Transcript of "Jason Blum"

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Hello. Hello. This is not going to be a cold open. This is going to be a hot open. This is hot. Oh, I love it. Let's make it hot. Let's give it a little bit of a summer theme on this hot open. A summer. Here we are. We're on the beach. Look at those waves. They're beautiful. Is that a surfer out there? It looks like Will Arnett. Will, get on in here. We're doing a hot open. He's paddling in.

You guys cool with the G string?

Yeah.

It has no front.

Will, don't turn around. Don't turn around. Welcome to SmartList.

Smartlist. Smartlist.

Smartlist. Smartlist. Smartlist.

Jay, did you sleep okay?

I slept like a log. That's good.

That's really you were missed last night.

Lemon Bunt Cake and Rice Krispies really put me down. I love that.

We went back to the Bunt Cake, huh? Yeah.

Who was that? Was that yours, Shani?

No, that was a gift that somebody else brought in.

Yeah, you were missed, Will.

I missed it. Yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't come. I had a dinner with the boys. By boys, I mean my sons, not with my golf buddies or something. Yeah, we had a nice... Just my boys and me, which was really nice.

That's nice. Isn't that nice? Did you watch a movie?

No, we watched a little Sunday Night Football, which was fun. All the snow. Then we did... Sorry. Then we did do... We do movie night at night before bed, the littlest like to watch a little movie. They call it movie night. Usually ends up being put a movie on in my room on the bed, and then it turns into fight. Everybody gets weapons.

You don't fall asleep right away?

Last night, Denny hadn't seen Star Wars, and he kept saying, What are you talking about? This is the real movie. We're like, I know. From moment one, he's like, What's he doing? What's this guy doing? They're in a desert. He literally at one point goes, This is a great total human of your moment. He goes, As C3PO and R2D2 are walking on Tatouine, shot, hold your boner. He goes, That's a desert? And we go, Yeah. And he goes, There's no sea there. He goes, No. He goes, I'm thirsty. It was so funny. It was funny. Just right in that moment to say that.

Wait, but back to football. Yesterday, I was watching football, too, and I don't understand why they... The guy, when they know they have a camera them, they just hold one nostril and they blow it out the other way. They're always on camera just blowing their nose out. It's like, just get a Kleenex.

Oh, you're right. They should go get Kleenexes on the side.

Yeah, they hand them everything else.

Excuse me, can I get a Kleenex?

But why do they all spit in baseball, too? I get that the chewing tobacco and stuff, but only half the guys are chewing tobacco now. It's just this, but it's this weird, I'm a male, check it I can spit. People on the street, too, that just spit when they're uncomfortable or they know eyes are on them. It's like, Yeah, I'm a dude. People on a fucking golf course do it. Guys, it's like, You're not a real man, guy. We're just out here playing golf.

I was in Germany with Scotty on a vacation, and I spit in public. He didn't talk to me the rest of the day.

Yeah. He's like, What's the matter with you? What are you doing?

Yeah, we're on a huge fight.

Now, you've got an escape valve. You know what I mean? If you think about it.

Why? You can swallow saliva. It's built for that.

Yeah, but if you have to get it out, what do you do?

But exactly. But what saliva is so bad that you've got to get it out, put it on the ground?

Here's an interesting thing.

I was chewing tobacco.

I get it. Here's the irony is that knowing J. B. As well as I do, and you and I know him almost as well as anybody, he could go either way with that. He could see somebody work up, have some spit and swallow it and go, Both. Why don't you just get rid of it? Am I right about that, J. B?

I could argue both sides. That is so true.

I know.

It's so true, right? Do you think if I was a lawyer, would I have been a defense attorney or a prosecutor? Both.

You would have been both. You would have come in, Your Honor, I'm representing both sides.

Because I don't want anyone's involvement.

No, and you don't want to be caught out being wrong in either way. So you're just like, I'm going to cover both. My dad does that. My dad goes, he'll say, he'll make a point and go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah When you're about, you go intake, you're about to make a point, and he'll go, Having said that, and you're like, Oh, you're going to argue the other side?

We're going to get through our guests right now. But Jason told... I've never heard that story unless you told it, and I don't remember. We don't have to tell it right now. But Jason was doing a play, and he bought the cast.

Oh, my God, that story. I was trying to remember what story I told you last day.

God, it was so funny.

I think I've said that on this before. Really?

I don't remember.

Anyway. Just some horrible A real example of what a fucking monster I was in my early 20s.

Did we talk about last time the thing that we're not going to talk about yet? We did, right? What's that?

Yes. No. Yeah. Please don't even think about it.

We did, right? What is that? I don't know. I'm just going-The stuff that we're looking into doing with Did we?

I don't know. You guys are in control of all those.

We didn't actually talk about it, did we?

No, we've decided to-We're planning on doing something.

We're really excited. We don't want to say yet, but we are excited about something because we've had We've had, the three of us have talked to... People have said to us, Hey, you should do something with the brand, as gross as that sounds. Very gross. Then right for a while, we've... When we were thinking about going on tour, we were like, Hey, should we do that? Then we were like, should we do something? Then we've zeroed in on something that we are going to do within the smart list world that we're really excited about. We can't really say yet. I'm sorry, we're not teasing it on purpose to not make you Yes. But it is something that we are excited about and when it finally comes to fruition. So bear with us, but it's something pretty cool and it feels really organic to what we do. Right.

But first we're going to say hello. Yes. How about that? Yeah. We're huge fans of our guest today, not just his prolific work, but the man behind the Empire is a dear friend to all of us, a self-reclaimed weird kid. His favorite holiday was Halloween. After graduating from Vasser, His career started as a real estate agent in Manhattan before working his way up at a major movie studio. Today, he's a three-time Academy Award nominated. He's got a great first name. Two-time, Plime-Tame- I know who this is. Five-time, Academy Award winning, and a three-time Peabody Award-winning producer. His company, for which he is CEO and founder, is considered the driving force in one of the last genres to get people into the theaters. He's our brilliant friend, Jason Blum.

Jason Blum, Blumhouse.

Oh, look at him. Blumhouse. Hello there.

He's got his little warm jacket on. Look at him go.

We're doing it. We're finally doing it.

This is a very, very important day for me.

This is everybody just take it easy right now.

Well, it's not probably the listeners who are as excited as I am because what I'd like to share with all your fans. By the way, I have, I guess, like all your guests been listening, the way not to sell your product is literally the last five minutes is exactly... You basically said, We're doing something. Someday we're going to I'll tell you about it. I've never... We're stupid. It was unbelievable, which is why I'm very happy to be here to help you with your chocolate bars.

Well, it's just like if you were selling one of your movies, It's just like buying a billboard and just having it just be black.

We might make a scary movie. It might come out someday, and I'm not telling you what it's called.

By the way, effective. But for my sister, who may not know you, but knows the name of your company, Blumhouse. Blumhouse makes all the hit horror films you've ever seen, and it's all because of you. Every hit horror film is basically a Blumhouse.

You're saying horror, right?

Horror. Yeah, horror. Horror. Horror. Horror. Scary.

Okay. Yeah, I just got to get something off my mind first, though, before we start talking about horror. Because you guys are being really polite, which I appreciate it. But I think it's important for all your gazillion of listeners to know that I know all of you individually. Yes. I've known Jason the longest, but we have relationships. I think it's important for everyone to know that individually over the last... How long has SmartList been? Two or three years?

Five years?

Four and a half.

Four and a half years. I've probably, over the last four years, sent a total of 15 emails, five to each of you every three or four months, timed separately, begging to be on the show. Timed separately. Now, the The harshest response is Jason just doesn't reply. I love to promote the new movie on Smartlist, Ghosting Me.

No.

Not only that.

I don't think so. I changed my email address.

Which one? Not only emails and text, you also have done individual lunches, dinners, and collective dinners.

And a collective dinner. Yes. Lunches, collective dinners, and everyone in my family and everyone in my company knows this has been the golden chalice. For me, I just need a moment to let this wash over me. This is a pinnacle. Forget those dumb awards. This is a mountain. I've been trying to climb for four and a half years. The Ted Serandos, if you remember, when he went on, I said, They're going to put me on now. It's been two years since Ted.

I love that Blum said, Forget the dumb awards. He didn't say, Forget the money, because you never forget the money. But here's the one thing. Blum, let me say this. Don't forget Never forget the money. Never forget the money. Two things. One is this. You've known Jason the longest, but we met longer ago than any of us. Oh, no, that's true. In the mid '90s, we had a dinner in which you spent 90% of it on the phone outside in the I'm still in this village with your former boss. Yes.

Being berated.

Being berated. The other thing is, I noticed you're wearing your jacket, and one of the reasons is because you've been sleeping outside.

Let's talk about that. Still not It's still not in profit.

It's my favorite. I am still, since the moment you showed me your sleeping situation, Blum, I am obsessed with it. People use obsessed, but I'm literally obsessed walking through it. I am, too.

I never...

Walk us through it, please, if you can.

My grandmother lived in Northern California, in Petaluma, where I still have this little house. I don't know if it was before air conditioning, but she didn't have air conditioning. They had these things, I guess in the '30s and '40s, really, is when it started called sleeping decks. You would just put a mattress and sleep outside in the summer to stay cool. When I went to go visit my grandmother, I used to always sleep outside on a little mattress in a sleeping bag on the sleeping deck. Yeah. And ever since that time, I've always wanted a house where I could sleep outside. And about five years ago, we got this house in Rusty Canyon, and I built a deck outside the bedroom, and we have a completely screened-in porch. There's no heat, and my wife and I sleep there every night, and it feels great.

And now people don't realize, California, it actually really does get really, really cold.

Well, it gets cool at night.

Yeah.

48, 46 is about the coldest that it gets. I sleep with a hat. See my hat? I sleep with the hat on, and I have sweats and sweat pants, and I don't wear gloves. Multiple blankets.

You don't need a sound machine because right next to the sleeping deck is a... A creek. There's a little creek.

So we have a little creek. You just hear thiswater, and it's right in the middle of Santa Monica.

I said to him, I go, and we were in there, and he was showing me, and I was just blown away. I go, especially as a Canadian, I was really impressed. I said, How do you sleep out here? And he goes, Incredibly.

Yeah. I was like,Incredibly. Yeah.

But then it doubles down because what happens as soon as you wake up from that freezing night?

Then I walk down. It's a balcony with an outdoor stairway, and I do a jump in my cold plunge very quickly, which is very trendy and pathetic, but I do it. Then I take it.

It's at what? 37 degrees?

It's at 37, but I used to stay in for a minute every morning. And Vivi Mevo stays in for a minute or something, and I used to stay in for a minute every morning. Then I started getting sick. Every two weeks, I was getting a different sickness, and I'm convinced it was because I was doing that. Now I just go in for five seconds, wakes me up, and then I jump into a warm shower, and I'm on my way to school.

Now, couldn't all of this be solved by just opening the windowssame as in your main bedroom?

Yeah, just open the windows.

Not the same at all.

It's not the same.

Oh, not at all. Not at all. Because every so often we sleep in the bedroom with all the windows open, it's not the same.

Lauren's on board with all this. Does she do the cold plunge, too?

She does not do the cold plunge, but she loves sleeping outside, and we sleep outside together every night. She doesn't do the cold plunge.

Shani, you used to sleep outside, right? Sorry, a Five Guys. Every time they open a new Five Guys, you'd sleep outside. Wait a Dope.

Yeah, I got so excited. I'd starve myself.

Now, Jason, the excentricities don't stop there. Let's talk to... Let's explain to Tracy about the traffic situation and the parking situation in Los Angeles and how you've managed to circumvent that problem. Okay. Right.

But before that, and yes, I want to hear that, I just want to tell Tracy, Insidious, Paranormal Activity, The Purge, Get Out. It goes on and on.

I just want to get people up to speed. These are films that Jason has produced is what you're trying to say.

That's right.

He's responsible for all of these.

Split, Halloween. That's right. You left on a couple of big Five Nights at Freddie's, Megan.

That's right.

You left on a couple of big ones.

The gift. The Gift, which Jason was in.

Most importantly, the gift.

But I say all that because you can accomplish all this because to Jason's question, you have...

A van. A van.

Is that what you're talking about? That you drive in a van.

I'm obsessed with efficiency. I'm obsessed with it. One of the things I was very fixated on is I've always struggled with life in LA. I was very hot and cold in LA. But one of the things I really don't like is driving and traffic and valet parking and parking and all of that stuff. Losing the time. I really much prefer public transportation. There was a while when I lived downtown that I took the subway in LA. I would take an Uber. This is in LA. You take an Uber. Well, it went right downtown. So you take an Uber to the stop in Santa Monica and then take the train, and then I could walk to my house. Wow. That's a very LA way to take the subway. But anyway, the best thing-This van. I'm in my second generation of van. But I always said, if I made a hit movie, I was going to do this for myself. And the The first hit I had was Paranormal Activity, and I went right out. I bought myself the used Chevy Astro for $10,000. Now, at that time, this is about 12 years ago, there were very few minivans with a flat bottom, like a handyman, all All of the minivans had a hum for the back.

Nobody likes a flat bottom. For the back, I understand. This was completely flat. We took a minivan and I took it to a guy who did car stereo and gave him, I think, 20 grand. I think the whole was 30,000 bucks. He built an office in the back. I had a computer, I had a keyboard, I had a printer. That's crazy. A screen went up and down, all the windows closed. I would make it impossible for myself to back seat drive. I would never say, I wish you take... I would never think about, I wish you were going this route or this route or the traffic here, the traffic there. Because if you're in your thing and you're working, it doesn't matter. If it takes 20 minutes, if it takes 30 minutes.

It's like a waymo now.

It's like a waymo, exactly.

You're You're calling calls, you're watching cuts, you're receiving fax.

I'm doing my email. I'm printing out my boarding pass. You could print out your little speech. I'm printing out my speech.

Then if you need to park somewhere and there's no parking, what you did was you painted on the side of this van what?

Oh, I did. I painted. It was an electric. It was an electrician van, but it said electric. Oh, commercial residential electrician. Yeah. It looked like an electrician. Blumb power or something like that. Blumb power, yeah.

It looked like a commercial vehicle.

It looked like a commercial little handyman. It looked like a handyman.

You have one cone and you're good.

You know who used to do that? You know who used to do that a lot and was really effective for... Was the Stasi, the secret police in this Germany. They would drive around and it would look like a bread truck, and they would nab people off the street and stuff them in the back and then take them to the Stasi headquarters to torture them. You know what I mean?

So this is-The second part is a movie. We don't do that for real.

I actually bought speakers out of the back of some guy's van at a gas I did.

That could have been the guy who redid my van.

Did he have a flap on him?

And they were not real.

No, otherwise, it wouldn't have been interesting.

They weren't real, right? They were fake. They were empty, right?

Yeah, they were empty.

Totally. Now, Jason, you say your struggles with LA That implies you came from somewhere. Where is that place?

Well, I was born in LA. I lived here till I was five, and then I grew up in New York. I grew up until eighth grade. I went to public school in Dobbs Ferry in Westchester, and then I went to boarding school in Connecticut, which was very dramatic. Then I went to Vasser and Poughkeepsie. Then I lived in New York. For my first 10 years of motion picture shenanigans, I lived in New York in the '90s. I graduated in 1991, so I was there from '91 to 2000. Then I moved to LA in 2000. I've always thought about moving back, but I never really- But when you first moved to LA, you alluded to the fact that you lived downtown.

For a while, you lived in a hotel. You never wanted to commit.

I lived at the Ritz. Yeah, it was great. I love that. I still own the apartment if anyone wants to buy. I cannot sell that thing for the life. Are you serious?

What about the traffic about Laker games and stuff, though? When they were building crypto or staples or whatever.

Laker games was amazing because I had great parking. I could just park at my house. Well, I didn't really I'm not really go to the Lakers, but I could go to Staples to see shows.

Yeah, but you couldn't get in and out.

Yeah, I loved it. It was great. It was rare. You know what you mean if he was going out? I know what you mean. If I was coming back and there was a Lakers game, yeah, sometimes it was a pain in the ass. It wasn't that bad.

It That's not that bad. Now, do you not miss the idea? It just sounds so ideal. First of all, I've seen the Vassar campus, and it's incredibly beautiful. I can only imagine the boarding school in Connecticut was also gorgeous. When you moved out here to Los Angeles, did you not miss? Because we're recording this in the wintertime here in LA. It's just the leaves are finally turning, but it's like that most of the year in back east. Do you not miss all of that?

Yes, I miss That's what I'm saying. I struggle with living in LA. I miss it terribly. We're in Connecticut for the summer. I made a deal with my wife. My wife prefers LA, but we made a deal that when school holidays, we go to the East Coast. For all summer, I get to be on the East Coast, which I love.

But where you live in LA feels like the East Coast. Very wood. Wooded foresty.

That's true.

We'll be right back.

Once upon a bedtime at the Glenhaven house.

That kid It's the story of Fian Macool and the Chicken Tender of Knowledge. That's not how Miss O'Rean told it.

Never mind her. Now, who wants the Chicken Tenders of Lear?

Dad. For legendary chicken tenders, come home to Glenhaven Gold. Delicium. Deliciously crispy tenders made from natural Irish chicken breast filet. Perfect for tasty midweek meals, legendary chicken filet rolls, or an easy fake-away.

And now, back to the show.

You know what? Because you're a real estate agent, that's so funny, by the way. I didn't know that.

Wait, what?

He was a real estate agent.

I was a licensed real estate agent. When? In New York? I did it for Cromen Real Estate, 1992, 1993. It was an amazing job.

In New York City?

In New York City. That was after I sold cable TV. First, I sold cable TV, door to door, commission only. I made 29 bucks a sale. That's it. You only made money if you sold someone cable TV. For Time Warner? In Chicago. No, Prime cable of Yeah. Prime cable of Chicago. I loved commission-only jobs. And that's why the movies are the same thing. I don't get paid on our movies. I only get paid if the movies work. That started when I was really young, doing shoveling driveways. Actually, shoveling driveways is a good example of it. If I had to work for a landscaper and you get like five bucks an hour, or you could go shovel driveways and say, well, do your whole driveway, give me 10 bucks or 15 bucks. And I hated getting always a salary work for hire. I always like getting paid for the exact work that I did. When everyone else was a waiter, I sold cable because I'm like, I can make more money. It just pay me for the sales. The same thing with the real estate. When everyone else was a rail, I was a real estate agent because you only got paid if you rent a people's apartment.

I always loved sales.

That's cool. That's wild. I still love sales. Because you have the person, you have that... You're such an amazing personality that I wondered if you How did that aid you when you crossed over to producing? Because you're so personable. Everybody loves you. Yeah.

Thank you. I always say that think the best training I ever got for being a producer was real estate. Because it's the same as being an actor, you get rejected all the time. So most people don't rent the apartment, right? Most movies you don't get, most movies you don't get made. So it gets you very used to being rejected and you just got to keep trying. Very similar to acting. You got to keep trying and keep trying. It is sales. And then it works. It's sales.

Every part of this business is sales unless you save a studio job and you're on the buying side.

But even them, they're selling a direct... Studio people are salespeople, too. They're selling. They want directors to direct things they don't necessarily want to do. They want actors to do things they don't necessarily want to act in. They want their boss to make a movie their boss doesn't necessarily want to make. Everyone's selling. Everyone's selling to a certain degree.

And your company is so big now, you're doing both sales and you're buying and selling at the same time, right? We do. We do buy. You have people coming in all the time trying to sell you a pitch on something and you've got to make to make Do you like toggling back and forth between that?

I do. I like toggling back and forth buying.

Would you get a bumper sticker that says, I like to toggle? I'd rather be toggling.

I actually paint that on my van. I like be toggled. I'm like Jason. I like to do both sides. I like to do both sides.

Toggling electric. Toggling electric.

The long loss switch.

Let me ask you this. Okay, I want to get into this. What is the current... You and I have talked about this before. I said, Well, can't we do a comedy? I remember about a year and a half ago or something we had lunch, and I said, Can we make a comedy? You said, There's no money in it. I said, Really? In effect, you said that. The state of movies-There's no money for me in it. There's no money for you in it.

There's no money for me in it.

There's no for me. Right. Yeah. No, I got it.

You're not getting paid. You're not getting paid until the midwifery.

I got it.

I'm not the comedian.

Yeah, I got it. I read that. But what is the state of theatrical films on this planet right now from your perspective? Can people still make them? Can they make money? Do people want to go and see them?

Okay, let's just clear the record. On the comedy, my response was not, I can't make money in it, although Well, that is true. But the reason that we don't do comedy is because I think horror really works. You don't need massive, massive stars for theatrical horror. Yeah, because it's about the idea. Tv, different thing. Tv, comedy, different thing. But for a comedy to work, comedy is just very hard to work in movie theaters. There's so much great comedy. All of you guys have been part of a lot of it on television. Horror doesn't really work on TV. There's a lot of great comedy on TV. So to make and for a comedy to work theatrically, I still think it's very hard anyway, and you need a huge star so that it becomes expensive.

And there was a time as you-I don't like making expensive movies. As we know, there was a time, especially in the early '80s, where there were a ton of big comedy films driven by big stars. But as we know, especially if we go back and look at a lot of them, I've always maintained, it's hard to make a good comedy film because of the nature of making film does not lend itself to that element of surprise, et cetera. In television, you have to make it quickly. You have to keep moving. It works for comedy in that way. Making movies can be often tedious and quite boring, A. It's funny that the comedy works on TV and horror does not and vice versa. But what about the state of theatrical movies, of film?

Well, this is constantly on my mind, and I actually texted Aaron this morning, who runs all the AMC theaters because they had their biggest weekend ever. I've been asking everyone, I trust on that. Is this an anomaly or do you think-Yeah, but look at what worked.

It's Wicked, which was an IP already established for 20 years. It's Gladiator 2, which was a massive movie. Moana, which was an institution in and of itself.

Two Well, that's different. People don't want original movies. They don't. They say that they want them. But I can speak louder than words. That's right. People want... Familiarity. The reason they're all sequels and remakes, that's what they want. That's what the audience is showing up to that consistently, consistently, consistently, and even more so now, if you look at horror this year, one horror movie in 12 months really hit. Original. There were six or seven sequels that work, but one original horror. What was which one? I don't think you'd have to go long legs.

Long legs.

I want to see that. I think you'd have to go back 10 years to see where only one original horror movie worked.

Have there been any outliers in terms of films, that horror and or otherwise, that have done well in the last, let's say, since the pandemic, since 2020, in the last four and a half years?

Anything? Well, yeah, Our Five Nights at Freddie's was last year's our highest grossing movie of all time.

That was the original?

No, it's based on a game.

Based on an IP, yeah. But it's based on the game.

Based on the game, yeah. But that did 300 million bucks. I'm trying to think. We had our best... Megan was one. Megan was a huge movie. Black Phone was a huge movie. Quiet Place is not our movie. Huge movie, Conjuring. Those were post... Quiet Place was this year. Those were all post-pandemic. Horror franchises are... Like I said, we had our Insidious Five last year. It was the highest grossing insidious movie of all five of them. That was last year.

It was the most insidious of the five.

Of the five? I'm sure you've seen all five.

Of the five, it was the most insidious.Modes..

Hey, so Jason, without getting too much into the weeds for folks like Tracy, can you speak... What do you think the current appetite is in the business for these trick deals where instead of an actor getting paid a bunch money up front, like when you're talking about this scenario with comedies where by having a big star in there, it becomes cost prohibitive. But I think some actors, Cameron Dias is one of the famous ones that did it for a teacher. A bad teacher, where she basically didn't take a lot of money up front, but then had this definition for the back end of a profit participant, where if the film did really well, she got paid a lot of money, and she did. Because I know your model, without getting into stuff you may or may not want to talk about, you seem to be open to this type of structure in the interest of trying to get as many at bats as possible in the hopes of finding a great movie.

Well, no, it's more than that. That's our main tenant of our entire business is no one gets paid upfront, including us, just like my real estate and just like my cable TV, no one gets paid or you get paid minimum scale. And if the movie works okay, you get paid okay. And if the movie works really well, you should get paid more than you've ever made before. That's our whole-What about your Toggle business? The Toggle business is also an if-come business, by the way. It's a fantastic if-come business. Yes.

But I remember you saying that. I remember you Blum talking about who I won't name, but an actor who was in one of your films in the last 5, 10 years, who's a well-known actor who you said they made more money doing this. They took nothing up front. They made more money doing this than they'd made on anything else.

They'd ever done. They've ever done. That's true. That's how we keep getting people to work for us and take a gamble.

You didn't mind doing that, right? You didn't mind writing those checks to that actor.

The greatest thing I can ever do is if I write the biggest check to anyone's ever made on my-That means you've done It's like complaining about paying a lot of taxes. If you're paying a lot of taxes, things are going well.

Amen. Then why do you think that's not more universally embraced?

I wrote an article in the New York Times. It was an op-ed. I was very proud of it, and you can go back and read it. I don't read. Tracy. No, Tracy can go back and read it. Tracy read it to me. Or I'll read it to you. For New York Times. It was all about the fact that I believe if there's one, there are no rules to making movies in TV shows in my mind except one, which is if people have equity in what they're making as opposed to being paid up front, what they're making is better. It just is. Absolutely. I totally agree. That view has been be very out of fashion until the streaming correction, which happened about 18 months ago. But to put it in very broad terms, starting in about 2010, there was an enormous amount of money, Wall Street gave not just Netflix, but all the streamers money, not based on their profit, but based on subscriber numbers. And the way to get subscriber numbers was to spend more and more and more and more. And so the industry as a whole spent more money than it was making because it wasn't using profit as a metric.

You with me? Yeah. Eighteen months ago, when Netflix stock dropped, it's now back to beyond what it was before, which is going to tie into what I'm saying. But 18 months ago, Wall Street decided, that's dumb. Streaming companies and media companies need to be like every other company, which means they need to take in more money than they spend. So we're no longer We're going to reward you for streaming numbers or anything else or what you might eventually make in streaming. We're going to reward you for what actually makes money so that all the people who make content had to take a much closer look at their budgets. The budgets are now all coming down a lot. The quickest, most effective way to bring a budget down is to pay the people who make the most money, which are the actors, the writers, the directors, and the producers, people who make the most money, much less unless the thing that they make makes money. That's now- But the trick with streaming is that the ability to calculate what a profit is becomes vague, yes? Yes, but it's not. That's such gobbledygook. It's the easiest thing in the world to create They have the data of everything.

You just have to decide. A penny a minute, a penny an hour. It doesn't matter.

Whatever everybody universally decides on. It's way easier to make up a profit definition. Here's the The other thing that's interesting about it. I got carried away.

Go ahead.

No, I love it. I love it. I think this is a great area. This is the other thing. And I think that it's pretty cynical in the sense that the streamers, like you said, were given exorbitant amounts of cash to try to do that, to grow their business and to get subs. Well, it turns out that they figured out within that time, and this is probably five years ago, they realized when they started to offer things They started to offer ad-supported customers. They realized that their ad-supported customer was worth more of it to them than a subscriber that they would get more return on. And so eventually what the consumer doesn't understand that eventually we are going to be going back to the old formula from before. Network television. We're just coming to the tail end of this huge fucking cycle that was virtually meaningless. Now we're back to ad-supported viewing is going to be the thing that they are going after, et cetera. Am I right?

Streaming is basically an electrified VCR. That's all it did. You can watch anything whenever you want, but otherwise, it's going to be like it was before. I don't know if I totally agree with that, but it's changed a lot, and it's changed not very much. I do agree with most of what you're saying.

Because all the people that work at the streamers work at the network. That's true. Almost all the same people.

That's true. That culture is shifted, and all that stuff that they said that separated them and made them different at all the streamers now does not separate them or make them different. It's very, very difficult.

Well, but hang on. We're talking about something that for the most part is subscriber-supported. The ad-It still is.supported viewer is a small fraction of that. They want it to be bigger.

Not as a part of the general population because people still watch a lot of network TV. But for streaming, ad-supported streaming is a smaller piece than subscription for sure.

Yeah, and it's still hard to argue with having 250 million people spending $15 a month is a pretty yummy business if you can retain those people month after month after month after month. And it really is a retention business. It's not an ad selling business.

It'll be both. And by the way, movies are different in a different category than what you guys are talking about. Studios is different. But there will be a bunch of people, a bunch of subscribers paying a premium for no ads, and then there'll be a bunch of people watching programming with ads for either less or no money.

J. B, I don't disagree with you. What I'm saying is that that is what they have decided that they want to move towards because it is more profitable. And I guarantee you all of them are going to tend towards the thing that That is more profitable. It's what they want.

But if it was more profitable, then why wouldn't linear television be in better health?

Well, because there are things that are showing up that are proving that, which are things like Tubi and all these fast channels types of things. These are proving to be really effective ways that people are watching stuff who don't want to have to pay the subscriber a monthly fee and who are willing to watch ads. That stuff is growing. It's all about what's available. What is Tubi?

Do I have Tubi?

That's a long callback. That's like a three-year callback.

Jason Blum. I want to talk about your stuff because I'm a fan. First of all, I wanted to-Okay, well, then start. I'm going to.

He's got 17 million questions for you.

I do. Paranormal Activity is one of my favorite movies. I watched it a year ago with my nieces. Quote it. Yes, quote it. Well, just I could talk about it all day long. Then start. Okay.

You keep saying you're like a rapper who goes, I'm going to rock the microphone. Wait till I get on the... You're like, Okay, you've got the microphone. Fucking do it.What the fuck? When I get on the microphone, I'm really going to... Then fucking do it.

That's how I felt about this mystery product.

I know that's true.

Fair enough.

By the way, I'm a hypocrite It's a secret in my core.

Jason, tell me about it, because wasn't it true that the studio wanted you to remake it or they didn't like it or whatever? How did you convince them that they had gold and all that stuff?

Tell me about this. Paranormal activity. I'll do the quicker version of it. Isn't that the one that launched you? Yeah, that was what launched the company. But I had a guy, this very sweet fellow who I'm still friends with, and a very good producer, a guy named Steven Schneider. He It was a horror expert. I had a deal at Paramount, and he had a deal with us, and we had a deal with them. Paramount, whatever, was ignoring me. This guy, Steven, showed me this movie, showed me Paranormal Activity, and I saw it on a DVD at my house. It had been at a couple of festivals and whatever.

You were living in New York at the time?

No, I was living on Sunset Plaza, in my bachelor pad on Sunset Plaza, before I moved downtown. Exactly. I had passed on Blair Which Project.

I can't believe that. Now you're remaking it.

Yes. We're trying. We're trying. We'll say it. We're trying.

I know. Crazy.

No. But yeah, I passed on it and I was never like, my boss just was like, you idiot for a year. A year, I had to listen to that. But when I saw Paranormal, I had this like, oh, my God, what if this is Blair Wish? I didn't say this movie is going to be... I didn't the movie is going to be anything of what it turned out to be. But I definitely thought there was something to it, and I thought it was worth screening it in front of an audience. That's what I learned from Blair Which, is if you see anything somewhat that might be good, throw it in front of an audience. Yes, because you love testing. I love testing. Anyway- The smile on his face when you said that.

No, but it's true. I've heard you talk about that.

Testing is my dream. I don't like friends and family testing. I like testing with real objective people.

Testing the film in front of a random audience.

Regular audience.

Then they all fill out what they liked, what they didn't like, and you get a number.

I'm not such a big fan of that, but I like watching the movie with a regular crowd.

Got it. That's the best feedback ever.

Anyway, I have this itch I want to scratch on this movie, and I met the director, and he had basically sold it for 100 grand to direct a DVD to IFC, by the way, who never forget. A guy named Jonathan Searing was there at the time. He never forgave me for this because I said, It's the deal done. He said, No, it's not done, but I think I'm going to just sell it for 100 grand. I said, I think the movie should be in theaters. I told him the Blair Wicks story. I said, Give me a cut of whatever you make after you make $500,000. So I'm not going to cost you anything unless I make five times the money you've already made. Then I want a piece. But until then, nothing. And let me come on and partner, see if I can get it made with you. Anyway, three years goes by. No one wants the movie. I do the movie with the audience like I want to do. It's very clear if you see the movie with an audience, it's going to be a crazy hit. It's very clear. But I'm the schmuck producer.

I call everyone and say, You got to watch this movie with an audience. They say, Well, we've already seen it. We got the DVD here. It's sitting on my assistance desk and the movie sucks.

That's so good. That's the way a lot of conversations go in Hollywood.

Yeah, exactly. Wow.

We'll be right back.

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All right, back to the show.

So three years into this, I get, Paramount won't return my calls. It still drives me crazy that the movie went up with them because they hated the movie forever. But I get Dreamworks, this guy Adam Goodman. I know Adam. You know Adam? You remember Adam, right? Yeah, of course.

He's a great guy. Made a couple of movies with him.

Yeah, Adam and Ashley Brux, and they're working at Dreamworks. They're really into the movie. I give them credit for that. They said, But we're going to remake the movie. We'll put famous people in the movie. Movies have found footage movies, so I don't know how it could work with famous people. But I say this is my flash of brilliance, of which I've had two in my career, but this was one of them. I said, First of all, you got to pay me 150 grand because I need more than 100 for Orange, so I got to get them an extra 50 grand. Second, you got to put the original movie on the DVD. When we remake the new movie, you got to put the original movie on that DVD because I want it out there somewhere.

Oh, wow.

Third, you have to test the original parent-owned activity, you have to test screen the film in Burbank with 300 people, and you, Adam, and it was Stacey Snyder, his boss, and Stacey Snyder, you guys have to be there. And not because I want to release the movie, because if I said that, they would have said, You're an idiot. I said, Because when we remake the movie, I want to invite the writers who are going to write the remake, and I want all you executives to be there with the writers so we can decide which parts we're going to redo and which parts we're going to leave. I love that. I love that. Then I said to the director, Oren, who I give Oren so much credit for sticking with me all this time. Three years into this, he had 150 grand three years ago. He's still still still still. He's sleeping in my guest house for half the time. He was in San Diego, but he used to sleep in my guest house all the time for all these dumb meetings we would have where people would say the movies doesn't work. I said to Oren, Oren, I will bet you a nickel that if Adam and Stacey watch this movie with a recruited audience, which was impossible to do, if they watch this movie with a recruited audience, they're never going to talk about the remake again.

Just trust me. And by the way, worst case scenario, if they do, you're going to get a buck fifty instead of a hundred, so it's no loose. And I still remember Lauren, Steven, and I went to this screening. It was in Burbank, and Stacy was there, and fucking people went insane. And three people left the theater because they were too scared. And the movie ends and everyone goes nuts. And Stacey, I will I'll never forget, Stacy Snyder is at the bottom of the street, and she's literally... The writers were there for the remake. They disappear, and Stacy has the three of us pitching us the 30-second TV spots of how she's going to sell the movie. Wow. Magical release.

The movie as is.

As is. The remake is off the table. And then Spielberg gets the results of the test. He sees it like two days later. He loves it. And Dreamworks is releasing our movie. And then another thing, I won't go into it now, but Dreamworks then and Paramount split up, and Dreamworks went to Disney, and Disney Dreamworks could not have their first release be Paranormal Activity. So We were saddled with Paramount and another year of shenanigans, which is how it wound up with them.

No way. Another year from that moment?

It was a year. They said they weren't going to release it. They blackmailed us into releasing them. I've never really been this straightforward about it, but I will be now. Based off that test screening, we were able to sell five million bucks of international sales. Based off the fact that it was going to get a domestic release by a studio, we had $5 million dollars in sales. All the France and Germany, we sold territory by territory, right?

You're already in profit by a lot.

Oh, my God, in profit by the movie costs 15 grand. So we had 18 months to get the release, which, by the way, no problem. Stacey and Steven Spielberg love the movie. Dreamworks is releasing the movie. Boom. Disney, we're at Paramount. Paramount is like, We're not releasing the movie. It went on.

Why were they opposed to releasing it?

They thought it was a piece of shit like everybody else. What about this? The only savior was that when Disney and Dreamworks broke up, Adam Goodman and Ashley Brux moved from Dreamworks to Paramount. So internally, they were doing what I was doing on the outside. So on the outside, I was... And internally, they were saying, Guys, you got to... But everyone was saying to them, You guys are insane. Don't do this movie. Basically, what happened, in retrospect, history is rewritten. They did this strategic smart release. No, Adam and Ashley got them to agree to pay a million bucks in PNA to do this tiny release of the movie. Print And we contributed, I think, five or 600. They came to us and said, We'll only put in a million if you take 500 of the five million you have from international, which we know you're going to lose in four months, and you put 500 up, and we'll put 500 up, and we'll put it in 13 theaters. Demand it, which was only... The whole marketing thing was just like, how can we spend as little money as possible to get this movie out there?

Isn't it amazing?

I've never really, really told- That's incredible. That part of the story, but it's an incredible thing.It's amazing.

But isn't it amazing that you have this thing and what it takes to get people to believe in it and you just didn't stop? Isn't it fascinating that you can see it, but the people in charge can never see it?

Why is that? Well, No. You know, those stories, though, I mean, you guys know these stories, too. I have a little... It's always annoying the story. There's so many stories of I believed in it and nobody did. It favors the producer so much because executives, their job is to look at 400 things and pick 10. They have to not believe in 390 things. It's not really fair. Producers' job is to pick 20 things, believe in all of them, and and go, whatever it is. So I always think those stories are dopey, including this story.

It's fascinating, though.

No, it's fascinating, except it's not like... I give myself credit for that one thing of of putting that language in the test screening. But any of you or anyone, if you saw the movie with an audience before it came out, you would know it was a hit. That's what I'm saying. It's just I couldn't get anyone into the theater Yeah, but you did. There was no genius of knowing that.

But you did, and it still took all of that work to get it. Well, I had no clout.

It's like this little, this guy with no... I had no I'd produce six independent movies. They were all terrible. One was okay and five were horrible. So it was like, why am I going to waste my night and be away from my kids by this schmuck? Whenever one of my team has seen the movie and they think it's not good, which, by the way, which I got, too.

How under the hood do you like to get creatively as far as script notes and edit notes and all that?

I hate being on set. I like running my production company. I give usually a couple of notes on a script script, a few notes on a cut, depending on the cut. Sometimes I give him more notes on the finished movie than the script. But Cooper Samuelson, who you know well, he's the-The great Cooper Samuelson. He's the great. We've been together 10 years, and he really runs the movie. No, he does run the movie company, and he and his team are extremely involved.

What would you say is your fastball then? Identifying a filmmaker, a concept, a script, where do you think your greatest talent lies if it's not getting in there under the hood, day to day quality control, et cetera, et cetera.

Well, I'm a great picker. I'm a good picker. I'm a very good picker. I am a good picker. So that is quality control. And I'm a good seller. And I'm not talking about it's easy to raise money for the movies now, but I'm good at talking people into working for me, working for us. I'm good at it. But it's an easy thing. For me, it's an easy thing to sell because I believe it. I really believe in our model, and I believe in the company, and I I believe the model leads to better movies and shows. The only thing that I was going to say is there are really no other companies that just do one thing. That's been a huge advantage to us. Now, the second The second, the only other company that really does just do one thing like we do at scale is James Juan's Atomic Monster. And now Atomic Monster and Blumhouse, we put the companies together 16 months ago. It's a huge advantage to not do horror as a side hustle. Sure. Which that's what the studios do, obviously. But also most production company, most other production companies, they do all the thing, and we do the occasional horror movie.

That's all we do, I see every horror movie.

Well, Blum, of course you're good at it because that is what you do. You're a specialty. You understand it. Now you're doing it with James Juan. Talk a little bit about your relationship with James Juan and how that came to be.

Well, Well, I'm interested in growing the company, and I really felt like this is actually... It ties together a lot of the stuff that we've been talking about. It's that I don't believe you can make... Let's just talk about movies and not TV for a second. I don't believe you can make movies. You can make more movies that are good by just hiring more people. Remember, we only get paid if our movies are good or if they work. If they don't work, we don't get paid. So For us to go from four or five movies a year to seven or eight movies a year, we have to keep the quality the same. If the quality goes down, it's a disaster. The only way for us to grow is to go from four or five to six or seven And it was my view that the only way to get to six or seven was to bring in a partner, not just to hire four more executives, but to bring in a partner who was a visionary who was doing this on his own. If you take Blumhouse and Atomic Monster, and if those two companies just continue to do what the companies have done on their own the last 10 years, it's like 60 % of theatrically released horror movies have been done by those two companies.

Yeah. Talking about James One, some of the things that he's done.

James One, first of all, he's a massive director, separate business, Aquaman, Fast and Furious. But he birthed Insidious with us, which is how I met him. But he's The Atomic Monster is best known as the production company behind the Conjuring Universe. So all the Conjuring movies, Annabelle, La Yurona. It's a... Yeah, The Nun, The Nun 2. Nun 2, no one ever talks about Nun 2. It was the second-highest grossing horror movie of all time last year. No way. Wow. $270 million, The Nun 2. No one talks about it in Hollywood. Anyway, we're Next year, 25, is our first year where our release date slate will be... We're up to our eight movies. We have Wolfman, we have two original movies, we have a Chris Landon movie called Drop, and then we have Megan, then we have We have Black Phone, then we have Five Nights of Freddie's, too. Then these guys have a Mortal combat movie and a Conjuring 5 movie. Next year is our big year.

What percentage of box office does horror make up now in domestic It's like a billion dollars a year. Billion dollars a year.

Which is what percentage? It's about 8, 9, right, about 10%. Good Lord.

Every award show where we're lauding all these other people, the first five minutes should just be a standing O for you and Juan, just to say thank you for keeping us all at work. Now, let's get to the Oscars. Yeah, for sure. Five minutes standing O, Blum.

Right. They are starting a long time ago, they got really cinematic and less like the rap they used to get with slasher and exploitative and whatnot. They're like beautifully made films now.

There's less TNA. I will say that.

Sorry about that. Not to knock it. Now, do you know I heard, maybe I'm going to talk to you about this on the show, but do you know I heard that kids don't want TNA in movies now because there's so much of it on the internet that they don't want TNA in movies anymore.

No kidding.

It makes sense. No progress.

Yeah, and they don't want their driver's license either because there's Uber. If you can get it somewhere else, I don't want it here.

Jason Blum, I'm a big fan of Get Out, and we don't have time to go through it because we got to let you go.

But I didn't know there was-Oh, God, you're already over time. Jason He was very compelling guest.

This might be the quickest we've ever gotten to it and feel like we're just starting.

Yeah, we really are. I got so much more to go into.

God, I thought you were going to be a disappointing guest. I know.

I've been four years.

Bateman Bateman kept saying, I'm not going to respond to this guy's emails. Don't put him on.

I can't respond to him.

I can't make a deal. No, I can imagine before the show, I said, Did Blum email you the other week?

Oh my God, this guy won't stop. Who's going to break first? And then Sean, I'm like, Oh, my God. Sean broke first. Wait, Sean had a question, though. Do ask it.

Caller? No, it's too long to get into, and I can probably just Google it, but I did not know there was a different ending to get out.

There was. That was a note I had. That was an end of the day to get out where Daniel died. Or it wound up in I wound up in jail. Something terrible. Did they write it? Did they shoot it? Yeah, we shot it. It was at the test screening, and we tested it. Me and my very not thoughtful self, I come bounding down the island. I'm like, Jordan, the movie's great. You cannot leave this end. I didn't hedge. I didn't wait. I was like, You have to change the end. I said, Daniel is too good. Everyone is in love with him. The movie's amazing, and you cannot end him with him in jail. It's horrible.

Did Jordan Yeah, but that was your idea.

Yeah, he said, But that was your note. No.

You sent me that note from the back of your van. You said you were on Coenga.

You idiot. No, he was a man. No, I pitched him some horrible idea of what it should be to keep him alive.

In the original, I forget the name of the character, the girl in it, the lead girl.

Allison Williams.

Allison. I haven't seen her in a long time, but she ends up getting him in jail.

Is that what it is? I think now I'm forgetting, but I think the end, he's in jail. He winds up in jail. There's a scene of him in jail. It's so good how it is. It's so sad. Jordan, a month later, he had a new idea for the end. He reshot it.

What a filmmaker he is.

Amazing.

That's so good. Amazing. Tell me your favorite horror film.

Oh, just a softball right here at the end.

Just so we can alienate everybody he works with other than the person he names.

Any funny stories of you going up on a lion on stage?

I like Hitchcock movies. Those are my favorite in terms of those are my inspiration movies.

Okay, so listen, you got to get out of here. We got to get out of here.

What Blumhouse movies are people going to go to? Are We're going to come and see in 2025? Tell us right now. He just did.

I did. Wolfman is January. It's great. It's Lee Whannell who did The Invisible Man. It's amazing.

Is that Julia Garner?

Julia Garner and Chris Abbott. Yeah. Okay.

Wolfman is January.

Wolfman January. This original movie by Chris Landon, who did Happy Death Day.

Michael Landon's son.

Michael Landon's son called Drop with Megan Fahee, which is great. Drop. Then we have Megan 2. Megan 2. At the summer release. Summer release Then we have Black Phone 2. Black Phone 2. That was Ethan Hawk. That's Scott Derrickson. That was Ethan Hawk. That sounds like a fall release. That's Scott Derrickson with the great Ethan Hawk. With the great Ethan Hawk. Back as the grabber. Back as the grabber.

I thought they caught him.

Then we have Five Nights at Freddie's Now, clearly, you guys missed the first one, but you got 12 months to see the first and then see the second. It's going to be a monster.

Ten Nights at Freddie's.

Christmas release.

Christmas release.

If you're doing the math.

December release. Our friends at Atomic Monster have the next Conjuring movie have Mortal Combate.

It's a full slate of great movies. It's a monster year. You should consider doing the year after for Five Nights at Freddie, do it as a Christmas movie, Twelve Nights of Freddie, tied into Christmas. It's a great idea. That's a freebie.

You're welcome. It's a free one. It's a free one from us to you.

Blumhouse is bringing you all the movies you want to see. Go and see them. We urge you. We urge you to go and see them, and you are an unbelievable You were an unbelievable guest.

You were an unbelievable guy.

It took me four years, but there was a lot of pressure. I had to make it worth it. You delivered. Thank you, guys.You delivered.Thank you for having me. Jason, you're the best. Jason, you're the best. I appreciate it.

Say hi to Lauren, please.

Okay, I will. Lots of love to all of you.

Love you. And congratulations.

By the way, your new daughter. Thank you.

Thank you, our little daughter.

Bye, buddy. All right. Thanks, guys. Bye, bye. The man is a gift for Gab. We could expand this to four hosts. Very easily come in.

But aside from, totally, Aside from buying a movie from him, I would buy a house from him.

I know. I'd let him shovel my driveway. I'd let him shovel my driveway.

I'd let him fix my wiring. I'd let him fix my wiring. I'd let him fix the electric van. No, a very good person, and so is his wife.

It's just a good guy. A perfect example of how to succeed. When you're starting out in this business, if there's any young producers out there, it's a perfect person to look for inspiration of how he did it.

I know, but how would you say... He does have... He's trying to break down what's the recipe to become Jason His personality. But not to belittle his ability in the business, but people skills is an enormous part of this industry, no matter what lane you're in.

That's true. I will say this. I will say he has the... I was thinking about it, too, throughout the thing, what is that makes him so successful? Other than he says that he's a good picker. He's got tremendous people skills. He understands, but he's really smart.

Yeah. You have to be a lot of things, and he's a lot of things.

It's a good place to start is being really smart.

Yeah.

You know, JB, nothing?

No, I was looking at a text and I thought, are we getting-Now we know why you're not him.

That's an attentive.

Now we know why you're not him because he would never do that.

No, not at all. Well, Rob Armjard, stop fucking texting me while we're doing the wrap up. God damn it.

Rob was texting you?

We have pickups. We have pickups we have to get to. So let's get to a buy. Sean, you have anything on the list?

I don't have anything I got on the list that fits.

Really? How about... Let's see. Let's try a new thing. I'm going to give you a word here that I'd like for you to work into a buy, okay? The word is bifurcate. Okay, Will, would you like to go first?

We did that one last week, right?

Okay, how about a buyback?

What's a buyback?

A buyback.

What is a buyback?

Somebody with two backs? A buyback would be if you wanted to purchase something back from somebody.

Oh, I would never want to do that to one of his films. I would never want to go into his film after seeing something so spectacular and ask for-You would never need to. I would never need to go into his thing.

I feel like this is going to be really lazy.

No, I feel like this is really lazy. I would never ask for a need a buy back. We all even saw it coming. I don't know. We all even saw it coming.

It's not about to be called Bye.

What's that? What's that, Michael?

Instead of get out, it could be called buy. What's that, Michael?

Instead of get out, it could be called buy. There you go.

Oh, yes. It didn't clear. It was already taken. But yeah, the original title for get out was buy.

That's good. Smart.

Yes.

Smart.

Yes. Smart.'s good. Smart. Lass. Smart. Lass. Smart.

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