Transcript of Debt Is the Enemy of Your Freedom

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, host of the George Campbell hit on YouTube and the Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today, number one best-selling author. We're happy to have the leadership team from Fairwinds Credit Union here with us today at Ramsey headquarters. Welcome, you guys. If you haven't heard, Fairwinds is our new A Studio sponsor. We've had a relationship with them for a little over a year, and they've done a lot of wonderful things for you folks out there that have contacted them, and they've even developed products just for you to get help. As you guys know, I'm not a fan of, actually, I detest large banks. So stuff like Bank of America, why would you do business with them if you don't have brain damage? So are people like Fifth Third? I can go on from there and just name off all of my anti-friends, but I won't. So instead, we tell folks to go to small town, local banks, and to credit unions, and we always have for 30 some odd years on this show.

And because you get treated like a human being there, not a number, and you actually find people there who care. That's an unusual thing, too, in the banking world. That's why we're so excited to have Fairwinds on as our studio sponsor and a partner for Ramsey. They are doing some really cool stuff. You need to check them out. They created the smart bundle for you Ramsey fans out there. It includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, which will help you supercharge that emergency fund. Actually start making some money on that thing. Don't keep it under your bed in a shoe box, boys and girls. The Ramsey debit card just came out brand new. I saw the first real one last night when we were dinner. Yeah, I got the prototype. I got to see it, and it's actually a real one. It says right on the front of the debit card, Dead as Normal, be weird. That's good. Now, that's a way to pay for some stuff right there.

That'll catch some attention from the cashier at checkout.

Well, I mean, when you go to Target, everybody in there that's ever worked there for more than 10 minutes is trained to try to sell you one of their target credit cards. You just have to go, No, look, right here. Read this. Read my card. Read my lips, right? No, right here. Debt is normal. Be weird. No, I don't do your target card, baby. There you go. It's a daily reminder. You're doing money differently, and the Ramsey debit card is officially launching September the 17th. We're there, baby. You can get it. Check it out. Hey, we're so excited about this whole Fairwinds thing, and you guys ought to really... You can't imagine how much trouble we would go to Ramsey to make sure that if we were going to have a credit union doing banking stuff on our studio name and right next to our name, how much trouble we went to to make sure they're good people and that they're going to treat you guys right and not just run you up a bunch of debt or something. They are great folks. Absolutely. We're really, really excited about this. Check out the smart bundle.

It's got the debit card. It's got the no fee checking and a high yield savings account at fairwins. Org/ramsey. Madison is with us in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hey, Madison, what's up?

Hey, Dave. I have some questions for you. Me and my husband are not seeing eye to eye on our car debt, and I need your input.

Okay.

We just had a baby, our second baby, three months ago. My husband pays all the bills, and I just pay the car payment. Well, I'm sick of paying this car payment. We owe about 12,000 on it. We've had it for four years. I'm just like, Hey, let's go get a cheaper car. But he's all about He's like, The older car is not as reliable. I'm like, Is it smart to go get a $7,000 car, pay cash for it, or do we keep making this car payment? I only make 600 a month working part-time and being a stay-at-home mom. Our car payment is 365 a month. I'm like, That is just over my… That's all my money, basically.

How long have you guys been living like roommates, like this, splitting up and Venmoing each other?

Ever since we got the car, he's always provided. He's always paid everything.

No, darling.

The car.

No, darling. Answer George's question.

This is a pattern. There's other things going on here. This isn't just about the car payment, but you're making 600 bucks a month, and he's like, Well, that's your car. You handle the payment. I'm not touching that.

Hand him one of those kids and say, That's your baby. I ain't touching that one.

Okay.

Yeah, this is ridiculous. Okay, stop. It's ridiculous. The way you all are doing this is what's causing the problem. Okay? You need to combine your finances. All of your income is our income. When you went down the aisle, the preacher said, And now you are one. He didn't say, And now you're a joint venture, and I sure hope you can pay your car payment with your part-time job. The preacher didn't say that. Okay, no, he didn't. You guys need to combine your lives because have combined your bed and your children and everything else. So this idea that you have to argue over who paid for the mustard in the refrigerator is asinine for a married couple. You guys need to sit down together, develop a game plan, work together on the whole thing. Then, yes, you'll probably need to sell this stupid car. I don't disagree. This idea that there's no such thing as a reliable used car is ridiculous, too, because 100% of the time that you drive a new car off the lot, you are now driving a used car.

Okay. Dave, we also have a savings, and we have 10,000 in the savings account. He's like, What if we pay the car off? I mean, we sold 2,000. That'd be okay, too.

But I'm like, No, let's get the other one. That's okay, too. If you want to do that and keep the car, that's fine. We decide that together, and then we have a monthly budget on every dollar, and we are spending our money on our goals, dreams, fears. Okay. Really? Are you going to do that? You really have to do that, hon.

I know. I want to do it. I want to do it. But thinking about the same- Demand it. Dreaming- No, just demand it.

You have to do this because the people who do it have a higher quality marriage relationship, and the people that do it have a higher probability of becoming millionaires. We've got data that backs us up. You guys are not pulling together, you're pulling at each other. When you start pulling together, instead of at each other, you make more progress, both relationally and everything else. When you can agree on your spending, you have communicated at a deeper level of intimacy. When you can agree on your spending, you have agreed on your future, you've agreed on your fears, you've agreed on a stupid car. We can have an argument about reliability versus the $10,000 savings account. We can take all of those things and mix them in together. You're missing out on all of that because you're treating this like you're to your college roommate or something.

No, no, no, no, no, But if I'm completely wrong, you can go back and then you'll see a marriage counselor, which is what you'll need because you can't combine your lives, and that's what you'll be down to. But please try it. Yeah, right now, I can tell they have separate accounts, and he's going, Well, this is my money. This is your money. I'll cover this, you cover that. And hopefully everything will work out. Well, she's going to be in debt and resentful for the next five years. And who knows what he's doing with his extra money? Nobody has awareness or transparency in this marriage. There's no trust here.

No, I don't- Just score keeping. Well, the biggest thing is there's just a tremendous amount of waste in this disorganization and chaos.

Yeah, it's like one of those finger traps. They're pulling away and they're just stuck where they are. You got to be moving in the same direction. That's the key.

I haven't thought of those things in years.

I'm always thinking about those finger traps.

Where do you find that metaphor? I love it. Chuckie Cheese, near you, I think. Chuckie? Coming from Chuckie coming from it. Chuckie cheese near you.

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We're Brittany's in Missouri. Hey, Brittany, how are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

My question is, my boyfriend and I have been together for a year and a half. We've talked about finances upside down and sideways. But from my past experience, a lot of relationships say they're on the same page with finances, and then once they get married, one of them go and end up being a bigger spender than they originally led on to be.

Wait a minute. Your past experience, you've been married before?

I have been, yes.

And that's what happened before? Yes. So you married a man without integrity?

Yes.

Probably that lack of integrity bled into other areas, which is actually why you got the divorce, right?

Yes, absolutely.

Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

I guess my question is, I trust my boyfriend, but how do I... I don't know. I guess I'm terrified that we will get married and then it won't be everything we talked about. But I know it's just my past experiences that are making me feel that way.

I think we talked about it a minute ago in a sense. For me, looking at it, I think it's wisdom to ask the question because you got burned before, right? Right. But the only way to guard against it is to marry a guy of integrity.

Yes.

Okay. I I didn't say he was Jesus, and I didn't say he was perfect. I just said he had integrity, meaning he is who he is, who he is, who he is. I mean, it's like saying, Okay, how do I ensure that my boyfriend won't call his old girlfriend after he's my husband? Because he's a person of integrity, and I would kill him.

Both and.

But I mean, you can't be sure of that, except as sure as you are of the man's character. Yes. You need to date long enough that you are sure of his character. You probably sit down and talk to your counselor, your pastor, about your wounds, which are valid wounds, and go, Okay, I don't want to superimpose the other jerk on the new guy. That's not fair. But I also want to be wise and not let that happen again. So how do I balance those two things? For me, I'm just going to be talking to your new boyfriend a lot about that if I'm you.

Okay. We talk about it every day.

Yeah, he's probably sick of it. Probably annoying him with it. Yeah.

So is he in debt now?

He is not a lot. He's got probably $20,000 to $30,000 in debt. I have none, but I also make no money to be in debt.

Okay. And is he actively trying to get out?

He is. Aggressively? He still spends. No. He still spends, but he is working towards it. I know he's paid off probably $20,000 to $30,000 in the past year.

Okay. So you think in another year, he could be completely debt-free?

Yes. Okay. He could be debt-free in the next six months if he wanted to be.

Okay. So independent of you, whether you were there or not, he seems to be trending in a debt-free direction. His behavior is there. He's not just giving it mouth service. He's actually doing it.

Yes. So I guess my next question is, is it stupid to wait until he's debt-free for us to make the next step of getting engaged? I know you always say to just put everything together and pay off the debt together.

No, I would not base my engagement on debt-free. I would base my engagement on his pattern of behavior.

Okay.

If he's going in the right direction and you're comfortable with his character, and this is who you want to spend your life with, then spend your life with him. If you have to put out a- Ultimatum? I don't know. In order to earn my hand, you will have... That's a little much. Yeah, I'm not doing that.

He's already earned it. How long have you guys been together?

A year and a half. A year and a half. Okay.

So this is still progressing toward an engagement, maybe in the next year?

Yeah. We don't tell people to wait to get married or have babies based on their debt. We do tell them to wait on those things based on how they're treating their debt. Are you being a freaking adult and addressing the issue, or are you still being a baby child?

Right. That's the deal. He's very responsible. He's definitely addressing it.

Yeah, he's doing it. Everything Everything you've described about the guy is solid versus the last guy. But it's fair to say you got burned, and so I've got this spot, and man, you just really... I'm going to be super sensitive about this subject because I got burned before. And so, dude, you're going to have to be super diligent to stay on the path.

I'd share your fears and feelings with him and say, Listen, this has happened in the past. I don't want to project this onto you, but I want you to know this is how I'm feeling. And if I'm him, now I'm going to be real sensitive and probably more aggressive to getting out of debt so that you feel like, Man, he's going to provide. He's not going to be making dumb financial decisions that move us backward.

Brittany, I'll give you an example. We went broke. We had a brand new baby, a toddler, and a marriage hanging on by a thread. My wife was terrorized by our water being cut off, our lights being cut off, and me filing bankruptcy. She was in a constant state of fear. That was 30 plus years ago. I still, as a loving husband to this day, need to be aware that there is a wound when it comes to security around the issue of money with Sharon Ramsey. She's not a walking, wounded warrior. The wound has healed progressively over the 30 years, and my behaviors for 30 years have been different than the get-rich-quick moron that went broke. Okay? I've earned the right of trust, but I, as an act of love towards her, need to remember that if I even walk near the drawer where the emergency fund is kept, where the little file, so we can get to the emergency. If I even walk near the drawer, like I'm going to use that for something else, it puts her in a way different state of mind. I need to keep that in mind in how I interact with her.

This guy needs to keep in mind that you got burned before and you've got this sensitive place. It'll be less sensitive as time goes along, but you just need to be aware of each other's wounded spots and go, Why would we go there? I'm just real aware, Sharon needs to be reminded that we're okay.

We learn it every day by continuing that same pattern of integrity. The crazy part is it takes a long time to build a trust, and you can destroy it in a second.

But even then, it's not unfair to me to, even though I've rebuilt a trust and a pattern has been for 30 plus years. It's not unfair to ask me to be aware that she has that sensitive spot. As a matter of fact, that's just how you live together if you're married. That's fair. It's fair, Brittany, for him to be aware of this. It's not an invalid feeling. It's not an invalid concern.

There's tactical things you can do once you're married, combining your bank account so you both have transparency into what's going on financially, doing that budget together, freezing your credit so that no one can go just take out a loan willy-nilly. If he goes and takes out debt behind your back, well, clearly, there's a very clear violation of trust here. That's your biggest fear, and I think there's things we can do before then.

I guess my point is, in this case, were he to do that, knowing that she has this sensitive spot? This is more than just a violation of trust. This is like saying, I don't really want to be here.

It's a game over.

You're shooting the cow. It's over, man. It's just dumb. Knowing that she's got that spot. It's quite the opposite way to approach it. It's a good question, Brittany. Thank you for bringing it up. It's a pretty standard thing. If you have been down the... You're going into a second marriage relationship. If the first one had some money problems, which, by the way, money problems, money fights, number one, caused a divorce in North America. If you went through a divorce, high probability that there's a money issue in there. Then you take that to the next relationship, and how do I deal with that and not have that happen again? That's why I wanted to spend a minute on her question, because it's not just for her, it's for out of the 40 million people out there listening, it's probably a couple more just like her.

A lot of people have that baggage from previous relationships, whether it's family or a loved one, a marriage. It takes a long time to heal from that and to trust again. At any moment, you're going, my body's saying, This could be broken. This could be broken. Alert, alert. It takes time, like you said, to get away from that and to heal from that. Hopefully, over time, you guys build the right habits. You do the things we teach, combine bank accounts, get on a budget, and that'll disappear into the back of your mind.

When there's no money being spent that you're not aware of and have agreed to, that makes trust really easy. That's called a budget. That's called doing your every dollar budget together as a couple when you're married.

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Hi, how are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So my wife and I were in a serious accident, and we both lost our left leg. And things just... Well, it goes very fast once that happens. So we went in, we're in the hospital, we got out, and now we're starting to do our recovery. And then we got lawyers involved, of course. Luckily, I hit all the right boxes on my insurance. So my medical for our injuries are going to be covered for the rest of our lives. But the lawyers, I didn't know they were so fast. They closed and I said, Hey, in 45 days, you're going to get a settlement of roughly $350,000. And we're factory workers. We try to do the best we can, but we're not prepared for a quarter of a million dollars. So my question is, I ask friends and stuff, but what do I do from here to set myself up for success? Not right now, even just in the future, because we are going to have hurdles and we are going to have challenges. So that's my question is, how do I not blow this big lot of money and set us up for a good future?

Yeah. Man, you guys have been through hell. I'm sorry. Yeah. How long ago was the accident?

We're not even three months through. We're both in rehab and doing pretty good.

And you both lost a leg?

I'm afraid we did. We were going through a green light and somebody decided to turn left, and we were doing 55, and it took both of our legs.

You're on a motorcycle?

On a motorcycle, yes, sir. We're getting recovered, and all that recovery is covered.

Let me ask you this. The first thing that comes to mind is that it doesn't sound like you're getting enough.

Well, that's the thing. He was an underinsured motorist, so we got $50,000 each from his. Kind of an insult to lose in a leg. But luckily, I checked the full PIP, so all of our medical stuff is covered from my insurance, my car insurance. And then it maxed out at $250,000 each. And then the lawyers take their chunk, and we're left with what's left.

You're A lawyer is getting a chunk of your insurance?

Yeah, we got a lawyer to make sure we got everything right, and they take 30 %.

Of whatever insurance- Basically, they got nothing for you.

I mean, they got His underinsured motors, which is basic stuff, and they got yours, the coverage you already had. There was no big negotiation here. They just caused the insurance company to write a check they should have written anyway? Correct. This is not a good deal for you, okay? You're paying way much in attorneys' fees for them to do something that you probably could have done on your own. This is not an injury lawsuit here. This is just your insurance paying its claims.

It was an insult when we got it because we're- Well, it's not an insult.

It's all they had. The guy's broke. You can't get blood out of a rock. But it wasn't like a personal insult, but it's a sad small amount. Okay, well, at least I know how we got there. Now, back to your question. Okay, 350, mathematically, is not enough for you guys to not work the rest of your lives.

Correct.

Let's just pretend you invested it at 10% for easy numbers. That's $35,000 a year. That's not going to work out.

We made about 70 when we were working, and we get Eighty % pay for three years.

Okay, so that's going to be helpful while you rehab and retool for a new career.

Just before that, we need a new roof, which we couldn't really afford. So we refinance, we put all of our debt into the house. I know how you feel about that, but I was out of options. The house would have deteriorated too much. So we owe $150,000, and we have no other debt but utilities.

We've been trying- What I would do is to try to, during the time you're getting your 80% pay, to create a career for each of you, where the net is that you actually end up with your new careers making more than you used to make.

Okay, that's what we're thinking, too. We're factory worker.

If you get there, then you don't have need of this money for survival. Then we can use it in the ways that you would rather use it, which would be paying off the house and investing investing it?

That was my question, too.

But I'm not doing that until you got an income, dude.

Okay. All right. That's what I was wondering. Yeah.

So you've got it. What are you all going to do? You've already thought about this. What do you think you're going to do?

I'm not sure. So the bummer, too, was that my friend had a trash truck driving job for me, which would have been a substantial step up, and they match double-digit for your retirement permit, which we have none. And it would have been better pay. I got my permit, and then two weeks, I was going to start the classes. I had that job lined up, and then we got hit. I don't know. Once I get the prosthetic and I get better with it, maybe I could do something like that. But we're still talking manual labor with a leg that's not great.

I don't have any idea. I don't know. But wow, that's the stuff you're facing. You've got to solve for income. When you solve for income, then that frees up the money, and then you can decide what to do with it. It's pretty basic because you don't have a lot of options. You pay off the house, and I would sit down with a SmartVestor Pro and get this money invested and pretend like I don't have it, in other words. I don't have a house payment anymore. I don't have any debt anymore. I'm going to live on a budget, and I'm going to create a sustainable life with my income and never touch the rest of that So you would pay off the house and then with the rest of the money- Investing.

Investing and get somebody to help me because my friend was like, money market account.

No, don't listen to your broke friends about money, honey.

I know. Hey, I know. Right away, I was like, I don't know. I need somebody I think professional.

No. Just go to ramsey solutions. Com and click on SmartVestor Pro, and they can help him, Jord.

And then make sure you get an emergency fund before you invest that money. Set aside six months of expenses to cover you guys in case of emergencies before you use the rest of that money. But that'll set you up. You get that foundation right and get the income going. You've got a great quality of life.

The money will turn into a lot of money over time if it's invested and you keep your hands off of it because you've created a sustainable income with your new careers. Yeah. Hey, I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do, and it'll maybe help you on this journey of figuring out what your next new normal looks like. What a wild, horrible thing to go through. 55 miles an hour.

With no protection there on that motorcycle.

Yeah, that's just, wow, man, crazy.

But here's the news on the compound growth. Like you mentioned, you leave 150 grand sitting there for a couple of decades, it turns into a couple of million if you add nothing to it. That's the good news, is that this could add a nice cushion to their nest egg. Who knows what the rest of their life looks like with expenses and medical and how this affects other areas of their life.

Exactly. Well, great news. He's got 80% pay. That's pretty good workers comp right there, man, or whatever it was he's got. I guess disability income is probably what it is. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, he had checked the boxes on the insurance. Lawyer ought to be ashamed of himself taking a fee on that. Life is unpredictable. That's why I teach the importance of things like having an emergency fund, buying term life insurance, and Getting a will from my friends at Mama Bear Legal Farms. Because if you don't plan ahead for when you're gone, it can cause a big mess. And that's the last thing your family needs, especially when they're grieving your loss at the same time. But a will spells out exactly what you want to happen after you've passed away. No guesswork, no courtrooms, and no family fights. Just peace and clarity. It's your way of saying, I love you, and I took care of so you don't have to. And thanks to Mama Bear, getting your will done is fast, easy, and affordable. In just 20 minutes, you can give your family the peace of mind they'll need during one of the most challenging times of their lives.

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Katie is in Louisville, Kentucky. Hi, Katie. How are you?

Hi, I'm great. Long-time listener. First-time caller. I'm so excited.

Well, thank you. How can we help today?

Yes. Hi. I'm calling because I have a mother-in-law who has been scammed out of probably somewhere between $150,000 to $200,000. She She is a quarter mile from our house in a patio home, which she purchased from the sale of her home in North Carolina. That patio home is in my husband and I's name. And We're wondering if she should move in with us.

Why would she do that?

Well, she no longer can pay for the mortgage out of what she is currently getting from her- So she didn't pay for the home when she bought it.

She took out a mortgage when she bought it.

She took out a mortgage. The mortgage is in our name, my husband and I.

So she didn't have enough money from the sale in North Carolina to buy the house?

No. Well, she did. She stockpiled the rest of it in a savings account. And then when she had an online scammer tell her that he was going to come to the United States and marry her not once, but it happened in a way.

Oh, the romance scam.

Yes, the romance scam. That's exactly right. And so obviously, my heart bleeds for her because she's lonely. She lost her husband probably 11 years ago. My husband and I, when we first got married, he said, FYI, When my dad does, my mom's moving in with us. I said, That's great. I love your mom, plus she gives me diamonds.

Okay. If you sell the patio home and she moves in with you, then you've gotten your wish. What's the question?

Yes. The patio home, it was probably $230,000. However, my husband and my mother-in-law don't want that to happen. We are supporting my mother-in-law with not a lot, basically $50 to $100 a month to stay in her patio home, but we can't afford that either. My husband and I are both horse trainers. We got into a little bit of tax trouble after the sale of a horse a couple of years ago. Now we have a great accountant on board, and I see the light at the end of the tunnel. We could probably be debt-free- What is your household income? Of the patio home? We are averaging. I'm using the Dave Ramsey app, which I love. We're averaging about $7,200 a month.

You can afford $100. Pardon me? You can afford $100. You said you're giving her $100 a month to stay afloat, and I can't afford that. That's not true. You can't afford it. You have $7,200. $100 is not breaking you.

It's not breaking us, but we are by the end of every month.

You have other issues then. It's not your mother-in-law. You have $7,100 worth of other issues.

Yes, we do.

The other part is, if mother-in-law can't pay the mortgage, you're getting foreclosed on because it's in your name.

Yeah.

That is also correct.

Yeah. She's paying that with her Social Security, I assume.

She is paying that with her Social Security, and then on top of it, barely has enough to pay for the medication that she needs. Right.

So this is unsustainable for her to stay in this house.

Well, at $100 a month, it's sustainable is what she's saying. They're giving her $100 a month. That's making her budget balance, and that's what her husband and the mother-in-law want to do. She wants to sell the house and have her move in for $100. No, you don't have a math case to make this case. If you guys, as a family, want to do this to take care of her, and everyone involved thinks it's a great idea. It's not a problem for me. Sell the patio home and put the money in an investment, and you'll be fine from the equity in that thing. But the idea that $100 a month is not sustainable when you make $7,200 is not true. There's other things going on in your budget that may not be sustainable. If that's what they want to do, you can afford it.

Wouldn't be my first Well, I don't know.

If she wants to live there, doesn't want to live there, I don't want to force her to live there. So it's just- It sounds like she's more lonely than anything at this point.

Yeah. But she's a quarter mile away. She's not too far.

Austin's in Oklahoma. Hey, Austin, what's up?

Hi, Dave. So about three years ago, my wife and I, we bought our home, and then now my wife is looking at going and getting her doctorate degree. And so If we were to do that, we would have to move away for a little while, probably three, maybe four years at the max. And so my question to you is, would you suggest we sell our home and take that equity to pay off and not get any student loans Homes. Or would you suggest us just renting the home, taking on some loans or some debt for that student for the doctorate degree, and then eventually we'd like to come back? And so that's the main reason we would want to rent instead of just selling I don't know. What are your thoughts?

Why is she getting a doctorate degree?

So she can be a professor.

In what?

It's like a biblical, theological studies.

Does she have a career now?

She does.

What does she make in her career?

About $40,000.

Okay. So she could make $100 as a seminary professor?

Yeah, probably between 80 to 100.

Yeah, that's probably about right. I agree with you. That's the return on investment in the PhD. What's the PhD cost?

It's about 60 to 80,000.

Okay. She's going to send 60 to 80,000 to get a $40,000 raise. That's probably okay. I'd spend 60. I wouldn't spend 80. But yeah, And that's going to take how long?

I think the max is typically four years. I think it can be done in three at some schools, depending on which one.

Is she working while she- But also then she has to go somewhere where she can get that job after she completes it, and it probably won't be your hometown.

Yeah, we do have some connections in the hometown with a couple of schools, so there's a chance. Not super high.

But I mean, it's not a sure thing. Number one, I'm not going to tell you to borrow money for student loans, period, ever, under any circumstance. Number two, I'm not going to tell you to borrow money on student loans so that you can keep a rental property. So that just double down. So no, I'd sell the house for sure. Okay. If she wants this dream, and you guys are on this dream more than you want this house, then it sounds like you do, then the proper thing to do is use the house money to get the PhD and then use the PhD to get your next house.

Okay. Which we do have savings.

But you don't have enough to do this.

Everything else.

You don't have enough to do this because you said you were going to take out student loans.

But they cover about half of it. So they'll still be student loans.

No, don't do student loans. Pay cash for the PhD or don't do it.

What's your household income?

About $280,000?

Yeah. I mean, you could save up in a year and knock this out and cash flow it.

Here's an irony for you. You can't find anywhere in the Bible that God used debt to finance his plan on the Earth, not once in there. She's going to study biblical studies. No, don't be borrowing money to do this. No. It's too much irony here to chew on. Don't do it. No, no, don't do it. And don't go into debt for a PhD. Don't go into debt for a master's. Don't go into debt for a bachelor's. There's lots of ways to get your education out there today. It's ridiculous to do that. And then try to keep in mind that what you're looking for is a return on investment on this education. And the lower the investment, the better the return. So get the cheaper PhD because nobody's going to give a rip where you went to school.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds credit, Union studio. George Camel Ramsey, personality, number one best-selling author and co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. He's my co-host today. The phone number here is 828-825-5225. Julia is in Colorado. Hi, Julia. How are Hi.

How are you guys?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

Well, first of all, I love you guys. So happy to hear that. Well, thank you. I have been listening to you guys for the last eight months, me and my husband and I, and we've been working on getting through steps one and two. We just had a baby not that long ago in May, and I heard just through the great vine that my mother My daughter is going bankrupt. I think she already filed, actually. She has a parent plus loan from my first two years of college and has been just recently just started asking me to help pay for it, which She already agreed that I would pay for it. That was the goal. But I had no idea what we signed up for, and I don't know what it looks like with her filing bankruptcy.

The Parent Plus loan is not bankruptable. It It will depend on what type of bankruptcy she files as to whether it will affect the loan at all. There's two types of bankruptcy that might work. One would be Chapter 13 bankruptcy, which is a payment plan for five years. If she puts the parent plus loan in the Chapter 13 bankruptcy, which if she's doing one, she probably did, then they're going to be paying payments inside the bankruptcy on that loan through that five-year period of time. Okay? Oh, okay. It's a mess. If she files Chapter VII bankruptcy, which is what most people think of when you think of bankruptcy, which wipes the slate clean, the parent plus loan is not bankruptable, and it'll still be standing after the bankruptcy. It'll wipe off her credit card debt. It'll wipe off her medical debt. It will wipe off any unsecured debt, but it won't wipe off a student loan or an IRS debt. She still owes it. But the bottom line is you morally it because you promised to pay it, correct? I did. It's not either way, it's not going away. And so either way, you're going to get the opportunity to do what you said and pay the bill.

But you don't even know how much the stupid thing is.

I do, actually. They sent me a statement last year. I just had trouble getting in there because I thought I was cosigned on it. My name was still on it.

You're not on it. Not on apparent plus. You can't get in there. But what was the balance?

It was about 19,000.

Okay, good. And what's your household income?

A couple of hundred. So my husband and I, we make anywhere between 40 to 50K. We're working on growing our income right now. He just started a business, and That's gradually growing as time goes by.

And then I need- And how much debt do you have other than this 19,000 parent plus loan?

Without that, it would be about 30K. On what? Sixteen of it. Sixteen is on credit cards. He has a credit card. Then we have a car, which is only about 9,800 of it. Then the rest is other student loans because I went back into school thinking I can do it now that I was sober. Because I went through this whole time period where I was struggling in addiction, and I really got behind on finances. How long you been in a drive? It took me a long time to catch up. This is my fourth year.

Good for you. I'm proud of you. What were you on? What were you addicted to?

Mainly, so I started on psychedelics, and then I would use weed to make up for it. When I gave up the harder stuff.

And you've been dry for four years. Good for you, kiddo. And you got a baby and things are turning around. Your husband's got a new business. Good, good. Good for you. I'm glad. Yeah. Good.

Thank you. Are you working full-time right now?

So, yes, I am working full-time. I'm an independent contractor in the marketing industry. Ministry as a brand ambassador. I have busier seasons throughout the summer and spring into fall, and then winter is our slower season, so we like to make up for it with Instacart. And then we also do Ministry on the side, so we have some fundraising money that's coming in, and we're starting to learn how to fundraise a little better for that stuff.

Yeah, and he's got to get his business going because you all don't make any money.

No, we don't make a lot.

Well, you need to really get the career going, both the careers going, and get them going. Because basically what we're saying is you got $30,000 worth of debt plus 19 that you promised to pay of your mom's. Again, you're not legally obligated. So what I would do is deal with what's in your house right now. Let's get your income up and address these debts, smallest to largest. And once you're out of debt, then I would reach over and start taking care of the parent plus loan that you promised to. But it's not in your name. You are not legally liable. You're just morally liable because you did a handshake with your mom, said, I'll pay it.

Right. And I think the problem is, I explained that to her recently that we're trying to do a snowball. We're just getting our household in line and then paying off the way you guys teach. But we don't have the best relationship. It's already strained. And we don't talk. She hasn't even met her grandson yet because I don't feel like I can and let her into my life.

Well, that's okay. I mean, you still are going to go and pay the bill when you can pay the bill. You paying a bill one way or paying it another way is not going to fix your relationship with your mom.

And it's not going to fix her money problems either.

She's not paying it now. I mean, if you want to start paying the minimum payment on it as a part of your plan, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, attack the little one, and when it's gone, attack the next one. That's snowball process, right? If you want to pay this and put this in the debt, snowball that way. I don't have a problem with that. But prepaying that loan before you take care of these other things, no, I wouldn't. Regardless of if it upsets the person that's already upset. Oh, well.

Right.

What business does your husband do?

He does a lot of different things related to music. He rents equipment, and then he's a show promotion promoter, and he runs a record label. So there's a lot of different things going on in that area.

Which one is most lucrative?

The most lucrative would probably be his show promotion and planning. We're making up to 200 a show right now.

So he needs to do 10 shows a month to make two grand? About, yeah. Is he doing that?

No, but we're just getting started. He just got started with a couple of months ago.

I would make this a side hustle, and he should be working full-time doing something else, even if it's retail. Because you guys need consistent income right now. We can't hope for a show and hope for a brand ambassador gig. We need stability.

When Instagram is your fallback, it means you need new careers.

Right. The problem is he had a manager job last October, and there was a lot of politics with the regional manager, and just last minute lost his job when I was pregnant. He's been trying He doesn't get a lot of jobs that doesn't require 60, 70 hours as a manager, and they won't hire him unless he's full-time.

Yeah, he's got a baby. He needs to be working full-time.

He's in crippling debt, and his family needs him. He should be working 60 hours a week right now. We got a mess to clean up.

Yeah, great place to go when you're broke. To work.

The statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. One of my buddies said, Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. I immediately went and got term life insurance.

That's a gut punch.

You're telling me for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them, and they don't know what to do next.

Me too. It's terrifying. You're going to have a crisis here. You got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly right. These are the two options. Take care of your dadgum family, man.

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad, to just miss you.

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander. Com or call 800 356-4282. Our question of the day is brought to you by YreFi. You've tried budgeting, you've tried making minimum payments, but those defaulted private student loans are still weighing you down. Well, YreFi might be able to help. Learn more at yrefi. Com/ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y. Com/ramsey. Ramsey, not in all states.

Today's question comes from Kurt in South Carolina. I decided to dive into real estate investing a few years ago. I bought five single family homes, all 100% financed for a total of $825,000 and thought, Wow, I'm a genius. I also had $175,000 in personal mortgage and $40,000 in student loans. I had my wake-up call last week when I had to take my three-year-old with me to post an eviction notice on a tenant's door. I just didn't take into consideration the time and the emotional stress this sleep would require, not to mention the constant calls for repairs. The house's cash flow and the tenant's pay on time, but at this point, the return doesn't outweigh the hassle. I bring home 150K from my day job, and my wife, who's a stay-at-home mom, could work from home if needed. How do I get out of this mess? Man, this guy sounds like a young Dave Ramsey.

That's exactly the... Well, except I had a little better situation than he's got.

Yeah, he's 100% financed. He's got personal student loans, and he's going, How do I get out? Well, the good news with the house is you can sell them. That's maybe one way out of this mess.

George, that was insightful.

I'm Yoda of the finance world.

That's it. Just sell the house, dude. Why do you even need to ask the question?

He might take a loss on some of them. Who knows what the-Oh, well, you pay some stupid tax for doing stupid stuff.

Play stupid games, get stupid prizes. But yeah, I've done that, right? And you have, too. Everybody's done that. But yeah, you just woke up and went, I just did a bunch of $825,000 worth of stupid. The good news, I can probably get $800,000 worth out of it, and it'll only be $25,000 worth of stupid. I'm going to make $150, so I'll clean up the mess.

Yeah, the good news is his day job has a great income. Maybe they went up in value enough. He said a few years ago. So if this is 2022, we've seen some decent appreciation over the last few years.

Yeah, South Carolina. Maybe you can make a little money on it even and get out whole. That would be incredible.

Knock out your student loans in the process, get you an emergency fund, and restart from there and do it the right way, which is slow, which is let's get rid of the personal mortgage first, then save up and pay cash for any investment property.

Katie's in Utah. Hi, Katie. How are you?

Hey, Dave. I'm than I deserve. How are you?

Just the same. What's up?

I am the mother of eight children. We just had our eighth back in April, and I homeschool them. I stay home with them. My husband is a physician assistant. And a couple of years ago, we bought our first home, top of the market, top of interest rate. We were lured into it by the two-on-buy-down idea. Our mortgage hit its full scope in July, and I feel like I'm going crazy. So I'm wondering if you would advise us to actually sell our home.

How much is your house payment?

3900.

And what's your husband's take home pay?

He makes 120,000. And he works full-time at one clinic, and he picks up a couple extra shifts at another clinic, and he's also donating plasma every week, so we can pay for groceries.

Yeah, because your house payment's 50 % of your take home pay.

I know. I know.

It was before the 2: 1 started, even. I mean, it already was in the stupid zone as soon as you moved in. The 2: 1 didn't even buffer that.

We were living with my parents, and I was expecting my seventh child, and my husband was commuting an hour every day.

Yeah, but you went from homeless in your mother's basement to $4,000 a month. I know. This is not like a small step. This was a great leap. I I don't know. Yes, you got to sell your house, kid. You bought a house you can't afford.

Unless his income is about to double, which I don't think that's in the cards.

I know. It's not. The thing, too, is that he loves his job so much, and where we live is actually very very expensive. So even renting a three bedroom house would cost us around 3,000 a month where we live.

Well, you can't afford to live there then.

I've been telling him this for a long time. Back in May, when I had my four week old baby, I said, Let's just sell our house and live in a trailer. I'm willing to do anything, but it's hard for me to get him on board with making a name.

I'm not saying live in a trailer, but you go to extremes. You go to extremes. I do. I can. A $3,000 a month rent to a trailer in one sentence.

I know.

Why don't you just go do something reasonable, like 2,000 bucks a month, and live out far enough away that you can find that and let him go to work? Okay. Yeah, and let's get rid of this problem. But yeah, Then let's start talking. Maybe you can find something you could buy that fits in that. I don't care if you own or not. But the house payment needs to be more like a fourth of your take home pay, not half of your take-home pay, especially when you have eight little birds to feed.

I can't imagine eight kids in a trailer.

No, we're not doing a trailer, and we're not going back to mamas either. None of that's necessary. But we're a fur piece from there at four grand a month. Okay, this is a big, serious, nice house here. There's a lot of different things we can do. Millie is in Washington. Hi, Millie. How are you?

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

Well, I had to pay the stupid tax, and I did the wrong thing in the past, and I'm trying to do the right thing now, so I'm calling you and asking for advice. My question is, should I cash my index fund? And if I should, should I use it to pay towards student loans or for car repairs or for both?

What's wrong with your car?

One of the problems, they're not sure they can't figure it out. The other one is cooling system. He's replacing their estimate for that is 1900.

Whose estimate? The dealer?

No, the mechanic.

You have an independent mechanic that doesn't work at a dealership?

Correct. Good.

Okay. Is it just you? Are you single or you're married?

I am single with five children.

Okay. And what's your income, ma'am?

Up until this month is about 3,000, but I am increasing my hours, and I did just get a raise. I do have some health issues from keeping me from working too many hours or physical labor, but for the job I have- How old are the kiddos? I'm working what I can. My youngest is 12, and the oldest is 18. She said it off the college here this week.

Is there any child support or alimony?

No.

Wow.

In view of alimony, when we divorced, I did get a little bit extra on the house when we sold it.

And that money's in the index fund? How much is in your index fund?

Exactly. 7,800.

Not much. Okay. How much student loan debt do you have?

About 90,000.

Okay. Well, number one, you're out here fighting this by yourself, so you got to get the car to where it's reliable. Okay, period. More debt is not the answer to do all that, by the way. So yes, we have to use some of this to get the car reliable. And the rest of it, we're going to try to make sure that you continue to move up in your career and continue to raise your income because that's going to be the issue to address the 90,000. What did you get your degree in?

I got it in marriage and family therapy.

Okay. Undergrad or did you finish your master's?

My master's.

You're licensed?

Yes, sir.

Why are you not doing that?

I am doing that.

$3,000 a month?

Yes, because I was only working three days a week, but I just increased it to four days. And like I said, they just gave me a raise, so it will be going up. Yeah, because most- So part of the issue is that I work 50 miles from home. So it makes it a little bit of a juggle with the kids and making sure they're out the door in the morning and such.

Can you do any remotely part-time?

Not with this company.

Because if we can rearrange this situation a little bit, a typical marriage, licensed marriage, and family therapist will make 100 plus a year.

Yes, but I only am at an associate level right now. I'm not fully licensed.

Why?

Because I just graduated in 2023 and just got this license in 2024.

Oh, you got to get some hours in to move up. Okay. All right. Yeah, you're going to have... I mean, the income is going to be your overall answer, not a $7,800 index fund. But for now, The answer is, yes, fix the car. But long term, the answer is, let's rearrange our situation so we can get our income up. I think that's going to be really, really important in order to be able to create a sustainable situation.

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If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. There are new trainings every week this month, and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities, George or Rachel or Jade. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find thousands of dollars of margin using every dollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth. Plus, you can ask us any question during the live Q&A. Sign up for free at ramsey solutions. Com/webinar. Greg is in San Diego. Hi, Greg.

How are I'm doing well. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

So after listening to your show, I learned that I acknowledged that I made an impulsive decision. I attended a faith-based event in 2024, and the event pretty much motivated faith believers to invest in the real estate market and also the stock market. I paid for that training. I didn't have the money, but they told me that if I charged it on credit cards, that I would be able to make that money up during the zero interest period and pay off the charge and learn how to trade. Well, that period is gone and it didn't happen. So now I'm stuck, because now I have a $20,000 credit card debt from that. And I have I haven't made much money on the stock market. So now, talking to my wife, I'm trying to decide, okay, do I keep trying to invest and pay and make money so I can pay off this charge that I accepted, or should I just focus and go back to the snowball the credit card debt?

I'm sorry, Greg. You got scammed.

Yeah, after the fact that I realized it. And we were doing the snowball effect. We were on track. We were about 20K away from reaching zero.

But when I saw this, I said, Hey, we can do this, and I'll accept my leadership decision at my home.

I thought it sounded great, but it is what it is.

So I'll own it now. You were looking for You're looking for an easy button. Yeah. And there's no easy button. And this easy button is broken, and you've discovered that now. So I'm sorry, man. Yeah, you just got to pay your 20 grand off. And the last thing you do is keep investing the way they were teaching you because you're going to get in more trouble.

So we do have money on the side because I was going to invest.

So you're saying- Oh, you do. I'm focused more on paying off the debt. About 8,000 bucks. Yeah. You You're going to do what you're going to do. But if you ask us, we're going to tell you what we would have told you before you did all this. And that's, list your debt, smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. Take all your money that's not in retirement accounts and throw it at these debts in that order. And let's get them cleaned up because the shortest distance between where you are in wealth is not an easy button. Stock market course, it is your income. Getting that back and understanding that the borrower is slave to the lender is the only way to do it. There's nothing worse than a scam artist, except a scam artist that wraps himself in Jesus.

In charge of $20,000 for this quote, unquote training. Man, that's heartbreaking, Greg.

That just pisses me off. I get so mad. It's just so wrong. But when you fall for stuff like that, you need to do a CSI on your character and your soul and your spirit and say, Lord, what is in me that allowed me to believe that? There's some interesting Proverbs, he who is impulsive exalts folly. Impulsive exaltss folly. Folly is the verb of a fool in action. I have been a fool in action. I've been impulsive plenty of times in my life, but I exalt folly. I lift up a fool in action when I'm impulsive. Become a fool in action. The other one, Proverbs, says, The wise see trouble and seeks refuge. The simple continues on and is punished for it.

You just keep walking right off the cliff.

Yeah, just keep moving. I've done that. I've done that. I know better. I know this is bad. He even said it. He's like, I know down inside of me. I know this, and you walk right into it anyway.

That wisdom section of the brain just shuts down. You go, I can get rid of quick, though.

There's something about it, and I'm simple then. That's another word for fool, right? I've been a fool in every one of these cases. When you start studying fool and Proverbs, you start seeing yourself. It's painful. It's just like, I did that. Yeah, I did that one. I did that one, too. The number of times I've been a fool and it survived. Because a biblical fool is not a greeting. It's not like, Hey, fool. No, this is like an idiot. When I have done this, I was an idiot. It's like, God. Greg, I can relate, man. I can relate. I haven't done that one in a long, long time, but I did that one once myself. Not 20 grand, but you believe that there's an easy button, and they'll show you a course on how to get the easy button. A get-rich-quick scheme is what we would call it now, looking back at it, right? Yeah. You go, the wise see that. They seek refuge. They see danger, and they seek refuge. The simple continues on and is punished for it.

It's a healthy Skepticism with these Facebook ads, however he felt for it.

Yeah, here's a healthy skepticism on anything on social media, period. Is it even real nowadays? Is it AI? Oh, gosh. Did he really say that? I saw one the other day that I was promoting car loans.

Someone asked me. They said, Hey, I saw a video of you and Dave promoting these car loans. I said, Nope, that was a scam from AI and the devil himself.

If it's completely perpendicular to everything you know about us, come on. How dumb are you to believe that, that that's not AI? But yeah, there it is. And it's just, golly. We're there with you, brother, but I'm sorry you're having to clean up the mess. The good news is you'll probably never make that mistake again. That's the good news. Amy's with us. Amy's in Chicago. How are you, Amy?

Hi. Thanks, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. I've been listening to this show for about a year, and I'm almost true with the last bit of our debt. We've paid off $500,000 in medical school debt in a year. Yes, we got radical. We sold our house and used part of the equity to downsize and the rest to pay off the medical school debt.

Wow. So what's your household income now?

Well, my husband's a doctor, so we're doing pretty okay. We make about $25,000 a month.

Wow, good. I'm so glad. Congratulations. Yeah.

Thank you. But I'm in a weird situation with a car loan. I'm in outside sales, and so I drive for work, and I'm putting on easily 2,000 miles on my car a month. I had to buy the car for the job, and now I'm underwater. I'm underwater about $7,000. I've just been told that my company is going to be going to fleet vehicles in the next year. We have basically a year to three years to start participating in the fleet vehicles. They'll give me a car and they'll cover all the costs associated with it.

Love it. Yeah. That means between now and the time you get the fleet vehicle, you got to get this one sold and cover the 7,000, right?

Yeah.

When are you going to get the fleet vehicle?

It'll probably be sometime next year that they'll open it up for us I'll just start doing that. At that point, I'll have to have something to drive between now and then.

Yeah, we'll just keep driving it. What's it worth? Get it paid down. You got great income.

Yeah, that was my question. Do I keep driving this and just Just pay it down until I'm no longer underwater, or do I try and sell it, get something cheap?

Well, if you pay it off, you're going to get all the equity when you sell it.

The difference in now in six months doesn't matter. Okay. So just pay it off. Let's just get it paid off as soon as you can. Then you're sitting there with a paid four car, it's got a lot of miles, and you sell it when you get the fleet vehicle.

I mean, you can knock it out before the end of the year, right?

I think so. What's left on? It's 36,000.

Yeah, you can knock it out because now you got a $400,000 income, don't you?

You make $25,000 a month. If you throw $12,000.

Oh, he makes $25,000.

Yeah, you make how much?

I make a 165 base. He makes 165 base, and we both make commissions.

Okay. All right. Wow. Good for you all.

So, yeah, this thing's knocked out by Christmas, and you're not losing sleep over it, and then you'll sell it when you get the fleet vehicle, and whatever it's worth is what you get.

That makes you debt-free, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. Let's knock it and then be done with it. Man, wow. Good for you. Good for you.

Casey's in Ohio. Hi, Casey. How are you?

Hi, I'm doing great. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

So me and my husband are on Baby Step 2. I have a debt about 6,000, and including his, it will be a total of 78,419. 68, which I find very appalling.

And we are Stop a second. I didn't understand what you said. You said he had 78,000 on what?

No. I owe 6,000, and adding my husband's debt, it's going to total up to 78,000.

Okay, so your husband has $72,000 in debt and you have 6,000? Yes. His $72,000 is on what?

It's mainly on student loans.

What's your $6,000?

It's medical bill and credit card. I have $4,000 in medical bill.

How long have you all been married?

Five to a year, but we've been together for six years.

Okay. And what's your household income?

What I make as a nurse is about 90,000. My husband has his own insurance company, which is not doing well, and he makes about 30. He did get a new job right now, which Which he brings him 3,000 to 4,000 now monthly. Our main issue is mainly him disagreeing on me giving tights every month. And I do not like the fact that he has leased a Tesla and sold our car, which we only had two years and we could have paid it off. So I'm not sure how we can work together together to tackle this debt and have- When you all got married, did you not talk about doing life together? I didn't think. Before getting married, I was thinking about, My money and your money is yours. But I am watching your show. I've come up on your show probably a couple of months ago, and that's when I realized that, yeah.

So you want to get out of debt, and he doesn't really care? What's the status now?

Well, he does care, but he doesn't agree with the baby steps. I don't know, he doesn't want to get off his credit card. He thinks we need credit to get approved to buy a house, to get a car, and things like that. And in one of your videos- How old are you two? I watched- How old are you two? We're 33.

Wow, you sound like you're 20.

Yes, I'm looking for- He sounds like he's I want it.

He's so immature. Yeah. Wow. Okay.

So what's his plan to get out of this mess?

He just wants to pay off the smallest amount that doesn't have an interest. I mean, that does have an interest. He wants to start with that. But I know with the baby steps, you have to start with the smallest amount first, which I've been doing. I've been doing that myself, but he hasn't. I'm sorry, I'm just so overwhelmed. I've never been in this so much before. The most debt I've had was a 6,000.

So here's what you need to do, hon. You need to sit down with him tonight and say, I'm so scared, I can't breathe, and you are killing me. So I'm going to go see a marriage counselor because our marriage is in deep trouble, and I'd like for you to go with me. Okay? Okay. And you need to go see a marriage counselor. You don't need to be talking to two goobs on a podcast when your marriage is falling apart. You got to sit down with somebody that can actually help you and him grow up and walk through the process of learning to respect each other, combine- Communicate. But this guy does whatever he wants to do and then just comes home and tells you, at least a Tesla. I mean, that's a husband needs to be smacked. I can't help you with that because I can't reach him from here.

It's clear he doesn't respect your opinions on money, and he's not communicating.

He doesn't make any money, which is humorous.

You're making triple what he makes.

But he's got all these opinions. That's hilarious. Broke people with deep financial principles. But yeah, all that comes out in marriage counseling, but you're terrified, and your husband's causing it. So that tells me that we have marriage counseling issues, and you need to sit down with somebody. I'm sorry you're going through this, kiddo. All right, Eric is next. Eric's in Houston. Hi, Eric. How are you? Hey, Dave. How's it going, buddy? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Yeah, I just need some advice from Uncle Dave. I call you Michael because I've been listening to you for a little while now. So I just I need some advice. I'll give you the quickest, shortest story, a run down I can. A year ago, I was facing some legal troubles. I had to go to court, stuff like that. I needed a lawyer. So I went to my uncle. He was doing a little bit well off financially. So I taught him, if he can help me, find a lawyer. But he decided to take on everything himself. He paid for the lawyer. The lawyer wanted me to court. Fast track, you're up to today. I've come to find out from the news and everything that he gained all his money from illegal immigrants looking and seeking legalization, green card, stuff like that, to be able to live here in the US. He was defrauding them, telling them that he works for the law firm. He can help them expedite that situation.

Your uncle was doing this? Yes, sir. How much do you owe your uncle for the lawyer?

I owe him $10,000.

And what do you make?

Okay. But let me give you just a quick sidetrack to that. The money that he gave me, the money that he accumulated from all these people, it was about $1. 4 million. Fbi and everybody, they did a joint task force investigation. And where I'm at now, I'm trying to figure out, morally, should I pay him back? I would like to try to help off somebody.

I don't know that you can. Have they seized his bank accounts? I'm guessing he's going to jail for a long time.

Yeah, they seized his bank account.

He bought a couple of holidays. Do you have $10,000? No. Okay. Then it doesn't matter, does it?

Yeah. But The thing about it, Dave, is that he's been hounding me, and he's been- Hounding you for money you don't have. Exactly. He's been throwing my name under the rug to my whole family, making me out to be He's a bad person.

But the thing about it- We don't have to worry about what he thinks because he's a scam artist. He's going to jail, okay?

We're not going to have some moral competition.

Nobody's worried about his opinion of anything. He's a criminal. He's a criminal. Yeah. None of that matters. But what does matter is, regardless of how horrible person he is or what he said or did, he loans you $10,000 and you owe him $10,000. So someday, when you get some money and you get a job and all that, you probably ought to pay the man back what you owe him, regardless of, morally, regardless of what he has done. That's up to you, but you can do that. But that's your only option is either not pay him or pay him, but you don't an option today at all because you don't have the money. It's theory right now. He can call you, he can hound you, he can tell all the relatives that you're a bad guy while he's sitting in a jail cell because the FBI rated him. That's funny. He's telling people you're a bad guy. That's humorous, if you think about it. But yeah, I wouldn't worry about it, Eric. When you get some money together, then deal with the problem. When you get some money together, if you someday should pay the band back what you owe him, regardless of his character.

Because you paying him back is not about his character, it's about yours. And so I want you to pay him, but not today.

You don't have it today. It's living rent-free in your head until you do pay him. I can tell. It's weighing on you. You don't like what it's doing to your reputation.

So just do the right thing. I'm not paying him because of anything he says or does. And I'm not paying him because your mama calls because he called her. I'm not paying him for any of that. I'm just paying him because I owe him. That's simple. Nothing more, nothing less. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramsey solutions. Com/insurance. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studios. George Campbell, Ramsey, personality number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Brianna is with us in Maryland. Hi, Brianna. How are you?

Hi, Dave. I'm so glad to be here.

It's good to have you. How can we help?

Well, I'm feeling I'm overwhelmed. I recently signed up for the free version of the Every Dollar app. I did all of my budgeting. I'm still feeling underwater, and I can't find a second job. But I'm calling because I want to find out if the So my 100 % interest rate for the payday loan that I originally took out for 1,500 is considered actual debt. It's not on my credit report. I've already paid about 2,500 of it. When I I realized that I stopped answering their calls and ignoring them. So just not sure what to do.

Why are you ignoring them?

I really don't have the extra finance to pay them, and I figured it wasn't showing up on my credit report, so it wasn't necessarily hurting me. And I felt like they already got their money because the loan was for 1. 5 originally.

Well, it's debt. I mean, anyone The only thing for any reason is debt. And so whether it has shown up on your credit report or not isn't the issue. You've got clearly a bad cycle. I mean, there's a lot of problems that got you into that payday loan, payday lender, right? What caused this?

Yeah. Well, I do a lot of lending, I guess, to my family. And I'm actually currently trying to get out of our family savings club. We all put in 600 a month. And then when your month comes, you get the money. And then I recently got a car. It was 15,000, but I'm upside down. It's just $55,000 student loans. So I'm just trying to make it day by day. I have a clearer picture of my finances with the EveryDoular app, but I don't understand why it's so hard to find a second job right now.

What's your total debt?

I got $75,000.

And what What are you making right now?

I'm getting a student loans. 61,000 a year, about 3,800 net.

Okay. And your smallest debt is now what? Is it the payday loan?

No. A $900 buy now, pay later type thing.

What did we use that for?

I got a TV.

Okay. How long ago was that?

It was about two months ago, and I was paying the minimum.

When did How did you start the Every Dollar app?

I only started a few weeks ago. I just started listening.

Okay, good. All right. Have you stopped your 401k?

I did. I did stop that. It was only $900 in there anyway.

And you're I'm going to stop the family thing today. Just call the family and say, I'm out.

They're not going to take that well, but-I'm sorry.

Tough. I'm broke. I owe a payday lender 400% interest. I don't need a Family Savings Club.

You're taking out a 400% interest loan to put into the Family Savings Club. Do you understand how crazy that is?

Yeah. Yeah. That stops today. Just, Sorry, guys. I'm sorry. I've messed up my finances, and it's going to take me a little while to get them straightened out. I've got this payday lender. I've got to get off my back, and I'm sorry. So, yeah, I can't put anything else in. I can't participate in something that involves money right now. I'm also not playing poker with you next a week. We don't need any money. Then I don't know why. What do you do for a living?

I'm actually a secretary for the Defense counterintelligence Department. I really can't have my finances out of order, otherwise I don't want to lose my job. Yeah.

Your finances are out of order. If they did a security check on it, you're in trouble already.

Yeah, they did an audit.

You've really got to get this mess cleaned up or you will lose this job. You're right, eventually. Yeah, There's lots of things you can do part-time. I mean, you can clean houses, you can pet sit, you can do all kinds of stuff part-time. I would get with doing something starting yesterday immediately. I have six different things working my tail land off.

See if you can return that TV if you're in a 90 day window.

You can do some secretarial work.

You don't have time to watch TV. You got nine side jobs you're about to have. Just follow the debt snowball. It works. And get rid of this payday lender. I don't care what's on the credit report. You got to get this monkey off your back. Otherwise, it's going to be another fee, another rollover loan. That's how people get stuck in these cycles.

If it's been several months since you paid them, you may be able to call them and settle it with a lump sum, but you'd have to have the lump sum. Say, Look, I don't know what I owe you, but I've got $1,000. If you'll take that as settlement in full, we'll close this out. But you need the $1,000 in your hand to be able to have that discussion. That is involving extra work and extra income. Anything you can do to create some extra income that's moral and legal, you need to start doing it yesterday. Lisa is in Georgia. Hi, Lisa. How are you? I'm fine.

How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Good question. I've been married for 42 years, and then in the last few years, my husband's been diagnosed with mild to moderate dementia. With that, has come a lot of radical changes in his personality as far as our finances. The latest is we have a second home we have for sale, and now he wants to rent it out. I'm at a point in our lives where I feel like we need to sell it, take the equity, invest it. That's our retirement.

Is he aware that he has dementia?

He's aware, but strong denial.

Then he's not aware. He doesn't believe it. He doesn't believe he has.

He doesn't believe. He does not believe he has dementia. One of the things he wants to do in our discussions now with the sale of the house, he's decided that he wants to take 50% of the proceeds and spend it any way he wants to in his own private account.

The answer is no. You have dementia, and I'm not going to go along with anything you want to do. No.

That's the way I've been pushing back.

No, you have dementia. You are not of your right mind, and no, we are not going along with any plan you have. I'm here to take care of you. I have for 42 years. I'm going to with you in sickness and in health, and we're not doing anything you want to do with money. You have dementia.

How do I move forward to, do I need to do a court order that he can't? Because everybody else thinks there's nothing wrong with him. I see it- Wait a minute.

Everybody else. I thought you said the doctor had diagnosed him.

That's true.

Well, then everybody else doesn't think that. Just the doctor.

Just the doctor. He thinks there's his friends and his- Who gives a crap what his friends think? Yeah, exactly. So do I need to duke an attorney and do a court order so that he can't make these decisions? Because right now, if we're 50/50 on account, he can do whatever he wants. I don't know how to move forward.

Yeah, I think you have him declared incompetent in court. Okay. And your physician is going to have to go along with that because he's not of right mind. We have to protect him from himself.

Yeah, I don't know that he'd sign a power of attorney for you to have financial control.

No, he's not going to do that because he doesn't think he's got dementia.

Correct. So he's going to need to be forced into it.

Yeah. In order to take care of him, he's not of his right mind. That's sad. I'm so sorry because when people get early onset, they generally turn either really mean or really nice, and it sounds like he's gone the mean one. Wow, I'm sorry. It's going to be really combative. But yeah, what his friends think doesn't matter. I mean, that's irrelevant. What his mama thinks doesn't matter. I mean, what the doctor says he's got this and you've observed the pattern, then your job as his spouse is to take care of him in spite of him. Yeah, that's a court order.

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Ed is in Kentucky. Hi, Ed. How are you?

I am doing well. How about yourself?

Just the same, sir. What's up?

All right. Well, thank you all so much. My wife and I were really excited. We bought our house back in '08, and we have been throwing a lot of money to get it paid off, and we are on track to have our house paid by Thanksgiving of this year.

Way to go. Good for you.

Thank you. Took a lot of hard work. But we're really excited about what's coming up next, but also, that's a lot of unknown for us. And so we keep investing in our 401(k). I've actually upped my 401k contribution rate, and she's going to be doing the same. But just wanted to try to at least get an idea of what are some things, suggestions that you all would have for for us post having the house paid off, because after that, we will have no other debt.

Yeah, way to go. Well, maybe step seven, we just say build wealth and give. And so there's three buckets, and you need to be very intentional with the money that you will have, and you're going to have a lot of it now because no payments, right? Correct. There's three things we can do. We can have fun and enjoy the money, and you need to do some of that. You can invest some, and you need to do some of that, and you can be outrageously generous, and you need to do some of that. You're still going to look at the pile of money coming in every month, and you're still going to assign it to something that falls in one of those three buckets. You need to have a pretty good rhythm where you're touching those buckets, at least annually, but hopefully monthly.

Yeah, definitely. And definitely the fun part and the invest part and the generous part, that totally makes sense. And that's something that we really want We just want to also make sure by the time we retire that we can retire and have some peace of mind.

How old are you?

I'm 42.

And how much is in your 401(k)s now?

Retirement account. In my retirement account, I'm currently at 340,000.

You and your wife?

And my wife, she actually has a little bit more. She's actually We're at around 500,000.

Okay. She got 850,000 in retirement right now. What's the house worth?

The house is worth 175,000.

Okay. So you're millionaires? Cool. Out in your 40s. That's pretty neat. The 800,000, if you don't touch it, you said you're 40 what?

I'm 42.

You're 42. If it's invested in good mutual funds, when you're 49, it'll be 1. 6. And when you're 56, it'll be 3. 2. And when you're 63, it's going to be 6. 4. You're okay. You did it.

You're real far ahead on retirement. I wouldn't worry. Keep investing. Don't let the foot off the gas there. But also, figure out, Hey, do we want to upgrade a house? Could we pay cash for a different house five years from now? Start You're setting some goals in your spending, saving, and giving areas at least once a year, and then check in and do the monthly budget.

You've been so focused on this house. There's some stuff you need to do in the fun category. You need to upgrade her car. You need to go on a trip. You've been telling her for 20 years you were going to do. I don't know what it is, but there's some stuff you all need to do.

Renovate the kitchen.

Yeah, something like that. There's some things like that you need to allocate some money to. While you're doing some investing and while you're doing some increased and intentional generosity, You just keep all of those things moving and just make lists of things we want to do. Let's force rank them. What do we want to do first? What do we want to do second? What do we want to do third? Then you fund that with what used to be a house payment. You're going to be in great shape, man. I mean, you're really doing beautiful. I'm proud of you. Pretty stinking incredible. Cantrie is with us in Texas. Hi, Kentrie. How are you?

How are you, sir? I am doing good.

Good.

How can Yes, sir. I am currently joining the United States Army Special Forces, and if I pass, I will get a $34,000 sign-on bonus. I'm used to being broke, so I'm not sure exactly what to do with that, but there's a motorcycle that I want to get that is about $20,000. What do you think I should do with that bonus?

How old are you, sir?

I'm 20.

Thank you for serving your country. We appreciate you.

Yes, sir. Thank you.

Well, number one, if you invest in things that go down in value, you're going to be broke your whole life. Yes, sir. Motorcycles go down in value. I don't mind you getting a bike, but you don't need a $20,000 bike. What are they paying you? What are they going to be paying you? Not counting the signing bonus.

It's going to be about 2,500 a month. Good for you. But of course, I will be living on base, so I don't have to pay for living expenses. Yeah. Okay.

Well, you need to be very, very careful with what happens to that 2,500 a month, and you need to be very careful with what happens to 34,000. I would spend some of it on fun, but I wouldn't spend two-thirds of it on fun.

Yes, sir.

No, I wouldn't buy a $20,000 bike. You're 20 years old, you make $2,500 a month. You're brand new in the military. But if you want to get a $5,000 bike for fun, that'd probably be okay. Do you have a car?

Yes, sir. I have a '01 Silverado.

Is it paid for?

Yes, sir. Also, I do have a loan that I'm currently... It's a $4,000 loan. I've already paid about $1,400 of it off. Good. Okay. So I take that bonus.

Definitely wrap that up, too. Knock that out. Set you some money aside as an emergency fund, get you a toy, but a cheaper one. Okay? Yes, sir. And then let's start talking about investing and doing grown-up stuff with some of this money. A lot of the guys you're running around with aren't going to be doing that. Good, yes, sir. Okay, because we've worked with the military for 30 years, and when you step off the base, and most of the bases in the US, down each side of the road for the next two and a half miles is stupid. Every stupid thing a 20-year-old could possibly do is on each side of the road all the way down through there. It's like they set it up to suck all the money out of you guys. It's a shame, but it is. It's like stupid on parade right outside the base gates everywhere you go. You can really screw up here, man. Be grown up and not a little kid with the way you're looking at this stuff. Thank you for asking the question. It's a good, wise question.

Yeah. I mean, this 34 grand is going to disappear quick in a good way if you do the right things with it. You pay off this loan, that's 2,500 bucks. Maybe put 20 grand aside in your savings and spend five grand on a bike and fund a Roth IRA with the rest of it, it's gone. Then you can't do something stupid with it because it's gone.

Yeah. You're going to be able to do a lot of fun stuff with this over time. But yeah, Use this to set yourself up with a great foundation.

As a 20-year-old man, I wish I was in that shape at 20.

By the way, the $5,000 bike is probably a four-year-old version of your 20. That's how much it's going to go down in value. Get on Facebook marketplace. Maybe a five-year.

You'll find a 24-year-old who made that decision at 20 who's now trying to sell it. There you go.

He's probably in the military.

That could easily be the case. If you're on base and you jump on Facebook Look, all those people are probably in the military. That's how to find the deals right there.

Yeah, that could easily happen. No doubt about it. Well, everybody needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to figure out and find the pros who aren't just looking to make a buck. Let's get an agent who actually knows their stuff. With a Ramsey Trusted Insurance Pro, you never have to deal with a sleazy business or slimy salesperson because they're all interviewed. Our Ramsey Trusted people are vetted, they're coached to make sure they are market experts We don't deal with anyone who's going to slime you. It's pretty simple. They got your best interest at heart. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/ coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for and to connect with a Ramsey Trusted agent. Or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or on podcast. By the way, folks, if you are listening or watching the show, please click the Follow button, the share button. Share it with somebody. Let somebody know we're here. Of course, you can click the subscribe button. All of those things matter. And leaving that nice five-star review with glowing comments about George is always helpful.

And Dave's good looks. That helps, too.

That's what people get. I didn't ask him to lie. I just asked him to say good things. That's all. Just saying good things. That's all. Dave has a face for radio, but we love listening to it. It's all good. We can do that. I can handle that.

We've all done dumb things with money. I've done them with zeros on the end. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it. You got to have a plan. You got to be intentional, and you need to get a budget. You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went. Our budgeting app, EveryDollar, helps you do just that. It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan for every dollar you've got coming in and going out. Now is the best time to get started before the ridiculous holiday spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan. Don't let that happen. You're done making that mistake. Go download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today.

Leonel is with us on the stage right here, the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions.

Where do you live? I live in Mendefe, California. Cool. Welcome to Nashville. You're here to do a debt-free scream. How much have you paid off?

$75,117.

I love it. How long did that take you, sir? Twenty months. Good for you. And your range of income during that, two years? $78,000. I've included my bonus for my base pay, and around 96, nine months after that. Good for you. What do you do for a living? I'm a CPA. Good for you. Wow. Very cool. How old are you?

25.

What made you get in gear and say, I'm going to get rid of 75,000 20 months ago? I was actually given a book called Foundations and Personal Finance.

It was gifted to me in my last year of my MBA. And I started seeing, wow, that's a lot of debt.

That was more than I was expecting because I went straight in not realizing how much I borrowed. And I saw I was in a big hole.

So you said, if I follow your plan, be very aggressive towards the debt, I could pay it off within about, I believe you said, a range of 20 to 24 months. So I said, Can you not?

I'll do it. I'm in a bad hole. I'll do it.

You took Dave up on the challenge. I did. And he was right. Yeah, he was right. As per usual with Dave. I love that, man. Congrats. This was our curriculum, the workbook for the curriculum, Foundations and Personal Finance? It was a green book.

It was a thin little green book. Okay. Very cool. Went through that. Very cool. The 75,000 student loan debt? All student loans. Couldn't bank her up on it. Okay, good for you.

Did you attempt to? You sound like you couldn't.

Well, I learned in my CPA exams that student loans, you can't bankrupt.

Yeah. You're like, Well, I guess I got to claw this out myself. I took it out. I signed the dotted line. Let's knock this out. Oh, yeah.

Wow. What did you learn during the 20 months while you're working on this?

It's more behavioral than it is actually mathematical, because I would take a look at what you would talk about. I'm a CPA, so I would just check everything you say.

I say, Is this guy really right? You said through the snowball method, it's only around at most two months slower.

And when I looked at the avalanche method, it came around that much for me.

I'm like, Wow, this guy actually knows what he's talking about. I followed it, and It worked really, really well, and it made sense. Wow. How does it feel to be free? You know what? I have a lot of peace. Actually, it's pretty great because now I feel I can actually take risks I couldn't take before. What? Well, I was really taking a look at my course study work that I can be really aggressive in my investing now. So I can actually grow my wealth within reason to actually grow my wealth more. I was learning through education where they said the three biggest risks in stocks was overpaying, having to sell before you have to, and bankruptcy. And by being debt-free, I'm able to avoid overpaying by...

I can invest in mutual funds using dollar cost average, or I could do valuation with my background. Not having to sell before I want to is being debt-free.

That's the only thing that would really force me to sell.

You're not desperate.

You've reduced your risk, and therefore, you're less desperate to go do something stupid and miss out on the market returns. You're staying invested consistently.

Yes, sir. Way to go, man. If somebody's listening and they said, Okay, guy paid off 75,000 bucks in 20 months, how did he do that? What would you tell him the key is to getting out of debt? Well, for me, I was a college student, so I delayed my life heavily.

I moved back and home with my parents.

I didn't finance a car.

I didn't go and get a mortgage for a home. I lived humbly with my parents, and then I just saved as much as I could.

My goal was to only live on about 25 % of my take home pay, which I achieved, and I put 75 % of my take home pay towards my loans.

And then I had people who keep me accountable, such as my brother and my parents.

Wow. So living on less than you make. Oh, heads down. That was the key. It was just be super disciplined about that, and you'll be shocked at how quickly you can knock out the debt. Absolutely. Which makes the avalanche method obsolete because of how fast you're knocking this out. Yeah. And even as a math nerd, you're like, Yeah, you could, you might. But the people who actually become debt-free, it's behavior.

It's behavior.

Way to go, man. That's big. We're proud of you. You get the rest of your life now to build wealth, to give, to enjoy. So you went like one step backward going, Well, I'm missing out right now. There's probably some FOMO. But then you're catapulting forward exponentially while your friends are going, Dude, how are you investing that much? I don't have debt. That's incredible.

Well, good for you. Good for you, man. That's That's awesome. I'm proud of you. Very cool. Who was cheering you on as you went? Oh, definitely my brother, my father and my mother. And I could tell that I made them really proud because I did something that they haven't done. Changing your family tree. Now, the child debt, you can get out of their basement.

Have you moved out yet?

No. Actually, I'm glad I paid off my debt so quickly because I got laid off. So one month after paying off my debt, being aggressive, they said, Yep, we don't see you as being meeting our standards or valuable. We got to let you go. We're going to go with other people. But from there, it was just glad I was really aggressive.

And you're working again now?

It's only been about a month or so. Okay. So just been applying aggressively. And I'm not too worried because my credentials and background.

I'm willing to move if I have to.

Yeah, you're a sharp guy.

Good for you, man. Well done. Proud of you. You brought your brother to stand with you while you do the debt free scream. Bring him up and introduce him. Hi, this is my brother Danilo. He's following my footsteps. He's doing everything I'm doing but better. I love it. Way to go, Danilo. Very cool. All right, Leonel from California, 75,000 paid off in 20 months, making 78 to 96. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

3, 2, 1. I'm debt-free.

Yeah.

There we go.

Oh, my goodness. That was incredible. He gave it his all on that one. That was fun. Left it all on the dance floor, as they say. I wish I had that energy. I missed the 25-year-old energy. I'd probably hurt my back doing that now.

Yeah, well, I mean, you're staying up all night with New Mourns.

Yeah, different phase of life.

It affects your energy level, George. That's right. I'm just saying. What a great story. Well done, sir. Well done. Very, very proud of you. Good work. Jasmine's in Texas. Hi, Jasmine. How are you?

Hi, Dave.

I'm doing fine. Good. How can we help?

So my husband and I are on baby step two. We're newer to the Ramsey teaching method, and I was actually recently laid off as of yesterday. So it was a little bit of a shock to us.

You didn't have any idea it was coming?

We had some differences, and my boss said that I wasn't meeting the expectations that the company was wanting. So I thought I was fixing a lot of those issues. And then yesterday, they asked me for another meeting after having a meeting last week. And then they said, We're just going to have to let you go. So I thought that I had a little bit more time to save up. And it turns out I just had yesterday.

What did you make?

I made $45,000.

Doing what?

I was an admin assistant for one of the businesses local into the town that we live in.

Okay, cool. All right. And are they giving you severance package?

They are not.

Wow. Okay. How long did you work there?

About a year. Okay.

All right, cool. And what does your husband make?

He makes 65,000. Okay.

So you used to have a 110 You have a income, now you have a 65 income for this moment?

Yes.

Okay. Well, here's what we have found, and we faced your situation many, many, many times over 30 years. The first thing is it's really emotional and you're semi-angry and scared at the same time, right? Yeah. The second thing is, if you push through that and go out there right now You can go get another job fast, you'll probably get a better job than you had paying more than you had. If you wallow in this for about six weeks, you're going to end up probably getting a worse job than you had. You throw the shoulders back and you brush your teeth and you go to work again, fast. Hang on, we're going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, The Proximity Principle, which will help you get that next job quick, quick. You're better than they said you are, girl. Go get you something better.

Our scripture of the day, Philippians 2: 14 and 15, Do everything without grumbling or arguing so that you may become blameless and pure. Children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation. Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky. Maya Angelos said, If you're always trying to be normal, you will never know how amazing you can be. Dave's in Maryland. Hi, Dave. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. What's up?

Hi, Dave. How are you, sir?

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Well, first and foremost, I want to thank you for everything that you've taught me over the years. You helped me change my life financially. Never thought that I would be in the position that I am today with money, and it's because of everything I've learned Good for you.

Wow. Well, good for you, man. I'm proud of you.

Yeah, it's awesome. I've been struggling for a while now in my current relationship with my girlfriend. I'm just trying to figure out whether I should stay with her or not.

Most of it has to do with our differences financially. How old are you guys?

I'm 48, and she 44. We've been dating for about five years, and it's at the point to where this is either going to be it or it isn't.

Yeah, that's a long time. It's a long time, yeah. Time to pain or get off the ladder, right?

So what's the difference in financial values here?

Well, I'm a small business owner, and I think I do pretty well. I don't know, I'm more goal-oriented, money-driven, success-driven than she is. And she really doesn't have a whole lot financially or possession-wise and things like that. And Sometimes I just feel like I would rather date someone that has a solid career path, makes a good salary, someone that's more focused on their career and money. But on the other hand, we get along I mean, she's an amazing woman. She's the best girl that I've ever dated in my life.

So are you wanting someone who has the same level of drive you do?

Well, maybe not drive, but just someone that's closer to me financially.

So you feel like there's a disparity between how hard you've worked to build your wealth and success and how little she cares to do that for herself?

Yeah, something like that. And I guess it's also, I'm afraid, not afraid, but just being the breadwinner. And I don't know, it's a little difficult to explain, but I just I wish that she had more money and she had a better job. So that's pretty much- What is she making? She makes about 60 a year.

That's a solid income.

Well, see, that's the thing, because if we combined our finances, I think we would do okay. I make between 80 and 90 a year, and she makes about 60. So we would bring in around 140 combined. And we've been talking about moving in together and things like that. But the money thing just is what's been holding me back.

I don't see any crazy red flag so far. Is she in crippling debt that she refuses to get out of? She has spending problems?

No, she's very frugal. She's a single mom. She raised her son pretty much on her own with help both from her family, but she's a single mom. She's very frugal. She's independent. She has no debt. I mean, she might have a one or $2,000 credit card. She rents her house, and her car is paid for.

I mean, you guys are going to build wealth together, and you'll accumulate more assets, and you'll have a paid-for house together. And so I wouldn't judge this just based off of, Well, she's not coming to the table with enough assets for me to move forward. I would need a little more ammo that to end this relationship. And it's not like you make $400,000 and she makes $30,000. And so the disparity is not as big as I think you think it is. It feels more emotional that you're worried you'll resent her and not respect her going down the line.

Yeah, something like that. Also, I struggle a little bit because I grew up in poverty. I've had this inborn fear of poverty my entire life, and that's why I saved so much. I guess sometimes I think, what if the bottom fell out of my business and I lost my money? Could I count on her to support us? I know that doesn't really make sense, but sometimes that's how I think.

Well, I'm not hearing any huge fireworks going off in terms of some I'm not a bad warning here. This sounds like a lady who's rolled up her sleeves, raised a kid by herself, and has pulled off life pretty well. Maybe she's not quite kept up with you, but it's not like you make a million dollars a year and she makes 10 or something. I mean, this is not some huge disparity. It's fairly minor. I guess they're older. But here's the big question is not how much money she has or how much money she makes. That part, that shouldn't even really be in the discussion. What should be in the discussion is, do you respect her character, her work ethic? Do you respect her intellect and what she can add to the equation? If you don't respect someone, then it's very difficult to love them, and they go together. Long term, real lengthy 25, 35-year marriage, 50-year marriage love type stuff. If you think she's deficit the whole time, that's probably not going to end up being there. But it's not based on her income, and it's not based that. Actually, her story that you described to me, I think she's pretty incredible.

But you got to think that. It's not me. I'm not marrying her. I got pretty incredible already. I've already got that covered about four years ago. But that's what I'd be looking at. It's probably a good opportunity for some good pre-marriage counseling to sit down with a good marriage counselor and get this stuff out on the table. Put those fears out there. Kind of comb through it a little bit, that thing. The other thing that might help, too, you brought up your poverty past. Let me send you a copy of Rachel Cruz's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. It talks about your family of origin and how it affects your view on money, her family of origin, how it affects her view on money, even her story and how it affects her view on money, and how she got to where she is. You guys give you some jumping off points to understand each other a little bit better before you make the final decision on marriage or on breakup, either one. That's definitely where I would go with that. Hey, thanks for the call. We appreciate you joining us. Open phones here at 888-825-5 225.

George, one of the big things we get, and I think that know yourself, know your money book is helpful for that, is with couples that are dating, trying to figure out if they're a match. Money is It's a good thing for that, not because money is important, but because money reveals a lot about your character. It reveals a lot about your dreams. It reveals a lot about your fears. It reveals a lot. Jesus said, your treasure is where your heart is. And so how you handle money, the way you look at money, what you're trying to get from money, all say a lot about you. And so it's a great way to get to know someone in a relationship like that is to study their money habits. Because as Dr. John Deloney says, behavior is a language.

Yeah, and if the values are there, then you can survive it. You'll have a nerd and a free spirit, a spender and a saver. But if the values are there at a foothold and foundation, you can survive the relationship. That's an important thing to look into is, Hey, do I value living a debt-free life? If not, you're probably going to be broke for a long time.

That's a good point. Looking back on it, we didn't mean to do this. We weren't sophisticated enough to do it when we were dating and getting married. But Sharon and I accidentally got married with having two extremely different families, but both families put a heavy emphasis on hard work and work ethic. Work ethic.

Common sense.

Yeah. And so neither Aaron nor I have much use for somebody that won't work. Consequently, we team up on that a lot. Like Sheeney says, You need to go to work.

Dave does it.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the Books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.