Transcript of Claire Danes

Hi, everyone. Amy here. I'm recording this the day before our new episode with the great Claire Daines comes out, and it's an episode we recorded a few weeks ago. And since then, so much has been happening in our country, and honestly, it felt strange not to address it. The intention of Good Hang has always been to bring levity and joy and laughs in these tough times, and we're going to keep doing that. But before we start this episode, I just want to send much love to the best people in the world, also known as Minnesotans. What we are all witnessing is terrifying and enraging and illegal, but we are also seeing neighbors helping neighbors. And if you want to help, there is a directory of local organizations and mutual aid groups that you can check out at standwithminnesota. Com. Minnesota, you're in our hearts. Okay, on with the show. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. Very excited about our guest today. It is the incredible Claire Daines. I cannot wait to talk to Claire today. She is such a pro. She's so good at so many things, and I know she's going to be a good hang, and we are going to get into it today.

We are going to talk about her big brain. We are going to talk about the lasting effect of my so-called life and how people still love it, even to this day. We're going to talk about her stint on law and order and what that was like. We're going to hear about how she in an elevator when she was a New York kid. So much to talk about before we do. We always like to speak to somebody who knows our guest, who has a question for me to ask our guest, and we talk well behind their back. We have a great one today, the incredible Mandi Patinkin. Mandi, actor, singer, activist, now podcaster. You can check out his podcast, Don't Listen to Us, out now with his wonderful wife, Katherine, and his son, Gideon, and Mandi. Hi. Can you hear me? This episode of Good Hang is presented by Nespresso. For those who never compromise on their morning rituals, especially their coffee ritual, Nespresso's new Virtuo Up makes your first cup irresistible. With a three-second start, easy open lever, and dedicated coffee creations mode button, it's even easier to brew bold coffee over ice or It's your coffee, your way.

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Hi, Amy. Hi, Mandy. Don't look, Amy. I'm eating something again.

Oh, yummy. What are you eating?

Murray's tuna. Perfect. And vegetarian chopped liver on Ezequiel Cinnamon Raisin toast.

Wow, that's a lot of flavors.

Well, I love the Cinnamon Raisin, and I eat that because my trainer tells me not to eat this other bread. This is the one he wants me to eat, and I'm feeling good, and so I do what he says.

You're a podcaster now.

Yes, I'm a podcaster. Do you only talk to podcasters?

Is that what you- I can't stand talking to someone who doesn't have a podcast.

Trust me, Amy, I know.

When you see someone, you're like, What are you doing with your life?

It's unconscionable to even think of doing that. It's horrible. Even hearing you say it upsets me. That's not an option.

You do a show with Don't Listen to Us with Katherine, your wife, and your son Gideon. Yes. Congratulations on that.

They don't listen to me. The title is always He's in operation.

How has it been? What have you been learning about yourself in the process of making it?

It's great, Amy. It's just great being with your family 24/7, never a break. What more could you ask? Be at home, work with them, Just like my son, just can't get enough of his parents. It's just a total joy 24/7. It's just like being in paradise.

Before we get to Claire, just one more time, because I know Gideon will want me to get the logline. How would you describe the podcast?

Oh, just the podcast. To describe the podcast is just a podcast. It's indescribable. It's just an extraordinary podcast. It has my wife, who I love, I've been with her for 47 years. If I can stay with her for 47 years, you can tune in and stay with her for 47 minutes. That's a good line. My glorious son, Gideon, it's all his. Then the one mistake is having me at the table as well.

I am such a humongous fan of your work, Mandi. It meant so much to me that I was talking to you today. We're talking today to Claire Daines, who I know you absolutely love.

I adore her. If I had a daughter, it would be Claire.

Can you tell me where you two first met?

We first met in the rehearsal room in Winston Salem, North Carolina. I believe that's where we met. I think that's where we were, where we had the first read through of Homeland. I think that was the name of the town where we shot the first three seasons. Pretty sure it was Winston Salem, but I could be wrong. I'm at that age. I don't just look at it. It's the same thing inside my brain. It's just this wiry, gray, white mess up there. I'm pretty sure. I know it was North Carolina. Charlotte. No, it was Charlotte, North Carolina.

That's interesting. You met in rehearsal for the first time, and obviously, I'm familiar with each other's work. What was your first impression of her?

Well, I knew she was of the highest pedigree, and so I just was thrilled to be with her. I knew that I wanted more than anything for her, both as Mandy and the character saw, I wanted her to feel safe with me, and I wanted her to feel protected by me, and I wanted her to trust me. And I knew that was a tall order. But we sat down with our director to just have our first read through, and she finished the first scene, and she said something that I never forgotten. I just left. She said, Well, that was some of the worst smacting I've ever done. And I never heard that word smacting. And I loved it. And I never heard her say it again because I think she's brilliant. I even thought she was brilliant when she thought she was smacting. And so she's as good as they come. In the arena, she's a thoroughbred, which leads me to my second thought that I had to offer you. Would you like that or do you want to run this?

No, I don't think with you and I that I'm ever going to run anything. I think, Mandy, whenever you're going to be running it.

I can shut up.

I know. I heard that you wrote down a bunch of for her, which I love because I, too, have so many questions for her. How many you have on that page?

I have. I wrote down 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.

Okay, great.

No, no, 8.

Perfect. I understand why- You can buy these questions, probably. Just go to your website.

Everything I have is for sale.

But I understand why you have all these questions for her, because she is, to your point, thoroughbred is a perfect word. So incredibly gifted. And also your story tells me that she also does not take herself too seriously. It's that combination that's incredible to be around.

She was a kid actor. And the thing is, as you've known from working with kids, the magic of them, it's literally magic. They sit there, they play, they play with the other kids, and then the director goes action, and they're there with a believability that if you worked at till the day you die, you would never get to be that good the way these kids are. She's one of the rare ones that took it into adulthood. She has that. She just believes. She just believes in a way that is, I'm transfixed. I had to do the least work in my life because all I would do is just sit and listen to her.

It can really feel the love between you two. Let's get to those eight or nine questions.

You got it. The next one that I wrote down- Wait, what was the first one again? Oh, God. I didn't know it was going to be a challenge, the first one. I have no idea what the first one was. What did I say?

Okay, forget it.

Look at me, will you, Amy? I'm so sorry.

You start in the middle.

Don't even ask me my name anymore. Just please have a little... In Yiddish, it's called Rachmonis. Have some Rachmonis for what you're dealing with here. Regarding her children, I'm very curious because she's married to an exceptional young man, young in my book, and young in everybody's book. I would like to know who is better in the family at setting boundaries for the children. Is it Claire or Hugh?

Hugh or Claire, her great actor husband, Hugh Dancy.

Now, I would like you to ask her something that only she would know. What is Mandy's father's Favorite Chewing Gum?

That question seems like what you have to answer to get into an exclusive private club.

You are right on the money. How did she commemorate the answer to that gift to me, which was one of the great gifts that I've ever been given?

Wow.

Oh, here's a good one. How often does she feel she pees she needs to pee before every take or every scene.

Love that.

It's not a downside. It gives everyone a chance to breathe. We all know that there's a rest period coming up every day. Okay, that was it.

Okay, these are great. These are great questions. They all speak to what I'm learning about her. I've known Claire over the years through friends and loved my time spending spending time with her. But what I've learned about her is she's a really considerate person. She's a very considerate person. She really considers other people. I think it's what makes her a good actress and human in the world.

One of the great gifts of a television series, in my humble opinion, is that you get to be there for a long time and you really get to know each other, and you get to know each other's strengths and also each other's fragilities. And she learned mine. I wear them on my sleeve, but she learned them quickly, and she just took care of me. She knew how to take care of me when I needed holding and she knew how to leave me alone when I needed to leave me A long time.

Beautiful. I know she's going to be so excited that we talked. I don't know if she knows. This might be a surprise to her.

I didn't tell her. I saw her recently at a political event for Mom Dani, which I was thrilled that she was there. But I did mention I hadn't known about this at that point.

Oh, that's great. I think she's going to be so happy that we talked.

She has no idea from me.

Please take my phone number.

I will. Do you have it?

I'm going to take your phone number and I'm going to call you for advice on basically on most things in life.

And you're welcome. And you're just the dumbest fucking person on the planet.

Thanks, Mandy. Take care. Bye.

Have fun. Bye-bye.

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You do talk about this being a number eight business a lot.

The enneagram? Wait, you're pretending you don't know what the enneagram is?

I know now because of you.

Do you know what your number is?

I did it last night. Yes.

Don't tell me what it is. I want to guess.

I, too. You're an eight? I'm an eight. I'm an eight. I screamed.

Oh, my God.

I yelled out loud.

I'm freaking out. Yes. Claire Daines just walked in with a balloon. By the way, thank you. These are beautiful. Yeah, you're welcome. A beautiful eight balloon. I'm going to bring it into frame. Look at that. A gorgeous eight balloon in reference to the fact that we are the same enneagram number.

I didn't know that when I bought the balloon. I just knew that you were an eight girl because you do talk about it pretty consistently.

This is an intervention and everyone's like, And now you've got the balloon, and now shut up about it.

It's an eight intervention. Oh, my gosh. Thank you. You're so welcome. But I was so excited that I got to be your twin eight sister.

Listen, if you're going to start with any of your grand, we're going to go because I'm I'm very pleased that you're an Enneagram eight.

Okay.

That makes perfect sense to me.

Does it? I'm very new to this business. When did you learn about the- Did you read the descriptions of it and feel like it was you? Sure. But I also worry that I might just be a little impressionable and absorb and accept and make it work.

Interesting.

Well, that- That's not very 8-like, is it?

It's not. But perhaps you've got a wing.

You can get a wing on the side. I'm just learning about it. I don't know what my I'd love to see what your pie chart looked like.

Okay. What were your big... I wish you had told me you were taking the test because I would have sent a text that said, send me your pie chart, send me your...

Okay, I'm sure I can find it again. What's your sign?

Virgo.

Okay. What are you? I'm Aries Virgo Rising.

Oh, my God. Claire, run all of the things. Run all the things, do all the things, be in charge of all of the things. Do you find yourself to be like, I mean, we know each other, but we don't know know each other. I've had the pleasure of being around you a lot, and a humongous fan of your work, of course. No, right back. Thank you. We were very excited that you said yes today. Do you think you're an organized person? Are you an organized?

I've gotten much more organized over time. But I do love the container store. I love the container store.

So much. I love the container. A good container will change your life. Jenna, why are you laughing, Jenna? Why are you laughing so hard? What I love about… I love the idea of figuring out what do things mean to you in your life.

Yes, because it's a paradox. They don't mean anything, and they mean a lot. They can be really valuable. Valuable tools, and I think they do carry energy. I really do believe that. They can transport you. They can be little tiny time machines. Yes.

But okay, of course you're an organizer. Of course, you're Virgo. Of course, you're Aries. Of course, you're an eight. Claire Daines is here. I mean, Claire, if I did not love you already. I feel like the theme of today is I've always felt like you and your work were ahead of its That's very nice.

That's very, very nice.

You've always brought me as an artist into worlds that I didn't know I was ready for. You're an intellectually curious person who's interested in interesting things, and therefore, you're drawn to those things, almost like the cartoon character when the pie is on the windowsill. I feel that with you. You're drawn to interesting things.

I am. That's true. Thank you for saying that. That's actually very, very touching and meaningful that you say that, really.

Well, I can sense it from the choices you you made as an artist. It is like my so-called life and homeland and Temple Grandin and The Beast and Me, all these projects and the way you're leading us into some new territory always, it feels like a new territory for you, too, which is very exciting. Of course, you're an Enneagram 8. You're a challenger. You're incredible. But I'm sorry that we're the best, but we are, and I'm sorry to all the other numbers. But it I just want to say this as we get this thing started, finally, which is you have the ability as an actor to stay in your body and be in your brain. Those are two very hard things to do. Oh my gosh.

This is so nice.

Claire, you're so smart.

This is so nice. This is so nice.

But it's hard to balance those two things, body and brain. That's why I'm obsessed with the fact that you love to dance.

I do love to dance. I love to dance. Me too.

For me, it me out of my brain.

Out of my brain. Yeah. Jinks. Yes. I don't dance as much as I... I don't dance enough anymore. I had a good wiggle the other night all by myself in my bathroom. I really needed it.

That's where I've seen you probably the most is on the dance floor.

Yeah. Well, our friend Rachita is a pretty great dancer.

She's had some parties and we've danced in our pajamas together. I feel like there's been some awards shows where we've been on the floor, where dancing regulates. What does it do for you? What does it do for your body?

Oh, God, it's so funny. Well, because it's my son's birthday today. My eldest son, he's turned 13, and it's like a superpower I have. I just like a little tiny wiggle in public. He will cross the street. It's just... But yes, I can mortify him within a millisecond.

Even worse is you stop and go, I'm a good dancer. People I don't think I'm a good dancer, and they're like, Mom, please. Mom, everyone's watching your dance.

But what does it do for me? Well, I mean, the best is when you enter that flow state, when you When there's no thought and you're just totally synchronized with whatever sound is coming through your ears. I love watching toddlers dance. When they jump, they do that thing. They do the bouncing thing. That's so true. We all do it. Shay, my baby, she's very in her head and dreamy, and sometimes she'll do this dance. I'm like, That's fabulous. Anyway, how old is she? She's two and a half.

Okay, I heard something that's amazing, which is that kids from three to 4, 3 to 5, consider them on mushrooms, hallucogenic mushrooms, because they're like, The floor is lava, and I'm feeling the music, and they're like, Why do we die? They're like, Whoa, you are tripping. It's true. It's true.

She's really fun.

You're a real dancer.

Well, but never... Not a formally trained one. I had this amazing teacher here in the city, a woman named Ellen Robbins, and she was great. From the age of four on, I worked with her. I say that intentionally. It sounds ridiculous because I was a tiny human, but she really took every kid very seriously. Over the course of the year, you would work towards choreographing your own piece, and you would choose the theme and the music. I was a moth to flame one year. Yes, I was. There was a lot of that.

Closing up and opening again. Finding your light. Yes. Little Claire in dance class at four. You are a New York kid. I'm really always interested in kids that grew up in New York. What Soho? What was your version of Little Kid in New York?

It was funky. Yeah. A little rough. I was born in '79. My parents were artists. They moved to the Bowery in the late '60s. My dad's mom, Claire, am I named after, died when he was a kid. Then I guess he had this money, finally. They bought a loft building with another couple that they still own on Crosby Street, where I was growing up. We had a swing, we had a trapeze, I would roller skate.

It's how we picture it was like a roller ring.

It was like a roller ring. I had some shame about it, too. I had cousins who lived in the suburbs, and all I wanted was to be in a cul-de-sac and have a basement and carpet on the floor.

We forget that when we're little. We don't want to be different and interesting. We I don't want to be exactly the same.

But it was also very cool. Basquiat lived in our building. What? Yes. Did you meet him? I remember him. I remember Wow. Being really little. He was very sweet. He was very- Charming? Charming and tender. That's what I remember about him in the elevator.

Wow, that's amazing.

Keith Haring was just Yeah, but it was also violent, and the Mafia still existed. We were on Crosby and Prince, so just on the other side of Lafayette, that was the different world and felt quite active.

Did you become a vigilant? Are you a vigilant person or a vigilant kid because of- On the street? No, in life. Was there some hypervigilance that was created because of that? Yes.

Because of New York. Also, I have very funky- Groovy artist parents. Totally. There was a rigidity that developed. Yes. Speaking my language. A hyper-observance, yes, for sure.

Speaking of vigilance and hyper-observance, you were on Law and Order as a young person. I was. How old were you?

I was 12.

Can you tell me about being on Law and Order?

Sure. I played a teen. Yeah, it was amazing. It was amazing. I played a teenage murderer. My mom was a prostitute, high-end, and her pimp was grooming me to basically do the same thing, but he was presenting himself as a modeling agent. I took these photos of me. Typical law and order, My mom found out about it and she intercepted and I was furious. I took the scissors from the dark room and stabbed him. I think that's what it was.

God, I would have killed to have been… That was what I wanted to do so about it. Really? Law and order? Yeah, on Law and order.

I then dated a boy, another kid actor. We met an audition who also had been a teen murderer on Law and order. That was our cute story. Now, Hugh is on Law and Order. I know. Which is wild. I know. We have so much good gear, like swag, Law and Order swag. We have a giant button that goes, that the kids really, really like, and we do have to hide sometimes.

That show is... First of all, it just employed so many actors. It still does.

It's a total institution. I was also very sure the day after it air, there was a screening party. It was going to be a problem for me to ride the subway because I was going to be so famous. It was fine. Everybody was fine. No, it was pretty comfortable still for me.

Now, you brought up my so-called life. How old were you when you auditioned for that?

I was 13 when I did the pilot. Then it didn't get picked up. Then I'd gone to public school my whole life, but then had made money from these acting jobs and could afford to send myself to private school, so I went to Dalton. But yeah, then at the very start of my freshman year, we got this call saying, Oh, no, they are going to pick it up. I was only physically there for a semester, and then we were off to LA. Wow. And was tutored from that point on.

Now, I know you've talked ad nauseam about the That experience you had making that show, and it is still so zeitgeisty, that show.

It's really... It was a very special thing.

When you were making it, it felt like a special sparkly thing?

Yeah, I remember I remember reading the pilot, I guess before the audition and just having a very profound experience. It was really powerful to have some woman, some writer person, so perfectly articulate my internal life.

That was Wendy Holtzman who you mentioned.

Yeah, it was Wendy Holtzman who's still a dear, dear friend and just wildly inspired, hilarious, loving person.

People should know it wrote Wicked. Wicked? Yes. Just this little indie called Wicked. Yeah.

Which is basically about teenage girls and their intimacies and their Yeah, she's divine.

And Winnie was the creator of the show.

Yes, she was the creator of the show. We were both working so hard. We barely saw each other, but we were in this very deep relationship in our imaginations.

Did you chemistry Reid with Jared Leto for- No, no, no. He just got hired, and then you guys had to find the chemistry there.

He was in the Noxema commercial. That was very exciting. Yeah. He was so hot. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. He was ridiculous.

He was upsetting me. He was kidding me. He was upsetting. You know, Jordan Catalano has become- It's also one of those names.

It's always the full name. Yeah. There was also a character in the show called Tino that you never saw. Anyway, there were so many- But do you have a theory?

Because you know now with perspective, what do you think resonates It's still with Angela's?

Well, it's still radical.

Yes, it is ahead of its time.

I think it remains ahead of this time. Why? It shouldn't have been made. It almost wasn't made many times, and it just wills itself into existence. I don't know. It's not very often that we spend that much time, intimate time, with a teenage girl. Not really. When we're seeing the world from inside of her and really through her vantage point, and she's so earnestly wrestling with big stuff. It's just so well balanced and it's so of her. There are some zingers. There's some really well-crafted lines.

I was rewatching that moment, the beautiful moment that is played over and over again on TikTok every day of my life because it's on my FYP. But of when Jordan comes over to Angela and says, Can we go somewhere? And you say, Sure. And you walk off with him, and he takes your hand in front of everybody. That feeling of being chosen publicly is a big Major. Major deal for a young woman and young man. But why the show, I think, separates itself from others is also editorially, we know what all the other characters are feeling in that moment. We cut to everyone else's feeling about not being chosen or the wrong person being chosen. Everyone's feeling like we're feeling everybody's pain, psychic pain or joy in that moment. It's so That's a very well-stated, well-analyzed scene.

I've watched it way too many times. I forgot about that. I feel wildly fortunate that that was my entry point.

Look at you.

Du siehst echt Hammer aus.

I mean, the look is iconic.

Kein Wunder, dass die Boys am Start sind.

Und dieser glow. Hast du eine neue Beauty-Routine? Egal. Denk einfach dran.

Du bist ne Queen. Du bist schlau, du bist cute, du weißt, was du willst. Period. Same, girl.

Okay, lass reingehen.

Ich glaub, da sitzt unser Double Date schon.

Du liebst deine Bestie auch? Dann nehm sie mit auf ein Double Date. Das Feature for Friends. Nur bei Tinder.

Sag mal, hast du bei der Steuer auch diesen Schul-Flashback?

Einfach irgendwas raten und dann hoffen, dass es stimmt? Boah, nee, gar nicht.

Wieso Steuer ist so mein safe space? Du meinst, damit ist alles sicher? Ja, genau.

Wieso Steuer ist so die Steuer-App, die dich einfach versteht.

Egal ob Studium, Job oder Umzug.

Stimmt, krass. Fühlt sich gar nicht wie Steuern an. Steuern erledigt? Safe. And you've worked with what I imagine, only imagine, are really some very interesting, complicated, maybe at times difficult people. At a young age, I project on you that you have to figure out how to be self-possessed and be your own artist and your own... Protect yourself and also be among these really complicated adults. Do you feel like there was some inner Claire thing that helped you navigate all that early stuff?

I feel like kids are doing that all the time anyway.

Not every kid. Okay. You know, I think this is...

I don't know. Also, I remember people, I never felt like a kid. Now that I am a parent and I have actual children, I'm like, yeah, no, I for sure was a kid. There's no way.

Do you think you're going to... I sometimes think I never felt like a kid either. When I was about eight or nine, I was like, I'm in charge here. I did. I was like, these people are... I just remember being like, No, I'm in charge.

My first memory, I don't know if it's real or not. Obviously, no idea, but was preverbal. I was an infant. I remember I was. It was by the windows in our loft on Crosby Street, overlooking Lafayette Street. I had been handed to some other adult that I didn't know very well. They didn't know how to hold a baby. I remember I remember having… I was like, Okay, this is one of those grownups who don't know how to do this. They're uncomfortable. There's nothing I can do about it. I'm just going to have to wait it out. Then I remember my second… That person was Lou Reid. Yeah, Lou Reed. Then my second memory was being on the Kitchen Island, and I was just about… I just was starting to have some language, but not quite enough. I was playing charades with my mom, and I wanted to get to the counter, like the other side of the kitchen. She was really frustrated, and I felt such empathy for both of us. I was like, This cannot continue. I really, really need to crack this language thing because I mean, poor us. This is too hard.

Amazing. Yeah. It was like that always. People would say, It's so remarkable that you can deliver performances at such a young age. I was like, What are you talking about? I feel like I've been here for... This has been an eternity. 11 years is so many years. It felt very rich. I was like, I've got enough material for four lifetimes.

It makes It makes total sense to me because when you're in Little Women and you're dying, I was like, She's been here before.

We had to reshoot that scene. I can't even. Just my side, because apparently, I got too excited about the death rattle because, of course, I read five stages of dying. I really studied whatever illness Beth had. Sure. I got a little carried away. You rattled a little too much. I told this story to Matthew recently. He calls me Death But Gillian Anderson, the director, lied to me. I only learned this last year, literally. Oh, bless. Then said that that coke had spilled on the negatives of the film and that we needed to reshoot. Oh, that's a nice thing to do. But it was really because she needed to calm the death rattle down a little bit. I got... Yes. That's a factoid.

By the time you were 20, you were already in 13 movies.

That's a I did not know that.

Okay. Went to school, went to Yale. What did you study there?

I thought I was going to be a psychology major, and then there ended up being a lot of lab work involved with that. That's not what I meant. Eventually, I think I would have been… I didn't complete my time, and I never had to declare a major. But if I had, I think I would have been an English major, which is what I I meant. I didn't want it to be… The science part was less interesting to me than the character studies.

Do you have a bit of a slidy doors fantasy that you would be a therapist in another life?

Well, my best friend in the whole wide world from the age of nine on is a therapist. Congrats. Thank you. I did pretty well.

Best friend of a therapist?

I chose well at nine. Actually, it's really fun. We do play Barbies together with my characters. If I'm starting a project, we'll think about it in those formal terms, and she'll diagnose her. Yeah, cool. It's actually very handy. Occasionally at lunch, it'll be, I see her shift from Ariel into therapy, and she'll ask. She'll say, Is it okay if I go into actual formal therapy mode with you now? You'll be like, A dream. Yes, please. A dream. I wanted to be an actor from the age of five onwards. Then People would tell me, most actors actually don't make that much money. It's a fairly insecure career choice. Which is true.

And continues to be.

I had a practical side. I thought, okay, all right, fine. I'm going to be a therapist, and I'm going to live in the suburbs. I was going to live next door to Ariel. We were going to share a pool, and we would have two slides in our respective yards that would go into the same pool. I would be a therapist and do acting workshops, yes, to nourish the soul. That was my plan for a good year. I made an actual announcement one night at the dinner table, and I said, Look, guys, who am I kidding? There is no plan B. I am an actor. Money or no money. This is my calling. My parents were like, , sure. I was so serious. It's ridiculous.

But I love that person. Who's that person because that person is making a declaration?

I really meant it. I took Saturday acting classes at Liesrasberg, which is in my neighborhood, and I pass almost every day, and it's a total trip. Anyway, so yes. But But actually, my favorite class was a graphic design class, my very favorite class. Then I thought, Oh, maybe if I weren't an actor, I would be that person, a graphic designer.

I can see all these things. What I love about your work is that it feels, and again, it just feels like when you're watching you work, that there's just real life that exists in your life. You have a real life. You're a real person, a same real person. I'm trying. Then when we're watching you play people, when they feel like real people, there's just a little bit... You just can't explain it. People have it or they don't, or they feel like they've actually existed on the Earth and had a real life and people that are in just a different sphere of, I don't know. There's something that feels like you have taken care of other parts of your life.

It was good for me to do that. I really needed a time out. I needed to not have so much responsibility. I I needed to fuck around a little bit and get stoned and play Mario Kart. That doesn't need to go away.

That was as important as the work I was doing in class, which was also really, really wonderful.

I also felt validated as a thinking person.

I feel like you've spoken about the wonderful things about perspective and getting older. What's the best thing about being the age you are?

That it's perfectly okay to have the same breakfast every morning, to exercise for 45 minutes to an hour.

How's your bone density?

I don't know, and I should know, and I don't lift enough weights.

Nobody ever does. We have to lift so many weights.

I like lifting my own body weight. I really like yoga these days, but it's not enough. Apparently, you have to lift actual iron.

And you run.

You're a big runner. I used to run more. The third pregnancy really put a dent in the running.

For people who don't know, you had a pregnancy a few years ago. Kind of a surprise. Out of the blue.

Did you burst into tears like, Oh, no, I have to be pregnant again? Yes, Totally. I called my OB/GYN in convulsive tears. Yes. No, it was a pure... It was all meltdown.

Oh, no. Because you had what I could A 12-year-old or a 10-year-old and a 6-year-old or something? Yes.

I mean, he must have been around 11, 12. They're five years apart, each kid. None of this was by design. But yeah, I didn't know it was physically possible. I was Actually, Rowan was very hard-earned. I had to do two rounds of IVF. It just was so unlikely. This is a funny story that I'm going to share about my best friend.

This is Ariel? This is Ariel. Okay, Ariel.

She gets name checked a lot in these things.

Well, she is your therapist.

She's other people's therapist, too. I would like her to be mine. I've just ruined her career. I'd like her to be mine. But, yeah, so We had this spa day scheduled, and I admitted to her, and I wasn't coping very well with the heat. I was like, I'm sorry, I'm such a pussy. I got to get out of here. Anyway, and so I wasn't going to say anything, and finally I admitted. I was like, I totally lost my mind last night and just decided that I was pregnant. I went down this crazy rabbit hole and finally looked up, What are the odds of naturally conceiving at 44 They're less than 1%. I was like, So that obviously is ridiculous. She said, Whoa, that's really weird because I had this dream last week. She said it was really vivid. I told people about it. I didn't say it was you, but I had this dream where I was pregnant and I looked down and I saw my distended belly and I said, Oh, wait, but this isn't This is a long torso. This is Claire's torso.

You have a gray torso.

Thank you. But yeah.

She was in...

She had this dream where she looked down and saw that she was pregnant, but she wasn't pregnant. She was in my pregnant body. Then I had two strong cocktails when we had dinner. Then first thing in the morning, hit the CVS, and it was just like, bold cap blocks. It was like, Yeah. Pregnant. I burst into tears. Because for me, the thing would just be like, you know what you know now.

You know what you're in for.

Well, that was deeply humbling because I realized, oh, I am not authoring this thing. Yeah. Okay. This is the illusion that I am driving this thing. Yes.

You had to surrender to it. I really did.

Then this beautiful girl emerged, and she's the best, and none of it was up to me, and I'm just delighted. But she was disruptive. We had to move. It was a thing. It was a lot of work.

It's still a lot of work. It's interesting. Her origin story will be, I bet, will just naturally be like, You really wanted to be here.

She did, and she's psyched. She is all about it. She's having a great time unequivocally into this living business. Yeah.

That's the thing I think about the best and worst thing about late '40s, for me, mid '50s, is you know the deal. It's like, Okay, that's going to be this. Okay, this one's going to hurt. There's still stuff to discover, certainly, but there is a sense of- It's amazing to have so much of your life, like Yeah.

It was established. It realized and set.

Well, you've experienced. It's basically you've come through things and you've made it. You made it through something. Yeah.

There's a lot of, I don't know, power in that and joy in that. It's also sad because I'm really I'm really, really aware of time now.

Me too. It's really the thing I crave. I crave time as a thief. It's actually, and I'm sure you're this way, too, more and more with work or with any project, it's the thing I care about the most. It makes me think about your work on Homeland, which was a 10-year commitment. A lot of time and hard work.

Yeah, it was. Hard work. We were all over the planet. We were in so many different countries, and I had two kids, and I was fighting terrorists while deeply pregnant. I know. It was weird.

Did you have a thing you liked to do on that show when you saw on the call, she were like, Oh, today I get to do this? Because it was like, today... Maybe it was like, Today I get to...

What was cool, that after a while, a few seasons in, people knew It was almost like an anthology series. We would re-imagine ourselves every year. But a new set of actors, I'd walk into a room and they would get quiet and be chasened. I had this power. That's cool. That I had earned over seasons. That was pretty fun. I bet. Never have I ever had that experience in my life, nor will I ever again, even in a fictional realm. But that was amazing to have that swagger.

What was hard to shoot? Just balancing life, I'm sure, and traveling all over because it shot everywhere. It shot all over.

Especially when Brody died. Oh, God. That's a secret. Spoiler alert.

Claire.

It was also really rough, just really graphic. They really went there. Come on.

Intense.

It was so intense. But he dies on a crane. I know. But then the crane, when we were filming, broke. Oh, no. We were really hung up by that. I don't know. It was like landing in a… Because that was in… Where did we shoot that? That was in Morocco. But yeah, the first three seasons, we were mostly in Charlotte, North Carolina, which was standing in for DC. Then we would make these jags. We would shoot a month in Israel or Morocco or something. But then when we had to really redefine the show in a more macro way, We then became this traveling enterprise. We were shooting in Cape Town for half a year, which was standing in for Palestine and Afghanistan. The next year, there was a year in Berlin, then a year in New York, which, yeah, that was actually very strange to be home and weirdly stressful because people expected me to go to dinner. My friends were like, You're here. Let's hang out. I was like, I am working so hard.

I have to get tied up and beat up tomorrow.

Then I have to tie someone else up. I actually can't do this and live my life. There was something nice about being on location and just being allowed to give myself entirely to it because I didn't have any energy to spare. That was actually weird. That was the weird, almost the hardest season because I kept like... There was this illusion that I was living my life and I couldn't. Then where were we? Then we were... I don't even... Then it was a full year in Morocco. Wow.

What's Morocco like?

Never been. Pretty great. I was nervous about spending so much time there, and I grew to really love it. Sairas went to school in all these places, too. He still can't eat couscous because he ate it at every meal every day for six months at this school.

That must be very cool for him to have his memories of traveling around. Yeah, I wonder what he can consciously recall.

I think that he was five or six. So maybe quite a bit. So six that, he could. Yeah. His first school that he went to was in Berlin, and he was around three. And he started to have temper tantrums, like half in German, and he would scream, Nein, nein. Then you'd be like, whoa. Suddenly this is a lot scarier in this language. And he would, around that time, when we would come home and we'd be at the playground at Washington Square Park, he would totdle over to other tiny people and say, Hi, my name is Silas. I speak English. Because it was not a given that another person would do.

Does he speak another language? Nine. If I could put a chip in my brain and be able to speak in a different language.

Oh, same. Bat and fly. Yeah, fly. I mean? Yeah. But the language almost feels like it has the same thrill level to speak a different language.

You know what I love about speaking other languages is you have to do a funny... You have to move your body and your face in a version that feels insulting. It It feels stereotypical, but you have to to get the language right. Well, there is that... Yes, you have to... Or if you're Italian, you have to gesticulate. There's all these different things. There's a reason why people move the way they do, getting back to movement. Yes.

I love learning dialects for this reason. Look, I think humans are humans, and it is mostly a universally shared experience, whatever that is. But it's also true that there are real differences, and we do see the world through these slightly different these different filters, and it does shape us and inform us, and that is also amazing.

I'm really into those kinds of differences, again, without appropriating them or getting them wrong. But because we are in a monoculture now, everything is the same now. So now it's like, I'm like, whoa, the way you express this thing or the way you... Like, language still feels sometimes like a way of getting into some a new little world. I delight in the ways that we're not the same anymore because everything is the same. Every fucking store is in the same city.

It's also sad that we're not... I mean, that is what we do, you and I, do. I think a lot of different- I don't do. Well, you do. You totally do. You imagine yourself as being a different person.

True, but dialects are their own real. I mean, that's a real acting. No, look. Claire.

I can't just rift, though. I'm this U U Uy person. If I have a good coach, I'm all about it.

Do you like to improvise when you act?

I haven't had that many opportunities to. Oh, interesting.

I guess in more dramatic stuff, it's hard to do, right?

They don't let you. They don't let you.

They're very strict about it. Because they're on the crane. They're like, he's up on the crane, you can't. You're like, just give me... I just want to rift.

Crane work is pretty strict. But no, I don't know. I would be really intimidated by that, actually. That seems scary.

I feel like you'd be so good.

That seems scary. I did one episode of Portlandia, and they did give me pages, and then they disappeared. They were like, Don't look at those. Yeah. I was like, But wait, I learned them. They were like, Oh, sorry. I should have known that. They were like, You know We're just going to do it as we want to do it in the moment. I wanted to vomit.

I have no... I worked at SNL and stuff where I realized, Oh, preparation is this thing that people do. No. It's this thing that when people bring it to the process and someone says, and also, let's try this, it's hard to not feel like, wait, what are we doing? It is a learned skill to just that things aren't wrong if we are not doing what we prepare. Yes.

I'm ridiculous. I'll go to the writer and say, Is it okay if I put the comma here rather than there? They're like, Don't come to me with this bullshit. I'm sorry. I think actually because I started at such a young age, my socks are still up to my knees a little bit. There's still that little girl who's just wanting to do a good job. I don't know if that's because I was actually a little, like a literal, literal little girl, say that five times fast, when I began, or maybe that's just in me and would have been if I started at 30, but I don't know.

Yeah, you do such a good job.

Thank you.

You're so good at your job.

You are so good at your job. You are so good at your job. I love listening to your show. I listen to it a lot. Thanks.

I heard that you love podcasts.

I love podcasts. Me too. But you have one of the very best ones. Oh, my God. Thanks. It's It's really wonderful. Thanks, Claire. Really.

Speaking of wonderful, we do a thing on this podcast where we talk to someone who knows our guest. We talk to Mandi Patenkin. Mandi.

Mandi, who I saw the other night. I hadn't seen him for a long time. He said it.

He said you guys were celebrating Mom Donnie together.

Yes, we were celebrating Mom Donnie.

I mean, you could tell in the show, but I also loved knowing that outside of the show, the relationship you two had. It felt very paternal, very There was a lot of love there?

I love him madly, truly, deeply. Also, he's just an amazing person to act with. How come? Okay. He's very musical. But this was a weird thing. In the first read through, we barely met each other, and it just the music worked. My cadence and his cadence were in really good with each other. Nobody can take credit for that. That was just really good fortune. I played this manic person. I'm almost getting into it now that you're saying I'm thinking about it. She's stone-skipping on the water. He has this low pulse rate as Saul and is so steady and is her ballast and this counterpoint.

Well, he He calls you a thoroughbred.

Oh, well, thanks. He's just a really, really, really good performer. I don't quite know how he does what he does, but it was also always fun to see him at the gym, the hotel gym or whatever weird apartment complex we were living in. Singing his Yiddish songs, prepping for his tour, like on a Stairmaster. Right. It's just...

Also, I just love a big man. Yes.

I do. I love a big man.

Sometimes I love feeling small. Like in relationship, do you know the idea of big and small? No. Which is basically like, some days you want to feel big and some days you want to feel small. Some days you want to be like, I'm going to get us to the airport. I'm in charge of whatever. I'm big today. Other times you're like, I want to be small today. It's being taken care of, but also can just feel physical. Sometimes when you're at, I don't know, you're bossing it up all day at work, you want to come home and feel small and vice versa, and being able to have someone do that with you.

It's CEOs who go to the doms.

Exactly. It's a sub-dom thing. Those are all Mandy's questions. No, I'm just kidding. So, Mandy wants to know, are you? No. Okay, so we had 10 questions for us. That's a lot. We're not going to. We can't get to them.

That's a lot of questions. This is, Mandy had 10 questions?

Yeah, he really overprepared, which was very nice. But also he couldn't get on the Zoom, and he was eating when he was on the Zoom, too. So it was mixed messages. But he was so- He was eating the latas that he had made. He was eating a delicious- The mayor to- cinnamon raisin bagel, I believe, with some other stuff on it. It looked delicious.

He likes peanut butter on an apple, too.

Oh, that's a great snack. That's a great sad snack. Okay, so you had a couple of questions. Who is better at setting boundaries for the kids? You or Hugh?

Oh, goes back and forth.

Okay, that's good.

So, Cyrus wants to wear shorts. He's like a gaffer all the time.

There's a whole thing. You're not on TikTok, I'm sure. No, No. Congratulations. But there's a whole thing about middle school kids always wearing shorts.

It makes me so upset. Let it go.

I'm here to tell you, my boys are older. Let them freeze their bunteroonies off. Don't say one thing, Don't mention a coat. I've talked to...

Okay.

Don't mention a coat.

I've said, 50 or below, you have to wear shorts. You is more team Zyris than a baby.

Wait, 50 or below, you have to wear pants. Yeah, sorry.

Pants. Sorry.

Yes, thank you.

Now, he was being more permissive, and that number went down to 40.

Yeah. There's literally a whole scientific thing about middle school kids waiting for the bus. Scientific, I mean, it's on TikTok. About kids waiting for the bus with shorts. Boys love shorts in middle school. It's a whole thing.

Okay, whatever.

They run hot, and they're not going to get a cold from the cold. You know that. Just let them do it. They will grow out of it, I promise. Then they'll become obsessed with sweats and sleeping and being warm, and they'll always be freezing.

Yeah. Okay. All right.

It's just a warm period.

I got that. My family thanks you. But I actually think that Hugh and I are pretty... We're very lucky. We're well-matched humans. I think our parenting styles are pretty level and equal as well. I love that. It's good.

You guys are a really, really special couple.

Thank you. He's a swell dude.

Yeah, you can tell. He's a good guy. You can tell you have a lot of love and a lot of like for each other. Both those things are important.

We do. And so many children now. Yeah, so many.

You're on number. Okay, Mandi's next question. Now, Mandi's referring to himself in the third person. Sure. What is Mandi's father's favorite chewing gum?

It's the black licorice. I embroidered something for him.

That's what he was asking. How did you commemorate?

Because he would chew it as Saul. I think he mentioned at one point But I'm forgetting the name of the brand.

Did it come in a tin?

Blackjack.

Blackjack. Blackjack was the gum.

Was the gum. Okay.

You embroidered something.

I went hard on the embroidery for a while.

Let's talk about this embroidery. You embroidered. Do you... I don't really- There was a point when I embroidered everything around me.

I embroidered an umbrella. That was weird. My mom taught me. It started because in my 30s, I was away from my friends, and everybody was having babies, and I was really missing them. I embroidered onesies for my friend's babies. I embroidered their name and then an image that related to the name somehow. But it was really more about just communing with them.

Embroidery by hand? Yes.

Okay. We started with the onesies, and then it went haywire. It's a great onset activity, and I did it a lot more before I had children. I also found the contrast, amazing and enjoyable, that I would be fighting terraces, Carrie, and then I would go back to my seat and embroider.

Knitting or crocheting, do you do that?

I went on a knitting jag, too. Then That didn't take. I embroider onesies for, of course, all of my kids, and I have one for Shay, this third child. She doesn't wear onesies anymore. I've missed that chance.

It's okay.

I'm confessing. I'm actually confessing to you. It's by my bed. What are we supposed to do? Have done. Anyway.

You've done it all. Okay. No more. You got to start giving us. I don't know. That's what I tell every woman. Then I I want to talk about The Beast in Me because I love the fact that you are producing on this, and I want to know what that experience has been like producing.

I loved it. It was just really fun to hire people who I admired and trusted.

Like you said, you've been producing without credit for a long time, and you've been producing and seeing... You've been on sets for a long time, and you're realizing, Oh, I want to I want to bring my system here.

Yeah. That first week, I was just had a blast. I was really like, I like everybody here. I realized, all right, because I asked them to the dinner party, right? Yeah. It was so nice to, I don't know, not be surprised by the home that suddenly I was discovering on the first day of filming. I got to have a say on what that house would actually be. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. It was just a lot of Zoom calls. That's okay. But they were conversations I wanted to have and be a part of. On this next gig, I'm more of an actor for hire.

You're playing a neurosurgeon, and can we talk about the pit?

Sure.

Because you love it.

I do love it. What do you love about it? Well, Noah Wiley. I mean, Noah Wiley. Okay.

Did you watch ER when it was on? No.

But I would think it was a little too little. It was on maybe while I was shooting My Soul, Cold Life. Is that right? I don't know. That makes sense. Maybe I'm getting that timing wrong. But yeah, I was aware of it, but I didn't watch it. But no, he feels so credible. I really think all those hours he put in as a TV doctor have accrued. Totally. He has a gravitational... Gravity now.

Yeah, he does this. It feels like he's doing his blocking without thinking.

I am so convinced. Totally. No, and I just think It also feels a little throwbacky. It's so nice to watch excellent TV.

Love. You've made excellent TV.

Thank you. But I enjoy watching excellent TV.

It's my favorite thing to watch. Tv are better than movies. Sorry, I'm sorry. Tv is better than movies. I love movies. I love movies, too. Movies are very special.

I'm a little worried about movies. I really am a little bit worried about movies.

Well, they got to get their shit together. I'm just kidding. I love movies. I love movies. I love it all. Is there anything that you watch? I know you are a big part, listen to podcast. Is there anything you watch just for brain check out fun?

Okay. I know you ask this sometimes. I had a prepared answer. You're the only person that's ever prepared.

I want you to know this. Of course, Claire.

But is it... Okay, Tim Robinson. Yes. So there's this one sketch from this show. Which one? Focus Group.

Incredible. You just got an O. You just got an O from both.

Let's watch it. We I watch this all the time in our family.

Now, do your kids watch it?

Well, all the kids are allowed to watch this. We tuck the little guys in, and then we have special mature viewing hour. It started with the Simpsons. The Simpson.

The Simpson is always the gateway.

Only murders in the building, OMIB, which is basically ScoobyDoo for grownups. It's great. It's Then, Hugh, English husband, introduced him to Monty Python stuff. He got really into that. But now we've been watching, mostly because of this focus group, his latest show, which is The Chair Company.

Yeah, which there was a not safe for work moment in that show.

The whole genius of the show is that it takes you very quickly to places that you are not prepared for. We're all cuddling in bed. Then there is this giant erect penis. He says, Close your eyes. Everybody, close your eyes.

Close your eyes.

Everybody, close your eyes. I'm going to close your eyes. Yeah, it was intense. We're still recovering. It was intense. But it was great. We do love that show.

I think that Claire, I understand why you would like this because number one, I think you are... I've known you to be a very fun, funny, and like, comedy. You love comedy. I do. Yeah. You have good taste. Thanks. There's a tiny bit of a disruptor in you that I imagine is fun to watch.

Yes, I think you're right. The other thing that we've been watching is the latest South Park. Oh, yeah. Which we talk about. What? What? They're just saying the thing.

Just a chicken in a hen house. No, it's a fox in a hen house.

I didn't get that right. That makes me feel a lot better. Chicken in a hen house. Thank you for that. Well, thank you. This was amazing. I This was so nice. This was really nice. This was so fun. This was a birthday present to me.

No one's ever brought me a balloon. No one's ever brought me a balloon. Thank you for bringing a balloon. You're welcome. And again, for people that are sick of me talking about the Antigram, I don't know what to say. But let me just read you this as we wrap up and see if any of these land These are things that annoy an Enneagram 8. Are you ready? Sure. People who talk just to talk.

That's very annoying. That is deeply annoying.

I have a podcast. But yes, people who talk just to talk. Fake people. I'm like, Oh, fiant. I'm like, I literally, if someone's like, I'm a piece of shit or whatever, I'm like, Okay, great. But fake? No way, babe. People who aren't on time.

I have to have some for that because I am not the- Same.

I was late today.

Yeah.

Jenna's always on time.

Most punctual person.

Then this one really scratches an itch for me. Others asserting power in a situation where they have none.

I went through a period in junior high where I became a vigilante, and I would confront the bullies.

Aids hate bullies.

Yeah, really. I went to the principal's office one time because I hit a bully. I lapped a bully.

That's exciting.

We talked through it, the bully and I. Actually, we made some progress. Then he was so deferential to me and he would open doors. I had I had to stop that because it was going on my record. But yes, I think that makes sense that there would be an eight- I have fantasies that I stand up to bullies and then everybody sees it.

That's my embarrassing fantasy that I stick up for people in public.

There was a bully in elementary school, and I admitted to my mother at one point that my self-soothing fantasy, there'd be a circle of people, and this boy and I were at the center of it, and I was just beating the shit out. I was like, Is that okay to have that fantasy? She was like, Your thoughts are your own. Enjoy them. I wanted a great answer. Which was a nice bit of mothering there. I wanted a nice bit of mothering there.

We've come full circle back to New York, back to the apartment.

It did help. It was nice. Yeah.

I could talk to you forever, Claire.

I could, too. Thank you. Thank you so much.

It was so fun. Thank you so much, Claire Daines. That was so fun. I could have talked to you forever. You're so interesting and smart and funny. So thanks so much for that time. And for the Polar Plunge today, I guess I just want to remind everybody how good Law and Order is, especially the first 10 seasons. Okay? Just go back and watch Find Claire as the young child maniac. And just go back. And here's a little tip. Whoever you recognize, they did it. So if it's a young actor just starting out, they're the murderer. Take that tip with you and go check out a little show called Law and Order. I can't get enough of it. It's these new things that I'm going to fill you in on when you take the time to listen to the Polar Plunge. So thanks so much for listening. And see you soon. Bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weis-Burman, and me, Amy Poler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paperkite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spalane, Kaya MacMullen, and Elea Zanaris.

For Paperkite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovelle, and Jenna Weis-Burman. Original music by Amy Miles. All I ever wanted to wanted was a really good hang.