Transcript of #343 Jimmy Watson - John McAfee's Bodyguard Reveals the Dead Man's Switch

Blown away, you know, because I've kind of done the part, you know, the circuit, and this is on another level.

Oh, thank you, dude.

Everything.

Well, got a killer team, awesome team, and, uh, it wasn't always like this though, right? Started off in the attic.

So that's what he was telling me, your guy, man. He said this happened. You were just sending hard drives, dude.

Before that, it was me and my wife, and I was sitting here running sound while I was interviewing. And my wife— we had these cameras that would only record 30 minutes at a time. And so my wife would run back and forth and reset the cameras depending on who's talking.

My girl was so— she goes, Sean Ryan, she goes, how he, uh, how he becomes like this? How he do it? Wait, how'd he do it? You know, like she talks like that. I'm like, how'd he do it? Like, you mean how is he like a millionaire? How, how'd he become so successful? I said, he, he, he's got a badass show and he's super intelligent, smart about it and your marketing and everything. There's a lot that goes into it. And also you got in, I'm sure the timing was good too, but I don't know.

Well, I don't know, man. Probably.

You got in a while, a lot longer.

I just, I, when I did it, I was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna— I'm just gonna do it different than everybody else. Everybody had a purple curtain, you know, the Joe Rogan curtain.

Yeah.

And everybody had the headphones.

You're right.

I was the first one to come on here and I was like, I'm gonna learn how to edit. I'm gonna do previews as promotional pieces. Nobody was doing that. Nobody had like a set like this where there was not a mic shoved in your face and headphones. And so I just wanted to make it very relaxed. Yeah, I mean, and so—

Well, I—

And now, like, everybody's doing it, which is great, you know, lifted the whole industry, right?

I told myself, I was like, you know, I'm going to tell Sean, just— I know you've been lied to a lot. So my number one goal is just not to lie today. You know what I'm saying, brother?

Thank you.

So try to eliminate some of that, you know, like, because I saw your interview, man, I laughed so hard. I can't imagine.

Yeah, I should have expected it.

Well, I— my biggest mistake in life, I think, is my trusting nature. To me, yeah, characteristic is to trust people, latch on to people quickly and become friends, and a chameleon, kind of like, oh yeah, we're best friends now. And I mean it, it's authentic, but, but man, it's crushed me.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

You know, my— but you know McAfee, what John McAfee, he once told me, he said, son, you could be a billionaire He goes, but you got one problem. He said, you could be such a good businessman. I said, sir, you name it and I will, I will kill it right now. And I, because I want that success. You name my problem and I'll get rid of it. I swear to God. He goes, I'm sorry, son. You, you, there's no getting rid of this one. And I said, tell me and I'll get rid of it. And he says, no. And I said, what then? He said, it's your heart. He said, that's what's gonna, he said, that's what's gonna get in the way and you won't become as successful as you could be. And he was right, because I have these loyalty things still, and I'm better at it now. But once he said, you know, your biggest problem, Jimmy? I said, what, sir? He could look right through you and tell you about your whole life. He said, you lift people on a pedestal so high, so far above you, that eventually you can't hold anymore, and they just fall on you and crush you.

And I mean, that was pretty much what I did to my ex-wife. I would hold people, and that's what McAfee did to me.

He did that?

Um, what's that?

He would— he would— he cared about people.

McAfee cared— he, he was very untrusting and didn't trust anybody, even his own wife, because, because she came to him. If you came to McAfee, he couldn't trust you. She was a prostitute in Miami. Right when he came back from Belize from being on the run, he sat down and she approached him with her friend. And he said, what are you two women up to tonight? And they said, well, we've come to rob old white rich men. And he says, okay, you can stay because you told me the truth, and your friend could leave. And so everybody came to him, even his Green Beret security guards were able to contact him and stuff. So I was the only one that he reached out to. I didn't know him.

Yeah.

He reached out to me, and that's where— and so the trust. So no matter what, no matter how paranoid he got about me, no matter if he called me a spy, no matter if he saw me take a letter from somebody outside, even if it's the lawn bill, he couldn't— he had— that's the one thing he— that I was different was that I had never approached him. And I would remind him of that. I said, sir, I— you reached out to me. So he'd be like, fair enough.

Do you still think that little piece of advice is true, that you won't find extreme success because you're a good person, because you have a heart, because you lift people up, because you care about people?

I'm afraid so.

Really?

You think that?

I mean, how do you define success?

Yeah. How do we define— how do I define success? I think success for me is lighting the torches of other people and getting my charge from that. If I can actually change somebody's life with my story or the lighthouse mission of mine, then that will charge me up. Right. But let's get real. Success to me right now is— I mean, we'd be making millions of dollars, the American, what everybody wants. Right. there's still that in me.

Yeah.

You know, I've made millions of dollars before and totally crashed and burned, ruined it. I've had opportunities, Sean, opportunities of a life, and I've ruined them. So this time I told God, this time, if or when you decide it's time again, I'm gonna do it your way, because Jimmy's way is a road to hell.

I think you could still find all that and be a good person.

100%.

Because, yeah, you know, yeah, well, maybe he's made billions. I don't know what the guy was worth, to be honest. What was he worth?

Maybe, maybe people call him a billionaire, but he probably— he sold McAfee for $700 million to— yeah, $700 million.

So between all the investments and stuff afterwards, I'm sure he probably hit the billion mark. I don't know. You know what I mean? I think it's a longer path, like just— and I'm nowhere even, even in that realm.

I don't know. I've seen your setup, Sean. I know.

But, but I do well. But it's— I just think it's a longer road, man. I mean, when I started this, I never made it about me, you know what I mean? It was always about somebody else. And I saw everybody's business that I brought on just raced right past mine because of my business, you know what I mean?

Right.

And, um, I mean, they were able to take it and run, you know what I mean, and develop something massive. But a lot of them never would have got the exposure if it wasn't for this, you know? And, and yeah, I used to, I used to just think to myself like, dude, what am I doing wrong here? I'm paying in time and my money in, in, in my heart and soul, you know what I mean, to lift these other guys up who came, who would never get this type of exposure. And, uh, but just— but I knew I was doing a good thing, and I knew they deserved it, you know what I mean? And, and I, I loved doing it, and I still do. I still get way more out of that than the financial aspect. But I just knew, I was like, if I just keep doing it If you just keep pumping enough good into the world, it's gonna come back around. And it took about, what, 2, 3 years and it came back around.

Well, it came back around huge. You got the number 1 show or number 2 show bouncing back and forth.

Yeah, we're in top 5.

That's crazy.

But, uh, so I don't know, man. Just keep that in mind. I'm sure screwing everybody over and not having a heart and, and, and no feelings and all that kind of stuff I think it's a much faster track, right? But I think it leads to an empty soul, which isn't success anyways, right?

It's a fast track. Um, but one thing it taught me, Sean, was forgiveness. Um, I had to walk through a tremendous amount of forgiveness of my ex, uh, you know, for taking a ton of Bitcoin and money and all kinds of stuff. And, you know, think about every time Bitcoin goes up, right? When it's at a huge dip right now, but when it goes up, I had like I had like 100 Bitcoin at one time. Like I have—

You had 100 Bitcoin, brother?

I had, brother, I, I'm not joking when I talk about money. I, you know, and, and I had so much. And so every time Bitcoin goes up, can you imagine? I have zero now. Can you imagine like the feelings of that? But so that's where I walk out that forgiveness piece. But God taught me some lessons. McAfee taught me lessons, and that I, I take into my life now. that's created success, I consider success. Um, and those— and there's been a lot of life lessons, you know.

I'll bet.

You know, I'll bet.

So you got a book, you're writing a book?

Yeah, it's, it's been a— it's been like a— look what happened. So I got my story out there and, um, one of these big publishing companies picked it up, uh, a major one, 2 words, something and something. Um, I won't put their name out, but they offered a big advance. for my story, and I needed it, Sean.

Mm-hmm.

I, I don't have the Bitcoin anymore. I don't have the money anymore. So I need it. I got my little baby. This is just a couple years ago. Uh, and I said, okay, okay. And my agent was like, it's gonna happen. But they— and it was about to be sent. They said, they just need one little change to your story. They need to tweak it a little bit. I said, okay, let me know. I'll put the delete— hit the delete button. And they said, well, it's kind of the part about Jesus, how he met you, And I said, oh, no deal. I said, no deal. I said, I guess I'll have to write this sucker on my own.

Why, why do they always want that out?

They want it out because it's the truth.

That's crazy.

They want the truth out to keep us guessing and keep us distorted and disillusioned.

It'll probably be that much bigger.

I mean, well, that's why it's only $9, because I wrote it. Hold fast, man.

But I mean, they did it to Mel Gibson.

Yeah, The Passion.

You know, they— nobody would fund him. Nobody would fund the guy. You know, everybody, they went after him. All those attacks, everything. They'll never watch it. Like, just discouraged him and tried to destroy him. And then the movie wound up breaking the record. It was like, what, $600 million movie or something? The Passion?

Yeah.

And it hasn't been broken until— I think it's just been the last couple years. It was undefeated with inflation for like 20— I think it's like 20-something years.

My goodness.

You know what I mean?

Dang.

And they all self-funded, just self-published.

Yeah, I'm doing self-published. And no, I don't know what I'm doing most of the time, but, but, um, I have— I, I know how to tell a story at least, and I can put it on paper. And my wife has been really encouraging to do it. She said, Jimmy, you got to get this story. You got to get your story out to people. And— but I didn't. But I always said, Sean, if If you're gonna— if you're— if a book is gonna come out, somebody else needs to write about you. Jesus, Hitler, Gandhi, Martin Luther. If you're that important— McAfee, baby— if you're that important, somebody writes a book about you. You don't write a book about yourself. So this is not a book about myself. It may seem like a little bit, but that's just to tell the breadcrumbs to the redemption. Cool.

When's this coming out?

December 21st.

Oh, it's coming this year.

People can preorder it, but it's coming out this year, December 21st.

Right on, man.

Right on.

Well, we're going to do somewhat of a life story on you right here.

Yeah, man. I'm so excited. And Sean, I realize you could have anybody on this show. DT, big Donald Trump. And so when your awesome team called me and gave me this opportunity, I said— they said, well, do you have some time available?

Like I'm real busy, right?

Let me check my schedule. And I'm like, I will go there tonight in my underwear to go on Sean Ryan's show because I've been praying for an opportunity to get my story out on a larger scale.

Well, one, I'm glad you brought some clothes with you.

No underwear tonight.

It's an honor to have you here, man. Surely.

Thank you, Sean.

All right, so I'm going to give you an introduction here. Jimmy Watson, you're a former Marine, Blackwater contractor, Navy SEAL, and former head of security, CEO, and confidant to the technology icon John McAfee. In 2017, after years of war, covert operations, addiction, and personal loss, you entered McAfee's world and quickly became part of his inner circle, living through the paranoia, constant movement, and legal chaos surrounding him. After leaving McAfee and reaching the darkest point of your life, you found your way back to God. Today, You use that experience to help guide others towards faith, purpose, and a way out of their own darkness. And most importantly, obviously, you're a Christian, a father, and a husband.

Yes, sir.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you, Sean. Thank you, everybody.

So before we get started here, we got a couple of things to, uh, crank out here. One, Everybody gets these Vigilance League gummy bears.

Vigilance League gummy bears. All right.

Made in the USA. So yeah, when I was in my attic—

This is great, man.

We couldn't get any advertisers. Nobody would touch me. Nobody would talk to me.

But now—

So we made Vigilance League gummy bears to sell.

Dang, man.

And, uh, and they were wildly successful. And we started a Patreon account.

And what, what's all in this? What if I eat them all at one time? What will happen tonight in my hotel room?

Uh, you'll get a sugar high.

That's your sugar high?

Yeah, nothing crazy.

Yeah, this is great. Thank you, Sean.

And then we got a Patreon account. So as I was saying, they've been with me since the beginning when I was in the attic. And right now, dude, uh, they've been with us the whole time. And so they're the reason that I get to sit down with you here today. And so they get the opportunity to ask every single guest a question.

I love this.

So this is from Michael. Our constitutional system begins with a simple premise: governmental power ultimately derives from the people. So if you had the opportunity to speak from the heart to every American today, what would you impart to us about your own civic responsibility to turn this ship around together? by majority and actually become the change we keep demanding outside of ourselves?

Well, that's a good one. That's a good one. Um, I, I, I would start by getting on your knees. And I don't mean to turn this into— my dad always said, you know, religion is the worst thing that happened to Christianity. So remove religion out of it. I'm talking about a real, a real no-joke meet with Jesus. We called it in the SEAL Teams, remember? A guy would get in trouble. And you say, oh dude, you're done, bro. You meet with Jesus. He's having a meet with Jesus. And it was like, you know, like he kicked in the door at the Disneyland retreat because he was so drunk he thought somebody took his family hostage, right? Well, you know, a meet with Jesus is when, uh, for me, is, is when you kind of come to your senses and, and you come out of your own delusions of grandeur and you go, God, just like my mom used to say, always pray, Jimmy, as you go on your life. And I wasn't religious. I wasn't following Jesus. She said, always pray that you won't be self-deceived. So pray first that you won't be self-deceived. If you— even if you're not praying to your God, whatever, pray that you won't be self-deceived.

Because, um, we can be self-deceived to the point where we're so disillusioned. We're fighting online. We're fighting among our friends. We're fighting amongst each other. There's these vet wars going on, all this weird stuff. And the whole time there's the people up at the top laughing at us and going, good job, keep it divisive. Anytime I see people fighting each other, anytime that I get involved in fighting people, I'm like, dude, this is exactly what they want. The government wants us— McAfee, you say the governor, the governor, that's the governor on your car from keeping you going faster. It's governing you. It's governing it. So here we are. We're divisive. Our nation is falling apart. We're, we're in an economic crisis and people don't really realize it. But you go to the grocery store, men are feeling inadequate about themselves because they're like, why, why can't I be like this guy? Why can't I have success? Well, it's not your fault. You're working your ass off. You— there's only so many hours in a day. The problem is the economy. The economy is destroyed. We're in an economic crisis. And the crisis happens before the collapse.

So I believe that every man must have a reckoning with God first, and then, and then straighten himself out, or he is gonna just be all over the place like I was for so many years, running amok like a tornado.

Mm-hmm.

Coming out, hitting, destroying this, come back up, come over here, ruin this, you know, whatever, self-sabotage. So getting right with ourselves first.

I like that. I like that. It's a good answer to a deep question. Thanks. We're all getting older, and that's not the problem. The problem is when your body starts keeping you from doing the things you still want to do, like taking the best shit of your entire life— training, traveling, long days, workouts, recovery— It adds up, and at a certain point, you start feeling it more. Sore joints, slower recovery, knees that don't feel the way they used to. That's why I take Bubz Naturals Collagen Peptides. Bubz has been a longtime partner of the show, and there's a reason I trust them. It's simple. It works into my routine, and it's a product I actually use. One scoop in my tea every morning. It blends in completely. No taste, no grit, nothing complicated, and that's what I like about it. It's easy to stay consistent with, and consistency is the point. I've been taking it for a while now, and I genuinely notice the difference. My knees feel stronger, my skin looks better, I bounce back faster after workouts, and I enjoy every single shit that I take. Part of why I trust Bubz is how seriously they take the product.

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I'm ready.

All right, where'd you grow up?

I grew up in West Texas, Muleshoe. M-U-L-E-S-H-O-E. Muleshoe. I think Lee Horsley was from there. And but my dad had a 1,000-acre farm.

A 1,000-acre farm?

It was— I think it was almost 2,000, but I checked myself last night. I wanted to say 1,000 so it doesn't sound unbelievable. But it was— but it's dry land, an old farm in West Texas. And there used to be these arrowheads, these flint arrowheads and buffalo bones, maybe Indian bones, I don't know, out on this field every time the wind would blow. And so I had this incredible childhood. Growing up on this farm, like just like The Jungle Book, that little guy Mowgli or whatever. And I would camp by myself and I would dig holes out in the field with my little brother and we would play army and war. We would make Molotov cocktails. My dad let us run amok. There's gasoline over here, tractor over here. We drive around tractors. And all while he was— it was kind of going bankrupt. the farm. It was the old Millshoe Ranch. There was Millshoe Ranch Houses. The original— the originator for the bullwhip, uh, lived there, uh, invented the bullwhip.

Oh, good.

Yeah. And so we would go around and, and burn up pieces of the old ranch house. I mean, this is like museum stuff, and we're over there just destroying everything. But that's where I really learned to shoot, which would help me out, uh. And I can remember my dad tell— rocking me when I was real little in the dark, and he would tell me Bible stories. And I didn't become religious. I wasn't following God. I was running from him most of my life. But those stories would play a major role in my life later on. He would talk about Joseph in the dungeon. And I would later on be able to kind of parallel my life to that in a way, not that I was in a dungeon for 13 years, but that Count of Monte Cristo story, where you feel like you're being betrayed and things are falling apart around you, you're crashed up against the rocks one moment, you're shining in the light the next moment. And so this childhood was— I was kind of sheltered in a way from the world. I didn't know how hard it was going to be, but I had a sense of God.

I had a sense of duty to give back to God and sacrifice my life perhaps for a greater cause and go to war. Even as a little boy, I understood this, as weird as that is. And because— and maybe because my dad would sing the Green Beret song to me, he would play Fighting Souls on the cassette. Sirs in the sand, only 3 will win the Green Beret. And he used to look at me and point at me, my silver wings upon my chest stuff. And so I thought I was a warrior, Sean, from the time I was little.

Did he have military experience?

He was a crop duster for years, a preacher, a judge, a Texas judge. And he was in the Army during Vietnam. But, but he, he was never in Vietnam during Vietnam, '68, '69, I think, for 2 years. And then he got out on a farming hardship. He said, Dad, get me out of here on a farmer's hardship. And so, but for some reason, he put this into me and it was the right thing to do. It saved my life. Or I would have been such a wild kid because I didn't understand school. I wasn't picking up what the other kids were putting down. I was inadequate. I didn't understand what they were saying. Math, numbers. I didn't have any understanding of it. So eventually, at 14 years old, I left school. My dad pulled me out of school. Wow.

At 14?

At 14, maybe 13.

Yeah. Why'd you get pulled out of school?

My dad just came in with—

Specifically?

Well, I had the record for detention hall. I had 99 days in detention. And you just sat there all day in detention. And, you know, they didn't know better back then. And I had the record for swats, for spankings. They used to swat you in Texas.

No kidding.

With a freaking board this big from the woodshop. And I'm talking drill your ass, Sean, so hard. It was the coach and the principal. He was the Texas high school coach and principal, and he would be— and woodshop teacher. And he had a paddle like this. And I can't believe this is— it's even legal back then. But he would bend you over. And me and my little brother got in trouble once, and he said, bend over the thing. And you had those little silky track silkies on. And he hit my brother so hard, he went into the locker headfirst. And I busted out laughing, but it was so loud in that locker room when he hit him. I bust out laughing, but he hit me, and we had big old purple-red welts on our legs, and we thought that was normal. And so eventually my dad said, obviously, Jimmy, it just broke the school's record in detention and SWATs. Let's go ahead and figure something out for Jimmy. Wow. School's not for him. What about your mom? Oh, my mom is this beautiful Coca-Cola model, Braniff stewardess, brought to West Texas by my dad. Deceived.

My dad went on— my dad decided to put everything up, everything away. He was running a Comanche lifestyle like I was, I think. And he said, you know, he gave it all to Jesus one day. And my mom did too at the same time, believe it or not.

Hmm.

They both gave everything up. I am talking about everything, Sean. And my dad literally went on a mission trip to India. He said it was the worst experience of his life. But he said, no, I'm giving everything up to God. Keep in mind, he was a successful pilot, crop duster. I mean, making big bucks back in the day. He had land, everything. He gave everything up, gave his brand new Mustang to a disabled girl in church. And he went on a mission trip to India. And he said, and he was coming back sleeping. Remember Adam in the garden is sleeping. When he, when he wakes up, there's his wife. He comes back from a trip from India. Here's this beautiful stewardess. my mom working for Braniff. And back then it was no joke. It was hundreds and hundreds of women were looked at and you had to keep a certain weight and you had to be the most beautiful model-like girl. And my mom would never go up to him, but he was sleeping and he just came off this terrible trip. He doesn't know why God sent him this terrible mission to India. He said people were literally living in dung houses.

And he said he was coming back and he was sleeping and The preacher woke him up and said, wake up, you know, here's your wife. Your wife's coming down here. He said, ma'am, do you know Jesus? And he had a big red Bible. And my mom was like, well, I just put everything up for him. And I'm on this— she was on a miserable trip. They met and they've been married for 45 years.

No kidding.

Wow. Beautiful relationship.

Still married today?

Still married today. Going hardcore, been strong.

You close with them?

I'm super close to them, Sean, because of what I, what I went through. And they, uh, um, well, I wouldn't be here today. If it wasn't for them, literally, and, you know, I wouldn't be here literally right now if they didn't, uh, if they weren't so caring and didn't take me back in at what, 38 years old when I was on the run. When I got— when I, when I was arrested, they took me back into their house on a $5 million promissory bond.

Wow.

And I always thought if, if I was If I didn't have parents like that to take me in, I would've killed— I would've offed myself so fast. I was so done with life. I would've easily taken myself out. But because of their love, I kept going.

Yeah, man.

Yep.

We'll get to that point.

Yeah. Yeah.

So your dad yanks you out of school.

Hey, yeah, my dad took me out of school, and then my mom tricked me. My mom said, I've got a plan. I'm going to send Jimmy to this summer camp at 14 years old in Austin, Texas, and, uh, and we're gonna— and we're gonna just tell him it's a summer camp. But it was actually like a home, uh, uh, uh, they called it the Texas Bible Institute, and it was basically a place where these 40-year-olds and 30-year-old troubled men in and out of prison would come and stay and work, like out of a work camp. And then the inner-city kids would be bused in from Houston at this big Bible college all summer and all year. And so they tricked me into going. Jimmy, you want to go to summer camp? Yeah. I go there. After a week goes by, I've been cleaning toilets. I mean, hardcore toilets. It's so miserable, Sean. I call my mom on this— they had no cell phones. I called her on the pay phone and I was like, Mom, it's— and it was hot. It's already hot in Austin, Texas. It's brutal in a laundromat. You know, the laundry's going off.

I said, Mom, I said, it's been a week. You told me it's a week. Can you come get me? She goes, Jimmy, you're going to go ahead and stay there now for a while, okay? I gotta go. And I'm like, Mom, what? And this black kid came in and was like, what's up, white honky? Let's go. And it just started banging out right there. Fight right off the bat. Didn't even hang up the phone. I end up cleaning about 100 toilets. I always say 100 toilets, but okay, let's say it was 50. Let's say it was 80, 100, whatever. About 100 toilets a day, if I remember right.

Holy cow.

4 times a day.

4 times a day?

Morning. Yeah, because they were busing in these, um, they were busing in these hundreds and hundreds of, um, from Ninth Ward Houston, these little kids, troubled kids. And I mean, they're just, you know, just shitting on the walls and doing crazy who God only knows what. And just— and so I would— I got it down to 45 seconds a toilet so I could clean a whole toilet. I mean, from the top to the bottom in 45 seconds. And I'm talking flush with the cloth going down in the toilet in 45 seconds. And I mean, that thing, you could eat off that sucker, man.

Wow.

I had 2 big bottles. I was an expert at cleaning toilets. And, and I was also running hard at night with a pack on, like a buck 40, man. I was a really small guy. I was 6 foot, buck 40, and, uh, and, uh, no, no athleticism. Like, the coach My mom and dad begged the coach, high school or the junior high coach, to play me one time. He said, ma'am, I would get kicked out of this school district if I played your son one time on this field. So I'm training hard. I get staph infection and boils all over my body. So it's kind of like a Job, a picture of Job in the Bible, right? Where I'm suffering at such a young age in this camp for a year and a half at least. My mom and dad kept me there. And I got to the point where I was feverish and I had boils. Still got scars today on my arm and stuff from these boils. They would get real heavy and infected, and I even had one on the back of my head. And I really liked this girl. I saw this girl there, she was working there too.

She was pretty and she was sitting behind me, and the one on the back of my head kind of went off, exploded, whatever, on the back. And it was over after that, you know. You ain't never getting a date, dog. You clothes shop, you know.

How old were you when you went to this place?

14 years old.

14 years old.

Turned 15 there. Had my birthday there, and then 16 came around. I was still there, I think. And then it was time to go to the Marine Corps.

The Marine Corps?

Well, I wanted to be a SEAL, but it was so far out there. Remember, I had no education, really. No normal— no real formal education. So, so, I mean, I'm just like, I'm winging it. I mean, I got a 17 on the ASVAB at 16 years old. A 1-7. You can't get any worse than that. on an ASVAB. So it was really, it was really hurtful because I wanted to be a SEAL so bad. I had read these books or a Green Beret or something, but my mind kind of shifted to being a SEAL for some reason at some point. But it started out as Green Beret, my dad saying the Green Beret. Well, when I turned 16, I was able to get the best day of my life, I think, was able to get my GED. So I got my GED. And then my parents signed me in. I was the youngest recruit for probably the last, I mean, maybe 10, 20 years before that. You know, in Vietnam they had younger guys, but I mean, I mean, I'm 16, barely turned 17.

Wow. I didn't even know that was possible.

Yeah, you could. You could. With your parents' signature, you can go in at 17. Wow.

So you're in— you're in Marine Corps boot camp at 17 years old?

At 17 years old.

What'd your parents think? Were they happy you were doing it?

They were so proud of me. Sean, because I mean, I mean, I mean, if you're a kid out, sometimes people say, well, Jimmy, don't you think it's not good for little Johnny to go to the Marine Corps or this or the military right now with all this stuff going on with Israel?

Shut—

what are you talking about? Like, like, if you're— if your kid is, is not going anywhere in life, like the Bandidos once told me, if you ain't got nothing else in this life going on, you better put your kid somewhere or he's a dead man anyways in this day and age. You know, but if they've got something going on, then don't go to the military. That's my, my thing.

What year was this? What year did you join?

'99.

'99.

I signed in '98 and I joined.

Right on, right on. So how was boot camp? How was, uh, Marine Corps?

It was straight up hazing. It was just like Full Metal Jacket. I couldn't believe it.

Did you like it?

I hated it, Sean. It was terrible. They, they— I remember literally thinking in my head, Sean, I was like, well, at least they can't put their hands on you. And right when I thought that, and they're screaming at the— I've never heard guys scream like this. They were like, like veins sticking out. And there are some of them, they're like, like a frog, you know, because they're ruining their vocal cords. And I remember thinking, well, one, there's no way they can keep this tempo up. And number two, there's no way they could put their hands on you. So therefore, I can make it through anything. Right when I thought that, I swear to you, the drill instructor turned around, Staff Sergeant McNulty, we called him McNutty. He turned around and he goes, who's the youngest recruit in here? And I go, just stupidly, just automatic response, I go, I am, because I knew I was. I said, I am, drill instructor, Staff Sergeant McNulty. And he came over there and slugged me in my— so like right here in the sternum. But yeah, sternum. And I buckled over and I remember just There was nothing left in my lungs.

I was like, and I just go, and he goes, get up. And they kept that pace up and they put their hands on us all the time. And that was 2 big mistakes I made early on in life.

What'd you go in to do?

0311 Infantry Marine.

Nice.

Oh yeah, I picked a way, you know, 0311. And, uh, and remember, there's no war, but I know I'm going to war in my mind. I've got it all planned out. I even told my dad, he goes, Jimmy, wars are not fought— people have to remember, you know, 20 years ago, whatever, people didn't think we were going to war again. They had Desert Storm and some other stuff. Anyways, um, my first deployment's on the USS Tarawa, old ship, and a big old LHA carrier with the, you know, carries like 3,000 troops. All you do is Yeah, all you do is stand in line in chow hall line all day. And, um, uh, and my first deployment was to USS, uh, when the USS Cole got bombed. We, we—

Oh, no kidding.

Yeah, we happened to be going right by it, right by the Yemen harbor, Aden, Gulf of Aden. Literally right when it happened, we were 20 miles away and we just turned our entire force, our view I think it was 15th MEU, maybe 35th, I can't remember. But we turned our MEU and we got on the little black rubber boats. We thought we were special, you know, with M16s and stuff. And, uh, uh, because I was in a platoon they called the Dirty Dozen, and they had a STAY attached to us, the snipers. Uh, and, uh, but we did circles around the— that was my first experience with death, the smell of death, war, like anything like that. I remember seeing the hole in the side of the USS Cole. And I thought, we're going to war over this.

I thought, damn. No shit. You were there, huh?

I was there. Recovered the bodies.

You recovered the bodies?

Uh, the divers recovered the bodies and we would put them into— they would either put the body, the parts in the— and I say this respectfully— put the parts in the body bag and then we would pick it up, the body bag, put it into the boat and then carry it to shore. And freezer trucks were there. And when they opened that door to the freezer trucks, man, it was so bad. And there wasn't even any bodies in it. I don't understand that. But we stood at attention and we would carry this— these body bags would just kind of droop to the center because it was nothing but pieces of people, these 17 sailors.

Sheesh.

And I thought, Sean, I thought, man, this is terrible. It was horrible. Something that I've never experienced in my life at such a young age. It was my first real experience with it, and I thought, we're going to go to war over this. Something bad's going to happen with this.

Damn.

How long were you there for?

How long did that—

Maybe 30 days.

30 days?

40 days. Because the Blue Marlin— they called in the Blue Marlin to come in. It was a massive ship, and it had to sink down and go underneath the USS Cole and come back up. And the Blue Marlin towed it away.

Interesting. Where do you go from here?

Keep doing the deployment. Go on from there. I can't remember where. We went all over the place. And then we came back. And now this is about 9 months. Remember, less than maybe a year happens. from the Cole attack to 9/11. And I always thought 9/11 happened because we didn't do anything about the USS Cole. That's what my reasoning was. And still kind of, whatever, it doesn't really matter, I guess. But I came back and immediately was sent on another deployment. And usually you get a break, but they just put me right back on another ship, back-to-back deployments. So we went out And, uh, as we were out, we were right near Australia, uh, and we got off the boat, we were partying, and the shore police started running past us and grabbing Marines, drunk Marines, and, and said, get back to the ship, get back to the ship, yelling, we've just been attacked. And that's when 9/11 happened.

Sheesh.

And so, yeah, and so we were literally That's us. We were literally the first Marines, first Marine Division, uh, that were deployed to Pakistan first to secure an airfield that was secret at the time. And, um, that was so that the TACPs— that was so the pararescue could stage there for the bombings that would ensue in Afghanistan. And then we picked up shop after 10 days of there. And, uh, deployed straight into Camp Rhino south of Kandahar from the USS Peleliu. And so I was maybe the 7th guy on the ground. I always like to say that. Wow. As a Marine, but the Rangers beat us there.

Damn. How did that feel?

It was, uh, ice cold, you know.

Excited about it?

So crazy in there. Crazy excited. I was so excited, Sean. I because I knew I was meant for something, you know. And to see, to see that fulfilled, even if I could be mentally wrong about that, it happened. So coincidence or not, I knew I was in the right place, you know. But I think I heard one of your interviews recently where you were like, you know, the SEALs wasn't what I thought it was going to be. And that's exactly what I felt. I, I found myself Just, I was lacking and I wanted real combat. But my deployment to Afghanistan was so boring. I think we killed a massive herd of camels that were coming into our wire at night. We just destroyed the camels. We did long-range patrols, just little to nothing, nothingness. And so I get out of the Marine Corps. I can't believe my experience. I'm like, I thought I was going to go to war. I thought we were going to be there like World War III. We got relieved. I got sent home after 7 months. So here I am back at Camp Horno, and I'm like, hell no. At Camp Horno, it means— I think it's oven in Spanish.

It's a hell. It's a terrible place. It's 1st Marine Division. The Frozen Chosen were stationed there. That was like our older brothers. And so I get out, Sean. I'm done with the Marine Corps. I've got to go to the SEALs or something. I've got to press forward and find that.

That battle that was still on your head, huh?

Yeah, but I was real disappointed because what happened, Sean, with me, and I think this is what happens to some veterans, is I found myself lying to people about my deployment. People would say, Jimmy, you were the first over there to Afghanistan, and I mean, you went and fought for our country. How many people did you kill? And I'd be like, dude, I, I don't want to talk about it. It was, it was crazy, man. It was I found myself— I mean, here I am, what, a 19-year-old kid, and people are like talking about how I'm a hero for going over there and spending time, and you must have saw crazy stuff, action. And I'm— and I found myself saying, you know what, I, I— yeah, I, I saw action over there. It was, it was really— but it was just this longing for like self— to validate myself as a man.

Mm-hmm.

Like, I wanted validation. And so I wasn't outright saying I killed, I got confirmed kills, but I was literally like, yeah, bro, it was— we were getting attacked all the time. It was crazy. And I left it at that. Like, like, I don't want to talk about it type thing. And that's how, like, desperate it was, you know?

Yeah. Damn. So, so you got out?

Got out. Yeah, got out. Yeah, Sean got out. And, um, Ended up, uh, I, I, I— my goal is to do the SEALs, but you know how things start to linger around, you start put it off. I had a lot of doubts about myself still. I mean, I had a lot of doubts about myself. I had no formal schooling. I felt I failed the SEAL test now twice, by the way.

Um, and, uh, you took the SEAL test when you were in?

I took the SEAL test before the Marines.

Okay.

Right out of— you remember the, the terrible place of cleaning toilets? So I went and took the SEAL test and I got a 17 on my ASVAB. Uh, not— I, I took the PST, which I bombed.

Yeah.

You know, the run and all that, not even close. And then the ASVAB was a terrible score. So I'd already taken that, and now I'm out of the Marines and, uh, I'm in my dad's living room on the farm, the old West Texas farm, and, uh, I turn on his TV And there's— and it's like a nightmare for me. I see my junior Marines, 3/1, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, the Thundering Third, just stomping through Fallujah. The big push, Operation Phantom Fury.

Oh, man.

And here it is. Those are my guys. Those are my guys. And I see them fighting in Fallujah. I wanted to die.

So this was what, 2003?

Yeah, 2003 and '04, right into '03, up into—

yep.

And so my dad comes in and he catches me watching this, and I'm just like paralyzed. And I'm drinking Pisano out of a big jug. I'm drinking his wine. I'm talking about going on Prozac and seeing a psychologist. And my dad's like, what the hell are you talking about? He said, put down my bottle of wine. And I put it— I put it down. He says, Prozac? He goes, Jimmy, Jimmy, what are you talking about? He goes, you don't need Prozac, you don't need alcohol, you don't need a psychologist. He goes, you need to go find your war. And so, uh, I really took that to my heart, Sean.

What did that mean? Actual war?

I don't know. I, I think it just meant go find your war. Like, go find what, what gives you that energy and juice, man, because this life is going to be over real soon. Here I'm 45, Sean. You know, I was that 17-year-old kid not too long ago. And to me, Sean, it meant go find a war. You better get your ass into action. So I'm rambunctious still. I have a lot of doubts about myself. So I go, okay, you're right, Dad. I'm going all in. I'm going to go to the SEALs. I take the test again, the ASVAB, and I'm just sweating it, Sean. I got test anxiety. I mean, the last time I made a I think I took it twice before, 17 to 38. Now this time it was a 48, and but you could get 1 point waivered to 49. And, uh, so she, she says, oh, you get 1 point waivered to 49, but I needed a 50. And I said there, Sean, and I begged this, this old lady that had marked my test up, she'd hand graded it, I begged her to give me that point. I said, please, I'll do anything, you know.

And she was like, I'm sorry, son, I can't. And so, man, I was just— I was pretty devastated over that. And so I was walking out of the, of the, the room there, and this guy, it looked like a shadow with medals upon his chest, the silver wings, the beret. It was, uh, I guess he was a— he was a Green Beret, but a recruiter or something. But he's standing there, big jack dude. And he— I walked by, I had my head down like this. And he grabbed me like that, like stopped me. And I said, what, man? And he goes, hey, he goes, today's not your day, but maybe tomorrow is. I said, what does that— I said, what does that mean? He said, man, maybe the SEALs is not for you now, but maybe you go to a place called Blackwater and then you go to the SEALs later on. He goes, you know what I'm talking about? I said, Blackwater? I said, what is that? Is that like the Rhodesian SAS? Because I had read all about these different rogue mercenary stuff and things, but I had heard about Blackwater just barely.

This is 2004. And he goes, yeah, just go apply to Blackwater. They're doing crazy stuff right now, man. And I go, okay, well, how do I apply? He said, go get on Google or whatever. I can't remember how. I put my resume in, just this bullet point list of a bunch of bullshit, you know. Uh, and I— but I get accepted to go to the vetting process in Blackwater, Moyock, North Carolina. Eric Prince is there. I mean, it's brand new. It's not— it's not a target factory still, but it's, it's pretty dang new.

What'd you think of that place? Did you go there?

Yeah, I went there. Obviously, I went to the vetting process. I went, I went through all— it was hard, brother.

What program was this? Was this the WHIPS program?

WHIPS 1 and WHIPS 2. I went through WHIPS 1 and 2. Yeah.

What's the difference?

Uh, WHIPS 2 is not like some test. You just come back. We— I was in Iraq when they made us go through WHIPS 2. I don't even know what that stands for anymore, but you come back, you get qualified WHIPS 2 classes. But the first one The first one, WHIPS 1, was the, the vetting course for Blackwater. And that one, I started maybe with 30 guys and we ended with maybe 10. 10. It was very challenging. We— I heard your interview about the CIA interview, that your vetting process, and you were talking about the shooting, the, the, the shooting course and how difficult it was. I don't think ours was as hard as yours, but I It sounded just like that, how hard it was. It was very difficult.

Interesting. So this is the State Department contract?

Diplomat. Yep. Department of State diplomatic mission, Blackwater.

So how old were you when you went to that?

I was, uh, um, were you even 21 yet? Oh yeah, you were. I was 23.

23?

23. Yeah, because Nisar was 27. Yeah, 4 years.

How long were you doing that for?

4 years. So I, I graduated the vetting process. I was in Class 15 and—

Oh, wow. You were in there early. Yeah.

Yeah. Our, our, our instructors were the Karzai detail.

Okay.

And Brimmer. Brimmer was still with Ma, but Brimmer and Karzai. And so our guys were Green Berets and SEALs and stuff, instructors. And so you talk about a chip on their shoulders. They looked at us like nothing. The very first day the guy came in, they called him the Angel of Death because he would just come in and read your name off at the end of the night and you just got in the van and gone like you were done. And so it was really pressure. I was all in. I'd already failed the SEAL thing, but I had matured a lot. at that point and made it through the course. And they asked me at graduation, they asked me, when do you want to go to Iraq? And I said, now. And so they flew me out, like, literally the next day from Virginia. And I went from Virginia to Germany, Frankfurt, Frankfurt to Jordan, Amman, Jordan. And that's where my Blackwater time really kicks off crazy.

What do you mean crazy?

Well, uh, in Jordan, I walk in and there's this guy at the bar and he's got tattoos everywhere. He's got cut here around his neck and his scissors like tattooed on his neck. And he looks like maybe a former biker or something, but he was a Marine and he was there for that on that contract as well, the DOS contract. And, um, I meet him. I said, you, you here for Blackwater? He's like, yeah. You knew? I said, yeah, he's— he was new too. So we're both new. So we swim buddied up at the bar there, drank all night. The next day we get on a little— we get on an airplane, a Twin Lakota. I think it's called a Twin Lakota 80, something like that. 2 big diesel turboprop engines, not some big plane or anything. And I've told this story before and people are like, dude, there's no way you were in Blackwater. We didn't— we didn't insert like that.

I'm like, yeah, because you weren't in in the early years.

I'm talking about the Wild Wild West here, dog. And so me and him, maybe another guy got on there with our bags and they flew, I mean, like 1,000 feet over the desert from Jordan. It was really low. You could look out the window and you're just flying across the desert fast. And then right when we got up to Baghdad, we went straight up in the air, like as high as that sucker could go before it almost stalled out. This guy was a white ponytail pilot, probably a Vietnam pilot. And we went straight up as high as you can go till the bird almost stalled out. And then he went straight down like a corkscrew right over the airfield. I remember the airfield just going like this. And he went like, doo. And I guess some kind of anti-surface-to-air missile defense maneuvers just to drop right down on it. But as we were coming down, I remember looking outside in Baghdad. You saw these black plumes of smoke coming up. It kind of looked like hell in a way. But for me, it was, it was just beautiful. It was a wonderful time because I felt like invigorated, like my life was— I found my war.

Yeah.

So I get off the airplane with this guy with a tattoo on his neck. And I always say that you had a 50/50 chance in Blackwater, a 50% survival rate. Because the reason why I say that is I got off the plane with this guy and, and they— there's this rogue ragtag team. They didn't even have— some of the trucks weren't even armored, Sean. Still, they had the metal cages that would shift and lock you in there. You could burn alive. That happened. And so this rogue team picks us up. We go down Route Irish, Route Irish Death Road. the 6 miles to the, you know, you know, to the man camp. And, uh, they open the door and he gets out first, the guy with the tattoo on the neck. And we're in the man camp and I get out right after him. We're brand new guys. And again, a guy says, you— and he points at the guy, Bryce, his name, tattoo on the neck. He goes, you, you're going to Mosul. And he looked at me, he goes, you're staying here. And so I stayed. 2 days later, Um, I hear a guy talk about a team that just got blown to smithereens in Mosul.

In 2 days?

2 days later. And I'm, I'm listening and I'm like, what the heck? And one of them was like, what are you— didn't you come in with the guy with a tattoo on his neck? And I said, yeah. They said, you know, the whole team's dead. They said, but him, the guy with a tattoo on his neck, the new guy, because he was the trunk monkey They put him right in the back, just told him to lay down and shut up. Uh, he was blown out the back and a piece of shrapnel went right here in his neck. He had to get a tracheotomy, flown out to Germany, but he lived. I still talk to him.

You still talk to him?

Yeah, because when I told the story, I had lost contact.

He reached out? Yeah, he goes, bro, somebody— he heard it. Damn, that's crazy how that happens, isn't it?

Yeah, we've had a bunch of that kind of stuff happen. Oh, I bet you've been all kinds of reunion connections doing this.

Oh yeah, all kinds of people, you know, like yourself telling, telling their story, and then somebody will reach us, right? Like, I was with Chris Van Zandt, was one. I think that— I think it was the— I can't remember, somebody that was on the ship that was artillery informant. Like, it happened. It happens all the time. Yeah, it's cool to see it happen. I was the pilot on that, right? I was this, I was the Like, it's just, it's really cool to see those connections happen.

Yeah. And it's, it's kind of, it's one good thing about social media, you know, you can, you can reconnect with people.

So what, what are you thinking? I mean, you get, brother, upset because you didn't see any combat as a Marine, and then you go to this, and 2 days later, keep in mind, we're getting killed.

Yeah. Keep in mind, I'm completely brainwashed.

Yeah.

I'm completely disillusioned. Like, you know, uh, You know, people are— people on social media will say, oh yeah, you know, you're a bootlicker. It's like, yeah, bro, like, you try, try actually doing it and being over there and doing what I did, you know? So I'm— what I'm thinking, Sean, is I'm thinking, dude, this is the most exciting time of my life. Like, I can't even imagine this mindset now that I have a kid and that I've, that I've grown out of this. But at the time, I was all in. And most people were pro going into Iraq because we had nuclear bombs.

Right.

So I'm all in, but I can't help but notice, like, The, the, the amount of money that it has to fuel this war train. The, the— remember the concrete walls? Like, you could pave 10 highways in America with the concrete that they poured around the Green Zone. Uh, the, the tanks just to keep them alive, and, uh, which the insurgents were defeating and destroying. So, um, here I am. I start running with my new Blackwater team. in the same position, the old trunk monkey. They put— they say, you know, lay down, shut up, just observe and, and survive. And so we go out the first day out of the wire, and, uh, the, the— I remember the driver was just— had this ragtag red beard and, and just long hair, and he's smoking a cigarette with the, the window down, and a freaking round just smashed center mass into his window, and it just armored glass, and he just shattered— boom— just shattered the front window. And the guy never flinched and just kept smoking, and nobody said a word. Kind of like, it was kind of like, whoa, like that, like, whoa. And I'm going, what do you mean, whoa?

Like what? Like, dude, we just got freaking blasted, dog, like in the face. And, and literally never said a word about it. The debrief, it was like, yeah, that was kind of crazy, smoking still. And I'm just like, this is going to be rough, you know?

Jeez.

So I had to grow up fast there.

So what was the— I mean, I know what the mission was, but what, for the audience, what were you— what was the purpose?

Well, people are always like, oh, it's a mercenary. Well, okay, you could call it whatever you want, but it's not really, because I did that later on in life. It's more of a, uh, it's a— it's under the Department of State. You got a black diplomatic passport. They had to justify you being under this contract for the Department of State. So they had to make us official first. So they gave us the rank of GS-16. They gave us black diplomatic passports. They made us official, hominis dominus. Now you are this guy who just— you're basically trading in your military uniform for civilian clothes and a beard. And now you have machine guns running around all crazy, belt-fed machine guns.

Mm-hmm.

And but the mission was to basically take diplomatic members from the Department of State, whether that's Condoleezza Rice, Dick Cheney, the undersecretaries, whoever that be, onto their little— their coffee meetings, to be honest. Downtown Baghdad, Iraq. Risk an entire team just so that they can go have a little photo op or meet and greet. That's basically what it was. To all the ministries. And they were doing crazy stuff, Sean. when I first showed up. I mean, stuff that would blow people's minds.

Like what?

Like the very first— like my, my very first week or two in, in my first team, they were like, hey, we need 2 volunteers. And of course I'm like, always, always, always volunteer for everything. I want to see the action. And they're like, you're going to— tomorrow you're going to meet with the Little Birds. You're going to get on a Little Bird with your partner, your swim buddy. They're going to fly you downtown Baghdad. drop you off on a ministry, one of the ministries, by ourselves, me and another guy, 2 Blackwater guys. And then they leave. They just drop you off, leave. And, you know, you're going to secure it, you know, find the exits, you know, find the entries and the exits, secure it, radio us in, and then we're going to come in with the team. So you're like an advance party. You're first in, last out type of thing. And I remember I was like, the team leader said, hey, make sure you take these grenades. We weren't supposed to have grenades in Blackwater, but we had it all. He said, take these grenades with you in this bag. He goes, take some extra water, take this map.

He said, and bro, don't get caught. Don't get caught alive. He said, shoot yourself, dog. Like, don't, don't, don't go out like that. You know what I mean? And I was like, yeah, I got you. I got you. So he was basically saying, you know, don't, don't get caught alive. Yeah, if they, if they get you, what are you thinking about that? I was— I, I thought about it long and hard, and I was like, no matter what happens, Sean, if, if I get surrounded downtown Baghdad, me and this other guy, this Blackwater guy, and, and we get stormed, which eventually happened to 2 Aegis guys and their heads were found floating in the Tigris River, um, if I get stormed, I'm gonna— I'm never gonna— I'm never gonna shoot my pistol much. I may shoot like maybe like 5 times, pop, pop, pop, pop, and then turn it on myself. So I make sure that I have a round for myself. That was my plan because I didn't want to go out like that, you know. I didn't want to be caught and, and tortured, you know. Um, but they, but they were doing these missions like this as an advance.

Me and another guy all day long, sometimes sitting in the Ministry of Oil by ourselves. Until eventually, you remember Aegis? Yeah.

I mean, I don't know much about it.

2 guys, a British contracting company. They— 2 guys from there got there, were kidnapped doing a similar thing.

I did not know that.

And they were— their heads were found about 2 months later in the Tigris.

2 months later?

Yeah, it was a long time later. I was there with my girlfriend watching the news, and they said they found those guys' heads in the river. So who knows what happened to them? Horrible stuff. Damn, damn horrible stuff. And so I started, Sean, doing all the positions I could. I volunteered for everything. Some of the hardest positions is driving, try, you know, being a tactical driver, being just, you know, and I didn't like that too much because you had to hit cars and, and, and they had these massive bumpers welded onto the front of these trucks and these Hummers and these, these, um SUVs, and they were all— they looked like abstract art with colors all over the bumpers from just smashing into cars. So blue, red, whatever, white car, and that bumper would open up a car like a can opener. If like a van would— a van, because, you know, they're terrible drivers there. You could die for a small traffic infraction in Iraq. I always was amazed by that. You know, KIF, KIF, you keep going forward. You know, our rules of engagement were extremely loose.

What were they?

Do you remember them? Oh yeah, I remember very, very specifically. It was, um, if I feel like my life is in danger or my team or my— the equipment, um, deadly force is authorized. No questions, no warning shots were allowed. Uh, That's it.

It was the early days, man.

That was early days. We were— I literally would write down, I killed 2 military-aged men today on, um, on whatever route we were on, on the back of an MRE card and turn it in. They'd say, Jimmy, we need your— we need your report. I said, I'm tired, I don't want to go up there to the embassy. They said, well, write it down on the back of this MRE card. They tore off a piece and I literally wrote it down. I killed 2 military-age men in a white Corolla today. And it was happening all the time because you couldn't risk— you couldn't risk getting vaporized. Like, people don't understand a VBIED going off. I can't remember how many thousand-pound bomb that is. Maybe 2,000-pound bomb. I can't remember.

A VBIED?

Yeah. Or 500.

Well, I don't think it matters.

I think it doesn't matter.

Vehicle-borne IED.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But, but they always have like a certain amount of, you know, um, weight to them with the explosion. And man, that sucker gets 300 feet from you or closer, it's over. So what do you do?

Yeah.

You know, so you turn into a— uh, so you— our mentality was basically like, no matter what, you're coming home. No matter what. And it's me or them. And you saw guys buckle up and they got— they would get fired.

How many— I mean, how long were you there before you started seeing people kill people? Was it immediate?

Yeah, it was immediate. It was almost immediate. Well, my buddy, he got injured, and then maybe my second time out, I was in the trunk monkey spot. Oh, man, you just reminded me of this. I haven't thought of this in years. Uh, I was in the trunk monkey spot with my, my squad automatic weapons, and we rounded this corner and we were in the hate truck. That's the, the, the back truck, you know, like a shark in the back. And these guys were D-ringed in and in, you know, facing me, uh, left and right door gunner. And I think his name was Paul, or he was an ex-SEAL, and he was a really great guy. But, uh, We went around this corner right into the venue. Right as we were going into the venue, you don't want anything to happen right at the venue gate. It's like a nightmare. And right as we were turning in, he opened that door and he leaned out and just let that saw just rip off like that. And I saw a taxi just slam into a light pole. And I was seeing this stuff. I'm like, oh my God.

And I, I remember looking in and the guy like literally like I know I haven't seen this before, but it was literally like pumping blood out of these holes, individual holes in him, the taxi driver. And then we pulled into the venue and the gate closed kind of, but was open. And we got out and my team leader's like, what the hell happened? What's up? It's always chaos. Hey, this car came in on us, man. I'm sorry. I thought it was a VBIED. And that was perfectly justified. And this is the rules of the Department of State. And I'm standing there, and my first experience with, with, with crazy stuff like this is this guy comes in and he's stitched up, but he's walking and bleeding everywhere. And he comes and he falls at her— kind of falls at her feet by the gate. And we're just standing there and I'm like, I don't know what to do. And they don't know what to do. And, um, He was saying something, and all he wanted was a letter from us saying that he was not an insurgent at the hospital when he was taken to the hospital.

Shit, man.

Brother. And it just gets worse from there.

Do you remember the first time you had to kill somebody?

Yeah, I I shot so many cars, Sean.

I shot—

so I shot a lot, man. I did a lot. I did a lot. But I also had reasoning. I, I also had some, um, I, I also had an ability to not do it. I remember, um, I almost got fired for not killing this guy because, uh, I was the lead turret gunner and, uh, with the 240 and then the— my, my M4 and .203. And this guy started the— I could tell these 2 guys were fighting in the car. They're yelling at each other in Arabic, you know, you know, they're aggressive. It's kind of dramatic. They're fighting and I'm watching them and they're up, up, up above and they start to back up into, into us. And as he starts to back up, I feel hands on my leg go, and they're squeezing me like, shoot this guy. Like, they grab my legs like, kill him, because they're watching this. They can't do anything. And I— but I know that they're arguing and I see them arguing. I have every right. I could easily slice them both up through the back window. Easy day. But I, I just knew that there was absolutely 100% chance they were just bullshit.

They weren't paying attention. And so I just shot twice in there, in, in— and I guess it was gasoline started coming out, but I went pop, pop, and just automatic liquid started coming out the back. And they both just were so terrified. Because they knew how close they were. And my team leader was like, good job, Hoss, man. But they called me in and they said, hey, what did we say? There are no warning shots allowed. You could get fired and terminated from this contract for doing that again. I said, you're going to fire me for having the judgment not to kill somebody when I know they weren't a bad guy? And they were like, that's right. No warning shots. I said, okay, next time. I said, next time I'll kill them both for you. That was it. I'm not trying to be badass, that, that's— I said next time I'll, I won't do him a favor, I guess. And so that leads into many, many assaults, many firefights, many, uh, just continuous mayhem, uh, especially on the—

I didn't realize it was that bad on that side.

Well, uh, there's the PSD side, which maybe a guy watching right now will say, well, I don't remember that. Well, because you were playing poker every night in the damn man camp, Chau Ha, and you were smart. I was stupid. I decided to continue to elevate myself and continue to volunteer and go into harder, more difficult, challenging things like the Quick Reaction Force teams and the tactical support teams. And it was all volunteer like normal. And I felt like that's where the action is. So I naturally, my attitude gravitated towards the action, towards what's going to give me action. I don't want to sit here all day. I don't want to sit in the man camp hole. I don't want an admin administrative job. I want to do stuff. I want to save people. By the way, I thought I was there for a righteous cause, by the way, still. And so I end up being the turret gunner, the lead turret gunner for one of the big QRF teams. And that's all I did all day— run lead turret gun. I may have started out as a rear and then worked my way up to lead, but just did that day in and day out, day in and day out, shooting cars, getting in ticks, sometimes nothing.

So, you know, sometimes you come back and your water bottle's next to you, you know, leaking, and you're like, thank God we didn't get shot at today. And you're looking and there's like a hole through the box where you, you know, you're going 50 miles an hour down the road and you don't even hear a round go across and go under the box, and you're like that, that close, you know.

Damn.

Yeah, but, but man, we were, we were in for a, a very painful lesson, you know.

Let's take a quick break.

Yeah.

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Glacier, download it on the App Store. And remember, privacy isn't paranoia, it's protection. All right, Jimmy, we're back from the break. Yeah, man, I gotta be honest, I wasn't expecting to go there with the Blackwater stuff. That's a, uh, That's a hell of a, of a change of pace from what you're doing in the Marine Corps to that.

I mean, well, you know, Sean, I don't want to get— I don't want to come across as we were freaking just blazing and running and gunning every day. There's— in war, you know very well that there's a shit ton of boredom, but then there's these action scenes that happen most of the time in the opposite way that you would think that they're happening. Now, we didn't do any night runs. Okay, it was all day. And, and on our day off, we'd have every, every 3rd or 4th day off, uh, we would just go to the pool at Saddam Hussein's palace and try to pick up on the army chicks or whatever, play on my little Nokia Snake game phone. Um, and yeah, I would act busy like this. That was my, my trick. And the girls would be like, oh, those are Blackwater guys, they got beards and they don't have to salute the generals. And—

You weren't working on your MySpace account?

No, no. Uh, yeah, yeah, MySpace.

Yeah.

Oh man.

So look, you're like, oh yeah, I forgot about that.

MySpace.

You had MySpace?

I had MySpace.

Everybody in Baghdad had MySpace. There wasn't anything else to do.

I had a crazy girl acting like, acting like it was me and her talking back and forth, and she was married, uh, and she was acting. I had no idea about this whatsoever. I was in Iraq fighting it out, duking it out on Blackwater, and I have this crazy girl that's literally like acting like me and her are together going back and forth on MySpace. She had my profile responding to her profile, and it wasn't even me. And I find this out and I'm just like, oh bro, it's my first experience with social media, you know.

But anyway, Baghdad was an interesting place back then.

But there was parties all the time. People don't understand that.

I think, you know what I thought was real? I mean, I, I don't think I've ever even talked— what was really in, especially when I got to, when I got to GRS, uh, you would get these young women who just got out of Harvard and Stanford and Brown and all these Ivy League schools. And you know, that's it. It's a certain type, right, that goes there, you know?

Right, right.

And then they show up in the middle of Afghanistan or Yemen or Iraq or Pakistan or insert war zone country, and then they meet SEALs and Green Berets and recon guys and contractors. So they're like, That's a fucking man, right? And then it's like a switch flips, right?

I, I—

and they want to meet another man and another man and another man, right? And all of a sudden, these Ivy League people, they're not attracted to those types anymore.

No.

And then the partying starts.

Yeah, my girl, my girl was, uh, Canadian. That's from Stanley Baker, worked with Stanley Baker Contractor. And she was the most— except for my wife now, you know, beautiful girl there at the time. I think, you know, a bunch of hair, beautiful body. And I mean, I just went straight up to her. She had never had a guy ever do that to her.

Just—

I was, I was dripping pool water on her. She's reading her book, you know, like a huge nerd, you know, because she's been in college most of her life. And she looks up at me and I'm like, hey, you want to, you want to, you want to make out or something stupid, something crazy? And she's like, you're stupid, you know.

Well, I mean, could you imagine coming— like, you go, you're coming from Harvard, you know, sweater vests, and then, and then you go, and then you're in Baghdad and you see a bunch of guys come in with blood on their kit, bullets all over the car. You know what I mean?

Straight up warriors. Yeah.

And the first thing they want is a beer.

Oh, yeah.

It's like, what is that?

My—

it's a fucking man. That's what that is.

That's right.

You just haven't been around that before.

Yeah. And these girls— these girls were blown away by that. I remember my girl talking to me and we would sit there together at night, you know, with candles lit and incense.

What?

This is in Baghdad, Iraq, man. Freaking rocket smashes down behind you. And, and yeah, I used to see— I used to see her. She was my girlfriend in Iraq. I was seeing her every night. I'd go do these crazy runs during the day. We became like the 911 force for the National Guard, the Army, Marines, not as much Marines. And, but we're running and gunning all day, rescuing teams. And I would come back and tell her this crazy story. And she was just like blown away by this. I mean, I was really getting puffed up, you know. I really felt— thought I was something at the time. I really felt I was pretty cocky, you know.

But then you also, you know, you got the guys that fall in love with them, you know, right? And their agency girls, right? It's like— and it's like, she loves me. It's like, she doesn't love you, dude. Yeah, you're gonna rotate out and then there's gonna be another one. No, she loves me. Really?

She loves you?

You don't even know her real name.

You don't even know, like a stripper. The agency girl. You don't even know her real name. I hope, I hope your audience caught that. That was, that was funny.

But yeah. So, so you were on the Raven 23 team, right?

Right. I was on Raven 26 as, as an eventual team leader of Raven 26. We're running and gunning and then all of a sudden they're like, Uh, there's this Raven 2-3 that needs a new team leader. And so they bring me. They knew— they knew I could control the team. Like, that's one thing I could do because I just— I, I just knew what men wanted. I knew it. I knew what warriors need. And, and so they brought me over and everybody's looking at me all cocky, like, who's this new— who's this guy to come over and be our team leader now? It would be— and I mean, they wanted somebody like straight up raw that nobody really knew. from another complete— another cell and team to come run them. And they said, Hoss, do whatever it takes, iron these guys out. They're kind of a little rough, you know, out there. They're getting a little— it's— they're getting a little rough out in the wire. That's what they told me. And I said, okay. And everybody's looking at me kind of like cocky and stuff. You can imagine like 30 guys that are from all different backgrounds— SEALs, Rangers, badass guys, Rangers, all of them.

And they're looking at me like, who's this guy? You know? And I remember I just stood in front of them. I don't know what came over me, but I was like, look, I was like, look, you may love me or hate me, but I'm going to promise you 3 things. I said, you're going to work. We're going to work, guys. Because I knew guys were— I was pissed. You know, we were— sometimes we'd sit there and listen to a team get smashed and just not do anything about it or take our time. And I was like, guys, we are going to work. And by work, I mean we're going to freaking work. We're going to answer every call we get. I don't care if you're changing your tire out there. We're going out. I don't care what happens. We're going to go out and we're going to set up the wall of steel. We're going to drive our vehicles right between them and the wall of fire, the bullets. We— that was our SOP, a wall of steel. And so we're— and I said, we're going to work. I said, you're going to sleep more than me, and you're going to eat the best food around, even if we have to go Route Apache through the black routes in Sodder City, the band routes.

And they were like, who the fuck is this guy? Who's this guy? You know? Uh, does he have the authority to do this? And, and, and, uh, one guy was like, you, you, you, you don't have the power, you don't have the authority to fire us. Because, because I told him I'd fire your ass. I said, hey bro, I said, open your mouth again and see what happens. I'll say the window, I'll window, or I'll— we used to say, you know, you'll be on the next flight out there. I said, I don't want any shenanigans. You're not going to just kill people for the fun of it. You know, it's got— we're here for a purpose, to rescue teams. I was very rambunctious, uh, and, uh, and, and they gave me the full power, hominis dominus, to, to do this, Sean, to, to fire at anybody. Could get fired at any moment by me, uh, and I had the power and authority to go out without asking, which plays a huge role later on, you know, in, in the Nisar Square.

So I'm the only one to ever give those guys the opportunity to tell their side of that story. They're super square.

Yeah, man.

There's their pardons right up there. I had them sign their pardons.

And you talk about coming full circle. Now I'm here and you gave those guys a chance to tell their story and their pardons on the wall. It's weird, man. Life is weird.

It is. I didn't even realize you were a part of that until I read the outline this morning.

Yeah, I was the team leader.

Do you want to go into that?

Uh, we, we, uh, I can skim around. Uh, they got pardons. I got gag order in, uh, what do they call it, immunity, only, uh, as long as I don't talk about it.

Gotcha.

You know, specifics what I did, but you can gather. I mean, if somebody wants to investigate it, they can gather kind of what I did, you know.

Okay.

You can kind of gather from their, from their reports what happened.

Well, I don't want to— I don't want to get anybody in trouble.

Yeah.

So, so how did you— sounds like there's a lot of killing going on.

Right, right.

How are you handling that? Sounds like it happened relatively fast. There was a decent amount of it. Well, how are you— how are you processing that? Are you processing it?

I'm not, I'm, I'm not processing it because it's happening so fast around me. Um, in fact, the Raven 2-6 team that I just leave, I, I literally left and they get blown up. Their lead truck gets hit by IED and hidden in a watermelon stand with a follow-on attack of small arms. And so, dude, my homies, uh, the, the, the front 2 turret gunners, a dual turret. Uh, one of them loses half of his arm, the other one's shot out like a rocket onto his head. His head's swollen up, he gets unrecognizable. And I'm going to the hospital seeing this, holding these guys' hands, watching 4 Army guys die and right in a row screaming out, you know, Mom, Mom, Jesus, Jesus, and just fading out. I saw that shit. And, you know, blood, blood all in the foyer of the Baghdad hospital, flies on stretchers as you, as you come in, just stretchers stacked, stretchers just stacked. We're answering the calls to the, to the rockets. Now we developed kind of an SOP while we're there. A rocket would hit and we run right to it no matter what, even if rockets were still hitting.

Because I saw guys that got hit hiding from rockets. I was like, screw that, man. If you're gonna go out, you might as well go out like a, like a G, you know. You might as well go out like with, with running, you know, out there. And so we were answering these calls and we would get there, people would be blown apart. Uh, it, it's crazy how the mind works, Sean. I know you know this. Uh, but you know, I blacked out a lot of the terrible stuff. Um, and only years later Through therapy and stuff, did it, did it come up? Like, I, one time I, uh, there were, there was 3 rockets that hit, boom, boom, boom, like that. And we ran over there and there was just a pile of, uh, there was a pile of guts on fire, on fire. And there was a hand over here with a cell phone and an arm and a, and an Army doctor, medic, Army medic. He looked like a purple Smurf. He's sitting there like this. And I said, hey, I said, how many?

How many?

And he just goes like this, like held up his 4 fingers. And I just ran into that. And I was so used to running into it. We ran over there and, and I remember my buddy in front of me tried to jump over the, the guts and he fell in it and hit his back into the fire and the guts. You know, it was smoldering. And, um, I picked him up and he was just covered in this stuff. And, and, uh, I rounded a corner and there was a girl in a blue dress. Just the weirdest stuff. A girl with a blue dress and top of her head was gone.

Oh man.

And I, and I couldn't understand how she died because she was so far away from the explosion. And so I caught— I was caught by myself back there with her. It was just me and her. And this cold came over me. And I just looked at her. The blood was going, pooling, coagulating out of the top of her head. And I remember I just was so confused, like a little, like, NCIS investigator. I'm like, well, I didn't want to touch anything. And I looked up and part of the tree was sheared off. And all I could think of was maybe the shrapnel hit the tree and came down on her or something weird. Anyways, picked her up. Put her into bags as usual, sprayed out the trucks that, that night with power washers, and then go back at it the next day, over and over and over. And eventually, I don't know, Sean, I just— I knew, I knew I was going to get hit. I knew something, I knew something bad was going to happen. I knew it was coming. They were giving me awards. They were saying, Jimmy, good job. They call me Hoss.

Hoss, man, good job, bro. Do it again. Do it again. You don't gotta ask us permission. Do it again. Go out there. I'm 27 years old. I thought I was a man back then, Sean. I thought I was a full-grown badass warrior. And, uh, I look back at that guy now and I'm like, man, he was a kid. That thought he knew what was going on. And, uh, it, uh, it finally eventually caught up to me and I had to make the call to go out that day. Uh, I, I already had shrapnel. I had shrapnel in my leg from a cheap Chinese Chi-Com grenade, um, that I had stepped out of the truck and banged it out with some insurgents that, that ran up on us, ran up right up, right up on us. And I just opened the door like this. Because I knew what he was trying to do. He was trying to throw a grenade in the turret. And, you know, grenade in the truck with the closed doors like that, armored, it's over. And that's how I saw 4 Army guys die. A grenade had gone in their turret and it— boom, like that, you know.

And they survived only to die a couple hours later in front of me. And when I saw those 4 guys die, those Army guys, I said, Sean, I said, I am not going to die like that. All my life I would go out fighting on my feet, then take a grenade in the turret. So when we pulled up to Armandale City Hall, it was a major exchange of gunfire. A guy, a guy in his pajamas, it looked like, ran past the window, and I— and the truck shook like this, like an explosion, small, and like a grenade had missed. And that's what he did. He threw the grenade and it bounced off the top of the turret, and the guy tried to smoke him, and I jumped out. And that's when I took shrapnel. He must have thrown another grenade, uh, and I threw a grenade over the wall and he— they smoked him. But, um, so I have this in my leg. My team that I just left is blown up. Guys are injured. Uh, you have all these rockets going on at night. I know my time's coming. And by the way, the pile of guts that were on fire was the same guy from Indonesia or whatever that gave me my float ice cream float sundae every day, and he was so nice.

I asked the next day, I said, where's that guy that gives me my ice cream? He said, that was him yesterday. Yeah.

How many deployments did you do over there?

I don't know. Um, Baghdad was my permanent address, so I just stayed there. Well, I would do like 9 months 9 months on, 1 month off. 6 months, 1 month off. 9 months, 1 month off. For almost 4 years.

What are you telling your parents? Are you still close with them at this point?

Yeah. They were just— they just knew that I was meant to do it. They were just like, totally like, hey, man, Jimmy's doing his dream. Let him do it. And my mom is tough.

But did they know?

I don't think they knew to the extent But they, they knew it was bad because I, I liked a good story, so I would tell them some stuff but not too crazy. Nothing— they didn't know the bad stuff. They didn't know how terrible it was, Sean. And, um, and the day the Nisour Square happened, Baghdad's Bloody Sunday they call it, you know, with the 4 guys that you brought in here, uh, they— I saw a big black plume of smoke and a bomb went off. You could feel it. I was in the Chaha and the windows vexed like that, like you're on an airplane in turbulence. And I was like, it's over. Because I, I just knew with things that were escalating, I just knew that my time was coming to an end there. And, and but I always did. I always did what I said I was going to do. You're going to work, you're going to eat better, you're going to sleep more than me. And I took the guys out and we got to the checkpoint. And Corey Wainscott, who later died, he's my tactical commander in the front truck. He said, Hoss, what do you want to do?

We have a team that's been attacked. They said contact, contact, contact on the air like they had been attacked. And I thought they had been blown up. And he says, Hoss, what do you want to do? And I— He goes, we can go to this traffic circle. and block it off while they come through. Because insurgents attack at these points. And I said, hold on. And I waited. And I knew if I said, go out, it was over, Sean. And a voice told me that. A voice said, if you do this, it's going to be bad. And I didn't know to the extent. We never do, do we? And that's when I said, go ahead and go. Because I always did the more aggressive thing. I always leaned on the never die with a cold gun in your hand. And so we went out and that's when all hell broke loose. And that's when a lot of lives were changed. A lot of lives were— a lot of people were killed. And of course, those guys on Raven 2-3, uh, and you were out there with them. Yeah, I was the— I was the team leader.

I was in the— I was in the 3rd truck. You got maps, you got radios, trying to talk to the little birds and stuff. But all hell broke loose. Yeah. But it was— it was my call. And I take— I take 100% responsibility for it because you can't be a leader and just take all the goodness and say, oh yeah, I did this, I'm this and that. No. If you want to be a leader and you want to step up to the plate, Even if it was that many years ago, you take the full brunt, you know, even if it was a nightmare. And I was blamed, you know, for making a call to go out. They said I disobeyed orders. I went against their calls. There were no orders. There was no calls. They had— they kept encouraging me to go out. So I just— I made the decision to go out. Did it, did it, did it intercept an attack or something else? I'll never— we'll never know.

Do you think that was the wrong call?

Um, uh, considering, considering that how it ruined so many lives, yeah. Yep. I mean, I could sit here today and say, no, man, Sean, no. That was the right call. But no, no, I would've rather died that day than go through what those guys had to go through. Because it's one thing as a leader to lose guys on a team, but you imagine the guys go to prison for life because of your choice. You're in eternal torture. Your mind is tortured year after year. You can't enjoy anything. And I'm not even— not even woe is me now. Like, it sounds like a pity party now. These guys had to go to prison because of my call. But, but really, a couple of things. One of the guys, as you well know, Jeremy Ridgway, he turned and basically said something else went on that day. And other guys said that. And of course, they— the Raven 23 guys, based off their counsel, didn't testify and didn't fight back in a testifying physical way. And when you do that— because I was in a lot of the courts watching this happen, being called in— You look like a killer.

You look like a murderer. You're, you're far away from this jury that has no idea what war— not even a fraction of a, uh, you know, they don't know what, what war is like or anything. And they're seeing these 4 white guys with shaven heads across the— all the way across the courtroom. And you're guilty, you're guilty. And based— but based off their Blackwater counsel You know, uh, they were told not to say a word, and I think that was the biggest mistake ever. Because at that point, you've got to— you've got to— you've got to— you better— you better open your mouth and fight for yourself.

Do you think if they would have said something, it would have changed the outcome?

No. I mean, so that's a great point.

I mean, the government deleted the evidence that supposedly proved their innocence. They deleted that drone footage of the entire incident. Only that slice of drone footage.

Yes.

According to their account.

Multiple, multiple FBI agents later said that it was a sham. I, I don't think it would have changed the outcome. They were totally— they were 100% railroaded. They were heroes in my eyes. And for— for people can't even comprehend what they had to go through that day. But, you know, people can't comprehend what what war is like. They sent an investigation team, the FBI, and they couldn't even leave their rooms to investigate the scene for a while because rockets were hitting in the distance. I said, how can you judge a crime scene if you can't even go look at it? I mean, think of the irony in that.

Yeah. Well, I've thought about it. Many times. That interview, yeah, really, it just really affected me.

Yeah, it affected me.

Made me feel different about the country.

Oh, total betrayal.

Because 3 of them got— I think 3 of them got 35 years, and then Nick Slatten got life.

Yeah, you know, right, right.

Do you keep in touch with those guys at all?

Uh, 2 of them I do. And, uh, and, uh, I, I, there's— I'm sure there's blame on me, and, and it's, it's okay. I, I welcome it. I, I forcibly welcome it because I, I really take a lot— I take that real serious. Like, you got— you have got to take responsible responsibility for all your actions. Even if it ruins you, you know. And so it, it was, it was, uh, obviously, uh, a very difficult time moving forward because I had to figure out what to do now. My lawyers were like, don't, don't worry, Jimmy, they're not going to come out here. There's nothing— they can't do anything. And then the FBI's coming to my house and I refuse to talk to them. And that's how I could pass later on my SEAL stuff. My top secret stuff. Have the FBI ever visited you at your house? No, they had come to my mom's house. Have, have you ever spoken to the FBI? No, I never did. Never talked to them once. I said, get out of my house, my parents' house. And my lawyer was like, don't be rude to them, you know? And so I never, never— so basically what happened was It was a shit show, Sean.

And but, but it was a lot of conflicting word. Like my lawyer is saying, everything's okay, don't worry, you know, there's nothing they could do to you. They got these sealed things. And, and then on the news though, they're full steam ahead. Senator Obama is on there saying these guys need to burn. And then later on, we find out that Vice President Biden literally went back, went to Baghdad, Iraq. and visited President Maliki at the time and, and basically made a deal and said, although the case has been dismissed, trust me, we're going to burn these guys, we're going to get them. And that's what they did. And that's while I'm in the SEALs now.

So that was your last deployment with Blackwater?

That was it.

They flew me out directly After that, how long after your last deployment did you go— did you join the Navy?

Um, I sat at home and, uh, I had a pain management doctor that was willing to give me fentanyl patches, everything I asked for, for, for nothing. For a little chicken scratch on my, on my leg, little, little ball bearing shrapnel stuck in my leg for nothing. And but I, I made it bigger than it was so I could get on you know, get more fentanyl and stuff, because now he had me hooked. And it was an escape for me. And I was able to escape this, this traumatic war, the deception, my own disillusionment, my brainwashing from the government. I'm able to just escape everything. My buddy taught me how to cut up oxycodone and snort it, and I thought that was just, uh, the best ever. It was heaven, uh, at the time. And I'm escaping, escaping, escaping, uh, and, um, I'm drinking now Jack Daniel's. I'm taking 15 vodka a day. I'm taking— I'm cutting up one fentanyl patch because they were so heavy they'd make you pass out and drool all over yourself. So I'd cut them up and put them on my leg. And, uh, so I'm completely just zoned out and I'm thinking, I have to end my life.

So I start thinking of ways to end my life, uh, really really thinking about how do I do this and not hurt my family? How do I do this and not— I had a rental house at the time— do it maybe in the bathroom, but it still would be, you know, this kind of crazy stuff. And I was real serious. And, um, I remember my niece came up and she, she said, hey, you want to watch a cartoon with me? And, uh, I said, yeah, you know, whatever, you know. And, uh, and I sat down with her and it was Finding Nemo.

Wait, she came up to you as you were going to commit suicide?

No, no. She came up to me during this dark time. I was— I was— if I stayed by myself, Sean, it was like the demons would come in and I could not be by myself. I couldn't live by myself. I couldn't be in a room by myself. So I stayed around my parents. I stayed around other life, living beings to stay alive. And my niece wanted to watch Finding Nemo. And I'm all jacked up, but I, but I still had this burning desire to do the SEALs. But everybody told me, Jimmy, it's over. The SEALs, it's, it's almost impossible to get in. You know, it's, it's, it's hard. It's very difficult to do it with a clean, perfect record. But I have— I don't know if I'm going to be arrested tomorrow by the FBI, stand trial with these guys. I don't know what's going to happen. And they're— and my lawyers start saying, oh my God, Jimmy, The, the, they're, they're, they're, they're thinking about charging you now. And with this, this and this, this, but they can't quite prove it. So I've got all this pressure against me. And so I turn on Finding Nemo with my, my niece.

I'm trying to be a good uncle, but I'm drinking and all jacked up, messed up at my parents' house. And I'm lost, man. And I remember it was about a fish or something swimming around. in the deep dark ocean. It's almost impossible, right? But it— but the whole, the whole movie's about keep going, keep swimming. And all of a sudden, the, the lights go out on the TV screen. It goes pitch black. And I'm about to get up with my bottle of Jack, and I look and it, it said, keep— just, just keep swimming, or just keep moving forward. And that hit me. I don't know why, but it just hit me. And it sometimes it takes a— I say it takes a perspective change in our life, just one little thing to flip your switch. And that for some reason, seeing that just keep moving forward swimming, it hit me, especially in relation to the SEALs. And so, man, a light went on, Sean. And I said, and I knew right then and there, if I don't get up off this couch and if I don't Dump this shit right now. I'm gonna die 100%.

I am a dead man if I don't do something right. I mean, it had to be right now. I knew if I waited one more second, it was lights out for me. So I got up from Finding Nemo, I dumped all my stuff. People later questioned like, well, Jimmy, how could you get off fentanyl and stuff? I don't remember. I don't know. I don't remember going through horrible withdrawals. It was just some real bad cramping, but I was just started running. I just started running and running and running till I threw up. And, um, I saw— I, I just put myself in a, a situation like of complete absolute delusion. Uh, uh, I've blacked out everything, blacked out the Blackwater event like it never happened. I blacked out everything around me and said, I'm going for the SEALs. And it was just looked impossible though. I mean, how were you masking that?

Did everybody around you know you were messed up? Or were you masking it pretty good? Your parents?

I think my parents— I think my parents always knew stuff, but they never told me. I think they just did me the favor of not— I think they knew that it was real bad. It'd be like your uncle coming home from Vietnam and he's always messed up, but, you know, he went through some stuff in the jungle, so you leave him alone. You know, I'm not causing a riot. I'm not yelling, I'm not violent. I'm just done. I remember getting into a couple, you know, arguments with my dad because I was being loud or something, you know, nothing too crazy. And so I go all in for the SEALs and I make it by the grace of God, standing on shoulders of giants. Uh, and that really, really pissed off the FBI, pissed the DOJ off.

Why? What do you mean it pissed them off?

Well, they just— they dismissed the case in 2009, and I thread the needle to where I don't have to lie. I don't have to lie on anything. I never lied on my top secret clearance, all this stuff. I just thread the needle. Right? Uh, and it's really weird situation because, you know, the DOJ probably thinks the team leader of the Blackwater thing, he's dead, he's gone, it's over for Jimmy Watson. He's got— his life is over. Well, I keep plugging away, I keep slugging out, keep swinging for the fences. I mean, it's against all odds. And, um, I, I get through training, I get my top secret clearance, I, I am— I'm in sniper school. I go to all-volunteer unit SDV, and then I go to sniper. And around that time, they drum up the case again, the Blackwater case. And my old lawyer, Monica Lewinsky's lawyer, Preston Burton— you know Monica Lewinsky, remember him? I've heard of her. Her, her lawyer that likes cigars. Yeah, yes, cigars and blue dresses.

Her— she—

her lawyer, her defense lawyer, was my defense lawyer for for Blackwater. And he calls me up, he goes, Jimmy, man, I hate to say this, brother, but you're getting called in to testify. And he says, just don't lie. Just tell exactly how— what happened. And so I go in and I testify in my uniform. And these FBI are just like, how did this guy— wait, how, how did he become a SEAL? He was a Blackwater team leader. Now, how did he become a SEAL? How did he— how does this happen? How does that work? You know? And I, and I, I— it was pretty extraordinary to be standing there years later and the FBI hates you so much. And now you're testifying and my story my testimony was not collaborating their side of the story, the, uh, the, the DOJ and the FBI. And they didn't like how my story was in direct— I can't say much, but it was in direct, uh, it was conflicting with Ridgeway's. It was the, you know, you know, in, in ways. Of course, I wasn't— I didn't have a bird's-eye view. I was kind of in, in the seat here.

But anyways, my testimony did not help the DOJ, the FBI. And so they put their crosshairs on me, and that plays on later on with Macfield. Nobody— I mean, very— what, Al Capone has had 2 FBI different cases come against him? Like, I— it's like getting hit by lightning twice. And I had 2 different big investigations launched against me, and almost, almost successful too. So I go in and testify in my A uniform, that creates a mistrial. I know I can't, you know, say like if it was because of my testimony, but it was brutal and the jury was in tears after I left. So it— the DOJ are just in shock that I would testify like this, just absolutely in shock, direct conflicting their story. And my lawyer said, as long as you don't lie, you're okay. And, uh, and so they call my lawyer, they tell my lawyer and say, if Jimmy comes in and does that again, uh, we will destroy his SEAL career. We will. And they said— and Preston told me, I was at sniper school, had a broken ankle at sniper school. Uh, he said, um, Jimmy, these guys are not messing around.

And they literally said that they're going to come after your SEAL career And it's coming from the very highest place that you can imagine. I said, highest place? He said, the very highest place you can imagine is coming from the top, that you better cooperate and nail these guys into jail. You better go along with their story. And my lawyer is telling me this.

Uh, geez.

You better, you better cooperate with the FBI or you're go— you're— they're going to ruin your career. They may can't put you in jail, Because they can't get you on the line, but they're going to come after your career and destroy you. And I said, so be it, man. So be it. And so what did I do? Just like the movies Goodfellas, you know, I'll hit you, I'll go to jail, I'll come out and I'll hit you again afterwards. And that's what I did. I went and testified the exact same way in my uniform. And that's when, if I recall right, that's, that's directly after that. I was at the top of my game. in my game. In, in, in the SDV, I was, I was a team leader, a sniper. I was by no means the best guy there, but I was at— I was doing real well. And, uh, you know, doing real well. Did a national tasking, uh, and, uh, and, um, that's when they came in, in with the, uh, memo. The FBI wrote a memo to my commander and said that I had lied on the stand. All this crazy stuff.

Can you imagine? He lied on this memo to say that I was lying.

If—

but if I— if you were just smart, if you had a brain, you'd say, well, if he was lying, why not charge him with perjury? But they didn't. And they, they came after my career. He wrote a nasty memo, and that sent me into a 2-year fight that I— that it's hard to imagine. I, I had to— I fought the Navy. My commander said that I only had 10 days left to get out of the Navy. He called me in the office and I was at the top of my game at SDV. I was doing real well. And he called me in after all that. He said, Jimmy, you have 10 days left to get out of the Navy. And I thought he was joking. I said, sir, what? I said, what? And he goes, hey, you have 10 days left to get out of the Navy. And I said, sir, I'm not going nowhere. And he said, no. And he, he shook. He says, you don't understand. He said, you're out of here. He goes, Admiral, um, the, the top admiral— I almost said his name— but that admiral, the highest admiral, said you're out of here.

And I said, I'm telling you right now, I'm not going nowhere. And he goes, I swear by, you know, in 10 days you'll be out of here. In 10 days, I came in with my uniform on. and slapped my commander on the back and said, hey sir. And he was startled and he looked at me, he said, yes? I was like, I'm still here. And that was my motto, I'm still here. And the only thing in my real burning drive, Sean, was that I just couldn't imagine them doing this to my sister or somebody that wouldn't fight, you know, just railroad somebody like that.

So what happened?

Well, this is what happened. I launched an all-out war against the JAG, against everybody. I just became a ruthless, brutal— back in Baghdad, Iraq— war dog, you know. I, I launched, um, uh, complaints. I, I wrote every freaking You name it. Congressman, you name it. Senator in Texas, attorney general. It's been so long, but inspector generals, all these. And I just launched paperwork and paperwork and paperwork and unlawful command influence charges on where they have to respond. And then it buys you time. And my dad was a Texas judge, so he's encouraging me and telling me these things to do along the way. And so this whole— so about— I fought them for 2 years, the Navy. And every single month they'd say, you're out this date, you're out this date. But I would make them and I'd draw it out another— I'd spend another $15,000 on a lawyer. Then I started representing myself and eventually it came down to one of those admin boards. And, uh, but the 3 guys at the end of the admin board table— I won't name their names because I'm working on my forgiveness— but they, uh, uh, they had their orders from the admiral to kick me out no matter what my story was.

And, uh, I knew that from a good friend who knew them. All the SEALs know each other, you know that. Um, and they dismissed me out of the Navy. They said, you're done. And, um, So I finally was packing my bags to get out of the Navy. My dad called me up, the old Texas judge. He's like, son, he's like, you got one more chance. He goes, file another complaint against them. He goes, file this complaint, this a new complaint. And I said, dad, it's over, man. He says, no, if you do this, it'll buy you another 40 days. And I said, all right, why not? You know, do another 40 days with them. And so I filed another complaint. But this time it was a new commander, uh, Parado, and, um, he overturned their decision and kept me in the Navy. So now—

What year is this?

2015.

What was his name?

Commander Parado. He was an old— he was an old Mustang. He was enlisted first, enlisted to captain.

What was his first name? Do you know?

John.

No shit.

John Prado.

I worked with him.

He's the baddest motherfucker on the planet. Nobody, nobody would ever do what he did. I have never seen a guy with that ball, that kind of balls. He said, because he overturned the, the decision of the entire command to kick me out, Sean. And his boss is the Admiral, Admiral Losey, that told them to kick me out no matter what. for the FBI. Can you imagine that? And he calls me in and I gave him a bunch of paperwork and I said, sir— he goes, Jimmy, come in. And I came in. I'm limping because I just— my body hurt. I was fighting the Navy for 2 years. It was terrible. And I limped in and he said, sit down, son. I said, no, I'll stand. He looked at me, Commander Perrotto. He said, I said sit down. And I said, and I sat down. So we had a bad start. And he goes, what are you in here for? I said, sir, I know that you're not gonna— I know that you're not gonna help me. I know that you're not gonna overturn my case. I said, but I wanna let you know that, uh, That I would've been a good SEAL under you.

He goes, I heard about you. He goes, you're the guy that got his dick caught in a belt sander. I said, that's right. He said, you're the guy that broke his ankle and went to the tryout for Dam Neck and passed this, the, the initial screen on a broken ankle. I said, that's right. And he, he said, uh, he goes, well, don't ever tell me what I'm gonna do or not do. You understand me? And I said, yeah, okay. And I put my stuff down. And he called me on Christmas and he said, I reviewed all your stuff for 40 days. He goes, and I'm overturning the case and I'm going to keep you in and give you whatever team you want to go to. He said, where you want to go? I said, the White Devils, Team 10. And he said, roger that. He goes, they're going to issue an apology when you get to the command. I came to the command, I walked in like a cockroach, Sean. After 2 years of hell, everybody thought I was done. And they— the, the— there was guys apologizing to me and shit that he made apologize to me.

And then of course it had to go through one more guy to get me complete, and that was Admiral Losey. But Admiral Losey was the original guy, but everybody thought, no, he— there's no way he's going to go against Commander Prado now, because it's, you know, it's, it's a really messed up, weird situation, right? And we wait, and he says, get this shit out of here now, today. And that was the biggest mistake Admiral Losey made ever for his career, because he didn't understand. He didn't understand I was ready to die to stay in the SEALs. Not to be a SEAL anymore, but based off of principle in my fight against the FBI, because I saw them destroy Nick Slaton, Paul Slough, Dustin Heard, Donald Ball, all those guys. I saw them, what they did to those guys' lives. They destroyed their lives. The FBI literally destroyed their lives and sleeps at night not even knowing that they did it. I, I don't know if they do or not. But I saw what they did, and so I was in it for the blood. I was in it to die. I know that sounds insane, but, uh, when they said that this time, Jimmy— even Commander Prado said, I'm sorry, son, I did all I could do.

I said, you're a G, bro. You will be remembered, and you'll be remembered in the Hall of Fame for dudes that had balls. And, um, and, um, so they said, you're out of here in 10 days. Again, this is 2 years of this. And I said, I'm not going nowhere, Sean. And they said, you're going this time. And I said, I'm not going nowhere. And they said, what do you mean? I said, well, I said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go ahead and I said, you, you, you promised that I'm out of here in 2 days. And he said, yeah, you're this, you're done this time. I said, well, Tell Adam Malossi the blood is on his hands because I'm going to kill myself now. You know, I did that. And, uh, and so my wife at the time called the ambulance, and it was a big show. Big, big show. And I, I go to Emerald Coast Mental Health because I was in Florida at the time. I stay in there, and I'm trans— I'm, I'm life-flighted to Naval Balboa Medical Mental Health. And it was all to fight for principle. But at this point, I need the mental hospital, you know, uh, so it's real, you know.

And it's— it, uh— and so I stay in the Naval Balboa Mental Hospital for a year, approximately a year.

A year?

A year. And Admiral Losey finally sends 2 JAG officers To give me a message. And I tell my ex-wife, I said, baby, you should just leave me because I'm going to be in here for the rest of my life. I've committed myself to this fight to the end. And Admiral Losey sends 2 messengers, and the 2 JAG officers come in in their black uniforms, and they come in, and I'm in the mental hospital. I have literally blue paint on me. I had my hair I'll try to find a picture for you guys, but my hair's crazy. I got the blue outfit on. I mean, I look insane. I have a huge beard. Nobody's telling me shit. I'm doing burpees all day and coloring and stuff and painting. And the JAG officer said, Jimmy, we have a message for you from Admiral Losey that you have— that you can stay in here for the rest of your life, but the outcome will be the same. When you leave here, you are getting immediately terminated and kicked out. And they said, do you understand? And I looked at them and I said, I got finger painting in 5 minutes.

Are we done? And they got the message that I guess this is how it is. So I turned around and I knew that my time was limited and the doctors were going to go ahead and discharge me. And I felt like it was illegal for them to do this. But, um, and I'm sorry, some people may not understand this mentality, but you have to be there. And, uh, so they leave, and I know that I have to take it to another level now. I have to take it to the, the, the highest level I can to, to prove a point. At this point, I don't even know what I'm fighting for, but I just know that it's not right what the FBI has done to me, so I'm gonna go all in. And so, Sean, I go and, uh, I hung myself with a sheet.

You hung yourself?

With a sheet.

With a sheet?

With a real— like a real— like, uh, I, uh, took a sheet and I tied a knot in it every 4 inches for a long time. I already pre-staged this because I knew this was coming, and it's very, very difficult to do that. to do something to yourself in a— in naval bubble of mental health. They watch you and there's, you know, your pen is like a piece of rubber. You know, there's nothing hard. There's nothing stiff. Your chairs weigh £200. You know, you can't pick things up. But I figured a way to do it. And there was a hole in the wall above my toilet like this big. And I just stuffed it like I was loading a magazine. With those knots. And then I launched my— I could put it on my head and I thought, golly, man, you've never met a guy that wanted to live so bad and just be left alone and serve his country and give back to my country and give back to God. And here I am on a freaking toilet about to launch myself off the thing. I remember my, my roommate looked at me getting on the toilet with this thing on and he just goes, oh man.

And he just walked outside and I just launched myself off the toilet.

Holy shit.

As hard as I could. And it fractured my neck legitimately, knowing that they would I mean, um, well, I think it was a 50/50.

Did you do this because you wanted to— did you want to die so that it was blood on his hands?

No, uh, I, I, I didn't want to die, but I, I would— but it was 50/50 maybe that I would die doing it, or something really messed up to me, maybe lack of oxygen in my brain for a long time. So I wake up I'm out.

I'm out.

Blackness. And I wake up and this, this nurse is, you know, on me and she, she's screaming, but she's kind of choking me out with her foot is right here. And she was real tight. And they— I fractured my neck. And the doctors now, the same ones that were going to kick me out, they are crying, shaking. And it was a huge, huge deal. And it got back to Admiral Losey. And he was like, leave Jimmy alone, let him out, he can do whatever he wants now. Because I said, the next thing is the Coronado Bridge at 5 o'clock. I'll jump off that thing if you let me out here. That's how insane I was. And I was in masks. I mean, it was bad. So they finally said, uh, leave him alone. And Admiral Losey eventually, uh, he, um— he was charged— or not charged, but he— it was found to be— he was found to have 11 or 17 complaints against him of unlawful command influence. And he was the only admiral in the SEALs to ever not get their second star or something like that. And, and it was—

Wow.

I think it was Senator Kaskill that said, uh, that one too many complaints on him for unlawful command influence— and I know it was mine— that that broke the camel's back, you know. Wow.

Wow. How did you get down, hmm, when you hung yourself?

Um, I woke up on the ground, laying in the corner, like, with it, like, stretched to the max. So I didn't— I didn't hang. I didn't actually hang.

I launched myself, and it was Like, like pulled it, pulled it out of the wall?

Yeah, yeah, but it was still in and they had to get it off. It was terrible. It was a nightmare, you know. It was a real nightmare. It was a real big show, you know. Um, wow, wow.

Damn, dude, that's, that's nuts.

Yeah, and I look back and I— it's like I wish I would have just— at times I would have just like walked over, like, what the hell was I doing? I was still fighting for a resemblance of honor and patriotism and strength, you know? But I look back at it, just total— a lot of it was, uh— Wow.

John Porado, huh?

John Prado, the man, a real man. You know him?

If it's the same John Prado, he was my OIC when I was in Baghdad, and he was an awesome OIC.

Yeah, that's probably him. He's old school. He's badass.

We had some shit leadership at SEAL Team 2. Jamie Sands was our SEAL. I don't know if you've heard of that guy.

It was terrible.

Oh, he was— he was— no, he wasn't. He was the XO, I think.

But no, that sounds about right.

I think he just got fired or something. I think, uh, yeah, he's a horrible leader. Everybody in the SEAL Teams hates that guy.

God, man, he made it way up.

Of course he did, you know. Of course, typical officer that didn't do shit that went Really far, high ranking.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's what pissed me off so bad about the imbalance here. I literally, literally blood, sweat, and tears to get to the SEALs and to be a SEAL. But here's this officer that's like, kind of handed things on a silver platter, treated so differently. And he's able just to say, you're out of here in 10 days. And I thought that was so The unfairness to it, it was like the wrong guy to mess with, with me.

That's the first time I've heard of John Prado since probably 2006. Well, and I always wondered what happened to him, but he— I thought he was just an amazing leader.

He, he, he— it has to be him because if he was OIC with you, that makes sense he would be a commander. Yeah, that was 2006.

I didn't realize he was a Mustang. I'm not sure on that, so it could be I'll show you a picture. I'll dig one up.

Somebody told me that he was enlisted before, but maybe he wasn't. Yeah, he may have been. Maybe I got that off. But, uh, he was bad, man. The baddest decision I've never heard of. Anything—

who—

I mean, can you imagine going against your boss for some guy that's gonna get kicked out anyways? But he just did it off of principle.

Yeah, yeah, he was doing it back then. He's an awesome dude, awesome leader. Wow, you got a hell of a story, man.

Yeah, where are we going from here? Well, I, I think, um, I think it, it, it goes right into McAfee, you know. It's just a big transition to, to, you know, like I talked about the Joseph in the dungeon story. where he's betrayed by his brothers. He's betrayed by his— I felt like betrayed by my country. And Joseph was betrayed by his brothers. He's thrown in a dungeon. I'm thrown in the mental hospital. I go through the hanging. And then I get to my house in, uh, Valley Center, and I don't know what's gonna happen. But here comes the, the dungeon to the palace. Um, I have no idea that my life's about to change. I'm basically like crying out to God. I don't even know if God hears me, or I know he's real. I never denied him. I never denied God, but I know he's real. But I know he's not with me or he's not answering me because of the hell that I've gone through. All of a sudden, my buddy T-Cav calls me out of nowhere, and we had been doing some enforcing work together. What's that like? Getting people to pay money they owe to, to whoever they owe the money to, you know.

How do you do that?

Yeah, what does that mean? Who hires you to do that?

Rich, rich dudes, you know, through connections. Like, you, you know, uh, I was called up and say, hey, you want to go do this? This guy owes, you know, a million bucks. He owes it. He's not paying it for the last, you know, year and a half. You know, he lives in Canada. Give me his address. Well, you go, you know, you go, you go up to him and And you give him a plastic card with the bank wire information on it, and you just give it to him. And maybe something happens, maybe something doesn't, and you tell him, you tell him, you understand what this means? Yeah. Okay. Because next time it's not going to be this. And usually they pay because of—

How do you even get into that?

I don't know, Sean.

I mean, you know, you know, you get, you get kicked out of the SEAL Teams.

Well, I actually retired honorably, but, but honorable is not on a piece of paper. So you retired? I literally was able to retire. I, I, when they gave me a choice after the hanging, they said, what do you want to do, Jimmy? I said, now I want to get out. And I want to get 100% medical. And they gave me— they said, whatever. They gave me all the bells and whistles, 100% honorable retired, everything. But honorable is not on a piece of paper. I always say that I'm committed to that. So how long were you in? Total 17 years. But because that counts, my Marine time counts, inactive reserves and active, and then my SEAL time around maybe 17. 17 and a half, maybe.

So you probably— what, you spent like 12 years, 13 years in the SEAL Teams?

8 years.

8 years?

8 total, yeah.

8 years in the Marine Corps and 8 years in—

Yeah, a little over 8 in the SEALs.

Shit. And then, and then from that to enforcing— what'd you call it?

Enforcer. Being an enforcer. How do you get into that? Well, my homie T-Cav, me, we— he had a boss that owed a guy, owed money. And so we— so I was like, you know, a boss who was owed money. He had a boss that was owed money.

Okay.

By another guy that was living in Canada. And we went up there and stayed for a while and watched his business, watched his house, watched his business. And finally he came out. He didn't like to move around. He didn't like to come out. And finally he came out one day and we followed him to his house. And luckily we didn't have to do anything too crazy. We just went up there and we grabbed him and we said, You're going to jail. You don't, you know, you're gonna pay this. You know what I mean? We, we didn't, we're not Canadians, by the way. We flew all the way here for this and found you and you're gonna pay this. Here's the wire information already, already all on this little nice card. You don't have to take it any further after this. All you have to do is pay and then nothing will happen to you. And they're like, okay, you know, okay, okay, okay. Because that's scary, you know, 2 guys like me and TCAP to come up, you know, out of nowhere in Canada at your random— at your random house. That's crazy. It's far.

How long were you doing that for?

Not long, just a couple months.

What does that pay?

Uh, well, that could be a percentage of the money that came in, you know, uh could be, you know, $50,000 each, you know, off a billion-dollar deal. He just wants his money back. I mean, he's willing to pay us a lot because you're not going to get that money back anyways. So I get a call from T-Caf. T-Caf's like, yo, yo, bro, you know, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm done with this, man. Last time was scary. He got pulled out of customs in Canada, and I sat on the plane alone without him, and I was like, like, oh, we're gonna get where it's over. And so, uh, but he calls me, goes, hey, you, you wanna, you wanna go be security for John McAfee? And I'm like, who's John McAfee? He's like, check your computer, dog. And I'm like, oh, the McAfee antivirus guy? And he goes, yeah, he's got a nephew in the teams, and he called him saying that he's paranoid, he wants the best SEAL out there. And of course, I wasn't by any means nobody. I just got out though, you know, just, just out. And I, I had a payment due on my house, Sean.

I would have done it for free almost just for an adventure, right? I, I mean, I— and think about what I went through. I hung myself. I have a— I had a fractured neck that had to heal. I go through all this shit in my life. You know, those guys, by the way, are they in prison right now? I can't even remember, but, but they will be. Or they were. And I've been through all this shit, and then he calls me with this opportunity with John McAfee. And so he goes, don't worry, he'll probably pay you whatever you ask, so he'll call you. I said, okay, okay. I didn't think about it, Sean. And all of a sudden my phone rings and I answer it, and it's like, you know who this is, boy? I'm like, who's this guy calling boy? You know, he's a— he's like, it's John McAfee. I was like, yeah, sir, I figured that's who you are. He said, uh, he got right down to brass tacks. He said, how much you charge? And I was like— he's real raspy, real harsh like that. And I just, I threw out $500 to $1,000 a day, it depends on the threat, I said.

And I, I didn't know how to balance that. I was just going off of my Blackwater days, you know, how to price that. And he goes, what the fuck? What the hell? He goes, I— my Green Berets I only pay them $250 a day. Damn it. Like, you're like, what kind of like hard-ass power? And I don't know why, but I just was like, I was like, well, it's your life, sir. And I didn't know how much that was playing into his already paranoia and his emotions. And so that was a, that was a deal for him. He was like, okay, like, be here tonight then. Because when I said it's your life, and I played on his emotions without knowing it, I basically won the negotiation. And he wasn't used to losing because he— you could tell he didn't want to pay that money. But what he said, you know, when I said, well, it's your life, like, take it or leave it. And he said, deal. He said, $500, but you got to be here tonight. You got to leave tonight. I said, okay, where? And he says, I'll give you instructions. I fly into Lexington, Tennessee.

I mean, Lexington, Tennessee, where the hell is that?

It's a dump. There's like a Walmart. I'm sorry if somebody's from Lexington, Tennessee in the audience, but it— you don't, you don't think— you think you're gonna go— you think you're gonna be the guard of the iconic-clad technology, iconic-clad John McAfee, and he lives in Lexington, Tennessee? You think you're gonna go to Belize or Bali? Or somewhere? No. John McAfee picks Lexington, Tennessee. It's a big house and it's tactically situated with a great, um, for great observation. It's up on a hill. It's got a huge clearing around it, big fence, and attack dogs, big canines, and a pit bull named Tequila. And I said, yeah, pit bull named Tequila. And so I pull up there, man. Long story short, I pull up, uh, these dogs are running and jumping and hitting the fence at me. And they're like— and the guard's like, yeah, they, they may bite you, man. You know, like, just— and I'm like, ah, man, I don't want to do this, but I need an adventure, Sean. I'm always looking for the adventure. So, uh, I walk in the, the room and these guards are everywhere playing on— they look like the stock market, the candlesticks going up and down.

I later found out that's crypto. They're smoking weed, they're drinking whiskey. Uh, this is just not my environment. I'm used to having to— I mean, you know, in the SEALs, you would never drink with your pistol on. I mean, it just doesn't go together, right?

Yeah.

I mean, unless you're in some weird situation like the island or something, but you're like, you know, you're— it was just odd to see. And so I wait there in the, the room, in the dark room. There's smoke everywhere. And my first meeting with John McAfee, he comes out the door. The guards are like, shh, because you're being recorded all the time. It's a very paranoid environment. And John McAfee comes out and he's got this salt and pepper hair with the blonde tips and crazy beard. And he, he comes out and he immediately tells me to go outside with him. And we go and we go out and he takes me into the middle of a field. And, uh, he says, you, uh, you know, he looks at me and turns his face towards me with his eyes. He had these crazy crystal blue eyes. He was like, who's the most feared man on the battlefield? And I'm like, God, I gotta play this freaking game, you know, just to get paid. I'm like, I don't know, sir. And he's like, the oldest man. And I'm like, it's kind of cheesy but kind of true, you know.

And, uh, Yeah, but when he said that, John— I said, when he said that, Sean, I was like, you know, I'm just gonna take his freaking word for it. You know what, I'm gonna just go all in and play the game. If John McAfee says that he got raped by aliens last night, I'm abducted and whatever, I'm going to take his word for it. So that's the attitude I had, and that really worked out for me well because nobody else was taking him serious around him. And this guy was a genius, and I already kind of knew that, and I knew he was playing games with these guys. And, and, and so he, he was like a mad scientist genius guy. He was, it was incredible. He put me through tests.

What kind of tests?

He put the, the very first night Um, remember, they're, they're moving around, they're playing this crypto market, talking about making money with their pistols on, drinking.

It's loud. Who are these other guys?

Some of them are ex-Green Berets, Rangers. Uh, I, I think maybe a couple of them lied about their, their background. Um, they said they were whatever, and I was like, yeah, okay. And they don't know who I am. And John McAfee texts me on my phone and says, hey, you're the only one I trust, even if it's not true. he texts me, you're the only one I trust. I don't trust anybody. I don't even trust my own wife, Janice. He goes, I'm, uh, I need you to be my eyes and ears. And that's what he tells me outside as well. Well, that night I wake up and I go to bed with my pistol on my side right here, not my finger on the trigger, but on my— with my loosely holding this, that .40 Shield. And I wake up and I see this like demon standing over me, like on the bed. And it's John McAfee staring down on me, straddled me with his feet on the bed, and I'm like sunken in. What the hell? Yeah. And he's like, he's like looking down at me, and I have my— and I have that gun, and I pointed at him like, I'm gonna kill this guy.

And he's like, are you with me, son? Are you with me? And I'm like, I'm with you, sir. He goes, let's go. He jumped off the bed. We went upstairs. We stare out this, this glass, this— at this window at night, and we're staring out into the night, and there's, um, He says, do you see it? And everybody's like, where, where, where? He's got binoculars at night, uh, and he's just— we're staring there for like, you know, the snipers, you can sit there behind glass forever, but it's, it's freaking boring, terribly boring. And, uh, but John McPhee, he says, do you see it? To a guy. And this guy was an ex-Ranger, whatever. He grabbed the binoculars and he looked. He goes, yeah, yeah, I see it. It's flashing lights. John McAfee says, you see it, right? Yeah, it's flashing lights. And he goes, I see it. And then John McAfee looks at me and he goes, take a look. You see him? And I'm looking and I can't see anything, Sean. And I, and I just, I know that nothing's there. And but everything in my body tells me, just say, yeah, yeah, I see the lights too.

You know what I mean? Because you could tell guys were playing off of his paranoia.

His paranoia.

And man, I thought, you know what, I'm going to get fired, but I'm just going to tell the truth. I'm just going to be straight up. And so I just straight up was like, sir, I believe you, but I don't see lights. I don't. And he was like, are you fucking kidding me? Are you fucking— he goes, they're right there. And I said, sir, I know. I just don't see them. The next day he comes out with an envelope of cash. I could see envelope in the opening, and I know that it's for me to fire me. He Because I know I'm done after that because it's real awkward. He walks outside, he hands me this envelope of cash, and he goes, go give this to that guy that said there was a light out there last night. He goes, go fire him. He goes, there was no light. He goes, good job. He walked back in, and I knew right then and there he was playing major head games with everybody.

Why is he wasting his time playing head games?

I don't know. I don't know, Sean. I think it was a mix of, uh, alcohol, certain drugs maybe, um, his own paranoia, and then actual some truth behind it. Some truth to— because later on, as we were moving 6 times in 2 years, we would see—

6 times in 2 years?

6 times we would move. Kind of like an Airbnb situation. But one of the times he literally left his entire— he had museum relics like that belong in the Smithsonian Institute. He literally would— he literally would say, are you with me, son? And I would be like, yes, sir, I'm with you. And he would say, okay, grab your bag, we're going. And I was like, sir, what about all— what about your house? What about this museum? There's a 2,500-year-old Buddha doll. There's a samurai, uh, you know, the big head stuff. I mean, crazy stuff. And he said, leave it. He said, where you— how— where you going to go with that, Jimmy? You going to take it with us? He said, we, we don't need it. And he would just literally leave. He left that whole house in Lexington, Tennessee with freaking relics in it. Wow.

Never to return.

No. He said sell it. He said sell it, try to sell it or something. Dirt cheap, whatever. He had zero attachments to things or people, and that's what made him so dangerous, because he had nothing. No, he had no— owed nobody. Interesting.

What are you thinking this whole time? How long? How much time had passed? So you meet him in Lexington, Tennessee?

Yeah.

How much time are you there for? About—

well, standing over in the middle of the night, standing over me, uh, running it through these weird tests and running me through these tests with money and stuff. Sometimes he overpays me and I tell him, you overpaid me. He goes, I don't need it. The next time he grabs it from my hand, he goes, that's what I thought. You know, like the honesty game. He— I, I, at one point I'm like, sir, don't you need— don't you need my credentials? I mean, I was kind of proud of my career, you know, having to, having to fight and stay in like that and still have honorable on there. He goes, I don't need your DD-214. You can fraud— you can create that out of nothing. He goes, but give me your passport. And I was like, that's pretty wise. So I gave him my passport. He checked my passport, stuff like that. He was always doing weird stuff. He was a pretty smart guy. And the second— so I'm there for About a year. But during this time, I also asked him, like, like one of the first days I'm there, he's got bags all by his door, these suitcases, on the second day that I'm there.

And I said, sir, are you leaving somewhere? I was hoping we would leave somewhere besides Lexington. He said, well, Trump and Hillary were in that race against each other. You know, Hillary was kind of about to win it. He goes, if Hillary won, I was about to leave the country. I said, I said, why? And this is when I started to realize that we had so close similarities. And I think this is why I became so close with John McAfee, uh, like a son almost, is because we had so many similarities in our stories, uh, with the DOJ and corruption. And he goes, he goes, Jimmy, he goes, I have information, terabytes of information on— and he named her, and he named 3 or 4 other people in the DOJ that I knew about, that if I said their name right now, you'd say, oh yeah, I know. He goes, I— and he goes, and a bunch of other politicians. And he goes, I have horrible, horrible stuff on these people. I have terrible stuff on them. And I didn't know what to believe at the time, Sean. But because of my situation and how the FBI had lied to my commander with the memo, I knew.

And he put those guys in prison from Blackwater. I knew that they were capable of anything. And so he tells me he has 3 terabytes of information or a bunch of information on Hillary and others. Well, a couple of days later, he brings out an envelope with these hard drives in it and a bunch of cash. He says, we're going to Miami. We go to Miami, me and him in the group, in the group. And he hands it off to 2 guys in a cafe, the cash and the hard drives. He says, I didn't see the hard drives, but he said there's an envelope and big envelope and the cash. He gives it to these 2 guys. He walks out and he said, son, I'll never forget, Sean. He said, son, If anything ever happens to me, I did not kill myself, and that information on all these people is going to be released. I later understood this as the dead man's— everybody kept talking about the dead man switch. Here I am, having been part of it, didn't even know what it was. But so, so supposedly these 2 guys had this information and they were supposed to release it if anything happened to John McAfee.

As crazy as that sounds.

What was— what was in there? You know?

I don't know. He said horrible, disgusting, terrible stuff. And now that we have seen the Epstein stuff, I— it feels like kind of along those lines. But I don't know for sure. I'm not going to sit here and say otherwise. You know.

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Right.

From the get-go, he's running you through all these games.

Right.

Which I kind of get, but on the other hand, I don't.

Well, he was, he was a brilliant tactician. And, uh, the thing that I, that I always say with John is everything he said always came true. As outlandish and crazy as it sounds, he would tell these wild stories, but it ended up coming true. So I— so after a while, you're just like, Maybe this guy's on to something. Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe, maybe I don't know anything. But I had an inclination to lean towards John with his stories because of my terrible experience with the FBI, knowing that they would destroy your life if they could.

Why is he so paranoid, though?

Well, so John was saying that bugs were in people's computers in the '70s. Can you imagine that? And everybody laughing at you all the time. He said, Jimmy, people used to laugh at me and I would tell them there's bugs in your computer and you don't know it. And people laugh. And then he came up with a solution. Well, Napoleon said, you want to be a great leader, point out a problem and then provide the solution. So maybe perhaps John McAfee created the problem and then provided the solution, created the bug and then created the antivirus.

Hmm.

Or perhaps he provided just a solution. But keep in mind, John McAfee was working on the Apollo mission. He had letters of commendation from Colin Powell, uh, thanking him for his work on the Patriot missiles intercepting the Scuds, uh, during Desert Storm.

So he had a bunch of defense tech.

And thank you for— oh yeah, thank you for your donation of computers. He was always donating to the government all kinds of computers and then spying on the government. So he had all this information. This is true stuff. This is not conspiracy.

And, uh, he would donate computers to the government.

Donating computers to the government. Now remember, I remember a programmer once tried to correct McAfee on something. He always had these genius programmer weirdos around him. You got to be a real weirdo if you're an excellent programmer. And he had these— a guy that— one of the programmers tried to correct him. He said, but John McAfee, this, this. And John McAfee looked at him and said, silence. And he said, you don't understand that I was programming computers the size of your house before you were born. So don't speak to me unless I speak to you, okay? Everybody's like, damn. Like he was programming computers the size, you know, computers used to be massive. There's pictures of him, you know, with these big, you know, the big— and he was, he was a big proponent in iMessaging. McAfee kind of— McAfee antivirus overshadows all the real cool stuff he did. He was a big proponent in our iMessaging today. He invented a lot of stuff.

Really? He was in Apple?

He was all— yeah, he was good friends with Steve Jobs. Real good friends with Steve Jobs. He, he was good friends with Bill Gates, except he said he would rather nail his toe to the floor and starve to death than have another dinner with Bill Gates. He was so boring. Hmm.

Did he— guess they didn't see him on Epstein Island, huh?

Yeah, exactly. And I guarantee you McAfee wasn't on Epstein Island.

You don't think so?

McAfee was— was— had a dark side. But I believe that McAfee was tremendously against the abuse of people and especially animals. And I think when you're so against the abuse of animals, it is a childhood inner thing going on where you're protective over human beings too. Like, he would rough me up sometimes. He slapped me once, like hard.

Boom.

You know, after a business decision I made, uh, stuff like that. So, but he was real caring of his animals. And remember, John McAfee was accused of murdering his neighbor in Belize, and so he goes on the run and he escaped the Belizean government. And so that's when I meet up with him, right after he comes back from being on the run from the Belize government. For—

you meet up with him after that?

Right after that.

What's the story with that?

Well, John McAfee literally took me in like a son, and part of maybe his grooming towards me, I don't know, he was calling me intelligent. And this is the first time I ever hear this, Sean. And so I go from hanging myself last year in the worst of the worst dungeon like Joseph to in charge of his entire empire and to the CEO of his company because I'm just running everything. And I'm sorry, I didn't Hear your question. I was going somewhere. Doesn't matter, keep going. Yeah, yeah.

And so— Oh, the story with the dogs.

Oh, so John, John got to— you know that, that 3 can keep a secret if 2 are dead thing? Like, everybody wants to tell their story or their secrets, and they have to. And so, but John McAfee was the only one with these secrets. So who does he tell? Not Janice, Maybe Janice, but for me—

Who's Janice?

His wife. But for me, he would get me, uh, he, he would start to drink and he would come sit next to me, or he'd just start telling me stories, dark stories about how he killed his father.

He killed his father?

Yes. In the way he describes it, I guarantee you he did. I don't doubt him.

How did he kill him? Why did he kill him?

Well, he comes from an Irish descent, and his dad was from World War II, a very— had PTSD, had seen some real bad stuff in World War II. And his dad would drink and beat his mom and beat him. And this goes into the neighbor story of Belize, why I think it's possible. But John was shaking one time. He had red bloodshot eyes and he was shaking. You know, drinking, and he leaned into me and it was like tears. And he said, son, he goes, my grandpa, my grandpa was a good man, but my dad, he was a terrible man. He would beat me. He goes, one time he put my— made me put my arm out on the table and he hit me with a billy club and he cracked my arm in half. And he said, he beat my mom, son. He beat my mom. And I'd say, I'm sorry, sir. Like, I wouldn't know what to say. You know, I just sit there and listen. And he would just pour this stuff out. And he said, and he says, and he said, my grandpa though was a good man. And he taught me how to use a .22 long rifle.

And he said, he taught me weapon safety. He taught me how to cross a fence with a long rifle. And he showed me how, you know, and he showed me how to accuracy shooting. And he said, he gave me this .22, Jim. And he says, and he says, but I watched my dad beat my mom over and over. And he put her in the hospital one time.

Wow.

And so I came up to him and I said, I said, you touch Mom again, I'm gonna kill you. He goes, do you understand me? And it's very important to realize that John McAfee, one time in a business negotiation, I said, why don't you bluff him, sir? And he grabbed me, he said, you never bluff. He goes, there's a no bluff policy. He had a no bluff policy. He never bluffed nobody. If he said it, it was happening 100%. And so he said that he told his dad that if he touched his mom one more time, he was going to kill him. And his dad beat him for that. And he took the beating hard. And he said the next time he put his mom in the hospital again, he said he went in the back room, he picked up the long rifle. He said he walked down the hallway and his dad was shaving with a razor, straight razor, in the mirror with the shaving cream still on his face. His dad saw him in the mirror and he said, what the hell are you going to do with that boy? And John raised the rifle and pulled the trigger right behind his head.

And he just dropped the rifle and ran out. And he just slumped over on the ground. And he said his neighbor came out and said, John, what have you done? What have you done? And he goes, I just killed my dad. He goes, I just killed my dad. He just kept repeating it. And he said, stay here. And his neighbor ran in there. Now keep in mind, his neighbor has been hearing all this abuse. You know, they had real tight houses back in England. He was born in 1945 in England. But, uh, and so he's in there about 10 minutes and he comes out and he grabs John. He says, John, the police are coming. He says, you did not kill your dad. He killed himself. Do you understand me? And he slapped John around. And John said, no, I did. He goes, no, you did not. And that was that. And the sad part about the story is John's own mother abandoned him after that because she knew what he had done for her, but her loyalty was with his father. So John was a very capable of dealing out death and not having much hope in humanity and trust from his background.

So what's the dog story?

He loved his dog Tequila, the pit bull Tequila, and these 2 canines. And he had dogs before this in Belize, right before I met him. I didn't know any of this at the time. But I, I knew there was rumor that he had killed— that was a big thing, was that, that the neighbor poisoned John McAfee's dogs. And then the neighbor ends up getting shot in the back of the head with a shotgun. Um, and everybody kind of thought, figured it was McAfee. McAfee, of course, said, no, it wasn't me. Um, and but one day we came back home and one of the guards kind of shoved the dog like kind of kicked the dog. And John McAfee said, you know what happens to people who are hurt by dogs, right? And, uh, and he looked at me and he said, you understand? And I said, I understand, sir. Like, I understand. So he was telling me, like, without telling me, I'll kill you, you know, if you mess with my dogs.

Shit. So you meet him right after this?

I met him right after this. And, you know, John, he would donate a fire truck. He was brilliant. He would donate a fire truck to each town that we went to and each town that he lived in before me too. And I said, so why do you donate a fire truck? He said, son, he said, you don't ever donate to the police because it seems like bribery. He goes, but what you do to win the town over is you donate a fire truck. He goes, if you donate a fire truck, you can do anything in that town that you want to, and nobody will ever say a damn word to you. And I said, okay. So he would donate a fire truck. And then he said, um, and then something else about McAfee, he treated everybody equal. If you're a bum on the street, you might as well be a billionaire to him. A billionaire, a bum, didn't matter. So everybody was level to him. He didn't see color. His wife is a very well-known, uh, prostitute from Miami that was super Black woman. She's a very, very dark, dark-skinned color woman. Very, very dark.

So he was colorblind. He didn't see color. He, he didn't judge. He, he, he kind of knew you before you, you even spoke. Like one time he said, son, come here. And I sat down across from him and he looked deep in my eyes and he said, son, he said, You're a lost ship in the dark, abysmal night at sea. And he painted this dark picture. And I started kind of shaking and started— it hit me hard. This guy barely knew me, by the way. This is kind of in the beginning. And he went in this big explanation how I was this lost ship in the night, floating around in the sea. And it hit me hard and it kind of made me emotional, triggered me. And he goes, how do I know? Because I was asking him, how do I know? He goes— and he finished my sentence. He goes, how do I know? And I said, yes. And he said, because I am that lost sheep. And so I had— whether it was through manipulation or whatever, he got me by the— I mean, I would have done anything for McAfee after what I went through.

He pulled me out of hell. I thought, and gave me everything. Bentley, boat, houses, everything you can imagine was in my name, which at the time I thought was amazing. But he put everything in my name and I was making, I mean, just unbelievable amount of money. And so all of a sudden I go from the dungeon to the palace in charge. I got my own guards, you know, uh, not that I need them really, but I'm with McAfee and I'm the boss now. They're calling me boss and I'm like, don't call me boss. And McAfee reprimands me for that. And so they start— so, so he's like, don't ever correct somebody if they call you boss. What are you, stupid? He goes, they call you boss, you're boss. He goes, there can only be one in charge, Jimmy. And so he made me in charge. He goes, I'm retiring, I'm out. You're gonna do everything. Because he taught me everything. in a very short period of time. It was very stressful. He taught me all about crypto and, and, and this and this and this and negotiating. But his negotiations were non-negotiable, so it was the easiest negotiation.

I would just sit down with the Russians, some Russian oligarchs that wanted to do a major crypto deal, and they would come out with their vodka and girls. I'd say, save it, save it, save it. I said, we don't need that. It's just, here are the terms. And then, no, no, no, buddy, drink. And I say, We can drink, we can do cocaine, we can, we can party with your girls all night, but the terms are the terms. It's non-negotiable. And they'd be like, who does this? McAfee. It needs to be paid every 24 hours. However you want to pay him— wire, Bitcoin, Ethereum— every 24 hours. And if the payment doesn't go through, it's over. The deal's over. He was charging $100,000 a tweet. $100,000 a tweet. He had a million followers on Twitter and 75% of them did what he said to do like this. So can you imagine the power you have in crypto? So you name the coin of the day. The coin of the day is Doge. The Doge price rockets. He makes $3 or $4 million. I make a couple hundred thousand. in one day.

Shit.

The coin of the day is red coin. It goes up 100, 200%, and then it falls back down. And so I wasn't in this at first, Sean, and then I thought, what the hell am I doing? Uh, John McAfee didn't coerce me into this. I said, sir, how do I do this? He goes, son, don't— he goes, don't ever ask for advice, you know, about this business. He goes, just do it. And so I started doing it on my own. I was picking out the coins, I was doing everything for him. He was looking for a certain volume, a certain mass, and his crypto traders were like, don't listen to Jimmy, he don't know what the hell's going on. He doesn't know about math, he doesn't know about math, he doesn't know the numbers, he doesn't know about crypto. And John would tell me this and he'd say, Jimmy, what do you say? Are you sure about Red Coin? Are you sure about Doge, these coins? And I'd say, sir, it has nothing to do about math. That's where you messed up. And he'd say, how dare you? I was a mathematician and all this.

And he goes, and all my crypto traders are saying that you're wrong on this coin pick. How's it going to shoot? I said, you don't understand. You have the power and influence to move this and you don't realize it. I said, so you can go with me And I was risking everything, Sean. He goes, I got $2 million on this. Are you sure? And he would go against his crypto traders and go with my word, and the price would shoot up because it wasn't me, it was his power and influence. And I figured the numbers, and I was taking chances a little risky too. Well, I was making him millions. And so now I become like his closest confidant, his lucky— charm, his Irish luck thing. I have Irish in me. I mean, he luck, you know, we're both like— like, he's like, Jimmy's my piece of— like, he's— and he's my protection now. He won't even go to sleep without me around. And now I'm like, where's his wife at? With him in the room. But if— but, but, but I would sleep real close to his door with the door cracked open, and, uh, or Uh, but it was dangerous too because he could shoot through the walls.

He would shoot through the door. It was really dangerous environment. Shot through the glass one night.

He would just shoot, just random shit, just randomly shoot the office pop.

Yeah, just why? In the middle of the night, he said somebody was coming in his room.

He's—

people, people, uh, uh, one time he took the shotgun and ran outside and just blasted underneath the house. with slugs. Well, my room was the basement, and my wife at the time was in there, and I'm thinking, I'm gonna get my girl killed here. This is a horribly dangerous environment, super volatile. So long story short, Sean, um, the only time— so I'm running his entire business, he's taught me everything, and I'm like his lucky charm, his son. We move into a mansion called the Love Boat because it was done after the Love Boat series. It's a mansion that looks like a ship in a weird way.

And it was—

and it's just— it has an elevator, beautiful. And it was on the Ocracoke Sound where Blackbeard used to evade the British man-of-war ships in the shallows. It overlooked the sound. My office was huge. It was like this room right here. It had big glass looking over the sound. And I used to read about Blackbeard and the British man-of-war ships in the shallows. When I was a kid, and here I am, come from West Texas. Now I'm running the whole McAfee empire. I've got so much money. I've got money. I got, I got money I don't even know what to do with. And now I'm— now I go from that SEAL with a handgun, not drinking, to doing blow, speed up through a nasal spray. I'm doing everything and anything all the time and running this company. And but I'm starting to get paranoid like him. I'm starting to lose touch with reality.

Why are you getting paranoid?

Probably because I was, you know, um, you know, Adderall is probably one of the worst freaking drugs out there. I tell you, you know, you stay up for 3 days and don't sleep, you know, you know, when you don't sleep for long periods of times, you start talking to your boots, you know. Uh, and I think that played into McAfee staying up night after night. You start having chaotic episodes. Uh, I was crushing up Adderall, I was taking all kinds of stuff. His crypto traders were always having big piles of cocaine and girls everywhere. We were flying to Ibiza, we were, we were partying everywhere, uh, partying with Russian oligarchs on their, on their private jet planes. He was keynote speaker at a lot of places. He would go for free because the business that we would pick up there— and I would work while we were on these cruises and travel. I would do all— I would have a line of 10, 15 businesses on the cruise waiting to speak to me at the table. I just sat there, drank, and gave the terms, and I was getting 20%, 30% of it.

Jeez.

Yeah.

So he was a wild— he was partier, wild man.

He, he would not do drugs in front of anybody, uh, so I I, to be honest, I, I never saw him do drugs, Sean. It was almost like he was ashamed to do that in front of me, like, as like a dad figure. I know that sounds weird. And if he caught me doing it, he would have slapped me around. But we both knew that it was going on in the same house, you know.

How many places did you guys move?

Uh, I think we moved 6 times. 1, 2, Okay, 5 times.

Where would you move? Where'd you go from Tennessee?

Uh, Tennessee to Ocracoke. Ocracoke, uh, to Frisco, to Ocracoke, back to Frisco, all along the North Carolina coast there in the Love Mansion, the Love Boat. And so the only time I leave Janice— and this is when it gets weird— there's people visiting all the time, there's weirdos visiting all the time, uh, there's the guys that look like they're working for the CIA visiting, you know, like people that just don't like get a suit and they go out in the field and talk for a long time with their hands like this. And I don't know if it's that he's involved in the mob, the Irish mob. I don't know. I don't know what's going on. His Uncle Carl was a major player for the Irish mob. We visited him in his office. He did time. He did 2 years in a fed, and the feds never ratted him out. So he was a made man after that. Um, and, uh, so, uh, the only time I ever left John McAfee was one time, and it was to take Janice, his wife, to the airport. She was gonna go see her brother that was in prison, that was in a coma.

He was beat to death, in a coma, in prison. And she was really hurt about that and in shock. John said, I trust you to take her, but please come back as soon as possible. Obviously, and he had anxiety. And Jenna said, why don't you have one of the other guards take me? Leave Jimmy here with you so you can be at peace. He said, no, I want Jimmy to take you because you're, you know, you know, a wife, you know. So I took him— I took her to the airport in Virginia. I drive back as fast as I can. I get back to the Love Boat mansion and the door's open. It's just an eerie feeling. I go in, it's hot. I'm like, what the hell? And I'm like, where's the guards? And one of the guards is super bright red. He's been out on the boat all day. I said, where is the boss? The real, the real boss? He's like, he's in bed. I said, what are y'all doing? Y'all been drinking or what? He's like, we were out on the boat all day. I said, okay. And so I go to his room, John McAfee's room, and I'm cautious because you don't want to get shot.

So in the, in the fatal funnel, the threshold, and I saw— I walk up on the side And the door's cracked open. I crack it open and he's butt naked on the bed. He's sprawled out like this, just snoring, sleeping, but heavy. I said, what the hell? So I kind of just go like this and I go lay down on the couch. And I slept right in front of his door on the couch. And he would always bust through that door at 6:00 AM in the morning. 6:00 AM in the morning comes around, nothing. I'm like, oh, thank God. I can sleep a little bit. 8:00 AM comes around. Nothing. I go, oh man, something's wrong. I get up, I go over the door, and it's closed this time. It was open, it's closed, like somebody closed it. I go and I open it, and he's still in the same position, but he's black and blue, like, uh, like dead, like, and making noises like this. He was like, like rhythmic noises. And I'm like Sean, I, I had it freaked out in battle. I, I, I, I was oddly comfortable in war, weirdly comfortable.

But that right there, I don't know why I freaked out. I screamed. I panicked. I, I, I— he was covered in urine, black and blue, gasping. I knew it was over. I put my hands under him, £220. It was the heaviest lift I've ever done. off of a soft bed, like onto the ground. I just fell back on me, and then I started doing CPR, screaming to the guards. The guards were not coming up. Um, and, uh, finally, you know, I got the guards to call the medics, and they, they lie-flatted him out, and he goes on a ventilator, life support, for 3 days. And, uh, and the whole time I'm just holding his hand. And I'm praying to God. I'm like, God, please, please don't let John McAfee die. Please don't let him die. I don't even know what to do if he would die. Like, what would happen? Like, and the doctors come in and say, listen, it's over. He's pretty much dead. Even if he does live, it looks like he's going to be brain dead. And the first thought that came to my mind was, Man, what, what a tragedy.

This guy was this incredible storyteller. He knew Mandarin Chinese, Russian. He could do it in, in, you know, 18th century poetry. He could say it in different languages. He, he could just destroy interviewers and, and all kinds of stuff. He had all kinds of tricks. And, um, here he is dying or dead, you know, with a ventilator, this machine. His hands are tied like this. kind of like that, you know, from grabbing the tube. And, um, I hold his hand for 3 days and 3 nights pretty much, and I'm praying. And, uh, on the 3rd day, the, the doctors are like, um, we didn't find anything in him. No drugs, nothing but a little trace amount of THC. They said, do you know what happened, Jimmy? Please tell us if you know something. And I said, I don't know anything. Of course I'm going to say that, but I really didn't know anything. I knew he was snorting like nootropics and weird different stuff, like different stuff. But, but they couldn't explain why he was like that. They didn't find any drugs in his system except for the THC. So on the 3rd day, he starts to like kick and growl, growl like, like, you know, and I can see his hands.

This is the worst case situation for a guy like John McAfee. uh, to be in this situation with the, um, with the— his hands tied, you know, because he's like anti all of this. And, um, he, he's motioning to— I finally understand he's motioning to write something. So I put a marker in his hand, I loosened his hands up, and he writes, I'm gonna kill you, in scribble big.

You?

Yeah, I'll kill you, like that. And I said, sir, I said, sir, it's not me. I swear I didn't kill you. It can't be me. I said, I went to— I'm like trying to explain my situation to John, and he's dying, you know. Uh, I'm like, sir, I don't know what happened to you, okay? But I took Janice to the airport. I came back and found you like this. He's angry. He's so freaking mad, Sean. He's, he's just— you could tell he's growling and growling. And, and Janice gets there finally back from California. And, and I said, Janice, I think he thinks I tried to kill him, or somebody did, one of the guards. He's pissed. He's gonna do something crazy if he ever gets out of here. And so Janice demands— Janice believes that John is telling her to take out the ventilator. And so, uh, Janice goes to the, to the doctors and says, you better take that ventilator out of him. Now keep in mind, he's been out for 3 days and 3 nights, and now he's all of a sudden moving around. They said, if we take that out, it's over for him.

90% chance his lungs are going to collapse. And so she basically said she's going to sue him. And I didn't want to take it out even. I was like, golly, listen to him, man, because it was so devastating.

After—

long story short, they, they go ahead and they, they take it out. They tell— I'll never forget the, the sounds he made. And they took it out. He was coughing up so much terrible stuff, infection and weird. And, and within a couple hours He's, he's like, give me a deck of cards. And he wants to do his card tricks. He's got crazy tricks, you know, where he could just show you— he can name any card and show it to you. Name any card, pull tricks. He was crazy. So, um, when we get back to the house, Sean, I, I asked him because I'm curious, you know, I'm real curious all the time. I'm like, I'm like, sir, did you see anything? Did you see anything when you were out like that? And he looked at me abruptly and he said, don't, don't ever ask me that again. He was scared. He had experienced something in that 3 days that he didn't want to talk about. But later on, he called me in his room and he said, uh, he said, son, I was flying at light speed across the ocean floor. Now keep in mind, John McAfee, I don't know if you want to call him an atheist.

He did not believe in God whatsoever.

Nothing.

He said, I was flying over the ocean floor at light speed. He said, in every dark color in the world— the blacks, the browns, the grays, even dark purple and red, uh, and blood red— was in the water. Every dark color you can imagine. He says, and out of this water, as I'm going light speed across the ocean, he said, these hands and these tortured faces came out of the water. and up at him like they were coming from hell and pulling him down. And he said he was being pulled into this. He said it was— he said it was scary, son. He said it was real scary. He said, but then all of a sudden, he said, out of this corner of his eye, he said, every most beautiful color you could ever imagine in your life was in the sky. The turquoise, the pinks, the, the beautiful, you know, all the light colors up there. He says, and there was a white cloud This bright white cloud. He said it had opened up as he was going right down into the ocean abyss. He says, right when it was opening up, a voice said, come here, it's time.

And he knew that it was time for his judgment. Keep in mind, he doesn't know God or anything. He said, but I knew, son, that I was about to be judged and my whole life was about to be judged. He said, and I screamed. He goes, it wasn't the hands that scared me. It wasn't the hell that scared me. It was the judgment that scared me. He goes, and I screamed. And he goes, that's when I woke up and I was looking at you.

Shit. He told you this in the hospital?

Yeah. No, he told me this when we got back. Uh, he wouldn't say anything at the hospital. He told me never to ask him again.

So what wound up convincing him that you didn't try to kill him?

Um, Janice had to talk to him a long time, and she said, just logically think about it, John. Jimmy took me to the airport, and when he got back, you're— and I told him my part of the story, and he chose to believe me. He chose to believe it, but it shook me up real bad.

Do you think somebody tried to kill him?

He, he believes that somebody tried to kill him. He said that there was a prick in his toe when he put his shoe on, and that was a way that, uh, espionage— the guys that got killed before, assassinated— is they poison a, you know, a, um, a little thing in your shoe or whatever. But that's about it. There was no explanation for his, uh, what happened to him. And I thought that was freaking weird. The chances and coincidences of me being gone that day and then coming back and he's like that, that's pretty far out there. That's pretty, you know, yeah, wild.

How many times had you been with him when he thought somebody was trying to kill him, or was just— it was just all All the time.

All the time. He always thought somebody was after him. We would have cars circle the house a lot, the same cars. We would run their tags. Uh, we were always counter-surveillance. There was weird stuff. People, people— I mean, weird shit would happen. And, uh, like, I admit it, and I was not— I was very— I come kind of from a background of, like, logic, thinking logically, not conspiracy and all. So for me, it was like I always kind of was like doubting, but I was like, no, that was weird. That was freaking weird. Like, there was to be a guy with a full-blown camera, like you— like you're in the movies and he's spying on you, like obvious, with a full-blown camera, like across the parking lot taking pictures, and then see us and then like— and then run and jump in a car and go. That's freaking weird. It's like— sounds like a movie, and it— it's aw— it's— it's weird, right?

Mm-hmm.

Like almost too obvious too.

So where do we— what happens when he gets better? Does he get back on his feet?

Gets back on his feet. Uncle Carl has told him to. He's the only guy he'd ever listen to was Uncle Carl, the mob guy. And, uh, Uncle Carl told him, you've been drinking? And John McAfee said, yes, sir. And Uncle Carl said, you know, cut your drinking in half and your smoking in half. And he said, yes, sir. And he did. He cut it to one bottle a day of scotch. and one pack of cigarettes. He was at 2. So he cut everything in half. Uh, but things are just getting out of control and spiraling out of control for me and John. Like, I'm doing all this business, I'm up all the time, I'm just running off of fumes, Sean, and it's, it's extremely not healthy. Me and my girl, our connection is non-existent. Like, I'm like thinking, I'm providing the best life in the world for you. I used to yell that at her. I'm providing Everything for you. Like, like, there's nothing that you don't have. Nothing. Name it. You have Bitcoins, you have this. And, uh, and, and, but there was no connection. There was no dates, not even mini golf I could go out.

I had too much stuff going on. No balance, off my rocker. And I was gonna pay for that. And, uh, so, uh, John McAfee um, basically has given me everything, and, uh, and it's all about to come crashing down on me real hard. Uh, and so one night, uh, basically one night—

What was he meeting with all the mobsters about? You know, you're talking about the Russian mob, the Irish mob, all these people. What would he meet with them? I mean, he's a software antivirus guy.

He just had Well, uh, one of the famous guys for Whitey Bulger who's in a lot of the recordings the FBI took, he was there at the house as part of our security, and he had a direct relation to John McAfee, like his nephew. Uh, and then Uncle Carl had direct connection to the Whitey Bulger in that, that the, the Ryder Small uh, being their lawyer, and he didn't snitch out. He didn't, uh, rat out what he was caught up in. He had to do 2 years for him. So when he got out, he was— he became a super prominent lawyer. Um, and so there was all these weird connections all the time and people coming over to the house. The Russians were always wanting to do big deals with crypto.

Oh, okay.

And they were willing to do anything for that shit. I had a guy try to give me $400,000 just to tell him the coin of the day, and I brought him to McAfee and said, tell McAfee what you just told me. You know, I was pretty loyal to a fault, you know.

So continue, continue on.

So basically, uh, I, I, I'm sitting there one night, Sean, and I don't know if it was God or I don't know what happened. I just basically was sitting there in the middle of this beautiful office. I had all this stuff and, and I just, I just kind of stopped writing, stopped doing my stuff, and I just stopped. And, and I kind of felt like it's over. Like I just knew it was over. It's like, you know, it's over, right? I heard that. Like, you know, it's over, right? And I was like, yeah. And of course, how reliable is this information based off of what I just said about doing Adderall and being up all the time? But I really felt in that moment, uh, a voice tell me to just get out. Get out of the house. You know it's over. And so maybe it was running off my paranoia. Maybe I had turned into a little— a little mini McAfee, but I just ran from the house. I just took my shit and ran, bro. I, I left the gold. I left all my silver. I left everything and ran. And I just left and went back to Texas for 3 days out in the, the woods.

I needed to separate and get out of there because I was— I started to become delusional.

I started—

he made it, he made it such a horrendous, terrible environment to live in that you didn't know what was truth and what was real and what was— he had electronic shit everywhere. I'd come in and my drawers were undone. Uh, I came in one time and a freaking arrow, as weird as this is, was— had been shot through the window laying in my room like a message. I'm Googling what does arrow mean, you know. There's always something. There's big things. And, uh, I just look over and there's a big thing plugged into the wall in my room, electronic thing, you know. One day he calls me in, John calls me and he goes, look at this, son. And I looked and I never went into his bedroom. But he called me into his bedroom and I looked at his phone and it was like live streaming everybody's text messages live on his phone. Like, it would be like if you had your, your personal phone shown and show me and all, all your people here where you could see all their personal messages.

He's sitting there watching this shit?

Yes. And he, and he showed me and I— he just showed me briefly and I— and he goes, what do you think? And I said, sir, I said, I am so sorry, because I was probably talking shit like this old bastard gonna run me into the ground. I said, I'm sorry, sir, if I said anything bad. He said, it's okay.

Holy shit.

So I mean, what do you do with that? Like, it's not just some crazy old man, it's somebody with unbelievable skills. And you asked me earlier, Sean, like, why would he do all this? if, if you're so brilliant like John McAfee was, I think he looks at it as a game and he's bored or something. And so he wants to create like just a world of chaos around him and manipulation and, and plants and people. Because people would come over and, and say stuff to me like, Jimmy, you know that if John McAfee dies There's some— a million dollars cash under his sink, right? And if he dies, let's not call the ambulance. Let's just me and you go and grab it. I'd snatch him up so fast for saying that. Like, was it a test? Like, at one point I felt like, you know, I had never done LSD, by the way, until I met my girl now. Sorry to put on a blast, but, but we— when I was on the run, I met Anastasia, my Moscow Russian beautiful princess, you know. And, uh, and, uh, we went on this hiatus of LSD and, and different, different, you know, mushrooms and all these things and the festivals and cop on God everywhere, me and her.

And during that time, the only other time I had felt like what I felt like with her at the festival was when I was McAfee. And I remember I had a horrible trip for 3 days, like something crazy happened to me. And I thought I had a big paranoid— I thought I had a big PTSD thing happen. I could hear machine guns, people walking around like a big firefight around me. And I came back and McAfee was like, son, it's okay, it's okay. And he had these 3 or 4 big pills that he told me were for reversing uh, horrible trips and stuff. And he tried— and he gave them to me. He said, take these, take them, take them. And he said, drink this, and a big thing of scotch. And, and I took it, and I was okay after that. And I said, don't fuck with me again, man. I said, I said, sir, you, you're fucking with the wrong guy. Like, I, I don't know what— I don't know what you did to me or why you would do that to me. And then I saw a documentary later on that he had drugged women and stuff.

And so I'm, I'm like, He would never do that to me like that, like drug me like I pass out, but it was like he was pressing me.

Why do you think he would do that?

I think he was so untrusting, so paranoid that he had to test me all the time. I walked out of the house with my little dog Tookie, the Chihuahua, to walk outside. I walked out just for a 5-minute break, Sean. I come back. This is at the big Love Boat mansion. I'm walking back, brother, and the, the, the neighbor starts walking towards me. I look at her, I say, stop right there. Don't come close to me. Don't come close to me. I don't— you know, don't walk towards me. I'm telling you, don't. And she's like, no, I have a letter for you. It's— it's— and I said, I don't want it. I'm not gonna accept it. We're not allowed to accept mail here. We don't accept mail. We don't get sued. We don't answer no court, nothing ever. You wrap your phones in foil. She, she goes, it's your freaking bill for your lawn. You're not paying your lawn bill for Hernandez or whatever. And so I said, okay, give it to me. I grab it from her real quick. I go upstairs and McAfee is just— he's got his hand on his gun. He's just like pissed at me.

Red bloodshot eyes in my chair, my nice chair that he gave me that he would never sit in. He made that on purpose. But this time he's sitting on it on a power move. And he's like, how fucking dare you, son? He goes, I trusted you with everything. And, you know, big drama. And I'm like, sir, calm down. Number one, you reached out to me. Number two, this is your bill. You got to pay your freaking bills. It's a $50 lawn bill.

$50?

Yeah, $50. And he's like, oh shit. He's like, well, pay that debit. And I'm like, no, you pay it, sir. You want to kick me out of here? You want to fire me? No, none of this shit's gonna get done anymore. I do everything. And so I would go back and forth with him, banter a little bit, but not, not, not in a disrespectful way, but, but a little bit. But nobody else would dare do that. You know, we had that kind of relationship at that point because he needed me and I needed him.

Mm-hmm.

And, and And so I end up leaving, and I'm out on this farm for 3 days.

Leaving as in you quit?

Yeah, pretty much. I just left. And I call him back and I said, sir, I think I'm done. I said, all I want is, uh, you know, my 30% you owe me, uh, that we agreed on. Because he was a deal— he's a man of his word, you know, no bluff, man of your word. I said, all I want is that. He said, you fought— you, you left me holding the bags. You beat— you know, all this stuff. How dare you? He goes, I knew, I knew I couldn't trust you. I knew, I knew I couldn't trust you. And I was like, sir, let's, let's stop all the games. Let's, let's stop all the games. Like, you, you'll never— you never would trust me, and I never backstabbed you. I was loyal to the, to the death for you, man, and you ran me into the ground, and now this is the fallout from it. So I just want my 30% and be left gone. And he said, well, fuck you, you're not getting— you're not going to get your 30%. I said, okay. And so I got to think about it. I called him back and I said, hey sir, I said, it took me about a day to come to terms because I wanted to think about— because it was real dangerous to mess with.

Like, you don't mess with a guy like a master chess player like McAfee. But then it dawned on me, Sean. I said, wait a second. I hold all the cards. Everything is in my name. If he doesn't give me my little 30%, I don't want his shit, but I have way more leverage than him. And so I decided to get cocky, you know. I drank some, I got some whiskey in me, and, uh, I call him up. I said, hey sir. He goes, what? I said, now you listen to me.

Son.

He goes, oh yeah? I said, yeah. I said, you listen to me. I said, you're gonna do exactly what I tell you, and for the first time ever, I win. I said, you're smart, but you weren't this smart. And I said, now this is what you're gonna do. I said, you're gonna give me 30%, or I will freaking steamroll you into the ground with everything that I have of yours, all your property, Everything is mine. And I said, do you understand me now? I'm treating him real bad. And he's like, are you done? And I said, yeah. He said, uh, you know that beautiful little princess of yours? Your— my ex-wife, which was my wife at the time. I said, yeah. He goes, she signed everything over to me, Jimmy. I said, uh, shit. I said, I said, how? He goes, you know what a power of attorney is? And I said, I said, all I could say is well done. I said, well done, sir. I said, but you the boss now. I will do whatever you say. And he goes, now, now, now I'm gonna do what I want to do. I'll give you your 30%.

He goes, but I'm gonna take a little off for your little disrespect— disrespectful phone call. Hey, you play big boy games, Bill. Uh, JB Bonnie— JB Money the Bull Rider said, you, you play the game, you better get ready to endure the pain.

Shit.

So betrayal. But I kind of had it coming, you know. I could— I didn't have much to stand on. I didn't have much to fight back with. I didn't have a lot of leverage to fight back with. I couldn't say, how dare you? Of course I did. I called my wife at the time. And keep in mind, this is, you know, always and forever, forever, always, our quote, our passwords, everything, you know, always and forever, forever and always love you. This is, this is a girl that I carried up the stairs in the SEAL Teams when she broke her neck and I wiped her ass and bathed her. you know, 1 hour of sleep a night as a teenager.

Did she know? Did she know that?

I mean— Yeah, she totally, she totally 100% went behind my back and signed everything over to John McAfee. I forgive her, and I, I don't even— I don't have much room to blame her because I just totally like separated from her. Now, you don't do that to somebody, of course, but But, uh, and trust me, I had my fallouts. I, I had my crying and, and on the ground biting the carpet, grimacing. And, you know, it was, it was a, it was hell to, to lose everything overnight. Literally, quite literally everything overnight. I went from extreme millionaire to, uh, zero. I mean, not zero, but, but pretty much not much. Not much when you have that much. I mean, but the betrayal— I said, like, I called my— I'm not gonna name her, but I said— I called her. I said, how— I'll never forget sitting there, the betrayal of that. I, I just— I couldn't imagine, like, everything we've been through for 7 years in this teams and going through what we went through, the hanging and all that. And I, I said, I, I gave you everything, and I was setting up a life for us, you know.

I All those 23-hour days, you know, were for you, you know. Um, that's how my mind is, to provide. And, and I said, why did you do it? She said, because it, it's, it's his stuff. And I'm like, what the— like, she was like, just like somebody like, uh, brainwashed her. Yeah. And that's what he, he did. He did that to people. He had that effect on people. is over after he gets a hold of you.

Wow.

So, so later on, Sean, I find out that, um, that, uh, there was a reason why she, she did that. It was, uh, the payoff for her was Bitcoin. So she got a big payoff to sign everything over to him, and I played a game and I lost at that one. Yeah, it was a hell of a ride, you know.

What happened to him?

Huh?

What happened to him?

Uh, John?

Yeah.

Uh, sorry, John McAfee goes on the run because he's already kind of on the run always anyways from himself. I'm at the ranch, I'm at back at my place, and I had a beautiful 15 acres in California, prime estate right up in LA, right next to LA. Had a beautiful property. And I'm out there by myself and, and, uh, I get a call and it's from the FBI. The 2 agents, they say they are. They say, Jimmy. And I'm out there shooting lizards off of rocks with my .22 rifle. That's all I would do all day is shoot. It's all the thing that would take my mind off. I would just shoot the .22 rifle all day for days after that McAfee You know, because, because I was in a kind of a shock of what happened to me. It was total— everything gone. My girl's gone. She won't even talk to me. Like, it's over. It's like she left with somebody. I don't know what happened.

And, uh, like, just ghosted you?

I'm talking like ghost, toast, everything. Like, took care of— just, just, just— I looked at the bank accounts and I— it would take a forensic auditor to go through that. It looked like 20 bank accounts she had opened up and money just going like this. It happened real quick, and it was all set up. It was all like her little way to get out.

Sheesh.

But, um, like I said, I don't, I don't, I don't have any ill will towards her. I, I kind of like, well played as well. I'm like, good job, you know, you know, did you do what you got to do? You know, it's, it's Easier to say that now because my life has been redeemed, but it would be very hard to that point. So, um, 2 FBI agents call me and they say, Jimmy, will you come and talk to us? And I said, who is this? And they said, this is the FBI. I said, bullshit. I said, you know, I'm the FBI too, I said to him. And I— and after my dealings with the FBI, I wasn't going to play around. And they said, no, this is really the FBI. I said, prove it. They said, well, we went to your parents' house and your sister said to never— that you told her to never under any circumstance talk to the FBI. And I said, okay, that's okay. I said, roger that. And so I said, what do you want? And they said, we want to talk to you about your time with McAfee.

And I'm like, this cannot be happening to me. Who gets struck by lightning twice? The Blackwater thing and now the FBI again. And you can imagine the shock of this. I was just like paralyzed with like, Wait, the FBI is talking to me now again, and I think that they are literally investigating me now. And so they said, will you come up and see us tomorrow? And I said, 100%, I want to work with you guys. I would love to. And they said, you will? And I said, yeah, I would love to. I said, when do you want to meet? And they said, tomorrow. Our secretary of the DOJ is going to call you. and set up a— she's gonna email you and set your tickets up. I said, okay, uh, can you get first class for me? Yeah, sure. Um, the next day I go to the airport to catch my flight and I get on a plane to Colombia, and that's the last time I'm in America for 2 years.

Wow, 2 years.

I ghosted them. Yeah, and that pissed them off. Almost 2 years. Yeah. Why did they want to talk to you about McAfee, do you think? Well, when I, when I, when I ghosted him, he was arrested almost simultaneously as me ghosting him.

Really?

So almost like me going to Washington, D.C., I felt like they were going to arrest me there. So instead I go to Colombia and they arrest him like that. They arrest him going from Spain, Barcelona, I think, to Turkey. instable. And so he's on the run, he gets caught. Now I'm on the run, and they need— but they need both of us, uh, to really, uh, to either get me to turn on him or to— or what, I don't know. They need to get both of us. We're going to stand trial together, right? Um, so he gets put in a Spanish prison, and I go on basically the run. for, for, uh, I don't know how long it was, maybe close to 2 years. But either way, I'm staying in Medellín, Colombia. We talked about that a little bit. Um, and what else is there to do in Colombia, you know, for a gringo like me, is to, uh, uh, do as much drugs as possible, uh, cocaine, and party and escape, escape, escape, escape. And it's not like I'm trying to hide from the FBI. I know that they just picked up McAfee from Turkey to Istanbul.

They could easily pick me up anywhere they want. And plus, I needed to work. I needed some cash. And so I started doing real mercenary work, not like Blackwater stuff, but kind of crazy stuff in, in, in Nicaragua, in San Salvador. to pick up money.

Like what?

So I was going through the airports. Like what?

Like what?

Like, well, when I was in Medellín, I was doing the cocaine and all this, and I said, I need to pick up cash, right? And kind of like the enforcer thing, I called my buddy and I said, dude, do you— in the teams, And I said, you know, you're only a couple calls away from a gig, you know, some type of gig, like if you want to get into it. And I said, bro, do you know anybody that is doing actual shit, like mercenary type stuff? And he goes, yeah, I know this guy who does this and this and this. I said, well, put me in contact with you. And just so happens, he go— this guy contacts me And he says, I'm going to send you to another dude. He was in the teams at the highest levels, and he's going to text you on Telegram and he's going to give you instructions. And I said, okay. And I get a message on Telegram. It says, are you down? You down? And I said, yeah, I'm down. I said, yeah, I'm down. He goes, well, keep it short. Like, don't talk much. And I said, okay, you know, okay.

He's like, he starts giving me instructions. He goes, go to, go to El Salvador. And he goes, I'll give you $10K to listen to the operation, to listen. And if you don't want to do it, you don't say another word. Take the $10K or a little less than $10K so you don't have to declare it at customs and go back home. All you have to do is come listen. for $10K. And if you decide to do it, then we'll come together with another deal. I said, deal. So I go to, uh, El Salvador first, uh, and pick up some money for him, uh, through an inner suitcase, which is really weird, uh. And then I go to— I fly to Nicaragua and listen to their, their proposition. And it's an ex-Mossad guy, and then it's, uh, Dirty from the, from the teams, from Red Squadron. I think it was from Red Squadron. Sorry, Dirty, if I mess it up. But, um, he's there, me and this Mossad guy, he claims to be. And, uh, pretty, pretty gnarly, gnarly scar on him. He looks pretty rad. Like, he looks down, you know. And so I meet him at a coffee shop and I, and I've— they said come come to Nicaragua as a Colombian— I'm sorry, come to Nicaragua as a, as a, um, a surfer or volcano watcher, right?

And so I go, okay, but I don't have a surfboard, you know. So I show up and they tell me about what they're gonna do. They said, now listen to what we're gonna do. They said, we've been tasked by the El Salvador government to kidnap the ex-president of El Salvador who is now exiled in Nicaragua, here in this country. But the problem is— and I said, no problem, easy, you know, snap, snap, snap, and we roll. And they're like, no, it's not that easy. They want him alive. And I said, they want him alive? They want us to, you know, take him alive out of the country?

I said, how?

I said, well, that's— they said, that's for us to If you decide to do this with us, we have to come up with a plan. We got an Airbnb here. We're volcano watchers, surfers. Uh, we've got some contacts here. We already did a penetration test. His bodyguards didn't do anything when one of us walked up to him, but we think that compromised the situation. And I'm like, oh man. They said, how much for this to happen? I said, I, I don't know, man. 400 G's? I don't know. you know, but you got to wire it to my mom and they're, you know, first. And they're like, we can't do that. It's got to be after it's done. And they said, but there's a promise to us from the El Salvador government that you will— that we will get to take out the MS-13 gang if we're successful at this. We'll go on the hunt for MS-13 members and just kill, kill as many as possible in El Salvador. Now, this is before the El Salvador—

Yeah.

picked up their game. This is— and this is actually right under the new El Salvador president, because he promised within his first 6 months of office that he would get that ex-president of El Salvador alive and stand trial because he had stole millions of dollars of the people's hard-earned money and spent it on himself. So we were tasked to do it by ourselves. So we had a bunch of shots of ketamine, we had a bunch of different— a bunch of different stuff that we're going to shoot him up with. We were going to grab him, shoot him up with, uh, tape him to a surfboard, swim him out to a cigar speedboat that we had got from a contact that was waiting there every night, and then, uh, link up with the, uh, El Salvador Navy. That was going to take him back into their country. And now we were flying back and forth, meeting with El Salvador government officials. We were, we were meeting with CIA guys from America here. I don't— I won't go into it too much because it's connected to people now that are, that are here now. But it was unsuccessful.

I wish I had a really sexy story to tell you. And everybody. But that's how you know it's true, when it was absolutely unsuccessful. We tried, we really tried. And I said, if you wanted him dead, then we would have been able to do it, uh, easy, easy. He, uh— but the fact that they wanted him alive and he was in some compound with Nicaraguan pit bulls I didn't even know existed— they're actually called Nicaraguan pit bulls, I guess— 2 of them. And to go in there and try to get him alive was an impossible task.

Sheesh.

And we tried.

Let's take a quick break. Airport, hotel lobby, coffee shop. You join the free Wi-Fi without thinking because everybody else does. Understand what you just did. You put your traffic on a network that you don't own, that somebody else can configured with people on it you can't see. There's a term for that— uncontrolled environment. I've worked in them. You don't go in without cover. Glacier's VPN encrypts everything leaving your phone the moment you switch it on. Your traffic, your location, sealed device to server. On their network, it's Back on yours, it's off. That's not a setting, that's discipline. I'm a co-founder of this company. I didn't put my name on somebody else's product. I helped build the one that I needed. Glacier. Download it on the App Store. And remember, privacy isn't paranoia, it's protection. Do you ever wonder what it takes to make an episode of the Sean Ryan Show? In this exclusive studio tour, I'm taking you behind the scenes for an in-depth look at every part of the operation, from the editing room in the main studio to the spaces where we film range day content and more. You'll see how the show comes together, meet some of the people behind it, and get a closer look at the work that happens off camera.

When you become a paid member of the SRS Patreon community, You get more than just the podcast. Watch new episodes early alongside other members. Join monthly live shows with guest Q&As and submit questions just like you see on the show for upcoming guests on the Protector tier. You'll also unlock exclusive range day videos, behind-the-scenes content, and premium ambience videos that you're not going to find anywhere else. Join the Patreon community today and get access to the full experience. All right, Jimmy, we're back from the break, right?

We're in South America, right?

What makes you want to go on the sailing trip here?

Well, I'm, I'm, I'm so lost at this point, uh, I, I think spiritually, mentally Physically exhausted. I went from the bottom of the barrel to the top of the palace with McAfee, and now I'm somewhere in purgatory. Maybe I started to think sometimes, like, maybe I died in Iraq. Maybe I lost my life and I'm still being worked on in the streets of Iraq. Maybe I died and I'm in purgatory because my life is so unreal, weird. And, and now I'm in Colombia by myself as an oil painter. And, um, you know, um, I, I was so lost, Sean, that it— at a— that at some point I decide, like, after like a 3 or 4 day coke binge— and I'm talking about running through lines, I mean wrecking coke by myself, well, with a bunch of girls— I would bring these girls in and just party, and then, uh, they would leave, and I would just wreck myself even further for days. And after about 4 days of this one time days and nights, I decided I'm gonna baptize myself after a 3 or 4 day coke binge. And so I baptized myself in this big jacuzzi, uh, and I came out and, you know, that's the kind of mess I was in.

Like, that's how effed up I was. Like, I was lost and I was— it was such a dark place. So I had to get out of Colombia. But the problem is, every time I would travel, Every, every time I would travel in the airport, you know, I had this horrible paranoia about me. But you know what they say about Russian spies? If you're a spy in Russia, you never break character. You don't even whistle an American tune in the shower while you're taking a shower. You never, ever break character. So I took that persona on even though I knew they could arrest me. So in customs, they're always taking me out of the customs line by myself into a private room. They take my bag. for an hour or so. I always miss my flight. And they come back and they say, okay, Jimmy, go on your way. And, you know, a normal person would be like, hey, what? I'm filming this. What the hell? I'm gonna put this on. So you're like, how dare you? Me, I'm like, okay, thanks, you know. And so I know something's not— I think, you know, they're tracking me.

Uh, and so I decide I'm gonna go to Spain and I'm gonna sell around the world. Not around the world, but around. You know, stay up, stay out at sea as long as I can for as long periods as I can and just try to lose, you know, just, I just want to be left alone and maybe something will happen with the McAfee thing and they'll just lose, forget me. So I go learn to sail. I get my level 1 through 4 certification sailing. I felt like I needed, you know, the old SEAL in me, the old soul, you know, Marine and SEAL wanted, you know, to do it the proper way still, get the documentation, get certificated. You get certified, uh, and, and learn to sail. And so I learned to sail a 42-foot Beneteau, and I'm out for about 4 or 5 days, and I'm bobbing up and down in the sea at night around Ibiza, Spain, and the coast. And I'm just like, oh my God, the sailor's life is not for me because you got to deal with your demons out here. I mean, all day you're out there, you know, and you're, you're having to live With all of this betrayal, my girl, all this crazy stuff.

And so, um, I say, I gotta get me a girl. I gotta get me a good girl or something.

I don't know.

When I get off this boat, I get off the boat and I meet— that's when Anastasia comes into my life, right after I get off this boat. I look like a piece of leather. This is the salty— I mean, I don't know how guys stay out there for so long on these cells, you know what I mean? It's like, it's not for me, brother. And so I get off and I, I find Anastasia, and she's just like a breath of fresh air. She's just like this. I always joked around. My buddy once said, hey, you need to find you a Mongolian princess, bro. And I was like, Mongolian princess? That sounds freaking awesome. So I would jokingly say I'm gonna marry a Mongolian princess. Well, you know, the Russian— the, you know, Genghis Khan made the Russians pay taxes for 400 years, you know what I mean? And so there, there's that bloodline. in the Russians. And my girl Anastasia, spelled with 2 I's, she walks up to me on our first little date and she's got— she's like, my name is Anastasia, spelled with 2 I's. She goes, I'm a direct descendant from Mongolia, Genghis Khan or something.

And I was like, I love you, girl. Let's, let's, let's have babies right now, you know? You know, let's get pregnant, girl. And so she's like, So she's, um, uh, she shows me pictures on her phone and I'm like, whoa, what is that? Is it, you know, this is before AI, you know, uh, and she's showing me these pictures of paradise, man. And I mean, this is what I've been searching for. Me on my own, I found Colombia, I found this place, Spain, but it wasn't what I want. It wasn't what I was looking for. And, and she shows me these pictures of Koh Phangan, Thailand. I don't even want to mention the name because, man, it's such an awesome paradise, man. It's, uh, but she shows me the pictures. I go, let's go there. And she doesn't, she doesn't know me from anybody. And she's like, uh, and I'm like, come on with me. I said, I'm not a serial killer, I swear. I said, I'll pay for everything. I'll pay for everything. You'll have the best. I gotta make— I got money. I, you know, this, this, this. And she's like, okay. And so she doesn't show up the next day.

And I figured that was gonna be the case. She probably saw the white powder in my nose. God only knows. She even said that I had white powder in my nose on our first date and I had to go clean it out. And I was like, oh, my bad, you know? And so I was— I was loose, man. And but she showed up on like 2 days later. She was about to go back to Moscow and she said, okay, you want to go to Koh Phangan? And I said, yes. And so, I mean, it was like a breath of fresh air. Anything was better, you know? And so I go on this journey with her to Spain. We go through every single different kind of, you know, mushroom, all the, all the different trips you could have. Well, no, not all of them, but almost all. And we were there for a while. And then all of a sudden COVID happens. I remember being with my girl laughing at people with the mask on in the airport. It's like, what the heck are people doing with these masks on? COVID? Are you freaking kidding me?

Well, you know, it happened. So I eventually— yeah, I'm doing Muay Thai training now. You know, I'm always going for the next validation piece, you know. And, uh, and so I'm doing some Muay Thai there. It keeps me from the drugs, you know, a little bit. Still doing Xanax and all kinds of stuff. I got like a pharmacy, walking around with a pharmacy with me all over the place. Uh, and, uh, I end up saying, telling Anastasia, I gotta go home and I gotta see my mom. I just need to see my mom, and then I'll meet you in Bali. Non-extradition— non-extraditionary country, which is bullshit if you're thinking about going on the run right now. You know, it's a— there's no such thing as non-extraditionary. They just do a deal with the government and get you. And so, uh, I go home to see my mom for 2 days and I get my Bali visa. I go through an agent. I'm getting this, this, this, this. And I just thank God I'm not arrested at the airport. And I'm trying to stay low. And I'm like, Mom, I need to talk to you. Let's go out to get coffee.

And so we go to get coffee, me and my mom. And I sat in front of her, Sean. And I mean, I know there's probably listeners right now that have lost a loved one or had to say bye for the last time. And know that feeling. And I, I, for me, I was telling my mom bye for the rest of my life this time, because I knew that I could never come back unless they somehow cleared this case or something. I found out good news, but it was too risky. And so I said, Mom, I gotta go for the, you know, for a long haul. I don't know when the next time I'm gonna see you. And like any good mom, she said, Well, I would rather you be out abroad and, uh, than sitting in prison for the rest of your life, you know.

Shit.

Yeah, because McAfee was under heavy charges, you know. And, uh, uh, I knew the prison life wasn't for me. I, I just— a caged animal, you know. Nah, man. And so, uh, I said, okay, Mom. I said, I appreciate you understanding me. And we walked from there to the car. And on the way to the car, Sean, I got this peace that came across me. And I thought it was a drug kicking in. I thought it was Xanax or something I took. And I know I didn't take anything because I want to be real sober with my mom. And, uh, uh, and this peace came across me and I said, Dad must be praying for me. She goes, why? I said, I don't know, Mom. I just know that everything's going to be okay. Like, I know, like, I just knew from that moment on that, like, it was going to be okay, my life. And man, right as I said that, about 3 or 4 black SUVs, not cop cars, I'm talking like black SUVs, slam up right up on me and my mom. The guy's got his finger on his trigger, shaking, and he said, Jimmy Watson!

He opened the door. Jimmy Watson! And I say, yeah. And I put my hands out and they said, get on the ground. And they— about 15 FBI plainclothes. I got video of it.

You got video of this?

Yeah, I'm gonna show you guys. Yeah, my mom took video of it, a piece of it.

Yeah. Shit.

They, you know, get me on the ground and everything. And, uh, uh, they, they, they said, we got him, we got him. They were so happy. And I said, oh, you guys are badass, rest in gazilla. And I was making fun of him and stuff, you know. And they were like, hey, shut up, you know. You know, they, they didn't, they didn't even really know what they were getting me for. I don't think they, they were just tasked to get me. They said I was an armed fugitive on the run, ex-Navy SEAL. And so I was considered horribly dangerous. It's really sad, huh? And that's why they had the Dallas SWAT team cordoned off though. They had the Dallas SWAT team there. the cordon off the whole area. They had the plainclothes guys.

Wow.

And they put me in handcuffs, Sean, and they put me in the back seat, and they were asking me questions. How many pull-ups can you do? You're in the SEALs. I said, take these handcuffs off and I'll show you. You know, I'm just like— I was trying to be humorous and joke around, but I knew my life is over. And, um, So there— so, um, uh, they haul me to the county in Dallas and then straight, no court, nothing, just straight to the big fed, the big federal prison with the Tiger King. And I'm in the same pod as the Tiger King. I didn't see him really, but I heard he was in there because right when I— right when they— I mean, they had me in shackles, man. I'm talking foot To chain, to hand shackle, the whole thing like crazy. And they put me in solitary confinement for 4 days straight, 4 or 5 days straight. And that was my— that was their F you to me for stiffing them on the first-class tickets to Washington, D.C. Yeah, I said, fuck yeah. I said, fair enough. But it was pretty brutal solitary confinement for a guy like me fighting these demons.

Oh man, brother. And now I'm just pacing the walls of rage. I'm just like, fuck, my life is done. And, and I'm like, dude, I am gonna go to prison forever. And, and this is gonna be my life. And after about 4 or 5 days, I remember, um, they said, you know, back up. And we're talking in the hole, the shoe, no light. The bright, bright, bright lights. during the day, but no outside. And, uh, and they bring me out into a little bit, and it looks like a dungeon in there. And, uh, I'm just like, damn, my life sucks. Like, how, how you get to this? You're right. And, uh, you, you, I, I get taken in this little room, and, and, and my dad has hired a lawyer, but I'm gonna pay him. You know, he said, you're paying this guy $50,000. I found the best— I tried to find the best lawyer possible, defense lawyer. And Arnold is his name. And he looks at me and he said, uh, Jimmy, if you put a 1 on a dice of 1,000 sides, he goes, that's your chances if I rolled it right now of just doing 2 and a half years.

He goes, you're going to do most likely 12 years. He goes, that's your best bet. And I, I was so mad. I said, I paid you 50 G's to tell me this? I just, I just paid you $50,000 for this? And he's like, Jimmy, you are done and it's over. Uh, I'm thinking, do I get another lawyer? I mean, but he was so cold with me, it was like, damn. He goes, I don't even think you can get a good deal with these guys. I mean, what is it? But you got to wait till McAfee gets back. So McAfee's prison in the dungeon in Barcelona, Spain. And now they got me in the feds. Now the FBI wants to keep me on lockdown like an animal. They want to keep me and then transfer me from Dallas, not Dallas, Fort Worth feds, to upstate New York or the Southern Manhattan District in New York. They want to keep me locked down. That you don't transfer me. Pretrial confinement because I'm a danger to society. There's 2 main things when you're on— when you're— when they're deciding whether or not to put you on house arrest, on pretrial confinement, is are you a danger to society?

Okay, SEAL, you know, which we're not, but, you know, we're looked at like that by them. And are you a flight risk? Well, I was a flight risk, you know. I wasn't anymore. And so they put me on— they— so I go in front of the judge, a Texas judge, and the DOJ's there to fight their case and keep me in. They want to keep me on lockdown. And I'm praying to God. My chances are slim, though, just to go on house arrest. And so now I'm just fighting to go on house arrest for this pretrial so I can stand trial with McAfee. And but it was a Texas judge and they introduced me. As a former SEAL. And he goes, wait, wait, wait, you say former SEAL? And, and they said, yes, Your Honor. He said, y'all want to do what to him? Uh, we want to transfer him to New York and keep him. This guy is a risk. This guy's no joke. He's been on the run for 2 years, sir. You know, they really fight to keep me locked down. He goes, we don't do that this south of the Mason-Dixon.

And they were like, Damn. And so he said, release him. He's going on house arrest with his mom and dad. And he goes, you're going to run, son? And I said, no, sir. He goes, you better not, or I'll fry your ass. And I said, Roger that. And so they put me on house arrest, and the FBI is mad again. They're angry. They keep losing in a way. And, uh, and so I go on house arrest And now McAfee at this time, and this is a very important part of the story that people are interested in, including myself, and don't quite understand. But John McAfee from prison in Spain, he's been there for a long time by now. And from prison he tweets Janice. You know, people go, how do you tweet from prison? Well, you have your loved one tweet what you want. Tweets from prison, Sean, that if anything happens to me whatsoever, I did not kill myself. And if something does happen to me, the 3 terabytes of information that I have are located— and he gives the exact address of the Surfside, Miami condo, period. That's 2 weeks before his death, he feels death upon him.

He feels the pressure. I've lived this in my mind, okay? Everybody sees the tweet. Everybody sees whacked on his arm. Everybody knows that if anything— he's made it very clear— I did not kill myself. And if anything happens to me, you know that it was not me. I want to live. And that if it does, The information is located at the Surfside condo, and he gives the address of this nice condominium in Miami. Okay.

Had you been there?

I've never been there. Never. 2 weeks later, on the day John McAfee, uh, loses his extradition case, meaning he's now being transferred To back to America to stand trial with me. That day, they find him dead in his prison cell, hung, hung in a prison. On the day you find out you're leaving prison, just from my short stint in solitary confinement, the day you find, you find out that you're leaving your cell. You don't kill yourself. You're very happy to move from one place to another, even if it's a short distance. He's going to get to go back to America. He loved the cameras, sensationalism. He loved the drama. I mean, this was his show. He was going to fight this tooth and nail, but he's found dead. And then the very— and then the same, uh, and then 2 hours And then 2 hours after he's found hung in his prison cell, the Miami Surfside condo collapses.

What? The whole building?

The building. The building collapses at 1:20 AM, I think 1:30 AM, maybe 2:30, but 2 hours later, maybe the building collapses. Some people go, oh, it was only partial. Building 7 to the ground, homie. Like, like, uh, collapsed. One engineer said for a building to collapse like it did is like astronomical. And he's not even talking about the mag— he doesn't even know about the maglev thing. He's just talking about structurally as an engineer for a building to— Building 7 to go down. And I'm not, I'm not one of these conspiracy guys. I'm just, I'm just telling you what happened. The building went down, crashed to the ground, and they had to explode parts of it, of course. And what makes it weirder, not to pick on the people that have already been picked on every day for the last 2 years, but the IDF is sent in to investigate the building collapse.

The IDF?

An investigation team. You can— guys, people, please, please verify this. Look it up. It's all over. The IDF Israeli investigation team is sent in to personally wall it off and handle it, and no one else is allowed to touch it.

How?

Now, I don't— I'm not trying to say— I'm just telling you the facts, but I'm not trying to say anything. I'm just— I'm just at this point, I'm just saying the facts. I'm not leading anybody into any kind of presumption of them doing it. I'm just saying because they're— because they're experts at buildings collapsing and killing a bunch of people.

Wow.

100 people are killed.

Holy shit.

And when you think about it, Sean, like, I— it took me days.

And then let me guess. We never heard anything about it ever again.

No, no, not on mainstream, nothing. He literally said 3 terabytes of like— and it was like the Epstein files are located in this address. And then he's hung, and then the building goes down 2 hours later at 1:30 in the morning. And everybody knows about the Surfside condo. Everybody thinks it's weird. They eventually came up— oh, and then after we released all this information, by the way, Sean, the FBI, uh, the government come— came out with some crazy explanation of why it got so much heat. They had to come together with some crazy— the pool was leaking.

The pool was leaking?

Yeah, there was a pool leak. You can— buildings do not— and we're talking like a— like this thing came crashing down, killed, uh, unfortunately 100 people, I think.

So what do you think?

I don't know. I don't know if it was McAfee's last FU trick. Master chess player. Uh, I think the chances of him offing himself or being Epstein or whatever you want to call it are freaking slim. I guess anything's possible. In this life, I've learned that anything is possible. But I presume that maybe he was killed, and then they, they, they, they were like, it's better if McAfee doesn't come home, so rush that in, rush it. It's not, it's not hard to greenlight somebody in prison. Everybody knows that by now. That's, that's nothing to do. So that's not That's easy. That's an easy one. So that's very possible for him to be killed by somebody else.

Why do you think they would level the building? Why wouldn't they just break in the condo and take the damn hard drive?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. What he didn't name the actual condo door, he just said in that building. Also, after I released the story on my social media, I did a story, a little story on it. They, they, uh, A guy contacted me and he said he was the owner of a demo company, and the government called him as the owner and said, would he do the job of the debris? And he said, yeah, I'll have all my trucks come to it. They said, no, no, no, we just want one truck and you have to drive. That's what he told me. He says, and you just do exactly like we tell you. And he agreed to for a bunch of money, and he would drive in. And anybody that knows about the Surfside condo knows it's weird. I mean, they had this thing walled off. I mean, it was crazy. They had it guarded on lockdown. You couldn't come in, you couldn't go out. He said he would take his one truck with blacked-out windows with a black tarp in the bed, pull in one truck, just a little bit of debris would go in his truck, and then he would have to give him his phone and then get back, and then he would be escorted.

Across Florida into another gated compound with guards. I know this sounds crazy. Take his phone, black out the windows, take the stuff off the— out the back of his truck and sift through it. And the IDF is doing this for the most part in the Surfside area. Why? I don't know. Wow.

What do you think he had on everybody?

So, so McAfee had a no-bluff policy, so he never— he wouldn't lie to you. Um, now he would play games and deception and stuff, but that was different. Um, when he told me that it was disgusting vile, horrible shit on those people that he named in the high government, in the DOJ. I, I assume that's exactly what he meant. And lo and behold, there's been people that said that he was disgusting and vile and horrible back to you. But I always have said, the enemy always accuses you Of the exact opposite of who you are. So I'm the killer of innocent people, monster. I was literally in Iraq, Afghanistan to do a real job and save people. I really wanted to. Now I ended up doing horrible things in the process and not even meaning to. Uh, you're a liar, a cheat, A stealer? Well, Machiavelli said never play fair in a game where everybody cheats, so you could call me that. But the crypto game, there was no old ladies with 2 or 3 computers looking like your studio here, you know, doing trades and getting robbed. These were highly proficient crypto players back in the day.

You had to be on your A-game. Programming nerds doing this stuff, trading crypto. Lightning speed. And so everybody playing the game was in the game to pump and dump stuff that now, by the way, is considered perfectly okay to do.

How did it go? I mean, so what, what's the rest of your house arrest like?

Okay, so, so trials or anything like that? Yeah, yeah. So, so, um, Then this— I know this sounds crazy, but the same night that John McAfee dies, I wake up the next day, right? My— I wake up, my phone says McAfee has, uh— I'm sorry, that night, okay? I couldn't sleep all night. The McAfee— the night that McAfee dies, I— my mom told me, Sean, that no matter what, no matter how horrible it got, if you— I was dying in Iraq or Afghanistan, to cry out to Jesus, to cry out to God. I'll never forget her saying that. She always would get me and say, Jimmy, remember, before I would leave, she goes, just say Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, like 3 times, like loud. And man, I might as well be dying. I might as well be dead. I might as well be in Afghanistan, Iraq, dead. So I, at 3 in the morning, on house arrest, I yelled out, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, help me. I said, I'm not looking to get out of prison because I deserve it in some way or another, even if I did it or not. It doesn't matter. I deserve it.

You know, whatever's coming, I deserve it. So I'm not asking to get out of prison. I'm asking for a real relationship with you. I just— I wanted something. Tangibles, to feel something. I didn't care about prison, nothing. All I cared about was a real longing for something to happen. And the next day I wake up and I said, I'll do anything. Just please show up in my life. And the next day I get a text from my lawyer. That says McAfee's hung in prison, was found hung. And I can't even process it. I'm like, what? No, no, no, no. And then, and then a call, a stranger calls me right after. And I just answer. And he goes, Jimmy. And I said, yeah. He said, you want to go? You want to go to this place called Operation Restore Warrior? This, this, this retreat? And I said, no, man. I said, yeah, I would love to. I'm about to go to prison for 15 years, though. I appreciate it, man. Thank you. I went to hang up. He said, no, no, wait, wait, wait. He goes, we won't judge you. I said, no, you don't understand.

A real judge is going to sentence me to prison. He goes, well, ask the judge if you could go to this retreat, a 3-day retreat. I don't know this guy. I don't know how he got my number or anything. He just says this. And I said, I said, okay, okay. Because I remember me crying out that night. I said, okay. And so I asked my lawyer and he goes, nah, Jimmy. I said, listen up. I said, listen to Arnold. You got $50,000 of my money. You, you're gonna do something for me. Come on now. I said, don't you— you know this ain't going to trial. I'm gonna have to plea out and I'm gonna get like 12 years. I said, just do this one thing for me. Ask the judge if I could go to this 3-day retreat. He goes, okay, but he's gonna say no. I said, just please ask him, damn. He calls me back in an hour or two. It was real fast. He said, Jimmy, I don't know how else to tell you this, but that Texas judge said yeah, you can go. Just don't go— don't run anywhere. I already had R2-D2 ankle braces.

Everybody knows me from 3 years ago if they saw me with a— run around my mom's house. Yeah, my mom's house. I was running around with my Ranger panties on and R2-D2, man. And, uh, the probation officer was like, you know, you can't get this wet. I was like, good, SEALs hate the water, you know, like, no problem, bro. And, uh, so I get to go to this place and, um, I come in the, the, the, the room and my, my hair kind of stands up a little bit. I'm like, man, I feel awkward in here. Kind of weird, like weird, like, like, but good. Strange and not normal. And I set it down at this table and there's these people at this place called Operation Restore Warrior. They had this cabin in Baltimore, out of all places, overlooking a duck pond, like something you'd see Patriot Outdoors or something in this wood cabin. And I sit down and the owner happens to be there of this place. And he looked at me and he said, Jimmy, are you ready to meet Jesus here? And he's going to tell you everything about your life and show you direction.

And are you ready to meet him? And I busted out laughing at him because he said for 100%, there was 100% chance he was going to change my life forever here. And I laughed at him, Sean. I bust out laughing. I said, Bro, I said, you— I said, you guys have to be careful who you tell that to because you don't know who you're talking to. I said, what if that guy is going to prison for the rest of his life? You give him false hope like that. Don't tell people that shit. I, I scorned him. I mocked him. I said, geez, gonna show up at this place. And he goes, Jimmy— he never changed. He said, Jimmy, do you believe that Jesus died and went to died and rose again on the 3rd day, in 3 days? And I looked at him, I said, I think so. I think so. He says, then anything's possible. So I went outside. I kind of, I kind of laughed at him, and I went outside, and I just put down my guard again, and I went back into that God crying out like my mom told me to.

And I said, I said, Jesus, If you're real, I'm—I think you are. But if you're real, real, all I'm asking for—I'm not asking to get out of prison. I know I'm going, and I know I've done a bunch of terrible shit. And I know I'm—I know I'm guilty as charged on all accounts for either responsible for guys going to prison for life. Or the death of many people in war. And so I said, take your best shot, go ahead, but I just want to feel you one time. And nothing happened. But the next day, the next day, they call me in.

Oh, no.

The next— the very next day, they said, today's the day where you're gonna meet Jesus and he's gonna tell you things. And they— I said, I'm sorry, can I get a tissue?

Yeah, Bob.

Okay.

And, uh, so the next day They call. There's only 3 or 4 of us at this thing. It's real small. I don't understand it. I don't even know where I am. Baltimore, at this duck reserve. But I didn't know Baltimore even had duck reserves. And, uh, I— there's a room and they tell us to wait. And I'm always last in my life. My last name is Watson, W. So I'm always last. I'm always, you know, like the last guy in military, everything. So I'm used to waiting. So here I am, I'm the last person to go into this room. But a guy will go into this room, he'll stay there for like an hour or 2, and then leave in shambles like a truck freight train hit him. Like, like a snot coming down to the ground, you know, just like, like barely able to walk out. And I'm like, oh, hell no, I ain't down with this. I said, I swear on my life, I, I will walk out of there like a— I'll walk in as a man, I'm walking out as a man. There's nothing you can tell me this life that I haven't experienced, that I I haven't seen, that I haven't done.

And there's no way you could say something to me to get me emotional and cry like this. Nothing. There's no, no chance. And so I prepared for it, embraced for any kind of weird shit they were gonna do. But the second guy goes in, the last guy goes in, and they all come out in shambles. Red snot coming out. And I'm like, I'm like, pussy. Like, that's kind of what I was thinking. Like, pussy, you know. Sorry for language. And I go in and these 2 guys are sitting there. They kind of remind me of cops, you know, because they just got in there clean-cut and they got their little notepad. And I'm like, I ain't saying shit to these guys, you know what I mean? This can be a setup, you know, whatever. And so I'm real paranoid. And, uh, they say, uh, this guy named Daniel goes, okay, Jimmy, uh, can you tell us about yours? And, and by the way, I'm broken too. My left shoulder's like destroyed. My— I feel like something's in my, my body, like, like, like, like I'm just all messed up too, you know, on top of everything else.

And I'm thinking, Jesus, how can you meet me here and even do something while I'm in so much pain as well? Like, my body's in pain, my mind's in pain, I'm tormented. So I sit down in front of them and they said, Jimmy, will you tell us your story, please? And I said, you don't want to hear the whole thing, man. I promise you. They said, well, just tell us, like, go through it and we're going to write some things down. This is what we do here. And by the way, we don't know your last name. They don't know my last name. The recruiter knows your last name that brought you in, but they purposely don't know your last name. They just know me as Jimmy. They don't know my story. They see the big ankle bracelet on, and I told them a little bit. And, uh, so I'm— I start going through my story. nonchalantly. It's kind of boring, and I just want to get through it. And I'm thinking, the hell is this? Like, who cares? Boring. And all of a sudden, uh, Daniel says, Jimmy, uh, you skipped over a part of your story.

And I said, no, I didn't. Like, as cool as ice. As cool as ice. Like I'm playing a game. I said, no, I didn't. He goes, yeah, you did. And I said, No. I said, let's move on. He goes, well, he goes, you, you skipped the story of, uh, the love boat, the Love Shack. It's called the Love Shack, right? And I, I stopped and I, I said, well, I guess this interview is over. And they said, no, why, why, why? I said, well, I said, I don't know what kind of game you're playing here. I don't know. I don't know how you know about McAfee's mansion. We called it the— we called it the nickname. He said the nickname of it, the Love Shack. It was the Love Boat series. We called it the Love Shack. And he said, was that at the Love Shack? When he said, was that that? I thought, hell no, I'm out. Because people, they, they think they want a psych— a psychic and stuff. And but when somebody actually says something real, that's like that, that hits, triggers you. I said, what the hell? And I said, how do you know about the Love Shack?

And he goes, this is what we do here, Jimmy. Sit down. And I said, hell no. I said, I'll stand. I said— he goes, will you tell us more of your story? I said, no, hell— I said, no, hell no. I said, if, if you know so much about me, I said, finish it out. If you're so bold, if you're so freaking— if you, if you, if you, if there's a real God here, Jesus, then finish the story. Don't just say Love Shack. Big deal. You can look, you can find that out somehow through somebody. And they looked at each other. They said, oh, but Jordan nodded to Daniel. And Daniel goes, okay. He goes, well, he goes, you, you walk up to the Love Shack. You call it the Love Shack, the Love Boat. You walk up to it and there's a screen door and you open it. And when you walk in, there's a bathtub on the right, a big hot tub. And then there's 3 steps up. And I actually threw a guy off that 3 steps before. There was 3 steps up and then a cherry wooden door. And you walk in and I go, so I'm like, okay.

And it was so accurate though. It was like he was reading the blueprints of this love house. And I said, okay. And I'm like, kind of, I shake myself. I'm like, okay, okay, go ahead. I said, and tell me more. He goes, well, there's an elevator on the right side covered by a cherry door, a secret elevator that goes up and down. I mean, who, who, how would you know this, right? And I go, and? He said, there's an armory where you used to keep weapons in a gray metal door, and it's covered by a cherry door. And I said, so, and? And he goes, well, you go up the stairs on the second level of the house And I'm like, okay, that's pretty damn— that's okay. And he says, and every room is named with a— he goes, he's like grabbing like this. He goes, a lat and long, agreed coordinates. I said, a lat and long. A lat and long. Every room had a lat and long on it. It was Tahiti, Thailand, it was different names above the rooms. It's a beautiful home. My room was amazing. I said, okay. He says, and then you go up another flight of stairs to the 3rd deck.

And I said, yeah. I said, I just nodded. He says, and there's a big—

Shit.

And I finished, I go, shit, there you are. He said, yeah. And I go, I said, that's not good enough, man. I said, you're gonna have to tell me more. I said, tell me more if you know so much about my life. I said, tell me more. And, and he just is describing this house that I was in, the Love Shack, with, with John McAfee, to the T, exactly every single detail, like he's watching it on a TV, not even looking at me, kind of looking past me. And he says, uh, uh, there's boats that come up to the house in a canal, in a waterway, boats that come up and down. And I said, I said— And now, now, Sean, I'm shaking I'm so— I'm furious, man, because if somebody really tells you about a time in your life that not really many other people know about, that's something. It's not your birthday, it's not your Social Security number, it's something real. It's, uh, it's something that nobody else knows about. And so I yelled at him. I said, if you know so much about me, I said, tell me More! Tell me everything!

And he goes, okay. He said, um, there's, uh, your office looked over a sound, a beautiful sound. And he even called it a sound. And that's what it was, a sound. And I yelled one more time, and the last time I said— and I'm spit mad. They said they were terrified. I would stand up and I said, if you know so much about me, I said, tell me everything. Tell me about my life. He said, okay. He said, there was a path that you used to walk down by yourself at night that only you know about. And I just fell back. Just—

Wow.

Because he told me about a path that I would cry out to God on. I would cry out to Jesus on.

Are you serious?

I'm dead serious. And I fell back and I walked out of that room just like those other 3 guys. And people ask me, how is this possible? And I say, just like the blind man that was healed by Jesus, they asked him, who did this to you? They were mad. Who healed you? Who made you see? The Pharisees. He says, I don't know, but I was blind and now I see. And now I see. So I don't care what anybody says, man. That's what happened. And so a lot of people have a reason not to believe, maybe. But I have no reason, because what it showed me was that you can run from yourself your whole life, you can run from the law for a couple years, but you cannot run from God, because he's in every dark corner and he's with you no matter what, man. In all your shame and guilt, he's with you. So no matter what happens in this life, no matter how much you lose, no matter who betrays No matter how guilty or shameful things that you've done, how deep and horrible your sin is, if you crack your heart open this much and you believe he's with you, and that perspective change makes you a powerhouse, a warrior that's unstoppable.

And, uh, and after this, uh, meeting, uh, Daniel said, after this experience, I'm just crushed. I'm laying there. And I, I even thought about not saying this part because I was afraid people may not believe the whole story if I say this, but I'm gonna say it. Uh, Jordan now switches from Daniel to Jordan. He says, and, uh, he goes, Jimmy, you have a You have a kind of like a sword sticking out of your shoulder, something sticking out. Like he could see into the demonic world that I had been wounded or something through my own sin or open doors. And that— and I'm not saying all pain comes from sin, but I'm just telling you that I was— it's like he pulled the sword out.

Way in.

Yeah. And he touched my shoulder and said, can I touch you? And remove it? And I said, yes. What option do I have? I just was like, I just, I was like this. And he touched my shoulder and prayed and it went away. That pain went away. And then Daniel said, one last thing, Jimmy, before you leave. And I don't know if I could even take anymore. I don't even know if I could take more. It was such a hit. I'm just there. He goes, one last thing, Jimmy. He said, I see a chessboard in the sky. He said, I see pieces being moved around. You've been like a pawn your whole life. God has been moving you. And this is for people that are listening right now. People, you, you— God will move you and position you like a chess game. The enemy will think that he's got you, he's destroyed you forever. And then he said, and all I hear is checkmate, Jimmy. I said, well, what does checkmate mean? He says, I don't know, but I think it means that your case will be dismissed. I said, that's not possible. That is not possible.

All this, it may be possible, but that's not— he said checkmate. When I got home, Sean, my lawyer called me, and the first thing he said to me was, Jimmy. I said, yes, Arnold. It was never good news with him. He said, checkmate. And I said, what did you say? I said, what did you say? He goes, Jimmy, don't you mean what— don't you know what checkmate means? He goes, ah, forget that. Forget what I said. He goes, it means your case is going to get dismissed. He said, Jimmy, I've never seen this in my whole time as a DOJ prosecutor turned major defense lawyer. in Texas. He goes, I've never seen it once. And I said, this is what Jesus told me. He thought I went crazy. He was like, Jimmy, Jimmy, say this. He goes— but he did say, he goes, say a prayer for me, Jimmy, if that be true. I said, okay. And it's not like it was easygoing after that. It's like I dropped off 2 sea bags of bricks hardcore, and I stood up a new man. I've never seen an airport so clean and nice as Baltimore Airport.

And that place ain't nice, you know. But I was just— a new perspective. It wasn't like a— it wasn't like Jesus literally like came to touch me. It was like a new— it was a perspective shift, a real no-joke perspective change. Like, if you know 100% that God is with you, it's life-altering change. I was like an eagle flying over the Grand Canyon, Sean. And so it took months for my case to finally dissolve out. It was dismissed. But it just— the paperwork of the DOJ is long. So I spent almost 2 years on house arrest, but it was the best time of my life. And I was restored. Everything was restored to me. Money, not, not like I was, but, you know, okay, I'm okay. And my girl, we finally got to meet up and And we stuck together. We have a beautiful little 2-year-old son, Jacob, and a beautiful life in Florida, South Florida, South Beach. And my life has been totally redeemed and restored. And I had 1 in 1,000 chance.

Wow, dude.

Yeah. Yeah. And the FBI just were like, Leave them below. The head prosecutor's name was Sampson. I'll never forget. He wanted to destroy me. He told my lawyer to tell me that he had never lost a case in his life. And the DOJ, they were like this, the, the top of the seals of the DOJ, knocked out. And my lawyer was like, it's true. There's no fighting these guys. They are so bad and thorough. And, uh, he went from saying he wanted to destroy my life and steamroll me He could care less about me. He literally told me that, to writing the most beautiful letter of release. And I don't know why. It's like an angel visited him in the night or something. And Arnold— I said, Arnold, how is that possible that Samson wrote this? He goes, Jimmy, I don't know, man. He goes, I don't get it. It's weird. He had a big shift of favor towards you. And I wrote him an email. You're not supposed to do that, but I said, thank you, Samson, for sparing my life. And he said, no problem. He said, I wish you real well, Jimmy.

Yeah. How long ago was that? Yeah, that was 2022, '23. I think that was a good 4 years. That's a solid 4 years ago now. And it's not like— it's not like I never want to come across like things are all great all the time, you know. We deal with all kinds of pain and pressures and things in the world, and temptations come back around and all kinds of things. But I'll tell you, I have, no matter what happens to me, heaven or hell, here stands a man, here sits a man who, here sits a man who has no excuse. I have no choice. Others may have a choice to believe or not, but I have been left with no other reason but to believe because, and it is very biblical, because just so happens that Nathaniel, Is one of the disciples of Jesus. And as Nathanael was coming up to Jesus for the first time, Nathanael says to his buddy, there's— this is not the real Jesus, not the real Messiah. And as he's coming up, he goes, can anything good come from Nazareth? And he's mocking Jesus. But as he's walking up, Jesus goes, hey, Nathanael, here comes a man of— with no gall.

There's no deception in him. And Nathanael says, how do you know me? That's kind of arrogant, you know. He says, how do you know me? And Jesus says, because I saw you under the fig tree before you came. And he saw me on that path where nobody else knew about. And I will cry out to God on it. Amen.

Yeah, man, that is some powerful stuff.

Total redemption, death to rebirth. And that's the message, the lighthouse, you know. And there's so many guys and girls right now that are, that are lost because they don't understand this message. How could it be true? And I just pray that somebody doesn't have to go through what I did to get to that point of reconciliation. It's the true message of grace and hope and freedom. I'm speechless. Have you—

have you ever tried to contact those 2 guys again?

Daniel, brother, I haven't spoken to Daniel in a long time, and he texted me yesterday as I was covering the show. Are you serious? He said, Jimmy, you want to help us out with maybe some, some fundraising for ORW? You know, I was like, dude, 100%, bro, I'll help you with whatever I can. That would, it would crazy. I didn't know organizations like this existed and things. But I have, you know, Daniel, he's got a gift, obviously. Jordan didn't have this. Jordan's real gifted too, very powerful guy. But Daniel had this gift of seeing. And I was real curious about it. I said, Daniel has What did you see? Like, what do you— what's going on? And he goes, bro, I don't know. He goes, uh, he goes, I just do what the Holy Spirit tells me. And, uh, he said, but, uh, he goes, but your case is weird. He goes, I've only had that specifically, that clear of a vision, twice. Being— I was, uh, there was a country music star that many people know, but he kept that secret, of course. He said that, that what he saw was really, really terrible stuff that they did in the country music business, and sacrifices and stuff.

And that country music star was arrogant, but when he told him about what he had done in a hotel room as far as witchcraft and stuff they do at the high levels of Hollywood, he was left with no other Uh, way out, but like me, but to believe.

I gotta look these guys up.

ORW, they've helped. It's a small— sounds like a small unit, but they pray. I didn't know this, but they cared so much about me. As an individual, they fast and they pray for each person per class. I'm probably not supposed to say that, but for a couple, for sometimes a week or two before they come.

Have you ever done that? Fasted?

I did. I fasted for maybe 21 days one time.

You did a 21-day fast?

I did a 21-day fast. Um, and, uh, uh, everybody was like, are you gonna eat? They were scared, like, it's dangerous, Jimmy, what are you doing? I said, God, God will tell me when to eat. And around 20 days, I started getting comfortable with it, and I walked in this hotel and The guy looks at me and he goes, you look like a man of God. Here's our free buffet. It's $40. You should take it. And I said, brother, that's, that's for me right there. And I ate and ate and ate. But weird stuff like that. Yeah. But I tell you, coming here hasn't been easy, Sean. There's been a lot of very difficult Strange things that have happened to me lately, and things don't happen to me like that. I feel very secure, very at peace with my security, like safety. You know, I'm not an anxious person. I have a really healthy lifestyle, sober, healthy, nice. But the last two nights. Before coming here on this show, it's been just hell. Weird, weird, weird stuff. And I'm like praying and stuff in my room, and I'm like laughing about it because I know it doesn't have any power over me.

Like, I know that it's not a 50/50, it's not a 49/51 battle. It's a, it's a, it's a done deal. When he said it's finished on the cross, it's finished. But the demons, they're like hyenas, you know? And some weird things have happened to me about hotel room and stuff. Just weird stuff.

What's happening?

Well, one night—

I'm going through this stuff right now.

Huh?

I'm going through this stuff right now.

You're going through it right now?

Yeah.

Can you share it?

I've shared a little bit of it. I'm gonna wait till It dies down before I do a whole thing on it, but I want a clear mind before I do it.

Right.

But it's been supernatural shit.

That's been happening around you or to you, you think?

Both.

Damn. Is it scary?

Yes or no? I know what it is. Makes it all more real. I mean, it's, uh, it makes it all— it just strengthens you, right?

You know what I mean? Right, right.

It's almost like I don't even need a reminder anymore, but it's like Stuff starts happening and it's like, oh, it's almost like a—

no matter how scary it could be, it's like a, uh, a bump in faith, right? It kind of, it kind of lets you know that you're on to something, right? Like, you kind of like— it's, it's like an indicator that you're on the right path. It's like my parents used to say, the devil always overplays his hand. He always gives too much because he can't control people and they'll do too much or do this. And so you can kind of understand you're on the right path when bad things are happening, right?

I've had picture frames fly off the wall at me. I've had Severe allergic reactions to communion, like immediately after I take it, like immediately, seconds. Yeah, all kinds of stuff.

That's that's crazy, man. Because the last two nights. My, my, in my condo in Miami, it was like somebody came over with the cymbals and crashed them in my face. And I woke up and that— I don't, I don't ever have bad dreams anymore, that kind of stuff. But that was like somebody was standing there as I was looking into the dark. And I was like, go away. And I prayed. Like, it didn't affect me. And then it happened again. Like, he timed it till right when I was about to sleep. And it happened to be in the hotel room last night. The stand just launched across the room into what? The nightstand literally goes boom, boom, boom and fell on the ground. Like, it's not possible, man. Yeah, it's somebody literally like a freaking linebacker in my room hit it and I tried to ignore it, but it shook me up.

I mean, that kind of stuff. I mean, it just I don't like it, you know. Scares the hell out of me in the moment.

Of course.

Especially when it's in the middle of the night. But, uh, but, but when it settles down, I'm, I'm actually, uh, Thankful that it happened. Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Because if that shit's real, then the other's real.

Well, yeah, I think one of the things that a lot of people are right now, they're confused at our economy and at our lives and what's going on with politics But, but it makes it a lot easier when you put it in 2 baskets, good and evil. For me, it's like God is not the author of chaos and confusion. So I know, okay, that's not a good thing happening. It's a dark, evil thing. But I also know whom the Son sets free is free indeed. And I have to repeat that to myself a lot.

You know, at the beginning of this, we were talking about success and what it is. And yeah, you'd mentioned being a billionaire, and you ran around with a billionaire for I don't know how many years, and then completely, totally miserable.

Miserable.

I don't— I've been around a lot of them now, you know, from this, right? I'm gonna be honest, not very many of them seem like happy people.

No, it's very rare, isn't it? Like, what is your perception? Do you think— do you ever meet that, some that seem like they have it together out of all the people you've interviewed?

Maybe, maybe some of them. But I think it's also living in a cage. I think real success is just being free, man.

Free. I've never felt—

Giving.

Right.

It's giving. Give, give, give, give, give, give, give. Just give.

Right.

Like, that's, that's what makes me feel the best. Every time I do it, I feel great. Every time. Every time.

That's awesome.

We've had all kinds of success here. We've hit number 1 several times. We're a top 5 podcast. We've got billions of views. We're at number 1 on YouTube all the time. None of that shit really matters to me. What matters is that the success enables me to make somebody's day and pull them out of a dark spot. Or you just give them something in their life that they're lacking, that's a necessity or that makes it better for their family or worse. Things like that, man, far outweigh the materialistic bullshit.

You've helped a lot of people, to include myself, to come on here What— and it, it's kind of lonely though too, isn't it? Because the, the, the kickback, the return— I know we're not supposed to expect a return. That's why. But, but I think that's why— that's what messed McAfee up, is not being able to process that people are not as nice as you, not as loyal as you, not as giving as you, and not as thankful. Is you— I've dealt with a lot of hurt in my life.

Yeah, I used to deal with that. I still do a little bit, but you just, uh, you, you— what I'm learning, I haven't learned it all the way yet, but once you do the deed, you have to look away, right?

You know what I mean?

Because of 4 years, decades I've always struggled with resentment, and I've always said I've gone to therapy about it. I've had all kinds of talks and priests and ministers and pastors and therapists, and it always, you know, like you can't expect anything in return. You can't have expectations. And I've always said, like, I don't have an expectation. There's no expectation in my head. But I guess there was.

Right, because you still— yeah.

And, and, and so I think the key is when you do give, when it, you know, you, you have to look away after you give. At least I do. I have to look away after I give. Otherwise, It'll set in.

Yeah, if I find myself seeking validation from person, place, or thing, especially like my, my girl, like if I find myself getting hurt in any way about anything, I know that I'm seeking validation from something else other than the Father, the only one who can validate, the real Father in heaven. And, uh, so I'm always having to align myself back with why did I get hurt? Oh, because I was, I was wanting her to do something for me, which she doesn't even know how. They've proven women can't even validate a man. They don't even know how because men won't respect— women don't even know what respect is. They don't even know what respect means. My girl literally is like, what does it mean? Not because she's Russian. But literally, like, what is— what is this? She's trying to make me explain respect, trying to explain respect, and it sounds idiotic. It sounds ridiculous. It means that you have to treat me like a— you know what I mean? You're like, you don't get a gig, you know, like, what the hell?

So, you know, what do you think your new purpose is?

Man, I'm gonna fulfill this mission till the day I die. I'm gonna do my best, Sean. I'm not— I can't— you know, I used to make big promises and, uh, and underdeliver. But that, the, you know, I, I heard God very, very loud, clearly, right after that encounter with Jesus. And I said, what would you have me do now? And he says, you will be a lighthouse unto my people. And, uh, and I said, oh my God. I said, what do lighthouses do? And he said— I remember he says, you know all about lighthouses. And my response, Sean, was, lighthouses aren't for sale. Because back if he had tasked me to buy a lighthouse for him, And I searched to and fro this world, and unless you're Elon Musk or yourself, perhaps with major connections and things, you cannot purchase a real lighthouse, a real one, because they're on federal property. They're taken care of. And I think the problem with a lot of Christians today, or whoever out there, is they don't like things to be for sale. They don't, you know, freely I give, freely I receive, you know, like you can't sell God's word.

And so, you know, I like to consider myself a lighthouse. I peddle into that. I'm not peddling the lighthouse mission. I have to work in other areas, you know, my peptide business, whatever. But I, I I think to be a lighthouse, to light other people's torches at such a time as this, to motivate men and women with that— I don't know, the spirit of— the same spirit that was in, you know, David, the same spirit that was in King Jehu, all these I think, I think it's lacking. I think people forget the power that they, that they can behold as an individual with, with literal faith as a mustard seed, just a little tiny bit, and we can move mountains, man. And if we could all grasp this, it's— we would be a force to be reckoned with, man.

Well, if you can't buy one, Then you got to build it.

You got to build it. That's right. So I'm all about wisdom, counsel, and moving in whatever way God wants me to move now.

We're off to a hell of a start, man.

Thanks, Sean. I appreciate you, man, for having me on.

You know, that was some powerful, powerful stuff. Yeah, actually, at the end here.

Thank you. By the word of their testimony and by the blood of the Lamb, they broke through all evil. And that's what Revelation— I think it's 8— says, that literally by the word of our testimony And by acknowledging who did it, Jesus, you know, chains of darkness can be broken up. I mean, I already feel amazing right now just talking about afterwards. It's been a long day here, but you know, something about it is freeing, you know.

Yeah, man, because you just gave, gave that.

Yeah, that's right. That's spot on, man.

You want to end with a prayer?

Yeah, it's a great idea actually. I was hoping you're gonna do that.

You want to lead it?

Go ahead. You want to go?

How about you do it? Okay.

All right, all right. Uh, dear Heavenly Father, I just thank you for bringing myself and Sean Ryan's team together and his entire audience and everybody that's listening right now. Father God, I pray right now that you would show up in everybody's life in a special way that heard this message today, and that no matter what they've been through in their life, no matter what loss or betrayal or thing that is bad that they thought that happened to them, I thank you that you literally work all things together for the good for those who love you. And all we have to do today is crack our heart open just a tiny bit and receive the power and spirit of the Lion of Judah so that we can walk out of here on a warrior's path in a warrior's way today. And I thank you for healing to course through the veins of every person that's lost right now out there that's listening to this. In Jesus' mighty name.

I got one more thing.

Yes, sir.

I just ask that you help Jimmy build his lighthouse. Amen.

Amen. In Jesus' name.

Jimmy?

Yes, sir?

It was an honor, brother.

Brother, it was, uh—

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