Transcript of Halle Berry

My name is Halle Berry, and I feel still ghosted about being Conan O'Brien's friend.

Wait, how did I ghost you?

You ghosted me. When did I ghost you? You never called me.

Well, there are issues. My wife doesn't love it when I call you. Also in my sleep when I yell, Halle Berry. Repeatedly, she gets upset.

Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walking loose, climb the fence, books and pens.

I can tell that we are going to be friends. I can tell that we are going to be friends. Hey there. Welcome to Konan O'Brien Needs a friend. I am that Konan O'Brien, joined by Sonam Of Cessian. A little twist here, not Matt Gourley. Yeah, we got David Hopping sitting in. Good to see you, David. Great to see you. David is sitting in. This is very exciting because I don't know when this airs, but last night, Matt Gourley and his wife, Amanda, had a baby girl. Now they have two girls. They have their second child, and it's very exciting. We're very happy for them. It's crazy. Matt sent us a photo this morning of Amanda holding his new daughter, and just Amanda Luce. It enraged me. It enraged me, too. She looks like she's had a full hair and makeup, and she hasn't. She's just that beautiful. She is gorgeous. Gorgeous. Yeah.

It looks completely unfazed by it, and it made me angry.

Yeah. I was like, Good God. She looks beautiful. They did put false eyelashes on the daughter, which I thought was weird. And press on nails, those really long ones. She was really. Yeah. I thought that was a little much.

Yeah, the tan or two.

Yeah, and she's spray tan.

It's a beautiful...

Sorry to interject. It's a beautiful photo. I didn't I didn't think you needed to come in. I honestly didn't think you needed to interject, but go ahead. It's a beautiful photo.

Well, I just have to bring something up. It's a beautiful photo of this lovely little girl. We all have a text message, a chain going on with all of us. We're all saying, Oh, she looks great. She looks great. Then you wrote, That's the face Blay makes when he levels up in elder scrolls 5.

Oh, my God. No, you told the story incorrectly. I did? Yeah. There's a second shot of just the baby. Yes, that's what I'm saying. You didn't say that. Okay. I disagree with everything you do, and I want to go on record. Why is that an important detail, though? Because there was a picture of this beautiful baby with this beautiful smile. That's right. It looked gorgeous. I said to that, That's the face Blay makes when he levels up in Elderscrolls 5. Yeah, so I just- Cleared that up.

I just want to say you're right, but also I'm impressed you know what Elderscrolls 5.

Who did you ask? Who did you ask? That's great.

Who did you ask?

Did you Google it?

Did you text Beckett?

Guys, I know about all things. I'm a Renaissance man, okay? I don't go to Renaissance fairs, but I am a Renaissance man. But let's get back to the task at hand here, which is congratulating Matt Matt and Amanda on their beautiful little girl. Nell, I believe is her name. That's really nice. I was hoping it would be Konanina, but I think that has yet to fly.

Maybe the next one.

Oh, my God. No, that's very exciting. Instead of Matt, we have David Hopping. David is my assistant. You called me very excited this morning because my flip phone came through.

We know the flip phone saga.

I got a flip phone last year when preparing for the Oscars because I really wanted to focus. I don't want to be constantly harried and harassed by the thousands of people that have my phone number. Last year, I got a flip phone so I could really, really focus. I just only five people had the number, and I could bury my other phone. I asked you several months ago to reactivate the flip phone, and you're great, David. You do everything the minute I ask.

Thank you. Let's leave it there.

You wouldn't do it. I kept forgetting. I kept asking you and you'd be like, on it, and you wouldn't do it almost to a pathological degree. Now, is it stupid? I could just turn off the other functions on my phone. Is it stupid that I have a flip phone, probably, but I loved it. I love flipping it open, and I love looking like I'm trying to get some meth. I just love it. Or sell it. It's a burner phone. I like that maybe I could commit a crime and then hit the highway and I'm hard to trace. I love this little blue flip phone that I have.

Now it's a black one because your blue one stopped working.

Can you just reactivate it?

No, like the phone when it turned on. Yeah.

But You know what's interesting? Let's get to the issue here, the crux of the issue. You wouldn't do it for the longest time. It got a little crazy because I think I brought it up maybe twice a week and you'd say, Yep. Then he just wouldn't do it.

I just thought, I kept forgetting. What? Really? But then you thought you had the sickest burn. You were like, you're turning into Sona.

Why did you say that was Sona here? Why did you say that was Sona here?

I'm just trying to get the heat off of me.

What the fuck? Well, you used to famously not do things.

I have a point to make. I think you're changing the narrative a little bit. Did he really do it twice a week? No, he didn't. He didn't do it twice a week. No, you didn't. That's the thing. You always change the narrative to make the person seem less confident.

How many times do you think I asked over the last three to four months?

Maybe three or four. No.

Absolutely not. Anyway, Sona, you admitted in a remote that you had a hard time doing something that I asked you to do.

What is it about you that makes people not want to help you. The people who are supposed to help you.

I told him I never really understood when you said you had a block about assisting him until for whatever reason this flip phone thing.

I think you're the problem.

So the flip phone, there was something. But as a licensed psychiatrist and psychologists, I would like to dive in on this. What was it about the flip phone? Because you've never done that before, but you really did dig in in your own way. Go.

Here's what I think it was. You got a flip phone originally. Great. It was working. For whatever reason, the service stopped.

The person who was setting up our phone, I think, had never seen a cell phone before.

I think it was his first day.

I think he snuck in the back, pretended to be working there. Anyway, we had a bad experience there.

We were there so long that I was talking to the guy trying to get the phone set up, and I couldn't see Konan, and I look. Konan's just laying on a bench by the window.

Because we were there for more than an hour and a half. Oh, no. This person just looked absolutely dumbfounded about how to give me a phone number and just initiate the phone. That's what did it. We got burned there, and that's why you didn't... You thought you'd have to go back there.

The important thing is the phone's working now. Yeah, that's the important thing. You have a new number.

But you know what I'll remember is your refusal to do it for such a long time. That's the part, not the fact that now it's here and I should be happy, but I'll always remember is how long it took. That is my illness. It is. And my talent.

You'll bring it up in two years. Yes. It's going to be something he may have forgotten because why would anybody remember that?

I don't know why. I just never forget when someone around me screws up. I just It's with me forever. I love it. I think on my deathbed, and I hope this is not for a very long time, maybe I'll even be comatose, but all of a sudden, when the end is very near, I'll just start, almost like I'm in tongues, I'll start spewing all of the mistakes that I've recorded to exercise them from my body. It'll be just whole- Some people poop. I'm not going to do that.

I'm going to just be- Don't people poop? When they die. When they die. That's your way of pooping.

I don't think anyone does that.

No, I think No one poops. Don't they? Don't they poop a little?

Isn't there a poop? Death poop. It's a death poop. You're death pooping with the things that you're holding in.

I've never heard that. No one poops.

Did I make that up? No, I've heard that.

I thought it was I've seen two people dying. You're right. Neither one of them pooped. I've heard it on it? Yeah. Neither one of them pooped. I saw two.

How did this change? How did you do this? You totally effed up this conversation, really. I effed it up? Yeah. We were He's solving this whole flip phone issue, and I was going to go into a great impression of me spewing out all the- Oh, I'm sorry. No, it's too late. That's not happening. No, do it. But now we are into death poop. This occurs because all muscles, including the sphincter muscles that control bowel and bladder movements, relax immediately upon death.

The release of waste is not guaranteed, but it is a normal, natural part of the postmortem process. Death poop.

I'm right. I've heard of that. I think it's been vindicated. That's what it's called. Never heard of that. Okay, I think we should just end this segment. I'm really bummed Why? That was just to really bum me out, death poop. Congratulations to Gurley on his new- I'm sorry. Yes. Hey, we were on death. What about the creation of new life? There we go. There'll be no poop there.

Can I ask you a question? What? Were you upset that when he I don't know if David apologized for it, but if he apologized for it, were you upset if he didn't mean it or that he wasn't beating himself up over it?

I like people to beat themselves up over things. I know you do. And you never would. You were just like, Oh, yeah. I'd be like, Oh, that that keeps me alive, the heart medication. Okay. Yeah, I just didn't get it. Big deal. And you just wouldn't do it. You wouldn't say, Oh, I'm sorry, Cona. That's all you had to do.

In your world, you're just like, Everything I do is so nice and I need medicine and no one's helping me.

You're an evil. There's no medication I'm on that is necessary. Nothing. Not a thing. But in my mind, I've turned it into, I need to have this nitroglycerin pill or my failing heart will give when probably what I was asking you for was a supplement. Where's my whey protein pill? All right. There you did your voice.

You're welcome. You're welcome.

Okay, my guest today is an Academy Award-winning actress you know from such movies as Monster's Ball and Die Another Day. Now you can see her in the film Crime 101. I'm in love with this woman. You're just going to see that right now. Halle Berry. Welcome.

Konan, you have been one of my favorite people ever. Oh, my God. I think you know this. I'm not saying something.

I can't take that in, emotionally or spiritually. You know this, it's true. It's true. I will say this. It's really true. You were on the Late Night show. I think nine times you came on the show, and it was always just fantastic. One of my favorite clips is at one point we're going back and forth, and then I fake diss you, and you stand up and walk out, and I leap to try and... I mean, it's a talk show, and I leap to like, No, come back, and you commit You committed, you left, but then you came back. But it was such a great moment. I have to say a lot of cool people, a lot of very famous people come in this building. Things are a little different today. I show up about an hour and a half ago here in the building, and everyone's freaking out that you are coming. These are people that see big names all the time. Ted Danson does a show here. He's a big deal. He comes in, and all of a sudden, I heard all this noise downstairs, and I said, I bet you Halle Berry is here.

Someone said, No, I think that's Ted Danson. I went, No, they're way too happy. I love Ted Danson, and people here love Ted Danson. That's how off the charts things were. So It's just so great to see you. You look gorgeous, as you always do. I'm going to warn you that sitting next to you is a gentleman who's got... Listen, I think we have to come out with this.

It's a full disclosure? Full disclosure.

Let's hear it. This is Matt Gourley. Matt, why don't you confess your love and obsession?

Well, I just love the Bond movies, and so it's such a pleasure to have a Bond girl in here like this.

Also, iconic Bond girl. I know. In my opinion.

Very iconic. Very iconic scene. Jinks. Anyway, I'll shut up now. That's out. We've got it. It's taken care of.

Why are your glasses fogging over? I don't know.

Am I not in the shower right now? Okay.

Yeah. I would say between there's this I mean, you hit so many notes in your career, but you think about it, there's this intersection of Bond Girl, which means the world to so many people, but also X-Men, Storm, and then all this crazy, hardcore, legit movie roles, and it all comes together, and you couldn't have planned a career like that. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, I know. I did not.

It'd be scary if you did.

It'd be scary.

I don't even know how you could. If you were seven years old and you had a chart with different intersecting circles and yarn, that would have been cool. But no, that's not... It's so funny because I was thinking a lot about you today, as I do.

See, I know you do. I do.

Your glasses are fogging. You're not even I'm wearing glasses.

I don't have glasses. My retinas are fogging up. I'm getting glaucoma.

I know. You have never forgotten me, Konan.

I have no. One does not forget you. I know this. Yeah. This was Wait, what was I just saying? My mind just- See, I'm telling you, you were thinking about her. I was thinking about you today, and I think about you, and yesterday, and then a couple of weeks ago.

Stop reiterating. Stop.

I I had this theory that very creative, interesting people and creative souls are created by this in childhood not quite knowing who they are, meaning that that's where real creativity comes from. I was just reading over your whole life story, which is really something. You, as a child, were very dislocated in a lot of ways, emotionally. I thought at this moment- I'm still dislocated. Yeah. Emotionally. Yeah, but I think that leads to a creative soul. It's not always pretty, but I sometimes think that living a completely normal, happy childhood isn't always the best recipe for being creative. Do you agree with that?

I do. I think so. I think always searching for something, for love, for acceptance, for belonging, I think does allow us to go really far in our business. We're searching. I'm still searching. I think that's the purpose of being here. If ever I figure it out, I think that's when I'm in that box looking straight up.

I'm going to be buried facing down.

I'm going to be burned up. I don't want to be in a box, actually. I'll finally be out of a fucking box when I die.

So you want to be burned up and then put through a snowblower and shot all over the place.

All over everybody.

That's what I want.

That's what my family's getting when I die.

So many people are going to turn out for that ceremony. I'm covered in Halle Berry. This took a crazy turn I didn't think this was coming, but that's what just happened. No, but I was thinking about it. You're born to white mom, Black dad, and then not really much of a relationship with your dad. And this childhood of I know your mom took you to an all-white neighborhood, so there's a lot of dislocation, I would think, and a lot of like, Wait a minute, what's going on? I need to figure out who I am. Your dad's family didn't want to have much to do with you guys.

Is that right? They didn't want to have much to do with my mom because she was white. But I was really close to my grandparents, my dad's mom and brother. But the thing about that childhood was, looking like me, obviously being Black, but having a white mother, girls, kids, you want to be like your mom. But it was painfully impossible for me to be anything like my mother. She was blonde, blue eyes, everything I wasn't.

And your mom was born in Liverpool? Yeah. I never knew that. So I knew what you were putting. Your mom doesn't even sound like you when you're growing up.

Well, she did because they came here very early, so she didn't really sound. She lost. Her family really didn't still sound like that. But we looked nothing alike, and I could never achieve that. I used to walk around with a yellow towel around my head, pretending I had blonde hair. I just wanted to be like her. I felt very confused about my identity growing up. Even though we lived in an all-black neighborhood, I wanted to be like my mother. I think that's a very natural state of being, and I never could be. I think that's led to my feeling of not belonging and not really knowing who I was. If my mother's white and I'm Black, what does that mean? Who am I? Am I really Black? Am I half Black? Am I mixed? Am I not mixed? I don't feel very white. I don't look very white, but yet I have this white mother. It's part of me. It was a lot of confusion growing up. How would I identify? It was actually that white mother that really made me realize, You are not white. Yes, you are half me. She knew I was proud of that, but she told me, You will be identified as you are.

You will be perceived as Black. You are Black. If If you accept this part of you, your life will be indelibly easier because she saw me struggling to identify myself some way. We all need to identify with something, to feel a part of something. I realized pretty around the middle school years, I realized I was Black, and that was okay that I didn't have a Black mother and that I would never be like her that I was. I had a Black fifth-grade teacher that helped me also realize, You're amazing just as you are.

This fifth-grade teacher was so important to you. She became a big part of your life.

She did. Yeah, a big part of my life. She's now my kid's godmother, and she's still a part of my life.

That's amazing. I do not have that relationship with my fifth-grade teacher. Do you remember your fifth-grade teacher? I do, and I got the police looking for her. No, I'm kidding. I'm thinking fourth grade, and you know who you are. Anyway, we'll get into that later, meaning we'll never get into that. But It's interesting because when a kid that young, I think, is struggling to figure out, feels off balance with such an elemental thing at such an early age, they start looking for signals. They start looking for things maybe harder than a kid who's completely comfortable would. For you, it's watching movies. You're watching movies, you're watching whatever's going to come on television or whatever you can see in the theater. Yes. That's where this begins, this road you get on.

I think so. I think so. We were latchkey kids. My mom was busy working. She was a single mom, so she was always working. It was a lot of get home, let yourself in, figure out your food, figure out your fun, do your homework if you want to. You don't.

It's all cool.

We grew up, we were very independent. I also got into a lot of fights. Growing up, I was busy fighting a lot. Physical fights? Physical fights, yeah. Bullied.

You would fight back. Were you good at fighting back?

I didn't fight back at first. There's a story that really the moment when I decided to fight, I was one day Do you want to hear this story? I do. Okay. One day, I was getting bullied quite a bit, and I would always know that I was going to get my ass kicked because they would come and tell me, After school, we're going to kick your ass. I'm like, Okay. Thank you for letting me know.

Was this all because of the color of your skin?

That. I was still not a shrinking violet. If you said something to me, I'm going to say something back. That probably got my ass kicked a few times. But this one particular day, this really tall, this girl was already six feet tall in the sixth grade, came to me and said, Yeah, we're going to kick your ass after school just so you know. I said, Okay, sounds good.

This is all very… I love It's like, can we schedule that in? Yeah. I'll put it in my planner. I have something at 2: 15. I could do 2: 40. 2: 40 works. Ass-kicking, 2: 40. Ass-kicking.

It's so 6-foot girl making me think, was this you?

No red hair. Okay. Very funny. All right. And yes. Go ahead.

I'm on the bus. They're on the bus. I know it's happening. I get off, and sure enough, she gets off and two other girls get off. Then three boys get off, too. I thought, that's interesting. It's interesting. Get off the bus. Sure enough, I'm walking home. Got my head held low. I know it's coming. I just don't know when the first hit's coming, but I know it's coming. Out of nowhere, I just feel on the top of my head, that's how tall she is, just like, boom. I did the Wiggle Down.

You turned into an accordion.

I became half of myself. Hit the ground, and when I was down there, she then ripped my shirt off. Then I realized why the boys were there. They were going to see something. Ripped my shirt off, and I just have my little breast buds out. The humiliation was so great. I felt I could not do anything. I allowed this to happen to myself. I just knew it was going to come in, and I just accepted it. I didn't know the stripping of the clothes was coming, but it all was just so terrible. They all continued, the boys included, then laughing and kicking me until I ended up in the sewer, which was like the open water that ran outside of our house. We were like in a little country suburb. And there I was in the gutter as they ran off laughing. And when I got out that day, that was the day that I said, No more. I am never going to accept that somebody's going to kick my ass. And I said, okay, well, then let's do that. And that was the day I started fighting back. And I didn't fight back necessarily fight with fire.

I decided I was going to control everything at the school. Because part of the reason I was letting myself get beat up is because I didn't feel good enough. I I didn't feel on par with these kids. I felt like somehow in some twisted way, I deserved that or I didn't belong there. I decided I'm going to be the class president. I was going to be on the honor roll. I was going to be the head cheerleader. I was going to be the editor of the newspaper. I did all the things so that I could not be denied. Through that, little by little, respect grew for me, and I felt good about myself. Therefore, I felt that from everybody else. By the time I left that school, I felt I was now running the shit. I was in charge. That's how I dealt with feeling less than, allowing myself to be beat up.

There are those forks in the road where that terrible experience you had, things can get worse after that or they can start to get better. You made this decision, All right, things get better now. Yeah. That's what's going to happen.

Those are pivotal moments in one's life. It was my fifth-grade teacher, Yvonne, who was there to help me come up with this strategy. She helped me realize how I could... Leaving the school wasn't an option. It was, how could I fight back without going to their level and using violence and figuring out how I was going to murder all these kids. It was more about, how do you really fight back that really will benefit you as you grow No, we don't just beat these kids. It's not about these kids, really.

Well, also best revenge is success. Yes. Having an amazing life and being a superstar. I'll get there. The Oh, man. I'll show you all. I'm real pretty. I was thinking your early foray into being seen is in beauty pageants. It's interesting to me, which you were very successful at, and to have people looking at you that way.

Are you successful in beauty pageants?

Were you not? You took that route, and then you're being seen that way, but you must have known, No, I've got this whole other... I've got these this amazing toolset that isn't even being utilized in me just being in this pageant.

Sometimes you fall into something. You don't really know how you got there. That was my story. I don't really know how I... Well, my boyfriend at the time entered me in my very first one because he wanted to have a girlfriend who was a queen, a beauty queen.

What the fuck? He just wanted that tiara. I want a tiara. It's so weird. They're expensive.

Because does that make him the king? Then just by law.

That's so weird. Yeah, I guess.

The queen console.

That's a strange calculation. Yeah. Of course, I show up.

I get this letter in the mail that says, One day, you've been accepted to the Miss Teen, Ohio page. I was like, Well, really? How did I get in that? He's like, Oh, I sent your high school picture. I sent it in for you. That was a good thing. Once you got in, I got in. The thing about beauty pageants, when you win one, then you have to go to the next one. There's always a step next. I went on a string of winning, and every one I got into was just because I'd won the one before. I had to go do the next one, then you had to go do the next one. Then finally, I lost, and it stopped. I went on to my life.

You were never heard from again. I don't know who you are right now.

But it was a good way to start. I got to travel. I went to every state in this country, which was really good. I had to find where the best bananas Foster was in every state that I went in before internet. That was a hard thing to do. Where is it? So that was a hard thing to do. Why? I had to find it. In each city, I had to find where they made the best bananas Foster for our group. I was very resourceful.

Bananas Foster, does that have caramelized?

Is it the one you light on fire?

Yeah, you light it on fire. It's got bananas and brown sugar and rum and butter and cinnamon and vanilla. You put it over vanilla ice cream. You make a thing with the cooked bananas. It's like super good.

You need to get that in here right now. Can we have a- Or just some rum. I'll just skip all the other- Screw the banana and shit. I want that rum. Then there's this leap I don't understand, which you go from that experience to, and I know there's a lot that Must Happen In Between, but Jungle Fever, Spike Lee, how does that happen?

How does that happen? How does that happen? Well, because I came from beauty pageants, when I realized I was studying at Second City, and one of my teachers there said, You know, you should be an actor. I said, Really? He said, Yeah. When I got this chance to audition for Spike, it was to play his girlfriend. The thing was pretty girl is his wife. I was like, Okay, that got me in there. But when I got to meet Spike, I said, I know you want me to read that, but can I read the crack hole part? Can I read the other part? He was like, No, you're not the crack hole. I said, I am the crack hole. I am the crack hole.

You have no idea, Spike.

I am the crack hole.

He was like- Not crack, it's bananas Foster. That's my crack crack, but it's still the same idea. How did you convince him?

I just said, I am really more than the pretty girl. I want to show you that. Let me go. He goes, Okay, go in the bathroom, wash all your stuff off, and maybe I can see you as the crack hole. I did that and I came out, and then I got to audition for that part. He was like, You are the crack hole.

Congratulations. You are crack hole. You are crack hole. You are a cracko. You are a cracko. You are a cracko.

You won. You're the crack hole.

I'm getting crack hole right now. From Beauty Queen to crack hole.

I know.

That's like a journey. But I also knew if I was going to really be doing this thing seriously, I felt like I needed to come out of the gate being more than... Speaking of boxes, I did not want to get put in that box.

But I think if you look back at the trajectory you already had and what you had been dealing with, because you had to fight all those battles, you're in a situation where most people are just thrilled to be in the Spike Lee movie. Do you know what I mean? And pretty girlfriend in the Spike Lee movie is just fine, thank you. But to be in that situation, say, no, actually, over there is where I think I need to be, writer-director, auteur. That it all comes from this. It goes back to this same idea, discomfort, a feeling of being unsettled as a kid. I think that builds this strength and where you're, No, I'm not going to do that. I need to be over there. Even if maybe people around you are saying, Don't rock the boat. This is the part you could have. Yeah.

I knew being a Black woman, it's the bottom. It is really the bottom. You have nothing to lose, only to gain by rocking the boat and demanding more and asking for more and being loud about it. You have nothing to lose because you're already at the bottom. That's really how I felt.

Yeah. It's unbelievable that... I'm going to skip ahead to Monster's Ball, for which you win an Oscar, and it's a historic Oscar. It is a seminal moment in film history, history. It's a big moment. When you see that part, do you think this could be huge for me? Did that resonate with you, or did you go into it thinking, Oh, this is another part I can play, and I'm going to do it? Maybe it was hard to see how far this could go.

Yeah, I can't say I thought Oscar. I don't think anybody can think, Oh, this is going to be an Oscar. I don't know. If you think that, that's insane. But I felt like this was either going to be one of the best things I ever did or it would end my career. But that's where I like to live on that edge of risk big, win big. I've known you cannot win big if you don't risk big. If you don't even try, you're surely going to lose. People around me said, Because at that time, I hadn't done nudity, and the sex scene was a big... It had a big red light on it, sex scene. It was such a big part of that movie that people close to me said, This could really beThis could hurt you. This could really hurt you. This could not be a good thing. It was a little small movie, no money. It's like a little indie. It could be all for nothing. I had the feeling that I related to the character. I wanted to play the I said, If this ends my career, then I'm ending my own career on my own beliefs.

It's what I wanted to do. If that's the case, then I have a knowing, then that's what it's meant to be. This isn't for me then. I have a knowing of that, that if it ended it, then I'm in the wrong place, and it would be the universe showing me to move or where to go. I didn't I didn't think that there could be a negative no matter how it turned out.

Also, as you just said, you have that, I've got nothing to lose here. It's a great attitude. It's a great attitude, which you come by that the hard way. You come by it very honestly, but it's such a position of strength.

When you really believe that, and I do, I can still sit here 30 years later at 60 this year, not afraid It's great to do anything, really, because I still feel that way. I have nothing to lose, nothing. That is a really empowering feeling. That has allowed me to try many different things over my career. It didn't always win, but it didn't mean I lost. It didn't turn out the way I wanted it to, but it didn't mean I lost. I'm still here. It's just like, Okay, well, that didn't work. Let's try something. Nothing can level me when you're at the bottom.

I say that to young people. You're already out down there. I say that to young people all the time, which is I tell them, You don't get dinged as much as you think you will be for failing.

In order to get it right, you need more shots on goal. You have to keep trying.

Well, now you're getting into sports, and I don't know what you're talking about.

I don't know either. I just know what that means.

Someone help me here. Matt? Oh, forget it. No, not me. There's no one here. Oh, Edward. Great analogy. Okay, there you go.

You know what shots on goal means. You need more chance. You You have to keep trying.

There's a ball of some kind. Look, this interview is over. Completely lost me. Oh my God. I still remember that moment when you won. Like I say, it was a historic win. It's so funny because I was writing notes. I write notes and I can't always read my own handwriting. I was writing them real fast and ideas and stuff. Then I wrote down on a piece of paper, yesterday when I was thinking about you coming. What I wrote was supposed to say, First Black Person to Win Best actress. And what I wrote was, First Woman to Win Best actress. Of course, I'm writing real fast and I just dropped. Then this morning, I'm looking it over and I'm like, Wow, first woman to win best actress. That's amazing. How did she pull that off? But It's so interesting because that was such an electric moment and so real because you really, I don't think, had thought that might happen.

Sure, I wasn't. Because back then, the Golden Globe was the precursor, and I didn't win the Golden Globe. That was the night I knew, Well, my chances are over. This has been fun, though. This little movie that they thought could have leveled me got me this far. It was done then. One of my only memories of that night, actually, is Russell Crowe. When I walked up to get my Oscar, he saw that I had left the building, and he just looked at me and he was like, breathe, mate. Just breathe, mate. You got to breathe, mate.

I was with him in a Lamaze class. That is exactly how he sounds.

That is, I mean- And it woke me up to, I got to breathe. I'm like, Yeah, I got to turn and I got to talk to these people.

You're a very spiritual person, and I've always known that about you whenever I talk to you. I mean, there is an aura around this woman. You have this... You're connected to something that cannot be explained. I know that you've talked about having this life-changing experience in India. Were you on a soul-searching mission when you went to India? Were you talking to a shaman? Were you talking to a religious figure?

What happened?

How do you know about that? I've been following you. How do you know about this, Konan? You know that weird lady that you always see about nine feet behind you, scribbling in a notebook. First woman to win best actress. Can you believe a woman won best actress?

You're not even accurate.

No. I was just reading all this stuff about you, and it said that you had this great life-changing moment in 2017, and it sounded fascinating. I know I'm a skeptical person, but I'm also, in a weird way, not a skeptical person, and I'm very much interested when someone else has an experience like that. I want to know what happened.

Okay. Well, yeah, I was there on a thing, and I decided to go to... After we left Mumbai, I wanted to go to this wellness center in Kerala, so I did. There was a and there was a shaman there, and he took me and my group. We were there at the end of our week. He took us all out to meditate, right on the edge of the ocean. You do it at three o'clock in the morning when all the high priestess and the Buddhas are meditating. It's the highest vibration. We're out there at the edge of the ocean. We're on on our mats. I have four people with me. We start. He said it's going to be a long meditation. We're going to go three, four hours into it. So we're in it. We're in it. I'm going to be about an hour in. I'm still in it, but I just look around. All my people are like,.

They're no longer Are these friends of yours or is it agent, manager, accountant?

No, they're friends of mine.

I'm just picturing me bringing Rick and Gavin. Oh my God. Michael Carlin, all these guys in suits. All right, everybody, let's get in the Lotus position. They're on their phones. But anyway, so these are friends. They're friends. And they're not having it. They're out.

They're like, It's too damn early. They're sleeping. But I'm still in this meditation So finally, he comes to me and he says, For the last hour, I want you to put your eyes at 20% just so you can see, but stay in your meditation. So he keeps guiding me and talking. So all of a sudden, he starts to walk in front of me, and he walks to the edge of the ocean. I see him out there, but I'm in my state and I'm meditating, doing what I'm doing. I look and I see that there's a shadowy figure that comes to him. I'm thinking, Where did that come from? It looked like it came out of the ocean. But I'm thinking, while I'm in the meditation, Well, how could that be? What would come out of the ocean? Is that an alien? What am I seeing here? So it stays out there for a while. And about 20 minutes later, he starts to walk back towards me. That person or that figure just goes away. I thought, now, what the hell is that? Who was that? So when the meditation is over, he says, so what happened?

I said to him what I just saw. And he said, oh, yes. It's what I thought, Come with me. So he takes me into a little room and he said, You know what just happened out there? I said, No idea. Where did that man or that person, where did that thing come from? He said, That was your third eye opening. You saw my aura. He said, was Is it black? I said, Yep. He said, That was my aura. You now are in the club of your third eye opening. There's a good, there's a positive, and there's a negative to this third eye. You're going to see so many things you couldn't imagine you would see. You're going to understand things instantly in a way you never used to before. But the bad part is, the negative is, you're going to have to act on it, and that's going to get you in a lot of trouble. That's going to make you unpopular. It's He's going to have you have a really hard time in relationships with people. A lot of them will come and go as a result because you will no longer be able to be silent when you know something or you see something or you feel something.

I said, Even if I try not to say anything, he said, You will see, you will not. You will not be able to be quiet. And, Konan, that is the thing that has happened since that time. I can no longer be quiet, and people have come and gone as a result. I have ended relationships as a result, seemingly out of nowhere because I saw the truth of the situation. And there's sometimes when I see the good in a situation and I go down a path and I embrace something that everybody's like, What? You're doing that? I'm like, I see it. This is going to be great for me. I see it, and it turns out to be great. I've learned to trust that this third eye, this thing I have, it's real and I got I just trust it now. When someone leaves or I tell someone, This is done, or I stand up for myself, or I switch my management, or I change whatever I'm changing, I now have a knowing that there's this other force, that there's this eye that I'm seeing clearly for myself. I can't see for you or anyone, but I can see clearly for myself, and I let it guide me.

Well, this is why I ghosted you, because I realized you had that third eye, and I couldn't handle it.

No, you don't want to ghost me, Cole.

Now I'm terrified that I did ghost you.

You don't want to ghost me.

But it's- You don't want to ghost me. This is something that I've come to realize at my age, and I'm a bit older than you, but I like it now. I just realized we have this culture that just glorifies being young, and being young was great. But I just feel like things make more sense to me now, and I know myself now. I feel like a little bit, that's what you're describing. I can't say I've had that profound a conversion, but I've had a subtler feeling of, yeah, there's some aches and pains now when I do my weird comedy moves. But I enjoy this period now more than the intensity and, I don't know, sometimes maniacal misdirection of '20s, '30s, '40s. This feels it's a calmer place to be.

I describe it by saying, I have zero fucks to give anymore about things and what people think or how they feel about the choices I make or what I'm doing or how I'm doing my life. That is a really empowered place to be able to say, Hey, I know you don't care that much about me anyway, so why do I give so much energy to what you're thinking about me or making choices that satisfy you or make you happy? That's a really good place. I can't say I was always there. I've been the dancing bear, and I've been trying to make everybody love me and like me and fit in. That's exhausting when you go through life that way.

Yeah. Also this profession is It is a profession. It's about how much am I being liked at this moment versus that other moment versus the next moment, and it can get in your head.

When you can really not care, really, don't just say you don't care. When you can really not care, that is a really powerful place to be.

I can't say I have zero fucks to give. I have three fucks to give.

Okay, what are your fucks? I want to know what Konan's fucks are.

I believe I can have sex three more times. In your life? In my life. I've been to a doctor and he said, I think you got three left. He did measurements and things, and he said, There's three left here. Oh, no. Yeah, no, it's true. I said, Can I get a new partridge? They're like, No, you are out of ink. I'm being very careful with how I use them. God. I'm sorry, Halleigh Mary's like, I haven't seen Cone in a while, and I now know why.

Yes, she read your aura.

Yeah, I read my aura. I'm like, What made you come in? I know. Let's talk about Crime 101. You made this film with Chris Hemsworth, Mark Ruffalo. These are fantastic people, I would think, to work with. Oh, my God.

Fantastic.

Fantastic. Yeah. It just sounds like a really fun movie. It really does sound fun.

It's very adult, too. I think we sometimes... I I've got two kids, so I search to find adult-themed movies. I've had two decades of cartoons and animated movies, and it's really nice to be a part of making a real adult, a throwback of heat and very It's got a gritty LA. Gritty LA. It's like a love letter to LA. We never get to shoot in LA. I'm so happy working here. To go to work and come home like normal people.

That's no small thing to shoot in Los Angeles because everybody Everybody is now, they're in whatever, they're in Greenland, and they pretend that it's... I mean, they will be once we own it, but I'm looking into it. You're going to buy it? We're going to move our... Once we conquer Greenland, I'm living in the podcast studio there. You're going to love it. Lots to eat. Lots to eat. Not a wide variety, but there's a lot of it. I've been there. I did a show there. I did a show there. I know. I went to Greenland a couple of years ago. The first time? Yeah, the first time.

Which is still very relevant.

The first time our president was talking about Greenland, I went there to check it out and talked to a real estate agent and walked around. You can see it all on one of our travel shows. But it was a profound experience. But I was saying that you don't take it for granted because nobody shoots much in Los Angeles anymore. To shoot an LA movie about LA, and this sounds like a joke, but if someone shoots a movie that's a love letter to LA, these days there's a 90% chance they are shooting it in the Netherlands. Do you know what I mean? Then they just throw some palm trees in there. It's amazing that you got to do that.

Really got to shoot it here. It makes all the difference in the movie, too. You feel like you're where you're supposed to be. I got to see my kids every night, which was about to go to France to work. I will not be seeing my kids every night. That's always what it's become.

Yeah. Can they go with you or it's just too hard for them?

It's hard. They're at the age. My daughter is about to be... She's 18 next week. She's going to college.

She's got her own things to do.

She's like, No, thank you, mom. My son's 12. He'll probably come because his dad's friend, she He speaks French, so he likes France, so he'll probably come for a little bit.

When my kids turned 18, they said, We never want to see you again. This has been nice. It's been real. Way too many bits every day in the How old are your kids? My daughter's 22 and my son's 20. Oh, wow. They're off in school and doing their own thing and constantly- How did you feel?

I'm dealing with my daughter leaving. How did you feel?

I'm someone who can get very disconnected from how I feel, meaning I'm really good at sublimating things and pushing it down. My daughter, when she left, because she was the first, and she's like my little girl, and then suddenly she's going off into the world, I had a hard time it. Then I think I convinced myself that, Well, that's my son. I won't feel my... I spiraled when he left because I realized that I was in denial a little bit, and then it hit me hard.

When she left, did she leave town?

She went to another city. Yeah, they both went away to school. But my agent says they're doing very well. I can't talk to those kids. Impossible. No, No, it's tough. It's a huge adjustment. I mean, you're going through this about to have a second child.

A daughter coming in a week or so.

Oh, my God, you're starting.

I know. It's really late.

And Sona has twins. Is it your first? It's my second.

Your second, okay.

Sona has twins.

They're young. They're like four and a half. I mean, they are four and a half. I don't know why I said it like that.

You're a strange person. But that's You don't think, and then when it happens, it is very surreal. It's very surreal. Then when they call you and say- How did it happen? How did it happen?

It seems like just yesterday, she was this little thing looking at me like I'm a jellybean. Now I'm just like...

No, when they say things like, I'm going to hop it.

Brookley's good.

It's good for you.

It's good for you. But I know I'm good for her. But it's hard to come to terms with. It's very hard.

I don't know how to feel. It doesn't make any sense. To me, the most surreal thing is when one of them says, Okay, I'm going. I'm going to hop a plane. Hop a plane? No. I'm going to go grab the Delta flight and go flying to another part of the country, and I'm going to then go do my own thing. I think, Well, who's going with you? Is your mother going with you? Who will show attend to you to make sure that you get to the bathroom? I've just completely lost my mind.

Well, because it's also just because you turn 18, one day you're 17 and one day you're 18. So how much more do you know just because you turn 18? You're the same. She's going to be 18, and she's like, Well, I'm going to do all these things I want to do now because I'm 18. But you were just 17 the day before.

Just because this little arbitrary click. That's a good point. Now I'm more terrified. I know. I'm terrified. I'm terrible talking to you.

But you're past that part, though. I'm past. You're past. You're 21.

No, you're never past. This goes back to the very beginning of the conversation. You said you never stop putting yourself out there. You never stop feeling like I need to grow. You never stop being a little afraid. That just doesn't stop. It doesn't stop. It's the good news and the bad news. And these things don't stop. I think if I get to live a really long time and I get to see my kids be in their 40s or 50s, I'll still be stunned that they're headed out the door to go do something and that we're not with them making sure everything's okay. It's always going to be the way. That doesn't go away.

It's always the parent.

Yeah, I don't think so. It doesn't go away. Are you still having, on this movie, Crime 101, you're working with these fantastic actors. Are you still in it having fun after everything you've been through, all these successes and everything, you're still there enjoying it in it.

I love it. Yeah, that's great. I still do. Sometimes I joke with my friends and think, I go to work for a break because parenting is hard. It's hard work. When I get to go do a movie, I just have to think about myself. I don't have to think about anybody's clothes, what they're eating, what they're doing, driving to a soccer game, picking them up. My daughter goes to school all the way downtown. It's a trek. It's an hour and a half, almost each way. And you do that twice a day, you're looking at a six hours out of your day, just school, driving. So when I go to do a movie, it's just me time. I don't care if it's 16 hours a day, six days a week. I'm just focusing on me, and that feels like a break.

Do you ever find your choosing roles where your character is taking a lot of bubble baths. Bubble bath and chocolate's the movie. I'll do it. It's really not a good script. There's no plot, there's no character development. I'll do it. That's what I would do. It's like Adam Sandler does that. Every movie, it's like, he's in Hawaii. He's at a great resort. Oh, and look, he's having a Sunday. Well, this has been It's an absolute delight. You've lit up our whole building. Everyone's thrilled you're here, and I adore you. I think you're amazing. You're just such a great, honest, cool person to talk to, and I'm just so happy you could be here today.

I'm happy, too. I legit mean, you have been always one of my very favorites every time I've gotten to come. We have so much fun.

We have so much fun.

It's been easy. You don't always feel that from everybody. I feel you just as genuine as I appreciate it.

Well, I'm crazy about you. I'm just delighted you're here. Thank you. It's all good. I'm just very happy.

Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

You take care. Thank you. I'm going to ghost you again. I will.

If I see something, I'm telling you.

It's currently January, February, beginning of the year. Earlier last year, we never scheduled it. It fell through the cracks, but we were going to do a white elephant Christmas party, suggested by Eduardo. I purchased something.

This is a year ago, you purchased something?

Well, no, last year in December. What did we say our price was going to be $30 to $40? Yes, I think so. I spent about $100. I just couldn't pass it up. I don't want to I can't oversell it, but I'd like to just bring it.

Is it a gift for one of us?

It would have been if we did the white elephant. You know what I mean?

If I like this thing, can I have it?

Well, let's just see.

It's like a prop comic. Oh, my God. Oh. Wow. Talk to me. What's happening right now?

I don't think I need to say the thing. I think this says it all.

Oh. Yeah. Well, if you're watching a video right now, then yes. But let me describe for anyone who's not, you've just put... Basically, they've turned a disco ball into a motorcycle helmet is what it looks like.

Or vice versa. I saw this and I just knew that this was the thing, and I was just hoping it was in the price range, and it wasn't. Then I left, and then I went back and got it.

Then we canceled it.

I was stuck with this thing. But now I'm glad that it happened.

I love that you... There's so many things that are perfect about this. You bought this as a gag for a jokey thing that then got canceled. It didn't happen. You now have what appears to be a disco ball on your head, but a complete with a strap with a little clicker so that you can strap it on.

It can't be street legal.

Yeah, I think- Because it's distracting. Yeah, of course. Anyone behind you with their brights on is going to be killed immediately by lasers. No, you can't be driving that down the street. You said a store had this. Now, it looks like something that you would buy on a site. It doesn't look like something that would exist in a store.

No, not only that, but there are two of them, and I seriously consider I think two of them so that when somebody got this and it went crazy in the white elephant, I could pull out a second one and go, How much?

You thought we would all want it and fight over it and stuff? Oh, no. Then we would pay you more than market value for it?

I was going to make a mint.

You look so stupid. Tell me about the store. Tell me. Sometimes Sona with- Wait, do you see this thing with your jacket?

Oh, my God. No, the jacket's too cool, bitch?

No, you wear that.

Matt, talk to us about the store where you bought this. I'm picturing in the 40-year-old Virgin when they go into a store that just sells stuff from eBay. Yeah. Who is it who wants to buy- Jona Hill wants to buy those- Jona Hill wants to buy those high-healed platform shoes that have a goldfish in them. I'm picturing it's that store.

It was a vintage store in Santa Barbara on State Street. Vintage? Yeah.

There was all kinds of kitchen vintage. So people were jicks long ago?

Hey, man, I'm Disco Fonzie.

This is good to remember that people had terrible ideas No, this is new. Forty years ago.

Because someone's making these, and there's a couple of them. It's new. So, I mean, make an offer.

Make an offer? Yeah.

Okay.

I'll pay you not to have it.

My offer is you can work somewhere else if you like. That's the offer I have for you. You know what's nice? You're a dad and soon to have two kids. They might like it when Where's dad? Where's dad? Where's dad?

My daughter responded just the same way you guys did.

She lost respect for you a little bit.

She bet zero. She had zero already.

How old is she now? Four. She's four. She said, It's trying to be meta and arch, but it's a little too much and a little too self-consciously twee, and you're like, Wow.

You said in a second what Konan has been trying to tell me for seven years.

You didn't No. Okay. If you had another one and you put one on Sona, too, and you went outside where there's sunlight and you aimed your helmets at each other, you might both go back in time.

Or you might Freaky Friday, just switch bodies. Yeah, no. I know what you mean.

Switch bodies. I don't know. That would just be weird.

It's just absurd. I'm glad we didn't do White Elephant.

Because you could have ended up with this.

Yeah. Have you done a lot of White Elephants? It was not a thing in my culture growing up. It feels like it's something that's more British. I think it's... Is that right? I don't know.

I have no idea. I did White Elephant with my friend.

My family now does them in lieu of individual gifts because it's just too big. It'd take too long. So we just do a big White Elephant.

But also it can get really mean.

It can. Yeah, I would think we should do it this coming year because I imagine you'd get pretty ruthless. Yeah.

No, what are you talking about? Because you can steal. Because you can steal. Yeah, but also what I could do is even if I lose out in the game, when When the segment's over, I could just say, And now I want all of the gifts. And you'd have to do it.

You'd have to give them to you?

Of course you do. Why? I'm a ruthless dictator here. I'm the Maduro of podcasts. Why do you think I'm always hiding? Any minute now, they're going to come take me away.

Hey, Eduardo, is there any way to dim the lights but just get a spot on this, baby?

I know I didn't give you.

Should I use my phone?

Just start hitting buttons over there, Adam, and then watch what it does to the room and then see what you're doing.

Do you want to try to hit the... Will the red light- Turn all the lights off. It'll turn off all the lights. That's okay because Sona's got- Is it worth putting this much effort into it?

Oh, yes.

This is big.

Sona does say that about everything Something interesting. Someday they'll be doing CPR on me and Sona will be saying, Do we really need to put this much effort? They're doing CPR on me. Some of my best jokes happen in the dark.

All right, now I'll entertain offers.

Okay, that was spooky. It did feel like I was in a strip club that closed, and I'm still there. I'm there for the food. There's no ladies anymore, and they're not even serving drinks, but I just can't get enough of that beef-aroni.

Hi, I'm Rosco. I'm the lighting designer and stripper all in one.

Oh, my God.

You know what? I think that's one of those gifts that's going to pay dividends.

It is? Yeah. Okay.

I don't know.

Even I doubt that.

I just know not to pick your gift next.

I know. That's when we actually do this. Well, you don't know whose gift is his. You don't know. We used to do White Elephant, and one of my friends forgot a gift, so he went back to his car and got a taco Bell sauce packets. I would rather have the taco Bell sauce packets than that disco ball helmet.

You'd say that even if you were at a taco Bell and you were surrounded. There were just like a bin of them. There were just a bin of them. But still, you're like, you can have more of these free things that surround you or that disco ball helmet.

Yeah. No, I like White Elephant, though. It's fun. We should do it next year. Okay, we'll do it.

This year. Okay, we'll do it.

We'll do it. Will you shop or will you just have David go find you something?

That's a terrible thing to say. People act like I live in some bubble. Once COVID's over and stores reopen, I'm sure David will show me where these, quote, stores are, and I will go to one and talk to a purveyor. All right. Well, listen, all I ask is that you wear that on the ride home and that you lower your windows as you head into Pasadena.

I'm riding on a motorcycle, no need. No, that's definitely a Vespa.

You need to be on a Vespa for that. All right, peace out.

Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Cessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and nick Leal. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivina. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer samples. Engineering and Mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brenda Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent Booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kohn. You can rate and review this show on Apple podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Konan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at siriusxm. Com/konan. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Konan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.