Transcript of USMNT vs Bosnia Round of 32 Preview | Morally Abhorrent New

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Thank you to everyone who hung on with us on the live Lebatard Show. The postgame today, a little different. We're going to do a live Morally Abhorrent. We're bringing on our good friend Tom Bogert of The Athletic, who, by the way, is doing outstanding coverage right now. And Tom, correct me if I'm wrong, is the athletic coverage for the World Cup free to all?

It is indeed free to all. I don't want to hear anything about a paywall. Every link that I've shared has been free to open. So you're welcome.

I love that in the middle of NBA free agency you're out there tweeting about Real Salt Lake acquisitions and, and trades. So good on you, Tom. But for this postgame show edition of Morally Abhorrent, I want to preview the upcoming U.S. knockout round fixture against Bosnia and Herzegovina, a tricky opponent because they're all tricky at this point. They, they play a, a stingy form of soccer. And while the US is heavily favored— I don't— we're all in uncharted territory. The US is a heavily favored side in a knockout stage. You still got to play the game, and this is an opponent that can frustrate you. So let me begin with the opponent as we preview them. Not overly athletic. The US is very sneakily, I guess, to the rest of the world, one of the more athletic sides in this tournament. Styles make fights. They may grow frustrated with how stingy Bosnia is.

Yeah.

If we want to do broad strokes and generalizations, it's going— but this Bosnia game is going to look more like the first two group stage games in terms of style. Paraguay wanted to sit in deep, hit on the counter. Australia wanted to sit in deep, hit on the counter. That's how Bosnia is going to play. I think Australia is a little bit better defensively, but Bosnia, particularly after Australia benched their two most dangerous attackers against the US for reasons that remain unclear, I think Bosnia can hurt you a little bit more in transition, but in terms of the style, it'll be the US having more of the ball and Bosnia daring the team to break them down. And the key for the group stage, beyond just how great the performances were, early goals. All 3 games, the US scored within 11 minutes. That's— that makes it a whole lot easier to go against a team that wants to defend deep because they got to change up immediately.

So the 2 sides that the US ran into that play a similar style, Australia, who's really surprised me with their speed going forward on the counter, Paraguay as world-class talent up top. They have the speed to hurt you on the counter. Is that something that Bosnia can do in this match? I feel like they're more limited there.

Yeah, it depends. So like Edin Džeko, Mike, I think you could beat him in a race. Don't go anywhere near him for a fistfight. I think that that's just generally— I would say that to anybody if they ask, but he's not exactly going to hurt you in transition. But you know who will? Esmir Barakterović, who was actually born in Wisconsin, a kid who came through the U.S. youth national team systems. But as his family fled to the United States during the war, and this kid has always felt Bosnian, there was this really, really cool photo of him wearing an Edin Džeko jersey when he was a kid. He was probably like 7 or 8 years old. Esmer Barakterović gets contacted by Bosnia and he immediately says yes. And Esmer Barakterović scored the winning penalty in the shootout to qualify for the World Cup. And I think his family put up that photo of him wearing the Džeko jersey when he was a child. And then right next to it was Džeko giving him a big hug after that game. So that kid can play. He's a baller. He's somebody who wants to embarrass you every time he touches the ball.

So much so that one of his previous coaches was like, Esmeralda, I know that you can beat somebody off the dribble almost anytime you get the ball. What I want you to do next game, the first 5 times you get the ball, you don't dribble, you pass sideways, you lull the defender because I know you can do it whenever you want. If you do it a few times, we'll double team you. We want you to do it when it's most useful. So that's the kind of kid that he is. Ali Begović, the other winger or the other wide forward that they play with, I think is their best player. He's this young kid. That scored in their last game. And those are the two danger players in transition. But this team's got a bunch of giants. I know the US are good on set pieces, but the US needs to not give away needless set pieces. And it's not just corners or free kicks. Bosnia hurts you on long throws. So I think that's going to be one of the keys of the game is limiting how many set piece opportunities that Bosnia gets, which the US did really, really well against both Paraguay and Australia.

We did see in the ramp up to the World Cup, the US let in a really bad goal to a taller player in Kai Havertz. So Bosnia has those tall players. Is that what you're worried about, or are we already in the territory where for the US to get through, they just don't need to beat themselves?

The latter, honestly. And I don't want to sound like I'm overlooking or disrespecting Bosnia. This is a fantastic story. They're in the knockout rounds on merit. This wasn't luck. Sure, the group could have been worse, but hey, man, you play who you play and they don't have to apologize for beating Qatar and drawing Canada. But the US are, I think the last I looked, like -1.510 favorites to advance. Like you said, Mike, uncharted territory. And this is no disrespect to Bosnia, but on Monday night, the Netherlands and Morocco played a round of 32 game. The Netherlands and Morocco, these are two teams that could have been semi— that could have been a semifinal, definitely should have been a quarterfinal. The US has Bosnia. It's a little bit different.

So the US had a rotational side against Turkey, even down to the goalkeeper. I'm curious your thoughts there, because Freese and Turner, we've settled on Freese being the starter, but there is a healthy debate between the two. I'm of the notion that if you fully believe in Freese, he probably should have been out there because he hasn't been super tested in this tournament, and I'm a big believer in that position being a rhythm position. Your timing can get altered if you're not playing regularly. So where are you on that decision? I anticipate Freese being out there, but do you think this is potentially a mistake?

100% Freese. I think that he should be the starting goalkeeper for this team, and, and Mike, I do agree with you that that he should have played against Türkiye. He hadn't been really tested and it's just, I don't know, that's not a position that you need to rotate, rest, load manage, or whatever you want to call it. The other side of it, maybe the human side, like Matt Turner, like if he wasn't going to play in that game, he wasn't going to play at this World Cup, which, you know, there's no participation minutes at this tournament, but you're already through. I understand the rationale, though I disagree with it. It's not really a hill I'd die on, but that team being fully rotated, I don't blame them for, I don't want to criticize them for losing. Who cares, right? And Türkiye, congratulations. You played well in the only game that didn't have any consequences, pressure, or stakes. Interesting how that happens with that group of players who, you know, we talked about all their individual talents and Hakan Çınoğlu's coming out and just crapping on whatever team they're about to play on. So that's always interesting to me that, that they play well with no pressure and they play poorly with pressure.

But I digress on that. I didn't like what I saw from Tim Weah, who is a player I rate highly. He's just in a bad run of form, particularly over the last 6 months. Gio Reyna did nothing. I, I know this for a fact because I've seen the data. Matt Turner registered a higher sprint than Gio Reyna did in the game against Turkey. The goalkeeper, the backup goalkeeper registered a higher sprint than Gio Reyna. And I think that he covered like 2 or 3 fewer kilometers than like one of the center backs. So I don't love to see that. And Zendayas didn't do much in limited minutes. Ricardo Pepi was pretty anonymous. Haji Wright didn't come in off the bench. Brendan Aronson was busy and I like what he brings to the team, but he didn't contribute really anything in the final third. Mike, if it's nil-nil in the 70th minute, if it's 1-1 going to extra time and Pochettino looks at his bench and needs to make a change, honest to goodness, I don't see a good option after that Turkey game. Like if we're just talking about form like that, there aren't really good options that separated themselves as like, I should be the first one in off the bench.

Well, what about Berhalter? He had a polarizing performance.

Yes, there were, there were, I wouldn't call it polarizing.

Yeah, there were, there were some people out there that saying that he was the worst player on the field when, you know, he, he had goal contributions there and he does have a specific skill set on set pieces that stick out. Do you think that there's a role for him? And excluding Weston or Christian Pulisic, in terms of players that featured in that game in a larger role, do you think any of them make an impact here against Bosnia?

So Seb Berhalter, he's a dog, man. I really, really like that player. He's got quality, particularly technical quality, like you're saying, Mike. He'll run around, he'll get in every challenge he possibly can. One of the little things— and I'm just going to take a shot at Gio Reyna here— but like, one of the things— and like, they're different players, so I don't want to— not everybody has to be a crazy angry dude from New Jersey like me. But the things I noticed is Gio Reyna got, it was a heavy challenge in the first half. Seb Berhalter immediately sprinted in, got in the dude's face, and then helped Gio up, like screamed at the guy, yelled at the ref, turned around, picked up Gio. It was really cool. Second half, Seb Berhalter goes up for a header, gets undercut, and I was worried that he landed on his shoulder. Like, he looks in real pain. Gio was the closest person to him, looked at him, looked at the referee, grabbed the ball, walked away. The second that Seb Berhalter got up, he just passed the ball. All that is to say, in a knockout round game, who I want on the field is Seb Berhalter, because I know that he ain't gonna be too small for the moment.

And if, if things get tense, he's not gonna back away. He's gonna ask for the ball. He's gonna try to get on it. I think Seb Berhalter comes in off the bench no matter what. But Mike, like, he's a deeper lying player, and that could free Weston McKinney or Malik Tillman to go play further forward. But I kind of excluded him from that other group because Weah could play as a winger. Zendayas is a winger. Pepi and Wright are forwards. Gil Reyna is a 10 and none of them— and Aaronson's a 10. None of them really did anything to appreciate their stock.

Do you anticipate any surprises in the starting 11 from Poach?

I don't. I think it has to be the same as Paraguay. And Pochettino has changed and chopped and done a lot of surprising things during his time as USMNT manager. So maybe I shouldn't be too confident in this, but I won't really be shocked if it's a different 11.

Well, let's talk about Paraguay. You mentioned them. That was a performance that was kind of picked apart. I think the most impressive performance that the U.S. men's national team has ever had in a, in a tournament such as this. But some of the criticisms or dilutions that were offered was, ah, it's Paraguay. They're, they're not very good. Well, they just beat Germany, who we have very recent data points against. Germany beat the U.S. That was supposed to be Germany running through a flat track against Paraguay. What do we do with that result?

It makes it a little bit more difficult because I like— again, well and truly, I think the biggest reason for the US's 4-1 win over Paraguay in the opening game was the US. Like, while Paraguay weren't the strongest and I was disappointed in kind of how they played, I'm giving more credit to the US for what they did to kind of eliminate and suffocate Paraguay than Paraguay not showing up, though. I think that that wasn't the best representation of that team. A better representation of that team is what you saw against Germany and what I expected to see against the US. So this is a team that took points off, I believe, Brazil, Argentina. Like, they were very good in South American qualifying, which is to me the hardest week-to-week or window-to-window qualification in the world. They do get a number of spots as they've well earned, but even, even to get to 6th and 7th out of the 10 there, it's a dogfight and all of those games are hard. Bolivia is widely the weakest team in that region. They rarely lose at home because they play at insane altitude. And like, so even Eric with the easy game, the minnow, there isn't any easy game.

So Paraguay is battle-tested. And even talking about the South American teams, like Ecuador is playing against Mexico at the Azteca. Mexico, I think, is a better team. But in terms of anybody left at the World Cup who's not going to be intimidated or afraid or negative effects from the altitude or the atmosphere at the Azteca, it's Ecuador. So These South American teams are really, really good. Uruguay has been the biggest disappointment to me for that reason, because I had big expectations for them and what a lot of these teams are able to do and just the lack of fight. I know that they kind of showed literal fight against Spain. I thought that that bordered more on dirty than physical. But all that is to say that South American teams are very good and they ain't easy to beat.

I'm sure you've written more words about Christian Pulisic than anyone else over these last couple of weeks. And entering that Turkey match, there was a big debate. Do you feature him? Do you not? I was of the thinking that I know this player to be fragile. I didn't want to see him in there. My heart was in my throat. And then he made an immediate impact in the attack. He looked like the best player on the pitch. Defensively, yeah, he had his moments that weren't exactly glorious, but in the attack he was bossing that game and he came away healthy. We expect him to start. What did you take away from Christian Pulisic's performance there and how has training been this week?

I thought it was very important to get him some time off the bench. It was more than I thought it was going to be. And Pochettino spoke about that after the game, was like, obviously the first objective was to win today, right? Like, but he goes, the other main objective was to get Christian 30 or 40 minutes. And they did that. And within 8 minutes, because that was the time to the hydration break, and, uh, that I was kind of recalibrating and thinking about how, like, what I just saw. I was like, all right, within 8 minutes it was very clear he's the best player on the pitch wearing a USA jersey. Probably the second best player on the pitch behind Arda Güler at that moment. And what I was most encouraged by was he didn't hesitate for a second to sprint. He didn't. He got in behind. He looked like he did in the first half against Paraguay without the, like, last final touch. Like, he looked very dangerous. Like you said, I contradict that to what Alphonso Davies looked like for Canada against South Africa. He's been clamoring to play. He's been dying to play.

He asked Jesse Marsh in the last group stage game, I know the doctor said maybe I shouldn't play, but I want to play. Let me play. And they had to say, no, no, we got to wait. And he was supposed to be fully ready to go for that Canada game. Mike, I didn't see him open up. And the best thing about Alphonso Davies is he's probably, if not literally, the fastest player at the World Cup, like should be one of them. And his explosive pace strikes fear into defenders. You have to sit off him or he's running by you. I didn't see him open up and I saw the South African defenders noticing like, oh, like he doesn't, he doesn't either have it or he doesn't trust his body. I say that all to say Christian Pulisic both had it and trusted his body. That is huge news going forward.

Is it easy to say that he's going to be the most important player in this match for the US to get to where they want to get to? Or do you think that one of, one of the understudies or less glamorous players have a huge role here and say in what happens here?

Yeah, of course there's the randomness that comes with soccer, and I know it's a little bit reductive to look at an 11v11 game and talking about one player, particularly in a sport that is more a weak link sport than a strong link sport like basketball is. But the US ain't going anywhere if Pulisic isn't good. And, you know, maybe you can get by Bosnia if he's not good. You're not getting through the round of 16 if he isn't. If this is the Christian Pulisic that we saw in the 45 minutes against Paraguay and genuinely the 32 minutes against, uh, Türkiye, for the most part, like, this team can go far. And particularly if you get past Bosnia and you see, I, uh, you know, Senegal or Belgium, either one. I think both of those teams are strong. I think Belgium's a little better., but you need to be able to have somebody that, all right, things broke down, or shoot, we need a goal, we need a moment, give the ball to 10 and let him cook.

What do you anticipate in this match against Bosnia? How does it play out? Uh, I'm of the thinking, along with, uh, Chris Felica, who joined me in the last episode, that you still gotta play these games. It's a different type of pressure. Yes, you're a host nation and that helps, but I think it's gonna be a little tough to crack Bosnia, at least initially. And then once they get one, then you open Bosnia up a little bit and the second one should come quickly thereafter.

I totally agree. Like an early goal, early performance is very crucial. I've been joking for the last 2 weeks when it seemed, or week and a half, that it seemed like Bosnia was like the likely opponent. And as that went from like 50% to 65% to like 100%, I was like, man, we're— everybody's talking about this is in the favorable draw, all that stuff. Like, dude, this has 1-1 draw, Bosnia and Pens written all over it. Like, I don't, I don't know if, if I have the stones to come on this show and actually say that without joking or being ironic. But like, I don't know, man, I could really see that outcome. But for me, like the way the US has been playing, and particularly what they showed against Paraguay and Australia, and again, just being very, very general of like, that's the style of game that we're going to see. Bosnia, I don't think are good enough to play out of the US's press because the press is very good. And then it becomes about when you get the ball back, overloads. And Weston McKinney and Malik Tillman have been so good at that, creating 3v2s on either flank and both switching up.

Which sides they go to. Weston McKinney is more often on the right side with Serginio Dest and just killing whoever's in front of them. So I think the US has enough. I think the US should win this comfortably. I say that with inflection because there is rarely comfortable knockout round games.

Yeah, noticeable inflection.

So what happened at time of recording, there's been 4 knockout round games. There have been 2 stoppage time winners and 2 games that went to penalties. So that's what I'd— that's probably more likely to be that.

Well, hopefully we have a few more preview episodes in store for you with Tom Bogert here. You got to play the games, right? I'm so a little nervy. I'm presently sitting on a ticket that's Bosnia +1.5. So I think it might be a little bit tougher, but we'll see if you can open them up. The goals can come in bunches once you get a stingy opponent like this that has to play outside of their usual game. Tom does an incredible job for the Galazzo Network with Paramount. And as we mentioned, all of his World Cup coverage in The Athletic is no longer behind a paywall here for the remainder of this tournament. So go ahead and support Tom. He's a great friend of the show, a loyal listener too. Tom, you're doing a great job out there. Keep it up. Hopefully we talk to you again very soon.

Thanks, Mike. You're looking forward to it.

All right. We'll be back with you, I think, towards the tail end of the week here. Maybe a reaction episode. No doubt. For the U.S. men's national team performance. I'll be joined by a luminary on that episode as well. So continue to support Morally Important, which is always going to be available here on the main feed of The Levitard Show. We'll try to do some more lives here on the YouTube, YouTube.com/@LevitardShow. We'll talk to you next time.