Transcript of South Beach Sessions - Lamar Odom

You're listening to DraftKings Network. Hello and welcome to South Beach Sessions. I'm very excited about this. I've been wanting to do this for a very long time here. Lamar Odom, when he was in Miami, was a lot of different things. Fun at basketball, obviously, but vulnerable, willing to talk about himself in ways that are open. He's an open book, 2-time champion, 6th man extraordinaire. It's nice to see you, Lamar. What's up, man? How are you doing? You're getting a call already.

Yeah, I can. I'm really good. I'm in a good place. Healthy. Feeling good.

How are you spiritually?

Amazingly great. Faithful all the time to the Lord. Um, just being my best self every day, or trying to, trying to get some business done.

How, uh, how would you tell people what your Miami experience was? Because what I remember from your Miami experience is that everybody fell in love with that 42-40 team.

Yeah.

And that they were very upset to see you go even though you were being traded for Shaquille O'Neal.

Yeah, yeah, that's a big deal, right? Um, I think as far as basketball is concerned, it was Probably life-changing. Yeah. As far as the beginning of a basketball journey, well, it wasn't the beginning of my basketball journey, but I guess a stage, a phase. It was life-changing for me.

What was the culture shock like for you going from the Clippers organization to something as regimented?

Extreme discipline. Yeah, I mean, I owe a lot to Pat Riley for having that faith in me. You know, we caught, me and Dwyane caught the Miami Heat when they got tired of getting their ass kicked. 'Cause they worked so hard.

Yeah.

I could just remember my first month down there, I was like, I thought my name was Motherfucker. Really, like, it was serious. And, but it taught me that, you know, you can learn, especially when you're willing to, and change bad habits.

Well, when we sat down here, you were saying you missed the discipline.

Yeah, I miss it now. You know, when, you know, for me, my life journey, you know, I try to just be my best self every day. That's all I can do. You know, all I can do. I've been through so much, right? Um, you know, uh, physically probably a walking miracle. No, I am a walking miracle. I don't know if you can, you know, ever gonna meet somebody to survive, um, um, physically, but, you know, also mentally, you know, right? It'd be hard for a lot of people to, um, you know, show face, you know, after, um, you know, being, um, what I, what I, what I've been through. But, you know, hopefully my, um, you know, my, you know, my story, um, helps people, um, you know, get out of that dark place, that dark place of addiction. And, you know, you can overcome it even, you know, when you count it out. Like I was, you know, my family, you know, more than one time, you know, told, you know, say your final goodbyes to Lamar, you know. But, you know, I'm here talking to you. And, you know, when I woke up, you know, the doctors, you know, told me I probably wouldn't even, you know, walk or talk again, you know, after, um, 12 strokes and 6 heart attacks.

Um, you know, but I think the reason why I was spared, because probably my faith in God. And I don't think someone would, um, as faith as strong as mine, um, was gonna be taken, especially after a night that, you know, I didn't even do drugs that night, Dan. You know, I was, I was depressed. And if I did, if I had cocaine on me that night, I definitely would've taken it. You know, I just, you know, signed divorce paper from, you know, Chloe. And, um, you know, I guess my honest to God truth, I think The reason why God saved me, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I'm still, you know, really finding out. But as I start to find out more and more, as I, you know, live clean and, you know, meet people and, you know, meeting, you know, people who can, you know, change my life, you know, every day.

Yeah.

And so, I guess living life the best way, I think, is my reward.

12 strokes and 6 heart attacks is a crazy thing to come out of your mouth.

That's the truth.

I know, no, I know that on Untold, you told the story very well. You gave them the most open version of yourself. What do you remember from 12 strokes and 6 heart attacks? Is there any memory?

It was all black. I remember when I woke up, it was, um, um, I was, uh, I woke up, I still got this mark in my neck from tearing the tubes and shit out of my neck and my mouth. See, like, because they say when you wake up from a situation like that, you're in shock. But, um, I don't remember much.

What do you remember about before that? Like the moments before anything? It's just all black?

I remember going to the brothel, sitting down and having a drink and then waking up 3 days later. And for like, for an addict or somebody that liked to party, I was like, that must have been some good shit to knock me off, knock me out for 3 days. Um, and you know, when I woke up, uh, I'd say the scariest part was not being able to talk. You know what I mean? Like, me and you can sit here and thoughts come to our mind and words come out of our mouth when we think. Um, I would say that probably was the most scariest part.

How long before you were able to talk?

Shit, I forgot, man. It's been so long, um, and, and so much, you know, going on, um, in my life since then. Maybe like 3 or 4 months to walk and talk again. Um, I started to walk and talk so fast, I, I didn't really finish my cognitive therapy. And so far it's like, you know, that's why, you know, just like reading a book It's like gym workout for me.

How were you changed by it?

Of course, I really like— I care more about myself. You know, care more about my health and, you know, what my health means to my family and people that really love me.

Is there a way for you to articulate— because I want to talk about the entirety of your life— but if you were trying to explain your first 12 years, 14 years to people, what are the signposts and the landmarks that you would talk about as the things that shaped you from there?

Oh, that's easy. Probably my mother passing away.

You lost her at 12, right?

Yeah, when I was 12. How that shaped me and framed me athletically. And academically, I would really increase my faith in God. And I think, you know, at that time it grew me closer to my family, you know, and to God. Gave me purpose.

Those are positive things to come from that.

Yeah.

I would think that the things associated with—

My life is— that's how I always think. My glass, I was raised—

She was positive, right?

Yeah. I was raised to think, raised to always, my glass is always half full. I mean, think about that. If you, you know, if you wake up at a brothel, if you go to a brothel and you married to a woman who I was married to, and you go and you go to hang out because you got divorced, and you wake up 3 days later, and when you wake up you got doctors in your face telling that you never gonna walk or talk again, how you gonna get out of that if your glass is not at least full, you know, when you pour it. It's the power of God and manifestation. You know, belief. Being an athlete is like, if the ball gets swung at me, I gotta know that it's going in before I shoot it.

What can you tell me about how she raised you the 12 years she had with you?

Oh man. Just to be support. what you love, you know, be happy and, you know, move with grace.

Because you were in Miami, you seemed very happy. You seemed to have been liberated. You came with some baggage, right? Because there was—

Yeah, that's marijuana joints, right?

The simple stuff.

Yeah, it was different. It was looked at differently back in '19. I forgot when I got suspended, 2001 or 2000 and— 3, um, you might as well told people that I was, you know, sniffing cocaine in the locker room. But, um, perception is a motherfucker, right? And, uh, yeah, everybody knew I had it though, you know. Um, like I said before, always played the game from a point guard's point of view. Um, you know, I had a love for the game that was, you know, It's obvious, I think, you know, being on a team that people expect to lose, right? I was on a team that lost 20 games in a row by 20.

All right.

So for a kid that was used to winning most games that he played in, whether it was football or peewee football or basketball, you know, hitting the game against Temple, Just used to winning because of my mentality. It was great. Miami was like a breath of fresh air. It was like—

What was the Clippers experience like?

I just wanted to win. So playing on the team that was expected to lose, it was tough. Got a lot of technical fouls and a lot of offensive fouls I didn't think that were offensive fouls. And it's tough when you, I mean, just think about being that young and losing 20 games in a row by 20. It could be depressing.

Especially because you'd done mostly just winning before that, right?

All winning. Like I said before, whether it was Pee Wee Football, AAU, right? AAU, I played with Elton Brand, Ron Artest, and Eric Barkley.

Basketball was what to you in terms of savior, rescuing you? Oh, that's exactly what it was.

I remember when my moms died, I just went out and shot the ball all night, like till the sun came up. Yeah, I mean, when I was like 10 years old, I kind of put in my mind that I was gonna make it to the NBA one day and David Stern was gonna call my name. I kind of made that pact with myself.

So unsurprising to you when you get drafted 4th in the first round? Probably thought you should have gone higher.

I should have went number 1. Yeah. If you think about skill level and how the game played the right way. Yeah, I should have went number 1.

How did you end up at Rhode Island? What's the real story?

Oh, well, you know, got caught for cheating on my SAT. Did I get caught for cheating on the SAT now? I don't even know how that goes now, right? I never see that come at the bottom of the screen anymore. Yeah, I got caught cheating on my SAT. I don't even think kids get ruled academically ineligible anymore. I never see that on the bottom of the screen anymore. That's pretty good. And they're in a, you know, really good spot. They're getting, um, what would they— what would you call NIL?

I, I would assume—

Financial retribution.

I, I would assume that part of the reason that you ended up at Rhode Island, because it was a really unusual place, was because somebody was taking care of you. And I wouldn't have thought anything Yeah, well, I was the number 1 player in the country.

You know, me and T-Mac, 1A and 1B. He got USA Today and I got Parade Magazine Player of the Year, 1997.

What was life like back then? What do you remember of that time? Is it just—

Well, I don't have any bills. You know what I mean? So it's just, you know, cool. In life and a lot of learning.

Were you happy though? Because you've described some of your past as a cesspool of trauma.

That's life though. Just, you know, just matters on your path and the road that you've chosen to walk down. Damn. Like, you know, my son passed away in 2006. He was 6 months years old. You know what I mean? You know, it don't get any realer than that.

No, that changes you.

Yeah, shit. I'm okay. I'm a man, right? Think about his mother.

Well, I don't think it's easy for everybody.

Believe me, it ain't. It ain't. But, you know, Maturity, who knows when it's gonna come or how it's gonna come. For some of us, even when it's supposed to come.

You were a kid though, for how long though? I don't imagine that—

Well, there's a part of me that's really still— I'm still a kid. Right? That's probably one of the reasons why I'm probably gonna live till I'm 120. 'Cause every day feels like yesterday.

In what ways are you an adult though? I would think the things that you're talking about with grief would be things that would make you mature.

Yeah, well, I think what makes me an adult now is the lessons that I can pass down to my children.

Like?

Dealing with the loss, you know, like just losses. Like you're not gonna have everything forever, whether it's me or your mother.

I don't have very much experience with that. The people who listen to this show know that I lost my little brother 3 years ago, and it was the greatest trauma of my life. Like just no expectation of it. Sorry to hear that. you. You are very familiar with this particular subject matter, though. Too familiar, I would say.

But like, who knows? Is that a blessing or a curse? Or like, like, you know, you still have your mom and your dad?

I do, yes. But my, my wife just lost her father and now doesn't have either one of her parents. And so there's grief in the home right now in a way that just knocks everything sideways. Like, I'm not equipped.

I don't feel strong.

I don't, I I don't feel like I can help her very much.

Well, I'm gonna let you know, like, from a man's perspective, like, if it makes you cry, cry.

Oh, I got no problem with that.

Yeah.

Do you?

Um, about certain things.

I would think that given that— I, I would think growing up in sports, man and Black, that it would be a long time before you cried for the first time, just culturally based on—

Yeah, you're right. I mean, you're right. You're right.

I tend to find men to be pretty repressed in this area.

100%. But I could tell you from experience, you should know.

Well, what have you learned though? I'd like to— I would actually like to hear.

I mean, yeah. I mean, you know, I never even let myself really sit there and cry about my son. But I think because of the position that I take in my family, like for some stupid reason, right? And you think you have to, You know, to be tough and suppress.

You just gave me the advice of let yourself do it.

Yeah, but you know, this contradiction, that's life.

How is it that you maintained— it wasn't a mask, right, of happiness or optimism or glass half full when you're saying, when you're describing your cesspool of trauma, the path, just taught by your mother. There have to be other things here that are allowing you to be that, to summon that, the positivity. How, how were you wearing a mask or were you actually happy?

When?

I'm going to say from, let's say, 12 to—

Oh no, I was, I was happy. I've always been a happy person or happy kid. Especially when I was, you know, young. No pressures, you know, being a kid. Shit, I'd probably chop my left ball off. My left ball off right now.

Who was your support?

My grandmother. My mother's mother.

And how did she do that? What was she supplying?

Just genuine love. No. My grandmother was born in Georgia in 1923. And she didn't have one racist bone in her body. She went back to college and graduated at 50 years old. She's the only reason why I probably didn't go to the NBA outta high school.

Because what was she saying? She was just—

Well, she valued education. you know, that much. And when my mother passed away when I was in, um, 8th grade, 7th grade, 8th grade, I kind of like, for some dumbass reason, I like just put school on the back burner. I never really, even when I can do the work, never really applied myself like I should have. And, um, you know, now being, you know, 46, 20, 20, how many years after the—

26.

10 years, 15 years out the league, I value education just as much as she did.

Well, you say for some dumbass reason there was a lack of guidance and you were having—

When I was 12 years old, I probably went through the most trauma that a person could go through. And that's when I was talking about the, I guess you could say, fuck, I don't know how I'll react if my mother passed away at 35, if I was 35 and she passed away. You know, but yeah, shit is real, man.

What was your grandmother supplying though when you think of her?

Oh, you know, she was a Jesus lover. We went to church. You know, even when my mother was here, that was instilled in us. at a young age. And then, you know, um, you know, my, um, my faith was sealed even before then over things that I've seen when I was young growing up.

That's unexplainable.

I don't know, I think about that a lot of times and I think about, you know, my path in life. I don't know, it's kind of crazy.

Do you spend any time sort of being introspective or examining how all of this loss, uh, has made you who you are, how it changes you, how appreciative you are of, uh, moments? Or is it easier to just try not— try not to think about it? Because who—

No, who— how you can't think— if you can't think about— you got to think about life. It makes me very reflective. and appreciative at the same time. A lot of ifs. You know, makes me want to give back as much as possible for some reason. Especially with my addict brothers and sisters. You know, whether it's my time or, you know, my story.

What is there to be said about your relationship with your father?

My father's passed away as well. He was probably my biggest advocate. But that's why I mentioned my addict brothers and sisters, 'cause about like a lot of forgiveness that had to take place. And it's easy for me to be empathetic You know, because I had the same problem, right?

Forgiveness how?

I had to forgive him for, you know, choosing, you know, drugs over his family.

Is that a choice though? Like, I mean, that's how a kid would look at it.

Yeah. I mean, that's not how, you know, how it goes, but that's how it went, right? But I understand how he couldn't make that decision.

Do you have any— Why he failed. Excuse me?

Why he failed at making the right decision. I understand.

Do you have any snapshots that remember sort of how he was troubled by heroin addiction?

Oh yeah. I remember how chaotic it was when I went to go spend a night at his home, at my grandmother's house. Yeah, those nights were crazy. And I didn't live there. I couldn't imagine what my cousin went through who lived there.

And so basketball ends up raising you?

In some sense it did.

How so?

In a sense, gave me direction, you know, purpose, discipline as well.

Gave you worth too, right?

Mm-hmm.

I mean, you're—

100%.

And so as you're traveling up the ranks as the number one recruit in America, It's intoxicating, right?

Yeah. In a good way.

Was there pressure involved with it? When did the pressure arrive? When did the business of it and any of the contaminants arrive?

Probably recruiting, I would say. AAU, probably. AAU age.

I mean, all of these things are distorting. You lose your mother at 12 years old, you're the number one recruit in America, and now you're surrounded surrounded by a whole bunch of people who see money.

Trying to eat off you. Yeah.

I mean, they see money when they look at you.

Yeah. You gotta grow up fast, right? Decisions on the fly. Not all of them gonna be the right one. Yeah. I mean, you know, some of those things that happened, that didn't happen, I kind of learned to live with them, right? Whether it turned into a regret or, you know, or they went well. Just life.

Were you ready in any way with what came next for you? The next step on all of this, not just recruiting, but now you're one of the best college players in the land. I imagine all of it's culture shock. I don't know if the Clippers to Miami one was the most of the culture shocks. Like, if you look at all of the places where transition was turbulent for you, what, what goes to the top of the list?

Hmm. Oh, probably my time from having to leave UNLV to Rhode Island, picking the school again.

Because Rhode Island's a— Rhode Island, just in terms of a region, unusual, right?

It's the smallest state in America. But I think my Um, by me growing up in the, um, um, in a, in a place like Queens, Queens, New York, in the hood of Queens, New York, probably, you know, built me really to figure it out anywhere.

I would imagine though, when you say Rhode Island, the biggest of the culture shocks there, at least Las Vegas is somewhat diverse.

Yeah, it's just like Rhode Island is the smallest, like it's the smallest state in America.

It's not just small though, it's super white too. Yeah.

I mean, there's a lot of white people, but there's a lot of white people everywhere. If you pay attention. Yeah.

And so then you get to the pros and from the beginning, what does it feel like? You get drafted. What does draft day feel like?

A party. But yeah, it was manifestation come true. I did it. Now how am I gonna win the championship? Actually, that's what I'm thinking.

Which you would then go on to do as well. I'll talk to you about that in a second. But what are the details that you remember from draft night?

Being drafted and my grandmother telling me, don't give these motherfuckers shit. Yeah, being the last— me kissing her last At the, at the table. And her telling me that.

Who were the motherfuckers?

I don't know. That's my people at the table. I don't know. But she— that's what came out of her mouth.

I mean, but I'm imagining that she was seeing something there that you weren't seeing, right? You're surrounded by whatever.

She's an amazing woman.

And so she's, she's seeing that you're surrounded by trouble or—

I don't know if it was trouble. But you could probably see life changing at an extreme rate, extreme pace.

Were you ready for any of it?

Yeah.

You were ready for the basketball.

Yeah, in God's timing, I think I was ready for it. I mean, I was put there. I mean, who is ready for, at 19 for the unexpected, right? Who's ready for that type of responsibility?

What are some of the things you didn't know at 19 or 20 about being an economy, about being a professional, about being, you know—

Investing and so many financial, so much financial shit that I'm still learning at 46. Save, put your money up. You spend, you know, spend a dollar, you're gonna have to put $3 to put it back, make $3 and put it back in the bank. You're taxed by everybody tomorrow. Just a little shit financially.

How trusting were you? Because I would imagine—

Probably too trusting for somebody to, you know, was going through, that's been through what I've been through. But I mean, I like to, I like, I like people, so that could be, you know, I could fuck you at the end of the day as well.

Were you burned a lot when it came to trusting?

100%. I mean, you know, when I was, you know, coming out of high school, that's when, you know, if you were the best player in the country, you had the option to, you know, go to the NBA. So the landscape of sports, of basketball was changing. I call that the peak of my, you know, when I was growing up, part of my career that I got to experience firsthand.

What do you remember about the people who hurt you on Mistrust?

Yeah, you know what, so I don't really even, the only thing I use the past for honestly is to kind of push me. You know, to steer me in the right direction. You know, when we talk about, you know, the brawl through and whatever the fuck happened in the past that didn't go right, I gotta kind of use it as therapeutic. You know what I mean? And just to push me in the right, you know, when it comes to my decision, my day-to-day decision-making.

You mentioned—

Can't live in it too much 'cause I wouldn't, you know, be able to do interviews like that. It'd be too much pain. It might be, you know, um, traumatizing or traumatic to the point where it might work as a trigger, you know what I mean?

Oh, well then this becomes dangerous, right?

Yeah, yeah. So this is like, this is why I was like, I don't know, I'm not gonna say it's big, you know, for me to do this, but it's like, you know, yeah, mentally, right, it could be really draining even, you know, going down some of these Roads, even though it's my life.

I appreciate you doing it for a number of reasons.

I'm just being honest.

No, thank you for that. And I don't— look, I think somebody giving you a story, their story, is a treasure. And I think it should be treated with care. And you've written a book and you've done a documentary. And in those things, it's clear that you would like to be helpful to others because addiction is a poison that can really—

Well, I think because of what I've I've came from and gone through, that probably has to be part of my purpose.

Mm-hmm.

Not just to myself, but to my higher power. I don't care if Jesus or Allah or Yahweh or whoever it is, whatever God I believe in, I try to use my story to help others. So no matter how traumatic it may have made me feel at the time, I guess that's the sacrifice. for me to get over is to help just one person, really.

And have you found that you have with the book and the documentary? Why did you make— why did you decide to do those things? Because you chose to be very revealing.

For those reasons. For those reasons. Because I think that my story is shit. It's that impactful. for some people that look up to you or maybe put you on a high pedestal and just to know that I can be beat down just like any other man, right? When it comes to addiction, and I've seen it happen. I just, I know my influence and I understand my purpose. And sometimes it take us to, I guess, go through hell to see heaven and things in life, right? Oh, I'm not trying to be weird or anything. I'm just trying to give you my insight.

No, I appreciate it. Like, I, I know that— forgive me, because the idea of an interview can be so intimate that if, uh, you're reticent or worried about triggers, then— No, no, I'm not worried about anything.

Um, any gun to my head, anything like that.

Uh, I do appreciate though the, the fact that going back to, uh, what it is that you were doing in Miami, you came and you You brought life to a team that also reinvigorated whatever it is that the losing had taken away from you. And the idea that you would miss Pat Riley and extreme discipline— like, if I go back now and just put you in that first month, what are— are you not in the shape that they demand you be in?

I was in pretty good shape. Yeah, my trainer Robbie Davis At the time, he had me in, oh man, in tip-top shape. So if I add that on with how they whipped me into shape, we had a really strong athlete.

So what do you remember? Like, what do you remember about that transition?

The line. The line. The line. Get your ass on the line. I know, I remember, I remember training camp, like not going home. I remember them pulling out the mats and us staying in the facility. How we bonded really quick too.

That's unusual. You were forced to stay there? You guys had to stay?

Yeah, usually you go home, you know what I mean? And relax. They was like, I don't think y'all gonna wanna go home. I should stay here. I remember the team bonding. I remember us not starting well but ending well.

Who did you bond with immediately?

Wayne, all the coaches, Coach Askins, Coach Askins really in particular.

What are the examples that you could give me of the differences between the Clippers and Miami?

Just defense, just culture. It was like, you know, Pat was already a basketball god. Of course, he's running Miami at the time. You know, Elden is a basketball god, but he's not willing to, he's not able to express the impact that he had on basketball. So it was just like a losing situation. It was winning mentality and losing mentality, really.

Was there a lot of temptation in Miami?

Of course, it's Miami. But, you know, Pat made me move my family, my kids and their mother to Miami too, in order to pay me and stuff like that. He was, you know, in particular me, you know, taking care of myself.

What was that conversation about?

Getting some sleep. But I respect Pat so much, you know, 'cause his knowledge of the game, you know, how I played the game. You know, I always looked up to Magic Johnson, so that's Magic Johnson's coach, right, that he's won with. Of course, him coaching Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, always been the best player in New York City basketball history. He had a lot of things that I wanted.

What was the conversation like where he's telling you, That's—

Oh, it was intense, but he, you know, he don't bullshit. You know, you respect that, especially coming from, you know, a place like the Clippers where they were, you know, kind of lowballed me as far as my contract was concerned. And, you know, he gave me what he gave me 'cause it's like, you know, it's penalty if you get, you know, suspended twice with, you know, smoking marijuana. And the second suspension came right before my free agent contract.

So you respected that? Yeah, because that's, that's a bit of an infringement, right, to tell a grown man how he has to live?

I mean, not— but no, there's rules, you know, and you gotta abide by the rules in order to, you know, proceed not just, um, as a sportsman, but just in life. Right. That's just how shit goes.

Do you respond well to tough love?

I think I respond well to love. I mean, if you gonna give it to me tough and that's your delivery, then that's how I'm gonna learn.

Where do you feel like you did the most basketball learning?

What was your biggest influence? Of course, under Pat and Phil Jackson playing the triangle offense. But I would think growing up, streets of New York, where the objective is to play against somebody bigger, better, and stronger than you every day. Really, that's how I got better. It's funny because like, you know, going home and, you know, throwing my books down and going straight to the park, I didn't really realize that I was just honing my basketball skills. Honestly.

How young did basketball become your identity?

10.

Do you remember, what do you remember about that age?

Couldn't wait to watch, couldn't wait to play.

Are there posters up in your room? Like, what are you— who are you idolizing?

Magic Johnson.

From the beginning you had the— that's— I'm gonna be the—

I want to play the point guard. The only regret in college is that I didn't make Jim Harrick play me at point guard. to get drafted as a point guard.

Really?

Yeah.

What would you say your identity is today?

Father. Businessman. Worker. Hard worker. I don't think I get enough credit for shooting a reality show while I was in season.

That's hard to do. And that reality show.

You know what I mean? Like, come on, bro.

I don't think you're gonna remember this. You're not going to remember this, but we one time had you call into our radio show, and the night before, there was a conundrum that we were talking about where one guy had a bunch of friends who didn't approve of who he was marrying. And we asked you the question, just, can you give us some advice on how to handle this situation? It was as if you had thought about it. Because you came in and you're like, this is what you do. You have one of the boys, the boy that you trust the most, go to him and say one time and one time only, this is a disapproval that I have, and you never mention it again and you walk away. What kind of advice were you getting about that reality show and all of that? Because I would imagine all of that is just totally distorting. You're in Los Angeles, you're playing basketball, you're winning a championship, and also you're in the middle of a a reality televised swirl to do all that?

Well, everybody thought it was gonna be distracting for obvious reasons, right? But that's what made me kind of like say, all right, I'm gonna do it. 'Cause nobody think it could be done. That's what kind of gave me like the okay. And nobody's done it before and probably ever gonna do it again. It just kind of all fell in line, right? That's how you gotta understand how life works. Even though you got 2 people so similar, but their paths be like totally different.

Did the team or the league ever talk to you about any of that or you were gonna do it anyway?

No. Once I got the okay from the best owner in sports ever, Jeanie Buss, to do it and the Buss family to do it and Kobe blessed it, then why not? It just kind of was like easy. That was my wife, her profession, day-to-day, Biggest reality family ever. I'm with the biggest basketball franchise ever. Fuck it. It's crazy. But it was, it was, yeah, it was tough. It was so, I would work so much, so hard. It drove me to like, I had an amount of insomnia where I couldn't sleep. That probably was the most frustrating thing about it, but I would do it again.

Because you were just going all the time. It's 2 full-time jobs, right? And you've got to be in shape, and the basketball one has to have your attention. Like, you can't—

What happens is the thing that was good about it professionally as an athlete is that you trick yourself. 'Cause the basketball thing gotta work. Like, if the basketball thing don't work, then this whole shit gonna fall apart. But you kind of trick yourself into just like, fuck it. But it was, it's kind of given me the mindset, like, I could do it, bro. I could do it. You know what I mean? I've talked myself into I could do it. I can get it done.

You said you'd do it again. Which parts of it might you do differently?

Uh, I would appreciate the grind, you know what I mean? Sometimes when you're caught in it, you don't really Um, get to appreciate what you're doing. Like, you don't get to take a step back and like, you know what I mean? But I would just really, um, not pat myself on the back, but really like, it's like, Lamar, you really like doing this shit. Like, you know what I mean? Like—

So you'd allow yourself to be both proud of yourself and experience some joy in the doing? Of it? Like you weren't, you weren't enjoying it enough?

I mean, it was it. It had to be done. And there's no only way for it to get done is for it to get done. Get 'er done is what we call that, right? But I was getting it done. It kept me sharp.

Why did you decide to do all of it?

I just, I love staying busy in that when it comes to that, you know, like, you know, like sometimes, you know, Like when I, you know, I want to work so much now, it kind of— I see myself with opportunities and sometimes I'm letting them like bump heads because I'm just willing to just kind of take on everything. And it's just to kind of stay busy almost, you know, want to drive myself crazy with work. I know what hard work— I've seen it, it pays off.

It pays off. But also, given everything you've been through, it's an excellent place to hide.

Well, I guess, I don't know. I can't hide anywhere. I can't hide anywhere. Life's lifin' all the time. Everything's gonna be exposed.

You remember not sleeping though? Is it because— it's because there was too much that had to be done? Is it because life was just a whirlwind?

I wish I don't know what caused that. I don't know, I don't know what caused that, but it was just something that I went through at the time.

How long did that last? Because insomnia is—

Yeah, a couple of months. It's, it's frustrating, really, especially I'm 6'10, so I, I obviously, I like, I love to sleep. They say, say you grow when you sleep. So, um, but like I say, I like to stay busy and But you don't know what was happening there?

That was like— were you restless? Were you stressed?

I just— I don't know if it was stress, a good stress, a bad stress. I just know I couldn't, you know, effing sleep. But, you know, like I said, I like to stay busy. It's healthy for me.

How did the show change your life?

How did this doing the show change my life? Well, They used to call me Lammy on the show. It was my nickname on the show. And I would say because of the Kardashians, I would say Lammy is, um, I don't know if you want to say Lammy's an icon or however you want to label them, if you want to put Lammy on that same level, but Known like globally, and I was proved that. I just went to Ireland last month for a quick gig, and one night I'm watching TV and Chloe Lamar is on in Ireland reruns reruns reruns reruns reruns. And just life is just trippy like that. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I could think about, um, like so many wrongs just that I've done, like, to myself, or not treated myself the way I should have treated myself. And still, like, I've just been outrageously, like, blessed, bro. It's fucking weird.

Lammy's—

For somebody that's just like such a fucked up guy. Like, you know, and that's a joke. I'm joking. We laugh. I'm sitting here joking to myself. I'm joking. I don't think I'm a fucked up guy, but I don't know where it comes from, bro. Like, always got a second opportunity to make right. Right. I think it just comes from, you know, me treating people the right way. Or at least how I want to be treated. Just like simple, um, arithmetic ways of life that I've been treated. I've tried to pass down to my kids and like, just be respectful and watch people respect you, right? You know what I mean? And I don't know, it was just blessings on blessings on blessings every day. I'm like, every week it's like my goal is to meet as many people as I can to like change my life. You know, I'm gonna work my way to a billion dollars one day so I can hopefully be the biggest philanthropist basketball coach the world is known to know.

Be a hell of a comeback story.

It's all about the comeback.

Lammy's more famous than Lamar?

100%. 100%. 100%. Lamar is shy, quiet, you know what I mean? Lammy is a little bit more spontaneous or, um, can make spontaneous, um, conversation, right? Whether it's forced or learned.

Different personalities.

Crazy. But Lammy is global.

Who do you like better?

Them all.

Were you performing on that show?

Nope.

So it was also the real you, right?

Yeah, it was. It was me. I think that's why it came across so, you know, genuine and organic. That's why I did so well. That's why so many people was, um, responded to it.

What was the math that you were doing in your head about choosing it? Like, why did you choose to do that? Did you want to be more famous?

Nah, that's the thing that's crazy. Uh-uh. That just came from, you know, being a Laker and marrying someone that was famous. I'm never that out of body. You know what I mean? Like, I'm really like, I don't know, like, I don't even really consider myself a celebrity. Lamar, just living, you know what I mean? I can't help it, um, the path that I'm chosen to walk.

But you're craving something.

And the way people look at me. I didn't— wasn't craving anything by marrying.

No, not by marrying. I didn't say by marrying, by doing the television show, by being in it.

Like, I was just doing my wife's business with her. I wasn't craving to be more famous.

But you could choose not to, right? And, and in fact—

Yeah, I was, I was just honestly just supporting My wife and what she was doing. I didn't choose to be more famous because I am who I am no matter what I do. I don't know how— I didn't know how the people were going to respond to it. I didn't know if it was going to make me— I don't know if they were going to make me like me more or hate me. So that's what's kind of risky, right? You don't know how you're going to come off in that, um, you know, type of atmosphere your first time doing it. But, you know, I guess I'm a rider.

Uh, where would you say that you were happiest along the professional basketball path? Like, of all the stops and all of the places, uh, what— when you look back on it, when is it that you say that's, that's the high point of happiness? Is it winning championships?

100%. Yeah, the champagne being poured, being the team that's the best team at the end of the playoffs. 100%. That's like, you know, it's orgasmic when I think about it. And you're in LA, bro. Like, you're a Laker. It's like, I think that's the last team And then, you know, went 2 in a row, Kobe's last 2. So that ain't, you know, that's life-changing if you don't get it or if you're not a celebrity off the court. Always remember.

Kobe went to visit you in rehab, right?

No, when I was in a coma, they said he came to the hospital.

Derek Fisher and Rick Fox tell the stories of Kobe testing them until they're willing to fight, doing some things that can be dickish to see if they have that fight in them, like sort of, you know, taking their spots in sprinting lanes or whatever, just trying to see what's in them. What are some of the Kobe stories that you have that—

That I can remember? That I seen him test people? Well, shit, he was, fuck, he was elbowing Sasha before we jumped ball in practice.

Wow.

When you got a player like that, that's good. And you know, and you see that he want it that much and that's, you know, willing to, give that much to the game, you know, if you're a professional athlete playing at that level and you made it to that level and you see somebody giving that much to the game and that shit don't rub off on you, then you're kind of missing it.

Was there anything though that is particularly memorable in terms of him toughening up teammates or leadership or anything in that regard where you are?

I mean, that's, it's just day-to-day practice, bro. You know what I mean? He just gave so hard. And you see, obviously we did on the court and in game. Now you just follow suit easy. You know, he led by example so easy. He ain't really have to say much. You know what I mean? I don't really think they make too many players like that anymore.

Just wanted it in a way that was overtly obvious to everyone that was more than everyone else wanted it.

Fucking playing the games, fucking pinky pop out. It don't matter. You know what I mean?

Like, a little bit crazy though. No, right?

Yeah. But as an athlete, you know, to get there, we all got a little crazy in us. As a man, some of the craziest things we go through kind of make us respond.

Do you enjoy watching the game today? Because it's a little bit different than the one you were playing.

I think that's why I'm trying to subject myself in it so much. So I think part of my mission in life is to, you know, Help save God's game. I think I'm that close to God that maybe he saved me for that one. Or is it one of those reasons?

It needs saving?

Yeah. Yeah. I think so.

So all the 3s drive you crazy?

Yeah. The teaching, like, for most players to not understand that the most important shot is from from 15 feet on out, right? And yeah, layups, running to the corner.

Well, you say it's the most important shot, but all the data and analytics now say that's the most—

That's not the game. The data and analytics don't win championships. Defense does. Shooting the ball from the right place. A wrestler should just— it's just pickup basketball to me, honestly. Because I could tell you the responsibility from the center to the point guard, you know what I mean? And offensively and defensively. And you're watching, you know, all these, you know, point guards, you gotta stop the ball. You're the first man when the ball's coming up, right? You're the first guy. If they get past you easy, then, right, it's hella pain. But, and then really the fast break, they run to the corner.

I remember the first time I saw that.

That was fucking crazy. Like that, like, come on. Every, like, every, like, if you trying to teach third, like kids how to play basketball, think about getting a 10-year-old kid and the first ever, any 10-year-old kid, if you like take him to the park right now, he gonna fucking throw it up from his furthest spot. It's possible. That's Steph Curry's greatness of his game for a young man. For you, I think you should start near the rim, off the box, off the white box, start there. I think that's why I wanna, you know, one day have triangle basketball academies, right? And do kind of like what they do in Europe.

Bring back the 15-footer.

And the fundamentals. You know, like if I'm watching a basketball game and I'm watching this post-up guy, I see him got his half position and I'm watching the guard and he can't deliver the ball into the post 'cause he might be pressured a little bit. I'm like, so bad.

I remember the first time I saw what you're talking about. It was those Warriors. They're on a 3-on-1 fast break and Klay and Steph go to the corner And I'm like, what are they doing?

If your team— but like, and but you know, it's so just bad for, you know, I want one day that for the USA basketball, for their offense to be the triangle offense.

I'm laughing at the sound of that burp at the end of what it is you said.

Excuse me.

It's okay.

No, seriously. But it's like, it's hard for me to watch. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, I mean, it tamed them, their aggressive mentalities, which to some would be called selfishness. The only thing to tame there, right? But it won, it has won. I thought the NBA was a copycat league. I'll ask one, you know, Laker exec, you know why? I said, I don't know if you know, but the last great success that the Lakers have had have been in this offense. That damn, the crowd almost even knows when somebody's gonna catch it at the pinch post and go backdoor. The kids don't wanna run it. Okay.

Well, the corner 3 is the most efficient shot in basketball. And it's always there in a triangle offense.

And then you can run a pick and roll out that corner. And then, you know, whatever. It's no serious, almost hard to like, for somebody that loves the game so much as I do. And it's been okay. I've been okay as a player, but you know, like the Knicks got it done. They brought the game back home, right? To the Garden. Probably where it belongs, right? New York is the birth— I mean, we'll say the mother and father of basketball here in America. But it's like, I would say Brunson just got hot in some pickup games.

If I asked you what you're prouder of, is it winning a championship in Los Angeles or is it being the best player coming out of New York at the time that everybody was competing to be the best player coming out of Winning a championship. The only reason I asked the question is because I don't think most people understand just quite how much pride the New York basketball fans have.

No, you've seen it in full force. Yeah, you've seen it in full force. Real time.

Real time. When would you say that you felt like you knew or could admit or identified, I am a drug addict?

I can't remember the exact time, but oh man, so many different stories. Um, shit. Uh, man. Ah, I mean, it's so many different times I probably can't even think. Right? Probably my first, actually that's a good question, but I'd say my first time at rehab. My first time, yeah.

When was that?

I don't know the year exactly.

It wouldn't have been with the Clippers though, right?

No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no.

Everyone had it wrong when you're coming— like, that was just an antiquated way of looking at things when you were getting gonged for drug tests with the Clippers. And people are like—

That was drugs. That was marijuana suspension.

That's what I'm saying. Like, that's just—

No, I would say when I was a drug addict, just period. Like when I was in rehab. Yeah.

Yeah.

Like my first, like, damn boy, like, what you doing?

You hadn't tried a harder drug before Miami, correct?

No. Yeah.

Uh, and why and what happened there that made, uh—

You want to dabble?

Well, not do it before, and then all of a sudden you're like, now I'm going to, to try this even though I don't think I have any sort of problem. Uh, the reason I've never tried cocaine is because I have an addictive personality, and I know that if I like something too much, I can't, I can't do that. Like, I, I know that about myself. What are you laughing about?

Nah, I'm, I'm having a, uh, a responsive joke in my head to what you just said, but I'll save it.

You're gonna keep it to yourself? It seemed like it was really funny.

Yeah, it was funny. It was funny. But okay, let's get back to the question.

I was saying why and what happened that you decided to try that cocaine. Yeah, and I was—

I forgot what happened. I was in, um, I was in Miami. I was chilling at the Shore Club. Never tried it. Um, my best friend at the time, I kind of had the feeling that he was dibbling dabbling. And, um, he was with me and, uh, it was this couple. I was at the Shore Club and chilling at the bungalows and shit like that. And this lady just asked me, she was with her husband, said, you know, we can get any cocaine and try it, whatever. I don't know, but I think I could asked my friend and he was able to track some down for him. And this lady, so I made her tell her husband to leave or whatever. She tried some, I tried some, whatever. And yeah, kind of like fucked me up, opened up a vault I wish I never opened, really. Honestly, that feeling, because When you're an addict, like, you try— you're chasing the dragon, right? So that's— you got, you got good sense because you're here. You got good sense because you don't want to even open up that vault because you're trying to— you're chasing that. You want to chase that first feeling.

Always, you don't feel like that. And then the road of bad decisions and shit.

Did it immediately become a problem? Like, as soon as you're like this?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Took time. Yeah, it took time. Took years.

Do you know how many times you've been to rehab?

3 times. 3 times. 2 for cocaine and this one last time for marijuana when I was fucking speeding in Vegas and was almost dead. Just put the joint out and clipped it. And I went up right before I put it out, I was driving like 114 miles per hour. And, uh, wound up, um, going to jail that night. And my mother was a correctional officer on Rikers Island. I'll give you a quick story. And I remember her dropping me off at my father's project one night. And, um, my, um, I'm getting out the car and all these little kids come running downstairs. Oh, Little Joe is here. My father's name is Joseph. Little Joe was here, Little Joe was here. Meanwhile, it's 12 o'clock at night, almost 1 o'clock at night. And right before I got out the car, my family pet name was Mooka, Mooka. And right before I'm getting out the car, my mother grabbed me by my arm and she said, Mook, if you ever go to jail, that's when I'm gonna stop fucking with you. And so, I went to jail that night and that's all that played over my head over and over and over and over again.

Fuck. Yeah, that shit was like fucking playing a track on repeat in my head in that fucking jail cell for 14 hours as I lay. For marijuana? And Vegas is a legal state for smoking marijuana.

Yeah.

And that was the last time I've been to rehab. But that was my most, that was my most, I think that was the best time I've probably ever had at rehab, if you can have a good time at rehab. 'Cause it was a counselor who was my, probably my mentor in that stage of my life. His name is Vincent Frank. He's a rehabilitation gangster, like a German gangster for real, for real. And he's helped me take rehab really, really serious this time, learn from it. My first 30 days of rehab, I went to NA and AA meetings. So how could you not learn if you're having an open heart for change? And yeah, I just want to use my, you know, that, you know, my story to, um, to help people. I think that's why people identify with that Netflix special so much, you know, because there's no doubt in my mind after the pandemic, a lot of people went through some type of depression. Depression, anxiety, probably fucked around a little bit when they didn't really fuck around a little bit before. Maybe drank a little bit more. You know what I mean?

I did. Yeah. I was drinking more during the pandemic than I normally do.

I think a lot of people resonated. It was number 2, number 3 globally for a little bit. Like, I don't think it was that good. I haven't even watched all of it.

No?

No.

Why not?

I know the story. And from what I was told, they didn't really, you know, glorify the part that I didn't do drugs that night. Like, I don't know if you're a Lamar fan or if there are any Lamar fans or anybody who's gonna give a fuck. But I thought that was like the whole— gonna be the whole point. You know what I mean? You feel me?

You were hoping that the story they told was about the helping that you were trying to do? with this? Because I do.

Yeah. And I mean, I don't know. I didn't watch it. So I don't wanna point flicks at Netflix and say that the point didn't come across. It was number 2, number 3 globally. And I think that's the only reason why people cared because how they personally been affected because of addiction. 'Cause I think a lot of people have been. and don't have the opportunity to come out, to even talk about it, or maybe even get help. And I think that's helped them.

Your story is different for sports fans. Like, it's a different story.

Well, not for just sports fans, for addicts.

Well, no, but I'm saying it's different for— yes, it's different. It's different in a lot of ways. But there's also—

Because addiction makes people hide. Be shameful for obvious reasons, right? Hurt a lot of relationships, get hurt. My kids were on there and they were able to talk a little bit about how they've been affected. So it's like a family structure system that gets fucked up, you know, especially when so much— somebody that has so much responsibility in their family as much as me, you know, but can't help it because they fucking, you know, want to get low. That's what I call it. I don't call it getting high, you know. I call it getting low. They can't help themselves, you know. And this is my thing, my time to like talk and preach about addiction. Addiction, you know, addicts, they suffer from brain disease, okay? So you can imagine if you have a diseased brain and you don't know it, or if you do know it and you, you know, continue to give this diseased brain more drugs, more alcohol. Well, alcohol is a drug. You know, give it more, feed it more. You know, you could imagine the, um, the outcome for people acting up or acting out.

I mean, it's, uh, it can be hereditary.

So it's passed down. I think it was in my case, I think it was passed down. And so now me as an educator, now it's me, up to me, like, not try not to pass that down to my children, or at least educate them as much as possible to let them know that they might have that genetic disease.

It must worry you, right?

Yeah, I think there's more things that probably worry me. You know more, but it's like you know what they tell you on the airplane. Shit goes down, the air goes down, the air goes wrong. Fuck around, you gotta put your mask on first. Fuck up somebody else. It's probably one of the hardest things for us to do as parents, but overall, if I'm more older, I'm gonna take care of them more older than you know none of these jewels. Or shit that I've been through ain't gonna be able to get passed down, not the right way.

Why do you think you didn't learn anything or learn more the first 2 trips to rehab?

Maybe because where my heart was at. I know the first 2 times probably I went, I couldn't wait to get the 30 days over with just to get the fuck out of there, especially the first time. You know, I know a lot of people have been incarcerated And I think that was like the first time I could— that was like my first kite to everybody I know that been incarcerated. Like my heart reached out to L, and I'm like, I knew how it felt, and I could get up and leave. You know what I mean? But it was a real. A real moment of reflection.

You mentioned being in jail and it sounded like—

I mean, yeah, I went to jail.

But it sounded like shame. It sounded like what you were describing, thinking of your mother.

Yeah, I was definitely shamed.

Where does it rank in terms of how much shame there has been around this For you, the times that you have felt shame around whatever is public embarrassment or, or anything that feels bad because you've let people down or hurt them.

It's crazy because that, that, like, that, you know, how that— but that night in jail led to so, so much good. So that's like I always try to tell you how my glass is always like half full. Like, there was some good that came out of it, you know, at the end of the day.

Well, rehab got there, reached you.

Yeah, I've met— I got a friend for life, um, who, if I had a problem at 4 in the morning, and if I had 2 lines of cocaine in front of me at 4 in the morning, told him, yo, yo, yo, Vince, I need some help, man. Come help me. Talk me out of this. He will be there. I know he will be there. And I wouldn't have made— I wouldn't have met him if I didn't go to rehab this last stint. So it's crazy how life is just so, you know, uh, when I think I'm down, I'm never out, right? It's always time to learn. Grandma told me, stop learning and you stop living.

Do you ever feel like you can have a handle on this, or that runs against the nature of what it is to admit that you're an addict, to think that you can actually control it?

Have a handle on it? Well, you should always try to handle it every day, right? If I'm not getting high every day, I'm working on, you know, handling it the right way.

I'm going to lighten this up a little bit with an assortment of questions that will speed up this interview. Okay, let's do it. They're going to be quicker questions.

Let's do it. You want quicker answers or you want these hard, reflective things?

No, you can do it however it is that you want to do it, but there's a little bit of fill in the blank involved. A television show that is the one show, if I only allow you on an island with one show, that you're going to be with.

A television show?

Yes, one television show you would want to watch.

Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.

A movie that you will stop on every time in the hotel room.

Hurricane.

Really?

Yeah.

A candy you can't live without?

Sour Power Apple.

The greatest defender you ever ran across was blank?

Ron Artest.

The toughest player you've ever run across is blank?

Tracy McGrady.

The best leader you have ever seen is blank?

Kobe Bryant.

The smartest player you have ever seen is blank?

Magic Johnson.

An irrational fear you have?

Irrational fear. Swimming.

What is the weirdest combination of foods you will put together?

Korean soul.

Give me a word you want your friends to use to describe you.

Legend.

Do you want to know how you die?

Do I want to know how I die?

Would you want to know?

Yeah.

You would want to know that? Why would you want to know that, do you think?

I don't know.

Just curious?

I know, because I know how I'm gonna die.

You do?

Mm-hmm. I'm gonna be on the beach at Turks and Caicos. I'm gonna be 120.

Thing that you find hard to forgive about yourself, hard to forgive yourself for?

Lying.

You enjoy this more than the previous part. You enjoy the quick—

you—

yeah, you're— something just—

I get better in the 4th quarter.

Well, the game is over. Thank you for playing it with us, Lamar. I appreciate your time.

No problem, man. It was my pleasure.