Transcript of Last Update on the Left - Episode 14 - Henry Lee Lucas Revisited - Part II

That's when the cannibalism started. Last update on the left. You know what I'm realizing now is that for so long, I always kind of thought that the smells associated with Henry Lee Lucas and Otis Toole, like one of the worst smells would be the habitual cigarettes.

Yeah.

Cigarette smoke. Now I'm starting to understand. I just recently was like watching footage of Otis Toole talking alone to a reporter in a room, chain smoking.

Yeah.

And then there, I, it started to understand in my brain. I was like, oh no, the smoke is good compared to them.

Yeah. It covers up the body odor, the smell of Otis Toole.

I think that the scent of Henry Lee Lucas, the smoke was like a tool, a tool by Otis Toole. Yeah. Just sort of almost gratiate him to people in a way.

Yeah, do you really want to experience essence of Otis?

No, because if you experience essence of Otis, you end up as a fucking child with no head.

The only time Otis washed himself is when the police hit him with a hose.

Thank you.

Welcome to the last update on the left, everyone. My name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with Henry Zabaski.

No, you're not. You're here with Otis too, and I'm the most rounded, tallest, oldest man you've ever seen who's also yet a boy.

Oh yeah, have you Enjoying your time in prison?

Oh yeah, if they knew how good of a time I'd have, they'd let me out.

You had any conjugal visits from it? Yeah, I hear you're quite the ladies' man.

I push them on people. Sometimes people find out we're about to have one.

And of course, Ed Larson.

Hi, how you doing? What's going on? And I'm rooting for— I'm here despite the fact that the Dolphins are playing today. Wow.

Tennessee Titans 3, Dolphins 0.

Oh wow, as much—

good. Really? Yeah, you know, the game started like seconds ago. I If there was one episode where it's appropriate to follow the Dolphins as we record, it's today.

What's incredible is that it's actually the second quarter, uh, the second the show started, the Titans scored. Yeah, and we'll be giving Ed updates on how the Dolphins are doing throughout the episode. But the reason why we're talking about Otis Toole is because we are returning to Henry Lee Lucas because we, as we talked about him quite a bit in the last update, but there was a lot of information that we didn't get to a lot of stuff that we didn't talk about in our first go-round with Henry Lee Lucas, because I believe our only sources back then were a trashy supermarket true crime paperback and the book Hand of Death.

Yes.

That was co-written by the Christian lady who visited Otis Toole in prison.

And it gave birth to a world of conspiracy theory that now we're still dealing with.

Yeah.

It's still very much in the present conversation, because Programmed to Kill was by Dave McGowan, which is a big part of the sort of, I would say, the blackpilled world that does fully believe that serial killers are trained by CIA and that the CIA then uses the serial killers to kill and procure children in order to use their magical powers to fuel their reptilian overlords that are the actual US government.

Come on, the reptilian stuff is a— that's a bridge too far.

He did spend a lot of time in Florida. Yeah, there's lots of reptiles down there. Now here's— I'm gonna admit something that's gonna make me sound ignorant. I don't know the pill thing. The black pill, the red pill.

It means nothing. Don't worry about it, Eddie.

What pill am I? What pill did I take?

You didn't— green pill.

The weed. When I smoke my goddamn pills.

Yeah, dude, fucking stop with the pills, man. It's so hard to smoke, man. The case makes my lungs hurt.

Yeah, but I'll do it if it gets me fucking ripped to the—

Well, I mean, there is a large contingent of people that believe that Henry Lee Lucas, along with a fair amount of other serial killers, were trained by either the CIA or even some sort of organization that might even be above the CIA.

Oh, yes.

We loosely talked— stepped on this.

Yeah. I mean, and there was a whole— but that's the thing is that there was this book. We were actually gonna go into this maybe for the live show that we're touring right now. We decided to go a different direction, which I— enjoy quite a bit more. But we were thinking about going into Program to Kill, but we realized that Program to Kill is mostly informed by Hand of Death, which was the book that Henry Lee Lucas and Otis Toole, I guess you could say they kind of dictated it. And they also, they yes-anded just any wacky shit that anyone said to them. They were like, "Oh, yep, I did that. And then also, I took the little girl's guts and I put them into my pants, and the government said that that's what they wanted me to do." Hey, listen, we don't know.

I don't know what half the forms of my taxes mean. So I don't know, maybe that's why I was running up all these issues for all these years, is that I never once fucked a child's intestines. But he also— Program to Kill also mentions Marc Dutroit. Well, that's a different story altogether, but those are the things he sort of loosely ties together. But I, you know, this is sort of a hint that we might— one of those little subjects I'd love to do is Dave McGowan. I'd love to go into his life. His life was actually very interesting. Yeah. Um, but that idea of the US being involved in training of serial killers is I just don't think they need the training. They seem to kind of be self-starters.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if they were over in like other countries, if there was American serial killing in other places, then I'd be like, oh, maybe.

Well, maybe that's where they go to vacation.

It makes no sense. Why would they want to kill just, you know, random girls all the time?

Because they're upset. They're angry at you.

They say no endgame.

They say, well, the endgame is to create a fear state in America and allow us to be ruled by the CIA and ruled by—

and it wraps up government.

That's what the police are for.

Yes, but they would wrap up loose ends.

They can just shoot us.

But that's what the CIA is trying to do. They're wrapping up loose ends. They're procuring children for various blackmailing problems and blackmailing— like, they use kids to blackmail other politicians to get them to do what they want them to do. And then also just because they like it.

Okay, that's black pill.

Black pill just means you're sad all the time and you think— black pill means you're on Reddit and you think you know better because you don't go anywhere.

Yeah, but the Hand of Death That stuff, like, it's— not only is it ridiculous, but we also know it's not true just because of how much Henry Lee Lucas lied. And that's kind of where we left off the last episode, was all of Henry Lee Lucas' false confessions and the aftermath of those false confessions and what happened when he finally said, "Actually, no, I didn't kill no one but my mother." It was this guy, his name was Vic Fiesel. We didn't really talk about this during our series.

I love this guy, by the way.

Vic Fiesel sounds like Vin Diesel trying to make up a fake name at a hotel.

Well, this guy's an actual hero.

Well, Vic Fiesel was a DA in Waco, and he, like everybody else in Texas, he had Henry Lee Lucas fever. Yeah, he did. And, you know, everyone did because Henry Lee Lucas was closing cases left and right. The cops in Dallas, though, Like, they were— I really gotta give it to the Dallas PD, 'cause we're getting a lot of this stuff from the Netflix series, The Confession Killer, and they talked to a woman who was a cold case detective, had like a really high clearance rate.

94%.

94%. Was fucking killing it. Yeah. And sometimes when someone has a clearance rate that high, especially a homicide detective, we've actually seen this. I think we saw it in New York City. I think there was actually one here as well. Where they had these detectives with these super high clearance rates, and it turns out that they were just forcing people into false confessions, and that's how they got their really high clearance rates.

Well, it makes sense, 'cause then that's how you get 'em.

Yeah, but this woman was not doing that. She was actually solving cases, 'cause she went down to Georgetown. They had Henry Lucas down in Georgetown.

Freaky little jail.

Yeah.

It was just the tiniest little—

Like, you easily could've— I mean— Killdozer would have no problem with this little jail. I actually feel like I think a Dodge Ram could have taken out this jail.

I think he would have tried to drive the jail.

And so this woman goes down to talk to Henry Lee Lucas and gives him a couple of, like, 3 Dallas cases, and he's like, oh yeah, I did that, and yeah, I did that, and yeah, I did that one.

Yep. Oh yep, I was there. I remember her screaming. Yep, that one. I got ice cream after. I did that. And that was always his big ones.

I did I did that. But she's a damn good detective. She knows when someone's lying. She knows when someone's bullshitting. So she goes back to Dallas, and her cops are like, all right, well, here's what you do. Put together a bogus case file. Put together bullshit photos, a bullshit report, bullshit everything. Take it back down to him, see what he says. And she did that. She did it for 3 cases. And thing is that she's having to go against the Texas Rangers at this point, because at this point, the Texas Rangers are the ones who have have Henry Lee Lucas in their care. They're the ones— they're in charge of the Henry Lee Lucas Task Force. Because what the Texas Rangers were doing is they were getting a real big fucking hard-on bringing every police department from around the country to come down to this tiny little jail in Texas and talk to Henry Lee Lucas and put their cold cases in front of him.

Come on now, get your cases cleared! Just this weekend only, Henry Lee Lucas is live and he says yes!

Were you made to look like an idiot by another idiot?

Yes, that and two shirts are being made very soon, and that and talk is actually the number one podcast currently where he's on there talking to all your favorite Kardashians saying yes to their crimes as well.

Do you have the parents of dead children banging down your door?

Tell me if you want to get rid of them today. And the worst part, man, is they don't stop until a justice is served. So come on down, get a hot pipe and plate of justice.

Yeah, make sure you grab them pawmaws, y'all, and a strawberry milkshake.

Damn.

But they were having so many police departments coming down to bring their cold cases to Henry Lucas, they had a line, and they would give each police department, 20 minutes with Henry Lee Lucas.

I just feel like it's like Naked Gun. You have like, one is like, you know, the, the, the head of police from Ghana and he's got like a crazy hat on and a spear. And then the other guy's fucking like from China, long, big hat, you know, like, like all the big long flowing robes.

And every single person that came in, every single cop that came in with their case, they'd show them the photos and, oh yeah, I did that. Yeah, I did that too.

And you just got that. Yeah. Like a woman dead next to her, like a, washing machine.

He'd be like, "Killed her by the washing machine." And they're like, "Wow, he knew that she killed her by the washing machine.

Only the killer would know such a thing." Now, can I ask honestly?

Now, this is probably one of those questions, so I'm asking here with the poet and the comedian, which is, now, these big men, these big strong Texas Rangers—

Texas Rangers.

Now, my question is, is that yes, they— it does clear their clearance rate, right?

It's not even there. They're not even there. Cases, they're doing it.

But on some level, don't you as, like, a hardcore investigator or whatever, don't you, like, want to solve the crime for real?

I think that some of these people, it's kind of like what you joked about earlier, Ed. It's like, do you have the parents of dead children knocking down your door?

Seriously. Or is it like looking to go into a psychic and trying to get questions? It almost kind of almost feels like that, where it's like you're looking to go talk to—

I think they just want the W. That's it. They want the W. They can sleep at night knowing that that case is off their— is done. The family can have a little bit of peace knowing that that's done. And I think they figure, like, well, even if it doesn't all make total sense, like, well, maybe he's remembering something wrong. You know, they can justify anything. But yeah, it's just getting— it's turning the red to black and that's it.

And it also just seems like, this is my own opinion, that they were like just doing it to I don't know, escape the actual work they were supposed to be doing.

Exactly.

You know, 'cause they're just hanging out with Henry Lee Lucas all goddamn day.

Well, the thing is about a lot of these murders is, you know, these are, a lot of these murders, like they're not coming from Milwaukee, you know, or fucking Detroit or anywhere where murder is like a daily occurrence. Like they're coming from small towns all over Texas where a fucking woman shows up with her fucking head chopped off and they're like, what do we do?

Yeah.

Like they've never investigated a murder in their lives. Yeah. No idea.

The cops in the town.

No, hell, in my town there was one and he was also the school janitor.

Yeah, so he needed his time really spent on grooming those kids.

I can't be in the street when there's all this poo poo to arrest.

Give me smaller cuffs.

Hey, Greg was all right. We had our differences, but he was all right.

I'm mopping up this crime.

You know it is a crime to pee on the toilet seat, little Jimmy. You know I could take you down. To the station and put cuffs on you and sit you with Rapist Ronnie. You want to— you remember him? He used to teach gym.

So yeah, these Texas Rangers, they're running this task force, and they're— they think that they're helping, but they're also very much enjoying being the people who are helping these cases to be solved. You know, their chests are puffed up. And, you know, the Texas Rangers is a complicated organization.

Oh, I bet.

Uh, it's, it's known to be highly racist. Extraordinarily so. It's known to be corrupt. It's known to have fucked up many things throughout the years. It's done a lot of good.

That's just the baseball team.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, they used to be owned by a war criminal.

Yeah. But Texas Rangers, they got gray hats. Yeah. Great hats.

Yeah.

Stetsons.

Love their hats.

Yeah. Two belts. Love their belts. They wear two belts. One for the pants, one for the gun.

I hate when they have the badge sewn onto the shirt.

Yeah, I don't like that either.

It's like, come on, just wear the metal badge. Texas Rangers, I like it. I like the Texas Rangers. We also, we might have some Texas dates coming up soon, but just remember that.

But if there's one, if there's one word I would use to describe a lot of the Texas, especially the Texas Rangers they interviewed in the documentary series, arrogant would be the word that I'd use. Very, very arrogant, very full of themselves, very much full of purpose. And they don't really give a shit if they know what's what. They know what's what and they're going to tell you what's what. And you know what? You ain't going to argue with me because I know Man, when he looks me in the eye, I know when he's telling the truth. Henry Lee Lucas, he was telling me the truth.

I know he's telling me the truth because the devil can't lie to an angel. But the truth— I honestly think, though, that it's a funny joke. But I do think that there is a concept here of— so Henry Lee Lucas, I feel like a lot of media and even just life in general, you see how far someone's willing to go if they see the role they're meant to take. Yeah. Right. So like Henry Lee Lucas, while he wasn't a savvy man, he did understand—

87 IQ.

87. Yeah, he was legally stupid. And so he went to understand he's getting good things out of this. Right. So he has a very easy up and down game about why he is confessing to all these things, which we basically have considered it's because he got to sit in a place where they gave him cigarettes and milkshakes. Yeah.

And he got to stay off death row.

And he got to stay off death row. And I think that's important.

And he went on field trips all the fucking time.

But then when he— Remember from the last episode, my dad saw him on one of the field trips.

Yes. But then when he took the role of the world's worst serial killers, it's very important for the police to back up the role. Because then what they then do is see— This all fosters just how powerful and wise our justice system is. 'Not only have we effectively caught one of the worst monsters to ever live, and he's now spilling his guts because we've hacked him open, and he's here, and this shows you what justice does.' Like, this is— and so they're feeding into a fantasy as well that puffs them up, and it makes them want to work. It makes them, like, act big.

And it also helps to— I think it really, for a lot of them, helped to alleviate, you know, the chaos of the '70s.

Oh yeah.

Just how horrible, you know, the murder rates were and how horrible the crime rates were in the '70s. We— I say it again and again, but we can't imagine how bad it really was in America during the 1970s. And I think with them taking Henry Lee Lucas and having him say like, I did this murder and that murder and that murder, and him saying like, I did over 300 murders, like they could rest a little easier knowing, like, okay, one of the—

like, there's one—

there's one guy. There's one guy out there that's responsible for all of this chaos. It's not like it's there's 360 guys that are responsible for all this chaos. It's, it's one guy. It's just one bad apple. So that way they can also feel a little— they can feel a little bit better about America. They can feel a little bit better about society, you know, if it's just one guy instead of, you know, 300.

And that's why I think with the 300, I actually think a lot of the program to kill stuff got— it shows the power of be careful who you pretend to be, because we are who we pretend to be. Because Henry Lee Lucas his series of confessions made somebody like Dave McGowan say, "There's no way that idiot could have done all of this in one way." So now he's now definitely sure that he was trained by the fucking government to kill because how else could that moron kill that many people for such a long period of time and such a scattered sense of the MOs? It makes him feel more correct. So in the end, it's just like idiots being idiots being idiots going all the way down the row.

Exactly. But that also, but being an idiot, I mean, remember famously Gary Ridgway's IQ is lower The thing is, his is 82.

Well, he was special. All right? And he was born just good at it. He was a prodigy.

He was, but—

It's like Babe Ruth, you know? Same IQ. Yeah.

Babe Ruth used to drink scotch and eat hot dogs for breakfast and then go— And people were like, "What a badass." And I was like, "I think he just thought it was brown water and that's what you ate." But, you know, Gary Ridgway made sense.

You know, he killed every one of his victims in one corridor. In the Pacific Northwest. Henry Lee Lucas didn't make any sense. You know, all the different ways that he killed people, or supposedly killed people, confessed to killing people. And he had— There were 20 different victim types. That doesn't happen either. You know, just nothing about Henry Lee Lucas made sense. Back to— Like, way back to this cop that's coming out from Dallas. She goes down, and she shows him all these bogus case files. And he, of course, every single one of them, he's like, "Yep, yep, yep." And they're like, "This guy's full of shit." And so, the DA from Waco brings Henry Lee Lucas up, and he's starting to see the same thing. Like, he's asking questions of Henry Lee Lucas, and he's also seeing, "Okay, this guy is absolutely full of shit." But this DA, Vic Fiesel, he is— ambitious. Like, this is a guy who's, you know, DA is the first stepping stone. Like, he's got ambitions possibly for, you know, governor. You know, they said this guy could have been president. They said, like, one guy said he was Bill Clinton before Bill Clinton.

Like, he could have got there. So he's looking for the photo op.

And President Fiesel, I don't know.

Yeah, President Fiesel.

I don't know if I like the names. Rhymes with weasel.

Yeah, he's done. He's not even making it to governor.

What if he was an artist? You could have been Fiesel the easel.

Yeah, guess what? But he's not. He's fucking not. He didn't choose that. That would have happened He chose this! He got to get help!

But yeah, he decided that Henry Lee Lucas was going to be what he made his name on. But that's the thing is in order to do that, he had to go against the Texas Rangers.

Yeah.

And the problem with going against the Texas Rangers is that at the time, the head of the Texas Rangers, the job that man had had, I can't remember his name off the top of my head, But the job he had before that was Deputy FBI Director under J. Edgar Hoover.

Oh, yeah. He had been—

COINTELPRO had been one of his big things.

I feel that he might not be a super reasonable man. He might have a strong sense of self.

Yeah, he's definitely not a man that you cross. No. He's definitely not a man that you cross. But no, this was the guy who was, you know, the programs that he was a part of, you know, all the harassment of Martin Luther King, the harassment of like John Lennon. Oh yeah, no, it's bad. All the break-ins.

RFK.

RFK, like all of the blackmail, all the horrible shit.

And so he retired to being the head of the Texas Rangers?

Yes, he went from, because I think he got, if I remember correctly, he like went, when Congress found out about COINTELPRO and they're like, this is bad, you shouldn't be doing this, he's like, He's like, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna go down to Texas.

I don't need the heat here in DC. I gotta go down where it's easy and breezy. Central Texas.

Yeah, no, if Florida is where, you know, horrible people go where no one cares, uh, Texas is where horrible people go and people are really into it.

Yeah.

Uh, so yeah, this is— this guy's the Texas— yeah, he was the head of Texas Rangers at the time. And so he basically destroyed Vic Fiesel's life.

Yes.

I mean, he— like, what did he do? Like, he killed his dog.

Yeah, they poisoned his fucking dog.

And then went through his whole house, right? Didn't he just like— see, they threw a bunch of bullshit charges on him. Yeah.

And then they just like tore his house apart.

Yeah.

Fucking— they went through his— like he said, everything in his freezer, they opened up and threw on the floor.

Because his essential job was that he would become Henry Lee Lucas's lawyer. Lawyer, right?

Isn't the idea eventually he becomes Henry Lee Lucas's lawyer?

And the goal really was to prove that he was full of shit.

Yeah, the goal was to prove that Henry Lee Lucas was full of shit.

That's so funny to go into because let me remind me, because Henry Lee Lucas, as he was going through, he ended up copping to the fact that he didn't maybe know, right? Yeah, towards the end of his life where the Henry Lee Lucas was, he was saying Like, "I don't know if I did that, actually." Well, that's the thing, is that when Vic Fiesel brought him to Waco, it's like '84, '85.

He said then that, "I didn't kill nobody." He's like, "I killed my mother and that's it." And then Fiesel was trying to hide him from the Rangers. Yeah.

Yeah, who were using him. Ah, that's not right.

Yeah, the Rangers were using him. So, well, that's what the Texas Rangers say, is that like, "Yeah, you put him in front of the Texas Rangers, he's gonna wanna please the Texas Rangers. You put him in front of a DA who said that he doesn't want him to be a murderer, and he's going to try to please him, so he's going to say he didn't do it.

I actually think that they're not necessarily wrong. I think he's just saying whatever. As long as someone's smiling at him and not going like, Henry, get out of that dumpster, he seems to just be like, he's my friend.

Also, anything to stay off of death row.

But that's the thing, is that when the Texas Rangers took Henry Lee Lucas back, he kept saying like, no, I didn't do it. I, I lied about all that stuff. Y'all just said, you know, they didn't do that at all.

No, not that. That wouldn't And then Otis Sewell shows up, "It was me! Hee-haw, hee-haw!" Who then, I guess, he just absolved everything. He just threw everything to Henry.

Yeah. And Henry Lucas, he actually, from that point forward, would say, like, "Yeah, I didn't do any of these." He said, "I killed my mother and that was it." But that was the weird thing about it, is that he would say he killed his mother and that was it. But what kicked all this off, of course, was that he— was able to take police to his— remember his, you know, his little hitchhiker Becky?

Yes.

Otis Toole's cousin, the 11-year-old girl that came along with him, is that he was able to take police directly to Becky's body.

Yeah, he definitely did.

Definitely. But that was the weird thing, is that after he talked to Vic Fiesel and came back from that, he's like, "Oh, I only killed my mother. I never killed Becky." And that was one of the incredible fucking— parts of the story later on. So like after, like Vic Fiesel, he went through hell. I mean, they hit him with a bunch of bogus charges and, you know, it turned out—

Said he was taking bribes.

Said he was taking bribes for DWI, like lighter DWI sentences.

Put him under racketeering, all that shit.

Everything. And so he went to trial for it, like fully went to trial.

Yeah, he went all and he exonerated himself.

He was found not guilty. And then he decided to have a libel case, like file a libel case against the television station that had run a big 8-part investigative report about him. And through a bunch of FOIA requests and subpoenas and all kinds of shit, he found out that the government had gone to a bunch of local lawyers in Waco, and it pressured them into testifying that Vic Fiesel had been had taken bribes from them. Like, they brought dudes from the IRS into the room and be like, so, uh, you give money to Vic Fiesel? They're like, no, I don't know about— they're like, uh, this guy here at the IRS really wants to know if you took money from Vic Fiesel. And these guys ended up testifying like, yeah, I took money from Vic Fiesel, or I gave money to Vic Fiesel, you know.

No shit.

Yeah, to get their clients off.

Yeah, to get their clients off.

Yeah.

And then they got Yeah. And they got caught. And it was also discovered that the Texas Rangers were working in conjunction with the news channel where the news channel had showed up and taken care— like the news channel had met the Texas Rangers at a hotel and the Texas Rangers had given them all these bogus files on Vic Fiesel and said like, go after him. And they ran this big 11-part series.

Yeah. Like once a week they would do like a special on the news about something evil that Vic Fiesel was doing.

Yeah. And then after that, once the charges were brought up, like the grand jury, the only evidence the grand jury was shown to indict Vic Fiesel for bribery and racketeering was the fucking 11-part news report that was done on him.

Oh man.

And so 5 months they were there.

That's all they really showed him.

Yeah. 5 months.

Alter, help Henry Lee Lucas. That's the fucking problem, Vic. That's the fucking problem, buddy. You should have used that for anybody else? Why him? Why this?

Well, I don't know if he was wanting help. Like, it was, I think it was a publicity, honestly. I think it was a publicity stunt that got outta hand. Oh, it sounds like it. He wanted the photo op and he wanted the, he wanted to be able to say like, I'm going up against corruption.

I beat the, the Rangers.

Well, I'm going up against corruption in Texas. I'm rooting out corruption in Texas.

And he, you know, he stumbled onto something crazy.

Yeah.

But he's also 32 years old at the time.

Yes. Yeah.

Like, he is just, he's a baby. Yeah, man.

He doesn't know what the fuck. He's a 32-year-old baby. I know how that is. I'm just a 40-year-old child myself playing with my wiener, pissing my pants.

Imagine taking on the fucking FBI and the Texas Rangers at 32.

10 years ago. Where were you 10 years ago? Just imagine.

I could see me doing that, like, on, like, taking on both, like, from a 7-Eleven. You know what I mean? Like, being chained to a fucking Slurpee machine.

And so Vic Fiesel, of course, he wins the libel suit and wins the largest libel settlement in history. It's in the Guinness Book of World Records.

That's crazy.

What is it, $58 million?

Yeah, buddy.

$58 million. But that's from the news channel and the news reporter. He wasn't allowed to— you're not allowed to sue the Rangers or the FBI.

Oh, good for them.

Yeah, they have governmental immunity.

Oh, that's good for them.

Yeah, they can totally destroy your life. And can't do anything about it.

Well, that's why we're big fans here of the Texas Rangers. And just so you know, you get 10% off your speeding ticket at the Texas Rangers website if you can put in the code lastpod90.

And so Vic Fiesel, after he goes through all of this shit, like, he resigns from the DA's office. Like, I think he did, like, especially after you get that paycheck.

Why am I putting myself through this?

Oh my God, he made himself an injury law firm. Yeah, he literally said, fuck this, I'm just gonna go back to broken legs and fucking getting your vagina burnt.

Well, he decided that he was gonna represent Henry Lee Lucas for a little while, like, and I think he did it pro bono. Uh, I mean, of course, because what— I mean, what's he gonna get paid in, stories?

Milkshakes?

Yeah.

Oh man, by the time Big Fiesel came around, he only had 3 or 4 of them left.

He's like, yeah, honestly, if you could just keep it to the soup, that'd be pretty good. Can we stop by Hell and Hardy?

That's the amazing thing about Henry Lucas. When he got to be an old man, he looked like— you know how some old men look like massive babies? He does. He looks like a huge toothless baby.

He looks like a shaved Care Bear.

It really is gross. He's Winnie the Ooh. That's what he looks like. He is gross. And it's hard because, I mean, honestly, even in— I think in jail they get you dentures.

You know, it's funny, but the middle of Texas, I don't know what they give you.

What is it about some people just—

well, you went to Huntsville right after that.

Can I ask— Side Stories, lpotl@gmail.com— why do some people just choose not to get dentures? Yeah, and just go full-on mouthbone to mouthbone.

They could be very uncomfortable.

Yeah, and you know, maybe if they weren't so lazy, they'd still have teeth. That's true.

I don't think— yeah, unless you've lost your due to like some form of accident, poisoning. Yeah, I guess drug use. But if they're just popping out, man, that's not good.

He was concerned with—

no, he was not. No, no, he wasn't either. Because you know who didn't complain?

Otis.

Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, Otis just knew that teeth were just getting in the way of dick. He was— that's why he was a fucking proper man.

Oh my God.

Well, that's the thing is that, uh, Vic Fiesel, he got to be Henry Lee Lucas' defense attorney, and they were eventually contacted by a woman who claimed to be Becky Powell, supposedly the little girl that Henry Lee Lucas murdered all those years before. And since Henry Lee Lucas had, you know, been proven a liar on so many of his confessions, it seemed like, "Well, maybe he lied about killing Becky as well. So, let's check this woman out." They go down, you know, Vic Fiesel interviews this woman. She's very convincing. She knows all these details about Henry Lee Lucas's childhood, and she knows all these details about Becky Powell's childhood, about her relatives, her house, everything. And then they bring her to Texas, and there's this massive— Like, they bring CNN in to talk to this woman. And saying, like, they bring her in because she does a lie detector test. Test, and the guy who runs the test is like, this is Becky Powell, 100%. They bring CNN, huge deal, massive deal. And so Vic Fiesel figures, I'm gonna make another run at the Texas Rangers, like, I'm gonna make them look like fucking idiots with this woman.

And then the Texas Rangers say, like, all right, let's put her under oath, see what she says. And when he said— when he heard put her under oath, he's like, Let's double-check this one.

Let's all think about this for a second. Are we really gonna make this official? Don't we just like planning? Yeah. Don't we just like the meetings? That's really why I even email, so I could talk to you, Sheriff Anderson.

So he sits Becky down for— or quote-unquote Becky down for a real serious conversation. And while he's talking to Becky, trying to get her to tell the truth, truth, his wife goes through Becky's luggage and finds a big stack of letters from Henry Lee Lucas.

Now, who's the real detective here? Seems like that's right, it's real detective work. They should— I think that's how you find out, because it's hard. We, we keep threatening it, but we— I've just rekindled it up. Like, the idea of professional liars, like people who lie even if it hurts you, are fascinating to me. Like, the people that do it just straight up for essentially attention. Yeah, like, I don't know why. Like, just stick yourself into the story. Like, there's something about— maybe it's because, like, maybe you look at Henry Lee Lucas, maybe it's like you think he reminds you of grandpa, or he reminds you of something. There's just something about him that you want him— you think he's cute.

Nah, when he was confessing, he didn't look like grandpa. He, he looked like uncle. Oh yeah, he looked like uncle, Uncle Henry, but not in a good way.

He had Kevin Kline hair for a while. You see him?

He had very wavy hair.

He had kind of a Chris Christopherson kind of look. He had a funny dead mouth.

He did.

He did.

Well, there was a really interesting part of that documentary that was— it talked about his, like, what psychiatrists said about him and what they found out about Henry Lucas mentally and what his mental illnesses were. And they said that there's a concept called confabulation, where people, some people that suffer from this, have gaps in their memory, like massive gaps in their memory. Can't do anything about it, can't see anything. Like, they just have these massive gaps. And what they do is they fill in the gaps with stories. They fill in gaps with, you know, fantasy that comes from themselves. They'll fill in the gaps, like, especially like if they're wanting to please someone. If someone is telling them a story, they'll fill in the gaps to please the person they're talking to.

Of course.

Because that makes that other person happy. And they said, like, Henry Henry Lee Lucas's rate of confabulation was off the charts. They said it was like just— They said they'd never seen anything, like seen a person like that, where they just pop in the details. And that's why he was so convincing for so long for these people. And that's the thing, is that he had that convincing aura about him. But the Texas Rangers, like, they— I don't think they— The men— I think the men that were really involved in this, and the sheriffs— There was Texas Rangers, there was also sheriffs. There was one sheriff Sheriff that, you know, had fucking 5 murders in his county that were just sitting there on his conscience that, you know, couldn't do anything about him at all. Just 5 fucking murders in a place where, like, murders did not happen.

Yeah, yeah. What do you do?

And so Henry Lee Lucas became like— they became friends because Henry Lee Lucas would confess. He confessed to all of these murders. You know, and it came out that one of the murders was not a murder at all. The woman had a seizure while she was driving. Oh yeah. So that doesn't count. She had a seizure while she was driving and she drove her car into a fucking quarry or something like that.

Yeah. Because they found her body in the water.

Yeah.

They found her body in the water and they found the necklace that she was wearing. And that was the thing is that that's how they knew that the cops were feeding him information.

Is—

and I mean, this is just one example out of a dozen of them catching cops feeding him information— is that this woman had a seizure while she was driving and drove into a fucking lake. And Henry Lee Lucas was able to describe the necklace that she was wearing that day, which there was—

Would've been completely impossible.

Completely impossible for him to know what that woman was wearing when she had a seizure and drove into a fucking quarry. Like, there's no— And that happened happen again and again.

And he was probably on the other side of the country at that point.

Yeah, I think he was in Tallahassee.

Yeah. And it's just like, I feel all this time where he's like claiming where he's doing murders and he doesn't remember what he did on those days, he's probably just on the side of the road drinking with all his tools.

He literally was just getting cornholed, man. He was just getting turned over and over again by that horrible, horrible man. And the two of them together, you You know what? Love's never horrible. And I have to remind— I have to remember that love— if there's love there, and there's so much violence, yeah, that we celebrate— Marcus celebrates— that Marcus celebrates—

it's not celebrated.

The fact that love can't be celebrated— yeah, this is the thing. But the fact that we don't like—

because this—

that's what this should all be about. This entire series should be about Otis Toole finding Henry Lee Lucas this and what that was like for him.

I mean, when you see videos of the two of them together talking, the way they look at each other—

they're the only— the— it's almost like the Eiffel Tower, the dead girl next to each other, you know what I mean? In a way, it's the only way that bond comes.

Oh yeah, it's like two busboys who get too close. You're like, we're going to have to fire one of these guys.

Yeah, yeah, they're plotting, they're plotting now. See, on his tour, what I also like When I was watching a bunch of interviews of him, he sits like Maggie, like Dame Maggie Grace. Like, he sits like what's her name?

Maggie Smith.

She's dead. Yeah, yeah, but he sits like her. Yeah, she's fucking dead. You know who—

does that really look—

yep, she confessed. He came back from the dead.

Killed Kris Kristofferson, killed the guy from Beverly Hills Cop that just—

Taggart! He killed Taggart!

He killed Taggart!

Yeah, yeah. Pete Rose died? Yeah, without his final vindication about how cheating is okay.

Speaking of sports, Tennessee Titans 6, Miami Dolphins 3.

Ooh, Otis Toole is losing big time.

Boring fucking game.

2 minutes left in the second— wow, 2 minutes left in the second quarter and it's 6-3 between a team that's 0-3 and a team that's 1-2.

Goddamn, what a hard Monday Night Football. What is— what does it come to? Oh, you kind of look like Taggart, Rob.

Yeah, you, you do look a little bit like Taggart, like a young Taggart.

I don't know if this is a compliment.

It is a compliment. It is.

It's very much— Family House Cop 1 Taggart.

Yeah, I'm telling you, we get you a tan suit, we'll see.

Yeah, would you dress him up like a little police detective?

Actually, if we ever need to pretend like someone's a police detective, it's gonna be you. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, hey, I'm Eddie Murphy.

That's right.

Well, the big thing that came out of all of this, as far as like Henry Lee Lucas goes, is that really like the nail in the coffin for Henry Lee Lucas being the most prolific serial killer of all time, uh, was the advent of DNA testing.

Oh sure, you mean proof? Yes, yeah, proof and evidence.

Yeah, sure, because there was not a single bit of forensic evidence to tie him to any murder. 'Cause another thing, going back to Dave McGowan for a bit and the program to kill people, the only person whose death sentence he commuted while he was governor was Henry Lee Lucas.

Oh, and Osama bin Laden.

Yeah. Hey, we just trained him and paid him and gave him stuff and taught him how to be really good at what he did. That's all we did. That's all we did. That's all we did. That's it.

We're gonna let him do it.

And provided incredible aviation schools in Florida for his team. Honestly, it's huge.

Yeah. But the reason why George W. Bush commuted his sentence, he actually held a press conference, was because the evidence against Henry Lee Lucas for the crime that he was convicted for, the Orange Sox killing, the one that— that was the one. The one that he was, uh, sent to death row for. The evidence was not there. All they had was his confession, and that was it. And it was actually provable that he was in Florida at the time of the Orange Sox killing. There was like a— I, I think with that one, I think it was— it might have been a paycheck or something like that.

Yes, that was the one with the paycheck that pretty much showed that he could not have physically been where where the murder happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so he did sort of—

but that—

but he did it, I guess, right? I mean, you know, of all the people. But, you know, Henry Lee Lucas, again, he's just sitting there just, you know, Bush is running for president at the time.

He wants to look like a good guy.

He was just about—

someone tipped him off.

Of all the people to look like a good guy, there's so many other people.

Yeah, Carla Fay. You could have pardoned Carla Fay. Talk—

we talked about this.

Uh, But the blackpilled folk, the Dave McGowan folk, the programmed to kill folk, say that the reason why George W. Bush commuted his sentence was because Henry Lee Lucas worked for the government.

Yeah, he was CIA. But guess what? If they wanted to help Henry Lee Lucas, you know what they would have done? They would have shot him in the back of the head 30 years ago. That's what they would have done. They would have shot him in the back of the head. Because guess what? If there's one thing that that man says, I love a strawberry milkshake, but it doesn't make you a good assassin. I feel like there's something about him being probably one of the most flippable people that ever— he's like Trump, where you go, you— every movement, every— he believes the last thing anybody says to him. Adas Toul, he thought Adas Toul was the sexiest man in the world. That's who you want to work for you? He looked at Adas Toul and he was like, yes please, I want two slices of it, come in my mouth.

Is Adas Toul still alive?

No, he died in '96. He died in '96. 46.

Yeah, he died at 49 of cirrhosis. And he died, man, it is funny. He just is such a fancy Southern mentally handicapped woman. I've never seen— he looks like if what's her name from fucking Gone with the Wind, like the big hat and stuff, if she was special needs like that. That's how he sits, like he's got like a big fucking like lacy— what's that, umbrella? What do they call parasol?

Parasol.

Yes, I do declare I will kiss a snake. Yes, I knew I was gay when I was an embryo. I slid out my mama's pussy and I said, ew.

Henry Lee Lucas. Eventually they started testing testing all of these DNA samples that they found, you know, all these DNA samples that have been around for, you know, 30 years. And they started testing them against prisoner databases in Texas and various other states. And they just started getting hits. Just hit after hit after hit. You know, and really famous cases too. Like big ones that people made a really big deal about. When Henry Lee Lucas's sentence was commuted, there was a a group, they called themselves VOLT, like Victims of Lucas Tragedies. Oh wow. And they were like very much like they were pissed off at George W. Bush for commuting his sentence. Like, this guy needs to fucking die, he killed my sister, he killed my mother, so on and so forth.

Yeah, we've already propped up this whole thing that he's quote unquote murdered hundreds and hundreds of people. Now you're saying sorry?

Yeah, there were literally people like family members who had appointments to watch him die.

Yes, of course. Yes, very much So, and that—

it's so hard, they never rebook. So hard. COVID pushed so many executions, they're still, they're still making them up. It's so hard. 30% recidivism.

They're going to bring these back outdoors.

So these, uh, people, like these, these poor people, like they had to be told like, hey, so "Ooh, yeah, it wasn't Henry Lee Lucas. It was actually this other guy. But we caught this other guy." Sometimes they would catch them, not every time. But that would— But they would have to say, like, "No, it wasn't Henry Lee Lucas." And then when one woman, like her sister, when it was said, like, "No, it wasn't Henry Lee Lucas," like, the other people started looking into their own family members' cases. And they started seeing, like, this one woman saw— It's like it was kind of like with the necklace. She started reading through Henry Lee Lucas's confession, and she saw that he said that the woman, her mother had a watch bracelet on when he killed her. And then she remembered, "No, we told the police that she was wearing the watch bracelet when she left that day." But they had actually found the watch bracelet in a jewelry box, like, a couple years later.

So it shows, it's a part of the reason why we talk about a lot on Last Podcast that serial murder, it's extremely difficult difficult to prosecute and put together a case. Yes, because it shows the gap and how hard it is to figure out a quote-unquote motiveless crime, because 95% of homicides are done for direct, specific, practical reasons, and they're done by people that know you. It is such a small percentage of people that get murdered by somebody that they don't know, and it's an even smaller percentage that it was done by a CIA trained assassin with 4 teeth. Like, it's legitimately, like, it's extremely small. So it's funny in that way. They were trying to— it actually speaks just much forward. It was because it wasn't one man killing 300 people, it was 300 people killing one person each.

Much worse.

And it's much, it's much more difficult to do. It also just shows how many times, you know, we— how many times does somebody kill somebody kill somebody badly and like get it out of their system? How many times that happened? How many times is like they don't become a serial killer? They're like Eddie Kemper talked about when he first killed, he was so disturbed at first at how difficult it was that it challenged him. It challenged his, his urges. And so like you kind of wonder how many people are straight up just serial killers wannabes and they walk around and they kill somebody and they mutilate their corpse and at the end of it they're They're like, and this isn't either, you know what I mean? They're like, God, I thought it was going to be golfing, I thought it was going to be mandalas, but it's not, and it's not this either, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And then they just leave and they leave town. They're just some drifter, all the trucker killers, all the shit.

Well, there was actually one of those guys. It was exactly what you're talking about, that they found him through DNA. They found, you know, it was semen in the panties and they tested his DNA and there was a hit on The, uh, yeah, I don't know why, like, you're trying so hard to not laugh right now.

It was just something about semen in the panties. I also, I mean, I know it's awful.

It just came out too smoothly or something.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I heard it.

I was, I was, I was, I laughed in my head. Henry sniffled.

I don't look into me, Father. Don't put the semen in the panty.

That's what it is, I think. Yeah. When the semen in the panty, you know, You got to do the Bill Cosby accent.

I know, there's just no other way to—

there's no—

yeah, yeah, there's just no other way to say it.

Underwear.

Underwear.

Pants.

The pants. The word panties, it's just—

it shouldn't be.

I can go about it documentary, and that's just— that's what they said over and over again.

Semen in the panties. Semen in the panties. Semen in the panties.

I can't wait Can't wait for that, someone to clip that out and make it an EDM song.

So through that evidence, evidence, they were able to find a guy who had gone to prison for something else. And you know, in Texas, when you go to prison, you know, they do the swab and they put you in the database. And they brought him in saying like, hey, you need to do a meeting with your parole officer. And turns out, hey, here's a couple of the cops. And so they start talking to him about it, and the guy is, like, visibly starting to get— like, once he knows what he's there for, he's, like, visibly upset. Because what the crime had been is that he— these kids had run out of gas, girl and boyfriend, and they were walking down the road. This guy picks them up, he drives them down the road. The kid tries running, he shoots the boy, uh, and then he—

6 times in head 6 times in the head.

And then he rapes and shoots the girl. And this guy was just fucking mortified. Like, he was— it was like weighing on him. It was the only time he'd done it. He's the only— it was in— it was 30 years before. It was like 1978 or something. It was 30 years before.

And he was like, he probably fantasized about it for so long, and then it quote unquote fell in his lap, and then he did it, and then he was like, like, oh no, I'm not—

this isn't—

yeah, like, this isn't me.

This is a very bad thing to do. This feels really bad. Yeah, I don't like this.

But that's not good. That's good.

That's good.

But you gotta stop. You gotta think about that early.

Before you kill the two children.

Yeah, that's what I'd say.

Yeah, you gotta go ahead.

That's me though. I think about stuff.

You just gotta go ahead and decide, like, okay, I know, like, you're not gonna— let's not roll the dice.

Yeah.

On whether or not it's gonna feel good.

Play Buck Hunter. Like that'll get it outta your system maybe. I think that that's like one of those things that could help.

I wonder how many people are alive because of Buck Hunter today.

I mean, just ask me.

Yeah.

You know how many people that I haven't killed?

The thing that really disturbed me about that story or the semen in the panties was the, was the fact that her father drove by the two of 'em walking on the highway. Yeah. And then he, he didn't think anything of it cuz he didn't recognize it as his daughter. But later on he realized, was that he did drive past them.

Extremely sad, Eddie.

Yes.

And a great way to end.

Well, I will— I'll end it on maybe a better note.

Okay.

Actually, I don't know if this is a better note, but it's, uh, they so far have found 20 cases that Henry Lee Lucas confessed to that have now been linked to other people through DNA. No, I think that's good news.

That's 20 out of 200?

20 out of, I think, yeah, between 200 and 300, I think, is how many cases they actually closed.

But in terms of closure rates, that's not too bad.

That's crazy.

20%. Yeah, 20%. But it's just, yeah, but that's just murders. That's just hits that they fucking did. But the vast majority of the Henry Lee Lucas cases have not been reopened and never will be. They cleared them. They never will be.

In 2022, the average clearance rate for homicides of police departments across the country is 52.3%.

Yep.

Wow.

Straight up half. Half get solved. So 20%, I mean, especially for something that from fucking 40 years ago based off the lies of a buck-toothed—

but that's the thing, you know, they're just running DNA. Yep, that's it. It's not even there. They wasn't even investigating.

And wait till we get to Chimera DNA. If we find out if we actually have only one set of DNA or not, we'll find that out soon, probably at some point.

Yeah, that's so exciting.

Patreon.com/lastpodcastonthelift. Um, I don't know if that serves you here. But then you go to TikTok and Instagram, got LP on the left, you see your shit. We got— this is now available all over the world.

Yes, yes, welcome, check it out.

Go see. Hello Istanbul, hello Japan, hello North Korea. Yes, we're now doing this in North Korea.

7 listeners in North Korea.

It's been huge, man. One's named Kim. It's actually pretty amazing. And go to lastpodcastontheleft.com to check out our live shows. Watch us live. We're funnier even there.

You can go to lastpodcastontheleft.com for all of our dates. We got Los Angeles, Brooklyn, London, and Iceland coming up. C-C-C-C. Come on out, check us out.

And listen to The Brighter Side when you get a chance, my other show on The Last Podcast Network with the great Amber Nelson.

He's working. He's working and twerking. Listen to No Doubt.

Oh, Lone Dogs in Space. Hell yeah, brother.

This is the Nook Dog.

We're working hard on the new series. They have part 1 coming out real soon.

In space, no one can hear you howl.

Yeah, because most dogs die up there. They burn up in the atmosphere.

Yeah, they all did. Like, it's a very sad story.

Hail Satan.

Hail game.

Hail Chris Christopherson.

Thank you for enjoying the last update on the left. You can find other shows that you'll enjoy from The Last Podcast Network on lastpodcastonthelift.com.

See you there.