could do this stuff.

That's what rich guys do to each other. You know what I mean? That's rich guy crime on crime.

You know who's never played an illegal poker game? This guy right here. I don't trust it.

Yeah, that's a good intuition.

But so Chauncey was in that, but then he also in this basketball side, allegedly. And I looked it up. It's interesting, the game they pointed out. It was the 2023 team. Dame was there, and they shut Dame down for the rest of the season because they were trying to tank for that Scoot-Henerson pick. And it was the first game he got shut down on. He had played the game before. And you can see the before, after with the box scores of, Oh, they still have some of their guys, too. We have none of our guys. And if it's It's true that he tipped somebody off that they were doing this in a way that he wanted that person to gain financially from it. That's about as dark as anything that's happened in the NBA since Donny, if that's true.

So the way that has to go down, though, is that the context surrounding the direction of the team. I mean, this requires time and energy that I promise I will not commit to the situation.

I did it today. It was right as they... And they were already... They'd lost some games. There we go. See? They'd won the night before. It was in the mix of the tank.

They're headed in the tank direction. So the market is already anticipating. So the advantage that he would have conferred is telling somebody absolutely without equivocation These guys are definitely not playing. And that news, doesn't he have an obligation in the injury report? All those names at the very first time the injury report appears should have had those names on it. And I'm not going back and looking at it, but we can- But you can put that game before it comes out.

You can put in the game in the bet before it comes out. That's the point. That Dame's getting show because the key with this is Dame was playing and he realizes, All right, we're cutting this. We're sitting Dame for the rest of the season, basically. I'm going to give this information to somebody if that's what he did.

Nonpublic information that presees the injury report. You can bet. You can bet when you wake up first thing in the morning.

So if this is true that he did that. And then he's also in this other legal poker side of it, too.

But that was a one-time thing, the way the indictment reads, he's like, he helped get some lures, some poor sucker to the poker game one time. But he's still in it.

If all this is true, we're not going to... This guy coached last night. I watched last night. He did. Him coaching.

He did do that. He was a coach on the floor. He coached.

Yes. And then they sprung this on- Pushed all his chips to the middle. I don't think it was unintentional that they sprung this in the worst possible time for the NBA.

Not unintentional.

Steven pointed that out on first take today, that this is... We're coming off this incredible WENBI game that is what we should have been leading the podcast with today, and they just cut the legs out of it in 10 hours.

Two incredible games, two incredible nights for the NBA. Welcome back. A beautiful night on NBC, followed up by an impeccable night on ESPN. Inside the NBA, it's firing on all cylinders. We have a legendary, a career-defining game out of Wemby. The next day, it's Cash Patel time, baby.

It's not even the next day. It was 10 hours later, I got Cash. Chauncey was on this list. And this is crazy. This guy's a Hall of Famer. I think one of the more respected players we've had this century. His name was Mr. Bigshot, and he ends up on this list. Some of the people involved, these are some of the nicknames house in this indictment list. Spanish Dennis G, Flappy, The Wrestler, Spook, Juice, Black Tony, Sugar, Albanian Bruce, John South, Doc, Black Rob, and Poogie.

We need to give out all those nicknames and apply them to Ringer people. We need to do a draft. I mean, I already know who Black Tony is. I know who Flappy is.

So do you think Black Tony? You think there was a white Tony? There were two Tonys, and they had to split up the Tonys?

Very possible. I had a lot of questions. Very possible.

Albanian Bruce couldn't just be Bruce. He had to be Albanian Bruce.

There was another Bruce. Weren't there two Bruce's? I feel like they were two Bruce's.

But the thing is this guy's Albanian Bruce's real name was Asman Hoty.

Fine.

So, yeah. There's a Doc. There has to be a Doc in all this. Somebody's got to be named Doc.

There was a Doc and a pooky. That's what really made it feel authentic.

So, yeah, the Chauncey thing bad. Rozier. So here's the other thing.

Chauncey thing bad, yes. What's being alleged is bad.

I'm just everything we said bad. Bad, his career will be over in the NBA. Rozier, the other really interesting piece of this, was cleared by the NBA. Now, the FBI saying And not only is he not cleared, here's some... And I did see some of that stuff in the indictment. They had real hardcore stuff with Rozier that was really bad. And the NBA cleared him, said they looked at his phone, and now this is he said, he said thing with did Rozier, what did he do? Now, Roger's career has gone into the absolute tank over the last two years, right really as all this started. And it was a guy that Miami traded for from Charlotte. It and gave up a first-round pick. And we thought it was going to be this impactful trade. And two years later, his career is definitely over. I'm sure Miami will figure out how to get him taken off the salary cap somehow and then replace him with much better player. They are.

That's going to happen. We're not going to be allowed to bet on that.

No, you can do that. Those are the big three. And I do think on the one hand, I don't feel like this is as big of a deal as it feels like. I think the Donahee thing was a much bigger deal. Way worse. It's like 10 times of a bigger deal. This is like, yeah, if gambling is going to be more and more prevalent, we're probably going to have a couple of bad apples and everybody's going to learn how to behave and deal with it and maybe don't share information about who's playing, not playing, and people you don't trust.

Maybe just don't share it at all. How about that? That's what the injury report is for.

Let me ask you, though, big picture, because I think the player-unders, especially in the NBA, are problematic. And if they made me the Tsar of sports gambling, which I think I might have a chance when you see some of Trump's cabinet, I can't be wrong about. If you made me the Tsar, I just want to know why we have player-unders. Why not just be able to bet overs or nothing, especially in basketball, and especially when it's not Steph Curry, when you're talking about Quentin Post over-unders and Al Horford, Under-3s. To me, that's a danger area we could just eliminate.

So I would just tweak it a tiny bit and just... I can't see. I can't come up with the word. Titan up. Titan up.

Constrict?

That's it. Thank you. Golly.

We're so old.

We need the coffee. Take the pool of eligible players. Just give out props on a handful of players. Just let it be the players that we know, that we have reasonable certainty are going to play. You can take the props down if the guy ends up not playing because it's load management, whatever. But let's just have... You don't need, really. Do we need Quintin post-props? Did we need Jontay order pops?

Honestly, I would do this for NFL, too. I would only have the bigger stars. Do we need Keisha Boody? Do we need it to be under three and a half for his catches? He's actually pretty good. I do like a Boody prop. Maybe he's a bad example. Yeah, man. Give me a booty prop. But maybe it's like Kyle Williams, the Patriots rookie, over and under one and a half catches. That's where I think it goes sideways. So I would say if I was in charge of this, I would steer the props toward big players only. Yeah, you can do that. There's some There's radical stuff you could do, like freeze the lines five hours before the games and stuff like that. But that's really unfair if somebody gets scratch late. The thing in baseball that happened allegedly with a couple of the Cleveland Indians pitchers Because being able to bet on pitches, I think is insane. I would probably get rid of that.

The first pitch, the first pitch, probably. Holy cow.

I do wonder if 10 years from now, we're either going to have more of this or less. I would prefer less, but I think it's going to shake out the the way it's going to shake out. I still feel like, look, there's way more gambling across the board than there used to be. You can see it everywhere. You can certainly see it on this podcast. And I think some of that stuff has to shake out. But we've always had the gambling stuff. I wonder, do you think all of these things still happen if gambling hadn't been more legalized across the States in the last 10 years? I would argue the illegal poker games, we've been hearing about those for 30 years.

As long as we've been sentient. I've been gambling on basketball since I was 17 years old. How did I do that? How was that possible? I knew a guy. There were lines. There were lines in the newspaper. There weren't lines online, but there was a line in the Boston Globe every day.

Right. And the NFL is their finding teams that lie in the injury report because they're putting these spreads out in the newspaper paper every day. So basically, we've always been doing this. I just feel like we're more honest about it. And in the process of being more honest about it, I think there's going to be a couple of hiccups that ultimately, if we can police all this and we can notice every time something's a little bit off, I think that's a plus, not a minus.

That's where we are. It's so much more regulated. The books can... All established books can detect the regularities very rapidly. I mean, even the Rozier game, didn't they shut that down? Didn't they close off?

Shut it down right away.

Yeah, right away. And immediately, the same thing with Jante Porter. Like, oh, there are bets here, and it doesn't even have to be very sizable increments, right? It's not like those dummies did attempt sizable increments because they're dummies. And we'll see these indictments reveal how you can get to scale, how you can get to $200,000 on an outcome without calling undue attention. You're spreading it out using proxies.

That's not online, usually. That's usually putting them on different casinos. That's how they do it. They have like 10 runners putting places.

Yes, exactly.

But you mentioned Jontay Porter. To me, that's the perfect example of why this is a little bit broken. Why are we allowed to bet on Jontay Porter-unders? I didn't even know he was in the NBA. When he was playing, what was it, on Toronto? He was like the 15th man. It would be like, I'm I'm trying to think of... And then when I watched in that Celtic Sixers game last night, the most obscure guy in that game, you're betting that- Barlow.

I had to look up Barlow.

Bitting Under's on Barlow block shots. That shouldn't be a bet.

Barlow got all the Embiid minutes in the fourth quarter, and he fucking deserved them. How about that?

I can't wait to talk about that. So, yeah, are there any other fixes you would do for...

You can just... The prop pool, tightening it a little bit. It makes sense to me.

Okay. Well, we're going to come back with Albanian Bruce, Black Robin, Puky. No, no. I want to do some PowerPulse stuff with you on NBA. And by the way, we'll keep talking about the gambling. I really want- There'll be a lot more information that comes to life, right? We don't have enough info yet. I wanted to talk about it, but I also feel like the story is going to evolve and move. To me, people are saying this is the biggest issue the NBA has right now. I completely I completely disagree. I really do. I think the biggest issue they have is the schedule. I still can't believe that Houston-OKC game I watched on Tuesday night and how hard those motherfuckers played. Incredible. They have to do that 81 more times plus playoffs. I'm on Thompson, who's probably one of the five best athletes in the league and is young and should be able to go all day, and he's about to kill over. They have to pull him out because he's getting cramps. And if you watch the game, how crazy he was playing back and forth, I'm much more concerned about how much speed, mileage, how much these guys run, the studies teams are doing about how much they run, how much sprinting they're doing during games.

It's not sustainable. It's not. I think that's That's the bigger issue for the league.

That's the concern I had watching that Wemby game last night. We only should get one of those every two weeks, maybe even only once a month, where he goes to that level with that level of intensity. They were up by double digits with seven minutes left in the fourth quarter, and he is still playing. I'm like, Get Wemby off the court. Get that man. Get that man to rest. He's done enough.

Right. And he only played 29 minutes, but they were hard 29 minutes.

Incredible 29.

So, yeah, listen, they have to figure out all the gambling stuff. My thing with the NBA is Sober is a smart dude. They had a lot of smart people looking at this, and I think they knew it was going going to be rocky for a couple of years, and there are going to be a couple of sacrificial lamps. And there are going to be, as Barkley said on Inside the NBA today, which I've really enjoyed on ESPN. They've not fucked with the show. I got to give them credit to that. It feels like the exact same show on a different channel. But Barkley, they were arguing about whether this is a gambling problem or whatever. And Barkley is like, these people are just stupid. He's right. This is a stupid problem. He is right. I agree with. So how do we regulate the stupid? It's going to be...

It's self-executing.

It's going to be a work in progress.

Well, it's self executing. I mean, if guys want to self-sabotage, there's plenty of attorney, whatever, ready to take them and put them in shackles.

Cash Patel. We'll take a quick break and then we'll do the powerpull. All right, coming back. Powerpull. I watched both games Tuesday. I watched six straight hours of hoops on Wednesday. I had the three TVs going, which you've seen, plus my iPad I had four going at once. I was just trying to soak in as much as I possibly could. House, we're getting old. I have to retrain myself how to watch four basketball games at once. I really was having struggled with it, but what was interesting was, and plus my daughter was playing yesterday, too, her team. So I had that. Then that ended. But the heart wants what the heart wants, and my eyes kept drifting towards Charlotte.

Oh, yeah.

It's just a delight. Just a delightful League Pass team. I really enjoyed I took a spin through lead pass.

I only had two. I can handle two at one time.

Yeah, I know.

Two screens at once. The Charlotte game, I did not land on that one. It was like, shit.

Did that happen in the big old card?

I don't need to I need to see Brooklyn. That really was the decision for me. I'm interested in Charlotte, but I don't need to see Brooklyn.

I want to rip through a quick power poll, just a little snapshot. There's some overreactions in here, but just after two days, and there's games going on right now. As we're talking, Indiana is playing OKC. Later tonight, Denver is playing Golden State. But favorite is still OKC. Contenders. So initially, I had Denver, Knicks, Cavs, Minnesota, in the Clippers as the contenders. I'm replacing the Clippers with Houston. That was the big ad for me after watching that game, which I talked about already on Tuesday. But the size and what we saw from Schengen and Ahmed Thompson, what the potential is of KD when they figured out how to use him. I think we did the over-unders with Zack, what, two weeks ago? Yes. And I went under, and I regret it because the ceiling of that team, I think, is a little higher than maybe I gave it credit for. What did you think?

I went under as well, but I know that's not what you're asking. But the reason is because they do still yet need some guard play. They do still yet need some perimeter scoring. Dylan Brooks, whatever the limitations are, that dude shot nearly 40 % from three for them last year. Jalen Green, whatever the limitations are, could create a shot under the right circumstances. They don't really... Ahmed Thompson could end up being that guy.

But man- There's a lot of one-on-one, though. It was a lot of clear-out, somebody beating somebody off the dribble or somebody posting up on a side. And not a lot of easy stuff.

Over the course of all the number of games that they have to play, that limitation will reveal itself to be a vulnerability. That's a badass basketball team. Let there be no doubt.

I think I forgot to mention this Tuesday night. I really liked how Jabbari looked. It was somebody I've always liked. I've kept on my stock. I thought he had some good moments for them on both ends.

I feel like it was the most confident version of Jabbari we've seen maybe in his entire career. He knew who he was supposed to be on the floor with that team, and he's like, I'm here for it. I thought he was very good.

Yeah. So they have to be in there because if Schengen and Thompson, I had them in the high 20s when we did Ringer 100. But if they're moving up toward the low 20s or maybe even the teens, combined with KD, combined with some of their depth, it might be enough to overcome all the other stuff. I went on Eddie and Termini's show yesterday Yesterday. Awesome. And we were talking about this Reid Sheppard thing, which you had the Brent Price joke that I give you credit for on Tuesday. He's not Mark Price, he's Brent Price. We'll see how it goes with Rich guy Reid. But Rich kid Reid, that was a friend of mine who saw him at Summer League said he was a rich kid in an AAU tournament, which I thought was funny. It's pretty good. But we were talking to Eddie Johnson. We were talking about the Matt Maloney season. Eddie was on that team. That Barkley, Drexler, Hakeem. They make, I think, Western Finals against Utah, and it came down to Stockton versus Matt Maloney. And Matt Maloney, who they'd like duct-taped as a starter and been able, and he could make a couple of threes, and he was okay.

He was an Ivy leaker. Kudos to him for making it in the league. But then it got to John Stockton time, and he got worked like a speed bag, and it cost them a playoff series. So the question for me with Houston is, are they going to leave that door open for a Matt Maloney situation and do what you've been saying for a month? Go trade for a fucking point guard.

Yeah, they have time. I think they'll get a guard. I do think they're going to do it.

I'm sure they're monitoring. I mean, Derek White was incredible yesterday. So if they want to godfather off for Derek White, if the Celtics are going to keep having exciting games and then losing with a minute left.

Wow, you just said that out loud.

I don't want to trade Derek White.

Why did you put him in this conversation?

Because I think if Houston got a real guard, I think they could actually win the title.

Derek White is better than a real guard. Derek White is fucking good. Yeah, that's what I mean.

That's not just a guard. They have all these ass in this war chest.

Yeah, Lord have mercy.

I'm not the first one who said that. That's Derek White's floater drum. All right. All right. So Denver, Nicks, Cavs, Minnesota, Houston. The only other thing I noticed last night, and especially down the stretch, see a little comeback win for the Timberwolves.

Beat Chauncey.

He sent Chauncey packing, literally. There was a little, don't forget about me in that game where it's all these teams, these new guys on the new teams. It's Wemby, Cooper Flag, the West, Minnesota. We talked about how they had, I think, the six best odds in the West, and people were discounting them in general. But there was a fuck you energy that he had in that game.

He needed it because they had to outscore the Trailblazers 30 to 19 in the fourth quarter to win the goddamn game. They were just cruising along. It was like, Dude, this is game one. Don't just show up and think that the Trailblazers is going to roll over. Jeremy Grant ain't here to just roll over for you. I mean, we had a classic Jeremy Grant game last night.

Black Tony's texting Chauncey at halftime. Chauncey is like, No, no.

Don't let me send pooky down there.

Denver is about to play. We haven't even seen them yet with their beautiful bench. I did see Mike Malone on the inside the NBA today, promoting the fact that they... I think it's Michael. But more in the fact that they... Michael Malone. It's promoting that they didn't have a bench when he coached the team. And then Cavs. I don't want to hear a Cavs conversation that Garland is back and healthy. Let's see him healthy and playing well for two weeks.

That feels fair. That feels fair.

So, okay, see, then Denver, Cavs, Minnesota, Houston. Next group, two teams, possible contenders, Orlando and Golden State. And we'll see Golden State tonight. I liked how Golden State took care of business in the Los Angeles game.

Me too.

How Kominga, they're basically the words Sean Marion had been thrown around for what Kerr wants from them this year. No, listen, just run the floor, defense, rebounding, athleticism. Just do that for us. As a concept, yes.

We figured the contract. It's a concept.

Just be Sean Marion for us.

We want to describe a concept, and we're going to use the word, the name Sean Marion to describe the concept. Not the player, Sean Marion.

Not the player. Just conceptually do a Sean Marion impersonation. Okay. The Horford thing, I love Big Al, one of the most popular Celtics of all time. I did hit Fuck You Mode, watching him in a Warriors uniform.

Why?

Well, he He left twice. He left Boston the first time he signed with Philly.

Yeah.

Came back. We won the title with him. And then he's like, now I'm going to go chase the title with Golden State. We already won a title, but for a little more money, he's made a lot.

Yeah, I wouldn't say he's chasing the title. He had a good place to go to get another contract.

What's wrong with that? We loved him in Boston. Well, Boston would give him a contract. Listen, I'm not saying it's rational. I just got spiteful watching. I was like, Fuck you. You?

So unlike you.

How How dare you're on Golden State. Yeah, it hurt my feelings. I didn't think it was going to hurt my feelings, but it did. He should have retired with the Celtics. He can still do that with the additional- As usual, there's no loyalty in sports. I don't know why I care.

He can still do that with the additional $25 million in his pocket or whatever it was.

But Golden State, possible contenders, but could see them moving up a notch. Sure. I like the vibe with them, and they very comfortably kick the Lakers out. They got everything they wanted.

It was really professional. It was very orderly. They were like, Okay, this is fine. Good job.

Pat them on the head. And then Orlando, who let Miami hang around for a while last night and then took care of business down the stretch. But news flash, Desmond Baines is good at basketball. He's a top 40 to 45 player, and they added him and gave up nothing. They just gave up future assets that weren't going to help them this year. So Orlando, maybe. If I'm an Orlando fan, I went slight under on them. Did you go under on them? Yes. It was like 50 and a half.

Yes. Yes. Just 49 wins is still fine.

I wonder, do Do you think 51, 52 wins could win the East if Cleveland continues to just have guys bouncing in and out and not ever being 100% healthy?

No, because the Knicks- You think it's higher? Well, one of my locks was the Knicks over 53 and a half, I think. Okay. Yeah. So what's the number?

What's the number for the winning record in the East?

57 or 58 to me.

Okay. Yeah. And I think the Knicks. But I want to watch them a little more carefully. See how... Sugs didn't play a ton of minutes in that first game. I think amongst A month from now.

We all bet over on Cleveland, by the way, me, you, and Zack. I think we were in agreement. I'm aware. And the number was 56 and a half, I think, for Cleveland, wasn't it?

I'm not worried. Okay.

Just saying. When they're all healthy, though. You ask me what number wins the East, I It's got to be north of 56 and a half. That's all I'm saying.

I hope so. I'm trying to figure out a path for Orlando to be a one seed, and I think the win number would have to be way lower. Next category, the sleeper, San Antonio. Look, this is what happens with the NBA. Everybody goes nuts when we're all watching something at the same time. People throw the word insane around because insane is the most used word in probably sports watching. It was insane. I would argue it was actually underrated how insane it was. I was in awe. To me, this was Tiger that first year in '97, just demolishing golf courses. And we're like, What's going on? Him doing that to Dallas, not just Davis, but you have Lively there, you have Flag, you have this good defensive identity. And he completely eviscerated them In a way that we talked about in the Over Under pod, I was all in on San Antonio being much better this year.

You did.

And I really thought he had a chance. I thought him at 12 to 1 to an MVP was probably the best value odds. And who Who knows if he can even play 65 games. But what he did in that game was one of the most frightening things I've seen on a basketball court. And I can't even think of that many other examples.

That's the problem with it. It is so rare now for us as sports fans to see an athlete that, I'll just put it in a dumb way, takes our breath away. That doesn't really even begin to tell the story. I can't believe my eyes are seeing something that I don't think I've seen before. That's 100 %. I can't compare him to anybody. For all of the years we've been watching basketball, I can't compare him to anybody.

No, It would be like if there was a seven-foot wide receiver who is basically like a seven-foot Randy Moss, and they were just throwing 50-yard passes to him, and he would just jump up and catch them. And we were like, What's going on? How is this a human being? Yeah.

The speed is incredible. I mean, what he did in terms of taking Anthony Davis out north of the circle, he starts shaking one way or the other. His crossover, he double crossovers. He hezies, and then he's at the rim in a stride, and he just flushes the fuck out of it. What? What did I just see?

In the three-point shooting, I loved. He was clearly realized he needs to be a little more around the rim.

Yes.

And news flash. We've been telling him that for two years, but I'm glad he figured it out. And then defensively, it's always fun to see the new guy flag I was like, This will be fine. I'll figure him out. And he had a couple of moments where he was like, Oh, my God. I didn't realize. Listen, we talked about this in the Overrunners pod. He just is moving better. He's more, I don't want to say more coordinated, but all the stuff he's done to work on his balance and his footwork, you really see a difference. That first year, he was falling over half the time. He's a child.

He's still growing. He's not grown. He's still growing. He's still filling out physically.

I was thinking there was one play he had. Maybe it was when he did that, threw his legs 19 times, hit a three and got fouled. Then cut to the Spurs bench, and multiple guys were like this with their hands behind their head. I I was thinking the Thomas Hill test. Yes. Love this. Love this. They cut to him after.

He's like, Oh, my God.

He's just like, I'm just in shock. I think that's the rarest level an athlete can get to. When you're Thomas Hill testing, your teammates or people on the bench, they're just like... And these guys are just playing basketball every day. They've seen every incarnation of everything.

They're playing with him. His teammates play with him, and they can't believe what they're seeing.

Right. We haven't had a basketball player do that.

I know. I was trying to think about- Curry?

Curry, when he was breaking through, starting to make the threes, was, I think, the last one that gave people that feeling. Yeah.

So the two that I was wondering about, and I'll go back and look because I am actually intrigued by this intellectual exercise. Young Shaq was mind-blowing.

Orlando Shaq. Yeah.

Young Orlando, when he was He was super skinny when he started. It was like, nobody can stop him. There's no way. The only way to... You have to foul him. And by fouling, I mean grab him by the arm and hold it because you can't- But also the way he ran the floor, you and I both separately saw him in those first two years, and we were just like, Oh, my God, what's that?

Is this guy going to be the best player in the history of the League? But I don't-Yeah, so Shaq's a good one.

I don't think we ever felt that way with Yannis. Yannis was always He jumps out at you, right? And because the physical specimen is incomparable, but it took a while for the basketball part to come in.

It was never 100% like it was with the Wemby thing. It was like, whoa, this is really cool. But that was when we had that unicorn era with Porzingas and some of these other like, whoa, these guys, we haven't seen people like this. Wemby is beyond a unicorn. I mean, nobody's ever done that on a basketball court before. I was watching with my son who for the last five, six years has been playing all the NBA 2K, all those games. And he had this player he created when he was a kid called JJ McCutchen. And the guy would have It might be a 99 in every category, but it was also seven feet tall. And I would always be like, Ben, this isn't somebody who would be a real player. I was like, yeah, but that's what makes them awesome. And we're watching. He's like, this is JJ McCutchen. This is the guy I created. But if the guy was actually a real person.

The kid says that. Here's what I'm going to ask. Can we talk to some old heads? I want to know what your dad thinks. How did he feel when he first saw Wilt? And did he get to see Wilt live ever?

I do think Wilt and Russell were both like this. There's unquestionably all the reports from back then, like Russell's defense and the way he ran the floor and could protect the rim, nobody had just ever seen it. And then Wilt came in with some of the... You can see some of it's on YouTube, some of his finger roll stuff and his power and his power on the rim.

It just didn't exist. Right.

Those are two good ones. Kareem had the skyhook that in person, you really had to It was just different in person. You just cut it. You were like, How is anyone ever going to block that? Magic and Bird had the passing, obviously. Jordan had the athleticism. Dominique as an in-game dunker. I thought had a little of- It's a nice nod. In person, but nothing like that.

No, no, no, no, no.

I will say LeBron in the late 2000s, his first two MVP seasons. I remember writing about this once. Because I remember writing a piece about how he had arrived in '09, but he had this play at a Clipper game where it felt like he just dunked two steps from midcourt. And the speed he had, it was so fast. You could just hear the arena buzzing after. It was so crazy athletic. Oh, my God. What was that?

Athletic Karl Malone. Hard to believe. That's the sheer size at that speed. So we just went through the top 12 players in the history of the game.

So there we go. Well, that was always the ceiling for him. I think what's interesting about this is, and we've talked about this in the past, but this always happens earlier than we think. Nobody thought Tiger was going to walk in and kill the masters.

You are right.

And crush everybody. You are correct. Nobody thought LeBron was going to make the finals in '07. Sometimes this just happens earlier than you... Nobody thought Duncan was going to win the title in his second year. Maybe some people did. I don't even remember. But it's always faster. Nobody thought OKC was going to be a contender, and all of a sudden they were. And I wonder with San Antonio, is this just going to happen fast now? Is this a supercharge where we should just start, if Wemby is going to be healthy all year, this is a top 17 period. And I don't know the answer.

It's fascinating because we didn't really get a feel for what the role players, what the team around him looks like, how they're going to compete night in, night out. All we got was what really feels like a once in a lifetime performance. In a one week span, we got Shohe O'Tani with one of the top three best baseball in the history of the sport. Fine, if you want to call it number one, I'm not going to argue with you. And then we got this game out of Wemby, a human specimen that is unlike any basketball player we've seen with the dominance that is unparalleled.

And we got an X-ray table illegal poker game scandal. I mean, what a week for all of us. On FanDuel, Spurs over under is now up to minus. It's at 45 and a half now. Yeah.

And I still think it's too low. Two full games or at least one full game.

It was 44 and a half, went down to 43. Now it's 45. Okay. But I just find it hard to believe that's not a contender. Here's the other thing with them house. I loved how Cornet looked with them.

Yeah.

They have trade stuff if they want it. Sure. If they want to go really try to upgrade somebody. They didn't have Deer and Fox in that game. I loved how Castle looked in that game.

I thought- What a fit.

I just felt like he went up a level, and clearly, I liked how he had a couple of good allupes to Wemby.

Symbiosis. They are on the same page, them two.

Unquestionably the sleeper this year. Next one, the Aspiration Gang, the Clippers. So move them down. They were so bad. I watched the first half of that Utah game. They were so bad that I don't even know what to make of it. Why did they do that? It has to be flagged.

Why did they show up that way? What do you think the explanation is?

One thing, we went over on them. We almost put them in our super boost.

Because we need them to get to 50 games, right? The total is 49 and a half. Can they get to- I know.

We didn't put them in the super boost, though.

No, no. I mean, because you can't trust. They did a good job of building out their bench. I mean, I think the thesis for expecting them in the 48 to 52 win range is a sound thesis, but shit can go wrong.

I do wonder about the personality, though. It's one game I want to watch them more, and I especially want to see them in person. But if Kuaia Kuaia, if Harden is in his own world, your guy Bradley Beal, who is the, Come on, guys. Let's fucking go guy on that team. Chris Paul's too old.

Isn't it Lopez? It should be Brook Lopez.

He's not doing that. They don't have the guy. It's my point. So you're down 20 in Utah and the team's like, Okay, Let me ask you this. I didn't like their body language at all.

You think that was Will Hardy's Super Bowl? He's like, I just want everybody in the basketball world to know.

To remember that I'm good at.

I just want you to see what I could do. Here's what? It's game one. The season's going to go the way. I have some good players. Here's the stuff we're going to do. I could do this. I could take these Utah white boys and get out here and run a basketball team this way. We're probably not going I can do it all season long, but I just want you to see it.

Well, I'll tell you this, Kessler jumped out of the TV. He was fucking awesome in that game. Remember in the Knicks were like, We're trying to get Kessler. It's like, Cool. Kessler is good. We're not just giving him to you. He looked great, It's going to be... I guess their guards will be the key to them tanking, Utah. Yes. But when you have Kessler and Márkinen, you're just going to hang around in some of these games. One of the lessons of watching all the games last Last night, the talent is so fucking deep. It's outrageous. I just can't believe how many good players there are. Even Charlotte, my beloved League Pass Charlotte team. Colin Sexton is just on the side, just coming in. That guy in the mid 2000s would have started on playoff teams.

This is a nice observation you're making because I wanted to give out a handful of fuck you's. Hey, Atlanta Hawks, fuck you. Here's the thing, It's game one. It's time to show up. It's time to show out a little bit. La Clippers, here's a nice fuck you for you. Here it is. I put it on a platter. I mean, the teams that showed up like, Oh, you're just going to roll through. I was impressed. The heat. No, fuck you for the heat. Good job, Pete. Heated, right? No hero. Norm Powell was up for it.

How about Davian Mitchell? Davian Mitchell. We It seemed like that had flash in the pan possibilities. The charges just scored. It's 21 to three. This might just be the podcast tonight. Good.

I do have a nice, Fuck you for the pistons as well. I just want to get one out for the pistons.

Well, I I'm going to get to them in a second. So the Aspiration Gang, the Clippers. By the way, I googled Aspiration to see if there's a logo because I was going to do a joke and send it to you. Okay. And when you google Aspiration, the first thing that comes up is how it's people that choke on their own vomit. What?

Oh, Aspiration. Yes, the physical phenomena. Yes, right. I guess I'm surprised that that comes up first though.

They made the charity after choking on your own vomit? What? Why was that the charity? No wonder it went under.

That's such a great joke.

It's a vomit-choking charity.

How do we miss this? How do we miss this joke?

I don't know. It took me forever.

We've been going on for two months now. We missed this joke. It's amazing.

Balmer choked on his own Vomit, $50 million.

Uncle Dennis didn't joke. Uncle Dennis got all that cash.

Next category. Now we're dropping off. This category is called Let's See In March. I got Dallas here and I got Milwaukee here for different reasons. Dallas. I want to go on the record really emphatically. This flag playing point guard thing is fucking stupid. It's stupid. Stop, Jason Kidd. We know you got your extension. We know you lucked out with the lottery. We know you did this with Giannis in Milwaukee. But this is not the right way to bring in a kid who's not even 19 and who doesn't know what basketball player he is yet, but he clearly is special. You're putting all this extra stuff on him that I think is ridiculous I don't understand. As soon as Kyrie comes back, he's never playing point guard again. What is the point of this?

Who's supposed to play point guard for them?

Play D'Angelo Russell and Nemhardt. Who cares? It's October.

Okay.

What I don't want to do is have Flag dribbling the ball up against Castle and people like that. That's crazy.

You mean guys will just go take the ball from him?

Yeah, he's not a point guard. He's 6, 8, and a half. He's played forward his whole life. I hated it. Anthony Davis.

Yes.

Moving into a different phase of his career. Watch.

Well, it's game one.

I'm not on it yet. That's what I'm saying. I love Game One. But I just...

I didn't love the bot. Here's the thing, right? Let's see them play.

He's been in the league since 2012, and he's a big guy, and big guys don't usually age well.

We want to see them play a team that doesn't have... I mean, we have to come up with some way to describe Wemiana. That's not unicorn. It's so superior to unicorn. The most superior iteration of the unique being.

He's just Wemby. How about just Wemby? Yes. He's a Wembicorn.

He's a Wembicorn. Sure. Good. Let's see Dallas when they're not playing the Wemby corn because them not having an answer for that, maybe we can show them some grace.

Who do they play tomorrow? They play... Oh, Home Against Your Wizards. That's a great...

Great. That'll clear out all I have all the bad taste in our mouth. Perfect.

Yes. That sounds awesome. So anyway, I still think I like their players and their team. I'm still bullish on them. Milwaukee is the other one. Giannis looked like Giannis again. Porter got hurt during the game, but They beat a bad team. But I'm still bullish on Milwaukee as being a mid-time '40s team. Here's the thing.

They are dedicated to... If they are dedicated to the bit, they came out and shot the 3D ball. Excellent. And if that's- That's what they want to do. Right. Because they were the best percentage-wise, three-point shooting team in the league, but they were underutilizing it volume-wise. Well, five of their first eight made baskets were threes. They won the basketball ball game in the first six minutes. Now, this might be a common theme when you play the Wizards, but they got up by 20. They were on pace. They were on pace for 200 points in that game. They had 25 points in the first six minutes because they just were... The ball moved beautifully. Those guys knew exactly where they were going to be. Ajay Green was excellent.

They have space. Yeah, they have space because of the shooters. They took care of Ajay Green.

And they dared Washington to rotate defensively, and it didn't happen. They just knocked down threes.

I like the concept, theoretically, of Giannis and shooting.

Me, too.

Then Turner with Giannis defensively, I think, is going to matter. It makes sense. I still am in on that team.

It all makes sense.

Next group, flawed but interesting. I have five here: Lakers, Detroit, Toronto, Philly, and Atlanta. I was down on Detroit before the season. It was one of my underlocks. I think if I was a Detroit fan, what would disturb me is I'm playing Chicago, a team that's not going to make the playoffs. And if you knew nothing and you were just watching the game, you would think they were equal talent-wise. That's not a good time for Detroit.

My problem was the effort. They have guys with the motor. That's what Ron Holland is for. That's what Durin is for. The role guys are supposed to help the starters. Are they discombobulated because Ivy is out again? What's the explanation?

Ivy I just don't think with Ivy out, I just don't think from a talent standpoint, they're that special unless Kade goes up another level. So I just... The flaw had been interesting. I'm not rolling them out, rolling them in. But my instinct was that people were throwing them in this East fringe contender conversation. I'm the opposite. I think they're closer to being a playing team.

They had to outscore the Bulls by 11 in the fourth quarter to make it competitive on the stretch.

Lakers, I did not have as one of my playoff teams.

And I had them losing in the plan. You gave them out as a play-in. You gave them out as a play-in.

Having them in the plan and had them losing in the plan. And the reason is because I don't think they're going to be able to guard anybody. And then you watched an opening night. Golden State should have won that game by 25. Sure.

Could have. Multiple times, multiple ways, they could have won that game by 25.

And I know they didn't have LeBron, but LeBron is now in his 40s, and I don't think you can count on him in a real way for a regular season like you could have in even 2018.

The Lakers aren't good enough. They don't have enough talent.

That's all. I'm not necessarily even not positive they care about this season. I think it's more of a- Good point. Just take some chances. We have some expirings. Let's see where we go. They extended JJ before the year, which I said I see you and Zack two weeks ago, I thought was interesting. It made it seem like, hey, no matter what happens, we believe in this infrastructure. I think they're one of the six or seven worst defensive themes in the league.

How would you handicap the likelihood that sometime here in the next, I don't know, 30 days, maybe even less, that we get word that this is going to be LeBron's retirement tour?

Are you asking me because you want to tell Damon Jones of Black Tony?

Well, Damon Jones already knows. I need Damon Jones to tell me and Pukie. Me and Pukie, you need to know.

I do not think LeBron is retiring. I think he's going to play until he's 45. I think LeBron and Rodgers are just going to keep going and going. Lakers, very suspicious. I just don't think when you compare them to some of these teams in the West, like Houston and San Antonio, like Minnesota, these teams are young.

It's scary. Go guy by guy, position by position. They're not good enough.

They're not good enough. We'll see. I've counted out the Lakers before in previous years, and then all of a sudden, they went eight in a row. Luca would have to go on a fucking heater.

Remember, again, Dorian Fannie Smith really helped change the trajectory of that team because They really found a defensive identity. It's crazy shit like that that can happen.

Toronto looked great. Toronto looked great. That might have been one of my big misses.

It was a Joe house lock. I don't remember whether or not Zack locked it.

They looked really good. Listen, I'll admit to feed if that is a potential top seven team.

I believe that it is.

I thought they played hard.

Yes.

They were long. They're healthy right now. Who longs. Who knows how long that's going to last. But they jumped out to me.

Coach Darko played 11 guys. If they're going to play with that level of intensity and make sure that everybody gets the feels, gets the touches, they're going to be tough.

You made fun of me when I said to you- You know what I liked? Well, I did make fun of you.

I did. The Oklahoma City, they want to try that blueprint, which is get out in transition, try and force turnovers, try and be a defensive presence. And they won fast break points by 20, and they had 86 points in the paint. In 138 points they scored, 86 of them were points in the paint because they kept going to the goddamn rim. Impressive. That's all. I'll stop.

This was my overreaction game because Toronto kills Atlanta. In Toronto, I'm with you. What I liked about what I saw from Toronto, they clearly know what they want to be. And what they wanted to be was athletic, and they want to push, and they want to go, and they want to go, and they want to go. Now, I don't know if it was just because they were playing Atlanta or that's who they are, but there was an identity they had that I wasn't expecting. On the flip side, Atlanta, who was a team we were high on, and then the over-under got too high, and I think that scared all of us. It got to 47. 5. So this is one of those things where you can look at something on paper forever, and then you have to actually see it on a basketball court. And I don't know, maybe I've seen too many games over the years, but I was immediately like, oh, no, because they're not going to be able to rebound house. And forget about the transition defense and some of the other issues in that game. But you have Porzingas. They started Porzingas.

He's 25 feet from the basket. You got Trey Young, you have Jalen Johnson, Daniel, some other shooter. There's no rebounder. And one of the things with Porzingas, when the Celtics would play him, Tateam was one of the best 20 rebounders in the league. The team was a gang rebounding team. I really was worried about Atlanta after watching them. And maybe it's going to take a while for the pieces to fit together, but it was a team that didn't make sense to me as I watched it. Did you see it?

It did not make sense, and there are a couple of culprits. The rebounding is concerning. It could be Okongwu. That's his job. Jalen Johnson got seven, and poor Zeng has got seven.

They got dealt with on the boards, though. Here's the issue, man.

Let me ask you. I'll put it to you in the form of a question. Who do you think took the most field goals last night? The Would you already know the answer?

I don't. Who was it?

Nikhil Alexander-Waaker took 15 fucking field goal attempts last night. He was two for 15 from the field. What in the fuck is going on in Atlanta? Seriously, You built this team and had an idea for who you're going to put out there. How is he taking the most shots on the team? How is that possible? In 28 minutes, he took I don't go with Thembs. How? Why? How does that make any sense?

I don't like it. I'm not writing them off, but my blink test watching them was like, I don't know. I don't I don't know if these guys all make sense together. We'll see. But I definitely cool it on them a tiny bit. But they can win me back in the next week. And then Philly, I watched that entire game.

I bet you did.

It's really interesting because Embi just looks like he's done. And who knows if he can come back, but he can't really jump anymore. Every time they really did well was when he wasn't out there, including the fourth quarter. They just didn't bring him back because he was on a It's limit. But the Maxi and VJ together was just the most electric. The VJ thing's unbelievable. The big thing on him coming out of the draft was this guy's an incredible athlete. He can't finish. He has terrible finishing stats. Let me tell you, he finished the fuck out of the Celtic game. He was finishing everything and he was competitive and he's got a swagger to him and him and Max are together. That's the future of that team. The Sixers fans should be over the moon about this. The Embiid thing, the extension, disaster. George, disaster. But all of it led to them getting the third pick in the draft and getting rejuvenated with this guy who looks like 2005 Dwyane Wade.

I mean, it's stunning. It's stunning. Let's just leave it at that.

Other than Wemby, it was the most stunning thing of the week.

The confidence. He's heat, game speed. He was there for all of it. The basketball IQ is off the effing charts.

He moves when he doesn't have the ball, if he's in the corner. He's my favorite guy where he's still thinking of stuff to do, even if he's not involved in the play. It's like, Oh, can I back cut? Oh, can I get an offensive rebound? Oh, can I come flying in for a jam? He's up to stuff All the time.

How many phone calls do you think Darryl in the second half was making? Like, Hey, we know that Paul George contract. We know that we need the extra year, but let's figure out a way. How many- Oh, I thought you were saying Darryl was calling his wife being like, I have good news.

I'm going to be keeping my job for the next few years because VJH comes fucking awesome.

Well, and also they need to get Paul George off that team, away from this team as quickly as possible. I don't know how they're going to do that. It's a zero proposition, zero sum.

Also, we talked about Leap guys when we did the over-unders. And I think I'd like to belatedly include Maxi in that combo.

He deserves it. Oh, does he deserve it?

He was downhill constantly. I thought the Celtics, they didn't shoot well, but they played really hard. And the reason they lost was because they weren't making threes. And then, ironically, Kata fouled out, and Luca Garza was in concussion protocol, so they had to play Xavier Thomen in the last two minutes of the game, and he missed a big shot. But the The VJ and maxi thing, attack, attack, attack, attack. And Embiid just doesn't fit in with it. So I don't know what they do.

Just play him the 20 minutes. It's totally fine. He's a role player.

He's going to be miserable. Come in. He'll make it.

Who cares? No. If they permit that to happen, then we'll know for sure. Then we'll be having podcast with Darryl.

How about LeBron for Embiid right now?

Who's Oh, you paused. Well, the Lakers have to say no, no, no. Yeah, I think that's it. He's a 20-minute player who should be able to get you a handful of rebounds.

I like Embiid. I hope it comes back, but it doesn't seem like his right leg works anymore.

I don't say this with any joy. This is end of career Greg Oden shit. This is what Greg Oden looked like after the last series of surgeries that he had, and he tried one last time to come back. That's what Embiid looks like to me.

I hope he can come back. It'd be good. It did not look good last time.

It's better for the league?

It's bad for Philly that it's like we have to keep him out of the game if we want to win. Water Treaders, Boston, Memphis, Miami, and Indiana. We don't even talk about them. League Pass All-Stars, next category.

People in Memphis are going to be mad that we're just skipping over them.

They had 40 injuries already, and they won the first game just because John Morant was awesome. The guy plays 30 to 45 games a year.

They handle their business at home against New Orleans. And New Orleans didn't jump out to a lead.

But look at the group, though. Boston, Memphis, Miami, Indiana. They're treading water, waiting to see who they're going to be. They're in the same spot. I think that Memphis is fair. League Pass All-Stars, Charlotte, New Orleans, and Chicago. New Orleans, I think Zion looked really good. And they have fun players in that team, and I just think they're going to be a fun team to watch. Chicago, same thing because of the pace. And then Charlotte was a revelation. I like Coughbrenner. I'm just going on the record. Sure. I think he's a real NBA player. I agree with you. I think he's a 30-minute-a-game big guy. I agree.

I made fun of it.

We went into the season going like, Charlotte doesn't have big guys. They're not going to be, but they have multiple guards.

It wasn't against Brooklyn, to be fair, but yes.

Well, they were playing a G League team.

Yes, they were.

But they have semi-competent big guys and then Knippel, and I just like them. Next category, wait, where's our coach? That's Portland. The next category is, why are we here? Phoenix and Sacramento. What a battle that was.

Don't show disrespect Back to Phoenix. This is going to be an ongoing theme. I honestly like directionally what Phoenix... This is at least a team that makes a little bit of sense.

More sense than last year.

It makes more sense than Last year, and I honestly think the good people of Phoenix deserve after that hot turd they were served for an entire season last year of unmet expectations and guys that didn't like playing with each other. I think this team does like playing. I I like what I'm seeing out of them thus far. One game in. I'll just leave it at that.

Well, I have them as either the fourth or fifth worst basketball team in the league. That's fine. And the other team that they're battling with was Sacramento, who that game came down at the last minute. It did. Last category is Dumping Darren, Utah, Washington, and Brooklyn. Utah is the best of the three. Darren is the... Darren Peterson on Kansas.

What do you think if Utah really tried, how many games do you think they could win? If they had competed-High 20s. Okay, I was going to say low 30s. So I'm glad we're on the same All right.

That segment was way longer than I expected. We're going to take a break and then do Ringer 107.

It's just the NBA. What do you want us to do?

All right, house. Ringer 107. We went three and two last week. Felt like four and one was in play, and we couldn't pull it off. We were one game under 500, but we've been slowly clawing back. It's a bye week week this week. These are the dangerous weeks when you can't find five games, but you still have to do the five games. I'd like to request that we stay away from Eagles Giants and Chiefs Washington with higher lines. I just I want no part of that equals Giants game. I want no part of the Chiefs, favored by nine and a half against your team, Mariota.

Is it only nine and a half?

Is it higher than that?

I thought it was much higher.

Maybe it's higher. Regardless, We're staying away. Okay. I have three maybes for you. Jets, bangles. Jets are getting six and a half in Cincinnati. I don't want to bet this game. I really don't. Jets, 27th, DBOA, Cincinnati, 29. But the line is so high. It's like trying to sucker you in betting the Jets.

It's begging you to take the Jets.

The bangles should just be favored by three. We'll give you three and a half extra points to take the Jets.

You're supposed to take the Jets. You're supposed to do it.

It's like that criterion collection had this 50% off flash sale. I have all the Blu-rays I want. I was like, all right, I'll look anyway. It's like this is a flash sale of three and a half extra points.

It's Tyrod, too, right?

We I think. Staying away. I'm not betting on the Jets. We bet on the Jets in the week, too.

It just sucks. It does suck.

Falcons Dolphins. Falcons minus seven and a half. I have this as a maybe, only because You have the Atlanta offense, fourth against the run. Miami's defense, 32nd against the run. They didn't fire Mike McDaniel last week. Atlanta's defense is first against the pass, seventh yard per play. Miami's offense, pretty much terrible across the board. Coming off one of the worst games we've seen anyone play in the last couple of years. Falcons minus seven and a half. The hook scares me a little.

Not me. Got to play Falcons. This is Falcons at home. The only thing I wondered about was Pennex So you want me to move this up? Somebody rolled up on him. There was an ankle thing, and he didn't practice. They had their walk through on Wednesday. He did do limited practice taping this on Thursday.

Well, the good thing is they have a $40 million backup.

Well, here's the thing I was wondering about. Now, we're going to play it at seven and a half. We can't get out of that spot.

So this is going to be your pick?

I'm definitely. I mean, as long as the Miami Dolphins put Tua out on the football field as their starting quarterback and their head coach is Mike McDaniel. You must bet the other side of it. I don't even know what the number is that would scare me off. It ain't this. It's not seven and a half in Atlanta. We think Atlanta is good when they play at home. We think their defense is good.

This is something we've been on for the last couple of weeks. Teams you're only allowed to bet on at home because there's another one coming up. I like Atlanta as a home team.

Me too. Yeah, I think they roll. I think they smash. I hope Miami continues to just bring Tua and Mike McDaniel out week after week so we can keep He's letting the other side.

I can't believe Mike McDane has come back. All right, I moved that into the maybe into the YES category. Last one in the maybes was Saints Bucks. Saints plus four and a half at home against Tampa. I like the Saints at Home a little more than anywhere else. Me, too.

Me, too. Learned my lesson last week.

New Orleans. Well, last week we fucked that up. That was your pick, but I supported it. And a lot of the reasons we took Miami, went against Miami and Cleveland, bad weather, blah, blah, blah. And then New Orleans is playing outdoors in bad weather, and we have New Orleans. Yeah, wrong. And yet, Chicago still was dying to let them hang around in that game.

It was literally the freaking hook and ladder that the guy threw a forward pass on. It was about to be a game, potential game altering. The trajectory of that game was in doubt. Rattler put the ball, gave the ball away too many times. I don't want to talk about it.

So New Orleans at home, lost, came back against Arizona and San Francisco and almost won but lost. They beat the Giants at home and they lost to the Pats at home in a game that the refs tried to steal from the Pats. They're only averaging 18 a game. I don't know who's playing for the Bucks. My instinct leans toward the Saints, but I don't really want to have them again. I didn't enjoy it last week. Me either. I don't know how long is Rattler going to be the starter. Are they going to start tanking soon? There's a tanking strategy for them, so let's stay away. All right.

We dabbled with the Saints. That's enough.

It's like- There's a parlay possibility house. We have the Colts minus 14 advocates of Titans. We can use their money line or some version of it because They're going to kill the Titans.

Could also just lay the points.

Could also lay the points. Patriots against the Browns. Pats minus seven. Cleveland's offense is just horrible. 28th rush, 30th pass, 27 first downs. I know their defense is good, but I do think the Pats defense, this is a perfect game for them because they're really good at stopping the run. You could throw in them a little bit, but Cleveland has Dylan Gabriel. This This New England fan base is so fired up by this Patriots team. They haven't had a kick-ass home game yet. They had the Carolina game. It was in doubt for an hour, and then they came back and won. But I think this could be the kick-ass game. Once you go up 13, the game's over.

I totally agree with this. The only modest proposal I would like to make as we think about the idea of a money line parlay here is, I honestly would rather, because we don't have a lot of choices on on the card this week. Use the Colts. Let the Colts lay the points with the Colts and use the Chiefs. Parlay the Chiefs and the Patriots.

We might have enough, though, because the other one I was going to throw him was the Ravens against the bears at home.

That one, you know where I'm coming from on this.

Ravens.

Not only that, can I borrow some money from somebody?

Yeah, this is the first playoff game of the year with the Ravens. This is kitchen sink. We have to win. We We have Caleb. I made this prediction on Tuesday's pod. We did one crazy prediction, me and the fantasy guys, that Tyson Bajit as the starter for the bears by week 13. Caleb was not good in that New Orleans game. Wow.

He was not.

But parlay of Ravens, patriots, and colts minus 1. 5 gets us under the minus 1. 20. Pats to win, Ravens to win. Colts win by 2. It's minus 117 on FanDuel. And we can do that and win.

What are the remainder games? What other games are we playing?

I just put in that in. Okay. I mean, I'm just. That's a possibility. That might be one of my picks. All right, here are the possibles. Texans minus one and a half against the 49ers. Houston's two and four. Four of those games were on the road. Their next three are at home. Their eighth in DBOA somehow. Their defense is sick. Their defense is awesome. Coming off this ugly Seattle game where they couldn't block. But guess what? Seattle has an awesome defense, and they were home, and it was a Monday night, and they were maniacs the whole game. I'm in on Houston's defense. I thought that... Talk about hats on the ball house. It was one of those eight guys tackling every Seattle guy. They even got a penalty because they had too many guys continuing to tackle somebody. Their defense, third in DBOA, it's only given up 14. 7 points a game. They're going against Mac Jones. They're going against the San Francisco team that was able to scotch tape a defense last week and a bunch of shit that now you can just watch the tape and be like, Oh, they're doing this.

Let's do this instead. They're going to have no pass rush. I don't care if Nico Collins plays or not. I think Stroud with actual time to throw will be okay. And it's Texans minus one and a half. I love the Texans in this spot.

So I just was scared of this game because I have been on the wrong side of Shannon and the 49ers too many times this season. I get it.

They just We keep saying- Here's the thing. They're five and two house.

We just keep saying, here's the point where it flips for them defensively. Here, Bosa, they can't get any pressure on- But we had them last week.

We took them Sunday night.

And it was the correct play. I know, but I'm just saying...

I just want to bet the Houston defense in this game. Houston defense against Mac Jones.

For the contest, we have it at one and a half.

Yeah.

It's your pick. I'm lukewarm on it.

You're lukewarm? Yeah. Okay. I like it. I don't think Houston's going two and five. If they lose this game, their season's over. This is a kitchen I'm thinking for them.

I want to see one great quarter of offense when it's not against the Titans.

Counter. This is a classic. Niners look probably better than they are on Sunday night. Okay. Houston looked worse than they are. They're in a bad situation for the team they have on a Monday night. Okay. And this line should probably be two and a half or higher because of their defense.

It's two and a half now. For the purposes of our contest. We got it at one and a half. It's published at one and a half. We're playing it one and a half. The public is going to have to ride the market.

I want to make sure. So it's definitely... I want to make sure we don't cheat.

No, it's two and a half right now, but I believe for- It's one and a half. Yeah, we have it at one and a half. I know. It's locked at one and a half for the of the contest.

Next one. I want you to talk me out of this because I like it. Panthers plus seven and a half at home against Buffalo. We talked about Carolina at home, how they're a different team. Dalton, Bryce Young, I don't think it matters. Carolina's third rushing attack this year. Third in rush yards. Buffalo 31st against the run. They are getting their two suspended D linemen back. Carolina's D is not terrible. 15th DBOA, eighth against the rush. It is betting against Josh Allen. Josh Allen against bad teams has been money. But the seven and a half, even that's a cheap shutdown late.

We can't do it. You're talking me out of it? I'll take the L. Here's why. The Bills lost two games in a row and then had to buy.

And they have Josh Allen.

They're going to come off the buy with Josh Allen and lose another game. They're going to lose to the Patriots.

This line should be four and a half.

They're going to lose to the Patriots, the Falcons, and the Panthers. We're talking about the fact that the line still has some inflation in it. We're not giving Carolina enough credit. No question. I agree with all of that. Seven and a half, though. It's still in this modern NFL era, a one-score game at seven and a half. I don't know.

I might make it one of my picks. I also don't mind the plus 310 for them. Oh, for the Panthers to win out. For the actual money line, which we're not doing in these contests. But the case for Buffalo is a couple of losses by week, getting the guys back on D.

Yes.

We're going to show everybody our defense is actually back. And that's what my fear is with this is you're like, oh, my God, why do we bet against Josh Ham? The seven and a half is high.

They can get rolling, though. That's the problem. We thought that that might happen in that Atlanta game, but Atlanta really had a great pass rush at home and a very good plan. And they just ran the ball, ran the ball, ran the ball. Ken, Carolina- So they have-replicate that.

Here's the other case for this. They had the Chiefs next week, Buffalo. So is this a Milton Burrell? Get in, get out. Let's just pull out enough to win. Get in, get out. Let's not do too much. It's not get anyone hurt. They got chiefs.

Backdoors open. They could be up 14 in the fourth quarter.

That's why the seven and a half is huge. Yeah. All right, mark it down. Cowboys plus three and a half at Denver. All the advanced stats say Dallas is a better team. They're ninth in DVOA, Denver is 14th. Dallas is offense, top four, second in yards per play. Denver's defense, first in yards per play, which is good. But the question for me is the Cowboys, I just think are going to score every week against whoever. Can Denver match points with them? I think this line is just too high. They get in the hook. I feel like this should be like Bronco is one and a half. I think these teams might be even. I've been really impressed by Dallas. I think they're good.

As have I.

I think they're well coached.

I said out loud on many programs last week that I didn't think that Washington... I had to puff my chest out because it was Dallas week, but it was fraught. That was a fraught situation.

That was our big miss last week, not taking Dallas. That was a big miss. By Sunday, that would have been...

That was a big miss.

That was the one that I bet on.

And I loved it. I bet it as well.

Sorry, Washington. If Dallas can somehow win this Denver, Cardinals next week, bye week, and then they're at Vegas on Monday Night Football, there's actually a path for them to be a playoff team, but I think they need this game.

Why did they get blown out by the bears?

Ceed Lamb got hurt. Okay.

And then-Couple of coverage breakdowns. They just couldn't adjust on the fly quickly enough.

They just couldn't. Why did the Patriots lose to the Raiders?

First game of the season, that's all.

Yeah. I'm not sure what the first three weeks of the year, did we just Green Bay killed the trade. Would that happen now?

No.

I don't know.

I don't think so.

All right. Cowboys plus three and a half. We're marking this down. The Bo Nicks thing, he just can't... It takes him two hours to be decent.

You're not going to... I don't know the circumstance. There will be a circumstance where I'm comfortable. They're laying less than a goal, maybe. I'm not sure who the opponent has to be. No Look, I asked him to shove it in my face against the Eagles, and he did it. He led them to 18 points in the fourth quarter against the Eagles on the road in Philly.

And Dak against a really good Denver defense, which I think he can throw on. But Dak has been one of the best four players in the league this year.

He can throw on anybody.

Caboys plus three and a half. We'll mark that down. Packers-stealers. Packers favored by three in Pittsburgh. And normally you would say Oh, Pittsburgh, Tomlin, home. It's a smash spot. Can I make a packer's case for you?

I'm going to listen while I look something up for here real quick.

You seem like you've lost interest in the- No, I'm looking.

I thought it was three and a half.

No, for our contest, it's three. Oh, it was three.

Minus 120. Look at how they priced that thing. I know.

Sunday Night Game. If this was a Sunday 1: 00 PM game, I'd be afraid to take Green Bay. Sunday night game, the lights are on, and I do think this team has the lights are on. They have that side to them. Dvoa, Green Bay 6, Pittsburgh's 10th. Pittsburgh's defense, 31st against the pass, 31st against first downs, 25th on third down. And if you look at their wins, barely beat the Jets week one. Field's last great game ever.

Probably ever.

They beat the Pats because the Pats turned the ball over five fucking times and fumbled on the goal line and threw a goal line pick. They beat Minnesota by three points in Ireland with Carson Wentz. And they beat Cleveland, it sucks.

Well, not just that. It was Cleveland coming off their international game with Dylan Gabriel, who Yeah.

Then they lost to Joe Flacko last week. Twenty-sixth against the run, Green Bay second against the run, their defense. So I don't think they're going to be able to run the ball. So this would have to be an Aaron Rodgers beats us game. And granted, going against Green Bay. But this just feels like a square, oh, Steaar's, Tomlin' Home, Rodgers' Revenge game. And it's like, how about this? We thought the packers were a potential Super Bowl team before the year, you win this game if you're going to the Super Bowl. That would be the case.

I don't have the time to go look and see what it opened at. It was three and a half for quite a bit of this week, and I thought it It was a great Stealers situation.

Yeah.

The three is not a great number. I don't love...

Packers minus three? Yeah. Are you worried about the push?

Well, no. I just mean from the Stealers perspective. I like it much better with them, dog fight with the hook.

Yeah, but I want to take the packers.

I understand that. I had a case prepared for the Stealers-With the hook?

With the hook, yes.

Yeah, the hook feels pretty vital to me because here's the thing that Pittsburgh has been unable to address all season long. They give up explosives like it's pooky and Black Tony, giving out injury advice before a Trailblazers game. They just can't wait to let somebody throw the football down the field. And that is one thing for For sure, that Jordan Love can do. It's one thing for sure that the packers can do. They could throw the football down the football field.

They've definitely been spotty the last few weeks. There's no question. And they've had like, Jacob's losing 100 %, Jordan Love. The pace of their... They did that terrible Cleveland game. Just terrible. I like the zag.

You know what? I'm feeling a zag. I'm feeling it.

You're getting me. Like a Sunday night, the packers. It's a narrative game where we come out of that game, we're like, Oh, the packers. Maybe they are a contender.

Yeah, because everybody was ready to write off the packers after they looked so dominant the first two weeks. And then they showed some inconsistency. The Dallas tie, not looking very impressive.

The Dallas tie where... Dak was just unbelievable in that game. The reason they... They scored Why wouldn't they tied, they scored 40 points. So why wouldn't they score 40 points against Pittsburgh?

I'm here. I like this. Let's do this. Yeah, I like this.

So we're looking at... I think we have our five then. That was easy. On a short week, we somehow have five picks. Apologies to the Panthers. They didn't make the cut. All right, house, here we go. Today's Ringer 107, the BS House Edition, is brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. We are one game under 500 for this season. We are 16 and 17. We were 0 and 7 in games that could have gone either way or something weird happened in the last three minutes. Then we finally had some luck on Sunday with the Minnesota Vikings where we had them in a parlay. They were what? Plus seven and a half.

Plus seven and a half.

They're down six. Eagles get this long plate, AJ Brown, and it's like, Oh, my God, they're going to get a field goal. We're going to get screwed again. And they do some wacky time thing where they run out the clock and they don't have to kick the field goal. It was the first time anything's gone our way all year in a stupid situation like that. So that makes me feel good. First one, we're going to do your pick, the Falcons, just to blow out the Dolphins Falcons. Falcons minus seven and a half at home. We love the Falcons as a home team. Sure do. We just feel like at this point to be able to bet against Tua and Mike McDaniel, much like watching Victor Wembedyama right now, a privilege.

I mean, we can go X's and O's. We can talk about how dominant the Falcons his rush attack has been, how incredible Bijan has been, how destitute the Dolphins run defenses, how the Dolphins' offensive line is an abomination, and the pressure that the Falcons can bring.

How they can't stop the run.

We can do all those things, but we don't really need to. You just have to look at Mixtape Mike one time, take a snapshot of that dude at his press conference and be like, I'm betting against that guy.

I wish I wasn't going against Béjan Robinson in fantasy week. Falcons minus seven and a half. That's our first one. They should be able to hopefully run it up. We like the Falcons as home tape. Next one, Texans minus one and a half at home against 49ers. This is a bet on the Houston defense in a kitchen sink situation going against Mac Jones and a Niners defense that's just Scotch tape, duct tape, and glue, and some thumb tacks.

I just want to say I respect San Francisco. I'm hoping that the football gods look favorably.

How about this? They don't need the game. They're five and two. This is an AFC cross thing. I get it.

That's a knock-down, drag-out that NFC West.

I believe in that Houston defense. I thought what they did Monday night as their offensive line was just murdering them, and Stroud was murdering them and their defense over and over again. I was like, Fine, we'll get the ball back again. Great. Cowboys plus three and a half against the Broncos is our next one. This is in Denver. We think these teams are pretty even. Dak is a top three or top four guy in the league. And if it's a shootout or a back and forth with Bo Nicks, I'd like to have my money on Dak. I also think there's backdoor potentially, even if they're down 10 late, of them scoring again. And we both like this Cowboys team.

We do. I'm just, once again, in a position where Bo Nicks might shove it right in my face.

Just saying. As we're doing Ringer 107, the Vikings are down by 21 to the chargers. And that was a potential playoff competitor for Dallas to get that Seed or Seventh Seed. So if you can shove the Vikings out of there, you get Caleb to self-combust with the bears.

It's going to be the Falcons and the Cowboys. Not even kidding. Because Washington's out.

Then Packer Stealers. This is a nice zag for us. Sunday night. Stealers looking too obvious with Tomlin, At Home, Pittsburgh, Aaron Rodgers, Rejuvenation. But if you go through that Stealers schedule, the wins and some of the stats, it's pretty grim. We think there's another level of this packers team. Every week somebody goes up and people are like, Whoa, that team. I think this is a, whoa, that team. I like it. I do like it. I do like it. Packers minus three on the road Sunday night. Then last one, a little parlay. Colts down to minus one and a half as they're blowing out Tennessee. We got that. Pats just to win against Cleveland. Only win. Just win by one. We're fine. And then the Ravens in the ultimate kitchen sink game. They cannot go one and six. They have to beat the bears. We get to bet against a very shaky Caleb Williams against a bear's defense with some really good advanced stats going against them, and more importantly, on Lamar Jackson.

Well, here's the thing for the Ravens, and I will separately be betting This will be my best bet. And I don't really even care if ultimately, Lamar doesn't end up playing. I mean, he practiced. There is this ham string thing. They are healthy for the first time on defense with Picard at fullback and likely at tight end. And here's the thing for everybody to do when you hear this, go as fast as you can and buy your Derrick Henry. Their whole run game is a 12 personnel run game where Picard likely are goddamn dominant. Go get every Derek Henry total now because it'll all be seven yards higher. Get the number of touches, attempts, all of it. Get all your Derek Henry now. Anytime, touch down the whole kit and caboodle, because those prices are going to be through the roof by Sunday. I love the Ravens to absolutely smash the bears this week.

Ravens win, pats win. Colts by minus one and a half over Tennessee minus 117. That's our last pick. Texans minus one and a half. Cowboys, plus three and a half. Falcons, minus seven and a half. Packers, minus three. That is the Ringer, 107. It was brought to you by Fandil's Sportsbook. Od subject to change. House, we did it. We just cruised through a fucking shitload of stuff in an hour and a half. I'm proud of us.

It's pretty good. I mean, Al Bady and Bruce thought that was a pretty goddamn good show. I know.

Got to get his thoughts later. I'll see you at our illegal poker game today.

I can't. Thanks for coming up. I can't wait. But let me borrow your contacts.

All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to House. Thanks to Gehal and Eduardo as well. I will be back on Sunday with the Cus. Hopefully, the Patriots will be six and two. Hopefully, we won't have any more illegal NBA gambling scandal stuff. And I will see you on Sunday Must be 21 plus in President Select States for a Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in President DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gamble problem? Call 1-800 Gamble or visit rg-help. Com. Call 888-79-7777 or visit ccpg. Org/chat-in-connect, or md-gamblinghelp. Org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelp-line-ma. Org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 877-8 Hope, N-Y or text Hope, N-Y in New.