Transcript of #2381 - Taylor Kitsch

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You know. 85. Yeah. Drop some headphones on the throne.

Damn.

Yeah, you have to. Well see if you ever gonna shoot something at 45, you really want to be comfortable at twice that. Okay, so I'll shoot 90. I'll shoot 100 yards. Yeah, yeah. Because that way when you get into 40, it seems normal.

Seems easy day. Yeah, yeah.

It's all just about like effect.

Would you take a shot at 85?

No. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no.

That's far.

You might take a follow up shot. Like, oh, the animals already gonna go down. Yeah, you can if you can. You should always get a second shot on them.

Yeah.

So I'll take a second shot at 85, but I would have.

You had one. And. And it just ran. Just gone.

Oh, yeah.

Like 200, 300 yards.

What do you mean?

Like if you shoot it and you know. Yeah. Hit it and it just goes into the bush and you got to track it. Fire.

Yeah. You can track them though.

Yeah. Just leaking all over the place.

Yeah. Blood trails.

Yeah.

Especially if use a large mechanical broadhead.

So I've shot one deer in my life and it was after loan and I was on the trail. Yeah. And I was with Latrell and a couple other seals on his ranch. And you know, you're surrounded by seals, so it's like he's like, let's get you one. I'm like, yeah, let's go. And so we're on the ranch. Have you been there?

No.

Oh, it's great. And I don't know how many acres, but he had used to have like giraffes on the ranch and shit. It was crazy. You would literally just be out there and there's a couple giraffes. And I think they're. They've. They're gone now. But we pull into this like opening and he's like, there's gonna be some deer on the right. Lo and behold, a couple deer. He's like, okay, take that one. Pull out the M4. We're pretty far, but not crazy. And I'm nervous, man. Like, of course I've trained with the M4 and for loan and all this stuff, but I've never like shot shot. And so I hit it and he's like, fucking great shot. Let's. Let's roll up, roll up. No deer. And you can hear it though. And it's like just losing his fucking mind.

Oh, no.

And I'M like, oh, fuck. And so the other seal, he's like, let's go. So we walk and walk and walk and finally get around this corner and. And we have to put him down with a pistol. And I was like, why'd you have.

To put him down with a pistol?

Just because we walked right up on it and it was just dying. Yeah. And so I was just like, okay, this is part of it.

Yeah.

And then we, you know, ate it and all that kind of stuff. But it was.

That's the good part.

Yeah, it really is. But that was my one experience. But I did. I did go with my bro, loves hunting, and we went out in Montana, and there's on. On a friend's ranch and into the backcountry, and he was Bo. And I love tracking animals for photography, so it's the same thing watching the wind getting up before light hits, just getting deep. You're way up there, too, calling all that kind of stuff. And it's just so fun. And once you get in tight, your adrenaline's just buzzing. And we had eyes on this, like, big boy. And so then I'm doing the. He's, like, working his way up the mountain, up this pass, and I'm doing the antlers against the tree, and then the antlers and getting it angry, getting it worked up, and it starts bugling even more. And you're like, I'm not even taking the shot. And I'm like, this is fucking legit. And he, like, he pulls his fucking mask down and he's, like, getting into it. I see him, like, army crawling up there and missed, but we had a blast. It's more of, like, a bonding experience, man, than anything for us.

But it's a very intense experience, especially.

It really is.

THEY SCREAM and truly the sound, like, gives you goosebumps.

It does.

Especially when you're close to them.

Yeah. And it just goes through your body. It shakes you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's nothing like elk.

I know, I know.

It's really fun.

Yeah.

Well, it takes a lot of work.

It is. You earn it.

Yeah.

It's a different hunt, right?

Yeah.

Just rifle. It's just rifle up there. And at least in that area, it's like, sometimes your. Your hunts under an hour. You know, with bo, you're in one. This is days, possibly. Oh, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Especially if you want to get within 50.

Yeah. And then that's the magic. Yes, yes, yes.

Yeah.

Throwing up the grass, checking it all the time. It's so fun.

You live in Montana.

Now I do, yeah.

How long you been out there?

Five. Just over five years now. That's awesome. What made you choose that, man? Flying into Austin, I was here 16 plus years, so it's just memory lane. It's crazy. Crazy. This is where it all started, man.

Really?

Yeah, like Friday Night Lights. We're like school for the deaf just down the street. Land in the airport. Dylan Field was just across the airport. So. So many memories of Pete and I. We were staying at the Four Seasons, shooting the pilot. Learned a box here at Richard Lord's. If you don't know this guy, he's fucking amazing.

Richard Lord?

Yeah, Richard Lord. There's a doc on him, actually. He's up. I don't even know if he's still around. He was pretty old when. When he taught me how to box, but Wicked dude just zenned out. He was probably in his mid-60s, so he'd be up there now. But yeah, Pete literally was like. Before we hit camera, it was like, hey, you want to go box? And I was like, all right. And I loved it. I loved it. And I still say Pete.

You mean Peter Bird? Yeah, he loves boxing.

Yeah.

His own gym.

Of course.

Louisiana. Of course.

I do not spar with him anymore. He is Dirty Pete is his fucking boxing name. I bet you didn't fucking tell you that, did he?

Why is it Dirty Pete?

Because he's earned that, man. He's so, you know, you'll do body shots only or stuff like that and spar. Keep each other honest.

Right.

Um. But fuck, you get them once. It's. There's no rules. There's no rules. And it's like you're on camera in like a week or something like that, try to give you a black eye, and then you like take it and you're kind of shocked at first. It just goes from like 2 to 11 so quick.

That's funny.

But, yeah, it's the best workout.

We have a gym connected here. So last time.

No way. Here?

Yeah, it's right next door. We have a.

No shit. Smart.

So we worked out together and cold plunged the whole deal.

Yeah, yeah.

He gets after it.

He does, he does. He pushes. I mean, even when we shot American Primeval, he was his little garage setup man. Cold plunge, steam room. Like, it's. He's got to have it. Yeah, he's got to have it. For that brain of his. Yeah, yeah.

American Primeval was fucking awesome, dude.

Thanks, man.

That show, so good. I started watching it with my wife, but she's like, nope, gotta Go. She can't handle.

It's a lot.

Things get intense. That's a fucking intent. But also probably super accurate.

Yes.

One of the most accurate representations of what life was probably like in the west back then.

Yeah. Yeah. I learned so much on that, man. I mean, living in Montana. I got to this cowgirl friend of mine who I met at that ranch, had been working with this shaman just outside of Livingston. And I was telling her, I'm playing a guy that kind of raised by Shoshone and all this. And, like, that was kind of where I hung my hat of like, if this guy lost his family at 6 or 7 and then adopted or sold to the Shoshone, this is who he is. He's more Shoshone than he is white. So I started working with this shaman, which was incredible, and then went down to the Shoshone reservation, Wind river, worked with the elders there. It's tough, man, because obviously going there, you're like. And they knew I was coming. But it's like you're talking to these elders, and it's like, we meet five minutes in, and I'm like, so what do you. What do you guys do when you bury your wife? And you're asking these heavy, heavy questions.

Cultural questions. Yes.

That is true meaning behind it all. So she took a long beat and. And she's like, I'll get back to you on that. I'll get back to you on that. And then I went into this other room at the school there, and this other elderly woman comes in a wheelchair, and she sits there and she's like, what do you want to know? And so we just sat there for hours. And she was incredibly transparent and just really open. And I would take all this and go to Pete and be like, listen, if we're going to. We got to honor these guys, so let's do it right. And he was all ears. And the Shoshone was very tough to learn.

When you say working with a shaman, like, what. What did you do?

Yeah. So we'll do like two hour sweats.

Like a sweat lodge?

Yeah, yeah.

How do they have that set up? Like a fire in the middle of it or something?

Yeah. So it's. Fire is always burning before you start the sweat. And then he'll grab river rocks from Yellowstone river, and then the fire's going. And he'll bring these rocks that are in the fire into the middle of the sweat lodge.

And.

And there's four doors to this one. And you'll talk. You'll fast. The day before and he'll put the river rocks in the middle and they're smoking hot, right? And then he brings river water from a spring or whatever. And then you have. You fast and then you have your intention ties. So you would sit down with them for an hour or two and talk about what you want out of this. Sometimes it's like, do I want to have a kid or a buddy of mine was using heroin for something. So I would bring him and have a sweat and just give him my energy in this sweat to help him or my dad passed or something or some. It can be light too. It doesn't have to be so heavy. But he's been amazing like before. Like I start a movie in a couple weeks and I'm just gonna go do a sweat and get ready for that. And I just. Whatever he's gonna. Energy he's gonna give me to go into this shoot. And then for the. For primeval, it was beautiful. Like, I wasn't a good rider. I'm still not on horses. And he gave me like my horse has a feather.

If you really watch, he's. I have four horses in it, but my first horse has a feather in him. And I wanted to do all these and honor the horses, which obviously the Shoshone do. So he just taught me a shit ton about just to honor that tribe and honor what they do and to be as authentic as possible. So that helped me root Isaac so much.

But yeah, that's such an intense character. I'd imagine you're playing a guy who's a white guy who's deeply ingrained with Native American life. And so it's like. It's very conflicted. There's a lot going on there. But you want to embody what this guy would be like.

Yeah, yeah. And you meet him when he's mourning, right. And he's lost his wife and his son and he married into the tribe. So the female chief, I married her daughter and had a son. And so when you meet Isaac, he's just in mourning and. And everything is full circle. Everything is circular with them. So the only way he could reunite with his family is to. Is to die honorably. So that influences the way I fight. So the way Isaac fights is all in wild. Wild, like biting. I had. I just got chills thinking about this. There's a fight, I think in episode two, which was fucking insane. And we didn't rehearse. This is very berg. And we have these. One guy's black feet. Unbelievable guy. And I kept using him. Cause he's a great stuntman. And so Pete's like, you guys are gonna fucking roll down this hill, and I want you to fight your way to the river, and then we'll cut. And then I want you to fight in the river. This is, like, maybe 28 degrees in that river. The safety guy is like, whoa, whoa, this is not cool. And this is all, like, on the go.

So JJ dashing on my double is like, all in. He loves this. This is near the end of the shoot, too, so. And everyone's game. And that fight was just so fucking intense.

So is it choreographed at all?

Nothing.

Nothing.

Literally nothing.

So how do you know, like, when he's going to punch or you're going to.

Yeah, so during, if it's you and me, it's like, you will walk the area, make sure there's no sticks or whatever, that we're gonna impale us. And during the fight, I'll be like, okay, I'm gonna flip you.

Oh, wow.

And then it's like, okay, I'm gonna get on top.

And then you have to say it.

Yeah. And then Pete will be yelling behind camera to be like, okay, now work your way on top of them. And then we'll fight. Work our way. Roll. Work our way. And then he's like, okay, find a rock. Kill him.

Jesus Christ.

And then that war cry, which I'm so proud of. I worked on that forever, but. And I had talked to Pete about it for, you know, months before, but we're just rolling so quick. And I told our A camera Brett to get in tight. I mean, any shot with Pete is fucking tight, which I love. And I'm like, b. I'm gonna. I'm gonna do this war cry. So don't go down to him or. And he's like, gotcha. And so when I did it, Pete finally called cut. And he goes, what the fuck? I was not fucking ready for that. And it's those moments, though, that. That he allows you to just go, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's such a smart guy.

He is, man. When he's dialed, he's like, lone. He was just so present and early, and he just. I mean, we're surrounded by seals, as you know, every take. And I don't think you could do what we did to. In prep of just like, no producers, no Pete, no nothing. It's just every morning, 7am, 8am, we're up on the mountain with seals with Ray Mendoza and amazing guys. And we. First week is like, first day, man. I'm Canadian, so I haven't shot a gun in my life.

The first time you ever shot a gun was a lone survivor.

Well, yes.

That's hilarious.

So first Chris Karachi, who's a legend, a man's man. And he, I think he was like one of the. On the first team SEAL team units and, and the deepest voice you've ever heard in your life. And like a fucking man. And he took me under his wing. And so our first day was live fire. And Karachi took me aside, he's like, hey, it's you and me. And I'm like, let's go. And I'm like, as fit as I ever have been. I was running Town Lake, doing the Murph every fucking three times a week with weighted vests. And just at Lake Travis High School there doing pull ups. And it was unbelievable fun training for that. And first day was live fire. And that gets you, right, that you do not fuck around. And they make sure of it. And then I haven't. I hadn't met Marcus yet. And Foster had drove down, I think from Texas to New Mexico with, with Latrell. I was pretty jealous of that. It's like, ah, you got to spend some real time with Marcus. And I was playing Mike, obviously, and. And who is Marcus best friend. And so we're on this fucking range doing live fire, like upside down reloads, combat reloads, jamming blindfold.

It was just. It was full on. And Emil's actually a great shot. Marcus comes, everything goes full stop. And right when he's coming, there's a PA on the other side and she's bringing fucking banana shakes out, which is not a good look for these actors. And Marcus looks at these shakes and he looks at the actors and he's like, what the fuck is happening? You guys don't get shakes in between Viking. And one of the actors just shamelessly goes up and grabs one of these banana shakes. And he's just talking to Marcus, meeting him for the first time. I'm like, you might want to put that down. Like, wait till he fucking leave before, but. And then. It's just a beautiful experience, man. The second week of training, we were doing simunitions. Have you done that?

No.

Oh, you would love it. So this will break skin. And they hurt. It's like a hard plastic, paint tipped. And they fly like that, right?

They arc. Yeah, because they don't go as fast.

Right. And so we have Sims now. And Mike would. My guy decides if we push left, push right. If we engage. Get the out of here. Let's buy ourselves some time. Whatever. I gotta make these calls. And so the seals are in tally gear, and they're like, go up the mountain. Taliban gear. They're all dressed in tally gear. So we meet up at the bottom of this fucking mountain, and they're all in Taliban gear. And you're like, oh, God, we're so fucked. So they're like, give us 10 minutes. And when you get ambushed, we're gonna watch and we're gonna engage, and we're gonna see what you do, see what you've learned the last week. And you're like, all right, let's go. So it happens. And you're just walking, right? Just like we are in the film. You're just walking and waiting to get ambushed. You know, shit's about to hit. And so they hit, and you hit the ground right away to figure out where the bullets are coming. And. And you can hear them, which really sets you straight. And so I'm looking over at Emile, and I'm like, fucking 12 o'. Clock. They're just straight up in these trees.

I'm like, 12 o'. Clock. Fucking push, right? We gotta get the. Because we're in this open field. I just got chills. We're in this open field, and I'm like, get the fucking cover, dude. We gotta fucking fight our way to cover. And Emil's like, taking his time, and he's like, bro. Ah, fuck. All right. It's fucking intense. And I'm like, push, right? I got Foster behind me, who's, like, so in it. He's crawling through cactus and, like, bleeding, and I'm on the ground crawling, screaming at a meal. Marcus comes out full. We got hammered. I literally don't think we got through a mag, like. And Marcus comes out, and we're not laughing, but it's too light. Like, we're taking it too lightly. And I'm like, emil, you got to push, man. If I'm pushing. If I'm telling you. So Marcus comes in and he's like, full stop. And he goes. I thought he was going to rip Emil. And he comes over to me and he's like, is this funny? And I'm like, no, sir. And he's like, do you understand the stakes of this? Like, every one of you are fucking dead. You're all dead.

And so he just rips me. He's like, it's your fault. This guy doesn't want to fucking move. Make a move, like, you're dead. Do you understand that? And I was just, like. Just leveled Right. And it's a beautiful learning curve for me. And we got better. But I mean, anytime. There's one time. I won't kill you with these stories, but one time I was like, proud of myself. Like, we got in a ditch, we. It was too much simunition. Same thing. And we got in a ditch and we're all here and I'm looking down range like, like fucking. We're in one. We're still in a fight. And then, no joke, Mark Simos, the sniper seal, grabs my fucking shoulder and he's like, boom. And I'm like, where the fuck did you come from? Like, that's how good these motherfuckers are, man. So it was like, it was just an amazing experience when you train for something like that.

Like, how much time is spent, like when you know you got the role.

Yeah.

And you know you're going to feel like, how much time do you give yourself to prepare for something like that?

Longer. I love prep, so. Yeah, I do. Yeah.

Why do you love that?

The more time I can root myself into this guy, especially when the stakes are so high, like Murph. I mean, physically was. I did this little comedy in Canada and if you watch this movie and I was training for loan during this movie, so it's called Skirwink Trail in Newfoundland. Beautiful fucking trail. And it's me, my best friend of 30 years and my assistant who is a great guy. And we're training for loan, getting ready, doing like 50 pound runs, weighted vests, all this kind of skirt, wing trail. So if you watch this movie, like at the beginning to the end, my body goes from like this to just fucking stacked in this movie. And. And so there's that. But obviously 90% of this is mental, right? The seals. And so I just love that. I love the prep. I love that pressure. Pete did a beautiful thing. Bring in. 19 guys died on the op in the rescue mission. So it was like he brought all the families. I think it was a week before we hit camera. And man, you know, I'm going. It's. I'm in the elevator at the Hyatt in Santa Fe or New or Albuquerque, and I'm nervous.

Like throw up nervous because I'm meeting Dan Murphy now and I'm like, did I do enough? Am I really ready? Am I worthy of this? And then we all have that voice in our head that's like, you're a pile of. You didn't do enough. You're not ready. And that's why I prep so much, because it Eliminate. It's a fight, right? UFC or anything. These guys, you prep to eliminate that self doubt so you can be like, I'm ready for you, you know, so it's the same mentality. And so that was my first words to Dan were like, I'm going to. Everything I have into this, I'm going to do it as authentically as I know how. And he was just so gracious with me, gave Mike's father firefighter patch, and just told me some amazing stories. And I'm super close with the Murphy family still. But I love prep, man. I. I think it's. You gotta have it, especially with Pete's process. Like, if you're. He. He's so off the cuff sometimes, and if it's an idea he has on the day, which he really leans into his gut instinct, and obviously that's guided him pretty beautifully.

But you just got to be ready for anything. And if you don't prep, you're not rooted. You're not ready for anything, you know, so that one was a special one. Yeah.

Do you. What? When you get into a character, like. Like, if you're doing Lone Survivor, do you try to stay in that character all day long? Like, do you try. Do you break for lunch and just be yourself?

I try for sure.

But you're still trying to stay in the character.

No, I try and be. I try and be you in the moment at lunch. And not. Even though it's kind of weird, though. It is weird because you're on location. Yeah. On top of the mountain. You're taking the ski lift up there.

And it's so important to be this guy.

Yeah, yeah. And then you're having lunch with the Taliban guys, you know, and they're coming, and they're like, hey, man, we're big fans.

Oh, God.

And you're like, this is weird.

Yeah. Supposed to be shooting at each other in 20 minutes.

I'm about to fucking blow your head off, man. And so, I mean, Wahlberg's quite light in between, so that can be infectious in a good way. Ben is very, like, He's. He carries that weight in a beautiful way. That's why he's so good. Emil's quite light, but, yeah, there's definitely a tone. Right. Especially when you're surrounded by the seals. It's such a quick reminder of what you're doing or serving. But, yeah, you're up on that mountain having a sandwich, helping camera crew move their shit, and then lunch is always quick, so you're right back into it, and it Depends on the day. Like, if. I know, like, the climb up to Murph's death was. You're just carrying more weight that day. You just cannot fuck around. You better get that fucking right, right? And I remember being Emil comes up to me and he's like, hey, if we get off tonight, I'll go full circle with this. If we get off tonight, you want to go see Eddie Vedder? I'm like, fuck, yeah. I love me some Vedder. And that was in Albuquerque. And so we go to Vedder, meet him, Vedder calls him up, sings a couple songs to him.

It was unbelievable night. And Pete, the next day, comes up to me, and we're back up in the mountain doing some. The fall off the. The cliff. We're doing that the next day. And Pete's like, hey, your destiny. I want to talk about it. And I'm like, all day. What do you. What do you want to know? I got some thoughts on it. And, you know, I talked to Marcus in the hotel, and he won't. He remembers one specific thing he'd like me to do. And so Murph brought. Was pushing himself up with his rifle, climbing up this rock. So I'm like, that's really all I want to make sure for Marcus's sake, that I get that in. And he's like, yeah, yeah, we're going to shoot this in a parking lot just outside on. Off the highway in Albuquerque. And I'm like, yeah, right? And he's like, no, no. I want to control the light and have a beautiful landscape behind Murph. And I'm like, Pete, you. You're killing me. We're gonna do this in a parking lot. And so it was my last day as Murph. And I love music. I'll always have a playlist for whatever character.

And explosions in the sky. Who's awesome? Who was at the time, Austin bass. Great guys. And Pete uses them all the time, and they're just acoustic, no lyrics, which is. They're fucking amazing. And so there's one song that has a heartbeat in it, and that was my song from Murph. And it slows down in it. And so I go, you know, I. Prepping in the. In the trailer. I walk down through this fucking parking lot and I'm like, oh, dude, I'm not in it. I'm not ready for this. And then I'm getting mad at Pete for putting me in a parking lot to do this. I'm looking at Sandia Hotel getting ready to go like this most Epic death on. You know, it doesn't get more epic than that guy really put in the tunes. And they built this big stage that was like 4ft high and the rocks. And then surrounded it by green screen and cameras on the Phantom camera, which is that uber slow motion. That's where you see the. The spit coming out of Murph's mouth and all this. And. And I just broke down, like, just. I puddled myself right before.

It was just like months and months and months of thinking about it and. And prepping and putting so much pressure. And then I had explosions in my head. And I was like, God damn. This is like. You're overwhelmed with emotion. And Pete comes up and he's like, get it out. And so I took five minutes. Camera crew's waiting. We did, like. I told Pete, I want that rifle to him to climb up with the. The rifle. And I think we did three takes. And then the camera crew. Jacques was a. He's a DP. He DP'd American primeval, but he was a camera op on. On loan. And he was working that slow mo camera. And he just goes to Pete, he's like, we've got it. We've got it.

Was it weird watching on film, knowing that you shot it in a parking lot, like, trying to.

This is the first time I told this story. Very much like we would go. We went. And the first time I saw this film, man, was in. I think it wasn't Redskins, it was Denver, the Broncos. We go and show this to the Broncos. And Robert Griffin III was the quarterback, I think. Yeah, he was there. And I was with Ben Foster, and Ben had seen it, and I was. I watched it the first time with the Denver Broncos sitting in this theater, and I was a mess. A mess. Yeah. It's just the pressure, right? I think.

Yeah.

But I love it.

Do it honor.

Yeah, truly. And then my first email was to Dan, his dad, and he thanked me, and that's all that really Fuck. And Marcus. But, yeah, they thanked me, and that was really all I need.

That's got to be a very intense kind of a role because you're playing a real human being whose family's still alive.

Maureen, Johnny, Dan, the whole family. And there's a destroyer. Fucking beach male UPA or not ups, but like a fucking stamp or whatever named after him. There's fucking. It's insane. There's all these huge honorary plaques and statues and all this kind of stuff. So if you let it, like, overwhelm you, it definitely can. Yeah, but it's been. I mean, that's where all this. My love for these guys is. Is really stemmed from that, you know, that's where it's like. I played seals a lot, and it's. It's. I'm never raised military or my grandfather served, but it was. It's an infectious group, man. It's like a brotherhood that's so real.

Exceptional humans, truly.

Truly. And people don't understand. These guys are the best fucking problem solvers on the planet. They're doctors, they're lawyers, they're fucking smart. And so, I don't know, I've just been embedded and I think once you're in with these guys, you know, you're, You're. You don't take it for granted. It's like, I've made calls to a buddy of mine that one of the most decorated seals alive. And he trained me for loan. Ray Mendoza. He just came out with Warfare, that movie. That's his best friend, his story and. Unbelievable guy. But I'll call Ray. And Ray was doing second unit on. On Terminal as Dark Wolf. And he's like a brother to me. And no joke, you're like, hey, man, I need a favor. And he's like, he'll fucking bury someone for you, this guy. Like, yeah, what do you. What do you need? What. What is it? And it's like. It's just that whole brotherhood that it's like, unquestionably, undeniably loyal.

Yeah.

And like, Marcus, like. I mean, we're chatting a lot lately, just because I'm shooting in Huntsville in a couple weeks and he's not far, but like, my. My sister. I took some time off to help my sister because she was using drugs and. And I just needed somewhere to go. Just. I can't be in Austin. I tried la. She's still using, she's still relapsing. I. Marcus, call Marcus. I'm like, let's. I. This is what's going on. He's like, bring her here. Bring her to the ranch. There's no fentanyl, there's no heroin, there's no meth on this ranch, man. Bring her here. And so I. She's not using at the ranch. So we went to the ranch and 10 days, I know she's gonna be clean because there's just. All we're doing is driving around looking for hogs or, like, hanging out, fishing, whatever it is. But he's just a beautiful guy, man. And where he is now is just. He's lighter on his feet. It's so beautiful to see. He was hurting, on loan, going through a lot of surgery still all this stuff. So they're just so loyal and just great guys.

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Awesome.

Huge.

Awesome.

It's. It's so remarkable how effective it is.

Yeah.

And how many people it's completely saved their life and changed their life.

Yeah.

You know, and I was just thinking about that for your sister, you know.

Yeah. She's clean 10 years now. Just under 10. Yeah.

Amazing.

Yeah. Thanks. She's a nurse now, which is incredible. Yeah, she's. It's really kind of like that's where that non profit comes from. I just started it called Howler's Ridge and I didn't even know like when she got clean, like there's some crazy stories I can tell you, but she's. She got clean and she hit me up. And she was at a sober escape with all the girls she got clean with. And I'm like, what is that? And it's basically a reunion with all the people that you went through your sober living or whatnot. The last place she got clean was she was supposed to be there 90 days. She was there nine months.

Whoa.

Yeah, that's what I said. And so she was at this sober escape. And so Howlers Ridge is basically a place. I think we all know an addict if we're not ourselves, and we're gonna help vets as well. But it's the sober side of addiction, so it's a place anytime you're using. At least through my experience, watching my sister die a couple times, get narcanned a couple times. I mean, I've seen her detox on my kitchen floor, which is the worst sight of anybody, to watch someone in so much pain. But this. This spot is for her, you know, where. Where it all started. And this is, I think, anytime you're using. Right. We're all habitual humans. You work out six, seven times a week. You need that for your brain. So do I. And once you get in that habit, I change. If I don't work out in three, four days, I'm a. And I get depressed.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like, I get anxious. Yeah, very.

Yep.

And. And I get. And I beat the. Out of myself.

Right. Mentally.

Yeah.

I feel terrible. Yeah. Yeah.

So we all create this environment, whether it's good or bad.

Yeah.

And I think with my sis, I just didn't have anywhere to take her, and I needed to pull her out because there was a time I. She relapsed like, four or five times in la, and I was just finishing True Detective when I got her. And, I mean, there's stories, but, like, it's pretty fucked up, that whole system, because you have someone that's dying, right. It's someone you raised or your brother, fucking best friend, whatever. And I bring her to this. Well, first she had to detox, which is an incredible story. My mom calls me and she's like, she's been using for this long, and I go full hero mode. I didn't even know what fentanyl was, really. Yeah, I didn't. This is right after True Detective. I really wasn't exposed to it. I knew heroin, of course.

So what is this, like, 12, 13 years ago?

Yeah, right in there. Whenever. The end of.

You didn't know what Fentanyl?

No.

Wow.

I knew, I knew like with the seals they had fentanyl patches for the pain. And then of course, like. But that's really all I if that. Like, obviously I educated myself on it after. And it's 20 to 25 times worse than heroin. It's a deathbed drug, put you to sleep. And so I got this call and I'm like, I'll get her sober in two weeks, bring her down like hero mode. And she comes and I had no idea what was going. And she had used right before she flew and so she was in withdrawal. Oh, God is right, man. And your muscle contractions are so bad that I had this little one bedroom apartment in Marina del Rey, 15, like literally a hallway from here, about this long actually. And it's late and she's just pacing because she can't sit still because the muscle contractions are so bad. And I'm like, shells, just take, go to bed, take my bed and just try and sleep. She's like, no, no, no, no, you don't understand, I have to move. And so she tried sleeping, going, laying down. Muscle contractions are so bad. She fell off the bed.

And I'm like, okay, let's go for a walk. And the beauty of our relationship and what I think was a huge factor in getting her clean was the transparency. Like, you gotta fucking be real with me. Tell me when you used, tell me how often, like everything she did, which is so tough to hear. And so we ended up walking down Abbot Kinney at three in the morning and no one's obviously out there and we just did this crazy walk and talk and I'll never forget it and it's just heartbreaking. And I get her and I call. I don't even know she needs to detox. So I call the hospital, Marina del Rey, and they're like, no, we don't take anybody that's using right now. You, they have to be detoxed and we may be able to help them after. So I'm like, okay, what the fuck is okay? We got, got a detox. And so I call this place and they're like an hour away. And she's like, I have a bed for her and bring her at 6am I got this little wrangler, a two door wrangler, and she's in the back seat, my mom in the front and she's like almost kicking the glass out because the muscle contractions of my jeep.

And I was like, holy, like such a wake up call that I had no idea it was this bad, so reality's kind of setting in. And she kept asking for methadone. I want methadone. Because she had detoxed before in methadone. And. And so I go to this house, and I knock on the door, and she's in the back seat. She's got her little backpack, and it's this woman, like, Butchy in, like, presents. She opens the door, she's like, just a matter of fact, where's your sis? And I'm like, oh. She's grabbing her bag. She's like, well, bring her here. I'm like, okay, Shells, let's go. She comes and Shells is like, I need. Doesn't say hi, nothing. She's like, I need methadone. And she goes, well, when did you use? Blah, blah, blah, and all this? And she tells her, and she's like, oh, you haven't even bottomed out yet. We don't treat drugs with drugs here, honey. You're gonna. You're gonna have some Gatorade and some topical muscle relaxer, and you're gonna sweat this out. And it's funny now, but Shelby goes to her knees, and she's like, I need methadone. She goes, no, no, no.

What did I just say? And she's like, you get in Gatorade, muscle relaxer, and you're going to watch some movies and you can smoke, no phone. She was incredible. Four and a half days later, she called me and she's like, your sister's good. Bring her to a sober living just by Venice high. And it's 30,000. Like, when someone's almost ready to go, you're, I'll do anything. Right? And they know this. And so it's 30,000 for the month, and it's sober living. You'll have one session, which isn't enough because she has some trauma and with a psych. And I was like, one in 30 days. One every week.

Oh.

And I was like, we need a lot more than one a week. And so I draw. And my sister was a runner. And so do you sign this fucking contract? And it's like, if she runs, if she leaves, if she does this, this, this and that, you. She's out. We kick her out, and we keep your money two hours in. Gone. I get a call. Yeah, I get a call from this L. A number. And I'm like, no way. Okay, there's 30 grand gone. I'm gonna find another one. She went to another one a little better. Cool. Yeah. I got twice a week. Two days later, she runs again. So I'm down 65k in three days, and I'm like bleeding cash. And then I figure out, like another spot. She stayed like 30 days, relapsed, and then, yeah, she kept relapsing. And then multiple times, Narcan up in Calabasas, there's a place, and she left. And this one girl, she had night terrors. And so they would. She had. I would walk around, Joe, with this Ziploc bag of pills of like, antidepressants for her night terrors, sleeping pills, all these things to just take away this trauma for whatever beat it would be within her.

Right. And there's an amazing doc up there and South African guy that deals with women addicts and trauma. And she was there for a while, and that was really great. And she got a hold of these sleeping pills, and they supposed to give you one every night. And the girl put the bottle up on the little half door. You know those doors. Swinging doors. Yeah. And so she grabbed the bottle and she was. As a lot of these sober livings are, they're pretty incestuous. And the guys sleep with the girls, vice versa, obviously. And she was dating a kid named Mike there. And so she went to that part of the house and said. Said goodbye to Mike. And to this kid's credit, he was like, that's a little weird. You didn't say good night. You just said goodbye. And so she goes up, hammers, 60 something sleeping pills.

Oh, Jesus.

Yeah. And he goes and tells. He's like, hey, this ain't right. You got to go check on her. So long story short, call the ambulance. And the medic, to his credit is like, go grab the bottle and grabs a bottle and shows this medic, and he's like, we're pumping her stomach right now in the ambulance. And what saved her life were their time release. Isn't that fucking crazy?

Wow.

Yeah. Wild. So I got this call and I lost my mind for giving her the bottle. But yeah, she. At that point, she kind of just ran again. Went to a drug house. She hates using needles, so someone would shoot her up. Yeah. So as you know, if you're sober 92 days, whatever it was, if you use what you were using before you're gone. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

So they dropped. It's a movie. They dropped her off at the stupidest hospital and she got Narcan. I didn't know any of this part. I didn't. I wasn't privy to this yet. I'm just driving around looking for. And anyway, she's just to go back to that environment. I'm like, I'm out of money. We gotta. I gotta send you back home to Vancouver. And she's like, you put me to Vancouver, I'm gonna die. And I'm like, well, it ain't working well here either. And she was at a psych ward on 34th and Lamar. That was a fucked up story, but for like 10 days. But anyway, she got. She went to this place called the Westy House in New Westminster just outside Vancouver. And it was a woman's only. And she was there. She ran there and I got her back in and she got clean and hasn't looked back since.

Ran again.

I know, man, Vancouver.

Those phone calls must be rough.

I didn't even know what Al Anon was. And I was at 360 Bridge. There's a church just across 360 Bridge. And I was at this Al Anon and. And I'm waiting. I didn't. Shells has been gone, so I'm waiting for the call of like, okay, she's finally overdosed and gone. And so I'm a mess. And I'm in Al Anon just waiting for this call. And I'm judging everybody in this Al Anon. Like, there's this woman across from me, she's like, yeah, my husband, he used. And yeah, I got Christmas with him. And I'm like, fuck, that's easy day. I'm like, you don't even know what the fuck I'm dealing with over here, you know? And then you hear another story and you're like, that's bullshit. You guys are pussies. All in my head. And so I just listen. It does help or help me a lot. And I come out in this one guy, he's like, hey, you're heavy. You gotta. You wanna talk or anything? You didn't say a word in there. And I'm like, right when he said that, my sis called and she was downtown Vancouver and she had just used and got scared straight.

Some guy had followed her and sexually abused a friend of hers in front of her. And she's like, I can't do this no more. So she was scared straight and she.

Said that's what got her sober.

She got. She was downtown Vancouver, called me and she's like, can you get me back in Westie house? And I call Susan was her name and call her back. And I'm throwing everything. I'm like, I will fucking support you guys. Can you give us a bed? Can you get her one more Time. I know she's not allowed back and all this. And she goes, I'll call you back. And she got. She got her bed and she was there nine months. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

So what. What was it that finally kept her sober? Does she say?

That's a good question.

Jamie, can you tell Jeff to bring in the coffee?

That's a good question. I know. At times it was like she has. We have nieces and nephews and she wanted to get clean for them, but that didn't last. I think it was that moment of getting scared straight. Like, you just can't keep doing this.

Rock bottom.

Yeah. I think that's what it is. It's so subjective, right?

Yeah.

We all know somebody that's like, I stopped drinking yesterday.

Yep.

Done.

Yeah.

Like, my buddy over there you just met, it's just like he went for a few weeks and he hasn't had booze since. And it's like sometimes it just clicks and they're like, this life, I don't want it anymore. And some just can't break that habit.

But yeah, it varies so much.

Oh, my God.

Thanks, Jeremy.

But yeah, she's a lot like me too. Super. I'll steal some.

Get some dog.

Thanks, man.

Yeah, it's.

It's a beautiful story. Tragically. Yeah.

It ends well.

Yeah.

Yeah. But it very well couldn't have.

I know.

Imagine if that guy didn't say goodbye. What is goodbye? Why. Why goodbye? What the going on? Yeah. That one guy probably saved your sister's life.

And I want to fucking kill that guy, by the way, because he's. He relapsed with her and used with her at that drug. I know, man. So that, like, for me, is a big part of Howlers Ridge. And then with the vets is we just chatted. I love these guys and the families and so hopefully we'll have you talk about ibogaine. I know we can't do that in Montana yet, hopefully, but I hope up there on Howlers Ridge we can. Maybe in a year or two we'll see what happens. That we can do some of that up there.

Well, I think it's gonna be so effective in Texas that it's gonna spread. And I think the fact that they're starting with veterans because these guys don't get any support. I know you think about what they have to go through when they go off to war with the things that they experience and then they come back and they've lost friends and they've seen their buddies get blown up in front of Them and they're. They just, they're all fucked up. And then they're hooked on pills.

And the pills are just. You can cookie monster a fucking jar if you want. And they'll refill you like. And there's different outlets like Virginia, Hawaii, Florida, doctors in each one that are sending you.

Yep.

And it's. That's you literally at your doorstep. You're getting these jars of pills. So you're giving. And these guys obviously have addictive personalities. That's what makes him so fucking great. Yeah, that's one thing.

Like that's a weird thing, right? That the addictive tendency can actually make you great at something.

Yeah. Well, beautiful, right?

Yeah. If you use it, if you harness it. But it can go sideways on you, which is really weird.

It is. That's one thing. And it's funny because it's not that I'm cocky or was cocky with Dark Wolf, but I had played this guy already before and I lose my trident in it. And Mendoza's kind of getting the parade rest ready and the whole ceremony ready for it. And he's just a brother of mine. And. And it was a big moment that I learned because these workups say you work up on a Thursday and you go at 2am to 7am and you go take a couple guys out and you come back, whatever, celebrate, probably get, have a few drinks and then you have another workup on Tuesday. But let's say you and I go in the fight and I die on that Thursday op. You're back in workup Tuesday morning. So this is one thing that really kind of punched me when I was talking to Mendoza because he was talking about some stories where he lost somebody. And I was like, there's literally no time to mourn. There's no time to register the loss of this. So you're just harnessing this pain and this, all these emotions.

Yeah.

And you're just like, okay, I guess I'm back in the fight. And I'm gonna do this for at least another few months before I'm out of my six month tour. And that really kind of knocked me out and that set me free to play this guy a lot more like just knee jerk emotion and way more of a live wire because it's like who we talk about how subjective mourning is, you know, it's like everyone mourns differently.

Yeah.

So it's like I just made that choice with Ben of just like, this guy's just a fucking mess and let him just emotionally make these decisions then. And that's where I took him.

Did you have conversations with other vets that were addicts and that were fucked up from war and just had all sorts of different kinds of ways of dealing with trauma and.

All the time.

Yeah.

All the time. It's so common. It really is. Yeah.

It only makes sense. It would be crazy if it wasn't common.

I know. Yeah.

What you're asking them to do.

I know. And we don't know the half of it. No, we really don't.

We don't know any of it. We don't experience. If you don't physically experience it, you're just making things up.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah. And I mean, I think obviously with Red Wings and stuff like that, with loan. But then you talk to these guys in between takes and they're pretty transparent, which is beautiful that they're talking about it and all this, but it's like, where are they putting this energy after they're out? Like, they gotta find another purpose that's so heightened when you're serving. There's no bigger purpose. You're killing bad guys.

Yeah.

Like, that's incredible. With your brothers right next to you. Like, that's a heavy thing to carry. And then when they come out, now what.

Right.

I'm gonna go walk Walmart and.

Right.

Just be a dad. And that's just a whole nother life.

That's one of the things I really loved about Hurt Locker.

Yeah. Fuck me.

Such a good movie.

Yeah.

And it was so good. The way he explained or. Or the way it played out, how this guy just could not go back to normal. Like, it just wasn't working.

He.

He didn't give a. He'd rather be back out there.

Yeah.

Down. Right.

I mean, you look at Marcus, too. After Red Wings, he went back to Ramadi.

Yeah.

Which is. Wanted to die with his boots on. I mean, these guys are. This is kind of the ufc, Right. Of like, these guys are modern day gladiators warriors. And I know they're not in the front lines or downrange, but it's like you. You got a guy like Marcus or the Mendoza or these guys that are just truly born warriors. There's just that they are a different breed.

Well, that's why they get it through buds too.

Yeah.

You got to be a different kind of human.

Yeah. Yeah. More mental than physical.

Yeah.

I mean, Mendoza was running BUDS too. And he would say, a lot of times, you look at these fucking scrawny guys. Yeah.

Those are the ones that make.

And then you got the D1 athletes. That haven't had or gone through a whole lot because they're gifted athletically up here though, they're not as strong. And that fucking scrawny guy over there is bringing that D1 athlete with them. Yeah, yeah. Those stories.

That's kind of the case with fighters too, sometimes. Sometimes it's the guys that aren't talented that wind up being champions because they're tougher and they work harder.

Yeah.

Because they don't have it given to them easily. You know, they can't half ass in the gym. They have to be all in.

Yeah, yeah. It's the life.

Yeah.

It's the sacrifice. What are you willing to do?

And you, you, you know, you have to be all in in that job. Both jobs.

Yeah. And comfort can kill you.

Oh, yeah. In everybody's life.

Yeah.

Yeah. I hate it.

I know, I know.

I hate it.

I know.

Man, I would have thought that one day that I'd be wealthy, that I'd be just chilling and going to the beach. Like now you're going even harder every morning and. And yeah. No, I fucking hate it. I think it's the enemy. It really is the enemy of happiness.

Yeah.

Really.

Even like me with acting, it's like, I live for it, I love it. And I honestly do believe I've just worked my way through stubbornly. Like, I'll just outwork people. It's not like I was gifted this talent or it truly isn't. I'll just outwork people. And then now it's like 44 now, which is crazy. And now I'm starting to be like, okay, you're thinking about kids, you're thinking about, I need a little more balance. But then I start this balance and it scares the fuck out of me. And I don't like it.

How does it scare you?

Just. It's the comfort, right? It's like, oh, kitsch. Don't take this. Just go keep fly fishing. Keep, you know, just go on a motorcycle trip.

Go.

Which is great. And I'll still do it, but I'm just so conscious of it. Of like, don't get comfortable. Don't think, don't rest on your work.

You know, comfort's not bad if you earn it.

Right.

But you gotta earn the out of it. Where, like when you're sitting on that couch, you know, that you actually need to recover. Like.

Yeah.

If you're gonna keep going, you need to recover. So, like, watching south park is probably good for you.

Yeah, yeah.

Actually, like medicine.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, just let me just zone Out.

True, true.

Yeah.

But there is that, I think. I don't know. Do you have that with the. The fear of failure still, of just.

Like, of it all falling apart?

That and like I'm on set in two weeks and I'm scared.

Yeah.

And it's a heavy role. Ton of dialog.

That's because you're doing the right thing. I know it's what you're supposed to.

Be doing, but I can't sit on that couch because I'm like, what the fuck are you doing, kids?

Well, now you can't sit on the couch.

Yeah.

It's getting ready to go time.

Yeah.

But that's why you. You're doing what you do. I mean, you. You have to be a little scared of what you do. You have to be.

Yeah.

Like Monday, I'm going elk hunting.

Yeah.

Kind of freaking out. What do you guys do? Because it's hard.

Yeah, it is.

It's. I got in shape. I got like. Did a lot of cardio, a lot of leg workouts.

Because you're going.

You're huffing it up those mountains. I shot three hours of arrows today. Three fucking arrows and pulling. Three hours. I'm pulling back an 80 pound bow.

No joke.

Yeah, it's. It's a lot of work, man. I work hard, but it's. Because when it's there, you want to be prepared.

Yeah.

Leading up to it, I get like super serious. I get like really, like where it's. It's with me all day long.

I know it with me.

I'm putting in my underwear with me. While I'm sitting in the cold plunge, I'm thinking about the mountains. Because it's a hard thing to do. And that's why I do it, because I love it and. But it's also because it's a hard thing to do. And when you're getting ready to do like a roll that's like a intense roll. The nerves are a good thing. They're your friend.

Yeah. That truly keeps you honest feeling. Yeah.

You can't eat. Like, that's. That's your friend.

Or you're looking through my girlfriend.

Yeah. You barely listen.

Running lines.

Yep. Yep.

And what if I do this in this scene?

Huh? But they want to talk about Taylor Swift's engagement. I can't hear.

And then you're an asshole.

Right? Like, what did you say? You're not listening. I was. I was listening. I just spaced out for a second. I'm sorry.

Yeah. And then you go back to being spaced out after apologizing Or I'll just literally be like, I'm going on a bike ride and I'm gone for two, three hours, and then I'm running shit in my head. Or. It's so true, but it's the same. I equate it to, like, when we're rolling, it's like, you ain't hiding no more, kids. You're. You're in it. It's the same thing. Once you get exposed to that elk, it's like, this is your moment.

Yeah.

We're gonna see if you did the work.

Yeah.

Yeah.

100. Yeah. I think people all. Everyone needs something like that, but it scares people, so they shy away from it and they look towards something that's guaranteed. You get a guaranteed paycheck. It's easy. It's simple. But that's the. That's. That's your enemy.

Yeah.

That's how. That's how your life becomes this just dull shade of gray.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah. Not good. You're very fortunate. You're very fortunate you've been able to do what you love and that. What you love is, you know, it's. It's very exciting.

Yeah.

Like. And it's very exciting to other people. It's very rewarding.

Yeah.

I do. I fucking loved you in American Primeval.

Thanks. That role. That was my glass gladiator.

That was intense. That one scene where you're getting changed and you see all the cuts all over your body, you're like. Like, whoa. Yeah. Like, it just.

That scene. I lost a bunch of weight for it. And then Howard Berger did my makeup for that, and he's incredible. And that scene, man, that scene meant.

A lot because it's everything you saw, it's. Everything is raw.

Naked, with his Shoshone brother and covered in scars. And then goes into that teepee with the chief, the mother of his wife that he lost. And I wrote that scene, man.

Whoa.

Yeah. And so Pete. Pete and I came up with its only pain. And then I. I broke my foot and got a fucking bone cut out of it on this. That show. And you know the scene where bone.

Cut out of it? Yeah. Why they cut a bone out?

So there's a scene where I go down to get horses and I kill five or six guys at this skinning camp. And I think it's episode two. And Betty Gilpin, who's amazing, comes down and she's like, didn't trust me. And she comes down. I have to kill these guys. During that sequence. I broke this. My foot. And they call cut And I go to Dashnaw, the stunt coordinator, and I'm like, oh, it's broken. And he's like, I've worked with him for 15 years. And he's like, don't fuck with me. And I'm like, no, Dash, it's broken. I got the shooting pain in my groin. And he's like, get the fuck out of here. And I'm like, yeah, so finish the scene. And they. They spray fucking bio freeze on my foot. And I'm like, guys, it's broken. Like I'm. And so I go to Bozeman and he's like, it's this small bone right on the side of your foot right there that goes up and down right.

Here next to your toe.

Connecting my big toe. It's on the side bone on my big toe.

Huh.

And so he's like, oh, you can wear a boot. It's a small bone, so you won't need to. It'll heal itself. So I go back and I'm in a boot doing this show, and I got a 6 foot 6 wrangler. So when I get off that horse, 90% of the time, I think his name's BJ. Great dude, big cowboy. And he's below me off camera taking my weight because I can't step off the horse because I'm in a fucking boot.

Medical boot.

Yeah. And then six weeks goes by, or a month, and I go back to Bozeman, take my boot off, and he does one last X ray and he's like, you need to be in surgery today. Oh, no, that's what I said. That's a shitty call in Netflix and Pete. And so I got surgery. And then right before surgery, he's like, we can pin it, but you're gonna be super active and it may not take. Or I can cut it out and put bone wax on it.

Bone wax?

Yeah. Didn't know there was a thing of that. Bone wax. I don't know. E.

So you just said cut it.

Yeah.

Because you wanted to go back to work.

Yeah.

So they cut a chunk of bone off. And what is bone wax?

I think it just is a protective coating over it. Oh, look at this.

Commonly supplied in sterile sticks. Usually requires softening before it can be applied. It's generally made of beeswax. Softening agent. Uses paraffin or petroleum jelly. And it's smeared across the bleeding edge of the bone, blocking the holes and causing immediate bone hemostasis.

Still don't know what it means.

I don't know what this mean. Is this A tamponade. Tamponade effect, but closure of blockage as if by a tampon, especially to stop bleeding, you know. Tampon on your foot, bro?

Yeah, I do.

Wow, that's crazy.

Oh, God.

So does your foot fuck with you now?

Yeah, it's. If I'm fly fishing or on uneven ground, it's. Or if I'm doing, you know, if I'm tracking or doing something. Side hilling, which I fucking hate.

Right.

Side hill hiking. I hate it. I have a terrible knee as well. That's where it bites. Yeah.

Yeah.

And then. Yeah. So I dealt with that. We had to. I had to be on the couch for six weeks. But my first day back was those two scenes and I had called Pete and I'm like, hey, I wrote this scene I'd love. Because that scene was exposition with my mom. At first. We were talking about red feather and stuff. And I'm like, this is my first day back after losing them. That I haven't seen her since. I've lost her daughter and her grandson. So this guy can't get through anything. So that was the crutch. And thank you for noticing. That's the crutch of that whole arc to that guy.

Yeah. It was intense scene because he. It was so realistic.

Yeah.

Like. Like, well, that's what a guy would look like. Like, I hate when you see someone who looks like they've been living an easy life.

Yeah.

And they take their shirt off and it's supposed to be like in some rugged outdoor environment. They just look soft. Yeah.

Or he's stacked and that's incredible.

In the gym. Yeah. Eating creatine. No, you look like a hard man. Like a hard man who's been through some fucking hand to hand combat. They look very realistic.

Yeah.

You had to starve yourself for that.

Yeah.

How much did you have to lose just to get.

I had time. I had time, which was great. I lost 30 for that. Whoa. Yeah.

That's a lot of weight.

Yeah. But I had done it. I did this one film called the Bang Bang Club here. I was just living off Lamar here. And I play this drug addicted true story about these war photographers right before the. During the apartheid, right before the first free election, Mandela's election, Kevin Carter's his name. He won a Pulitzer for this epic shot that he took. Got a lot of flack for, and ended up taking his own life. But that. I had 30 days to prep, and I lost 35 in 30 days. Whoa. And I remember going just over I35 here to this Dock and my heart rate was low 20s.

Oh, God.

Because all I was doing was running coffee and I would. The broth can be super salty, sodium heavy. So I'd filter that and then just have broth and broccoli for dinner.

Oh my God, you're just starving yourself.

Yeah, it was bad. And then I got a thyroid problem from that. And that dog, that doc was like, hey, you're gonna fail this physical. Just so you know. And I'm like, what do I gotta do? I'm going to Africa next week. And he's like, do some push ups. So I did push ups and got my heart rate into the low 40s. And he's like, okay. Wow. I know.

That's crazy. You're probably kind of dying. Yeah, that's nuts, dude.

And then I was hurting. They would shoot me out on Bang Bang Club. Like just shoot your coverage and go. Go back to bed. And then I ended up getting a nutritionist there and she helped me a little bit, but that was a quick shoot. But that's where I think I fucked my body on that one. Wow. And then Koresh again, lost weight for that.

That was great, by the way. Thanks. That fucking whole caress. Crazy.

I know, man.

What is it like doing that movie? Because it's another real life.

Yeah, that was. I was just prepping right there too. That was almost too long a prep. Here's me saying I love prep. But I had six months to get into that space. And it just. The last month I tried to pull out of the show.

Really?

Yeah. Because I was just. This is. I was just. You're holding. Hoarding. All this energy and you. I lost the weight. Learning to play guitar and sing, which was a comedy. I'm terrible.

He was terrible too, though.

Yeah. Yeah, he was. That literally helped me. I listen to Dave and I'd be like, wow, guy sucked. He.

How he got people to follow him with that terrible singing. If I was in that call. Yo, there. We got to re evaluate. This guy is not Christ. He is not the leader.

He's actually kind of terrible.

Right.

Should we leave?

Sucks. His music sucks.

Yeah.

But just what is it like getting in the head space of someone who's that depraved too? And. And who has that kind of like sick control over people?

Why figure out why.

Why did you figure?

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah.

Go to his childhood, which was terrible, of course. Like, you don't become a cult leader. Two great healthy parents always giving you.

Hugs, siblings, and you decide to be a cult leader.

No. Yeah, yeah. He memorized the Bible by 15, which is. That says enough right there.

That's intense.

But he was, like, tied to a radiator on his birthday. Like, abused pretty hard. And I almost bought his car. Oh, my God.

He had a 1968 Camaro. And a buddy of mine texted me and said, yo, David Crush's car for sale. And he knows I'm a car head. And I'm like, are you? I love cars, especially old muscle cars. Yeah, I got a bunch of them. And I have a 69 Camaro. And I was thinking about. At that time, I didn't have any Camaros, but I was thinking about getting, like, 68 or a 69 or 67. I like the 69s a little more. A little wide body. But then I found out it was Koresh's car. I was like, whoa, that'd be wild to drive to the Comedy Store. And David Koresh's Mustang in Texas. Or David Koresh's Camaro, rather. But then I thought about it. I said, you know what? I don't want it. I don't want anything from that guy. I don't want that guy.

That's a mojo.

I don't want to hold his steering wheel. I don't want to sit in his seat. I don't want it. I don't want it. Also. What a piece of shit. That guy's a preacher. He's driving around a muscle car, like, for sure, right there and then.

Terrible muscle car ego. Little bit of an ego.

Ego, yeah. I mean, not that you can't enjoy. I love them. I think they're one of the greatest accomplishments of American engineering in terms of, like, a piece of functional artwork.

Yeah.

American muscle cars. I love them.

I'm that way with Moto Motorcycles, too. And I got to set. We shot actually, in Waco. Wanted nothing to do with us, so. Yeah, rightfully so. So we shot that in Santa Fe.

Like, to change that.

Yeah, man.

And Waco is a great town, by the way.

Yeah, it's grown, like, enormously, too. But, yeah, his motorcycle came for sale, and obviously they knew we were making it. I kick tires on it. And they wanted to just. It was probably worth two grand. They wanted 15 or something. And it was just like, go yourself.

Right.

And what. Honestly, like, you just said, what am I gonna do, Moto?

Yeah, I thought it was. I was. I thought it was silly at first, and then after a while, I'll be like, I can't do this.

Yeah. Yeah.

I. When. Before we opened up the comedy mothership in town. I was under contract for this place called the One World Theater that was also owned by here. Yeah.

No way.

Yeah, the One World Theater. You know where it is? It's on B. Cave. Well, this is what's about the story. Ron White performed there once because they have concerts there. And Ron White did stand up, and we were talking about opening up a club, and he said, you should buy that place down on Bee Cave. It's the beautiful theater. I think it's for sale. I played there once. It's amazing. I was like, all right, well, Ron White's the man. If he tells me, I'll go check it out. And I check it out, and I'm like, yeah, we could do this. Let's do it. And so signed the contracts, all that. And then I get a call from my friend Adam. He goes, hey, did you ever watch the documentary on that cult? I'm like, oh, no, there's a documentary. The documentary is called Holy Hell. And it's about a guy who's a gay porn star and a hypnotist. There was a yoga instructor.

Oh, my God.

Checking everybody. Yep. So it's yoga instructor in Hollywood. And then the cult in Waco gets taken down. And then he is on the run now, because now the cult awareness network starts going after all these cults after Waco. They're like, hey, you know, people's children are getting kidnapped, essentially by these maniacs. And, you know, winds up being like, waco, we gotta stop these cults. And so he moves to Austin and changes his name and has a theater. You know, this is the 90s. You could get away with changing your name. Yeah, nobody. No Internet. And so this guy has his followers build him this theater so he can dance in front of them. The documentary is bananas. And I see the documentary, I'm like, oh, my God, I gotta get out of this. After I see the documentary, I'm like, I gotta get out of this deal. I gotta get. And. And fortunately, there was a problem. Fortunately there was a problem because, you know, you got a bunch of cult members building a place. They're not gonna do it to code.

No. And so just, like, his residence.

Yeah, there was a lot of that was wrong. A lot of wacky. They didn't want to pay for it. I'm like, let's just.

Yeah.

So it cost me a little bit of money, and I got out of it. And then we eventually got the ritz on. On 6th street, and that's the perfect spot. Anyway, but it was the thing of Being in that building, knowing what happened, I'm like, I can't handle this different energy. 100, 200 people wasted their life with this for 20 years. And there was a bunch of them crying at the end of the documentary, like, I lost my life. My life is meaningless now. I thought I was going to be with them forever. Now I'm a dog walker. I'm like, oh my God. I know I can't carry that in this club. I can't feel it. Yeah, no, I'd have to tear the building club. I just thought it'd be silly, you know, oh, building built by a cult, perfect, we'll take it. But the reality is every cult winds up being the same thing. The guy wants all the money and he wants to fuck everybody. It's almost every one of them has the same profile.

And fear based always, always, always fear based always.

Everybody else is the enemy. I'm the solution. The nutty thing about this guy though is that he would do this thing to these people called the know it. And you had to earn it. And when you earned it, it was this very special ceremonious moment. And he would put his hands on their head and he would do something to them. And these people would feel God, they would experience God. And I know that it has to be some sort of a placebo effect or psycho somatic, something where your brain triggers this energy. But all these people that called him a fraud, that hated him, I wasted my. They all talked about that moment like it was the greatest moment of their life. Still, they're like, I gained a connection to God and to the universe. That to this day was the most profound and loving moment of my life. It's like, yeah, the guy was a total piece of shit, scam artist, con man, liar, everything was wrong. Yet he was still capable of doing that thing to them, condition them over years. Well, he had them thinking about the moment that it was going to come one day.

And then he would take it away from them. And then, and then one person would get it. And they would all sit around and watch and they're like, when am I gonna get it? But when they got it, they would all be like, it's because we know that the brain produces psychedelic chemicals. And I guess you can trick it, which is I think what a near death experience is. I think a near death experience. Your body, your body's like it's over. Flood the gates. Yeah, and then, yeah, right, rolls through and then you, you know, you go down the tunnel and light and all the Jazz and you meet dead people.

Yeah.

This is. I think this is possible with everybody. You just have to achieve the right state of mind. I know people in Kundalini Yoga, the people that are like heavy into it can fucking completely trip balls.

Really.

I had a buddy of mine who had done dmt.

Oh yeah.

And then he really done DMT a couple times so he knew what the experience was. And then he really got into Kundalini Yoga and he was doing it for like six months. And then.

What is Kundalini?

It's a very specific kind of yoga that involves like deep breath work and there's a lot of like head bobbing. It's very strange, but it's. You achieve a dmt, like state. He's like, you achieve a full on psychedelic experience doing Kundalini. I was like, whoa. And I've always thought about like trying.

It and practicing it.

I'm like, like, yeah, I don't have time. I'm too busy. I can't think about some new thing to be obsessed with. But. But it's. My point is that there is some little trigger in your brain that if you can trick your brain into snapping over to on it just.

I believe that part.

This cult guy did it to those people. As much as they hated him, as much as they knew he was a fry. He. Everybody.

Yeah.

The crazy thing is like, like they didn't know that everybody was getting. And so like one guy leaves the cult and he sends out this group email. Like, hey, this guy's been hypnotizing me and me for like 10 years. And they're all like, I thought it was only me. And then it became crazy where everybody had a story. Everybody had a story. He would charge them money for these experiences and then he'd.

Of course. Jesus.

Hilarious, but terrible. Yeah. And so I didn't want that building. So, like, I didn't want Koresh's car.

Let me look at that contract again.

No. So when you were getting close and you wanted to pull out, was it just the heaviness of carrying around this guy's weight?

Yep, yep. And then I called my manager, Steph and she's like, give it a day. And then the Dowdle brothers, who wrote and directed Terrific Guys. And I called John and I think one thing that set me free probably on month three, because I was really stuck on everything we've just said of like, why am I playing some guy? That's pretty reprehensible in a lot of ways, but I'm a real person. Yeah.

Who did Real damage to people.

But I was judging him and that was like, really a big block for me because I couldn't understand him more. And so once I started to not cast judgment or my own judgment on him and just trying to understand and root him, then I was like, okay, I'm gonna fly now. Of like, this is his childhood. This is why he's doing this. And so it's your guys's job can judge away and do all this, but for me to play this guy, I can't bring that to him. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. So that helps. Yeah, yeah. I gotta do it and try and root that.

When you got done with the role, was it like a thing that you had to cast off yourself?

Like, bang bang, club Me, I was hurting pretty bad after. I didn't know my process very well. And, you know, Kevin Carter was just really, really troubled. And I think it was Mandrax, which is an animal tranquilizer that he would take. Oh, boy. Yeah. And he would have night terrors and all this. There's photos of him. Like, they called it the bang Bang because they had these police scanners and once they would. This is early 90s in South Africa. And once they heard it on the scanner, it's like a bang bang. And they would be there a lot of times before the cops. Like, some kind of civil rights or civil fight would happen. And they would get hear it on the scanner and they'd go like, Scooby Doo kind of shit. They'd get there before the cops a lot of time or the military. And they'd be in the middle of this, shooting it, photographing it. And you see pics of Kev that are just like him in like one shoe high, hiding behind like a fucking barrel in the middle of this gunfight. Like, they would get really into it. And then he was a guy that just kind of took everything to heart, you know, of just.

He would see some pretty abysmal and just be like, take it. You know, wear it. And it just hammered him. And so he would take these drugs and just to sleep and just to get over or get through it. But yeah, that was really tough coming out of him. Just because I didn't know myself enough or process be able to really kind.

Of became a part of him.

Yeah. And then the weight and all that. And then with Dave, yeah, I was so ready to gain the weight back and just wipe my hands with it. I always go on a motorcycle trip after. And that sets me free. Helps me a lot. I'll write Letters and just burn them. That helps a lot. They say when you're like, if I get therapy or something, or it's like write a letter and can literally watch it burn. And that is something like. That's a mind trick, I'm sure. Just like, if there's trauma or something.

Figure out a way to let it go that way.

Yeah.

Ceremonial purging.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah. So.

So that was. Bang Bang was harder than Koresh.

Yeah. On me.

Because you would like not. You hadn't been used to carrying around someone else's thoughts.

Exactly. And that was the first time I started having really bad nightmares in South Africa. And. And I just. That started with me a lot. And then I was really happy. It was only a four week shoot.

Did you try that tranquilizer, whatever the it is, know what it's like?

No. I've only smoked weed three times in my life.

Nothing else?

Nothing.

Little booze.

Little booze. Yeah.

Yeah.

First time.

But just weed.

Yeah.

Wow.

Savages with Oliver Stone.

Oh, no.

So, yeah, Oliver goes hard. He does.

I was surprised he still spoke Swede.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

And I was in rehearsal and he asked me, and I hadn't smoked weed ever before.

Oh, my God.

Yeah. And I'm playing this guy, this, obviously a seal, but that smokes weed, grows weed, sells weed, gets into the cartel.

And you smoke with Oliver Stone the first time?

No, my first time, he gave me some of his medicinal and I went with a buddy who smokes weed all the time. And I staying at the Shangri La in Santa Monica while we were filming. And my buddy bought. Brought over a bong. A water bong.

Oh, no, no. That's not how you do it. If you can do it the first time, this is what I tell you to do. Just go like this. That's it.

That's it.

Just a little hit. You got to dip your toes in there. Drug is also known as Quaaludes. Oh, interesting. That's what Quaaludes are. Wow. It's a brand name for it.

What does it say it's doing to your brain?

It's a muscle relaxer.

Insomnia. There you go.

How do you say that word? Methyl qualogy. Combination of drug known as Mandrax. Sewn primarily in Europe, containing 250mg of methaqualone and 20mg of diphen, diphen, hydramine, diphenhydramine in a single tablet. Whoa. Commercial production was discontinued in many countries during the mid-1980s due to widespread misuse Addiction and associated public health concerns. Yeah. You know, when a popular drug gets pulled, it's pretty bad. Yeah.

That was no joke.

So just because that was the first time you'd ever tried carrying around someone's thoughts. That was.

Yes.

Because he was so up.

Yeah. Yeah. And I was that actor where it was like, I got to be in trauma too then.

Right, right, right, right.

Definitely real. Yeah.

But it comes out. That's the. Yeah, it comes out in the role. Like it seems real. Like as nutty as Daniel Day Lewis's process is when that is that guy and there will be blood. You believe it.

I drink your milkshake.

He's there, man. He's dialed in. He's the best. But it's just that process has got to be soul crushing.

Y. Yeah.

Because you lose you. You lose you and now you're some up person.

Yeah.

Like David Koresh.

Yeah. You have nightmares living in a mini hotel room in South Africa, like lonely as. Yeah. It's no joke. That was no joke. But I. I've learned my process a lot more.

Did you have to refine it on your own? Did you get help?

Yeah, it was Waco that really kind of set me straight in my process really helped me figure out like. Like my. Me because it's all self exploratory as well as is acting. And. And then you're just way more conscious of it. Of like. Okay. Like even with relationships of like. Okay, that's. I. I can get quite short, like be like true detective. I was oddly an through the whole thing and I had my best friend of 30 years with me helping me on that. And I was drinking like to blackout and that's not me. I don't drink much, but I was just a mess. And my buddy was. Is like played in the NHL. AHL was a fighter. Like, he'd murder me.

Shitty with him.

Really shitty with him. And I would poke him.

Booze, bro.

I know. It is the worst. I know, man.

It's the worst for that. So when people get themselves into situations that they really should not be in.

And I would poke them in and we go to this shithole bar. It's called Sports Harbor. I don't even know if it's open anymore. But I would fuck around and I didn't have to find out, but I definitely was getting that. Really, I was conscious of it. And he would have to have a moment with me of like, hey, you said this last night.

Or do you think it was partly because you're trying to play detective and.

Detectives are all up in the closet just a mess.

So do you think that's what it was like?

Yeah, I do. Yeah. Because after I shed it or after it wrapped us with my sis. Right after. But I was fine. I didn't touch anything. But during I was no bueno. Wow. Even getting ready for this. It's. I play this director of corrections in Texas. It's a true story about the longest hostage situation in. In the US in a prison. It's 11 day hostage negotiation. And Freddie Carrasco is going to be played by Luna Diego Luna, who's. I can't wait to see what he does with this. But I play the director of corrections. So we're negotiating for 11 days and I. And he's got to be quite hard on his war in. On the guys in his war room. And he kind of comes in and he takes over the negotiation and he's never done a negotiation before. So he makes a mistake here or there and he. He pays the piper psychologically for it because it doesn't end great. And. And so I'm starting to get into that mindset and when I'm with a buddy or something like that, I can be quite short. And you start to see it filtering in. I'm like, okay.

Jim is settling in me. Like I can start to feel it a little bit more. I get a little more reactionary.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's so creepy. It's like you're getting haunted. You're kind of getting haunted by your characters. But that's. Dude, that's why you're so good. I think that's there's something to that man, because you're believable, you know, Like I've seen you in a bunch of movies, but it doesn't matter whatever the you're doing. I believe even though I know.

Know.

Oh, that's Taylor Kitsch.

Yeah.

I've seen him in Lone Survivor. I've seen him in this. I've seen him in that. When you're in that. The same as the. The Daniel Day Lewis thing. That's. He's that guy. He's that guy. And even though you know who he is, that's how good he is, that he's still that guy. Even though you know who the that is.

Oh, I know.

It's like the trick works.

That monolog Daniel Day has on the porch where he's like, I don't. To his brother. I think it is where he goes, I don't like people. Yeah. Oh, all time.

Yeah.

He is the best to do it.

Such a complicated character he played, too.

I know.

It was so much to it.

He's. He's got something coming out soon, too. His son, I think, directed it, which is gonna be a banger. I. I think he plays a soldier that comes back or.

Oh, I saw a trailer.

Just.

Yeah, that's right. I saw a trailer recently.

Yeah.

That thing of carrying a guy around like that, whether it's the detective or Koresh or the bang bang guy, it's like, that's got to be exhausting.

Yeah.

Because you're like, real light in real life. You're friendly and like, hey, what's up? How you doing? I was. Because I didn't know. They know what you're gonna be like.

Everybody's different, you know, I heard horror stories of you.

Have you really?

No.

I try to be nice, but, you.

Know, I was just with Sheridan the other day.

Oh, Taylor, I love that guy.

Yeah, man. And of course, Pete and every car. Everyone's like, you're gonna have a blast.

Yeah, no, for sure. Everybody told me that about you, too.

Oh, great.

Yeah. But, you know, you don't know.

I know.

Until you. But that. I'm glad I didn't meet you while you're on folded detective in full character, you know, because full character's crazy. You're kind of haunted.

Yeah. You gotta live it. You gotta live it. I think. I mean, you look at anybody that's great at anything you have to. That it's amount. It's the amount of sacrifice you're willing to give to it.

Yeah. You have to be truly all in all the time.

And I think it's that, like, the fear of failure. And also, I don't want to fucking watch it and be like, oh, catch, you didn't.

Right, right.

That would kill me.

Right, right.

That would fucking kill me.

Yeah. The. The. Watching a guy phone it in is the worst feeling as a consumer of the show. Like a person, a, you know, passenger on the ride, watching someone phone it in. Like, no, dude, do another take.

Yeah, that's the one they keep.

What are you doing? You going through a divorce?

Yeah.

What's going on?

They're out there.

You can't. Can't lock in. Yeah.

I've worked with some pretty huge names that have apologized.

Yeah.

After a film or at the premiere or something that were like, hey, I'm. I. I'm sorry, man. I just wasn't there. That's like, in my head, I'm like, no, I know.

Yeah. I had Charlie Sheen on yesterday.

Oh, no way.

Yeah. And he was talking about his time doing anger management, about he was still really up and just doing way too many drugs and he was trying to be locked in, but he was. And he just didn't do it. And then he wanted. Didn't want to do it anymore. So he was miserable while he was there. And he's all fucked up and he's, like, apologizing to everybody now. I was like, I am so.

Really.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a sweetheart of a guy, like, a really nice guy.

He's sober eight years.

Almost eight years.

Amazing.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, you can see the itch behind his eyes, right? You know, that's a struggle that sober is a struggle sober. Because that guy went through it for so many years. The stories he was telling about, like, literally how 1am to 7am would go by like that. And then all sudden, someone was pounding on his door. It's time to go to work. He's like, I am high as fuck on crack. He goes, and so I have to lie in bed. So he'd lie in bed. I try to close my eyes. He goes, I'm not taking a nap. He go, I'm cracked out of my mind. My whole body's vibrating. And he goes, and then I took an ice cube and I stuck it up my ass.

Get out.

And the ice cube woke him up and got him back. Like, he was literally falling asleep on the set. And he said, give me a couple minutes, and he shoves an ice cube up his ass.

That movie writes itself, bro.

That guy went, how do you figure that out? Out.

You know, you're just going to the fridge.

I gotta wake up. He's literally falling asleep. How do I wake up? Shove an ice cube up my ass. Like, I guess it works. What were the other choices? Stick a fork in an electric socket. How did you get to an ice cube up your.

Oh, my God.

But he was going that hard and, you know, it just.

He's so lucky he didn't die. So were the uppers and downers and everything. The cracks.

Well, people that he. The girl he smoked crack with, the first time he ever smoked crack with eventually overdosed.

Ah.

He told a story about the first time he smoked quack. This girl who was a crackhead, she gave him a blow job while he took his first hit of crack. He said, to this day, I can't top that experience. He goes, to this day. He goes, I probably shouldn't say that. He goes, to this day, this is the greatest moment of my Life.

Wow. Holy shit.

Like, oh, my God.

Isn't there a doc on him that just came out.

Yeah, that's what it's about. Yeah. He wrote a book and he did it.

Oh, he did?

Yeah. He's doing movies again, is he? Yes, he's excited to be working again. He was a little bummed out that it took so long for him to get a job again, but.

Wow.

Yeah. I mean, you know.

Yeah.

You got a lot of tough hires. Yeah. A lot of money.

A lot of insurance on the studio. Yeah.

But now he's sober for eight years, so.

Wow.

Good for him.

Holy. What is he, like, 60 now?

He's in his 60s. He actually looks good.

Does he?

So for a long time, he looked terrible. And I said to him, I go, do you look better than I've seen you? I mean, I hadn't seen him ever in real life. It was the first time I ever met him, but it was. He looked good. He looked healthy. Look remarkable for a guy that's gone through abused 20 years of redlining the machine, just 20 years of crack.

I'm gonna watch that doc.

Oh, it's. The doc is great. It's really entertaining, too. It's really well shot. It's really all shot.

Yeah.

Really well edited.

And, I mean, that family is pretty epic.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, Martin, come on. Yeah, yeah. No, we talked about Apocalypse now too. Oh, really crazy, because he was on the set when he was 8 years old. 8 or 10?

10.

10. 10 years old. So he's 10 years old in the Philippines on the set of Apocalypse now while it's being filmed.

Yeah.

Helicopters, Robert Duvall, everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, he was there 10.

Oh, my God.

And your dad's Martin Sheen.

The Philippines back then, too.

Dude, I love that movie so much. I wear this watch. This is the Willard. This is a. This is a reproduction of the watch that Martin Sheen wore.

No way.

Apocalypse Now. Yeah. It's my favorite watch.

Yeah.

Because of that.

Yeah.

Because. Well, it's a nice watch. It's a Seiko. But, like, they. All the Vietnam soldiers all got Seikos because they were, like, super durable and reliable. Look at that. That's him.

Oh, my God.

I didn't get it in there, but. Oh, my God. On the set of apocalypse now in 1979. That is crazy.

Oh, how old was Martin Sheen then?

Looks pretty young.

Yeah. I mean, what a legend, though.

He seemed, like, in the movies in his early 30s, right?

Damn.

Yeah. Oh, crazy, crazy, crazy.

I mean, and you wonder why?

And then 10 years later, literally 10 years later, he's doing Platoon Tune, which is the next, like, epic war movie Oliver Stones directed. Who's the other guy? The other guy? Tom.

Who is it? Yes.

Dude. That guy ruled in that movie.

Yep, he did.

He seems so scary.

Yeah. Willem's an amazing guy.

Amazing.

Yeah.

That guy's. I love that guy in everything. He was great in John Wick. He's great in everything.

He really is.

It's great in everything. Willem Dafoe's the fucking man. Yeah. But like, to be there at 10, watching your dad filming the Apocalypse now, and then 10 years later, you're in Platoon and Oliver north is directing you and your narration. Oh, excuse me, Oliver. Oliver North. That's hilarious. Oliver Stone is directing you and you're doing the narration. Like, the whole thing is nuts. 10 years. How do you adjust to that?

No, you don't. Well, that's how you adjust. One word, Crash.

Well, it took a while.

That was his drug of choice.

Coke. When that girl blow him. When the girl gave him a blowjob while he was smoking crack. It was crack. From then on out, it's like, I get it now.

It's a hard sell. Damn.

It's just crazy that. It's crazy that he's alive.

Yeah.

But one of the things that we were saying that I was talking to him about, I was like, no one could understand what you went through because no one has ever done that. No one has ever been Charlie Sheen at 20 years old and been in Platoon, and you're the toast of the town. And you're a baby.

Yeah.

You know, you're just getting out of high school, you know, like, what a baby. And then the world's your oyster. You're doing blow every night, and it's chaos. Just nuts. You're off the rails. And every time you fail, you succeed better. Like, every time you go into rehab, there's a better movie waiting for you on the other side. There's no consequences. Career wise.

God.

And he just.

What was going to the baseball movie. God, I love.

Oh, he was awesome in that.

The best.

Yeah. Yeah.

I grew up watching that.

Yeah. Dude, that. That guy's been in some great movies. He's been some great movies. But to be him and to, you know, to. No, there's no blueprint for that kind.

What was his bottom out? Did he tell you?

He kind of like, there was a bunch of bottoms out.

Yeah. Losing. Then eventually Two and a Half Men or something.

Yeah, it was that and it was his behavior afterwards. And then yeah, he did. He very apologized to Chuck Lorre. He says, we've talked, I've apologized, we're friends now. Like, thank God. Like, because.

Does he live in la, Charlie, I wonder.

Remember? Did he say. I don't think he said.

Yeah.

I don't think I asked him. I don't know if he's still there. But he's been completely sober for eight years.

For him.

Yeah. Good for him.

Holy shit.

Like, if he can do it.

Yeah, no shit, I could do it. It.

And he seems together, both of them. Behringer was in that too. That's right. That's crazy that they. That completely different roles. Behringer and Platoon was so scary.

Yeah.

Scared the out of me.

Damn. I love that.

Yeah. It's just amazing that that guy's life arc to go from being a child on the set of Apocalypse now to ten years later starring.

And I think Apocalypse was like a two year shoot. Three. Yeah.

No, we were talking about it yesterday.

Yeah.

I thought it was even more than that. I think the ENT just kept asking for money forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Francis Ford Copeland, man.

Come on.

He nailed it.

He knit.

To this day, I will watch that movie every now and then and just.

Sit there and go back then, too. To make a movie like that. Yeah.

In 79. Oh, my God, man. That movie was epic. And it was like one of the first like realistic war movies.

Then you got Platoon, like you said.

Yeah, yeah.

Epic.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy that he's, you know, he experienced both of them. One as a child watching his dad had and one as a star. And all within the span of a decade.

Yeah.

Which is like. And 2015 was yesterday, man.

I know. And the most formative years.

Yeah.

10.

Yeah.

What were you doing?

I wasn't in the Philippines. That was the other thing. He was like, we. I didn't know that that world existed. He goes like, I was living in Malibu, you know, in this beautiful town on the beach. You know, everybody's like happy and wealthy and his dad's a movie star. Then all of a sudden he's in the Philippines scenes and he's like in France for Coppola. Had all these sketchy people on set all the time. Like, he was an artist.

He's right.

Like, everybody come on and hang out. There's all these weird people around.

And three year shoot.

Yeah. In the jungle.

Yeah.

Literally using helicopters from the army and was saying that one time the army had to take the helicopters back because they. There's rebels and there was oh, my.

God, there's another movie.

They had the whole scene rigged. They had. The. The river was rigged with explosives. They're ready to film the scene. And they were like, no, we need our helicopters back.

Holy fuck, man.

We need to go kill some people.

Old school movie making. No.

Wow, man. I mean, if you could go back in time to be on the set of any movie ever, what would it be?

Damn. I mean, I've got to. I had dinner with Gibson one night. Mel Gibson. And I've worked with what's his. Brennan, Glen. So maybe Braveheart. That was a big one for me.

That was a big one.

Yeah.

Boy, that was. I mean, it made everybody want a sword fight afterwards. Something up. Totally get out of that movie.

Truly. God, that one was big. What a movie.

Freedom at the end.

I mean, come on. Or when they. When the. When he. The king pulls his h. He pulls the. The helmet off the king and he sees he's fighting for the other side. And then you cut to Gibson as those fucking blue eyes that are trying. He's trying to register that it's the king, his king. And that moment for me was just like, oh, my God.

Yeah.

Just beautiful.

Yeah. Mel Gibson can make a fucking movie.

He really can. He really can.

You know, I watched again recently Apocalypto.

Amazing. Same, by the way.

Not. It's a blockbuster movie that. Where no one speaks English.

Yeah.

Y.

And no big movie stars.

Yeah, no big movie stars. No one speaks English. It's amazing.

It is.

And he used, like, real people that lived there.

Yeah. Good for him, man.

Good for him.

What a swing.

Yeah, he's a fascinating guy. Like, his brain is like. He's just rattling all over the place all the time. First time he's on the podcast, he had a pen and he couldn't stop clicking it.

Oh, God.

Like, the entire time. Click, click, click, click, click, click. You crazy person. Put the pen down. Oh, man.

That was a cool dinner, though. He told me some stories of Braveheart, of just riding the horse to all these cameras. Like, ripping the horse to one camera, seeing the shot, going to the next, seeing the shot going in, doing the speech, going, looking to playback, just like. And then he's, like, falling asleep standing up. He was so tired. Like, that's, like, epic stuff. And talk about realism. Like, those fights. Oh, no. Still holds up.

Yeah.

That soundtrack. Come on.

That was an incredible movie.

Like, my dad played the bagpipes. He played actually in the World Championships in 95 in Scotland. Really? Yeah.

From Canada.

Yeah.

Went to Scotland. Yeah. Wow.

And then he. So the pipes, to me, like, I remember he was an alcoholic and not a lot. He wasn't around a lot and he. I remember some of my best memories was like, you know the sound of the pipes when you're putting air in, it's the worst sound in the world. It's like a rabbit, like getting bludgeoned. And we would be at Christmas at all my cousins, his side of the family, and he would walk downstairs and you could hear this. These fucking pipes getting air put in. In. And you could tell he had a few. And he was. He would come up and stand in the middle of the living room and just rip the pipes. And everyone's just like, full stop and just beautiful. And he'd play in. In Barbados. He worked in Barbados doing a lot of like the. The pavers, the golf pass. And he would play at funerals. And when.

How did he do in the world Championships?

I don't know. That's a good question. But it's a great story. So primeval. I was fly fishing in the Madison at just West Yellowstone. I had four days off, so I went home to Bozeman. Was fly fishing only my favorite spot on the. In West Yellowstone. My bro calls me and he's. And I'm like, I just caught like a 20 inch rainbow or something. And I'm ripping into my brother being like this. I'm killing it. The rod's on fire right now. And he's like, ah. So my dad raced cars as well. And his race car name, or we called him Gooey growing up. And he's like, Gooey's got 48 hours to live. And I was like, ah, fuck. All right. Literally, just verbatim like that. Like, I saw him the last 19 years. I saw him twice. And one time was in Montana and he had early onset dementia. And my brother drove him down great stories there. But so I drive. I take to my adventure van, drive up to Kelowna, my hometown, and I've got this big beard from Primeval. And I hadn't talked to one of my brothers in years. And then I was still close with the oldest and get to the hospital and he's.

I turn his wheelchair around and I'm like, hey, hey, Gooey. And he's like, who the are you? Whoa. Yeah. And he's on like oxygen. And I'm like, I'm your youngest son. And he's like, what are you doing here? And I'm like, I'm just here to say hi and hang out for a Couple days. And he was, like, on point. Like, his brain was going. And. And it was a little like, I hadn't seen my one bro forever.

So how long had it been since you'd seen him before that year?

A couple years? Yeah. Probably two years.

And is it dementia that he didn't recognize you or the beard?

No, the beard. It was the beard. And I was limping with that fucking toe. And so we go up to his room. This is a Friday at noonish. And he's great, though. Like. So we had this young doctor, he's like 40, great guy. I go and sit down with him, he's like. I'm like, dude, he's dialed, like, what do you mean he's gonna die? Like, he's on point and he's like, this is what happens sometimes when somebody like this, he doesn't know he's dying, but he is once, like, all three of us brothers, all three of his sons were there. And it's like a high and everything. He's just dialed into it all and just very present because everybody's there. Yeah. And he's like. The doc is like, man, I have a feeling all three sons haven't been together with him. And I'm like, in 25 years. And so we were all there, and I had my assistant back in Santa Fe, and I was like, hey, my dad played for Kelowna Pipe Band. And I was like, call her. I'm like, you gotta help me here. Get a piper. And to come play for him at the hospital.

And she's like, on it. And she was great. And the next. The next or Friday night, I'm like, gooey, what do you want for breakfast? And he's like, give me something I shouldn't have. Give me, like, a Costco muffin and. And a stupid amount of whipped cream and a coffee. And so, of course, I go overboard and bring him this ridiculous. The big chocolate chip muffin and the coffee. And the next morning. But he had gone from, like, dialed to. He's hurting. And so we got this piper to come. We fucking. We're not allowed to do this. We bring him out in the courtyard, and the piper comes and he's asleep, and she's like, what do you want me to play? Like, they know of my dad, that he had played for the Kelowna Pipe Band, and. And I'm like, I don't know many songs, and I just. Obviously. Amazing Grace and stuff like that. And so she just rips it. And he wakes up and we're all Buckled emotionally, right? Because this whole. The pipes to us is just like, that's our father. That's like our only memory. One of our only memories for him.

So she plays two songs, and he's falling asleep again. And he wakes up and he's. And I'm like, gooey, you got one more song. And he's like, okay. He was a mama's boy. Loved his mom, and. And she was amazing. And he's like, play one for my mother. So I think at that point, he knew he was about to go see her. And. Yeah. So we have all this on video and. And his brother was there and his wife and his best friend growing up. And so we fucking. The nurse comes out after the pipes. They're not obviously. The whole fucking hospital can hear this. And so we're obviously got caught. And she's like, bring him up now. And so we're like, yes, yes, ma'. Am. So we fucking have him in his bed. And you know those like, wheelchair ramps? It's like a hard 90 degree. He's out. He's sleeping. And my middle. I'm the youngest of three boys. My middle brother. Bro's big. And then my other bros, like, six, two. Big boy, too. And we're. We got him. And we're stuck in that turn. So now it's like Weekend at Bernie's. And this is like a pain movie where it's like, he's.

I'm like, hey, Gooey. Stuck, boys. He's stuck. We can't get over this corner because the bed's too long. And we're dying. Like, we needed a laugh. And so I look down and Gooey's arm is like, fucking crooked, jammed in that bar.

Oh, no.

So I'm like, oh, whoa, whoa, back up a bit. So we back. Loosen up. And it's like, it's not broken. But we. He didn't feel any of this shit. So we're like crying, laughing, because it's like a Weekend at fucking Bernie. It's our dark humor, man. You gotta laugh in those moments.

Yeah.

And. Yeah, because we were just buckled 10 minutes earlier. Get him to the room. And he's in and out sleeping. And the next day, on Father's Day, I had. I had to drive back to Bozeman. And we have dark humor. And so everyone's in the. In the room. And I'm like, all right, get the out of this room. Everybody. Like. Like a joke. But the nurses are like, oh, my God, what happened? And I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. It's a joke. I just want 10 minutes with him and then I gotta go. I gotta go back to work, but I'm gonna say goodbye. And so they leave and he's like kind of in and out of consciousness. And he would wake up and look right through you. Like he's trying to be with you or present or. I don't know. That's kind of how I took it.

It.

And he's fighting consciousness, I guess. And small little side note, I was driving and the shaman who was helping me for Primeval, he texted me once I got into Canada. And he was like, hey, I had a dream. You gotta call me. And I'm like, I don't know if I believe this stuff, but I. I'll call you. And so I call him and he's like, hey, something's up. And I'm like, I've told three people that my dad's going. And he's like, I had a dream that you're about to lose someone. I don't know if they're close to you. And I hate calling. This is a crazy call, but I'm gonna listen to this. And I'm like, man, I'm on my way to say goodbye to my dad. He goes, okay, that's what it is. Yeah. And how weird is that? Yeah, what is that? I know. I don't know what that is. I'm still. And he's like, how. Tell me about your dad. What. What kind of guy was he? I'm like, not very present. He drank a lot and, you know, some regrets, of course, and this and that. And he goes, okay, I'm gonna set up an altar and pray for him.

And this is what I think is gonna happen. He's not gonna cross over very easily because of the life he's lived. And so when I'm one on one with my dad, I started the conversation. I'm like, gooey. It's me. And out. And he had soft hands. That's one thing I remember. So I grabbed his hand. And our humor. I'm like, yeah, these are a little soft, gooey. Like maybe you should have worked harder. Like no calluses, like nothing. Just, you know, just trying to. And then I went into like the non profit, and I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna try and give back and this and that. And I promised him and. And during that conversation, he would try and like be conscious. And he was fighting to be there, present.

Yeah.

But he was, I think, gone.

Yeah.

And then two hours I left and Then on the way home, my bro called, and he had passed on Father's Day. And then. Then I was back to work on Tuesday, riding Banana bread.

Wow.

My horse. Yeah. With, like, Shea Wiggum, who's an amazing actor. He played Jim Bridger in that. But, yeah, Pete was great with me.

Did that help you, like, hold a feeling of loss for your. Your character?

I think it. I mean, how crazy. Art Simulating life and vice versa. I'm playing a guy. Morning. And then all of a sudden, like, my father, who I didn't really have died, but it's still your dad, you know, And. And Pete was like, hey, this. You know, do you want to ride banana bread into this. Into this shot or walk them or. And I'm like, I'll ride him in. And I was doing a scene with Shea Wiggum, and it was beautiful because I was upset that some knew that it's my news to tell, you know, but some had already knew the crew. So I was a little rattled at that when I got to set because everyone was very fragile with me, which I understand.

Right.

But I was like, whoever told you guys, it's not your story to tell, it's mine if I want to share it with the crew or whoever. But. So I was a little upset on set, but then a lot. It was so beautiful, man, because a lot of these older guys on set would just come up and be like, man, my father was this guy to me, this guy. But, you know, I just. I feel you. And they would share all their father stories. So it was a beautiful experience. And Pete was great, and Betty Gilpin was amazing. And that scene, I just buckled, like, walked away from the Fort Bridger, and I just was pretty emotional. And Pete was, like, amazing. And then we shot the scene. He's like, go home. And then I got to my trailer, and literally, to the minute of when I went down, that was the minute he got cremated. Wow. Yeah. And then. But I do think it. It was really cathartic to be playing that guy. And then I had a beautiful sweat after, and I mourned him the right way, you know, it did knock me, though, for, like, I'd say six months after.

I was like, what am I doing? Am I doing everything? Or enough? Am I living my life enough? Because even if he's not in your life, you're still, like, to witness that is. It was heavy.

Yeah.

But I had mourn him. Right. And, you know, I'm in a good spot now. But it was an interesting thing of. You just take stock I guess I've never lost somebody close to me, especially in that way. So, yeah, it was just a. A blessing to be still on set working and doing that.

Yeah. Sometimes you just need to appreciate people and sometimes it takes a loss before you appreciate others. Sometimes it's just like you just get too used to people. You get used to them being around. You take them for granted.

Yeah.

And then if they're gone, you just.

That's, you know what, Joe? That's what I was fucking literally saying. He's just gone.

When I was just like that, lived in New York at a best friend that was a drug addict and he was a crack addict at one point in time. And then later he started getting into harder stuff like opiates and.

Yeah.

And he died of an overdose. And I moved to LA in 94. But, you know, we stayed friends, we hung out. He would come out to visit me, I'd go to visit him. But he was always fucked up. He was always. Came to my house once, detoxed. I didn't know that that's why he wanted to come to la, but he came to LA and he was just so sick. He just laid in bed for four or five days.

Brutal.

And then, you know, a couple days later, I had to go back to New York, but he died of an overdose. And another buddy of mine that I'm good friends with called me up that we were. We were all tight together and called me up and it just never made sense. I was like, how is he not here? Yeah, how has he gone? Like, it just. It just me up where I knew he was gonna die. I knew it was gonna happen, but I couldn't believe it happened. And then, you know, you got to go back to work.

I know.

Back to life, you know, just. And you feel so. Like a piece of you missing.

Yeah.

Like the world doesn't make sense. Truly, person isn't in the world anymore. It's so hard to imagine until it actually happens. So abstract almost.

And like you said, even if, like, I had. I had enough time to understand, he was going.

Right.

But when they're gone, it's just totally different.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then you just take stock and you're like, okay. I go, am I doing enough? Am I.

Whatever it is, tell people you appreciate them sometimes. Yeah, that's. Sometimes, that's all.

And forgave them.

Yeah.

Like, I didn't hold. I wasn't that, son. That was like, fuck, where were you? Why didn't you do this for me? Blah, blah, blah.

I was who he is.

Yeah. Yep. And you learn that as you get older.

Yeah. People are who they are. And some people also. They grew up with monsters. That's the other problem. If you try to pretend that, you know, your parents should have their together because you have your together and they were your parents. No. Well, who raised them? They were raised by people living in the Depression.

You know what I mean?

They were raised by animals.

Yeah.

Like.

Yeah.

We've only been. Been truly civilized, truly humans. I've only been truly civilized for the last few decades.

Truly.

I think most of history is just horrific barbarism. It's just slaughter and crime and repeat and repeat over and over and over again until we developed the ability to communicate how bad that is.

And it doesn't fix it.

It fixes it a little. It makes it a little better. But still, even today, you know, there's.

But the pipes. So every time I hear the pipes, I'm like, ah, it gets you. Yeah.

Oh, I'd imagine.

Now I do want to go to Scotland.

Scotland's beautiful.

Yeah. I haven't.

I've been there a few times. Love it. Yeah, I love it. People are very cool. And it's not overcrowded. And if you can get past the rain, which is kind of a good break every now, especially if you live in la.

Yeah, yeah.

It's a good break to see rain everywhere where the, like, good luck. Start over. Fire out there.

Yeah, yeah. Right. You know, and they're going to the Highlands, maybe take a motorcycle trip or. I do want to go and watch those world championships. Oh, yeah.

Oh, the Highlands.

So the guy I hired up, three pipers for his funeral.

Oh, wow.

And I pull in. I got this on fucking video. And I pull into the parking lot, a little church in the middle of my town, and they're doing the fucking. Putting the air in the bag. And I was like, this time it crushed me. And I took a video from my truck and I went out, introduced myself. And he's like, you're not gonna fucking believe this. And I'm like, he's older guy. And he's like, I played next to your father at the world Championships.

Wow.

Wow. Like, just randomly, this is the guy playing the funeral. Wow. And he was amazing. And he stayed a while. And then it was like this little church. You go into this little gymnasium kind of spot. And he stayed and played in the. In the back. And some of my. That I didn't know, but some of his. My dad's favorite songs. So I have those on video. Too. But it was just beautiful.

Wow.

Yeah. And it brought all three boys back together, you know, now we're on good terms. It's been super cathartic. I was the only one to speak at the funeral, and I'm in the. The pew, and it's his sister, who I hadn't seen in a decade, and my two brothers and their kids, and my oldest is just a puddle. He's just. He's wearing sunglasses and just a mess. And the priest was actually quite great. He was funny, and. And then my other brother was in front of me, and he was a puddle. And he doesn't like speaking, and I don't either. As me, I. I get a little nervous or whatnot. I'm always good to. If I'm in character or hiding behind something. But the priest was like, okay, now's the time to say something. And the whole church is just like. And I look at Damon, my other brother, Brody, and then Damon looks back at me. Priest looks at me. He's like, now's the time.

Oh, so you just had a side. It was you?

Yeah. And then my Auntie Lee just squeezed my hand. I'm like. I'm saying something, aren't I? She's like, yes, you are. So I get up, and I just said, you know, if there's any light to. To this whole situation, it's that all three us of us brothers are. Are back on great terms now.

Oh, that's great.

Yeah, that's great. Great.

That's cool.

Yeah. Yeah. And then right.

Right back to primeval.

Yeah, right back to primeval. Go get on banana bread. Take it out on those.

Man.

Yeah. What a trip. What a trip.

Yeah. That is a. That's a crazy experience, man. When you were doing the Koresh thing, like, what was the thing that you up the most about playing him? About even preparing to play him?

Trying to root him emotionally to those circumstances that were so foreign. Like, the emotional beats of, like. I just didn't understand it. I didn't understand how someone could do what he did. And then he was very woe as me. Like, he played the victim incredibly manipulatively well. And I would always say he's like a great coach in. And he would. A great coach would be like, with you. He could train you and push certain buttons, but then he'll do something totally different with someone else and incredibly manipulative. So I think just trying to root that and understand, like, I. I don't think I'll ever understand some of the actions, obviously, to that Level like how someone can do that, but it is all out of fear and insecurity and trauma. Like that part of it. I did understand. And memorizing the Bible is a defense mechanism because when he's with there was over 20 theologians that would get on the call with him. And if you and I listened to child protective service calls, obviously all the Nesner calls, which was the played by Michael Shannon, who's amazing. And. And every time he got his back to the wall and they had a point or had something or had a level up on him, he would go right into Bible speak, which nobody could keep up with him on.

So he would gain that upper hand. And I would just go into a fucking dialog about a dragon with one eye is about to come and show its face and bare its teeth and take the children. Like, what the fuck do you say to that? You know, if you're on the call.

Right, right.

And you're trying to have a rational conversation of like, let the children out.

Right.

We want these kids out. And he goes right. And he just goes into this Bible speak. You're like, there's no real rebuttal to that.

Right.

And that was. He did this with child protective services too do on those calls he would just go, right. And that was such an anchor to him because nobody could play a card like that. Right.

Because as soon as you say words from the Bible, you're right. You have to be right. And he's married, quoting the Bible.

Yeah.

And you're going to argue with me. You're arguing with the Bible.

Right.

It's trump card.

Truly.

Yeah, truly.

And he would go to like Oxford and have debates with. With theologians in the classes. And that's how he recruited a lot of people that he would win these debates and they would come and join. Come to Texas. Like really like he would write these letters to people and send tapes to Australia and get them to come. Wow. Yeah. Like this was incredibly smart guy like that. You have to give to him that.

Isn'T it so up that someone with a brain that works that well would choose to use it in that way.

All just fear. I mean, even the way like he's talking about God and the end of days and how he needs to bear. I think around 22 children that are going to go up with him and ride a cloud up there and all these crazy things. He had the answers to aliens.

What was that answer?

I can't remember. But people I do want to know know the. To your point though, it's like he ended up shooting himself in the head. Right. Which ironically, you don't go to heaven if you do that. Which is. But also, like, he does all this shit and I don't know, just. That was a big thing for, like, Paul Sparks and I, who played my right hand man of, like, when we shot that death scene. Of like, man, like, I do wish, to your point, he was still alive and we could learn, you know, all these guys, they end this like they drink the Kool Aid in the bed or the, like. It's such a fascinating perspective that I do wish we could break that down and maybe learn something from this than just him shooting himself in the head and burning a. Burning in the house.

What you could learn. What you could learn, like, especially after the event, like the raid on the compound and everything, like, what?

Right?

All the people are dead. Like, what could you learn from that guy? Then he's gonna be so up.

Yeah. I mean, nine people survived that. One of the survivors, Thibodeau, was there with us, his drummer. Oh, wow. Every day. Whoa. And. Yeah. And what did he say?

He was like.

It goes back to your point that he still was thinking that he's coming back.

Oh, my God.

Yeah. Wow. So he. I know. And this didn't come out until our last week of shooting because I got along incredibly well with him and he did give us. He did write a great book and give me insight to moments that I asked to be in the show. But, I mean, he was going to, I don't know, to North Dakota or the Dakotas to. Someone had blueprints for an alien warship, and he was going to see these blueprints. And we're just in between takes. We're in between takes sitting in our set chairs and me and Paul Sparks, and we're like, hey, what are you doing after this, after we wrap? And he went on and told us he was going to look at blueprints to this warship, and we're like, okay, copy that. Yeah. So those are the type of guys, though, that wind up in Cult.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sweet, man.

Like, very helpful. Was great to us and was very open. But, I mean, a lot of majority of people are followers, right? So.

Well, there's a lot of people out there that have brains that don't really work that way.

Well. Right.

Just truly, that's just how it goes.

Yeah.

It's a very unfortunate roll of the dice, but yeah, your. Your brain does not let you navigate through life very well. And you need someone to hold your hand and tell you what to Do. Even if it's completely illogical.

Yeah.

And those people wound up becoming followers.

Yeah. I think it was the new light. He called it the new light. This is a while ago, but I think it was the new light. He. Dave woke up and he got all. Everyone together, and he's like, I just have had a word with God, and it's the new light something. And it's where I'm gonna. I'm the only one now that is going to sleep with the women. And this guy named Norm. I think he was Australian or. Anyways, this guy was like, that. I'm out. And, like, 20, 30 people left, but a lot stayed.

A lot stayed.

Yeah.

Yeah. You're always going to get people that stay, and then they think that if they stay, he'll like them even more now.

Yeah.

And those other losers who are in the way of them getting attention from Dave now. I'm going to be tighter. I'm staying that.

Yeah.

I'm team Koresh. You can. My wife, bro.

Jersey on nuts. It is, man. It is.

It's a weird, weird thing that people have, like, encoded in us to look for a leader.

I know.

Very strange.

I know.

You know, I think it's just from tribal DNA. That's what I. Yeah, that's a good point.

I never thought about that.

If when we were groups of like, 150 people, the only way we could survive, you got to listen to the wisest, most experienced person, and that's the tribal leader. That's how it always was. It was the greatest warrior, the one who knew where the fish were, the guys. Guy who knows what you're supposed to eat, not eat, and where the danger is. And that guy's gonna help you, keep you alive. And we always have that in everything. We have it in businesses we have. There's always, like, us one top monkey.

Yeah.

The top of the carrot.

Yeah, it's carrot.

It's weird, but you see it in chimpanzees, too, man. It's crazy. It's a primate behavior. They're all. They'll. All those chimpanzees, they have a tribe leader.

Yeah.

They have one guy who's the top champ.

Yeah.

He's running. It's weird, man. It's like it's encoded in us. And so for people that aren't that smart, someone like David Koresh can totally exploit that and go, I am the leader. You're like, wow, I'm so glad I met you. I was lost without you. You are found now.

Yeah.

My son. You are found. And also, like, that guy's so confident.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

I'm not confident.

Yeah. You did say tanks were coming and they're here. So literally, that was a big moment. That was a big moment. Moment. Wow. Yeah.

That must have been the seven seals.

He was rewriting the seven seals. His final days. Oh, boy. I know.

The whole raid on the compound thing is nuts. It is like when you see the fire coming out of the tanks, you're like, what did you guys do?

Yeah. There's a guy that ironically was Dick de Guerin, his lawyer, and he was speaking in Santa Fe when we were shooting this. So I'm like, full stop. We're going to hear Dick de Guerin speak.

He's speaking about Waco.

He's speaking about his experiences as a lawyer. Wow. And he did. And I went and introduced myself and there's a crazy story. It was Dave's mom who called him and was like, this is what's happening. Would you go help? Blah, blah. He was on a fishing trip, I think, and he's like, yeah, I'm gonna go. So he showed up to the compound on the perimeter that was set, and he's like, I'm that guy's lawyer in that house. You need to take me over there. FBI puts him in a tank, and he goes to the front door in a tank and the door has this big pm. I've tried getting this in the. In the show, and we couldn't, but. So there's a big piano at the front door blockade. Dave wasn't allowed to walk by the windows. All this kind of stuff.

Stuff.

This is deep into the 51 day standoff. And Dave's right hand man and played by Paul Sparks and another, his lawyer, Harvard grad, I think answer the door. And Dick's like, oh, I see the bullet holes in the ceiling. Couple bodies that the ATF weren't. Didn't allow you to take out. You got a case here. But where's Dave? And they show him the house and all this kind of stuff. And so they're back in the foyer and the piano's against the wall and they're talking and he's like, okay, I don't. I want to help, but I don't know where Dave is. And he's leaving and he's like, you got a case? And the right hand man just goes, dave was in the fucking piano listening to this whole thing.

What a psycho.

And so he got back in the tank and Dave got briefed of their walk through there. And Anyways, Dick De Geeran was his lawyer on that. What a fucking story, though.

How crazy.

And I wanted to be in that piano and shoot that. Yeah, that would have been unbelievable.

Yeah, that would have been an important part.

I know. Yeah.

Important part of the story.

It really is.

That's how nuts he was.

Yeah.

Hid in the piano.

So scared to get shot or didn't trust anything. But those guys, apparently in that. In that tank, they were, like, ripping Dick DeGurin and, like, spitting on them and doing this kind of. Because they're like, you do know they just killed a bunch of ATF guys in that shootout as well. And you're gonna go fucking be this guy's lawyer. Fuck you. Yeah, yeah. Right?

So. But the thing, like, what started off the feud, I don't even remember, like, who. How did bullets wind up flying?

Yeah. So it was. Dave had. He was selling, like, homemade bulletproof vests and was, like. Had these. I know. And the ATF were kind of spiraling out, like their funding was about. They were about to get defunded, and they needed a win. They needed it. What was it? The Ridge Ruby. Yeah. There you go. So they dropped the ball huge on Ruby Ridge, right? Yeah. So. Which is at the very beginning of Waco. And they needed a win here. Find a cult leader into weapons, selling ammunition, I think, and bulletproof vests and this kind of stuff. And this guy's got these kids, and all this is perfect. And that started it of just like, we're gonna go get this guy. And there's a famous tape that we put in the show, too, where Dave was like, you know, why didn't you just like, he did this run all the time and was kind of just out and about, working on the house, running around. He had a go kart track around the. The compound. And he's like, why wouldn't you just arrest me when I'm on a run, when I'm on this or that? But they needed a lot of press and they needed to get funded again.

So they made this a spectacle. And then it turned into what you saw. Like, they were. They wouldn't let fire trucks come and take that fire out. That's a fact. And then they're playing that music of animals being, like, mutilated into the compound. Yeah. Then they were flying the ATF flag. I asked for that to be put in, but we didn't put it in. But they're flying the ATF flag while it was burning down. Yeah, it's legit. Wow. Crazy, man.

Wow. They Needed a win in.

Yeah. And then that's so dark. I know, I know. Picture I35 right here. Tanks and all these armored trucks, everything going down I35. It's incredible. You know, and they're just sitting right in front of. Of the house at 51 days is crazy.

That is crazy.

Yeah. Wow. I know.

It's just hard to believe that they would do that. But then you, you read the Ruby Ridge thing.

Yeah.

They shot a woman while she was holding her baby.

Yeah. The kid in the back, I think. Yeah, yeah. The dog.

Kid, dog. Yeah. And for what?

I know.

For what?

For nothing. I know.

Yeah. It's weird, man. It's weird. You could. You could be an assassin and for the government.

Yeah.

And even just think you're just doing your job. But it's like this is. Seems pretty criminal, guys.

It's a lot. It's a lot.

It's just hard to believe that they would.

77, six people died. The video is 20. 20 something kids driving over the house.

Tank and shooting fire into it. Like. And then they denied doing that. They denied doing that with the tank shooting fire. But you could, you could watch it.

Yeah.

You could watch the fire come out of the tank.

Yeah.

It's horrible, man.

I know. What a role.

So when you get out of that role, would you stop playing that guy, man? How long does it take for you? You go back to being you?

Probably. I bet you a month, six weeks till you shed it. Yeah. Yeah. Go do something that makes you feel you and alive. Motorcycle ride something. Get the out.

Do you like dream of that guy?

Yeah. Not anymore.

But you did.

Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Your subconscious. It's funny because it's like that's. You marry yourself emotionally to said circumstance. And so my subconscious, and I'm sure a lot of actors will say it's like you're wide open open and so you're more vulnerable. I'm way more emotional. And so because you just do the work and you're just. Your subconscious is open. So it might. Your dreams. Once I start dreaming a little crazy, visceral stuff, that's when I know I'm getting closer for sure. Wow. Yeah.

Like you're getting haunted a little bit. It takes six weeks to detox you.

Yeah.

And exercise the ghost.

And then it's like you play this guy. You know what's crazy was acl and I was walking and prepping for Waco and randomly out of nowhere, this guy is talking about Waco and that it never happened. Like, this is so random. And I was with my buddy who's out there, and I was like, holy.

What the.

We got to do this story now. Like, there's people out there that believe that it's just one conspiracy theory that never happened.

That's so.

And I was like, what?

There's people that believe everything, though.

I know.

If you could figure out the conspiracy, there's a whole group of people on Reddit dedicated to it.

Yeah. Yeah.

You're late to the party. Any conspiracy, just fill in the blank there. There's a bunch of people think space is fake. It's a whole online community of people that don't believe in space. Yeah. Okay. There's people that believe a lot.

Big.

Yeah.

Just. Just to say that alone just feels like. Sorry.

Yeah. It's people that, like, flat Earth is not crazy enough. They want to take it to the next level. The next level is space doesn't even exist.

Okay.

You know, that's all.

You know when you get older and people will just straight up, like, when they talk at you telling you false shit.

Right?

You're like, okay, usually I'll bite and be like, you're an idiot. It. This is what is actually happening. But no, now it's like, all right, sometimes. Get it out.

Exhausting, though. You just.

I know. Shut. I know.

That's so fake.

Y. But they, like, double down, triple down on it.

Yeah.

Yeah. I just had one of those moments.

Used to be a lot more of those people before the Internet.

I know, man. That's a dangerous game.

Yeah.

I don't read. Which is really helpful. Me.

Oh, yeah.

It really, like, it's very healthy. Yeah, it is. Like.

Yeah.

I don't read any reviews.

Good for you.

Any of that. I learned the hard way, man. I got hammered on John Carter. That put me in a dark spot, but. Yeah. Had to rebuild everything. But. Yeah. That you're down that tunnel and you're just like. Like, they're not. Just like, he's a bad actor. It's like, this guy's should die.

Yeah. You're a terrible person. Yeah. It's nuts personal. Be better if you were never born. Like, whoa, Damn. I know you're just trying to write a saucy article, but. Holy.

That's a lot of sauce.

Lot of vitriol there.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's weird, man. People. But that's. You know, they like doing that to people they don't know.

It's zero accountability. It's so easy.

And now because of social media, anybody can do it.

It. Yeah.

I never used to hear people's opinions.

Yeah.

If you had a movie in 1979, the general public either went to see it or did not.

Yeah.

And it was like a word of mouth thing. And then there was like Siskel and Ebert and whoever else is reviewing stuff, the five other reviewers. That was it. And if the New York Times said it was good, you'd go see it.

Yeah, yeah.

But now it's like everybody negative always beats. Oh, yeah.

You get more clicks on a negative hit. And then, you know, that was the beauty of like Friday Night Lights. Like, I never. There weren't reviews really. And I was just. We didn't have social media. We're in Austin. No real producers on set or writers. We're kind of. Pete, set it up. So great. And you're just going there, slinging, trying, failing, trying again. It was such an amazing experience without all the extra.

Yeah.

Without any of the weight of like, is this going to be successful? Yeah. What does that even mean now? You know?

Yeah, they. Well, do they still do focus groups when they do a film? Yes, they still.

Definitely. Yeah.

So that's kind of like a small Internet.

Yeah. Yeah, it is, kind of.

Because you're like, well, who are these people? Yeah, they might be like, you went to 200 hom. Yeah, like, by the way, I like Oklahoma. But there's certain spots where, you know, like, if you wanted to tank a movie, you do a focus group and you know, some community where everybody's on fentanyl.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You guys watch this movie through half.

But I don't like that guy's hat.

It's. Did they get paid? Is that like a job?

No, that's a good question.

I bet they do. I bet they do. Which is. Then you have to factor in. Okay, what kind of a person is getting paid to do focus groups? They, they might be a failure. They might be a really dull witted, dull minded person and they get to decide the direction of this movie.

And like, I don't like the ending. Yep, reshoots. $20 million reshoots.

40% of the audience said they didn't like the ending. 40% of the audience wouldn't pass a piss test.

Yeah, true. Even like John Carter was like one of the highest tested movies in Disney's history and we got hammered, obviously. But it's like, I don't know how much that moves the needle or anything.

I think people distrust the media more than they trust the media now. But if something sucks, like if a critic says it sucks, it still works.

Yeah.

If I see a one star review, like, oh, that movie supposedly sucks.

Yeah.

Like, I don't give it any other thought. Mm. Still does work. But if something's really good, people go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Six movie rules.

Yeah.

Like, look at Adam Sandler's movies. The critics always hate them. The audiences always love.

Yeah.

Always. It's the most Lobster Thousand. I know. It's crazy.

Yeah. His movie, such a sweet guy.

He's the best. He's the nicest guy of all time. And he's a great regular actor too. Uncut Gems was bananas, that movie. So much anxiety and like, don't do it. He played that guy, that gambling addict, so well, so believable.

Great directors, too.

Yeah. It's just.

It's great guy. Smart move.

But his comedies, I love his comedies. They're fun and I love that. I can watch with my kids.

Kids.

Like, he's got. They're funny. Like Jack and Jill is funny. It's silly and ridiculous. And Al Pacino's in love with his sister, who is him. It's funny, man. It's a funny movie. It's so stupid and silly. Yeah, but that's. But the critics hate those movies. They. Yeah, like, okay, what are you going to see? It's an Adam Sandler movie. This is really good at making this kind of movie. If you want to go see a fun, light hearted, silly movie, which we need a little more with a lot of heart. Heart to it.

Yeah.

His movies are the ones to go to.

Yeah.

But critics hate him.

Yeah.

They don't. It doesn't matter if people love it. That's what matters.

Yeah. I mean, Terminal is season one.

Yes.

We got hammered.

Yes.

And the people spoke, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It didn't matter.

That's why I'm here.

Yeah.

Like, that's why Dark Wolf is dark. We're doing it. You know, it's because people wanted to see why Ben is the way he is and made that decision.

Yeah.

If it didn't, there's no way we would have got that green lit. There's no way.

Well, because it's written by Jack, so. Jack Carr, who's a good friend of mine, who's an awesome human being and also a seal, and writes and had the goal. This is how crazy Jack is. Had the goal of first becoming a seal, getting military experiencing, and then becoming a great writer. Like, he had it in his head.

Did he really?

Yes. He always wanted to be a seal. He always wanted to serve. So he wanted to do Those things get real life experience. I mean, that guy has a love of history.

It's unbelievable.

Incredible love of history.

Walking encyclopedia.

He's so brilliant. And his recall is phenomenal. But imagine that kind of decision making. I'm going to be a seal. I'm gonna go get deployed, I'm gonna get military combat experience, and then. Then I'm gonna go write books. This is his.

That was his, like, eight bestsellers. Seven or eight.

And right out of the box. Terminalist. His first book is fucking incredible. It's incredible. But the guy prepared for it his whole life. Like, he's a voracious reader. Voracious reader, reads constantly, can recommend books constantly. He's always great about that. And so his first book out of the gate, it's like he'd been pairing for it his whole life. Life.

I mean, when he comes on to set and we're shooting this episode five, he came to Budapest. And his energy, like, he's like a kid in a candy store, man. It's like, I'm gassed out, tired and, like, just getting beat up. And here comes car, and it's just the light. It just brings an energy to that set that it's just like, man, we're so lucky to be here, here. And you're like, you know what? You're kind of right. We are.

Yeah.

And I just love that guy, man. Super supportive. Right. When I got the role.

Yeah.

He's like, not pressing me. He's like, I know you've played a SEAL before. If you want any of my notes, who Ben is, and he's like, if you want that long leash, here it is like, I trust you. Like, he's been nothing but amazing with me so far. So.

He's a brilliant guy.

He really is.

Yeah, it really is.

Super caring. Yep. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, just a great man.

Yeah.

Like a truly great man.

Yeah.

It's. It's so cool when a guy like that gets to write stories that really reflect the true lives that he led. And then he knows a lot of his friends lead, and it's real. It's like he has a. An understanding of it that obviously the success of his books and the success of the series, that understanding just translates in a way like, oh, this is very authentic.

Yeah. Even, like, little notes, man, I would get with the gun work and all that kind of. And obviously you listen, but it's just like he's. He comes at you of just more excitement and you don't take it personal. You can't. And you want to get it right when you have him and Jared Shaw, who's another seal, and Mendoza, who's a seal, and we got a. What, Army Ranger who writes a lot of it. Like, we're surrounded by these guys every day, so if they want. If anything is not authentic, you're. I mean, the bullshit meter is, like, fucking two feet away.

Right.

You know, and I love that, though, because they're doing a lot of my work for me, helping me, making me look like fucking Ben.

Right. You know, it's a complicated character, too.

Yeah. A lot of that stuff. Like, one of my best buddies is SEAL and had, like, 200 guys under him fought in Ramadi. And bomb specialist guy, wicked dude. And there's a moment in the CIA room in. In episode one that was written. And then I kind of. I've been hearing this from him for so long, and so it's kind of ingrained in me of just, like, how there's always someone to answer to, and you're never really getting the full transparent part of what they're putting you out for. So I'd heard all these stories for, like, the last. Since loan. I met him on loan. And. And so that scene, I was like, this is for you, man. I'm just gonna go and have at it with this CIA guy. And he was at the premiere and watched it and loved that beat. But it's like, I get to serve, you know, some of these guys that they don't get to have those moments.

Right. Right.

You know, and that's so fun for me to just go and light them up in that room. One of my favorite scenes.

Cathartic.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I steal from these guys, even, like. And I get it. I got hammered, or Ben got hammered for being the twist of season one. Right. I'm the guy who kind of orchestrated a lot of it. And. And I was talking to Marcus because I'm like, how the am I going to root this guy, this SEAL that's. That's, like, best friends with Reese. And now all of a sudden, the twist is like, man, I. I had a hand in this. I. I'm the guy that put you guys down that tunnel on that op, and your whole platoon died for the most part. And I just. Literally, it was like a little moment that I had with Latrell where he was talking about going back and dying with his boots on, and I was like, like, really settle into what that means. This warrior is just decidedly going to die over there, serving. It's beautifully tragic. And I was like, that is Where I hung my hat with Ben. Of, like, how I can root this crazy twist. Of like, I'm making this decision for you, but you're going to go die with your boots on instead of this.

You're going to die rotting in this hospital bed, no insurance, your family, all this kind of shit. I'm like, I'm gonna take that decision for you. So that's where I rooted Ben for season one.

Wow.

Yeah. And then I go and open the Mike Murphy museum with Dan and Marcus and a lot of other seals, obviously. And a lot of the seals were like, I get it. You know, But a lot of people just were like, how could you? And I get that part, too. But it was just like, all things are true. Yeah. Yeah. Truly.

Yeah. Both things are true. How could you and I. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a human being.

Yeah.

And, you know, that's. That's one of the reasons why the show is so interesting because, yeah, people.

Are super complex and how gray it all is.

Yep.

And how it goes back to, like, you're in mourning of a buddy. You. You broke this promise. His family's dead. And now I'm on an op and I get in front of the guy that killed this guy's family. I'm gonna put him down. This. I'll take the beauty of Ben, too, in this is he's accountable for it. Like, I'll take it, Take my trident. Then I do it all over again, which is a beautiful thing. And I think he does, like, it's. It's a very. It's an emotional reaction that, you know, phrase his life. And the other character, Rafe's character, he gets his trident taken. But it's. That's one thing we were talking about earlier of just, like, it's so fucking gray. And in these really split decision moments that you have. And these guys aren't robots out there. It's like they're emotional. They're fucking trained, like, better than anybody. But at times they have to make these decisions that is like. Like, okay, you're going to put those girls on the black market or sell them or put them in the sex trade. You don't get to live anymore. I'm going to do that.

But that's a beautiful thing, too.

Yeah. And people can relate to it because if you were in that scenario, what would you do? And most people would like to believe they would say, you're not going to live anymore.

Yes, exactly. We have these talks on set all the time on American Primeval. We can romanticize the 1850s. Or at least I did at the beginning of like, this guy's a mountain man. This is sick. Like, he's a. Like, if I. If you see me on the river in 1852 and you're like, I want your jacket, you're gonna just come up and kill me and take my jacket.

Yeah.

Like that's how up the 1800s were back then. Lawless. And so we started shooting and I was like, we're shooting at 10, 000ft up there and you're cold and we're still spoiled, obviously. Your trailer's 50ft away. But it's like this. I'm like, there's nothing in me that would want to be in the 1850s.

Nothing?

Nothing.

No. I can't believe people made it through.

I can't either.

It's hard.

I can't either.

And those people were living in the lap of luxury. Can people compared to people who lived.

4,000 years before, oh my God, 200 years earlier.

Yeah, it's nuts. I mean, it's like what we were talking about earlier civilization is super recent. I mean, it's not. Obviously there's ancient Egypt and all that stuff, but I mean, what we're dealing with right now is super recent.

Yeah.

Relative safety, relative security.

Yeah.

Relative. You know, I mean, do you.

Do you. When you go hunt your Utah back country, wherever you're going, you're going to be in the ship. It's going to be beautiful and quiet and like, I live for that.

Yeah. Well, that's why Montana is a great. It's a great place to hunt too.

Yeah.

And Montana is a truly wild place.

Yes.

I mean, outside of Bozeman, right? Yeah.

30. 30 minutes outside.

Yeah, 30 minutes outside. You've got like a truly beautiful, incredible. Un. Just un. If you've never experienced the mountains, like the true mountains, especially when there's some snow on the ground and the winds whistling around, it's like, it's majestic. It's like the most extraordinary work of art that nature created.

Yeah.

There's something about like mountains really, like, awe inspiring. It's like, wow.

Makes perspective sinks into you. You're in the moment.

And it's weird that very few people live near him.

I know, right?

You get there, when you get there, you're like, oh my God, I want to see this every day.

Then you're on a flight to New York in two days.

I lived outside of Boulder for a while.

Oh, beautiful.

And it was like that every day. It's like you're just driving through These mountains, like this is incredible.

Yeah.

Like this view that you have is like a vitamin.

It really is.

Stores your soul.

Yeah.

Look at this place. And it's. It's not a coincidence that people in mountain communities are chilled out.

Yeah, you're right.

It's not a coincidence. They're surrounded by this overwhelming majesty of nature and it's humbling.

Yeah, it is.

It makes you a little chiller.

Totally.

Yeah.

And I think for me too, it's so good for the brain for all those reasons. But also it's just like if I'm sitting around feeling sorry for myself or whatever it is, is bored. It's like it's your fault if you're bored out there.

Right.

There's a thousand hikes. Go get into wildlife, go to the national park, go for a walk, anything. Fix your perspective, truly. And it does, it does, it does. After intense role or whatever it is. Once I land in Bozeman, man, I get on the bike or whatever, go fly fish. It's like, it's, it's a beautiful thing.

And there's less people there, so it's like.

Yeah.

You don't feel the buzz.

Yeah. Relax. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just bought a 35 protein shake.

Before I came here in Austin.

Yeah, yeah.

What the is in it?

I look up. Yeah, it's like, I don't know, probably like koala DNA that's gonna give me hard for the next seven days or something.

Grass fed tallow. Yeah, yeah. How do they charge 35 bucks for a smoothie that seems?

I keep adding. I was adding.

You're adding proteins? Yeah.

Creatine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was like, what's happening? Yeah.

It's not Montana, but even Austin, like compared to where I lived before I lived in LA and living here is like, there's only 2 million people.

Yeah.

It's so much more.

Yeah, yeah.

Like what they think is traffic is adorable. Horrible.

Yeah.

Cute little trap man.

It's true. LA is insane.

It's just a terrible way to live.

Yeah, it really is.

Yeah. It's a terrible way to live.

Yeah.

And I think I get how people used to want to live there because it was the center of, you know, the TV business, the comedy business. But it's. It's not worth it.

No, no, it's not good. I mean, nothing's being filmed there anymore. It's rare. It's just weird, right? Yeah. That idiot.

How did that happen?

I don't know.

How did they that up?

I know.

How did you up the one Spot where everybody wanted to move to to be an actor. You up that spot?

Yeah. And they have everything.

Mountains, beaches, get to the mountains, to the shore. In two hours, you're. You're up in Big Bear, you're down in Santa Monica.

Two hours.

Yeah. It's nuts.

Studios, everything's there.

Yeah. And they it up.

Yep. Brutal. What the is happening?

I don't know.

I know.

I don't know. I'd blame politics, but I think there's a lot of other stuff going on too.

Yeah.

The people running. It probably takes exceptional people to have real vision and learn how to keep stuff together.

Yeah. I don't know.

I don't know either.

Not a big fan of LA. Yeah. Yeah. I lived here for 17 years. Did you love it here?

I did, yeah.

Yeah. I love the lake life.

It's nice.

It's fucking amazing.

It's a chilled city, too. It's like genuinely good people here.

Yeah, yeah.

There are normal people.

Yeah.

You know, in la, everybody is like a failed actor. Want to be an actor trying to get on a reality show looking to be a Tik Tok influencer.

Everybody's got something and they want something from you.

Always.

Always.

Yeah. And every connection they make is like a networking thing. Every new friend becomes someone who's an asset.

An asset?

Yeah, because, like, very transactional.

Yeah. Gross.

Yeah, it's gross.

Yeah.

Well, listen, brother, you're a very interesting guy and you got some awesome stories, and you're a really great actor. And so I've been a fan for a long time. Likewise. This was really fun.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

My pleasure, brother. Tell everybody one more time. Terminalist, Dark Wolf. It's available now on Amazon.

Amazon.

Which is great. And I know the terminal has killed it for Amazon.

Yeah. We're number one right now.

That's amazing.

Yeah, thanks.

That's awesome.

Thanks.

Great show. It's a great show. All right, my pleasure. Bye, everybody.