Transcript of ADHD, Autism & AuDHD: Trauma, Masking and Late Diagnosis with Ellie AuDHD Capstick

Welcome to Notes from the Edge, where we have the conversations we should have been having all along. We talk about the things that we're not talking about. I'm your host, Lisa Lacey, writer, trauma educator, executive advisor, and author of the upcoming memoir Notes from a Certified Madwoman. Welcome to the edge. Hey, hey, my friends, welcome back to another episode of Notes from the Edge. I am your host, Lisa Lacey, and this is the place we have the conversations we should have been having all along. Guess what? You're not talking about it. So today we're gonna— so imagine spending decades thinking, why is this so much harder for me than it seems to be for everyone else. You're exhausted. You rehearse conversations over and over. You constantly adjust yourself to make people feel more comfortable. Criticism feels enormous. You feel like you understand everybody else while they don't take the time to understand you. And then one day someone gives you language for it—

ADHD.

Today's guest is Ellie, an ADHD educator, podcast host, and founder of Ellie ADHD, where she talks openly about ADHD, autism, trauma, masking, burnout, relationships, and the everyday reality of being a late-diagnosed neurodivergent adult. And she does it without pretending that it's either a tragedy Or a cute collection of quirky personality traits. There are funny parts, but there are maddening parts, and we're not going to avoid those today. There are parts that nobody puts on an inspirational Instagram graphic, and today we're going there. Ellie, welcome to Notes from the Edge, my friend. How are you today?

Thank you so much. I love that. I loved all of it. I was sitting on the edge of my seat.

Oh, me too. Me too. Well, I have been looking forward to this conversation since we got connected and disconnected and then connected again. But this is Notes from the Edge, my friend. So we're just gonna dive right in. So let's start before you got your diagnosis. So before you had language for ADHD, autism, or AudiHD, Yeah. What explanation had you created for, for your own life? Why did you think things felt harder, or did you even know that it felt harder?

My whole life since I could walk or talk, uh, was horrible. I was bullied consistently. School was horrible. I felt like I couldn't do anything that any of the other children were doing, and I got constant criticism because of it. At home, I couldn't do anything that my sisters were doing. I would do it differently, I would think differently. So the whole way through my life, and apparently is actually a stat that neurodivergent people experience 20% more criticism than their neurotypical counterparts. Now, without even realizing, my parents had done that my whole life. They're lovely people, but they never mean to, because in comparison with my sisters, they just thought, oh, you know, let's, let's explain it more to Ellie, let's tell Ellie she's doing it wrong. But Unfortunately, then you would carry that narrative with you your whole life. And it doesn't just happen at home. It happens throughout your whole life. There's an added layer as I suffered childhood sexual abuse as a child. So basically, I thought a lot of my quirks or things that I didn't understand or a lot of my trauma was down to that. But it didn't quite fit with other people that I'd met that had gone through the same thing.

And there was a lot more stuff going on for me. So I still didn't feel like I fit in anywhere. And then I had my children, and people would— my children are now in their 20s, and people would approach me and say, you know, your children are autistic. And I would be offended because I was like, whoa, you know, that's— I don't know if that's something that you say to people. Now I know, I'm more educated on it. I know it's, it's fine to say it because there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with that at all. It's just a different neurotype. But lo and behold, my children were diagnosed with all kinds of neurodivergences. My dad suddenly started to make sense to me. I'd never understood my dad. In fact, I did understand my dad, but no one else understood my dad. He's a very unusual man. He's very OCD about things. He's very— he brought us up quite militantly, like in an autistic way. We had to do things a certain way, otherwise they can't be done. And everyone else saw that abusive, but I saw that as something that I really understood and something that really made me feel comfortable.

So I even started to understand my dad, and my dad's now started to understand itself. And so it's given me the language that I needed. All of these years I've suffered with things like rejection-sensitive dysphoria, which is in relationships, or in any relationships where you feel like you're going to get rejected, so you act like you're trying to grab onto something really fast and really tight. And I've always suffered with that, and I thought that that was just craziness, and even people around me thought that was craziness. Now I have a name for it and it's RSD and I know it's very normal for people like me to get RSD or anyone in general. I always thought I was lazy because I'd always been told I was lazy, whether that was, you know, people didn't mean to say lazy. My mum never meant any malice with anything she said, but, you know, she'd say, get up and stop being so lazy. I now know it's actually not laziness. It's executive— some of it's laziness, but it's executive dysfunction. And I I'm so passionate because when I had my first set of children that are now in their 20s, I didn't know about neurodivergence.

And when they were presenting signs of neurodivergence, I would try and stop them presenting them signs because I'd think I'm doing the best for them. So I'd say, stop being lazy, don't be like me. Or if I'd see them stimming or something, I'd say, stop doing that, people are going to look at you. And I am so regretful of that because that killed a lot of their confidence. So I am now so, so passionate about teaching parents what to do with their children's neurodivergence and how to channel it, because don't get me wrong, it's not a superpower. It hasn't been a superpower for me. It also, if I could change it, I'm not sure I would because I like who I am and I think a lot of who I am comes from my neurodivergence. It's such a massive part of me. But I just think that people need to, if you're going to send your children to school and your children are neurodivergent, You need to let them know they're not fish like all of the other children in the class, and they can't swim like all of the other children in the class, but that's okay because they can build their own boat and they can get off across the water that way.

But all the time you leave them there in the school without a label, thinking that, why can't I be a fish like all my other friends and like my teachers? That breaks them. So it's better that you teach them the alternative method to make a boat. than to still believe that they're a fish. Because a lot of parents believe, you know, we don't want to pigeonhole our children, and I believed this at first as well. We don't want to pigeonhole our children, we don't want to put a label on it. I can tell you, having a label of neurodivergence has been the best thing that's ever happened to me because I don't— I'm not called Ellie that doesn't make eye contact anymore, Ellie that talks too much, Ellie that's crazy, Ellie that has a meltdown when the light goes on, Ellie that slaps herself in the face. I don't have them labels anymore. I'm Ellie AllDHD, and people always say, is that a way to market yourself? It wasn't. It was just a way because all my life I've had someone call me something, and I decided to take my power back. And actually, it's the only label I'm actually cool with.

Yeah, it does define me, and I'm okay with that. Um, so there, there's me in a nutshell. That was my TED Talk. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Okay, I want to talk about Yeah. Because I think it's something that's not being talked enough about. So tell us about the combination and how that manifests in maybe your everyday life.

Okay, so there's ADHD. So as you know, ADHD can sometimes— and when I say this, and I always put a disclaimer, once you meet one ADHD person, you've met one ADHD person. It's like you saying, I've met a Chinese person, they're all the same, or I've met an English person, they're all the same. No, we're all different. But I'm just saying, for example, ADHD is generally meant to be quite compulsive, quite led by dopamine, quite everything like that. You know, I get a lot of dopamine from things that are novelty. I'm quite impulsive. I'm not very good at managing my money and all of them things. So that's ADHD in a very, very basic nutshell and just my form of ADHD. Autism, and this is again just my form of autism, I need calm, I need routine, I need the light off, I need time by myself. So if you can imagine that ADHD person sits upon this shoulder and the autistic person sits upon this shoulder, and I don't know what the flip I need. I corrected myself. I don't know what the flip I need because one part of my brain is saying, I want to be crazy, I want to act like a drunk teenager, I want to go to the bar.

And then the other half of me is like, I want to stay at home, I want to curl under a blanket. And people are confused because people are like, what one are you, Ellie? And all my life, people, people have failed to understand me, and I failed to understand myself because I want to go out and go to the club, but then I get there and the lights will come on and I'll have a meltdown and I won't understand why. And now I understand why, but I do feel like it's one of the most hardest neurotypes because it's not just the ADHD or the autism, it's 2 complete polar opposites living in the same brain and the same body. And that is my struggle.

Wow, that sounds very, very challenging. 2 complete Polar opposite brain types living in the same body.

It's almost like bipolar. So a lot of the time over the years, and I've been to therapists, and I know a lot of people that have been to therapists, and they say it might be borderline personality disorder, it might be, you know, it might be bipolar, it might be schizophrenia. And a lot of women, specifically women of my age, have been misdiagnosed because it presents as something very, very similar. But that's just because you have them 2 neurotypes. speaking to each other all the time. They, they don't shut up. When I get in bed at night, like, half of me thinks, did the light get turned out? Oh, let me have more of my vape. Oh, what have I got going on tomorrow? And then the other half of me knows I need to sleep. I, I, otherwise I'm going to be no good for 3 days. And there's just— it's a lot. It's a lot. Constant.

Yeah, yeah. Constant, constant, constant rolling in your head.

Yeah.

So I talk constantly about— well, let's, let's back it up a bit because I want to circle back to something you said. And I love that you are bringing attention to the fact that once we have language for why we are and how we are, our life, we have that aha moment because it happened for me at 40 years old.

Yes.

In adult diagnosis rehabilitation center. Um, I went into thinking I had a minor drinking problem and a bad marriage.

Yeah, it attracts us neurodivergent people. But, um, yeah, I've been there too.

So what— tell us what that moment was like, that moment of, oh, okay, now I at least make sense to myself. So I can start articulating myself to the people who care enough to try and understand.

It's, it's a lot of relief, a lot of grief, and a lot of validation. So the grief is you feel a bit angry and a bit failed because you think, shit, if people would have given me them accommodations over the years like they would have given everyone else with a disability, my life may have been a lot better. So that's the kind of grief thing, and I could have got to very different places if I'd been supported more, but that's what happens. Relief, because I know I'm not crazy and, you know, I wasn't getting things wrong and I do have my good points. So there's grief, relief, and validation. And also there was a lot of shame and guilt for me because I'd already started on that motherhood journey with my children who were neurodivergent. I'd already tried to take all of them neurodivergent traits out of them because I knew that that didn't serve me well in life, so I didn't want them to repeat the same pattern. So I felt a lot of guilt because I got hip to neurodivergence and then I was like, oh, we just need different methods, we don't need to stamp the whole thing out completely.

And then I started to tell a lot of people around me and a lot of them were like, oh, That makes perfect sense because all of my life I've really struggled. I've had addiction problems with alcohol and cocaine in my life. I've been sober for 11 years now.

Congrats.

I've struggled with so many things, with money, with holding down jobs, but I've always been quite intelligent and quite sociable. I appear very, very sociable, but I'll have this conversation with you now and then I will need to go to bed for a week. this is my ADHD, and then my autism will come out later and go, what the bloody hell was you doing? Like, as soon as I get off the phone to you, I'm gonna think, what did I say to that Lisa? She's gonna think that I'm a crazy person, and I'm gonna overthink everything. Our brain is so used to this hamster wheel that we are so tired from being ADHD. So it does— it comes with relief, grief, validation, and then for me, I am the most— I'm very empathetic, I'm very sympathetic, I'm very justice-led. I'm like an activist about a lot of different things in the world. So as soon as I found that out about myself, I was like, I'll be damned if anyone else goes through this and thinks that they're crazy for 40 years, and I'll be damned if anyone still wakes up in the middle of the night and feels guilty for the way that they parented their children, because I still wake up at 2 AM and beat myself up with more mum guilt than the normal mum.

So I'm not gonna let anyone else, if I can help it, go through that. And I think there's a lot of clinical advice out there from a lot of wonderful people, and I think there's a lot of amazing people on TikTok talking about, oh, I lost my keys, I'm so ADHD. But I don't know if there's that in-between, that kind of approachable person that— I have people come to my, you know, my page and say, hey Ellie, I feel comfortable to ask you, but do you wee yourself with all ADHD? You know, do you, do you pee yourself? Can you not get to the bathroom? People feel comfortable to ask me that, and if I don't know, then I can go and ask someone. And I feel like not everyone can feel comfortable asking a clinical person that. I want to be that down-to-earth person that people can ask. And if you can't ask me and I'm not the right type for you— because sometimes I'm too down to earth, sometimes I'm too talkative, sometimes I swear too much, and that's okay— if I'm not okay for you, I will find you 20 other people that you can talk to instead.

Because we all need someone to help us on this journey.

We do, absolutely. So talk to me about that. Talk to me about support, uh, because when I, when I got out of inpatient rehabilitation, I had read the last page of that really thick chart on the plane, and it said prognosis for recovery poor to none due to lack of familial support. So they were counting me out because of a lack of support. So if anybody is out there right now listening to you and they feel like they're alone, talk to me about how important the right kind of support on this journey is.

I think it's so important, but it's so hard and not always accessible. In the UK, um, to get any kind of diagnosis, you're looking at thousands of pounds or a lot of time on a waiting list. And I also don't think diagnosis is necessarily always the most Always valid. I think you can go for self-diagnosis. I think if you know, you know. I don't think it's a dangerous thing to self-diagnose yourself at all. Um, I think it's, it's very valid that we believe people's self-diagnosis because there's a lot of time on waiting lists. It's very expensive. And I don't know if you know, but people with ADHD cannot fill out forms for shit. You know, I, I went through the form filling out for my ADHD diagnosis, lost the forms. then I filled them out again, forgot to send them back. You know, it took me a long time to get a diagnosis, and this is a typical thing for all ADHD people. So we need to accept people's self-diagnosis first. And also, there are many people out there that you can contact. You don't have to contact always a coach. A coach is amazing.

I work with an amazing coach called Natasha. She's my business partner. But you can also get lots of free advice, lots of resources, and I want to make an accessible accessible support system. So when I first joined Facebook, this wasn't what I intended. I hate putting my picture online. I never had a picture on WhatsApp. I never done public speaking. It just wasn't my thing. I was so underconfident. But when I called myself Ellie AudHD as a joke, people started following me like I was some Pied Piper of AudHD, and it just happened. And then Facebook offered me a subscribers hub, and I thought, Okay, do I take it or do I not? And I wrestled with myself because I don't think that you should have to pay for support. But I actually thought, no, I can put in a lot of work. So now me and my friend, we've got a website and we've also got a subscribers hub on Facebook. And it's literally 99p, or I think that's $1.35 in your money. And it's that a month and you have access to like a whole library. We have one topic a month. This month it was executive dysfunction.

You get sent like a big workbook that you can print that you can feel. Um, and we have support groups 3 times a month. One is hypnotherapy for free, one is just a support group where we meet up on— everything's on Zoom, so it's super accessible. You come, you know, whatever your persuasion, religious belief, gender, everyone's welcome. As long as you aren't hateful to other people, then you're more than welcome in our group. And we have a group of 50,000, a support group on Facebook that I moderate with some amazing moderators, and they're moderators that I've hand-chosen because they are the most just people. I hate any form of injustice, and the thought of anyone coming into my group and being taken advantage of or, you know, not treated equally, I can't sleep because of it. So I, I had my group for ages, and then I picked the most amazing people in my group to be moderators, and it's, it's going really well. But we are a vulnerable community, neurodivergent people. In there every day, I have to ban about 25 people, um, because trying to scam constantly, and people will take advantage. But I feel like you need to find your safe place and find your tribe, and that's not always something you want.

I'm autistic, and I can go for a month without seeing people, and that's my happy place— at home with my cats, in my, like, kingdom. That's, that's my happy place. But you don't have to be friends. You can come along to the support group, you can sit with your headphones on And treat it like a podcast. But just to hear them people in the background saying, oh my God, it's really normal to smack yourself in the head when the light comes on. And I'm not saying it's normal, but that's something that I've done, and I have had a meltdown when the light comes on, and I always thought, oh my God, I'm crazy. But now I know it's sensory overload, and it's the way that I dealt with it, and that may be cathartic for some people. So if you'd like to come to our support group, don't feel like you have to have your camera on. or anything like that. You just show up and turn off and just listen, and you go whenever you want. I don't like to put rules on anything. I am the most easiestgoing person ever. The thing that I found hard the most about being in charge of this community is at the beginning I used to be able to get back to everyone and give them personal advice, and a lot of people really loved that, and a lot of people really warmed to me.

Now I don't have 5,000 people needing personal advice. I have 50,000 people in my inbox asking me personal advice, and sometimes I'll stay up till 2 AM messaging everyone back that I can because I'm like that. That's inherently in me, that's innately in me. Um, and I've now realized that isn't something that I can do, unfortunately. A lot of people have got upset and said, oh, you don't message back anymore, and I've had to kind of put a whole disclaimer that says I am just one AuDHD person. I am a mother of 4, you know, I work full-time, I'm single, I pay my own bills, and I would love to— I'd love all the time in the world to message everyone back, but unfortunately it's impossible. But as the community grows, there are other people in the community that are messaging each other. I see the most beautiful friendships forming, and neurodivergent people as a whole— and I'm not saying all of them— are a really lovely community because they have a massive sense of justice. Not all of them, but a lot of them have a massive sense of justice, a lot— a massive sense of kindness.

They know what it's like to have been undervalued for all these years. And I must say, the majority of the people I see in the group, I can see them supporting other people the same way that I would support them. So even if you don't want to make friends, pop along, and then you can read what other people write and think, ah, I feel validated because I think for a lot of people that are late diagnosed, the main thing they're coming up with is, oh my God, I've internalized my whole life that I was crazy and there was something wrong with me, and now I realize I'm just normal. And I think that is such a massive thing for people, such a massive thing. When you've internalized the fact that you're rubbish your whole life and you've believed it and people around you have believed it and then you meet other people that you see they're not rubbish and they're the same as you, it, it builds you up so much. And that's what I'm so passionate about.

It revolutionizes everything to know that you're not the only one. I mean, it's as simple as that. You're not the only one. What an amazing community you have created for a buck a month. That is undeniable, guys. We're gonna put the link in the show notes. So you can go straight there.

You'd think that, but I have a lot of people saying to me, like, oh, how can you sell your— how can you sell advice for a dollar a month? Like, it's so bad to sell advice. And the thing is, I put— like, I don't earn anything back from that part of my job. I put my heart, my soul, all my time. Like, my kids, like, sometimes have to book in the diary to see me because I— my passion for this This is my hyperfocus. So when people say to me, like, how can you charge a dollar a month for advice? I think, my God, like, I put so much into it. The only reason I charge a dollar is because I pay for the hypnotherapists to do the courses. I pay for the books. I spend all evenings sending out the emails. So I feel like a dollar is justified, but people do get quite offended by that.

I have run into that many, many, many times, people thinking that in the healing community of any No matter what you're doing, that we should be working at no cost at all. And it's just not feasibly possible to do that and still put food on the table to feed ourselves and our family.

Yeah. And I, and I, and from the— I have lots of jobs. So, you know, I wear many hats. I do this community thing, but I also do mentorship and some, and my podcast things and other things. So I wear many, many hats. So that is not a source of income for me, that $1 thing, unfortunately. Um, but yeah.

Talk to me about the many hats and why that works for you, why wearing the, the many hats kind of is how you roll. Because for me, I used to take so much because I'd, I'd get into something for 2 years, I'd master it, the challenge would be gone, and then I'd move on to the next thing. And that made me crazy too. So talk to me about how you like to wear many hats and the reasons behind that.

So all of these years— I'm 40 now— and all my life since I was 17, I'd get a job and it would be with the best intention. I was really good at getting jobs because I, I can mask, because I'm not really— this isn't really me. This is just the mask I put on to adapt to whoever I'm around. So if you're talkative, I'll be talkative. If you're of a different persuasion, I'll be of a different persuasion. I'm very good at being a social chameleon. It's something that I used to pride myself on. Whether that makes me fake or not, I don't know. It's just a comfortability thing that I've always adapted to, and a lot of neurodivergent people do. So I'd go into a job, get a job because I got on with the people really well, and I'd throw my heart and soul into it, and I'd have the best of intentions. I'll take on every extra shift, every extra everything, you know. I'd stay for free for, you know, a whole week if I had to. And then after about 2 weeks, I'd be like—

Shit.

I can't do it anymore. I'm burnt out, literally exhausted, can't leave the bed, burnt out. And it wasn't working for me. And I've always been a single mother, always had to provide, and I've always had to work. And I'd go from one, and I'd get amazing jobs. I've had the most amazing, beautiful jobs, but I'd throw my heart and soul into it, and people would be like, why is she such a flake? Like, she started off so good, and then What happened to her? So I actually have realized that working for myself or creating something myself is the best thing that I can do, and creating lots of different things so I don't always have to do the same thing, and creating something that is my hyperfocus. ADHD is my hyperfocus, and I can hyperfocus on it. When I knew about neurodivergence, after I'd learned about what it was and my children were a bit older, one of them was obsessed with guitars, and I knew for their them, a full-time job probably wasn't— they are super smart, like mentally smart, like crazy smart, okay? But I knew that a full-time job for them probably wasn't in their thing, you know?

Sometimes they're burnt out for 2 weeks on end. So I found out that their thing was guitar. That's their niche. So I make sure that they know everything about guitar, make sure they can fix guitar, do this with guitar, so that they can be a luthier, which is a guitar fixer. I feel like if you have a neurodivergent person We are so blessed now. We are so cursed with a lot of things in the world, but we are also blessed that we can make careers out of anywhere and advertise ourselves anywhere. And I think if you have a neurodivergent child, or if you're a neurodivergent person, if you have hyperfocus, try and channel it.

Absolutely, absolutely. Um, my, my husband, who, uh, struggles as well, has been a classically trained guitarist since he was about 5, and he is a musical encyclopedia. And I know way more about music now than I ever wanted to too. So it works.

I haven't had a conversation with 2 of my, 2 of my children. I haven't had a conversation about anything other than the guitars, Beatles, Mazzy Star for like years. I am a guitar mum that has to travel to the other side of the country to pick up guitars. I cut my feet constantly on guitar strings that are around the house. But do you know what? If they can find a job with something they love, more power to them, because I don't want them to have to go through the whole things that I've gone through.

It's also them creating. It's them expressing into the world, and I just find it, it's so beautiful, you know, watching them create. So talk to me about that creativity, creation, creating. You know, once you knew how you're built and designed, the freedom that you have to create your, your own job and your own hats. And talk to me about creativity.

I don't know if it is for everyone. I never thought it was for me. You know, I never thought— and I, I come from a really, a really clever family, and, you know, all my siblings have got amazing jobs, and my parents looked after us really well. And I've always been that daughter that has to ring my dad and say, can you bail me out this month? I've buggered up. I've lost my job again. I left my job because I was burnt out. And I think he always thought— and I was always the one that's single, um, so he was my carer, you know. He took care of me, my dad, even though he's a man of little words. I rang him up a couple— he's autistic— I rang him up a couple of months ago and said, took me a lot, and I said, Dad, I've been thinking about this and I need to tell you I love you. And he said, I love dogs. And I was like, okay, I understand that that's autism, that's fine, but at least he knows. So he's been an amazing dad over the years and I understand him fully, but I come from a really accomplished family and I felt so rubbishy.

I see my family achieving the most amazing things and I thought that was never for me, but that was because I was trying to go down this very linear path. No, of course, Ellie, you can't go to college every day and become an accountant because you don't have that willpower to do things like that, like your sisters, but you can find something that you— I'm up most nights until 5 o'clock in the morning researching my current hyperfocus. I could be an expert on any of them things. I don't think it's possible for everyone, you know, I'm not saying, oh, you could be an expert on, you know, The Office, you know, the program, and you go and find a job in that field. But I'm saying there are more accessible things that you can do. I'm sure there are. Because I pigeonholed myself and said that there would be nothing that I could do, but I now realize there is more. We do have gifts. We have our pattern recognition is second to none, and I know a lot of jobs where you need pattern recognition. We do have gifts. It's not a superpower though.

Them gifts come with a lot of crappy stuff, and I don't like it when I see people on the internet, and they're normally people that aren't neurodivergent, and they're like, autism is a superpower, and I think, Yeah, I'm, I'm not sure I'm with you. We do have superpower things, like we have pattern recognition. I'm really good in a pub quiz because I've got a lot of useless knowledge, um, but I wouldn't say it's always been a superpower.

Let's go there. So let's talk about the fact that you see a lot of people, and when I was still in a little bit of denial, I was buying right on into that. Oh yeah, superpower. So until I really realized, wow, I've been through This has been hell. There's, there's, there's pieces of hell involved in this journey, especially when you don't know. So go a layer deeper about why you, you may get frustrated when you see people, especially who are not neurodivergent, saying that there are superpowers attached to this and not just really great skills that we have, like the pattern recognition.

Do you know what? I really get it as, as a mother, and I had 3 children that were, were born boys. One's now trans, but I had 3 little boys once, right? And they were into superheroes and stuff. And at the time, I think if I would have known about neurodivergence, I probably would have said to them, it's a superpower. Because, you know, when you've got children and they're facing something tough, you want to turn it into something amazing. And I totally get I totally get why people say it's a new, uh, it's a superpower. I, I can understand that. And for some people, if that's what carries you through and that's what carries your children through, then that's amazing if it works for you. I'm not taking that away from anyone at all. But for me, it's important to know that it comes with a lot of hardship. For example, something that I'm really passionate about talking about is I was abused as a child, um, but I was very young, so I don't know if it's anything to do with my neurodivergence, but I've been very interested to look at stats. Um, statistics are very important to me, and the amount of children that get sexually, emotionally, physically abused and that are neurodivergent, it's crazy.

Um, because sometimes our self-worth is very low, and, um, you know, and then someone approaches you and says, you're very beautiful, I'll tell you a secret, And you know, you know where I'm going with this. You know, it's, it's very dangerous as a neurodivergent person in the world. You have a whole lot more vulnerability. So with that superpower and pattern recognition, there also comes sometimes, and a lot, low confidence, very vulnerable to, to predators. And a lot of the men and women, non-binary, that I've met over the years from working in neurodivergence have been victims of narcissists, and because they pick them as prey, and whether that's knowingly or unknowingly. And I'm not saying all neurodivergent people, some have been completely blessed, and but it's too big of a correlation for us to ignore. So there may be some superpower things that we can do really good, but the trade-off for how much, how much bullshit we can face is not that great. And that's why I'm so passionate now. You know, when I had my children that are in their 20s, I didn't build them with confidence because I was trying to stop them being like me, because I thought it was the best thing for them to stop them being like me.

I wish that I'd built them with confidence, because when you have neurodivergent children, they are so vulnerable to any kind of abuse that you just need to pour them with confidence. So if someone approaches them and tells them you know, a lie or to keep a secret or something, it's so important they have enough confidence to come back and tell you or to trust themselves. Or, you know, if you're telling your child all the time, don't do it like that, you're doing it wrong, don't do it like that, you're doing it wrong, and then someone approaches them and says— and I know it sounds scary, it sounds horrible— but someone approaches them and says, oh, you're really beautiful and you're very clever, why don't you come with me? It's very hard. It's a very hard lesson to learn. So I think it's very, very important we feel our neurodivergent children and it's easier said than done because I didn't do it with my first 3 children. I was young and I didn't know how. But with my 4th child, I fill her with so much confidence. I don't know if she could be neurodivergent, it could be learned neurodivergence from me, who knows, you know.

But I fill her with a lot of confidence so that she doesn't feel less than, and so she's less susceptible. If someone come up to me and dated me when I was 18 and said, you know, I want to date you, here's some red flags, I've got loads of them. I would have said, you want to date me? I'm so lucky, let me hold your red flags, I'm so lucky. That's what I hope, that if someone approaches my daughter with them red flags one day, she'll have enough confidence that she'll say, no, I'm okay, thank you, see you later, bye. You know, I think it's so important whether our children neurodivergent or not, but more so neurodivergent because that 20% extra extra criticism that we fill them with confidence.

Talk to us about that 20% extra criticism, because you love statistics, and I, I think they're, they're, they're, um, they're undeniable, right? I mean, when you have numbers start creeping so high, um, they're undeniable. And we are actually more, uh, vulnerable. So, um, more criticism. Um, so to counteract that criticism, build them with confidence. So for the parents out there, Ellie, what are you doing differently? Here's where we'll take this. What are you doing differently with your 4th child that you, you didn't No, to do with your first 3.

My life is a lot different now. When I had the others, I was a lot younger. I didn't know myself, unfortunately. I didn't know I was neurodivergent. I was a hot mess. And so unfortunately, I wasn't in the right place anyway. They become wonderful humans, and, you know, they have— we've had great times. And don't get me wrong, it's not— none of them are completely wayward or anything, but I wasn't in the best place, and I didn't give myself and them the perfect start. And with my daughter, because I'm so clued up on neurodivergence and clued up on myself, I feel like I can teach her a lot more. I didn't know myself. I didn't have any confidence. I didn't know about neurodivergence. And I think that's really honest because I would have been embarrassed to say before, I failed my other children, you know. I did. If I would have known more about neurodivergence, they could be achieving a lot more. They achieved Amazingly, but you know, their life may have had an easier time. So I think I want people to learn from my mistakes and learn the language for neurodivergence so that when you see your child isn't able to do something, and it's really easier said than done, I know because I've done it myself, instead of saying, don't do it like that, why can't you do it like them?

And it is easy to do, it sounds horrible, but I know. Parents say it all the time, you know, when you're tired, when you've had enough. Instead of that, to give them proper knowledge about what's going on with their child. Um, my child homeschools. That's not for everyone. I'm, I'm very blessed. I work from home, and so I— and she's my 4th child, you know. I've been doing this thing for a long time, so I'm— and I hate the school run, and so I'm able to, um, homeschool her, and that's not for everyone. But because people have to work and people can't always homeschool their children. But what I'm most passionate about is when your children go to school, if you know that they are different to other children, inherently different, like neurodiverse, tell them. Tell them they're neurodiverse. Don't let them go to school with a class of fish and a teacher that's a fish and try and swim, and when they fail, they feel like shit. Don't do that to them. You might not want to pigeonhole them, and I get that completely. And you may not want to put a label on them, and I also get that too.

But before, at the time I was 10, I had all kinds of labels and they weren't nice. And the ADHD one, I'm okay with that. And I want some kids to look one day and say, ADHD people, look on the internet and see there is loads of ADHD amazing creators now, and say, you know what, They're ADHD and they're doing this and they're doing that. And ADHD isn't the bad thing that we used to think it was. There are lots of creative ADHD— there's lots of bad people out there, but there's lots of creative ADHD people out there that you can say, you know, you might be ADHD, but you learn things different. Let's look at another ADHD person and see how they've learned something different. I just think it's so important that you tell your child that they are different to others, and there is nothing wrong with different— different to others. You don't have to sit the child down and be like, you are different and you won't fit in. No, you know, your brain thinks slightly differently, and you might not think in the same way as everyone else, and that is okay because you do this better than them, and you do that better than them, but they do this better than you, but that's okay.

I think that that's so healthy because I went school and I just thought everyone hates me and I can't do anything. And I know a lot of broken diagnosed people, undiagnosed people of the same age as me that think the same thing. And I just think, okay, let's do this differently. People come up to me and they go, you don't look autistic. And, you know, when my dad first got diagnosed, he said— my dad's quite a successful guy, you know, he's been great in business, he's amazing at maths, he's like a numbers whiz. and he's been quite successful, and he said, I can't be autistic, I've done so well, you know. And I think there's that thing from many years ago where you think people that are autistic are different, or, you know, look different, or appear different, or they're not as intelligent. Because a lot of my children— people, I say my children are really clever, they've always been very gifted, and everyone said, but they're autistic. And I'm like, yeah, a lot of autistic people are really intelligent. I think there's that massive misconception. And the more people that can talk about their misconceptions, the better.

And there are talk about their misconceptions, and there's a lot of TikTok videos— and I say this a lot— but about, oh, I lost my keys, I must be a little bit ADHD. But I think we need to talk about all sides of the coin— how our children are more vulnerable to abuse, how, you know, it can cause problems in relationships You know, the funny things as well. I put off showering for, for 2 weeks, and I used to feel like it was just a me thing, and now I know it's an everyone thing. I want us to talk about all of that so one time our youth of today can sit down and be like, okay, I'm normal, I'm okay. It won't even be a question. That's my passion, and that's my hyperfocus.

Yeah, yeah. I want to circle back to something you said that I think is so important. Again, going to, uh, not only parents out there, but, but anyone really struggling. And this is for, um, everybody. Um, you said, I didn't know who I was.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that is the— there's not going to be a destination to this because, you know, we'll be managing it. For as long as our days are, are gifted to us here. But I think that's one of the gifts of this journey is knowing how you tick and click, knowing how you operate, being able to articulate that to the people who love, care about, and are in service to you like you are in service to them. So talk about that change when you, when you really started to understand Wow, I know who I am as a human.

It's, it's a journey, okay? And I'm not gonna pretend that I know exactly who I am. I really didn't know who I am, but I feel like there's a bus stop at the end and a bus stop at the beginning. The bus stop, when I was standing at it at the beginning, I didn't have a clue who I am, okay? I feel like I'm on the bus yet. I'm on the bus now. I'll probably never get to the destination. I don't know if anyone ever does. But I'm definitely on the journey to finding out who I am. This is a massive missing puzzle piece that I've slotted in that makes sense. But also what comes with all ADHD is masking. So since I was— and what comes with trauma, so it could have come with the trauma from when I was a little girl. Um, it's masking. Every time I meet a person, to make my nervous system feel safe, I adapt just to be like them. just to survive. I've done it my whole life. I will meet— for example, I grew up in a predominantly Nigerian area, and all my friends were Nigerian.

I spoke with a Nigerian accent. I loved Nigerian culture. I ate Nigerian food. I lived and breathed Nigeria, but it was a mask. I mean, I still love it, and it's something I really appreciate, but every time I met someone, I placed this mask on to be like the people around me. The same with clothes, and the same with music, and the same with food. The other day I was eating sushi and I thought, this is a really weird thing for me to like. And then I remembered that sushi was a really cool phase years ago, and I think I just copied it and I just carried on doing it because it was cool. And, um, and that's really sad because under all of their masks, who is— who is Ellie? And specifically where I've been doing it since I was so young, is there an Ellie to begin with, or is Ellie just amalgamation of all of these masks? masks made up. And I don't know if I will ever discover who I truly am, or whether it's there, or if it's just an amazing amalgamation of everything I've met along the way. But I know having the language to describe a lot of the things that are wrong with me has made an epic amount of difference.

I don't feel ashamed anymore. The other day I went on a podcast, and it was nighttime my side, and it was in America, And I had to turn the light off. And I said to them, I'm so sorry, I have to turn the light off. I can't bear it. And now I can advocate for myself. You know, if I don't text someone back— because I have the best of friends, but I might not ever text them back ever. Or— and I get to that place where I'm so ashamed that I haven't texted them back, then it becomes some big thing in my head, and then I end up blocking them. Like, horrific things happen, right? These are just small little things. But, um, Now I just say, look, I'm Ellie. I'm, I'm not going to be the best of friends always. I'm very unreliable. If you come to me with a problem, I will fight it with the biggest passion ever, but I will disappear from your life for a couple of months. But I can advocate for myself, and that has gave me— that's gave me purpose, and it's gave me— it's made me feel not so bad.

And I think that that is— I think a lot of the people that I've met that are late diagnosed, they've been able to get their seat on the bus and they weren't able to get on the bus before. You know, I don't know if we'll complete our journey. I don't think anyone ever gets there in knowing themselves, but we're on the bus.

I love that. I love that. And I also love the idea of— and I had to do this the first time I went MIA on my best friend. I broke her heart. She didn't know why. She didn't know where I went. And So now I do have those conversations up front. Hey, I, I may, I may block you one day for no reason at all.

I'm just unhinged. Yes, I'll circle back around to you. The same thing, like, if someone, if someone knocks on my door, you can be my best friend, and— but actually, my best friends know now that they can't knock on my door. If you knock on my door, I will hide, um, because I haven't got my house prepared, I haven't got my head prepared, I haven't— I'm not in the right mental space. And, you know, when people don't understand you, people are sick of that shit, and they're like, oh, you know, that's rude. Now, my friends that have stayed with me throughout the years are the friends that know my quirks, and they're okay with it. But now I know why I have them quirks, so I can say, hey, you know, it's not my fault. And it's not ADHD is not something— and I see someone say the other day, Robbie Williams, he was in Take That. I don't— it's like an English pop group, Take That, and he's been diagnosed with autism and ADHD, and he said, I can use it as an excuse now. And a lot of people in the ADHD community were really on the fence about that, and they were like, I'm not sure if I'm happy with people saying that you can use it as an excuse, because people already feel like it's used as an excuse sometimes.

One, I think Robbie Williams can use it however he wants. When you've got ADHD, you're entitled able to do with that information what you will. If you, if you feel like it's made a problem in your life for many years and it's making things excusable for you, then sure. I do think a lot of my addiction problems were down to self-confidence, self-worth, addictive personalities, and I think a lot of them things were down to my ADHD. So yes, you can use it as an excuse, um, but you need to explain the basis behind why you're using an excuse. So I tell my friends, you know, you can't knock on my door not because I don't love you. I will fight to death for you. I'm pretty sure, like, that's my personality. But if you knock on my door, I will have an internal meltdown and I will cry. Like, you, you can use it as an excuse validly and to explain what you're about. And I think that language is so important. It doesn't make me a pariah anymore. And if it makes me a pariah, so what? I'm okay with that. I used to feel like nobody liked me because Because I'm Ellie.

Now I think, no, if people don't like me, they just don't understand how my brain works, and that's okay because we're all different. It doesn't make me better, it doesn't make me worse, it just makes us all different.

And we are all different. Yeah, we are. That's it, we're all different, you know. I think, uh, I think knowing our, our build and design is a Is a good place to start so we can articulate to the people who are interested in hanging around, uh, to articulate who we are. And if they want to hang around for who we are, let them hang around. And if they don't, then, uh, as far as I'm concerned, it's kind of their loss.

So it's like, you know, when you have a Lego set, right, and it's got shitloads of instructions with it, and, um, some people would just go ahead and build it themselves. shops and they're like, I don't need the instructions. Some people will use the instructions, so it's sometimes a lot easier to use the instructions. And if I had the manual to say why I was like the way I was, I probably would have built this beautiful Lego a lot sooner, and I would have not broke and had to glue a few broken parts here and there if I'd used the instructions. So I feel like, hey, if I had a manual, it'd be better, and I want everyone else to have the manual. Whether you use it or you throw it out the window is another thing. But you have the option to know that about yourself, and I think that is so important.

It is, it is. Don't step on the Legos, Flo. It hurts, it hurts.

Listen, I had 3 little boys. I stepped on them Legos for like 10 years. I've still got a piece in my foot.

Well, Ellie, listen, we still have so much more of this conversation to explore. Uh, but we've got to wrap it up. I'd love to have you back on next month. Some of my favorite guests, I have them just roll back on each month, so we'd love to have you back on next month. Um, before we let you go though, there are 2 questions I always ask every guest before we let them go. Are you ready?

No. First, yes, go ahead. The suspense is killing me as an ADHD person. You can't tell me that and Tell me straight away. Okay, go ahead. I'm waiting.

In your own life, in your own life, what did you perform the most in order to survive? And what did dropping that role, that mask or performance, do for your life?

I performed being sociable, okay? So I would go to family things, and I am the most unsociable person, and I'd have to get blind drunk just to fit in with people, um, and it ruined my life. Um, I've been sober now for 11 years, and I go to family events and I say, hey. They'd be like, where have you been for 10 years? And I'll be like, I've been on a journey. I found out I've got ADHD. I've become sober, and I'm not gonna mask anymore. And when it gets too loud at 9 o'clock, I'm gonna go home. And that has made a huge difference to myself. That advocating for myself has made the hugest difference in my whole entire life.

I love it. And last question, what do you want us to be talking more about? What conversations do we need to be having more of?

Whatever we need to talk about. There's always someone to talk about with it. And whatever you need, you know, it can be big, it can be small, there's nothing too crazy. You talk about what you need to to talk about, there's going to be someone in the world that's willing to talk about it with you. So whatever is important for you, you talk about it. I've spoke about with one of my children only guitars for about 20 years, and you know, I'm still there. So you talk about whatever you want to talk about, but it's so important we have these— to have these conversations about our neurodivergent children because they are the next generation and we want them less broken than this one.

Indeed, indeed. All right, my friends, I'm gonna ask you the same question. Well, we're, we're gonna ask our guests what they performed in order to survive and what might setting that role, mask, or performance down do to lighten your load just a little bit. And I am your host, Lisa Lacey, here with my special guest, Ellie, AuDHD. I have a feeling she'll be back next month when you find the answer to that question, my friends. We will both see you at the edge. Thank you so much, Ellie.