Transcript of EZRA FRECH: "I Was Put on This Earth to Change the Way We See Disability"

Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is two-time Paralympic gold medalist and world record holder Ezra Freck. He's one of the most exciting young athletes in the world, a powerful voice for disability representation, and he's already changing the way people see what's possible. Now you can see him taking on a completely new challenge on Dancing With the Stars, if you haven't been watching already. Ezra Freck, welcome to On Purpose.

Wow, thank you for having me.

I am so inspired by you. Honestly, when I was preparing for this interview, I was looking at what you've achieved in your life, how you move through the world. I've watched your interviews, how you respond and react, and not only are you so impressive with what you pull off, you're so gracious and grateful and kind, and I'm like, wow, this guy's, you know.

They can make me blush, man.

It's great life, right, man?

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. It is a real honor to be here.

We're going to get into some really deep stuff, but I wanted to ask you, like, what is more pressure: competing in the Paralympics or doing the cha-cha in front of millions of people on Dancing With the Stars?

Honestly, my philosophy on pressure is that it doesn't even exist. I feel like pressure is what is Matthew McConaughey saying in the Wolf's Watch? It's a wazzie, it's a woozy, it's a fairy dust. It never existed. It's almost like me admitting that there's pressure then convinces myself that that's a negative situation to be in, when in reality I don't even see it as pressure. I just see it as real, beautiful opportunity. Competing at the Paralympics, that's competing in track and field. I grew up doing that. Of course, that's more comfortable. Dancing on live TV is way out of my comfort zone.

Yeah. Well, you see that. You're crushing it on Dancing With the Stars.

Thank you. Have you been watching?

Yeah, I've been. I've been. It's amazing to watch you.

Have you been voting for me?

I haven't yet. I need to stop voting for you. I'm always catching up on the highlights, so I'm always watching after the fact. But not that you need my vote. I think you're doing just fine. But I'll jump in and vote for you.

Thank you. Thank you.

But I wanted to go back to the beginning. When you were born, your parents were told that you were limb-deficient. And I find that fascinating that they saw that not as just information they received. They decided to make it the purpose of why you existed. Walk me—obviously you can't remember the moment you were born—but talk to me about your earliest memories of learning that you were limb-deficient.

It's a pretty crazy situation just based on the fact that they didn't know I was going to be born with a physical disability. So I was born and I had one finger on my left hand, a left leg that's curved up towards my waist. My mom tells a story. There was so many people in the delivery room. My mom packed it with family and friends, and my father started kicking people out of the room. And my mom was like, why is everyone getting kicked out of the room? And it's because he was freaking out. You know what to do? This child looked different. And of course they didn't know if there was anything else wrong, and they had to run a bunch of tests.

I was lucky enough to just meet your mom too. She's here with you. She has the most wonderful energy.

Thank you.

I was honored, actually, to meet her, because when I was studying your story, obviously she's been such a pivotal person in your life. And just seeing the relationship you both have, you know, after all these years, from that moment when she made that commitment and oriented your purpose in that way, and now you're, like, living and breathing it.

Well, it's because of them, right? It's because of my parents. I can't imagine how scary it is to have your first child be born with a limb difference. You don't know what to expect. You don't know what life is going to look like for this child. And especially at a time where you don't see a lot of disability representation. You're not turning on the TV screen at the time and seeing so many people with disabilities. And so what to expect from life when you have a child with a disability, that can be daunting, and that can be scary. So I am beyond grateful for the way that they raised me.

I had one finger on my left hand, and I had a lower left leg that was curved up towards my waist. And I had a surgery at about 3 years old, which was a whole—it's for almost for a whole nother time. Like, to go through the decision-making that my parents had to figure out of, we're going to amputate our child's leg and then take the big toe that was formerly from the foot and put it onto my left hand in order to create more mobility. Because if I were to grow and that leg would continue to grow upwards, I would have very little mobility.

You remember that?

Because I remember the feelings associated with finally this piece of my body that we just attached being connected. I can't even imagine having a child and having to make a decision like that. I have so much respect for my parents and the way they handled the process.

Yeah. I mean, so much respect to your parents. And also, it must have been an incredible doctor who had.

Yes. Dr. Shadow of the Mind, incredible doctor, Boston Children's Hospital, Dr. Upton. I remember when we walked into his office. It's crazy. I remember this, actually. I was really young, but I have flashes of memory. We walked into his office, and on the wall of his office, he just has all of the different hands that he's done. All these different hands. All look different, all unique, but surgeries that he's done to make people's hands functional in so many different ways. And I remember seeing that and being like, oh, I'm in good hands.

Was that beautiful to see as well? Was there something about that? Like, that visual, even the way you described it, I was like, wow.

For sure. Molds of all of the surgeries that he's done, the hands that he's done, it's, A, it goes to show you how beautiful and different each situation is, but then also that this amazing doctor really knew what he was doing. I was in the best hands and worked out great. This is the hand. This is the finger. We added this finger, and then now, 18 years later, I'm having to hold my partner's hand on Dancing With the Stars. If I didn't have that finger, it would be much harder.

That's incredible. That's incredible. It shows us also the power of, like, not knowing how decisions impact us decades later and how great choices, great decisions, love, purpose, belief in you.

Intuition even, like, my parents were following their intuition and trusting that they were making the right decision. And it was absolutely, unequivocally the right decision.

There's so much to discuss of where you are now, but I want to keep focusing on where it started out, because when you talk about it, I get—it's like just being in your presence, I get pumped up. Like, I'm like, you know, you have such a contagious, like, enthusiastic energy that comes across, but I'm like also trying to remember that what you've been through is extremely difficult. And even though you wear it with so much confidence and greatness, which I admire and aspire, it's like just remembering that it wasn't always easy. And there were difficult moments for your parents, for yourself.

I've never heard the letter.

You've never heard the letter?

I've never heard the letter. I've heard about the letter, but I've never heard what was in the letter.

No way. I'll send you the full version because it's long, but I'll read you a part of it if that's okay.

I would love to hear. I would love to hear.

We're not wasting our energy blaming anybody or anything. We believe that every child is unique and has obstacles to overcome, whether they are physical, emotional, or intellectual. Ezra's happens to be physical. Our goal is to help Ezra to grow up and meet his potential, whatever that may be. Our charge is to ensure he feels strong and self-confident and to help him confront and adapt to his differences and eventually feel like any other child. Don't set limits for him.

Damn.

I can't believe you never heard that before.

I've never heard that. Dang. They were so proactive sending letters like that, cultivating the energy, the environment that I was in. That's so crazy to hear. I've heard about this letter, but hearing it hits totally different. And I can just imagine wide-eyed parents with a kid with a disability putting him in a new environment. Hope I lived up to those words.

I think you're doing beyond.

We didn't set limits.

I think you're doing beyond.

That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. I'd never heard that before.

I mean, your parents will have the full version, but I'll send it to you anyway. I have the full version that I read when I was preparing, and that was an excerpt that I just felt was super, super powerful. I didn't know you hadn't heard it, but it's also so empowering. Like, it's the way it's written. And if I was a parent receiving that, I'd be like, wow, like, I should parent like this regardless. Like, you know, regardless of any challenge that my kid's going through, I wish.

They filled me with confidence as a young kid. Filled me with confidence.

What did they say when you were young? What did they do to do that?

I mean, growing up with a disability, not easy. Everywhere you go in public, people staring, pointing fingers, whispering. I felt like a zoo animal in many ways. I felt ostracized from society every time I went in public. People pointing and whispering. That's hard, especially in those formative years. I remember my mother always told me, she said, you walk into every room with your chin up, your chest out, you look everyone in the eye, you let them know you've arrived. My disability was never the thing that held me back growing up because that's the way my parents wanted it to be.

It's really beautiful how you honor your parents, but you had to do that too. And I think a lot of people's parents tell them to do things that are good for them, but most of us don't listen. And so the fact that you were able to actually do that, was there ever a time when you were trying to embody that mindset, walk in with your chest big, chin up, trying to be positive, but the finger pointing, the whispering, or anything even worse got really hard? Like, was there ever a moment where you were like, this is the worst thing ever?

There were so many moments like that. And especially when I was younger, I would ask my parents, why was I born like this? Why am I the only kid in my school with one leg? Why am I the only kid in my school that looks different? There was a lot of moments like that. And I just remember a point where I was thinking, it was almost like a switch had flipped. I was just, I thought, there's literally nothing I can do. There's no way for me to change my situation.

Why do you think that was for you? What was it about your hand that.

It's probably because my prosthetic, I felt looked cool.

Right, right, right.

And I didn't feel like my left hand did. And it was shorter and looked so different. And also it comes from reactions, like moments even with girls as a young kid where this is so random, but I can't believe I'm thinking of this. But like one time I put my arm around some girl that I liked, and she went and told everybody that, like, Ezra put his creepy hand around me. Like little things like that when you're young in middle school that change your perception of yourself in some ways.

Yeah, I'm sorry you had to go through that. I mean, yeah, that's the worst thing.

I've never spoken about it. You know, this is like therapy. I've never even said that story ever in my life. But it's those little things that you don't think about that when we have a conversation like this, like, oh, that happened. And that might be why I felt like this. It's crazy to, you know, piece it together backwards almost.

Now that I understand your reasoning, I'm like, it's very natural why you would think that and why it's taken longer for you to accept your hand versus your leg. I love what you said about this idea of, like, it's not like overnight. It's not like one day you wake up and all of a sudden you go, oh, I'm good with it now. Like, I get it. Like, it makes sense. Like, what were the steps in learning to accept your hand from that moment you hear such a hurtful thing from a girl that you, you know, for any of us, any guy who can relate to the fact that when you like a girl in middle school and you put your arm around and to hear that, to go from that to now being at a point when you said, because of this hand, I can dance with my partner on "Dancing With the Stars."

Every guy knows you take a risk in any way with a girl. If anything goes wrong, it hurts so much more. The capabilities to accept myself, it was baked into me from the love for my parents. I knew the pathway. I knew how to get there. I knew the path to walk down. It was about letting go and walking down that path. And part of it just comes, I think, with time. Like, in middle school, everybody's insecure. In early high school, everybody's insecure.

Yeah.

Because you have to take a risk and you have to do something that's uncomfortable. Oftentimes, it's easier to just sit in our own thoughts and sit in our insecurity as opposed to break free from that. And in this case, once again, I felt like I had the framework. It was there, and the confidence in who I was was baked into me. And this was just that final piece of the puzzle that I needed to push through and came with time, came with healing experiences with other girls, and came with me just maturing a little bit.

It's knowing that you actually had to do more uncomfortable things. It was like you go through this discomfort, and actually the only thing that could heal your feeling of it was to go into that discomfort even more.

Even more.

Even more, which is so hard to do when you're already dealing with that much stress, fear.

It's the last thing you want to do.

It's the last thing you want to do, exactly. Well said, yeah. It's the last thing you want to do. And you're saying that's the thing that worked. Ezra, for you, I mean, despite everything your mom and dad did for you, I read that mom and dad were not your first words. It was ball. So I was like, you've been talking to them.

Yeah, I loved my parents, but my first word was ball.

Yeah, exactly. I was like, when I read that, I was cracking up. I was like, especially now where I see how much you love your parents and how amazing they are, obviously, but mom and dad didn't make it. It was ball. You said something to me that really resonated before we started recording, and you were saying that, you know, actually when someone gets a disability or has a limb deficiency, sport is the last thing that they're trained to think about or that becomes a possibility for them. How did sports become such a big part of your life that young?

Society almost tells you if you have a physical disability, sports is not for you. There's no system set up for recreational sport, even high school sport, collegiate sport at the same level, anywhere near what it is for the average middle schooler or high schooler that can just go, if you're in a wheelchair, you can't just roll up to the YMCA and jump in a wheelchair basketball game. You need a specific chair, a specific game setup. There's all these barriers to entry for the community to participate in sport. And honestly, it was the way, not to go back on my parents, but it was the way my parents raised me.

It's always so uncomfortable when, you know, you realize just how unless you've had a friend with a disability or a family member, you don't actually understand.

You don't.

How much there is lack of access or what kind of mindsets or aspirations society places on a community or when you just reeled off those statistics, like, I don't think I even knew this.

Right.

And I feel terrible saying that, but I feel so uneducated saying that, but it just shows how much of a need there is for us to have these conversations and for us to talk about these things.

Absolutely. And that's why representation is so important, because not everyone is going to have a close family member that has a disability that they're able to understand their experiences. But on a macro level, how do you change society? You change society by touching culture. And there's moments in sport where sport can be that catalyst, can be the thing that transcends, touches culture, changes the way we think about something. Like Billie Jean King beating Bobby Riggs, changing the way the world views women's tennis.

I'm so excited to see what you go on to do from this standpoint, from sports, entertainment, being an advocate for the space. Why do you think it is, though? Like, when you put it that way, that it's the last frontier, it is, it's such a large minority, you know, and it's not had that representation. What do you think that is? Like, what's happening?

Honestly, I think it's because people are afraid of it. Disability is taboo. People don't know what to say. They don't want to say the wrong thing. They end up not saying anything at all. And that is so counterproductive. We need the conversation. We need people to approach it with good intentions. Maybe they get the language 5% off, but if they're approaching it with good intentions and we're sparking conversation, that's so important. And for some reason, disability is seen as a super negative thing.

I was about to say, if anyone wants to see anything, like, you just got to watch one of your high jump videos. And I'm like, all of a sudden, you're like, yeah.

But I appreciate that. And that's the thing is, like, social media is a very, it can be superficial, of course, but the way I think of social media and anything that we pursue or go after is, like, every like, every view, every comment, that's someone where disability is hopefully slightly more normalized in their eyes. And if you do that enough on a large enough scale, that's real change.

I was going to ask you two things, because I really want to get into the Paralympics in a moment and more on "Dancing With the Stars," but two things that I wanted to ask you about there. You said you were a huge Lakers fan, and I heard that you're a big Gasol fan. And I think you even met him when you were like, wow, really young.

Pau Gasol.

On "Good Morning America," was it?

My brother.

Yeah.

I was a die-hard Lakers fan growing up, like you said. And at four years old, "Good Morning America" did this segment on me because I would talk to schools and talk about disability when I was a young kid. And they surprised me with tickets to a Laker game and then surprised me backstage. I got to meet Pau, who's my hero, my idol. I used to make my mom draw a mascara beard so I could go to preschool because I loved Pau that much. And he was at the height of his career.

That's incredible. What have you learned from him over the years, or what's the one thing that he's taught you over the years that stands out, that's really resonated with you?

He is the perfect example of using your platform in the right way. He uses the sport to create real impact. There aren't that many athletes at that level that have created such a life of impact and purpose like Pau. Of course, mine is in a different lane for the disabled community, but the way that he approaches business, the way that he approaches his career, the way that he approaches his impact strategy is so thoughtful and so aligned with him that I hope to embody that energy and hopefully literally have a similar type of career in that sense and emulate the way he's been able to create such a positive impact.

Just as a human being. And that's very special.

As well, have there been any athletes that you look up to that have ever reached out to you?

Well, one of them, who's a friend of yours, I think, Novak Djokovic, actually. We've exchanged messages a few times. We met at an event, and he is a fantastic human being. And I lost my world title last year, and I was really bummed, and it was sort of a difficult moment for me, as you have in sport. And he sent a really sweet message to me, and it honestly made me feel a lot better and put things in perspective and just reminded me of all of the stuff that he's had to go through throughout his career and the type of human being and athlete and purpose-driven individual that he is.

Was there anything that he said specifically that resonated?

It was just something along the lines of like, you know, keep your head up, champ. These things happen. There's always highs and lows. I know you'll bounce back stronger than ever. You're an amazing... Well, like, it was one of those, and I was just like, man.

That's really meaningful.

I was like, if Novak thinks that, I mean, I can think that of myself. Sometimes other people's confidence, especially someone like him, can remind you who you are and give you that fuel. And that's what it did for me.

Was there a reason you think you're... Because I imagine your approach and everything was similar. Was there a reason why you think you lost your world title?

We released a documentary, actually, on Peacock. It's called "Adaptive." It was three episodes, 45 minutes, still on the platform. So if anyone wants to know me, know me really well, you can watch that. But we released that right before the World Championships, and I had to go on like a whole press tour. So training was a little bit more inconsistent. And of course, that's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to get to release a documentary. I had to go for it. And I ended up getting injured throughout that process because I wasn't able to have that same type of recovery and rest that I usually have.

When I hear you speak, you're so confident. I wanted to ask you, like, how do you define confidence?

I define confidence as a relationship with yourself. It comes and goes at times, but at the core of it, it's my relationship with myself. If I say something, my word, I must stick to it. And if I say I'm going to sleep at this time, I sleep at that time. If I say I'm going to do something, I do it. I really value the power of the spoken word. I had a dear friend of mine tell me that words are spells.

Are you actually doing those things that you just said?

Yeah, I am doing those things.

So no sugar or alcohol until after the 2028 Paralympics.

Yeah. So usually I would do no sugar during the track season, and then after season, I would eat like crazy. And after the last Paralympics, I said, I have to one-up myself. I have to do something even greater. I have a hometown Paralympics coming. I was like, all right, no added sugar for the next four years. I'll have natural sugar, just fruit and honey and stuff.

Yeah, of course.

But I won't have any junk food, any cake, any candies that have added sugar. And I know it doesn't make a difference. If I have one piece of candy, my grandma's always like, one bite of the cake, please. I'm like, Mimi, you know me. I can't. If I have one, it makes the second one easier. I've broken that relationship with myself. And granted, everybody's different. Not everyone's confidence should come from them not eating sugar for four years, but rather that confidence should come from what you commit to yourself and making sure you follow through on that.

Yeah, you learn to trust yourself.

You learn to trust yourself. Absolutely.

Yeah. You're making me feel really bad now because I just, I do six days of no refined sugar a week.

Okay.

But I eat on one day a week.

But here's the thing.

Four years.

But here's the thing. Some people need that in moderation.

Thanks for making me feel better.

No, no. It's true though. It's true though. Everyone's wired differently. Some people need that. And granted, if your career was directly dependent on you not eating sugar, you would make that sacrifice. As an athlete, my career is partially dependent on health and fitness. And so me not eating sugar impacts my career. If it was the same for you, I guarantee you'd be in the same boat. You'd be like, all right, no sugar at all.

I love your mindset though. Like when I hear you speak and it's what you'd expect, you have this elite athlete mindset. I want you to speak to me about that mindset and what it's taken to build that trust in yourself and that commitment to your craft. Because you have it, you're 21 years old, you've already achieved so much, but I can feel it. Like even just, you know, being in front of you. You can always tell when you're in front of an elite athlete. It's a different energy. I've had the fortune of sitting with so many, and when you're in the presence of one, you can tell. It's just, it's a different ball game.

I think it's a combination of a couple things. I think my disability has always given me a chip on my shoulder. I was always doubted. I was always underestimated everywhere I went. And that fueled me to want to prove people wrong. So growing up, we would be playing basketball games, and the coach of the other team would be like, all right, guys, take it easy on this kid for the first five minutes of the game. And then after I've scored a bunch of baskets, he's like, oh, no, no, play defense now.

Talk to me about that 11-year-old you watching the Paralympics, making that decision, I'm going to qualify, to qualifying for your first Paralympics. Walk me through the training, what that required, and then what that feeling was like to qualify for your first ever Paralympics.

I think I had to improve two feet or something in the high jump. I had to improve, I calculated roughly.

And that's a lot, right?

That's a lot. Two feet is a lot. I calculated I needed to roughly improve that much if I wanted even a chance. I was like, I'm going to do it. And I actually remember this. I looked at my mom and I was like, Mom, do you think I can do this? And she was in the doorway. And she looked at me. She was like, hell yeah. And I was like, I can do this. And then sure enough, we found a great coach. We started to piece together a team. I mean, I literally, even before you found the coach, I was watching YouTube videos all day, running, jumping in the backyard.

Is that a fault or a strength when it comes to what you do?

Up for interpretation. My mother would say it's a fault, but I would say it's a strength.

Yeah. I think as an athlete, it's a strength.

As an athlete, it's a strength. I'm never satisfied. I can live in gratitude and also really be because I always am trying to be at a place of gratitude, but I can be grateful and also really ambitious and hungry for more always. So you're right. It depends on who you ask.

Yeah. But for the record, I agree with your mom. She's got everything right. So I'm not about to debate with your mom. She's nailed it. So who might have said anything to her? I've been fortunate enough to watch certain sports in the Paralympics previously. I've watched you a ton before you're coming on the show. And I'm blown away by what's possible. It is remarkable to watch. But for anyone who doesn't know about the Paralympics, what are the key differences between the Olympics and the Paralympics?

Absolutely. Because by the way, people just are naturally confused. I get called an Olympian all the time. And they don't mean it in a negative way, but I'm not. I'm a Paralympian. And so the main differences are this. Paralympics is the highest level sporting competition on the planet for people with physical disabilities. It happens two weeks after the Olympics. It happens in the same cities, same venues, same organizing committees. Granted, the IPC, the International Paralympic Committee, and the IOC, International Olympic Committee, they're sister organizations.

Yeah. Watching that video of you win, go watch it online, but it's phenomenal to see you pick up speed. Talk to us about that idea, because I think for those of us who don't understand what it feels like to have a prosthetic leg, you have to pick up speed in a different way.

You're absolutely right. So with a running blade, the start is the hardest part of the race because you're unable to hit the right positions and the blade hasn't really kicked in. And so only at about 30, 40, maybe even 50 meters are you really hitting top speed. That's why the Paralympic times are slower compared to the able-bodied times. But really, if you took the top speed of my race versus the top speed of an able-bodied sprinter, it wouldn't be as different compared to the times that we're running.

Wow.

Of course, still slower because we're missing a leg, but less difference. Yeah, in the race in Paris, I mean, there's so much to go into just around that, the whole experience in Paris as a whole. But yeah, that race was crazy. And you watch, everyone picks up speed. Everyone in the race is building.

Oh, you pick up speed. You pick up speed.

Just a little, a smidge more speed, but it was a crazy race.

Yeah, it's insane. We'll get to that. I want to go back to Tokyo. You come out fifth, right, in Tokyo, and you take a picture of the athletes on the podium and you make it your phone wallpaper and you're like, never again.

Yeah.

Walk me through that decision, Mike.

I'm an ultra competitor if you can't tell.

I love it, dude. I love it.

So we got that extra year for the Tokyo Games. And in my head, I thought, I can't have the same goal. I got an extra year. I have to medal. That was the goal. And honestly, I came into the Tokyo Games in a pretty good position to make that happen. It was definitely possible. Unlikely, but it was possible. And that's all I needed.

And you're super young, obviously, as well.

I was 16. I was super young. All the other guys were 25, older, grown men. This is what they do for a living. I got really close to the podium. The bronze medal bar, I was soaring over the bar and my blade skims the top of the bar. I land on the mat. I jump up. I didn't even feel it. I thought I cleared the bar. I jump up to celebrate and the bar was down. And I was just devastated. Devastated. Felt like I let my family, my friends, felt like I let my country. It was painful.

I love it too.

I love that quote.

It's so good.

It's so good.

It's so good.

Oh, it just took me back.

It just gives you chills every time I hear it.

So that his place shall never be. That was the line that hit me. At least if he fails, he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. And as I read that again, I was thinking, I dared greatly. I'm proud of that. I put my all into this. I left no stone unturned. At least my place isn't with those cold and timid souls who never took a risk, who never put themselves out there, who never went after their dreams. I did.

Talk to me about just that split moment in time where.

That's what makes it beautiful. That's what makes sport beautiful. That's what makes the Paralympics, the Olympics special, is how finite it is. We trained four years. That 100 meter race is 11 seconds. I get one shot. That's what makes those moments so special. I understand the beauty in failure. I understand and appreciate the beauty in those moments that are so scarce and rare, and it makes us appreciate them so much more.

In the buildup to the Paris Games, you were so focused on self-talk, manifestation, meditation, and we're hearing parts of your self-talk throughout this whole interview. I feel like there's moments where you lock in. I'm like, oh, this is how he talks to himself.

Yes.

Talk to me about what role each of those plays. So we'll start, let's start with manifestation. What does manifestation mean to you? How do you manifest?

Manifestation is really important to me. I think that nobody stumbles upon greatness. You believe you're capable of that thing first, and then you become it. My manifestation, once again, it came from that confidence building that my parents instilled in me, but I take it really seriously. For years and years in the lead-up to the Paris Paralympics, I vocalized, I was going to win the gold. And I had a very, very detailed, and not to jump the gun, but my manifestation and meditation are kind of connected.

On social media, I actually did a 100-day countdown where I made a video every single day for 100 days saying, today is day X out of 100 until I win Paralympic gold. Everyone told me I was crazy. Everybody said, you're putting too much pressure on yourself. Everyone was so concerned. What if he doesn't do it? But there was no fear. I will never not vocalize my goals out of fear of not accomplishing them. I was so open because I knew what I was willing to do to get there and how much I was willing to sacrifice.

Yeah, I love that. That's one of my favorite explanations of visualization ever. Truly. Because it's a dress rehearsal.

It's a dress rehearsal.

That's what people don't realize. I think we think of visualization as this really mystical, crazy thing. And it's like, no, no, no, you're letting your body and your mind feel the experience so that when you go into it, you feel comfortable in it.

It's not foreign.

And you're right. It can be used by anyone, even when they're not an athlete, because it's like doing a dress rehearsal of you walking around on stage, doing that presentation, walking into the meeting, at the call, as you said. You can visualize what that's going to feel like. You can feel the phone in your hand. You can hear that person's voice. You can go through all of that before you step into the arena.

People underestimate how important that is. They really do. Preparing your body for something is so valuable. Why physically do we prepare our bodies so much for something, but mentally we won't prepare ourselves for something? It's the same thing. There's been studies that they've done where they've taken people and had them practice shooting free throws over a period of time, have one group actually shoot the free throw, have another group just visualize themselves making the free throw. And the difference was not that much.

Talk to me about the physical aspect too, though, because I've seen your videos of you working out, weightlifting. Talk to me about the workout schedule in getting to something like the Paralympic Games in Paris to actually go and compete, and also the recovery, because what can't you do by having a... Is it that you could push yourself too much? Could you get injured? What does that look like for you when you're lifting weights? What do you have to be careful of and things that we may not be as aware of?

Training for the Paralympics, specifically the last one, it was all in. Everything.

What does your schedule look like every week?

10 plus hours of sleep every single day, meditation, visualization, journaling, hours and hours on the track, hours in the weight room, deep tissue massage, physical therapy, hyperbaric, red light, sauna, PEMF mat. The reality is, track is not a sport like basketball where you can shoot free throws or work on certain aspects of your game for seven hours a day. I can't do that. I would destroy my body. I'm pushing my body to the limits every single rep.

That's crazy. I mean, the strength that leg must have is insane. Walk me through that because I don't think.

I've had to overcompensate.

Talk to me about what we wouldn't understand. Talk to me about what we miss. Because when I see you do it, it looks insanely impressive, but I'm not aware of just how much training thinking has gone into that moment because you've had to think about it much more deeply because of everything. From like you said, you could risk injury.

Basically, I have, I'm 21 years old. I got the leg of probably a 42-year-old just from a sense of the pounding and stress. As in growing up, and even still to this day, I'm always going to naturally favor my sound side more. I'm putting asymmetrical load on my body at all times. And so that means my right leg is definitely stronger. I've got a right thigh that's the size of two normal legs. And it's great because I have a lot of strength and that helps me and aids me on the track. But of course, I do a lot of work to be as symmetrical as I can.

I love hearing that. And it's so helpful hearing that because it just shows how much you value what you have. There's such a deep value for your body and value for what it's capable of and value for what you want it to be capable of and the beautiful dreams you have for family and everything else to come in your life. When I see you lift in the gym and you post videos online, I'm just like, wow. I'm blown away by, I'm trying to think about when you first lifted a weight in your life, was that the most uncomfortable, strange feeling in the world?

We had to do things differently, naturally, in the way I weightlift, the positions that we can hit. But I started training so young.

You got used to it.

I got used to it. And it's crazy because my coaches, the people in my life, they don't even, we think about some adaptations for the prosthetic, but it's so second nature, they don't even think about it. And even now, from a dancing perspective, everything we're doing is so foreign. But my partner, we forget that I'm trying to do this on a prosthetic. And that's sort of beautiful. It's like that we can push the boundaries in a way and that the people close to me don't think about my disability ever. And so when we're in the weight room, it's like, yeah, we take my leg off for certain things, but it's just so seamless at this point.

It's so cool. That's what I'm saying. For me watching, I'm like, that is mind over matter. That is an unbelievable mindset. That's so inspiring to watch. And as I'm hearing from you, it is mind over matter because you're completely like, I can do this. I'm going to try it. And it goes back to what your parents wrote in that letter of like, don't put your limits on him. Let him be in the pursuit of his limits. You're getting to test that.

This is why people work out. This is why people do hard things. This is why people run marathons or do triathlons or even go on the treadmill for 20 minutes on their lunch break. It's because there's something beautiful about pushing yourself to your limits. It's finding out where that limit is. I'm very grateful that I get to do this for a living.

What was that feeling like? You'd posted the video, shook the hands, manifested, visualized, and then two Paralympic golds. What was that feeling like? What was that experience like?

The best feeling in the world. But they felt different. So I was doing that 100-day countdown for the high jump. I had four days of back-to-back competition. First night, long jump. Next night, 100-meter prelims. Next night, 100-meter final. Next night, high jump final. High jump was last. My goal was to medal in all three of them. First night, I got fifth in the long jump. And I was, I mean, you know me now, I was pissed. But I had three more days of competition. So the next day, 100-meter prelims.

Was it the same approach for the high jump? Was it like this, everyone's stressed, I'm relaxed, I'm just in slow? Or was it a different approach?

Everyone gets stressed in these moments, but I was so relaxed. Every time I compete, I'm so relaxed. I don't get nervous before I compete. Once again, product of my mother. She always told me as a young kid, you're not nervous. You're excited. The feelings are the same. Tell yourself it's excitement and the nerves will go away. And I would always tell myself, I'm excited. I'm pumped for this because it is the same. Heart racing, getting amped up. I'm amped before I compete, but I'm not nervous. And I have lost the sensation of nerves entirely.

How do you stop yourself in that moment from the memory of the blade hitting the pole and those kind of movie moments we all almost imagine of like, oh, your life flashes before your eyes. How are you so locked in? What is it? Is it, of course, your mom's advice? Is it music you've listened to before? Is it like, what is it that allows you to not?

It's the meditation. Every morning when I meditate, I'm training my mind for what I'm going to experience when I compete. And so naturally in meditation, the first couple of times you try it, other thoughts creep in and you get better at the skill of removing those thoughts. You're training your brain to focus on something. Nowadays, there's a million distractions. How do you get your brain to slow down and focus on a very specific thing? And so the repetition of that over three, four years, if a thought comes into my brain, I can get it out real quick.

It's so great to hear you explain meditation that simply and beautifully. You're absolutely right though. Because you're meditating for so many days and years, you're getting to get the thoughts that are going to trip you up in the finals out early on. And so it's not that you never had that thought. It's that you had that thought so early on. It's just that it doesn't repeat itself because you've practiced not having that thought for so long.

And the thought doesn't throw you off. The thought is a thought and it's a moment. And when I'm competing, it's not like no other thoughts get into my head. I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, oh, I love this song. Oh, this is cool. I'm having a good time. I'm relaxed, but nothing throws me off. That's the ultimate flow state is letting nothing throw you off your game. That could be in a meeting. That could be when you're doing something really important. Whatever you're going after, whatever you're doing.

You get the call from Dancing With the Stars. What's the response? What do you say?

Dancing With the Stars was something that I always dreamt about doing. It was always in the back of my mind. I've loved the show forever. I've had friends that have been on the show and it felt like it was so connected to my purpose to step out of my comfort zone and then through dance get to normalize disability, through dance hopefully get the opportunity to show people what's possible as an amputee, missing fingers. There's something so poetic about that. And so when I got the call, I was yes, 100%.

Tell me about some of the messages you've received from fans and tell me about how it's been impacting the community and the people that you're doing this for.

I feel like I'm dancing with the backing of so many people, whether they have a physical disability or they're different in any way, anybody in pursuit of their dreams that is facing any sort of challenges. And so I feel so much love and support. It is so fueling. It is so fueling. I get up every day and feel like I'm dancing with a purpose and that is so special. And getting to see on social media videos of kids with limb differences watching me dance, little girl who is missing fingers on her hand and her father said to me how much it meant to see my left hand in the shot at the first part of our dance and to see people in wheelchairs and missing limbs and getting to feel like I can help be a small part of that representation for this community that so badly needs it is filling my heart really.

Yeah, I'm sure you're getting so many messages and those videos to see that must be just like so heartwarming.

It's so beautiful. It's so special. I mean, this is Lily who I do it for. I saw this video of this really cute kid with a hand difference. He's jumping on his bed watching me dance, watching me do a cha cha. Something that doesn't feel serious. I'm dancing. I'm having fun. I'm doing goofy moves. But it is serious because the ripple effect of that is so massive. And I could not be more honored and grateful to be on such a special show and to get to feel so connected to my purpose.

And that must be special because they've seen you along the way. They've heard you talk about your dreams.

He's seen me along the way and he's seen me talk about normalizing disability through the Paralympics. And then now I get to do that in some unique way through dance. It's like, oh my, it's so special.

It's amazing. Has anyone cool reached out that you've been like, that you could share that you're like, oh, this was a cool moment for you?

Amy Purdy has given me a lot of love.

She's amazing.

Which was really special. She's fantastic. She was on Dancing With the Stars. She was the first Paralympian to ever be on the show. Her and all of the other people with disabilities have paved the way. And honestly, the support within the Dancing With the Stars ecosystem has been really special.

Yeah, tell me about that. Tell me about the dynamics of the cause.

The way I describe it is it's like a summer camp. And you go to the summer camp and you become best friends with all of these people and you know that at some point that experience is going to come to an end, but that makes you appreciate every single moment you have with them so much more. And you know that you're going to be lifelong friends afterwards. Such beautiful people, such a loving environment. And because all of the cast is stepping out of their comfort zone and dancing on national television, it bonds you. I've only known some of these people for a little over a month.

It's so great you know that, to be doing so many incredible things with your life and you know it in the moment, rather than to look back with nostalgia and say, oh, once upon a time, I used to do this thing. And you have this kind of beautiful vision of it, but to actually get to absorb every positive emotion and every feeling. And I'm sure when you and Daniella are dancing and you're looking at the host and you're really in the mix, it feels like you can savor that experience in a way that you'll remember it even more than if you just look back on it as a fun memory.

You're absolutely right. I remember after my first dance, we did a tango, week one, and one of the interviewers in the press line after, they were like, do you even remember the dance or do you just black out? And I said, actually, I remember every step of that dance. I remember every single time my foot touched that floor because I was trying to. I was trying to be present. And that makes the experience feel so magical when I even think back about that week one dance. Once again, that's what I'm trying to embody every time I step in the ballroom.

What does it feel like going from being an expert in what you do, being elite, and then starting something totally brand new? You told me you had no background in dance.

It's crazy. I am not a dancer in any way. I mean, maybe I shouldn't say that now, words are spells, but I was not a dancer. I have danced at weddings and loved to dance and was always in the middle of the dance floor having a good time, but no dance experience. And so not only is that a challenge for us, but then also from a prosthetic standpoint, from a disability standpoint, we are having to reshape the way we do certain movements. And she's having to totally step out of her comfort zone in the way she choreographs each dance and the movements we can do and the things we can't do as well.

Yeah. And you hit a win.

There's so much that's out of your control on a show like Dancing With Stars. In track, it's black and white. You win, you lose. Here, you don't know how someone's going to feel or respond to your dance. And so my mentality here is I'm going to put my heart into this. I'm going to put my soul into this. I'm going to do absolutely everything I can to work hard, leave no stone unturned. And then we let the cards fall where they fall. But my thought is I'm going to wear my heart on my sleeve, dance my heart out on that dance floor, and if we can go far, that would be amazing.

I'm wishing you all the best.

Thank you.

I'm going to show up for you. I'm going to come watch you.

Please come watch me.

I'm going to watch you. Yeah, I've been worrying for you, but I'm going to come watch you for sure.

Thank you.

I'd love to see you live. That would be amazing. You tell me when and where and I'll be there.

I would love to have you. I would love to have you.

As I've been listening to you today, I feel like I've learned so much from you. I've learned about the community. I've learned about Paralympics. I've learned about what it feels like to have a limb deficiency. Like I've learned so much and I feel like you're such a phenomenal spokesperson.

Thank you.

For your community, but I imagine that comes with pressure. I imagine that comes with weight. And you wear it so gracefully and you wear it so confidently and I love that for you. And maybe you don't feel it. Maybe just like with sport, you don't feel any pressure because you're like, this is me and this is who I am. I'm just intrigued as to like, how do you feel? Because you obviously want to show the world what's possible. And then of course, there's a whole community out there of different disabilities and challenges and difficulties.

I think about this all the time. I will spend my life committed to this cause. And that is, for me, genuinely what I feel like I was put on this earth to do. So there is no negativity in that. There is beauty in that. There is gratitude in that. There is love in that. And that's the way I see it is sometimes people feel pressure, feel stress, feel fear, feel expectation, and it feels like it weighs them down.

I love that answer. And your life's obviously full of advocacy. Can you tell me more about the advocacy work that you're actually doing as well? Of course, whether you're competing on Dancing With the Stars or winning gold at the Paralympics, these are all incredible. But I know before we even started recording, we were talking about some of your work. Can you tell me a bit more about that?

It was over a decade ago where when I first started adaptive sports, we were having to travel across the country to find these track meets where I could compete against other people with physical disabilities. And my father was just thinking, why are we traveling halfway across the country to run, jump, and throw stuff? You're telling me there's no adaptive sports in Southern California? If you have a physical disability, that's absurd. We have the people, facilities, the weather. It's a sports-obsessed city. And so that was the spark.

Absolutely. I'd love to be there.

And capitalize on that. And hopefully through the Paralympics, through this beautiful opportunity, I call it our golden opportunity, do what we've seen throughout history with the Jackie Robinson, the Billie Jean King, the Nelson Mandela, the moment to transcend and change society for the better.

What's the one thing you want the world to stop believing about people with disabilities?

The one thing that I would want the world to stop believing about people with disabilities is that they are any less capable because of their physical attributes. I mean, people with disabilities should not be underestimated. It's a product of society's perception of this thing that is scary and a little bit isolated and has a stigma. But we are never limited by the amount of limbs that we have or what we have access to physically.

Yeah. It's mind-blowing watching it, actually.

Thank you.

It's just, yeah, you are totally taken aback in the best way possible.

In the best way possible.

Yeah, you're in awe.

And then your perception of disability is changed.

Absolutely. Yeah.

And so from a macro standpoint, that's how society progresses.

For sure. It's definitely where the conversation starts. It's definitely where the conversation shifts. Ezra, it has been so fun talking to you today and getting to know you.

This flew by.

I know. I was going like two hours. It is incredible to see what you've done as such a young man and the eloquence and poise with which you talk about the incredible life you live and the impact you want to make and the fact that you found your purpose so young and are able to express it so spectacularly is something I'm in awe of, truly. It's really special, man. And congratulations. And I'm genuinely, genuinely going to be cheering for you all the way, rooting for you in your corner.

Dream big.

Who said that to you?

My parents.

How has it helped you?

I think most people fail, not because they set goals that are too high and fall short of them, but rather because they set goals that are too low. They accomplish those and then in turn just leave a ton of potential on the table because they didn't believe that they were capable of more. And so dreaming big, pursuing it with everything I have is that's my DNA. And that came from my parents.

I love that. Question number two, what's the worst advice you ever heard or received?

Be okay being mediocre. There was a basketball coach who never said this verbatim when I was younger, but would definitely doubt me and would always tell me that it's okay to not score a ton of points. It's okay to not play well. You got a disability, man. Like it's okay. And I would always think to myself, like, why would I ever not push myself just because I had a physical disability if I felt like I was capable of more?

Thank you. That's very helpful. It's useful as well. Because like you said earlier, people can be well-intentioned or they're trying to give a compliment or they're, but it's not recognizing what you're actually going through.

Disabled people shouldn't be pitied.

Yeah, yeah.

Someone with a disability shouldn't be pitied or be inspiring just for having a physical disability. They should be inspiring for the person that they are, the things they speak about, what they overcome, what they pursue. It's just this reoccurring trope that like even growing up, I would talk to kids and they'd be like, I'm so sorry. Like, don't feel bad for me. I love my life. I love my disability. I love who I am. You don't have to feel bad for me. My parents would get that all the time. They'd be like, I'm so sorry about Ezra.

Question number three, what do you say to yourself when you don't want to get out of bed in the morning?

I tell myself that there are kids all over the world with physical disabilities who are seen as cursed, seen as less than. I tell myself that there's such a large percentage of the population that needs a voice and needs a spokesperson and needs to feel properly included in society. And if I can play even the smallest role in making that happen, I must commit my absolute life to doing so. That goes beyond sport, beyond dance, beyond speaking.

Question number four, if anyone listening is struggling right now, what would you say to them?

I would tell them to embrace being uncomfortable as much as possible, surround themselves with people who deeply care for them, and find something that is really meaningful and pursue it. I think most people struggle to find something that is really meaningful to them, struggle to find that sense of purpose. And that can be the thing that pulls you out of even the most dark moments is knowing that you're doing this for a bigger purpose and you were put on this earth for a specific reason.

Fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

People with disabilities get equal access to sport opportunities all over the world. That would be the law that every single sport opportunity that any able-bodied person gets, someone with a disability gets the same. That would be the law. I think that would transform society.

Ezra Freck, Dancing With the Stars, Paralympian.

Gold medalist. Truly a pleasure, man. Thank you so much.

Such a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Yeah.