Transcript of Kate Berlant

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Good Hang. We are very excited about our guest today. It is Kate Berlant, comedian, writer, actress. And if you know Kate's work, you are obsessed with her. And if you don't know it that well yet, you are going to become obsessed because Kate is here and we are obsessed with her. And we're gonna talk about so many good things today. We are gonna talk about, um, Well, chimney sweeps. We're going to talk about our obsession with our phone. We're going to talk about how men actually feel about funny women. And we are going to talk about her new comedy special, Parmesan, which is on HBO, out right now, and is so good, and I cannot recommend it enough. Before we get talking to Kate, we always do something on our show where we talk to someone who knows our guest, has a question to give me about our guest, and we are going to talk to another Fellow hilarious performer, writer, actor, John Early. You might know John from Search Party. You might know John from Maddie's Secret and the many various hilarious videos and specials that him and Kate have done together.

So let's see if we can get John on the phone or the Zoom, however we're talking to you, John. Hi! Hi! This episode of Good Hang is presented by PayPal. Brighten up the start to the festive season by getting ahead of the holiday rush. Shop your favorite online stores with PayPal this holiday, like Sephora for gift sets, Target for toys and electronics, and TikTok Shop for fashion, apparel, and gadgets. Check out with the flexibility to pay now or pay later, and split your payments with Pay in 4 with no interest, no late fees. Shop now with PayPal. Pay in 4 subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com/payin4. PayPal

John?

Amy? Oh my God, it worked!

Amy?

You know what I never really noticed and I'm noticing right now? How blue those eyes are of yours.

Shut up. That's really sweet. Well, they are.

They are blue.

I'm kind of far back, or you're kind of far back. Are you? You're blue.

I'm blue as well. Yeah.

Okay, well.

And I just read somewhere that we should be wearing sunglasses all the time.

No,

you're kidding. Yes.

Because it's, it's where we're more susceptible to like vision

To

damage—

Sun damage eyes. Sun damaged eyes.

Wow. I have 20/20. No offense.

Brag! No, I do not. You still have 20/20?

I still do, somehow.

That's incredible.

Thank you.

I do not. I've got reading— I've got glasses for reading, and it's going downhill really fast.

Kate has reading glasses. You guys could talk about that.

John Early, it is really good to see you.

It's so good to see you. I'm so starstruck.

You're nuts.

I am.

John, right back at you. You know, we were, we were watching, we were rewatching Vicky with a V and Maddie's Secret before we got on. And we were, we were saying like, there's certain people when they, um, when they portray female characters that it feels like aggressive.

Yeah.

Yeah. And you—

they're working through something.

They're working through something.

And I clearly am too.

But well, we all are.

It's maybe, it's maybe more, um, coming from some sort of childlike longing and not necessarily an aggression.

No, it feels very nice. It feels like, it feels very like, it just makes me feel nice and safe. It does make me feel weird.

Oh my God. Thank God.

For people that don't know, you and Kate have created so many works of art together.

Thank you.

And you are like partners, but not partners. You do your own separate things always, but when you come together, there's like this special language. Like, there's a comedy language, but it always consists of this very thrilling, deep dive into something. Like, it's always really deep and always funny.

Thank God.

When did you first meet Kate? Let's talk about that origin story.

We first met when I was— I guess we were both like 24, which was last year. And we met— okay, we met basically doing our mutual friend's comedy show.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, I just had never met someone around my age who was as funny as, like, my idols, you know?

Yes.

It was so crazy. I always figured, you know, the people around me were all going to be kind of collectively trying to get to that level. We'll spend their whole lives and we'll always— and we'll always fail, you know, we'll always fall short. But I was like, she is just, like, right there. She's already there. She's, like, already in a Christopher Guest movie, you know? In my mind. And that night when we were separating, we were just kind of like, we kind of like said our vows to each other. And we were like, let's have a sleepover tomorrow.

Mm-hm.

And we just like started our friendship the next day. We just like knew. And I went over to her apartment and we just did not separate really until she moved to LA. We spent like almost every single day together, every night together. I would literally run out of clothes. I would run out of underwear. And from spending the night at her apartment so much, and I would just go to CVS and get a pack of Hanes. And I'd wear the same shirt and pants every day. And I would just run out of Hanes and go get a new pack.

Because you're like, there's no way I'm leaving this apartment.

I'm not going back to my apartment. I refuse. And Amy, we slept in the same bed. And we literally— and the room was as big as the bed. Like, there was a foot of space on one, two sides of the floor. tucked into a corner, you know? And we would just— we slept like angels. Like, that was the first thing we noticed. It was like, we were like, what is this, like, otherworldly sense of comfort we have with each other that we can share a bed?

I'm sure you've been asked to explain this, but the stuff that you guys did together, how would you explain that type of comedy if you were to have to explain the style of it? I can try, but I'd like to hear— I'd like to hear what you say.

Okay. Um, okay. Yeah, it is really hard. I mean, obviously, one thing that we love to do is, like, you know, passive aggression.

Yes.

You know, we love it so much.

Why do you love it so much? Why do you— why does Kate love it so much? Why do you love it? I mean, I do too, but what do we love about it?

Well, I think, I think I love it because I come from, like, the South, which is like a really, you know, you could say the birthplace of passive aggression. Yes. Like, I come from kind of like Protestant world where like that is just in the water. It's just like you don't express your anger, so it has to come out another way. I think for Kate, she's been around a lot of authoritative, artistic people. And I think maybe that's where it comes from, is like people who speak with a kind of like, I mean, avant-garde authority or whatever. It's like there's a way that that can be incredibly hostile, you know, while even if you're speaking in this very measured academic way, you know, you're like— and so maybe that's where it comes from for her. Yes.

There's like a way in which you guys play around, and in her new special she does— in Parmesan, her new special, she does this where you play around with superiority. Like, that's what you put that coat on and take it off. And of course, the other side of that is inferiority, always.

Right. It's like— and I think that if we're playing people who— and this is, I think, actually Kate's specialty, is like this foolishness of authority and, you know, yeah, pretentiousness. That's so well said. I hope so.

The certainty part is so true. because especially, like, in today's culture, like, we're surrounded by experts.

It's so intense. And I really— I think it's time for Kate to kind of, like, seize her throne as, like, the great imitator of those things. She really can, like— What's so crazy about working with her is, like, I mean, it's awful for me because it's like, I'm, like, across from her, and I'm like, cool, I have nothing. I'm just like, how do you— I'm always shocked.

I'm very sorry, but I disagree. I feel like I'm gonna say it right here, Jon, that your volley is— it is like Agassi and Sampras. I believe they played together. I hope they did. But it is that— the back and forth is— it is Federer and Nadal.

Thank you. Excuse me. Well, you'll notice that I'm always— I'm like always screaming.

Yeah. Well, louder is funnier.

Well, I think she's also— and I'm sure you'll get into it minute one, but, you know, she's an only child. Oh, yeah. And so there's like, there is such a— the only child has to like entertain themselves in the mirror, you know?

Right.

And she comes, you know, artist father, like, you know, she was around these very— at a very young age. I mean, she was like under the table, you know, as like with all these like kind of very like genius LA modern artists, abstract artists, probably having incredibly pretentious, indecipherable, illegible conversations, you know? Incredible. And so I think she literally learned before she was, like, even conscious. She learned how to, like, imitate, just, like, absorb those sounds and, like, to— in order to participate because she was bored.

Yes.

You know?

Okay. Do you have a question for Kate today? Anything you think I should ask her?

I have a few that you should pick from.

Okay, great.

Like, some of them are just— they're kind of inside jokes.

Great. Perfect.

But I actually think if you get into them, they will be deep.

Fantastic.

They'll be generative. Okay. So one is, do you miss Paris?

Fantastic. Do you miss Paris? Perfect question.

One is, uh, do you think you're funny?

Oh, incredible. In Kate's special, she goes deep on this idea that comedy isn't funny, and it's incredible because I agree.

Yes, it's not funny. And also, this is like, this is something that we, we make ourselves laugh very, very hard. We'll just like, if, if like suddenly a silence falls, like there's like a lull in the conversation, I'll be like, do you think you're funny? And then we'll try to answer, and she'll do it back to me. Like, do you think you're funny? And then I'll be like, do you think I'm funny? And then we're like, um, can I be honest? It's a favorite inside joke. Fantastic. But I do think it's an inside joke. But if you actually ask her, something good could come out. Great. One is, how are the kids?

Those are perfect questions.

Um, one is related to the special. So, are you gay or what?

Yep, we're gonna get into it. Hopefully Kate really talks about how she's gay. That's— I guess that's the way— the fastest way to put it.

Yeah.

Yep. Okay, great.

Are you gay or what? The final one is, shoes on or off?

Shoes on or off?

Like, as a host.

These questions are incredible.

And did you get my email about Kate's no-fly zones?

No.

I'm gonna look— It's really long.

Okay. Good to know. I'm gonna look at it right now.

Good.

Good. Thank you for that. Thank you for that.

'Cause she doesn't have a manager, and no one will represent her, so I've taken it on as we're doing this special.

Thank you for that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's important to see. And thank you for bolding everything in all caps. I appreciate that.

Okay. Okay.

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Keep moving on. Who's that? You gotta get in like this, Amy. You're like that fast now. 'Cause they're who?

We gotta— we gotta get you in frame. We cannot speak unless we're rolling.

Yeah, yeah, don't scroll past.

You look amazing.

There were lipsticks in the green room. Yeah. And I thought, I was like, God, this is so classy. Like everyone who comes, you get like, you get this huge box of lipsticks and I'm going, mm, I'm looking at the colors. And then I asked and they were like, oh yeah, Jennifer Lawrence left those a few months back.

Yeah.

And so you've had months, you have had months of guests who look at that, they go, I'm fine, I don't need to engage in that. I look at it, I already text it to my mother, my partner, my best friend. I'm like, we made it.

And I'm taking it home. Actually, now you have to because you've touched all of them.

Exactly. Well, they were, they were unused. So I go, well, this is definitely a gift. This is a promotional gift.

It is. It absolutely is a gift now. It is. You're taking all of those lipstick home.

Anything free.

Kate Berlant is here. Kate, on the drive over here, I just wanna give you, I wanna give you a compliment. I'll give you many.

I receive them well. I'm not one of these, who, me? No. I'm like, please. Okay. Okay.

Driving over here, I was filled with glee because I was like, this conversation is going to be so fun, so funny, so deep. I love seeing you and never get to, and like, this is a chance to just actually hang out with you.

Yeah,

I loved your special. I watched it last night. It's so good.

Thank you for watching it. Thank you.

You're welcome, because I don't always watch all of the things.

Well, I figured I was doing dishes last night and I go, by the way, She's not gonna watch it, and that's fine. I know she's so busy.

Sometimes I just like, I can't get to it.

If you had said to me, you know I love you, I couldn't watch it, girl. I would've been like, of course, you have so much to do. The media that you're— it's too much.

I couldn't wait to watch it, and all of us watched it. Love it. But more than that, you are this giant brain, avant-garde, interesting artist who is also warm and nice. It's hard to find those 2 things.

Thank you.

Sometimes people are, like, really nice, but maybe not adventurous in their art. And sometimes people are, like, really prickly, sharp, interesting artists who maybe don't want to talk.

Yeah.

You, to me, are, like, the perfect combination of those 2 things. You talk about things that I am obsessed with. Everything in your special, it's hitting me in such a deep way. And I love your work and you. So, Kate Berlant is here. Okay.

Bye. By the way, that was all on a prompter just for people at home. It seems authentic. She, I saw her and I go, and then everything she said. Um, no, I love you so much. You're, thank you. That's like, I, I, that's such kind words. That means so much to me. And I grew up with a picture of you on my wall. I mean, this is the thing that we get to that won't, you know what? I've told you this. I had the Upright Citizens Brigade manifesto printed out on where the words, where the text gets really, really tiny at the bottom. Yes. Like I'm very,

We have had the pleasure of being in each other's simulations for a lot of our lives. We have. And like the topics that you talk about always speak to me. But this latest special is—

Oh, I can't wait.

Okay. I want to start there before we get into the bigger picture of your life because it is so top of mind. And you talk about the things that I love— phones and our love of my— my phone is my best friend. Hair.

Yeah, I talk about hair.

Well, I talk about your hair in my mind when I watch you.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Thank you.

You don't talk about hair, but I want to talk about your hair. It is—

I got a haircut 3 days ago. Can you believe it? The one that cuts my hair, she's amazing.

That's you with a haircut?

Gu on Fairfax. Go get her. She goes a few times, I go, shouldn't we cut like an inch? Just an inch? She goes, I want extreme length for you. And those words, I want extreme length for you, I want extreme length for you. And now people, I'm like, it's extreme length. I'm not gonna go— well, I'm not going waist.

I noticed that your hair was longer than usual, and I was thrilled by it. I love extreme length for you.

Okay,

thank you. Also, you talk about the hell of being a woman and how you'd rather have it no other way, basically. Like, the combo of what we are always negotiating with and that we wouldn't trade it for anything. That's what it feels like when I hear your work. Yeah. And so, for people who are maybe getting to know Kate for the first time on this podcast, Kate is a comedian and actress and artist. And she has a new special on HBO called Parmesan. And I would, if you don't mind—

I forgot the word! You're laughing, then don't even bother tuning in.

I mean, but why is it called Parmesan?

Why is it called Parmesan? So, you know, you hear this thing, people go, oh, here's a temp title. I'm not gonna call it Parmesan. That would be insane. And it's one of those things that just, I, it was just, it was making me laugh cuz it was just so ridiculous and stupid. Yes. I think like I was talking to Chelsea Peretti and she was like, oh, you're doing a, a special. What's it called? I said Parmesan. And she just laughed. And I was like, okay. Cuz it, it's just so deeply unserious and ridiculous. And what could that possibly relate to? And by the way, the special isn't about food in any way. Right.

Even though you, you love to talk about food and you love restaurants.

I mentioned restaurants. Yeah. But, but, uh, but no, Parmesan, if, when, when you watch the special, you'll see it does reference a joke in the, in the special. But, and, and not to

To spoil the joke, but it's about this idea of what we comment on, what draws us to comment as people on social media and on our phones, like what we think is a way in which we're gonna connect with what we're reading and the existential dilemma of that.

Yeah.

Can you talk a little bit about how addicted you are to your phone? Because I am too, and I genuinely, genuinely, genuinely am.

I relapsed so hard.

So do you have work or program?

By the way, I have gone to ITAA meetings, Internet Technology Addiction Anonymous. I don't know if I'm supposed to say that.

I actually would—

No, they're— I would love that.

Save a seat for me as they go.

I've done the Zooms twice, but, but still, I was still— I shared. But I like— we do need help because we are in the fight for our lives.

Yes.

And it's the kind of thing that it's become— it's like the weather. It's like this thing that we're just in and it kind of feels like Why bring it up? Why talk about it? But I can, you know, I've gone on, on— I had 6 weeks of sobriety. I did a 6-week cleanse. Nothing. I've done, I've done a month a few times.

Okay. Can you just step me through this? What do you mean by nothing?

Okay, so nothing. Me in a room. No. So what it is, is by nothing, I mean no social media whatsoever.

Yeah, sure.

So I still have email and I'm still texting 24/7 and doing anything else.

But no scrolling.

No scrolling.

And no— yeah. And not looking at Instagram Reels and TikTok.

No social media.

And no social media. Not posting anything.

None of that.

Yes.

And the 6th week was really good. And I said, I go, I'm not going back this time. I like was telling everyone, I was like, no, I'm out. Yeah, no, I'm out. I'm, I'm out. And I am right back. And like last night I found myself, I was like, got home late and I was like, I've had a long day of working. You know what? I'm gonna unwind. I'm gonna curl up on the couch and I, And I'm— and that's the moment when it becomes infused with this feeling of rest. Like, this is rest and it's not. It's actually chipping away in the digital labor mines. And so I, you know, and I'm like,

yes.

And so, I mean, I have it in the bath now.

Of course I have it in the bath.

Of course. Because, because I was doing baths, no phone. And I go, baths, no phone. And suddenly it's 1904 and I'm a novelist. And it's like, and by the way, when you go off your phone, I have found 3 weeks of no scrolling.

Mm-hmm.

Memories. I'm driving, childhood memories. Like, it's unbelievable. I'm like, I'm back in the kitchen and I'm 10 years old and my father comes in. Like, it's like my brain is like, thank you. It's opening up and it's flooding me with images. And it's like, you just start to think again. You start to be more intimate with your life. And that's the thing that's the most devastating. We can talk about, of course, the, the, you know, the, this, the horror machine of this and like the fascistic machine of it and all of that. Yeah. But then just on the base level, like on a personal psychological level, like you've lost all intimacy with yourself. And like, that's the, that's the, the crisis of it. It's just so devastating. And once you get a little bit of that intimacy, you're like, all right, no, this is actually, this is really medicinal.

I mean, this is why I love talking to you. You can, we can go deep end so fast. And then you also have jokes. Okay. Me? Um, another thing that chilled me to the bone and made me laugh out loud. While I was listening to your special on my phone— I watched it on my phone. I'm so sorry. Is the idea about how men say they want to be with funny women, but they hate funny women.

Let's go there.

Honey, it is— it's giving me a flush right now, actually, to think about it. It was so funny. Now, the idea, the sentiment of like, Funny women being a threat isn't necessarily a new one.

Right, of course.

But the way in which you present this idea, which is, let me just for a minute trouble this and present what men actually want.

Yeah, yeah.

What do you think, in your way, that is? Like, can we talk about that for a second? How did you come up with this idea? Just a lifetime of being funny?

No, I can actually tell you. So, there's this central memory, which I've been a ham and a goof since I was a baby, right? I remember, so I went to an all-girls school and I'm strong. If my girls are going to single sex, okay. You got to separate the girls.

Did you like single sex school? Did you like it?

What do you think, sweetie? Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, free and then never free again. Graduated and was never free. Yeah. No, I, I like, thank God. And I started comedy. I did standup for the first time when I was 17 at my high school.

So it's like, I read this in the basement of your high school.

Yeah. Yeah. So, but anyway, but so I was always, of course, you know, the class clown, all of that. And then I rem— One day after school, I was 14, 15, maybe 15, after school with really cool and like a cool guy. Like after school, there's like 2 cool guys in the room, drum kit, listening to Neil Young Harvest. Like, what's this? ASPQ. Like doing that.

Yeah.

With my friend who's a gorgeous like PacSun model, you know, like truly. And she's over there and I'm here like, like talking to the guys. Yeah. And this guy who was like the really popular cool guy, he was laughing and he was like, God, you know, you're really funny. I was like, yeah. And he was like, you should be careful though. Guys don't like funny girls 'cause it reminds them too much I remember I was leaning against the wall. I was sitting on the bed like this, leaning against the wall. And it was like, by the way, thank you for the truth and the honesty.

I was gonna say that. I was gonna say that's an unbelievable gift.

There it is.

There it is.

And

he was not wrong.

I heard it. It went in and I went, yeah, I'm gonna carry this weight for the rest of my life. And it, and it was like, It's really— so yeah, I've been kind of like teasing that out.

Yes. Well, because also there's the bigger thing also behind it is there's obviously like, to be funny is to be a little embarrassing. And men hate being embarrassed.

Everyone's like, why? It's like, no, it's because you're going good. It's like, that's why they're not kissing you. But it is, it's like, it's, but it's confusing, manifold. And by the way, if you— I want to just to say this to clear the record. Of course there are guys who like funny— of course. I've dated them. You've dated them. We've all— Have we though? Of course they exist. No, it's like, this does exist. It is true. It's like, if you're doing comedy, you're, you know, it's a historically masculine role, you know, in society, whatever. It just creates this like rupture. It's like a weird like gender performance thing that people are like, oh, like it just, it's,

Yes, rupture, exactly right. A

divine rupture, I might argue. A divine rupture.

One that's needed in our culture. There's people who were voted class clown women, and in my school, the class clowns that were women were like bad, bad girls.

You know what's funny? So I was a good girl in the sense that I slept at the foot of my parents' bed, you know, my entire life. Emotionally, I was at the foot. And so I was like a good girl, like loved school, loved my friends, was like, teacher, teacher, you know, like I, you know, Um, but I did have a little bit of like the, the mischievous, like, okay, I, so a bit of a prankster, benevolent pranks, never hurt anyone. Yeah. But I'm recalling live, which is amazing cuz on the drive here I go, what are the stories? What's my life? And there's nothing. And then I'm going, it's coming up. It's, it's happening. I'm having memories. Okay. Okay. So like something that I used to do was, you know, like the big dropdown. This is, this is, I could be arrested for this actually. The big dropdown maps, like at school of the world and of America. Oh yeah. Yes. So my little thing that I did is like, I'm gonna steal those for my, for my bedroom. So I, uh, so I would jump up, unscrew them, and walk out. And if you're walking, if you're 16 and you're walking with the, the map of the world out of the class, they go, oh, well, she's supposed to do that.

Obviously someone asked her to move that to the basement or whatever. So I really got my rocks off doing that. And I do have a bit of a klepto. I've squashed it.

I, I, but I also have a bit of a klepto.

Well, I mean, women and, and stealing. and kleptomania is very interesting. Yeah. And very— and because in a world where we feel like, you know, we've been stolen from, it's the only—

I love what you said about makeup, about how you feel that women should be able to steal.

Oh, safely and from big, you know, not mom and pa's, but from the big guys. Take a little blush. It's fine. Take blush. Yeah. Yeah.

We deserve it.

You're owed that blush. 'Cause the blush is mandatory.

Yeah. Right. And nobody's paying for it. Yeah. The government is not paying for our blush.

Tampons and blush, that should be free.

And then you also speak about the difference between dating men and dating women. 'Cause in the special, you, congratulations, you are gay now.

Congrats. Bye, Amy.

Confused Amy. Okay.

I say gay as a shorthand 'cause a lot of people now, you know, bisexual, you know, bisexual femme walks in, they go, oh, what? You kissed a girl in the 8th grade? Right? And I'm going, no, I'm living that life actually.

Right.

Yeah. I mean, this is so funny 'cause I talk about something special. Like, you talk— I'm genuinely obsessed with sexuality, my sexuality. And it's like, I also think there's this— like, I grew up with this narrative of like, if you, you know, come out later in life, it's because you had this secret and you were like jerking off in private and you're like, no, no, no, you know what I mean? It's like, that's not what my life was at all.

Yes.

Like, I just was like always with men. I fell in love with a woman, this like other like room opened, and I was like, oh

yes.

And then of course, and then I reflect back and I go, oh my God. And so then I can like, wait, wait, wait. So was it always— I was like, my obsession with my PE teacher in, you know, 4th grade. I'm like, what's that? She was gay. Yeah, yeah, they all were. No, but, but like, I go back and, and so— but I guess I'm less interested in like locking into a certain category, mostly because I think what's interesting is like failing. And what's funny is like failing within those categories. Like, I'm a failed straight woman for sure.

Yes.

But I'm still like, I love the mall and I love a beautiful, you know, like, it's like, like Like, so what? But then, but, but I, but like, I'm also like a failed gay woman,

right? If I may, the thing you said, which I have never heard articulated, which— and, and that's why it was so incredible, because you're, you're straight, because you've kind of lived in both worlds. Hot. It's hot, right?

It's hot. Okay, sorry. Yeah, yeah.

Because you've lived in both worlds, the perspective of from kind of being like on the other side, looking almost like back at what was like a way of living. And the realization that you came to, which is just, again, the comedic realization, but like all of your stuff steeped in such truth, is that heterosexual relationships between men and women kind of are often helpful to women who don't want to be seen. And it is—

There it is. It is That's what fascinated me because I was like— and by the way, I've had beautiful relationships with men, but it's like, it's really fascinating to— I did when I kind of started to like be in like gay relationships. I was like, oh, like, are— I truly was like, okay, are all women— are women— I believe that straight women exist, but is that also—

For people listening, Kate made a face.

But, and I, and I was like, but is that also just their way of being left alone? In a way. And I was like, and there's validity to that. And, and like, obviously I'm also speaking like, everyone relax, okay? I know there's straight people that are in love and they're, you know, screaming, laughing, whatever. But, but there is, there is this inherent, um, distance. There's always distance between people, even in queer relationships, of course.

Yes.

But there is this like, there's this deep distance between men and women. And I am also— I think it's hard when you're, when you're Canadian, when you're a class clown, I mean, you're an actor. Mm-hmm. I can really love the performance of being of femininity. Oh yeah. And God bless. And I'm attracted to masculinity. I love that performance. So I think there's something, there's something that is always strange when it's only when people don't know they're performing that it starts to get scary.

That's exactly right. Like, it was one of my questions I wanted to ask you, which is you're very good at this. And we work with a lot of people that are good at this, which is we can mirror what people want us to be. Yeah. Like, or like we can just get in there and just be like, I'm this person. And the question for you is like, I I think the part of growing up and figuring yourself out is knowing that's actually expensive. It takes something. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Oh, the way that the full performances I'm doing in case someone sees. I was just talking about this on my podcast, Poog. But airplanes are really places where these performances and gender really comes pronounced. So the other day, I was getting onto a plane, and I had carry-on luggage to put overhead. And there was a guy right opposite. And I kind of did this thing and he was like, oh, like, do you want help with that? Whatever. I was like, yeah, do you mind? Sorry. You know, whatever. And then he lifted it up. And then I said to him, I don't know why I go, I have a shoulder thing I'm trying to not aggravate.

And you made that up.

So yeah, completely, completely fake. And then I found myself going, oh shit, now I have to kind of like do this shoulder injury. I had another bag, a lighter bag to lift up. And so I kind of lifted it up, but in kind of like a, like I tried to overcompensate, you know? And by the way, he very well is buried in a book. He's not even looking. But I'm locked into the performance, lest he glance over. And then when we landed 6 hours later, I go, time to get the show back on the road. And then I was doing kind of, you know, kind of—

For who?

For who?

Who is watching? I know.

But don't you kind of think they're watching?

Well, you know who's watching? I'm watching. Like, that's the thing is like the idea that like, who are we? Like, what self is the real self is a nonstop Delightful journey for me.

It's absolutely endless. And it's like, this is— and this is where also sex— sorry, I said it, someone had to— First time it's mentioned here. It's like, like, and that's why I think honestly, class clowns— and this is what can get hard, funny on funny, 2 class clowns in bed, it can get complicated. You're right. Like, that actually sounds like, oh God, I don't know. Yeah, you kind of need someone to go snap the— like, yeah, no, you need someone to be like, fuck, like unselfconsciously. Yes. Like Because I do— it's complicated.

I'm obsessed with your relationship to your own body on stage because, like, to be looked at is already so intense. And the way you use your body to, like, ground yourself in performance is so interesting for me to watch. You, like, like a dancer, I can feel the way that you— when, I don't know, when it feels like you regulate your thoughts or anxiety or emotions by the way you move.

No, I'm laughing. I love it. 'Cause I've never heard, no one's ever seen me before, so thank you. Being seen for the first time live. But, um, no, but, but it is actually, you're right. I've never, no one's ever said that or put that. No one's ever put this to me in, in these terms, but it is how I self-regulate. Like, there is like, even like, it's like, it's like, it's like that is, yes. No, no, you are correct. And like, I, you know, love physical comedians. Like I, oh, that's always is what gets me. And like, I've made crazy faces. I can't stop. Help, you know. But, but that is how I get back inside my body, I think.

Yeah, it made me think about my own stuff.

Me during sex. It's like, oh God, no. But yeah.

Yeah, it made me think about like, my— I just did it now, like my own laughing. Like, I love to laugh. And everyone's like, I love to laugh. And laughing is so good for us. And also laughing for me is expelling anxiety. Like, it is a way to just like, get— shake out whatever is the feeling that I'm having. And anytime dancing is the same way for me. But it takes me so long to realize that that is why I'm doing something. Because I think especially if you're like, in the comedy world, or you're like a big thinker, like you're just like, our brain, we just— I use— I'm like brain forward a lot. And I have to remind myself I have a body.

Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. This, no, no, no, no.

Okay. Um, anesthesia culture. You talk about—

Yeah, I talk about anesthesia culture. Look it up if you have to educate yourself now.

It's so funny, you guys. Fuck, I can't give away the joke, but please watch it. But why you talk about this idea that when we're under and we come to how cocky the people are that we're awake.

It's a, no, we, we can talk about it. It's a throwaway moment in the special. I guess you could say.

So funny.

But I talk about, um, kind of going— not enjoying going under anesthesia.

Yes.

Because I don't like waking up and the idea that everyone in the room is like laughing at you, that you've been asleep the whole time. Like, it's like if you're a performer, it's like you're— you have to go under to go off. Like, people, it's like, because it's like, I'm sure you're like me where it's like, oh, I can turn off. Of course, like comedians want to get serious. Like, we're like, but But the only time you're free— by the way, I'm hamming it up. As I was going under, I remember this, the guy was— as my anesthesiologist, I'm like, I'm like, God, you look like Griffin Dunne. Why the first one that's like— like, like, I was going so hard. Also, because if I'm nervous and if I'm in a medical situation— so I have a lot of medical anxiety. This is going to be— this is going to be the next special, because I just got like a completely unnecessary angiogram.

Oh, actually, I mean, we could talk about this forever, because you I'm obsessed with this idea that we are now giving ourselves too much information that's making us very stressed. Oh,

of course. Yes.

And so you had an angiogram.

I went a little hard on my neck with a HIZU. Instagram advertised to me this neck massager. I go, sure, bought it. And then I was going really, really hard and I go, oh, it's a little too hard there. And then I start looking up and I go, oh, well then the veins, the arteries here, you wanna be really careful. I go, the arteries. And then I texted my doctor and she really regrets the day she gave me that. And she was like, I'm sure you're fine, whatever. But I have that kind of sensation anxiety and stuff that I was like, oh, I think something. So then I call Cedars to talk to the doctor and they're like, well, we could order you a CT scan if you want to get an angio. Yeah. I mean, what's that? They go in, they inject your veins with die and the whole thing. And I go, well, that's insane. So I'm putting it off, putting it off. And then I go, I could do it next week. So then I'm being wheeled into the room and everyone, you know, they're taking, they do the tests and everyone's kind of looking at me because I'm by far the youngest people in this.

So I think people are kind of going, poor woman, like, what's going on with her? And so I start going, it's probably nothing. You know, Haizoo? Yeah. Went a little hard with the Haizoo, let's say.

Yeah. It's too much. Let's go to Kate as a child. Okay.

I skipped the whole kid thing. Yeah.

Yeah, you were born as an adult.

No, I'm 30.

Um, were you, as a little, little Kate in LA, in Los Angeles, artist parents—

That was really hard. Yeah, the rough side of Santa Monica.

I was gonna say, you were in Santa Monica. Yeah.

Um, not in the industry. They're not in the industry. Let's just get that out of the way.

What kind of artists are they?

Um, so my dad works in metal collage. It was funny, I was— this was huge for me a few years ago. There was like a New York Magazine piece about nepo babies, and they— and my face was in it next to like, like Chalamet. I was like, I'm famous? I'm like, what is this? And it was like, daughter of a sculptor. You know, I was like, trust me, doll, hasn't gotten me work. You know what I mean? And then, like, my mom did prop design, and she did make the Stonehenge prop in Spinal Tap, famously. So—

Wow.

And that was also there cited as nepotism. And I go, guys. A little bit of a stretch. It's a little bit of a stretch.

Yeah.

But my mom, um, my mom was a stay-at-home mom, if we can even say that now, right? They're taking that away. So, um, but, you know, a deeply creative person. Did you grow up with—

Did you grow up with— With artists around the house chatting about art.

Yes. That's all. I'm, I'm an only child. My parents' friends did not have kids. So it really was like me at the, at the dining, at the dining room table with the adults being like, all right, so I'm gonna say 2. And I think that was, you know, intensely informative.

And did you feel like, I mean, I'm sure you've spoken about it a lot. You might have talked about it in your, in your specials, but what is the only child dilemma? What is like the best? No. Or is there one? Is there one? Like, what's the good and bad thing about being an only child?

I don't know. I mean, I— having siblings, I don't know. I don't really like sharing my mommy. I don't think so, Amy. Number one, please. Yeah, so sharing my mommy would have been hard, but I think, you know, as you age, you go, oh, it would be helpful. But then also, you, you never know what you're gonna get. I mean, people have siblings and it's not like they're helpful when, when shit's falling apart. So yeah. So I don't know.

Well, your sibling relationship is often the longest relationship in your life, which I— and I was like, whoa. I read that and I was like, wow. Because that is— they, you know, like—

And don't complicate it with sex. Okay? Never. Because that's the thing that really— Don't shit where you eat, guys.

Exactly, guys. If you could take away one thing from Kate.

Yeah.

Um, so you're like this, like, precocious kid in a way. Were you— did you feel older than you were when you were a kid?

Yes. But I think, um, watching— I think so much of what But I, like, through mimicry, like, I remember, like, when I saw Erin Brockovich, I started doing my homework in heels, you know, like, like, like, for real. And I was like, yeah, I'm into this.

Yes.

And so I think that, like, watching movies, watching people, like, be smart or sound smart is kind of like Yeah, I'm gonna kind of just like take that.

Okay. And then you did some crazy early jobs. And is it true that you were a voice actor in Texas for a call-in radio show?

Oh my God. Yeah. Is that true? Okay. So, so, so what's that? I don't know where I got hooked up with this, but it was a thing where you would do like, so for call-in radio shows where they're like morning radio where they're like, yeah, so we got here, guy and a girl went on a first date. The girl, let's just say she doesn't have a face or whatever, you know? So it's like these, like these, and then, but they're being presented as real. So I would play and they'd go like, we got— we— okay, so we have her on the line. She has no idea that we're— that, uh, that we're listening in. So we're just gonna call. So I would pretend to be the person who's like, hello, you know? And, and I did, I think, like one. And yeah, it was like— and then the, like, the casting, whatever, was like— she was like, you're good at this. Yeah. She's like, you're good at this. Because there's one where I had to pretend to be crying. It's devastating. It was like they're humiliating this woman on air and I have to be like, Wait, what?

I'm on the radio? No. Like, really sad. I mean, that was a send-up, okay? I was doing it at Rose Grounded. I was Laura Linney with the— yeah, but like, of course. Um, but yeah, I did that a few times, and I think I'd get paid— I mean, I think I would, you know, I would get paid like $75 or something. I don't know. But it was horri— I'd have to wake up like 4 AM because that was the time to get— so they call me, I like wake up at that time and be like, oh my God, no. Yeah, whatever. That's so interesting. Yeah. And then I slept through one.

Oh, you missed your call.

They were like, they were like, we need you, Dallas radio, 7:00 AM. Who knows where I was? I, I woke up, I saw the missed calls. Fired. Never again. I get it.

Yeah.

They're gonna be really— They're gonna depend on you cuz of the radio.

Yeah. Yeah. And they, and they had to then on their side, they had to improvise like, oh, we can't get ahold of her. They must have been furious.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

I mean, there is hell hath no fury like a radio DJ.

They have to, the segment suffers and they can never bring you back.

And you know, we cannot talk about Like, your early, early career, like, starting out without talking about John Early. Speaking of early, because John Early and you— let's talk about John for a second. Because the way you guys interact together scratches a comedic itch for so many people. Why do you think that is? What is it that—

Amazing sex.

Yeah.

Yes.

When you can connect on that somatic level with someone, It can't help but reflect in the work.

Yeah.

Um, John, you know, it's like, it is like, you know, one of the great loves of my life, John Early. Like, we did— we are— we like met in this very like whirlwind, like romantic way where it was like we met and then in a very lesbian fashion, like we're inseparable. And he slept in my bed for like 3 years, right? And I was like, why can't I get a man? I was like, see, it's hard. It's different for me. Yeah.

Yeah.

And John, we met— yeah, we met on set of a friend's short film. And we had like— he'd messaged me on Facebook or something. And I was like, who's this? And then I watched a video of his and I was like, oh, he's really funny.

We were trying to break it down today because we're such fans of your work alone, of course, and with John. And with John, I'm not like the biggest— I get a little stressed when people come at each other pretty hard. Like, yeah, in comedy, like, I'm, I, I'm not a big roast fan, like, but the way you two gently knife each other in the stuff that you do is, like, fascinating to watch.

I think it's funny for us because, like, we don't— similarly, I don't want to be roasted or ever roast anyone. And, like, John is, you know, like, from the South, and, like, John's the last— like, so I think our— like, that's a place for us to, like, go there.

Yes.

But very much behind this, like, character mask, of course. But yeah, I don't know why. It's funny because we are like— there's been times over the years we've been like, but we're not mean. Like, like, people are like, you guys are vicious. Like, and it's like, no, it's not. Like, that's not what it is.

No, it's not.

I mean, I don't— I don't know exactly.

And it feels like there's like some border around it that's surface level, which is always so funny when people are not acting the way they're feeling. That's just like inherently funny.

Well, I think that's exactly what it is. And like, we just like the failed performance to say it again, like when people think that they're covering and they're not. And when people are using the social niceties to cover, like, and like, that is just heaven.

It's heaven. Me too. It's like when someone is angry and they are like trying to conduct a meeting or something is heaven.

Yeah.

How are you with conflict? What's your conflict style?

What do you mean? Sorry, say the word again. Conflict. Sorry, I missed it.

Like when something like that happens, do you I get filled with a little bit of excitement.

Adrenaline. Oh, you mean like—

Conflict is—

Watching people fight through the— my favorite thing in the world is screaming fight on the street, safely watching from the window. That and my heart's beating through my chest.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. Do you have a direct conflict style? Do you feel like— when you're angry about something, what does it look like?

It's a really interesting question that my therapist should be asking me, and she's not. So there's an issue there that we'll explore later. Yeah, you should be asking her. Maybe I withdraw.

I'm, I'm wondering.

I'm probably going to go with withdraw. Yeah. Gun to my head, withdraw. Withdraw. Yeah. For $100 million. Um, no, I think, um, I, I've talked about it a lot, so I won't get into it, but like I had a really upsetting incident with a chimney sweep a couple years ago. I'll just say quickly.

Just say quickly.

He came into my home, came into my home doing a chimney sweep. I go, I go, I go, oh, he has like no drop cloths. I go, okay, so now I'm getting into the forensic details, but I was like, white couch, white thing, I just moved in. I go, oh, do you have like— and this is, this is funny— do you have like drop cloths or anything? And he goes, and he kind of like laughs, he's like, I'm fine. And I go, okay, he's a chimney sweep. Well, I'm gonna come here, he knows how to do his job.

Yeah, God forbid.

So I go, okay, I'm gonna let you— I go into bed, I come back, Amy.

Oh no.

Soot on the white couch, soot on the curtain set, in the hallway. I go like this, there's soot, and I'm like, there's soot in the home. And he kind of did this thing like, I mean, gaslight city. By the way, and, and here's where I, here's, I, I paid, so not full, cuz I'm in there in the kitchen thing. And then I go, I can't pay full price. Get to the boss on the phone, this whole thing. He goes, maybe your house was dirty.

Yeah.

Sweetie, say it again. Maybe your house was dirty.

Yeah.

And so, and you're basically being held hostage too. You like, you have to pay because you want him out of your house. Yeah. I want the chimney sweep gone.

And so sad cuz I had an amazing chimney sweep earlier, years before. I couldn't find his number and he had drop clause and he had respect.

Yes.

And so, but I, I'll just say that night went to bed, literally permanent TMJ, like one night of clenching from the chimney sweep and that years later. So I should be going to court and the, and the tension on this jaw brought the face down. Okay. So the tension on this side. Yeah. So, so I'm losing work. Okay. Mm-hmm. From that. Yeah. So the chim— so one night, so that wasn't, that was an experience where I could have gone harder in the moment. I didn't cuz I I was just like kind of panicked and sad by what had happened.

Okay, but let's break down. You also didn't go harder in the moment because you've got somebody in your house.

Yeah, totally.

It's not a safe situation.

It's a man.

It's a man in your house for real. Yeah. And also—

That's when I wanted a husband. I

go, Eric!

You know, like that's when you, that's when you want that. Absolutely.

You wanna call for Eric. 'Cause Eric, Eric comes down from his study. Yeah. And he's like, hey man.

Yeah, no, exactly. And then I go, and I go, yeah. And I walk away. You walk away. They get to have it out.

And you can hear Eric yelling a little bit. Uh-huh. And you get like a little—

I go, Eric's getting a BJ tonight. Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah. Exactly. So that dynamic's fun.

And I get that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. So John Early, we spoke to him before this podcast because we always speak to somebody who knows our guests. And John gave us some amazing, um, questions for you.

Oh my God. Okay.

Okay. So here we go. John wants to know a couple things.

Okay.

Do you miss Paris?

Yes.

Okay. John wants to know, do you think you're funny? Yes. Okay. Um, John wants to know, how are the kids?

Amazing.

Congrats.

It's just, you know. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. They're at a, a really fun age.

Yeah. Cool. What age is that?

Just right around that area where you go, uh-huh, they're becoming— they're, they're them, but they're you. And it's— You— but you do know how old they are?

Yeah,

sure. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, good.

4-ish.

4-ish. Yeah. Um, John wants to know, so are you gay or what?

John will do that to me. It's so funny. Like, he'll text me out of nowhere and go, are you gay, bi? What is it? So funny. Or my favorite thing, like, I'll be doing a show and John will be like, just remember, he'll go, the show is broken because you are broken. It's really funny. To me,

the love language of comedy people is my favorite thing in the world.

He will leave a voicemail for me, and he'll be like, it's just so— like, yesterday, so embarrassed. She's promoting her special, and she's doing these press appearances, and it's just like, oh my God. Meanwhile, you know, HBO, they're not gonna release it. I've already been on the phone with them. They're holding it back. And there she is, trotting out in her little outfits. And I'll be like, oh my God, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, and hang up. Oh, it kills. Oh, he pretends that he's being polite. He pretends that he's calling someone else. Or he pretends to go over her head and he's accidentally leaving it on my machine.

Oh my God. It's really funny. That to me makes me feel so safe and loved.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really sweet.

And then shoes on or off?

Off.

Always?

In the home, off.

So when someone comes to your home, do you say, please take your shoes off?

So I have a small home, to quote the handyman who came to the house when I first moved in. And this is direct quote, never have I seen a house so small. And that was the exact delivery. That was the exact language used. I go, I mean, it's not that small. I mean, I don't have Eric. I don't have a rich husband to, you know, I go, I, I thought, yeah.

Yeah.

Um, and then I'll just say a couple days later he returned and he goes, do you have many more things to move into this very small home? And by the way, living room, there was no couch. There was nothing. I go, well, yeah, I have to bring in the furniture. And he go— and I go, but there's not that much. And he goes, that's good because it's so small. So because the house is small, I don't have a grand foyer. You know, there's no room for a shoe rack. So we kind of have like a horrifying pile, a little pile by the front door. So it depends. Depending on— I'll kind of be like, take them off. Yeah. If I just clean, you know.

Do you put on a house slipper?

Oh yeah. I have multiple house slippers.

This is what I— thank you. Another reason why I love you, Kate, is because I know you love things and you really And I would say that one of the things that's so amazing about you and Jacqueline on Pooch, which is an incredible podcast, and congrats on that, the success of that. Thank you. Because it's so funny and good. And you guys, for people that don't know, Pooch, like, deep dives into products in a way, much like how we're talking today, where Kate and Jacqueline Novak, a super talented writer, performer, they like talk about a red light mask and then somehow get to Dante's Inferno very fast.

It's very hard. high meets low. Yes. And it's very, you know, we started Poog in COVID.

Yes.

And really kind of started as a way— Poog, Goop backwards, get it? Okay. So, and kind of as like a wellness beauty podcast, but really also just a way that we could get free stuff, which has been incredible. And so we were like, people will send us these products and then, you

know. Yeah.

So, but, but, and also kind of this idea of like searching for the right product and that the, and there's this misconception that you want to find the right product. You actually don't. You want to engage in the, in the search forever. The search is Kind of, you know, the ego loves to search and never to find. And we'll just let that sit.

Yeah.

3, 2, 1. And so that constant manic belief that there is this product out there, this person out there, this thing out there, and then you're going to arrive and you're going to be whole and you're going to be healed, you're going to be beautiful. It's like, yeah, we on some level, we know that's not coming. But it's really fun to go and try the serum. I think it's doing something and to have fun. A new lipstick. And like, yes, there's pleasure in that.

Yes. And so on Pooj, you guys talk about things And I love listening to it because like you, I am in the pursuit for like the platonic best thing for the thing. Like as if my life is gonna get smaller and simpler if I just get the right thing. But I do wanna know what shoe you bought for your house shoe.

So this is kind of cheating because it is, it was a gift.

Okay.

But I'm gonna go with a classic Ugg. Sorry, Ugg. They, there's so many different kinds of slippers. And I actually, I paid out of pocket. I purchased the ultra mini boot that's like under the ankle almost.

Okay. Yes.

This kind of like—

Does it have a fur lining? Like, is it okay?

So by the way, even today, 140 degrees, getting into the boot first thing.

You are.

Well, what's—

how do you feel about air conditioning? Like, are you an AC person? Do you keep it cool?

Blast it down.

Me too.

Yeah. I mean, I really— last night I was because I sleep naked. Guys, this isn't about that. I'm here to talk about my work. But— and I want an Eight Sleep. And hi, I'm here on this pod— hey, Eight Sleep! Or is it— yeah, now's the time. Send them now. If that— if this doesn't get me an Eight Sleep, if this, this doesn't get me an Eight Sleep,

please get Kate an Eight Sleep. And so I'm gonna end our talk today.

No, no, no.

I know, I know. But you have a lot of incredible takes on things.

Oh.

So I want to get your thoughts on things. They don't have to be funny. They can be whatever they— you can be— it can be whatever you want. The moon.

Fake. Like, again?

Yeah, every night. Every night.

I just want to see something different from it.

Yeah. I mean, it does change every night. I mean, it gets—

But in the same way. Do you know what I mean? When people change in the same way, you go, now you're doing this thing, now you're doing that. thing. You're concealing this part. You're concealing that part.

Yeah.

Oh no, I'm right here in the open. No, you're not, because you're going to be gone tomorrow.

Psychics.

I believe there are gifted psychics. Like, I— people are tapped in.

Do you believe you have any psychic abilities?

Yeah.

Yeah, you do. For real?

Yes.

Have you ever predicted anything?

Yes.

What?

Can't get into it.

Okay.

No, I, I think we all, you know, psychically, we all, we all have ability.

I don't feel like I have psychic abilities. I

I can

read people and I can— I feel like I'm pretty good at noticing energies, but I don't feel like I have a psychic ability to figure that out. But

I've had some, some interesting instances. But again, I'm on my phone all day, so I'm blocking all of that out.

Yeah. Okay, go. Um, what about ghosts? Have you seen any ever? Yes. Yes.

So, so you've talked to ghosts? So people, you look at me, long hair, you You know, oh, who's this, you know, witchy psychic ghost people? I'm actually typically not, I don't, I don't like karaoke, for example. People think things about me, okay? So, and I was told not to talk about it 'cause then they take it as a way to kind of come in. But I swear to God, last couple years, I'm seeing ghosts.

You've been seeing some ghosts? You have to talk to my friend Rachel Dratch 'cause she does, she is really into woo-woo and she kind of collects woo-woo stories. I've had some, I've had some,

Like, um, I've always been scared of ghosts, and then the last couple years I've seen a few. And actually, some situations I would think would really scare me, no fear whatsoever, completely fine. I've had 2 upsetting experiences that really freaked me out.

Okay, that's not good.

So I kind of went to someone and went, let's close the door.

Mhm.

Um,

God, I wish I could see a ghost. I have not seen a ghost, and I, I just— they just do not fuck with me, ghosts. I—

You don't want it. I don't think— maybe I don't know. I don't know. So some, you know, some people I would like to come through and I'm interested in that. But, um,

maybe

not.

But okay,

once you've had a couple bad ones, you go,

yeah,

I'll just say I've got some special figurines on my nightstand lately.

Some crystals.

I was given some figurines.

Okay.

Because I go, I don't want to see that one anymore. Yeah.

And they were like, for $29.99, I can give you—

I know, truly, the amount of people, friends I've had that have been like, and she said that for $500 she could lift the curse. I'm like, oh no. I mean, people, they really—

Oh no. Because let's, let's lift the curse for free. How about we try that?

Yeah. All curses can and should be lifted for free.

Yeah. Like makeup and tampons. Yeah. Um, Los Angeles.

I'm from LA. I lived in New York for 10 years. I'm there all the time. But I think the, um, you know, people love to talk shit on LA and even this conver— you know, even this feels cliché when I'm, when I'm dropping into, right? Of kind of like people like to talk about, but I, I, um, I love Los Angeles. You know, she can be a cruel mistress, but to me it's, it's Hollywood. It's dreams. It's, it's, it's images. It's lizards. It's cactus. It's a, it's a palm tree half on fire. You know, it's, it's all of it. Yeah.

Yeah.

There's something brutally solitary about Los Angeles. I love New York so much. So many times I go back to New York and I'm like, I've ruined my life by not living here. I'd be a better artist. I'd be more connected to, to people, to strangers. Like, I, I, I really long for strangers and for those, like, interactions that really feeds me on a deep level. And I, I am sad that in LA it's harder to get those interactions. Um, but I think, uh, I don't know, LA is, is— it is, it isn't— it's strange.

Yes.

And it can make you feel— I remember after living in New York, coming back to LA and being like, well, I've never felt uglier, more exposed, more alone, driving in the car, looking in the mirror. Like, yeah, like you're alien. You're like, who is that?

It's so bright.

It's so bright. There's nowhere to hide, and yet it only hides you. I don't know, but—

You love it.

You love her. Come on, seeing those hills speckled with homes lit up at night, drive down Hollywood Boulevard, it's a man with a machete outside the Man's Chinese, and

you go, I'm home.

We're dreaming. Yeah, we create the dreams, Amy. This town creates the fantasies that drive us crazy.

And what's, um, and what's making you laugh? My last question to you. Like, like, what do you do to laugh? And you can't say your friends.

Just go watch people fall down at the supermarket. Um, um, what makes me laugh is non-performers performing. Like, I've been to a couple weddings, a couple, like, those kinds of environments where someone who's not a performer performer is giving a speech. Yes, that is exquisite.

And let's talk through that because I know what you mean. And I bet you're the same, like, as women, like our mirror neurons. We, we don't want anyone to be humiliated.

No, of course,

of course not.

And it's sweet. You see people are scary up there. I'm a performer. I'm scared up there.

Yes. But when it's like a little bit awkward but fun, but what do you— what, what makes you laugh? Like, what, what do What's your, your like perfect version of that?

I think what's so fascinating about wedding speeches is there's like this template and people are like, like, this is something I've talked about with John. So classically, the bridesmaid speech, you're the bride, right? You're this, you're funny, you're smart, you're kind. It's listing things. And in the vows too, it's usually you're kind, you're kind, you're kind, and you're kind. Whether we're bumming a hat or having a hat, you always having a hat. It's like so shocking. It's like this rehearsed, and there's a beauty in that. Like this is the structure we can all fall into collapse into this familiar language and everyone knows exactly what's gonna happen. And, but, but it's like, that's funny. Yes. Like that, that, that's, that's really, and again, the listing traits.

Yes.

It's always listing traits. I know.

It's so funny.

You're goofy, you're smart, you're kind, and you're generous. Listing traits. We have to go beyond the list.

Yes. But breaking out of that is hard.

But I understand too. I'm saying that I'm not admonishing the list. No.

You're right that you could hear that language. You could hear that rhythm. A

hint, a hint, a hint, and a hint. It's like, it's really there. Yeah.

Yeah. I totally— I love a wedding.

Love!

If it's a bad wedding, I'm like, ugh, I love it.

Oh, my God.

Like, you know, if everyone— if there's, like, a clumsy speech, or people are stressed, or the wrong person cries, or the ex is there, and it's awkward, I'm like, oh, my God, what theater. And if it's beautiful and full of love, I'm like, amazing. I love that too. I love a wedding.

And I, and I just, I love parties so much and I'm very like planner. Like if I didn't, if I didn't do what I do, I think I'd be like

party planner.

I've never, I've never, yeah, maybe.

Wait, tell me.

Professor slash party planner. Yeah.

Okay. But what parties make me a little stressed. They're very unstructured.

No, tell it what's on. I, I go, okay. Oh my God. The apps, like bring out the apps now. You know? Yeah. I, I was actually at a wedding recently. Nice one. At broken glass bleeding in my mouth. Ran to the bathroom. There's blood. I spit out in the ceviche. There's glass. So I go back, I go, I go in. I don't tell anyone. I'm not gonna ruin this wedding. Of course. I go into the kitchen through the doors, into the metal doors. I go, guys, the ceviche trays, you gotta pull 'em. You gotta pull 'em. There's glass. You know? And I quietly, oh, quietly.

You wanna put out those fires.

And I'll micromanage. Like, I definitely have like, can have a white-knuckle Like, I love to have a dinner party or something.

Yeah.

And I love to spend the days awake, you know, the nights before. It's not as simple. It's not— the effortless host is a lie. I think it's real. Some people actually can do that. But like, I'm like shaking.

Yeah.

But there's things you can't control. You can control the party, but guess what? Overcontrolled party? Hell. Hell for everyone.

Hell.

So that's the thing. You have to create the structure, but you have to let it dissolve.

Yeah. Yes. You might burn, like something's gonna burn. The, like, someone's gonna get into a fight, like wine will be spilled, a chimney sweep may show up.

Yeah, he might.

Yeah, he might.

He might give you TMJ, but you keep going.

And that is something— the second thing we want you to take away from other than having sex with your sibling.

Yeah, don't do that. Guys, don't do it. Don't do it. Capeland, I love you. Wait, I love you so much. You are a hero to me. I have no trouble saying that to you. And also truly going through a really hard time recently. What did I pop on? Wet Hot.

Mm.

They came together double feature. 'Cause I'm like, I need something funny.

Yes.

I'm thinking, okay, funny movie. What's a funny movie? Oh, that's funny. Nothing's coming up. And then I go, we're going, we're going back to Wet Hot. Wet Hot lives in my DNA. That is— I mean,

you must have been a teen when it came out, right?

Yeah. I don't remember when I first saw it. Yeah. I saw it later.

Yeah.

But, um, yeah, it is the most beautiful and just, yeah.

Thank you, Kate. I love, I love seeing you.

And that's just the tip. I'm, I'm not gonna do your CV. We all know. But I love you.

Thank you, Kate.

I love you.

Thank you. Thank you so much, Kate Berlant. That was so fun. I love talking to you and you're so funny and Um, it's just a joy to be around you. So, uh, Kate and I talked about a lot of things. One of the things we talked about is how fun it is to watch an awkward wedding speech. But I just want to say, for people that are right now getting ready to give a speech, a wedding speech, just a few tips. Here are my unsolicited tips, which start with a joke, end sincerely. Don't do it the other way around. Don't start sincere and then think that this hilarious joke is gonna kill. Start with a really nice, easy joke up front, maybe something about how you're nervous, something self-effacing, and then just get 'em at the end by being very, very sincere. You can never go wrong if you're sincere. You can go horribly wrong if you say the wrong joke. So that would be my unsolicited advice, but congratulations. Thank you. Congratulations on your wedding and congratulations on being the bridesmaid. And remember, take your speech and cut it in half because it's gonna go longer than you think.

Thank you so much for listening to Good Hang. Thanks for checking in with us and have a good one. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paperkite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya McMullen, Aleah Zaneras, Bridget Gearlings, Paige Garbarini, Bel Roman, and Drew Van Steenburgen. For Paperkite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Original music by Amy Miles.

I lie on the one who was a really good hate.