Transcript of #347 Pierogi - Shawn Ryan and Scammer Payback Troll Scammers LIVE

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Pierogi, welcome to the show, man.

Thank you.

Thanks for being here.

So excited to be here, man.

I'm pumped. Yeah. So our mutual friend, really good friend of mine, and I think good friend of yours, Ryan Montgomery, put you on my radar like a year or two ago. And, um, yeah, it took a minute, but I'm like, I'm, I'm pumped that you're here.

We're so happy. Um, it's cool when you have like a mutual friend and brings 2 people together. And, um, I respect Ryan so much, and I respect the work that you do as well.

Thank you.

And your service to this amazing country. And we were just even talking about that beforehand, and I'm like, oh my gosh, just the stories. the— what you've done to, you know, serve this country, I'm very grateful and thankful for. So a lot of respect.

Thank you.

Yeah.

And, and, uh, yeah, I love what you do.

Thanks, man.

And so, you know, like, so for anybody that doesn't know, you take care of scammers.

Yeah.

And, uh, interestingly enough, my chief of staff here just, uh, got scammed.

Oh my gosh.

And, uh, drained her life savings. And yeah, and even on the caller ID, the bank was USAA. It's even on the caller ID, said USAA. And they called her husband and whatever, ran him through a gauntlet. And yeah, you know what I mean?

And how recent? Like a few days recent or like—

Like a month ago. Wow.

We can maybe investigate that if you want. Like, I'll see you.

Right on. Well, I think, yeah, I'll, I'll, uh, I'll have you talk to her. But, but, um, yeah, it was USA—

they—

how did they do that? How did they get USAA to pop up on the caller ID?

Like, these guys are pretty good. Like, they can spoof, just like we can even spoof numbers. Um, you can spoof the number, and some of the times they'll actually have the victim Like they'll say, like, take your debit card and then the number on the back, like punch it in. But they're still on the phone with the scammer and the scammer will like mute the line and then say, oh, this is Brian with USAA. And then the person thinks they're talking to USAA, but it's literally like another scammer sitting next to them. But then they do spoofing of phone numbers as well. Like—

What do you mean spoof?

Yeah. So they, they're Essentially, they can make it look like even the FBI calling. They can spoof the number. So like if the number is whatever, 888-225-2255, they can make it look like any number that they want to, or they can make the caller ID. And it's all within the software that they're using too. You can spoof the caller ID and make it look like anyone. So if I was calling as someone's grandma, I can make it look like it's that person. I'm, when I'm calling to try to scam them.

You can make it show up as the exact same number?

Yeah.

How is that possible?

With technology, anything's possible. So yeah, dude. Yeah, it's scary. But like, that's why one of the things when we tell, like, if you're— it's called the grandma scam. That's one of them. Uh, someone's calling like your grandma pretending to be you. That happened to my grandma as well, where someone was pretending to be me. The number one thing we say is to hang up the phone and then call that actual person back, if that makes sense. So they're spoofing, but they're not actually calling from that number. They're making it look like that.

How? How do they do it?

It's with the software that they use. There's specific software, and we can even do it as well when we're messing with scammers. You can buy phone numbers for super cheap. Like we have hundreds of phone numbers we can buy, and these scammers are constantly buying numbers and then they're using the phone software to Again, if you have a victim, you can change the caller ID really easily. It's all software-based.

Shit.

Yeah, it's very scary actually, as I'm talking about it.

Damn, man. I mean, I worried about it all the time, especially, especially for my parents.

Yeah.

You know, they're getting older and I mean, they're not used to this shit, you know? And I know these guys are slick.

They're so trusting, like the elderly, the the boomers, I guess, like, they're so trusting that you have to remember, like, where they came from, where you could have your front door unlocked and the milkman and all that kind of stuff, right?

Mm-hmm.

And now it's like they trust everything that is being told to them. Like, there's a charge on your bank account and you need to fix it right now by taking your money out and sending it to a virtual wallet. And these people believe it. It's very sad.

Geez. Well, let me give you an introduction here.

Yeah.

Pierogi, after leaving your career in cybersecurity, you began live streaming scam calls on YouTube and went on to build Scammer Payback into the largest scam baiting platform online. Through Scammer Payback, you infiltrate scam networks, expose how they operate, disrupt their operations, and help victims of fraud. So far this year alone, your team has helped stop more than $200 million in scams— excuse me, $20 million in scams. Today, you're focused on fighting increasingly sophisticated global scam industry while teaching people how to recognize the tactics criminals use to steal billions every year. Beyond the mission itself, you also use your platform to bring people closer to God and offer hope and positivity in an industry that can be dark and frightening. Welcome to the show.

Thank you.

So a couple things before we get started here. Everybody gets a gift.

Yes, I played sports so I can catch that. You might think like a computer guy, computer guy can't catch the gummy bears, you know. So right on. Um, very cool. Vigilance Elite. I love it.

Vigilance Elite gummy bears made in the US.

I love it.

No funny business in there.

Love it.

No, I see vitamin D.

Well, I mean, there's nothing healthy in there, but nothing bad, at least right now.

Right. I like it. I like it. This is— I think everyone has to taste test it, right?

Yeah.

Okay. My kids are going to be jealous that I'm having gummy bears.

We'll load you up before you go home.

Very good. I actually have some surprises for you. I know there's like counter-gifting.

Oh, nice.

Do you want me to tell you the surprises now, or how do we— how do you want to do this?

Whenever you feel appropriate.

Okay. We can do it now if you want to get out of the way.

All right. Okay.

Is that cool or—

Yeah, of course.

Okay. Well, the first one actually has to do with the gummy bears. So we've been building a way of destroying a scammer's computer using your Vigilance Elite gummy bears. I know this sounds weird, but we're actually going to a little bit later remote into a scammer's computer and run a virus on their computer that destroys it with a bunch of gummy bears on their screen. And you're going to be able to see it all happen live. I know it sounds awesome. I know, like, gummy bears are very sweet, but these gummy bears are going to, like, destroy a scammer's computer. Like, they'll be, like, mid-scam and all of a sudden their screen's going to go— you're going to be able to see all of it. It's going to be fun.

Dude, I can't wait to see that.

Yeah, we can show— I brought my computer to show you, like, live scams, how it works. We can pull up some of their webcams too, if you want to see. We can listen to their audio. There might even be a live scan we could stop and I can kind of show you how that works as well.

Oh man, that would be amazing.

All live, not prerecorded. It's all there.

I love this kind of stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The other thing I got, 2 more things. This is— I know Ryan gave you his version. I don't know if you remember the Hackalpedos.

Yeah.

This is the OG Hack All Scammers hoodie, and it's just a gift from my team back at the office to you. And so it's, it's our Hack All Scammers hoodie. And that's kind of the motto that we have within our team is Hack All Scammers. So it's my favorite hoodie and it's our mantra. That's what we do all day, every day. So, love it. Yeah, man.

Thank you.

Um, the final thing I was going to maybe wait till later, but, um, this is actually— oh my gosh, this is funny. I have a thing from Delta. They left a card there. Um, that's really funny. Uh, this is actually— I don't know if you've ever heard of this. This is the Kenneth Wuest New Testament.

No, I haven't.

So this is actually— it's just the New Testament, And this guy, he took the— like, with the New Testament being written in Greek, he took the actual translations of the Greek. So it's like more expanded. It's a very dry read because it's not like NIV being kind of like paraphrased and things like that. I don't know what version of Bible necessarily you read, if you have a specific version or anything like that.

I don't.

Do you? Yeah, I will read King James, and then I'll also read ESV, which is English Standard Version. And there are differences, some of them being the actual translation of word by word. And then you look at NIV, which is more of a paraphrase. So this actually takes direct translation from the Greek terms and puts it out. So you have more context. Whereas it might be 1 or 2 words in the Bible, it's got like a whole sentence with—

Interesting.

Yeah, based upon the times. So it's not like a very— I don't know, it's like a very dry read, but you feel like you're getting more because you're getting the direct Greek translation.

That's awesome.

So I read this one. I want to like kind of study a little bit more, if that makes sense.

Thank you.

You want to have like a little bit more of a contextualized— because the Bible is not just about like Reading Words. Yeah, that's one of the ministries. I just use that as a bookmark in there. But the Bible is not just about reading words, right? It's life, it's light, these are true things that happened. And to have the context, the Greek context directly translated is really cool. So you get a better understanding of what did they mean by this?

Uh-huh.

Because a lot of people want to kind of put their own meanings on the Bible. Oh, this is just allegory, or things like that. But that gives— I'm not saying that's the be-all end-all, but it gives a really cool translation, I guess, of it. So anyway, thank you. Yeah, I use that a lot to kind of dig a little bit deeper.

Well, that'll come in handy. I was telling you, you know, before we started, I haven't read the whole Bible. Yeah, I get frustrated when I read it because I don't understand 90% of what I'm reading.

Yeah.

And So, we're going to do the whole thing here on this show.

Are you starting from Genesis?

We're starting from Genesis and going all the way to Revelation.

And, once you get into some of those, it is gnarly at the beginning.

I'm excited, man. I mean, I've read maybe 50% of it, but understand way less than that. But yeah, we're looking for the right guests to go through each and everything. And I thought it's going to be awesome.

That's so cool. Like, you're going to have on, like, pastors and different folks. Like, how's that? Yep. That's amazing.

All kinds.

Really cool.

And, well, I got a couple more gifts for you too, but we'll wait till later.

Awesome.

So that's all I have. I don't have any. I don't have any more. That's all I got. That's all I got.

I'll take them. Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah, man, of course.

So I got a Patreon account and They've been with me since the beginning when it was just me and my wife doing this in the attic.

So cool.

Of our house. And they're the only ones that supported us at the beginning. So they get the opportunity to ask every single guest that comes on the show a question. This is from Austin Padgett. I remember the early days of SP, the small victories that came from successfully harassing scammers. How do those early victories compare to the work you're doing today? Where the wins are bigger, the progress is greater, and you're ultimately protecting more victims.

Well, that's really cool to hear, actually. Kind of like it. And one of the things I do want to point out really quickly off this question, I'll answer it. But, you know, like the focus, it used to be just kind of pranking scammers. And I thought, as long as they're on the phone with me, they can't be on the phone with somebody else. Stealing money from them, and I remember like the first time I ran across a victim, and she had lost $36,000, and she lost everything. And it was a real person in California. Her name was Susan, and it changed everything. It was like immediately, this is very real, very fast. It's not like doing voice changers and all these fun things. It was like there's actually somebody's life that's being ruined.

Mm-hmm.

And once you realize that, you have to do something about it or else, like, you're just turning a blind eye to darkness, pretty much.

Mm-hmm.

So that's why I decided to, like, step my game up and really, like, kind of be proactive and, like, take it to these guys. So, you know, the small wins back then were like, we called it like reversing to the scammer's computer, like socially engineering them to like let us on their computer. So they would call us and connect to my computer, and then we would send a request back to them, and they would— you have to coerce them into accepting the request. So they get like a prompt that says like yes or no, and then you would say things like, oh, my screen, it says yes and no, but it's not letting me click it. Can you click it for me? And then they click yes, but it's allowing me onto their computer.

Wow.

That was like in the early days. It's so crazy to think about. And then from there, you can see everything on their computer and do everything. So the little wins that that person's talking about is like kind of destroying and trolling the scammers a little bit. And then now where we're getting to is like full-fledged, like investigations, stopping, you know, multi-hundred thousand dollar wire transfers, getting call centers raided, arrested, people investigated, indictments, things like that. And at the end of the day, man, like, I want to honor Jesus. Like, I want to take this moment really quickly and like literally everything that I do, everything that he's blessed me with, like all the honor and glory goes to him. Every, every single thing with this channel, with what I've been doing, it all goes to him.

That's awesome, man.

I push it away from me and it's straight to Jesus.

So that's awesome. You guys know my schedule. I'm in the studio all day. I'm on the road and I've got kids. The last thing I have time for is standing around a gym Wondering what to do next. That's why I'm on the Ladder app. I've got a real coach in my ear on every set. What's next? What weight?

Why?

It's a new plan every week that builds on the last, and it goes where I go. The garage with dumbbells or a hotel room on the road. 30 to 45 minutes and I'm done for less than a dollar a day. I've trained my whole life. In the teams, nothing we did was random. Somebody who knew more than you wrote the program, and you got results. That's the difference between working out and training. Ladder puts that kind of real programming in your ear. Remove the guesswork with Ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout. No thinking. Everything planned for you. If you're a guy who's been meaning to get back to it, this is the way back. If you have an iPhone, head to ladder.fit/srs and take a quick quiz to get matched with your coach and the right plan for you. Use my link and get a free 7-day trial with no credit card and $10 off your first month if you join. Man, I just— I, like I said, I, I love what you're doing. And, uh, you know, I kind of Like, Ryan was the first person that I kind of talked to that, you know, dedicated his life to doing something like that.

And, um, and we took a huge gamble, you know, by bringing him on. But I, I saw him on like this shitty— I shouldn't say shitty— very small MMA podcast.

Yeah.

And he's like talking about what he did, and I'm like How's nobody paying attention to this guy, you know? And, and so it like angered me.

Yeah.

And you know what he's doing. I mean, for anybody that doesn't know who he is, he's, you know, hunting down pedophiles that are doing shit to kids.

Yeah, little kids.

Crazy. And, uh, you know, YouTube doesn't like this subject.

Nope.

Politicians don't like this sub— like, it's a It's a touchy subject. And I was like, I don't— I don't— we had a lot of discussions about it on the team. I was like, I don't care, man. Like, if this is what takes me out and wipes the channel away and they delete everything, yeah, like, I could put my head down at night knowing I tried to do a good thing. And, you know, and it wound up being the biggest interview we've ever done still to date.

Amazing.

And so me and him have become Really, he's one of my best friends.

That's awesome.

He's now the godfather of my son. And then he introduced me to this kid, I guess not a kid, Schlep.

You've heard of Schlep?

Yeah, Schlep.

Oh yeah.

And I brought Schlep on and he's the one that's kind of exposing roadblocks. And Ryan had a big part in that, but Schlep has dedicated his entire life to exposing roadblocks. And I was chatting with him the other day. It was either him or Ryan, but actually I think it was Ryan. And I had told Schlepp, or it was one or the other. But anyways, since we've exposed Roblox on this show, as of last week, they've taken a $38 billion cut in their stock. $38 billion. We took like $6 billion in a week or a month or something. Wow.

And I was like, man, that's a—

Like, that's a big dent. Now it's $38 billion. You can look at the graph and it's just from when we released the first episode on it to now, it's just—

Wow.

Downhill, buddy. And they didn't do anything, you know. And then, uh, you know, I got a partner, Sig Sauer, that they're a gun manufacturer, uh, American-made, and they were using— they had their guns on the, on the channel. And, uh, so I, I called my buddy Jason at Sig and I was like, hey dude, Like, just so you know, this is getting ready to come out. And they, they have these games inside Roblox where they've recreated all the active shooter events. Like—

Oh my gosh. Columbine.

Yeah, dude. Columbine, Sandy Hook, Udall V. All of them.

Really?

Exact same layout in the school. And then, and you go in and shoot the victims, and the kids' names, like, that got killed are above the characters in the game. And they were using a Sig Sauer gun. So Jason got legal involved over at Sig Sauer, and they pulled all up— they're like, basically like, we're gonna— whatever they said, probably something along the lines of, we're going to sue your ass if you don't get our, our name off of your game. And, uh, like, this isn't, you know, this isn't what we do. And, uh, and then, you know, I think now today, like, You fall in the same category. I mean, I don't know how many people are getting scammed today. Probably thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe millions. You know what I mean? And it's a huge problem that the federal government, from what I understand, really is not doing much to address it.

Yeah.

Just like human trafficking, pedophilia.

Yeah.

Roadblocks.

Yeah.

Like sexual exploitation, grooming.

Yeah.

And so I really mean that, man. I just want to commend you for what you're doing. It's, it's, it's, and I know it comes at a heavy cost, which we're gonna talk about at the end.

Yeah, I like, I find myself like absolutely dumbfounded that a publicly traded company has something like that. Or is, they're publicly traded, you're saying? Wow. That they would have within a video game the ability to recreate those types of shooting events. Like, it's just— it's crazy to me. And for it to be allowed, I, I don't understand that. And for little kids, it's like demonic. It's, it's, um, it's not like you're having to go to the, the dark web to find some kind of a crazy thing, which Ryan— Ryan, I've told him, like, don't ever show me anything crazy, you know? I'm like, we've, you know, we've gotten to like the, the edge of the water, you know? And I'm like, I don't ever want to see that stuff or hear about it. Like, I know he gets into the gnarly stuff And I think it's a resource thing. For whatever reason, the government doesn't want to put resources to this to stop this stuff.

Isn't it weird?

I don't freaking get it. And if you asked every American, 10 out of 10, 100 out of 100, they would say, yeah, I'd pay extra taxes to have something go against All of this dark stuff that's out there, man. And yeah, ours ours like is like because our content is silly sometimes, but the underbelly of it—it's like it's really it's really sad because they're not taking a couple hundred dollars of gift cards anymore. There, I'm literally watching someone yesterday steal $100,000 in crypto. Like go. Go into the victim's computer while they're not there and go into their crypto account and transfer money from their bank account to the crypto account and then send the crypto to their wallet and it's gone. Now I'm working with my people to get it stopped, so we're on top of it. But that's just an example, and that's every single day. And that's like one scammer, and they're constantly doing this. They're waiting for their victims to be asleep. To go into their computer without them knowing. They're turning on their cameras. They're creating accounts, LLCs in their names. They're stealing their identities. Like, and it is— it's hard because the one thing I'll say is that they're using our systems against us.

They're using like our banking systems against us. They're using our shipping, like FedEx and UPS and things like that. They're using our shipping companies, USPS. They're using crypto against us. They're using our big box chains, Target, Walmart. They're using all of technology, Amazon, Microsoft. They're using all of this against us to steal, to literally steal the wealth away from the United States, from our senior citizens. And it's a very, it's an emergency in my opinion.

It's sad. Well, we're going to get into more of it. So before we— before I want to talk about this, this recent thing you did, the $65 million takedown.

Yeah.

Can we go into that? Sure.

Yeah.

Where do we start?

2019.

I'll kind of like give you what I started to do at first that led to this, if that's okay.

Yeah, that works too.

So this, this is like from the Susan lady that I was telling you about where I'm like, okay, there's just like grandma on the other side. Because what happens is, if people aren't aware, I deal with scammers like in these call centers overseas, and they pretend to be like Microsoft, for instance, or Amazon or some kind of tech company. And there's like either a fraudulent charge on your account, something to do with your bank account, or you've been hacked and you have to save your money by transferring a bunch of money to these scammers, and they pretend to be like the government. They pretend to be the FBI. They pretend to be all these crazy things just to get your money. And you get to this point, you're on the phone with them for like 3 or 4 hours, and then they're like, well, you need to send us money. Like, you need to go take a bunch of cash out from your bank account, put into a box, and ship it in the US. That happens every day.

Are you serious?

Hundreds of thousands of dollars. Every single—

pull their money out of a bank and put it into a box and ship it to—

They will ship it to random places. And these cells inside of the US, these are foreign criminals that are not legal in the US. They come here for these purposes and they launder money. They're crime organizations that launder money for scammers overseas. And Some of these can be even tied to terrorist organizations, I would assume, overseas. And what happens is Grandma goes and gets her $50,000 out of her bank account, and they teach her how to lie to the bank. So the bank sits there and says, are you sure you want to take this money out? And Grandma's like, yeah, I'm sure. I'm renovating my house. And meanwhile, the scammer is literally on the phone in her pocket listening to everything. We watch this every single day happen.

Holy shit.

So they ship, they get, they get the money out, they put it in an envelope, and then they put it into a box. They wrap it with aluminum foil, or they wrap the envelope with aluminum foil, put into a box. They wrap that box with duct tape, and they put it into another box, and they wrap it with like wrapping paper, and then they ship it. And then it's called hovala. which is like a money transfer system in these Asian countries. And the hawala person, they open up that— usually they're like either staying at an Airbnb or what they'll do is they'll scope out like houses that are for sale that are vacant and they'll have the— they'll, they'll have the package sent overnight delivery and it goes to that thing and they snipe it and they grab the box, they open it up and then they take film of it and then they send it to the people overseas. And then they'll turn it into Bitcoin or whatever. We've also seen like gold. A lot of times they have the victims buy gold and ship it to their house, and then the criminal will drive to the house of the victim and pick up the gold.

Happened to my next-door neighbor. The craziest story.

Holy shit. It's, it's, it's kind of— it's a little hard to believe that people fall for. Yes. Empty your bank account. Keep me on the phone while you're emptying it. Wrap it up in foil, wrap it up in duct tape, make it look like a present, and send it to this undisclosed location.

It sounds so crazy. And meanwhile, the guy on the other line has like an Indian accent, and his name is like— one of the scammers we dealt with, Alex LeBron was his name. Alex LeBron.

Alex LeBron with an Indian accent.

Mhm.

It's so stupid. I know it sounds stupid when you talk about this, but these scammers are so good. They have control of the victim's computer. They can lock their computer. They'll hold their computer ransom, just like ransomware attacks. They will lock you out of your computer. They are really— they can edit your bank account to make it look like you have $0, to make it look like they put in $100,000. They steal your passwords. They log into your computer when you're not there. They do all sorts of things. And these grandmas and grandpas that are very trusting, they don't verify it with their kids, they don't call anyone. We dealt with a stroke victim that we actually drove. She had had a stroke the week before. She was on the phone with scammers and they had her take out $40,000 and she was driving to a gas station to put the cash into a Bitcoin ATM. And she didn't tell her husband anything, and they were going to lose all that money. We drove an hour to the Bitcoin ATM because we had eyes and ears on everything and stopped it before it all happened.

She had all the cash in her little envelope and was going to go put it and send it away. And the crazy thing is, we went to the bank and I told the bank, I'm like, why are you guys letting this lady take out all of her money? And the banker got— the manager got mad at me. And kicked me out for saving someone that they just let get all the money taken out of her account. She was mad at me. Wow.

I mean, I, I am guilty of getting pissed at the banks because it's so like, like if you wire money nowadays, it's, it's, it's, it's like it can become an all-day event. And they— I get it, I get it. But man, it's frustrating, especially when you're busy, you know what I mean? You need to wire money to this whatever, and they're like, well, who, who are you wiring it to? This person. How did you meet him? How do you know him? How long have you known him? What's their business? And I'm like, holy shit, I just want to wire my own money to this person. Like, quit asking.

Like, yeah, it's your money, you should be able to do whatever you want.

But I mean, but then, you know, like I said, the thing happened with my chief of staff a month ago or whatever, and I was like, oh shit, like is like, this is happening all the time.

The group in this— well, I know I kind of went on a tangent, but like this $65 million scam group, it originated from like the victim. And then, you know, they wanted me to send this money. So I'm like, I'm going to see who's on the other side of this, like who's collecting the money every day. I had no idea. So like I had this idea where I was going to send a camera in a box. And I made this contraption that was like a camera connected to a hotspot and that has internet on it. And then I was going to remote into the camera to see who was opening the package. And the one time I got the notification that somebody was opening it, it got confiscated. So I didn't get to see who it was. It was the police that confiscated it. And I guess that address was hot or something, but it kind of led me— I had this curiosity because I was like, okay, I can still— then I started sending people out that are in the scam. We call it scam baiting, where you bait in the scammers. We started sending people out to these locations and confronting whoever was on the other side.

And I'm like, this is crazy, dude. There's these random people picking up money and gold bars and all this stuff. And it's happening everywhere. And they're driving like my next door neighbor. I had a guy that I work with in the UK, and he texted me. He's like, is this your address? And first off, I'm like, what do you mean? You haven't been to my house. What do you mean this is my address? I'm like, that's pretty close. And I'm like, how do you know that? And he said, well, there's a guy that's coming to pick up money really close to that. So I got in the car, And drove, and lo and behold, there was like a dude with a New York license plate sitting outside of this grandpa's house two houses down, and I'm taking pictures of him and stuff like that. And they just have guys driving around the U.S. every like, and we see the screens, and it's like all the Chinese symbols and stuff, and they're on WhatsApp, and they'll drive for hours to pick up gold, cash, everything. And it's I'm telling you, it's happening. Everywhere, every day. This group had 2,000 victims.

2,000 victims in what time frame?

Uh, a few years. The whole thing was like— it was like 5 or 6 years of investigation. So it went from one guy to a second guy to 5 guys to 12 to 20. I think the total that were arrested was like 24 or 25, and it was $65 million over a number of years. The main guy that got arrested had like a $10 or $15 million house in LA, living the, you know, living the life off of scam money. Because the $65 million is like probably 20% of— that's probably what they had, 20% of what the actual crimes were, because they get a cut of everything. So it's probably way more than that, probably closer to half a billion.

Wow.

That's just one group.

Who— so who are the majority of these scammers? Are they all foreign actors?

Yes. Mostly out of Indian call centers.

Indian call centers.

Some Pakistan, some India. You have other scammers that do like the romance ones on like, you know, everyone used to like make fun of like the Nigerian prince. You know, I don't know if you've heard of that one. It's like Like, you get the random email one day and it's like, I'm a prince in Nigeria and I have all this money and I need someone to give it to, and I'm going to be giving it to you. And that's how the scam starts. And it's like, you're going to be getting all this money and you have to either pay taxes or whatever on it. I don't know the whole thing, but I never really deal with them. But you have scammers out of India and Pakistan we deal with. You have scammers out of kind of Eastern Europe. that do more crypto-type scams, and they have call centers in countries like Georgia and things like that. There's been some big takedowns. And then you have guys in Africa that do the romance ones, and they're pretty good about it. And they also run out of the UK. So a lot of them will go to the UK, they'll go to Turkey, 'cause it's easier for them to operate, I guess.

Hmm.

And then you have— I know this sounds crazy as well— you have Publishers Clearing House scammers that deal out of Jamaica, and they pretend to be the Publishers Clearing House, and they target senior citizens and say they've won earnings, and they steal money. Those people are pretty crazy too.

What about China? A lot?

China is pretty gnarly, I would say. They're more the money-moving apparatus.

Okay.

I would say, um, they're more worried about, like, I think, stealing, like, intellectual property.

Hmm.

And, um, but the, the moving of money, they're really good about doing that, setting up LLCs, um, students coming over here to the US to study and overstaying their visa, things like that. So the guys that got arrested, the high majority were not U.S. citizens, and they're going to go to jail and then get deported after that.

How long do they go to jail for? Do you have any idea?

The crimes are supposed to be up to life because you're looking at the amount of money that was being stolen. And then also with it being wire fraud and elder fraud. So they can— the DOJ can stack like a bunch of charges. That's why it took so long. And the hope is that they're in jail for a long time. I think it's like 20 to 40 years and then they get deported.

Wow.

Yeah. And there's plenty more out there.

It's just an endless—

Yeah.

Endless funnel, right?

It's an endless supply. And our population's only getting older and technology's only getting better.

I mean, do you have any statistics on like how many times a day this happens? What's the average age of a victim?

Yeah. I mean, the ones that we see, like we've seen victims be college-aged and fall— there's like a Social Security scam where they used to run one out of India where they would call up and pretend to be the SSA, the Social Security Administration, and they would say like, hey, there's an abandoned vehicle. And this sounds so stupid. I know I'm going to tell you the story, though. There's an abandoned vehicle in Texas. It's a rental car with all of your information in there and a bunch of drugs, cocaine, heroin, and a bunch of money laundering has been happening under your name. Is that you? And then the person's obviously like, no, that's not me. Like, no. And they're like, well, we need to see what's going on with your bank accounts. Do you have all these bank accounts? No, we don't have that. Okay, well, how much money do you have in your Bank of America? Well, I have $30,000. Okay, well, there's been some type of identity theft that's happened. We work for the Social Security Administration. My name is Alex LeBron. I'm an agent with the SSA. It sounds so absurd, but this happens all the time.

And they would say, well, the only way to safeguard your money from this crazy crime that's been happening, if it's not you, is to take your money out and you need to send it to like a safety locker so that we can investigate. If you don't do that, we're going to send a federal agent to your house. And there's stories of college students taking out all their money, you know, for college, $30,000. And there's one in the state of Georgia, college student took out all their money from this specific scam. So you could— my point is you could be 20 years old Or you could be, you know, average we see 55, 65 years old that are getting scammed. The scammers are going for big bucks now. They're not going for a couple hundred dollars. They will hang up on someone that doesn't have money. They buy data on victims that are in affluent areas. They know like net worth and things like that. They have insiders at banking companies that will extract data and give it to them.

No shit.

Mm-hmm.

I've seen it. Checking account, savings account, like dollar amounts, Social Security numbers, address, phone number, all of it. So when you have that data, you could scam anybody. I could call you and say, hey, I'm your bank, here's all your data. And they'd be like, oh yeah, that is true. Well, someone's hacked your account, so you need to go move it immediately. And they'll go and do that. Happens every day. We see it. We have thousands of scammer connections, uh, that are— it's just rolling because they go online, offline, they destroy their computers, they buy new ones. Um, it's just this cat and mouse game that we have to stay on top of. It's a never-ending cycle.

Shit.

So I mean, when we say foreign actors, are they— are these mob organizations, terrorist organizations, or are these actual foreign government Organizations or all of the above?

So I think the laundering side could be probably tied to some type of crime organization. I would assume some pretty gnarly groups that get, you know, when you're laundering money, you're not just laundering it for scam. You're probably laundering money for other things. There's also been probably ties overseas with Terrorist groups. I don't have a specific one, but we've heard of that happening just with the nature of the areas that some of these call centers deal in. And then, yeah, it's like, I don't know about necessarily like nation states, like, you know, trying to influence it from there. But if there's money involved, there's like— we dealt with an Indian call center where they had politicians that owned the call centers. And, you know, these are— there's big businessmen that own call centers and they run a business during the day and then they have a scam business at night and it's all hidden and everybody's in on it.

Wow. So let's go back to the $65 million bust. I mean, so what was your involvement in that?

Yeah, so great question. So I was trying to kind of like paint the picture of like how all this stuff works. Um, or at least kind of get to the edge of it here. But essentially, these guys— we started sending people physically, um, to see who's on the other end of collecting this money. And that kind of got some interest, I guess, from the government because they were like, oh wow, there's actual victims and there are these people Going around stealing money from people. So because we collect the information of the people when we confront them, so we had like their ID card and their rental car. You know, they're really good, dude. Like they stay at Airbnbs, they get rental cars, they have burner phones. They are really good at what they do. This shows a this shows a crime organization to me when you're taking all these steps. This isn't just a random person. So we obviously gave over the information and. One person leads to all these others. So it started with a phone call. I pretended to be a victim, and I went through the scam bait where I baited the scammers in from India, and then they reach out to someone here locally in the U.S. and say, "Hey, there's going to be fifty thousand dollars going to this place," and then I sent a package.

I had the best UPS store guy ever because he knew what I did, and he let me use like fake names and stuff. And we would send packages with like nothing in it, but you had to have a physical package so that they could track it through UPS. And then the scammers in India, they track this package, they send it to the people here in the US, and then that person is waiting for a package to show up. And then it was us that was there. And then one guy leads to a bunch of them. So after that though, like—

Are these guys dangerous?

Like, yeah, that's why I never really went out there myself.

Gotcha.

I sent somebody else. Yeah, they, they're pretty dangerous.

Are they armed?

Yeah.

How do you know that? Any incidents?

Uh, no. The guys that— there's like initial runners, and then they run the cash or the gold to somebody else. And one of the guys that we stopped was like, hey, like These guys are in a hotel set up with like guns and all. It's crazy. Like, I have to do this. My life is at stake. And they like forced him to do it for a couple hundred bucks because they put these like runners out there to collect the money. And if they get busted, like, so be it. You know, the real crime, like, once is once you kind of peel back the onion and go back a little further, you know. So, um, it is very dangerous. Like, once you get physical, like face-to-face with somebody, that confrontation. I work through like the shadows of the computers and the phone and stuff. And, um, but we can set up like, again, if, if a scammer knows a package is going somewhere, like they're going to go for that money.

Yeah.

And on the other side now it'll be law enforcement or somebody instead of like a civilian. Like, sheesh. Yeah.

Who's volunteering? I mean, who in Who are you getting to volunteer for this?

I mean, there's other YouTubers in the space that like will go out and do it.

Gotcha.

For like videos and stuff. And just kind of similar to like the, like the pedo hunters that will go and confront someone that's there to see a kid. We will confront someone to go steal money from grandma. It's very similar. And the thing though with that is like, it's great, but I started to realize like What's the end goal? Like, the end goal for me is mass numbers of arrests and victims saved. So, um, I never make videos on that, on the confrontations. If I get the information, it's going directly to authorities so they can arrest somebody.

Are they— I mean, are you— what's your experience working with them? They take it seriously? I mean, they realize it's a real problem. Are they putting actual resources towards it? Well, that doesn't sound promising.

I mean, so I'm really proud of the indictments that happened. I'm extremely proud of it. I think that there should be a coalition that happens between banks, technology, government, federal and state and local. And I would love to head that up. I know there's an executive order that came out on scams and nobody called me. That would have been cool to give my expertise on what we see, how to stop it. So we have to take things into our own hands sometimes. A lot of times. I think that the government cares about protecting people. I don't think they know how. And it's such a widespread thing. The hardest part, Sean, is that these scammers use so many systems that don't talk to each other. So how do you protect something when you get one side of it, but then you don't get the other 4? Like you're just watching. It's like in security, like in cybersecurity, it's like you can't protect the house if you don't know how many doors and locks there are, right? And windows, right?

Mm-hmm.

It's like just basic stuff. So you could throw a billion dollars at it. I'll take a billion dollars from the government if they want me to do it, I guess, you know. But like, we're too worried doing the other stuff we're doing, I guess.

What, what other stuff?

All the other things we have going on. Like, we spend so much money, you know. Like—

Oh yeah, okay, that stuff.

Yeah, we spent like— we spend trillions of dollars. We have these crazy budgets and everything, and the wealth of the, of the US is being just siphoned away cut by cut, little cut by little cut, elderly person by elderly person. It's really sad, man. Like, I think the government does care. They just don't know how to stop it.

I don't know if they do care. I just— I don't— I mean, Bessant said what, there's, there's an estimated $600 billion in fraud in the US alone every Year.

That's reported every year. It's even reported. That's even reported, man.

What do they want to do? Raise taxes. Let's not, let's not go after the $600 billion in fraud that's happening. Yeah, every year. Let's just raise tax. That's just government fraud.

Yeah, like, oh yeah, oh, I see what you're saying.

Like the Somali— yeah, yeah, yeah, learning centers and like the day— the fake daycares and all this shit. That's just that kind of stuff.

Did anything ever come of that, by the way?

I don't know. I don't think anything ever comes of anything with the US government.

Being a YouTuber, I just— being a YouTuber, we try to shine as much light on things as we can. Light is the best disinfectant, I guess. And we've tried to put as much pressure on India to do something. And some—

Have you had any success with that?

Yeah, we did something with Mark Rober, a couple other YouTubers in my space. We did stuff with Mark Rober.

I love that guy. You're working with him?

Yeah, we did. Like, um, we actually did glitter bombs. So, you know, like the guys that pick up the packages? Yeah. One of the ladies was in Texas and we sent a package, but instead of the package arriving He pretended to be FedEx and they dropped off a package to this person and she goes to open it up and it's a freaking glitter bomb and like explodes all over her and stuff like that. And then the police were there to arrest her.

That's awesome.

Yeah, but they did some stuff in a call center. They did another video, Mark did with some other guys in MySpace, where they went into a call center and like put rats out and all the stuff in the call center. But the thing is, is like we expose these huge, like, thousand, thousand employee call centers in India that are like regular businesses. But then at nighttime, they're stealing whatever, hundreds of millions from people. And these bosses make all this crazy amount of money and have, you know, resorts in Goa, India, which is like on the west side of India. They take their money and move it into you know, dark money into, you know, I guess good money or whatever, real businesses. So they're good about moving the money around. So we just try to— like, what my point is with that is when we put the pressure on India, they had to do something. Like those videos, like on some of the call centers we exposed, it was like hundreds of millions of views. So at some point someone has to do something.

Mm-hmm.

Like in these cities, like they have to do something to save face. So that's really what we've known as the best way of doing it is like exposing, exposing, exposing. Here's the location. Here's the exact geolocation of this call center or the scammer. Here's their IP address. Here's the evidence of their scams. They need like 3 victims and they need victim statements and all this stuff. It's like, it's worse than like getting like a buying a house.

Mm-hmm.

Like you have to go through all these things to get someone arrested. Sucks.

Well, I want to get more into that one a little bit later, but I mean, just, just US government, like, have they done— yeah, have they done anything to like protect citizens from this kind of shit?

Yes.

I'll just, I'll give you a couple of examples. Like, we've exposed a lot of shit on this show, you know, just not just the stuff with Ryan and Schlepper, like this flag for example. Like, we exposed that we, the US government, is sending the Taliban $80 million a week in cash.

Wow.

$80 million a week in cash.

Wow.

We exposed that like 2 years ago, maybe a little, little longer now. And so it was exposed by an Afghan-American Army intelligence guy, uh, goes by the name Legend, and He goes over there and kind of fights with the resistance or helps the resistance or whatever. And he brought that flag back when he, when he exposed that on the show. That was from the Taliban burning it.

Wow.

We got this thing blown up. All these congressmen were talking about it. Senators were talking about it. Promises were made. Nothing's happened.

Yeah.

Of course nothing's happened. That's just one, you know, that's billions of dollars now. Yeah, that we're sending to, uh, organization that we fought for 20-plus years, still fighting them in different parts of the world.

I don't know.

And it's like nothing happens. Government's very aware of all the, you know, the pedo shit and sex exploitation that's going on with kids.

Yeah.

I don't see anything happening. You know, they're aware of the scammer stuff. I'm hoping you're going to say they're doing something. I mean, probably not anything significant, you know. And so what I've found just personally in, in, in bringing things to the light is the government will do nothing. You know, there's a saying, you know, nobody's going to come save you. And so I think that, you know, whether it's— whether we're talking about parents that want to protect their kids from pedophiles and sexual exploitation, or, or, or, or the stuff that's going on on Roblox, which is the exact same thing, or the stuff that you're talking about. I think the only real impact that we can have— yeah, you can put pressure on the government and you might get a win here and there, and you might get some people unseated. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

We've done that. We've got some people unseated from the government that were turds that don't need to be in there. But did it really solve anything? Because just another turd that's going to take their spot.

Yeah.

And so I think the biggest thing you can do, which you're doing, is you educate as many people as you possibly can.

Yeah.

This is what's happening. This is how it's happening. This is how easy it is to fall for. And, and, and, and you, you educate the population on, on, on those things. This is what you can do to stop it.

Yeah.

You know, and And that word spreads fast. I mean, as you've seen, I mean, yeah, you have an enormous audience.

Yeah, we've reached like 1.5 billion people on YouTube and I don't know how many hundreds of millions or whatever everywhere else, but 1.5 billion views on our videos. And it's pointing at how these scams work. And that's one of the most fulfilling things is when someone, a banker comes up to me and says, hey, like, we recognize this thing that was happening and we shut it down because we watch your videos. or someone in the comments. There's like a kid that had heard a grandpa on the phone getting gift cards at a Publix of all places. He was 12 years old and he told everyone that it was a scam and saved a grandpa. And this kid's 12 years old. And I think that's what we're trying to do the best that we can is inspire people. When you— it's one thing to have the knowledge, but then when you're hearing something, like going and doing something with like the see something, say something kind of an idea.

Yeah.

Because I do think that the government kind of wants to do something. They are doing things to help us, but it's like not as agile and as fast as I, I don't understand why they can't move faster. That's the stuff that kind of bothers me. Like a startup company, like my, my guys in our office, like the team we work with, we get information so fast and then it's like you, you give it to them and it's like goes to the abyss sometimes. And you're like, where's the follow-up? Not so I can make a video necessarily, but it's like, I want to know that that person's safe or whatever. Or did we catch the guy? And I feel— I don't know. I just would love to see there be more attention paid to this because it's not like— it's not as like well-known, I guess. Like everyone knows about scams, but they think like, well, I haven't been impacted by it, so it's not that big of a deal.

What have they done?

Um, I mean, that was, that was nice. The indictment, that was a start. I think I would like to see India extraditing these bosses to the US. I would love to see that.

Are we talking about the Indian government or are we talking about the US government?

Well, US and India working together. But obviously, I don't know what the relationships are like there. Like, hey, can you guys extradite this call center boss that has stolen whatever, $10 million this year from 1,000 US citizens, telling them that they have child pornography on their computers?

So how do— what is happening there?

Are they—

they're relying on you and your team to do all the work, and then maybe they'll go make an arrest after you've laid all of the groundwork? Yeah, that's what's happening.

Yeah.

What a joke. I'm sorry.

I mean, like, and so we try to set up stings as much as possible to catch these guys on the other side. The hard part is that the scammer is overseas.

Yeah.

So they're doing the best that they can to get somebody here. And a lot of the times these call centers that are in India, they don't personally know the person here in the US that's getting the money. It's a whole different crime group. So there's no like connection outside. Like they find people on Telegram, they find people on these crypto exchanges. Like you could, there's exchanges where you can, you can trade gift cards for crypto. So you could literally take $5,000 of Target gift cards and send a code to somebody on the internet and then they'll send you crypto. And that's what a lot of these guys, how they find them. So there's no like direct ties. Like if you catch the person here in the US, you're not going to find the guy in India. And that's how good of a system they have, man. It's like, so it's like they're chasing this side and they go after these big ones like the $65 million. And then, but the other side I'm really worried about, like the guys in India, like how come they can't get in trouble and they know they're like invincible?

And that sucks, man. That's why we destroyed their computers.

Shit.

Because like, at least, at least we're doing something to like, or exposing them, their faces, stuff like that.

How did you, how did you even get into this? I mean, we talked about the, I think, 65-year-old grandma, but even before that, like, how did this stuff pop on your radar?

Yeah. Um, like my brother-in-law actually showed me these videos. And it was 2019. And like, he was like, hey, like, I thought he was going to show me like a car video because he's a big car guy. And like, I was like, I don't want to watch a car video. Like, I don't know like anything about cars, dude. Like, you know, he's a great guy, but I just don't know anything about cars. Like, I'm not the guy to talk about cars with. And I won't pretend like I'm not going to like try to make you happy. But I was trying to make him happy, and I realized, I'm like, oh, this is a computer video. I'm like, what is this? And he's like, oh, it's these guys in these call centers, and this guy calls them up and they're yelling back and forth. And I'm like, this is amazing. This is action. This is fun for me. This guy's calling up scammers, getting on their computers and destroying them, and they're cussing each other out. And I'm like, this is amazing entertainment. I stayed up till like 4 in the morning watching it. And you don't see anything.

All you do is you see the screens of the computer. And then you have 2 people yelling at each other. You don't see the faces or anything, but I was so intrigued by it. And then I remember watching like a video from— it was like this mashup on YouTube of Joe Rogan and Gary Vee. And it was like, should I quit my job? It was so— it was really weird. It was like about, you know, like I had a career in cybersecurity and it was like fulfillment in life. Like I had a family and a house and a car and a career, but like something was like kind of missing. And I thought it was like career-wise, but, um, come to find the past few years, it's been faith is what's really missing. That's really the only thing that can fulfill. That's a whole nother story. But once I found this genre on YouTube, I was like, this is freaking amazing. So I told my wife and I was like, hey, I want to start calling these guys up. I'm like, I feel like I could do this. And she's like, go ahead and do it.

So I'd wake up at 4 in the morning and like call these guys up and I would pretend to be grandma and just kind of prank call them. And then I started doing the thing where you would like reverse the access where they give you access to their computer. And that was like really fun. It's very like nerve-wracking, but it's like such an adrenaline rush when the scammer lets you on their computer, which is crazy to think about. They allow you on their computer and then you get to cause havoc. And then I started doing live streams and making videos and In 2019, I went from 35 subscribers. I remember I was on a vacation with my wife telling everyone I was a YouTuber at 35 subs, and I was just proud of doing it. I don't know, I was like doing something different, like creating. Like, I feel like God is the ultimate creator, and he created us to like go out and be and do and live life. And there was just like this fulfillment of like making something, like whether it's a business or a YouTube channel. And I just— it was just something that was so different on the inside whenever I'd make a video.

Just, you're like, you know, like an artist, you're making something. And then went from 35 subs where I was really happy telling everyone I do YouTube, which is really silly to think about looking back, but I was just so proud of it. And then into 17,000 subscribers. For some reason that stands out to me in August of 2019 to 100,000. to half a million to, you know, the numbers it's at now where you don't really look at the numbers anymore.

Mm-hmm.

And it's shifted from prank calling into this like vigilantism type thing where now you have like the weight of the world on your shoulders because one, you've got employees, you're trying to make the audience happy with the videos, you're trying to save people every day, you're trying to give information to law enforcement so they can go after bad guys. All of these things. And it's not just making YouTube videos anymore. I did not know what I was signing up for.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I can, I can relate a little bit. How many— do you have any idea how many scammers you've caught?

I mean, I think in the last year and a half it's like 5,000 to 8,000 scammers.

Shit.

Did you say that in the past year and a half?

Yeah.

5,000 to 8,000 scammers. Wow. That's, that's a lot of— that's how many. So how many is that a day?

At our peak, we were— when I say catching—

Year and a half, 5,000 to 8,000 scammers. I mean, shit, man. Yeah, I think 1,000 a year is like 3 a day.

Yeah. One of my guys is— he'll— his name is Knight. He'll probably Make me backtrack that number, but I'm pretty sure that was the number that we had over the past, like, year and a half was around 5,000 to 8,000. And it's a rolling number of scammers that are online that we have access to. So when I mean access, it means we can see their screen, we could type on their keyboard from overseas, we could use their mouse, we can listen to their scams, we can collect information on them, we can geolocate them within 10 meters. We can find anywhere Any, whatever they're doing, as long as they're connected to the internet.

So basically you're infiltrated inside networks right now and they don't even realize it.

Yes. We're listening to them. We're recording them. We're watching them. We're saving their victims under their nose. They have no idea. And they get mad actually when they have the victim send the package. They get mad at the, the guy that's collecting. They think it's his fault or they think it's FedEx's problem, but it's, it's us because we're stopping it. We've stopped wire transfers. We actually, a couple days ago, we stopped a scam where the guy had stolen crypto. Like, the crypto went into his wallet. I watched it happen, like the numbers changing. And we have a law enforcement friend actually out of Canada, and he deals with US law enforcement, and he was able to get it stopped and like the funds frozen and reversed and everything. The guy was scamming someone out of Australia. And it's just crazy. It's like every day you walk in the office and depending upon who's online, you have just a whole different slew of problems.

How many people do you have working for you?

We have one guy on the tech side that does a lot of the hacking. So we would bring in like 100 to 150 scammers a day and he builds certain infrastructure and There's certain things I can't say about our operation.

Gotcha.

Because we, the scammers, like, study us now and what we do, and they're very paranoid about us. But we have, like, 10 different ways to get ahead of them, and we use what they do against them, just like they've used stuff against us. We use stuff against them. So we socially engineer them. We have 3 or 4 different mechanisms of staying on their systems and watching them and stopping their scams, all while being very silent. The only time they know it's us is when we destroy their computer at the end. And we're very loud. We'll deep fry their microphones. We'll do piercing noises in their ears and they have headsets on. We will do little cricket chirps. Like they'll be sitting there and you'll hear a cricket chirping and they're like, where's that sound coming from? And then all of a sudden their computer goes kaput with all these things that happen on their screen. So it's a numbers game for us. They're constantly changing their computers out and we're constantly re-adding them every day.

What do you think happens to these guys within the organization when they botch one because you guys have infiltrated? Do you think they get killed or— there's got to be hell to pay. I would imagine it's very similar to a cartel mule muling money.

Yeah, it's, it's pretty gnarly out there in India. Um, the tech support scams originated in Delhi. There's a lot of support, tech support out there, and they thought like, well, we're doing legitimate tech support for actual companies, Microsoft, etc. And then some of these guys spun off and were like, well, what if we like kind of made our own thing where we could be a cheaper version of tech support? So we'll still do tech support and we'll fix people's computers just remotely, fix their printers, all that stuff. Well, how do we get more leads? What do we do? We'll actually force people to us. We will pay for ads and pretend to be support, or we'll force pop-ups. People are surfing the web and we'll force— what they do is they pay for pop-ups to happen on people's computers. That says there's a virus on their computer and to call this number immediately. So instead of they went from like real tech support into this, we're forcing people to call us so that we can scam them. And that's like the spectrum of where it's gone to. So you have these crime organizations in India that have set up these frameworks of how to scam U.S. citizens and Canada and Australia and Europe.

And the bosses at the top, they run it like a mafia infrastructure. And they take their phones when they come in. They hire young kids from different areas that are on, you know, they have no means of income and they force them to do this. They say it's a tech support job or a sales job.

And it's like trafficking.

Yeah, it's very similar to that. There was a call center in northern India that they would fly the scammers into and they kind of had like, I call it like seasons almost, like they would bring them in for like 3 or 4 months and then send them home to go see their families, bring them back. And they lived in the call centers. We had access to the CCTV cameras so we could see them at all hours. And they would sleep on cots. It was terrible conditions. They had rats crawling on them. There was one kid that had an insider that we paid to be an insider at the call center. And He said that one of the guys that he worked next to, literally I could see him on the cameras. He would like wave at me sometimes and he would text me and he's like, yeah, one of the guys overdosed on drugs and the call center boss's name was Krishna Yadav. They owed money to that guy's family and they would not. They like spit on his grave. Pretty much he said, like did not give the family the money that he was owed, even though he died in their call center.

Died in the call center.

Wow.

It's, it's crazy. They will beat, they will threaten, they'll beat their people, threaten them.

So it's slavery.

Yeah. The ones that get stuck in there and they can't get out in the call centers, it's really, it's very sad.

How big are these call centers?

In their high time, it was 1,000 people.

1,000 people?

Mm-hmm.

What do they have, enforcers running around?

Yeah, it's— if you think about this, it's at nighttime. So India is 10 and a half hours ahead of us. So what is like 12 o'clock here, business hours here, is like super late for them.

Mm-hmm.

So can you imagine like walking around India and then going into this huge building where during the day there's like actual companies working, and then at nighttime you have 1,000 people? So they have security guards, they have gates. Um, we had one of my guys was in India literally last month and He uses the bathroom trick to get in. He says, like, he has to use the bathroom. And there's people inside of these call centers, inside of these buildings at 3 in the morning. What are you doing at 3 in the morning? Nothing good.

Mm-hmm.

So it's not to say every building, every call center is a scam one, but like the ones that we know of, like they, they even ran out of government buildings sometimes and they're paying rent to be in a government building to scam people. There's another guy, Karl Rock, that is a YouTuber, and he actually lives in India. And he would go around and he's like a vlogger, and he would go around and he loves India and the culture and all that kind of stuff. And he showed, like, he ate outside of a call center. It was the Weebill IT Park in Siliguri, India. And the Weeble IT Park is a government building. Now, there's other valid businesses and things happening there, but then scam call centers are like hidden away. We had another call center raid in Hyderabad, India, and they were on the 5th floor and we found their location and Hyderabad police went in and raided them and things like that. And now where they're going with like since COVID's happened, they're doing the work from home bit. like the US has done.

Mm-hmm.

Where they have these, like, from a tech standpoint, they're using— the scammers are using, like, phone systems, like, like cloud phone systems. So they dial in, they log into a phone system, and then they run software on their computer. So whenever a victim calls in, it just gets routed to them. So they're working from home and it allows them to not be in a big call center anymore instead of like a big raid that happens. We're hitting them one by one now, which sucks for us, but it's because we're putting so much pressure on them.

So let's take a quick break.

Sure.

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Yeah.

1,000-plus people in one call center.

Yeah.

What else do we need to know about this whole apparatus? Um, do they have any of these call centers— are they— are any of them in the US?

They wouldn't dare do that here. Then the feds would be all up in their stuff, man, if it was in the US.

Okay. Sure.

Um, again, the money laundering side is here, and then there have been cases of the grandma scam. Which I was telling you earlier, where it's like you get— the grandma gets a phone call saying, I'm your grandson, I'm in trouble, I'm in jail, I need money to get out. And they will— those people call and then they drive up to the grandma's house and collect money and stuff. That— there are— there have been cases where people have been arrested for doing that in the US, and they're US citizens.

Well, let's talk about— so we got the players, the room. Let's talk about the tools.

Yeah.

No, I know that, you know, going through the outline, there was Voice recognition stuff. You had talked about them accessing cameras. They got access to your computers. What social media platforms are they using? Like, what is— what are the tools that they're using to do this?

You want it from their side to us or our side to them?

Their side to us.

Okay, their side to us. So it all starts with how they find their victims. So that's the first thing, data breaches. That's like the source of a lot of pain nowadays. So there's data brokers that are out there that buy and sell our information.

This is marketing. This is marketing companies.

That's very nice of you to call it marketing.

What else do you call it?

We just had data brokers.

Are you familiar with Byron Tao? I just had him on earlier this week.

Yeah.

And he wrote, he wrote a book on all this stuff. And so And we were talking about the sale of data.

Yeah.

And how you can get a whole block for like $2,500.

Yes.

That's how this shit's happening.

That's one of the ways. Yes. And I don't think it's very fair that someone can buy and sell my data without my, hey, you can do that. I allow you to buy and sell my data. So these scammers, they obviously, they're like a good old boy group kind of where they pass along data themselves and there'll be these huge spreadsheets that have 100,000 people in them. And then what they'll do is they have— they use— I told you earlier, they use our tools against us. So they create Amazon Web instances, like cloud instances, virtual machines. They log into them and they have programmed some type of a tool that will mass email. They send out these mass emails to this list of 100,000 people. I mean, it could be millions of people. It doesn't matter. But they send this email out and the email is like, hey, we're Amazon. You've been charged for an iPhone for $1,500. You need to call this number if it wasn't you. So that's the beginning of it. And the other thing that they're really good about doing is sending these mass emails out. You would think, well, wouldn't Google stop this?

Wouldn't Gmail stop this? And the fact of the matter is, is like their spam protection's always been really bad. It just has for years, like years and years. Really, really bad. So these scammers know how to get around all the spam protection, and they're literally sending PDF files, which is crazy to me because they're not malicious anyway. But on the inside, it's malicious, if that makes sense.

Mm-hmm.

And that just goes to show that because Google's scanning files that are being sent. So if you send a virus to someone in email, it's going to get scanned and say, hey, this is a malicious file. But if you send a PDF that's a phishing PDF, they will never know the difference.

So we have to click on a link inside the PDF? No, you just open the PDF.

You open the PDF on your computer or your phone and it says it looks like whatever, Norton, or it looks like Amazon or PayPal. A lot of the big ones, PayPal, they pretend to be. They try to hit ones that everybody has, right? And then this is just one of the ways they hit people. And then the grandma sees that and they're like, I didn't buy— a lot of times they'll say that you bought a gun and that gives people this like negative reaction. I didn't buy a gun. What are you talking about? And then you call them up and that's where the scam starts. It's not them calling you anymore, it's you calling them.

So opening the PDF file doesn't give them access. All right, I about shit my pants because I just did this.

That can happen.

Oh, great.

Yeah, there was—

yeah, there's— Did it. And then the follow-up, oh, my email got hacked. I hope anybody— and I'm like, shit, I just changed the password. I don't know what else to do.

2-factor helps as well. Okay. Like, I would use an authenticator application to run 2-factor. That's really helpful.

I do that on everything.

Instead of using a cell phone, like you get the code texted to you. Use the app instead because those numbers, those tokens, they're called tokens. They're constantly rolling and changing.

Okay.

People can do like SIM swapping if they really want to get someone. They could get access to an email, do SIM swapping, and be able to intercept essentially your 2-factor. Like if Gmail sent you a 2-factor code, they could intercept it.

Okay.

So they pay people at the cell companies to like give access to accounts. It's so ridiculous. These are the things that, like, what do you do to stop all this? Honestly, where does it go? Because these guys are buying your data. They're sending these mass emails out. Everyone uses Gmail. And Gmail's not stopped. I see the emails happen all the time. So Gmail's not stopping it. And then grandma calls up. And what happens is then the scammers use free software to access the victim's computer, or they'll use— there's a thing called Quick Assist that's within Microsoft's operating system. It's literally installed on everyone's computer, so you already have a backdoor in. And they say, go to Quick Assist and tell us the code, and then within 30 seconds they're on the victim's computer, and then they're starting to load all their other software on the victim's computer that they'll be able to see them without ever knowing. ever again. And that's outside of even running the scam. They just have access forever. I watch them all the time going into people's computers to steal money. We do everything we can to stop it. I want your audience to know, like, whenever we see something, we don't just, like, let it go.

But the sheer number of, like, it's like worse than whack-a-mole. There's lots of moles popping up out of the ground, and you're constantly trying to stop this. It's so exhausting. So they connect in, they use a tool to remotely access. A lot of times it's within. And the reason why I'm saying within Microsoft, right, if they have a Windows computer, the reason why I'm saying that is because that's not malicious. Like, they're using tactics that in cybersecurity, a hacker would use something non-malicious on a computer so it doesn't get, you know, it doesn't hit antivirus, for instance. So if you load a piece of malware, antivirus, hey, this is malware. If you load a remote tool that is not malicious inherently, it's not used to do malicious things, then Microsoft's like, oh yeah, go ahead and use that, even though it's being used right now for something malicious.

Mm-hmm.

That's why it's very difficult to stop these scams, because none of this stuff looks at behavior. This all looks like security is like, is this good or bad? If it's good, let it happen. If it's bad, stop it.

So they're getting people to download an actual tool.

Yep.

And then they're in.

And then they're in and forever. Forever cannot— well, we can uninstall it, but the regular person cannot uninstall it. And I don't want to say remote tools are malware. I'm not saying that. But when they're using it in the sense of malware, in the way of always having access. So they do that, and then they are literally sitting at the victim's computer screen watching, listening. They open up the victim's webcams constantly to watch them and see who they are dealing with. They take screenshots of the victim's bank accounts. They steal their passwords. They steal— they will even go as far as adding their email to the person's Gmail. So anytime they got an email, it gets forwarded to them.

Wow.

They will create crypto accounts, they'll create LLCs, create bank accounts. And this is all in addition to the actual scam they're trying to do where they, um, try to steal everything out of their account. Not only do they want to steal their account, they want to steal their identity too. That's where I'm seeing— and it's— that's really where it's getting bad now, to steal someone's identity.

Shit.

We've been watching.

How long do these people stalk their victims before they pull the trigger, before they make a move?

Um, they, they hit the same day. Um, but what they will do is they'll have a list of 1,500 victims on their software, and it'll be 3 in the morning. And if they see— they can see anyone who's online. If they see someone online, they'll right-click and hit join. And they'll join into that computer and that person's asleep or something or whatever. And then they'll just start roaming through the computer. They'll look at their photos, they'll open up personal tax documents, they'll download them, they'll screenshot them, they'll go through email accounts. They know everything about the person if they want to. They'll go to Amazon. That's one of the first things. They'll go to Amazon, start buying gift cards, and they're all electronic gift cards so you can steal it really easily. I was telling you earlier, They can turn gift cards into crypto in seconds and it's gone. And that I didn't even tell you about the scam. This is just the access that they have. It's so ridiculous to me the damage they can do to people. There's a homeless guy that one of these scammers are dealing with right now. He doesn't have a job and they've started an LLC and they've created— made him create multiple bank accounts.

And they're going to start laundering money through his name and paying him a cut.

Holy shit.

Nobody knows what's going on except for us, I guess.

Can you go through some— let's just stop— start with some of the most common scams. Yeah, I want to go into detail, though.

Sure.

How they're, how they're doing it. We've talked about, you know, the bank account one where— but I mean, we're talking about people that are, you know, the, the, you know, pretending to be their son, how they rip their voice off, all that kind of stuff. Can you go in?

Yeah.

To some of those?

Yeah, I know, I know that one's like a really interesting one to people because, um, one of the things they do is they'll spoof the phone numbers and then they'll also— the biggest problem is we put everything online. Everyone wants some hit of some dopamine hit of people liking their stuff or, oh, I'm so jealous you went on this great vacation. But little do you know that there's out of your 20,000 followers, 10,000 of them are probably scammers and they're looking at your stories and the pictures you're posting. And if you post a video, they're ripping your audio and you could take a sample of your audio and create You could go to ElevenLabs and I could be you. There's scammers that pretend to be me constantly. They take a video of me and it looks like I'm in my office and I'm talking to someone and it looks and sounds like me, but it's not. So they're doing this and these are really targeted attacks. Just like there's so many parallels between cybersecurity and the enterprise world that I lived in and scamming because, for instance, Give you an example. You have someone on LinkedIn, for instance, that is a cybersecurity.

I'm a I'm a SOC, which is security operations center. I'm a SOC engineer for a big company, and they will put in all the stuff they use at this huge company. I use this tool. I use this tool. I use this tool, and I went to Florida State, and I love their football team, and I love shooting guns, and I all these things, all this information because everybody wants their information out there for whatever reason. They want the likes and all that stuff. And then a hacker in the enterprise space says, I want to go after that company because I want their data. So I'm going to attack this SOC engineer that has told me all the software that they use and all of his specific likes of what he does and stuff. So I'm going to craft something to target and attack this person to be able to gain access to his system, to their network, whatever. And it works a lot of times. Hackers will create— they call them sandboxes, and they will try to create malware and 0 days that will bypass a network firewall or an endpoint security tool. Not going to name any names of any security companies or anything like that, but just because you have XYZ company doesn't mean you're safe because you have the human element.

And that's what hackers do, and that's what scammers do. So now we talk about that where they target attacks on people. Same goes for scammers. They see all your stuff on social media, all your videos and all these things. Grandma with her grandchildren. So now Grandma knows that she's got 12 grandchildren and all the names of them and what they look like and where they live and all the audio of them. And yeah, it's sick and disgusting. They could take audio of anyone and say, oh my gosh, I'm in trouble. They're about to do something to me. And the panicked voice and all this stuff. And it's AI, and it's a guy on the other side pretending to be a grandma's daughter, and she's in trouble and someone's holding her captive or something, and she has to give money to save her daughter. And it's all technology scammers in another country trying to get you to send them money, and a lot of money too.

Shit. What else?

So that's like the— that's that like deepfaking AI. I think there's going to be a lot of like sextortion that's going to be happening in the future. Like teens are not like, you know, like kids that are on social media and things like that. There's been cases of kids losing their— taking their lives because they're getting sextorted for money. And that's something we have to figure out really quickly. And there's actual call centers in like Africa that are doing this. And there are a few guys that were extradited for the death of a Michigan teenager who took his life. They were extradited to the US and are facing charges for that guy because these scammers, they— once they get a little bit of hit of money, they will continue on. $300, $500, $1,000. And what they'll do is they'll say, hey, you need to take your life. because of what you've done, because we're going to send this out to everybody unless you send us more money. And then you have a teenager that has no money. Where did they go? They're too ashamed to tell their parents. That's a whole nother conversation. Why are teenagers afraid to talk to their parents anyway?

What's going on in our families? What's going on in our households? Where's the faith? Where's community? Where's any of the stuff? We have kids that are running away to technology, and they're getting extorted and losing their lives. Like, it's just, it's crazy. So there's that side. There's the grandma scam. There's also like the pig butchering scams. Are you familiar with these?

No.

It's literally the name, pig butchering. It's the idea is there's various forms of them. But one I'll tell you is you have someone that is on, let's just say Facebook, and they see an ad for making money. For getting a job, they click on the ad and they start talking to someone on WhatsApp. They put their information in, someone messages them, and this person's a successful entrepreneur. They're an investor in crypto, and they show them the photos of how much money they make, and they show their bank accounts, and they show the returns, and they're like, "Hey, I could do this. I could do this with you too." All you got to start is with this much money, and $150, $100. Person that wants to make a bunch of money because they may not have a bunch, they give $150. That person who's built the rapport, the scammer built the rapport with the victim. Oh my gosh, you've made $1,000 on that $150. Look in your— look in this account. It's a website that they create and they spoof it all. So that $150 now is, what is it, $1,150. And that person's excited. Sometimes they can even take the cash out.

And then they're like, hey, you should put in some more money. So now they feel a bit more emboldened and they put in more money, and then that money is made more. And they're like, don't you have more money in your accounts? This is really hot. Crypto's taken off.

I was just talking to the sheriff's department, um, a couple months ago here, and they were telling me about this exact scam. It's going viral in this county.

Yep. It's happening everywhere. And people— it's people that want to make money fast. And then all of a sudden they put everything in. And what happens is they freeze the funds, but there is no funds. You're just sending money to someone. And then at the end they're like, listen, to get your $150,000 out that you earned, you've got to give us taxes or whatever. They never get the money. And then after a while they're like, oh, I've been scammed. And it's playing on our— like, it's not necessarily greed. It's like people trying to make ends meet.

Yeah.

Yeah. And that's pig butchering. But I had a guy, I was at the local dump dropping off. I feel like I'm such an old man now. Like, but I like find happiness in like going to the dump and like, like, you know, we have like boxes of Amazon boxes, like recycling them versus like waiting for the trash guy to come. Like, I drive to the dump, like it makes me feel good when my garage is clean and stuff. So like, I was at the dump and this guy is staring at me and I'm like dropping off boxes. It's not like a place you have conversations.

Mm-hmm.

Like, it's not you and me sitting here, like, having a talk. Like, I'm at the dump. Like, there's flies and stuff. Like, you know, this guy's staring at me and he's like, he's a YouTube guy, whatever. I'm like, yes. And he got pig butchering scam, $550,000. He lost. He lost everything.

Shit.

People are willing to lose everything because they're, like, afraid of missing out on this. Like, whether it's crypto or whatever. And they're so easily manipulated by numbers and screens.

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And again, this isn't— this is like Instantly gone. The way that the scammers make people move money, it's instantly gone. It's very scary. And that's a huge— that's where you'll see a lot of Chinese and Eastern European scammers. They love playing in that realm. There's also European scammers that pretend to be companies like Robinhood and Coinbase, and they'll call people up that they know somehow have accounts, and they'll call up and say there's a problem with their account. And when you start dealing with crypto, man, it goes so fast. And I'm not saying it's untraceable, but it goes— they're good about moving money, man, especially when you're using crypto. So those are some of those. There's also the romance scam. Always makes me laugh, man. Like, we had the landlord of our office building was telling me a story. I won't go too deep on personal of it, but he had a family member that thought she was talking to a country music star and had been sending, like, I think it was $150,000 or $190,000 to this guy and buying phones and shipping them and helping him write a new album. And I'm pretty sure the artist was Garth Brooks, by the way.

I don't think he needs a grandma to seed his next album. You know what I mean? There's also a lady that was in— I think she was in France, and she was being romance scammed by Brad Pitt, and she left her husband and had transferred almost $1 million to Brad Pitt that was in the hospital. And they were using AI and sending photos. You might have to look up these photos, like the AI photos of Brad Pitt in the hospital. And this woman is leaving her husband too, and she got a lot of shame for it because it went viral. She was leaving her husband for this guy, for Brad Pitt, and sending all their money to him. But what happens is these scammers, they—

Holy shit.

Yeah, they find their victims on Facebook. these lonely people on Facebook, on Instagram, and it is not the person on the other side who you think you're talking to is not the person, dude. It's like the dead internet theory where like the idea that like 99% of the internet is just like all bots and like scammers and stuff. And it's not real. Like people we're talking to in the comments, it's not real.

Dude, I mean, I remember This is a long time. This isn't a scam.

Okay.

So I don't think it's a scam, but I had a really good friend and he would, he would like sell all this shit on Facebook Marketplace.

Yeah.

And he would just, he would get a picture of some cute girl showing some cleavage or whatever, and that would be the profile.

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

He would sell all this shit, but that would be the profile.

Yeah.

And so it would always be guys that were buying all this shit. And then he would— he would be the one that meets them.

And then he would actually meet them?

Yeah, he would. He was just selling his shit. He wasn't scamming anybody. I guess he was. I guess he was scamming. But, you know, they'd go to buy whatever, a new couch or I don't know, whatever the hell he's selling. Yeah. And they'd be like, oh, where's Carly? And he'd be like, oh, that's my sister.

There you go.

And I'm like, are you sure?

That is amazing.

And he was like, yeah, dude.

He was like, It works every time. That's marketing though. I mean, it's hilarious. I don't think there's anything in the TOS about that.

I mean, it's— I think it's hilarious.

We live in a— again, I know everyone's talked about this, but that speaks to like, we live in such a connected world, but like also a disconnected world where everybody wants this. And I tell like a lot of my friends, I don't have many friends anymore. Like as you get older, your friend circle like becomes like one person. Because you can't like trust anybody, you know?

Oh, I know. It's like, well, especially with, with, with what you do.

Yeah.

And what you can bring people and, you know.

Yeah. It's, it's like you, it's your, your identity kind of to other people becomes like what you do or whatever on the internet versus like, and you're always talking about it and you're like, I have other things, man.

It's lonely, man.

Yeah.

It's lonely.

And what, like, How do you deal with that? Um, my wife has grounded me a lot, like centered me in like what's the most important things in my life. I get to talk with her about and run by her. And my faith is the thing that sustains and has taught me so much Bible. I had no idea I grew up in church. I had no freaking idea some of these things I've learned over the past couple years.

Are you just always on Bible? Yeah. Are you always on guard?

I have the type of— I don't know if it's ADHD or something, but like where you're like a little paranoid. And with people too, it's like—

With meeting new people? Yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting at. How do you, how do you figure out I mean, you got, what, close to 10 million subs?

Yeah.

And everybody knows who you are.

Yeah.

A lot of people want something from you.

Yeah.

How do you figure out if they're genuine or not?

Do you have a checklist? Yeah. I mean, we never, like, we never allow anyone— like, I had a guy, a guy at like Whole Foods, like, oh, I can do the best voices. Let me come by your office and like, I can be in a video. And I'm like, No, like, you're not. I appreciate it, dude. Like, I appreciate that you want to be in a video, but like, I don't even know who you are, man. Like, I'm sitting with my son, like, getting food. Like, we're eating a pizza together. And it's like, you know, like, my friends from, like, high school and stuff, they know what I do and they're pretty chill about it, you know? And but I don't— it's not like a badge of honor that, like, I want to, like, come back and prove to everyone, like, what I do now. And like, with people that see me, like, we're very, like, private, I guess. My wife And it's almost like anyone that's outside of the orbit, like, you just— I don't want to say you can't trust, but you can't really trust anyone outside of the orbit. You have to have a small circle.

And, um, yeah, like, I hate that. I hate being distrusting of the world and, like, having that viewpoint. Like, because, like, I, I have to, like, go by a pseudonym, you know? Like, I have to—

Yeah.

I have to be careful. Have blue hair. I had blue hair for 5 years. Like that's not who I am. Like, and then you like lose track of yourself. You lose track of your actual identity, and like you almost like start to separate yourself from like this online persona and then who you really are. And as I have come back more into alignment with that, and understanding the true like values in my heart, what I believe in my faith and things like that, the most important things that stand out is like faith in my family and. Other people. Nobody can do anything for me. Nobody can do something like what— nobody can give me something, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

But I do want true connection with people. I, I really— I, I'm like thirsty for true connection. Someone that believes the same things I believe, that like has honesty and integrity and family-based. Like, where is that? That's Where is that in the world? We've kind of started to see a little bit of people going more towards that again.

It's tough, man. It's something I struggle with all the time as well. You know, I do have kind of a checklist, but I don't want to— I don't really want to go through it here because—

That's fair. Yeah, there's someone writing. Almost everybody will fit the checklist. But I mean, if nobody wants something, if someone doesn't want something from me, I'm very happy. Like, Yeah. They don't want me to— they just want to know me for who I am and not what I do.

You know, I mean, we're kind of— one thing that I find really interesting is, I mean, you have a lot to offer people.

Yeah.

I have a lot to offer people. I know that. I know there's a lot of, you know, even if they don't know they want something, they want— they don't know what it is yet. They'll— they just want to keep you around for when they do figure out what they want from you.

Yeah, the proximity.

You're a piece of meat.

Yeah.

To, I don't know what percentage of the population, a lot of it, vast majority of it, I get the feeling. And, you know, but we talk about faith and then you talk about Christ. And a lot of people, I mean, what you do, what I do, what any, you know, doesn't compare to what Christ could do.

100%.

They're healing the blind, driving demons out of like, yeah, ultimate salvation and, you know, healing the sick. And so could you imagine how many people were trying to climb up him, you know, yanking.

Yeah.

Picking at his ankles, trying to— and so, you know, what I, what I always wonder is, like, when I do feel like that, because there are so many people that want something, even— but most of it's, it's vanity shit that they want, right?

Yeah.

But, like, how did he deal with it?

Prayer, humility.

But he didn't shut everybody out.

No, he was so accessible.

That's what you're kind of saying you do. I, I'm guilty of it.

Yeah.

You know, there's the minute I get an inkling of, you don't actually care who I am, you just want vanity shit for yourself, which is, you know, 99% of the pop, unfortunately. Just, it is what it is.

Yeah.

But, you know, I always think about that. And I have these discussions with my wife all the time. I'm like, what? Like, how did— like, I'm not— I'm not comparing me or you or anybody that's in this sphere to Christ.

Yeah.

Like, I'm not. It's nothing. Zero in comparison. But like, how did he deal with the feelings?

You know what I mean?

Because take whatever me and you are experiencing And multiply that times, I don't know, infinity.

Yeah.

Like, how did he deal with it?

Yeah, like, when I think about it, it's almost like—

How did he know who to trust?

I mean, he was betrayed by one of his 12.

I know. And he knew he was going to be betrayed though.

Yeah.

But how did he— how— like, I just, I just, I've never heard a great answer. Have you ever thought about that?

Like, I think that, like, If I— one of the things I'm trying to take with my life is if I'm living to my true values and my core values of who I believe that God's created me to be, that the right people that are in my life will be there. Like, I will have discernment. My wife has great discernment about people. I talk with her about a lot of different things, and I run things by her. So I think that's one of the greatest assets is to have a spouse and a partner that you can talk with and that has the same belief system as you. So if it's something that's funky, that's out of the ordinary with that, we'll get in agreement on something. Oh, that's wrong. That seems off or whatever. I think that, again, if I'm true to myself and I'm living the way that, like, again, God has created me to live, that the right people will come into my life. And it doesn't have to be a number of people. I don't have to have 50 friends. But if there's people that I can have true connection with, like true connection with me is like, dude, I'm having a really terrible day.

I need, I need someone to pray for me right now. Like I, I, um, I've done that multiple times. Like I feel physically really terrible and I never get sick anymore, but I had a bout where I started to feel really bad and it almost felt like a demonic attack or something because this was— I haven't been sick in like years and I used to get sick all the time. And I, and when I kind of got born again, or when I did get born again and started to really live in the Spirit, it was like I lived in like divine health for years. And, um, but anyway, an example is like, I, again, calling someone up and saying, hey, can you pray for me, man? I, I need prayer. And knowing that that person's praying for me, they send me a voice memo with the prayer or whatever it may be. And I don't need anything from them. They don't need anything from me. It's just that connection. It's the vulnerability, man.

Yeah.

Being vulnerable with somebody and they're holding that space. And, um, you know that it's not like going to be posted somewhere or whatever. And that's hard, dude. Like, like you're saying, Jesus, like one of his 12 betrayed him. And I almost feel like the disciples even were like, they kind of got caught up in like the hysteria of things. Like, you know, oh, we can go do these things. We can go, you know, heal people. We can go cast out demons.

Yeah.

This is kind of cool. And even one of the times too, they're like, why can't we do it right now? I thought you said we could. They went to Jesus and they're like, we can't get the demon out of this person. You know, 'cause they were kind of expecting it at one point. So I think with Jesus, like the humility that he had, he had accessibility, but also humility at the same time. We're just not, we were not meant to be doing these things. I don't think at this level we weren't meant to have this many eyeballs on us.

Mm-hmm.

And comments constantly. Comments, people commenting on how we look, on how we talked or whatever, constantly critiquing. Like, it's tough for the soul. It's tough for the mind. These things have neurological impacts, like the way if you hold on to something and think about it and ruminate what somebody said about you on the internet. We're not built for this. May not be the best answer, but again, I think Jesus, he spent a lot of time with his Father, and I think that's what like Christians don't do. We spend time with scrolling on the phone a lot of times.

Mm-hmm.

And that's where I have a lot of problems with the current church is we're just like a Sunday, check it off, and then go have brunch, and then just live life Monday through Saturday, and then come back with the same problems and get a little hit of dopamine. Everyone's obsessed with dopamine hits versus true connection, man. You can't have connection with other people if you don't have connection with God.

How do you connect with God?

Lower myself. I pray to him. I've been practicing praying in tongues, which is like a spiritual—

What is that?

Like a spiritual language, says in the Bible. It's like a language that— it's a way to speak to God without— like, essentially, it's where the devil can't understand. So if you're a born-again Christian, with, um, the Bible talks about how we receive our spirit, gets like intertwined with God's Spirit, and we become a new spirit. We're a new creation. And when I talk about creation, it's like our spirit is new. So we're made in God's image. And tell me if I'm going too far onto this, but—

Oh man, I'm listening. I'm here for it.

We're created in God's image where we are a spirit, right? Like, if we die, our spirit goes somewhere. I believe that firmly because that's part of God's image, a spirit with a body and a soul. And when you're born again, Jesus was telling Nicodemus, like, you have to be born twice. You're born of the water, then born of the Spirit. And Nicodemus was like, what do you mean born twice? Like, I got to go back in my mother's womb? And, you know, Because people then didn't understand they were living in an old covenant with God, and Jesus is the example of a brand-new covenant that he created. He was the last Adam, created a new covenant. So one of the things that in Acts, they were speaking in other tongues essentially when the Holy Spirit came upon them, and for me tongues is like a very interesting thing because it's like almost like gibberish, right? But the idea is that when you're Praying to God in tongues, it's a spiritual conversation that you're having with God, and your spirit is connecting with him and talking, and you're making like a groan, you're making a noise, you're speaking in something that's— you can't understand what it even is, but it's a way, it's a faith-based thing.

You're doing it out of faith.

Do you know what it is?

No.

You don't know what it is? Are you receiving?

Because if my mind understands what I'm saying, it's flesh. It's my flesh talking. And I'm just like saying words. I can pray to God, right? I can pray to God normally. Hey God, like, I worship you. Thank you so much. Right? I can speak normally, but there's this other thing that I've been practicing is praying in this other way to God through speaking in tongues. It's a very uncomfortable thing, but it's something that is in the Bible. I firmly believe everything in the Bible should be practiced in the New Covenant I'm talking about. So for all the heresy people out there that are like, well, what about this? They try to strawman things out. But with regard to speaking tongues, it's something that's been very tough for me to do, but I'm doing it out of faith because I want my spirit to connect to God.

Where do you do it?

Quiet place by myself. It's not for other people to see. There are examples where pastors, I guess, in the Bible, or however the best way to say it, they would speak in tongues and you have to translate it. So that the congregation— that's like if you're doing like a message, but mine is so I can connect with God. I pray with him. I thank him, um, from my inner— you know, the Bible says that we receive a heart of flesh. It goes from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh, and that's really like Jesus is all about matters of the heart and how we do things. When we give to other people, where's our heart behind it? Like the woman that gave She had no money but gave like pennies in the synagogue, in the temple. And Jesus was like, look at her faith. She gave everything and she had nothing. So he looks at the matters of the heart. So that's why I say like the praying in tongues is a way to connect to God. And it's— he's— I want him to see my faith and like understand my faith of I'm doing this out of faith because I want to connect with him so badly.

So like, what's going on in your mind when you do that? Like, that's what, that's what I'm asking. Like, are you like, do you have an intention when you do it?

Yeah.

Are you receiving thoughts when you do it? Is it both? Is it send and receive?

Yeah, I think like some people, some people, they like pastors and ministers, stuff like that, that do this. They like, oh, I got a download or whatever. I'm not trying to receive anything from God. It's a way for me to connect to him. And there will be times like even during the day when I'm working on my channel, where I will get a download of an idea, and it is not something I'm actively thinking about. It just comes to my mind. So this connection with God, I don't connect with God to get YouTube ideas. It's just an example of he gives me revelation on things to do, how to live my life, I guess.

And well, I mean, that's— I mean, yeah, I know. Like, I get you're not connecting with God to get YouTube ideas, but do you— I mean, you know, like at the beginning of this, I can't even remember if we were talking on or off camera.

Yeah.

And if you don't want this in there, let me know. But it kind of seems to me like you're at a crossroads. Like, should I continue this or like dive 100% into faith? Or am I supposed to be doing this? And I think about that shit all the time.

Yeah.

And Like all the— every day.

Yeah.

Like, should I quit? Should you stop doing this?

You know?

And then I'm like, what good is this pumping into the world?

Yeah.

Is it pumping good into the world? There's a lot of things that I've done that I thought were good that now I look back and I'm like, that probably— like, that was not— that was— I wasn't supposed to be doing that.

Yeah.

You know, especially like I had a time where— and I'm just coming out of it— where I got like really political and uncovered a lot of corruption. Like, did that really— did that actually accomplish anything, or did that just spin everybody up and get everybody to hate each other even more?

Yeah.

You know, by— and so I'm injecting my own experiences in here, but like, I'm always looking for a way to just be guided, you know? Like, how, how, how do I find that? And I've never I've never actually talked to anybody that's tried speaking in tongues to God. One thing that's been coming up, uh, on my radar a lot is like, hey, I used to be into the psychedelic therapy shit.

Yeah.

And, uh, now I'm not. I had like a total demonic experience.

Yeah.

It lasted for— I subs— like, I think it's almost gone, but it's been 2 months of like demonic attacks and shit, like really dark shit, like crazy shit happening. And, and, and so now like these things keep, uh, I keep getting hit by all these different people who are not connected to each other. Like, that would be like, like if you— one is fasting.

Mhm.

One is fasting. And so I've, I've done like a 72-hour fast.

Wow.

Recently, done a 48-hour fast.

What did that do for you when you fasted?

I'm going to be honest. I did it because I wanted to connect because I had all this demonic shit happening to me and I wanted to connect and be as pure as possible. At the same time, I launched this new company, which took up a lot more headspace than I kind of thought it was going to. And, and so I probably wasn't prepared to receive. And the other is, and I haven't done this yet, is these silent, silent retreats. Have you heard about this?

Mm-hmm.

So you go to a place and you don't talk. And there's other people there, but you do not talk.

Okay.

And so a lot of people do it for all kinds of different amounts of times. But, and so all I kept getting hit about, like, people just not random, they would be like friends of mine, which I'm like, you have a very small circle. But, but friends and acquaintances who don't know each other, you know, like that synchronicity. They would bring— yeah, basically synchronicities. And, and it would be like, like this guy would be talking about fasting, and then, and then I might— like my chiropractor the next day, like this guy lives in Virginia Beach, now I'm at my local chiropractor and he randomly brings up fasting. And then I go to Mass. I'm Catholic. And like, the priest will come— random, random conversation will come up about fasting. And I'm like, what is going on, dude? Like, that's just 3 days in a row. Yeah. And the same was happening with the silent retreats. Like, I'm up in Maine doing a podcast, and this guy tells me about—

So you just like don't talk?

You don't talk.

That would be really hard for me.

See, I think it would be great. It's the thing I'm looking forward to the most. It's carving out the time to do it. But I feel like I'm supposed to combine these 2 and do like a 7-day fast and a 7-day no talking. And, you know, some of them you go to and, and you do it at like a monastery or whatever, you know, some type of a church retreat. And, and, and you have like a spiritual guide there that will— you go over scripture with you a little bit every day and you can talk there. I don't know what I— I don't know. Part of me was like, I don't know if I even want that. I don't know if I want any man influencing me during this. Oh, so you don't— And like total solitude out. Maybe, maybe, I don't know, maybe I go pitch a tent somewhere for a week and Not eat and not talk and just—

There's some people that eat the word. You know what I mean?

The word.

That's what it says. Eat the word.

And, and see what, what happens. I don't know what will happen, but I know a lot of people have had amazing experiences doing that. And, and I, I just, I want to try it for myself. But, you know, you have to prepare for this kind of stuff and be in the right headspace. like you're talking about it with the tongue stuff. How long have you been doing that?

Um, about like a year now, probably maybe a year and a half. Um, I— there's some things that are like unavoidable. Like speaking in tongues was something I was— I thought it was like crazy. And about 2 and a half years ago, I started really diving into the Bible and learning about the full gospel and what it means. And there's things that I would shake my head, no, no, like, and then there's other things I'm like, I didn't even know that was in there. I didn't know the literal word said this. And there's so much infighting in the realm of Christianity anyway about what is allowed. And like, oh, this was just that time in first century time, and this was allegory, and you're not allowed to be able to do this. You're not like— but Jesus was such a disruptor.

Yeah.

And he is our example. He is our high priest. He is our— he is going on behalf of us to the Father every single day with the sprinkled blood of his, that we plead the blood of Jesus to be able to even have access to God, which is incredible in and of itself. And then to think about that he, even before he saved us, went to the whipping post to be beaten for our actual healing. By his stripes we are healed. Um, it says in Isaiah, by his stripes we are healed. By his stripes we were healed in 1 Peter chapter 2, which kind of cool. You have the Old Testament, New Testament, you know, talking about each other. And, but even before him saving us, he actually went to the whipping post. That shows how much he wanted us to be healed and live in like healing and live in health. Yeah. Like mental health, physical health. And I started reading about this and I'm like, that's unavoidable. And once I started to believe in that, like, again, I never got sick for like 3 years. I finally recently got sick, but I don't know, it's because I wasn't sleeping much or something.

You know, like there's some things that are— you have to do on earth to live healthy— vitamins and exercise and sleep and all that stuff. But tongues was like one of the things, man. Like, one was like laying hands on people. And I'm like, I cannot do that, man. That's very embarrassing. What if something doesn't happen? Like, but the Bible says the believers— believers, it doesn't say apostles, it doesn't say disciples, it says believers will lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. And I had somebody at church come up to me and ask me to lay hands on them because they They had a baby, they were pregnant, and they had a bad diagnosis of their baby in the womb was having issues, and they were about to go to the doctor. And I know the verse that believers will lay hands on the sick and they will recover. And I was telling them about that. They're like, well, will you lay hands? And I said, yeah, I'll lay hands and pray. And I did, and a week later they came back to church the next Sunday, and it was a completely different diagnosis.

I am not an apostle. I'm not a minister. I'm not anything. I'm a believer in Jesus, and I did what the Bible— you're supposed to be doers of the Word, not hearers. And ever since that, I was like, you know, I'm going to keep trying to do this tongues thing to try to get closer to God. Whatever that means, man, I'm open. I don't know what that means. I don't know. It's not a feeling. It's not goosebumps. It's like, if anything, if Jesus actually— the Bible says that Jesus is actually pleased. The only thing he's pleased about is our faith in him. That's the only thing that pleases him.

Mm-hmm.

So if I'm doing something in the quiet of myself that nobody sees to be able to bring like some type of connection to him, I will do it. to honor him. And something that, like praying in tongues, that I'm not very good at. And I thank my wife because she encourages me a lot with that. And we get to run stuff by each other all the time. It's really cool. I'm very thankful.

She do it?

Oh, yeah.

She's been doing it longer than you?

Yeah. And we just started studying the Bible together a lot. and learning about deliverance, healing, the power of our words. I started getting into quantum physics and how quantum physics and science is starting to actually show that the Bible is real.

How so?

Just like even we're talking about synchronicity, like a lot of New Agers— there's a New Ager guy, his name is Joe Dispenza. He does I think he's like a neuroscientist now, but he does like seminars where he is. Yeah. And he talks about neuroscience and people, people are getting healed at his conferences from cancer and all sorts of different things. He's not a Christian, but he talks a lot about quantum physics and neuroscience. And, and, you know, his thing is like you believe in some kind of future state and you bring it in like when you do meditation and all these kinds of manifesting.

Manifesting.

One of the things that Jesus did is he called things that were not as though they were. That's in the Bible. He called things that were not as though they were. And Jesus understood because all things were created by him and for him, the Bible says. Jesus holds the framework of the world together. He created everything. It was all created for Jesus. And if I believe that, that Jesus created everything, then all the systems of the earth, he created everything. So when science comes up with something, Jesus created that before science figured it out. So when I hear about someone being able to call something, I'm not saying like name it and claim it. Oh, I want a Ferrari. Gosh, I'm going to manifest a Ferrari. I'm not sitting here talking about that. I'm talking about matters of the heart. Like the lepers in the temple, the 10 lepers. I'm sure you heard of that story where they had leprosy and they were with Jesus and they couldn't see the high priest. They couldn't even be in there because they had leprosy. They're not allowed to be in the temple. And he sent all 10 of them, like, go see the high priest.

And all of them were healed, but one of them came back to report. But He, he said that their faith is what healed them because they went, even though they, they didn't see them healed, right? They saw the leprosy, they saw their current state, but they went to a future state. They went in a healed state. They walked in faith in a healed state is what I'm getting at. So when I think about like quantum physics, I think about like electromagnetic energy. Like when we think thoughts, there's electromagnetic energy that, that's released when we speak words. There's electromagnetic energy that's released. There's things that are happening in the spiritual realm, in the physical realm, when we talk, when we think, when we act. So I firmly believe in all that. When I think about, like, Joe Dispenza, a guy like I said, for instance, he is having people meditate and think on things and speak on things, and he's actually opening portals up. And he's— I watched one of his videos where he said, like, oh, if something— when you're in this thing, it's like 3 in the morning, and Something comes to you and talks to you, talk back to it.

What do you think that is? Just because people are getting healed doesn't mean it's of Christ. They're utilizing the world infrastructure that Jesus made, just like scammers use the infrastructure against us. These people are using the infrastructure to get healed. And the book of John, or Jesus talks about this specifically, and he says, if you go through the wrong door, you're a thief. If you're doing these things the wrong way, you're a thief. If you go through my door, I'll be your shepherd. So it's all a matter of— it doesn't mean, well, how are these people getting healed? It's because they're doing it the wrong way. Doesn't mean it can't be done. You have to do it through Jesus is what I'm getting at. So all the science, all this— people call it manifestation, things that they're doing— it all points back to Jesus, though. These New Age type things that are happening, it's all like It all points back to Jesus. Jesus is the number one healer, the number one provider, the number one Savior.

I've read, you know, when you pray, you should pray as if it's already happened.

Yes. Yes, we do not pray— it's the new covenant we have with Jesus. The old covenant was like you're doing sacrifices and all this stuff to burn off all your sins, essentially. And you're having to do all these things with a God of like, he's providing— it's almost like vengeance and stuff, right? Like we're putting plagues on people and all these kinds of things, and we're having to do all these sacrifices to please God and do all these things to please him. And Jesus, that's why they didn't like him, because he flipped it all on its head. And he's like, no, it's not about that anymore. You guys will see it's not about— I am the sacrifice now. I am doing it. The work is done. It is finished with him. There is nothing else. So when we pray to God now, we are thanking him because of all the things that Jesus did. We are thanking him for things. We are calling, like, thank you that Jesus, like, he gave us peace that surpasses all understanding. Thank you for that. We don't have to ask God for peace. We literally have the Holy Spirit in us.

You don't have to ask for these things. They are supposed to be manifesting within us and coming out of us. Because we have that spirit. We don't need to be calling down God. He's already within us if we believe that. If you don't believe that, you're not going to have that. If you do believe it, you already have it here. We have it. The Bible says it very clearly.

Do you think you get access to the kingdom, to heaven, just by believing?

And believing in what?

In Christ. Do you think it's that simple?

If you call on the name of Jesus and you believe in your heart, you will be saved. I believe, again, though, these are matters of the heart and not the matters of the mind. That's the hard part. Like, the heart— I'm not talking about the beating heart, but like our soul. When we believe in our soul, like the deep down that we believe in this, and we believe in Jesus, that he died for our sins, that he rose from the dead, these are things that are in our core belief system, not that we just believe Jesus roamed the earth, but that he died for our sin to atone for our sins, to be the last Adam to do a completed work. And that because of his blood, we have access to God now. When you believe that in your heart and don't have any doubts, you can have doubts in your mind, but in your heart you do not doubt. That's Mark 11:23, not doubting in your, um, you can doubt in your mind, but not in your heart. You can have anything that you say, whether it's salvation, call upon the name of Jesus and you will be saved.

I believe that. Whether it's a special prayer or whatever, sure. There's also times when people that believed and they were actually baptized, that believed in Jesus, were baptized, and they had not received the Holy Spirit. And the disciples had to lay hands on them to transfer. So there's a transfer that happens when you lay hands. There's a transfer of energy. Sorry, but the earth then is the earth now. There's energy that's transferred. There's spiritual things that are happening.

Mm-hmm.

So yeah, I believe that we will all have to be in front of Jesus one day and in front of God one day, and he will know. That's why he spits out— I think the Bible, I think one of the translations, I might be wrong, sorry, but he vomits out, Jesus vomits out the lukewarm. You're either in or out. There's no in between. So there, for me, there's no like inflection point. I'm all in.

And yeah, I'm curious because, you know, a lot of, you know, Christians, they just make it sound so easy. Like, all you have to do is believe.

Yeah.

Yeah. But if you believe, if you really believe, that's a hard life.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, Yeah, you could run around and say, oh, yeah, I believe in Christ. I believe in Jesus. I believe he rose from the dead. I believe in the resurrection. I believe he died for our sins.

Yeah.

But the way you live your life doesn't look like you believe that. And so I think that maybe modern-day modernist Christianity, like, they say that because it's just— it's easy. Like, it's an easy button. Like, oh yeah, I believe, I'm going. All you have to do is believe.

Yeah.

Yeah, but do you believe? Because you're not living your life like you believe.

Yeah, there's a—

You know, do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, if you really try to live like him, that is hard to do, man. It's really hard.

Yeah, there's a—

like, to not, like, to not feel resentment and, and wish bad on people who've done bad shit to you. And, and, you know, to worship him every day and to always, every decision you make.

Yeah.

Every single decision you make, you know, like, how does this, you know, am I doing the right thing? How does this serve him? How does this serve others? How does, you know what I mean? You'd like, you It constantly has to be on top of mind. It's front of mind. And so I'm just not buying the, oh, you just got to believe. I think that's some modernist bullshit.

Yeah, it's not being— whoever's telling you that's real life.

You have to prove that you believe by the way that you live your life.

And that's the number one thing I tell people is the new covenant and a new creation. When we were born, like I was saying earlier, we receive a heart of stone to a heart of flesh. We receive a new spirit.

Mm-hmm.

Our spirit literally is intertwined with the Holy Spirit. We receive a new spirit. We're almost like a new species. That's kind of the way I see it. Like, we're a new creation. The Bible says a new creation. What does that mean? Is our body different? No, not necessarily. Our spirit's brand new. So if that is perfect, if that's perfected because we have God's spirit now, We also have a soul and a mind and a conscience and a body that's living on earth, but we have this new spirit. So what you're saying is like, what's the manifestation of that? How do you live your life every day? Is it just you, like, you believe, so now everything's good and just go live my life? No. Like, Jesus spits out the lukewarm, so we have to live a life of righteousness and holiness. We have to live a life trying to get everything in alignment to be as much like Jesus as we can. That's like the number one goal, be as much like him as we can. And it is repenting of your sins. It's running away from your sins. It's running away from whatever your lifestyle was.

It's cutting things out of your life. So many people want to have Jesus as Savior to checkbox to go to heaven, but they don't want him as Lord. And that's one of the quotes from The guy who baptized me, Curry Blake, he's out of Texas, John G. Lake Ministries. And John G. Lake has hundreds of thousands of verified— he was in, I think, the early 1900s— hundreds of thousands of verified healings. And he was up in the Pacific Northwest. But Curry Blake took his ministry, or they prophesied that he was going to run the ministry and all this stuff, and it was handed over to him. But he talks about that, the important of not just having Jesus as a Savior, but as a Lord. What does that mean, man? Like, Lord of our life? That's a very strong calling. You're stripping away some things, man.

Mm-hmm.

This isn't like, I'm just gonna feel good now. Like, this is serious. This is the spiritual realm. It's very serious. What our eyes see— our phones are portals. If you want to talk quantum, our phones are portals. We're opening up to the devil every single day when we open our phone up.

Mm-hmm.

We can see anything across the world now with our phones, man. And what, what our eyes see, it's a gateway to our soul. You know, the things we see, the things we say, the words that we say to people, man, is like, it, it's impactful. Like one of the first things that God did, he spoke light into existence. He spoke it into existence. And the vibrations of the words, he said, light be. There was all this stuff in existence before he spoke it though, right? He spoke light to happen. So our words are powerful. What we see, what we say, what we do, how we think, it's extremely powerful. It's like being a follower of Jesus is a, like, it costs the disciples their lives.

Mm-hmm.

It costs everything. And that's why Jesus does not want lukewarm people. He wants people that are gonna say the truth. And we have to evangelize and bring in people into the kingdom. But then from there, that's where the modern church is failing, in my opinion, because they're afraid to hurt people's feelings.

No, no, I don't disagree with you on that at all. What are some things that you've stripped away? You know, you're talking about stripping things away. Alcohol.

That was one of the top things for me. I stopped drinking in 2023. Never touched it since. There's a reason they call it spirits.

I've heard that before.

It's a gateway to all other sorts of trash, man. I'm not on social media. I think it opens up demonic portals. Like, the devil can work so many different ways to show stuff to your mind. So I like, I think. The devil is always out there trying to devour us, like the Bible says.

Mm-hmm.

Seeking to kill, destroy, to steal. He wants to steal financially from us. The impact— I think about the impact and burden of even the channel that I run. It's a demonic battle. It's a spiritual battle. And the emotional impact of like, can I stop this? This is this person's all their money. You know, will I get there in time? But yeah, just even the way I talk, the way I think, Like trying not to be resentful as a person, trying not to compare, like constantly being compared on the internet and trying not to compare with everybody else, trying to be present. Like, like I've suffered with anxiety and depression in the past and just trying to be a present father and a present human being with people to slow down, man. Like Yeah, but like, yeah, cutting away, dude, like cutting away alcohol, cutting away negativity. Um, like that's cutting away, like even the, the hit of like people thinking you're great for what you do.

I just talked about this, the praise.

You go from someone, uh, just, I'll give you a little bit of background really quickly. Like Someone who is bullied and picked on. I think we all have our bullied stories and like the words that people say. I did like an IFS, which is an Internal Family Systems, like therapy type thing where you go internally and you're talking with these like parts of you. It's very interesting. You should look up IFS sometime. My wife's gonna get a kick that I told her I talked about this. But we have stuff that's stuck with us, man, from even like childhood that I'm like, as I'm thinking about this, I'm like, wow, I'm doing— I'm acting in ways to protect my little 3-year-old self, man. And or another part of me that was bullied as a kid or whatever, or things that people said. I was a 6-year-old playing baseball and, you know, the impact of even like not even playing in the game because I was too skinny or too young. And I'm sitting there almost in tears thinking about that, talking to a therapist, because I'm like, man, that actually— the fact that I even remember that.

And there's people that have all sorts of things that have happened to them at a young age or growing up that have been so impactful that we never talk about. We shove away, we drink it away. And it's like, where do we do him? And Jesus came to flip all that on its head and say, no, I am here, man. I'm here with my arms out, and I want you to come to me, and I want you to give me everything. I want you to give it all to me. I died for that. I bled for that, for your pain, for everything that you were going to do to me. We did all this stuff to Jesus, and he died for that, man. It's a beautiful story. Sorry for rambling, but—

No, I love these talks.

I feel very strong about it.

I love these talks, man. You know, Kind of going back to the— I think what started this conversation was being of the people and being like, you're so guarded. Christ maybe wasn't that guarded. And so how do you find the balance within that? And so I want to ask, I think about this too.

Yeah.

Um, you know, what, what is it you actually think people are going to take from you? Have you ever thought about that?

You know, I think that, like, I've always just wanted to be seen for who I am. And not for some propped up, perfectly edited version of what I do on my YouTube channel.

Mm-hmm.

I think that's the biggest fear. It's not— I don't know if it's fear, but it's, it's like you just want to be seen and known for who you like, who you are. And who I am isn't like— like, I'm a follower of Jesus. I'm a family man. I'm a, I'm a dad. I'm a husband. And I just want to have like, it almost makes you tear up, man. My channel was nothing when I think about what, how God's changed my heart. And I think for many years my fear was like, You let people in and like, um, they're gonna be disappointed because in the past I thought that, that who I am actually isn't enough. But what Jesus has told me and the work I've been doing, even like therapy and stuff like that, is like that it is enough. And And that's what I was telling you earlier, that like, as long as I'm true to myself of like what I believe in and who I am, then the right people will be in my life. And I feel strongly about that. That's why I tear up about it, because I hurt for my old self that didn't understand.

And I hurt for believers and people that are out there seeking truth and they're not finding it.

Yeah.

I hurt for people. There's a lot of hurt in this world. Sorry to get emotional.

No, it's all good, man.

But that's me being honest, I guess, you know?

Yeah.

So I got this prayer I want to tell you about. Yeah.

That I think might help you. You mind if I look it up real quick?

Go ahead, man.

Yeah.

All right. It's kind of long. It's a Catholic.

You mean you don't have it memorized?

Give me a distance there.

That's fair.

Something I've been working on, man.

It's funny I talk about IFS. I did, I did this 8-hour intensive on IFS and internal family systems. And there was so much crying, and I must have like triggered something in there talking about my younger self. Somebody was getting emotional in there. It's crazy. It's nice to be real though, man.

It's the only way to be, dude.

It's so nice to be like real.

Only way to be. You know, I see like All these people, you know, that put a facade on their character.

Yeah.

And then they get trapped into that character.

Yeah.

And it's a prison, dude.

Yeah.

It's a prison. They could never get out of it. Very few of them get out of it.

And, uh, One of my number one things is when I come home and my, my kids give me like a king's welcome. I call it the king's welcome. And they just run to me, man. There's nothing better than that. No subscriber, any of that compares.

I think I might have it.

Hold on.

Sorry, this is taking a minute.

Yeah, there's another thing I can talk about with regards to like quantum physics and faith, uh, if we want to dive into that at all. Um, if not, that's fine too. Um, in the power of like spoken word and everything.

I'll actually close.

I can read something if that's okay.

Read it.

Okay. This is one of the things that I— it's in Hebrews. Really quickly, I'm going to read this. It's Hebrews chapter 11. I'll read just a couple of things really quickly. Now faith is the substance Of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, or the conviction of things not seen. So faith is a substance of things that we hope for. It's the conviction or the evidence of things that we don't even see. Right there, that's like a very interesting verse to think about being able to have conviction about something you don't even see. But your faith is a substance that does something. Your faith is this. It's an assurance. It's a substance that goes out and does a work. It says here in verse 3 of Hebrews 11, by faith we understand that the universe was created by the Word of God, which the Word of God is also Jesus, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible. So everything we see is made up of something that is not visible to our eye.

Mm-hmm.

And there's so many different ways I could go into that. I just— that's one of my foundational verses when I started hearing about quantum physics, where all these atoms, these subatomic particles, are made up of 99% of nothing. And it's all just these moving electrons that are going around really quickly. And they started doing all these exercises and— or experiments, I guess, where they would, you know, have the particle sent, and then when they observe it, it would collapse. And then you start thinking about the quantum entanglement, where they would have— they would split atoms or whatever and send them all these years away from each other or distance away, and then observe one, and then the other one would be observed right away.

Crazy.

Yeah. And then you start to think about Jesus saying, I'm in the Father as he is in me, on earth as it is in heaven. And you're like, that's pretty— that kind of sounds very similar to something. And I'm like, so some of these things are starting to make sense. And anyway, it goes down a rabbit hole. There's some really cool conversations to be had about that, about quantum— call it quantum faith. And Jesus is really cool, man. He's super cool when you start to read the Bible for through a certain lens. Science did not make this. Jesus made this.

Yeah.

Anyway, so continue on.

Yeah, here, here you go. So I love that, by the way.

Yeah.

So it's a little bit different than the one that I pray, but it's pretty much the same thing. So just to recap, we were kind of talking about not worrying about you know, what people think of you, and you want them to know who you are. And yeah, I think the thing is, like, you really shouldn't concern yourself with the thoughts of man at all. So who really gives a shit what people think of you?

Yeah.

But I get it. And so anyways, like, you were talking about demonic attacks and stuff, and I kind of brought up this, this psychedelic thing that, like, triggered all this stuff and I've been dealing with it. And so anyways, this is— I'm on this strict prayer regimen. This is one of the prayers that I say, and this is becoming one of my favorite. It's called the Litany of Humility.

I'm going to close my eyes, by the way, because I want to kind of see it with my eyes closed, if that's okay.

So, oh Jesus, meek and humble of heart, hear me. From the desire of being esteemed, deliver me, Jesus. From the desire of being loved, Deliver me, Jesus. From the desire of being extolled, deliver me, Jesus. From the desire of being honored, deliver me, Jesus. From the desire of being praised, deliver me, Jesus. From the desire of being preferred to others, deliver me, Jesus. From the desire of being consulted, deliver me, Jesus. From the desire of being approved, deliver me, Jesus. From the fear of being humiliated, deliver me, Jesus. From the fear of being despised, deliver me, Jesus. From the fear of suffering rebukes, deliver me, Jesus. From the fear of being calumniated, deliver me, Jesus. From the fear of being forgotten, deliver me, Jesus. From the fear of being ridiculed, deliver me, Jesus. From the fear of being wronged, deliver me, Jesus. From the fear of being suspected, deliver me, Jesus. That others may be loved more than I, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it, that others may be esteemed more than I. Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it, that in the opinion of the world, others may increase and I may decrease.

Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it, that others may be chosen and I set aside. Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it, that others may be praised and I unnoticed. Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That others may be preferred to me in everything. Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. That others may become holier than I, provided that I become as holy as I should. Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it. Amen.

Amen.

That's awesome.

What do you think of that? Did that resonate with you at all? It's basically saying, Take all alkaloids away and make me want all of that to happen.

Yeah. It's like, save me from myself.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like, man, that's what I was talking about earlier is like this idea that, well, the fact that when you're born again, born of the Spirit, what I'm talking about, Receive the Holy Spirit. Now our life in this new covenant with Jesus is about stripping everything away—the pride, the selfishness, the needing of reassurance from other people—all that stuff. Whatever it is, whatever your thing is, you know, stripping it away and moving towards him so that everything is aligned. And that's like the hardest thing. And that's why, like they. The Bible talks about the renewal of the mind, and I think that's one of the hardest things for the 2026 Christian. The 2026 believer is how do you renew your mind? And there's also it's it is by stripping away, but it's also inputting the word that does a work. That's the word of God. It says is strong enough to split. spirit and soul. It's like a sword. Like, Jesus is yielding a weapon that we have, and we have authority and power to yield. And there's that power of that and the authority of what he gives us when we have the Holy Spirit.

And then there's that other side where we do have to run away. We have to, like, sprint away from our— from the trash on the inside of us. Like, that's why we got saved in the first place. And when I hear you read that prayer, it is like a lot of like stripping away these things, like deliver me, save me from this, save me from this, because I don't want those things, man. I want, I want the fruit. I want the manifestation of peace on the inside and lightness and love, because like love is like so encompassing of so many things. I don't want to be a resentful person, a bitter person, a jealous person, an angry person, an anxious person. I've been all those things. And like, I don't want to mask it anymore. I want to be real with people, man. Like, I want to, like, like I said, have true connection and like bring people to the Lord. Like, all this will go away one day, but he will be here forever. He will reign, you know? So what are we, what are we doing on this earth to change things?

Yeah.

And I just, I think we have to renew our mind. There's neuroscience about it now. I'm sure you've heard of the neuroplasticity in the brain, how our brain is malleable. That's literally Bible, dude. We should be transforming our life by the renewal of our mind every day. And that's the cutting the stuff out, asking Jesus to deliver us from these things, and then inputting the word of God. And faith comes by hearing and hearing and hearing of the word. So reading the word, I do believe in a physical Bible, like with pages versus like the phone, you know?

Mm-hmm.

And speaking it out loud does things. Speaking the Word of God does things. Reading it, speaking it, praying, practicing tongues. And then the last thing I'll say about this is the authority and the dominion that Jesus gave us. Um, when he gave like the disciples, for instance, he gave them authority, which is exousia, which is the Greek word. And he gave dunamis, which is power, and we have that. So we have power to speak to demons because of our covenant with Jesus. He gave us the exousia and the dunamis to do that. So we have a power that's delegated to us to, um, as a believer, not— we're not no special— the Bible says that God is not a respecter of persons. So he doesn't hold people in different regards. Believers can, can yield the sword, the word, the truth of God, the name of Jesus, and cast demons, you know, lay hands, heal the sick, raise the dead. I firmly believe that.

Me too, man.

Curry, the guy I told you about, he, uh, his daughter was raised from the dead.

No, really?

His daughter was dead for, I think it was over 45 minutes. She came back to life. And from his commanding for it to happen at his house— he was not at a hospital, it was at his house, I'm pretty sure.

Wow.

Yeah.

Let's take a break.

Sure.

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I think I have everything set up. I've got a scammer that it's 1:41 AM for him and he has like no battery left on his computer. We've been watching this guy for a little while. Um, he's got like his WhatsApp open, which he uses to scam, and then you'll see this like live calls thing. Um, so in case somebody calls him or whatever. But we've got his audio piped in. And in honor of your gummy bears, I was in the office talking to one of my guys. I'm like, why don't we put gummy bears all over the screen and like have them like fall from the sky and just destroy this guy's computer? Which it's— I know it sounds ridiculous, but like some of the most preposterous endings we do on scammers' computers Is stuff like this.

Yeah. And what are their— what are typically their reactions when they— when it starts? Like when they hear you mention crickets and like all kinds of weird sounds, are they like, can you hear them?

Yeah. First they don't know what's happening. And then the other thing they'll do is like right-click on their desktop and hit refresh all the time, and then they'll restart the computer, but we're still there. And then once they really get hit, It's like they'll slam the— if it's a laptop, they'll slam it down on the ground, like slam it shut and then open it back. And we're still there. We just run it again and keep running it. But this, what it's going to do is going to destroy this guy's computer so he can't use it anymore.

And so who is this guy?

He's a scammer. Let me see where he's out of. Actually, this guy is actually in Delhi. So, um, Delhi, India, and we've been watching him for a little while, but, um, he's due for— I can go through his files if you want to see some of his files.

Do you mind if I swing over there?

Yeah, come on over. Um, so let me see here. I'm going to pull this guy up really quickly. Um, So the beautiful thing is like you have like a file browser, you can just go like, so these are some of the connections that we have on at the moment that I can just kind of scroll through and like—

And he has no idea you're at his computer right now.

Correct. He has zero idea. All right. Zero. Yeah. He has no knowledge of this. So you can kind of go through here and see like I could download this PayPal.txt file and these are all like, it's like scam information. So you can see this Geek Renew updated. This is one of the ones he sends out to his victims. Um, so he has information.

What does it say?

Yeah, we can update. Yeah, I'll download it really quickly and see if I can't— I forgot I'm on a computer inside of a computer right now. So which one was it? It was Geek Renew. Here it is. So this is what it looks like. So this is renewal confirmation.

Yep.

So this is what— and it looks pretty professional. Yep. And they're using all the logos, and it says you were billed for $488, and then if you didn't do this, call us, and then you call this number, and that's how you get him. And that's the beginning. But it looks real. I mean, they do a really good job. Like, they're using Claude. They're do— like, they're doing a lot of pretty advanced stuff now to try to trick people. I'll show you really quickly since you're here, um, just an example of some of our friends. Um, this is one of the guys that we were about to expose. Well, this, this one guy here I'll show you. He's in one of our previous videos, and this is when we loaded up his Uh, camera. And, um, can I zoom in on this? There we go. So him shirtless in his flat in between scams. So he's on the phone with somebody, um, and we would catch him while he's scamming and take pictures of him without him knowing. And then we made a video out of him. So it's just part of the capabilities that we get to get back at these guys because they do it to— they do it to— They do it to innocent people.

What a piece of shit.

Yeah. So we have— this is like a library of some of the screenshots of guys that we've taken. Um, these guys are pretty terrible too. They, they kind of started to catch on. Do I have them anymore?

Where is it?

Dang, where did he go? Anyway, I'll show you the— let me see here. Anyway, you can kind of get the idea. So, um, as soon as we— like, what we'll do is we'll open up the camera and then we'll close it really quickly because there's usually a light Right? Like, um, so yeah, so this is an example. You also have like PayPal 3. Um, I'll just show you, this is another example. One of the things we do, we— the reason why we download a lot of these files is to prove to everyone that these are scammers. So this is another idea or evidence of— they'll take this, this is just like HTML, and then they'll put this— this is the body of an email. So they take this and put it into an email sender and they edit like the amount, dollar amount and stuff like that. And then this is part of how they scam people. So it's similar to that Geek Renew thing.

Hmm.

A lot of times we'll also have like there's emails. So like this one, probably if I'm guessing, it's going to show— I hope I had enough time to download it. It's going to show like all victim emails.

Yeah.

So these are all different kinds of emails that he could get into. Actually, no, this is the one he— so this is how they do it. So these are all emails that will not hit his spam, if that makes sense. Come on, what happened? Does that make sense? So like when they send a bulk email out, um, so they know for sure that these aren't gonna hit spam. So these are all just random emails that they'll use so they can over and over and over again send out emails without it getting hit by like a spam blocker or whatever. Um, and then the last one, let's see here. I can show you, like, this is just another, like, piece of trash move. Like, they get their victims to, like, send their IDs and stuff. So this is part of where they, like, steal people's identities. So we have so many through, like, Scammer Files where we, um, see where they, like— let me see here. Well, this guy actually has some really interesting ones about like his office and stuff that he's in. But a lot of these will have checks. Like these are gift cards.

Actually, this is a shipment. Remember I was telling you the— they ship the box?

Yeah.

So if we got here in time, I would have been able to take that tracking number. All the UPS start with 1Z and I could have sent that over to the feds and they would have stopped this. But I didn't get to it in time. But there's also— you have the person that Collected this, so the person that's a part of a crime that collected this. So you have that information. You have the tracking numbers, and you have you have a lot of information from this still. So I still give this information over. But here's another example: like just this is a gift card for $500. So they'll get the victim to go to Target, get a gift card, scratch off the back, and get the receipt. and the card, and then they'll take this image and they'll give it to one of these like trading websites and the person will burn the card immediately and then give them crypto and then it's gone in like seconds.

Wow.

So these are just some examples. We get everything. This guy's got all of his phone detail information so we can get into their phone systems, which is really cool. We take all of this and collect all of this in case anyone in India wants information on these people. Uh, this is a lady's Google profile picture. She's a lady scammer, and that's her Google profile. So we downloaded it from her account. So, you know, like, that's what we do. So now I personally don't know what is going to run. I have an idea because I saw kind of something that one of our guys built. All I know is it has to do with your gummy bears.

Okay.

So do you want to— let me see here, actually. I'm gonna make sure the file is here. Okay, gummybear.png is there. And then your file. So if you want, I can either just do it, or if you want to do it, You can type out the command.

Yeah, I'll hit it.

You want to type the command?

I want to hear this guy.

Oh yeah, shoot.

Hold on.

Yeah, let's see if, um—

Can you see him?

This guy, uh, let me see. I'll open up his camera and see if he's— if he is on. A lot of these scammers have started to— because we open up their cameras a lot, they've started to like cover them. So usually So, so he's using the thing that— the physical thing that blocks it, if that makes sense.

Gotcha. So use a tape over it or something?

Well, some of these laptops, the new laptops now have like a physical like thing that is built in like with the manufacturer. So that's why you'll see that, because it's like built into the hardware and the software. And then let me— we've been watching this guy for a while. Oh, he's gonna get it. Okay, so let me turn on and see if he's even gonna say anything.

Speaker feed.

Actually, let me reopen this. It says you can also see like the idle time, um, which is kind of nice to see if they're at the computer or not. So like, I could pull up your podcast on his channel right now. Like, I can just hit this button and like, here I could go to his WhatsApp, for instance. So I'm taking over his computer. Oh, he's using the QR code. Okay, uh, this I'm clicking on his— this is his call system. So he doesn't have any live calls that are coming in, but if I was on my actual computer, I could see like the telephone number. Actually, I might be able to call him. I might be able to call that number if you want me to.

You want to call the number?

Yeah, if you want to, we can call.

What would you call it from?

Just like a Google Voice. See, they're getting a call coming in right now.

Oh yeah.

Yeah, see, so there's—

we can hear it maybe.

Connected calls. Yeah, if he's gonna take it, um, I'm not hearing any sound from his computer right now. Let me take this over. I'm doing a little risky thing here. Okay, let me see. He must have his microphone not turned on at the moment. Let me see what's going on here. I might have to make a call really fast to see if they can hear it on the their side, because he may have walked away from his computer. Okay, let me see if— because usually I can hear him talking is what I'm getting at, and I can't hear him talk right now. So let me pull it back up and see. This is also the tough part about doing like anything live because, yeah, like you're also at like the whim of like whatever these guys are doing. He goes to the bathroom. Okay, there we go. So he's back.

So I just had to reload it audio so you can kind of hear him.

Sounds pretty happy.

He sounds very happy. He's not going to be very happy soon. You're gonna call him? We can call him if you want, or do you want to—

From my Glacier phone?

I mean, I have a Google Voice if you want, or you want to use your Glacier phone?

Okay.

Yellow K. Now I hope he picks up though.

606—

oh wait, hold on.

Yay!

866—

hold on, I'm buying a burner.

Oh, okay.

Scammer payback.

Yeah, he's, he's at home.

All right, what's his number?

Okay, so it's 866— 866—

308-4721.

Let's see if he's gonna pick up. We'll see if it goes through. It should. Yep, that's us. Come on, pick up, guy.

Thank you for calling customer helpline. How may I assist you?

Hi, is, um, Brian there?

Sorry, who, sir?

Brian?

No.

Actually, yeah, I just want to let you know this is, uh, Pierogi and Sean Ryan, and we're coming after you guys. I would shut down. That was somebody else because some, like I was saying, some of these guys are work from home.

So I don't think that was him.

You want me to call another one?

Uh, it was a DID. Oh, he's calling a missed call now.

Wait, what?

Do you know what your number was that you called from?

Yep.

716-687-0581.

Oh, I thought he was— oh, he's actually going to do— oh, do you see how he changed the caller ID? So remember we're talking about this?

Yeah.

So he just went in and changed the caller ID so he can call us a different number. It's this Telipsis thing that he was using. So he went in and he was— he might be making a call right now from his phone. But he was going in and added in a call and then put in the caller ID and everything. Or we can just hit this guy right now. That number will still be up. So you can, you can just keep calling them.

You want to call them again?

Sure. Hopefully we get him. Uh-oh, they might be a little unexpected. She must be a little bit— she might be a little nervous that we just—

You want to just nuke them?

She might be nervous because we just— do you hear them kind of like when I was clicking the mouse on the screen? So they're sitting there and they just saw me click on the screen. Yeah, they do not want to pick up from your number. Okay, so now, well, we called them once. We called them once, told them to like hang up. Oh, here we go. Okay, so this is another one of their, um, these RingCentral Um, so he's just kind of like clicking around. He's a little bit skeptical of what's happening, and he's not even on a call. He's getting a little bit nervous. So, but yeah, they have everything. You can take the whoever called, this DID number, where it forwards to. They have the recordings. They can download the recordings, everything. It's like a full company. See, so he's doing another call and adding in a caller ID number and saving it. So, all right, so let's just nuke him and see what happens. I don't know if there's gonna be audio or anything, but if you wanna nuke him, all you have to do is type Sean.exe and then space.

Sean.exe.

Yep, and then space, minus sign, like, And then, yep, and then type bear and then hit enter. Oh my gosh, you see? So his screen right now is freaking out. You see it spinning? Hold on, I'm gonna have a gummy bear in honor of this. So he's— so the other thing is they're in India, so there's like a big lag.

Yeah.

So what we'll be able to— he's not seeing anything yet, or he's not saying anything yet, but his screen is literally flipping around. There was gummy bears that went across. Oh, now, so as this is happening, it's tearing Through his, like, memory, CPU, storage, and it's getting slower and slower. We're doing calculations on the computer and destroying his computer over time. So his computer will be unusable.

What's up?

Yeah, yeah, sorry. So He's still there. He's a little nervous. Again, I'm really surprised no one's saying anything.

Can you please provide me with your invoice number?

This is crazy to me. If I— hold on, I have an idea. Um, actually, if I have like 5 more minutes, I could— we could talk to him through the microphone if you want.

Yeah, let's do it.

Okay, let me see if I'm still connected here. Please tell me I'm still connected.

Oh my gosh. May I have your name, please?

All right, give me one second and then I will get it and you can talk with him. All right, does that sound okay?

Yeah.

I know it doesn't feel very like— so my guys are freaking out at the office because we just hit them and they can see everything happening in real time, so it's not as Impactful, just seeing like little frames of stuff happening.

Yeah.

But this guy's computer's getting destroyed and he doesn't— they're either not there, but this is what he's seeing. Like, imagine going on your computer, you see this and it's spinning around. Like, and you saw a bunch of, you know, gummy bears, Vigilance Elite gummy bears on your screen, and then your screen's destroyed. So, thank you. It's unusable. He's like, he'll never be able to use it.

But he—

I guess he's not there or something.

Okay, let's do it again.

Yeah, wait, should we do it again? Yeah, I gotta— I'm gonna grab my phone to log into something.

Uh-oh. Since this is an auto-renewal bill which you received after a long time, and, uh, it was a free trial, it was subscribed, right? So right this moment, all the old accounts get upgraded to the premium plan. That's why you have received the bill for it in your email. Okay. So in order to cancel and—

I can't believe he hasn't done it. He's not doing anything.

Any computer or any laptop. Can you arrange any of these for the cancellation? Okay, is it a desktop or a laptop? Okay. Now on your desktop, ma'am, look onto your keyboard. At the left-hand side bottom of your keyboard, do you see your Control key, Ctrl?

Yes.

Did you find it? Exactly. Next to, and next to the Control key, you can see your Windows key. The Microsoft Windows key. It looks like a OS file box on it. Did you find it? Okay. Can you press that Window key?

I can't believe like, it's just spin— you can see like his old desktop behind him. It's just spinning. Yeah, okay, here we go. So we're gonna be able to talk to this guy for sure. Let me make sure he's online.

This is the same guy?

Correct. Yeah, you see at the top, at the top of your screen, do you see it give you a search box? A long search bar. Just search for abstracting and documents.

Why is he not—

Do you see any search box? This concept, when you search on my—

when it does—

see that?

It worked beautifully. I thought he was going to have sound on here, to be honest. I thought he was going to like deep fry.

Again, who are we hearing right now?

It's like a guy next to him that's scamming. He's just on the phone and they don't see it, but we, we've tapped into the microphone so they can like— and here's more computers, by the way. You can see all the freaking—

these are all Scammers.

All scammers right here. And this is like a slow day.

So you can just sit here and just do this all day.

Yes.

So I'm gonna hopefully— All right, what happened here?

Oh, okay.

So now he's— your PC ran into a problem. Stop scamming with Moron. All right, so that's what he's seeing right now. So he came back. There he goes. That we didn't get— I thought the final was going to be that we'd be able to talk to him. Uh, we can talk to another guy if you want really quickly.

Would you want to call him first again?

Okay. Yeah, for sure. What was the number? I can, um, I can call them too.

I'll call them using the Glacier phone.

Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. They might not be happy with that phone number. You have it? Can you like change the numbers around?

Yeah.

Nice.

What area code do you want?

Uh, 678 or 786, I guess. Do 786. It's like Oh wait, he is right here. Wait, is he back on?

You want 786?

Yeah.

Miami, huh?

Yeah, that's my, my Google Voice. Oh, he is back.

Those ones are all taken.

Oh, he's back.

What's DC?

Oh gosh, 666, I think.

That makes sense.

Once you open it, it will give you 2 options. It says get help, help someone, which will ask you to enter the security code from Assistant. Let me know once you are ready for the code so I can give it to you.

He's back again.

Cancel the security. Is it asking for code? Enter code. Your internet is working slow. This is not your fault.

No, your internet. It's going to be working slow.

Let me know.

All right.

Okay, the code is M as in Mike in uppercase.

Okay, you ready?

Yep.

All right, what's the number?

Oh shoot, uh, try— let me see here— try 805-305-304-4398.

Yep.

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Thank you for connecting with support.

This is David. How can I help you?

Hey David, um, have you had any gummy bears recently? It's Pierogi. I'm here with Sean.

How's it going?

Oh my gosh, I'd be scared of that voice.

What are you scamming over there? What are you scamming over there?

How did you got my number?

Well, we found it on the internet.

How's Delhi? Hey, Sean found that you're in Delhi. Is that true?

No, no, no, we are not in Delhi.

Oh, we are in Tampa, Florida. Oh yeah, okay.

How's the weather down there?

Let me give you my AnyDesk ID.

Yeah, you want me to take your AnyDesk ID? What if I already have your computer?

Are you looking at your computer right now?

No, I'm not looking at my computer. I'm looking at the cell phone that I'm speaking to it through. Okay.

Could you look at your computer right now?

Well, for that I have to go down.

Well, you might want to look at your computer right now. Let me know when you're looking at it.

Are you in the— are you in the washroom taking a tuk-tuk tea? Are you in the washroom taking a tuk-tuk tea in your pants? Yeah, what are you gonna do when someone comes to your flat in Delhi?

Well, I'll just wait for them.

All right, I'll, I'll tell you this, if you give me access to 5 of your friends, I will spare your computer.

All right, that sounds like a fair deal.

Yeah. You can do that?

How? Yeah, well, I can just drop you an email. You have an email that I can drop info on?

Yeah. How do I know you're not lying? Because you guys always lie to me. And I have Sean Ryan with— I have Sean Ryan with me. You don't want to mess with him, honestly. You don't want to piss him off.

Oh, sure, sure. I'll have a look for it.

Well, You won't have to look too hard.

Yeah, you're not gonna have to look— you're not gonna have to look too hard, buddy.

No, dude.

No, dude. What's your real name?

My real name?

Proper name. Rajav bhai? What's your real name?

My real name? Yeah.

What is it? Okay, yeah, you guys always say that name. I'm not stupid. They always do that every time. All right, that's it. Sean's gonna put the— this is your last chance. He's gonna run the virus on your computer now. Okay, we don't need luck. We're watching your screen, guy.

What am I doing right now?

Absolutely nothing. You're looking at Google.

What is the name of that? Telepsis?

Yeah.

Do you know about telepsis? Yeah.

What's telepsis?

Not sure.

Yeah, stop playing stupid.

Uh, Screen Connect.

What, what's your Screen Connect?

I'm not computer literate.

Oh, shut— yeah, of course you're not computer literate.

Yes. Yes. Do you have any—

do you have anything you want to say to the world? Do you have anything you want to say to the world?

Bring world peace together.

That's right. We're calling from a Glacier number that we're gonna burn right after this, and I'm gonna destroy your computer in 3, 2, 1.

Have a good day. Bye, Beta. मैं तेरा बाप हूँ। मैं तेरा बाप हूँ, बेटा। Bye, Beta. Bye, Babu.

I love you, Babu.

Oh, Babu! Look at your screen, Babu.

Bye. Bye, Babu.

Have a good day, Babu. I love you, beta. He doesn't know what to say. Look at him.

Well, let me burn the number here.

Oh, that's so good. Well, um, how did it feel to call— I know, how did it feel to call some scammers?

It feels awesome.

It's really fun.

Want to do another?

It's fun. It's amazing. And the beautiful thing is this is going to run in like forever on this guy's computer anytime he restarts. So that's exciting. And let me see if there's anyone else that's interesting.

These guys know who you are. That's hilarious.

Yeah, it's— this guy's doing an active scam. Well, there's multiple active scams.

Really?

Yeah. So I'll show you just so you have an idea. Actually, I'll do so it looks better. What is this? 5BS. I'll go into this system, 5BS, and then we can just click here. We can go through his files, we can see every— like, do everything. We can connect in. Um, so here, like, this box here is the, um, this is the victim screen, and then he's connected in using this thing called Ultra Viewer and he's connected in. So this part here is his desktop with like all his files and Social Security Administration. That's one of those scams I told you about before where they pretend to be like a government agency. So like for instance here, I can just take over. What I'm going to do is I'm going to take over his computer. Hopefully, I don't know if it's with me remoted in this way if it's going to work, but I'm going to take over his computer and just shut down the victim's computer.

Nice.

So he has no more access.

Can you hear him?

Um, I can. I will turn it on. Um, so this is what I'm doing on the victims right now. So just shutting it down. That's one of the first things I like to do is just shut it down in front of their face. So like, it's so laggy. Again, I'm going from our internet here all the way back to our office. our office all the way to India. So sometimes, um, and also— dang, there we go. See, cannot capture the screen because the partner shut down.

And they're watching this happen on their computer.

Yep.

So it's— let me see if he's saying anything. Sometimes they'll be like, sir, why are you touching your screen?

Whoops.

So let me shut down Anywhere.

Okay, this is not your personal computer.

Dude, what is that noise? Anyway, it's sometimes the lag catches up. Yeah, so he's shut down and there you can hear there's multiple guys in here talking. This guy's trying to set up another time to call the victim. Um, let me see if there's another one that's like kind of fun. I'll keep their audio on just for a second. Do you hear that?

What'd he say?

Computer meta hacked by— he's saying like, bro, someone's hacked my computer.

Did you hear him?

Stop scamming, moron.

Oh, it's back again.

That's, that's him again.

Oh, that's—

yeah, that's the other guy.

Yep.

That was the earlier guy. He's back. It's just the gift that keeps on giving. So now he sees it. So we do various things like this to just like, in the middle of them scamming, we just destroy their computer. It's unusable. They shut down, they come back. We've already gained all the evidence on them. Location, names, phone numbers, photos, all that. So before we destroy them, and the beautiful thing is wherever they pop up, we'll find them. So we have like a whole tracker that keeps track of these guys.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

So anytime you want to do calls, you can use your phone. you can use the Glacier phone and hide your number and call them up, and you can challenge them, you can scare them, you can say where their location is, and they don't like it. But again, any of these computers we can just go into and like see what they're doing. A lot of the times I'll use this though because it allows me to see like what windows are open.

Mm-hmm.

So for instance, this guy's connected in I really wish there was a camera that was open, but I was hoping some of my guys that were on camera were here, but I guess they took the break for the day. But so yeah, so even this one, so they have this version. This is what you'll be able to see is WhatsApp too. So you can just sit here and other ones like Telegram, if they're using Telegram desktop on the, you can take their, all their Telegram stuff and take over their chat and like read all their things that they're doing. But we get to sit here and read, uh, their chats when they're trying to steal money from someone. So if they're having money being sent somewhere, we can, you know, like screen cap the conversations and send it over to like law enforcement. Um, and all it takes is like a couple clicks of a button and I can— I could take over his mouse, his keyboard. I could listen to him. Uh, he's connected into a victim right now, so.

Damn.

Um, but they, they have these little groups and stuff and they talk about the victims. They call them customers. This here too, it says virus detected because the way that they use this one software, it looks like a virus because it pretty much kind of is. But you can see the victim's picture right there on her desktop. So, um, we can just listen in really quickly if you want. This will be like the last one.

Yeah.

Because that other dude is like, They kind of know when they're talking to me, they're like, do whatever you want because we know you have us kind of thing. Like, they kind of know it's over. Let's see if anyone's talking. He may not be talking. Some of these guys, they don't use their computers for calling anymore.

So meanwhile, we are getting the account information handy, ready. I want you to get ready because now you may have to go outside your house. You may have to drive towards the local branch in order to make a wire transfer. So meanwhile, I'm waiting for the account information. You can get yourself—

Giving bhai, which means I'm giving, like, I'm getting the, um, bhai is like bro in Hindi.

Yeah, man. One of, one of Bank of America branch in order to make a wire transfer, because as I told you that it cannot be done online.

So now I can't leave because I have to stop this wire transfer.

So create under your name. So it should be a bogus account. It could be under somebody else's name. It will be a random name or it will be a random business name. Okay. So it's just that we have to create a— make a wire transfer, make a false transaction, a dummy transaction using your account. So for that, we are going to create the account. So I'm just waiting for the account information. Meanwhile, I'm waiting for creating— meanwhile, FTC is creating the account. I'm waiting for the account details. You can get ready.

Okay.

Once you're ready, you can let me know. You can put the phone on speaker and you can put the phone So again, you're at the end of the scam here.

So he's already like won her over.

You don't need your laptop in order to make a wire transfer. What you have to do is you—

I'm going to do is kind of risky.

Either your debit card.

So just to let you know, so we can't hear her because he's not routing the call through the computer. He's routing it through. He has like a phone with headphones, but we can still hear him because we're tapped into his microphone. This box right here, this command prompt. This black one is where they run like the scam out of. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to take over his computer live in front of his face, and I'm going to try very sneakily— sneakishly, if that's— I don't even think that's a word, but I'm going to click on that. And what's going to happen is I'm going to take a picture of the information that I get because it's going to have the victim's, um, it's going to have the victim's information. Because they have them put in like their address, their name, their phone number, everything. All right, her name's already— that's her name. So this is part of the investigative Melva E. Stevenson, and the scammers put that information there. And then I'm going to click this. Oh shoot. Okay, that was not right.

Okay.

I'm not going to risk it anymore, so I'm going to go to a site really quickly on my phone and see if— hold on, one of my guys just messaged me. Oh, he's, he's making more. He's making— one of my guys is making way more stuff right now to do. But what I'm going to do is I'm going to go to a Unfortunately, go to a data broker site. This is the other— it's like crazy, but I'm gonna go to data broker site. I'm gonna put that lady's information in. And so Melva E. Stevenson, if that's a real person.

And then— So you have to come up with a positive answer. Yep.

78 years old from Houston, Texas.

So whatever, once we have the account—

So he's gonna just ruin this woman's life.

Yeah. So for an example, if we get a temporary account under the name of John Doe, so you can simply say that that person is your friend or family.

See, he exited out. That's smart of him. He exited out of that thing that had her information.

Then just to make your job easy, I will create a false document I'll just put, uh, info like a dummy document as well for partnership. You can tell them that it is because I'm getting a partnership with this firm and this and that, and then you— they will make the wire transfer. If they ask you why are you sending this money to John Doe, just tell them, yes, you're just trying to figure out how to get her information. You're lending the funds and you will be getting the funds back soon, in 1 or 2 days. And if you're— if you're not sure, If you— if we get any company name, then you can simply say that you're getting a partnership.

There's other things that we can do that are a little bit riskier. Okay, here we go. Um, he's saying like which— so this is the, the money launder guy that they're going to be using. And, um, I really want to take over this guy's computer really badly. I'm nervous about this. There's 3 photos here. This could possibly be Maybe like a money laundering transaction that happened.

I'll do that. Right now I want you to stay at home.

That wasn't me. Unexpected error. So you can kind of imagine like how long this takes because you're sitting here, you can't really intervene. If I don't have the information on the person, I can't do anything yet. So it's trying to piece it together. I've got— I can look up— let me see here. Perfect. So this is the victim. So now within a couple minutes, because of data brokers, we now have the address of the person. We have the name, we have the address. This is where she is, and we can now send this over to— actually, pretty quickly. No, that's why I couldn't hear anything. I have a guy that's gonna— Okay. He must be working on something.

All right.

I have a victim for you. She is going to bank. So the other thing that they do that the scammers give away— so they give away— this would just be confirming. They'll look up Bank of America, they'll look up Bitcoin ATMs, and then they'll pretty much give the location of where they're sending the victim to. So we'll watch that and then give it. Melva E.

Stephenson.

What was the address? Houston?

Yeah.

13035 Crystal Cove Drive, Houston, Texas. She is going to Bank of America. So instead of me trying to, like, call her 100 times, Which I could do that if I can find her phone number. I'll just send law enforcement. So this guy will get in contact with some agencies type things, I can't say, and, and then they'll dispatch local law enforcement.

Right on.

Yeah, and this guy's Canadian too. I don't know how he knows all these people. He's Canadian law enforcement and he helps us stop a lot of scams too. So we have like— I have 2 different routes I can go. I have this guy and then I have some other folks that we got the, the big hit on. Yeah, Bank of America. So he's—

Sleep banks.

So even so, I can show you this really quickly. So let me— oh my gosh, he's getting kind of paranoid. Oh, he's on her computer clicking around. So now you'll see he's going into her bank account. She's not telling him to do that, and he's not even talking. So she's getting ready. She's getting ready to get her stuff to go out to the bank, and he's clicking around on her account without, um, you know, her allowing it. So this is one of the biggest problems I would tell your audience that watch. Um, never save your passwords into your browsers. I know it must be really nice to do that, but it's not very secure. Because what these guys bank on all of your— see, her password's saved in there. So now he has access.

Holy shit.

Yep.

Okay, so we're looking at—

oh no.

All right, $20,000 wire transfer that's pending. So we're— okay, okay, okay, okay. Wire already sent. It's still pending though. Bank of America. Because it's Bank of America, we'll be able— I think we'll be able to stop it pretty quickly, actually. So, um, yeah, I will make sure to follow up with you guys too, just so like, you know, that this person was saved.

Yeah.

Because it might take a little bit of time. But as you saw on her account, you saw the minus $25,000 wire. And that's how fast this stuff goes, dude. If like, I hope we get there in time, honestly, because she has like $11,000 left in her account if we don't stop it. And it looks like he's trying to do another one because he's getting her— so he's already gotten her to send one wire and he's trying to get her to go send another one. So that's why he's trying to get another account.

78 years old.

Yep, 78 years old. Um, like, her house is worth $150,000 and she's wire transferring everything out of her bank account, so she's going to be broke and not be able to pay her mortgage, probably.

Shit.

Yep.

And nobody would have ever seen this, you know what I'm saying? Like, nobody would have ever, like So it's crazy. And the other part that's actually really sad that I'll highlight is— let me make sure that this audio is coming through again. Yeah, speakers aren't coming through. But one of the other things I want to highlight is I know when you're not in the seat, it doesn't feel as convincing. But for these grandmas and grandpas, it's like super convincing for whatever reason. And he's like, yes, ma'am. So like, go send money one time and then go back to another branch and send more money. And they, they believe that. Like, it's just very sad. So, okay, so he's read everything. Do you need Anything else at the moment? I'll click around on his computer actually, because I don't really care, um, and see if there's like any other details I can get.

$30K account.

Not going to do— not going to do cash pickup. Wire account. Oh, that's him. Okay, I'm going to stop. If you got a phone number, we'll take it. Otherwise, we're working with the bank to get it stopped.

Um, sheesh.

She is horrible. I need to break. But that's pretty comforting. They are about to send another wire. There's a $25K pending. So we've actually— you've actually got to have a day in the life. I cried. We called scammers, we destroyed their computer, and we're saving a victim. So that's, that's, uh, a day in the life.

So that's sad, like how many people that's happening to. And yeah, I mean, it's cool to blow their computers up and, and, but shit, it's just like how many thousands of of people is this actually happening to right now?

Who are the ones that we can't get?

And what happens to these people when it's— you know what I mean— that they don't get saved? Um, they're broke, broke, foreclosed, their life's ruined.

Some have lost their lives from like the ruin of it.

Can't pay medical bills.

Yep.

Shit.

Can't, can't do anything. And it's not even— it's not even 25,000 there. I've seen I've seen millions, millions that they just siphon from people's accounts. And if we're not there, then nobody's there. And you see, they used a big bank and she already sent a wire. So that means she already sent one before and she's going to go do it again and nobody's stopping her.

So Damn.

Except for she's about to get a knock at her door soon and it's going to be the police. So that's really nice.

Yeah.

So that's where I say, like, there's not systemic changes that are happening that are going to help people from a government standpoint, but they're at least responsive when I'm trying to get these things done, like these one-offs. That makes sense.

Yeah.

Damn.

You know, so at some point in this we were talking about, you know, changing policy and getting the government to step in. And yeah, I think we both agree that, that, um, government isn't going to do shit.

Mhm.

So what can, what can people do, you know, to protect themselves from stuff? What are things they— I mean, we've, we've just— they're aware of what's happening.

Yeah.

What can they do? What specifically should they be looking out for? What advice do you have?

Make all your parents' and grandparents' social media profiles private. Make them all private where just random people can't add you and search for you. And then verify. It's the old saying, the trust but verify kind of thing. If you want to trust everyone that's telling you all this information, at least verify it. So, like, if someone's on the phone with you, someone's hacked your account, someone, you know, there's a hacker on your account, whatever it may be, hang up the phone and verify with somebody else. Verify the information. Scammers do not want you to verify anything. They want you to stay on the phone with them. They want to stay connected to you. They want to keep talking to you. That's one of my tactics I use all the time is I hang up the phone and it puts stress Into them, so then you can manipulate them. It's all like a social engineering game of like back and forth. So verify the information that they're telling you. Don't let someone remote into your computer or phone. If if there's some random person that has eyes on any of your accounts, like if someone's remoted in and they're asking you to log into something that is not.

genuine. Um, so verify, you know, make some of your stuff private. The other thing I would do is like try to get off of like data brokers.

How do you do that?

There's services that will take your information and they will opt you out of data broker sites. And it takes, I think it's 30 or 45 days for them to be taken off. Um, we work with a number of different companies. I know Ryan's got one too. So like, get your information. It should be like, I call it cyber hygiene. It should be a part of your cyber hygiene because that's something we have to do to protect ourselves is get our information off the internet. As far as scams, again, some of the things I was saying, verifying information. Another thing that's cyber hygiene in my opinion is get a secure email, a secure email like that's not in the United States. That's like, again, a secure email that with encrypted data that governments can't get into.

You got any recommendations?

I use Proton. They're not sponsoring what I'm saying. I just, I use them. We have a relationship with them. I know their CEO, Andy Yen, and like, they're like, they're really good about protecting their customers. And I'm sure there'll be someone in the comments saying no, whatever, like, but they're very solid. They're out in Switzerland. So, um, the last thing I'll say, so like your email is super important. You don't want governments and companies scanning your email for data. It's ridiculous. Your personal messages and stuff. The final thing is password management. So have good passwords. And store them securely and use 2-factor authentication.

And how do you store them securely? What do you mean by that?

Like a password manager. I wouldn't necessarily— I mean, Apple has one on their iPhone and people probably freak out about that, but they have a fairly solid one if you want to just do that. I wouldn't say use Google's password protector or password saver in your computer. There's all sorts of password services. Some of them have been hacked, of course. Like, that just is what it is.

Mm-hmm.

But I would much rather have something that's creating like super random passwords that I can store somewhere that is protected by my face to be able to get into it from my face or a key. Like, you could go really crazy and have a key to be able to get your passwords, like a physical device. But being able to have really random passwords that are very long and hard to crack is super easy security. And in case there's a data breach, like, I'll tell a really quick story. My wife and I had— there was a— we didn't even know there was a data breach at the time, but I started getting notifications on my credit card from Target, and it was Target up in New York. And I'm like, what the heck? So we went to our Target account and saw that somebody was buying stuff on target.com, like TVs and stuff, and just for pickup in New York. And it was because there was a data breach from a different app, and that data breach had a password. This was many years ago, a password of my wife's. They used that password to go onto Target and it worked.

And then a credit card was stored in target.com. So what I'm getting at is if there's a data breach and you have different passwords for all sorts of different things versus like one password, then you will be protected. Is that— if that makes sense. Instead of having just one for everything, my cat's name with one at the end of it, like, yeah, you know, change it up a little bit.

And when you say verify everything, what do you mean by that?

Yeah, so, um, if you're on the phone with someone and they're saying, hey Grandma, it's Brenda, I'm hurt. I need you to go to the bank and get out cash because they have to pay for my hospital bills. Please, you have to hurry. Someone's coming to the house. Please, I'm in trouble. Hang up the phone and call Brenda or call Brenda's mom if you're a grandma or a grandpa. Verify the information. There's been so many stories where I've heard the grandma scam and someone calls grandma up and says, or grandma calls someone up and says, hey, was that you? Is everything okay? Yeah, everything's fine. Well, that's crazy. I got a phone call. And by the time all that stuff happens, they'll know the scammer is just done. It's like a numbers game. The other one would be like the investment scams, like the pig butchering that I've been talking about. If you talked with anybody else, hey, this is happening. I'm investing in crypto and it's a 2,500% return. Even though if you looked at Bitcoin right now, it's not a 2,500% return. So yours is going to be 2,500%? Just doesn't make sense logically.

Or some kind of business or even the S&P 500 or something, right? Or ETFs. There's no crazy returns like that. So verify with somebody, have a conversation. This person, how did you find this person? Well, they reached out to me on Facebook. That's a red flag. They messaged me on Instagram. That's a red flag.

Yeah.

They—

there's an email in the spam folder and it said I won a prize and I clicked on it and they want $500. I know these sound crazy, but these are things that happen and it's a numbers game for scammers. So if you're one of the targets, which everyone will be a target of a scammer, whether it's, you know, someone trying to get you to invest money, Because you want to be a millionaire and you want to get money fast, or a grandma that thinks she's talking to, you know, Brad Pitt and he's on an oil rig overseas and needs money to get back home. These are all real things that have happened to people. Like, whatever the spectrum is, you got to like verify the information with people.

Right on.

Yeah.

It's crazy, man. That's crazy. Seeing, seeing like, just seeing it live, a 70-year-old, a 78-year-old woman like getting ripped off real time like that, it's just like, it enrages me. Yeah, these people don't give a shit.

I mean, my heart sunk when I saw the wire transfer pending. Like, it makes my heart race thinking about it because now the responsibility is on me if I don't stop it. And we're going to stop it. But it's crazy that this happens everywhere. This probably happens 100 times over today, man.

Man.

Yeah.

But I think for— what do they say? For, like, every— for, I guess, for evil, there's good, or for darkness, there's light. So I think that we are providing resistance. against like these kind of bad forces, that they're not just trying to make ends meet. They are stealing. They are siphoning away our money from the US, from our innocent citizens.

Damn. Well, you're doing solid work, man.

Thanks, man.

Real solid work. Thank you for what you're doing.

Thank you.

That's That's amazing.

We have a, we have a really good team. I would— it's not just me. We have an incredible team, incredible minds, and there's a great community of people that fight like shoulder to shoulder with me against these people.

I'd love to meet them sometime.

Yeah.

You know, so thank them for me. Thank you. You know, if you guys are watching this, but, but wow, that is Great. You're a great person, man. You're a great person.

Thank you for having me on. This has been like, really awesome, really awesome experience. And I hope that people will learn about like what to maybe look for, maybe be inspired to have a conversation with somebody else to reduce their loved ones from being scammed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, my message to the audience would be share this with everybody, you know, to help, help raise awareness. And, and yeah, man, you want to end with a prayer?

Sure.

You want to lead it?

Yeah, for sure.

Let's do it.

Lord Jesus, we just come to you right now with ultimate humility. We honor you. We honor your name, Jesus, for all the blessing, for what you represent of light and love and togetherness and peace and the sacrifice you made for us in our lives to bring us deliverance, to bring us healing, to bring us sozo, to bring us salvation, and to give us authority and power over the dark forces of this earth. And Lord, I bless my brother Sean and his family, and we plead the blood of Jesus over him and his family, and we pray Psalm 91 over him and his family, that the angels hold him and his family in their hands. And for the audience that listens, Lord, that some may be far away from You, or some may have conviction to come back to You, Lord, that Their lives will be blessed, and they will repent, and they will run from what has held them back in life from knowing You more and living out a life with You as their Lord and Savior. Lord God, I thank You for this day today, the togetherness, the opportunity to have conversation and to connect with others and to connect with the audience, and put together this video and have this conversation today, Lord God.

I hope it blesses your name and brings honor to you and glory to you. You are the King. You are the name above every name, and we thank you for all the works that you have done and how you have a completed work and a finished work for our lives so that we can live in authority and live in goodness, righteousness, and holiness. Lord Jesus, we bless your name. We thank you.

Amen.

for the cross. And we pray goodness and mercy over the audience and over our lives moving forward. And we thank you for all the blessing. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

Amen.

Rogie, thank you, my friend.

Thank you, brother.

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