Transcript of Matt Damon

Hi, my name is Matt Damon, and I feel good about being Conan O'Brien's friend.

I was encouraging you beforehand really go after me, and you chose to be a kind man.

The most anodyne answer.

Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walking loose, climb the fence, books and pens.

I can tell that we are going to be friends. I can tell that we are going to be friends. Hey there. Welcome to Conor O'Brien Needs a Friend. I just freaked out my coworkers. You okay? I am now. Yeah, I was looking up at the light that's above us. Is that a bug? Is that a dead bug? I didn't even notice that. Okay. I was just looking up at the light and I went into a little bit of a trance and all of you were staring at me. I That's the way I left my body.

Well, you weren't just in a trance. You were making the sound of a dripping faucet.

Yeah, I was going... I don't know what I was doing there. I've been working a lot lately, and I had something I had to do last night, and so I'm not well-rested, and I feel a little high, even though I've taken no substances. Just seconds ago, I was staring up at the light above us when you said, Okay, Konan, do the intro, and I was doing this with my mouth. It's good you're doing it again. I wasn't doing a bit. I wasn't trying to be funny. I was just looking up at the light and making that noise. Then I looked down and you were all staring at me as if I were some sideshow freak. Are you okay? Are you okay? I'm not. I think I'm okay. Are you really tired? Are you tired? Yeah, a little bit, but you never tell the audience you're tired. You always want people thinking- You just prefaced it that you were tired. Yeah, you said you were tired because you said you did something yesterday and you slept late. So you did that. There's no audience here. I just He did what Peter Sellers does as Clouseau, and it's one of my favorite things, but I wasn't doing it on purpose.

He walks into an interrogation room and he says, because there's been a kidnapping, and he says, I'm here to investigate the murder. And someone goes, murder? And he says, Who said murder. They said, You said murder. He said, I don't say murder. I've always loved that. It's such a funny thing. I just did it for real. I don't know what's going on with me. I'm a little scrambled today, but that could be fun. Maybe that's going to loosen my brain a little bit and various creative juices will flow. Who can say? Okay.

I'm worried about you. Are you really? Yeah. Well, also you're wearing this very cozy flannel. It almost looks like you're in PJs and that you've just woken up or you're ready for bed and that we should tuck you in.

I don't wear flannel a lot. I like it. That is true. It's nice. I should wear a flannel a little more often. We're in the winter months now, which in LA means it's not 72, it's 71 degrees. Yeah, it's freezing. Sometimes flannel is necessary. I do. I mean, come on. That's something I want to talk about. I want to see my breath at night. I want it to be cold. You never go with me on this, but I like to wear layers. I was just on the East Coast recently doing some work there, and I was wearing these sweaters, and I was dressed like an adult. I was wearing a pea coat, and I was walking around in it, and I had sweaters, and I would sometimes wear an overcoat, and I'd look like a gentleman. Then I come back to LA, and it's time to put on my hoof farted T-shirt. Look, do I think this is a great opening segment? No, I don't. I think we've lost our weight. It started with me staring at a light going- We started at a deficit. Yeah, exactly, which we inherited from the Biden administration. But to be fair, you can't blame me, even though it's a year into my podcast administration, this is what I inherited when I started this venture five years ago.

Are you okay? What are you doing? Now, you're touching the sides of the mic and saying, Beep, beep, beep, okay, I see. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, Yeah. He's using his microphone as a shaver. Yeah. That's cool. No, I think we're showing such disrespect for the people who- Am I distorted through this glass? Yes, you are. Yeah, it looks like a dolly sketch. Yeah. Look at us. We're bringing our A game today. Well, I respect our audience. They pay a lot to listen to this podcast. Do they pay a lot? No, they don't pay anything. Okay. Well, then what are we worried about? We're giving them what that's worth. You get what you pay What's this for, listeners. You got exactly what you paid for. No, they have precious life. Once again, I ran into someone on the street today here in Larchmont who said that they were just listening to the podcast. We are borrowing chunks of people's life that they will never get back.

Also, I think this might be the last episode of the year, so it's okay if our tanks are a little empty.

No, it's not. Now you've put a whole new level of pressure on it. Go out with a bang. Don't blame me.

You started this episode making dripping noises.

I clearly wasn't ready. You, as the maestro behind this whole operation, should have said, he's not ready, let's wait. Or maybe we could have had a huddle, or maybe you could have asked me, are you okay off mic? I'd be saying that every day. You said, are you okay on mic? Who does that? What doctor are you? I thought it made good content.

For some people, this is the last episode of the year. For others, it's the first episode.

Oh, no.

We can't start this way.

Oh, God. No, can we do it better? Yeah, we can do better. Let's start again. Say something. It's funny. Well, can I just say, I don't think of the New Year's as the new year. I think of fall as the beginning of the year, and I think this is the midpoint of the year. No, that's because you're still a child who gets a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and puts on your short pants and goes off to school. That's good. I mean, college. Let's start again because I think We can do better. Yeah.

Are we starting again for real? Like we're ditching this?

I don't even know what's real and what's not anymore. Oh my gosh. This is just a weird... I can count on weird. We're in some weird Bermuda triangle. It could be because we were off for so long. We're having trouble finding our footing. That could be it.

But that wasn't the case yesterday. We were hidden.

Were we hidden? We were like, okay. No, it was yesterday. At least I felt okay. I thought it was yesterday. It was pretty good. We were hidden. Yesterday was actually very good. Was it? Yeah. When do you have standards? What are you doing? I don't have standards. That's the problem is even I think this is bad, and my standards are really low. I think right now, and maybe this is...

Yes, you do think...

Oh, my God. This is a good thing for people to hear. That their heroes struggle as well. I think more than twice have we ever ditched a take on something.

We almost always keep things. Yeah.

You don't want to mention it? I don't know, whatever. What's this now? What are you saying? Now I'm taking it. What are you doing? What are you doing? I was pulling this whole thing. This is awful. I woke up from my primordial slumber and started to pull it back together again. Then you mutter and reference something and look at you and you make noises with your mouth but no words. I'm sorry. He's blaming us for this. Yeah, you're the one who started it. It trickles down. I'm back, and I'm better than ever. Okay. Hey, welcome to Konan O'Brien Needs a Friend, the podcast that delivers every single time with never a false start, never a missed opportunity. Sona, Mouvsestian has joined me. Yes, hi. I'm here. Yeah, you are here. And Matt Gourley, how are you?

I'm well, thank you.

You look fantastic. Hey, so do you.

Thank you.

I'm doing the best I can. I'm wearing a flannel shirt today. It's cozy. It's very nice. Bought it just down the street. I'd say the name of the store, but maybe that's cheating. I don't know. Give them a free plug. Farady, they make a really good sweater. I like their stuff. They have very good stuff, and I'm a regular customer. But that's not the point. I'm here to talk about what I think is the topic on everyone's lips right now, which is the holidays. Because this is going to air when, Adam? January fifth for most people. Yeah, that's still the holidays, or is it? This is so confusing. It's not the holidays. It's okay.

Can we go back to the inept one?

No, no, no.

You said wrap? Yeah. Oh, my God. I thought I had saved it. Then I said, Let's talk about the holidays, forgetting that this comes out January fifth when everyone's in a deep depression. Just the mere mention of holidays makes you want to eat a gun. Okay, let's go. Oh, my God. My birthday is January seventh, by the way. Trust me. Every year, your birthday, I'm excusing myself to try and end it all. Oh, my God. Hey, it's almost the year and our anniversary of my house burning down. Oh, my God. That's right. Oh, my God. Let's make it worse. Let's make it worse. Let's make it worse. Let's make it worse. Let's make it worse. My parents' passing, year anniversary. Oh, my God. But you know what? We got through all of that, and then the greatest tragedy of all hit us, a very bad opening segment. That's worse than all of- That was worse than all of those things. Oh, man. And yet we're still here. Oh, my God. I love you, Sona, and I love you, Coralie. I love you, too. Together, we're going to make this year. This is a great moment.

Let's do it. Yeah. Okay.

2026, it can't get any worse.

My guest today is an actor you know from such films as Goodwill hunting, The Martian, and the Born Identity. Now, you can see him in the new Netflix movie, The Rip. What can I say? He's a superstar. He's an international megastar. He also is a lovely gentleman. Matt Damon. Welcome. Thank you so much for being here, and we have a lot to talk about today. I wanted to start with, I think I've brought this up to you before, but not on microphone. We didn't monetize it. Jesus. Those are the only conversations that are worthwhile.

I want to sell some ads.

Are you going to talk about the New Buick? What is this?

Matt and I are very excited about the New Buick. The Hyundai. No. My brother took me to a bar years ago, and this was short. This isn't too long. It might have been a year or two after- Goodwill hunting. It's Goodwill hunting. Hunting or maybe early born. It was- No, it was before that.

It was before born. It was late. It was in the '90s, though.

Okay, it was in the '90s. I'm in town. We're both- Wasn't it Christmas night or something? It was Christmas night, and my brother said, Hey, we could hang out with our... This is my brother Luke. We could hang out with our parents or we could blow this place and go. All they did was create us. We could go to this really cool bar I know called the B-side Lounge. I I said, Yeah, yeah, screw the elderly. We go over there and I walk into this very cool establishment and just a really cool place to hang bar. You're sitting there and Because Ben and I had the exact same conversation.

Let's get the fuck out of here.

Yeah, exactly. You guys were escaping. I just see you sitting there and I go over, and you couldn't have been nicer. We're chatting. I think we had briefly met before, but not really talked. Within minutes, you and I are talking about Flannery O'Connor. That's what I remember. I remember thinking, I don't know that there are many movie stars that would start talking to me about Flannery O'Connor. Do you know what I mean? I thought it was very... I was like, this guy is- There are a lot of people who read books, though. No, there aren't. I test a lot of movie stars. Most of them can't read.

Can't read at all.

Tom Hanks cannot read. He can type, but he can't read. He can type, but it's just like a monkey at a typewriter. Yeah. Also, it means so many huge stars can't. Liam Neeson can't tell time. I'll ask him, Hey, Liam, what time is it? He shows me his watch and says, What do you think? Unbelievable.

But you're scared to answer because of the way he said it.

You have a certain set of skills, but not telling time.

You don't have all the skills. By the way, Ben and I were We had extras in a movie called The Good Mother that Liam Neeson was the star of in the '80s, and we were still in high school. I think it still exists in the movie. They were shooting in Harvard Square, and we went and we were extras, and we walked by Liam Neeson. Wow. Like an adolescent or teenage, Ben and Matt walked by a very young Liam. That was as close as I ever got to him, but I'm a big fan.

What you just said reminds me that you guys were good friends long before you became famous, and you were working together and on a mission to make it in this business. I've read before that you had a bank account together.

A Bay Banks account. You remember Bay Banks?

Of course I do.

We had a shared Bay Banks account that we would put money in that we had made professionally. If we got any part, like that extra work, for instance, you get 50 bucks or 100 bucks, depending. If it was a union job, you get 100. That money would go into our shared account. That account we could only use for auditions in New York, where we take the bus or back there, the Pan Am shuttle or whatever, the train, get down to New York, walk in, which took however long, five hours to get down there. You walk into the place somewhere in Midtown, and in three minutes, they're like, Okay, thanks. We used to call it getting okay, thanks because you go there and beat your chest and pull your hair out and sob, and they go, Okay, thanks. And you're done. And then you go all the way back to Boston. But we had this account, we could use the money for that, or we could use the money for video games at 1001, which was the arcade on Mass Ave. Or when we got older, if we could find anyone to buy us beer. Those were the three uses for the account.

You were very responsible young man.

But talk about intentionality, the code to the account was River P, because River Phoenix was an actor that we really admired. He was our age, and he was getting the that we wanted to play. That was our secret code to get into our shared bank account.

It's interesting. I don't know about you, but I think about a lot, and I have wistfully about early experiences before anybody knows who I am, I'm headed to something to audition and someone says, Well, you should have makeup because it might be a camera test. I went to a drug store and purchased makeup at a counter. The woman said, What is it you're trying to do? I said, They said, I need makeup. Then sitting in my, this is out here in LA, sitting in my 1977 beat-up Isuzu Opal and putting it on myself with a rear view mirror and then going in and being terrible.

But she told you, Lipstick and blush?

Yeah.

They were like, That kabuki guy was awful.

Did you see divine?

You looked like Marlon Brando in the Island of Dr. Moreau. What is up with That kid.

Yeah. It was a taco commercial. Why was he doing that? Why was he... But I think about those things all the time, and it's funny. I have an affection for that whipper snapper. I don't know if you... I mean, you and Ben must have so many memories of being an extra, and they're telling you, Chew more slowly, or whatever. You have no lines.

Get the fuck away from the craft service. Yeah, get away. That's not extra. It can be demeaning work. But we were interested in it, and we loved being on sets, and it was like, we were thrilled to be there. Yeah, it was a lot of... You know, starting out in the business is... I think my nephew's an actor. It's different now in the sense that they're allowed to put themselves on tape now. It was a different... Auditioning was like, you had to go, show up at the appointed time, you walked into the room and you had one shot at it, and that was it. Now, the younger actors are allowed to... All actors are allowed to video themselves and work on it until they get it and say, This is the best representation of me for this part, which is a very different thing. There's a lot of humiliation in the starting out, as you know, like those things.

I'm continually humiliated now.

Well, there's a lot of humiliation. In general, it's a very vulnerable thing to do. I just started early on being humiliated, and then I liked it.

Then I turned it into a career.

When I did The Rainmaker with Coppola, like 30 years ago, he did this amazing thing every morning. When a new actor would come, he would go down to the base camp where everybody gets ready in the morning. In the parking lot, right where all the trailers are, he would gather all of the actors and he would play theater games, like Soundball, for instance. Soundball is this game you play in acting school where I throw a ball to you and I to make a noise like, bloop, or whatever. It's an invisible ball, obviously. It's not a real ball. It's a space ball. It's an air ball. You catch it and you have to make my sound, bloop, and then you have to make a new sound, bleep, and you throw it to someone else. It is the dumbest thing in the world. But Francis would do this with all the… I'm talking Mickey Rourke. I'm talking about hardcore, very serious people.

I'm picturing the cast of the Godfather now.

No, it was- James Cohn. I know, but it John Voight. It was like these wonderful actors, right? The idea was… Francis would do it, and he would start, and he was this iconic… Yeah, of course. The Godfathers, the Apocalypse Now, the conversation on and on, all of these brilliant movies. The whole point was to level set everybody at this is a place where you can be completely foolish and vulnerable, and I'm going to do it, too. Because that's a part of it. It's like you really got to put yourself out there if you're doing it right. There are the requisite amount of humiliations that accompany that, even as you get successful. If you're doing a tough scene, you might have to break a lot of eggs to get the omelet. You know what I mean? You have to do that in front of everybody.

I'm just thinking about the list of people, directors that you've worked with. It's an insane... It's Coppola, Scorsese. Help me out here.

There's a lot.

There's Eastwood, Spielberg. Eastwood, Spielberg. Spielberg.

Clint, Chris Nolan.

The one I'm most interested in is... I mean, they're all iconic directors and amazing, but I don't have a sense of what Eastwood would be like as a director. I've always heard it was like one take or he's quick.

The very first day. I worked with him twice, and the first time was Invictus. I was playing a South African rugby player, and that's a really tough accent to do. I spent six months. There's this great dialect coach named Tim Monick, very famous in our world, and he's wonderful, and I've known him for a very long time. Tim would come. I was living in Miami at the time, and he would come, and I had a little office over the garage, and he would come in from 9: 00 to 5: 00, Monday through Friday, we would work on this accent. Because South Africans speak English. It's like their tongue does the exact opposite thing that ours. If I say, I'll be right back, if you say it, and you think about what your tongue's doing, they say, oh, be that big. Oh, yeah. Okay. You go, What the fuck just happened? In my mouth? It was very hard to do.

This is why you're an actor and I am not.

But we took like... It was a long, it was a lot of work and fun and great. I showed up and I'm ready. It's like my chance to work with one of my heroes. The very first take, I did it. Meanwhile, I've done this so many thousands of times. I have a number of different ways that I'm thinking of maybe doing the scene. He goes, Cut, print, move on. I go, I go, Hang on, hang on, hang on. Boss, you want to do another one? I wasn't even in costume. That was the first one. You want to do it? He goes, Why? You want to waste everybody's time.

Oh, my God.

I went, No, I guess we're moving on. It was one take.

He was holding a gun. No, no.

But there was a kindness in it, too. No, no. I get that. He was a lovely guy. What was really interesting is the second movie I did with him, it builds to a head with this, a scene with me and this nine-year-old kid. The nine-year-old kid was a non-actor. We had done one take for everybody, all through Invictus, Morgan Freeman. Everybody gets one take. We must have done 40 takes with this little boy because we were trying to get this. It was this huge moment in the film, and we were trying to get this stuff out of him. Clint was right next to me. We were right next to the camera together just working with this boy. It was like his whole mentality was, your crew will go to the ends of the earth for you as long as you're not taxing them on every shot. When we need to get in there, we get in there. But for the most part, professional actors are going to show up with something good, and we keep the momentum.

I had a chat with Clint Eastwood once briefly, and I told him how much Unforgiven meant to me. It's an American movie that was a huge box office hit, and it's a very European film. He just asked me, What do you mean? I said, Because everyone's trying to do the right thing and making it worse, which is very much life. That is not a classic American movie formula. That movie is magical to me. He hit me. No, he's at...

You want to hear a good Unforgiven story? Yeah. That you can cut out if it's too boring for people. But I thought it was really interesting. There was a scene in Invictus. I think I had to give a speech or something to the guys in the locker room or something like that. We were shooting it the following Tuesday or whatever, and I said to him, Hey, boss, that scene on Tuesday, do you mind if I tinker with the dialog? I've been working on it, but I think I can figure out a better way to say it. He was, Yeah, sure. Go I came back, and on Tuesday, we shot the scene and we did one take, and he printed it and moved on. But he came up to me and said, I thought you were going to change it. I said, Yeah, it's a funny story. I go, I wrote it and I rewrote it all weekend. I wrote it probably 27 draughts, and then I got it perfect. I looked back and it was exactly the same as the original was. He laughed and he goes, Yeah. He goes, That happened to me once.

I go, Really? He goes, I had a script and I loved it and I had it. I goes, I worked for five years on this thing. He goes, It wasn't getting better, and I couldn't figure it out. And he goes, And then I went back to the original script that I had. I pulled it out of the drawer and I read it, and I called the writer that day and said, I'm making your script exactly as you wrote it. And I said, No way. What movie? And he said, Unforgiven. Oh, wow.

Yeah. Well, it's all there on the page. I mean, I've looked at the script, it's all there on the page.

But sometimes we get in that headspace where we go, I bet I could... You know what I mean? Yeah, of But it was a great lesson in returning to what attracted you to it in the first place. The elemental aspect, the thing that really pulled you in is the reason you're doing it. Too much tinkering, you can get away from that.

Yes, you can. This is really stupid, but you're saying very well-spoken, intelligent things. Then I come in with, But for years on the late night talk show, people would have a good idea, and then they'd bring it down to the floor and it would be different from what they told me. They would say, Yeah, I started thinking about it. I would always say, When you overthink, you start to stink. Actually, that's great.

It's a Dr..

Susso version of- It is a Dr. Seusso version of the same. No, it's not, Matt. It's not great. It's not. But couldn't I have... I would do it in that in like, I have a really smart thing to say, but I intentionally, I think, said it in the stupidest way possible. That is awful. But then it became a thing that the writers would chant sometimes. They would chant No, I made that out.

Imagine Clint Eastwood saying that.

That's actually great.

It'd be nice to see.

I think about one of your movies a lot. It's more than one movie. It's a series But The Born Identity, because I do a lot of international travel for work, and I'm constantly going through airports now where you don't even have to show- Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Because you're comparing yourself to Jason Bournes. I get it a lot. People in internationally say you're very Jason Bournesque. Then they see me run and they go, Forget what I just said. Then they put on their glasses and look at my face and go, Really forget. No, what I've noticed is that I'll go through airports now, and you don't even have to show your passport It's all your eye scan. I think Jason Bourne is fucked now. Because a big thing with you, with your character was a major fight, throw down, shootout in the streets of Paris, and then instantly you're in Cairo and everyone's looking for you.

He's a ghost.

He's a ghost. You've reappeared in Cairo. I'm thinking now it's just... You know, your Irish.

It was a couple of years ago that that started where I came back from somewhere and I had the global entry, and that was already pretty easy. You go to the kiosk and you put your passport in and it reads it and takes a picture and goes, Yeah, that's you. Now, it's like you don't even need to pull your passport out. Yeah, he would be totally screwed. The whole point was he had six passports and they all had different identities, and he could speak all those languages, and he could just become one of those guys.

Now, a safety deposit box has six eyes.

Yeah, exactly. Eyeballs you put on, contact lenses. No, and also I remember it. I was talking to, I think we were interviewing Emily Blunt once, and she was talking to us about a movie you guys made together where she had to run in one scene. It was her first scene where she had to run and that you very kindly said, Emily, take a look. Look at yourself running. Here's how you want to... Because you think you're running well, but there's a way when you think you're running well on camera, but then you look back at it, it can be tragically wrong.

Do you know who told me that? No. Was Franca Patente, who was my co-star in Born, had started in this great German movie called Run Lola Run. She runs in that movie through the whole movie. She's Lola. She's She's so badass for the whole movie. She's in these Doc Martens, and it's just an awesome movie. We were on set of Born, and I had to do a running scene. She said, Thomas, the guy who directed Run Lola Run, they had been a couple for a while. She said, Thomas told me before I started doing it to go out, and he videotaped me running, and we looked at it because she said, You don't... The only running that we see is we see Usain Bolt. We see the people who can really run, and we go, I must look like that. When you start to run, you just look ridiculous. I thought I ran great. Then I looked and I was like, Oh, my God.

It's Jerry Lewis.

It really is. Everything. And so you start to practice high knees.

High knees and keep the arms in.

I did say that to Emily, I'm sure, because it really helped me.

No, she said you saved her. It was great. But it was one of those things that all of us in our mind, if I'm running hard, which I don't do much anymore, but if for some reason I had to run quickly, in my mind, I'm Matt Damon or I'm Tom Cruise, but I know I really am one of the big balloons that they have in front of a used car lot that's flopping around. And I'll have to shriek, too, as I run, which isn't helping.

Cruise figured it out early. I remember there's that great scene in Born on the fourth of July where he runs through the rain before he goes off to war. He must have figured it out in the '80s. He was ahead of everybody.

Yeah. He probably has a scientific formula, aerodynamic flow chart.

He runs perfectly.

I wanted to talk to you because about this current movie, The Rip, Which is fascinating to me. First of all, I knew nothing about the movie when I watched it. I watched it last night. One of the things that I didn't realize is that, oh, you're in this with, I knew nothing, which is not the way you usually experience a movie these days. But someone arranged, Oh, Konan can watch the movie. If you log into this, you can watch it. So I knew absolutely nothing. I knew you were in it, and that's it. It's a movie that you have made with Ben. You and Ben are in it together. That was a surprise to me. I thought, This is interesting. This is such a loaded situation for you guys now because in a very nice way, in a complementary way, it's this dynamic duo getting back together. But I don't know if you feel the weight of that at all when you guys work together.

We did the movie Air together a few years ago that Ben directed, and we're both in it together. We started this little studio together a few years ago. One of the reasons that we started it, I was watching that Beatles documentary, the Peter Jackson one. Get back. Get back. At the end of that documentary, there's this incredible scene when they play on the roof together. It's pure joy. You see them, the cops show up and McCartney turns around. He's like, What the fuck? It's the most joyful thing. They're all in their 20s. Then Peter Jackson put this Kyron up and it said, This is the last time the Beatles played live together. I was watching it. My youngest was, I think, 11 at the time. She just goes, Dad, why are you crying? Tears were just pouring down my face because it was like, what? It made me so sad that these guys who were just, this was it. They couldn't get past whatever it was that wouldn't allow them to keep doing it together. I called Ben and I was like, man, because I think this was our dream and our lives from the time we were teenagers, and it was something we did together.

We wanted to do movies together, and we wrote Goodwill hunting together and started it together and all of that. I think after that, I think we were like, Oh, well, we should try to make names for ourselves individually. I think we were a little allergic to working together for a while. We were still very connected and saw each other all the time.

But after a success of that magnitude, you don't want to get locked in. Exactly. Great. We'll do the movie. Is Ben in or Okay, Ben, but where's Matt? You don't want to get locked into that.

Exactly. We had done Kevin Smith's movie, Dogma, together right after that. We were like, All right, we should chill. Then suddenly, a couple of decades went by, and it was like, now we're in our 50s, we're starting this company, and it's like, I don't care. It doesn't have to be a thing. It doesn't have to be a stop the presses. We just like working together.

Yeah. Also, what's evident in the movie is you guys have a connection. When you have scenes together, there's a connection that you can't manufacture. It's very clear that you two really love... I don't know, you're on the same wavelength. You're on the same... You're clicked in and you're two characters in this movie. There's a lot of tension between you. There are times where you just want to kill each other. Then as you go on, many things are revealed and you understand what their true dynamic is. But I don't know, it was something you couldn't have figured that out with an acting coach if you didn't know each other, I don't think.

It helps to have that. We also did, by the way, The Last Duel, another movie that we wrote with. But yeah, no, I think that connection definitely, obviously, loads every scene in a different way.

I think there's a thing that happens, I know in my 20s, 30s, 40, I was very intense all the time thinking about every move. As I've gotten older, I am much more interested in being with people that I really like, that I love, making things with them and enjoying myself. It comes a little bit from a place of, Oh, who cares? I just want to do this. I don't want to overthink it. I just want to be with- I think you see that you start to see the...

You're in the second half, right?

I plan to live to 150. I hope you do.

I hope we both do. So we're still in the first half.

I really don't want to live to 150.

Well, if you could stay healthy, I I don't know. Might be great.

I'll be in constant pain.

But yeah, that's literally the whole point of this company is to work with great people that we really want to be with. Every movie that we make through our studio is, even if Ben and I aren't in it or he's directing and I'm not in it, we're connected around the work and trying to facilitate whoever's coming in and...

Do you guys give each other shit on set or In a professional environment, do you give each other a teasing, like brotherly relationship? Sure.

Sometimes- You want another take?

Because you might want another take, that thing. That's what I would do. I know you would. I would. That's what I would do.

We would. Yeah, I think you're going to want another take. But look, the good thing is I think it really helped with our writing 30 years ago. Jesus, 35 years ago when we started. Ben said this great thing, which was, Judge me for how good my good ideas are, not how bad my bad ideas are. It's a very profound thing for a 20-year-old to say because he recognized that we needed the freedom to barf out all those ideas. So often, as you know, when you're writing, you write down the bad idea because it's iterating. It's like that can build into a good idea. He was basically giving both of us the permission to just keep the window as wide as we could. I forget why I started that story. I haven't had enough coffee. This coffee is terrific, by the way.

If you want more, we can get you some. They say whenever someone writes their big, great American novel, and it's a big smash, and everyone thinks it's genius, they have nine other ones in their drawer that they wrote before that. I'm a big believer in, you just have to do time. To me, the process doesn't change. You could look at your career or Ben's and say, Oh, you guys have clicked off every single box that you would want to check. But still, when you show up, there's work to be done, and you have to be a little scared. There are scenes where you think, I didn't get this. I got to try it again. Time in the edit room, and all of that stuff. If they're paying you, it's work.

Yeah. We want to love everything we work on from now on. It's going back to your point. Yeah, it's a hugely labor-intensive thing to do no matter what. If you sign up for it, that means that you're willing to... You can't phone it in. Nor would I want to take a job for money that I was phoning. I never did that. I always thought whatever I was working on had a chance to be great. I was wrong most of the time. But I was working with the of it being something really wonderful for people to see.

But also people don't... The nice thing I have found, this very smart Simpsons writer, George Meyer, told me this a long time ago. Early in my career, when things were not going well, he said, People will remember you for your good work. He's absolutely right. I think about that all the time. He said, You're just laying tile individually, and it's going to make a bigger mosaic, which is what you did with your life. He was right that the work you made later on that didn't quite click with people, what they do is they seek out all these things you've made that are great, and then they almost rule the other ones out. In your mind, you're saying, Oh, man, so many times I've been wrong, and that's not what anyone else would say. That's just what you would say.

Yeah, exactly. It just made me think of someone like Shohe O'Tani, where they go whatever his career batting average ends up being, if it's 350 or whatever, 320, people aren't going to say, Well, he missed 680.

Yeah, exactly.

They're going to go.

You know what I mean? I did go to the game and shout that at him for the day because even when the Red Sox are out of it, I still go to games and wear a Red Sox hat.

Good for you, by the way. I do the same thing. I do do the same thing.

I did have an experience once Where Lorin Michiels... Sorry. I had an experience. I do that when I think my story is really good. No, Lorin Michiels, years ago, this is a very name-dropy story, but it was that iconic... It's 2004. When the Red Sox are playing the Yankees, and the Red Sox are way down. Lorin invited me to a Yankee game. He said, We're going to pick up a friend on the way, and he didn't tell me who. I'm sitting in the front of an SUV because he wanted me to make room for the friend. We pull up and leaning against a street lamp is Jack Nicholson. To this day, if I ran into Jack Nielson, I can't be cool about it, but I just was like, Just chill. Jack Nielson gets in the back and he just like, Jack, you're no, Konan. I'm up in front in that awkward, and I lean Just a little slit of headrest. I'm like, Hiya, Jack. Hey, Konan. Then we go off to the game. What I remember is sitting with him and Lauren at this game, and Lauren had told me beforehand, Don't wear a Red Sox cap because Lauren had these amazing seats, and he pretty much put all this pressure on me.

I went and I got a hat that had the Swiss flag. No, it's just a black cap. I had to get a neutral cap because I thought it's Lauren's seats. Jack's a big Yankee fan. If I'm wearing a Red Sox cap next to them, this is rude. It was this very hard thing to do. So I just wore a neutral cap.

What happened to you, man?

I know. It's Jack Nicholson, and I buckled. But I remembered him, Pedro Martínez was pitching, and it's a game that the Red Sox lost just before they had this amazing comeback and ended up winning the World Series and breaking the curse. Jack Nicholson was taunting Pedro Martínez, and he was shouting at him because it was getting a little later in the game, and he went, Arms getting heavy, Pedro. Arms getting heavy. I'm like, Fuck, that's good. That is so good. What a dick. It's Jack Nicholson. It's baseball. Yeah, it's baseball. Then I got a nice moment with him when we got home and got out of the car. He got out, and I got out, too, to just say, I was really nice hanging with you, Jack, tonight. He went, I guess his son was a big fan of the show. I didn't think Jack knew nothing about what I was doing, but he went. He was like, Son's crazy about you, Konan. I said, Nice to meet you, Jack. He said, Nice to meet you, too, Konan. Son's crazy about you. It's Konan this, Konan that, driving me fucking crazy. That's great. I was so happy.

I got back in the car and I sat back with Lorne. I didn't get in the front seat this time. I'm like, I'm back here where Jack Nicholson's at. He'll forget you tomorrow. I love to time travel. I love to go back to the guy in the crappy used car that I bought for literally a couple of hundred bucks at the airport from a rent-a-reck and put on counter makeup and then think about the things I get to do now or the things I've been able to do or had the good fortune to do. I just love time traveling back and forth to visit that guy and go, Isn't this crazy? I mean, if you showed up to the you who's a teenager and really into acting and said, This is what's going to happen, what a delight.

Well, and also to feel like you won the lottery, but your best friend won it, too. You know what I mean? We've talked about that, Ben and I. Also just the fact that it didn't seem weird to us in the 1980s that we were 14 and 16 years old, or 15 and 16, and going to New York by ourselves. To audition for things. Until we had kids, I think, that were that age, and we were like, Can you fucking believe that we were just going? Would you just let this kid go to San Francisco for the day by themselves? But it seemed totally normal to us. We didn't have families that were in the business. You know, Boston, there's nobody in the entertainment business up there.

I'm telling you, I think your parents were not in the business. My dad was a microbiologist, and my mom's a state lawyer. I never saw anything. There was a local show called Zoom. Yeah, of course. Zoom had kid actors in it, and it was made in Boston. At the end, they'd say, Made at the studio in Boston. I just couldn't believe someone was making something for television that was in Boston. Those Zoom kids were like the Beatles to me. I just couldn't believe But I didn't see anybody. I just didn't see anyone. Then Robert Yurick made Spencer for Hire, which took place in Boston. That was a big deal.

That was a huge deal. Yeah, we used to watch it every week. Then sometimes you'd go and you see trucks and you were like, Oh, my God, I think they're shooting here. That's for higher.

Well, I remember they shot an episode and they used my high school. This is long after I've left high school. I'm a writer at Saturday Night Live at this point, and I'm in my early 20s, and I'm at Saturday Night Live in this episode. We were hanging around the offices, flipping channels at night, and there was Spencer for Hire, and they shot it at my high school. I became that dick who sat there. I was like, Well, that's my high school. Then Robert Yurich's running through the hallways and he went, You can't get from the science wing to the gym using the A-level stairs. What are they thinking? What an idiot. I believe your mom, was she into child psychology? Is that right?

She was a professor of early childhood education.

My wife's mother, who passed recently, lovely woman, Pam, she had done a lot of work, I think, learning about kids and development and also as a therapist. When I would talk to her, sometimes I'd be reminded, Oh, no. I'm just telling her the problems with my day. Then I realized that she has this incredible intelligence and knowledge that she would apply to it. I realized, Oh, she's psycho I'm analyzing. Did you have that from your mom?

No. I think in the sense that she understood the stages of child development and gave my brother and me everything we needed for our brains to develop the way they were supposed to develop. Oh, that's good. In the sense that... I mean, back then, her big bugaboo was like, screens was television. How much TV do you watch? What are you watching? Now it's just the I've completely just jumped the shark with screens and the ubiquity of them and what that means for kids and brain development and stuff like that. We're basically, this is a species-wide experiment at this point.

Yeah, Exactly.

Because there are these natural things that have to happen. It's like open-ended play and things like that for kids that really just help them figure out all the strategies to figure out the world.

And boredom.

You need boredom. Boredom was great. I remember how bored you'd be as a kid? Then you'd figure something out. You'd figure out a way to entertain yourself, or you'd go make something up.

No, I always say to my wife early on, We got to leave plenty of room for them to be bored. She said, Don't you worry. Just tell more of your When I was a kid's stories. Tell your Nicholson story again. Kids, he's a big deal. But no, I mean, you're exactly right. It's exactly right. You have to leave room for all of that. Then I do worry about it. I think it's a scary thing.

Yeah, me too.

When I walk through airports, and I just thought of this when I was in Hong Kong just recently, everyone was on their screen. Sometimes people would just click I mean, and they're not even kids anymore. It's everybody.

You just feel like- I see it with myself, how quickly I'll allow my attention to get colonized by these devices, where I'll just sit there and disappear down a rabbit hole and watch a Then an hour goes by and you go, Well, wait a minute. Chris Knowles, very famously, doesn't have a smartphone. I think he said publicly, it's just he wants to preserve that time, the exact time we're talking about, where he can think about things more deeply. Let your mind wander. Let your mind wander rather than just instantly give it the dopamine hit of Candy Crush. That's what you're doing for an hour? No, I play I have a quick game of backgammon on my phone. I'm like, Oh, I've got a quick game of back gamut. It's like, How am I doing?

You should do one more Bourne movie where you're just on your phone. Jason's on his phone the whole time alone.

Then it gets back to the CIA, and everyone's just on their phone. They're not looking for them, really.

They're not looking for you. You're not running from them. Nothing's getting done. Then the tech overlords are making trillions of dollars.

That's the movie.

I really enjoyed the rip. I want to make sure I get it out there. That Steven Yund is in this. You have a great cast.

It's a great cast. Teyana Taylor, Steven Yund. I mean, it's Kyle Chandler's in it. There's just a wonderful group of actors.

There was one moment where when I was watching it, and I think I heard him before I saw him, but I heard Kyle Chandler's voice, and he said something a little like, Now, what are we doing here? I just heard the coach. I'm like, It's Coach. But again, he plays someone completely different because you're all really good actors. Steven Yung, he's a friend, and we've done a lot of stuff together.

He's a phenomenal actor. I just adore him. So do I. He actually just went from doing that to... Ben directed another movie that's going to come out next year that Steven's in. He's in that as well. We love him.

Also, I want to point out the story here is a really interesting one because, and I'm not going to give anything away, but the rip refers to money that, I guess, has been seized in illegal activity. You guys, there's so much great lingo in this movie.

Yeah, it's all real cop lingo. It's all based on... Joe Carnahan wrote it and directed it, and It's loosely based on the experience of this unit down in Miami. They have units that go looking for drugs, and then they have units that go looking for money, for drug money, basically. And dogs, literally, that sniff for drugs and dogs that sniff for cash.

That I didn't know. I didn't either. When I saw the movie, you get to this one house and the dog is sniffing and you know that there's cash inside. I thought, I've never heard of that, a dog that knows there's cash. Yeah, in there. They'll soon have one that can detect Bitcoin. That server. It spoke a little bit. It just no server.

Wait, the dog speaks and it's looking for Bitcoin? We're skipping past the fact that the dog speaks.

I think it's more impressive that it can smell various chips. Matt's writing now, Don't do this podcast again.

No, I'm just on the thought experiment.

Both Matt's are writing that. I always like it that the least impressive thing an animal does is speak. It's more like, How did he know which door to go? And go on the right one. Wow, he seems to know which door to go in. He did speak. But one of the things the film does is you have to try and figure out who's playing what angle and who's right, who isn't right, who's a good person, who's a bad person. I was calling it. I was being that wise ass. It's like, All right, and I got it wrong.

Yeah, you don't know who's who, really. I didn't know. It's these guys, they hit this house, they think there's going to be $75,000 or $150,000 in the house, and suddenly they find $20 million in the wall, and they know that that means it's cartel money, which means that they're probably going to come try to get it. It suddenly becomes this... They're stuck in this house because they have to count the money on site, which is a rule because they're to- I didn't know that either.

Before they can bring it in- At least in Miami, that's the- You have to count it all on the site because it's too easy for someone. If it's an amount of money like that, someone could take $600,000 and put it in their pocket, and that's just what the count was. You have to count it there.

You have to count it together and make sure that everybody agrees what the count is. Then you go and you drop it off and they count it, and it's got to match the number that you report and all of that. But meanwhile, you have these cops who are their captain has just been killed at the start of the movie. You're going, something's going on with these guys. Is there corruption within this unit?

Are these people corrupt? Yeah. Are they corrupt? Are the supposed heroes of the movie?

Are the heroes? Yeah. Can we trust the heroes of the movie? You don't know. That's the fun of the movie.

I do love the jargon. And afterwards, I was walking around the house, I said, Someone jacked my rip. Liza was like, Shut up. I enjoyed it, too, but shut up. Well, I really enjoyed it. I think I've interviewed you a number of times over the years, but I love it when you stop by and check in because I'm a huge fan of you and your career and your work, and you're a very nice, thoughtful, funny guy, so I love to hang with you whenever you get this.

I'll come back next time. I'm not sure if you guys will have a space.

Yeah, exactly. Look, I'm sorry. Hey, okay, thanks.

Well, yeah, okay.

Do you realize I haven't heard that in a while. Matt, this was an audition to get on the podcast. Did you know that?

Yeah, I'm out of practice.

Yeah, we'll let you know. Thank you.

We'll let you know. You do have my contact information, right?

That's how big this podcast has become. Matt has to come in on audition. But Yeah. Thank you so much for doing this. You're doing it. Thanks for having me. Yeah, appreciate it.

Yeah, appreciate it, guys. Thank you.

I was sitting around The other day and my buddy Matt Myra texted me a picture that you might be interested in. If we could throw it up on that. Sure.

Oh, my God. What is that?

This is a sign that's posted outside one of your former residences, the Cochrane Avenue apartment. Did you know about this?

I didn't.

Where is It's in LA, right?

Yes. Do you remember this apartment? Of course I do. This was a formative part of my life. When I was first getting started in LA, Greg Daniels and I, our first place, he was my writing partner. He has gone on to many great things. He and I share an apartment in Brentwood first. Then we realized we need to move out of the West Side and be with the young people because both of us were just desperate to meet anyone our age and have social lives. We both moved into Hollywood, and I found an apartment. A friend of mine, Cynthia Stevenson, actress, a very talented, incredible woman. She said, Hey, Konan, I'm leaving my apartment. Do you want to take it over? It was on Cochrane Avenue. I moved into, it was a first-floor apartment. This would have been 1986, I think. I think I lived there. '86, '87, '88. I didn't go out and shop for any furniture The only thing- It says that in the sign.

Oh, it does? For the listener, they can see this on at Team Coco podcast on Instagram, as well as our YouTube channel. Here's what the sign says, 'Conan O'Brien, former Cochrane Avenue resident. There's a picture of you as a Bronze bust. 'Conan Christopher O'Brien is an Emmy-winning writer, comedian, and host who redefined late-night television. From Saturday Out Live to The Simpsons to his own groundbreaking shows, he has brought laughter to millions. I'd like to fact check on that.

Hundreds.

In 2025, he added another milestone, hosting the Academy Awards. In the 1980s, Konan lived right here on Cochrane Avenue, finishing his apartment with street fines and surviving on ramen noodles and tuna mixed with Miracle Whips. Yes.

Oh, God.

It was a time of struggle on ingenuity and questionable mayonnaise-based decisions. From these humble beginnings, this street witnessed the rise of a comedy icon. May this moment, a poster affixed with zip ties, inspire Cochrane Cochrane Avenue residents to chase their dreams, enhance their originality, and one day, upgrade to a home with more than one bathroom. So this is temporary. I didn't realize this.

It's phone call poster boy.

We have to. I mean, my God, we've got to Wow, look at this.

This is dedicated February 27th, 2025 by the Cochrane Committee of Konin Connoisseurs. Actually, just one guy who lives on Cochrane Avenue, occasionally listens to Konin's podcast, had some free time, and no real authority to put up a monument but did it anyway.

Who is this guy? Or a girl. Okay. You mean what? It says actually just one guy. Oh, sorry. I was trying to accuse you being sexist. I know. When actually, you're just guilty of paying attention. It could be. No. Well, first of all, I want to thank this guy because that's really funny. Old me, I always think of Ghost Me, the 160-pound cone who lived at Cochrane Avenue and furnished his apartment with all stuff I found on Cochrane Avenue. Oh, God. It's just flea ridden? I mean, it's just tables. People used to just put furniture out. I've done that. Yeah, lamps, everything. One of my friends gave me a cutout of the Miss America winner that he had a life-size cut out of her in a gown holding with her sach. Your friend gave it to you. You bought it and it was your girlfriend. Yes and yes. No, shout out to Randy Clempert, who gave it to me. I had it in my apartment along with furniture I found, and I thought everything was just fine and lived off of that diet of ramen noodles.

Is it tuna mixed with Miracle? Yeah. Wait, did you come up with this?

No, I- That's an abomination. I know. I think it was something that happened back at Cunard. I think the crime started in Brooklyn, Massachusetts, and then I brought it with me.

That's listed with shellfish in the Bible as an abomination.

Yes, and so am I, by the way. And so, yeah, I lived on Cochrane, and now someone... This is the part of this culture that I find endlessly fun, is someone made that and then put all these self-deprecating disclaimers at the bottom. And it's really fun. I just love that. And I love that someone is memorializing my life on Cochrane Avenue. Back in the day, yeah, I would say '86 to '88. And then I left that apartment to go to, I believe, Saturday Night Live.

Did Miss America come with you?

She did. I was married to her for a while. To the cardboard cut-out. I was married to her. I was married to her. I was married to her. Cardboard cut out for five years. Then she left me. Oh, no. She said emotional cruelty. You left her out in the rain. Yeah, I was crying. She was with Bezos for a while. Anyway, he built a yacht for her made of cardboard. They sailed the seven seas until the boat fell apart.

Recycled into some Amazon package Jim.

Yeah, she's now a packing tube. Anyway. That's really cute that a fan did that for you. It is. What's that? That's really cool and cute that a fan did that for you. A shout out to that fan. That was a very fun, cool happening to create. Yeah, whatever gender he is. I love that. You know what? Occasionally, I pass that apartment. Not too long ago, I passed that apartment because when I'm driving from my house to our studio, I get off the 10, and it depends on what exit I take, and I start cutting north to our Hollywood Larchmont recording studio. Sometimes I'll find myself on Cochrane, and I always pause and just look at that apartment and go, Oh, yeah. That kid did okay. Did all right. Then a policeman always says, Move it along. Nothing to see here. He's a 1920s. He's got that little bat. He's got the night stick. Yeah, the night stick. Baton. All right, move it along.

Move it along No more visiting Ghost you of 1986.

Move it. He always knows exactly what I'm doing. That's just a trick of the mind. Move it along. No more Ghost you. Those days are past. There's only now. There's no future, there's no past. I'm like, Wow, he's done a lot of work. Oh, no, it's a Buddhist mantra. He's the Ghost. All right. Well, anyway, thank you, random fan who occasionally listens, whoever you are. That was a cool thing to do.

Konan O'Brien needs a friend. With Konan O'Brien, Sonam of Cessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and nick Leal. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our Supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our Associate Talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and Mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brenda Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnik. Talent Booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kohn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Konan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It, too, could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at siriusxm. Com/konan. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Konan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.