Transcript of Judd Apatow Returns

After a magical visit to the Kingdom of Caring, there's been a spooky mashup in Happy Meal, and the Care Bears are all jumbled up. Join the Care Bears on their most spell-binding adventure yet. Some fun, some food. It's all inside this Happy Meal. Until the fourth of November from 11: 00 AM includes one preselected Booker Toy, Wastocks Last. Subject to availability, fair ordering policy applies. Hi, my name is Judd Apatau, and I feel very needy about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walking loose, climb the fence, books and pens. I can tell that we are going to be friends.

I can tell that we are going to be friends. Hey, Conan O'Brien here. Listening to the highly unedited Just off the cuff, Conan O'Brien needs a friend. We never stop and start again. No, this is definitely not a restart. No, not at all. Sonia, how are you? You doing good? I'm great. And get it right or we're going to have to do it over again. I am doing great. Thank you. How are you, Matt Gourley? I'm good, thanks. What's on your mind? Hey, I have something off the cuff. We haven't talked about this at all. I was going to get you there. You don't have to cut me off and say, Hey, I've got something. I was going to get you there with, Hey, what's on your mind? On a recent episode, we talked about having a listener in high school that was listening during high school. Then Adam had mentioned that he knew someone that was in seventh grade, Giles, that listened. But we now have beat that record. A friend of mine, Jeremy Connor, has a son named George who loves the show, started when he was eight, is nine years old now, and listens to the show and would love an autograph.

Would you mind signing this poster for him? I'm not signing that. You have to. No. No. He's eight. I want some scratch. I want my payday. This is so incredible. He's nine, but he listened, started listening when he was eight. Oh, well, nine. That's when the real cynicism kicks in. But this is for you, George. Thanks for listening. Yeah, Yeah, of course. This is so nice. I love that I'm doing this. It's nothing more exciting to listen to a guy sign something. Scribbly. You can watch it on YouTube. Yeah, okay. Squeak, squeak, Squeak.

It's also very fascinating to watch someone sign a poster.

And to hear someone comment on someone signing a poster. Well, there we go. Yeah, that was good use of our time. Listen, I don't understand how a nine-year-old, what were they connected to? We don't have any listeners over 14. That's not true. Okay. That's not true. I can beat all of this. There's a woman who is seven months pregnant, and her child has been listening in utero to the podcast and hates it, loathes it. Kicks a lot. Yeah. Kicks a lot when you're listening. I'm just trying to imagine. Maybe they can tell that- My friend Jeremy was saying that when this podcast gets edgy, it still has a innocence at its heart, and he felt that that was okay the child. I think maybe that's it. But that might have been negated by the recent Deez Nuts, Milk Dem Titties episode. Deez Nuts, we did do a lot of... You know what? Yeah, but you can appreciate that on two levels. I used to watch the original Batman series with Adam West and just appreciate it on the crime fighting. When they were making jokes about politics and things like that, I didn't pick up on any of it.

I just love. Then years later, I got all the great dry humor and great references. I picked up on that much later. I think that's how people listen to our podcast. You can listen to it on this very friendly crime fighting level. Then there's all the nuances that we pack in here. What you're saying is people should do a relisten to find the onion layers. Yes, and they should listen to all the new ads that we place in there because there's dynamic ad insertion. Talk on that. Yeah, a little bit more about that process. I want to hear about that from you. This is a technical idea. This is an idea I had. What's that? A lot of people think I don't really know how podcasts work, but my idea a while ago was, Hey, we should have dynamic ad insertion. What is that exactly? Well, it's when you have dynamic insertion of a four-minute ad. If you could expand on that a little bit. Sometimes there's something that doesn't have an ad in it. If it does have an ad, it's flaccid and not moving. I think, well, it should be moving or dynamic, and it should be inserted, so it's inside.

That's how you explain this to the people that put it in the process. The ad should be- I did. I called up some audio whizzes. Adam, jump in here for a second. Aren't I correct? No, don't jump in here. I'd like to hear you keep going, actually.

Why do you need Adam? Why you don't need Adam? I'm actually still reeling from the fact that you said dynamic ad insertion. Just off the top of your head, I'm impressed.

When you put the SiriusXM chip into my head, that was one of the words that was readily available. It's a dynamic ad insertion. It means... Listen, if you can't handle what I'm saying or you can't understand it, don't attack me. I'm telling you in a very authoritative way that I had an idea about two and a half years ago that ads could be inserted dynamically. Close to 10 years, probably. No, not the way that we're doing it. My idea was that it could be, what's a good word for constantly changing, always in motion, dynamic. And that it could be put into something which would be, I don't know, inserted and that you could use it on an ad. I started that idea. Remember this? It was yesterday. I called you in and I said, I've got three words to say to you, dynamic ad insertion. You flicked out, and then you left the room, and then the next thing you know, we were doing dynamic ad insertion. We were the first to do it. I do apologize because you've clearly demonstrated your knowledge on this subject. It is a way that people can have their ads dynamically inserted.

It is one of the reasons that I think this podcast used to make about, I think it was $300 a year. But after Dynamic Ad Insertion, we now make more than the gross national product of many countries throughout the world, including Switzerland and countries that border Switzerland.

I can't believe that you even think about Dynamic Ad Insertion, and you actually understand how it works.

For you to say- I've never seen Adam so excited. I know.

He's really happy. I am.

I remember the day I came in and I said, If we're using microphones, I want them to be sure microphones. Why don't you just take some time to look at that? You just checked it. To look at that. What are you talking about? Also, it's here, too.

Yeah, you said that.

I remember you saying that. You're like, Guys, let's sure it up, everybody. What was the model, though? What model? What's interesting. What I wanted was I wanted it to be in this shape. Remember that? I drew the shape for And do these mics need a preamp or no? Well, I said as long as it's an SM7 B or 8, I don't have my glasses on. It's a B. What's that? It's a B. Well, I said B or 8. Because the 8s are fine, but you really want the B. And so once I knew that we had the Sure and that it was an 8 and not a B, I was like, we are ready to go and we should have dynamic ad insertion. And what I've done is I've created many platforms, and these are trilingual, quadrilingual, quadrilateral. We have achieved a new level. These are actually dynamic microphones as well. So dynamic. And I've had this mic inserted. Excuse me. You know what? We just lost our eight-year-old viewer. Parents took the-Oh, you think we just lost them now? Yeah. I think they tuned out a minute ago. I don't think so. When you said dynamic ad insertion.

No, if his kids had a lot of chocolate milk, he's reven. You were sexualizing it, too, a little bit. Well, that's the thing I was commenting on. I apologize, George. I apologize, Jeremy, Giles. I don't think children should be listening to this. I don't know. I don't think anybody should be listening to this. You know what? We finally agree on something. I watched Pulp Fiction when I was 12 in the theaters with my parents. I watched the movie 10 when I was about six or seven. What? Yeah. I know. Can you believe that?

Oh, yeah.

No, I can. But I learned a lot. Oh, my God. Oh, Bo Derek, Running on the Beach. Pure cinema. Remember the movie Nine and a Half Weeks? Do I remember it? I watched that when I was 47 years old. Still a little It was early for you. Oh, I didn't know what was happening. You were so uncomfortable. Why are they lying together? What's happening? My wife was like... She was busy with the kids, and she was like, No, let me explain. Why are they in bed moving? Why is their nap so wet? Why did you do that for? You always go too far. I don't think I did. That's gross, guys. Do you know anything about going towards the line? You just jump right over. Yeah, that's not cool. I call them like I say. This is a clean podcast, sir. You just started this whole thing by talking about how there's a two-year-old listening who loves the show. I use any incendiary words, nap and wet. They're not inherently dirty. You're an awful person. Anyway, let's get into it. My guest today is not an awful person. Good transition to director, producer, and screenwriter behind such movies as Knocked Up Super Bad, and the 40-year-old Virgin.

He now has a new visual memoir. It's very dynamic, I'm told, titled Comedy Nerd: A Lifelong Obsession in Stories and Pictures. I'm excited he's here today. Judd Apatow, welcome. This is interesting because you've just flooded my voicemail with just demanding that you come on the show, which came across as very needy. Who's going to be the neediest? This is like a real battle of wills. This is two guys facing each other in high noon.

I'm the only guy who begs to get on podcast. I'm just checking the boxes because it is a way to find out if someone's your friend. Like, recently, I got to plug my book Comedy Nerd, so I asked someone if I could be on their podcast, and they said no. I was like, Whoa, they must have checked.

Who was it? You got to tell me.

Heisenheisensen.

Didn't hear it. Heisenheisensen? Heisenheisensen has the number one podcast in the business. I just got on his podcast. You must have been on there. He since kicked you off. They're not airing it. Heisenheisensen. Well, I think that person showed great tact. No. What? I think oversight. Oh, you're right. It should be something that is good for Judd.

But this is a business. I need to realize this is a business. For some people, they got numbers. They got to maintain Oh, not us.

That is not us. That guy was like, We need asses in seats. We need sex appeal. I'm like, No, I'm the sex appeal. Oh, wait. Cue cricket noise. Can you have cricket noise come in right here? Here we go. No, you could source it. You could source it. No, I don't want to do the work.

You got the cute new haircut.

You know what's so funny? You're the second person today. I came in and people went, Great haircut. No, I was flying, got home, I took a shower, I went to sleep, and then put a baseball cap in the morning, and it just flattened out my hair. I've had no haircut. You literally woke up like this. I woke up like this and stumbled in.

What if it's better than the way you've done your hair your entire life? It's true.

It is nice. It does look really nice. I should do this way. Yeah. No, this is me just being me, man. It's just that. Oh, God. Now you're ruined.

I've been editing Konan because he's in a few documentaries that I'm working on.

You're making nine documentaries, and I'm making a lot of- All of them. Sometimes, do you ever get confused and it's a documentary about Steve Martin and you have me talking about John Candy, and it doesn't even matter anymore.

The funniest one that you're in is the Elvis Comeback Special Documentory because you are on, not as Konan, funny man, you're on as Elvis Expert. There's no irony. No one mocks the idea that it's you, and you seem to know more than anyone I've ever seen about Elvis, which is something I thought you just like Lincoln or something.

I have to tell you this. They shot that a long time ago or a while ago, and I forget things. I, this is a real story, I'm at home. I love all things Elvis. I see that there's this thing about the '68 Comeback Special. I'm like, Oh, I'll watch this. I'm watching it in my room, in the TV room. I'm watching it, and all of a sudden I heard a very familiar voice said, You have to remember where Elvis was in his career in 1968. I'm like, What the fuck? I'm in the documentary talking about- A lot? A lot. I didn't remember that I had done this. The next thing I know, I'm nodding, going, He's right. I like this guy. Yeah, I'd do him.

Oh, God. How do they even know you're the Elvis guy?

I think it's out there a little bit. It is?

I've been following you my whole life. I've never known that it was enough to go Doc.

No, it's Elvis and Son of Sam. I'm in seven Son of Sam docs. We're not here to talk about Son of Sam. We're getting to him in the second half. We are here to talk about you, Judd Apatow, and you have a book, Comedy Nerd, which is extremely impressive. I got this book, and I'm looking at it, and one of the things that immediately drew me to this book is it's gorgeous photos. It's all photos. I can flip through it. I don't have to read as much as I... Then, of course, it's It's dispersed with great observations, but it's basically your career. You've had a career that merits a book of this size because you've made so many great films, and you've been involved in so much television and just comedy in general. If you're a comedy nerd, this is the book to get. I really loved it.

Oh, thanks. Yeah, because I've always been a hoarder. I found a picture of my room from when I was in sixth grade. In my closet, you could see I have my Phil Collins's Autographed Album and my Dave Kingman, New York Metts Autographed Bat. It's like the Smithsonian in my head. When we were doing the book, I just scanned everything, and then I got all the photos from all the movies and then wrote some essays after the fact. But I also finished it I thought it's so long that it feels like a textbook about workaholism. This is someone who needed mental help and should have found a better way to get help sooner.

Well, that's why I think it's good. At the end, you have a, If you need help like me, and then which medications you've tried, which clearly aren't working.

Are you nostalgic as a person? Do you look back all the time?

I try not to look back too much because I want to be in it now and making things now. I I'm very sentimental. If I just bump into a writer that worked with me in '93 or '94 or an intern, I'm very sentimental for, Oh, my God, you were there. That was so weird. What a special time that was. What a weird raw, scary time that was. But I like to connect with people from that era.

It's weird being older. Is it? Isn't it a weird- Oh, take it easy?

What? No, I like getting older. I was just talking to a friend of mine. No, no. Sona, we're not talking about you and Matt. We're I'm talking about older, older. No, no, no, no. Jud and I fought in the Korean War.

He saved my life. We're having memories of Konan from the '80s. You have stories about Sandler from 40 years ago. Here's the weird thing.

It's too much time. Has it been 25 years since 40-year-old Virgin or 20 years? Twenty. Okay. I remember when I was in college and I was working on the Humor magazine and old grads would come back, and I'd be like, Oh, my God, these fossils. I would say that to their faces. I would say the Natural History Museum is down the block. But I've done the math, and I realized that if I showed up now, it would be the equivalent of someone showing up in When I was in college who had been drafted in 1941. I mean, it's like the same. For real. I cannot accept that.

No. Just by being older, you're creepy. If I just go into a dance club and do nothing but stand there, people will call the police.

You just being on an elevator is creepy. You're on an escalator, creepy. That is the best. That is such a great observation that you don't have to do it. It's not, Oh, he's hitting on a 20-year-old. No. He's standing there. It's the less you do that's creepy. He's drinking a glass of water, and it's creepy.

It's like in New York, there's a park for kids, and there's these kids like little rides and stuff on it. There's a big sign that says, You're not allowed in the park without a kid. If I just walk in there, I'm a creepy person. I'm not allowed to enjoy the joy of children.

Then you see a creep walking around with a ventriloquish dummy. Get out of here.

But it is weird having memories that are from decades ago. Just knowing people from their very beginnings to all the things they accomplished. It blows your mind like the Mark Twain thing for you and with Sandler when we were all there for Sandler. You just can't believe all this stuff happened.

Right. I still refuse to believe that somehow it's been legitimized. It all felt so wrong that we would be allowed to do anything. Now, all these years later, at some of these nice events where you get an award or something, they're acting like, Well, what an esteemed body of work. I want to say, No, I shouldn't be here now.

This is absurd. It's a master baiting bear.

He was getting the word out on a real problem that I was struggling with.

But you got your Mark Twain Award during the Trump administration, which makes it so much sweeter.

Yeah, it was well- Because he could have killed it.

It didn't hit his radar.

I don't think it hit his radar. I think he didn't think I was that, Conor O'Brien. Speaking of legitimizing, you might get the last legitimate One.

Yeah.

Well, they might. I don't know what they're going to do now. It's a real collector's item. I don't know what they're going to do. Yeah, I might be the last comedian ever.

It's going to be Fred Travolina next year.

I'll be there to support him. Talk about getting older and our influences when we were young. But one of the things that is a touchstone for both of us is Mel Brooks.

It's our whole childhood was just that run of high anxiety and all of them. That's why it was fun to make a documentary about Mel. First of all, I got to talk to him for 10 hours. Just to get to ask him questions for 10 hours is amazing. Then it's also the doc's interesting because it's emotional. He talks about his life and how he feels about it. It's not just the funny stories. He really goes deep into his friendship and his marriage and his life and his kids. You see what a great guy he is in a way that I think we see him as a hilarious guy, but he's also this wonderful person.

Do you think something that happens when people get to Mel's age, if they're lucky enough to get to Mel's age, I don't know what he is now, would he be in his- Ninety-nine. Jesus Christ. They may be able to access emotions more than they could earlier in their life. Especially with men, some of the walls may be come down and they become more accessible at this stage in their existence to really being in touch with stuff that they might not have been able to access when they were 40, 50, 60.

Even in the doc, he talks about living through the depression, which is wild. When he was a kid, his father died when he was really young, and he just talks about his aunt took a job in a factory to help take care of her sister's kids. Just him talking about what that meant to him because he really had to work in the, what was it called? The schmata business? Yeah, the garment. The garment. Schmata. Schmata. He talks about it. It's a miracle that that's not where I landed up. The fact that I had this career and didn't just go into the garment district is incredible.

He told me once, he was telling me about being in World War II, he's in Europe, and the Germans are on the other side of the river, and he would mock them, and they would yell back and mock him. That's just the soldiers yelling back across the river. I thought, no, Brooks fought Hitler. For real? The thing is, No, this isn't a weird... It doesn't get more real than that. We talk about any comedian, I think, or artist who fought Hitler, they're writing from a checkbook that I could never match. Springtime for Hitler. Yeah, and it was such a big part of his work. I know that there have been... I think he told me once that the producer was on stage in New York, was a massive hit that someone once came down on the front of the theater and was screaming about, You can't do this. You can't because it's making light of Hitler and everything. I thought, Mel Brooks can. Do you know what I mean? If anyone can, Mel Brooks can because he's a Jew who fought Hitler. There's no politically correct in that situation with Mel or incorrect with Mel Brooks.

I asked him, I said, Was anyone else really going hard at Hitler the way you did? He's like, I don't think so. Because you do think, who really went just hard at Hitler before him? I mean, Charlie Chaplin, I guess before all that started up, but There's not another guy who really was obsessed with.

It's weird. A lot of performers in comics from that era were very pro-Hitler. Oh, no. From the '60s. Laffin was really a pro-Hitler show.

Red Skelton.

Red Skelton. Oh, my God. I was going to get us sued by an estate. I got sued by Red Buttons once because we did something in the... Very early, like the first weeks of the late night show, we did some clutch cargo and we did some joke about Red Buttons that was just literally an aside. The next day, the news came on, and they said, And when we come back, Red Buttons sued Conor O'Brien for $20 million. That's how I found out. Oh, my God. That's how I found out the local Chuck Scarborough, the local news. Anyway, it all got resolved. I paid him.

My grandfather produced a Red Buttons album. When my grandfather died suddenly of a heart attack, I was 16, and I'm at the funeral, and I'm just crying so hard. In the middle of crying, someone walks over and goes, Jud, this is Red Buttons. I guess like a comedy nerd. I was just like, Red Buttons.

Let me sue you for two minutes. You immediately stopped crying. Exactly. Red Buttons. Yeah, and how is Mel? I'd have to ask you.

I mean, the funny thing about Mel is his memory, short term, long term, could not be better. So much better than mine. Mine is so bad. I'll go to leave house and get in the passenger seat and just sit there. I'm all scramble. It's already happening. Mel, he doesn't reach for a name from the '50s. He's just incredibly sharp. It was a great conversation because he really can look back at a hundred years and tell you about everything.

Unbelievable.

That's great. He's still crazy funny. If he wants to be, he's I remember me and Bill Hater went to visit him years ago, and then at the end of it, he goes, Come again, but not soon. That's a great line. The 8 Euro Meal Deal from McDonald's. Get a cheeseburger or mayo, chicken, fries, four McNuggets, and a drink for guess what?

That's right, 8 Euro. It's not called the 8 Euro Meal Deal for nothing.

From 11: 00 AM, not available on delivery. Carbonated Softdrink upgrade fee supply. Participating restaurants subject to availability.

Let's talk about you and your career, because to discuss this book, we really need to go back to this interesting arc that you had, which is at the beginning, it's you want to do stand-up. You want to do stand-up comedy. You're a performer. Then you have this audition for Jim Hensen. I have to ask you about this Well, it's fascinating to me. You claim that this audition with Jim Hensen is the reason you decided to not pursue stand-up anymore. Is that true?

It certainly was a key linchpin of the decision. But I was living with Adam Sandler in the Valley We had this little apartment, and Adam would be on MTV every once in a while, or The Cosby Show was one of Theo's friends. There was this audition to be on a pilot where a couple of comedians would travel across the country. They were going to give the comedians cameras, their own video cameras, right in the beginning of when that seemed exciting. We'll give them a camera and they'll shoot it themselves. All these people were handing in their auditions that they would make themselves. Me and Sandler went down to the beach with my grandmother and made some weird, I don't know, what we did. Then I had a list of ideas of things you could maybe do on the show. I find out later that I didn't get it, but then they say to me, But he'd like to buy all your he is. Then they said, But he didn't want you because he thought you lacked warmth.

First of all, why tell you, Oh, and one more thing before you hang up?

I just thought, This guy, as Kermit taught me to read, this is the warmest man. It's like Kermit telling you to fuck off.

That's so great.

But in a way, I think he was right. I was probably repressed and self-conscious. He was smart enough to go I could feel it when I was around Sandler, Jim Carrey as a kid. They are just way looser than me and just charismatic, and I'm just in my head. I think it hurt me because I'm like, he got me. He knows I'm too shut down right now. Then when writing opportunities came up, I thought, well, Jim Edson thought I should be a writer. I would just take the writing opportunities and do less of the performing things.

I always think.

Then he died. Not long after that, so I'm Before he could take it back. I was so upset about it, and I'm just like, God, what does he know? This is a jerk. Then they're like, he's dead. I'm like, Oh, he's the most important person in a young person's life. Sesame Street, I mean, I put in a billion hours watching it.

Also, he sounded like Kermit when he spoke, which makes it even worse because it's Kermit saying, you don't have warmth. You don't seem like a warm person to me. You like warmth. Yeah, you like warmth. You're just not warm. Fuck off and die. Go shine your shoes, you mut.

I didn't get to clean it up with them later.

I'm fascinated by the leap to directing. What made you think, Oh, no, I will direct?

Well, I went to college and studied screenwriting and took some directing classes, and I was just so terrible. My films, I mean, if I think about them, I won't sleep at night. About that, I showed them to people. I couldn't even believe that the two pieces of film you would tape together, that you would see them and it would change images. I was like a four-year-old, and so I lost confidence in my ability to do it. I also had an irrational fear that I would get the eye lines wrong and I would cut a movie together and everyone would be looking in the wrong direction. That probably made me not do it for 10 years. It was an irrational fear of eye lines.

It is a real problem in your film. I've gone back, even your biggest hits, no one's looking in the right direction. It was very distracting.

Even now, I don't know what the lenses do. I always have to hire Janusz Kaminski to shoot it because I'm so bad that I need a really smart person. I delayed it. When we did the Ben Stiller show, I never pushed to direct any of the sketches. I just was so afraid. Then I was working at Larry Sanders, and then one day, Gary Shandling literally just walked in my office and goes, You're doing next week off of nothing. No conversation.

He threw you into the deep end of the pool.

Yeah, immediately, and came down to set and helped and was so helpful. That was the first time that I ever did it, and I just had to figure it out. Then we did Freaks and Geeks, and I did a bunch of those and a bunch of undeclared.

So your confidence is growing. Yeah. But once you start working with a huge budget and it's a movie, how terrified were you with your first... What was your first directing experience in a movie?

Well, I just worked as a producer on Anchor Man, and that was McKay's first time directing a movie. It was really fun to be there and watch Adam go through the experience. Adam was very improvisational. In addition to this amazing script he wrote with Will, he was doing what Stiller was doing, which is a lot of playing in addition to the script. When we were doing the Four Year Old Virgin, I thought, Okay, I'm going to do that. Even with the dramatic scenes, I think there's something good could come out of ripping. But I remember two days before we were going to start shooting, I was just really nervous, and it also grills the lead. I'm going like, I think this is the guy. I watched a TV show that Steve was on, a sitcom that had been canceled, and they were burning off the episodes. It was like a terrible show. Two nights before we started shooting, I just watched an episode and I watched Steve and I went, Oh, this could be that bad. If I don't do a good job, I could make Steve look so bad because this show made Steve look bad, and Steve's a genius.

It really scared me to my core like, Oh, there's a way to really be a terrible director. I just shot so much footage, like a million feet of film. I had Steve and everybody improvising for hours. The crew hated me. They were so bored. It was the crew from the Unforgiven. It was literally Clint Eastwood's crew.

Oh, my God. Guess what? Clint Eastwood, famously, is a one-take director Do a take, and he is famously like, Well, it's five o'clock. Everyone go home now. They love Clint, and then you come along. He's fantastic.

I'm doing three hours of improv on Steve peeing with a boner. Then The whole crew would look at me like, I can't believe. I can't believe. Then the DP, when he saw the finished movie, he just said to me, Oh, now I see what you were doing. But they really did look annoyed, and that made me scared. But I just thought, I just have to go into editing knowing that if it's not working, I have other stuff to fix it with.

Whenever someone has a great success, they can actually send the wrong signal to other people. I think one of the things you did is you made these terrific movies, got all these really funny people. Yes, you had a good script, but you're also letting them play. You've got a deep bench. You're trying different combinations of things. I think people started to watch your early films and think, Oh, yeah, it's just letting people rift. You think, Well, if it's Judd and he's got all of his people and he knows exactly what he wants to get, yeah. I think other people who don't know that world took that as, Oh, that's how you do it. Then I remembered seeing just a ton of comedies where they would just let people who shouldn't be Riffing, Walter Cronkite and Dame Edna, and it would be painful.

Yeah, because if you can tell an actor thinks they're being funny, It instantly is awful. If there's any self-awareness of like, This is really working. The cockiness of doing improv well, even if the jokes are good, takes you out of the scene. It only really works if people are so deep in character that when you're in editing, it could seem seamless, almost like a documentary. When it works, it's like, Oh, this was like a documentary of piquing in on people. When it doesn't work, it looks like someone thinks they're hilarious. Then that creeps you out. You can't have that in it.

I recently saw one of the Pink Panthers, which are my touchstone movies, Peter Sellers, Blake Edwards. It was one of the later ones, and I think it's a scene with Diane Canon. This is how clearly she was directed to do it, so it's not on her, but it's Clouseau is being Clouseau, Peter Sellers, and she's laughing and finding it really funny. I was watching it with my son. This is a couple of years ago, and both of us were like, Oh, no. No, you can't. No one in the scene can think he's funny. This is... Someone just poured sewage into our soup. We can't eat this. Do you know what I mean? It was just so awful. But I love that my son saw that, too.

Who was the guy that played Clouseau's boss?

Herbert Lomme.

Oh, my God.

Was he funny? Oh, with the twitching eye. You She didn't get that out first, though. I noticed Konan got that out first. I was helping. She tried to jump in with Herbert Lomme. Yeah. Then she realized she doesn't know what we're talking about, and she never, ever will.

Because I remember seeing Being There, and at the end of Being There during the credit sequence, they show raw footage. We had seen bloopers before in smoking the bandit, but this was literally just a working, like watching the dailies of him.

He's in the operating room and he's ripping. You know who that really pissed off? Herbert Lomme? No. Good, but good guess. Her own. Okay, you're both idiots. I just want you to know we've been wondering, are you really idiots? But now the proof is in. You can tell your doctors. It's been confirmed. No, they put that in and Peter Seller has flipped out. He said, this ruins the whole movie. It doesn't, but he's right that he's created this character, and now you're going to show a blooper reel at the end.

It shows that they were just so nervous because the movie ends with him walking on water. It's this very surreal. Real ending. Then you cut to him going, You tell Raphael. It's this really funny, dirty rip.

It's basically him breaking up. He can't get through the speech without laughing, but he just was appalled that Blake Edwards put that in. I'm not Blake Edwards, I'm sorry. I forget who it is. Hal Aschby. There you go.

But you could... Because you would think, Oh, you're going to forget what the movie was about. But I had a similar thing at the end of This is '40. I had over the credits, Melissa McCarthy and Leslie and Paul Rudd in the principal's office. Because I just remembered Melissa, ripping, saying the meanest things ever to the Principal, was one of the funny thing I'd ever witnessed in any space. I put it at the end of the movie. I showed the movie to James Brooks, and he's like, What do you think about having those bloopers in there? What do you think in there? As he should, right? He's like, Do you think that kills the spell of the movie? I said, Well, I feel like I've put people through a big emotional journey for two hours, and this is my thank you for hanging in with me. He goes, All right, man. Okay.

You don't want to take my advice. I'm one of the most iconic comedy writer producers of all time and directors, but I just offered you some advice. Now, you talk about Comedy Nerd is the title of your book. This is interesting because I didn't even know I was a Comedy Nerd when I was a Comedy Nerd. But now in retrospect, I see I was a Comedy Nerd. You were aware when you were a comedy nerd, that you were in fact a comedy nerd.

Yeah, because I think people were into sports, and I wasn't. I like how you said sports. You're describing some inner gas out there in the end of the universe that no one's ever seen. People were into athletics. I'd be nerdier. The idea that I had found something that was just mine because no one else cared at all. I mean, even with Saturday Night Live suddenly coming on the air, it wasn't like there was anyone who liked it 5% as much as me. But I also thought, Oh, it's cool that I have a hobby that no one else has. I also really liked the fact that no one liked it. I also thought there weren't many people in the country who cared about comedy. Even as a little kid, I thought, I could get a job. There only seems to be about 100 people doing this on Earth. Maybe I could slip in if I really care about it.

You were living where? You were living- On Long Island. Had you ever seen famous people when you were a kid? Because I had no exposure to any famous people, and that fueled my belief that this is something that couldn't be attained if you lived in Brooklyn, Massachusetts. No, you can't do that. That's a different universe.

I had the opposite. My grandma was buddies with Todi Fields, and she was like- Legendary comedian. A Joan Rivers self-deprecating comedian. There's a really funny clip of her on YouTube on the Mike Douglas show. The other guest is Jean Simmons from Kiss.

Oh, Jesus.

Perfect. She goes, Wouldn't it be funny if we found out that you were just a nice Jewish boy under that makeup? He makes some comment like, Hey. Then she just goes, Yeah, I can tell from the hook.

What? Jesus.

What?

Jesus. Are you guessing she's Jewish as well?

Yeah, she is. She is allowed to. She was allowed to do that. I went to see her as a kid, and she had her leg amputated because she had diabetes. She did this come back to her where she came out on a golf cart, and they put her on the chair. Then she would do jokes about having had her leg amputated. She had all these funny jokes about going to get the spare tire out of the car at the gas station, the guy seeing her other leg. It was all like, like, like, like, ripping about it. I remember getting standing ovations as a 10-year-old and thinking, Oh, wow, she's made herself cool. She's the coolest person in the world, this chubby lady with one leg and people are adoring her. I think somewhere in my head, I'm like, That seems like a good... That was my 10 from your show of shows.

Yeah. Then, of course, you get into Prior, Steve Martin. That's just...

Well, that era, I mean, George Carlin albums were coming out. Those Richard Carlin albums were coming out. I mean, it's insane when you look back between '75 and '85, what happened. If you were obsessed with it, you were just getting fed Monty Python and then Second City, and I just couldn't get enough of all of it. Then I thought, Well, I wonder, how could I do something? What would I do? I didn't really have a take on what I would I just thought, Oh, I'll be a comedian. That was never going that great. It was going like, okay, I would do some of those evening of the Improved shows. But then I met Stiller, and then we came up with the Ben Stiller show, and that's the thing that switched the gear of the whole thing.

It was also an interesting time because we came up in the same wave. There was much less comedy. It was a big deal when we were kids. I mean, now we are those guys from the Depression who we're talking about when we were kids, we'd gather around the Curve Top radio. But in the '70s, I would know that Marty Feldman has a weird comedy special that's going to come out this summer, and there's only going to be three episodes of it. My brothers and I would wait for it. It was an occasion.

You track it. Andy Kaufman is going to be on taxi. You knew months in advance. Now There's so much stuff. People go, Why don't people go to comedies? Because all they're doing is looking at good comedy on TikTok all day, and you could go, Is it good or not? Yeah, it is. Someone pooping in a hot tub is better than everything I've ever done. You know what It's the funiest falling down joke. It's the funniest sector.

That's what I keep thinking is that you've essentially given however many billion people there are on Earth, and you know the answer. Herbert Lomme. It's eight. Herbert Lomme, yeah. There are Herbert Lomme, many people. Eight billion. Okay, 8 billion people on Earth. Let's just say, I don't know, let's just be kind and say 4 billion of them have a phone that can record, or 5 billion have a phone that can record video. If you've got that many people out there, if one of them is going to beat any professional comic mind because they were actually shooting their grandmother when a lightning bolt hit her and her wig went flying off and landed in the soup, and then they put a funny song to it. That's never going to happen to that person again. But they have put that out into the universe and you look at it and you go, oh, my God, it's the footage you've shown me of the mascot. Yeah, the guy falling. I think I could get Jud, I could get all the The funniest people I know, we could work really hard. None of us are going to come close to mascot slipping on the ice while they're trying to interview him.

It's just so funny. The person who shot that will never do that again, but it doesn't matter because there's a couple of billion other people out there who are going to take a shot.

We're competing against that. That's why I think one of the things people like best from my movies is Karell getting waxed because it is the equivalent of a YouTube video of just watching someone being abused. As soon as it starts, you're like, Oh, jeez, this is real. I could just see The audience, we didn't tell them it was real, but they literally could just feel it. You just know. That's why Jackass is the funniest thing ever. You just have to stop thinking you can compete with it and then just muddle along.

I'm determined to do a better stunt than anyone on Jackass, and I'm going to do it, too. Yeah, you should. Colonel O'Brien died today. If you just want me to punch you in the nuts, I'm happy to do it. You mean again? We could take turns. Okay. Yeah. Do you have the ability to be sentimental and really attached to just all the experiences that you've had in your career? Or have you worked on yourself? Because a lot of people can't. A lot of people were just, they stay in the moment and, I got to make this work. I know that you work on yourself a lot. You read a lot of self-help books. Is this something you're working on, trying to be able to access, I'm so lucky, I can't believe I get to do this, all that stuff?

I think my parents never talked about anything with therapy or religion when I was a kid. Nothing. They didn't bring it Although my dad did, when my parents were getting divorced, leave out a book that was called Growing Up Divorce, hoping I'd read it. So he just left it on a coffee table.

His way of helping you is just homework.

We never talked about all the pain. Then one day, three years ago, I mentioned to him, You never talk to me. The only thing that even ever helped me is I found this book in the house, and it was a little helpful. He goes, Yeah, I left that book out I'm like, You left it out? Yeah, I hoped you read it. I'm like, Well, you didn't ask me if I read it. You didn't know that I read it? Yeah, but it got moved. It was in a different spot.

This is what passed for a real heart to heart in our era. I think when my mom was pregnant with my youngest brother, someone left a book out that was called Mommy and Daddy are Having a Baby. I remember I remembered when you get to the crucial part of how the baby was created, it's just a drawing of the mommy and the daddy lying in bed with their covers up to their chin, looking straight up at the ceiling smiling. It just says mommy and daddy had a nap. They get to the crucial point. That is how your family does it. I know, exactly. Well, that's how we do it.

I have a very dramatic story about that book because that book was called Where Did I Come From? It was funny cartoons of a sperm in a top hat. Then they would say, an orgasm is like a sneeze, but different.

It comes out, not your nose, but your dick. Jesus, book.

They had the mom naked with her boobs out. It was like, some people call them jugs, some people call them titties.

We're not talking about the same book. My book had none of this. I would remember a sperm with a top hat.

This was the book in our world. My friend had the book, and I was literally seven or eight. I'm like, I need more time with that book. I steal the book and I take it home. Then My mom sees my knapsack, she's like, What's his book? I'm like, Oh, I took it out from the library. She's like, Well, there's no library card thing there. I'm like, I don't know. Maybe they didn't put it on that one. I don't know. Then she's like, You're lying to me. I'm like, I'm not lying, Ian. That's where I got the book from the library. Then she's like, Well, when your dad gets home, we're going to have to deal with this. Oh, boy. My dad comes home and he's just like, Don't be a liar. Don't be a thief of the liar. My family didn't have the instinct to go, I think he wants to know the facts of life.

He wants to know They are pursuing the wrong avenue. Where did the book? Where did the book originate? No, he's clearly crying out to learn about sex. Yes, yes, yes. But Bookstore or library, stolen or borrowed. I never left it out for you in silence.

My dad comes home and then I'm getting a spanking. I'm going to give you a spanking. I'm like, I didn't steal the book. They're like, Just say you stole the book and we won't spank you. In my head, I thought, I will never admit it, ever. I literally had an idea, never admit it, no matter what happens right now. I just took this spanking. You'd be a good spy. Then my parents start crying because they can't believe I'm so crazy that I won't admit I stole the book. I'm like, John McCain in the Hanoi Hilton. To compare your experience with John McCain at the Hanoi Hilton is treason, sir.

Finally, my dad's just like, If you just admit it, we'll never spank you again.

I went, Yeah, I stole the book. Then they never spanked me again.

What a good deal you got, though, man. You really won that negotiation.

But that's how you the guy that makes the 40-year-old virgin. That trauma just lives in you.

Jason Siegel's character in Knocked Up, I remember having that moment of seeing that in the theater and so much I loved about that movie and still do. But his character, the way he talks to Katherine Heigl and says, Oh, talking about her body. He's actually being quite warm, but it's also he's not... I don't think he's crossing a line, but he's on a line and he's crossing it. It's douchey. But the other thing, too, is he's just so... And because he's so lovable and sweet, he's the perfect guy to do it. But I thought, Oh, this is new ground. I haven't seen anyone do this guy before. I think he said, I see the milk came in. Wasn't that one of his lines? If someone said that to me, I'd be horrified, but I'd also be like, I'm It's nice that you know that. Oh, no. He knows so much about what a woman goes through, and he's saying it with such empathy that you have to remind yourself he's a guy. He couldn't.

But I mean, it's- Well, it was funny because when we were shooting, knocked We had gotten canceled with Freaks and Geeks and Undeclared. I felt really bad because I thought, All these people are so great, and we keep getting crushed by people. When they said, Okay to Knocked Up, I'm like, Oh, I could make all of Seth's friends, everyone I think should be a star. Right. And In one movie, if I can make them all funny, then they all can work and do cool things. Everyone was very aggressive, so it was almost competitive on set. I would even sometimes have two people do the same scene and go, Hey, let's just see who does it funnier. It was not even nice. Looking back, it was gladiator days. But everyone was a lot of high energy. Then Siegel was doing this mellowed douchey guy. I remember thinking, I don't know if this is working, but I'm going to just go with it. Then I got into editing and I realized, oh, he had countered the vibe of everyone else and everything he did.

He's playing a different part of the guitar neck. He's in a different register completely from everyone else, which It was fantastic.

Yeah, no, so funny. Jason was always the funnyest to deal with on Freaks and Geeks when he was miserable and in love with Linda Cardalini, and you knew if you asked him to sing Lady to her and make her cringe, he just was so hysterical doing it. Yeah.

He really is that sweet. When you hang out with him or talk to him, he's got that sweetness. He can access that.

It was funny the other night seeing Siegel and Seth at the Emmies. Sitting in the front row next to Harrison Ford. I was so excited.

Something's been a fold in the universe. I think one of the big lessons that comes away from me when I talk to you or flip through your book is my favorite part of this whole business has been collaboration. To me, that's the great scam of this business. It's madness that you get to be around these people, and it feels like I should have paid for the privilege.

Yeah, because you love it so much. I've been editing a documentary about Norm McDonald, which will be on next year. I've watched all of his clips with you. They're so good. You can't believe how many times something magical happened on the show. You don't realize until you really line up all the things Norm McDonald did. Did, how many times he did some breakthrough riotously funny thing. But the thing that I was delighted about while making the documentary is when you go through his whole life and you go through all the clips, there was a simplicity to Norm, which is he loved comedy more than anything, like comedy in his family, and that was the main thing. He just loved to make you laugh. More than almost anyone where you go, Oh, that was just the whole thing to him. In fact, I think he said, well, maybe it was John Stuart was talking about this, and I'm conflating it, that Norm loved his joke so much that he didn't care how you reacted.

Oh, that's the other thing. I remember this so clearly, Norm being on the show and being fantastic, but he had more nerve than anyone I've met in comedy. He's done, and he leaves the stage, the band's playing, and Andy leaned over and said, Norm doesn't care in a way that frightens me. I was like, That's exactly It's just terrifying because he will... You can see him on Update, all those times he would lean in and hold the camera.

If the joke doesn't work, he slows down.

He slows down. He's not gently speeding up to get onto the next one. I don't know. He was a magical person who somehow knew, I won't be here long. I apologize to no one. This is how it should be done.

Yeah, because when I was a kid, the dream was, could you ever be around Bill Murray or Gilder Radner? Or just to even watch it happen. Sometimes I think the only reason why I ever did anything was just to be able to watch. All the work I ever did was just to sit in a chair on the Anchorman set and watch them sing Afternoon Delight. Like, Oh, I found a way to have credibility to be a fan.

Yeah, it's a lovely thing. I just always think this is a dodge. We snuck our way into this thing, and soon they will find out and escort me out. But I'll take it. The book is called Comedy Nerd, and it's a delight. It's just so nice to have all of this here. Even just flipping through it, you get hit with so many images of hilarious moment, hilarious moment, hilarious moment.

There's photos of you in there.

I know, and I didn't clair them.

The money goes to fire charities in California.

Now that I'm suing you, the money goes to me.

And 826.

Yeah, wait a moment. Breaking news, Conor O'Brien taking fire funding Much-needed fire funding over a small dispute with Judd Apatow. You're constantly making these documentaries, which this is a new thing for you. The first one I think you did was Gary Shandling. Is that right?

Well, the first one was a 30 for 30 about Dwight Gooden and Darryl Straub.

Yes, that's right. But I think the first comedy one was what you did for, and I think I told you at the time, this is a mitzvah for Gary because Gary really, really deserve the full treatment, and you gave it to him. Then I'm looking forward to all these other ones, and I'll be in some of them, I suppose.

You're in a lot of them. You're talking about Elvis during the Maria Bamford documentary.

He just always just had a thing. It's Maria Bamford. Maria Bamford took Black music and White music and fused them. At a time after World War II, All right, go with God. That's what I say to you.

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We're back, part two with fake lawyer David Melmed, who works here at Team Coco. We're talking to him about music rights. I was going to get there. Oh, sorry, because this is a different episode. Among many other things, too. I mean, you devoted a huge chunk to how good-looking he is. Unlike a certain lawyer, I don't drone on and on. Unless you're talking about how attractive he is. Well, and you're being built We can talk as long as- Your meter's running? Absolutely. We can talk. We can go all day, Conor. We can go all day. Fortunately- All day, buddy. I love that. I'm going to get a bill tomorrow for $900. Exactly. Keep going. I love David Melman is his name. He does a wonderful job here at Team Coco. We had a legitimate question. We're following up this previous conversation we had. This is part two. Can we sing popular ditties on the show, even if we're singing them badly, out of tune, using incorrect lyrics? Do we still have to pay? David, your answer was maybe. And the thing that got my attention is that you say whatever happens, you have to start making phone calls and writing emails to people to ask if we can buy it, which sounds draconian to me.

It can be, but it's also you have to look at what you're trying to clear. So you mentioned Led Zeppelin, Beatles, Michael Jackson. I mean, these are iconic bands, music. If you were, let's say, in that band and you created this original work, right? Yeah. You would not say you necessarily want to be compensated for it, but certainly credit. And that's something that you have brought into the media space that you are protecting. I think you had mentioned, Konan, before. Wouldn't you want your material out there being promoted? Wouldn't you want to be on the Konan O'Brien Needs A Friend podcast of music? It depends on who you're trying to copy, if you will. Okay, I'll be Paul McCartney. Sure. You've called Paul McCartney because I sang a quick snippet of Let It Be. You call me, Hello. Sure. Paul McCartney came on your podcast. No, I'm doing it. I'm doing it right now, David. He's trying to improvise. David, this is a role. He's trying to improvise. This is a roleplay. Are you a lawyer and not a comedian? I wouldn't be talking to Paul McCartney, but if I had been. No, no, listen.

He's broken holes. David, your improv skills are terrible. I would not be talking to him. That would not happen in this scenario. But if I was. Okay, that's what we're doing right now. You just rang the phone. Hello? Who's here? Who's there? Hello? Is this a telephone? Who's here? Who's on the phone? I just picked up my phone and I was wondering, you went all jingly-wingly and I picked it up. Who's there? Please identify yourself. This is David Melmed with Team Coco/SeriusXM. I work with Conan O'Brien. Oh, Conan O'Brien? Yes. I was on his podcast, I think, and he's interviewed me. I've interviewed him a few times. He's a very good musician and singer. What was your question? My question is, we would like to use a few seconds of your Let It Be. Oh, that's not fucking happening. No fucking way. That's a song I wrote, and that's a big song, 1969. It was on Let It Be. I just had a little tune in my head and then I came in. He said, Hey, John, what do you think of Let It Be? He was like, I don't know. I was like, Oh, that's that swingo.

And make up was like, I'll just play the drums. Then George was like, I'm grumpy. Then I said, No, he made it in this. So no, I wouldn't. What do you want to do to Let It Be? What do you want to do? Hi, this is Michael Jackson. I think I actually own all the rights that I'm willing to sell. That's a great point. I forgot to mention that I'm here having tea with Michael Jackson's Ghost. Oh, by the way, boo. That sounds so scary now, is it? He wouldn't say, Boo. He would say pooh. It's so funny. I never knew Sona was the super funny one, but she is. She's like the funiest one on this podcast, and she was just Konan's assistant. I'm a deep fan. I go really deep on this What? Paul, you know who I am? Oh, yeah, you're hilarious. I remember you were on the tour and you've done a lot of funny videos with Konan. I follow you religiously. Hey, shout out to the Romanian community. Oh, my God. I'm sorry about... I read your book. Michael, could you just lay back a little bit. Sure. Okay. I'll be over here.

Oh, he just walked out of the room backwards. Something he does. You know what the Beagles? We just sang the songs. We didn't do all the leaping and the jumping around, but he did it really well. Listen, David Melman, do you mind if we switch to Zoom for a second? Because my line isn't so good. Can we switch over to Zoom? Absolutely. Can we just turn? Oh, fuck you, Hans. Thank you. Thank you, Paul. Much appreciated. Does that change your opinion? You got like a golden glow, and I don't fancy the fellows too much. But I got to say, you're a very good-looking-Thank you. You might not be a lawyer. I've heard you answer the question. You're a very good-looking fellow. Thank you. Does that change your? Oh, not at all. No. The law is the law. Do you I'm going to do in that one button? Just on doing it just going to do it this little bit. No, David. Whatever it takes to get these cleared. Okay. You know what I would say? Whatever it takes. Now, David, now the lawyer is the funny one. The assistant is the funny one. The lawyer is the funny one.

Where's Coney in all this? He's been quiet for a while. Yes. Haven't heard him. I guess he makes all the money. He's out counting the money. Oh, I got to make some pounds. I make some pence. David, I got to go, but no, you can't have Let It Be. It's no way. It's a special song to me. Paul. Unless it's something Konan wants, then I'll do it instantly. There we go. Okay. Much appreciated. We are going to send you a sample, Paul, of Konan singing, Let It Be In His Form, and I think we're going to change your tune. You know what? No pun, Paul. Cut to the chase, David. I give you oral permission right now, and I'd like to give you oral another way. If it's okay, I'd also like to, from this point on, give Konan a songwriting credit. It's Lennon McCartney and O'Brien on Let It Be. Fantastic. I think what he's doing is a bang-up job. He's surrounding himself by people who are very funny. I'm writing this down. Paul, thank you. Well, anyway, I got to sign off now and turn it back over to Konan. What a career.

What a career. Oh, fantastic. I love her. I've had a career. He's great. He's amazing. I'm going to go now. Okay, thank you. Okay. That's a good song. I think I'll write that down. That could be pretty good. Let's put that out. Okay, I'm back. Okay. I would say that would get me nowhere. I'll tell you why. Because it's oral. No. Because it's Paul. Okay. Oh, I see. You need it from the actual people who- Now, we need the publisher, so we need the writer. I assume Paul and who else wrote Let It Be? Help me out here. Well, it's- Well, it's- Lennon. Mccartney. Mccartney wrote it, but it's back on the Lennon-McCartney days. Sure. Okay. We would go to Lennon's estate, right? We'd have to go to Paul. Okay, Paul's great. Let's do it. Then we would have to go to John Lennon's estate. Then we would have to go to the record label and say, Hey, we would like to do this. What a nightmare. What a nightmare. It's a nightmare. I'll tell you what's- I hate your life. I mean, I wish you had a better life because this is an awful job.

Well, you know what? It's actually problem-solving because I'll tell you why I like doing it. Because if you come to me and say, We want to do this, I think my joy is to try to make that happen. It really is. That's good for you. Because once we get down to step 12, and I have not been able to convince you to do something else, and you say, Look, Konan wants to do this, then you just try to make it work. This is amazing. Can I just chime in with a genuine statement that David is, to his credit, and this is everyone loves him for a lot of reasons, but one of the reasons is that he is a genuine problem solver.

Anytime you come to him with an issue, his answer is yes, we'll figure it out.

Can I say something that is not common here at Team Coco? There's a lot of people around here who just want to bitch and moan and make problems. You are the rare person who actually gets in there and tries to solve a problem. You're like a fixer. You can get rid of a fixer. That's a real morale booster for the team. I want to call this company Deadweight. 90 100% is just pure rot. Everyone's just bitching and moaning all the time, and Jeff's back is out again. Whatever. I don't want to hear it. Everyone, shut up. Can you just, if he does do something and someone calls and says, Hey, he used our music, can you just be like, No, he didn't. Yes. What about lying?

Yeah, just lying or hanging up on them or just avoiding it completely.

What are you talking about? This is a pizza place. That thing. You're saying that a podcast that goes out to a million? We get a what? A million. Please, our numbers are I'm way higher than that now. Okay, four million, whatever. I thought you were on our side. I don't really follow the numbers or even listen, but I know it's a lot. I know it's a lot. You're one of the biggest podcasts in the world. Okay, biggest podcast in the world, and you're saying that wasn't Conan, right? Yeah. I don't know if that would fly. Okay. I would do. I want to say that I have just made some jokes today about, Oh, you're not a real lawyer. You are a lawyer. You're a terrific lawyer. We're lucky to have you. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm going to double down on maybe the best-looking guy on staff. Sorry, Sorry, Blae, but Jesus, Mary and Joseph. Well, thank you. I try to get on as many Zooms and meet in- It does help the conversation. Can I say that? It does help the conversation. It does. It would help a lot. It does. It would help a lot.

Paul- I don't know what's going on in your personal life. What's happening there? Coden, stop. What? You can't ask these questions.

I can't ask that. And he's the lawyer.

And guess what? If you don't answer me, I'll fire you. What are you going to do about that? I'll tell you what I'll do with that. I actually work for Serious XM now. Not Team Coco. I don't know if you can fire me, because I'm in trouble. One phone call to Mr. Scott Greenstein. There you go. That also means it's okay for you guys to have a relationship. That's true. Hey, if you work for Serious XM, we can have a relationship. We can. My personal life. Out of control? Out of control. David, I applaud you. I applaud your good works, your golden hue, and everything that you do for this podcast. Golden Hue. He does. He's a renaissance painting. I don't know how they let him out of the Louver without sending off an alarm. David Melmed, our thanks to you. Thanks for clearing this up. Clearing it up? We can't sing a song. I'm no closer to understanding anything. We can't do anything. But I think that's I think that's where we should leave it because we have plausible deniability. If he educates us too much. That's right. I consulted my lawyer and I'm still confused.

What are you going to do? Sue me? Uh-oh. Absolutely. David, thank you. Yes. Thanks for having me. When they go, You, sir, you stole our money and it's here on this podcast, and you go, I wasn't listening to that. I was too busy sexually harassing my lawyer. That's your defense. Sir, I was busy making my lawyer very uncomfortable, so you don't have a leg to stand on. And what a leg. Yeah. I didn't get started on his cab. All right, peace out, Tupac. But not going to say any of the song. Conan O'Brien Needs a friend, with Conan O'Brien, Sonum of Cessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and nick Liao. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brenda Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent Booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kohn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode.

Got a question for Konan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 669-587. Com. 2847, and leave a message. It, too, could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of Serious XM when you sign up at seriousxm. Com/konan. If you haven't already, please subscribe to Konan O'Brien Needs a Friend' wherever fine podcasts are down, my dear.

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