Transcript of #1 Secret to Aging Well Pt 2 w/Dr. Gabrielle Lyon: New Keys to Optimize Weight, Health & Longevity: Exactly How to Eat & Move

Coming up in this incredible part 2 episode with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. Glp-1s are sweeping the country and the world. The world. By storm. What do people need to make sure that they do that maybe their doctor doesn't even know to tell them to do when they are someone taking GLP-1s?

They are the most effective medication we have ever seen for weight loss. 70% of people will go off of them within two years. If they have lost muscle and not addressed their habits, I argue that they're going to be in the worst place because they're trading obesity for sleep.

There are so many people who, like you, are changing the world in big ways, and you are their doctor. You are their advisor.

Many mutual friends of ours, yes.

How much protein should you eat? What about a fasting window? Will you get too bulky if you start lifting weights? How can you really lose belly fat and ignite a sluggish metabolism. And what are the true needle movers when it comes to aging well and feeling your absolute best? Dr. Lyon has flown in from her busy practice in Texas to be here with you and me today, and I am so excited for this conversation. Dr. Gabriele Lyon is a board-certified physician, one of the leading voices changing how we think about health, longevity, and aging. She's worked with Navy Seals, Olympians, and some of the highest performers in the world, and she brings that same science-backed approach to helping everyone, especially women, build strength, vitality, and confidence at every age. She's also the New York Times bestselling author of Forever Strong, and the brand new book, Out Now, called the Forever Strong Playbook, a six-week science-based plan to sharpen your mind, strengthen your body, and get healthy at any age. And whether today you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family.

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We are seeing a huge menopause movement, and I'm so grateful for that. There is hormone replacement therapy. Yes. However, in order to really move body composition, you must have the foundational diet and exercise piece correct. Same with the use of GLP-1s, because what is going to happen is people are going to be a smaller version of themselves And over time, that is not going to mean a healthier version. It potentially will in the short run. But if you buy into the analogy that's skelta muscle is like a suitcase, that you open up the suitcase and you're packing for four days and Everything fits perfectly. But if you open up that suitcase, and even though you're only going on a trip for four days, you're packing for 14, you cannot close that suitcase. Everything is going to fall back out. And that's the same as with skelta muscle. So if If your skeleton muscle is full from eating a diet that is too high in carbohydrates and too high in calories, there's nowhere for that carbohydrates and those macronutrients to go. In essence, it stays in the bloodstream. Once it stays in the bloodstream, your risk increases.

For cardiovascular disease, you see an increase in triglycerides, which is fat in the blood, an increase in glucose, which is sugar, and an increase in insulin. We've all heard these terms in science. We don't want high levels of those in the bloodstream. But if you address the health of skeletal muscle and you look at that as the root of chronic disease, in part the root of chronic disease, then you can focus on that by simply going for a walk, doing some push-ups, and correcting your nutrition. Then when you enter into menopause, when you are faced with a life threatening challenge, your survivability has now just increased because you have paid attention to your skeleton muscle. Same with Alzheimer's. Basically, what I'm trying to get people to understand is healthy skeleton muscle requires movement. As you move, you now create more flexibility in your life to eat more, eat differently. It's not about being really rigid, but it is about future proofing your body because, say, for example, menopause. Hormone replacement therapy is critical from my clinical perspective. We've been doing it for a long time. But will that transform body composition? For example, belly fat that a lot of women struggle with as they're going through menopause.

The answer is not necessarily in a meaningful way. You have to have the lifestyle components down.

This is so big for so many people, and I want to dive into GLP once in a moment, but I want to ask you one question. There are a number of people right now who maybe were an athlete in their teens or 20s or young adult years, and they had a ton of muscle. I did gymnastics, and I did I lifted a lot, actually. And so now, even though I haven't lifted weights in years, I'm going to admit this to you, my dear friend, and also the woman who... The doctor, who is at the forefront of muscle-centric medicine, of the conversation about how we don't need to focus on fat, we need to focus on muscle. Changing the mainstream conversation and really getting the science in the mainstream, which is great. It's great to see so many doctors rallying around you and so many people impacted by your work. And with all that, I'm going to say to you, I have not lifted weights in a few years. I cannot believe it. But here's what I want to ask for the person that feels like, Oh, well, when I get my body comp done, they tell me I have great muscle.

And for those of us that maybe in our 20s or 30s, we were an athlete or we had great muscle. And so now we haven't done any resistance training. And someone who's maybe in their 40s, 50s, 60s, 30s, whatever it is, they're told their comp is fine and that they have great muscle. If you haven't actually done resistance training in years, but your muscle composition still looks good, is that not good?

Okay, well, first of all, it's great that you did this because you've future proofed your body. What do I mean by that? You've heard of this concept called health span, right? No one's talking about health span. There's lifespan, which is the length of time you live, and then there's health span. And then, even more important, there's something called muscle span. And muscle span is the length of time you live with healthy skeleton muscle. You see my kids training, and they do it because they love it. I mean, my four-year-old is training to go into the SEAL teams, but we are allowing them to prime their muscle for metabolic success later on in life. When you are young, you create the possibility of having good metabolic outcomes as you are physically active. The fact that you were physically active when you were younger, you've primed your body and had more muscle, you are much more likely to, number one, be able to go back to the habit. But number two, your body is primed to respond. It's not something new. And in fact, I would challenge you to start lifting weights, and I guarantee, it's hard to make guarantees on other people's bodies, but that you would be really shocked by how fast your body responds.

And also, when you are doing and engaging in resistance exercise, we talked about muscles and endocrine organ, which simply means that it releases hormones that act systemically and locally. When you contract your skelet muscle, it releases these myokines. And these myokines are based on the intensity and duration that you are exercising. And that is what goes and improves brain function, bone health, and a cascade of other things. So whether your body composition improves or not, number one, just the simple act of doing the training has improved the quality of that tissue.

So for the person who played football or did whatever sport that she did or he did, and And they actually still now have good muscle comp, but they haven't done resistance training in years, that's not enough because they're not releasing mild kinds. They're not doing it. So even though in our past, it's great that In our past, we've built muscle or whatever, but that doesn't give us a free pass now.

No. But the speed at which they improve, at least what I've seen from my clinical practice, is their body transforms. And I just think of one patient, she's in her 60s, and she had always lifted weights. And then in her 40s, she stopped. She got too busy. She had kids in her career. She started training again. I mean, she started training. We corrected her nutrition. She was, of course, doing the necessary hormones. And not only did her body comp change, but also her blood markers changed. And that's really where healthy skelet muscle comes from. Again, we have to move away from this esthetic part. But the fact that you spent time time building healthy skeletal muscle in your 30s. And for someone who is a high school athlete, it's never too late. And those individuals, it's not enough if they stop doing it, but that tissue is primed. It's ready for movement now.

Well, that's some good news today. That is some good news. All right, so GLP-1s are sweeping the country and the world- And the world. By storm. What do people need to make sure that they do, that maybe their doctor doesn't even know to tell them to do when they are someone taking GLP-1s?

Glp-1s, and this is an incretin hormone, and it's something that affects gastric emptying. It slows down gastric emptying. It can also affect the brain. It affects regions of the brain. They are the most effective medication we have ever seen for weight loss, ever. And by the way, they're not new. They've been used to treat type 2 diabetes for, I don't know, almost two decades. They're not a new medication. They allow for a decrease in and they change weight loss amounts drastically. What does this mean? This means, let's say someone was doing a, I don't know, a different medication. We would see, I don't know, the This would be 5 to 10% change. With the use of GLP-1s, we could easily see a 16% weight loss.

Sixteen?

Or higher. It transforms people's ability to lose weight. Do I think that they are good? I think that they are good while used with a purpose. 70% of people will go off of them within two years, roughly 70%. And if they have lost muscle and not address their habits, I would argue that they're going to be in a worse place because they're trading obesity for sarcopenia, which is low muscle mass and function.

Is it simply that because someone goes on GLP-1s, their stomach empty slower, it calms the food noise, they're no longer eating as much, and maybe they're not getting enough protein, and so they lose muscle? Is that what's happening?

There is nothing magical about the GLP-1s and affecting skeleton muscle loss, which I think is important because a lot of conversation, if you look, is that it causes skeleton muscle loss. It doesn't. It doesn't cause more skeleton muscle loss than a diet would. It potentially It can accelerate the way in which they lose weight, which is what we're seeing because someone is now able to do a level of food restriction that they say we're not able to have before. I do think that we're going to see research come out that actually it improves muscle quality because it can improve that intermuscular adipose tissue, the fat, that marbling. I think that we're going to see that it improves intermuscular adipose tissue.

When I hear a lot of doctors say, If you go a GLP-1, just make sure you eat enough protein. So let's just say someone goes on one and they just aren't really hungry anymore. If they eat enough protein, will that prevent muscle loss?

This is a great question. Protecting muscle is twofold. It is through activity, resistance, exercise, and that's probably more impactful than diet. If you were to say, what is going to be better at preserving muscle? Is it nutrition or is it exercise? It's exercise. However, you cannot preserve muscle without protein. You need these essential amino acids to help support muscle, period. Resistance Training GLP-1s are wonderful because it allows people to have mental freedom from dieting and food. When you have that, you can then think about reorienting yourself to better choices. You We do need dietary protein. When you have food restriction, the quality of the food that you eat becomes more important. And how can we think about this? I had a 70-year-old woman come up to me after a talk that I had done. And she said, Doc, I'm not really that hungry. And I was told that I should really limit my red meat consumption and my animal protein consumption. And I looked at her and I said, Well, how much are you eating? And she said, I might eat one meal a day. And that's oftentimes what we see with a GLP-1, is that people are really not hungry, and maybe they're eating one meal a day.

I've seen this clinically. And so the quality of that food matters a lot. And that would be high-quality dietary protein or some shake that is nutrient dense.

I think that's really important because I know a lot of people on GLP-1s, and there's people losing weight, but they're not really hungry anymore. So they're like, Oh, I can eat some Oreos, have a Starbucks coffee and muffin. I'm still losing weight because they're barely eating, but they're probably not getting protein or nutrition.

Right. And if the odds are correct, the percentages are correct, the majority of those people are not going to stay on those GLP-1s.

Why do 70% of people go off of them in two years? Is it the cost?

It can be cost. And also people get burnt out. If they're doing injectables, they can get burnt out.

Do they stop working or do they work forever?

I think it depends on the person. And by the way, I think that they are tremendous. And there's a way to use them, and I would use them in a microdosing way.

Okay, explain that. We're going to dive into some of the hottest things and exactly how much protein we need, exactly should be cold plunge or not. You share in the Forever Strong playbook and in a lot of your work that you do support HRT, hormone replacement therapy. You do support GLP-1s in your practice and for patients.

If someone is decreasing their caloric intake, you have to get protein. And there's something called a protein-sparing fast, which was used before people went into bariatric surgery. The idea was that they were to maintain the most amount of muscle that they could. Before surgery. Because, again, it's not about weight loss, it's about the quality of weight loss. Dietary protein is critical. If someone is using a GLP-1, you must optimize your nutrition for protein because you are not hungry. And we know that protein supports muscle. But not only that, protein is responsible for the support of muscle, but also every protein and structure in your body. It's essential.

How much protein do we need each day? Is that different for men or women? Is it different depending on the season of life we're in?

The amount of protein that we need is higher than the amount of protein that we think. We have been oriented towards eating a minimal protein diet. The recommendations that we have set right now are based on the minimum protein requirements, not the amount of protein we need for optimal health. And just to give this to you, simply, I would say 0. 7 grams of protein per pound of target body weight or up to one gram, which seems daunting for people. For example, if someone is They're 50 pounds, but they want to be 130 pounds, then you target that protein to roughly 130 grams. So it's about 0. 7 to 1 gram per pound of target body weight.

And so that's the weight you want to be at, not the weight you're currently at. I think there's so many downsides of technology. One of the upsides of technology is it's not too hard just to figure out how much protein is in something nowadays, even if it doesn't come with a food label. So that's good. You know what I mean? Like, Oh, I'm eating a chicken breast. Let me look up about what size it is, about how many grams of protein. You can do that in your sleep. But for a lot of people, they're like, How do I calculate it? What do I do? There's a lot of great food tracking apps and things like that, too. What are your favorite ways to track your food each day?

Okay.

Well, we need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire, because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected, more inspired, and more worthy. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that That's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worth: How to Believe You are Enough and Transform your Life for You. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you. In worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearnt the lies that lead to self-doubt, and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome, achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them, and so much more.

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Subscribe at jamiekernleema. Com or in the link in the show notes. Do you struggle with negative self-taught? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful. And when you learn to take control over your self-taught, it's life-changing. And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you. If this something that could benefit your life. It's called Five Ways to Overcome Negative Self Talk and Build Self Love. And it's a free how-to guide to overcome that negative self-taught to build confidence and develop unshaped intakable self-love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self-sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life when filled with self-love, resilience, and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekernleema.

Com/resources, or click the link in the show notes below. And now more of this incredible conversation together. What are your favorite What are your favorite ways to track your food each day?

Okay. Well, I use something called the Carbon app, and I think it's amazing if someone is interested in how to track. The other thing, and I wrote about this in the playbook, is the majority of women don't or the majority of people, they don't want to track. And this is where becoming educated about how much protein you're getting, and then you don't have to weigh and measure it each time. It really becomes a visual plate. And for people, the first thing is understanding what is a high-quality protein. Well, chicken, fish, beef, eggs, whey protein, these are all high-quality proteins. Lower-quality proteins would be something like quinoa or a soy protein or the protein in beans, a plant source of protein. Again, this is not any emotional issue. People get very emotional when it comes to protein sources, but it's called high protein source because of the amount of amino acids. That's just it. It's just a scientific number. Hard, fast, biological fact. And When you focus on high-quality proteins and that becomes the first macronutrient that you eat, then you get a lot of cognitive control. And it takes off a lot of the heavy load of thinking, Oh, my Gosh, I don't know what to eat.

How much should I eat? And do I have to track? And the answer is the more skilled you become at prioritizing protein, the more freedom that you have.

Should you have protein in every single meal? Should it be the first thing you eat, and then you're less likely to want other things? Yes.

We would say that protein at that first meal is most important because Because you are coming out of an overnight fast and you are primed. Your muscle is primed. And that first meal is around between 30 and 50 grams of protein.

Wow. For your breakfast or your first meal?

For your first meal. And it could be a shake. It can make it easy. It could be eggs, it could be yogurt. It doesn't have to be complicated, but it should not be a donut or cereal or a whole bunch of carbohydrates. Because then you are spending your whole day chasing the ebbs and flows of your blood sugar. If you prioritize protein at that first meal, and again, I don't necessarily care when it is, you are setting up your willpower for success because protein is nature's GLP-1.

What do you think of fasting windows? Who are they for? It's been around forever, and it's such a thing right now, eating windows, fasting windows. What do you think of all that?

Well, I think the The first thing that we do is define how long we're fasting. If you're fasting for 24 hours, I don't really recommend that, especially not for an older individual. But if you are eating in an eight to nine hour window, which is time-restricted feeding, I think that that is perfectly acceptable. And we see that it helps people control calories. Now, does it have some magic metabolic effect? Within that eight to nine hour window, it doesn't. But it allows for your gut to rest. You're not eating small meals all day for hours. There is some benefit to an eight to nine hour feeding window.

If you eat, let's say, 11: 00 to 7: 00 every day, and by the time the next morning rolls around and you do your morning walk or your workout, are you more likely to have ketones or to burn fat if you are doing a fasting window like that?

That is a very great question. And what you're talking about is metabolic flexibility. And at rest, our muscle primarily burns fat. But if we eat a diet that is high in carbohydrates and we're always eating, not in a time-restricted window, we are forcing our body and our muscle to use glucose. We do not want to do that. We want to allow our muscle to use fat. And when you're increasing your physical activity, then you use carbohydrates. So what you're asking is, is it healthy for a skeletal muscle? And are you burning And I would say, if you are eating in a time-restricted window and you are controlling for calories and your muscle is healthy, then your muscle is doing what it should do. And that is at rest, primarily burning fatty acids. The more activity you use, the more glucose you're going to use.

Another big topic, I was going to ask you this as well, is leaky gut that a lot of people are talking about. And when people have a leaky gut, things can get into their bloodstream, and there's all kinds of things that can impact. What should we know about that both leaky gut and lectons.

Yes. Well, let's focus on leaky gut because I think that that's a term thrown around all the time, and it's really important. Leaky gut is not a medical diagnosis, but it's actually something that we've focused on in our clinic for over 10 years. That was some of the first work that I did. The idea of healthy gut integrity is, so visually, if you put your hands together and this is your intestine, when you have leaky gut, these gap junctions So these are gap junctions. They open. And you can detect a protein called zonulin. And zonulin would be increased if someone is diagnosed with, quote, leaky gut. And there's a whole host of reasons why someone's gut health has been affected. And when we think about the integrity of our gut, it's not about what you eat, primarily. It's about what you absorb. The healthier your gut is, the more capable you are at absorbing nutrients and micronutrients. Gut health is very important. And how do you know if you've got good gut health or if you don't? You should not be bloated when you're eating. You shouldn't even think about your digestion.

Interesting. Yeah, it's such a big That's a big thing. And I think when I think about two, I would say two of the biggest things that I feel like are mainstream, not quite mainstream, but are going to be mainstream, I think of muscle, thanks to you, in big part, and also leaky gut. I think those are the two things where people are still... Maybe they're not even on their radar yet, and they can impact so many areas of their health.

That's interesting. Why do you think leaky gut? Is it because people are suffering from a lot of GI issues?

Yes. And I think that for so long, there's never been a connection made at a mainstream level between your gut health and every other part of your being, your gut health and your mental health, your gut health and your physical health, your gut health and your moods.

And your gut health and muscle.

And your gut health and muscle. And similar muscle, right? I think at the mainstream level, that hasn't been part of the conversation until your work, until everything you're putting out there, that like, Oh, wow, muscle impacts everything.

Yes. I want to touch on something that I think people don't recognize. Gut health and gut integrity is very important. And like you said, gut can improve. If your gut is healthy, the majority of a serotonin, which is a happy neurotransmitter, is made in primarily in the gut. And did you know this, which is very... Most people don't think about it and very unusual. You can make compounds, something like Urolithin A, which is a postbiotic. If you eat pomegranates or berries, your body, well, only 40% of us will make a compound called urolithin A in the gut. And that actually improves the health of mitochondria, which mitochondria is the powerhouses of the cell. It's where we get our energy. It's why we feel that we have improved endurance and strength. It comes down to the health of our mitochondria. And just making a muscle no gut connection, urolithin A is that connector. It's just one example, but it's a postbiotic made in the gut that then goes and affects the mitochondria and the health of the skeleton muscle.

Wow. That's if we have a healthy We gut, 40 % of us. I feel like in 2026, for me, two of my biggest goals are muscle and gut.

Hey, so I know this doctor- I do, too. That would be very committed to helping you with this transformation. In, because my job is to help take care of people that change the world. Truly, that is my privilege.

And you do. I mean, I barely got to brag about you in the intro, but there are so many people who, like you, are changing the in big ways, and you are their doctor. You are their advisor.

Many mutual friends of ours, yes. Because it's so important. And we're talking about this from a perspective that is about health. We're talking about it from a muscle perspective and a nutrition perspective. But really, if an individual wants to be the best version of themselves, the common denominator for how they they can do it, for how big they can show up in their life, is going to be their health. You cannot overcome that. If you are not taking care of your health, then you are never going to be able to show up in the way fully that you need to because it's just the way that it is.

Yeah, I feel that. I feel that. And there's days... Can't even believe I'm telling you this, but I know you love me, so it's okay. There's days where I'm like, I eat eat the worst food. The other day, my kids had all these Swedish fish. I don't even want to tell you how many Swedish fish I ate, but I felt awful the rest of the day. I had brain fog. So it's true. If we're not taking care of our health, it impacts how we show up. It impacts if we even are playing full out or even enjoying the day, really, honestly.

You make a really good point. Because of that high carbohydrate Swedish load, it probably affected your blood sugar. And you see that with brain fog. And then you're hungry the rest of the day. You're chasing this hunger.

When you're using the example of muscle and like a suitcase, you only pack for four days. And your muscle, you want it lean. And when you pack for 14 days, you're eating all kinds of carbs and this and that. Your suitcase is overflowing that you packed for. Your muscles are filled with all this stuff. They're full. They can't process the new stuff. I was thinking like, oh, sometimes Sometimes I feel like I'm packing for Armageddon, or I'm packing for life.

But you could have done push-ups right after. And if someone is thinking, Okay, well, what can I do if that happens? Go for a walk or use movement. Leverage your skeleton muscle to help recorrect and rebalance yourself right away.

Right away. So if you down a bunch of candy.

If you do, I'm not saying that you should. Of course. And we're going to talk about that there are predictable vulnerabilities, and how do we account for those. But let's say you do, because we all do, including myself, do some push-ups, go for a walk. If you take immediate action and then control that narrative in your mind, you just had a moment, and then you take an action, you'll improve your metabolism, you'll improve yourself metabolically, but also you'll stop any internal narrative shaming, which is really important.

Oh, that's good. When we were talking earlier, when we were walking outside and I was I'm like, Do you eat all the recipes in the playbook? Because they're good. I'm like, Are you eating them? You're like, Yeah, I eat them. Of course. I created them. And so that's exciting because you can eat really, really, really well and have something besides a whole bunch of candy and still get that joy. But can you talk about that? Because when it comes to mindset, I love that you go so deep in this book in the sense of you talk about things every one of us can relate to, which is like, okay, feeling horrible that we're judging ourselves that we just down a whole bunch of candy. And you talk about mindset solutions to that. Can you talk about just big picture? Because you say discipline is the new self-care. Discipline is the new self-care. How can we love some discipline in our lives versus dreading it and actually look forward to it the way we might look forward to other forms of self-care?

Well, I put the mindset chapter in there because the average person, and I was just thinking about myself and my girlfriends, they probably have 27 diet books, 27 fitness books, 27 health books. So what is the disconnect between the information and the action? And I spent a lot of time thinking about it. And people will not take action if they're interested, but they'll take action if they are committed and they are educated and then inspired. And this is what pushes people to take action. I wanted to be able to clarify how people were thinking for themselves. We track our nutrition and we track our training, but very rarely do we build a program to build mental muscle. I think that that's the real disconnect. The first thing that we have to plan for is, well, and this is a little bit out of order, is weaknesses. I think that always play to our strengths, but people have experiences like you had about the Swedish fish. It shouldn't be surprising. So next time you have Swedish fish, we should have a plan in place because it will It will happen, and it's predictable. And if you build a plan prior, then you are much less likely to go ahead and unconsciously go about something that is going to be harmful for your health.

Because it's coming. And so you plan for everything else in your life, and we all plan for things in our lives, but we do not plan for our vulnerabilities or where we will go off track. And we can do that.

Is that a secret weapon to discipline also? Oh, yeah. Having a great... Yeah.

So discipline comes from discernment. And discernment is this ability to understand, is this thought relevant relevant or not? Is this information relevant or not? And you can very quickly determine if it is or if it isn't. Once you decide that something is relevant, then you can take the next right action. And then that next right action will compound, and then you will get more disciplined because you know that action to take, and then you get freedom.

I'm curious on behalf of anyone listening who may also dread exercise. We need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire, because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected, more inspired, and more worthy. Who you spend time around is so so important as energy is contagious, and so is self-belief. And I love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernleema. Com to make sure you're on the list, and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm Your Girl, subscribe at jamiekernleema.

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Jamie's Bookworthy is incredible. The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on worthybook. Com. And now more of this incredible conversation together. I'm curious on behalf of anyone listening who may also dread exercise like me or who just does not want to do it. And I have to do it in the morning. I have to do it first thing.

But is there a reason? Think about this. Why? If you were to examine, why do you dread the exercise? It's probably never that bad. It's so beautiful here, right?

It's never that bad. And I always feel better after. And having taken care of a parent for almost a decade who lost her ability to move, I just really try to focus on I get to. I don't have to, I get to. But what I find is I do... So I do my workouts first thing in the morning. If I don't, I will dread it all day long, literally all day long. So I I want to ask you, because you have impacted millions of people, so many people I know just celebrate your work and have talked about the impact it's had on them personally. And so many people everyone listening knows have shared that. But what are the keys to discipline? When we don't feel very disciplined, what are the keys when we're like, You know what? I would so much rather just chill on the couch or just stay working on my laptop for another 10 million hours. Because I find we can be disciplined in the things we inherently like or maybe disciplined in the patterns that currently exist. One of my patterns is just working way too Okay, that's great. You do work a lot.

I do work a lot. That's great. I love it. I enjoy. Okay, but what do we do for the person who wants to start this, who wants to start the six-week plan that's in the playbook, which I say I have to love. Six weeks feels like doable.

It's like, okay, it feels doable. Yeah, and that's why we picked 6 weeks.

You picked 6 weeks. Yes. Okay. How do we start for the person that's like, I do not want to, but I know I need to. I know I need to, right? No one's going to do what they don't want to do. But for the person who's decided they want to do this, they want to incorporate focusing on their muscle. They want to incorporate making a decision to age well. Maybe they're learning all kinds of things on this podcast, which I'm learning live, by the way. I feel all the things that you said. I feel now educated, and I also feel inspired, and I want to do it. But for the person who struggles with discipline in an area that they just don't inherently like or don't have habits doing, what do you say to them?

The first thing I say is, what an opportunity. This is such an opportunity to further sharpen themselves and that people are not necessarily motivated to exercise. I don't. There are days, are you kidding? But I am already committed, and so I never have to rely on if I want to or not. We do not want you in a place where you are relying on motivation. That is cognitively taxing. The first thing someone needs to do is say, Okay, I'm going to be committed to this. I need to get someone's buy-in. And if they say yes, then we start practicing discipline, not in food and exercise. We do not practice Practice building the discipline muscle in the area you hate. Are you ready for it? Say, for example, you love going to Starbucks. And so what I'm going What they tell you is ways to create friction in your life that you're going to become more tolerant of. Do you like Starbucks?

I do.

Heads, you flip a coin. Heads, you get to have that Starbucks. Tails, you don't. That would be annoying. If three days in a row, you were at Starbucks, you purchased the Starbucks, and you flipped heads three days in a row or whichever to not get the Starbucks. This generates a small amount of friction that you have to begin to tolerate. Uncomfortable, just a little bit. And that's one way that you begin to create friction. And there's various ways of friction. There's emotional friction, there's physical There's physical friction. There's mental friction. Physical friction would be, my husband hates doing anything related to dishes. For one hour a day, we pick a task, and we don't do this every day. We pick a task that he absolutely doesn't like to do. No phones, no distractions. He's fully committed to doing that one task. And over time, It builds this muscle up where once we have a plan in place, it's not about thinking, am I motivated or not?

It's about that you've now built this muscle of when I decide something and commit to it, it's what I do.

And there's no narrative about it.

You don't negotiate with yourself?

No. Yeah.

That's so good. I've never heard this before. I've never heard it put this way. And I think this is really genius because I'm imagining how I'd feel if I'm going to get my Starbucks coffee or whatever it is. It's annoying, right? And I've just decided if I flip a coin, I get it. If I don't, I don't. And what's going to happen is I flip the coin, and let's say it says I don't get it. And my first thought will be like, Should I ignore the coin today? Or maybe I'll start negotiating with myself, which a lot of us do this. We think like, Oh, I have committed to going to the gym three times a week, or maybe I've committed every day to doing a morning walk. But actually, I don't feel like I'm going to start tomorrow. I'm going to start my diet tomorrow. Those are all these ways we negotiate with ourselves because maybe that muscle of I'm not negotiating with myself isn't built yet. And you're saying, Oh, here's some ways to add discipline into our lives. And I love this so much because I'm imagining, I want everyone at home to imagine this with me.

And you could do it. It could be anything. It could be like every day you put your favorite jam, your favorite as ever jam on your toast with your butter. And maybe you love it so much. And you're like, Okay, you know what? Three days this week, I'm going to flip a coin. If If I get the tails, I'm not having that today. And then you don't negotiate with yourself. You just make that decision. And then you apply that later to like, Okay, I've decided I'm going to do resistance training twice a week or three times, whatever it might be, and you don't negotiate yourself.

You practice overcoming this internal friction, but not within the thing that you hate. And this could be anything. It could be you are someone who loves listening to loud music and having your coffee. Flip a coin. Today, you get that music, or you don't.

And then over time, when you start getting good at applying the decision without negotiating with yourself, without talking yourself out of it, then do you start applying it to the things you don't like. Yeah.

And can you imagine that, again, there's not this initial friction of, Oh, gosh, I hate going to the gym. I've already had you practice a million different ways to add friction and prove It's given to you that you can overcome that.

Yeah. And then you just make the decision.

You're already committed.

This isn't a negotiation. I'm committed.

You're committed. And then you practice discernment. If you are hearing a thought in your mind that's like, Oh, I should do this, it's It's just noise. The brain is an organ, and the brain produces thoughts, just like the muscle produces myokines and the thyroid produces thyroid hormone. But the brain producing thoughts doesn't mean all of them are relevant. And it's just doing what the brain does. When you recognize that, you can practice a level of discernment that is this a relevant thought or not, and then you take the next right action. And you have a plan to do it. And what is largely missing in the health and wellness space and the connection between action is actually practicing building a strong mental foundation. Because we hear things, but it doesn't allow us to practice discipline or practice thinking a different way because we don't have a playbook for that.

It's so good. And you have people go, Oh, this diet is popular. That's happening. This... People, meaning myself and a whole lot of other people. Oh, this is a... But building that strong mental foundation when it comes to discipline.

I have another one for you. Oh, I want to hear it. I don't know if you're going to like this one. Okay. Celebrate every fifth win. Don't celebrate every win. Oftentimes, and people are going to be like, Gabrielle, that sounds negative. No. Because what we're building is a level of neutrality. As I think about when I was writing this playbook, what did the people that were most capable do? What were the attributes and characteristics that they had? Because I think part of being a good doctor is to be able to do the obvious, which is recognize patterns of disease. But being an effective doctor is recognizing patterns of people. It is such a privilege to care for people. Then you see this separation between those that continue to do well, both in their life and in their health. And one of the core attributes that really struck out to me was this level of neutrality. And a way to practice neutrality, which means they never get too high and they never get too low. And there are ways to practice this neutrality. And one of those ways is to not celebrate every win, every fifth win.

You acknowledge. And again, maybe that sounds negative, but imagine what that would do. If you do not celebrate every win when something goes well, you acknowledge it, and then it's just not a good or bad thing. But then you allow yourself to celebrate that fifth win, and you're like, Okay, I'm so proud of myself on this. You become less accustomed to the external environment and also the internal noise of your brain.

Do you experience less joy?

No. You find that you can actually turn joy on when you want to.

And it's not wind dependent.

It's not wind dependent. And that's exactly right, because joy and happiness, it will never come from anything external or anything that you do. And then you think about really delegating your time. Delegating is the wrong word. Really focusing in on your time. And I'm talking about this as actions, but they have physiological effects on people's bodies. And that's what we're really for. We're really controlling this ebb and flow of dopamine, drive and motivation. We're talking about for the mainstream, what are the actions and the framework that we can put in place now? But what it's really doing is it's exercising our brain and putting a mental framework in place where we are controlling our dopamine I mean, our drive and motivation on the back end by our actions on the future end.

Which makes it less likely that I would want to sit on the couch and eat some Swedish fish for instant, whatever, for instant, feeling good and put it on the back end. Okay. All right. If you could erase, if you could just erase one piece of mainstream health advice from the past decade or even the past 50 years, what would that be?

That's easy. That dietary cholesterol is bad for us. And I know that that throws a wrench in things, but people will go to their doctor and they will say, My doctor told me not to eat meat because it's bad for my cholesterol. That has been taken. Dietary recommendations for cholesterol, for the most part, has been taken out of the guidelines. It was taken out in 2015. There is very little relationship between dietary cholesterol and blood level cholesterol.

Wow, because so many people think like, Oh, I have high cholesterol. I need to stop eating foods with cholesterol. And you're saying that they're not necessarily quality.

They took it out of the guidelines, the recommendations. Do you want me to give you another one? So that way you can pick and choose which you'll cut in.

We'll keep them all.

But think about it. Someone goes to their doctor and they go, I want to be healthy. And the doctor says, Okay, well, eat a low cholesterol diet. No, that's not going to work. And it's also taking out a bunch of healthy foods.

That's number one.

The other myth I think, that we have is that people think saturated fat is really bad for us, and it's really been overblown. Our bodies make saturated fat, just so we're clear. And in the dietary guidelines, it's set at 10% saturated fat. But because it's set at 10% saturated fat, which is essentially a made-up number, it eliminates almost all animal-based foods. For example, do you believe an egg is healthy? Yes, it is. It's great for choline and fat-soluble vitamins. But according to the guidelines, because an egg has 18% saturated fat, and an egg is small and the amount is little, it would not be considered a healthy food. So So these recommendations have allowed the system to weaponize our food.

Cocoonut would be another one, right?

Exactly. And nearly any animal product.

When you think about the biggest myths about protein and resistance training, building muscle, what myths do you want to just debunk right now?

Number one, protein is not bad for the kidneys, and it's It's not bad for bone. Our bone is made of proteins. That's number one. That's probably one of the biggest... You've heard that, right? I don't want to eat too much protein. It's bad for our bones. It's bad for our kidneys. That is not true. From a resistance training standpoint, ladies, you're not going to get bulky. It's never going to happen. And it's never too late to start. One more myth is that people will say, I've never lifted weights. And I'll say, But do you have a toddler? Do you have luggage? You've lifted weights your whole life.

You've just never had a structured weight training program. For a woman who feels this narrative around aging is limiting her in terms of her confidence, whether she's in her 20s or her 80s, what would you What do you say about that?

Aging is inevitable. There is nothing that we can do about that. But strength is a responsibility, and it's not a luxury. It's coming for all of us, and we have way more agency over how we want to age than we ever recognize before. And that starts with muscle. Muscle is not about vanity. It truly is a responsibility. And if someone says, I don't have time for diet and exercise because I'm too busy, I would say, then how are you going to have time for illness?

So good. That's so good. For someone who's like, All right, I'm going to get my health on track, what test should they ask their doctor for when they walk in? And maybe they just go once a year to the doctor, but what blood test should they ask for and exactly what should they say? Okay.

Well, number one, hopefully now, your doctor is going to recognize the importance of skeletal muscle. It's coming. Number two, the markers that we think about metabolic syndrome. Metabolic syndrome is greater than 30% body fat, elevated blood pressure, elevated triglycerides, glucose, and insulin. Those are not indicators of adipose tissue. Those are indicators of unhealthy skelet muscle because muscle is the primary site for our metabolic sink. When you have unhealthy skelet muscle, you have elevated levels of triglycerides, of glucose, and insulin. So all an individual has to say is, Please test me for metabolic syndrome. And then, Please tell the doctor that you recognize that This is actually a test for the health of your skeletal muscle, because muscle is the focal point. And why we have all these chronic health issues is there's a mismatch between our nutrition and our muscle health.

If a person says to their doctor, I want to be tested for metabolic health, and the doctor says, Why? What do they say? And how do I ask this? How How can it seem appropriate for maybe a doctor that's maybe not that sophisticated on these things?

Well, the good news is those are foundational markers that should be in everyone's blood panel. And also there is a ton of access. At-home test kits, Direct to consumer blood. We have a whole telemedicine clinic that we can read their blood for them. They don't have to come to Houston. I don't want to say they should change doctors, but if your doctor is not beginning to focus on your metabolic health, then we have a problem because your metabolic health is a precursor for all these other diseases of aging. Because you don't want to wait till you get cardiovascular disease to fix it. You don't want to wait till you get diabetes. These things don't just happen. There are indications early on.

And a lot of times when people get those things, then they're just medicated for those things versus fixing That's right. The metabolic.

Can you imagine muscle is medicine? I could not give you a better pill that would transform your entire system other than physical activity. I couldn't. Because muscle makes up 40% of your body weight. Can you imagine when this organ system is inflamed? It creates a cascade of problems. On the flip side, if this tissue is healthy, It's anti-inflammatory. It's good for bone. It's good for brain. It is critical, and it's under voluntary control.

I'm inspired. I am inspired to pay attention to my muscle and even just think about it. I have to tell you, I would not be shocked if maybe every day of my life, since maybe I was 11 and probably started dieting somewhere between 11 and 14, I have thought about weight, body issues, fat, cellular, all those things. The number of days I've thought about muscle, very few. And this is So eye-opening and so inspiring and so empowering and so freeing and so exciting. So I'm grateful for that. And your brand new book that's out right now that Everyone should go pick up the Forever Strong Playbook, a six-week science-based plan to sharpen your mind, strengthen your body, and get healthy at any age. There's 60 recipes, illustrated workouts inside. The illustrations even have Dr. G's tattoos on them, which I love. For the person, and I know there's ground-breaking science in it, exactly what to eat, how to exercise, what would you say to everyone listening on what they can expect when they pick up their copy and what it's going to do for them in their life?

Well, I wrote this book because I wanted it, and it provides a space for them to write and to think differently and construct a life that is by their choice. And it's a book of freedom, really. It's a book of mental and physical freedom. They'll know exactly how to think, how to eat, how to move, how to recover. And I believe that it is going to change people's lives. I wrote another book called Forever Strong, but I feel so passionate about this book. It's not just a book you pick up with a bunch of words. It has pictures and places. It's an interactive playbook that I spent so much time thinking about. Because at the end of the day, I believe that we can all be stronger together. And I am just one voice. It is going to take so much more than one voice. It is going to take a movement, a forever strong movement, a cultural shift of empowerment.

I love that in the book, there's a lot of prompts that help you think about your own mindset. And there's questions that when you get your book home, your playbook home, you'll write in your own answers to some of your obstacles, some of the things that you want freedom from. I mean, it goes so much beyond what to How to exercise and what to eat, which is in there as well with the latest research and science-based plan, which I think is so helpful. But it's just this whole 360 playbook. Transformation tool, and that's what I want.

People can use muscle to pull the lever of their mind and also use their mind to pull the lever of muscle. It's this bi-directional relationship. And ultimately, how do we become the best version of ourselves?

Having had the gift of getting a sneak peek copy of the book as well, I feel like I can answer this. But for you, what would you say to the person listening or maybe 2-3 things that are the most important takeaways from the book that are going to impact their lives right away and why they should pick it up, no matter their age, no matter their current lifestyle, no matter their current... Whether they're like me and they have not been lifting weights for a while or anything else.

It's never too late to strong. Become committed to being strong. Number two, prioritize dietary protein. Plan for it. We need it. Number three, pick and commit to a physical activity. It doesn't have to be crazy that you're going to do every day. It could be as small as going for a 10-minute walk after a meal. You have to make these choices for yourself rather than choices made for you later on in life.

I love the example you gave of, okay, if you ate all the sweetest fish, but then you actually do pushups right after, or you go for a walk or whatever. Here's what happens in your body that changes.

It's fascinating. And also Also, you might not be able to change your mind about it. You might be disappointed, or you might be upset at yourself. And I might say, ignore the narrative. And you may or may not be able to do that, but you 100 % of the time can and take that next physical step. And so it's leveraging muscle when perhaps the mentality is not there.

Yeah, that's so good.

That's so good. I'm going to give you one more tip. Use this or not. But oftentimes people get really hooked in to... Say they get triggered, and they are very hooked and in a dark place. I would say, and this is in the playbook, pick something physically challenging, and it doesn't have to be a run. It could be go into the cold plunge. It could be do a max out sprint on a bike or a treadmill or a row or pick your poison. It is impossible to be consumed about what is going on in your head for those 30 seconds. And it allows a space for freedom. If you're listening or watching, try it. It is impossible to be locked into any negative thought when you are pushing your physicality. Again, cold plunge is It could be very uncomfortable. And it's just a little glimpse of freedom that you can begin to develop over time.

Do you always feel so much better after you work out?

I have never heard someone say, I feel so much work.

I'm in a bad mood now that I've worked out.

I feel so much worse after I did that.

Yeah. And I love that saying, you want to change your mood, change your body, just start moving, which is good. I've always heard that correlation. I've never heard or understood at the level you've explained it today in this conversation, and then even deeper in your playbook at just how many areas it impacts and why and why we need to do it. It's eye-opening. It's going to help so many people and inspire so many people. And I'm so grateful for you and your leadership in this space, your Championship of Health, of women and men. There are so many men who are huge thought leaders in our country that call you their doctor and also their advisor. But I just want to thank you for your care. It's been a gift also to see you and get to know you as a friend outside of any of this and to get to know your heart, but also to watch how committed and strong you are at championing other people, their health, their wellness, and really the topic of muscle as the key to longevity, as the organ of longevity. And congratulations just on how mainstream this is going and how many people you're impacting.

I'm honored to be one of them. And just thank you so much for being on the show.

Thank you so much, Jamie.

Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person that you know because it can impact and change their life, too. And if you love today's episode, please click on the subscribe or follow button for the show on the app you're listening to it on or watching it on. And if it added value to your life, if you could please give it a rating or review, we love a good five star. I would be so grateful. And again, please share this episode with everyone you believe in. Share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it. Maybe someone you know is making a change in their health, in their fitness, or in their life right now. Please post this episode and share it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today. You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. And thank you so much for joining me today. Before you go, I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You, right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy.

You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. And it is an honor to I welcome you to each and every episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. Here, I hope you'll come as you are. Heal where you need. Blossom what you choose. Journey toward your calling and stay as long as you'd like because you belong here. You are worthy, you are loved, you are loved, and I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy: How to Believe You are Enough and Transform Your Life for You. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you. In worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love. Unlearnt the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness.

Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook. Com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with worthy. Who you spend time around is so so important as energy is contagious, and so is self-belief. And I love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernleema. Com to make sure you're on the list, and you'll get your One on One with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl.

Subscribe at jamiekernleema. Com or in the link in the show notes. And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.