Transcript of Episode 609: Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell - The Doomsday Murders Part I - Beyond The Veil

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This is the last hot mess on the left.

That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? You don't do that.

No. Oh. Oh, yeah.

It's refreshing. Yeah.

Oh, when I sit down, definitely.

Yeah, that's.

Oh, I'm sitting. Oh, I'm not sitting now.

My butt's touching something.

Oh, God, I'm sitting so hard right now. Oh, God, my butt is hard. Marcus. Is that cancer? Do I have hard butt disease? Is this the beginning of me turning into stone?

Yeah.

All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, you get. You need to go and get your butt massaged a little bit and then you'd be able to get out over your stone disease.

See, I don't know how to do that, like, on a table, because they do work the back legs and I do wish that they'd manhandle my flaps more.

Yeah.

But the problem is that I feel like the more I ask, they say, go like north. Go north. That it seems like I'm asking to be sex.

No, that's the thing is that you can't actually ask for it. You just have to find a massage therapist who does it anyway and then you stick with that person.

Remember in New Zealand, the massage. I mean, I don't know about you, but my lady was like. It was like 20% rubbing my ass.

Yeah, that was different. That was something that was somebody special, that was somebody new.

Well, that's more European. Because I'm a bit of a massage connoisseur. I love massages. And when you get outside of the United States, they get a little less afraid. Regulated to get near the, you know, the private parts.

Yeah, yeah. Because your butt is the most European part of you.

And it's got lots of muscle in there. You know, there's lots of going on in there. It's connected to the legs and all that, you know, to be worked.

The glutes.

Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of glutes, Today's episode makes me long for the Catholic church and the simple honesty of the leaders of the Catholic Church. Because you know what's nice about Catholic church? Near priests. And they're. They know they're evil.

Yeah.

They act like it.

Yeah.

And they're super confident about it.

Yeah.

They don't need to pretend to be humble because they got big hats covered with diamonds on.

Yeah.

And they spend their fucking money.

They're spending their money. They're not just sitting on it like a bunch of fucking Mormons are waiting for a quote, unquote rainy day which is gonna kill the rest of us. And then they're gonna spend their money.

Yeah. Buy your scepters. Buy your big hat. Buy bigger hats.

Do. Guys, it's not coming. Jesus Christ is not coming back to America. It sucks here.

Welcome to the last podcast on the left, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Marcus Parks.

What?

Really?

Yeah. After all this time.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's Marcus Parks. Nice to meet you. Here with Henry Zabrowski.

I'm fucking angry today.

Yeah.

I'm angry. I'm full of it. I can't wait to come for these people and. Come on. These people.

Yeah.

And I also want to say this whole. This whole series is going out to our ex mos. We love you, Love you and our soon to be exmos. I want to say if you somehow found yourself here right now, this is your signal to get the living fuck out.

Yeah, man.

Ditch the backpack. Get a shirt with a color. You know, it's gonna be a big day for you.

Seriously. Have a cup of coffee. I dare you to walk into a Dunkin Donuts right now. Get a cup of coffee, See what happens. You will be having visions beyond the veil. Like this. You're gonna be doing this already. It's called a cheat cult. It's called experiencing something.

How do they hit the street so hard without a cup of coffee? God.

It's the power of Jesus and Soda sugar mode. They love sugar. And we also have the inquisitive Ed Larson.

Now what is Mormon? No, I know what it is. It's stupid.

Correct. I just said also again, hooked up. This is not going to be super friendly to the Mormon religion. No, but we love all of you still. But you, it's important for you to hear this because we even just like with Scientology, we have seen the beginning of Mormonism and now we are seeing what I just straight up call the middle of Mormonism. We are in the middle of Mormonism and that's very interesting because we get to see a religion grow up and turn into whatever evil form it's going to in front of our own eyes.

Well, it's not like Mormonism started off as a paragon of fucking virtue. No Mormonism series. Like there was a lot of really horrible shit with Joseph Smith. With Brigham Young, the shit obsessed Brigham Young, if you remember. Oh, I don't know if you know this but Brigham Young, you know, the guy who succeeded Joseph Smith obsessed with shit.

Oh really?

Yeah, talked about it all the time.

Now you get me horny.

You're kind of guy now.

Now correct me if I'm wrong now Joseph Smith had his followers. He's walking across America and he shows up to Salt Lake City and he's like ah, is Nevada.

Yeah. Actually I don't think Joseph Smith made it to Salt Lake City.

That was bringing me on. Really bring him on. Brought him over there and then that was considered. If you do go across those salt flats, it is very interesting. It's very beautiful over there. The natural arches is extremely beautiful. I do see why they would. They think that Zion would be there but they were wrong.

It's interesting that they're so obsessed with the end of the world and like that lake is evaporating and the gasses are going to kill all of them.

It's almost like it's a feature or not above. And they can't waiting for the rest of us to die.

Well why are we talking about Mormonism? It's because today we're going to be talking about the two biggest Mormons in true crime today. Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow. Chad Dabel and Lori Valo were two self styled Mormon end times prophets who created and lived in a fantasy world in which they did personal battle with the forces of darkness on a daily basis. But in the pursuit of this personal war, Chad and Laurie involved themselves in at least four murders. These murders were all committed in the year 2019. And you may very well Remember the months long search for Lori Valo's two children that ended when her kids bodies were found buried on Chad Daybell's Idaho property.

And they are now. Now we know Lori Valo has been convicted three consecutive life sentences for the deaths of her children and not yet Tammy Daybell. They are now. That's going to be the next trial.

Chad Dabell is. He's going to get charged with Tammy Val. Tammy D's death.

But now Lori Valo is going to trial for Tammy D death and she's.

On trial for Charles Vallow's death.

It's all fucking mixed. It's all just this. But Lori Valo is, she's representing herself.

So it is a one currently today like currently she is representing herself in her murder trial.

Oh wow, that's very impressive.

She is very certain she is correct. And Lori Valo is probably one of the more frightening human beings we will cover on last podcast on the left.

Now when they bury their children in Idaho, do you think they were just fertilizing their potatoes?

Yes.

Hey man, that's what they get so big.

Well, Chad and Laurie were also involved with the murder of each other's spouses. Murders committed so they could be free to marry each other. This however, is no simple tawdry tale of two middle aged losers who erase their families so they can run off together unfettered. Although that is certainly an element at play here. Mostly the story of Chad and Laurie is what happens when people let their fantasies take over their entire lives, encompassing their beliefs and worldview to such a point where they were able to snuff out the lives of their children and spouses with all the emotion we'd use in making a decision that might affect a karma score in a video game. Now this tale is a very 21st century flavor of true crime story because Chad Dabel and Lori Valow were both Mormon media figures, albeit very niche ones. And neither one of them would have gained much traction if not for the Internet. For Chad's part, he was an author and public speaker who wrote absolutely awful novels based on end times beliefs and memoirs about near death experiences that gave him superpowers. These writings only took off though, however slightly because of online Mormon doomsday prepper forums.

And I cannot stress enough how bad these books are. I have attempted to read several Chad Daybell books and I will not finish them. No, I refuse to finish them.

Wow. And you finished David Icke?

Yeah, yeah. You finished multiple L. Ron Hubbard books.

I actually think that Chad D is might be the least talented person to ever live. He might not have a single creative ability.

Lori Valo, meanwhile, was one of our new media brethren. She was a podcaster.

Yay. This is the first podcast based crime. Wow. It's true.

Yeah, it is. And she regularly discussed being in contact with the Mormon angel Moroni on her podcast and claimed on her show to have been chosen by God as the future leader of the 144,000 Mormons who would survive the apocalypse after the events of the book of Revelation came to pass.

They and also who books Moroni? How do we get him?

Is it still out? Can you listen to it?

It's very difficult to find. I went scouring the Internet to find all of their podcasts. They've mostly been taken down. There's bits and pieces. Mostly what I have found is videotape of the their various presentations at conferences, like preparing a people and of these other things that we will get to that and. But guess what, Eddie, you're not missing anything. They fucking suck.

Yeah, they're the worst.

Suck at talking, they suck at humor, they suck at talk. They're the worst group of fuckfaces to exist. How did anybody get involved with this?

Moments ago, Henry was like, I'm gonna be. I gotta chill out. I gotta be calm today.

That's not even to mention how awful the producing is on the podcast. I mean, the sound quality is dog shit.

Yeah. But also, but also I will bring up quickly one tiny little weird theology thing very quickly is that the 144,000 can be interpreted in different ways. There's one way, which was the Joseph Smith OG way, which is the idea that 144,000 people were what were going to be left. Right? But what these guys have interpreted as is in terms. Also their mentor interprets it as is the 144,000 are the generals and the captains of the Mormon army that will live through the turbulations and they will go and they will gather all of the Mormons that are left after everybody's fucking dead and they will have also have special powers.

Mormon. More like less man.

Yeah, don't do this. It's more than because you get more power.

Now, I know we're hitting the M word a lot here, but from what I've seen in the media coverage, particularly the Netflix series Sins of My Mother, the central role Mormonism plays in the story is glossed over all too often. As one man who fell into Chad and Lori's sphere of influence put it, Chad Dabel and Lori Vallow basically Turned Mormonism into a tabletop rpg complete with weapons, magical powers, stats and clear enemies to battle and defeat.

Now you're coming against RPGs. I play a Mormon RPG, but they are. This is larping.

Yeah, no, it is larping, but it's larping combined with RPGs. I mean stats, you can't argue with stats and you can't argue with magical powers.

You're right, but it's the LARPing with the involved because it's like, it's crazy. It's so hard to just roll a natural 20 when you're trying to smother your children. Because that's what you have to get. You have to roll in that 20 so that you can properly sink them into the hole so that nobody can see. That makes a perfect flat lay. Like, that's like. If you hit a critical success, that's huge. But yeah, they're just doing it.

Sorry, I fell asleep.

Soon as tabletop games get involved.

Yeah, you mentioned the words natural roll to ed and it just. Where do you go when they're great?

Ham and cheese on them, a little mayo and mustard, maybe a pickle. Who knows?

I love rolls. Unbelievable.

Well, in a way, the world where Chad and Lori lived reminds me of how the ancient Greeks and Romans looked at existence. Where gods and evil spirits were believed to influence and interact with daily life. Magic was considered real and displeasing. The gods was met with swift and harsh judgment. For example, Chad and Laurie's most infamous belief was that the world was populated with 20,000 so called zombies. People whose bodies had been overtaken and their souls bounced to limbo by dark spirits. And the only way to save these innocent souls was to literally kill the zombie. Now the zombies were usually just a convenient way to other eyes. People who disagreed with Chad and Laurie or people who stood in their way. But when the fantasy took over completely, Chad and Laurie used the zombie belief as justification for killing Lori's children and both of their spouses.

Because that's what you understand, Marcus. They're not dead.

Just call me America.

You're not dead. They're not dead. They're in heaven. Yeah, of course they're busy and they're working.

Have they got their own planets yet?

No, they can't. They're fucking gross. It's a baby. It's like a lady gross.

Yeah, yeah.

She can't be in charge of a planet that too emotionally insecure. It takes the stable nature of a man, a grown boomer, to really run a planet correctly.

Yeah, especially Uranus.

Yeah, a lot of boomers love Uranus.

Yeah.

They're fucking you, huh?

Oh, man, I love it. Fill me up.

Yeah.

Make me your jelly donut.

It shouldn't be red.

Yeah, well, you're right. Boston cream pie.

Yeah. Now the zombie thing sounds, in a word, stupid. Yes. Something created by a two person echo chamber trying to find justification for murder. But Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell were not a two person operation. Because of Chad's writings and the talks he gave at conferences. Chad actually had a fair amount of followers and both he and Lori were well respected names in the Mormon neo fundamentalist movement. Technically, Chad was the leader of an almost, but not quite cult. And the people who listened to what he had to say were not around when it came to what they believed and how they lived their life.

The slow roll up of capital M straight down the line. Mormon to fringe. Mormon is not that far. No, it is very. It is. You can get over there very easily then. Capital M. Mormon is trying to make themselves now more reasonable, more approachable, more open to modern conventions, modern ideas.

Well, that's how the Mormon Church has always been. That's how they change. They change with the times.

Yes, but these guys, these guys want to roll, roll, roll, roll, roll it back. And they want to roll it back in a way that also never really existed. They want to rol. Never was. And the. But really the only way to do that again is if all the rest of us are dead.

Yeah, well, Chad had a whole crew of neo fundamentalist Mormons who lived lives primarily informed by survivalist doctrine, New age gibberish, millenarianism, and most dangerously, the belief that anyone not on their side had fallen under the influence of Satan. That, of course, is their right as Americans to believe whatever they want.

Yeah, that's the best part.

Yeah, of course it's in the Constitution. But the problem here is the neo fundamentalist part.

Yeah, it always is.

These people were heavily influenced by the old Mormon concept of blood atonement, in which a Mormon is not only allowed to kill an enemy of the church, but is justified in that action because killing the victim gives them a chance at redemption because they can no longer sin on earth. Put differently, Daybell's concept of killing so called zombies to save the souls of the people whose bodies have been overtaken by dark spirits. That's just the fundamentalist Mormon belief of blood atonement wrapped up in modern.

Oh, so it worked out and they're free and nothing bad happened to them.

Yeah, like Henry said, They're in heaven right now.

They're busy. Which is a very Mormon thing. Yeah, if you're in. If you're. You can't never be. It's not like heaven's for relaxing. No, heaven's just a work release program. You go up to heaven and work. Because remember, in the Mormon world too, and specifically in the Chad Day Bell world, there's no such thing as death. You just move into another place. And there's ghosts all around us that are both sometimes physical, sometimes not. There's demons, ghost, there's helpers, angels, disembodied spirits, non body spirits. And then they all live in, hanging out, having a great time. So, yeah, like, yeah, they, they didn't kill their children. They sent their children to college in space. So huge for them. That's the idea that they are. That's how they slowly massage the extremism in. Especially because Mormonism as a whole looks all innocent and it looks all silly and goofy until you pop the top and then you realize you're all fucking insane.

Mm.

Mm.

Now, I know all this might lead you to assume that Chad Dabel is a charismatic Svengali who brainwashed his followers into committing four murders in his name. But I'll tell you right now that this could not be further from the truth.

He makes Marshall Applewhite looks like Elvis, the least charismatic human to ever exist. If I'm ever in this same room as Chad Daybell, I'm going to punch him in his fourth chin so hard. I hate that Winnie the Pooh motherfucker so much.

He's got one of those heads that's as wide as his neck, which is good for swallowing his own bullshit.

Right? No, he's the thumb. He's that he is a thumb in human form. He's pathetic, he's cowardly. He's a marshmallow of a man. And after watching his halting, awkward speeches, the only thing I can possibly attribute his rise to is the obviously low standards Mormon survivalist community.

It's also what they take to be rock star behavior in Mormon communities, which I've noticed as we'll get to. This is a very deeper story. This is even deeper story is that the Mormons, the Mormon people like somebody that's humble.

Yes.

They like a sickly prophet. They love a going into and just hearing a man warble in a high tremulous voice, just. And I knew that things were different. I saw him drink a full Coca Cola and I knew the next thing he would be is fornicating with a man in the jungle. And he say they are. Because if you listen to them talk, it's a very specific style. They even talk about it in some great podcasts I was listening to. They called it ga Speech, which they. They're one of their big topics. Yeah, it was called Mormon Stories. They're great. They're. They're very dry, very good. And they talked about like, there's. It's called ga voice. So Mormons love somebody who takes a long, plotting, thoughtful, soft. Kill me. Yeah.

Well, people who fell under Chad's influence were not really following Chad himself, really. They were following his ideas and his philosophy, which thrust each one of his followers into a world of demons and monsters. That was far more exciting and interesting than being, say, a thrice divorced hairdresser, which was Lori Valo's life before she met Chad. But speaking of Lori, while Chad Daybell played a significant role in all four murders, I think the real incendiary figure here when it comes to homicide was Lori Valo. Because when you listen to her speak on her podcasts, you get the feeling that she's so detached from reality that murder would not only be okay in her world, but inevitable. Adding to Lori's responsibility is the fact that some of Chad's most ardent and violent followers were Lori's own family members. Lori's brother particular would play a key, if not leading role in the murder of both of Lori's children. Murders that would ultimately lead the media to dub Lori Valo the Doomsday Mom.

Cute.

Yeah.

Yes.

Better than tot mom.

Yeah, I remember. Yeah. Top mom was the worst. Yeah. Yeah. Doomsday Mom's fun.

Yeah.

Like I knew.

Yeah.

That's the Nancy Grace part of it being like, when we get down to the final days, it will be be between me and Lori Valo in a two time, two time fall competition. I can't wait to see Nancy in there. But this is. It's not her whole family. We're gonna next episode. That's when we get to Lori Valo. Yes, they've been prepping. They prepped her with the prep sauce from the very beginning.

Both of them were prepped heavily. But before we get into the story, let's acknowledge our two sources for this series. First up, we've got when the Moon Turns to Blood by Leah Sotelle, which is more of a context Take that explores the whys of this case informed by years of investigation of right wing extremist groups. The other is the Doomsday Mother by John Glatt. Which is more of an account of the day by day lives of Chad and Laurie. It's a very much a he said, she said book. But together, these two sources have given us a pretty damn good picture of what really went down behind the scenes during one of the most fascinating true crime stories of the modern age.

And I would like to thank, like, the research done at Hidden True Crime and Mormon Stories podcast have. So there is like, like, if you want content, if you like a fucking hole to go down like I do, this is where you go. If you want to find the Chad Dabel, Lori Valo, Sweet Marrow, it is within these podcasts and it is long. Like, each one is like six hours long. There's so much information. You meet a lot of Lori's family. It's. There's a lot to learn here and there's a lot to unpack.

Yeah. And we're going to do a fair amount of unpacking on this episode and on the next episode. But we're really going to try our hardest to not get lost in the sauce gear because, I mean, that is sort of a feature, not a bug. In the Mormon religion, there's just layer after layer after layer after layer and secret layers.

Then you get to the secret layers, then you get to the code words, then you get to the stuff that doesn't mean what they say it means like, it's a very mysterious religion.

No, it's like it's. There's a reason why we compare Mormonism and Scientology quite a bit like science. Mormonism is sort of the antecedent to Scientology, and they are both very American religions in the fact that. And the fact that, you know, both, you know, they're based a lot on magical thinking and they're also also both like, heavily entrenched with capitalism and making money.

And the Mormons, don't they believe Jesus came to America?

Yeah.

It's fun.

Absolutely. No, no, it's all the golden plates and all that. Yeah.

Spoiler. Guess what? He loved Big Gulps. They just didn't have them in Jerusalem.

Yeah. The Garden of Eden is. And where. Missouri.

Yeah. The Mormon Garden of Eden is in. Yeah, it's in Missouri. Yeah.

And love Missouri. Yeah.

We might be going to St. Louis soon, so we'll find out.

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Now to really understand how Chad and Lori got to the point where they could commit the murders of four family members without feeling an ounce of guilt, we've got to understand Chad Daybell and the decades long slow burn that led to the creation of his worldview. So Chad Daybell was born in 1968 in the small town of Springville, Utah. Technically, Chad's Gen X, not Boomer.

Whoa. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We know this. We know this is different. This is that. I was talking about the GA guys.

This is.

Yeah, this is different. No, no, he's new blood. He's super cool. Yeah, yeah, he's super Gen X. He's super like. Oh my God. Let me try and think. That's a Lithium voice. Yeah, like Kennedy, you know, like it's the Kennedy voice. Hot girl, hot Gen X girl.

Hey, we're here to listen alternative music.

Like that just made me cut my pants.

Yeah, he's part of the caffeine free Pepsi generation.

Well, founded by followers of Brigham Young, Springville's population of 35,000 people is 80% Mormon and boasts not only 18 Mormon churches, but a drive thru soda shop that sells dozens of sugary beverages. All, of course, without caffeine.

And I'll always remember when I was infant child. All the first thing I had to do was wipe all that terrible vagina residue off of me. Because the stink of sin was all over my infant body. The slime of filth inside of my mother's cavern covered me with such sin that even at that moment, I wish I could burst into flames. I'll have a Diet Coke, please.

Eighteen churches in a town of 35,000 people. That's incredible. It's overkill, but, well. But I know I. I grew up in a town of like 350 people, and we had, I think, seven churches. Yeah.

Because you have to. I guess it's covering all of the bases.

Yeah, yeah. You had the Baptist church, Methodist church, Church of Christ, Four Square, so on and so forth.

Yeah, but these are just Mormon churches.

These are all Mormon churches.

Did they have normal churches, too? They might likely.

Yeah. They might have one or two. Because it's, you know, 80% Mormon. I wouldn't imagine the other 20% are Satanist.

No, man, that'd be awesome, though.

Yes, that'd be a good way. I think that is equal 20%.

It really is.

If you spend more time in Salt Lake City, it's like that alt community is wild. They just. They drink blood.

Yeah. No, there's this record store that I go to every time I go to Salt Lake City. And like, their logo is like, lamb chop, like, as Baphomet.

Yeah.

They know what they're doing now. According to his memoirs, Chad Daybell is simply the next in a long line of Mormons who began their association, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, aka the LDS, way back in the 1840s. According to the story, Chad's ancestor, Finity Table. It's the worst name I've ever heard in my life.

You also be prepared for the avalanche of terrible names. Entire story. They all have the worst names. It's like Braxton and. And Fennec and like Tabular and Sky. Yeah, the worst shit is awful. Mormons names.

Well, Finity Daybell saved a nephew of Mormonism founder Joseph Smith from a crowd who had begun throwing eggs at Smith's nephew while he was publicly preaching. Happens a lot to Mormons.

Not anymore. Too expensive.

Eddie.

Save money.

Also, Mormons have been fine for like a hundred years now. Well, after saving Smith's nephew, the Day Bells became a fairly established Utah Mormon family. But when it came to shaping Chad's worldview, his lineage, like many fundamentalist Mormons, was full of stories of the supernatural. That's because Mormons are amongst the top when it comes to religions that claim personal encounters with gods and ghosts.

Maybe it's because their founder was a grave robber and a wizard.

Yeah, he was. That's actually Joseph Smith before he was a spiritual leader. That's kind of how he got his start, is that he would rob indigenous grave mounds in upstate New York and sell the treasure.

Yes.

I don't know about the wizard part.

Yeah, well, he said he was.

He Also said he was a wizard at the same time.

Do you see seeing stones? He would you. He actually used chaos magic and like left hand magic properties as a young man. And it's one of those things. Same thing as the secret sauce of Scientology, which is the OTO structure. Like it is the same thing. All of that wiggity stuff that they happen to be quote unquote against all that Harry Potter shit. That's what started them all.

Yeah, the bland wizard.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the seeing stones that Joseph Smith used and on, you know, the golden plates and all the accoutrement. That's partly why Mormons and New Agers touch tips quite a bit. We're going to get that as the series goes on. But you know, the idea of the supernatural, personal encounters with gods and ghosts, this is actually baked into the religion because Mormonism's founder, Joseph Smith, built the entire faith based on the concept of revelation, in which God spoke to him personally and gave him directives on how to construct and run the church. Polygamy, for example, was a revelation God gave Joseph Smith.

Who's got the time?

Well, that's the thing that you're missing, Eddie, is that with polygamy, the secret is ignoring most of them. Oh, yeah.

Oh, that sounds great.

But the power of revelation did not die with Joseph Smith. And every church leader from Brigham Young to the current president of the Mormon Church has claimed the power of revelation in order to shape the LDS Church to move with the times. For instance, Revelation took polygamy out of the Mormon equation so Utah could join the United United States. And Revelation allowed black people to join the Mormon Church after the Civil Rights movement, although God certainly dragged his feet on that one by waiting until 1978 to make it.

So I can't do everything at once?

Yes.

I'm only the most powerful, omniscient, prescient entity born at the beginning of the universe. Yes.

And in 1978, he said, what? That dance.

It'S all I could do. That's the best I can do.

Do you know how long it takes to build a planet for each one of these Mormons?

I'll tell you instantly. I do it very, very quickly, and I don't really think about it afterwards. Honestly, you're cutting into my executive time.

But that's all to say that Mormons are primed to believe that God can speak to them at any moment, just like he spoke to Joseph Smith and the dozens of prophets who came out. This is why so many cults spring from Mormonism, because People like Chad Daybell can suddenly say God is telling him to go his own way, just like God told Joseph Smith to go his own way.

I got a sign the other day when I heard that old. It was this amazing. I couldn't even believe it. It even just said it on the radio. Go your own way. And I just said, go your own way. Gonna go your own way. I'm sorry I'm singing. I know that that's prideful.

Even God's like, hey, why don't you get out of here?

Hey, leave. You suck. You know that?

What revelation means is that Mormon cults can basically ignore anything the church has said after Joseph smith died in 1844. They can go back to the beginning by saying that all the subsequent revelations that came after Smith's death are false and only the new cult's leader has the true line to God. I mean, mostly these Mormon cult cut it off after Brigham Young because Brigham Young brought them to Salt Lake City and, you know, expanded the cosmology considerably. But yeah, usually after Brigham Young, that's when they're like, well, everything went to shit after that.

Well, I did speak with Brigham Young. The problem is, is that I lost my original plan and I had to change my number. So difficult nowadays. It's so easy to switch. Especially with Mint Mobile. Yes, I am God and I am here. I'm doing an advertisement for Mint Mobile because I chose Ryan Reynolds. And Ryan Reynolds will be your leader. He will cull. He will strike down various races because of my strength, with the strength of God himself and Mint Mobile's ability to save you money.

When you believe that God can speak to you and give you direction, and I mean speak to you directly inside your head, tell you to turn left, turn right, it tends to warp your worldview. And Chad Daybell claimed that from a young age, a supernatural power that he called the Voice would give him direct guidance.

So Michael Buble's in his head.

No wonder he kills his head. Michael Buble. Lionel Richie got crazy.

X Tina's there. What do you say? X Tina? I say show them titties and get out there, Mr. Man. Well, let me ask Lionel Richie.

When it came to Chad's first experiences with the Voice, he wrote in one of his memoirs that when he was 13, he saw a honeybee fluttering around and he decided to smash it with his shoe. Mad with power, Chad began killing all the bees he could see until he had killed 120 bees.

Have you ever tried to kill a bee?

It's hard with your shoe.

Impossible. The other bees attack you. Chad Babel is a fucking liar. He's never stepped on a bee. He's never done a goddamn thing.

I mean, what a lo. I. When I kill a bunch of bees, I never count them.

Yeah, it's hard to do.

I know that. That's what always jumped out at me is that, like, I killed 120 bees.

I just want to make sure I can put it down in my journal. One, Two.

Ouch, ouch, Ouch.

Hey.

Ouch.

Three.

Ouch.

Four. Ow. Five.

Yeah.

Six, seven, eight. Suddenly, though, she's, like, coming. I was talking to Xtina today, and she said a bunch of crazy shit about the count bees. Should have done that.

Well, suddenly, though, once Chad reached 120Bees, 120B, he heard a voice telling him to stop. A voice that Chad was sure was either an angel or God himself speaking directly to. No matter which one it was, though, Chad stopped killing the bees. And he claimed that the voice became a constant presence throughout his life from that point on. And it's presumably still speaking to him in his prison cell today.

Yeah, it's saying stuff like, hey, you know, we could get a pack of cigarettes if you just touch that man's penis. And then we can use the cigarettes to get a law book. And then I can use that law book to rip out the pages and make a little fire inside of my prison cell and make s'mores. And all I have to do is have sex with that man.

Well, sometimes you're right.

Yes. You gotta do. Thanks, Xtino. Yes, me, Xtino. Sorry.

No, it's great. You're doing your own act.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's good. Yeah.

Sorry.

Well, sometimes the voice whispered, sometimes it shouted, sometimes it urged, sometimes it scolded. And sometimes it had specific directions or commands. But Chad wrote in his memoir that he trusted the voice implicitly and never disobeyed.

It definitely wasn't his own thoughts.

No, it's definitely not just thoughts. His internal monolog telling him to do things. What is your. What was the last thing your internal monolog told you to do? That you said, no, succeed.

And I said, no, I gotta leave room for others.

Mine told me to burn down the Zanku chicken. Who didn't put chicken on my salad?

I am still angry.

I'm so mad about this.

It's called in the name of the restaurant Zanku Chicken. And the idea that you would sell a salad and not put. It should be difficult to remove the chicken.

But I calmed myself. I did not listen to My voices.

That's good.

My voices made me yell at Eddie about it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I took some of our ham and I. And I tore it up and I put it on my salad and made it worse. And that's how you do it. That's how you strive to be a better person.

So it was so sad watching him rip up the sheets of ham to put on his salad to be like, it's the only thing that makes you edible.

Chad Daybell. Despite him being a quiet individual, he was a reasonably popular student once he reached high school. He'd also become a committed member of the LDS Church, having had his spiritual awakening in ninth grade while reading the Book of Mormon in his bedroom.

Boing.

The only thing that set Chad apart was his summer job working for the Springville City Parks Department as a grave digger. This was a profession he'd continue for many years and eventually used to his advantage when his beliefs led him to situations in which digging illegal graves became a part of his spiritual journey. When Chad was a senior, he had an experience that changed him. An experience that many Mormons revere and crave, especially now. That year, Chad Daybell had his first near death experience, or nde, while cliff jumping into a reservoir. So from now on, if you hear us say the acronym nde, we're talking about near death experiences. Chad said that when he jumped off the cliff and hit the water, he had a sharp shock throughout his whole body and he believed he'd broken his neck. He then realized that his spirit was leaving his body through the top of his head, but he'd gotten stuck duck in his skull. Once the spirit got stymied, Chad drifted beyond the veil. Wow.

So wet.

There's fish and there's coral and seaweed here in heaven.

He crossed over from life into death, where he heard a deep, rich, synthesized melody and felt a soothing warmth all over him.

You felt across the avenue doo doo doo doo Shining right on you, shining right on you.

Do you think the warmth that he felt was his own urine?

Probably. Quite suddenly, though, he was yanked back into his body. But he claimed, as many Mormons do, that his near death experience ripped open his so called personal veil veil. And it never closed again. And the opening of this veil gave Chad magical powers.

So this is one thing I also want to remind everyone that I have to remind myself is that every person in this story is a Mormon. So they have not experienced a heck of a lot. And so I realized that this moment is that he had the breath knocked out of him. He did not die. He just was shocked by having never experiencing a single thing. And then his buddies making him jump off a cliff because that's what he said. He's like, you know, I had a bunch of prankster friends and they thought it would be a real right scenario of hilarity if I were to jump. And I said, well, you can't pay me to be up there. But next thing I know I'm up there. And it's the way he talks about how he falls because then he sees his grandfather and his grandfather downloads all this information into his head. His grandfather shows him all the books he's got to write and he's like, these are all the books you're going to write. Enjoy yourself because you're the most talented Chad I've met since I don't know the la since I as your grandfather blew my brains out.

Now, for some Mormons, near death experiences are massive deals. Because if you go beyond the veil of death and come into contact with God himself, you can come away with special powers other Mormons don't have. Like the ability to actually see into the future and witness the second coming of Christ. Christ. Most important amongst the powers an NDE can give you though, and especially when it comes to our story, is the gift of discernment. Certain Mormons who go beyond the veil are believed to come back with the ability to tell if a person is good or evil just by looking at them. And they also get the ability to tell the difference between a lie and the truth.

Well, also the gift of discernment really supposed to be a power of the authorities of Mormonism. So if you get what you call the second anointment, which is the super secret thing inside of Mormonism, so you get the second anointment, which means you're super extra holy and you might be one of the 144,000 and you get.

Superpowers when you get a second anointment.

And that's the gift of discernment. And the gift of discernment is extremely important in this story because it makes everything concrete reality in the Mormon world. As soon as someone within on the board of Mormonism says this is true, this is a part of capital M Mormonism, it is then concrete reality. And they are literalists. Everybody that is in the Mormon religion believes in the actual words of the Bible. They do not. They don't think it's metaphor, they think it's literal. So this is the same. They are being told that you can now do this. You have superpowers now that you have done this thing.

Yeah. And what happens a lot with Mormons as well is that they find a way around it because the establishment will say like, no, no, no, we're the only ones that are allowed to do this. But eventually the rank and fil a way around that and near death experiences were how the rank and file found their way around the gift of discernment. Like you don't have to wait for a second annoyment. You don't have to be a person up top. You can have a near death experience. And that's how you can get the gift of discernment.

See, when you say near death experience or nde, I hear CTE brain damage, which we all know makes you super peaceful and rational.

I like to call the Benoitization of society.

Now, Chad claimed that when he went beyond the veil during his near death experience, the gift of discernment was bestowed upon him. This is the gift Chad would later use to deem who is and who isn't a zombie, which would be central to the belief system Chad sold to Lori Valo and his other followers. But the thing about Chad Daybell is that he is an entirely unoriginal creation. He's a patchwork. Every bit of Chad's philosophy is either a rehash of fundamentalist Mormon beliefs or a straight theft from other neo fundamentalist Mormon writers and thinkers. And that brings us to Tom Harrison.

Now this is where we're probably gonna get some kind of flack from somebody maybe, which I hope, because this, this little line we're about to take is considered the most heretical version of Mormonism that you can be a part of. Like this here is what I call the Mormon deep state that we are kind of stumbling upon. I'm going to explain that more through the series. But Tom Harrison is shyster, a fucking con man and an absolute piece of shit. And I do think that at some point, like, who knows, they are, we're going to, we're going to see what happens once we start talking about this.

He's dead though, right?

No, ah. Very much still alive. Very much still important in the Mormon church.

Well, in 2012, Tom Harrison was the subject of a book called Visions of Glory, a book that is key to the modern near death experience world. Working with an author, Harrison outlined no less than four near death experiences that occurred over the course of his life. And through these nd ease, Harrison had apocalyptic revelations in addition to gaining magical powers and secret knowledge.

There is a distinct difference between the other Mormon NDE literature so there's a whole subgenre of Mormon NDE literature.

Massive.

It's huge. But everybody else up to this point, when they wrote one of these books, they wrote them in a kind of cushy way. It was very much like there's a heaven and it's nice and you'll meet your relatives and your ancestors. And it's. And it was a. Normally they were very positive and very fluffy and kind of garbage. Truly garbage. They're all garbage. Visions of Glory is the most garbage. But where Visions of Glory is different is the end sequence in which he talks about the end times and how he can prepare for the end times. Because he knows, because this isn't a quote unquote Mormon vision. This is just a standard nd he now has actual confirmation in what is going to happen at the end of the Mormon storyline. And the idea that Mormons are going to save the United States of America from invasions after the massive earthquakes and tsunamis and all this, well, who cares.

If they get, we get invaded if there's only 140, 44,000 people left?

Well, it's because it's a massive country.

It's a massive country. It's a lot of land.

Now, Tom Harrison is primarily a Mormon therapist and spiritual leader who used the name Spencer when giving his testimony to the author of Visions of Glory. And Harrison used a pseudonym for good reason. See, in the Mormon religion, anyone can have a personal revelation. In fact, personal revelations are encouraged because each LDS member is supposed to have an intimate relationship with God and personal revelations are central to that. But only the highest patriarchal leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are allowed to discuss and distribute revelations that address or adjust church doctrine. And the rank and file are supposed to keep their revelations to the personal growth category. In other words, the LDS maintains a rigid separation between personal and authoritative revelation. Because the whole LDS system falls apart if everyone has equal authority to say God told them this or that about polygamy or fucking whatever. But that rigid separation means that Tom Harrison, in publishing his revelations and in publishing that he's got these secret powers and that he shortcutted the gift of discernment that could very well have gotten him excommunicated for doing so. Or at the very least, it could have gotten him heavily chastised by the establishment.

The only reasons why Tom Harrison is still in good standing in the LDS Church is because one, he comes from a very powerful Salt Lake City family and two, two, his book got the blessing of a high ranking LDS Apostle, a member of the Quorum of twelve.

See these guys are. I mean it. If you want to, to be honest, if you want to wipe out most of the governing body of Mormonism, I think a couple of well placed air horns will surprise them to the point where their skin will fall off. The president of Mormonism right now, Russell m. Nelson is 100 years old. Yes, he is looking like he's not going anywhere.

He looks like Dan Aykroyd from Nothing.

But Trou turning into a urinal cake as a person. But this is also, it's slightly even more complicated than this because Tom Harrison was pulled aside. So Tom Harrison's.

Of course it's more complicated. I'm just trying to simplify it.

You're the best. Tom Harrison, he was in charge.

This isn't a nine hour series.

I want this to be. It will not stop. Tom Harrison started as a man who was a therapist for children who have extreme, who've experienced sexual trauma. And so that's where his, that's what his job is now. Tom Harrison, he not. So he wrote this book, all this controversy came out saying you have put yourself above Jesus Christ, between Jesus and God as the person that has the most answers. That's his idea. That's what you've done with this revelation. Tom Harrison gets called in in the main office. They say, you should have kept this in your pocket. This has been the thing you never should have put out. Even though he used his own connections to the quorum of 12 to get it approved in order to backdoor get it published without there without anybody finding out until it was already too late. So this, when this comes out, they finally come in, they're like, you can't do this. This is fucking us up. He writes a letter of apology. Tom Harrison writes a disavowal of the book in which he talks about how he's Spencer and blah blah, blah, but he's. It's utterly full of shit.

But then what he does is on the side. But it's actually all true.

Yeah.

And that is the superpower of it. It's the super. It's because now it's fringe, it's hidden, it's secret. Now Visions of Glory is a cult following. Now Visions of Glory is a thing that you're in the know. You have to know a secret. It's about it and that's what gives it extra funky juice from your grave.

Now to understand why an apostle endorsing Tom Harrison's claims is a big deal, you got to know a Little bit about the modern Mormon hierarchy. Three men sit at the top. The President and his two counselors. The LDS president is believed to be a prophet who speaks directly to God, just like the Pope. And it's through the President that God bestows revelations upon the Mormon people.

Who do you think he likes better?

Oh, do you think the Mormon president or the Pope? Yeah, the Pope.

You think the Pope's more fun than the Mormon? Yes.

Yeah.

He drinks wine.

He drinks wine. He's a better conversationalist.

He lives in Italy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a lot more fun than Utah.

Yeah, he's from Argentina. What would you rather hang out? Someone from Buenos Aires or someone from Ogden?

No, you know, I like Ogden, though.

I. You know, I've never been to Ogden.

It's all the same if you imagine that table, because it's like, you know, the Pope. You got Russell M. Nelson, you got Tom Harrison. Putin. Yee.

Kanye West, Tom Cruise.

Tom Cruise. They're all. And that must be crazy dinner.

Well, under those three men at the top is the Quorum of twelve apostles who do double duty as spiritual guides and business executives who manage the billion dollar industries owned by the LDS Church. Basically, the quorum are CEOs who give sermons and establish policy for the Mormon community. Now, from what Tom Harrison claimed, his family and friends ridiculed him for his vision, so he stopped talking about him. But when an apostle from The Quorum of 12 validated everything Harrison experienced, it legitimized Harrison's beliefs and therefore legitimized them for Mormons at large.

It also made them concretely real. That is the key, is that when you get that. That. Yes, go ahead. It means you have created a series of canon, like, stories for the Mormon religion as a whole.

What corporations do they own? Like, how do they get their 200 billion?

We're going to get into it later, but a lot of it is doomsday prepping. It's doomsday prepping.

Real estate.

Real estate. The Catholic Church. Yeah.

So you've contributed.

Yeah. God damn it. God fucking damn it. Yeah. Big dirt. We're all in on it. We're all in on it. I hurt my hands last weekend by digging in the dirt too much. I use my hands. I didn't use my. I use my shovel sometimes, but mostly I use my hands and. Man, they hurt.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We gotta put little things over your fingertips.

Yeah, well, no, it was the wrists. Too much digging. Like, actual digging.

You gotta jerk off more.

That's not possible. I'm out and, well, the other thing about this is that, you know, I know it might be a little bit confusing because, you know, you hear, you know, on one hand, you've got, you know, the Quorum, a Quorum member saying that it's legitimized. On the other hand, you've got the Mormon establishment telling him to, you know, disavow the book and all that. But the way it works in Mormonism, the way these things. The way these things kind of make it through, is when the Mormon Church doesn't like something, they come out and they disavow it publicly. If it's something that they kind of don't want to fuck with, if it's something that's popular, that people are enjoying, they just don't say anything about it. They don't disavow it at all. And that's how Visions of Glory ended up being. The Mormon Church did not come out specifically and disavow it.

No.

What did they say about Kendrick Lamar's halftime show?

Huge fans.

Loved it. They love subversion, you know.

Oh, huge fan. No, they also are. Then you now see it with Lori Valo and Chad Dabel. Chad Dabel was very publicly. He was very publicly excommunicated.

Yeah.

But Lori Valo has not been yet because they don't want it to go back to her anymore. Chad Daybell, they feel a little bit of sense of responsibility for. But Lori Valo, still the more dangerous, the truly more dangerous one, they just don't even want to mention. They just think, think again. There's something about the Mormon humble arrogance that fills me with such a powerful rage, where it's like. Because that's what this is. It's. We're better than Visions of Glory. Nobody cares about Visions of Glory. We're not going to let. Meanwhile, you are. Visions of Glory eventually will be known as the Turner Diaries for the Mormons.

Yeah.

It will be known as a book that creates radicalized murder cults. It's going to happen again. It already is. It's happening with Jody Hildebrandt. It happened with Tim Ballard. It is happening. It is. It is happening. It's real.

Now. Chad Daybell stole quite a bit from Visions of Glory, details that we'll be peppering in throughout our series. And we know that Chad's partner in crime, Lori Valo, was a fan as well, because when she was arrested, she had a copy of Visions of Glory in her bag. In fact, when Chad and Lori went to jail, they both had burner phones with Tom Harrison's number saved in the contacts under the name Spencer. Spencer's Harrison's alias. So it's almost certain that all three of these people were in regular contact with each other.

Are you sure it wasn't Spencer's gifts? Because I get it. You know, I always gotta call and make sure they got the boob inspector hats, you know, because, like, I sweat through them so quick. Once you get the sweat ring around the top, you know, you can't wear it. It's not nice anymore. I just have another one.

I have to pay for the strength to not go back to that horrible store. And look at the man where you press the bulb and you see his little penises. I will not go back and look weed leaf tote bags again. Please release me from this coil. This horrible coil. Oh, yeah.

I'm always calling up Spencer's gifts like, hey, do you. Do you have birthday cards with 500 pound women on them?

Like, I need them.

I'm in. I got a lot of birthdays coming up.

Excuse me, do you have a waifu pillow in? Sorry, no. Oh, well, I'm gonna have to go kill my family.

Sorry my beer bonk doesn't have a giant cock on the end of it. Do you have something that could fix that for me?

I'll pray for you. I'll pray for you. Give me that bong. With this shows, though, I. That is a thing that we really can't push under the rug because what it's showing is that Tom Harrison to this day says, I have nothing to do with it. If you go and look it up, there is a thing right now that connects you. It's like, I forgot, it's Tom. It's John Pontius's website. The guy who wrote Vision, quote unquote, wrote Visions of Glory. It says specifically, Tom Harrison has nothing to do with Lori Valow and Chad Nabal. Tom Harrison has nothing to do with Tim Ballard. I'm blah, blah, blah. They were hanging out. Yeah, they were texting each other. Tom Harrison was there. Steve Bannon.

Yes, he very much was. Now, all of these people knew each other and everybody who knew Chad and Lori, Chad Dabell and Lori Valow, after the they were arrested, everyone was like, I don't know them. Like. And despite there being like mountains of evidence, like, you know, podcast appearances together.

And they're like podcasts that were turned against them.

But one of the big ideas that both Chad and Laurie remixed from Tom Harrison's book were Tom's visions of the apocalypse that he had after his Fourth and final near death experience. In Harrison's vision, after the plagues and earthquakes and marauders have all settled down, a tribe of 144,000 Mormons would come together to build a new Jerusalem to prepare for the second coming of Jesus Christ. This, of course, is taken from the Book of Revelation, which is incredibly important to the Mormons. It's right there in the fucking name, the Church of Jesus. Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Latter Day meaning the end times. As such, the Book of Revelation has influenced many Mormon cults, including Chad and.

Laurie's four near death experiences.

Yeah.

That is like. You're clumsy.

Well, yeah.

Who you. Mr. Bean.

He also cheated one. He said that his first near death experience was because he was a premature baby. Yeah.

I'm gonna go. I mean, you know what I'm going to say. He didn't have a fucking single one. He had it. He won. Where he was sick and he almost died. He says, blah, blah, blah. Was that he had a very traditional ND in which he ripped it off of every other fucking book that's ever had an ND in it. Except for all of the mountains of lore, all the. The. The weird world that he creates that Chad and Laurie are going to make. Try to make real. But later on, he also had the. It was when. This is what I was saying about. Remember, they're Mormons.

Yeah.

So Tom Harris Harrison, the second big NDE happened when he was. He took pain pills for the first time. He had surgery and he took pain medication and he was just stoned.

Yeah.

And he did not know what stoned was.

Yeah.

The same thing happened to my dog.

Yeah.

Yeah. Ask Tootsie if Tootsie would talk. I'm certain Tootsie's talking to Moroni as well.

Yeah.

I don't want to follow Tootsie's revelations, though, because it's really just me. About chicken.

Talk about someone who's seen the other side.

No.

Many times.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Four near death experiences, though. It's like if there is a God, God's trying to kill him.

He's like, he definitely doesn't want you too. You know, like, if you came back four times to God and you still, like, not your time yet. Actually, you actually got some time.

I'm gonna have to deal with this guy eventually. Not this year. Not put it on. Put off for another decade. Put another decade and then we'll be ready by then.

Why do you think the president's a fucking hundred?

I won't die.

Well, here's how the book of Revelation ties into all this. In the book of Revelation, it said that the pure and special people who survived the opening salvo of the apocalypse would number 144,000. And those people would found a church called the Church of the Firstborn.

It's not insulting you. It's the other, all the horseshit.

Feels like he's insulting me. As I said earlier, Lori Valow would come to think of herself as a literal goddess who is gathering the 144,000 to prepare for Christ's return.

It's a lot of contacts on a burner phone.

It really is. And all thanks to Mint Mobile. My God allowed Mint Mobile. The increased amount of contact is so that you can gather the 144,000 in Ryan Reynolds name. And we will rise against the establishment US Mint Mobile.

Chad Dabel. Meanwhile, having glimpsed the apocalypse as a result of his near death experience powers, he claimed that when he saw the future, he did not see Jesus Christ leading the Church of the Firstborn. Rather, Chad Dabel saw himself as more or less the mayor of New Jerusalem. Now, Tom Harrison has made public statements saying that visions of glory is supposed to be taken as metaphor.

How? It's not a metaphor, it's a story. It's a full story. There's nothing metaphorical about it. It just tells what happens.

But behind closed doors, it said that he tells people that everything in his book is 100% true. And it's almost certain that he told this to Chad and Laurie personally.

Well, this is called the power of the secret school. This is why ancient what you'd say, like if you ever, if you believe in anything about the idea that there might have been secret schools or like this is a function of it. It was. What happens is you have something ludicrous. This is very similar to the Xenu reveal.

Yeah.

Where you've now come too far. You have to believe that this is.

Real, because Xenu Reveal in Scientology, when you get to OT8, you find out that Xenu is behind everything. The whole crazy story.

Well, it's the Great Wall of Fire, right? LRH said that you'll hear the Xenu story, and if you're not, if you aren't ready to hear it, you go insane and die. Right. They think that you'll flip out. And it's in a super secret room and they bring you a fucking suitcase and you open it up and it's handwritten pages from L. Ron Hubbard himself. And you read them silently in a room, put them back in a box, and then you just have to sit with it. That's what they do. And this is the same thing. Tom Harrison is viewed as a true prophet. The true prophet. And these motherfuckers were all scheming in order to flip the entire Mormon Church. And that's my big leap motif that I'm gonna say at the end of this whole fucking thing. This thing is the deep Mormon state trying to get a hold of that.

200 billion you just said at the beginning.

Well, now I'm going to do it later.

Yeah, we're like 40 minutes into this.

We'll get to the next one.

But for now, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves and let's rejoin Chad Daybell as a young man at Brigham Young University, where he studied journalism and somehow became a massive fan of everyone's favorite mopey Manchester New age wave group, the Smiths. The Smiths are amazing.

That's all right.

I love the Smiths. I'm gonna. I'm gonna stand up for the Smiths right now.

You're allowed to. I love it.

I love this. I mean, I'm not gonna stand up for Morrissey. He's a. But the Smiths are incredible. Johnny Mar. Johnny anyone? Johnny Marr.

You know what's funny is that they never really took for me. Maybe it's because I'm not a big marshmallow of a man. I don't want to kill my kids. Yeah. I like happiness, you know, I like anger in music.

Yeah, there's not really much. Well, I mean, there is. There's a deep undercurrent of anger in the Smith's music.

Very much so. But I like Sad Day. I do like sad dance music. So technically that's the peak of sad dance music. But it's not necessarily for me.

Yeah, like Smith's fans just, like, chew on their own shirts.

Some Dolina.

Is Carolina a huge Smith fan?

Yeah, we both are.

Oh, yeah.

Well, you know, I mean, you know, everyone has their flaws.

Well, after a year, byu you, Chad took a break to go on his Mormon mission, and he spent two years trying to convert souls in New Jersey.

God, what I would have given to see him on the streets of Newark. Oh, my God. Someone should have done the right thing.

I think it was Newark. It sounds like Newark. He describes it like a torrent of sirens and insults, burning cars and getting held up by gunpoint. Sounds like Newark.

Could have been Elizabeth. Yeah, could have been Camden. You know, Union or Lyndon.

Crazy. The craziest thing I've seen is that they don't even chop their pork. It's in a roll. And also the women with their hair so high, it would be closer to God if I couldn't see their nipples. And oh Lord, I love the dump.

I know, sir, I know you're lighting that tire on fire, but have you ever thought about Jesus?

Yeah, dude. Yeah, man.

Yeah, dude. Come here, man, let me show you. Dude.

Please don't throw that shopping cart in that pool, sir.

Oh, the airport.

But Chad's experience, like the experiences many Mormon missionaries have when they leave the sheltered worlds they're raised in, this only confirmed his biases about the outside world. That we're all a bunch of animals living in the absence of God. Nevertheless, Chad reportedly set baptism records in New Jersey, not because he was charismatic, but because it was said that his calm, quiet demeanor comforted people and put them at ease. And that's what, that's a very important part of Chad Dabel's personality. Like how he was able to bring people in. It's the. He is the polar opposite. Opposite of like a Charles Manson or a Jim Jones. Like it's this bringing people in with calmness, you know, more like a Marshall Applewhite.

I fucking hate him.

I know you do.

I fucking hate the style. I hate everything about him.

The slow roll, the bring in. Come on.

Because there's. I watched, I just watched an hour long talk with him. Talking at a antique store where he's talking about his books and that motherfucker is. He's so non magnetic. I. He's the least magnetic human I've ever seen.

Yeah. Yeah. He doesn't even make eye contact with the audience.

No. He's a big punchy piece of.

Yeah, but it was also in New Jersey, the Chad's. But get it all out now.

I know it's all, you can't do.

This for six hours. I will. But it was also in New Jersey that Chad supposedly realized that his near death experience while cliff diving a couple years earlier had given him the power to discern between good and evil ghosts. And that ended up being the first of many superpowers he would claim at first.

When you meet Beetlejuice, you are. You are charmed by him. But eventually you know that is a deal that you will regret because Beetlejuice is difficult to remove. Made me laugh.

How about Casper? You ever come across Casper?

Casper is, to be honest, is a pervert.

He tried to make a Casper.

He did.

Me too. Now when Chad returned to Springvale, Utah after his two Years in Jersey, he decided it was his mission to find a wife. And he basically treated his younger brother's high school yearbook as the catalog. After flipping through the pages, Chad picked out a girl named Tammy.

She seems gettable.

And they began dating after meeting at a local LDS singles night.

It's that easy.

Tammy actually worked at the Springvale Cemetery as a secretary. So after she and Chad started going steady, she got him a full time job as a. A gravedigger. And the two of them would hang out listening to the Smiths together, Cemetery gates being their natural favorite song. Tammy and Chad were soon after married following a directive from heavenly Father in 1990. Heavenly Father, that's the, the Mormon name for God.

Yes, I've heard that. They say it in Catholics.

Do they? Oh yeah. Well, they say Our Heavenly Father like the Mormons refer to, like Heavenly Father. All like, that's their name for God. It's like, you know, Jehovah, you know, like for them it's Heavenly Father.

My Heavenly Father's Pedro Pasc.

He's talented.

Icon.

Spread him open.

Yeah, fuck his ass. Yeah. Cut his throat. Play with his fucking guts. I want to be inside him. I want to be with him till he's forever and be a part of me.

Imagine if you were him listening right now.

Hey, huge fans.

Yeah. Please come on the show.

Yeah, please. Love your work. Well, two years later, Tammy and Chad had their first child, Garth, destined to be the oldest of five daybell children. And that's important to also remember at this point is that going forward, like, Chad is a family man with a wife and five kids. Normal guy by the by. Like I think like 97, 98. He's got five kids now. Since Chad had studied journalism at BYU, he soon got a job in Ogden, Utah at the Ogden Standard examiner as a reporter, where he was given the ironic nickname, nickname of Chatterbox because he was quiet and withdrawn. But it's chatter with two Ds. Oh, very, very Mormon type humor.

I get a two Ds like his bra size.

You know, honestly call him.

Double D. Check if I just, if I put a hand low and a hand high and I just look at the chest, I'm like Kelly Riley.

But soon after getting that job, Chad Dabel had his second near death experience while vacationing on the beach in La Jolla, California. As he and his brother were exploring rocks during low tide, the waves came crashing in and they almost swept Chad away.

Just him sitting there. Waves. He's just at the beach and the waves are coming. They're like, be careful, Chad. Waves coming in. Oh, these waves, you know, like he's just standing on the edge of him. Like these waves. Waves are crazy. Yeah, Chad, you're gonna watch out for the waves. Yeah, this waves are really wild out here. Yeah, Chad. Yeah.

The way he talks about. He's like, yes, it was low tide when we went out, but then the tide began to come in.

It's called going to the beach.

Well, that's the thing. But that's the thing.

The tide.

It's not like the tide comes in in like five seconds. Yeah, it's a beach.

It's a fucking beach. It's freaking how oceans work. They tell you how the tides work every day. Stay on an app called a weather app, then you can find out.

But what saved Chad was the return of the voice which told him, quote, get down, cling to that rock.

Get down, clings that rock.

Chad did so, but he was still. Chad did so, but he still smashed his head and started to drown. At that moment, he saw a tunnel of light and. And felt another warm embrace. Wow.

Oh my God.

Wow. What a tunnel.

Wow.

Yeah, sure sign of intelligence is when you're at the beach, swim towards the rocks.

And suddenly two male figures appeared above him. The figures were his Utah pioneer ancestors, and they asked Chad if he would agree to a series of tasks.

Is it true English, that there's a little box that you can see the human anatomy inside?

Not Amish, not English.

How many have heard of this thing?

It's called gum.

Food. Food doesn't disappear.

Once Chad said, sure, I'll do your tasks. He suddenly found himself back in his body. Later, Chad would say that his near death experience was more like an urgent business meeting where he was given information and assignments from beyond the veil. Chad, do you know what this assignments were at this point?

Well, the assignments are him understanding his place in the revelation and that he is supposed to lead and that he is going to. He needs to write his books. He needs to tell everyone his story.

Yeah, yeah.

The assignments for Mormons are like make pancakes and force people to eat them because they need food and then try and convince them to join your church.

Yes.

Normally an assignment for Mormon is like, I need you to build a barn and I need you to have sex with your daughter.

Well, I. Chad's brother actually did come out later and say like, this whole story is like. He said, he's like, I remember that day and it didn't happen like that way at all. Like, Chad got swept out from the rocks. He Actually swam away from the rocks and there was no near death experience mentioned.

Maybe I'll put it this way. Every single word he says is horseshit.

Yeah.

And that he never had one. And he stole it all from visions of glory. And Tom Harrison stole it from a psychiatrist that wrote about it during the Satanic panic. They've all stolen it and each one is plagiarized. They made fun. None of it's real.

Also, almost dying a bunch does not make you strong.

If what doesn't kill you make you stronger. If you almost die four times times, you become the Hulk.

Oh, yeah.

Chad claimed that the veil was truly ripped open after his 2nd nd and the voice continued to guide him in his day to day life. Chad became obsessed with near death experiences and became convinced that they could only be divine visions from God. As far as what he was doing with his life at this point, Chad was splitting time between the Ogden Standard examiner and the Springville graveyard throughout the early 90s. But when the cemetery sexton retired, Chad took the job leading a team of three. Chad dug graves, clean gravestones, and weeded the lawn. But was the whole time beset by visions of the future.

Yeah, nothing makes me feet go think of my bright future like digging a grave.

He was real good at cleaning gravestones because he practiced every day when he washed his head. That kind of again.

For example, when it came to his visions of the future, Chad once envisioned a Polynesian man running over his son in a Kmart parking lot.

Some kind of Asian. Some kind of Asian that ran over my son.

Some kind of poly Asian.

Poly Asian, poly nation. And in the vision, his son was wearing blue overalls. But don't worry. The next time Tammy Daybell dressed her son in blue overalls and said, I'm going to Kmart.

Beautiful.

Right back. Chad went with them. And by going with them, he altered the timeline and saved his son.

What's important here too is the grooming of Tammy Daybell. Tammy Daybell is a normal, quote, unquote, normal Mormon wife.

Sure.

So during this time period, she is watching Chad change and she, I imagine, like many people at first is like, oh, she did supported divisions, she supported little bit of this, but it's becoming more and more real. He's making it more and more a part of their day to day saying, my visions are saying we should get McDonald's. And my vision, like, he's saying stuff like this where they're all like, all right, then they do it. So you get used to it.

Now after having visions for A while, Chad was given a new direction by his disembodied voice. A direction that ostensibly revealed why Chad was having visions in the first place. Quite suddenly, the voice told Chad, it's.

Time to write your books, Deborah.

And with that, Chad Daybell began his career as an absolutely God awful novelist.

I know he killed Lori's kids and he killed, probably killed his wife and he probably helped kill a couple other people, but his biggest crime is his writing.

It's awful. It's God awful.

He's. Yeah, he is awful.

Chad began with a trilogy, Errand for Emma, Escape to Zion and Doug's Dilemma.

Doug's Dilemma sounds like he can't decide which dick to sit on.

This trilogy imagined Chad's three year old daughter as a teenager traveling back in time to 1868 to solve the mystery of her LDS family history. Chad's publishing house, by the way, was the same that would later publish Tom Harrison's visions of. Of Glory. But as bad as Chad's books were, they were an incredibly important step in his spiritual evolution. See, Chad claimed that these books were inspired by his visions and he had a scene in his book Escape to Zion in which the World Trade center was burning. Escape to Zion, however, was published in September of 2000. Yeah, of course there already been one attack on the World Trade center by that point. Yeah.

It's also a very famous landmark and it's would seem like a really good way to show that society is falling apart. As if you, you kind of illustrate like a famous thing like that or the Eiffel Tower, like burning down.

Yeah. But when 911 occurred almost exactly a year after his book was published, Chad came to believe that his visions were truths sent by God. And if that vision came true, along with the Kmart vision and all the other things that, all the other coincidences that were coming true in his life, then that must mean that Chad's visions of the apocalypse were going to come come true as well, I thought.

Or he was in on it, bro.

Yeah, dude, you know what?

He could be in on it.

Yeah, where was he?

Yeah, Ogden, everyone knows that's where they trained. But as it would be with Tom Harrison, it was only a matter of time before Chad Daybell ran afoul of the Mormon establishment and he hit a significant roadblock with his novel Chasing Paradise. See, one of the biggest LDS bookstores, Deseret Books, was refusing to promote Chasing paradise because it had an extreme in which a warrior angel dropkicks someone through a wall.

He uses the term dropkicks. In a book, like he's 13 years old. Like, that's how someone describes, like, I like a drop kick. I think a drop kick's really fun.

I think I'd love a drop kick.

We all do.

Yeah, but they're supposed to be in like, you know, Sylvester Stallone movies.

Yes.

Yeah. Well, Deseret claimed the segment was too irreverent. So Chad got irate, took it personally, and came to believe he was being silenced.

And I took that personally. Drop kicked the man at Deseret Books.

I showed him. I didn't do any of that.

I can't make my legs parallel of the sky. I can't do it when I'm sitting down. As you can see, my FA goes over my dick and balls between my main thighs, leaving my legs at a permanent voice.

Now, really, Deseret Books was just looking for a reason to stop carrying Chad's novels because they were badly written and didn't sell. By Chad's own admission, his writing is terrible, rife with cliches, plot holes and extraneous punctuation. But he insists that his failings are something the reader just has to, quote, glide past to reach the ideas and messages contained within his stories.

That's not how books work. Yeah, you have to like all of it.

Yeah.

And have an editor.

Yeah, that is true.

He did, but it was not a good one.

Yeah. But spurned by his so called banning from Deseret Books, Chad decided to start his own publishing company called Spring Creek with his wife Tammy. And in addition to Chad's novels, they began publishing authors whose specialty was near death experiences. Now, Chad believed that his experience beyond the veil gave him the power to tell whose near death experiences were real and whose were fake. And he decided that a woman named Suzanne Freeman had the the goods. Over the course of three books called Led by the Hand of Christ through the Window of Life and the Spirit of Liberty, author Suzanne Freeman claimed that during a hospitalization, she had a near death experience where she met Jesus, who gave her a tour of the afterlife and introduced her to the Virgin Mary.

Let me show you around. Over here we have the steam room, which is cool. We have some ice plunges.

This.

This is the Virgin Mary. Not so much anymore right now she can be. She could be a lot. She is many, many times. We.

That's a great thing. She's my mother. Here in heaven. We're not held up by hang ups, man. Yeah, me and mom talk about all the time.

She shows me how to. I now it's crazy up Here Suzanne's like, wow, I can't wait to get back.

Jesus then showed Suzanne the apocalypse.

This is where it gets sad.

Or Suzanne claimed to see rivers flowing with the bodies of aborted fetuses.

Get it? Be on one man, put a koozie in it.

Sounds like something that stops the apocalypse. A bunch of abortions.

That is true. It would, but you get too many abortions. That's when the switch gets flipped. Because that's the thing. There's so many abortions happening, they're just tossing them in the river.

You know, I think a river of floating dead children is more apocalyptic than a bunch of feet. Aborted fetuses, I would agree, but they, you know, that's just me.

That's. You're not a writer.

I'm not, yeah.

Certainly not.

I prefer a hot tub of aborted fetus. A cauldron.

Yeah, cauldron's actually quite nice. Well, then. Then you're talking. Then you make a stew.

Yep. Oh, my God, we're making soup.

Oh, my God. You ever put one on a flat top grill? Make a billy cheesesteak?

Oh, wow.

Cute.

Well, finally after all that, Suzanne met the founding f fathers of America, including Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, who are all hanging out in heaven.

This is my place.

Yeah.

Come on. You want to go see my place? Yeah. Here we go. It's a studio, but I like it. You know, I'm Benjamin Franklin. It's fine. You know, I thought I'd get more. I gotta wait, you know, and some of them to do with what I did with my slaves or whatever. But this is the Murphy bed.

It's funny that there is more slaves in heaven than there was on America.

I was surprised too, when I met a bunch of them. I was like, oh, wow. Oh, I'm in some hot water.

The Suzanne Freeman's books were part of a Trend in early 20th century Mormon publishing where near death experiences and apocalyptic visions rife with Mormon persecution were going hand in hand. See the visions that Mormon near death experience authors like Suzanne Freeman were bringing back from the veil. They not only prophesied plagues and nuclear war, but they also talked about prayer bands and concentration camps full of Mormons. And Mormons are already primed for persecution stories because of the trials and tribulations of their religions. Religion's founding where they were chased from town to town before finally settling in Utah. But these modern predictions began to freak out a lot of Mormons and they began doomsday prepping en masse. Interestingly though, most Mormons were already doomsday preppers because of a passage in the Book of Mormon that says, if ye are prepared, ye shall not fear. In fact, doomsday prepping is a part of the LDS business model as the church, Church makes billions selling dehydrated food and other survivalist supplies to their flock.

I knew their food sucked, but I knew it was on purpose.

It's the last forever. But it is interesting is that it's a full part of the religion is this doomsday prep like section. There's a whole version of it and it's so it's normalized. And I also thought was really interesting while listening to Mormon stories as they said. One thing that was interesting about the Chad Lorries story is that so every they call them awards. That's like the neighborhoods every war.

Yeah.

Words award is like certain section of wherever you live that you were born.

To award W A R D. Like yeah, Robin. Yeah. Robin was award of Batman. Yeah.

The sixth ward, the ninth ward, all this stuff.

And they believe that in within those wards you are like essentially you're responsible and you're, you're just kind of dropped in. But within those wards there's always some kooky guy that had a dream that they know where Kolob is or they know where to go, where the new navu is going to be. And they say that it's so common that you're just so used to it. You're like okay. And you just kind of roll past it.

Yeah. Now Chad Dabel was certainly one of the people who were influenced by the near death experience slash apocalypse literature. And since he was having apocalyptic visions himself, he also became a heavy duty doomsday prepper. As such, Chad Daybell refocused his writing career in the early 2000s from drop kicking angels and time traveling Mormons to near death experiences and end times predictions. This was also, perhaps not so coincidentally, around the time that the Left behind series of apocalyptic Christian novels were selling millions of copies. But if you'll remember, Chad fucking sucked as a writer. And his and Tammy's publishing company netted a profit of $2,000 a year in its best year.

A couple more and you have yourself cocktails.

So in 2008, Chad and Tammy's publishing company went bust and Chad filed for bankruptcy. Although Chad conveniently blamed his failure on the Great Recession, it is key to.

Remember that Chad is chasing trends. He is trying to be quote unquote savvy about his positioning of his near death experience books and his own near death experiences. He Knows this is one thing also Mormon stories said that I thought was really interesting. Interesting is that near death experiences within wards are power grabs. They literally are a way to put yourself forward as a. I'm a new prophet. When you can. And so this is. It's.

It's just his near death experiences are self made.

Yes.

He jumped into a sinkhole and he swam close to rocks.

He's not a good swimmer. He just suffers from not being good at a single thing.

Yeah. So after his company folded, Chad returned to grave digging, while Tammy fell into a depression and tried escaping the pain by becoming addicted to a game called Frontierville. In other words, life was becoming real, mundane, and Chad was not one to live in the mundane for long.

I like excitement, you know, Meat is Murder.

It's one of the most exciting albums to ever be released. So incredibly exciting.

Just wild, wild stuff in there. Barely contained. I could barely, barely stay in this chair.

Oh, my God. Do you think they like the Smiths because of Joseph Smith?

Whoa, whoa. You know what? That probably led him to that.

It's like Joseph Smith's.

I was in the record store one day and I saw a band called the Smiths.

They can't be that far off if they're in the same family as our savior. Oh, wow. I have nothing to wear tonight. That's such a rare name.

Well, by 2012, Chad was being a bit of a pain in the ass to his family and friends, pressuring them to prepare for the end times. He also was continuing to write novels inspired by beliefs that were only becoming more extreme and dangerous. This is also probably around the time that Chad discovered Tom Harrison's Visions of Glory. Chad's beliefs were only made more extreme when he became obsessed with an online Mormon prepper forum called Another Voice of Warning, or avow, which was filled with conspiracy theories, fake news, and neo fundamentalist Mormon propaganda. AVOW was the other side of Mormonism. The stuff apart from, like, the cutesy world of Sister wives, more so. It was the logical continuity, continuation of the aggression held by the Mormons who committed, say, the Mountain Meadows Massacre of 1857, where a group of Mormons slaughtered over 120 settlers from Arkansas.

You'll have to tell me more about that later.

Yeah, it's a big story. Yeah.

Yeah, but, you know, we're already running over.

Actually, I think. Actually, I think that show, American Primeval, I think the. The new one covers the whole thing. I think that's what. I think it's what it's about.

Everyone's been telling Me to watch them.

It's great. I actually did sort of watch it because Natalie was watching it because also you guys want to go check out some place underneath in their coverage of the Mormon Church. I'm going to keep plugging them because they've. They've been getting into the money now, but yeah, we've been watching American Primeval. It's pretty good.

Yeah, yeah. Now, as I said, Chad was not a successful author when it came to sales or skill. But when he showed up on the eval forums, he was treated like a celebrity. Not because his novels were any good, but because Chad was beginning to hit the end times and indie angles hard in his writing. See, the people who love Chad Daybell's books, they didn't give a about quality. All they wanted was lurid descriptions of the apocalypse that would justify their prepper lifestyle and beliefs. Imagery like rivers flowing with aborted fetuses that was perfect for them. That was the type of. They wanted to. They wanted to get scared. They wanted. And they want their beliefs all this crazy that all their families tell them, like you're out of your mind. They want that confirmed by somebody else. In other words, Chad had finally found his audience.

These are my people.

Yeah.

If you do. I listen to a very interesting talk on hidden true crime with a guy that is a prepper that was member of Lori Valo's family, the prepper family that she came from. And he said something that was so illuminating that we've guessed it for years. But he said the words out loud where he was like, I've been prepping my whole life. I'm ready. I want it. I hear and I need to be challenged. Challenge now I want my challenge. And so they are willing to do whatever it takes to bring about the end times so that they can larp on our time. They want to go and live their survival stories out loud while we all die. Just destroyed by walls of fire and floods and comets. And so that they can go live their Mormon romance fantasies of living in a world where your wives and children have to die so that you could do the couple's ruse in the post apocalyptic Mormon future where you can hold hands. This is the fantasies they're talking about too. They're not like they're fucking. No, it's not like it's cool stuff. It's like literally being able to like kiss another lady.

It's are you. But also with all the doomsday prepping, you bought the gear, you know you want to use it. Yeah, let's Buy gear for shit. We do, you know, and so like, we use our stuff immediately, but if you're just sitting on it and looking at it, you're like, what, Are all these people going to die?

Yeah, it really is. And I think there's. There's also an element where they don't want to feel stupid, because if they've spent all of their money and all of their time and all their entire lives preparing for something that never comes, they're going to feel like a fucking moron. And Americans especially do not like admitting they're wrong.

No. And we start to realize, though, is that what you can do to make your own reality, and it's a very good American concept, is that you can go out there and start it. So that's kind of what they think, is that if we just start acting like the end times are about to come, maybe they will.

Yeah. And there's also. And that's also partly where this accelerationist bullshit comes from. You know, these people that are trying to contribute to the collapse of society, you know, partly that's made up of survivalist people who just want this shit to be real.

They just want everybody that they don't like to die.

Yeah. Well, Chad decided to restart his book publishing company around the time he discovered avow, and in addition to four apocalyptic novels of his own called the Days of Turmoil series. Days of Turmoil. Sounds like he's got diarrhea.

You know what's the worst part? You know what's the worst part of somebody who's bad at stuff like this? Is that he's also prolific.

Yes. Well, yeah, because he doesn't spend any time editing or putting any fucking thought. I. I could be prolific. I could write.

You all are prolific.

Well, yeah, but I could be. I could. I could be prolific in fiction. Like, I could write a. I could write three shitty books by the end of the year if I didn't do second drafts or if I didn't go and actually read back what I wrote and I had. And there was behind it. Yeah, that's. Prolific is usually equal to shitty.

How's that novel you're working on where it's the reimagining of yourself as a gay octopus having sex with Carolina?

You know what? It's going pretty badly. It was. It was going good.

The last draft was. I, you know, I said the last draft was irresponsible, was incendiary. Yeah. And we really can't have another Visions of glory out there.

I mean, you really. That's the thing you can't change lives unless you take big swings.

I know. Yeah, I know. And that's when. When you got the eight tentacles inside of her, my first thought was, is this nice? Yeah, I thought it was, hey, it's love, it's romance. So in the end, now that I am thinking about it.

Well, in addition to his own Days of Turmoil books, Chad also published another near death experience author that he met on the AVOW forums, a woman named Julie Rowe. Now, Julie Rowe is a character, to say the least, who you may remember as the only Neo fundamentalist Mormon to speak on the Netflix documentary series Sister of My Mother. The one who bragged about being rejected by the LDS Church for telling the truth. Ro very much fits into the nerdy Mormon world, however, because when she would speak in public about her NDE books, she would twirl these long colored ribbons behind her that would usually become tangled up. But the audience, full of polite Mormons, would never laugh and would only watch politely while she untangled herself.

Should we get up? Should we, should we help? No, no, no, no. This is a part of it. It's this awkwardness. It's a. This is a whole vibe.

I tried to help her last month and she bit me.

She's. Yeah, she is very ready. She's very hungry.

She bites.

Hold on. I need to start over.

Sit there.

Do it again. Start over. Start the music over.

Back it up. Lower the curtain.

It's a great big beautiful tomorrow.

Well, author Julie Rowe was also one of the many members of the AVOW forum to have their own podcast. Rose was called Eyes Open, where she would talk obsessively about her so called haters flipping and reversing criticism by saying that the more haters she had, the closer the second coming was to cunt.

Fuck yeah, dude, of course. Yeah, that's how I feel about my haters. Dude, fucking whatever. You're about to meet Jesus soon. You're going to be dead.

Yeah.

Yeah, fuck you, haters.

But even though Roe has had her critics, her books far outsold Chad Daybell's. And they became so popular that the LDS sent out an official memo against her saying that her book should not be recommended to students or used as a resource to teach them. You know, and you know, Chad of course wants his books to sell, but now he's making money. And this repudiation by the mainstream church caused both Julie Rowe and Chad Daybell to retreat even further from mainstream Mormonism. Now, the repudiation from the Mormon establishment only made Chad more popular with the Neo Fundamentalists. And around this time, Chad began collecting actual followers, all of whom were members of the AVOW forums and all doing.

It with the, you know, hi, you know, I don't have any, anything special about me, pay attention to me. There's nothing special about me. And I might be able to talk to God, but there's nothing special special about me.

No. Now, quite quickly, the eval forum turned into an echo chamber of alarmist conspiracies, paranoid catastrophizing and survivalist chatter. Their talk got so alarming that the aforementioned NDE author Suzanne Freeman, she asked Chad for the rights of her books back because she was so afraid of being connected to a vow. Chad, however, was only accelerating, writing newsletters, collecting NDE evidence of Mormon prophecies, in addition to hosting podcasts, talking about how to best stockpile goods and where the safest places in the United States would be to ride out the apocalypse.

Rexburg. And honestly, if I. If that's the only safe place, then kill me. Yeah, I did a Google walkthrough of Rexburg cuz I've never seen. I just want to look at it. Not impressive.

No, no. It's a town of 35,000 people. Now, as far as the best location, when the seals began to open went Chad. That's seal number four.

Yeah. The tight one.

Yeah. Starts real loose. Yeah. It gets tighter as it goes on.

Well, that's pestilence.

Chad believed that he found the perfect place. While on vacation with his family in 2014, while at a gas station in a small town near Yellowstone National Park, Chad had a vision that ordered him to move to Idaho.

You wouldn't believe it. I was sitting there, I was filling up obviously my Dodge Ram. Yeah, filling it up, all $95 of it. And I saw this little square hovering above where the gasoline prices were. And in that little vibrant square it said, come to Idaho. And I was like, no.

Is the end of the world supposed to be started by the geysers in Yellowstone?

That's one theory. Yeah.

Technically not the safest place.

No, no, no. The super volcano is going to fucking destroy Idaho first.

That is also one of the main features of the Mormon like post apocalyptic world is rampant volcanoes.

Yeah.

Which is hilarious.

Yeah. Well, Chad's vision told him that there was a town called Rexburg which would become a sacred place where the righteous 144,000 could survive the apocalypse. Because Rexburg, Idaho was destined to be the so called new Jerusalem. Now, Chad didn't really discuss the move to Idaho with his wife Tammy or His five children. Instead he just kind of blurted it out at dinner.

The gas station told me we should move to Idaho.

Tammy was furious at first, but after Chad told her to pray on it, which is Christian speak for this is happening whether you like like it or not, Tammy reluctantly agreed. And so Chad moved his family to the mostly Mormon town of Rexburg in June of 2015. And Chad was almost immediately rewarded for his decision. His extremist Mormon views were quite popular in rural Idaho and he began doing local book talks and signings attended by like minded Mormons who also believed the end times were coming soon. Basically. By moving from Utah to rural Idaho, Chad had broken away from the mainstream LDS and was now able to target fringe LDS church members to join what would soon become a very small but highly dangerous cult.

It also can't be stressed enough how non urgent and how non serious this very deadly thoughts were. Like when you go and listen to them talk, it's so cuddly. It's so like oh shucks. Huh? You know, and it's not until you're listening to the words that you're like. Every single time they say something you're like that requires millions of people to die. Yeah, that's just called subjugation of a woman's body. That's like something like you're literally just like, you're just saying horrible things.

Yeah, they're saying it very nicely. They're saying it in a very Mormon tone.

Mormony.

Now, since Chad was connected to the successful Near Death Experience author Julie Rowe, he had enough credibility to attend Near Death Experience conferences as well as New age gatherings that were more focused on psychic healing and crystals.

Imagine the insurance for a near death experience.

That's so funny. The idea of like being like you're yo. So you're going near death. I don't know. Will there be saw blades everywhere? Is it all on a broken sheet of ice?

But concerning those New Age gatherings. In the last 20 years, the new Age movement has shifted to share far more beliefs with right wing extremists than they do with San Francisco hippies. RFK Jr is a prime example of this bullshit. And the Near Death Experience movement was one of the connections that brought these two groups together.

They said that if I just commit and I could get all the way to the Mormon apocalypse. And they said what? Lutris will be my voice? He said they're going to really kind of work on it. They're going to do some test some new kind of procedures up. I held my voice breath.

He takes is a near death experience, hopefully.

Well, yeah, it was near death experiences, but the thing that really fused new agers in the right wing together was COVID lockdowns, vaccines, you know that. All that shit. Yeah. Now, like, seeing like the new, like, new agers, like, are basically eugenicists at this point. Like, you know, if they die, they die. Like some people should die.

We're going to.

We're going to literally what they've been prepping for. They should be excited.

This is the problem.

They finally got the ball and they're like, all right, what are we doing?

I had the same thought. I had the same thought too. It's just like, oh, you mother. This is the plague. It was the plague. If the plague showed up and you.

All dropped the ball.

Yes.

Fucking morons.

Not this plague. We thought the plague would have more boils. We don't like this one. It's not good. What is it? A cough?

Now, even though Chad Daybell was a doughy looking, mumble mouth dad, jeans wearing SAP with a bad haircut.

Hey. He's also a bad author.

He used self depreciating humor and a goofy charm to win over crowds at conferences. And within just a few months, he'd collected even more followers from the fringes of the Mormon church. Now, incredibly, most of Chad's followers were women. But I think the reasons behind this are twofold. First, Chad Daybell is a coward, and men scared the hell out of him.

Yeah.

Second, I think his affable, goofy dad joke demeanor was disarming and kind of comforting. It's like having bad news delivered by a big fat, dumb dog.

That sounds nice. That.

Yeah.

Sorry, Mr. Zabowski, your test came back as you have anal cancer.

Good boy. You want a treat?

It's stage four.

Oh, that sounds cute.

You, Chad.

But in the end, I think Daybell's biggest strength that had nothing to do with gender was that he knew exactly what these crowds wanted to hear. And he knew how to regurgitate the ideas of other writers in a friendlier way. I also think there's something to be said about him being somewhat boring presence because the way he would deliver things made it sound like he was trying to sell you printer toner, which I think made what he was saying seem a little more real.

They all have the very same kind of flat effect.

Yeah. The cadence, it's very.

It's purposeful. It is done on purpose. He is doing it to sound like Tom Harrison.

Yeah.

And Tom Harrison is doing it to sound like Russell Nelson. They sound it's kind of like it's. It's a voice, it's a style like. And so people.

This is all. Shucks. I don't know about that.

And the best part is that because they keep getting pushed into the fringe deeper and deeper. I think that really what comes about is that how could I be dangerous?

Yeah.

I'm just this guy. I'm. I'm just talking my truth that this is. I didn't want to. I'm a humble messenger. You know, like, it's all of this horseshit where it's like they're all blood thirst. These are blood thirsty maniacs.

Yeah.

And want to act like they're not.

Yeah. But like if you look at say like Warren Jeffs, like, he's of course creepy because we know everybody. Everything about him, but underneath. But really like Warren Jeff when he just was out in the world before we knew everything about Warren Jeffs. Non threatening.

No, I, I know he's creepy.

Yeah, he's creepy. But ultimately what you're saying, like. But I'm. What I'm saying is that he is not someone that you would see as dangerous.

He doesn't seem like a threat.

Yeah, yeah. That's what non threatening means.

You know, those are all the ones, but those are the ones that are all based upon plural marriage. I have my, my. One of my big major theories is that Mormon cults can be broke down by specific Mormon sins. And what they don't want you to do and they, how they. They. Certain things are hinged on it. Like the blood atonement stuff is kind of based upon those. The two brothers that had a death cult. And then we have this that, you know, Warren Jeffs is all about literally just creating entire system in order to have sex with children. And then this is. That's kind of what Tim Ballard was doing too. And then this is about the gift of discernment. It's about flipping the entire Mormon church.

Yeah. But it's all. But you know, it's the. A lot of these things lie on the two original sins of Mormonism, which is polygamy and blood atonement.

Great.

Well, now that Chad was based out of Rexburg, Idaho, and he was gaining followers, other extremist Mormons began to listen to his claim that Rexburg was going to be the new Jerusalem. And nobody listened to Chad more than a group of Mormon survivalists called Preparing of People, or AKA Pap. See, Pap had started off as a group that organized conferences for Mormon survivalists, but they soon moved into Web design, marketing services, and videography. Before finding their true niche in podcasting, Pap had a series tap and a series of three podcasts. The title podcast Preparing a people for Papa. There's time to warrior up.

That is the worst name for a podcast I have ever heard.

Never heard anything worse. And there was Feel the fire. That's a little bit better.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That could be cooking. That could be hell. That could be all kinds of all kinds.

Camping.

Yeah. But more than anything, more than the books, conferences, or forums, these Pat. These Pap podcasts were what launched Chad Daybell as a leader. The host would constantly herald Chad Dabel as true prophet, and as such, preparing a people. Not gonna fucking let you do it again. They move their operations to rexburg, Idaho in 2017 to join Chad in the new Jerusalem.

I always said a Pap.

So after building up Chad for a while on their podcasts, Preparing a people began hosting conferences at Chad's home, where anywhere between 15 and 50 people, mostly women, show up to hear about Chad's apocalyptic prophecies.

Hey. Mostly old women.

Yes. The New agers amongst the crowd particularly enjoyed Chad's new interest, reincarnation, because Chad was now claiming that he'd lived 31 previous lives on all sorts of different planets across the universe.

I was a barber on Pluto. I was a bike messenger on Jupiter too. And I was just old Chad on. I was, matter of fact, just here on Earth, the craziest planet of all.

What's cutting hair like on Pluto?

It's very difficult due to the gravity issues. Very difficult to clean. It's cold. Very cold. Get an umbrella because yo. But don't worry if you don't like the weather. Wait an hour.

Well, at these gatherings at Chad's house, Chad would divine the past lives of church leaders, friends and celebrities. He would claim that Kim Kardashian, Elizabeth Taylor.

Yes.

Cleopatra.

No.

And Kim. Wow. Had all lived past lives as characters from the Book of Mormon.

So he likes Kim Jong Un.

Well, I think Kim Young was a evil character in the Book of Mormon.

Oh, okay, now, yeah.

Asian.

He was an Asian character in the Book of Mormon.

I am starting to see a bit of a trend with Chad Daybar.

Oh, very much so. Did you ever see the. You ever read the chapter of the. Did you read Visions of Glory?

No.

Did there is a chapter.

I don't have time.

Yeah, yeah, Well, I did. And the. There is a chapter in Visions of Glory in which Tom Harrison says that he can. Psychically, he met a man from. I believe I Forgot what island it was from. He met a man from, I want to say, was Polynesia. And he said that he touched his hand, and then he said that he saw the entire history of the Polynesian people, including all of the rape and murder that they did and how they were an unsophisticated group of island brutes. And so it seems that he took it from that.

Yeah, yeah, it seems like he definitely has a bias.

Yes, he does. He's racist. He's deeply racist. They both are, all of them.

Oh, all of them are. Yeah. And we're definitely going to get more into that on the next episode when we get into the other person in.

This story, our queen, Ned.

Now, during a speaking engagement in the fall of 2017, Chad met a fellow prepper named Melanie Gibb at a survivalist camp in Ogden, Utah, where people discussed their spiritual experiences and visions in addition to learning survivalist skills. Chad. Melanie hit it off. And a few months later, Chad introduced Melanie to the preparing a people group out of Rexburg. Melanie was so impressed that she opened her own Pap chapter in her home state of Arizona. Thank you for not interrupting.

I am. I understand it then.

And she even began appearing on Pap podcasts. Before long, Chad and Melanie were meeting up again at another Pap conference conference in Utah. But this time, Melanie brought along a friend. That friend was Lori Valo, and it's there that we'll pick back up for part two of our series.

Wow. This is just. I'm so happy that I got some of this rage out.

Yeah, a little bit.

I needed to get it out, I think so.

I think. I feel like, you know, I'm just calling it now. You do you. But I think you're gonna be calmer next one. I feel like you really did get some out today.

Yeah, I think so. And also next episode, we're going to be telling the full story of Lori Valo. And Henry doesn't get as angry about Lori Valo.

No. You know what it is about Lori Valo?

You like the way she looks. You know, you called her hot earlier.

She is. I do find her attractive, but I do think that she's the evil one.

Yeah.

So I'm a little bit. I like that we're about to get evil. Part two is going to get. We're going to see the other side. What really creates the actual very, very dark edge of Chad Daybell is going to be what Lori Valor brings to the table and her family, what she learned from her family, all this type of shit that's what's going to create this fucking evil toxic soup. And it's just going to get worse from here.

Lori Valo's family is a den of fucking vipers. And that when we talk about her family, you know, we're going to be getting, you know, don't worry if any of you out there are, you know, experts on this stuff. We're going to be talking about the White Horse prophecy, of course, the next episode. And we're of course going to be talking about Lori Fallow's father, the sovereign citizen.

Yeah.

Wow.

It really links together.

It all does. It's almost like every single group of villains in the United States of America are working together as a team and we are suffering as a result. But otherwise things are fine. And go check out someplace underneath. Run right now. Yes. Because they are really doing extremely deep work into the this. They're going to cover the Tim Ballard story. They're going to cover kind of things that I even dropped. But right now they're running through of the various sources of Mormon money because they're talking about this, these holdings, which is the actual. It's a. It's kind of a massive elephant in the room with all of these conversations because again, all of this humbleness hides the fact that they're sitting on a world changing amount of money. 200 billion, something like that. It's like a huge. It's a astronomical sum of money that they can do whatever they want with. And what's a going to be. We'll find out.

Also, if you want to watch something that pertains to this, watch the post apocalyptic game show the Hoopa Goo Game. It's very doomsday.

Yeah, yeah, we're. It's going to be it. You can see that on our YouTube page. If you go to, you know, just go to YouTube, type in last podcast on the left or the last podcast network and you can find all of our shows after the fact. But if you want to watch Hoopa Gogo Live and can participate in the show. When does Hoopa go air?

Yesterday. But there is. You could. The next one's going to be on March 6th at 6pm Pacific, 9pm Eastern all on Twitch TV, LPNTV.

And check out Good bud. We'll be live next week on the 27th and we might be taking a little trip.

To where?

We'll see.

All right, I'll tell you who is taking the trip.

Us.

We're in Dallas right now.

Seriously, come out. If you're in Dallas, come out. We're going to have fun. Tonight's going to be a great fucking show. We got a lot of stuff. We got tomorrow night.

Tomorrow night, the 22nd.

The 22nd. And then we have got dates. We're going to be in the right. Come and see us at the Ryman if you're in Nashville. We're going to have so much fucking fun. We have the Ryman, I believe. Then we are going to Huntsville, Alabama for side stories.

Yeah, that's going to be blast on the 16th. And we're coming for you, NASA. We are coming.

The proof.

All right, I really need to go to Werner von Braun's grave.

Oh, we are going.

Is he there?

I'm almost positive he's buried there.

I looked it up. He isn't.

He is there.

Oh, we should totally go to Werner von Braun.

We can do some Roman salutes. Marcus said this. And I want to remind you, go to Last podcast on the left.com to buy those tickets. That is where you want to go. If you just look up Last podcast on the left live, they will take you to seat like scammers, ticket scammers. Which apparently is. It's horrible. We can't do anything about it.

Yeah, we get. We, we, we seriously. We are not charging $350 for a fucking ticket. We are like that. Those are resellers. We just can't fucking. We can't do anything about that unless we created our entire ecosystem of ticket selling apparatuses.

It's very difficult.

So if you want to buy resell Tickets, go to eddytunes.com I'll be reselling the tickets myself.

That's a good idea. Double dipping. That's really. I can't fault that.

And you can also get tickets to my tour, Invasive Species, the Ed Larson Tours Florida. So if you're in Florida in March, March or May, I'll be coming to your town. Hopefully. If you're in Tallahassee, Panama City, Jacksonville, Dania Beach, Orlando, Naples or Key west, check that out.

And you also can see us again. Contact in the desert 2025. From May 29 to June 2, we are going to be there. We're going to be doing several shows over the weekend. We're going to be around doing stuff we not. It's not finalized quite yet what we're doing.

Yeah. And whatever shows we're not on, we will be heckling.

So be there, be in the crowd. Because we already walked one. Michael Sedona is not coming back.

He's not.

He said our spiritual attack on him caused him to lose £25. Are you? Yes. He says our satanic spiritual attack on him ruined him and that he had to go into spiritual recovery. He had to go into a prayer monastery. Like he had to do all of this shit.

This is a man who supposedly fought aliens.

Yeah.

The guy with. The guy with the lasers. Yes. That sang the song.

Yes.

And so we. We hurt him by going there and by talking about how insane he is.

Yes.

All right.

It's awesome. So we will be the ones burning the effigy of the World Trade center this year, and we cannot wait. If you want to help us, if you want to send in a paper Brichet World Trade center, go to the P.O.

Box.

P.O. box 470, North Hollywood, California, 91603. If you're a lucky listener, who sends in the first World Trade center paper mache diorama. That's the one we're going to burn live. I'm contacting you.

All right, that's it. Later on.

Hail Satan again.

Hail Gladys Knight, the own. I tried to find a cool Mormon and that's the only one I could find.

She's Mormon, huh?

She converted in 1990.

Okay, that's. That's fine.

Yeah, I know. It's. What are you gonna do?

What about the Pips?

I don't think they joined her. Oh, they stayed Christian.

Yeah.

Makes sense.

Pips can't be Mormon.

I love the Pips.

Pips away. That's too exciting. Pip.

Tallahassee. What's going on? Ed Larson here from Last PA Podcast on the left to let you know I'm coming to you. That's right. I'm gonna be at the 926 Bar and Grill on March 23rd doing some stand up and some music with my good friends Evan Rossi and Danny Bedrosian. You know, the keyboard player from Parliament Funkadelic.

What?

He's performing live with Ed Larson in Tallahassee. Yes, it's happening, so come on out. March 23, Tallahassee, Florida, to see Ed Larson, Danny Bedrosian and Evan Rossi perform at the 926-bar. You might just get a public subject.