Transcript of Are You Investing in Tomorrow or Robbing It?

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and of the runaway hit on Ramsey Network called Front Row Seat. He's my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Joseph is in Orlando. Hi, Joseph. How are you? Hey, I'm doing good. How How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yes. I'm in a current situation, but if I get into it, I just want to say I'm a big fan. I've been watching this show for quite a while.

Thank you.

Yes. I am 31. My wife is 26. And I read the Total Money Makeover book, and I want to pretty much get a look at that. I have about what We have about 62, 65,000 in debt, and I'm trying to convince her to stop using credit cards, but she just doesn't want to. She keeps saying that she We want to get points, that there's benefits to it. I'm trying to convince her that we need to try to stick to a budget and to get rid of the debt. I had a plan to get rid of it in about two and a half years, but we keep pretty much... We're just stuck in maybe step one. I can't even get a thousand for the emergency savings, and we keep running out of money and then having to use the emergency fund.

No, How long have you all been married?

We're about three and a half years.

And what's your household income?

Together, it's 115.

Okay. Well, you did The classic man mistake. Women seldom make this mistake, but men often make it in this exact conversation. The man mistake that I have made in my younger years, I don't do it anymore, and the one you made was, you read something and got some new information that she doesn't have, became inspired, and then walked into the room and announced what we're going to do. Instead of talking about why we're going to do it. Let's start again. Walk into the room and say, Honey, I'm sorry. I goofed up. I'm really excited about this idea of getting out of debt because I'm really terrified of where we are right now. We make $115,000. We owe $65,000 in debt. We can't even keep $1,000 in our account because we do such a bad job of handling money. This is terrifying me. I need your help to look at that and dream with me about what it would be like to have no debt, to have a plan that we are both in agreement on on where we're going, and then we will decide how we're going to get there together. When she says, Yes, I believe being debt free is the shortest path to wealth, Now she's caught up to you.

But you're also the only one doing the budget. You're the only one handling the money. She's acting like a little girl over here, and Daddy's got her on an allowance, and he gave her some credit cards, and now he's trying to take them back. The credit cards represent unlimited. I get to do whatever the hell I want to do. That's what they represent. You're trying to take that away from her with no reason. Because why would you ever give up that? I mean, you ought to just run for Congress. Just spend everything in sight. There's no reason. But if we're going to both be grownups and we're both going to look at a future we both want attain, and we both are willing to pay a price to get to that future, then easily we start doing away with credit card usage because it's not going to take you to your future. No millionaire ever in the history of man has ever said, You know, Dave, the way I made all my money was airline miles. That's the biggest load of bull crap I ever heard in my life. But people believe it, but they use it as an excuse to say, I want to get what I want to get when I want to get it.

You're not going to tell me no, because before you told me I could do whatever I wanted, and now you're trying to take my candy away.

Yeah. I mean, I've had difficult conversations with her before, and I let her know how much we have in that. We want We both want to get out of debt, but I- No, you don't.

I know. I do- You want to get out of debt. She doesn't want to get out of debt.

When she says she wants to, but she doesn't I don't want to get on board.

I want to use credit cards and spend money we don't have and blow up the budget. It's not somebody that wants to get out of debt.

Yeah.

That's not true. Okay? I want what I want. If we can also get out of debt while I get what I want, then that's okay.

Let's circle back because I've got a thought process for you. But one question. What makes you... I know what Dave says, and Dave's right. She didn't want it bad enough. But what makes you tell us that she wants to get out of debt? What response she giving you to make you say that?

Well, when we talk about our future and even including kids, just start having kids, one of the things she says is she wants to get out of that first before we have time to have a kid.

Okay, great. All right. So Dave's right, though. She doesn't want it bad enough to change what she's doing. So here's a process that I think will work, but you're going to have to stay with and you don't do them all at the same time. But you're going to have to talk to her. As Dave said, go back to the example Dave gave you. Hey, babe, I apologize. I threw this at you too quick. Let me tell you about how I feel and why I feel this way. You're going to talk about the problem of being broke, the problem of debt, and you got to get really detailed with her. Don't try to solve it, but you got to get her to a point where she begins to feel as bad about the debt as you feel. At that point, when she really gets it and feels bad about this problem.

It's keeping us from having kids.

Then you start talking about, All right, here's the solution. Then, that's the second part, solution only comes after someone agrees with you on the problem. Then the last piece is, Here's the reason for the solution. Able for you to come home and not work outside the home, to have kids, for us to be millionaires, and things like that. That's the process. You got to bring her along. I just think you jumped it too quickly.

You need to Dream in HD, high definition dreams, detailed dreams. Then immediately the human brain starts saying, If that's my desired future, what must be true for me to get there? One of those things is very simple. Quit spending money you don't have using credit cards. Hello. That's obvious then. But behavior is a language. Her behavior says she's not willing to do that right now. Her behavior by defending the defenseless stupid credit on board, that's the behavior that says, I'm not on board. She can say with her mouth she's on board, but her actions scream that she's not. And so the two of you need to have a dream that is so big and so clear and so detailed that you're willing to sacrifice to get to that dream, and you're willing to pay a price to get to that dream. That's living on a detailed written budget. That's not borrowing money. That's not using credit cards. That's changing the way you handle and talk about money in your house. It's all I love those things, Joseph. Thank you, sir. Hold on, folks. Don't panic. Buying a home in today's market doesn't have to be complicated, but it does take more than hope and a quick internet search.

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Org, Equal Housing Lender. Brooklyn is in West Virginia. Hi, Brooklyn. How are you?

Hi, I'm doing okay.

How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

Well, it's been crazy recently. We sold our house just a month ago, and we got about 65,000 now. We're just trying to find if it's better to put Most of all or none toward a new mortgage in this market. That's just crazy. Or if it's better to go towards paying off school loans in a car. Half of my husband's school loans are a little higher than the other half.

You've got about- You're breaking up something fierce. Can you get to where your phone actually works?

Can you hear me right now?

Yes, ma'am. How much debt do you have?

Seventy-five thousand in school loans, and then about 14 in car.

Okay. And you have 65K in your pocket from the sale of the house? Yes. You have any other money saved?

We have maybe $1,000 in cash just for an emergency or something. But my husband is also getting ready to start a new job where over the next year, he'll be able to make up to about $20,000 more than he's currently making.

That's wonderful.

Yes, we're very relieved about that transition.

So what will your household income be at that point?

Well, we're basing our budget off of our last household income No, ma'am.

I'm asking what your household income will be at that point.

Oh, sorry. I was thinking budget. Household income at that point would probably be anywhere between 65 and 70,000 a year. We're a single income family.

Okay, so he was making 50, now he's going to be making 70.

Yes, but it goes over time. So he's actually going to be still making 50 for a bit, and then every few months, it's going to go up with the training.

Oh, I see. And how How long before he gets to 70?

It would be a year. Yeah, so it wouldn't be- Why did you sell the house? Well, we were trying to move to be closer to family. There were some things that just weren't working for where we lived.

He took a job near a family, this new job?

Well, yes. Well, he was already working at the... The place where he's working now is going to be at the same place where he was working before. It's a hospital. So he didn't have to change his.

Okay, so how far away were you before and what is closer? Were you a long way from the hospital before?

No, it was about 20 minutes. But we were in the opposite direction of where everything is. Things are more from our rural around here. And so we wanted to... We have young kids. We wanted to be able to be around more family.

How far away was your family?

They were not as far as… They were probably 10 to 20 minutes in the opposite direction. To see anybody, it was 30 to 45 minutes, maybe.

I'm so confused. Okay. What was the What was the plan?

Before this call started, what was the plan?

Before you called me, what were you going to do?

We were thinking about putting 20% down on a mortgage, pay off the car, and put the rest of our school loan. Okay.

And buy a house for how much money?

We were looking. We don't want to go up to 150. We were actually hoping to go as low as possible.

What did your other house sell for?

It sold for 129.

Okay. All right. So you're moving up in house and you're moving while you're in debt, and that was your plan?

Yes.

Okay. All right. Yeah, I mean, 20% down and pay off the car, put some towards the student loan, make the move happen. I guess you accomplish all your goals that way. With the $20,000 extra, then we tear into the student loan and finish it off, right?

Sorry, $20,000 extra?

Yeah, you have a $20,000 extra income by the end of the year.

Oh, yes. Okay.

Yeah, let's use that and anything else we can squeeze out of the budget and him working extra. How many kids have you got?

Two.

Okay. And you working extra. Are you working from home? So everybody starts working. Everybody starts making money and we clean up this freaking mess. Otherwise, you don't move up in house. You go rent something cheap and you clean up this freaking mess. One of the two. Okay. But you need to clean up the freaking mess. Okay. Yeah, period. If you put 20% down, that's not a bad plan. What you propose is not a bad plan. I don't like the idea that, Hey, I'm going to move up in house, and that's going to get me out of debt. That doesn't get you out of debt. They put you in more debt. But it's not a huge amount. It's not going to keep you from winning overall. But I think both of you commit to working as many hours as possible, creating as much income as you can create in the following 12 months after you buy this house. The price we're going to Our strategy for this move is we're going to commit to cleaning up this mess fast. Okay. Fast. Okay. That's the trade-off. Okay. All right, we get a new house, but we're not buying new furniture, and we're not going to renovate the house, and we're not going to be doing a bunch of work to the house.

We're going to be getting out of debt. The student loan has been around so long, you think it's a pet, and it needs to go away.

The only thing I'm looking at here is we've I've touched her well, but I want people to make sure that they're always paying attention to the cost of your education versus the income possibilities that are clearly, clearly tied to this degree. Here's an example. Where you got a guy who's been making 50K. He's got a chance now to move up. But $75,000 student loan to get into a $50,000 job. And again, I don't know all the details, but I just think we got to start looking at this stuff. And that's what gave me pause. I feel bad, but this is the message. This is more of a preemptive for a large audience. Be smart about what you think you should be spending in return for what you think you're getting.

Education, especially when you're taking out student loans, which we tell you not to do, is not a luxury. It is an investment. An investment should have a return on investment. If you spend $250,000 getting a master Master's degree in sociology and you take a job with the state as a social worker making 38 grand, that's the definition of stupid. That's just dumb. You can make 38 grand working at Target, stocking shelves, and you don't have to have a master's degree in $250,000 in debt to do it. Just don't make that trade. That's Ken's point. It's a bad trade. Just think this through. Study something. If you're going to spend the money to go to college, study something that's going to give you a return on investment. Get a degree, develop a skill, develop a knowledge base in a career field that's going to cause you to make a lot of money because you're spending a lot of money to get this knowledge base. The degree doesn't. Your degree is worthless, but the knowledge base has a value. Actually having a master's in accounting is absolutely zero value. But knowing how to do accounting at the master's level so that you can get a CPA Well, that has a value, a marketplace value.

The actual knowledge base has value.

I also want to call back to something you said here, because brook's still listening here. The renting option, I thought was a really good call out because they're in an area where housing is not very expensive, although it's relative to the income there. In this situation, renting for a bit may not be a bad idea to clean up this debt, and he gets the raise. I like that you brought that up as a possibility.

If you went and rented something cheap for two years and through the whole '65 at this, it doesn't make me mad. That's where I was leading. And clean it all up. That's the thing a lot of people do. The other one is not... I think that's wiser to Ken's point. The other one's not in the stupid column. It's just not as smart as that is. But it's a double move, which I think you've already moved again anyway. I can't figure out and ask her where she's living, but they already sold the house. They've already got the '65. Where are you living, pray tell? I got to feel in mama's basement, but we'll see. Okay, so we'll just figure it out from there.

But either way, I didn't ask, so I don't know.

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Restrictions apply. See boostmobil. Com/ramsey for details. Cassandra is with us in Ohio. Hi, Cassandra. How are you?

Hi, I'm doing okay, yes.

Better than we deserve. How can we help you, ma'am? Yes.

So my husband was a CDL driver for a company and was fired at his workplace for workplace gossip and petty reasons. He's currently working three jobs and at a time where there should be so many jobs for CDLA drivers, and there isn't. We've been struggling and we're wondering how we can put our money to good use.

How long ago was he fired?

He was fired August 28th.

Oh, okay. A couple of weeks back.

Yes.

Well, I disagree. There's lots of CDL driver positions out there. They're everywhere. They are dying for CDL help out there. He just hasn't found it.

Right. We had got in contact with a few different CDL places, a whole bunch of different transportation services, and they said that they couldn't hire him because he was fired for… He was fired, so they can't hire him unless he's had a job for a year afterwards.

That's not true. He wasn't fired for any driving violation is what you told me.

No.

He was fired because he's run his mouth. Yes.

Right. Yeah.

Okay. Has he learned his lesson on that, by the way?

He worked in a private business with cultural differences, and the workplace gossip wasn't his fault. He didn't have anything to say on it. He wasn't even talking about it. He had a few people that did not like him for him having basically a hard to work with work ethic.

You're a sweet wife. I don't think you got the real story, and you believed it. But anyway, I'm going to ask him if he's on the phone, did he learn his lesson or not? But he shouldn't keep you from getting a driving job if you're running your mouth. He did not hit something, he did not wreck something, he did not hurt someone, he did not get convicted of a DUI. All of those things are things that keep you from, disqualify you from using your CDL. Correct. Coleman.

Yeah, I think here this is where he can't do the traditional applying for jobs thing because of this type of situation. When people don't have the whole story, or they're worried, or they're trying to protect themselves, There's always a filtering, whether it's a human filter or AI. In this case, what he has to do is this is him working harder than he's ever worked before to make a personal connection with people so they know the story. He's got to own it, by the way. He's got to own it. There is no spin because people react like Dave reacted. I was feeling the same thing. I don't want to hear some hard to prove story. I want somebody to go, Here's what happened. Here's what I learned. You eat the humble pie right in front of people. But what they really need is they need somebody they can rely on to get the truck from point A to point B. This is where he's making every connection that he's ever had. He is working it. It's not just applying online. He is actually sitting down with people because I'm telling you, if I were to draw a circle around your house 30 minutes each way, just total circumference, I'm telling you there are people who need somebody like your husband that they can depend on to get truck from point A to point B, but he's got to find it.

It's like a scavenger hunt on steroids, talking to real people. That's how you get out of this. Now, tell us what he was making, and tell us what he's making with these three jobs.

He was making $27 an hour with a lot of overtime. That would come to, I'm guessing, anywhere between 5,000 to 5,500 a month, sometimes less. With these three jobs, he's working one job at a remodeling for $15 an hour, and another job for hauling for Amish family for hauling produce. That pays about $7 a pallet, which in a week, he can get about $500 from that. Then for his other job, he works temporarily until wintertime comes for a person who does CDL hauling for a large equipment, and that pays $25 an hour. He only gets those jobs maybe a few hours a day.

Okay, so it's only been a couple of weeks. He's making what? Roughly half of what he was making before?

Yeah.

Okay. That's not why. There's two answers to the question. One is, do all the stuff Ken's talking about and go get the new job. Okay? That means hanging out at a truck stop and walking up to guys at the truck stop and going, Hey, you know anybody's hiring? I got a CDL. I'm looking for work. Then you go, Hey, George. You don't tell them you met George 10 minutes ago. George told me you were hiring over here. Okay? Henry told me you were hiring over here. Okay? And you go knock on the door and you go get the job. That's what Ken is talking about. The second part is your original question is you have to prioritize your budget, and we take care of necessities. When we were in the seventh grade, they used to teach a class called Civics, and they would teach you what are necessities: food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. We have to put food on the table first, and that's not going out to eat. You don't need to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. You're broke. We're buying groceries. That's It's it. That's all. Food.

You're cooking from scratch. It's healthier and it's cheaper. Clothing. You're probably okay. You probably got enough clothes in the closet. The kids probably got enough clothes in the closet to make it a few months. You're probably okay. If somebody's got their toe sticking out of one of the shoes, buy some shoes. But really, most people are okay on clothes. Most people have way okay on clothes. The third thing is you pay the rent or the house payment. So food and house payment, minor purchases of clothing, gasoline in the car and car payment if there's a car payment. You got enough coming in to do that. Then some of the other stuff is probably not going to get done right now. But you eat, you have a place to live, you keep the lights and water on, keep your utilities going, and you keep gas in the car, and he starts looking for a better position. But I would not let the words come out of my mouth again. I would not speak this lie over your life that no one's hiring CDL drivers in your area who have been fired for a non-driving violation. That is not a true statement, and you should never say that again.

You should say, We haven't found the person yet who is hiring a CDL driver who has been fired for gossip, but they are around here somewhere. We just haven't found them yet. That is a true statement. It's hard to find them. That's a true statement. I'm okay with that. We're out here scratching and clawing. That's a true statement. He's not lazy. He went and got three jobs. Way to go, dude. What a good guy. But I would never say in the interview ever again, cultural differences He worked hard and they didn't, so they hated him and fired him. I would not say stuff like that. That's not very appealing to a potential employer. Say, Listen, I was accused of gossip. I may have said something I shouldn't have said. I don't know. It's not who I am. I'm a hardworking guy. Let's go drive some truck. I would just leave it at that, man. That's right. Just own it a little bit and move on. But I wouldn't try to throw it back on them that they're cultural different. Then they're trying to figure out, Well, what cultural differences have you got with me? Hard work?

What's your cultural difference? You're trying to figure it out.

You'd be better off going, I worked with a couple of butt holes, and I was a bigger butt hole, apparently. People buy that. That's true. They go, Okay, I've been in that situation, right?

That could be true, too.

They can resonate and All right, you let it get to you.

Yeah, we had a little contest, and I lost. That's a real thing. I can buy that as a potential employer. But the great news is, CDL is in great demand. The great news is that you don't have a driving violation that caused this. It's not in great demand. Very hard to get a job if you tore something up or hurt somebody. Very hard.

By the way, heavy equipment. A lot of times, CDL people can get those jobs because, again, they've done through so much qualifying. I'd be looking, driving around everywhere where you see this stuff. You'd be surprised.

When you're delivering some of that heavy equipment, ask if they need somebody to drive it. That's right. Yeah.

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I had a tail of B-Wagon. Dave, how are you?

I'd be great. Better than I deserve. What's up?

We are facing a question on what to do with our home. So for background, we bought this house in May of 2024. And at the time, our take home was about $10,000 a month, and our monthly payment was between 25 % and 30 %, as you all would suggest. Some things have changed in our life since then. Primarily, we have a new baby, so she's four months old, and my wife has gone to part-time instead of full-time. So our take home pay has gone from the $10,000 down to about $7,000. This makes our monthly payment be around 40 % of our take home. And we've also had a few other new circumstances, such as our neighbors have completely gone off the rails, it seems. And we're really considering moving, both to lower our monthly payment, as well as to maybe get into a slightly better situation. We have identified three options that we would like to do. So the first being to stay where we are and refinance when rates drop and try and just lower that monthly payment, maybe even recasting our mortgage because we have a fairly significant amount of cash liquid right now that we could put a significant down payment on there to lower the monthly payment or to move to a smaller situation where we'll have around that 25 %.

Okay, you make seven. How long before you make 10?

Probably in the next four to five years, three to four, maybe.

Okay. What did your wife do for a living?

She is in data analysis. She works for an agrochemical company, and so she does that from home, which has been very convenient with the baby.

But she's gone to part-time hours?

She has, and she's expressed that she would like to just be full-time, stay at home mom, because it's just been wonderful having the baby and something we really enjoy. And if we can make that work financially, that would be nice.

How much cash do you have?

About 150,000 liquid.

What do you owe in the house?

That includes 360.

Where'd you get the 150?

So a little bit. We've been very frugal over the course of our life, but I want to- Why didn't you put it down on the house in the first place? I think we were a little scared. We were very conservative.

And now you figured out what to be scared of is the payment, not the cash.

Yes, yes, absolutely.

What's your interest rate? 7.

375, which is not great.

Yeah, you can get a 5. 7 now. That's a point and a half shift. Yeah, I'd refinance it and put the 150 on it and just stay there. Unless the neighbors are so crazy that you have to move. Maybe hold a little cash back to build a fence. I don't know.

True. It's been multiple arrests and- Large evergreen trees I don't know.

Yes. They grow fast.

I mean, is there any safety issues for you? Do you fear for your family's safety because of all this nonsense?

There have been times, I mean, explosions that have shaken our house.

They're running A crack house over there?

Yes.

For real?

Yeah, for real.

What price is your house?

It was 500,000. That's a lot. And this was not an issue when we bought it.

I'm I'm not speaking for Dave. This is not an official show response. My response is, if I knew that, what you're telling me, I'd be out. I'm not going to keep my family there. It takes one crazy night.

The whole thing could explode. Yeah. For real.

There's a little bit of a change. There's a new owner. Somebody bought it, but they're allowing the guy that continues to live there to continue as a living estate.

Well, then it's still a problem.

On the precipice of death, but yes.

He's on the precipice of Death, and he's running a crack house? What is this, Breaking Bad?

It could be a half-hour show right here.

Yeah, I'm hearing this. This is amazing. Well, if you think your family's in danger, it's a no-brainer. Mic drop. I'm out of there, okay? If you think you can outlive the guy and outlast him and survive, and he's either going to blow himself up or die or whatever is happening to him, good Lord. And you want to stay there and then recast the mortgage. But I wouldn't recast the mortgage and then move months later. Yeah, absolutely. That's throwing good money after bad. If you recast the mortgage, you're staying.

Can we recast the mortgage and get the lower interest rate?

No, you just have to refinance. It's not a recast. You'll refinance. You'll reset the mortgage. You refinance it on a new 15 year, start again with 150 more down, and then suddenly you can afford the payment. Yeah, for sure. That's if you want to stay there. If you don't want to stay there, that's okay. There's nothing wrong with either option. Moving down, she does not like the house enough to be willing to work a few hours a day to keep it. She doesn't like it that much.

Yeah, I forgot to ask how she feel about the nuts next door. I'm telling you right now, Stacey would have already made that decision for me.

You'd be done.

Well, yeah. It's just why play with fire? If it's as bad as he says, and I believe him, I just don't get it why you would leave your family there.

Yeah. If you think you're If you're in danger, you're out of there that instant. I don't know how... It sounds very bizarre. But if you're in danger, you should leave. No question. All other parts of the conversation aside, very simple. If you're in danger, and crack houses do explode. The whole thing can blow up. I mean, it's very explosive.

If I have a wife at home with a newborn baby and that stuff is going on, you just never know when it spills over beyond their yard.

Do I have any hope that the guy is going to be gone in a short period of time, that's different. But short being a month or two, I can deal with it for a month or two. But if I think he's going to... I don't have to deal with this for three years, no, I'm out of there. I agree with you. I'm not arguing with that. Very interesting.

Wow. I mean, what I would put up with.

Things I didn't have on my Bingo card this morning.

There's that rule. What I would put up with is very different than what Stacey would put up with. That's the issue.

It's like if she's- Happy wife, happy life. Yeah. Yeah. Safe wife, happy life. There's that, too. That one, too. I'm afraid my wife would shoot back.

No, here's what Sharon would do. Sharon would walk over there, knock on the door, and have a word with the young man. And not in a mean, because she's not a mean person. She's a straight shooter, but she's not mean. But I see her just wagging her finger. Classic. You're not making good life choices.

Steel magnolia here. Wheezy is knocking on your door, next door.

Yeah, and he probably listened to her.

He's probably scared to death if he knows what's good for her. That's right.

A little East Tennessee fable. She tells a story.

Smile. About the time the guy died doing this. We used to have a neighbor that did stuff like this, and nobody knows where he is now.

Now he goes by one leg, Larry. Now you know why.

Can't find a boy. We don't know what happened to him. It's the strangest thing.

People have a way of dealing with those things in the holler.

Breaking Bad is next door. The guy is dying. He sells the house. He's got a life estate, and he's making crack next door. Breaking Bad.

I didn't see that one today.

I didn't see that one coming. I was not on my bingo card this morning.

I thought he was joking until he wasn't.

No, he wasn't joking. No. He said, Neighborhood's off the rails, but we didn't know which rails. Wow. Bless your heart, man. Coming to Netflix. The more we laugh about this, the more it's not funny, I'd I would just move. I would just move. Yikes. Yeah, I'd move. And just accomplish several birds with one stone. Yeah. Yeah.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Shay is in Idaho. Hi, Shay. How are you?

Hi there. I'm glad to be speaking with you, Dave and Ken. I'm very grateful for your ministry.

Well, thank you. How can we help?

Yeah. My question is around the enjoyment side of money. My husband and I both struggle with that, and specifically around planning and booking vacations. When that time comes around, I just start to feel so much anxiety and shame. About spending so much money on something. It's just hard for us. And so I was wondering if you had any tips.

Well, number one, you have to practice because you've not developed that muscle. Your frugal muscle is overdeveloped, and that's how you got here. Thank goodness. But you've not flexed your enjoyment muscle very much while you were flexing your frugal muscle. Agreed? Probably, yeah. So the more you do it, the better you get at it. I speak from experience. I mean, I had a hard time buying a decent car, and now I don't have any trouble at all.

That has been our struggle as Yeah.

The second thing is I look at ratios, and the ratios are what percentage of our world are we actually spending? And How does it compare to our generosity? We look over here and we say our generosity equals X, and this dinky butt little trip we're doing is a small, small, small percentage of of what we make and what we give.

Okay.

My heavenly Father, who's crazy about me, says, if we, being evil, know how to give our children good things, how much more so our Father in heaven wants us to have good things, in other words. God's not mad if I enjoy some of the blessings that he gave me while I'm being generous and while the amount of money feels like a lot because it's compared weirdly, emotionally to the old days. But as a percentage of my world today, it's a very small amount. That's the ratio thing, the generosity thing, and the acknowledgement. Another example of that is, okay, around Ramsey, we have 1,100 team members. We're in 650,000 square feet. We spend more. We We furnish coffee. We have coffee, these grinding coffee machines on every floor, right? They make fresh brewed ground coffee for everybody, right? And they don't pay for it. It's free to all the team members. We spend more on coffee than I made in a year most of my life. That still freaks me out. It's still a problem, but it's just a matter of scale and ratio. But it's a very small percentage of what Ramsey, the The organization has coming in in revenues.

So obviously, we're not being irresponsible. We're not going to have to shut down because of our coffee. It's not even close. And that's the case, I'm guessing. What's your all's net worth, Shay? Over a million. And what is your household income?

My husband makes 120, and I make around 50.

So 170 with a million. And what are you talking about spending on a on a trip?

They just get more expensive every year.

What are you talking about spending on a trip?

Like 12 to 15. Yeah.

It's absurdly small percentage of your world.

Is that you, Hubs, the kids?

While we were talking about this, the million dollars made you twelve.

That's true. Who's going on the trip?

All six of us.

Right. How old are the kids?

Sorry. They're 6, 8, 10, and 11.

Okay. As a guy who has one in college and another one graduating high school, I'm going to give you two words that I think you need to process the next time you start feeling this shame about spending money because you've already proven to be frugal. Here's what I want you to think of. Return versus regret. What's the return on that investment of the 12 to 15,000 with those six kids 10 years, 20 years, 30 years from now? What's the return on those memories and all of the things?

All right? Mine is still talk about Versus the regret if you don't take those kinds of trips with those six, and then they get out.

I think return versus regret. You've already proven you're frugal. Dave and I aren't here worried about you overspending, but you've got to play those words out. What's the return on this trip? Then what would the regret be if we didn't do things like this and had all this money, but very few memories and experiences?

The return versus the regret does not work. If you're borrowing the money to do it, boys and girls out there in radio land. Hello. Good point. This lady is a millionaire making 170, and she's going to write a check for this. That's right. Don't use this same argument. I put $12,000 on my credit card because kid Coleman said I would regret it if I didn't go on this vacation. No, you'd be regretting being stupid if you did that.

Thank you for clarifying that. Okay. That is within the context of you have cash.

Yeah, you have the money. It's a small percentage of your world. I suspect your generosity is larger than your trip. I suspect. Most people who get where you are, their generosity is there. Hey, you're doing a good job. Enjoy the ride. Yeah. Folks, this is where this falls under the... The reason I have to stop and clarify that is-Oh, you're right. Live like no one else, so that. That's correct. She's at the so that. Later, you can live and give like no one else. But the truth is, what I spend or what someone who has accumulated some Our wealth is a small percentage of our wealth is spent on consumption. Most of it is spent on generosity and reinvestment. The vast majority of the money that I touch, and then it float, that God has blessed me to manage for him is either reinvested for future generations or it is invested in other ways called generosity, back into the community, in some community somewhere, and some dollar amount. Those are the two things that make up the vast majority, the highest percentage by far of our income or of our networth is invested in those two things.

Our consumption, though, is still ridiculously larger than it was when we were not making any money and didn't have any money. It still is emotional. It still feels weird. Sometimes even friends or dysfunctional family will say stupid things like, You're so lucky. Well, that's a dumb butt thing to say. Luck had nothing to do with it.

Don't say that around Dave.

Luck comes in dressed with calluses and overalls, getting ready to do some work. That's where luck comes in. I know where luck comes from. It's a sweat. That's where luck comes from. I got your luck.

Lucks when you win the raffle. Yeah.

Lucks when you were smoking crack in the parking lot and bought a lottery ticket and hit it. That's luck. There we go. Okay, but that's luck. But this is not luck. This is work and God's blessings. God just deciding in his infinite grace that he was going to touch us with the tip of his finger and bless the things that we were working on and protect us and allow us to be sitting here. But don't call it luck. It's insulting to God, and it's insulting to my calluses. If you've listened to me for more than five minutes, you know that being normal with your money is not a good thing because normal is broke. I want you to be weird. That's why I love what we're doing with Fairwinds Credit Union. Our friends at Fairwinds just launched a brand new Ramsey debit card, and it says, Debt is normal. Be weird. Right on the front. I love that because every time you swipe it, you're choosing to live differently with no credit card payments and no debt. You see, Fairwinds has been helping people like you ditch debt, faster, and build wealth for years. They're not trying to shove credit cards or auto loans in your face like the big banks do.

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Well, my wife and I, we're both semi-retired. I retired a while, eight years ago, and then I worked part-time for the company I retired from as a consultant, and my wife works a couple of days a week. We are getting ready to sell our house. It's too big for us, downside, that type of thing. We have a place in Florida that we're going to go to. But in the meantime, Sometimes our children are grown and they're all over the world. And we have one in Colorado who a while back they asked us, Hey, it would be great if you guys would come out here and stay with us for a while and do things and blah, blah, blah. And we said, Sure, that'd be great. And they didn't have a house, so they were looking for one. We entered into an agreement that we would give them money for a down payment. Some, they had half, we had some. And the agreement fell apart here. Now there's some animosity a little bit, and they want to pay us back. We sent them the money, which was $117,000 as a gift. We did the gifting paperwork.

They bought their house, and now they went out and they said, Do you want to pay us back? And I'm just concerned about So one thing is taxes, and we haven't really gotten into the meat of it yet. I'm concerned about where they're going to get the money from, and I think they'd take it out of their retirement accounts, which I don't want them to do. And I'm just looking for some advice, what your thoughts are.

So you're partners in the house? It was not a gift?

No, we're not partners in the house.

What's the agreement you're referring to?

Well, they bought a house with a finished basement with two bedrooms, bathroom down there, family room, different things, and space for us where we could come for two, three months out of the year.

Oh, so the agreement was you could live in the basement three months a year? Yeah. And now they don't want you to because they're mad. What did they get mad about?

No, what happened was we told them right up front, we said, Listen, we need our own space. There'll be times when we'll get on each other's nerves. We know we don't need to be together 24/7. We'd like a place to cook some meals so we don't have to all eat together all the time. And we agreed to that. Then they bought a place and they said, Well, it's not as big as we'd hoped, so we're going to have to share that space and that's not going to work. And some of them, it just fell apart.

And so now they're- What's the animosity?

The animosity is, well, it's really just that we said, Well, no, the agreement was this, and they said, well, no, we told you that changed. And we said, no, you didn't. And so it grew from there.

And they said, well, we don't have this over our head. So what is your net worth?

Well, we have no debt.

What's your net worth?

I would say almost three million. We have absolutely no debt. We have IRAs. I have an IRA with 1. 5, another one with 400.

I'll tell you what I would do. I would call them up and say, I'm really sorry, I entered into a really stupid idea. The whole thing we started doing was a bad idea because it really was a bad idea. Your agreement was really a bad It was a bad idea. I would just tell them that it was a bad idea. You know what? We're just going to forgive the debt, and you don't have to let us stay there. We won't ever stay there. We'll stay in a hotel when we come visit, or we'll get a condo when we come visit. We've got plenty of money. The money doesn't matter. We don't need a place to stay. You don't need to live in somebody's basement when you have $3 million. Yeah. A bad idea. Yeah, we know now. So just let them off the hook, dude. That was a screwed up mess.

Yeah, it sounds to me like they're paying you back out of spite because of the way that everything went down.

They didn't like you that you argued with them about where the kitchen was.

I think you got to be the parents here. I know your feelings are hurt. This is not about Dave and I taking a position. No, hold on. You got to hear this.

I am taking a position.

Well, I'm seeing a who's right and who's wrong in their argument.

Oh, you are? Yeah. This is a dumb idea. I never like it.

I was going to add something.

It's out of $3 million, 117,000. Forget it. Just walk away. It was a dumb idea.

Be the parent is what I'm getting at here, and just take the high road and let them off the hook and solve this thing.

You know what? I'm sorry. I didn't think about how screwed up this was going to be. It's only 100 grand. Screw it. You can have it. I'll just get an apartment. I'll get a condo when I come to Colorado, or I won't. Don't worry about it. It's okay. Forget it. Because you should not have asked for this to be the deal. It's a bad idea. Did I mention that?

You did, clearly. I thought you covered it from every angle.

What is it you were going to add before I so rudely interrupted you? I did.

I did. That he needs to take the high road here.

Okay.

My point was saying who did what and all that is irrelevant. You, as the parents, realize you did a dumb thing and put them in a tough position because when they change your mind, you got your feelings hurt. I think you got to go, You know what? Let's just let this thing go away and be the bigger person here so that Christmas and Thanksgiving isn't awkward. My gosh. I just think I'm looking at how, and I'll brag on my in-laws for a second. They have for years and years and years, Stacy and I have been married 27 years. They have always taken a position where they never, ever wanted us to feel pressure about anything. I just really admire that. I didn't plan to say that, but I'm telling you as an experience, that's how we want to be.

You mean you're going to their house for Christmas? You mean you're going to their house for Thanksgiving? That didn't come up.

Okay. That's good. No, because they've always said, You guys do what is best for your family.

I can't believe you're going up there again.

That's right. Yeah, and they didn't keep score either.

I'm telling you, it's a thing. It is. Sharon and I, we made a decision early on. When in doubt, go over there. Right.

Yeah.

Go to the other one. When in doubt, it's okay. It's okay. We're going to see you. That's exactly right. It's going to work out. But this is only 100,000, Allen. Really, you guys, you chipped out when you thought you were getting a place to stay for three months a year for 100 grand. You shouldn't have done that. It was a bad idea. You put a pressure on something that shouldn't have been there. Good news is you got plenty of net worth. If it was a big percentage of your world, we might have to discuss how they can pay you back, but I would not allow them to pay you back.

Rent a house down the street, then you got your own place, which is even better. You leave the grandkids with them screaming and crying. You go back to your little peaceful place.

I think this one's broken. I'm going to hand it back to you. This one's crying. I don't think this one's working right now. I think I'll let you handle it. Can you imagine David sharing in Rachel's basement and you're cooking away down there?

You decide it's whatever night and it's stinking the whole basement of. I mean, the whole idea just is crazy of living in your kid's basement for three months.

Well, it would be different if you were broke. Right. Yeah.

No, this was like a vacation. I know. An empty nester. Hey, we'll come and spend three months with you.

I'm going to come hang out just because I want to. That's great. Oh, my goodness.

Boundaries.

Yeah. The other thing is, words matter. A gift is not a gift if it has conditions. It is a purchase of ownership in the basement. It's not a gift. A gift has no strings attached. So But yeah, that's the thing. Allen, I would just, please, just let it go. Just let it go. Just play frozen on the radio and let it go. Just like that, just over and over. So true.

That's the answer to so many relationship ills, isn't it? Yeah.

Just let it go.

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Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

My husband inherited an annuity approximately 20 years ago, and it is currently worth about $233,000. He is 72. We keep rolling it over into different products because we just can't quite come to grips with taking some of the money out of it and getting a huge tax implications So I didn't know if there were any ways, potentially, that we could, if we ever need the money, which currently we don't, we are completely debt free, and it's a fixed and fixed annuity. And is there ever any way to get the money out of there without being hit on taxes so much?

Before you said that, did you say it's a fixed annuity? It is. Oh, gross.

I know, but when you inherit it, what are you going to do?

Well, you can roll it to a variable annuity without any tax implications. A variable annuity is a mutual fund inside of an annuity that will give you over double the return you're getting now. Okay. Yeah, you need to talk to one of our smart investor pros and get some help rolling it to a variable annuity. Variable annuity simply is a series of mutual funds that you can select inside of an annuity. In your situation, that's going to be a far superior product. The No, there's not any way to take... No, but to answer your other part of your question, there's no way I know of to take the money out without paying taxes on it.

Right.

It's a taxable... Basically- You've not paid taxes on the gains yet. The real negative thing is, is you're going to pay ordinary income, not capital gains. It's much like a traditional IRA, traditional 401k. When you get ready to take the money out, you pay taxes on it at your income tax rate, not at not at other things. If you don't need it, I probably would simply move it to a variable. Because I'm like you, I don't want to pay those taxes.

Right. We just leave it set then, forget it, Set it and forget it.

The problem is when the next generation inherits it, it's also going to be in the exact same situation. So somebody someday is going to use this money and pay taxes on it.

Okay. That's That's what I was afraid of.

Under current tax law, as I understand it, I don't know of any way you could do it otherwise. The thing is, it's not like a traditional 401(k) or IRA. You could roll that to a... If you were willing to pay the taxes, you could roll it to a Roth, and it would grow from that point tax-free. You don't have that option here. You can't move it to a Roth. It's not going to grow tax-free. Once you get it out, it's going to grow with taxes. Once you get it out. You're going to get taxed on it, and then the next year, when you make money, you're going to get taxed on it again. Yeah, that's the war-facing. Yeah, that's the problem. I think I'm leaving it in a variable and just do a roll over to that. Now, the variable does have three features to it. I'm not a huge fan of it, but for you, it's an excellent situation. It has three features to it that are nice. One is most of the variable annuities nowadays have a guaranteed minimum rate of return, which is probably about not equal to your fixed. If you put it in mutual funds and they used to make 12, but they only made four, they're going to promise you at least five or whatever the number is.

The other thing is that there's a guaranteed need principal with most of them. If you move 250,000 in and you leave it in there five or seven years or whatever the number is, and it's worth 100,000, they're going to guarantee you the 250, the original principle. You're not going to lose principle, and you're going to a minimum rate of return. Third thing is, it's just like your fixed annuity, you can name a beneficiary on it, and it passes outside of probate. It is not part of your federal income tax or your federal inheritance tax exemption. If you've got a net worth north of 20 million and you're starting to deal with inheritance tax problems, then this doesn't come up. It's not a problem. It just goes straight to the beneficiary. It's not got anything to do with the will either. You can't change it with the will. The named beneficiary is where it's going to go, period. Select the name of the beneficiary carefully because that's where it's going to go. No probate tax, no federal, or there is probate tax on it, possibly, but there's no federal exemption usage on that. It's got some nice features to it, but by and large, we don't use them.

But for you, where you are now, it's a better version than what you got. Maria is in Hawaii. Hi, Maria. How are you?

I'm great. Thank you.

What's up?

In '23… Thank you for taking my call, by the way. Sure. We lost our home in Nulahana Fires. Terrifying.

Everybody was okay? Yeah.

Thank God, yes. Our family was fine. We lost friends, which will forever be devastating.

Wow. What a horrible thing to go through.

Yeah, it's even after two years, it's still surreal.

Oh, yeah.

But we were recovering, and we were very blessed that we bought a place, but we're trying to get back to La Jaina, and we're trying to figure out how financially we can do it without going in crazy debt. We're almost at retire age, and we don't want to spend a million dollars. Well, we don't have it. With that being said, we have two wonderful children. One's in college out of state, and one is with us, and he's going to school, but they're a little too comfortable. I'm trying to put everybody on a budget, and I don't know how to do it.

More forcefully than you have been.

Yes.

Absolutely, yes. What part of the budget is going to the kids? Because I don't have a line item budget for fun stuff for my kids. They take care of that, unless it's a family activity. Let's take the college kid. What's going on in that situation?

We pay for everything.

No matter what it is or when it is?

She just started working part-time. I do take 100% responsibility on this. It's our fault. We made their lives very comfortable.

Yeah, it is. The good news is that you woke up. The bad news is it's not going to be pleasant for them. That's right.

No, and it already isn't.

The conversation would sound like this if it was at our house. Hey, I owe you an apology. I let you live in a world that doesn't exist. I've realized that, and I'm not going to do it anymore. In the real In your world, there's these things called limitations. Money is finite. In your world, it's not. Now it's going to be finite starting now. Here's how much I've calculated that you need a month to eat and to keep a place to sleep. That's how much I'm going to send you. I'm going to pay your rent and I'm going to send you this much for food, or you're on the meal plan, or you're on whatever. This is how much you're going to get. If you want to do anything more than that, you're going to need to work. That's right.

And they do.

They both work- No, no, no, no, no, Yeah. Even if it's not their mother, it's their dad. No, it's you. Okay. No, I'm kidding. You're fine. I'm messing with you. You didn't really throw him under the bus there. What I did was- I love him dearly, though. Yeah, but the two of you have to lock arms and say, We are going to bless our children with a new lesson that money is finite. Okay. What we're doing now is not good for them, even if it's good for you, even if you can afford it. It's not good for them.

When they run out of money at college-They don't go to work. Don't bail them out. No. My car is broken. Last year's day, I got a call from my- Sounds like you got a personal problem. I got a call from my son. He says, Hey, dad, I got a date, and I was very excited that he had a date. Then he was like, he thought that was going to get the money for the date. I said, You got any money? He goes, No, I don't have any money. I said, Well, you're not going on a date.

Hey, you're going to a library. You're going to the library in the park.

I'm not paying for dates.

It's not in my budget. There's a frisbie in the park date until you get a job, buddy.

I don't even think he knows what a frisbie is.

You're cheap. You can get one when you don't have a job. Big news. The Fed just cut rates for the first time all year. 15-year fixed rate mortgages have dropped to the lowest we've seen in 11 months, 5. 71 right now. If you're financially ready, now is a great time to buy or sell. Lower rates could save you thousands over the life of your loan, but you don't need to be on the sidelines waiting on the perfect moment for the dream forever house. Oh, brother, these words we use about housing. It's a house, boys and girls. Get you one when you're ready. Buy an affordable home you love, if possible, when you work with a Ramsey trusted real estate agent. It is possible. It can happen. These pros are handpicked to guide you through the market and keep your financial goals top of mind. Find a trusted local pro for free at ramseysolutions. Com/agents. Laurel is in Colorado. Hi, Laurel. What's up?

Hi. Thank you so much for talking to me. I really appreciate it. Sure.

How can we help?

Well, I am in a transition period, and I'm trying to figure out what to do for employment going forward, and I was hoping I could get your take.

Okay. Tell us about it.

All right. I'm going to go back a little bit in time. In 2019, my husband was diagnosed with an incurable cancer. The doctors, we went to multiple experts, and they all said he had about a year to live. Wow. Thankfully, beyond thankfully, he did great. At about the three and a half year mark, the doctors were all totally stunned and said, We cannot believe how healthy you are. You are doing great. We see no evidence of cancer having come back. We left the office feeling like we won the lottery, like the lottery of life, not the financial lottery.

Amen. Wow. Yeah. What a roller coaster. It was amazing. From a one-year death sentence to three-and-a-half years of healing.

Yes, sir. Wow. We spent the next couple of months thinking about What do you do when life has handed you this absolute miracle? And we said, You know what? He's not officially cured until five years, and this is the time to just go do something that is a dream. We were almost debt free at that point. We had good savings. We had jobs that were semi-portable. And so we decided to just spend some of our savings not knowing how much longer he had, and go live on the road for a couple of years. So we traveled the country, we volunteered in national parks, we helped out in different communities, we worked remotely a little bit. It was absolutely amazing. And by some additional miracle, my husband got a wonderful job while we were traveling, where he makes terrific money and he We can do it fully remotely. So we've been actually able to, instead of pulling money out of our savings to go do this dream for a little while, we actually sucked away a ton of money while we were traveling.

What's a ton?

About $500,000.

That's a ton. That's good.

Why did it go? And we wiped out all of our debt. No debt, and we almost doubled our networth.

Do you own a house?

Well, that's actually That's the perfect question because that's where I am right now. We just bought a house. We decided it was time to settle down again. He was officially declared cured of his cancer. I could almost cry just saying it. Yeah. So we are in this amazing place now. We just bought a house that we love. We paid for it with cash because we've been living well below our means and saving money like the Dickens. And we don't have any debt because we made a point of paying off all our debt as fast as possible. I love your show, by the way. So here I am with my husband. He has a great job. He's still making great money.

What does he make now?

He makes maybe between 250 and 300.

It's- And he's fully remote, and you have a paid-for house, and no debt. Correct. And how much in your nest egg now?

Besides the house, it's about Maybe 1. 2 million.

Okay, so you're sitting on... I don't think you said how much the house is. How much was the house?

About 700.

Okay, so you got about $2 million net worth. How old are you guys?

He's a little older than I am. I'm 49. He's 60. Okay.

Wow. What a great place. I love your story. Thank you, Lauren. I can't wait for the question. What in the world? What question can you have? Yeah, this is crazy.

I almost feel guilty writing in because I know folks have more serious problems than this. But here's my situation. I put my career on hold for the last couple of years because I really wanted to do this thing where we lived our lives for a couple of years because we didn't know if that's all he had. Now that we know we have more time, that Black Cloud is gone. We're in this house that we absolutely love Our expenses are very reasonable. We live very modestly. What's your career? We save a ton of money. I actually have a couple options. I trade. I'm a lawyer, but I'm also a teacher. What do you want to do? Oh, I mean, okay, so that's- It's like you.

Listen, can I tell you something? You've been setting this up. And in setting it up to Dave and I, it's almost like you're embarrassed. So stop all that and just- I am a little embarrassed There is- Don't be. You're blessed. I know you want to do something. What do you want to do? Just say what's at the top of the list. And you can give me number two. Well, give me number one and give me number two. What do you want to do? Say it, Laurel.

Okay, so I have three ideas.

Give One through three. One through three. Quick. Go. What's number one?

Okay, so the first one is a job that doesn't pay a lot, but it helps the community because I love doing community work.

What is it? Name it.

Maybe doing substitute teaching or doing some community education.

Great. Okay, what's number two?

Number two.

Number two would be, you know what? Just dive back in. Make a ton of money, make our nest egg huge, and just suck it up for a few years and have a terrific nest egg.

Being a lawyer is number two?

Maybe, yeah.

Okay, all right. Number three?

Then number three would be somewhere in between. So get a job that's 9: 00 to 5: 00. It pays well, it has benefits. But also, I come home in my job, I don't take my job home with me.

All right. Which one of those three is most exciting?

Number four.

I already know the answer.

None of the above. Number four, none of the above.

What do you mean?

I want a job that pays $250,000 a year, that's remote, using your law degree, and you guys can pick up stakes and go spend four months in Europe if you want to.

Well, it's my husband who makes that money. I know.

No, I was talking about you.

Dave gave you a fourth option.

I don't know why you think that if something has meaning and is helpful to the community, that it has to not pay anything.

You totally stumped her. I know where she's at. Lauren, what is the one- You definitely stomped me. I know because the thing you want to do with the substitute and all that, There's something there, and I was going to say both and. I don't care which one of it's one, two, three, or four. I'm not disagreeing with Dave either. But you've got to determine what it is you want to do right now, and that can change six months from now. You're in a rare situation that you actually can do that, which is why I'm saying both and. But I believe- So do you- I think there's a clear winner in the clubhouse. If you couldn't do any of them, you could only do one. Which one do you choose? Say it.

Oh, I would do the one that pays less and goes back to the community and gives me a lot of- I knew that.

I knew that. Do you know why I knew that? Because I've done this a lot, and somebody always gives the one that they want to do the most first. It's just basic psychology. So here's the deal. Just go do some of that. Go substitute, go teach, go do whatever. And if six weeks in, you go, I scratch that itch and I want to do something else, then do something else, because you are in the rare situation to be able to do that.

You do not have any reason.

Do you think I am? I guess maybe that's part of my question.

You are. You don't have to work.

You don't have to work. Do we actually have enough?

You have enough. You don't have to work. You do. You have enough. You don't have to work. What I And for that reason, I think you can pick your battles and choose what you do and how you do it. And I think there's a lot of things you could do that were without getting in a law firm meat grinder, You don't have any reason to do that. But with the education level you have, you've got a lot of options that pays better than a substitute teaching at the local elementary school. You work your butt off for your money, but your money is never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. Smartvestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options, so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand. Head to ramsey solutions. Com/smartvestor to get connected. Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros.

Learn more at ramsey solutions.

Com.

Com/marvestor. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Anna is with us in Virginia. Hi, Anna. How are you?

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. I really appreciate your time. Sure.

How can we help?

I'm 62. I've been divorced for 10 years. I've never been particularly great with money. My ex-husband was better with it than I was. We never saved a ton. We never got into a lot of debt, but we never made a lot of money. So we did the best we could. I was working remotely for a company for the past five years, and I was making really good money It was good money for me. I would say 70,000, which was more than I'd ever made in my life. But I was let go due to a company losing their contract. That was in June. I just got another job, which I'm very grateful for. So I can hopefully ride that out for the next 10 years to retire. I think I'm in very good health. I think I'd be able to do that until at least in my early '70s.

What are you making in this new job?

The new job, about $45,000. But I also get, because of my ex-husband's very hard work, I have a pension that I get because he works for the Department of Defense. I get about $1,000 a month. That is only until he passes. He's in great health and all of that. That is contingent upon his life.

We're the way to get you to pray for your ex-husband now. I know. I love him, though.

I pray for him anyway.

You probably send him a lot of vitamins.

I know. I love it.

No, don't go on that trip. Something might happen.

All right, so $45,000 from $70,000.

I know. I I don't think I probably handled… I think I was so excited about having that money that I probably didn't do as much with it as I could have. Anyway, so here I am. How can we help today? Here I am. I have About 100,000 between a Roth IRA and a 401k. Good. I have a house, so I own it. I mean, I'm owning, I have a mortgage on it. I only owe 100,000 on it, and my payment is about 750 a month. I have about a 2. 75% interest rate. I don't have any other debt. So how can I be last? What do I do? Tell me what to save, where to put it. I've heard about annuities. No. I don't know really much. No? Okay. I'm very confused about, just give me a plan for the next 10 years to get the most out of what I've got left here.

I How much you start investing into your 401k or Roth IRAs, 15 % of your income. So $7,000 a year.

Okay.

Okay. And do you have a 401k with a match at the new place?

I do. 5 %.

Good. Okay, so definitely go there. If it's a Roth, make it a Roth. If they have Roth available. Okay? Okay. And $7,000 a year. And any other money you can squeeze out the budget, we want to throw the house until the house is paid off.

Okay, so don't... I was thinking, do I pull all that money out and pay off my house and then start? No. Oh, no? Okay.

So just try to- I want to make sure that money is invested in good growth stock mutual funds. Okay. All right. Here's the thing. In seven years, when you're 69, the 100 will be 200 if you don't touch it. Okay. In seven more years, it'll be 400. But that would be 76 years old.

Okay. All right.

That's if you don't add anything to it, and we're adding at least $7,000 a month to it. All of this is invested in good long track record, growth stock mutual funds, Roth everything. Roth 401k, Roth IRA, sit down with a smart investor pro. Any other money we can find, we throw at the mortgage. When you're 70, I want you to have a good nest egg based on this, 200,000 to $300,000 in a paid-for house. Okay. That's what we're aiming at at this point. However, I think you're underemployed, don't you, Ken?

I absolutely do, because your situation is not uncommon for changes to be made. So what were you doing when you were making 70?

I was an executive assistant, but I think, honestly, I was overpaid.

I don't. No, not at all. I know that sounds really weird. No, I don't think you were.

Absolutely not. What are you doing now?

Well, I was executive assistant for a medical courier company. So now I'm actually a courier for a different company. So it's a lab company that picks up- So you took a step down in position to get a job.

Yes. I'm glad you got a job. That's step one.

I admire that. I think you go back into the executive assistant world. I'm telling you something right now with your experience, and I will tell you, and what's What's great about the executive assistant world is your age right now is not in any way a deterrent. That is not going to hurt you, and you might be surprised. I know for a fact. I've got a handful of guys I'm thinking of right now, and their executive assistants are making over $100,000. Easy.

Wow.

Now, I'm not dangling- And they're in their 60s and 70s. That's exactly right. Now, I'm not dangling that out. These are high net worth. These are larger companies. But I'm telling you, you have got real experience. I'm going to throw another organization at you. I want you to look up Bely, B-E-L-A-Y. They sponsor a lot of Ramsey events. I know their owners. They're good people. I've known them a long, long time.

They do virtual assistance.

They do virtual assistance. They are connecting people like you on their website to executives and high networth people who need help. You can do your job for these people from there. If you're technology savvy with computers and all that, you should go to their website today, tell them that we sent you, and just talk to them. See about that. But Dave is right. You are underemployed. I think you ought to be aiming where you are in retirement. I think you ought to be setting your sides high to try to be making 90 to 120 in an executive assistant role. That's what you ought to be looking for.

I would start at 80 if you had to. That's right. But I think you were underpaid before, and I know you're underpaid now. Maybe not as a courier, but what you have the potential to make. There's several elements. We're going to take the nest egg and make it work as hard as we can. We're going to add to it, systematically, 15% of your income. Right now, that's about 7,000 a year. But if we double it, it'll double, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. The third thing is we're going to work on paying off the house with any extra money we can squeeze out of the budget. The fourth thing is, we're going to get our income up so we make all of these things happen bigger, better, faster.

Yes. I will look that delay today.

Yeah, all of that will be fabulous.

But all other companies locally look for remote positions.

Everybody doesn't have to be in your backyard, but you're doing it remote before. But Ken is right. I mean, we've got a bunch of executive assistants inside of Ramsey that make more than that. Yes. That work here. And so not unusual at all. And not unusual at all for them to be in your age bracket either. So all of that is true, and it makes for just a fabulous situation for everyone involved.

We've all done dumb things with money. I've done them with zeros on the end. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it. You got to have a plan. You got to be intentional, and you need to get a budget. You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went. Our budgeting app, EveryDollar, helps you do just that. It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan for every dollar you've got coming in and going out. Now is the best time to get started before the ridiculous holiday spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan. Don't let that happen. You're done making that mistake. Go download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today. Today's Question of the Day is brought to you by YreFi. If your private student loans are in default, it can feel like nobody will work with you. But YreFi was built for this. They'll help you explore a fresh start. Go to yrefi. Com/ramsci. Com Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y. Com/ramsey. Not available in all states.

Today's question comes from Tim in Pennsylvania. Our daughter is 19 years old and failed her first year of college. She applies for jobs but has a bad attitude that I'm sure shows up in interviews. My wife and I are both successful in our fields, are in Baby Step 6, and have $1 million in retirement fund, so it's not like she hasn't had a good example at home. What little savings she has is dwindling away from eating out and subscribing to useless phone apps. We've recently told her that she will have to start paying $150 rent starting next month. She says we are being unfair because she doesn't have a job. But we explained if we lose our jobs, the bill still have to be paid and no one gets a pass. Are we being too harsh charging a nominal rent, which will go into a college fund for her if and when she decides to go back. I am sure this isn't a unique problem as this seems like a generational thing, but we want to help her launch into adulthood. Well, a couple of things here. My personal parenting style on this is I'm not going to fund her for anything, zero, until she figures out how hard life is with a really, really bad attitude.

I think that's the first thing. I don't mind you charging her rent and putting more pressure on her to act like a young adult. I don't think you're being too harsh. I feel like you've probably been a little bit too lax on this situation. But the more you can not bail her out, the more that you can just let her fail. Failure is life's best teacher, and it's going to be hard to stand by as parents and watch it. But I think that's what's necessary here. There's a lot in this that we don't know. There's a lot on the surface here. Really hard to fully go at the source of this, but that's my take on this particular Specific question.

First and foremost, you and your wife have to be in lockstep. No way can you be separated by this child who is misbehaving. The two of us have to be unified in our approach. Secondly, real love says not what feels good today, but real love says, what helps this child be a successful 30-year-old? What steps can I give her now that she doesn't have to cause her to be a successful 30-year-old? I really don't care what her pain is or her winding is in between. I really think that one or both of you have been way soft on this kid for a very long time. Now you're trying to make up ground and you think $150 is tough. I think $1,500 is tough. $150 is wimpy. Yeah. Because that's what she's going to pay if she tries to leave. Okay? I'm going to take a little different position than Ken. Number one, you're lockstep. Number two, every move that you make is an act of love that is going to help her become the 30-year-old that she needs to become. And so her problem is that she's never really had any problems. And so I'm going to help her have some problems.

I'm going to usher problems into her life. I'm going to start creating all kinds of problems. You're paying for her cell phone. Not anymore. I'm going to take it up. We're going to sell it. If you want a cell phone, you're going to have to go get you one. You're paying for her car gas. We're not anymore. If she wants car gas, she's going to have to go get a job. You're paying for everything. You're washing her freaking clothes. You got to stop it. This is not on one-year-old. This is a 19-year-old with failure to launch. No, Tim, this is not a generational thing. This is a parenting thing. Every generation has had people that acted like this, and Every generation has had productive people. This is not a generational thing. All 19-year-olds are not this way. We talk to 19-year-olds that are millionaires. It's just not true. It's nothing to do with the generation. It's got to do with your kid. What I'm going to do is make her life hard, as hard as I can possibly make it, as quick as I can possibly make it. I want her to become highly uncomfortable because the way she's living her life deserves it.

If she keeps living her life this way, she's going to be a 30-year-old. It's a complete abject failure trying to figure out why this world didn't give her what she was entitled to, which is nothing. I'm going to be really kind and strong and gentle, and I'm going to create all kinds of hell for her until she moves out and gets a job. I really want her to leave as fast as she can go. I want her to go get a job as fast as she can go. I want her to be so uncomfortable that she goes and gets a job and goes and gets a life and starts buying her own milk and starts buying her own bread. And suddenly, her character will change. It's going to be the most amazing transformation. But you are going to be called every name in the book because you've made it soft for so long, and now you're changing the program. And changing the program is going to feel very unfair. Baby doll, I am sorry. I owe you an apology. We have been too soft on you, and you're quickly becoming useless. We love you too much to allow you to be useless.

I just love you so much. I'm going to help you have some problems because I want you to be an unbelievable success when you're 30. And so we're going to create problems for you. And you're not going to like me for a while, but you need to know I love you. And you need to know I'll always make you a plate of food. But I'm going to create some problems for See, the eagle, when it builds a nest, it builds a nest out of thorns, long six-inch thornbush thorns. And then it fills the nest with down from anything soft, anything it can find, to where when the baby eagle is born, it is born in complete comfort. As the baby eagle grows in stature and begins to stretch out its little wings, the mama my eagle removes the down every day a little bit more from the nest. Every day, those thorns get more and more pronounced until it's almost impossible to sit in the nest. The little baby eagle has to get up on the edge of the nest because you can no longer sit in a thorn bush in the bottom of the nest.

And then when the baby eagles up on the side of the nest, you know what it'll do? It'll start flapping its wings and it will fall. And then the wings will start working and it will glide. And you know the mother eagle holds her breath, wondering if this is the first eagle that can't fly. But it turns out it's not. It turns out this eagle can fly, but it never would have left the nest if it was comfortable. And an eagle that doesn't leave the nest eventually is known as a turkey. And so little turkey needs to leave the nest. It's going to be good for little turkey. Gobble, gobble. I'm so mean and nasty these days.

No, you're not. I was following you and I thought, well, if the eagle becomes a turkey, then the turkey ends up on the Thanksgiving table.

Oh, you get baked. People eat it. Yeah, that's it.

The world eat you alive. I was tracking that way.

I was trying to-Don't get eat alive. We don't serve eagle. That's what I'm getting at. Egle is not on turk.

You don't see EGLEs on the Thanksgiving table.

That's very interesting. I know. That's a good point.

I thought about that. I was cracking with you. I was really paying attention.

My red neck buddies, they don't go EGLE hunting. They go turkey hunting, though.

No, that's right. We admire eagles. We eat turkeys. Here's a bumper sticker. No, I think it's a great point. By the way, that was a very good description. But I am all for failure. Let the kid fail. You can't keep failing them out because, again, at some point, they're going to figure it out.

Whatever was going on when she failed college was going on when she was in high school and was going on when she was in the sixth grade. That's right. This isn't the first time this has come up. Her little attitude is going to get adjusted out there. Right.

Well, I don't think she's ever had to finish dealing with failure.

She never had to finish the results of her attitude, sucking.

That's it. That's right.

Because that's 100% of the time a bad attitude will cause you to have a bad life, period. That didn't start at college, and that didn't start when she was living in the basement rent-free. $150 doesn't fix that either. That's true.

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Jake is in Texas. Hi, Jake. How are you? I'm better than I deserve, Dave. Good. How can we help?

So me and the wife are about six weeks from selling one of our businesses, and we're going to end up with about 1. 1 million in our pocket when we're done. Plus, we get to keep the real estate.

So we've got a little bit of a mortgage left, and we've got some debt on another business.

We're just not sure to take this money and go to the market or to go ahead and get 100% debt-free across the board. Then go to the market. We're just not sure.

Well, you knew what I would say, didn't you?

Well, I knew what I wanted to hear. Sometimes you just need to hear it.

I mean, if you answer the call better than I deserve, you already know what I'm going to say, dude. The one point You're a million. Have you paid... 1. 1, congratulations, by the way. It's wonderful to grow a business and have a liquidity moment like that. That's incredible. Very well done. You're a millionaire. That's just so cool. I'm so proud of you. Have you paid your taxes out of the 1. 1 yet?

That is our net. I've already calculated all of the.

You're going to have that clear of taxation? Correct. Good. How much do you owe on the business and on your home?

The business that we're selling is debt-free.

We have another business that is- No, the one you wanted to pay off.

We have three auto loans that are about 100,000 combined, and then we have some equipment loans, the two pieces of equipment that are about 100,000 combined.

How much do you owe on your home?

We owe $155,000 on our home.

Okay, so $355,000 makes you 100% debt-free. That's correct. The real estate from the deal you sold is already debt-free.

Correct. We'll get about 3,500 triple net lease on that property.

If you don't have a payment in the whole world, if you write $355,000 worth of checks.

That's it.

Okay. It's a no-brainer, man. I'm debt-free. That's going to leave you 700,000 bucks to do some investing with. Oh, darn.

Yeah. Well, thank you for helping us get here, Dave. You've truly been a blessing to me and my wife.

We never thought we would be- Very proud. What business was it that you sold?

It was an oil and gas manufacturing company that we started it less than 12 months ago.

Wow.

The American dream is dead, they tell us.

The system is rigged. Little man can't get ahead, and you did, didn't you?

In 12 months.

That's incredible. That's a great story. Very well done, Jake.

And by the way, a manufacturing company. You don't see any fancy glitzy brochures and commercials for that.

I didn't hear the word digital. No. I didn't hear it. Heard a building left behind on Triple Net. Yeah, man, way to go, Jake. Wow. Dude, that's incredible.

Explain that to me real quick, the triple net.

Triple net is typically done with warehouses or a situation like he's doing, one of the two. And triple net means that the landlord pays for nothing. If I'm the tenant and I have triple net, I pay my utilities, I pay the insurance on the building, and I pay the property taxes on the building, and I pay anything associated with the building. When I write a check to the landlord, it is net, net, net. All of it. 100% of that 3,500 bucks. His operating income after expenses is the same as his gross revenue. It's like clipping coupons. It's a very nice, sweet little commercial real estate deal. I love a a triple net lease. Landlord has got almost no responsibilities. If there's something breaks on the building, oh, repairs, maintenance, you have to fix it. Roof leaks, you got to fix it.

Dumb question here because I'm just now learning about this. What makes that possible in a situation like that? What are the factors that would allow someone to get that a deal?

Well, typically it is a single-use building, or at least the area that it's encapsulated modulated because you couldn't pay. You couldn't do repairs like on the other end of the building for the other tenant if you're the tenant. It's typically a single-use building. Again, a lot of times it's a very simple building like a warehouse, something like that. I don't know of any retail that does triple net. I don't know if any very few offices do triple net, that thing. Most of those have common area maintenance, CAM in them, those kinds of things, other ways of covering the expenses. But that standalone single-use building. The other thing would be if you did I build a suit, like if you built a Walgreens. If I built a Walgreens and Walgreens was the tenant, Walgreens is probably... Those are probably triple net leases. I don't know if they are, but they probably are. I do know Walgreens doesn't own their buildings. They have local investors build them, and then they pay the rent, and I think they pay all the expenses.

This is a sweet deal. He sells the company that the building is in, but keeps the building, keeps the real estate.

He still owns the real estate and has a low maintenance or no So low hassle check coming in, very low hassle.

Does that tell us that they were so thrilled to get the actual business that they were willing to play ball?

Probably, but it probably is a single-use manufacturing warehouse type building. Got you. Probably a typical way to structure that also. But I don't think he… I mean, I think… But yeah, they wanted to stay in the building. They had an ongoing concern and good place to keep going. Yeah, absolutely. Good. Robertson, Florida. Hey, Robert, how are you? I'm better than I deserve. How are you all doing? Same, sir. How can we help?

Well, me and my wife, we're in a good situation. Very blessed. We have our two children are late in high school, about to retire. We're about We're about to graduate, sorry. So we're about to be empty nesters.

We're looking to buy a second home.

We live in Florida. We love vacation up in Colorado in the mountains when it's nice and cool in the summer when it's hotter than heck in Florida. And we are at a position where we're able to pay cash for that house.

Awesomeness.

The thing is, I've done many of the steps. I like to think that we are well into number seven, but I still have six.

Then you're not in seven.

The current home that I have, I'm struggling. We do have a mortgage.

How much do you own your current mortgage?

$954,950.

Okay. And how much cash do you have available to do the mortgage payoff and buy the Colorado house?

We currently have about 6. 65 million.

Available?

Available, correct. And we're going to use about 3. 5 for the cash on the Colorado house. The issue is, or what I'm struggling with- What's the house in Florida worth? About 4. 3.

Okay, what's your total net worth?

Just over 15 million, and that would not include the value of my business if I were to sell my business. That's just in real estate, cash stocks, Way to go, Robert.

Well, you know the story. I pay cash for everything. And in 34 years of doing this show, I've never talked anybody into paying off their house that they called me back mad.

Well, that's the struggle. I guess I didn't get to that. In 2020, rates were low. I refinanced to a 15-year 2. 25. But knowing that my $10,000 a month is only a 2. 25 on that particular mortgage, that make well more than that.

Hey, Robert, you didn't get rich borrowing on your house. You got rich being smart.

That's the struggle.

I see the- No, you didn't get rich leveraging your house.

You didn't get rich leveraging your house.

It's not where your wealth came from. Your wealth came from being smart. And so you're mystifying yourself with a little bit of mathematics and you're leaving out risk. So if I were you, I would write a check today, and I would be debt free, and I would buy a house in Colorado for cash, and I would be debt free, and I'd be sitting in my two wonderful properties, enjoying life with $15 million networth and not a payment in the world, and not trying to noodle around how I'm making 52 cents on the spread on this mortgage. It's just you're burning a lot of calories here over nothing, truthfully. I'd pay that thing off so fast. It'd be unbelievable. If you hate it, and I'm wrong, you can go get you another mortgage.

Our scripture of the day, Psalm 119: 89-90, your word, Lord, is eternal. It stands firm in the heavens. Your faithfulness continues through all generations. You establish the earth and it endures. Thomas Jefferson said, In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock.

It's my all-time favorite Jefferson quote, actually.

Very, very good. If you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on, pay the mortgage, and afford groceries? If anyone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance. But how do you choose? Well, term life insurance is the best way to do this. It's the least expensive, and you avoid getting ripped off with bad investment plans inside of whole life or permanent life. You only need life insurance while someone depends on you financially. If you're like most people, you need a policy that's 10 to 12 times your annual income for a term length of 15 20 years. It should be a level policy, means the premium stays the same. If you want to learn more about this, use our free term life insurance guide. Go to ramsey solutions. Com/termlifeguide, or click the link in the description, and we'll help you out. Sam's in Pittsburgh. Hey, Sam, how are you?

I'm well, thank you. How are you?

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

My husband and I are trying to make a decision regarding my career, where I would be transitioning from a public school position to a private school position that is very appealing in every way except financially, my income would be reduced by one-third if we made this decision. And we are currently on baby step two.

You're a teacher?

I am transitioning from a service provider to a school counseling position.

Is the reason for the move just desire to be in a better environment, or is it really, really bad where you are?

It is currently the desire to be in another environment with what seems to be writing on the wall where it's going to get really bad in what my current role is.

How long before it gets really bad?

Weeks, months at most, but definitely this school year, I see being very tumultuous with some of the administrative decisions that have been made.

Is it real wear and tear schedule-wise, or is it just something you disagree with? I'm going somewhere with this, so why I'm digging. Sure. What is the decision? What are those decisions going to cause for you specifically?

I am worried about ramifications to my professional reputation based on I have decisions that are out of my hands because it is my role to provide the service, but I didn't get to be a part of these decisions in the way it was changed. But I'm the face of the service to the family, and I do have that concern, especially as someone who... I have at least 20 years until retirement. I have a long road to go, and my reputation matters, and it affects my job and my liability.

Now, what do you do? You're a school counselor? Is that what you're saying?

Yes. My current role is very closely related to school counseling, but I'm finishing my school counseling certification right now with the hopes of transitioning into school counseling anyway. This position has opened up that does not require me to be finished with my certification.

What do you make?

But I'll be able to finish it.

What do you make?

I currently make 74,000.

And you'd make like 50?

I would make 50. When is that- Now, the 74 also, I'll be making increased salary on the teacher steps because I do have a teacher contract. And eventually, the classes I take will also bump me up some of my salary.

All right. So when do you anticipate you're going to be done with Baby Step 2 if you were to stay where you are?

That is a fantastic question. We have tried to plot it out where by May, which is also towards the end of the school year and when I would be finishing my certification.

So it doesn't affect Baby Step 2? I'm sorry. Oh, you make it by the end of May if you do the job change. You make it by the end of May. I'm sorry.

If she stays where she is, they get it done in May.

If you don't stay where you are, when do you get it done?

That's our question. I just learned the salary this morning.

I'm sorry. I hate to keep interrupting. I apologize. But I'm having these thoughts. So are you planning to stay to the end of the school year regardless?

This position, I would be transitioning in October.

Oh, immediately. Okay. That's a third page. Instead of May, it's going to be September or October of next year before you're debt free.

All right. Then another quick follow-up on what you told us. If you take this cut and go to a private school, how long or if ever will it take for you get back to the 70 that you're making now?

I don't know if it would ever happen because it's based on fundraising initiatives and things like that, how they can increase salaries.

I haven't heard enough. I just haven't heard enough, and I may be not understanding how it affects your reputation, but I would hate for you to take this job right now. Private schools are always going to be there. Those positions are going to be there. A third pay cut while you're in the middle of Baby Step 2. I've advised people before to do it if it had some extreme situations to it. I don't see it, Dave. Do you feel something different? I'd almost stick it out as my point and get done with the school year and knock out Baby Step 2 and then look at... But if it's going to harm your reputation.

It sounds like there's an ethics breach.

That's what I know. I can't figure it out.

Yeah, but what they're asking her to do is against her moral code.

Is that what we're hearing?

Yes. I see some Some writing on the wall where there's going to be rather large ramifications, and I actually worry about the long term position security.

Okay. All right. Then I always want you to do what's right. Let me just say that. I didn't quite pick up on that it's that serious.

If that's serious- I don't want to stay where there's an ethics problem or I'm asked to be engaged in something I ethically can't do. I can't stay. But I also don't I want to create that in my mind if the other is just more comfortable. I don't think I'm hearing that, but I'll just warn you against that. It's like, I really want to go over there because it's my people and I'm more comfortable there, and so I'm going to blow the drama up over here in my head. I have the ability to do that, so I have to guard against that, Sam. I'm not saying you're doing that. I'm just saying I can do that. So guard against that. Thank you. If you're going to take it, the other thing... Yes, I'm going to take it, but I'm also going to look for ways to supplement my income utilizing my career field. Is there independent tutoring or independent counseling you can do with your certification that's legal or independent help you can provide a student the parents can pay for on the side, akin to a teacher doing tutoring Those kinds of things. There probably is.

I'm going to look for some side hustle that's in the field that supplements and almost gets me back up there. It's probably going to mean some extra hours, but that's the trade-off for getting away from the slime and getting into a good area. I agree.

That's the strategic question, Sam. How do I replace the one-third that I'm giving up? That's the goal. That's the goal.

It just blows my mind that people can get paid $40 or $50 an hour for math tutoring. Now, that's not your field, but they are. Our reading help, helping people with remedial reading as side tutoring. The money that can be made doing that. I even know one guy who's coaching high school and middle schoolers independently in his backyard with basketball skills. He played D1 basketball, and his side hustle is doing that. He's a personal trainer for up and coming basketballers, and he's making 50 bucks an hour doing it. That's the thing I'm always looking for in this situation. Good question. I hope it works well for you. That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.