Transcript of E539 Samantha Martin and the Amazing Acro-Cats

We have some upcoming tour dates there in Colorado Springs in Colorado Casper, Wyoming Billings, Montana and Missoula, Montana Bloomington, Indiana Columbus, Ohio Champaign, Illinois, over there and the fighting Illini area, Grand Rapids, Michigan Lafayette, Louisiana and Beaumont, Texas. You can get all your tickets@theovon.com. to you are and thank you so much for the support. Today's guest is a cat advocate, a performer and a trainer. For almost 20 years, she's been touring with her performance crew of cats called the Acro Cats, where they perform routines, tricks and much more. She's also started the only all cat band in the world, tuna and the Rock cats. No one loves anything as much as Samantha loves cats. Today's guest is Samantha Martin and the acro cats.

Shine that light on me I'll sit and tell you my story shine on me and I will find a song I've been singing.

Yeah. So I want to learn all about acro cats and I want to learn all about the traveling cat universe and everything that there is to know about it because it really is just fascinating to think about them cats and, and everything that they're doing and, and just how involved with it you are. You know, just to start, I guess, what are some, like, what is a cat? I guess basically, how would you even, what is like a, like, I mean, I know it's kind of an easy question, but what do you, some people probably aren't even, that aren't big pets, like connoisseurs or whatever? How do you put that in a, is there a certain size of it? Or like, how tall is a cat?

You're open with a question I don't even know the answer to. They really vary in size. Some of the cats are more petite. We do a lot of bottle babies. So they tend to be a little bit on the smaller side, females a little bit on the smaller side. But cats are really kind of misunderstood. Everybody thinks that cats are aloof and that they can't be trained, that they don't really need socialization or kind of the same kind of things that dogs need. A lot of people get cats thinking that's not going to be any work at all. I just have to scoop a litter box or get an auto scooping litter box and throw out some food and be done with it, where a dog is so much more work. But in actuality, a cat is just as much work as a dog. And people should invest that time because cats are brilliant. People don't realize just how brilliant cats are.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I've seen some cats. They have all types of cats. Yeah. They even had one cat went to space. I think even I know a cat.

Went down Niagara Falls.

Really? You know, a cat that went to.

Niagara Falls, it went down Niagara Falls, it went down.

It.

The first person that survived a barrel trip down the falls, she took a cat with her.

No way.

Yeah.

For good luck or just for just.

Who knows? I mean, I wasn't around during that time to ask her afterwards, what made you bring a cat down the falls with you? But she and the cat survived.

Wow.

Yeah.

Okay, so a cat, like. And a cat can be, you said almost any size.

Oh, yeah. I mean, there's huge cats. There's Maine coon cats that are giant. Our cats are a little bit on the. They're all. None of our cats are purebred cats. Cause they're all rescue cats. But the Maine coon cats are giant. I mean, I've seen, like, they're almost dog sized.

Oh, wow.

So, and then there's the real small ones, the munchkins and that have the short legs and that they, you know, it's not really good to breed for certain things. You know, it just seems uncomfortable for some of the cats to have, like, short legs and difficulty for them to get around. But, yeah, they come in all different sizes. Shapes and larger small ear. Some cats are hairless. Some cats are completely, you know, furry.

Just so a cat can basically be almost any. Like, how tall are the cats you work with? Cause the cats I've seen are probably. A lot of them are about this tall. Probably. Well, I guess that's if they're just sitting up. If they're walking.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of. There's a typical cat size, but the maine coons are the ones that are the giant.

Oh, a Maine Coon.

Maine Coon. Yeah, the Maine coons are the giant ones. You know, see, people, like, with the record Maine coon, and they're holding it, and it takes two arms, and it's still hanging over their arms.

Yeah. It's like a play in the bass, kind of. And do you. Do you employ any Maine coons?

No, because they really. We need small, agile cats to be acro cats.

Okay. So for acro cats, we're talking a smaller cat. We're talking. What's the premier size? Kind of like a. For an acro cat?

Oh, the runts, the orphans, the runts, the strays, the ones with that. With the. Especially the ones with the attitude, with the troublemakers.

Oh, really?

Those make the best acrocats. They do those little like. Cause they got like short cat syndrome, so they already have like a little chip on their shoulder. So they've got attitude and they're like, you know, don't mess with me.

I'll show them.

I'm going to show you. And so, yeah, those make. Those are the best acro cats. And they're a little bit on the smaller side, so they can do a lot more.

Okay.

Climb higher. They can jump further. Yeah. They're more agile. So, yeah, we tend to employ strictly rescue cats.

Okay.

No purebreds.

Oh, really? So you guys. So acro cats is a lot of rescues then?

Oh, yes, yes. They're all former orphans rescues.

And, man, it's almost like the bad news bears in a way. Huh.

You know, I.

That movie.

Yeah, I've seen it. It's been a long time.

Yeah.

So I kind of really remember the premise.

Yeah, I think it was just some of the. Some of them were kind of like. Yes, some of the kids were kind of like having a tough time. You know, it was like those type of kids. So how did you get started with acro cats? And what is acro cats, first of all?

So the amazing acro cats, they're a troop of former orphan rescues and strays that have come into my life over the years and I've trained them to do awesome things to show people that not only can cats be trained, but they should be trained so they travel around the country. We now tour in a large bus. We initially started out in a small ambulance and then slowly built up to this giant money pit of a bus.

Yeah, bussing is expensive.

Oh, so expensive.

So you guys were in an ambulance at one point?

I started things. I started my career, you know, with an ambulance back in the days when I was doing rats and wildlife education and all of that. So I've been working with animals since I was ten.

Okay, so you've been working with an animal since you was a child? Really? You was really just a child animal worker. And they. And so you get started, you said, with rats first.

I knew I wanted to be an animal trainer since I was seven.

Okay, so you knew out of the gate you wanted to be out there with them animals?

Yes.

And how did you know you'd be at a zoo or something would flare up in you when you would see an animal? Or how did you know that you loved them?

Well, my parents did a letter every year. Like those annoying Christmas letters that people send out detailing their whole year.

Oh, yeah. Like Patty got her menstrual cycle or whatever. Playing volleyball or whatever.

Yeah, yeah. So my parents did one every year.

Yeah, we got those in our neighborhood. Some of them were too much like, oh, yeah, one year they sent. It was like, Ron left us. If anybody's seen or whatever, call us. And we're like, this is for Christmas. Like, it was just. But some got a little invasive. But, um. Okay, sorry, I interrupted you.

Oh, no, yeah. But, but so looking back through all those, those Christmas letters, I. It talked about how I talked about wanting a cat. Wanting a cat. As soon as I was able to talk, I wanted a cat. And then I found a book that was like a book about me that I had filled out when I was seven. And it said, when I grow up, I want to be. And I put on. I filled in animal trainer or indian.

Oh, that's good.

Yeah. Yeah.

And that's kind of the same thing almost. Cause the Indians were so close to nature. Really, you know?

Yeah, yeah. It really is kind of similar path, I guess. Spiritual connection with animals.

Yeah. So you wanted to be really dialed in out of the gate?

Oh, yeah. I knew what I wanted to do right from the get go. They had a different plan for me.

What did they think they wanted?

I mean, they wanted the traditional. I mean, they sent me to college to get my. Mrs. They didn't care what I majored in.

Wanted to be a wife.

As long as I came home with a husband that had a good degree in a future, that's what they wanted. They did not anticipate me being an entrepreneur. I'm going to start a business with rats. And that's kind of how it got all started. Right after college, I moved to Chicago and I was like, I'm going to start a business with rats.

And what made you, did you see something? Did you, were you at a live event? Did you, were you at a christening or a. Were you at, like, you know, a performance of phantom of the opera? Or, like, what set made you think, okay, I'm gonna start doing a live performance at animals? Because that's a real. The only people that's ever done that is Noah, probably. Noah's ark and God, probably.

Yeah, yeah. Did you see.

Yeah. Did you see a performance? Did you see something that was like.

Yeah. Yes, actually, I watched a documentary on Moe de Seso, who was the rat trainer for the original Ben and Willard movies.

Okay, bring him up. Modus Esso. How do you spell it?

Moe de seso mode. Yeah. He was one of the original Hollywood animal trainers. He. He was my mentor he was my. I mean, and I saw this documentary that he did on the Discovery Channel back when they showed animal. You know, when they showed stuff like real things on Discovery Channel, and he was like, behind the scenes training of the rats for this movie. And I was like, yes, this is what I want to do with my life. I want to train animals for film and television. And I ended up getting to meet him.

Animal trainer Moe Deceso, who trained such notable animal stars as Ben the rat and Annie's dog Sandy, died July 2, new hall, California, was 83. He trained over 600 rats for the two rodent horror hits, winning a Patsy award for directing Ben the rat in Willard and another sequel for Ben. Wow. So he could really conduct a rat?

Oh, he could train any animal. He was just amazing. I was so thrilled because I ended up getting stranded in California. I was working on a rat documentary, and part of it was filmed in Los Angeles in the summer, and I got stuck there because of a heat embargo, so I couldn't get my rats back to Chicago.

So you're there. You're working on a rat documentary?

Yes.

Called.

It was called rat.

Okay, rat.

Yeah. Mark Lewis. It was. Mark Lewis kind of gave me my big break as far as working on documentaries and getting my first really big break as far as training rats. So it was so serendipitous how everything happened, really, you know, the whole life story from, you know, the rats to the cats. But. But I was out. I was working on the documentary for the other part of the documentary. We'd filmed the first part in New York, and then we finished it in Los Angeles. There's a heat, you know, during the summer, you cannot fly animals and cargo. So my rats were. And I were stuck in California. So I looked up mo de seso when I drove out to his ranch.

No.

And I introduced myself, and they welcomed me into their home. I stayed with them for about three weeks or so. I cleaned every inch of his place, his training room. I organized his training room. I just worked every day. They'd have to drag me in for meals. And then he worked with me every day with training. I learned so much from him. And when I left, he cried when I left. I was like the daughter that he'd always wanted. And in a way, he was the father that I wished I'd had, because my parents, they liked animals, but they weren't true animal lovers.

Yeah. They didn't love them like you did.

Yeah. I mean, I loved them right from the beginning. Just, I was drawn to them it was my life calling.

So you leave out of there, the documentary gets finished and now you're a rat trainer.

Yeah, I'm a rat trainer. And then I ended up being a chicken trainer after that because Mark Lewis did a film called the Natural History of chickens. He hired me again for that, to train the chickens and I didn't know anything about chickens when I took that job. Oh, yeah, you could, yeah, it was, I mean, back then, the Internet, there was just some yahoo groups and so, I mean, and he was a tough guy to work for, too. I mean, he, if you did, if things did not go right, he would just yell at you like two inches from your face.

I mean, just, he was intense.

Oh, he was so intense. And, I mean, I saw it, there were nights when I worked on the rat film that I cried every night. But it was, you know, he was so good. I mean, he really knew what he wanted.

What are you saying? Like, damn it, get these rats to do it or whatever.

Yeah, it was just, he was very hardcore and, you know, very few people survived working for a Mark Lewis film, but his film was, you know, won awards. When he asked me back to do the chicken, I didn't get yelled at the entire shoot. I mean, nobody could have a conversation with me during the chicken training portion because I was learning about chickens. There were so many things that could go wrong with this chicken training thing.

I'm sure even just the term chicken training sounds like it's not going to work out.

Oh, yeah. I had to have a white silky hen go broody, which means they lay on eggs. Right. And then once the chicken, once I found a chicken, they actually laid eggs because this broodiness has been bred out of them over the years because most people want them for food or just eggs.

Yeah. Oh, they want them to lay them every day.

Yeah, they don't want them to lay on them. So I had all these white silky chickens, found one that laid eggs and sat on them. So then I had to take the eggs and replace them with golf balls, keep the eggs safe, then transport that chicken to somewhere in the south. It was, I was somewhere in the, out in the country with these chicks, working on these chicken, with these chickens. So I got to get them on a flight, get them to the location and then put the eggs in an incubator. And on the exact day that he needed to shoot these chickens hatching, they had to hatch. So there's so many things that could have gone wrong.

Yeah, we were playing God at that point, in a way.

Yeah. It was so stressful. I had to train a rooster to crow on q, so. And I had no idea. I mean, I was really, you know, I was self taught. This is pre Internet. This is before you could look up all the things and just find answers. I mean, I was.

And what do you do? You don't, do you tickle them or whatever? What do you do to get a rooster to do it?

Well, you would find. You'd find out what would make them crow naturally. So they actually, they kind of trained me. So I'd have a rooster in downstairs with a baby monitor, so I'd be upstairs, and anytime I heard that rooster crow, I'd go running downstairs, and then I'd wave an american flag and click and treat and give the. You know, because I knew about clicker training at that point, so I would click and treat and give the rooster, you know, a reward for crowing. So I also. But I also knew that I needed to put it on a cue so that it couldn't just. We couldn't be waiting around for it to crow. I needed to signal right for it to crow.

So that's what the flag was for.

I'm waving the flag. It's still crowing. I'm waving the flag and clicking and treating and not really knowing what I'm doing, just hoping it's going to work.

Create a pattern.

Yeah. Yes, yes. And, you know, and people would be trying to talk to me, and I'd be like, what if I taught the chicken to follow a ribbon? And we could put that ribbon on the camera, and then the chicken would follow that camera everywhere because we need those camera, like, right now, right in the camera shots, and nobody could talk to me about anything because I was so hyper focused on making these chickens perfect for this. For this film. And, I mean, it. It was turned out beautifully. I mean, I couldn't believe how. How all my hard work paid off.

Wow.

Yeah. So it was. But I.

It's pretty remarkable.

Yeah. I mean, it really. Considering I didn't really know anything about chickens when I took the job.

Yeah. Yeah. And it seems like an insane job to take and do.

Oh, yeah.

And then to pull it off.

Yes. And to pull it off and not get screamed at once. Oh, yeah. That was. That was amazing. Wow.

So you got the rooster crowing. You got. You've. You're working with the chickens. So how do you then turn it over into acro. Rats? You started with?

Well, I started with the rats. Rats were first. So I had. After I met motives, so I had an idea that when I moved to Chicago, I had at this point, I've had rats since I was 16.

Okay, you've been a rat owner. You've been. You've had them. Yeah.

I knew how smart they were. I knew how. Just one of the most trainable smart animals ever. And they're also misunderstood. So I've always been drawn to those kind of social rejects of the animal world. The rats.

The underdogs.

The underdogs, exactly. The underdogs. So I started putting. I was like, I bet you I could put a little show together. I'm going to teach these rats to do tricks, and I'm going to put a little show together that'll get some attention to these rats, and then maybe I'll get that film that big, you know, break that. I want it. So I was working at a pet shop at the time and.

Where? In Chicago?

Yeah, in Chicago. I was at New Town Aquarium. And then the owner was a monster. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. He was. He was just the worst human ever.

Why was he even in the game?

Why was he even in the money? The money and in the pet money? Well, there was other things he was doing. He was getting fished and, you know, in from other countries. And there were more. There was more in with the fish.

Than, like, renaming them, not selling appropriately.

No, they were, you know, the fish that he was getting shipped in. There's white styrofoam on the bottom, right.

Oh, there was other things getting shipped as well.

He was shipping in under.

So it's probably a front.

Yeah, so it was a front. But he also was. His idea was like, if I get 100 of these, I get a huge discount. If I get 100 of these anoles, if I get 100 of these burmese pythons, and if they all die and I sell just one, I'll still make a profit. So you didn't care about the animals. So I came in and I, of course, cared about the animals. I'm working overtime. I'm taking the animals home and separating all the snakes and feeding them so they don't eat each other. And so I'm going to the library and researching on how to take care of these animals. So I was in charge of the rodents and the reptile section, and I was in charge.

And their arch nemesis is.

Aren't they? Well, yeah, yeah, there's. They. They are not friends. So the, you know, the rodents were downstairs, and then the reptiles are upstairs, and I. So I'm learning about them, you know, having to go to the library and creating these cage cards so that I. When people came in, I could. I could educate them on, like, okay, you're interested in buying this particular lizard? Well, this is what it needs to. What you need to take care of it. And it's going to need a heat, you know, heating light and a rock and all these various things. And so, so I did all my research, and. And I was really. I mean, I did love the job, but I just. He was just a monster.

Yeah.

And at that point, I had my little rat show trained up.

Oh, perfect. So you got the rats, you performing now?

But, yeah, they're performing in nightclubs and things like that.

Okay. Now, so that sounds like. Yeah, I would love to see that. And it's something that's important. The rats are performing in nightclubs. With you as the trainers or not? Okay. Yeah. So with you as a trainer, the rats are performing in nightclubs, and you guys are. How many rats are in the show?

Oh, there's probably maybe six. Six or seven rats. And they climb up ladders. They jump through hoops. They'd even bowl. And the best trick was they would run, they'd drive up into an ambulance, and then they would go up a fire truck into a burning little kid's house with fake flames, of course, and there'd be a doll in the house. So the rats would go up the ladder, rescue the doll, come back down and put it into the ambulance.

No way.

Yeah. So they were so much fun to teach and work with, and people were just amazed that these rats are doing these amazing tricks. So they're the amazing acro rats. And I had little business cards made up that said the rat company trained acro rats for all occasions, film, television, live shows. And I told everybody at work that someday somebody's going to walk in that door and they're going to need a rat for a movie, and I'm going to be ready for it. Right. Wow. Right.

So that was a lot of your ambitions. So you'd seen Mo Deceso have this, you'd seen that documentary, and then it had an effect on you, and then next year, you end up out there, you end up get to getting to work with him. So now you really feel like you're on the right path.

Yeah.

Okay, so you have the. You have the rat show going in Chicago.

Yeah. Yes.

And you're performing where you're performing after hours in the pet shop?

Yeah. No, I'm not in pets pet store, but I'm working. I'm like, after hours in nightclubs.

Okay.

I was taking the rats, and, you know, they'd hire me to bring the rats in, or actually, you know, I don't even know if I got really hired or so maybe it was just kind of a pass the hat kind of thing, because, you know, any opportunity I had to train these rats.

Yeah, but how do you even approach that? Because in the beginning, if you say, hey, I'm going to come in later, I'm going to bring in a couple rats, I think people are going to be like, I don't know, you know, or people like, how do you have that initial conversation with some of the performance venues and stuff?

Well, it was Chicago. Chicago was very, you know, kind of open minded. They. They liked anything, you know, interesting and different.

Yeah.

And I had. My roommate had connections with certain nightclubs at that point, so, you know, she hooked me up with some of the nightclub people, and then word spread that, you know, there's brat lady, but who.

Comes to the show? Is it just people that are at the nightclub? What? It's already staged performance at the nightclub, and it's like, now we're gonna have the acro. Rats.

Yeah. Now the acrobats are gonna perform, we're gonna do a couple shows, and, you know, it was just. It was just fun. It was basically, I'm just trying to get attention to these rats, hoping that I'm gonna get this break at some point so that I can get to the next level.

Okay. And so how does that start to happen? How does. Do you get a break?

That's. Well, the big break came in when I was in the pet. When I was working at the pet store, okay? Waiting with my little business card. You know, the Rat company. I named my company the Rat Company. Yeah, yeah. Trained rats for all occasions. Film, television, live shows. Waiting for that moment, that big break. And these two guys walk into the pet store, and they're like, we need a rat. We need a couple rats for film. And I'm like, I got your rats. I'll even. Thank. You. Can even answer a toy telephone. I'll do it for free, just for the movie credit. So I got the job because my price was great, and I. Because my boss was kind of a dream squasher. And with the movie industry, they don't give you a lot of notice. They call me on a Friday. They say, okay, your days on Monday.

That's so bus. Yeah.

Yep. So I asked for the day off, and they said, nope, sorry. And so then I quit my job. I quit my full time job for a one day non paying film shoot with rats, and it was. It was my big break.

It was.

Yeah, it was. I mean, everything happened after that WGN showed up.

Okay, so hold on. So let's. So you get the break. You go to the set, you do the shoot with the rats. And how did they pull it off?

Oh, I mean, they. The rats did perfectly. I went out to the. Yeah, I mean, I went out there the day. The day before practice with them and everything, rehearsed them, so I kind of knew what that. You know what?

So they talk them on the way in, like, look, guys, this is it. Like, do you feel like you have that, you know, that you can create that ambiance with them that you guys are.

Oh, yeah, yeah. We're just. I mean, there's like. It's really hard to.

Phil Jackson kind of with them, you know, it's.

There's this, like. It's like a. Almost like a. An electric field. So especially when you're working on a set with an animal and you can't be right next to them. So you've done your training. You've done your prep with the rat or any animal, right? And now you're off camera, and you have to send in the rat or whatever animal it is to do what you've trained them to do, and you are not. You can't be next to them. So there's this, like, electric field, like a communication going where I. You know, like, God, yeah. Just like, you've got this. You've got this, you've got this. Do this, do that, you know? And it. When it met, when it comes together, and it's such a magical moment when. And they just pull it off. I mean, the whole crew applauds. I mean, they just. Everybody was just amazed that this happened, right? And then a film crew showed up, you know, news crew, because they heard that there was gonna be a rat lady, you know, on the movie set. So they coined me the rat lady of Chicago.

Oh, God. Beautiful.

Yeah. So then CNN picked it up and broadcast this, you know, all over the country, and next thing you know, I'm flying to Italy to be on this show with the Mino D'Amato show on Christmas Eve with my trained rats, and it just snowballed from there. I mean.

So you flew over there for Christmas Eve.

Mm hmm.

To be on an italian television show.

Yes.

And how many rats do you have with you?

I had about six rats with me.

Oh, yeah. And then do you remember any of the names? You remember any of the.

How probably the Jasper and Ramsey and Cicero. And I named a lot of them. I started name them after streets in Chicago, so I had to. Cicero to Harlem. And. Yeah, Jasper and Ramsey came later on, but, yeah, so a lot of them were Chicago street, so gunshot would be one of them. Gunshots.

A cute name, actually. Wow. So you have these rats, and you guys are over there. Do you remember that? Was it Christmas Eve? What was it?

Yeah, it was Christmas Eve and a show called the meat of motto show, and they didn't give me an earpiece for translation. So the guy is like. And I'm like, no way. I don't know what you're saying.

You're just sitting there and the guy is speaking what?

You know, I'm in Italy.

So he's speaking Italian?

Yeah, he's speaking Italian. I don't know any italian. I'm like, I don't know what you're saying. When he realized that I didn't know, I didn't know what he. I didn't have my earpiece. So then he translated. Luckily, he knew. He knew Italian and English, so then he would repeat the question in English, and then I would answer, and then he would translate it back. So. So it was saved. But there was a deer in the headlights moment of like, oh, no.

Cause you're also a very attractive woman. And was there ever any of these guys trying to, like, hit on you? Was there, like, a lot of love interest going on?

Surprisingly, I did really well. And, you know, it is in spite of being the rat lady and having rats crawling all over me, much better than the cat thing or the cat thing was a real game killer. But the. But the. As the rat lady, I mean, I did get. You know, I did have a lot. I mean, I had stalkers.

Oh, really?

Yeah, they was crazy. Guy show up in a limo outside my house.

A rich stalker.

Yeah. Yeah, he was. Yeah, he was very young, and, yeah, apparently he had money, and he been, you know, like, just kind of an adoring fan and wanted to take me for a limo ride. And I'm like, well, I don't really know you, but you gotta go. Huh? Well, I sat and had a drink with him in the limo, so I'm like, I gotta let you drive off with me in this limo, but I'll sit down here with you for a bit. Because, I mean, after the whole, you know, WGN, Chicago, very own rat lady, and then CNN and then flying out to Italy, then. Didn't think. She just, like, snowballed. I was like, on all the big talk shows and Geraldo. Polly Shore. He had that series back then.

Yeah. Oh, Paulie's world, was it?

Yeah, it was a two part episode where I trapped him where I lock him in the room overnight with all the rats.

Really?

Yeah.

And was Paulie flirting with you? He likes the ladies.

You know, if he was, I wasn't picking up on it because I really wasn't even familiar with him. I didn't even know who this guy was. I'm like, why is he. Was he. What's his weasel thing he keeps talking about?

Yeah. Cause the weasel and the rats. That's really. Yeah, that's the same marsupials.

I think they're weasels. Well, rode rodentia. Yeah. I don't think weasels are rodents. They're weasels are more like the ferret group and rats and are rodents. So, yeah, I don't think the weasels and rats are really related, but they might be enemies, per se.

Yeah, I could see that. So things really start going. The rat game is good. You're out there and you're. And like, what's the show? How long is the show with the rats?

The show's like maybe 10, 12, 15 minutes or so.

God, so you're rushing it and. Are people paying you good money to come and perform?

No, not really. I mean, it was just. I mean, it was decent money then. I mean, it also was a nightclub. I got free drinks, so. And then whatever tips I might get, they might pay me a nominal fee. Cause I also, at that point, I had, you know, other animals. I had, you know, snakes. So they would hire me sometimes to walk around with a snake at a club and such. So, you know, the kind of, you know, back in the nineties. So you got paid a nominal amount and then free drink. So, yeah, it was, like, fun. And you're getting to, you know, meet all these interesting people and kind of get paid a little bit to do it and have fun and just kind of build a name.

Yeah.

And, you know, get known. I mean, I became. I was like the rat lady of Chicago. And it all stemmed from this whole idea that I had. And then the guys walking in that pet store, what are the chances of that happening? I'm there, I take. I get the movie job. I quit my job without hesitation, and bam. It just snowballs into all of these things.

Yeah. I mean, yeah. Look, if anybody knows the rat world, I know it and love it. You know, I know it and love it. I'm a rat and I'm a rat at heart. I got the heart of a large rat, probably. And that's normal, I think. So if you're selling something online, it's. Well, it can be hectic. I remember when we first started our online store. It was. It was. We were piecemealing it. We were trying to figure it out all ourselves, and it was. It was a nightmare. But things changed with Shopify. That's right. A lot of times, success with selling online comes by having a successful sales platform helping you. That's where Shopify comes in. Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. And then not so secret. Secret. With shop pay, that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout that allbirds, Alo and Skims uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period@shopify.com. theo t h e o. All lowercase. Just go to shopify.com theo, to upgrade your selling today.

Shopify.com theo. And how do you get into. Because now, I mean, what you've been most known for now would be the acrocats.

Yeah, now. And known for the acro cats.

But how do you get to that? How do you get from. I mean, from rats to cats? I mean, one could say it'd be easy to see how you would get there.

Well, cats are notoriously difficult to work with. I had experimented putting a cat in one of my shows early on.

Oh, with the rats?

Yeah, with the rats. I had it like, it was supposed to pull a sled, and the rats had little Santa hats on it, and the cat was, you know, gonna, you know, wear, like, antlers and pull the sled. It worked in. It worked perfectly. In rehearsal at home, everything was great. And then I tried it, you know, in a live atmosphere, and the cat was like, forget this. Just zips across the stage, and the rats are, like, popping out of the sleigh. You know, they're all.

Yeah, they're lost. Yeah, they're doing.

Yeah, they're just like, what's going on? You know? Yeah, things have changed.

Somebody called an audible. They're doing lines for Macbeth up there and shit.

Yeah. Cat abandons the sled. The rats crawl back in the sled and just sit there waiting for the, you know, what's next? That cat was crazy.

Yeah.

So I was like. So I didn't work with cats for a long time, but years later, I had been working as a wildlife educator, because at one point, I discovered I couldn't make a living on just rats. So I kind of expanded, and I was, I was working pretty steadily, teaching kids, you know, schools and libraries, all about wildlife.

And so at that point, you kind of given up on the rat.

Oh, no, still the rats.

Are you still doing.

Still doing the rats? I'm still numb. Still getting all the rat work. And I get, you know, I was getting any, like, music videos, any horror movies, anything that came into town that needed a trained rat.

Any rat work?

Any rat work? I'm getting the rat work.

You're the baby.

I am the one to come to for the rat.

Yeah. God, that's so good. And then what about. So you're getting the rat work. You're also realizing the. But this. But you also. But you start to realize that it's not enough income.

Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. And where are the rats living? The rats living with you?

Oh, always. All the animals always live with me all the time. Like, it's never been a separation of me and the animals.

And would y'all sleep in separate rooms or what's that? Like?

I had a rat room at one point. I was the landlord's worst nightmare, really. I mean. I mean, I just, those rats were, I mean, I had a whole room full of them just dedicated to the rats.

And would they get out sometimes?

I mean, they chewed. They chewed a hole in the screen of the apartment I was in. Like, I said, move every, like three or four.

Shawshank redemption. That's a. Yeah.

And I'm on a sidewalk and I'm looking up, you know, my second floor apartment, and I see rats on the ledge, and I was like, what's going, why are the rats out on the ledge? And I go upstairs and I'm like, oh, they chewed a hole through the screen, and they were climbing across the ledge and then hopping in the window to the rest of my house. So I'm like, oh, well, so, you know, I had to do some PaTcHworK and such, but, yeah, because they liked it.

Now, do you think that they didn't want to be a part of the show anymore or they like.

No, they were just being rats. I mean, they had a whole room. I wanted them to have freedom.

Oh, yeah.

And have, you know, because there were Ropes and LaddErs and all sorts of toys in there for them, so. But they're Also. Rats are going to do what rats do. They're rodents. They're going to chew.

Oh, yeah, rats going to do rats.

Yeah, yeah. And, yeah. So there, and there was a lot of them because you know, also, especially for Halloween, you know, that was a big hiring time for me with. With the rats and to be the, you know, the. I don't have the rat lady of, you know, haunted house and such, so. But, yeah, the rats and all the animals. I raised all my animals from babies, and they were part of my daily life. I took them everywhere with me, and I'm their mom. You have to, especially if you're working with any AnImal in any Kind of public setting, you need to acclimate them to that early on. And it's a lot of work and dedication to be carting around. I'd be walking down the street. I'd be pushing a stroller or carrying a carrier full of rats. People be like. They'd have this look on their face, like, oh, I get to see what's in the carrier. And then I just see their face drop when they'd see that it was rats. And they were like, the Color drains out of their face and they can't handle it. Yeah, yeah. They're like, oh, but see.

Cause the rats are just misunderstood. But they're such wonderful pets, and I turned so many people into rat lovers. I convinced Parents to get your child a rat, not a hamster. They're just misunderstood. It's just the name. But they're the best. They won't ever bite your child. You can teach them names. You can teach them tricks. They are affectionate. They're the best pet that you can buy for a child. You know, it was. It was. So I turned a lot of people into rap lovers.

Well, we said one of my first jobs was selling hamsters when I was growing up, we used to sell them outside of raves and concerts. And I grew up in a hamster breeding area. And so you'd see a lot of rodentia, small rodentia, small ground game. The Roborovsky's were the ones that were sold then. I don't know if you're familiar with that strand of them, but that was the, like, kind of the popular strand of hamp that was going on in our area. Bring it up, the Roborovskys, if you can, there, Ben, if you don't mind. Yeah, this is the dwarf hamsters. These are a lot of what we were peddling back in the day.

Oh, yeah. No, I had. I had hamsters growing up, too.

Beautiful. And a lot of that market went to Russia eventually, or they started getting these russian imported hamsters, and that, for a while, that killed a lot of the, like. They started getting more like the red eyed, the small, white, red eyed hamsters. Still cute, but not what a lot of kids were looking for, really. And that really, I think a lot had to do with, like, a lot of that Stephen King kind of when he, you know, when that kind of stuff took off. But, um. So you really were like a mother to a lot of these rats?

Oh, yeah. I mean, I, you know, hand raised them all.

And do you ever get any issues with the actual mother of the rats? Was there ever any moments where you had to be, like. Like, let them know that it was a shared territory or that you were just there to help?

I mean, I didn't, like, take the rats away from their mother prematurely, but as soon as they were weaned, I mean, the mom rats isn't really, like, these are my children. I want to take care of them.

Oh, she's not.

Yeah, no, they're like, go, I'm tired of you all. So, you know, once they're weaned, you know, then I would start, you know, I'd carry them around in my pocket or, you know, on my shoulder, maybe in my hair. Just. I came around everywhere.

That's beautiful.

They were, you know, they were like, you know, part, you know, part of me, and they were very comfortable, you know, to be held and to be on me. They'd be on, you know, my shoulder. They'd go to someone else's shoulder, back to my shoulder. You're very personable. They've got such great personalities. They're just misunderstood. So you say.

I've heard you say that. Misunderstood. Yeah. And look, baby girl, I think it's beautiful that you love these animals so much. I think it's just important to find something to love, you know? And. Yeah. What's so misunderstood about them? Do you feel like, well, they just.

Have a bad reputation.

How did they get it, though?

Well, I mean, they started it. Yeah, they did. But, I mean, well, the whole I love the plague didn't help the play. Yeah, that didn't help. And then, of course, they always play villains in the movies so that, you know.

Right.

You know, the will of the band and the Willard movie, Chuck E. Cheese.

They tried to bring him back and give him a little bit of. That was kind of some good pr, I feel like.

Well, yeah, but it's still like, you know, just that we're rat. You know, Ratatouille helped some. Yeah, that did definitely did help. Help some. And people have. Are definitely. I mean, there's. Now there's a rat fancier. Yeah, there's a lot of people. There's a lot of rat ladies out there now.

Oh, I'm a damn rat king. I mean, art. Our tour is return of the rat tour.

Yeah.

That's our stand up comedy tour, is the return of the rat tour. And so I certainly get that some people don't understand the value of a rat.

Yeah, yeah. It's just, you know, the name rat. So sometimes I tell people it was african gerbil or a honduran hamster. Honduran long tailed hamster.

And that changes their attitude.

And then they're like, oh, okay. It's kind of cute. And then, like, two months later, I'd be like, it's actually a wrap. Then they're in love.

They're already in love.

Yeah. So.

Or one of these jamaican brands, ranch kittens or whatever. And you trick them or whatever.

And it's just.

Yeah. I'm like, yeah, it's just your buddy. It's your buddy Marvin or whatever. Or whatever.

Shalen ship them. I've had to transport them because I was flying out, you know, being flown to places in Los Angeles to do things. And so I'd have to bring, you know, get the rat, take the rats on the flight, and I'd have the health certificate say, you know, honduran long tailed hamster. Because if you got the wrong person and they saw rats, they don't want rats on their plane. Just put it on the, you know.

They don't want us anywhere.

And they'd be like, they look a lot like rats. And I'm like, yeah. Don't they? Yeah, they do a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very exotic cancer. That does look a bit like rats. Yeah.

And what was your life like personally at the time? Like, what was your. Were you married? Were you single?

Never married.

Never married?

No, no. When you know what you want to do when you're seven years old and it was my life dream, you can't, like, I mean, marriage is a job. I mean, I mean, it's all fun and romance in the beginning, but if you actually sign the paper and you have a partnership with somebody now your actions affect them. And I wanted to be able to hop on a flight and take a job anywhere because I knew what I wanted to do at such a young age, and then my life decisions would be affecting another person if I got.

Married, and that's too much.

Yeah. And I wanted my freedom. I wanted freedom to pursue my passion, my dream. What I wanted to do since I was seven is to. So it was just not my parents. They were married for 54 years. Wonderful marriage. Like, literally, like, honey, I'm home. There was no arguing in the house. It was just like out of a movie. It was like Pleasantville. I always tell people I came from Pleasantville, but it seemed a little boring and stifling. And I wanted to. Adventure and excitement and go places and do things and train animals for film and television and, you know, I loved horror movies, so obviously rats were the way to go, and. Yeah. Just so I never. Yeah, I did not go to take the marriage route. Yeah.

Was there love at some point? And it was just. Did you ever date a man and they just couldn't accept the animalia that was in your life?

I mean, I've. You know, I've had. I've had great romances. I mean, I've had boyfriends throughout the years and, you know, wonderful love affairs and, you know, relationships that a lot of times it would. It would kind of. I'd kind of have to break up with them in the spring because it was baby season. So when baby season came around and I'm. And I'm bottle feeding, you know, animals, it's really hard to maintain the romantic relationship.

Yeah. It's hard to breastfeed a man if you're bottle feeding a man.

Like, I'm bottle feeding, you know, and I'm like, it's. Sorry. I mean, I gotta bottle feed these, you know, animals. Like, you. It, like, round the clock.

But that's an excuse. I think you hear a lot from women. They're like, oh, I have to wash my hair. I have to bottle feed these animals.

I have to bottle feed these animals.

I think that's something that sometimes you would hear a lot. Like, I've definitely heard that from girls before. I have to bottle feed these animals. We have to redo the stairs at my dad's house. Whatever.

I'm like, it's another excuse. Yeah, just, oh, yeah, definitely.

I'm getting my teeth remodeled or whatever. I'm like, you're lying to me.

I can show you the baby animals. I'm bottle feeding. And there were some that actually wanted to participate and, you know, so, I mean, I've had boyfriends and relationships throughout the years. It's. But I just. I just never wanted to. You know, I've even had the marriage proposals. Like, they want.

Really?

They want it? Yeah. They wanted to marry me because I'm a real. I'm actually really great girlfriend and, you know, I bet you are. I'm loyal and driven and creative. And, you know, but I still have a fun side and, and I'm smart and, you know, I'm just like, there's a lot of. A lot of things, but I'm not. I don't want to do dishes and I don't want to do that whole housewife stuff.

Right. You don't want to be a housewife?

I don't want to be a housewife. And so many, you know.

You want to be Tarzan's wife?

Kind of just. Yeah, I just want to have. Yeah, I don't want to. But so many, that's the end game is just like, it's got to lead somewhere. So it's not going to lead to marriage and you doing my laundry.

Right. I want to be able to have my own freedom. I want to do. I want to live my life the way I want to live it? No, I certainly understand that. I mean, I understand that 100%. I didn't. For years, I didn't when people were married, I was like, what do you even mean you're married? That seems crazy to me. But, like, it took me a long time to even consider being married one day for so long, I was just so, again, not against it, but I just wanted to live. I wanted to be free.

Yeah.

And see who I was or who I was without also affecting somebody else, you know, too heavily. Yeah. But then, even in relationships, I haven't done the best job of being a relationship man. I want to get into the cats, you know? I'm glad that you talked about the rats because, you know, rats are near and dear to my heart in the sense of being that underdog, being that animal that doesn't get looked at twice sometimes, you know, or people would rather look at it almost disapprovingly before they even give it a chance to look at it even just with a look of possibility. Right. Rats don't really get that very much. Now, how do you get to the cats? How do you start catting around? And just so we know, so we're talking a regular sized cat. How tall is it again?

Now, if we had one of them in here, you'd be able to see.

How tall is a cat? Can you pull.

Look that up?

How tall is a regular cat?

I mean, it would be about.

Oh, 9.1 to 9.8 inches. Wow. Okay, so, yeah, about ten inch cat.

Yeah, yeah.

So a ten inches in height. Okay. How do you get into cats? How do we get to acro cats? How do we get to. Because I'll tell you what happened for me, Washington. My ex girlfriend loved cats, and she had two cats, and. And I didn't. I was always. I've always been skeptical of cats, to be honest with you. I've been skeptical of a lot of stuff, and cats was one of those things. And, yeah, my stepdad would always even say stuff, like, he would call the cat's name sometimes, like, even in the neighborhood, or he'd call them, like, homosexuals or whatever, just say, you know, just stuff you say to cats or whatever. And so I was always like, oh, man, I don't know if cats are okay or not. And. And then my ex girlfriend had two cats. She loved them, and she has been to your show before. Oh, and she loved it. And so she was telling me about it one time, and it just blew my mind. I was like, there's somebody just carting cats around and just. And the cats are doing shows and performing and putting on shows, and it just.

I mean, it just shook me to my. The core of my curiosity, you know?

Where'd she see the show?

I want to say she saw it in Portland, Oregon.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've not been able to make it back out.

This was years ago.

Yeah. We've post Covid. It's. You know, we've had been a lot of struggles getting things back, but we have not been able to get all the way back out to Oregon yet. But we always did love going to the west coast.

Yeah.

Before everything fell apart.

What fell apart?

There was a series of things. Well, I got diagnosed with cancer.

Oh, you did?

Yeah.

Very sorry to hear that.

But I was cured. I went through treatment, was cured.

Oh, I'm happy to hear that.

So I had. So I took one year off to get my health back, and then the next year, I was immediately back out on tour. Did a nine month tour with the cat, with the cats, and. Right. You know, at the end of that tour, a driver that we had had for four or five years scammed me and tried to basically steal the bus. So it just wiped us out financially. And just as we were trying to explore the options of trying to bring justice to what has happened. Covid hits so, you know, we. It was just bam, bam, bam, man. Yeah. So. And then because the bus sat for two years without being able to tour, when we finally got it back, and then we had to undo all the damage that this guy had done because he was. He was supposed to be converting another bus first because he said, this bus is no good. It's dangerous to drive. We'll get it. We'll get. Find a shell of a bus, and then I'll transfer everything over to the, you know, that's usable. He was like, all. It was all alive. All alive. In the meantime, he was just retrofitting my bus.

That was actually perfectly fine. There's issues with it, but it was not a death trap like he said it was. He stripped the wrap off of it because it was covered with cats. It was gorgeous. Wrap. Stripped the wrap off of it. He tore out the interior, took out all the cat, you know, catification. The kitten city area he just demolished. And he was putting a bedroom in the back. I mean, he just. I guess he was going to flip it. And I don't know how. I don't know how his end game was going to work because I still had the title. I just paid the thing off and we'd raised it. It's not like I bought. We got it through a Kickstarter. So the fans donated money to get this bus. It's not like you can go out, buy another bus.

And why did he do this so much? Was he just a driver?

He was kind of a pathological liar. And he was young, which made prosecution really difficult because he. Small town. The sheriff. Family has a sheriff in the pocket.

What do you mean? Ricky did that?

Yeah, it seems like a he said, she said kind of thing. And I mean, that sheriff just questioned me like I was the bad one. And pretty much because he doesn't have assets. No lawyer. Yeah, yeah. The law there. It's like. I mean, it's not about the money. It's about justice. He committed a felony. You know.

What a piece of shit.

I mean, he just decimated me to my core. I mean, I'll never. I mean, I had. I had dreams of doing so much more as far as, like, good work. I mean, I could be one of. I could have been one of those people out in crisis situations like Katrina, rescuing animals, because we were in a really good place at that point before the scam happened and, you know, and that setback. And then we've just had to put more. So much money into the bus to get it back to its original shape. And then everything's dry rot. Having to sit for so long while Covid was going on because of travel. And we're still sinking right now. It's sitting in a shop in Iowa. And they were supposed to be fixing this light up. And they're like, they decided, well, we're not going to be able to get to it. We thought it was going to be this. That this would fix it, but it didn't. And now we have other jobs that are more important than you, so we basically get the bus back and it's not fixed. And Iowa is the only place that can fix this issue.

So once again, it just hit again. Hit hard with nothing, with it not being repaired, having to spend, you know, this money.

Bad luck and bad actors.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just are not being helpful. And it's especially, you know, as female, too. It's a struggle to get, you know, respect as a. To get things done. As a woman, I resort to having a guy make that call.

Yeah.

Because I can't get anything done.

Yeah. So that's unfortunate.

Yeah.

I'm sorry that that happens.

Yeah, it was. So it was. Was definitely rough times. And we're just finally getting, you know, getting things rolling again and. And it's just hard to find help post Covid. Nobody wants to work, nobody wants to travel. It's hard to find, you know, girls that. Whose boyfriends will let them go on the road.

It's bizarre.

You know, there's that double standard. Guys can tour, girls can't. Yeah.

Yeah. And we need more women out there entertaining everybody. It's important. So how do we get from rats to cats? Take me some of that journey.

So. So I was, you know, the rats. I had to. I do. I realized I couldn't make a living on just rats, so I became the rat company and friends, and then I ended up changing the name to amazing animals. And I was doing the wildlife shows, so I was doing. Doing those.

And was that a traveling show as well?

No, no, it was. Well, it's kind of traveling, but it was going to school, schools and stuff like that.

But it wasn't like the tour wasn't.

Touring yet, so I. I fell in love with touring, like, way, like, way later on, and that's kind of when the cats came into play. So I was doing the wildlife shows and libraries and schools, educating kids, but my really, you know, my heart and soul was I wanted to. Still wanted to train animals for film and television, so I realized you wanted to show animals.

You wanted.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just was, like, always what I wanted to do is see my, you know, and. And see my cats in a commercial or see my animals in a commercial.

Yeah.

So there's, you know, there's a. You know, there's not so much. Much rat work out there. There's not a whole lot. So I thought, well, maybe I should, you know, there's a lot of dog trainers out there, the rats, you know, have kind of met their limit. You know, let's revisit the cat. I know we had that one experience where there was. I was like, there's got to be a way to work these cats.

So you still want to do animals for film and television, and you decide you're going to give cats another shot.

Yeah, let's give cats another shot. Because I always loved, always loved cats. But I know they're. They are difficult to work with. It is a. It is. They're small, so there's a lot of predators out there. So they're a little bit like, what could get me? What could get me? So I had no idea. I needed to figure out how to make this work. And so I thought, what if I did what I did all those years ago with the rats and try that with the cats, put a little show together and start taking it around to, like, low key, no pressure, not charging money, just passing the hat. Art started in art galleries. So I basically, like, I'm gonna let the cats teach me how to teach them. So.

Okay. And so do you set up something kind of at home? Do you audition some cats? Like, how do you.

So I had this cat, tuna, that had come into my life that was brilliant. I mean, she was very focused, wanted to learn. I had learned clicker training, a lot more about clicker training at this point. So I was. I actually started with tuna. Tuna was the inspiration behind the whole thing. I was taking her to pet expos? Just kind of showing off what she could do, you know, and I'd have her ring a bell and tap a tip jar at a rescue table, and then I donate, you know, donate, whatever. She got into the rescue, and so I was just taking her everywhere. I was taking her to the film festival and having her play a guitar, ring a bell and do some things, trying to get her some work there. And I thought, well, let's, you know, try putting a show together. And so I found an art gallery that was looking for some kind of entertainment, and the band I had put together already at that point, and that was pretty solid.

The band, what do you mean?

The rock cats. So we had the. We had a guitar, drums, and piano.

And these are cats performing?

Yeah. So the band actually came first, and.

What cats were in it? Tuna's in it.

Tuna. Tuna played the cowbell, but that came later. Okay, so she was the donation collector for the band.

Okay, so she's really. Yes. She's out there in the bucks. Yeah.

She's the one you know, like, hey, better put some money in this tip jar.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you gotta have that.

And the band had a, had a curtain, said the rock hats. They had their own table, and their instruments had their scent on it. So. So they. The cat. The band. The cat band seemed to work. Now, the rest of the act, I mean, I went to Home Depot. I got a couple ladders and big rope, and then, you know, some. I tied weights to the ladders to keep them from folding in. And I found some. Some stools at Ikea. My initial setup was very crude. Just whatever could, you know, a lot of, like, dog agility props. Small dog agility props. So then I find an art gallery. I'd set everything up. And the cats, I mean, it was just. The cats would come out. They'd, like, look around and stretch, groom a little bit. And, you know, it's kind of just an utter fail. I mean, there's a lot of fails, right?

They wouldn't. They wouldn't perform. Was it stage fright or was it anger? Do they hate?

They didn't. This is all. This is new to them. This is new to me.

Yeah. They don't even know that they're a show cat yet.

Yeah. So, so I'm, like, trying to figure out, okay, what do you need to make you comfortable? So I started bringing my own floor, like a roll out floor. So they brought a floor that had their scent on it, and I realized that they're always doing this, like, okay. I go, okay. They don't like knowing what's behind, not what is behind them. They need to know what's behind them. So then I put up a backdrop behind them. So now they have a solid back wall behind them. They have a floor that they're familiar with the scent of. And I've been working them at home, and now I'm bringing them into this new environment. Tuna's pretty solid. She'll do her trick. She'll ring her bell. She'll do the various things. The other cats, she's your go to. You know, she's the go to. Now, the other cats are a little bit, you know, hesitant. They're a little slow, but they're doing it. But they're doing it. But they're doing it at their own pace. So then I would just have to come up with funny things to say while we're waiting for the cats to maybe do something or maybe not do something.

So you had to be the performer at that point?

Oh, yeah. I mean, I've consistently had to be the performer because those cats are mixing it up every show. I never know what's gonna happen or not happen. And because it's. I have a.

Well, because they're damn cats.

Well, the cat will also, because I have a personal relationship with the cats. They're not just kenneled with, only where they just come out during training, and then they're back to the kennels. I mean, I watch television with these cats. I sleep with these cats, you know, like, I spend. I take them on road trips. You know, we're.

So cats would sometimes sleep in your bed?

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, especially if it's a little cold, you know, pile on more cats. Yeah.

Oh, unlimited cats.

Yeah, exactly. The purr is so comforting. I mean, just. I love. I love them so. They're my babies. I've raised some of them from two days old, and I bought feed, so, you know, saved hundreds of kittens with bottle feeding because that's, like, one of my. Turned out to be. One of my superpowers is to be able to save little babies. And so, like, little by little, the cats taught me what they needed to feel comfortable, you know, on stage. And the. They started to, you know, the applause. There's something called, like, a secondary reinforcer. So there's a primary reinforcer, which is the food. Click equals treat. They hear. They click, they get a treat.

Right?

So then the applause actually starts and laughter also becomes a secondary reinforcer. So they're like, oh, if we hear applause or laughter, we're also. That means we're doing good. We're going to get a treat. And so, of course, they'll take advantage of and do things just to get that laughter, which really. Which ends up kind of paying off in the show because people just find it hysterical as Kat comes out, doesn't sometimes they just leave the stage and sit out in the crowd the whole time, come back, sit on a screen.

It's like Kodak black or something.

Yeah. They decide what they want to do, when they want to do it, if they want to do it, and I just kind of follow helplessly along and come up with some witty banner to cover their slowness and their fail moments. And, you know, it's kind of like my story as well, and how each of these cats came into my life, their story, how they came in, you know, how they came to be, what their special skills are, what just, you know, I see.

So a lot of it is not as much. There's certainly some training of the actual cats.

Yes.

But there's also you training yourself just to understand that these are cats. And I need to try and just make it as comfortable environment for them to be here. And then I need to train myself how to react if they don't react.

Yes.

Or how to react to whatever they're doing.

Yeah. And they're interesting. So they improv. Oh, it is improv. It's totally improv. Yes. And they come out. We have carriers, if they're in, and when they come out of their carrier, the doors are of. The carriers are open. The carriers are. There are a safe place for them. It's like a portable.

It's like a green room.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, like, they know that that's a safe place. All of my cats are whistle trained to go to a carrier, which is great for emergency situations. If you need to call your cats quickly and get them out of the house, because if there's a fire or some disaster. Oh, yeah, you can blow a whistle. And the cats come running. They go in the carrier. They're used to traveling, so if they're not feeling it or they're having an uncomfortable moment and they're not liking the person in the front row that has big hair, which I'm always picking up on. I'm always watching the cats. I'm watching the audience. I'm watching, like, just constantly reading and communicating with these cats while doing the show and making mental notes about, okay, you know, wiki does not like people with big hair. And front row, they do not like wheels rolling by. That's the, you know, that's babies crying. Everything stops when the baby's crying. So it's. There's a lot of challenges, but if they don't feel like coming or if they have a moment, they're like, I need to. I'm gonna. I'm gonna go back to the carrier.

They can do that. So they're, they. That is their safe. That's their safe. You know, it's like a portable base camp for them. So when I. When I take them out for, like, outings or camping, you know, I have a harness on them, and then I also have a backpack.

So. Wait, camping, is that part of the show? Is that.

No, that's just for fun.

Okay. You guys will go camping?

Oh, yeah. Because when I. When I'm raising new kids and to, you know, do a field trip or something. Yeah. To adopt out or to be in the show, you know, I want to bomb proof them so that they're comfortable in any atmosphere, because the way the world is today, disaster could be around any corner. And these cats need to be able to be comfortable being transferred to other areas and, you know, loud noises. So I always, you know, have clicker and so clicker. And anytime they're freaked out by something, especially there's a window of time with kids where they, they adapt really quickly. Like, they may hear thunder and be like, right. And then I click and treat during that moment, and I turn that bad experience into a good experience. Now, next time it thunders, they're like, oh, well, that's nothing at it. Where's my tree? Yeah. So even fireworks and such, I mean, I click and treat during my. Cats are not bothered by fireworks because.

They'Ve all.

Whenever fireworks have been around, I had the clicker and the treats out and click and treat and click and treat. So anything that they found distressing. And I've learned more and more over the years since I've been doing this, because I put it together in, like, 2005. And over the years, I've gotten better at reading the cats, knowing what they need. I don't need the floor anymore for them. We still have the back. We still have a solid back wall, but they're, they're, they're just, you know, they've just gotten better.

I mean, are cats trustworthy? That's what I wear. I mean, are cats trustworthy?

Oh, no. My goodness. I mean, we have the treats and.

I knew it.

I knew it. We have cups of treats, and various cats have their favorite treats. Some cats have allergies, so we have to have turkey. For the cats that have allergies, we have to have the primo treats for cats like Osty, who's, who's a season pro and is, you know, is literally, we negotiate when it comes to her pole climb and jump to my back trick. Like, there's a negotiation that happens every time. She's like, what do you got?

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Who's in the show? What are some of the big, like, tuna was obviously tuna still in the show?

Well, the original tuna passed away to cancer.

Oh.

So I.

And how did you guys do that? Did you guys, would you guys have a ceremony or anything like that?

Well, I mean it by then, because I've, I've, you know, I've been Tribune traveling.

I real on the road when it happened.

It happened during, you know, like, right after, right after tour. So I had, like, one last round of shows with her, and then I knew that it was going to be time. So it was after our show. Every year we go to New Orleans for Christmas. So that was kind of her last time. And so I got, you know, so we had January and February off, so I got to spend time with her. And, you know, and a fan, you know, I had to let the fans know that this was going on. And because these people have supported us through years, through all the disasters, all the crises, you know, the fans of have been helping us through. And so they know, the cats. It's not like the days of Lassie were bringing in another lassie. I couldn't just be like, bring in another tuna. But I did. You know, I brought the, I let the fans know that tuna's passing, and we, I had five white cats that came in to audition to take her place. And Tuna helped train, you know, the training process kind of helped, you know, pick the proteges. And, of course, nobody could.

Tuna was just brilliant. There's. So now we have two tunas that took the place of the original tuna and one of them's ahi tuna and one's albacore tuna.

Oh, okay. So you still have some tunas, but it's different now.

Yes.

And the original tuna helped choose these ones.

Yes. So there's pictures of, you know, the original tuna next to ahi tuna and alba, you know, they're both ringing bells. And so it kind of made everybody part of the process. And everyone, you know, everyone grieved together for the loss. Embrace the new tunas. So, you know, I keep people, you know, involved. Yeah.

Because it's a family people love. I mean, my ex girlfriend is a cat lover. She loved her cats, you know, she loved them. She was a good cat mom and she loved them. And she. I was amazed. It was one thing that even just showed me how good she was at loving people was just, you know, how much she could love a cat and really, you know, think about a cat. Did you guys baritune anywhere special or how did that go down?

We cremated her. So I have like a whole little glass area with the various, you know, Pinky was the first to go. She was my.

Pinky was on the. She was a guitar player.

My best guitar player ever. And then tuna. Then, you know, when we lost. The pandemic was really tough on the cats because they're used to. That's so much stimulus. They love working. I mean, if the cats aren't working, their health, just like with people, if you. If a person quits, no purpose, you know, no purpose. If they lose their purpose in life, then they kind of. Their health and mental health is affected. So, you know, we lost a couple cats during that Covid time. And I just lost 217 year old cats that had been from the beginning. They were my. From the very beginning, when I first started training cats, they were there with me. And then to lose them within four months of each other.

And who were their names?

That was Oz and Newey and Oz.

Is that Middle Eastern?

Well, I was watching Oz, that series, Oz with the Oswald State Penitentiary. I was bottle feeding Eddie and Oz. And it would take one episode per kitten per feeding. So I chewed through that entire series. And so that's how Oz got his name from you. From Oz. And he had a little bit of a. Every once in a while, he would just go get crazy and beat up an orange cat just out of nowhere.

Very prison like behavior.

Yeah, I think it's because he was listening to all that violence in the background. I should have chosen some more friendly programming for him to listen to because he definitely had a temper. I was just like, oz, you're the sweetest cat we have. What's going on? Why are you acting out like this?

He's got a dark side.

Yeah, he had a very dark side. But everybody loved. I mean, he was. I mean, he didn't do much. He was not the brightest one, but everybody loved him so much. We came up with tricks that he could do. They were kind of fake tricks in the show, and, you know, like he jumped through a tissue paper hoop, but, you know, it was only this far, and he'd basically tear open the tissue paper and walk through to the other side, and it was just so endearing. People loved that.

Oh, magical.

Yeah.

God damn, I love seeing cats do something if it's good.

Oh, yeah. We knew he was number one in the end. Towards the end, she. She was brilliant. She could do a lot. She was one of my best film cats, too, but she would. At the end, she was like, I'm gonna raise my. I'm gonna do the one thing. Who's number one? Raise my paw, and then I'm gonna play the piano, and that's it.

That's it.

That's all I'm gonna do. And I was like, all right.

A lot of seniors get like that. They got one, you know, they do their last trick, or they'll, you know.

Yeah.

You know, and then they'll just want to have a little bit of dessert and go to bed early or whatever.

Oh, yeah. She was such a cranky cat. She used to lay on my chest and growl and purr at the same time. I mean, just. That was so tough losing her because she was my baby and, like, oz loved everybody, but knew he loved me, and so that it was really rough to, you know, when you have to make that decision to let him go. And so now I have, you know, the youngest cat right now is two. Two years. And. But we're auditioning because we just had to retire two of our other seniors, so we're auditioning new cats for the show.

Okay.

So we have two potentials. We actually brought two of them. Two that were. That we think are good. Acro cat potential. One's named crush because she was the only survivor in a salvage lot in a car that was about to be crushed. Oh, so we got to her in the pretty cool name. Yeah, it really is a, you know, great name. And she's. She is just so. I mean, one training session, she's already hopping on the skateboard. Like, I'm ready to.

She.

Ready to rock, ready to. Ready to do this.

And can you tell cats that want to be in the show and cats that don't? Is that something?

Well, it's. It's hard to know. Females generally work better. Like, all the females have had a better work ethic than the males. The males are a little bit more like, why don't we just, you know, hang out and watch tv and. Yeah, like, you know, do I really? Like, Alba Cortuna is, you know, he's like, he plays the cowbell and he'll like, hit it once, and I'm like, come on. Like, how about. How about three? And he's like, one, two, three. So, I mean, they do. They do understand.

Well, a lot of people don't want to work anymore. I think it's a problem that we've had across the animal kingdom and the human kingdom.

Oh, yeah.

A lot of the work ethic is disappearing. How did the touring start?

So I had just come back from a thing called a festival of cultures, where I was doing a wildlife program, but it was touring, so we were touring with five other groups. Polynesian paradise, Africa, the european, where they did sword fighting.

Are these all animal shows or just different variety shows? No.

So it was an educational tour, so they basically were educating people about this culture. Got it. And some of it was more fun. Like Europe, they did sword fighting, and Native America, that was a little bit more educational. And then I represented wildlife of the world. So my little segment would be bringing out various animals and doing my wildlife presentation to teach people these various animals from these parts of the world. And that's when I fell in love with touring, and that's when I was traveling in an ambulance.

Initially, you guys got an old ambulance and turned it into the acro cats.

Well, I turned. That was for the wildlife of the world. And then I got a small rv after that. So that last year, I had the band together, and I set it up on the kitchen table in this rv that we had. And so people would be walking by the rv, and I'd be like, hey, you want to see something cool? And I open up the rv door. You know, the cat band would play, and they're like, what?

It's something perverted.

Yeah, I don't know. What is he, something short? Yeah, that's what I knew that maybe I could do something with these cats. And when I got back and I knew that wildlife, they weren't going to be including us in the next round of tours. And at this point, I would fall in love with touring and traveling.

What did you like about it? Oh, just seeing things you get to.

See, you know, because we try to stay in places for, you know, we don't tour like a band does, where you're like, one off, one off, one off. That's how. What fun is that? So, but if we stay in a place for, like, three weeks, you get to know people. I mean, I have. I. We go to New Orleans for, like, almost a month, every December. So I have friends there. I mean, I get to enjoy. I get to enjoy that city. You know, I get San Diego. Beautiful weather right by the oceans, the sea lions, all the things that you can see in these other cities that are all. We're going to the east coast this year, so, you know, Portland, Maine, absolutely love it right there. But we're performing so close to the ocean, and you get to meet, you know, you get to meet people and get to know people, and you just see, you know, I love roadside attractions. I mean, I'm a sucker for, like, biggest ball of twine. Next exit. Pull off now. Yes, I'm totally seeing that.

Yeah, we had a carnival worker in, and he. His, um, great grandfather had three legs, and he was in one of the original, like, dime show, like one of the side shows, like, back in, like, vaudeville days. Almost right there. Franklin teeny. That's him. And he had three legs, and we had his great grandson in.

I saw his segment. I watched because I was, like, pretty cool. Yeah, yeah. He seemed interesting because I've always loved. I always loved carnivals when I was that whole lifestyle since I was young, when I read that, the book, the boxcar children, and I stare at those freight trains, and I just wanted so badly to hop on one and just go. Because, I mean, my parents, I was their girl, I was their daughter, they kept me on a pretty short leash, so I was not allowed to roam the country or the neighborhood.

You wanted to get off leash fully.

I wanted to get off leash fully. Exactly. And just see things and experience life and all the oh nos. And all the oh, yeas. So, because it's. There's been a lot of. I mean, I've learned so much on the road. Like, they gave me no instructions when I bought my first rv. They just handed me the keys, drove off the lot, and I popped all the tires within the first six months because it was stored outside and the tires were raw tires. Yeah, they had no instructions at all. So then good Sam dumped me, so I didn't have that kind of, you know, roadside assistance anymore.

And so this is when you're on the. So you start the tour?

Yes, you start the tour.

You started in an I.

So, yeah, we started. We got. We had an rv and.

Is it acro cats? That's the name of the time.

Yeah, there was amazing acro cats. And we did our first, you know, we did our first, like, real show was, like, in 2006 at a. At a little place called the reversible Eye and that was actually one of the more successful shows at that point. I was like, okay, I'm finally doing, I've got enough put together that I can pull off a show.

Where was this?

It was in Chicago.

Okay. And you have all the cats you want. How many cats are I the show at this point?

I think there was maybe six, six, seven cats in the show.

Okay. Was there ever a cat you wanted to get? You just couldn't get the contract writer or the deal writer with him or whatever.

Like, it's, well, there's, 2009 is kind of when things really shifted. Shifted from, you know, because my initial goal was to get the cat's attention for film and television work.

Right. You still just try. Yeah. You still.

Yeah, I'm still trying to, to get them film and television work. Right. But it was working. It started, you know, I mean, my cat, Bowie, is on a blue Buffalo tastefuls commercial. He rocks it off.

Really?

Oh, yeah. He nails every shot. He's perfect. Looks in the camera. He's fantastic. I mean, he's a poster child. He's, he's on the stores of the, you know, when I go down the pets in the pet store, I'm like, there he is on all the food packages, and that's my boy, you know, it's like, yeah, he's killing, he's so great and he swaggers. He's got such a swagger. So. But initially that's, you know, I started it to do that, but then 2009 is when things shifted because I wanted to add another cat to the show.

Okay. And at this point, why, why do you, is this show faltering or are you just not.

Well, a lot of the cats, like, you know, they start out strong. They're doing eight tricks, and the second, you know, they're going, you know, middle of the first year, you know, between the year one and two, they're like, yeah, so we're only going to do these tricks. These two tricks. I'm just going to, I just want to do these two tricks.

Oh, they get an ego.

So, yeah, so they're, so they renegotiate their contract. And I'm like, I'm only going to do these two tricks. I'm like, well, who's going to do these tricks?

And they don't care.

They don't care. Not my problem. So then I'm like, well, I need to add another cat to the show. We need someone, you know, and I'm like, well, I really want it to be a rescue cat, but I don't want just pick one and be. What if it's not, like, the right one and I can't just return it because, well, this one's dumb. I can't do that. So I thought, well, why don't I foster a litter and then I'll train them all, pick the best one and then find the rest of them home. That was my plan. And then I found a rescue that were desperate for foster, so they snatched me up immediately because there was a dire need for fosters, and they sent me into the trenches. I mean, I had no knowledge, no, I had no idea what I was getting into. So they send me to a shelter that's basically an intake facility, not open to the public. People dump off animals there. They send me the kitten room and they say, so whoever you don't. Whoever you don't pick from this room today is going to be euthanized. Twelve kittens in that room.

This is a japanese game show?

No, no, it's. It was a. Yeah, I was just. But no, that says it could be a japanese game show. Probably. It probably is a japanese game show, actually, was with squid game out there and whatnot. I could see that.

You walk into a room.

I walk into a room, like, where we don't pick. We're gonna euthanize. I'm like, what? So I was like, I'll take them all. Give them all.

So you left out of there that day with how many cats?

Twelve kittens. I take them home. They have respiratory issues.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make that sound.

They all have respiratory issues. I didn't know. All my cats get sick and I'm medicating, like, you know, 20 some cats, right? I get everybody healthy. I train everybody up. And that was a really, like, you know that there's a pet overpopulation problem. You know that there's a problem. But until you're thrown into a situation like that where you're actually told, these kittens are gonna die today, because, no, there's no home for them. You see people dumping off their cats on a regular basis, just leaving them behind, you know, they're not part of the family. They're just left behind like garbage.

Well, cats act like they want to leave all the time, too. Some of it is their fault. I'm not going to say that it should happen, but some of the cats.

Are like, well, that's because the person has not invested the time in the cat.

And that could very well be true.

And that is part of what. That's where the. Where the change happened. So I got these cat, these twelve kittens. I've ended up finding home for all of of them. And when I realized that and I went in, I got more.

I bet nobody wanted to talk to you because if you even talk to somebody, they go like, this lady's gonna try to give me a cat.

Oh, no, we're very picky about, oh, wow. I mean, they have to fill out an application all, you know, all the things. So.

Okay.

I mean, I, this was just really, you know, eye opening for me. And I also realized that that part of the, not only were just kittens being dumped off, but people were leaving their adult cats behind. And that's because they felt like their cat didn't care, they didn't have a relationship with their cat. And that's where I thought, well, I can make a difference here. I, so part of, you know, part of my show is like an educational, to inspire people to, you know, like, hey, not only can cats do tricks, you can teach your cat. Look at the relationship. My cats act like dogs. They follow me around the house. I mean, the little kittens that I just started training, they follow me around like puppies. They're like, what are we gonna work? When are we gonna work? Let's do something. Let's do something. And I realized that I can make a difference here. I can help save lives. So not only have I saved actual lives, but I've fostered and found homes for 340 cats and kittens since 2000. Since that 2009.

Wow.

And I, through my show, I foster a bunch, take them on the road with me, teach them tricks, put them in the show, and then find homes.

For them right after the show. People can't even adopt them.

Well, because we stay in a place for a while, they have to fill out, they fill out the application, we check the references, and if they get approved, they get the training kit. All the kittens are trained to go to carrier at the sound of a whistle. They're all comfortable traveling in a car, which is a big thing. And they're all trained to do a parlor trick. So like a high five, a sit pretty, a spin, maybe even playing the piano. And who's going to leave a cat behind that high fives you when you come in from work that day and they give you a high five after your bad day, you're not going to leave that cat behind. So, so my admission is like, no cat gets left behind when disaster strikes or you move. That cat's part of your family. And because I've given the cat a good start by training them to do the basics. And they are. They're all clicker trained.

It's like the marines almost.

Yeah. No cat.

Yes.

You know, this cat is going to be a permanent part of your life. I've already pre trained it all. Yeah, it's already knows that. You know, all you have to do is give him the cue and he's going to sit pretty for you. And here's. Here's the whistle to call him for meal time.

So that's part of the. So part of the show also is that not only are the cats performing, but there's this underbelly. There's this positive underbelly of you shelling out cats to people and getting cats in the homes.

Yeah, okay, well, good homes. We don't just, like, hand them out on the corner.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah. That's the thing about a cat. People are always like, dude, do you want a cat? And you'd be like, just, oh, just. If you leave your door open, like, a cat will come in. That's. That was always the thing about cats. Like, you don't. Like, one of my friends was telling us was like, dude, I think I'm gonna buy this cat. I'm like, dude, you don't buy a cat. You just. Just be somewhere and just get a cat.

Yeah, they choose you. They'll appear in your life. Like, they will.

Like, just like, little whispers from God or whatever.

Yeah. You know, I mean, we've had so many instances of, you know, on Milwaukee Avenue in Chicago, one day, a bus pulls up, door opens, a cat comes out. A little kitten comes out, steps out of the bus and walks up to our front door. It just like, hey, I heard this is the place to go.

Like, hey, you just got out of jail.

I need to be. I need to be here. So. And I'm like, what just happened here? This bus door just opened. This kitten came out, and they're sitting at my front door. I mean, I witnessed it happen.

A lot of cats have that fast pass or whatever. I know. With the tour, what was one of the tougher times that you had? You ever have a time where just the show barely got off the ground, or it just didn't, something just happened?

Well, I mean, there's been so many, especially with the bus. We had this Texas fiasco where we finally got back on the road, and we had a fan clutch issue. The bus broke down. A couple guys tried to fix it. They made it worse. We were stuck in a bar in the middle of nowhere for, like, three days. We had to cancel our show in Dallas, and I've probably canceled maybe a half dozen shows in my lifetime. I am one of those. The show must go on. If there's a way to get there, I will get there and do the show. I mean, even when I was going through cancer, had a broken foot at the same time, I was still doing the show, you know, the show must go on. People are excited about these cats. You know, they're like, can't wait to see the cats again. Like, we have repeat people. People that see the show every time we come to town.

Oh, cat people are absolutely insane.

They have their favorite cats. They have. All my cats have their own merch. And so, you know, people. I don't want to let down the people that are so excited about the cats. And, you know, but we were. We were grounded. We were not able to get, you know, to that destination. So we finally end up getting towed to a proper repair place, and it doesn't get fixed in time. So we're having to rent U hauls and live in the theater during the show, during the show run. So then we get to. And this was, like, march a couple years ago in Texas, and when they had that freak snowstorm in Texas, so the show was canceled. Then it wasn't. Then it was canceled, then it wasn't because of the snowstorm. So we're living in the venue, you know, with everything set up, ready to go in case we can do the show. And then the bus that was supposed to be ready for Houston broke down 20 minutes out of the shop. So we did not, you know, we didn't have the bus yet again, so we had to get another U Haul, get.

Transfer all the cats, and get a, you know, get a rental car, get all the cats to the next venue. And luckily, the venues were all were amazing, so they let us move in and sleep in the venue. We were sleeping on couches. You know, we got some air mattresses.

And also. And when you go on tour, how many people are on the tour bus with you or in the rv?

Well, there's myself, and then I usually have two. At least two assistants. At one point, we had a driver that traveled with us, but post Covid drivers are really hard to come by. You just, you know, there's a shortage of drivers, and they. They generally want an obscene amount of money, and they want a hotel room room that's crazy expensive. Like, we can't afford that. I want to keep the ticket prices somewhat reasonable. I mean, we've had to raise the prices pretty, you know, intensely as it is. But we always try to keep a level of seats that are affordable because, you know, between the fuel and, oh, it's so expensive. And I've learned how to drive the bus since, because I'm like, I cannot be at the mercy of drivers anymore like that.

Did you have to get a commercial driver's license or no.

Well, it's because it's a private owned code, so I own it. And because I've been driving big vehicles. I started out with the ambulance, and then it was a 23 foot rV, then a 27 foot rV, then it was a 35 foot bus, and now it's a 45 foot bus. So I've just.

You're driving an actual tour bus?

Yeah, I'm driving an actual tour bus.

Wow. Full of cats.

Full of cats and assistants, yeah. And then we hire someone to drive the longer, like, if it's a long drive, because it's just tough on me to do drive. So we'll hire someone to do the long drive, and then I'll drive, like, the short drives. Like, when we go to the east coast, I'll drive from Boston to Portland, and then we're gonna stay in Portland for almost a month.

Oh, good.

So we get to settle in a campground and go back and forth to the venue and be fun and. Yeah, so, I mean, I just. I love that part of it where you get to see. I get to see people I haven't seen in a couple of years, or we go, like, some places we go every year. We go to Texas every year. New Orleans every year.

Have you ever had issues with performers? Ever had an issue, like, a performer didn't make it to the show? Or, like, what's that kind of, like.

Oh, I had last. The last time we were in Portland, my assistant that was supposed to fly in, her daughter got Covid, so she got Covid, and then the assistant that was with me, she got Covid. So I had to do the entire show myself. And even our merch person who usually ran the merch also got Covid it. So luckily, I had a mega fan and the sound guy who had been helping us with the show forever, he, you know, they. They chipped in, and, you know, they helped me. You know, I box the cats. They'd help, you know, reset the stage, take the cats in. I would run in. I would, like, have, like, kind of half makeup on. I set the merch thing up, and I'd, you know, would start the selling of the merch. And I'd instruct whoever volunteer was there, okay, this is what you need to do. And then I would go back out and get dressed for the show, and then I'd run back out on stage, and I'd do the opening announcements. Right. And then I'd sell the cat ears, because we walk around with a tray. Cat ears, get your cat ears.

Cat ears. Get your cat ears. So then I sell the cat ears, do the opening announcement, and then, you know, take the cat ears back. And then I had a friend that was kind of with me who she didn't. She was just. There is like more of a friend. She didn't really know how the show went. She hadn't done any rehearsals. So basically, she was kind of at least another body on stage.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah. It was just pretty much me up there, you know? You know, like, okay, let this cat out now. Let this cat out now. And grabbing the props when I need them and explaining to the audience, like, it's just me up here. And, you know, I've never done this part before, so I'm like, I'm looking at this long script. I'm going. I'm not going to say all that. I'm just going wing it. So this is a situation. So I don't know what's going to happen, but we're just going to, you know, enjoy the cats. And. And, and I had. And I learned. I mean, I learned a lot.

Yeah.

After that experience, I changed a lot of our, you know, the way we sell merch. I was like, this is insane. I saw. It's like, we're going to make part of this self serve and, and, you know, just only the, you know, important things do. People have to, you know, dig for to give to the. So, you know, I just. I learned how. I learned where some of the. Where improvements need to be made.

Yeah. Sometimes it's. Certain things force you in a certain moment, and then that's where you learn the most, which is kind of wild. Yeah.

And the show. But the show must. The show must go on. I am one of those, like, literally, the show must go on. You don't just decide, oh, you know, I'm not. I'm not feeling it today, or, I mean, I've done it like, I've had full on sick where I could have to talk in a whisper, you know, like I'm doing. I've got tea on stage whispering into the microphone because I can barely. Because I barely have a voice, but I'm still doing the best I can. And then immediately going and sleeping and resting. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Managing yourself and getting all that kind of stuff done is a lot.

Of the bus, too. You don't, I can't even imagine, and still train the cats and raise the babies, the kittens, you know, that we have portable incubators, so, you know, there's bottle. A lot of times we have bottle babies.

And have you ever gotten stopped by the police? And they're like, what's going on here?

Very rarely. It's, you know, I think that it, like, animals bring out the best in people for the most part. So we've run into so many great people out on the road that have been so helpful and have come to our rescue.

Well, like, has there ever been a perform, like, a cat that had it all? Like a cat that kind of had it all in, and then just for some reason, things just kind of fell apart. Like, kind of like the Chris Brown of, like, cats kind of.

Well, they, I think we've only had one cat that we were after, like a year of trying. I was like, this cat is just not going to be acro cat material. So we were tied, you know, we moved him to another because I also, you still train, you know, cats and other animals for film and television. So I'm like, well, this guy, he's got model qualities. He's a Siamese. He's got the siamese coloring, so he could get, he could get, you know, commercial work. And so he was transferred to another department.

That's fair, then.

But a lot of the cats, if, when they get to that, you know, they decide, like, okay, I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do that. Or when they get older and, you know, and some, if they get joint pain.

Oh, yeah.

And so then I scale back on the tricks that I have them do because I certainly don't want them to experience pain.

Of course not. Was there ever a trick that you tried to get cats to do, and finally you just had to be like, we can't make this trick work?

There's been some that I've tried because there's some russian cat circuses out there that different kind of, I mean, they're sharp like, I mean, my cats come out and stretch and groom and just start. It's like hiring family. They're not professional. But, you know, I've seen some pretty impressive things with these rushing cat circuses where they really high up in the air, they do this army crawl. And at one point, I was like, I really want to teach this army crawl? But then I looked at it and I was like, how can that possibly be comfortable for the cat? It just, it just doesn't seem like it's, you know, I ended up abandoning attempting that trick because I looked at it and I thought, it doesn't seem right. It doesn't. How can that. It's not natural. It's not a natural skill at all. Like balancing on a ball, on a barrel, climbing a rope, jumping down to my back. I mean, those are all cat agility type things. They've got great balance. You know, none of the props are super high up with, you know, Osty, the one that jumps to my back. I mean, that's an eight foot high pole.

Yeah.

I mean, and she cheats. She crawls down two 3ft and then jumps to my back. I didn't even know until I saw a video clip. And she's been cheating the whole time. She's not even doing the true jump.

Like Leah Thomas or whatever.

Yeah. I'm like, have you seen these russian cats jumping 20ft up in the air down to a pillow?

Well, Russia. Yeah, look, it's the same as, like, when those russian hamsters came in. It kind of changed the game of hamster sales in our area. I remember that the Russians are very severe about the dictatorship over animals.

Oh, yeah. They're different. Energy.

Um, has there ever been a time where, like, like, you come back at halftime and the cats are all like, just bummed out or they're smoking or whatever.

They're just like that catnip. They get into the catnip. They get, they get over to that merch table and roll around the catnip. I'm just like, oh, no.

Will they?

Oh, and they'll go into the audience and if somebody's bought a catnip toy, they'll dig it right out of the purse. They'll just take it. Just take it.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, and they'll drink their beer. I mean, like, Jax loves beer, so, I mean, everybody, like, hold on to your drinks. Do not give this cat beer. She loves beer. Don't let her drink the beer.

Yeah, she might be a single mother, too.

Yeah. Just because the cats are always their opportunist, you know, they're, they're gonna do, you know, they're gonna be like, I'm just gonna go catnip out there. See ya. You know, and I'm left like, what am I supposed to do here? Like, with the. Because Albacore, just like he's supposed to be the star, he's supposed to have this moment where we do a solo in the middle of the show, of course, and it's his highlight. And he's just, he's like, they got popcorn out there and BBR. I'm just gonna go. And I'm like, what do you mean, you're gonna go? And he's like, yeah, I'm just gonna go. And I'm like, yeah, but this is your moment. He's like, yeah, I'm just gonna go. And I'm standing there. The music is starting. I've got, I don't have my solo cat. He's just, he's just gone to the bar to get a pbrjtainde and popcorn, and I'm like, send out. Take a seat. So, so Dixie comes out and does all the tricks just because she had been doing them, you know, she was just, bam, bam, bam. Did the tricks better than he did.

So she saved the day.

So she saved the day, you know? And he comes racing up on stage to try to take over because, hey, now I don't want this other cat doing my job, you know? And he's just failing because Dixie's just leaping higher and faster and long, doing, he's like three beats behind everything, so, and that, and at that point, that's when that portion of the show turned into a competition. So I had to change that portion. And because of that incident, so I'm all constantly having to change and evolve based on, like, we had a cat that got sick, you know, and then something was off. Like, the first show we did, I was like, something's wrong with Bowie. So I, you know, I whispered to my, you know, like, skip, skip this, skip this trick. Skip that trick. So then Bowie went to the vet and I had to, like, rearrange the show and bring out, you know, this cat to cover for this trick for Bowie. And, you know, Osty are going to be drumming, you know, for both shows. And, you know, ossie's the one that's like, the what? You know, the one that's always like, she's like, always, what do you got?

When I get, you know, she has to climb up the pole.

Yeah. Let me see what you got here.

Yeah, the eight foot pole. And leap to my shoulder. She walks 3ft down, then leaps to it. She, like, she literally is like, what do you got? If I don't have tuna or salmon and a good piece, like, she'll be like, not doing it, then I have to go back and get something better and go, how about now and then she'll do it.

Yeah. Did you ever have, like, any issues where the show couldn't go on or, like, just issues with some of your performers that made it tough, like, what has been some of that?

Well, we had an incident where the star, the original tuna, disappeared 3 hours before the show. The driver had left a little window open, and tuna was nowhere to be found. I mean, I had posters up in ten minutes. I mean, I'm walking up and down the street calling, you know, whistling all the things, you know, and, you know, tuna's like, nowhere to be found. Now it's 2 hours before showtime. Now it's an hour before showtime. You know, I'm like, what am I going to do? She's the star of my show. Like, she is like, this is like, tuna. You can't. I mean, she, like, any of the other cats I can cover for, but, I mean, I have to have tuna.

Yeah.

And, and then I noticed that there's this white cat right next door to the venue we're performing at, and he's behind this wrought iron fence. And I was like, tuna? You know, and the cat just looks at me like, I know you're talking to I don't know any tuna. And I was like. And then I asked the guy, I go, is this your cat? He goes, no. And I'm like, tuna? And still, like, nothing, right? So then I went and I got the bell, and I put the bell right inside the fence and rang it, which, of course, tuna couldn't resist. That was like, oh, that's my trick. It just, you know, can't help it. Like, there's one cat that if I hit a piano note, she comes running. So I hit that Bella cat that kept saying, no, I'm not. Tuna came right over and rang the bell, and I was like, you've been here this whole time? You've seen me running up and down the street panicking, and you're just sitting here acting like you're this guy's pet when we have a show in like an hour now, and you've just been watching me panic and you've been here this whole time?

And she's like, yeah, didn't care. Didn't care. Like, yeah, whatever, I'll do.

You know, actors are so hard to, to deal with.

Oh, yeah, the cat. I mean, it's.

That's most of what I've heard, you know? Yeah, I mean, that's a lot of what I heard. Do the cats do like a half time at the show or anything? Like it? Or is there, like a little break? You guys all go back in the locker room or anything like that, or it's just one full. The show is.

Well, it's like. It's like an hour and a half show.

Okay.

And then we do a meet and greet.

So.

So it's expanded over the years. Now it's a nine. We now have a nine piece band. It started out as a three piece bandaid, and then we added cowbell, and then we added chimes, and we added a chicken on cymbal and tambourine, and then we added a horn section. So now we have trumpet, saxophone, and clarinet.

Oh, it's beautiful.

So we have this nine piece.

Of course, you gotta have. Yeah, well, people are more demanding now, too. People want to see it all, and.

It'S so much fun. I mean, I just love the whole band playing together.

Oh, it's beautiful.

And then we do the meet and greet. So people get to come up, and depending on the size of the venue, if it's up to 150, people can come up and get it. Do the meet and greet where they see the cats up close. They can take photos with the band, and they get also that. That way they can see that, because the cats could leave, literally, if they're not comfortable or they're freaked out, they could just go. I mean, it's a big theater. There's a curtain, dude. Yeah. They could go in their carrier. They could hide. They could.

They could go back to outer space. All.

Also, the fact that they're sitting there posing for a picture and just come comfortable with the stampede of people coming up to get photos with, that's a lot shows people also that, like, that. This is. This is a whole new level of cat. And if she can do it. And because my cats do fail, I mean, they come out and they groom and.

Yeah. Have you ever had a cats fight on stage?

After the show we've had, there's been some issues. Wherever. There's some animosity that I have to keep certain cats separate. For sure, it's like strippers, but, yeah, it's been. There's been some. Some moments where I have to keep, you know, certain ones away and.

You ever had a cat jump into the crowd and go after somebody or anything?

Yeah, after it was. Luckily it was after the show, so there was a little incident afterwards, and we got them separated and. But, you know, it's, you know, like, if we see, like, the one cat, like everybody knows who doesn't get along with. With somebody. So now we have spotters in the audience that it's like, you know, most of the cats are allowed to go out and wander and do their thing, but if this cat leaves, it's because he's, you know, he's starting something. Yeah, he wants to start something. So bring, you know, make sure this cat comes back. But the others, they. They're free to wander and.

Yeah.

And they. And, you know, like I said, it kind of. Kind of keeps it fun because I never know what they're going to do. I'm constantly having to shift things around when. Yeah, yeah. And just make it work on the fly. Yeah.

Are people allowed to bring cats to the show?

It would prefer that they don't. I mean, we've had somebody occasionally sneak one in, but they prefer, you know, and sometimes the service dogs that have to be admitted, we, you know, they have to be at least four rows back so that they don't upset the show. Yeah, yeah, but, yeah, that's fair. Yeah.

Is there, after the show, you ever celebrate everything? Give the cats a little bit of champagne or anything to kind of enjoy the evening? Kind of.

Oh, I mean, well, you know, the catnip parties, for sure. They get their, you know, catnip parties and they get the leftover snacks. I mean, we cook fresh chicken, salmon, tuna, turkey, chicken liver. Like, they eat better than we do. Like, I'm eating pringles out of a can.

Yeah, that's like a name. McCormick and schmicks, they're at or whatever.

And they're dining on fresh sushi, like, sushi grade tuna that's lightly seared on both sides, right in the middle. That's how they like it. It. Right. And I'm, like, eating pringles. I'm like, oh, man, this smells so good.

Yeah, it's baffling to me. Is there a lot of competition in the market? I've seen, like, there's, like, meow good death. I'm trying to think of some of the. Or, like, scratch box 20. I've seen. There's, like, some different band, like cat bands that I've seen online. But is there a lot of competition in the market? I mean, you mentioned there's some russian shows.

Yeah, I'm really, like, the only touring act that. Of this nature that's just. And, you know, full on. I mean, there's. There's Gregory Popovich, who's based out of Vegas, and he does tour around, like, I think, once a year or so. He hits in various places. So he's. He's kind of the only cat, you know, the, like, regularly touring show, and then there's some.

And that's a cat show also.

It's a cat. Dogs, birds, and some other things.

Okay, so it's multi animal.

Yeah, multi, multi animals. So he's pretty well known for his cats, and he started it in Branson and got that Vegas job. So, you know, he's. He's definitely well known for the, for the cats. And then there's the. I think there's some russian. Two women that do. That do, like a cat act. You know, I think maybe they have, like, five cats or such. And they do a lot of the, they do some of the venues that I can't, because my cats are. They're. They're gonna want, you know, if I'm in a. If I'm in a hall where there's other things like booths and people always want me to come to these expos and whatnot, I'm like, you guys have, like, booths and serving food and my cats. Yeah. My cats are, like, gonna be like, I'm just gonna. There's hot dogs over there. I'm just gonna go get a hot dog. And why would I? See ya. So, you know, but there's. But there's definitely a couple. Their cats are a lot more, like, precise because the relationship. They have more of a professional relationship.

That Bella Carolli type of energy.

Yeah. It's just, you know, they go to their carrier. They come out, they work. They go to their carrier. They're not hanging out and watching television at night with the animals.

Right. It's a very. It's almost like being, like, russian. Almost very russian people. You know, in Russia, some of the children even have dolls that are made out of stone. And you would see kids with, like, a three or four pound doll. Like, that's crazy. But it also, at the sim, it's like, it teaches you that there's a weight of taking care of someone.

So it's just. I mean, I had to make a choice at one point. Either I can have a slick show, or I can enjoy the. Enjoy being with the animals.

Right.

And I'm happy with the choice that I made because people seem to really love the fact that those cats sometimes do it and sometimes don't. And it actually is more encouraging because we sell training kits after the show so people can train their cats.

Oh, people can do it at home.

Yeah. So they're inspired to go home and train their own cats. I love that. And it has made such a difference, honey. Yeah. That people, I'll get letters from people and videos. Look what I trained my cat to do. And seeing your show changed my life. And this relationship that I have with this cat has completely changed. And the behavioral problems have stopped because I started paying attention and training my cat. So there's so many benefits. There's health benefits because a lot of.

People just think cats are fucking crazy.

Yeah, no, they're just. They have all this energy, and if you're keeping them inside because you need to, because it's dangerous out there, that you need to give them something to.

Do with their brain, say they're even from outer space. Do you ever feel anything like that?

No. I mean, I think that they're just very independent, intelligent. I mean, smarter than dogs in a way, because, you know, dogs are just like, I'll do whatever. Cats are grudge holders and very, like, not, you know, stubborn. And, you know, you really have to work within, you know, within the cats. You have to make it fun for the cat, for sure. You have to find out what the cat likes to do. I mean, I spend a lot of time just hanging out with the cats, watching them, especially, like, the group of kittens we have. You know, they're all running around. I'm seeing who's climbing, who's perching, who's using their paw. Like, what is this cat? What can this cat do? What should I focus on? So I, you know, well, just by hanging out with the cats and watching what they do, that's how I'm inspired by. To come up with a trick to coordinate what, you know, what they can do.

Wow. If you had to pick, like, a Mount Rushmore of, like, your best performing cats and you had to put four of them on it, obviously. Tuna. The original tuna's on there. Who else is on there?

Boy? I mean, osty is very solid, but slow, slowly. I mean, just hysterically solidified slow. Bowie is pretty. Is pretty good. Albacore tuna is solid. But t was kind of riding the coattails of, you know, like, the original tuna. Like, he doesn't really feel like he has to prove himself. You know, he's like, I'll do the minimum. And where Tuna had a really original tuna, had a really great work ethic.

That's what's nice. Yeah, having that is very nice.

And then I have. Newt is my youngest, and she is amazing. Just crazy. I mean, I was. I was quarantined with. I had Covid. For the first time ever, I was in New Orleans, so her and I, and I had all I had this time so I actually was able to do shaping.

Yeah.

So a lot of times what? Because I'm training fast, and shaping is what shaping is when you just sit with clicker and treats and you wait for the cat to do something, and then the cat has to figure out what it is you want to do without any clue from honestly.

So you let them learn it?

I let them learn it.

Teach themselves?

Yes.

That's really the best way.

Yeah. So then they're like, oh, I heard the click. So, okay. What? You know, like, you just see the light come on in their eyes. Once they, you know that light bulb moment where they get it, they're like, oh, I think I get it. I thought, you know, because at first they're just like, what is it that you want? You know? Like, I just don't get it. And then they hear the click, and they're like, okay, something to do with the paw. Something to do with this paw. Something to do with this keyboard. Oh, I think it's a keyboard. Like, oh, okay. And, you know, you just sit and you just wait.

Then they're playing damn stairway to heaven, and then. Yeah, you're eating lamb.

Yeah. And then when you see that light come on, and they're just. They get it. I mean, so they basically, they learn to learn, and then they get creative, too. And now they'll come up with their own tricks, or, you know, you'll start training them to do one thing, and they'll be like, no, I want to do this instead. And I love that about them that cats have and the fact that they're negotiators, too, because, I mean, once I'm on stage, I'm, like, in front of an audience, I can't, like, reset and be like, okay, we're gonna redo this here, and I'm not gonna move on with the show until you get this right. I have to just go with the flow. And they know that I. You know, they. I'm a little stuck, so they'll be like, I'm not gonna do this, but I'll do this instead. And I'm like, okay, that's only the.

Most cat thing I've heard all day. Yeah, I'll do this instead.

Yeah, but I do this instead.

We had a guy, we had a corner on. He said that cats would eat people if they passed away. Have you ever heard that?

Oh, I totally believe it.

I mean, they said, yeah, this guy said a cat could even eat your face within, like, 30 something hours or something if they wanted to.

Oh, I mean, I respect that about cats. A dog will die right along beside you. A cat's gonna be like, yes. She taking her life. Maybe I'll start early. But I respect that. I respect that cats are grudge holders, too. Like, you do something that they don't like, they write it in their little book, and, like, I'm gonna remember this, that you just did this. So. Yeah. And I really do respect that about cats because they are not as forgiving, which is why you have to really make. It can never be forced. It's gotta be fun for the cat. And if they're gonna perform, they really are.

They mean it.

Yeah.

Cause you're not gonna get anything for free out of a cat.

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, but if it's a high, you know, reward, like, if it's a salmon, I mean, it's like, okay, I'm gonna drum a little bit more for the salmon than I will for the chicken.

Wow.

You know, where the youngsters, the kittens are like, chicken, that's great. We'll do everything.

They don't know.

Yeah, they don't know. But the seasoned ones, they're like, yeah, let's see what you got here. That salmon looks a little dry. Anything better? Wow. Just. Yeah, so. And I've had the cats, that same cat go up that pole four times in a show and just wait up there. And I have to stop the show of you know what. Cause I'm at this part of the show. And then Osty's back up on that pole because she left instead of going back to her carrier, went back up the pole because she liked the particular cooking that day. The cooking was good that day. So she's like, I want more.

So now the show's changed a little. We're going to keep. We're going to do maybe some different things that we might out of Dunn.

Yes. And I gotta back. Go back over there. Get. Do. Assume the position where I'm, like, leaning over. She does the jump to my back and then sometimes leaves again.

Yeah.

And then ends up back on that pole. And people are like, pointing. And I'm like, oh, again.

So a lot of just watching you work with cats, it's like, just the reality is that it's almost impossible. What? We're gonna do our best.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm just standing there like, my arm flung out at this cat because. Especially because, I mean, I had probably one of the worst experiences I ever did early on in my career. I got a week long gig in Branson because Popovich abandoned Branson for this, for the gig in Vegas. So they had no cat act, and they had billboards. People were traveling miles to see his cats. So they hired this guy to put together another act to take the place of this. So he hired a dog act, a bird act, and then a cat act. And it was. He had so a russian, a couple russian people coming in with cats. But he had one week where he didn't. They weren't available. So he brought me in on the advice of somebody who had never seen my show. And people are expecting this, and this.

Is a big opportunity. Cause you're coming into Branson.

Yeah. Full theater. I mean, tuna ran offstage the very first rehearsal. It was just, I mean, the, you know, the guy, he was like, listen, you know, you act as just. I'm not. You're supposed to be the headliner, but you can't be. So I'm going to have to bury you in the middle. And then in the meantime, you know, the dog people hated us because we weren't organized. The bird people hated us because the cats wanted to eat the birds.

Yeah.

So. And I'm just mortified because the cats aren't doing anything in that. And the cats are super sensitive, so they're feeling the hate from the audience. Right. Because they're. People are expecting awesome cats and they're getting Samantha's not so amazing agrocats. And, you know, and, I mean, I just wanted to slither out of town in the middle of the night, not even collect my fee, and go back.

You have to end the show early.

Well, no, I fulfilled my week. And during that time period, the guy that hired me, he gave me all sorts of tips and got help, got me organized and showed me how to play off. You know, like when, you know, when a cat did something, you just commit to it. Like, look at that. The cat's doing nothing. But isn't that great, you know, and just really exaggerate the moves, you know, you know, not do no teapot arms. You had to just, you know, bring that excitement. Even though the cat isn't doing anything, you just play it off as that's what. Amazing cat. Look at this amazing cat. Look at that. Yeah, go. You know, so we just did the best we could. And then, you know, it was a very long, quiet drive home of, like, should I even continue you this hot mess? Because I. It was an epic fail. Epic fail until, you know, I thought that was the worst until I bombed Uncle Bear.

Oh, yeah, I saw that.

Oh, that was the worst. Oh, and as soon as, and Newey, soon as I opened up the carrier, Newey was like, didn't come out to skateboard. And I was like, oh. And she's like, what'd you think was going to happen? And I was like, you jerks, you know, this is a big opportunity for us. We're starting our Kickstarter campaign and you guys are going to do this now? Really? And they're like, oh, yeah, they, they got me good on that. I was just like, but luckily he was a good sport about it.

Yeah, I saw he came out and kind of walked on the ball like that.

He had cat ears on. He kept those cat ears. He'd put them on occasionally.

Oh, that's cool. He was really great. That was awesome.

Yeah, I mean, but I only like four tricks out of ten happened.

Do you think you really have any control over the cats?

Do you think it's, I mean, a little bit, but it's really. And I think what went wrong there is that there were two. It's because they pick up on nervous energy. So if I'm nervous, they're nervous. And then I had all these extra assistants that were like, we want to be on the show. So we had too many people involved, too much energy, and they felt it, and they felt all that nervous energy, so they were like, oh, we can't, we're not going to do, we just can't do this. So just like, we really can't do. When people want to hire us for an event and it's a mixed bag of people. Like, some are cat lovers, some aren't. Like, my cats feel that energy. They're like, we don't feel the love. So that's why we do that. We rent out a theater. We're not really for hire.

Right. It's more we want cat lovers to come.

Yeah. So it's a self produced show, so I rent out the theater. We do the advertising, we do marketing, we do, you know, do everything from the beginning. And, you know, it's hard to find venues that'll even let you know that let us for sure.

I mean, well, it's hard to find humans that will believe in what you're doing. I mean, I think it's, a lot of people think it's absolutely insane to drive around in a van with eleven cats or something. They think it's insane. Yeah, it's something that you see of like a hoarder or somebody that's a, some freelance Noah's Archie and type of human, you know. But I think when you see that you love it so much and that your goal, or a lot of your goal, is have been to get these cats into, like, big time programming and get them fun opportunities if they want. If they want it, and also to kind of meet the cats where they are. It's like, if they're not. If some of them don't have it, they don't have it. You don't have to tell them that, really, you just work with where they are willing to work.

Yeah, exactly. Work within their parameters and, you know, inspiring people to. To train their own cats and. And I know I've had. I've saved, like, I've saved some of my own cats lives just because of the training routine. Like, you know, like, I would have band practice every time, anytime I cooked the. Because the band is set up in the kitchen. Anybody, you know, the band comes running and they take their place on their instruments and they start playing because they want. They want treats.

You know, they know what song will they play?

It's all free form jazz. It's like their own music. So it's, you know, not all of it. Not. Not a lot of them are big hits, I would say, but it's our own.

I used to live in Alphabet City in New York for a little bit, and you would hear a lot of some of that at certain nights or.

Whatever, but, yeah, with the one cat, like, my guitar player, she was solid. My best guitar player ever. She didn't show up for band practice. Like, she always showed up for band practice. And I found. I went looking for her. She was, like, sitting in front of the fireplace, and I even offered her a freebie, like, here, how about take this? And she was, like, not interested. I was like, something's wrong with Pinky. So I took her to the vet, and she had a feverous. You might not have noticed anything was wrong for several days to the point of where it was too late. But because I had a routine established and because I have a routine established with these cats, you know, even blowing the whistle for feeding time, you can tell within five minutes if something's wrong with somebody, just. They might have a limp. They might be favoring one side of their mouth, and they chew, you know, like something's wrong. You know, I can tell just because I've, you know, established a routine and it doesn't, you know, you don't have to put together a huge act like I have. You can.

Just one simple trick, you know, even just the whistle to the carrier will give you all the information you need. To know whether or not your cat needs to go to the vet. And now you can take your cat to the vet because it's already oriented to a carrier. Because when we do fostering and we adopt them out, they're already all used to traveling.

Do you feel like they are the performers or that you are the performer?

I think it's a combination. Both. We play off each other, like, so. So whatever, you know, whatever is happening with them and, you know, will, you know, causes my, you know, so it's both.

We're.

So we're both performers. By definitely the improv thing, it's. I mean, I have to be, like, just be on and also. But not nervous either. So it's like, to be like, okay, gonna be fine. I always tell people, especially new people that are, get a little stage fright. And I also suffer from stage fright, which really sucks to suffer from stage fright. It's normal. Yeah. So I'm like, oh, it's very normal. I gotta shove myself out there because there's the part of me that there's the nurturer, the bottle, raise, the shy girl, because, I mean, I was the shy outcast growing up, so there's still that shy little outcast in me that's taking. That's a nurturer. But then there's Samantha, the show person, right? And I don't even know where she is. She's probably drinking at the bar. I don't know, but I'm like, where is she? She gonna show up? I have to go out there. I don't even know if she's gonna show up. You know? And then I get out there, and then, bam, the cats start. And then there's that part of my personality that can. They can pull it off.

I'm like, oh, thank God you showed up. You were. She's like, I was at the bar. You know, I. You know, I'd show up.

Will you have a cocktail before you go on stage?

Usually I'll have a little bit of. I'll have a glass of wine.

You gotta have fun.

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's just mainly to just, you know, so I'm relaxed, and. And then the cat, you know. So the cats are relaxed?

Oh, yeah. There's videos of cats even drinking wine. But do cats care if you use profanity or drink around them?

No, I mean, they use profanity and, you know, in their own little world, they drink and smoke and do all the things. I mean, Osty's always seems as high as a kite on weed, you know, like a puff of smoke comes out of her carrier. You know, we all kind of see it because just like albacore with the popcorn and the PBR. Of course, he was not really holding a PBR and chugging it and popcorn and his other. I mean, they don't have opposable thumbs. They can't really do that. But, you know, I painted a picture, and we all saw that. Like, we all saw him walking down the aisle with popcorn and a PBR. Cause he's got terrible taste in beer. You know, we all knew that he would chug that PBR before coming up on stage to try to take back what Dixie stole. And everybody that's on the road, because we're in this 45 foot by eight by five foot space with these cats, and we're days on end, you know, just us. It's kind of like Tom Hanks and cast away with Wilt Wilson. We have whole backstories. And, you know, where the cats.

We know what, you know, what school they went to, what they majored in, what their job was. You know, they all worked at the mall at one point.

No, I think it's fascinating. It's important, and it's important to build a world for whatever your world is that you live in. You know, it's important to add characteristics of things and make them bring them more alive. You know, I think that's really interesting.

And personalize them, because, you know, we do a calendar every year with their lives and dislikes. They're fun facts.

And is there ever any sex between the animals, or do you ever engage? You ever see any stuff like that?

I mean, all of our cats are spayed and neutered because it would be really irresponsible, especially once I got involved in rescue to.

Did they decapitate the wiener? Like, do they.

No, this is the testicles, so.

Oh, they take the testicles.

Yeah, the testicles. It's a less invasive surgery than the spay. The spay. They actually have to cut, you know, like, open and. Yeah, it's. But it's so important. There's so many. And we lost so much ground with COVID You know, as far as the TNR programs, because I work, I have a lot of friends that are involved with TNR, which is really.

What's TNR?

Trap. Neuter return. So, you know, if they want to have an interesting guest on this guy, sterling the trap king, he does TNR. And, I mean, they. They go out there, they set these traps, because there's cats that are not going to be indoor cats, they've been living, been outside, they're street cats, but they're also reproducing. And then dude, if you leave the.

Windows open, you can hear it.

It's just on and on. And so something has to be done. So guys like, you know, sterling comes in, they come in with traps, they get permission from the, from the complex or the owner and they come in, they set the traps up and they can't just leave. They can't just set the trap and leave. They have to because otherwise when the, when the cat gets trapped, you know, if the sun, you know, inclement weather.

Right, so they gotta mill around.

They gotta mill around and wait to see to catch this cat and then they have to get it over to the place that's gonna do the surgery at six in the morning. I mean it's a huge dedication.

Trap neuter return. I gotta look into that.

Yeah, yeah.

Have you ever had PETA come out and say anything about your show? Have you ever had any issues like that or. No.

We had one person come in California, one pitta, and then they left 2 hours before the show even started. And anytime somebody has attacked me on social media, I have like 1000 people that come back with, have you ever seen her show? If you saw her show, you would see that these cats are her family, that they're loved, that they are not abused, they're not being forced, that they literally are doing what they want to do. They're, they're free to leave. I mean they are, their carriers are open. There's a whole theater for them to explore. Some of them do. Sometimes people will start laughing. I'm like, what's going on? They've gone up to the second level and they're doing stuff off with the props up there and just, just exploring, you know, they, I'm like being cats? Yeah, there's a show going on, guys. There's a show going on. I said, yeah, but there's a piano up here. You know there's a piano up here. And I'm like, yeah, I saw the piano earlier, but we're doing a show right now and I mean, I'll have these conversations with the cats and most of the time they don't, the audience doesn't hear right, but every once in a while they'll hear my part of it where I'll just have just, I'll just be like, I'm just, you know, like I am for this stops now.

Because it was like Albacore. We had been practicing his opening thing. He comes out. He turned on a light that starts the show. We rehearsed it. We did it every day for weeks. He knows what to do. Showtime comes along, and he's like, I just. And so I'd have to turn it on for him. And then the day came, he comes out, and he's just like. And I'm like, oh, no, you don't. Enough. You know how to do this. You have been doing this trick for weeks on end. You know what to do. And he's like, what are you doing? You know? Of course they don't hear that part. You know, he's like, what are you doing? I go, he's like, you're embarrassing me. Oh, I'm embarrassing you? You're the one embarrassing me. I'm the one looking like a crazy person talking to up here when you know how very well how to turn on this light. And. And he's like, okay, all right, fine. Just stop. I'll do. I'll do it. So he went and he turned on the light. And after that, we never. We didn't have a problem. That was it. You know, we had that little moment of like, okay, we're going to talk about this right now.

You're going to. You know how to do this. You're going to do it. I'm not going to keep doing it for you. And every once in a while, he goes back into he now he has his whole weird little routine where he comes out, he does a little dolphin thing. Because when he comes up, you'll see he likes to dolphin. So he's like, oh, I need a little extra. You know, let me just dolphin a couple times. And he goes out and he almost hits it, and he thinks he's gotten it. And I'm like, you didn't get it? He's like, oh, I totally did. I go, no, he didn't. It's like, it's not on. And he's like, are you sure? And I'm like, yeah, I'm really sure. And he'll go back out there and, you know, and he'll finally, you know, he'll get it. But it has to be just right. If it's too hard to turn on, he won't do it right. And if it's too easy, he'll just breathe on it or he'll use his chin. And I'm like, cheater. You cheater. You know, but people still love it. Like I said, yeah, yeah.

It's somebody being. It's just seeing somebody being around cats isn't you know, because there's a level of insanity to it for some people because they can't imagine it. But the fact that you love it I think is what makes it so important. And the fact also that you guys are helping getting cats in homes. You know, I didn't even believe in cats. I remember at first somebody told me about a cat or something and I was like who the fuck are you talking about? When I was a kid, you know.

I was like yeah.

What are you even fucking talking about?

The cats are so amazing. I just, I mean I love them so much and it's so to, I mean, I mean. Cause I'll have the worst show. I feel like I just had the worst show ever. And people come up and like this is the best show I've ever seen. And the joy that people had, they're like I haven't smiled. I was going through cancer and I haven't smiled in three years and this is the first time I've smiled. And I get letters from divorced couples. I brought my daughter to see her show and the very week we got your training kit, the next week I went over to the house and I paid my admission price and my daughter had set up a whole little cat circus in the basement.

It's like I still hate Stanley but I love those cats.

Yeah.

So yeah, yeah, it's a joy. It's, look I, it's fascinating. I think it's fascinating. I think it's fascinating to get to sit here with you Samantha Martin and to learn about acrocats. You guys are going on tour right? We'll put the links to where they can find you guys's tour. Where is it?

Oh website rockets rescue.org.

Rockets rescue.org. you can find the tour for Samantha and the amazing acro cats. And we're going to get a couple cats up here.

Yeah, yeah. We've got some cats and some kittens. Some foster kittens too. The ones that whereas two that are possibly going to be joining the team and right now we have ten foster kittens which is a lot. Yes.

The portal is open.

Yeah. So I mean I have them all stationing, I have all these little like stools and things so they're all trained to go and you know it's called, I call it the lion pyramid of kittens. So you know that I have, they'll all just come racing in and then assemble you know on their various platform and then we'll have a sign that says adopt us that, you know we put behind them and it's, and it's just. It's just chaos initially, and then eventually they all find their place and they sit and they sit pretty and they do their thing. So it is, you know, like I said. And it's just. I love training and watching them learn. Oh, I come on. And just. It's a completely different cat than the cat that's never paid attention to or just bowl of food is left out. Twenty four seven. And when cats are capable so much more. Just spend ten minutes a day with your cat. It's all it takes. This is your family member, and ten minutes a day isn't too much to ask, just to Richard.

It's definitely fair. Some people think cats are. They don't know. They don't know what they are even if they have them. But you're saying that there's a lot more to cats that people aren't seeing and investigating and that they could spend a little bit more time and do that.

Yeah, exactly. And then less of them be left behind when, you know, well, I gotta move and the place isn't a lot. Well, you find a place.

Well, sometimes cats will stay, though, too. Cats will. I'm not moving and they'll stay. So sometimes people do leave their cats. Sometimes cats leave the people, too.

Yeah. Well, that is, you know, but if a person developed that relationship. Relationship, then that cat is going to want to go wherever. Wherever you go. Like that. Like my.

Is that true?

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. If you. And if you just invest a little bit of time in your cat.

Yeah.

Then they're definitely going to want to stay with you. I mean, they. You know that when, you know, when tour time comes around and it. I mean, they definitely. I don't want to be left behind. I want to be left behind. Something's happening. Something's happening. They really. I mean, they want to go. Yeah, they want to go. They'll love the attention. They love. You know, they. I mean, they have. The back third of the bus is all decked out for the cats. They have the.

Add in some pictures. Yeah. I mean, some cats are performers. Some cats are. Who knows? You know, I think there's a lot to know about cats and I don't know a lot of it, but I'm grateful to just sit here and hear about it today and to know what's going on, that there's cats out there. There's something about knowing there's cats out there. Traveling the globe, performing at night, that kind of keeps me going. Let's get a couple cats up here and see. Let's see what we can see.

So there's a lot of. There's a lot of work that takes. That goes into, you know, training. Training an animal.

Yeah. That's fascinating.

Especially cats, because you have to acclimate them to so many different things.

Yeah. Most people think a cat is just crazy, but it's. It can be more than that. Whoa. What? Wow. Dude, that's great.

Tuna. Hey.

Oh, my God. You could do it.

Tuna. Tuna.

Oh, wow. That's sexy.

All right, try the small one. It's really. Tuna. Tuna.

Whoa. Gosh, he's bad.

And then he barely gets a good hype on this one. All right, Tuna.

There we go. That's a party cat. Wow. Wow. It's clean. That cat's clean, huh? What do y'all clean it with?

Oh.

Oh, wow. Oh, that one. Oh, it could work at autozone. Dude, that's unbelievable.

Oh, yeah, we did it. We did a car commercial really early on. It was hysterical with the cats. Tuna. Tuna. Tuna. Like, you were late on that tree. You know, I'm out of here. We can bring out the kittens. That. Where is the chicken? Yeah, the chickens here.

Wow. This is neat. I didn't know that an animal could do something like that. Oh, she could be a night manager at a motel.

Ready, kitten? Nope. You cheated. You gotta clear it. You gotta clear it. It was nice for you not to beat up the kitten. Nice. Try it again. Get a running start. Get a running start. Get a running start. Get a running start. You're kinda cheating there. So the goal is for. We would click once he clears it without stepping on it.

Oh, I see. So he wants to reinforce the exact.

Movement that you want.

So he's cheating or he's just taking it easy?

Well, he doesn't. He hasn't quite gotten it yet. He's still in the training. Like, I just started working on this two days ago. Yeah. Crush it. I'll have to send the clip of the skateboarding that we've been working on because it was one day of training with the skateboard.

Yeah, these cats are really chilling out here.

Yeah.

Damn. It's like a dang strip club in here. Wow. This the most cats we've ever had at once time anywhere. That's the best.

Down here. Send that, Samantha. He's trying to take a selfie.

That's good. Wow, they're beautiful.

They're all available for adoption. Well, except we are kind of on the. They may be. They may be hired.

If they don't go on tour, they're available for adoption.

Well, they'll go be on tour regardless. So when we go out on tour, they. We bring them all out. Out. Oh, you know, we'll kind of. It'll be kind of like a test. Like a test. Time to see who's. Who loves it. Like, some cats are just born to be on stage.

Yeah, this is.

We want. I want this job. I want to do this. Other cats are like, I don't want this job.

So they.

I want to be a house pet, but I'll still do some tricks. So those are the ones that we adopt out. And just because we had retired two of our cats recently is why we're, you know, hiring.

Yeah, the stage isn't for everybody.

Yeah, it's definitely not for everyone, but.

But it's for the acro cats, though.

It is for the afro cats.

I think.

Start out with, like, something, you know, simple. This is like, oh, this is easy. We hear the click. We get this treatment. They're letting you sit pretty.

Oh, I'm just glad you're not giving them opioids or anything like that.

I know people ask your cats, or you deeply, your cats. I'm like, they're agro cats. They need to be able to climb.

Well, the Japanese are drugging those dogs that are on Instagram, but that's a different conversation. The acro cat, Samantha Martin. Thank you so much for spending time with me and just for letting me learn about these cats. And, yeah, they really are beautiful today, and I look forward to seeing a show sometime.

Yeah, yeah, we're trying to book in Nashville, if we can get the theater to call us back.

Well, yeah, we'll see if we can help. But this is really awesome, and I appreciate you guys coming to spending time with us today.

Cornerstone. Oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it, Bones, but it's gonna take a little.