Transcript of South Beach Sessions - Neal Brennan: "I'm The Kevin Durant of Comedy" New

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So, uh, the reason I wanted to do this with you, my good friend who I love, uh, is because you're really wise about making good things. You know how to make things well. I think as great a comedian as you are, you might be a better producer. I don't know how you—

I mean, I don't— yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's just a different thing. It's just like I'm a servant when I'm directing. I'm a servant, right? And I have to— it's corporate and I have a schedule that I have to meet and I, it's storyboard and laid out. So that's like two different, like I say, I have grid brain where I have like, I need to get this portion by 10:20 and I need to get in and I need a single and I need an insert of the, of the bird and I need a, and, and, uh, and all of that is architecture.

All of that is planning. All of that is details. All of that is not the creative mind.

But the creative part is I have 8 minutes and I have to get this person, whether it's the person I worked with yesterday, unnamed—

You keep doing that, though. It's a very big star and the story would be made better by this person's name.

It would be made better, but we're not there yet. We're not there yet. They're not there yet in terms of their approach to commercials.

Okay.

They're not sh— So, but I have to make them, they have to say something funny. And they have 8 minutes. And there's a script and it's not that funny. And we have to figure it out. And there is like a, what they call in screenwriting, a ticking clock.

Well, that, what you're specifically describing there when I talk about what I think of you as a producer and I've never seen you direct a commercial, though I can imagine it.

It's pretty incredible.

I think those 8 minutes where you can actually get the funniest stuff out of whatever athlete X who doesn't want to be there acting. The reason that I say you're a great producer is because you know what good things look like. Like you have the taste. If you're watching something and you say it's excellent, it's going to be excellent. You know how to make excellent things.

Sometimes I know how to— I know how to try. But if you don't, if it's not, if it's I've made— I've— that same taste has been applied to duds, and the same— and all the ideas come out of the same hole, and it's the same spirit, and the same— and yeah, we didn't get it.

What would you describe when, when The Hollywood Reporter calls you a comic whisperer? This is the producer I'm talking about. You're helping the best in comedy, or the people who have the biggest reputations. They're coming to you for help on, is this funny? And you're acting as a producer when in most settings you're in, you're obviously the funniest person there in whatever.

I have a line. I say, I am a famous comedian unless a famous comedian is there. And then I'm a writer. It's just what it is. It's just what happened. It's literally like, it basically just comes down to charisma more or less. Cause it's like, I've written for Dave, Chris Allen, like the Hall of Fame. And what's the difference? I clearly can write the thing that they can. So it just comes down to life. It comes down to spirit and charisma. And I am working on— that's like an ongoing project. The Charisma Project. The Neil Brennan, the untitled Neil Brennan Charisma Project.

Okay, well, but you did in— this was Blocks, I think. And I should tell people, go to his podcast. It's exceptional. It's a derivative from his special on Netflix.

Derivative is not a great word. Let's go with inspired by. That— see, guys, I'm directing and producing right now.

Sorry, I insulted you.

Dan, you seemed— that's not— you're insulting the guests. Can I have an earwig? He's wearing an earwig.

I am wearing this. Do you want theirs?

No, I don't. I want to have one to tell you. You asked for it.

Here, here.

I want to talk to you.

Uh, in Bloxx, I think you, uh, were mentioning that you used to wear a watch to remind you to smile on stage so that you could project that you were enjoying what you were doing and giving off charisma. Yes. And having the robotically forced charisma of John Mulaney.

Yes. Well, no, I—

no, I'm saying you're forced so that you can have the charisma that comes naturally to him.

Mulaney's more charismatic in his sleep than I am. At full volume.

You Apple Watch John Malaney in an effort to be more charismatic on stage.

Yes. What's, to me, hilarious thing is, so I explain the watch and then I'm talking and I go, I just suddenly look up and smile. That's the poster. That's one of the Netflix, if you go to Blocks on Netflix, it's me fake smiling 'cause I got shocked.

Electrocuted.

I got electrocuted into smiling. I'm gonna free— so now I'm trying to free myself from electrocution.

Because you can be wise about these things, and because, as I said, on Blocks, which isn't derivative but is talking to comedians and others about the things that block them, you have found a way to do interviewing very well, very vulnerably with people who give to you at least in part because they respect you.

I also think it's because they've they've seen me do it. They've seen me, like, I've paid my ante. I've gone like, "Ah, I'm depressed." So they're like, "Yeah, he seems okay. Like, he seems like he didn't pay a big price." So it's pretty, it's interesting. It's probably oversaturated now in terms of vulnerability. The vulnerability market is oversaturated, but I get maybe I was early to it.

Well, Three Mikes was early.

Three Mikes was 10 years ago, so yeah. So I was early, I was, yeah, I was early to that for sure.

I did research on you and it was a delight to do it 'cause there were actually some things that I did not know about you and I don't know how recent this is.

How racist? Go ahead, let's say.

I knew you were gonna seize on that. I didn't even need the earpiece.

I seized on it like a white man on a new continent.

That you used to write on an index card your achievements so that when it feels like you're drowning you can just remind yourself that you've made decent things?

Yes, literally, that's how, there are times where I'm, I can get that lost. I don't think that's even unique to people. The thing that, the thing in Three Mics that people bring up the most is like, depression's like wearing a weighted vest. So I think that's a very relatable thing. The achievement thing, I, you know, as any, any, and every single person on earth knows, you know, you eat ice cream, it feels good for a while, and then it wears off. You, anything good, and you're like, I'm never gonna not feel this. It's so, so it was like literally an index card of like, oh yeah, that was my idea, and I pitched that joke, and that, uh, okay. And I'd be like a little better.

How long ago was that, that you, that, that card was in your pocket?

I mean, that, that card The card was the, in my mind, the image is like 2006. So like in where I am, where I am physically in the world, looking at that thing, but I had it in my pocket a long time. But I, it's never, that's not, I don't think it's a, it's a, I think the human experience, the human body, is we are subject to chemicals that we don't really even understand. And we can get knocked into a chemical kind of veer, a mood, whatever. We go with some, I'm in a bad mood, but it's basically just like chemicals fuck with you. And it's hard to get out of them. You know, it just is hard to get out. So having some protocol, my partner Lucy just sent me literally at the bottom of the steps, a clip of me. She really gets me.

She sent me a love letter, a real love letter.

I mean, that's— you want to talk love language, clips of you. My love language is clips of me. Of me saying to Hasan— I hate that I have to re-pronounce his name— Hasan Minhaj. He told me how to say it the first time, guys, and it was Hasan. And me saying like, if you don't, it's a thought I had on drugs, which is if you're not happy with this life, spin the wheel of 8 billion outcomes. What do you think? You think you're going to beat it? Go ahead, spin the wheel. No, no, no, go. Go ahead, spin the wheel. So I was complaining and my girlfriend said, basically send me a clip saying spin the wheel.

Yeah, because you're, Your life, in some ways, you've gotten almost all of it.

I mean, that's the thing is you put a caveat on it, in some ways. It's like, like what? You're talking about, you want to talk about the narcissism of small differences, like the narcissism of like, yeah, but, and I do it and I see how stupid it is.

Oh no, but what I was going to say though, while you have come by just about all of the things that you've ever wanted, I've always, as your friend, also sort of wanted to hold you because happiness hasn't always been one of those things, right?

And unholdable. Inherently.

If I spin the wheel and happy comes up, but you can't have all of the things that the genie bottle opens so that you could have exactly the life you wanted.

And also, I've gotten significantly happier and I don't look happy. Like, Kevin Nealon did my— did Blocksy, the podcast the other day, derivative of the Netflix special. And he— stolen. He was like, "Be happy." And I was like, "Dude, I had just had a great time. I just don't—

my face doesn't exactly." Oh no, but I'm not measuring this happiness. For the people who don't know the entire history of the story, which you've told on stage in these vulnerabilities, like you've gone to have your brain tapped in China because you— because you thought there was something wrong with you when really you came from an imprinting environment that sounds like it was pretty horrible.

Yeah, even that, yes, but thankfully due to the shocking and the ayahuasca and the DMT and the MDMA, I've gotten that 95% out of my body. So even when I hear about tough childhood, I'm like, I mean, the good thing about aging is it just becomes like a hazy dream where you're like, oh yeah, I, oh yeah. I don't even, you just go, oh, it's so far in the Chappelle Show. So I mean, that's a million years ago. Yeah. I mean, you want to talk about, that's one thing like childhood. I mean, these are not even like different. Like I was a different person. I wasn't, but it's like, so long ago now that you can barely— it's like, it becomes like the thing, like, I don't identify as that for sure, but I don't even— I remember it. I remember it. I know it happened, but I don't— if you— there are not— there are full days where I don't think about it.

Do you— I'm guessing the work you've done, whether it's DMT, ayahuasca, or anything else, you probably have gotten the vibrations, energies of the trauma out of your body. Like, you've probably excised them with the work you've done. Yeah.

I used to yell at a therapist, it's in my body. This is in my body. I can keep talking about this. Therapy just becomes after a while, like a bit of an incantation. Like, and then my father, like, it becomes like a Catholic mass where it's just like, uh, Uh, here are the stories I've told about why I am how I am. Yeah. And, uh, and so I have it. I think it's out of my body. It's one of those, it's again, it's hard to say like it was in your body, but, but it cert— it sure feels like I can't, I can't even summon it. I can't even summon the negative feeling around it, which is awesome.

That means you've healed yourself really. Right.

Like, Yes, my worry is though, because it's so saturated, it just becomes like white noise of like just what we used to call psychobabble or new age or influencer trauma TikTok. It's really been cheapened and there's so much, so many hucksters that—

Hold on a second, but let's talk about the work you've actually done because while you pshaw the idea of being so desperate that you would go to China to have your brain tapped because you're like, get this out of me. This isn't— like, I've done all the work.

China, please help me.

I've done all the work. I'm smart enough. I know myself. No, this is something that I don't know about. There's something in me. You now go through an assortment of things. DMT to alter your brain chemistry.

Yeah.

Ayahuasca to kill the ego.

Or not even same. I think it was brain chemistry with that as well.

Okay, well, you found God in there though.

Yeah.

So what, so you go from atheist and critical clinical thinker to ayahuasca has broken me open. No, there's all sorts of things. I don't know. I just felt them.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's another advantage. You know what I mean? Another, like, how could you possibly feel sorry for yourself? Trust me, I still do. No, no, no. But how could you possibly? The amount— I'm not a big like privilege and all that stuff, but like, you want to talk about lucky to even have the opportunity to do this stuff. It's like, you know, that's not common. And, and the other thing with all these treatments, even antidepressants, they don't know why it works or how it works. So it's just try it, try it, try it, try it. And I think I have the— I'm ambitious about a lot of things, but Mental health's one of them. And so I was like, no, that's not good enough. I'm going to go a step further. I'm going to make this episode solid as a producer. I'm producing and directing my own mental health. Generally, I'm like, nah, this is not— we got to do another one. And like, literally like, dup, dup, ga ga ga ga ga, like whatever, whatever.

Yeah.

And I've been like that for 25 years.

Okay, but then that's, that's self-love though. That is taking care of yourself. It's finding the things that you need to, to be right in the world while also trying to be easier on yourself.

Because yeah, but it's also like, fuck, it's— I'm competitive with it. I think it's, I think it's wrong that, that anyone feels like this. So I'm like, no, I like just want to keep— I'm a Karen for my own mental health where I'm just like, no. No, no, no, nope, we're not. I'm not doing this.

So, okay, so you're sitting there somewhere.

So self-love is true, but it's a bit like, I'm competitive and I'm ambitious. So it's like, I'm not gonna, I don't wanna, I get mad that I feel shitty still after having done stuff.

Okay, so this is the most evolved version of you I've known. But when I read the quote, and I don't know when this was from, you're saying you don't know whether whether right now this is all supposed to be a solo journey or whether this is invest in relationships and also, you know, invest in others.

Yes.

How old is that quote?

I don't know what the quote is, but yeah, I don't— yeah, well, I'm assuming it's before I met my partner. So it's 3 years ago, before 3 years ago. And Now I'm very involved and it's really great. It's really great. It's like, it's as good. Here's the thing. It's, I think my life as a solo person was great. And I didn't, that's another thing I didn't want to, I'm competitive with that. Like I'm not going to be like, where is she? I'm not going to play that game. Like it's silly. If I brought someone into my life, it was gonna be an improvement. And which people don't like, where I'm like, no, can you improve this? Then come on in. But if not, I'm not gonna, I don't feel the need to have kids. I don't feel a need to, I'm not especially lonely. I'm not especially boreable, meaning like I'm not, I can fill it up. So my time and attention.

So it's been great. Yeah, if someone's going to come into your life, they have to make it better than it already is.

Yeah, and it's already, I'm already competitive in that regard, like in terms of like, no, I want my life to be good. I'm gonna go places, I'm gonna try stuff, I'm gonna, you know, so yeah, she's made it better, and it's awesome.

Because it's not a solo journey. We've decided this because you had great conviction in your atheism, and then ayahuasca changed your worldview. You've had great conviction about, You know, I'm self-sustaining and I'm solo. I've tried plenty. I have plenty to love. And you've had, you know, you've lived big inside of single life.

Yeah.

And now you've arrived.

Sounds slutty, doesn't it? Go ahead.

And now you live with somebody who gives you the feeling that's bigger than you've ever had.

Yeah, an improvement. Yeah, an improvement on uh, solo life. And, and it's— and that's been like a process of like, you know, adjustment in terms of asking for what I want within it, you know, which is it— which is a— that's kind of its own challenge of like, mm, because you're supposed to just do and want what they want. Sorry.

That's not the way that works.

Sorry, sorry, ladies.

That's not exactly—

that's not— no. I'm a pain in the ass, pain in the ass. So it's like, I'm gonna Karen produce, direct, whatever that as well. Like, I'm just like, mm, no, I don't. And the willingness to say something is a huge difference maker. And I don't think most people do it.

The way that you do creativity, 'cause these are two different, these are different skill sets what you're talking about. It's needed from the producer and the director versus the thing that you love the most, which is being the comic, right?

But that, being the comic is a lot of that too. Being the comic is like, and that's what I've been doing the last 6 months is like watching my sets, which I've never done before. And I naturally am more charismatic from watching it and like, going, you gotta do more. You gotta be, you know what I mean? So that is producing and then the writing part. But it's all adjustments. It's all kind of the same thing, which is just making adjustments.

Why did you not watch yourself before?

Because there weren't, just bringing a camera, it was just kind of a pain. And it's, and more, and the truth is 'cause it's embarrassing. It's just embarrassing. It's just like, ugh.

Really?

Yeah.

You're so good at it though. All you see is the mistakes. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, that's the funny thing. I mean, I've had, I've directed specials for people who said, don't cut to the left side of my face. Cause they'd never watched themselves. Katt Williams told me he's never watched one of his specials. Like, I don't know if it's true, but like, I know people that don't watch their specials and don't watch themselves on stage. So, but because of that, because I think, well, I don't know what their, I don't think Katt would be embarrassed. I think it, I don't know why. I, again, I don't know if it's true and if it's, if he, if it's, I don't know the reasoning, but I know it's the, all of this is, is self-selecting standup. It's like, how hard do you want to work? I was talking to Ali Wong the other day about Nikki Glaser and like, Nikki's just a really, she's so funny, but also like a great producer. And like, she's got it for the, for the things, the TV stuff, 6, 8 writers and honing and picking. And you know, one of them I was texting her like, just so it's all kind of that.

And it's just a matter of how much you wanna, even the Mark Twain thing for Dave, it's like, I was good 'cause I got off and Kenan Thompson was like, "How'd you do that?" I was like, "I practiced." I'm not as charismatic as Sarah, Jon Stewart, Kenan, Che, Joe, Dave, Chris, you know, Eddie. It's not even.

You killed it. You had the best speech at the Mark Twain Award with an enormous amount of pressure for, you know, a complicated relationship that you've had over with Chappelle, and you crushed it. And you crushed it.

But I did it by preparation.

Well, but I don't think that— I don't— I talk a lot about the craft here with people, and the producers get mad at me because I'm so fascinated by it. What do they want to talk about? A variety of different things, but I can make comedians less funny because I'm talking about— I'm talking to them about the craft of it. I don't think people have any earthly idea when you get on stage and are that funny in a special, uh, how much obsessive compulsive has been poured of you carrying into that as the most thing and what it means for Neal Brennan to make his dreams come true again and again. Cuz he's so grateful that he gets to be like killer funny with sharp edges.

There's not— I don't even think it's from a place of gratitude, by the way. It's from a place of just like, Competition. No, competitions, I wasn't, I didn't even know who was on the show, but it just, I wanna be better. I just wanna be better. I don't wanna bomb. I don't wanna bomb.

I don't think that people know though how obsessive compulsive you caring about something is.

I agree, but that's the same thing Ali was saying about Nikki is like, I, and the other thing was dealing with the commercial thing yesterday, they were like, so you're gonna go do standup? I'm like, I don't like doing anything else. I have no, there's no other, I'm not like, and then I'll garden, I don't have, there's no, I have no interest besides standup and my partner.

Besides being great at that though, you're talking about, see, this is the thing, right? It'd be so easy for you to get fat. So many guys your age, aren't trying anymore. It's hard to stay funny. It's hard to age gracefully in comedy. And you're a beast because you care about it like that. You care about it the most obsessively because—

I have to. I cannot. I will die. It's like, it's the thing that I don't think journalists understand about Kevin Durant. He doesn't give a fuck about anything but basketball. He doesn't even know— he doesn't think about anything else, like Twitter, but that's all basketball. It's all anger at people for not understanding basketball. And he does not— if he plays video games, I promise you it's 2K. He's watching basketball. He doesn't have any other— most of these guys are not interesting people because they don't care about anything but basketball. And if you talk to basketball players, they talk about Kevin Durant like they're not in the NBA. They talk about him like— yeah, I talked to Brunson about it. He was just like, it's like, yeah, even at our level where you're like, oof, because he doesn't care about anything. And that's the thing with all these, with Shaq and all these guys that like had all these other interests. Like, yo, man, Shaq, you might have gotten injured. You might have gotten injured if you played more. But if you were, if you stayed 290 or 3, I don't know what the good weight was and didn't rap or act or you would have scored, you would have 40, 20, 10.

I have said the people in my crew get mad at me when I say Shaq underachieved.

He—

by winning 14 championships.

You see him in person, and if you had to just— you see him in person, first of all, the first instinct is to run because he's so big. Blake Griffin, one time, my dog, a pit bull, saw Blake in a parking lot and backed up. I've never seen a— he was like, yo, when did they start making people this big? I've never— this is a scale I— so, so yeah, so if you've never seen your pit bull backed up to Blake in like a nice brunch outfit, not even tough looking. Um, so these— so it comes down to I don't care about anything else. I care about Lucy and I care about this, but I've realized in the last 6 months I don't care about houses. I don't care about cars. I don't care about clothes— clearly don't care about clothes. Don't care. I don't care about anything because nothing will be as rewarding as that. Nothing will be as rewarding as a joke working. Nothing! No, no, sorry. So, and a lot of it is like, I've always been very funny. All the people I'm talking to have always been very funny. And then you get a thing where you're like, and you get to go, forget it.

Forget it, it's unbelievable. So, and it's great to be great at something. It feels so much better than like struggling at a thing that you don't care about as much.

You describe it the way that an addict would describe a drug, right?

Mm, that's again, from the people who brought you derivative. How about, I started telling Lucy and anybody that would listen, I just think of it as like bonsai. I'm just like, I have a place in New York now, a corporate apartment. It's not nice. I don't even see it. I see the computer, see the couch, I see the bed. I see the bed. I get choked up. No, I see the bed and I just, I watch my things. Like, I guess like a cra— I just think it's like, I don't know, I don't want to do anything else. I'll watch a documentary, I'll do other stuff, but it's, it's all in service of that for the most part.

And, and it, but it's also in service of you. You don't love it any less now than you ever have, right? Like it's, it, it, when you were a doorman, when you're, when you're, when you're a doorman and this is all starting out.

Yeah.

What did it look like? Did it look like this?

Literally the same. Like, yeah, it's the same. It's the same. Doing the commercial the other day is the same. It's, hey, say this. It's the identical thing that I used to do to Chappelle in 1992 on a commercial. And then I go and I say it to myself, hey, say this. It's just all like, hey, say this. That's the whole, that's it. That's my whole life. It's like literally. Anything good is from, hey, say this.

What was going on when you were, I didn't know until doing the research that you were early roommates with Jay Moore.

I was, we were early roommates, one of the early roommates.

And so this, what was life like then?

He said, someday I'm gonna own the Lakers. He would say, I'd wake up in the middle of the night, he'd be on my chest. Be like, you listen to me, someday I'm gonna own the, what do you mean? And no, so yeah, we were roommates and he was— Jay's a— he's just a funny dude.

So you're making $200 a week, something like that?

$220, $235.

Okay, but this is your post-doorman, right? This is—

No, I'm still doorman.

Okay, you're doorman, but you're performing.

No, no, no, I didn't perform. I performed once in 2000— no, I'm sorry. 1992, then I performed once again in 1997, then I performed, then I started a little bit in 2002 through '04, then stopped till 2007, so.

And everyone's coming through there, right? Like everybody who would then become the biggest comedians.

Yeah, Louis C.K., Marin, Dave, Jon Stewart, Ray Romano, Sarah Silverman.

And you and Jay Mohr are trying to get in.

No, Jay's a— Jay's, you know, he's just— he's a full-time comedian.

Okay, and what was your life like then?

I was the doorman. Jay, I think I was— I sublet Jay's place because he went— he got a sitcom called Camp Wilder with Jerry O'Connell and Hilary Swank. So he was gone, so I sublet his place while he was— and then he came back and we lived together for a couple months.

So what did the struggle look like is where I was getting at.

It was, I look like a ragamuffin, but I was very excited to not to just be like in the, I dropped out of NYU film school and I was like, I'm doing this. 'Cause I realized like I could write a movie. I'm not gonna be able, they're not gonna let me direct a movie at 21 out of college. Then you have to pay for it. It just all seemed like, once I got in school, I was like, this is a bad system.

I would have assumed that that was more like comedians, I like hanging out with them and film students.

It was, yeah, and then I'd go, yeah, and then during that, they were, the students were dickheads and the comedians were, you know, great comedians.

Funny, like, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it's more fun over there. Louis, Sarah, Attell, my brother Kevin, Ray Romano, like, you know, the people I just named. So, and Dave's the only guy my age. Jay's a little older than us, but like, but yeah. So it was just like, oh, I like this.

There's something about film that also though, it stirs in there, right? Or it did once upon a time.

That's why I direct commercials. Cause I like, I mean, I, you know, I directed Chevelle Show. Like I love, I like, I love the direction is awesome. So, so that's all, you know, yeah. So I like doing that as like, The commercial I directed yesterday was the DP, director of photography, was, is a guy named Janusz Kaminski who did Saving Private Ryan and Schindler's List. So like, just talking to him all day was like awesome.

The reason I asked the question is because you say this is the one thing I love, comedy's the one thing I love. But if an alternate Neil had liked film students more and had just chosen the path of, traditional learning of film. I'm gonna be a director. I'm not— I am gonna be a director and only a director. That's what I'm gonna chase. You may love that the same way. No, if that's what you had, maybe that kind of great at the way you are at comedy.

Yeah, but I think maybe I— there was it, but it's so much, it's just getting movies made, just going and schmoozing and script and a— it's just not— it's so slow and there's so many things mitigating factors that are not the quality of the material that I just find it kind of deadening. In the times that I was like a screenwriter-director, it's just like, ugh. Whenever I was doing it, I was like, I should just do stand-up. That's generally what led to it, 'cause you'd go to meetings and they kind of like talk down to you and be like, I'm pretty sure I'm funny, so that's why, literally, One of the reasons to do stand-up.

How many shows a year are you doing?

I mean, right now in New York I'm doing 3 spots a night, so that's 20 a week. You figure that out, what's that?

Well, but I felt like the one night—

But that's 1,000, I think.

The one night that Valerie and I came out to dinner with you out here, I really did feel like it was something out of slow-motion walking Reservoir Dogs or Swingers, whatever the scenes are where— Yeah. Or no, Goodfellas, like walking through a kitchen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, with Coppola, yeah. The way that you got from dinner to on the stage to do your set was done with such surgical precision in like 20 minutes of walking through and getting in and out that it made me think that, oh, he's doing that 200 times. He's doing that 200—

1,000, I think I just did the math. 21 times a week. 52, eh? I think that's 1,000.

So you're doing how many?

I'm doing 3 spots a night at the Cellars. So like, that's 20, I mean, when I'm in New York. So that's 1,000 spots.

And it's just—

You'd think I'd be better, but yeah, it's 1,000 spots.

1,092. So it's just sharp. It's just to sharpen it.

Earpiece Johnson over here.

You wish you had this. You could have done the math.

Fuck.

Earpiece Johnson is what you call me?

Yeah, that's true.

Scoop.

AKA Scoops.

Scoops here. I try to help you.

No, thank you. You don't help me.

It's not—

You were searching around.

People got the point. Searching around.

It was around about— I could have done the 2 times. I could have done one, the one 1060. I could have got there.

That's crazy.

Well, yeah, but I don't have— Jan, I don't have anything else to do. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care about anything else.

But that's what greatness takes.

Yes, it— and again, it sounds like it's a sacrifice If I can bring my very good friend Kevin Durant up again, who I've never met, it's, he does not care about anything else.

We're gonna put on the episode, Neil Brennan, I'm the Kevin Durant of comedy.

I mean, people would love that. I mean, there are similarities, by the way, but anyhow.

I just don't think people understand the amount, same build says the earpiece. The earpiece says.

Well, I have what's known in the business as, I'm gonna clear the mic, pippin. Pippen face. Scottie Pippen face. Long nose, gaunt, sad, bin Laden-ish eyes. Do it. Do a side by side by side, would you?

Yes, please. Let's do it.

Let's go. Me. Let's do that. Pippen. Bin Laden. While we're here and we're talking NBA, Ronaldo Balkman, throw him up. He was the bin Laden, most bin Laden looking motherfucker in the history of the league. Don't tell me I don't understand the NBA. Don't you tell me for one second.

You love the NBA. You not only understand the NBA, you love the NBA.

I don't, I, it's getting to the point where there's a point where you just, there's a point in my life where I stopped caring about the MTV Real World and it's getting that way with the NBA where I'm like, where I'm like, eh.

Okay, you used to love the NBA. Back when you cared about the silly things.

I can't care about Shea Gills. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, whatever.

SGA, they call him.

I'm not gonna say it. Again, these new kids. I like Victor Wembanyama as a guy. I like him as a— As a citizen of the world. I like him as like, I don't know if he's bullshit deep or actually deep.

Well, he's trying to be deep at 22. He's trying to be about the right things. That seems obvious.

Yeah, so, you know, going to play chess, that old stunt.

How do you think your dog would behave around him?

I mean, my dog would euthanize himself. I have my dog carry a cyanide capsule in his cheek in case he runs into him.

You were so right about Shaq. Like, it's not just that. Like, Robin and Brooke Lopez, if they wandered out of the wilderness—

You're literally like, what?

What?

Barkley's bigger than I thought. Like, when you see him, you're like, How could anyone think they could guard that person?

No, well, but the Barkley thing that's funny is that he's smaller than the rest of them, but his ass is where my shoulders are.

I totally agree.

Like, that's a really unusual body type.

Yep. Similarly, one time, Trevor Noah has a very high butt, and I said, there are two friends of his from Africa who wrote for The Daily Show, and I was like, Trevor's got a high butt, right? And they go, he's from a high butt tribe. It's like, guys, I'm— I don't think I can say that, but, but I don't understand it, but I'm going to take your word for it.

What a great, uh, honor for Trevor Noah.

What a great way to get canceled, talking about Trevor Noah.

You assigned it all to him. No, you put it all on him and his family.

You got into the eugenics stuff. I was just talking about—

I didn't do that. I did not do any of that. I did not do any Jimmy the Greek. He made you his last guest, Trevor Noah, and he did it on purpose.

And he did it on purpose. Well, I wish I'd— he— we try— I don't like winging it, so it wasn't a great segment. But, but Trevor's a great guy and a good— he's a good, uh, we support each other nicely.

The honor of that is what I was going to ask you about as a friend.

Oh yeah, I just wish I'd been better. And then they— that whatever, it was too long a segment, whatever. It had a lot of problems. But as a friend, I appreciate it, and it's not something either one of us think about at all.

You saw what I just did though, right? I'm pointing out to you what a loving thing, what an act of genuine generosity, and all you're noticing is I failed, didn't go to 102.

It wasn't that good. No, it's not like—

that's why I'm talking about the honor of the relationship is what I was asking. Yeah, I was asking you about The idea that he would make you a last guest. Look, nobody has any earthly understanding how hard it was for him to be following that at The Daily Show.

And, and all with that, but no less, go ahead.

All of it. For him to make you the last guest is, it's an act of both love and honor because you're sitting here talking about the failure in it. I'm talking about the beauty in it.

No. Yeah, it was. Trevor's a good Trevor. I— Trevor will come to my funeral, and I will go to his funeral. That's kind of my new metric. Like, will this person come to my funeral, and will I go to theirs? Will I drop what I'm doing and go to theirs? And Trevor— Trevor Noah, congratulations. I'm coming to your funeral.

That's the highest honor you can give, isn't it?

That's my Daily Show final guest.

Higher than Trevor Noah's butt. That's the highest honor.

Higher than, to quote Quincy Jones, higher than giraffe pussy. That's Quincy Jones, said it to his daughter. God bless.

How would you make what we did here today better? Because I want to find the quote that I read poorly to you when I felt like I didn't do Charlie Rose very well on reading to you.

You want notes?

Yes, I'd like some notes. I do want notes right now. I have a note.

I look, I have a note. This is an overall note. This is an overall— let me get my files out, my lay-betard files. Here's the only thing that I think I'm— that thing that makes me any good at interviewing is I'm gossipy. Not gossipy like, you know, kiki. I mean, got to be like, I'm willing to ask a slightly uncomfortable question. And I'm nosy.

Oh, but I didn't want to do that to you because we're friends, because I know—

No, no, but I don't, but it's still, we're still, there's still, people still have to take their time. So like, ask me about Dave. I'm kidding. No, people still got to take their time. So it's got, there's got to be something. There's got to be a point.

Oh, but no, but you have all the stories, but Neil, I'm not here. I don't want to use you that transactionally when I've got—

I don't, but again, I don't, I don't, it's gotta be what would, do you wanna know? That's gotta be the impetus for any relationship. I think as a journalist, I think the difference between new media and old media is old media is more, there are more parameters. There are more like— I have rules, rules, all sorts of rules. Yeah, yeah, rules, rules, rules, right? Unwritten.

Not even unwritten and written.

Well written, legally written, but I'm saying, The difference is that the new media is like, they don't really care about losing their credentials, losing the respect of the subject.

Okay, but Neil, I could sit here and ask, I could throw you 10 lobs on interesting celebrity things you could say, and all of them would be unfair to do to you. Things that I know that people would like to gossip about, it would not be fair to be like, sit here.

I think the thing, whenever, Occasionally, every couple months I'll accidentally look at comments. You wanna talk about addiction? Yeah, don't do that. But, and it's always like, "Let the guest talk," and it's like, they don't understand what an interview is, which is like, I have things I want to know. And if the person's veering off into something I don't wanna know, I think it's, well, I think it's within my, interest, power, whatever, to go like, yeah, but, or like, it's your show, and re-guide them.

But your barometer, it's interesting that you say that because what you're saying is that while I'm in it, I have a barometer for how it is to make this better as we're going because your, what's interesting to me is what's going to be interesting. My barometer is good there.

Yeah. Yes and no. Like I, like, yes, mostly, but I, I'm wrong all the time. But there are times where I'm like, somebody will be talking. I'm like, I'm like, oh, this is so interesting. So interesting.

I don't think you'd be wrong there very often. I think you'd have a good antenna for what is interesting or what's not interesting to others. I'm not even talking—

There's just stuff I'm more interested in than other people are. But like, it's probably you with process stuff where you wanna know. But the, do you have a pro— why are you interested in process other than, like, are you a hard, are you diligent?

This is a looser form format, and I'm not the way that you are obsessive-compulsive about anything but writing, right? I don't go back and re-examine these things on what it is I could have done.

Do you write anymore?

Uh, I've— I got locked up there. It's a long story, and I'm doing some of the stuff, you know, vibration work, some of the stuff to get out of me where my blocks are on writing, because it's the most fulfilling thing I do.

But it's— I don't mean it in a way of like I just mean like it's not—

I'm super self-conscious about the fact that I'm not writing because I think it's the thing that I do best, but it's also the hardest for me to do because it's a suffering and I've chosen some things in life that no longer feel like suffering. So I should have just said no. I should have said, do you write right now? No, is what I should have said.

I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about like, does Kornheiser and Wilbon?

I mean, like, no, it just became the thing of like, No, all of us give in to the cotton candy.

Yeah.

The vanities, all of us did.

I could argue about what's cotton candy and what's like—

I thought the writing was more noble.

Yeah, I'm with you, but if no one's— it's like smaller audience and like, "Ooh, look at the wordsmiths." Like, it's a bit medieval times.

So I do want "Though This" to get better, and the way that I originally imagined this because I can talk to you for hours, and I think it would be interesting for hours because you're interested.

We're going to eat after this.

You have— you're just interesting. You're an interesting person.

Behind the Patreon, we're going to eat.

We are very healthy. We're going to eat.

We're going to eat for you. Guy goes to a vegan place, so there's nothing but fried food. It's fine.

This is an outright betrayal.

People were going to show up. You realize how much people— people were counting on you for your health tips. And here I've exposed you.

You have, in an act of betrayal. But when I'm asking you for notes, uh, and legitimately, and you're saying, well, make it more interesting to others by asking me—

I can tell you my biggest note anytime I watch the YouTube. You, you talk in paragraphs. Talk in a sentence. You talk like a guy who had a column. You talk like a guy who got paid by the word.

So ask questions more quickly? Yeah.

It's the, you're literally like, it's too much, it's too much like what we call in directing, shoe leather. It's like too much, I gotta, it's a fuck, and then you wanna walk and then you're gonna come over here and just like, what are you trying to, get in late, leave early, that's the directing thing.

So I didn't realize though that you were giving me notes on the entire show.

Yeah, I know no one knows until it's too late.

I thought you were giving me notes on what we'd just done. And so that's why I'm saying, why would I go gossip with you?

No, no. Oh yeah, I get that. But I'm saying my overall note is shorten your questions.

It's a good note. Yeah.

Thank you. Got a thumbs up. I don't know if you saw it from your producers, but by the way, I feel like this at lunch when, or dinner is like, you talk like a like someone's— it's your, you're covering your ass in the, in conversation of like, furthermore, and having said that, and oh, so you're saying, right, so you're saying, I'm saying your word shit, like it's not even good thoughts, it's not even— it's fine, it's— but it's more about you than me. It's more about you wanting to be It's a mistake I make in standup, and me and Dave used to make fun of each other in sketches. If a sketch didn't work, we'd look at each other and go, very smart sketch. No laughs, but man, really smart. It's solving for the wrong thing, which is I'm trying to show that I'm smart instead of just like being smart. And I'm, or just, it's the same thing with like writing versus video. If no one's reading, Who were you doing this for? It's, I used to, me and, I used to talk with Mike Schur about it. Like, I don't want to be nobly bomb.

I'm not trying to bomb nobly and like, man, we went down with that fucking wordy ass fucking premise heavy ship. You know what I mean? So like, or Chappelle used to say, if I pitched a sketch, he goes, what the fuck am I going to do in this?

This.

Like, yeah, and then it's a satire. How am I gonna get a laugh? How am I gonna say something or do something that gets a laugh quickly? So, so that would be my— it's not even a knock, but if we were doing— you open yourself up to a note session.

I requested, I invited you, I invited you here for it.

This is normally $40 an hour. Um, when I work with the greats. Um, uh, no, so just, I would just say shorten, shorten your, just, it's, you, it's a paragraph.

I literally, I got it. Yeah, you don't have to repeat it.

Do you know what I'm talking about?

Yes, yes, I've lived it. Yes, I do know what you're talking about.

You're inside it.

But I thought, I legitimately thought that in this venue my questions were shorter.

They were, and I also cut you off when they weren't. You're welcome.

Well, it's because we're in your bedroom.

This is your—

this is your home's home stadium, man.

You want to talk about a home field advantage?

You did the interview with comedians here before I did. I'm coming in here and just picking up your leftovers.

I, by the way, I'm still trying to get a kickback for you guys using— because Pablo uses the studio too. I'm still waiting for my kickback.

A kickback? You need a kickback?

I don't— I mean, who needs a kickback?

A kickback.

Tribute.

Can we pour some money into?

You have no idea the amount of arguments I've had with the people who own the studio about this. In fact, give me this money that you're asking for.

Can we do something back here?

Hey, I'm an 8th grader. Tell me you're in 8th grade without telling me you're in 8th grade by this back, this pair. I mean, I've sent them sketches. I've sent them AI renderings of possibilities.

So the answer to your question when you say, are you meticulous? I can imagine. All of the ways that you would think about a thousand things here about how to make any of this better. And I've thought of none of them because you're a producer, a director, and you're— and you take great pride in whatever it is that you're making, that it has your attention to detail.

It's— I look, this will be my 90th name drop on this. Eddie Murphy told Chris Rock, if you don't move on stage, people don't even need to look at you. It's a visual medium. It's not radio. It's lit. And I don't say that like it's not right. I mean it like, because I don't think about radio. No one's even thinking about it. But I'm saying it's not just audio. So it's like, ah, but the guys who— the guy— the guys that isn't— and I'm like, I'm telling you, just make it better. They're like, what about AstroTurf cubes? Fucking idiot. Give me something else. And it's been 3 years and they haven't. Which just really speaks to my level of influence.

Can we roll my brother's art through here or something? Even if it was just— you wouldn't care.

I'd— some— if whenever I'm in, I just stay out of the wide shot. And when I do, I have them put a super of the word blocks over it. And it doesn't work, but it's not— it's— it could be worse.

Uh, who would you say you've learned the most from? Because you're— yeah, for those who do not know, you've worked with almost everyone, and they've all, it seems like to me, knighted you as one of the greats, as because you care about it this way and because they speak the the language of knowing what it is to care about something that way. Almost every comedian who's any good would say, yeah, he's a comedian's comedian. He does it correctly. Without— even people who might not like you wouldn't say he doesn't know how to do that craft. Where have you learned the most? I didn't learn anything from what it is you just taught me as a note.

But admitting you have a problem— well, walk me through why you asked it that way.

To praise you in it. So, right, people—

why though?

So that people would have— if they don't know who you already are, they would know a little bit more about who you actually are. Yeah, but I don't think that's a known thing.

If people still don't know, it's like, then I don't deserve to be known. Like, if you still don't know, like, if you're still not aware, then shame on me. But the— learn— I mean, it's the thing about learn— no one's ever teaching. Right? No one's ever gonna like, although Chappelle Wood had fucking like tips about performing. I was literally thinking about it today. Like sociologically, like if you think he's a great comedian, he's actually sociologically better than he is a comedian, which is hard to, we'll say impossible. But, um, the, it's, I've learned the most from Dave in that It's the thing I would say is Chappelle's thing is like, I'm just going to chain myself to the tree of quality. I'm chaining my— like, you're going to have to chop that if you think I'm putting out bullshit. It— that we would just— it was like, we're not going to do the show if it's not going to be good. So, so that's the biggest thing. He was doing it more from I actually don't even know why. Like, he just is like, no, it has to be the thing that I— that in my head.

And with me, it's like, it has to be the thing in my head, but also I have to work really hard. He can have it be the thing in his head and it's like, no planning, no anything. Just like, ah, yeah, I'll show up. Like Black Bush, the sketch we did in the second season. I like didn't support him on it, 'cause I just thought it was like not enough of a premise. But he's like, "No, I'll just do shit George Bush did." And I'm like, "Huh?" And then we do it, and I'm like, "Oh, I was so wrong, 'cause he's so naturally funny." So, I've learned the most from him in like, in, but it's all like the way you learn from a parent or something. It's just, it's not taught, it's just like embodied. It's osmosis.

What have you learned from Chris Rock?

A lot, but I don't really know exactly how— what to say. But Chris, that Eddie story is like, I mean, you know, right there. It's like, so that's like That's why he paces. That's why I've told people, you gotta move more on stage. If you don't, if you're not moving on stage, I need to move the camera to make it more dynamic, 'cause otherwise it's just radio. But that's, Chris has got 70 of those and I can't remember any of 'em. But yeah, just observations on race and gender and just like endlessly.

Seinfeld?

Jerry's a— Jerry, I would say I've— he's the guy I called with the bonsai observation. I was like, hey, I agree. I've come around to your philosophies. And he was like, and he called me, he's like, tell me about the philosophies. And I was like, I don't. And he was like, mm-hmm. Just like, yeah, like it doesn't, he doesn't care about anything else. He watches every frame of Comedians in Cars. People are like, "Oh, I might go into the edit." Okay, there's a billionaire who's doing a show on Crackle. At one point, Comedians in Cars was on Crackle, and he's watching every frame of a thing he lived and is editing because, to have him say it, there are things that only we can do that we know that we need to the, it's just not, that's, so he's a, he's a, he's a worker, you know what I mean? Like, and Chris is a worker too. Like Chris is a real, like goes to soundcheck, goes, Dave doesn't. That's a great example of like, Dave's like, ah, he's like soundcheck, just turn me up loud.

You know what I mean?

Whereas Chris is like, has to, I'm the same. I'm like Chris in that, like, I gotta worry about what's the edge of the stage.

I don't wanna, Well, that's probably the link between you and these two guys who are legitimate friends, I would imagine, is because they speak exactly the same language there that you are speaking. You're speaking of Chappelle as if like you don't even understand. How does somebody just walk in smoking a cigarette and not care about the sound?

Yeah, because he's so gifted it doesn't matter. Sound, I don't know, I'll just yell. He's like that, literally that gifted, that he's just like— and I'm like, I'm coming from a point of approach of like, I'm not— I'm a little gifted, but I have to get— I really have to like oil and, you know, pump the—

you think of yourself as a grinder.

Yeah, I know I am. I just— that's— I— it's— that's—

that's the only way to get get 20 seconds of material.

The last 6 months has been dreadful. Fucking eating shit half the time. So, so like, yeah, but like now I'm, I have enough jokes and I'm like, okay.

Letterman?

Letterman, I don't know all that well, but he's really gifted and really an incredible broadcaster. And, and and is, I think he likes showbiz more than he let on. That's my observation about him. It's like he really, he likes knowing, and Kevin Nealon said he saw him over vacation and he was like, "You know what joke of yours I like?" Like an old joke that he, by the way, it wasn't even Kevin's joke, but like, he's like, "I like that joke and I like," so like, Letterman's a, is more, he's, it's invisible, but he's really. Jon Stewart's, you probably weren't gonna bring him up, but Jon's got the, maybe the best computer. The computer is like a, like lit up machine, and then he's just such a good broadcaster that it's like, you don't see it. You don't see him working at all.

And people underestimate that one. Costas is like that. Costas is like that. Dan Patrick is like that. Yeah, where you don't have any earthly idea how hard it is to look like you do television that easily.

Oh yeah, yeah, there are guys that are— that are— that are— Trevor, similar to— whereas Trevor could synthesize, you know, so much.

But it's only because the prep on the front end that's not seen is what gets— like, we're not talking about anybody who's pre-naturally gifted. You mentioned Chappelle, but none of these all of these others are working at it.

Yeah, but they're guys that Trevor is really like, I mean, he would get there at 9:30, the show's at 6:00, and it's like, there's no show at 9:30. So that, and he would do it, so it would, you know, it's amazing.

Has there been somebody whose work ethic has awed you? Is there anybody that you have looked at and been even taken aback because they're even they're even further than you are.

I remember on Chris— on Rock's movie Top Five, I worked a little bit on it, and he said— Scott Rudin, the producer, he's like, you know, he go— he— Scott Rudin would be on set for 12 hours, and then Rock's like, you know, he goes to a theater to watch dailies at the end of the day. And I was— and I literally go, I don't want it that bad. Rock's like, yeah, I don't want it that bad. So like, that's— but again, Scott Rudin single focus, just which is what anything, you know, any of these guys, any, any of these women get a Nikki, like Nikki, I would think is, is pretty, doesn't care which she's doing the, doing, doing the, the Golden Globes. Like there's no, there's no, I, and I'd heard the monolog was great 3 weeks before it came out. Like, you're like Nikki's monologs, right? Like, because she's doing it at the clubs, like practicing, practicing, practicing, practicing. And all those people are so used to just like, I'm pretty. They don't understand, like, that's— she's— this is not an accident. Nothing's an accident, like, in terms of anything excellent.

Not in— certainly not at the top of comedy where you reside.

Top of anything.

But there's not— but specifically how competitive it is where you reside in comedy, there's no one who's just going to get on stage and be good enough to make it up there. Like, that's not a thing that can exist. All of it requires a remarkable honing that no one has any idea about, like, other than— like, you guys all speak the same language, but people watching—

but it's like anything. It's all the jokes I did on the Crazy Good special. Like, just, they don't care. It's all psychopath. I mean, it's psychopaths implies that there's that they're harming people. Sometimes they are, but like, mostly they're just maybe a bad partner, husband, wife, whatever. But Tiger Woods doesn't have a lot of interests outside of golf other than Navy SEAL stuff and prostitutes.

Yeah, that's an excellent note. Blocks is the name of the podcast. It's exceptional, and it needs work on the background. He's right about that. But he gets under the hood, he gets in there good, and he's a great interviewer. Reviewer. Thank you, Neil.

Thank you, buddy. How do you feel?

I love you.

Great. Do you feel chastened by my notes?

No, I asked for it. I welcomed it. They are urging me, and this has been a bit of a struggle. I want this thing to grow the way that I grow. It has been a bit of a struggle to be vulnerable here. I'm asking all of the questions, right? It's an excellent way to deflect intimacy. If I'm asking all the questions, we tell everybody who comes in here, make it a conversation. We want to go back and forth, but I'm pretty good at just like drowning somebody in questions so that it doesn't actually get back into the soft spaces with me.

But I also, yeah, I think the lengthy question is the same thing. It's a defense mechanism to like, hey, it's, I'd say whenever there's a, every review of any movie, TV, standup, whatever, there's always a paragraph that I call the "I ain't no bitch" paragraph where it's like, don't get me wrong. It's not, this is not Paul Thomas Anderson. This is no Magnolia. Don't get me wrong. Brennan's had better. Don't get me, I ain't no bitch. So that's the, the, uh, that you doing the I ain't no bitch setup question. I'm not dumb. I know, listen to how historically aware I am.

It's funny though that you would be so delicate in offering me the note. It's unnecessarily delicate because—

I'm not gonna bum rush people.

But I'm saying like, you would think that I would be sensitive to your criticisms?

Yeah, everybody's sensitive to criticism. It's like when people go like, I love criticism.

But I'm asking for it though. I'm request—

I brought you here under the premise of help me make this be better at this. I scoped it out.

But I invited you here under the premise of help me be better at this.

You're a good producer. You're a good collaborator. I agree, but again, people think it's like I love— it's do I look fat in this dress? It's like, they're not looking for real constructive feedback.

I'm scared to look at how I look at the side here.

How do I—

do I look fat Shirt?

Uh, the shirt, the bottom of that shirt is not doing you any favors.

That's not helping.

And also your feet position in the airpiece. Stay out of the way. I mean, you should— don't be in this terrible angle. Don't be in this, this— why did you do this to me? This interrogation room-ass background. This interrogation-ass room and a beehive.

I'm wearing yellow. I will never wear yellow again.

Yellow's not bad, but this, this squat—

yeah, and you're skinny though. You're skinny. And look next to me, please.

And then this is separated. This thing split You look like a yellow Shrek.

This is embarrassing.

It's on you. Guys, the podcast is called the South Beach—

Blocks is the name of his podcast. It's exceptional. He interviews comedians better than I do and thinks I'm going to be sensitive.

But man, do I give a long setup in a question. I like to do a 90-second furthermore, I ain't no bitch. Here he's coming over.