Transcript of “It’s Never Too Late” to Reclaim Your Story, Your Power & Your Life! Monica Lewinsky Reveals All! (Pt 2)

Coming up in this incredible part 2 conversation with Monica Lewinsky.

I was trying to get small again because that feels safe to me, and the universe is like, uh-uh, you gotta do more. Having been through so much public humiliation and shame and carted it around for a long time, all I can say is that I know it's possible for it to get better. I had Bell's palsy a few years ago, and it was so surprising to me how not freaked out I was. Those are the kinds of— when you're expansive.

What role, if any, did faith play?

What can be hard with trauma is sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between your trauma protective reaction, a hypervigilance, and your intuition. There are still times today that I feel the shame. You know, I can feel it in my body. It's sort of— it's there. It's on my shoulders or it's in my stomach or, you know, it's just a kind of wanting to protect myself feeling. And they happen less if you're gonna be out there wanting to shine as brightly as you can. And that's a different kind of beauty.

Yes. You say reclaiming is taking back what was yours. Was there a moment where you're like, I am taking my power back, I'm taking my story back?

When I wrote the Vanity Fair essay in 2014, that essay led to me giving the Forbes 30 Under 30 talk, which led to me being able to start doing anti-bullying work and my TED Talk. And even from there, but there were women who had gone to TED for a long time who didn't feel I belonged on that stage, who skipped my session as a form of protest, which they're of course allowed to. The healing and the reclaiming comes from it not hitting you as hard, it not keeping you as down for as long. But I think one of the ways social media has been positive for me is people have connected to my humor.

Monica Lewinsky is the host of the wildly successful podcast called Reclaiming. So make sure you check that out right away. It's so good. She's also a producer, social and anti-bullying activist, activist, global public speaker, and a contributing editor to Vanity Fair. Her focus is on storytelling that moves the conversation forward around shame, reclaiming identities, and justice for women. She's also the executive producer of The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox, out now on Hulu. Monica's TED Talk on the price of shame has been viewed by over 22 million people Monica holds a master's degree from the London School of Economics. She's also smart, incredibly witty, maybe the best curator of Instagram content that will make you literally laugh out loud daily. And whether today you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I wanna welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family. And if you're here right now, can you do me a favor? If you like the show and you love the guests that I bring you, can you please hit the subscribe or follow button on the app that you're listening or watching on? It truly means the world to me.

Thank you. And also, I want to remind you, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person that you know, because what you're about to hear will change your life and theirs.

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Jamie Kern Lima. You say at 39, um, that you maybe wondered if you'd make it out of 39?

Yeah, it was an avalanche of disappointments that happened. And all of those disappointments became blessings. So, you know, everything that fell apart, it was, it really was, for my own good. And it is so hard to see that when you're in it.

When you're in it.

It is so hard. But I think that I always feel one of the most important parts of sharing our stories, as we do in whatever medium, right, whether it's a podcast or a book or a conversation one-on-one, what is so important about it is the— the wisdom and the hopeful bits, they get stored somewhere in us, even if we didn't choose to. And they're there. And they may just come peek out and whisper, you know, in some of the darkest moments. And I feel like that's the benefit, that's the beauty of doing these kinds of stories. And so, for me, I'm sure that I had some of those lodged in there for me, but it's also why I enjoy talking about this period, like, even though it was so difficult and so painful, is because actually, 10 years later, I found myself in some similar situations, which could have led to the same kind of falling apart. Yeah. But because I had gone through that experience before, I took a totally different tactic. I had different emotional reactions to it. I didn't fall apart. And instead, I just— I recognize, okay, I see what happened here.

I was trying to get small again, 'cause that feels safe to me. And the universe is like, uh-uh, you gotta do more. So it is, and being able to lean into that and recognize, okay, if I'm gonna do that, well, I need more help. So how am I gonna get more help to do that? And it was a very different experience for me. So I mean, a lot of people, I'm grateful, a lot of people in my life who've been with me for a long time would say, wow, I was really surprised. I had Bell's palsy a few years ago, and it was so surprising to me how not freaked out I was. Once I went to the neurologist and she was like, well, worst case scenario, you just get a lot of Botox and filler and this and that. And I think once I was like, okay, I can look worst case scenario, I look semi-normal. All right, let's just see what happens. And I think those are the kinds of when you're expansive.

Yes. So many people, even right now, like feel so alone in their shame. What are some insights in how you've navigated your whole journey through experiencing shame and where you're at with it today.

Yeah, I still experience shame around some of the same things as before, but definitely not as deeply. I don't have shame around as many things as I did back then. But I think in a way, what's really impacted me, and I think what helped me, were the things people gave me. So the different ways that my friends might send me something funny or someone who would encourage me, like, "I know you feel like you can't pick up the phone and even just make an appointment to have a session. You know, can I call and do that for you?" Someone, this will sound so stupid and material, somebody giving me a really nice birthday gift of like a fancy thing that I wanted that I couldn't afford. It meant the world to me. You know, it just— because I think it's the little ways that we sort of plug the holes, and that helps. It helps hold someone. I don't know that that— does that make sense?

It does make sense. Yeah. I think that's so valuable because a lot of us know we have a friend right now that's going through it. And it's like just hearing also what mattered to you and how people showed up.

Right. And I think that that's— equally important. We can never know what someone else is, like, actually experiencing and going through. We can imagine it, right? You know, especially if we've gone through it. And having been through so much public humiliation and shame and carted it around for a long time, all I can say is that I know it's possible for it to get better.

I don't know when that will happen for someone, What role, if any, did faith play in it and in your life right now?

Yeah, I am spiritual, not religious. So it depends on how you want to define faith, right? I think that there is— and it can be hard for people with trauma, but there is a knowingness in us. And the ability to hear the whispers. What can be hard with trauma is sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between your trauma protective reaction, a hypervigilance, and your intuition. So it's, you know, trying to work on those things, trying to notice when things are different, trying to notice a small shift, that I made and just going, "Okay, that's a little different. It's 10% different than—" I mean, that's one of the people I've worked with, like, she's always talking about the 10% rule. You know, she's like, "Okay, how can you clear 10% of the clutter from the drawer? How can you clear 10% of the clutter from your mind right now?" And those other things of just making small, you know, small steps and—

Do you believe God exists?

Ooh, I believe there is a universal, force and power and energy. And I think there is a part of me that believes a God exists. But there's a part of me that just sees it as something bigger, and to me, more magical, because I know for many people, there could be nothing more magical than God. And I totally respect that. I think for me, sometimes what I struggle with a little bit with the idea of God is that it feels personified and idolized. And therefore, because it feels like it is put into almost a human form, it's always this idea of we're less than, we're always less than. And so, I think that's sometimes That's what I struggle with. And I struggle with the question I think a lot of people do, whether it's God or a universal force of, then why is there so much suffering? And some people would say, like, I believe in a lot of different dimensions and that we exist in different dimensions and the multiverse. It's very exciting to me that for this, with these younger generations that we had, you know, Everything Everywhere All at Once and some of the Marvel movies that they're talking about the multiverse.

And I'm like, these are in mainstream media. It's amazing to me. So a lot of people will talk about the third dimension, we're in the body and that's part of our experience here, what we sign up for to come to this fucking crazy school. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I know you have very deep faith.

I do. All the questions you have that you just posed, and I just had the most— oh, Monica, the most incredible conversation with Pastor Erwin McManus, who believes so strongly in science. And I ask all the questions. It is so good. It's gonna come out after our episode, but I'll send it to you. it's exactly what you shared is how so many people feel, right? Because I think from our human perspective too, there's so much we can't see or prove or that even makes sense. When you get your intuition and those whispers, do you feel it comes from that energy, that collective energy or something greater than yourself?

I think it is a channeling. I think it is being open to— source. I think ideas come through us. Creativity comes through us. And it's really about trying to, I think, be as open and clear as possible.

With identity and with shame, and there's so many parts of your journey, and I love that you're sharing at age 39 and going into 40. Would you say Would you say that year was— because you've been open about, you know, when you're 24 and going, "Do I wanna wake up the next day?" and being in so much pain. Would you say age 39, 40 was harder or more dark of a time?

I think that there were— I don't know that it was one specific thing. Specific year per se, but I think there were times, you know, that's the year I sort of ended up coming out of the dark decade. But there were a lot of times in the latter half of the dark decade, in particular, that were hard, that were really hard.

I think everyone can relate to this, that whether it's in school, in their job, in their in-laws' family, we've all experienced hurtful things people say about us. And How did it impact you when you would hear somebody, maybe in the media, or maybe in a comment somewhere, maybe they're trying to be funny on a show, or whatever it is, and they actually use you and who you are as— in a comment that maybe is hurtful or implies that you're maybe unworthy of— love or being somebody's partner, being whatever it might be?

I think for me, I experienced it as if you almost think about those buckets of like, as a bag or a backpack, right? And I have many. There's, you know, marriage or how I look or a career, you know, my sexuality or how my physicality, I was just all of those things. Yes. Every time somebody would do that, they were handing me a brick that had to go in that bag that I had to carry around. And so, that is where there's the damage that we do to ourselves. It's like a symbiotic relationship, right? Because if we have feelings of a lack of self-worth, then we engage with that negativity. And it's almost like, there was a receptor that was sort of waiting for it to happen of like, this could be happening, I worry that this is what's wrong with me. And someone else says it and gives it to you, you sort of end up, it just weighs you down even more. It makes whatever has been there worse. And I think that it's, there are still times today that I feel the shame, you know, I can feel it in my body.

It's sort of, It's on my shoulders or it's in my stomach or, you know, it's just a kind of wanting to protect myself feeling. And they happen less. And also because I think I've had many more positive experiences or even there've been more photos that I don't cringe when I see them of myself out there. It just, it sort of ameliorates any of the, the negativity I might have felt when that was all that was out there. You know, negative headlines or unattractive photos, that it just, it balances it.

And so— I don't know a single woman that has ever been in any type of public role whose appearance wasn't criticized. Yeah. Right? It doesn't even matter if she's running for president or she's, you know, I don't know a single one. I remember when I became a news anchor for the first time. So, I'm public in the tiniest market in the tiniest town. And I'll never forget the first time someone wrote in and talked about my weight, or how my chin is so big, or how this, or how that. And I just remember starting to process that for the first time. And hearing that you say things like that can feel like a brick, and another brick, and another brick, I so get that. And I feel like everyone can relate to that right now. We're in a world now where, the person who wanted to be private and do a private job as a lawyer, they now have a public profile and their face is online and their Yelp review. And you just get these bricks. But I've never known a woman in particular who hasn't gotten feedback, negative criticism of her appearance if she's public.

Did that happen to you? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I was, you know, really torn apart for every aspect of my physicality, you know, so— How did that impact you?

And does it at all today? Sure.

I mean, I'm human and a woman. I'm, like, of course impacted by how people receive me, you know, today and publicly. It leads to a lot of extra anxiety or waste of time of things of just how much you put into thinking about that. I think there's so many things that all kind of work in concert in terms of the more healing work you're doing, the lighter you are, the lighter you feel, and that there's more light that can shine out of you. Yes. It's about more than just the makeup we slap on and the great outfit we put on and whether or not our jeans fit perfectly that day or too tight or too loose or whatever that is. I did Kundalini yoga for a little while.

How was that?

It was so hard.

Was it hard? I've never tried it. I want to.

Yeah, it was really hard. But I was fascinated by the glow of so many of the women that I saw who were quite diligent in their practice and in their lifestyle. But not just being about what they're eating, You know, it was also around their resonance, their vibration, what they're connecting with, how they're moving their bodies. And that was attractive to me, you know, was sort of a, you know, this— an idea of just, if you're gonna be out there, wanting to shine as brightly as you can. And that's a different kind of beauty. Than what we're used to commenting on. Right. You know.

Do you feel beautiful? We need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire. Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter, and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected and more worthy. In life, you don't soar to the level level of your hopes and dreams, you stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy: How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life for You. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you. In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results. Like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome, achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them, and so much more.

Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy. Who you spend time around is So important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernlima.com to make sure you're on the list. And you'll get your One-on-One with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl.

Subscribe at jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes. Do you struggle with negative self-talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful, and when you learn to take control over your self-talk, it's life-changing. And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life. It's called 5 Ways to Overcome Negative Self-Talk and Build Self-Love. And it's a free how-to guide to overcome that negative self-talk to build confidence and develop unshakable self-love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self-sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life, one filled with self-love, resilience, and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence, and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekernlima.com/resources or click the link in the show notes below.

And now more of this incredible conversation together. Do you feel beautiful?

Sometimes. Sometimes, you know, it's probably not as much as I wish I did.

You know, so. Yeah. I think it's easy for friends to look at another friend and be like, "Do they see themselves?" You know? So I'm curious.

Well, I think I, you know, when I was younger, I remember my grandma used to say to me like, "Oh, you have a classic beauty. Older people see your beauty." Like, I wasn't conventionally beautiful. Intentionally pretty for my age in my grade or when I was younger. And I think, and then, you know, from things that happened, I was like in '98 of being called the Portly Pepperpot in the New York Post, of the cartoons, the, you know, all the late night shows, the Halloween costumes. I mean, all of those things, you know, whatever insecurities I had going into that year, that all exacerbated it, you know, and put it on steroids. So reclaiming that, connecting to myself, all of those things. We often hear about these kinds of stories and change as if there was a moment where we arrived and it's like you crossed a finish line and you're like, "You reclaimed, you survived, you're healed." And it's not like that at all. You know, it's really, it's looking at things almost in the way of averages, you know, of like, okay, are things better?

Yeah. You say reclaiming is taking back what was yours, something that you possess is lost or stolen, and ultimately, you triumph in finding it again. I'm so excited to talk about your show and also about just so many different areas of life and how we reclaim them. Was there a moment where you're like, "Okay, I am taking my power back, I'm taking my story back, I'm taking my narrative back"? Was it a gradual thing? It was gradual. Gradual.

It was gradual because when I wrote the Vanity Fair essay in 2014, which was really this sort of first, you know, public statement or anything, um, really public that I'd done in 10 years. It was— none of us knew how it was gonna land. And so I had been trying to plan these other things, and I was like, "Okay, well, I'm gonna be strategic, and I'm gonna do this, and after this happens, then that." That essay, when that came out, women everywhere were cheering, were screaming, "Hell yes," were also having aha moments.

Yeah.

But there were a lot of people and women who were still on the old narrative train and didn't see that. And even, you know, it was that essay led to me giving the Forbes 30 Under 30 talk, which led to me being able to start doing anti-bullying work and my TED Talk. And even from there, but there were, There were women who had gone to TED for a long time who didn't feel I belonged on that stage, who skipped my session as a form of protest, which they're of course allowed to. But it wasn't— there was never, nor does it feel to me right now, as if there are these gates that are wide open that I have crossed into a land where those other things won't happen or can't happen again. And they sometimes happen in smaller ways. But I think the healing and the reclaiming comes from it not hitting you as hard, it not keeping you as down for as long. And so, you know, I'll talk about— I consider— I have road rage, and I consider when I'm in the car and I've, like, called someone a fuckface, but I haven't flicked them off yet, and I stop myself from also flicking them off, That's a reclaiming.

Like, I have— I lost my control and I have taken it back. And so, these small things that happen all the time, you know, there— we have those kinds of moments. And I just— I don't think it's ever binary of like, it's now done, you're now healed. It's now, you know, I still— I mean, my publicist and I, I think so much of sometimes what she has to do now is hold my hand through the trauma that resurfaces of old things, of like, "Oh, no, it's gonna be okay. It's not too much.

It's not, you know, those headlines aren't gonna happen again." Do you think, you know, you mentioned earlier this idea of like, "Oh, people will just get to know me, then it's gonna be okay." Do you feel like when that Vanity Fair article came out, and especially, especially younger generations, but also a lot of women, all generations, do you feel like, "Oh, they're starting to get to know me, what I've gone through, who I am, who I'm becoming," that kind of thing?

Yes, and I think, you know, this is— we see all the real perils of social media. But I think one of the ways social media has been positive for me is people have connected to my humor or my sense of how I observe things. And I'll go from something funny and stupid to funny and smart to heartfelt to heartbreaking. And they're all reflections of me, but also me and how I see the world. I see the world too, that I know there are other people, or imagine there are other people out there who will laugh at the same thing, or for whom they needed that little extra message of a push, you know, today too.

Yes. I have to say, I know I said it in the beginning, if you are not on Monica's Instagram, I'm telling you right now, your life's about to get better. Your life's about to get better. You're about to laugh more in your day. You're about to feel more seen more. You're— I always— and, and I think this is a proven fact— you have to be so smart to be funny, right? You have to be so smart.

I will— it's funny when people are saying, well, what are you looking for in a guy? And am I— well, definitely, you know, funny, witty, because if you're funny or witty, like, you, you are smart. So, yeah, um, but it's— I had a really nice thing happen. I gave a talk, I think it was last year, It's so hard to remember the years post-COVID. It's like, was it last year or 3 years ago? I don't know. But I gave a talk. There was a sort of meet and greet kind of thing after. And this young woman came up and she was telling me how she was working. She worked nights to put herself through school and that she loved my stories and that she always found that they kind of made her laugh when she needed to laugh and cry when she needed to cry. And that was really the first moment I had of like, oh, okay, you know, you don't always know on social media with things of, you know, if something's connecting. I mean, I have a few of my friends that don't know each other that I'm constantly going, okay, you guys really need to be friends because you all send me the same thing that you found funny.

Do people send you stuff, say post this?

Because it's like— Not so much that, but people who will sort of, you know, put the laughing emoji as a comment to the story. And so, it's often the handful of same people who find the same things funny. You know, or— and actually, Amy Griffin, that I know you had on, you know, she and I, I think our friendship really deepened because it was like, "Oh, I feel that deep." You know, and she'd post things and it's a language, right? It's a language of— of finding similarity with people. And I think that's part of, part of what we're, we're so thirsty for today, right, is that connectivity. Yes. And the feeling, you know, we, we feel alone in so many different ways. And, and it's— the world is heavy right now. Yes. It's just heavy for those of us who are sensitive. Um, I love that.

Exactly what you said is how I feel when I'm on your stories. It's like I'll get something that so thought-provoking, or so just smart, or so compassionate. And then, it'll be laugh out loud, and then, it will be like self-deprecating, and then, it'll be, but that in a way we all can connect with, or it'll be like, "Oh yeah, I had those scratch and sniff stickers." Exactly. "Oh my gosh, I miss those." And you're like, "All are good but the popcorn one." I'm like, "That's right." And like, it's just this kind of—

I saw one this morning that was, I thought it was so funny. It was talking about, okay, remember those little sundaes we'd get at the cafeteria? That vanilla with the chocolate. And they were like, "But the wooden spoon, you have to have the wooden spoon, 'cause that's part of the taste of the ice cream." Yes, okay, I saw that in your stories this morning.

I was laughing out loud. The little swirl dish and ice cream with the wooden spoon. I'm like, "You're right, I do remember the taste of the wooden spoon. It's half the taste." It is, it is. And also, who knows what real ingredients were in that ice cream, but it was good.

Exactly.

It was good. No, the stuff that you find and that you post?

I mean, it's the algorithm. Like, I don't post everything, but I get served great, you know?

Yeah, well, you curate it so well. You curate it so well. So anyone not on Monica's Instagram, you're pretty much missing out. Come to the party. Yes, come to the party. This conversation is so powerful and so inspiring, we made it into more than one part. And coming up in this incredible and final part 3 of our conversation on reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky, if you've ever felt like your past, maybe a past mistake, a bad decision, an embarrassing failure, or something painful that's happened to you in your past is holding you back or defining who you are, maybe the past version of yourself that others knew you for has been lingering over you and keeping you stuck from stepping into the next most beautiful, powerful version of yourself, well, you are not going to want to miss this final part 3 with Monica coming up in the next episode of The Jamie Kern Lima Show. Remember, this episode's not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person that you know because it can change their life too. And if you love today's episode, please click the follow or subscribe button for the show on the app that you're listening or watching it on.

Give it a 5-star rating or review. And again, please share it with everyone that you believe in. Share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it. Post it and share it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today. You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. And thank you so much for joining me today. And before you go, I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You, right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. And it's an honor to welcome you to each and every episode of The Jamie Kern Lima Show. Here, I hope you'll come as you are, heal where you need, blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling, and stay as long as you like because you belong here. You are worthy. You are loved. You are love. And I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy: How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life for You. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you. In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome, achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them, and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy.

Who you spend time around is is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your One-on-One with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes. And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.