Transcript of #2383 - Ian Edwards

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train my day. Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

Sup, son?

How is it possible that you haven't been here in the five years I've been living?

Oh, it's been five years? Yeah, man.

It's been five years.

That's pretty crazy.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

That doesn't make any sense.

It doesn't. I like it though.

Thank you.

It's like it's got the sauna walls and shit.

It's very close to what the old one was. Instead of brick, we went with wood because we were kind of faking it with the brick in the old place.

It was fake brick.

It wasn't fake brick. It was real brick. But what they do is they take like a mesh and then they take real bricks and they slice them thin and then they put up the cement and they glue the real bricks in place. But it's not really a brick wall. It just looks like a brick wall. Real brick wall should only be the only brick wall that you show.

Right.

Like, I went to a pool hall the other day and they had a plastic brick wall. And I got deeply disappointed. Like, I touched it. I was like, oh, this is a fake brick wall. This is bullshit. This is plastic.

Yeah. I mean, it's a push to have like a half fake brick wall, but to have like a plastic brick wall, that's.

You're going to.

Did you just leave the pool hall like this place?

No, I did.

No, no.

I'm a junkie. But the. The brick used to bother me that it was fake brick at the other studio. I'm like, we're kind of bullshitting here.

Some people have like some comedy clubs or somebody fake a comedy spot. They'll have the. It's just a sheet. Yeah, like a. It's not a curtain, but a brick sheet. A brick sheet, bro. Just what you got back there? Just show that.

Just show whatever's back there.

Yeah.

It's weird how that became the backdrop for a comedy club. A brick wall.

Why?

It's a good question. I don't know when to start. Maybe started with Evening at the Improv. What was Evening at the Improv's backdrop? Was that a brick wall? It might have been that simple.

All right.

Cuz back in the 1980s, was it. Aha. Look at that. That's it. Ellen.

It makes me wonder if that wall is Ellen.

Look at that picture of Ellen. That's crazy. That's crazy.

Rock Adam Sadler.

Wow. Wow.

When I started doing Comedy. I used to go to the Comic Strip, and they had a brick wall, too. And to get on stage at the Comic Strip, you had to come the first Friday of every month and try to pick a number. And if you got a number, they had, like, a lot of things. There's like, all these open micas lined up down the street.

And then this is the dreadlocks. Ian's days.

This is pre dreadlocks.

You didn't have dreadlocks?

Nah, I might have had, like, twists and shit. Please don't find none of those photos.

How long have I known you?

Like, 30 years.

Yeah, we've known each other 30 years.

That's crazy.

Wow. We were little babies.

Yeah. Little babies doing the Boston.

Yep.

Yeah. It's crazy when I'm like. Like, how. Not how, but we just had no fucking idea.

Yeah.

Like how all this shit would turn out.

No idea.

Yeah.

With no idea even how it all worked.

Right.

You know, he just taking chances on stage, trying to figure out what's funny and then trying to get work. Trying to get work on the road.

Mm. I just knew once I had the inclination to do it, the moment I had the inclination to do it, I said, oh, I'm doing this for the rest of my life. Like that. Once that moment hit. So then all bets on everything else was off, and I just started just doing it and just doing it locally in Long Island. And then I remember seeing A and E at the Improv and seeing Chappelle on there. And I noticed that all the comics on Long island that used to, like, be ahead of me and host the shows that I was doing the mics on and headlined all weekend. Excuse me. All weekend in Long island, none of those comics were on tv. So I was like, I gotta get to Manhattan. Like, all the comics that were on TV were in Manhattan.

I felt the exact same way. Living in Boston, all these guys I knew that were so funny, but none of them were on tv. Yeah, but the thing is, like, I knew that the people that were on tv, then they could go anywhere. Once you're on tv, then you could go to Kansas, you could go to Miami. You can go anywhere. But if you weren't on tv, man, nobody was gonna come pay to see. It was a risk.

Yeah.

You know, you're out with your wife, you got a date night. Like, take a chance on this. I don't know. Look at his face, his stupid dreadlocks.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I was on tv. Fan.

It's weird, though, right? Like, nobody. Nobody knew. Nobody.

I Feel like we knew, though, like, inside, like, we had some type of blueprint because we'd seen, like, successful comics.

Yes.

But to go from, like. So. And I came here, moved to America, 17 from Jamaica. So I. When I started watching TV, I didn't know anybody on TV.

Oh, wow.

You know what I'm saying? I didn't know anybody on tv.

So, like, what? Do you remember the first shows you saw?

First shows? Well, we have American shows on TV in Jamaica. We had one channel back then. Was it one? We had one, and then. So when I came here, I watched snl because Eddie Murphy was on that shit, so that was a requirement. I was always watching that.

Now I finally can figure out how old you are, because, you lying motherfucker, you won't tell anybody how old you are.

I don't lie. I just don't tell. It's two different things. It's two different things.

Right.

I might run past the question.

I tricked you with that Eddie Murphy line. He was only on for two seasons. I got you.

That's hilarious. Yeah, but I was five years old.

Was. Was Eddie Murphy on for two seasons or one season? I think he was on for two seasons, if I'm guessing. Doesn't say. Oh, more. Was he really? Oh, you got a little room for error.

I got a little room for error. Always got a little room for error. Come on, man.

So that's three years.

Yeah.

So you did the 84. Oh, you did the 81 and 84. Yeah. Okay. 80, 81, 82. So four seasons. So he put in his time.

Mm.

There's, like, you know, saying about Cam Patterson getting on SNL now.

Right.

He might be the first guy in a long time to become a movie star from that.

Yeah.

Because it kind of went away. Kind of went away. You know, the Mike Myers days and Phil Hartman and obviously Adam Sandler, and, like, everybody became a movie star. From David Spade, they all became movie stars. But then that kind of stopped, you know, and they kind of did it to themselves. All that woke. Like, they kind of. Like, they killed comedy movies or they.

Just pick somebody funny. Like, there's people they overlook all the time that we know are funny.

Yeah.

That could be on that show. So it's good that they picked Cam. I must say some positive, derogatory shit about Cam. That's number one. Let me just fuck Cam. Number one. Fucking. I remember the first time I saw Cam and I saw Cam, we were at. What's. What's. What's the. That room on six.

The Vulcan.

The Vulcan?

Yeah.

So I think I just did your room. Then I went to the Vulcan. And then they don't. And what's his name? Like, you're next. And then Cam was to the side, so then I knew he was next. It was like the unknown show. So then I bring him up and I watch him and then I had a tag for him and I said, I'm gonna give you this tag. After he got off stage, I'm gonna give you this tag, but it's only gonna make you better than me and you're gonna get picked up and advanced. I could just tell. I was angry and I loved him at the same time. You know, somebody just got it and. Yeah, this guy, they got it.

Yeah, you gotta celebrate it. You gotta celebrate it because we got into this as fans. You got in this fans. And if someone's funnier than you, you gotta go, God damn, he's funny. It'll inspire you to work.

Yeah.

And you can be funnier than you are, but you can only be so funny.

Yeah, but this. How crazy it got. So then two months later, I'm in la, I see him at the store and I said, what's up, man? You in town? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, yeah, I'm here with my manager. It's my manager.

Your manager's managing him? Oh, my God.

I was like, I knew it. I knew it.

Meanwhile, your manager's been ducking your calls. Sorry, I'm on a jet with Cam.

I'm on a jet with Cam.

Call you soon.

Yeah, all's great. But that's how close the parallels were. But that's. The motherfucker's funny, man. He makes it look easy.

He works hard.

Yeah, and he works hard.

He works hard. He's always working. He's always on stage. He does that one minute, one new minute of kill, Tony, every week. That's hard to do.

That's hard to do.

It's very hard to do.

Like, you have to sit down and work on shit.

You have to. I mean, the guys who excel at it, like Ari, Maddie, Hans, Kim, him. Those guys, like, they fucking work hard.

Yeah.

You know, and a bunch of people did it for years and years and years. Like William Montgomery is probably. He's. I think he's the longest running guy ever, right? But he's such a maniac. He can get a minute out of anything, right? You know, he get a minute out of coffee going and get some coffee. It's like a big part of what his comedy is, is just his personality. Which is great, you know, because he's kind of a character. He's such a freak that when he's on stage, kind of anything is funny.

Yeah. He, like. You know who makes me mad? Like, when you say that, I finally just see what will is. Because it's obvious to see what Cat Williams is like, and it's a part of him, and it's his voice, and it's like a. I call it a comedy cheat because I don't have it.

Right, right, right.

But, like, they're gonna talk. It's gonna be funny.

Funny.

Then if they add some writing to it, then you don't stand a chance.

Joey Diaz is the ultimate.

Yeah, there you go.

Joey Diaz is the ultimate version of that. That motherfucker is funny. The moment he grabs the ring gave him that. Just look at everything about him. Everything about him. He's just walking comedy.

Yeah.

And he's fearless.

Yeah. And he's fearless.

And so he's. He looks like that and he talks like that, and he gets on stage like, oh, it's over.

Yeah, it's all right.

It's like, you're such a force. Yeah. It's like, if you give your mind up to him, like, to think for me. Let me. Take me on a journey. Take me on a journey and think for me. But Theo's got that a little bit, too.

Yeah. And we saw Theo develop that, like, through the years, and then he just started, like, he just hit one time, just drifting off and just getting to that place where you're just constantly just saying shit. And it kind of makes sense even if it doesn't.

Right.

And it resonates like, Brody. Brody.

Another good example. Brody was just funny. He went, 818 till I die. He'll die. And laughing. No one even knows why they're laughing and they're laughing at that. He's talking about the area code for the valley outside of la. This is, like, celebration of mediocrity in second place.

Hilarious, you know? And it was. It reseda.

Yeah.

Of all places.

He was the best at that. He was so infectious.

Yeah.

Like, his. His comedy was infect. It would infect you. And you'd be in the parking lot, like, repeating his lines. It was so fun.

Yeah. I would play this game with Brody where I just treat him like an open Micah, and he would just play along. I was like, keep going up, kid. Man, you're gonna get better. You're gonna get better spots. Don't worry about it. He's like, thank you, sir. You're Great. And we just do it. He just went with it.

Yeah. When we were starting out, like, both of us were, like, when I met you, we were just past the open mic or just starting to work stage. We were both kind of, like, in the same thing. And that's such a weird stage because you kind of. No one knows what's gonna happen. No. Like, there's a lot of dudes that we used to do comedy with back then that I thought were really good. And.

Yes.

Vanished. Yeah, they vanished. They went out and got regular jobs and they gave up.

And that's scary to me because I never want that to happen to me.

Boy, when it does happen, it's never happy.

Yeah.

The guys that I know that do that, they always get weirdly bitter. Weirdly bitter. Like, sinister.

Yeah.

They want you to fail. They do not want you to make it.

Yeah. And I don't want that to happen to me. I had an incident with. I don't even know if I should say his name because I feel bad.

You don't have to say his name.

So he was in all these movies, like, big movies, you know, he was never, like, a major star, but he's in these movies, TV shows. He was that generation, like, maybe a one and a half generations before us. And he's a regular at the store. And the first time Tommy sent me to do La Jolla, I used to feature. But then Tommy booked me to headline La Jolla and told. And I don't know if this guy knew he was supposed to feature, but when he got to the club, like, when I. First of all, I brought a date. So you're supposed to get the. You're staying in the condo, and you're supposed to get the headliner bedroom. Shit was in there, you know, So I had to take the.

You said his name.

Ah, shit. Fuck it. I didn't say his last name, though. Please bleep it out.

Bling. Yeah, let's call him Bling.

Bling. Let's call him Bling. So Bling Shit was in the headliner bedroom. Mm. And then when we went to the store that night, and he found out, like, the host was on or the comic that they booked before, and then he walked out.

Oh, no.

He walked out. He said, I'm headlining. So then the guy that ran the store, I think it was Ryan at Time. I don't know if he was there. He was like, just go up and we'll pay you the headline. And I was like, fine, I'll. I'll feature. I Don't care and you pay me the headline. And then Barry Winner came back in and went up all weekend. That's how it was. But it was like that. That bitterness that. And I.

That's so crazy.

And I feel. Yeah, I feel bad, but I. Like, that's why I stay on stage. I'm like, I am not gonna let that happen to me. You feel me?

Yeah. A lot of people slack off, man. They. They just. They lose their enthusiasm. I think he had a lot of other problems too, though.

Right. And he's also from the era where they don't write new material.

You know, they do a lot of cocaine. There was an era where those dudes cooked their brains.

Yeah.

So. Yeah. Yeah. The things pass you by if you don't keep up.

Yeah.

Or you have to let him pass you by if you say, yeah, I'm good.

Right.

I had a good time. It was a lot of fun.

Yeah.

You can do that too.

Yeah.

But the thing is, like, those guys that. That go and get regular jobs, maybe they're better off than the guy who's now middling for you.

Right.

You know, I mean, because that guy's probably been phoning it in for a decade and a half. He might not have the juice left to, like, reignite what made him funny in the first place.

Yeah. That's when I feel like I'll just leave. I still got, like, a competitive spirit. I feel like I haven't gotten to where I want to. And I also like that space I was just talking about, like, we just. Stream of consciousness space. Mm. Like, I'm kind of want to get to that, where you could just like, go on stage and watch the tape afterwards. I said that. I did that. Right, that. Oh, that. That works. That just click. I just want to have. Get to that.

You know where that comes from?

Where?

Massive stage time.

Yeah.

Massive amounts of stage time. The guys who have the best timing and the best. Like. Like David Tell. Perfect example. That dude's got so much stage time under his belt.

Yeah.

So much stage time in so many different places. One of the things about Dave is he was doing that New York thing where you get in a cab and you go from one club to another club. So he's doing like, five, six sets a night. At one point in time, I forget who the record. Who had the record of the most sets in a night, but dudes were up to like, 11, 12 sets a night. I don't even know how you manage it.

I did seven one time in the city, and I Barely made any of them. And I'm like, I'm gonna get fired. They're not gonna book me again. I was like, I don't wanna do. That's too stressful.

Well, I think the guys who can do it are guys like Louis that could just sort of show up and just do a set, and they just put him on anytime she shows up.

Which bumps me, which makes me late for my five sets.

Exactly. That's always what happens. But that's always why there's always in New. There's always a guy or two hanging around, hoping somebody fucks up.

And that.

That happens to a lot of. I've got spots that way before where guys didn't show up. There's always that kind of a situation.

That's how I got in the Cellar the first time.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

That's funny.

I forgot his name something. Schaefer used to wear a blazer and used to bark for the Boston. You might have been in LA by then.

Schaefer?

Yeah, Louis Schaefer, I think.

Okay.

And so then he used to get people into the Boston.

Oh, he used to bark, like, in front of the. What you're saying is like bringing people in off the street.

Yeah. And really good at nobody. He was a comic, too.

I thought you were saying bark on stage. I was so confused. I was a barker.

Don't expect me to complete most of my sentences. This is. Yeah, that's.

It's asking too much.

It's asking too much.

So what were you saying about him?

So he was at the Cellar doing the same thing, and he already worked at the Boston around the corner. And then I was just going over to the Cellar to hang, and he was like, somebody's missing. Do you want to go up?

Oh.

And I was like, bet. And I went up. And then SD he told sd. I don't know if they were recording back then, but she just started giving me spots.

Oh, that's great.

Yeah. Yeah.

That was the good thing about New York was that there was a ton of spots you could get in. And you started getting spots and started getting a name, and people knew that you were an up and coming comic. You can get, you know, you get some work, and then you can get work on the road, too. You could do Long Island.

Yeah.

A lot of gigs in Long Island.

Yeah.

New Jersey. You can do Connecticut. Everything's kind of close.

Everything's kind of close. But here's the thing. Once I got in the city, I didn't want to go anywhere else. I just wanted to do the city spots. The Caroline's, the Stand Up New York, the Cellar, the Boston, sometimes the Strip once in a while. Because then you could just hang out in one place afterwards and kick it with everybody and just laugh, right? So then sometimes I'd have like a college that paid way more money and I'd be like, fuck, I ain't gonna be in the city. This is a terrible weekend. And no matter how the gig went, you just say, sometimes it just do the upstate Tri State, whatever gig it was, and then just head back. Just storm right back to the city. You missed the hang and hang.

You missed the hang. That was everything.

The hang was everything.

You remember Harris, Pete?

Yeah.

So I did the New Year's Eve at the Improv and then I drove from the the Improv on Melrose after the show to hang out at the Comedy Store afterwards. And he goes, that's the way to do it. You get your check somewhere else and you come back home. And it just like felt like that there, like we were all hanging. It was fun. If I had a great gig somewhere on the weekend, it was fun because I bring guys like you, Joey or Ari. You know, we were all together having a good time. So it's like the idea was like, you gotta bring at least a little bit of that out on the road with you.

Yeah.

Going on the road by yourself sucks.

Yeah, starting to make it sucks.

Sucks.

Cause you can't afford to bring who you want with you yet. You're just still trying to establish yourself and you're away from your comedy family.

Yes.

And so you're making a little money. But like, the camaraderie and the hang.

Is the opposite of camaraderie. You might be doing combat comedy. Some dude might step on all of your supremacist if he's your middle act on purpose. A lot of dudes did that. It was. It was different. It was like, oh, you're not my friend at all.

You're trying to come up too.

Not just trying to come up, but trying to come up in a dark way.

Right.

You know, there was a lot of thieves back then. Guys would steal your bits and do them before you. That were like your middle act that saw you on Thursday night, then they do your bits on Friday. You got to pay attention. You're like, what are you doing, man?

Yeah, that's fucked up.

Because they were in like some nowhere town and they never. They didn't have a real comedy community and they just saw some guy coming in from Boston in New York and they just, I'm gonna fuck him up. You know, it was. It's just comedy when you have a group of people like. Like it was in New York or like it was in Boston or in la. It's always so much more fun if you're starting out and you're in like, Pittsburgh. Like, how big's the scene in Pittsburgh?

Right.

You know?

You know what I did love about New York? How brutally honest all the comments were to each other.

Yeah.

So even like Patrisse, like, he had just dropped a special, but then he just went on this thing of like, I forgot the type of material he was doing. But we confronted him about that shit. Like, hey, man, that shit is hacky. And he was just doing it for a minute. Just fucking around.

Probably just trying to get some material.

Just trying to get some.

He just dropped a special.

Yeah, just trying. But he didn't get upset or nothing. And then we'd tell each other shit. I remember I had too many black and white jokes and we did a gig out of town and it was a bunch of black comics. We'd come back in the van and they were killing me. You talk about black people cook like this. White people cook like this. Cause they was like, you got a lot of black and white jokes. I was like, no, I don't. And it was like, yeah, you do. And they started naming him. And I was like, oh, shit, I do have a. I never wanted to have black people this, white people that.

Jokes, you know, the real problem is if you do short sets and then you got to piece it together and do a long set.

Yeah.

I brought this one dude on the road with me once and he had so many jokes about being a Mexican because he was used to doing five minute sets, but when he had to do 20, I'm like, Bro, you can't keep saying. You're saying it over and over and over again. One thing I love about being Mexican. And then there's another one thing I love about being Mexican. Like, bro, like, we gotta. You gotta add some spice to this soup. This is crazy. This is one flavor.

That's how weird comedy is. It's like, there's levels to, like, first you gotta get your first five minutes right? When you get your first five minutes, you're feeling like, I can kill. I can go from beginning to end and kill. But then now you gotta get 10, and then you're gonna start like, you're watering down your solid five, you know what I mean? You're not getting that exhilaration that you work so hard for in the five, but then you get to 10, and then by the time you get to 15, you could, like, host somewhere on the road. And then you might go out of your state, two miles out of your state, and realize, oh, shit. These jokes were dependent on where I live.

Yep.

They do not work here.

Yep.

I went to. I had all these Jamaican jokes about being Jamaican because there's so many Jamaicans in New York. And I went with some comics to do Temple. And it was in a big. It might have been where they play basketball. Like, Terry Hodges was on the show. A bunch of strong black comics. And my opener was a Jamaican about a joke about being Jamaican. My clothes. Killed in New York. Killed in New York. And I did the first joke, and people had been killing before me. Then I went on. I did the first joke more quiet than this in a stadium full of people.

Oh, no.

And then I start panicking on the inside, which definitely showed on the outside.

Yeah.

And then I was like, let me go for my middle joke, you know, which is my second strongest joke that didn't work. I was like, I had to do 15 minutes. I'm on my closer. By the third joke. Oh, no, that bomb. And it was bad. But thank God they booed. I didn't have to struggle, so they booed. I was the only one that bombed that night.

Wow.

And I bond because, like, like I said, I moved here when I was 17, so I didn't have enough, like, American shit. Right. To, like, like, the Jamaican shit about me growing up in Jamaica just started working, but there was a radius to that shit. You know, that shit would work in Florida, that shit would work in D.C. and that she would work in New York. And maybe one other place where there's a concentrations of, like, Jamaicans or West Indian people.

Right.

And American people that grew up with them.

That's a rough feeling. How many people in that audience?

Yeah. I would say at least 2,000. Yeah. And they booed. And these assholes like, yo, we going to the after party? You want to go? Like, no.

Yeah.

But I stayed in the hotel room and I had a great night. I watched Dumb and Dumber for the first time and laughed my ass off.

Well, shows like that are important. They suck a fat dick.

But, yeah.

They teach you, like, oh, I can't just rely on, like, regional stuff.

Yeah. Then I realized, like, oh, this is. You're only gonna kill in town now. You gotta, like, figure out, like, like, universal truths of comedy.

Well, that's why the real G's travel all over the world. You know, the Jimmy Carr's, that guy, he goes everywhere.

Yeah.

Like, there's something to that. There's something to going everywhere. Because I've done comedy in other places. I took. I took Tony Hinchcliffe once to Sweden. We did comedy in Stockholm. And he's like, dude, I think I'm bombing. Oh, no. They're laughing and then they stop laughing. It's just different. They're different in Europe. They're laughing like, I listen your set. He goes, I never got a flow going. I go, first of all, it's a big place, so you're probably not used to doing a place that's this big. And then on top of that, you're in Europe, Right. And they're, you know, their English is pretty good.

Yeah.

But it's not perfect. So it probably takes a couple seconds for them to figure out, oh, very funny. Very funny, Tony Hinchpip.

So, I mean, what you told him is only true if you didn't get a flow going. Did you get a flow going?

I got a flow going.

So then.

But there was also. They were there to see me and they didn't know he was going to be there. And they probably didn't even know what a comedy club was right now. These are all just people that came out to see me because I was famous.

Right.

You know, this is like, if, you know, like this was probably more than 10 years ago, at least. But if you know, comedy now, though, I think was a YouTube, I think kind of like all you need now is to have a really good set and you could tour the whole world. Like James McCann, you know that dude from Australia. Very.

If I see him, I might know who he is.

Very funny. Very funny. So funny that Shane Gillis worked with him in Australia and convinced him to move to America and then brought him to the mothership. Curly hair.

I've seen him here. Yeah.

Very fucking funny and very smart and really nice guy. Like, super, super nice guy. But he. He's one of those guys. It's like he. Like, if Shane didn't find him, right? Shane found him in Australia. He was like, ready to quit comedy.

Oh, shit. That's crazy.

He's like, what am I doing? I can't do anything over here. It's like, it's hard. You have to be a part of these festivals and these festivals, a lot of these festivals, like every year the artists will write like a new hour, you know, and it'll be like, about a subject.

Yeah. And that's another thing. They do those hours and after the year they don't record those hours. There's so many comics in Europe, England, Australia. Because I've been to those festivals that do their hour and then retire it after the last big festival. And I said, did you record those? Because you could have like, have a backlog of shit to like put online.

Right.

To catch people up with you, to create views.

Right. They probably forgot how it works too.

But they. Yeah, they weren't doing that back then. But how do you retire something without at least having like one big record of it?

Well, they have a weird system over there. Like, I was talking to McCann about what the, the festival system is like, because, like, the festivals are kind of like the only thing in comedy. There's a few clubs. Like, there's a really good club in Melbourne. What is that club called? The Lot. The Comics Lounge in Melbourne. Is that the name of it? I worked there with Ari, Maddie, Crazy Enough and Hinchcliffe and I did that like nine years ago, I think. So there's some comedy clubs, I'm sure there's some in Sydney, but did one in Sydney. When you're traveling, you're doing like these, these, these comedy tours. And so it's festival based stuff. Like there's a bunch of different festivals that people go to. And when they go to festivals, like, that's one of the things about like, like Scotland, when they do that. Edinburgh, those guys, the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, those guys, they create a new hour every year.

Yeah.

And you got to come back and talk about trauma or talk about, you know, what it's like to be whatever.

Right, Right. Whatever stage of life they're in, whatever stage of politics they're in.

And that's what people expect. Which is interesting because it's not really American style stand up the way you and I do it or the way you know, it's traditionally done, they're doing like story based stand up, which is, you know, it's great. It's not, it's not a knock on it. It's just a different thing. And if you try to do that in America, you probably get steamrolled.

Yeah, I've seen somewhere that they look kind of one man showy or one woman showy. So.

Absolutely.

So, yeah, so there's gaps of talking and then. Which is great punchline. Which, which is fine because, like, it's.

Just a different thing.

It's just a different.

You're doing a different thing. Like when I'll say things that I don't Believe at all just because it's funny. It's like, because it's a ridiculous thing to say. And also I want to get you thinking that I'm saying things that I don't believe at all. Like, this is just for fun. Like this, the whole thing is supposed to be for fun. This idea that comedy is supposed to be. I mean, it can be anything, right?

Right.

It can be this like educational experience for taking people on a journey through your life and how you've come to this, to who you are right now. Like, okay, yeah, at the end you celebrate because you're non binary, whatever the fuck it is.

Right?

Like, or it can just be silly. Let's have fun, let's be silly. Let's say some stupid shit that you probably shouldn't say because it's fun.

I need to do more of that. I hold back from that.

Cause you live in la.

Nah, it's just. I think it's just me, you know what I mean? Like, I see, like, I see you say some stuff, I see other people say some stuff and I'm like, I'm like, I don't even wonder how I'm not like that. But it's making me think now, just if I'm to get to this flow state that I want to get to, to the last dragon phase. You know when you're on stage and the glow is around you, like, I might have to like step on that plank a little bit. You have to see what it feels like.

You do, you do. When we're hanging out, you talk bad shit. When we're hanging out.

That's true.

You say some wild shit. No, you just take it down a notch. When you get on stage, you just gotta treat those people the same way you treat your best friends.

I don't trust people like that.

I don't either, but that's why I take their phones away. That's why they're under bag, but also the phones in the yonder back. So I want. Look, it's hard for me, man. I get it. It's hard for me to not check my phone. I want to like, see if anybody texts me. I get bored for three seconds, I'm like, what's in the news? Three seconds, It's. I get it. But sticking that phone in a bag is good for everybody. It's good for us because we get a chance to around and we get a chance to come up with new stuff that like, there's a bunch of times you say something, the first time you're like, oh, that did not sound good. I gotta figure out a softer way to say that. I could feel people tighten up. I didn't mean it that way. It's just. I'm trying to figure out the right way to say it.

And that's just the way it came out.

It comes out bad.

Right.

Patrice had a great line about that. He's like, you gotta realize that a bad joke that offends everyone and a great joke both come from the same place.

Right.

Is I'm just trying to make you laugh.

Right.

It's not. I'm a devious person. It's gonna sneak through some agenda to ruin your mind. You're just trying to make people laugh.

Right.

But sometimes people think something's gonna be funny and it's just not.

Right.

And you try it and you go. And you can give up on it, or you could figure out a way to make it work. Like, there's been a. Like, Chris Rock had that iconic bit. I love black people, I hate. So he takes that bit and he said, it just bombed for like the longest time. He could not get it to work. He's like, he knew there was something in there, but it was just bombing.

Right.

And I asked him how long. He said it, like a year. Oh, like a year. And then it became iconic.

Yeah. Yeah.

He just figured it out. And sometimes there's bits like that. They just like, you got. You gotta take the chance at offending people. You don't mean to offend them. Your season, your shot. The NFL season is rolling. And every touchdown can bring you closer to a payout. With DraftKings sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NFL. Every game is another chance to cash in. Don't just watch the action, win with it. DraftKings sportsbook delivers the unmatched intensity of the NFL right to your fingertips. From the first touchdown score to anytime TD props or the thrill of live in game betting, every snap is loaded with opportunity. New customers. This one is for you. Bet just $5 and get $200 in bonus bets instantly. Plus score over 200 off NFL Sunday Ticket from YouTube and YouTube TV. Your season is heating up. Download the Draft King sportsbook app and use the code Rogan. That's code rogan to get 200 in bonus instantly when you place your first $5 bet plus over $200 off NFL Sunday ticket from YouTube and YouTube TV in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER in New York.

Call 877-8-HOPE and WHY or text HOPE and Y467369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas. Fees may apply in Illinois, and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Boyd and Ontario bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. See sportsbooked@draftkings.com promos NFL Sunday Ticket offer for new subscribers only and auto renews until canceled. Digital games and commercial use excluded restrictions. Apply additional NFL Sunday ticket terms@YouTube.com go NFL Sunday tickets terms, limited time offer.

And I don't mind doing that. Like, I do have bits. I have bits that offend people that shouldn't even offend people.

Oh, there's always gonna be that.

There's always that. But there are bits where I'm like, all right, I'm going for it here. But there is, like, I still have these rules about offending people.

You don't want to offend them.

Not that I don't want some people, some things that I think are ridiculous. I'm gonna go for it.

Right?

But there cannot be a paper trail back to me where I have to apologize.

Right, right, right.

So I'm like. I'm like a careful protagonist or a careful antagonist, you know? Like, I do want to antagonize, I do want to say some shit, but I be like, I can't say it that way. So I don't know, maybe I have to take more risk. I got to figure this out. Like, you know how we talk about these naturally? Like, we talk about Joey and we talk about Cat and all these. And Cam. I feel like there's a gear left in me.

Oh, right, yeah.

That I'm. That I'm having trouble accessing.

Well. Oh, that's interesting.

And I don't want to be like them, but I feel like there's freedom in my version of me. Right, right, right. Yeah.

No, I know exactly what you're saying. I know exactly what you're saying. And I know you can get there, too. It's not, like, outside of your reach.

Right.

And I think it's numbers. I think that's a lot of it's intention. Like, putting your intention on that. Really, really working hard on that. And then it's numbers. A lot of it is doing numbers. You know, one of the things I found I was doing at my club, I was doing three nights a week. Two sets a night was too much. Six hours of comedy.

Right.

But. But is it's like a guy who's training for a fight. Like you don't want. You can't train the way you're training for a fight all year round because your body will break down. So fighters, what they call peak, so they peak for a competition and then they get into the last week and the last week they coast. So their body gets a chance to recover. So they go into the fight, they're basically almost killing themselves. But in that, almost killing themselves, when you recover for that week, you come out so strong. And so I think I was doing, I was doing that for like, I was good at that for about three months, which is like a fight camp. And then it was like my voice started going and I was like, this is kind of crazy. Six hours of comedy a week is a lot. But there's some freedom that comes from doing that many sets. There's a freedom of like exploring thoughts. Was a lack of tension, which holds us back. And most things that people do that are difficult, one of the key things that holds them back is attention. It's tension, it's fear.

It's like you're tight. You don't feel loose and relaxed and you know, you can feel loose and relaxed. So it's very frustrating. Like, what is that? Where is that loose thing? I know it's in there. I gotta find it.

Yeah. I remember the first time I killed. And it's nothing now, but at that moment, it's nothing now. It's always something. But when I've seen like Jerry Seinfeld at the same club kill for an hour on a weekend. Right, right, right in his prime. Yeah. Oh, shit. I didn't really kill. I just did. Okay, but the first time, like getting a great response, getting a great response from beginning to end. After, like you're struggling, you're struggling. You barely got one joke that works. And then I went on that night and everything just hit. But not only did just everything just hit, I watched it like it was a real out of body experience. Like I was watching me, I was watching the audience, but I was on stage. And then when I was done and the applause and the laughter, I floated off. And then it ended. And then, then I was really addicted. That's when I got. Because I, I got high on stage, right. I'd never even done drugs then, but I said, this is what drugs feels like and I'm addicted to that.

You got into the passenger ride.

Yeah.

So the passenger ride is when you almost feel like you're a passenger of your own act. You're so in it. That. And you so, like, you're so not getting in your own way.

Yeah.

That you. You get. You're like. The other part of you is like, we got this. Let me take care of this. Like, oh, this is so much fun. Let me sit back and watch this dude work. And you don't get in the way. That other dude, he gets in the way. It's like if you're driving with someone and they're a backseat driver, like, there's a guy coming on the right. I can see him and relax. I'm not. I don't have my blinker on.

Yeah.

You know, there's people like that, and they make you tense.

Yes.

Right. That guy is in your head. That person who makes you tense when you're driving, that backseat driver, that. That is in your head that fucks with you all the time. Like, you might think it doesn't fuck with you.

Yeah, it doesn't. Because I don't. I don't even hear it or see it. I just know he's there, that something must be there.

Yeah. But if you can.

The backseat driver, if you can control.

That, then you're Zen, and you get to that Zen place, and, you know, you can get to that Zen place, and you've done it a bunch of times, then it's the most frustrating when you can't get there.

Yeah. Because I did it that night without trying.

Right.

Like, I walked on stage just like that night, just like any other night. So what was the difference with that night that I had this. Were you recording back then? Nah.

No. I got lucky that I met this guy, Mike Donovan, who is a big comic in Boston. He was a big headliner in Boston. Very funny guy. And he recorded all sets. And he would bring, like, a fucking tape player back then.

Yeah. You'd have to bring a whole fucking thing.

You had a. And shit. And he goes. You never know. He goes, there's one thing you might say that is, like, the best thing you've ever said, and it comes off the top of your head and you'll forget it.

Right.

And it might be, like, the best part of a bit. You might have a. Like a new, completely new tagline that comes in your head in the moment, and it kills and it becomes, like, the main punchline of the bit. Like, you have to record those. If you don't record those, you'll never get those.

I record all my sets now.

Yeah.

And then you. I do have those moments when you're like, I didn't even remember saying that. This is the best thing I've said in months.

Yeah. Nobody wants to do that extra, extra work of sitting down and listening to yourself after you've already done stand up. Like, ew.

Right? Yeah, I know.

It's gross.

It was. It was tough for me to get myself to listen to myself.

It's hard.

Yeah.

But, you know, this is like. I think one of the things that we're dealing with, and this is what we try to address at the club, is that there's. There's never been, like, a curriculum of how to do standup. And there's one. There's no one can really tell you how to do it because everybody has a totally different way of doing it. But at least we can give you, like, an honest framework of how we did it and what we would we. What we did wrong and why we think we did that. Why it comes out clunky. And. And then at the club, the thing we try to do is just set it up where there's a bunch of spots. Like, so there's two days of open mic night. So you have two nights, those open mic nights, and then you have the door people who are real comics who audition for the job with their act. So Adam has to watch their act and say, okay, you know, you've been doing this for X amount of years. You got real potential. And it's like, you get a chance to watch Colin Quinn, you get a chance to watch Ian Edwards, you get a chance to watch SH Gillis.

All these great, you know, Jimmy Carr, all these great comedians are there all the time. It's like the greatest education and stand up that you could ever. And everyone's cool to you. Everyone's going to be friendly, everyone's going to answer questions. Everyone's going to end. And then you got Kill Tony, which is the number one place where a comedian break out in America today. The number one place is Kill Tony.

Yeah.

If you have one good fucking minute and you could just rock the house for one minute, you could change the course of your whole life.

Yeah. Yeah. That gave me chills. Because I've seen that. I've seen that there on that show.

Changes the course of your whole life forever and ever. You will. You. You're at that stage where you've been doing comedy five, six years, you don't know if you could. You know, you live in Seattle, the scene's not that good, and you say, fuck it, I'm gonna go to Austin. You scratch up some fucking money you made as A waiter. You get in your car, you drive all the way to Texas. You put in for one minute. You don't get up. You stay there. I'm going to stay on Monday. You come back next Monday. You don't get up. You're like, oh, my God, I'm running out of money. You start thinking, I should get a job. And then you get that one minute and boom, you fucking kill. You fucking kill. And then you go home. You're like, oh, my God, I'm doing it. I'm doing it. It's actually happening. And then next thing you know, you're a professional comedian. You're torn all over the world.

It's pretty crazy. It's pretty crazy because some people, they'll just come to town for that one night or that one day.

They should. If they. If that's all they can do and.

Do and then see if they can get up. And if they don't get up, it's a drag. If you do get up. If you just do mediocre.

That's not good.

That's not good either.

That's a soul crusher. If you bomb on Kill Tony. That's a soul crusher.

Then you gotta try to come back. But yes, it's. It's worth it, bro.

Dudes have gone on stage for the very first time in their life in Madison Square Garden to a sold out show. That's like the first time you lace up the gloves. You fuck Mike Tyson when he was 20.

They deserve that. They fucking deserve that. You.

Oh, my God.

As you said in the place where Mike Tyson.

Yeah. It's like fighting Mike Tyson, who's 20 is the first time you ever lace up the gloves.

You didn't take one practice.

He took.

And your first opponent is Mike Tyson in his prime. Patterson's after he just beat Trevor Berbick.

Right, right.

Good.

L. Even before he beat Trevor Berwick. Even better. Madison Square Garden while Custom Auto was alive.

Yeah.

Madison Square Garden, sold out. Show Kill Tony, you're on the bill. Dice Clay is there. Big J Okerson. David tells there. Shut the up. Oh, my God.

Why would you do that? Because I feel like some of those people are not narcissists.

Well, some people are just insane.

Right?

You know, it's like, you ever watch street fight videos? Like, why are you fighting? You don't know how to fight at all. This is so crazy. And they're starting it and all of a sudden they're out cold. People are crazy.

I know. I watched some of those backyard fights.

Yeah. Oh, I watch a lot of those.

Yeah? Yeah. Like, I forgot the one that I watch, but it's pretty popular. And they got like a cage around it, fancy cage, and they try to make it official.

Right.

But I'm like, I'm watching this more than I watch ufc. There's something about it. There's something. What is it about that. That I won't. I won't watch Division 2 soccer. I'll watch Premier League. You feel me?

Yes, I do. That's a good point.

Like, do you watch the other professional below UFC league? Sometimes. You do? Yeah, I do, but, like, for me, I'm a soccer snob, so I want to watch. There's too many of the best guys playing all week.

I think soccer is a different thing. I think it's a more gradual acceleration of progress. And then there's a thing about fighting where there's a lot of prodigies out there. So there's like a lot of dudes that you just hear about. Like, I'll hear about it through the grapevine. Like, this guy trained with this guy and he tells me that. And then he's fighting for lfa and this is like his debut fight. And I watch. Oh, here we go. Because there's guys out there that you never even heard of, right, that are in like One FC and the pfl, these other organizations that are world beaters. They're like elite, elite fighters. So you got. I have to pay attention to as many organizations as possible because there's always a bunch of people like that come over. A bunch of Russians, man.

Damn.

There's a lot of Russians, a lot of beast Russians, a lot of beast guys from Dagestan, beast guys from all the. Those people from that part of the world are hard ass people. Dude.

I want to ask you about this one guy now I stumbled on. They said he's the best fighter in history. He. He was in the UFC loop. So he started out when he was 19 in this thing where it's like. It's like flat, but kind of like.

A little slope, like banked on the sides.

Banked on the side.

You're talking about Frank Shamrock?

No, but this was.

No.

A black guy.

Okay.

And then he had a kid, then became a cop. And then maybe like when he was like 30, got back in and he did.

Boy, this is like translating an ancient language. How do I not know who this guy is? You don't know? I can't remember.

He was a fan. I know.

He gave me the. Tell me who he fought.

You pulled up with your ship.

He just give me one fucking name, and I'll tell you exactly who this is.

I can't even give you a one organization.

There's no way his name was best minor of all time.

But they.

Hussein is the best fighter of all time.

The YouTube video. Yeah, it's a YouTube video. They put the compilation together. But let me tell you something, okay? Like, so I've been. I'm not an expert. I've been to some fights with you, and I've watched a little. This nigga was nice, I'm sure. Like, I remember, like, the first time I saw Israel and I saw his compilation stuff, and this is before usc, and then I said, hey, man, is this guy real? And you were like, yes. So this guy.

So Izzy's a perfect example. I had my eyes on Izzy for, like, years, right? Because in the kickboxing world, he was fucking people up with style points.

Yes. This guy, too.

Yeah. Okay. And you don't remember. His name is Mike. You think his name was Mike?

Let's try Mike something junior. That's all I kept good through you.

How long ago was this? Was it a YouTube video you were watching?

It was a YouTube YouTube video.

Like, is it. How long ago?

It's probably, like six months ago.

He's probably gone through 50, 000 videos.

Yeah.

Jamie can't even find. He's like, that's not enough information, sir. You can put that in the chat. GPT.

He was a cop, and he's married. He's married to, like, a female fighter now.

Okay.

But he was like. His style was like, you know, the. The type of. This is driving me stream of consciousness type of comedy. He. He would do the, you know, the thunder kick on the regular.

Okay. Rolling thunder.

Rolling thunder kick on the regular. That was just, like, standard. Like, he. His feet were. His hands and his hands were like, feet, too. And he was just very explosive. And he did one time that. A few times, like, two guys beat him. Because he did go to the USC for a little bit towards the end of his career, and they did fight some K1 shit. He fought in everything. But.

God, you drive me crazy.

I know. I wish I had more info, bro, because I want to know if you.

If you. If you tell me who this is, I could tell you everything about them, right? But it's like I'm trying to figure out through this puzzle.

This is like hieroglyphics.

I think.

Just.

There's too many keywords I'm trying to lock down. I'm trying to run this through Jamie's Jamie brain. Jamie usually is pretty psychic about this kind of. You figure out who the it is, but your amount of information is like, I would think of yours as a suspect now if you're a witness. I'm like, the way this guy described the scene, I don't like it. I pulled the other detective aside, I go, I think we got our guy. This guy's full of. He's trying to throw us off the case. I think he works for the other team agent.

I should have booked marked this guy.

You should have bookmarked.

I should have bookmarked this guy. Cuz I was like, I need to know if this guy is really like this narrator is saying, but he fought legit things.

I'm almost thinking like, are you sure that this was one real person and they didn't just put together a bunch of stuff? Did you get by some AI?

He was bald headed. How about that?

Oh boy.

Had a low flat top. How about that?

Figure out who this would be.

Light skinned black guy. God damn lanky.

How long ago? I guess that might be better. Yeah, what year are we talking?

I would say he might have ended his career like the like 2008, 2005 ish or something like, because I was like, when I was watching it, I was like, oh, I got to stop watching for spice. But then it got to like, oh, this, this guy's retired now. And he was like, he retired like maybe like late 30s.

Listen, there's a lot of guys unfortunately that are really good. Really good. And then you watch him like one or two fights and you go, oh my God, this guy might be the best in the world. It's just the game is so brutal. It's the most brutal sport ever. You're using your body to try to break another person's body. And the most effective way to do that is to separate them from their consciousness, you know, or take their legs out until they can't walk anymore.

I remember one time we went to a fight and then I say, hey, Joe, why They, you know, they walk to the ring together with their whole crew and then right before they get into the ring, they hug everybody. And I was like, I'm like, why are they hugging? They're gonna be right there outside of the octagon and they're gonna be yelling instructions and they were in the locker room together. But right before the person enters the ring, it's almost like a goodbye because I might not exit this ring the same way I entered.

Yes.

Or at exit at all.

Yes.

You know, so that's what fighting is to me is like. That's how dangerous it is. Like when you're like, yeah, goodbye.

Well, it's the last thing you could do to support that person that you love that's about to go do that.

Right.

It's real hard when you watch your friends it's real hard when you watch your friends get beat up.

Damn. Yeah, Real hard. Yeah.

You know, it was real hard me watching Cormier when Jones beat him up.

Right.

That was hard. The Stipe one was hard, you know, especially the one with Steve Bay KO'd him against the kid. It's just hard.

Hard. Yeah.

Because you know them, you know them as human beings. You know, you know what that's going to do to them. It's devastating. It's like. It's like a loss. It's like you lost a family member or you lost a dog.

Yeah. It's affecting you right now. Just thinking about it, that's like.

It's hard, man. I start crying.

Yeah.

But, like, for me, the hardest one was Shop, because Shop didn't want to quit. And I was like, dude, you. The thing about Brendan that most people don't know is how many concussions he took outside of the fights. So you see the fights. But he used to spar with Shane Carwin, man. Shane Carwin was the interim heavyweight champion, the biggest fist ever registered in the ufc. He had like five XL fists, bro. He's so big, it was ridiculous. He looked like in the Avengers. He would be like the Hulk. He doesn't look like a real human. Like, all the other people were there. And then there's Shane Cartwheel.

He was a freak.

Freak. And Brennan Schaumb and him used to spar all the time. And he would get knocked out all the time.

That's crazy.

He would get concussions all the time. All the time. He got a concussion, like, days before he fought Ben Rothwell. He got a concussion days before he fought Nogueira. Like, he was getting concussions all the time, like, in the gym, man.

That's crazy.

So I knew about all that, too. And I was seeing the effects, and I was like, you gotta get out now. If you don't get out now, there's no happy end. There's no happy ending to the guy who gets knocked out a lot.

Right.

It's terrible. I was watching a video the other day, that dude who fought Mike Tyson when he. Right when he got out of jail. Remember when Mike Tyson looked like a bodybuilder Almost, right?

Was it a white guy?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes. And that dude, I. I found the video because I sent it to my friends. I was like, bro, brain damage is real, fellas. Because it's. It's just unfortunate, but you. You watch a guy talk and you go, oh, okay. This is just how it goes. Like.

Yeah, like ferns.

Yep. All of them. All the greats.

All the greats.

You know, Sugar Ray seems to have kept it together pretty good.

Yeah. Yeah.

But there's a lot of these guys. I'm not gonna find it. Is that. That's right. Peter McNeely.

Yeah.

This is the. The guy that fought and he went after him, man. He went after Tyson, which is crazy. Like, he pushed him away. He's trying to get after him, but bro.

And he's got some movement.

He headbutted him there. But Tyson looked phenomenal back, like, physically phenomenal. Look how good he looked. It just took him apart. Just that knockout alone.

What.

How's the rest of your life gonna be? Because he's not even.

Did his corner jump in?

Yeah, they said that's enough. Yeah, let's. We know where this story ends, right?

That's a good corner right there.

I was reading about Jerry Quarry yesterday. Jerry Quarry was the guy who fought Muhammad Ali when Muhammad Ali had just gotten his license back. So he took three years. He wouldn't fight in Vietnam. And they took away his. They took away his championship and they took away his license to box. He couldn't make a living for three years. And then he fought this dude, Jerry Quarry, and it looked like he had been on the couch. Ali didn't look like Ali anymore. Didn't physically look like Ali. Wasn't ripped. He looked. He didn't look fat, but he looked.

Kind of like wasn't physique of old. Ollie.

It changed the way he fought honestly. Like, look at him there.

He looks good, but still a little pudgy, but.

Yeah, but not like in comparison, right? So this was the first fight back, and Jerry Cora was like this just really tough Irish guy. And him and his brother were like, notorious for having, like, horrific gym fights. He was good fighter, man, real good fighter, but he died young and he had terrible CTE and dementia before he died. And so did his brother. And his brother only had a few professional fights. See, Quarry had a bunch of pro fights and he fought guys. I believe he fought Frazier. He might have fought like Ken Norton. He felt like big time heavyweight power punchers and. And legends, but. Oh, that was good left.

Plus he's Irish, you don't know. You didn't count the amount of bar fights.

Exactly.

You know what I mean?

But the big thing, man. Oh, damn. This is a beautiful combination. You forget how good Ali was. Even with three years off, dude, he looks sweet. But now I want. I want to. I want to show you something different, though, because we're seeing this Ali, first of all. Take care of those. Those strings.

Yeah.

Hey, referee, tie that shit off. Tape that shit off and cut it. Show me Ali vs Cleveland Big, big Cat Williams. This is my favorite fight to watch. If anybody never saw Ali before, I said, you gotta see Ali before they made him retire. And then you gotta realize we lost three years of this Ali, who was different than anybody who had ever boxed before anybody. So this is prime Ali. Like, look at the differ. Difference right away in the movement, right? The one who fought Jerry Quarry was kind of standing in front of him more, you know, and he was boxing them and looking good. But this Ali is like, good luck hitting him. Good luck, dude.

Look at the guy's like, this is awkward. Like, how do I stop this thing from moving so I can hit it?

And this guy who he's fighting, Cleveland, Big Cat Williams, was a killer. He had vicious power, man. Look at his build. Like, Cleveland was a dangerous puncher. Dangerous puncher. You couldn't let him hit you, but good, because Ali wasn't gonna. He wasn't gonna let him hit him. And, bro, he tunes him up in this fight. And at the end of the fight, scooch along so you could see, like, because he. He cooks him.

Is this before he beat Liston?

Yes, yes. Quite a bit before he beat Liston because he beat. No, no, no, no, no. Excuse me. I was thinking of. I was. I was not thinking of. Listen, I was thinking of Foreman. He beat Liston to win the title. This is. This is after that.

After that.

So this was when he was already Ali, because when he beat listed, it was in black and white too.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So this was right before they made him retire. So this is like 1967.

So this is before the force retirement.

Yeah, look at that moving backwards. Moving backwards with the 1, 2, and it's so pretty. There's no wind up, man. It's just people who don't think boxing is beautiful. You gotta watch Ali, Cleveland, Big Cat Williams. And you should watch a little bit of Big, Big, Big Cat Williams before that. You see the slug fest that he was in. He was people up and you know how dangerous this was for Ali. But look at him he's just bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.

Yeah.

Beautiful, man.

Ali took him to his world.

Took him to his world.

This is a moving man sport.

Exactly.

We're not gonna just stand in front of each other and just have a slug fest.

And this is the first guy in the heavyweight division to ever move like this. I mean, nobody moved like this back. Look at that combination. Whoa. Then he stands over with his hands up.

It's extra embarrassing with that hairstyle. You had your hair done, bro. Like you had the conk in it. You know, some women fixing it up and pressing it for the fight so you could go out afterwards, bro. Like, he never wore the suit that he bought to go with that hairstyle for the after party.

Wait, did this keep going after that knockdown? Yeah. Oh, that's crazy. Let that guy fight another round. Oh, my God. It was the end of the round. So he was saved by the bell. They used to have saved by the bell back then, too.

I feel like because of his reputation and how many punches he's taken in his life, in his career before this. You have to let this keep going, bro.

He just did the shuffle on him.

Oh, now he's feeling it.

Look at this.

Oh, my goodness.

Oh, my goodness. See, this is the ollie that we missed. God, the guy got back up again. Cleveland Big Cat Williams was a stud.

Yeah.

To get back up all these times from that.

Damn.

Look how good Ali looks, man. Oh, my goodness. I mean, he looks like a middleweight. It's like a middleweight fighting heavyweights.

And you know what was unfair about Ali? Because, you know, all the boxers back then had chins. So you feel like somebody with Ali's style would not have a chin, but he had just as good his chin as anybody else, and he wouldn't let you hit it.

Yeah.

And then if you did catch him and get in the slugfest, you wouldn't knock him out because this motherfucker could take a hit.

One guy almost knocked him out and they. They totally cheated to keep it from happening.

This guy, Fraser.

No, no, no, no. This guy in England. God, what was his name? I can't believe. I can't remember his name right now because I was just. I was where I was going to talk to you about Bob Foster. Henry Cooper.

That's right.

Thank you. Henry Cooper had a killer left hook.

Right.

Killer left hook. And he caught Ali back when he was Cassius Clay right on the butt. And his just. His legs went, his head rolled back and he slumped down like he's Done. So it was like at the bell, they get him in the corner, they cut his gloves. Oh, to change gloves. Like, watch this left hook. This guy Henry Cooper was tough as nails, man. And he. Look at that left hook, man. It's nasty.

Look at this right here. Damn, bro.

Ali was. He was. So this is at the bell, right? So they get him in the corner, they gave him smelling salts, they cut his gloves off and changed his gloves.

To give him some breathing room.

Did they cut the part out where they cut his gloves? I'm pretty sure that happened. I think that was an Angelo Dundee trick.

Angelo Dundee, man, what a court, what a guy, what a cornerman.

He might be the greatest quarter man of all time.

Yeah, yeah.

Think about the one with Sugar Ray Leonard and Tommy Hearns. You're blowing it, kid. Ever see him say that?

Nah, nah, he says it in Sugar.

Ray, stops him in the next round.

Yeah. And that was a Hearns fight. That was Sugar Ray versus who?

Hearns.

Hearns, Yeah. I remember all those fights. I remember the Hearns Hagler fight. That second round was like the greatest round.

Was the greatest round.

Was it the first round was the war.

Yes, the first round. Right out of the bat.

Yeah.

Okay. No evidence Muhammad Ali had his gloves changed mid fight to get extra time to recover. Rather, it's an urban legend from his fight with Henry Cooper in 1963. Ali's trainer, Angelo Dundee, did Bling bring Ali's torn glove to the referee's attention. But the controversy only extended the round break by a few seconds, and Ali went on to win the fight. Okay, so there was a torn glove, but they didn't let him change the gloves. He showed a torn glove and it just happened to be torn right after the knockdown. And this is an urban legend. Respectfully, the myth is that he had intentionally cut the glove. Respectfully, he probably did, right? Because if the glove all of a sudden was torn right after a knockdown, how many other times in his career has he had a torn glove where the fighter was winning? Zero times.

How do you tear your glove when you're getting hit?

If he. If he had. If he was in Henry Cooper's corner and he found that cut, do you think he would tell the referee? No, he wouldn't say a fucking thing.

Right?

Like, it's bullshit.

But I get it, he bought some time.

Smart move.

And one second in boxing is a huge.

Look at that face.

Wow.

That face, when he busted him up, I think he stopped him by cuts. If I remember correctly.

I used to watch all these old fights, but it's so long, I can't remember the. The full details. Like, I knew who you were talking about before you could remember his name.

Yeah, I forgot his name. Yeah, because I was thinking of Bob Foster. Because I watched this whole piece on Bob Foster last night. People forgot about him.

And Bob Foster again, he was the.

Light heavyweight champion when Ali was the heavyweight champion. And he. I believe he tried. I know he fought Ali at least once. He tried to go up to heavyweight. It just didn't carry over because he was a weird, weirdly shaped guy. Like, he was tall, but he was. Like, he was not muscular at all.

But he looked like.

Here, we'll give me a Bob Foster ko. Highlights. I got on a whole rabbit hole the other night because I watched this one video about where they were talking about Bob Foster and about how deceptive his punching power was. And then I'm like, oh, my God, I forgot. And then I went down a Bob Foster rabbit hole. And it's also the confidence in this video he was talking about. Take me one or two rounds and I'm gonna just knock him out.

Is he the black guy or the white guy?

The black guy, bro. Foster had. Look at this, bro. Bro.

This is like a mother beating a child, bro.

He was. He's had tremendous power, man. Like, the whip in his punches is, like, very similar in a lot of ways to Tommy Hearns, but he's a lot bigger. You know, He's a. He's 175 pounder. But it's that whip to the punches that Foster had. Like, look at that turn. Like, the amount of torque that he gets when he throws these punches. And Bob Foster, he flatlined a lot of dudes, man. He took a lot of dudes out of this dimension.

Boom.

Look at that left hook.

Oh, see the arms flail? Yeah, like, you know, the arms. Let me know your legs are going.

Yeah, Foster a lot of guys up.

Oh, he has a movement, too.

He did. He just wasn't quite big enough to beat Ali. You know, Ali was a solid 35, 40 pounds heavier than him. That's just too much.

Yeah, he's tall enough, but not.

Oh, that's him versus Quarry at heavyweight. God. Just shows you how many guys Corey fought.

Yeah, these guys didn't stop until they died.

No, no. Well, Corey died because of it. Much earlier. Like, that was. That doesn't look like Quarry. That's what it says.

He's catching him. The left.

Okay.

Oh, he just went to sleep.

Foster versus Dick Tiger. This is a Good one. Because he said about Dick Tiger, like, Dick Tiger was a champion at the time, I believe. And he said about Dick Tiger, it just take me one or two rounds to hit him, and then I'm gonna knock him out. Boom. He just. He had this power that was just undeniable. Man. There's some dudes who just look at that, the way he throws it. Like, everybody who, like, as a young boxer, learning. Learn from this guy. Like the whip.

This is unfair, too. The. The reach. The reach is ridiculous.

Yeah. Say that to all Mike Tyson's opponents who got lines.

I know, but that's why I like Mike Tyson, like, wasn't even 6ft tall. It wasn't even 6ft tall. And he can get inside.

Oh, my God, Like a tornado.

Yeah. And sometimes he'd stay real down low and you'd be throwing above his head, and then he'd come up with it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, he. He would have fun. He was playing with his food back in those days, you know, he was having fun with guys. He was having fun. It was a different thing that we had never seen a heavyweight move like that before. Right. So there was Ali you never seen everywhere. So agile, so. So fluid on his feet. He looked like a better version of Sugar Ray Robinson at heavyweight.

Right.

If you could believe it.

It. Right.

Which is crazy. But also, he wasn't fighting the caliber of fighters. Well, I guess he was as when he became a champ the second time around. He definitely did when he got into, like, Joe Frazier and Foreman and. But I always wondered, man, if he didn't miss those three years. I don't know if any of those dudes could have touched him.

Right.

If he kept that up like what he was versus Cleveland, Big Cat Williams, and you add three more years. Because I think Frazier became the champ after he retired. I just don't. I don't think they beat that version of Ali. And we don't get the Jerry Corey version if this Ali's not sitting on the couch for three years.

But it also saved the brain damage for way later than it. Yeah. But maybe.

Maybe it didn't, because maybe he wasn't agile anymore. So he took more brain.

So he took more. More blows. When he came back, he had to.

Rely on his chin.

Right.

You know, and he had a tremendous chin. But it's just like I always, as a person who sees guys in their prime, because I think. What year was Ali when they took his license away? What. How old was he? I want to say he was 27.

And comes back at 30.

He comes back at 30, which is.

Near quitting age for a lot of fighters. For fighters.

Yeah, it gets near there. Yeah, it gets near quitting time. Three years is the thing is, like, he wasn't a guy that was like Bernard Hopkins who just stayed in the gym, kept running every day. He wasn't that guy. And he was always involved in a lot of political things because he was an activist. He was a very outspoken anti war activist, and they took away his livelihood because of it.

Bernard Hopkins had the Most.

What, Jamie, 25. He was 25 when he retired when. When they took his license away. He was born in 42. That happened in 67.

And he came back at 28. Yeah.

I guess 67 refuses to be inducted into the army. Immediately stripped of his title. I think Cleveland Big Cat Williams is the last fight that he has before they strip him of his title because they wanted him to fight in Vietnam, which is just crazy. 74. No. So fight of the centuries. So he comes out in 70 against quarry. So it's almost four years, right. 4-28-67 to October, three and months. Three and a few months. Okay, three years and a few months. So 67. And from the time he fights Cleveland Big Cat Williams, that was 66. So those. Those are prime years, you know, And. But the big thing is not training during those years.

The layoff is.

That's the big thing.

I know how I feel after not doing stand up for one week.

Yeah, but you don't know what it's like to have your muscles deteriorate. Like, your muscles will go away.

Right. And your reflexes and everything, all the twitching of everything.

It might take years to build it back.

Right.

And in his case, he never really did. He never built it back to the Cleveland to the levels. Like, he didn't come out and just move around like that at 30. He just didn't. It was different.

That was different. And it was a heavier ship to move around, too. Because he was heavier.

Yep.

You get heavier after 30.

Also, you're going through training camps and you're not in shape in the beginning. Like, that's a different thing. Like, I don't know how much time he had to prepare for Jerry Quarry, but, I mean, I would imagine it's not more than a few months. So you could imagine you're. You're saying, hey, Muhammad, we got to get ready. Like, you're. And he's like, I'll be ready. I was born ready. Why are you telling me?

Joking around and shit. Come on, Mohammed. Take the serious. Yeah. Ready?

I'm ready. I'm ready right now. So come on, put on those gloves. Because he would talk to people and you couldn't say anything to him. So if you're managing him or if you're training him, like, good luck getting a word in. He's the greatest of all time. I am the greatest.

He'll have you training.

I remember he was talking to Howard Cosell, and Howard Cosell said, you sound very truculent, champ. He goes, whatever truckulate means, if it's good, I'm that.

I'm it. Yeah, I'm that. Yeah, yeah.

And he said it with. With zero hesitation.

I remember one time he said, I'm so fast, I'll turn off the light and get into bed before it gets dark.

Nobody had been like that. Nobody talked like that. Nobody moved like that. He was a totally different thing.

He was stand up comedy funny.

Yep.

He was stand. Like, when I watch his old videos, like, normally you just watch a fight. A fight?

Yeah.

I could watch a Muhammad Ali talking compilation.

Yes, yes.

That's how entertaining this was.

Yeah, he was so entertaining. Yeah, he was so entertaining. And he. Because of his refusal to fight in the Vietnam War, he represented a generation.

Yeah, yeah.

He represented the young people that were like, yeah, this is like, what are we doing?

Yeah.

You know, and people, a lot of people are mad at him, called him a traitor. But in the end, they all kind of realized, like, oh, he was right. He was right.

History. They realized they were on the wrong side of history.

Yeah. Because people don't know back then because the only war they had remembered before that, I mean, there was Korea. But really, people remember World War II.

Right.

World War II, we had to fight the bad guys. We did our thing, we stood up for our country, and that's why we got the greatest country in the world right now. You're not gonna do your part, man, Fuck you.

Yeah, yeah.

And then during the Vietnam War, it was like, oh, wait a minute.

Something's.

This might be a drug running operation. We might be like fighting in the jungle because someone wants to control drugs.

Is that what Vietnam War was? I believe drug. A drug thing.

I believe there's a lot of factors, but I believe one of the major factors was control of the opium trade.

That is wild.

Well, I. I mean, I want to say that about Afghanistan as well.

Yeah.

Because the production of heroin out of Afghanistan ramped up after we were there and we were guarding the poppy fields.

And it was for the opiate crisis that they put in the oxycontin here.

Exactly.

For the same.

I mean, it's the same. It's the same thing. It's like it's all just heroin. It was at one point in time, I think it was 90 something percent of the world's heroin supply was coming out of Afghanistan. And that's why we were over there. We were over there guarding those fields. I say we. Not me, not you. We weren't there. Yeah, but Americans were. And Geraldo Rivera fucking went over there to visit them and talk to a guy, this military guy, who explained why they have to guard the poppy field.

And what did guys say?

It's like basically saying, you know, we have to protect these people from Al Qaeda.

Like, okay, listen, Al Qaeda, we started.

Do you know how gaslighty that is? Just think of how gaslighty that is. We have to protect these kind and humble heroin growers. We have to protect them from these other people who are just terrorists who live here. And we're here. We invaded this place to keep these people from stopping these people from selling heroin.

Right?

And we're the good guys. Like what?

And especially the word al Qaeda, when I watched, was it Rambo 3, which was the Rambo in Afghanistan. And then you watch the credits and thank you for the brave fighters of Al Qaeda. Is that really in there in the credits, bro? It's in the credits because he. When Rambo 3, was him helping Afghanistan fight the Russians.

That's right.

So then we were funding Al Qaeda. You ever seen the movie Charlie Wilson's War?

No.

You haven't seen Charlie Wilson's War?

No, I haven't.

Tom Hanks, and he was either congressman or senator that figured out a way to funnel money. He knew Congress wasn't gonna give, like, you know, like, we give. We vote to have a package to go to Israel. So they weren't gonna vote to give a package to, like, help us fight or give money and weapons to Al Qaeda to fight the Russians during their war. So then he figured out a way how to get funding and circumvent it to Al Qaeda so that they could fight the Russians. Because it's all a part of the Cold War. Right, right, right. And, like, wait, like. Like in Vietnam, Russia fought us, but through the Viet Cong. And in Afghanistan, we fought them back through Al Qaeda.

And that's what's going on in Ukraine right now, too.

So what's the deal with the Ukraine? Because I kind of know what's going on, but I'm kind of confused.

Well, we fund it we, along with other European countries, fund it, you know, and it's. It's kind of the same thing. It's in. In similar ways. But this is what. What they really want control over is the resources.

There's the soil.

Ordinary amount. It's soil, but the real thing is the amount of minerals, rare earth minerals.

For the computer stuff and the phone stuff. Yeah, there's.

They're. They're sitting on an enormous, enormous bounty of rare earth minerals. They also have natural gas. So this was part of the. The real controversy with why Hunter Biden was running Burisma, which is a Ukrainian energy company. Like, why. Why is he doing that? What. What is the deal there? Well, it's like what they were trying to do is control energy and control the. The market for that. And he had access through his dad to some, you know, over there, got a nice cussy job. But there's enormous resources in that country.

Right.

And the war is partly over that. Right. Partly over. We crossed NATO. NATO crossed the line that they weren't supposed to cross.

We're not supposed to arm them and have them nuclear weapons right next to Russia.

Exactly. It's not we, obviously, but we are a part of NATO, and NATO promised at the end of the Soviet Union that they wouldn't move the arms closer to Russia. And they just kept doing it. And, you know, the idea is that if they wouldn't do that, Putin would probably take over everything. He'd go through Poland. Like, you need NATO. So I see both arguments. I do. And obviously, the person who invaded a country is the.

The bad guy.

Yeah, it's the bad guy. That's the bad guy. He went into a country and hundreds of thousands of people are dead now because of it.

Right.

But you don't know what the real motivations of war are until, like, the fog of war settles and the dust settles and the war's over. Then 10 years later, somebody writes a book and you go, oh, God. Yeah, it was that, right? Like, you guys just wanted money. You guys just wanted to control oil. You guys just wanted to make sure they stayed on the US Dollar. You guys just wanted to do that like you were pretending that there was this noble cause. The Vietnam War is the perfect example. The Gulf of Tonkin incident with that boat. Yeah. They made up an attack, Right. And then everybody's like, oh, my God, they attacked us. They fucked around. And now they're gonna find out we're gonna send our boys and how many hundreds of thousands of people died and how many hundreds of Thousands more lives were ruined forever. How many guys came back just with the horrific memories that they could never shake out of their head? They wake up in the middle of the night screaming.

Yeah.

They see people die. They see their friends die. They maybe have to kill people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Trauma, Trauma.

And then Muhammad Ali said, you.

Yeah.

And everybody was like, oh, my God, he is. He's a traitor.

Right? You.

You are not supporting America. And like, half the country just, like, you know anybody today, like, half the country's mad at you, and half the country loves you.

Right.

And after a while became. The whole country loved him. They all realized he was right.

Is there ever going to be a point where there'll be one person that the whole country loves?

Jesus.

Like. Like, it felt like it was like that back in the day.

Like, yeah, there were people.

There were some people like that, but now.

That was before social media.

Yeah.

Because even people like that back in the day, where the whole country loved on television and in the newspapers, in. In real life, there was always some guy at the gas station talking shit about that guy. You know, there was always someone at the gym talking shit about the guy.

Right, right.

People always talk shit. They just didn't have a public forum.

But if somebody talks shit about that guy. Mm. You know, the people he's talking that to, they were like, the. Is wrong with you? Right. This is a great guy. Right?

That's Larry Bird. Son of a bitch.

Yeah. How dare you?

How dare you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just because he beat you in high school. Let go.

They're, like, encouraging it, Right? You know, they want it. They want more of it.

Yeah.

Fucking weird, man. It's social media, you know, it's given the voices to people that maybe really didn't earn a voice. Not that it's bad. I don't think it's bad.

I don't think it's bad either.

I think it's good.

I think even.

Yeah. Even the chaos of that. These people that shouldn't get all that attention, getting attention, it's, like, bad for them. It's bad for everybody, but it's better. Net. Like, if you look at, like, the overall amount of good it does, it's way better than it is bad. But it's just a new thing that everybody has to deal with. And one of the things is the impulse to be a cunt.

Right. But also, like, just as a black person growing up and watching the news. Right. Always felt slanted and against us anyway. And then somebody either Neal Brennan said this or Chris Rock said this. To Neil Brennan. Like a lot of white people are finding out now that shit that black people already knew, you know, about like not trusting the cops all the time or the FBI all the time or pharmaceutical drug. Pharmaceutical drug companies all the time. Or. Yeah. They will drop a shipment of drugs off and guns off in your neighborhood.

Yeah.

And fuck it up and ruin it on purpose. On purpose. Yeah. Because shit, they got in poppy fields on another continent. Where you think that shit is gonna go?

You know, I've had that dude Freeway Ricky Ross on a bunch of times.

A bunch of times, right?

And he didn't even know who he was selling coke for. He was selling coke for the United States government and had no idea.

And he was, they were letting him. And he was doing it for the Iran Contra. Uh huh.

Yeah, it was, it was the Contra was. Yeah, Iran Contra, but it was. They were funding the Contras versus the Sandinistas in Nicaragua.

He didn't even know.

I don't know which side we were funding, but we were funding one of them.

The anti. The anti communist side. We were funded.

Hilarious.

The guerrillas who were fighting against the communist government.

Maybe there is a bunch of those dudes that are just playing war games. They're playing war games and they get to do it back in the 80s, back then they got to do it without any oversight.

Right?

They just played war games and they lied. And then, you know, you get.

They're like, just tell them this.

Yeah, they just. I remember Jimmy Tingles, very funny Boston comedian, he had a joke about Ronald Reagan because they brought Ronald Reagan into trial and they said, did you ever sell arms to Iran? He's like, I don't recall. And he goes, Mr. President, he goes, next time you sell arms to people who hate us, jot it down. He goes, make a note. Put it on the refrigerator.

It's hilarious.

But that's where, you know, Reagan literally was falling apart at that time, though people didn't believe in. They're like, come on. He can't remember. But. And then.

You don't think that was just his defense? Because I do think it was his defense. Then you're not, you're not perjuring yourself.

CIA. I was a Contras, okay? The CIA recruited, funded and trained the Contras, which included remnants of Somoza's National Guard. I think he was playing it off. But then, I don't know because he did get dementia.

He did get dementia.

He got Alzheimer's real bad. At the end of his life. He couldn't remember shit.

But it Was. I feel like he got the Alzheimer's, like, 20 years later. I could be wrong. I don't remember years no more, but.

I don't remember either.

I feel it.

I feel like towards the end, though, his cognitive function was declining.

Definitely.

But, like, that's how it goes with guys in their 70s.

Right.

Especially if they don't take vitamins.

Right. And if you're Reagan, do you want to remember everything that you did?

Definitely not. So, yeah, definitely not.

Alzheimer's is almost like a blessed.

And yeah. All those guys like George W. Like, you don't want to remember nothing.

Yeah.

You don't want to remember the Iraq war. We trick people into going to Iraq because we got attacked on 911 by someone who was funded by the Saudis. Like, what was what? Why are we in Iraq?

Shut up. Yeah. I feel.

Went over there.

I feel angry every time I think about that one because I was duped. Like, I wanted war. I was like, we got to go. They got weapons of mass destruction. We got to go stop them. Like.

Like.

Like their thing that they ran on the news worked on me. And, like, I never questioned it.

Yeah, I didn't question it either initially.

Yeah.

But I did. I did have a bit about it.

Yeah.

Where I was like, it was like, the only way for people to find out how dumb people are. Like, the people that run the world, they don't know you. They don't get to hang out with you. They don't know exactly how dumb you are. They all went to Ivy League school. The only way to find out how dumb people are is put a dumb guy in as president and then see if everybody freaks out. And then, you know, the bit was like, after he tricked people into going into Iraq and starting the war, and then he got reelected.

That was crazy.

I go, he won again. He won again. Like, the people that run the world are like, wow. And then someone in the back of the room goes, I think we can go dumber. And he was right. He was right. They went dumb summer. And we all. We all felt duped by that one. You know, we all felt duped by a bunch of different ones. One was the financial collapse when the housing market collapsed. And then the guy started getting bonuses. They have to get their bonuses. The CEOs have to get their bonuses. Like, what? Wait a minute, you guys. Your bank collapsed and you get a bonus. What are we doing? It's our money. So you're taking our money and you're. You're helping save these banks. And then the CEOs get bonuses because if we don't give them a bonus, they'll leave and go somewhere else. Like, what is this logic?

Right? The thing I don't understand about 2008 is where did the money go?

Exactly.

So listen, so these bunch of people had the money, then they lost it. But when they lost it, it didn't get burned. Somebody else got the money.

Exactly.

So then why was everybody broke?

Like, because somebody else got rich.

Somebody else got rich. But what were they doing with the money? Don't they do. Why did nobody have money?

See, this is where you and I are regular people and we're not financially minded at all.

Not at all.

Right? So we're not the kind of devious market people that would see an opportunity and take advantage of it, right? So what was the biggest transfer of wealth in modern history?

Don't they say that's kind of happening now?

Covid.

Covid. Okay, Covid.

Biggest transfer of wealth ever.

Elaborate on that for me.

So what happened was all these mom and pop places got shuttered, right? You can't go there. You don't have a. It's. We're in a pandemic. Okay? You can only go to Target during the pandemic. You can only go to McDonald's during a pandemic. You can only go to Wendy's during a pandemic. You can't go there. It's a pandemic. You can't have your comedy club open. It's a pandemic. You can't have this. These restaurants. Are you kidding me? That's dangerous. Outdoor dining. What about the optics? Shut it down. And so where's all that money go? Well, that money goes to all the other businesses that can stay open. The major chains, Walmart, Target, all these things flourish. The stocks change. 70% plus of all LA restaurants went under. People lost millions of dollars. Where'd that money go? It got legally siphoned into other people's businesses that were allowed to stay open, Right?

And also with the stimulus, like, a lot of big companies got huge stimulus checks. Like, we got some dollars here and there, but they got.

They got a lot of dollars. There's been a bunch of those transfers of wealth where you only look, if you have to look at it like a psychopath, like a complete sociopath who really understands how the system works. And if they'll explain it to you, you go, oh, so that's what they did? Yeah, that's what they did. They told you you had to stay home, they told you how to do this. And why did they extend it for so long to crush the economy? Because it didn't crush the economy for them.

Right.

It boosted their. The more they could keep you from spending money at those places, the more you had to spend money at their place at that. And anything that's open, that's all, they closed the market down.

So let me ask you a question. Like, how much? And I had this question in my head 20 years ago because I noticed a lot of greed. And I was like, 20 years ago, I was like, how much people. Money do the people that got money want? And then now I still have that same question because I feel like those people should have had enough 20 years ago when I asked to be like, all right, let me just chill. It's probably a different set of people who are like they were 20 years ago. But, like, how much money do people want? And if you get all the money and nobody has anything, do you really have money? Because how are you going to get more money from people that don't have no money because you took it all.

Well, no one's going to get that rich. That's sort of a. That's a funny way of looking at it. But there's different kinds of people that make money, right? There's kinds of people that make money because they make a lot of things. That's like Elon Musk. That's his money, right? And then there's kinds of people that make money that are only trying to make money. That's all they're trying to do. They're trying to do deals, they're trying to do this, they're trying to do that. But the whole idea is just to make money. Elon's thing is to make things right. Like, he's there to make starlink. He's there to give Internet access to people all over the world. He's there to make electric cars. He's there to make electric roofs. He's there to make spaceships that can go up and rescue people and bring them back down and land. He's. He's making things. And because of making things, he's the richest guy on Earth.

Right.

By the way, publicly, that's different than the real world, right? Like, the real world, it might be Putin. It might be some. Some king in the Middle East, Federal.

Reserves, who runs that.

Yeah, well, that's different, too, because it's not like individuals, but. Yeah, it's a good point.

But it could just print.

But the actual 1 richest person in the world, in America, at least the way we Forbes 500 guy is the guy who makes the most stuff. It's Elon.

All right?

You know, and then you have the guys that are just trying to make money, and that's a different kind of cat. So those guys who's just trying to make money, those are the weird ones because they're just a number people. They're number people. And so if they're thinking about numbers all the time, then they don't give a fuck about you. They're just trying to make more numbers and that you get more and more socio. Sociopathic as you go down that road.

Right, but so my question is, is there an equation, right, to prove that like our brains can't do it, but could somebody into money, Is there an equation that they could come up with to prove that you could make more money from peace than war?

Yes, for sure.

And why are you pushing this equation?

Because it's the easiest way to do it. The easiest way to do it is war. Because you trick people into doing it and you can control an entire country. And you know, it's like you're not going to make the same. It's like there's groups of people that will make the most amount of money from war, for sure. Military, defense contractors, they make the most amount from a war. That is their business, like, and you can't fault them. That's what they do. You need them because you need it. You need them.

And they have a stronghold already that they're not going to give them.

They're like a pit bull that wants to convince you to let it off the leash. Let me off the leash, dad. See this German shepherd talking, talking, bro. This is over in five seconds.

Every time we walk by here, they barking and yapping, let's shut this down.

Their business is to make, and not only just make, make better all the time. And I was thinking that the other day, I was like, if they're always making new jets, like what do they do with the old jets? They kind of have to, to blow them up. They kind of have to like go launch some missiles. They have these extra missiles from like that they never killed anybody with. They're just sitting around. They're going to go bad stock. We got to use them.

Yeah, with expiration dates on.

That's their businessman. It's like that Nicholas Cage movie. Was a Nicholas Cage movie about a guy who sold arms. Lord of War. That's right.

Oh yeah. Lord of War.

If you're selling weapons, you want a war, you know, and those are the guys that are getting the Giganto contracts. And then some guy comes in and he's like. Like, I pledge to double defense spending and make America stronger than it's ever been. Yeah. And those guys are running the stock market. Buy, Buy. Buy Raytheon. Buy. Buy Boeing.

But we as people, why are we buying this? Because we know the deal. No, we don't.

We do know the deal, but we're only learning the deal now.

Right? Right.

Like, as a culture, I think it's only been like 10 years where people are like, wait, what the fuck is going on? I think 10 years ago, most people think Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK. Okay?

Even I had my doubts. And I'm like, the most gullible in the world.

You had your doubts? Good.

Yeah. Yeah.

I knew there was something up with the story a long time ago because I read a book. But if you're the average person 20 years ago, you're not going to buy any of these wacky conspiracy theories.

You were the crazy person. People stopped talking to you. You got exiled from society.

Exactly. Now someone that you're close with sends you a video and you just watch this and you're like, what?

Yeah.

Oh, my God, they killed Kennedy. Oh, my God. And you watching, like, what? Some guy comes on a podcast like, oh, my God, they framed Nixon. What? Oh, my God. Did I ever tell you what Bill Murray said?

Nah.

Bill Murray came in here and the same guy, Bob Woodward, who was a part of Woodward and Bernstein that took down Nixon, he wrote a book on John Belushi. And John Belushi, who was one of Bill Murray's best friends. And so Bill said he read the first five pages and he was like, oh, my God, they framed Nixon.

Oh, what?

So the mo. The book was so full of shit. It was so made up. Like, it was this made up character of John Belushi who he was with all the time.

Right?

Like he didn't know John Belushi. John Belushi died of a drug overdose. So he fabricated this crazy wild thing and called it Wired. And he said he read five pages of. He's like, oh, my God, they framed Nixon.

Damn. Isn't that crazy one the. One of the most disgraced presidents of all time. Frame. So was he a good guy because he got rid of the gold standard?

He was not a good guy. Listen, this is. This is not a binary thing. Nixon was not a good guy. Nixon also passed that sweeping psychedelics act that made everything illegal. And he did that specifically to target the anti war movement and the civil rights Movement. Specifically, they wanted to take those people who were involved in the anti war movement and the civil rights movement. They want to put them in jail. And the best way to do it, they were all smoking grass, they were all eating mushrooms, they were all doing lsd. Just make all that stuff super illegal and then bust them. And that's what they did. And they changed the entire. The direction of the culture. Like what Nixon did was catastrophic to human civilization. Because who knows where we would be as a culture if psychedelics were legal this entire time from 1970 forward.

So should we thank Bob Woodwood or. Because we don't know the bad shit that he did?

Bob Woodward was an intelligence agent, agency guy. He was. He was a naval intelligence officer. And his first project as a reporter was Watergate. That's crazy. Why would they give that to a guy where it's his first project, his first major story is the biggest story in the history of the world. And he just happens to be a naval intelligence agent. What? There's like senior reporters. There's these people that are like beating the street. They're. They're out there every day.

Yeah, they must have been.

And the guys who broke into Watergate, they're all FBI. So here's the thing. Nixon didn't have knowledge of it, but then they brought it to Nixon and he covered it up. And then they're like, gotcha. And that's how they got rid of him. And they also got rid of Spiro Agnew, who was his vice president. They got him on corruption charges. They kicked him out. Put in Gerald Ford. Gerald Ford was in the Warren Commission.

Oh.

And then one of the things about Nixon is Nixon couldn't shut the up about knowing who killed Kennedy and trying to get to the bottom of it.

Why? Why did Nixon want to get to the bottom of Kennedy?

They were going to kill him because he knew Bobby Kennedy, because he lost to Kennedy.

He lost to Kennedy. So I figured he didn't like it.

John Kennedy, he lost to JFK in a previous election, right? And you know, he knew that guy like, and he knew who killed him. And he started talking about it. And the problem talking about it is they're like, get rid of them. I never thought. Do you know, he was like, he won at the time. He was the most popular president of all time. Like, he won with the most amount of votes of anybody ever. And we look at him like a crook, right? He was a. And by the way, probably was. At the very least, he did cover up that crime. He didn't say what they did. What? Don't know. I'm gonna. We're gonna make a press conference and we're gonna fucking find who did it and we're gonna come clean instead. He tried to cover it up, but.

To me, like, when I think about Watergate, from what I remember of it, was it really that big of a deal? Like, it's so sensationalized. What was the real crime? Like, what was the. Somebody broke in somewhere and they installed.

Recording equipment so they could listen in on people.

And who are they listening in on to?

Democratic Party. So the Republicans were listening to the Democrats, okay. As they're getting ready to campaign against them.

So it's kind of illegal.

It's definitely illegal, but it's not that big of a deal because they're doing that to you right now, right? Like, if you have your phone and you're, you know. And you're, you know me, if you know me, your phone is bugged.

Right?

Good luck. All those dick pics you sent out, those are all out in the ether, son. And you know that. That is something that we had to find out from Edward Snowden. Okay. You know, when, when, when that was exposed and we learned like, oh, God, there's a mass surveillance program that's secret, that's been around forever, and the NSA has been running it. Like, all that. What Nixon was doing was just a version of that. Or not even Nixon doing, but what his. What the. The crime was was a version of that. Listening in on your opponents, they probably all listen to each other now, right? They probably all hack into each other's email. They probably hire hacker each other's phones and hacking each other's emails and shit. And, you know, they do that, man, it's just. It's a dirty game.

I mean, they, they turn that dirty political game into like life. Like you said, if I know you, yeah, my phone is hacked. Or just the. Is it the NSA or is.

Who knows? There's probably organizations that are new that we don't even know of.

Right.

You know, they like, too many people know about the CIA. Let's branch out.

Out. Yeah, let's come up with something new.

Yeah. And you need intelligence agencies because the world is a dirty, dark place filled with monsters. And a lot of them we put there, but they're still monsters. And like, look, I'm sorry, I'm sorry we got monsters, but we have to have a wall and arm the turrets. Trump executive order quietly declared that NASA is now a spy agency. What?

How. That nuts?

Yeah. This happened a couple weeks ago. What they spy from space? I don't know. What does it mean? The executive order came out and there's just a redesignation, I think, of what NASA is officially. What does that mean? I don't know. That's could be nonsense or it could.

Mean something important, you know, is this a legit?

Like, did they change the name of it? No, it's still called NASA as far as I know. But yeah, here. The order stipulates the agency will now have as a primary function intelligence, counterintelligence, investigative or national security work.

What?

Why would they do that? The major departure for the agency was historically focused on space exploration as well as space and earth sciences over its 67 year lifespan. Not to mention that science and exploration stuff. NASA Watch founder Keith Cowing, former scientist and agency at the agency now closely follows its internal and external politics, wrote in a blog post. There are signs that Trump's intentions behind the order were at least partially related to labor concerns rather than spycraft. The order also added that NAS NASA to the Federal Service Labor Management Relations statute, excluding it from collective bargaining representation.

Ooh.

The news that NASA will now be a spy agency was seemingly overshadowed in the media by the President's elimination of union rights for thousands of federal employees mere days before Labor Day, despite multiple lawsuits challenging the change. I wonder if this is because of private space companies, because they're so far ahead. Like Blue Origin is far ahead of what NASA does. Tesla SpaceX is very far ahead of anything that they do. It's almost like you leave it in the hands of private companies. They could do a better job of.

Space anyway and then turn NASA into this.

No, I don't like, why are you doing that? The last thing we need is more spying spies.

But I feel like when you turn something into a spy agency, it already was. Right. And you're just like, let's just make it official.

Right. They put satellites in overhead.

Right. And when we watch movies and they like looking at parts of other countries to try to track down the villain in the movie, like they're using, they're giving away kind of what's really happening.

Oh, for sure.

So it is basically a spy, you know, organization.

Well, if they're launching spy satellites, they're a spy organization.

Right, right.

If NASA's launching satellites, that's mostly what they're launching. They're not putting anybody on other planets anymore, allegedly. And they're not doing anything with the space shuttle anymore. So what are they doing? Why not be a spy agency? Go Stay open.

Yeah, gotta move around, boys.

Can't be Blockbuster forever.

Yeah, exactly.

I think they took him into a room. They said, listen, aliens are real. These spaceships we have are all bullshit. We have a couple years left. Well, so use it for something else.

We're not.

We're not gonna travel to the moon anymore. Settle down.

I mean, I'm just. Even the alien shit, like, I believe in alien. I don't really got a lot of proof, but the denial of it is my proof.

Right?

You know what I'm saying, right? The harsh denial. And just like how we were talking about back in the day, if you didn't like the guy that everybody liked, they ostracized you. If you believed in aliens, they ostracized you.

Oh, yeah.

And everything from the. It's like, remember when they used to teach us, you got to drink milk, strengthens your bones. Then you realize, milk palace a certain amount of time. If you keep drinking it, it's bad for you. Like, everything that was bad for you is good for you. And everything that was good for you, we find out is bad for you.

Also, it comes around again because the real milk that you're supposed to be drinking is raw milk, right? The reason why milk is not so good for you, especially low fat milk, is because there's not. Your body's. Like, what is this, right? Like you've. You've boiled out all the enzymes and killed all the living organisms in it. It's just like this weird protein liquid that I'm drinking and makes you fart. You feel weird. You drink real milk, like raw milk. I had raw milk the other day and I drank it. I was like, oh, this is what milk supposed to taste like. This is so much better. It's way better. And it's illegal.

Meanwhile, why is it illegal?

Glyphosate's legal. There's all sorts of shit that's legal or ground up.

What the fuck is glyphosate?

Oh, Roundup.

Oh, the spray on that gives people cancer.

Not just people cancer. Like anybody close to a golf course. There was some study about getting Alzheimer's disease. Like that. You can get Alzheimer's much more likely if you're within a mile or so of a golf course.

And glyphosate was Monsanto before they sold the company to the German company Bayer.

Exactly. So then maybe Monsanto bought Bayer.

Or they sold it. Bayer bought it, of course. And don't you need it for your.

Monster fucking glyphosate poisoning?

Yeah, I can't Even remember the order. Because I like to say poisoning.

That's nuts. Isn't that nuts?

It's wild.

And they spray that on everything. Not only they spray that on everything, they make certain plants. They're genetically designed to be resistant to Roundup, so you can spray more of it on the corn. And then the thing is, they spray it on it at the end of the growing cycle to dry it out. Apparently, that's like a lot of the glyphosate you get in your system is totally unnecessary. They just do it to speed up the process.

But that's my thing. It's like, why. Like, this is so.

It's gross, right?

Like sometimes, right? The money they spend to lie, right? It's like you could have put that money into making this healthy and good.

Yeah. They can't though. They're. They're object. The problem is corporations as, as an entity, the way it's been established, the way it's set up, corporations as an entity always want to make more money, right? And when you always want to make more money, you figure out a way to make more money. And if you can bullshit your way into making more money at the other people's expense, that's what you do. And then you justify it and you have lawyers and you fucking keep people in court and you drag it out and then you, you know, you accept a small percentage of the profits that you pay off people with because they got damaged by your product. And you keep moving, moving because you're a piece of shit and you don't care.

But say you win, say you make some money, but you spent some money. You spent so much money, like with the lawsuits, keeping people in court.

You made more money than you spent, though. Don't worry.

But I feel like you made more money than you spent, but the money you spent could have been spent to make a good healthy product. So you wouldn't even.

Depends on what you're talking about. Because like, if you're saying the pharmaceutical drug companies no the way to make the kind of money that they like to make, you gotta do some shenanigans. You gotta.

Some shenanigans.

You gotta do some shenanigans. You gotta mandate medications and you gotta brainwash people into thinking that they should be on your side and that if. And then get them scared and say that if we don't take this medication, it could be literally the end of civilization. Like whatever it is, like come up with whatever fucking. People are gonna die, your kids are gonna die, everyone's gonna be Born, you just find a way to get people to believe. And they'll just all climb on board. They'll all climb on board because a lot of people are cowards. And that's, that's what happens in this world. And that's where it gets really weird, because then they have an enormous amount of money, an enormous amount of influence, and then they start paying for the ads on all the TV shows brought to you by Pfizer.

And that makes it look legit, Cooper.

Exactly. That makes them look legit. It makes the TV show look legit. And you're watching publicly an evil union you're in. It's an evil union between the truth and money, where money always wins and money will distort the truth. And they're allowed to do that.

It's crazy because when I was growing up in New York, I got bamboozled once for a hundred dollars.

Three card money.

What was it? I was at the Roosevelt Field Mall and I was leaving and there was this dude and he was holding a brand new box with a VCR in it. And he's like trying to sell it. I was like, how much? And he's like, a hundred dollars. And I was like, hey, man, could I see it first before I give you the hundred dollars? He's like, no, if I open, rip away the plastic and open the spot and you don't buy it, then the next person who comes won't buy it because they won't. It won't be new. And I was like, this is a deal.

Was it a brick?

Brick. I gave him the hundred dollars, got on the bus, didn't even have a car, Got on the bus, drove home.

Open the brick.

Open paper, then brick. But that $100 saved me so much.

Yeah, so.

Because I always, like, I was just always on a swivel looking out for like, where is the trick? And then sometimes I just wouldn't do something if I didn't even see the trick, because I like that there's something here. But then the Iraq war was like my version of the vcr, like recently, like that. Shit.

Gotcha.

They got me in New York, though.

You were in New York when September 11th happened, right?

Yeah, I was in New York, yeah.

That's the thing. I was. I saw it on TV from the west coast. But the people that were there, I think it hit you a lot.

Even.

Even harder. Yeah, I mean, it has to have hit you way harder. If I felt it when I went back there, which was like a few months later, I felt it yeah, it felt different.

Yeah, that shit. Like, I was. I was living in la, but I was visiting.

Oh.

And I was so homesick for New York. When I'd go back to New York back then, I'd stay a while, you know, and then the night before the Trade center went down, you know, Wilson, Vince, he was living in Jersey City, and I used to live in that apartment in Jersey City. So then he's like, I'm gonna have some people over. So I took the train and took the World Trade Center. The train. The PATH train. And it was funny because back then when I was living here and going to New York, I was like, let me look around. Like, I miss this place. Let me. There's so much shit that I didn't pay attention to before. And so I was in the World Trade center the day before it went down. Like, damn. I didn't even notice how great this ceiling was and how much detail they put into shit. And I got on the train, went to Wills Crist, and then I got a ride home that night. So next morning, my sister woke me up and I'm like, watching the first tower with a plane sticking out of it. And then I was like, I was yesterday there.

And then I'm watching. I was like, that ain't another plane. I was like, did it. And then I almost hid under the bed.

How far away were you? Miles wide.

I was in long island. So 50. 50, like an hour drive. Yeah. But I just, like. I was like, we're under attack. And you're like, I don't know where these attacks are coming from, and I don't normally feel like a coward, but I was like, something. Where they gonna attack next?

Yeah.

You know, so it was just that type of vibe.

But I'm worried that another one of those is coming. And the danger of that is obviously people are going to die. And obviously it could be horrific if something does happen, if a terrorist attack does happen. But the one thing it'll wake people up to, like, what the consequences of what we do overseas. It means something here.

It does.

It's not just a video on your phone. People are dying.

Yeah.

And we are funding it. And there's. There's real evil in the world. Evil's a real thing. You could not believe in the devil, and you could not believe in God, but evil actions are documented throughout history. And there's only one way to combat evil. You know, you. You have to. You have to have a strong force of good. But that. That good has to be really good. It has to actually be good. And if it's pretending to be good and it's actually participating in evil and then you. You find out about it and you're like, well, what the fuck? This is like in 1933, this guy, Smedley Butler, Major General Smedley Butler, he wrote a book called War is a racket in 1933.

Damn.

That's early 1933.

That's pretty early.

And he broke down how he thought he was over here to protect people, but he was really there to make, you know, make it safe for bankers or do whatever the fuck he had to do. Control oil and control whatever minerals or gold or whatever the hell they were doing. But he realized at the end of his career, war is a racket.

Yeah.

And this is 33 men. They tried to get him to overthrow.

The government, the American government.

They tried to get. They tried to get him to participate in a military coup against the government.

Who was in charge back then?

We just went over this the other day, right? Jamie will pull it up. Is before our time. So this is. I think this happened prior to that. So 32, maybe, something like that.

Some Woodrow Wilson, some old timey.

They just. Bro, they just got away with things back then. And now they have to hide it on layers and layers and layers of special interest groups and nos and money being flowed around and just. It's all bullshit. And it's. That bullshit is all over the news and everyone's confused and everyone thinks it's the good guys versus the bad guys. And the more people get scared, the more people start looking for white hats and black hats.

And confusion is the greatest weapon.

So here it is, 33 United States. Okay. The business plot called the Wall Street Putsch was the White House. Is that push putsch.

You said it right. Because it's a German word. Because they had putsches in Germany.

So it was a conspiracy in 33 in the United States to overthrow the government of the president of Franklin D. Roosevelt and install Smedley Butler as dictator. A retired military corps major general testified under oath that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans organization with him as its leader and use it as a coup d' etat to overthrow Roosevelt. So they almost overthrew Roosevelt. Imagine if he went along with that. In 34, Butler testified under oath before the United States House of Representatives Special Committee on Un American Activities on these revelations. Although no one was prosecuted, the congressional was prosecuted. That's wild. Typical.

Typical.

Even back then they were full shit. That's 90 years ago. The congressional Committee final report said there is no question that these attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient. I mean, these have been dirty from the day one. I mean, dirty from day one.

Yeah, dirty from day one. Smedley, God bless him with that face. I wouldn't trust him. But he was more trustworthy than his face. He had cash patel eyes.

He probably needed glasses. Yeah, shitty glasses back there.

Shitty glasses. He's occupied. He has his cash. Patela like cash like do something to look more believable.

When you're not telling the truth and you're doing that, it's a problem. Like, like bro, imagine that job like you say, I'm going to uncover the truth. And you get into office and they're like, this is where your kids sleep. This is, this is where your mom lives. This is.

Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. It's cold.

It's cold like. No, you, you realize how deep, deep the, the web runs and how the web's going to be there after you're gone. You're going to be here for four years, you know, while this guy's the president. And as soon as he's out, once we take over again.

Yeah. And you have the promise, the promise of something better from either party because both of them ain't.

Yep.

Yeah.

And you can only switch parties once.

Yeah. Oh, word.

Back and forth and back and forth. Nobody has. People have switched. They've gone from Democrat to Republican and I think. Have people gone from Republican to Democrat?

I believe so if you're a politician or just if you're like a regular citizen.

No, as a citizen you can go back and forth all you want. You can be a fucking complete schizophrenic and do it every month.

I mean I don't even blame someone who, who does that because if you're.

A public person though, like can you switch sides? You can only switch sides once if you're a politician. Yeah. But it's weird when people do because they don't just switch sides with like who they vote for. They switch their whole ideology.

Right.

And it's usually like what I see recently it's from liberal to they get red pilled and then they become a conservative, but then they go all in and conservative, like all in.

They go hard.

They might even go to the point where why is gay marriage real? You know, they might get crazy.

Right, right.

And then it's hard to take them seriously. Cause now you made a 180 degree shift when you were in your 40s, really, you changed everything you believe in.

I think you have to prove so hard to people that's been Republicans that you're a Republican, that you go overboard.

You gotta go hard.

You gotta go hard. It's like I grew up in Long Island. There was some hard pockets of hardcore motherfuckers there, but they were trying to be Brooklyn. But they're not in Brooklyn. So you ain't gonna get the respect of Brooklyn. You ain't gonna get the respect of Bronx. You. Long Island. So it's like we gotta wild out down here.

Here, right.

Like, we gotta go hard. And so you had places like Wine Dance, like you. You don't want to go to Wine Dance.

Wine Dance?

Yeah, Wine Dance. It just. I've never even heard of it. Yeah, it was. It's tough down there. Some rap, some good rappers came out of Wine Dance, too.

Well, Wu Tang came out of Staten island, which is crazy.

Yeah, yeah, right? Yeah. Staten island was wild too. Yeah.

It's just like, you don't think of Staten island as being the birthplace of the greatest rap group of all time.

True. But they had the credit of being a borough like Long Island.

That's true.

Like Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx, Staten Island. But Long island is like, what are you, suburbs? Yeah, you're the suburbs.

Suburbs.

So they're like, no, no, we get down, we get down.

They got good pizza.

Like, shut up.

That's not the same.

You're non borough.

Yeah, it's true. It's different, right? People think it is different. Is it considered a borough officially?

No, it's not.

It's not.

Not like you grew up in Boston.

Yep.

Like. Like, were you in Boston? Boston. And if you were, what about the parts outside of Boston that felt left out of the notoriety?

Right.

Like. Like they weren't getting the street cred. They had zero street cred.

Right.

You know Woburn? Woburn. Oh, that's hilarious.

Framingham, outside of Boston.

Yeah. But you want to be like, if they go somewhere.

Yeah. They would say from Boston.

They say they're from Boston.

100.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But the regular boss people will get mad at you. They'll call you out.

Yeah.

You're from Wooburn.

Yeah, exactly. Are you talking about New York is like that too. Like, I'm from New York. Yes.

Westchester.

Yeah. You're not gonna pass the second part of the where you from Quiz.

Exactly.

And that's when they gonna go in on.

Unless you say right off the bat. You know, I'm from Queen. Right, okay. Yeah, that's real.

There's no second question once you say Queens.

Yeah, I'm from the Bronx. Oh, okay. Yeah, she's Jenny from the Bronx.

Yeah. Yeah. It's always. You know what? If you're trying to lie, just name, like, you said, name the part you're from, like, where you from. But if you say New York, right? That's when shit is suspect.

Sarasota. Sarasota, New York. I'm from Albany.

Yeah.

Yeah. I used to think it was all one place.

Place. Hilarious.

Living in Boston. I didn't know. I was like, what? So what is the difference in these boroughs? Like, oh, you want a 212 area code? You do. Like, why? Why do you care? I remember that was a big thing about la. Like, that was one of the things about Brody Stevens, 818 till I die. Like, you when you lived in the Valley, you had an 818 area code, and people look down at you.

Yeah.

People would make jokes about it. I don't date people that aren't 3, 10 or 21 3.

Yeah. I mean, that's why Brody was funny, because he stood on his. He stood on 818.

He stood on the Valley.

He stood on the Valley.

Nobody repped for the Valley.

You do. Like I do. I say, I'm from New York, I'm from la. He didn't say, I'm from la. He said, I'm from Reseda. He named the town, named the area code of his phone number, and, like, stood on that shit.

For sure, dude. I never even tried to live in la. La. The moment I moved there, I was like, I'm not doing this. I gotta get outside of this thing. I gotta get outside of this thing and then go visit.

Yeah.

I don't want to live in that thing. Because I had friends that, like, lived, like, in West Hollywood. Like, my friend Eddie lived, like, in West Hollywood, like, right in the heat of everything. And I was like, damn, dude. He's like, being like, right where everything is. I'm like, yeah, but this is also right where everything is. Like, how do you sleep?

That's. That's. But it felt like that's what you. You moved to Hollywood to be in Hollywood to become a part. That's. That's. That. That was the thinking.

Yeah.

So even, like, I've known you, even you saying you never lived there, that's a shock to me.

Yeah. My thinking was the opposite. My thing was like, I gotta get outside of this thing.

Damn.

Well, I found out I Lived in Bell Canyon for a while, and one of the things I.

Where the hell's that?

30 miles outside of LA. That's where I lived most of the time I was in LA. Yeah. Yeah. I bought a house out there in 97. Yeah. Like, when I first started making money, I'm like, I gotta get away from all these people. I wanted to be in, like, wilderness, first of all. I have dogs. I needed a backyard. So I lived in Encino for a little while. I rented a house in Encino, but that was too close, too. Encino was still too close.

That's far.

Yeah. I was like, I gotta get out. I gotta get away. I gotta get out. I wanted to go to Thousand Oaks. I wanted to go away layout. I wanted to go where regular people live, where you could just take a breath. Like, I never liked, like, the parties, Hollywood parties. I was like, every time I go, I feel like just. It just felt like I wanted to run out of there. Like, get me out of here. Like, this is. No one's relaxed. Everyone's. This is fake and weird. I was like, I need. I need to live outside of this thing and then go visit it.

And go visit it. It. Yeah, I was in it. I lived in Hollywood, but it was in the cut. It was like, Ivar. If you go up Ivar, you're at the bottom of the hills and it's quiet, it's pretty, and then. Then you come out, right? But it was so. I was like, oh, I like this, but on the flats. Like, just like in Hollywood. Hollywood. Like, I. I get what you're saying, but I did feel like. Like I needed to be near it.

Yeah, no, I get the under. I get the wanting to be near it. And I thought about it for a while, but I just know me, like, I need downtime, right? I go hard, and when I go hard, I need, like, off time. I need, like, completely off. Sit down, relax, and think about, right? Because I need to know what I think. And the only way I know what I think is if there's not a lot of noise going on. I can't just operate on momentum, right? I feel like when you operate on momentum all the time, you make decisions, right? You know, you. You start, like, going down roads you shouldn't be going down. Like, what am I doing? What the am I doing with my life?

So did you. Did you plot your life out a lot?

No.

In a sense, no.

I'm just like. I just, like, go on instinct. My instinct was like, get away from everybody, right? Like, go Quiet. I want to just wake up in the morning, have coffee on the porch and just hear birds chirping and see, you know, see a deer bounce by. Like that's what I like. I like to relax.

That's some cool.

Yeah, you have to. If I'm in Manhattan, you, I'm like, I don't feel relaxed.

Right.

This is a place for me to visit. But it's just my personality. Like whatever it is with me, like even when I lived in New York, I live. I couldn't afford an apartment that had rental. I couldn't afford a rental car space. But I needed a car for the road.

Right.

Because I took the total opposite approach of you. I did not do the clubs in the city very often.

No, that's where I met you.

Yeah, no, I still did some of them.

Right.

But most of the road is mostly the road is what I did.

Right.

So I did a lot of gigs in Long island at a lot of gigs in New Jersey because that paid real money and I could do an hour, you know, I was like, I could get better in the city, but I'm getting better in these 5 and 10 minute spots. Like I need time, I need like real time to put together an actual. Because when you're in Boston, you always went on the road. Everybody did the road, right. So it didn't make sense to me to be like just doing one 10 minute spot and another 10 minute spot. Like I can't.

I thought the opposite. This is why. So I was doing all those shows that you were doing, like the, for the, for the hour, for the feature. First I started hosting, but then I was like, I need to get on TV so that I can get on the road.

Yeah.

And then people book me and then come see me. So then I said, let me go to Manhattan, which takes me out of the hour situation. But in these 15 minute spots build. People see me. Put you on this TV show, put you on that TV show and like as a stand up, as, you know, like, you know, like the improv or whatever, like stand up show that they were having and because back then it's like a few late night show appearances and then boom, then you could be on the road. So I went that route and that was my mentality for probably way after the shit changed.

Oh, you kept. You hung onto it too long.

Yeah. Even living in la. Yeah, I remember this is. I was with Kevin Hart, right. He just moved to la and I wrote on his sitcom the Big House and then he's booking, he's A good actor, like, and when he walks, like, I've helped him audition before, but I didn't really help him audition. He'd just be like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he wouldn't say all the words, but he would nail the feeling of the shit. And he's like, you don't have to remember everything. And it's like, it was an eye opening experience. And then, but then he said, I want to be on the road, like Catwoman Williams. I was like, why you want to do that? Get another TV show. And then, then the, the fame of the TV show will get you on the road. Thank God that nigga didn't listen to me. He went on the road, he's doing like fifteen hundred dollars. You know the, you know the, the route to Bill and, And collecting emails.

Yep.

The complete opposite. And fucking Kevin Hart's. Kevin Hart.

Yeah. Well, he was always very smart about the social media thing and treated it like a separate business because, like, I remember there was a story about someone wanted access to his social media to promote a project they were doing. He was like, no, Sony, that's a totally different deal. Like, you got one deal, you got Kevin Hart to act in your movie. Another deal, you get access to Kevin Hart's Instagram. Like, I built this, right? This is my business. And if you want to do that, we can talk. But it's. This is not the same deal.

Yeah.

And I was like, okay, that. Because they did that to a lot of people. They did that to Arsenio. I remember Arsenio hall was at the Ice House. And you remember he had the Arsenio hall show. Came back.

Came back. Yeah.

So when it came back, they took over his social media. That was part of the deal. And they didn't give it back to him.

Yes.

And this is a long time afterwards. Like months and months and months afterwards, we were hanging out at the Ice House, and he's like, I can't get my social media back. I'm like.

And he built that from being on the Apprentice.

Also from being the original, original hall show. Yeah. Which was an iconic show. I mean, he did everything. He did stand up. I mean, Arsenio hall was in movies, right. And they took his social media.

That's crazy.

Yeah, that's crazy. But that was. They were trying to make deals like that.

Right.

When I was doing that show, Joe Rogan questions everything they wanted to do that that was going to be a part of the deal. They take over my social media.

And what year was what year was that 2012 maybe? Yeah. You had a. You had a strong.

It was okay. It was nothing. Like, not as big as it is now, but it was big enough. So I was like, fuck, it's bigger than you.

Yeah, it was. It was bigger than. I mean, yeah, no, no, but it was big. It was big for then. For then. I think it was pretty big.

But my point is, like, for me, when they were saying to me, I'm like, my show, my social media presence is bigger than you. You have a network, your network social media is not nearly as big as my. My one person social. Why would I do that? Why would I let you have access to it? And they wanted to be able to promote their other shows on my social.

Media and then just dilute it and turn it into something that's crazy.

Not only that, they could write on it whatever they wanted to, whatever. And they said, other artists aren't having a problem with us doing this. This is like their argument. It was like a hang up in the deal. And I was like, abso lutely not like, if I post something, even if it sucks, I want people to know that came out of my fat little thumbs. Like, I wrote that. That's it. Whether you like it or you hate it, know that came from me. And when they did that, I was like, oh, so how many people have been doing this? And it was a bunch of my friends. How to sign off deals like that, Right? It was part of the deal. If you wanted to do this new show, you had to give them access to your social media. Not just access control of your social media.

That is wild.

Wild.

That's that into perpetuity type that they put in contracts. When you do like a stand up set on something and you're like, what do you plan on doing this material? And then they say they actually mention space and planets, don't they, in those contracts?

There's some contracts like that.

And you're like, whoa, what the fuck do you know that? I don't know.

I read about a contract. I don't know if this is true. Some sort of a Scientology contract that is like into infinity, into the end of the universe.

Wow.

Talk about covering your bases. Not even until you die. Like until time runs out. Billion year commitment. Sea Org. Here it is.

Oh, wow.

A symbolic billion year commitment, which functions as a perpetual contract with no expiration date. While other staff members sign employment contracts of varying lengths. Sometimes short term is just 2.5 years, but potentially extending to 5 years or more. And these agreements may Be disguised as volunteer or religious worker contracts to avoid labor. Labor loss. So the Sea Org. If I think. Click on Sea Org, I think he collects.

Where they pay you a week.

Nothing.

Just to sign off on that.

Nothing they give you. You get nothing. And you're happy. You just can't believe you're a part of the Sea Org.

I'm gonna be in the Sea Org.

It's.

That's wild, bro.

Wow. Billion year contract.

Yeah, that's. That's wild.

Well, they. They. You know, people been doing that, taking advantage of young artists in particular forever. Like, that's why Prince had to change his name to a symbol.

Right.

You know, that's. They. They've been doing that to people forever. Jared Leto's going through that. Right. You know, he went through that with his band. It's just. There's always going to be a business that takes advantage of you and makes it look like it's not a big deal.

Like Spotify. Like, I know this is Spotify, but there's a lot of beef about Spotify right now.

What's the big beef?

Just artists ain't getting paid.

Yeah. The people who get paid are the people that own the records, unfortunately. Yeah, that's the. That's the. If you own your label or you own your catalog, then you get paid. It's just. What contracts did you sign? That's the thing is, like, if you're an upcoming artist today and you're listening to this, do you need a record label? You don't really need a wide. No one's buying records. Right.

How do you. How do you get your shit played outside of, like, it's easy to avoid a label. Right, right, right. But how do you get your shit heard?

Like, what has to go viral?

Right?

It has. So it has to be undeniable.

And so is anything really going viral or is it artificial? Artificial viral. Like, what's both.

Both things are happening.

Yeah.

There's definitely real. Still real viral, but there's a lot of artificial viral. And that's what a record company can do for you.

Right?

It can make you go artificial viral.

Right.

And they. It will go viral if you're good. But it's like they can juice it up to a point. But what's the cost? They want like, 50. They want some insane amount of money from your touring, your tour.

Yeah.

You're touring and you doing live performances. They don't even sing a word. And they get paid.

And that's where, like, artists used to get ripped off in their deals. But they used to make money touring. Right. But then they cut into the touring now.

Well, because they weren't making any money selling records anymore.

Because who was making the money?

Well, the thing is, like, nobody was for a long time. Right. It was a streaming, but then there was, like, Apple streaming. And Apple.

What happened to Apple?

Spotify ate them up. Yeah. They just. Nobody buys music on Apple anymore. I mean, I used to listen to. Before I signed my Spotify deal, everything was Apple music.

Yeah.

And for the longest time, I wasn't even using Spotify. And then once I started using it, I was like, oh, this is better. And that was it. I get it. If you're an artist, you're like, you're not getting paid. Like, I get it. I don't know what to say. I don't know why you signed that deal. I don't know what the circumstances were. I don't know how those deals are even legal.

Yeah. I don't know how if, like, I got, like, my specialist coming out on YouTube. So I got. That's. There's a way for comics to do it without signing a big deal.

Yes.

Or signing everything away. Giving it over to somebody for less than you showed. Or even if it pays a legit amount, there's. You know, it's not for a billion.

Right.

You can keep it, but I don't know if you're a musician, like, what way you can get your shit heard.

You gotta put it out like that. You gotta put it out on YouTube, put it out on social media. Someone has to retweet it. Someone has to hear about it, talk about it on a podcast. You can get it out. You know, we were talking about. It's a little late, but we were talking about that Johnny Thunder song, I'm a lot. We played it yesterday, and then Jamie brought up that after we first started playing it on the podcast, like, two years ago. So a song from 1969, there was, like, a lost song, and Brian Simpson brought it to the mothership, and he's like, this is gonna be, like, one of your favorite songs. You gotta listen to this. And we played it in the green room, and I was like, holy shit. And we had to figure out that it was from 1969. Like, when was this. Like, who was this guy? Like, what is the deal? The dude. Dude back then apparently was still alive, and he died, like, a year later. So he might have died knowing that his song had started to become big again. Because then it started appearing in commercials.

Oh, it was in a bunch of Commercials. What were the commercials again? Samsung Lincoln. Like Mountain Dew.

Did he own it?

I don't think so. He was only. He only had this one song. That was amazing. Yeah, that's why I was looking that up yesterday. He actually had a bill. Billboard. Billboard hit before that. What was that one? Loop de loop. Was it good?

I didn't.

I was gonna play it yesterday, but. Yeah, let's play it. Let's play it.

I say a loop de loop.

Let's say a loop de loop. But the point is, like, he should have been a star. He should have been. I say Johnny Thunder, and you're like, oh, I love that dude. The second album's amazing.

You know, he should have been at least Chubby Checker.

Yeah, Twist.

Chubby Checker got so much mileage off the twist. I've never seen somebody get that much mileage.

I have to edit this out. Yeah, we'll edit it out. All right. Kill this. This is terrible. Now play.

He looked like the dude that was fighting Muhammad Ali in his earlier.

I'm Alive. Now this. This is the jam, son. This song. I listen to this song all the time. This is on regular playback.

Yo. First of all, he looks like a Def Jam comic. That's like. Or even like. Like an All Senior hall. Like, back in the days, like.

So what year was this, Jamie? This one was 69. Wow. And then I also read that he had been performing with the Drifters and did the backup vocals, I think, like Dionne Warwick or something like that. That song, to me, is just proof that there's a lot of factors involved in making it, because that guy should have been a superstar. That is a superstar. So. Song.

Yeah, because I'm listening to just the opening.

Yeah.

I was like, let's stop there. Let's stop there and take that in for a second. And then it switched. I wasn't even ready for the switch, but I was like, let me go. Let me go with this.

And it's so good.

Then I could see it in, like, the beginning or the end of so many TV shows.

Right?

Like, I was like, oh, yeah. This is.

This is the guy that wrote that song, Tommy James, and performed it and recorded it a year after that. Wow. We just listened to James and the Shondel. He sang Mony Moany. Oh, that was another song that, like. That was a famous song that. What's His Face? The guy with the hair.

God damn it.

Billy Idol. Billy Idol came out with it. He won one. Wow. Which also seems like a million years ago. That was when I was in high school. How weird, man.

I know. First of all, weird, the. When he. When Loopty Loop was a hit and then he made the other song and it wasn't a hit. I know. He was pissed.

I know. Can you imagine?

Imagine, like that's. That's what y' all like. Loopty Loop. Y' all ain't heard alive. This is. I've just listened to their live.

It's. Sometimes people just put it all together for once. I mean, that's the thing about songs, right? Like the one hit wonder thing.

Yeah.

It's a different time. I mean, it was the early 60s. They're coming out. I don't know how big before the drugs, radio, you know, early 60s, people were still naive. They were goofy.

Yeah.

They were still father knows best, you.

Know, they're all, father knows best.

Leave it to Beaver. They were goofy. People are goofy in 63. By 69, they got wild. It was real quick.

I wonder what people with Internet minds back then did. Drugs or people with Internet mind, Internet mentality. How did they mask in society? How did they.

Comic books. They read a lot of comic books. Yeah. They went to comic book shops. They went to like punk rock concerts.

Yeah.

Yeah. They had a, like, fine group. They went to CBGBs.

Yeah.

They had to find places where they could fit in.

There's no online forums for that.

No. It was a factory for turning people in. Into drones.

Right.

That was society back then. Turn you into a worker drone.

Yeah. Oof. Yeah. Because school already trains us for it.

Yep.

Like every bit. The bell rings, you get up, you go to the next class.

And it's designed for that.

Yeah.

It's not the best way to teach kids. And guys like you and I, they label you as like ADHD or something, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

Labeled.

I didn't get labeled because I don't know why. I kind of like my father and them was like, you know, they're immigrants. They like. So you got to work hard, you know what I mean? So you gotta like apply yourself. And this is a. They went out of their way to provide this opportunity. So I didn't want to blow it up to a certain point, but after a certain point, like, I was gonna do comedy, which was something that they did expect or would have wanted me to do. But high school and college, like, I didn't mind, you know what I mean? Maybe around college, that's when shit started to get like a little wonky. But the high school shit, like, all right, I can get some good grades. I Can follow that blueprint up until there and a little bit after. But ending college, that's when shit.

Like, well, then they're prepping you for the real world. And you realize it's going to be your whole day doing it you don't want to do. And there's no joy in Mudville. You're like, right. Unless you're into it. Unless, like, college is like, whatever subject that you want to pursue in life is. That's the way to go, you know, if you want to be an astronomer, that's how you learn, you know? But for her comic, like, college is just like, why? Why am I forced to do this? Like, why am I making myself do this? Like, what is the end goal if I get a job, I'm right.

I knew I always wanted to, like, have. Make a decent amount of money and be middle class. That was the. I was like, so you gotta go to college, right, to do that. That's the way we were programmed.

Right.

But the instant comedy came into my mind, it was never a risk for me. Like, I was never risking that stability for the gamble of comedy.

What did it feel like instead of a risk?

The only thing to do.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

Like this. There was a switch. And once you turned it on, that was broke. It couldn't go back the other way. And this is what we was doing. Yeah.

That's kind of how you have to be if you want to do it. I think that's the same with music. I think that's the same with literature. You want to write books.

I feel lucky about it, though.

Yeah, for sure.

Because there's people that were able to turn their switch back off. Mine is still on.

Yeah, well, that's because you're doing the right thing. You're doing the thing that you're supposed to be doing.

Right.

When people. There's. There's people that turn that switch off because there's something else drags them in. Or they can't beat their demons.

Right? Right.

You know, there's a lot of people that. There's a lot of different. There's some demons or, like, they're not even dark demons. They're like gray demons. Like depression. You can't be the demon of a dull depression. They don't. They don't have the energy to write. They don't have the energy to perform. They don't have the energy to eat healthy. They don't have the energy to do. And then they just settle into a mundane life because they can't beat Those demons. And they also don't have support. There's a lot of those dudes that get real dark because they don't have support. They're not friends.

Listen. And I. And I feel. I don't. I feel bad for those people. I don't. I don't know. We don't even know what happened to this guy who we just played. Like, what? Right?

What went wrong?

What went wrong? What deterred him? What took him off track. Right. But he clearly had something. I've seen people with something, and I, like, I remember. Damn. I don't know if I can remember his name. We're all doing open mic mics. Like, we're grinding, we're bombing. Then this guy comes in one night and he's at the Governor's. He goes on stage. He's our age. He rips. I mean, we're like, even.

We're like, wow.

Hey, man, what's your name? Tells us his name. Might come to me in a minute. I say, how many. How long you been doing it? This my first time. And then it was like that every time he went on stage and we hung out with him, and it was just. We're like, this guy is like. We're pleased for him and we're his biggest fans, and we angry at him at the same time. And then he just disappeared.

Yeah.

Yeah. Then I ran into him in Queens and he was kind of doing it, but it wasn't the same. Like, the Muhammad Ali thing. He stopped training for enough years to, like, lose it all, to not even be as good as the first time we saw him, which was his first time.

One of the reasons why I talk about the way I approach things is because I think. I wish someone had told me the little pitfalls that life will throw you and the little games that will be played in front of you where you have to make decisions of which way to go. And if something went wrong, you got to make decision to pull yourself up and figure out how to make it better. Like, what do I have to do to keep going? But clearly, I'm on a path. Other people are doing this path. I got to figure out how to do this. Some people just get to those pitfalls, and then they never recover. They just. They just. They start drinking, they start eating too much, they start doing this, they start doing that. They get into a bad funk. They lose some money. They get into a toxic relationship. That's a big one. That's a big one. That's one of the big distractions that people do. And they don't even realize they're doing it. You're distracting yourself from having success in life by being addicted to this relationship that you're in with this person where you yell at each other.

And, you know, who knows? Who knows what your. Your particular brand of chaos is? But the one thing that it has in common, it's a gigantic distraction from you doing what you want to do in life, and you don't have your shit together, so you find someone else who doesn't have your shit together, and you pile all your shit together and make it way worse, right? And you both fuck each other's lives up. And at the end of it, maybe one of you write a song about it.

But that's when it's worth it. Like when you're talking about bad relationships, I like, that's material.

It is material.

It is material.

It's a lot of fun.

I never go on a bad relationship date because if the date is good, it's good. If it's bad, then it's material. You know what I mean?

That's true.

So comics complain about dates. I'm like, that's an experience. That's some shit you could bring to the stage, right? Like, why are you down about this?

How many times does someone told you a crazy story, like, in the green room or something like that? You're like, have you said that on stage yet?

Yeah.

Like, no. Can I?

Yeah. I tell people all the time like that. Like, sometimes my friend, he just broke up with his girl. He's sad. He's talking about it. I was like, damn, this nigga don't know how funny he's about to be. And he's crying. He's crying like.

Some of the greatest comedy came out of broken hearts. Yeah, look at Kinison. I was married twice. This whole thing, yeah, this whole thing was like, just getting his heart broken. One of his best bits was he sat at the piano and sang a love song to his ex there. It's like, I hope you die. I hope you slide under a gas truck and taste your own blood. Die. I want my records back. I want my records back. And you looked at it. You just believed it all. Cuz, like, of course he's a little fat guy with no hair. People are going to dump on him. It's not going to work out, you know, even if you're famous and you look like that, gonna. They're gonna get tired of you.

He's a walking underdog story without walking underdog, without even fucking explaining it and turning that shit into something.

Yeah.

How do you not gravitate towards that? Like every heartbreak that I've experienced, like underneath in me, I'm like, man, don't worry, once this cloud lifts, you'll be able to talk about this on stage. Like, yeah, that's, that's a part of like the survival. That's how far gone in this I am. And I'm just realizing it now as I talk to you.

That's funny.

Yeah, that's how it's like. Yeah, it's like trying to think of like when bad. Like I got into somebody hit my car, I was like this going on stage or just anything.

Yeah.

Like sometimes I'm. When I. I don't have that many civilian friends anymore, but sometimes I used to just complain on the phone about an interaction.

You know what's funny? Like military people do not like us talking about non comedians or civilians.

We at war, baby. I'm just kidding. I know. I cannot. Military people, I get that, I get it.

But that is a term we have used forever.

Forever.

Forever.

Forever ever. Like the first time I heard somebody say it, I was like, how did you know that? I said, I say that. The first time I ever heard a comic refer to other to non comics as civilians, I was like, that's what I say in my head. How the fuck did you. And it's like, nobody's stealing it from each other. But all our terms are related to battle. Like bomb killed, died, died. You know what I mean? So it's like we all got battle terms.

Yeah, well, because it is kind of a mental battle, right. There's a weird battle of control and there's always a lot of drunk people in the audience that don't want you taking control. They want to take control of you. I mean, Donnell Rollins got his start as a heckler.

Hilarious.

Don L. Rollins. That's how he proudly. He's like, I'm a proud heckler, son. Really funny. But it's like, so it is kind of. There's a battle too, and it's also a battle of your own, yourself. There's a battle inside of you to try to like what we were talking about before, to get to that flow state.

Yeah.

Like, what is that battle?

Yeah.

There's some nights I don't have it, I don't. It doesn't come. And then other nights it's right there. The moment I start talking, I'm smiling, I'm in the groove. And it's like we.

Do you have an inkling of it before?

Yeah.

Did you do anything to get there?

I always think about that. Generally, it has to be a day that I work out. Like, for me, I work out. Work out so much that if I don't work out, I get a little. Just a little tense.

First of all, you're in disrespectful shape. You're. You're. You're in shapeness is disrespectful to me.

Well, you got to eat meat if you want to get in this kind of shape, son. I get soybeans.

Where the elk ate some today.

Yeah, I cooked up some heart. I cooked up some heart for. For lunch. It's good, right?

For lunch, yeah.

That's what I ate. Elkart.

Elkart. It.

That's. That's a big key, man. Protein, animal protein. It's very important for. If you want to keep going, you. The thing is, it's, like, way easier to keep going, though, than it is to get going. Like, if you're 58 and you start working out now, like, that's hard. But if you're 58 and you've been working out for. For me, like, 40 years.

Right.

You know, it's not. I mean, like, hard for 40 years. More than that. 15. So, yeah, more than that. Like, I probably started working out when I started wrestling, so that was like, 14.

Yeah.

Karate was around the same time, then taekwondo from 15 on. So I've always worked out, right. It's like, so my body just. If. If I don't work out for a day, my body's like, what's going on?

Hilarious.

I'm trying to get rid of this stuff. Like, I don't want any anxiety. I know. Any tension. I want to blow it out.

You probably sleepwalk into the gym. You probably, like, wake up sometimes, like, oh, I worked out.

Yeah.

Like, I didn't. You press the button for the code, and you was in there. You had no idea.

Well, that's why I like things that you can't sleepwalk through. Like, if you're doing, like, heavy rounds on the bag, like, you can't sleep walk through 10 rounds in the bag. When that seventh round comes around, you look at the timer, you're like, fuck, I got three more rounds. Pounds.

You do 10?

Yeah, just got. I mean, I do it at my own pace. It's not kind of fighting, but it's, you know, 10, where you're. You're going at it, and it's. It. But that's the point. The point is that when it's done, I'm like, Ah, I did it. And it's really. 10 is only 30 minutes of work.

Yeah, I know. Yeah. Fighting. Is fighting this taxing?

If this is 103 minute rounds when I hit the. At the back. But like, think about a MMA fight is five minute rounds. That's crazy.

Yeah, that's pretty.

That's crazy. And another dude is trying to kill you.

Yeah.

For five minutes.

And you're getting hit in that time.

And you're getting choked and body slammed, your arms getting yanked out, squeezed.

Yeah.

Then you have to recover. They got ice on your shin in between rounds. Like, am I doing with my life? I should have went to school.

Yeah. That is a crazy mentality type of life. But God bless them.

God bless them. And they, they have to be all in too. The way you're all in with comedy and you always have been. They have to be all in with fighting. And even then there's no guarantee because there might be a Mike Tyson in your division, there might be a Sugar Ray Leonard, there might be a Floyd Mayweather, it might be a dude you're never catching up to, like Crawford.

Yeah. Like I say, like, I don't know much about fighting and I've learned a lot from you. I remember we did a show in, I think Denver and there was this female fighter. She came backstage and she was up there and she just had a kid and she's still gonna fight, but she's like, there's other things to life. I'm gonna like, raise my son and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then once she said there's other things to life, and I was like, you're in my. Just in my head and you're a fighter. And just the way she said it and some other things, I was like, she shouldn't fight no more. And I watched all her fights after that and she might have won one, but she. Yeah, she didn't. She didn't. And she was. I can't remember her name per se, but I just remember her saying that.

You'Re the king of that. Not being able to remember. Leave us with mysteries.

You're welcome. I'm out.

The comments are gonna try to find that dude that you said is the best fight fighter ever. They're scouring right now.

Yeah, somebody came up with that.

Yeah. It's a thing that you have to. You have to either want to be a world champion, you have to want to be the best in the world, or you have to be willing to accept that you're a journeyman. And if you're Willing to accept that you're just doing it for a paycheck. It's a crazy way to make a living. But there are a lot of guys out there that they get to a point where they realize, I'm never going to be champion, but I'm still going to make a lot of money, right? And I'm still going to have some good fights. As long as I don't have to fight any world champions, I can be successful 60% of the time. Maybe 70 if you're lucky.

How much hard way to live, though. It's a hard way to live. How much, like, what's the average, like, paycheck for a fight for a fighter like that you just described?

It depends on how much they have crowd popularity, right? Like, if you're a Donald Cerrone, Cowboy Cerrone, who never won the title, but.

He was a guy who loved Cerrone.

He. He would make some real good money. Real good money. I don't want to talk out of school. I don't know what his checks were, right? But you could get rich. You could be a multimillionaire like Sean Strickland. He was just talking about it in one of his Instagram stories. That's why I could say this, where he said he's got about $4 million in the bank.

That's good.

I'm like, that's amazing.

Yeah. And He's. He's, what, 30s?

He's in his 30s. He's still top of the food chain, one of the best in the world in his division. And he's got money set aside. Like, that's a smart dude, right? You got to kind of be able to do that. Because if you don't do that and then you run out of fighting and you run out of money and you run options and you run out of ideas. You don't know what to do. That's a terror. See, we could do what we do. Dom Aero said this to me once. He was, like 65 years old, and he got off stage, he murdered. And he goes, Joey, he goes. One of the things I love about this game, he's like, as long as you're in it, you're still getting better. He's like, I'm still getting better, right? And it was. It was beautiful to watch, because it's true. Like, Rodney Dangerfield deep into his 70s, killing, killing. George Carlin, deep into his late 80, late ages before he died, killing, you know, you could still do it. And with fighting, there's a time where you're all, this fails you right? All the shoulders fail, the back fails, the neck fails, the wheels fall off and then you can't take a shot anymore and you got to get out.

Out. Yeah, I seen it in boxing, cuz that's the, the, the combat sport that I've watched the most growing up. Now I'm going to mention another name that I can't remember. So there was this black guy who was fighting a Mexican guy, but they're big name guys.

Melric Taylor. Julio Cesar Chavez.

Boom. That fight.

Yeah.

Never the same after that. Oh, shit. Yeah.

Look at that.

He was winning the fight.

Yep, yep. Winning it, winning it. Got winning it.

Chase chased him down.

Yep. Got stopped in the last seconds of the last round. And Meldrick Taylor was never the same.

Never, never the same, ever, ever, bro.

Never the same again.

All the skill.

Yep.

All the technique.

Yep.

And he was a great fighter.

Great Olympic gold medalist.

Yes.

World champion.

Yeah. He never, he didn't enter. Leave that ring the way he went in.

Yep.

And he was good enough to beat Chavez. Mm.

Crazy.

Kind of, because he lost, but he almost beat Chavez and that would have been a great moment. Huge, Huge. Huge.

But the amount of damage he took up until that final blow was already sealed his fate for the rest of his life. Even if he never got hit with that last punch, if he just made it to the final bell and raised his hands up and they gave him the decision, you know, and no. If they did that, he still is never the same again.

Yeah.

Because Chavez was just breaking him down. Breaking him down. And then you not around those guys the next day. That's the saddest thing about the ufc. Would I run into dudes who lost the next day at the airport? And you see him at the airport and like one eye is completely shut. They got bandages on their forehead where they got cut open, their arms in a sling, and they're shuffling because their legs are so beat up they can barely walk. And you see them get on the plane, you're like, whoa. They got sunglasses on. And, and they're just. And everybody's like, that's like, I fell last night. He got knocked out.

And you see him walking by sometimes. That's the winner, too.

Oh, yeah.

That's how brutal that. Oh, yeah.

Oftentimes that's the winner. But you, you would see those guys at the airport. You're like, wow, that's a, that's, that's a wake up call. Because it's not just the night of the fight. It's like, how long is it going to be before you feel normal again.

Right? Yeah. You brought up Bernard Hopkins earlier and he has, the way he fought was. I ain't getting cte. First of all, you may hit me and if it is, it's you're going to hit me while I'm holding you. And you ain't get no force or no power.

Right.

And people are gonna cuss and say I'm a dirty fighter and let the motherfucker go. This is not a dance.

Yep.

And this ain't the electric slide or the two step, but I am not getting no brain damage like Muhammad Ali used to move. Bernard would come to you, hug you, pap pap, hug you again. Pap pap, hug you again. People paid their money, curse this out, but they still come back to see this motherfucker whole.

Yeah, he frustrated the shit out of people, but he did some people up too.

Yeah.

When he up, Felix Trinidad, that was, that was crazy. That was a big one because everybody thought Trinidad was going to kill him.

I thought was going to kill him.

He was a bad motherfucker. Deep into his late 40s. Yes, late 40s, world class. That's crazy.

If you don't let him fight, you could fight for a long ass time. You could just keep fighting. Just don't let him fight. He knew all the arm locks, but.

Even him, like the last fight he had against Joe Smith Jr. He got knocked out of the ring and fell on his head. And he was 50 years old.

That's a, that's old, bro.

I know. And the guy who was fought, the guy who fought Joe Smith Jr. Is a murderous puncher. Just murderous puncher. And he was just hitting Bernard with these haymakers and Barnard went through the ropes and the ropes were loose and he fell out of the ropes and landed on his head. That's how the fight is.

He's too old to be doing it. First of all. He's too old to like, like you said, your body goes so that probably also have the strength. No, his body's not so also falling.

Out of the the ring and no one catches you and you land on your head. That's crazy.

It's almost makes up for all the punches he missed exactly his entire career all in that one moment.

I mean, that's a car wreck.

Yeah.

That could you up for the rest of your life.

Life.

Yeah. We're lucky. We're lucky we picked a thing that doesn't give you brain damage. Keep doing forever and ever.

Yeah. Or we were just made this way. Or it picked us I don't know. What is this too serendipitous? But I'm glad.

I'm glad, too. Yeah, I'm glad we've been friends all this time, too. Yeah, we've had a fun ride.

Yeah, we had a fun ride. Let's keep this going tonight.

You doing my show tonight?

I'm leaving. I'm going back to Kelly. You ain't gonna like that answer.

So I even ask, do you have to go back? Can we change your flight?

I got a writing job.

Oh, you gotta be there tomorrow.

So I gotta be there tomorrow.

Okay.

All right.

Yeah, it was a writing job. That velvet prison, son.

I'm trying to break out. That's why I got this special. And I'm gonna keep putting out specials, bro.

Okay.

Yeah.

Beautiful.

Yeah.

All right, brother. Well, tell everybody. What's the name of it? Where is it? On YouTube. YouTube.

So on YouTube, at. Ian Edwards, stand up.

Untitled.

It's called Untitled. And all the money from the views and the adsense goes to victims of the LA fire.

Oh, beautiful.

Yeah, I don't want.

For real, though. For real, for real, for real. Like, unlike the. All those other gigantic.

You know me, I've never scammed anybody. No, you know what I mean? I'm just like. I was there in LA when it happened, and it was devastating. Staten, did you do this in the La Hoya? Yeah, at the Comedy Store.

The LA Hoya. Such a great room. That's such a great room.

Yeah.

Beautiful. All right. You're the best. I love you. I love you.

I love you, family.

All right, bye, everybody.