Transcript of ASMR With Greg Cote | Hour 1

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I appreciate Mike Ryan's rhetorical trickery hitting me again and again in the face with the name Eli Drinkwitz, which really does underestimate what's happened at Missouri, because I think going 11-3 and 10-2 at Missouri is— and getting to the top of the SEC is harder to do than what's been done at Miami by others and has never been done by Eli Drinkwitz at Missouri. But I do appreciate what it is that you did with that. The thing I wanted to ask you guys is when it comes to the Marlins and Jeff Konine in the stands watching his son Griffin hit home runs for the team, what else like like that has South Florida ever had? Something quite like that, where you've got somebody whose nickname is Mr. Marlin, who's in the stands watching his son hit home runs for the same team that he played for throughout the history of South Florida sports. What are some examples that you can give me of anything that feels that kind of heartwarming?

I think the best example we're about to see with Tim Hardaway in the stands watching Tim Jr. I think that's about to happen, and I would put that on a par because Tim Hardaway is to that club what Jeff Conan was, if not more. Um, when I think way back, I recall— and this didn't get a lot of attention— but Brian Griese was the Dolphins quarterback for a minute, and Bob Griese's a Hall of Famer. So those examples come immediately to mind.

Uh, Greg Cody writing exclusively that his son has been let go at ESPN.

Yeah. Wouldn't have thought of that one, but, uh, it's not a bad one.

Got you a lot of clicks.

It did, yeah. He ought to be fired more often. No, I take that back.

I mean, got close with that LeBron report.

Amin has arrived. Amin, how do you feel about your contention now that the earliest flight is not the best flight when I thought statistically, mathematically, empirically, that absolutely the earliest flight every day is the least likely to be delayed.

Okay, so we talked about this last week, and apparently a lot of people are incapable of understanding the nuance of, yeah, even the worst thing has some good points about it. So yes, the early morning flight does not typically get delayed because it's the first flight out. You don't have to deal with the ripple effects of all the other delays. Having said that, No one heard what my complaint was, which is early morning flight, bring out the rookies. All the people like, "I gotta get there first thing!" That's what happened. I flew this morning, 5:30 AM, to come here down from New York, and guess what I found? I found a zoo of rookies, families, and old people, and people who have not traveled since 9/11 happened. So like, "What do you mean I have to tuck my thing?" I'm like, "Come on, people!" My flight, my specific flight, Dan, 15 wheelchairs, 15, one five. I ask you this, you think any of those people would have taken a red-eye flight? Hell no.

It's been 25 years, I think it's time.

Greg, you just said moments ago something that I've heard you say most of the time that I've known you, "I'm just a small private individual." Right. Is that on your catchphrase list? 'Cause I have not heard it yet in your 50, and I think it's an omission because I'm guessing it's probably not in your top 15 either. And I've heard you use that for a long, long time. Is it another one that you have forgotten? Just admit yes or no. Just give me some honesty. Is this or is this not on your list? Yes or no?

I don't think so.

Did you forget it? Yes or no?

It has been mentioned. I think it just didn't make the cut.

That's the second one today that we've discovered that he's overlooked.

Chris, he's lying to me.

That's a skeptical Dan Levitan post. I can see it.

Chris, that's a lie. Yeah, the Little League theory is better than that.

You—

yeah, like, no, there are, there are 50 on that list not as good as I'm just a small private individual. Like, you forgot it. I need you to admit it.

I did not forget it. It was considered. It was brought before the board. It was, and it did not quite make the top.

I don't remember seeing that one. There are a lot that have made, like, that we've thought of and that got the— that are on the cutting room floor, but I don't remember that one, to Dan's point.

Are you ready to update the, uh, the list of catchphrases? Because it doesn't— you are ready?

Yeah. And by the way, I will defend at all cost the Little League Theory. Okay, don't besmirch the Little League Theory.

All right, I'm gonna write down right now, when you give this list, I'm gonna write down all the ones that I believe to be worse than "I'm just a small private individual." You can't write that fast. Let's go. Let's test me. Let's go ahead and test me.

All right.

Tessie today, Dan.

He really is very commanding.

Nothing's good enough for you, Dan.

Let's test it. Well, he's just lying. He's just lying. I'm not lying. And sardines don't belong in the conversation that we were having about ground beef being traded.

Hey, it's versatile. You don't get Caesar salad without it.

No, I've eaten sardines my whole life. I love the little key they have to roll back the metal can. I used to buy sardines just because of the can.

I'm on, strangely, that algorithm where I see old sardine cans being opened.

Yeah, isn't it great?

It is.

It is great.

It is great, can't it?

It can be great.

There's something soothing about it, right?

Yeah, the one thing I don't like about that though is the sound.

I like the whole experience.

That sound of metal breaking from metal.

Honestly, the sound boosts your argument here because sardines are an entire experience where filet mignon may not be.

Yeah, no, that's very true. What's the word for, Uh, getting off on the sound of food. ASWM or something? Or—

Oh, ASMR.

Getting off on the sound of food?

No, ASWM, or what's it called?

ASMR.

ASMR.

Listening to people eat.

Yeah, right, right. I'm into that.

Getting off on it?

No, no, no, it's a whole thing.

We used to say that.

Many people come up to me and say, like, that thing that you did with Sam Vangundy, I jerked off to it.

I'm a sucker for listening to people eat, but I've never gotten off to it.

I mean, all right, so much to cover here. So it's not getting off to the sound of food. I don't even know what the sound of food is.

Oh no, there are people that do.

They do.

Okay, it's a thing.

Yeah, that's what I was going for.

It's the lip smacking though, Tom.

No, there's a whole like seedy underbelly of ASMR, which is just people cranking it.

It's strange noises, it's not the sound of food. I still don't know what the sound of food is. What's the sound of food?

It's the mouth.

It's the sexual fetish no one talks about.

What is the sound of food? Describe to me the sound of food. Is that what you're describing? The sound of chewing? The sound of—

Oh, there's crunch, and also it's, "Mmm, that's good." My dick just jumped.

I saw it.

In Dan's defense, I've never heard a banana make a noise on its own, though.

The sound of food.

When you peel it, there's a sound.

A little bit.

Like peeling.

A little—

It's a what?

Yeah, there's like a perforation.

I've never heard that.

But in microphone, you can hear it.

All right, I'm gonna go get a banana.

Put it on the poll at Levitard Show: is there something soothing about opening a can of sardines? Big dog is perfect.

It's good.

Also, uh, Greg Cody just said to you guys, as if he was teaching you something— Greg Cody just said that people used to say that, the term "get off." That's what he was just explaining to you guys, that you didn't understand the term "get off," that it used to be said. But Greg Cody was very delighted the other day because of a South Beach session with Phil Hendrie in which he said that he was moved by the fact that Phil Hendrie used a phrase that Greg is insistent about bringing back into the lexicon, that he doesn't believe that this phrase gets enough rejuvenation in modern times. It was very popular, just like the phrase groovy was in the '60s and '70s, and Greg Cody You want to explain to people why it is you were moved by the recent South Beach session with Phil Hendrie in which he said— what did he say?

It's my number 14 ranked catchphrase, and the phrase is "right on." And Phil Hendrie blessed me, gifted me by saying that not once but twice.

Well, let's hear just one of those, please, because two is too many, but one return to the South Beach session with Phil Hendrie is enough. A very simple place is sharing a laugh.

Right on. There it is.

And that's the way to say it. You say it quickly and you move on. Right on. You don't elaborate. You don't need to dress it up in bells and whistles. You say right on.

Right on.

Perfect, Phil.

Way to go, Phil.

That was so good and efficient that I now want to hear the second Phil Hendrie on South Beach Session trying to resurrect the right on. Who in your house would have taught you what self-love looked like?

Right on.

Is that an edit?

You guys made that one.

No, I heard the entire edit.

That's not possible.

That's how it went.

Absolutely not.

It was a great South Beach session.

Terrible editing.

It was a great South Beach session.

That's a self-assured man right there.

That doesn't make any sense.

That sounds like— That's a great bit. Ben asking like the most South Beach sessions question and just somebody big-leaguing it. With a short answer?

Right on.

Great bit. Do that every week.

Run on.

That's what I'm hoping for from Manu in Spanish.

Boss. Right on.

What's the deepest, darkest, saddest part of your professional career?

Run on.

Cool.

What did the darkness look like?

Right on.

Did it make you cry? Right on. When you wept, what did it feel like in your soul?

Right on.

Have you had sadder moments than that?

Right on.

I like the inflection.

Right on.

Yeah, yeah. Well said. Well said. Down, Levitar!

Can't trade Marino! Nice hat!

Nice hat, Zazzle!

It's what he's most known for! It's not like I'm holding on to it!

Greg Cody! Nice hat!

And we're 9-2! But it's Marino!

Nice hat!

And then the next time we saw Marino after Greg Cody traded him, He threw for 5 touchdowns.

Nice.

And he was Dan the Man on the COVID of Sports Illustrated. You can't trade Marino.

Nice hat, asshole. This is the Dan Levatar Show.

Number 70.

Number 70. I'm fuller than Vern Fuller. 69. Where's my click-click? 68. Hey, Butterfinger. 67.

Punt.

66, Scranton. 65, I'm busier than a one-armed paper hanger. 64, Georgia, Georgia. 63, I'm the kind of guy that— 62, ballin' the jack. 61, hey hey, we're the Monkees, baby. 60, thank you, Billy. 59, I love 'em like a pet. 58, who made it a salad? 57, we're rollin' now. 56, your brain beatin' me. 55, let's go States. 54, driver comfort is paramount. 53, dummy up. Sabe up. 52, catch as catch can. 51, doesn't make it right. 50, so on and so forth. 49, very good. 48, the Little League theory. 47, nice hat, asshole. 46, the others, they all learned from me. 45, don't go showerin' to try to please me. 44, look at that jerk. 43, it's like a packing house in here. There should be hams hanging from hooks. 42, what'd you learn? 41, hee-haw, 3, bada-up. 40, I'm not gonna take a quiz. 39, sassafras. 38, what'd we break a window? 37, hello. 36, who won? 35, trailers for sale or rent. 34, you gotta eat a peck of dirt before you die. 33, 3 words, we are the Lobos. 32, you're gonna go to Buffalo.— with Bernie Parmley. 31, rappy cac.

30, another crisis solved. 29, nice chatting with ya. 28, he ain't heavy, he's my blank. 27, hey, that's what I'm talking about. 26, who let a pet. 25, good on ya. 24, dancing swords. 23, QK, quick crap. 22, bae. 21, blankin' it. 20, that's a fact, Jack. 19, gotta wanna learn, gotta wanna earn. 18, put a Lobos mint under your pillow and dream big. 17, quite a bit. 16, take the rest of the day off. 15, do what now? 14, right on. 13—

Hold on a second, are we, is this an old one? Is this a—

No, 13 is from last week and then the new ones are 12 and 11.

All right, so, okay, so we've got one more.

Yes.

Do what now?

14 is right on. 13, Who Shot John? And the new ones are 12 and 11.

All right, before we get to those, Chris Cody, I want your verdict, okay, on which of these you believe to be actually better than I'm Just a Small Private Individual. Butterfinger, do you believe that's better? Yes or no?

Hey, Butterfinger!

I love Butterfinger.

Okay, Scranton, you believe that's better? Yes or no?

Scranton Bads.

Ball in the Jack, yes or no?

No, I don't like ballin' the jack.

Catch as catch can.

Better? I like that one better.

So on and so forth?

No.

Who shot John?

I like who shot John.

Sassafras?

I like that one better.

Rappycack?

I like that one better.

They're just fun words. 3.

There's 3 in there, though, that you could definitely replace for sure.

I believe your father is lying, and I don't know how we catch him in this lie. I believe he simply forgot. I'm just a small private individual.

Oh, he for sure forgot it.

Give me a polygraph. I'll take it right now. Strap me up. Strap it on.

Strap what on?

The polygraph machine. The wires. What do you put them on your face? It's like nowadays when you go into the doctor, right? You put your fingertip in something and it gives your temperature. I suspect that's what the polygraph is, right? Just do that, baby. Anyway, you want 12 and 11 or no?

Yes, I would love 12 and 11.

Number 12. If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning.

Right on.

So when ham came up earlier and I said, if I had a hammer, unbeknownst to everyone on earth but me, I was teasing number 12.

Well, I had heard the podcast, so I knew.

That's true.

That's how the great ones do it.

It did debut on the Greg Cody Show, uh, yesterday, if I must be truthful, with Number 11.

So you're saying unbeknownst to anyone but you and everyone in your listening audience.

That's true, yes. That's true. You're right.

So you were saying it was the exclusive domain of just you, except for you had shared it with anyone who listens to you.

Right, exactly.

This is in the same category of the showering. Anytime he hears the word shower, he's just gonna say, "Don't go showering!" And this is if he just hears the word hammer, kind of like earlier. Okay, just sings, if I had a hammer.

This is historic right now because we are legitimately now, it would appear unless something changes in the next week, we are approaching the top 10. Yes, the actual top 10. We are again approaching the top 10. Now it might move back and we might be outside the top 20 again when he remembers a bunch on the drive home.

But number 11, number 11 was born on Christmas Day. Rap, rap, rap, they call him the rapper.

Run on. Pretty self-explanatory. When someone's wrapping something or unwrapping a gift, he sings that.

We are at the precipice of the top 10 in the longest bit in podcast history. Aqua?

Uh, I—

all right, I want to have an issue with this, but I assume Chris Cody feels very strongly that this is a trademark catchphrase because he's had the pleasure of spending Christmas mornings with you.

Yes, I mean, both of those are just See, are they a little overrated? I feel like both of those could have been lower on this list, but these are 100% both those songs, 12 and 11. They are Greg Cody Staples. He's sung my whole life.

Thank you. They, um, they apply to rap as in music, and they apply to wrap as in gift wrap, uh, and, and any other version of wrap. Uh, my, my dad used to refer to knocking on a door as rapping on a door. I have no idea why. Don't remember ever asking him. But had he said— had he been alive now and said, someone's rapping at the door, I'd be over there in the background going, rap, rap, rap, they call him the rapper.

Greg, while that is delightful, I would like to know the methodology behind ranking that as high as it is. I'm not saying it shouldn't be, right, one of the top 70. I'm just saying there are some Greg Cody staples in there, like We Are the Lobos and all that. It's much much further down the list. How do you weigh what is actually a high-ranking—

Shocking to hear that, that high and that close to the top 10. Shocking to hear something I've never heard you do before.

Um, well, I have done it before. That's the thing, one of the things about this list is that some of them are things that I say all the time on this show and on my show and just regularly. Some of the things are, are more family things that Christopher is really aware of, whereas maybe you all much less so. Some of the things are very personal to me. Nobody had ever heard the Little League theory before. But the reason I put it in there is that it's something I've said since I was 11 years old playing for Adler's Drugs. And I'd come home, I wouldn't feel like going to the game and my parents would make me go. And I'd have 3 hits and make a great play in the field. I was gung-ho for the game and I'd go 0 for 4 with 2 strikeouts and an error. That's the Little League Theory, and it applies to all parts of life. Sometimes, if you really, really look forward to something, it's a disappointment. And if you dread something, it's much better than you expected. I have found that to be a truism, not, not entirely, but enough where it became a theory called the Little League Theory.

And that's all caps, by the way. Including the, the, the Little League theory. So people can make fun of it, but it's only number 48. It's not like I ranked it real high.

All I know is that who made it a salad in the '50s is like, what the hell is this?

12 and 11. Who made it a salad?

You know, this did start as a top 50. So as a messy byproduct of that whole construct, making it a top 70 meant some of the catchphrases are a little higher than the Should be. In fact, number 11 wasn't on the list at all.

But, you know, it was. If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in them holes.

Well, the top 10's been set.

The top 10, I think, is known. The order of it is not known. That's open to debate. But here's the other thing, and I can't say this enough. You give me any top 70— top 70 all-time baseball players, top 70 movies, Top 70 foods. Everybody's list is gonna be different. Somebody's gonna have sardines in the '60s. Somebody else is gonna go, "What? That's in the top 70?" And it's the very same with this Catchphrase Countdown. I love it when I hear people say, "I don't think rap, rap, rap should have been as high as number 11," because you know what? Debate is good, controversy is good, and it is hard to believe that rap, rap, rap so greatly outranked "We're rolling now, huh?" And "Very good!" Yeah, that's true.

Very good's got to be pissed.

Yeah, you could argue that, uh, the person making this list really doesn't know what he's doing.

The craziest part about this is that rapping at the door is like a very normal phrase. Is it? Yeah, it's in The Raven by Edgar Allan Poe.

Okay, maybe my dad was a big Poe fan.

As of someone gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.

Okay, there you go. Rap, rap, rap, they call him the rapper.

Um, maybe your dad was a Ravens fan.

It could be. Yeah, you know what? The Ravens weren't around back then. The Baltimore Ravens. But the Bird was. Dan Levitar.

I do agree with Greg that—

Why are you talking so slow?

Why are you talking so slow? The Dolphins need to win this opener.

It's 'cause you can hear yourself. It's kind of awkward.

Greg.

What do you mean?

Greg, do you have a "Back in My Day"?

A what?

Greg Cuddy.

I stand behind Greg for not doing "Back in My Days" anymore. Y'all have him singing songs and doing so many ancillary things that it's ridiculous and you know it.

Talk faster.

Why are you talking so slow?

I'm talking at my normal speed. This is, uh, yeah, my wife loves this deep sexy voice. I'll tell you that.

There you go.

How would you talk to her with it?

Yeah, baby.

This is the Dan Levitan Show.

A number of things that I want to bring up here. Number one, put it on the poll at Levitard Show. Should anybody have sardines in their top 60 foods at Levitard Show? And also something that he said, debate is good, controversy is good. I saw some people who were writing about the idea that ESPN is now moving to try and unwind the embrace debate era. And some things have been written about can they actually, by edict, remove what has become, you know, game-changing in our industry, which is create debate for the sake of debate. It's how First Take went from ESPN's most criticized show to one of its most valuable shows is because what Greg is saying is right, that debate is good and controversy is is good. And in that respect, I want to play for you— I've got a number of football stories that I want to get to, but from yesterday, uh, the Pittsburgh Steelers are not interesting. This season is thrown away. They don't have a championship chance. Uh, their 1-year bandage at quarterback, Mike McCarthy, though, is chief— the hood ornament on uninteresting is Mike McCarthy.

It's Mike McCarthy.

And, and so Pat McAfee is making his rounds, going around to football camps. And if you're going to Steelers camp, you're going to talk to Aaron Rodgers. And I'm actually— when it comes to Aaron Rodgers, I am grateful that there is a quarterback that is willing to go outside of the confines of all of the boring that quarterbacks give you. I think that the most interesting personality at quarterback who isn't Aaron Rodgers publicly is probably Baker Mayfield. I don't know, like just in terms of personality, in terms of how he's creating headlines. They all try to avoid headlines, right? And so listen to parts of this exchange because I don't want to get into the all of it, but from the question to parts of the answer, I want to ask you guys a couple of questions off of this. Can you tell us about the mindset of coming into your last season? Like, that's a real thing, it feels like, because is everything better? Is everything funner? Is everything more awesome? Like, how do you kind of view this year versus maybe the years of the past? I'm going to plead the Fifth. Okay.

Okay. Oh, I gotta love that guy. Okay. Like that absolute coward, Tony Fauci. Absolute coward.

Are you kidding me?

Yeah, 111 times. You got a pardon and you pleaded over 100 times?

Yeah.

At the White House?

What are you scared of, Tony? I thought you were the science. Yeah, yeah.

I thought you were—

I am science.

And you get up there and you can't answer a question?

Yeah. What are we doing?

And how much time does The network spend that?

How much time do they spend on my responses every week on my vaccination status, on Taylor and Travis's wedding? Yeah. You may have seen McAfee clap during that after he goes after the network. That dynamic is interesting.

Yeah.

The question— that's one of McAfee's producers enjoying the chaos that they're causing.

I like If you kept watching the clip, he then starts to really go in on ESPN.

The producers are like, whoa, back to Fauci.

They literally just said, go back to Fauci.

Yeah.

So a number of things that I want to get to here, Greg, but what are your thoughts as you hear portions of that?

My initial thought is if you have Aaron Rodgers on as a guest, you want maximum Aaron Rodgers. You want weird Aaron Rodgers. He was 5 years ago, he was the sports face of anti-vaxxers, and so the idea he would make fun of Fauci is not surprising. I don't— I didn't find that a particularly entertaining exchange, but it seemed like maybe the crowd did. Somebody else, some coach, opened a press conference with the Fifth Amendment joke. Taking the Fifth Amendment is perfectly legal in America, and it's not supposed to imply guilt or imply you're hiding something. You're allowed to plead the Fifth Amendment, as a parenthetical. But, but, you know, his, his job is to have on guests that are interesting to people. If that does good ratings, if that does good numbers, then it's a good interview.

Okay, so that's one of the things I wanted to talk about with you here, because you just said debate is good and controversy is good, and I'm guessing ESPN made nothing yesterday that was seen more than that. My guess is that ESPN made nothing yesterday that was seen close to a fraction as much as that. And the question I have for Amin and the rest of you is not what is ESPN's job, but what is television's job? And the reason that I ask the question is because when ESPN had 110 million subscribers and 100 million of them were not actually watching much of anything on ESPN, the most viewed things were football games and it was 10 million people watching football games. So you have 100 million people paying for something that they're not actually watching or using. It's a bulletproof business model, and when you have that business model, you can play around with the making of things, with formats, with movies, with 30 for 30, because you've got such an excess of money that you can play around for that, but with that, but this is a more desperate time. And I believe that the job of television is simply, and it has no greater responsibility than what it is that I'm saying if you're cable television.

Network television may be something different. The job of television, first and foremost, is get your attention, keep your attention. Those are the jobs. That's not the job that ESPN necessarily signed up for. They wanted to do journalism around that. They wanted to feel like newspapers felt, where it's not just that we're going to give you the stuff that you want to read, we're going to tell you what's also important, how to think about things. We're gonna, we're gonna give you information, yes, but we're going to create a hierarchy so that we're telling you What's important? The most important thing now is just get the eyes, correct? Is there another— is there any other job that television has now other than just get the eyes?

Can I ask, was there ever any other job other than get the eyes? Isn't that like that? What, like we all circle jerk to ratings? That's just eyes. That's, that's a fancy way of saying eyes.

The ratings have never mattered at ESPN. They've, they've been the worldwide leader whether they have the ratings or not.

Well, you asked me about television. You didn't ask me about ESPN. If we're going to ESPN specifically, it didn't matter because again, to remind everybody, for decades of cable and satellite TV bills, there was a hidden fee in there that was mandatory. The moment you had the most basic cable package that wasn't— was anything more than broadcast networks, you paid an ESPN fee whether you watched that thing religiously or you never even heard of sports. And that was what made them the most profitable arm of the mighty Disney Corporation. More than the parks, more than the movies, more than the merchandising, anything you could think of. What about this? Cruise lines, whatever it is, ESPN was number one cash cow because rain or snow, the money came in regularly. And the thing that killed it was people saying, I don't need cable anymore. Cord cutting killed ESPN's profit printing action. And so as a result, now it's like the ratings do become meaningful because now you have to earn your keep. You have to attract attention, whereas before the attention was already monetized even if no one turned it on.

So what is it though about Puritan interests or American viewing habits that there is some sort of line that Jerry Springer crosses, that there is some sort of televised line where the job isn't supposed to be just get eyes, where people get angry because you've crossed some sort of moral line by debasing yourself and grabbing at stuff that people view as somehow beneath whatever the standard of television is supposed to be according to the people who are calling and complaining. Look, man, ESPN has had to change some of this stuff, at least in part because their customers were complaining. There was a segment of the customer population that felt like it was not being spoken for the way that Aaron Rodgers and Pat McAfee just made them feel spoken for by having all of what he just said on ESPN, specifically on Disney.

Right on.

Right. I think what you want— and I heard your talk with Dan Patrick about interviewing. I found it fascinating. I think that what you want from an interview is emotion from the audience or from the person you're, you're talking to. If I'm interviewing Aaron Rodgers, I don't care the least about him regurgitating old animus against Fauci, and I don't care all that much about the Steelers or the football season, even though it's his last. What I care about is what he's going through now with mending his broken relationship with his family. Which I think is an opportunity to take a very polarizing guy like Aaron Rodgers, who a lot of people mock and make fun of, and now he's doing something that even Rodgers haters go, you know what, I'm happy for him. I'm glad after all this time he's, he's mended his relationship.

Then you got me thinking back here, as where did the line get crossed, as you asked. And I think you're right, it is Jerry Springer. That is the flashpoint in television history where we went from, yeah, it doesn't have to be high-minded conversation here. Phil Donahue and all that, like, very like families disrupted, how can we bring people together in this very emotionally kind of caring environment? Jerry Springer gave a middle finger to all that and said, no, just give me some yokels, we're gonna fight, and then let's have the crowd get up and start roasting the people at the end of the episode. And all that stuff was, people looked at it as lowest common denominator kind of filth, But it printed money and it did numbers and it spawned kind of other imitators. And as a result, we took this giant step. The next big step, the writers' strike of the early 2000s, because what happened was TV had to pivot to something that didn't need as much writers and they pivoted to reality TV and reality TV. They saw the numbers would spike when like certain people Hey, this guy's a jackass.

Let's put him on more. Let's antagonize him. Let's antagonize the people around him. That shoved Hollywood and mainstream media towards, oh, let's— yeah, let's do it. And then the final part, you said First Take, but you know who First Take granddaddy is?

The one called Pizza Pizza?

No, before Cold Pizza.

Pardon the interruption.

And yes, pardon the interruption. Was two smart, funny guys who knew each other and had a great rapport. But the takeaway was people like arguments, and that spawned everything that's happened over the last 25 years or so.

So, so I've told this story before, but I will tell it again. At one point on ESPN, on SportsCenter, Mitch Albom, me, and Mike Lupica were doing sort of written essays that we would just read, and they went to their focus groups and they tested that, and their focus groups all came back with, I just don't want to hear one side of this. I I want to hear both sides of this. I don't want to hear just Mitch Albom or Mike Lupica or me talking about one subject. I want two people talking about it. And so they took that advice, they went with their focus groups, and they changed some of that. When Ameen says Jerry Springer, and when we talk about Jerry Springer, he was no rules. My job is only to put something on television that you're going to watch. And I've watched a handful of documentaries, whether it's the weight loss show whether it's To Catch a Predator, where it's Jerry Springer, where the cost of that is the human beings who are making those television shows were really damaged by what it is that they were making there in pursuit of all of that money and all of those eyes.

But let's go back for a second to what Aaron Rodgers just did there on Fauci. I do understand how it is that Kyrie Irving and Aaron Rodgers would get annoyed by the fact that they were being pressured by everyone on the idea that science and the rest of us were telling them that they needed to put something in their body that they did not want to put in their body. And we did cover that for a long time because it was the athletes doing that. But here Aaron Rodgers is coming and asking ESPN to talk about Fauci on McAfee's show when Their policy is no politics unless Aaron Rodgers brings it up. Then you're allowed to talk about it, which is what it is that ended up being the beginning of the end for us at ESPN, because I was objecting to the idea of that, of what do you mean the policy has to be that Aaron Rodgers has to bring this up before I'm allowed to bring it up so that I could use him as a meat shield? What did you think of his complaints there? The complaints on the network that he's— he obviously doesn't want to talk about football.

This is a guy— to be clear on what this is, okay? In the Brady era, I believe this to be the best quarterback that there was, and I believe he would have won more Super Bowls than Brady if he had merely been drafted by a team that played in domes. If he had merely— go look at his numbers in domes when the conditions cannot affect him and home field advantage isn't actually home field advantage, because he's got to play in Green Bay in December and January when the elements are going to affect his game. This is the best quarterback I had ever seen, even in the Brady era. And the punctuation on his career is just— he's going for this one season in Pittsburgh where quietly I thought he stopped doing this show, correct? I, I assume that McAfee was, uh, told and quietly agreed to with everybody involved and, and threw a bone to ESPN. I'll, I'll not talk to Aaron Rodgers every week so that it's not quite this noisy every week, something that you don't actually want with your broadcast.

It became more occasional and And I don't know if that was Aaron's decision, the Steelers, them collaborating. Pat McAfee has always shown whenever he wants Aaron Rodgers on, he puts Aaron Rodgers on, which is part of the facade that I take objection with, with this whole thing.

But he was on a lot less the last season.

Yeah, but I think that that was his decision. But this serves a lot of people. It's just not super interesting. I think it's interesting that a bunch of free thinkers think that they're being free thinkers when they're falling for a classic diversionary tactic constructed by the right. We're talking about something from 7 years ago, and oh, we're provocative, we're talking about pleading the Fifth. You start peeling back the layers, what are we actually celebrating? The fact that our mortality rate was 1 out of every 1,600? That's a victory parade? And even if you pull back further layers, you're like, well, who was in charge back then? Ah, lefties? No, that wasn't there. It serves a lot of people. Number 1, it serves the right, and number 2, it serves this facade of Pat McAfee and his show being anti-establishment when they are the key talent for Disney's cable sports channel.

I, I, I'm— maybe I'm confused, maybe I'm ill-informed. Is the argument that like, hey, those vaccines turns out not necessary because kind of stem the tide of the spread of COVID No, like, didn't it work? Are we just celebrating that Fauci—

I just wanted people to stop being assholes and wear a mask.

Yeah, well, look, this is, this is, uh, a, a conversation about whether you believe in science or not, and it's a larger conversation in, uh, than sports. But when Mike says he doesn't find it super interesting, he's certainly allowed to not find it super interesting. But you can't tell me it's being viewed more than anything else at ESPN because others aren't finding it interesting.

Which, to answer your question, like, what is television's job? We all saw this clip on social media.

Uh, but that's what television has become in the modern age. Like, it becoming something that's on social media, something that is the lifeblood now of late all late-night television.

Well, I think right now ESPN's daytime programming job is to make Pat McAfee a huge star, and Pat McAfee famously has an edge to him, but I think that's a construct now. You can only have so much edge when you're being put on everything. How dangerous is this person really if you're the first call the, the channel makes? So anytime Aaron Rodgers does stuff like that or invokes Russini and Vrabel it makes Pat McAfee seem more dangerous than he actually is because ESPN is totally fine with what goes on there. Otherwise Aaron Rodgers wouldn't be on.

Yeah.