Transcript of The 2026 NBA Trade Value List. Plus, Harden, JJJ, and Giannis Trade News With Joe House

It's a 10 to your notice. All right, live on Netflix. I can't speak. Live on Netflix. Bill Sivitz here with Joe House. We are going to do our annual MBA Trade Value List podcast that we have been doing The First One house, December 2007, the first year at a podcast on the worldwide leader. And in that Trade Value List, I think we ranked Carlos Booser above Dirk Nowitzke. And now, 19 years later, Carlos Booser's son, now about to be a top three pick in the NBA draft. It all comes around. And now we're on Netflix, a place that was mailing out DVDs to customers in 2007. And now we're doing a live podcast for Netflix and Spotify. Spotify existed in 2007. But look at this. We're just moving with the times. This is great. I will explain the trade value concept to everybody in a second, but we got to talk about James Harden first. James Harden.

News of the day.

We always get everybody is like, it's going to be a slow trade. And then all of a sudden, Saturday or Sunday, whatever day that was during the weekend, I was like, James Harden not playing today. Personal reasons, parentheses. It was like, oh, personal reasons. What does this mean? Are we about to do the dance with James Harden again? Then it leaks out. Chris Mannix reports yesterday there is a James Harden-Darius Garland trade that's far down the road and might happen, might not. Now, as we're recording this, Tuesday, 10: 30 p. T. Am. It feels like this trade is happening. What was your reaction when you heard that this trade was even a one for one possibility as we're working on the Trade Value List?

Made sense. To be honest, I Got to see Cleveland this year, up close and personal. Went to Wizards game, and Darius Garland played, which was great. Got to see him. I will tell you You're the expert at the body language and all of the... You have your PhD in analyzing team chemistry. Yes. But it was... I was paying attention because I had really good seats. Thank you to our good friends. I'm not going to give a shout out, actually. Just thank you to all of our good friends out there. And it was just not a big bro hug vibe coming out of Cleveland in in general when I saw them. I think this was in December. But the guys were all navigating their own paths, is what I would say.

It's a car keys situation, right? They somewhat easily coexisted last year, Garland and Mitchell. The team did really well. But now, Garland's in year seven. Mitchell's got a new extension coming up. Garland has been repeatedly getting hurt. I want to talk about that in a I did want to remind people the Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by FanDuel. It's the last call for football on FanDuel. One final Sunday, one last kickoff, the final chance to place your bets before the NFL season closes its tab. Because after the Super Bowl, the season's over, football is officially done, and me and house are sad. Last call for football on FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl '60s. 21 plus in President select states or 18 plus President DC, Kentucky, Wyoming. Get a problem call 1, Andrew Gamber, or visit rg-help. Com. Call Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg. Org/chat in Connecticut. Garland, there's a durability thing with him that I think is factoring in. One thing about James Harden, the moods will go up and down. Maybe the weight will even go up and down a tiny bit, but he does play. He's out there. He is durable, whereas Garland is not.

And you can get out of his contract after the year. The shit detector in me, though, he had a trade kicker 15% trade kicker. Cleveland is over the second apron. So this deal works as a one for one. But if you put in the 15% trade kicker, now, granted, we've only had these apron rules for a year and a half, and they're trying to figure out, trying to read Chinese or something. But I'm pretty sure the kicker would then make it impossible for Cleveland to do the deal, which leads me to wonder, did they have to ask Harden to waive the trade kicker? And he's like, Well, why would I do that? Are you going to give me an extension? Extension, both teams or one team both say, Well, we can't give an extension because the one-year deal you signed, you can't get an extension until the summer. Then we move into wink-wink category.

Oh, boy.

Well, what if we wink-winked an extension for the summer Who knows? The other thing we don't know is who pushed for this trade. Did the Clippers do this and Harden found out? I theorize that today. He finds out all of a sudden he's in a trade. He's mad. He doesn't play. Or because the Clippers wouldn't give him an extension, was he out scouting possible teams, ended up with Cleveland, and now they're just trying to figure it out. Which one would you bet on out of those two scenarios?

I think the latter, although the whole Wink Wink thing, he doesn't have a great track record of that.

No, he said he's had a poor Wink Wink history.

Darryl Morey is a liar.

Yeah, that's right. He called Darryl Morey a liar.

According to James Harden. Not me, James Harden.

Well, I'm proceeding like this trade is going to happen. And it's an interesting timing because the Clippers, at least by advanced metrics, were the best team in the league for the last 20 games. I don't think they actually were the best team in the league, but they were making a playoff run. They were going to be at least in the play and probably in the playoff. Gahao, our producer, is a big Clipper fan. I'm going to assume this trade happens, and I just want to say this now. I don't want to jinks it. I'm so happy as a Clipper season ticket holder who has deliberately not been going to that many games, mostly because all due respect, I'm sure he's a nice guy. I cannot stand watching James Harden. I can't stand it. I don't like it. I don't like driving 40 minutes to the Intuit Dome and then having to watch James Harden just have the ball all the time and fish for fouls. I just don't have a good time. It's not what I like.

So I'm surprised to hear that.

What do you mean? You've known me for almost 40 years. How are you surprised? What part of James Harden's game would I be like, Oh, that's my basketball?

Well, first of all, he does get his assists, and And especially the guys who will go to the rim. He and Zubosh had a really nice pick and roll thing going. And Zubosh really elevated last season. I mean, the run that they went on and how they got to 50 games was in no small part because of that chemistry between Harden and Zubosh.

So you're driving 45 minutes back and forth to watch James Harden. That's what you're telling me? You're going to do that 15 times a year?

Let me ask you this question. How many times have you seen Luka play live?

Luka is more fun to me because even though it's the same monoculture basketball thing, but Luka brings in the added benefit of you get to try to figure out what mood he's in. He gets mad at people. He gets really pissed at opponents and referees. It's almost like watching my six-year-old son as an NBA superstar. You don't know when he's going to throw a tantrum.

He does have a short fuse.

It does seem like that. He'll take over a game for eight minutes and it's awesome. I'm way more fascinated in him. I think he makes sense in the context of the Lakers in LA. He's a celebrity. Your eyes gravitate to him. Okay. I just maybe have been watching James Harden for too long.

What about in the context of a winning basketball team? He did drag a team to the finals, and it really was the perfect team. Luca did. Luca did. That's what I mean.

I'm way more pro Luca than James Harden. I have a list for you. It's my least favorite good players to watch in the 21st century. We are now 25.

Least favorite good players. Okay, go ahead.

James Harden is my least favorite player to watch in person since Dwight Howard. Never, ever, ever enjoyed watching Dwight Howard, ever, at any point.

I got to see a good bit of him. I can't remember. I think I left feeling neutral about him.

Remember we sat courtside for the Super Bowl in Indianapolis? Yes. That the Patriots fucking blew. We sat underneath the basket and it was right when Dwight Howard was becoming unhappy with his Orlando situation, or maybe he was already unhappy, we got to watch him just ram into bodies and bang around and do Dwight Howard stuff. He was very physical. Yeah, he was very physical. I don't know if I would have wanted to watch that 15 times. Steve Francis.

Oh.

Putting him on here for my least favorite Good Players to Watch 21st Century, the classic score first point guard who has no interest in setting up anyone else in the team but somehow gets all his stats. I have him.

I feel like this is going to be a theme.

No, your guy Bradley Beal.

Oh.

Putting him on there. Yeah, Bradley Beal, last few years.

What do you want me to say? I have nothing to say.

Okay.

What's crazy, I will say this. There was a very nice celebration of John Wall last week. John Wall is part of the prime team, and they did a bobblehead for him. And I honestly think they may get around to retiring John Wall's jersey. But the curious thing is you can't retire both John John Wall and Brad Beal. I mean, all that team did was get to the semis in 2017.

You're telling me you're going to retire John Wall's jersey? I think there's a chance.

I think it's possible. What?

They should retire his Amnesty Claus cap figure, whatever the hell they had to do. Who should be the fifth player in this team? Harden, Dwight Howard, Steve Francis, Bradley Beale. I need a power for it.

Well, I'm glad that you didn't say the guy who's going to absolutely be transformative for my Washington team next year, and that's Trey Young, who I I was positive.

I don't mind watching Trey Young.

He's going to come out of your mouth. Good.

Thank you. All right. I need a power forward. Is there a power forward from over the years? It's just like the power forward- Anyone? Maybe Rasheed Wallace when he didn't care?

Well, no. That's Derek Coleman, right? It's in that- That's '90s, though.

I need this century.

Okay, this century. Somebody who had Josh Smith. That's a great one.

Josh Smith. That's my fifth. I'm going to write him down. James Hard and Dwight Howard, Steve Francis, Bradley Bill, and Josh Smith. That is an automatic calling the season I get representative and saying, I've decided not to renew my tickets. Can I give you another James Harden? Last five weeks, 24 points a game, 8 assists games.

Solid.

Good. 38% field goal, 29% Three pointers.

Tough. It's tough.

Older player starts out hot. Season goes along. Now, if he's on the calves, you have to do less. I get the- Mitchell has the ball a lot. I actually like the fit for him in the calves.

Me, too. So explain to me, Garland and the Clippers, how that works, because I get Harden in the calves and how that raises their ceiling, and especially this run that they could go on if they could just... Maybe this little chemistry bit will be the tipping point for them. Help me understand Garland and the Clippers.

Ten years younger. I'll just put it this way. If I told you in July when... I can't remember if the Clippers had signed James Harden If I told you in July, there's really no market for James Harden other than one or two teams. He's going to sign a one-year deal, and in six months, he's going to be traded straight up for Darius Garland. Your answer would have been no way. There's no way that's happening. Cleveland would never do that. Stop it. But I think Garland's stock has fallen a little bit. I think if you're the Clippers, it's a no-brainer. You have a chance to get a younger asset. His deal is not bad. It's got three years left. He's represented by the Rich Paul. Hey now. Now I'm all in.

Listen to this.

No, but I've always loved Garland. I've always wanted to see him with the Carkies on his own team, and I actually like the fit with him and Kawhi and Zu. I don't know. I don't think it's going to hurt the team this season that much if he's playing. The problem is you're rolling the dice on his feet. I think, what do we say? He wears new balances?

Is that right? I don't I'll look at her picture and see what shoes is in.

When players continue to have problems with feet and ankles, to me, that's less about the player, more about the equipment. Most famously, Grand Hill wearing the Fila's is the worst example of this. But obviously, it's got weird feet. I was talking before we came on. I have fat feet. It took me forever to realize I should wear the wide Nikes when I walk for 15,000 steps a day.

Nikes are narrow. Nikes are perfect for my feet.

Yeah, Nikes are narrow. My feet are fat, and the Nikes would grind the sides of my feet, and I would get blisters all over the place. I'm like, Oh, I have dumb feet. Why do I get so many blisters? It's like, Because I'm wearing the wrong shoes, dumb ass. Yeah, it's your feet fault. Yeah. It's not you. It's very fixable. Let me throw one other thing with Cleveland because this will lead into the trade value thing that we're about to do. I know there's a bunch of people are like, Giannis isn't getting traded until this summer. That seems to be the consensus this around the week. I'm one of them. I disagree because I think for a few teams, this is their chance to grab a Giannis trade before it gets to the summer and the Knicks, Cleveland has a better way to do it, some other teams. It would just be easier to make trades in the summer and go after them. Teams will be less happy with... You're bringing more variables into it.

But that's good for Milwaukee.

It's good for Milwaukee, but it's also good for teams like a Cleveland. They're 13. 8 over the second apron. When you're over the second apron, you can't package players to make trades. You can only trade one player out. Whatever you're getting back has to be less than that player or the trade's off. They're now, because of stupid Vivek and the Kings, once again, doing something dumb to help out another team. The Kings trade for DeAndre Hunter, and they send back Kean, Ellis, and Schroeder. It saves the calves. Uh-oh.

Wow.

We just got breaking news.

This is better than The Trade Deadline show.

This is the best... I'm having a great time.

We better start doing this show on Tuesdays at 1: 30. This is the new thing.

So Jaron Jackson has been traded to the... Junior. Jaron Jackson has been traded to the Utah Jazz. What's the trade?

Marketing has to be involved, right?

We might have to get Zack Lo to come on this.

Great. Let's do it.

Love Zack Lo. You should just tag Zack. If he's available, he should just pop on. Yeah. Holy macro. So what was the trade?

Marketing has to be involved, right?

Does he? I mean, they could keep marketing. They have expirings and just trade a bunch of their pics.

What is Memphis doing? Memphis, this is the full rebuild. So Marant, they'll get a bag of Cheetos from Marant now.

So Jaron Jackson is 35 million this year. Extension kicking in next year, five years for 205 million. It's fair. Five years is also the number of rebounds per game he averages. You really obsess over the number of rebounds that Triple J gets. Yeah, because you didn't rebound. You weren't a great rebounder.

I'm a perimeter player.

That's what Jared Jackson said. It's like, Can you grab some rebounds? He writes.

He's right. Me and Triple Jay.

Back to Cleveland. We'll find out what this trade was, but back to Cleveland for a second. So They got to get 13. 8 million under the second apron. There's a bunch of teams with exceptions. They have Lanzo, 10 million expiring, Max Truce at 15, Kean Ellis at 2. 3. They can get rid of some... So they can actually get under the apron before Thursday, which would allow them to then do a Mowbley and other stuff for Yannis and Kuzma, whatever it takes. Would you trade Mowbley for Yannis?

Maybe. Here's my reservation, and here is why I think we're waiting until summer. Tell me the truth about Yannis' calf. Tell me the truth.

The truth?

It seems to get tweaked a lot. A lot. This is the problem. Is he going to play in the playoffs this upcoming season?

Well, he's not going to be in the playoffs. Oh, here we go. Here's the trade. Jaron Jackson, John Conchard, Jacques Landell, and Vince Williams Jr. I like him. For Walter Clayton Jr, Kyle Anderson, Taylor Hendrix, George Neang, and three future first-round picks, which I'm guessing are unprotected.

Wait, did you say Kessler?

No, I said- You did not. I did not. Well, he's out for the year.

So?

That's interesting swing for Utah. I don't know if I love Jaron Jackson at 50 million a year, but that's just me.

That means they have a very strong conviction about Jaron Jackson and Lory Malkinen playing together.

Do like that combo.

That's pretty interesting.

Who's rebounding in that team?

Kessler, where he comes back next year. That's what I just asked.

The thing with Jaron Jackson is like, he's a really good rim protecting center, but he needs to play next to a center.

So something about- But I thought he was the center. Something about Keante George pushed them in this direction.

Pushed Keante George in a trade value direction, too.

Well Well placed.

So Memphis, they trade Jaron Jackson, they get Picks back. Last summer, they trade Desmond Bain. Would they get four first for him?

A whole bunch of Picks, yes.

And now they're going to try to stick Ja Moran on Vivek, which they'll probably succeed in doing. And that's just a full reboot for a team that I think the furthest they got was round two. And ironically, the guy they couldn't wait to get rid of first turned out to be the culture guy on their team, Dylan Brooks. Everybody was like, This guy's so immature. What's wrong with this guy?

In fairness to the team, he was, I'll just use the word somewhat erratic. Not completely erratic. No, he was erratic. He was pretty erratic.

Nobody was like, Wow, I can't believe they decided to move on from Dylan Brooks. But I think he's matured.

He dare them to.

He's turned it into being a really good culture setter for Phoenix. If you look at Phoenix's team, we're doing Trade Bayou. I think we only have one. We have two sons, Booker and Brooks.

They didn't know. Out of the entire list. He didn't know. Somebody didn't know what leader he could be. Maybe this was the problem all along. Nobody ever gave him the car keys. Let Dylan cook.

See, that's what was making him crazy. Nobody would give him the car keys. It's like me and ESPN. So the difference with this Jackson trade, and when you were in a similar situation in DC with Bradley Beale, is they moved fast to trade even before the extension kicked in to get the first round pics back.

How much are we allowed to curse on this show?

Well, The Whizz gave Bradley Bill the extension, and people were like, That's where Jaron Jackson, the extension was much more defensible.

The extension wasn't the problem. Ken Kirst, right?

Yeah.

It was the fucking no trade clause. It was the motherfucking no trade clause. That was the problem, giving him the car keys over whatever preferred destination he wanted and having to kowtow to a player that made one third team, all-NBA team once in his entire career. It gave him the benefit of that super extension. It only took one time under the previous collective bargaining agreement, so they had to pay him. Good God. I'm over it. I'm over it. I'm sorry. Let me take it down a notch.

We're going to talk about this Super Bowl for one second, and then we're going to do the TradeValue. Great. And the Super Bowl moment is brought to you by Mc globe Ultra. It is now Tuesday. I've spent the last 48 hours studying all Drake May shoulder footage, including him saying in the podium last night that he feels really good and it's turned the corner. He was carrying his bag coming off the plane. Just his demeanor, his shoulders didn't seem lopsided. I'm feeling good, house. You think it was the compression in the plane?

The air in there is different. Maybe that's what helped. He said he got off the plane and immediately felt better.

Maybe his wonderful wife, the Queen of the North, was just giving him some shoulder massages and working out the kinks in the back. I don't think she's allowed. That's what we call her now, the Queen of the North.

Is she allowed on the plane?

I think they have their own. They have a family plane. The line has not moved. Were you surprised the line has not moved at all? No, that tells us- At four and a half.

That tells the story. If he was hurt, the line would have moved. It would have moved. Sunday, it hasn't moved.

So Thursday, I'm doing a Trade Down Deadline special live with Zack Lo on Netflix. We are going to record a Super Bowl segment with our pics that's going to run at the end of that. You and I? We're going to do that either Wednesday. We'll record it tomorrow. I'd rather get it closer to the game as possible because if there's footage of Drake may just throwing ducks and wobblers, maybe that'll affect the line. Who knows? Anyway, that is the Super Bowl brought to you by Mikola Bultra. Let's do it. And once we get more info on that, Jaron Jackson trade, we'll pop in.

But the trade value- This is the Trade Deadline show.

Yeah, it turned into a borderline So happy. Trade value. So for the people who don't know, I've been doing this Trade Value gimmick since I had my old website before I got to ESPN. And the concept is ranking the players from however the highest number is to one based on who is the most untradable player in the league. And we've been doing that. I started writing this as a column. When I got my podcast in '07, we started doing the annual podcast every year to try... You helped me figure out the list. You're my list conciliarian, my TradeValue conciliar. Have you put that on a resume? Put it on your LinkedIn. Tradevalue conciliar, 2007 to 2026. Here are the rules. Tradevalue, it's really important. We follow these rules. Rule number one, Salaries matter, which matters more than ever in this goofy apron era we're in. The apron is terrifying to everybody. Rule number two, age matters. So this is like a James Harden, Darius Garland thing. Darius Garland is 26. James Harden is 36, which Which guy would you rather want to have? Contractlink matters. This mattered more in the 2000s when we had guys getting seven-year deals.

Remember that era? You had a couple of bad ones. I think you're still paying Gilbert Arenas. Probably. Contract link matters. Rule number 4, happiness matters. So does durability. Conflicting for James Harden fans here. Durable guy, many times unhappy. We've seen this multiple times in the know. Rule number five, bizarre real-life trade should affect the list. So if you think somebody is this trade asset and they were given away for 30 cents on the dollar, aka Trey Young, that was like 20 cents on the dollar. But I'm saying Trey Young is a good example. That trade told us what his trade value was.

There's no example that will ever surpass Luca. I mean, we'll have to forever cope with that.

So you think that affects the list? Or is that like an outlier?

It affects the concept. It is the all-time outlier.

It is the- Yeah, I think that's an outlier. I don't think... I think that was a unique once-in-a-lifetime event.

It brings the whole concept to its knees because it got one first round draft pick, and it was infinitely, permanently heard.

But a lot of Max Christie moving right now. And then rule number 6, concentrate on degrees. And we're going to talk about this over and over again. Two guys that are close together. And basically, and this is one of the things House does as my TradeValue conciliary, I call you and I say, You're Utah and I'm the Pelicans. And I call you and I say, What about Trey Murphy for Lorri Marconin? Straight up. Which side Deliberates longer, has a longer meeting. If somebody's like, no way we're doing that. It hangs up, that means that side probably has more trade value. So you just have to think about it in that context. Degrees of... Obviously, Wemby is not getting traded for Jokuj. But if San Antonio and Denver had that phone call, how does it unfold? Who's more likely to say, That's ridiculous. We're not doing that, or Denver going, We can't do that. Jokuj is our guy. But Wemby is available? And they're going to actually trade them? Probably a longer meeting on the Denver side, right? Yeah. Joker is older. So anyway, that's the thing. Okay. We have a top 80 this year, house.

It's the biggest list we've ever had, I think. You remember the days in the late 2000s when we had 40 guys? We could barely get to 40. We had to pat it with Chris Kamen. Guys that missed the cut just quickly. Zachary Richesche, Josh Hart, Tyler Hero, Naz Reid, Michael Porter Jr, Kam Johnson. Any of those names surprise you so far?

Michael Porter Jr. Because he seems fit to be traded, and he seems to be in a position where he could actually fetch decent assets.

40 million this year, 37 next year, and has not played defense, I don't think, since 11th grade.

That would be my case. Right team, right situation.

Okay. All right. So that's your... He's going to stay there. Kam Johnson. Demontis Sabones really surprised me. He didn't even make the toughest omissions list, but just had this huge extension kicked in. The advanced metrics are terrible for him, and his team seems to lose when he plays, and he's older. I don't see a case for him.

I would say free Sabonis. I'd love to see him play on a decent team where we could... I mean, remember the double-double machine he was as recently as last year? I mean, he could definitely play, and he can definitely be a winning basketball player in the right circumstance. This, unfortunately, is not it.

Jared Allen, who would have made the list last year and probably did, but has this big 30 million a year extension kicking in next year. I think Cleveland would probably be delighted to get off of that and get a cheaper big man. Agor Deman. You did it. I screwed that up. No, I know it's Agor. I can't remember Demen. I always call him Agor. You could call him Deman. I like him a little more than I did when I saw him in person. But there's maybe something there. We'll see. Herb Jones, Aaron Smith. Kaleel Ware, who doesn't really play anymore. And I also think could have been on this list a month ago.

So what is weird is he and Kaminga, two guys who came in with all of the like, Oh, wow, there could be something here. These guys could grow into players. Ware drafted much further back than Kaminga?

Right. No, Ware was in the middle of the lottery, basically. Right. Yeah. So what's your point?

Just Just the weird falling out of favor with coaches that we trust. We tend to trust Spolstra, and we tend to trust-Right.

Maybe it's a tough love approach.

It didn't really work with Kaminga. No. I'm going to say it did not work with Kaminga.

I'm going to say it decidedly did not work. Isai Hartinstein is on here. He's paid a lot. He's like 29 million. And I think It's a team option next year so they can grab it.

Worth every penny.

I like them, but I'm just saying that's- They won the title because of them. The center position, I think teams are usually looking for that 15 to 20 million range, not 30. Miles Bridges, Christian Braun, Shaden Sharp. My guy, Scoot Henderson. I'll still buy all your stock. I know the stock for Scoot is lower, but it is what it is. Kobe White, he's on his last year of his deal and probably getting paid next year, so that's why he's not in there. Okay. Toughest omissions. We have 12 guys for this list. The first one is a Wizard.

Let me tell you.

Kyshon George.

Kyshon George, yes.

Kyshon George. I called him Kyshon George. Kyshon George. I don't think I've watched the Wizards game with the announcers. I just see them on the bottom left TV, and I have no idea how to pronounce any of their names.

Respectfully, it's hit or miss with the local broadcast group. But I will say this, this dude can flat out play. He can absolutely... He could be a scorer.

Hit some threes.

He can definitely hit threes. He's tough. He's super young, and he's not yet reached the full potential of how strong he can be. When that comes in, he's going to be a force. He Absolutely. When they want to win games, he's on the floor in the fourth quarter, and he makes good decisions.

Nikhil Alexander-Waaker.

Sure.

Who has been a great signing for Atlanta and is averaging almost 20 a game. Devon Vassell on San Antonio. A little pricey. He's around 27. Alex Caruso, great glue guy, a little older, 32. He's got a new deal. It's like 20 million a year for a few more years. But I found it hard to believe he couldn't crack the list. Jalen Sugs, Who I really like, and so do you, but fatter contract now and doesn't seem to be able to play more than 10 straight games.

We don't like that.

First, Rando, Colin Murray-Boyals. You wear his work in Toronto?

Yeah, he's an elemental part of their success. He's part of the overall depth that that team has that makes this version of them successful. He can play. They wouldn't trade him.

Really, really elite, elite defensive shit going on with him.

Yeah.

And just the guy you need, and he's on a rookie contract. I put Luke Cornet on the list.

No, that's just you.

You did that. He's 10 million a year. Would you rather pay Are you going to say Lou Cornet, 10 million a year or Jared Allen 30? You had a chance. That's no contest.

I mean, I guess you couldn't figure it out in Boston how to keep him.

Well, they didn't want to spend the money. Chibari Smith, I'm just going to go down on the ship with. I just like him. I think he's criminally misused on this team because they have so many assets, and they just tell him to stand in the corner. I think there's so much more there. I don't like it. If I was a GM, I'd be trying to trade for him constantly.

If they don't do anything by the end of the day, Thursday, I am jumping into their regular wins market, the season total. It's 53 and a half right now, and I am hammering the under. I am going to buy so much under on the Rockets at 53 and a half if they don't do anything on the trade deadline.

I watched them play Indiana last night. There wasn't a lot of basketball on last night. It just feels like everything's a grind with them now that they don't have that. They I had that Steven Adams offensive rebounding wrinkle that made them invincible sometimes. And now they don't have it, and they feel gettable every game.

Their fourth quarters are not good.

Their regular season wins now. It's 53 and a half now.

That's what I mean. If it stays there at the trade deadline, I am buying a big chunk of under.

Can I interest you at all in Utah at 24 and a half or an over-under?

I think they're going to go over.

Right now, they are...

Well, it's not... Can you still...

They're 15 and 35 now. There's 32 games left, so they'd have to go 9 and 10 and 22, to hit it?

How many games is Triple J going to play?

I don't know. Did they ice them?

They will ice somebody in a heartbeat. I mean, the thing they come up with.

That's a fun team for him to go to, by the way. Well, I love him getting- When Kessler comes back with marketing, if they get anything for Mace Bayley, they have a point guard, they have cap space and draft picks to get more stuff. I don't mind that. Will Hardy. I'm talking myself in that trade.

Yeah.

Why do you have to talk yourself into it? Because I want to see if the pics are unprotected. If they're unprotected, that would make me a little more nervous. Okay. Moussa Diabate on the Hornets. I know. I don't know if you're familiar with his work lately, but there's some of the most insane plus minus stats of five-band lineups and I There you go. Test, too. Yes, that's what- Just exactly what they needed. Hugo González, who has the best plus minus, I think, of any rookie in the last five years and is only six months older than my son and comes in and swings games and is an absolute man and a maniac, and I love him. If they ended up somehow out of nowhere doing Yannis' trade and he was in it, I'd be bummed out. Then I'd be like, Yannis is on the team. I'll get over it. Timani Kamara and Trey Johnson He's our last toughest omission. I put him on there for you.

Thank you.

Do you think Trey Johnson had a case to be in the top 80?

No, not yet. He might get there. He can shoot. He works super hard. Perfect character guy Okay. Let's see this rising stars thing. I want to see how he is playing with his peers.

That's the first time that sentence has ever been said. Okay.

I'm still learning my team.

Top 80, we separate them into tears. Going Going from 80 to one. And Group O, it's going by letters. I don't remember us getting to O before. O was a lot. Jesus.

It's a lot of guys.

Group O is called Grab Your Stock Now, and it's all cheap guys. It's number 80, Anthony Black, 79, Ace Bailey. Number 78, Payton Watson.

Look at you.

Jump in out of nowhere. N is an RFA, so they're actually going to have to pay in this summer. Tari Easton, who I'm never going to give up on and has actually been playing. Modus Bezoas, and Donovan Clingon at 75. So Black, Bayly, Watson, Easton, Bezoas, and Clingon. Who's your favorite out of all those guys?

It's Easton. I tried to come up with a case to push him further up, that he would fetch more in value than where he is right now. I couldn't get there.

The league's too deep.

Again, he is one of the guys on Houston Austin, when there's seven minutes left and their opponent is closing the gap, closing the gap, closing the gap. On the offensive end, he's not doing anything to help stave that off.

Yeah, I think that's a good point. I will say all six of these guys I really like for different reasons. I don't know what Bayly is, but he's clearly there's something there. I have no idea what's there, but something's there. Black has been playing really well recently, like the last five weeks. Watson has been a revelation since Joker went out. I'm still in on Bezealous. I like him. I like his game. He's so young.

Why do you say it that way? Still in. Why would you be out?

Sometimes it seems like the Bulls aren't in on him. There's games where he'll just disappear from the game.

I don't think we can take any, draw any inferences from anything the Bulls do.

That's very fair. And then Klingon is just a badass. He really is. He killed the Celtics last month. Really destroyed took the game over.

So Portland and Washington played, and there is definitely, last week, there is some rivalry thing between him and Tsar. Oh, wow. And they were talking, and Quisha and George was really the animating force. They were talking so much shit to Klingon the whole game. And it was physical. I couldn't have enjoyed it more. Denny, Denny Abdiah is motivated to-Former Whiz. To be a former Whiz, yeah. It was a really fun game. Washington and Portland, super underrated.

Klingon is really competitive and talks his shit a little bit. Sure does. And tries to intimidate. I really like him. I think he's good. I almost wanted to put him like 15 spots higher next to Alex Sahr in that group, but I couldn't quite get there because I'm not sure about the health of them. Okay, next group. Those are all rookie contract guys, which are the easiest, best commodities, especially in the April there. Next group is Group N, Valuable Assets on Okay Contracts. These aren't bad contracts. They're not great. Number 74, Dyson Daniels. He just signed an extension for 4,400. I liked him more last year, and I've watched a lot of Hawks. I have some overs with them, and they've never been able to put their shit together, and it doesn't feel like he's better than he was last year, which I would have assumed he would be better than he was last year, but he's not.

We've been on the wrong side of the Hawks every year. For what feels like- They're like the stealers for us in NFL for basketball.

Anyway, I can't give up on him because he's too good of a... His hands on defense are just unlike anything. James Hart at number 73. 39 million this year, 42 million dollar player option. And I got to be honest, he wasn't on this list until two days ago when the Garland stuff started because that, I think, made both of us realize, Oh, yeah, I guess he still has the value because of the stats. So he's there. Brandon Ingram, number 72. He's on a three 120 deal. Still can't believe my guy Rich Paul pulled that one-off.

He helped stabilize Toronto.

He helped stabilize Toronto. Unbelievable contract, though.

Toronto is going to get a five-seat, six-seat in the East?

Yeah, we'll see.

They're competitive.

Mikael Bridges, number 71. He is $24 million this year, and then it kicks into a $4 million, $150 million extension. He's taken the hits on this team, doesn't have the ball a ton. Their defense has been really good for the last two weeks. And all the Knicks fans I know are like, Shit's happening. Mike Brown finally figured it out. They're not playing Clarkson. And he's a piece of that. But this feels the right range for him, right?

Yeah. I mean, he's tough to know what exactly to do with because there is still- Because on the Wizards, he'd probably have the ball a lot more and be more fun to watch. He also really could be He's so tough. He could be that enforcer role for a team that wants to play physical. If he was on Houston, I think he could be an absolute force for them.

Norm Powell is number 70. Interesting one because he's 20 million this year, and then he's a free agent. I don't know whether that helps or hurts trade value. I feel like it probably hurts.

How old is Norm Powell now?

I'm going to say he's 33 or 34.

Okay.

33 three? Why do you ask?

Well, because he, by the numbers, is having a better shooting season for the heat than he did last year for the Clippers, and the Clippers really missed him at the beginning of the season. I think that was the one ingredient more than any other ingredient that led to them only winning four games.

John Collins has been okay now. Now? Yeah, you're right.

In the first 25 games, the Clippers were a disaster. And I think a big part of that was because they missed Norm Powell. And Norm Powell has been good. He scored well.

You're right. He's 33 next year. Josh Gidey is number 69. He's 4 for 100. Right contract for him. Right team. I'm not sure if you're trying to win a title. I'm not sure what number in the pecking order is, but he's probably fourth, I would say. You probably have to have three guys better than him on the team to win a title.

Yeah, two or three guys.

Desmond Bay, number 68. He's five-year, $197 million deal, so I'm dinging him for that. That's pretty pricey. Rudy Gobert, number 67. Reed did his deal. It's now three for 109. There's just not a lot of him. I'd rather have him than Jared Allen if we're paying roughly around the same money. Jd McDaniels, four for 108. He's number 66. Darius Garland, number 65, three for 126. Interesting that he's 65. Harden is 73, and yet they're being traded straight up. Obviously, I can't tell teams what to do, but that's how I have him ranked. And then Lou Dore is number 64. He's 18 this year, 18 next year, and House just signed with Clutch. So OKC is the team option for him next year at 18, but now he's with Clutch. I think Lou Dore is a... I'm not saying they're going to trade him in the next two days, but you have to think about it if you're Presty, because you're not going to pay him. You're paying three max guys, basically. You're not going to pay Lou Dore 30 million a year. You have Cais on Wallace who can probably take some of his minutes.

So if O'Kasey did something, I think he's involved, right?

It makes perfect sense. And this is exactly... It was either this trade-out line or this coming summer when folks anticipated that he would have to go. I mean, that's the sacrifice the team is going to have to make. And it's fair. He helped them win a ring. That was awesome. Yeah, they won a ring.

He did his job. He did his job. Everything else is gravy. So Group N, Daniels, Harden, Ingram, Bridges, Powell, Gitty, Bain, Gobert, McDaniels, Garland, and Lou Dore. That's from '74 to 64. We're going to take a break, but I got one more quick group. Now, let's save it. The group's called Valuable Assets on Horrific Contracts, and we're going to do it right after this break. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Last call for football. It's sad. Fanduel is giving you a daily profit boost every single day leading up to Super Bowl 60. Today's 30% profit boost is on over, under, an alternate rushing yard. Props. Check back each day for a new daily boost because Fanduel is giving everyone something extra to cheer for during football's final week. Play your game with Fanduel, official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 60. You must be 21 plus, President Slec States are 18 plus, and President DC, Kentucky, Wyoming. Optin Required bonus issued as non-medrable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration, max wage or amount. See terms at sportsbook. Fanduel. Com. Game problem, call 100 Gamble or visit rg-help. Com. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.

Org/chat-connect. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats, which has become a good friend to me during the football season. Big news, Aldi is now on Uber Eats, and you get 20% off your first grocery order with code new Aldi 26, ALDI 26. So whether your fridge is empty or you're too tired to shop, or you just ran out of essential ingredients in the middle of meal prep, don't worry. Fill your fridge in just a few taps and get 20% off your first Aldi order on Uber Eats for orders over $60. You can save up to $20 ends February 28th Term Supply. See app for details. All right, before we next get to this get group, we have some Jaron Jackson stuff that we found out about the trade, thanks to the reporter Shams Shraniya and Bobby Marks as well. Two things I want to point out. One, Shams says the grizzlies now have a $28. 8 million trade exception that they've created in this deal.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah.

Interesting.

You know who makes $27. 5 million?

Who?

Anthony Simons.

Congrats.

If the Celts just wanted to get under the tax and punt on this This year, I have a chance. You have no chance. Bunch of other players, too, that could fit into that. So they become... So Cleveland wanted to... I don't know. Will you take Lonzo Ball and Max Struz from us? And we'll do two swaps with you and whatever, and then they can get under the and go for Yannis. So the grizzlies, who we didn't even know we're going to factor into this trade deadline, now a huge factor. Bobby Marks also says, Memphis now has 13 firsts over the next seven years. Yes, they do. And we still don't know exactly what the firsts are, unfortunately. But I assume they're unprotected.

They're not in the Yannis market, right?

Utah?

No, Memphis.

Why would he want to go there?

Well, does he really have a choice? He doesn't have a no trade.

You follow the NBA. What do you mean? They had that to persuade them. They just don't send people to teams. That's just why they're- I understand.

They would offer them the extension.

I get it. He's not going to Memphis. Stop it house. You know where else he's not going? Washington.

I never thought about it.

Group M, valuable assets on horrific contracts. There's three people here. Carl Anthony Towns, Anthony Anthony Davis and Joel Embiid from '63, '62 to '61. Embiid is four for 243. Davis is a max guy with an extension possibly coming. And then Towns gets into the '60s after a couple of years. Kudos to Embiid for working way back in the trade value list. I think the odds were like 30 to one five weeks ago, right?

It is bizarre the luck that Philadelphia has fallen into here because Going into this season, and I won't express it purely in terms of win totals, but they were just throw up your hands. What the hell could they possibly be, team?

Yeah, we said they had no ceiling and no floor.

What's the best case scenario? Well, it turns out B. J. Edgecombe can immediately come in and form a backcourt with Maxi that looks like one of the best backcourts in the entire NBA, in the mix, top five backcourt, and make them competitive in an East that's up for grabs so that all they need out of Embiid is like 15 to 20 minutes. And then it turns out that that 15 to 20 minutes that they're asking for from him coincides with him. He's in great shape. His body is in, in terms of the overall size, he's not carrying around the extra weight. Now, he moves crazy slow and the lateral movement- And he has one leg.

Don't forget about how he has one leg that works.

But holy shit is he an efficient shooter? Holy mother of God.

That's what Lake said last week.

22 minutes. I have 40 points.

He's one of the best pure shooters in recent league history now. Every shot just goes in. When it hits the rim and goes out, you're Obviously, it's a 20-game sample size where he's been healthy. I hope it stays. I'd rather have more good basketball players than less. I just... Anytime he falls down, you think the worst, right? I guess that's just who he's going to be for the rest of his career. But I thought at the start of the season that this was inconceivable. He does have Drew Hanlin talking a lot of shit on Twitter, which he should squash. Drew Hanlin is shooting coach. He's doing a lot of chirping. It's like, Let's see Embiid 50 games in a year before the chirping starts. We're not doing the victory lap yet. It's like talking during the no hitter, Drew Hanlin. He's like, tight, yelling at the Ringer. We had him 31st in the Ringer 100. Drew Hamlin is like, oh, my God. It's like, the dude hasn't played 40 games since 2023. Where do you want us to rank him? So let's see him get to 50 games. Drew Hamlin should beat himself.

I wondered if we were going to get a combo deal with the Paul George, that Joel and Bede and Paul George together shared whatever substance so that we get them 25 games closer to the playoff so that they're both healthy coming into the playoff.

That's interesting. A fake jet, then they just pay him under the table.

He could just take whatever the thing is. He could have taken it. He's like, What is that?

Paul George did not make the trade value list. So Towns 63, Davis, 62, and Bede, 61. If the Knicks offered Karl-Anthony Towns to the Sixers for Joel Embiid. I think the Sixers would say no, right? I think the Sixers would say- This is official trade value. Yeah, I think they say no, right?

I don't know. How many years are left on that Embiid extension?

He's four for 243 right now. What's left on Towns? This is year one. Towns has three left, and it's over 180. I can't even remember. It's not great.

Towns is a better bargain. Why? What are you thinking?

No, he's really not. I'll read you the numbers.

What's last year's?

No, it's not because it goes... Oh, yeah, it's one last year, but it's 53, 57, 61.

Okay, but what's Joel?

It's one last year. So you think Towns should be above Joel? Because this is why you're the conciliary.

They're in the group. I think all three make sense. It's funny because we have tons of trade rumors about Karl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis. Those two teams trying to find... This is the reporting that's out there, and it's been out there for a while. The weird chemistry of towns with this next team, with Mike Brown's offense, trying to find his place. And Davis was going to go to Atlanta by all indications.

And then he had his 14th injury in the last nine years.

Yes, exactly. Defense wins championships.

All right, now we're hitting a really fun stretch here. This is Group L. We're not even in the top 10 letters yet. Group L, Valuable assets on Great Contracts. Number 60, your guy, Alex Sahr.

Could definitely play. The Whiz did not miss with that number 2 pick overall.

So in a redraft, is he above Castle or no?

It depends on the team drafting. If it's-I still have Castle above him, but I like Sahr.

I think Sahr is a legit guy. Yeah.

If Atlanta is drafting number 1, I think that they might have taken... It would have They accelerated what they had to do with Trey Young if they took Castle. I don't know if that's a thing that they could have coexisted.

So you're in... So out of like... All right, let's say since we graduated college, young guys the Wizards have had, so I'm going to say 22 and under guys the Wizards have had. Has anyone been better than him? Because you got to read us a little bit later. Was John Wall better than him?

He was pretty effing good.

Was Biel better than him? Young Young Biel was great.

Yeah, Young Biel was on an arc where... The thing is, both those guys arrived in the NBA, I think a little bit older than Sarr. I think Sarr is still a little bit younger.

I thought he was 20. So he has three things that are just home runs. You know they're going to translate to the next 15 years. He can already shoot threes for real. Yes. He's a really good three-point shooter for his size.

Great stroke, for sure.

He's a rim protector already. I think he's over two blocks of the game, But he's at least as aware, Hey, that's the rim. The other team is trying to score in it. Let me try to stop them. Also, he's a pretty good one-on-one defender. I can't believe I've watched The Whiz enough to even have an opinion on this.

What do you mean? They're fun.

If they switch and he has to guard a smaller player, I feel like he can guard the smaller player. If he's in space one-on-one, he can actually defend. He moves great. I like him.

He moves great. His feet are great for a seven-footer.

He should be lower than 60, maybe. I don't know. We'll go through the rest. Number 59, Andrew Nemhardt, who is three for 59 as a contract and is just a proven... I've seen him in the finals. You can win a title if he's one of the guys that's out there, and you and I value that the most. Same for this next guy, Caeson Wallace. He's number 58. Still in a rookie contract. They're going to have to pay him soon. I'm sure the Lou Dorep money It goes to him. I want to see when he's playing 32, 33 minutes a game, what do we got? Is there a little more offense there? Can you run offense through him? Is he just a Dore Caruso? I'm going to be over here and I'm going to be a pitbull on defense, and that's who I am. But I obviously-worth it. I'm a huge fan. Okay, this is a good battle here. Number 57 and number 56. Reid Sheppard and Keante George. I wanted to have Reid Sheppard higher and you threw your body in front of it because I think I like him the most because he reminds me of Mark Price so much.

I'm almost like, can't. Mark Price, you and I, one of our most beloved '90s players. We love Mark Price.

So beloved. He came to Washington and then had a foot injury that he never recovered from. But I was so excited when he came to Washington.

Yeah, he was so excited to have his jersey.

And then he never played. We signed him, he broke his foot, and that was it.

God damn it. I love Reid Sheppard. He does so many things I like. I want him to be considered for the '28 Olympic team. This is ludicrous.

His threes, runs, fast breaks. It's an outrage. What's an outrage? He shouldn't be on the list. He should have been a tough omission at best. He could have easily not made the cut. He's definitely a tough omission. He has no business.

How? He's like 20.

No business whatsoever. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. He can't play 25 minutes a game on the team that drafted him. And he couldn't play last year.

So you think I should move him into the '70s?

I think he should be a tough omission. I don't think he's ahead of any of these guys. How is he ahead of Anthony Black? How's he ahead of Tarry Easton?

He's not ahead.

Tarry Easton is on his team.

Those guys are about to all get paid, though. He's on year two of a rookie deal, playing real minutes and crunch time and stuff.

All I'm suggesting is the tapping of the breaks. He does play real minutes at crunch time sometimes, not all the time. I mean, it could be the case that Eme is the most limiting factor on what he's capable of.

Yeah. I'm going to embrace that. I might just have... So he's shooting 38% from three already this year. He's averaging 12 and 3. I think maybe Kyle Mann, we just text too much about him, and that might be messing with my brain on it. I'm all in on Reid Sheppard.

Kyle Mann can text me, and I want to have the case made. I'm all in. He's not in my top 80.

So you wouldn't trade Saar for him ever?

Oh, my God. What?

All right. You know what? I'm going to move Saar above him. That's fine. I'm going to give you that. I'll move Saar above these next two guys.

All these guys should be above. Andrew Nemhardt played an important minute in the effing finals.

I'm projecting five years from now for Sheppard. I think he's going to go look at Mark Price's early stats.

That is some rose-colored projection.

John Stockton barely played as a rookie. I'm just listening white guys. Number 56, Quianti George, who I guess is now number 57. Quianti George is averaging 24 a game for Utah and has been so good that they just mortgage some of the future for Jaron Jackson because I don't think they were expecting his timetable to advance like this. And it's interesting. I'm not positive I'd want to play with him. I've said this on earlier pods. I'm not sure it would be the most fun experience ever to be a swing or a big on his team. But I also, in a close game in the last minute, I feel like he's going to get to the basket or get a good shot. He's just really tough to defend. And I think he's a gamer, too. And I don't know if this is too high or too low.

When they stop messing around and start playing serious and actually try and win games in Utah, he's going to be an effing revelation. He's going to put the league on notice. He's capable of 28 to 30 points a night.

No two ways about So you want to move Reid Sheppard all the way up into the group with Tari Eus and Buzellas and Clingon. That's your conciliarian recommendation.

I push them all the way up.

I'm going to do this. I'm going to give you this one. No, I'm not making the toughest omission. I'll make him number 74. Fine. And we'll figure out when we're going to run this- You want to put him in the same place as Donovan Clingon, then I can't argue with that.

That's fine. That's fine.

That's fine. You got a W. Congrats. Now, Reid Sheppard, anytime he does well, I can text you about I love him. I think he's amazing. Obviously not. You don't love him enough to fight for him in the top 60.

It's outrageous.

Number 55, O'Sarr Thompson. Yeah.

The best record in the East. A very important player on that team.

Interesting. Not as good as his brother, but still really valuable.

Super valuable. It's funny that the limitations that we see out of both of those guys were exactly the limitations. If like, read their draft profile. Coming in. Incredible athletes. This is super dynamic.

They're like the Nader sisters. You can't tell them apart. They'll have the same weight as this in strengths.

They can guard one through five. It's really amazing. Neither one can shoot. Who do you think will be able to shoot first? I mean, Amin has the green light, so Ammon is ahead of officer.

I think Ammon has the... He's more of a bag already. You He didn't actually give him the ball. Like, Lego was talking last week about how he wish he posted up more.

Oh, it was such a great point. I loved hearing that.

I like when they spread the floor for him and it just goes one on one. I don't think his brother can do some of that stuff. Also, Houston's Thompson, probably the best defensive non-center in the league right now. Would you say he's number one? Who's better than him?

No, for sure. I have a ticket for defensive player of the year on Number 54, Isiah Stewart, 3 for 45.

I test great. The advanced metrics are unbelievable with him. He's the best rim protection guy in the league. He's better than Wembenyama and people like that. He's by far the best room protection guy. And Payton Pritchard at number 53, who I think has the single best contract in the league that's a non-rooky contract other than Denny. Payton Pritchard is basically making $7 million a year. His contract is three years for $23. 3 million. It's just nuts.

I want America to know. I seriously considered trying to mount a bigger risk case for not having Pritchard here.

Yeah.

Because America- Be careful, you're going to assault the game on Friday night.

The Boston fans are watching us right now.

They expect you to have him here. America expects you to have him damn near the top 50 in the entire league. The problem is this Celtics team is surpassing all expectations. And he is so important to them, and the money is insane. Three years for 23 million is crazy.

I didn't do this on the pod, but I'm going to do it in my final list, The Ringer. I have a 13th guy for toughest admissions, but I didn't want to put him in on the podcast because you were going to laugh. But I have Kata as the toughest omission. I just was hiding it from you until Thursday.

I'm glad you did.

Kata has been a revelation, too. He's been unbelievable. But yeah, Pritchard, he's the third best guy in a team that's basically the seed or two or three seed and has the second-rated offense in the league. He's a crazy one-on-one player. There's also good stats on this, too, but I test-wise, can beat guys off the dribble and then has This this new T. J. Mcdonald, this new revolution of these guards under the rim that can do these herky-jerky double up fakes.

So T. J. Mcdonald doesn't appear anywhere in any of this.

No.

Because he's not playing.

Yeah. I think his body is finally, one too many charges. So that's the group. So we moved Sheppard into the '70s, which leaves us with Nemhardt, Wallace, Quianci George, Alex Sahr, Thompson, Stuart, and Pritchard.

That's a really good group of basketball players. It's a really fun group. It's really good.

That group is called Valuable Assets on Great Contracts. Okay, Group K. This is called, If you tell Shams, I'll deny it to the death, but I am absolutely unequivocally 100% listening. Number 52, LeBron James. Number 51, Zion Williamson. Number 50, Jaron Jackson Jr. We did it. Look at that. He got traded. But for not- And they probably said, Dude, you can't tell Shams until we agree on the deal. He can't find out.

Not for anybody behind him, curiously. No. Not for anybody. Who were the other players?

Lebron, Zion. No, no, no. Lebron is like, oh, in the Utah Trade. Yeah. Yeah, it was Clayton and expiry space.

Here's my issue. I wanted to argue about Zion. All they're doing is listening. I think he is in the same position as Ja Morant.

No, they're doing, We don't want to trade him. He's finally healthy. That's what they're floating, but nobody believes it.

It's because it's not credible. I think that they would trade him if they got one legit offer with one player or one set of draft picks that would be interesting to them.

Is there a more fun trade on the planet than Zion Williamson for LeBron James and New Orleans agrees to immediately buy LeBron out?

Why would New Orleans do that?

If they got a first-round pick.

Oh, okay. When are you talking?

They're basically paying like 30 million for a first-round pick and to get out of Zion. I don't think this trade will happen. I'm just trying to figure out how to get LeBron off the later.

This is the problem I'm having. How can we have Zion there? That's a bag of chips trade. You just traded for a bag of lace.

Where's Zion supposed to go? In the '70s? I would trade for him. I would trade for him. Would you trade for him in the Wizards?

Fuck, no. You wouldn't? For what? How does he help this young team get better? How does he help the chemistry of this young team.

He puts as- What's the food situation in Washington for him?

When he plays, there's great food in Washington. Washington in the last 15 years- But is it food that would make him put on weight or is it food that- You can do it all. There is definitely food here that would be not good.

It is chocolate city.

Mambo sauce on the chicken wings is not a low-calorie sauce, but the half-smokes from Ben's.

I can't put Zion. I can't move him out of this group. Why? I just think he's too talented because I think every team has meetings about whether they should trade for him or not. He's too talented, and he's young still.

But what are they thinking that they have to give up is the hard question and the question for this group. I don't think it's very much.

Yeah, I don't know the answer. He would not have fetched as much as Jaron Jackson just did.

I don't think so.

Yeah, I don't think so either.

I would have him in the same category as Carl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis and Joel Embiid.

All right, I can do that. I'll move him back. I'll move him. Would the next trade Towns for Zion. Oh, we have a trade. Another This is unbelievable. It's like the league was waiting for us to do this.

This is the Trade Deadline pod. From now on, remember this, go on Tuesdays. You need Zack on Tuesdays.

Huh. Sham says, Jaden Ivy and Mike Conley Jr. To the Bulls. Kevin Herder and Dario Sarge to the Pistons. And Detroit receives a 2026 first-round protected swap from Minnesota. So that's basically just Minnesota dumping Mike Conley and not getting anything back and cutting $10 million out of freeing money for... Look at this. Oh, boy.

I see...

He's doing it. So why is Minnesota freeing up $10 million?

Why is Minnesota...

Why How did they train a beloved teammate, Mike Conley?

This is great. Live on Netflix. This is amazing.

Wow. Who is it? Who?

Who are the candidates? Let's I'm going to go through the potential candidates to play point guard for the Minnesota Timberwolves. Here's my number one.

Oh, you're going that way. Could it be James Harden?

No. Although that would be really interesting. Wow. The rerouting from Cleveland to Minnesota Or the Cleveland deal, the Cleveland Clippers deal isn't done, right?

John Morant? You, you, you, you, you, It's pretty epic, amazing. So for that one to work... Let me look at Minnesota's SpotTrack. For that one to work... Come on. Spottrack. Spottrack going slow. A lot of people on SpotTrack right now. Busy. So Memphis did that 28 million trade exception thing. And I wonder if that factors into anything. They could also be a receptacle for an extra contract in the honest trade if SpotTrack is not working. We're never going to know who's on Minnesota. They don't have anybody. They have Randall's making money. They have Jaden McDaniels making money. They have D. F. F. Making a little less money. Rob Dillingham, they could stick somewhere, and SpotTrack doesn't work.

They need a bunch of those guys to make the run, to keep up the momentum, to be where they are in that upper echelon in the West. They can't really... Who's the most expendable of that group? It's got to be D. Finchenzo. So does that create enough room? The $10 million bucks plus DiVincenzo.

And I think Randall is good. I wouldn't trade Randall.

I wouldn't either.

Why would they do that?

I don't think Randall or Nas Reid or I don't think any of them.

So the pics in the Utah trade, they're trading their most favorable 2027 pick, Cleveland, Minnesota or Utah. So Memphis gets that. They're trading the Lakers 2027 first and Phoenix's 2031 first to Memphis.

How do they have the Lakers 2027 first?

Because I think it was one of the... I think that was the... What's the guy? Vanderbilt Trade from two years ago.

Okay.

That's not... Those pics aren't that good. So Memphis gets some half decent pics, but then they get the trade exception, and they get out of that contract. Thirteen first-rounders. And that's the best they could do. So we might have been in the right range with Jaron Jackson, right?

Yeah.

Okay, back to TradeValue. Wow. Keep those trades coming, MBA. This is great. What a great idea to go live. Group J, sorry. We're pot committed here. Dieran Fox, number 49. Five for 260 is his contract situation.

It's a lot of money.

Ogie Ananobi, He's 48. Next two I'll put together Pascal Siakam, number 47. He's three years, 146. Or Julius Randall, three for 100. I think Randall has more trade value because of the contract. I like both players. I loved what Siakam did last year, but if I'm trying to build a team as cheap as possible, I'd rather have Randall.

This is true for live TV. I have to run downstairs for 15 seconds to let my child into my house.

I locked him out. I'll do it. This is great for live TV. You locked your kid out. I locked him out. So you weren't even listening to my See Occam Randall thing.

They're in the perfect spot. I just realized, though. Panic moment.

If we can throw to a break. We'll throw to a break. Otherwise, I'll filibuster. Go, go, go. Do your thing. Okay, I'll keep going. So, Minnesota, by shedding 10 million, trying to find, is there more? This is hilarious. So I wonder if this has happened. Does this ever happen on ESPN where somebody just had to solo? This happened once I did a rewatchables, and I forgot. I brought the wrong iPad out, and the iPad ran out of batteries, and I had to leave the stage and run back and get the other iPad while Van Lathen and Chris Ryan filibuster. But house locking out his own kid. This is borderline child abuse by House, honestly. I'm glad you guys got to witness this. This is Father Joe House. I can't find any more information about this trade. Their house. I couldn't find any more information. In America, just decided you're a terrible father. Okay. We're back. Are you back?

He wasn't really locked out.

Parent corner. Pascal Siakam, three for 146 or Rando, three for 100. What do you got?

Those are both very fair contracts and both those guys. I mean, really, let's take 10 seconds to commend Pascal Siakam on the season.

Really? This season, playing really hard.

Exactly.

I watched Indiana last night. I know they're tanking, but they're not tanking. Team was trying to win and was super competitive and was really upset that they didn't beat Houston.

One of the hardest teams to gamble on, the United States.

Yeah, it's a stay away. It's a stay away. Number 45, another guy who's played himself back onto the list, LaMelo Ball. Four years, 168 million. The Hornets have won seven in a row, and he has gone from maybe being in the vicinity of Trey Young and John Moran as a trade asset to, I think, maybe shedding that and is a big part of what Charlotte does. I just think when you combine with how popular he is in Charlotte, I just don't... I think he's moved himself in the top 50 house.

I was prepared to fight this one as well, but there is a nucleus there.

Four guys that really play well together.

And those lineups, the five-man.

Diabate?

He's an important part of it, Paul. Yeah.

You're really rattled. You're rattled from being screamed up by your son, I can tell.

Everything's good.

Next three, 44, 43, 42. Dylan Brooks, Zubatz, Austin Reeves, all with really good deals. Brooks is 21 and 19 for the next two years. Zubats is in the 18 to 21 range, and Reeves just has 14 this year and he's getting paid next year. Would that be the order for you? Brooks, then Zubats, then Reeves. Reeves is going to get paid this summer is the problem.

I don't think it's a problem. I mean, this seems super fair to me. I feel like Zubatz is going to fetch something meaningful potentially in this upcoming trade deadline.

You hear his name- Yeah, the Duhgarland for Harden. Dylan Brooks being number 44 in a trade value list, I think would have been 500 to one odds two years ago.

In five years from now, we might look back and say, Holy cow, that was insane.

I'm still watching Phoenix games being unable to comprehend how they're this good. Jalen Green has done nothing this year, right? They basically have two guys that you would have counted on, and then a bunch of awesome role players who play really hard, and it works. I don't really understand it. We only have two sons on the list. Number 41 is Aaron Gordon, who is- Did you apologize to Ishmael yet? I'm not going to apologize to Ishmael. Did he apologize to me last year for killing our son's overbet when we bet on them to win 50 plus games? It's a year-to-year thing. The lead goes up and down. He apologized to me last year.

I had them as over this year.

Did you go over with them?

Of course, yeah.

I just thought that- You're Mr. Over.

No, I'm going to get killed on a couple.

Aaron Gordon, number 41. He's three for 103. Good contract. I wish we knew he was playing all the time, but I also think he's so essential to Denver. It's not like they'd be like, Oh, we'll trade him. Number 40, Kevin Durant or number 39, Kawhi Leonard are the last two in this group. Durant is three for 144. Kawhi is two for 100. Plus, you get to learn about planting trees if you have Kawhi in your team.

Carbon footprint.

Big tree guy, really cares about the environment. My question for you, do you think Houston, knowing what they know now, do you think they wish they hadn't done anything and instead would be doing the godfather offer for Yannis right now versus going in last June for KD? Do you think they would want to mull it on that deep down if you got Raphael Stone drunk at a hotel bar at 2: 00 in the morning and be like, Come on, be honest. Now we know, would you rather just kept the assets and made a Yana Smith?

So this season, they would still had Dylan Brooks and Jalen Green. Did they give up Cap?

They gave up the number 10 pick, too.

Oh.

Your center that you wanted who's in the G League, tough Tough one for your scouting.

Malawak.

Malawak. But it's interesting because now it'd be harder for them to pull the trade off. They'd have to put... They could have had green as the contract in it. Now they'd have to put one of their good guys. So I don't really know the answer, and it doesn't seem like you do either.

I don't know the answer.

If you were a Houston fan, would you be happy with this current outcome?

Only if Steven Adams wasn't hurt.

That's the problem. But he He got hurt every year. Is it a shocker, Steven Adams got hurt?

Well, okay, FVV and Steven Adams. Yeah, that combo was tough. When it was this...

Right. They had FVV before that trade.

Yeah.

Are you okay with Kauai at number 39?

Yeah. I mean, you know.

Yes, he said, sadly.

Well, what are you going to do? He's on pace to... He's only played 60 games once in the last six years, and he's on pace to play less than 60 games again this year.

And when he plays- He's probably been one of the three best guys in the league for the last seven weeks. When he plays- So I can't not have him in the top 40.

I'm with you. I'm not even arguing it.

All right. Group I is called. That last group was, sorry, we're pocket committed here. Fox, Ananovi, Siakam, Randall, Ball, Brooks, Zubatz, Reeves, Gordon, Durant, and Kauai. Big group. Next group, Group I. If you're dangling a reckless Bane Bridges type overpay, sure, we'd love to talk. Number 38, Franz Wagner. Number 37, Bam out of bio. This is the highest he's ever been on one of these lists. He's usually in the 20s. Number 36, Trey Murphy. Number 35, Lorri Marketing, and number 34, Derek White, who is going to make four years, $118 million over this year in the next three. So he's under 30 a year. Trey Murphy also has a good contract, 4 4 1 12. Bam is at 37 this year, and then three years, 161 million for a guy who's shooting under 50% field goal and feels like he's worse than he was two years ago offensively. And then Franz and Lory marketing are on big basically max deals. So any of those names jump out to you.

Well, here's my proposal to you. I would take this entire group and put them either in J or K. I I look at LaMelo Ball and Trey Murphy. Charlotte's not doing that. They hang up the phone immediately.

Trey Murphy making $20 million less, though? Trey Murphy at $25 I have in LaMelo Ball at 45.

They're getting what they pay for with LaMelo. I bet them to make the playoffs. I think we're going to see if he stays healthy- He's been hurt all the time. I know. Well, that's right. That was a bad example.

No, I think that's why he's in that group. How about Frons?

Let's do Frons in LaMelo ball then. Speaking of guys who can't stay healthy.

Frons has been hurt twice. You can argue that Frons should be in the previous group. I think that's fair. I can move him.

Bam, you can move two groups back as far as I'm concerned. I understand the immeasurable impact defense-wise, and they did this experiment of playing at the fastest pace in the NBA, Miami, with the way they started the season. But where the hell are they now? And he's diminished his own trade value.

So here would be the counter on Bam. He's playing on a team that doesn't really have a single player in their roster who would be like, tonight I'm going to make Bam out of bio better. Right? Agreed. What would he be like on a team? What would he be like with a real guard? What if he was with Donovan Mitchell? That'd be a great team for him. Somebody like an explosive guard that could create space for him. I just think he's on a weird team. Cleveland will be a great team for him. We'll go for that group. I'll move Franz back. Out of bio, Murphy, Markanin, Derek White, and The Derek White case is just... There's just nobody in the league like him right now. When he's out there, and this has been the case for years and years, the lineups are just better and more favorable. He just knows where to go, what to do, how to play. He's an unbelievable defensive player. I think he's in the running for top two all defense teams this year. And he's just additive. He can't be one of the best two guys on your team, but he can be the third best guy.

I'm not going to say one bad thing about him. He delivered a chip to you guys. He was the most important player.

We're hitting a really fun part of the TradeValue pod now. 33 guys left. Group H, two guys. Let me save you some time. Fuck no. My word. We can swear on Netflix. They just ran the rip. Those guys are swearing at each other for two hours. Number 33, Cedric Howard. Number 32, Brandon Miller. This is a rare type of player, Brandon Miller. We've had these guys throughout the years, these guys that they're not as good as you want them to be, but you don't care. You watch them and like, that guy might be... Ray Allen was like this for a while. Ray Allen ended up having a great career. Yeah. But these guys that you just watch them and you're like, Man, I'd fucking kill someone for that jump shot. Man, that guy could have 50 tonight. Oh, my God. It's so effortless, everything that dude does. He's just so talented, and I love his jump shot. I think that might be my favorite jump shot right now. Wow. Is anybody you'd have above him? Your favorite jump shot? Yeah, I think it is. It's really great. It's like an old-school, awesome, awesome, awesome fucking jump shot.

Every time he shoots, I think it's going in. If he's open, I just assume it's going in.

And it's surprising when it doesn't.

Yeah, I really like him. It's pretty good. Coward is just, wow.

So that's also part of the Memphis- Have you seen him in person? I have not. I did not go to Wizards, Memphis.

Well, I mean, now he's probably the best player on the roster.

It's now a team that it's Jalen Wells and Courd, right?

Yeah. Jalen Welles is a role player. He could be good. Yeah, maybe. But they're in the full tank. They have their eyes on the prize now. So that would be a good over-under for us. What do they have?

Oh, I already bet it. I bet it under this week, 32 and a half. Thank God.

Off the board now. Fando is like, That over-under is gone. We don't trust whatever that team's up to. Okay.

I think Howard is incredible. He's very dynamic.

You could argue both of those guys could be higher, by the way.

You mean inside the top 30?

On this list. Yeah, I'm just saying you could argue it. I think they're in the right spots. Next group is a one-man group. It's called Group G. Thank God he's on a poison pill, and we can't seriously discuss this. Palo Banquero.

Yeah.

There's no way to fire them. They trade him until the summer. Everything has been said. I think he's taking more shit than any good player this season. There's signs of life with the magic, and sometimes taking shit can be good for a basketball part as we've written this with Jalen Brown.

They need an overhaul in the approach, in their concept, in their scheme.

I tried to say that to legs last week. He's trying to be very delicate. Legs doesn't like coach stuff. I know. I understand. Moses has not done a good job this season.

They also never get their three best players healthy at the same time to play 50 games.

Never. I will say with Palo, he dropped. He was in the top 10 last year when we did this, so now he's 31. That's fair. That tells you all you need to know.

Seems fair to me.

Still feel like he could pull it back and be a top 10 guy again. But the question for me is, if that's the guy that's taking most of your shots, where are you going? Yeah.

I watched it. Went to a Wizards' Magic game. Wizards beat the Magic. What were your takes? Well, he didn't play very much in the fourth quarter. He might not have played at all. He shoots when he touches the ball.

Yeah.

And it doesn't matter where he is.

Group F, this is a Group F, this is a unique situation and I'm hanging up. Number 30, Tyrese Hallebert. Number 29, Jason Tatum. I have no idea where to put these guys. Obviously, they're not getting traded. Obviously, nobody's trading for them.

Right. We can keep moving.

Group B, budding, but expensive. Almost franchise guys. Almost. Really interesting category here with the almost franchise guys, the not quite franchise guys. You and I both have the same definition of a franchise guy. You need to guarantee me 45 to 50 wins if you're on my team to be a true franchise guy, in my opinion, or at least have the potential to do that. I don't think any of these three guys do it. This is such a good category. These names are so good. Number 28, Jalen Williams, another guy that's dropped. Number 27, Scottie Barnes, having a great year in Toronto. Number 26, Evan Mowby, who has also dropped.

It's a great category and absolutely perfect grouping to have the three of them together, all of them inside the top 30.

All making big money.

Deserve it, too.

All making salaries in the mid-forties. So you're not getting deals anymore. They're not their second contract guys, and they're probably the second best guy in an awesome team. In Jalen Williams' case, we know for a fact. In Moby's case, we know for a fact. In Barnes, we'll see.

He might be the top guy. He might be.

Who?

Barnes.

But top guy on a finals team?

Probably not. No.

He's the number two guy on the finals team. Okay. Group D. Some good either ors in this group. We're down in the top 25. Group D. Number 25, Dylan Harper. Number 24, VJ Edgecom. Who hangs up faster? The Sixers. Sixers or the Spurs?

The Sixers. The Sixers.

I think the Spurs hang up faster. But I still had Edge come ahead of them. Yeah, Harper fits more where they're going.

That's fine. I mean, I think he gets the benefit, Harper.

Actually, the Sixers hang up faster because they already have Maxi. That's what I just said. Yeah, I think they hang up simultaneously. It's almost like a 24 A and B. No, we both hang up.

We're not interested. No, thank you.

We had a conversation about whether this was too high for Harper.

I'm not sold that this is the right spot for him.

You want to make the case or you're just going to be a wuss?

Well, only in the sense that I think VJ Edgecombe is way ahead of Harper, not even close in terms of the value and impact. And the proof of concept comes in the form of all of the clutch minutes that VJ Edgecom has played and propelling that team to the wins that they have. There was no concept of that Sixers team coming into the season that he was going to be playing the crunch time minutes with the big S on his chest and taking very confident shots, shots that make sense of the offense, the last four minute shots. He's in a class of his own. Honestly, I understand why Cooper Flag is going to win Rookey of the Year if he doesn't get hurt again. But I have VJ Edgecombe in the conversation for sure.

Wow. I think that was your audition for being on an ESPN show.

What are you talking about?

Cooper Flag and Knipple have been better than Edgecom.

In what situations?

Offensively, Edgecom- It just offensively Edgecom.

That's what it's for the first 30 games.

It was a Knippel's fault.

Edgecom elevated the situation.

I love Edgecom. I'm not going to argue the other side of Edgecom. He elevated the situation. Offensively, I think he's in an unbelievable spot where offensively, he literally doesn't have to worry about doing anything because he has a right now healthy Joel Embiid with Tyrese Maxi on his team, averaging 60 points a game. He didn't have- Anything he does is a bonus.

He didn't have Embiid at the very beginning, and they weren't playing Mbiet at the very beginning.

You made the key point. He seems to really show up in the last three, four minutes. You can feel him in the game. He's great at like, I'm not really involved in this play, but I'm going to figure out how to get involved. I'm going to run to the basket from the blind side and try to see if I can tip a ball, anything. Totally agree. Then defensively, can do whatever he wants. I love Edgecom. I love Dylan Harper. My only regret with Dylan Harper was I just wish he had more minutes. I know why the minutes aren't there, but the team's almost too good for him. But I think ultimately, it would benefit him because he's going to be in these playoff series in a couple of months.

I would have him behind a whole ton of guys that you have him ahead of.

He still will remember me finally on my Dylan Harper number 25.

I would push him 20 places back. 2026, Harper is not wowing anybody.

Okay. You're going against the guy who told everyone in July that Con Canipple was going to be in the 2028 Olympic team. Just warning you. Number 23 in the APERN friendly Untouchables, Jalen Johnson. Five years, 150 million. One of the better margins in the league and has been really good. I wish his team was more consistent. You're the best guy in the team. I need you to win a couple of games in a row and then not do the thing where you win two or three in a row and you start getting excited and then you stink the next game.

There might be a coaching situation there, too.

With Red Glasses, Quinn?

Why are they so inconsistent? Why are they so underwhelming?

They killed the Celtics last week, and it was like, Here they go. And then I think they lost two games later to somebody terrible.

They just He didn't get healthy at the same time and go on a run.

One thing with Jalen Johnson, unbelievable that he wasn't a lottery pick. Remember he had that weird Duke season and he left early, and he got the stink on him a little bit. But that guy not being in the lottery is nuts.

Worked out for him.

Another either or. Number 22, Jalen Duren, or number 21, Alpern Senguun. Senguun makes five for 185 as his contract because he already maxed up. Duren has not been maxed up yet. So Duren's on a rookie deal. And that could be the argument if you want to have Duren ahead of Sengun. Sure. That he's cheap. But I love Schengen. Every game, he almost gets in a fight with somebody now. The UFC-Turkey side is really starting to come out.

See, I have Schengen up in the next group, the Group C. I would have him- You would have him next to Chet? Yeah, I sure would. Yes, I would. Yes.

I think- So you'd have on number 17?

Yeah, that class.

Well, let me read the next four guys, and you tell me if you still feel that way. Number 20, former Wizard, Denny Avdia, who has the best contract in the entire league. Three years, $40 million for an NBA player, potentially.

I'm not going to say a single bad thing about Denny. I'm just going to make the observation. His best use is high use. He needs the ball to be this version of himself. So how many situations can he have the ball? At least this revelation of him- Being on a 500 team makes sense for him to have that ball all the time. But if it's a 55-win team- Where he can have the ball all the time. And he's constantly going downhill. He's a downhill player. So he's a specific type. Again, love him. Love him. And look at Washington's explanation for why they had to trade him when they did. A little side eye, I will confess. I'm not 100% I do think ultimately this group of kids, the timeline that Washington has. But man, this version of Denny is really something.

People seem to be relatively surprised he was an All-Star. I mean, to me, It was like Denny Aldia made it. It was like, Yeah, do you watch fucking basketball? To me, he's still in the OMBA conversation. He did get hurt last week, so he's had some back issues. Number 19, Stefan Castle. Number 18, Connipal. Number 17, Amen Thompson. This is probably my favorite grouping of the entire list. I think Thompson has to be first out of those three. Connipal versus Castle is a great argument. Knappel, you get an extra year of him on the rookie contract. I honestly can't believe how good Canipel is. I can't believe it. I can't believe the shit he's doing in these games. He's getting hard baskets in Four minutes left, high game. He's getting physical, takes a guy into the paint, up fake, puts his shoulder against him, gets a 15-footer. Professional baskets that 29-year-olds make. And then Castle, what he did to Durant last week was one of the great things anyone's done all year. Just absolutely got in his shit and shut down one of the greatest scores in the history of the league. Just shut him down.

I don't care. He's 37.

Literally a joy to watch.

Could not care more game to game. Maybe cares the most I wouldn't say cares the most, but if you rate guys 1-100 for how much you care about each game, he's probably 100.

It's not time for us to do this, but it's going to be really fascinating as the playoff approach, we try and fork cast how San Antonio is going to perform in the playoff. Because the conundrum is, as hard as they play, can they go up another level? Can they go up another level against a team that plays them over a seven-game series? Do they have the ability ability to change?

It's the old football thing. Are you the regular season really good team, or do you have the other... Can you up at one level for the playoffs?

The way that they came back against Houston last week and just took that game away and Bullied. Bullied Houston in the fourth quarter.

The history of the league says bet on the team that's a year too soon than a year too late. And that if there's signs of what they did last week against Houston, bet on that, because in the playoffs, that tends to blossom in an even bigger way. Castle Knippel Thompson, that's about as- Really fun. 20 years ago, all three of those guys probably were in the top 10. Group C, the not apron friendly Untouchables. And there's one argument to have, but let me read all the guys. All these guys have big contracts. Number 16, Chad Holmgren, Jamal Murray, Jalen Brown, Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson, number 11. And the reason he's number 11 is because by far he has the best contract. He is four years for 156. You're basically saving 10 million a year by having Jalen Brunson on your team. And I think that swings it. I have all these guys near each other. Does that order look right to you or would you raise your hand?

The only player that I'd like to have a conversation about is Chet because this group of players right here are all guys that could absolutely We have proof of concept. Jamal Murray helped Denver win a championship. Crucial, crucial player to Denver winning a championship. Jalen Brown, crucial player to the Celtics winning a championship. Devon Booker, crucial player in the NBA- To make the finals. Finals, right? Jalen Brunson, sacrifice, however you want to characterize whatever happened with this deal, that whatever accommodations were made, accommodated a situation where the Knicks have a genuine chance to once again be in the Eastern Conference Finals and make a push to get into the- That would be one thing why he would be more intradable, because obviously things were said and things were promised. Not a knock. I think he's perfectly placed.

You can't trade him. He's like, But wait a second. What about that meeting I taped?

I don't have Chet Holmgren in this class is all I'm saying.

So it sounds like you want to put Chet Holmgren and Schengen together.

Yeah. Honestly, I'd rather have Schengen over at Holmgren.

Wow.

I think over the course of their entire careers, Shingun has—I'm going to knock on wood, I don't want to jinks them. Has He has the capacity to avoid injuries that have him out for extended stretches. He plays a very physical brand of basketball that makes him very special in this. Now, I mean, again, Holmgren is different.

Chet's had a couple of injuries already. I guess with Holmgren, the defense and then the metrics that back up his defense, it's way, way up there. But you also feel it when Hartenstein goes out. They were on a little bit of a slide into the Denver game. But on paper, threes and rim protection, that's what you're looking for. All right, we can move. I can move Holmgren back right after. It goes Thompson, Knappel, Castle, then Schengen, Holmgren, then Avdia, then Jalen Dern. I'll do that.

Let me ask this.

I would make Group C would be Jamal Murray, Jalen Brown, Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson. You like that?

Yeah. Yes, that's very fair. Okay.

We're now in the top 10, and we have two groups left. Group B, only if they made us do it. Number 10, Steph Curry, number Yannis and Ted Acupo.

So Yannis is making them do it, and Steph, I guess, won't. I wish he would.

The Steph thing is hard because nobody Would it make sense for San Antonio to trade Steph and Castle for Steph Curry? Of course.

What question is that?

Right. Of course it would. But they can't do it with the cap because one guy makes $7 million a year and the other guy makes 50. That's where... He makes so much money that it throws off. No trade is realistic for him, is my point.

For Steph Curry?

Because Golden State is not trading him for Brunson Mitchell, Booker, Brown, or Murray. Why would you at that point? You're just going sideways. You're not really trading him for one of these younger assets like Castle, Knippel, Thompson, just because... What does that do for those teams? I don't know.

Steph Curry on Houston?

For Thompson, FVV?

I would consider it. Like, Ammon is untouchable to me, nearly.

You just said you would consider it, though.

It was fucking Steph Curry.

Ports of Rant would be so bummed out. I'd be like, What the fuck? Now I get to hear that. I couldn't win a title without Steph. I'm trying to fix this, guys. I'm trying to fix this Steph thing. And then Yannis, if he had a contract that everyone you felt good about. And a situation that everybody felt like he was staying in, he'd be higher than number nine. Sure.

Right. He's going to get traded, so he can't be...

He will not be traded for any of these next eight guys. This is Group A, completely and utterly untouchable. Number 8, Tyrese Maxi, and number 7, Kate Cunningham.

Two really impressive seasons.

Hang-ups. Way to go. Hey, I'm calling about Kate. I'm just hanging Hey, what's to do with Maxi? I hung up.

Here, I need to do it with both hands. We need both those guys healthy for the NBA playoffs. We need those guys in the Eastern Conference Finals. Or wherever the Sixers end up.

Max, he's hit a point where I'm not even sure who he reminds me of in NBA history.

Oh, wow.

He's almost like... I was almost thinking of other of sports. He reminds me of Jamir Gibbs.

It's the speed.

It's the speed, but it's like these little stretches, these four-minute stretches he has where he just completely takes over the game and the other team is helpless, and you know he's doing it.

He's making every bucket.

It reminds me of those lions drives where Gibbs is like, Here's Gibbs again for 12. Here's Gibbs on the wheel route for 25. And the other team is like, We can't stop this. Or B. John Robinson when he gets like that. That's who he reminds me of. He had these crazy athlete just taking over a drive. He takes over drives, even though NBA games are obviously different than football. But he'll take over these six minutes stretches. He's done it over and over again. They'll be down 10. And then all of a sudden, Maxi will just hit two threes. He gets a fast break layup and he gets a floater and it's a tie game. And the Philly fans are going nuts. We're like, What just happened? They were down 10. I can't think of any other players like him.

In history?

Yeah. And I'm not saying I'm not putting him up in the pantheon. I'm just saying I don't know what guard was like him that I've watched.

What's artificial intelligence say? That's what we have to ask.

You're going to like Gemini?

I'm in one right now. The historical comp that comes up, speaking of AI, is AI.

Oh, that's interesting. Ai wasn't the shooter that Maxi was.

No, I agree.

I love the AI, and you and I were both... We were on the fucking with AI. Deep, deep AI. Deep, deep defenders of AI. But yeah, he was streaky, but not like Maxi. Maxi is getting the ball off rebounds, and you know he's going to go 80 feet, and he just does it. And the team seems like they were completely surprised by it each time. And then Kade, the stuff he's doing where he's really the only option, they just traded Jade and Ivy today. They finally punted on that.

Playmaker, playmaker. I love. He leads his chest. I can't say enough good things about that dude.

And all the losing that Monte Williams year, just getting kicked in the nuts and kicked in the teeth for four months feels like made him and a couple of other guys in those team.

So they have Herder now that solves one of their shooting open questions.

Maybe.

Well, it addresses it.

Maybe you flip Herder into something else.

I still think that Michael Porter Jr.

He doesn't play defense, though. Do you need defense on that team? I think that team has enough team defense.

They're strong. That's what Jalen Durn is for.

After Porter fucked up that Celtics play a couple of weeks ago when we just got a wide open three to tie the game, I was like, I don't know. All right. Here we go. Most controversial moment of the column, of the podcast. I don't even know. Am I doing a column or a podcast? The next two guys are number 6 and number 5. Number 6, Luka Donchik. Number 5, Cooper Flag.

Yeah, I mean, obviously.

Obviously what? Say it. Obviously what?

All you can do, I think there are many, many teams in the league that would value many of the players that we've already gone through higher Cooper flag.

On a rookie deal making $11 million a year at age 19. That's the argument. Doing things- That's the argument. Doing things at his age that nobody's done in the history of the league. That's the argument. Not even Kobe Bryant.

Right. No, I get it.

Not even Kevin Garnett.

It is the evolutionary. This is the version. This is how we've gotten so lucky as we've gotten older. The way the league has developed, the way these kids come in more and more and more ready. We lived through a whole history of kids that jumped straight from high school into the pros. Now, you have to go through one year of college, but they're very young in their first year of college because of the way that the Yeah, and he skipped a year high school, so he was even a year younger. They're all reclass. I was trying to think about it. Isn't that what it's called reclassifying or whatever?

Well, he reclassed during the season because he went from being a really good rookie to a fucking animal in the last two months. I cannot believe what I watched. I watched the two Mavs games, the 49 pointer against Charlotte. And then I watched that other game the next morning.

It was Houston, wasn't it?

Yeah, 37, whatever he did. I cannot believe. I honestly cannot believe how much better he is than he was at the start of the year. I can't believe it. I was texting with Legler about it because Legler did the Houston game. I was texting the next day. I was like, I don't understand. This guy now has a finishing move where he goes left full speed and does this craning lefty layup off the glass that he makes, which, by the way, it took five years for Jason Tatum to even have that shot, and he misses it like half the time, or he missed it before he got hurt. So he's got that as a finishing move. He has this hesitation move where it seems like he's gone to the basket. He stops and then he keeps going that I haven't seen anyone stop yet. He's got this move where he goes into the paint, spins around and does a little one-handed 12-footer. He has that. He's a pull-up jumper already. That's why. And he's running the team. He's playing point forward for them. Jason Tatum couldn't do this until year five. I'm dumbfounded by this. This guy was supposed to be this awesome two-way glue guy, had some offense, but was just impactful all over.

This guy's an elite offensive player already. If you actually watch those games, the shit he was doing was impossible. They couldn't defend him. So that's my Cooper flag case.

Houston couldn't defend him.

Houston had a men Thompson on him, and he was going by him.

Because he can start and stop in a way. That pull-up jumper makes him, you have to respect it, now he's by you. And he's by you with both hands.

The full-speed lefty. He can fake the full-eventing, come up. He can go back, come up. He can do the lefty, and then he can spin into the right-hand. I just can't believe what I'm watching. On top of, he's a really good defensive player already. Like, really good.

He rebalance. I think he's fine defensively. That's the part of it that makes me.

Well, I think he should be a stretch four, but they're playing him. He's guarding like guards half the time. He should be guarding like Pascal Siakam and Jalen Brown and people like that.

I agree. That's the only... That would be the portion of it where Well, so what's interesting about this is Cooper Flag is five and Luca is six on this list.

Luca makes five times as much money and he's eight years older. They don't get Cooper Flag unless they fuck up this Luca thing. I was texting with our friend Jason Galgar about this DiehardMaps fan. Oh, yeah. I was like, Dude, you just have to admit this worked out. It was horrible. It traumatized the city. It almost ruined basketball in Dallas until you ended up with Flag. I would just rather have Flag, I think in a weird way. But he was like, That's fine, but we built this team. He was like, I see the case, but we built this team for Luka, and we made the finals, and we had a chance to win with Luka. He was saying, What bums out the Mass fans because they love Luka, is that now Luka's on a mediocre team again, and now he's two years away from being where he was two years ago, and he just lost all this time. So I think they just really wanted Luka to win a title like they wanted Dirk. So I get it.

All that's super fair. I agree with every single word that he said, especially the part about the Lakers still being two years away from having the right players around him for him to be the best version of himself. And I will say, having the good fortune of having great seats to see him, he's in shape. He looks good.

Yeah.

He's moving good. He was motivated because he knew he was going to get that triple double in the first half against Washington.

Flag. Yeah. Holy shit. He was 18 for the first two months of the year. I just can't believe what we're watching. Yeah. You should not be able to do this for your 20. You should not be able to run NBA teams, playing out of position, and getting every shot you want and doing all the things that he does.

He's arriving with the brain is the thing. That's why you have to live with it.

I also like that in two years, he's made himself so much better in all these different in a way. Clearly, he just works his ass off on his game. He's added all these different things that I just don't even think he had at Duke, but what do I know? Number 4, Anthony Edwards. Number 3, Shay Gilgis Alexander. Number 2, Nikola Jokic. Which, number one, Victor Wembedyama. Anything off on that final four for you?

No.

Stealth, you could make... If we were on first take and you wanted to just zag, you could do the All right, you have Victor Wembedyama first. Is he going to play 20 games in a row? Am I going to get that? Am I going to get nine months out of this guy? Is he going to stay healthy? Is he going to be healthy four years from now? You would do that thing. I'm cool betting on the One Foot Seven guy who's the generational freak. I'm still going to bet on that. He's like 22.

Well, and part of what should be encouraging for Spurs fans and for Wembe fans is you can see him putting on weight this season. He has developed a little bit.

But not in the Yang-Ming, this actually feels like it might be hurting you. He's still moving awesome.

It's making sense. So if That's the path that he's on at his height and his body can hold up and he can just grow in to becoming the version of the tough guy. I mean, he's already pretty tough. He is showing us that he's up for guys getting into him, getting into his shit. I love how Oklahoma City, he just enjoys torturing Chet. He's made it a pet project of his.

So That's really why you wanted to drop Chet into the '20s.

Wemby's declared war on Chet. And he's made him his bitch. I think Wemby pretty clearly has done it successfully.

Chet is the defending champion. Well, that's it. Not a lot of drama for the end unless you wanted to have a Jokuj versus Alexander debate.

For what?

No. Yeah.

No.

We're not doing that. Okay. And before we go, because I've had you for two hours. I had a great time, by the way.

Thank you. I've enjoyed it. Did we somehow manage to not... You don't have to have any British tabloids chasing you because that was like, what was two years ago we did the Trade Value Column. Yeah, That's true.

That's true. Talked about. I'd also like to shout out Cooper Flag's mom, long-time diehard Celtics fan. I would encourage you to read in the CBA agreement that you don't have to sign a second deal with the team that drafted you. You could just take it to free agency and bet on yourself. I don't think anything would be more meaningful to the Flag family and to the region of New England for him to play on the Boston Celtics with his second contract. I'd like to shout out her. I hope she's doing great. Hopefully, she'll come to All-Star Weekend. I can maybe get a meal with her and talk to her and maybe become friends with her.

I don't want to prolong this show, but I am interested in how does Dallas has to move up his timeline a little bit, doesn't it?

With how he looks now?

Yeah. Yeah. You have Lively and you have Cooper Flag.

Right.

What else?

Well, Lively is out for the whole year.

No, I understand. But you're talking about timeline. You're talking about what are the assets? How are you going to build around this kid? What's the team?

Can I ask you one question that I was looking at for the play-in bets?

I'm listening.

Dallas is 33 to one to make the play-in. Right now, hold on, let me find out. Right now, they are the 12 seed. They're 19 and 30. There's three games behind Portland, who has 27 losses, and four games behind the Clippers. And watching Dallas, they're They win all these games, right?

They barely lost to the Lakers.

Minnesota beat them. They barely lost to Charlotte. They barely lost to Houston. They beat the Knicks. Gold State, they beat Utah twice. They're a 500 team with a guy who's getting better, and maybe Davis comes back. I just thought 33 to one. I thought it was crazy. What if Portland tanks?

Is Davis coming back? I don't know. When's Kyrie coming back?

Hopefully soon. Unless they're tanking.

They can't score at the end of the games.

He's trying.

He. Singularly.

Here's the other thing. Since Since the start of this podcast where we've had multiple trades and we sorted out the 80 best trade value guys and even moved some of the lists around a little bit, it seems like the Timberwolves have moved all of their forces into Yannis Island, and they're trying to invade.

Oh, wow. For this season?

Yeah. That seems to be what's happening here. Where we have the They got money there by getting rid of Conley. They have a little more flexibility, and they seem to be rounding up. Now, what they would have to do to get Yannis, it would involve Randall, it would involve Nas Reed, and D. Frincenzo, probably, to make the contracts work. They'd probably have to be a third team where somebody gets one of those guys, and you basically just try to end up with Yannis and Ant and Gober, right? Just patch around Maybe get some buyout guys, but I would think that would be their plan. They have that Berenger who I really like, too, that rookie, the French guy. Maybe he could be in the trade. They have some swaps, I guess they can do, but My question is, if Yana says to the Bucks, I want a title for you. I'd like to play with Anthony Edwards and try to win another title. I paid my dues there. I've been here 13 years. I've been great for the community. I've been an awesome guy. Can you trade me to Minnesota? Does Milwaukee then have an obligation to do that?

No.

That's how I feel, too. No. They could say, We'll try to do it. Yes. But the offer has to be Solid enough.

Yeah. I mean, do we think that Portland in their deal with Milwaukee, got back enough for Dame?

What do you mean?

When they traded Dame to Milwaukee.

Portland got enough back. They got some kick-ass Milwaukee pics for the end of the decade that they were banking on, Hey, maybe this Yana's thing won't be working out five years from now, we'll have some pics. So that trade... Remember that big argument about their offer versus the Miami offer?

That was never an argument.

That was just Miami people. Well, it was an argument for a lot of people who didn't follow basketball. Yeah, so Minnesota. And then I'd never have thought Golden State has enough, and I don't know where he'd want to go there. If he's getting traded, it's got to be to a place that wins the title. Cleveland, as we mentioned earlier, especially now that Memphis has this trade exception, maybe they can stick salary there and figure out Mowly. And I still think it'll never come out if Boston's involved, but I'm still watching what Boston does.

The East makes more sense to me than the West still, because the West is so loaded and by my forecasting, it's going to remain loaded for a while yet. Right. So that's where you put yourself into.

Boston can go really stealth if they wanted to put Jalen on the table, which, as I'm on the record as saying Jalen and Tatum, I hope they retire as Celtics together. But I'm just saying, The Celtics could get the organization. The organization is basically Chisholm and Brad, and nobody else would know. And if they really wanted to kick the tires on Jalen and Yannis as part of a package with some pics, and then Milwaukee could send Jalen somewhere else. You're at least having lunch about that, talking about that. If you and I were running the Celtics, we would probably have lunch. You would probably over eat.

I would definitely over eat.

And then that's what happened. By the way, chicken parm last night, it was great. Kind of broke my carb thing a little bit.

Because you knew we're going to be together at the end of this week. You better get ready. I know.

I'm prepared to be disappointing. Anywhere that we go to eat. To be healthy as you look at me in disgust. We'll see.

Wait till we see what comes to the table, whether or not you can resist it.

We'll be at Celtics Heat Friday, and then Bob Coosy, the ceremony on Saturday for our school, Holy Cross. We get to watch them dedicate the court and meet the Coos. I'm so excited. And apparently, maybe Jalen Coker.

Hey, love that guy.

Our guy Jalen Coker. The other thing is we're going to do our Super Bowl pick at the end of Thursday's episode. So it'll be like a 20 minutes segment. You have Fairway rolling coming this week. You're recording. Get coffee.

I'll be good to go.

Unlock your kid out of the closet. I have- We can go off. I have rewatchables. Just went up wild things so you can find on Spotify, on Netflix, wherever you get your podcast. Next week's episode, Ace Ventura.

Oh, a great one.

Pet Detective. That is our next episode on Monday.

Iconic.

That is on Netflix, by the way. Both of the Ace Ventura movies are on Netflix. You don't say. We have not done that one yet.

That's amazing.

So we banned that one out. Anyway, thanks to Geha and Eduardo and everybody at The Ringer as well. Don't forget to read theringer. Com for all the updated stuff. Enjoy the 48 hours leading to the Trade Deadline. House, thank you. See you in a couple of days. We did it.

See you, buddy.

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