Most humans believe one of three lies. I am worthless, I'm unlovable, or I am helpless. One, at some point, got into your life and began to define your life. For me, mine was, I am worthless. These narratives have gotten there, and they've stayed there for long enough that it's really hard to rewire our brains. It's really hard to change the story, but you can. You can. You can.
Humming up in this incredible episode with Jenny Allen.
Why don't I believe I'm Why do I think I don't have what it takes? Why do I think other people can go after their dreams, but I just can't? And on and on and on. When we believe negative lies about ourselves, how does it impact our life?
The storyline behind those negative thoughts that we all feel that you just named, and there's so many more. There's this real fear that deep down we think it's true. We hope it's a lie. We pray that it's not true. In fact, we try to fix ourselves, and we spend a lot of energy pretending that we don't believe those things, that we are perfectly secure and confident. There's these running things that we have just been programmed to think that have been there so long that we don't even question them. And now what I can say about today, that lie that I'm worthless, that I know how to recognize it. I know it's a lie. I don't wonder anymore if it's true. And I can spot it and I can speak to it. I can put her on trial.
Hi, it's Jamie. I'm so happy you are here today. If you ever find yourself thinking thoughts like, I'm not enough. I'm worthless. Or I'm helpless and can't do it on my own, or I'm unlovable.
Those are lies. And sometimes they're even lies.
We don't realize we're believing.
And when we believe them, they can sabotage all areas of our lives, from our career to our friendships, to our romantic and family our relationships, to our faith, to our joy and happiness. And today, I am so excited for this conversation because we're joined by Jenny Allen, who's here to share how to find that lie you're believing right now, how to dismantle it, and how to live free, finally. Jenny Allen is a New York Times best-selling author, speaker, podcaster, Bible teacher, and founder of the Visionary If gathering, a global movement that over the past decade decade has reached more than one million women in 179 countries through in-person and online gatherings. And she has a brand new book out called The Lie You Don't Know You Believe: How to Find It, Fight It, and Live Free. I am so excited for this conversation today because I know firsthand that lies can hold us back, keep us stuck, and sabotage our calling. And when we learn to stop believing them, it can transform everything in our lives. And whether today you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family.
Thank you so much for being here.
And if you take one second, just hit the subscribe or follow button on the app that you're listening or watching on.
It truly means the world to me.
You can also get more inspiration free right into your inbox from me to you. Just join my newsletter community at jamiekernlema.
Com. Also, this incredible podcast episode today, it's not just for you and me.
Please share it with every single person that you know who might need some inspiration today, or perhaps a boost in their own belief or to stop believing a lie in their life right now, because what you're about to hear can truly impact mine, yours, and their life, too.
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Imagine overcoming self-doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough.
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Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima. Jenny Allen. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.
Oh, Jamie. It is such an honor to be here. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
I'm So excited you're here. I read your new book, Cover to Cover. Love it. And it is something that, as you and I both know, we've both been impacted by believing lies. And I feel like it's probably one of the most common questions I get asked by viewers, listeners, friends, people I know. It's just like, why don't I believe I'm enough? Why do I think I don't have what it takes? Why do I think other people can go after their dreams? But I just can't? And on and on, and on. And so I'm so excited for this. And a lot of people are aware that they have negative self-taught, and maybe they are believing lies that aren't true, or maybe they don't even know the lies they're believing. And just right off the top, when we believe negative lies about ourselves, how does it impact our life?
Well, let me start with a story. Yes. So I'm sitting across from my daughter, Kate, who at the time was about 21, and she's just dynamic. I mean, one of the most likable people you've ever met, just everybody knows her. She lights up a room. She's a successful photographer. She's married to the darling young guy, and they're starting their lives together. And we're at the airport together, and we're having a meal. And she begins to tell me, just open up vulnerably, I'm defective. I'm broken. Something is really wrong with me. And she's just saying these things to me. And as her mom who sees her as just one of the most dynamic humans I've ever known, I'm furious. Like, everything inside of me is just wanting to fix this. I want to preach. I want to tell her what's true. But what was so shocking and what broke my heart was even when I tried to tell her this is a lie. This isn't true. She was like, You can't tell me that. You're my mom. Meaning all of those horrible things she just said about herself, she actually thinks they're true. And so I just think the storyline behind those negative thoughts that we all feel that you just named, and there's so many more.
There's this real fear that deep down we think it's true. We hope it's a lie. We pray that it's not true. In fact, we try to fix ourselves, and we spend a lot of energy pretending that we don't believe those things, that we are perfectly secure and confident. Something I think down deep in all of us. And sitting across from my daughter that day was... It was one of those moments where as a mom, you just think, What did I do? How did I allow for this to happen? And I felt this deep, deep conviction and just stopped me in my tracks because I realized, Okay, I actually believe the same things, even today. I mean, today I'm feeling pretty good. I did my hair and makeup. I feel pretty good today. But you know what? Yesterday, I was struggling with these again. And so I think there's these He's running things that we have just been programmed to think that have been there so long that we don't even question them. And so my prayer and my hope is that the conversation we have today, that this book, it causes us to start to question them.
Is it true? Is this something I've just accepted maybe for decades of my life?
For you in your life, as you just shared what your daughter believe, thank you for sharing that. For you in your life, Because I know so many women and men, everyone's going to relate to this. What are some of the biggest lies you've believed, and how have they impacted you? Because I know now, and your book is so powerful, the lie why you don't know you believe. Because a lot of us, we just go through life or we take it as truth, or we're not even realizing it. And you go into how to find it, fight it, and live free. You go into dismantling lies, which I have questions about, too. I'm so excited about this conversation. Because our identity, who we are, what we believe, we're worthy of, all the things. And so for you, because there's a lot of people out there, millions of people out there who are inspired by you, by your work, by your offerings to the world. And I think that it's easy to be at home going, Oh, she has everything. She must not believe that... She must have no issues. She must not. And then people think they're alone in their self-doubts or they're alone in maybe the lies they believe about themselves.
Maybe they don't realize their lies. But what lies have you believed about yourself? And can you share a little bit about how those have impacted your life?
Let me first say, I want to go backwards and talk about my core lie and where it came from, because I think all of us can look back and trace it. We can find the thing that we've believed. Most humans believe one of three lies. This is from Psych 101. This is just common knowledge. I am I'm unlovable, or I am helpless. Those are three core lies. Now, we all believe those at different points in our life, but probably one core one at some point got into your life and began to define your life. For me, mine was, I am worthless. And I remember being in sixth grade, and I remember being on my dad's lap, and it was a really sweet moment. We were looking at the popcorn ceiling together. We were in his big recliner. I was still a little girl. I hadn't gone through puberty yet. And I was headed into sixth grade, and we were talking about middle school. And he started just running through a list about boys, totally innocent things, boys and homecoming and all these little things that were going to come up in the coming year. But what I heard was, these are the grades you need to make.
Are you going to be liked by boys? Are you going to hit these marks? Are you going to make cheerleading? He was just trying to talk to me. It was so innocent on his part. And yet I remember that moment like it was yesterday. And it was the moment where I thought, oh, gosh, I need to hit some marks to matter. I don't remember feeling it before that. I probably did. There were probably moments of insecurity or ways that I picked up I should behave a certain way or should measure up in a certain way. But I remember that day like it was yesterday. And it was like my life turned, and it turned from freedom and creativity, and joy, and play, and light-heartedness to hustle, and stress, and failure, and I can't get where I think I'm supposed to get. And I wish you could read this book, I could write this book, and never feel those things again. But it was almost like When I was writing the book, I felt like my sixth grade self all over again, even worse, because I was now saying, This is something we can fight together.
But I was also feeling like nothing I was building or doing. It was almost like I was being attacked with the thing I was trying to help people get. Does that make sense? And I say that because we could We could just tell ourselves, It's not true. Don't ever believe it again.
Right.
And yet what's happened is these narratives have gotten there, and they've stayed there for long enough that it's really hard to rewire our brains. It's really hard to change the story, but you can. You can. You can. And now what I can say about today, that lie that I'm worthless, that I know how to recognize it. I know it's a lie. I don't wonder anymore if it's true. And I can spot it, and I can speak to it. I can put her on trial. I don't have to just accept it. I don't have to agree with it. So many of our thoughts, we just agree with, just naturally like, Oh, It's a thought. It must be true. And if we don't agree with it, if we begin to put it on trial and go, Is this true? Where is this coming from? You can begin to shift it.
Can you share with the three most common lies that most people believe? Can you just share a little bit for the person listening who's like, I want to figure this out. What is the lie that's affecting me the most? And can you explain a little bit about what those three look like for most people that have them and what ways they might show up in their lives. So people are like, Oh, that's me. Because when you share this, I know right away for me, I'm very similar to you. I'm like, Oh, I remember I used to do I did gymnastics growing up, and my parents were always working, and so they'd always be the last to show up. And I mean, I was so loved. I wouldn't change... By the way, I would not change a thing. I'm so blessed, so grateful, all the things. And also, I learned if I achieve something, they leave work and show up. So if I win an award at school, then they show up, right? So I'm able to trace back now, why is it that I built a company and worked 100-hour weeks for a decade? And why is it that even sometimes right now I'd rather work and do podcast prep than even just be present with my family?
Why is it? And I go back to like, Oh, yeah. It's because I think I don't feel worthy unless I'm achieving believing.
I want to talk about how old were you? What age comes to mind?
I would say nine. Okay.
So little nine-year-old Jamie. I'm just thinking of her. What you ultimately wanted, did you want to be important? Did you want to matter? Did you No, you wanted your parents. You didn't want to be alone. Yeah. At the core of all of this. And so let's just start with this tremendous grace. Grace for yourself as you're sharing this, grace for everybody listening as they're thinking about this. Everybody take a really deep breath because we are all the same. We all just want to be loved and seen and known and accepted. We're not complicated. We really just want basic things.
We need to pause for a super brief break.
And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire, because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected, more inspired, and more worthy.
In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worth: How to Believe You are Enough and Transform Your Life for You. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you. In worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearnt the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness. Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook. Com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with worthy.
Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious, and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernleema. Com to make sure you're on the list, and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jamiecernleema. Com or in the link in the show notes. Do you struggle with negative self-taught? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful. And when you learn to take control over your self-taught, it's life-changing.
And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life. It's called Five Ways to Overcome Negative Self-Talk and Build Self-Love. And it's a free how-to guide to overcome that negative self-taught to build confidence and develop unshakable self-love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self-sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life when filled with self-love, resilience, and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence and empower yourself to persevere They're on the path to your dreams. You can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekernleema. Com/resources, or click the link in the show notes below. And now more of this incredible conversation together.
We are all the same. We all just want to be loved and seen and known and accepted. We're not complicated. We really just want basic things. You wanted your parents to show up. You want to know that that you're loved and somebody knows your name, and they're so happy that you're alive. And these are just human desires. And so I think it's so good to start here because we can tend to hear the word lie and beat ourselves up and think to ourselves I shouldn't think that way. I shouldn't feel worthless. God loves me. People love me. Here's the truth. Stick it on. So it can feel almost transactional, I need to fix this. And the reality is, we're just people that... I love my counselor. He says, We come into the world looking for someone looking for us, like little babies when they're born. They come into the world going, Who's out there? Who loves me? Who's going to pick me up? Who cares about me? And we never stop. When we're 80, we're still looking for somebody looking for us. So I just think that's so precious, that gymnastics story, because it really does, I think, go to the core of what we're actually after.
And so when I think of those three lies, I'm worthless, there's something Everything in us, all of us, really, that just wants to believe that we can matter, that we can arrive and hit the mark. And so we tend to beat ourselves up when we don't. We tend to be really hard on ourselves when there's failure. We hate failure. We're afraid of failure. And so there's a lot of striving in our lives. There's just a lot of working and hustling and not wanting to be too much, but also really I wanted to be enough. And so the way my brain works is I just always feel like there's a line and it keeps moving, and I'm just trying to hit it. But then I hit it. Dang it. And I thought that would be it, and it moves again. And so, yeah, that one I'm familiar with. And then helpless. A lot of people that I interviewed, a lot of people I am friends with that struggle with this one often have abuse in their background. They had something in their childhood that they couldn't control. And so maybe it was verbal, maybe it was sexual, maybe it was physical, or maybe it was just a really hard life.
They were in poverty or something that they just couldn't control. And so circumstances, their mom got cancer. It could have been something like that where they had no control. And so a lot of feelings that people express to me when they say, I feel helpless, it's, I can't ever change. This will never change about me. I'm just this way. I don't think people really want to be around me because I'm just stuck. I can't get my life together. Those are some of the phrases that I hear.
Like, everything's out of my control. Yeah. Like, I can't.
Right. Yeah. And then the other one is, I'm unlovable. And I certainly feel this way. I think we all feel this way some days. But for a lot of people, It's a sense of feeling forgotten or feeling like they maybe grew up in a home where there was a disconnect emotionally, and they didn't have parents that could really be there for them. And so they're always looking to connect emotionally. And there's a real high approval of the idol. They want to be liked, and they want to be seen, and they want to be understood. And so a lot of things that I'll hear from them have to do with insecurity of just being rejected or feeling left out or feeling like, why wasn't I included in that? And that really crushing them in a unique way, where that one just really has them. They really want to be included. I think we all want to be all these things, right? We all want to We all want to have control. We all want to not be helpless. We all want to be matter and succeed and not be worthless. We all want to be loved and accepted.
And so we all have these desires. But I think depending on what the narrative was playing in your life, there's one that really just feels true.
And in addition to the three core lies, you say, two, there's others. There's others, right? That people could potentially believe in. So for someone I'm listening right now, what's a great way to either get quiet or pray or meditate or feel like where they can get in touch with even tuning into what are the lies or the main lie they're believing? Yeah.
Well, first of all, I found this to be hard for people. Let's be real. I don't know if you've gone to counseling, but I've been to a lot of counseling. So the reason I can know what my lie is, I've done a lot of work on it, right? So for people that don't, we wanted to make it really simple And so you can go to my website, jennieallen. Com, and you all can link it. And there's actually a little quiz, and it's pretty accurate. It's pretty unbelievable, because I think sometimes we can overthink it. We can go, I think I'm all three, and I don't know what. So that really is just a helpful tool that's free. But as far as when you're sitting there and you're just praying, I would just go back to a moment that you remember feeling scared, that you remember feeling pain, and think about what age you were, just like we both did, real naturally. I thought of 12, you thought of nine. What What was an event in your life where you felt like a really strong negative emotion? And oftentimes, that's when a lie is planted and it begins to take root.
And so if you can just go back and think of what that time was, what that age was, and then you just begin to go, Gosh, did I pick up something there in that moment that I need to question, that maybe it wasn't true? It's so funny. Now, my dad and I We talk about this, and he's heard me tell that story. And of course, he's pleading with me going, Baby, girl, I don't even remember that, first of all. And second of all, that wasn't what I meant. I was just trying to find something to talk to you about. And so it's good to go back and just question. Maybe that wasn't even real. Now, in some cases, it's a real thing. And that's where we have to begin to go, Okay, even if your dad walked out, and even if... Let's fast forward to your husband walked out, and maybe it was something that you did, right? So we can pick up lies from circumstances as well that really reinforce reverse it because it feels like, Man, that was my fault. I am a failure. And so I think we have to just find the moment and begin to ask questions about that moment and really think about where did that come from for me?
And let's say, and there's an example of I did something horrible. For the person listening is like, Well, I actually made this huge mistake. I regret it in my past. I did something in the past, and I regret it. And ever since I've done it, I consider myself a failure. I consider myself not enough. I consider myself a bad person, those things. How do you take that, where all of a sudden you have evidence that your lie is true? And how do you, and I would love to hear from you personally, Because for me, faith has been a big part of this. Absolutely. Is like, how do you go, Okay, as an imperfect human, I did that, or as an imperfect... But that is not who I am. How do you take that and Have the lie not become your identity any longer? How do you do that for you personally? How do you tell people to do it?
I love Jesus. I do. I love him. And the reason I love him is because he made a way for all this. And I've studied and thought about so many different religions, and I just keep coming back to him to what he did, because I don't have to measure up. That was the story of Jesus and the gospel, was that he would pay the penalty for the mistakes we made. And as a kid who grew up with... And I grew up in a religious home. I grew up in a Christian home. I heard the gospel. As a kid who grew up with this pressure and feeling like I could never hit the mark, when I really understood the gospel, I was about 17 years old, and I remember it hit me. I'd heard it before, but it hit me that he liked me, that God liked me, that he didn't hate me, that I didn't have to do anything else. That right where I was at 17 our old little punk, Jennie Self, who was so self-obsessed and boy-obsessed and dramatic and vain and all the things, he liked me and he loved me. And I just was like, I'll never forget that night.
I was on the ground. I was at a summer camp, but it might as well have just been me and God. I was like, I can't believe that. And I think that just changed everything for me. It changes everything for me. I mean, I do all of my books. I've read a book called Get Out of Your Head. I talk about mental health, and I want to talk about that because I believe God built our brain, and it's so helpful to know how our brains work and how we can shift our thinking because it's real and we can. And we can talk about that. And we can talk about psychology. I believe in it. I love all of that. But at the end of the day, underneath all of it, for me, it's just there's a God who built me, who loves me, and who has accepted me because of his son Jesus and what he did for me. And it just it sets me free. It helps me find a confidence that nobody can take away from me. And I know everybody listens in different places with God or believes different religions. I know everybody comes at this from a different place, but That's my story.
And it really has given me peace. When I think about mattering and being worth something, I'm like, Jesus died for me. He came for me, and he knows my name, and he loves me, and he accepts me. And when I think about feeling helpless, I'm like, And he has empowered me and given me gifts and the spirit to walk with him. And then when you think about being unlovable, it's like, Man, He loved me enough to come show up in a baby manger in the hay and all the things. I can't believe it. So I think I've never gotten over that. It just still melts me.
And so you can instantly dismantle every lie. Yeah, with that. With that.
Just that. And I have to keep coming back to it, right? Because God's quiet, the world's loud. And for me, it really had to come down to, which world am I going to live in? Because this world's really loud. And I I live for it most days in the morning when I wake up, right? And the hustle, it's true. To some degree, if I just live for this world, I do need to measure up. If I just live in this world, I I need to be liked. I need to be accepted. If I just live in this world, I need to try to control everything that I can. But if I really believe that life doesn't end at the grave, I'm not going to die And it's over. If I really believe that there's something more, all of that faith and all of that perspective seeps into who I am, and it just gives me this peace and this joy that, Hey, you know what, Jenny? It's okay that you didn't do that right. It's okay that you screwed that up.
God still loves you.
You still have the most important things. You may lose some money. You may lose some acceptance. You may We lose. And it's a grounding that's underneath these fears that we have and we live with. I walked through a season of doubt in my faith for about 18 months. Scared me to death.
Tell me about that, because a lot of people struggle with doubt when it comes to, is God real? Of course. Is all of that?
I get it.
Yeah. Yeah.
I get it. I mean, I just mentioned 17, and that's how long I've walked with God. But it wasn't long ago. It was before COVID. So it was probably eight years ago. Okay. I'm going to sleep at night, and I just start asking myself, Is this real? Is this true? I'm a preacher. I'm out there talking about Jesus.
I want to give everyone context. So Jenny Allen is probably one of the most beloved preachers, Bible teachers. I mean, in the, I would say, Christian world, especially But also just globally, everywhere, you've impacted millions and millions of people. So this is news to me. So I didn't know this. I'm in the middle of public ministry, right?
Yes. And this question of, are you sure? Are you sure? God's real. I kept asking it, and it was every night. I'd be in the middle of the night. I'd wake up in 3: 00 AM hour, and I would just spin.
It just started out of the blue?
Yeah, out of the blue. Okay. Nothing prompted it. There was no drastic suffering. I've had suffering in my life. That wasn't what caused it. Out of the blue, random thoughts, and didn't think much about it, honestly. I didn't. But it grew, and I became obsessed in the night wondering and not sure. And I never told anybody. I mean, months go by. And as thoughts do, they grow, and they begin to take hold of you, and And I began to have people notice that I couldn't watch movies about death anymore. I couldn't watch, I mean, basic movies. We're talking Spider-Man and Marvel. Nothing that scary. But I had such a strong reaction because I became so afraid of death, because I just thought, if it goes to black, I became so afraid of dying. And I remember preaching sometimes or being on a stage and talking. And in the back of my mind, I was like, Do I believe this? And I'm someone who's really real. I don't fake it. So it wasn't that I was trying to fake it. It was that I didn't understand how serious it had become. I wasn't taking it very seriously.
And so I look back at that season and I just... I I mean, you know what it did? And I'm so grateful for it now. It scared me to death, and I didn't know how to make it end. And so for anybody listening that feels like, I would love to believe in God. I just don't. I just don't. You could be watching me and thinking, She's all lit up. She really does believe that. I would love to believe that. That would feel good to believe that. I would just say, I get it. And you see in the Bible, doubters. You see people that wrestled with God. And I see so much permission for that. And so I would just say, Don't be afraid to just say, 'help me, ' like, 'help my unbelief. ' I don't know if I believe. But if you're there, I'm curious. Make yourself known to me. Just ask him. And so in that season, I couldn't get out of it. And And I remember the first time I told somebody, and it was so scary. I remember feeling like it felt so big to say out loud. I mean, Jenny Allen, Bible teacher, isn't sure she believes in God anymore.
Problem.
Slight problem.
Slight problem. But I wasn't afraid of losing... I don't want it to sound like I was trying to self-protect or something. It was so It was so much deeper than my job. It was like a fear of, what if he's just not there? What if we made this up in our mind? And so when I said it out loud, I said it to one of my friends named Anne, and she started laughing at me. And she walks pretty closely with me in life. And she started laughing, and she goes, That's not true. You do believe in God, Jenny Allen. I have washed your life. That's just not true. You believe in God. And it was like these lights came on. Like I'd been in the dark all by myself And all these lights came on like, I do believe. When I said it out loud, do you know what it felt like? It felt stupid. But I had been in my brain all by myself. And that's a terrible place to be. And so the greatest thing we can do, the first thing we can do always is say it out loud. To say out loud, I think I've been believing something, and I don't even know if it's true or false.
But I need to say it out loud because I think about it all the time. And if I don't say it out loud, I can't know if it's true. And the second she reacted that way, it was so clear to me that, honestly, I believe that whole season. I believe there's an enemy. I believe there's an enemy that hates us, that's after us, that wants to trick us, that wants us to believe lies. The Bible talks about he's a liar. And I think that was strategic for 18 months, that I would just sit there in that lie, that God is not real. God is not real. God is not real long enough for me to dismantle my whole faith. And when I said it out loud, when I named it, it even sounded ridiculous to me. But it didn't for 18 months. It didn't. And so I just think we live so isolated.
This is so good, Jenny. I just want to say this one more time because I don't want anyone to miss this right now. Because when I think about, for example, the example I gave earlier about, I need to achieve to be worthy of love. When I say that out loud, I know that sounds ridiculous. If your kids said that, you'd be like, Never.
Yeah.
Ridiculous. Ridiculous. Or when you probably heard your daughter say that, you're like, What? But yet so many of us, just like you for 18 months, we keep it inside. We think it. We don't tell someone about it, and it's just in us, and it's probably growing and magnifying. And what you just said is so, so powerful because I want everyone listening right now or watching us, whatever the lie is that you have, and maybe you're going to go to Jenny Allen's website, do the quiz to figure it out, or maybe you already know. Maybe you already know your lie. Maybe you have a few of them that you're believing. Try saying it out loud to someone you care about.
It is a first easy step.
Oh, my goodness. That's so good. You could do it today before you go to sleep again. And then see how you feel when you say it.
Okay, but here's what's going to happen. I'm going to tell you right now. I'm going to tell you because- Tell me.
Tell all of us.
This happened to me yesterday, okay? So I did this last night with a friend because I told you I had had a bad day. I was believing a lot of lies. I was even anxious about coming today and talking about all this because I'm like, this is one of my first times to be talking about the book. I was like, I'm just not ready to be out there, and I'm struggling with these things I'm going to go talk about. I just was having all these doubts and spiraling. And I texted a friend, and I said, What are you doing? She was like, Let's go. So we go to our little spot, and we sit down together, and we order. And she goes, What's wrong? And the first feeling I felt was a lot of shame. And I just want to say that because this is last night for me, right? And I just felt like, I don't want to say this out loud because it sounds embarrassing. And deep down, I'm not sure the book is good, and I don't know if it's going to help people. And I don't know if I'm measuring up.
I think we want the answer to be, It's awesome. You measure up. You're great. Go in the world, slay, kill it. That's what we want. But it's like, that only feels good for a little while because you're like, I don't know. But what does feel good is my friend looking at me going, Girl, I don't care. If your book's on New York Times this time or not, I don't care if you... I am loved and known by my friend. And if I fail miserably, and if the comments below this are, That girl is... If it's all negative and making fun of me and all this, My friend Lindsay isn't going anywhere. But she would laugh at it with me, and we would be okay. And it is the deepest in my soul. It's not to actually be great. It's not to make New York Times. The deepest longing in my soul is that somebody knows everything about me, knows what's embarrassing, knows what feels hard to say, knows that I'm afraid that I'm not going to hit a mark that everybody around me wants me to hit, knows that I lie sometimes, and And I am jealous of people, and I am mean.
I can be mean. And she knows all of that. And she looked me in the eyes and she's like, I got you, girl. I'm not going anywhere. It is the longing of her heart. And I know some people listening are thinking, I don't even have anybody to call. I don't even know who to tell. And I would just say, three in five people are lonely. Somebody is craving the same thing you are. And we're all tired of pretending, and we're all tired of playing the game, and we're all tired of just talking about our kids, and talking about our work, and talking about that, and talking about this, and going home empty. We're all tired of it. And it feels good just to go, I can't control my husband, and our marriage is hard, and I don't know what to do about it. It just feels good to be honest and say these things out loud and whatever you need to say, whatever your thing is. And I went home last night. It was so funny. My whole mood changed. And I texted her on the way home, and I just said, I love you.
And that was so fun. And it wasn't fun. We cried. We laughed a little, but it was real, and it was deep, and I felt known. So I guess I just want to encourage people that that first feeling you're going to feel, which is shame, push through it. Push through it, because that's actually the thing you want.
We need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire, because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected, more inspired, and more worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious, and so is self-belief. And I love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernleema. Com to make sure you're on the list, and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm Your Girl, subscribe at jamiekernleema.
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So many things you just said are so good, and someone needs to hear them right now. And I think it was so insightful when you said there's going to be someone that's like, well, I don't even know who to call to tell them that I don't feel I'm enough or whatever it is, right? Or I feel like I can't do anything on my own, or I'm unlovable, right? And three and five people being lonely. I think that that is so powerful to know, because I think we feel, especially when we feel lonely or we feel like we don't have a new call, we think it's just us, and we think that there's something wrong with us. And I think what's beautiful about this is I always have loved this concept of what you If you need something, give it. If you need- That's right. Right? That's the answer. If you need to be that for someone else. And it's like, if you are feeling lonely right now and you walk into a coffee shop, there is a good chance three out of five people in there feeling the exact same way. That's right. And so the odds of just...
I mean, that's when I think about making friends as an adult, and it seems so intimidating, and it seems so hard until there's moments like the last three minutes with what you just shared. There's going to people that tuned in and maybe have known you or your work or seen glimpses of your work because your work's impacted millions for a good reason because it's incredible, because people connect with it, because it changes lives. It's not an accent incident when someone has multiple best-selling books, Jenny Allen. But the fact that you're sitting here in the last few minutes saying that just yesterday, you're having all these thoughts, and you're sitting here and you're sharing things like, I sometimes am mean, and I'm sometimes jealous, and I'm sometimes all of these things. I just feel like that is so powerful and such a blessing, because there'll be people that maybe started watching this episode and see you, but maybe think that they're somehow different or that they could never stop believing their lies, or they could never write write a book and share their own stories, or they can never do those things. And at the end of the day, we all, like you said earlier, we all have these same things that we feel that we experience, even if the outside that person is this hyper successful achiever, or this person is on stages all over the world like you are or whatever.
But you're sharing those things, and I think that that's so beautiful. And I think that's one of the many reasons your work, and in particular, because we I have your brand new book right here, The Lie You Don't Know You Believe: How to Find It, Fight It, and Live Free. One of the reasons, and I've read it cover to cover. So you might have doubts yesterday. I've got no doubts. Oh, girl. My Yesterday. Let me just tell you about my yesterday. My Yesterday was like, I get to talk with Jenny Allen. I get to have her on the show and talk about the lie you don't know you believe. I was talking to Paula, my husband, about how much of my life I have lost believing lies, believing lies about who I am, how I don't have what it takes, how I'm not enough. And when we believe these lies, we sabotage stuff. We sabotage it or we stay stuck, right? And we don't go for things, or we can- It affects us. It affects us. It could... Literally, there's times in my life I feel like I doubted myself out of my own destiny because I was like, Oh, I don't have what it takes, and I believe the lie.
And so the work you're doing and also just you sharing who you fully are, I think is so powerful. And I think when it comes to faith, by the way, I think that... And I actually was going to ask you about this because there's going to be a lot of people listening who have really strong faith in their life, and maybe they have a really strong relationship with Jesus. And then there's going to be people that have different faiths. There's going to be people that are like, I've always felt judged and I wouldn't be accepted into a faith. And one of the things I think is so beautiful is you're sharing, you're sitting here as one of the most well known preachers, Bible teachers, all the things, life-changing, inspiring women to so many people. And you're saying all this stuff. You're like, And I mean some time, and I lie, and this, and yesterday, I was crying because I was worried about tomorrow. And then my daughter shared all these lies. And then I realized, Well, wait a minute. I believe those lies, too. And I just think that the... I don't even know how to call it.
I don't want to call it the courage, the anointing, the all of it combined is such a blessing because I personally know so many people who, when even the topic of faith comes up, they feel like they're disqualified from it, or they'll be judged. What do you say to the person listening right now who maybe is like, I maybe feel like I'm open to faith, but I don't know. I feel like maybe I wouldn't fit in or I'd be judged or I've made too many past mistakes, or somehow parts of me wouldn't be accepted, or any of those things.
I think I feel really tender to that. I feel sorry on behalf of a lot of Christians because we may have made you feel that way. We can be really judgmental. We can make it seem like you have to arrive somewhere to be a follower of God. You have to believe something. You have to be in this political party. You have to do this. It can just feel complicated, the word Christian, anything about it. And so I guess I would just start by just saying, I'm sorry, and that is not Jesus. Jesus is simple for him. He built you. He loves you. He knows you. Scripture says, He knows every hair on your head. That's how well God knows you. He's been coming for you. It's like this force of a love that's been coming for you your whole life. And maybe you felt at times, and maybe you've never felt it, but I promise you, for God so loved the world, that he came after us with the most costly thing with Jesus. I mean, he sent his son so that people could be saved to Earth, to show his love. I've enjoyed watching the Chosen, and you just see the character Jesus, the way it was played.
His eyes, you just start like, I just hope. I hope he loves like that. He does. It's better than that. And And he comes for us, and he loves us, and he specifically loves... The whole Bible is about all stories of jacked up people. I don't know what anybody listening that's never read the Bible would think it was about, but it's all about all these people that are murderers, that are liars, that betray each other, that betray Jesus. I mean, it's a disaster. It would be R-rated, top to bottom, most of it. It's a disaster. And it's all about God coming for us anyway. I just think somewhere we got it all wrong. We thought we had to measure up, and then God would like us or love us. And it's like, no, we never did. Did, and he loved us anyway. And so for me, specifically, who always thought she had to measure up, it's like, I always go to God, and I always think I'm a disappointment, right? I remember I was reading my college journals once, and every single entry was like, I'm so sorry, God, that I haven't prayed in a while.
I'm so sorry that I made out with that boy. It's all the huge apology. That's all I did in college was apologize. And I was like, God, he probably feels a little like I feel about my kid. He's 17 and way too busy for me. And when I get his attention, when he gets to sit in front of me, all I feel is delight. I just feel like I'm the luckiest human on Earth that Cooper Allen is looking in my eyes and telling me about his life. I am the luckiest person on Earth. That's how I feel about my kid. He's a punk. He gets in trouble. He's imperfect. I don't want him to sit down and talk to me about that. I want him to tell me about his day. I want him to tell me about the girl he thinks is cute right now. I want him to tell me. I want to be with my kid. And that's like this How much of how God feels about you, this much. And so we just get him all wrong. We just think it's a measure up thing, and it's not. It's delight. And now But in general, I think probably one of the most defining things about my life is that I really do think he likes me, and not because I've measured up.
In fact, I have done a great job bragging at everything I'm terrible at this whole podcast. But I do believe that he loves me and delights in me because he came after me. I mean, that's what the Bible says. I just really do believe it.
I was raised going to church every Sunday, and I was raised in the Lutheran Church, and I used to go, and I literally Nothing. This is a little kid, or a teenager also. I didn't even... Nothing would resonate with me at all. And I would just sit there the whole service. I would look for cute boys. I would scan all the pews for cute boys, and nothing It never resonated, but we always went every Sunday. And then when I was older and I went off to graduate school, it was the first time I lived in New York City. And I was surrounded by people in an academic world, but also just the peers I had and everything, where there was not a lot of faith of any types, but there was a lot of belief that if you believed in God, you are somehow not... Everyone I was around thought, you should only believe in what you can see and proof. And I remember I went through this season of God doubt, really starting to doubt if he existed. And I was then working in television news after graduate school, and it really started I started to feel like something was missing, like something's empty, all of that.
And I started seeing a therapist for the first time ever. And I told her, and I said, I was telling her all the things, and I was about to get married. And I said, And also, by by the way, I'm doubting God exists, and all this. Now, I don't know if this therapist has any faith. I have no idea. But she said something to me that day that changed everything. She said, Well, what makes you think God can't handle your doubt? And I'm like, What do you mean? And she's like, Well, let's just say, if he created the whole universe, what makes you think he can't handle your doubt? And she says, Why don't you tell him you're doubting he exists and ask him to prove you wrong? And I was like, Okay.
Love it.
And so that day, Jenny, so every time I would pray from that day, it didn't happen right away, but it was over time. Every time I'd pray, if I prayed for a friend who was sick or whatever was going on, I would end my prayer. Literally, I'd end my prayer by, And by the way, God, I don't believe that you're existing. And if you could please show up in my life and prove me wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'd be so grateful. In Jesus name, Amen. That would be how I ended every prayer, right?
Which- Don't you know he was smiling so big at you? He was like, I got you, girl.
And he did. And let me tell you, because I was in that space of just like, There's no way this doesn't make sense. Everyone around me thinks I'm not that smart for believing in this and that. And also, what about this? And da, da, da, da. And by the way, I have to say that in my soul, I believe that if Jesus were just standing right here, he would love every person, no matter what, no matter how they vote, no matter How they pray or any of the things, who they love, how they... I believe he would just love us. So at the time when I was going through that season of God doubt, I was also like, this doesn't make sense that you have to do certain things or be a certain way to be embraced into the worlds of faith I was seeing. So when I started praying that prayer, and I want to share this, too, in case anyone's listening right now who's in that space of God doubt, I said to him, I was like, I'm doubting you exist. And please prove me wrong, like beyond a shadow of a doubt.
And the number of times and the things that started happening, I mean, and some were quiet and some were very overt and very big. And I mean, there are stories, Jenny, where it was like something incredible happened. And for a moment, I thought like, Oh, wow, I got lucky, or this happened. And then the person would come up to me and be like, Oh, actually, God whispered me to do that for you. I'm like, What? It It just started happening over and over and over and over in my life. And now, I very rarely will feel God doubt. And there's times I do. Yeah, there's times I do. But for the person at home, I don't know. Just be honest about it, and then just say, Come into my life, show me. Prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're real, because I'm doubting you. And then just wait and watch what happens and be open open to it. Because for me, that was the big game changer.
Well, and I think we can stand back and hear a lot about Christianity. We can hear a lot about Jesus and faith and all these things and never explore it for ourselves. And I would just say, I remember when my eighth grade daughter, she started just doubting everything. And I almost started panicking as a parent, but then I was like, No, no, no. This is good. You need to process this for yourself. And so I just think, too, don't be afraid to read the Bible for yourself. Just open it. Open it to John 1, if you don't know where to go, and just start to read, because I think people are surprised when they read it and they see who God is, and It's just different than what they thought.
You know, one thing I love about technology, too, there's a lot I don't love about technology. One of the things I love about technology is now there's so many great easy ways to start reading it. And then if you don't understand it, there's great ways to understand it. And I started the Bible recap this year. And I love when you read for 12 minutes a day, and then you have the nine-minute recap by Tara Lee, or the six-minute recap, and it's just makes it really digestible. So good.
Yes, I highly recommend that, too.
I feel like the other big thing that seems to be, and I'm curious if you have this experience, and maybe you do way more than I do, because you hear from so many people on their faith journey all the time. One of the big things that I see is so many people confuse imperfect humans with God's perfect love, like someone that maybe has been hurt by a church or had a bad experience with a pastor, or maybe they were invited to some type of a church gathering and the people they met there or weren't so kind, or someone's had a bad experience, and then they somehow confused because a pastor is not God, right? Every one of us is an imperfect human, or they hear on the news that there was some scandal in a church or something like that. And I think people confuse imperfect humans with God's perfect love. And then they shut down from it and think that is Jesus, and that's not. And so what do you say when people come to you and they're like, well, this person that maybe they're a politician, and they say they're a really strong Christian, but everything they're doing, that is not what Jesus would do, or they had a bad experience in the church growing up, or they met someone who says they're a strong Christian, but they feel like an awful person, right?
What do you say to the person who says, Oh, but all that?
I feel grief. The hurt is real. It It's not easy enough just to say people are imperfect and God is perfect because that was someone that showed you God. That was somebody that had an effect on your faith, potentially And felt that betrayal and that hurt is so real. And it's so hard for our minds to separate those two things. And I would just say God understands. I just think you look David's life. And he had his son trying to kill him. He had his life falling apart. He also made a lot of really big, horrible mistakes in the Bible. The guy who wrote the Psalms, if you don't know who I'm talking about. And you read his words and his prayers, and you just see a man who wrestled with God. He questioned God. He was like, Why are you doing this? Why are these people allowed to prosper? And I'm not. And he's questioning everything, and he's bringing it all to him in a really raw way. And that helps me because I don't think it's wrong to be really angry about the way people act in the name of Jesus. I don't think it's wrong to hold people accountable for the injustices that are happening in the name of Jesus, under the church's name.
So I just I want to say, I'm sorry, and I've done it, too. Paul, I'm the worst of the... I have let people down. Certainly, there has not been moral public failure, but man, just come over on a Sunday morning when we're trying to get to church, and you'd be like, That is not Jesus. So I'm not above it. I am just I want to, on behalf of people that have caused that hurt, I just say, I'm so sorry. And I also know people. I know some of these people. I know some of the people that have publicly, their lives, have been the ones that have hurt everybody. They have betrayed people. And I have seen them behind the scenes, and I have watched some repent. And that doesn't mean they should necessarily be leading again. But I have watched them be made right with God because the blood of Jesus covers everything. And it's something that doesn't make sense to us because it's not human. It's not the way we work. But he really can make broken things right. Now, for the person that's hurt, I just give him a chance. He is grieving with you.
Believe me, he is angry, You know? And justice is part of his story and how he works as well. And so I just... I do believe That I think what I do within my own mind is I just rest that I'm not him because it's like, I don't want I don't know how to sort this all out. I don't know how it could possibly all be sorted out one day, but he promises it will be. And so I wrestle. I think you get angry. You be sad, you grieve it. And I would just say, Do it with him, because he's grieving, too. He's angry, too. He feels it, too. He's felt it, right? He was killed. He was betrayed by the people that lived with him, loved him, he gets it. That comforts me, that he has felt the things that I've had to feel.
What prayer would you say to the person who wants to pray to see if they can start a relationship with Jesus, but maybe they've never prayed before or they don't even know what to say or what to do.
This is what I do in my life. I've been on I don't know how many college campuses, and I get to pray this with students all the time. And it's so simple. And all you have to do is say, Jesus, I believe you're the son of God. I believe that you gave up your life for me and my sin. I trust you. I want to follow you, and I want to walk with you, and I want to know you. Help me do that. That's it. That's it. It's that simple. And that's the beginning. And it's a relationship. I think that's what people miss. We think it's a religion. It's a relationship.
It's not a- Explain that. There's a lot of people are like, What do you mean? I thought it's a religion. It's a relationship. Explain that more.
Yeah. He talked about there being a new covenant. And Isaiah, I believe, was the first time that was mentioned. And this new covenant would come, and that the law would no longer be written on tablets of stone. It would be written on people's heart. And there would be this new way that God could be with man, and the dividing line of sin would no longer separate them. Because we really do want a just God. We don't want a God that just tolerates everything. We want a God that actually is going to deal with stuff, right? You don't want there to be traffickers of young children that are not dealt with severely. That would not be a good God. So we actually love that he's a just God. We just don't want him to be just to me, right? We just don't want to be the one that his justice is coming against. And so the way that we are made right with him, that we do not get the wrath of God, that do not get the punishment of God is because of what Jesus did on the cross. And so when we trust that and we go, yes.
And it's hard because we all want to believe like, Oh, there's... Yes, that's true, but this is true, too, and this is true, too. This is true, too. And I would just say to that, I get that. We live in a world where that would be great, if all of that was true. But I'm not God. I don't get to decide. And so for me, the way I view this is just, it is not my job to go around and fix everybody and judge everybody, and make everything right. But I do want to know what God says, and I want to know who he is, and And what he says is, I'm the way, the truth, and the life, and nobody's going to get to the Father except for me. It feels narrow, and that could feel mean, and that could feel horrible, except that the way there is not measuring up. The way there is grace, by grace through faith. That's it. And so, yes, it is Jesus. But our means of knowing Jesus and God is not religion. It's not measuring up. It's not doing everything right. It's why I like Christianity best, because it's the only one where I don't have to measure up.
Every other religion, you have to do these things to hit hit the mark. Jesus is like, I'll do it for you. The mark has to be hit, but I'll do it for you. And so the grace that I feel because of him is that, yeah, I'll keep messing up. Yeah. Pastors I know and love are having affairs right now. Yeah. Churches are broken. Betrayal is happening. Yes. And Jesus paid the price so that we could be right with God. And And I watch these kids. They want God because they've had the whole world, and they're so empty, and they have no hope, and they are so hard on themselves. And they have... I mean, there's not anything they haven't known or tried. That's this generation. They have it all. And then they hear that Jesus loves me. He's not disappointed in me. He wants a relationship with me. They can't believe it. I have boys seven foot tall, walk up to me, tears in their eyes, hug me. I didn't know God loved me. That's What did they say. I didn't know God loved me. I'm like, Oh, man. I was like, He really does.
I think you're probably his favorite buddy. I think we all are. But I just think it changes every breathing. And we don't understand. We don't know, because that's not the way the world works. It was hard to even imagine.
I love seeing you in the back of a pickup truck on a college campus doing baptisms. Can you talk about all of that that's happening? It feels almost like you just feel it, and I'm only seeing it on Instagram. Can you talk about what's happening across college campuses and all the work that you're doing?
Yeah, it's been so fun. So So in 2018, I remember it was at Texas A&M, and I just opened up... We were in an arena, okay? This is thousands of kids. And I said something about, Why don't you just yell out? Like, whatever it is that you're struggling with. And I mean, people got real. They were yelling in an arena in front of their roommates and friends. Abortion. I just had an abortion. Sexual addiction, pornography. I mean, they're just yelling it out. And I'm going, What just happened? Like, What is going on? And since then, I don't even know how many campuses I've gotten to be on. Recently, I've gotten to be on campuses with a ministry called Unite, and we've been on about 20 campuses. And it's just been amazing. People want God, and it's not complicated for them because they aren't necessarily wounded. They just never knew. They just never knew. And they're hearing it, and it's hope to And it is a relationship that they're getting, and it feels really precious and sincere. And you know, I mean, suicide, I mean, that's in the backdrop of this. There's so many kids that are struggling with suicidal thoughts, and that hopelessness, I think, is pretty rampant in general across campuses.
And so I think what Jesus means to people right on these campuses, and specifically with that generation, is that he loves me right where I am, and I can have a relationship and be made right. And I mean, their lives are changing. You know, not all of them, but a lot of them. I mean, I'll see them a year later, and they're now, like ministering to people. They were wasted. Some of them literally come wasted. They're in the audience. They got drug there by a friend, and now they're doing this. And it could only be God. You're watching it and you're like, It could only be God. But I will say this about baptism. And some people are like, What does baptism? What does that even mean? And it's a Christian practice. It's a beautiful picture of when you come into a relationship with God, he calls us to baptize people. And it's so cool. He's so unique. I love that he likes to tell a good story. And And he wants to make something unforgettable. Because when somebody gets saved, you put them underwater. So odd. You put them underwater and you lift them up.
But all these kids, they come up and I go, Why are you doing this tonight? And they say to me, Because I want to be clean. And they're going underwater, and they come up and they feel cleaner. It's so sweet that he would do it that way. And so I always tell him, I always say, Don't forget the feeling of coming up in the cold water, washing off over you, because that is the feeling that we need sometimes, where it feels like we're dirty. It feels like yesterday. I just felt blah. I just felt sinful. I felt selfish. I felt embarrassed. I felt all these things. And when you think about that, that he makes you new, it's just beautiful. So that's happening everywhere. It's wild. Thousands and thousands of kids. Pretty fun.
I recently interviewed, the episode hasn't come out yet, but I recently interviewed Arthur Brooks, who is- He was amazing. Yeah. So Arthur Brooks teaches the top class at Harvard on happiness and his new book on the meaning of life. One of the things he talks about is that We're just in this unhappiness epidemic where people just feel empty and they feel like something's missing. And when you look at the data, especially on anyone in their 30s and under, but really it's now starting to be everyone, where people just feel like something's missing. And he goes deep into our left brain and our right brain and how everything with technology and also with a striver world and just how we're, and now AI, is just like we're not in the part of our brain that gets ignited when we are in faith or feeling love, those things. And we're no longer even tapping that part of our brain, and people are just feeling more empty than ever and feeling like they're lacking meaning. And I think that the need for people to connect in person and also to connect with their creator. I think that... And what I loved about his entire world is research-based and everything else.
And he was saying so many people are now seeking the answers to everything on AI or Google, and that we're starting to be programmed where we can just solve everything on Google or AI, but you can't because people are feeling emptier than ever, and they're feeling lonelier than ever, and they're feeling more hopeless than ever. And And you look at all the data, as you mentioned, even on suicide rates and all the things, and it's just like it's an epidemic. And so the work that you're doing and continue to do is so powerful. And going to college campuses on top of everything else you're doing. People are just feeling like something's missing. And I think that so many people who have maybe not explored the idea of meaning in their life or purpose or whatever, but they're like, My job is my purpose and whatever. But now AI is going to impact almost every industry. And I think in the next 5 to 10 years, the need to be in relationship, whether it's with Jesus or with your friend because you're having a bad day, the need for relationship.
It's everything. Yeah. We are craving connection. And I would just say this, that we have to fight this. I worked on a book called Find Your People. And oh, my gosh, that was the saddest. When I was researching that book, I was so discouraged because I thought, is it really this Are we really the loneliest generation that has ever lived on Earth? That is the saddest thing. And we are set up that way, right? So when you think of every generation before us, just about, especially prior to the industrial revolution, but honestly, before the technological revolution, Revolution. People lived in villages. They took care of each other. They depended on each other for agriculture. They depended on each other for the blacksmith in town. The community had to have each other to survive. So just by the nature, it wasn't like something they had to do or think about it. It was something they were, and it was how they lived. So we really are. It's hard. We really are in a hard time to live. And it really is the most important key to being happy, connected, peaceful, being known by God, by people.
That's it. That's the goal. But I think shame lies all of that. We pull back, And now we don't have to come out because we can just move, or we can just change jobs, or we can just... People couldn't do that. For every generation, they would never move more than five miles, 20 miles from where they were born because you couldn't do it.
And so it's just we've got to be aware that this is not the way we were built.
This is not what we were designed for, and we've got to fight it pretty hard.
When it comes to finding your people, what for the person listening is like, I want to of my people. What would you say to them?
Well, you're not alone that you feel alone for sure. That is common. What I would say is that this has to be a conviction. This has to be something that you're like, I need this. I'm going to get it. Now, all the introverts are like, I don't need it. I'm fine. I love my robe. I love Netflix. I don't need you. I want you to realize that every time you turn on a show, you are watching people have community that you're actually craving. That's why you like the show. There's not one show. Even that movie with Tom Hanks, where he's on an island by himself, and the whole movie, he's by himself, he talks to a volleyball. Even that is communal in its In a weird way. There's nothing you're really watching where somebody's alone. It is the worst form of punishment, solitary confinement. There is nothing worse than being alone. And I'm not talking about every minute of every day, but you You got to be known, and you got to be seen. And so I really pray, and I have hoped that there's a massive change in the world the way we view this, because it's going to take that.
It's going to take a revolution. It's going to take us seeing that this is the reason we're so unhappy, and choosing connection and people. I mean, we moved to a neighborhood neighborhood where the houses were really close together in a big city, and I just prayed, Lord, give me five friends in five miles. Super basic. I need five friends in these five miles. Because I knew if it was 10, we wouldn't do last minute dinner like we did last night, my friend and I. And so I pray that, and God brought it, but it was work. It was like dating, right? You have to like, I don't like this person. Okay, three dates, and I'm like, No, you. No, I don't know. And you have to give people a chance. And then, then, two years in, they want to quit you. And that's real. And you've invested all this energy and time, and then you don't want to do it again. So it is a mess. It is hard, and we've got to have it, and we've got to choose it, even though it's hard.
I have friends in five miles. That's good. That's good.
Not everybody can have that, but it's a start. And proximity does help.
Yeah. I know exactly what you're saying. I'm newer to where I live, and I knew one person moving here. And so I'm in that space. And my two best friends are one of over 30 years, one of over 15, but they live in Pennsylvania, across the country. And so I'm like, okay, so I'm making a whole lot of new friends. Right now, my kids are in school, but I'm in that process because I also believe it's so important to make sure that who you are around, that you feel good when you're around. And you can still be real and raw and cry your eyes out and do all the things, but that you feel they want the best for you. And sometimes you see things over time, right? You see like, oh, do they show up for you when it's a bad day, not just a good day. Are they real friends? Or are they deal friends? Just all of it, right? You learn over time. And so I'm in that space right now. And I know exactly what you're talking about, where then you'll have one friend where you're like, Wait, are they They're distancing themselves?
Yeah, all of it, right? All of it. And it takes work, and it takes work, but it's doable.
And we got to do it. And we got to do it. And I always say, because the number one question I get about friendship is this question, and It's heartbreaking, but it's, I always initiate, and nobody initiates back, or I reach out all the time, and nobody invites me. And I would just say, the the only way you won't be lonely is to initiate. You have to be the one. And you have to remember and believe that if five people say no, the six one might say yes, and the six one might need a friend. And it's like, you just keep going. And if you knew that three months from now and 17 noes from now, you would make the beginning of the best friend you could have for the next 10 years, would you do it? And you probably would. But you usually stop after three, maybe after one. After one, rejection after one rejection, after one... It just feels like nobody wants to be friends with me. I always say, if it really feels that way, first pay for a counselor, because maybe you need to pay a friend to find out that there's some things you need to know about yourself.
We all need to know things about ourselves. But probably it's just that you just need to keep trying, and you need to find somebody that needs you as much as you need them.
And it's just so important. And I feel like this conversation conversation is really new in the sense of it's easy for people to think, Oh, virtual friends, or social media, or soon AI is great.
Come on. Can we all just say, no, no, we are not going to be friends with robots. No, not in any real way that will fill our soul.
Exactly. It will leave you feeling empty just the way if you only rely on social media does. Or if you only rely on watching, other people communicate on television, but don't have any real connection. And I think that... Yeah, that's so good. I love you sharing that because I think a lot of people have tried once or twice. Maybe they haven't even got to three times, and they're like, Okay, I'm just not going to make friends as an adult.
And I can do without it. That's not true. That is a lie. And you need people. Fundamentally, the way you were built, your DNA, every scientist would tell you that, every Every theologian would tell you that. You were built to need people, even the introverts. We all need people.
And you've said a couple of times, and I want to bring this up, how important it is that we feel known and we feel seen. So can you share why to the person listening going, Oh, no, no, I'm an introvert. I'm good. I got my blanket. I got my real housewives, or my cat, or whatever it is. Not that I know anyone that does that. But Nor have I ever done that. No, never. Neither of us. But talk about the importance of that feeling, even for the introvert listening, that you need to be known and seen.
Yeah. My daughter's an introvert, and we're a whole house of more extroverted people. And it's hard for her just to jump in there and do it. She just assumed be cozy at home. And I watch her, and And last night, I came home and she was out with her friends, and I was like, Yes. And she's got plenty of friends. It's hard to choose. It feels good to just be in and be cozy. And I get it. I'm that way sometimes. She came home bouncing off the walls, telling me stories about all of them. And so it's like, yeah, it feels like maybe if I stayed in my room, I would be happier. It'd be easier. Sure, it would be. But there's a part of you that's just dormant in a sleep until somebody else wakes it up. There's part of you that is bored and missing life just because you're scared to go out there and live it. And so I would just say, Keep showing up. Keep doing it.
And it's like a muscle.
You just got You just got to practice it. But to the introvert that's like, I don't need it, it's just not scientifically true. Just speak to the science of it. There is nothing more damaging to your health than isolation. They have ranked alcohol, drugs. I mean, all of it. The most detrimental thing to your health, if you're just motivated out of facts, is isolation. So you need connection. You just physically need it. And I think you like it more than you think. I think most introverts I know, they want connection. They just want it in smaller doses. They want one or two deep, great conversations. And that's great. That works. It doesn't need to be a party. Find what works for you. It doesn't have to be every social event you get included to. You don't have to go join a bowling team, for goodness sakes. Just find the way you connect with one or two people, and that's enough.
When you say God creates our brain, And one of your best selling books is all about our thoughts and getting out of our head and all of those things. What would you say to someone listening about that and about the power? Yeah.
I mean, this is such good news. It's such good news for everything we're talking about today, that the way our brains were built is that we have the power to interrupt our thoughts. I didn't know that for so long, which is so funny to me because it's such a basic important thing to understand. I think all first graders should be taught this in school. You have power over your thoughts. Don't have as much power over your emotions. I mean, if you were feeling really sad today and you were crying to me, and I said, Jamie, don't be sad. That would not be very helpful. It just wouldn't. But if you are sitting there thinking the same negative thought over and over again, which most of us are, the research says that 80 % of our thoughts are negative every day. It's really a lot to take in. And 95 % of our thoughts are repetitive from the day before. So we are thinking the same lies, the same negative thoughts, the same spirals on repeat over and over and over and over and over and over for decades. It's really sad, except that we can interrupt our thoughts.
And so the pathways, many of you have heard this, the neuropathways that repetitive thoughts like that build. So these lies we've been talking about, this book came out of that book. Because when I wrote Get Out of Your Head, I just barely mentioned these three lies in there. But I realized this is different, because what get out of your head talks about is interrupting thought patterns. This is really talking about core lies that have been there for a long, long time that you don't even know are there, that you think are true. But the same principle does apply that we can build a new pathway, that That the same trenches that got built in your brain because you've thought this over and over and over again, you can build a new one. And it's pretty amazing. Actually, what happens in your mind physically, what they can see on scans, is that what is rebuilt in your brain when you think a thought is real. It's a physical thing that's happening to you. A thought causes your brain to build little buildings in little cities, and it It just builds a whole little structure in your mind.
And so thinking good thoughts and being grateful, for instance, instead of cynical, immediately. So this is what we do in our family. Let me give you an example. We'll get home from school, and somebody will say what happened to them that day, and then it will turn into the spiral of everything bad that happened, right? That's okay. We do that because I want them to be able to do that, and I want to know what happened. So we will do that. And then, what do you do? You go, Okay, sit in that, talk about it, process it. What can we do about that? I'm so sorry. We feel all the feelings. We do that. Then we say, What good happened today? What are you grateful for? It is a discipline. Again, it's a muscle. You just have to practice it. The first part, I never had to ask. That came out real easy because that is the 80 % that we're thinking about. That is what our brain does. It's easy to think about what negative. It is a discipline to think about what is positive and what we're grateful for. And so what I learned in that project was, as I wrote that book, was the power of interruption, that I have a choice, and I don't have to spiral in all of these negative loops.
And so the same is true with lies. It's I have a choice. And so yesterday, it was a big choice. My choice was sit in that, sit in that, go to sleep, wake up in the night, think about it more, or call a friend. I'm a phone a friend girl. Sometimes it's to say it out loud. Sometimes it's to write it down, to journal it, to notice it. I think the most important thing is first is whether it's a lie or negative thought to name it, because you cannot be free of something you don't name because it's just going to stay there. You're going to be stuck in And we aren't neutral people. We don't wake up in a neutral world with neutral minds, with neutral feelings, with neutral thoughts. There's a force in us, and it is either spiraling down or it is spiraling up. And that shift can be interrupted, and we can change it from going down to going up.
And the three core lies from the lie, You Don't Know, You Believe, your new book, So the book that's out now, everyone needs to grab their copy. It talks about how to find the lie, fight it, and live free. When you say that so many of our thoughts are repeated every single day, if we have core lies, imagine how many times we're thinking those every single day.
All the time. All the time. That's why we think they're true. That's why we don't know it's a lie. We don't know we're believing it, because it literally is just the way we think. It is a story we have told ourselves since the beginning of time. And to learn a new story, to believe something more beautiful is true. It's going to take work. It was funny. I dressed up today to come see you, and what I felt when I was getting dressed is I wish I could put on boxing gloves. I was like, We got to go fight. We got to be feisty here. We're going to fight these lies. I'm putting on a cute little blouse with a bow. I'm like, We need to be fight. Because it really is that mentality of you cannot just... If you're just going to stay on neutral, you're going to believe lies. You're going to have to turn. You're going to have to set it up and go, Is this true? You're going to have to think about it. You're going to have to share about it. You're going to have to wonder about it. And you're going to have to be pretty vicious and go, You know what?
I think I have been told that, and I have believed that my whole life, and it's not true. And that takes getting a little bit of feisty.
Lacing your gloves up. For the person right now who's like, Okay, the lie you don't know you believe, your brand new book, what would you say to them that they should expect when they get at home?
Yeah. Well, the first thing is just grace, that they're not alone, that this is common, that really we all have one, that something has plagued us and we don't know it. And I think sometimes we can tackle something like this and just feel overwhelmed. And there is so much power in just knowing it. One of the things I do all the time, it's what I did last night with my friend when I shared that I was struggling, is I was like, The lie I tell myself is this. And so I've gotten used to just saying it out loud. The lie that I tell myself is this. And I just start to say, That is powerful, Because in that one line, I'm inviting someone else into it, and I'm able to call it a lie. I couldn't do that for so long. And it just sat there, true in me, thinking it was true. And So I think people are going to go, Oh, within two chapters, three chapters, they're going to go, Oh, I have one. It's this. And they're going to be able to name it. And that is powerful, because now it became an enemy.
It was your friend. I think about when my daughter, who used to rescue animals all the time, where all my kids thought it was wonderful to bring little baby creatures home. And I'm like, You probably stole that from their mother. I don't know where they found these things. But we rescued turtles, we rescued We were baby rabbits. We lived on a little reserve. And so all these baby animals, we were their salvation. And we lived in a city in Austin, Texas, where PETA is a big deal, right? They love animals. And so we would often deliver these animals that we didn't know how to take care of to the animal shelter. And they would be grateful, and they would take over for us and all that. One day, she rescued some baby squirrels, and these squirrels needed to be rescued. They were on the street. They would have gotten run over. We put them in a shoe box. We tried to give it a little... I don't know. We looked it up. Drops. We kept them alive. And then we had to drive an hour out to the animal shelter to take these animals. And when we got there, these people that love animals, they are protective of all animals.
Look at us angry that we have brought these animals in because they are rats. We have brought them a box, driven an hour, kept alive, nursed, fed, cared for baby rats. And that is what we are doing. We are nursing, feeding, taking care of, making friends with, keeping, loving all these lies, and acting like we've got to protect them for some reason. And so my prayer is that we shift this and realize we are nursing and caring for things that are not serving us, that are destroying us. It's so much worse than not serving us. They're destroying us. And they're taking our callings and the things that God I've put on Earth to do. They're taking our joy and our peace. Some of you are living out your callings, but there's no peace and joy in it. You're not even enjoying it. Because in the back of your head is, I'm not doing it well enough. I can't measure up. People aren't going to like me. That's going all the time. It is possible to turn it off. And so my hope is that first they know it, they name it, that's freeing. But then two, they hate it.
And they're like, I'm not living with this anymore. I'm not going to feed this and take care of this anymore. I'm going to fight it. That's my prayer.
That is so good. And I love the tool, too, that you just added about how when you say it out loud, which you shared that when we say it out loud, automatically we go, Oh, that's ridiculous. But you say it out loud, but you call it a lie. You name it, you call it when you say it. And that's so powerful, because instead of every day, as we just learned, 80 to 95 % of your day, every day, you're thinking the same negative thoughts over and over and over and over your whole life. Instead of just then that, which then makes us believe it, we're calling it out, we're sharing it, we're hearing ourselves say it, but we're saying, I believe the lie, or I'm telling myself the lie that, and you're calling it a lie, which Which is, I think, so powerful to start believing it. Yeah, I think it's good to start with, what do you feel?
Because sometimes it's like, I don't know what lie I'm believing. What do you feel? I feel anxious because... Why? Because I feel like I need to hit some mark. Okay. Because I feel like I need to hit a mark. Just start to put language to it. But oftentimes, we'll notice a feeling before we notice a thought, before we notice a lie. So if you feel anxious, if you feel like you're spiraling, if you feel like you have doubt, if you feel like, Gosh, I keep isolating myself, those are signs and symptoms of what we're talking about. It's not the end game. There's a reason you feel those things, and probably underneath those things is that because, because I can't seem to be accepted by people. I just keep feeling rejected. Okay, that's why I feel anxious. So it's that work of And just maybe you notice a feeling, and then you know, Okay, where is that coming from? And fill in those blanks. I feel blank because blank. And that is the beginning of a great conversation. That's the beginning of a great conversation.
And a great way to get to like, Okay, what is that lie? Or more than one, but what's the core lie that's your big one that's underneath it all? Millions of people have been impacted by your work. And for someone listening right now who's like, I want more of Jenny Allen, or I want more of these lessons. Of course, they're going to grab the lie you don't know you believe. But also, can you just share a little bit with the person listening who maybe doesn't know about if, about gather, unite, all of it?
Well, everything is on my website, jennieallen. Com. You can go there and see it. But what I love to do is I love for people to experience experience connection with God and each other. And so I build lots of experiences for that. So if gathering is women around the world, they get to gather in their homes. It's not something that you have to attend. It's something that you can host wherever you are. And gather is the same way. It's really special. Gather was a dream that I can't believe is a reality now of the entire global church coming together, and seven million people participated. It was so magical. Last year, we're going to do it again next year, and it's just really special. So all of those links are on my site and all of the resources we talked about today as well. Thank you so much for just inviting me into your community. And this was so meaningful, and I'm so grateful.
And thank you so much, Jenny, and your website and everything that you do put together. That's also a great tool for someone who wants connection. Find a gathering near you. Yes.
A lot of friends have been made that way. That is for sure.
Yes. Thank you for all that you do. Thank you for the lives that you impact. Thank you for being an inspiration to me, to so many people out there. I'm excited for this book, The Lie, You Don't Know, You Believe. Just this time we lace up our boxing gloves, as you said, and we go to battle with the lies. Thank you for giving us the tools to know how do we do that. How do we do that? And also that we're not alone in the ones that we believe, because I think that is huge. Because it's I'm like, Okay, all right, I've got this. So thank you so much for being here.
Thank you, friend.
Remember, this episode is not just for you and me.
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You are worthy, you are loved, you are loved, and I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worth: How to Believe You are Enough and Transform Your Life for you. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you. In worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearnt the lies that lead to self-doubt, and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, over Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome, achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them, and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you are born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.
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If you ever find yourself thinking thoughts like “I’m not enough, I’m worthless” or “I’m helpless and can’t do it on my own” or “I’m unlovable” those are LIES….sometimes they’re even lies we don’t realize we’re believing…and when we believe them, they can sabotage all areas of our lives….from our career, to our friendships, to our romantic and family relationships, to our faith, to our joy and happiness…and today, I’m SO excited for this conversation because we’re joined by Jennie Allen, who’s here to share how to find that lie you’re believing right now, how to dismantle it and how to live free, finally!
Jennie Allen is a New York Times bestselling author, speaker, podcaster, bible teacher and the founder and visionary of IF:Gathering - a global movement that, over the past decade, has reached more than one million women in 179 countries through in-person and online gatherings and she has a brand new book out now called “The Lie You Don’t Know You Believe: How to Find It, Fight It, and Live Free.” I’m so excited for this conversation today, because I know first hand, that lies can hold us back, keep us stuck and sabotage our calling…and when we learn to stop believing them, it can transform everything in our lives! I am so excited for this conversation with you, me and Jennie Allen!
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And whether you're joining me today for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family. And remember this episode is not just for you and me. Please share it with every single person that you know because it can change their life too.
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Chapters:
0:00 Welcome to The Jamie Kern Lima Show
10:20 The Lie You Didn't Know You Believe!
13:55 The 3 Core Lies Most Of Us Believe
31:40 How Belief in God Gives You Grace
43:40 3 In 5 People Are Lonely - There's Power In Sharing Who You Truly Are!
1:01:20 How I Overcame Doubting God Exists
1:04:40 Imperfect People Does Not Equal God's Perfect Love
1:29:40 You Need Friends No Matter Your Age
1:33:30 Change Your Thoughts, Change Your Life!
It’s such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note: I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is NOT intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.
Order Jennie's new book The Lie You Don’t Know You Believe: How to Find It, Fight It, and Live Free here: https://www.jennieallen.com/lies-book
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