Transcript of Do the Right Thing Even When It’s Hard

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. We're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Rachael Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloitte.

What up?

If you want to give us a call at 888-825-5225, we are taking your calls about life and money. First up, we have Sarah in New Jersey. Hey, Sara, welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Absolutely. How can we help today?

Okay. So my dad passed away a few months ago, which, Hallelujah, he's with the Lord. And my oldest brother has power of fraternity. He's had it for years. He's the executor and the trustee. He said that there is basically nothing left to inherit, and my other brother and I know differently. So we want to know, is there anything that we can do to try to recoup what dad wanted us and our children to have?

I actually just talked to some people who have experienced something similar, and yes, but it's going to require getting law enforcement involved.

Okay. Sarah, how do you know that there's something else? Was there another document? Was it just what he told you verbally? Or how do you know something else is there?

In 2017, I saw a document, an investment document, and dad had at least $250,000 in an estate. And then between his pension and Social Security, he would have added, minimally, another $250,000. We're thinking more like $300,000 to $4,000, $100,000 over the last seven years. Okay.

And when he passed away, did he have any liabilities? Did he have debt? No. He was completely debt-free. How about the home?

No, that was my brother's home.

Oh, so he lived with your brother?

Right. Okay. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. He lived with my brother. He and my mom lived with my brother for seven years.

Okay. So is there a chance that your brother decided that this is what he was owed for having taken care of him or trying to backpay himself or something?

No, because my dad paid rent every month. Okay.

Have you seen the will?

Yes. I had to go on to the county and actually get my own copy. We did not know that there was a trust, except that we finally saw in the will that there was a trust. The only money he put in the trust was an account with about $30,000. Because I think most of my dad's other money was basically cash in his account.

So my bigger concern here is your thinking. To Rachel's point, it's like 2017, you saw this. Who knows if your dad and your brother thought it was a good idea in 2019 to move everything into crypto and he lost it all? Who knows?

Oh, no, he did not.

I know you think he didn't, but I'm telling you right now, when documents come out and families sit down around the table, there's always... That's why Dave Ramsey, for years, have been saying, Let everybody in your family know on a regular basis what the status of stuff is. Because people think think and they assume. And you probably, if you're like me, have already spent what you think the number is minus your third. In your head, you've already allocated that, and now it feels even hard, right? No. I do that all the time, man. I do that all the time.

No, Because I've dealt with my brother for years.

Okay, so what's your brother saying to you, Sarah? When you and your other brother come to him and say, Hey, where's our inheritance from dad? What does he say?

Well, he told my other brother that in 2021, that dad gave him money for his divorce settlement and to pay his attorney. And my brother said, Where's the rest of the money? And he goes, Oh, dad said I could just have the rest.

Yeah. So you're going to have to call a non-emergency line and let them know, and they may direct you back to the courthouse. They may send out a... Because here's what it is. It's theft.

Oh, yeah, I know.

I know, but think about it this way. It's as though he stole a bicycle from you. Right. But he stole money. And you're going to have to go sit down and they're going to do some forensic accounting, and somebody's going to have to get on the case, and it's going to take weeks, and or months, or whatever, but they have to go through it all and figure out where that money actually is.

Right. Okay. So you think we need- Well, and I think we asked you that...

Sarah, we did ask you this, but I can't remember. I'm sorry, what you said. You have seen the will, correct?

Oh, yes. I've seen the will, and I have a copy of it for us.

And what is supposed to be owed to you? What does it say on the will?

The will says that it's supposed to be split between the three of us. Okay.

The total amount of what was. So what you're going to have to do is figure out what the total was at his death, everything. And since there is no death, there's nothing else to pay. So it would be that total. And you have not seen that, correct?

No. Oh, no. Because he's supposed to, of course, give us an accounting, and he has not done that.

And usually, they have two years to do something like... I mean, every state's different. The folks I was talking to, there was two years, and it was to settle the account, right? To sell all the assets and then divvy them up and all that stuff.

Right. Yeah. Now, the will is a poor over will, so everything is supposed to go in the trust. And the trust says that he We're supposed to get half of it, and then the rest is split between the two of us.

Do you guys have an attorney that's working with you?

Well, that's where we're going from this point, whether we need to get an attorney or do we go right to the police?

You know what? Yeah, do that first. Rachel, you're right. Don't call a local Sheriff's office yet. Go get an attorney and let them know what you're working through.

You'll pay them some retainer up front to be able to go through everything.

That's the right move.

And is this in character or your brother? Is this shocking to you? Are you thinking like, Oh, my gosh, or is it like, Oh, no, I'm not shocked that he's doing this?

No, it's not shocking to me. I realized many years ago, he's a narcissist. But unfortunately, my other brother was was devastated that he would do this to us. And he said, What a Christian man is he to do this to dad and our families? Yeah. Because he professes to be a Christian.

Well, you have to put that stuff aside. Oh, yeah. I would get an attorney to file a legal motion to give you access to the... To give a full accounting of the estate.

Yeah, of everything. Of the estate. Yeah. And my prayer is, Sarah, that, yeah, this all gets worked out, and there is close to half a million in there, and your dad's legacy lives on. But also the cynical side of us that sit in this chair, and we hear every story imaginable. To John's point earlier, I mean, leave a little bit of a real It's a realistic idea, too, Sara, that who knows? You may get into this and think, Oh, my gosh, this whole story that I made up in my head of what I thought actually isn't even reality.

Yeah, he may show you the receipts and say, Hey, there was no money in that account. I don't know what you saw, but there's nothing there. Or it will say, Hey, this account was liquidated on this date, and that money was deposited in this account. It's an easy trail to follow.

Yeah, for sure. There should be a good paper trail for it.

And by the way, maybe telling your brother, Hey, here's the deal. We know there's money in an account. We're about to hire an attorney. This is going to become a criminal matter.

You can do what's right. Yeah, it's illegal what he's doing. Exactly.

Or we're going to go down this road. You're going to end up in jail for stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Right. Yeah. That's what... I mean, Because my brother and I have discussed all these different things.

Can I tell you this? Stop talking about it. Go act. You all are making yourselves crazy.

That's why I called you, because I thought before we act, I want to call you and see what advice. And that's what we've been thinking.

No more stories. No more like, Can you believe I thought it was a Christian. We're not doing any of that. We're just going to call the attorney before the day is over. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. No, absolutely right.

Sarah, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry for the passing of your dad and that money gets It gets caught up in relationships and families. It blows our families, man. It does. Absolutely. So, Sarah, I'm really... I'm sorry for you guys, and I hope you get clarity. I hope you get the answers that you're looking for, for sure. So thanks for calling.

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Up next, we have Matthew in Pennsylvania. Hey, Matthew. Welcome to the show.

Hey, guys. How's it going?

We're doing well. How are you?

I am doing so great right now. Great.

Fantastic. I'm so glad.

What's up?

Yeah. First of all, sorry if I sound like a very overhyped. I just love you guys so much. I've heard about you guys so much. I've seen so many of your videos, and I'm a big, big fan. So this is just a true blessing.

It really is. We love it. We have to hang out with George Campbell backstage, and he's I'm such a downer. So it's good to hear somebody that's positive, man. It's great.

Oh, man. I love George Campbell, too, but I love Dave and Jade also. They will tell it straight up.

That is true. Yeah.

Are too nice. So what's up, dude?

How can we help?

Awesome. So this is a two-part question for me. I am 26 years old, and I've had some thoughts about potentially dating again. I was in a relationship, but I moved off that a year or so ago. But going forward to my next relationship, I just wanted to know, how do I deal with the relationship? And also, financials also. How do I ask the question, how do you feel about debt? And when should I ask that question?

First date, dude. First- Stop. I'm just totally kidding. Don't do that.

Matthew's like, Can I really see your tax returns to know?

There's Ramsey weirdos, and then there's those that ask about debt on the first date. Don't be that person.

I don't know. John is the relationship expert, but I would think, Matthew, as you're dating someone, important conversations, hopefully, are being had in general, right? Learning about the person, understanding them, you're hearing about their family, their likes, their dislikes, what they think about spirituality, what do they value around money? I don't know. I see it always. People ask this question And for me, and again, maybe it's because I talk about money all the time, so I'm super comfortable with it. But to me, it's just part of building a relationship. It's a part of a person. And as you get to know that person, you're going to know and ask questions and be curious about that part of their life in general as you're dating. And to John's point, it's not usually on the first date, but if you continue to go on dates, it's like, What are you talking about? We should be having good conversation, right, of getting to know the person, and that's just part of a person.

I'll say this, too, Matthew. This is something I learned, and I was I'm surprised by it. When I was doing my counseling practice, coming back in graduate school, I remember being caught off guard by clients would come in and tell me literally everything. They'd tell me about their sex intimacy lives on session one. They would tell me about traumas. They would tell me about everything in their life. If I ever asked them, Hey, how much money are you making? What's your financial situation? How much do you owe other people? Nothing. They wouldn't have that conversation. It is a Our culture has turned it into such a binary, you're a winner or you're a loser based on this number. For people like me and Rachel, we just talk about everything all the time, but it's a sensitive question.

Yes. Okay. So you're saying more, though, John, in what you have, what you don't have, your number, all of that. I don't know, but when it comes to values of like, Oh, hey, because he's asking about debt or different things. It's not necessarily about what they have. Now, if you get into those numbers, which you need to, that can probably feel more personal. But from a values conversation, do you think it still is touchy?

No, I think to... Let me put it this way. I would not not date somebody because they owed money. I would I wouldn't not marry somebody because they were in debt. If they said, I have student loans. I'm never paying these back. I think that's stupid. I don't care about any that stuff, then we're going to talk about values, right? But But I think there's an entry point into, so tell me about your job. Are you successful? Do you like where you are? What are your dreams for yourself? That turns into, well, I owe this much money. Like, oh, gosh, how quick are you going to pay that stuff off? And it can be a fun inquisitive, curious conversation. And then if that person says, I'm never doing that, you can be like, oh, I'm one of those Dave Ramsey crazy people. What's that? And you can talk through that. I don't like owning anybody anything. And that's a way to get into a values-laden conversation. My fear is always that people who are raised, who come from Ramsey households or who discover this thing and get so passionate about the freedom they feel- That's the first thing to talk about.

It's like, Hey, are you getting out of debt? What baby step are you on? And they're like, What are you talking about? And so I don't want you to sit down with a person you've gone on one, two, or three dates with and be like, All right, how much money do you make? And begin going through George Campbell or Rachel Cruz questions.

Are you going up to the match? Is your 401(k) or are you Are you funding your 401(k) fully?

Those questions would be bananas in the first or second. It'd be like saying, Hey, tell me about your ex-boyfriend. What were your three favorite things and your three things you hated the worst? You wouldn't do that, right? But there's ways to get to some of those answers as you're learning about each other. And yes, it will naturally come up, but particularly focus on the values part of this conversation. And then when you start thinking about, I think this person maybe is the one, then you start getting into the nitty-gritty. We're talking about merging households and budgets and I don't want to marry somebody if we're not going to share a checking account. That's when you start having those deeper, more like, Are we doing this or not conversations?

Matthew, you said you want to jump back into the dating pool. Did you find that money was a barrier in past relationships at all, or you're newer to this and you're thinking, Okay, how do I navigate that part of my life with this new knowledge of how to handle money?

Well, I've listened to you guys for some time now, and I've heard a bunch of stories about how a one couple started dating, but then it didn't go the way they wanted just because of financials or how a couple got married. But then one's a spender, one's a saver, or the other way around, and it just turned into some a nightmare.

Well, that's going to be every relationship. Every relationship is going to have people that bring different strengths. I'm a spender, and my wife is a planner and a saver. And if I owe money, I can't sleep sleep at night. A mortgage doesn't bother my wife at all, not even a little bit. When we sit down, I know that I'm a spender. She's a saver. I know that debt makes me clinically nutty, and it makes her... It doesn't bother her. We're bringing both of our usses to the table to say, as for us, the household that we're building, who are we going to become? My wife knows she married somebody that just doesn't want to owe anybody anything. Great. Okay, cool. I know that I married somebody that is going to say, Hey, we plan. Let's stick to this plan. And I'm glad to have that accountability. So if you're trying to find someone who saves just like you save, you're destined for a pretty boring life. But you want to have somebody that has the same values as you do.

Yeah, that's really important, Matthew, because, yes, some of the calls we get on this show, to your point, there have been extreme circumstances that are heartbreaking, whether it's financial infidelity or one spouse just continues to spend and is not saving at all for retirement, and the other spouse feels like, Oh, my gosh, I'm not safe here because I don't feel like we're going to have any money. All of those, again, are the product of other things happening underneath the surface that they never really addressed to begin with. So I do think it's really important that you are putting weight to this subject in life because it can make or break a relationship 100 %. But what John's saying to make sure not to get legalistic in the sense of... And I'm like, John, I'm a spender. Winston's a saver. Winston has the Excel sheets and the five-year visions and the Excel sells with the formulas. It's crazy. I'm like, Okay, that's great. I don't want to look at that. I get a migraine. No, thank you. It's fine. But again, our values and where we're going as a couple in a family are exactly aligned.

But how we're doing it, maybe from our habits or the way we look at money, may be a little different, but it's not detrimental. It's just who we are. And you don't want to lose that either. You don't want to lose who you are because that's the beautiful part of a marriage, is you both bring yourself. But again, it's the deeper conversation of the values, Matthew.

Here's the way I'll say this. There's a difference between values and beliefs. That's good. People who are married have to share values, but you want your beliefs to be different. I don't want to read. It helps if there are lined up. That's great and cool. It makes things less volatile. But the reason I read new books is try to learn new things. So I have a belief about something, and I get to change my belief. That's why you listen to this podcast. That's why you have friends.

You read parenting books If you read parenting books. I believe this.

I don't believe that. But our value is we're always going to talk to each other before we make a decision. We're a family who believes in this. We're a family who... You see what I'm saying? So identify those values. And when you're dating somebody, you want somebody that's aligned on values. But when it comes to beliefs, I'm of the opinion that the more varied the beliefs, the more fun you can have if you're both anchored into the same values. And that leads to a richer, fuller, more adventurous, and more wisdom-filled marriage.

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Well, 2026 is just around the corner.

How is that possible?

It's crazy. Time just keeps flying. Is that true? The older you get, time flies.

I think it was Dax Sheppard that was talking about He thinks the reason time feels like it goes faster is when you're five, waiting till Christmas is 20 % of your life. When you're 40- Oh, it's so true. It's like a much smaller percentage of your life. And I was like, Yeah, I get that.

That's probably it. It feels right. Because it's wild. When you look up and you're like, Oh, my gosh, we're about to start decorate for Christmas. It's coming.

It's coming. Can't believe that.

2025 is almost over, you guys. 2026 is upon us. And the 2026 Ramsey Goal Planner is here, and it's packed with monthly content from Jade, myself, and John Deloney to help you stay on track when it comes to your relationships, your faith, and your money. And we sell out every single year. They're actually almost sold out. We got an email talking about it. They were like, We're towards the end of all the inventory that we have. So do not wait on this. Grab yours for 4,997@ramsysolutions. Com/store. Or if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast, we will leave a link below. All right, next we have Isaac in Virginia. Hey, Isaac. Welcome to the show.

Hey, how are you doing?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

So my wife and I inherited my grandparents house on our family farm, and We've looked into renovations and stuff for it, and we're running into the issue of it's just going to cost so much to renovate and do an addition. We can do a new house cheaper. And so we're like, Okay, we'll fix it up a little bit, rent it out. And we're running into problems with, I guess, family wanting us to know, don't build a new house, and not wanting more houses on the property. I guess what would the advice be as far as moving forward there? Do we push to be the right financial thing, or do we just tear it down and build a new one on the same spot?

Anytime a family, anytime, let's say I'm saying a couple. I would say a person, too, but you and your wife, right? Anytime you feel like you are hemmed in with an either or decision, do we either make a foolish financial decision or spend more money than we can afford right now to do a thing to keep family happy, or we blow everything up? I always want folks to back up out of that either/or situation and artificially put three, five, 10 other variables on the table just to go through the exercise of we're not trapped in this one or that one. Very few decisions are either/or. There's always more context there. My first question for you is, did your grandmother, did your grandfather, did they let you know, Hey, we want you to have this land and this house? Yeah. Okay, tell me about that conversation. We knew that in advance.

They didn't want us to buy a house, what, 13 years ago when we bought the house we're in, because they were sure they were going to die really soon.

Okay. And so they said, We want this to be you all's, right?

Yeah.

Okay. And what did you want?

Well, that's where we always wanted to be. But five years ago, for $300,000 of renovations and additions, we got a dream house. Now, you're looking at 6,000, 700,000. Which we could afford, but it's To us, it's just foolish. It's not like our income hasn't grown as much as how it happens right now.

Yeah, exactly.

How is your family chipping in on this?

In order to build a new house still on the property. I would have to put it on land that I own 50/50 with my father. And he's had a rough year. He and my mom left after 42 years. And so he never liked being pushed on anything before, and he really doesn't want to be pushed now.

So if we're honest, another variable on the table is you don't really have this option yet.

I don't have that option, but then it's like, Well, we're going to tear it down maybe and build a new one because I can build a new one cheaper than I can renovate or change square footage and finishes. I can build a brand new house and not have any compromises.

You could, but if the co-owner of that land says, No, you can't.

Well, No. The house as it is, I own outright.

Okay. You're saying if you keep it, rent it out, and built a new one, then where the new one could have been.

Yeah, that was our initial plan.

Could have been. Okay.

But now we're to the point of just tearing it down and building a new on the same site.

So could option three or five or 10 or wherever we are, could it be to do nothing for one year and just relax for a second? Let your dad heal a little bit, let the smoke clear a little bit? Maybe. Because it feels like there's this impulse, we got to do something, we got to do something, we got to do something, and you really don't.

Yeah. We don't have to. We're just drowning where we are. And I don't live on the farm as it is now. And so my life, my kid's life, our overall family life would be better.

Isaac, do you want to live in that house in general? Do you want to move on family property? Yeah. So you do. So the idea of being in that house, if it was a dream house, that's great. You guys are all good with that. Yeah.

It doesn't have to be in that house. We want to be on the farm. And we like the house as it is with the plans we have for the addition and stuff. It's not like a mansion.

Could you live in it for two years? Yeah.

Is it livable?

Could you just live in it for two years? Yes, you could.

We have to upgrade the flooring. We've already started doing some demo.

I mean, if you did paint and carpet, could you live in it? Plumming-wise, all of that. Okay. So what I would probably do, if that's where you guys want to be- We thought about that.

We just were worried we'd never do anything if we did that.

Yeah, but that's a problem for the future of you, right? You'll fix the carpet, make it livable. You'll exhale and be like, All right, we're going to do this for 24 months, and we're not going to owe anybody anything. We're going to sell our house, get out from driving.

You'll actually probably make better decisions doing that- I promise you. Living in it than saying, Oh, let's just make the biggest, best thing we could ever do renovation-wise. You'll probably end up saving money, honestly, once you're in it and saying, Okay, what do we want? But also, Isaac, this is always the sticky part when family gets involved with property and all of this, right, is that this was inherited to you and the land, right? You own the land as well, correct? I own the land the house is on, yeah. And how many acres is the land that you have now that came from your grandparents?

I have 10 acres, but it's the outbuildings. It's just a partial development.

Yes, and no one else How big's the farm? Where is everyone else living that's speaking into this decision with you?

My father lives next 60 yards away from my grandparents house.

Okay. Different plot of property, though, right? I mean, he owns that. That's what you're saying. Different plot of property. Who else is on the farm?

It's just us. It's just us.

So then who's mad that you would tear it down and build something new?

My father.

Okay. All right.

Well, there's the- So I would move in for a month, I mean, for a year, for two years. Because here's the problem I'm hearing that you need to solve right away. Right away in the life you have right now, you're drowning. You have a life raft right here. It's not a boat, but it's a life raft.

It's a free house.

It's a free house. Let's put five grand in it and paint it and get the flooring updated and maybe even get the kitchen counter redone. And let's exhale for 24 months, one year, two years. And then let's get dad. Dad's in a season of deep grieving. Who is he? What's going on? All that stuff. Having you Right there, having the grandkids around that might give him some extra life, and then you all can begin talking bigger picture. If it comes down to it in a year or two, you might say, Dad, this is mine. I'm going to tear this down and build it, and we're going to go rent a two bedroom apartment until that day comes. But my hope would be through relationship, you don't get there. But Rachel's right. If you go run in right now with a dream without having lived out there, without having just experienced the ups and the downs in the winter- I've done all that.

I grew up in my father's house.

Okay, that's fair. I've been on the farm my whole life.

I'm working on a full-time farmer daily. Where are you guys financially, Isaac? How much debt do you and your wife have?

I don't know the total. We have a separate farm business.

But that's business debt. Consumer debt. Do you guys have credit cards, car loans? Where are you guys at? No, we have two payments left on her car.

My truck's paid off. We have our mortgage, basically, and I think she has a little bit of student loan, but I think it's going to be paid off by the end of the year.

Okay, there's a lot of I thinks in there, Isaac. So you guys- I have financials, but I do know her student loans are all but done, and we have two car payments left on her flat. Perfect. How much do you guys have in savings?

Less than- Before you go knocking anything down, you need to know the numbers.

Okay. So I would be looking at savings, Isaac. How much equity do you have in your home? If you sold it right now versus what you owe, how much would you all walk away with?

Low side, 125.

125. Okay. So I would, for your sake, Isaac, you need to get your financial take in order. You need to be able to wrap all of these numbers, you and your wife on the same page. If it's a house that you guys can live in, I would sell yours. Go ahead and move in, and then from there, figure out, do we cash flow renovations, and/or do we tear it down and build something with a reasonable mortgage?

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Up next, we have Kam in Ohio. Hi, Kam. Welcome to the show. Hey, how are you guys? Hi, we're doing well. How can we help?

Hey, so I just feel like I'm always buried in debt, buried in stress, anxiety. I have a pretty good job. It's a sales job. I netded about 140,000 last year. My wife does her own thing, and she makes about $25,000 a year. We have debt with a main mortgage. We owe about 276,000 there. I have a second mortgage that I owe about 130,000. And then we have a truck loan for 18,000 and a car loan for $6,000. All of our payments combined monthly are about $4,500 a month. And I just want to know what the best way is to start getting out of debt and be less stressed. I've made some mistakes financially in my life that I want to get out of, and I just don't know what the best way to do it is. I mean, I'm We have about 11,000 in our savings. I dump $600 a month into my Roth IRA to max that out every year. I also pay $100 a month for life insurance for my wife and I. Can I tell you, Cam? I feel buried, and I don't know what to do.

I want to tell you this before we turn over to Rachel. She'll walk you through. She'll give you 100 % if you follow the path. It'll work, okay? But I want to tell you, we take calls. I've taken thousands of calls over the years. There's a particular regular tone that somebody, when they call in, that you can hear it in their voice, they're done. They're done with the stress, they're done with the anxiousness, and I can hear that in you. It fills me up with joy because I know I can give you a path out of this thing, okay? You just have to be willing to surrender and say, What I've been doing is not working. I make too much money to be this sick into my stomach all the time. Are you in?

Yeah, I am in.

That's awesome, man.

That's right. Kam, what is Is that on your second mortgage for? Is that on your primary home, like a Heloq, or do you guys have a second property?

Yes, so it's on our primary home. So we bought our home five years ago with a good interest rate. We have a 2. 8 % interest rate on that. But then it had an unfinished basement and needed a roof. So I got a second mortgage to finish the basement and put a roof on it.

Okay. And when did you guys do that? How long ago?

A year ago. Okay.

Okay, so I would lump that mortgage, both mortgages, into Baby Step 6. So our seven Baby Steps is really walking through how to get out of debt, get to a place where you're saving for retirement, and paying off the mortgage. So if basically a heat lock that you took out, you borrowed money on your house. If it's more than 50 % of your income, we lump that into a second mortgage. So what I'm going to be thinking through with you right now is the car payments is really what you have. I mean, it's about $24,000 in vehicle debt that you all have. Now, you have $11,000 in savings, which is great. You're funding 600 in retirement. You're doing that. You named off a couple of things, which are all good things. I would just reorder how you're doing them because you're trying to do 18 different things at once and you're not getting traction. Is that right? Is that how you feel? Yes. Yes. Okay. So what I would do if I were you, I would pause all retirement, including the Roth, because you're putting $600 a month, is what you said, right? To max it out, which is great.

But that's nice if you have 600 to give when you don't have all these payments, right? So I would pause all retirement of what you guys are doing. And do you all have kids? One. Yes, we have one. You have one. Okay. And is your wife, is she home with the kid? Yeah.

Okay. She works out of the house doing nails, but she likes to be a stay-at-home mom.

Yeah, good for her. Well, she's bringing in some great money doing that. That's awesome. About two grand During the month. I mean, yeah, that's a great side hustle. So if I woke up in your shoes, I would pause that retirement. I would throw 10,000 of the 11,000, which is going to make you really nervous, at the car. So I'd pay off your truck today. And then you would have 14,000 left on your truck. Now, how much is the payment for the $6,000 car? $250. $250. Okay, so that frees up $250. So even in this call, we just freed up close to $900 a month that you can now throw extra at the truck, which you'll have, again, $13,000 left. So I would work to pay this off completely. And you guys make great money. I mean, you're making 165. So I mean, I would do everything to get this paid off, gosh. I mean, maybe in the next six months or something, to have an aggressive goal. Because the faster you guys can do this and get some traction under you, the faster you're going to see some wins. Because what's great is you freed up that $250 payment.

Once the truck's paid off, how much is that payment a month? 3: 30. 3: 30. Okay. So then you get to that point. And what you're able to do then is go back or have some savings, go back and rebuild your savings after the cars are all paid off to about a three-month... I would probably do three-month emergency, three to four month for you guys. And then you can press play back on retirement, and then the big tackle then is going to be these mortgages. And I would keep them separate for now because I'm assuming your first mortgage is going to have a better interest rate. We're not too concerned about interest rates, but on something like this, I probably wouldn't consolidate at this point. I'd probably keep them separate and start paying off the $130 get that paid off, and then the $270. So you emotionally feel like you have $400,000 of a house to pay off in Baby Step 6, is what that's going to amount to.

So with my savings at $11,000, I had like 20 the other day, but I've listened to you guys as a show. I took nine of it, and I dumped it on our car to pay it off a little bit quicker. But I also, about six months ago, picked up my real estate license. And I have a couple deals right now that If I close on them, I'll be able to wipe my vehicle debt.

Oh my gosh. Amazing. With that.

So would you still deplete that 11?

Yes. Yes. Get it done. Yes.

Get it out. Here's two things I want you to feel, okay? Number one, Project out nine months to where you don't owe anybody anything, okay?

Yeah.

To get there in that time frame, it's going to be miserable. No going out to eat, you all eating whatever you got left in the fridge, somebody going to the grocery store and getting bare minimum at 7: 30 at night after a long day of work. That's what you're signing up for. It's going to be miserable. And you continuing on this path for the next nine months is going to be miserable. So what you're choosing is you're choosing your hard. People like to think, I don't want to do this because that's too hard. I'm just going to keep living my life, which is miserable. And so I'm going to choose my hard that's going to get me to where I want to go. That's number one. Number two, I want that anxiousness of we only have $1,000. All we have is enough money in case one or two of our tires blows out with the cost of tires these days. It is designed to take the edge off, just the sharpest, dull that tip of that pointy knife of fear just a little bit and to fuel you. Because I promise you, if you only have a thousand bucks, you're going to hustle on those two real estate deals because you want that.

The moment you get those things paid off, you're going to start building back your emergency fund, and then you're going to be your own credit card. And that's what three months in an account, if you got 20, 30 grand and you've done two deals and you're able to knock that out with that money, I'm telling you, man, you will sleep. You will laugh different in your house, your marriage will be different. I mean, everything changes. Yeah. And then you'll knock this- I'm not even looking for it. Dude, then knock out 10 real estate deals, plus your income, and you're out of your house in the next 36 months, too. It becomes this- Snowball effect. Powerful small wins.

Kam, do you guys do a detailed budget? Every month, you and your wife sit down and say, Here's exactly where the income is going to go.

We haven't. Not that I've made a mistake because we started making really good money, and I told myself I wouldn't grow into it, and then guess what I did?

Bro, I've been the same thing. All of us are there.

Life's all creep. No, I know. So seriously, Cam, I think it'd be a really great exercise because I know how you feel. Like John said, I can hear it in your voice. You feel out of control. You're like, Oh, my gosh. Our money is going everywhere. I feel like there's no... All of it. But I'm telling you, if you do a plan, If you guys sit down and do a monthly budget, we're going to give you every dollar for free for the next year. Kelly will pick up when we're done with this call. And what this is, it's not only a budgeting app, but it's going to be able to ask you about a 15 minute questionnaire at the beginning when you sign into the app. And what it's going to do is it's going to give you all these recommendations, and it's going to walk you through this whole process of what we've done on the phone, but it's going to extend, which is wonderful. So again, you just need a plan. You guys need to sit down. You need to live on nothing. You need to live on nothing. This is going to be a challenge for you, but it's going to be good for you and your wife to do.

Throw everything you guys have at these cars. Get them paid off. Throw everything at an emergency fund. Get to built up. I'm telling you, Cam, you're going to feel different. You're going to feel different, even just that. So hold on the line, and Kelly's going to pick up. You've worked hard to control your money. You've been budgeting with intention, building a plan, and creating a secure future for your family. But there's one area most people forget to protect: their online data. So I use delete me because you all data brokers collect and post personal information like your home address, phone number, and even your kids' school's info. They do it without your permission. And once it's out there, it can be used by scammers, AI spam tools, and other people that you would never want to have access to your life. So think about it. You wouldn't hand that info to a stranger at the grocery store. So why let it sit there online for anyone to find it? Well, delete me helps you take control control back. Their team of real live privacy experts find your exposed info, removes it from sketchy websites, and make sure that it stays gone.

Then they send you a report so that you know exactly what they've taken care of. So protect your peace and the life that you're working so hard to build. Right now, Ramsey listeners get 20% off at joindeleteme. Com/ramsey with code Ramsey at checkout. Do it today. That's joindeleteme. Com/ramsey and code Ramsey. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. We have some breaking news. We are so excited about this. There is now a co-branded Ramsey and Fairwinds debit card that is now available. On it. It's got dead as normal. Be weird. So all of your purchases that you make- You're putting the number up there.

Is it on the front?

Oh, no, it's on the back. I don't think it's real. This isn't mine.

Yes, it is.

No, it's God, mine's coming. Mine's in the mail. I got the email. Mine's coming, I think, in the next three business days. Can't wait. But the Fairwinds, where's our... Oh, there we are. I was trying to get the camera for YouTube so you can see it. It's beautiful. Great. But Fairwinds is incredible, you guys. It's a credit union that has partnered with Ramsey, and they want what we want for you, which is working the baby steps. You want your financial partner, your bank, to be for you in this process of getting out of debt and saving. And Fairwinds Credit Union does that. So they are absolutely incredible. We are so excited to partner with them. And the new debit card, which will be, yeah, coming your way soon.

Can I tell you what I love about the debit card? Dave and I were talking about this. I love this as a way to literally change the way serving servers and restaurant folks think of Ramsey folks and people are getting out of debt. I want it to be when they see that card, they know they're going to get so generously tipped. Like a good tip, yes. They're going to be like, Oh, these are amazing people. And it's a way to, without making a big fanfare, to be like, Hey, we're weird, and because we've been weird, we can honor you and take care of you in a pretty remarkable way. I would love for that to be the generosity message that servers and hot dog cart people or whoever's taking it, that that's the message that permeates the folks who are running around with this card.

I love it. They want people with this card because they know. I love it. They're good people. That's awesome. Great. Generous people. Yeah. So you can go to fairwins. Org/ramsey to sign up for the smart bundle, and that includes the Ramsey debit card. So we're so excited about that. All right, let's go to Susan in Missouri. She is up next. Hey, Susan. Welcome to the show.

How are you all doing today?

Hi, we're doing great. How are you?

Oh, trudging through life right now.

Okay. What's going on?

A couple of weeks ago, my husband asked me for a divorce.

Oh, gosh, Susan. I'm sorry.

He's pretty serious about it. Of course, I don't We're on it, but that's just how life is. Right now, we don't have any debt. All our cars are paid off. All of our collections are paid off. The only debt we have is our house. Property is worth about $400,000. We have to take a little bit. And we only have $159,000 left on it. We have about $84,000 in savings. And he has a traditional pension, and I have a regular 401(k). He's hard and said that he's not going to touch my 401(k) as long as I don't make a claim against his pension.

Whoa. What?

Yeah.

How much is in your 401(k) How much is that?

About, right now, about 375,000. I put in 19 %, and my company match is 12.

Okay.

Here's why I said, whoa. He walked in, unbeknownst to you and just said, I want a divorce. I'm tired of being married to you, and then started flexing on you. If you don't do this, I won't do that.

Yeah. There had been a couple of signs coming up, and I saw them. And then we had an argument night, and it wasn't anything serious. And he said, I'm done. And he left three weeks ago.

Well, before you start making handshake deals with him, I would sit down with your attorney to make sure this is all right and fair. Because if You've been paying all the bills for 20 or 30 years, and he was able to... And his pension is worth seven million dollars. You know what I mean? It may not be apples to apples. Before you started shaking hands and saying, This is cool. I won't do this, but you do that. Sit down with an That's one thing.

But right now, I'm more concerned about, if you do get to that point, I want to save the house. I want to stay in the house.

Okay. What has he said about that? With you guys, have you talked about that at all?

No, he's not returning any phone calls or speaking at this point, so I can't get to that point of asking.

Yeah, but your goal is wanting to keep the house?

Right. I've done some of the simple math as far as the cash we haven't been saving, selling off. We've got some classic vehicles selling them off. And I've come to the realization that I would probably need about $50,000 to pay them off, to buy the whole property outright and still retain the loan, the $159,000 loan. The question is, I do have that $375,000 in my 401(k), would that be it? I mean, that's the only place I can think to go to get that to pay him off. Because taking out a second mortgage Wouldn't it make sense because the first mortgage plus the second would be well above what I could pay every month for a mortgage payment.

So you're saying you wouldn't be able to afford the home without taking money out of your 401(k)?

Correct. The mortgage right now is about 1650 a month. And I always try to stay at the rule of one-third of your income for your housing.

Yeah, but borrowing from your 401(k) in this situation, because all this is hypothetical right now. He may just sign the house over to you and be gone. But if you had to write him a check for 50 grand, you taking that from your... What I'm going to tell you is not a humongous, it's not bad, but it's not a humongous 401(k), you're going to be taking that out at 30 or 40 % interest. It's like going to a bank and asking for a 40 % loan.

You can do that. Yeah. How old are you, Susan?

46.

Okay. Yeah, no, I would not touch the 401(k), Susan. I would figure out a way within the equity and the payment plan back to him if he's willing to negotiate, and this will be probably your attorney's, I'm assuming, doing a lot of this mediation. Back and forth, yeah. To figure out how you can keep the house and have a plan that's reasonable for your income. But yeah, it would not... I would not feel good to say, take money out of your 401(k) and be hit with that amount of fees and taxes and all of it because it's before 59. 5.

And I will feel good about saying, just don't. Yeah, don't do that. I would rather see you either if he walked out and say, Okay, then I'm keeping the house. And if He says, Absolutely not. I want this and this and this. At the very least, we're going to put this on a payment plan. Cool. Then I'll pay $400 a month for the next however many years. And he probably wouldn't even live that long. But I don't have $50,000 in cash. You just walked out of my life.

Yeah, he absolutely wants to share the house. He's already- Well, he's going to want a whole bunch of stuff, but he just left his wife.

Yeah. Here's the thing. When somebody files for divorce, the day they file for divorce, it becomes a business transaction.

Right. That's it.

Most people want to preserve the relationship. Well, there's this, and I still want to be... It is a business transaction.

Yeah.

That's heartbreaking. You You have to be honest, by the way. You have to be really honest about, I know that this has blown your life to smithereens, but if you can't afford the house payment, plus the taxes, plus the taxes that are going to keep going up in your local area. If you can't afford the house, you can't afford the house. And that's another layer of heartbreak.

The 1650, it's going to go up to 1750 because we just had an increase in our insurance. But that is a doable number for me as far as being able to pay.

Well, that's going to be the hope is that you can figure out a way to be able to pay him what he needs and then figure out how to stay in the house and maybe do a lower payment plan and over and be able to pay him off fast. We want you out of that. I don't want you in that forever. I know.

I'm It's been ridiculous.

Yeah, no. But the idea is, what can you do to be able to stay in? And that's what I would fight for, but I would not borrow from the 401k.

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Up next, we have Monica calling in from Georgia. Hi, Monica. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thanks for having me. Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

I am set to get a large inheritance from a family trust, and I was advised to keep it separate from my husband and keep it in a separate account and not spend it on anything that was not in my name.

Co-mingling it with your husband. Are you guys about to be divorced? No. Okay. Did he cheating on you?

No.

We're halfway married. Are you halfway married?

Who gave you this advice? I'm fascinated to know.

An attorney.

Yeah. Yeah.

And to my friends that are attorneys, the People who come into their offices are dividing up assets, or they're solving these ugly problems. And so I understand that that comes from when all you see is problems, that it's easy to say, Hey, here's a potential problem. I get that.

But no, God, no. Our philosophy is that you guys are one in every aspect. So he gets an inheritance, you get an inheritance. That means your household gets this money, not just you as an individual. Again, unless there is something happening, No. Abuse, addiction, whatever it is, then there is a reason. No, no. There's nothing happening. Then there is a reason. How much are you getting?

Anywhere from one to three million.

Okay. Yeah.

And the only debt that we have Combined is a mortgage on our home, but I'm not on the loan. So it was advised for me not to pay off basically his loan.

Again, from an attorney. Yes. Okay. So there's two schools of thinking, Monica, that happen in the financial space when it comes to marriages. There's one extreme side, which sounds like what the attorney exactly would say, right? That when you get married, you keep your assets. Anything you build from the marriage on is yours. It's all his. Your paycheck is yours. His paycheck is his. His debt is his. Your debt is yours. You basically live like two... You're basically College roommates. Yeah, your roommates are like a business partner, right? That we are separate in this part of our lives. So that's one school of thinking. Another school of thinking where we tend to lean or where I do, I know John does, is that your marriage is bigger than a financial transaction. Your marriage is saying that you and I are one in every aspect of our lives, and we are doing this life together. That's why we chose to get married, to share a life, which means we share parenting, we share household chores, we share our money, we share our expectations about sex, whatever it is with inside the marriage. We share these things because we are doing life together.

And when you do that, what ends up happening is there's a deeper level of unity and connection that's created because you see yourselves as one. You see yourselves as I'm doing this life with you as a partner, and I'm not keeping this one part of my life separate because I don't trust you fully. And I say that with an asterisk, which I said at the beginning of this call. If there is something, a big issue in the marriage that you have to protect yourself, then that's one thing, right? Again, addiction, abuse, whatever that may be. But overall, Monica, we just see a quality of marriage, people that have a very deep quality connection. There is something about that transparency, that vulnerability to say, I'm giving this part of my life to you, and you're giving that part of your life to me, and we're doing this together. So I guess at the end of the day, Monica, you guys get to choose what marriage you want, but we see the benefit It's a benefit from not only a financial aspect, getting ahead quicker. Financially, you get ahead faster when you work together, but also from a relational standpoint.

There's data on marriages about people who share their finances, and they have better outcome comes on a number of different metrics.

Yeah. I mean, we share everything for the most part, and I've never made a payment on our mortgage.

Yeah, I know. But do you all have kids together?

Yes, we have kids, and we are happily married.

How long have you all been married?

A decade, 10 years.

Okay. So the court would say you have participated in this house?

Yeah. No, I understand what you're getting at. My family has a pretty large trust, so this would just be one disbursement. So they were basically advising me with a family attorney to keep it separate or to have him basically sign off on some things that it's not his, even if I pay for things that are ours.

And so what you're choosing to do if you make that call is now I'm uncoupling our unity here, and this is going to be mine, and then we're going to go about having our regular life.

Yeah, and I don't even think he cares either way.

That's the fun thing. I promise you this will become a deal. Yeah. I promise you. Because it- Money flows.

The value at which you live your life is how money flows. So you're setting up a value system within your marriage, Monica.

Here's what it says. It says, there came a dollar a number. There came a dollar amount when I didn't trust you anymore. And here was the number, one to three million dollars. That was the line. And everybody always wonders, how hot would the person have to be or how bad would have-he found out. It's one to three million dollars was when you said, Okay, you can't participate in this. I'm going to create a separate thing. And I know you're getting wisdom from other people, right? But that became the number that the unity in your marriage was worth. Yeah, well, that's not the case. Exactly. So I want to provide an alternative voice in the one you're getting, which is basically Basically, I want basically a prenup now in the middle of my marriage. I want to add an addendum to our marriage contract that says anything I get now over here from this account, whether it's a job, whether it's a trust, whether it's I wrote a book, and it becomes what? That stuff is going to be mine. You can't touch that. And then we'll go back to regularly schedule programming. I'm telling you right now, it'll alter your marriage.

Yeah.

The house that you all have that's in his name, did he own that house before you all got married?

No.

He just bought it that way? Have you all talked about that before?

No, the house is titled in both our names. I'm not on the loan.

I mean, that doesn't matter.

Yeah. No, I could pay off the house.

But it's under his name is what they're saying. Yeah, but the title is under his name. Yeah, but it's your house. Yeah, but you're both on it. Yeah, no.

Yeah, it's your house. And you may want to say, Hey, we just got $3 million. Whoo-hoo. We get to make this up. Let's go have a retreat and dream.

That's what's so hard, Monica, I think, is where I'm having a little bit of difficulty, is instead of seeing this gift that you've got from your parents who did incredibly well, and they're passing on their legacy, that you're not looking at your husband, and you guys aren't celebrating inside. Like, Holy crap. We got $3 million. We are celebrating and we- No, you're not. No, you're supposed to do a prenup. I mean, you're not, though. You're not saying, Gosh, we get to be out of debt. We get to do all this together. This is our life. Our kids. We get to... This is our Our kids... I mean, we get to create all this. It's not that. It's, Hey, Monica, make sure you sign this paper that he can't freaking touch it.

He can't touch it. This is mine.

And anything I buy with this, Monica, you just said he can't participate in. Does that not sound really sad to you in a marriage?

It sounds very cold, but that doesn't really shock me.

It doesn't shock you that that's the advice you're getting?

No, it's just I think that a worst-case scenario scenario planning is the background I come from, where my husband's side of the family is very much together and one-minded.

What do you want, Monica? What marriage do you want?

No, I want the one-minded, one-track. I just figured I'd talk to somebody who doesn't have any skin in the game.

Totally.

You're talking to two people. This is what we would do in our house.

And let me tell you, Dave and Sharon Ramsey, we have a state meeting plans every single year. And not once have my parents, nor have I, had any feeling towards any of the spouses, that this over here. The only time I see it that I can actually very much understand, it's not in our case, but some family businesses are voting stock, and that the voting stock stays with the family member, the blood family, if there is a separation. That I understand, because you don't want to co-mingle next. Like a family business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Within something like that. That makes sense. And I think there's some complicated estate planning out there. But, man, I don't know why that, Bob, that really hurts me where I'm like, it's not that we're winning, it's that I'm winning over here, and you don't get to win. It put a number on our unity. Yeah. And so your family may not like it, Monica, but you and your husband get to choose what marriage you want. And if they don't agree with that, that's up to them. That's their issue, not yours. But going forward, I would implore you to...

You guys work together in this, and you'd see yourselves as one because that creates a beautiful marriage in life.

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Today's question comes from Bethany in Connecticut. Bethany writes, I'm 46 years old with no kids and no debt. I'm an aggressive saver in CDs and money market funds. I have $250,000 saved for retirement in a three to six month emergency fund. I only spend money on the necessities and get by as cheaply as possible. Everyone says I'm doing a good job of saving money, but mental health-wise, I have a hard time getting into the market due to anxiety and OCD. How does someone manage mental health while also managing their market? Are there helpful strategies such as only looking at one's portfolio once a quarter or once a year? Is there a way I can do it myself? I don't want to be completely hands-on, but I don't want to give up all control either.

It's a great question. I think a lot of people have some fear around putting money in the market. And usually that fear comes from not knowing enough. Because I guarantee you, Bethany, I think you're smart I think if you sat down with a financial planner and actually looked at some of the investments that you could do, whether it's mutual funds or index funds, and you're able to see the pattern of the market, you're able to see a long-term track record with some of these funds, I think it will give you more peace to know, Okay, my money could be making a lot more, double what it's making now in CDs. But there is a level of risk to it, sure. But also, you're 46 years old, and you We aren't going to touch any of this until the next 15 years.

That was the big switch for me, which was my smart investor pro. I'm fortunate. I will say that. I'm very lucky. That was also a college roommate of mine. And so when we were going back and forth with this years ago, he finally said, Hey, if you're thinking you're going to take this money out at some point in the next few years, or if it starts going down, you're going to pull all this out and pay the penalties, I'm not your guy. And that for me was, Oh, if I invest money in retirement, This thing's on a 40 or 50 year ride. Me checking this every month, me honestly checking it every year, is a choice to be falsely optimistic or falsely pessimistic, because I'm 49 years away, 25 years away. So for me, I'm an anxious person, and I'm also an anxious investor. I like the idea of investing in real estate so I can go see it, right? I can go touch it. I like the idea of having extra cash in the bank, right? But when it comes to investing, I had to make the decision, this is going to be a ride I'm going to get on until I retire.

Yes. And when I made that decision, I honestly don't look at it very much at the details. What's the market? Because it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter to me right now because I'm playing a 20 or 30-year game. And so my smart investor pro, to be honest with you, we work together on goals, we check in, but he'll text me and say, Hey, you're about to get an email from our company. Don't open it. Because he's known me forever. He's like, You're going to freak out. You're going to act stupid or whatever. Or, Hey, the market's up 21 %. Just remember, it's- It's an equalizer. He's a psychologist more than he's a money guy for me, right? Yes, 100 %. And so, Bethany, that's how I handle it. I know the people who check it up and down every day. I just know when I made that choice, I'm on a ride that's going to be however many years, a multi-decade ride. I'm not going to lose a ton of sleep over it in the short term.

A hundred %, yeah. And we look at ours just once a year and reevaluate where is everything, how we feeling. But that's it. I don't... I mean, unless it's for work and I'm trying to figure out if the rates went down or I don't know, you can just keep a pulse on it. But I don't do it from an emotional sense of my own money either, because it's the long game.

And, Rachel, I don't think this is an It's an entire Ramsey sentiment. I think when you pay your house off, when you're on the other side of Baby Step 6, my wife and I, I was like, Hey, I feel more comfortable with more than six months of cash. She's like, Okay. But We are consciously choosing together to make less on that spread. It could be making this in the market. It's only making this in a high-yield savings account.

It feels good to have some cash available.

That's some margin that I've bought myself that I pay 2 or 3% a year, a tax on, and I call it my sleep tax. But I think if you get there, if you decide, Hey, I'm putting money. I'm putting 15 % away for retirement. I'm doing those things. I want a little bit more money. I don't owe anybody anything.

I'm fine with that. Totally. I'm fine with that. Yeah, absolutely. That's good. All right, let's go to Sarah, who's in Texas. Hey, Sarah. Welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for taking my call. Yes, absolutely. So I have a quick question. Me and my fiance, we're in a bind. So we both have car payments, and we're both upside down. So combined, our car payments are about $1,800 a month.

Yeah, I know.

It's stupid. I know.

Are you driving Lamborghini? What do you drive? I'm curious.

No, just basic GMC Acadia and an And the F-150. And the F-150 is a 2015, and the Acadia is a 2021. Terrible interest rates.

Did you get these at a subprime? I mean, did you buy them off a lot? It's like a handshake deal off a lot somewhere, behind the lot?

No. Car dealership. It was just the credit was so bad. So he had his truck before I got my car. My other car that was paid off, I loved it. It was just down in the dirt, and the engine was smoking when I pulled into the dealership.

Okay, Sarah, I want you to separate these out. Tell me How much is it worth? My car is...

I owe 32 on it still. My payment is 1,100 because we got behind, so we had to do this promise to pay thing. It was 815, but now it's bumped up to 1100.

Okay.

It's 2015 F150. He still owes 20,000 on it, and his payment is right at 700.

How much do you make a year?

So No, don't combine.

We make- No, don't combine it. Don't combine it. You.

Me and myself, right around 55.

Okay. How about him?

He's about 52, 53.

Okay. What could you sell your car for today? What does Kelly Blue Book say?

I think it's 17.

Have you looked? I have. Okay. And an individual, not dealer.

So not as an individual. I haven't.

Okay. So I would do that. So I I would give it a couple of thousand more because you can usually get more from an individual. A dealer is going to buy it as close to wholesale as possible. So what was the first? What was the number you said for the dealership? 17. Okay, let's just bump it up to 20 just for fun, okay? How much could What do they sell his for?

I think his is valued at eight.

From a dealer's- From an F150, did he wreck it?

No, he did not wreck it.

It's just like it's old. F150s are made of gold these days.

So both of our cars have about 100,000 miles.

His is about 100. Still, though- No, that's not. I almost guarantee you a 2015 F150.

Yeah, 12 to 15,000. Or you think even more?

They're expensive, yeah. I like trucks, and they're so... It's like cartoon money.

It's not 8,000?

No. No, dude.

I thought that's what it said. So it's also a two-wheel drive.

I mean, there's going to be a bunch of nuances here and there, nick Naxon. We don't have to go back and forth. If it's an extended cab or all that stuff, I could almost guarantee you, I I could be wrong, that it's worth more than eight grand. Unless it's been wrecked, it was underwater.

I will look into that.

Yes, yes. And private party, too. Yeah.

Okay.

Even if there was somebody that owns a lawn crew that will roll up and give you 10 grand cash for it. I haven't seen a truck worth $8,000 in a long, long, long time.

Okay. So, yeah, we'll be a little bit more. And you're in Texas. They like it. They like their truck.

They give you a truck with your birth certificate.

I haven't dug too much into his.

Okay. Okay, so Sarah, golly. Okay. So, man. Okay. And I'm going to separate the two because you guys aren't married yet. Once you're married, we combine it all together and I'm right off into the wins. But for you, specifically, yes, getting rid of this car is huge because it's more than half of your annual take home pay, you know what I mean? Half of what you make. And so we have way, way too much car, which I know that's why you're calling because you're feeling it.

Yeah, that's where we both are. So all of our finances are combined. We have four kids together.

Okay.

Dude, just hang on the line. We're going to hold you over because I want to unpack this one.

Yeah, and we'll walk through some of this math with you, Sarah.

We're going to go to a break, but we'll be right back.

All right, welcome back. We have Sarah on the line from the last segment. She was calling in because their car payments and car loans, they are feeling it. So she owes 32,000 on hers with $1,100 going out every month in a payment, and her husband owes 20,000. I'm sorry, her fiancé owes 20,000 on his. He makes 52, she makes 55. And just trying to figure out the math here to get them out of these payments. Does that sound right, Sarah, so far?

Yes. Okay.

And are both of your credits shot? Because you mentioned that. Yeah.

They are. Yeah. So we have completely stopped paying on the credit cards because even the minimums was like, Okay, well, we're not going to They are rent. So we rent right now for 2,000. Then daycare, 700. It's everywhere.

Okay. Your rent is 2,000. How much you guys... I mean, you're running your household as if you're married. So I'm going to ask this. How much hits- They pretty much do, yeah. How much hits your checking account every month? After taxes, after insurance, everything.

I would say right about 8,000.

8,000. For both of you?

Yes.

Okay. Okay. Well, that's... Yeah. Then the $2,000 rent. That's in line with it for being about a fourth of your take home pay because that's what we're wanting shooting for. So that's not completely out of control. But then again, you add on these car payments and everything else on top of it. It's a lot. So I How hard they're on enough. Have you guys gone down to maybe a local credit union or a local bank and talk through a loan process? Because the ideal situation, again, your credit's shot, so it may not work.

They will not refinance.

No, no, not a refinance. Just get a personal loan, and I would get a $25,000 loan for you. Pay off the difference. Pay off the difference of $20, go get a $5,000 crappy car for just the time being. And your husband, do the same if he's able to. Because Honestly, what John was saying about trucks, I'm praying he can get more, but he may only need a $6,000 loan to get it paid off, to get the difference if he can sell it.

It's not a refi. It's just we're paying this thing off. We're done with it.

Yeah. But I would rather have a $20,000 than a $32,000. Right? So we're just moving it, but lowering it at the same time, which means you're getting rid of these cars and driving crappy cars. You don't have anything in savings?

No, nothing. So we just started you all's financial piece last week to our church.

Oh, good.

Okay. All the steps are hitting us and we're like, oh, well.

The thing I think you have to metabolize here is, you've got these car payments. You all have done things That's what I'm saying. You're not going to be able to do things that aren't wise with money we all have. You all have to metabolize. To truly get out of this mess, it's going to be 36 months of not a lot of fun. Yeah. And if you're willing to do that, you can get out of this. And that might mean you're taking a He's taking a second job. He's taking a second job. And you're like, I don't have time to that. I would tell you, you don't have time not to because I can hear you drowning. And you're going to find yourself, this car is going to fail you before you pay it off. And you have to roll that- It has been in the shop already. You have to roll the negative equity. We're going to end up on $50,000 on a '79 used, like whatever, Volvo, right? So it's like at some point, you and him have to say, We're drawing a line here. We're not going to go out to eat. We're going to take second jobs.

We're going to maybe move apartments. It's $1,500 instead of $2,000. We're going to do that for three years or two years so we get out of this once and for all. And if you don't have that level of burn it to the ground and grow something beautiful out of the ashes, if you don't have that, you're just going to keep playing the shell game.

Yeah, that's right. There be an extreme change. I mean, it's almost a 180 at the way you guys have been thinking about money, doing money. I mean, all of it. It's got to be a complete different shift. And you guys are in Financial Beach University, which I'm so thankful for. But we're also, if you're holding the line, Kelly is going to pick up, and we're going to give you our all new every dollar. And we're excited about this because within the app, you're not only able to budget and create a monthly budget, which will be so great for you, Sara, and to sit down for you guys to look and be like, Hey, we are Literally, this is our plan for what we're spending on groceries, lights, rent, gas for the car, and that's it. Take care and insurance. We're paying for nothing else. We're not Amazoning, we're not going to Target, we're not going on vacation, we're not going to- We're not decorate anything.

Oh, that looks nice. It doesn't matter.

We're not doing anything, but We're literally putting every single penny we can find towards this debt. And when you start to have that motivation, it's incredible. And to have an app like EveryDollars that not only can you do the budget, but also it's going to look over your entire financial plan, because with EveryDollars, we're adding in so many coaching elements, and it's going to look over your entire financial picture. And people are finding thousands of dollars of margin in just 15 minutes. So for all of you listening, we have a premiere coming about the All New Every Dollar on September 25th, where you get to see real success stories and how you could be the next one and how you can plug into this and start your money journey. So if you want to turn on your YouTube notifications to get notified when the premiere drops, make sure to do that. And again, that is going to be September 25th is where the all-new Every Dollar premiere is here for you guys, and we're really, really excited about it. So, Sarah, again, Kelly is going to pick up, and we will hook you up for a year's worth of that Every Dollar subscription to get you guys in and moving.

So we are cheering you all on. All right, next we have Crystal in Oregon. Hi, Crystal. Welcome to the show.

Hi.

Thank you for having me. I'm honored. Absolutely. How can we help?

I am a single mother of one, and I own a home. I have an LLC in Cleaning Houses, and then I coach high school basketball on the side, but I have a credit card that's just eating me alive.

Okay. Wow. Good for you, Crystal. Good for you. That's awesome. Way to take on the world.

I was a basketball coach for a few years. It's one of my favorite jobs I've ever had. It's way more fun than being a YouTuber. It was awesome.

Yeah, it's very rewarding. Okay, so tell me about this credit card. What's going on?

I think I had a few years that were really difficult. So I feel like a lot of it is food food to feed my daughter and I and things like that. Sure. I'd say I haven't used it in about a year, but it doesn't go down.

Okay. How much do you owe on it?

I owe about a little over 9,000.

9,000? Okay. How much do you make a year? I make about 58. 58? Okay, good for you. That's great. And what's the payment each month?

The payment right now is like 330.

Okay, perfect.

But then the interest on it is like, I think it's like So it's like I'm only paying off $100 of it here and there.

Yeah. Extra. Okay. After you pay all of your bills, Crystal, like from your... You said you have a house, so your mortgage, lights, everything. Do you have any margin leftover?

I have, after all the bills with my house and everything, I have $1,000 left for food and gas.

For food and gas. Okay. Perfect. It's that. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, A couple of things, Crystal. I mean, you can... You know that $1,000? I mean, there's... I mean, food's expensive, it's hard, but I'm just thinking through, if you can find $1,000 a month, you can get this paid off in nine months, right? Meaning, I don't know if there's extra work you pick up a little bit on the side, cutting expenses where you're like, Listen, we're having peanut butter and jelly and spaghetti every day. That's what we're doing for the next five months. We're cutting the grocery budget. We're cutting where we can. We're adding extra. Because honestly, sitting on this side of the phone call, I was expecting... I was holding my breath when you said, I was thinking 22 to 30,000 on the credit card. That's what I was thinking. So when you said nine, I was like, Okay, Crystal can do this. Crystal can do this.

You really can't. Here's the thing. Here's what I hate about this. It may be that you have to go and say, I can't do my side hustle of coaching this year because it only pays 2,500 bucks for the season. I got to go get Job X because I got to make 6,000 bucks away.

Yeah, the basketball... My daughter goes to a private Christian school, so I took on the basketball gig to help pay for my portion of sending her to that school.

Okay, there you go. But here's the thing. Every decision you make is going to be a trade-off. And do I want to keep this thing around for two years and pay $400 a month on it? Or do I want to just grit my teeth, make some really deep cuts, and be done with this thing in seven months, and then get on with my life? Yeah.

I think my biggest question was, is that I do have a PRRS account from a previous job that's at about 7,300 right now. Is that something I should consider cashing in to help pay this off?

A What account?

A PRRS?

Okay, I don't know if you're familiar with that. I don't know what that is.

That's probably something George would know. I don't know what that is.

As long as there's not fees attached to it or you get penalized or something. I don't know, something weird. But yeah, if you're able to get that. But hey, stay on the line, Crystal. Kelly's going to pick up. We're going to give you Aldi gift card. Aldi is an incredible place to shop for your groceries because it's so inexpensive. It's amazing. And the quality is great. And they gave us some gift cards. Crystal, stay on the line. We're going to give you an Aldi gift card to help, at least for this month.

Get you launched out of here.

Absolutely.

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Go download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Richel Cruz with Dr. John Deloney, and we're going to go to Gail in Pennsylvania. Hi, Gail. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks so much for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help today?

My husband and I, we are 55, and we are about to be selling our home, and we are purchasing a home together with my parents. We all be living together in the home, and we have a great relationship and want to enjoy some years together. Then as they need help as time goes by, we'll already be there, and that is simple for all of us. My dad is a disabled veteran, and with that has an exemption from property taxes, which is about $10,000 a year. If my husband and I are on the deed for the house, then we do not have that exemption, and we would pay those taxes, or we can not be on the deed and save that tax amount each year. I know I've heard Dave talk many times about, If you're not on the deed, it doesn't count. I get that, but I was wondering if you would have anything other to say in this case.

The way you're setting it up, I would probably If this were to be overly formal, I would probably get a lease, a renter's lease and say I'm renting a room from the owner of this home. Okay. And if your father decides decides that I'm going to deed this house over to you all, that might be the cleanest way to do that. And if you've got a sibling, just prepare for that to be a nightmare when you all untangle all that.

Well, I'm an only child, so that person- Okay, so you wouldn't even have to worry about that.

That would probably be the way I would do that.

So what does a rental lease do for us?

It allows you to... I mean, you could just move into his house, right?

That's essentially what it's going to be, Gail, from a legal standpoint. You're going to be attending in his house. Yeah. So basically, your parents are buying a house and you and your husband are just moving in with them, is what that is. And then if you end up paying part of the mortgage, you are paying into an asset that you don't own legally. And so what John's saying is some type of... I'm assuming you guys are going to help with the mortgage, right? Or are they just going to buy a house and you guys are just living there, and then you get to live there for free because you're taking care of them?

Is Well, so there won't be a mortgage for it. When we sell our home, we'll contribute 150,000 toward it, but there's no mortgage, there's no ongoing payment other than utilities and upkeep and all that.

But $150,000 of your money, though, is going to be in this asset that doesn't have your name on it.

And so I don't know the tax implications, but legally, you're giving your parents $150,000 $1,000 gift for them to purchase a home. Okay. Because you all are going to feel like it's all working together. But if you want to do this, you don't have to pay property taxes, and you're all going to buy one house together, then legally, yeah, you're giving them $150,000 gift. They're going to buy a home, and they're going to let you live in there rent-free, or they're going to charge you rent for it. And here's what I would say. The reason I would recommend a lease is two reasons. One, can I just give you some worst-case scenarios? Just because this is what we deal with. Mom passes away and dad has dementia. And he says, Get out of my house. I don't want you all here. I'm trying to think of worst case scenarios. He rear-ends somebody, and they sue him, and they want to take this. I want there to be a- There's no protection for you all. There's no protection at all when you just give $150,000 this way. I would prefer you to have $150,000 in a high-yield savings account, and you'll pay rent towards this thing every month.

But I do get the idea that you all don't want a mortgage, but it's illegally, you all are giving them a gift. And I don't know what their tax implications, if they're going to have to pay taxes on that gift.

I don't know how that's going to work. And I would meet with probably an estate attorney, Gail, just to get a wording within a will that when they pass or if when one of them passes, what that looks like. It's just a domino effect that we see.

We've already done that part with the estate attorney and have those pieces.

That's great. So that's with the death aspect. But then, I mean, as John's saying, things can happen when they're alive. That could affect the house. That something happens to them, a situation, legally, medically. I don't know what it is, and they need to sell this house.

Dad passes away, mom suddenly gets remarried four months later. And the only reason we say those things is because those are the calls we got. And I know it's easy to be like, That will never happen. And it usually doesn't happen. That's just the calls we get all the time.

Sure. We have addressed a lot of those with the estate attorney. Okay.

So at the end of the day, if your name's on the deed- You're making me think of a scenarios. If your name's on the deed, it's not your house. And so I would feel comfortable living with my parents under this arrangement. But I want to sign a lease agreement that says, I'm renting this room for $100 or this part of the house or whatever for $100 a month or $100 a year. I don't care what the number is. And also, I don't ever want somebody to come back and say, Hey, we think you all are committing tax fraud, or you're taking advantage of X, Y, or Z, right?

A system, yeah. Yeah. And again, from a legal standpoint, your parents would be able to do whatever they want with this house because their name is on it, that you have no ownership in this. And so if that's the... And I don't know why this This may be wrong. I don't know. There's a little bit of more peace because you all are older. I don't know why. It just feels like there's probably less complications.

Then it feels a 25-year-old couple moving into their 50-year-old parents house.

100 %, yeah. So for some reason, the age gives me a little bit more peace of the stage of life you guys are in, because we do get calls with young couples that want to entangle themselves with parents and all of them. I'm like, You have a whole life ahead of you that's about to get really messy really fast.

And let me say one more thing, and this is not directed at you, Gail. This is just in general. The more you try to game a system and go around things and undercut things to avoid paying this, or I want to not I'm going to do that. So I'm going to do this. At the end of the day, I'm going to ask myself, what's my integrity worth? And if I know this is actually my house, but I want to take advantage of your thing- So I'm going to put someone else's name on it. I'm going to put someone else's name on it, but it's actually mine. I'm going to I say my integrity is not worth $10,000. It's not worth a thousand bucks a month. Do I want to write that check in property taxes every year? God, no. But my integrity is not for sale. And so that's just something to think through. I don't think that's you in this situation, Gail. But if I know, actually, this is my house, but I want to take advantage You have a government benefit because of your military service. So you put your name on it, we're going to do all this rigmarole.

Part of me feels gross about it.

Yeah, that's fair. You have people hiding information in order to get a better deal.

That part of that feels gross to me. I think there's a VA benefit that's amazing and wonderful, and it's a taxpayer. I'm glad we have that. Yeah.

And I wouldn't do this arrangement right now, Gail, because of that, specifically, right? That maybe when they do need your help in 10 years, maybe you guys make some arrangement then. But Yeah, that's a great point, John.

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Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

So I have a complex situation with my mother. I'm an only child, and she has struggled financially most of my adult life. She's now almost 70, and she doesn't have any retirement. She's currently unemployed. She hasn't yet started taking Social Security because she's waiting for the full amount at 70, which is in February. And she's been inconsistently employed for years and years. So I don't think Social Security is going to be a lot anyway. And so now I'm facing two issues. One is short term. She's come to me for the first time saying she's totally out of money and is trying to figure out how to pay her bills this month. And then long term, how to set boundaries for the fact that she's just not going to have much income for the next 20 some odd years of her life. I don't know how to support her while having healthy boundaries, I guess. She also has some mental health issues involved with OCD and hoarding and stuff, so there's lots of complexity to this.

And Abby, you're an only child, you said?

Yeah.

Okay. Oh, man. Did Does she live near you from a distance? Yeah, about an hour away. About an hour away. Okay. And how are you financially? Where are you at?

I'm stable. My husband and I just moved to a simpler home and downsized a bit so we could pay off debt. And I've got a little bit of debt left I'm trying to pay off, but I make a pretty good income. And now that we have lower monthly expenses for everything else, I should have that paid off in about a year and a half to two years.

Okay, so how much do you guys make a year?

Combined, we're about 150.

150, okay. And what's the debt left on?

I have a truck and a camper trailer that I do travel nursing.

Okay. And so that'll be paid off in the next year, and then you guys will be debt-free?

Correct. And then just the house was left. In Oregon, it's really... Houses in Oregon are pretty expensive. We only owe about 94,000 on this new house.

Oh, good. Okay. Well, that's really encouraging. Okay.

So, Abby, We'll get how that came up. I appreciate you having the courage to call. There are millions and millions and millions of adult kids who are facing this same dilemma.

Yeah.

And before you get into the solution part of this conversation, how do I get healthy boundaries? What do I do about this call? I think you and your husband need to sit down and be honest about how are we going to care or not care for my aging mother.

Yeah.

That's a harsh way to say that.

We had many conversations this last month.

Okay. But I think it's because if you know deep down, I'm not going to let my mom go under a bridge, into a shelter.

Right. Right.

And I'm going to move her into this back bedroom here. Then that frames what boundaries look like. What if, Hey, Mom, we're going to give you this much money, but you're going to live... Now you're going to live in by my rules, right? Like the reverse of how you grew up. Then you can have a different conversation. If your boundaries are, you made your choices, Mom. I don't care about you, whatever. I wouldn't wish that, but it's your life, right? I want you to be honest about your stance on where's your lines going to be. Otherwise, you end up choosing resentment over guilt. She doesn't deserve that. You all don't deserve that. It's just a way to set your house on fire from the inside out. Coming up with this is the boundary is going to be, then you can begin to say, okay, mom, I'm going to pay this bill, or, You know what? You're letting your lease go. You're going to move in with this now, or I'll give you this much money, or I'll pay the bill directly. We're going to pay $200 a month. We're just going to make this a regular thing.

You'll get to start having the more practical conversations after that.

Yeah, if that makes sense. I think I'm trying to find a middle ground, which is always easier said than done.

I don't know if there is one here. Do you think there is one?

So she owns her home, just recently paid it off. That's good. But she doesn't have the money for property taxes that's coming up. How much is that? Which is going to be around 4,000-ish somewhere in there. She just switched her home owner's insurance to monthly, so she could pay that slower, which was good. But her house is practically condemnable. She hasn't had flowing water for years. You can't move around in the space. It's not a safe space. But I've tried over and over again to get her to leave, and she won't. She has this grandiose idea in her mind of what she wants her home to look like someday. Unfortunately, that's her The only asset. Even as it is, she could still get... In Oregon, she could get $250,000 for that house. And so that could be a source of income if you invested it. But I can't convince her to do that. And there's even really great... We don't have Section 8 here. We have a voucher program where people get a voucher and then can live wherever they want to rent. But she doesn't want to rent. She wants to own. But $250,000 won't buy you another house here very It's very well.

But you have to exhale and know my mom's not well. Yeah. And so I'm trying to address a situation, an irrational situation. I don't mean that like an erratic bananas, right? But like somebody who who's not critically thinking well, who's cognitive processing is well, trying to solve that problem with data and facts, isn't the solution.

Yeah, that's what I'm running into.

The solution is often- I don't know what to do next. I care about you. And if you want this money, here's what that's going to look like.

Okay.

Because she's going to get a mathematical reality forced on her one way or the other. They're going to come take her house because she's going to get behind on property taxes, or her neighbors are going to call for all the stuff in the in the yard, and they're going to take her home, or she's going to get your support and begin to make some changes. And I'm afraid it's going to happen.

I was going to say, but if Abby... Because, yeah, I'm with you, Abby. I'm like, Oh, my gosh. Because I'm asking you, John. If you can't reason with her, logically, like you're saying, is there just a natural unfolding of real consequences of the real world? You don't pay your property tax, mom. So they're going to take it. Do you know what I'm saying?

That's why I started a call with Abby. You and your husband have to decide not if, but when it comes to it, are we going to let her move in the back bedroom? Because that's going to be our option.

Right. If she loses everything.

Right. And you could sit down and maybe she'll hear I doubt it. H hoarding, especially in elderly populations, that means she's in a really tough spot, right? She's been struggling for a while. A long time. And so sitting down and having a heart-to-heart isn't going to get us there.

Right.

If she could get on some medication, if she would get some support and all that. But I'm confident you all have been down that road for years, and there's to no avail, right?

Yeah. I'm still trying, but yeah. Yeah.

Would she respond to the words, Mom, they're going to come take your house?

Yeah, I've tried that. Okay. I've tried that, but they're going to condemn your house, and they're going to take it away because just the fact that she hasn't had water running for a couple of years is a huge red flag for the city. Absolutely. They could easily come condemn it tomorrow, and then she'd lose everything. I've been trying to tell her that, but it's not getting through. I feel like it's hard for me to make any true progress forward with her because she won't do any of the things that make sense. I'm stuck trying to do it her way, but then do I just put money into a sinking ship that isn't like... If I just pay her bills for her- Because it's not even good for her to stay there.

It's unhealthy and unsafe for her.

You know what I mean? So there's a part of you that's like, it's like a blessing in the sky guys, if something happens to the home, and then Abby and her husband could be there at that point.

Assuming that she would even move in with you guys, right? We take the voucher program and go somewhere else. But yeah, I'm going to suggest to as best you can. This is hard Because it's your mom, right? Nobody wants it. But traffic in reality. What is true and what is real, not what is what we want to happen. Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over a Valentine's Day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend, Rachel Cruz, will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication, and more. This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th, and early bird price to start at $749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets today at ramsey solutions. Com/events.

Thank you so much for listening and watching the show. We so appreciate it. One of the best ways to spread the word is to share the show with your friends, with your family, on your social media platforms, all the things, because as we get the word out about the show, more and more people hear about it, listen to it, and hopefully get control of their money, which we love. But we always appreciate you liking, subscribing, reviewing, sharing the show, all of it. We appreciate you guys. All right, next up, we have Jesse in Wisconsin. Hi, Jesse. Welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

Yes, absolutely. How can we help? Okay.

So recently, within the last couple of months, I had... My grandfather had my grandfather passed away. I'm sorry. It just means... Thank you. It's just me and my dad as an extra kid. He had gifted us with And his assets with money cash-wise is 850, I think. And then he also owns 80 acres of land up in Wisconsin. My question is, is all the assets and all the money is going to be put into my name?

Not your dad's?

Not my dad. Because my dad has lived a rough life, if you could say. Okay. So without money coming back and getting taken for taxes, beck, whatever, it's all going to go into my name. But my question is, is it best for me? Because my dad's going to live off this money for the rest of his life. It's just the way that it's going to be. Is it best for me to put- Bro, can I just stop real quick?

That's going to put you in a really awful position. Yes. This is one of those ideas that looks good on paper, and man, you are now basically your dad's dad.

It's been like that pretty much forever. But I understand what you're saying.

I hate you're in that position, man. And I hate that for you, brother.

Yeah. I guess what you're saying is my thing was to put it in my name, and then do I reinvest his whole half because we can make more money off of it that way? Or do I take so much out, because I'm going to pay a penalty on it, pay a penalty on it and put it into CDs or some quick money? Do you understand?

Not really. What do you mean you're going to get a penalty on it?

Well, so there is a Roth in money that counts. I guess I don't know, do I reinvest all of it, or do I take some out and get rid of the problem like what you just said? You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. I mean, I would keep it within, if you can, shelter it tax-wise with the Roth, all of that. That would be ideal. The 850,000, what is it divided up in? What is it all sitting in right now?

Well, he has a financial guy here locally where I'm from, and I think half of it, most of it was in a Roth, and then he has it into some more aggressive stuff, too. I'm actually going to meet up with him tomorrow to finalize all the paperwork. But that was my question. Do I keep reinvesting it and just throw it all back in there, or is it better for me to take some out?

Well, some of it you can use for your life to get you ahead financially, things like a home if you have debt. So where are you, Jesse, financially?

I own I own two houses. I don't really have any debt. I've paid everything off. I don't have any debt.

Even on the homes? No mortgages?

I have one mortgage on my house down in another town, and I own my other house up in another town locally.

Okay, where are you living? Are you in one of those houses? Are you living in one of those houses?

Yes, I'm living in one. And then the other one I bought, I'm refixing up. My grandmother passed away about three years ago, and she left me her house. So I'm living in that house right now with no... I mean, I just pay taxes.

Okay, okay. So how much do you have left on the other mortgage?

Like 83,000.

Okay. And the home that you're fixing up, are you planning on selling that, or- Yes. You are? Yes. Okay, how much would it go for?

About 150.

Okay. That's great. Where does your dad live?

Wherever. Sometimes, he's looking for a different girlfriend right now.

So what financial expectations is this money going to have to supply for him?

I'm trying to make it. I'm trying to be the smarter one. I'm trying to make it the most of it. You know what I'm saying?

I know, but here's the problem. You're using big. I'm going to make the most. I want to do the best. I want to try to get the growth. You have an actual true math problem in front of you. And the more specific you can be about that math problem- Which is your dad. Which is your dad, the better off you can plan for this thing. Here's what I mean. If you decide in your head, I'm going to put 425 for my dad, and I'm going to keep 425. That's what me and granddad took hands on. And your dad goes into acute liver failure, and it's going to cost you $3 million to get a liver transplant or whatever, you're going to have a hard choice to make, right? Or if he blows through it all in two years. And he has nowhere to go, are you going to let him live on the street, or is he going to move into your back bedroom? It's you having that root level conversation and then saying, What's the dollar amount? Right?

Yeah. Okay. I guess, yeah, but that 425, let's say, is it worth keeping it in there if he's 60, 61 years old?

Does he need your money? Is he asking you for it?

Well, he's going to need it.

Is he working right now, Jesse? Does he work?

No. He doesn't?

No. How's he paying bills right now?

I think he does like, well, like side jobs or something like that. Okay. But no, there's no full-time- I mean, honestly, okay.

So there was a handshake with your grandad that said this money is going to go in your name, Jessie, because you're responsible. But this part of this money, or half of this money, is supposed to go to your dad to make sure that he doesn't live on the streets, right? This is his.

It was 50/50 on the will, but me and my old man had made this agreement, where we were just going to put her in the mind.

Okay, then if it's in the will, bro, then keep it separate. Keep it separate.

I know. There's a part of me, Jessie. I don't like the idea of you feeling You having to be the caretaker of your dad. There's a part of me. Tell me, John, I don't know if this is right, but my knee jerk is to say, Jessie, Split it down the middle. Your dad takes his portion. He gets to decide what to do with it. But you're not the bank anymore. Once the money's gone, dad, it's gone. So you can either choose to invest it, live on it wisely for the rest of your life, or if you squander it away, you can't come to me for money. This is it. I would just keep it short simple and clean instead of you holding all of it and trying to pay your dad dividends, and when he needs it, he comes to you, and you're like the bank. That feels off to me. I would almost go 50/50 and let your dad deal with it.

It's one or the other. It's 50/50, or you understand I'm going to be his full-time caretaker. You're trying to do both.

I guess you said, to figure out that conversation first and then invest just by half. Because if you invest the majority of it, it should be okay. But I need to have that conversation first to make sure I don't want to be involved.

Absolutely. A hundred %.

Yeah, a hundred %. And you can even say, Hey, dad, I'm going to meet with a financial planner. Why don't you come to the meeting, too, and see what they have to say? And you take your half. You get to make a decision on what you want to do. I'm going to make a decision with mine. And maybe it's the same decision. Maybe you both decide we're going to invest it, but I would keep it still separate in the investments, because if he starts messing with it, you know what I mean? Pulling out.

I don't like the idea of a 61-year-old man coming to his 40-year-old son saying, Hey, I want to buy a car.

Yeah, that's the thing, too. If I'm going to take that money out, I'll just take out some money at the giggle, get a car, house, and stuff, and then reinvest whatever else.

But you don't need to do that, Jesse. He needs to do that with his half.

I got a lot of stories about that.

I know. Here's the deal. You don't want to be his caretaker, but you are living in the reality that you have to be his caretaker. Taker.

Right on.

Okay. And so you have to decide, I'm either going to go all in on this role, or I'm going to sit down and have a hard conversation with my dad and say, Dad, there's $425,000 in an account. I'm not managing it for you. And When it's gone, it's gone. Don't come to me for it.

Right on. And I'm going to talk to that financial guy, too. And like I said, have him be there. Otherwise, it's going to be just a mess.

It already is a mess. You've been put in an incredibly awkward situation And I hate this for you, but also I want to applaud you, brother, for trying to be a good man to your dad.

Yeah, for sure. It's awesome. Yeah, for sure. So, Jessie, if I were in your shoes and I had half of this money, I would pay off whatever debt I have, including the mortgages. I would take Some cash out if you don't have cash, just as an emergency fund and stick it in a high yield savings account. And then, yes, I would leave the rest of investments. And that could be index funds, mutual funds. Don't do anything crazy, Jessie. Don't do crypto. Don't go and do some skiing thing over Keep it simple. Mutual funds, index funds. Let it grow at 10 %. Your money will double every seven years if you leave it alone. So just do that quick math and just know where it can grow to.

Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 19: 2, Desire without knowledge is not good, and whoever makes haste with his feet misses his way. As a rock star, I have two instincts. I want to have fun, and I want to change the world. I have a chance to do both. Bono. That's pretty good. I feel like he does that.

What band was he in? I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I was going to put you on the spot there.

You know what's funny? I'm not good with music, but it is you two, right?

No, it's Coldplay. I'm totally kidding. Yeah, it's you two. Okay.

I was like, Oh, man, that's a very classic. I'm terrible. I can name the Backstreet Boys, but that's about as far as...

Yeah, the same. James Childs just passed out in the- I'm really proud of you, Rachel.

I'm sorry, James. Thank you. And he does a lot of great stuff. I feel like he is definitely a philanthropist at heart.

And financially. And in action.

Thank you. And in action, yeah. With his money. He is.

It's great. The old Bono.

Oh, man. All right, let's go to Darren in Oklahoma. Hi, Darren. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I'm a huge fan of the show.

Oh, thank you. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

So I'm 50. My wife is 46. Happy to say we are completely debt-free.

Good for you all.

On a personal side. So all of our personal finances, our home, all of our cars, no credit card debt. It's all paid off. Now, we have an LLC, and we own 15 single-family homes. Nine of those single family homes still have small mortgages on them. And when I say small, most of them are less than $10,000. Some are around the $20,000 to $30,000 range. But all total equity-wise in those rentals is about $1. 5 million. My CPA is telling me this, as these mortgages are getting close to being paid off, my CPA is saying, Look, You've enjoyed this cash flow for all these years. And because you have these mortgages coupled with the expenses that you have with the rentals, with insurance and things like that, taxes, you've enjoyed the luxury of not having to have a very high tax burden. As these mortgages start getting paid off, your tax burden is going to increase. So his advice to me is, as these mortgages get down to four and $5,000, go borrow $10,000 against that house to keep that mortgage going. Stick that $10,000 in your checking account or do whatever you want with it because that money is not taxable.

Therefore, your tax burden over the next few years is going to continue to stay low because you have these mortgages to help offset that income. Now, on a personal side, I've lived by Dave's principles for the last 20 years of, Hey, all this debt needs to go away. And that's what we've done on a personal level. But from a business standpoint, what my CPA is telling me makes sense However, because of how I've conditioned myself for the last 20 years to be completely debt-free, it's hard for me to do that. So what are your thoughts on that?

If Dave was sitting here, I think he'd say, Fire your CPA.

I figured that might be his response.

Yeah. And when he's talking about saving on the taxes, is it because you're not able to write them off? What does he mean by that? Or the income coming in, it changes your tax bracket? What's he saying?

That's it. Because without those mortgages to take off of that taxable income, it's going to change my tax bracket.

You're having to pay for it. Yeah.

That's correct. So he says, Borrow this money and reinvest back into the houses if you want to, because that money is not taxable. And whereas if the mortgage was completely paid off and every dime of that is going into your pocket every month, then your tax- You're going to be making more money on it.

Sure. Right. Correct. But also, the way the taxes are staggered, and again, your CPA knows the numbers, I understand this, but it's not going to be the full amount. Once you hit that bracket, yes, the income above that bracket It will be taxed at that new tax level. But to avoid the taxes by taking on more debt is what we would say, that you're continuing to take on risk, and you're continuing to live in a system at which people own you. I mean, you don't own it free and clear at that point. And so taking the hit on the income to pay taxes to be free, I mean, I take that all day, versus freaking trying to play this game where I'm borrowing on this and borrowing on that.

I've been hearing about this for months now. So take one of your houses. I want to play this out mathematically. Take one of the houses that you own, okay? Is it $100,000 house, $200,000 houses?

They range from about $100,000 to $200, yes.

Okay, so you're doing mostly low-income housing, right? You got 15 of them?

Well, in this area, that's considered a fairly nice home. Okay, great. Northeast Oklahoma, $200,000. I mean, I've got a 3,000-square-foot home on the golf course that's paid for free and clear that I paid 310 for.

So it's really nice. Okay, so 310, what do you rent that house for?

Oh, the 310 is my house. Okay, yes. The $200,000. I've got a $200 rental. I rent it for $1,500 a month.

$1,500 a month. Okay.

That one has no mortgage.

No mortgage. All right. So what do you pay annually on taxes on that house?

About $1,000.

Okay.

So- The total tax burden on all 15 homes is about six grand.

The complete tax burden?

That's correct. Taxes in Oklahoma are dirt cheap.

Okay, so if you had 15 houses, and you went and borrowed $10,000 on them, and you put that money in a checking account, what is 15 times 10? $150, right? $150, right?

$150, right?

What is $150,000 times 6 %, which is the minimum you'd get a loan for? Mm-hmm.

Point sight, yeah.

$9,000.

You need to fire your CPA, dude. Because his little trick just cost you three grand.

What you're paying in interest to the bank. You see what I'm saying? You're going to pay this money- It's outweying the interest of what you're going to- Yeah.

Then you're paying more in interest to the bank in taxes. If you were in California and your taxes were 700 %, right? I'm being ridiculous, right? Or in Texas, the property taxes are astronomical in Texas.

Right.

Then you might be able to prop this game up. And I still think it's a mathematical case where I'm right. But in just your situation, you're paying six grand total on all the property taxes against these places. Are you talking about earned income tax?

It's the income tax.

Okay. All right. There you go. Yeah. My math problem.

Yeah, but still, I'm like, from the tax bracket, which I don't have in my head right now, you're offsetting the 6 %. To your point, though, the interest you're paying versus if you're going to bump up a few percentage points to pay extra. To what? Yeah. So when you actually run it out, well, what is it? What's the difference? Because you're paying something to take money out of this home to loan it, right? For sure.

And so- Well, in interest, and all of the above.

Yeah. And so at the end of the day, what are you really saving? Because while these houses are great, they're not $800,000 homes that you're renting out, right? That you're going to be taking- Correct. Here's the thing.

I hear this all the time. I hear, and I'm just going to get an egregious name, right? Elon Musk doesn't make a salary. He owns this much, like hundreds of millions of dollars of stock, and he goes to a bank, and he takes a loan out against that stock, and then he gets that loan, and he gets to spend that interest-free. Okay? And I'm hearing... I'm going to move this over here. You're playing... You got 15 houses. It's just not a small... You got a good business going. Yeah. I'm telling you, at least off the top of my head, and I can't do the math. I do the math on the property taxes, not on the earned income tax, and you're correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm not playing that game for one reason. I don't want to keep up with it. I want to own my houses. I don't mind paying the taxes. I'm going to play a game where I loan this bank money and you borrow money from me and I'm going to give it to you.

I'm not, dude.

I'm going to pay the taxes that I earned. All right.

Thank you guys so much, John. Great hour of the show. Thank you, America, for listening. Remember, there's ultimately one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.