Transcript of Tony Romo Goes on Leave, Checking in With the Buffalo Bills & Building the No Playoffs For You List

Good news, football's getting close. Better news, Football America's already here. Meantime, Romo's on leave from CBS. Kyle Shanahan's crash— I think we're allowed to acknowledge that it did happen. We've got Ben Axelrod, our old pal, here to talk about what the media's involvement means. Same goes for Tony Romo out at CBS. We're going to talk about the state of the Buffalo Bills. We've got a Mr. Lister training session for you. Our reigning champ Tony V. Buddy Budowski will tell you a few teams who aren't going Going to the playoffs 2026. And guess what, everybody? We're now 30 seconds closer to the start of the regular season. Let's start the show. Nance tried to make me go to rehab. I said, Jim, I don't know, no, no. Couldn't heal the toe, the toe, the toe. All right, listen. Hi and hello. Welcome to Football America, my fellow football Americans. We are presented as ever by our pals over at DraftKings Sports, now in all 50 states, which I assume means the 50 states in the United States of Football America. I am back from the East Coast, specifically the banks of the Three Rivers, Pittsburgh, PA.

Reminder, update, whatever it is, greatest city in the world. Certainly the greatest city in football America.

Hot take.

We are— well, I don't know who's yapping in the background.

I like Pittsburgh, man, but there's a lot of great cities in this world. Like, you know, there's a lot of great cities in this— in football America alone that I would say probably top.

I don't know why you have to chime in and interrupt my flow there, buddy. Badowski, listen, we have a lot to get to here. Let's start it off as we do every week with episode number 75. But first, before we even do that, a reminder to subscribe. Next week we have tentatively penciled in one Mina Kimes joining us to help get right for football season. We're going to be checking in across football America, all the training camps, what the, uh, the hot stories are. There as it, as it focuses. You should understand that we are not going to spend a lot of time breaking down the events within preseason games. If you've listened to me at all in the last 20 years, you know that I think preseason games are Civil War reenactments. They only look real. Let's not get consumed with that nonsense. Uh, wager all you want. I'm not one who puts any money down on preseason games. Come on now. Also, drop us a line in the comments wherever you're consuming my rich baritone voice. We appreciate that to extend the conversation. And next week Major Randy, um, me— what's his name again?

Uh, Major Randy Social. Major Randy Socialmead, that's right. Um, we'll be reading your letters or your notes, your questions and otherwise. So get, get in on all that. And now episode number 75, Geno Fuentes. Get in here. Now this is a rich jersey number in pro football history, if you have any beyond the sport of the, uh, of, uh, football. Let us know who's the best to ever wear that jersey number. By the way, I should mention before you jump in, Tony Colladaute is, uh, is sitting in for a few minutes here as well because it's time. We have to get right for football season mentally as fans too. Another edition of Mr. Lister coming up in just a second. Now, I'm sorry, Gino, I had a lot to get to.

Go ahead.

All right, let's, uh, let's start with Deacon Jones here. We got Howie Long.

This is a good loaded number.

Loaded.

We got, uh, Jonathan Ogden.

Uh, you've got two good ones there. You still haven't said the best one.

Manny Fernandez.

I mean, oh, of course, I mean, Dolphin, perfect seasoner.

Doug Bednar. Oh my God.

So with that, Doug Bednar, I can't think of anybody else.

LaMoss Brown.

Can't think of anybody else, you know.

Uh, no, that's it for football.

Yeah, I think that's— I, I honestly, hockey, weak number for number 75. Not really anything going on. I think Radko Gudes wore 75 at one point. Oh, the Butcher, back with the Panthers now, Dave. Yeah, anybody you can think of, Dave?

Yeah, I can. I can think of the essential Pittsburgh Steeler. We can talk about the importance of Terry Bradshaw and how great Franco was and the Immaculate Reception and how that kind of launched the dynasty, and Troy Polamalu and so on and so forth. But the guy that started it all between the lines, at least, number 75, Mean Joe Greene. Is there a better nickname Then Mean Joe.

Just mean as a defensive lineman?

I mean, that's really it.

In all of sports or just football?

I mean, go ahead, lay it on me. What's better than me?

I've got a super— I've got a super niche. I, I think you got on me last, uh, last Levittard Show because I said niche instead of niche, so I'm gonna say niche. Um, Dan Ige fights in the UFC, and as we know, the $50K bonus for the UFC if you have fight of the night or performance of the night, something like that, His nickname is Dan 50K Ige.

I like that.

Which means every time he steps into the octagon, it's, it's gonna be a highlight.

What about Tony, the ginger with the intent to injure?

I don't remember that guy's name. His actual name, I don't remember.

I know his, I know his nickname. I remember his nickname.

That's a good nickname then.

Dave, how about the Karate Hottie? Wow.

That's not too bad. I like that. What I like also is too, because my brain is on Pittsburgh, by the way, I, you know, I, I got to sit in one of the great thrills. I love getting to yap with you guys and, uh, to, to talk to Dan Lebatard and icons like that. The greatest thrill for me, somebody reared on the banks of the Three Rivers, is I get to sit in on the seminal morning show in Pittsburgh, the DV Morning Show. I got to actually sit in for an hour and a half with Randy Bauman and company. Great times. Also saw the Buccos in PNC Park, and I went up to the Bronx and saw them play the Yankees. That was cool. I went to a Riverhounds game. You ever even heard of the Riverhounds, Buddy Budowski?

Only from you, Dave, but I'm curious. You mentioned, so you've been a Yankee. I'm dying to get to PNC. How many parks have you been to, Dave?

I'd say half. I don't know off the top of my head, but yeah, somewhere, somewhere in that range.

It's a good number.

What's that?

That's a good number. I've only been to 8. I'm trying to get, I'm trying to get up eventually. I want to do all 30, obviously.

But yeah, those, I, I kind of dig like the Phoenix one and Seattle. Yeah, Milwaukee. I haven't been to the new one. County Stadium was one of the great treats. It was very much like Dodger Stadium except more drab, but smelled way better. Because if you sat out in the outfield bleachers, they look very much like the Dodger Stadium ones, except right underneath is a giant bratwurst stand.

Oh wow.

And you could smell them grilling up the whole game. You could barely stay in your seat for half an inning without going downstairs and getting another bratwurst with a beer alongside to ride shotgun for you. All right. What I was going to say about Pittsburgh, by the way, is Maybe the best nickname. Wayne Gretzky is the great one, but Mario Lemieux's nickname— I mean, name— literally Lemieux translates into the best. Gretzky, great. You're the best. Even better.

Pretty good.

Um, all right, should I pull the curtain back? I do have a no jive policy, um, here. You guys are aware of that. We recorded a full episode just a few hours ago. And then I was, I, I was, uh, informed it all was corrupted and it didn't record. And lost to history was a banner head-to-head Mr. Lister between Tony and Buddy. So we're gonna have to redo it. Before we get to any of that, and before we get to our guest Ben Axelrod, who's going to weigh in on Tony Romo getting the boot or it sounds like probably getting the boost. This is the first step. First step, he's been put on leave by CBS, which to me isn't a big surprise. I guess some people are expressing, if nothing else, it's an excuse to move on from Tony Romo, which it really felt over the last year or two that they were anxious to do to erase the mistake they made in assigning him their number one and paying him that level of bank. Before we get to Mr. Lister and to Ben Axelrod, media whiz as he is, to talk about that.

And what's going on with Kyle Shanahan and how he's being covered up in San Francisco and by ESPN and all the rest of it. Let's talk some actual football with these guys in camp here. Um, Tony, I'm going to start with you. The Buffalo Bills are obviously not just because of Josh Allen, but they flip over head coaches. They bring in DJ Moore to try and jazz up the passing game a little bit more for number 17. DraftKings Sports has the Bills' season win total at 10.5. How say you? I'm a little underwhelmed by that number because they're in the AFC East after all, so they get to play the Jets and Dolphins not once but twice. That should be an automatic— they should at worst be even with the Patriots, 4-2 out of the East. 7 more wins is all they need to transcend that 10.5. How say you?

So there's a reason why they have that city poking out of the desert. I was there, uh, this month and just surprised by how expansive it is and how much money there is because they're usually really sharp on what's going on. So I've got the, uh, I've got the Bills schedule in front of me, and yes, you can pencil in 4 wins in their division. But starting off, can we, can we name a team that has a tougher 5-game stretch than what I'm about to say? Texans to start off the year, Lions Chargers, Patriots, Rams. Oof, that is a tough 5-game stretch to kick off.

Jesus, man, that is heavy. And I, I'll be honest, I'll— no jive— I have not done what you just did there, which I do most years, and I'll do it between now and the start of the season. But that's exactly right. People look at overall strength of schedule that you're going, going against, but what you touch on is exactly right, Tony. Look at the stretches. Where— I mean, there's no oxygen to be found over, over the course of 5 weeks there. And this is the start. I know the Bills have played with Josh Allen, have played themselves out of a big early season hole. But man, where the wins there— if they're 2-3, that's successful, right? For sure.

For sure. And that's only one 5-game stretch. They have another 5-game stretch later on in the season that they have.

Brutal. I'm looking at it right now.

Kansas City, New England again, Green Bay, Chicago, Denver.

Yeah, the AFC East has to play the NFC North this year, which was brutal. 4 playoff teams in that division, 4 playoff quality teams.

The only break they have in this schedule outside of the Jets and the Dolphins is the Raiders, right?

Wow, that's it, right?

They play Baltimore and, and many also in that, in that little, little stretch. So when you say 10.5, I'm looking at— I'm thinking, all right, Josh Allen's gonna pull a rabbit out of his hat at some point. He was dynamite last year on the ground too, him as we had in a previous, uh, Mr. Lister where I beat Jeremy Tashae to shreds. Um, you talked about the guys that had multiple— excuse me, 10, 10 or more rushing touchdowns. James Cook and, uh, on the ground Josh Allen. But he always brings some sort of magic out, and I feel like there's teams that struggle early that they may be able to pounce on. I'm looking at the Lions, I'm looking at the Texans. I love the Texans defense, but I think that they can kind of get over on them in the first game. 10.5 is, I think, is really sharp. I'd probably go over on that. I think they'll beat Minnesota. I think they'll beat Baltimore. I think they might beat Kansas City in the regular season. That, that feels like they do that a lot.

They do that a lot. They tend to be 7 in the regular season.

Yeah.

Um, I'm, I'm not super sold on Green Bay. Interesting. I'm not super sold on them. I think that that's a game that's, that's winnable. I think Chicago—

is that before or after Parsons is back? Because that's going to make it—

it'll be, it'll be later on in the season, but we don't know when he's going to come back, if he's going to be ready, where their bye is. I haven't looked at Green Bay's bye. In conjunction to their season. But I think, I think 11 wins is doable. I think over on the, on the Buffalo Bills is doable. What say you, Dave?

I think that, um, the— of all the stuff you just said there, the one that grabbed my brain is the Lions. And it makes me feel like they are— are they off the top of my head, are they the Rorschach team test of, um, of 2026? A year removed from Ben Johnson, you now know if you had any doubt that Ben Johnson is the real deal. He moves over to Chicago and transforms performs Caleb Williams as a lot of us expected he would. Jared Goff still has a good season, but the injuries are easy to use as, as an excuse for the Lions last year. There will be no excuses again if they do that again like they did last year. I wonder what it'll mean for Dan Campbell and for this era of the Lions, because the defense should be good, the offense should be good once again, but if they in that stacked-up division. And I keep talking about that division, and I think the X factor of how rugged it is— if I'm right about the Vikings, if Kyler Murray and, uh, you know, and the defense is a tick better and they catch a little, uh, a little better break in terms of health, I think the Vikings are a real player in that division too.

So the Lions are intriguing anyway.

Um, Dave, real quick, I just want to go back to the Bills for a second. Sorry, I, I think the question—

no, I want to as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, I think 11 wins is totally doable for the Bills, right? They've been winning 11 games for 5, 6 years now. The question more is, can they finally get over the hump, right? They had the path in front of them. They had no Mahomes, no Burrow, no Jackson in the playoffs last year, and they still couldn't do it. Now, the Joe Brady thing is a really interesting dynamic because he's Josh Allen's, uh, you know, boy basically. But here's this quote from, uh, Alec Anderson, one of the offensive linemen for the Bills. He says of Joe Brady, it's kind of like having your uncle come over. You can do stuff that your parents wouldn't really allow you to do. And our boy Nate Theis weighed in and said, this isn't lowering my, quote, cool substitute teacher concerns. It kind of feels like there's some of those vibes in Buffalo right now where Sean McDermott is out the building. They got their guy who's their buddy buddy, kind of like when the Cubs brought in— I hate to reference baseball here, but when the Cubs brought in David Ross and it didn't really work out in that manner, it feels like maybe things are a little too laid maybe in Buffalo based off that.

That's— I'm not saying they are. I'm just saying that's a bit of a concern for me, that maybe things get a little too laid back and they need kind of a kick in the ass after not getting over the hump last year.

I disagree with you fundamentally because I think what we learned— it's funny that I also, for football Americans who were consuming Dave's voice in the early portion of 2025, I made the point, what was going on at William Mary back when McDermott and Mike Tomlin were both on the football team there? And how did they both survive as long as they did? What rules, what principles of pro football were insinuated into their brains that they both were the same— that the same flaws, they both became outmoded in their approach to winning in pro football in big spots specifically? In January. McDermott's gone. I think that's a good thing ultimately for them.

No, I agree with you on that.

They had to make a change, basically, right?

Yeah, yeah. I, I think it was the right move to make a change. Like, I was advocating for McDermott to go probably even before last season. Like, I think they kept him one year too long. But it's just, did they pick the— did they go in the right direction in terms of just bringing in the chill guy?

You want to make—

you want to make your quarterback happy. You want to make the guy that built you a new stadium happy, which is all of a sudden you bring in Joe Brady— or not bring him in, but you haven't been head coach. And it's like, all right, wait a second, we can do things offensively. Like, like, uh, this guy was saying, we could do things offensively that maybe McDermott was a little bit gun-shy to do, right? Really unleashing Josh Allen in a way that maybe— are we going to see another level, right? Which is kind of crazy to think of. Like, scary to think about how much more levels does Josh Allen have. Will Tom Brady unlock yet another level and transcend his already incredible performances? It's going to be interesting because offensively they bring a lot of the same guys back. Obviously you bring back— you bring over DJ Moore. Like I said, tongue-in-cheek, he may be the best wide receiver— is the second best wide receiver of the Josh Allen era, right? Is that—

is that the only argument would be Stefon Diggs?

People get way too caught up in— it's not— it's not your— listen, if you're a devoted Bills fan, you may question some of the—

what—

what— how much they had to pay to get DJ Moore. But if you're in a win-now mode You got—

doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

And it doesn't matter if he's not a true number one either. I think what matters is that he elevates the passing game for Josh Allen. Not that far removed from DJ Moore from some— some— our assumptions about who DJ Moore maybe were changed. And it's not as though that the, the highest gear of DJ Moore has been lost because we didn't see it in Chicago a year ago. Um, the Bills though, of course, put a— put the pox on themselves on day one. In case you aren't aware of this, especially the youngs, the Buffalo Bills, you understand, they're awarded a pro football franchise in the AFL and they say, hey fans, what should we name our new football team? And somehow they land on the Buffalo Bills. And of course, the Bills, or Buffalo Bill Cody, is who they are named after. Buffalo Bill Cody The city is named Buffalo after the majestic beast that roamed the plains until Buffalo Bill Cody killed all the buffaloes. What the hell are you doing? What the hell are you doing? Makes no goddamn sense. But anyhow, and now many moons later, it appears they've done it to themselves again with them uniforms.

Weigh in here, Buddy Budowski. You get first bite of the—

I hate these, Steve. I'm not a fan of these at all.

I like the blue hats and the gray uniform.

Yeah.

I, I, I hate the gray look. Like, gray is really hard to pull off unless you're like a college team. Like, I think colleges can sometimes pull off that kind of like all slate gray look. The Bills just don't do it. And I really— I, I understand they're trying to do something different with the helmets, and I kind of like when teams take like a part of their logo or a part of their identity and try and do something to kind of highlight it. Kind of like the Tiger Eye at the mid— at midfield of LSU. But the Bills just missed the mark here. Just go back to the red helmet.

This might be the worst logo I've ever seen on a helmet.

Yeah, and it's just, it just doesn't work, man.

And also, you guys get it, right? It's the horns ripping through the helmet, right?

And did you notice, by the way, Tony, the subtlety of the blue collar?

I did.

The Nickel City blue collar workers, like the, you know, the most— just how could you make it more obvious that we're blue collar Buffalo people? Like, this is our identity. By the way, Dave, Did you know Nickel City was a thing?

Every time I have family up in Buffalo, if I, if I had a nickel for every time they talk about how proud they are to be from the Nickel City, I would have zero.

And do they still live there, by the way, Dave, or did they move out and just tell you how much they love Buffalo but they don't live there anymore?

I've never heard it referred to. Never, never referred to Nickel City about as often as I've heard Tom Brady referred to as the Pharaoh. If you look him up on who called him the Pharaoh.

What?

That's right. Well, Peyton Manning, there's a little evidence that Peyton Manning didn't give him the nickname the Sheriff late in his career. And then all of a sudden, some percentage of people are like, all right, we'll ride with that, Peyton. We'll call you the Sheriff, even though nobody called him the Sheriff. And even weirder, Tom Brady. Who doesn't remember those classic matchups early in this millennium between the Sheriff and the Pharaoh? What a dumb uniform that is, by the way. Although I'm not as hot about, uh, under the blue collar as everybody else is about it. It's fine. It looks kind of like what the Rams were wearing with the bone uniforms a couple years ago. But when the jersey hangs out, the blue jersey hangs out from underneath the gray jersey, as I think seems to be like what they want the players to do, you look a lot like Adam West's Batman.

Adam West, former friend of the show.

Is that right?

Long time.

Long time. He was a longtime friend of the, of the Dan Le Batard Show. Yes.

Adam West also made the scene at the Man Show and he brought the Batmobile with him. I remember meeting him. Yeah, that's pretty sick.

When you're breaking out the unis, I know you have to, you have to put out the guys that, that really mean something to the town and to the team. But when you got Dawkins out there, you got to get somebody with a, with a good build. Am I, am I, am I alone on this?

Yeah, I'm with you on that.

Okay.

Yeah.

Making sure.

Yeah. Right.

Yeah, it's like, look how cool these uniforms are. We're going to put an offensive line. Now it's like, no, you got to put the corner flattering.

Yeah, the 3 does not look good.

The gray, the gray does not hide.

Yeah, Damashek, you got to do the quarterback or the really ripped corner linebacker, defensive end who's just like Aaron Donald model.

Greg Rousseau would be great. He's statuesque. And all of a sudden I see Dion Dawkins and I'm like, oh, he's a cane, right?

Of course.

Yeah. All right. I can't render a final verdict on these Bills getups. They don't look good to me, but I need to see them out on the field. Against another pro football team before I, uh, before I issue my final grade is the uniform. In the meantime, this talk about the Bills and the Jets and Dolphins being in their division leads me to this. It's at the time of this recording July 31st, but we can't wait another moment. We usually wait till August, but let's jump into it. I'm excited for football. It's time for the worst list to be on. The no playoffs for you. In the offseason, pretty much from the start of free agency, and then you get the draft, and then you look at the schedule, and somehow in the NFL— and this isn't necessarily true in any of the other sports— somehow because of parity and the way it's constructed, the flow of the schedule, it's way easier until the evidence of the regular season actually is provided. To talk yourself into just about any NFL team making the playoffs. I could see if things break exactly right for Jacoby Brissett, and I don't know, maybe Matthew Stafford has a worse back— maybe the Cardinals can sneak in the back door of the playoffs.

You can do that with just about any team. It's very hard to cobble together an accurate list of the teams that definitely will not make the playoffs. Two years ago, I ran the table. I named 8 teams that wouldn't go to the playoffs. That may not sound impressive, But now keep your own list. I'm going to start with Tony, our guest. Name a team that you know is not going to make the playoffs this year.

The Washington Commanders.

Ooh, whoa. Hot, right?

Very interesting.

That was the first. I assembled the list. I assembled the list. I have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

I have saved some for later.

I will. I will.

I have 7 teams right now. I have 7 teams right now. The first one I wrote down was Washington.

Hmm. They just not— give us the elevator pitch of why.

Elevator pitch is Jaden Daniels. I got to see you do it. You did it the first season.

We look—

listen, listen, listen. I saw you do it the first season. It's giving me— it's giving me shades of Robert Griffin III. You have an incredible rookie year, you get hurt. All of a sudden, are you going to come back and be the guy that's kind of always perpetually hurt? Are you going to put that aside à la Steph Curry where it was like, oh, he's got bad ankles, he can't really do anything, and then all of a sudden he became the greatest 3-point shooter and the greatest shooter we've ever seen? Right now I'm looking at this roster and I'm looking at Bill Crosby-Merritt as your number 1. You got Rashad White as your number 2 back. Your number 1—

slow-mo Rashad.

You're looking at your number 1 receiver, Terry McLaurin, who's not the picture of health himself.

Yep.

You got Luke McCaffrey, Antonio Williams, and Chigio Conklin, who I like by the way. But that offense is not screaming to me high ceiling, we're going to outscore teams like we were doing back when he was a rookie, when you had Deebo, when you had other guys on that team. And now I'm looking at him like, I, I don't love their defense.

Me neither.

And that division, like Sonny Styles though, Sonny Styles is fine, right? But he's a rookie, it's going to take him a little bit to get acclimated to the game at the NFL level. I don't know who, uh, McDaniel is going to be throwing the ball to. I think that division is going to be tough. I think the Giants are going to be a little bit better.

Agree.

Dallas is always going to be good in that division. I think the Eagles are probably going to win that division.

A little bit of a strong statement, always good. But I do think that offensively, offensively, they're usually always right in the mix.

Defense, always had a couple, a couple of years ago they were fine defensively. I think they were aided by a lot of interceptions and fumbles and just turnovers that kind of went their way. But I'm looking at this team and I just don't have faith whatsoever in the Commanders.

Well, this elevator must be in a, in a really tall sky.

It is. It is. We're at a Vegas sports show, baby.

That's an interesting and bold one. Geno, you go.

I'm gonna take a free square here. You look at the NFC West, you've got the champions, you've got the team people think are going to be the champions this year, and San Francisco, who won 12 games last year. And then down there at the bottom, looking all hopeless, the Arizona Cardinals.

Yeah. Okay.

They've got the third hardest schedule in the league this year. I mean, you know, records from last year, but you can tell.

You can see why. What's funny about them is, and Gino the Fantasy Fountain knows, people love them in fantasy terms. So it does get a— it can get a little murky in your brain. But yes, in that division, the Cardinals do not stand a chance. All right, buddy, you're up.

Yeah, so Dave, I didn't want to do like the Dolphins, the Jets, the Titans, one of these kind of like free squares. I, I kind of thought about something in the middle here. The, the, the Commanders were a team I thought of. I think Jayden Daniels, what he does this year is one of the biggest storylines in the NFL. I'm gonna go with the Indianapolis Colts.

It's a good one.

Went 8-9 last year. Obviously the Daniel Jones thing, they, you know, end up with Phil Rivers at one point. Riley Leonard got hurt as well.

I just—

I'm not a Daniel Jones guy at all. Like, I know he played well before he got hurt last year, but he's coming off an Achilles. He's had two major injuries in his career, if I'm not mistaken. I just— I don't know. I, I like Steichen, and I think he did a really good job with Daniel Jones last year. But I just don't see it with the Colts, and I think there are two teams better than them in their division with the Jags and the Texans, two teams that I'm pretty high on heading into this season. And then you look around at the rest of the AFC, who are they going to be better than?

That—

then they're not going to be better than the Ravens. I still am a Mahomes believer.

It depends if you— but what, what they really don't have is pass catchers. I mean, right, you know, when you're— when your number two is Josh Downs, it almost begs the question, what were you thinking letting Michael Pittman out of the building? Either way, Again, your skyscraper is very close to Tony's with that elevator. I am— I don't care, you guys can be as bold as you want. I appreciate the hot takes. I'm gonna take the low-hanging fruit because I have several teams to list off here between now and kickoff. So I'm going to start with the easy ones, and I'm going to take two right out of the gate. The two you mentioned there, Miami Dolphins, you don't want to win. Spoiler alert, you have no chance of making the playoffs if you're not even going to try to do it. So sorry for you fans there.

I would be shocked if they made the playoffs, like Very sure everybody would be.

No, would they? No playoffs for you. I do like Malik Willis though. And I'm going to take the other one that you said there too. They stink forever. The New York Jets. I'm sorry that Woody Johnson owns you, but Woody Johnson owns you. No playoffs for you. All right. Good opening edition for the 2026 No Playoffs for You. Before we get to Ben Axelrod to talk about all that's going down in pro football media and beyond, Let's do what we need to do. It's not just the players now in training camp, not just the coaches watching film endlessly in the wee hours of the AM. No, we fans must get right too, and that's why we continue to play Mr. Lister. Last week, Tony Collada, you took down and overmatched Jeremy Tasche, who embarrassed himself in our first go-round of Mr. Lister. We're going to keep playing it here. As the reigning champ, Tony is here today. His competition I don't know if this is too close to home or if this could embarrass Football America. You're not just playing for yourself, Buddy Budowski. I know, but for Football America at large, please remember that as we go into this one.

Our categories today— and by the way, as always, I will give you a list and then you will name back and forth one by one until one of you cannot summon another name on that list. Are you guys ready to go? Tony, do you want to go first? As the champ, or, or you're kind of the champ, so you could go, but Buddy, kind of, kind of, he could be second.

Yeah, I'll go first.

You'll go first. Okay.

By the way, Tony with an unofficial record of 2-0.

That's a pretty official record.

Unofficial.

Nobody saw it.

There's no proof.

I've beaten Jeremy like 10 times.

That's fair. All right, here we go. Non- winged animal mascots in the NFL. Tony, go! And I'm not talking about the person who dresses up in a costume. I'm talking about, you know, if there were a team named the Bulldogs, like, that would be it. If there was the, the, uh, uh, the Baltimore, uh, Bulldogs, they would be eligible for the list. I think I've overexplained now.

You have, you have, you're vamping on this. Are you ready? Minnesota Vikings.

Green Bay Packers.

Wait a second, wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. I just said non-winged. Did I not say winged animal mascots?

You said— oh, animal mascots.

Okay, animal mask.

Oh, I missed the animal part.

Okay, okay.

I don't know.

Yeah, animal. Okay, all right, we'll restart. Here we go. Miami Dolphins.

The Dolphins.

Yeah. Buffalo Bills.

They are a beast, the Buffalo Bills. Although that's even a little close because Buffalo Bills, Buffalo Bill Cody, but I'm gonna allow it because they— it gets It's confusing because they have that buffalo leaping on most of their helmets, but except on the blue one that's dumb, that just has a big red stripe on it, which is inexplicable. Continue, Tony.

Uh, the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Jaguars are a creature, although his tongue is teal, so I think something is wrong with him.

He ate something weird.

I'll stay with the, uh, cat theme. I'm gonna go with the Carolina Panthers.

That's correct.

The Indianapolis Colts.

Colts are a horse.

That's a good shout, dude. Uh, sticking with the Cats again, I'm gonna go the Detroit Lions.

Yeah, King, what are we gonna do when his cats are not the NFC North?

Uh, sticking in the NFC North, the Chicago Bears.

Oh, fuck, Bear people. Did I tell you guys before? Because it's a— it's news to me, or at least it was a few years ago. I, I pondered, how come we don't eat bears? And then people let me know, oh, in some parts of the world they do eat bear.

It's a delicacy, I've been told.

I'm not interested. Continue.

Yeah, I'll pass. Okay, you said— oh no, no, no, no, I'll pass on eating bear.

Wow.

Pass on eating bear. Not passing my turn. I would never do such a thing. Sure, I'll go down swinging if I have to. The Los Angeles Rams.

Very nice. There's only one left here, so I think this kind of is a wash then. Does anybody want to name who it is though?

I've, I've got, I've got the last one here.

Go ahead.

Are you ready?

Yeah.

The Houston Texans. The Houston Texans. Can you please tell me what the logo is for the—

this is a good—

this is a good shot.

Please tell me what the logo is.

It's a good shout, Dave.

It is a—

this is tough.

I hear you. If I'm allowing the Bills, then okay. Then if you— but he's arguing for his own demise.

Listen, listen, he's got his point.

More than— can you name it?

He's got a point. I've got it. The Denver Broncos.

That's correct. All right, next up. Here we go. Let's see. It's not just pro football that we keep our eyes on. We like to watch college football, too. And the preeminent college football conference— I don't care what they talk about on ESPN, they can talk poor SEC teams. It's the Big Ten is where it's at. Let's go Big Ten teams. It's expanded, if you haven't heard. More than 10 even. Buddy, you start us off.

The UCLA Bruins.

Correct.

Uh, USC.

Also correct.

The Northwestern Wildcats.

Very nice.

Michigan State.

Nice.

Spartan on. Um, the Indiana Hoosiers.

I was waiting.

Uh, Iowa.

Iowa is correct. The University of Southern California Trojans.

I said that one already, so I, I, I know immediately I gotta, I gotta be tough on you and take you to task on that one. Next category, Tony.

Damn it.

Pretty easy for the two of you, actually. You know what, I was paying attention, but I Again, policy applies here. I didn't know Tony was going to be available to jump in, so I tried to cobble together a more elementary list here, buddy, and I didn't know against who. Tony raises the game a little bit, but I'm gonna go with what I have in front of me here. The bird mascots in the NFL. Tony, you can start us.

Eagles.

Correct.

Ravens.

Correct.

Uh, Ravens, you said? Um, Falcons.

Falcons.

Seahawks.

Correct.

It's a good one.

Oh, that's not really a bird. I, I think that's a, a fictional bird, but it counts nevertheless.

I said Cardinals.

So did we run the table here?

I was gonna say, I think we just ran the table, right? Eagles, Ravens, Falcons, Cardinals.

I should point out, technically, the Seahawk is an osprey.

Seattle Ospreys doesn't have the same—

no, no, no, not as good, not as good, not as juicy.

All right, we'll do this one because Ben Axelrod is waiting, and I'm a gentleman, and I don't want to, uh, to hold him off. But I do want to resolve this too, as a completionist. Here we go, next category for all the marbles. Tony defending his title, or Buddy representing Football America in a positive manner. All-time touchdown pass leaders in the NFL, top 20 touchdown pass throwers in the history of mankind. Tony, you start us off.

It's Brady.

Correct, number 1.

Uh, Manning.

Farve.

Okay, can you be more specific?

Peyton.

Brett Favre.

Brett Favre is correct.

Dan Marino.

Dan Marino is number 8.

You scared me there, Dave.

Drew Brees.

Drew Brees is number 2.

Um, okay, uh, top 20.

Yeah, you— but you already know it's top 20. You're just— yeah, making noise to buy yourself some time.

Stafford has broken into the top 20, right?

I mean, don't ask me a question.

Matt Stafford is my answer.

That's your answer?

Yes.

Correct.

He's the 7th most in history.

Okay.

Wow.

Wow.

Uh, let's go with—

um, I like that you put a period after every word in what you just said. Let's go with— good vampin'.

Yep.

Uh, I'm gonna go with Aaron Rodgers.

Nice.

Aaron Rodgers is correct. He's way up on the list there.

Number 4, um, your boy Davo, Ben Roethlisberger.

Correct.

Number 9.

Wow, I'm sweating these out, dude. I'm telling you, I'm sweating right now.

Ben's number 9? Yeah, good for him.

I love—

I'm always struck by when people are amazed.

9, you think 9, you're 12, 20, all the categories.

Yes.

Played for so long.

That's the other thing.

That is true.

That is true.

Played a long time. Uh, I'm gonna try to throw— because there's got to be older guys that are later on in the list.

I'm gonna—

no one needs to hear your thought process.

I'm gonna go— I'm gonna go John Elway.

Nice one.

John Elway is correct at number 14.

All right, I'm gonna—

I will give you a clue that there is a— there is one name in particular that's like, what? That guy's on the list? I can't believe it.

All right, I'm gonna take, uh, a guy who should absolutely be in the Hall of Fame. And I'm gonna try and get Tony on a weird one here. Philip Rivers is in the top 20.

That's a good one.

Of all time.

Rivers is way up there. He's number 6.

Yeah, I was gonna say that's, that's an easy one. That's an easy one. Uh, I'm gonna go with—

your number 10 is the only of the top 10 that you haven't gotten yet, and it's a name that might be a little surprising.

I'm gonna go with the other Manning brother, Eli Manning.

There you go, fella.

Number 11, uh, Steve Young.

Steve Young is not on. No, Tony, that makes you our champ.

Wow.

Where's— where's Steve Young? Where is he?

Oh, I just gotta say, ball don't lie. Justice is served. We did it yesterday. You beat Buddy. That was a good one. That time you beat him again here. I like that, Tony. You are a champ. Back-to-back champs.

Thank you.

Round it out at number 20 Joe Montana.

I was—

I had Montana. Oh, you just had him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's on here.

He's on the card. He's on the card. And number 18, Johnny U. Number 17, Warren Moon. A little bit of a surprise, but if you cobble together his career numbers, man. Carson Palmer at number 16.

Wait till you hear this next one. Wait till you hear this.

13 is Sir Francis of Tarkenton. 12 is Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson 12th all-time. Number 10 is Matt Ryan. But I, I still can't get over this, and I feel like this must be an accident. At number 15, Kirk Cousins.

298 career touchdown passes. He's 2 shy of Elway at 300.

Wow.

More than Warren Moon. Okay, generational differences and all that for Johnny U. Okay, and even Joe Montana. But more Kirk Cousins, the 15th most touchdowns of all time. He's a regular. Tony Kaloudiou, congratulations on your second straight victory. Let's keep the ball rolling next week. Goodbye to Tony and hello now as we move along with, with, with great pace here to our guy from Front Office Sports, the media publisher. What do you call yourself? The media editor, Ben Axerod. How are you, pal?

I think I'm news and media editor. At Front Office Sports. But yes, I, I am at Front Office Sports. That's the important part.

And you have not been placed on leave?

I have not. I was gonna guess Kirk Cousins though. I thought that was an easy— oh yeah, he's been a starter for like 15 years in the modern era. He's been throwing to Justin Jefferson for like the last decade. Like, yeah, I thought Kirk Cousins was a kind of easy one. Steve Young was a terrible guess. Steve Young like started for like 6 seasons.

That's right. Suck it, Steve Young. Um, okay, let's talk about another good quarterback from the 21st century who became a broadcaster and is now out on leave after his DUI. In case you missed it, let's take a quick listen to some of the action on the side of a Wisconsin freeway between Romo and the cop who pulled him over.

Well, I live in Dallas, so I came to visit my grandma and grandpa, so we're here.

I'm hoping to get that, but I got the gore.

You got the what?

The gore, you said? Yeah.

That's what it is for you, gossip?

Yep.

Yes.

And you were coming from Grandma and Grandpa?

What did you say?

It's really hard to hear you, dude.

I, I can't hear you either.

Yeah, I know.

We gotta basically yell at each other, right? I'm yelling at you. Okay.

All right.

Where are you coming from?

The golf course.

And I'm going to meet Grandma and Grandpa.

Okay.

All right.

I think Ben, when he— when she says dude, he takes that as like, ah, we're a bit— we're being friendly here. And then that opens the door to him. And when he starts getting into like I'm Tony, what's your name? I think he comes off like Joey Tribbiani on Friends, like, hey, how you doing? Kind of thing. And then she, she disabuses him of that by saying, I'm gonna put you through some field tests. He's like, what field? I thought we were— I thought we were, uh, you and me, we were doing something here. Um, how say you about this event? I think there were some people who tried to make a case we didn't seem that drunk. Where are you on CBS? Did they use this event as an excuse to get out from under a guy whose star has diminished a little bit in the last year or two?

Yeah, you know, I really hesitate to try to read too much into body cam footage when it comes to DUI, OVI, OWI type of arrests, because you never know who's just nervous. You never know who's just kind of like, you know, bouncing back and forth, but with the officer and trying to build up a rapport. I mean, think about how many people Tony Romo has probably charmed in his life just as the, the starting quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys.

Exactly right.

Yeah, let alone what he's done in his media career as the number one analyst at CBS. So it's tough to read into, like, was he drunk? Was he wasted? Was he masking? Was it like— whatever happened, there was enough for them to pick him up on suspicion of OWI. And they, uh, according to the Associated Press, they did find an open container in his car. So it seems like the arrest was justified in terms of the sports media aspect of this. This is something that's been hanging over CBS now for a few years now, is this polarizing reception to Tony Romo's performance in the broadcast booth. This is CBS. This is the league's premier NFL partner in terms of television. This is the number one broadcaster. He's been there now. This was going to be his, his 10th season at CBS. He's called several Super Bowls at this point. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, he's— yeah, he retired ahead of the 2017 season, uh, you know, right before Dak Prescott took over there in Dallas. So, um, he's well established in the media, but his performance has definitely ebbed and flowed. I mean, he was beloved when he came in, the whole Romo was Stradamus type thing where he was predicting plays before they happened.

Um, but then, you know, up and down since then. And I think really last season a lot of people viewed as a down year. Factor in that they have J.J. Watt, a Hall of Fame caliber player who received rave reviews in his first season with Ian Eagle in the number 2 booth waiting in the wings. And it looks like Tony Romo kind of gave CBS a, you know, no pun intended, get out of jail free card here in terms of his contract, which he's owed $70, $72 million on for the next 4 years. We'll see how this plays out. But right now it looks like CBS is going to at least take this opportunity to pair J.J. Watt with Jim Nantz in the number 1 booth and see where it goes from there.

I do think the element of moving images makes things uglier for people. If you heard a guy got a DUI, you know, you know, it— you're trying to conjure what that looks like. This is now there, and you can see and laugh at him in the sort of in the garage with all the cops around him, and he's trying to go heel to toe and he can't do it, and he doesn't understand simple instructions and all of that. But it is sort of like the conversation that was rolling a year ago over on Fox, which was, well, Tom Brady, if he's gonna own the Raiders, he cannot still be a broadcaster. That would have been justification for Fox to use that as an excuse to move on from a guy who was not a banner analyst. I think he was better last year than he had been, and it does feel to me like they're just using this as an excuse, although I do think there's maybe a case to be made for once you see him doing that on camera, that people will— the fans listening to him will have a hard time moving on from that image while they're listening to him talk about football.

And specific to him talking about football, when he broke out, what he was doing was, as you say, IDing where the ball's going to go pre-snap. And I've been told that, you know, they always invoke the, the broadcast teams always say like, we got a chance to sit down with Coach blah blah blah a couple days ago and talk about, uh, game and everything. And he told us that they might try— they might look for an opportunity to run a play like that after the play had been run in real time. Romo apparently was a violator of this code, and the coaches would tell him stuff on Friday, I think we're going to try something like this, and he would say it before it happened in the real game. And that's taboo. And once he was stripped of that magic trick, he did become pretty ordinary as a— as an NFL analyst. So yeah, I do think it has more to do with the fact they wanted to move on and this is a convenient opportunity to do it.

So what you're saying— so the idea was he came in, you know, guns a-blazing, that he was working really hard, that he had this quarterback knowledge that was obviously innate to him as somebody who played the position for a long time. And then like the public narrative is that that performance slipped because he was spending too much time at the golf course and that CBS had to even have an intervention with him and maybe a poor choice of words there, but a work intervention with him in terms of like, hey, like, we got to get you back up to speed here. And maybe that did happen. But where you're in terms of like other stuff that he was doing in the broadcast booth, but what you're saying is like that predicting of plays, that was because he was stepping out on—

Apparently they all— well, you know, you'll remember then the pushback when he started doing it was, well, any analyst could do that. A lot of the guys who played football could do the same thing Romo's doing it. He's just showing off. And it was like, well, then why don't you do it?

It.

You should— everybody, you should start doing it a little bit. And this is what I have, um, I've been told was that— and they told him to knock it off, stop doing that. And once he wasn't allowed to do it anymore, then yeah, he did become pedestrian.

That's fascinating. It's interesting because as somebody who has covered football before and just knowing how secretive and how bland a lot of these coaches are intentionally in, in their press conferences, nobody wants to give away state secrets or anything like that. And then they do— they're obviously more open and more willing to talk about things with the broadcasters because they know that's not going to come out until the game's actually being played out. There's no advantage the other team could take from that point. Um, but, but to know that he was betraying that trust, or that that was the belief, that, that's pretty fascinating.

Well, also, you know, listen, uh, it's blurry stuff, you know. Brady putting on a headset in the Raiders, uh, coaches booth and all of that makes it murkier than it's ever been before. And I, you know, I remember specifically the one that was really striking in a big spot was in the— what was it— the 2017 AFC title game when the Patriots— he, he ID'd the ball's going to Gronk on the outside with Eric Berry matched up on him. I don't know that there's that level of detail. I don't think, uh, Belichick or, or whoever with the Patriots staff is saying like, look for this play late if we need a big— I, I doubt that's happening. So I'm sure the truth is somewhere in between. Um, but let's move on into a, into a bigger conversation then about the, the sort of the, the two sides of what you might call sports or what is sports media. And on one side is, is Pat McAfee, and on the other side is Pablo Torre. And I'm not saying that they're at odds with each other. I just think that that sort of defines the sports media spectrum.

And McAfee's New World Order is sort of spiritually a call to return to how big-time sports and the guys who played them were treated, at least into the 1960s. Do you— basically, sports are supposed to be fun. Let's just have fun with sports. Why do we have to dig into all the nitty-gritty and find out the ugly stuff that's going on behind the scenes in sports when they're merely here to serve our purposes of enjoyment?

Yeah, you know, I think a lot of it could be traced to just the internet in general and the fact that you do have more voices who are capable of having platforms and having opinions. And I do think there are some sports fans who just want to follow sports that way. Some sports fans are just in it for, for betting and for fun and to drink on Sundays and Saturdays and all of that. And then you do have some people who care about traditional journalism, who care about, you know, for lack of a better phrase, like right and wrong and what, you know, holding public figures accountable. And a lot of the stuff that Pablo has done, I think you could point to that. I think you could point to somebody like Bill Simmons who has blurred the lines between fan and media member. I think—

say that name again, I'm sorry.

The Sports Guy, Bill Simmons.

Oh, not familiar, but I'll continue with your point.

And I also think that you could point to the rise of social media and the fact that a lot of athletes fans have their own platforms and that they can go out, give their message directly to fans, craft their own narratives, craft their, craft their own public personas without needing the middleman that is the media. Literally the, the, the word media, that, that's what that means. Uh, they don't need it. They can bypass the media in a lot of instances. So I think it's a, a lot of factors at play, but, but I think you're right to, to point out, you know, there's the Pat McAfee style, there's the Pablo Torre style, and there's a lot of stuff that exists in between.

Um, in, in 2026 here, it does feel like in terms of audience size, well, Pablo Torre is a wild success by, um, that standard, but Pat McAfee is much more so, exponentially so, than, uh, just about anybody else out there. Um, and I do think I think prob— not right or wrong, but just the reality in which we live. I think probably more fans lean in that direction, which is I don't want to hear about that. I remember when the Colin Kaepernick taking a knee stuff was going down and I would talk about it on my NFL Network show. And at one point I was called in with some executives and told in no uncertain terms, stop talking about the Colin Kaepernick Kaepernick taking a knee stuff. And I said, why? But people don't care what your opinion is on whether or not— on the virtue of him doing that. You don't need to hear about that. And then I was told further that their research shows that 10%-ish are at the extremes. 10% are— they hate it, the Kaepernick stuff. 10% love it. And everybody in between just doesn't care about it and wish it weren't covered as thoroughly as all of that.

So maybe there's something to that. And I do think on some level, like, McAfee is attempting, and maybe successfully so, not completely erasing Pablo Torre and legitimate journalism, but it does hearken back to, like I say, the '60s. Up until that point, nobody knew Mickey Mantle was out throwing on drunks, uh, Twisters with Whitey Ford. And Billy Martin until Ball Four was written by Jim Bouton, the pitcher. And just before that, I guess the real start of journalism blending in a real way, talking about stuff that wasn't about like what happened on that play kind of stuff, was Howard Cosell digging in with Muhammad Ali, the most famous person on the planet, and talking to him about being Muslim and anti-war and all of that stuff. And then Ball Four sort of retroactively covers Mickey Mantle and his pals' behavior. And that sort of opens the floodgates to some real journalism in the sport. And then you say, even before social media, there was just a run of stuff that required coverage because it transcended the athlete. It was— the athlete was a big enough star and the story was big enough that— and ugly enough that it kind of required general media to cover it.

And certainly the sports media to cover it specifically. Pete Rose's gambling, Magic Johnson, one of the 2, 3 most famous basketball players at the time, having HIV, Mike Tyson getting prosecuted, and then his trial being covered daily on CNN and otherwise. Michael Jordan with the gambling stuff a little bit, and then the juice, the, you know, O.J. Simpson in 1994 was by that point a movie star. And so that all required a different level of journalism beyond is he gonna rush for 1,800 yards this year kind of conversation. I, I think— do you think that that's right? Is— do you think that Pat McAfee is calculating that sports fans would prefer to go back to where we were, you know, half a century ago?

Yeah, I mean, I, I can speak from my own experience on this a little bit. My past life, I, I covered Ohio State football, and Ohio State football is as diehard of a fan base as you are going to come across. And when I was coming up, uh, actually at Ohio State going through journalism school, it was during all the Terrell Pryor, Jim Tressel, Tattlegate stuff. And our student paper was like breaking stories on, on this scandal and stuff that ultimately led to Jim Tressel resigning as Ohio State's head coach. Uh, and you learned pretty early on based on the, the reaction from fans, like, this is not what your audience wants. Your, your audience is Ohio State fans. They do not want you reporting on things that are ultimately going to harm the Ohio State program. And, and I wound up spending 7 years on the Ohio State beat while I was covering Ohio State from basically the, the first 7 years of Urban Meyer's tenure. You know, it was traditional newspapers and television stations and some, you know, fan websites. I look now at the Ohio State beat, which I think professionally is the biggest beat in all of American sports.

It's mostly fan websites. It's, it's not traditional newspaper people. It is people, multiple subscription-based websites who are largely, you know, doubling as fans and journalists because that's what the audience wants. So I do think there has always been a desire for that from the audience. And I think back in the '90s it was, you have your paper, you have your news, your, your, your local news, you have the national news, and they're going to give you whatever sort of coverage that they deem is worthy of coverage. Now you have all these alternatives who can cover it from a sports fan's point of view. And I think that's exactly what Pat McAfee has tapped into is that there are fans who just want to celebrate sports. They're fans who just want to enjoy just want to enjoy sports, don't want to worry about the political stuff, don't want to worry about the off-field stuff. And look, if that's on the table, obviously the numbers speak for themselves, that there is a large audience who wants to consume sports in that manner.

Boy, by the way, I didn't know that a young Ben Axelrod was much like a young Dan Lebatard back at the U covering things, you know, being in league with these guys and covering what's going on and saying, what are you doing, man? I thought you were on our side. Kind of mentality. You're trying to practice journalism in the midst of all that. And all of this brings us now to the Kyle Shanahan case and his, his wreck that was— I think it's properly called a cover-up because it's funny to me that the local media and ESPN have been taken to task more than, than the authorities. It feels like the cops are kind of helping the cover-up too. We're not, we're not releasing any more information about what's going on here. That's weird. And I've always said that, you know, if you're an athlete in the 21st century, if you're playing in a major sports league, it is akin to being Daniel Day-Lewis making big-time movies and being the star of them. Daniel Day-Lewis likes to do the thing of— or I don't know if he still even makes movies, but I do remember on multiple occasions saying like, oh, I hate doing press publicity for for my movie.

Like, oh, that's part of the deal, man. You don't get to be such a thespian. You're not an artiste who gets to eschew part of the business of making the movie. If you want to keep making movies and being the star of them, part of it is promoting them so that they do well enough that you get another crack at a big-time movie. And that's sort of the case, like I say, with big-time athletes. But now I think maybe it's not. I don't know if you're—

what—

who is—

what is going to take down Kyle Shanahan with all the weird stuff around this story? Why was it delayed for 2 weeks? What is the incentive for the police to kind of assist in the cover-up? Where are you on all this?

It's interesting because I think early on this felt like a media story. Like, it felt like there's a big media angle to why wasn't this covered earlier? Why, why did ESPN's story come out 2 minutes after the 49ers announced it? And why did the ESPN story have more details than the 49ers announcement have? Why did Tim Kawakami, who's a longtime columnist out in the Bay Area, why did he tweet on Saturday morning something to the effect of like, I think big news is going to come today? And then obviously big news came out. But as this goes on, I think, you know, the ESPN stuff, that stuff happens. Like, like they get heads up, they get embargoes, they, they're made aware of stuff. And if the team brings it to you and says you can't can't report it until X amount of time, then like you're kind of stuck. You're kind— you can't really report it out because they're the ones who gave it to them, to you. And, you know, who knows what the timing of all that was.

Oh, that's the shortcoming of local, uh, of beat writers.

Sure.

That the leverage that the teams have when your job is covering that team is, well, we'll take your access to some degree. But ESPN is a little bit weirder. And, you know, the question is what is properly Adam Schefter's job at this point?

Sure. And that's, you know, I think if I were doing Adam Schefter's job review based on what I see of his role at ESPN, it would be how many scoops do you have and can we put you on Sunday Countdown on Sunday mornings and make you an authority on the NFL? Like, I don't, I don't view Adam Schefter as an investigative journalist. I view him as a scoopster, as a newsbreaker. And I think, you know, I don't know to what effect.

He's a PR guy is basically what he's doing. He's giving information that the teams or agents want him to give.

Your words, not mine. But, uh, right.

I mean, I'm not— I'm not— I don't think that's a stretch to say that. I mean, he tries to play pundit now, which is unsavory. Well, now wait, now you're weighing in on what you think's gonna happen in terms of wins and losses? Whoever— yeah, for that from you, man.

Yeah, it's weird. Yeah, it's always weird when And, you know, I view him more as like an— I think I'd say like information trader than I would necessarily publicist. But yeah, I agree. Like, what's your authority on like the nickel, the Indianapolis Colts' nickel defense package? Like, I don't know. But all that's to say, the more this has gone on, I think all of the media explanations make sense. Like, I— there's nothing other than, you know, ESPN reporting it 2 minutes after it happened, which again, and kind of have become numb to at this point. All of the media explanations, at least from the local side, add up. To me, this is an NFL Police story. This is a story about the Palo Alto Police. Why was the wrong person listed as at fault? Why aren't you releasing any additional information? Why, why is this all being hidden? And maybe the answer— I think probably the most likely explanation— I, I don't know this to be the explanation, but the likeliest explanation would seem to be that they were just trying to avoid citing Kyle Shanahan, and that the local police obviously have a relationship with the 49ers.

They were doing Kyle Shanahan a solid. Not to mention, Kyle Shanahan was banged up in all of this and, and, you know, suffered, you know, it seems like a very serious concussion. His, his cut required 40 stitches. So maybe they were just trying to do Kyle Shanahan a solid. This would certainly not be the first local law enforcement to have a friendly relationship with the local sports team. But the fact that all of it has added up and that the, the police seem to be so not forthcoming about it, I do think it adds some eyebrow-raising factors to what is going on here. Why does it seem like you are trying to hide something?

Well, let's take a listen to what Dan Lebatard said on the DLS earlier this week about the Shanahan story. And it does— it's like, basically, take a listen to this. It makes it sound like Shanahan being savvy here in the way he's playing it.

There is no obligation in sports to cover this this stuff like journalists. ESPN made that so, but there's not actually that responsibility. We can leave these people alone. We can cover them the way we did many years ago when none of this stuff was on, on limits. It was all off limits. And I think the athletes and the power brokers would prefer it that way. The power always prefers that you can't actually shame them with the truth. But now that we're in an age where the truth doesn't actually shame and you realize that the power The power of the press isn't much of a power if when we tell the truth, it doesn't cause shame. If you can just get around it because I'll just deny it, I'll say I was driving 20 miles an hour. I will say, I will say that it's my fault. Now the accident is my fault and I'll make it look like accountability when no, you were kind of forced out into the light on this one, weren't you?

And I'll tell you, Ben, I think that's right. That's living in reality, not the world you wish that it was. Pablo Torre, his big conclusion, he continues with the Kawhi Leonard and the Clippers scandal, and it's right out there in the open. I think everybody sort of understands it, and the conclusion basically is what's supposed to happen here, uh, Pablo, if I'm understanding his point, is time for Adam Silver to act like an actual judge, not a commissioner, not, not sports judge, but like an actual judge might cover this And I'm kind of with Dan, like, does Adam Silver have to do that? If the grotesquely wealthy and powerful have learned anything in these last few years, it's that there aren't actual repercussions for doing anything. Just, just keep this or that, that's not true, or I don't know, you know, there, there, there, people might know reality, they might be able to, uh, we, we might have empirical reality,, but it doesn't result in repercussion. Is that fair or no?

I think what public figures have gotten savvier at is knowing how short our attention spans are, right? And knowing that Kyle Shanahan is the story this week, there will be another story next week. I mean, that's the reason that the Mike Vrabel, Diana Rossini story lived on for a month, which really, when you consider that story, probably deserved a little longer than a month, but it lived for a month because it happened in the, the dead period of the NFL calendar, and really the, the dead period of the sports calendar. And eventually we moved on to something else, and Mike Vrabel is back, uh, coaching, coaching the Patriots. And, and that's, that's where that story, you know, right now, that seems to have, to have ended. We'll see what happens with Diana, but, um, you know, that's— we, we move on pretty quickly. And so I think that's a lot of these public figures, a lot of these public entities, the, these leagues, these teams know that we'll move on and that you just got to weather the storm and that, you know, you don't have to answer to the social media mob. Yeah, people might do a podcast about you, people might send out some, some tweets and make some jokes about you, but ultimately the, the news cycle moves on.

And if it's not a story, uh, regardless of the size or scope of the story, it ultimately very little seems to have staying power in this news economy.

It's weird in that, and then Romo does get taken down by, by the, um the video provided. But like I say, I think that's more excuse— it's very— an excuse to get out from under Romo. Um, it is, it really is kind of— it makes me think of, we all can see, we used to kind of, we understood that the refs weren't right all the time, but what are you going to do about it? And then replay review exposes it and we just kind of roll through it. It's like, ah, they were wrong, that replay was wrong. And then we bellyache about it, but there's There's not actual repercussion. There's no consequence awaiting them. We all get it, but it doesn't mean that that person is necessarily ever going to suffer any consequence for their behavior. Um, and by the way, with ESPN, what they're doing, it is very interesting. It's what I've been saying since COVID is where the, the industry is going, and it really seems to be playing out. They're about like 4 people that matter in sports media now, and everybody else is a bit player trying to get a gig.

Is that about— they basically can reduce their workforce and just put all their money— and I know I've heard Pat McAfee talk about the fact that, like, you don't understand how budgets work and all of that, but what it does allow them to do is to lighten the workforce basically and put all their stock stock in one of those 4 people. Is that fair?

Yeah. And to be honest, like, I don't even know— 4 might be too high. Like, for— like, even Pat McAfee, who I think you would probably put at the very top of that list, if ESPN was at a point where it, it couldn't re-sign Pat for whatever reason, Pat decided to move on, like, they could find some version of Pat McAfee. They could put Bustin with the boys in there. Like, there are all of types of different content in different shows and different personalities that all kind of overlap to varying degrees. Barstool is kind of involved in it. Uh, I, like, I, I, I think that everybody's kind of expendable at this point. I, I think it's just we're all fighting for the same attention, we're all fighting for the, the same spot in the algorithm, and ultimately the, the show goes on, you know, regardless of, of the talent. So I think that everybody's kind of figured that out.

I pointed that out on Twitter and getting into Twitter battles is dumb for someone old as I am. But Scott Van Pelt was among the voices who said when the Jacksonville season-ending presser happened and the woman complimented Liam Cohn and that was a scandal, you shouldn't do that in a press conference and everything else. And Scott Van Pelt, who has a pretty big platform, said, take it easy, Hardos, it's fine for her to do that. Everything doesn't have to be journalism. And I don't think he's apathetic about or myopic about everybody who does this for a living, but that's what it kind of adds up to. It's like, we don't need that. We don't need that level of journalism. It's how it hit me. And he pushed back on me pretty hard on social media as a result of it. But that's the way it hit me is like, you're making You're making a case for how disposable journalism, or even asking a question in a postgame presser, um, is. Um, now I have to ask you this on your way out. Yeah, about actual sports. I said you're in Ohio and cover this story.

The Cleveland Browns are going to start Deshaun Watson or Sha'Dur Sanders on purpose in Week 1, 2026. How say you?

I mean, they, they are going to start one of those guys unless they unless they decide to start Dylan Gabriel, I guess. Um, yeah, I mean, I think it's nuts. I, uh, I think it's gonna be Deshaun Watson. I, I think, you know, they still have a lot of veterans in that locker room. Uh, they just resigned, uh, Denzel Ward and Grant Delpit to extensions. Uh, they're talking about bringing in Jadeveon Clowney for some reason. Like, they still have veterans on that team, and I think the reality is they know that both Deshaun Watson and Sha'Dur Sanders are going to play a lot this season. Like, if I was setting odds for it, I'd set both of their starts at over-under 8.5. Like, I just think whoever wins this job is going to be the 32nd best starting quarterback in the NFL, and they're going to seesaw back and forth throughout the season. So I think when you factor in that they do have those veterans in the locker room still, it's much easier to start with the old guy in Deshaun Watson and go to Sha'Dur rather than start with Sha'Dur, who's, who still has some excitement, still has some buzz.

He's only in his second season, was a really good college player. I think that gets lost in the shuffle with Sha'Dur Sanders, uh, sometimes. But if you start Sha'Dur and then you're forced to go to Deshaun, then you're kind of just conceding that you're giving up on the season, which is maybe what they're doing regardless based on their roster construction. But, but ultimately, I started— I think it goes Deshaun to Sha'Dur, but both of them are going to play plenty.

Well, I mean, if you want to try to see if Sha'Dur actually could be the answer for the next few years, you're incented to get him in there. But I agree with you that there's less pressure on him if you let Deshaun Watson start and fail and then you put him in. There's a different level of pressure picture of Shedeur. Do it right out of the gate, or we got Deshaun Watson waiting in the wings, and then I don't know where that puts you with Shedeur going forward there. Maybe they want to move on from both those guys after 2026. It's a shame that we have to move on, but gangbusters, uh, conversation with you, Ben Axelrod, Front Office Sports. Where else can we find you on social media?

Yeah, you can find me on X @benaxelrod, and yeah, uh, check out our work at Front Office Sports.

Excellent, excellent. Uh, good conversation there, Ben Axelrod. Let's talk sooner rather than later. Enjoy the preseason. And there he goes, and it's time for us to wrap it up as well. Now, a reminder to be on the lookout next Tuesday. We've been giving some fantasy tips in— on the YouTube page specifically, Football America exclamation point is where you will find those. The Fantasy Fountain, uh, will be covering quarterbacks, I believe, on Tuesday. A bunch of talk about the running backs, receivers, tight ends, and otherwise. So check that out. Out and subscribe. Drop us a line there or wherever you consume your podcast. We appreciate that. Guess what, everybody? We're that much closer to football season than when we started this show. We'll talk to you on the other side. Until then, thanks so much, my fellow football Americans. It's been a thin slice of heaven.