Transcript of Jonathan Groff

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Now, try it. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. We are so excited to talk to Jonathan Groff, huge fan. And what a delight. What a just so talented and funny and so fun to talk to. We're going to talk about a lot of things today. We're going to talk about horses. We're going to talk about Broadway. We're going to talk about making lasting friendships at work. We're going to talk about us both playing Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz and the different things we brought to it. We're going to talk about his Broadway smash hit, Just in Time, which is open for a few more weeks on Broadway. He plays Bobby Daren. It's amazing. You have to see it. But before we do, we're going to check in with someone who knows our guest, who's worked with our guest, who loves our guest, and that person is Grace Grace Lawrence. Grace is an incredible singer from the band Lawrence. She was Connie Francis in Just in Time, and we are going to speak to her while she is in rehearsal for another Broadway show All Out. Grace, do you have a question for our darling Jonathan?

Hi.

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What do you say? All I ever wanted was a really good day.

Hello? Gracie? Okay, wait. Sorry. There's some people in my dressing room that are- You really mean. Sorry. You have to go. I told them that I was in the middle of something, but it's like... It was in there.

Oh, my God. Listeners, Jon Stewart and Abby Jacobson are flanking Gracie Lawrence right now. We got a threefer.

A threefer. A sentence I've dreamed of.

A three-four with Amy Poehler. Oh, my God. Hi, friends.

Hello, friends.

What a good surprise. No, they live in my dressing room. We share a dressing.

This one, Amy, top, top, notch. Yeah. So naturally talented. The only downside, honestly, Amy, is the drinking. That's the part that's the only thing that's holding her back. Yeah.

We don't have to talk about it.

Yeah, there's actually not a podcast today. Gracy, we're all here because we love you and we want to...

You know what? I thought this seemed strange. I was like, Why are they in my dressing room? Why am I getting a call from Amy Poehler?

I'm like, Look at you guys.

Broadway. It's just rehearsal. Broadway babies. Guys, let's do our thing. Me, me, me, me, me, We're talking about and to Jonathan Groff today, who I know you love. I love Jonathan Groff in such an intense way. Wait, I need to say something to you first. Okay, wait. Everyone, stop. First of all, I would watch this podcast in my dressing room at Just In Time before the show because it was a calming, warm hug. I would watch it with my dressing room roommate, Erica Henningsen.

Erica. You were like, the best.

We'd be panicking before we went on stage, and we would watch this podcast, and a calm would come over us.

So, Gracy, you are rehearsing right now for your new Broadway show. Yes. Do you want to tell people what that is?

Yes. It's a show called All Out with our mutual friends Abby Jacobson and Jon Stewart and Eric Andre and Ike Barinholtz.

Fyi, I'm coming to see it tonight.

I heard that nasty little rumor. Are you really? Oh, my God.

I'm going to be so- I like to wear a very loud sweater so people can see me. I like to make a lot of noise. I'll find you. I like to give thumbs up or thumbs down as the show goes on.

That's totally fine with me. I like to make a lot of uncomfortable eye contact with one audience member, and I think it's going to be you tonight. Yeah. And then I'm in the show with my band Lawrence, which is my brother and I and six of our closest friends, and we're playing our original music in this show.

It's super cool. And, Gracey, you are... You straddle this amazing world. And one of the things I want to talk to Jonathan- We straddle? Well, we straddle an amazing world. Don't get dirty, little minks. You'll watch it. Someone's listening to this before they go on and they want peaceful.

They want peaceful.

No, totally. Okay. You're a singer and you are on stage and you record and you act. And it's really interesting because I think Jonathan, very similarly, when I look at his career, he has done so many things. Both of you are examples of there's no categorizing artists anymore. There used to be this feeling that you could only be this performer or actor. Totally. Jonathan Jonathan is a perfect example of that. Can you tell me the first time you met him and what your first impression of him was?

I met Jonathan on the first day of rehearsal of the workshop of Just in Time.

For people who don't know, can you just tell us what that show is?

Justin Time is a Broadway show. It is directed by Alex Timbers, and it is about the life of Bobby Daron. I play Connie Francis, and Jonathan played Jonathan currently plays Bobby Daron. I played Connie Francis. And, yeah, we met on the first day of the workshop, and I was really nervous, which is a theme of my life. And Jonathan walked in, and the first thing I did in the day was sing with him. That was my first entrance to this show. He walked in like star of the show. He was just such a star from the he walked in. It was like, I got the right entrance from him. I was watching him walk, and he put his binder down, and then he sat down next to me. He was like... And then he just did the Jonathan Groff thing of making really intense, beautiful eye contact with you.

Perfect.

Which you'll experience in the film. Can't wait.

He's so charming. As far as his actual big width and breadth of talent, what do you think makes him such a special performer?

I do think he's one of the It's one of the greatest performers of all time. He reminds me of the performer that is of a different era. He reminds me of Bobby Darren. He is this performer that can do it all and is so magnetic and so charming. His magic trick as a performer is making people feel so at ease and so comfortable, and they know him immediately. And even when he's playing Bizarre Weirdos, it's you still feel really comfortable around him, and you want to... He's the most watchable person I've ever met ever on stage.

Yes.

And the eye contact thing, because I will tend to be like, If someone's looking at me too long, I'm like, What? He will lock the fuck in. He's going to do that. Okay. He's also a lover of shenaniganry and bullshit on stage. I don't know how he knows the right moment to do the things, but somehow he will violently tickle me on stage, consensually. I'll have friends at the show and I'll be like, Did you guys notice when Jonathan just fully in the middle of the scene was like, and they'll be like, No, I didn't catch that. I'm like, How does he know? He just really knows.

He has a playful energy that's a tiny I mean, I imagine when you just do show after show after show, you got to keep it fresh. Yeah. Okay, so I asked my Zoom guests to give me a question for my guests.

I thought of a million questions because he is in some ways so anomalous. But given that I'm technically a new friend of his, even though I feel I know him very well, I've noticed in this year that I've never I've never seen him frazzled, or anxious, or nervous. And he's had so many occasions where he objectively should be, leading a show, doing huge interviews, going to the Tonys, performing three times at the Tonys. He is like, Yoda-like. He is so calm. And when I'm nervous, He always turns to me after I say, I'm feeling nervous. He was like, Really? He doesn't understand that. And I'm wondering, why isn't he more scared of things? When did he... Has he always been this way? Did I meet him in a time in his life where he just really has his shit together? Or has he always been extremely calm? When he was auditioning things back in the day, was he going in the room shaky or was he so calm? And what, if anything, scares him now, little bitch? I'm annoyed. It's crazy.

Yeah, that's a great question because you're absolutely right. You never catch him working too hard, but he's the hardest worker. And he makes things I mean, that's to your point about we feel like we know him. He also makes things feel accessible to us. I think great artists do. They don't overcomplicate things.

No, he's not tortured.

No, he's not. That's why I love him because he's such a good example, in my opinion, of the more talented you are, the easier you are to work with, period, the end. Again, there are the few eccentric geniuses, but for the most part, if you're not coming from a fear-based place, it's such a pleasure to work together with someone who's so talented. Well, Gracey, that's a really good question. I think he's really good, really great. I cannot thank you enough for taking what I'm sure is your... This is probably your downtime, your eating time, your looking at your phone time before you have to go back out there.

I'm sure they're just... I'm supposed to be rehearsing something, but who cares? I'm here.

Thank you so much. Such a pleasure to meet you. Take care. Bye.

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Jonathan, I'm very, very excited that you're here.

I'm very excited to be here.

Thank you for doing this. When we started this show, we were like, who? We just thought about people that we wanted to talk to that would be good hangs, and you were definitely someone that we really wanted wanted to talk to.

I am so honored. I'm so honored.

Thank you. Have we ever met?

No, this is our first time.

This is our first time meeting. I mean, I'm sure you get this lot, but I do feel like I've met you. Same.

I know I lifted you up.

It's like- It was off camera, but when you came in, we hugged and you lifted me up, which I really enjoyed. I mean, I don't always love being lifted up, but I really liked when you did it. Also, people should know you're very jacked.

Oh, my God. Thank you. I'll take it.

Your arms were really strong.

I'll take it. My friend Susie, every time I would see her, I would lift her up, and then she was like, Jonathan, please stop lifting me. I don't like to be lifted. That's a good friend. Yeah.

Well, when you're a short person, sometimes- Yes, this was her point. In improv, you got lifted up, which, by the way, I'm sure there's many women out there that are like, Oh, you got lifted up a lot. Good thing to complain about.

But I get it, though. There's assumptions made. I lifted you. No, it was nice. Then I felt like, Oh, no, did I just assume?

No, everything. I loved everything about it. Okay. I loved everything about it.

Thank God. It was exciting. That was our first meeting.

I know. I'm talking to you today. You I'm talking to you today because you have your show tonight. Yes. It's literally you're going to be on stage in a few hours. Yeah. I have so much I want to talk to you about today. But one thing I realized is that you've done so many things so well. It's going to be hard to talk about all of them. But most of your life, your job, the hardest part of your day is at the end of your day. What is it like to have a full day waiting for your hardest part of the day to start?

That is such a great question, Amy. Thank you. I've never thought about it like that before.

I used to have a version of that with SNL, but that was once a week was the actual performance. The The rest of the time was a split, midday to night.

It may be the most challenging part of my day, but it's also the most joyful part of my day. That getting out there and getting to do it, I'm like a kid with the high school play. That's awesome. Yeah, I get amped, and then I sleep very hard at night. I think maybe I'm naturally a night person.

Before we get into your life, I need to get into sleep because it's my favorite thing to talk about. What time do you go to bed?

Okay, so usually the show- I'm not going to like this.

I'm already worried, but the show is over at what? 10?

If you're lucky. Yeah, the show is over at 10: 30. Oh, God. Then oftentimes, Part of the fun is having people backstage.

Nightmare. True nightmare.

Then I'll talk to people and hang for a bit in the dressing room. I'll get on my bicycle.

You bike home? Yeah. Should people know that? We could cut that.

Don't follow him. Suddenly, I'm being followed by people on bikes. Don't follow him. That's incredible. Yeah, I bike. I bike to and from the theater. I arrive on a bike, usually. That's great. Then I'm in bed probably by 12: 30, 12: 30 or 1: 00. Okay, I like that. Yeah, I'll go home, I'll eat something, I'll watch some YouTubers. Then I do feel when I walk in my apartment, I start to go like...

Like night night.

I'm powering down. I'm dying. Then I fall asleep and I... I'm a very hard sleeper.

I used to be a really hard sleeper. I'm getting a little lighter as I get older. But yeah, I'm with you. I don't get up in the middle of... I can go down. I can go down.

I go down.

You go down. Then what time is morning time? Is it 10: 00 AM or is it 9 AM?

It's 10 AM.

How did you know it was 10 AM? Well, because the 1 AM bedtime is usually a 10 AM wake up.

Yeah, that's the natural wake up. 10 AM? Yeah.

We're talking to you right now at basically your lunchtime.

That's exactly right. I'm having this coffee.

Black coffee for lunch. I'm having black coffee for lunch.

What is this? What time are you going to go to bed tonight? We're going to finish this.

I actually am already stressed about the fact I have to go... Have to. I have the lucky of going to a show tonight. I'm going to a show and I'm already stressed about the fact that I am not going to be... In bed. In bed. I love bed time. Ideally for me...

You couldn't go to a matinée?

I know. I blew it. I love a matinée.

Yeah, right. Because then you can go straight to bed.

When I'm there, I'm so happy, but I'm literally counting the minutes till I can go to sleep. Okay, but what I wanted to say, Jonathan, now I'm starting. Okay, okay.

You got the glasses on.

Well, because we wrote it down because you are such a nice boy. You're a good, nice boy. You, to me, are the embodiment of someone who is deeply, deeply open and a good, caring, nice person, and also crushing it and ambitious and like, ambition with a side of compassion, basically. You don't have to be a jerk.

I love that you're saying that, too. Yeah, because oftentimes, ambition is seen as a negative thing or a cutthroat thing that you have to push people aside in order to do your thing. But we're all just on our own little track and field lane.

Yes, that's right. You're only competing with yourself.

Exactly.

The idea that if... What is it? A rising boat?

All Boats Rise.

Yeah. It's not that.

All Boats Rise.

But isn't it a rising tide? A rising tide rises all the boats.

Really?

A rising tide lifts all boats.

A rising tide.

That's your warm up for tonight. A rising tide lifts all boats.

A rising tide lifts all boats. It does.

A rising tide lifts all boats. That was good.

You matched my... That was perfect. Thank you.

But it's true. It's true that you can decide. I feel like not knowing you, but knowing so many people who love and love working with you. I feel like that is you. And so congratulations on that. I have no question. I just wanted to say that about you. Oh my God. Well, right back at you. You have done so much. You've done musicals, you've done television, you've done film. You're on Broadway right now. You You were in Spring Awakening. Of course, you were in Hamilton. You were in Glee. You were in Mindhunter. You're Christoff and frozen. You do so many things so well. But through it all, through it all, I feel the sense from you of exactly what we started this conversation with, which is there's still just a lot of joy in getting to do what you get to do. Yeah. You hold on to that. You're grateful for it in a moment.

Yes. You work for it and you find those people. I mean, you're the queen of this, of finding those people that you love and love to make things with. I feel like as time goes by, I just turned 40 last year, I can feel myself getting magnetized to those people later in life. Working with Dan Radcliffe on Marily. I think the first time I was like, Oh, I've really met my match here because this guy loves to do this so profoundly. We formed a lifelong friendship with our friend Lindsay, really everyone in that company. But Dan was sick and gripping me. He had to be out. There was a need in him that that I really related to. I'm finding as time goes by and you get older, there's such a joy in the people that we started out with, the ones that really want to be here are still here. Yes. It's such a cool thing.

Dan Radcliffe is an example of this, and you are, which is also you want longevity in the business. You want to work a long time. It's the long game. It's the long game. Playing the long game. I can't wait to talk to you about Marely. It's such an incredible piece of art. It's so deep. I can only imagine what it must have been like to be approaching 40 and winning a Tony for a piece that is all about the circular feeling of life and having it in real time. Before we get there, we're going to get there. But I am so enamored and moved You were moved by your... By little Jonathan on the horse farm. You grew up in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Yes. Yeah. Your dad was a horse trainer?

Yeah, still is. Is. Yeah.

Do you ride horses and do you like horses? Oh, is this controversial?

It's not controversial. He does harness racing. It's like the cart behind the horse. You're sitting in the cart with the whip. Oh, yeah.

Is that Are you in a large... Was that like a Mennonite?

Yeah, my dad is... His whole family is Mennonite. Wow. My grandfather was a Mennonite preacher, and he was expected to take over the dairy farm because he was the oldest son, but wasn't into cows, and so pivoted to horses and got really into horse racing. Then my mom was raised Methodist, and so started going to the Methodist Church because the Mennonites were not super into the gambling aspect of his career. Interesting. He wasn't shunned or anything, but just, yeah. Growing up, I would pretend on the horse farm with my brother. But my brother David and I We're both petrified of the horses because they're so scary.

I'm afraid of horses. They scare me. I respect them. They're beautiful. But I don't mess around with horses.

Yeah, and that's really wise. I feel like when you know that, you're really tapping into the empathy of the horse because they feel- Yes.

I don't want to startle them. I'm a little nervous. I don't want to make them nervous. There are some people that are just so good with them. I feel like I feel to horses like people who don't want to have children feel towards children. To get yet. Yeah, which is like, I think that's great for you. Yes, not my journey. I want people who want to ride horses to ride horses. Not my journey. Exactly. They're so tall. Their eyes are so far from me.

Their mouths are enormous. Enormous and they're like, Yeah, they're like, Yeah, yes.

They don't make that sound.

I was nervous. I was shoveling the shit in the stalls with the horses also so you could imagine not loving the... The sound. Moving around the horse to shovel its shit into the thing, I was like, it was not...

That's funny. That's not going into the family business. It's not like the horses.

Yes. I was blasting Brittany Spears and Stephen Sondheim on the tape player in the barn, shoveling the horse shit, being like, I don't fit here.

I loved your Tony speech when you thanked your family and your brother, your parents, for letting you just be you. They really did that, right? You were exactly that, singing and dressing up and getting to do stuff. Everybody was like, That's our Jonathan.

We have this VHS of me dressed as Mary Poppins. I was three, and my mom and my dad, I had lipstick and a carpet bag and a hat and a dress. We're on my grandfather's Mennonite farm, Wade. I'm with the carpet bag. In the background, you can hear him going, Mary, oh, Mary. Not even really clocking the gay joke that he's making by calling me Mary.

Which then became a very successful Broadway show. Exactly. That's where Cole got the idea.

That's where Cole got the idea. Oh, my God. Totally. Yeah.

Who was saying that? Was your dad saying that?

My Mennonite grandfather, preacher, Wade.

Oh, Wade.

So incredible. So sweet. I think if they had equated putting this young boy in a gown may open up a homosexuality in him. It's like an on-ramp to gayness. They may not have done it, but this was before the internet. They just beautifully allowed me to... Great. Fly my freak flag.

Yes. I heard, did you play Dorothy and the Wizard of Us? Yeah. I did as well. What age did you play Dorothy?

At four.

What did you bring to the role? How did you see her? At four.

I brought a lot. There's also a video of that. What did you bring? I brought a lot I brought a real... I was screaming a lot. A lot of me going like, Oh.

Because of a tornado. Yeah. You were playing the tornado.

Yeah. I was very tornado-forward in my interpretation.

Yeah, interesting. You were interested in the trauma before the yellow brick was.

Yes, I held that. That I carried through. What was your on-ramp?

Thank you for asking. I was in fourth grade, and I was really into it. You were in fourth grade, so you were a little older. I was in fourth grade, a little older, a little wiser. I knew we were going to be okay, I think. But I was really interested in the follow me aspect. I was very much like, Come on over here. Come on. I was very into... Leading lady. Follow the yellow brick road. Let's go. The let's go of Dorothy. I love the skipping and the running around and just the journey part. I was really into that part. The tornado, I just... I just went internal. I just went really small.

You were more like the Phoenix rising from the ashes. You were leading everyone somewhere.

It was just in my eyes.

The tornado was in my eyes. It was like a quick look. Blinking, you miss it.

What was that?

Wait, is she okay? But then immediately you were leading us. Yeah. Oh, it's so much smarter. Fuck.

Lions and tigers and bears. Oh, my. Okay, so then you're on the farm, you're scared of horses, you're singing. What makes you... You're going to go to college, and then you get a It's hard.

It really is as you describe. You're on the farm, you're with the horses, you're singing. What is going to happen? When I listen to the original cast recording of Company, I still smell horse. I still have this sense memory of smelling horse.

Because you're really listening to it in the bar.

Yeah, because it smells like the pile of manure that we would make from the stall.

How did you get those records? How did you find out about... What was the musical that made you fall in love? Was it The Horses?

Do you see it funny or not? I can't believe it. I haven't thought about this, Amy, in so long. When you say record, I went to the Lancaster Public Library and got the record LP. I mean, it's not like this was the '60s. This was like 1992. But I got the LP record of Ethel Mermon singing, Annie, Get Your Gun. I would play the record of Annie, Get Your Gun over and over again. We had a record player in my house growing up and a giant computer. You remember the early computers and a hand thing that was doing the video games? I would be playing a very basic video game and blasting Ethelmerman singing.

Do you remember what How a young boy discovered Ethelmerman? It's amazing. How did you find out about her?

They took us to see the high school play. There you go. Of Annie, Get Your Gun. There you go. I was like, when it got to intermission and they were like, Okay, now we're going to go to the bathroom and then we're going to come back. I was like, There's more? After that? We're going to come back and it's going to happen again? There's going to be more story? I was so excited.

Did you ever go into New York when you were a kid and see a show?

Yeah, I went. The any get your gun moment happened when I was in fourth grade, and that's when I went to the library then and got the record and was obsessed. Then my mom started taking me on bus trips to see Broadway shows, and that was like fifth grade, sixth grade, middle school.

Then I started going to- What did you see back then?

I saw Beauty and the Beast. I saw Grease. I saw Annie, Get Your Gun with Bernadette Peters, which I was losing my mind for. In high school, I saw Thurly Modern Millie six times.

You were obsessed with Sutton Foster.

Yeah, obsessed. Obsessed with her.

What was it about her that you loved?

That spoke to you. She, on stage... Well, on stage is a couple of things. She would be right here. There was a level of presence about her that was so magnetic, and I couldn't stop looking at her. When she wasn't speaking in scenes, I would be staring at Sutton because she felt so alive. Then she had been the understudy in that show, out of town and replaced and was pushed out into the front to take on that role, which was 28 years old. When it's really hot and you're driving and you see those waves of heat coming off the road. You know that? When you're in the car and you're like, whoa, it's so hot that you can see the air is like... That was what was coming off of her body in my experience and my memory of watching her. It was like heat was coming off of her.

You were still in high school. Did you know you were going to be an actor? Did you have a sense that you were going to move to New York and be an actor at that point?

Yeah. Once I was in high school, there was two community theaters in my hometown, the Fulton Theater and the Everton Performing Arts Center. They're both still there. At the Fulton Theater, I was meeting actors that they hired from New York to play the leads. Oh, wow. I was obsessed with all of them. One of them is in Just in Time. A woman named Terry Kelly, who was the lead of the show in 2001 at the Fulton, is now one of our amazing swings in Just in Time. We have a full circle moment there. But yeah, I started to dream about moving to New York. That's when I learned that you could go to open calls, and I did that my senior year of high school. I went to an open call for the Sound of Music tour and got it and went on the road and then moved to New York.

You basically told your parents, I'm not going to college.

They really They said, If you want to go to college, we will find a way to pay for this for you. But it's so expensive. Are you sure you want to major in theater? Because what's that going to get you at the end of four years, all this money? I was like, It's my passion. It's what I want to do. I remember a late night with my dad sitting in his chair and he was like, If this is really what you want to do, we'll figure it out. I was like, Okay, thanks, But then I went to New York and auditioned for this tour and got it. I went on the road and I deferred my admission from college. I made $10,000 in the year of working on this non-union tour. Carnegie Mellon at that time was $40,000 a year. That's where I deferred my admission. I was like, I'll never be able to pay this off. My parents were like, Right. Take your money, go to New York, see if it works out. If it doesn't work out, come back and go to college for something else. That was the plan.

Then 21 years old, you get nominated for a Tony. 21. I mean, spring awakening. I feel like Dorothy. I'm feeling Dorothy. I mean, that musical, I saw you in that musical. I saw the Ridge.

Oh, my God.

Come on. So amazing. Oh, my God. I mean, an original musical that's so successful at that age. I guess my question to you is, now you've got some time, right? Now, and you did the documentary, you produced the documentary.

Wow, you really know your stuff, Amy. I try my best. You're such a hard worker.

But I mean, you're looping back around it now. Now you've been able to look back. Looking back now at that boy. What do you take away from that moment now, with distance and time, what are you so grateful for about that moment?

Oh, my God. It was like getting picked up and put somewhere else. It was like the claw coming and just like...

That's a good way to think about it.

The fate of it was like, Thorly Modern Millie, which I had seen six times, the director of Spring Awakening is Michael Meyer, the director of Thorly Modern Millie. It was a combination of feeling like I got picked up and put somewhere, and I remember auditioning for it. I remember calling my dad on the phone the night before the callback and saying, I can't do this right now, but I know that I could do it if they gave me the chance.

Why were you thinking you couldn't do it?

Because I knew my talent was not... I didn't really have the proper gifts. My singing, I didn't have my singing together, but I had this primal thing down in my I got that was like, I have to play this role, and they let me do it. Then this thing in me got to... It's like those opportunities. You get that opportunity, and Especially with theater because it's almost religious because you're repeating. When you repeat things over and over again, it can change you from the inside out. It taught me how to act and taught me how to sing. I was in the closet during that whole show, and I had my roommate, Cody, that was my boyfriend. When I left that show, I came out of the closet a month later because this rebel that was this character, this person that didn't care, didn't let the world define him. This was what I was playing. Like you said, I'm a people pleaser. I'm prioritizing niceness, prioritizing making sure everybody feels good. Coming out felt like that would create a dissonance It was really hard for me to do that. Playing the role in that show allowed me to grow the muscle to be able to do that.

So cool. So cool. You put that in such a beautiful way. I think people often underestimate that sometimes the struggle to live authentically doesn't have as much to do with how you feel about yourself as it does in the worry of how it will change the temperature in the room, how it will change the dynamic in the family, how it will make other people feel. It's often told through an inner struggle when sometimes the struggle is really about how will other people change? How will they feel. How did your family How did they feel? Were they surprised?

Cut, too. Me screaming as Dorothy.

And Wade was like, Well.

Five minutes, grandma was like, Who's that little girl in the Wizard of Oz? They were like, That was Jonathan. Were they surprised? My dad was surprised. My brother was surprised. I told my brother first. That's nice. He was like, He was like, What? He was surprised. Which, yeah, my mom said that she knew. It was complicated and cut to, whatever, two or three Christmases later, and they're handing presents to my boyfriend that's home for the holidays. So it very quickly, it took a minute for them to digest it all. Sure. And then ultimately, it's been great.

Yeah. Amazing. So so much happening in your 20s. So much. And then you go on Glee, which is this insanely popular show with your buddy Leah. Everything is happening really fast. It It feels like that when I look at your stuff, that your 20s is just like, things are really moving and chugging along and you're just working like crazy and being like a New York kid.

Yeah.

Yeah. Because you have a quality about you that's very young. You've been told that, I'm sure.

I feel it. Yeah. Yeah, I feel eternally young in a certain way. I'm very excitable.

Do you have an age you feel like you are? Do you know what I mean? That you relate to?

Right now, I feel about 15. Yeah, I feel…

You're just picking people up left and right.

I'm picking you up.

Drinking black coffee.

I feel like we're on the high school news. We're on the high school news. I did the high school news. I remember I'm like, Oh my God. You'd be like, Good morning, everyone. Now that you say it's the set up of this is very high school news.

I'm having a hot flush right now.

Yeah, it's giving high school news station. It is very high school. Yeah, we're on the morning announcement.

Both of us would have definitely done morning announcement. For? My dream. Sure. My dream. I would have had a big crush on you and people would have been like... Oh, my God.

I would have been just following your Dorothy lead.

People would have been like, Jonathan does not have a crush on you. Okay? You're not his type. I'll be like, I don't know. I think I can get him. I think I can win him over.

Oh, yeah. It would have been totally us on the news.

Then you're on Looking, which is this first show on HBO to feature a gay man as the lead? Yeah. Is that real?

Is that real? Is that right?

I don't know. I saw it on the internet, but who knows? We don't have time to figure that. But incredible. But that's a big jump to be coming out in a few years later playing a really fully realized, sophisticated single man looking for love. That's a big jump.

Yeah. It was like, I'm really riding the wave here of of progress. When they initially sent me that audition, I said no. I felt scared to be gay on a TV show, wanting to be out publicly, and another thing to be eating ass on TV.

Only in film.

It's like, I'm gay. Then it's like, Okay, Groff, we get it. They see me in different positions.

I mean, you actually bring up a really good point. You bring up a good point, which is it's very hard to do intimate scenes no matter what to be...

But it's funny because You didn't care.

No.

In Spring Awakening, I was like, Let's go.

That's true. You already did that. You already ate ass in Spring Awakening. In a different way.

In a different way. I felt a safety with women because they didn't feel like there was as much at stake and we could really go for it. In some ways, it felt like back then, what I wished I was, wishing I wasn't gay, wishing I was straight. It was like, this is who I wish I could be. It felt like dreaming, changing who I was, like a fantasy of what I wished I could be. But then when they send me these scripts and it's I am, it then does become a little bit scary. But I'd seen Andrew Hague, when he became attached as the director, I'd seen his film Weekend at the IFC on sixth Avenue, and I was a wreck crying in that movie theater because I'd never seen something that felt so real. When he became attached as the director, then I was like, no brainer. Yes, I want to do this. I want to work with this man. The way that he tells those stories meant so much to me. Me in that movie, and I want to do this with him. But at the audition, I was shaking, and I felt like Sutton when I'm talking about the heat coming off of the body.

My whole body went hot, and I I blush. I was blushing. It was like Spring Awakening, another role that I was almost like a ring of fire birth into a new version of self, like therapy.

Like a somatic? Yes. Another You had an exorcism, and you knew it was right because you were feeling it so big as well.

Yes. Wow. That's cool. They asked me to be the grand marshal of the Gay Pride Parade. I told my parents when I came out five years before, I was like, Hi, so Cody is not my roommate. Cody is my boyfriend, and I'm gay, but I'm not going to be in a parade. That's what I said when I came out. I was so still full of shame. I was like, I'm not. But listen, I'm not holding the flag. I'm not like the cuts me then eating ass on television. Then ultimately, on Grand Marshaling, the New York in the Prime Parade, with a sash, a rainbow sash, literally like elbow, elbow, wrist, wrist. I felt scared. I still felt scared back then. I was like, this feels like right. It feels like the right thing to do.

But I'm like,. You were like, Dorothy.

Screaming as I'm What has been pushed, what has been pushed off a cliff?

This is an amazing theme I'm realizing about you, which is really amazing is that you... I think it may also just come from familial unconditional love, which I'm learning more and more. When artists have it, they can take big chances. Because you take a lot of chances when they're like, holy shit. You do. You do it, though. You do it.

I think I'm a little drawn to it. I must be, like magnetized to it. Like you said, unconditional love. I think you're right.

There's It's a little bit of a thing where you... I'll speak for myself, too, coming from that background where I don't want to bypass the fact that there's a safety element that I had in my youth that allows me to do that now.

Talk about it, Amy.

Because I think that you cannot discount that feeling that if you had a safe home in your professional life or your creative life, you just feel sometimes like emboldened to take these chances when they're given to you. That's definitely what you did because it is like your career is just like, Yeah, let's try this. Let's do this. Then looking happens, and then it gets canceled. Bummer, but not really a bummer. Because All of a sudden. Guess who's available for Hamilton? Guess who's tech available for Hamilton? Jonathan Groff.

Another fear factor thing, though, of like, Brian Darcy James originated that role off Broadway. Of course, Brian Then his show, Something Rotten, got fast-tracked to Broadway, unexpected, while they were in rehearsal for the public theater. I get a text from Lynn, who I had become friends with through the years, being like, Hey, Brian has to bail right after opening. Will you come in off Broadway and do this for two months for the last two months of the off-Broadway run? He was like, It's basically just one song and it's not a lot of moves, and you'll be great. I was like, Okay. I I said yes without hearing it, knowing anything about it. They sent me the song. I learned the song from a piano thing. Then I saw it and went in two days later. I was in LA at the time. I didn't know I had to have a British accent.

Did you ever...

No, I'm just kidding. Exactly.

I mean, your accent is perfect.

No, but yes. Drag me, but you're right.

No, I'm not dragging. It's its own It's like, your accent is its own... It's delicious. When you say Bic, you'll be Bic. It's incredible. Where did you come up with that accent?

When I went on the first day off Broadway, it looked like I had won a contest to be in Hamilton because I had no sense of character. They were like, You have to do a British accent. I was like, But what? Everyone's Black. I don't understand why I have to do a British accent. You're right.

No one's historically accurate except for you.

But I have to do a British accent? Then I saw it and I was like, Oh, I get it. I'm the one thing. Okay.

The choice of your voice is incredible in it. Thank you. I love your accent.

Thank you. Then Pippa was like, There's this woman at Juilliard that can help you. She's... Because I was like, What? You're like, Oh, no. But here's the lesson I learned, too. When I went on and I had no at all. I had no accent. I was just trying to remember the words and the notes and then walk off. It was like they put me in a king thing and I walked out there and I did what I could remember, and then they pulled me off. But the song killed.

I mean, one could even say stole.

But I was like, Oh, I don't have to do anything. I came out here, I have no idea what I'm doing. Such a funny song. This writing is so genius.

And the device, sorry to interrupt, the device of you being the lover, the jilted lover saying you'll be back is such a funny device for- It's so surprising.

It is.

It's so funny.

It's like the first time people aren't rapping, so all the white people in the audience are like, Oh.

They're like, Now this is how I remember. Now this I understand. This is how I remember Broadway. It's so true. It is this great record scratch moment in the show, which, look, we could talk forever about Hamilton. It's beyond genius in every way. But it is so funny because it reminds you for just a second of how things used to be, vocally, lyrically, stylistically.

Yes. On so many levels. Dramaturgically. Yes. It's hitting on so many levels. And that lesson of like, Oh, I have no idea what I'm doing, but this song is killing, was then for the next two months when I started to learn the very specific upper, whatever, accent, and I was watching all the... I'm also so different than Brian Darcy-James. I was watching these clips of Barbra Streisand from her TV special, My Name is Barbara. I was watching her come out on stage and basically fuck herself with her own voice. I Just get into it. Enjoy so small, but enjoying every little… I was like, Okay. Then I started to build the character, but I'd never built a character in front of an audience in a show before. Wow. That was also a bit of getting pushed out there. Because the show was so great, I was able to just play catch up because you can be completely unaware of what you're doing, but sing that song and it nails it.

You were seducing us. You're very seductive and you're very laconic as that character. Laconic.

Talk about laconic.

Tell me that one. I believe it means. Sleepy. Just not thirsty. I have so many questions about backstage at Hamilton.

Okay.

Number one, were you allowed to come late?

Did I come late or was I allowed to?

Because you had about an hour before you were on, right?

No, I was on in the first 20 minutes, 25 minutes.

Then you have a big break. How long? An hour?

Oh, my God. So much time.

What do you do during that time?

It's such a good question. Okay, so Bobby Daran, I am off stage for 45 seconds in the whatever two plus hour thing. This is my preferred... I love being out there. When we walked into the dressing room at the Richard Rogers in tech for Hamilton, and Lynn and I were sharing a dressing room space, I was It was like whatever Adina Menzel had done the show right before, if then. My dressing room was Adina's waiting room. It was like a little closet. I was like, Oh, this is where I live. I'm on stage for nine minutes, but This is where I live. I started to get claustrophobic when I walked in of like, What am I going to do back here? I read so many books.

You couldn't leave the building?

No, because you're in the white wig.

You never ran out to get something and took the wig off.

I never ran out to get something. You're such a good boy. That's so boring.

Because you did a lot of performances. Yeah. I used to think about you backstage and be like, What's he doing back there?

I ended up really learning how to embrace... Well, I would have visitations from the cast. Oh, fun. There would be nightly visitations, which was great, and free hang time, which was... I could have done this. Yeah. We could have done...

Done school announcements, done the morning announcement.

It really feels like we're on the morning announcement. It really does. But then I started reading all the books that I wanted to read. I started to just It was like, boom, boom, boom, boom, knock through them all. It became a very productive time. Cool.

Very cool.

Then you had to come back out.

Mm-hmm.

That must have also been like, did you ever miss a cue? Never missed a cue. It's hard.

I can't believe I never missed a cue.

I know because it's hard when you... I mean, I know you work with total professionals who will make sure that you don't miss a cue. I'm sure all the stage managers are like, Yeah, you didn't miss a cue because I told you. Exactly. Ten minutes back. Yes, exactly. Exactly. But when you have that long stretch, it's hard to get... It's just like having one or two lines in a sketch. You really can screw it up.

Yeah, right. It's like a little sprint. I also find always having one or two lines to me is the hardest thing. Do you find that? Coming in, killing and leaving, cold, coming in cold. I would have five altoids in my mouth when I came on stage because it was to open up my...

Is that what they open up?

Yeah. I've now moved on to sugar-free Black Cherry Halls. I have one of those in my mouth for the entire show since I did Little Shop in 2019. That's my new thing. But in...

You're not afraid it's going to pop out or shoot out?

It's never shot out until five days ago. It did? It popped out during Splish-Splash, and I was like, I'd lost a tooth. But it bounced into the audience.

That's a really good Broadway story. It popped out during Splish Splash. It's like, Thank God it was just your Al toy.

During Bing Bang, I saw the whole gang. It came right out and went…

It's like, Why did he get fired? It popped out during Splish Splash, and it wasn't supposed to.

I mean, there are- It popped it out.

Yeah, he popped it out during Splish Splash. I mean, I'm projecting because I used to have a time… I don't know. Did you ever have nightmares? Have you ever had Broadway nightmares where you miss your late or… Like a stress stream?

Oh, yeah, of course.

I used to have stress streams all the time that there was a There was a staircase at S&L where you had to run down to get to the studio that I was running down and I was hearing my cue.

That's going to give me nightmares. Okay, so sorry.

Okay, so sorry. Yeah, but then I was missing a cue. Missing a cue. Those used to give me like, and to add to it, everyone I cared about and whose opinion I cared about were beyond the stairs being like, you're late. You missed it.

We're not mad. We're just surprised. Yeah, I was disappointed. I thought we would… I just can't believe Amy, of all people, missed the cue.

I guess it's the disrespect from me. Then let's talk about Marily, if we can. Of course. That experience must have been just so fulfilling in every way because to your point of turning 40, the show is all about the beginnings and middle and ends of things and how life feels like it's this shuffle of all those things and the friendships we make along the way. Here you are. Now I know. Almost a 20-year vet in the business when you're doing that show. I know how much Sondheim means to you.

Yeah, it smells like horse.

Yeah, he smells like horse. He helps you when you were scared of those horses. He probably has written a song about horses. I'm sure there's a- Is there a lyrics?

There's a reference to horse racing in Bobby and Jackie and Jack, one of the songs in Mary Louber roll on. There's a famous horse that's quoted in that song. But yeah, It was so crazy because I moved to New York in 2004. We did that show in 2024, so exactly 20 years to the year. It takes place exactly over 20 years, and it's about looking back. In Maria Friedmann, our incredible director's vision and staging of the show at the very beginning, Dan comes out over here. How did you get to be here? What was the moment? Lindsay comes out over here, over the shoulders of Frank, the character I played. How did you get to be here? What was the moment? In the exact positions, 15 years earlier, John Gallier Jr. Stood here as a ghost in Spring Awakening, and Liam Michel stood over this shoulder. Lindsay Mendez, L. M, Liam Michelle, L. M, the same initials of the actresses standing on this side of the thing. Talk about sense of memory. I had crazy things come up on that one. There would be moments where I... Because also it was the most, I think...

Well, he said, it was the most autobiographical thing he ever wrote. He said that about the song, opening doors. But I have a feeling from all the people that came through to see the show that we could talk to after and people that knew him and how Prince and Mary Rogers, that this was about him and his two friends and these relationships that fracture over time and the heartbreak and I would be saying a line to Lindsay on stage, and I would say it and it would come out and it would feel like Frank talking to the character of Mary It would feel like Steve talking to Mary Rogers. It would feel like Jonathan talking to Lindsay in this crazy therapeutic exorcism. It was wild.

So cool.

Yeah.

Amazing. I Then to have that be so celebrated, to really feel like people were ready for it, because for people who don't know, the history of that show is it really was ahead of its time, and it wasn't received the way it should have been received, and it needed to just marinate for some reason, much like the show itself, it needs time. The show needed time, and then it came back out, and it was celebrated in the way it was celebrated. It must have been so, so It must have just been so satisfying.

It was every dream I ever had come true. Then we made this movie of it. Yes. I went on Monday night last week to go see it just in a normal movie theater. I was weeping. Just like, I cannot believe this. Can't believe how Maria, the director, directed it so beautifully for film. It's like a hybrid between a filming of a theater piece and a movie. What she made is so unique and special. Feeling the audience in the movie theater get the story and the idea that this was his big flop of his career. Apparently, his big heartbreak, Steven Sondheim and Halpernce, it was the end for many years of their really fruitful, over a decade-long collaboration, that this show is captured in this way and is playing in movie It's so surreal.

Well, it's why longevity is the goal in work and in life, knock on wood, which is if you stick around long enough, things come back.

Yes, and you're exactly right. The ethos, too, of if you make something well in the moment, the faith that what you did is in that moment to make it well and then push that boat out. Then whatever that boat's journey is, is that boat's journey. But that you put the time and attention to detail and the care in the thing that you were making, merrily is the perfect example of they put their hearts and souls into that and they pushed out that boat and it was not received. But because it was crafted so well and such a beautiful piece, 40 years later, you're getting this boat is coming back around. Because the people when they made it in the present moment, took such care, it can exist and have this life. It gives me such faith in when we're creating things that if we do it with the proper intention and with everything we've got, then you just set it free. If it hits today, we have people from looking, we were canceled after two seasons, people still come up to me and say, This show changed my life. There's a If you do something with your whole heart, it can continue to resonate and stand the test of time.

So cool. It's like sending out a missive to space and just it taking that many light years to get there. Yeah. Lyrically, what is a lyrics for you that still bubbles in your head that you had to sing? What is one that was a hard one to get? What was one that always felt a bit of a hurdle? What was one that just tickles you still in your brain?

It's from the song, Growing Up, which the character of Frank sings. So old friends. Don't You See? We Can Have It All. Moving on, Getting Out of the past. This is the one for me. You ready? Solving dreams, not just trusting them. Taking dreams, not re adjusting them, growing up, growing up. This idea that you can have these dreams as a kid, and it's not something that you either make happen or you repress, but that you take this dream and you figure out what it was and what it still means to you, solving dreams, not just trusting them, taking dreams, readjusting them, growing up.

Yeah. Come on. Come on. That's That's major.

It's so good.

Yeah, that's so good.

It's so good. It's about it because there's an element of being in relationship to the past, but not having it hold you down. It would bring up something for me every single night different.

It's so good. It's also the theme of what we've been talking about a little bit today, the idea of if you're open and flexible to readjustment, that is what... It's the best you can hope for. Yes. Because nothing happens the way it's supposed to ever. No. You have to only just stay steady and flexible for what's coming.

Yes. It's such a paradox.

Yeah, it's so true. What I love about that, too, is the friendship in that show helps us solve the dream part, the solving of the dream. It's almost like it can't be done alone. Yes. When I wanted to talk to you today, one of the things that I wanted to talk to you today really is about the friendships you have made in the work that you do. I know it's really important to you. You have really made lifelong friends. The people that you share the stage with, they share your life. You do not leave productions and say, peace out, see you later. You're deep friends with people for life that you've worked with. It's really amazing.

Yes, it's interesting because I feel like a little bit that starts from a place of when I was closeted in high school and in community theater. I wonder if you feel this way, too, about writing and performing. You go there because you need that intimacy and you can't get it in your real life for whatever reason. There's a deep primal need to go and connect with people. That part of me is still alive. Even though I I came out of the closet. I'm better adjusted in my life. But when I go to work, I don't go to work. I go to live. I look at the people that I'm with and it's deep. It's powerful and it's profound.

Lindsay, Daniel, Leah. Can you tell me about Gavin Creel, who I never got to meet? Will you tell me just something about him? Because I love hearing about him.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, he changed my life. He changed my life because... Well, okay. Oh, my God. I'm going to tell a memory that I have about him. Please.

For people who don't know, Gavin is an amazing performer who passed a few years ago, a year ago?

A year and a month or two ago? Okay.

A little over a year ago. A little over a year ago. An incredibly talented performer and a dear, dear, dear friend of yours. Yeah.

I think he would I appreciate the story that I'm about to tell.

Please. Great.

Gavin, if you don't know Gavin, you have to Google Gavin. Gavin did a lot of amazing things and is a profound, amazing person. The first time I ever met Gavin, I also dated Gavin. We had a whole relationship. He's what gave me the confidence to come out of the closet. He changed my life. But the first time I ever met him was at the stage door of Thoroughly Modern Millie, which he was in, opposite Sutton. He played the role of Jimmy. I would wait at the stage door. I was in high school. The actors would come out and I was crazy. I just couldn't believe they were real people. To see them would give me energy and get me amped. I have a crazy story about Matthew Broderick that I'll get to share at some other time, but meeting him at the stage door. But, Gavin comes out and signs the program, and I was like, whoa. Then he goes back into the stage door. Then Mark Kudisch, who played Trevor gray, and comes out. He's signing my program, and Gavin comes back out the stage door with an apple in his mouth, and he walks past Mark Kudisch, grabs his ass, and Mark goes like, Oh!

And looks as Gavin is walking by, and Gavin just looks at him and winks with the apple still in his mouth.

Oh, my God. It's so hot.

I was like, I have got to be in the theater. What is this? What is happening here where this beautiful man with an apple in his mouth is tapping the ass of this other man, and they're like, But it's very free, and it doesn't necessarily feel sexual, but there's a subtext of sexualness. I was like, I've got to get into this world. That was the first time I met Gavin.

Just like, what an entrance. What a walk on from him. Totally. Isn't it amazing when people come into your life, they just are in your simulation, but you don't know how yet? Yes. They just walk in and it's like, cue the walk on. It's like, in five years, you two are going to be together, babe. Like, who knew?

Crazy. It was like primal. I still couldn't see it, the whole thing playing out. Okay.

Thank you for telling me that story and for reminding us about Kevin. Speaking of friendships that you made and relationships that you made, we spoke to Gracie Lawrence today. A new friend, in a way, although she said she feels like she's known you forever. Oh, my God. You and her were in your show together. You played Bobby Daren, she played Connie Francis. You had to really connect. She's incredibly She was really talented. She told a story about meeting you for the first time. You know what? It was really like an apple in the mouth story. You came into the room and she felt this energy. Because that's what I love about you is you are a star. I love stars. You're a good boy. You're a nice boy, but you're a star. Don't let anyone tell you You're tickling me so hard.

You are a star.

You are a star. You had just a moment of like, right? She has that moment with you. She had a question she wanted me to ask you, which is a very sweet question. Also, she was like, get ready for some amazing eye contact. She said, your eye contact is really great, and it is really great. I thought I would be overwhelmed by it, but I'm not at all. I love it.

No, your eye contact is also very good.

I didn't want to say anything, but I also have good eye contact. We'll be right back. Make sure you guys that you get your... The yearbooks are being passed out today. Oh my God. But I don't mind eye contact from the right person. But here's Gracey's question, and it was a really cute question. She said, I've never seen him nervous or anxious or rattled. She said, or frazzled is the word I think she used. She said, he has a Yoda-like calm. She said, Why aren't you more scared of things? Have you always been this way? What, if anything, Everything scares you now, little bitch, is what she said. Is what she said, how she said it. She said, you little bitch.

You little bitch. It's funny because Gracie, to me, I love her so much. I love her so fucking To me, she has a sociopathic calm when she's on stage. I saw her in Lawrence at Radio City, and she's singing. She's Tina Turner, basically. She's a rock star. The first thing that's coming up for me while I giggle a little bit is my dad also has fainting goats on his farm, on the horse farm, that freeze and fall all over.

Yes.

There's something, and I feel like it's... I've used it to my advantage. When something scary happens, I go dead calm. Something scary for me happens.

Yes.

I start to just talk really slowly, and I bring it all the way down, and I just am like, Okay. For example, I got sick for the first time two weeks ago doing the show, it was like the 250 whatever performance.

You've done that many performances?

Yeah. We did the Thanksgiving Day parade in the morning. Oh, that's right. On the Thursday.

You guys got to stop. I'm sorry. It's too much. It was like this- I need to talk to Broadway's agent and manager because when I see you guys out there in the morning, I'm like, Broadway.

Please file a complaint.

Broadway, no more of that. I've been like- I'm sorry. It's too much work.

It was fun. I was I was into it. You got to say that.

What are you going to say?

I'm like, a little... Let's go.

It's morning time. Okay, sorry. It's a lot of work.

But then look what happened. I was like, Let's go. I want to sing live. Let's go. We got there. It was freezing. Julia, one of the sirens, it looked like she was Beyoncé. The wind was coming out of us. We were like... The next day we... And then you got sick. The next day, we had a matinée on the Friday because it's Thanksgiving week. I woke up and I was like, Huh?

Oh, no.

I was like, I think I might have to call out of the show for the first time. But it started to come back.

250.

Then I say to our music director, This is going to be raw. I think this might be Rock 'n' Roll Bobby Daren for the weekend, just because it's pretty raw. Then I get out there and I'm feeling myself. I was like, Okay, it's coming back. Then I was like, This song, this could be the start of something big. I was like, This could be the The Stunt. And just sand in the mummy came out of my throat all over. And I was like… And then I was like, I'm Jonathan. I'll be your Bobby Daren today. And I was like, my voice, gone.

Gone.

And I get to answer Gracie's question, completely calm.

Yeah.

I was just like, Okay, and I'm going to see if it comes back. I'm going to sing the next song, couldn't sing it. Do the next song, couldn't sing it. Do the next song, couldn't sing it. The sirens, the girls in the show were like...

And the band just started playing.

The band is like, What's happening? Then I was like, I'm going to wait till I'm alone on stage because I don't want to put any of the rest of my count as mates through this. 20 minutes in, I'm alone, and I was Hi, everyone. This is Jonathan. I start the show as myself. It was like they thought it was part of the show. I was like, I'm Jonathan, and I really wanted to turn it out for you today because it's Thanksgiving week, and I know it's really an important time, but I've lost my voice, and I'm going to hurt myself if I continue. Matthew Magnuson is going to come on stage right now and be Bobby Darren, and he's amazing, and the show is amazing. Please stay and enjoy the rest of just in time without me. I walked off stage, and it was You know, like nightmares, like you're talking about the idea of losing your voice in a musical on Broadway could be like a nightmare. But I felt I went, I was in shock.

But also, may I just say, wisdom experience. No, it just experience. Experience sometimes can just... It's just like, you've just done the show a lot. You've been on stage a lot. For someone else, that could have been truly, it could have taken them down in a way where they'd never recover. Instead, you're like, this is one night in 250, and I'm going to be back here again, and I know how this goes. I'm going to take care of my cast. It's a very leader mentality. Thank you. I think you should sue NBC, and you should sue Radio City, and you should never, ever- Sue Macy's.

Do this.

Sue Macy's, sue all of those blooms. Outrageous. They make you do that. Okay, so you have to go. You have to go to your show, but I have one very last question for you. Question for you, which is what are you watching, listening to? You said you love your YouTube. Where do you go right now to laugh? I mean, obviously, you're laughing on stage. You're having a good time at night, but what's your laughy place?

Yeah, it's YouTube. What are you looking at right now? I'm not on any social media. Incredible. The one internet thing that I struggle with an addiction to is YouTube. I'm scrolling and I'm laughing. Even back in the days of Spring Awakening, I had the... Even back then? Yeah. The cast would come over. What were you watching? This is maybe 16 years ago. They would come over and I would be the This was before the iPhone. It was when the iPhone came out. But weirdly, even though I'm not on any social media, I was the one that knew the YouTube's that would make us laugh.

What was making you laugh back then?

Have you seen gay Everest?

Okay, first of all, let's just prepare ourselves before we watch this. A news blooper-is the best.

Is the best. That's my favorite.

Me, too. I could watch and have watched compilations of news bloopers forever.

Wait, me, too.

You know who else loves a news blooper? Who? Name dropped, Paul Rudd, who was on the show, and we watched a lot of news bloopers, and he loves a news blooper.

Okay. They are to me because there's the pretense of seriousness. It's literally us right now.

It's us right now. It's really us on the news. If we were live. We would be in a morning. This is us in a morning show.

High school and us was holding together.

Liz Kakowski, a writer in SNL, and Emily Spivey, used to always laugh and talk about wanting to write a morning show where they're violently hung over and trying to hold it together.

But I feel like there's also a story somewhere in we're a small town news show, and the gay guy and the female best friend, and now we're on the local news. We're We've worked our way up to the big league. Wgal is the one in Lancaster.

Wgal? That's great.

It's so good. Gal? Wait, why did I never It's W-G-A-L.

W-g-a-l. That's great. Wgal.

Then they have a huge falling out. Now we're on this, the idea of holding the tension. Suddenly, he's gay.

Move over, Morning Show. Right after the break, we're going to interview Eric Wyandmaier to climb the highest mountain in the world, Mount Everest.

But he's gay. I mean, he's gay. Excuse me, he's blind. He's doing the break. I'll look for the sixth part. You know what it is? It's like, But he's gay. I mean, he's gay. Excuse me. I mean, he's gay. Excuse me. That's my favorite part. But. Yeah, you're right. He's gay. I mean, he's gay. Excuse Excuse me. He's lying.

Which begs the question. It's like a Sondheim Lyric. Which begs the question, Is he gay?

There's another video on there of him reacting and being like, What? He's not gay. I've looked it up.

Okay. Because why does she say it twice?

But if I could say something now, I'd love to publicly ask a question.

Yeah, we can... You know what? That's actually no one's ever publicly asked a question after asked a question, so now's the time.

I'd like to publicly ask a question, which is another YouTube I love, which is the Grape Lady. Yeah.

Insane.

I want to know if she's okay.

Okay. If someone could let us know if the lady who was stomping grapes who fell down and really It sounds like really hurt herself.

She took a hard fall off that. She took a hard? Hope she's okay. Well, we're going to make sure she is.

And they're laughing. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. She took a hard fall off that. Yeah. Hope she's okay.

Jonathan Graff. Oh, my God. I loved our time together.

Oh my God, we call her the same. I loved our time together.

Friends for life, I know.

Rents for life. Let's go.

At the very least, co-host for our morning news.

Yes, on the morning news.

Thank you so much, Jonathan Graff. That was so fun. We knew it would be. What a hang. What a doll. In love. What a dream boat. For this Polar Plunge, I guess I just wanted to talk about Sondheim for a second because he is so incredible and his work is so incredible. And there's a lot of people that come through this studio talking about him. And I would just like to say that the thing I love the most about Steven Sondheim is how his music feels like a song rolling down a hill. It's never really starting It's always going, but it's not. It's just talking, and then it's going, and the song is starting, and it's starting this way, and it's going over here. But don't forget, it started over there, and it's about to start But it's not starting yet, and we're going over. I love the rhythm of it. It's so hard to sing, and I'm so glad I'm having to sing it. So, Stephen Sondheim, thank you for your work and your genius. Thank you, Jonathan Groff, for joining us. Thank you for listening always to Good Hang. Have a great day, week, month, and see you soon.

Bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weis-Burman, and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paperkite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya MacMullen, and Elea Zanaris. For Paperkite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovelle, and Jenna Weis-Burman. Original music by Amy Miles. All I ever wanted was a really good hang.