Transcript of South Beach Sessions - Sheng Wang

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This gentleman is a bit of a mystic. I believe he's got some of the secrets to life, and one of them is just slow down. Just slow the hell down. Uh, thank you for joining us. I, uh, I've enjoyed your special Purple, uh, on Netflix. Sheng Wang is, uh, somebody who's Observational comedy, if you're not familiar with it, is spot on. Thank you. A cornucopia actually is not a very good container. Thank you for being on with us, and the reason I say you're a bit of a mystic and somebody who knows a little bit about life is at least in part because of how connected you are to nature, that everything seems to be moving too fast all around us. So let's start there with your love of the outdoors and botanical gardens.

Sure. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. Grateful to be here. Yeah, I don't know. I think it's something that most of us as kids had, like an enjoyment for the outdoors, an appreciation for just being outside the house, running around outside with no supervision, riding bikes around the neighborhood, playing in the backyard, playing with my dad's tools, using shovels and different implements to just dig holes.

That time is dead.

That time is dead?

Just for everybody, like everybody's in their devices. There are no kids outdoors anymore.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, naturally they still want to get out, but we just live a very different, yeah, we have a very different situation with how we parent and how we raise our kids these days. But like, yeah, I used to just be free. I was outside running around all the time, hanging out at the bayou, catching tadpoles and frogs and turtles, and then, you know, I eventually grew up a little bit, and I think middle school, high school, you start to drift away from those kinds of things that you found entertaining before. Now you're into hanging out at the malls and the food court and trying to talk to girls and stuff like that. So we kind of drift away from that, and then you go to college and you go to work. I think I'm kind of at this point in my life coming back around to that, what I used to enjoy as a child. And it's just— it's just a feeling, you know, like you can just— you can just standing next to a giant tree, just stand next to a giant tree and look at it, you know, look at this thing, look at how big these roots are, how thick this trunk is, and how many individual leaves are shivering up there in the breeze, you know, amongst the thousands.

And that's one tree. You know, and when I feel like— when you just like hang out there next to a tree and you recognize this is a giant living thing that's intelligent and totally at peace and thriving, and there's something inside you that is also that, and there's a connection. You can bond with that, you know, you can be with that tree. You can have that tree remind you of what it is to be alive. What it means to be here and how to be.

What does it mean to be here? Not to go too deep on this, but like, if you're sitting here, we've started with the connection between a living thing. You're talking about a gratitude for life and an awe for life.

Right. I don't really know exactly what it means, but I think it's just enjoying life, enjoying this moment, being present, being here and taking none of it for granted. And I think partly it's the immensity, the infiniteness of nature, right? In terms of the styles, the colors, the technology, the stories, the ecosystems, all of that is incredibly advanced and we lose sight of that. We lose connection and then we don't value it as much as we should. 'Cause it is everything.

Well, but I gotta think though, you're not running to a whole lot of people in comedy who have this particular commonality with you, where it's a competitive field, it's crazy, there are a lot of distractions, you're looking for the validation of the laugh. I don't know how many people are going to the botanical garden because they need to connect with Earth.

Right. I mean, part of it, I think it's important to have that awareness, you know, especially for the comedy that I do. I'm trying to examine daily life situations and pluck little moments that I find interesting and worth sharing. And, um, and nature— wait, let me gather my thoughts. Where were we before?

We were just talking about the size of life.

Right. So I think—

and how it doesn't fit in the comedy world because you're, you're an unusual sort in a group of outsiders who convene and have community around the comedy. You're living life in a way that is is not botanical gardens in connection to the awe and discovery of life and the wisdom of telling people to slow down isn't valued in front of a microphone.

Maybe not, but it's definitely, I think, helpful in the creation of this material. Right? And I think another thing is I'm just getting older. You know, we're— I'm in my 40s. I've been doing stand-up comedy for 20-plus years. It's been a long dream and journey. And I'm definitely at this point in my life where like I'm aware of how limited the time is, how precious this time is and how none of it is promised. You know, we have friends that have passed away already. We have friends that are dealing with illnesses. We have parents and, you know, aunties and uncles that are— it's all in flux and constantly moving. And so I think the ability to slow down and to appreciate all the little things that are magical right now, right here. Is really crucial in our, like, in just how we live our lives and how we enjoy the time that we have left.

Tell me about the 20-plus years, the journey, the timeline, the arc. This is you coming into your own, right? Right now?

I think so. I mean, I think there's multiple moments in one's career where you feel like you're hitting a stride, you know? And I think it happened to me sort of like in— it just happened in different periods of your career. And when I was 5, 6 years into my stay in New York, that's when I first— I started hitting one of my strides there. And then I got an offer to come write for a TV show in LA. So I had to like uproot and come over here. But yeah, I feel like at this moment, I'm in a bit of a cycle in terms of like the schedule of how material is created and moved. Like I basically spent a year or two put together an hour, tour for a while, put it onto a special, release that, and retire everything, and then move on to a blank slate and try to repeat.

When you said television show, Fresh Off the Boat? Mm-hmm. That's the one that you— that's— was that what you were making the move for?

That's the— yeah, that's the one show that basically offered me the writing job for TV back in 2015. It wasn't something that I actively pursued. I always was just— wanted to be a stand-up. That was my— that's what I enjoy, that's what I like to do, and that's what I like to watch. And but this writing, you know, writing for TV is a dream for so many people. And when it was offered to me, I had to take it. And I was grateful for that experience. But after 3 years, I knew I wanted to go back to pushing my stand-up as far as I could go and at least put out one 1-hour special.

How old were you when you knew you wanted to be a comedian?

I was quite— I mean, this is not a childhood dream. This was something that kind of occurred to me in my 20s. Yeah, late teens, early 20s, college time, and then post-college trying to figure out this path.

How long were you in Taiwan before you moved to Houston?

I was born in Taiwan. My parents immigrated when I was about 2, 2 and a half, almost 3 years old. It was 1983. There was a lot of movement. There was family coming. And we were kind of just here to— we moved to Houston first to just to see, is this something we wanted to— they wanted to do? And eventually they stayed and I grew up in Houston.

And the first 20 years or 23 years, you were thinking about doing what with your life professionally?

I was very lost. I really didn't know. I had no— I'm quite indecisive as an adult and I think it was the same thing, you know, as a kid, like this idea of like choosing a major, choosing this, this making these big decisions that are going to impact your whole life seemed ridiculous to me. And I'm still pushing against that in some ways.

It is ridiculous. It's a ridiculous age to decide what you're going to do for the rest of your life when you don't know yourself yet.

Absolutely. I'm still learning about me and how I work. So, I was very lost and I was so scared. I remember in college, I told my girlfriend at the time, I was lost. I was trying to figure out, I was taking my prereqs and I was taking my going to business school. And then I had this one, like, this is a good day. And I told her, maybe I'm gonna be a filmmaker. And I just remember she being so excited for me. And then I immediately felt like the pressure of that commitment. And I backtracked immediately. I was like, ah, I don't know, maybe I won't be a filmmaker. Maybe I'll apply to this business school. And I got into the business school. This was at UC Berkeley. And it was, it's a pretty competitive program. So once I got in, I was like, I guess I'll just go. I just, I didn't really know what else to do. I just didn't, I ended up majoring in business and almost a minor in ethnic studies, but I really just enjoyed my time learning all different types of things, all the one-on-ones, right? From soc to psych to poetry to photography.

I just enjoyed learning in college. I mean, I could probably have done a better job of appreciating what that was, you know, having, all these resources, living near campus or on campus and being just amongst some of the— it's just such a beautiful campus. And it's just a good time in your life to be free and to learn so much. I mean, I definitely did my fair share of partying, probably more than, but it was a really cool time.

When you say scared though, what were you scared of?

Making the wrong choice, going down the wrong path. I was also scared of— I just didn't make— it didn't make sense to me to go to school for 20 years and then suddenly you're just going to go to work for a company or somebody else and dedicate the next 40 years of your life to this other thing. And these, these, these shareholders, or, you know, people that have no— the system. Like, it just didn't make sense. I don't want to, you know, I just— it just— it felt so I don't know. It didn't make sense to me coming out of college, and I was very lost, and I was scared to, like, jump into something that was, I guess, more creative and less stable.

Uh, that— I don't know how much that has to do with patterns and upbringing. A lot of times what comes up here— I'm Cuban, and when parents come to this country, they just want you to choose the safe paths, whatever they are— law, doctor, architect. Those are the paths. Anything else feels unsafe. Did you Did you have some of that happening in your home?

There was a little bit of that for sure. I mean, some of it is self-imposed. Some of it, they don't even have to say it. It's just the fact that I don't have any other relatives doing anything, you know, doing Hollywood things or even anything remotely creative in terms of like being on stage or, you know, I had cousins that were great artists that just drew. In my first Halloween in America, my cousin drew a He-Man mask. That was my first Halloween, which was a homemade He-Man mask. But, you know, they were smart. They were all very smart. You know, one of my cousins went to MIT, Stanford, and so they went down like the engineering route. So, as far as like what were examples for me to follow, a lot of my other cousins were doctors, my other cousins were engineers. So, I just didn't have a lot of examples to follow. I kind of, I was a good student. I remember first grade, I tried to cheat on a test. I couldn't cheat. I couldn't pull it off. I got a bad grade because I couldn't see the, I couldn't cheat properly. And I got a bad grade.

And then from that point forward, I was like, okay, I'll just do the right thing. And I'll just try harder.

I'll just be good at school.

Yeah. And I just did. And so as long as I did decent, my parents never had anything else to say about.

But were you scared intuitively because you know that you weren't built for one of these safe careers? Like, did you— did something inside of you know intuitively, I shouldn't be choosing something for the next 20 years that's gonna be a discipline that traps me?

Maybe. Maybe. You know, I did a number of like internships. I worked in the summer for like a law firm in high school. And they were pretty successful, I think. You know, it was a decent law firm and I got treated very well, but even still, none of this seemed like something that I would really want to dedicate my life to, you know? So, I think it was hard for me to like find something in the safe path that felt like compelling enough for me to want to do that outside of just, you know, getting that stability. Yeah, I think I was scared of— I just didn't— none of it was compelling enough to me.

But why would you have anything in your life that would— you'd be able to look at and say, there is a path for me to follow laughter toward money and happiness later in life? Like, you have literally no examples of this around you, right? They'd be on television maybe, but they're not— there's none of them around you, correct?

Right, right.

And in school or anywhere else. So how does comedy end up grabbing you in your 20s?

In college? In college, I saw this student group put on a show. It was called Theater Rice. It was formed— it was a newly formed student group that wanted to encourage Asian American students to get on stage in front of people and do something fun, creative, whether it's a dance, a play, a poem, a stand-up set. So, I went to go see a show and then I said, my second sophomore year, I said, "I'm going to check out this group. I want to be a part of this and see what happens." And I had no— real clear idea of what I was gonna end up doing. I saw the sketches, I saw their comedy, it seemed fun. I just wanted to be a part of the group. And then when we showed up on the first day, they were like, "What do folks feel like doing?" Someone mentioned standup comedy. On a whim, I just said that as well. And I got to try doing standup comedy. I mean, it was a horrible, it was horribly written material. It was like, you know, stolen and just copying standup comics I saw on TV at the time.

But I enjoyed being in front of the audience. I enjoyed this, the dynamic of performing in front of a crowd.

And how long do you start going before you're making anything in the way of real money? From that, from that point to, uh, give me the number of years before you're making enough money that you think, okay, I can do this for a career successfully. This is stable.

Yeah, I mean, it's a number of years. It's a number of years of just going to all the open mics. This is San Francisco, early 2000s. And so I'm just doing open mics. I'm doing my internships and my little day jobs in the daytime. And then at night I go to San Francisco and I do, you know, an open mic and I go home and then just rip. This was a set every 4 or 5 days a week. You want to be out there doing a set.

Day job's unfulfilling.

Day job is okay. You know, I was working at a photo store, so there's creative kind of things happening around me. We were selling photography equipment and supplies. I was working at a production company, low-budget cable stuff. So I'm around production and creative things. And then at night I would go and try my own, you know, I would write my material and then try it at an open mic. So it was a busy time. I filled my day with a lot of, you know, things. And basically, in addition to doing stand-up, I mean, to doing open mics, in this, during this pursuit, it's good, it's healthy for comedians to go watch the professionals. Every weekend there's a new comedian coming through town, playing the club, the local club in SF. So every Wednesday or Thursday you go and see them do their thing. And you get a sense of, this is professional comedy, this is what it looks like right now. Can you get to this level? You know? And so, it was just a matter of like, it's, if you keep trying to write a joke, at some point you'll stumble onto one good joke.

You'll find one somewhere, it'll just happen. It might be just being in conversation with your friends, something just happens. But the goal is to try to stick to that standard. And so, you try to bring every other joke, every other idea, up to this point where you can do 5 minutes of great, a great 5 minutes, and then you try to go to 10, then 15, then 20. And so, basically, you know, you have the open micers, eventually you get to a level where you can do, you can host the show at the comedy club, and then you can do, and then eventually you can be middle, the feature act, which is about 20 minutes, and then the headliner, which is about 45 to an hour. So, after maybe like, 4 or 5 years of doing the mics and watching people coming to town every week, I got a sense of like, I could at least be this good. The average of all these comedians that are working at this club, I could be at least as good as the average of all these people.

Were you considered funny before that? Like friends, classmates, family, would any of them have picked you as a comedian 20 years later? No. No, none of them.

Not the class clown. I was not a class clown. No one, no one ever said you're a funny person.

Nobody?

Nobody. I mean, maybe one-on-one. I, I, I didn't— I wasn't like super social. I'd have like one good friend in middle school, one good friend.

So most people wouldn't really know you, right?

Yeah, it would just, it would just be casual. I wouldn't open up like that to everybody, to the class normally. I'd be more timid. Um, and maybe with my best friend, you know, in childhood I could be funny or fun, um, but I definitely wasn't trying to pull attention in front of it.

Were you surprised that you liked being in front of the crowd if you weren't any kind of class clown and you weren't looking for attention and you were just trying to fit in? The first time you're on a stage and you're terrible at it. Yeah. Uh, but you enjoyed the feeling of connecting with the audience. Were you surprised by that feeling?

A little bit. A little bit. I mean, it I got little glimpses of that, you know, when you're in middle school and you go to summer camp and then you're forced to do a performance in front of your parents when they come pick you up. Those little moments where I had to be in front of the crowd, I didn't want to do it, but when I was in the moment, I kind of rose to the occasion and I just like committed to the whatever I was doing. And so I enjoyed at the time, but I was never like, I'm gonna go back. I never sought it out. I never went to go seek out these, you know, opportunities to try to be on stage, um, until after I got to college. And then, and then I realized this is an incredible thrill. Boar's Head brings to the deli the taste of deep fried turkey. One bite and flavor takes over. Perfectly seasoned and deliciously golden fried. A backyard tradition available at the deli. Presenting The Fryer's Turkey Breast, only from Boar's Head. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli or deli counter.

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Do you have any particular memory of like the first check, the first time that you registered getting money for doing it and realizing that that was something that had value?

I mean, I remember So before you even get paid, the local comedy club, they have a showcase on Sundays where the show is just local comics. So it's like maybe 10, 15 local comedians. And so that's your first step into the comedy club in terms of like getting work there. And you're not getting paid, you're just showcasing in front of, for the, for the crowd, but also for the booker. And you're doing like 4 minutes. And that, that was a very big deal to get that first shot, to get in front of the booker, to show I can at least do 4 minutes, you know. And then—

That's not money. That's not money.

There's no money.

There's very clearly— what I asked you about was money, and that's not money.

So I don't think I got paid. And so, so eventually, once you get to the showcase, you can start— after a while, you can maybe be a host for a weekend for the local— for the, for the comedian that comes by that weekend. But I think the first time I got paid was probably my first road gig. W. Kamau Bell is a comedian in the Bay, and he was a veteran, he was already a veteran at the time, and he took me on the road to Modesto to open for him for a couple of nights at the Modesto Fat Cat Bar performance space. And Jackie Kashian was the middler, I was hosting, W. Kamau Bell was the feature, I mean the headliner, and I remember it was just terrible. It was one of the worst shows I ever did. I was happy 'cause it was my first road gig ever. We drove, you know, an hour and a half out to Modesto, and we ate Denny's like 6 times that weekend. So it was like, this is the road. It felt good to be on the road, but the shows were terrible. There was like a Christmas party at the same room that the show was happening in.

So there's a party and a bunch of people drunk and laughing and talking at the same time the show is going on. And it's not a good formula for a good show.

Do you have a spot that you point to where you're like, that's the saddest I've ever been doing this? This was the, this This was the most distracting of the circumstances. Bob Saget, when I asked him this question one time, he said that there was a strip club in Alaska that he played in one time and that the strippers or the performers came out with pie tins that had actual matches on the pie tins. And then they were— I don't know whether that's true or not, but it's a great story. Do you have a place where you found yourself where you're— there is a story about you in Iowa where you ate it. Yeah. I didn't think that that was necessarily sad. That just sounded like it felt bad.

I mean, I think that, that, that Iowa experience was basically part of a phase in my career that was pretty rough as a whole. I mean, basically, there's many paths here, right? Especially now that you have social media and everything. But when I was starting out, you can kinda climb up in the local comedy scene, open mics to the club. Hosting at the club, featuring, to headlining at the club, and then ideally you can start working nationally. I couldn't quite crack the national touring circuit, and so another way you can go to make money or make a living is to break into the college circuit, right? And so they have these conferences nationally and regionally, and they're usually tough gigs because they're college students and you're oftentimes performing in a small college that gave you a little budget, but the show is not really well produced. And it's oftentimes during the lunch hour or just tough situations where it's not really a show scenario. It's daytime, there's light, there's sunlight coming in and people are eating their lunches and people are walking in and out. And I just remember, yeah, I remember doing a show in a kind of like a partial hallway, not even in an auditorium, it's just like this weird kind of space.

And this was one kid sitting there the whole time just nodding his head and he could have just left or I don't know, but the whole hour I was there, he was not having a good time, but he stayed.

Just nodding his head no, just so that you could eat all of his disappointment and frustration. It's not laughter. It's the very opposite of laughter. And you you would have preferred he just left.

Yeah. You can just go. No one's making you do this. You don't have to. If you don't like it, go study. Go do something. Go eat your lunch now. I mean, so that was like, it was good because it gave me work and there was a schedule and there was income, but it's very lonely out there because you don't, you, you, you, you're not at that career point in career where you can bring a friend to open for you. You're just making enough money to pay for rent and your, and your living expenses. And you're out there driving a rental car from little college to little college and having a bad time. Having rough sets, but learning and also eating cheese curds, you know?

Yeah, it seems like it would hurt and be awful, and yet you knew it was the right thing? Like, there wasn't a lot of doubt, or was there?

There was doubt. At that time, there was multiple phone calls to friends. To be like, "This is really hard, and I'm just really sad right now." Yeah, definitely. But you're making rent, you know? Um, but it's tough. It's tough to not do well. It's tough to be in front of crowds that don't care for your stuff. And then you're away from your home, and you're away from your friends and your comedy community.

How long is it before you find your footing?

I mean, again, I mean— In terms of what?

In terms of comedy, in terms of comfort, in terms of knowing you're good at it, in terms of having the knowledge that you're someone who can do this well.

Right. I mean, I think those years in New York really helped me get to this place mentally. And, you know, just creatively where I was like, I'm writing stuff that I find interesting and compelling and I'm, you know, and I'm making it work.— it's sometimes you have a mismatch between what you want to do or the idea that you have and then your performance and skill writing abilities, your writing abilities, right? And so I felt like at that time in New York around 2013 to 2015, I was hitting a stride.

Are you enjoying it?

Yeah. Yeah. It was a beautiful time. I mean, New York City is one of the best places to do stand-up. You're— I'm walking, I'm biking, I'm hitting clubs and bars, and I'm doing between 2 to 5 shows a night, and I'm having a great time, and I'm making a little bit of— you know, I can make rent staying in town without even touring. So, that was one of the moments where I felt like it's working out.

Did you feel like you had made it at that point? Like, did that seem like, "I'm no longer lost"?

Yeah, I mean, I think there's multiple points in your career where you feel like you made it, right? 'Cause you always set goals that keep moving. As you get there, right? Your first goal is to get 5 hot minutes. Check that. You know, now get 10, now get 15, now be a host, make host money, make— I don't know how much— maybe I think you make like a couple hundred dollars a weekend hosting. Then do that as a feature, you know? So there's all— you all— and then, and then try to get a set on TV or late night or so. I mean, nowadays I don't know if that even is that big of a deal anymore, but You just keep having these little goals that, well, what's next? And then, then you strike, you know, you, you cross that notch and then you, you move on to the next one. Eventually you want to pay rent with just stand-up comedy, you know. Eventually you want to pay rent and also try to help other people, you know. Um, just basically my goal was to get to a point where I felt like creatively, like, I'm doing what I want.

Um, and financially, I just, I don't care to be like I don't— I'm not a materialistic person. I just want to not ever have to worry about it, you know? And I want to be able to help, like, family and friends and family that need, you know, help. And that— I felt like, yeah, I've gotten there now.

When you talk to other comedians, you know your path is unusual, right? That so many of them wanted this with a great desperation before they got to their mid-20s, and many of them had some sort of pop culture savvy that that you didn't evidently have because you weren't watching any of the things that comedians were watching, right? What was going on in your childhood that you weren't getting the cotton candy nutrients that are required for pop culture observational type of comedy?

What was I doing?

Yes.

I was just outside. I was hanging out. I was riding my bike, making little ramps, jumping off of them. I was watching some PBS. I like nature stuff. I like watching animal, you know, animal docs and nature docs like that. Yeah.

Other comedians tell you this is not— that your pursuit of the laughs came pretty late, according— like, my experience with your world is not, I didn't know what I was doing, and then at 20, you know, mid-20s, I decided that's when I'm going to get on the grind.

Right, right. A lot of people started much earlier, or they had like inspirations. They watched Carson or they watched Letterman. And so that's, yeah, more traditionally a lot of people have that experience. I just didn't. Yeah, for me it all came much later. And I think it's good. I think it worked out the way it did. I think sometimes people who start comedy a little too young can be a little detrimental to their growth. I think sometimes people like when they're too young, they start doing comedy, they do an impression of what they think comedians are, and they do impression of a comedian that they've seen, and then they get stuck in that. And it's, you know, and then so it's a little weird, like it's cute to see the young person do comedy, but then after a while you see them like not being able to grow into themselves. And every comedian starts out with a, you know, a comedy that they like, a comedian that they admire, a comedian that they are inspired by, are motivated, and, you know, motivated to like mimic. And try to be like. But eventually, the hope is you find your own voice, you find— you discover who you are, and you start to understand who you really are, and you try to bring that into your comedy, and hopefully you bloom into your own.

Did you realize at a certain point that you had arrived at knowing what your voice should be? Like, is there a year, a time period?

I mean, I think I'm still getting there. I'm still finding what that is. I think it's still changing as I grow. You know, as a person. Yeah, I think the first special is different from the second special just in terms of my— some of my writing, but also in my performance and my movements on stage.

Can you watch it? Can you watch the first one?

I can. It's hard for me to watch and listen to myself. It's hard for comics to do that, but it's very crucial as a comedian if you want to continue to grow You have to at least record the audio of every set. I mean, for me, the way I pursue this, I record every set and I listen to it. And that's how you get better. You mark the points mentally or you write it down. This area is not good. This area needs to be— there needs to be a bigger laugh here, you know? And so you just, you work on that. But you have to record it. Shoot, I'm lost. What were we talking about?

We were just, I asked you if you can watch it, if you can watch your first special.

So it's— So I've gotten used to listening to myself. I think that's still hard for comedians to do that, but I think it's so important for your growth is to listen to, review your sets. But as comedians, we're in the medium of the ephemeral, of right here now and right here. And so like we're used to things not lasting, right? It's just in the moment. And so it is hard for us to watch ourselves being recorded or having, you know, a documentation of what we did. It's very hard. So I have Avoid watching myself. It's hard, you know, after you shoot the special, you have to edit the special and that's many iterations of watching this hour over and over. And that stuff is really, really challenging for me. But in preparation for the second one, I went back and watched some of the first one and I was like, this is good. This is still good. It's not hard for me to watch and I can sort of almost enjoy some of these jokes I don't remember anymore, you know? Yeah. Going back to watch the first special, I was still happy with what we did there.

So yeah, I don't know. I, yeah, I can watch myself here and there sometimes.

Yes, you diluted that in many different ways. They had a lot of shadowy doubt in it, but you expressed well the idea that it's useful so that you can constructively criticize yourself and then grow. If I ask you what one personality trait about you is the one most valuable to it is that you do that makes you special. What would you say that is?

I think it's just being sensitive and empathetic, you know, being sensitive, being— and yeah, being sensitive to your environment, to yourself, to your own feelings, to other people, to your relationship to yourself and others. I mean, being sensitive, being present, paying attention, that's really it.

Is sensitive usually in male circles a pejorative?

Probably, probably.

I'm an empath and I can be sensitive, but generally speaking in Latino culture, sensitive is not a good thing to be.

Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, I mean, we just have to get past that, you know? It's a power. It's a strength. Being sensitive is a feature. It's a strength to have, you know? So yeah, I think it's a good thing.

For those unfamiliar with your work, can you expound on what it is that you're saying and why it is that you're saying it, that your empathy? It's an unusual answer. I don't know that a lot of comics I would go to would say that that's the first. I don't know. That off the top of my head there are any that I would go to that would choose that as their most unique valuable trait as a comedian.

Huh. And so the question is what?

I think it's unusual, but how does it help you? How does sensitivity, how does your empathy— you're citing it as the single reason most obvious to you for your success, and I'm saying how? How does it help you?

Right. I mean, I think it's just being engaged with life. You know, when you're being empathetic, you're considering, you're putting yourself in other people's shoes. You're just considering life as a whole, you know, and each individual in it, including animals and plants. I think it's just a, by being empathetic, you really do value life. Um, and you wanna enjoy it and you want other people to enjoy it as well. Um, and I think that's kind of what I'm doing. I mean, a lot of my stand-up, I think I'm just collecting little moments that I think are funny or interesting and I'm just sharing them. You know, that's it.

Well, your whole thing, when I say you're a mystic, uh, it— you, you really do give off— life's funny, huh? Because it is.

It is.

And it is. And I'm sure you're amused 100 times a day that— I don't think the act writes itself, but observationally, if you're totally connected to the present moment, it might.

Mm-hmm. There's, yeah, there's tons of things happening all the time, you know? I like the idea of sonder, you know that word, sonder?

Yes. Mm-hmm.

That is an incredibly powerful idea to me, you know, and I engage in that, like, that idea of like, you know, looking at somebody, looking at a random stranger on the street, seeing all these people and knowing that each individual one has a whole universe inside and, you know, around them that is that, that's that one life, you know, and they have their own dreams and their own regrets and their own love and all that, that everything that you have that makes you feel full and rich, each individual person has that as well. And so I just think that's just a— it's just a very powerful way to like move through life, you know, and to just to be aware of all of this and to value all of it and try to be kind and try to make a Good for you and everybody else.

To be awed that everyone is their individual universe and to be amazed by that is one thing, but the way that you're speaking about things in today's cutting acid-soaked society, some of that stuff gets burned under raging fire, sensitivity and empathy, because things are moving way too fast for that right now.

Right.

Like everything's nuts. So are you able to find serenity somewhere in there because you're seizing on on the gratitude even as the fire fills the sky?

I think so. I think you gotta, you have to. I mean, you could get lost in the fire. The fire is very big and it's close and it's easy to get lost and I'll get lost there too. I'll get, you know, very upset or very depressed by like just how some of the, how things are going, you know? But there is, I think there is some hope. I think there's still so much beauty. I think that's why I like gardens, and that's why I like being an uncle and hanging out with nieces and nephews and goddaughters and just being around joyful kids.

I'm having trouble though summoning sort of angry Shang. Like, the visual, I want to know what an enraged you looks like. Like, what summons that?

I mean, I guess I'm not, I don't really like, I don't really engage with rage. It doesn't usually go to a good place for me. You know, it doesn't really work.

I'm going to need you to calm down.

You're really coming off strong here and I need you to back off a little bit. I think I get disappointed more and sad, you know. And for me, it's just, there's just so much, right, between corporate, corporate oligarchy, you know, just how things are going in this country, how much people don't have, how we were in the '60s, we were talking about eradicating poverty. And we're so far from that right And that's just one country, that's just us, you know? And then in the bigger picture, there's just our relationship to nature. And again, that disconnect and that inability to value what is truly worth something.

Well, the reason that I bring up, right, the idea of your serenity amid what we're doing with oil and the very clear destruction of a planet, that if you're sensitive, you're feeling even more just the general disrespect to rainforests and animals. Just that, that humans before they will destroy themselves will destroy everything else, I would imagine would, somebody socially conscious, could make them engage with rage.

It's upsetting. Yeah. I mean, I feel it. I feel it a lot. But I don't know. I can't channel that to somewhere.

I'm not advising it. Your way is the best.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Good for you that you can't even find it. Good for you that it's not repressed that you can't even locate it.

I mean, it'll just come out every now and then, but it's not a productive emotion for me.

Which ones are? Which ones are the productive emotions for you?

I think gratitude. I think just recounting what is worthy, meaningful, and beautiful. I think that's what does it for me.

I believe I could say, and this is something that Didn't happen until I started grieving, uh, that, uh, that gratitude and joy, they're very close to synonyms. Like when you talk about— because gratitude is a feeling, but I'm incapable of sort of getting to something that feels joyous to me. I don't do enthusiasm well unless there's gratitude there. It's almost an ingredient that is necessary for me. It's about— in fact, I would say that since my brother's death, I would say that gratitude is an answered prayer, almost like having gone through just whatever is the upheaval of having your whole life perspective changed so that because you realize that something you had never considered, a younger brother, the mortality of a younger brother, and now he's gone, it just, it just sort of shook me into Yeah, just a totally altered life perspective where I can't get to joy if there's not gratitude around what it is that I'm doing. But you, you came by that. Do you have an idea of when you came by that? Because your childhood had sadness, had loss in it. So where do you arrive at the serenity of, no, gratitude is the way?

I mean, I think that's kind of in the ether. The idea of gratitude. I mean, Oprah and between Oprah and, uh, um, who is that? The Power of Now?

Oh, Eckhart Tolle.

Eckhart Tolle. Um, you know, I, I, I, I subscribe to that. I listen to those podcasts. Um, you know, I'm really into wellness and, and, and just trying to maintain mentally. Um, but yeah, I think I think it goes with the sensitivity thing and just paying attention. You know, there is just so much that is so incredible if we just pay attention, if we just notice it enough to appreciate it.

You're awed daily, yes? You're awed daily?

Yeah.

You can be awed by a bird landing on a wire near you?

A tall tree. A beautiful flower, your love, a love, a friend, laughter, you know, like it's all, it's all worth something.

Ali Wong makes fun of you for this, yes?

Probably. Probably. Yeah. When we go hiking, she's usually, the joke is she's like, 50 feet away, you know, and I'm 50 feet on the other— she's ahead and I'm way back there. I'm like talking to a tree, you know. She's strutting, hiking. I'm back there just trying to engage with all the quiet ferns and the moss.

The moss.

Yeah, the begonias.

Shang's back there again talking to the the moss. Yeah, we got things to do.

Petting the moss.

We got places to be, and then I've lost Chang again. He's talking to the moss. Yeah, yeah. Do the people who love you most understand this about you? Like, do they understand and appreciate this about you? Because I suspect that in the areas of love, understanding and acceptance have to be some of the ingredients.

I think so. I think I try to put it out there. Some of it's creeping into my stand-up. I try to include it in my You know, social media, when I have to promote stuff, I also try to like include just daily little snippets of beauty that I find, usually in plants or lighting or something interesting visually.

How's it sneaking into your stand-up?

I'm talking about stuff. I'm talking about going to a botanical garden. I'm talking about fruits and vegetables. Yeah, I'm just engaging with nature more. I have done shows in the past where the whole show was based on plants and pictures of plants. It's been a while, but I might want to engage with that project at some point. So yeah, it's my regular life, but it's definitely creeping into the stand-up.

How does that one go over? Shows where you are doing nothing but plants and people didn't— but did people come in thinking that that's what they were going to get?

I would tell them this is a plant-based slideshow. It's comedy, but it's a plant-based slideshow featuring pictures of photos of plants that I took. And I'm just talking about this image, why I took this photo, what kind of imaginary conversations could be happening within these plants here, or what's the thought of this plant here? Just kind of anthropomorphizing. I don't know if that's a healthy way to approach science and science communication, but it's a fun way to engage with plants, to tie comedy and plants together. And it's a fun time. Every image has a few jokes, so it's all fun and laughter. And then afterwards, people just walk away from this show with a little bit heightened awareness of the plants that are in their lives. And when they walk around, they see this.

What a lovely thing for you to have as a relationship with your art, to have something feel that fulfilling because it's purposeful. It's not just the emptiness of, "Yeah, I made you laugh because whatever." Right.

I mean, I think that's— I don't think I intentionally do— I don't set out to do these things when I sit down, when I'm writing my hour. My hour is just like notes of things that I kind of put together. But I think in the end, there's the whole— the thing as a whole I'm trying to give— I think I'm trying to give people an opportunity to pause at these little moments in their lives, right? When they're— when they're eating berries with their kids, when they're picking a new toothbrush, when they're sleeping on a lumpy mattress. These are all things that we all have experienced, but through the The special, the Conan special, I'm putting these things in a slightly different light, a different context or different angle, and I'm making it humorous. And I'm hoping that when people go through these things in their daily lives, they can, like, have a quick moment that connects back to the special and the funny and the joy we had with this, and so that they can have that again and be a little bit more conscious right then and there.

It is adorable. And you start your special talking about, uh, blueberries and your appreciation for blueberries, and you realize that all of America is moving so fast that everyone's leaning on the car horn and telling you to get the fuck out of the road. Like, that you're telling people to slow down and there's like, there's no time for that, there's no time, there's no time for your serenity, serenity peaceful guy. Like, uh, I don't want to slow down. It just, it, it really does seem like what's happening outside of that theater as you're watching the plant and enjoying the the butterfly is that everything outside of the theater is burning.

Yeah, but why? You know, I mean, our lives, I thought things were going to get better. I thought things were going to get easier, greener, more sustainable, more justice, just better. You know? And I'm trying to, I don't know, enjoy what we can. You know, do what we can to make things better, but also like, yeah, enjoy those things in our lives that we often take for granted.

What kind of opportunities are coming your way now with the success of the specials? What are some of the things that are making all of this feel not only to be the choice that was made wisely a long time ago, but something that allows you to even dream a little bit about what's next?

I don't have huge big dreams beyond what I'm doing now. I wanted to just help out people that I can, you know, help folks as much as I can, whether it's paying for helping, paying for like college tuition for my friends or my nieces and nephews, or, you know, just helping people with their creative projects. But I mean, I think, you know, based on our conversation so far, I do have like, I think eventually I might want to, you know, engage with that plant slideshow again or do something that's even more further into science communication and sustainability and plants and native plants. And I don't know, I don't know exactly what but moving in that direction and then somehow and somewhere in the future connecting that a little bit more.

It hasn't been done by anybody. Like the thing— you understand that, right? What you're talking about there, which is the degree of difficulty of I'm gonna make plants— I love plants and you're gonna love plants too when I'm finished with how it is I make you laugh about the relationship of these living things that I really do not feel that most people wandering the earth consider trees, you know it abstractly as a living thing, but you don't treat it with the respect of a living thing.

Yes.

Like, you do realize that all over the world people are not respecting this thing the way you respect it.

There's— not everybody, there's some of us, you know. I mean, I'm just learning. There's plenty of professional botanists and real scientists that could speak more to this, but yeah, I mean, I'm understanding that there is there's a disconnect in our society, in our world. And I think, I guess, in terms of a bigger dream in the future, I would like to do something fun and funny that bridges that gap a little bit more and connects us and humans to the natural world, which we are part of, but we seem to forget that and cut ourselves off from that. And we don't understand without the natural world, we will not be here, you know. So yeah, I think that area, something within that in the future?

I'm just explaining to you, having interviewed a great many comedians, that none of them have said that their dreams after arriving at great success, "I want to do a special about plants." Like, it's not— it's not— it's the first time I've gotten that answer. And you can feel secure in the knowledge there's no one else working in comedy anywhere else that is dreaming that particular dream. That the lane is— because what you're articulating there is It's like maybe my next step creatively, when I've arrived at knowing the most I know about myself, is to do something that I really care about about something that I really care about that perhaps others don't care about. Now your art becomes something that is nourishing, teaches people, and advances one of your causes.

I think so. I'm not the only one. Zach Galifianakis recently put out, or is putting out a new special, or a new series.

No, he has put it out.

You're right.

It's about him gardening. You are correct. You are not the only one. Zach, it's now been taken.

Yeah.

And now you're late to the party. And you're a thief, just like you were when you were young and trying to figure out stand-up comedy and you were just doing stolen jokes. You've taken Zach's thing is what it appears like.

Yeah. Oh, I gotta figure out a new thing now. Maybe the oceans.

Uh, do you fit in the comedy world? That's another one you can save when you're at it. Maybe after you save the plants, you can save the oceans.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Uh, do you find that it's a very small world? It's a very competitive world. There are a lot of vanities in it. And I think I can say a good amount of unhappiness, although not while performing. Do you fit in the comedy world?

I think so. I do feel like I have a lot of just regular friends. I did a little release party for the last special for Purple, and it was mostly civilians. It wasn't a lot of industry there. A few comedy friends, mostly comedy friends that started with me in San Francisco. So I try I mean, not every comedian, a lot of comedians are just in the comedy world solely. They've kind of, maybe a couple of hometown, like high school friends, but they usually are just kind of immersed in comedy. I like to have both. I like to have, you know, my regular friends that I came up with, or just are in different aspects or different, you know, industries. But I also do feel like in some ways I'm not like in— I'm not too deep in the comedy community also. I am sort of, I think I'm kind of in the peripheral.

Talking to the moss.

Yeah, I'm out there talking to the moss. Yeah, I don't know.

What I have found, these are all generalizations, but what I have found is in most occupations where people are ambitious or driven, their friendships end up being shortcutted with people who have a great many commonalities of those interests. So you don't have to learn what someone else is interested in, you're both interested in the same thing, it's comedy. And that therefore a lot of comedians become friends with comedians because they care about only that thing. How do I make people laugh? How do I get better at this? What do I need to do to get ahead in this? And it's not moss and plants and, and a great many other interests. And furthermore, they get rewarded for being that way because the more you care about getting the joke right, the better the joke will become.

Yes, probably. Yes. But it helps to take a walk. Some of the best comedians, the best writers love taking walks. You know, they understand that that's creatively, that's very helpful. And so when you're out there, look at a plant. You're walking, you know, just, I mean, I don't think we're that far far from it.

Take a walk, look at a plant. I told you, the man, the man's wise. Like, there's, there's very good wisdom in that. The special's great. Purple, it's on Netflix. Anything you want the people to know about that? And also, shangwang.com is where you can go if you want tour dates and information.

Yeah, I'm not going to be touring for a while. It's going to be— I gotta write a new special. Um, but Shang Wang Time, shangwangtime.com is where I will eventually be posting all the schedules. Um, it's also my Instagram handle, @shangwangtime. Purple is the special on Netflix now. Sweet and Juicy was the first one. They're both pretty family-friendly. It's not like— I'm not a child performer or a children's entertainer, but if your kid's in the teenage years, it's probably safe depending on your mode of parenting and what kind of teenager you have.

Stop with the diluters. It's family-friendly. It's pretty close to PG-13. It's not dangerous.

Yeah, so you can You know, I didn't know this about myself, but I have since found that I'm really touched when people tell me their mom introduced them to me, or they watched it with their kid, or, you know, the— I am so touched when I hear about this, when I see this at the shows, when people come out as a family. For me, I just am so grateful that I get to provide them an opportunity to spend time together. Where they both enjoy it. You know, as an uncle or as a parent, like, you, you, you start to hoard— you, you, you grab on the little things that you can enjoy with these other people, and it's not— it's oftentimes not, not many things. And especially if they're both— if they're things that both parties can enjoy equally. So I don't know, I'm really grateful when, when, when people come and they have intergenerational, like, quality time together.

I want to punch you in the larynx. You're so sweet. You're so— just like, I want to end this by just like hitting you until you crumble onto the ground because you're just so syrupy sweet.

Let's do the slap box.

Oh really? Yes. Yeah. You think?

One slap each.

Yes. I think people would enjoy a really shocking ending of you just slapping me until I go unconscious. Purple on Netflix. Thank you for the time.

Thank you.

Thank you for sharing. Thank you for the work.

Work. Appreciate you. Thank you so much.