Transcript of DeSean & Byron Jackson: The Family Story Behind 'Go Deep' | NFL, Pressure & Legacy

4th quarter. It's just a time bomb waiting to erupt. DeSean Jackson! Oh! Tick. Tick. Tick.

Growing up, football was everything, and our father's words was like gospel. It's America's game. He believed it would be our path to wealth and freedom. But I never loved the game like they did.

Byron let me down.

But DeSean— 'Sup? DeSean got that fire.

There you go. I wanted to reconnect with my father, so I started filming every practice.

Get up, D!

Every game.

Represent Long Beach Poly.

I wanted to make a movie of our lives on and off the field. Let's go! Touchdown!

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Today we're talking about a new Prime Video documentary called Go Deep. The DeSean Jackson Story. If you know football, you know DeSean Jackson. He was one of the most electric receivers of his generation, spanning a 15-year career in the NFL. He was a 3-time Pro Bowl wide receiver for the Philadelphia Eagles and also won a Super Bowl with the LA Rams. But this film isn't just about football. It's built from decades of home video shot by DeSean's older brother, Byron Jackson, who had a camera on his family long before anybody knew where DeSean's career was going. What you get is a much more complicated story about their father, Bill, ambition, pressure, family success, some painful chapters, and what happens when one person keeps the camera rolling through all of it. Byron, thank you for joining me today. I've been talking a lot of shit about my father for years, and I've been doing it publicly. And so publicly, I'm going to undo it because I was wrong. And after I saw this documentary, I knew how wrong I was. And let me tell you why. Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times.

Good times create weak men. And weak men create hard times. My dad did it right. And your dad did it right too. So if anybody thinks I'm gonna start throwing shade at your old man, they're wrong. Dead wrong. That guy did it right. He belted out 2 kids that are thriving in the world, and that's a father's job, to make certain that his kids are okay in the world when they're gone. That's it. Job number one. Okay, we may not like The path that we took, but we don't get to argue with the results. And then we don't get to go back and say, oh, it should have been different. It could have been— that's ridiculous. I don't even have an ear for it. So thank you so much, man, for creating that beautiful documentary, Go Deep, right?

Go Deep, yes.

It was the most beautiful documentary I've ever seen. Amazing. All right, let's get right into it. All right, my man, let's go.

I appreciate that commentary on fathers because our father didn't do it right, but by all means, and he had 4 boys by maybe 3 different women, but he made sure we all stayed connected and it was brothers no matter what.

The love you have for your brother and that your brother has for you, if I think about it too long, I'll just fall apart because my brother passed away.

Sorry to hear that.

Yeah. Very, very lucky man. You started filming your family long before there was an NFL career or documentary. What were you trying to capture at the beginning?

I think I had just finished my career and I had just got into television and I looked around and I had no, not a lot of images of when I played. And, you know, being in television, I'm like, I wish somebody would have filmed me. So I was like, let me go film my brother and just document, you know, all of the— let me just document his journey, not knowing where it was going to originally go. But after play after play, he just kept, you know, making plays. And I was like, man, I have something. And then once I felt I have something, I had something after he played junior— I mean, not junior, but Pop Warner. I worked at Fox Sports, so I started putting together a highlight tape. And one of my buddies at Fox was a producer. And since he was a producer, he saw what I was editing. He's like, man, that's your brother? And I said, yeah, I've been telling you about my brother forever. And he came out to a game. He said, yeah, this is a documentary. So my buddy from Fox, he started filming with me. So we just kind of tag teamed it, the whole Deshaun's whole little life from Pop Warner to high school.

And not only were we tag teaming filming him, but I had just got, you know, cut from an NFL team twice. So I felt like I had all the knowledge to give him at a young age. So I was filming him, training him. My other buddy, Travis Clark, he was filming him and throwing passes to him. When he was training him throwing passes, I would grab the camera and film Deshaun and critique his routes and stuff like that. And it just went off the field. My dad was on the sideline kind of organizing all of my buddies to kind of build this Team Jackson approach around DeSean. And it was just kind of like a circus. We just started filming and training, and my dad was so hilarious, and I couldn't stop filming him because he would have us all cracking up, whether he was cracking a whip on, on us training DeSean, he was cracking a whip on DeSean, he was cracking a whip on people that came around and saw what we were doing and didn't agree. He would cuss them out and say, if you don't— if you ain't with this plan, get out of here.

So, it was, it was, it was a fun journey. You know, it was a lot of ups and downs.

But that's a singleness of purpose though, man. That's a guy who had a singleness of purpose. He had a vision. He had a dream. It's no different than any other father when you see that they've got these skills, right? And you're cultivating

them. Yeah. You know, I have to say, you know, it was a point in our, in my life where I had kind of ran my course of football and I kind of knew in my heart, I didn't have no more passion for it. And we got in an argument about me trying to get back in the NFL. He knew these scouts for the Steelers and he was sending scouts to different teams and I was kind of nonchalant about it, nonchalant about it. So, you know, I was like, Dad, what are you doing? Why are you doing this?

I got a question. I got a question. What did it feel like the first time you were hit?

Oh, the first time I was hit? I loved it, you know. I love—

Oh my God.

I love getting tackled. I love like jumping in the air when somebody's about to tackle me and I would spin around and just land wherever I landed. I was one of those daredevil type of kids that me and my little cousin around the house, we would play Oklahoma. I would run and jump up in the air and he would hit my legs and I would flip over him. So for me, falling and getting hit was the fun part about football. And as much as my dad loves sports and loved football, He never actually played football. He was a track guy and a basketball guy, and he loved tennis. He used to always tell us, if somebody hit me as hard as they be hitting the football, I would pull out my gun and shoot them.

Who came first, Venus and Serena's dad or your dad?

My dad was before them. I think he was before them. Richard Williams. Yeah, because when I was working at Channel 13 is when Serena and Venus started coming up. But my dad was way before his time. He was like the joke. We all— we had a running joke. That's Joe Jackson right there.

So that's right. You had Joe Jackson who started it, then your dad kept it going, then Serena's, uh, and Venus's father kept it going, and then, uh, Tiger

Woods'

dad. And now you got the Balls.

The Balls. And then Agassi had a very, you know, demanding father too.

Oh, I didn't know that.

Yeah, I didn't

know that. You know what the common thread is?

What's that?

Nothing but Hall of Famers. Byron, your dad had the NFL dream for you before Deshaun. You made it all the way to Kansas City before choosing filmmaking. How difficult was it to walk away from his dream for you?

Um, it was difficult because I knew his passion. I knew The reason why he brought me to California was for me to get to the NFL. And I think, you know, I had ran the course. I had got cut from the Kansas City Chiefs twice. Then I went up to Canada, played up there for a year and a half, and I got released from Canada. And then when I got released from Canada, I came to LA kind of like with my mind made up that I'm gonna get a job in television. And I started kind of pounding the pavement around LA. I was a production assistant for Higher Learning, John Singleton's movie. I was, you know, I had just got a job at KCOP, the, uh, actually the station that covered the O.J. Simpson trial. So I went from NFL training— well, a CFL training camp playing for Kay Stevenson, who coached O.J. Simpson. So there's news trucks outside of my practice, and then 6 months later I'm working at KCLP for the trial of the century, you know, the O.J. Simpson trial. So I'm at Rockingham, I'm at criminal courts. And of course, I was a, a PA just helping with the, you know, the batteries for the camera operators, helping with the reporters, but always had my camera in my pocket taking pictures.

I got pictures of me at criminal courts the day O.J. Simpson came out. I got pictures at Rockingham. So I was, I was documenting back then in 1990. What was that, '90? '94. '95, '96?

Nope, that was '94. And Johnny Cochran was the lead. And, uh, the Kardashians', uh, uh, father was, uh, also another lead. He was taking part of another part of the case. Your dad, Bill, is such a force in this film. What did he see in Deshawn so early on?

He saw Deshawn's energy. Deshawn has so many— so much energy as a kid. He would just always run. He was always jumping. And then I'm like 17 and a half years older than Deshaun. So I had— I was done with my career. So every time I would come to the house, I was always throwing them balls and I was having them jump off the bed and make diving catches. And my dad just saw that energy in Deshaun. And a lot of people used to tell my dad, you're killing that little boy. You're, you're going to run him into the ground. And my dad was like, no, Deshaun got more energy. I got to keep him active. I got to keep him— playing sports and not in the streets. My dad's big thing was keeping Deshawn out of the streets. We was living in not so much of a good area, LA.

All right, well, let's talk about that for a second, because that's something that I wanted to touch on, because you didn't get into that deep in the film. Okay, but the implication was, okay, he's hanging around with his gangbanging friends. That was the right Implication. Now, when I was a kid— now, I don't pretend to grow up in the inner city, okay? But I was a quarterback when I was a kid, okay? And the best games on the weekends were in the inner city around— my buddy lived on 103rd and Hoover, and another one lived on 61st and Vermont. So this is in the '80s, man. This is in the crack The, the, the Crips and the Bloods, everything. But you know how they leave the athletes alone, right?

Right, right.

And I was taught very early on when we're walking, okay, don't look at nobody. And if they ask you where you're from, say nowhere. Remember?

Hey, that's good advice.

No shit. Oh yeah. And one night I'm sleeping at my buddy AJ's. I wish I could find him. I just love that kid. He was so sweet. And We're in his house in the inner city and we're on these twin beds and the house gets shot up. Wow. And I don't know from this shit at all. It was busing. Without busing, I wouldn't have had any of these friends. Okay. And I'm scared to death and I start shaking and the kid grabs my hand. And he says to me, it's okay, nothing bad's gonna happen to us. Okay, that was one time, man, and I was scared to death. What was it like to see your brother getting hammered for this, for growing up and keeping his friends tight? Okay, and moving through life without hurting anybody.

Yeah, that was, that was disappointing, you know what I mean? That they judged Deshaun just because of his, his friends. I mean, his friends weren't into gangs, they just came from that area. And Deshaun is so loyal. Loyal sometimes can bite you in the butt, and he don't want— he never wanted to, just because he was making all this money and he was a superstar, you know, football player, he didn't want to like disassociate with his childhood friends. And, you know, I know you, you know, you reach certain levels, you got to sometimes distance yourself. But Deshaun, you know, not from

all of them, dude. Just for the ones that aren't— just for the ones that are pulling you backwards. Right,

right.

And he got that handled, right?

Most eventually. And when the stories came out that Deshaun has gangbanger friends, this and that, this and that, in my mind, I'm like, where are they? Most of Deshaun— all of Deshaun's friends that I know are good kids. You know what I mean? They just—

Well, you know what it is, Byron? You You know what it is? It's the NFL. It's the no-fun league, okay?

Yeah.

They protect the shield at every turn. I was there on behalf of one of my clients to get him back some games that he lost. And I'm sitting there and I swear to God, I see this guy named Henderson. He's the one, right? And I swear to God, you've got a table like this and there's gotta be 30 guys around the table. All of them white, all of them in, in Brooks Brothers suits. Not suits, Brooks Brothers suits. Like, not cool suits like a Tom Ford suit. These guys are wearing trash, okay? And then you had this one Black man running the show. Wow. And I remember the first time I spoke to these guys, and I just started doing this one guy. And then Henderson says something to me like— and I just looked at him, I said, hey man, I've been waiting 3 hours, you can give me 5 minutes. All right. And I did this thing and nobody cared. They already had their agenda done. And, uh, I gave my boy a hug and a kiss and I said, don't worry about it, I'll take care of it. And we got him back 6 games.

Wow.

Okay. It was the hardest thing I ever did. But I learned something that day, and I haven't watched the NFL, a full game, since.

Wow.

Because it tarnished me. These people were horrible people. I hated them.

Well, you know, they got— they've got to keep their league as corporate as possible, you know. And at the end of the day, you know, whether it's the NFL or you work for a corporation, you got to kind of formulate to the, to the company you work for, you know what I mean? So understanding—

That's uncool though. That's uncool. That's uncool. The NBA does it different.

The NBA does it different. But it was a time where the NBA tried to conform their players and making all the players wear suits, but that didn't last that long. So

that was Allen Iverson.

Allen Iverson. They tried to get the NBA players to be a little bit more corporate looking and It just didn't work, you know what I mean? Because how can you control how somebody— how— what they wear and how they dress and how they speak and how they wear their hair if they want to wear braids? So it's kind of hard to kind of police a whole bunch of grown men. So I think, you know, and it looks like most corporations are kind of like, I guess, taking a— taking a Excuse my quote, but taking the chains off and letting people be themselves. And that's one thing about DeSean I really appreciate. He don't let, you know, like, he don't let rules and regulations change who he is. He stays authentic to being himself.

Do you know what got to me when I was watching the film? And almost nobody would recognize it, I don't think.

What's that?

But he just gets done working out or something, and he turns like this, he throws up. And then he comes back like nothing happened.

That's part of the process, you know. You work so hard, you gotta throw up, you know what I mean? That's, you know, you push your body to the limit. And, you know, we had a lot of time— I threw up a lot of times working out. But I think that was during the time where Deshaun was going into his junior year. So that summer, our dad— we were intense. We had him doing so much different stuff that, you know, he threw up a lot of times.

You gotta get serious, and I ain't cutting no slack. How did I make it?

Well, that's when it counted.

That's when it counted.

All right. You had thousands of hours of footage, including some incredibly painful family moments. One of them, just to go, one of them was when your dad was talking about, or the family was talking about what they were going to get.

Oh yeah.

Right? That part hurt my soul. But what you did was you carried it through, right? And he said, I don't want anything. I just want my boy to do well. Right? And then when he got sick, There was something that shifted in your old man that I saw. And it was like, there's nothing to get. There's only to give.

Right.

And he was at peace. And all he wanted was his boys. Okay. It was the most— and when he put on the jersey, right? And he's telling all these guys, this is my son. Right. Wow. Whoa, dude, you did it. You are so talented. It's insane. I can't wait to see your next one. You're gonna do the next one with him as the coach. Tell me you are.

Well, actually, I filmed his whole last year building his whole coaching staff. I filmed how he designed his coaching staff, the style of offense he wanted, the style of defensive coaches he wanted. From the day he flew to Delaware and got the interview. I was on the plane with him when I filmed the interview with Dr. Allen and everything, not knowing if he was even going to get the job. I guess you could say that was bold, but I'm a filmmaker. I'm a documentarian. If you go look in a dictionary and see the word documentarian, you'll see a little picture of me right beside it because I just like to capture life, not knowing what's going to happen. I just feel life is— these days are so precious. Why not? capture a little piece of it, and you never know what tomorrow— what might happen tomorrow. So that's kind of like me. I'm a documentarian. I film.

So I'm a true sports fan. I love sports, and I don't get to talk about sports very often, but it's one of the things that, you know, I've done enough living. I'm 60 years old. I, I love sports. I watch sports. Um, so I looked up on the Football Reference Uh, website, right? Mm-hmm. See, another man who knows, right? We're still kids. We still do it. I know every stat for Barry Bonds. I still look at it every week, whether I need to or not. Okay. And I realized that your little brother comes in and goes 8-4.

Definitely, definitely. I mean, you know, he brought in— he's 30, he was 38 last year. He brought in 38 years of experience. And just think, he's been in the NFL 15 years, so he's been under at least 7 and a— well, at least 5 NFL coaches. He played for 7 teams, so he's taken in a lot of information in his— And seen a lot of stuff.

But that's the thing, Byron. That's the thing. He played for— he was a stud, and he played for 7 different teams, right? So somebody had a problem, right? Numerous times.

Yeah.

So you didn't see it coming for him being a coach, right? Doug Williams, you get. Doug Williams, where did he coach? Grambling?

Coached at Grambling, yes.

Okay. He took over for the—

It's funny you mentioned Doug Williams because he coached me in the World Football League. He was my wide receiver coach in the World Football League. So he went from Grambling, then he got back into the World Football League, and then somehow or another he made his way back to Washington, to Washington, to the Commanders.

But he is— but he was an elegant man. That was an elegant man. You could see he's going to be a coach. He is going to be a molder of young men, right? He's going to do it. But Deshaun was more like Deion.

Yeah.

Like, you didn't see that coming.

No, not at all.

Right? And, and it worked. And, and the beautiful part is, let me tell you what, why I say this. Because I donkeyed off 25 years to drug addiction and alcoholism. I was homeless, the whole thing. Okay. And I was a failure for 25 years. But you know what, man? Life is like a football game. Okay. And you get to play quarter by quarter. And it doesn't matter what I did in my first 3 quarters. Because I can still win. I got a 4th quarter.

Yeah.

Okay? And he ain't in the 4th quarter, right? He's like, not— he's like winding down the 2nd quarter, right? And look at what he did. This is like the greatest thing. Do you know how much cooler it is to be of service to young boys and build them up into men? And give them everything your father gave him and you gave him and the 38 other years, every touchpoint, every person gave him, and he's giving that away, man. That's as good as it gets. I'm sorry.

That's, that's, that's really amazing. I think since he's been in coaching, I think he's found a strong purpose, and I think that's That's kind of what drives me is purpose, you know. Um, I filmed his whole life for over 35 years, and looking back on it, I see all the different, like, pillars that it took to get him to the NFL, but also to get myself to the NFL. But then those same pillars, I created a whole curriculum behind our story. So I use these same pillars to help other kids take The fundamentals of sports— if you take those fundamentals of sports to win championships, you could take those same fundamental principles to do anything in life.

Truer words were never spoken. All you need to learn in life is from team sports. That's it for me. I mean, that really is the lesson, right?

Definitely.

Hey, is my— is, is, is, is my coach in the background eating Chips?

I think he's showing some players some footage of him when he was with the Eagles and how to get off bump and run in some of his old routes.

Was there ever a moment when being a good filmmaker came at the expense of being a good brother?

Um, yeah, you know, I think a lot of times, but I like to see it as the opposite. I like to see me being a great filmmaker forced me in my brother's life during times I wouldn't really be there. So it put me in his life during a lot of times. You could see a cow where I could kind of— I couldn't, as you could say, I can't control my brother, but I can keep giving him positive feedback, positive affirmations, positive, look, Deshaun, you're going too far this way. Let's get back on course and go that way. And I think being a filmmaker kept me there, kept me entrenched in what was going on. It kept me at his practices, kept me at his you know, hanging with his homeboys. When, you know, if there's one fight scene in the documentary, I was in between a fight with my camera getting beat up. But—

Wait, wait, which, which scene was that? I don't remember it.

It was a scene where right before he was about to go to the NFL, it was a lot of tension in the atmosphere at his apartment. And some of his buddies had some animosity towards each other and they got into a brawl. And I'm in the middle of the brawl with my camera trying to break it up. And Deshaun is like, at the end of it, he's like, I tell you not to get in the middle of fights, but I'm always trying to be peacemaker. I'm always trying to, you know, see the lighter, the lighter side of things and try to always encourage, if it's not my brother, but encourage players. There's a way to do things a better way.

How proud are you of this guy, of your baby brother?

I'm proud of you know, the coach he's become. I'm proud of the man he is. I mean, I'm more proud of the father that he is to his sons. I mean, he loves his boys like, like our dad loved us. I mean, he's, he's a lot more gentler than our dad. Our dad was a puncher and a screamer. Deshaun's more— he's more gentle with his boys. He's not as over the top pushing them to play sports. He's kind of letting them find their way and just kind of like Look, if you want to play football, great. If you don't, you want to, you know, be a— one of— I know his son is really into editing. He loves editing. Into what? He loves editing on CapCut. He puts together amazing little pieces. And you know me as an editor and a filmmaker, I always encourage that. And everybody say little Deshaun is acting like his Uncle Byron because he's always editing stuff like that. So Deshaun encourages it.

Do you know where I lost it? I just fell apart in 2 scenes. One was seeing your father in that bed. And then— and then, uh, he's gone. That did me. But not nearly as much as at the end, when he's tying his son's shoes, and he's being gentle with his boy.

Yeah.

Okay? Wow, that's everything, right?

Yeah, yeah. I think we can't help but to have a little of our parents inside of us. And I think as, as aggressive as our father was, he did have a loving side to him. And I think that comes out a lot with DeSean and his boys and seeing how he's, you know, raising his sons and seeing how how loving he is to him. He really loves his boys. You can't take that away from him.

No, no, no, this— it's everything. Uh, uh, you think you know what love is until you have a child.

Exactly.

And then you know, uh, then you really know. Um, and you're a girl dad. You got 4 girls.

Yes. Yes, I got 3 daughters. I got a 33-year-old, a 24-year-old, and an 18-year-old.

And I gave you an extra daughter.

Gave— well, I got 2 granddaughters, so I feel like I got 5.

You had thousands of hours of footage, including some incredibly painful family moments. How did you decide what the public gets to see and what stays within the family?

Yeah, that's a, that's a great question because I tried to do a documentary about 10 years ago, and I tried to keep it kind of conservative, and I never got no distribution deal. So So the second time around, I got an opportunity to do this documentary after Deshaun retired. I went and found a director that I really trust because I always felt like I was too tied to the footage. And, you know, I was gonna— I was always trying to protect my family and it didn't really get me nowhere with the first documentary. So I hired an experienced director, Manden Lovett. He directed 50 Cent documentary. He directed a documentary on French Montana. He's a very good director. And I started showing him the footage. We first became friends. We started playing tennis a lot, and I started sharing with him some of the footage on my drives. He's like, bro, this is incredible. You've really filmed your brother since he was like 4 years old. Because I would tell people all the time. But as I started to know this director and started having an understanding of what type of stories he wanted to tell and how he wanted to portray our family, I started trusting him.

So I kind of put all the footage in his hands to tell the story the way he saw it from the outside, because I felt like I was going to— I was always going to try to protect my family. And that's even with the footage he did show. I fought against it, but he used some really good analogies to sell me on it. And I understood, like, this documentary got to be real. It can't be a puff documentary.

Without that one part, and I know it bothered you about your father, talking about what he was going to get. I know that that bothered you, okay? Because I can tell just— yeah, you are— who that— how that affected you. But without that piece in it, the rest of it doesn't carry the weight,

right? Right, right. So, you know, you— so you, you, you so married to the footage, sometimes as a creator you got to step away and put it in someone else's hands that, that can see, see it from a different angle. So that's what I did. I got a director And I think he did a fabulous job. I mean, a lot of scenes, a few, several scenes that I wouldn't have probably wanted to show, he showed. And I think it makes this documentary more, more real and more like, you know, nobody has a perfect life. And all these like superstar athletes just want to show the good side. But there's a— there's some things that these athletes do that can really help other people going through situations. And I think Deshaun's documentary, it shows even some of his players now, like Coach Jack, he's like, yeah, this didn't really help my career. Just think if I wouldn't have, you know, did this or that. I'm gonna save that for people that haven't seen the documentary, how much better my career would have been. So I think there's a lot of good reasons we show certain parts of the documentary.

I want to, I want to tell you something that just came up for me because it bothered me earlier. Okay, you won. Forget the filmmaking for a second. You were on an NFL football team. I don't care if it was a practice squad. That's everybody's wet dream. Okay, everybody wants that. Everybody. I don't care what they say, right? Because nobody wants to admit failure. But that's a win, dude. You won. Okay, so don't ever forget it. Don't ever minimize it. Okay, there's only a very few people that are going to the Hall of Fame. There's only a very few people that make All-Pro. Okay, there's only a few people that make the Pro Bowl, and now no one's gonna make the Pro Bowl.

Right.

Right.

I mean, you know, you're absolutely right. During the time, all you think about is, dang, I got cut from the Kansas City Chiefs twice. I didn't make it. But then now I'm 58 years old. Those memories of putting on that Kansas City Chiefs helmet, looking up at the big Kansas City Chiefs Arrowhead Stadium and being able to walk through those tunnels, those little things, it felt like I had a 10-year career, to be honest with you.

That's right. And you're probably in love with the Chiefs still.

Oh yeah, anytime I see Kansas City Chiefs, it kind of— it's a warm place in my heart for it, you know what I mean? And just, just to wear that shield, I mean, like you said, lace up the cleats, pull up those socks, and put on those NFL pads, that was like a dream come true. Even today, sometimes I have dreams of being able to do that again.

Every day, families across America lose someone they love to an overdose. That's why I've partnered with the CDC Foundation through their COPE— Community Overdose Prevention Efforts— campaign and committed to matching every donation dollar for dollar up to $25,000. I've spent my life helping people recover from addiction, but if we can get to the place of prevention first, this would help save so many more lives. I hope you'll join me in supporting the CDC Foundation's overdose prevention work at cdcfoundation.org/cope. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Deshaun is in the middle of a football season at Delaware State. We caught up with him as he was getting ready for another game.

What's going on, man? How you doing?

Good. How are you doing, Coach?

I'm good, man.

Thanks for joining us. Let me ask you a quick question because I know you're, you're short on time. When you finally watched decades of your life compressed into 91 minutes, What hit you emotionally that you weren't expecting?

I think in the grand scheme of things, man, just really seeing it all be put together. You know, this is not the first portion of a documentary that I was able to see. You know, all those hard years of hard work. You know, we used to kind of sit back and just view it, recap it. And, you know, it was always good to have being a young kid growing up, you know, before I really became pro or became a collegiate athlete, just going back just to critique my Workouts and what can I get better at. So I think just to look back after Amazon, you know, we got Adam McKay, we got like big-time producers involved and just to see their visionary and their thoughts be put together. I think from my perspective, it was just like, wow, like look at all that body of work and all those years be summed into 90 minutes of an awesome documentary.

Hey man, do you know what you did? You took a 1-11 team And in one year turned them into an 8-4 team. I even figured out a way to watch all your games now.

That's dope, man. I appreciate

that. Are you kidding me? I'm like a— I'm now a fan, man.

Yes, sir.

You loved playing football. That's obvious.

Yeah.

How are you feeling right now? How are you loving this? Yeah,

I'm enjoying it, man. I'm able to, you know, put my hand and touch these youths, you know, and just motivate them, inspire them. I think the biggest thing is, you know, all the insight, all the information that I have, you know, the good things I did, the bad things I did. You know, I think over and all, just to be able to be at an HBCU where the resources are not as high as some of these other collegiate, you know, universities is for me what makes me motivated day in and day out because I know these young men wouldn't be able to be in a situation like this if I wasn't here pouring into them and, you know, just really just trying to get the most out of them. I think, you know, in today's era, it's very challenging, you know, 'cause social media, it's entitlement, it's, you know, what this person got, what this person don't got, you know? So I just feel like to kind of peel back the layers and say, man, just be appreciative of the moment, the opportunity, you know, be blessed, you know, work for whatever it is you have.

And if you don't have it, work that much harder, you know? So I think that's what I've instilled in my players. And I think that's why we was able to have success is Because, you know, we had talent here, but they just didn't really know how to win. So, you know, you had to dig deep and just let them know like, man, you guys could do it, you know? And as a motivator, as a leader, and anything in life to be able to lead or to motivate people, they have to be willing to know that you'll go through it just as much as you want them to go through it.

Do you love these kids?

For sure. Definitely, man. A lot of passion, a lot of love for them.

That's why, bro. Because you led with love and these kids, need the love. They need, they need to know that somebody believes in them. Okay. And you walked in and you said, I believe, and this is the way they followed. And the rest was done. Hey, let me ask you a question. You know what I do for a living?

I don't.

Okay. Well, some people think I'm the best in the world at, at treating drug addiction and alcoholism. And I speak all over the world. So if you ever want me to speak to your kids, you ever have a problem with even one kid,

Yes, sir. I would love— I would love— I would love to get you out here, man. I feel like it's a huge need for that, man. I deal with that on a constant basis.

No, no, no, bro. I got you on that. That's not your job. Okay? You call your assistant. Okay? I handle all that shit for you. And not only are they straight, but they're running through a wall for you. They're completely new people. Okay? So if you need that, I'm your guy.

I need that. I'm gonna take— I'm gonna take you up on that. I need it.

No money. I need— I require nothing. You know what I require? I require one day.

Yes, sir.

One day on the sideline for 5 minutes just so I can sit there because I've never done it before. I'll cry like a little bitch and then I'll move on. How's that?

I got you. Come on down anytime you want. I got you.

I want— you grew up with enormous expectations on you very young. What did that pressure do to you mentally, not just as an athlete, but as a kid?

It taught me principles. It taught me to have a goal, have a passion. You know, you can call it pressure, but, you know, for me, I was a young kid that I loved sports. It was something about the competitive nature that wanted to, you know, just go outside and, you know, compete with my friends, and I wanted to be the best doing it. So I think to have the support, people can say it's pressure, but I look at it as really having the support, having that drive, having somebody to extra motivate you when you didn't want to work out, when you didn't want to go do the extracurricular sports, you know. So for me, um, I didn't really understand it at a young age, you know, because it— at that young age it probably was pressure. But the older I got, it was like, you know what, he cares, you know, and it's love. It goes back to that love word.

So here's the question. It's not written down, but it's the best question of the day. Your dad brought a lot of good. You weren't on the show when I was speaking to Byron. I'm a fan of your dad's. Huge fan. Okay, you don't get to argue with the way you got about that, the road you took, because your result was perfect. So you got He did it. He won.

Okay.

He made certain that his children were okay in the world when he was gone. Okay. Best dad ever. We don't get to judge how you got there. We're results-based people. Okay. Right. That's, that's what happens. Um, what parts of your dad did you bring to your team? And what parts of your dad did you leave behind and not expose your team to?

I think the resilience part of it, the portion of, you know, believing in one another, believing in yourself, believing in a goal, right? Setting a goal, setting a standard, and mapping out any way possible to accomplish that goal. I think for one, you got to have a strong mindset. You got to be resilient and you got to have a dog mentality. my 3 principles here as a coach. Um, what I left out, uh, it's hard to leave out anything that got to deal with Bill Jackson, you know, especially when I was around him majority, pretty much all my life. So I just think the hothead, you know, of like crashing out or like blowing a gasket— and I do it sometimes, but I tried this year, I've tried to like cut back on, you know, not blowing that gasket and not going too crazy sometimes. So I think if anything, I'll probably try to like like, you know, manage that a little better, if that makes sense.

How are you different with your son than— or sons— that your father was with you?

Well, I kind of map out for my kids what it is that they want, right? You know, I think my dad kind of wanted us to do what he wasn't able to do. Um, so I made it. So I think it's my, my passion or my my route is a little different in my kids because like, I don't wanna be that father pushing my kids to do something they don't wanna do and they don't have a passion for it. So my kids love sports, but I'm not too overaggressive on them. Like, you know, I want them to come to me and be like, Dad, I wanna do this. And then if I know that you really seriously wanna do it, then I'm gonna go over and beyond to make sure I'm dedicated to motivating you in that area. So I just think just allowing them to be kids, allowing them to have not that pressure or just to kind of grow up and say, you know, this is what I wanna do, Dad. And then once I know what it, They want to do 100,000 speed.

What part of the documentary made you cry?

Man, shit, everything, man. I think, uh, early on, man, I think when my dad, uh, you know, was very emotional about my, uh, junior season when, um, you know, we was, we was up for the Heisman and, uh, you know, I could just see he, he was just getting very frustrated when I stopped getting the ball and Um, he felt Tefer was kind of like trying to like prove a point and like, you know, bench me or not throw me the ball. Like, I, I— for me, that was very emotional because I remember what that moment was like in my life. And, um, you know, I was high as a hopeful and I was on that right track, and then just out of nowhere, it kind of just got pulled right up under my feet. So I think that was the most emotional part. Obviously losing my dad was, was tough. Um, I can't say I was prepared for it, but he made it a little easier because he, he was like, man, don't worry about me. Like, I'm gonna be good regardless, you know what I'm saying? And I think from a family, we kind of just accepted it.

And I just knew my role after he, he left and he passed away. Like, I got to go prove him right. And I feel like, you know, I've, I've earned that right. And we've proved the world that he wasn't wrong. You know, he used to— people used to call him crazy because he's like, man, your son ain't gonna be this, your son ain't gonna be that. But at the end of the day, everything he said since day one, he knew what I was going to be.

Dude, I love your dad. I, I loved that documentary so much that I've been talking shit about my old man for 20 years. Okay. Publicly.

Right.

To start this thing, I apologized publicly.

No, I appreciate that, man. No, for sure, man. What was your relationship like with your dad?

It was tough. My dad was a lot like your dad. Um, I don't know if you guys got beatings, but I got beatings all the time.

I know I did.

Yeah, I did too, all the time. And, you know, my dad wasn't an athlete and he didn't want me to be an athlete. He didn't give a shit. So I had to sit on his couch in his office because I was a bad kid. I was always fighting, always getting in trouble, always,

right?

And I would Sit there for summers. I would like I could go play Hell Week and that and all that other stuff. But when I wasn't playing sports, I was sitting on his couch watching him work, learning how to be a man with a work ethic. And at the time, I thought that was the most abusive thing in the world. Horrible. I'm a leader of men. Because of my old man. Yeah, it was it was tough. No, I'm not going to raise my kid that way. Okay, but you can't argue with the results. I get to help a lot of people, and I'll tell you something, man: being an NFL wide receiver is the greatest thing in the world, right? I mean, you did it, you won, but you're never going to love that the way you love this new chapter. Never, I promise you. It will fulfill you in so many different ways. You're going to bring these kids up and you're going to be like a Nick Saban where these guys come to you forever and you're in their lives and, and it just keeps giving and giving and giving and the love keeps expanding and expanding.

Bro, you did it. This is like the third quarter of your life. The first half was a huge success. The second half, you run up the score.

Hand of God.

Don't you see it?

I do, man. And you know, I'm in the moment. It's crazy because my brother always asks me like, how you feel about this? How you feel about that? But I feel like when you in the moment and you doing God work, you can't really— I mean, you can appreciate it, but it's like you don't get too caught up in the moment, if that makes sense. But I, I definitely agree. Um, you know, just having the relationships, building those special relationships with these players. I just feel like, you know, as a youth, when you're young, because we both been young, like I don't know if they really appreciate it during this time. Like, it may take them to, you know, and the ones that do appreciate it right now may be the ones that may be special and go on to play and do some big things. But the ones that miss it, they're going to come back in 10 years or 5 years. They're like, damn, Coach, what you were saying, like, I get it now, you know.

Bro, you and I were problem children. I'm sorry. We did our own thing whenever the hell we wanted to do it. That's what I looked at. That's what I was noticing. Okay. And I was telling your brother, you played for 7 teams. People had had beef with you, right? Because you did your own shit, right? Nobody saw this coming, bro. Okay, Doug Williams. I was telling your brother who happened to know Doug Williams, right? But when he was teaching, when he was coaching at Grambling, right, we all looked at that and said, that's an elegant man. We know he can do this, dude. You did it like Dion. Nobody saw that shit coming, and you did it and killed it. Okay, and now you— these guys get to look at you and go, I can do that, I can do it. And even if they fall short, it doesn't matter because the lessons they learned along the way, their greatness in whatever they do— and you're going to be around, okay, to make certain they fulfill their dreams because There's nothing to get, bro. There's nothing to get anymore. We already won. There's only to give.

Hey, you on point though, man. Like, that's like— I feel like, man, sometimes in life your calling and your purpose— like, I couldn't have sat here and told you I was gonna be a head coach 5 years ago, you know? But I think in life sometimes when God plans things and he put seeds down, you know, they harvest and they grow. And you look up and like, wow, like, look what he's doing for my life. Look what he's doing for my family. Look what he's doing for the the young men around me. Look what he's doing for my kids. 'Cause like, you know, like now, like my kids are young, but they, they see how much, you know, when we're out and people be like, oh, DeSean Jackson, can I get a picture? Can I? But then they come to my school on campus and now they see a whole stadium fill up that they couldn't even get 3 people in their stands before I got here. You know, like you said, turning— you say 1-11, I go back 'cause the past 2 years they was 2-22. The 2 years before I got here, they won 2 games.

and lost 22 in the previous 2 years. And in my first year, we go 8-4, and then right now we're 3-3. I mean, it's— nothing could really speak to that, man. Like, just the presence and the existence of just wanting to be great, man. I just, I just, I got a niche to want to be great in anything I do.

You're gonna do so well at this, and I've already thanked God in advance. So you're 9-3 now. You just got to go do it.

Hey, for real. Hey, we need it, man. Trust me, I'm in here now, man, cussing out these players like, man, come on. So hopefully they take it and they understand. Like, you know, I just want them to do great, man. I just want them to have an experience like no other, man, because we definitely can do it.

We talk a lot on this show about mental health. Athletes are taught to push through pain, pressure, and emotion. What do you tell your players today about asking for help or admitting when they're struggling?

Great question, man. I think vulnerability is, is huge. I think, um, you know, to be able to assess a young man or assess a, uh, uh, should he— even a young lady— and just when they're hurt or, um, in an uncomfortable situation, um, I think the biggest thing is being able to express it, being able to be, you know, vulnerable, be open, and not think somebody's going to think less or, or little Of you for coming to the grips of you need help or you're struggling or, you know, maybe something's going back, going on back home. So, I mean, we've created an open space. We've created a space where, you know, everybody on our team, and we have females on the staff, we have females that work for the school as well too. So it's not just males, it's females as well too. Just really being able to pour into them and say, you know what, it's okay. You know, I grew up and I held things on my shoulders that I never really expressed. And I feel like that weighs on your life, it weighs on your health. And it is okay to open up and talk about things, you know, because the only way you can get through things or, you know, cope with them is to open up and express it and maybe have somebody that you can be comfortable with.

Because I think a lot of times people are embarrassed to express that they're going through something or they're struggling in certain areas. So Just making it an open space and a comfort zone to have players understand that, you know, if you're going through things, man, you're human. Like, it's not going to be the first and it's not going to be the last, you know. So to just make sure you don't hold it in and you express it and you relieve your thoughts and relieve your mind. So I think that's huge.

I can't wait till the second documentary.

He's filming right now. You don't even know. He's sitting here filming.

Oh, I know. I know what he's doing. He didn't answer me. Byron didn't answer me when I said you're Promise me you're doing the second half covering him as a coach.

Nah, for sure, man. I appreciate that, man. And always, uh, I'm gonna reach out and hopefully get you down to talk to these young men because they need it.

How proud are you of your big brother?

Oh man, every, every day, man. You know, sometimes, you know, as an older brother, you know, you get into it, you know, with your brother. But at the end of the day, man, he's dedicated and I know he's, um, he's motivated to being the best he can day in and day out. So it's definitely good to see him get his credit. He's worked hard for it. And, you know, hopefully it's just the beginning. You know, hopefully it's just the beginning. So you'll— I'm sure you'll be seeing a lot of him with that camera.

He's such a good soul, man. He loves you so much. The relationship between you and your brother, if I think about it too long, I'll just start crying. I mean, I love it. I love that you have the love in your life. I wish you nothing but the best. and all the success in the world.

Yes, sir.

And I really appreciate you being here today, man. So much so. Yes, sir. You have no idea.

It's a pleasure, Rich, man. I appreciate everything for sure.

Good luck, Coach. Let me say goodbye to your brother.

All right, man. Take care. Talk to you soon. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'mma hold you up to that.

I'll be the blue guy in the corner, man, holding my breath, waiting for the phone to ring.

All right, bro.

See you later.

Hold on. All right. That was really good.

What was the hardest footage for you to watch again after all of these years?

I think it's always hard for me to see my dad in the hospital.

And when he was in that bed, it's like sometimes I shake my head every time I see it. I like, how the hell did I film that? How— sometimes I say how disrespectful. I mean, I look at it. And I said, I wonder if people are thinking how disrespectful that is to film your dad and he's at his lowest. But then I go back to every time I came to the hospital without my camera, my dad would always say, where's the camera at? Come on, you can't, you can't stop this because I'm sick.

So, but at the same time, that's, it's hard watching that. You know what I mean?

It is hard, but you immortalized him. You immortalized your father and your brother because athletes come and go, bro. It's, it's, it's, it's recency bias.

Yeah.

You literally made it so that the world will never, ever, ever forget your father or your brother, ever.

Nah, yeah, you're right. And,

you know, that's, that's something that I feel proud about. And I really feel proud that the work I'm doing now to get people to understand the blueprint, not to the documentary, not to Deshaun's career, but If you really look at the blueprint behind all of these principles and all of these disciplines from this documentary, Deshaun's career, my career, if we can as people take those same disciplines and become good people in the world, that's all we, you know, we know how to build winning cultures in sports. Let's build a winning culture in humanity. That's my goal behind this documentary.

Guess what, buddy? You can't have a more perfect ending than that. You can't. Tell people where they can find the documentary.

At Amazon Prime, Prime Sports, Prime Sports, Amazon, Amazon Prime. Just Go Deep, type in Go Deep and it'll come up and you can watch it. And if you want any more information as far as the curriculum and the work that I'm doing, You know, behind the documentary, you can always go to Sports Rhythms. That's my Instagram. Just like, just like it sounds, Sports Rhythms. Using sports to help people find their rhythm in life. And that's what sports done for me.

All right, man. I am so grateful to you, man, for coming.

See you guys next Tuesday.

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