Transcript of #339 Christian Craighead - The Uncensored Story of the Nairobi DusitD2 Attack

Christian Craighead, welcome back, my man.

Thanks, Sean.

I'm nervous. How are you feeling?

Yeah, I'm feeling, I'm feeling all right about it. I'm just gonna roll with it.

It's a good nervous. It's gonna be powerful.

Yeah, it seems like everyone else is more nervous about this than I am. But, uh, maybe I'm just in denial like always, and then, then afterwards, and then I'll realize the gravity of it all.

Well, I saw you pacing around out front there earlier, so—

Yeah, that's me doing my whole thinking, pacing.

But well, this is going to be a powerful interview. But you know, you've been on the show once. We did a life story on you, and, um, and believe it or not, you made a promise on there that said if you ever did recount the actual day that it would be here and you kept the promise. Thank you.

Here I am.

And ironically, we're basically neighbors now.

Yeah.

Which is really cool.

Yeah. We live like 20 minutes, 15 minutes away from each other now.

And last time you were here, you were still in UK.

I was back and forth.

Yeah.

And then I haven't been back to the UK for a few years now, but yeah. Well, pretty much straight after that interview, that was more or less the last time I was in the UK.

How does that feel?

It's a weird feeling because I cannot say how much I love this country. I love it so much in every way. Uh, obviously there's, there's some things that I, I'm not keen on or whatever, like everything in life you can't be happy, but I, I love this country so much and I love being here and it's such a privilege. Um, and I've said this lots of times, I only wish more Americans could see that. That's why everyone's trying to get in, no one's trying to get out, no matter how bad they say it is. And that's a— it's one of those things where people say it's the United States of America is so good, you even the people who hate it won't leave. So, um, so there's that. So I love— It's incredible.

I love—

actually love being here. And what the strangest, um, it's just strange how things work. So in my hometown, which is in northern England, there's a small village where I was first, uh, baptized into the Church of England. And then, um, And I— that's like my thinking spot. I'd go there, and every time I was in the country, or if times were hard, I'd jump in the car, drive from Hereford up to Northeast England, go to this spot and just walk around and kind of get energy off it. And just, I love, I love that place so much as well. And the last time I was there, I went to this thinking spot, like a bunch of trees, and something came over me of thinking This is the last time I'm ever going to be here, which did not make any sense because at the time I'd had a, I had a plan to come back. I think it was only 3, 4 weeks later to pick up some more stuff because I was getting moving all my footprint over to the United States. So I was planning on coming back, but something is sure as, sure as I knew it, something said, you, you will never come back here.

So me being as dramatic as I am, I was thinking, oh, maybe I'm going to have a car wreck and die, or maybe there's going to be a, um, something catastrophic happen in the UK. But I was sure that I was never gonna visit this place again, and it made no sense. Then it's funny how things turn out, and now that's true.

Wow.

Um, I'll never— I'll— at this point in time, it's likely that I was right. I can't go back to my, um, to my country where I was from, but now America is my home.

As, uh, our relationship continues to develop, you know, now that you're 20 minutes away, we're 20 minutes apart, and, um, gone to Mass together, went to Mass together this morning, go out to eat together, you're at my son's and my daughter's baptism, um, you know, one thing I've noticed about You and your life, or just how many odd synchronicities, um, unexplainable synchronicities happen in your life. And I have a lot of those happen too, but, um, I want to dive into some of those, you know, as, as we go through the interview. But I want to start with an introduction. So, Christian Craighead, You're a former British SAS operator who joined the military at age 16, served with the Parachute Regiment and Pathfinder Platoon, and went on to spend nearly 15 years with 22 SAS on high-risk operations around the world. In 2019, while training forces in Kenya, you responded to the Al-Shabaab terrorist attack at Nairobi's Dusit D2 complex, Helping lead over 700 civilians to safety and engaging the attackers, actions that later earned you the conspicuous— the conspicuous— actions that later earned you the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross. Now with your— now with your memoir, One Man In, you're telling the full story of that day and the fight that followed.

And one of the survivors, uh, that's here today because of your actions in Nairobi is going to join us for the interview, Maile. And I can't wait to get her account. And I know you guys are close. It was really cool to have breakfast with you guys and see how your guys' relationship has developed. And how thankful she is that That you were there that day. It's— it, uh, I don't tear up often, but, but, uh, seeing you guys at breakfast was, was pretty emotional. So, um, everyone gets a gift. So I wanted to give this to you.

Thank you.

You're welcome. You know, I think, um, we talk a lot about spiritual battles, spirituality, faith, Catholicism, all the problems with it, all the good things about it. And, um, not to insert my journey, but you know, I'm going through some stuff, and I know you're going through some stuff with the UK government. And, um, A guy, Dr. Dan Schneider, gave that to me, uh, the first time I've interviewed him, and, and I keep it on my bedside table. Uh, I have up until— this will be the first night without it.

All right.

So, uh, I want to pass that on to you.

All right, thank you.

You're welcome. And, um, and I figured, uh, we could start this off with a prayer.

Yep.

Is that good? Yeah. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

That's, that's my second one in this interview, because when you were just getting set up, Before we went live, I was saying one under my breath, so it's good.

I was going to start it with a different one, but, um, you said that prayer right before you engaged 2 of the attackers, and so I picked that prayer specifically because of that, and I would just— would like to start this with that question. Being a Catholic, there's a lot of prayers out there that we say. You could have said any prayer. You could have made up a prayer. You could have just talked to God. Out of all the prayers out there, why did you choose the Hail Mary to say that before you went into that specific fight that day?

It, it was a quick reaction, so it was like, would I have done— would I do it again?

Yes.

I mean, there's, there's the top 3 would have been Hail Mary, Salve Regina, and then, um, Saint Michael, uh, the Prophet Saint Michael. But, uh, but at the time, it just— that was the first thing that, that sprung to mind.

And—

I thought you would say that.

But that was just the I mean, it's the prayer of prayers, I think. I don't know how many times a day I say it, but I say it a lot, especially when I'm driving. So it's as often, the whole— and even from my journey becoming a Catholic, that I always have this, I've always seemed to have had a very strong connection to Our Blessed Lady. And Father Anthony, who was my mentor, he highlighted that. I think he took a lot of, a lot of joy in it. And, uh, he, um, he said this good story of, I think it was a, uh, an Anglican priest or Anglican vicar said to a Catholic priest, you, oh, you, you all seem to be going on a lot about, um, the Virgin Mary, uh, but we don't talk about her and revere her. And you know what, what's going to happen if you go to When you go to heaven and Jesus is just stood there, what do you think is going to be said? And the Catholic priest said, what I hope he says, he comes up to me and goes, my mother's told me so much about you and I'm so pleased to meet you.

I love that. You know, I think where we kind of left off with the last interview—

I got gifts.

You got gifts?

Yeah, I've got a gift.

I love gifts.

Okay.

So, here's a— America's good, isn't it?

Yes.

America's great. And for all the internet RSOs out there, this gun has been cleaned before the show, so. But I just want to present you this, it's a Steyr ATDC. It's the new, the new automatic pistol. And, um, it's just— so let me— so I'm working with Steyr right now to help promote this gun, uh, and what's important that this comes out is I reached out to them. So I'm not shilling, I'm not saying, oh, this is good. I was lucky enough to get first hands-on because of a, um, a friend in the company, and it impressed me so much I said, look, You know, this— if you don't clean up in America with this, you've got yourself to blame, because it's a bold statement. And I'm— this is how confident I am. I'm going to say it. Millions of people will see me say this. I think it's one of the best handguns ever made. That's why I want to promote it. It's double action, single action. You'll hear more about it. But, um, yeah, it's just— it's, it's just such an amazing firearm. It's been in development for a long, long time. So, if you like the Heckler& Koch USP, if you like Sig Sauer 229, 226, this is going to absolutely amaze you.

It's such a good gun. So, wow. Let me present that to you.

Oh man.

Beautiful.

And it's double action, single action, so you have a decock lever on the side as well.

Thank you.

So enjoy. I hope you like it as much as I do. But like I say, I think it's— it's— this is the base plate gun, so it's— when I say it's one of the best handguns in the world, if not the best, I'm not like, if you say, oh well, this particular spec, this is, this is the V1, this is brand new. They're not even in wide release in America just yet, but it's so, it's only going to get better. And they've just, it's been in development for years and years by Steyr in Austria.

This is beautiful. Thank you, thank you. We're going to break this in out back here on a break. Does that sound good? Yeah, at 100 and 10-degree weather. But thank you, man. Seriously, thank you. So where we left off last interview is we were talking about purpose and what your purpose is. And you, you know, you— I don't want to say confused, but you didn't know what it was. And it sounded like You were having a lot of trouble finding that. And so I'm just curious, a couple years later, here we are. Have you found your purpose?

It's becoming clearer. And life's strange and things change in a heartbeat. But it's What is strange is how you're asking me this on the Sean Ryan Show all those years ago, and I'm not sure. And you could argue that because of that interview, that pushed me towards my purpose. And my purpose, the way I was thinking about best way to frame it, is, is my— is the role I'm going to play, or I'm playing. in the spiritual war. That's, that's where I say I'm, where I'm sitting right now. And from, from your, from your interview and the amount of people who've— I, I, I don't know who's reached out to you. I imagine thousands. But like, so many people have reached out to me to this day. They're reaching to— and apologies, I never reply. I never reply. Uh, that's how it is because so many comes and I haven't got a team to help, but how I've helped people through that last interview and getting through tough times and also finding Jesus. And as we're going to talk about earlier, it's like, I'm not— people who might have known me in the past would have went, well, I can't remember him being this religious.

Those who know me well will go, yeah, he was, he was kind of low-key about it. But, but that's not the point. Is the point of everything ebbs and flows, and sometimes you're up and sometimes you're down. But the amount of people now who are reaching out to me about like finding faith, especially young men in the United Kingdom, because people— I don't know how it is now, but people did not go to church in any, any way. And it's like saying, whoa, you kind of— I'm opening people's eyes. And, you know, if you said this to me, yeah, in some ways you're going to become some sort of evangelist, I'd have just laughed. I'd have laughed you out of the room. But it's kind of being— I'm being pushed out there, pushed that way. And it's— I'm just like, always like play things down. And I'm thinking, I did an interview, it's no big deal. But it is a big deal to a lot of people. And, and maybe these little things that were pulling at people about going to church or finding God, and because of what the system's been doing, and the devil's been working very hard at this since the 1960s, of making people think they're weird, or it's— or people like scoffing at people who are going to church or talk about their faith.

And it's been repressed, but it's always been there. And now people like me— And you are seeing, being a Christian, you are like— it's part of being a warrior. And it's, it's, it's not— you're not Ned Flanders. You're not, you're not the weak person that the movies want to say or whatever. You, you're, you're the badass. And I think that's opening up to a lot of people going, I knew it, and it was just in there waiting to come out. And now they're going to church. One of the most worrying ones though, and was I, I, I meant to— I've sort of got the, like, on Instagram there's the timer, so if I don't acknowledge, and then because so many people message it, it like clears itself. But a young soldier in the British Army, and I really wanted to reply, and then when I got around to it, I couldn't. Um, he said to me, when I watched the Sean Ryan, uh, show, and I just want to thank you for me, for leading me to God. There's a small group of us in our unit. He was in a, um, British infantry battalion.

There's a small group of us in our unit who, who formed like a Christian group, but we have to go to church way outside of the, uh, garrison because if the chain of command find out, we'll be persecuted as— or we'll be named as white supremacists.

We, we were chatting about this at lunch the other day.

And so now we've got— now we've got this system. This is going on in the UK where guys want to go to church, but they're scared if they go, they'll be labeled as white supremacists. And it's like, so it's this Christians worshiping in secret again. And it's, it's, it's, it's crazy to think this is what's happening.

Was that like that at all when you were there?

Uh, no, because like, I didn't know anyone who, who went to church. From when I started going to church in 1999. And then I was the only— I was always the youngest person there. There was no one used to, used to go. Then I— my faith didn't fall, but the whole religious thing fell away, and I wasn't going to church. I was still praying, but still just doing my own thing, so to speak. And then became a Catholic, but again, going to, going to Mass. It wasn't— there wasn't people there. I didn't know any of my peers, any of my friends back up from my hometown. No one went to church. It's like a thing. Then you move to Texas and then Tennessee, people don't ask you if you go to church, they go ask you where you go to church. And so it's the first question. And it's interesting how they've morphed that, and probably from the 1960s where it used to be everyone going. Now, now if you go to church, you're considered weird. Oh, he's weird, he goes to church. So that circles back to what I was saying before, is there's a number of people out there who probably want to go to church, who want to express their faith, but are just scared because of what people say.

And maybe even worse, the impact it might have on their jobs or their profession.

How do you think they should be acting? Do you think they should be going in secret?

No.

In secrecy?

I think strength in numbers. start doing it. The trouble is, especially with the military, if one person of note does it, then it's going to be— then, then the rest will follow. But it's like, if you're like young in a unit, if you've got— especially if you're eyeing up promotion and things like that, that's a factor where people are going to go, yeah, it's too much to, to risk. And it's easy for me to go, no, just do it. But I'm I get it, I get it. So it's easier said than done to say, you know, wear your faith on your— wear it out loud and— or say it out loud and tell everyone, but you may or may not get career failed for it. Or, um, so there's, there's that element, and I, and I get it. But I think if people start doing it, more, more will do it, and then it'll become back to— and I— But remember, The system, especially in places like Australia and the UK, they're not your friends. They don't want you to be Christians. They don't want any Christian values. They will, they will hurt you if they can.

And we're seeing it now. We're seeing it now. So yeah.

I know they're coming after you hard. But the book release releasing on September 15th, correct? Which I I think is when we're airing this.

I think it's tomorrow. But I think so. So I think it should be the 14th this end of the year.

But, and they've been after you for years.

Yeah.

I mean, it's—

For doing what you did.

Yeah.

Leading over 700 people to safety from one of the worst terrorist organizations in the world, if not the worst. What is that?

Islamic terrorist organizations, I should add. But, um, which I think I now broke the law in UK again, because I think under the new blasphemy law, if you say— I might be wrong, so apologies for all the— again, all these barrack room lawyers who are watching this saying I'm wrong. This is how I interpret it. If you said on the 15th and of January 2019, Islamic terrorists raided the Dusit D2 Hotel, you are breaking the law. Because what you should say is, on the, uh, 15th of January 2019, terrorists stormed the Dusit D2 Hotel. You can't say what— it only works on that religion as well. It doesn't matter any other religion, they, they don't matter. But by calling it Islamic terrorism is kind of not, not, not right.

That's interesting. When did that happen?

Uh, very recently.

Football is back, and that means the weekends finally feel right again. Whether you're following the action at home, keeping up on the road, or checking in throughout the day, DraftKings gives you one place to stay connected to what's happening across sports. The wait is over. Football is here, and so is DraftKings. DraftKings is now live in all 50 states. One app, every sport, and it's nationwide. New DraftKings customers, you can sign up with code SRS, spend $5 to get $200 in rewards within 21 days. Includes all markets. That's code SRS in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER, 1-800-MY-RESET. Connecticut, call 888-789-7777. Visit ccpg.org. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino in Kansas, bet tax pass-through may apply in Illinois. 21+, void in Canada. Bet with DraftKings Sportsbook to get bonus bets that expire in 7 days or trade with DraftKings Use predictions to get predictions dollars that expire in 1 year. Event contract trading involves risk of loss. Predictions offer void in New York. Non-withdrawable. Rewards issued is $50 click-to-claims every 7 days for 21 days. Terms at dkng.co/offer. Limited time offer. Nationwide based on sportsbook predictions and free-to-play sports contest availability.

Varies by state. I know we're going to get into, you know, more why they're coming after you, why, why you think they're coming after you, because it doesn't seem like there's a logical explanation anywhere.

There is no logical— well, there is logical, actually, when we, when we dissect it later on. It makes sense. And— or not, it doesn't make sense.

Do you want to talk to— do you want to talk about Not the synchronicity that happened. Maybe not a synchronicity, the, the unexplainable. Let's talk about some of the synchronicities, synchronicities that you've, you've, you've had in your life leading up to that day on the side of the road. Do you have any ones that stick out in particular to you?

Um, man, um, uh, well, there, there is one. I've got the evidence right here, and it's kind of strange. I'll show you. So, so we got this cross. So we, uh, I had this epiphany, or was— I was on after I had a bad road accident and I was in recovery and I was kind of on this self-destruct, um, journey— drinking, fighting, just— and I wasn't in any shipshape, uh, any like fit state, but it was just like, that's it. I always remember it was a Tuesday night, went out drinking with some friends, got, got into like a— not like a scuffle at a bar, it was bad.

It was—

and everyone was just— it was all good at the end. It was back in the day when you know, fine, was no big deal. And then went back to my room and then fell asleep. Woke up just after 3:00 AM, and it was kind of a message in my head, go and find the brigade padre. You need to come and see me. You need to, you need to find me. So the next day I get up, burning in my mind, I go to 5 Airborne Brigade headquarters. Find the Padre's office as a Lieutenant Colonel in there, knock on his door, and I said, oh, Padre, this is going to sound weird, but like something kind of told me to come and see you today. And he smiled, he went, that's not weird, and it happens a lot more than you think. So then he, uh, he said, well, come to, come to St. Andrew's Church, which is Church of Scotland in Aulashott, and come, come to, come to, come to the service. And I met him, was talking, become very good friends, and sadly lost contact after I left Aulashott. in southern England. So on the last, the last, the day I'm leaving Aldershot, it was a Sunday, and he said, oh, it's his last day, would you mind reading, reading in church?

I said, I've done it before, so, so yes, yes, uh, Padre, yeah, absolutely. So do the reading. It's on Remembrance Day, which is Memorial Day in America, and at the end of the service we're having a presented me with this, this cross. And, uh, on one side it's got Remembrance Day, 14th of November '99, 1999. And on the other side it says, may God always guide you. So that's out there. So that sits on a shelf in my, in my room. The feature happens, Kenya happens, uh, do with that. And then, um, November 2019, I'm in Brooklyn, uh, in New York, and I get a phone call. It's commanding officer, and he, and he says, hey, just so you know, you've been awarded the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross for your actions in Kenya. All right, Colonel, thanks a lot. Bye. That's kind of that. I then go back to Kenya, wrap up in Kenya, and then go back home. And I'm in Hereford and I'm looking, and, and the cross is there, and I look at it and something— this is the other weird thing— something makes me look at the date. So then look at the date, so I turn it around, 14th of November.

Look at my phone and I'm like, so on the 20 years to the day That's when I was awarded the, the Gallantry Cross for my actions in, in Kenya.

So, wow.

So what's also strange is that what something made me look at the date. Some said like, look at, look at the date, look at the date. And, uh, so that's a kind of— that's— is it coincidence? I don't know. I don't think so. And may, may God always guide you.

And he did on that day too.

Yeah.

What were you doing in Kenya?

I was a liaison officer to the Kenyan military. So part— the main, the main role of it, there's lots of little, uh, tasks, but the main role of it in essence was to train Kenyan military units out there.

Is it one man? I mean, you were the only—

So there's operator— typically there's one operator And there's support elements, but there's one SAS guy.

So— How long were you down there?

It was supposed to be a 2-year job, but I arrived in December 2018. So when the terrorist attack happened, it happened exactly a month after I'd been there. So I hadn't been there long. And then with Christmas in between, I hadn't get a real feel of things because, um, yeah, basically from the— I got there on the 18th of December, then everyone stood down for Christmas and New Year. So I hadn't really, uh, got the feel for anything and meet many people or even know my way around and know how things work.

Do you want to talk about Before the incident, but the day of. We covered a little bit of this the last time I interviewed you, but I'd like to, I'd like to get a refresher because what happened right before is, uh, yeah, being guided by God.

Yeah. So the, that, that morning I got up at 0430. Uh, and the reason why I got up that early is I wanted to do some, some shooting and check in on some training. Because the traffic in Nairobi is super bad, I got up that early to drive into the countryside to a training camp, and then I just do my own, my, my own shooting, my own drills and things, and then pop in to see the, the guys who I was training or overseeing the training and introduce myself because I never met them. From then on, I'm driving back to my home. Um, I pull out onto— it's rough going— and pull out on what we call the main, but it's really a dirt track. And as I pull onto this dirt track, I see a guy on the road. And what's unusual about him is he's dressed in a, um, like a beige safari, like a business suit, highly polished shoes. When you ever see anyone on this main, they're either Maasai tribesmen or maybe workers working on the, the Chinese rail track that was being built across the country. Um, so it's like, wow.

But not only is it like he looks out of place, but I break all procedures and reel down the window and say, hey buddy, do you want a lift? something compelled me to ask him if he wanted a lift, completely breaking— I don't pick up hitchhikers. He wasn't hitchhiking, but I don't pick up strangers, especially when I'm in another country on a military presence. But something compelled me, gets in the car, and then—

With only 1 month on the ground, you're not even that familiar.

It could have been really embarrassing. It could have, like, something could have, like— Been more than embarrassing. Yeah, um, but it would get— would it get— but something compelled me just to, like, Ask him if he wants a lift. Gets in the truck, he starts talking and stuff, and then he goes through some— he goes, what's your name? Some Chris. He said, oh, I'm Simon. And he said, how old are you? 43 at the time. I'm 43. He goes, I'm 43. When were you born? I'm like, September. Because I was born in September. What day were you born? It's like 15th. It's like, I don't know what day I was born in September, but this is a good sign. That means in September 1975, Simon and Chris were born. And then he, like, chuckles. Drive along a bit, he says some other things, and then he reaches into his pocket and pulls out a dagger. Again, my spider sense doesn't flash red. I'm cool with it, and I just smile and go, you're not going to try and kill me with that, are you? This blade— so, we'll clear some things up here. So it was a curved blade with a double point.

Now, I, I now learned it's called a kris, the knife, and it's, and, um, well known now because of the film Dune, because that's kind of what they've got, the, uh, um, uh, the good guys and that. Um, and, and it's double point, and my belief is that the double point was maybe because the tip was broken and it's just been filed into or adjusted to a double point. Who knows? But it was like a— but it's very similar to St. Michael's. When you see the imagery of St. Michael, that's what it looks like. So, it's kind of the blade's about so long.

This is a local guy?

Yes. So, he's like a round black guy. And then he pronounces, Chris, Chris, Misa Chris.

So, um, is he sitting behind you?

No, next to me.

Next to you.

And, um, so we're driving and, and, and I said, oh, you're not going to try and kill me with that? And he goes, no, no, I, I carry this in case I come across any, any demons or evil spirits along this road. And then he chuckles to himself and puts it away. So then I turn to him and say, hey, judging by how you're dressed, I take it you're going into the city. And he's like, no, no, please drop me off at the, the first spot you come to outside of this village. Remember, this is an African village, so it's like— I'm like, this one coming up? He's like, yeah, yeah. So as I stop, he, um, he opens the door, and then when his foot hits the ground, everything changes. And in the, in the, um, his voice, it's like a bit like if I upset you, if I said something insulting to you, you'd like, like, your face turns serious. His face, face turns serious, and he's like, Chris. And his voice, although quiet, filled everywhere, felt like it was coming from every direction. Said, Chris, may God bless you many times this day.

And then snaps out of it. Oh, thank you, thank you, Mr. Chris, thank you, thank you. And then gets out of the car, and then I drive off. Um, as I get about 100 yards or so down the road, I look in the mirror, I can't see him. I don't know if he's run left or right or whatever, but, but at the time I was like, oh, that's a bit like— if I could feel it 30 hours later after the most remarkable day of my life, before I'd even— as I was walking out of the compound or the complex, I could hear that, may God bless you, many times this day. ringing in my ears.

Did you think anything of it?

Not then. I just thought, oh, oh, oh, okay.

But when you talk about his voice filling the entire car—

Yeah, it was just like, you know, did I— you know when you think, do I— did I imagine that? Did I just— did that just happen? And it was just like every— and then, but, but it straight after that, I not— I'm walking out of the complex and I That's what I'm thinking of. Can you hear it? I'm like, man, as if to say, remember this, look at the date. That, that same thing. You're never going to be here. You're never going to visit this place again. Look at the date. May God bless you. There's like these pokes and prods. And, you know, one wonders throughout your life of how many times you meet, you get a message.

Mm-hmm.

In some way, shape, or form. and you, you, you just don't— you might pick up on one or two. Maybe they're happening to us every day, every other day, all the time, but we just, we just don't see it. Well, you think they are? Yeah, I think, I think we are. Maybe, maybe, maybe one time you'll get, you'll get shown all of these things of, you know, we— I tried to tell you, whatever the message is, you, you should have known. And some of it is you go, do you know, when you think You know, your gut feeling, and a lot of people dismiss it. Sometimes they don't, but most of the time you do. And it's like, how many times has even a stranger, someone, someone close to you even, says something to you and you just didn't, you just didn't get it, you didn't pick it up? But all the way through your life, you're being guided, or you're getting messages, or you're getting even just, even just like kind of like an emotional slap on the back.

Mm-hmm.

You're doing the right thing.

And this was like a complete attitude change in this guy. Like, like out of— like from what you know of him, out of character, out of tone.

Yeah.

I mean, just like, like something came over him.

Yeah.

Hey, Chris, may God bless you many times this day.

Yeah.

And then back to like—

It wasn't like how he said it. It was like— I can't imitate it. But it's like me talking to you, having a good time. And we were just talking like this. This is our volume level. All's good. And I was like, Sean. He's like, Sean, may God bless you many times this day. Anyway, mate, I've got to go. Catch you later on, all right? Sort of like, that's kind of the level. He'd be like, as if he was like, like, pay attention to this. This will— and, and, and, and in true, in classic style, it's like, yeah, yeah, I heard it. Okay, that was a bit weird. Didn't dwell on it.

A breaking pattern.

But then later on, it's, it's so profound that later on it's Your mind is saying you have to remember this.

Jeez. I mean, looking back, do you— would you— would you obviously think about it a lot?

Yeah, I, I, I— this is my thing. Um, I think he was— I think he's a real human being, and I— but I think he was given— he was given a message from God. And it's not something I'm willing to share on the interview, but I, I know about— I kind of experienced this before. Sorry, I was experiencing after where he's probably thinking, why? Where did that come from? He might have gone, I remember saying it, I said it, but where did that come from?

Mm-hmm.

Okay. And it's like, so I, I think, I think he was delivering a message from an angel. someone, God, again, it's all open to everyone. Someone can look at this and go, oh, that's a bit, that's a bit like pretentious thinking it was from God and whatever. But it's like a message from God.

Or like, do you, do you feel like you are more open to receiving those kinds of things now than you were?

I think so.

Do you see them more often?

It's a bit like conspiracy theories. Once you— once you see, you can't unsee. And you start seeing more and more patterns or conspiracy theories or conspiracies really nowadays, where you— once you open your eyes and you see it, you see more and more of it. And it starts— well, man, it's everywhere. It's very— I think it's similar with all, all sorts of things.

What happened after you dropped him off? Where did you go?

I went and got my haircut. And then, so I went to a barbershop, got my haircut, and then I went for lunch. I had Moroccan beef and then, um, and a dawa, which is the Kenyan cocktail.

Uh, really?

I, I'm still, I still find it hard to believe that they don't— you can't get dawas. I've never seen one in London or in anywhere in America, and it I think, again, people would clean up in the drinking world with these. Dowers is such a delicious cocktail and easy to make, but someone's probably listening. I don't know. Any people who own bars and things, there you go. You're welcome. And had a Dower, which is vodka, lime juice, and honey. Mix, and you have a dawa stick and you mix it up and it's very refreshing in hot weather. But anyway, so I had a drink and then I went home, drove home, and that was it for the day. I was just going to try and, because I was still finding my feet, still moving in, maybe do some slight bits of work on the computer and then buy some supplies and things for the house. Just a normal Tuesday afternoon.

You living by yourself?

Mhm.

Yeah.

And right at that moment, from when— from, you could say, from when he says, may God bless you, many times this day, the clock was ticking. 5 al-Shabaab terrorists were now set, or getting set, to launch their attack on the Dusit D2 hotel complex in Nairobi. And the clock was ticking.

What time did that happen?

Um, well, the attack, um, uh, the suicide detonation was at, uh, 3:17 PM.

3:17 PM.

Yeah. How much time had passed? And I, again, I shouldn't do this, but, you know, I overthink things, what people think. Anyone who's watching going, oh, well, I saw the videos and the times are different on the video footage, Um, for your information, all of the security cameras in the Dussit area, all the times are out of sync. So don't— so I'm telling you what time happened, 17 minutes past 3. Uh, do you want to know another strange, um, coincidence?

What room was Maile in?

Oh, she was in 3 16. But that's not the coincidence. What is it? So 10 years before, do you remember the landing on the Hudson? So when the aircraft taking out of New York had the bird strike, and then Sully, the pilot, did some amazing flying and landed on the Hudson. Um, so that's the story. This is going all over the place, but after Kenya happens, I'm back home just, just recently. So it's happened, um, this is the weekend after because I'm getting my hearing things checked. So we'll be in the, like, the Monday or Tuesday now. I decide to watch the, um, the movie directed by Clint Eastwood, uh, with Tom Hanks. It's about, it's about that incident. And I'm watching it, and there's a bit in the movie where he's done the landing and he's— everyone's talking to him and saying, you've done a great job. And part of me was like, man, this is so like, it's so familiar to me. It's like, it was like me back on camp, the, the, the, what people are saying to him, you're the man for the job, blah blah blah, you did a great job.

And I was like, so I took an interest in the incident. And I look at it and I'm like, damn, it happened on the 15th of January, um, 2009, 10 years to the day. So I'll buy the book about the incident, get it the next, the next day from Amazon and read it. It's a really good, uh, book, uh, by, by the pilot. And at the end of the book, there's the, the annex and it's the flight recording log. And I'm looking through it, and that's when I'm like— and I think it's mentioned, I can't exactly remember, it might be mentioned in the book, but on the slot— I confirmed it with the flight log. Bird strike, 3:17 PM. So exactly this— I know we're on the sides of the world, but at 3:17 PM on the 15th of January, the aircraft that landed on the Hudson had the bird strike. And 3:17 on the 15th of January, 10 years later, was the suicide detonation in, um, in Kenya.

Jeez.

And it's— what's strange about, um, uh, that the pilot Sully, his story is that everything in his life was taking him to that moment. The, the, the, the experience he gained in the Air Force and other things. Whereas any other pilot would have maybe catastrophically tried to land at a different airport or done something else. But through everything in his life had taken him to that moment, and he was like, nope, gotta land on them, gotta land on the river. And it's a— so it's a strange sort of coincidence, or you could say.

Do you think everything in your life prepared you for that moment?

Yeah. And, and, and I'm very like grateful for this is that because most people live their whole life not to get this opportunity to look back and go, this is why everything happened. Everything that I should be angry about, I'm kind of thankful for in some things even. And it, and it's like because that shaped me. I was training for this day in Kenya from the moment I was born. My training started day one. That's when it all started, and everything shaped me and pushed me. Bad things, good things, whatever, everything to that point. And, and even just from a very shallow point of view and things, when career things didn't go you well, you go, oh, I should have got that job, or I should have done that. That's when you're like, well, if I hadn't, I wouldn't have been— I wouldn't have been in Kenya. Let alone all the personal things where it's like abuse or shitty relationships or anything. It's like that's shaping me into the person I need to be at that moment.

Mm-hmm.

And it's the same for everyone. And it's the same for people think, oh, well, why is this happening to me? Or what's— I know it sounds patronizing sometimes when you think, oh, what? And it's saying it's, it's, it's part of the— it's, it's the system. And even to the point when go— if someone's there going, I haven't done anything in my life or whatever, you don't know. And hope— hopefully one day you, you get to see that. Because even remember that, like, someone does an amazing thing, but it wasn't just you. It's like everything that, everything that your, your parents did, their parents, their grandparents, all of that leads up to that point. And then, and, and it moves on. And everything you do for the future generations, from what you have, whether it be whether it be children that you have or some— something you just say to one person, that, that changes the whole, the whole world. So it's something to think about of when people were looking at the— thinking about their value and like, oh, I'm a nobody. I hate when— I really hate it when someone says, I'm a nobody.

Yeah, me too.

It's like, no, nobody's a nobody. Yeah.

You know, I know, uh, I want to talk about this at the end, but I don't want to lose the thought. You know, when we were talking at the beginning and last, you know, it sounds like you've found your purpose, but last time you were really struggling with it. And so, I mean, what you did on that day, you know, in Nairobi, and you just said it yourself, you think everything in life led up to that point and shaped you into who you needed to be that day.

Yeah.

After that happened, did you feel a— I mean, it's such a significant thing what happened that day and what you did and how many people are alive because of you. And so when you think that everything that you've been through in life, military service, childhood abuse, All of it, you know what I mean? Was to essentially rescue over 700 people in a 22-hour period. What left is there in life? Did you have that thought? Did you have like, I've completed my life's purpose? What else is there?

Well, that's on the last interview I said, That was one of the things I was struggling with. It was maybe, maybe I'm a tool that was made for that job. Now you use that specialized tool, it's useless and should be discarded. That was like my mindset that day when I was talking to you. It's like, maybe that's it, I'm now useless. They made me into this tool that is useless for everything else other than that one thing. And now what I've come to realize was that That day in Kenya is an— is another mechanism. It's— that's just part of the plan.

That—

because without that day in Kenya, now I can't go on to, to do all of the— all the other things I'm doing now. So that was the thing I needed to do to, to help with whatever it is I do in the future, whether it be leading people to God, supporting President Trump, whatever, whatever the things could be in the future. That's without Kenya, there's no— that's the— it was a gateway moment of moving on to the next things.

That's kind of what I think. I mean, it— I hate to say it this way. I don't, but I do. But, you know, it shaped you into a A role model. You did something that nobody experiences ever. Generations. I mean, there's nobody that experiences that. And then I still remember the day that I always wondered who it was, you know what I mean? And I remember— I don't remember exactly what it said, but I remember the post that, uh, that came. I believe it was an Instagram account, and, and you had kind of said like, I never wanted my identity to get out, but here I am.

Yeah.

You know, something along those lines. And, and with that comes a tremendous amount of influence. And you had just mentioned, you know, after our last interview, the thousands of messages that you received that you couldn't even keep up. And And, you know, you didn't need to keep up. I mean, it all pointed to one thing. And it sounds like the majority of them listened, and they wouldn't have if it wasn't for you. You know, and so you led thousands, and you'll never even be able to count them all, you know, people to Christ, to a better way of living. to really the only thing that's important. And you continue to do that. And we just talked about also at the beginning that people are scared to— they hide it, you know. And so you're becoming a role model for them to not hide it, and that, uh, you just have to face the repercussion— the repercussions.

Yeah.

If there are any. And a lot of times You know, they don't see them. Well, they don't happen. Yeah, but it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. And so I just wanted to, um, say that. But let's, um, let's take a break, and when we come back, we'll, we'll get into 317.

Okay.

When we've hired for this show, we've had people apply by sending us short-form content that they made of our own show episodes. Clips they cut themselves showing us exactly what they'd do with that job. And I'll tell you, that gets my attention. When you're hiring, it's always helpful to know who really wants the job. But you don't need unusual stunts. You just need ZipRecruiter. On ZipRecruiter, qualified candidates can add a personal note to tell you why they're interested in your job, so you see the most motivated people right away. And right now, you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/SRS. And ZipRecruiter has a new feature that shows you the most interested, qualified candidates first, so you meet the right people Faster. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number 1 rated hiring site based on G2. ZipRecruiter makes it easy for amazing candidates to get your attention. 4 out of 5 employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/SRS. That's ziprecruiter.com/SRS. Meet your match. Pick up your phone. Look at it. Count the number of companies you've never heard of that know where you slept last night.

Nobody can, and that's the point. Apps you're not even using are calling out to servers all day and all night, reporting where you go, what you look at, and what you buy. what you buy. Glacier Secure DNS cuts those calls off before they connect. Not after, before. It's the same grade of protection people with clearances carry, built by the guys who used to build it for them. And you don't manage it. Open the app once, hit the button, close it. Glacier. Download it today on the App Store. And remember, privacy isn't paranoia. Well, that was an interesting break. Talk about synchronicities, huh?

Yeah.

So we're over here talking about spiritual battles. Things are going to get in the way from keeping you to do shit.

Yeah.

We walk out of here, you check your email, and the UK files an injunction and wants to serve you here in the US. Yeah. On the break.

Yeah.

But look, man, I, um, you know, I kind of set it out there, but, um, you're good.

Yeah.

Because I've been through a lot of shit on this podcast, and the attorney, Tim Parlatori, one of my best friends and my attorney, There is nobody better for this shit, and that dude will fuck these people up. He's had my back more times than I can count on this show. Kandsoff tried to mess with us, told us all this shit was classified, shit that was— that they put in Ballistic Magazine with Dallas Alexander. He's like, he, he was on the sniper team that got the world's longest sniper shot, the world record. It's like— 2.1 miles. He fucked them up. Like, fucked them up. Went all over the press, and then they ran away like cowards. A congressman out of Texas tried to sue me. Dan Crenshaw destroyed their people. Cana Cook tried to sue me. Came, came after me. They sent me a cease and desist or gave me a threat, or I'd got to do a public apology. He fucking destroyed them. So, you know, the fact that— that— and you know what's ironic is you get the email right before we're supposed to— right before we walk in the door here to cover the actual incident, the thing, the main thing that we're here for.

Yeah.

To get your story out and talk about what's happening to you. And you happen to get the email not before we start the show, Before we start that specific segment.

Yeah.

And we're in here talking about synchronicities.

Yeah.

Isn't that crazy?

Yeah. I mean, it stings. I knew, I knew this would come, but it still stings. I mean, the— as people who've been involved with legal before, the— how they word the letters is very like a bullying tactic and such. So it still hurts. It makes it real. But, but I knew this, and this is too big to This is— this, this whole story and what they're trying to stop and everything is— I should add, it doesn't break the Official Secrets Act. It's just they just don't want me to tell the story. We'll get into why later on. Um, but it's, it's a story that most of the world saw. It was on all the newspapers.

It—

like I say, this does not break the Official Secrets Act, and they just— they're just desperate for me not to tell the story.

Why?

Why? It's becoming bigger than the— it's becoming bigger than the incident itself is the reasons why. Why would you want to try and stop this?

Well, I just want to let you know that, like I said, you are in— this is what you're supposed to be doing. And to me, what just happened out there proved it. The timing of it proves it. And like, I know what it's like, man. Every time I see a FedEx truck around here, I'm like, oh shit, here comes another one. But, uh, but like I said, um, there is nobody better for you than Tim Parlatori. That man is a force to be reckoned with. So I, I just— I hope that puts you at ease a little bit. And, um, like, that dude is not gonna let anybody fuck with you. I guarantee it. So anyways, I'm sorry that happened, man.

Yeah, dude.

But it is— we're doing what we're supposed to be doing, and that, that email proves it, that it came in right then.

Yeah.

And that you checked it right then, right before we walk in the door after the break. So, man, Wild. Wild. I can't believe that. I can't believe I'm saying I can't believe, but you know what I mean? It's just, it's just, yeah, synchronicities. But well, Christian, we're getting ready to get into the incident.

Yeah.

And I know this is going to be heavy, and, um, but I got you another present. before it gets heavy.

All right, let me grab it, man.

Have you seen one of these?

Yes, I have.

Yeah, well, you know, I, I haven't had hands-on with one, but I, I— Well, it's the, uh, Sig MCX Spear 6.8. version, and, uh, it's gonna come with the optic. And, uh, you know, you're talking about all the tinnitus and the hearing loss.

Yeah.

From the grenades. And, uh, so Silencer Shop sent a suppressor to put on there too.

All right.

And, uh, you know, just like you're saying you weren't a shill, I've been carrying SIG for 8 years.

Yeah.

And, uh, and I carried it when in the SEAL Teams too. And, um, they wound up luckily becoming a partner of mine, and, uh, we've done some amazing stuff together. We, uh, we actually did an episode on Roblox, which is a bunch of horrific stuff has happened to kids on there. And one of the things they did was, um, they recreated all the active shooter events that have happened here in the US, probably more. Maybe Nairobi's even on there. But, uh, but, um, what they did is they— you— so you reenacted, and they even put the kids' names up top as you murder them on the game. And they were using SIG weapons in the game— SIG rifles, SIG pistols. And, um, so I told my friend Jason over at SIG about it.

Yeah.

got their legal involved and told Roblox, get their shit off that platform immediately. Um, they've also donated all the— there's a county right next to where we live, and they donated brand new rifles to the entire SWAT team, and suppressors, and optics, and flashlights. So it's a good company, you know what I mean? It's a good company. They make great stuff. I've got buddies over at Silencer Shop too. They, um, they just won I'm— I don't know the court case or anything, but they want to go up against the federal government.

Yeah.

And, uh, and they won. So now you don't— you don't have to do the typical paperwork for suppressors. And, uh, and they— I thought there's not a chance in hell they're gonna win that.

Yeah.

And they won it. And, uh, we called them up and I was like, isn't this kind of, uh, counter productive with, with what you guys do as a company? Like, aren't you kind of— you're kind of screwing yourselves here. And they're like, hey, but like, yeah, we are. You're right. But, um, that's how much we believe in, in this fight. And if it destroys our company, then it destroys our company. And, um, so they're, they're, they're going to fight the federal government knowing it might significantly, significantly damage their business. So anyways, this is the, uh, MCX 6.8 Spear with a Sig suppressor from Silencer Shop.

Yeah, it's got like all the— it's, I mean, great gun and everything is good with it. I like the, like, uh, True North Concepts. Grip, they're a good— and Unity on the, on the light. And then, yeah. Well, thanks, man. Can't wait to run this out. We'll run this out in a little bit, I suppose.

Yeah, well, maybe next break we'll, uh, run out and shoot some stuff. I'll test the Steyr, you can test that.

And go, freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom! No king but Jesus.

Oh, that's right, man.

Um, no, thank you. You're welcome.

And you got something that you wore that day on, right?

Yes.

Um, well, you brought a couple things.

Well, this is the— oh yeah, I misunderstood your question. So yeah, we'll get— which you will do first. Do we do this first since I've got it out?

Yeah, I was—

I went, I, uh, I went rogue. So this is, uh, this was in on the rear pouch of my, uh, belt system, which had the black bead flag on. There was my med kit and also this Bible.

Really?

And as I said earlier, when the— I went to the Padre, um, after one of our first meetings, he gave me this camouflage, uh, New Testament. And he said, oh, this is an American issue one at the time.

Who gave that to you?

The Padre who I who I, when I first knocked on his door in 1999, and he gave me this. And then from that moment on, I carried this in my equipment, in my belt kit for the rest of my career. And so it's done over 1,000 high-risk missions.

Wow.

Across the world. And it's got a, yeah, so it's been through. And that was the—

That's it.

Yeah.

I still got the one you gave me the first time you were on the show right here.

Armor upgrade. And then, yeah, and then the other thing is this watch, Garmin watch. So this is the watch and strap that I wore on that day, and I thought it's kind of, we'll wear it for this. I haven't really worn it, so I turned it on the other day to charge up. It's the first time since 19— sorry, since 2019, I think I wore it. And then because, um, something to consider and how things evolve and develop, um, I was wearing this. I mean, they're great watches and handy, and I was wearing it, but when I went into the incident, as things moved on and into the nighttime, I was looking at my watch. And everyone knows how it ends now, but at the time I didn't know if this was going to go on for days and days and days. The battery lives on these are phenomenal, but I didn't go in with it fully charged. So part of my sort of thinking was, man, I hope this watch doesn't run out of power in 2 or 3 days' time, because, or however long it's going to go on for. So you never know how long it's going to be.

So from that moment on, even when I was still in involved with the incident, when I came out, it was like, yeah, I was back onto my old setting. Everything comes around in a circle of wearing— I'm wearing an automatic watch for everything I do after this point, um, because, well, I mean, people don't understand how valuable a watch and time is. So I am a big, big fan of automatic watches from— for combat, for everything, because when you run out that door who knows when you're going to be— the next time you're going to be— how long you're going to be away for, especially if it's an end-of-world scenario, you know.

So why did you pick that watch?

Oh, uh, this is the watch I was wearing all the time anyway. It's handy, it's got the compass, it's got everything. Lots of military guys use these, uh, and, and, but it's strange how, you know, how thinking changes, tactics change, mentality changes. And then it's like, man, I need to go back to how it was in the '90s where, hey, use an automatic watch.

Do you have— does that have a GPS?

Yes. Yeah.

Is the coordinates and all that stuff still loaded on there?

I didn't, I didn't, I didn't use it to its full potential either. It would have been good to monitor your heart rate and things like that all the way through. But it's— but if you start, the more you use it, it's kind of obvious, but the more you use it, the more that it degrades the battery life. So, but yeah, I mean, I mean, battery lives on the, on these watches are really good, but like I say, you don't know how long it's going to be. Is it going to be 2 hours, 2 days? In some, you know how the world works now, 2 months before you get to charge it or get to the resupply or whatever again. But it, but it was a legitimate um, thought of mine is I don't know if this watch is going to last the duration. Remember, I didn't know when it was going to end, so in my mind this could go on for days and days.

Man, that's cool that you have those 2 things, especially the Bible, man.

That's, um, I had a rosary in my pocket as well. I wear my rosary these days, but in, um, but I had a rosary all the way through that as well, but I don't have that rosary anymore. So, but every— we need all the help you can get these days. So that's right, that's right.

We just found that out. But yeah, you know, even, even the fact that, you know, it's a Friday mid-afternoon after lunchtime going into a long weekend, and just the fact that he answered the first phone call, you know what I mean, the first time we called, I mean, it's just You're good, man. You're good. So let's go into it. 3:17 PM.

Yeah, so let's, uh, let's just go— so at 3:17 PM, there's a suicide detonation. So prior to that, minutes prior, the, the terrorists, the Islamic terrorists, set themselves up. So, on the road leading in, the spur road leading to the hotel, stationary at the start of the road, there were 4 terrorists armed with automatic AK-47-style rifles, hand grenades, and hand grenades. They were in position. Inside the complex was another terrorist in a smart business suit with a suicide vest underneath his— Oh, my God. underneath, uh, under the suit. He then moved to position, which was outside the Secret Garden Cafe, which was a popular meeting place for diplomats, businessmen, um, uh, high-powered people, if you like, or people of influence. They'd meet in this open-air cafe, and he positioned himself just outside it. Uh, seconds before it all started, he was on the phone And he was— said— he said, are you ready? Are you set? And then, um, and then at 3:17, he detonated. The suicide detonation happened, which was the— which was the go signal to initiate the attack. So the suicide detonation happens, kills everyone who's in the cafe instantly, and the, um, and the car, the Toyota starts motoring it towards the gatehouse with the terrorists firing their automatic weapons out of the— out of— through the windows at anyone fleeing.

The detonation at the Secret Garden Café, that killed an American, um, a British guy, an Australian, and 2 Kenyans. And sadly, the American who lost his life that day was at the Twin Towers on 9/11. and helped pull survivors from the, from the rubble on that day, only to be killed by Islamic terrorists years later. Um, and all the people in that cafe were there to make a difference, to support Somalia, to support, um, people in need. They were all there on a humanitarian sort of nature, and they were all cowardly killed in this cowardly act of terrorism. Uh, so the 4 guys in the, in the Toyota, um, coming down the road shooting at people, um, it lost control of the— they lost control of the car somehow and went into a ditch. They then got out of the, um, car and then moved at speed into the complex, again firing at anyone fleeing and then throwing hand grenades once they got into the complex. They walked straight past the security office by the main entrance, walked straight past that, and then split into 2 2-man teams splitting off at an angle. And their MO, as is the way of, um, al-Shabaab, was just to kill and maim— or kill— or sorry, let's not say kill— murder as many people as possible whenever they came across.

And the— one of the teams, as they went past the first entrance, there was a guy crouched down in there, and they just went up and executed him immediately. Um, and so they split up into the, into the, um, complex. At about that time, I just, I just got out the shower, and I lived, uh, around about 3 miles-ish from the, um, from this hotel. And I just put my jeans on and got a phone call from a friend. So again, think about, like, Something— I wasn't going to answer the call. I was like, I'll, I'll get dressed and then I'll call him back. But something really pulled at me and said, answer the phone. So I answered the phone and he was like, Chris— oh sorry, the first thing he said was, Jen. So Jen in, in Royal Marines and Royal Navy speak is like, if you say Jen, it means it's, it's not a lie. So you could say, oh, there's If you say, Jen, an alien spaceship landed outside, that means, hey, I'm telling the truth. It also means pay attention, 'cause the way he said it was like, Jen! And then he went, Chris, there's a complex attack happening.

You need to get— I haven't got— I'm laying low. I haven't got a weapon. I'm laying low. You need to get down here with your boys right now. And I was like, okay, I'm on my way. And, um—

What happened?

He was an ex-Marine who'd got the nation's highest award for gallantry a few years earlier in Kenya. He was retired. But yeah, he called me. So, he said the word complex attack, which means a multidimensional attack using one or more weapon systems, typically explosive device and then gunfire. So I was like, okay. And I just said, yeah, I'm on my way. And I said it like that, but my heart kind of feels like it feels like now after getting a legal notice. It's like it's pumping, pumping away. And, uh, and I'm like, okay, let's go. So I changed. I was going to put a t-shirt on, but now I'll put a gray, um, like outdoor shirt, put my approach shoes on. and grabbed my gear. My gear was ready, and when I mean ready, it was ready. So some people might say, oh yeah, my gear is good to go. Is it really? Can you just grab your bag and throw it into your truck and go? Or do you go, oh, I just need to grab this or this?

Mm-hmm.

I had no— there was no intelligence to suggest that this was going to happen, but something again, when I turned up in country, kind of made me think it could happen. I don't know why, I just said I want to be ready if it does. So I— because I, I know that every second counts when dealing with terrorists. So everything was good to go. So I was just, yep, grabbed my bag, threw it into my pickup truck, grabbed my weapons case, put on the back seat, and like put 14 Riverside Drive into Google Maps. That's telling me 30-odd minutes, which is, which is a joke, which is never going to be the case in, in Kenya. And then I go into the, into the bathroom, look in the mirror, and just kind of throw cold water on my face. I was like, right, let's fucking do this. I go out, I go outside as well. There's a crucifix by my doorway, and I knelt down, said a Hail Mary. and got in the truck. And, um, and then as I was leaving, there was on the— like, we had a group— there was a group chat for the people who lived in the area, and it said, oh, there's a bank robbery happening in, uh, in the area.

But I knew that not to be true. I didn't reply. And as I was going out of the complex where I lived, um, like I said, on Google Maps it said something like 38 minutes or so. And, um, I've done, I've done that same route afterwards just out of interest on a Tuesday afternoon at exactly the same time, just to see how long it took— would take me. And it took me, uh, well over an hour to do it on a normal Tuesday. But now what you're gonna remember is there's been a major— there's a major terrorist attack happening, and Nairobi is coming to a standstill. So as I pull out of the complex, I'd say it's like the, the traffic is just stationary, and I'm like— And I'm like, and I'm just thinking, you just gotta go, gotta go for it. This is, this is your rip. It's, it's me. Um, so I'm like, right, so I pull onto the oncoming traffic and just start caning it down and flashing my horn— sorry, flashing my lights, using my horn, going into the spaces where— so I'm in and out onto the sidewalk, doing the work where I could.

Amazing.

Just trying to get there as quickly as possible. So I'm like, like, and strangely, there was not, like I said, I didn't have blue lights or anything, but maybe people picked up on I needed to be there. And where normally people wouldn't give me the space or let me in, a lot of people were being, let me go. But also what I'm doing is, so I'm driving there.

Because you're counter-flowing traffic.

Yeah. on like sometimes with the flow on the right side, but then there was more, uh, the traffic, because the traffic was heading to the entrance, so that's why it was more solid. Leaving, if you imagine being stopped everywhere, leaving was pretty, pretty much free. Um, so I was going sometimes onto incoming traffic. It was like, yeah, have you ever seen The French Connection?

No.

There's a fit— well, it's a movie with Gene Hackman And there's a famous driving scene like that, but this is, this is The French Connection driving scene times 10. It was like that. But also, I'm driving, remember, I haven't been here long, this is a brand new truck, so I don't know my way around it, which will come apparent in a little bit. Um, but I'm— what am I there for? I am a liaison officer. So, part of me is, like, I'm getting to the incident, but part of me is thinking as well, I'm not going to get stuck in. I don't think whatever happens is going to happen. I'm thinking, well, I'll get there, and do my job as a liaison officer first and foremost. Um, so I think, right, well, I need to, I need to let people know what's going on. So I call the UK to the ops room, and it rings. And this never happens in the movies, but remember, this is round about 3:30 on a Tuesday afternoon in, in Kenya. That means it's 12:30 in UK, so most of the people in the ops room were at lunch.

So I'm phoning and then this guy answers, he's like, hello. He, he was a new guy, um, probably a comms guy or something like that, where he was so new he didn't know that the, the, uh, receiver had a push-to-talk button. So when he's saying stuff, I can't hear him because he's not pushing the push-to-talk. So I can't hear anything. I'm like, hey. It's Chris. There's a terrorist attack happening in Kenya, in Nairobi. I'm en route.

Hello?

I can't hear anything. So I'm trying to turn the volume and everything. So I went, yep, sending blind. That means if you say sending blind, it means I'm saying it, I don't know if anyone can hear me, but if they are, here goes. We're seeing terrorist attack happening at 14 Riverside Drive. I'm en route. Hang up. That's that. Um, so then I think, right, well, I'll speak to the Kenyans, the Kenyan military. So I start at the top with the commanding officer and then work my way down because I phone up and most of the phones are either turned off or just ring out. The majority of them are turned off, so I'm not getting— going down all the list of people who have got on the phone book, nothing. This does not faze me because in my mind I'm thinking Well, there's a major terrorist attack happening in Nairobi, so all of these people are probably involved or dealing with the situation, so I just need to get there. So, right now, I haven't spoke to anyone. And I said I didn't know the car. Somehow, in all of this messing around, trying to turn the volume up, trying to do stuff, all of a sudden, I'm trying to stay alive driving, all of a sudden, my playlist, because I've got a classical music playlist, on my phone, it starts playing Vivaldi's Four Seasons, and it's like, like not just loud.

And I don't want to turn it down because I'm, I'm trying to— at this point I'm trying not to die. So I'm just like driving in and out, and we've got all these cascading violins and like— and it's kind of—

Oh my God.

Although I had the classical music playlist to try and calm myself when driving and dealing with other drivers, especially in Africa. But this is just like— and I actually start laughing because it's the— I'm thinking in my mind, this is like I'm watching my own movie. This is a movie scene doing this driving with the— or like I say, this classic Vivaldi summer playing when I'm driving. I'm kind of laughing at the— how absurd it is. But, and there's a moment where there's 2, like, we'll call them matatus, or like small buses, and there's just just past the roundabout turning circle and they're coming together and I'm like driving, I'm like, okay, I'm going to floor it. And I'm like, oh, and I'm committed now. I'm like, ah, and it's so tight that even when I go between the 2 buses, as they're closing, I like kind of like breathe in to try and make not just me smaller but the whole vehicle smaller. And it must just— it just misses through, but I was committed. And I was hitting bursts of about 80 miles an hour. in this thing. And, and when you do advanced driving, uh, advanced driving isn't just about driving fast.

It's about knowing when to make the moves and when not to. Because what they teach you on day one is when you're responding to an incident, yeah, you got to get there fast, but getting there slower is better than not getting there at all. And if you kill someone on the way there or die or crash your car, therefore can't achieve your mission, then there's no point. So I was very thankful for the, the people who taught me that in the past. Then anyway, so then get to a certain point on the road and the— it's complete gridlocked. Luckily I had a 4x4 and a truck, and the opposite side, the, the, the dual carriageway on the other side is free. So I just go over the, over the median and scream straight up to the top and it And at that point, there's a cop directing traffic, and he runs out, like, stop! Again, I don't know why I said it, but I did. I put the window down, and I said, with a lot of conviction, I'm here on orders of the president. And he's like, oh, okay, go through. Like, thanks. And then just pull through here.

And as I pull through here, it's alerting me that I've got to my destination. And I'm like, all right, I'm here now. So, All of that fear's there, not just from the erratic driving, but because I need to be there. I am nervous. But now I get there, or get to that spur road where the terrorists started their attack, I'm kind of chill, because I've got here now. So, it's like, OK, I'm here now. And I actually become much more relaxed, because now I've just got to worry about what's going on. As I slowly drive down, I don't know where I'm going, I've never been here before, and I see burning cars along the road. And I'm, okay, I'll use those burning cars as a demarcation line. And those cars had been set on fire when the terrorists had thrown hand grenades that caused these 3 cars to catch fire. So they were burning. So I stopped the truck, and now I'm going to get out. And as I get out, I can hear gunfire and explosions, but I'm completely chill with this. The reason being, I think those gunfire and explosions are the— is the Kenyan military or security forces dealing with the incident.

For some reason, I think, I think I'm late to the party. I think everyone's here now and they're just dealing with it. So get out the truck and, and then, and I look down the road where I can see Police officers, not many, but a lot of people milling around or walking. Not many people really advancing towards the area. But from my— from right, I know it's down there. I can hear the gunfire explosion, so that's where I need to go. And I decided to put— so I've got to go down there. Now, I could have just walked down kind of like this, but I also thought, I don't want to just turn up and go, hey, you know, I'm here. I want to kind of look official. So that's why I put my I put my assaulter's belt on, put on my body armor, and put a balaclava on my— over to cover my face, knowing that the media are likely to be here as well, to hide my identity. And I'll take my— and the only reason, um, why I do this is to look kind of official. In that bag, my ready bag, that wasn't all my gear.

I had in there helmet, ear protection, eye protection, night vision goggles, My full uniform, other bits and pieces, because in my mind, if we'd been doing this as a simulation or an exercise, typically what would have happened would have went down, would have went into a planning cycle. I would have— they would have got permission if they needed me. I would have got permission, and that's— in that time gap, I probably would have went back to my car, put all my uniform on, got all my gear. Then we would have went into a planning cycle, and then we would have dealt with the terrorists. That's typically how it would work, or how people say, if you can, if you can wargame this scenario, what's, what's going to happen? So I think, so I'll leave all that gear in the bag because I think I'm going to come back and have a chance to grab it. So I take a counter down the road, I try to call, um, ops room and things again, can't get through to anyone, and I get— and as I turn up to the the threshold, if you like, which is the gatehouse and like the gateway.

I see the, the press are already here. They're on the right— oh, sorry, the left-hand side. And they've got body— they've got the body armor on, they've got the cameras, they've got helmets on. So they, they got there before me. I don't know how, but they did. And, um, so they're set up therefore. And I'm looking around and there's the gatehouse, so Some people are like, suggest the gatehouse. I open up and inside there's 8 to 12 guys and they're hiding in— they're not stood around, they're hiding, they're under tables and chairs or keeping low. And I looked down at one of them, say, what's going— I said, British SAS, what's going on? Or Special Forces, SAS, what's going on? They're like, Al-Shabaab, Al-Shabaab. I'm like, I know that. And then I hear more grenade gunfire and I'm like, Kenyan Special Forces in there? Kenyan police in there? Uh, again, there's, there's multiple people in there. And someone says, no.

Holy shit.

No one's in there yet. At the same time, I hear a woman scream, and I hear automatic gunfire cut the scream off. It fires and the scream— and I realize that woman has just been murdered. So, so right there, I look at them and say, right, I'm going in. You guys coming with me? And then one guy looks up and goes, no, boss. And then, then I leave the office and then commit into the hotel.

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. I got asked a question recently: if you could wake up tomorrow and be better at one thing, What would it be? For me, it's unplugging from work. When you love what you do, the switch never really flips off. There's always another episode, another guest, another idea at 2 in the morning. But getting better at actually shutting it down for a day, I'm working on it. That's the kind of thing that therapy is for, and BetterHelp makes it simple to start. It's entirely online. You fill out a short questionnaire, get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time at no extra cost. until it's the right fit. Better is a feeling defined by you, and for BetterHelp, it's a BetterHelp therapist who really gets you. It's a focus on global emotional well-being with thousands of therapists and millions of members in over 100 countries. It's progress, and it's getting better at unplugging to focus on the things that make life great. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/SRS.

That's betterhelp.com/SRS.

Before we move on, I'm just— when you got the call from the ex-Marine, I mean, you've, you've had— how much service has you had up to this point? I mean, we, we covered a lot of it in, in your other interview.

Yeah.

Not a lot of it, but different incidents. So where I'm going with this is This could be considered just another day with a lot of the places that you've been. Afghanistan, Iraq. I don't know everywhere you've been, but I've been in multiple places where it's a hospital blew up, a school blew up.

Yeah.

Shopping mall blew up, convenience store blew up, gas station blew up, terrorist attack at the market. Murdering tons of innocent people. I mean, this, this was— it's a, it's a weekly occurrence. Yeah.

It's a day—

sometimes it's a daily occurrence, you know, depending on where you're at and what time frame you were there. And in Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, like, this stuff happens, you know, on a, on a— it's almost routine. And so I'm sure you've been at those places when that has happened. and not felt a responsibility to respond.

I think the difference with this one was because Kenya is a beautiful country, it's very developed, it has happened in the past in Kenya, but it's not a daily occurrence. And so when it happens, it's big. And that's— and it's so— it's not like, like I say, it's not a war zone and people, uh, go on holiday and, um, it's very popular tourist destination, everything. So when it happens, is that— that, that straight away was highlighted, the gravity of it, because these don't— things happen often, but when they do, they're normally pretty, pretty serious and pretty big.

Mm-hmm.

Um, um, but it was just, yep, yeah, I'll go.

But it was—

and again, I didn't know it was I, in my thing, in my mind, I think people are there before me responding, doing stuff, whatever. So it's—

But you still had the sense of urgency, and it wasn't— it's not— I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but they're not your people. They're not your comrades. They're not your friends. They're not your family. They're not your loved ones.

I think it's not even your countrymen. Remember, and also going there to Bailey, at this point I'm going there to be like the liaison officer. So I'll get in In my mind, they'll be dealing with it, the security forces are dealing with it, I'll be there to report, help if possible, or if they want my support. So, from finding out it's happened and then to getting to that gatehouse, it's kind of— that's why I said I was kind of chill when I got there, was because, like, well, the Kenyans are going to be dealing with it and I'll do my job as a liaison officer and help if I need to and blah blah and all that. So, at that So driving there, I didn't think it was like— although it's like I've got to get there because it's my job, there's no sense of like, oh, it's, it's all up to me.

Mm-hmm.

I'm kind of saying it's me to get there because, because of pride, even because just because of pride. And maybe this is the highest form of FOMO, of like, I've got to get there. But it all changes when they're like, just the look of the guy looking up to me saying, no one's in there, no one's here yet, and then hearing a woman scream, it's like, okay, it's all on me now.

Yeah.

And it was— it wasn't— when I went from him saying that to me saying, right, I'm going in, it's probably less than 2 seconds reply. It wasn't— I didn't dwell on it and all that. And maybe, again, that's maybe my fault. Maybe I should have thought about it. I went, all right, maybe I need to assess the situation and phone in, get permission, do all these things like you would do on a maybe a simulation. But then it was just like, go, let's, let's go. So I'm going, you can either come with me. Like saying, are you coming with me? No, boss. Okay. And you didn't try and just persuade them? Didn't do anything. It was like, right, well, I'm going because if I'm not going to do it, no one else is, and someone's just been murdered. And, um, And that's what, you know, I would expect. That's— I'd expect other people to think the same way. I know— I now know that that's maybe not the case, but— and then I, um, and then I commit into the, uh, into the hotel. And here's the thing what people forget, like, I'm— people might see a different side of me in this interview because what I'm trying not to be It's too humble.

And the book, which you can get now if you're watching this, is very forgiving. If I could redo— like, again, I want it to be that way when I wrote it and finished it in the United States, is that, you know, it's I should have been a bit more harsher, but, you know, it's good. But I'm committed in. Once I'm committed in, remember, I've never been here before. I do not know this hotel complex at all. I don't know how many terrorists there are, but I do know I can hear multiple gunfire shots. I can hear grenades going off. I don't know what they look like. So, now I've gone in to neutralize terrorists. Um, and like I say, I don't know what they look like. So I now got to do split-second thinking when I see people, because they could be— they could be the terrorist, but they also could be a police officer, if there's any in there. There could be a security guard, there could be a civilian, there could be an emergency worker, there could be a— like, anything. And I've got to make that split-second decision when I see them, whether to shoot not shoot.

The terrorists, on the other hand, who've got automatic weapons and grenades, they don't have to think about who they shoot. They're, they're killing everyone. So they— so, but, but as I said, I didn't think I was at a disadvantage though, because I was an SAS commando going through that way. I've been trained. I'd luckily had an extremely unusual career. leading up to this, so I've got a lot of experience. And I'm going there, in there, as a member of Britain's top unit. No one else comes close. No one. It's the SAS. And I'm in there. So, people will go, oh, were you not scared? I'm like, no. Because these are just shahid Islamic terrorists. And now they— now they've met a threat, and I feel ready for it, and I feel ready to bring it on. So, so I'm in there.

That's a level of confidence that nobody has.

But, um, so move into the complex. My mindset is search and destroy. Kill, not capture. I want to neutralize these terrorists, but I have no idea where I'm going. So I have a look around, I see an open doorway which was the— an entrance into the storeroom of the cafe, I found out later on. I move into there, clear it, clear through it, no one in there. There's another door which I now know leads into the kitchen of the Secret Garden Cafe where the suicide detonation was. And as I move closer to the door, I can hear moaning, crying, groaning behind the door. So, again, if it was a simulation, I would breach through the door and clear the room. But now I'm thinking on my feet, which is the thing that separates the highest level of operators to average operators. It's like, yeah, you can do everything you've been trained to do, Now we've got it. Now you're working outside of the— outside of your comfort zone and outside of the box. You've got to think on your feet. So my level of thought straight away is, well, if I— there's more— I know there's injured people in here.

What does that tell me? One, it's unlikely that there's a terrorist in there. It's never— it's never not possible, but it's unlikely. But who else could be in there? Well, maybe there's a guy like me who's been wounded who's got— who's got a weapon. So, if I burst through the door with a balaclava on and a rifle, I could get lit up, and I don't want it. So, I just bang on the door and say, hey, security forces, I'm coming in. So, I announce my arrival to try and mitigate against anyone shooting me, because I don't know what the situation is yet. Breach into this room, still clear it. And but what I can see is lots of blood and gore in the room, a lot of visibly injured people. So straight away I look around and then I'm like, okay, so 2 seconds ago it was kill and capture. Now I've got to make this quick assessment. Right now it's hostage rescue. Because my thought was I could just go, right, the terrorists aren't here, I'm going to move and try and find them. That's one way of looking at it, but remember, as far as I know right now, it's only me.

And at that point, it is only me. But if I leave these wounded people, one, they need medical assistance, some of them urgently, and two, I don't know if the terrorists are going to come back into this room and then execute everyone. So my duty now is to— my priority is saving their lives. I know you can argue this. Again, it's this battle of killing the terrorists saves their lives, But it's like, what can I do, right? It's the here and now, right? I can save these people here right now. So it's like, right, I'm gonna get you out. So I grab one person, they don't want to leave. Look, I'm going to get you out. But before I start dragging them out, I'm like, what have you seen? What have you seen? I'm straight away trying to gather intelligence of how many attackers there are. Some people say 2, some people say 4, some people say 6. And so I'm trying to get a grip of the situation, and then I start Evacuating the people, pulling them towards the gatehouse. As I'm getting to the gatehouse, this entry point, which is only about 40 yards away, 30, 40 yards away, there's more and more police authorities turning up.

And I'm pulling them towards the gatehouse. I'm like, hey, come and help me, come and help me. And no one does. So at certain points, and then I— for the first few, I just— or first couple, I like leave them in sight and so someone can come and grab them, and then I run back in. and I'm dragging people back. After about, uh, 4 people, then armed civilians come and start helping me. And in the book, in all previous briefings, I call these people free radicals. So it's— so it's an armed civilian. Now, the thing about a free radical is you do know what— you do not know what you're going to get. It's, yes, it's someone in civilian clothes with a weapon. So you could argue me. I'm a free radical, but I'm a member of the SAS, and I've got over 1,000 high-risk missions under my belt. And I was the lead CQB instructor for the SAS. So that's me. Right at the other end, you could have just a guy who's got a gun. who may be fired at once with no training. So there's that. Then you've got plainclothes police officers, then you've got security contractors.

You all have varying levels, so some could be benefits, but more likely liabilities. Um, but, but what I am thankful for is these guys stepped forward. They didn't have body armor, like, they had— they only had pistols. They didn't have body armor like me. They stepped into harm's way to start evacuating people. And so they start helping evacuate people. Once we get everyone out, we're then— there's about, again, I think it's like 6 to 8 guys, and we're in this storeroom. And I'm like, guys, do you know this area? And all of these people knew this hotel. Well. And, and, um, and I'm getting also getting the measure of people straight away. Um, so there's one guy in particular, um, a Norwegian, I believe, super, um, yeah, happy with you. Another guy, Kenyan, bald head, uh, sorry, like, uh, um, of Indian heritage. Yeah, all talk, and I was just like, a firearms instructor Incidentally, this guy is also a liar because he went on to fabricate stories afterwards. Um, so, uh, in my opinion, a bit of a piece of shit. But, um, anyway, but I'm thankful that he's helping at this point anyway.

So, and I'm like, hey, we need to keep the pressure on, we need to keep going. At the same time, at that, that moment, I'm like, look into the Secret Garden Cafe. I can see the devastation, see the dead bodies. But I take a photograph. So I take a— and the reason I'm taking a photograph of it is straight away I'm— again, it's being at the— operating at the highest level. I'm there, I'm going to take a photograph because people are going to want to see this, as in it's all part of reporting and filling in the intelligence gaps. So I take a photograph. At that same time, my phone rings. I answer it. It's the ops room back in the UK, and the guy on the other end of the phone is a— was a long-term time, friend of mine, he's like, Chris, do you know there's a terrorist attack going on in Kenya? And I'm like, yeah, mate, I'm there, I'm there right now, um, evacuating people. And there's a long pause, a very long pause. Apparently at that same time, I started coming up on all the screens in the ops room because I was on Sky News and stuff, and all the world's media was showing me.

Oh, really?

And someone shouted, apparently, He knows there's an incident going on because he's on the fucking TV. And people started laughing. Um, but there's a long pause and he's like, okay, mate, keep your head down, keep going, and keep us informed. And that was it. So now I know that the UK knows I'm there. What I don't know is that the UK is not happy that I'm there, but Um, immediately. Yeah. Um, um, and that's not, that's not focused on the command of the SAS. This is focused on the higher levels.

It's the government.

The, the government, the Foreign Office, certain elements. Obviously some people are overjoyed I'm there, but the powerful majority are going, what is he doing there? without permission, with all that hardware, running around saving people's lives. I mean, it might have been different. I was running around just firing, firing at windows and indiscriminate or whatever I could get at then. But the only images, the only information they can see of me now is me pulling out wounded people out of a hotel, and they're not happy about that, which we'll come on to later on, um, when we're talking about the book. But so, so, but anyway, But it was good to hear a friendly voice on the phone, and he's like, good words as well from him, cool as a cucumber. Um, okay, mate, good effort. Keep your head down, keep going, keep us informed. Um, but I'm saying to these 3 radicals, right, we gotta, we gotta push on, we gotta push on. Momentum. I know that momentum is key. So we all say, oh, the hotel's down that way. They point out to me because I don't know where I'm going. We then step out from the, from the doorway we entered towards where the hotel is.

At that point, as we've moved about 10 yards, there's a long burst of automatic fire from an elevated position that hits the ground just to our left and arcs up, and arcs up into the Secret Garden Cafe, hitting the glass panels or the panels. It does 2 things. So the first thing it does is it lets me know roughly where the threat could be. So to me, it's somewhere up there. The other thing it does, it pushes all of these free radicals back into that storeroom, because it's like what Tony Soprano says, everyone wants to be a gangster till it's time to do gangster shit. So they're not playing anymore. So, I move, take cover by the corner of the building. I then look back towards where the gatehouse is, and I can see more and more, like, armed personnel turning up. So, I quickly run back to the hotel. This, all this element here, where this sits, is kind of vague in my memory, but I've tried to piece this together as back, but there's video evidence to back this next bit up. I then go back to the— this bit is all on, there's all video evidence of this.

I go to the gatehouse, and I'm talking to the security guards. I'm like, hey, I think I know where the shooters are. I think I know where they are. Just give me 4 men, and then I think we can neutralize it. And they're like, no, we can't go in without permission. We have not got permission to go in there. Which, in some ways, it's fair enough. These are Kenyan police officers, and if they break the rules, Yeah, they might do, but this job is extremely precious to them and their family, so they're going, no. So, I'm like, OK. So then I run off, and, like, all this is footage. You can see me run off back into the complex by myself. What you can't hear is when I run off, I shout, go fuck yourselves. And then I run to the entrance of what was the hair salon. As I get outside, a proper flashbang, which is like a distraction grenade, Throw that in and start clearing into this hair salon, which there seems to be no people in there. I'm in this hair salon, I cleared through, it's quite a large area inside, but there's, there doesn't seem to be anyone there.

Not long after I make entry and clear it, 2 Kenyan police officers, the GSU, General Service Unit, um, come in and They, uh, they come in armed with AK-47s and they're like, it's clear, it's clear. I went, it's not clear.

They're calling the entire—

No, no, this room, it's clear, it's clear, let's go. It's not clear. And then it's clear. And that point I like changed my way and like, like put it down on them like, it is clear, I'm in charge, I'm in charge here, blah blah blah, I am a major, and blah blah blah, like This is, this is the, um, it's clear. It's— sorry, it's not clear. We need to clear this. And like, oh, okay. So I move around and I go at the first door and I try it and it's locked. It's like a storeroom, uh, and then I can hear whispering behind it. So I bang on the door and I'm like, hey, and I've got my gun up ready to, ready to rock if I need to. And I'm like, security forces, hey, if there's anyone here, come out with your hands up, come out. No answer. I can hear talking again. I'm like, okay, I know there's people in there. Come, like, come out. And, um, and this is the difference between being trained and untrained. Imagine being an erratic, untrained person. I could have just unloaded into that thing thinking there may be a terrorist.

But, but even then, I'm thinking about protection of the civilians. Because I'm thinking, I then say to them, if I know there's someone in there, If you're by the door, step back, 'cause I'm about to kick it in. Same thing again, it's threat assessment. If I can hear whispering and talking, it's unlikely that it's a terrorist. I don't think it's gonna be the terrorists themselves. It could be, it could have been, but I don't think so. So then kick the door in, donkey kick, swing round, gun up. Everyone get your hands up. Get your fucking hands up. Hands up. And then as they come out, I'm searching each one. passing them to the police, but just giving them a pat-down. Then what am I doing? Asking them questions. Where— how many terrorists? Where are they? Have you seen them? Trying to build up this picture. I then go around, and then the police officers try to go to evacuate them straight away, and I'm like, no, stop! Do not put them out there! Because what I don't want— remember, I've just taken heavy gunfire from outside. So, what the worst case would be to put the civilians, tell them to go out, and then they get gunned down.

So I look around, there's like a large open area, like a room. It's like open plan. I say, everyone who comes out, put them in there. So it's like a holding pen.

Mm-hmm.

And then I go through every— and everyone was hiding in, like, whether it be bathrooms, storerooms. There was about 150 people in this hair salon. And that's not because there was 150 people in this hair salon when it was attacked. It was because, if you think about it, suicide detonation happens, People start making their way to the, to the front gate, then they hear the gunfire. So this kind of was one of the last places where they could have taken refuge. Yeah, that's where they all ran. So they've all went to— that's why there's so many people. So now we've got all these people.

So you're sorting through 150?

Round about that. There's a— and so then we've got to evacuate them. So like, so then, then say to the Kenyan— Kenyan police officers as a whole were great. throughout this whole incident. It's like, right, this is what we're going to do.

You—

and I say to this everyone— you run. A police officer going to grab you, take you out, and then run you to the gate. Out to the gate. Once you see the gate, he'll let you go, and then you run. You'll come— we'll come back and get everyone. I will firstly— I will step out and cover the high ground, cover where that gunfire came from. I've got the training. I've got the better weapon system, and I will cover it. Everyone happy? Okay. So, get to the doorway. They've got 2 people ready. Like, ready, set, go. Step out. Kenyan police officers run out. At some point, a woman pushes past and tries to run towards the hotel. I then grab her and then run her to the gear house. And there's a picture of me And actually, on one of the pictures you see me holding, you can see the Free Radicals. They're still in the doorway, so I'm running past the Free Radicals. Uh, I'm— I haven't quite got to them, but I'm going to run past them, and they're looking up to where that gunfire was. Um, just in case anyone decides that I'm not telling the truth.

And then, um, and I run it to the gatehouse. I run back in, and the— the— we do it one more time, and then I realize, this is going to take forever. And I'm always thinking, Momentum. It's all about pace and momentum. We've got to, we've got to keep going, keep the pace going. So, Kenyan police officers come back after evacuating another 2. I'm like, all right, hold it there. Okay, everyone listen to me. This is what we're going to do now, is I will go outside and I will count you out. I will throw you out and you'll go get in the line and just follow the person in front. At a certain point, I will stop it. and then you just hold there. We will get you out. So, because now I need to get as many people out as possible, follow, follow the person in front, and when you see the gate, run for your life. Happy? Happy. So, ready, set, go. Boom, out quickly. Then 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Like, it was probably the maximum, uh, get them out there. That that start, and we start doing that, and that starts working really well.

Again, every now and again someone would run, turn the opposite direction, just pure panic, whatever, and I'd grab them and sometimes accompany them back and just push on. We'd done it a few times, we're getting near the end of it. I think we had roughly 2 more groups. The 3 radicals who were in the— who were with me earlier then decided to turn up. But when they break, come into the room, they start screaming and shouting, everyone get out, get out! This time the tone is different. I'm like, shut the fuck up. We're dealing with it. You can help. This is what we're doing. And again, I'm grateful for them to start helping. And again, we only do about 2 more groups after that. Get back into them, and then we form again with the Free Radicals. And again, the same. I don't know why I did like again. I'm just conscious that they know the way around here. So I'm like, okay, what we're going to do. Do you know where? And I said, oh, we'll go, we can go around, there's like an alleyway there, we'll go through there. Okay. So we're going through, as— so we set off.

The 2, they pretty much dismissed the 2 Kenyan police officers who did an amazing job, and we set off, uh, on it. So there's a group of like, I don't know, like 6, 6 to 8, and then we're moving down all the way along. This idiot who I mentioned earlier is barking asinine at us, and he apparently has said I was leading Chris in Craighead. Now, if you mean shouting asinine orders and saying stuff about covering areas, well, yeah, that's it. It's only a few minutes, so— but as we go through this underpass and we're going through, we hear our first heavy footsteps behind us, and the 2 Kenyan police officers who were helping me clear come around and they go, Mr. Chris, Mr. Chris, Mr. Chris, Mr. Chris. I'm like, yeah, more people up here. I'm like, Okay, I'll come with you. So I just peel off and say to the Free Radicals, I'm going with them, I'll catch you all later on. They didn't— they don't acknowledge it, and I didn't care anyway. So I then leave them, and that's the last time I see those people. I see one of them later on, have a quick chat, but it's the last time I ever certainly work with them, uh, again.

But I'm— for all of like my negativity, not that there's much of it, I'm still Credit to them for putting themselves in the line of fire to help evacuate people. And, um, so I follow the 2 Kenyans and they— we go upstairs to, to where the hair salon was, just over from it. And they point into a room and the door's open. I have a quick clear from the outside and then, uh, I can hear crying coming from under the table. Again, something comes over me, not a tactic I've ever thought about. Nothing I've ever done before or since, but I take a step back from the doorway, and then I run into the room. And there's a— I remember I've cleared it from the outside, and I can hear the crying, so I think the threat is low. I run into the room. It's got, like, a fancy marble floor. I then skid on my ass under the table, and as I appear under the table, the women under there scream. Oh, my God. And I pull off my balaclava and show my face, go, Jambo, habari. And they like scream, start crying, then they start laughing and start crying.

I goes, come on, I'm gonna get you out of here, let's go. And then— and I don't know, it's like one of those things where you— why people say, why did you do that? I'm like, I'm sure everyone's got it in them. It's— it becomes a thing when the whole world's collapsing. But you still have to make a joke or an inappropriate joke or a joker or something. And maybe it was just me knowing it's going to lighten the tension, make them more manageable to get out, rather than come on. If I'd walked in and went, right, get out, get out, get out, get out, they might be like, uh, frozen in fear. So I'm breaking this tension to make them more manageable. And maybe it worked, maybe it didn't make any difference, but it makes for a good story. So get them out, get them evacuated. We then go back through where we were going, and I didn't know this then, but I can, I can see, so I can see the multi-story car park, multi-level car park in front of me, and it's attached to the hotel. Now I look at the— and again, this is where it becomes like being a grown-up.

I look at the multi-story car park and think, The terrorist, we took it from an elevated firing position. I don't think it was from the top of this car park. I mean, it was just— incidentally, it was just next to it, but it could have been. And someone's got to clear this. I'm— we're here right now, so let's just do it. So I could have thought, oh, let's get into the meeting, to the hotel, but I'm like, no, this is my responsibility. I can't just— it's a, a route of failure if I just dismissive thing, and assuming, ah, there should be nothing in there. So again, I was like, right, I'm going to clear the car park. So now we start clearing the car park. So it's like a spiral, like you park up that goes up multi-level like that, and in the middle you've got the elevators and, um, and stair shaft. So how we're doing it, we go in, we only go up one level, and when I go up one level, I see a guy, he's coming in And he's got body armor with, um, uh, Agent written on it. And this guy is a guy called Daniel Postaro, who is a Slovenian security guard, and he's got an M4 and a pistol.

And I look to him and say— so, Free Radical— and I say, hey, do you know CQB, close quarter combat? He goes, yeah, a little bit. I went, come and work with me. And it's a strange thing of just from, you know, when you look at people without them actually doing anything, you get a measure of them.

Yeah.

I was picking, and straight away I got the measure of this guy and was like, actually, I think this guy's going to be, going to be good. So he joins with me straight away, and, um, and I said, right, this is what we're going to do. We're going to use it with the 2 Kenyans. We're going to go up. I'll make entry into the next level onto where the— on every floor where the elevator— opposite the elevators, there's 3 lockers that you can't lock. They're just small lockers that you can fit a human being inside. and there's 3 lockers. I said, we'll get on the floor, I'll clear, and then, um, Daniel, you, you cover me as I open each— cover the lockers as I open the door. He's like, so bam, bam, bam, cover. And then the Kenyan— and then 2 Kenyan police officers, you come up once we see clear, and then I will then push out into each floor onto where the cars are, sweep round sweep low, you guys cover the other way, and I'll give a call out going, hey, security forces, if you're hiding in your cars, come out.

Go up the other floor, do the same, and then go up. So we do that, and it's just a made-up drill. It's nothing I've been told before, nothing, but it was just like trying to make it work. So we do that for about the first, first, the, the floors, and working well, 4 floors. And this is a— this, by the way, this is a 12-story car lot, car park. By the 4th one, I'm like, right, we've got to do this a more efficient way. So then I just say, um, I say to the, to the 2 Kenyans, you hold the floor, we clear, and then Daniel will— Daniel and, uh, Daniel and I will sweep up that way, run up the— where the cars are parked, and then clear that next level, clear the— and then you come up the stairs and join us. happy. So we, so we're just making it more efficient. So we, we do that, and there's people on nearly every floor hiding in the cars, and one or two people will get them out and send them down the stairs. As we get higher, as I'm, as we're running around, I can see more people coming.

It's got a view of the gate entrance. I can see more and more Free Radicals and police officers flooding in. So now I'm again thinking about the protection of the civilians. I want to make sure these don't get shot. So I'll shout, I shout like friendlies, or eagle eagle as it was. Not that made sense to anyone, but I like friendlies, security forces clearing up, civilians coming down, civilians coming down, just to let everyone know there's civilians coming. Everyone coming out here should be a friendly so they don't get shot. They'll then move up, and it's a good lesson in than this. On the— we get to the last floor without going onto roof, and it's the last set of lockers. By that time, we're getting pretty complacent with these lockers because there's been nothing inside them.

Mhm.

Daniel's not even covering me, and I'm not bothered because I'm just opening them myself with my gun under the shoulder, like. And I get to the last locker on the last floor, and I open the locker, and in there dressed completely in black with body— like, like with the vest on and everything— is a female security guard.

Holy shit.

And she screams as I open it as well, and I jump back fractions away from shooting her in the face. And look, again, it's all that training, everything. I was just like— I'm not gonna lie, my safety catch came off. Was like, jump back, safety off, finger moving down, and then luckily that time to process the target. I was like, yep, shit, catch back on. And then she screamed, and I was like, what the fuck you doing? And started laughing. And then she said something in Swahili to these police officers who started laughing. And then I was like, get out of here. Like, and, uh, but it's a good lesson to go, never let your guard down. And if I'd done that as a training serial, if I was training law enforcement or military or whatever, and put that— made that scenario People would have went, that wasn't realistic, you were just trying to get me to shoot a civilian. But it happens, no matter how unusual it might seem or how unlikely. Anything can happen in combat. So there's that. And then we go on to—

Are you still hearing the terrorists at this? How much time has gone by?

At this point, this is coming up to nearly an hour.

An hour?

It's over an hour into it. You can hear sporadic gunfire. There's gunfire going off. What had happened at that point, when I'd made entry, that something had happened. Someone may have been giving intelligence to the terrorists, because once I'd made up, the message would have gone on, our special forces have made entry, and the terrorists moved to do— moved to their— I don't want any spoilers yet— moved to their position. So they weren't— so they, at this point, they weren't roaming free. They'd done as much damage as they can and then went to their fallback positions at this— by this time. Um, so get to the roof again. I was just about to go on the roof to do the fire.

Are you on their trail?

No.

I mean, you know what I mean? Are you following their path?

No, no, because I, I have no idea. I have no intelligence. I have no support. I don't know.

I mean, I didn't know if you could see casualties. No.

And this is why it was— that's why I come back to what I said earlier about I think it's unlikely that they were in this car park, but someone has to clear it, and I'm right here, so it's got to be So I'll just do it rather than waste— yeah, you could have argued maybe if I'd committed in, I would have found the terrorists before they got to the fallback positions and killed them. Who knows? But, but it was like me being, like, from my instructed— like, being instructed to being, uh, doing team leader stuff and everything. It's just like, no, this is here, clear it. It's all about the here and now, not assuming that it's cleared, assuming that the terrorists might not be there. And I know, and I was, I was working on— I was going to be a bit quick. It was quick, we did it, we did it in short order, but I thought it might have been a bit quicker. Um, we get to the top, spider's sense kicks in, and I'm like, now we need to— something's not right about this. And then I hold back the, the, uh, Kenyan police officers who want to go up there, and they're like, don't touch me.

And I'm like, have to like really rein in on them, like No, you're not going up there. Let me go up there. And I, as I go up, take gunfire that comes from— I assess it came from the, from the Kenyan helicopter. There was a military helicopter in the area. Whether it be where they had a dedicated sharpshooter, whether they just had a gun guy in there with a gun, who knows. But I looked around at the area post-incident and there was no more elevated position, but the rounds definitely came by. I then which was my worry, that would— I had this threat that we could take up, like, I didn't know the lay of the land, but I was concerned of being exposed, then taking friendly fire. And I was right. Phoned the UK, they miraculously managed to speak to the, uh, well, they spoke to the Kenyan, uh, the High Commission, which is like the British Embassy. Bizarrely, the guy who was in the helicopter, who was working to the helicopter, or had communication with the helicopter, knew a guy in that ops room, one of the Kenyans. And usually these things would take hours or days to get through, but it happened in minutes.

And went, yep, friendly's on the roof. And the message got passed and they said, yeah, you can go on the roof now. Um, and that was kind of spoken to the High Commission, I thought. They called me and said, you can go on the roof. We've— that's how I got this information. And then went onto the roof and then evacuated a load of people off the roof. Then going— and as we're going down the stairs, I'm shouting, friendlies coming down, friendlies coming down! Always thinking about protection of the civilians. Once we got back to the bottom of the car park, there's like a gradient hill about 100, 150 yards to the— to maybe a bit roughly, I'm working on memory here— to the gatehouse. And I— Again, thinking about friendlies, if I take off my balaclava or pull it down, put my gun out the side like that, walking, going, friendlies, friendlies, friendlies, just so I looked like no risk. Um, Daniel was escorting a young, a young woman, um, and that's the last time I saw him. I didn't even get a chance to say goodbye. I didn't see him again. He then linked up with those 3 radicals and helped clear some more people out, and he did, he did an amazing job.

We became friends. I kept in touch with him. He I only worked with him for— it must have been like 15, 20 minutes clearing that car park, but he, but he was a huge asset that day. Um, and I get to the— as I get to the gatehouse, I can see lots of people flooding in. I'm trying to say, people get— people get out, it's not clear, it's not clear. There's some guys with suits with a walkie-talkie and pistol and got body armor on. I'm like, get out, get out. I'm quite aggressive about it. And then I say to one of them who looked quite old and senior, I said, hey, are you in charge? He's like, no. I goes, who's in charge? He's like, come with me. So then I follow him, we go through the gatehouse, and then there's an old man there and he's covered with a security detail. This man, this man is a very senior figure in the Kenyan police force. And he looks at me, he goes, who are you? I'm like, um, UK Special Forces, SAS. Do you want to know what's going on? He's like, yes. So I then give him my assessment of the situation, say we've had a suicide detonation, um, and we've— a suicide detonation and we have active gunmen, estimated 2 to 6 people.

Still hadn't seen them yet, and I was asking people. So I said, 2 to 6, 2 to 6 terrorists are still active with automatic weapons and hand grenades. Casually, and I said casually, my estimate at the time, I said at least 15 dead and, uh, multiple injuries. He then says something that changes the outcome of the day, which was the assessment. He then says, can you lead my men? The reason that such a— was assessed to be such a, um, game changer was if he hadn't have asked me to do that, when eventual units turned up, it was like— it was likely that they would have went as far as the gatehouse and went into a planning cycle, and that would have then changed the whole situation into like a siege situation.

Mm-hmm.

Which was similar to the Westgate Mall thing which happened in 2012 or '13. And, um, but, but by him asking me to lead the men carried on the momentum, and the— we had the initiative and carried on the order, just carried on that momentum, which changed everything. And I said, yes, yes, sir, of course. So then we had a bit of a talk and then turned on my heel, and then I set off into the complex with, um, with basically a squadron of GSU. These guys had, uh, armed with in some cases G3 assault rifles, in some cases Heckler& Koch, wearing the Marine berets. Very few had helmets on, but they had their berets, and some had helmets on. And, um, and I'm walking down the hill. The reason why I go down the hill, I have no idea where I'm going to go, but when I turn around, I can see buildings to my right, and there's There's like, uh, Kenyan Red Cross ambulances by the side and, and GSU police officers outside. So I'm looking— those initial buildings I'm presuming are cleared, so I'm just going to carry on walking down till we come to uncleared buildings.

2 plainclothes police officers accompany me to escort, to try and stop people from taking photographs, and do that and lead me to where the next— where I need to be. And my band of merry men are behind me. Um, and I'm— so I give a quick call to the, the UK and just say, I've been asked to help, I'm clearing through with Kenyan police. They acknowledge that and I carry on. Um, as I'm walking down the hill, they've got, um, a young guy comes up and he's holding a sledgehammer. Sorry, he's not— I don't see the sledgehammer. So he comes up, he's wearing a luminous vest, he's like, mister, mister. I'm like, Well, he goes, can I come with you? I went, what? He said, can I come with you? I'm like, no. And then he holds up a sledgehammer and says, I can smash in doors. So I'm like, okay, come and join the party, you're the breacher. So now I've got a breacher, and a young man called, uh, Julius, who I think is one of the bravest men of that day, uh, he joins in, steps in behind me. As I get near the bottom 2 guys who were like kind of journalists, but one had a pistol, but, but they were journalists.

And they said, we're going to come with you. No, you're not. He goes, yeah, we are. He goes, no, you're not. And he goes, yes, you are. Yes, we are. There's nothing you can do about it. And I'm, okay, well, just join in, slot yourselves in, just keep out the way and try and make me look good if you can. As a joke, obviously, I said, and they laughed. But, um, and then at the bottom of the hill, they Then I'm met where there's a large group of police officers, and that's basically the line, the forward line of where things have been cleared to. And there's the photograph of me looking at a piece of paper. So, they hand me this piece of paper, which, again, my memory's kind of vague on this, but it was kind of saying that there's businessmen and people are still located in the building to my front, which was— when I'm looking at that paper, it's behind me, but— as we're walking down the hill. So there's a cool picture. I've got the balaclava on, I'm hanging there like looking at the, um, the paper, and it's a cool photograph.

But what it doesn't show is— or what it doesn't tell you is— I'm looking at a photograph, there's police sirens going off, there's people shouting, there's sporadic gunfire. Um, there's fire alarms, there's helicopters, all of that ocean of noises going on. And I'm the man, I've got to make a plan. I've got a squadron of guys behind me, so like that's 30 to 60 men who do not know CQB, close-quarters hostage rescue. And now the difference is, it's always on me, but now if— but if they kill someone Or if they shoot something they're not supposed to shoot, yeah, they'll probably get in trouble, but it all comes back to me. So now I'm in charge. There's this rustling, and I'm looking at this piece of paper thinking, what the hell am I going to do? So I've got to make a plan, and I make a plan there and then. And the plan is this: I turn around to everyone and say, right, this is, this is what we're going to do. We're going to go in floor by floor, room by room. I will make entry alone into every room. No one is to come with me because I'm thinking about protection of the civilians.

Mm-hmm.

And I know this is where I'd rather me get killed by the terrorists than a Kenyan shoot a civilian and me get blamed for it. I'd rather that mission failure was unexpected. The only The only acceptable mission failure for me is my death. Everything else is unacceptable. And, um, um, so I'm like, I'll go in. If I shout a number, that means that's a number of men I want. So if I shout 1, I want 1 person to come in. If I shout 5, I want 5. And then we can just cover doors and help me out and search and evacuate people. They were brilliant. Like I say, the, the Kenyan police were brilliant. They were like, yeah, okay. And they were— no, No egos, no nothing. They're like, we are— you're the man, we're going to follow, follow your orders. And it was that, and that's great. And I said, if I need, if I need doors, Julius, you're up with a, with a, with a hammer. Yeah. Yes, boss. Brilliant, let's go. So we then just clear room by room, floor by floor. As we get civilians, we pull them out, search them, pass them to the Kenyan police, and they take them down the line.

So, we successfully evacuate this whole building, which is the Arlington Building. We get to the last floor, so the top floor. There's this big reinforced door. Julius, the breacher, has a go. He can't get through. I have a go. I am— So, what I have to say at this point, this is kind of like 2 hours or so, over 2 hours into the incident. And I've been hard charging all this way through, so I am soaking wet with sweat. I'm breathing like I'm sucking air in from China or somewhere. I'm like really like dying. Kenyans start laughing at me. I'm like, hey, you buggers, like, I'm probably older than you think. And like, you have a go then. So they have a go. No, eventually Julius is hitting it. Even the press have a go. The whole wall falls down, or the whole— Like, segment comes out, that falls down, go through, and then there's a barricade behind a glass door, but the keys are on the other side. So I'm like, barricade up, there's no movement. It's kind of a good sign for me because what this says to me is, oh, there's a barricade.

So that— I'm like, guys, there are civilians in here because they made this barricade. There's civilians in here. No one shoots unless I tell you to. Throughout that clearance, there'd been times when they all opened up, and I'd be like, stop firing. But that's another thing. We then— but then I say to Julius, all right, with your sledgehammer, with your sledgehammer, smash the glass and I'll open the door. Okay. For some unbeknown reason, he had his sleeves rolled up like me. Instead of hitting the glass with a sledgehammer, like at the bottom of the sledgehammer, creating distance, he uses the sledgehammer like a battering ram. So when he goes through the glass, all the sheets of glass just fall straight down onto his arms and open up all his arteries on his arms and blood everywhere, claret. And then he is evacuated. I never see him again. I never saw him. He did— he survived. But like I said, he was, from his actions of stepping up, a very young— appeared to be a young man from the Kenyan Red Cross, but willing to put himself right at the front of the stack to breach doors.

Um, what a brave individual. Uh, but he was evacuated, but he left the sledgehammer, so we've still got that. Um, and now, um, so we break through into this, and in that last office was Japanese businessmen. So we evacuate all these Japanese businessmen out. So that's that building pretty much cleared. We then go down the main stairs. So we use the service stairs, and we're going to— and as I get to the to the main— the bottom of the main stairs. We come down, we see guys dressed in black, uh, Kenyans in black, obviously police. We've got all those police down here, and I think they're Kenyan Special Forces, but they're not. They're the recce squadron. So they're the, the GSU guys who have been with— these are the elite of the GSU, trained by Americans, well-trained, well-equipped. So they're both in black, some in green. with M4s, Glocks, ballistic helmets, look the part and are the part, really good, good operators, individuals. But I say, are you Kenyan Special Forces? Like, no, we're Recce Squadron. Okay. He's like, who are you? I'm like, I've just asked to, um, lead these guys. Okay, you are no longer in command.

We've got— we are, we are running things now. We're evacuating everyone out, so just wait down here. asked, he asked for my credentials. I had my ID, showed him it, and it's like— and they were using the armored vehicles to evacuate everyone who didn't have a part to play. So all the free radicals, all of the press, paramedics, police officers unassigned, all getting evacuated to take control of the situation, which is super good.

Wow.

And, um, so I'm like, okay, that's cool, because in my mind I'm like, all right, I'll get evacuated to the main gate and then I'll just resume role as a liaison officer. That's all, it's all cool. I see one of the Free Radical, the, the, the Norwegian guy who was, um, who I thought was a good guy of that original group. I talked to him, he told me some of the shenanigans that went on, which I won't repeat on here, but again, my suspicions were confirmed of some of them being absolute idiots. Um, but it was good to see him and get the, um, get the lowdown off him. He was evacuated. But this is the first time— so this is about 2 and a half hours into the incident, starting to get dark. And, um, it's the first time where I'm not hard charging and thinking on my feet. And it's also the first time I think, damn, like, I've acted a lot on my own, off my own bat here. Yeah. I might be in trouble. So I then try and start calling people like, hey, what's going on with the— I had the number of the, um, the Director of National Intelligence for Kenya on my phone, and I'd been in communication with them at Christmas time.

And I just sent a message saying, General, I've been at the incidents pretty much from the get-go. If you need to know what's going on, give me a shout. Credit to him, as soon as the WhatsApp messages went blue, phone rang. Answer the phone, he's like— I was like, yes, General? He's like, Chris, my boy, thank you so much for being there. What's going on? So I gave him my interpretation of events, which is same, still the same as what happened early, as before. I had no reason to change it. There's a long pause, which to me said in hindsight anyway, this is different to what I've been being told on the ground. Oh, sorry, and what I should add as well, he said, oh, I'm, I'm sat next to the president right now of Kenya. What's going on? So I should add that factor in. And there's a long pause, which, like I said, seems to me like— it seems like this is different to what he's been told. He then changes my world once again and says Chris, you— can you stay there and report directly to me and the president? Okay. Um, again, thinking on my feet, because that's what we do, I then say to the general, I said, look, could you please relay this request to the British government?

And he's like, yes. And credit to him, he did it straight away, which again now made me kind of like legal. So now it was authorized military intervention, um, so to speak. He then, he then followed through. He was absolutely— and is a brilliant man and follows— he's super, like, swept away and everything. I, I don't know if he— what he does now, if he's still in position, but dialed in, keyed in. As soon as I asked him to do that, he did it. And, um, and then my phone comes to life, and, and now I'm reporting to lots of different people from this moment on. So now I'm sending, I'm sending updates to him, the British High Commission, to UK, and to other people about what's actually going on. Um, the, the guys from the recce squadron who were there, they kind of worked out who I was speaking to. And I said, do you know who that was on the phone? They were like, yes, sir. And I went— they went, what do you need? I said, I need to be where the command post is. And they got on the radio, and then an armored vehicle picked me up from this building and took me to the hotel, which is now— now we're into the D2 Hotel where the terrorists have ended up running to their fallback positions, if you like.

So I then get into the hotel, walk in the foyer, and they've put position guys out, so the security's on the ball again, sending messages to me. These guys are swept, swept up in the bar area, or the— or is kind of— when I say command post, it's police inspectors with a phone from the unit, from this Recce Squadron elite unit. So I go there, make my introduction, they know who I am, and they're like, um— And as soon as I get there, I didn't know I was thirsty or fatigued, but as soon as I got to the bar and I saw all the drink and liquor there, and, and I was like, all of a sudden my body's like, you need to drink right now. So I went One minute, I just went to the bar, opened up a can of Red Bull, knocked that back, then got loads of water, cans of water, bottles of water, just chugged it down because I'd been hard charging.

Yeah.

I was absolutely soaking wet. And that, like, as soon as my body knew it could drink, it was like, have a drink, as in water and stimulants or whatever. Um, so knock that back and then sort of speak to the 2, uh, guys in charge, so to speak. Say, right, what's going on? They say— and this is the message I get word for word— is there's 4 terrorists on the 7th floor. We have an assault team on the floor below and a small team on the floor above them. Okay. And so I send that message to everyone, hang around for only a few minutes, and then I'm like— Bear in mind, and I should add this just to add the vibe, is the fire alarms going off in this hotel. So there's a wailing fire alarm going off all the time, so the noise is immense. So it's, it's, it's— I'm like, okay. So then say, hey, do you mind if I go up to the assault team? Because in my, in my mind, I'm like, well, I'm not doing anything here, uh, and I need to be where the action is. One, to get a grip of the situation, to see what's— one, for an information standpoint, and two, where I can best help.

So I say to the guys, do you mind if I go up with you to link in with the leader, SOG team? And they're like, no, please do. And again, it's funny because then they say, oh, can you send a message to the general letting us— letting them know that we're in charge here? And I knew it was like the— this was the, the good relationship. It was like, yeah, I'm going to send General your message that you're in charge because it makes you look good and everything, but I'm reporting to him. And they realized that They can't hide anymore. So, like, not that they wouldn't— I'm going to say— no, I'm not saying they were going to, but they're thinking, if we make any bad decisions or do anything and it's not to my satisfaction, the general, and by proxy the president, is going to find out. So it put me in a position of power as well. But I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm good. And as you go up to the stairs, they're posted sentries on every floor, again reinforcing that these guys know what they're doing. I get to the 6th floor, and it's kind of this weird angle where you come up the service stairs, and it's like a cups round.

And then the lead assault team was like a stack of about 6 guys stacked up. And as I turn up to the stack, who are— they are facing a staircase directly in front in an open area, open area in the staircase, and the terrorists are on this, on the floor above. Um, as I turn up, 2 hand grenades come down the stairs, explode. And then as soon as the hand grenades come down, we push back up just a little bit, just a few feet, so out of direct line of sight. They detonate, and then there's automatic gunfire rakes the area. The 2 terrorists, or the terrorists on the floor above, had positioned themselves where they could It allowed them to be in a position where they could see and post hand grenades into the— and fire guns into this killing zone in front of the elevators, but out of sight, and therefore without a shot going on. So it was a well-recognised, I should add that, position, even though the official report says they got pushed there by Kenyan forces. I think that's pretty hard to believe. Um, but anyway, so they're up there and it all— grenades go off, gunfire— and then look to the guys and say, do you think they saw the white dude turn up?

And then smile. And then they—

No.

And then, and then I add, well, welcome to the party, mzungu. And mzungu is a derogatory term which is used in East— Eastern and some parts of Southern Africa for people of European descent. In South Africa, it's Malungu, which is the Swahili word for the scum that you find floating on the water. So in essence, we're the white scum that came from the sea.

That's what you called yourself?

And I said, do you think— I go, welcome to the party, Mizungu. And they started laughing and they all started repeating, yeah, welcome to the party, Mizungu. And it's good because it's like, I don't— like I said in the book, I don't get upset. It's a really derogatory word. But ultimately, it's only a word, so therefore I choose not to get upset by it. But, um, it's a media camaraderie built. Yeah, straight away it's like, they know. And then they say, oh, are you an American? I was like, no, I'm British. And they're like, SAS? I'm like, yes. They're like, oh, that's awesome. So they knew who the SAS was, and it straight away was a good bonding session. Nothing bonds a group of blokes like a good grenade attack, and grenade and automatic gunfire attack. Really, like, anyway, so now we're all brothers from different mothers, and, um, as they say, and, uh, and we're all getting on. Uh, the, um, I lost my train of thought with my attempt at comedy, but, um, the— yeah, so I now turn to the team leader, and I'm like saying to— he's a big, big guy— and I said, hey, what's going on?

So I want to get an update from him. Same, same, but different. He's like, there's 4 terrorists on the floor above. But this time he adds, 2 of them are injured. One's really badly injured and one's not so bad. And then the other 2 are active.

Okay.

I didn't, I didn't, I didn't know how he knew that, and I didn't ask. So I was like, okay. Then I ask a golden question. Are there any civilians up there? No. Why is that important? Because for me, that changes this mission from hostage rescue to search and destroy. And, um, um, so I'm like, okay. So I report to people the situation. I say, so what's— so to the team now, what's your plan? He goes, well, when they come down the stairs, we're going to kill them. Is that it?

Yep.

Is that— yep, that's it. When the terrorists come down the stairs, we're going to kill them. Okay, yeah, that's a plan. And I smile, I'm like, okay, it's a plan. But in my mind, again, having a lot of experience operating at the very highest level, it's not an acceptable plan because I do not know what the terrorists are doing. I don't know, I don't know what's up It was a gym, but I didn't know what was up there. I didn't know if they had explosive material, if there was parts of the hotel in that thing where if they damaged it, it could destroy or start a fire that would be catastrophic to everyone in the hotel. So, my line is, we need to get this wrapped up. We need to push on. We need to solve this. We can't just wait. So, then it's, like, thinking about how we can do this. Uh, and then, so I'm working it, and, and I asked about snipers. Have you got snipers? They said yes. So I said, well, whereabouts are they? Well, they're not doing anything. Okay, well, let's get them up on the building across and see what they said.

So they go through the radio, hey, he wants to put snipers up. Everything I said is always— is well received. Put the snipers up. So it takes— everything takes a long, a long time because it's a process of information, people in position. So it's going to be about an hour before the snipers get up into position. And in the meantime, there's— I'm trying to just, like, display this— the main— the main— in that assault team was split into 3 teams. There's a group on the left who we, who we have no interaction with because it's all of that open area is now a killing zone.

Right.

So they're in there, and most of them are in the rooms. There's only 2 of them holding, holding, holding the corridor, so to speak. Then there's the corridor to our right, and we throughout the night we swap between the 2 positions. The, the majority, so 6 to 8 people, it's always 6 to 8 in this story, 6 to 8 are in this, the main, like looking straight at the stairs. And sometimes we'd just be able to scurry across, it's just a very short distance, 2 yards or so, to the next corridor. Um, and then because on the, on the main bit there's a little ledge so you could sit at the back and take your take your leg, rest your legs for a second or two, a minute or two. But every, every now and again when we tried to swap positions and I went into the one to look around, we— they could see us. So they'd take— so they'd either throw a grenade or open fire into the area. So that would be going on when I was in the other corridor. It's funny, and I, uh, I, I'll— this is the first— I think this is the first time I've said it.

Uh, it's in the, it's in the book, but it's good in case anyone, if, if they managed to retrieve any, you know, I doubt it would have come out by now for sure. But it's a funny thing for me was I was in the corridor, I was looking down the corridor, there was still a guy on each end of each line looking down, but I was looking down the corridor and for some reason the guy at the front of the stack just decided to let loose a load of rounds at the, at the stairs. He opens fire, so he's like, I jump about 5 foot into the air. I'm like, ah! And I, I just like, I think like in my mind I thought the terrorists had snuck down and I opened up and that gunfire was like— and I'd like jump. There was no— there's nothing cool about it at all. I was just like— And here, see what my face looked like. And I was like, jumped, and as I jump, I spin round Until I— and then they're just looking at me, they're just like looking at me smiling, and I burst, and then everyone burst laughing.

So they all burst out laughing, and I said, next time you want to start World War fucking 3, let me know about it, all right? And, and the guy, the big guy, um, like, like one of the alphas of the group, he was on his horns, he's just laughing, crying with laughter at me because I just like— And, uh, so that was that. And then, uh, anyway, snipers get up.

Um, how sure are you that these are the— I mean, are you guys thinking these are the last 4 terrorists?

This is— I'm just working on what we know. So they're just saying there's 4 terrorists. It's 4, like, I didn't question it very much that there's 4 terrorists on the, on the, on the top floor. Okay.

And there's no discussion of any terrorists anywhere else?

No discussion anywhere else. No one— like, that's all that's being said. And like, even when they said they're wounded, I'm like, I don't know how you know. I don't care. I'm like, don't know, don't care. Um, because so the snipers get up, then it comes on the radio, oh, we can see the terrorists moving around. They can see 2, which fits in if 2 of them are wounded, they're not moving, so they can see 2 terrorists moving around. I'm like, okay. I said— and then it's like, what, we're going to do a sniper-initiated assault?

Yeah.

And they're like, okay. And they go happy and they say— and then they reply back, we're going to do a sniper-initiated assault, which is kind of like the sniper shoots the guys and then we run up the stairs. And that's why I say, so snipers get hit and then we're gonna run up the stairs?

Yeah.

Okay. So music to me is a report. We're waiting, and then all of a sudden, like, snipers out of the shot. And then you hear the gunshots go off almost simultaneously. And the next thing we hear is— oh, sorry, next thing you know is a grenade coming down the stairs. Oh, sorry, sorry, rewind that. Shots. The next thing we hear is automatic gunfire coming from up the stairs, not at us though, but across where the snipers may have been, the building, the building across. So they're raking the area, firing at where the snipers could have been. I doubt they would have saw them, but they're just firing at the building across the street. Then we get a grenade down the stairs and automatic gunfire to tell us, basically, that was their way of saying, you tried to take us out with snipers, you failed, and we're still here. So, that's that.

The terrorists—

Oh, so they're, they're gone. So now, now what we're going to do? So we took— every now and again we're still getting grenade fire, and then say, have you got explosive method of entry? Which, using explosive to blow a hole through, uh, walls. So we say, yeah. Um, I said, well, why don't we blow a hole through the ceiling and then use grenades to— once we've got a hole above them, we can throw grenades down there or something. Do you carry grenades? Yes. Brilliant, let's, let's do it. They, they pass that message on, they're happy to do that. So now we, now we're going into that. So we've got to make the— they've got to make the charges and get them to the team above. Now the difference is that the team above, what I got told was it's the floor above, so I didn't question that. So I think it's a floor, but the team above is really the roof, and the difference between the roof and the floor can be several feet of concrete. Mm-hmm.

Wow.

So I didn't know this, but the charges go up again. This takes a while. Again, thinking ahead of things, I'm like, okay, I need to make sure everyone knows what— so I tell everyone who I'm informing to, this is what we're going to do. And it was very prudent, and we'll come on to that once we— once the detonations go off. So tell everyone we're going to do an explosive, uh, breach. We put the, uh, charges set, Detonation goes off, failed breach. So, failed breach, yeah, we're going to make some more charges and get through. Grenade comes down the stairs, automatic gunfire. Um, but why it was prudent to let everyone know is because the people who needed to know were doing explosive entry. But as soon as that explosion went off, all the world's media who were reporting on it— it was on the news that car bombs— they were then reported as car bombs were going off inside the complex. And it was a terrorist counterattack. So it was— the information was wrong, but the people who needed to know via me, they knew that was just— that was just white noise. It's not car— so they could then tell, whether it be families, friends, other governments, it's not car bombs, it's actually our strike force using explosives.

So that's that. Um, I then say, what's— what do the— what did the snipers see? And they're like, oh, the snipers, they're not there anymore. And it's like, what? Oh yeah, they tried the shot and they failed. Yeah, but they should be back up there. And they're like, oh. And I went, okay, tell them to get back up there, and if they see the terrorist, shoot, and they can report on it.

Holy shit.

But this is the— so this is 2 ways of looking at it. You could look at it— if, like, people could look at it from outside and go armchair worrying, going, oh, that's outrageous, blah blah blah. And, you know, but these guys were pro. The reason why they were pros is they didn't know that. But when I told them, they're like, of course. So there's no ego, there was no excuse, there's no lies. They were like learning from it.

They just didn't know.

And they were just like, of course, makes sense now. And it— so the way I view it was, was they were— I was just coaching them. Like, because it's like this, remember, this is the first time they've done this.

Mm-hmm.

And, and, and the American mentors weren't allowed to go into the complex. So the American mentors would be advising them normally, but they'd been restricted from going into the, um, into the complex. So that—

because—

so they kind of— so when I'm— there was no resistance and everything I was saying was— and I wasn't going, oh, you idiots. It was like, oh man. And they're like, why don't you do this? Like, and, and they were— it, it— like I say, it was, it was an absolute pleasure working with them because They were just learning on the job and they were receptive and there was no egos. And like, brilliant. So—

You don't know what you don't know.

Yeah. And they were going, okay. So the snipers went back up and then they're saying— and as soon as they got into position, they were like, the lights have turned off. So credit to Al-Shabaab, they turned the lights off. But what this had done, and I kind of— I don't know how I knew this, but it maybe it's just common sense to a certain point of What this is doing though is restricting the— so before we turn, before I turn up, they've got all movement of upstairs, they can shoot down whatever. Other in between, we shot out the glass that there was a mirror, so I shot the glass and some of the Kenyans chipped in. There's a big glass mirror and I worked out that that's how they could see us, so we shot the glass, big large glass mirror on our floor out. Uh, but now we've had snipers trying shoot at them. So through, through the glass bits. So now that's restricted the movement here. Now they can hear a charge above them. So now from having a lot of like real estate to move around in, now they've been put into this really small area, which will have an effect on your morale and your fighting ability eventually.

So it's all, all of this is just chipping away. Charges go up again, fails. Then this time it's failed. While they make a charge, take sledgehammers. So guys go up there with sledgehammers and start pounding, boom boom boom boom boom boom, just trying to, to breach through. So they're in between charges going off. Time's now pushing on, um, and my phone is about to die. Remember, I've been operating with my mobile phone all day. Um, Luckily it was fully charged when I turned up because it was plugged into the vehicle and stuff, so it's fully charged, but my phone's about to die. So then I have a thought, I'm like, okay, we've got a guy on it on the end of every line looking down the corridors. All right, to the team, look, right, let's clear these, let's clear all the corridors, let's clear all the rooms on the corridors. He's like, why? I goes, 2 reasons. There was 3, but I didn't tell him the other one. The first reason is it will free up a member of the stack so he doesn't have to look down the corridor. Second reason is I need— I desperately need an iPhone charger, so there's got to be one of these rooms somewhere.

The third reason, which I didn't tell him, it would give me a good look of how they do their room clearances. So, we set off and we start clearing the rooms, and 2 things. First thing is, on the first room we go to, there's a phone charger in there. So I'm like, yes, take my phone out, plug it in. And secondly is watching the guys clear the rooms. They're good. Yeah, they're not like perfect, but they're more than workable, and they're well trained, well versed at room combat, and they just need a little bit of direction here and there, but they're good. So I'm like, man, my confidence in these guys is really high. So we clear all the rooms. And the other thing I noticed in there is the minibars and the fruit and snacks. I then get to the, um, to the team leader and say, right, have you guys had anything to eat since you've been here? No, no, nothing's happened. All right, tell the guys, making sure we've got eyes on the threat, to get into these rooms and help yourselves to the, to the food and drink. And he's like, looks at me, went, oh, well, we can't really do that.

That's, that would not be classed as stealing. And I was like, that's credit to them. to the Kenyan police because there's allegations from the Westgate years before that the, the Kenyan army just looted everything and done it. But the Kenyan police were like, can we do that? Isn't that stealing? I was like, I'm telling you, I said, I have in effect overall command here. Go into the bars, do not touch anything other than food and drink, and if anything comes back to you tomorrow or the day after or whenever this ends, then tell them, are you— I ordered you to, you could do it. And like that, boom, everyone just bomb burst and everyone's grabbing food. Because again, for me, I've been on the move since half past 3. This is now getting into the early hours of the morning. So now I'm like going, I didn't really want to eat anything, but Red Bull was always the hot commodity and everyone went for the Red Bulls. And then, and then drinking, drinking fluids and everything. And Like just thinking about sustaining the troops because we don't know how long this is going to go on for.

So we do that, things are going on, sledgehammers are going, uh, then, um, we get the, uh, so when we get the, um, I'm having a mind dump, I'm getting one event mixed up on the other side, but let's go with it. And if people read the book saying, oh, he was He said this the other way around in the book. Is right now I can't, I can't, I have a, I'm having a bit of a mind dump on it. But, um, but we'll just carry on with the breaching. Get the good breach. They said good breach. I'm like, brilliant. Gonna attack with grenades? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a pause, goes on longer, longer. I'm like looking, going. Then eventually we hear grenade go off.

upstairs.

And I'm like, is that it? It's like, yeah. And then all of a sudden we get a grenade down this— our stairs and raking gunfire. And then this point, some of the failure I have to take because I just said to them, blow a hole through and assault with grenades. Now what I meant was blow a hole through, immediately after you get a good breach, throw a whole load of grenades down there and deal with the threat. But they did exactly what I said. I didn't tell them when to do it. They blew a hole, they eventually threw a grenade down there, and it was only one grenade. I didn't specify. So it's another lesson to everyone. If you, you know, whatever sort of role in leadership is, whatever you're thinking, make sure you articulate that well, because people will follow the, the instructions to the letter. And if your instructions aren't exact, then you won't get exact actions. So There's that. So that's the end of that. At about 5:30 or so in the morning— So yeah, the breach must have happened. So now we're getting right— so the breach must have happened. Failed breach— sorry, good breach.

And then around about 5:30, we get a message saying, oh, there's terrorists, 2 terrorists in the basement. So I report that. I'm not that worried about it because the terrorists— if I'm finding out there's terrorists in the basement, that means Other members of the assault group have found them and are dealing with them. My threat is up these stairs, so pass it on, and now I'm going to deal with the threat at hand. So yeah, so my thought is upstairs, and I'm kind of— I'm out of ideas now. So now it's the— well, it's around about 5:30. There's not first— not much time till first light. So my thought is maybe at first light they're going to try and break out. Um, and first light comes and it's fairly uneventful. And then, then, uh, it doesn't seem to be that long then. And since hearing that there's terrorists in the basement, we still get the occasional grenade and gunfire attack. And but like I say, we're kind of— I'm kind of out of ideas. Like I say, first light happens and then something significant happens. We then hear them praying. They're doing a lot—

You hear them praying?

Praying, loud call to pray. Now this is significant because we haven't heard them at all, all the way through the night. We haven't heard them talk. We were just— the only thing we've heard is the gunfire and the, uh, um, grenades going off. So now we can hear them. They're giving it what for with a call to prayer, some sort of prayer. So I turn around to the Kenyans around me and go, guys, get ready, it's coming. And the guy across on the corridor cross goes, how do you know? I'm like, because they're getting ready to meet their God. And, and then it's like— so at that time I'm number 2 in the stack, and the guy in front, he goes, okay, okay, boss, let's change, let's change. And I'm not bothered about this. I'm number 1 in the stack. I've got the I've got— at this point, I'm not even wearing my balaclava, it's just around my neck. And I'm just waiting, and I'm like, am I, am I scared? No. Am I apprehensive? Yes. Because I kind of know it's, it's like, now I'm pretty sure it's, it's kind of— it's going to come.

So it's just like, ah. And then, um, um, and then they stop praying. It goes on for a while, I should add.

How long?

And then they stop, and something again comes over me, and I raise them a Hail Mary. So I just say, Hail Mary, full— and I'm saying about this level, I'm like, Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. So then, and so I'm rolling off the Hail Mary, and there's no exaggeration in this for entertainment purposes or whatever, but now at the hour of our death— Ding, ding, ding. Ding, ding, 4 hand grenades come down the stairs. This is it, it's the final battle starts right on the end of the Hail Mary. So good, good, all 4 grenades coming down the stairs, all pushed back, like big explosions and stuff. Um, and then the, uh, um—

What happened?

Then we surge forward. Terrorist number 1, fast on his feet, he's already at the bottom of the stairs spraying with automatic gunfire. So I take aim immediately, like send 3 shots into his chest. But not only do I shoot, everyone's shot shooting. Kenyan's leaning over me, I'm sure left, right, left over my ear, over my shoulder, who knows. Huge weight of fire. But he's not going down. Remember, this is only— this is fractions of seconds. He doesn't— it doesn't go down. I immediately take aim up and whack him in the face, but it comes up, goes at the back of his ear. Drop. He drops. Number 2, not so fast on his feet. I've been thinking about this all through the night, and as he comes running down the stairs, we just shoot his legs away and he falls, and then sheer weight of gunfire kills him.

Um.

And then something really strange happens. They're all firing. I'm like, ceasefire, ceasefire, ceasefire! They all stop. And as soon as, like, they stop firing, all of the Kenyans run into the killing area. And, and the big guy shouts, you don't fuck with Kenya! And they all start cheering and dancing. And I was like, it's the wrong, uh, it's the wrong vocab for me, but I sprint past them. And I'm like, infil, infil, infil! And I'm like, because I think in my mind there's 2 more upstairs, we need to get up there. So they're like, oh shit, they all like tag on and then jump over the bodies and run up the stairs and then peel into the, into the, into the gym where there was no one else. It turns out when we come back downstairs, the, uh, the recce squadron boys are already prepping the bodies and taking, um, doing stuff, um. I'm like, I thought there were 2 wounded people up there. And they're like, no, no, like, no. Um, I thought it was 2 more. Oh no, no. And again, I remember it's English, not the first language, so I'm just putting it down to maybe a bit lost in translation.

But, um, but it turns out there was no wounded— no, there was only 2 terrorists up there. There's a 2— now there's 2 terrorists in the basement. But again, thinking on my feet, Like, I take mugshots of the— so I take photographs of the dead bodies, the faces, send that to my link to people saying, hey, who wants these? Everyone wants pictures of the dead. A lot of people say yes, so I send them straight away. They can start building up intelligence, take the photographs of the dead. I then turned to the team leader and said, okay, what's the score with the 2, um, with the people in the basement? He's like, yeah, we've got a We've got to go down there. We— well, sorry, yeah, we've got to go down there and get them. All right. And then he says, and first we've got to clear all the hotel as well. So I'm like, okay. So it seems like this assault group has now grown now that— now that threat's been neutralized. That's— there's a lot more people. But now we've got to clear 102 rooms to the basement.

Shit.

So we now start going to work on all— we've done the top floor, so now we're just going room to room. The same time, I get a message and they're saying, you need to go to room 316. There's an American citizen there and secure her. So I then peel off, say, I'm going to 316. Um, so I'll make a beeline for that, and I start heading down towards room 316 where the American, Millie Chapin, was located.

Who's here today? Shit, man.

There's elements of the story that you'll— when you read the book, there's more. There's some things that I've said that aren't in the book, and there's some things that I haven't said that are in the book as well. So there's a mix of— so when you buy the book, everyone, you're gonna get the— you're gonna get some— there'll be some other information and things. And, and also, this, this complement complements the book very well, this interview, but We'll talk about more— we'll talk more about that later.

They're gonna buy the book, but I guarantee you that this is one of the most descriptive accounts I've ever heard. And it's— wow. Wow. Those grenades come out right as you said, at the hour of our death, in the Hail Mary.

Yeah, just ding, ding, 4. That was it.

Shit.

You want to take a break?

Yeah.

Everything gets harder when you don't sleep. I've spent enough years running on a couple of hours on the ground or on a cot to know that a good night's rest sets you up for the entire day. That's why a few years back I switched to Helix. I sleep on their Midnight Luxe, and it's one of those things I didn't know I was missing Until I had it. What I like about Helix is it's not a one-size-fits-all. They've got over 20 different models, so whether you sleep hot, sleep on your side, or you've got a bad back, there's a mattress actually built for how you sleep. And you can't really get it wrong. Free shipping in the US, a 120-night sleep trial, and a limited lifetime warranty. If it's not the right fit, returns and exchanges are seamless. They call it the Happy with Helix Guarantee. There's a reason Helix is the most awarded mattress brand, tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired. I've tried a lot of different mattress brands, and there's a reason the bed in my house is a Helix. Go to helixsleep.com/SRS for 27% off sitewide, exclusive for listeners of the Sean Ryan Show.

That's helixsleep.com/SRS for 27% off sitewide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout. So they know we sent you. Looking for another way to support The Sean Ryan Show? Head to seanryanshow.com and check out the latest drops from Vigilance Elite. We just released new gear, including this beautiful moisture-wicking VE Performance hat, and SRS Campfire mugs, and you guessed it, Vigilance Elite gummy bears.

Oh, shit.

Every purchase directly supports the show and helps us continue bringing you independent conversations without compromise. Visit seanryanshow.com and grab yours today. Mailee Chapin, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

I'm really honored to be here.

I'm honored to have you, and I really, I really appreciate you making the trip. It's already a very special interview. And to have somebody else who was there that day, who was rescued, and another perspective is— it's just— it's—

It's always funny when people want to talk to me because I didn't do anything special that day. Right. People say, like, oh, we want to hear your perspective. And my perspective is about just sort of surviving. But the reason I, the reason I like to, to answer these questions when I get them or to talk to people if I can is because I wasn't the only person he saved. Do you know what I mean? Like, he—

Mm-hmm.

This is hard for— it's hard for me to even say. I'm in my first sentence, but he saved 700 people that day. Right. And so if I can come and show I'm just one of those 700, But I'm a real person with a real life and a real family. And he gave those things back to me. And then you multiply that by 700. I just— I want to do justice to being a tiny symbol of what he saved that day, to make that real for people. Do you know what I mean?

It's— it's indescribable. I mean, not only was it 700-plus people that day, It's the kids that they're going to have. It's the kids that their kids are going to have.

Yes.

I mean, there's an entire lineage of people that will experience life because he was there to leave that mission that day. People that will never even know him will, will experience life on Earth because he was there thousands of years from now.

I can't, like, I can't put into words what it's like to wake up, right? I got married, for example, after he saved my life. And to get to walk down the aisle and marry my now husband, because Christian gave that to me. Like, that's a gift that he gave me. I would not be here. I would not be alive. I would not have married my husband. And as you're saying, that continues generationally. And again, multiply by 700, and then multiply that outward. That ripple effect is— it's hard to even fathom. It's so powerful what he did. And he's just one man. He's just one man. It's, yeah, indescribable was a good way to put it.

So can you kind of— can you tell me what it was like in the building when it hit, when the first bomb went off?

Yeah, I can try. I use a lot of words and I still don't know that I can ever do this justice. I think that the first thing I would tell you is I didn't have any experience with anything like this. I had never been in a dangerous situation. I had never been near an explosion or even gunfire, really. And so I was, I was actually getting into bed in my hotel room. I was really jet-lagged, um, and I had been up since 3:30 that morning. And so I just figured I'd take a quick nap before the research team got back and we could debrief. And I crawled into bed. And this— the sound of this explosion, which I now know was the suicide bomber in the courtyard detonating his vest right outside my window, it was so loud. My ears were ringing, and I didn't even know that I was screaming. That's how loud it was. Like, it was so loud. It shook the building. It literally shook the bed. And I, I— I sort of leapt from the bed and just moved instinctively toward the noise. But I knew already. I mean, I knew, I think, in that moment that I was dead.

It was the scariest— I can't explain to you. I can't explain to you the way it shook the building and how dangerous that feels in that moment to have that happen so close by. And so I ran to the window and I My hands were shaking so much I couldn't wrench the curtains open to look down into the courtyard. And I finally got them, and it looked— it looked like a dystopian movie, like a scene from it. I remember, like, blinking my eyes over and over because I couldn't get my brain to acknowledge what I was seeing. I just kept thinking, like, I'm hallucinating. That can't be real. There's just smoke rolling through this courtyard. And blood spatter, just this spray of blood spatter. And I'm blinking, and I'm looking at this object lying on the pavement in this blood splatter. And my brain won't admit what it is. And I'm staring at it, and I'm staring at it. And finally, I see there's still a boot on the end of this leg. And it's a chunk of a human leg.

Oh my God.

And I just started sobbing. I, I, I knew in that moment— I didn't know that that was the suicide bomber's leg, but I knew a bomb had gone off, and I knew it was on purpose. And I knew that they— I knew they were coming to kill us. It was so— I knew it with every fiber of my being. I had just been talking to my driver that morning about the history of terrorist attacks in Nairobi and the motivation behind them and how they like for them to be these Very large events, often lasting many days. And so I, I knew immediately, oh, this is— he said, you know, we all go through our lives wondering when the next one will be. And I looked down in the courtyard and said, this is the next one. And so I was still standing there when the 2 gunmen— I heard cars start to explode, and car alarms are going off. And so You know, I, I know now so much information, but standing there, I didn't know if they had surrounded the building. I didn't know if they were inside. I knew some sort of bomb had gone off.

You don't know how many.

I didn't know exactly. I didn't know how many. I knew some sort of bomb had gone off. Then I knew cars were exploding and car alarms are screaming and the fire alarm starts in the building. And then I see these 2 gunmen walking through and I'm, I'm probably almost trying to convince myself, like, Maybe those aren't terrorists. Maybe they're here to help. But they were so— I don't— maybe the word would be resolute. They were just walking, right? They weren't running. They weren't trying to help anyone. They were walking through this blood splatter like it was nothing and coming toward the building. Toward you.

Yeah.

And I thought— what I thought was, I hope I have enough time to say goodbye to my family. That was it. Yeah.

So you were, what, 2 floors above exactly where the bomb went off?

Yeah, I was on the 3rd floor, so it was like just high enough that I could look sort of down— I mean, right at the, the initial site of the explosion through my window. And, uh, and you can see when you see the CCTV footage online, you can see that people run through in the immediate aftermath and then the gunman come through. Yeah.

And you could hear him shooting?

Yeah.

Could you hear the screaming?

Actually, at that point, I couldn't hear screaming. But throughout the ordeal, I heard, I heard screaming at different points, some of which actually, I think, was the terrorists when they came in the building and started working their way up the stairs.

How long were you in there?

17 hours.

17 hours?

Yeah. And it's a tough thing, right? Because it's certainly the longest 17 hours of my life. But 17 hours was a grace that was given to us. Like, that would have lasted days. That would have lasted days. That would have been just like the mall. It would have lasted for so, so much longer. It only lasted 17 hours, which was a gruesome amount of time for anyone who was in there, because someone came and did something about it. So it was long, but not nearly as long as it would have been.

So you didn't move rooms?

You didn't—

what, I mean, what was your— did the initial shock ever go away?

No, that's an interesting question. In a way it didn't. And there are interesting things that happen in retrospect where, you know, I was discussing with my now husband and he'd say, oh, you know, sometimes you'd go silent for an hour and that was really hard. I wouldn't have said that was possible, but if you look at the timestamps on my texts, it is. And I literally, I would go silent because I was literally on the floor shaking and just sobbing. And like, I didn't, You don't register the passage of time in the way that you do when you're living your real life. I had no idea how much time was passing. I literally was just— I mean, I was lying on the ground just waiting, just saying, like, let them kill me quickly. Let them kill me quickly. Let them kill me quickly. And, you know, you don't realize that you've done that for an hour. But that level of fear and adrenaline and terror in a way that redefined the word for me. Like, I didn't— I didn't know what terror meant until I was standing there in that room shaking, trying to dial my phone to just, like, send one last text to my parents.

It's like nothing I've ever felt before. And that level of terror and fear was with me the whole time. I mean, there were really brief moments where I thought maybe someone was coming to save us. And then you'd hear more grenades, more explosions, more gunfire. And you'd think— Maybe not. Hope felt— hope felt really dangerous. You almost don't want to believe you're going to be saved because then the gunshots start back up again, and it, it feels even more crushing to have to reckon with your own death again and again and again and again than to just accept it and wait.

Who was your first text?

My first— I had been texting with my dad right before the explosion, right before I was going to take this nap. And so he was the most recent text. So he was my first text. And I said, terrorist attack on the hotel. I love you. That was it, right? I wasn't dead yet. I figured I was going to be dead imminently. And I thought, I want you to know what's happening and that I love you. And I remember thinking, I hope when I'm dead, they take a little bit of comfort in the fact that that was my last thought. Like, I love you. That's my last— the last thing I said to them. And I truly believed in that moment, Sean, that those were the last texts I would ever send.

Mm-hmm.

Like, for the rest of my life. And then I texted my mom separately the same thing. And then I texted my now husband the same— the exact same words, terrorist attack on the hotel. I love you. And I'll never forget that moment. I just stared at the screen for a minute, and I thought, gosh, that sounds so empty. Like, I really— he's a really good man. He's a really good man. And I love him more than I can put into words for you. And I looked at that text and I thought, that's it? That's all I'll be able to say to him? And so I just typed out a couple more words. I said, More than anything, And I sent that off. I remember thinking, I hope he knows. Like, I hope when he gets that, he understands all of the gravity that I was trying to put into that. I hope he knows how much I wanted to marry him and just like how much he meant to me. I don't know. You don't think about trying to tell someone in a really fast text what they mean to you. Until you're standing there, hands shaking, waiting to die, and thinking, like, man, I hope that gets it across.

So that was what I sent. I thought about texting my little brother. He was 18 at the time. And I thought— I don't know. I just thought, I don't want him— I had just visited him for the holidays, and I just thought, let that be his last memory. You know, we were sitting around and playing games and laughing together. And I just thought that was a better last memory than some traumatizing, sad text from his sister right before she was murdered on the other side of the planet. So those were the 3 texts.

Damn.

Yeah. And then, um, you can't call 911, right? But I had been given a work sort of security number, so that was the next thing I did was called this work security line and basically asked them what I was supposed to do.

What did they say?

So I got put on the phone with this woman named Melissa, who I think this was probably the most unusual day in her career as well. But she was amazing. I don't know how she had these answers or what exactly the process was like for her, but she very quickly started giving me instructions, which was It was the best thing you could have done for me in that moment because I was literally— I mean, not literally, but I was frozen to the spot. I was standing in front of that window, phone in hands, shaking. I sent the 3 texts and that— I mean, that was it. I don't know. I couldn't come up with anything to do. I had no training. I had no experience with anything like this. I hadn't the faintest idea. You could have asked me right now, like, what's the best next thing to do? I still would tell you there are really different approaches to this. But she said, let's make it look like no one's in the room. So we're gonna close your curtains, we're gonna turn off your lights. I want you to lock your door with the, like, physical, you know, the— what's that called?

The door lock as well. And then I want you to barricade it with the heaviest things in your room that you can physically move. Barricade your door. So I said, okay. And suddenly it was this— there was a very slight comfort in someone else has some good ideas. Someone else can help me maybe live? I don't know, right? But I'm at least gonna try it. So I moved, like, some nightstands and some chairs and anything else, my bags, anything I could move to put in front of the door. And then she said, can you find a good hiding place? And so I'm sort of taking stock of this hotel room, and I look in the bathroom, and I see sort of, you know, like, there's your vanity, your sink, your mirror. and then there are these open shelves underneath. And I thought, it doesn't really look like a person could fit in that very bottom shelf, but I bet if I crushed my body in there, I bet I could fit. And I thought, hey, maybe that's a good hiding space because it doesn't look like someone would be there. So I went in the bathroom, locked the door lock.

You know those that you just push with a single finger and they're like, dink?

Mm-hmm.

And I remember, like, froze for another moment thinking, that's not going to keep out someone who has an AK-47. I just, I remember being like, that's the lock? And then actually, I, I did melt down for a moment. I sort of slid down the door, back to the door. And I remember my whole body going ice cold. And I, I thought, as nice as it is that she has these ideas, and I think it was that door lock moment that really made me think, This isn't going to work. These— a few suitcases and a door lock are never going to keep them out. They have explosives. Like, I just saw this in the courtyard. And I, I just sank down against the door and I was shivering. And I thought, one bullet between the eyes. Just one. Like, please, please, please, please. Just one bullet between the eyes. Because— sorry. Wow. Because if, if they take me, if they film me, if they assault me, my family's gonna have to watch that. And I'm still gonna die, right? Like, I'm gonna die one way or the other. But if they draw this out, My family will be tortured by that for the rest of their lives.

And so I'll never forget that moment of just, like, back against the door, sinking down onto the floor and thinking, like, please, please, please, just one bullet. One bullet between the eyes. I just— it's okay. Just let it be done and let it be quick. And then the woman on the phone, I think, had to kind of shout my name finally and say, like, go to that hiding place. Go to that hiding place. It's not over. Go to that hiding place. And so I pulled all the towels out from that shelf, and I, like, crushed my body. And I actually ended up with a huge bruise on my hip for many, many days afterward. But I don't remember— like, I don't remember hitting my hip hard enough to— to cause a bruise that large, but crushed myself into these shelves. And I pulled the towels back in. And there was this moment where I thought that, I mean, I don't— if you're in a hurry and you're trying to kill as many people as you can, I guess, and you're just blowing these doors down and spraying gunfire at anyone you see, maybe I'll live.

Like, maybe they really won't see me. And then a few minutes later thinking, I barricaded the door. So they know. They know someone's in here. And they're gonna look until they find me. And, like, this is not a foolproof hiding place.

Mm-hmm.

And so then I just started telling myself, don't scream. Don't scream when they walk in here. Don't scream. Don't scream. Don't scream. Because you're gonna be so scared. But— If you scream, they'll know exactly where you are. So just don't scream. And that more— that was one of those times where, like, so much more time passed than I realized. Almost an hour passed, I think, before I even gave any more updates to my family. And so then I was sitting out there listening to Christian tell it from his perspective, and I was crying because Oh, geez. Because he was, he was literally the difference between what I pictured happening and what actually happened. Like, they would have come into my room and they would have killed me. There is no question about that. You can't argue that. That's what they came to do. They came to systematically execute everyone in that complex. And that's what they were going to do. And then he gets in his car and, like, uses all of this training. He has this training about how to drive tactically and live through that and get to the destination, you know, quickly and effectively.

And he does that. And then he even says what he has to say to make sure he gets all the way to the hotel complex so that he can come save all of us. And it's like— It's almost incomprehensible to me. Who, who does that? But that's what he did. That's what he changed. He took the reality I was so sure was going to happen, and he, he saved us instead.

It's pretty incredible.

Yeah.

You know, even, even just, I don't know, the intuition to go.

Exactly.

Like, what I was like before we got into the incident, I was, I was like, man, we've been— I've been in lots of places. Yeah, I'm sure he's been in lots of places, probably much more than mine, than I have, where, where hotels, hospitals, schools— I mean, things get hit. Yeah, it can be a daily occurrence.

Sure.

And it's so often, I mean, you couldn't even begin to respond to them, and you don't respond to them all, and you don't respond to really much of any of them because they're not your people. And I hate to say it like that, but it's not your mission. It's not your people. But for him to— I mean, I get what he says. Oh, well, this is a semi-permissive environment. That still is— well, I mean, you heard the coincidences that led up to this. And I think it's pretty obvious there was a lead-up.

I always joke with him, so he knows this well, but he joined the military in September of 1992, and I was born in September of 1992. And so I always think of it like, in a way, like, though we didn't know it yet, our lives had already intersected all the way back then. And then 26 years later, he shows up in this hotel and saves me because he had spent 26 years training and building up all of this experience that, that he put to use that day. That, you know, that he says he feels like his whole life led up to that day. And I, I know you had said it to him, and you just said now, that, that they weren't his people. They weren't his comrades. They weren't his colleagues. Um, They weren't even his countrymen, largely. And to me, it's part of what makes the story so meaningful. So meaningful, right? Like, he didn't save us because we were British or this or that, anything. He saved us because— I— in my words, he couldn't bear to let evil win that day. That was it. He just— we were human beings. We were innocent human beings who were being systematically executed to make a point by this organization.

And he— I think he couldn't bear for that to happen. Yeah.

17 hours.

Yeah.

You are Thinking you're gonna die in any minute.

Yeah. Yeah.

Lots of things can go through people's heads. Life reviews, regrets.

Yeah.

All the stuff you just described.

I thought that—

What's gonna happen.

Yeah. I thought that would happen to me. That mostly. I would replay— there was this sort of almost like vision in my head over and over and over of what it would look like when I died, what it would sound like, what it would feel like, you know what, I— okay, will I still have consciousness for a few minutes after they shoot me? 2 minutes? Will I feel myself bleeding out? You know, what will that be like? Um, but it was 2 things. It was funny. I, I remember thinking, I thought I'd be braver. I remember thinking, I thought I'd be braver. I, I don't know why, but I thought I would have said, oh, you know, if I have to face death, I'll— I'll face it staunchly with a brave face. I don't know why I thought that about myself. And I can't tell you how not brave I felt in there, shaking and sobbing on the floor, and how helpless. That was part of what was so frustrating, was feeling like there was nothing I could do. I didn't have any training. I didn't have a weapon. I didn't have a plan. I didn't have anyone to call, like nothing.

And so I just remember feeling so, so helpless. And then thinking, I would've thought I'd review my life or, like, the happiest moments, or maybe I'd look back at old photos and cry.

Did you have any regrets?

No. And I didn't— it didn't feel that way either. The regret was, I'm so sad that I don't get to finish my life. Like, I'm only 26, and I love the man I'm engaged to, and I love my family, and I love my job. And I'm so sad So I have led such an amazing life and I've loved every minute of it. Like, I truly didn't feel like I had taken my life for granted or my relationships, but I was so sad, like devastated that I wouldn't get to go back to them. I remember sobbing thinking I really wanted to marry Paul. Like, I really, really wanted to marry him. And so it wasn't about like past regrets, it was about the future that I was gonna miss. And I was so sad to miss it.

Did you think about what happens after death?

I don't— I don't think so. I don't remember having a thought like that. I think it was, as much as I felt like I had accepted dying, I was so sad. I was really caught up in being sad. Sad to die. Sad to miss out on this future that I had been looking forward to living. And so I didn't— it was really— I was really caught up in sort of grieving the things I was gonna miss.

And you never hit acceptance?

I don't think I—

Never really hit, this is just—

I felt that it was inarguable. Like, it was— there was nothing I could do. I was going to die.

But that didn't bring a calmness over you?

No, no, definitely not. I wanted it to be quick. I was certain I was going to die. And I was certain there was nothing I could do about it. But it's a hard thing to accept, you know, death. And that's the human condition, right? Like, we want to fight, we want to live, we want to survive to see another day. And I wanted to see another day.

Did you hear gunfire Grenades? I mean, was it all 17 hours?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there would be short respites, especially toward the end. And you've heard it a bit from Christian's perspective. I didn't know what was happening, but toward the end, there would be these bursts of, like, explosions and gunfire, and then it'd go quiet for a minute or two, and then more— what I know now are grenades and gunfire. But in the beginning, it was such an assault on the senses. It was like The cars exploding, the fire alarms, or the car alarms, the fire alarm inside the building, including inside my room, right? So just wailing right above your head. The explosion that had been in the courtyard, the gunfire from the 2 terrorists who had split off around the back. It was— yeah, it's hard to put into words how much that overwhelms your senses. And, and it felt like it was coming from everywhere. From everywhere. I remember, I remember saying to my parents, like, There have to be dozens of these guys because it is— they— this gunfire is all around me and it never stops. Like, it never stops. So the beginning was just— it was just constant. And what I know now, too, that I didn't know then was I thought— I thought people had arrived at the scene and were engaging the terrorists.

So I thought the police were there or the Kenyan Special Forces were there long before anyone was actually engaging the terrorists. Because I could hear, like, gunfire and then gunfire from a different location. And so I thought maybe that was them trading gunfire. But actually, it was this group of 2 terrorists gunning people down, and this group of 2 terrorists gunning people down, and they had split off. And so I, I, I got a lot of different stories throughout the 17 hours. But at one point, there was a report that it wasn't terrorists, it was a bank robbery.

Hmm.

Um, yes, this is a big, a big story.

Where are you getting these reports from?

At the time, well, that actually went all the way through Google security. They were like, it's confirmed, this is a bank robbery, you're actually not in any danger. Um, and so that was the first time I came out of my, like, hiding place, and I was trying to tell myself, okay, okay, okay, okay, this is really good news, right? These aren't terrorists. They don't want anything to do with me. I mean, I understand I could die accidentally in the crossfire, but these are not people hunting you know, down all of the people in the hotel. And I was trying so hard to ignore the voice in the back of my head that was saying, why would a suicide bomber detonate as part of a bank robbery? Like, what? How? What was the plan there? Um, and then, you know, later these tweets went out that the property had been secured. And so my parents texted me, oh my gosh, okay, we've heard it's official, right? The property's been secured. And I I could still hear gunfire from multiple directions. And I was like, I can't imagine the property has been secured. I can still hear quite a lot of gunfire.

And then there were more explosions after that. And so I remember saying— I remember saying to the woman on the phone, I was crying and I was saying, Melissa, isn't anyone coming? Like, doesn't anyone care that this is happening to us? And it was such a naive thing to say, right? I was in another country. Nobody owed me anything, but it was hard for me to believe it. I think especially as an American, it was hard for me to believe that, like, no, no one was coming. And that was the case at that time. No one was coming. And I always think if you could If you could watch our lives unfolding side by side, you'd see Christian getting this call and getting in his car and, like, probably getting to the complex right as I'm sobbing, saying, isn't anyone gonna come? And he did. Like, someone did. And that—

I—

that literally made all of the difference. That made all the difference.

How did they approach your door? I mean, when— when it was—

Yeah.

And how did you answer? I mean, you're thinking— I mean, I would think that other than the bomb and probably the initial gunfire, to hear a knock at your door.

Yeah.

Who's not, not an American.

Yeah. Yeah, actually. So it was an interesting thing because the whole time, right, you're hearing all these sounds and your, your brain is working so hard to try to understand where are these people and how much danger am I in? And is it changing, right? Like, oh, are they getting closer? Am I in more danger? And then I got all of these different reports through the security team. And I talked to Marine Post 1 at one point. And so I had been told all kinds of things. Fill the bathtub with water because we're worried the whole building is going to catch fire and that might buy you a couple of minutes. I had been told Kenyan Special Forces is at your door literally right now. Go answer the door. They're here to save you. And there was no one, no one in the hallway, no one at the door, nothing. Um, I had been told, uh, obviously, like, the bank robbery. I had been told the, the property's been secured. Um, and so you just start to— you start to unravel, kind of. It's a hard thing to explain, but you don't know what to believe, right?

What's true? How safe am I? Um, but the one thing that had been reiterated to me over and over was, you don't leave your room. And you don't open your door for any— I don't care if they have an American accent. I don't care. You do not open your door unless they tell you who they are and who sent them, like, you know, what, what, what group they're with. Um, and so actually a few hours in, the— I could hear the card reader on my door. A card, a hotel key card went into the card reader. And so you can hear it, you know, ding, ding, ding. And they opened it and slammed into that lock. and like shook the door a few times, never said anything, closed it again, and went. And I could hear them do it at the next door. And I still to this day, Sean, I don't know who that was. I think about that still.

Oh my God.

I don't know who that was. That was like one of the first questions I asked Krishna. I was like, did you have a hotel key card? Who was coming through? And it could have been a Good Samaritan. I don't know. I don't know who that was. But I remember thinking, I remember thinking that I was going to die of a heart attack. and how ironic that was going to be because my heart was pounding so hard. I remember thinking, there's no way your heart can pound like this for very long before you die, I think. It felt like my heart was exploding out of my chest. And when I heard that, the card in the card reader and then the door against the deadbolt, I remember thinking that the fear was going to kill me, that I was gonna die. I was so scared. And then a little bit after that, Christian talked about how they— the terrorists fell back to that position in the gym. Well, they went up the stairs in the building, and they were screaming, like, in a language I don't understand. And so I could hear their voices. My room was very close to the stairs and the elevators.

And so I could hear their voices get louder and louder as they came up the stairs. And then there was this explosion, huge explosion of glass. Oh, my God. So the whole stairwell in that hotel was made of glass. It just— natural light could shine in onto the stairs all day long. And I— it was so loud. There was so much glass shattering. I remember thinking that was the windows. The windows in that stairwell just got shot out and they cascaded into tiny shards. And I, I started sobbing and I texted my family and said, they're on my floor. Like, I can hear them. They're here. They're on my floor.

Oh my gosh.

And so I knew. I mean, I knew, and I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt. And that was, again, it was one of those moments where, like, it had been, you know, I'm definitely gonna die. Oh no, the Kenyan Special Forces are at your door. Oh no, it's a bank robbery. Oh wait, no, you're gonna die. And like, so many times I had already believed I was gonna die and believed I was gonna be rescued and believed I was gonna die and believed I was gonna be rescued. And, and that was another one of those moments where it just You think— I remember thinking to myself, how naive. I can't believe there was a little part of me that thought I might make it out of this alive, because they are right there. They're in the stairwell. They're here. And it makes sense because they're gonna do what they came to do. They're gonna murder as many people as they can get to, even if there is some sort of response force here, because I have no idea who's on the ground. Um, they're gonna murder as many of us as they can, and Unfortunately, I'm on the 3rd floor.

So it looks like they made it here.

Wow.

And then, and then they kept going. They kept going up the stairs. I know now they were trying to make it to those fallback positions, that fallback position in the gym up on the very top floor. But they kept going and screaming and glass was shattering and I don't know. All I knew was they were getting closer, and now their voices are receding again above me, but they're in this building. Like, I can hear them upstairs.

Shit.

Yeah. Yeah. But then I did get a message. A message got to me that said— wow, this is hard to say. A message got to me that said, US and UK Special Forces are on the ground. And for me, through the, the ebbs and flows of everything emotionally I had been through up to that point, that, that was the turning point for me. That was the first moment that I thought— I'm going to be okay. I don't know, you don't hear a lot of stories of US and UK special forces showing up and just, like, turning around and going home, you know? That was the first moment I thought, those people might save us. Like, if they're here, if they came, we have a chance. We have a, like, a real chance. And I'll never forget. I'll never forget till the day that I die. I'll never forget seeing that text. And it's hard to explain what it's like to be on the far side of the world and to think like—

Sheesh.

Sorry. To think like they came for me. They came for me anyway. I'm not, I'm not on American soil and they don't know me. But they came for me. They're here to, like, to risk their lives for mine.

It's, it's—

I'll never be able to put into words what that feels like, that kind of gratitude. When you think, when you think you're on your own, when you think you're being left in a building to be murdered by terrorists, and you get a text that says, I know you're in Nairobi, but US and UK Special Forces are here. That was the turning point. I'll never, never be able to put into words the gratitude I felt. And he was there, and that was the turning point. I'm gonna need a second tissue. Okay. Sorry.

You're doing great.

It's tough. It's hard. You feel like you can't really put words to that kind of feeling, you know? I have tried and tried. But I, I'll never do that justice. I'll never do that justice.

I think you just did.

Trying. I think I had lived my whole life taking my safety for granted because I could. Because that's— because I had always been safe. And so it was almost unfathomable to be caught in this attack. And then it was even harder to believe that no one was coming. And then— and then they did. Someone came. And it just— I think if I had to try to explain it, I'd say— I stood between— I physically stood between the two extremes of, like, what humanity can be that day. There were literal strangers who wanted to murder me in cold blood, who I didn't know, and who would have done it without hesitating, and who were, like, quite literally willing to give their lives to do that, to kill me and a bunch of other strangers.

And then?

There was this man and the people who were helping him, who was also a complete stranger to me, who was willing to give his life to stop them. And so in the same day, I think I saw the absolute worst of what humanity can do and be. And the best. And that changes everything. It changes everything. Sorry.

It's okay.

I'm just gonna cruise through these. But yeah, eventually there was a— what actually started happening, he discussed meeting with some people in the lobby. And so what that was like for me was that my— you never think about the physical phones that are still in hotel rooms, right? But most hotel rooms have a phone both beside the bed and on the wall in the bathroom, almost always. The phone— I was in the bathroom, which was where I was told to sort of hide out. And so I was in the bathroom for basically all 17 hours. The only time I would leave the bathroom was when I would have to swap my phones. I had a work phone and a personal phone, both of which I was just, you know, using, uh, the whole time. But when I would have to charge one, the only outlet that would take my kind of plug was in the main bedroom. So I'd have to army crawl out there to try to stay below the level of the window, which was almost the whole far wall. Army crawl out there and, like, take one off the charger, put the next one on, and then army crawl back because they said to stay, stay below the level of the glass.

But I spent almost the whole time in the bathroom. And so I was in the bathroom and the physical phone started to ring, which was actually really startling to me and very distressing because I had spent— they tell you constantly, right? Don't make any noise. Don't make any noise. Don't draw any attention to yourself. And so when this phone started ringing, my initial desire was to make it stop. Like, I almost picked it up and hung it right up because I didn't want it to be making all of this noise to draw any attention to the room. But I called Marine Post 1 back and asked them, like, this phone is ringing. Do you want me to do something about that? Am I supposed to answer it? And I heard them have a discussion. And he came back on the phone and he said, yeah, if it rings again, answer it. And right then, I mean, literally the sentence came out of his mouth and the phone started ringing again. And I said, okay, I'm gonna answer it. Hang on. And I should clarify that I never spoke to my family members. I only texted with my family members.

I spoke to the security line from work and to Marine Post 1, and then when I answered this phone. But I didn't— I felt like if I talked to them, if I heard their voices, I was gonna break down and there would be no— like, I wouldn't be able to do anything else. So I was only texting them, and then I was talking to these different people who had information. So I said, okay, I'm gonna answer it. And I picked the physical phone up off the wall, and probably in a barely audible voice, you know, I was like, hello? And dead calm, dead calm American accent, you know, man comes across the line. He says, oh, hey, Mailee, how you doing? Um, you know, I'm down here in the front lobby, and we're checking in with everybody. Are you injured? Uh, do you need anything? And I think I just went silent. It was so strange to get this call on this physical phone. He's— this man I don't know says he's in the lobby. As far as I'm concerned, the lobby is imploding down. So I'm not really sure, does the lobby still exist?

Um, and like, yes, I need some— I would really like to leave, you know? What am I supposed to say? Um, I remember being really startled. He said he was my security liaison, and I said, I don't know what that is, but okay. Um, and he said, you're doing a great job. Which I remember thinking, I don't know how one does a good or bad job in this situation. I'm just sitting here in my room, you know, crossing my fingers and crying. And he said, you're— I wanted to let you know that your floor has been secured, but it is of the absolute, you know, utmost importance that you stay where you are. The building has not been secured, but like your floor is secure. And I probably continued to cry. I remember asking him to repeat himself. Can you say that again? Can you say that again? And he said, yeah, your floor has been secured. And he said he would call back with more updates. And so I hung it up. I texted my parents and my then-fiancé, now husband, and said, they said my floor has been secured. My husband responded immediately and was like, that's great news.

You know, it probably means that the battle is not taking place there, and they know there are no terrorists on your floor, so let's take that as good news. as a win for now. Um, and then when I got— I think there were 2 more calls in between, but the next big piece of information was he said, we're going to start the final assault. It's going to be loud and it's going to be long. And I just wanted to give you that heads up. But try to remember, it's a good thing. Like, we're going to neutralize the terrorists. And I hung up and there were a couple moments of that, like, near quiet again. And then that was when— The grenades just started going off so much above me. The— there had been like a, a pounding sound coming down from above me, just like repetitive, that I finally, when I met Christian, learned was them sledgehammering the ceiling, trying to get in to throw the grenades into the gym. Um, but yeah, the grenades and the gunfire, and that's when it started just being like exchanged over and over and over and over. And every time I thought it was done— It would start again.

And I— by then the— he was saying this too, but the sun was coming up. And I can't explain to you how strange it is. I mean, they had started the attack in broad daylight. And we had gone all through the night. So it had gone, you know, pitch black in the room. I remember the lights of the helicopter shining in at one point, but mostly pitch black all through the night. And then—

What?

The sun starts to come up the next morning, and the birds come back, and they're tweeting in the trees outside my window. And then they all scatter as these grenades start to explode again. And it was like— it was unreal in so many ways. It didn't feel real. There was something so violent going on. And I still didn't know if I was going to live or die. And I remember them saying to me, at this point, the biggest fear is that the whole building is going to come down on you guys, that the building will collapse onto you. So that's what we're most afraid of at this point. And of course, what I didn't know was there were still 2 terrorists in the basement. So, yeah, it was— even as I was living it, it was hard to process that it was really happening.

Who came and got you out of there?

Yeah. I was just— it was the most casual knock. I don't know what kind of knock I expected. Maybe, like, maybe it was a similar thought to Christian's, right? We don't want to freak out the victims inside these rooms. But it was just this really casual, like, almost light knock. I almost felt like I had imagined it. And I remember leaping off the floor. I was on the phone with the security line still from work. And it was the 3rd person because they change shift every 8 hours. And so I was on the phone with a 3rd person at that point. And I said, they're at my door, they're at my door. And I started running, running for the door, like throwing the door open to the bathroom. And like, I was so— I wanted nothing, nothing, nothing more than to get out of that hotel. And he, he was very adamant on the phone. He was, you know, urgently saying, hang on, hang on, you can't just open the door for anyone. Like, we can't verify who that is until they disclose, you know, who they are. So like, don't throw the door open.

And so, I'm sobbing, and I'm saying, like, okay, I'll try to ask them. And I'm ripping all the furniture away from the door that I had pushed in there. And I'm shaking. And he, you know, reiterates yet again, you can't just open the door, Mailee. Do you understand what I'm saying? And I was like, okay, okay, okay. Hey, can I— I said something to them about, you know, is it safe to open the door? Can I open the door? And they said, yes, Mailee, we're here to get you. We're here to take you home. We're here to take you out. Again, these calm American voices. We're here to get you out. It would be great if you could open the door. And he said one more time, they have to say who they're with. And I was like, okay, can you just— can you say who you're with? I don't even know how to ask that question, right? But that's what he said. Can you say who you're with? And I started to reach for the door handle to just throw it open. And as I— as I got my hand almost there, I was like, can you tell me who you're with?

And this gruff American voice came back from the other side of the door and he said— Who are you? Don't worry about it. And I remember my hand just freezing in midair. And then honestly, I was like, seems fine. And I hung up and threw the door open. I know it was not a good— Oh my gosh. It was not a good response. I think I was so desperate to leave, so desperate that I would've— yeah, it truly could have been a disastrous mistake. It was not a great moment of judgment, but luckily they were 2 American guys, button-down shirts, very calm. Uh, they asked if I was like physically injured. I said no. And they asked me a couple more times just to make sure they got— they asked if I had like sort of a little bag packed, which the security line had told me to do at one point. So I did have like a small bag with my passport. And they got that. And then they asked if I could walk. And I said, yeah, I could walk. And I tried to start stepping out into the hallway with them. And there was so much broken glass on the floor that I was literally slipping.

Like, I mean, my feet were— I had sneakers on, and my feet were going out from under me. I remember one of them having to, like, prop me up under his arm as they made it down the stairs. And I looked up at the window, and I thought—

Yeah.

They brought down all the windows in the staircase. There was so much blown-out glass. It's hard to even put it into words. I was talking to Christian about it last night. I was like, do you remember wading through broken glass? And he said, yeah, it was literally slippery because there was so much broken glass everywhere. And they had told me, the very first person I had spoken with on the security line, the very first time they thought I was getting out, which was about an hour in, She had said, when they take you out, don't look around. She was like, it's horrific. Don't look around. And so that's why I remember just, like, training my eyes on all of this broken glass on the stairs. And that was all I saw with this arm under me as they, like, half carried me down the steps and into the lobby. And they announced themselves to the force downstairs. I think they said, blue, blue, blue, or something like that. I remember jumping because he shouted, and I thought it meant something bad. But he was announcing himself. And then we came down into the lobby, and they sat me on a couch and said they had to go get the other American.

And I, I remember saying to them, are you sure it's safe? Are you sure it's safe? I can just sit here in the middle of the lobby on this couch? And they— another guy from the group, whatever group that was, stayed with me. And they said, yeah, we're sure it's safe. We're gonna go get the other American, and then we're gonna get you out of here. And I, as someone who often chooses the wrong words, I took out my phone. I wanted to let my family know, like, I think I'm gonna live. I think I'm being rescued. And I texted on the group chat, they got me, which was probably the worst words that I could possibly choose. So I said, they got me, put my phone away. And then a few minutes later, I sort of gasped and turned to the man next to me and was like, am I allowed to get out my phone? Because, you know, you're not supposed to reach in your bags or, like, do any sudden movements. And I was like, can I get my phone out one more time? And he said yes. And so I got it out and I was like, I'm so sorry.

The good guys, the good guys got me. And I think that was the moment that it hit me too, as I was typing that out, like— I'm out of there. I'm out of the room where I literally thought I would die, where I imagined bleeding out thousands of times. I'm out. I got out of there. And I think I'm gonna live. Like, the good guys got me. They're here. Like, it's like living inside of a superhero movie. where they really do, like, they show up and they save you and they take you out of what literally felt like hell, like the worst thing I had ever been in. And they took me and the other American out to an armored vehicle and drove us off the property. And it must have been, I don't know, you'd have to ask him, but not an hour later, maybe a little more than that, that Christian walked into my room. And it was empty.

Man.

Yeah.

Watching that video, he showed me the video of you and your mom.

Oh, yeah.

At the airport when you got home.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you can see, like, I think that video is really powerful to me because again, when you think about 700 people getting home to their families, 700 mothers sobbing as they get to hold their child again, who they truly believed they would never see again. And just as much, you think about the 22 mothers who lost their child that day, you know, before he could get there, before the good guys came to save us. It's— yeah, it really demonstrates That, that was life or death. Like, that was every second, that was life or death. He talks about, like, getting there as fast as he could. And every second that he saved on that drive and clearing the buildings saved someone's life.

When did you meet him for the first time?

I met him almost exactly a year later. So he saved me in January of 2019. I got married about halfway through that year. And then my husband and I met up with him at a hotel in Washington, D.C. And it was— To have had the worst experience of your life in a hotel, and then later that same year to be, like, sitting in a hotel room shaking, crying tears of, like, gratitude and joy because you get to meet the man who saved you is like— I don't know. Reality is stranger than fiction sometimes, I think. We knew of him, right? Obviously, I finally got out, and I finally get back to the US, and there are these stories on the internet where everyone's saying, there's this guy, Obi-Wan Nairobi. You know, he was our only hope. He came through in this, like, button-down and saved everyone. And there are these videos of him literally carrying wounded people out of the complex. And we didn't know— and he's wearing a balaclava, right? We didn't know anything about who this was. There are all these theories circulating online. And I remember seeing the Blackbeard patch that he had on that day.

And I ordered everything I could find with a Blackbeard patch on it. I had, like, a water bottle and a thermos and a patch and just anything I could find that had the Blackbeard patch. And I just, I was, it's, I think to me at that time, he was like this myth, right? He was this mythical person. I'm sorry, I'm still like tearing up. He was this mythical person who had come and saved us. And in a way, he almost wasn't real, right? Like, I don't know, there are these photos and these videos of this man doing this like superhuman thing and saving everyone and It didn't— I knew he was a real person, obviously. But to me, he was so much larger than— it was like Superman came and saved us, right? And now the whole internet is saying, like, oh, Superman saved you. And I'm like, well, that makes sense because he saved so many of us. And so he still was this, like, mythical figure in our lives. And I had these patches, and they felt like these little I don't know, talismans. I was obsessed with them. I would take this thermos everywhere and say, like, I don't know.

It was odd. It just, like, it felt like these little charms I could take around with me. Like, if I had one, I was safer because it made me feel almost connected to this mythical person. And so when we got the opportunity to meet him in real life, It was humbling to put my arms around him and think, like, somehow I never thought about the fact until that day, until I was hugging him in that room. I never thought about the fact that he was a real person, like, who also may have never made it home to his family that day, who also, like, everything in his life was on the line. Except he did it voluntarily. Like, I would have given anything, anything, anything to get out of that hotel, anything. And he chose to walk in. Like, and so it wasn't until I put my arms around him and, like, gave him this hug that I think that really hit home for me, that I thought, you're a person, you're a man, and you could have chosen not to save us. You could have never joined the military, right? And then I'd be dead if you never joined the military.

I'd be dead if you drove slower that day. I'd be dead if you didn't, you know, risk still going in alone. And so I can't— I can't explain how humbling it was to put my arms around him that day and, like, thank him.

What's the first thing you said to him?

The first thing I said was, thank you. I was sobbing. And then I handed him a letter. I had written him a letter. And in the letter, I said, I hope that you never forget that you didn't save me. You gave my parents back their daughter, my brother back his sister, my husband back his wife. And you did that 700 times. I just, like, I wanted him to know every day that there were real people, like, that I'm just one real person. I have a real life. I wake up every morning and I go live it. And there are people that I love that love me. And he gave us that gift. Like, he literally gave me the gift of my life. So, yeah, there I was again, trying to put words to something that I don't know that you can put words to that. Man.

Yeah. And you guys are still close today?

Yeah. Yeah, very. I try to— I don't know. It's a hard— it's a— you think about your life very differently when it's been given back to you.

Right.

For a second chance, a second time. And so I try to— I try to do what I can in a very different life from his to honor that gift that he gave me, to, like, put good back out in the world or try to help other people where I can. Because I wouldn't have had any of these days And I feel like that's, that's how I try to pay tribute to his legacy, to, like, what he gave me back.

And you wrote a book, Terrorist Attack Girl.

Yeah. Yeah.

And you came up with an app for PTSD.

Yeah. Yeah. Both of them.

What's the name of the app?

The app's called Trauma Brace. And they're both just efforts to give a lifeline to people who are suffering from PTSD. I didn't know what it really felt like until I went through it. I didn't know that civilians could have PTSD. But it's really dark. It's really lonely and ugly, and it's filled with so much guilt and shame. And I thought, I don't know that I've ever heard people describe it that way. So I wanted to say what that really looked like and how not proud of myself I was. Like, I had these bouts of rage for the first time in my life. I was not being very kind to the people in my life, and I wasn't sleeping. And I wanted to write about that so that people knew they weren't alone and that they could get better. And that's what the app is about. Like, if you don't have another option. Now you do. You have something that you can try. Because I think the worst feeling that I felt in all 17 hours was hopelessness. When that ice-cold feeling hits you and you think, there's nothing I can do, there is no hope left.

That is the worst feeling. And I think that can hit you afterward too. in, in those deep, dark moments of PTSD, you think, like, what's the point? I remember thinking, what's the point? And I think, I think if instead you can remind yourself that there's a light at the end of the tunnel, that, that no matter how dark it feels today, there's hope. That can change your life. And it can get you back to a point where it's not so dark. Like, you can crawl, climb, fight your way back to a place that doesn't feel so dark. And I just— I want everyone to know that's possible.

Good for you. Well, Maile, we're wrapping up your end here. But, um, you know, you had said something at breakfast that, um, I'd like you to reiterate here.

Sure.

You know that the event's been massively politicized.

Yeah.

The UK government is going after him. You heard what happened on the break.

Yeah.

They're trying to serve him.

Yeah.

They're trying to keep him from telling his story. They've treated him like shit.

Yeah.

You know, and, and you said something at breakfast that I, I'd just like you to reiterate.

I, I was trying to say— I don't know that I do it justice when I express it this way, but I was trying to say that if you're politicizing this story, if you're trying to use it for some agenda, I— Then you missed the whole point. You missed the whole point of what he did. Because Christian didn't go through that hotel opening doors and saying, are you this? Are you from this nation? Are you this religion? Do you look like that? He went through every door And saved every person because they were innocent. That was it. Because it was the humane thing to do, because it was good against evil. And that's what he did. He went through that hotel and he saved every person in the whole complex, all 700. And if you hear that story, And you twist it to be about some agenda or some story he was or wasn't trying to carry on, or you're mad about what he did, that's a personal insult to every single person he saved. And it, it hits me really hard when I hear people doing that because this is the most pure, kind, beautiful, human story there is.

He didn't know us. He didn't have to save us, but he did. And he didn't do it because of any political belief or agenda. He did it because it was the right thing to do. And that's the end of the story, period. So, I hope people let that story be what it is.

Thank you.

Yeah.

As you guys know, once upon a time I was a Navy SEAL, and then I contracted for CIA. We were hunting ISIS, Taliban, terrorist organizations. China was there, Russia was there, the Iranians were there, and everybody's kind of collecting on each other. One thing I learned is how important encryption in protecting your data is. That experience has just always made me extremely paranoid about what's being sucked out of my phone, what information are people getting. I wanted something that could protect everybody, and so we turned it into an application. We call it the Glacier app. We have secure DNS. Now, what's secure DNS? Well, very simply put, secure DNS keeps your phone from being exploited while you're browsing the internet. Just a couple of buttons, your phone's protected. You got yourself a burner number. Or more. You hit connect, done. You're protected. This is like the real James Bond shit. MI6, CIA-level stuff. Made in the US. theglacierapp.com, or just go on the App Store and look up the Glacier app. Take your privacy back. Download Glacier today. Do you ever wonder what it takes to make an episode of The Sean Ryan Show? In this exclusive studio tour, I'm taking you behind the scenes for an in-depth look at every part of the operation, from the editing room in the main studio to the spaces where we film range day content and more.

You'll see how the show comes together, meet some of the people behind it, and get a closer look at the work that happens off camera. When you become a paid member of the SRS Patreon community, you get more than just the podcast. Watch new episodes early alongside other members, Join monthly live shows with guest Q&As and submit questions just like you see on the show for upcoming guests on the Protector tier. You'll also unlock exclusive range day videos, behind-the-scenes content, and premium ambience videos that you're not going to find anywhere else. Join the Patreon community today and get access to the full experience. What was it like watching that?

I wasn't watching it.

You didn't watch it?

No, no, I, I, I, I went in and out and I was just like making phone calls and pacing as I do. Um, lot on my mind right now, so—

I can imagine. So I'm telling you, you're in great hands. Don't worry about it. Yeah, but, um, well, she crushed it.

Yeah, she's, she's a natural.

So, man, yeah, man, she loves you, man. Very thankful, very thankful. Lots of gratitude.

But yeah, she's good. She's a good one.

So, so let's talk about where we left off. Okay, you head down to room 316.

So So, just to put— just to do the recap. So, we've neutralized the terrorists on the 6th floor, and now we're on our way down to the lobby and then the basement, but we have to clear all the rooms. I get the message, hey, 3, can you check out 316? I can't remember the other room number, but was it where the other American was? And get her out. There was a kind of mess-up in communication, because what had happened was, Somewhere along the line where we've said we've neutralized the terrorist, to the security liaison who had, through the night, came out, who positioned themselves outside the foyer in their armored vehicle, the security liaison team got told that the building was clear and not— so they didn't, as far as I'm aware, didn't know that the basement— there was still terrorists in the basement. So they thought the whole building was clear, not—

The basement.

the real information was we just neutralized the terrorists on the top floor, on the 6th floor. So we move around, and it was only minutes. We, we, like, when they— when Milly— the, the guys had knocked on the door, escorted Milly out, it was just a gap of, like, minutes before we got there. Um, and when we got down to the, um— so we cleared— she wasn't there. We searched the room. Um, then we went to the other room, wasn't there. And then cleared the rest of the floor, got to the foyer. I saw the American security liaison guys were outside in the armored vehicles, because at that point, I think they'd been informed that, yeah, the building's not clear, there's stuff in the basement. So they're following their rules, like, okay, building not secure, get back into the armored vehicles. And that's all good. Um, but then we got the issue with the basement now. Um, you know, just—

I'm sorry, before we move on, I just want to— I'm still processing everything that she said. And, you know, I, I have never heard, um, I don't think I've ever heard somebody with an innocent civilian mindset that had been through something like that.

Hmm.

Everybody I've ever talked to that has been through an event like that is a mindset like you or like myself or somebody that's been through training to get them out of that or the thought process on That was really interesting to hear somebody as innocent as that and stuck in that kind of a situation who doesn't have an instinct or a mindset like an operator. And it's scary, man.

Yeah. I mean, it's bad enough for people when these people train and go on the range and say, I'm going to respond, and that's good for them. And it's one thing for them when they hear, like, real gunfire at them and explosives in an enclosed place without hearing protection, without all this. It's an ordeal. But in some ways, they're preparing— they're prepared for it, or they're preparing for it, so it doesn't hit as hard. But you imagine that with people who've got no interest in the military, not into guns, not into things, and the sheer calamity of this terrorist attack, or any terrorist attack, or traumatic event for that matter. when it hits, man, that's when you see real— you know, when we talk about post-traumatic stress disorder and effects, that's, that's when we need to like go, these— this is, this is gonna— people don't take that into consideration.

Yeah.

Like violent attack, whatever. It's like, it's combat times, times 100 because you're not prepared for it at all and don't anticipate any, like, physical violence, especially when it involves carnage, bombs and bullets and things like that, man, that hits people. That's devastating.

Yeah, I never, uh, I mean, it just instantaneously gave me a, uh, perspective that I just, I just never thought about it from, from a mind, uh, from, from, from that angle. You know, I never thought about it from that angle. And, um, and I'm not— I'm not, uh, saying I've been in situations like what you were just in by any means, but, uh, but I mean, I don't know, I just, uh, it just gave me a different perspective. And shit, man, I mean, she was terrified. She couldn't think, she couldn't move, she couldn't—

Yeah. But it's just— but she did a great job.

She did an amazing job.

Because what, what a common factor is in these sort of, uh, in this, what happened on this, is people get freaked out when they're on, when they're on their own, and they will sacrifice. And this is something for everyone to listen to if, God forbid, you're in this whole situation and you're not armed and you're just hiding, is People will sacrifice a safe hiding position for human company, and that's when they run into terrorists or bad guys. So, if you're in a relatively, what you think's a secure place, or do— so, she, she was— she plays it down and whatever. She, she did an amazing job because she, she didn't scream, shout, demand rescue, like, not follow orders and, like, get out and run out the hole. No, I'm just going to leave. I'm just going to leave, or whatever. She's— she did exactly what she was told to do, and that is calmness under pressure. So she plays it down. Oh, I was terrified. I was out of that. That's typical her, playing it all down. Um, but she did an amazing job because she did what she was supposed to do. She followed, followed, followed the, like, the instructions and remained cool.

And she did remain cool.

Yeah.

In her mind, she thinks she's going to die. She's processing it, whatever. but she's still cool. She's not like crying or whatever, being, being weak. Not saying crying is being weak, but what I'm saying is just like—

I know what you're saying.

Yeah, she was, she was, she was, she was solid. She's—

yeah.

And, and I think, like I said, she, she deserves a lot of credit for that because it's a really good perspective.

Uh, I mean, it's just, it was, uh, it really painted the picture of what You know, for lack of a better term, an everyday person experiences when that happens. And, um, and then to have the, you know, the complete opposite, you sitting right in the same, like, from one conversation to the very next, and like, it's just a total perspective change. And, and, um, really, like, yeah, I just wanted to acknowledge that. So To the basement we go.

Yeah, so we're in the, in the foyer. I meet up with the, um, the, the chief inspectors who are like in charge of the recce squadron, tell them. I said, hey, do you want photographs of the, uh, of the, of the dead? I'd already passed them on to, to other people, but they went, oh yes please, give them to, give them to them. Pass the 2 mugshots over. And then I'm like, hey, we need to, we need to get down the basement, we need to go. So we're gonna need at least, at least 6 people to get down there. So, they start giving the call out, hey, we need 6 guys. And I'm doing, hey, 6 guys, let's go, start stacking. And this is into where the— so, it's like the dining area that leads into the kitchen. The kitchen leads to, we call it the basement. Technically, it's not a basement. It's like the service area, service corridors from where you would deliver, where all supplies and laundry and things come and go. But, uh, but it kind of looks like a basement. But we—

I—

for just for ease of description, I call it the basement. And, um, and, and credit to the, to the, this— the 4 guys, the 4 guys who always put themselves— who were always like rotating in the, in the stack upstairs, the 4 guys who are, who are always burning in my memory. They were the 4 first 4 to stack up. I'm looking around and there's a lot of guys milling around. I jump in on number 5. I said, come on guys, we need 6, at least 6, we need one more. But as soon as I— it was kind of— I really like, like, made me feel good is when I stepped in, then everyone felt like a load of others fell in behind me and they're like, okay, I'm involved, let's go. And it's a good example of stepping up to be a leader. Um, and sometimes you don't— I'm kind of play things down or very humble, and I didn't realize that at that moment then how much effect I was having on the troops of like being there, making the decisions and pushing. And, and, uh, so when they all fell in behind me, I was like, well, that's good.

So, well, right, let's go. So we move off into the, into the dining area. There's like the bathrooms, first 2 guys peel off to clean, clear them. Then there's like an office or storeroom or something, 2 guys. So I'm number 1 again. And as we're heading to the kitchen, and I'm like, okay, here we go. Um, just short of the kitchen, there's like an elevated— there's like dead ground behind the counter. And I, I'd already done it in that day, and all the CQB experts would be like, oh, I don't know about this. But I call it the— in the, in the book, I call it the Patrick Swayze maneuver. Patrick Swayze maneuver. And it could be— I, on the edit, I removed the Neil McCauley because I didn't want to confuse it, but it was a Patrick Swayze or Neil McCauley from heat, that maneuver. And it's where I just jump up on the high ground and walk along scanning into the dead ground because it was just fast. And if anyone's there to shoot, I'm going to try and— I'm going to try and beat them to it. But it was just a way of, instead of like moving, slowing down their momentum.

I did it. So I was just— and they looked at me like I was a lunatic, but— I was like— I was like— and then jumped down, went to the, um, door to the, uh, kitchen Said to one of the guys, okay, open. And when I opened the door, that was the shock, because I cleared the door, cleared it from what I could from the outside, then made entry. This was different because what they say when there's a terrorist attack— run, hide, tell. And that's what most people do— run, hide, tell. If you're a chef in a 5-star hotel And a terrorist attack happens, you run, hide, tell. What you do not do is turn off all the hobs, turn off all the other ovens, and run, hide, tell. So all of this food, what's been going on in the kitchen, has been cooking off for 15 hours. So first factor is when they open the door, the heat pit was like, wow, it was like hot, like really like intense, insanely hot. Then there was everything had been— so there was low— I'm 5 foot 10, so it was just at the top of my head.

So there was low-lying, um, smoke, and then this pungent smell of all this food added to that with all like kitchen white, chrome, black. It was just an intensive place to start clearing through and, and, and potentially meet, uh, meet the terrorists. But we cleared through the kitchen and, um, uh, there was no one there, which led in down into the basement area. So the basement was like a rat run, like a rat— so there's open— there's like an open courtyard, and then connected to it was like a rat run, and then one of the runs ran all the way down. So I was number 1. I punched into the, uh, down the corridor, straight out, and I went to go left with one other And I was— and then there was like a delivery office, and I went and cleared into the delivery office with another guy at the same time. So when— as we're moving— sorry, as we're moving— and then 3 others within the corridor. As we're moving down the corridor, a terrorist stepped out around the corner and like fired a long burst of automatic fire. Miraculously, it didn't hit any of the 3 operators.

They spun around, the terrorists went behind cover, fired a quick volley, and then ran back to the, uh, to the entry point. I was, I was in the, um, office with one of the, uh, there was a bit of an exchange of, like, loose exchange, guys firing, and then I could hear the terrorists firing because he was just— because it was on automatic. And I leaned out of the, um, office, saw the muzzle flash, and just like Um, sent 5 rounds, um, just to the left of the muzzle flash, and then went in. Didn't know at that time that I'd hit him or not, but it seemed to me like, okay, that makes sense. At that point, after the shot, then guys come out of the entry point, which was the indication because they'd seen what happened. So they'd seen me hit him. So I'm just like, I'm not sure if I did. So they run past me and they're like, oh, sorry. So then me and the other guy tag on behind, we go into the courtyard and then to go loop right down to the other, into the other, the court, like parallel corridor.

And it's like a rat run. As we run into the other corridor, so there's about this, uh, 4 plus, like me plus 3, so that's 4. As we run into the corridor, we move a bit further down, and then all of a sudden a grenade comes, lands at our feet, detonates.

Shit.

And when I say at our feet, it's about the distance between me to you away. detonates, none of us pick anything up from it, and then there's a burst of automatic fire in this little funnel, and none of us get hit.

Nothing?

And it's just like—

No scrap, nothing?

Nothing. It's like, nothing, no shrapnel. He's firing a burst of automatic fire, and we're kind of— not massed together, but where there's not much room. The width, incidentally, is about the width of this platform. So, what's that, about— 5 yards or something. Yeah, like the width. Yeah, about 5 yards.

6, 7 feet maybe.

Yeah, yeah, but yeah, 7 feet. So it's that sort of basement type feel to it. No, no, none of us pick anything up, so we quickly pushed— when we say pushed to the outside back in the courtyard, this is only again 2 or 3 feet. So we push out and then there's an exchange of fire. The terrorists positioned himself behind these glass doors, and he'd left a gap. And his MO was he could post— send a grenade through it and fire through the gap. But this glass could stop 5.56 bullets, and he knew it. And the reason why I know that he knew that I know it could stop the bullets is because when we'd fire, it hit the glass, and he was behind it going like that.

Are you serious?

Bearing in mind it's a 2-way range, so we weren't hanging around there looking and firing. It was just quick, quick fire, and it went, and it went on for, for a while. When I say a while, it went pretty like— but it's going. We're trying to— in hindsight now, I know that sheer weight of fire would have compromised that glass, but like I said, wasn't too sure, and it was a 2-way range. So again, every time we're exposing, we're putting ourselves out. So it was just a quick shot, shot, and falling. Um, recce squad guys were firing, I was firing around again, pushing back, trying to get information about what's going on. Um, and then at some point they bring down a shotgun and fire some CS rounds down the corridor. I didn't know they did that. I said, what are you doing firing the shotgun? And they went, oh, we're trying to— I'm trying to breach it. And I was like, I don't understand that. And then my eyes were streaming and I thought, um— Oh, I need to add a bit of information that I've missed out. When we breach into the corridor, it's another unusual operating environment, because the— in the corridor, all the, all the lights have been compromised by grenade detonation.

So all the lights were out, and the only ambient light was from the courtyard. And all the pipes overhead had been compromised, so hot water was pouring from the ceiling. So when I breached into the corridor, it— and because it was hot water, there was steam coming off from the floor. So this ankle-deep water of hot water coming on, burning the top of my head as it was coming down. They all had helmets on still, and that was like burning my head as I was into the corridor. So again, it's an unusual operating area. But back down to— we're having this volley, but I, I didn't know that they were firing CS rounds, and my eyes started screaming, streaming, and I just thought, oh, maybe it's chlorinated water. So I just thought that was chlorine, but it was—

CS gas.

And I, I kind of, because the fact that they didn't put anything over their mouths. I think maybe he didn't know it was the CS rounds, but it was fine. But then we're like, hey, we've got to get through that. And then, then it came up in conversation that they had an M72 LAW up in the vehicles. And I said— and I was joking, saying, go and get the bazooka. And because I was in there like laughing, and I was— and I went, you know, the LAW, go and get a bazooka. And, uh, and they went— because I was like, yeah, let's get this down and just fire that down in the— down the corridor. Not sure distance would have been armed, or it could have detonated gas or whatever, but I was like, hey, just bring it. My point to them was, bring it down, if we need it, we'll use it. So they went to get it. As, as the bazooka turned up, um, there's a bit of it one of the Kenyans shot, and he went, he's hit, he's hit! So it compromised the glass. Uh, terrorists went— But the same thing again, I was right on the edge.

And I went to step out, but everyone just ran out and just fired. As it was, the terrorists had fallen behind a lot of COVID so everyone— they were firing pretty much into nothing, as in there was— they couldn't see them, everyone's firing. So I was like, I couldn't step out because I was like— but the same thing happened. I was like, okay, stop firing, and they all started singing and dancing. And I was like, come on, let's go. So I went down the corridor again, um, couldn't see where where the terrorist— because he's done man cover. Credit to him. Next thing, grenade comes up, gets flown over some boxes, lands not far from us. He fires a burst of automatic fire, but none of it is into the roof. That detonates. We don't get hit, but I go, right, let's come on. So we go back out. I said, 2 men stay here, cover it, even though they can't see him, and then we move back round. As I moved past the guys who were holding the entry point, I was like, I was now, I was about, I was number 5 in the stack, not about, I was number 5.

And as we come around, we see the blood on the, on the wall where, um, I'd hit the guy, like when I aimed left of the, um, as I'm looking at it, left of the muzzle flash.

Shot through the wall.

So I'm like, shot, bup bup, and there was like, there was blood and splatter away, hit the wall, like pushed back or fell against the wall and slid down it. And then as we got around, Again, there was a— everyone's on torchlight now and weapon lights, and, um, and they're moving. And then there was like, um, and all I got then, I had the magic words, they're dead, they're dead. Then, and the, the 2 guys had like bled out, like they both like bled out or died, uh, the one, uh, and then I was just saying, make sure, make sure they're dead. Just, hey, don't assume it, make sure they're dead. Um, because it might be risk or whatever. So just a Kenyan, um, recce squad guy just made sure they were dead. And, um, as in checked that they were still alive— sorry, checked that they weren't still alive. So they made sure. I said, oh, just walk away from them. Are they, are they dead? And I said, but bear in mind risk of suicide, um, detonations. And they just go, yeah. And then, and then so that, that's that. Went, all right, came over, clear and secure.

So I get my phone out to take mug shots, and the guys are literally pulling me away. They're going— and I goes, hey, I need to get mug shots for the— for everyone. So I'm taking the mug shots of these 2 guys who've been taken down, and they're like pulling me. And then that's— so that's, um, clear and secure. By the time we get to the— to the, uh, foyer, which being conservative, 3 minutes, by the time we get back there, the whole of the, uh, command element or entourage of the Kenyan police is already there. And we'll just wait and, um, turn to us and say, okay, they say something in Swahili, then they say in English, we just want to thank, um, Mr. Chris, who's from the British SAS. We want to thank him, thank him for everything he did for us tonight, or everything he did last night and led us. And without him, it wouldn't have been possible. All the good— giving me a chuck up, and which I was Surprised it would happen, but they were like, thank you. And they said, oh, do you want— and then the boss man was like, do you want to, do you want to say anything?

I turned to all the guys and went, it's been an absolute honor working with you guys throughout the night, but don't ever forget what we all did for Kenya today. And with that, they all cheered, and then they got in their vehicles and drove off. Meanwhile, I had— there was a, uh, like, the manager of the hotel had a list of papers, and all these people are still unaccounted for. Can you go and find them? So I took the list, and then I back-cleared the hotel. So I went up to the top floor, just went in every corridor. I didn't go in every room. I was just in the corridors going, security forces, the building is secure. If you're hiding, come out. No one came out, but I was just like going, going through. And the problem with that, what, what happens there in these incidents is Someone— terrorist attack happens or incident happens, they phone their wife or husband and say, oh, this terrorist attack happened, and then they escape. So, the wife, husband, next of kin tells the authorities they're in the hotel. They escape, then tell the husband, oh, I've got out.

But then said family then forgets to tell the authorities that they're out. So, that was why there was— they thought there was a lot more people still in the hotel. Um, and there were some people still hiding that were discovered, in some cases, days later. Um, but, um, but I did the back clear. And then when the, the Kenyan, uh, police turned up and the, the US FBI turned up to help with the investigation, I then went round as, like, a scene of crimes officer, saying, okay, this is— went through each, put, like, oh, the terrorist at the top, okay, he died here, he was coming down here, he got shot from over here. by this. This is why we shot him. So I went through all the legal stuff with them about how and why they were— where they were all shot. And went— and then in the basement, they kind of didn't want to get their feet wet, so they got— I just give them an outline of what happened, and they were, they were happy with that. And then I went home.

Man.

And then, and then I, I hang around for a bit. Hang— that came out really Geordie. Hung run for— run for a bit. I hung around for a bit. And I met, like, the owner or owners of the hotel and their staff, and they were very helpful. And some friendly faces turned up, talked to them. And then eventually, so it's coming up over past lunchtime now on the 16th, I then say, right, there's nothing more I can do here. No one— and checked with FBI and other people, don't need me anymore.

No.

Okay. And I just walked out. up back to where I'd parked my car, my truck, and hopefully it would still be there. And miraculously, it still was. That's— that was on my mind. And but one of the— another touching moment was as I was walking out. Incidentally, just before this moment, I was thinking, may God bless you many times this day. I was thinking of those words.

You already thought about that.

And as I was coming to the gatehouse, there was a, a young Kenyan police officer And he came up and he grabbed my arm and he went, sir, I would just want to thank you. And I was like, yeah? And he was like, I, I saw that you were here yesterday and you were here till the very end. You were here for Kenya. Most people, they come— most white, most white, white— he said, most white men, they turn up, rescue their family, rescue their friends, and then go home and leave, leave us to deal with it. But you were here from the start. You're here till the finish. You were here for Kenya. Thank you. And I was like, thanks, man. I goes, I'll probably have a beer tonight. And then, um, but it was good that I wasn't— what, what, why that hit hard was this was no— it wasn't a diplomat, it wasn't an officer. This was a grunt who was still was like, thank you for what you did for Kenya. And, uh, and I, I got in my truck Drove home and had a cup of tea.

Better cup of tea.

Yeah. Uh, yeah, it was interesting when I got home. It was just, um, got home, took off my clothes and stuff, had a shower, and then I wore like a kikoi, which is like a Kenyan East African, like, basically like a sarong, and, um, made a cup of tea, sat on the sofa And then put music on, and the song that came on was Searching by INXS. And again, it's, it's a song that I'm a big INXS fan, but I'd never really heard that song. But it was the first song that came on, and I was like, um, and then at the same time I had the TV on and it was images of me on Sky News. pulling, pulling people out of the hotel. And it kind of hit hard then. It's like, it was like, like kind of emotional at that moment. And then, um, yeah, and that's the end of that.

33 hours.

22.

33 hours awake, right?

Oh yeah, yeah. And I didn't sleep that night. I didn't sleep. I thought— I went to bed a few hours later to try and sleep, and my mind was just like And of course, by the time I woke up, or like not woke up, I maybe dozed, but I didn't really sleep. I looked at my phone and it was still like, this is now like 5 o'clock in the afternoon, and there's like 100 messages, whatever. Everyone's just like messaging and like, and then, um, yeah, uh, went for, uh, dinner with some friends that night.

You went to dinner?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some nice pasta, nice Italian restaurant. And then—

Who'd you go to dinner with?

Just some friends.

So you just went to dinner?

Yeah.

After—

Yeah.

22 hours saving 700-plus people, killed 4 terrorists.

Yep.

2 died in a suicide bombing. Yeah, let an entire—

I mean, what am I supposed to do? I'm just like, when? So when?

So I don't know. I don't know anybody that's been through that.

Beef carpaccio for starters, and then some puttanesca for my main.

And then what was the dinner conversation like?

I was, uh, just talking about that stuff. At that, at that conversation, I did get a phone call from the military liaison officer to the defense secretary. Minister of Defense in UK. He said, can you take a call? And the Minister of Defense, um, in the UK called and just said, just well done for what you did, blah blah blah. But he got his knuckles rapped apparently for that. He was, he was just flying by wire sort of thing. And no one in, uh, but he just said, oh, well done for what you did, and thanks for saving 700 people. And that was the first and last time anyone from the British government ever They said anything to me.

That's it.

Other than like now saying, we're gonna, we're gonna— now they just want to ruin my life, but we'll get onto this in a moment.

Did these people at dinner know what you just did?

Yes.

Yeah, they did.

Yeah, yeah, they were friends of mine. So, gotcha. So they just, they just arrived in country in response. So, um, yeah, so they— we talked about that and talked about some stuff. And then, uh, yeah. And, uh, how do you process that? Well, this is— so then a few days later, so this was on the— so this is the Wednesday, and then on the Friday I get a phone call from the doctor saying, is he hearing all right? And I said, yeah, I think so. And he's going, well, actually, how would you know if it's all right? He goes, you need to get back, we need to do an emergency treatment. we need to check your ears and then maybe do an emergency treatment because you've just had sustained gunfire and the grenade explosions going off with our ear protection in close quarters. So I then got on a flight to, um, to the UK. And then on the Sunday— I got that on the— got there on the Sunday, so that was a Friday. I flew on the Saturday, got into London on the, on the Monday, and then went straight to Birmingham. where the hospital is, and the consultant there checked my ears and was like, yeah, you've— one ear took a huge kicking.

But luckily, they've got— it's developed quite a lot now. I don't know where it is, but there's a treatment where if you have any hearing damage, if they catch it within a certain time, they can inject it with steroids and your hearing is repaired. but it's only got a— it's got a very short timeline to do this, and it was still relatively experimental. So she then took a— sort of stick a, like, a spinal needle through my eardrum and injected my ear with steroids, which was not pleasant. And then, um, but part of the thing with that was that— so that was on the Sunday evening. I laid down on the— and there was the whole room spins because it's knocked all your balance off. And I was like, No dignity. I just laid on the floor trying to stop the room from spinning. And then that's when it all hit me. Well, I hadn't really slept until that moment, and then I just fell straight asleep in this deep sleep. And the, and the consultant, she said she was looking at me sleeping on the floor, and she said it was really like haunting because I was like whimpering and jerking.

Like, I was supposed to look like a dog sleeping. and dreaming. And, um, uh, so there's that. And the other thing I said to the doctor, I said, doctor, this is kind of embarrassing, but I keep bursting into tears. And I said, I'm not, I'm not even thinking about anything. I'm not— I could be listening to music or driving and nothing's happening. I'm not thinking about the incident. I'm not thinking about anything traumatic. And all of a sudden, I just can't help but just burst into tears. And he, he said, oh, that's something to do with like adrenaline dumping and He goes, you were just running, your body just must have been pushing all that out. It stopped now, but it went on for quite a while after the incident.

How long?

I, I would say about 3 months.

3 months.

But, but I wasn't all right after the incident, and I, I was really like suffering. But you know, I needed— you get paid extra for being overseas, and I needed the money, so I didn't say anything to anyone. So I just knuckled on. And, um, and one of the— and this is no criticism to my friend. So my friend who was like my sergeant major at the time, and I— it was like one of my peers, um, he was back in UK and he called me one day. And this is like a few, few months into it. And he goes, look, look, Chris, I've known you for— I've known you for years, so I know you're all right, but I've got to do these checks. Are you— are you like Are you all right? Are you suffering? Are you doing all right? And I was like, yeah, mate, I'm, I'm good, just, just plodding along. The reality of it is I was like thinking to myself, I wanted to say I need help, I, I'm dying here, I need, I need help. And, um, and I think the moral of this is, like I say, this is no— my friend who called, there's no, there's nothing against him at all because I would have done the same if it was the other way around.

But from that, what I've learned from that is if you are— whether it be, whether it be as a parent or as a friend— when you ask if someone's all right, make sure you can see their face. Because I, I wager that if he'd saw my face, especially if he'd been in person, he would have went, you're not all right, you need to come home. But I was just like, yeah, I'll just, I'll just soldier on. So Yeah, but that's what a lot of people do. So, shit, man.

From a stranger on the side of the road saying God bless you many times today to— I mean, a full-on terrorist attack by Al-Shabaab.

I always consider myself unlucky.

700 people. Unexplainable how that grenade and those shots didn't kill you or anybody, or even injure anybody around you. No shrapnel wounds, nothing.

No. So yeah, but from— may God bless you many times this day. Everything was perfect. The timing, even if something was just off sync, it would have changed the whole day. But everything seemed to be in my favor.

So yeah. What's it like seeing that footage now?

Yeah, I mean, it, it was— there was a lot more of it. I, I captured some of it People were sending me like days after, but with— we're very— not long after the incident, it was getting removed and removed and removed. People do not want it. This incident is quite a hot potato, and we'll get into this, why, you know, some of the theories why they've got such a— such hatred of it and why they do not want this story to come out. It's out. I mean, I say it as if it's a secret, and they treat it like it's a secret. The, the British government think it's a super secret operation that no one ever heard of. And it was on all the front pages of all the newspapers and everything, and everything everywhere, everywhere. But they, um, they, they just don't want this. And it's not— they just don't want this story. The story's out. This is just my version of the story. That's what's crazy about it. All the information is kind of out there, just not the, the real information, the, the detail, the real information, the true story. is in this book, and it's my, my story on an unsanctioned mission.

It wasn't— it was me chipping in. It wasn't a— it wasn't a military operation. It wasn't— and let me get this, let me get this point, and we'll address this in a bit. I have never been on any podcast or any interview and talked about my service in the SAS.

Never have.

and I have no intention to. I only talk— and the only reason— and if I— if Kenya had not happened, I wouldn't be on social media trying to put— posting pictures or whatever, or trying to make a name for myself, because that's not me. The only— the reason why I'm on social media is because this, this kind of forced me into that. This pushed me into the public. So I don't talk about SAS operations I don't talk about anything and never will talk about, at this point, never will talk about any SAS operations. I haven't even talked about selection, like, in which I— which is fine, but because I think it's not my story to tell. But this is my story to tell, and the whole world saw it. But it doesn't— it, it doesn't sit well with certain people and the stat— you could say the establishment.

Why? Why doesn't it sit well?

Well, there's a—

I mean, they had one of their own.

Yeah.

Save 700 people.

Right. So here's the thing.

Take the Kenyan Special Forces under their wing.

Yeah.

Well, to help them save the day.

There's a lot of strands to this.

Kenya's saying thank you.

Yeah.

Or at least the people that you worked with. Yeah. And the, the, the, the, the police chief.

I met someone from the from the DRC.

Secretary of Defense or whatever the equivalent in the UK is thanking you.

And then I met someone from the, um, DRC a few months back, the Democratic Republic of the Congo. And he, he met me, obviously he's of a senior position. When he met me in Washington, DC, he started crying. and was like, you are the most famous white man in Africa. And I was like, what? And he FaceTimed his mother and she was on the— he goes, can I, can I talk to my mother? And when he put it there and she started crying, it went— because it's like that, that, that guy said to me, he goes, you, you step— you didn't see color, you didn't see anything, you just— I just helped the innocent. And I didn't go, I'm just here for my white friends and family, and then everyone else can go fuck themselves. Didn't matter. I'm not here for the— I'm here for everyone. Christian, Muslim, everyone. I'm just here to save people. If you're innocent, I'm here to help. If you're not, you better watch out. But, and that's why a lot of people in Africa, They, they, they love me. Some don't, because this is the problem that— I mean, we're going to go through different strands, but look at it from this point of view.

So I heard a term in— when was it? 2020, the end of 2020, or like October, September, October 2020. I got called a white savior. I never heard that. So I know in all the time I lived in Kenya after the incident, no one ever called me a white savior. But, but ironically, it was a university-educated white woman who called me that.

What does that mean?

It means because I'm saving Black people, so they couldn't do it themselves, so it took a white man to do it. That's kind of the vibe. So they're saying, oh, but it's a bit of a white savior story. And I was like, it hit me hard because I never heard that. Never heard it from an African. Never heard a, never heard a Black person call me that. But that's the first time I heard it was about September, October 2020 of what the— oh, it's a bit of a white savior story.

Where's this person from?

UK. But, um, so, so look at it like this. So there's all these elements. There's one, there's the element of there's maybe people in the military of a senior, of a senior position. Well, maybe there are. I mean, some of them are retired now who obviously didn't like what I did. The classic line of Christian Craighead is a bad example to young soldiers. His mutineer attitude promotes lawlessness in the military. That's what someone said. So there's that element of me not having orders, going in, doing it, or it could be bad. So there's, there's that element, which is a tiny little element, but that the— those people are invigorated by the other stuff to then try and stop, stop me, stop the book. But if you think about it, there's this element as well. There's, if you think of modern Hollywood, TV, commercials, hey, there's this guy did this thing. Oh, that's a cool story. What does he look like? Oh, he's middle-aged white guy with blonde hair, blue eyes, and promotes Christian value and supports Trump. It's like, ugh. It's probably the worst. I can hear all these blue-haired liberals kept like vomiting right now.

Um, because it doesn't— that it doesn't— it's a bad image. And so when you— when— so when we're speaking like peers and people like you and people with the common sense, we go, this would be a great story, this would be great for PR. Yeah, for us it would be, but if you think about all the people who are dictating and pushing where advertising, movies, and everything goes. Kind of not a good— kind of not a good PR story because it's like, well, he's— that's not what we're pushing right now. We need— we need white guys to look weak and effeminate or the bad guys. We can't have them to be the heroes. That's— that's so 1980s, 1990s. Holy shit.

So that's why the UK is coming after him.

I mean, these are— these are theories. This is not This is theories. But this is, this is not me. This— I don't know this, but I, I think what I'm going through now is like maybe of some of all of its parts. There may be elements of this. There's the jealousy, there's the just— it's not a good look. Not to mention that I'm working class, didn't graduate high school. So it's like, so when, when they're bottle-feeding officers and stuff going, you, you lead, without you soldiers can't do anything, and then you would say, well, that guy has got no education, But he ended up being a sergeant major in the SAS, and, um, or warrant officer for anyone who's going to pick holes, but it's a warrant officer, so it's like, um, of, um, and he— and, and the whole— and people in Russia love this story, people in Ukraine love this story, people in China love it, Brazil, France.

Africa.

Yeah, Africa. And so everyone in the world loved this story, but it's— hey, it is just it. But remember, he's just a scumbag. Not a good look because it goes against everything that everyone's being fed. So there's that element, could be it doesn't help. There's also, um, the other way of looking at it is the destruction of the SAS. So It's not conspiracy theory. We can see that the UK is being destroyed.

Mm-hmm.

It's being destroyed. You can't dress it up. They are destroying that country. So why stop at our premier fighting force, the SAS? Because all they seem to promote now— they don't have any stories out, they don't do— they don't want to speak highly of it, but they'll allow negative stories about these, like, wild claims of war crimes in Afghanistan or whatever. complete bullshit, all that kind of stuff. But they want to suppress this, completely suppress it. Why? I'll tell you another theory. Because when you want to destroy something, which they will, it's easier when no one knows anything good that they've done. So like, oh, we can't— like, and I think— and we're seeing it in Australia. We're seeing the same, the same thing, same woke crazy government destroying Australia from the inside.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Allegations against the Australian SAS. And yeah, there's the footage that people saw, but there's left and right of it. And it's just like, oh, because remember, if you're seeing this, it means you— they want you— that's what they want you to see. You don't see the whole story. You don't see everything else. Um, and, um, Ben Roberts-Smith, we just talked about, you see Again, trying— what, why? They're trying to break him down because again, he's, he's a, he's, um, he's a hero. It's an element of strength. So it's this feminization of the, of our premier fighting forces. Again, it's all, it's all kind of woven into each other when I say about, oh yeah, well, we don't— you're not very— he's not— he's kind of the most undiverse person we could ever ask for. Because of everything, these things. It's breaking down the strength of these units. So when they just— when they, when they come, when they want to destroy it, which I'm sure they will in the future unless left unchecked, it's easier for the public to swallow because all you've heard is bad things about them. You haven't heard good things. And then the, the, the other thing is that the picture of me running into the hotel, that famous picture which is That's taken from that picture, that image of me going into the, the hair salon.

What is it? What's that picture? Well, you could look at it at the first level is it's an SAS commando running into a building to clear it. Pretty cool picture, everyone loves it. Okay, that's one way of looking at it, but what else, what else is it? Well, it's also A guy, a white working-class male who seemed to have no opportunity in life but managed to— he joined the army, thrived in the army, joined the premier fighting force, and then saved the day. That, that is— that's such a powerful thing that one, you could be used for, uh, for recruitment.

Recruitment.

But also, what else is it? So let's have another. It's also a white working-class male who saw evil and tyranny and decided to act when no one else will, or what no one else would. So if you times that by 10, 100, 1,000, a million, then you've got problems, uh, because then you've got revolution. And I think that photograph is kind of an image of revolution. And what's the worst thing that could happen, or the best thing depending on how you look at it? Well, I'll tell you what would happen. We're sitting in it. And through, through, through young men standing up to evil and tyranny out of— and acting when no one else would, the greatest country on this planet was created, the United States of America. That's, that's power, and that you don't— and people do not like that.

It is very interesting to see how much of an effort they're putting into coming after you.

When you take it into perspective, I haven't talked about anything to do with SAS operations. This— so there was a checklist when I said, right, I'm just going to publish it. in the United States anyway. Firstly, this book, this version of this book was written in the United States of America. 2, doesn't break the Official Secrets Act. It's got less in it than the other version of the book, which was in the judicial review, but even that version did not break the Official Secrets Act. So I'm a kind of a team player. If it broke the Official Secrets Act, I wouldn't have released it, but it, but it doesn't. So, and all it breaks is this disclosure agreement where I said, where they get— I could write a book saying the grass is green and the sky is blue, and they could look and go, we're not letting you publish that. We don't have to tell you why, we just don't want you to publish it. So that— I— but it doesn't break the Official Secrets Act, and it's a story about what a whole world saw, which was no SAS operation. It's only me.

So it doesn't even give any, any tactics.

Right.

Because none of it was based on Oh, the squadron doing this, or, or I'm doing this. So it's not nothing about the SAS in there other than that I'm in it and I did selection. It doesn't talk about selection. I just failed it and then passed it. Uh, but they're, they're pushing and every— and there's like, what? But they're trying their damnedest to stop it.

The—

it's a— this might make some people uncomfortable, but it's, it's the truth. The ch— there's a cherry on the top of it all, and that cherry is President Trump. Because I am a— since Medium, I am a big supporter of President Trump. And I think that, especially for people in the UK government, is just too much. And dare I say it, I think it might have been— they might have tolerated this had I not met President Trump in 2019, nor supported him later. I— and not— there's a chapter in the book about Medium. If that wasn't in, I think they might have just let me publish it. But, but there's that. And I should— I'm sorry, I forgot to mention the Christian element. It's making— this is going to, um, which we'll go back on it, but the President Trump is— I'm a supporter, and I think that is just too much for some people in the UK from up top. It's like, nah. And remember, this is the same government There's 2 things, like 3 things now. This, the same government, whilst I spoke for— I had the privilege to speak for President Trump to 120,000 people in his campaign for pres— for the presidency.

At that same time, the same government who wanted to destroy my life illegally sent, uh, over 100— I think it was 120 members of parliament to the United States to canvass for Harris. And you're telling me there's no bad blood? I doubt it. So TDS runs, runs, runs thick, runs deep and thick. Um, but the other thing as well, when, when the, when the shutters came down on this all those years ago in 2021, a very close friend of mine said, you know, I— have you ever considered that forces of evil might be trying to stop this book? And I hadn't given it a thought then. I was still kind of reeling. But now I look back and go, absolutely.

That's what I was getting at at the beginning of this.

Forces of evil are trying to stop this book. Why? Because this is the story, like I say, of— it's, it's a story of good versus evil. It's a story of standing up to tyranny when no one else will. And it— this will Um, I think a lot of people, young men will and women will read this book and it will make them look in a Bible or make them consider their faith as well. And I think that is just something that evil cannot tolerate. Bearing in mind, whilst there's an injunction going to get launched against me next week, maybe in the UK, at the same time, the same— the, the Council of Birmingham are doing another injunction If you put the national flag up on a lamppost, you could also get 2 years in prison for doing it. If you put a Palestinian flag or Pakistani flag up, that's fine. But if you put the flag up of the country you're in, so, so when it's sometimes when I think—

I mean, they're allowing— they are turning a, turning a blind eye to Islamists raping women over there.

That's just it. And this is when you hear about—

Totally ignoring it.

When you hear about everything that's going on—

Because they'll put effort into coming after you.

When I get the legal notice saying, oh, you're going to get served in America for this injunction, which kind of expected, it hurts. It still hurts like hell, even though I'm expecting it hurts. But then I look at the news and look at what's going on in the UK and think, why am I even surprised? They're willing to invest time on putting people, putting flags up, saying things on Instagram, um, or me telling a story everyone's heard. But if you, if you gang rape a girl, film it on your, on your phone, you're probably gonna get less time in prison than I would get if I went back to the UK. The country's fallen. Another reason why they don't like it is like, this is a modern story. Make no, make no doubt about this, this is Christian warriors fighting against Muslim cowards. That is this book. So, and if anyone thinks anything else, that's not true. I'm getting, getting angry, but that's what this is. And in the UK, like everything, we know it's fallen. We know that, we know that they, they dance and skip to Islam. That's what they do. It's a— the country has fallen.

So having me Looking as I look, as I am, even though I help— I helped other Muslims, I help everyone, I help Blacks out, anyone, Japanese, everyone— the, the fact that I killed Islamic terrorists is just too much for them to bear as well. They will never stop.

I think the whole thing comes down to good versus evil.

Yep.

Same stuff we were talking about At the very beginning.

Yep.

Same stuff we talk about offline.

Yeah.

I think it comes back to what's your purpose.

You know, hopefully soon I'll be a US citizen. I was a permanent resident. I mean, by the time this comes out, it could be a US citizen, who knows. Um, but, but as a, as a permanent resident, I'm protected by the Constitution. Obviously I can't vote. Maybe if I voted Democrat I could. I think that, I think that works. But, uh, um, um, but I, yeah, I can't vote, but I'm protected by the US Constitution. This is a book that was written by me in America. And it's only being published in America by an American company. So I think any attempt to stop it is, one, foreign overreach, and two, a breach of my First Amendment. But that's a job for Tim.

You know, You know what's weird is, um, this is just by coincidence, all the people around me that are protecting me for some reason wound up being Catholic. Tim Parlatory's Catholic. Rob Lona, who does all my business and financial work, Catholic. Hendo, the guy that protects my family, who you, who you know now, Catholic. Laura, who knows everything about me and my family, Everything Catholic. And I didn't even know, I didn't even know any of this.

Yeah.

Until fairly recently.

So, like, I was, I was a convert. So I became a Catholic in 2013, I believe. I became a Catholic then. Which is fine, but so I'm saying this to young people watching and thinking, oh, I want to explore my faith. Any faith, any Christian faith is better than no faith. Find and feel. And then, but the Catholic Church is the source point, is the church. And you go, when people are looking, going, where do I go? Find it, find a vicar, find a priest, explore it, and then ultimately you'll find your way home, whatever that looks like. Sorry?

Find a Bible.

Yeah. And then, and then just let it take its course. And so I'm not saying everyone, oh, you know, you should be a— you know, you'll find it all out and do what works for you, but it's real. This is real. And if you've, if you've sat through however many hours this has been so far, and you, you're doubting, going, they're all just talking shit, there is no God, or whatever, then maybe consider, consider what you just watched.

You know, the people that are coming after you now are even more cowardice than the ones you fought in Kenya.

Oh yeah.

They don't even have a face.

Yeah. Yeah. They just look at it. And that's what I said. A good friend of mine is very senior in the British Army, and I was hoping he could help or make them see sense. Said, this is still— you can still retrieve this. This is a good story, it's good PR and everything. I said, but let's look at it this way. What is success for you now? What is success for the— for the— whether you frame it as the British government, it's really the government or Ministry of Defense. What is success? It's basically just destroying my life. That's it, book's out. That's that. You just want to destroy my life. And it's a— I haven't broke the Official Secrets Act, I've just broken a civil, uh, disclosure agreement. But you want to destroy my life. People will be talking about this story long after I'm dust in the ground. And we got— and everyone now, and they have the opportunity to stop this. Because they'll say, oh, have you read the book One Man In? Or have you heard about the story? But hopefully everyone's bought— everyone's bought the book, reads it, it's a bestseller.

Have you read One Man In and that story? Oh, brilliant. The next words out of everyone's mouth, probably for as long as this story exists, will be, yeah, but it's a shame what the British government did to him, or tried to do to him. Um, What a great American. What a great American.

Yeah.

He is. And they had the opportunity. And the other thing, which is kind of frustrating, is 2019, sorry, 2020, not 2019, 2020, that's when I kind of like make the decision I may get out. And there's a whole load of checklists of me getting out. coming to America and then retiring, going to America. And just for full disclosure, from about 2013-14, that was when I decided to come to America. Well, I thought, right, when I retire, I'm going to move to America. And I didn't leave the— I didn't leave the UK because of this or because of what they're doing. I would— even if UK was some tax haven utopia, I would still be in America. It's just coincidental timing. But, um, but, but I was— I had 2 years left in the Army, and I knew that I wasn't going to do another. I knew that they would force me out after that. And maybe they could have extended, but at the time I was like, they're not. So there's a checklist. I asked, I asked very senior people— when I say senior, I mean senior officers— can I write the story? about this book?

Yes, just work with disclosure, which I did. If they'd said, no, you can't, whatever you do, you can't write this story, I wouldn't have went. Just like on that day, if they'd phoned me up before I'd got there and said, you cannot go in, under no circumstances go in, there's a good chance I would have followed the orders and not, not went in. With this book, if they'd said, you cannot go in, um, you cannot go into the— sorry, look, you cannot publish a story about this under no circumstances, I would have went, noted. And I would not have— would have not down it— went down it. But they said, you can write the story. And the sad thing is, in the judicial review, which was that head job, um, some of these officers lied and said, oh, we told him he could write a book, but we didn't know it was about Kenya. What do you— so were you happy about me writing about my life or whatever? That, and that, and, and, and they approved the— even they approved the, the image, which was not— it was different to that, but it was very similar.

Um, oh, we didn't know it was about Kenya. And, and, and, and they— so they just backtracked. But if they told me that, if they'd said from the get-go, no, you can't, you can't tell the story, I wouldn't. But then you set me on this motion, and the genie can't get put back in the bottle. And it's like, what, the, the, the, the, the pension If they, they probably stopped that soon, but it's, it's pittance. I can't even live off it. So it's this thing of like, what am I, what am I supposed to do? And then, so they see you can— I can— so I, I invest all this time, effort writing the book, trying to do it, and then, and then I have to— then they throw down all this legal and, oh, you can challenge the legal. It's all bully tactics. You can challenge it. No one's ever done it, so I challenge it. Absolute head job.

Government.

And it's a, and it's a cautionary tale Because it's happened in the UK now. This is what happens when you get rid of jury service, when you have a government-appointed— no jury and a government-appointed judge, and you're challenging the government. So even when your legal team's going, we've got this, there's no way we've lost this, and then they declare, no, no, we will win in favor of the government. That's what happens in this Orwellian society that is the UK and Australia. And, and I, and like, and then it comes down to the whole thing of I saw I had to sell my medals. I sold my medals in, um, what year would it have been? 2022. I had to because like we had the 2 weeks to flatten the curve and couldn't really do much in there. And then I've got legal fees, I've got like, I, I have to plan things. I don't know if I'm gonna have to— I've got to pay mortgage, mortgage and things like that. And I'm like, I've got, I've got, I can't, I've got to think to the future about these legal battles. So I sold my medals to pay for my legal fees.

So, so, so when you talk about a pound of flesh that the British government's got, this, this book has cost me personally over $130,000 to publish so far. And that's, that's, that's my own, that's my own money that I've paid on that. It's also, also because of— if I ever go, I can't ever go back to the UK, I'll be arrested. And it's like, and, and as it stands, I'm not making money from— I, I, again, it's if they want to take the money off me and everything, it's just like, what? Like, that's what I'm saying. Their mission is just to destroy, not to like work or whatever. We could do a regain. It's, yeah, it's, it's, um, it's cost me a lot in But I'm thankful because I think it's part of the plan, and it's a lesson for him. It's like the Streisand effect. If this— if they just let the original book come out in 2021 when it was supposed to, you know, this book is far better. It's much more streamlined. It's a fast read. It's entertaining. But if they'd let that book come out, yeah, it would have done well.

It would have sold, and then it would have just— it just would have been a thing. But I tell you something now, there's a lot more people going to buy this on the 15th than— probably 10 times as many people are going to buy this on the 15th that would have if it had been sold in July '21 when it was supposed to be sold. And, and that's all because of you trying to stop it. Everyone wants to know about this.

It's gonna work out, man.

So, and when you buy this, when you all buy this book and read it, and you'll read it fast. Most people smash this in 24, 48 hours. It's a fast read, um, it's a real page-turner. When you read this book, you will finish it and go, why the hell did the British government try and stop this book? Because that is a night— it's a good story. There's no— I don't talk about— there's very, there's very little negative in there at all. There's no negative at all to the British government or the military. It's like, that's— people will go close and go, why are they trying to stop this? And obviously the, the, the theories and reasons I've, I've, uh, I've given you already. And that's it.

Because you're dead on. I think you're dead on. You're doing a good thing, man. Look, you're doing a good thing, then you're a good man.

Well, we'll see what happens.

You want to end this with a prayer?

Sorry?

You want to end this with a prayer?

You want me to say it?

I'll say it. Oh, I can say whatever, but Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Hosts, by the power of God, cast into hell Satan and all evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen. Amen.

Amen. I was, I was going to say the same prayer. I was, I thought, all right, that's why I was just like, oh, if he'd said Saint Michael, I would have said it. Do you say safe? Do you, do you say— I noticed that people do say, uh, Prince Michael the Archangel, defend Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in the, defend us in this, in the day of battle.

I say defend us in battle.

I'd say, I was, was taught defend us in the day of battle. Be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, cast into hell Satan and all evil spirits that wander the earth seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.

I think that's a pretty fitting prayer, but especially for right now and for what we just discussed. Christian, it was an honor, man. I think so. It's such an honor just to be your friend and to know you and, uh, and to be able to do what we did today with you and Maile. Um, thank you. God bless, brother.

So the interesting thing about— well, it's interesting to me about the incident is most people in the military will know that, and you, you've probably seen this, if you do something great or good, you get shit for it from your colleagues and your peers. They're like, they give you, oh man, I can't believe you did that, or you should have done this, or whatever. And it's all, it's all with love, it's banter. But with this incident was different, and it caught me off guard. And when I was back to the UK, my peers, even people who I didn't see eye to eye with in the past, they treated this incident and my actions with total reverence. It wasn't badmouth, it was all just like, thanks for what you're doing. In December of 2019, I briefed not just my unit, but support staff, civilians who worked on camp, everyone about the incident into minute detail. far more than I ever went into detail in any of the— any, any, any podcast I have done or will do, and/or in the book. But I went into every detail and finished it, and everyone loved it. Um, so what is unusual is to get praise.

So not only afterwards did my peers come up and praise, they actually sent me messages of praise, which is, for me, that's like— Totally unusual. And so unusual, I, I, I took note of all these messages because it, because it did hit me off guard. Like, hit me off guard. I was like, man, this is unusual. Um, and it wasn't disrespect to them. Like, it meant so much to me. That's why I kept the message. I didn't think, oh, in whatever, how many years, 7 years' time, I'll go on a podcast and bring these up. It was more of like, man, that, that, that moved me. But I saved them in my notes and forgot about them. And it's only in the past few months that I came across them. I was like, damn, because as humans, we forget. And what I'm trying to get to, where this is leading to, is the discontent of how the establishment, the senior leadership, did not like what I did that day. So, get my phone out here. And I'll read some of— I won't read all of them because some of them are just praise, but it just highlights the, um, the feeling, what guys in 2019 knew.

So here we go. Um, well briefed, mate. It goes against the clean image and worries them that you have so much influence and reach that they can't control or manipulate for their own means. So someone from my unit messaged me that in 2019. Um, mate, I just want to say how proud I am to know you. Every time I hear you speak, I remember why we do what we do. You're a true iconic legend within the geezers. Geezers is like a high compliment in, in, um, in the SAS. If you're a geezer, it means you're a dude. Like, it's not like American. So you're not— you're, you're, you're a true iconic legend within the geezers. Never change and always keep doing what you're doing. Um, great presentation, mate. You did the regiment proud. Fuck all those negative cunts. So even so, why that's important is it's saying that they knew that there was a whole load of negativity surrounding this. And then on point, so, um, last night a friend of mine, uh, within the, within the SAS messaged me saying, how's it going? And I just said to him, dude, the, the MOD, UK government, are trying to destroy me.

Because that's what they're trying to do. They're not trying to stop the book, they're trying to destroy me and what I represent. And he previously hadn't— he's not in any of these messages, but how on point is this? So this is less than 24 hours old. History tells us that the— that people fear what they can't control. Oh, sorry, history tells us that people fear who they can't control. So it's well, um, sort of indicated within the regiment that a lot of the senior people don't like what I did or what it represents. So I just want to say, yeah, Same as the, the previous Sean Ryan Shaw interview, I just want to thank everyone who's just taken the time to go through this interview and listen. And, uh, and hopefully from hearing this interview and buying the book One Man In, then all I ask is your support, because the establishment, so to speak, certainly from a European point of view, do not like what I stand to— what I stand for and what I represent.

No matter where you're watching The Sean Ryan Show from, if you get anything out of this at all, anything, please like, comment, and subscribe. And most importantly, share this everywhere you possibly can. And if you're feeling extra generous, head to Apple Podcasts and Spotify and leave us a review.