Transcript of Bill Zito's Greatest Milwaukee Brewers Memories | Hour 2

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A Chris quote, a Chris Cody tweet from 2024, Bill Zito for president. An Andy Slater tweet from June 2025, name a better GM in all of sports than Florida Panthers' Bill Zito. Replies are turned off because there isn't one. That sexy man joins us right now, feeling like the best, I am sure. And maybe people do not know That the reason he's on with us is because he was a Brewers bat boy in 1982. And look at that smile on his face. Look, it makes him happier than hockey thinking about the childhood.

Today for sure.

So the Brewers are in the World Series. The only other time they made it, you were the bat boy. Thank you for joining us, by the way. How did— take us through some of the details of what you remember being the bat boy.

Oh boy. This could go on for hours, but I've done a few of these conversations over the last week. And the main thing that resonates with me is the way those guys treated each other. It was as if at the time, there were a number of people. I think everybody knew Robin Yount was a Hall of Famer and Paul Molitor and Rollie Fingers. But the way they treated each other, you couldn't tell. If you walked in the room and you didn't know who they were, You wouldn't be able to figure it out by any type of hierarchy or the way anybody treated other players or comported themselves. And that, that to me, reflecting back on it now, is the most impressive part of the whole thing. And there's all kinds of fun stories.

Go on.

I told, you know, some of it's out there already, that I was the, you know, I was the ball boy one game in right field and I had to play catch with Reggie Jackson. And this was, this was, you know, he had the Reggie Bar. This was during the heyday. And the first one I launched over his head and the fans started cheering. The second one again. So 3 times I did it. He came out the next inning. I ran out. I said, could you play with the center fielder? I can't get the ball there. And he looked at me and said, can't get it here? You threw it over my head 3 times. You're fine. We got all game to get this right. I'm here with you. We're gonna do this. And the dignity that he bestowed on me in that moment is something I'll never forget.

So what was happening? You were just, you were choking on the moment? Like what was—

Oh, choking. I was so, you know, like, do you ever play baseball and you throw it? And then I one-hopped the first one. So the second one, I did the 2 steps and the hop and launched it and it was way over his head. So yeah, I choked.

So you were just scared because it was Reggie?

No, I think it was just because I didn't know if I could throw it that far. He was throwing them on a beeline, and I've got this high arcing, you know, trying to get it there. So, uh, but by the end of the game, I got it. And kudos to him. He was, he was so kind. It was another thing about just how kind those guys were. Do you know, we played football Saturday afternoons and you'd come in Sunday morning and the guys would be making fun of you. Like, you only had 22 yards? What? Why would they not give you the ball? And but you knew in that moment they checked. They thought enough of you to look at the box score in the, in the, you know, in the Milwaukee Sentinel and, oh yeah, yeah, you know. So those little kindness, acts of kindness were every day, all day.

And do you have a lot of other embarrassing moments?

Oh boy. One time Gorman Thomas had parked— the player lot was kind of out outside center field. He said, would you bring my car around? It was a particularly bad day. And I came in through the gate and the guy was opening— you can't— you know, these— well, think of like a kitchen door, except they were outfield parking lot doors. And I scraped the side of his his, uh, did he have a big Blazer? The great big K5 Blazer.

Oh no.

And, uh, pulled up after a real hard day in front of the clubhouse, and I got, I got a little bit of business for that. And I came the next day with a check, said I'm gonna pay for it, and he just laughed at me, said, you're good, brother. So that was, uh, then, uh, there was another good one where Bill Conkle was the home plate ump And I would have to run the balls out to the umpire to refill his pocket. And I'm running out there and I can see in his eyes there was something behind me coming at me. You know, I made a joke. It was like the giant boulder in Indiana Jones. So of course I turn around and there's nothing there, right? I'm all alarmed and he's laughing. All kinds of pranks and silly things like that.

I'm wondering how scared you were though. Like when you— I don't know you well enough or have any idea of how hard you are on yourself, but I don't imagine that you've arrived at your success without being really hard on yourself. So when you've scratched that car, you're doing what? You're not just bringing a check. Like, you failed at your job, you're embarrassed, and you're somebody I'm guessing around that team is grateful enough that you just don't want to be noticed too much.

Oh yeah, that, that ship sailed. I think it was Pete Vukovich who was walking out right when I pulled up. And he ran back in laughing. And it was— it's a great— it's a great story to outline the kindness and the dignity that those guys had. They could have skewered me and they didn't. And Gorman Thomas could have been real upset. And he was like, hey, man, things happen. You're good. Don't worry about it. And still, you know, I wanted to do the right thing. And, and they were great. They were just They, they reflecting back on it, I hope that we can hold ourselves to the same standard that they comported themselves with because it makes a big difference.

As a Brewers fan, how much are you missing Bob Uecker right now? Because it seems like the one thing that's missing here with this World Series run.

Yeah, there was a beautiful movie that was actually produced by John Viola, one of our owners, about Uecker's life. It's really poignant. It's actually really fun and funny and at the same time bittersweet. That came out this summer, and we had good fortune to attend the premiere. He meant a lot to a lot of people. When I was there, now 40 years ago, he would come to the clubhouse in the afternoon, and I recall that he would play cards with Harvey Keene and Don Money. It was sort of their thing. And then he would, you know, he was so witty and so clever. And I just remember listening and just laughing. And that was sort of during the heyday of Johnny Carson or just before. So it was— He

would be on Carson all the time. But he was also funny. You were probably too young. He was also really dark, like funny. But he had a— he was an old man who had a He had a bit of a knife.

Yeah, I probably escaped it, right? Just because I wasn't old enough and it didn't really matter what he said. He was Mr. Euchre. And but he was— he certainly treated me well. He was always kind, smiling, friendly, made me feel like he was my friend.

Bill, what do you like about this Brewers team?

Oh, boy. It's amazing how well they You know, you watch the games and you're like, this is what they need to do to execute. And then they do it. And if they don't, if they don't do it, they tried to do it and it just didn't work in that instant. And that to me, it's just sort of like everything you expect, you know, as a fan, but still, as you know, watching baseball, you'd say, okay, maybe they should steal here. There they go. Maybe it's a bunt. Okay, move the guy over. It's like precision as to how they execute a game plan to win a baseball game.

Sazlo, you've drifted off. You're staring at him like dreamy.

Oh, I, I want to talk about the Panthers. I mean, uh, you know, the Brewers, okay, great. Tomorrow night's game 1. I got some Panther questions for you, Bill. You ready?

Yes, sir.

Did you feel bad like I did for Brady Tkachuk last night? I felt bad.

No, no, he's fine. He's— I think it's awesome. I think it's good for hockey. It's great for our sport. Um, Fans are passionate. Ottawa is an awesome place to go to a hockey game. The fans are into it. When I was an agent, I represented a couple of players. Well, right around the 2000s. I'm dating myself. But every time you go to Ottawa—

You didn't think you were doing that with your Vukovic stories? You didn't think you were doing that with your— you didn't think you were aging yourself with your Vukovic stories?

Well, it was a little different, but Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a passionate, wonderful hockey environment.

Good, because that, that makes me feel better, actually. Like, I— well, I don't have to feel bad.

Yeah, but you're talking about somebody— you're talking to someone who doesn't mind when everyone hates his team because they're— they can be assholey, but also they're champions. Like, he's somebody who enjoys— you enjoy the spectacle of Brady Tkachuk going back to the city and having torched what was a lovely relationship at one time.

Well, I didn't, I didn't exactly like the result of the game, let's put it that way. But the passion our fans have across the league, uh, and particularly the Canadian fans, it, it's wonderful. Anytime you can play a hockey game in Canada, it's great.

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Going for 2 when you're up by 5. Switching the zone when man isn't working. Oh, and building your new stadium in the state your team actually plays in. In sports, some things just make sense. You know what else makes sense? Drinking Jägermeister shots ice cold. Drinking it any other way would be like punting on first down, or letting your worst hitter bat first, or like going for 2 when you're down 3 with a second to go. It wouldn't make any sense. So don't let the team down when it comes to Jägermeister. Drink it cold or don't drink it at all. Jägermeister. Damn, that's cold. Drink responsibly. Jägermeister liqueur, 35% alcohol by volume. Imported by Mast-Jägermeister U.S., White Plains, New York.

Dan Levitar.

I hate that Carolina's gonna get this moment just because they waited us out.

Jonathan Sasselow. But I love that Buffalo's gonna replace the Panthers in this situation because those fans absolutely deserve it. Not going to the playoffs, what, 14 straight years?

I don't think they deserve it. We deserve it. I don't care about the Panthers.

We won twice already.

I deserve a third one before they deserve anything.

I just started paying attention to hockey. I live in a swamp. Gimme 3 in a row.

Sabers.

Buffalo deserves— eat shit, Buffalo. Why care about Buffalo?

This is the Dan Le Batard Show.

Do you like being hated?

No, I don't really care. Oh. Wouldn't say I, I one way or the other. Do you?

He, he also doesn't really care.

Touché.

Sure doesn't. Like, like, like you can't, you just, It's actually a good comp.

Yeah, I, I too employ a bunch of guys who don't mind being jerks.

Sorry.

No, it's— hey, it's all good. And it's, uh, we're, we're so fortunate to, to, to call this our job and to be in this game and to have passionate fans that care wherever they are.

Well, the team has had to go into hostile, um, environments before, but doesn't seem like as hostile as what was there last night. Did you have to prepare the team to perform in that sort of atmosphere?

No, I don't think it really— I mean, we got away from our game. I don't think it was the atmosphere that did it. I just— sometimes we just don't get engaged and our— we have a very specific, very defined game that we play well when we do it. If we don't, if we get away from it, it's hard on us. But I don't— I don't think that environment colored it one way or the other. I mean, I reflect back to, you know, some of the nights in Tampa or some of the other real good rivalries that we've had and was similar.

Just give me, give me the best of it, Bill. When you think of— excuse me for interrupting you— give me the best of what you have felt in a regular season hockey environment in your time doing this, where it's felt the kind of intense that you enjoy because you're like, I can't believe how alive all this feels.

Well, some of those Tampa games have been— have been— even the regular season ones have been outstanding. Um, trying to think offhand.

Last night ranks for you though? Last night ranks?

Yeah, last night. I mean, when you have that many people engaged in our sport who care, who are passionate about it, it's, it's, it's a privilege to be a part of. It's good for our team. It's good for our sport. Anytime, anytime you go into Montreal, there's, there's, uh, There's an atmosphere. You can feel it. There's a tension in the air. You're in Montreal for a hockey game. Toronto's the same. A lot of the Canadian cities are that way. Boston, Philly. I mean, it's a special— the anthem in Chicago. So there's a lot of those arenas that have energy in, positive or negative, but the energy's there and that's what's important.

Can you give us some of the things that people might not know about how you came to acquire Kachuk, how it is that you managed to do that? The second one, not the first one.

I don't know. I mean, it's been beaten up pretty good. It's— it was— it was not really— nothing comes to mind that I think is novel or would— would you— I can't think of anything.

So something more interesting with the first Kachuk acquisition, which is probably— we've labeled it as the most transformative acquisition for a franchise ever. And we're a market that's had LeBron James come to one of its teams.

I don't know. It's been— well, it's been a while and it's been beaten up so many times. I mean, it's— you give to get. And a lot of times when trades happen, the people making them might have more information about the specifics of all the different pieces and the reasons than others. So sometimes that which may appear to you in your judgment as one way could be remarkably different, and you would have no— you would have no way of knowing. So I, I just— they're straight-up trades. I'm glad we did them. We're very blessed. Love having those guys.

You're blasé about the whole thing. You're blasé about it. You're bored with it. You want to talk about being a Brewers bat boy. You're just done with the questions about the contract. You're bored by them. You're bored. You're bored by the questions. Zaslav.

I'm bored by it.

Yeah, I noticed.

All right, let me try to get a headline from you. All right, I know, I know it's super hard to win a Cup, and the Carolina Hurricanes had a great season, but in the halls of building in Sunrise. You gotta beat the man to be the man. We weren't there. The, the season got nuked by all sorts of injuries. Like, yeah, go, go celebrate your championship. Do it in front of us. You didn't beat us. This ain't real.

That's right.

It's pretty real. They're a pretty good team.

Fugazi Cup. Fugazi Cup. It's not the Stanley Cup. It's a Fugazi Cup.

That's a pretty good hockey team, I gotta tell you. They, uh, And there's a lot of parity in the league, and it's gonna be a battle all year long, particularly in our division. You see up and down how strong all the different teams are. And, uh—

That's not what I asked though, Bill.

How well coached they are as well.

What I asked was, in the halls of that building, are people saying, they were lucky what happened to us?

In the halls of what building?

Your, your, your building they play in! Bill, why are you making this harder than it has to

be? What building do you think we're talking about?

You're talking about game 1 in Carolina.

No, I'm talking about offseason. That sticks with you. The Carolina Hurricanes, your rival, they, they win the Stanley Cup. You have the season that you have, and you guys get into training camp and you realize like they're celebrating something, and it seems like their whole plan was let's just wait this out and hopefully the, uh, the Florida Panthers get injured.

No, they're pretty good. Hey, we got injured, they won it, they won it, they're the champions and they earned it.

It's only human. Did you just—

did you just wave a hand?

Did you just wave a hand dismissively? Yeah, I just— come on, you know it.

Hey, we gotta worry about our own stuff. That's how we look at it, and that's what we do.

I'm gonna put you down as a soft maybe.

You guys have ruined this interview. Bill Zito wanted— What'd I do? He wanted— well, you were afraid. You are so respectful of this man that your question, I could hear the fear in it. Like, what did you do? You talked to him about the Panthers and he wants to talk about the Brewers. How do you guys not see this? Let's

bring it back to the Brew Crew. I got a little wager. We'll see how playful you are about this, but you're a huge Brewers guy, and I don't know if you know this, this about Dan. He is the nation's foremost Tampa Bay Rays fan. So we, we got 2 competing interests here. I've got a wager I want to run across you. Hopefully you're in on it. If the Rays win and the Brewers lose, Dan's famous television personality father gets to bang the drum at a Florida Panthers game. But if the Rays lose, Dan has to go to the hockeyplex and do stop-starts.

Have you skated?

In high school. In high school.

You don't forget.

Very poorly. Very poorly.

I'm in, I think. I'm not sure I have the authority to, to, uh, dole out the, uh, what is it? What do you hit the drum with? A baton? What's the, the drumstick?

Drumstick. Yeah, drumstick.

Yeah. I'm not sure I have the authority.

What do you mean you don't have the authority?

I went to a game where the victory rat did it. I'm sure you can put in a call.

What do you mean you don't have the authority? How could you not have the I authority? have the authority to make a phone call.

I gotta be honest. I'm, uh, it's just, I'm not the drum guy. I gotta find out who the drum guy is.

Oh, you can be the drum guy. One, one, one, you pick up one phone and you're the drum guy.

He's agreed to the bet. I, I think you guys have

probably agreed to the bet or, uh, the best alternative we can come up with if there's some reason we can't do the drum. But I don't think I need to worry about it.

I'm, I'm just generally dismayed right here at how much more you wanted to talk baseball than hockey. Like you just announced, it's never happened to me before. I'm bored.

You guys asked me about 5-year-old hockey stories.

It was honestly a bad question. It is our fault.

Well, we haven't had the opportunity to speak with you, so it's been burning inside us. True.

And Zaslav was staring at you like I've rarely seen him look at anybody.

This man has been a major part of giving me and my family tremendous joy over the last few years. I'm very happy.

He's very good at his job. We're grateful. Are you aware of how bad the Panthers were the many, many years before you got here? And so But the way that you guys are longing around him, he was dabbling in childhood memories. Like, it is very clear that he has moved and touched that this team of guys who were winning a championship in '82 were kind to him when he was just a kid. It left an impression. And so he loves this team from a different place than, than most people love their teams.

So it just wasn't kindness to me. It was kindness to each other. It was kindness to visitors. It was the way they treated Uncle Wally, who was our security guard. Uncle Wally sat in a folding chair. You know, it was one guy. It wasn't— anybody could come in the room. Uncle Wally would just sit there and sleep, and we'd bring him coffee and brats and snacks, and that was it. But how every day Uncle Wally got treated well. It was everybody across the board and helpful. Just— I just think about— I don't know who it was. I just remember we had a doubleheader, and it was a terrible weather day, mud, and we're cleaning shoes pretty much the whole game. Guys would rotate. I remember players bringing dirty shoes up, helping us, and then taking the clean ones back down so we didn't waste cleaning time transporting them down to the dugout. Just the way it— all those little things.

Bill, Bill, can you tell me, tell us what the final 20 minutes of Game 7 against Edmonton were like for you?

The first or the second?

Game 7. The first time.

Oh, Game 7. It's a great question. I don't want to ruin your show thinking about it. Um,

I already love your first answer as a response for elaboration, how wonderful it is to hear the first or the second time. The first or the second

time was in the question,

but it was distinctly different, right? Because the second time you were able to, you know, we had a little bit of a cushion there. Yeah. Um, you were— there was a little less tension. Uh, The first time around, I think it was one of those things where at least I was at peace with myself that, you know, whatever's going to happen is going to happen. We did our thing. We have the lead. Things are okay. We're playing well. And I'm not sure. I'm not sure that's really the answer because I don't really know what I felt. I, I don't remember a lot of it.

Where is it? Because you were scared?

Maybe it would.

Maybe it would make—

it would make sense if you're going to lose 4 in a row. It wasn't that. It was— it was more scared. Here we are, 2 years. Like, we're not going to— like, I don't know. I don't know.

When you guys finally won and you were on the ice, were you surprised with your reaction? Because you were, rightfully so. You were very emotional on the ice after the win. Were you surprised that that was your reaction?

No, no. Uh, I'm a crier naturally. Um, like when I listen to— no, I'm kidding. Uh, but no, I had some— uh, I was happy for my dad. Um, I was happy to have him, him there with us. And, uh, I'll leave it at that. But that's— That was important to me.

How can you black out so much that you don't remember one of the great 20 minutes of your entire existence? Like, how do you not remember any of these details?

I don't know. If I knew, I'd tell you. And I would— I would— it would be wonderful to go back through and enjoy. I've never watched it. Maybe that— maybe I should do that and come back and tell you what I think reflecting on it.

Bill, you told me about— I remember— You told me about a car you scratched 40 years ago. Like, you don't remember what it was like the last 20 minutes of Game 7 when you're about to cough up a 3-0 lead and you got the best player in the sport on the other side?

Beyond what the— beyond the obvious, no. I remember Mikula in the corner. I remember, I remember McDavid alone in the slot. Oh yeah. Our sight of vision was McDavid, me, nobody. McDavid, nobody. I'm going, Way to press. And if you've ever tried to— if you've ever tried to hold a puck against the boards with your skate, with people desperately trying to— it's hard to do.

For so long. And

he's so alone. McDavid's so alone.

And I'm, I'm even thinking, like, fall down on it. We can eat a penalty, no problem. Just fall on it. By the time they called, like, of course, you have all the answers when you're not in it, right? I didn't make one mistake that game. That game I played perfect.

So,

you know, I'm watching it. I remember all those things going through my mind and then just like, yes. And I was real happy. Happy for Paul, too.

If I showed you video right now, if this is so out of body and I said, yes, Bill, that's you screaming, somebody put the puck in your mouth, just take the puck, pick it up and put it in your mouth. If I showed you that video, would you say, yes, it was so out of body, that did happen? That I was that— I was that terrified.

Oh, I'm sure I was screaming. I'm sure we probably couldn't replay it. I think sometimes I'm either— it's strange and I don't know if it happens in other sports, but when you're up there in the press box, it just— it's just blah. Just stuff comes out of your mouth that is— it's ridiculous. It's irreverent. It's wrong. And it just kind of is like, It comes out. So I'm sure I had some, some real great one-liners.

I don't know if there is a conflict on the schedule between a Panther game or a Brewer game, but if there is a conflict on the schedule, how are you doing this?

Multiple screens. We had the game on the other night. Well, if you— where we sit, if you've ever seen it, we've got the replay TV and then we've got the live feed TV, and then we had the iPad down below.

But I meant sort of if you— I'm assuming you have to be at a Panthers game if it's at home. So how does that work? Are your, are your attentions—

Yeah, no, I've got to work. I've got to work.

So, but will you be watching the Brewers? Will you be missing the Brewers? Like, is there a possibility of your missing stuff on the television? You're not going to watch parts of a World Series game that involves your childhood team that hasn't won a World Series since 1982?

Correct. But I'm blessed that I'm able to watch the portions of it that I, that I will watch. And we're going to go Friday night. So really looking forward to that.

Bill, thank you. It's good seeing you. Appreciate your time. I'm sorry that these guys asked you hockey questions.

Well, anytime, guys. I appreciate you.

Nice seeing you.

I'll talk to my drum guy.

Thank you for everything, Bill.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Down, Le Batard!

John, can you rate my Al Pacino from that billiard scene in Carlito's Way if I do it for you? I think it's pretty good. Yeah.

Jonathan Saslow.

You think you're big time? Well, you're gonna die big time!

That is, on my infamous scale of 1 to 10, that's a, that's a 7.6.

Solid. Good job. Good job. Good job.

That's a Sui nominee right there. This is the Dan Levitar Show.

I was made wildly uncomfortable by all of your behaviors, all of you. And I don't know who was the worst at this. I don't know whether it was Roy being truly terrified. That question— He's just got way too much respect for Bill Zito.

Well, the team has had to go into hostile, um, environments before, but it doesn't seem like Did you have to prepare the team to, uh, perform in that sort of atmosphere? That was a great—

Hey, Zaslow was worse because Zaslow— yet Zaslow, look how happy Tony is being made by Zaslow.

He said I asked a great question.

What was that? We forgot it.

Tony was the best in the interview.

Thank you.

By virtue of not speaking at all.

You've put me in a very bad position agreeing to a bet now that I, A, I'm not confident in, and if I lose— Stop-starts are going to be tough. Yeah, well, but I can't say no. I can't skate well.

He can't stop. You guys, can he start? I'm not sure he can skate. The starting might be an issue, but I know the stopping is gonna be a problem.

Do I have any ability to be able to rescind this bet and make it something else somehow? He doesn't know if he can get a hold of the drum guy. I just don't think this is gonna be the payoff that you guys want because I don't think I'm gonna be able to properly execute any of what this— That is the payoff. No, the payoff is me getting exhausted. It's not—

no. No, the payoff is you not being able to do it at all. Okay. Oh man, I nailed that, but my cardio's bad. You think that's the payoff? No, the payoff is you falling on your ass.

Putting the skates on is the payoff.

Yeah, you having to squeeze yourself into pads, that's the payoff.

All right, then that's where we are. I want to show you guys something here from yesterday, and I want to examine it. And forgiveness to the audio audience on this, it's very short, but I do want to break it down because it's just a couple of seconds of video. It's not very long. But I want to reexamine from earlier this week something that happened with Greg Cody. There are a couple of things that have happened this week, incidentally, that I thought were worth revisiting. One of them, we failed on Monday deeply when, when Amin El-Hassan was here. He was talking about football and we were talking about a punt. And he said that punt that was in the death box, he meant the coffin corner. And he doesn't know that the phrase is Coffin Corner. And so he called it a death box and we just skipped right past it 'cause we didn't know what the hell he was talking about. The death box. Yesterday on the show, Greg Cody was furious again with me because I printed an apology on Tony's Substack and he took off his glasses. And what I wanna examine with you guys here is, because this is not performative, Greg Cody has been mad at me for the last week, and he's been rabidly mad at me for the last week.

But in the middle of what was happening, He took off his glasses, and I want you guys to assess with me right here, what is the level of anger here on Greg Cody, and is it the angriest you've ever seen him on the show? Ooh. So this is all B-roll, there's no sound with it, but he is disgusted. And one of you mentioned, I think it was Zazz, I hated when my dad took his glasses off because that's when things were serious. I don't know if your father beat you. Did your father beat you?

No, but I, like, I, I could be afraid of my father growing up when he was serious, and if he took off his glasses, things were serious.

I was sitting and watching from out there, and you could— as they zoomed in here, you could see tears in his eyes. Like, he really was stopping himself from welling up. He's an emotional man. He is.

More so than ever as he has aged, and he has been, uh, you know, it's been a sensitive time for a number of— Late in life. Of different reasons. Yes, late in life, late in his career. That's right. At an age—

Well, not late in his career.

Brand new in his career.

Career's over.

Yeah, because Miami Herald.

You know, these things can feel like the same thing to somebody who is, uh, you know, gets all their identity from their work. Late in life and late in the career become the same sort of thing. They start to feel the same.

It could also be a bad verbal crutch.

Uh, yeah, that too. But, uh, I— how else are you referred— like, 72? I just—

You're just always killing our guests with the, the rewards that you're finding late in life.

They won't be here forever.

Yeah, like, you're just— maybe say pivot to career. Like, there's a lot of people that are gonna be like, I feel perfectly fine.

Well, Wilbon wouldn't be saying that.

Wilbon's never been fine about anything.

You think Kornheiser's the uplifting one?

No, dude, no. I think they're both— they're both negative. Yeah, they're— your boy, crotchety.

It's a great sounder. I've gotta— I have to admit that you guys—

General Angst, your boy.

You make fun of them, but 25 years is a fairly startling run. And when I think about— and there are other things to talk about here, but just in a moment of celebration, because I believe today is the 25th year, I believe today is the anniversary. Pardon the Interruption has an anniversary show. Pardon the Interruption's ratings are still good, for whatever this is worth. You guys tell me what you think it's worth, because we've been talking a lot about broadcast salaries and Tom Brady makes more per year than Justin Jefferson and Troy Aikman. makes, you know, about the same as Christian McCaffrey or Saquon Barkley. Like, we're talking about salaries all the time. And Pat McAfee is about to make $60 million a year. And his ratings for the most recent simulcast that he did were about 350,000. It's half as much as the Manning cast. It's half as much as PTI on most days. For those old guys, 25 years in, to have in the 5:30 time slot, like, totally random, still A show that does the bigger numbers than First Take and bigger numbers than McAfee and bigger numbers than everyone 25 years in at 5:30 after a quarter of a century.

Like, it's not a bad time slot.

The lead-in to SportsCenter.

It's everyone's getting home.

Wait a minute, guys. People don't watch SportsCenter the way they used to. PTI has dwarfed SportsCenter for more than a decade in terms of what the numbers they do. Like, people are watching this stuff totally differently. An appointed time is when it's available to you, and it's still doing numbers when And that's not even how people watch television anymore. No, don't, don't tell me about lead-in to SportsCenter. 5:30 is not— 4:30 is not a good time. 5:30 is not a good time. It's just the time.

4:30 is not. I think 5:30 is.

Everyone's getting home, putting on their TVs.

You think everyone is getting home and putting on their TVs at 5:30, that that's how people are still watching television? That's— I don't think that's how ESPN wouldn't be having the numbers problems that it has.

Well, I think the ones that are Yeah, that's a good time.

I would urge you to check out— if you think the 6 o'clock SportsCenter is doing anything, I would urge you to check out what those numbers are, because I don't think the 6 o'clock SportsCenter is doing anything. This is a larger conversation about other things, but once upon a time ESPN was in games, Baseball Tonight highlights. They did— they got 3 minutes, very little outside of these things that they were exceptional at. And then they outsourced the, the 4:30, 5 o'clock, and 5:30 time slots. They outsourced that to talking about sports instead of doing the highlight stuff. The highlight stuff has been left behind. The other shows that were 4:30 to 6 are gone. My show, Around the Horn, gone. What has stayed there as an American icon, one of the best sports shows there has ever been, is at 5:30. These 2 old guys who Yeah. Who have chemistry that's super unusual, who love each other but argue all the time and have genuine television friendship. It's the rarest of things. Go ahead and name all the others you got. History of television, 25 years, 2 people who have the friendship that is so strong that people still care about watching them because they know they might argue about everything, but they love each other.

And I put Pardon the Interruption in a totally different class from all of the other takers because, you know, they love each other. You know, it's not performative. They actually love each other. They're on television. There are very few— Inside the NBA has this. The Fox broadcast with Glazer and those guys has this. There are very few that have, oh, these people all love each other.

PTI actually had its best year in the ratings last year since 2015. The 6 p.m. SportsCenter is still a big-time draw for ESPN. It ranked just behind PTI. And then the second most watched part of their daytime programming headed into the evening before the games is indeed the SportsCenter. It's about twice the audience as shows like Get Up and Pat McAfee.

Why would that be? That the— for the highest rating since 2015, 11 years for PTI. Why would that be? Like, they're not doing

all the promotion that they're getting.

I don't have a good answer for you on what that question is. I would say that the decline has everything to do with the changes in television habits for the last 10 years, where it's not people get home and turn on the TV. Like, that's not a— I don't think that's a thing anymore, or if it's a thing, it's a really declining thing. Yes, more people might be home and therefore more televisions are on, but—

Television ratings only take into account the people that are turning on their TVs, and the, like, you know, like Raw used to do millions of viewers, and now if Raw gets a million, they're like, oh, this is incredible.

But watching things at an appointed time, I thought, was already a thing of the past. It doesn't mean that nobody's doing it, but it seemed to me Once you give people the convenience of you can watch any of this whenever you want to, people will stop watching it at the time that you're making them watch it because it's their schedule as opposed to yours. You can't give people convenience and then make something inconvenient of you have to be home at 5:30 even if you have traffic in order to watch this.

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