Transcript of Marine Veteran Shane Neal: Addiction, Fatherhood & Finding Recovery

The day that it finally hit me that I had betrayed my son, I had to take the next step of action.

Because you felt like you were trading your son for drugs?

Yeah.

Thank you for your service. And thank you for being willing to share your story today. How you doing, buddy?

I'm doing fabulous, man. I couldn't, couldn't be better today. In what I'm doing, for sure.

Good, man. Good. Who are you before the military, and who did the military turn you into?

Who I was before the military, you know, I grew up in Texas, uh, without a father for almost 10 years of my life, um, and there was really no sense of direction, no authority in my life, uh, so I had no discipline, nothing in regards to, you know, wanting to grow into a, uh, a young man that, you know, kids that age usually being taught by their, by their fathers. Um, and, uh, you know, I, I lived that life for so long, which got me into things that I shouldn't have been a part of at a young age. You know, obviously the addiction started at that time, around that age. And, um, I just needed some sort of direction in my life. I had no idea. I was always— I felt like I was always, you know, ignored and not seen. I felt unseen because, you know, moving around and doing everything that was going on at the time, I was never settled. So I never really felt like I had a community. And then I looked back at my family and everybody was in the military. You know, a couple in the Marine Corps, one in the Navy, and one in the Army, which is my biological father.

So I had a military family. And, you know, I quickly realized that I did not like school.

Let me ask you a question, Shane. That's what you were like beforehand, right?

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

When you went to the military, how did that change you?

Oh, to the core, internally. From day one that you get into boot camp, you have no other option but to say and do what you're told. So it's a very drastic, immediate change that you have to succumb to.

Right.

You have no option.

Right. So you know what that brings up for me? The movie, I forget which movie it is, but they said, look, this ain't the military, ain't a democracy. We're here to uphold democracy and protect democracy.

Yep.

Right. I love that. I love that. No independent thought. Everything's a system. Right.

Oh yeah.

I love that, man.

Complete order.

That's what makes us us, right?

Yeah. It's complete order and discipline that's set. Set in stone and to the grindstone from day one.

When you came home, what was the hardest part that nobody could see?

The brotherhood.

You missed it?

Oh yeah. You, you find yourself in a community, community that you, you're not aware of what you're getting into. But once you, once you come out of boot camp, man, Doesn't matter where you're from, what you're doing. Everybody's friends. You know, and you can't find that anywhere. You have no other choice but to, but to become one unit,

right?

You know, and when I got back, or, you know, and you don't have that, you go from waking up one morning to having it, and then the next morning it's gone.

All right. Well, let's talk about the next moment then. Because I analogize it to an athlete who's had this identity, right? Yeah. And if the athlete doesn't go from whatever sport he was playing into something immediately that he had planned, that he knew in advance, okay, this is what I'm doing next. If he doesn't do that and he hasn't accepted that, then he's in for a real tough road. Real tough.

It's a crash. It's a crash. It'll tear it, it alone will tear your body down just from such dramatic change. You know, your immune system will drop, your, your levels of motivation to get things done. I mean, in men, testosterone, you see You see guys getting out and it's so low because you don't have that intensity anymore.

Right. So you didn't have a plan when you were getting out, did you?

I had an idea. I had an idea that I wanted to stay in communications, but I had no idea what, what, what I was going to get into or go back to school.

Is there anything in the military where there is a structure or a plan or a process around guiding, uh, active military members that are about to become veterans and civilians on how to transition into your next new thing? Is that, is that a thing in the military or no?

Oh yeah, they, they have, they, during your checkout period, it takes about a, within like a month or two, month or two before you, before your time comes, they're going to, they're going to send you to a lot of training to make that transition. Um, and they have a lot of good assets in place. Um,

what does that look like?

Uh, just schooling. Um, you know, jobs that might be available. And you all go through the— there's a career planner, it's called That's an Actual Job, S4. But they work with you and give you all the options that they give everybody. It's pretty much a standard system. Everybody gets the same exit plan.

Well, that's not good if everybody gets the same exit plan. All right. But you didn't, did you utilize this or no?

Yes, I did heavily. I mean, you're right. Not everybody, it's not the same for everybody because everybody's got to have therapists set up or whatnot and everything for when you get out and they set you up with all that stuff through the VA.

So, so Shane, why, what was, what was missing? In that transition process, because when you transitioned, your experience was not easy in that transition.

No, no, nobody, nobody tells you, nobody tells you that when you get out, you're not going to have people telling you what to do. You're going to have to have your own structure and your own life to do it all on your own. Nobody tells you that. This is how it's going to be until it's faced, you're facing it. You know, you go from, you go from sense of direction, you know, down to plans written on paper for what you need to do throughout the day to nothing.

But once you get your head around that, right, it would seem that it would be easier for a veteran than an average civilian, because once you get your head around, oh, there is nobody telling me what to do anymore, but I have the discipline to do the next right action and the next right action, the next right action. And then it becomes something that you've already been trained on. It's like muscle memory. No?

Yeah. I mean, to, to a certain extent. Yeah. Um, but I mean, it's just a transition of, you gotta figure out what you wanna do with your life. Go to school. Do you wanna, you wanna raise a family or, you know, start a business? Um, just depends on which way you want to go, but you have to figure all that out, you know? And the biggest thing, the biggest thing was, you know, support. Um, once you're actually out finding the support to, you know, get you through everything. Yeah. For me personally, it was, uh, I was lost. I was stuck in the middle of going to school, wanting to be a cop versus staying in communications. And throughout school, I was, I was still indecisive on what I wanted to do with my life.

Right, right.

You know, and it got to a certain point where I was standing still. And that was working an 8 to 5 job, 9 to 5 job.

When you first walked into treatment, what did you think about me and everybody else there? Be honest.

I heard about you from, from, I don't know if I can say their names, but, you know, my therapist and Ryan Riley. He was like, yeah, Richard's a tough, tough guy, you know? Um, and every— everybody would dread the thought of you coming to the facility or walk through that door to see how everybody was doing because you'd just jump into everybody's ass.

For the viewers, I'm not that bad. That was— that was old Richie. That's old Richie. That's not new Richie.

But you, you were just running your place how you wanted to be ran. And if it wasn't, you had— I mean, that's, that's a business owner. That's no— there's no problem with that.

Our CEO, Candace Candance Henderson, who is the single best CEO on the face of the earth, and it's not close. I like that these people think I'm paying attention and that I'm on it. That I like. But when, but when you walked in and you met those people, What was the experience like? How did it feel when you got there? Be honest.

It, it, I wasn't growing up. I didn't know what structure, like I said, structure, you know, and it felt like coming out and having that structure for the military and being on what I was doing for so long, just doing dumb shit. That I had to find that structure again. And when I walked in there, I saw it. And meeting the people, you know, as you know, I was angry. I didn't wanna do it. And no, I want nothing to do with it. But getting to know these people and I, for someone that's never been through the recovery before in their life and not knowing the process, um, It showed me really quick how people really care and are there for you. You know, you fight that, you fight it, fight it, fight it. But ultimately—

Do you know why that is?

They— so that you can live for tomorrow. And

the reason you felt like you were angry, even despite the fact that you were being shown love and respect and empathy and compassion, And you were safe. The reason that kind of pissed you off—

I felt like people were stripping it away from

me. No, no, no.

I figured I wanted to keep it.

I don't think so, man. I don't think so. I think a lot of it is— that might be part of it, but I think a lot of it was you don't deserve it. You thought it was bullshit. You thought it was fake. Right? Is that part of it or no?

Yeah.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

Yeah. No, because I, I was always skeptical about rehabs, you know?

Right.

Like, that's not going to fix people. You know, what is, what is, you know, complete denial? You know, I thought my life was manageable. I had a great job. I had this, that, and the other. But ultimately, I didn't have anything.

Well, you didn't have anything because you came not because you wanted to. You came because you were in trouble with the court, right?

No, not in trouble with the court. I made this decision on my own.

Really?

Yeah.

But in the middle of treatment, you went down to— remember at the— we— I got you on the phone the day before you went down and you looked like ZZ Top, like the— like the— remember that? You scared the shit out of

me. Yeah,

dude, you scared me.

Yeah, that was May 25th, 2024.

And you've got 2 years now.

Yes, sir. 2 years on Memorial Day of this year.

Dude, you're so different than you were when I met you. When I met you, when I met you, it's before we even had military contracts. And I was asking, we were pulling veterans out of encampments right off the street. And who sent you to me? The Wounded Warriors?

Um, yeah, they, they were, that was, that was one of the, one of the ones who referred me to you. Yeah.

Right. And then you were with, with us, what, for 7 months?

Well, I was with, I was with, uh, I was down at the Banning Burning House at One Method, uh, for about 5 and a half months. And then, uh, space opened up at Carrera and then I went up there for the remainder.

So, but you were with us in all of our— whatever our treatment centers were for a total— whichever treatment center I threw you in. Okay. It was, um, you were here for, for 7 months, right?

Yeah.

Shane, for people who don't know who you are, uh, why don't you tell people a little bit about what brought you to the military, um, when you went to the military, And what that experience was like and what happened from there.

Growing up without guidance and discipline and structure and looking how— looking back at how my family operated as they grew older, the men of the family joined the military. And knowing that I needed that structure and the obedience to accomplish what I wanted to. I chose to join the military at 18, right when I graduated high school, and, uh, you know, became, became a brother, became a part of a brotherhood that, you know, no one else could ask for unless you do it.

You still friends with a lot of these guys?

A couple of them.

How often you speak?

Well, my old gunny, my old supervisor, he, him and I talked daily, you know, and, you know, he did like 23 years of service. And he said, he tells me all the time, you know, you're, you're one of those Marines that, that always stood out to me and you did, you and I, you and I accomplished things better than Uh, what other Marines did for me, but you were one of my best ones. And hearing him just say that,

yeah, it's, it's as good as it gets. Let me ask you a question. Where does, does he, do these guys, him included, all live in your area or are you guys all spread out?

We're all spread out, but, um, we're close enough to where They've seen my transformation. They've seen, they've seen the, the progression in my life of who I used to be and who I am now. And that just being noticed and seen now and having that when I didn't have it growing up brings purpose to my life. That I figured I would never have.

Have you ever considered getting together once a year, just a handful of you guys somewhere, spending, spending, uh, a day together?

Yeah, we've, we've talked about it, and I mean, there's, there's Sometimes where it won't be all of us, but it'll be just the 2, 2 of us or 1 or 3 of us, you know, but we, we haven't really all, I mean, there's a lot of us. We haven't really all come back and—

You make the invitation, man. You give out the invitation and whoever shows, shows. Send it to 5, 6 people. 2, 3 people show. It's, you guys get to be together. I think that's sweet. Are you being of service to any other veterans right now? Are you helping any veterans right now at this point in your sobriety?

I'm working with a sober living and, you know, there's a couple of veterans that are in there. And then also going to the gym daily. I mean, it's full of veterans and we find out who we are pretty simple. So, um, just training with them, working out with them, you know, just staying, staying, staying tight to as many people as I can that, that know, that'll, that I know that will, you know, benefit. It goes both ways. When I was that one method man, I really got to a point where it was either fucking do it or not do it, and I chose to do it. And with how much I improved over those 5 months, I mean, I, it was a complete transformation. I was a totally different man within those 5 months. And in my head, when I heard I was moving over there, um, I was like, uh, I kind of wanna take this as a, as a good job. Yeah. As this man's really made substantial growth in his life and it's being noticed and we want him to see it.

Well, that might have been, that might have been the case,

but

I don't remember. But that was cool, man. So you were, yeah, that's, that's really cool. Hey, you want to know what I'm most impressed with and what makes me, what makes me so happy? It's why I wanted you on. a second time. And really, I'd like you on once a year, every year on your birthday, because I'd like to follow—

I'm always down.

I just want to follow your life, man. I mean, it's so emotional to have seen you when you got here and how bad off you were and how bad you looked,

man. Yeah, like you said, Being, being the person that I was last— when I, when I decided to come in compared to who I am now, you know, I was lost and unmanaged and everything when I came in. But now, look, I've— I'm, I'm about to graduate school next month to be an electrician. I'm about to be certified through International Sports Sciences Association to become a personal trainer. Strength and conditioning coach and a nutrition coach. I mean, and I'm selling peptides, bettering people's lives daily. I'm bettering people's lives daily, and this is my way of giving back.

I am so proud of the person that you've become. It's insanity. I don't even have the words. Okay? You look nothing like you did. You act nothing like you did. And I always saw The star player underneath. That I— for sure. Okay. But to see this flourished after, you know, you got here, and then to connect with you after your first year, and now to connect with you again in your second year, I— it's like, this is the best news that I could possibly have. There's nothing better than this. This is how I get my self-esteem. And what I really want you to talk about now is you talked about the good things that you're doing, and it's all hopeful, right? You're turning your life around. You're going to be an electrician. You know what's not going to be affected by AI? Electricians. Okay, it isn't. I mean, that is a solid choice. That is an excellent choice, especially for today, the times we're living in today. But what I really want to hear about, man, is you sent me a picture of you looking great, and I'm going to show that. I'm going to show the before and after here, okay?

Because I want everybody to see how magnificent you are today. But more importantly, I want everybody to know Okay, especially veterans. Okay, that you can come to me tore up. You can come tore up. Okay, and this is what you're going to look like in 2 years because this is the most hopeful thing. This testimonial means everything to me, and it will mean everything to veterans when they see it. Right? So that they can actually make a decision to get help. You just sent me a picture of you and your girlfriend. Beautiful. You told me how kind and loving and nurturing and how you get to experience love because you get to be a loving guy and you get to really work on a relationship that matters. Tell me about your joy of living and tell me about your relationship with this woman. And then I want really what I really want to hear is how you guys met because I think that's going to be the cool story.

The joy of living today, man. I lived in the dark for so long and once I dug myself out, I started to realize and see all the opportunities that were ahead of me that were always there. I just never was in the right headspace to focus and be consistent on what I desired in life. But now that I've got the 2 years under my belt, the clarity, the just direction and the future that I see with what I'm doing now, all of these roads wouldn't have been an option. If I didn't make that choice.

I know, babe, and you did make that choice. But tell me, but tell me what you do for a good time now. How do you— what do you do to enjoy your life?

You know, I have a very good community at church, and the community that I have there, it's a family. It's a family. And I work for them every Sunday. And if I can just give, if I can just do that for the church, I feel like I'm doing my best part, you know, doing the work for the people that come to church so that they can enjoy what, you know, should be in your daily lifestyle, which is God, you know. Um, it's just a joy of knowing that I have and possess the capability of helping others. Which is why I stay in the gym. Um, I mean, I, last week I went to the gym 11 times in a week. And I enjoy getting into that community too, you know, community after community that you find yourself going and being a part of and being introduced to you. Um, I feel like I'm just being rewarded.

So that's, that's all beautiful. I love how you did that, how you figured it out, that community is everything, right? We're communal beings. We have to, we have to love on each other, right? That's just our thing. Yeah. Tell me about your girlfriend. How'd you guys meet?

Well, how we met was kind of— I'll just go ahead and say it. The VA sent me a referral to go see an acupuncturist. And, um, lo and behold, I walk into the office and I walk through the door. You know, when you get that pause, I don't know if anybody's ever had it, but you get that pause when you're just like, whoa, it's just the energy fills the room.

After you saw her?

Yeah. When I, first appointment, as soon as I walked through the door. Complete speechless, couldn't talk, couldn't— it just, that energy came right over me.

How'd you ask her out?

Um, I think I, we were talking about a bunch of health stuff. Um, but we, we just ended up going on, on, on a date to the beach and—

Did you ask her out after the first acupuncture session or did it take you a couple sessions?

It took about 4 or 5.

Right. Right. Yeah. That's awesome. That's a great story. I love that.

I mean, time just stops. It's unexpected. Nothing. I was looking for nothing, man.

Does she love you?

Yeah. We love each other for sure.

You love her.

You know, and And dude, I, yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I've loved other women in my life, but I was loving them, hoping that I would want to be loved how I felt like I needed to be.

Right.

And all those empty, empty love times, they weren't there. But dude, this woman, Is the definition of love.

Do you guys live together yet?

No, not yet. Not yet. Taking it slow, man. Taking it slow.

How long you guys been together?

Since March 13th.

Oh, bro, this is like 4 months.

Yep.

Okay. That's good news. And everything's going well?

It's going great, man. Lived my, lived 40 years to finally find what, find out what true love actually means.

How often do you guys see each other?

Every weekend. We do our best we can to see each other every weekend.

All right. So that's, uh, 4 times.

Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then she'll come to church with me on Sunday.

Okay. So that's 16 times. Plus 2 is 32 times that you've seen each other at least, right?

All

right. At 32 times, you know whether it's going to work or not. 32 times, you would know. You go out with somebody for 32 times, you know if this thing's going to work or not.

Yeah. And we tell each other all the time, you know, people search for this kind of love. Their whole life, but never find it.

That's great.

You know,

I'm so happy.

And I, I heard a, I heard a quote one time. Um, it was, your significant other or future wife is always 5 miles within your radius. I read that quote and I thought about it. Her and I were, we were 5 miles within each other for years.

At what point did you stop surviving and start believing you could actually have a future?

When the, when all the clarity came back and I was able to process the life that I had been through and knowing that I never wanted to go back to that, and it was time to put a foot down and opportunities were given to me. You know, I, I was given the opportunity to start selling peptides. And at that point, I knew that I was just gonna stay around that community of health, health and fitness and just help people.

I think you're gonna have your own peptide company within a year too, Mac.

That's, that's what I'm hoping for.

Yeah. That's what I think,

you know, or, or graduate or, you know, become Electrician. I mean, I'm, I'm really looking at that, at the electrician as, you know, side jobs because I'm really focused and my desire is to become certified in, in the personal training, strength and conditioning, and nutrition.

You can do it all, but if you can get an electrician job, because these guys make a fortune, that's a, that's not a job, that's career. And then after you're doing it for somebody for a little while and you get really good at it, you can go on your own, right? And then you grab a couple buddies and you show them what to do. And now you've got guys doing this for you. But the coaching thing, I mean, I know you love it. So do that with, you know, I'd work out, I'd find somebody to work out with. You know, I'd get 3 clients in the morning back to back. You work out with them and you just made money to work out.

That's, that's the difference is that's how I want to do it. You always see these trainers in the gym that are training people, telling them what to do, but where's the form coming from? Where's the demonstration? What, how can they build off of what they see if you're not doing anything? So I want to work out with them, show them the movement first and then incorporate it into their life so that you get

You work out with them. You work out with them all the time, man. I did this to put myself through college. And what I did was I worked out with all my clients because I wanted them exactly to see the form. 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, right?

And that goes back to the military. That's exactly how they do things there.

I did not know that, but I'm visual and I need to be shown. And a lot of people are like that. And it also brings a closeness between you and your clients. And, you know, now you're more invested in them as well. So, you know, I love your plan. I love, you know, just as long as you're working out, man, you should be making money for that 3 hours. But after that, you're doing your electrician shit. Or you're doing that at night after your electrician shit. You're going to be making really good money, man. You're going to have a real good career. You know, that's, that's our thing. You know, we've got to be self-supporting through our own contributions. That's, you know, we know this. But again, back to the joy of living, you know, you're, you're, you're being of service, right? At church. Yeah. You're going to get filled up with God. You're acting in a way that is consistent Uh, with, you know, uh, being a godly man. You're helping whoever you can, okay? You're going to school to become an electrician. You found a beautiful woman, okay? And you're 40 years old, dude.

You're— you're— that's— that's— you ain't even starting from behind. Totally. I mean, that's when I started really getting started. At 40, 38, 40.

Yeah,

right in there, man. You're not behind.

Yeah,

you know, and every bit of experience that you've had, you know, is gonna— is going to put you in good stead. I, I love this. I, I love where you're—

yeah,

I love where you're at. In fact, there's something romantic about being in your late 20s to about 40 years old because you have this hope for the future that you don't have at 59, right? I got one foot in the grave. I'm not there, you know. The future ain't so fu— you know, the future's— the end of my future is— I can see it. I can see it.

Yeah, that's, that's the only thing you're ever out of is time.

That's it, man. That's it.

That's the only thing.

Do you ever just sit there and think about where you were?

What if I were to sit down with that Shane 2 years ago? And I'm telling you, we would've fought because I would've been so disappointed from who I am now. I would've, I would've turn myself on enough to activate something in that man's body to, to do what he did, make the decision to go in, you know? Um, but if I could, if I could do that, I would definitely beat myself up as a lesson.

Let me ask you a question, Shane. I never asked you this. What finally made you reach out for help?

Knowing that I was going to be potentially homeless.

Right.

Knowing that every piece of help that I tried to give myself in my own head wasn't working.

Dying, being homeless, going to jail. These are some pretty big motivators. Right? They're all bad. And sometimes the worst day in your life turns out to be the best day in your life. We just don't know it. We just don't know it at the time. That's all.

Totally. Something, something's just got to click and it took 38 years to click.

Yeah. So recovery takes work every day, as you know. What have these past 2 years taught you about yourself?

That I'm resilient as hell. I can— I could bounce back and overcome anything, you know. I was given the knowledge and the tools and the lifestyle to know what not to go back to. And just with that, man, the motivation it gives Um, we have our bad days, but what's a bad day if tomorrow's going to be a great day?

And there are no bad days, bro. They're bad moments. They're bad moments in the day.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. That's, that's, that's the kind of thing that you learn when you've had enough, uh, sober time, right? When you've gotten to a certain place in your recovery, you realize that you stop catastrophizing everything, right? Something bad happens to you today and the whole day isn't ruined, okay? 15 minutes is ruined. Maybe if it's horrible, it's an hour, okay? But you can— right? It's not the day, okay? All right. You're using your story now to help other veterans. Why is this so important to you?

Because the times now that they're growing up in were not the same as mine growing up. Elaborate. I thought everything was okay and everything was going my way. You know, I, I Had people in my face and, you know, constantly, you need to change, you need to change. Um, but I, I ignored it and I ignored it. But today, um, and I didn't want it, but today, um, it's the, the amount of help that is available now compared to how it was back when I was. Going through all my stuff, there's— it's substantially better.

But why is it important for you to be on this podcast and let other veterans know that, hey man, I was in a bad way too, but I got help and now I'm on the other side of it and I'm hopeful to start living my best life. And in fact, I'm living my best life right now. But I can see the trajectory and I'm on a rocket ship to stardom. It is. Talk to me about that. Is that why? Is that—

You know, I don't, I don't eat healthy. I don't work out for myself. I don't work out to— for awards. I don't work out to, you know, be able to look at myself in the mirror and be proud of what my body looks like. I work out so that people know it's possible to get where I'm at. When I used to be who I was.

What do you think keeps so many veterans from asking for help?

Ego.

Wow. Really?

Yeah.

It's— and I'm sure shame.

Yeah. Ego, shame, pride. They don't want to let— they don't want to expose We don't want to expose who we truly are. So we get, we get scared of standing in front of the mirror.

Why? Why is that, buddy? Why is that? Because you guys were soldiers and you were so competent. And now—

Because you're, you're, you're, you're so, you're so trained and so enthralled of, I can overcome anything.

So asking for help is weakness?

Very much so.

Wouldn't you ask your brother next to you for help?

Of course.

So why is it weak? Because—

of

course, because why is it weak then? Because it's not your brother that you've gone through this with? No. Why do you think it is

not weak? It's weak because you're letting your own self down. You're showing, you're proving to your own self that holding these in and not asking for help is your weakness.

Okay, so check this out. You've learned differently, right? Because, you know, therapy is something you get to do, not something you have to do. It's, it's how people, responsible people, uh, seek support. Um, so that they can go on and do great things in their lives. Right. So it's totally—

You have to accept it.

It was totally just, it's just backwards thinking. Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. My buddy used to call my buddy Sarge, who just passed away, who I love more than anything. Um, he used to call me first thought wrong. Like, every— in early sobriety, every first thought I got was wrong. Every one.

Yeah, that's true.

In fact, last year, right? So I'm, I'm the same guy I am talking to you right now. Last year He called me first thought wrong. If a veteran is watching this right now and feels hopeless, what would you want them to hear from someone like you who's been there?

Try to get away from it. Try and get away from the noise with anything that you can get away with it. Anywhere you can get away from the silence in your head.

What do you do to replace the isolation?

Exercise, try to get involved in a community.

You know, I love that. That's, that's exactly what I hoped you'd say. Church is a community. AA is a community. Support groups are a community for whatever you're dealing with. Um, you know, Um, I love that, man. That was beautiful.

Yeah. Um, yeah, that's where that's, that's helped me. You know, I, I was stuck in my head thinking everything was fine, but then getting into a community, it exposes everything that's not.

Do you know how hard it is to get, um, to recover alone? When you're left with your own thinking and you've got no community around you, it's, it's— I've never seen it. I haven't.

No,

it's too much.

No, that's, that's where you're— that's where you're— I mean, you silently become unmanageable, but without realizing it.

How has service at church taken on a new meaning for you As part of your recovery?

God has provided me this road that I walk on, and I'm not in control of it. I just choose the lifestyle so that I can live the best that's getting put in front of me. And being in that community of church, You have men's nights, you have watch parties for a soccer game, you have barbecues, you have Bible study, you know, you have, I just got back from what's called Wild at Heart. That's a, that's a 4-day weekend of nothing but, you know, identifying your flaws, identifying who you want to become, what you need to let go of in the past. And throw that in the fire and, and grow from it, you know, and, and God will provide you anything if you stay in his word, you know, and being— and you want to surround yourself with the people that you want to, that you want to be like.

What was the last straw? That, that brought you into treatment?

My son.

Tell me about your son and how that got you into treatment.

I did the best that I could for him as a father that I possibly could. Coached his baseball team. I built that core bond with my son, um, until You know, he, he found out. He found out that I was not doing what I was expressing and saying that I was going to do.

What were those things?

Um, drugs, alcohol.

Okay. And how old is— how old is your son now?

He's 14.

He was disappointed in his father, uh, because he was doing drugs. Tell me about what happened with that. How did that get you into treatment?

Um, it got me into treatment because I always, I always told myself that I wouldn't be like my biological father. I was taken away from my biological father due to those exact same problems that I had. when I was a year and a half. So I, I told myself, I do not want to be like my biological father. The, the day that— the day that I— the day that it finally hit me that I had betrayed my son, I had to take the next step of action.

Because you felt like you were trading your son For drugs.

Yeah.

And how was— that's over 2 years ago. What's your relationship with your son now today?

Um, we're still kind of, you know, not on the speaking level yet.

Oh, what's keeping this from being a success story and Um, and forgiveness from your child? What's, what's holding that back?

He's told me that he's forgiven me. Um, he's just not ready for interaction yet.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah.

Um, what do you do to stay in his life, if anything at all?

Um, I text him every chance that I can so that he has that in front of him. To, to know that I'm wanting to show up and I do want to be a part of his life.

Does he text you back?

Every once in a while.

Okay. So can I make a suggestion? Because I know how painful this is. This is the worst pain. Okay. Um, just a suggestion. I would text him 3 times a week. I'd even put it in your calendar. And just quick little notes. Hey man, I just wanted to tell you I love you. Okay.

Yeah.

Hey, buddy. Um, today you're 2 years sober. You've built your career, you found love, but your son still isn't ready. How do you carry that?

It's heavy, dude. It's heavy. You know, I'm, I'm just worried that In these 2 years, he's gotten to a place where he's comfortable living without me in it. And what I'm worried about is the longer, the more time that goes by, he's just— is he going to get more comfortable or is he going to be more curious into what his dad's doing now?

If your son were watching this episode 10 years from now, what's the one thing you would want him to know?

That I'm doing the best that I can to be the best father I can to him.

If another father is watching this who's in exactly your position, he's sober but his child won't let him back in yet, what would you tell him?

Completely focus on yourself and, and Don't let your agendas stop and your priorities stop for yourself because of that. They wouldn't want you to stop.

So I've taken some notes here and I want to read this to you and I want you to tell me if I'm out of line. Okay? Because this is how I'm thinking about it. My feeling is don't try to convince your son you've changed. Let your consistency do the talking. Never guilt him by saying, I'm sober now, why won't you forgive me? Respect his pace, even when it hurts. Keep showing up for birthdays, graduations, milestones, even if the answer is not yet. You don't need this kid's permission. Okay, you can show up at a game, let him see you there, then you can text him, hey, I just wanted to tell you how great you played, right?

Yeah.

One of the things that I didn't write down is find out what the kid likes. What are you, sneakerhead? What do you like? What size shoes do you Send him a pair of shoes every 3, 4 months. You know, these kids are growing every 3, 4 months now. Oh, yeah. At that age, they're going to run out of shoes. Send him what he wants. If he likes, you know, my kid likes a Rubik's Cube and then he likes cameras and whatever. And so, we talk about that stuff and since your kid ain't going to want to talk to you about it, just send it to him. It doesn't have to be expensive. Just the thought. Just, just, hey, I know what you like. I'm interested to know this, right? And, um, and, and I was thinking of you. It's just, it's just nothing expensive. Just, I was thinking of you, right? And, uh, his mother— are you getting along with his mother at all or no?

Uh, we have a, um, we have a community, we have communication. It's, it's, it's cordial.

Are you helping to pay for child support?

Of course. I make child support payments every month.

Okay. Okay. So she's not talking smack about you, is she, to him?

I don't believe so.

Yeah. Good. Good. All right. He just feels abandoned, dude. He doesn't understand it. That's why I think you got to creep into his life very gently. Okay. And just let consistency, uh, uh, do the work. Um, send him simple messages with no expectation of a reply. Thinking about you. Love you. I'm here when Whenever you need me. Okay? No fanfare around the child support. Okay? He didn't ask to be had. He's your responsibility, right? Nope, nope.

Of course.

No fanfare around it. Continue living a life your son would be proud of if he were watching from a distance. You're already doing it. Okay. And always be willing to apologize again without defending yourself or asking for forgiveness in return. Okay. If your son called you tonight and said, Dad, let's go get a hamburger, what would that moment mean to you?

That would mean all of my prayers are— that means that would, that would mean to me that all of my prayers are They're answered.

Well, guess what, man? There is zero chance that the man you are today, your son won't be proud of. Zero. Okay, you just keep going and doing what you're doing. You, you get that electrician thing, you work out with people in the morning, okay, where you're monetizing that, you sell your peptides, To everybody in the gym. Hell, you're there 11 times in the last week. You're like, you should be a goddamn, almost a peptide dealer in that place. Okay.

Yeah.

I can promise you that you keep going, you're going to have a great relationship with your son. I don't know when.

That's what I'm aiming for.

It's gonna happen. I see it. I just don't know when it's there.

Yeah.

All right. When people finish watching this conversation, what do you hope stays with them the most?

That they're not the only one going through stuff. That, that no matter what you're going through, there's always somebody there that will open their door for you. Even if you don't feel like it's— if, if that's the truth, it's true.

Shane, what about getting out of the military, uh, uh, caused you to escalate your drug and alcohol usage? Was there a PTSD situation from the military? What was, what was it?

Um, it was just a, just a, just knowing that I didn't have that specific entertainment in my life anymore. And I was faced with real life problems, um, where that wasn't exposed to me while I was in, uh, cuz they're, they're not. They're irrelevant in there. You know, you're taken care of, you're given guidance on everything that you do.

As you look back on it today, when you think about what treatment did for you, did it do— did it do anything for you? Was it a major part of your growth? Was that the start of it?

It was It was the start of just the feeling of knowing that I could be a better me and that I had to be the one to go out and get it. Um, really, really brought focus into my life.

You want more children?

I do. I would like— I would like a girl, one little daughter.

Wow. I don't know what you're gonna get. And I don't know if that's gonna, gonna work out. It's always a coin flip, man. But I can tell you this, you're a different cat than you were when you were younger. And I think you have so much love to give. And I want you to know that your 14-year-old boy saved your life. You said I did. In the first, the first time that we talked last year.

Yeah,

that's not true. It isn't. Your son saved your life.

Yep, I can agree with that.

I keep telling everyone, children are the best. You don't know what love is until you've had a child, and this child gave you a life. He gave you a life. It's amazing.

He opened it up for me.

Oh, yeah. So let me just tell you, after, after this interview, what I've gotten— pure joy. Pure joy. And it never feels good, man. It never does. Because I only think of the failures. I never think of the successes. But this one feels good to me. And I am so proud of you, man. I don't have the words.

Thank you.

All right. Is there anything that we left unsaid? Anything you want to say at all to anyone?

Well, just stay consistent in the better, in the better lifestyle that you're choosing for yourself. Stay consistent even when you don't want to do it. I love you, man.

I love you too, dude.

I really do.

I know. I really do too. All right. Hey, everyone, see you next Tuesday.