Transcript of Monica Lewinsky Reveals All: Life-Changing Lessons on Reclaiming Your Story, Your Power & Your Life! It’s Never Too Late!

You fell in love with your boss. Yours just happened to be the President of the United States and the most powerful man in the world. And married. And married.

So we need to own that.

That became one of the most public vilifications and collective public shameings of just about any woman in our history. I mean, the scale, the scale of the press, you instantly became a household name.

I remember waking up and I lived in the Watergate apartment complex. Newspapers down the entire hallway and seeing my name there for something that was awful and destructive to so many people, personally, watching myself be torn apart. And I already had self-esteem issues. I wouldn't have been in this situation if I didn't have self-esteem issues. I think that it was also reflective of women, how we feel about women, the same way that there were women tied to a post and burned at a stake and called a witch. Yes. And so those things have always been in our collective history. It was not a physical burning, but a public burning, but an emotional burning.

It wasn't called the Clinton Scandal. It was called the Lewinsky Scandal. It's your name everywhere.

It's your-And my family's name. Your family's name. It's not even just me, but everybody who had my last name suffered.

When someone has gone through so much. You've made it through to the point where you're helping others make it through. And that's what's so powerful. And that's what I'm most excited about today. You're in 40 rap songs or whatever the number is up to now.

Over 125.

125 rap songs.

Don't get residuals. Oh my gosh.

You're here. You have the power to reclaim your story, to reclaim the narrative of who you truly are, and to reclaim your life. And today we are talking I'm going to be talking about Reclaiming with my guest and friend, Monica Lewinsky. If you've ever felt like your past, maybe a past mistake, a bad decision, an embarrassing failure, or something painful that's happened to you in your past is holding you back or defining who you are. Maybe that past version of yourself that others knew you for has been lingering over you and keeping you stuck from stepping into the next most beautiful, powerful version of yourself. Today's episode is for you, and I am so excited for this. We can learn so much from each other's stories. And when we share powerful conversations like the one we're having today, together, it can help us feel less alone and more enough in this one miraculous life.

There were a number of moments where it just felt unbearable. I just did not think I could take another breath. The difficulty that I experienced in those first few years, in some ways, paled in comparison to what happened later when I really felt confronted with no future. I was naive in thinking that I still had this naive side to me that was like, Oh, well, when people get to know me, they get to really know me, then they'll like me. They'll understand. And that's not at all what happened. One aspect of a collective story is that the collective has to be ready, too. Right. And you're up against this just machine. Right. She called me and she was like, I had this realization that because you're in the collective consciousness, that when you shift your consciousness, you're shifting the consciousness of everybody whose mind you have been in. Shame, guilt, public humiliation. It's an amazing trifecta, Jamie.

What does that healing look like and what's worked.

It was really when I started doing the energetic work and the resonance work, that started to shift everything.

Really? And you shared you voted for her.

Yes, I did. I did.

Monica Lewinsky is the host of the wildly successful podcast called Reclaiming. So make sure you check that out right away. It's so good. She's also a producer, social and anti-bullying activist, global public speaker, and a contributing editor to Vanity Fair. Her focus is on storytelling that moves the conversation forward around shame, reclaiming identities and justice for women. She's also the executive producer of the Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox, out now on Hulu. Monica authored the legendary essay, Shame and Survival for Vanity Fair, in which she reexamined her personal experiences at the center of a political, legal, and global media firestorm connected to the impeachment of President Clinton and challenged the often misogynistic culture of shame that continues to cannibalize the powerless. Monica's TED Talk on the Price of Shame has been viewed by over 22 million people. Monica holds a master's degree from the London School of Economics. She's also smart, incredibly witty, maybe the best curator of Instagram content that will make you literally laugh out loud daily. She's a loving aunt, competitive majan player, and I'm so honored to say a loving friend. And whether today you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love, share this episode with you.

I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family. And if you're here right now, can you do me a favor? If you like the show and you love the guests that I bring you, can you please hit the subscribe or follow button on the app that you're listening or watching on? It truly means the world to me. Thank you. And also, I want to remind you this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person that you know, because what you're about to hear will change your life and theirs. Welcome to Jamie Kern Lima Show. Oprah, how have you defied the odd? Her show is unlike any I've ever done.

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Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima. Monica Lewinsky. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show. Thanks, Jamie. I'm so excited you're here.

I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

I've had the gift through mutual friends of us meeting and getting to know you. And my daughter's obsessed with making you charcuterie boards.

They are the best charcuterie boards. I know. She could have her own store.

A little chef wonder. Exactly. And it was so fun when we went to the viewing party of Shark Tank. I'll never forget this moment because I've never seen her do this before. We're all We're all in a group of friends watching the Shark Tank premiere that I did. And I look up and wonder sitting on your lap. She's sitting on your lap watching the whole show. I'm like, Oh. So you are a magnet for love because she's discerning. She's discerning. So I'm excited to just talk about all things reclaiming because I think it's a universal experience if we're blessed enough to do it. And I want to say also off the top, congratulations on your show that is exploding, that is so successful, like right out of the gate.

Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. I'm grateful. Very grateful. Yeah. Actually, what was really nice was I got, for me, what could have been the highest compliment from one of the young... I call her a producer, even though that's probably not her technical title on a show I'm working on right now who sent me an email, and she said, I don't know how you've done it, but when I finish listening, I feel less alone. And so that is just... I could not ask for anything more than for people to feel connected to the conversation. I know. I'm sure you feel this way, too, because you have that in your conversations. It's that there's something I think when people show up and it's an authentic space and you have good intentions, that people can feel it and they can plug in. Yeah.

Well, that's how I feel when I have conversations with you, just off camera, which is why I was so excited when you shared you're going to be launching your podcast. I'm like, Oh, that's going to be good. That's going to be good. And I know it's for every person scary to launch something new and to put yourself out there. But I already knew. I already knew from what happened, just from meeting you off camera and just having normal friend talks. I was like, Oh, this is going to be good. This is going to be good. So everyone listening, if you haven't checked out Reclaiming, go check it out right now. Make sure... Let me just do this for a friend right now. Make sure you follow it, subscribe, and leave a review and share it. Those are the most important things for a show. A lot of people don't know that.

So I'm like, Oh, you got to do that. I knew the subscribe one. So or follow. Is follow and subscribe the same thing, though?

Depending. Yeah. You can subscribe on YouTube, follow on like Google, Spotify, all the apps. Yeah. And then half the time they change what they use as their words. So it's so good. And just congratulations. I know how much work it is. And And you can feel it. You feel when someone's just opening their heart and when their intention, their intention is there. And so I think you sharing that people are saying, I feel less alone. That's so beautiful because I feel like that's- I mean, it is.

I think one of the things, one of the reasons I thought it would be interesting to do a podcast was since I was a kid, I've been someone for whatever reason that people felt like they could unburden themselves to. And so whether it was before we even as kids would have language of like, I'm going to tell you a secret I haven't told anybody. Or when I was a teenager, of somebody saying some version of like, I don't know why I'm telling you this. And I've had that throughout my life. And so I hope it's because people feel, even from before '98, but after '98, just a level of compassion that I have for people. And I try to not be judgmental, even though I am sometimes secretly, but not with people in the moment. I'm just out in the world. You're human. Like, Oh, she shouldn't wear that. But- Yeah.

You get that sense on the show, too, that people are just like, Just exhale. But I feel like that is the biggest compliment when someone tells you, Monica, I feel less alone listening to your show. Because at the end of the day, I feel like so many of us do feel alone, or we feel like our setbacks or our failures or somehow means something is wrong with us, and it must not happen to anyone else or our stories. Or in my case, I have so many people who maybe are launching a business or an idea or something, and they've had all these setbacks, or they're trying to write a book, and no publisher will take it yet. And then they think that they're alone in their experience because when they look online and social, everyone's highlight reels out there, and they think it's just them. And so that's what fills my heart the most when people say that. They're like, Oh, my gosh, you got rejected that many times building a cosmetics, and you still made it. I feel like I could do it, too. Or where they have these revelations. And I think it's so funny You and I were talking so much off camera that I'm like, Okay, we got to start recording.

We're talking about reclaiming and how many versions of that that we can take on. Just off the top, today's conversation is all about reclaiming your own story and reclaiming who you are. And that is something every single one of us in our own heroes journey in this one beautiful life can connect with. And because our listeners of the show span all ages, Monica, just to give anyone who maybe might not know this piece of your story, I want to give them some context. And I want to touch on a season in your past when you lost your narrative and the shame that came with that. And then we're going to dive into how you're reclaiming it and how we all can do that in our own lives. In 1998, you were 22. I think about when I was 22. Oh, my goodness. You're 22. You graduated college. You headed to Washington, DC for an internship where you fell in love with your boss, which I'll just say, that's easy to do. Whether it's your professor, whether it's... I mean, yeah. So you fell in love with your boss. Yours just happened to be the President of the United States and the most powerful man in the world.

Married. And married.

So I think they need to own that.

And the two of you began a romantic relationship that lasted two years. And the public revelation of that relationship, that turned into the largest legal investigation and political and media firestorm and became one of the most public vilifications and collective public shameings of just about any woman in our history. I mean, the scale, the scale of the press, you instantly became a household name. Your life was completely turned upside died down in a way that lasted decades and changed everything. You say you lost your anonymity, your future, your sense of self, your ability to trust yourself, and you almost lost your life. And you say that at 24, I lost my narrative, or rather, it was stolen from me. And the Monica Lewinsky that my friends and family knew was usurped by false narratives, callous jokes, and politics. The The fact that I've reclaimed my narrative and my voice is a miracle and still mind boggling to me because there were many moments where I wasn't really sure that I would survive. Can you share a little about that from the person that's considering what you may have went through outside of just what they saw on the news?

Yeah. Well, I think for me, I had the ironic luck of this story exploding at a point in time in our media history. So we had traditional news, traditional news on the radio, newspapers. We now also had had... We'd had 24-hour news for 20 years with CNN. But in 1996 and '97 was when the competition started with Fox and MSNBC. And so what that meant was the 24-hour news was changing with competition. And then on top of that was the Internet. And was this new Wild Wild West of we didn't have social media yet, but everyday people were starting to find their voices through making comments, and every outlet had their own website. So it It started to mean that old adage of yesterday's news is tomorrow's fish paper is no longer true. It was going to be everywhere accessible to everybody forever. And it meant the story ballooned and exploded faster, too. So something that might have taken longer to reach people. Those are the unemotional pieces of the landscape. But for me, personally, I remember. I knew the investigation was going to become public before most of the world did, because there had been this FBI staying several days before, and I was threatened with 27 years in jail for having crimes, one of them I had never even heard of, suborning perjury.

So I didn't even know what that was.

You were 24.

I was 24. Right. But in that moment of I remember waking up and- We need to pause for a super brief break.

And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire, because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter, and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected, and more worthy. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worth: How to Believe You are Enough and Transform Your Life for You. If you have some self doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you. In worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearnt the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness. Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be?

Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook. Com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious, and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernleema. Com to make sure you're on the list, and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jamiekernleema. Com or in the I'll link in the show notes. Do you struggle with negative self-taught?

Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful. And when you learn to take control over your self-taught, it's life-changing. And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life. It's called Five Ways to Overcome Negative Self-Talk and Build Self-Love. And it's a free how-to guide to overcome that negative self-talk to build confidence and Develop unshakable self-love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self-sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life One filled with self-love, resilience, and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekernleema. Com/resources, or click the link in the show notes below. And now more of this incredible conversation together.

I remember waking up and I lived in the Watergate apartment complex with my mom and opening the apartment door. And because it was DC, everybody, and this was the day, newspapers were still a thing. So it's like newspapers down the entire hallway and looking at the newspaper and seeing my name there was not something I had ever contemplated at such a young age, and certainly not for something that was awful and destructive to so many people personally, to how the country was being run, to everybody in our country. I think that the impact was enormous. And to just to watch myself, the person that I knew myself to be, that I thought of how I was in the world to watch me be... Almost like, if you think of a bird with feathers and you imagine pulling a feather off the bird, and each feather was like a piece of me. And instead, what was being replaced in those feathers were different feathers, how other people wanted to see me and to define me. And so it was alongside all the shock and the fear of of the legal ramifications was just watching myself be torn apart.

And I already had self-esteem issues. I wouldn't have been in this situation if I didn't have self-esteem issues. And so it was just very much, if it hadn't been for my friends and my family, I think over the course of that year who continued to remind me of my true self. I would have been so lost, lost into the sea and the abyss of just the anger and the hate and the vitriol for me, but also, I think because of the story. I I think because of the nature of the story and it being a collective story, I think that it was also reflective of women, how we feel about women, the same way that there were women tied to a post and burned at a stake called a witch. And so those things have always been in our collective history. It was not a physical burning, but a public burning, but an emotional burning.

I'm imagining what you're describing of plucking out one feather at a time. It's of who you are, your identity, and then they're being replaced by all of this. I feel like so many of us can relate to this if we've had something happen in elementary school that just almost or Or as an adult where we did something, and then all of a sudden someone else is making a judgment on us and telling us who we are. And then it's like, how do you... And I'm just imagining you at 24. I'm right there with you. I'm feeling you walk out of the door and seeing papers lined up with you on them. And you went from... My mom always used to call me Bright-Eye, Bushy-Tale. I'm thinking you went to this Bright-Eye, going to Washington, DC, loving it, the whole thing. And you're now 24, and your name is everywhere.

And in ways that you don't want. Yes. I think you're cancer. Yes.

And I think what something you just said that's really important, and I wish we made more progress than we have on this, but a lot A lot of people don't realize this. It wasn't called the Clinton scandal. It was called the Lewinsky scandal, right? And I think about like, oh, my gosh, in 2026, if you have a 22-year-old intern turn, right? And having a relationship with the most powerful, not even any boss, let alone a boss twice their age, but it doesn't even... It's any boss. It's so easy for people to think, Oh, yeah, of course, he would be fired, or he would... You look back on what happened and the public perception and what you went through, it was the Lewinsky scandal. It's your name everywhere. It's your- And my family's name.

Your family's name. It's not even just me, but everybody who had my last name suffered in that way. And also, I think one of the things that I'm sure was an unintentional... What's the word I'm looking for? Fucking perimenopause. But I think that it was an unintentional consequence of having it called the Lewinsky Scandal also meant it wasn't going to go away for me because it cemented my name in people's memories more. And in that sense, that was as my main therapist as a trauma psychiatrist, and as she'll say, is this the long echo of trauma, that this the long wake of the shadow of this scandal and how long it... I was carrying that mantle, and I still do in some ways, although it's changed. It's had in large part to do with because it was called that, because my name was then seared in people's minds or images, and it contributed to what I lost for so long.

And I think one thing I want to ask everyone listening and watching us right now is just to take a moment and think about maybe a few things that have happened to you in your past that maybe have chipped away at your own identity, whether you're even aware of it or not. Because in our conversation, what I'm so excited to do through what you have done and what you've gone through and the woman that you continue to become and you're offering out into the world is so powerful. And I think that's part of why I'm so excited for today, because there's many people that don't actually know or maybe haven't considered everything you've shouldered and everything almost like the way a Phoenix rises from the ashes, the impact you're having now in the world, the impact you've had on so many others who have gone through bullying or gone through shaming, the impact you're having now with your show. And the thing I'm most excited about is every person at home actually going, wait a minute, I want to consider what parts of my own story have I... Maybe they're still stuck in that part where someone plucked their feathers out and put in their own, and somebody told them something about who they are, put a label on them, or they've put...

So often we put labels on ourselves. We're like, I hear from so many women that are like, I realized it wasn't just that I failed in my business or I thought I failed in my marriage, or I thought I failed, but I actually think I'm a failure. And there's going to be so many people listening to this right now I know that through our conversation, are going to realize, Oh, wow, I plucked my own feathers out, put in new ones that are called failure, or called not enough, or called not lovable. And through our conversation, why I'm so excited about this is because when someone has gone through so much, and I know it's a journey forever, I know all of us will continue to go through our stuff forever, but you've made it through to the point where you're helping others make it through. And that's what's so powerful. And that's what I'm most excited about today. And I feel like at this point, everyone can relate to being called something on the internet or having somebody from high school see their thing they post it on Facebook and not like it or make a side comment, or they get bad reviews on Yelp for their lawyer practice.

We can all relate to just this.

Yeah. So many people are also, I think, about the divorce rate, and we think about how divorce is structured and just what gets written in the divorce files or the papers, the submissions, that it's- Villifying character. Exactly. So I mean, it's... And that you are... I've seen from both my own parents having gotten divorced and having lots of friends who have gotten divorced, that you are losing an identity. And And so I think it's when you are vulnerable to those kinds of things that you're more vulnerable to having other people stick the feathers in.

In the year after, and then the year after that, can you take us through what that looked like? Because you're in 40 rap songs or whatever the number is up to now.

Over 125.

125 rap songs.

Don't get residuals.

Oh, my gosh. I wish. I mean, you talk about your family and how your parents showed up for you. And you say that they wouldn't let you even shower with the door closed because you, I think, shared that you- Those first few nights. Didn't want to wake up the next morning. Can you take us through that?

Yeah. There were a number of moments throughout the investigation where it just felt unbearable. I just did not think I could take another breath. And when my parents saw those signs or felt their parental intuition of wanting to protect me, it was really that But the first night when... So the night of the FBI sting, I was in this hotel room and eventually waiting for my mom to come from New York. And by the time we finally got to leave, I had been there for, I think, 12, 13 hours, and my mom didn't think we were going to be able to leave. But when we got home and a whole bunch of other things, but it was probably around 4: 00 AM, and I finally took a shower. I remember her coming and saying, Monca, you have to leave the door open. And I understood, and I understood why. It was really painful for everybody in my family in different ways because I think both To remember that even though Bill's family was also going through pain, they were in a very different world in a very different and had different experiences, and were in a place that was very protected with a lot of support that was paid for, and they understood this world, whereas we didn't.

I come from a very smart family, but that doesn't mean you can understand how to navigate a different universe of politics, of media. And so I think for all of us, there was just a lot of fear, a lot of not knowing how to move forward, and I think for them, of knowing how to protect me. But it's interesting because I think in the process of setting up the podcast, I think that there was this really looking back and seeing the gestalt of my whole story in these last 27 years and the difficulty that I experienced in those first few years, in some ways, paled in comparison to what happened later when I really felt confronted with no future and no purpose. And so those first few years, after '98, I leaned into trying to be a public person because I didn't know what else to do.

You did the authorized?

I didn't authorize. Well, that I did in part to pay legal- I was going to say, if I pay your legal It's your own skills, right?

Which you didn't want to begin with.

Exactly, which no one offered to cover. But I think it was also there were ways I was naive in thinking that I still had this naive side to me that was like, Oh, well, when people get to know me, they get to really know me, then they'll like me. They'll understand. And that's not at all what happened. I think people did get to know me over time. I did try to put my version of the story out there. But one aspect of One aspect of a collective story is that the collective has to be ready, too. Right. And you're up against this just machine.

Right.

But it was interesting because after I went to graduate... So I went to graduate school in 2005, and on a couple... I know. One of my trips back to London after I had coffee with a professor who had been my tutor there also, so what they call tutor. It's not the same. Tutor in the UK is not the same as Tudor in the US. But she was an amazing... Dr. Sandra Jowellowicz, and we had coffee, and she had taught the class on power and communities that I had taken. She had said to me, she said... I can't do her Brazilian accent well, but she's resilient. And she had just said that there's no competing narrative, that the people with power had written the narrative for me, and that there has to be a competing narrative for that to change. And I wasn't ready to hear that when she said it, but it lodged in my brain. In the same way I had another friend who had My friend Anne had been meditating on a pyramid in Mexico, and she called me and she was like, I had this realization that because you're in the collective consciousness, that when you shift your consciousness, you're shifting the consciousness of everybody whose mind you have been in.

And I was like, No, no, no, no, no, or another. But I think those things, I think sometimes in our journeys, we hear things that are really important seeds that are planted- I was going to say that, yeah. Long before they start to germinate.

Yes. So in the first few years, then I'm going to get to when you were 39 and some of those moments, because I think our journey to healing, our journey to reclaiming is almost never linear. No. Those first few years, I feel like, again, every one of us has had different experiences where we're like, oh, gosh, everyone at work knows this happened, or everyone at school, or my friend group this or this is so painful and all the things. Yours is on such a profound scale. In the first few years, could you leave the house and go to a restaurant? We need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire, because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep knowing, to remember that they matter, and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected, and more worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious, and so is self-belief. And I love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me.

If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernleema. Com to make sure you're on the list, and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm Your Girl, subscribe at jamiekernleema. Com or in the link in the show notes. I am so excited for this book. You know why?

Because it's going to save so many people. It's going to save you.

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Jamie's Bookworthy is incredible. The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on worthybook. Com. And now more of this incredible conversation together. In the first few years, could you leave the house and go to a restaurant or a coffee shop? And what would happen?

Once I got immunity in '98, I think things started to change. And then after I testified before the grand jury, what it became was in these larger moments of the story. So the Star Report coming out, I came to know or to learn, okay, if this thing is going to happen, there are going to be people outside my apartment. So I started to try to- Like paparazzi? Yes. And started to try to plan for things like that. And then there were moments where I didn't know something had happened, and then I'd get followed in the car in LA. And separate from paparazzi, just how were regular people?

Just regular people when you'd go to a restaurant or go to a coffee shop.

I was I consider myself lucky in the sense that maybe I could count on one or two hands, the number of times somebody was actually really rude directly to my face. Did I notice tittering in restaurants and things like that? Sure. Did the people, my friends and some of my family, have to experience more of that in ways of people taking liberties of saying things to them. Yeah.

How did it impact your family when their name is so public?

I'm just really lucky. I have an amazing family. I really do. I'm so grateful. I think that for the most part, everybody understood that no matter what they experienced, it wasn't going to be as bad as what I went through and what it felt like for me. And so I imagine there are a lot of conversations that have happened without me because they've tried to protect me, and I appreciate that because something... And we've all felt this way in different circumstances is when people you love are impacted by something negative that you did or caused, you feel guilt. You feel a lot of guilt. And so it's like, shame, guilt, public humiliation. It's an amazing trifecta, Jamie. I was able to go to restaurants, but I had to be careful about which restaurants I went to because sometimes they would call the paparazzi or if I would read about what I ate in one restaurant, I never went back to that restaurant. But then there were places. I don't know if you've ever been to the Gray Dog Cafe in New York? Oh, it's great. Next time you're there, you should go. They're the best coffee in the city.

And And they were a little restaurant owned by two brothers. They say little, but it's not little anymore. They're numerous ones. But it was a real safe haven for me in New York. And so I would go there and have breakfast. And in fact, one of my best friends, still to today, I met there. So that's the magic of creating a safe space for people. It's not just good food, it's the connections that can happen there in less a lifetime.

When When you went, you got your master's degree, you got your master's degree, London School of Economics. This is a big deal. You come out of school and you say no one would hire you. Can you take us through that?

Sure.

These are the things nobody thinks about, right? And then they go through stuff like that in their own version, and they think that they're alone.

Well, I think also, too, what's important to note is not only what are the ways that people may connect from their own lives to that story, but we're also all participants in these public stories that happen. And I think we often, once the headlines go away, we rarely think about that person again and what the long tail of their experience has been, how that can impact moving forward or not being able to move forward. But I went to graduate school. It became clear trying to be a public person was not working on so many different levels, and I was so unhappy. And so the thinking was, Okay, why don't I try to go back? My therapist at the time was always talking about getting back on a normal developmental path. How do I do that in every step of the way, whether it's I dated then still, or Or how was I trying to support myself in the same way that a 25-year-old would be trying to support themselves in all different ways. But going to graduate school was really about trying to build a new bridge to a future, and a future where my name might be less known for certain things, and I'm able to start having the life that I I was supposed to have.

And it was just a process where it was timing, It just didn't work. It didn't work.

Did you go on job interviews? Yeah.

I mean, I interviewed it. I mean, maybe this doesn't sound like a lot, but over 50 places. That's a lot. And each time for me was anxious making. I had one experience where I went in and the person who was interviewing me was more nervous than I was, and they had certain ticks. That came out. And so trying to manage someone else's anxiety when I myself was anxious because it was so important to me to come across a certain way and to get hired and to try to have this future. It's I don't know why this is what's coming up, but I'm thinking about Gilligan's Island. And every episode of Gilligan, they almost got rescued. And there's that thing where it's like, they almost got rescued, but then, of course, it doesn't happen. And so that was how it would feel of this, okay, by getting a job, I would be rescued from what happened to me. And that would open up a new future and trying to find this future that I had so desperately wanted and people who loved me wanted for me, too. It eventually became impossible. I think it was impacted certainly by the financial crisis we went through in 2008.

It was impacted by the politics that, of course, obviously, she had every right to run. But Hillary running for office impacted my ability to get a job, and the Clintons still being very much in power, very much the leaders of the party.

And you shared you voted for her.

Yes, I did. I want to put this in perspective because I feel like I have the blessing now of knowing you as a friend and how freaking smart you are.

And I'm imagining how smart you are. And then you get your master's from London School of Economics. You go on 50 interviews and no one will hire you.

Yeah.

I know you've had so many people ask you this question, and I I think your answer is so profound that I have to ask it is, so many people have asked you, why didn't you just change your name?

Yeah. And I thought about it. I mean, we discussed it many times in my family. And when I was sitting to write a resume, I thought about it again. But ultimately, I think I came to two very different things. One was more effective life in the and the other was something stronger in my soul. And the first being, I don't know that that actually would have been able to work. I don't know that it... I think that at the level of name recognition, and especially at that time still. By the time that the paperwork was coming out of... A lawyer would be coming out of taking paperwork in to be legally verified and having a name change, it would have been all over the newspaper. So there was that piece to it. But I think the other piece that took me time to find in myself and took me time to stand behind was that I I didn't have to change my name. And so I shouldn't have to be... I regreted and felt a lot of shame about many choices I'd made in my life, both ones that led to '98 and earlier and other times that I think all of us have done things.

They don't all become public. But I wasn't ashamed of who I was as a person.

Someone asked you, Well, why didn't you change your name? And you also said no one's ever asked for Clinton to change his name.

And that's the stand in in many ways for the man. I don't think I've ever heard a man who's been through a scandal being asked And that is part of the cloak of shame that women are expected to wear. And so I think that's an important thing for All of us women, especially young women, to remember of...

And so often that cloak of shame women are expected to wear is actually put on you and reinforced by other women. When we realized that, we're like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I remember Chelsea Handler on this show saying that in her early career, and she's so pro-women, and in her career, she's like, It was women that didn't want me to succeed in the early parts of her career. And I feel like over so many generations, the roles we've been taught to play in these misogynistic views that we don't even realize are just part of culture, that so often we're doing the thing to others that we would never want done onto us. And having that realization is so big. It's so big. I remember the first time realizing, wait, why was it called the Lewinsky Scandal? Wait a minute. No, no one would ever ask Bill to change his name. Just all of these realization And yes, we have come far, but not so much.

I get asked a lot if I think that things would be different today. And while I I do think some things would be different, I don't think it would be as different as we'd like to think it would be. We've made strides, but not enough. And sometimes the strides we make, we get blown back by a big gust, a few steps.

It's so interesting, even to this day, when you look at no matter what political party people are part of or how they vote, it's really every party is this way that when you have a woman running versus a man, just the press coverage is so fundamentally different, the way their appearance is attacked, the way different parts of them is vilified. It's still wild to see how different it is. And I know you mentioned earlier that the first few years after '98 were hard. You talk about not wanting to wake up. You talk about the things that your family has gone through that you've experienced and then getting your master's, not being able to get hired. And you said a few minutes ago that you hit a point where you're like, What is my future and my purpose?

Yeah, I think this was a large part of, I call it my dark decade, and this process of trying to move forward. And yet feeling like I was both frozen in Amber and stuck in molasses and in quicksand.

What decade was this?

What age was this? So this was coming out of graduate school, so in my early 30s. And I feel like it was this tail... To me, the tail end, it's 30 to 40 was that decade. And even though I was still a public person, I was still trying to find my way as a public person in my early 30s, and then I went to graduate school, and those weren't as dark as what came in the years that followed. They were all part of the same thing of me struggling to find my way and to find what my purpose was, to find how was a life going to blossom, even though I've always had friends, and I'm so lucky that way and lucky for a lot of different reasons, there is something about having purpose. And it's actually, we don't have to go into this whole long thing, but it's actually what I worry about with AI a lot, is people being displaced from their jobs. And even with universal basic income, it doesn't mean you have purpose. Yes. You know?

And so- Is 39, you talk about age 39?

Yeah, It was a bad year. I think it is so valuable for people to hear that so often coming out of these enormous painful storms can be the rainbow. It doesn't always happen. And sometimes you think, okay, fine, I'm almost through the storm, and then it turns out, oh, guess what? There's another fucking storm coming. You have several storms. But I do think we end up somewhere we end up somewhere better. 39, for me, was I had been trying so hard to move forward. And after I had done all the job hunting, then I was trying to be an entrepreneur with zero business experience, except I was good at spending money. And it was like I had creative ideas, but I'm not because I'm Libra rising. I can always see two sides to something. So trying to make a big decision about something on my own was really hard because I kept being able to go against it. So it was that. And then I came to a point where I thought I would, okay, I might step back into things and into a public world, and maybe there's now social media exists. And so this public shaming is happening to people who are public and private, who've done something wrong and who've done nothing wrong.

And I thought, okay, Maybe I can be a poster child for having survived public shaming, even if surviving wasn't really thriving yet. I was still here. And so I tried so hard to learn from my mistakes and to make decisions in a way that I thought, Okay, it'll be different this time. And pretty much everything that I built in the few years leading up to '39 fell apart in my 39th year. And I turned 40. Obviously, that's what happens after 39. So it was the year I was turning 40 and really facing having to confront so many of the things that I had hoped I would have had at that point that I watched many of my friends have.

What?

Getting married, having children, having a career, something that was fulfilling willing to them. And I think those were... I always wanted to have kids, and doing it on my own was not an option for me. So I froze my eggs at 37. I froze embryos at 37. But it just wasn't an option. Why? Because I didn't have any financial stability. And so it was... And I think for me, if you And it's one thing, an unplanned pregnancy is one thing, and whatever decisions people make around that, in my mind, that's their own decision to make. I feel and felt a responsibility around if I was going to to bring a child into this world that I'd be able to provide for it at a standard and a level that I felt would help them thrive. And I didn't think I had the emotional makeup to be a good single parent either. So without a lot of resources. So I think there were a lot of tears shed in '39. And I had, in this period, I think from '35, '36, I started to do a lot of deep personal work. And it was more nontraditional therapies.

I had done some more traditional therapies. I did EMDR, which is a really powerful therapy to help with trauma and moving trauma out of the body and repatterning our brains in certain ways. But probably the main piece of work that I did based on string theory, and it is around our energy bodies and the patterns of energy and blockages and the kinds of things that we bring into our life but also can hold on to. And so a lot of that work was having to heal my energy fields from the damage that had been done in '98 and after. And once we got got to a certain point, I was able to really repattern some of my relationships, my energetic relationships. I know it sounds like cuckoo, and it's all underpinned by compassion, in both compassion for myself and trying to set my lens to how I move through the world and took things in with compassion, which I try to do. I am not always successful.

For your healing journey to something you said earlier, you said long before you were able to receive it, your friend calls you and says she has this huge aha moment where if you shift your perception of yourself, everyone who has you in their consciousness will shift their perception. And I'm just thinking, of how powerful that is because I think about every single one of us when we learn to unlearnt the lies that lead to self doubt, when we learn to believe we're worthy. I think about that when we shift our own identity, does that collectively shift? And for some of us, our circle might be the moms at school or the people at work or our family or whatever. But it's fascinating that concept. And so going along your journey right now, this unimaginable thing happens at 24. And then you spend those years really struggling, of course, getting your master's coming out. That whole journey, now you're 39, and you're saying, I I want to have kids. I have frozen my eggs. I have frozen embryos. I want to have a career. I want to have these things. And when did you start healing modalities and therapy?

And what does that journey look like from 24 up through now in terms of what you found has really worked or really helped on that healing journey? And we'll eventually get into the reclaiming part as well. But what are your favorite or, I guess, most powerful? Because I believe our body keeps the score.

I believe that book.

I believe all of it. And I think for so many people, while that book is phenomenally popular, for so many people, the concept is brand new. What do my body keeps the score, oh, if I haven't healed the thing that happened then, it's still in me and affecting me. So from your journey so far, really starting from 24 to now, you're 51. What does that healing look like? And where are you at now and what's worked? Right. Yeah.

Well, I think what's interesting is I feel like even the things that I did that I would say didn't work, they actually worked in some way. And I do think it's really the building blocks of it. And sometimes it just takes a very long time to circle around to understand what something provided you. Even if it didn't provide you with the thing that you went in instantly. Right. But I have tried almost everything. I haven't done psychedelics yet. It's something I Really, but that's the now part. But I think from then, I went on traditional psychotherapy medicines. Early on, I had traditional therapy with someone for, I think, almost 10 years. And then when I went to London, she was retiring at that point. So it was this natural break. And I saw somebody briefly in London who was not a good fit for me. But it was really when I started doing the energetic work and the resonance work, and that I started to shift everything. Really? Oh, yeah. I know I would not be where I am today without having done all of that work.

So just someone hearing energy and resonance work? I know. They don't know what that means. There'll be people that are so into it. And then the people that they're hearing it for the first time, how would you explain what that is to someone who has never heard of it but is so curious and wants to know, and maybe even wants to look into it?

Yeah, it is something that I'm so passionate about And I want to help people. We have machines that read energy like an MRI. It reads a vibration. It reads a resonance, a sound. And so it's doing work. The work I do is sound based. So if you didn't know what was happening, you would think you were getting some a sound bath. But it's really sound that's used to move other energies. But what could be complicated is you don't know what's behind... The person I'm working with, I get lucky enough, he finds a blockage. What we don't know is, is behind the blockage smooth sailing or 100 other blocks? And So that's where I think healing can be complicated. And so it is not, as you said before, it is not linear. I think of it as a tilted spiral because the times even that we feel we're going backwards. We're actually going down to go up on the next ring.

Do you lay on a table and have a practitioner tune in sounds to release energy blockage? Is there ever physical contact?

Or it's just- Rarely is there physical contact, but sometimes there is. I've had experiences I've gone in under a very heavy dark cloud and walked out a brand new person. I've had experiences where I've walked in with a heavy cloud and walked out with the same fucking cloud or seemingly same cloud. But one of the things once we repaired my field was really about repatterning my relationship to Fame. And that was the first thing that we did towards In my 39th year, not the first thing in my 39th year, but that was the first thing that really started to, I think, I felt as if looking back, it packed me up and put me on a different path.

And that was through the sound energy work? Yes. Okay. Was that more powerful for you than EMDR or other modalities? Or maybe it was different.

It was different. Yeah, it's all different because I started doing EFT, the tapping, emotional freedom technique. So tapping, which the basis of it is very similar to EMDR. It's a little less scientific. You're not using, but it's around releasing energy that's stored in our body and that energy connected to emotions and experiences and ways that we filter new information coming in. We filter experiences that are being offered to us. And so I was doing that. I would try anything. I I was so desperate.

You say at 39 that you maybe wondered if you'd make it out of 39. Yeah.

It was an avalanche of disappointments that happened, and all of those disappointments became blessings. So everything that fell apart, it It really was for my own good. And it is so hard to see that when you're in it. When you're in it. It is so hard. But I think that I always feel one of the most important parts of sharing our stories as we do in whatever medium, right? Whether it's a podcast or a book or a conversation one on one. What is so important about it is the wisdom and the hopeful bits. They get stored somewhere in us, even if we didn't choose to. And they're there. And they may just come peak out and whisper in some of the darkest moments. And I feel like that's the benefit. That's the beauty of doing these kinds of stories.

This conversation is so powerful and so inspiring that we made it into more than one part. And coming up in this incredible part two of our conversation on Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky, you have the power to reclaim your story, to reclaim the narrative of who you truly are and reclaim your life. And we are diving into more insights into how you can do that in your life right now, today, coming up in the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person that you know because it can change their life, too. And if you love today's episode, please click the follow or subscribe button for the show on the app that you're listening or watching it on. Give it a five-star rating or review. And again, please share it with everyone that you believe in. Share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it. Post it and share it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today. You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode.

Episode. And thank you so much for joining me today. And before you go, I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You, right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. Your worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. And it's an honor to welcome you to each and every episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. Here, I hope you'll come as you are. Here, Feel where you need. Blossom what you choose. Journey toward your calling, and stay as long as you like because you belong here. You are worthy. You are loved. You are love, and I I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worth: How to Believe You are Enough and Transform Your Life for You. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you.

In worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlear the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness. Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook. Com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious, and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernleema.

Com to make sure you're on the list, and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jamiekernleema. Com or in the link in the show notes. And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.