Transcript of Hope Always Lives on the Other Side of Hurt

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. We're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. This is the Ramsey Show. Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. We're thrilled to have you with us. The phone number to jump in on the conversation today is 888-825-5225. You ready to go, partner?

I am ecstatic.

I see you got your really fancy denim jacket on today.

I saved the best for you.

I appreciate you cleaning up. Let's go to Kathy and Texas. Kathy, how can we help?

Hi, I'm 68 years old, and six months ago, I got involved with an online investment group. I eventually borrowed $50,000 for my brother. He invested $110. I retired from my company. I took out all my 401k and pension. And last month, they ghosted us and closed our accounts, and we lost it all. I lost 487,000. My brother lost the 50 I borrowed and the 110 he invested. And my brother would like his money.

Oh, boy.

And I have a house that's paid off. I live in Texas, so I have a homestead on it. I have a $30,000 loan from American Express. So I'm wondering Do I file bankruptcy? I tried to get a reverse mortgage, but my husband died, so my house is not in good enough condition. I'm just lost.

Okay. Oh, absolutely. Not only you lost, I'm guessing you're just emotionally stunned. I am. That's an unbelievable- I'm devastated, really. Yeah, I'm so sorry.

Is this scam still out there?

It probably is. I filed with FBI and all the agencies, but they didn't have a whole lot of hope for me.

Yeah, it's rare that in these situations you get your money back. How much debt total do you have right now? You said you have 30K on an American Express card?

Right. That was a loan. The other two are 2,000, maybe 3,000 total.

So 33,000.

So 33,000. I know you retired recently.

Yes.

What does the future look like as far as work? Because we absolutely have to consider that right now.

Oh, I know. I've been applying, but like I said, I'm 68. I've had my job for 36 years. I did sales, so I can do that.

But I'm- How long have you been out of the workforce?

Since May, end of May.

What about your past company? Have we called them up and told them what's going on?

My job, once you quit, you're gone. I'm easily replaceable. Okay.

Well, bankruptcy, it will clear the American Express debt, but I don't think it's worth a fair bankruptcy over this. I don't either. Because you lost your retirement money. You're not going to get that back. Right. And the pension as well. So you took the pension out as a lump sum, used that in the investment course, cashed out every dime of your retirement, and threw it into this course.

Correct. All I have is $2,000 a month, Social Security now. What is your- And a $500. $2,000. I make $2,000 a month.

And then what was the other thing you were about to mention? Five hundred something?

I promised my brother $500 a month.

Well, the promises are over. I mean, you don't have money.

Sorry, brother is on his own.

You both got screwed in this, and so you just simply don't have the money to pay him back.

Okay.

I mean, he got you into this if I heard you correctly.

No, I got him.

Okay. It doesn't matter. He didn't do his diligence. It doesn't matter. That was just me being on team Cathy, so I misunderstood. But no, you can't take care of a brother. A brother's got to take care of himself. You both made a poor decision, and now we got to figure a way out of it.

You were what the bank would call a risky borrower. You borrowed this money, and he knew full well he might never see it again.

He had faith in me. Sure. I've never disappointed him before.

Well, I hope you can pay him back one day, but it's not today. You're not going to making him payments because you got to put food on the table.

Can you live off of $2,000 a month?

My bills really are $800 a month plus food, and then my homeowners' insurance All in, what does it take to run your house for a month?

Include food, include HOA, every single little thing?

Yeah, pretty much $2,000.

Okay. So you're just going to hopefully survive, and that's where getting a job is going to come into play.

Listen, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to jump in real quick on the job thing, because I think coming off of something this emotionally difficult, one of the best things you can do is get to work. Now, I understand that you have been applying, but I think you're going to have to take some opportunities that you wouldn't normally think about now. I mean, that's maybe Starbucks, Walmart, Target. I mean, you're functional, you're a former salesperson. We need income. If we can get some benefits out of that. So I mean, you're doing everything you can. And your number one goal right now is tell everybody your story. Now, this is very difficult. I understand what I'm saying. I completely understand what I'm asking you to do, which is to share your story. It is a thing that is going to be difficult because you're ashamed, and I understand that, but you aren't the only person who has been duped before. I think a 60-year-old lady who's a good person, who has lived her life well, this is where we can't do this on our We cannot, Kathy, do this on our own. No advice that George and I will give you is going to alleviate that fact.

This is the time to go, Everybody I know, here's my story, here's what's going on, and this is what I got to do. I think that there's nothing wrong with that because you need some kind souls to go, I'm going to help Kathy, and I'm going to give Kathy a job. That's what has to happen right now.

What is your house worth?

Probably 350 for a flipper. It's on paper.

What do you mean for a flipper?

If somebody came in and wanted to flip it and make some quick money on it.

I'm saying if you listed it on the MLS, on the market with a real estate agent, what could you get for it?

Well, I asked and they said 375 to 425.

Okay. So your house is worth about $400,000 I would keep it for now, try to stay afloat, try to get a job. And there's a worst case scenario here where five years from now, if you're out of options, you're unable to work for some reason, you could sell the house, downsize, and invest the difference to try to create a little bit of a nest egg.

Well, that was why I was going to do the reverse mortgage route. No.

I mean, they will just screw you with all the fees. You're going to lose all the equity in your home. It's a terrible, horrible financial product, and they prey on desperate people like our friend Kathy to try to get them into these.

Kathy, I'm going to ask a question to George on your behalf very quickly. George, I agree with what you said about the house, but I'm sitting here going, if I'm in her shoes at 68, I wonder if it's not a... Is it a feasible idea to not sell the house now and take the entire proceeds and get that back in the retirement accounts to try to grow over the next five years? As you said that, I just...

What are your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, that was my initial thought was, could we just liquidate the house, invest every penny of it, and live off of the growth? There is risk there because we don't know what the market is going to be. I don't want her to live off of it. We don't know how long it will last. That's why I want to see right now, can we create enough income and then play that card later on down the road when necessary, instead of just going to that route and then not working at all? That's my fear. So, Kathy, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I wish I had a magic wand that can just get these scammers to give you your money back. But the relationship with your brother, it's not going to be the same. The future you had, the retirement you dreamed of, it's not going to be the same. So you got to grieve what was and just create a realistic picture of what comes next. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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Chris, how can we help today?

Well, Ken, yours.

Thanks for taking my call today.

You're on my favorite combo.

Oh, wow. We will send you a check. Kelly, make sure we pay the man.

Make it a Venmo.

Venmo, make it easier. Thank you. Thank you, Chris. Thank you. Appreciate that. What's going on?

Okay. My wife and I are really concerned, really, right now about our future retirement. So just a little background. We don't have anything saved. We don't have three to six months expenses. Just started doing the Randy steps on baby step two. We're We're talking about selling our home to get the equity out of it, to basically just pay everything off and just start fresh and be able to put some money back and then start investing 15 %, like the Ramsey stuff says. But I'm not sure if that's the right answer to do that or not. The other option is, I keep working like a madman, like I've been doing, keep the house, but we have a pool, and I don't know if that should be included with the mortgage payment, even though they're separate, or that's considered consumer debt with our car note.

How big is the pool loan? The pool loan is 73,000. And what's your household income?

About 8,200 a month after taxes.

Okay, what about before? Just give me the gross household income. About 128. Okay. Yeah, I would put it up there with your mortgage since it's over half of your annual income. We treat that like a second mortgage at that point. Okay. And so I would focus on a consumer debt first. How much is all that at up to? Well, we paid off all the credit cards, which is about 16 grand.

Now, all we have left besides the pool is a car, which is about $27,000.

What's the car worth?

42.

I know what we're doing there, George. Tell him what he's won.

You just won $15,000, my friend. That's the difference. If you sold that car and took the proceeds and got something cash, you just freed up a payment and became consumer debt-free. That's how it pulled out.

Let's stay right there, Chris. How much is that car payment?

It's 500 a month.

All right. We just found you 15,000 in cash, and we then saved you six grand a year.

Of net income. Hello. You see that magic trick right there? Yes. We still have a place to rest our head that we can call our own.

What you want is a cheaper car. That's what you want.

Now, what's the It's my wife's payment.

What's that? Say that again.

Unfortunately, that's when my wife wins. What's that? Say that again. Unfortunately, that's when my wife wins.

I just bought that car for her. Is she on board with this?

She is, if that's what we have to do, yes.

It is what you have to do.

Well, here's the thing. Do you want to be eating Alpo in retirement but have a nice car, or do we want to make a short term sacrifice so we can retire with dignity? That's the trade off here. Wow. We're not trying to punish you.

Right to the dog food.

That was dark. Honestly, dog food is not cheap.

I take that back. I tell you, my dogs eat really good food.

It's going to be ramen, I guess.

But Chris, the reason I'm saying you guys have to do this is because you're 53 and you don't have any retirement. We have got now. Now, this is where George is like, I love when George, Oh, I see him doing it. I'm crunching. I wish you could see him right now. He does the one keyboard thing. He's got the Ramsey investment calculator, which you can access at ramseysolutions. Com. So the reason we're going to be super aggressive here is because you guys can catch, you can start to make headway. But we're talking we got to sell the car, and it lists today. And we have got to change. So let's run the numbers, George.

Are you guys in pretty good health?

So that's a good question. So I had a heart attack back in March, and I've changed a lot. My health has gotten a lot better for sure. I'm going to test all that stuff right now. So that leads me to... I work my regular job, which I work 50 plus hours at. I've been door-dashing on the side about another 50 hours a week, which is a lot because I'm working every A single day from morning to night.

How long you've been doing the door-dashing?

I've been doing the door-dashing now for about three months.

Did you include that in- That's what has helped me pay off the credit cards. Okay, good for you. Did you include that, though, in the number you gave us on the 128,000 gross?

No.

Okay.

No, I did not, because I don't know how long I can sustain that, because I'm working every Saturday.

The only day I'm taking off is a Sunday.

That's it. Okay. And what about your wife?

My wife works as well. She works full-time. Her money is included in that number as well.

Okay, and what are you guys doing for work? Is there area for growth here?

Yeah, I'm in sales. There's potential for commission. I just started a new job.

Amazing.

I'm in commission right now.

Chris, that is far better than driving Uber. That's your ticket.

Forget Uber.

Number one, spend 50 hours on the phones and emails selling.

Yeah, I'm no doctor. I would like to play one on TV. I want to point that out.

And he would make a great one.

I think I would look good in scrubs. But the point here is that your health and the financial ROI for you is way better to go after that commission. But even at the 128, George, let's paint a picture here. If we sell the car and so We come up with 15 cash. We got 15, George, to work with.

Yeah. You take that 15, you buy yourself a used cash car. There we go. Then you're debt-free. Now we can work on the emergency fund. For the next, let's call it 6-8 months, just stack take away cash to build up that emergency fund, then we can begin investing. So let's just paint a picture. A year from now, you're 54, right? Yes. And you're debt free with an emergency fund, and we begin investing 15 % of our income. That's about 1,600 bucks a month. Are you tracking?

Yes.

By the age of 70, now this is assuming you're going to have to work longer because we got a late start, you would have $750,000, likely, in that one account. Now we're talking, okay, we could If we have a paid four house and 750 grand on the bank, we have a fighting chance of surviving, right? Sure.

Now, what that doesn't include, Chris, is those commissions and more income, socking it away.

What's left on the mortgage? What's the balance?

370.

Okay, and how many years left on the mortgage?

I took out a 30-year note when we bought the house. I still have 26 years on it.

What's it worth?

That's why we're talking about selling the house.

What can you get for the house? About So you'd walk away with roughly what?

When I looked at the numbers, I think I would walk away with about 180, but then paying off the car and the pool That would lead me with about 100, I think.

Yeah, that pool loan is sinking. No pun intended. Yeah, the pool, exactly.

I see what you did there.

But then with the pool, I mean, I'm sorry, what would I have left would be about 20% on the house, which only me with about $11,000.

Yeah, but- To put it towards the three to six months expenses.

Yeah, I like. It's aggressive. It allows you to start with the emergency fund immediately and start investing. You guys can downsize. It's just the two of you?

No, we have two more kids at home, but they're older.

They're fine. So they'll be out at some point.

That's right. They live where we tell them to live. George, what do you think about this? I'm actually leaning towards this. I like this move.

I'm trying to think, would you go somewhere for a while and just keep stacking cash? Because you're not going to be able to afford anything for 180. Well, and that doesn't pay off the pool.

Well, if we sold it for 600, I think... If we sold it for 600 today, I could pay off the pool in the car and build to end up with about, after I put 20 % down on a house on a 15 year note, I think I would have about $11,000 left.

That was including it.

That was including it. And then it'd be quicker there, then it would start I'm not waiting for retirement as soon as I get that built up.

Yeah, you're going to be back to having a giant mortgage is my fear with today's rates and today's prices. So that's the part you have to weigh. I would crunch those numbers heavily. I just selling a house is always the last answer, not my first solution, because number one, it doesn't actually change the behavior that got us here. It just feels like a get-out-of-jail free card, and it moves you backwards. Instead of building equity and getting that house paid off, now we're liquidating trading and starting from scratch again in our '50s. I would hesitate before just jumping on that. But I love the idea of you guys getting debt free faster, having more to retire with. But you would also have to go, We're going to downsize our lifestyle and change. I don't like the idea of you just keeping everything going, Well, we're going to keep the car, keep the pool, keep living how we're living, and get the cake, too. You're going to have to make some deep sacrifice.

I feel like, agreed. I feel like if we keep the house, then I just don't see an insight of how we could pay off the house eventually. I feel like with the income where it's at, even if I go up to the $20,000, $30,000, I just don't see how I pay off the house.

Yeah, George, I'm going to tell you, I like the aggressive approach here. I rarely disagree with you, but I like where he's at to reset, even if they've got to rent at this stage for a couple of years. I think a reset to try to really get focused on retirement investing. I don't know. It's aggressive, but I like it.

It's a reset for sure. Best of luck, my friend. If you've listened to me for more than five minutes, you know that being normal with your money is not a good thing because normal is broke. I want you to be weird. That's why I love what we're doing with Fairwinds Credit Union. Our friends at Fairwinds just launched a brand new Ramsey debit card, and it says, Debt is normal, be weird, right on the front. I love that because every time you swipe it, you're choosing to live differently with no credit card payments and no debt. You see, Fairwinds has been helping people like you ditch debt, faster, and build wealth for years. They're not trying to shove credit cards or auto loans in your face like the big banks do. They've worked with us to create the smart bundle for Ramsey fans. It includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account to supercharge your emergency fund, and now the Ramsey debit card to help you stay focused on the baby steps. We're excited for you to try it. So check them out today at fairwins. Org/ramsey. That's fairwins. Org/ramsey. Insured by the NCUA.

All right, if you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on?

How would they pay the mortgage? How would they afford just the basics like groceries? If anybody in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance. Life insurance has one function, and that is to replace your income if you die. Term life insurance is the only insurance that does that. Others, like whole or permanent life insurance, try to add the investing angle to it, and it's just a bad product. Here's what you need. Life insurance policy that is worth 10 to 12 times your annual income for a term length of 15 to 20 years, and it should be a level policy, meaning the premium stays the same. If you'd like more info on this and some actual resources, use our free term life insurance guide. Go to ramsey solutions. Com/termlifeguide. Ramsey solutions. Com/termlifeguide. Danielle is up in Cleveland, Ohio. Danielle, how can we help today?

Hi. How are you doing today? Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure.

My question is whether we are on baby step two or six. Reason being is... So we- Is this a trick question?

It's a riddle wrapped in a rhyme.

It really is, truly. We were all excited. We were debt free. We are Baby Step 6 right now, so all we have left is our mortgage. We didn't take into consideration that we do actually have a vehicle loan out for our son who is paying it, but it is in our name. So does Does that mean that we go back to Baby Step 2? Should we consider going ahead and paying the loan off while still making him responsible for it or continue on with putting everything towards our mortgage as we have been?

Do you have the cash to pay it off today?

Well, so we have our emergency fund, our six-month emergency fund. And so we were thinking that if that loan puts us back to Baby Step 2, that technically we should use that to pay it And then we could hurry up and rebuild our six months.

All right, George. Tell her, George.

What's left on the loan?

Eighteen thousand.

Okay. And is he making payments right now, or are you guys making the payments?

No, we do not make the payments. He makes the car payments, the car insurance, all of that. The loan just happens to be in our name.

Well, you owe the money. If he stops making payments, it's on you. So it's your debt. Correct. Even if someone else is currently He's currently making the payment. And I hope he continues to make the payment and do the honorable thing. What if... Is he making the payment directly to the lender, or is he sending you guys the money and you actually do the transaction?

Yeah, we make the transaction. Okay. He gives us the money, we make the payments.

I'm just wondering, if you guys paid it off, but you make him continue to make payments to you guys, that gives him the responsibility of what he said he would do, which is make the car payments while absolving you guys of the risk, the debt, all of that, and the interest.

So that's the way we were leaning. Same thought, because at the end of the day, we do have, even if it fell in us, if he, for some reason, something happened and he stopped making the payment, we have the money to pay it. We just weren't sure if we should go ahead and use an emergency fund and then go ahead and rebuild that, which we could do in about three months.

Yeah, what's his savings right now?

So we have 25 in our six month emergency fund, and then we have a couple other counts with, let's say 5,000 in one and a couple of thousand in the other. But we have no So we have no other debt other than our mortgage. So really, most of our money is sinking funds and then paying extra on our mortgage to get that paid off. Okay.

Well, I mean, if we're going to talk some antics in the baby steps, you are in baby step two. And we would consider this where you're going to liquidate your savings to pay off any debt, just like we would tell anyone in baby step two. And you'll rebuild it really fast. I would have them continue to make the payments unless you just go, Hey, bud, you're off the hook. Congratulations. Mom and dad just wanted to be generous. Early inheritance for you.

We want him to be responsible. We're trying to now get him the Ramsey program and started him a Roth, and we want him to do the responsible thing, which should be to pay for his vehicle.

Good. Well, if you want the truly responsible thing, it's the discipline to actually save up and pay cash for his next car. Just making payments has left a lot of people broke.

I Yes.

So it's an honorable thing that you guys have followed the steps. And I would talk to him. I don't know when, but say, Hey, this was a mistake. We want to do everything with cash. We don't want to owe people money. It's going to free us up mentally, emotionally, financially. And we wish this Same for you.

I have to tell you, George, if we could go back in time.

If we were doing following this- I want to sing, If I could turn back time. Please do it. I want... Fcc will come down on us hard. Is that right? Yeah. They've been very busy lately, Ken.

Oh, I see what you did there, too. Right out of the headlines, George. We're having a good time. You are on it today. I didn't know you watched the news, to be honest.

I try to keep up. There's so much. I'm trying to help Danielle. I'm trying to keep up with the news. Well, Danielle, I'm so happy for you guys. You're going to be dead free today.

Oh, I know. It's a good day. I have to tell you, I know you guys hear this a lot, but you are my favorite duo, and I really appreciate all of your advice and how helpful you all are.

That's so kind. You all are so kind. By the way, if anyone's keeping score, it's two for Ken and George today.

If we get three, we get a raise.

Is that right? No. Okay, let's milk that. Okay.

That's a great question from Danielle.

It is actually a really good question, Danielle. I don't know if you caught it. She said they could rebuild their emergency fund in three months. Really the absolute best move right here. But you got to tell Sparky.

You got to tell him. Well, you don't tell him because then he goes, Wait, Mom and dad aren't making payments.

I'm actually glad you said that because I wonder, Do you tell Sparky?

Is it deceitful? I don't know. That part is the ethical part of me. He goes, I don't know. I like a good philosophical...

I don't think it's deceitful.

What about charging your kid rent?

They pay the loan off. They pay it off. He's paying them anyway. They don't have to tell him they paid it off.

That was my thinking.

I think to your point, it puts him in a temptation situation where he's like, Oh, Mom and dad paid it off, and I'm going to flake out and put their love to the test.

Maybe I'll miss a payment this month.

I hope Sparky's listening. I might be reading his mail. I might be reading his mail. Yeah. Rex is up next in Houston, Texas. Rex, how can we help?

Yeah, Yes. I just have a question. I'm 66 years old, still working. I have a 401k, IRA. And my question is, should I take money out of my IRA or 401k to pay off my existing debt?

How much do you have in the retirement accounts, and how much debt do you have?

Ira is 1. 1. The 401(k) is 200,000. That's about 300,000.

What debt?

That's including my Mortgage, a school loan, personal loan, cars, and credit card.

Wow, you got a little full bucket there.

Yeah, at 66, I would want to simplify my life. And so you would deplete 300,000 out of your 1. 3, so it would bring you down to a million?

Somewhere around there, yes.

I like this plan because here's what it does. It frees up all of those payments. So if you added all of those payments up, the mortgage, the consumer debts, what would that be every single month?

It's about $4,500.

Now, could you then invest that exact amount? Could you promise me in America that you would do that?

Well, pretty close. I mean, right now, I put 10 % from my paycheck into my 401(k), and an additional 5 % into savings.

So here's my thinking. Are you going to work for another five years per se, or what's your plan?

Yeah, the plan is to I'm not taking Social Security either right now, so I went to 70 to take Social Security. Plan is to work to 72.

Wow. Well, I did some math for you. If you take that 4,500 bucks and you start investing it from 66 to 71, you would end up with $3. 48. So you will have more money than this debt was costing you.

Okay. And also, if I take it out of there, of course, I don't have a penalty being 66, but I am in the high tax market.

So it's all in traditional, so you would pay taxes on that?

Yes, traditional hour rate.

I would sit down with a tax pro or a smart investor pro. You can jump on ramseysolutions. Com, crunch some numbers and see, Hey, maybe I knock out consumer debts this year and the mortgage next year and try got to minimize some of the tax damage. But either way, you're going to be debt free real soon, my friend.

And I would consider maybe selling these cars. If we have some equity in these cars, let's not rob from ourselves. Let's have some discipline on that side.

Minimize the damage. Yeah.

Thanks for the call, Rex.

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All right, let's go to John in Kentucky. John, how can we help today?

Hey, how are you guys?

Good. How are you, sir?

Blessed. Just a quick question. I recently was promoted and with the expectations of moving out in Colorado. The job has been great, and I'm trying to find out either A, what home price I should be looking at to make sure that when my wife, we have her first child, she can work from home or just not work at all. Or if I should end up renting for a year or two to be able to put down a lot more on the home.

Great question. Okay, lay out some numbers for us.

Yeah, so currently I'm in sales, but But minimum is usually about 17K per month. Some months it's really great, up to 30, but it's usually between 17 to 22,000 for my income. Amazing. Her is about 5K per month, but we're expecting to bring her home after the first child.

Okay, so we'll just remove that income from the equation, and you're going, Hey, how much house can I afford if I make about 20K a month?

Yeah.

Okay. And what are you looking at right now? What price range? Yeah, so we're looking between 300 to 500,000.

But I've also been speaking with a realtor about trying to find an assumeable loan. I do have the option for a VA, which would definitely help with lowering that monthly income or the monthly home price.

Well, what it'll do is just allow you to get in with less equity, less down payment. And so that part worries me, especially for a guy making this money. Are you guys not in a good financial position? Do you have debt?

No. I spent the last few months paying off all any credit cards, anything like that. She has a car loan that has a little less than 10K. I've got about 35,000 in the savings, about 20 to 25 that I could access through the 401k. And then with sales, I should be expecting another 15 to 20,000 before we decide to pull the trigger.

John, are you familiar with our baby steps? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. When you tell us you have 35,000 sitting over in savings and your wife is carrying a $10,000 car loan, what do you think we're thinking?

I could get that paid off immediately.

Yeah. This is fine. I love when someone else knows what we're going to say. Sure. The question I have is, what is keeping you from doing that, knowing that that's what we were going to tell you to do?

Yeah, that's a great question. One of the things that I've been thinking about is with her coming home, is it Is it worth paying off the car now or is it worth making sure that I have the emergency fund saved up in case something ever happened to me or the job, that we would have a nest egg to then make decisions on finding a new job or going from there?

When is she coming home?

We are trying now, so 9-12 months.

You get what I'm saying here? I already knew the answer. You don't know when she's coming home.

Sure.

She's not even pregnant. Sure. I'm adjusting these numbers to what you gave me. You guys, you immediately, in laying out the numbers for George, you discounted her 5K a month. That actually takes your range of income between 22 and 27, not 17 and 22. To George's point, you're rolling, buddy. Getting up a really good down payment is not going to take long with those numbers. Am I right, George?

Yeah. You have a lot of flexibility. With your level of income, our parameter is no more than a quarter of your take home pay going towards this mortgage. And that includes the principal, the interest, the property taxes, all of that, the homeowners insurance. And so with your income, if you bought a $500,000 house with $100,000 down with a 15-year fix, you'd likely be looking at a payment of about 37. 50 a month, which is very reasonable if you consistently make 17 or 20K a month. Agreed?

Yeah.

And so, having a down payment of that, could you save up 100 grand over the next twelve months Yeah, easily.

I guess I should have mentioned, there is an expectation of moving out there before February, March time frame. So that's the thing I'm thinking of.

Where's the expectation coming from?

From taking the promotion.

Yeah, but you don't have to buy a house just because you're taking the job.

Correct.

I rented for two years with three kids. When I moved here 11 years ago, I rented a very much smaller house because for us, it wasn't just the It was I didn't want to make a massive decision like that about where my kids were going to be until I knew the area. I love this question, John, and I say this, I want you to feel older brother vibes here, okay? Sure. I love how planning and how intense you are and all this stuff. But, dude, take a deep breath. You have no idea how quickly you guys are going to get pregnant. You can pay off her car today. As soon as you hang up the phone, you still have 25 in cash. Between the money you guys have- Another 25K is going to slip through your hands in the next 30 days.

So I wouldn't be worried about the emergency. You're going to be stacking up cash so fast, especially once this car payment's gone, which I know it's not a lot comparatively to your income. But I would just be stacking cash and more life.

Rent, rent, rent until you guys get planted in this new place. You guys are a young couple. How long have you been married?

Less than a year.

Oh, good heavens. You guys are just learning how to be married. Yeah. How old are you, John?

32.

32. Yeah, man, this is exciting. This call is great.

And then you're in great shape. You mentioned the 401k. Never touch that retirement account if you're not 59 and a half. You're essentially taking on a loan for 35 % by cashing that out early. So I would just leave that money alone. You have a great income. Go rent in February in that new city, sign a six or nine month lease, and by this time next year, you're going to have $100,000 in a down payment account, and you can get a half million dollar home, and it's going to be so peaceful to do it slow and steady instead of rushing into all this at once, especially when you're bringing a baby into this world. Man, that just adds a whole other layer of stress and nesting. You don't want to be moving while she's eight and a half months pregnant.

To that point, I just want to give you one other little encouragement. Even if she got pregnant tomorrow and the Baby, the income, if you have no debt and the income you have, you're fine. You will build up the emergency. That 35, you're going to replenish that. You've got more than enough to take care of this baby. All right? So I love your earnest intensity. I really do. You're a sharp young guy. You're in good shape. Good shape. I appreciate it. Just breathe, man.

Yeah, that's been the tough part. Just trying to make sure in introducing family that I do everything right.

Well, buddy, I'm going to tell you something. You're a poster child. I mean, you are. You are just a... If you look up fine young man in the dictionary, nobody uses that terminology, except people that are- He's a fine young man. Well, I'm We won, folks. We have an expanded vocabulary. All right. Can I get some love in the lobby? You've heard, you've used the phrase. At the Pety Clap, if I've ever seen what it is. No, that was a nice par-put clap is what that was. Respectable. But listen, John, you are absolutely doing a phenomenal job of providing for you, your wife, your future family. You are way ahead. George, just to put you on the spot, because you're in the numbers on this particular stuff more than I am. The average 32-year-old, if you were going to make something up, an educated guess versus John to encourage John, and also to paint the picture for other people to be in his spot. What would you say the average 32-year-old dude His financial picture looks like in America.

Probably has a big truck that's about 700 bucks, probably still has the student loans, probably still fulling with credit cards, and probably making 4,000 to 5,000 a month, not 20,000 a month. That's exactly right. This picture, I'm just like, this kid is going places. He just got to tweak a few things and have a little bit of patience, but he's going to be catapulted when he's making 20 grand a month, no debt with a reasonable house payment, which means he's going to pay that house off early. Mom's going to be at home, not stressed, taking care of the baby, raising the family. This is a poster child for the baby steps if he can do this right. Yeah.

So, John, man, we are team John, and you've done such a good job, and it's really important to be able to get perspective. So glad you called today. If We could just be a little bit of a sounding board to go, Man, you're doing great. You just got to, as George said, the tweaks and enjoy life. And don't be so scared because you are really, really in great shape. And we're praying for you guys. Hope the baby and all that, everything comes along when you want it to. It's such an exciting time. You're doing well, young man. Thank you for the call.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Ken Coleman, thrilled to be alongside my pal, George Campbell. We're here for you, 888-825-5225. We go to Ohio next, where Jennifer is waiting for us. Jennifer, how can we help today?

Hi. I'm a lot more nervous than I thought I would be.

Well, it's George. He's intimidating.

It's the height, mostly.

Just know that I'm here to just take care of you. I'll make sure he's nice. Thank you. Okay.

I'm on a baby set, too, and I'm still about $50,000 in debt. However, I'm sorry, I don't want to cry on the phone.

It's okay.

I have to make a hard decision to say goodbye to my bunny, my dog, next week. Oh, no. He's about 17, and I've had him 15 years. He's been with me. He's moved across to another country with me and all the things. What's his name? His name is Ulysses.

Ulysses?

Yeah, but Ulysses, and then my last name, the general. That's a great I love it.

Ken loves that historical name. Yeah, I'm nerding out right now. What dog? Yeah, what kind?

I don't know. He's some poodle mix. His first owner was a hoarder, and I think was trying to breed dogs or something. It was a bad situation. So he was just a sweet. He's a total love bug. He's almost 17. Well, George and I- If he tell you right now, his tail would still wag, and he'd come up and try to... He's just Well, listen, you're talking to two dog lovers here. I was hoping I'd get you two.

We hurt for you. This is not fun. Okay, so we got this hard decision coming up. Tell us what else is going on.

Well, so here's what I've done, and I guess I'm just looking for some reassurance that financially I've done the right thing. So part of how I knocked out the debt was I had a non-retirement mutual fund, and I cashed that out. And what I did is I knew this was probably coming. So I took $400, and I put it in a sinking fund, just in my savings account to say when and if. Where I'm struggling, and I hate it because what I want to do is have them cremated and get the earned back like I did for my other dog. But that's $200 more. I do have the money in the sinking fund. I'm struggling with... I've been so good about, I don't eat out, it's rice and beans, beans and rice. I'm doing handmade gifts instead of gifting. I'm doing all the things. I just want to know I know that I'm not being completely irresponsible to spend the $2. 40 instead of just $40 to clean, eat, and get my pups out in his ashes back. I know not everyone agrees with that.

Well, what's the other option if you didn't do it?

Well, there's two. So one is it's just $40 for the Cremation, and I just pay that and I don't get them back.

They just- Okay, got you. I'm sorry.

They do that in math. And then the other, the least expensive is I could bury him in my parents' backyard, but I can't pick up once he's gone. I can't do it. I'm even having a panic attack thinking about it.

Oh, well, that's tough. That's tough stuff.

Jennifer, spend the $2. 40.

Just spend it.

You're not being your responsible. You're never going to look back and go, Dang it, why did I spend that $240? I could have got That's what we're doing now. We're going to get four days sooner. Yeah.

Okay, thank you. I've been so diligent about everything that it's like- Yeah.

This is not an impulsive girls trip.

Yeah, this is not craziness. This is a big... This is a huge deal All of us who've had to put a furry friend down. It is tough. You're not like, emotionally spending to go retail therapy.

This is something that you want to do as your way to say goodbye. It's not going to derail your financial journey. If it really makes you feel guilty, here's what I would do, psychologically, go make $240 doing something, selling something as part of this journey, as a way to say, You know I didn't derail my financial goals, and I got to grieve the way I wanted to grieve.

Okay, thank you. Thank you very much.

You're the best. We're so sorry. So sorry.

Give you, Lizzie's. Give him some love for George and I. A little extra pat for the best boy. I will.

Yeah.

Thank you so much. Oh, my gosh. What is it about dogs and pets? It just crush us.

I think it's the unconditional love and innocence. Yes.

Can we just say, I love naming dogs. It's one of my favorite things in life.

What's your dog names?

We've got Ellis and Honey. Oh. And they are Doodle. Ellis is the big guy. He's like that white, perfect curl. And he's a human. Ellis thinks he's a human.

I've even- I've even-stared into his eyes. You have.

And I treat Ellis as though he's a human. And then Honey is our mini Goldendoodle. Our daughter actually owns. She bought her. That was a big thing, big purchase for Josie, our daughter, and she did it. And she's just a little miniature doodle, and she owns me. You know what I mean? She's just unbelievable.

Well, especially as the kids get older and they don't like you anymore, the dogs will always love you.

I tell you who's always excited to see me when I walk in? Ellis and Honey. Stacey's not always excited to see me. I've said. I don't blame her. I mean, let's be clear here.

I mean, it's been how many years you've been married? Twenty-something?

Twenty-something? Yeah. Some days she just doesn't want to see me.

She goes, Hey, Ken, you left the laundry out. What did I tell you? Yeah. Stacey didn't sound like that, I promise.

I was going to say, that's a horrible impression. Let's go to Ben in Kentucky. Ben, how can we help today?

Well, I'm about to retire. Not that I want to. It's just the company's closing.

And I have 300,000 in CDs, and I'm wondering what to do with that.

And I also have 100,000 US savings bonds.

I mean, do I leave them in CDs and savings bonds, or should I put them somewhere else?

Well, you're just leaving a lot of money on the table. You're basically just keeping up with inflation, but you're not going to make anything above and beyond that. If this money is going to sit there for the next 10 years, I'd much rather see it invested into the market instead of just on the sidelines.

It's time for the investment calculator, George.

Should we play the game? We should. What caused you to put almost half a million dollars on the side here? Are you scared? I'm about 67, 68 years old, and I'm just worried in the market because, well, as you know, it doesn't always go up, and sometimes it takes a long time to come back up. And I just didn't want to lose it.

And I just don't know what to do. I like it to be safe.

And that's why I was wondering.

I mean, because I do have a little bit in stocks, but not much.

Well, the thing is, when you say I want it to be safe, it's actually riskier to leave it in there long term. And the risk is, instead of making 20, 30 % this year, you're going to make 4 %. And you're going to go, What? How does that... What happened? My money just kept up with inflation. Well, it could have turned into half a million.

Quick thing on this, Ben. If the things, and I'm not going to make you tell us for sake of time, but if the things happen That you're worried about happening that would make money in the stock market risky, guess what? Your money is not safe in the other situation either, and we're all probably in a bunker somewhere. You just have to play that Does that make sense what I'm saying? All of the apocalyptic things that would make you think, Well, the CDs are safer. If that were to happen, the CDs, none of it matters. You with me on that, George?

Yeah. I mean, I don't think that's an extreme statement. Let's get a bigger financial picture here. Do you have any debt? No debt. Okay. Do you have a nest egg outside of this money? We have a simple IRA, and that's about 600,000. Okay. So you are invested in the through that IRA? Yes. Well, you trusted the market on that one. Here's the math on it. From 68 to 75, you just leave that 300,000 in there into the market. It'll turn into 600,000 by 75. Ben. That's just average rate of return, 10%. I would move that money over, leave enough, maybe a year of expenses if you're in a retirement to cover a market downturn, but I would not just leave half a million parked on the sidelines, my friend. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down.

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Hey, folks, we'd love for you to share the show with folks that you think might enjoy it, that might need it. That's how we grow. You guys are the ultimate marketing campaign. If this show is in any way impacting you in a positive way, we'd love that. Subscribe, share, like, follow all the things. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Kaitlyn is up in Texas. Kaitlyn, how can we help?

Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Can you hear me?

Yes, loud and clear. What's going on?

Thank you. My husband and I have been married for eight years. We have a seven-year-old autistic son, and he has a 24-year-old daughter from a previous marriage. Now, he was estranged from his daughter for a while, so now they have a great relationship. But we were talking and he said that he wants I have to give her 20% of his 401(k) when he passed away, but when I'm still alive, and I feel very frustrated with this. I don't know if I'm wrong or what I should do.

Did you tell him this, how frustrated you are and why?

Yes.

How did he respond to that?

Well, his reasoning is because he was... He used to be a He was in prison. He was a drug addict at one point, but he got sober. Now, he's been sober for 13 years, and he has rebuilt his relationship with his daughter. I think that the money is trying to make up for lost time and that He doesn't want her to feel like he left her behind without thinking about her.

And she is his daughter.

She is his daughter, and she's 24. The reason why I'm frustrated is because my son, our son in his special needs, and I feel like he might not be able to take care of himself. We have a trust set up. It's a special needs trust, and I guess we have a will, but I thought that all our assets were going to go into his will, I mean, to his trust, and he's saying, Well, that's fine, but 20% of my 401k is going to her. Sure.

Well, I'm just going to say that... Let me ask another question. If this daughter was your biological daughter, do you think you'd feel the same way?

I mean, maybe.

I think that- Let me put it another way. Do you think it is normal for... Let me make it super personal. Okay, I have three kids. Okay. In my will, do you think it would be abnormal if I gave all three of my kids some money?

No, that would be fair. All three were children. The same amount?

It doesn't matter. I'm not even getting into the specifics. I'm trying to walk you into... I'm really trying to coach you here. You think that's normal for me to do that? Yes. Yes. Why? Why is that normal? Why would that be totally normal?

For you to give your money to your children when you passed away. Now, would you give that to them before your wife Well, without getting into the details.

I'm not going to get into the details of my situation, but I'm making a point here that I don't think that this is abnormal, and you don't either. I think it's very emotional for you, and I'm not judging you in any way, shape, or form. I certainly see how you are where you are because you shared it with me, and I see how you got there. Because of the challenges of your son and what his situation would be, I get it. But But as I'm seeing, and I'm going to bring George in, and George may have a completely different opinion. I'm just telling you that I totally see where he's coming from, and I don't have some fundamental problem with it, philosophical I don't have a problem, and I don't have a financial problem with it. George?

Yeah, the piece I'm curious about, are you going to be okay if something were to happen to him?

Would I be okay if something happened to him?

Financially.

If If your husband dies today, are you okay?

If you get 80 % instead of 100 %, are you still living a comfortable life?

I mean, he hasn't been in the workforce that long. I probably have more investments than he does.

So I'm trying to get at, is this actually a financial... There's really no, if I get 80 %, I'm not going to be doing okay versus 100. So it's really just the idea that he's valuing and prioritizing his daughter over giving you the entire share. And maybe you feel like it's unfair to the son. Yes. So the next question is, is the son set up to succeed? If something were to happen, is the special needs trust funded? And have you guys done a good job to make sure that he would be okay?

Well, so far we have. He's seven, and my husband and I are both 50. I had him a lot later in life. And I think that... I mean, I could see that. I think that it was just an emotional feeling. I felt that he wasn't thinking about us, and he was more concerned about a grown child that is self-sufficient.

I think that's what it was. It absolutely is. But here's the thing, as an objective bystander that you called and asked this question to, I don't think he's demonstrating that even financially. The blind share, the big chunk is going to you and for your son. He's giving her percentage of his overall.

Now, I don't know the relationship or the past history, but do you think there's some guilt here that he feels as a father to go, I feel like I owe her something because of what she has gone through?

Yeah, absolutely.

So I think I would try to put myself in his shoes and just talk to him honestly and say, Hey, here's how this hit me initially. I want to hear you out and hear your heart behind this. I want to come to an agreement and make peace with whatever we decide on as a couple. And I want to see the numbers to know that our son is going to be taken care of, I'm going to be taken care of, and your daughter will get her share as well. I think focusing on the facts, the logic, and the heart behind it, the motive behind it, will help you step away from just the emotion of, Well, I'm his wife. I should be getting whatever he leaves.

And a little dose of perspective. Lord willing, you guys live 20, 30, 40 years. You guys are early 50s. You got some work to do anyway on this to really bump these numbers up. It is all emotional. I love it being honest. You're very self-aware on this, and we're not judging you at all. Totally get where you're coming from, but I see where your husband's coming from, and I think this is a marriage issue. I think this is going to cause a lot of resentment if you don't get to a place of acceptance over this and go, Oh, okay, we can come together and take care of our son. We can come together, make sure we're debt free, and lock the Ramsey baby steps out and retire with a tremendous amount of peace and margin, and not even Don't worry about this.

Can I ask you, who is the beneficiary on your investments?

My husband, 100 %.

There we go. So now it feels unfair. That's where this is stemming from. Is there a way where you could say, Hey, he's 80 %, and I'm going to do 20 % to the special needs trust?

I could. I could do that, and I think he would be fine with it. But I also know that if I give him 100 %, I definitely trust him where he would never... He would do everything he could to make sure our son is safe and everything.

Okay, there's the statement. There it is. What you just said is what you have to remember when this emotion comes up. I trust him, and I know that he would do everything he can to take care of us. This is the same man who also wants to do something for a daughter that he failed. I admire this. I admire this move. It's not traditionally I get it, but this isn't a traditional life you guys have. This is a unique story. I hope you can mend this resentment and go, Hey, this is what I felt, because I'm sure he felt some of this coming at him. I think you got to support him in this move.

Yeah. Well, thank you.

You're a good lady. You're a good lady. I appreciate you being really honest.

George, these things- This is not an out-of-bounds thing. What you're feeling is normal, but I just want to go further than that instead of just leave it at face value of, Well, he should give you 100%, you're the wife. Again, this is a complex situation and it requires a more unique solution.

Yeah. Thank you, Kaylyn, for sharing with us. You're a good lady, and you guys have a lot of time to do what's necessary to take care of your son. Focus on that. That's a unified goal and a worthy goal.

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All right, George, we're going to do something new. This is going to be fun. How How about a video call? Would you like to help somebody out on video?

This is something we have never done on the Ramsey show.

No, we're doing it right now. We're going to go to Sarah in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hi, Sarah. Hi, guys.

I hope you're doing okay today.

We're doing okay.

It's so nice to see you.

It is so nice to see you. Thanks for joining us. How can we help today?

Well, after about seven years of hard work at paying off my debt, I found myself in a A bit of a better financial situation. I've been working for seven years at 70 to 100 hours a week.

What? I'm wondering- Doing what work? Tell us what work this is.

A little bit of everything. I've been a bartender, a legal secretary.

I currently work bartending as a legal secretary Secretary and in logistics.

What's your full-time job?

I work in logistics.

Okay. That's 40 hours a week?

Yeah.

At least. That's a normal 8: 00 to 5: 00?

Sometimes I'm working overtime.

Okay. Then at night, you're going to the next thing, to the next thing to the next thing. For seven years, you've done this? Yes. Are you done with the debt?

I am not. I just got my student loans refinanced. They were at a 14% interest rate, if you can believe it, and I cut it down to six.

Okay.

Give us a quick snapshot of your current debt situation.

I have $85,000 left. I got my credit cards completely paid off last year. Based on my current income and the rate at my refinance, I'm able to pay double, sometimes two and a half times my minimum.

Are you doing the debt snowball where you're just focused on one and making minimums on the rest?

I only have the one loan because they got consolidated when I refinanced to get out of the 14 %.

Oh, so you have an $85,000 loan that you're just tackling.

And what are you putting towards that? What is the amount you're putting towards that every month?

So the minimum is 1065, and I am currently paying per month somewhere around 2,500.

I sometimes can go a little higher depending on the hours. Because you just told us 70 to 100 hours, and the emotion came out. What's going on? What's that emotion coming from?

It's just been a lot for a long time. Yeah.

Three years is basically what I have calculated left at.

Okay. And that just feels absolutely overwhelming. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What we want to do here is we want to go, Okay, it's okay to take a deep breath on this whole situation and go, Okay, I can't keep this up right now. You feel like you're at your breaking point. That's what you feel like.

A lot of days, yes. I mean, my boyfriend is incredibly supportive, and he tries to do as much as he can to help out, but he really doesn't know what more to do for me.

No.

Okay, so let's see what we can do. Well, you're not. Let's start there. You're not stuck, you're exhausted. Okay, you've done a great job. All right, let's look at the day job, the 40-hour a week job. What is your income from that?

About 54 before any overtime.

Okay, 54,000 before overtime. Then how many overtime hours are available to you?

It depends. Currently, I'm working We were from 4: 00 to 10: 00 a week.

Okay, so 4: 00 to 10 hours of overtime. A week, yeah. Okay, great. That puts us at most 50 hours, so 44 to 50 hours. Then you are working these extra jobs on top of that, correct?

Yes, that is correct.

Okay.

If I were to say to you right now, Hey, take a month off of these other jobs, and let's just focus on the day job and the overtime that comes with the day job. That's going to put us in a 44 to 50 hours a week. Just knowing what you know about your finances, how much would that affect your to make that $2,000 payment a month? What would it drop and what would it drop, too?

It would drop about $1,500.

Okay, so it would be that substantial? Yeah. Okay. That's what's saying if you keep this up, you're on a three-year pace, George. I want to bring you in on that because I think there's another way out of this on the three years.

Yeah, I'm trying to get to the root of you've been at the seven years. On average, it takes people about 18 to 24 months to get out of debt. What was the original balance you were facing of all the debts?

Part of this is I went and got a master's degree. My field that I work predominantly in is known for not paying very well, but I would try to write in my free time. I have a degree in history.

What was your What's your master's in? Military history, actually. Oh, boy. Were you trying to get a job in that field, or was this just for fun? Yes, actually.

My eventual goal is to teach, and I have to lead on potentially getting to a PhD program in the next couple of years.

Oh, forget it.

Which is paid.

Let's put that on ice. It's paid. I know, but right now... So let's go to the- I know, and that's where I'm at.

Let's go to the logistics. What debt was this? What debt was this? What was the original balances? Because it sounds like you added to it over the seven years. In my mind, you were just crushing down the debt, but instead you were adding to it while trying to keep up. I actually paid as I was in my master's program in order to keep doing that and still held my minimums for my undergraduates. So was this $500,000? I am not entirely certain.

No.

I was a little bit stupid, and I didn't know what I was doing when I went into my undergraduate program. That's most everybody. And my dad took care of all of the loans, and he put them on variable interest rates.

I have no idea exactly what the starting amount was.

Are they in his name or yours?

He's my cosigner.

Oh, this just got more interesting.

So the debt is also his. Okay.

Yes. All right. I think we got to talk about, first of all, you can't keep this up. I don't think you're in it. Now, you might be able to come back to 70, but 100 hours. At some point, you're going to have to be really smart about you and your mind and your body trying to keep this up. All right. What is two or three rungs up the ladder look like from your logistics career where you are now? What does it look like? Is it attainable and does it pay substantially more?

Yes.

That That's the focus.

If we can double your income and get you working 40, 50 hours, we solve the problem.

That's what we're trying to do here. You're working like crazy.

That's one of the things I've been working towards for the last year is to earn the promotion that comes, and I think I'm actually close to it.

You're close. Can I tell you something else? You keeping up the schedule you've been keeping up while I admire it, and it is gazelle intensity, you're the poster child, we're so proud of you. But that's affecting your ability at the day job. You're going to become more promotable when you are more refreshed mentally, physically. So you're not stuck. You're not putting the best effort. Your effort's amazing, but the effort is not going to the best place. I want to see you get promoted. I want to see you use that logistics resume in the building that you're in right now, or outside of that building because the logistics experience and skill said, George, is where she has the greatest opportunity for growth. Now we can work 50 hours a week, maybe the occasional 60, but we got more income.

Yeah, I would try taking a few months off. I think you should. Let me see what this does for my career. Let me see what this does for my emotional and mental health and physically. And then we'll reset in January and see, do we need to put the foot on the gas again? Yeah.

Sarah, we're rooting for you. You're a warrior. Keep going.

All right, let's go to Amber in Georgia. Amber, how can we help today?

Hey, guys. So I guess my primary question is, how do you stay motivated? Or how do I stay motivated when I feel deprived and restricted by a budget?

Who made the budget?

I got a feeling it was somebody else.

Was it you? You made the budget.

No, I made the budget. There's more to the feeling restricted.

Yeah, what area do you feel restricted in?

Tell us what's making you feel restricted.

Sorry, I thought I was going to be able to keep it together.

Listen, people cry on the show all the time. You're okay. We're good.

I have had a very difficult life. It's been I'm really, really tough, and I'm just now starting to get help. And part of the things that have been tough have been financial. I have spent money just because I was filling a void, and I didn't know or realize that until recently. So I've gotten myself into a lot of financial trouble. I was married to a man who got us in a lot of financial trouble. We almost lost our house. We wound up filing bankruptcy. I had to file bankruptcy a second time in order to avoid a legal situation. I just feel like it doesn't matter what I do. I can't stick to anything.

So you're beating yourself up big time.

This isn't about the budget, Amber. You feel hopeless because life has knocked you down, and you need to heal from all the things that have happened to you, and that's okay. So where are you at today? Are you single again? Working?

I work. I work about 52 hours a week. I've got two jobs that I work those hours between, and then I work 12 hours a month at a third job. I do have a boyfriend, but he lives an hour and a half away.

What are you making with all three jobs?

Around I need 2,000.

Okay. Do you have kids?

An older kid.

Okay. So you're only responsible for you right now?

Yes.

Okay. Let me just throw something in real quick, okay? I'm proud of you, and I think you should be proud of yourself. I hear a lady who has had a rough go, and I think you blame your sofa a lot of it. Not all of it, but I think you're dealing with a lot of shame. I just want to say to you that the fact that you're working three jobs and making $60,000 a year and trying to rebuild, I just want to say you are a strong person. So the rest of the phone call, I want you to know that and believe that because that's what I see. And, George, you see it as well.

Yeah, you're resilient.

Okay, so let's keep walking through. George Walker through the financial stuff.

You make 62k. How much debt do you have right now?

About 88,000.

Okay, break that down for us.

Okay, 3,000 $2,000 is just random miscellaneous debt. I've got $2,000 in credit card, $7,000 on one vehicle, 21 on another, $25,000 in student loans, and 30,000 to my parents for my divorce.

Okay, and this is all post your last bankruptcy? Yes. Okay, so the cycle has just been continuing every single time. Is that correct?

Yes.

Okay. You said you're trying to seek help. What area you share as much as you're comfortable with, but what is the root of this? If you had to say, Hey, When this happens, this is a trigger for me that causes me to spiral and go want to spend a bunch of money that I don't have and go into debt. What causes the loop?

Aside from mental health, I don't know.

When you say mental health, what are you comfortable telling us? Diagnose yourself here. What is this thing? Is what George is getting at?

I was recently diagnosed with PTSD and bipolar disorder. Okay.

Are you currently with a medical professional working on treatment and medicine to get a hold of this?

Yes.

Okay. And in the meantime, your original question was, I feel restricted by living on a budget. So when you made this budget, what is the area or line item where you go, Oh, this is so restrictive? What can't you do that you want to do? Well, I mean, part of it is your bills, right? You have your rent, you have your utilities, you have insurance, you got to put food on the table and get some groceries. So what is restrictive about it?

So I feel restricted in the sense that I'm so accustomed to having two income. I went from $175,000 combined to $50,000 at the time. And I could buy whatever I wanted. It didn't matter. We were in a decent financial position, and I'm still in that mindset that I just can't get out of. Paying my bills is not the problem. Bills are paid. I can't put money away because whatever money I have left over, I want to buy nothing, anything.

Well, okay, so let's reclassify the word you're using because words matter. But before we do that, quick context. Yes, you had two income, but you told us that your ex-husband put you in a massive financial hole on his own. So it wasn't that great. It's just you guys were living like it was great. True or false?

Both true and false. The financial predicament happened years later, and then we got on terms.

Right. But my point is, it was great for a while, and then it wasn't great, and we're still living a long time ago. And so I don't think you're restricted. I think that you're dealing with a form of depression. I'm not clinically diagnosed. I'm saying this is like financial depression because it's like, I had this life. This is what it was like. And now I'm just chipping away, and I'm not even having any fun. There's no fun at all. And welcome to the journey. There are people sitting in this lobby today that have felt that. If you felt that before, raise your hand out there. Yeah. I mean, millions of people that have turned their life around at some point in the baby steps. Baby step one and two, George, are grueling.

Yeah. Do you have $1,000 right now, Amber?

No.

Has that been hard for you to come up with?

I had it. And I had it, and then something happened that we really shouldn't... I had a lien placed on something, and I had to get the lien off in order to replace what I needed to replace. Well, that lien should never have been placed because that particular balance was included in the bankruptcy. But because I legally needed to drive, I had to pay the lien, so there went my entire savings.

Okay, but $4,000 let's say, will pass through your hands in the next 30 days, correct? Yes. Before you pay the bills, can you set aside a thousand over in a savings account outside of your checking account and still pay your bills?

Yes.

Okay.

So there's baby step one.

The hard part of this is you just have to do it. And there's always going to be something that comes up, and you just have to make getting out of debt and getting to a better financial spot the priority before anything else. And there's going to be more setbacks where that came from, because here's the reality. You're right. Looking at the budget, it is restrictive because you're broke. You make 62K and you have 88K to pay off. That's hard math that you're facing. And So my hope for you is that we can go, how do we clear this debt fast? Like these cars, do we need both of these cars? Can we sell one or both of them and clear those payments and then buy something used in cash?

No, because They're both underwater.

By how much on each?

On one of them, probably 4,000, and on the other, maybe six or seven.

Okay, so now we have a solvable problem. If we come up with 10 or 11K, we can clear these payments and breathe a little bit more. Then we clear the next smallest debt, breathe a little bit more. You're going to have to get creative. I hope you can get your health in a manageable spot and just know this looks different now. Your life changed dramatically. The reality changed.

Hang on the line. I want to get you into every dollar. It's more than a budgeting app. It's going to walk you through this whole journey. Hang on the line. We're going to help you. Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's Day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, alongside the incomparable, the charming George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman.

You like what I did there? I was actually shocked. I thought there was someone else you were going to announce.

I think you are charming. I really do. I don't think you get enough credit for your charm, George. Thank you. People just love your brain. They do. They love it when you crunch the numbers here on the Ramsey Show.

I do like to crunch a good All right, Cindy's ready.

Cindy's joining us now in Ohio. Cindy, how can we help?

Well, good afternoon. First of all, my son wants me to say hi on his behalf.

What's his name?

I would prefer not to say it at the moment.

We get it.

We were trying to give him a shout out. We were going to do a shout out. That's all. But never mind. He'll know.

Is he listening or watching? What was the deal?

He is aware that I'm on the phone with you.

He will see this later?

He will see somewhere out. He will later.

Okay, let's do it. Hey, buddy.

Hey, Braxton. I'm just going to guess a name. I don't know. You can't make up a fake name. I can do what I want.

Now he's going to be confused. Cindy, I apologize for my co-host. That's okay. Well, tell your son we said hello. We'd love to meet him sometime.

All All right. I will tell him. What's up? Okay. So my question has to do with my next step in the baby steps. So I am single. I have a six-month, fully-funded emergency fund, so I'm excited to start on my 15 % investing. Awesome. However, I'm not sure if I should because my company that I work for was recently purchased, and so there's some job uncertainty. So I know that's maybe a reason to say of cash. However, I was notified that if I stay with the company for at least another year, that they will give me a retention bonus.

Okay, hold on.

Let's pause. Let's pause real quick because this is interesting. You're feeling, because of the acquisition, that your job may be in trouble, and yet they just gave you a notification that if you stay for another year, you get a benefit.

Yes.

That's a good sign to me. Yes? What am I missing?

It is. They did say that if they haven't decided exactly which path they're going to go. They're still in the figuring things out stage. So they did say that they could end my employment at any point in time.

Oh, I missed that part. I must have interrupted you before that. Okay, I got you. All right. I'm sorry.

That bonus would be payable to me regardless. If it's a year from now or if they determine that my position will be eliminated, I still get that bonus.

Okay. Any hint or ideas or hunches on when they're going to make this That I don't know.

But I also do know for a fact that if my position is eliminated, I will get that retention bonus along with a severance, which is- How much? In excess of 10 months of my current salary.

Give us that number.

It would be over $100,000.

Okay. I'm thinking that Cindy would be okay with that $100,000. That'd give you a little bit of to find another job. Is that true?

Yes.

Okay, so I'm taking a deep breath if I'm you, yes? Yes. Okay. I'm only sure I'm not missing anything.

No. I think that I'm okay to go ahead and start investing since I know that I've got six months in the bank already, plus some.

How much is in the bank? What's the number?

I've got about 35,000 in the bank, and my emergency fund would be about 19,000.

Okay. You're more than okay. I would not pile up another dime. I would just go ahead and ratchet that investing up to 15 %. And you have a good retirement account through your employer?

I do. I have about 300 and something in there.

Way to go, Cindy. Come on, let's go. Single mom?

Yes.

How old are you? Hey, listen, that's amazing. How old are you? Oh, we were not supposed to ask.

I am 47.

Okay, wonderful.

Very young, by the way.

I'm just thinking how much this investment account will grow on top of you contributing to it. I I have no doubt that you will be a baby steps millionaire if you just keep following this path.

That is correct. Just for fun, George, I love when you do this. Give Cindy another reason to be very peaceful.

What's your income every year?

My base is about 136.

Love it. Okay.

He's running a number, Cindy, on what that 300 is going to look like. If you don't do this, it's going to be exciting. Are you ready for this?

Here we go.

Oh, boy, I sold the number.

47 to 67. You already have 300 grand. You're going to add 1,700 a month. If you do 15%, you're going to be at about 3. 5 million.

How did it get done?

I wouldn't be worried. Now, I hope you never lose your job and know that if you ever did, you're in the best situation possible, knowing that you have an emergency fund, you have no debt, and you have a severance package here. I would be sleeping well at night, just crushing it at your job. If they let go of you, you're going to be so valuable. Someone else will scoop you up, and you'll probably make more. That's right.

Awesome. Thank you.

Hey, I know you didn't call about this particular piece, but I want to give you this. I wrote a book years ago called The Proximity Principle, and the entire book could be summed up in one sentence. The right people plus the right places equals opportunity. And so anytime somebody calls or I run into somebody who's got a situation like this and they're like, I'm unsure about my employment, beyond all the money stuff that we just covered, the next thing I'm going to tell them is, Start connecting like crazy. You just start connecting in your industry, and you're not going out and telling everybody, The sky's falling, or that my job is. But you can say, Hey, I'm just part of an acquisition. And so not sure where that's going to go. It could turn out great, but really not sure right now. And so I'm out making connections, coffees, lunches. I am letting everybody know that I might very well be a agent. And you would be surprised how much peace that's going to give you, number one. But number two, you might be surprised that even though you might not be looking for anything, something might come to you.

And the idea here is I want to get around the right people. These are people that are in my industry and reconnect. And that means tell everybody because you got a real good reason to share that right now. Because anybody in your situation would feel the same way. You're not laid off. This thing might turn out to be great, but I really, really recommend that you do that. So Keep going. But also I'm always creating. It's like, I'm flying to Virginia later today. And at some point before we take off tonight, they'll show us the emergency exits. I want people doing the same thing professionally. If I were to be laid off or What would be my emergency exits? Really important. And a lot of people don't do that. And I think you can do that all the time and always put yourself in a good space. Last thing I want to say, Cindy, and I know George is going to want to say something, too. I'm putting you on the spot, pal. I want your son to hear from us that his mom has done a phenomenal job taking care of him. And, buddy, listen to the details today and sit down and talk to mom about what she's done and you learn from her.

But also, I want you to thank her. Give her a big hug because she has really done a phenomenal job taking care of you, pal.

No notes. That was perfect.

So thank you, Cindy.

I was just hoping you would have an analogy for the seat as a flotation device. The career field, is that the severance?

Well, no, I'll tell you what it is. Your connections are the flotation device.

And what about the mask? What are we doing with the mask?

The mask is the money stuff. So if I've got the emergency fund- The That's because the emergency fund.

I don't have debt. The mask is the emergency fund.

I know that I'm not in desperation. I'm not going to die. We take the mask, that's the money. Stability, that's the mask. And then the flotation device is, I got connections. I got jobs. People want me.

They love me. Keep going. We've all done dumb things with money. I've done them with zeros on the end. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it. You got to have a plan. You got to be intentional and you need to get a budget. You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went. Our budgeting app, Every Dollar, helps you do just that. It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan for every dollar you've got coming in and going out. Now is the best time to get started before the ridiculous holiday spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan. Don't let that happen. You're done making that mistake. Go download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today. All right, let's go to Joseph in Louisville, Kentucky.

Joseph, how can we help?

Hey, guys.

I appreciate you taking my call.

Sure.

I have a plumbing business. It's a one-man show, so it's only me.

One question is, should I have a separate emergency fund for that business? My other question is, I have some debt, like a van, and I also have some plumbing equipment debt.

I can write that off 100 %, but Should I just pay it off instead?

Yes. In short, number one, you should have a separate checking account and savings for the business as some reserves there. I do that. So you have that separated?

It is separated, but I didn't know if I actually needed a six-month emergency fund.

No, a business wouldn't operate like your personal household would, but your reserves will act like that. And as you've When you run the business over a long period of time, you'll know what emergencies you might be facing in a business situation. And part of that is reducing your risk will leave you not needing to touch that. And so part of reducing risk is getting rid of that debt, because The debt isn't Joseph's plumbing business. You sign the dotted line on that. So it's your personal debt.

Correct.

So I would pay it off. I'm not a fan of this. Like, well, I can write it off. It's not a dollar for dollar deduction Here's the situation here.

Right.

And so- That's not a big deal.

What's not a big deal? I could pay it off. I have $127,000 in my personal account.

Awesome. And what's the debt?

I have $25,000 in my business account. I have a $20,000 emergency fund separate from that in my savings account. Everything is paid off except for my house. I owe 32,000, and my payment is 211. 61 a month.

What's left on the van? $40,000 on the van and $25,000 on equipment. So I can pay it off without a problem.

So what is keeping you from doing that?

It's almost like rent to own. So I was thinking it may be safer to keep that money on hand.

But also, I have no problem with...

I'm not in love with the money. I have no problem with letting it go and paying the debt off.

Yeah, it's not rent-owned. That analogy is weird for me. But this is a van that is depreciating every day, and the debt is not doing anything. And what's your interest payment on that? 6.

39.

What's the monthly payment on the van? 6.

69.

Yeah, none of this makes any sense.

You said there's 211 plus 669? No, the 211 is home payment.

211 is how much the house payment is.

Oh, Okay. $211 a month. How much will you free up by paying off these debts?

Fourteen hundred?

A month?

Yes. Oh my goodness. And you have the money, you have the cash to pay off the plumbing equipment plus your house.

Right. If you just wrote a check today and were done with all of this and invested all of those payments, you'd be so wealthy, you would laugh at the tax write off money you'd be making. Now, I am 50 and I have zero retirement. Even more. Well, this will free you up to put $1,400 away into a retirement account now. What stopped you from investing?

I just started this business a couple of years ago, so My cash flow hasn't always been what it is today.

So you're full-time plumbing?

I haven't paid off the house.

Yeah, full-time.

Good for you. I have not paid off the house because at 2: 11 a month, I would rather have the $32,000. I could collect a can and pay 2: 11 a month. That has been my logic on that.

No, we've heard that a million times. How much is the van worth?

It's brand new.

I just bought it in February.

Well, how much is it worth? I know what you owe on it. What could you sell it for?

I honestly have no idea. I paid 54,000 for it, so I've already paid it down 14,000 since February.

All I mean, a van, it's got all your plumbing tools in it, correct?

Correct. Nobody's riding in it. Just you. Just me. So you could get a cheap van, get it wrapped nice, and probably save 20 grand right there. You sold it and got a cheaper one.

That's where I'm going.

Well, the equipment I have will absolutely not fit in a minivan. I never said minivan. Nobody said a minivan. I'm just saying you didn't need to buy a brand new van. Oh, I thought you said a minivan. I'm sorry. No, no, no.

I actually would really respect a guy who rolls to be my plumber in a minivan.

I know I'm not getting ripped off if a guy shows up in a minivan.

I was getting ready to say, For some reason I trust a plumber in a minivan.

I see a plumber in a fancy new van, I go, he's going to price gouge me because he's got payments on that thing.

I agree with the big fancy wrap. I just want to see a little square sign on the side of a red minivan.

Well, let me play this game with you. If you freed up the mortgage plus your debt payments, is that now 1,600 a month?

Correct. Yes.

Could you invest more on top of that? Oh, yeah. Okay. How much could you invest every month on top of the 1,600 to get debt for retirement? On top of the 1,600?

I could do another 2,000.

It's 3,600 a month. You could just start shoveling into investments. Yes. Okay. Well, from age 50 to 67, you shovel 3,600 away, you could end up with almost $2 million.

Correct.

Yeah. I've done the math on that. Well, math is one thing. Doing it is a whole That's another thing, isn't it? Well, I just now got turned on to Dave Ramsey, so I'm learning. Good. Yeah, he's impossible.

And I just wanted to make sure this was the right step before I paid- Yeah, we recommend any business, any entrepreneur, do it with cash and move at the speed of cash.

Do it slow. Don't get ahead of yourself. Don't say you're investing in the business by taking on payments or new fancy equipment. Just cash flow it. And it's going to reduce your risk, increase your peace, increase your chance of surviving if something were to happen in the business. And I I hope the business continues to thrive. Sounds like you're doing great. Yeah, me too.

I appreciate that. Yeah.

I'm appreciative of taking the time to speak with me.

Yeah, Joseph, listen, you're doing great. I would love for America to hear this. How long ago did you become a plumber and what was the qualification process like? What was the length of that and the cost to become a plumber?

Well, so I started my business. I just got started in this four years ago.

Okay. How long was the qualification process?

When someone wants to become a plumber, they have to be an apprentice for a couple of years, and they have to be a journeyman for a couple of years. So you're looking at four years.

Right.

Okay. And you did that?

You only need a master's if you're doing If you're pulling permits, you don't have to have a master's.

How much did it cost for you to become qualified?

It doesn't cost anything.

I mean, it cost the price of a test.

I'm just asking you a straightforward question. I can't get the answer. A couple of hundred dollars. There we go. A couple of hundred bucks for you to get that training.

Now you're making what as a solopreneur?

Well, this year be 250 before taxes.

Ding, ding, ding. This is what I wanted people to hear. Did you hear that? All right. The trades are exploding. This is a guy who's crushing it. Way to go, Joseph. Thanks for sharing that.

For every five plumbers that are getting out of the business, there are only two to replace them.

Exactly.

Which means we desperately need people like Joseph to get in the game.

There's a massive opportunity right now in the trades, and this This is a real life example.

So four years, which is what undergrad would take you, a few hundred bucks, which is a heck of a lot cheaper than undergrad, and you could be making a quarter of a million dollars running your own business, owning your time.

You didn't notice any student loans in there, did you? Nothing. Nothing. In there. Telling you, folks, this is amazing. Little PSA to America's parents that listen to the show and grandparents who have influence over young people. The world is changing, and this idea that a college degree is the only way to succeed is crumbling, and it's crumbling faster. Gallup put out new data, George. First of this year, 46% of American parents, listen to this, folks, 46% of American parents would prefer their kids go into trades instead of a college path, and that is because they see the handwriting on the wall. I'm telling you, we got to stop looking down our nose at the trades because you're going to look up five years from now, 10 years from now, there's going to be a lot of millionaires in this country who did exactly what Joseph did. It may be a little dirty during the day, but you can come home to Egyptian cotton sheets. All right? This is good, honorable work, and it creates jobs. Remember, small business is what fuels the American economy. There you go. Thank you very much, America.

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Today's question comes from Tucker in Washington. The company I've been with for just a few months is experiencing financial struggles. Upper management has mentioned in a couple of company-wide meetings that there are only 10 months of cash left, and we have had negative cash flow month after month. I left my previous job because my manager was extremely toxic and the company culture wasn't good. Will two employment stints of less than a year be a red flag on my resume? I just got married six months ago, and we want to start a family soon, so my job will be our sole source of income. Would it be wise to begin looking for another job, or should I wait and see what happens with the company in a year?

Yes.

I think you should start looking yesterday.

Here's the narrative, because I understand the question, George. Two jobs on the resume, you got to tell the truth. You don't bash them. You say, Okay, here's what happened in the last job. Got this other job. This is the story I was told. Story changed. Here's where we're at. I've had some really bad luck, and that's different than you flaking.

It's not you job hopping.

Yeah. So just control the narrative and absolutely be looking, and don't have any shame over this. You just got to take control of the situation. Now, I will tell you this, the job market is a lot tougher right now. It's what we call a soft job market, where companies are sitting tight, waiting to see what's going to happen with all A lot of tariffs. That's one of the big things. A lot of uncertainty right now as to what's going on there. The economy is with interest rates, what the Fed going to do. When you get into a lot of uncertainty in the macro economy, Companies tend to just slow down when it comes to hiring. We're seeing that. This is a soft market. Unemployment is up into the low four. So, yeah, I would not ride this out, ride the wave. Not smart.

Then just Wait till the buzzer beater when they lay you off to go, Oh, I guess I should look for a job.

Especially in this case, because he's the sole income.

The writing is very much on the wall here. They're telling you straight up.

You know what else? I want to make sure to cover this. If your My wife has the ability, I don't know what the family situation is, but if she has the ability to work, I would absolutely for a season, if you can do it, and it makes financial sense to do it, I would do it in this time as well. Stacking up a little bit of extra cash that might be able to help us if this thing goes and falls before you can get another job. This is when we act like a storm is coming, and what do we do when we know a storm is coming? Let's act accordingly. Really, really important. Ethan is up in Athens, Georgia. Ethan, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. I really appreciate it. Sure. I was driving a 2005 Toyota Camry, and it got totaled. I have a year left in law school, and I'm trying to set a budget.

I'm buying a new Well, not a new car, but a used car.

Did you get any money for the Camry?

Yes. I got 6,000 for the Camry. I have about 10,000 liquid cash, and then another 40,000 right now in stocks.

On retirement, you've just been investing on the side in single stocks?

Yeah. Well, not single. I've been trying to buy the bonds and mutual funds and stuff like that. But yeah.

Okay. Do you have any debt? No debt whatsoever. Wow. You're going to law school debt-free?

Yes, sir.

How did you do that? Did you get a full ride or what?

Yeah, I did.

Wow. Okay. How about that? Stud. All right. So you're asking us how much car should you Pretty much, yeah. Well, I mean, you're going to want something that'll get you through law school and beyond. And so you can spend more than 6K. You're in a good spot financially. Are you working at all? Do you have any income right now?

Right now, I have no income, but I already have a job set for next October once I pass the bar.

Fantastic. And will it be in the current area or are you moving somewhere?

A bit more towards Atlanta.

Yeah. Well, George, I don't know if you got a formula for this because he doesn't have an income and he has no debt, and he's going to be making really good money. What money are you going to be making first year?

I'll be making 190 my first year.

Bro, Ethan-Debt free?

Making that money?

With a full ride?

Are you single? Yeah, not right now.

Not for long with those numbers. There it is. Hey, the ladies will be coming around for that one.

I would just be reasonable. For any young person, especially dudes, they tend to overbuy in because they want to flex. I hope that's not you. You don't seem like the type. So I would just buy something reasonable. What have you been looking at? I know you've been car shopping a little bit.

Yeah, I've been just looking at you, Kamri, something like late teens with less than 100,000 miles. That's something newer, but I'm not spending everything that I have.

How much are those cars?

Between 15 and 20,000.

Perfect.

I was going to throw the number of 20 out and let George react to me just based on your situation.

Yeah, 20 felt like my upper limit for just a young dude. You don't even think flashy.

Top line 20 is what I was going to say.

Okay.

If you need to sell some stocks to do it, I would. I wouldn't be in any single stocks. I don't know why you're even in bonds at this age. You're not 70. You shouldn't be worried about long-term market returns.

If you want short-term- I think he's an old soul. I'm going to guess he's an old soul.

Is that true?

Yeah, something I inherited to my grandpa.

Okay, there we go.

I could hear it on you. You are very mature.

I would go car shopping. I would stick to independent used car dealerships and Facebook marketplace, get a pre-purchase inspection on whatever you get. I would also search the exact year, make, model, do your research and know exactly what recalls have been made on that exact model? What are the classic repairs that tend to happen on that car? And that will give you a lot of confidence as you step into it.

All right, awesome. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate it.

You're welcome. Listen, buyer, beware. Tight-lipped When you go to the car dealer.

Don't tell them you're paying cash right up front.

Don't tell them that. Don't tell them you're in law school. Don't tell them you got a $190,000 job waiting on you. They will be on you like vultures on road kill. I mean, all over you. So just keep It's a bit tight, like you're playing some poker.

Focus on the out the door. This is what I got. I'd like to just talk about the out the door price. That's right. That's it. That's what I want to focus on. I don't want to talk about payments. That's right. Here's my budget. If you walk in with a check for that amount, and you have some walk away Power? Oh, boy. I love that game.

These guys will start singing. They really will. They'll line up like a choir for you. You know what I mean? They'll be the manager, the assistant manager. You ever seen these guys? It's hilarious. There's always seven people in the back.

They always have to go into the back to talk to some mysterious figure.

Always love that.

My manager is going to take me to the cleaners if I give you this deal, man. But I'll do it for you. Hold on one second.

Don't tell anyone. Give me a few minutes. I got to go back in. It's like he's the Wizard of Oz.

Do they all go to the same heebie-jeebie, schliezy school?

I think they have a little room with a water-cooler, and they go, and they just look at their phone for two or three minutes, and then they come back, and then they play the next negotiation game.

They take a little vape break and then come back and say, All right. I think it is a vape break. I could get in a lot of trouble for this one, but we can make it work.

This is the best I can do. I love that one. I can't stand it. I can't either. Can I walk back there with you? Because I think we could speed this negotiation up. If you walked me to the Wizard of Oz, I'm sure it's okay. I'm sure he's going to be fine if I go back there with you. But it's the whole, you all stay out of here. Can I get you something to drink? Can I get you a bottle of water? Now you can get me a good deal.

That's all I'm here for.

I don't care about the bottle of water. In fact, my wife and I brought a cooler. We have our own bottle of water.

My wife can't go into those places. She has to sit in the car because she's too uncomfortable. Too stressful, isn't it? Yeah, I like the conflict. I like the negotiation. You do.

You know what you do? You get right to the fees. Yeah, I just hope they don't A window price, too. What are the fees on this? I know you.

Oh, I don't do. If they have anything other than a small dock fee, I'm walking away. They start pitching me on, Hey, we did the window tent and we get the... Nope, I'm out. Take that off of here. I'm getting out of here. Sales price plus tax, maybe $100 dock fee or I leave.

You might as well be on Shark Tank. I bet you sit there and you cross your arms.

The guys at the dealership, they see me coming in, they go, Not today. I don't want to deal with this guy. My last car, though, the finance office called and said, Hey, we noticed you were paying cash, and we just think that's a terrible idea. It's a much better, smarter to find.

Did you scream, Do you know who I am?

I almost went, Hey, just Google me. I can't deal with this right now.

That's a flex. That's a flex. Hey, listen, Mr. Finance Manager. I'm going to send you a link. I'd like to click on it.

It's called Breaking Free from Broke. You should read it.

Look at that, folks. He snuck the book promo in just like that. I didn't even see it coming. It's a great book, wherever books are sold.

Our scripture of the day comes from Hebrews 13: 7. Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Our quote from John F. Kennedy, Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names. All right. Two interesting things there. Contrasting. I'll chew on that. Chew on that. Tyler is up in Maryland. Tyler, how can we help?

Hey, how are you?

Good. How are you?

I'm all right.

How can we help?

Well, I was calling in because I find myself in a situation, my wife and I. We recently moved October of 2024 from our first home to this being our second. It was pretty much at the top of our price range. Pardon me. I lived in eight different homes growing up, and we have a two-year-old son and just found out we have another one on the way. And it was really... Yeah, he's a tornado. But it was really important to me that we both wanted him to have a house that he grew up. All of our kids just had a house they grew up in. So we stretched We knew that we would be a little house poor, but we figured if we can tighten our belt and spend wisely that eventually our salaries will, I guess, catch up to where our mortgage was. And that was before I really got into Dave Ramsey and learned more about the finances. So since then, we've been on a year here, and the mortgage is about $4,500 a month, and our net income per month is about $9,400. So I think it's like a 47 %, which is double what I know is recommended.

So in addition to that, we only have one car payment, which is my truck. I have three years left on it, about 15,000 left.

What's the payment?

Payment is about 536 a month. My wife also has student loans, which is probably a total of 20,000. And it was through the carrier that she was using, I guess, had a class action lawsuit. I guess somebody advised her not to pay it, so we stopped. And that's now bringing her credit down. So now we're trying to get current on that. And then we have credit card debt, which is probably a total of around $20,000 between three different cards. So pretty much what I'm thinking, what I think is inevitable at this point with having a family and with now realizing how expensive kids are and unknown expenses and activities for them and toys for them. I'm thinking getting out of this house might be the best thing for our family to downsize the smaller house with a much lower mortgage. I just want to get your take on that.

What could you sell the house for and what's left on the mortgage?

So we bought it for about 600, and this is about a year ago. We're thinking about refinancing, which would then put another 15 onto it because of the fees. But I think we won't get 600. I don't think. I think it's going to be a short sale.

Why would it be a short sale?

Well, I don't… It was on the market for probably about four months. It started out at 750, and it went all the way down to 600 before we bought it.

How much did you put down?

We didn't put anything out. Bought it to the VA.

Man, this is heartbreaking.

Yeah. I'm having buyer's remorse, and I think I'm starting to realize what's probably inevitable, where my wife is very in love with the house and it's perfect for our big family, which is what she wants. But I just come home and I just feel like there's no peace at all.

I know that- Is she aware of this? Is she aware of how you're She's aware.

Yeah, we've talked about her game plan, which is what we're doing now. I'm giving her the grace of just seeing how it works was tightening our belt more and not spending as much as Whatever surplus we have at the end of each week or each month, our checking account will just apply to our bills. But when I do our budget between our net income and all the bills, or the credit cards, loans, etc. We're like 1,300 in the hole.

So you're going to continually go into debt at this rate?

Yeah.

You can't even live off of $9,400 a month.

Yeah So there's no tightening.

And is she working full-time?

Yeah, we both work full-time.

So there's no dream here where we go, well, we're making double now because she's working full-time. So if there's If you're going to have no room here to wiggle on income, you don't see your income shooting up in the next six months, and you're going to continually go into debt, then I think we just have to cut our losses and get out of this house. I would try to still get as much as you can for it. Yeah, I. But you don't have any equity, so it doesn't solve your problems. It's going to cost you money to get out of this house, and you don't even have that money. What could you sell the truck for?

On KVD, it looked like it was a value of around $10,000, so I'm a little upside down on it, which is what I'm trying to put my... I drill monthly for the army, so I'm trying to put those checks toward this to pay it down as quickly as possible. Man.

And this, I'm trying to figure out how you have $5,000 or $6,000 or $7,000 of expenses on top of the mortgage. Yeah. You guys are spending like you're in Congress. There's a lot of just entertainment, luxury eating out here, I think I think it's more than just covering the bills.

Yeah, I agree. My wife, you know. Well, when we got in the house, we were spending like, Kings and Queens. It was our own fault. We had a tough conversation about it about a month ago. And we're like, we really tried. We went to a cash budget where we'll take out X amount each week once we get paid, and this is what we have to spend. There's no credit card We're not putting anything on a debit card. But even in that, we're still in the hole. It's just between kids' stuff and now a new one on the way. I just don't see it working out in our favor by staying in this house.

Yeah, I mean, could you go rent somewhere for two grand, three grand?

Yeah, in our area, there's some places that are rent for about 25 or 3000.

So that'll save you the two grand that you're losing. So instead of going 15 grand into debt, maybe we could save five grand.

Here's a question I have, George and Tyler, I'm asking this on your behalf. Every dollar, which is obviously, it's not just a budgeting app. I mean, It's FPU. It's the baby steps. I mean, it's helping people. When we talk about on the show, we're telling people, this is real, that in less than 15 minutes, people are finding thousands of dollars in margin. We know that from every dollar. That's what we're hearing. My question is, if you're sitting in his kitchen right now. Okay? How much? I think you could find money in this current situation.

Oh, yeah. That's why I'm saying whenever I see, Well, the mortgage is 4,500. They're bringing in 10 grand. There's room here. There's some spending that we can ratchet down.

I think there is. There's more cutting.

It's going to be a fight. It's going to be, Well, I'm used to doing this, and now you're taking this away from me. And so I don't want this to be you versus her. This needs to be you walking hand in hand, looking in the same direction, going, We need to come to Jesus meeting because we're going to go 15 into the hole the way we're spending. We already can't get out of this as is. We need to do something drastic. And that means selling the house and renting and cutting our spending and working a second job for at least two years to clean this up.

I really want you guys in every dollar, and that's going to be our gift to you. Kelly is going to take care of it. You and your wife got to commit to using it. Do you understand what I'm saying? Because it literally, it will coach you up. It is so unbelievable all the new things they've added to it. You guys are going to commit to getting in control of the spending and finding ways to make some more money after selling this house, just to give you more margin. By the way, George, I want to mention this is super exciting. The premiere of the All New Every Dollar is September 25th. You're going to see some amazing success story. You're a part of that. That's right. We want you to turn on your YouTube notifications to get notified when the premiere drops. I've said it a couple of times today, just naturally. George, 10 seconds, or give us five seconds on the new Every Dollar. It's unreal.

Well, it's going to digitally coach you like we would on The Ramsey Show and walk with you step by step through the baby steps on top of helping you do your budget.

All right, remember, there's only one way to get financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.