Transcript of Hope Without Sight: Learning to Feel Deeply Without Losing Yourself with Saylor Cooper New

Hey, hey, my friends! Welcome to another episode of Notes from the Edge. I'm your host, Lisa Lacey, and this is where we have the conversations we should have been having all along. In here, we talk about the things you ain't talking about. You won't talk about it, but we will. And today's guest is a very special friend of mine, Sailor Cooper. Saylor Cooper is an author, entrepreneur, radio host, speaker, and founder of Real Variety Radio, an internet radio station created to unite listeners and artists through diverse music programming and storytelling. He is also the creator of a previous podcast, Hope Without Sight, where he shared thought-provoking conversations with people who have overcome adversity and transformed their experience into resilience, hope, and possibility. Blind and living with disabilities, Saylor has built his work around helping others recognize that circumstances do not determine the limits of our lives. And he has a very expansive professional background, and he continues to explore emotional intelligence, empathy, personal growth, and the power of meaningful human connection, which is our whole purpose on this show. Saylor, welcome to Notes from the Edge. How are you today, my friend?

Oh, you sound very energetic and alive. Uh, it's, it's the most energetic I've seen you in. Thank you for that introduction. Yes, I, I've hosted the Hope Without Sight podcast, but my latest podcast is the Blissful Connections radio show, live every Monday night at 7 PM on Real Variety Radio, and then distributed the next day as a podcast. I know you were on that when we were working together. Yeah, Lisa and I go back almost a year because we— no worries, we're gonna dive into detail and I might— I'm gonna be raw here on the show and please bear with me if I get a little emotional and break down. But, uh, Lisa and I met whenever just, um, my life was just in shambles and Uh, my life was completely upside down, uh, for a couple years. And just fast forward, here we are now. And I'm just glad to be here on the show. And we've all had whirlwinds.

I know we've all had whirlwinds. That's right, my friend. And what I loved the most about you is I think you were actually one of my most favorite clients because you were so committed to the work. But you yourself have spent years interviewing people who have overcome their own adversities. So, Sailor, what have talking to all those people taught you about the difference between surviving and allowing something to transform you?

Oh, I guess surviving. I guess I just never knew that I really was surviving. I knew that survival just meant to, I guess, try and mask and be someone who you're not. And what allowed me to stop surviving and to thrive is to become my true self, who I've always meant to be. And that's where your program that you used to host which was very transformational for me. It really helped me understand who I truly am, basically, with all the work that we did, such as the personality test, CliftonStrengths, the Human Design, you know, astrology, all that stuff, and the emotional work. Uh, it was life-changing. I wrote in my journal Um, as I said, you— what you've given me was unmatched compared to any other therapist. They could not have given me— I'm glad— I want to tie this also. You, you said in your previous episodes, I don't like how— you don't like how the mental health system, uh, treats people. Uh, we're treated as an afterthought whenever we have a diagnosis, we're treated as a case, someone on paper, and it's not the way it should be. It's not the way it should be.

Well, that's why we're having these conversations, right, my friend? So we can reform it, right? So, and I think, I think there are well-intentioned people in the clinical therapeutic arena. They're really just trying to help, but I think it's very important to listen to us, those of us experiencing it on the other side, and maybe get some feedback from us on what the experience is like to be talked about and talked around and not given a choice in our own care or treatment. Don't you think personal choice is very important when it comes to mental health recovery?

It is. Yes. Personal space is very important. I don't like— what I'm trying to get is I don't like when people pathologize people, and it's not good.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's no fun. It's definitely no fun, and I think it limits our ability, uh, it limits our ability to heal. So, um, Sailor, let me ask you a very personal question. You said you're willing to get vulnerable here, so what, what do you feel like sighted people misunderstand about blindness the most? Where do you feel the most misunderstood, or where are we sighted people getting it wrong for you?

We get this a lot, whether we're out and about or just interacting on a daily basis. People who don't know us, they think that we're incapable. There's a misconception that we're incapable of living life like everybody else. Yes, there's certain things that we can't do, such as drive yet, but I mean, we could, we may have adaptations and do things differently, but we could still, we could still do it, you know?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

Absolutely. I think that is a misconception. And I think, Sailor, that's why you enjoyed our work together so much, because I just saw you as a human being willing to show up and do the work for yourself. And you hit on something in your first answer that I want to circle back to, and that is becoming who you really are no matter what, setting loving but direct boundaries with people. So walk me through some of that process. How did you go from, oh my gosh, my life is such a chaotic mess, to man, I really like who I am as a human? Because I think a lot of people listening out there could learn from you right now.

I guess validation, um, helped basically the work that we But the work that we did together, like, like I said, all the, all the activities we did from nervous system regulation, understand how my nervous system works, and just all the discoveries that we did, it brought like an aha moment and helped me understand just who I truly am and why the way I've been. Because before, before, I'm not gonna lie, I, I, uh, whenever I had difficulties, um, with certain people, I didn't understand what was going on. I didn't, I didn't even understand, uh, I, I just didn't even understand like what was going on with myself.

Yes, and I think an important piece of the work is creating that self-awareness and self-forgiveness, right? We have to forgive ourselves for showing up and doing the best that we could with the tools we had at the time. So I think those two together, some self-awareness and some self-forgiveness, can go a long way to getting you in a space where you truly love your life again. Or if the first time ever.

Exactly. Because one of the questions you included in here was, before we talk about today, take us back to the version who you truly were when you first came to work with me. What were you struggling to understand about yourself, your emotions, and what you experienced the world? And yeah, I think I answered that very well. Like, uh, and I know there are some other questions later, but I know like I've always been different, uniquely myself. I just never understood, like, how and why. And that's why not everybody is meant to work with everybody.

And oh no, it's got to be the right fit, right? The right fit matters when you're working with transformational coaches, for sure.

And it goes the same for my programs I've been trying to launch. I know not my, my target audience. It's not just anybody. And that's why I host a podcast and I book discovery calls to make sure that we're the right fit.

I love it. I love it. Yes, that's a very— guys, and just— we hit on this a lot in this space because I had done all of the therapeutic stuff. You name an acronym, I did it. DBT, CBT, neurofeedback, brain mapping, EMDR, EFT. There's a letter to it. I did it. And I was still waking up going, man, I don't know if I want to be doing this. So I still wasn't feeling any better. It was a transformational coach that finally helped me move forward, and that's why I have so much respect for them and why I, I so highly recommend getting a transformational coach that is the right fit for you to supplement what you're doing in the clinical therapeutic arena. So Um, so, Sailor, you just read— oh, go ahead. Yeah.

And to echo on that, you rippled that down to me. You had a transformational coach. I got— I got— then I got one. You were mine, and I'm becoming—

and now you are one. Yes, that's how this works. It is the ripple effect. I love it. I love it.

Well, go ahead, Sailor.

When did you realize that empathy was both a gift and something that could completely overwhelm you?

Oh man, uh, like I said, I've always known I've been this way all my life. And maybe— and I know there were— I knew that I was different. I knew that I was sensitive. We can trace it all the way back to since I was a baby, you know. Of course, uh, Loud noises would scare me, um, and I would get overstimulated. It would cause me to have seizures. And even one of my fascinations, I'll say on the show now, is engines, small engines, leaf blowers, lawn mowers, weed eaters, and even like diesel engines. They were— and you know what, I love them now. I'm the engine whisperer.

Oh my gosh, we've got a wood chipper right outside my door right now, my friend.

You would love being over here right now.

He's Started it at like 8 this morning. I was like, oh no, I hope they can't hear it on the show. But Sailor loves them, so that's great.

That's what ties to my sensitivity. Like, I've always been sensitive. I just never understood why until recently. And like, that's why, like, uh, and I like what you said on one of your Raw episodes that you talked about your grandmother who was brutally murdered by domestic violence. And, uh, you said how even a sound from a harsh tone of voice, especially like another man's harsh tone of voice, could really, uh, cause fear. And no wonder why I was reacting the way I did, like with certain, like, new family and stuff, and Uh, I, I think what has really helped me to finally be okay is the principle of being the container, not the sponge, and the, the, the breath work and the somatic work. And it's— thank you.

Yeah, you're welcome, my friend. Well, let's talk about that. Talk about being the container, not the sponge. So what was happening before and how is it different for you now in terms of experiencing other people's pain or grief or anger or emotion?

Oh, how is it different? I just learned to not absorb everybody's energy, I guess. Just listen with— listen to what their wants and needs are. And it's not my responsibility to carry like everybody else's baggage. Like when other people have anxiety around me, I guess I just contain it and just focus on my true self, like when to intervene and when to step back. And this is—

I love that. Yeah, you're making conscious choices, right? You can make conscious choices with what to do with their energy instead of subconsciously absorbing all of their stuff, because we highly sensitive people, do have a tendency— caretakers, nurturers, highly sensitive people, HSPs— have a tendency to absorb a lot of stuff, and it can cause us a lot of problems if we get overstimulated. Like, we might not, uh, you might not like it. So it's good to be the container and hold space skillfully, recognize what's ours, what's theirs, where we begin, where they end, all the good stuff. So, um, your identity has become larger than anything that's ever held you back right now. I think you're in a very pivotal place in your life, and it's, it's so amazing to see and to watch. And I'm so excited for, um, what's coming next for you, my friend. How have other people's expectations affected your life before? And then when did you stop believing or needing that and start really tuning into your own wants, needs, values for yourself first?

Oh, this is a good one. Other people, like, have expected to be, like, sometimes someone who I'm not. And maybe even though intentions would be good, like they mean well, they want to like help me and correct me. It's just sometimes it's just the style, the way it comes across. That's what really has affected me in the past. And I'm gonna— I wanna say this without fail right now. Out of all the sessions that we did in your former program, Session 6 was by far my favorite, by far, because we talked about the emotional intelligence skill of the week. We had Session 6, I think, over a year ago, a week, a year and a week ago we had Session 6. And by the way, I saved all the recordings before you and I discovered that you have a podcast. I listened to all those sessions. Every single bit of it, just to reinforce that we learn and what, what, what I learned in session 6 was my favorite because we all have our circles and it's just about having realistic expectations versus unrealistic. Uh, even though other people mean well, not everybody is meant to be a mentor.

Not everybody is meant to be my coach. And you said that there are gonna be just the right people who fall into my lap. And what I've learned, especially in Toastmasters, is there's a difference between constructive feedback and criticism. It's just how it's delivered, the style that it's delivered, whether it's a positive or negative way. And that's just really helped me just be my true self. I don't care, like, whatever people, you know, think of me. I— everybody's on their own journey, you know. And I, I, I may not like how other people do, others do certain things, uh, but everybody's, everybody's their own, you know.

That's right. And we meet people where they are, but that doesn't mean we have to spend all day with them either. Yeah, I love that. Well, let's talk about Toastmasters because you recently gave a Toastmasters speech. Congratulations. Congratulations. It was on The Gift of Empathy: Your Journey of Emotional Intelligence and Feeling Deeply. So what has— and, and man, you know, studies in science, Sailor, and you know this from our experience together, teach us that EQ or EI, emotional intelligence, is actually more important than IQ in having healthy relationships. So talk to me about how increasing your emotional intelligence has improved your relationships and brought some good people into your circle like we had talked about over a year ago?

Oh, it is. Well, first, the foundation of fundamentals, it is first, I'm glad we went to understanding myself, how I operate, and, and then understanding others. You know, the old, as the old saying goes, you help yourself first and then help others.

Yes.

I've, I'm glad I was able to understand myself and it has helped me to understand realistic expectations versus unrealistic expectations. My favorite worksheet, can I say that? My favorite worksheet that you gave me is the RAMP. R-A-A-M-P.

When we get ramped up.

Yeah.

I, I still have to use that, my friend. Trust me.

Oh.

I have menopause and I'm having to pull out my own worksheets.

Recount. Articulate. No, was it recount?

Recount. Yeah.

Articulate, advocate, manage, provide, and testify. Like, another, another characteristic I discovered that I have as part of being emotionally sensitive is that there's this, there's this term called RSD, rejection sensitive dysphoria. It's— I'm sure you've heard of it. It's where Uh, you feel rejected very easy. Like when— and I'm glad you and I talked about this— like when people— when I try to call someone, you know, whether it's a close friend or close relative, a sibling, aunt, uncle, I've been there before. And when they don't answer the calls, I just get very overwhelmed. I feel like they've forgotten about me, but at the same time I know how to advocate. For example, I understand everybody has a life. Everybody's busy. For example, if we can set a weekly schedule where we can talk, you and I can have a phone call. I ask like, what day works best for you? Let's coordinate a time window, say between like 5 and 7. And let's have our call then. And if for whatever reason— I know things come up, life happens, life changes— just please don't leave me high and dry. Don't leave, don't leave me in the dark.

Let me know. Let's reschedule and we're good. As long as I love it.

Yes, Sailor. So you're coping ahead. You're scheduling it. And my daughter and her grandmother, her Meemaw, have a weekly Sunday call. They do the same thing once a week. So I love that, and then you're letting people know, hey, by the way, I feel this way when you do this. Please don't ghost me because that's going to suck for me. Yes. Yes. So you are now calmer, more grounded, and more connected to who you are at your core. And Sailor, I think there's something so cool that happens for us when we dig ourselves as human beings. We've forgiven ourselves for past behavior when we didn't have the tools. We can articulate how we tick and click to people. And so how has that growth affected your personal life? How has the past year been for you?

It's been much calmer overall. I mean, and that's just where I want to be vulnerable. And maybe you could tell me that I'm not alone. You've been there. You, you, I mean, everybody's journey is different. I know what you should, I shouldn't compare everybody's journey side by side, but We've all been there. I'm sure you've been there where you, you acted in ways that you didn't mean. You said hard stuff, actually ran, fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. During my intense moments, I still feel like, I still feel shame how I was. Like I thought 2 years ago, we just adjusting to a new family dynamic. I won't get into the specifics because this is a podcast, but adjusting to a new family dynamic, new family members coming into my life. Uh, whenever they and I clashed really hard, uh, I, I mean, other people thought I was crazy reacting the way I did. As I said, I'm glad you call yourself a certified mad woman. I'm not gonna lie, I was a certified madman.

Are you a madman, Sailor?

No, no, I was, I was, I was a couple years. And what scared so many people is that, uh, they never seen me this way before, and I, I guess they just didn't— they didn't understand the context. Neither did I. And I'm glad, like You emphasize that whatever people has, whatever people have, whether it's bipolar disorder, BPD, or trauma. I've had some trauma and everybody has, thankfully not severe. I'm just, I'm glad to know that how to manage it better. Like trauma lives in the body. It's not logic. And I think it's very important that Everybody needs to understand, people may have wisdom, but they don't understand everybody's experience. Everybody's experience is unique. And I will say this, emotional pain can be just as painful as physical pain or even more.

Yes. And emotional pain can eventually cause physical pain too. Let's not, let's not overlook that. And what I love about what you just highlighted, my friend, is change can be hard for of us. Like, transitions are hard for some of us. And you're absolutely right, in, in my active addiction, I was not— we'll just say— the kindest person. Um, and you bring up another good point, Sailor. You know, ditching the shame and guilt for previous behaviors where we probably didn't perform or react in a way that we can look back and go, wow, that was a great reaction, is daily practice. And we're still at it. Right? We're still working on it. We're a work in progress always, don't you think?

Oh, yes. Well, we're always working as long as we know that we're doing the best we can. And I still have my maintenance. I listen to the Somatic Healing Meditations podcast. I can send it to you. It's a— it's— it's a— it's another podcast that a lady named Corinna, she's in Colorado. She does it. She does somatic breathwork and release, and I'm also part of her premium community. As one of my birthday gifts, I requested from my mom is to get a full membership to the Somatic Healing Hub, where we have one— we have group classes every week in Kajabi, and we even— we have meditations. We have what's called Nada Yoga, where an instructor comes on And he's from India. He has us do breathwork and do sounds like yum. I love it.

Getting all that energy out. Well, Sailor, what is coming up next for you and where can people find you right now and your work?

Oh, I guess I'm just plugging along. Mainly Blissful Connections. I'm still doing a podcast and I got people listening in the background. My grandmother's here in the background, even though whether I'm getting paid for it or not, people tell me, people tell me to just keep doing it regardless because it's going to pay off. Even though I'm not sure how many listeners are listening, it's making a big impact. I'm proud of Notes from the Edge. That is number one. I want Blissful Connections to get there, and I'm still doing that. Uh, let's see, what else am I doing? I'm glad that I'm not chasing hype anymore because honestly, before we met, uh, one of the most, uh, painful parts of this experience is during this period from 2023 until last year was I was also working very hard to become very successful in business, which meant like spending thousands and thousands of dollars on high-ticket coaching programs that did not yield results and also chasing hype. I'm very thankful that I had investors, family, and friends who helped me do it. I'm so— and I'm so glad, even though it did not pay off, I don't have to pay them back.

I already did in a way. I showed them I learned from it. I worked as hard as I could. And of course, I'm just so glad that you and I met and that I went through— I'm so glad that you and I met and I went through your program. I'm glad we met at that summit that Jenny and Joe put on. It was meant to happen. It was the divine, God's, the universe's plan. And we're all not perfect. And I'm just, I'm really, the work that you helped me do is, you really helped me. I wouldn't be where I am if it wasn't for your work.

Well, thank you, my friend. And you know what, I don't know that I'd be where I am if it wasn't for you showing up and doing the work for yourself, because you inspire me.

Yes.

Hi. Hello, I'm his grandmother, Teen.

Hey. Hi.

I just wanted to see you, see what you look like for one thing, but the main thing is I want to personally thank you for the entire family. For what you have done for Sailor and helped him through his tough times in his journey. And we're— I personally am so proud of him.

Thank you.

Yes, doing— and he, he knows that. So, uh, just, uh, I just felt like— and he wanted me to listen. He's so— was so happy about having this podcast with you.

Yeah.

So he asked me would I come over, and so I've been sitting over there having my coffee and enjoying every moment of it, wishing that I had recorded it on my phone. Because I want the whole family and all of his friends to understand him as well as I think I understand him.

Yeah.

And, uh, and you do, and he's understanding himself. Because there are— we do have family members that don't understand his hyperness, his, his, uh, you know, silly crazy ways. And I'm sure you know about the—

yeah, yeah, yeah.

But, uh, there's so many of us that are just amazed and awed at his, uh, growing up and becoming fabulous on his journey.

So yeah, he is fabulous, and I've got chills. Thank you so much. But you know what, I'll tell you why he was my favorite client. He showed up and he did the work for himself.

Yes.

And he was excited to do it, and it wasn't— oh yeah, you know, but facing our ideas Yes, we all do. We all do, my friend.

Yeah, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not so much.

It's so lovely to see you.

Yeah, hey, and, uh, I know I'm not a, I'm not a certified madman anymore, literally, even though people thought I was. I thought I was changed. They thought that period would define me forever. I'm, I'm To anybody who's listening to the show, if I scared y'all in, uh, acting unusual ways, I'm sorry.

Oh, Sailor, you know what, my friend? I'm so impressed with the way that you showed up to make changes in your life. And you just taught us all something very important. We are not defined by one single moment in our lives, are we?

No. When we all— I know we all have bad moments. We've all had some very bad moments. We all do. We can't avoid it. And I this period, I guess, happened to be like one of them. And if you don't mind me asking, if you don't mind me mentioning, I was amazed what you've been going through, because I know, like, while we were working together, you still had complications with your health. And in fact, we actually went on a hiatus for a month, and I was very worried that we were not going to be able to continue. And I'm just so glad that we've made it. It's as far as we did, because I, I, I was, I was like, oh my God, as soon as I saw on your post, I felt so like, wow, it's incredible. It's, it's just, it's just my friend.

I'm like a cockroach. I'm not going anywhere.

I'm not going anywhere. You almost died 5 months ago, and I'm so glad you're still here.

Well, thank you, my friend. Thank you. That was very scary. But you know what? Uh, when I got discharged from the hospital, I turned 50 right after, and I took a solo sojourn with my 21-year-old Italian Greyhound, Mr. Villain, who I've had since he was 3 months old. It was just me and him, and it changed the trajectory of my life, Sailor. So our adversities— and you've taught us this today— our adversities can, uh, help lead us in a direction that then makes us want to turn around and inspire others. And that's exactly what you do every day. So yes, your family is right. Keep showing up and doing the work that you do. I'm going to keep showing up and do the work that I do. And you know what? I had a personal coach once tell me this, and I think it's so important. It's enough for us just to inspire one person.

That's it.

And if we're doing that, We're in the good human realm, right? We're good humans. Now we'll be working on our shame and guilt for probably the rest of our lives if you've been a certified mad woman or madman. But if we keep showing up for ourselves and then are in loving service to those that we love, care about, support, and serve, uh, the world is a better place. And the world is a better place with you in it, my friend. Thank you so much. All right, tell us where— okay, we're gonna put all the links for Blissful Connections, for your coaching program. Everything's going to be here. You don't have to write this down, but Sailor, tell us where people can find you. Where do they go?

If you go to realvarietyradio.com, uh, just simply go there, you'll find my stuff there. Or if you go to realvarietyradio.com/blissfulconnections, uh, that's right, I have individual pages, um, there. And, uh, if you, if you go there, you'll find all the information about me. I even have a speaking portfolio. Yes, one of the pillars I've been trying to work on is get $5,000 bookable, billable keynotes.

Yes.

Before we begin working together, I mean, I'll still do it if I can get a gig, but I, I, I just, I, I don't want to overdo myself.

Yes, we have to be mindful of our energy. Well, Sailor, we're going to put all your links for people to find you and including your speaking portfolio. And we always close out asking our guests 2 questions. Are you ready for them?

I'm ready. Yes.

All right, the first question is: in your own life, what did you perform in order to survive, and what did dropping that role, mask, or performance do to improve your life?

Oh, I guess I just— I thought I had to live up to everybody else's expectations, whether if it was people not understanding, like blindness, my primary disability, or just living to somebody else's expectations, how I should do something different when I know I'm on the right track. And yes, dropping that, dropping that mask has allowed me to just be my true authentic self. In other words, if I don't make, if I don't make as much money as others, it's okay. I just get to be my true self, and that's all what counts. And I know, like we said in session 6, there are other people who are going to see me for who I truly am, and they will be in my circle.

Yes, exactly, my friend. All right, last question. You ready?

Yeah. All right.

What do you wish we were talking more about? What do we need to be having more conversations about, in your opinion?

Oh, definitely mental health.

Yes.

There's a, there's a difference between mental illness and mental health. We gotta lower the stigma and just Talking about the seasons of life to be your true self. And that's what Blissful Connections is about. It's, it's, it's evolved, not just having good relationships. It's about navigating life's journeys and life's relationships, whether it's neurodivergence, spirituality, family dynamics. One of my favorite episodes on there was a, a rerun I did last night. A guest I had on in February, from Toronto, Canada, who was in a car accident, was ejected from a vehicle, and nearly died. Well, actually, she actually died. She went, she went to heaven. She saw spirits, and then, but her higher power told her that, and all her family members who've gone before her told her that she wasn't ready yet, and she was brought back to life. And wow. Yeah, it's a great episode. And so we just need to have more conversations on mental health, authenticity, and just how to be your true self. Not everybody will get you, and that's okay. It doesn't define you.

It doesn't define you, my friend. All right, guys, if you want to be a guest on Sailor's show, we're going to put a link where you can reach out. If you want him to come speak and inspire your audience, we're going to put a link for that too. Sailor, my friend, so much love for you, and I'm so impressed with your journey. And thank you so much for being such a huge part of mine. You are valued and appreciated over here, my friend.

Oh, you are too. And maybe figuratively, keep being a certified mad woman.

I don't know if that's a good idea, my friend. No, we can't go that far. And I can't wait—

the book comes out.

Let's talk about it.

I can't wait to read your book.

I'm excited too. We're still on schedule. We're on schedule for October. So, all right, friends out there, thank you so much for joining Sailor and I for this inspiring conversation. And remember, ask yourself the question: what are you performing in order to survive? And what might dropping that role mask and performance do for your own life? I'm your host, Lisa Lacey, and when you find that answer, I'll see you at the edge. Thank you, Sailor.

Thank you. See you at the edge.