Transcript of Ryan Coogler

Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. This is a good one. We were thrilled when this person wanted to talk to us. Ryan Coogler, the incredible director. Sinners, Black Panther, Creed, Fruitville, Station, just so everything, all the good things. We're going to talk about so many things today. We're going to talk about football. We're going to talk about Jurassic Park. We're to talk about how vampires are sexier than zombies. We are going to get in the minutiae of the beautiful film Sinners that is up for all the awards and should win all the awards. I love this conversation with Ryan, and can't wait for you to hear it. We always start these episodes by speaking to somebody who knows our guest, who gives me a question to ask them and speaks well behind their back. Joining me today is Ludwig Jorensson. Ludwig is a, well, just the most preeminent composer has made music on all the films that you love and is a record producer and just is so super talented. He and Ryan have been working together forever, so we're going to join Ludwig, and I'm going to try out a little bit of my Swedish.

Hello? This episode of Good Hang This is presented by Nespresso. For those who never compromise on their morning rituals, especially their coffee ritual, Nespresso's new Virtuo Up makes your first cup irresistible. With a three-second start, easy open lever and dedicated coffee creations mode button, It's even easier to brew bold coffee over ice or milk. It's your coffee, your way. Nespresso. Shop now exclusively at nespresso. Com and use code AMI to receive a set of Lumet coffee mugs when you spend $50 or more while supplies last. How are you? My brother lives in Stocksund. Okay. So nice to meet you. Thank you for doing this. Where are we talking to you from right now?

I'm in my studio in LA, Los Angeles.

Excellent. And are you working on something right now?

Yes, I'm working on- I bet. New projects.

Can you tell us what it is or is it a secret?

No, I'm in the world of Chris Nolan right now. So that's taking up my time. It's really fun.

Well, we're talking to Ryan Coogler today. We're thrilled to talk to him. I'm a huge fan, and I'm really excited. And one of the things I've been learning as I've been getting to know him is how dedicated he is to the people he works with and how he has really long relationships with the people that he works with. And you two met at USC together?

Yeah, we met at USC early 2008, I believe.

What What was your first impression of him? Do you remember meeting?

Yeah, of course. When I first moved to LA, I lived in Clover City. And everyone in America told me that you need to get a car, right? You need to have a car. But I thought, oh, silly Americans, they don't get the idea of walking, right? But I quickly understood that the bus just doesn't come, right? So I moved to USA to live close to campus, I could walk from And I ended up moving into a fraternity house. That was only open for grad students. And it literally felt like... I didn't know what a fraternity was at the time. It literally felt like I moved into an American pie movie. So one night we had a party, Ryan came over and we ended up playing pool together. And I remember Ryan had these super long locks down to his back. And He was muscular in a way because he had just come from football. He played football for SAC State for college. And we started talking, playing pool, and And then I remember specifically talking about music, and he had a lot of knowledge about... We talked about Swedish artists. And that's what we started bonding over music, and then that translated into film And so we were just college kids in the beginning, started just hanging out at parties and talking about music and film.

Was there a moment when you decided we're going to work together forever? It's one thing to like each other's taste, but sometimes people work a certain way that doesn't connect with the way you like to work. How do you two like to work together and why does it work?

The first score I did was for a little feature, the student film he had called Locks, and I played guitar on that. It was just so funny because I remember his reaction when he first heard my music for his little short film, and he was blown away. He's like, Oh, my God, I can't believe someone writes music for my film. I was worried he was not going to like it first. When he was just blown away, that reaction, it was just so... It was so fun. Then every time we were together, he had such a... He was so passionate about his work, and it was always so fun. We both are addictive. We love our work, right? When you get to combine that friendship with work, so that makes it very special. You can hang out with your buddies while working.

Can I Can I speak out with you for a second on three films, Fruitvale, Black Panther, and Sinners? When you think of those three films, what instrument comes up in your mind first for each?

Fruitvale was guitar. Because I knew how much Ryan loved the guitar. I guess I never really thought about why he loves the guitar, and I never why he loves it until we started working on Sinners. I was like, I understand. Okay, well, his uncle was a great blues. He loved blues music, and he always played blues. Obviously, in blues music, guitar is the main instrument. Ryan grew up listening to that music, and it's always been in his bones and in his mind. My dad is a guitar player, and it was blues music that changed my dad's life to become a blues guitar player. 1964, he bought his first, my dad bought his first blues album, John Lee Hooker. That music, coming from the other side of the world to Sweden, changed his life to become a guitar player, and Obviously, he put a guitar in my hands when I was seven. It's a full circle there. That's really cool. With Prevail Station, I would say the guitar is the main instrument. Black Panther is the talking drums.

I don't really know what talking drums are. Could you explain?

Yeah, it's the first type of communication device. It's the first telephone. In Africa, and specifically, I went to Senegal and West Africa. But the talking drum exists in so many different regions down in Africa. But it's basically a drum that you can play messages with because it's very small and you can breathe and you can squeeze it to have different pitches. With these different pitches and these different rhythms, you can talk. It's almost like Morse code, but analog on a drum. In every village, they would have a talking drum that would relay messages to the everyone. He would stand in the middle, he or she would stand in the middle and then play. You could tell, Oh, the king has died, or someone's back from being gone for a long time. Everyone get together. I met this incredible musician in Senegal, Masamba Diop, who put together an amazing talking drum crew, and we recorded a bunch of stuff in Senegal. One thing that I thought was interesting was how would you say Tachela's name on that instrument, on that drum?

Oh, wow. Very cool.

The theme. For Sinners, yeah, it's guitar again, and we're back to where it all started.

Yeah, and Buddy Guy, who was in the film and who I wanted to talk to Ryan about. It's just amazing. An amazing moment at the end of the film.

Yeah.

Thank you for talking about Ryan, and I'm really excited to talk to him today. Do you have a question for me before we go that you think would be fun for me to ask? It could be big or small. It could be asking story to tell. It could be a private joke of your many years together, or it could be something about the film or anything at all.

I mean, you could ask him because when we were doing Sinners, he was practicing guitar. He was playing almost every day. He had a guitar in his office. He took it with him when he moved to New Orleans for a production. I spent a little, not a lot of time, but a little time with him, just showing him how certain riffs was going. That's something you could check in with him. How is his chops coming along? Perfect. Okay. And only because the movie is over doesn't mean that he doesn't need to keep it up.

Yeah, right. Ludwig says, you just can't put it down. Like, next time I see you, I expect you to have improved. Exactly. Yeah, great. Well, thank you so much for your time. It really means a lot that we got you in what I know is probably a busy day with a young up and coming filmmaker, Christopher Nolan. I wish him the best. And just It was such a fan of your work and really, really appreciate your time, Ludwig. Really nice to meet you.

Very nice to meet you, too. I hope to see you maybe in Sweden next time.

Anytime. And Tuck, are you?.

Yes. Okay.

Thank you so much. Thank you. This episode is brought to you by Visible. Got a resolution to save? Kick 2026 off right with Visible. It's a one-line wireless plan with unlimited data and hotspot for $25 a month, taxes and fees included, all on Verizon's 5G network. It's the ultimate wireless hack to save money and still get great coverage and a reliable connection. Now, for a limited time, new members can get the Visible plan for just $19 a month for the first 26 months. Ring in the new year with code Switch 26. Share the savings with a deal that is too good to keep quiet. Switch now at visible. Com. Terms apply, limited time offer subject to change. See visible. Com for plan features and network management details. Ryan Cougar is here. I am so happy. Thank you so much for doing this.

Thanks for having me. This is amazing. I can't believe I got invited here.

Are you kidding? We're thrilled you wanted to do this. And I just got to start by saying, I'm going to glaze you a little bit in the beginning.

No, please don't.

I know you're not comfortable. It'll only take a few minutes. I promise I'll be done. When I was thinking about what I wanted to talk to you about today, the big thematic thing is that, and what I love about your work and your characters is that you don't limit the possibilities of what you want to do as an artist and what your characters could do. You're really into the idea of almost open borders in terms of what people can do and also what's in them, basically what's in them. I feel like that comes from... I've been reading so much about you and watching, of course, everything you make. It feels like you're really into this idea of making sure that you get influences from everywhere, that that really informs you. Why do you think it's important to be influenced all the time by many different things?

I think for me, I'm interested in a lot of different things. And all of my experience has definitely informed me where I find myself, right? Yeah. I think that what I do, and And the position I occupy in the industry is I'm trusted to make things that can go into theaters and work for people from a lot of different backgrounds and environments and circumstances, right? Yeah. So I think what I have to do is I have to stay true to myself and what I like, and also consider what What people came up consuming, if that makes sense. Is that a track for you?

It does. And what you're saying is really interesting, too, because as an artist, you have such a strong instinct about what you want. Yeah. And it's almost like you almost want to forget who you're making it for. But what I love about your work is you don't. Well, yeah. You don't.

Yeah, not all of that for sure, because I can't. I fell in love with movies at At the multiplex. I didn't go to an art house theater or to a film festival until I was a fully baked adult. You know what I'm saying?

When you were a kid, what did you eat at the movies? Tell me about your movie experience. What would you bring stuff in, sneak stuff in? Would you get it there?

I cannot confirm or deny any snack smuggling. But if I did, I might have brought a peanut butter and jelly sandwich or two. You know what I mean? That was what I would do if I wasn't in that. But no, I used to like it. It was a period in time where they used to let you weigh the candy. You know what I mean? You pay by weight. And I would do experiments trying to see what candy was lighter, that it looked crazy, which candy was heavier?

You just get a trash bag full of cotton candy.

Exactly. We in there with limited funds. And shout out to all the cinemas that used to let us stay. Once we bought one thing, we could go in. They weren't tripping off us going to see something else. Get a little bang for your buck. But no, my go-to was peanut M&M's. I'm not a big soda person, but when they started to let you mix and match the drinks, I got involved with that. It was peanut M&M's. And then obviously the junior mix, if they're in the freezer. If they got them in the freezer, then I'm going to do it.

The ritual of getting your snack and sitting down and lights going down. I know you've talked about it, but it's so important for you for films to live in theaters. Why is it so important for you?

Man, I know you've talked about it, but it's so important for you for films to live in theaters. Why is it so important for you? You I know. Are we talking about this? No, I just love how... I mean, shit, is the word egalitarian? I love how it's just you in there with a bunch of different types of people. It's teenagers in there because that's the only place I could go be alone. It's retired couples. You know what I mean? It's groups of friends depending on the movie you're going to see. But everybody's in there together. And when a movie is great, everybody unifies. You could feel everybody's energy, focus on the same thing. And what I actually really love about it that I learned about myself since Since the streaming era, it's like when I get overwhelmed, whether it's something's too funny or something's scary or I got too much anxiety or I'm too turned on by while I'm looking at a whatever, I pause. Almost Immediately. You know what I mean? Out of a fear that maybe I'm going to miss something because I'm laughing too hard or out of a worry that I'm going to get too worked up and I'm going to have a fucking heart attack or something.

Can you curse on this? Yeah, you curse. I'm I'm going to have a heart attack or something. I'm going to have a fucking panic attack. I'll pause. But it was dope. In the theater, you can't pause.

That's so real.

When something is happening that has you feeling like you're out of control, you still got to go with it. That feeling of giving yourself over to something that you don't have to control, to pause, rewind, or fast forward. That is a really nice feeling. You come from it, from imp-off comedy.

You're making me remember, when I went to the movie theater, too, what also happened was I wanted to be funny. So also it was a place where you could be funny. You'd have a moment, a quiet moment, especially in the trailer. It's not so much a movie. Sometimes people wouldn't like it. But in the trailer, a trailer would come out and someone would be like, Nope, or whatever.

After the trailer.

Or you know, or something. You get to get a laugh in a group. That was sometimes a lot of people's first laugh.

Oh, that's awesome. I never thought about this.

Also in movie theaters, a lot of action happens. Like your first date. Totally. You're scared. You grab someone's hand. The first time I held someone's hand was in a movie theater. It is so intimate. It's so cool. What were the movies that you can remember as a young person going in and walking out of that theater and feeling like you had been completely transformed?

Yeah, it It'll be two big ones, Boys in the hood. I was a baby in there, man. You're younger than my eldest kid is now. And she can't get through a Pixar movie without being like, Dad, it's too crazy. My dad had me like, Boys in the hood, like right here, son. I'm like, four years old. Like, oh, shit. But then Beauty and the Beast. Yeah. And then Malcolm X. Yeah. All of these was like, in the garden first day. And then I would say probably one of the biggest ones was Jurassic Park. We saw Jurassic Park when Oakland still had a drive-in. And I remember And I remember being in the car. I used to hook the speakers up to the window. And I'm in there. And it's the scene where the T-rex scene at night. That thing comes out. They in a car driving away from me. And then they got the shot in the side view mirror where it says objects may be closer than they appear. And a T-rex is right on them screaming. And I'll look at my side view mirror and it's got the same shit written on it.

So I'm like,. You know what I mean? Like a T-rex jumping off. I'll never forget that shit, man. And I got addicted to that feeling.

Yes, Yes.

So I got the opportunity now to try to attempt to give people that feeling.

So you mentioned Oakland. You grew up in Oakland. You're going to school there. You're really good at sports. You're really good at football.

I was all right. Yeah.

Okay. You're really good. What position did you play?

In college, I play a receiver. Yes, so I retire in kicks, play receiver.

When you're a receiver and you're in college, are you always worried about your hands? When you're out, you're like, I can't do that.

No, I didn't think about it like that.

You don't treat your hands like- No, I didn't.

Okay. I didn't. Okay. Yeah, no. I was like...

It feels like it would be like you did get- No, I mean, if I was smart, I would have been able to...

I was 17. I wasn't tripping. I was literally slamming my hand in car doors. So it wasn't really something I should have been thinking about. But now the kids get paid, which is great. I was on a scholarship, which is the most you could do legally. You know what I mean? At the time. And I was thrilled that I could pay for school because my parents was busting their ass, put me through private school most of my life. So I was thrilled, man. I was not thinking about my hands.

No. Did you love that feeling of playing foot? What was so great? Oh, yeah, I loved it. And you're a Raiders fan growing up, obviously?

I was agnostic. In the Bay, I was agnostic.

Do you have any posters on your wall? Did young Ryan have posters on?

I did.

Were they athletes or were they artists?

Yeah, I had athletes, artists. I had them more.

Who did you have?

It's crazy. I had Jerry Rice. I had Tim Hardaway, Warriors, run TMC. Down the road, I would get into other athletes. Hakeem Olajuwon was a big one for me. And then football-wise, once I started playing receiver, I liked all the receivers, man. Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Tim Brown, Steve Smith. Steve Smith, I love because he was short like I was. He was still out there making it happen.

It's interesting. Athletes just like anyone else, I find, looking for people that look like them. Absolutely. That are good because it's like... Absolutely. Yeah.

But I also knew that I would meet players like Maurice Jones, Drew, or Marshawn Lynch. Like players I would play against, and I'll be like, Man, they got a lot better than me. You know what I mean? You were like, Oh, they're going to be- You come across players that's like, Oh, that's something different happening there. And that was how I also could see early, maybe football wasn't going to be what I did for ever.

How about Marshawn being a comedy star now? Yeah. Was he always funny?

I mean, he's not funny when you're trying to tackle him. You know what I'm saying? I used to really play against him. We came across each other a lot. In high school, he was trying to guard me. So I was dealing with him on offense and defense. I I got some success on the offensive side against him, but trying to tackle that man was impossible. So he was not funny on the field. But as a person, he was hilarious. You know what I mean? His whole family is like that, though. Yeah. Our family is from the same part of Oakland. His mom, hilarious. You know what I mean? Like his brothers.

How do you go from... So you're playing in your finance major, and then you switch to becoming a film major?

No.

You leave and go to USC after- Yeah.

I went to high school in Berkeley. And at this point, I was living in Richmond, another city that's even more blue collar than Oakland, right? Yeah. And I got a scholarship to a school called St. Mary's College, which is in the Bay. I had a teacher there, Rosemary Graham, who read something that I wrote in a credit writing class. I was like, you should write screenplays. But at that time, I was a chemistry major. So I figured I was going to try to be a doctor or something, right? But the chemistry lives was not working out with my football practices. I was having a real tough time. So I was like, I got to get out this chemistry shit so I can keep my scholarship. And that football program collapsed. So I got another scholarship to Sacramento State, went there and measured in finance, but I took filmmaking classes on the side, if that makes sense.

Yeah. When I've been learning about you, like, USC, you met so many people.

Oh, yeah, everybody Talking about a team.

It's where you met your team.

Yeah, absolutely. I met all the members. That's when I was grad school. Right. I met, I guess, all the people I work with. Ludovic was who I met first. A little bit Yorenson, my composer. And then my co-writer on Cree, Erin Covington. And then eventually I meet Seb O'Hanian.

Yeah, your producing partner.

Yeah, who works with me in Zanzi at Proximity.

And you met your beautiful wife Zinzi there.

Well, Zinzee, I met in Oakland. I met Zinz.

You met when you were 13.

I was 13, yeah.

You guys grew up together. Yeah, we did. You grew up together. I think it's so amazing when you talk about all the stuff that you make, you talk about the people that you make it with, which, in my opinion, really, I don't know. I so respect artists who remind people that what they make is a communal effort. Oh, yeah. But people don't always want to do that, right? Sometimes that's just not their first instinct. And it really is. And I know Zinzy makes your films with you. And how important is she in terms of your process? How do you guys work together?

We just... So we started dating in high school. We broke up for a little bit. And then- What happened there? I mean, that's not for a podcast. Okay. High school is shit. But we got back together right before we went to college. And what we would do that summer before we left, because we was both on a scholarship, she went to Fresno State. I went to St. Mary's, like I mentioned in there. Sacramento State. But what we would do is we would just work out together to get ready for college, and we go to the movies. That was it. We was either on the track working out in the waiting room, living away, or we was at the movies. Emreville and Richmond and Oakland. And for us, we got really used to just pushing each other and supporting each other. Being at each other's meets, her being at my football games. She's incredibly shy, but at my games, I could hear her voice while I was out there trying to catch touch downs and everything. I tried to do the same for her, that track meets. And when I got interested in filmmaking, she was just really supportive.

I was writing screenplays in Microsoft Word and venting to her like, Man, if one day I got this software that cost 300 bucks called Final Draft, and maybe one day I could get that. You know what I mean? So I got to adjust the margins and all of that. And then she set up her money, got that from me. And it wasn't just like, here, baby, here goes the drive. She was like, Where's that script at? Where's that thing you're working on? The athletic mindset. So how it works is I always talk to her about what I'm thinking about working on. I home my pitch with her. She'll be the first person to read what I write, give me feedback. So my scripts always going on. I really home at the early stages in my career. In the film school, she was with me all the time. She would enter all the classes with me as she worked on the sets, producing, and sometimes operating a camera. If I had to jump in. So it was that support, and it just stayed that way through Fruitville when we shot at Home. That was when we first moved in and started living together.

She was on set. Even though she had a day job, she would just come get off work.

I'm trying to say. How many days did you shoot Fruitvale Station in?

Do you remember?

Twenty days. Twenty? Yeah. What I'm learning or what I feel like I know about you, Ryan, is you're super collaborative and also you know what you want. Those two things are so important, I think, for any real leader, especially on set. But I don't think enough people know that a set is a little town. Totally. It's like so many people working.

No, totally. And your parents were school teachers. Yeah. So you get it. That blue-collar mindset, the communal mindset, the need for Communication. For me, it really is. I think that's why movies work when they work. Because you're talking about mass entertainment. You know what I mean? A lot of people going to go and engage with the story.

But that's why you're such a genius is because it's It's hard to make a movie, number one. Just it's hard to make a movie. Then it's hard to make a good movie. Then it's hard to make a good movie that people enjoy making with you. They walk away and go, That was a good experience. Then it's hard to make a good movie that was enjoyable to make that people go and see. Yeah. Those things are really hard to make. You've done it over and over and over again. And you've done it again with Sinners. So incredible. Thank you. And I picture you going to your team and being like, I have an idea. And they were like, what was their first instinct?

So I went to Zanzi first. And it wasn't fully baked. And she was like, Man, I ain't ready yet. Keep thinking on that. So I thought about it some more. I think I went to her three times before she was like, Okay, that makes sense. And it was better for it. And then it goes to Seb O'Hanian, who we were the three founders of Proximity. And we got a co founder in Ludwig Jørgensson. And this is a music-based film, so we brought Ludwig in crazy early. Early? Yeah, exactly. Before that was a script while it was just all I did.

That's so interesting, Ludwig. So were you always thinking about Michael B. Jordan from that? You were always thinking about using him as the Twins. I was. And the Twins was always an early... Yes. Why Twins? It's hard to shoot. I know. This extra work.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, look, it was a hook for me. It was so sticky, right? And in this day and age, I think you need multiple reasons to lean in. When there's so many great things available, I was in the waiting room. I'm watching you and Julie, Dreyfus talk, and it's so entertaining. It's an hour of two really entertaining people being intimate and talking. That's just on my phone for me to click. There's so many ways to spend time. So for me, I think that I'm a firm believer in things having multiple hooks. You know what I mean? And it's a hook for me because I have twins in my family, and I love them. And I got a lot of homies that's twins. But I also have a crippling fear of doppelgangers. Like a strike phobia. You know what I mean?

No, I don't. What do you mean? What are you afraid of? That you're going to run across your own?

Yeah, I've had nightmares like that. You have? Yeah, but also like...

Because I know what you mean, because no offense to twins, but twins, the idea of twins in general is a little creepy.

It's a little creepy.

It's great. It's just creepy enough.

Someone who was in the womb with you. Well, yeah, that's fascinating to me. And we dug deep with Mike. I got two buddies who are filmmakers, Noah and Logan Miller. They actually wrote the script G20 that Viola was in. She the President doing action shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're from Northern California, a little bit farther north than where I'm from. And I actually asked them if they would be open to being consultants on a movie, to work with me and Mike on developing the characters. And we dug so deep into the mindset and the dynamics of what it's like to have essentially a copy of yourself next to you all the time. But Michael B, he just knocked knocked me back by his brilliance and how he portrayed these characters.

Where did you first see Michael? Did you see him before you knew him? Did you see his-Oh, yeah. Did you watch The Wire? I did. So good enough. Yeah.

He was heartbreaking. Hardbreaking. Yeah, Wallace. Yeah. That was heartbreaking. I knew a lot of kids like that. Both friends of mine and also when I was working with my dad. So, yeah, it was a brilliant Brilliant portrayal. Kudos to Mike for his performance and David Simon for writing the character. And HBO for having the show. You know what I mean?

That show was a next level.

Yeah, and then he was great Friday Night Lies. Yeah, that's right.

Do you think it's important for directors? A lot of directors have an actor that they get to... You've had a few. But an actor that you get to keep working with and working stuff out with. Why is that helpful to work with the same person more than once.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's great, man. It's funny because it actually comes back to football for me because I play a receiver and I play with a lot of different quarterbacks, especially in college. And it was tough because I never felt like I found my rhythm with one person. And that's so important. I think finding a rhythm is fundamental, I think, to achieving greatness. Yeah. So it's phenomenal to have found an actor who's so talented, gifted, ambitious, because Mike is constantly trying to push himself and get better at his craft. He's professional, but he's also a good person. When you're doing a movie with him, if he's number one on your car, you know that you're going to have a safe set for people. He's going to be able to do great work without making people's lives miserable. He's going to treat people with kindness. He got nothing to prove. So he learns the PA's name. He learns the camera operator's name. The same way he'll know the producer's names. And that is something that I think permeates the set at a foundational level. I've been very blessed in that.

Well, one could argue, too, that that's also what you transmit, give off. That's your station. Your channel is attuned to that, so people take their cue from you.

I try to, but it's great to have Mike there to amplify it because that's who he is. And he's ridiculously talented. And he was doing work that required a lot of focus. He was still generous to people, even though he'll come to the sale in a day where he's got to be two different people.

Was it fun to call him up and be like, You're going to be a vampire?

What was crazy is- Because I would be psyched if someone called me and said that. We might have to make the call or something. Man, we might I had to figure it out. But for me, what it was, was how it ended up working. I was trying to get the screenplay together because Mike's busy. And I didn't want to say, Hey, I got a thing. And then have him waiting for a script. I didn't need him blowing my phone up. I didn't wear his set. But what ended up happening was he called me and pished me something while I was working on this for him. At first, I was like, Mike, I can't work on that right now. And he got upset like, Hey, man, what's going on, man? I want to get this going. It's something you're not telling me. So I'm like, Look, I'm working on the thing.

It's interesting. You're like, I have a secret, but I'm not ready to tell you yet.

I'm bringing this to you. This is what it is. It's twins. It's period. It's vampires. And I remember how he reacted because he just got quiet for a long time. And I was like, Oh, shit. Did I lose him? And he's like, Man, you know what? That sounds pretty interesting, man. He was like, Okay, when you going to do it? And so I got the script done and got it to him, and then he was in.

I'm not a big horror... I get scared at movies, and I'm not really a big horror fan. But what's so cool about vampires is vampires are sexy. Exactly. Zombres are not.

Zombres are not sexy. No. No.

Ampires are sexy. It's true. And your film has a... There's so much going on. It's just so amazing. And original IP and beautifully written and beautifully acted and shot an incredible cast. The chemistry between the characters in your film is so real. And the way in which you basically create in the midst of horror, like love and romance and sex. You do a lot of things in this movie really, really well. And I would just I'd like to say the most of the many things in the film that I loved. Can I just get small for a second to talk about the scene, the dancing scene in the film? Autumn, your incredible DP, first female DP to shoot in this IMAX format, Archipa.

Autumn Archipa, yeah.

And Autumn. But how did you guys approach the scene? There's that beautiful scene where everyone's dancing and enjoying themselves before the horror starts, and their ancestors They join them. How did that scene look on the page?

Yeah, I could tell you. Because I outlined the script before getting into final drive and writing it. I didn't have that surreal element to it. It was just going to be that Preacher Boy sing and people like it.

That's what it said in the script?

No, no, no. That's what it said in the outline. Okay, the outline. In the outline. When I got to it in the script, I felt strange because I had fallen in love with all these characters, and I didn't want them to die. You know what I mean? I realized in this movie, they all got to get bit in the neck and check out. You know what I'm saying? I felt bad, and I realized that this scene was the midpoint. It down to me, these people, the real people, not in my script, but the real people that They're based on these Black folks in the 1930s who were of age to be in this juke joint. They were living in Clarksdale during Jim Crow. They all were They all were sharecroppers because it was nothing else that the society allowed them to be. Their grandparents were enslaved. Their children, their children's children, would still be sharecroppers. But somehow they invented probably the most impactful American contribution to global popular culture. And they invented it just because they wanted to feel alive for a few hours, Friday and Saturday night. I don't think they had any idea that the music that they listened to would change the world.

So I thought about that. I said, Man, I'm about to kill them by vampire? I got to have something else in the movie that That is like some type of victory moment. And that was where the idea of depicting just how powerful and transcendent Sammie's voice is. If it could call a vampire, maybe it could call these people's ancestors and descendants, too. So I wrote the script. I wrote it all in italics. I clicked the italics on it and I kept it all in one chunk. Wow. Almost like a stream of consciousness. And left it like that in the script for when my partner's read it and everybody read it to know it, to really read that differently.

Yeah, it was so powerful. And thank you for giving that context to it, because that's what it felt like. It felt like you were loving those characters in real-time. That's what it felt like. I appreciate that. It felt like a loving gesture. And we felt that when we saw it. It was so, so beautiful. And so beautifully shot. Just the way the camera moves.

I mean, it was everybody working in concert with each other. We brought in Aamond Jones, who's a choreographer, works a lot with Usher Rayman. The choreographer, like pitch perfect. And he did all the Panther films. I actually met him through Chadwick Bosman. Rest in peace. And every department was in on that, from Hannah Bichler to our visual effects supervisor. Michael Raleigh and James Alexander. They're all archipards. Sematographer, obviously. We had a brilliant Steadicam.

Yeah, the Steadicam work was incredible.

It's a kid named Rennie. Haitian-american kid, ex-football player.

His shoulder must have been hurting in that one.

Yeah, he used to be strong, strong, good, and sharp. Everybody had to work together. The actors, the incredible dancers, Ruth Carter with our costumes. Yeah, beautiful. And it was like that was the most team effort of everything that we did. That scene, as well as, I used to call the twin counterpart, which is the step dancing scene that happens a little bit later in the film.

Yeah, it's so beautiful. And I want to say you talk about your work on Black Panther and Chadwick. You gave a beautiful speech recently at the Hollywood Walk of Fame about Chadwick, which is beautiful. And I don't think people ask you enough or I don't hear enough. What did you guys laugh about when you would work together on Black Panther? Me and Chad. When you think about the times where you laugh together.

Have you seen Chad on SNL? Oh, yeah. He's hilarious. He is He played James Brown. He can do anything. No, but his natural way of being, I think- Does he like to tease? All the time. No, but he would do it in an accent, which is what He was crazy about him on the set. He was very disciplined. So he's constantly in accent. It just being like, he'll be ridiculous. In between takes, I'm trying to think of like- Did you guys You for around when you're...

I mean, you're working hard.

I was ridiculously stressed out. Like, unbelievable stressed out. I bet. And we know now what Chad was dealing with. But he was incredible, man. And deeply funny. Deeply funny, man. He would tease with Lupita and Denai. Constantly cracking jokes, man. We would laugh most about the costumes. I bet it must be fun to introduce a new costume.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah, man. But Some of the props, too. Man, we would joke. We would joke and say that he was going to give him... It was a walking scene, and we would joke and say we was going to give him the giraffe tail, that he can swipe flies away while he was walking with Lou Pizza. And he was a martial artist. That's right. So he took the little thing.

Yeah, he had the ability to clown. He was so talented. So talented.

He was gifted, man. But he had a great sense of humor.

I feel like comedy sometimes is where we stay connected, sometimes with the people that have passed. Like thinking about the times we laughed with them. 100 %. And I feel sometimes they make us laugh. We see something that makes us laugh, that makes us think of us laughing with them. I don't know. I just think it's fun sometimes to think about those times.

For sure, man. I think for For me, when I look back on my relationship with him, man, it taught me so much. But the biggest thing is to not take things for granted. Even all it is, Amy, the success of the film, being invited to do podcasts with you, doing awards press with my cast. Before losing him, I would be not present in those moments. I would be overwhelmed or be considered it to be work or dealing with imposter syndrome or have you. But since losing him, because he would be the one to snap me out of that. When I would be stressed on Panthers, I'll say, Man, I got to hurry up and do this or I'm going to get fired. And he would say, Hey, man, stop saying that. He actually pulled me to the side. It was like, Yo, stop saying that. And I'm like, No, I truly believe that. He He was like, I'm not going to let anything happen to you. He told me, I'm not letting nobody fire you, bro. Like me. So please stop saying that. Relax, man. Do your work. Enjoy it. And that very act of being present, he was so So he was so good at that.

So I think about that all the time. Even walking in here with you, I'm like, Man, I'm really here. I ain't seen this set on a podcast. I'm here talking, I've seen you perform and watch all your movies and your shows. It's like, damn, I'm I'm being invited to come sit in this same spot. Are you kidding, Ryan? Just being present. I literally learned that from him.

That lesson is, I feel like, I feel like the lesson we just have to keep remembering and being reminded of over and over again, be where you are. Yes. Be where your feet are. Be where you are. It's hard. It's not easy. But you're right. It's a gift every time you're reminded of it. So are you getting to enjoy the fact that you have a gigantic, successful movie that's being rewarded and will be awarded. And you're with these people that you work with now for really long? It's awesome.

Yeah, I have a ton of my life.

And so we do this thing on the show where we talk to people who know our guests. We talk well behind their back before we talk to them. And we talk to Ludwig today.

Okay. Oh, man, that's crazy.

Okay. First of all, so Swedish. Yeah. My brother lives in Sweden, so I tried to talk a little Swedish to him.

How did it go?

It didn't go well.

He talked back to you in English?

No, he talked back to me in Swedish and I panicked. I totally panicked.

When you got through the first step- I said two words and then he answered me and I froze. Usually, when I try to speak in other language, the people who native speakers, they just talk back to me in English and be like, Hey, you all, stop it.

You know what I'm saying? Oh, I know. There's nothing sadder than when they talk back to you in English and they're like, What are we trying to do here? Yeah. So you got Swedish back. So I did get... Thank you. You're right. Maybe I should look at it as a win. So I got Swedish back.

You got the first bass. You know what I mean?

Exactly. He definitely... He was humoring me. I mean, what an incredible talent. And the music, it's so interesting to me that you brought him in so early because you can tell that But I mean, this is a movie about the power of music, too. You have Buddy Guy be the embodiment of the before and now. It's just a living person Listen. Totally. In many ways, almost feels like a vampire in the way that feels like he's still here and was there then.

It was there then. It's so cool. It wasn't that long ago. That's what the movie is saying.

Yeah, right. And a very good reminder.

I cheated him for younger because if the character would have actually been Buddy's age, it would have put the movie into the 2000s. Right. They would have put it in 2002 as a part of the '92, which would have put the fashion like it is today. So it would have probably confused- Oh, right.

Yeah. Because you need a little bit- Confused audience. That's really interesting. When you and Ludwig, he's talking about how amazing it is to work with you, how collaborative it is to work with you. He also said there were a bunch of different versions of Sinners before the final version and working on that together and figuring out what that was and how his dad and your family, the Blues- It brought us together. It did. How did it bring you guys together?

Well, the history of how the blues became this instrument of global cultural change was really interesting. The Delta Blues, when the record industry came, they made those records, race records. And this was a time where the country was segregated. And the record industry was a product of that. So they would put race records over here, anything made by a black person. The same record made by a white person. I call that maybe rock and roll or bluegrass or country. And black musicians When the record industry was burgeon, they couldn't tour. But their records would travel overseas. And a lot of bands in Europe fell in love with the music, maybe most famously, the Rolling Stones, for instance, or the Beatles. And then those guys would come to the States and seek out these musicians. And then take them on their European tours as an opening act. And in Sweden, Ludovic's father saw, I believe, John Lee Hooker and Albert King. That's what he said. Yeah, and was so inspired by seeing him that he decided that he wanted to become a Bull's guitarist and became one. And when he had his first son, who was Ludwig, he introduced him to guitar guitar lessons.

His dad made money as a guitar teacher. What's crazy is Ludwig, how he tells me, it was something that he liked spending time with his dad, but he wasn't necessarily crazy about the music that his dad was listening to until he heard Metallica. And then boom, he fell in love with it and became a guitarist, had a jazz quartet, all kinds of different stuff going with the music school. Eventually, came to the States to learn how to become a film composer. And that's how we met. We met in school in 2008.

Yeah, you met at a party.

We did. I mean, if you want to call it that, it was pretty dead. Bunch of people sitting around. It was a bunch of nerds sitting around. And we was two of them. You know what I mean? Thank God I found him.

Yeah. His question to you is a perfect musician guitarist question. Which his question that he wanted me to ask you was, how is your guitar playing going? Oh my God. He wants to know how it's going. Okay, so maybe there's one thing you're not great at.

It's a lot of things I'm great at. You should bring Zinzin in here. She'll tell you all of them. But no, I'm terrible. It's not going well. Yeah, it's not going well.

Good. It makes the rest of us feel a little better that you're also not excellent at guitar, blues, I don't know yet. No. But you're learning.

You're trying-Better at typing. But the guitar is still there. My kids play now. But I got to get back on my lessons.

Yeah, he wanted to check in. No, it's not going well. Okay, we'll let them know. Well, I just want to say before we wrap, is that the effect that Black Panther had on... I went to the movies to see that with my sons, my teen sons. And to see something together, a shared experience like that together, and to walk out, to your point, out into the world after feeling completely changed. The color of the sky is different, and the way we're talking to each other is different, and the things we've heard is different. The way in which their lives were truly changed by that film is so special to me. I thank you for it because it's not always easy to find that, especially a mom and her boys and teen boys, and to find something that you can share in together and love equally. It's such an incredible piece of art. They would want me to ask you if you're making another one. Yes. Okay. That's all I want to know.

They want me to know. My mom was my movie buddy, and she still is. So yeah, I got that. Hearing that story, I can't tell you how many times I've been in the car with my mom going to go see a movie she was excited about. When I was too young to go to see a movie, she would come back from dates with my dad. If the movie was good, she She just stand there in the living room and act out the movie for me. Walk me through everything that happened. That's so cool. My fondest memory was her doing that with the fugitives. She's like, Yeah, in the air, she's before it jumps down the waterfall. And then Tom Lee Jones says, I don't care. And then That was my mom. So hearing that you watched it with your boys, you all had a nice time, that means everything to me.

Thank you. It meant a lot to me, too. I really appreciate it. And the last question I want to ask you is your relationship to comedy. I think in all the stuff that you do, you have fun with the ways. And again, you don't put boundaries on how your characters are going to react to things. Sometimes they're light and comedic. You want to have fun in the stuff that you make, and you want people have fun when they go and see your films. What were some influential comedic films for you growing up? And what's making you laugh now? How do you laugh?

Man, it's so funny. A lot of it for me these days is coming from the Internet. Like big time, man. But coming up, One of my favorite movies is Coming to America.

Oh, my God. Incredible movie.

That's my... Incredible. That's got my heart to this day. And I love Friday. That's a big one. I love McKay's work. One of my favorite movies is the Other Guys.

Oh, yeah.

I think that gets slept on. I totally agree. That's my favorite movie. It is. Even though you make some great ones.

That is a stupid fun movie.

It's so much in that movie that's so deeply hilarious. Obviously, SNL.

Do you watch SNL?

Yeah, big time. You do? I got homies that's been on there and just I love what Mike did on there, the State Farm bit.

Wait, let's watch that. Wait, Tell me again. Explain again the State Farm bit.

So Mike is... You want me to interrupt? Yeah, you set it up. Set up the clip. So Mike is Jake from State Farm, and it just goes dark. From there, it becomes like a David Lynch movie. Oh, yeah.

Jake from State Farm. Okay.

He just totally replaces it. He becomes this man's worst nightmare. He replaces him.

I can see why you would like this. He's teaching his kid how to play.

He's got his hand on the small of his wife's back.

Oh, he just gave him a look. Yeah. Okay, so you watch Skech to get- I do. Okay. Yeah, I love it.

That's why I'm so excited to be here. I mean, obviously, that enjoy from I'm not a Pixar, you know what I'm saying? But all of the comedy stuff, I'm like, I think it's the highest level of what we do. So any of you all that can kill it on multiple levels in multiple ways, you know what I mean? Live, scripty, or improv, it's like... But you wouldn't know that from my work.

No, I feel it. I'm definitely in there. Yeah, I get it. I know you're beyond busy. I It means a lot that you came. Thank you so much for coming. Thanks for having me. It was such a pleasure. So cool. Thank you to your incredible team of people, too, who made it happen. So thanks, Ryan. It means a lot. Thank you. Thanks so much for coming. Thank you so much, Ryan. That was awesome. I learned so much about you and about films and your love of them. So thanks for joining me today. For this Polar Plunge, as we finish, I asked Ryan what posters were hanging on his wall, and I thought it was only fair to share what was hanging on my wall when I was growing up. So you should know that I had a poster of the band Whitesnake. Okay, that's number one. Number two, I think I must have had a movie poster. It was probably something like Lily Tomlin and Bett Midler and Big Business or something like that. I don't remember. I probably had an '80s motivational poster, like a cat hanging on a branch, saying, Hang in there.

When I was really young, I used to look at a magazine called Teen Beat, and I would rip out posters of Sean Cassidy and put them on my wall and put lip bomb on my lips and then kiss the picture. I don't know. Just felt like you guys needed to know that. Okay, Ryan, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for listening. Bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weis-Burman, and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paperkite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya MacMullen, and Elea Zanaris. For Paperkite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovelle, and Jenna Weis-Burman. Original music by Amy Miles. All I ever wanted was a really good hang.