Transcript of #272 Elizabeth Phillips - Inside Camp Kanakuk: One of America’s Darkest Child Summer Camps

Foreign. Elizabeth Phillips, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me.

You're welcome. Been looking forward to this.

Same.

But, yeah, so interest. I think it was a couple months ago, I think maybe late October, sometime in November, Tim Tebow called me and told me about your situation, what you're doing, the laws that you're getting passed. And. And he told me about what happened with your brother who was sexually abused at Camp Canicook in Missouri. And Tim asked me if. If I would be interested in doing an interview with you. And. And so when he told me about the situation, immediately I was like, yep, I'm in. Let's do it. This is a topic that we've covered several times on this show, and I think a lot of people are scared to talk about this subject. I don't know why. I don't know what's more important than saving our kids, but we're here for it, and so thank you for being here. This is going to be a very heavy interview. And, man, I've just heard amazing things about Camp Canicook. In fact, one of the. Of the. One of. One of. One of our team members here today has been there. I think she said she's been going there since she was three years old.

And. Yeah.

But thanks for being willing to have the conversation and to enter the darkness a little bit so we can expose it.

Yeah.

And God bless Tim for the intro. God bless you for wanting to have the conversation. I'm grateful to anyone who will let me talk about this and who's. Who cares?

You want to start with a prayer? Yeah, let's do it.

All right. I work with a lot of survivors who are pursuing sobriety, so I'm going to read the Serenity prayer, if that's cool.

Perfect. It's my wife's favorite prayer.

Awesome.

It's 15 years sober.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Okay. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference, living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time, accepting hardships as the pathway to peace, that I may be reasonably happy in this life and supremely happy forever in the next. Amen.

Amen. Thank you. Thank you. All right, I'm going to give you an introduction. Everybody starts with an introduction. Elizabeth Phillips, leading voice on reforming how the legal system treats survivors of child sexual abuse. Younger brother Trey died by suicide in 2019 at age 28 after a civil settlement with Camp Canicook that included a restrictive NDA. Founder of no More Victims, an advocacy organization that passes child protection laws. In 2025, you passed Trey's Law in Texas and in Missouri, led the campaign for Camp Safety with a coalition of parents who lost their daughters on July 4, 2025, at Camp mystic to pass Kevin's 27 camp safety and Youth Camper Acts. You served as the executive director of the Phillips foundation since 2013. Wife to Kevin, mother of three. And most importantly, you're a Christian. And this is the first time you've spoken publicly about this collective work and what's ahead. So once again, thank you. All right, a couple things to knock out here real quick. I have a Patreon account. It's a subscription account. We've turned it into one hell of a community, and they're the reason that I get to sit here with you today.

So one of the things I do is I offer them the opportunity to ask every guest a question. This is from Murphy. You've turned unimaginable personal loss into meaningful, systemic change. What was the turning point when advocacy shifted from something you were doing in your brother's memory to something that defined your life's work?

It's a great question, Murphy. It kind of gives me chills, because I think I'm in that moment right now, like, realizing this is my life's work. I just can't unsee what I've seen. And this part of my mission started with my brother's death. And I knew I had to turn that pain into something powerful, something purposeful. And then I started getting into it and realized there are all these survivors suffering in the shadows. So it's so much bigger than Trey, so much bigger than me now. I will fight for these now, friends. And we've had a lot of allies and advocates join the forces, too, to make sure that we are protecting kids at a systems level. And that requires policy change. And I didn't start there, but that's where I've landed. Because once you start peeling back the layers, you realize we have to change laws to make any progress on this stuff, man.

Well, thank you for what you're doing. It's good to be in the fight.

We always say it's a sacred honor. It's hard to say, oh, it's a pleasure. It's not a pleasure. Yeah, this is hard. And that's why. Yeah, people don't want to talk about it. You, um. So I'm going to talk about it. I'm not going to shut up about it. Someone has to talk about it, and that's how we turn the tide.

Not very many people talk about it, but a whole lot of people listen. So I think that's. That's definitely a net positive.

Yeah.

But. All right. One more thing, man. This seems so inappropriate, but everybody gets a gift.

Yes.

There you go. Vigilance Elite Gummy Bears. Made in the USA in Michigan. Legal in all 50 states, at least right now.

But my kids are gonna love these.

I'll give you a couple more.

Thank you. We're big gummy bear people.

Right on.

Right. I brought you some stuff. Oh, my love. Language is gifts.

Me too.

And confrontation and justice. But okay. A few things here.

Perfect.

I have to work with lobbyists who I call my boots on the ground, so they all get this when we pass a law. I got you this one. Monogram. Shawn Ryan show.

Dude, that's awesome.

It's technically a wine cooler, but I put. My husband has a regenerative farm, and he's Texas, and they make these, like, jerky sticks.

Cool.

So that's what's in here. Since I know you don't drink, and now I know Katie doesn't either.

Thank you.

But, yeah, we're going to give the boot to child predators today. You needed that.

I love this.

Then I. To be honest, until Tim Tebow told me about this show, I'd never heard of you.

And so that's refreshing.

Oh. And then because our phones listen to us all of a sudden, like, Sean Ryan shows my entire algorithm. And so I circled the wagons with a few of the survivors I work with just to say I'm going on this podcast. I'm talking about Kanakuk. Because any media exposure is going to be out there, and it could be triggering. Right. I just want them to have a heads up. And so two of the current plaintiffs in active fraud litigation against Kanakuk, they've been sued for fraud, and then also all this abuse, too. One of them was like, I love Sean Ryan, and do you think you could take. He just started a tequila company. Do you think you could take him some of my tequila? And so we've got that here, too. I love the branding. It's called point blank Tequila.

Nice.

And he said his message. This is a reposado in a blanco. He said his message today that he wanted me to pass along is that survivors can heal and live full lives. And he's got a wife and kids, successful in real estate, and also started a side hustle tequila business.

Oh, man. So I love that.

This is from Andrew Somerset. Fighting for justice, making tequila along the way.

Thank you. Super cool. Thank you. Those will be in the studio, too.

Awesome.

I'm not going to drink them, but somebody might.

Well, you have quite the collection.

Look awesome in here.

This is also swag from my husband's farm, says, come and take it. This is their logo.

Nice. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you. All right, so, Elizabeth, if. If you don't mind it and just give us a very brief summary of what we're about to dive into, and then. And then we'll get into the whole thing. Just want to give the audience a little snapshot of what they're in for here.

Okay. So my family grew up in evangelical circles, and Canicut Camps was the place for summer camp in the 90s, 2000s. And so we all went there. My brother Trey was unfortunately groomed and horribly sexually abused and what we now believe, also trafficked by this mega ministry based out of southwest Missouri. He ended his life in 2019. And I've been on a journey ever since to find out what happened to my brother. And then that led down this path of what's up with Kanakuk? And then what's up with summer camps in general? And so I've been like Erin Brockovich ing this whole situation of, like, how do we get to the bottom of what's going on here? And then how do we prevent it in the future? Speaking specifically about institutional child sexual abuse.

It's gonna get heavy. All right. Where did you grow up?

We're gonna laugh, we're gonna cry. We're gonna feel all the things. I know I'm going to cry because talking about my brother is the hardest part of this for me. I. I can talk about statistics and stuff all day, but I'm here because I lost a sibling under really horrible circumstances that he didn't deserve.

I'm sorry.

Thanks. You've lost a lot of people, too.

I have. Where did you grow up?

So we grew up, and I was born in Boston. Dad was in grad school up there. We moved to Tampa, Florida, and then to Dallas and then Atlanta and then back to Dallas. So I changed schools eight times before college.

Wow.

Yeah. Always the new kid. Kind of sink or swim, right? But ended up, I mean, yeah, high school especially, had a great experience. Ended up class president as the new kid.

Wow.

I always say I peaked in high school. And that's the extent of my interest in politics was I actually, I have to plan our 20 year reunion this year. Snuck up on me.

Nice.

I ran my campaign on that. I would throw better class reunions than my opponent. So I've got to deliver on my campaign pledge from 2006.

Right on. Anyways, when did you start going to Kuk?

Oh, so back then, I think it started age six, seven. My kids are going to go six, seven. Did you age six or seven? I went seven years myself.

You did?

Yeah.

What was. I mean, what is it? I. I'd never heard of it until. Until I heard.

Well, that's what Tim told me. You never heard of it? I. I looked you up when he mentioned your name and it said you were from Missouri. And I was like, well, he's probably heard of Kanakuk. And Tim was like, no, he hadn't heard about it. So it's the large Catholic.

Yeah, we don't do these things.

Well, they do offer a catholic mass for the very small group.

Well, I guess we do do these.

Things that go to Kanakuk. But this camp has been around 100 years and it's been under the White family's leadership since the 1950s. In the 70s that became Joe White and his wife Debbie. Joe White. And it's an evangelical sports camp. Ton of Christian celebrities have gone there, sent their kids there, performed there. It was the place. In the 90s, you were considered kind of upper class. And it's expensive. I mean, thousands of dollars to go there for a week. Attracted kids from all over the country. They claim all 50 states and several countries abroad to Taney County, Missouri, southwest Missouri, every summer, driving about 25,000 families to that part of the state.

What town is it? Is this in Springfield?

You fly into Springfield? If you fly, but it's in the greater Branson area. Yeah. Have you ever been to Branson?

Oh, yeah.

It's like a Christian Las Vegas. Yeah, it's so wild.

The only theme park I've ever been to that doesn't sell any booze.

Yeah. Silver Dollar City.

Yeah.

I was like, what's that calling it? Silver dollar City? Exactly. So like, yeah, the whole Canicuk situation is like that show Ozark meets Righteous gemstones. If you've seen those shows and you've got Joe White, who's this big character and people worshiped him next to God. And he was really high profile in the 90s and wrote, I mean, 14 at least, books published by Focus on the family. They've sent. Focus on the family's taken all of that down since this has been exposed. But he was a megastar stadium speaker. Like, he would give the commencement at Liberty university's graduation or whatever. He would go to Promise Keepers events and be a featured speaker at those types of conferences.

So the guy that runs the whole thing.

Yeah, still he's. Still, he's the CEO and his own board chair. We'll get into why that's problematic. But. So 500,000 alumni. So 500,000 kids have gone through this camp. 50,000 staff, roughly. This is, you know, from what they've reported. And then they have, you know, they're not your mom and pop shop camp. They have year round ministries. They have K Life, which is. It was in over 20 cities. I think that's dwindled down to maybe 17 since we started exposing stuff. Sorry. Not sorry. But that's how they recruit campers. Year round is these weekly Bible studies through K Life and then you can go to camp. They also have. I mean it's a whole trajectory from starting at camp at a young age. Then after camp you can become a counselor. But between high school and college, they also offer something called Link year, like this gap year program and that's run by a guy named Adam Donye under the Kennecook Ministries umbrella. And Link year also has Link Academy and Link Hoops. Link Hoops is a basketball academy. They're one of the top in the country now actually. But people don't realize they're tied to Kennecook.

Then they have a segregated camp for urban youth that's called kids across America and Urban youth. Yeah, they used to say inner city children. Oh, now it's okay. Urban youth basically like black kids. And so they have kids across America for that. They have then the full paying tuition camps that are majority white kids. They're next door to each other. They have historically had a camp in Colorado that no longer exists.

Why not?

That shut down. There was a divorce in the family. Joe White's daughter, she still is like the director of alumni engagement for the camp, but her ex husband, they got divorced and I think it just kind of fizzled. But yeah, so massive present they. They claim to have a presence in over 50 international locations. It's concerning. We'll get into why. And Joe White brands himself as an author and a speaker. He has Dr. Joe White on some of his book covers. He's not a doctor.

Oh boy, here we go.

One of those. And this is.

We'll get into it.

Yeah, we'll get into it then. Yeah. Through his books and his speaking tours, he's known for his crucifixion reenactments. Yeah. So it's called cross talk. And at camp there'd be one Night where there's like a bonfire, like a burning cross and. Yeah, bonfire cross. And you nail your sins to the cross and everyone's weeping. These are like 7 year old kids in some of the camps. And Joe White, when he's a double amputee now, he's physically unable to do this, but he used to like carry the cross and be Jesus and then he would like use a chainsaw or an ax and like cut up a cross, build a cross and like present the gospel message. And it triggered an emotional reaction in a lot of kids. So they were like, yes, I'll accept Christ, yes, I don't want to go to hell. In my opinion, like kind of an unnecessary way to bring kids to Christianity. But they do a lot of that kind of stuff. And it started out as a boys camp in 1926 in the Ozarks. Can a cut camps for boys. And then they opened a girls camp in 1958, Kanacomo.

So the boys are called Cucks and the girls are called comos.

Okay.

And it's co ed now.

So now it's all canicuk.

Now it's all Kanakuk. But then they have different canicuk camps. So I mentioned kids across America for that socioeconomic level. And then there's K country, which is where the super predator was. He was the director. I hate it when the media reports him as a counselor. Like he was just a random counselor. No, he was the heir apparent to Joe White's throne.

What?

Yeah, he's in prison for three life terms. My brother's perpetrator. But he was going to be the next Joe White. He was the rainmaker. But that's his camp, K country. And that's like elementary age children. And then there's K west for like preteens, 12 to 14 year olds. There's K1, where you can go for a month. And that's after you graduate from K country. There's K7, which used to just be one week and you like stayed in teepees. And then there's K2, which is for the teens. And that's a month long thing. So there's a lot of different camps within the Kanakuk camps umbrella. And they call it Kanakuk ministries now because they have all sorts of other programming. Like I mentioned, like the basketball academy. They spun off a tech platform called circuitry.

So this is, this is a huge. This is an empire. This isn't some camp.

35 to 45 million in annual revenue.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay. Wow. We talk a lot on this show about protecting your family and being prepared for the worst case scenario. But there's one area of protection that a lot of us, myself included for a long time, tend to procrastinate on. And that's life insurance. I've had term life insurance for several years now and I remember the exact moment I realized I needed it. It was right around the time my son was born. I started thinking about the mortgage, the kids education and all the expenses I'd want covered if the unthinkable happens. And I'm not here to provide for them anymore. But having a plan in place is what actually allows you to breathe easier. If you've been putting this off because you think it's too expensive or too much of a hassle, you need to check out Fabric by Gerber Life. Fabric by Gerber Life is term life insurance you can get done today. Made for busy parents like you. All online on your schedule, right from your couch. You could be covered in under 10 minutes with no health exam required. A lot of people assume their work life insurance is enough, but most policies don't provide nearly enough coverage and don't follow you if you leave your job for Fabric offers affordable, high quality life insurance like a million dollars in coverage for less than a dollar a day.

Fabric is partnered with Gerber Life, trusted by families just like yours for over 50 years. And Fabric is rated excellent on Trustpilot with over 19005 star reviews. There's no risk. You get a 30 day money back guarantee and you can cancel at any time. Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to help protect their family. Apply today in just minutes@meetfabric.com Shawn that's meatfabric.com Sean M E E T fabric.com Sean Policies issued by Western Southern Life Assurance Company not available in certain states. Prices subject to underwriting and health questions. This started in the 1920s, 1926. And this guy's still alive. He's still running it, so. Or he took it over from, he.

Took it over from his dad in the 70s, but it was started by a guy named C.L. ford out of Dallas. And then he handed it off to this guy, Coach Bill Lance. And then that guy handed it over to Spike White, Joe White's dad. And then Joe White went to smu. I went to SMU in Dallas too. And he got a biology degree, undergrad. So when he says doctor on his books, there's no PhD, there's like no seminary degree. It's like an honorary doctorate and like an honorary.

Yeah.

Whatever. But he. Yeah, he rides on that pretty hard. And he's branded himself as America's expert on teenagers, on teen purity.

Sounds like it.

He's written books called, like, Pure Excitement about teen purity and multiple of them. Like, very obsessed with, like, sex and purity. And I think for someone who's in his mid-70s, it's getting a little creepy.

Is he. I mean, we're going to get into all of it, but I mean, what. What is it? What is. What is the. What is the experience? I mean, what. What do. What do. Kids that aren't abused, what did you come home and say about it? What is your experience there? I'm just curious. I mean, what do you do there?

My whole family was groomed during my experience. So, like, there are people who had great experiences. I look back on mine and I'm like, well, that was just. They were grooming our whole family. But I mean, there's so many fun things to do on the water. It's like prime real estate along these lakes in the Ozarks. Lake Taneycomo. And there's like, part of it that's on a different lake. Table Rock Lake Adventures. They take kids spelunking. There's. You can choose a sport, kind of like you choose a major in college. You choose major. Like, I would do dance or like, boys could choose if they wanted to do basketball or football. And they've turned out some great athletes, actually. And a lot of NFL players have sent their kids there because it's a good football program. You have no access to watches or telephones. And so if there is something that goes wrong, it's very hard to reach the outside world. And I think that's how abuse proliferated. Not that kids should have phones and at cam, not saying that, but like, it's pretty locked down and strict. Like, you're up at this time, you clean your cabin, you.

A lot of devotionals and prayer time and talks, you know, preaching and. And then some of it's really fun, you know, just rotating throughout the day of you got tennis and then you got canoeing, and then you're going to make a craft. And then there's themed parties at night. So that's when the boys and the girls interact. Is that these theme parties at night and they'll send you the list of what the themes are going to be so you can pack your trunk for camp with, like, fun costumes for the theme nights. And so I actually, I hated it. I hated camp. Like, the first few years, I was just super Homesick. I liked it more as I got older, but I had no idea what was going on with the. The abuse. It was. Now, in hindsight, it was interesting how I got Kickapoo Princess at K Country under Pete Newman's directorship. I always got the best dancer award. I wasn't the best dancer. Like, things like that. Just to show favoritism to our family. Whenever they have this thing called Winter Trail, I think they still do it where they travel around in the off season and go to different people's homes to fundraise and to recruit, like these marketing events.

They would always want to stay at our house, and we'd host things for them in Dallas. We let them borrow our car to go to a church, you know, out in one of the suburbs and do their presentation there. So we were definitely targeted. And they targeted a lot of families that, you know, had influence or money and stuff. And so it's a little bit different than what you typically hear in these situations where, um, it's children that are vulnerable because they've been in foster care or they have, you know, they're in poverty or something. This. They were targeting, like, the elite evangelical crowd.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Why do you. Why. Why do you think they were targeting that crowd? I'm just curious.

No, because they're all about money. So, like, it started out as a nonprofit, and then they conveniently restructured at certain key dates when.

If it's all about the money, why would you target the people with the money's kids?

Because they wanted to make you feel VIP and special and then offer, you know, hunting trips or, you know, dry White flies around on his private plane. And are you.

I'm talking about. Were you targeted? Was your family targeted because they wanted to abuse your brother or for the money or for both.

Oh, both. So, like, I feel like for Joe White, we were targeted because we had a nice house and could host events for them and donate to the ministry. And then with Pete Newman, my brother's perpetrator, he was grooming, like, you know, giving us that special treatment at his camp also because, you know, they wanted our donations, but because he wanted Trey.

So these are unrelated. It's too targeted, I think.

I think at a. You know, if you look at the whole case, it does seem kind of coordinated.

Okay. Jeez.

Yeah.

How many kids would go to this at once?

So their materials have cited numbers like 27,000 teenagers per summer.

27,000 teenagers per summer.

25,000 families go to Branson every year for summer camp, or I think more Recently, I've seen numbers cited as, like, 10,000. So I don't know if that's like, dwindling or they're just. Were they exaggerating their numbers? But we're talking. It's not like a. Again, not a typical mom and pop shop kind of camp. This is a mega ministry. It's the largest summer camp in the world.

I mean, we have. It's. It's put 500,000 people through, but that would only be 20 years worth of kids. I mean, I know it grow. And we're talking about. It's been a hundred years.

Well, yeah, but, like, they are repeat customers, right? So, like, okay, people go through high school, okay. And then sometimes they'll do link year, and then they'll go to college and be a counselor there. And then on the other side of college, you can do the Kanakuk Institute, which they've called like a master's in ethics, ironically. And so you can. The pipeline is. That's why it's jokingly called the can occult. And from my research, I don't even joke about. It's like the can occult, Right. They keep you in, they suck you in, and you stay there to the point where people feel financially held hostage. It's wild. And so that's the. That's the pipeline. You know, from early childhood through adulthood, there's always a place for you at Kanakuk. And so then you go to the institute, then you can, like, work at Kanakuk beyond that in the leadership role.

Wow.

So a lot of their staff, you know, they've grown up in this and.

And stayed 100% bought in.

100% bought in. Even those that have kids that were victimized. It's crazy white. That's where it's like, you know, that's the cult piece of it. Right. It's like, why would you stay at an institution where your own child was abused?

This sounds like the Jehovah's Witnesses. This is crazy.

It's crazy.

Yeah. Where do we go from here?

I mean, what do you want to know? I. I have five years. I mean, I can go through kind of like how we started this investigation out and where we are now. And, like.

Let's talk about what happened.

Yeah, let's go back. Okay. So my husband and I, we were living in North Carolina in our 20s. I'd spent a lot of time.

Are you older or younger than your.

I'm the oldest.

You're the oldest?

Yeah, I'm big older. Three years.

Okay.

And I had gone to SMU graduated a year early, went over to Uganda to help start up a social enterprise, and did that off and on for six years. Started having babies. Commute got a little hard to Uganda with babies, and we moved to North Carolina, where my husband's from, to run the family business on his side, which came with a newly endowed foundation, the Phillips foundation, which I've been running since 2013. And so we had day jobs, we were having kids, and my brother was really struggling. I remember being pregnant with my first son, and I would get these calls from my mom or my dad, and they'd be like, we just had to put Trey in treatment. He's not doing well. And it was just a roller coaster until he died. But I didn't really know what had happened to Trey. I remember when. When he was 21, Pete Newman was arrested, so I would have been 24. Pete Newman was arrested and ultimately sentenced to three life terms.

Arrested for what?

Seven felony counts of child sexual abuse.

Seven felony accounts of child sexual abuse at Camp Canicook.

Yeah. And I balk it at Camp Canicuk because these boys were abused all over the place. Okay, so it wasn't just at camp. It was in their own home. Sometimes it was on mission trips to China where he would film them getting massages. So we're talking child sexual abuse material being created that never got investigated. It was investigated by the Taney County Sheriff's Department, and they never looked into Pete Newman's devices for ccm. When we have witnesses who were on those trips saying, we saw Pete Newman filming these boys getting massages and having the massage therapists activate their groin areas so he could film it. So they were abused all over the place. There were trips to Haiti, you know, in the name of Kennecock, International mission trips. There were, I mean, Trinidad and Tobago, all over the world. And so where was I with that? The. Basically, like, my. I didn't really know the extent of what happened to my brother until. So he was not doing well. And then he decided to pursue civil litigation against Kanakuk. After the criminal case closed, he was named as a victim. Right. When Pete Newman got arrested, Joe White flew down on his private plane to Dallas and asked for a meeting with my dad and Trey.

Man to man. Like, leave my mom out of it. He didn't want an angry mom involved. And this was before the story really broke. And he was like, it's going to come out that Pete Newman was abusing boys, but it was really just boys being boys. Typical middle school masturbation. And experimentation, like, minimized it, downplayed it with my brother Trey right there, basically saying, here's the story. And you're sticking to. Wasn't a big deal.

Now, do you think this guy knew that your brother was abused?

Yeah, because he was on a list. Pete Newman provided a list of victims.

So this is after he was arrested.

This was. So the exact chronology is like, March 2009. He confesses to Kanakuk leadership that he's been abusing boys.

What year? What year?

2009. March 2009. And he'd been caught multiple times before. Skinny dipping, riding four wheelers nude with boys.

Go ahead.

I know they caught him in 1999. In 2001 and 2003 and 2000.

Jeff White.

Joe White.

Yeah, Joe White. We can call him Jeff, whatever. Joe White has a. Has the head guy of all these kids riding. Riding around four wheelers naked with them.

Yeah. And it gets reported back to the camp. Like, they knew that stuff was happening. And in one of the depositions as the.

So they just sweep the shit under the rug, and they don't even tell them, don't do it again.

They're like, oh, that's just boys being.

Boys, boys being boys.

And. Well, I can show you what they did to discipline him. I have the record here, but basically.

See it.

Yeah, we'll pull it out, but real quick. So, like, the four wheeler thing, the naked basketball, the nude swimming. Joe White was asked in a deposition, like, you don't think that is child sexual abuse? Like, Pete Newman naked in front of these young boys. And Joe White's response was, well, it depends on how dark it was. If they could see his penis.

People still send their kids to this place.

Exactly. Like thousands of people.

Yeah. I'll bet that stops after this releases.

I hope so, because kids are in danger there. And I think that's why Tim wanted us to talk. This is what they. A few things going on.

That guy does not care about anything more than saving kids.

Right. And I'll talk more about what we're partnering on together to protect kids. But this is one example of how they disciplined Pete Newman when he was in those situations with boys. They called it boys being boys. And he. Actually, there's a document where. Here it is. They made him take a test, And then they made him sign a contract to spend more time with his wife. Not spend so much time in the hot tub. A lot of the abuse would happen in the hot tubs. And then this is. They sent him to a counselor who gave him this Questionnaire.

List three reasons why camp counselors sometimes get accused of inappropriate conduct with campers. It's hard to read his handwriting.

Yeah, that's all Pete Newman's handwriting.

Conduct has been inappropriate. Child has past abuse experiences that stimulate fear. They are careless in ministry strategy and uneducated. List three good ways to avoid accusations of improper sexual conduct toward a camper. 1. Avoid alone time with kids of opposite sex. Avoid sexual humor inappropriate jokes. Never have alone sleepovers. List three things former President Clinton did wrong regarding his encounter with Monica Lewinsky Cheated on his wife. Lied about it. Failed to set the example of what a leader should look like.

Not bizarre. And then flip to the back, just turn the whole thing over and on the the very back page. Is it the next one on the very back page.

Pete Newman Objective to help Pete understand what healthy ministry is and to make sure Pete never places himself in a compromising position that his integrity would be in question, we want to ensure that Pete be involved in a lifetime of ministry. Overall Boundaries for Ministry all high school Ministry ends at 10pm All Junior High Ministry ends at 9pm Never show up at home unannounced. Never encourage students to disregard disregard other responsibilities to be with you like school, family or a job. Failure in these areas will disqualify you from ministry privileges. All contact with kids will be done in public, never in private without parent permission. Exception Picking up the first child and dropping off the last child from an event. You must have parents permission. Never spend the light Never spend the night alone with a child. Never be involved in sexual humor. Never suggest or be involved with any sexual or nude behavior. Never touch a child in a way that might be perceived is sexual in nature. Always put a stop to inappropriate behavior that is sexual physical nudity, vulgar speech inappropriate humor. Failures in these will lead to instant dismissal. Incomplete reporting of the incident.

Boundaries on local Extra camp ministry limited to three nights a week Club leadership Small group one weekend a month two small group Bible studies one lunch a week summertime Boundaries Regular accountability with Will Cunningham. The amount of time can be determined later. These times might include physical workouts, biblical mentoring, detailed discussions of feelings about ministry life, Katie, kids personal worth, etc. No further visits from out of state kids. No sleepovers, I. E. Events that required Pete to spend the night alone with one or more kids. Period. Noticeable change in the way Pete budgets his time. Regular time with Katie that must be his wife Regular time spent with peers as opposed to a lopsided inordinate amount of time spent with kids.

What this is how they Disciplined him.

And they sign it. He signed it.

And what's the date?

1022 03.

They knew in 03. What normal person needs a document like that? And they also have these like playbooks, these staff playbooks.

This is.

I know that's their.

Anybody that's sending their kids to camp. Can of cook. You need to read this.

Yeah.

They're literally. They have to try to coax their counselors into not having a sleepover alone with your child.

What normal person needs that rebuke? So in March 2009. Oh, so this, this year. 03. They obviously he was escalating. Right. His behavior. And so they, they restructured. And Kanakuk had been a for profit. They restructured to become a non profit. Right. They're realizing they have liability. They hire this guy named Rick Brashler as the director of risk. Risk management. He's a former Pizza Hut manager and insurance broker to churches.

I thought you were going to say Pizzagate. Shit my pants.

So he comes over from Pizza Hut and he's suddenly the director of risk management. That's in 03. And then they catch Pete Newman again in 06. Somewhere between 03 and 06, his supervisor, will Cunningham.

What is it with pizza and little kids? What's the thing?

Can you have someone on to answer that for us? So Rick is. He has no qualifications in child protection or anything. And he's supposed to sharpen up the protocols for these bad act that they are keeping on staff. And not just that, Pete Newman got promoted after that. So not only did they not report him to the authorities properly or fire him, they promoted him to director of K country. He was assistant director then director of K country. Will Cunningham, who was his supervisor, recommended his termination. And then he got squeezed out slowly and left Kanakuk. He's been very helpful to survivors in their cases. Now because he's like, I told them to fire the guy. Red flags all over the place. More than red flags that Joe White knew about. So then there's this. There are a few theories around how he ended up turning himself in in March 2009. But one thing I've heard, and I know this guy in Dallas, I've heard the story directly from him. His dad was a sitting U.S. congressman and he had sponsored a kid to go with Pete to some retreat in Alabama. The kid called back, said he tried to assault me.

So that guy calls Pete and he says, I'm gonna have the FBI on your doorstep tomorrow morning. Say goodbye to your wife Katie and your kid. They had A daughter. My family threw their baby shower in Dallas.

Whoa.

So the person I'm.

Your family threw his baby shower?

Yeah. It was considered an honor.

Holy.

And so anyways, Pete turns himself into the Taney County Sheriff's department. It should have been FBI from the beginning, and it wasn't. It was a Taney County Sheriff's department investigation. It was the local victims that put him away. The prosecutor at the time, Jeff Merrill, he said there were 55ish victims known at the time of sentencing, but he estimated a true victim count in the hundreds on Pete Newman alone. Pete's now one of over 75 perpetrators associated with Kanakuk. We know of now through my investigation.

We'll go into that, but can you say that again?

Pete's one of over 75 perpetrators affiliated with kennecook that we've uncovered to date with allegations dating back from 1958 to very recently. So that's Pete. 55 victims known at time of sentencing. Prosecutor estimating true victim count in the hundreds. Other experts would say thousands. Just because he was. He had unfettered access to children year round for 14 years. Add that to his, you know, moda operandi of, like, how he would abuse. So, yeah, hundreds, thousands of victims. Pete Newman alone, and then.

Hundreds to thousands of victims for Pete Newman alone.

Right?

Alone, yeah.

So Cannon Cook's crisis PR strategy on all that was. Well, we can't let one bad apple take down this ministry. We've saved so many souls.

Tim had said he was saying something in court on the stand too, I believe. Believe. I don't know if it was Pete Newman because I wasn't familiar with any of the names.

Oh, he said something in his remarks in court that don't let what I did take down this whole ministry. Kanakuk's good for kids. It's the happiest place on earth, blah, blah, blah. He, you know, did his whole spiel can occur. So he goes to prison for the white.

Probably had him say that, huh?

Yeah. Who knows? So then he goes to prison at Jefferson City Correctional Center. The address for that is 8,000. No more victims lane. That's why I call this. I call it operation Millstone because of a verse in the Bible that says, if you are a child, you're better off with a millstone around your neck thrown into the bottom of the sea. So I call everything I'm working on related to this Operation Millstone. But there's. What was I going to say? There's a. Oh, so their crisis PR strategy was there's one. This was one bad apple. We can't let him destroy this entire ministry. It's the first time this has ever happened. We are so shocked. We now know of perpetrators, like going back to the very first year they opened the girls camp. And then third, we're now the safest camp in America because we have learned the hard way how this could happen. And they started this Kanakuk child protection plan that's now been spewed to over 600 youth serving organizations across the country. It was accredited by the Beau Biden foundation. And then they tried to get some other like, accreditations on their website to look legit after they've had this massive pedophile scandal.

They put the Kanakuk child protection plan in place and, and start going around the country talking about how they know how to handle camp safety now because they just had this horrible situation and they're now going to be the safest camp in America through this Keanakuk child protection plan. I brought a PowerPoint that they've used on that that in my opinion and experts opinions, would make better pedophiles not protect kids. Can I show you that?

Absolutely.

You want to do it now?

Yeah.

So this is the.

We'll put it up on screen as we talk about it.

There's so much to talk about. Okay, so this is a PowerPoint that the former Pizza Hut manager, Rick Brashler, with no expertise in child protection put together. And I have a whole audit on it by actual subject matter experts. But this is the slide deck he uses to go to other camps. It's page 24. I have in my head. Page 24, 25. Where. Have you heard of NAMBLA? Have you heard of this?

Ambula?

Yeah.

No, I've not heard of that.

I just. This is gonna. You're gonna get really pissed by this.

Sorry.

These pages aren't numbered. Oh, here we go. How to Practice Child Love.

Oh, great. You're gonna make me read this one, huh?

And then 170 page child molestation instruction manual, nambla.org, the online voice of the North American Man Boy Love Association. So if you're a pedophile in his audience, he's showing you where to go to become a better pedophile.

Who. Okay, who wrote this? This is. We're going to put this up on screen here. I'll read it.

This is.

I didn't write it. How to Practice Child Love by Richard Creech. Before you begin on the education important info theory before practice, child sexuality taboos and shame risks involved when to start? What age? Where do I find a child? This is the curriculum Introduction Having own children or family Equal access Single parents and moms with kids Babysitting daycare and schools Children out in the wide open world Other creative methods and some final words the 4 Important Advantages survey approach and create a relationship the practical steps the introduction step 1 the first physical contact step 2 the second physical contact step 3 ex exploring the child's genital step 4 exploring the adult's genital step 5 making love for the first time Richard Creech, 45, pled guilty May 24, 2013 Creech used a peer to peer file sharing program to collect and share child pornography videos, including numerous videos of children between ages 5 and 12 years old being raped and sexually abused. Crenshaw's child pornography collection included more than 1100 images and and 1300 videos of children being sexually exploited. Wow. 170 page child molestation instruction manual surfaces. This is in Orange County. Orange county sheriff deputies say that a 170 page manual is circling around central Florida.

It shows people step by step how to molest children. Nambla.org Nambla's goal is to end the extreme oppression of men and boys in mutually consensual relationships. What the fuck is this?

So that's Rick Brashler's Kanakuk child protection plan that he says they learned of through this Pete Newman situation. So it tells you a lot about what Pete Newman was doing. This is also the playbook. You know how people say it's like they're all using the same playbook? There are playbooks that exist, some on the dark web, some are, you know, more, some are Camp Canicook, some are Camp Canicuk's creation. And yeah, so that's been spewed to 600 youth serving organizations across the country. According to Rick Brashler, he's still there as the director of risk management.

He's still here?

Yeah, he's still running the child protection plan for Kanakuk. The other thing I was going to mention is that. So Pete went away in 2010 for three life terms and then they implement this Canacuk child protection plan in 2010. And then in 2011 they had another arrest by a pedophile named Lee Bradbury, who was a counselor. I think he had five counts of sodomizing a child and he just got out of prison.

He's out?

Yeah, he jumped the registry. We got him put back on. But.

What's his name?

Lee Bradbury.

Where's he live?

Pelham, Alabama.

Pelham Alabama. Lee Bradford.

Bradbury.

Bradbury, yeah. We have all Lee Bradbury.

Yeah. I helped set up a website called factsaboutcanakuk.com once. I connected with other survivor families. And there's a page on facts about Kanakuk that's known abusers. And you can see all their mug shots. We just added another one yesterday. It's, like, never ending.

How many are there?

So there are.

How many have you found?

Over 75.

Over 75 sexual abusers affiliated with Kanakuk.

Ministries and Joe white. But there's 13 that have publicly been alleged, and 12 of those have convictions. There's a 13th who, because of statute of limitations, is just out there living his best life. But he was publicly alleged in USA Today in an article that we helped with. So 13 on our name. That's Chuck Price.

Chuck Price. Where's he live?

St. Louis.

St. Louis, Missouri.

That's a whole story. Yeah. I need to tell you that story because you lived in St. Louis, right? Yeah, yeah. His victim lives in Utah. There's multiple of them. But all that to say, this Canicuk child protection plan, that was supposed to be their saving grace. It failed immediately when Lee Bradbury was arrested in 2011.

Jeez.

So I don't. I mean, they've gotten away with this for so long. And then Trey suicides. This is after years of. I mean. So Pete Newman went away when he was 23. When Trey was 23. So Pete Newman was arrested at age 21. And when Trey was 21. And then under the current civil statute of limitations in Texas, if you were abused as a child between 1995 and 2015, you only have until the age of 23 to sue liable institutions or perpetrator. So Trey was forced to file a civil lawsuit because he was not doing well and he needed therapy. And that ended with a restrictive NDA, a settlement agreement that had a restrictive NDA. So he couldn't talk about what happened to him. He couldn't talk about Keanukuk's role in all of this. And he was one of the John does that filed a civil case pretty soon after Pete went to prison. And I didn't really understand all that. All I remember is at one point, I was going to be deposed and other family members were going to be deposed. I was pregnant with my second kid at that point, and Trey wanted to spare me from going through depositions pregnant because it was so hard on him.

Like the deposit. Cannacook's lawyers are so brutal. They would gaslight these victims, saying Things like, are you sure you're not just depressed and struggling because your parents have a bad marriage? Are you sure it just wasn't an early homosexual experience and you're gay? They're like, no, pretty sure it was the child rape. So I'm not doing great. They would try to pin it on anything but Kannacuk's negligence and Pete Newman as the reason for the civil litigation. So then they put him under an NDA. And I just saw that NDA for the first time after we passed Trey's law in Texas in September when. Oh, man, dude, 20, 25. And now I know why they were so NDA'd him.

After the abuse, all of these victims.

Yeah, except one family refused to sign the NDA. Kennecott came after them. Federally sanctioned them because they refused to sign the NDA.

What do you mean, federally sanctioned? What does that even mean?

That means that their case was filed in Texas, Kanakux and Missouri. Right. So at that point, like, even though the case was filed in Texas, it got pulled to a different jurisdiction and the case was federal. So then the judge ruled in that court that the case was closed, the settlement agreement had been signed. They can't come back for more now and add an NDA in there. But they had every intent of forcing that family to sign an NDA, and that family did not. They're the Alarcons. It's been public since then. Ashton Alarcon, he calls me sis. We're really close. He serves our country. He's in Japan right now. Amazing kid now, man. Just got married and he told his dad, I want to be able to tell my story one day. And so they had to fight. Even their own lawyer. Their own lawyer was pushing this NDA on them. It's standard practice. And we can get into all that because that's like how I.

Their own lawyer?

Yeah, it's very.

The family's attorney was. Wanted them to sign the NDA.

Yeah, they all do that.

They'll never talk about how their kid was sexually molested and raped.

Yeah. And what's even sicker is that by a church. Yeah. Oh.

And to that point, who the is that attorney?

It's all of them.

All of them.

This is. This is standard practice in personal injury law. Now, I.

Who the are these people? These are kids.

These are kids. Kids should never be put under a contract. They can't consent to contracts as minors.

So hold on. Just let me replay this. So this Pete Newman gets arrested.

Yeah.

Then more of these people start falling. Then they reach out to all the victims, and they try to make it sound like it was some other event that them up in the head. And then they convince them to sign an NDA saying that they'll never talk about how Pete Newman or anybody else at Camp Canacook was playing with their penis or their vagina or shoving shit up their asshole or dancing with them naked or playing basketball with them naked or fudgeing. Putting them in Chinese response massage parlors to give them an erection so they can fucking film it. They. They. In. In. The defense attorney is having them having their fucking client sign this shit.

Thanks for saying that so I didn't have to.

What the fuck?

Yeah.

Enough. Where's the fucking FBI?

Where's the FBI?

Oh, the FBI is doing what they always do.

Yeah.

Absolutely nothing.

We can circle back to that. They entered the chat a couple years back.

Of course, they're always late to the party.

Yeah, like 12 years too late. But so. Yeah, that's exactly right. So I've spent a lot of time now educating plaintiffs attorneys on why they shouldn't silence their own clients. But that's how widely accepted this is considered a best practice. You settle, you sign an NDA and everyone moves on. Well, guess who doesn't move on. The kid who cannot heal because they have been legally silenced by a Christian.

The kid who's. Who's having dreams every night of Pete Newman jacking them off.

Or Lee Bradbury or Corby Dale Grimes or Chuck Price or Paul Green or Paul Kerr, or. I mean, the list goes on and on. There's. So some of these guys were abused twice. Once by Pete Newman, and then again by another one.

And this is legal? This is legal. You. You can. How the can a kid sign a document anyways? It's this. What?

So there's an active fraud lawsuit with the plaintiff, who's a kid in Hendersonville, Tennessee, just down the road here. And his parent, he was 17 when he settled. His parents, as the guardians, signed the settlement agreement. They own an aced hardware store. Like, they're not sophisticated on legal nuance. Right. So these NDAs, they get snuck in at the midnight hour. It's under the guise of a confidentiality clause. And you're thinking, well, I want this to be confidential because we don't want to talk about it. The kid doesn't really know what he's signing. He's not even signing it. It's his parents. So this victim was told he would have to sue his parents to get out of the NDA. And so I Mean, what?

What? What? Never mind. I mean, I want to say, like, what judge? What attorney is going to prosecute a fucking human being for talking about how they were sexually molested and fucking raped as a child, but.

Well, can I.

This is the world we live in. There's lots of attorneys that would love to do that.

I started talking about it, and there's.

People that are standing up and trying to call these people minor. What is minor?

Minor attractive.

Minor attractive persons.

Don't get me started.

Minor attractive persons. Well, let's not with them. They're a protected class. They are. It's not funny. It's real.

I. I laugh because it's so ridiculous. I. It's just like. Yeah.

So you know what's crazy? How many people are in D.C. how many Americans are there? 340 million Americans. There's like 200 people running the show. Do the math.

And where are their priorities?

We know where their priorities are. You see any Epstein files yet?

Exactly.

Me neither.

I connected with Nick Bryant a while back on. I was trying to figure out if the can. Yeah. If the Kanakuk network connected to what he'd uncovered, and he wanted to have me on his podcast. At that point, I was too scared. I was getting Crenshawed by Kanakuk. They would send me cease and desist letters, demand letters.

Getting what?

Crenshawed.

Oh, Reference to my situation. Yeah.

These and desist letters. It didn't work on me either. I took him to the press and. Yeah, I have it here, too. I framed it. This is what Canacuk's lawyer sent me first. I'm not under an NDA. My brother. My dead brother, is under an NDA. And this is what. So I set up no More Victims after getting into this operation Millstone and no More Victims started putting together a website called Facts about Kanakuk. And we got the deposition tapes from the John Doe one case because I was the only one not under NDA. And we put all this information up on factsaboutcanacook.com. we have receipts on all of it. And then Canacuk immediately, they don't like it. They send this letter, and it's laughable because, first of all, they think I'm a law firm. And they threatened to disbar me in the state of Pennsylvania for this website that's soliciting clients like. Nope.

Just defamation.

Yeah, just trying to get the truth out to the public so kids stop getting raped on your watch.

Where's the. Where do. Where do I read?

Oh, if you Want to look at, like, their 12 points of what they want.

Where's the threat? The dear.

Behind that title page there. It's like 12 things they want taken off the website. One of them is that you called Joe White's father, Skip White. His name is Spike White. And my attorneys are like, well, that's not defamation. That's called a typo. They also had a correction in there, Corby. Dale Grimes isn't in prison in Florida. He's in prison in Texas. And we're like, thanks for that. We were trying to run down where he was in prison, like, just stupid things that they wanted corrected. So I sent this to the media and they published it. And.

Do you mind if we scan this and put it up? We'll have everybody download it.

It's public.

This is Camp Canacook trying to silence Elizabeth so that the word doesn't get out that they're a bunch of pedos sexually abusing.

So that was the first one. There have been other. Other threats and things since, but I didn't have threats. Oh, so you. Yeah, yeah. Let me know whoever's behind Facts about can. I'll take them out. Being sent to the Facts about Canacuk email address where Kanakuk's posing as victims to try, like, you know, fishing to see what we'll react to or if we'll put something up on our website that's not vetted. I have great PIs and lawyers who vet these things before we put them up anywhere. We. Yeah. Then we got. I got a call from a lobbyist in D.C. that Cannacuk tried to hire his firm to. There's like three or four things they wanted to pop up a dark money C4 and oppose Elizabeth Phillips bills in Texas and Missouri.

Gotta go to D.C. to get that stuff done, don't you? It's funny how it's real. It's real.

Well, and I'm laughing because this totally backfired on them because that DC lobbyist actually cares about kids. And he immediately got in touch with me and was like, they're trying to character assassinate you. Oppose your campaigns. Well. And I was like, well, thanks. I'll let my security team know. Because that was not so. Then there's another lobbyist they went after. It got right back to me again. And all these guys are like, we don't want to work with them. We want to work with you. I'm like, cool, come on, join the, you know, get it out. Get out of there. Come join the good side. And I work with different lobbyists in different jurisdictions and they do this because they're passionate about it. A lot of them pro bono do this and they reject business from pedophile rings.

That's the first positive thing you've said all interview.

I do have some hope. I do. Yeah. I hope to bring a little bit of hope to this conversation as we get through it all.

Let's could we take a little break? I'm so pissed off right now. I'm shaking.

Let's go cool off.

Let's take a quick five minutes.

Sounds good.

Most people think waking up sore is normal. It's not. If your back, hips or shoulders feel stiff every morning, chances are it's not your routine, it's your mattress. I didn't change my schedule or my workload. I changed my bed to a Helix mattress and the difference was immediate. Helix is the real deal. I took their sleep quiz and they matched me to a mattress built around how I actually sleep, my body type, my sleep position and what my body needs to recover. I stopped waking up stiff, the nagging aches faded and my recovery finally caught up with the effort I was putting in during the day. Helix even ran a study showing 82% of users increase their deep sleep and that tracks with my experience. Better rest, less pain, more consistency. They ship free, give you 120 night risk free trial and back it with their Happy with Helix guarantee. If you're serious about feeling better when you wake up, this is one of the easiest upgrades you can make. Right now. Helix is running a limited time offer and they are giving listeners of the Shawn Ryan show an exclusive deal. Don't miss this.

Go to helixsleep.comsrs for 27% off site watch. That's helixsleep.comsrs For 27% off sitewide make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. Want to stay up to date on all things srs? You bet your ass you do. Our newsletter brings you the latest SRS news and critical updates. Get instant alerts on the newest episodes. Never miss a beat. Exclusive intel briefs from counterterrorism expert Sarah Adams. You've seen her many times on the show. She's going to give unfiltered insights on global terrorist activity for Patreon exclusives. You're going to get epic range days with me and damn near every guest that's come in the studio. You're also going to get behind the scenes content and guest updates. You're going to get first dibs on new MERCH drops and limited edition items that will never be sold again, plus exclusive offers from our partners. You won't find anywhere else. So subscribe to the Vigilance Elite newsletter right now. All right, Elizabeth, we're back from the break. Talked about a whole bunch of stuff on the break, but I'm really interested, you know, when you guys, you informed the FBI that you're coming on the show and you asked them, hey, is there anything you don't want us to talk about?

Because we don't want to interfere in your investigations with canacook. And what was her reply?

So let's go back to 2023 when I first talked to them. I think that's important context. So as I said earlier, the FBI should have been involved in this from the beginning. And when I took this story to the media, the head of the law center for the national center on Sexual Exploitation said the FBI should be so on top of this, it's just screaming FBI. And even that guy I mentioned who told Pete Newman, I'll have the FBI on your doorstep in the morning. And instead he turned himself into the Taney County Sheriff's Department. Everyone's like, FBI, this is interstate trafficking of children. And so we get to a point where we have so much information from the private investigation I'm leading with my colleagues that we start sending information to appropriate law enforcement agencies. We start with the IRS. So Kennecock got IRS church status in 2015. I mentioned they restructured in 2003. And then they, they were a for profit. Then they became a nonprofit.

You had mentioned you.

That's a way to shield assets.

Okay.

And then to it. There's a whole lot of reasons that they would do that with what we now know. They knew.

Okay. I mean, Nathan Affleck kind of broke down why you would want to go non profit.

Yeah.

During his interview about the religion business.

Yeah. Well, and thanks to your producer Jeremy, I've been in touch with those guys and we're going to do some work together.

I can't wait to see what you guys.

It's going to be. Yeah, it's going to piss off a lot of pedophiles. I'm excited about it. So the IRS is involved in 2023. They start their investigation that spring. A couple months into that, they're like, it's time to bring in the FBI. Like, oh, good, they're on it. And I just gotten up to where my dad has a beach house and they said, can you be in Springfield, Missouri on Monday? I was like, I Cannot. I'm not getting off this island. I just got on this island. But I'll do a zoom call. And so I did a zoom call with the lead criminal investigator for the IRS in that central region. And he brought in the SAC agent and another agent who like, leads the task force on child exploitation. And somewhere in Missouri, they're blacked out because they're on location somewhere. They can't show where they are. And. But I can see the IRS agent and he's fired up. Like he sees this for what it is. And I go through a presentation. I have it right here. This is what I presented to law enforcement. I had like two all nighters to pull this together because I was not in town.

My right hand woman was on maternity leave and her deputy was helping me scramble to put something together. We organized all this information we'd been digging up for years at this point. Like three years worth of tips and just pulling numbers where we could. Claims Kanakuk had made. And so I went through this deck and I get through the page about their money and private inurement, and the IRS agent goes, well, where'd you get these numbers? And I was like, oh, we just pulled this from their 990forms. So 990 forms are what you send to the IRS if you're a nonprofit. You don't have to do 990 forms if you're a church. So their transparency has gotten less and less since 2015 when they became a church. But we were able to dig up what we could through the 990s, and we were able to trace 380 million in gross revenue to this camp in southwest Missouri.

Wow.

And then we calculated that net that out. 25 was leaving the country and going to failed states like Haiti.

25 was leaving the country?

Yeah. Yeah. So you've got kennecook who's soliciting donations. They have revenue from their summer camps. Right. I mentioned it's very expensive to go there. Thousands of dollars a week to go to Kennecock. So they have earned revenue, but then they also fundraise for the poor children in Haiti. And Joe White does his whole thing about this and how.

How can they charge for the camp if it's a non profit?

Oh, it's not unusual. It's a faith based camp and they charge per term for their service. So that's not unusual. There are a lot of for profit camps too, like camp mystic, which we'll talk about in a little bit. But Canicuk was a for profit camp. Then they became a nonprofit camp, then they became a church nonprofit, which is a different tax status. So anyways, the IRS is looking into this. They're like, you know, this is the, the numbers in their bank accounts that when they said, where'd you get these numbers? I said 990 forms ago. Well, you should see their bank accounts, which tells me it's a lot more than what I know. And, and then I showed them the money trick. Follow the money, right? Follow the money to Haiti they were funneling money to. And this is, I'm telling the FBI this. I'm, you know, the IRS has brought them in. It's like, not like out of the blue, I'm cold calling the FBI on this. There's an active investigation, right? And so they bring these guys in and I'm like, yeah. So we have at this point, here's a chart of all their entities.

I mean, there's so many of them.

You broke down the entire organization.

Broke down the entire organization. We, we found that the White family earned 11.7 million in revenue from Canicuk Ministries personally between 2006 to 2020 9.1 million of those rental income to the whites for profit holding companies that they don't pay taxes on. They got the county to alleviate their taxes, even though they're a for profit. 2.6 million in compensation to Joe and Debbie, Joe White, between 2006 and 2020. So, you know, I started with the numbers because this is an IRS angle. And from my experience working with the anti trafficking nonprofit I mentioned earlier, she got rescued. She and her other friend got rescued because the IRS got their pimp on money laundering and tax evasion, not on sex trafficking. So that's oftentimes how these trafficking rings get busted up. It's because follow the money, not the crime itself. So that's how I knew to like go this angle right here it is. When Rick Brashler becomes the director of risk management in 2003, they had a 4,000% increase in their insurance coverage. They knew what was coming. This is a whole timeline of. Okay, so known abusers at this time. 1, 2. This is where it becomes FBI is like the known abuser list I mentioned earlier.

At that time, we knew of 11 convicted.

11 convicted.

Yeah. And these are all their charges. So I'm showing this to the FBI.

Have you had, I mean, can you, have you been in touch with the insurance company?

So they were actually at one point added as to the complaint in these fraud cases for civil conspiracy. The insurance company colluded with Kennecock to cover this up. So they've been named in these lawsuits.

Man, everybody's in on this.

Yeah. No, we need a deep dive on insurance because that's really the root of the. This is. We live in a capitalist society. I don't know of a better one. Right. Like, it's not communism, it's not socialism, but this is the dark side of capitalism. And I'll get into that if you want, but this. Because insurance is involved and incentives are misaligned. And that's why kids keep getting raped in institutional settings, because they go with what insurance will cover. And insurance will drop their coverage if in certain cases, when. And that's what was threatened here in this situation with CannaCuk. So the FBI sees this, they see the numbers. Then we get into Canada. Katie. And this is really disturbing. But they're like, yeah, this is. Thank you. They're like, this looks like an organized crime ring. Send us your 10. How many victims? You know, I'm like, hundreds. I have to go. I don't even know the number at this point. Like thousands of tips. Hundreds of victims at this point. Maybe like 50 something known perps on our end and only those that were convicted on that slide. But when you start following the money.

I mentioned all that money, millions of dollars going to Haiti and other countries. But the Haiti situation is particularly disturbing because Joe white always flew private. And his private plane pilot was convicted of sodomizing his five year old daughter. This is who's flying Joe White around to Haiti.

Convicted of sodomizing his daughter.

Yeah.

And then Joe White know this?

Yes. Joe White testified in his trial as someone who would let his grandchildren be around this man as a character witness. He was a character witness for this guy who had sodomized his own child and then let him stay on camp property while awaiting trial.

Holy.

Okay, so that. I'm just painting the picture here. You've got a pedophile pilot flying around. Pedophile Pete Newman. Here he is in a Santa costume in Canada. I mean, in Haiti. With canicut. Katie. So pedophile Pete with pedophile pilot and Joe White.

This is. This is.

So we know of Haiti victims. We know victims can. Victims from Hawaii to Haiti and who knows where else, all over the world. But here's where it gets really concerning.

Look at this dude.

In the name of Jesus. So Kanaku Haiti was founded by Joe White in 1991. And I remember when I was at camp, the end of every session, they'd throw around like a tithing Basket. And you're supposed to like, fund canicuk Haiti. Or you could sign a baseball to fund a cabin of the poor children that kids cross America next door instead of scholarship them into the mainstream camps. It's like, oh, no, the poor kids have to go over here. So you could like.

I know. We're like, this is way off subject. You're a Christian. How the is this allowed to happen?

It's not.

Where's the retribution? Like, where is Christ? And when the is he going to step in? This is happening all over the world, in every community, in. It's everywhere. And now they're using. They're you. They're. They. I mean, not now. It's been in the Catholic Church, been in all the churches forever. But it's like they're using his name to get to us to. To the kids.

It's not my.

Is going on.

So.

And why. Why is. Why. Why is God allowing this to happen? Where is he?

When we go back to.

And none of these people are getting caught. They're just going back. Or they go to prison for a little bit, and then they come back out and they do it again. They fucking do it again.

I want to talk about that. I want to talk about when my brother Trey was really struggling, how it. And then died. Destroyed my faith. Because I'm like, where were you, God? Where are you? Why are you letting this happen? All valid questions. Big part of my spiritual journey. And here's the thing. I. I read something by a theologian who studies institutional sin. So this is, you know, Catholic Church, USA Gymnastics. Like, these institutions are a part of the problem. Right? It's especially atrocious when it's in the name of Jesus. But he wrote an article, it was targeted towards the sbc, the Southern Baptist Convention. Huge pedophile problem they don't want to do anything about. It's all lip service, no real substantive reform in the Southern Baptist Convention. And so he was targeting his article towards that. And this really stuck out to me. He said, idols demand sacrifice, like Moloch.

You know, it's like we just covered this with Dr. Dan Schneider.

Is he a priest or something?

He is a. I don't know. He's a PhD, but in something with Catholicism. And we went over all these old gods and false gods.

So if you look at this issue through the lens of institutional sin, which a lot of the church wants to ignore that institutional sin. It's a lot about personal sin, right. In most mainstream evangelical theology. And we've ignored this concept of institutional Sin. But because of how incentives are aligned towards insurance. Right. And, you know, fundraising money is part of it. It's created idols. People idolize Joe White. People idolize Kut. People idolize Camp Mystic. People idolize their mega church, you name it. And when you have an idol. Idols demand sacrifice. And our children are being sacrificed on the altar to these idols.

You think that's what it is? Why do you, why do you think.

Child rape is a. Is just a casualty of business?

Because this is saying you don't think this is for pleasure?

Well, at the pedophile level, it is.

At the Joe White level, yeah.

I mean, I think there's only a couple conclusions to draw there. Like, I think people who empathize more with pedophiles than children have a problem. You're letting this guy stay on your camp property while awaiting trial when this has just happened to his daughter. Like, the dude's not right. He's still running this camp. He's still stewarding thousands of kids per summer on his properties and making shit ton of money. And yeah, I mean, I'm sure you've heard this before, but the love of money is the root of all evil. So not everyone's as complicit as Joe White. You know, there are some SBC leaders who are not pedophiles, but they're not doing anything about the pedophile problem. Why is that? The institution above all else. So then you have children being raped, people being hurt. Well, that's the cost of doing business because we're saving so many souls. And I've had this conversation with a lot of people, a lot of survivors, in fact. Like, where is that calculus in Scripture? Souls saved outweighs children raped. Yeah, but that's Kanacock's messaging is. Well, whoops, we had a few bad actors who infiltrated our ministry, but look at all the souls we've saved.

Like, that's not my Jesus.

And we're saying there's potentially thousands.

There's definitely thousands.

There's definitely thousands.

Yeah. So you know, only one in seven child sexual abuse victims ever come forward. So that's like a conservative calculation. If we know if the prosecutor on this is just Pete Newman, Remember one serial perpetrator, 55 victims known at the time of his sentencing. Prosecutor estimating a true count in the hundreds. But, you know, 55 victims came forward in the criminal trial. I know of over 205 in our database right now. Like Pete Newman related. And then way more beyond that.

One in seven.

Yeah.

So then times that by seven, it's like 350. Right?

Well, if we're talking 205 Newman victims in our database that have come forward so far, times seven.

Oh, 200. Holy.

And that's Pete Newman.

That's just one. And how many are there?

Over 70. So when you start following the money and seeing their goal is to continue making this camp a cash cow because it's serving Joe White, you just heard me say, like, they've made 11.7 million in that period of time. Personally, the White family, through their church camp, that's. That's where their heart lies. That's what they're pursuing. And it's in the name of souls saved. But at what cost? Right? So then they have this thing called Katie that Joe white started in 1991. And then they partnered with an organization called Cross International. And Cross International was also called Cross Catholic Outreach. So there's a Catholic side to it. And then the evangelical side, guy named Jim Kavanaugh was doing Cross Catholic Outreach. Joe White and him partnered up. So it's like, you know, Kavanaugh does the Catholic side. He does the non denominational side of fundraising. Cross International is 1.3 billion in general contributions. It's the 39th largest nonprofit in the U.S. no one's ever heard of it. Like, I've been in philanthropy for 12 years. I've never heard of Cross International. And then like 1.2 billion of their annual contributions are in kind, donations and medical supplies.

But then when you talk to people who have flown to Haiti with Joe White or gone on these Canicut Katy trips, and I've obviously talked to a lot of them at this point, they're like, we were handing out Ziploc bags with like candy and toothbrushes. I'm like, that's not $1.3 million worth of medical supplies. They're like, no.

What are they doing with the medical supplies? Are there even medical supplies or are they selling them? Like, what?

I don't even know if they exist. I mean, so now the claim is that they are the primary source of funding for over 6, 000 kids in Haiti who would starve to death if not for Joe White. And they go on these mission trips and Cross International, they would give some of this money I was mentioning to Cross International as a pass through. But then some of it, like, to the tune of 6 million just directly wired to Haiti or, sorry, sent by check. According to their 990 form, they're sending checks to Haiti to these Divine Shelter schools. So I Sent some people to get ground truth on this whole thing. And at first they were like, well, few of these schools they mentioned serving don't exist. There's not even roads to get there.

This sounds like Minnesota.

Yeah. And then we kept.

Except it's Haiti, which is weird. That. Yeah. Not that different.

Yeah. And. But this is an American ministry church sending millions of dollars to Haiti to feed the children. And on their website that they just refreshed. It's not like we're going off of historical information. They very recently updated the Kanaka Haiti website, and they say, well, yes, this was started by pastor Edmund or someone. And then mention another pastor, and they're both dead. And so, like, who's running Canica Katy? Or like, with Cross International on the ground in Haiti, These two pastors mentioned on your website that have been running things, they're dead. And then we had a whistleblower who found us. This person on the ground was a whistleblower for where this money was going, and they felt like they had to flee for their life. When they told us what was going on with these organizations that Cross International and Cannacut Katie are funding. And I won't say where they ended up, but I'm glad they're safe and I hope they stay safe. But these were organizations. One was called Free the Children, and then they got investigated for child trafficking and organ harvesting.

Organ harvesting?

Yeah. And then they rebranded and reopened under a different name, like Overture International or something. And then can a cuck and Cross International still gave them money.

Holy.

So to all the Kanakuk donors out there, people giving them your business, you're.

Funding this organ harvesting of kids and sexual trafficking and sexual abuse and rape.

And silencing kids with NDAs.

Yeah, and then. Yeah, and then silencing the kid with a NDA.

Here's the numbers on that. 1.5 million to free the Kids, a charity run by. It's a Haitian orphanage run by Priest Boivaire. And then in 2020. Yeah, Overture International took over governance of Free the Kids after someone came forward with public accusations of sexual abuse against Father Mark, the priest running it. The board was aware of multiple reports, particularly Father Mark. I mean, this mentions, like, three perps, and they failed to act until they couldn't deny the case. And, yeah, here's all the emails and things about that American Catholic priest accused of sexually assaulting a young boy in Haiti. This is all an organization that can cut funds across international funds. Sorry for all the piles of paperwork, but I just want people to know I Have receipts. This isn't just conspiracy theory stuff. This is documented.

I think we'll probably. I think we should just get the digital vials of all these documents and put them in the link in the description so all the millions of people that watch this can access the documents. I am curious. I mean, and brought up the FBI. So what. How's their investigation going into this?

So that's the reason I put all that together, was to present it to the FBI. Then they said, let's get in touch with the 10 worst victims, which is a horrible phrase and label, but who's been trafficked?

Traumatized.

Yeah. Who's been trafficked across state lines the most, whether it's to China, Haiti, or all over the US and so I provided that. I talked to the, you know, certain victims in that pool who were willing to speak. Some of them are still scared or they're not. Okay. And so I had to do, you know, a lot of calling around to make sure that this survivor wanted to talk. Every time they have to talk, it brings up, you know, like, I'm sure it's true for veterans as well. It's like, you have to go back there. It's hard. And so I don't take that lightly. Right. When I'm calling a survivor for a clarifying question or like, someone wants to speak to a survivor, like, well, who's doing okay right now? Who wants to do this right now? Is it healing for them? Anyways, we do that work, we give them the list of 10 survivors willing and ready to speak. They don't want. The number one thing is they don't want this to happen to another kid. They want this to stop. They're like, yeah, I'll talk to anyone. Put me on that FBI list.

The agent starts calling around. I hear back from the survivors. They've gotten in touch with them. And then we follow up nothing. Follow up, nothing. So this presentation I was just referring to, that was July 2023, and here we are January 2026, and we're doing Canacuk's job for them. We're doing the FBI's job for them. We're going and fighting these predators.

I'm starting to think that the FBI's job is just a mouthpiece for whoever's in the White House to explain why they're not doing it. Just goes from administration to administration to administration. And that's what they do. You get up there and you listen to them talk about why the they're failing again.

Yeah. And on this issue, they're not informed because again, back to when I was the board chair of an anti trafficking organization, the survivor leader of that organization would go train the FBI on how to spot trafficking and understand it. Again, the burden falls on survivors time after time. And that survivor, I mean, it's almost her full time job, is going around and training law enforcement and how to understand trafficking, spot it, address it. So like, I mean, trafficking's been going on for centuries. Why are we.

Why are they only talking to 10 victims? What are you guys busy doing something? Prove it.

Yeah, I think they made it through like four on that list. Yeah. And so, I mean, since 20. I started this investigation in 2021. 2020, actually fall of 2020. And here we are in 2026. I've been in touch with eight to 10 law enforcement agencies at this point, including the inspector general's office. They were looking at a can of cuck for PPP loan fraud. I was like, well, get him on whatever you can. Like at this point, I didn't know what an inspector general was. I had to Google it. I'm like, this is not what I do. But I guess it is now. Might be the rest of my life. But yeah, I mean, the inspector general's office, hsi, FBI, irs, dpd, we had an arrest in Dallas. We had been in touch with the. Yeah. Different jurisdictions and their law enforcement. The Attorney General of Missouri. Now two different attorney generals in Missouri. They're like, sorry, we can't do anything about Kanakuk because we have unique jurisdictional issues. The way it was explained is that in Missouri, there's unique jurisdictional issues where they can't act upon anything unless the local law enforcement brings them in.

I was positively refreshed, though, by some Missouri legislators. So after I uncovered what happened to my brother and the statute of limitations stuff started making sense. Like, why was he forced to file so. Or before he was ready. He was 21 when his perp went to prison and he's forced to file by 23. Just trying to graduate college, like heal and like, you know, wake up from this nightmare. And so then the civil litigation process broke him, led him to his first psychotic break. And I connected with these other survivors through the facts about Kanakuk network we were building. And I started testifying in Jefferson City and started proposing bills that would help these survivors have access to the civil courts past the age of 26. In Missouri, it's 26. That law has been unchanged since 1938. I started testifying on statute of limitations reform and. And the House sponsor is from Taney County. His name is Representative Brian Seitz. And then our Senate sponsors, Brad Hudson also represents Branson. So when I told them what was going on at Kanakuk, they have zero chill about child abuse. And they were like, we will sponsor this bill.

And then I went and testified in a hearing on it, brought some survivors as well who testified on this bill. The House Judiciary Committee was just mind blown. Everyone like there had heard of Kennecock or knows of Keanaku. Because if you don't have. If you don't send your kids to Keanakuk, then you go to K Life. There's something everywhere, Missouri, Kennecock related and in other states. And this lobbyist came up and testified in favor on behalf of Mayor Milton of Branson. And I lost it. I cried because it's like, finally there are people that are standing with survivors and they don't care that Keanukuk is one of the top revenue drivers, if not the top revenue driver to that part of the state. The mayor of Branson is on our side, and the House rep from the area and the senator who represents that district are standing with survivors. And I left that hearing, and the lobbyist for Mayor Milton pulled me aside. He was like, I've got two daughters. I'm so pissed off after hearing everything. I just heard, how can I help you? And I'd never worked with a lobbyist. In my mind, lobbyists are, like, shady.

And. Yeah. So he was like, I want to help. And I would just call him and ask a question. He was like, no, like, I really want to help. Like, it's getting to the point where you need to retain a lobbying firm because you have a lot of opposition. I'm like, who? You know, at this point, I'm kind of, like, unaware. He's like, oh, you know, just like the whole insurance lobby and tort reform people and the Catholic Church and the Boy Scouts of America, like, they're spending. I don't even know what their budget is for lobbying. Definitely more than what I can combat as one person, even though I'm fundraising now for, like, our efforts. Like, back then, I was like, I can't go up against an industry like insurance. I had some attorneys on my side who had seen the darkness because of cases they've taken on.

And so are they trying to shut down the law? Yeah, that's what they're doing.

They don't want NDAs released.

Okay.

They don't want the statute of limitations changed because then it opens all these cases up and the insurance companies have to pay out those settlements.

Gotcha.

So this lobbyist shout out to Mark, good man. He's like, I want to help you. Former firefighter. Like, I don't even think he. Well, I think he went to college eventually, but, like, he was a first responder. He'd been very successful at getting, like, mental health things done for first responders in the Missouri legislature. As a lobbyist, father of two girls, he's like, I want to help you. City of Branson's on your side. We've got representative sites in Senator Hudson, and you need real lobbyists. So they took us on. And then. So that was Missouri. And then in Texas, through mutual friends, got connected to one of the powerhouse lobbying firms in Austin, and they've been working with me pro bono for a couple sessions now. The Texas legislature meets every other year. Missouri meets every year. So in Missouri, it's usually like a one, two, three step process, not getting things passed in, like, one session. In Texas, because there's a. A gap between sessions. You kind of get a little more panicked if you don't pass something that session. It's going to be two more years before you can even get something else done.

But, yeah, we got Trey's law passed in Texas and Missouri.

Did you have any help from any people in Congress or anybody to get that pushed through in Texas or Missouri?

Yeah. So I mentioned our bill sponsors in Missouri who represent Kanakuk's district, which I'm sure just upset them, but we got that done. And then. And that applies to child sexual abuse and trafficking victims. So minors. And it's for cases that arose on or after August 28th of last year, 2025. In Texas, we got a version of Trey's law passed that covers all survivors of sexual assault, regardless of their age and regardless of when it happened. That was a really interesting process. I had Representative Jeff Leach as our House champion. He's also the House Judiciary chair, and he gave us the opportunity to provide an interim briefing to his committee. That's super helpful because before the next session even starts, you're briefing them on this issue so that they can decide how to prioritize it, who should carry the bill. Those kinds of things Jeff carried for us on the House side because this was personal to him. His wife's a disclosed survivor. She got the civil statute of limitations extended to age 48 back in 2019, and that's great, but it wasn't retroactive. So again, as I mentioned, if you were abused between 1995 and 2015.

In Texas, you still only have until the age of 23 to sue. Then it got extended to like 33, not to 48. But that only applies to victims after 2029. Sorry, 2019. So since that was passed in 2019, it only applies to survivors who were abused after 2019. They have until age 48. But Jeff Leach, this was personal to him. Then I meet with Senator Angela Paxton, and turns out it's quite personal to her as well. She's a former school teacher and counselor. She's a mother and a grandmother, and she has zero chill about child abuse. And I told her about a former student of hers that is under an NDA. Was, now I can say was under an NDA, and he had been in her 10th grade math class. And when I said, I'm not going to say his name, but like, when I said so and so says hello and this is personal to him, she burst into tears. And she told her team, this is why God put me in the legislature to pass this bill.

There is a good person in there.

So I want people to know they're not all bad. There are people that have fought with me tooth and nail. What I mean by that is what's her name? Angela Paxton. She's done a lot of good for kids in Texas. Her husband's a politician, too, and so she knew the ropes. And, yeah, she was a ride or die champion on this in Texas. Then there's a representative named Mitch Little, and he's a practicing attorney in the area of child sexual abuse. So as we were drafting the bill, we had a constitutional issue. So under the Texas, I think it's even in the Bill of Rights, not just in the Constitution, but no retroactive laws can be made. And I really, in Texas needed the law to be retroactive because it's my brother's story, right? It's that student of Senator Paxton's story that they were put under these NDAs, you know, after the Pete Newman scandal. So they needed this to be retroactive to be freed from their NDAs. Otherwise, it's just helping future victims, which is still good. But the conflict with the Constitution in Texas was an issue. And in Missouri, it's not retroactive because we have to address the constitutional conflict there.

But Mitch Little, being a brilliant lawyer, he came up with a loophole, and he said anyone who wants to enforce an existing NDA has to get a special court order to keep it in effect. Otherwise all NDAs are void and unenforceable in the state of Texas after 9-1-2025.

Nice.

And I thought that was a brilliant strategy because it forces the bad actors to reveal themselves. You want to take that abused kid to court and get a special court order to maintain that child's NDA or that victim's NDA. Show your face.

So pretty slick.

What we accomplished in Texas is monumental. It's the most sweeping NDA reform anywhere in the country and probably world. There have been other NDA reforms passed, like the Speak out act, which applies to sexual harassment in the workplace. That was led by Gretchen Carlson and Julie Robinsky. They were Roger Aile's victims at Fox News. And I got to know Gretchen when and their nonprofits called Lift Our Voices. And they're still working on this issue, but it's workplace related, like pre dispute NDAs in the workplace. So like, I mean, then it's valid. It's important work. Think about the McDonald's worker who signs an employment contract. They don't understand NDAs. They don't understand they're signing away their right to a court because they get sent to arbitration behind closed doors just by signing that employment contract. So what Gretchen and Julia are doing is really important and just leaves out kids. And so the Speak out act passed federally in 2022, and that's for pre dispute NDAs in workplace sexual harassment cases. And I got connected through Gretchen when I was on the board of Women's Philanthropic Network and she had joined as a new member. We had Members Day.

She talked about Lift Our Voices and what she was trying to do. I side chatted her and I said, this is my brother's story. And she goes, I've never heard of a kid being put under an NDA. That's horrible. So we got on a call and I told her Trey's story. And she said, you need to talk to Nancy French. She lives in Franklin, Tennessee and she's a ghostwriter, does celebrity memoirs. She like spent 30 days in Wasilla, Alaska with the Palins writing some books. She did a book for Mitt Romney. She did Shawn Johnson, the Olympic gymnast. She, she's had a, like, I hope she writes a book one day about all of the books she's written. The behind the scenes are crazy. But I didn't know Nancy French. I just went off this lead from Gretchen. She goes, you need to write a book. And then once you have your book, you can option it into a film, get this story out. Like what? Like Bombshell in their case helped people understand the Roger Ailes story and the Fox News stuff. Or like Spotlight, right The Catholic Church crisis. That movie helped expose the scale and the scope of the situation.

So I get on a call with Nancy for 45 minutes. She's a disclosed survivor of clergy abuse when she was 12. Vacation Bible school teacher abused her when she was 12 in the church of Christ in Kentucky. And I told her what I was uncovering and working on. And she was like, I don't know how I can help. Like, yes, I'm a ghostwriter, but this needs to get out to the public asap. So anyways, we like stayed in touch. She's an amazing writer. And so I was like, if nothing else, look at this facts about Canacuk website and help me out with how do we get the word out? And then I met this woman who on a blog post about the Pete Newman arrest and a local. Like, a local blogger in Taney county had written about Pete Newman's arrest. And someone left her full name and address and said, I reported Pete Newman well before he was arrested because my daughter saw him abusing a boy in the woods. I contact her. She'd investigated Kanakuk on her own as a freelance journalist for like four years. And I said, can I acquire your research?

I got her research. We organized it into like six binders. I take those binders out to Franklin, Tennessee to meet with Nancy French. And I'm going over the evidence. Like, some of the stuff I showed you. Like, they knew in 2003, why are they putting him under boundaries of like, no nudity with children, no sleeping one on one with children if he's not sleeping one on one with children. And her husband, David, he'd started a media platform called the Dispatch with some other guys. And it was a right leaning conservative media outlet. And he walked in, he brought us lunch while we were going through all these binders, trying to figure out, like, how do we write a book about this or what are we doing with this information? Because it has to get out. And he heard me say, 500,000 kids have gone through this place. 50,000. And then he heard the NDA part. He was like, what? So infuriated. He had just exposed Ravi Zacharias. So whistleblower friend and the Ravi Zacharias scandal. Huge, big televangelist who very well known around the world. And then he died. And all these people came out about how they'd been trafficked by Robbie Zacharias.

So her. Nancy's husband, David French, had just exposed that. So he. He was like, NDAs. All of the things where it's like the same Thing, Just another version of it. And this is kids.

And.

So by the time I flew back to Dallas, they were like, this can't wait on a book. We need to get this out to the public asap. So that's how the first articles came out on the Dispatch. And that platform, it's like a substack model kind of platform. So not mainstream. I couldn't get mainstream media to write about this or care about this.

Of course they won't touch it. Yeah, they ever touched it. Well, somebody did.

I went top down on. I had a friend who was vice president of Gannett Communications and I told her, I'm stuck. I can't get Springfield News Leader, the local paper, to write about this. So we had the Dispatch and then it got picked up by some other Gannett Communications.

Yeah, like Northeast.

They. They own USA Today and like a big media conglomerate.

Okay.

And I had worked. So at one point, towards the end of college, I interned for the rnc, the Republican National Convention with this friend. And we both studied corporate communications and public affairs, were both trained in crisis pr. That's how I saw what Kanacock was doing because that was my degree.

Wow.

And so I call her and she was like, this is ridiculous. I'm going to get you on a zoom call with the head of investigative reporting for our whole company. And then they brought in the regional head for USA Today and we finally got five articles published in USA Today and the Springfield's News Leader because I told them that if they don't report on this, then they're part of the COVID up.

Nice.

And then they ran five articles. I was like, yeah, catching up for lost time.

Nice.

Then would be better anyways. But once we got USA Today, that led to a Vice News piece. We actually won an Emmy on that. About the NDAs back in. We won an Emmy in 2022 for that.

Nice.

Vice News. Vice TV is not around anymore. But they did a responsible and good job on that story. We had to have victims with anonymized treatments because they were scared because the NDAs of speaking out. So they had to do like, you know, the blackout treatment for these victims to talk. And then we did a CBS Survivor sit down. I hosted it in Dallas, flew victims in from around the country. Same thing, anonymized treatment. Everyone was so scared because of these NDAs. So after the Dispatch articles and David and Nancy put their stamp of credibility on it, David's now at the New York Times and he's mentioned it in a couple of his opinion pieces. The Kanakuk scandal. And they're both Christians, and they have three kids and now grandkids, they don't. They don't like this stuff. So I still talk to them frequently, and they're always trying to help make intros, get this covered. So the mainstream media eventually followed. But that was not who wanted to tell this story initially. In fact, the woman I mentioned, who I acquired her research and put it in binders, she had taken the story. She did four years of investigating this, and then she took the story to Vanity Fair, and they said, oh, we have abuse fatigue.

We just did a story on Catholic abuse. So she gave up on it. Fortunately, we got connected. It was a year, almost a year to the date after Trey died. Because my therapist I'd been working with when Trey was not doing well, because I had little kids, all my hats, you know, day job stuff, and I was going to visitation hours in psych wards or visiting Trey and rehab, and it got to the point where I. I was getting unhealthy, right? I'm big sis, but I'm also mom, and I'm also stewarding this foundation role I have and all these boards, you know, like, I couldn't just full time take care of Trey, but everywhere we went, failed him. Mental health system's a mess. I've seen the guts of it. It's not great. Medications he'd try would make him fat or, like, make the depression worse. Man, he was on and off suicidal for years. I never knew when it would be the last time I. You know, these phone calls or visits, like, I always left thinking that could be the last time, you know, and I'd go from, like carpal line where I'd see a can of CK bumper sticker to visiting tri in a psych ward.

And I understand why he didn't want to live in this world. Every. Everyone in Dallas just thinks Kanakuk is like. I mean, not anymore, but like, for the longest time, people still sending their kids there. He felt so unseen, and he couldn't talk about it. I would listen. I'm so glad I leaned in. I listened to everything he wanted to tell me. And a lot of it got super dark. And he was a brain researcher. He was brilliant. He was working at the Langer lab, which is shared program between MIT and Harvard. And he was studying the brain, I think, because he wanted to fix his own. So really smart kid growing up. National merit scholar, not finalist, not semi national merit scholar, like top 01%. Like, on that test. He always wanted to be Pre med. He had. He could have been a brain surgeon. I mean, he was brilliant, well rounded. Football, cross country, like athletic, all the things Eagle scout. And then those depositions, like I mentioned, led to his first psychotic break. Thanks, Kanakuk. So it was like the child sexual abuse and then you had the institutional abuse and the gaslighting in those depositions and then the in and out of treatment centers.

Some he would leave without even a diagnosis. And there's like 20 more medications. Nothing was working or helping. And so he started like deep diving. And he came out to live in North Carolina with us for a month and he was too paranoid to go to a certain therapist's office. I got him in because of my foundation role. I was doing some work with the University of North Carolina in Greensboro on healthy relationships. So these guys are all psychologists. And so I called the head of the department, great counseling department. I'm like, who's the best person in town for complex ptsd? Like, I, I don't know if my brother's going to make it all right. I've got little kids I'm dealing with too. And he gives me a name. We go and we meet with that therapist and I have to sign the intake forms and like my own interest, he's too scared. He's in a ball in the corner.

Jeez.

We get in the office with the therapist and he's totally like almost catatonic, closed off. And then I asked this woman, tell Trey about other clients you've had. And she goes into, well, I've treated MK Ultra victims and I didn't know what I was like, what? And Trey suddenly came to and was like, oh yeah, okay. Like he. That earned his trust. And she had had clients like starting back in the 80s who would be in session with her and they'd hear an ice cream truck and just go into a trance and follow the ice cream truck and then go back and forth between like being a three year old, a 30 year old, a 15 year old, you know, like that multi personality thing. So she's like, I've seen it all and what's going on? And Trey's like, tell her about Canna Cook. So like I would tell about Canacuk. You don't want to talk about it. And she's like, your symptoms are a lot like victims I've seen who survived satanic ritualistic abuse or like this MK Ultra stuff. And that's where I'm like, you know, I'm just sitting there as a supportive sister, but I'm also Listening.

And I go buy every book I can on MK Ultra. And like, all this stuff. I thought it was a conspiracy theory. And then I come back to. We moved back to Dallas eventually, and I got to really lean into helping my brother. So that lady was in North Carolina. Move back to Dallas, find other therapists. Same thing. They're like, sometimes he's 15, sometimes he's 7, sometimes he's 30 something. And I'm like, what did Kanakuk do to you? It's like, what did they do to you? So it wasn't just like one therapist who was like, crazy. It was like everywhere he went. When I was included, I got to see. I got a front row seat to his suffering. And I learned a lot about how these networks work. It's never just one perpetrator. It's never just one victim. The ritualistic abuse going on in the name of Jesus. Like, this guy who was abusing these kids was also baptizing them and reading scripture over them and praying over them as the abuse is happening. It shattered my faith.

Reading scripture over them. Did your brother tell you that?

I've talked to so many survivors now. So Trey was scared to talk because of the NDA. And he told a therapist in Dallas, she's in the same building as the guy who wrote the book. CIA doctors. Colin Ross, I think is his name. I read that. But I started educating myself on, like, the MK Ultra stuff's declassified. Like, I just totally thought Trey was being, like, psychotic or something. And I was like, oh, that's. I did my own research. I was like, this stuff's for real. And I met doctors that, like, treat these patients. And Trey symptoms lined up with all that. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. And then four days. I think it was four days, like, very close to his death. He reached out to that therapist and said, they'll always control me and I'll never be free.

Damn.

And then he killed himself.

I'm sorry.

And when. When I started going around to meet with his therapists and hear, like, all the same things over and over and over again of just, like, victims they've treated and how it's hard to at that point. Like. And then there was also, like, drugs and addiction involved in Trace. Like, it's just so hard to come back from that. And, like, all the medications and the failures of different doctors who couldn't help him. I learned pretty early on I couldn't save him. So, you know, as a big sister, you're like, I'm supposed to Protect my little brothers. And I couldn't. So I had, you know, my own therapist walking me through all this. She's really cool. She's retired now, but she PhD, messianic Jew. So like she's ethnically Jewish, but she came to know Christ. Her housekeeper converted her to, to Christ. And she had a really cool faith. And she helped me understand, like how to set boundaries. Like you don't have to go to every visitation hours. You don't have to go to all this therapy. Like you have to self care because you're a mom. You're all these other things too. You're not just Trey's big sister.

My parents were going through a divorce at the time too.

Oh man.

Perfect storm. So she said, you need to take a year and just grieve. And I'm a very action oriented person, Sean, if you can't tell. So that was hard to heed, right? It's like, what do you mean, just grieve? Like just cry all the time for a year. Like, I, I've got stuff to do. And she's like, no, just great. Like sit in the grief. Feel like if you can't feel it, then you'll never heal from it. Like you have to feel it to heal it. And the Jewish faith tradition has some really cool stuff around grief. Like the way that they do funerals and the way the community supports each other when someone passes away. And she's like, you need to go through the first four seasons without your brother before you take any action. Like, just grieve it. And it was really good advice for someone like me. But then about a year, like literally she said, grieve for a year. Then that year passed. I'm like, okay, I'm going to do something. That's when I got on the middle of the night and I find this blog post and it's called the Turner Report.

And he was like a local journalist who did his own blogging thing in Taney county. And he posted about Pete Newman's indictment and then like reported on the criminal trial proceedings. And that's where I found that comment from that woman whose daughter had witnessed Pete with a boy in the woods and then acquired her research and all that. I got a burner phone after that, like a drug dealer. And I would take, I'd get tips because in Trey's obituary we, we said, my parents and I, like our family agreed, like, we are going to name this abuse. So many people were confused, like, what's wrong with Trey? He was like a straight A Student football player. Like, Trey was it. He was, like, the man all the girls wanted to date Trey, like, all the boys want to be Trey, like. And then suddenly, he's dead. Not so suddenly, actually. It was a slow decline, all horrible. And. Yeah. So he. In his obituary, we wrote all those things that were great about him. And at the end, we said he was a Canicut Camps abuse survivor and a friend to other survivors he could help.

And so that was out there in the Dallas Morning News. And we started getting outreach from, you know, like, the Me Too movement. I call this kids too, because we kept getting all these calls about our family. We. We think our son might have been abused at Kanakuk. He's never talked about it or a direct victim reaching out. And I had to be really careful because one thing we knew from the civil case is that kanakuk would put PIs on the victims, and they would, like, pull their trash and surveillance them to get, like, you know, any evidence of homosexual behavior, drug use, and then use it against them in depositions. And all these victims I've talked to, like, so many of them are like, yeah, I was followed by a black suv. Like, oh, my God. I thought Trey was just, like, getting schizophrenic or something. Like, I didn't. Not that I didn't believe him. I was just, like, skeptical. And then you hear it enough times, you're like, that is so evil. That Kuk and their attorneys would surveillance victims, and they also set up a hotline in the wake of Pete's arrest that would report back to themselves, like, victim support@canacuk.com. and then that's how they.

Kidding me.

That's how they grew. Their list of victims is like, victim support at Cannon still up on their website. And so then.

Serious.

Yeah. Then they can intercept the victims. And Joe White would offer some families a trip to Disney World, a fancy hunting trip, like a hundred thousand dollars for treatment. But it comes with an NDA.

That's still on the website.

Yeah, it's victim supportannaguard.com.

I think we'll pull it. We'll put it up on screen right now.

Yeah, they have this. Our response page.

Because that way, if there's any victims, you know, they can knock to their abuser.

Yeah. Not go there.

What the.

Well, it's worse than that, too. They had counselors in their network of counselors, and they would send people to this guy. And then things that a victim would say in their counseling session, thinking they. It's confidential. Hello, hipaa. Things they would have only told that counselor come up in depositions.

Holy.

So this is very like Scientology. I mean, there. This is not the only cult that does this, but that's what they were doing to victims, too. And then Kuk would pay the counselor, like, pay the invoices. They would say, oh, you deserve free therapy. We'll pay for your therapy. But they wouldn't give the victim the money. They would pay the therapist, and the therapist would report back.

Do you have the names of the therapists?

Oh, yeah.

Is there any legal recourse to them? No, nothing.

No. I mean, I.

Not for breaking hip, but not any of that.

No. I mean, I think that. So that I'm thinking of one in particular, like, the one I have the most on. He was at a Baptist church in Branson. And I think when a lot of this came out in discovery in these lawsuits, they fired him or he's no longer in that role at that church. But, yeah, there's a network of therapists that feed the information back to Canada.

So they. They canacook recruited therapists. To talk to their victims and then have them report the deepest, darkest, most disgusting sexual abuse back to them so that they can cover it up. These are fucking licensed therapists.

Yeah. And the victims that would tell me this, I'd be like, report them to, like, try to get their license revoked. Right. Like, I don't personally have a claim. Right. Because it didn't happen to me, but I tell the victims it happened to him. Like, please report this to the licensing agency in Missouri because he should lose his license.

Holy.

Joe White also claims to be a counselor.

I think. What's the. The most. How do you. How do you find this many people who are, like, okay with sexually abusing kids? Like, they. They did everything but put a recruitment, like, poster up that says, hey, if you. If you love to sexually abuse kids, sign up here.

Exactly. So, like, that's why it's so important when an institution has a case of child sexual abuse that they have an independent investigation into that organization, not a law firm, to cover, you know, them, but to have an independent investigation that looks into the scope and scale of the abuse that's occurred, because it's. I've never seen a case where it's just one perpetrator, just one victim. Like, they're. They're usually tied into it, especially with, like, the online stuff, so intersectional with this institutional abuse. Right. Because they desensitize their victims by using porn a lot of the time. Or in the case of Kanakuk and some of these other, like, Assemblies of God and certainly Catholic Church abuse SBC stuff. They use an element of spirituality to it. Like, Pete Newman would tell boys that if they masturbated with him in a hot tub, they were still sexually pure because they weren't doing it with a woman. So. And. And that ties back again to Joe White's books about teen purity. So, like, from the top, you have this dude who's obsessed with teen sex and purity, and then his own words and philosophy and theology are twisted by these pedophiles that come to work at Kanakuk, and then they get caught abusing kids.

And Joe White's like, oh, it's just boys being boys. I thought it was immature. I didn't think it was criminal. He says things like this in the deposition tapes we have, and he was like, they're. You know, just.

You have him saying that.

Oh, yeah. We have hours and hours of deposition videos.

Can we put them up?

Yeah, let's put them up. I've got.

We can insert them into this.

Please, please.

Send it. Yeah, send it to us.

Just wait till you see this guy's facelift, too. He looks creepy.

I can.

Like, what in the. Kenneth Copeland is going on here? You know that?

Like, that's exactly who just popped into my brain.

Yeah, that's what. Yeah. You would agree with me that we can't trust what Pete Newman says or has said about the number of victims or the extent of the crime, contact with individual victims.

It's hard to know what to trust and what not to trust.

Well, do you trust him at all?

I trust him at all. When he sent us a list, I believe there was a list of approximately. Approximately 18 or 19 names.

22, I think.

Yeah. Okay. That list. And I forget the exact date of that list. It was.

The first list. The first list that Newman sent, you sent to.

Well, there was a. I'm referring to a list that he sent to Chris Cooper.

Right.

And I can't tell you the date, but I talked to a number of those parents of those victims and have subsequently had conversations with a number of the children of those. And it was consistent with the list that there were two or three boys that he said he had touched on the list that was consistent. There was 16ish boys that he said on the list that he hadn't touched. And that has been consistent. So there. There's a degree of trust there that. That. That in investigating that particular list.

Yeah. He's in deposition saying things like, we didn't fire Pete. Because these incidents of nudity were like two drops in a cascade of applause and praise. And all the victims, when we're watching these deposition tapes, we're like, those two drops, those are poison. They'll poison the whole well, or waterfall, whatever your metaphor is. Like, I'm pretty sure scripture says, like, if one sheep goes missing and you've got 99, you go after the one lost sheep. Like, go after those drops of water, those poisonous drops of water that most people would call felony acts. Instead of focusing on the applause of praise and money coming in through this rainmaker director who's obviously naked with kids all the time because you're writing contracts to say, stop spending so much time naked with kids. You're like revising his HR document to say, no more one on one sleepovers. Spend more time with your wife Katie. Less inordinate amount time with kids. Like, it's unbelievable. And this is out there. So since the dispatch articles dropped in.

2020, where's this guy in prison?

Jefferson City Correctional Center.

How is he not dead? Usually these guys get killed in prison.

Who's protecting him?

Man, you're right.

Oh, and I had to protest his parole in 2024. So here's some Missouri math. Three life terms, and he was up for parole after serving 15 years. Because in Missouri, a life sentence is 30 years. So that's kind of weird. I'm 38. I've outlived my lifespan. Then he had three of those three 30 year terms. So 90 years of prison. But under the current criminal code in Missouri, you're up for parole after serving half of one life term, which is 15 years. And then you're up for parole again every one to five years after that first hearing. So I set up a website, protestpeteparole.com and we got. I mean, his opposition file has to be this thick. We got thousands of letters and emails sent in to the victim specialist office. And then he had his hearing, and he started it by, I've spent a lot of time in jail counting my victims. It was only 55. Like, that was gonna be a good look for him. Only 55. We know it's thousand. You know, it's like. And like, if you count, I. I don't consider myself well, I guess I am a Kanakuk victim, but not a direct victim like my brother was.

But if you start counting the family members of these victims, that might be hundreds of thousands of people whose lives have been shattered by this Viking like Pete, plus the 70 plus other perps we know about times, all the ones we don't know about. And then the collateral damage in these families. And our laws protect these institutions and these predators, and they can walk. I mean, we just posted a new perpetrator on our. On facts about Kanakuk yesterday because she got out of prison after three years. So that's a woman on so can I. We know female on female crime, male on female, male on male. Obviously, my brother's story. So it's the culture of we only care about counting the souls we've saved, not the kids who get. Get harmed along the way. We talked to Joe White about it. I mean, we've gotten him on a couple phone calls, and it's like he just starts weeping and playing the victim himself.

Do you know Andy Frisella by chance?

No. Should I?

You should probably know him. He's. He owns this big supplement company called first Form. He's a good friend of mine. He's in Missouri. He's in St. Louis. I know he's got some deep connections. I'll introduce you.

I'd love that.

And he's not scared of anything.

I'll talk to anyone who will listen.

I. I just.

At one point, I got connected with James o' Keefe at project Ver house. And then. So they were on this. Like, they were doing it. I had several zoom calls. And then when I had breakfast with James in Dallas one time, I explained the summer camp situation. He goes, I've never. I was like, elizabeth, I never thought about this. Camps are the perfect places to indoctrinate children. Like, yes, this American summer camp tradition is send your kids off into the woods for a month with strangers and hope they come back in one piece. But parents don't have a lot of insight. I mean, they could have gone to the camp themselves, but you don't get a lot of communication. You don't have a lot of insight into what they're teaching your kids. You know, that, like, whole culture situation at Canicuk. Especially alarming if you're there for a month. Like, I would usually only go for one or two weeks. Trey went for a month. But, yeah, so Project Veritas was like, this is so messed up. Like, how can we help? And I briefed them, and then James left Project Veritas, and it was new leadership and something.

And, like, I followed up and followed up and followed up, and I don't think.

Yeah, actually, we were teaming up with Project Veritas the first time I interviewed Ryan about all of that stuff, and they were we actually. We actually held the episode to release it at the same time because they had a bunch of stuff too, and then they backed out. So it was just me and Ryan.

Yeah.

The only ones talking about this.

Yeah. Well, new bestie. Thanks for Karen.

Yeah, well, I. I just. That's what I. I just. How could you not?

Everyone will tell you they care about child sexual abuse. And then when it. When the rubber meets the road, they don't. They don't want to do it.

These people give a shit. I just told you the last time when we brought up Roblox, they took a $6 billion haircut in one week. And I quit. I quit tracking it after that. We'll throw the graph up. The day we released that episode, it went. Lost 6 billion in one week.

Good. Because that's how you have to do it. You have to hurt them where it hurts. And it's. They care about the bottom line, unfortunately.

It's ridiculous that like, that's. That's the win. Oh, yeah. How many kids have been up because of that game? How many kids are dead? How many kids have card slut into their forehead because of roadblocks? And our win is like, oh yeah, we took 6 billion from them. Well, at least they don't have to run around with carved in their forehead everywhere they go.

Have you seen I. Yeah.

That's a 764 satanic cult.

Well, that's a Canacu. Victim has that in her leg.

What it was they were doing that kind of this satanic ritual. I mean, it all is right at all. All that sexual abuse is. But that's. That's a visible mark.

Yeah. I didn't know if I believed in all of that stuff. And then I met someone who ran the office for victims of crime OVC. And he put me in touch with my PIs, and he had just talked to some survivors of SRA and I was like, well, is that real? Like, you know, I'm still trying to process all of that at this point. I'm like, I've heard this from therapists over and over again. And he was like, Elizabeth, I didn't. I didn't think that was real until I started meeting all these survivors. And he's like, I just met with one in Missouri. Like, again, what the Missouri is going on? And. And she had no legs. They. They'd cut off her legs.

They. They cut off her legs. Where was she from?

Missouri.

I mean, what from this?

Not. No, not a can of victim. Like just a satanic ritualistic Abuse victim. And so this guy, he was like, I didn't, I thought it was like, you know, it's very dark and he's seen a lot of darkness. And he was skeptical until he started meeting these victims. And he's like, it's very real. I've talked to enough of them now to be convinced. And I was like, well, here's what I know about what happened to Trey. And then there's these other victims, like the things carved in their leg and stuff.

I'm like, this is, this is commonality out of can of cookbooks themselves.

The, the carving, those words that you mentioned. I've seen it once, physically, I mean, personally seen it once, traded other things to self harm, but not that.

But yeah, I've seen this was their own. I mean, I know it all stems from something, so I don't want to take away from that. What I'm talking about is a 764. The, the, the, the, the. The perpetrator would have the victim carve that into them. We're talking about the same.

Yeah. And you know, like I was saying earlier, the playbook is the. You start wondering when you look at, you meet with or talk to Catholic survivors, SBC victims, you know, can a cook these institutional situations, you're like, what book are they all reading? Because it's the patterns across these institutions.

Well, we uncovered that a couple weeks ago too. That. I mean, there's, there are. I mean, you've already brought it up. I can't remember if it was on the break or if it was on right here, but I mean, there's manuals everywhere on how to do It Playbook. I mean, there's tons of manuals.

Yeah, no, like, so what I showed you In Rick Brashler's PowerPoint, he's like, here's the literal book on how to find children and abuse them. And now that there's so much online, you don't need the physical book anymore. It's just these chat rooms and stuff. Yeah, but the fact that Pete Newman's devices were never investigated for child sexual abuse material, that keeps me up at night. The fact that it's a fucking cover up.

Oh, what else?

I mean, so literally, they hired. Being a corporate communications major, we had this firm, a huge PR firm, one of the largest in the world. They would send someone in as like guest lecturers in our classes, and there's one on crisis communications. And then I noticed when I started going back and digging into all this Pete Newman stuff in the COVID up, I couldn't find anything mentioned about Pete Newman as it associated it with Kanakuk until like the ninth page of Google search results. So I'm like this, they've spent millions on this cover up, right? Like I just knew that from my background. And then the spokesperson for Canacuk, his name, I googled it. And he was the head of crisis for the Americas for this large PR firm. And now he works for the Fed somewhere. But they hired the best crisis comms firm and team in the country to cover this up. And I, my team and I have like calculated a probably like 2 million dollar budget for this crisis PR cover up. And now what I know they're offering these lobbyists to oppose my bills like Trey's Law and SOL reform and camp safety.

They are telling us their budget. Like they offered that DC lobbyist 250k. They offered more to the Austin lobbyist. And it's like, okay, we'll just keep a spreadsheet going on how much money you're willing to spend against me on passing these child protection laws.

Good luck when this comes out. You can't buy this kind of pr.

Well, I'm grateful for the opportunity those people. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's, it's been a really eye opening six years.

This shit is gonna send. It's gonna go big. I know, I just can feel it. People are gonna be pissed.

I hope so, because this is righteous anger. This is what righteous anger is for. We need to be pissed about the right things. We need to be enraged by what's happening at Kanakuk and these other camps. I mean, Facts about Kanakuk is a whistleblower website that a bunch of survivors pulled together. A Kanakuk survivor put together our social media because he does that for work. And you know, the survivor army is growing and they're gaining their voices and now they can legally talk. At least the ones with Texas cases. We just filed it in Alabama. Trade laws filed in Alabama to end NDAs and child sexual abuse and trafficking cases in Alabama. We're filing it in Oklahoma alongside statute limitations reform. And yeah, if your audience wants to bring this to their state, let's go.

They're going to want to.

And federally, I just got word this morning that Senator Ted Cruz, my senator from Texas, he is going to sponsor Trey's Law federally.

That's awesome.

Yeah. And he's going to try to do it with Senator Gillibrand. She carries the Speak out act, so she's very familiar with this NDA issue. And so who's your Congressman, we are talking to several. A lot of them want it. Congressman Issa's office was really interested in this. He's a Republican out of California. California has a version of Trade's law that was part of a broader Crime Victims Act. And so we don't need to pass Trey's Law in California. They've already covered this base. But it's only Tennessee. Go Tennessee 2019. There was a plaintiff's attorney, a Democrat, and a very Republican legislature who said, this is evil. And he's deceased now. But representative back in Tennessee, it's just two. It's like two lines, one sentence that NDAs and child sexual abuse and trafficking cases should be void and unenforceable as against the public interest of the state. There was no hearing. They like, there's no testimony in the committee. Unanimous. Zero, no votes. And yeah, so that was 2019. So anyone under an NDA in Tennessee since 2019, void and unenforceable. And you have to change the law because the lawyers don't even know that's a law sometimes.

But so the lawyers are going to keep putting victims under NDAs. So you have to change the law so then the victim can realize or they can find a different attorney who tells them you were put under NDA in 2020. In Tennessee, it's void and unenforceable because of this 2019 law. And then Alabama. I'm from a big Roll Tide family. My grandpa didn't miss a game his entire life. And that came about because I have a ton of cousins in Walker county, my mom's side of the family, and they were following on Facebook, like this whole Trey's Law journey. And then out of the blue, I get a text from a representative in that area. It's like, your cousin told me about what you're doing. I would love the honor of bringing this to Alabama.

That's awesome.

I know. Like, okay, there are good people in the world. And then two weeks later, he texted me and he was like, I'm a senator now. And I'm like, what's going on in Alabama? There's like a special election or something. So that's Senator Matt woods. Now he's standing with survivors in Alabama. He just pre filed Trey's Law. And our House rep is David Faulkner, who's carrying Trey's Law and our camp safety bill in honor of Sarah Marsh, one of the girls who died in Camp Mystic. She was from Birmingham.

Nice.

And yeah, in Oklahoma, we're talking to the speakers, top council Representative Kennedy and. And then Ted Cruz's team at the federal level. Schmidt's office is willing to be helpful because Cannicux and Senator Schmidt's state. And then I got to know Senator Ashley Moody when she was Attorney General of Florida, and we were on a panel together at this event for the Policy Circle, talking about safeguarding innocence. And when she was AG of Florida, she had an over 90% success rate in prosecuting trafficking cases. Also, a mom like Young, so she was appointed Marco Rubio seat. So she's Senator Ashley Moody now. And so I'm keeping her team up to speed with what we're trying to do because she cares about this stuff. And then Senator Katie Britt's office, they've been supportive, and we'll have the Alabama tie in after this session.

Did you say Steve Toth helped you when he was in Congress?

So, yeah, he's a Texas state rep running for Congress, and he's running for Crenshaw seat, actually. And.

Oh, is Crenshaw helping you? He help out?

Not. No.

Did you reach out to him?

No.

You didn't?

No.

He probably should.

I'll. I'll get right on that. But Toth, he's a good guy because he stood with Rep. Leach on the House floor when the House was going to vote on Trey's Law. And I couldn't be there in Austin for some reason. So I was watching it, like, on. On my laptop. And you can see, like, right there next to Jeff Leach is Steve Toth. And he has this look of fury on his face as Jeff's doing the bill outlay, which is basically like saying, I'll send you the clip. I mean, it's super powerful. And then Mitch Little had some powerful comments, too. But in certain situations, when a bill's presented and people are passionate about it, if, even if it's not their bill, they'll go up there and stand with the bill sponsor who's presenting it. And Toth was, like, right there in the camera.

I would bet Crenshaw would bend over backwards to help you right now, because from what I've heard, he could really use a win. And he can't help you if he doesn't know about it.

Does he watch your show?

I don't know. I've heard he does.

Yeah. We'll give him a visit.

I'll put you in touch with his attorneys.

Thanks. Yeah, I mean, I think this is a slam dunk for anyone who wants to do something for kids right now, because the Epstein files aren't going anywhere at the moment.

So not a Whole lot of people in government wanted to help kids.

Not a whole lot of momentum on that.

A lot of people want to help pedophiles. Not very many people want to help kid victims.

But I haven't come across one elected official who thinks kids should be silenced, contractually, after surviving sexual assault or trafficking. It's a pretty hard thing to be against.

That's good to hear.

There's a lot more behind the scenes on that Texas bill, if you want to talk about it. But we landed the plane, and victims have their voices back. And the most poignant memory in this work from last year was when I got to tell that student of Angela Paxton, Senator Paxton's former student, September 1st. Two words. Be free. I love that he's free.

Elizabeth, what does. What do you have to accomplish to move on with your life?

I just think when you lose someone under these circumstances and crimes are involved, you have to understand the issue. First of all, figure out how to prevent it from happening to others. Because I hold this information. Now, my brother's not alive to talk about it, so I have to talk about it. And now I work with a lot of other survivors who are ready and willing to talk about it. And as long as they need me, I'm here. And I don't know what that looks like. I've thought about. I told you, my faith was shattered. Like, deconstructed it, reconstructed. Like, I've thought about going to seminary. I've thought about going to law school. And then I realized, you know, and helping pass these four laws in one year, I'm probably best served best service to others if I keep advocating with them, for them. Sometimes they need a voice. Sometimes they just need a mic. You know, Trey doesn't have a voice right now. Since my brother died, I've been trying to be his voice. Then there are other survivors who have just been silenced and suffering in the shadows. And having them testify at a hearing for a lot of them is so healing.

So these hearings are healing for them. Sometimes I'm just the first person they've ever disclosed their abuse to. And I just hold that as sacred, like it's holy ground. When a survivor discloses their abuse to you.

Yeah.

Yeah. This here is full of dry shampoo and secrets, because that I will not. Someone trusts me with that. I consider it sacred and holy. And then sometimes they need help. They need. They might need counseling. They might need rehab. They might just need someone to hold their story with them. And they might need to connect with other survivors. And now there's this whole community of Kanakuk survivors and other survivors of camp abuse and negligence who are finding healing and community. So I haven't gotten that far to to ask myself, like, what do I need to move on? Because I don't think you ever move on from loss. I think you move forward. And I'm of the strong opinion that as Christians, we're not supposed to just sit here and wait on heaven to happen. We are called to bring heaven to earth. And that's what I'll spend the rest of my life doing, is trying to bring more of heaven to earth. More truth, more peace, healing, transparency.

You need a break? All right, let's take a break. My days don't slow down. Between work, the gym and time with the kids, I need eyewear that can keep up with everything I've got going on. And that's why I trust Roka. I've tried plenty of shades before, but these stand out. They're built for performance without sacrificing style. I've put them through it all on the range, out on the water and off road. They don't quit. They're lightweight, stay locked in place and are tough enough to handle whatever I throw at them. And the best part? They don't just perform. They look incredible. Sleek, modern and designed for people who expect more from their eyewear. No fluff, no gimmicks, just premium frames that deliver every single time. And that's why Roka is what I grab when I'm heading out the door. Born in Austin, Texas, they're American, designed with zero shortcuts, razor sharp optics, no glare and all day comfort that doesn't quit. And if you need prescription lenses, they've got you covered with both sunglasses and eyeglasses. One brand, all your bases. Roka isn't just eyewear. It's confidence you can wear every day. They're the real deal, ready to upgrade your eyewear.

Check them out for yourself@roka.com and use code SRS for 20% off site wide at checkout. That's r o k a.com Want more from the Sean Ryan Show? Join our Patreon today for more clips and exclusive content. You'll get an exclusive look behind the scenes where you can watch the guests interact with the team team and explore the studio before every episode. Plus unlock bonus content like our extra intel segments where we ask our guests additional questions, our new SRS on site specials and access to an entire tactical training library you will not find anywhere else. And the best part? Patreon members can ask our guests questions directly. Your insights can help shape the show. Join us on Patreon now. Support the mission and become part of the Sean Ryan show's story. All right, Elizabeth, we're back from the break, but hey, on the break, you know, we were having a little chat. I didn't know you like firearms.

Yeah. Shout out to the Texas Gun Experience. I was just shooting out there.

Yeah, the Texas. I can only imagine what goes on in the Texas Gun Experience. But anyways, maybe the next time you go to the Texas Gun Experience, you can take this one in for real.

Oh, my gosh. Thank you.

You don't even know what it is.

The red dot. I open it like Christmas morning. Thank you. Hell yeah.

There you go. So, I mean, after. After interviewing you for whatever we've gone now two and a half hours, three hours maybe. You got a lot of enemies, so you're going to need something to protect yourself.

This is awesome.

Yeah. So that's the Sig P365 Legion with the red dot that you were going on about. And that is their lady. You want to hold it up?

Yeah, I was going to say magazine's not in it.

Magazine's not in it. It's safe. Holds 17 rounds plus one in the pipe. So 18 rounds. It's got the red dot. It's all metal obsessed.

Thank you.

That is the legitimately. I'm not just saying this. You're not going to get a better everyday carry in the sub pump compact category than that.

I'm so excited. My husband's also going to be so thrilled.

He'll probably be jealous.

He'll be very jealous.

You're rocking a hellcat now. Yeah, yeah, that.

I like that because you don't have to deal with the safety. It's like in the trigger.

But you'll like that better.

I already do. I like how it fits my. I have tiny hands.

We'll pop a couple rounds off at the end.

Okay. Perfect.

Before you head back.

Yeah, we deserve that. This is a hard topic.

Yeah.

Thank you.

You're. You're welcome.

That's. This is amazing. Thank you.

You're welcome.

Yeah, we're going to piss off a lot of pedophiles.

We're also going to piss off a lot of people at Cam Canaccook.

Yeah. Well, one in the same.

Yeah. Good. Good boy. So what are. What are we. What are we diving into next?

Well, thank you for brought up a.

Chart on the break.

Oh, yeah, well, that was just chit chat. But I did want to Show. Yeah. So this was just like side chatting. But I think the best visual to map out the whole Canacuk situation I shared is this network map. So my team of PIs, you know, whenever we're digging into something, we want to put it in a format that law enforcement can easily read and understand. But this is how big the web is. It's like every entity that Joe White or Canacuk Ministries has a hand in. You can see the little handcuff icon. And then we have a separate page that outlines the exact charges for those handcuffs.

But we'll put that on screen.

Yeah, it's just. It's not normal. So that's. Yeah, that's the.

Each one of these is a different business or LLC or what. What. What.

Exactly. Or ministries or churches. He's on the board, like, things he's affiliated with, and you can't find one that doesn't have some sort of.

It's not connected to the handcuffs.

Sexual exploitation of. So when you don't hold predators accountable, the first time you see a flag, you attract bad actors to your enterprises, and that's a mess. And I think with Joe White, I don't know what his deal is, but I assume it's a lot darker than just a culture of complacency. But in general, and what I wanted to talk to you about before we go shoot, this culture of complacency is a camp industry problem. It's industry wide. So, you know, I was doing this Canacuk stuff since 2021, trying to understand what happened to my brother, connecting with all these victims. And then I started looking at, okay, is Canacuk an outlier or is this the norm? And I started getting tips from all over the country, including other camps, many in Texas, who have victims under NDAs. So word starts getting out, especially as I started testifying in state legislatures. You know, when you're testifying at a hearing, that's public and anyone can watch it. And so I started reaching more of the masses that way. And then I'd get outreach from random people about camps or organized crime within churches and cults, oftentimes with irs, church status.

We've got to stop giving church status to cults. And that's an IRS issue on my list of things to discuss with the religion business guys.

You've had on Nathan.

Yeah, Nathan's doing really good work in the name of Christ to get rid of this corruption in the church. And I'm actually. I'm going to be shooting season two with them in a few Days. We're going to start that right on. Yeah. They also have zero chill about child abuse in the name of Jesus. So that's cool. I always love that. But so we figured out that the camp industry, nationally, in the US it's a. It's an American tradition. I don't know if it was where you grew up, but in my circles, like, everyone went to summer camp and some of them are just a couple weeks, some of them are a month long. And it's a $70 billion industry. About 26 million people are involved in summer camps every year in the US And I think there's so many positives to that. Right. It's like, get your kids off their devices and have them meet new friends from other places, get out in nature. Like, all of that is good stuff. Right. But for so long, parents have not asked questions. And that's why I wanted to talk about this, because you started this conversation about what do parents need to know?

And this is so important for parents to know that the camp industry is completely under regulated in some states, completely unregulated. So 15 states don't even require criminal background checks on summer camp stuff. Okay. That's not even how you catch the bad guys. That's just a baseline, right? To make sure you're not hiring people with a record. Hello. Dude, how can. It's common sense.

How can you run a business around children and not run a background check?

Yeah. So what I found is unless camps are regulated and there's laws that force that they don't because they are saving cost.

And that's what I was just. So they are looking for the lowest common denominator to watch your kids.

Correct.

The person that will take the least amount of payment. They don't give a fuck. No, it's just a. It's just a body.

Yeah. And a lot of these camps I mentioned earlier are for profit camps. And so they see kids as a commodity. Right. They want to recruit as many campers as possible and keep costs as low as possible. And that's their family business.

Doesn't anybody, like advertise the quality of the counselors that they hire or any of that shit? I mean.

One would think that they would want to be, you know, hold a high standard and be an example of proper hiring practices and, you know, going above and beyond what the state would require with a licensure process. But that is just objectively not the case. So 15 states don't require even baseline measures like a criminal background check. Nine states don't require Day camps to be licensed. Eight states don't require residential camps to be licensed. And in a lot of states, even where they are required to be licensed, if you're faith based, you're exempt from that licensure process. And so that makes me unhappy as a Christian that faith based is held to a lesser standard. It's like, shouldn't Christians be operating with a higher ethical standard and more excellence? But a lot of these Christian, especially in Missouri, if you're a faith based camp, you're exempt from the licensure process. And that was true in Texas until this year, 2025. Sorry.

So it attracts criminals.

Oh, yeah, it's a.

Because. Because there is no.

It is a. Oh, man. Yeah, exactly. Now, this isn't true of every camp, but parents need to be aware of the regulatory environment with summer camps so they can ask the right questions and decide if they want their children to be stewarded by these people that are oftentimes running for profit businesses, or if it's a faith based camp, they're held to no standard. In the name of freedom of religion, which I'm all about. But when it comes to kids, safety first.

So do you send your kids to a camp? No, I didn't think.

I mean, I would after what my family's been through and after what I've researched, again, I've had to. Aaron Brockovich, all of this, like, no one's doing this work.

Are there any good camps?

Of course.

Can you name any? Outward Bound. Have you heard of that one?

Which one?

Outward Bound. I think it's Outward Bound, Homeward Bound.

My husband did not. So you have, like, summer camps, and then you have programs like that that are a little bit different than a traditional summer camp. And then you have the troubled teen industry programs. And that's a residential program for a teen that like, maybe a very conservative parent catches their kid smoking marijuana and they freak out and they're like, you're a troubled teen. You have to go to this program. They get kidnapped in the middle of the night, show up at this troubled teen program, behavioral program. This is Paris Hilton's story. I don't know if you've heard about any of this. She got the Stop Institutional Child Sexual Abuse act passed by Congress because of her experience.

Paris Hilton.

Paris Hilton. And then there's a nonprofit called unsilenced, and they have a database of troubled teen programs that have allegations against them.

So did you just say Paris Hilton got something passed about what? I'm. What?

I know. Paris Hilton. Stop Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Act. And she and other survivors of the troubled teen industry rallied together to get Congress to approve this act.

Was she sexually abused?

She was abused at a troubled teen program in Utah.

No. We need to get her.

Yeah, yeah. She's really impressive, really smart. But then all of these other survivors have also coalesced around this, and Paris was willing to put her name on it, and they got it passed. Wow. So you have the troubled teen programs. There's actually a Netflix show called the program about this as well. The nonprofit Unsilenced is the one that has the database of these residential programs for troubled teens. So, like that Agape Behavioral Agape boarding school I mentioned earlier that moved from Washington state to Missouri to be less regulated, they would be in that database. There's active litigation against one of those programs called Shelterwood that was actually a Joe White affiliated troubled teen program. So, yeah, the summer camp industry, the troubled teen thing, a lot of times kids will go to summer camp, they're troubled. And so then Joe White or someone at the camp might recommend they go to a behavioral school or behavioral program. And what's been uncovered recently, and thanks to people like Pierce Hilton willing to put her name on it, there's been more awareness around that with your traditional American summer camp, like these sleepaway camps. Huge industry in the hill country in Texas.

And being from Dallas, I had a lot of friends that went to Camp Longhorn, Camp Mystic, a ton to Kanakuk, of course, too. But These are also 100 year old camps in the hill country, and they're in Kerr County. And that's like the county's industry is. A lot of it revolves around these camps because it brings in tourism. So my life changed again on July 4th of 2025, when I was at the beach with my family and my sorority sisters, group tech started blowing up, and it was like flash flooding in the hill country. I'm like. So I'm. I'm up in the northeast. I'm like, why are you giving me weather updates? And then that escalated into Lila's missing one of my sorority sister's daughters. And then I turn on the news. I mean, we're all getting ready for the fourth of July parade. And then I keep getting texts. There's a text I got of a cabin floating down the river with looked like 50 kids in it. Yeah. And. And then it quickly escalated from Lila's missing to Lila's dead, and all these girls are missing. And so, like, I'm with my three kids and my family, and we, like, are sitting at the fourth of July parade.

As all of this is like coming through on my phone and like, I'm like, oh no, I need to reach out to a Navy seal friend I know that's based in Austin and see if they're on it. Like what is going on? And you know, fast forward. 27 girls died at camp mystic during the flash floods in the hill country on July 4th. And it was completely preventable. So then I know this because I am camp negligence girl at this point. From everything I've uncovered about Kanaku and the camp industry, the American Camps association has been around for 115 years and they're the main accreditation entity for the industry. There are also some smaller camp organizations that lobby for mostly exemptions and waivers, not child protection. So my head immediately goes to. And it's horrible to say this, but I just know what I know. And these girls aren't missing. They're dead. And it's not, it's the camp's fault. It's negligence. Like just, you know, the pattern is there. I've also, I've been in touch with a dad from California whose daughter drowned at a day camp because the American red cross was fraudulently accrediting lifeguards.

That came out in a Washington Post article. There's just at every turn, the camp industry has had failures and they've had 115 years to do better. But here we are with 19 suicides affiliated with the Kanakuk situation. So Trey's not the only one that died by suicide. And then you have these 27, 8 year old girls, 8 to 10 year old girls who died because the camp didn't have an evacuation plan. In fact, their evacuation plan was to shelter in place. That's not an evacuation plan. What are you trained on and what were you trained? Like when there's flash flooding, what do you do? Get to higher ground.

High ground.

Get to higher ground, not rocket science. They left the 8 year old babies in the flood and they got swept away between 1 and 7am on the morning of July 4. Three of them were my friend's dog first.

Oh man.

I wear these bracelets in their honor. They're now known as the heavens 27. And one of them especially hit close to home because my sorority sister Caitlyn, like we lived together in the capitals, we studied abroad in London during college and she has three girls and Lila was the oldest and I couldn't stay at the beach while this was happening, right? So our whole family, we leave, we come back to Dallas, we Go to the service to Lila's funeral memorial service, and I go hug my friend, and I'm like, this wasn't your fault. She went to mystic, too, so she. I knew she was going to blame herself. And I was like, these camps, I. I'm here if you ever want to talk about this, whenever you're ready. And I was like, I'm not going to be the friend that brings you a lasagna or, like, a little note with flowers, but if you want to talk about camp reform, I'm here for it. And she goes, oh, I know exactly what I'm calling you for. And I was like, I'm pissed. She was like, I'm so pissed. I was like, yeah, I'm here. Then I went and talked to the dad, and he gave me the biggest hug, and he was like, I'm sorry.

I'm like, why are you saying you're sorry to me? Your daughter's memorial service. He was like, I had no idea what you've been going through the last five years, like, with Trey and, like, these camps, man. I'm like, yeah. He's like, I'm here when you're ready to tackle these issues. He was like, I'm going to have to take action or I won't survive this. I've lost a brother. And that was hard enough. I can't imagine losing a child, especially when they just needed to walk a hundred feet that way and they'd be alive. But the camp leadership told them to stay in place.

Oh, my gosh, man.

And there's still one camper missing, and her name is SEAL Steward, and she's from Austin, and they haven't found her. They are still looking for seal. The. The search is very active and ongoing. There were some Navy SEALs early on who jumped in to help search, and they were wearing these bracelets, SEALS for seal. And the first responders were amazing. People like that who just wanted to help showed up, started diving, recovering bodies. Now the search is under the purview of Captain Miller, former Green Beret. He's with the Texas Rangers now, and he's also a combat veteran. He's from there. He knows that river inside and out. You couldn't have someone better on paper to be searching for seal. And there's another man that's still missing, but Blake and Caitlin Lyle's parents. They called me a few weeks later after the service, and they were like, we're ready. I thought it would be way down the road like that. They would just hunker down. Grieve raise their other two daughters, and they were ready to fight. So took a call with them, and they're like, how did you pass Trey's Law? How do we go about reforming the camp industry?

And this was in the summer. So, you know, I mentioned Texas only meets every other year, their legislature. So there are things called a special session. If something doesn't get resolved during the legislative session, the regular legislative session, the governor can call a special session. And at this point, when I'm talking to my friends, there is a special session happening. But the Democrats have walked out over redistricting. So, like, nothing's happening in Austin. And because that stalled out, there's the likelihood that the governor was going to call a second special session. And I got in touch with my lobbying team who helped me pass Trey's Law. And one of them was, I mean, everyone's traveling in the summer, right? So I was, like, trying to run down this team. And one was in London, one was in Italy, and then there was someone available in Austin, and he actually knew Lila's dad, Blake, and got in touch with him. Then Karen Rove, who's married to Karl Rove, She's a lobbyist in Austin. And then another victim, their daughter was a counselor that went down with those girls.

Oh, man.

There are two counselors that we, Chloe and Catherine, we call heroes, because they could have left and saved themselves, but they went down with those girls, man. And they were both going to UT in the fall. One was going to be pre med, One was going to be a special education teacher. And they stayed with those girls till the end, and they followed orders which were stay in place, and it killed them all. And anyway, so Chloe's dad, Chloe being one of the counselors, and Blake, my friend's husband, Lila's dad, after I told them, like, here's some of the possibilities, we rallied the troops like the lobbyists we all knew in our group. There was one girl in Birmingham who died in the flood, Sarah Marsh. That's why we're bringing camp safety bills to Alabama. Next along, I called my sponsors for Trey's Law. Representative David Faulkner in Alabama represents Sarah Marsh's district, and he's going to carry this camp safety reform legislation for us in Alabama. I also have one of my friends in Missouri who has been House judiciary chair during this whole journey. For me, with Trey's Law and statute of limitations reform in Missouri, she's going to sponsor camp safety reform in Missouri.

Because this just touched everyone at the deepest level. Anyone who's a parent can't fathom losing a child on period. But under these circumstances when it was so preventable, like if that cabin had had a ladder to get on the roof, they'd be alive. If there had been any redundancy in the Internet connection, they could be. There's no communication. There were three adults trying to rescue hundreds of girls in that flash flood and they refused to evacuate them even after 1:15am it was like life threatening flash floods. A counselor was able to call 911 at like 3:30 ish. The camp didn't call until 7:30 and said we're missing between 20 and 40 girls.

Oh my gosh, man.

Horrible. So especially in Texas, this was all over the news, but I think it was all over the news everywhere. Did you hear about this Hill country flood? Yeah. So like everybody heard about this. And these parents in their acute raw grief came to the consensus that they don't want this to happen to anyone else, any other families. No other family should have to go through this. We don't want any other children. We don't want children going to camp next summer without some big changes. So what ended up happening is the second special session got called. These families, myself, our lobbying team, we went down to Austin. We met with the big three. The lieutenant governor, the speaker of the House and the governor. They held photos of their daughters and talked about them and what bright lights they were and what kind girls they were. And. You know, still in shock. I mean, have you, you probably have with your background, but seen someone trim her from trauma, it's just like so like some moms just like tremoring with the trauma and the shock and grief of their daughters not, not being with them anymore.

Those girl, the survivors of that flash flood in the Hill country traumatized left in Blackhawks. They're like, we sent our daughter to camp and they left in black. We didn't send them to a war zone and so much trauma. And that was the only camp that lost life.

That's the only camp.

The others had evacuation plans or got lucky. So all these lawsuits have dropped now claiming negligence, gross negligence, wrongful death. And, and now I, I wish I weren't alone in this. I mean I felt alone in this fight. Not just the Canacuk fight, but realizing this goes well beyond Canicuk. Like camps in general are so unregulated and unsafe and they don't prioritize. They prioritize low insurance premiums, profits, you know, getting their property taxes down. It's just like all the things you would think of to Run a normal business. But this is kids in their lives. So you need to go step further in protecting people's most precious as their children. Right? And in the case of mystic, none of that happened. These 27 babies died. The heavens 27. And those parents showed up and testified and passed the heavens 27 Camp Safety act and the Youth Camper act so that starting next summer, not waiting on the 2027 legislative cycle, which means that wouldn't be implemented till 2028. So it had to happen during that special for 2026 to be any different than this year. So now in Texas, it is not up to human error anymore or discretion.

You evacuate. No more sleeping babies in a floodway or floodplain. You have walkie talkies. You have things so you can communicate among the cabins in a situation like that. And what we've learned is not only was Camp mystic not prepared for a flood, even though it's called flash flood alley, and it's flooded multiple times before to the point where I've had alumni tell me that they remember when it flooded and the staff would bring them breakfast in a kayak like they knew. They know this floods. But yeah, they. They lost these 27 campers because they refused to evacuate them. Chloe and Catherine went by the documented orders, stay in place. We'll come get you. And. But now the camps in Texas are required to be licensed. No more waivers, no more exemptions. So that's huge because only 300 something camps were previously licensed, and there's over a thousand camps in Texas. They're required now to have a database on the website for the state of Texas about which camps have been licensed. And just more transparency. Right? So parents can make their own decisions about where they want to send their kids. And yeah, a whole bunch of other stuff, too, that makes camp safer for kids immediately in Texas.

That'll go into. That's in effect.

Man. Nice work.

Very proud of these families, who I now consider dear friends. But I wish I were. You know, I'm not alone in this fight anymore, but I wish I were. I wish it didn't have to be this way. There's an army of parents who are determined for their daughters to be remembered for their legacies to matter not just their lives, but in their loss. How do we prevent that? And I'm here for it. I'd like to read their names, if that's okay.

Absolutely.

Because the camp hasn't acknowledged their names in any communications.

Are you serious?

And they've announced their reopening. And one camper is still missing. Maybe recover all the bodies of your dead campers from last season before you reopen summer 2026.

Jeez.

It's actually one of the girls birthdays today. And I always hated it when people would say sorry for your loss because with Trey, it's like my loss, it's the loss to the world, right? And that's how I feel with these girls too. It's not just their family's personal loss. This is like I mentioned, future special ed teacher, studying to be a doctor. Some of them wanted to be veterinarians when they grew up. Or artists. This is what we've lost. Mary Grace Baker, Margaret Bellows, Lila Bonner, Chloe Childress, Molly DeWitt, Lucy Dillon, Katherine Ferruzzo, Ellen Getton, Hadley Hanna, Virginia Hollis, Janie Hunt, Mary Kate Jacoby, Lani Landry, Hannah Lawrence, Rebecca Lawrence, twins. Kellyanne Lytle, Sarah Marsh, Lenny McCown, who would be turning nine today. Blakely McCrory, Wynn Naylor, Eloise, Lulu Peck, Abby Pull, Margaret Sheedy, Rene Schmeestrela, Mary Stevens, Seal steward and Greta Toronzo. Those are the heavens 27 and they should still be here. Their deaths were completely preventable. So if that's not a wake up call to parents to the camp industry that we need to do better, I don't know what else it's going to take. We launched what's called the Campaign for Camp Safety and this is now under the no more Victims Alliance.

So you know it's all camp negligence, right? Trey's Law can't put victims under NDAs. I mean that camp I mentioned that had the cabin floating down the river. They've had a huge child sexual abuse problem. Camp Stewart, the brothers, Camp Mystics, all girls. Camp Stewart's a boys camp. They I got a call from a victim's mom because they wanted to put her son under an NDA. I have a whole database of these camps that have child sexual abuse problems. And I never thought, oh, as a mom I should also ask, do you sleep 8 year olds in a floodway? And so I started before you go to camp.com and it's for parents to know how to vet these organizations. And it started out as just questions to ask to understand do they have appropriate child sexual abuse prevention measures in place if they respond, we use the Canncook Child protection plan. Big red flag. We are going to add different categories to this before you go to camp.com to include these physical safety measures. Because Camp mystic wasn't prepared for an active shooter. I mean someone could have creeped up on those girls in a canoe on the river.

No plans for that kind of stuff either. But you know what's been heartbreaking is for these parents to realize that they just assumed that the same safeguarding measures in place at schools or your local ymca. I mean, I'm looking around this room, you know, there's exit signs, there's fire sprinklers. A lot of schools have carbon monoxide detectors like at camps. Nothing. I mean, when we were drafting these.

Bills, put blast film on every window. And we all carry.

Yeah.

A gun here. We don't fuck around with this stuff. Yeah.

And the only people that showed up for those girls were the camp owner. He also died. And first everyone was like, he's a hero. He died with those girls. And like, he died in a ship he built that had holes in it. But there is that guy, his son and the night watchman, Those were the only three adults around when these girls needed to be evacuated. They waited too late. And there's a. There's a verse in Ezekiel that one of the dads read at the state senate hearing. It's really powerful.

This place is opening up again already. And they.

Oh, they're. Yeah.

On the bodies.

Correct.

Who owns it?

It's a for profit family business owned by the Eastlands.

The Eastlands.

Dick Eastland, who passed away in the flood, and his wife Tweety. Tweety and Dick. Tweet. Yeah, Tweety and Dick. And then their kids help run it with them. So this is what Ezekiel 33:6 says. But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet to warn the people, and the sword comes and takes someone's life, that person's life will be taken because of their sin. But I will hold the watchman accountable for their blood. And I think that is all of our charge as the irresponsible adults in the room to be the watchmen and to protect kids, whether that's guarding their innocence from sexual abuse and predators or their physical safety. You evacuate children, go to higher ground when there is a life threatening flash flood warning. And you know how that river floods.

Damn, man. It's just.

So the campaign for camp safety is now focused on research. We're doing a national mapping exercise of what states have the worst lack of regulation versus, like, what's a model state, for example? So research and then advocacy, like passing the laws I mentioned, and then a Safe Summers fund. So to your question, like, are there good camps? Yes. Like, there are some camps that do Amazing. Like, think about camps for disabled children. Like, it's an opportunity for them to find people they relate with. Oftentimes the parents come with the kids to those camps, but there are some church camps. Like, they might.

Shit. All camps are supposed to be good. And I mean, you say that like, oh, yeah, I want to spend my kid with special needs there, do I? Or is there some sick fuck there that's got a fetish for special needs kids?

Well, yeah. And so one of my good friends, Catherine Wolf, she runs a camp in Alabama called Hope Heals. Her first book was Hope Heals. She suffered a massive stroke and half of her face is paralyzed. She's in a wheelchair. And for her 40th birthday, I gave her $40,000 personally to put a child sexual abuse prevention plan in place. Because some of those kids are non verbal. You would. I mean, how are you going to know? And she was so grateful. And they'd already done some. Her husband's an attorney. Like, they'd already done a lot to keep kids safe at that camp, knowing they're extra vulnerable, that population. But the parents go with the kids to that camp, which is neat too, because parents who are in a position of raising a child with special needs, they have camaraderie, right. And encouragement in that community. And so really grateful for Katherine Wolf and what she. I think what they've done at Hope Heals camp, bringing in some consultants, some real subject matter experts to make sure that these kids are safe there, that's so important. She's also the friend. I met her a month after Trae died and she was in her wheelchair.

I'd never heard of her, met her before and was with a mutual friend at something in South Carolina. And she grabbed my hand and she was like, what are you going through? And I was like, I just lost my brother to suicide a month ago. And she. In her eye, that works. She like, one tear came down her eye and she was like, I just want you to know that there are treasures in the darkness. Isaiah tells us that there are treasures in the darkness. I didn't really know what she meant by that in that moment, but as I've been through this grief journey and met so many other grieving people, I understand it now. Like, I would not be connected to a lot of these people. I consider now some of my closest friends. If we hadn't both endured the darkness, like, there are treasures in the darkness, you know, would we all trade it to, in their case, have their daughters back for me to have my brother back of course. But that's why I read the Serenity Prayer, because, you know, it talks about being reasonably happy in this life and supremely happy in the next.

Like, it's not all hunky dory here on earth.

Yeah.

And we can find those treasures in the darkness, though those glimmers of hope, those signs. And I brought this book to share because a lot of the families.

I just want to say something real quick, you know, when we're talking about these camps. And, like, this isn't just camps. This is schools, stadiums, malls, venues, every. Churches, everything. I mean, we've got. We have an active shooter pro program, an active shooter problem in this country. Every school that gets hit. Oh, we didn't think it was gonna happen. We didn't want to put the blast film on the windows. We didn't want to put in a security system. We didn't want to pay for a security guard. We didn't even want to get our lazy asses up and lock the door. And how many kids are dead from active shooters? Because nobody. It's not gonna happen to us. Happened right here. Covenant. Well, we yanked our kids out of school. I mean, it's just. It's just. It's like, man, what the Is it gonna take for you to take this seriously? Put the blast film on the windows, lock the doors, get a security guard, put a drone up over the school when Charlie Kirk is talking, like, what the, man?

Common sense.

What the. Have the kids go up the hill when the flood comes?

Correct.

What is. What the. Is happening, man?

So it's a.

This country is perishing fast.

The. The Covenant shooting was personal to me, too, because the senior pastor of that church, his daughter Hallie, died in that shooting. And he. He married my husband and me. He led my husband to Christ in college.

Our nanny went to church there.

Well, you helped on the backside, right? You, like, secured the. Yeah, thank you.

I did. Whoa. I didn't do much. I went there and I did a free security assessment. After it happened, that was. That was it.

And it's the after it happened that's so devastating. So how to. You know, circling back to what we talked about earlier is like, how do we go upstream to prevention and value prevention and put resources towards prevention? The legislative process is so reactive.

You do what you're doing or you homeschool your fucking kid and take charge.

Yeah.

That's what you do. So you yank your kids out of the system because the fucking system doesn't.

Work in Texas this last year, another big win for kids Is that Representative Mitch Little, who I mentioned earlier, helped us with the drafting on Trey's Law. He passed a bill that removed sovereign immunity from public schools because that's a thing where schools cannot be seen. Public schools cannot be sued for child sexual abuse.

What?

Correct.

What?

So that just changed in Texas, and that needs to be changed in every state. I can only tackle so much at once, and it's statute.

You say that again. If your kid is sexually molested in a public school, you have no recourse to fucking sue. You can let that shit sink in.

You can sue the perpetrator, but not the school. Until now, in Texas, you can sue. You can hold accountable everyone that was involved, including the institution.

Is this involved with the Texas gun experience?

So, like, I went to shoot with this sweet guy named Chandler. I say sweet.

Sorry, I gotta bring some humor into this.

You and me both. But yeah, I was shooting and he was like, okay, you've done this before. He's like, what do you do? And I was like, oh, I hunt pedophiles. Not with guns, with the law. He's like, what? Who are you? But changing laws is how we get ahead of this. And you know, the heavens 27, the camp safety acts that have been passed in Texas, we're gonna have a ripple effect of that across the country. But I want to go back to what you said about this isn't just camp, this is youth serving organizations, all of them. And if I could tell the audience, or, you know, you're not asking, but I'm going to just say three things that could change overnight and make a huge difference. It would be getting rid of NDAs that we've discussed the statute of limitations so that victims have more time to sue on their own terms and in their own time. So the. So that justice system doesn't do more harm on top of the harm that's already occurred. And then insurance companies requiring subject matter expert base, like best practices in child sexual abuse prevention or child safeguarding in general.

All hazard before they ensure that organization. Because these organizations aren't going to run without insurance. And so that is a real root issue here is the insurance companies, stop fighting me. Insurance lobbyists get on the side of good and let's prevent these nuclear settlements you're so afraid of happening. If an organization that you insure gets hit with a lawsuit, prevent the lawsuit from ever being necessary. Insurance could pull that lever overnight. It would change the game. It's not rocket science. And then parents, consumer pressure would be another one. I'd add Actually, so the reason Kanakuk's still in business, besides all of the legalities, I've gone over just the lack of law enforcement statute limitations, is parents still send their kids there. The reason Camp Mystic's reopening. Parents will still send their kids there. That is. So, I mean, I call them sheeple.

There's a lot of them.

And there is the cult aspect to some of these camps, too, where it's like, oh, well, my grandma went there and my. You know. And so it becomes this kind of dynastical camp cult, and kids aren't safe again. It's been 115 years since the American camps Association, like, started. They've had 115 years to get this right. When they last updated their accreditation measures, and I think it was like 2019, it didn't include anything about child sexual abuse prevention. So either they're complicit in the problem and have an issue themselves, or they're so naive that they don't know this problem exists. How do you live in this world and not know this problem exists?

Everybody knows this problem exists.

I mean, everybody. So if we know the problem exists, I always try to say solutions oriented. So I'm going to stay solutions oriented. We know the problem exists. You have primary prevention, you have secondary prevention, and you have tertiary prevention. With a bunch of other colleagues and other foundations, we've started something called the Safe Childhoods initiative to bring more private funding into the field of child sexual abuse prevention because people need to understand this is preventable. We just hosted a conference in Dallas at our office campus for foundations and like, you know, private funders, even some practitioners, subject matter experts, to a symposium to talk about prevention. One of the. Just to give a couple examples that hopefully provide some glimmers of hope here. There's a doctor from Sweden. He came and talked about his. It's a injected medication for pedophiles.

A what?

An injected medication for pedophiles that takes away their urge to act upon their desires. And he's tested this.

There's a medication that pedophiles can take that will take their. Their.

I call it like, ozempic for pedophiles. Like, you get this injection every 100 days, and you don't have the urge to act upon your desires because pedophiles come into just, you know, research shows, for the most part, you know, you're a pedophile when you go through adolescence. So just like anyone comes into whatever sexual attraction they're going to have, it's when you Hit puberty and adolescence. And so there's a lot of juvenile offenders. I mean, a lot of child sexual abuse is peer on peer. So it's not just about creepy adults. First of all, they usually don't come off as creepy. I mean, there certainly is that, but it's usually someone the kid knows, loves and trusts. It's not stranger danger like we were taught in the 50s, but someone the kid knows, loves and trusts. A lot of it is familial, which is sick, especially when you get into the trafficking. So not all child sexual abuse is trafficking, but all trafficking is child sexual abuse. Right. When you get into the trafficking statistics, so much of it is familial within the family. But yeah, this injection for pedophiles, it does something in the brain that reduces the urge to act on those desires on your sexual attraction to children.

Does it actually work on sexual attraction to children or is it just sex drive in general?

Yeah, so I asked that and it's, it's sex drive, which is sexual attraction to children. And a pedophile, like they don't have a sex drive.

Oh, okay.

That is their sex drive.

Yeah. Okay.

And it's criminal. And if you can, if you can intervene early enough, then they don't act on their urges. So this trial started with 500 pedophiles and 5,000. Now they're scaling it and in talks to bring it to the US and you know, my head went when I first heard this presentation in Sweden. Her Majesty Queen Sylvia invited eight foundations to her palace December 2024. We were one of eight foundations invited because we're one of eight foundations that funds this issue of child sexual abuse prevention at the seven figure level and above. Not a lot of us. Only about 150 million in private funding goes towards child sexual abuse prevention globally on an annual basis.

Globally, yeah.

So how are we going to make a dent in this with the lack of private funding? Because public dollars follow private funding for the most part. And so what we do at the Phillips foundation is we like to incubate innovative or new concepts, provide the proof of concept to then take it to the state and say, this works. Look, it'll actually save taxpayer dollars if you scale this versus ignoring the issue. And that's worked with a lot of our initiatives through our foundation. That's an approach we take. We're not a traditional foundation, but we got summoned by the Queen to the palace in Stockholm. She had started the world Childhood Foundation 25 years ago. She was really ahead of her time on just addressing Child sexual abuse as a problem. And her daughter Princess Meline is about to. Because Queen Sylvia is now in her 80s. She's passing the torch to Princess Meline, who is really amazing. She was so nice, so chill. She just moved back to Stockholm from Florida with her kids and she's going to take this on for her, you know, carry the legacy on. So we, we all convened in Stockholm.

We heard from this doctor I mentioned. We heard from a few other people that study pedophiles and have some promising interventions. And then we grew the group from those eight foundations to like 15 foundations to what we just hosted in Dallas. And then there was another one, maybe 30. And now in Dallas it was like 50. And so we're trying to grow interest in the private funding because, you know, as we were saying, everyone will tell you they care about this issue, but we vote with our dollars. Right. You know, someone's priorities by where they're spending their time. Money, time, treasure, talent. And there's just not a lot of money flowing into this issue. Anti trafficking, yes. More so child sexual abuse prevention, not so much reacting to child sexual abuse. You know, children advocacy centers get a lot of funding even from the state. I think state of Texas gets something like 80 million in appropriations to their children advocacy centers from the state prevention. However, that number I mentioned, 150 million.

Damn, man.

So we need to take this issue from millions to billions. Not that money alone can solve it, but it can fund these promising innovations so that we make a dent in this issue. Yeah, but it also requires a culture shift where parents are asking the right question, questions of their kids, school of wherever they're playing sports. I, you know, I have a PI on retainer and you know, not everyone can do that. But before my kids are coached by anyone, I run a background check. Sad to say, we've not proceeded with certain people because they don't pass the criminal background check. But everyone else in Dallas thinks this guy hung them in.

And Michael, man, you'd think this would just be common sense. These days you don't have to have a PI on retainer to get a background check.

Well, right. I mean, we like to dig a little deeper beyond a background check because sometimes, you know, the, your typical criminal background check isn't going to do a sweep of their social media and what are they posting and what are the patterns like? One of the concepts that was presented that symposium is a database for gray area perpetrators. So this is someone who maybe had red flag behavior, but it didn't rise to criminal. So it's not going to show up on a background check. But there are conversations around these databases where someone is terminated due to red flag behavior or breach of policy related to child sexual abuse. So like, maybe they're in the girls locker room and shouldn't be. They're not going to get arrested for that, but they're going to get terminated for a violation of policy. And I want to check that database. I want to check someone's name against that database because it goes way beyond. Just like a criminal background check.

Yeah.

So, you know, those are the things we're working on. And I want to leave your audience with some hope and also a call to action. There is hope, but it takes action, it takes advocacy, it takes dollars. And we're putting together also through the Safe Childhoods Initiative, a menu, if you will, of investable opportunities that can help prevent child sexual abuse.

It also takes just spreading the word around.

Yeah.

Getting loud about these things.

We have to talk about it because.

You know, if nobody goes to cannacook, then they're not in business.

That's what I mean. We vote with our dollars. And that's how, you know, our family office and foundation, we invest that way through. I look at it as a lens. Right. So it's not just a program area of the foundation where we are incubating promising concepts, but we are also applying this child safeguarding lens to anyone we grant to or anything we invest in. So we just invested in this technology that helps hire substitute teachers for public schools. Schools. And I'm like, I, I think that's a great investment. But I want you to ask these additional questions about how are they screening? Right? How. What are the, what's the process for vetting these substitute teachers?

How do these, how do these, how do these come to you? How do these entities or nonprofits or companies, whatever they are, how do they come to you? How do they find you?

Yeah, so. Because early on, so I started running the Phillips foundation when I was about 24. And so now, you know, it's been over a decade that we've put ourselves out there as interested in impact investing. So we, everything we invest in, we look at the impact because I want to take a first, do no harm approach and strategy to our investments. Now there's a spectrum of impact investing all the way to, you know, ETFs, but down to venture philanthropy. And there's different returns for each of those asset classes in different parts of the spectrum. But across that spectrum, we're asking questions about if you're A company or a concept that involves children, then we want to diligence you a different way than, you know, your run of the mill real estate business, let's say. So we use this lens across our portfolio for profit and on the foundation, on the foundation grant making side. And so when we had this conversation with that investee I was mentioning, they were so receptive. They said, and on top of what you've asked, we're going to look into these three other things too. So, like, the more we talk about it and the more we elevate this conversation to match the data, 1 in 5 girls, 1 in 7 boys globally will be child.

Will be victims of child sexual abuse. So abused before the age of 18.

I mean, I'll bet 50% of the people that have been on the show have been sexually abused as a child. It blew my mind.

I think it's much higher, I think it's much higher than what data shows because of the delayed disclosure issue. The shame, especially with male survivors.

A lot of these, a lot of them tell me off camera, but a lot of them tell me on camera.

And it's, it's. Yeah. And I came forward about my own sexual assault when I was in college at a Senate committee hearing in Texas. Because I'm holding all of these stories with people sharing their worst trauma with me. I was like, I need to be brave too. I need to. I'm going to disclose what happened to me when I was 21. I wasn't a kid, but it was an attempted rape. I was able to escape the guy. And then I got dragged into a criminal court case around that. I didn't think anything would happen, there would be any justice. But the Dallas DA's all that, started testing the rape kit backlog. Have you heard about this issue? It's a national issue.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah. So they start testing the rape kit backlog. This guy's DNA ties to several victims. I didn't do a DNA kit because mine was an attempted rape. Not one that would require a rape kit. Yeah, I get a call from the senior detective for homicide, cold cases and sexual assault. I just left filming a PBS segment in North Carolina for something and I get this call. I'm like, huh? Trey had just died. I was the board chair of an anti trafficking organization. I'm like, this could be one of 20 things, right? And they're like, we detained Rafa Alvarez in Houston. And I was like, what? That I have not heard that name in a minute. But the rape kits had tied his DNA to all These assaults, and they're like, will you be a witness? Like, hell, yeah. Called the right girl. But in the. And then I was assigned a victim advocate, which was really ironic, considering I just become a certified crime victim advocate myself, because I was so far into all these disclosures, people telling me what had happened in their childhoods. And I wanted. I don't know why. I just needed a piece of paper to tell me that I was certified in something like.

So I just gotten that, and then I'm assigned one. And we went through the criminal process. Trial got postponed two times, and then the statute in Texas on that. The reason it was in statute is there's an obscure part of the statute in Texas that if a perpetrator has more than five victims, there's no statute of limitations criminally. Unfortunately, like, two of the victims dropped out after trial got postponed so much that they didn't have the five victims willing to testify. So he's just outliving his life. And I came forward about that in the Senate committee hearing in Texas because I was so inspired by friends like Cindy Clemenshire, who was a victim of Robert Morris, one of the largest megachurch pastors in the country out of North Texas. She was 12 when he started abusing her. And we caught him finally in Oklahoma because of a loophole and statute there, where it was like a frontier law. So if you come through the state, commit a crime and leave it told, the statute of limitations doesn't apply. And so they were able to get Robert Morris through that statute in Oklahoma. And then a bunch of women were inspired by Cindy's story, came forward in Oklahoma about an Assemblies of God pastor, Joe Campbell, also from Missouri.

He was running a camp in Missouri.

Holy.

Yeah. So anyway, so we're at this hearing, Cindy's testifying, and then there's this. This young man named Joseph who was abused in the Assemblies of God. They have a college ministry called Chi Alpha. Just a cesspool for these predators. And his abuse started when he was a minor but went well into his adulthood. So after hearing our testimony, like, I refer to myself as a college kid. We call them college kids. You're a kid, like. So after Joseph testified about being abused up to, like, age 23, 24, we were advocating for Trey's law to apply to sexual assault survivors of any age. And that's what we got passed in Texas, because college kids shouldn't be put under NDAs either, when they've survived a sexual assault. Yeah, someone like Joseph definitely should have never been put under an NDA for what he survived. But he also exposed that the Assemblies of God was using NDAs at the staff level. So they'd have people come in a closed room and talk about, how are we going to cover this up? Sign an NDA before we disclose what's going on. So Trey's Law addresses that, too. So, like, yeah, it voids NDAs for employees as well, who knew something about the abuse.

It's all released. All truth Set free. Truth Set free. And Texas. I'm so proud of Texas because what we accomplished with Trey's Law in Texas is the best outcome possible for what we wanted this law to achieve. And I see signs of Trey everywhere. That's what keeps me going. And I brought this book, Signs. It's by Laura Lynn Jackson. The. A lot of the moms of the heavens, 27 read this book, too. And she grew up as a Christian. I also believe that people have spiritual gifts. And so she. I don't think the two are in conflict with each other. I think some people are just more in touch with the other side than others. And Laurelyn Jackson's one of those. And so people have labeled her a top medium in the country. But her book is Secret Language of the Universe Signs. Secret Language of the Universe. And these signs that I get from my brother and that these families are getting from their angels above are undeniable. And I am so convinced that when people leave this earth, their spirits are still with us. And when Trey died, I got inundated with a bunch of notes from a lot of friends and people who loved him, who care about my family.

And there were three out of, like, all these hundreds of notes, three things that really stuck with me. One was from a childhood best friend's mom. She wrote in her note with a lot of other things, too, but she said, the veil between heaven and earth is so thin. And I was like, wow, I've been. I've been feeling that, you know, you kind of notice thing. People sometimes say, it's a butterfly, it's a cardinal, it's a rainbow. The signs I've gotten from Trey aren't just generic. It's like very specific and. And powerful. And then.

Can you share any? I've had this happen a lot.

Yeah. So an example is about two weeks before he died, he dropped off this potted plant on my porch. And I wouldn't say we were, like, fighting. I just, as I mentioned earlier, set up some boundaries where I didn't want to get sucked into, like, three hour phone calls every night about how Suicidal, he was. Stuff like that. I was like, I need boundaries. I have kids. So we were at that point in the relationship where I just set some boundaries. He dropped off this potted plant with a sweet note. And it was on my porch when I got back from North Carolina. My husband's from North Carolina. We go back and forth quite a bit. And I don't think he even knew we were in North Carolina. So anyways, it was on my porch. I bring it inside, I read the note, and then he died. So that's the last thing I got from my brother. And my oldest child at the time was going into first grade, and one morning it was like. So Tray died in August. Was like, October maybe. My oldest son is like, can I tell you about a dream I had?

I was like, yeah, sure. This will take 10 minutes, right? It's a 7 year old, had a dream. It's gonna be something weird and funny. 40,000 words later, he had me type it out. It was a story about an evil villain named Captain Pete who was trying to take over the world. And the kids fought back and defeated the evil Captain Pete.

Holy shit.

And he didn't know any. He did not know that Trey had been abused by someone named Pete. He didn't. He means so little. Like, I'm not telling him how Trey died. At that point, my therapist said, only answer the questions your kids ask because of how little they are. And just answer the question. Is Uncle Trey in heaven? Yes. Did Uncle Trey die? Yes. You know, the other questions came later, the more complicated ones, the sad ones. But he didn't know anything about the circumstances of Trey's abuse or how he died. And I brought you these books. So he's a published author now? Three times over. It's called the Magic Island Chronicles. And I hope your kids can enjoy these. One day, he's about to come out with the fourth, and it's dedicated to his uncle T. Really special. And so, yeah, that's one example. And then I took him to Paris that October, and our flight out of Paris got delayed. Delayed, canceled. So we had to hop over to Heathrow, spend the night in London. We're at breakfast the morning after that, so we're not supposed to be in London. Like we were supposed to fly back from Charles Gaulle in Paris, and we're suddenly stuck in London.

Thank you.

We go to breakfast. That exact flower that Trey had dropped off on my porch before he died was on our breakfast table. Look around the room, I start crying. And my son's like, why are you crying? I'm like, these are the flowers Uncle T gave me right before he died. I'd never seen them before in my life. And they're at our breakfast table. And no other tables around us have these flowers. Wow. Stuff like that all the time.

You want to hear one of mine?

I do.

My best friend died of a heroin overdose. And we. We worked. He was a seal. We contracted at CIA together, and he got really wrapped up into opiates. He was part of Red Wings, if you know what that was. It was the biggest loss in SEAL team history at the time. Anyways, When we left the agency, he was living with me for a long time, and I was trying to save him. And then that was in Florida. I moved to Tennessee, and he. He overdosed shortly thereafter. But while he was. While I was still in Florida, he was trying to. He was a pro hockey player before he was a seal. And so he. While he was all jumped out, he would tell me, I'm. I'm going to start the Wounded warriors hockey team. And the Panthers, the NHL team, they're going to sponsor it. And I'll be like, okay. Okay, Gabe. Right on. And best of luck. The day he died, the Panthers went over to his condo to tell him that they were going to fund his team, and they found him dead.

What?

He had overdosed. And so fast forward the teams. That's his jersey right there. The Panther, Warriors, Panthers.

Oh, my gosh.

And they still funded it. So let's fast forward. Right, So I always. I'm always talking to Gabe. And I did this interview overseas that ruffled a lot of feathers, and with the Taliban. And. Because I. I had me and a guy legend had broken the story that the US government's sending 40 to $87 million a week to the Taliban in cash. And I got really paranoid, and I was like, oh, shit, they're gonna fucking kill me. And we had come back. We went. We did the interview in Austria, and we came back and that. This is at my old studio. That jersey was hanging right when you walk in the front door. Probably been hanging there for about three years. I come home from that, and I'm already paranoid. And that thing has fallen on the floor. No glass broke. The nail hole wasn't weird. It just was on the ground. And I felt like Gabe was trying to tell me something. So the whole day I'm like. And nobody else was at the studio except my assistant. The whole team was in Austria. And I asked her, did you. There's no reason for you to have Done this.

But why? You know, she's like, I wasn't like that yesterday. And so everybody leaves. I'm pacing around, and I'm like, gabe, what are you trying to tell me, man? What do I need to be looking out for? And I go home, I tell my wife, and she just looked at me, and she goes, the Panthers just won the Stanley cup yesterday.

What?

And I was like, holy. And then I. And then I found it on June 28, which is the day Red Wings happened. And those were his guys.

Wow. It's specific.

Oh, yeah.

There's no doubting that Gabe saying, hello, yeah, Panthers one or something.

Yeah. So I started laughing because Katie told me that. And I was. I started laughing because I was like, man, Gabe's over here, probably looking at me like, you idiot, I'm not trying to warn you of anything. The Panthers just won the Stanley cup, and it's June 28th.

It was a celebration.

Yeah, I know, I know. I was like, man, I gotta stop taking myself so seriously. But. But I've had a lot of, like, that happen, man. And. Well, it's definitely not a coincidence.

It's not a coincidence. I don't believe in coincidences. And I will say another note that I mentioned three that really stood out. The second one was a woman who had lost her husband and her son in the same year. Her son was a friend of mine. And she wrote in the note, joy and sorrow can coexist. And I really needed to hear that. And to your point of taking yourself so seriously, it's easy to do that when you're experiencing a tragedy and going through grief. But we have to give ourselves the permission to feel joy and sorrow. They can coexist. And then another note a friend wrote, her brother was really good friends with Trey. She's one of my best friends.

How do you do that? How do you find joy and sorrow? Have you figured that out?

Well, that's what these signs tell me to have. And if you listen to them, you know, that's Gabe. Like, panthers, wand, smile, chill out. And these signs. That's what I always get. It's like a chill out. Like, you have so many blessings, so many things to be grateful for, like, focus on that. And. But it doesn't fix the sorrow. But joy and sorrow can coexist, and you can find purpose in the pain. And that's why I am so energized by the work I do. People are like, aren't you exhausted? It's like, constantly. I've gotten rid of the drug dealer. Phone now. And I just, like, use my normal phone. I'm not so scared of the can occult at this point. They should be scared of me, not the other way around. And they are. Now that I've seen Trey's NDA, after September 1st, I know exactly why they're so scared of Trey and of me. Kanakuk specifically demanded the NDA. Not the insurance company, not the other defendants. They tacked on more money if he would sign the NDA, and his lawyer let him do it. And he called it blood money. And so this third note I got from my friend whose brother was close with Trey, she said, God's work is not done with Trey yet.

And that gets me up in the morning and gives me the fight I need to have. I don't know if you feel this with Gabe or others that have been close to you that you've lost, but they're okay. They're whole and healed.

Oh, yeah.

We're the ones left behind to do the work that the lessons they taught us tell us to do. And if you can't have joy in that, I think it's a slap in the face to your loved one on the other side. They don't want us to be sad every time we think of them. So they send us these little glimmers, and they send us these and call them God winks.

Sometimes you gotta be paying attention, though.

You have to be open to it. You have to be paying attention. And if you are, then it becomes sustainable. At least for me. Otherwise, this is so depressing. I mean, yeah, I'm just here, Shawn, to lighten the. Lighten the mood today about child rape. And I hope your next guest is, like, something.

Oh, you want to know who my next guest is?

Who is it?

Ro Khanna. Oh, we're talking about the Epstein files.

Good. I can't wait to watch that. We posted one of his quotes on our Trey's Law social media. He had some good ones. And, yeah, I'll be real curious to hear what he has to say about that.

Yeah, him and Massie really blew the lid off of that. Thank God somebody had the nuts to do it, right?

I respect and stand with those survivors so much because they've been waiting for 20 years. And, I mean, Keaniguk's about to catch up to it because it's been like, Pete Newman's been in prison for 16 years, but there are thousands. There's over a thousand Epstein victims and no justice. And I'm glad that the public is pressing in and putting pressure on the files being released, whatever that looks like. I don't. I couldn't tell you tactically how to do that, but it can't be that hard. Keep calling it out. I appreciate you.

I will. I appreciate you. But, man, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for coming. Thank you for what you're doing.

It's a sacred honor.

Let me know if I can help anymore.

I'll be in touch.

I'd love to jump. All right. No matter where you're watching the Sean Ryan show from, if you get anything out of this at all, anything, please, like, comment and subscribe. And most importantly, share this everywhere you possibly can. And if you're feeling extra generous, head to Apple Podcasts and Spotify and leave us a review.