Transcript of NFL Draft With Coach Jon Gruden, NBA Playoffs With Carmelo Anthony, Playoffs And Fyre Fest Of The Week New

Hey, Pardon My Take listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Stella Blue Coffee is more than just great coffee, it's coffee with a purpose. Introducing We Brew to Rescue, a nationwide campaign using proceeds from our new ready-to-drink cans to help fund 1,000 pet adoptions this year. Every can you crack open helps a real pet find a real home. Simple as that. Made with 100% Colombian coffee, each 11-ounce can delivers smooth, drinkable energy with a boost of protein. Available in Espresso Cafe Mocha and Espresso Sweet Cream. Built for mornings, long days, and everything in between. Drink Stella Blue, fuel your day, and help save a pet's life. You can follow our progress in real time throughout the campaign by watching the adoption tracker on our site. Grab yours now at stellabluecoffee.com, Amazon, and select retailers nationwide. On today's part of My Take presented by DraftKings, we've got an awesome show. We've got Coach John Gruden in studio breaking down the draft. We've got the legend Carmelo Anthony on the show to talk about NBA playoffs.

Zach steps up in that interview too, big time.

It's Zach's GOAT, Carmelo Anthony. We're going to talk draft, we're going to talk NBA and NHL playoffs, we're going to talk— somehow the Rossini-Vrabel story continues. We've got Fyre Fest. We've also got a special thing for the AWLs and Fyre Fest for, uh, the book. So make sure you tune into that. And it's all brought to you by our friends at Chevy. Draft season is here, which means everyone suddenly thinks they're a GM. Which is when you realize some picks just make sense, like having a Chevy Silverado. Silverado has the power to haul pretty much everything— gear, grills, tailgate setups. So whether you're driving to a draft party, a road game, or towing a boat to the lake, you need a truck with strength, reliability, and the drive to go the distance. The same DNA you'll find in a Chevy Silverado. As capable and dependable as your top-tier draft pick, Silverado shows up and gets the job done. It won't flinch when the pressure's on and doesn't take plays off when it comes to trucks. Make Chevy Silverado your number one overall pick. Check out the current offers and build your own Chevy Silverado at chevy.com. Okay, let's go.

Welcome to Pardon My Take, presented by DraftKings. The crown is yours. Today is Friday, April 24th, and it's the NFL Draft, boys. The NFL Draft. Fernando Mendoza went number 1, which was a shocker to absolutely no one, and then we were off and running with some actual shockers.

PFT, then it was smokescreen season.

It was Arvell Reese falling all the way to 5. With, with the Cardinals taking Jeremiah Love, anytime you have a million holes and you can add a running back, you got to do it.

Yeah, it's been a tough day to mock Love.

Yeah. And then Carnell Tate going 4 was kind of, kind of threw, threw it through a wrench in the whole thing.

I actually thought this. So the 2nd overall pick, David Bailey. David Bailey. That was the, that was the original smoke screen. Yes, that was it. Memes. I just got to say, take my hat off to the New York Jets. As much as we clown on them a little bit, it sounds like they actually ran a good, like, psyop to fool everybody. It's like, we're not going to meet with Bailey. We're out on Bailey. Boom, Bailey back in.

They didn't do that. Bailey also got Darumuji's name wrong. Yeah, he was calling him Monty for the Cardinals.

Right.

But I don't know if he was part of that.

I'm thinking this was an entire operation. I'm thinking that the Jets are like so put together right now. That they're like, hey, we need you to mess up the GM's name, we're going to leak that, no one's going to think we're going to take you.

So it sounds like the, the main Jets insider hasn't been reporting any news.

Which one?

Sounds like, it sounds like everything's locked up in, in, in— was it Florham Park?

Yeah, Florham Park. Florham Park, our shit tight.

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it was, it was kind of crazy at the beginning. I, I was, I was shocked— not shocked because Jeremiah Love could, like, he's an unbelievable football player, but the Cardinals do have a ton of holes. I just didn't think he was going to go third, right? And then Cardinals I'll take going fourth was like, oh, okay. Uh, and, and I mean, the Giants, I know that, you know, grading the draft while it's still going on and immediately after the first round is fool's gold. We do it every year. The, the year that the Seahawks drafted like every single Hall of Famer, the Legion of Boom, and Russell Wilson, and Bleacher Report gave it an F. So you don't know. But on paper, I love what the Giants did because the Giants now, they could probably trade Thibodeaux. They might do that, but they have Burns, Abdul-Carter, and Arvell Reese. And then they got an offensive lineman to hopefully protect, uh, my— the name just, just escaped me.

Jackson Dart.

Jackson Dart. Thank you very much. So yeah, I like what the Giants did.

I like what the Giants did. And, um, if we could just pretend this part of part of my take never existed and wipe it from everybody's brains after I'm done saying it, I like what the Cowboys did.

Yeah, Caleb Downs falling to 11.

Caleb Downs was my favorite player in this draft. I have to like As of the end of this day, I have to move on and pretend that I've always hated Caleb Downs, but I thought he was the best player in the draft and having him fall to 11 and they— yeah, good job for the Cowboys. Jerry Jones or Bill Clinton was in their war room at some point. So I guess good job, Bill Clinton smoked that victory cigar. Good job getting Downs.

That's what— that's what our good friend Ohio Tate said.

What?

Jerry Jones has Downs.

He's down with a sickness.

Yeah, he's down with the sickness now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mansour Dallin. Good pick by the Chiefs trading up.

They traded up for that and then they basically replaced McDuffie and that was a good pick by them.

And then I love— I love Sonny Stiles. I love that pick for the Commanders.

We get him. Did you get any tweets off about him wearing a pin that said SS?

So, no, I actually kept that in the DMs.

Kyle Long, as I saw it, and I was just like, PFT. No, I said like, if there's ever a perfect marriage, so a guy wearing an SS pin.

So, well, let's, let's, let's slow down on them. Let's slow down saying that. Um, the image came up on the screen and I, I ran up in the gambling cave, took a picture of it with my phone, and then I was like, you know what, I don't want to give this— I don't want to give Sonny a hard time on draft night.

Yeah, he's your guy now.

But the one thing you can say is like, this is a great teachable moment. Yeah, you, you don't want As cool as your name is, just do it.

Just do your name. Sonny Styles.

We don't need to be a commander wearing SS on our lapel.

Correct.

And so I just kept that in the— Kyle Long actually hit me up and I was like, yeah, I wanted to tweet about it, but I can't.

Yeah, he's got an all-time name. Just get a big piece of jewelry that says Sonny Styles.

I actually think Sonny Styles is the best possible linebacker name. Yeah, it's a great linebacker name and he's super productive. Actually, if you look at his athleticism, this is kind of crazy. If you compare him to Kyle Hamilton, safety, okay, he's a half inch taller than Kyle Hamilton. He weighs 24 pounds more than Kyle Hamilton, and he ran a 4.47. Hamilton ran a 4.59, and Sonny Styles had a 43-inch vert. Kyle Hamilton had a 38-inch vert. So it's like he's got the athleticism of a safety, but he can play every linebacker position.

There you go.

So I am— I'm very excited. We need to reload on the defense. All our linebackers are old as fuck. I guess we got Chanel now, which is good, but the other guys are getting old. So I really like to pick— love that. Yeah, love the pick from the Commanders. Ordered a Styles jersey already. We're ready to go.

And then the draft, like, I, you know, Caden Proctor to the Dolphins is smart. They're trying to rebuild, start with some stud offensive linemen. But Ty Simpson to the Rams at 13 was another shocker. What a spot for Ty Simpson. I mean, you can't ask for a better spot for, for a rookie quarterback to go in. You have Sean McVay, you have a very good team, you have Matthew Stafford that you can learn from. That's like— I'm, I'm now just drinking all the time. I was already drinking the Ty Simpson Kool-Aid. I'm now drinking all of it that he's going to be a stud. Yeah, it's, it's great because he has zero pressure right now too, and he's got the, the best quarterback coach in the league, and he's just like That's just perfect.

And we got—

we're going to get Ty Simpson on, by the way. He is a Stoolie.

Yeah.

Uh, we were supposed to have him on before. Maybe it was actually good he didn't come on because he got— you can't ask for a better— he went from possibly a late first rounder to maybe the Cardinals to getting drafted by the Rams, Sean McVay, and a loaded team, getting to throw to Puka Nacua and learn from Matthew Stafford. And apparently they told Matthew Stafford Yesterday, which there's no way Matthew— like, I think the Rams are in a spot where they could, they could have Matthew Stafford stay for 2 more years and be like, hey, we still like that pick.

No, it's perfect. It's an absolutely perfect spot for him. In addition to like having the good player, what were you going to say?

Well, it's like it's a Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, or Aaron Rodgers, Jordan Love. Like, that's what the Packers did, like sitting a guy and letting him learn and being like, we don't need it right now, but when we do, we'll be ready to go.

There's zero pressure on him. He can, he can develop as he develops. Like, even if Matt Stafford gets hurt or something like that, I think it's still a perfect spot for him with the quarterback coach and the offensive coordinator and just Sean McVay in general. He'll make everything as easy as possible for him. And yeah, I think, I think that's a great pick. So they're kind of set up for the future there if they get their guy. Now you can also look at it like the Rams kind of traded Michael Penix for Ty Simpson. And so this was the Falcons pick, right? That they used on this one.

Yes.

So I think I think the Rams do not give a fuck about first-round picks, I guess, unless they want a quarterback.

Yeah.

And, and good job. I think they nailed it.

We'll see.

I mean, anything could happen once he got to the league.

I just think that, like, what— like, we, we talk about it all the time, but like, when you're, when you're talking about quarterbacks in the first round, the fit in the place they go matters so much to their future success. And you just can't have a better spot than where Ty Simpson is right now. Then we had your guy Reuben Bain, PFT, go to the Bucs. Good pick, they need pass rushers. And then memes—

wait, real quick with Reuben Bain, the funniest part of this pick was our draft analyst Stephen Che stinks. Has he had Reuben Bain, I think, listed as 40th overall player?

Thanks. Yeah, because he's got short arms. Because short arms is a big-time traits guy.

40th overall, yeah, and then he goes to the Bucs.

Yeah.

And also I found right, right when he got drafted, the Bucs were selling a T-Rex, like a little bobblehead T-Rex with Bucs uniform on it, unrelated to Reuben Bain. But I found that on the website within about 15 seconds of him being drafted. It sold out.

I love that. Yeah, I love that. So you have Reuben Bain and then Memes, Kenyon Sneak, which there was a moment in time that everything was happening for Memes. And we'll talk about the Knicks in a minute. But the Knicks were 15 seconds left in the game, up 1. The Jets were on the clock and the Mets had bases loaded against them. The Mets ended up winning, the Knicks lost, and then you got Kenyon Sneak and he's really fucking good. Oh, Hank, there you go. Caleb Lomu. That's actually a really good pick. Love offensive tackle.

Absolutely exactly who I wanted.

Yeah.

Yeah. Tell us about him. Tell us about his film.

He's an offensive tackle. He played at Utah. He's great at defending the quarterback.

Defending the quarterback.

Good hands.

You mean Okay, yeah, yeah, no, I mean the quarterback from, from defense, protecting the quarterback, protecting them.

Great watch. I think he's married, looks like he's married.

Oh, that's— that matters for Patriots.

Massive, big for the culture.

Nice hairdo. He looks like he was born—

oh, you walked into that?

Come on.

No, no, yeah, that was—

yeah, that was bad.

That was—

I was looking at the video and he was— I saw a ring, uh, I didn't think—

oh, he's a dancer too.

He looks like a very free spirit.

As a guy from Utah, he might have several wives though.

I was literally— that was—

you gotta have— you gotta be on high alert right now. That was bad.

Hank, I'm just gonna say the tape looks good.

Yeah, no, the tape looks good.

The pics and the tape look good.

Just what we needed.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, all right, what else? Uh, Makai Lemon. You like him?

Yeah, fucking Howie.

So AJ Brown's gone.

Yeah, AJ Brown's gone, but now it doesn't matter. We got a guy. Yeah, number one, number one, number— oh my goodness, number one receiver in the draft.

You think so?

Yeah, number one on my board for sure. Yeah, I had him first overall. Like, if I had won one, I would have gone him.

Is Mekhi Lemon a little bit of a head case?

He's a weirdo.

I know, which I love. I love that you're like, AJ Brown out.

Yeah, and then we're just—

I think Howie likes it. I think Howie likes a little bit of that.

We always say it, we always say receivers need to have a little bit of—

oh yeah, Yeah, he's got—

this guy's got— he's got an edge.

He's got like alpha, like a little— like he's got Godfather.

Yeah, Don Lemon, something.

He— I mean, to be honest, I have watched zero Makai Lemon tape. I've watched zero USC games if— unless they're playing Penn State. People, people are telling me he's good, so I'm just going to say, well, ask Gruden about it.

We'll ask Gruden about it.

Gruden said in the— when during the NFL NFL Draft Show, he said that he was his number one receiver.

So there we go. So that's big. Bears got— Bears got a safety, which I like. Dennis Allen needs— needs that hybrid safety. Dylan Thinneman. Thinneman. I think I got it right.

Yeah, Thinneman Square.

Yeah, we'll use that. Now we have— I mean, we— I, I— we still need defensive line, we still need some offensive line, but with him and, uh, Kobe Bryant, like, we have elite back into the, the defense. So I'm in on that.

I also think the Browns did a good job.

Yeah. Casey Concepcion is a fucking burner.

Concepcion. And then they got Fanoh.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Looks good to me.

Yeah, it looks great.

You know what?

I'm looking at this draft, Big Cat.

Everyone crushed it.

I think, I think everybody had a good draft today.

Everyone did.

Like, go through it. You tell me, you tell me who's a bust.

Mims just looked us in the face back here and said, There better not be a trade-up over there. If the Jets draft Carson Beck, I will light this entire booth on fire with you in it.

Okay, all right, so we're on Carson Beck.

Yeah, we're on memes.

Carson Beck would be a real shame.

Would be a real shame, but also really fun to watch.

What do you think about Proctor? I guess we'll talk to Gruden about that because Proctor was the one pick that, that Gruden did not seem—

Caden Proctor for the Dolphins?

Yeah, he did not seem fired up about that one. And then Frank was like I challenge him to go on walks with me and we can lose weight together. It's a bad start to the relationship, I think.

That is, that is tough. Yeah, yeah. No, I, I mean, it's not the most loaded draft, but feels like a lot of teams— besides the beginning of the draft and then the Ty Simpson pick at 13, there weren't like— it felt like everything else was teams getting good, good fit for what they need. And throughout the entire draft, so the Ravens getting a guard is what they need, you know. The— I mean, I do like the Kenyon Tsidique pick. Memes. They did go against your wishes of all defense this year, all offense next year.

I forgot about Kenny Zeke. He's like best player in the draft.

Dude, Doug's really, really good.

Remember we just fucking spam it to him?

Yeah. He ran a faster 40 than Bijan Robinson and Christian McCaffrey.

He's a stud.

He dominated the first half against Jameer.

Yeah. Jets just went best player in the draft at the time.

Yeah.

I'm— I actually have my grades ready for this draft.

Oh shit. Did you see this real quick? The, uh, Eagles traded up for Mekhi Lemon while he was on the phone with the Steelers. That's pretty crazy. That's nuts. So he was good. So that's a great pick, Howie. Oh no, oh no, what happened? What happened, memes? Was there a trade?

We got a trade.

Was there a trade? Oh my God, please say there was a trade.

Is there a trade?

This is, this is incredible.

If there's a trade, Zach and I have to run out of this Oh my God.

Trade up to the San Francisco 49ers spot at trade.

Oh, oh, that's going to— that's going to be Carson Beck.

What if it's Cole Payton?

Oh, memes. I can't believe you just said that.

Memes. What if it's Cole Payton? What if it's— I'm so happy. Who else could it be?

What if it's Nussie? He— dude, Nussie had a cyst on his spine.

Yeah, he got the cyst taken out. Cyst removed.

Can't be Carson Beck.

He's cystless.

What were your grades?

I'm giving every team an A. Wow. Except for the Rams. I give them an A+. Nice. And then the Dolphins, I give them a B+. Okay. So that's my, that's my entire first round grade.

And then what about, what about if the Jets take Carson Beck?

Well, that's kind of an exercise in futility to grade that because I think we'll all be dead. I don't think we're making it.

Well, no, he just said the booth.

I think we might all die.

We're just going to watch the booth burn.

It's just a booth.

I'm so happy I let you guys know what Memes said.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I'm going to stand by on that one.

All right. So in line with what happened in real life when everything was happening for Memes, let me do a quick ad and then we'll, we'll talk about the Knicks game. Wow. The Jets might take Carson Beck. This is awesome. DraftKings NBA playoffs are here and DraftKings Sportsbook official sports betting partner of the NBA. Boost every game day, the whole postseason. When the lights get brightest, the best players in the world show you exactly who they are. Playoff stars turn it up round by round, and DraftKings turns it up too with a profit boost available every single game day from the first round all the way to the finals. Bet player props, bet live from the opening tip to the final possession. Every bucket, every dime, every clutch takeover matters. Only DraftKings Sportsbook keeps boosting you all the way through. New draft— new sportsbook customers bet just $5. If your bet wins, you'll get $300 in bonus bets instantly. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app, use code TAKE so you're ready for the moment. That's code TAKE. Turn $5 into $300 in bonus bets if your bet wins. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours.

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First memes: the Knicks are down 2-1.

They're down 2-1. They, uh, they came out super flat. Mikael Bridges, 20, 21 minutes, 0 points.

So where— so I had, um, I, I had the great pleasure of watching the game with Memes, and, uh, he was talking crazy. He was talking crazy, PFT. Do you know what he was saying?

This is—

this is— no, this is 3 days after he said the series is no problem, don't even have to watch it, Knicks in 4. Memes at one point said, good, I hope they lose, they'll just trade everyone we have for Giannis. He's ready to just hit the Giannis button. That's how— that's how crazy he was talking.

Yeah, just like the swing of a loss just sends him—

No, it wasn't a loss yet. It was at halftime. It was before halftime.

They were down. Well, they were down 18.

It means there was also that like minute span where you had the grand slam in the Mets game, right?

Yeah.

You had Sadiq getting drafted and then you had the Hawks taking the lead.

All happened at the exact same time. And oh, by the way, the other thing that was happening during that time is Hank said maybe 15 total words.

He kept— he kept—

and, and Memes just kept on going, that dude just won't stop talking.

It's true.

He wouldn't—

he'd say— Hank said— in Hank's defense, like, he barely said anything, and he just kept on saying, that dude won't stop talking.

He knew— he knew what he was doing.

Not even—

I, I'm, I'm Memes' boss, and I'm going to have to talk to HR about being in a hostile work environment. I'm scared of Memes on a daily basis.

Memes.

He's such a douchebag.

So where do we go from here?

It's must-win Saturday.

Must-win Saturday.

Must-win. You lose, series might as well be over.

Do you put any of this blame on Max and Villanova?

Oh, good question, Hank. Great question.

Yes, 100%.

Power of friendship.

No, Max is my guy. Mikael is also his guy. And Mikhail is the reason they lost today.

Yeah, that's fair.

I'm willing to take some blame. Let's see who the Jets pick right now.

All right, the pick is in. The New York Jets have selected Omar Cooper. Let's go, let's go! Yeah.

Oh, nice! All right, let's go, let's go!

We're so bad.

That was the closest you guys have been to death.

If they had taken Carson, that would have been a crazy pick, memes.

Well, there, there was a story today that there might be one team that picks him in the first round, and that one team would trade in to do it. And then that exact scenario almost just played out.

Yeah, Omar Cooper is a stud.

Oh, hey, get him, Jets!

Hey, yeah, Jets! Hey, who's your quarterback?

Geno Smith.

That's right. Yeah, Geno's got some weapons.

He's got a lot of weapons.

I mean, that's actually like a really nice offense you have now with, with Breece Hall Garrett Wilson, uh, G— or, uh, Sadiq and Omar Cooper and offensive line. That's a fucking good offense. And your other tight end.

And another tight end. Last time— yeah, the last time the Mets lost 12 in a row, Mason Taylor, was 2002, and that's when the Jets won the AFC East.

There we go.

Patriots are falling apart. Bills have a new coach.

What are you laughing about?

I mean, it's funny that memes is like the last time the Mets made my life this miserable, the Jets actually did something good. Yeah, he's actually happy about the Mets.

And it was so—

he doesn't even—

he probably doesn't even remember that. That's how long ago it was when the Jets won the AFC.

Is that Frank Wright? What?

I think it might be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Look at that Jets room. It's looking good.

All right.

Good job, Memes.

Yeah.

Good job. All right. So the Knicks are— Zach, we'll talk to you real quick because I do love the yin and yang of Memes and Zach because Memes was just staring blankly at the TV over and over, just going, we didn't even get a shot. We didn't even get a shot. We didn't even get a shot, which was crazy for the final possession to not get a single shot off. That was disgusting. Zach immediately said, 7-game series, boys. It's a long series.

7 games.

7 games.

They're professional athletes. They know what's on the table. They know what they got to do to win 7 games.

That's very well said.

I felt like we played good defense. We just couldn't score, right? So we got to fix that.

I also just— KAT is the biggest guy in this series. Just let him just do it. But that's also the enigma of KAT. I mean, he's like when he was— I think he was started— what did he end up with? 21 points. And I mean, there was a while there where you just missed one shot and he was— I just— it's frustrating to watch at times. It's like, dude, you're so much bigger than everyone and you're better than everyone. Just go be, go be bigger and better. But credit to the Hawks.

It's just like, you can do this, cat.

Yeah.

Like he needs a teammate to gas him up. I don't know.

7 for 12 from the field.

I don't know what the Knicks were doing at the end of the game. What are they trying to accomplish on offense with some of these possessions, memes?

I don't know.

It's like Jalen Brunson is going to get the ball. He's going to do like a few feigned crossovers. He's going to go between his legs, try to jump back. That's not going to work. Like a little halfway pump fake but keep his dribble alive, and then he's going to dribble into traffic, pick up his dribble, and then hope to find— that, that's pretty much like the recipe for, for these end-of-game scenarios from Jalen Brunson. I feel like he has been better than this in the past.

He's been so much better.

He was Clutch Player of the Year last year, right?

I don't know if it's coaching. I don't know if it's he feels like he has to do too much, but they're gonna be just fine.

Okay, okay, just fine. All right, so just win. And if they're not, then Giannis.

Yeah.

Yeah. Or just run it back with the exact same team.

Pistons guarantee came through.

Yeah.

Double guarantee.

Double guarantee. Also, we hit our parlay.

Yeah.

Credit to all of us.

Nice work.

Tobias Harris, Duncan Robinson, and the Pistons. That, that, that felt like a very good answer by the Pistons. Played great defense. And then I have, I have kept my word. I've not watched a second of the Thunder-Suns series. Okay.

Well, you should watch like 1 second of it on replay. Okay. There's a very funny moment. And Devin Booker flipped out about it.

Oh, I saw that. I saw it on replay. Replays are allowed. Replays are allowed. I saw this.

Set the stage. Devin Booker, he's dribbling the ball down the left side of the court. Yeah, he's a little bit out of control going out of bounds. He then tries to throw the ball off of whose face was it?

It was— oh, was it Chet?

I think.

Was it Chet?

I think it was Chet.

It could have been Chet. So anyway, somebody on the Thunder, he tried— he tries to throw the ball off a Thunder player so that it hits them and then goes out of bounds. After a couple of seconds, Caruso goes over to the ref.

Yep.

And starts saying, hey, man, that's a technical foul. And then the ref just tees him up. Yeah. And then after the game, Devin Booker was like, I don't like to call refs out by name, but I think his name was James. He's like, but James sucked tonight as a ref. And he's like, he's— he let Alex Caruso call a foul. And it's true. Like, Alex Caruso did a citizen's arrest on him.

Yeah.

He was like, sir, that's a technical foul. Please issue it to him. But in every level of basketball, that's just a smart play. Yeah, that's— and it's completely allowed. So they don't— I'm saying all this to say the Thunder don't need any extra help.

No, they don't. They don't. And I mean, SGA was awesome. I did watch highlights. I will say that we also were playing softball during the time. But I mean, the Thunder just going to the next round.

Like, let's just—

let's just say it. They're going to the next round. But other than that, like, we have some I mean, the Raptors finally beat the Cavs after losing 12 straight games in the playoffs to them. The Nuggets, the, the T, the T-Wolves, the T-Dubs are currently housing the Nuggets.

They're going to say howling.

They're howling the Nuggets. I do like the throwback court they did with like the tiny logo in the middle. Aaron Gordon's out for that game. Not good. Also, Kevin Durant might not be playing on Friday, which is a must-win for the Rockets. But I got to— I got to tip my cap to the NBA. We got some series. Yeah. Like, like the Hawks, very much a series.

Yeah.

The Raptors-Cavs is very much series. The Sixers-Celtics is 1-1. Outside of— yeah, outside of the Thunder-Suns, we got— we have some series.

Yeah.

Bulls are up 20 at half.

Yeah. They're killing them. They're killing them.

You want to call it?

Yeah, I'm going to call that. I'm going to call that one 61-39. That's, that's way more than 20, by the way. Yeah, that's a, that's a 35. That's a 35 point.

That's 29.

Yeah, that's, that's not even close.

39 to 61. That's 29 points.

Yeah.

Actually, Hank, you're the math expert. Real quick.

Come on.

Go.

What?

61 minus 39.

21.

Damn, dude.

You're fucking good, dude.

Yeah, you're nice. That's exactly correct.

Let's, let's end this bit.

Well, yeah, I think that actually is the perfect time to end it because it's not 22. Yeah, 22.

It was close.

Oh, good. Yeah, we're going to talk some more NBA playoffs with Melo. Hockey. Hank, you're down 2-1 now. Sabers go into Boston.

Yeah.

No, it's—

this is going to be a grind of a series. Buffalo's— Buffalo's coming to play. Swayman's getting hit after the whistle. Doesn't like it. But that's— it's playoff hockey.

It is.

Can I tell the funny anecdote?

Sure.

Memes was very upset at Hank after the Knicks loss. And so he just—

just makes no sense.

He just turned to Hank and he goes, name 10 Bruins. And Hank just goes, no, shut that down immediately. He said, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not. We're not doing this.

I'm not going to play your little game.

10 is so many.

10 is so many. Yeah.

You got to be kind of a freak to name 10 hockey players.

That's the anger we've got floating around in our corner right now. Uh, just a constant edge that's going on with the playoffs.

I thought Hank, he sounded like he knew what he was talking about. Swayman's getting hit after the whistle. Yeah, we gotta step up.

Yeah, that's, that's pasta minus 3. Can't—

the best player, gotta do better than that.

Who's—

hey Hank, who's got to step up in game 4?

Pasta, Swayman. Okay, first line, nailed it. The Lindholms.

Flyers flied up 3-0, baby. Dominated and they had the box of the year.

Box of the year.

There was, there was a big fight. There was 4 guys in the box on each team at one point. It was great. Box of the year.

I love that people were saying the Sidney Crosby flop was unreal.

Yeah.

And he knew it too. The look, he looked back, he's like, yeah, that was—

yeah, the look that he gave was perfect. Porter Martone, great game.

Yeah, he's great.

Martone is McDavid. McDavid went to the locker room. I mean, the Ducks The Ducks evened up the series. Awesome late game. Also, the Stars and Wild played forever. It was double overtime. It was just like, I think I fell asleep in the first overtime. Sorry, my bad. But yeah, there's some good hockey series going on. We're going to have some hockey talk next week with one of our guys from, from Chiclets.

I have a take about this time of year.

Yeah, the Hurricanes are going to, the Hurricanes are going to win. They're going to win this series and win the next series. They're going to lose in 4 in the in the Eastern Conference.

The Fly Guy's got something to say about it.

I feel like they do that every year. Yeah.

There's too much sports.

It's a lot of sports, Hank.

There's too— there's too much sports right now.

Like the fact that as a sports podcast, yes, the best week of the year.

No, but that's what's so good about sometimes not having the playoffs going in both the NBA and the NHL is that there are so many games that you can't ignore.

And so you want— you want less sports.

No, I'm just saying it's hard to pay attention to all the sports. And maybe I'm just talking about—

oh, PFT has to watch the playoffs. Poor little baby has to watch the playoffs.

I'm talking about kind of owning you right now.

Oh yeah, 100%. I'm talking about tonight with the draft too. Like, there's just too much sports to pay attention to at one time. I want to focus. I want to— I like to focus on like, give me, give me 6 series that I can sink my teeth into.

I will say the draft could be— if the draft was a week earlier before the playoffs started, that would actually be nice. I was about to tell—

I was to do one worse, which people will get mad at. Who cares about the draft? The draft is not like— go, go back to when it was during the day. Like, the primetime draft shit is—

I, I completely agree with that though. The full one-day draft was the best. Yes, absolute best. We just wake up on Saturday, it's 11 AM, you're just drafting all day. That was great. Yeah, I agree with that. They didn't— but you knew this was gonna happen. They're just squeeze it out, you know. By the way, we shout out Roger Goodell for just using human shields. As always, he brought out a terrible towel. Yeah, some Steelers legends.

Usually he'll bring out like kids when he gets on stage for the first time or he'll bring out like troops.

Yeah. Yeah.

Our kids and troops.

No Hamas.

Yeah.

No Hamas. No Hamas. OK, before we get to Gruden, the story that will never end. Hank, I feel like this is time for you to maybe chime in. Mike Vrabel, Diana Rossini, more pictures have come out. I will say, let me say this at the start. One, we still don't know. It could have been a girls trip at the bar. So we don't know that. That absolutely could have played. And also a girls trip at the breakfast and a girls trip at the casino. All those things are on the table.

Hank.

Yep.

This is bad.

It's not good.

What is the opposite of not good?

I, I had a full-blown panic when they announced that he was going to do a press conference like he was. They kind of talked about how the Patriots made a pick. He was going to do media tonight. And if they traded down to the second round, he wasn't like— they already had it scheduled where Elliot Wolfe was going to do the second round. So if they had traded down, he wasn't going to have to do media till the 24th. So when they were like, oh, Mike Vrabel is going to do a press conference tonight, You guys had me scared that he was going to step down. That was terrifying. He did do a press conference, talked about family, owning up to his actions, and that he's going to put family first.

Still not saying what, but family. He's doing a good job of not saying what he's owning up for, but he owns up to his actions.

Right.

Yeah, right.

As we all, we all should.

Whatever.

Strive to own up to our actions.

You got to own up to your actions.

Most importantly, family.

Yeah, but family, family. My biggest takeaway was it was family comes first and then football.

Yeah, family.

What about us? I agree.

I agree.

What about his football family?

Also important.

Yeah, for sure.

Like everyone associated in the NFL, players, reporters.

Football is family.

Yeah.

Now, the way that the day got started was interesting because, like, it was just one thing after another. Well, before the day, before we even got out of bed, it was Mike Vrabel will be skipping the third day of the draft to seek treatment.

Yeah.

And the wording of it was objectively making me laugh pretty hard.

Listen, we don't— we don't therapy shame here.

No, no.

You got to miss out on a couple of fourth rounders to go talk to a therapist. Good for you.

But it's okay to not be okay.

Yeah.

Going to counseling. Sure. Undergoing counseling. Like he was like going, taking anesthesia and then going to counseling was just funny wording.

What do you think the counseling looks like? Is it just like a picture of his wife and a picture of Diana? It's like, this is your wife. This is not your wife. Bad.

Good.

Counseling.

It's a 12-step program.

Yeah.

Yeah. Listen, everyone's, everyone's dealing with stuff. You don't know what guys are dealing with off the field.

Yeah. You don't know what girls trip they might want.

Mental health is real, Big Cat.

I agree.

It was interesting though, because it was like he, he's going to undergo treatment on the third day of the draft. Not the first day. Like the third day feels like it's the right time. Where you can step away from that. Actually, as a Patriots fan, Hank, that might be the biggest punishment of all because Tom Brady, late round pick.

Mm-hmm.

So like he's actually proactively taking his opportunity to draft the next Tom Brady away.

Yeah.

And listen, when you have a good organization, you got to trust the other, you know, guys in the organization are doing their job. It's not just a one-man show. And he's going to, you know, focus on his family and the organization is going to do what they do.

Yeah, it does. It does feel like they there was some coordination at first between the two stories, and then the coordination kind of stopped somewhere along the way. And it's— it's a very, very, very sad and bad story.

Well, so, all right. So one thing I will say, and I don't care if people call me a pussy for this or like protecting— I've seen all the stuff about Diana's kids. I don't want to do that. I like— that's a fucking— that's a 5-year-old. Who, like, should never ask for any of this, never asked to be in the public eye, has been thrust in it. It's a child. So I'm not doing any of that stuff. As for Diana, I don't think anyone's had worse crisis management than she has, because like you said, PFT, the story was they both denied, and then Rabel's going to treatment, but Diana's still denying and blaming the media. And now we have pictures of them, uh, light pecking. At the bar the day COVID broke out, maybe saying goodbye, last goodbyes before COVID When have you— who amongst us hasn't gone to a bar and done a little light pecking with their bros?

You said you said you were going to inject yourself with COVID at that point. So let's not act like I got it 4 times.

Yeah, I got it 4 times.

But, but at the time of those pictures, you also were not respecting COVID.

Yeah, well, I'm— the COVID thing had nothing.

Good point.

It was like a fucking—

no, Hank kind of cooked.

Yeah, you're really—

Really? Okay. Yeah, yeah. Good point, Hank. Great, great point. The COVID thing. But yeah, it's—

it was a different time. Like, pre-COVID, like that people—

I don't give a fuck about COVID I was literally just saying a joke about COVID No, Hank's right.

It was like, yeah, before COVID it was like one long summer of love.

Yes.

It's like everybody was, you know, the Italians were close talking.

So that was my— so I think Diana has a couple roads she can go down. One is she could just do the I'm Italian.

Yeah, Italian.

Like, that's just what I do.

That's what I said. That's what I said first. It's like you're very, you're very active with your hands as an Italian person. Yeah, you're very demonstrative, very touchy, very feely.

The other thing is, I think it's time to maybe just say, hey, yeah, I did this. That could be another option, because the problem is the hard denial, the girls trip, all this stuff. It's just led to more. The story continues forever because there hasn't been— everyone wants their pound of flesh. She finally did nuke her Twitter account, which probably 2 weeks too late. And yeah, I think it's just like, just come out and say, hey, yeah, I fucked up and now I'm ready to try to move on. And people will give people second chances. But I think it's the denial part that, that, that is— she's again, the worst crisis management that's ever been given. That's probably got her stuck in this spot at this particular time where everyone's like, hey, we're going to keep making jokes because you're going to keep denying.

Yeah. And I feel, I feel very I don't know. I feel dumb. I did say that there was no smoking gun when we were talking to Jerry last week. We were also talking a lot about like the HR aspect of it. Jerry wanted to focus on the workplace. HR.

He still doesn't understand.

They don't—

he doesn't understand that. But I feel dumb for thinking and saying that. I think I want to— I wanted to trust my friend. I want to be on her side because she's had our back in the past. So I think I was definitely predisposed to take her side. And along those same lines, like, all this stuff is really bad and it's really, really sad, and it's sad for her family and his family and all that. And I, I don't know, I feel like I don't want to just like take a shit on her because this is like the worst thing that anybody can go through publicly. Granted, it's not anyone else's fault. Yeah, but still, it's like it, it, it feels like I'm not going to paint a scarlet letter on somebody. It feels bad. And I don't know, it just— it basically makes me sad and makes me like a little upset. But it is what it is. It's a crazy fucking story.

It's not what it is. And Hank, you— I'm happy you finally spoke up about it. It feels like it might be it. Do you think Rabel is safe?

Yeah.

I don't know if it's a confident yeah. I would probably say 60-40, yeah.

Listen, if it just comes down to it, if we fired every coach that cheated on their wife, there would be no coaches. Like, this is— it's professional sports.

The problem Vrabel has is that he—

I mean, Robert Kraft is not— I don't think it's like the most—

hold on, listen to me though— trustworthy. Like, it's more the reason why Vrabel is such a good NFL coach, and he is such a good NFL coach, is He runs a tight organization where it's like the, you know, the Patriot way of like no distractions, none of this. Like, you know, the team is first and nothing outside of it. This is a big story outside of it. And if he—

and so is Robert Kraft getting handjobs for the SEC.

He's not the coach.

Good point.

He owns the team. He can do whatever the fuck he wants.

But what if Rabel just told him the truth in the beginning like they did try and get the story?

I agree. If he told the truth, he's probably fine. I think it's absolutely true. But if he didn't, he might be in trouble. I don't know.

I think if they had both Drop the truth right at the beginning. A lot easier for everybody.

Yeah, the story. Because then, then when these pictures come out, doors—

I would imagine, I would hope that he was a little more honest with like, hey, yes, this is a thing that we're dealing with.

Mm-hmm.

And this is just what the deal is.

Yeah. No, I— but I think that if they had gone truth first, then like these pictures come out and everyone's like, yeah, no doubt they admitted to it. Yeah. I mean, like, we know this. It doesn't— it doesn't feel any salacious. There's no salacious manner to them kissing at a bar on a girls trip.

That's the thing. Like, it is— it's— it's like the perfect gossip, salacious news story. And the more they deny it, the more the people at Page Six are going to try to find—

correct—

and expose the different inconsistencies that they have. And then every time they find like a lie that one of them has told, boom, new story. And then that story is going to be like its own news cycle. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I don't know what the Patriots— I guess like you don't, you don't have to fire a coach, uh, for, for doing something like this.

Yeah, no, I don't— I actually don't think he will, but I just like, it's more—

you did earlier.

I know it's more precarious. I've been saying it's been— it's getting more precarious by the day. Would you not agree?

Today was a bad day, right?

Like, it's not— the press conference actually reassured me that it It went from 100% not getting fired to today happened. I'm like, well, now there's at least a world where this is a possibility, where before that I didn't think that was a possibility. You'd agree with that.

And then the press conference happened and I was like, all right, we're—

I think we're good.

Yeah. And he's, he's counseling. Yeah. Or day counseling.

I think on day one, part of my take, or maybe it was like the first week of doing part of my take, we did a PR 101 for somebody. I think our advice was like, just say that you're seeking treatment.

Yeah.

And it doesn't go to treatment and nobody will ever be like, seeking treatment for what?

Yeah.

Like Riley Cooper one time.

Yeah.

He went to seek treatment for being racist.

Everyone needs treatment.

And then he came back.

Yeah.

Yeah. Memes. You got anything, Max? Max loves talking about this shit.

No, I felt like Max all day today because like every different thing that came out, I would just be like, it was, it was just more and more and more very uncomfortable.

Yeah. I had, by the way, TMZ way late to the party being like, Hey, here's the sex hotel. Here's them kissing. And TMZ's like, hey, they were shooting craps one night. OK. Yeah.

Non-story.

Yeah. What are you going to say, Max?

I had to get the Dumb and Dumber GIF of Jim Carrey putting the ears in his mouth, going the fingers in his ears, going la la la like 5 times today. And then I was like, I don't even— I don't— I don't even feel comfortable saying this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I wanted to get— I just want to be—

yeah, I have zero interest in discussing— I'm with Big Cat discussing the kids stuff. No, it's like that stuff is dark. Yeah.

And I don't— and I think about my kids. And like, just like if you have kids, it's like, I get it. There's people are celebrities. The world is a different place now. The limits to privacy are severely lessened. And I get it. If you're a public figure, you deserve scorn and you deserve to be blasted. But the kids did ask for none of this. I also absolutely none of it.

I feel the same way about like the husband and the wife.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, Diana's husband and Brabel's wife did not deserve any of it.

Shady as fuck that they're putting like his picture in the New York Post. Yeah. Like, it just the whole whole thing makes me—

they're getting publicly embarrassed and they didn't ask for this. And it's that— that part sucks. If it's like gonna be anyone, it's— you keep it to Rabel and Rossini, who are the people who are the bad actors in this.

The fact that the pictures kind of establish the 6-year timeline.

Yeah.

Then also like unearths all of the clips of interviews that they've done in the last 6 years, and that— that's where it's like Diana's— they looked— some of those interviews are so bad, right?

Right.

Yeah. No, it's tough.

Even though the clip of from this show, it's a bad look.

What was that clip?

It was like her from the combine maybe 2 years ago, just talking about like how big of a man he was. And you were like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh no.

I have seen a couple of times where our clips are used in this and I'm like, ah, shit. Yeah. Ah, shit. Memes. Last words before we get to Gruden.

I was right.

Okay, perfectly said, memes.

But wait, Hank, who comes first?

Who comes first?

Me?

I don't, I don't like—

I don't know who comes first. He's right. He's— he answers the question. Who comes first?

Family.

Mike or Diana?

What is a good joke? Memes just told a joke.

Thank you.

He's got that dry sense of humor.

I also— the other— the last thing that I would say is I was—

you said that one loaded—

wondering, uh, if all of the smoke from this story is somehow going to affect the AJ Brown trade.

Oh, they can't trade to the Patriots now because of like everything that's happened.

There's like a spite, like—

yeah, no, I don't— I think that's done.

You guys want to—

I think it's gonna happen.

I, I just was about to text Groot. I was just about to text Malicek to come in here. We were talking about Diana, so I just— I had Diana in my text message.

Oh my God.

I would have been so bad.

I'm saying come in here. Oh no. Oh no. That would have been bad. Mm-hmm.

Didn't— Yep.

All right. Well, Hopefully that's the end of the story, but probably not.

I would—

for being totally honest, I would really like it to be— probably not.

And listen, again, I know why people like— they want— they want to hear a comment from us and me specifically, because I've been open about like— we've been very close friends in the past. So people obviously want to hear what I have to say. They want to hear me like atone for it. It's— it's just— it's one of those stories that's even just like too close where everything makes me very uncomfortable. We're— I'm trying to talk about it. Probably not doing a great job.

You know, you know what you need?

I need to suspend myself. No, I, I— you know what? No, I'll suspend myself from birthdays next Wednesday.

No, you just need a girls trip.

Girls trip.

Yeah.

Hey, Max, girls trip next week.

Yes, we're going on a girls trip.

We are.

Yeah. Fuck yes. Okay, let's get to Coach Gruden. We'll talk some more draft and then Carmelo Anthony and Fyre Fest. Okay, before we get to Coach Gruden, José Cuervo. When Cuervo enters, every moment just gets better. You find yourself in the center of the dance floor. You can't help but stand up and high-five those around you at the game. The room reacts like it just got the same text at the same time. You stop checking the time. Suddenly, small talk escalates to laughing so hard you can barely catch your breath. That's the Cuervo effect, a signal everybody understands, a moment that anyone can enjoy, and a good time that just grows. All you have to do is keep it Cuervo. We love José Cuervo. Get the Cuervo effect and enjoy some José Cuervo today. We're also brought to you by our friends at Lucy. Lucy is the obvious choice for the true nicotine pouch connoisseurs. That's why they're official nicotine pouch partner of Barstool Sports. Every other pouch is the same. Lucy Breakers are the only ones doing it differently to give you the longest lasting flavor in pouches. Lucy pouches go up to 12mg strength and have a unique change— that unique shape that feels great.

Lucy is in stores nationwide now, or get Lucy delivered to you ASAP on apps like DoorDash and GoPuff. Lucy's the only pouch that delivers long-lasting on-demand flavor. Find a store near you at lucy.co/stores to get it shipped, with 20% off your first order at lucy.co/pmt using code PMT. Lucy products are only for adults of legal age, and every customer's age verified. Warning: this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Okay, here he is, Coach Gruden. Okay, we now welcome on a very, very, very, very, very special guest. He's our very good friend. It is Super Bowl-winning head coach Jon Gruden in studio. Our guy, uh, coach, draft 2026 round 1 complete. And I wanted to start because I know the QB camp. Everyone should go watch it. You had a bunch of QBs come through your facility in Tampa. Incredible videos. You had our guy Mike, Mike Cadek snapping about 20,000 balls to all these guys. But I think one of the biggest shockers in this draft was Ty Simpson going 13th to the Rams. He's going to be a stud, right?

I think he is. I think it's, um, logical when you think that perhaps Matt Stafford had something to do with it. Perhaps he and McVay are having dinner in the offseason and maybe Stafford said, I'm going to do it one more year.

Yeah.

And if you recall a few years ago when Stafford got hurt, the Rams were last in the league in offense. They couldn't make a yard.

Right.

That's how important Matt Stafford is to this Rams team. They run a lot of different plays. I mean, they have a ton of different personnel groupings. The one thing about Simpson, he can do the two things that McVay likes. He has a football mind. He can handle all of it and he can make all the throws. And he really is a lot better player than he played down the stretch. He had that gastritis illness. He lost 20 pounds. Yeah, he had a shoulder and rib injury. But when he was healthy, he was lighting it up. They had 8 straight wins and they beat the hell out of Georgia. You know, they beat 4 straight teams that were ranked and they had no running game this year. But I do think he's in a perfect spot.

It's the best. We were saying that before. It's— it's— you can't ask for a better spot.

It's—

it's— very much similar to a, you know, Aaron Rodgers backing up Brett Favre or Jordan Love backing up Aaron Rodgers, where not only do you have the QB coach in Sean McVay, but you have no pressure on Ty Simpson to perform right away, and he's going to be on a really good team.

Yeah, and if something does happen to Stafford, you got a guy that can go in, get the ball to Adams, get it to Nkua, use these 3 tight ends. They got 2 good running backs. I like the pick. I was surprised he went that high though.

Yeah, yeah, I think everybody was. With, uh, the number 1 overall pick though, Fernando Mendoza, everybody— it seems like we've known for, for months that he was going to be the number 1 overall pick. I think their plan is kind of the same thing. They want Kirk Cousins to start the season. Do you think that they're actually going to do that or do you think they're going to get a look at— because you know how coaches get sometimes like, I don't want to start a rookie. I want, I want to slowly bring my rookie along. Then they get him in training camp. They're like, this rookie looks really good and they can't help themselves. Do you think that— do you think Kirk Cousins— I'll say over-under Kirk Cousins 2.5 games.

It's tough.

We got to see when the schedule comes out. I think if the Raiders win those 2 games, I think Cousins will keep playing. But if they lose those 2 games, you know how this league is. He just went through it with Mike Penix in Atlanta. Yeah, he's the starting quarterback. They take Penix with the 8th overall pick. And when you lose a couple of games, it just is a matter of time before the young kid gets his job.

What do you think? What do you think Mendoza does better than Simpson?

You know, I think Mendoza's body of work is more extensive. He started for 3 years. Ty just started the 1 year. You got to admit, 29 touchdowns, no picks in the red zone. He ran for 300 yards. The guy is tough as shit, man. You saw him get hit against Ohio State, get up off the ground, and then slice him twice down the field.

I thought he was done after that hit.

Yeah, I did too, man. But I just think his overall body of work is more extensive. Yeah, but I do think he's got to play better. He took 40 sacks at Cal 2 years ago. He did have a hell of a team. He had a game-winning drive against Penn State. He got off the mat against Ohio State. Um, but Iowa— excuse me, Indiana wasn't really tested very much this season.

Yeah. All right, so, uh, in terms of the other picks, anything, anywhere you want to go, who you thought had a really good draft, maybe a head-scratcher What, like, what jumped off to you?

Well, I think Houston moving up in the draft to take a guard. I thought that was uncommon where you trade up to take an offensive guard. Yeah, but it was late in the first round. It was a need pick. I like what the Giants did. I love what the Giants, you know, getting Arvell Reese. That's, that's a, that's a really—

at 5—

really good player at 5 and then getting that right tackle at 10.

Yeah.

I mean, you talk about Reese is not an edge rusher. Don't compare him to Carter and Thibodeaux and those guys. This is an off-the-ball linebacker that plays inside.

Yeah.

And he can go on the edge. And I think, you know, if you have a creative defensive scheme, they'll get more out of Rhys than most teams. But getting that right tackle was a slam dunk for the Giants. Yeah.

And they have just like we were saying, they can, you know, they obviously just traded Dexter Lawrence, but now they have with Burns, Thibodeaux, Abdul-Carter and Arvell Rhys, they could probably make another trade if they wanted to.

I like Tampa Bay getting Reuben Bain at 15.

Yeah, that he fell.

You know, Stephen Che didn't like it.

He liked him. Yeah, Stephen Che is a big traits guy.

But we make a living arguing with Stephen Che.

Yeah, I got a question about that. At any point during the night, did you look over at Stephen Che and be like, why the hell am I debating football with this guy?

I love it, man. You know what it shows you is I coached in the NFL. I studied this stuff year round. I was impressed with the host of the show. Yeah, I mean, he did a hell of a— yeah, great job.

No, Ron's the best host. He wasn't—

look, I got my notes, I got my handwritten notes. He's from the—

yeah, he's the best host of personal. He's so good. I mean, he spreads the ball, he gets everyone involved. He's so good.

Yeah, there was a lot of trades, which kind of, you know, trading up one pick, you know, trading up two picks, it was kind of strange there at the end of the first round. But I thought Kansas City pulled a big move going up to get the corner from LSU. They had to get ahead of the Saints and they had to get ahead of your Commanders. But that was a good pick, I think, for Kansas City.

Yeah.

In the top 10.

What about Tate? Tate going 4th overall. Two surprises right off the bat.

Like, Cam Ward needed a guy.

Yeah.

Yeah. They need a point.

They needed a guy that's a pro. When you go to Ohio State, that's one of the teams I've been to the last couple of years. The guy knows how to practice. He can play multiple positions. He'll block. He's durable. Good pick. I just wish he ran a little bit faster, but at least Tennessee's got a go-to guy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then the, the big surprise, number 3, Love. I guess some people had Love moving up later on. I thought it was— I thought it was just smoke and mirrors. I thought that the Cardinals would try to trade back or make people think that they were going to take Love because they got— they have some, some other needs on that team. But what is it like? What would it have to be for running back? Cadillac for you to justify spending a top 5 pick on him?

We took Cadillac in the top 5. He went Rookie of the Year and we won the NFC South. We won 11 games and he was a big reason why. I think Love is a Jahmyr Gibbs clone type. This guy's a great receiver, PFT. I mean, one-handed catches. You can line him up in empty backfield sets. You can use this guy so many different ways and he has no mileage on him. He split carries with Price, right? So you're getting a home run hitter, averages 7 yards a carry. The only problem with Notre Dame is they didn't play a lot of good defenses.

Yeah.

You know, some of those teams were bad on defense and they kicked the shit out of them. Yeah.

Okay. You're— so what other picks? I know you didn't love the Caden Proctor pick.

Why?

I just studied the quarterback. You know, I studied the quarterback every film, right? And I felt Alabama statistically, and it's true, they had the worst running game in history. Of Alabama.

They couldn't get a yard.

They couldn't make a yard. Everything was a gimmick play. And I know Proctor played wide receiver. They handed him the ball. That's not why I'm drafting him. I think his weight has gone up and down. I think he gets tired at times. I just think he has to realize this potential. He is a mammoth freakish talent. But when you watch him play every snap, there's too many peaks and valleys, if you ask me.

Yeah.

What about Sonny Styles to the Commanders? I love the pick. We need a linebacker. We got Bobby Wagner. He's not getting any younger. And I feel like he's, he's versatile. He can play every linebacker position. He's athletic. I like it. I like it a lot. So what are your thoughts on—

Yeah, I mean, in the history of football, you think of Urlacher, who had the same traits at New Mexico. I think of Thomas Davis at Georgia, converted safety. Fred Warner did it at BYU. This guy was a safety for 2 years at Ohio State. Yeah, 41 starts. His combine is insane. You don't see the production, though, the solo tackles running through. You don't see the sheer production you would like to see. But he has moved around a lot. I think there's a huge upside and he's going to be a high-effort player in Dan Quinn's defense. And you said it, you had to have this guy.

Had to have him. And I trust Dan Quinn. I thought that this whole draft it was going to be Dan Quinn is going to need his defense to turn around. And so he's going to take a guy from the defensive side of the ball. With the 7th pick. And then there was the other guy that I wanted, but I'm not allowed to say that I wanted him anymore. In fact, I have to hate him now. Caleb Downs to the Cowboys. I feel like he might be the best player in the draft and the Cowboys might have just gotten a steal.

Maybe.

You know, I think the kid that the Bears took at safety is a really good safety also.

Thenaman.

You know, Downs is a hell of a player, but his measurables aren't what Thenaman's are.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Speed, height, production. Thenaman has 100 tackles every year, 3 years in a row.

Well, and I was saying to you when we were walking in the hallway, like, you obviously know how Dennis Allen wants to run a defense. And I was saying like, they, they got— they went out and got in free agency Kobe Bryant. They, they now have a guy who can, you know, play all over the field in Theonoman, like a Malcolm Jenkins. Like, this feels like Dennis Allen, like, hey, let's make sure that our secondary or safety position is rock solid, then we'll go get pass rushers.

When I first watched the Bears a couple years ago, I fell in love with Gordon, the corner.

Yep.

Johnson at corner.

And they were hurt last year.

You got Byard, who had a ton of interceptions.

Yeah.

And Jaquan Brisker was a great player. Yeah, they're gone.

Yeah.

So to go out and get a world champion and you get this kid from the first round. Yeah, I think the Bears did a great job.

I'm excited.

Not only upgrading their secondary, but really making it formidable back there.

Yeah. And it's like, yeah, I mean, there's, you know, obviously the pass rush still needs to be addressed.

That's what Dennis Allen will do, though. Yeah. And he won't rush 4 guys and hope they get there. He'll, he'll drop a defensive end and bring one of these safeties safeties.

Yeah.

You know, he'll generate pressure with this creative defense, the style in which they play. But to have two safeties that can eliminate big plays against teams like Minnesota and Green Bay, that's a big deal.

I'm excited. I'm excited.

What about, uh, what about Lemon to the Eagles? Max is fired up about Lemon. Yeah, he seems like a psycho.

Yeah, he was one of my favorite guys. I just love his playing style. You know, 500 yards after the catch. He catches contested catches. He goes up and gets it. Not the biggest guy, but he's a badass, man. He's got no fear, and, um, he just has a playing style that's perfect for Philadelphia. When a quarterback starts scrambling, he'll scramble around with the quarterback and make some plays. And I think it allows Philly to perhaps, you know, let the other receiver go, let AJ Brown go wherever he wants to go, and let another guy play, start a new attitude.

Yeah.

And then, so I've been watching your series and it's awesome.

Yeah, go watch it on YouTube, uh, Gruden's QB Camp. It's very, very good. Yeah, so much fun.

I can't get enough.

The gifts that come out of it too are great.

Can't get enough of it. Um, I, I've seen you interview all these guys. I think I know which guys you like better than some of the others, but from your point of view, who is the next quarterback that you would like to see drafted if you were in charge?

You know, not to be like a kiss-ass, but all these guys have something. Carson Beck, you know, he won at Georgia big, you know, he won big at Miami. He's got a lot of playing experience. This Taylin Green kid at Arkansas, I don't know how you're not— you just saw Calvin Johnson. He's got the same measurables exactly. I know Calvin had it, the combine.

Yeah, yeah.

This, this kid at LSU, Nussmeyer, 2 years ago when he was healthy, dad's the offensive coordinator of the Saints. Very interesting. Sawyer Robertson, man, 59 touchdowns the last 2 years, 6'4". You know, you have to have a vision. I still think the kid at Vanderbilt, Pavia, you watch, he's going to get drafted and he's going to make a team. And when you see him play, you're going to go, goddamn, Gruden was right. Yeah, this guy's just got something about playing quarterback that very few guys I've met have.

Hank fell in love with him because he saw your camp. He saw your camp and he wants— I don't know what he wants him to do on the Patriots. Maybe be a designated third and sixth quarterback. Yeah, that might be what he can do. But he wants him just through seeing him on the—

I've had more coaches call me about Pavia than any of the others. Like, what do you think of that guy? Is he a good guy?

Yeah.

Does he learn it? I mean, a guy has a really good football mind. Nobody has won at New Mexico State. Nobody except Pavia.

And then Vanderbilt.

And how many guys win 10 games?

Yeah.

And when do you remember Vanderbilt beating LSU? Beating Alabama.

Yeah.

Beating Tennessee in Knoxville and beating Auburn 3 straight times.

Yeah.

That's unheard of at Vanderbilt.

Yeah, it's facts.

Yeah.

All right. So overall, how was it? How was the draft show? You feel good?

Yeah, I love it. I love coming up here.

You know, I know we miss you.

Yeah, well, I miss you guys, man.

We got it.

We got to maybe— I think maybe this football season, maybe we figure out at least like once every couple of months we come up for a Sunday and watch some ball with us.

That's what I needed to do. Yeah, I don't know what's going on with our football show. You got to figure that out.

Yeah, I do.

We're going to—

I do, I do.

I've heard you're, you know, you're getting too busy. You're getting too—

listen, I'm stretched very thin.

Yeah, I know.

There's a lot of— there's, there's, there's days where it's like no one wants to hear me for 10 hours, which is— there's some Fridays in the fall. I was telling Jake, 10 hours of me.

Jake, we did 6 quarterback shows. We're becoming lacrosse fans now. Yeah, we get our boxes.

Yeah.

And we're doing UFL games. We're studying the UFL. And then you got to study the draft. And to really make a comment on a guy, you really want to see some tapes.

Yeah.

So we, we do that. I spoke at the Ohio State Clinic, the Florida Gator Clinic.

I love it.

So I'm going to Greece.

Oh, let's go.

Cindy and I are going to Greece. I'll send you guys some.

How long you going to Greece for? A couple of weeks?

6 or 7 days. You go to the beach, huh?

You go to the beach?

What, in Greece?

Yeah.

I don't know. Wherever the cruise takes me, man.

Oh, yeah.

It's a great Four Seasons cruise. We're really fired up. We've never done anything like this.

That's awesome. Good for you. You deserve it.

I figured.

Yeah.

Get out in the sun.

Yeah, I need to.

Yeah.

All right.

Last question. Roback question. RHOback.com promo code take 20% off your first purchase. Q-Zips, polos, hoodies, joggers, shorts. Roback.com promo code take. Is there a guy that you've fallen in love with that did not get picked today? Maybe it's not quarterback who we can look for tomorrow or Saturday. You're like, okay, This is the guy. This is a grinder.

Grinder?

Yeah.

Not really.

Jake, you got someone? You've looked at everything. Is Jake in there?

There's a linebacker at Cincinnati. I'm not going to give you his name. He's a Cincinnati Bearcat. He's a badass.

Okay.

All right. Malachi Fields, receiver, Notre Dame.

Malachi Fields, receiver, Notre Dame is what Jake said.

That's when we were at that Pitt-Notre Dame game.

Oh, no. Jake, are you—

are you just a UVA guy?

Oh, great receiver. Oh, awesome guy. Fuck you.

Really, really good.

Get out of here. I should let Jake talk on this show.

He is DBU.

You know what?

Douchebag University.

This— these quarterbacks, because you spend so much time, right? You know, we watch all their films. They spend the whole day there. We go out to dinner with them. You work them out and you really pull for them.

Yeah.

So I'm really hoping these young quarterbacks— I love the tight end at Vanderbilt.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that kid's another New Mexico State transfer. He's a badass. But yeah, I—

was there one undrafted guy that you got that you look back on, you're like, I was very, very smart to give that guy a call?

Well, Alec Ingold, fullback.

Yeah.

Badger.

Yeah.

Badger.

You know, he's the senior Chargers now. Coach the Senior Bowl. And he was going up in the hole blasting guys and we were stamping Raiders stickers on his helmet trying to brown-nose him. Put a good— he was pissed that we didn't take him in the 7th round. Yeah. He's like, hey, man, you said you were going to take me and we didn't take him in the 7th round. So I said, well, you come as a free agent. He goes, no, I'm going to go to Green Bay because he's from Wisconsin. So we had to kiss his ass to get him. He ended up being All-Pro for Miami.

Yeah, great player. Now he's, he's perfect punter.

You know, the punter was a Pro Bowler. We got him undrafted free agency.

Yeah.

A lot of the times, you know, this college football, you guys know this. These guys have played on 2 or 3 different teams. You know, the lack of continuity in the—

I mean, trying to figure it out. Yeah, it's hard. Oh, I— last, last question. Do you like the Kenyon Tsidique pick for the Jets?

I did like it.

Yeah, because you're going to coach them next year. So that's— you got to see those picks. You're like, all right, I'll coach that guy.

You know, I wish they would have used them more. Oregon, all these great athletes. They've only had 2 first-round picks that I can remember on offense in the history of the Oregon Ducks. Skill guys, Russ Francis and Ahmad Rashad.

Can you believe that?

Yeah.

All these great players at Oregon. Those are the only two. So Sadiq, you know, he played with Ferguson, who the Rams took. He was a backup to Ferguson two years ago. So he really only had one year, but he had 8 touchdowns. He went to the combine, bro. He tore it up.

An absolute beast.

And he has the qualities that a tight end has to have in modern day football. He can block in a C-gap. He can get down the field. You can detach him. The Jets got a good tight end.

Okay, there you go, Mims.

All right. Good job, Mims. All right. Well, Coach, thank you.

We miss you.

Always great having you on. And we're that much closer to football.

Telling you, man, training camp will be here before you know it.

Facts. That's facts.

Thank you, guys. Good to see you.

Coach Gruden was brought to you by our great friends over at Reese's. If you remember school lunches as a kid and those times that you scored a Reese's, you were basically in kid heaven. Now you can go back to that same feeling. Reese's is dropping two limited edition cups, the return of the Reese's Strawberry PB&J and the all-new Reese's Marshmallow Cup. We got them right here in front of us. This is Strawberry PB&J. I had the marshmallow the other day. It's elite. It is an elite snack. If you see it, you got to get it. You got to try it. Younger you would have done anything to get one of these. Luckily, adult you can, but only for a limited time. So grab one before they're gone. Get yours at Hershealand.com. Reeses.com/reeses. And now here is Carmelo Anthony.

Okay, we now welcome on a very, very, very, very, very special guest, recurring guest, 10-time NBA All-Star. He is Basketball Hall of Famer Carmelo Anthony, friend of the show. Melo, he's also on NBC. You can watch him throughout the playoffs. He's with our friends DraftKings as well. We're all, we're all synced up. Melo, how's it going? How have you enjoyed the playoffs so far?

The playoffs been fun, man. I think, you know, just being in the studio and watching the games and, you know, being able to just— it's, it's, it's 2 games per night, right? So you get a chance to just really lock in on every game, every moment, every play. Timeouts, you know, communication, everything that you could think of, you get an opportunity to lock in and actually pay attention to the games and watch exactly what's going on just to be able to go out there and validate how you're going to express what you're watching at the same time.

Yeah, I feel like one of those teams that everybody has a take on is the Oklahoma City Thunder. Because they're so good, but they're very polarizing. Some people absolutely hate watching them. Some people think it's a beautiful thing to watch. Where do you side? Well, like, which, which side do you fall on this debate?

I love watching them play. I just love watching them play. I love their camaraderie. I love their, their, their freedom to play basketball. I, I, I love the position that, that the coach and also the front office put those guys in to just be able to go go out there and play basketball and, and focus on trying to win a championship, as opposed to focusing on a lot of the little things that a lot of organizations focus on, on a day-to-day. OKC just allows you to just go out there, players just focus on basketball, developing, um, and, and your journey, your process, and we will handle everything else off the court. So when you have that, it— and look at how they play on the court, it mimics, you know, the front office, it mimics, you know, president, it mimics just OKC culture.

Yeah. What about SGA and like the conversation that always happens with the foul baiting and he's on the free throw line? It does feel like it gets, it gets to like a new extreme every playoffs where people just pick their side and they're like, hey, this is just unwatchable. Or hey, this is, he actually has only fouled the 6th most in the playoffs or whatever it may be. Do you, do you have a strong take one way or the other on how SGA plays the game?

No, it's actually a skill set. Yeah, that's my dog. If you guys can hear my kid, that's all right.

What kind of dog do you have?

It's a, it's a, uh, Cane Corso.

So awesome.

What's his name? Ocean. Ocean.

Yeah.

Okay, can you, can you get him on camera at some point?

He's, he's blue, that's why. He's like that, that grayish blue. So I like him.

I want to say hi to him if he's around.

Yeah, if he comes on camera, say hi.

Hopefully he— hopefully he comes around. All right, but yeah, that's— that's— yeah, yeah, I, um, I really respect how Shea plays. And I— the reason why I say that, because it's a skill set, uh, to do what he do. Like, everybody can't do it, so you get mad at it because you can't do it. It's a skill set that he's worked on over the years to learn how to take advantage of the defender, take advantage of defensive, take advantage of, of what he does, you know, great. So if you can add that on, the object of the game is to put the ball in the hole and, and to get easy baskets and to get to the free throw line, right? So if you mastered that, then you did something great. You can't let nobody be mad at you for what you've mastered and then become greater.

Yeah, I mean, I, I think it is like one of was one of those things where there will be a couple times a game where we'll look at it and be like, oh, what was that? Like, he wasn't actually trying to get a shot up, he was trying to get a foul. But to your point, there is moments where SGA is so good with the ball in his hands that he gets the defender in a vulnerable spot. He gets the defender off balance. He gets the defender trying to like, you know, reach or, or jump too early. That is a skill, and that is like a, hey, he's so hard to guard that you get guys basically in spots that ends up being a foul.

Well, he's— I mean, he's, he's hard to guard because, you know, you're not going to speed him up. He's not going to turn the ball over. You're not going to make him do anything that he don't— that he doesn't want to do. If you send him left, he's going to go left. If you send him right, he's going to go right. And when you have that advantage, every defender is at your mercy when you have that advantage.

So how would, how would Coach Mello stop him? If you were to devise a defense, like what have you seen from teams that have had the most success either limiting him or playing team defense and how they're able to take out OKC?

Well, look, everybody's trying to figure it out. You know, obviously they did, they did defend the champs. So everybody's still trying to figure out how to, how to guard, uh, Shaq. Um, for me, it's, it's, it's no one way. I think you have to see multiple looks. You have to see multiple bodies, multiple looks. I think you have to throw bigger, stronger guys at him. I think you have to go throw smaller guys at him so they can speed him up in the backcourt, in the frontcourt. So you just don't— it's different ways. You never let him— allow him to see just one way. And I think that's what's happening today. Everybody allows him to just see switch, switch, switch, switch, switch. And he can manipulate that and he's going to take advantage of all, all of those switches. I'm a big, I'm a big proponent of double teams, getting the ball out your best player hands and especially doing what you have to do to win that game. Now, it may not work the next game, but we're going to try to figure that out for this game, right?

Yeah.

And to, to kind of what you and Big Cat were saying earlier, I think the fact that he's so good is what makes me so mad sometimes because like, I love watching him play, but then he does the bullshit. Then he does the, like you said, his skill set.

Yeah.

I mean, acting is a skill set too, but like, I don't need to see it all the time on the basketball. He's so good when he doesn't do that that it makes me frustrated when he does. That's what I get. I get a little bit fired up about. So out of the West, besides OKC, if there's going to be a team that stops him, I know things are kind of dicey right now. We don't know what's going on with Wimby. But if you were to say there's one team that's got a better chance than the others of stopping OKC from getting to the finals again, who would that be?

I mean, realistically, I mean, we're looking at— I'm sure everybody's banking on OKC and San Antonio Spurs in the Western Conference Finals. Like, I think that's what everybody is banking on. But then when you look at Denver, right, it's like you can never count Denver out of any picture. Like, I just— I don't know how they do it. I don't know how Joker do it. I don't know how Jamal Murray do it. Those guys just are prepared and they ready to play in the postseason. And you just don't know what's going to happen with Denver. So they, they, they scary. Minnesota, right? You just— they, they so athletic, they so explosive. You just don't know what you're going to get. Anthony Edwards is amazing. He went into Denver the other night and just really took that game from them. And Jaden McDaniels and those guys, the way they talking is like, They want to back it up, right? So I, I love, I love that energy. But when you, when you talk about who's up there with OKC, I mean, it's for OKC to go out there and, and, and lose that. I don't see too many teams in the West, um, that's gonna be able to handle OKC in 7 games.

Yeah.

All right. Well, how about one team in the West? Uh, we're not the biggest LeBron pod, but at this point, I mean, how can you not It's insane what he's doing. And the fact that he's playing with his son in the playoffs, it's awesome. How, how is he doing this? Like, how, how is he doing this? It makes no sense. He's, he's 41 years old. It does— like, we're 41 years old. I played one game of softball. I guess I'm not LeBron.

I could do it. No, I mean, I'm not—

I shouldn't go down this line.

I'm not—

I'm not training you because y'all haven't been training for 23 years and 25 years on the same, on the same thing. You know what I mean? You haven't been trained on the same thing. So when you look at LeBron, what he's doing, yes, what he's doing, we probably will never see this ever again, right? Maybe Wimby can try to top this, but I don't think we will see it again as far as just the longevity, uh, the, the really didn't have any many, many injuries over his career. Take care of his body, understands the game, understand the era that he's in right now. He understands that this is not the early mid-2000s. This is not 2010s. This is like 2026 where the game is completely different. So for him to transcend his game 3, 4 different times due to the shift in the, in the game and the style of play throughout his career is very impressive. I mean, he's going to get every record, obviously, because nobody's going to stick around and play that long and do that. And I don't think not too many people are going to have the opportunity to, to still lead an organization at 41 years old.

And I think that's, that's the biggest difference that people are not talking about. There's people who played long in this NBA and in sports, but there's not a lot of people who are still able to carry an organization at 41 years old. So that's a big difference. What he's doing is unbelievable. And it's just a testament to who he is, man, and taking care of his body. That, that shit is hard to do, to take it. Yeah, to take care of your body, your mind, and be sharp like that and be willing to go through everything that comes his way and still perform out there and still got his team up 2-0. Is this— we, we're talking, we're talking, you know, history and something that's iconic right now.

Yeah. Do you think he's going to retire?

I don't know, man. I don't, I don't know. I'm sure that he's battling that right now, right? It's, it's, you got to think, yeah, I'm playing great, I'm playing at a high level, but also I'll be 42 years old. Like, it's, you know what I mean? I got family, I got things that I want to do past, you know, post-basketball. I don't, I'm giving everything I can to this game of basketball. So if he decides to walk away He left it all out there on the court and he raised the bar for the NBA.

Yeah, I always thought that he would, he would come back for one more year and that he would want to do like the retirement tour, like every place that he stops. Like they did Patch Night at one point this year. He gets a patch from every city he goes to. But the more this season has gone on, I think he might retire at the end of it because I think he just loves golf too much now. Mm-hmm. I feel like this year he's like started to fall in love with golf and he's like, I'm going to forego the entire retirement tour thing. I just want to get out there on the course every day.

Well, if you can— when you can find something else that gives you that same, uh, that same commitment, that same dedication, that, that same, um, I would say competitiveness, like you, you— and you find a new love. Like, this is a new love for him. So for him to walk away from the game At this point, you're talking about 20-something years in this NBA. There's nothing else he could prove. Yeah, there's nothing else he should want to go out there and prove. Like, so if you want to go play golf, bro, go play golf. If you want to leave it with no, you know, no, uh, victory lap tour, go do it. Like, nobody's going to be mad at you.

Yeah.

Oh, we've got a big fan of yours here.

Ah, that's putting it—

like, putting it very light— lightly. Uh, his name's Zach. We brought him in here. He's on the couch right now. So I think he's got some questions for you.

Just to set the stage, bro, Zach, uh, and I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but Zach has argued, made the claim and argued that you are the best NBA player of all time. That's how much of a fan he is of yours.

Zach, I need you around me, Zach.

What's going on, Carmelo? How we doing today, my man?

All good.

How we feeling?

Good morning.

Start off today feeling good?

Absolutely.

I love that, dude.

It's, uh, great to virtually meet you. I, uh, had a couple questions. That was cool with you?

Shoot.

I also want to say congratulations on, uh, Hall of Fame, and also want to say double congratulations, first ballot Hall of Fame. Okay, you know, kind of cements you as maybe the one. I, uh, I was curious, uh, so you were just 19 years old when Jordan brand branched off from Nike and they signed you as their first signature athlete, Carmelo. Like, what was that relationship with Jordan early on, just business business, or did it transcend that early on?

Well, it transcended later. At that point in time, when I signed with, uh, Brand Jordan, again, I was 19 years old. I had no wherewithal of like the business of the sneaker industry, of sneaker companies. I had no, no idea of what it meant to be a signature athlete at 19 years old. So As I got older and started getting that, getting that experience and being around MJ at times, just being around the brand and starting to, you know, starting to want to figure things out on my own and starting to learn that business too. That's kind of where me and MJ start the, the business relationship started to, started to come in because now I had the wherewithal to sit down at the table and have conversations that we can really be impactful about, whether it's community, whether it's, you know, brand, whether it's sneakers, whether it's apparel, whatever it may be. It took me to kind of learn the game and learn the industry and mature too at the same time.

I think that's awesome. I do want to say congratulations on that as well. A lot of guys couldn't do that, Melo.

Not at all. Not at all.

Not at 19.

No, we're talking 19 years old. First signature on a— like, we're talking Jordan, you know. I just want to say congratulations on that. You did fantastic. The 5.5s, that's a look. Great shoe.

Thank you, man. I'm trying to bring them back out.

I think you should. I think it'd be a great idea.

I know you might have to call Jordan Brand and then tell them that.

I can write letters, we can campaign. I'll go wheat paste the streets.

I mean, okay, good question, Zach. Keep going.

Uh, I was also curious, you know, like, with the pressure and the expectation a city like New York has playing Can, like, can you put— has anyone ever, uh, I was just curious if anyone's ever had like a chirp or a comment made to you after a loss by a fan that kind of stuck out, maybe put a battery in your back, flip the switch to get you back in that mode to compete? Like, was there ever a guy who said something that was like, maybe not the nicest, but it hit you in a spot to where like, all right, I go get back right on the court?

You know what's the worst thing somebody could say to you as a fan and you on the court? Is you suck. Like, that's the worst thing somebody can say because you just look at them like with such disgust. Like, do you really fucking believe that? You know you don't believe that. Like, why you really believe that? So you start, you start questioning yourself like, damn, but he did say it or she did say like, why did they say it? Then what, what am I doing wrong for them to say that? So you start playing that in your mind though. But I would say that, you know, you suck because a lot of people just say that because to try to get your attention. Uh, but those are words that you hear, that you hear, you suck. Nobody want to hear that they suck. Like, who wants, who wants, who wants to hear that? Even if it's, if it's a fan and you just on the court not paying attention, you're going to pay attention to somebody saying, hey, Melo, you suck. Uh, so it's that, and it's also sometimes there's no, it's no words, right?

It's, it's fans coming to the game with brown paper bags over their head. Like, that right there is embarrassing, you get what I'm saying? So So sometimes it's worse, sometimes it's not.

I like that take though. Like, if somebody says— if a fan says you suck to you, it makes you stop and be like, what did I do that made this nobody— yeah, tell me with such confidence that I suck.

Yeah.

And it's like you psych yourself out.

They call you and say, yo, Melo, and you, you know, man, you be thinking that it's— and you take a look at that, you suck. Like Where the fuck that come from? Where does that come from?

They get your attention first and then they hit you with it.

Yeah, absolutely. It's all love though.

Yeah.

All right, Zach, good job. Keep going.

And, uh, we're, you know, we're all aware, like, your, uh, your Encore career has come to an end. You are currently analyzing the game with the NBC, but, uh, and, you know, you're connecting with former teammates and competitors, you know, through the pod, which has been great. But, uh, is there ever a world where your next chapter includes maybe a front office spot at an organization? And kind of, if so, is there like a one-one spot you maybe have your eyes on?

Uh, no, no front office. Uh, front office for me is, again, I like my freedom and I like to, I like to be impactful in, in, in, in different areas in life. And I never want to, um, at this point in my career, close that off and close that off and shut that door to other players. Right? So if I'm in front office, then I can't communicate with other players. I can't go in the gym with other players. I can't do things that I want to do, that I love to do outside of the game of basketball because I'm in the front office. So, you know, although the front office is a great job and a major, major, you know, kind of job, I still love my freedom, you know what I mean? I love my freedom after playing 19 years in the NBA. I love the freedom to just move and build and create and, and and be impactful the way that I want to be impactful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, all right, so we're recording this on Thursday morning, so it's before Knicks-Hawks Game 3, but what do the Knicks have to do? Like, because that was a— that was bad. That would— they had a lead going into the fourth quarter. They, you know, Jalen Brunson defensively wasn't able to hold up against CJ McCollum. What, what is the answer there for the Knicks? Because this is a series they absolutely should win.

Well, the Knicks should win the series, um, but Atlanta is very good. Uh, they, they're a team who is well coached. They're a team who are, who have found their identity throughout the course of the season, especially after, uh, trading Trae. Um, and they found what works for them. And I don't think people expected CJ McCollum to fit in like he does with, with the Atlanta Hawks. It was early in the season when that trade happened and people were saying, oh, you know, get rid of CJ, CJ doesn't fit and he doesn't do this and he doesn't do that. And now look at him, right? Because CJ's been here before and he's a veteran and he's been in those moments before. And now even though he took a backseat, took two backseats, right? CJ is the third, probably the third, fourth option on that team when you really think about it. So for him to be able to still to be ready when his number's called, for him to still be in attack mode when, when Atlanta is down, and for him to still— he kept playing. I think CJ, the fact that he kept playing throughout that course of the game, towards the end of the game in the fourth quarter, that leadership allowed Jalen and everybody else to feed off of, to feed off of that energy.

Yeah.

And CJ's a closer. He's been a closer his, you know, most of his career. People forget about, have short memory about him in Portland and what he's been doing in Portland with Dame. And now this is, this is a moment where he's bringing his, his veteran leadership and, and, and the fact that he can close games. And I think that's what Atlanta has been missing. But overall, I think the Knicks win the series. I just think the Knicks wear them down towards the end of the series.

Yeah. Have you thought about the possibility of an All-Melo final? The Nuggets, the Knicks.

So you know what's crazy? I said this early in the season, like early when I first was on NBC, and I say— they asked me like prediction, and I hate predictions. I was like, man, you know what, this year feels like it could be Denver-Nicks.

You know, think about it.

Yeah, yeah.

If we— if— listen, if we get— listen, if we get that, then the universe have been listening to me.

Right.

But it's also mean. It's also like, who, which side are you gonna be on? Because you have, you're, you're gonna make one fan base very upset at you.

Mm-hmm.

No, I, I think both fan bases know where I stand at with them. Right. So it's a win-win for me either way.

Yeah. I mean, you could also, I mean, you have a lot of the teams in the West. You could also just have the Thunder. It's not, it's not as impactful as Denver, New York, but the Thunder, New York could be the, the all-mellow final too.

No, no, no. I, again, I was being biased.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm just saying, you know, I was just being biased saying Knicks, Nuggets, you know.

I like that. Yeah, I mean, me too.

It's a possibility is what— it's a, it's a big possibility. But again, you still have to go through— I don't think nobody's in the West is, is built right now to compete with, with OKC.

Yeah. What about, uh, the Celtics losing Game 2 at home to the Sixers. It feels like in the last few years the Celtics have had a couple of these playoff games where their threes are just not— they're not hitting their threes and they're vulnerable to these type of games. Is there any cause of concern, especially if Joel Embiid can get back in this series?

It's no cause of concern. I, I think Philly, Philly is tough. Like, Philly is tough. They, they play relentless. They play fast. They got a fast pace. You know, Tyrese Maxey is leading those guys. Paul George coming back and doing what he's doing and bringing that, and Vijay having a breakout game in Game 2. I don't think they expected Vijay to have that breakout game in Game 2 because a lot of times even when Boston is shooting bad like that, they still find ways to win basketball games. But when you have somebody like a wild card like a Vijay who's coming in there and doing what he, what he did in Game 2, then now it makes you take a step back and reformat everything that you've been thinking because you have to put him into a higher level on the scouting report going into Game 3. Yeah.

And Andre Drummond has been really good. Some meaningful minutes, minutes from him.

Well, you need rebounding. Andre Drummond has been a double-double machine since he came in this league. He's been that since, since high school. So, you know, again, we, we have short memory on a lot of these, on a lot of these players' careers, but Drummond been doing this forever. He's never, he's always been known for rebounding the basketball.

Mm-hmm.

It's been times where he played, you know, in his career where he was stepping out shooting a 3 too, but people would ridicule him. Why is he shooting the 3? Why is he— get down on the block and go post. And now look at him. He done expanded his game to the 3-point line. You can't leave him open in the corner anymore because he's going to make that 3. And that's another threat for Philly.

Yeah, he does everything.

Big time threat.

What about—

what about—

I think the most important player on the Knicks is Mitchell Robinson. Mitchell Robinson. I love watching Mitchell Robinson play basketball. The dude is just— he, he's physically imposes his will. I feel like he is— he could be an X-factor out of the East this year. Um, he's been playing really, really well. Do you feel like, you know, we can talk about— we can talk about the guard play, we can talk about some of the stars on that team, but I feel like in the playoffs you need a big guy that's going to take over defensively when you need him to.

So absolutely, Mitch— and I've been saying this for a while— Mitch is maybe one of the most important players on the Knicks. And he just gives you so much, especially now he's in shape, right? He got in shape, right? So he's healthy, he got in shape, which allows him to showcase what he really can do. He's a hell of a rebounder. He's a hell of a, you know, he's a— I wouldn't say he's a, like, a hell of a shot blocker, but he alters shots, right? He make you change his shot in, in the paint. He's physical. You have to guard him. You have to foul him, uh, or he's gonna dunk, he's gonna score in the paint. Um, and he fits well with that unit, with that team, with that— especially with that second unit. He fits well with, with the Knicks second unit, and he fits well with the first unit, right? But it's just now it's, you know, you have to figure out the chess game that Atlanta is going to play. If you play Mitchell Robinson, We gonna follow them, we gonna make them earn it at the free throw line.

So we gonna force you to take them out the game, right? So that's one checkbox that we— that is going towards Atlanta's side. So it's a chess game that you have to play with Mitch. And sometimes you just gotta believe in him and go like, Mitch, just go. We believe you gonna make these free throws. Listen, you may not make two of them, make one of two. Like, yeah, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

It's ways that you gotta encourage these guys, not just take them out because he can't make a free throw. Like, he's busting his ass out there and then you're gonna take him out because he can't make a free throw. So it's a, it's a balance that you have to have with that.

Yeah. Uh, I had to ask one Cuse question. Your former teammate Jerry McNamara is now the head coach. Are we feeling— first of all, does that make you— is that like a, oh shit, we are old, like he's now the head coach of Syracuse basketball? And how are we feeling about that? Like, is it— you think it's gonna— because it's You guys have been kind of in the wilderness for a little bit. Not, not a great stress.

Okay, it's been shitty.

No, you guys been dog shit. Turbo dog shit.

It's okay, it's okay. You know what, and I walk around proudly like with that because, you know, it's, it's— you have to go through shit in order to come out of shit, right? So we've, we've been through some shit and now we're starting to come up out of that shit and we have to do it the right way. And I think bringing G-Mac Syracuse, it was only right. I mean, it was other, you know, candidates. But when you talk about somebody who has won there, somebody who's coached there, somebody who is, who's a hell of a recruiter there, who brought, you know, many players, multiple players, good players to Syracuse, his trajectory in that space is high, high, high, high, right? So The timing of this happened at the right time. It was perfect for him to leave the nest, go do his thing. The timing of needing a new— trying to fill that spot and him being the perfect person to fill that spot. You couldn't go get nobody else. You're not going to get nobody who bleed orange if you cut them open. You're not going to get nobody who understands that community.

You're not going to get nobody who, who understands the fans and understand the culture and understand how to, how to communicate with the, with the community. Because Syracuse community, it's one community. It's not like you have other things going on there. It's like, this is Syracuse basketball that we're talking about. So everybody is, is on board for that. And when you have somebody who can lead that charge and who have led that charge on the court and in his end as an assistant coach, now he get a chance to lead the charge as a head coach. It's his show, it's G-Mac's show, and hopefully he's— this, this is the new, uh, 20-something year era that, that, that Jim Boeheim had.

Yeah, you should probably— I mean, bleeding orange though, that sounds like a medical condition. He might want to get that checked out. That's like chlamydia.

Somebody like G-Mac, he, he might bleed orange.

Okay, all right, all right.

Does that mean that he's bringing back the zone?

Yeah, he's got to bring back—

you got—

if you bleed orange, you play zone defense.

So I think zone defense— there's nothing wrong with zone defense, right? I just think you got to know when to play it and you got to know how to play it. And if anybody could teach the zone, it's GMAC.

Yeah, right.

So I'm not saying that he's gonna— he's gonna come out and play zone. First of all, GMAC hated the zone when we played, right? He never wanted to practice zone at all. We, you know what I mean? So it's like, I under— I know what GMAC is thinking. Like, we're pressuring the ball, we up 94 feet, we in denial, we pressure, we physical, we diving on the floor. Like, this is— this team is going to be a mimic of who he was when he played.

Yeah, there's something about the Syracuse zone where I'm like, that's a zone where when Duke plays zone, I'm like, that's cowards. Yeah, they won't play you man up. Like, yeah, but like, the Syracuse zone It's special because it's like an aggressive—

it applies pressure to you. The zone becomes like its own enemy that you have to try to defeat. But when Duke does it, it's like, yeah, okay, these pussies can't— they can't light up man-to-man.

Yeah, just man up one time.

Yeah, yeah, stop me.

It's fast.

Yeah.

Um, y'all, y'all leave Duke alone, man.

No, fuck that. Never, ever.

Why?

Uh, all right, so I got, I got one last question. By the way, uh, again, NBC DraftKings. Mel's doing it all. Uh, we love having you on, Melo. Roback question, rhoback.com, promo code TAKE, 20% off your first purchase. Q-Zips, polos, hoodies, joggers, shorts, roback.com, promo code TAKE. I'm actually gonna give my last question back to Zach. Zach, I know you have— he's done more, Melo, he's done more prep for this interview than anything in his life.

So I love it, Zach. I love it, baby.

Come on. I just want to say thank you again for your time, my man. Uh, I was curious though, you know, iso ability, hesi ability, mid-range knockdown ability. At what age did you realize you just had the most swag on the court?

You know what, if you always felt like— I always was told if you look good, you play good. If you feel good, you play good, right? So, you know, all of that is encompassing of, of playing well. You, you go on the court, you run on the court, you got this, your sneakers is right, your sleeves is right, your swag is right, you feel confident about going into that game. And the more that you build on that, that confidence just grows. So it wasn't like I was very intentional. I always want to have swag on the court. It's like I made the game so fun that the swag came with it. Like, I was happy with the game. The game was joy— was a lot of joy for me. I smiled when I scored, and it was just like it was a fun game for me. So So hopefully I answered that good question.

Yeah, good question, Zach.

Good question, Zach. You have one more, go ahead.

Uh, I was curious, I was curious, uh, if who in the league, if there is anyone, you know, on the court, maybe they're talking, talking a little, tripping you a little bit, talking a little bit, uh, trash, uh, was there anybody who'd like, they would say it to you and they just couldn't back it up? Like with, like anybody who would say something to you and you just knew deep down, like, you, you don't want to guard me, you want nothing to do with this. Like, why, like, what are you doing right now, my man?

You know, I'm—

you know, I'm Mellow, right? Was there— is there any guys you can speak to that, like, you may want to point out?

I never had— it's nobody in particular, uh, but I've had guys, you know, like, try to get it going and, you know, try to talk trash. And, you know, even guys I don't even know, it's like just young guys or guys who's, you know, trying to make a name for themselves on on a particular team. And again, man, it's those words, "You trash." Like, when you hear that, trash, like, where you come from with that? You really think I'm trash? Okay, here we go. So it's like, that's the energy. And a lot of times it'd be fun, you know, I'm not a trash talker, but if I get to that point, then you gonna feel my energy, you gonna feel my whole aura, you gonna feel everything. So No, it's not too many. No, people didn't really trash talk me. Now, some guys did, some guys did, but that was a tactic, you know, like, that was a tactic. More the older guys, like, more the guys that was older than me who played in the league before me, who was— who knew how to use the veteran tactics and who knew how to say certain things and grab you and hold you and cheat in the game.

And like, It was those guys.

Yeah, yeah. The guys that would try to make a name for themselves too. I remember Deshaun Stephenson had a legendary couple-year run. Yeah, we're like, he knew that when he was playing one-on-one against like, uh, he was trying to guard LeBron, he was like, okay, this is my time to shine. And then yeah, but I like that, I like that type of shit.

I like, I like somebody like Deshaun Stephenson because you know every single day he gonna come to play. Right? He gonna talk his shit, he gonna play, he gonna try to defend, he gonna try his best to do what he gotta do for that day. And for me as a competitor, I, I need that, I want that. I don't want you to just come and just— if I score on you, you telling me, oh, good job, good job, champ, good, good show, that's, that's a tough shot, champ. I don't want that. Like, I want you to be pissed off when I score.

Yeah, yeah.

Would you rather, uh, have Dylan Brooks as a teammate or play against Dylan Brooks?

Well, I've had an opportunity to play against Dylan Brooks, uh, kind of later, later on, um, and, and, and I was with the Knicks for a while when I played against him, but I competed against— I love his competitiveness.

Like, I—

he— what he does doesn't bother me, uh, I think is it'd be nuts sometimes. Like, you'd be like, yo, look at that, look at Brooks, look at Dylan, man, he's wild and he's bugging out. But as far as it Like, getting to you, getting to me? Nah. I would love to have him as a teammate though, because I know when I'm going to war, he's in the bunker with me. Yeah. And no matter, no matter what, he's going to be on my side as opposed to the opponent's side. So I can rock with that.

Well, you got one in Zach right here. Zach is your Dylan Brooks. Yeah. Yeah.

Yo, Zach, listen, man, we gonna mold you a little bit because, you know, Dylan be out there going crazy sometimes. Like, we don't want you doing that. Is that—

no, I'm super coachable, man. Just, just say the word.

Just let me know.

It's true.

It's true.

He is. He is. Uh, all right, well, Melo, it's always great having you on. We love, we love having you on, and, uh, we'd love to have you back anytime. And, and good luck with the rest of the playoffs calling it for NBC, and, uh, we'll talk soon.

Now, I appreciate you guys, man. Shout out to DraftKings for setting this up too, man.

Definitely.

This is, this, this is big, and, and it's playoff time, baby. So Don't be getting so crazy when anybody betting and losing this shit, you know what I mean? Like, it's just supposed to be fun, you know what I mean? Betting is supposed to be fun. Gambling is supposed to be fun. Sports betting is supposed to be fun. So agreed, get your panties out the bunch when you lose, you know what I mean? And don't be pulling up on players and shit when you lose.

That is a fact. You made the bet, it's your fault, you know? You lose a bet, it was you who hit submit, not the player's fault.

Uh, absolutely.

Thank you, Mello. Appreciate it, man.

Thank you, guys, man.

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Okay, boys, it's time. Firefest of the week. Let's do it. Hank, what do you got?

I mean, credit, credit to me for, for just for being upfront and honest on Firefest. This one's bad, but some, some— he's like a PFT impersonator Twitter account.

Okay.

Found some of my high school baseball. Like, he was looking for me.

Yeah.

And he posted a picture. Picture's bad. Chin, chin non-existent. Not, not the greatest visual. But then he followed it up when I still— I, I tried to find it myself. Me and Zach were doing some research. He followed it up with a picture from one of my Legion baseball games with the stat line, uh, Henry Lockwood was pulled after giving up 8 runs in the first inning. His final stat line was 1 1/3 of an inning, 7-hit, 8-earned as his ERA moves to 21.76 on the season.

Oh no, I don't like—

I definitely like, I'm not saying I was a great pitcher and I, there's definitely some, I can remember a couple outings where I got shelled, but I don't know that they put that in the newspaper. Yeah, you, you had such a mean stat line and I tried to find it on my own. I was like, I gotta see, like, I'm not saying it's not true because I'm— it, it could be, but like The way the stat line is, it's so mean.

That would be crazy if he just made it up. I think he might have like a LexisNexis account. I think it might be a Hank troll with a LexisNexis account so we can look up like anything about you.

And listen, whatever, dude. Not one inning.

One point. Oh, did you get an out?

Yeah.

One.

All right.

So that counts as an out. And you just hadn't grown into your face yet.

You know what, Hank? You know, you got to do with any of these situations, man in the arena.

Okay, man in the arena. Like 15 years ago.

Yeah, man in the arena.

I was like that, but my Fyre Fest was like, I was like upset about how bad I was 15 years ago. And I was like, that—

okay.

Yeah, it's like, goddamn it, fucking brain tree.

And then I think there was one guy in Major League Baseball that went out that night and he had your exact same stat that line because I got, I got tagged in it too. So that night after he posted that, they're like, he put up a Hank.

Yeah. Oh man, that's so funny.

It's like a trillion.

It's the baseball version. You look good, dude. Lefties always look good on the mound.

Yeah. And then you also dropped, uh, Max's, I think, college. Yeah. What is that?

Oh, Max is a fucking beast, dude.

That picture, people were really upset about my, my height and weight.

6'1", 235.

Dude, Max, so I've seen that picture of you playing first at Hofstra. You look awesome in that picture. Yeah, well, I, I am a little confused. I am a little confused though. I, I don't— the jersey, the, the pinstripe pants but not, not top.

No, those jerseys are sick, dude.

They are.

I would like one of you.

Can I—

can we get one of these jerseys?

The Hofstra ones?

Yeah, these striped jerseys, a Dolente Hofstra jersey.

Oh yeah, man, we should actually just— we should see if we could just make and just have it say, like, imagine, imagine Lollapalooza this year. Just a bunch of fucking bros walking around with the Hofstra.

That would be sick.

All the Maxes.

Yeah, sick.

I just got a good idea. I just got a good idea for the bachelor party, fellas.

Oh, one thing that pissed me off. There was a lot I saw that I also saw this. People were upset that I was listed at 235. Fair. I haven't been 235 probably since the 8th grade. Um, but people are pissed about me saying 6'1". I'm like pretty close to 6'1".

Listen, I also like— same, like, you know, we, we, uh, when PFT, we talk about his height and like, you know, you can round up a little. Guys over 200, you can round down a little bit. Like, I always say I'm like 235, 240. I'm walking around more like 250. That's okay, that's in the ballpark.

I think if you're 250, you can, you can say 235. If you're 275, you can say 250. There's like a 5-pound leeway here and there.

It's essentially like, what would be the weight if you took a big shit and didn't eat for a day? What would that weight be?

It's like, can you remember recently being this weight at some point? And then like, that's what you put down. Like, I stepped one time up to a doctor's office that had one of the measurement things and it put me at 5'9.5". Yeah, that was the best day of my life.

And it also—

and then I walked around for a year being like, I'm actually 5'10".

Yeah, it's the, it's the trick of like, all right, so if I step on a scale fully clothed with my wallet and my iPhone in my pocket and my car keys, whatever that weight is, minus 25. No, you can, but you can also try to get that 25 pounds of clothes.

Yeah, I've done that before. It's like I was wearing jeans, so that's like an additional 12 pounds.

Yeah, that was a good Firefest.

Yeah.

Credit to you though for owning it big time. Do you have any more stat lines from that? That summer that might come out eventually? Because that would be kind of embarrassing if later on—

No, I mean, there's definitely like, we were good, we were a good Legion team. Like, we, we made it to the like state. I think we finished like 8th in the state or something. Like, we, we had, we had a decent run. I was like the 3rd pitcher. But yeah, that one, there was one game I definitely got shelled, but the, the one, one-third of an inning and the ERA going to 21.7, that's just like math. That's like Paul Skeens.

Yeah, yeah, it happens all the time.

Like, on pace for Paul Skeen's first game, like, his ERA just was a bajillion. Yeah, so it was probably just the first early in the season.

Yeah, like, dude, ERAs get fucked up early in the season. What do you do? It's like, it's like someone, you know, a week into the season batting like.105. Oh, okay, they're— oh, they have one hit out of 20 at bat. Okay, yeah, that's fine. That would be fine.

Lindor is going to get plenty of home runs this year.

Two hits out of 20. No. Yeah, yeah, two hits out of 20. I do my math right.

Okay, PFT, pretty good week, pretty exciting week. This is kind of a group Fyre Fest, a shared Fyre Fest, but we've, we've been under the deadline this week writing the Part of My Take book. And boy, I'll tell you, like, writing a book on deadline is not— it's not fun.

No, brings you back to college. Oh my God, the procrastination that I was going through was insane.

A lot of us, a lot of assignments, like, we get— we've had like these specific big topics that have been broken up depending on who we want to write each section. And then we go home and we have to like do some research too to figure out the dates and exactly what happened at these times. And it's been— part of it's been a lot of fun, like taking like a trip down memory lane and thinking about what happened, like for example, during the whole, uh, Barstool Van Talk saga, and, and maybe coming up with some stories that people haven't heard before. That's been fun. Uh, and there have been some other parts that are like kind of cool, but it's been, it's been a lot of work. It's been— I think it's safe to say that when we announced that we were writing a book, that was the best part of writing the book.

Yeah. Yeah, it was like, so what we— I think we've talked about this, but we have a ghostwriter who's done a phenomenal job. He got a ton of really cool interviews with a bunch of the guys that have been important to us. And we went and read the draft and we're like, here's the problem. PFT and I have very distinct voices, writing voices, speaking voices, that if you read the book, you'll notice right away that we didn't write it. So we're like, all right, let's let's just start from scratch on that part. And we rewrote it. And it was— yeah, I just, I kept on doing the move where every time I had to write, which was pretty much every night for the last 3 weeks, I'd be like, well, before I write, I have to eat some ice cream. Like, I got to get my energy up. So I've just been pounding it, pounding it, Zach.

It's good penmanship.

Yeah. But all right. So this is actually a good time to say too. So the book is on preorder. Yep. And we're going to run a little contest right now from from today, Friday the 24th, through next Wednesday the 29th. And the contest is this: fans can submit, uh, what PMT means to you, like a paragraph on what PMT means to you. Zach will go through all the submissions. We're gonna pick 5 winners. They will get— they will be in the book. So they will— their, their, their, their paragraph will be in the book. You will be a published author in hopefully New York Times bestseller. But here's the catch. You have to preorder the book to, to be one of these fans who have their submission in the book. So if you haven't preordered the book, you can still do it right now. Preorder the book. It's on Amazon. You can preorder the book right now and then you can send in your submission for what PMT means to you and you might be part of the book. We wanted to get the AWLs, you know, a little chapter because you guys mean so much to us.

And we will announce the winners next Friday on the show and kind of cool. So we want, we want people, if you haven't ordered, preorder it, you can preorder it now and then you can submit it. We're going to have the link all over our socials on where you can submit. Let's get some AWO writers. And no, this is not us just trying to get the AWLs to do work for us because we have actually done a lot of work in the last 3 weeks.

Well, we also got like JJ Watt and Joe Buck to do a lot of work for us.

Yeah.

So we're good on that. But no, we, yeah, we have been writing. And it can be like what PMT means to you. It can also be like if it's an awesome roast. Yeah, they're completely acceptable.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. So I'm looking forward to what's submitted. But yeah, it's been for me instead of like eating ice cream and procrastinating. You remember that night that I was doing show prep for NFL Sunday and I took a gummy and I started doing research and I was like, by the time the gummy hits, that's when I'll stop. I'll walk away from my computer. And then I ended up doing like 2 hours of research on if Jared Stidham has a tail.

Yep.

That's kind of my process for how I wrote a lot of the chapters. But I was better, I think, about walking away before I got into like the tail mindset.

Right.

That far down.

Right.

I like the tail mindset. I think that's when you're at your best.

Yeah, I disagree. Hard disagree. But yeah, no, it has been. It's been fun. It's a lot of work, but I'm not going to complain about writing a book because like it is, it's kind of cool to like look back and think about those things. Oh, and it's just been a long time since we've had like assignments that we have.

Yeah.

No. And I think it came out out like great. So I think people are gonna really like the book. It's really fun, you know, uh, story of everything from when we met to the New York move to everything— COVID, uh, Penn, PFT, contract negotiation— everything is in that book. A lot of stuff we haven't talked about. And we also have— I, I'll say it, boys— I was reading the, uh, the ending of the book, which is we all wrote how we think the podcast is going to end. Got a little teary-eyed reading everyone's chapter. I actually did. I did. So, yeah, Zach, Zach, by the way, it was mine. Now it's more Max's and Shane's and PFT's.

I said that you actually— I can't—

I won't spoil it. No, you—

I said that you were going to find a group of fat, fat and little friends and talk about sports at a racetrack.

Yeah. No, I got a little teary-eyed because I was like, that sounds awesome. Also, Zach, we have told the editors to not edit Zach. And I, I gotta say, my guy Zach, his, his per— like, his PER for misspelled words is so off-the-charts funny. He wrote, like, for the ending of the, of the, of part of my take, I think it was maybe 5 sentences, and I think it had 25 misspelled words. I've never seen anything like it. It was so good. You misspelled 'there' twice in the same sentence.

English language, way too many there's, big cat. There's 4 of them, you know what I mean?

This, this is, this is a little, little advice because I, I don't—

there's 4 of them.

There's like, there's like 3 or 4 of them. I think there's E-I-R-E-T-H-E-R-E apostrophe Y.

And what's the 4th?

T-H—

wait, did you say very? Yeah, there, bro. This is what we're working with.

All right, so that we got T-H-E-I-R, we got T-H-E-R-E, We got T-H-E-Y apostrophe R-E. That's— I think I'm— unless I'm missing one, I think we got 3.

The T-H-E-Y-I-R, they're.

T-H-E-Y-R-E. T-H—

no, there's 3. There's 3. There's 3.

Yeah. Wait, what was the last one? I was thinking T-H-E-Y-R.

I was thinking they are. And then you do the conjunction with the apostrophe.

Nope, that's one of them.

Yeah. T-H-E-Y-I-R. You got it.

It doesn't matter.

There's a trick to it, but I just can't remember it.

I like Zach O'Brien.

On the couch.

Me too. You just, you just say, because I dealt with this a lot when I used to do the PMT Twitter, I would misspell everything. You just say you're doing an homage to PFT.

Yeah.

And listen, it's a bit— people care more about telling than they do about spelling.

Facts.

Facts.

You just say like, that's the PMT. That's the heart of PMT is spelling things wrong.

Yeah.

It's a very important part of our DNA.

When you guys read the short sentences, did we know which— like, did the there get in the way of the there?

No, no, no.

In fact, like, it adds a little bit of layers to it.

Was like one of those, those stupid tests that you see online where it's like, we've taken out a bunch of letters, but the human mind can still read this. That's essentially what all your, all your chapters were.

I'm getting—

there's enough of the— there's enough of the core letters to get what you're trying to say.

I'm getting in the letter lab tomorrow.

Oh, you're hooked on phonics?

Yeah, they got apps.

What is it? Duolingo?

Yeah.

Yeah. Duolingo. I'm getting on there.

There is a part of me. I hope that there's like old PMT fans that are like, oh, like, I haven't listened in a while, but I want to read this book. And they get to the Zach chapter and are like, who is this?

Who the fuck is this?

Yeah, that's definitely going to happen for sure.

So as I was writing one of the chapters about the people that have come and gone from part of my take over the years, I was writing about Billy Football and I got a text from Billy just out of nowhere as I was writing it to inform me, kind of like maybe a little bit of a Fyre Fest for me, actually, now that I think about it. You remember the research chemicals that Billy injected me with back in like 2022 or whenever that was?

Peppies.

Yeah. So those, those research chemicals per Billy were just approved by the FDA like 2 days ago. So Billy was early.

Billy was wrong. Just early.

Billy was like ahead of the science. He was on the bleeding edge of medical technology when he injected my arm with them. So shout out to Billy. There will be a a section on him in the book. And it was, it was kind of fun being able to sit down and write these. So I hope people like it.

All right. So my Fyre Fest, I got two, they're AWL-centric. And the first one is, so I'm doing a little construction in my house on my bathroom. And on Wednesday morning, I went and took a shower in my wife's bathroom, got changed and everything. And there's workers in the house. I come out of it. I'm fully clothed, but you know, like wet from the shower in my own bedroom. And one of the workers is like, oh, what's up, man? Love the show. I was just like, oh, cool guy though. Way to be cool. But that was a little bit of a— in my own bedroom. Yeah, it's just like, shit. Okay.

Did you take a shit?

No, I was taking a shower. So cool guy. And then the other one was the Pugs are back. Softball 1-0. PFT is on the roster this year. He wasn't there for the first game. He's working his way back off the IL. But I just forgot how much more pressure we have on us because a lot of the teams we play are also stoolies and AWLs. And it's like we just know that it's basically just showing up to every game and having a big target on your back. Like, if we lose this game, they're going to be like, we beat the fuck out of the Pucks.

Man the arena.

Yeah, man the arena. But we had a good game. Everyone played well.

Did Hank pitch?

I pitched.

OK, smart.

I pitched. There was really the only notable thing was Jack McCarthy tried, got doubled up on a, on at second base with one out on a hit to left field. Really hard to do.

That is very tough.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, it was the best. That kid came out of nowhere. It was an unbelievable play that the kid made.

Also, Memes made the lineup and, and was making the lineup and just turns to me. He's like, where do you want to hit? And I was going to, I was going to say probably like 6th or 7th. And he's just like, where do you want to hit? 9th, 10th, or 11th? I was like, okay, cool. Nice options. You know what?

No, but I mean, if you're a real seamhead like, like me, you understand that hitting last in lineup is actually the new first in line.

True.

You get a double leadoff hitter.

Well, I hit 9th out of 11, so.

Oh, really? That's not good.

Yeah.

Yeah. But we're trying to get guys on for Jared and Max.

Yeah.

They're the only two guys who really hit.

Max hit a bomb in the first inning. I felt bad to the point.

I guess the worst case scenario.

Yeah.

He just has to sprint.

Yeah.

Well, not only that, but But the rest of the game, the shift that they put on and the distance they played in the outfield— Max, I think, hit a double that was just a single in front of the right fielder because it was like they were so deep and they just respect Max's power. They had one guy on there to get tricky with it. They had one guy on the left side of the, of the diamond at one point. That's how hard it—

and I just hit it that—

to that side.

They put the mega shift on.

The mega shift was on Max.

Damn.

Yeah, it was good.

It was good to be out there with the boys. So we just hit the tone, Max.

Yeah, I can't wait to get out there. I was, I was watching the group chat yesterday and the funniest part by far was Chef Donnie hitting up the group chat and being like, okay, I got my glove and we're playing softball with no gloves.

Yeah, I was like, who's going to tell him? Yeah. Turns out Donnie's not on the team. He's just a mascot. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Okay, Zach, finish us off.

My favorite this week is it's a quick one. Had a good week, but I don't know if we need to move away from fobs and go to the apps or go back to manually cut keys because I spent 4 hours in my apartment locked in trying to find my house key yesterday. And honestly, like, it might— it may have changed me as an individual. I may get rid of all of my things. Have you guys ever tried to hire a computer programmer to get a new fob at nighttime?

Wait, wait, wait.

Let's back up for a second. I agree with you that— actually, no, I think I disagree that there are too many apps. But when you're saying that you got locked into your apartment, tell me more about that.

I was locked in because I lost my— I went— I was— I got a chicken Caesar wrap for trying to be healthy. I felt good about that choice for dinner. I was like, let me go grab that. Yeah, just go to go downstairs. Keys not in the key spot.

I got a little dish.

And then for 4 hours I'm just tearing apart my apartment looking for a key and like—

So wait, but you were locked into your apartment? You couldn't leave your apartment?

If I go out, It automatically— there's no coming back.

It automatically locks.

So I'm just locked in.

Okay.

Propping the door.

I don't have that kind of trust in the world. I maybe get food.

I don't think he thought about that.

Maybe I could have got away with that.

But just propping the door every time to go pick up food in your lobby.

You got to think if there's, if there's 200 apartments, 200 strangers, there's no way.

I think I need—

I think this is the first thing.

Okay.

So Zach is thinking about this.

No way.

What?

What?

Because you think about the hypothetical.

You prop your door. If I prop my door down, you go down, I shoot, pick up your wrap, and then you come up and what has happened?

I go down and hit the elevator. I'm going to— there's no windows in the elevator. I have no idea what's going on in my apartment. You go all the way down, you go to the front office, you get your dinner, you come back up the elevator. Do people are moving and shaking all day.

What has happened though?

Like worst case scenario, what has happened in the, in the 5, 10 minutes it takes me to get downstairs? There could be 4 other delivery guys going to drop burritos off at the neighbor's house. Like a male, a UPS guy, a scorned neighbor, a scorned, a bad boyfriend on the other side of the apartment. There's no way to know who could get in the apartment and just like take all your—

take all the things you hold near and dear to your heart in 5 minutes.

Dude, I think that could happen in 30 seconds. Yes. So 5 minutes could be— you could get hit with a double crime. There's like a second, you know, I'm—

we got—

we got—

I'm out, I'm propping the door.

We got video cameras though, right?

Interior?

Yeah.

This also implied that people were just waiting, you know, sitting outside your door waiting for you to prop it open.

And then is there any way to disable the automatic lock feature?

He doesn't have an automatic lock feature. I realized, as I said, that he doesn't, because when Zach first was on the show, there was a couple times where he would come up to me in a panic and be like, do you mind if I go home? I can't remember if I locked my door. I need to go make sure I locked my door. He would go home and every time he would lock his door, his door was already locked. His solution to that is now every single time Zach leaves his apartment, he takes a video of himself locking the door so that he doesn't remember about if his door is locked or not locked.

Oh, so, so that does happen to me too. I always am like, oh fuck, did I close my garage?

So it is automatic. But my head is like, I don't—

if I don't—

it doesn't shut off. It doesn't shut all the way by itself. You got to pull it. If I played you one of these videos, it's really—

pull it.

Yeah.

Can you— can I see one of these videos, please?

He has thousands or hundreds of— actually hundreds of—

let me see a video, please.

I guess this is this morning, like proof of lock. You're like, this is— see, how often do you check your locks?

Okay.

Like over the course of a day, Zach.

Okay, I'm going to play this video real quick. All right, here we go. Yup, that's locked. He double-checked every day, every single day.

Why don't you record this every day? How often would you go back and, and you'd be sitting there and you like look to your videos to verify? Do you also like forget every day and you check?

No, it just— anytime it pops up in my head, I just know I have the reassurance because you know how it goes. Like, once you start thinking about the door might be unlocked, right? I guess only thing you're thinking of.

Okay, so there— it sounds like there probably could have been a way around you getting locked out of your apartment for the salad.

So I call— I called the lady and I'm like, hey, look, things aren't going good in here. Keys not in here. What can we do?

You need to get a keychain with an AirTag.

That's what my mom said.

Yes, your mom is correct. Yes, she's smart lady.

But we didn't have that. And but imagine if— but for people who didn't have AirTags, but now they know they should have AirTags, you can hire a locksmith late at night. If you— if we go back to acoustic keys, you can't hire a computer programmer.

You know, do you mean acoustic analog keys?

Yes. Like old school, like traditional.

Yeah.

Hard metal keys. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm down to go back to hardware. I do think there's way too many apps out there. Yeah, I can't— I downloaded an app for the treadmill the other day for the walking pad that we had in the office.

At least app, you know, it's on there or hard key. You know, you can use it. You can't get a tech guy at like 1, 2 in the morning to reprogram fob.

I mean, this should probably teach you a valuable lesson. Like, don't order any more salads.

That's a good— that's a great point.

Yeah. This would never happen if you're just going out for ice cream.

You got this, Zach.

That is true.

Because I think I put the fob in your wallet.

I got like a—

does that—

but then you have to take the keychain off. Then you're— then you're—

no, no, no keychain, fob in the wallet. Wallet.

But then you're risking losing the tiniest of fob.

It's in your wallet, but then you're at—

but if you lose that, then you're out of all the pay, pay with items and key.

I think you just prop the door.

That's a crazy— yeah, just keep it open all the time.

I would prop it. I would probably—

you guys are door prop guys?

No, in an event like this, yes.

You're gone for 45 seconds.

Oh dude, crime can strike whenever, Max.

Yeah, there's no way to He's right about that. All right, good show.

You have nothing. You have nothing in your apartment.

That's not true.

That's hate.

Yeah, you told me that.

We talked about it.

I might not have the most valuable things, but, you know, some things you can't replace.

Take your hate elsewhere, man.

Take the hate out of here. All right, good show, boys. Numbers. 11, 24, 56, 20, 77, 40.

Did you say 20?

No, no, I didn't hear it.

We didn't hear it.

We didn't hear it.

We didn't hear it.

We didn't hear any of you guys. We didn't hear literally anything.

33, 41, 42, 42.

Anyone?

Reverse. Let's do one more, one more. Same number, 77.

Sick.

Oh, Jacob, so close. And you picked 42 the other day. Damn. 90. 90.

Happy birthday to Joe Buck. Oh, on Saturday. Oh, not on Friday, but it's the weekend. So I'm going to wish— I'm going to wish Joe Buck a very happy birthday. Happy birthday, Joe Buck.

Mames, happy birthday, Carlos Beltran, future manager of the Mets.

Okay.

Love you guys.

02:10:46

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