Transcript of Hour 1: HOW DO WE GET ALL THREE?

This is the Dan Levatore Show with the Stugats podcast.

What's going to happen with Ja Morant? Now, the Grizzlies have all of their picks, and if the Heat are the only team on the market looking for Ja Morant, the question becomes, will Memphis eventually be able to be willing to give up one of their picks to Miami? Because if the Heat can acquire one of those picks in a trade for Ja Morant, potentially Eventually, they can use that pick to package with that 2030 and 2030 pick for Yannis Antetokounmpo. Did you hear what he said, though? And then you can add Ja Morant and Yannis Antetokounmpo.

You guys aren't going to be like this till next Thursday, are you? You're going to be like this till next Thursday when the only thing that's going to be traded at the deadline is again, George Hill.

That was a big piece at the time.

Is he even still in the league? It's always a big piece. No, it can't be. I think somebody put it on the poll at Levitard show. Is somebody going to trade for George Hill next week?

It's a guaranteed loss in Eastern Finals. I think I'd like the heat to trade for George Hill at this point.

George Hill is no longer in the league. Lebron James, an expiring contract at $52 million. Now, there was a report today that the Cavs would be welcoming him back with open arms. But if they did, that was probably going to be in the off season because of the salaries and where they're at. Deandre Hunter, Jared Allen, maybe potentially more in exchange for LeBron James. But where else could LeBron want to go? Could he want a reunion with the Miami Heat?

Dan, you just missed it.

You just missed it. Zazlo put a poll on his Twitter account yesterday. What is most ridiculous? Shadr is a pro bowler. Belichick's not a Hall of Famer. Lebron did not influence the Lakers drafting Bronnie. The winner was LeBron. The winner of Zaz's poll was LeBron.

It is the most ridiculous and not believable. Lebron didn't influence the Lakers to draft Bronnie James. When Rich Paul- LeBron James is here at $52 million.

Now, what potential money could the Lakers want to take on? Could Andrew Wiggens be a piece that they would want? Now, he would complement Luka Donch pretty well. Kala Wey, obviously, as a young guy on a contract, he's a great lob threat for Luka Donch. So he might be a potential opportunity.

Rich Paul publicly threatening teams. You better not draft Brawny. He will go play overseas. Rich Paul, I don't know if you're aware, LeBron's agent. No communication here, apparently, between LeBron and the Lakers. Lebron actually wants people to believe- Rich Paul is that if Giannis Antetokounmpo is a piece here and then becomes repped by Rich Paul, does that benefit LeBron James more?

Does that benefit potentially the Miami heat as they've had a reunion? Then there's Anthony Davis. That's a big question. Could he end up in Toronto? It's just like nonstop lies is what it is.

How does LeBron expect anyone to believe he has not influenced the Lakers to draft Bronnie James? And when the report comes out, how do you even utter that report? How do you expect anyone to believe that when those words come- The Sacramento Kings, because DeMontis Sabonis is another guy that's been rumored to be wanted by Toronto.

But where does that money go? Demar DeRosen. Now, he's a big guy. He's that downhill threat we spoke about potentially for the Warriors. Who do they move over to Sacramento? Could that be Jonathan Kamiga? But then there's Buddy Heald. He's got 9. 0 million, 9. 6 next year, $10 million player option. Where the hell is Roy? You can move him over here. And the Blazers. That's the interesting piece. Drew holiday. How do you get LeBron James, Giannis, and Ja? That's going to be pretty difficult because your entire salary will be gone. I know how to get them back.

If you want to know. I know how to get them back. Don't just fade it down. Guys, I'm going to talk football.

They're going to talk football.

Hey, I'm going to I'm going to talk football. I'm going to talk football with you guys.

No, they don't care about that. If you wanted to move Andrew Wiggens, potentially, over to the Lakers in exchange for LeBron James and say it was either Fontechio or Rozier is expiring salary for them, then you You could- Is it possible that LeBron...

Okay, follow me here. Is it possible that LeBron says that he didn't ask the Lakers to draft Bronnie because he's distancing himself from his son so that if he gets traded, he doesn't have to bring Bronnie with him? Maybe he's trying to distance himself.

James says, I want to go to Miami. You move LeBron for Wiggins and Rozier. Expiring contracts, Wiggins can be the complement. You could potentially acquire a pick from the Lakers as they You have all of these picks here. You can get it in 2031. They're going to be bad by then. You get him. You potentially get John Morant for expiring money in a pick. Maybe that's Norman Powell. Maybe you add Hamehaka as a potential asset, but see if you can get a pick sent from Memphis. You take those two picks that you just acquired from the Lakers and the Grizzlies. You package them with the two pics you have here. You take Kala, wear and whatever money you have left over. You send it for-Oh, my God, Braun, you demanded a trade from the Lakers.

You wouldn't even make your son come with you? No, no, no. It was not my idea for Bronnie to come to Lakers. I never I told them to. I don't care about Bronnie coming with me. Never my idea. How about that? How about that?

Karl-anthony Towns is a fascinating piece in all of this because I don't know if the Blazers want him, but the rumors are that the Knicks want Drew holiday. Now, why would they want Drew holiday? What has Yannis been saying recently? He's been saying that he wants to play with his old teammates. So if the Knicks can potentially swing a deal for Drew holiday, he's sitting here at $32 million, Katz at 50, and you have Yannis is 54. So how do the numbers work here? Will you potentially send Kat to Milwaukee?

All right, enough of this. Enough. I'm done with this. Stop. If they don't want to come back, it's fine. You guys can come back next Friday after the trade deadline, after the only thing that's been traded is George Hill. Every year we do this. Every year it's the same thing, and the trade deadline comes and goes, and there's never a giant trade.

In all seriousness, I don't know if you're able to tell, now I'm being really serious. In all seriousness, the Miami Heat are in these conversations every single year. This one is shaping up to be the Wackiest of delusions. We're talking about the heat acquiring Ja Morant and LeBron James and Giannis Antetokounmpo all at the same time.

That's correct. That's how the heat always do it every year. I've been around in all the times where it is that somebody's trying to trade Michael Jordan for Alan Og because the heat don't want to give anything away in order to get the best player. I've been doing that show in some form, been listening to those fans for for many, many years.

Look, I don't want to break the fourth rail here, but I'm kidding about all three of them potentially being here.

What a disappointment. No. Get out of here. I mean, what are you doing? What are you doing?

Minor penalty, two minutes for explaining the show.

Get out of here.

The fourth rail callback.

I know. Get out of here.

That was a good call by him, though.

The thing that I wanted to ask you guys about football, because I thought, and I know that it's later in the week, but I thought that that Ram Seahawks game was so seismic in terms of the number of things being decided by nothing, by just whispers and inches and nonsense. So two of the things that I wanted to recall that we did not talk very much about. So Wreke Wullen, I believe his first name is actually Tarek, and it's shortened Tarek, and I would have no confusion about that if the Seahawks had lost. Because if the Seahawks had lost, Wullen would have gone down as one of the all-time goats on doing something dumb because when the score was 31-20 and they finally got the Rams to punt and they were going to get the ball back and the game was going to be decided, the next play with cutthroat cruelty of that sport because they knew he was emotional, they knew he was going to be heightened, the next play, the Rams in 25 seconds said, No, no, no, we target him in the corner with our best player. Go now, now, now. You think it's true?

Oh, for sure it's true. For sure it's true that they know in those instances how to do that surgically. I've heard Chris Sims talk about this. They know that player was emotional, go get him. Go attack him because this is a weakened player. And this is like the wild, man, in terms of when someone's weakened, you smell the blood and you go attack that. So that's a name that we would know historically historically for all time with blunders if the result had been different. But the thing that I wanted to put in front of you guys conversationally is, when exactly and how exactly did football get to the point where we were all good with the unsportsmanlike. We talk about penalties all the time. This wasn't a pass interference. Everybody was good with, Yep, that's taunting, and you can't call that there. Everybody was good with, What an idiot, but nobody was saying, Why Why are you calling a taunting of a bench in a game this important with this many important things? That is what you're going to do to decide it. You're going to enforce the rules. And so whether you object or agree with what I'm saying, it doesn't matter.

Fine. You believe in sportsmanship. When did it change so much, though, that the consensus was, yeah, dumb guy, and not, you can't call that there. That guy's just talking to people on the sidelines. You can't be that interested in sportsmanship that you're going to decide this game and that guy's reputation for decades after this with that call in that spot.

I feel like it's implied, though. I feel like the more egregious thing from a fan perspective is, don't allow the official to do the shitty call. I think that is the overriding point.

I'm not confused about why they called it. I'm talking about the shift that everyone's come over to repressions on sportsmanship where they've scrubbed out of the game the talking so much that something that would be the most The normal thing in the NBA is about to decide who's going to the Super Bowl because a guy gets emotional and wants to say to the sideline, eat this.

It's going back to the NFL being the no fun league. Remember when you couldn't do dances, you couldn't do celebrations, you couldn't do any of these things. These refs are just turned into robots of, I see a call, I make a call. There's no context or timing.

But, Tony, it's not the refs. It's they brainwashed the audience, too, because no one was... Everyone pounced on the guy, and I heard very few people wondering, How do you call that in that spot in this game? How is it that the referee who doesn't want to make himself the call at the end of one of these games because he doesn't want to be responsible for deciding it, how do you not keep that flag in your pocket because a guy's woofing at a sideline? I don't know how it is that the league has been able to actually scrub all of us? I get how they've taught the refs. How is it that the rest of us are such sheep on this one? I don't think it's a matter of being a sheep. I looked at that play a couple of times on replay, and what I noticed was that the player who was flagged actually steps over the line into the bench area of the other team. That's pretty egregious. Did he do that? Because I thought he was still on the field. I don't think he crossed the sideline. He was close to them.

I believe he did. Okay, but in the NBA, guys are closer all the time to the bench, talking trash, to the bench all the time in the NBA. Step over the sideline and woof at the sideline. I don't know how it is that this has become so normalized in the last few years that we've gone from Terrell Owens runs on the field with a Sharpie in his to you can't woof at a sideline. We're going to decide who goes to the Super Bowl based on this.

Then do it to Steph Curry when he shoots a shot from the corner with his back, literally on the bench of the other team. Before it goes through the net, he turns around and looks at everybody while the ball goes through the net and then runs to the other side. We're talking about the same thing. I'm showing you I did a great play.

What an effective league at scrubbing the personality out of the sport and also brainwashing its customers without us even even noticing that they've done it because everyone pounced on Wullen and I didn't see anyone pouncing at a referee when what I want my judges to do is not enforce the letter of the law. Use your judgment, please, and have better judgment than I do.

How much does it have to do with us not knowing We would never know or remember the referee's name.

I think it has more to do with the fact that that league has successfully scrubbed the personality out of the sport because it is so interested in forcing rules and sportsmanship.

Unless there's a turnover, then you can run anywhere you want and do whatever dance you want to do with your whole team.

I think it's baked into the game. That is weird, isn't it? Composure and execution, those are things that help you along the way. Two years ago, Miami, the season essentially ended because Jacobi George, a dude that you were always worried about, decided to take a swipe at someone and hand his team a crucial penalty, and you learn from it.

Officials are taught not to regard the score or the time on the clock when they decide a penalty. Yeah, I want my judges to show judgment. Why they're judges. I don't think you're in the majority. That's fine. I prefer my judges to have interpretation. Man, I could teach AI to follow a letter of the law. Why don't I just replace all the officials? I could teach AI to follow a letter of the law. I want perspective, nuance, and a human being using judgment who's more qualified at judgment than I am.

Where's the line of when you don't make a call? There's eight minutes left in the fourth quarter. That's not close enough.

All I ask is that they're consistent, that if I can get a beat on what game we're going to have in the first quarter, that's going to play out through the rest. I thought the college football playoff was excellent in that regard, in that, okay, they're going to let these guys play. That's the game that we have to win out there. Fine. I like that each game takes a unique aspect, so I never want to eliminate that. All I want is consistency.

So the other thing that I wanted to ask you guys about the game is, and again, so many fascinating things about who's going to be remembered forever more as the best team in football in this sport over things that are being decided by fractions and nanoseconds. We all agree that Sean McVay, who knows what he's doing, is obviously brilliant. We were talking yesterday about the fact that as air traffic controllers, there's way too much that has to be processed in such a small amount of time. At the end of that game, what happened with that challenge and a timeout on a play where his guy on Precision Cooper Cup, McVay's guy, makes another third and 10 play by inches where all of us were watching. All of us, real-time, all of us didn't get it. That spot's no good. He did not get there. We're watching on television. It's a better angle, and we're watching it several times. Mcvay gets one shot at that. The smartest coach in the league or one of the smartest ones burns a time out because he doesn't know whether he should challenge or not in a moment where the guy who's the best at all the genius details isn't being accused of choking when they could have used that time out?

Now, I understand how it happened, obviously. That's Cooper Cupp. He taught him how to do that. Cooper Cupp gets those 10 yards because he knows exactly where it is that he's got to be. But How is Sean McVay supposed to process all of that in that moment? And why is he not being accused of choking when they needed that time out? They needed to stop that play from becoming a first down.

The interesting part of it, too, is that you see him mouthing to the officials, I get that time out back? Once he threw the flag, Do I get that time out back? And he's waiting, he's listening to probably 200 people in his ear saying, No, we don't get that back. Yeah, we get that back. And he's talking to the referees and he's like, Do I get it back? And they're like, No, you don't. And he's like, Oh, my God.

Can you imagine the situation? Let's think about all the things That's the thing that go into preparation. So Diana Rossini is telling us this week, yeah, these guys. Vrabel knows whether that official calls pass interference 16% more of the time than another official. So he'll try a deep pass in that situation because he knows that that official has more more leniency when it comes to making a call. If these guys are not meeting their family, seeing their families, because every day takes 20 hours that they've got to pour into, I've got to be slightly better than Vrabel this week. All of it comes down to, I've got to be able to see from the sideline whether Cooper Cupp, the guy I taught to do that, got those inches and my angle's worse than anybody else's in the place. Everybody watching on television has a better angle of this and gets to see it more time, gets to see it again. I'm just listening to voices in my head and I didn't have a good angle. How the hell should I know whether he made it or not. It was half a yard. I don't know.

To me, it's crazy.

But he has someone in his ear that is seeing the angle we're seeing.

No.

What do you mean?

There's somebody in his ear that's watching- Yeah, but there's a 30-second countdown clock.

It's really hard. You ever try to queue up a sound on our show? It's a process.

But here's the other part about it, Chris. You say that they're seeing the same things we are. They're doing it with a clock the way we're not. I watched it 10 times and still wasn't sure.

I know.

I went back I'm sitting there watching it, and they keep replaying, and I'm like, No, I don't think he made that. He was going down. How did he make that?

That's why he didn't-In that spot, if you're worried about the timeout, you just throw the flag. If you're going to call the timeout, you throw the flag, and then the timeout only leaves if you're wrong.

Yeah, it's easy for us to say. That's why it's not a choke job. It's hard. Anybody could see. I changed my mind three times on that replay. It was hard.

But if you ask him, he probably looks at that like, I screwed that up. I should have just thrown the flag. Why?

It's because you've had three days. He had 40 seconds.

It's all hard, Mike. Getting to the top of sports is hard.

It's all hard. Which is why I'm not saying he's a choker.

We all say everyone chokes all the time.

I don't think he choked in that moment. I don't think he choked in that moment.

But that's textbook's definition, choking. Not knowing how to use your time out is almost textbook definition of my mind melted.

If Mario did that, he would probably He got a lot of for it.

I think there are degrees not kneeling in that. That's super hard. I don't think that's textbook. If that were textbook, he'd probably handle it better.

But I don't actually think, though, that people are lending the nuance to say, I'm not calling him a choker because I know that was hard. I just think they're not calling him a choker because- That's a disease of man, honestly.

Come on. Everybody thought that was hard.

I think they're not calling him a choker because it's never something that we label a coach as, which I don't necessarily agree with. I think there's plenty of instances a coach can choke.

Making a brain fart mistake in a moment when you're the one responsible for the decisions is textbook definition choking, no matter how hard it I think that's too harsh. I think when the difference between a first down and not is an inch and you're- But, Greg, you can't lose the time out, though. Okay, that was a mistake.

No, but that- Yeah, you got to just throw the challenge flag because you're going to lose a time out anyways if you lose.

When you say that was a mistake, it's a mental mistake that cost the chance for the Rams by their coach to the Super Bowl. If we're going to be experts, as Bam out of bio says, if we're all going to be couch coaches, and Mike sitting here clamoring for- You have to understand the league also decides arbitrarily when they're going to inject themselves and say, You don't have to challenge this.

We're going to go ahead and do it.

I never know when you're allowed to challenge and when it's the referees who... I never know.

I've been saying this for months. Eye in the sky, slippery slope.

Yeah, it is because- He's saying it.

I don't know any of the rules of the game anymore.

He called the time out.

They can just sleep in whenever they want.

He called the time out to buy the league more time for them to decide something that was pretty obvious. So you could say Sean McVay choked, or you could say the league should have decided, let's replay that a lot sooner because it was a very close play as it unfolded.

Also, when he asked the referee, the referee had to ask another referee if he was going to be able to get that time out back. He's talking and thinking, he's like, Hey, does he get this back or not?

Too many rules. The system failed Sean McVay.

What's a catch?

Oh, so he's a victim instead of a token.

I do think so. I do think so. It was very obvious that was a close play, and the league decides, again, arbitrarily when they're going to review close plays on their own.

Did the league review the Bills' play, the interception? They didn't review that, right?

They're just going to make him use a challenge on something that we all agree is a close play. I can understand the hesitance there.

See, I give an accomplished coach the benefit of doubt in this case because McVay, as I imagine it, McVay's got somebody in his left ear saying, That's short of a first. Throw the flag. And you've got somebody in his right ear saying, No, no, no. Let's not waste that. That can't be. That's a first down.

He can't be getting mixed messages in his heads.

Why not? No, wait. So Diana Rossini did tell us earlier this week that Vrabel now has the guy, didn't she say, that McVeigh used to have for all of these circumstances in his ear. Mcveigh botched that because there are a lot of people in your head said... Guys, let me tell you something. One of the greatest joys of my life was when they finally opened the White Castle in my neighborhood in Phoenix, Arizona. I lost my mind because I'm so used to eating White Castle at home when I was in New York. Now I can have it all the time. I'm in Phoenix. But when I come to Miami, there's no White You know what I do? Go to the freezer aisle because right there, they got the variety pack with all the great White Castle flavor in there. You're getting a lot of Slider styles.

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Don Lebatard.

It sounds to me like everybody could use a hug because a hug is always the right size.

Stugatz. All I have put in my body today is three cups of coffee and an entire cup of honey. Don't let him fool you.

He said in the break that he's jittery.

This is the Dan Levatard show with the Stugatz.

Tony, do me the favor of doing... I want you to go bet the Castle, and I want you to go bet the Castle. I got a good one. Better than Zaz bet Bet the Castle last week. That's obvious, though. Yeah, because he took the nets plus 11. 5. Can't be worse. They lost by 60. So you get ready to bet the Castle. But I am actually here for what Mike Ryan just did, and I hope everyone in sports and sports radio and Sports Argument television follows me on this. I am here for analysis now taking in what it is Mike has suggested, which is anytime anything in sports happens that is questionable, someone wanders over and says, But it was hard. It was hard to get to that point. So you're saying, Mike, that after a 17-game season longer than any other, that basically decapitated all the 49ers, that the Rams, getting to the end of that season and watching Cooper Cupp, who used to get 2,000 yards for them as the second receiver for the Seahawks, convert the seventh, third, and long they had in the game by millimeters, and having Sean McVay have to decide with a worse angle than the rest of us with the Millions of people talking in his ears, telling him different things.

You're saying that was hard. Yes. And so he should be forgiven for a mistake.

And I should be commended for my bravery.

Let's apply that to all of sports all the time. Let's be consistent like you're asking referees to be. Anytime anyone in sports does something that's stupid, wrong, or a mistake, we should come over and discuss how hard it was to get to that point. Yes.

What? What's so ridiculous about this? Mario Cristobal should have known. That one was easy.

Then I agree.

That one was easy. Kit also didn't fumble, but that's besides the point. This one? Very hard. Oh, we have breaking NFL news. Interesting. Well, probably not that interesting. Cleveland Browns have made a hire. No way.

Someone said yes?

Someone said yes, and that someone was Todd Monken.

Oh, my God.

Really?

I'm a little surprised there. Wow. A little surprised there.

That's not a great name for enthusiasm. No, it isn't. That couldn't do less for me.

I'm not I'm actually seeing how this impacts Miami because he's got friends on the Miami staff.

Always running through that prism. It's important.

Trying to keep my OC.

I do think, though, that what I am doing there, just to be clear, that is not an indictment of- My daughter? Of Todd Munkin's resume. It is not an indictment in any way of his past or his coaching. I'm with you. It's just the name. That is not a name that will ever trigger enthusiasm, no matter what it is that you have said. Todd. It's not the Todd. Munkin.

I think it is Tommy Munkin. You think it's the Todd? Tommy Munchkin. And I'm like, All right, we got some energy.

Munchkin. That's the name. Okay, well done.

Tommy Munkin. I'm like, This is a young guy. He's probably a good offensive mind. Todd Munkin. I'm with you. The last name is not great either, but I just don't think Todd's good.

All right, let's go out to Tony. Tony is Betting the Castle. We are grateful for all our sponsors around here. Grateful for our new ones as well. And all of us love everything that White Castle stands for.

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Steamy bun. So good, dude. Yeah. So go ahead, Tommy. Go ahead, Toddie. Thanks. Go ahead and give us both your bet, which has to be better. Again, we debued, and I'm sorry, I want to publicly apologize to White Castle for this. The first time we did this, Zazlo said, take the nets at the Knicks plus 11. 5, and also Mike Brown is going to be fired soon. And the nets promptly scored 66 points in an NBA basketball game and lost by 54.

Like I said, you always got to buy the hook.

Okay. So he was saying you got to buy 40 points there. What was it? 43 points there. I had plus 55. Tony, what are you betting the Castle on?

Dana, well, I'm very excited because it's the first time I have White Castle burgers in a long time, and now we have them here in the studio. I'm going to put them in real quick, put them to cook, and then I'll give you my bet here. Bet in the Castle. Here we go. Put them in 60 seconds. Let it rip. Okay.

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I'm going to give you a couple of stats here, and then I'm going to give you the bet. So this is basketball All related. You've got a player that has 18. 8 points a game, six rebounds a game, 4 assists a game, shooting 28 % from three, and free throws shooting 80%, or a player who's got 18. 7 points per game, 5. 5 rebounds per game, 3. 6 per game, shooting 42 % from the three-point line and 90 % from the free throw line. Those are the two stats of Cooper Flag and Con Canipal. My bet to Castle is bet to Castle that Con Canipal is your rookie of the year over Cooper Flag. I know that's crazy. I know people are going to say, There's no way Cooper Flag is generational. If you look at what Con Canipal is doing for the Charlotte Hornets, you'll be very surprised. He's had a lot of really good games. True shooting percentage of 63, where Cooper's is more of like Four. Bet the Castle. Conniple is your rookie of the year.

That is a great one, actually, because you are telling the truth there. Conniple has been great for them, and Charlotte is a little bit better than they should be. Charlotte's fun, Dan. Charlotte's a fun team. Because of him, though, because it's not Ball. It's not ball, it's because of him. He is a very good player, and he's very good early.

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I'm going to open this up real quick.

I want to do this next week. I need to eat one of these things.

Save some of those for me. We all like the White Castle burgers around here. Nobody's got any complaints. You go ahead and take-Tasty. That's good work by you, Tony. Thank you. At least in part because you can't be proven immediately wrong by 50 points the way Zaz was. You just put it off in the distance and You can't embarrass yourself. Sprinkle it out there.

Hey, April, June, someone will figure it out. We'll win, we won't win. It doesn't matter. Whatever.

Well done. Excellently done.

I'm going to take a bite of this.

Here we go. Go ahead. Enjoy.

That's the good stuff. I'm going out there. I'm getting a bite, too.

No, don't take this.

Don't let it happen. Yes.

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Don Levatard. Is there a Back in My Day? There is, actually.

What? Were you not going to tell anyone?

Wait a minute. You guys. Guys, it's a Tuesday.

It's a Tuesday. Stugatz. Here's your guy, Greg Coty with Back in My Okay, here it is. Sorry.

Adultery. That is it. Yeah.

We are back.

We're waiting for this one.

This is the Dan Levatard Show with the Stugats.

I want to get to a little bit of sound here because a lot of us were talking during the Olympics, the position that Steve Kerr was in, where Halliburton wasn't going to play, and Jason Tateum. It was very controversial that Steve Kerr didn't play Jason Tateum at all in the Olympics. But it was funny to hear Halliburton on the Mind the Game podcast that LeBron does now. Who's he doing it with? Is it Steve Nash now? Yes, it is. Is that who he does it with now? Here's Tyrese Halliburton telling the story of how it is. You know how Matt Damon, the line in... Man, what is the name of the poker movie? Rounders. Rounders. Thank you. That Matt Damon says, If you don't know who the sucker is at the table, then the sucker is you in poker. Here is Halliburton looking around the Olympic room where Steve Kerr is telling people that somebody's not going to play, and Halliburton realizing, Wait a minute, is this me who's not going to play?

I have a great story. I've never told anybody this story before. We're at the Olympics Olympics.

We're in the back doing film before the Olympics start. And before it starts, it's like, All right, we're going to have the team meeting where we acknowledge that all 12 guys cannot play. Steve starts talking about how everybody can't play.

And Bron is talking about how in the '04 Olympics, I didn't really play that much.

And you got to put your pride aside.

It's about bigger than you. And Katie's over there like, At the end of the day, with 12 All-stars, everybody's good.

We're always trying to win, right? And I'm sitting there and I'm listening. I'm like, Yeah. And as we start film, I'm like, But who are they talking about? Who are they talking? And I'm looking around, I'm like, Oh, he didn't talk about him. He didn't talk about him.

I'm like, Oh, they're talking about me.

I was sitting there, I'm like, Oh, no. This is what it is. I was like, Oh. I was sitting there, I'm watching Phil. I can't even pay attention to Phil. So I'm like, Man, it's over. It's over, man. I get no PT out here. It's over. It really feels like the Pacers in the finals was seven million years ago because of how bad they are, just because he got hurt. So obviously, that Olympic team was great. He was not the only one hurt by not playing. Here's Jason Tatum on the pivot telling a similar story. I couldn't process. I couldn't understand.

Being first-team all-MBA, it's me and four of the guys in the world.

And at that time, the four of the guys was all European. So it was like, I was the only American.

Then you get to the Olympics, and it's like, I didn't plan to it in games.

It was hard to process. I've got some more Tatum sound here that I want to add to that because Tatum has given voice to the idea a couple of different times that he's not properly appreciated, not properly regarded by history, even though he's obviously a champion and an excellent player who has grown over the last few years before getting injured. Let's hear- I agree.

He is not appropriately looked at by history.

Let's get to the sound from Jason Tatum. A lot of times, former players come back, whether it be Rondo, KG Paul, or Cedric Maxwell, who works for the team, or they talk about the '86 Celtics. The thing they all have in common is they won. They won one or multiple championships. So as you're striving to be a great player, the career I have right now, if I had it with the Grizzlies, I would have a statue outside the arena. But now I'm chasing people like Larry Bird, where the standard is so much higher. And it's like, you don't want to be the great player of the Celtics that, Oh, you're the one guy that didn't win.

Chasing Larry Bird, the basketball player? Larry Bird? Jason, you're not chasing Larry Bird.

Larry Nance.

You're chasing Jalen Brown. You're chasing Derek White. Those are the guys you're chasing because they played their best game in the NBA Finals. What is this inflated sense of self worth? I have a statue. A statue in Memphis?

What?

I am honestly super, super pumped. I don't have to subject myself to Celtics basketball day in and day out.

I'll tell you what, both those players weren't playing during the Olympics. Tyrese Halliburton, I would make a case that Tyrese Halliburton, who is not going to play a single game in the NBA this year based on what's happened to the Pacers, he should probably win MVP this year. Jason Tatum, you go look what Jalen Brown is doing with the Celtics right now, who are a pretty fun story, even though in the Zazlo mansion, it's always at the Celtics. Jalen Brown is a better player than Jason Tatum is.

I like this take.

Chasing Larry Bird.

Build you a statue.

I don't think I've ever heard a player just flat out during a career. I'd have a statue.

If I played on that, you might have a statue.

What do you think of life?

He's not wrong that if he had won a championship in Memphis, that is the thing that gets you at a franchise. That point that he's making is a That's a good one, that if you're a championship-less franchise, the standard is obviously going to be higher than boss.

I would, too, if I did that with Memphis, if I carried the team through a title, which is not something that he's done. You better ask for Jalen Brown to be in Memphis with you if you want that statue.

I just think this guy's got an overinflated sense of where he stands in history. If he's comparing himself to the Steph Currys and the LeBron James, it's ridiculous. In my opinion, Jason Tatum, not unlike, say, Jimmy Butler, is like, he's got to be regarded as a consensus superstar. Wait, he is. Okay. He is. Look, Jason Tatum is one of the five. Look, you guys are being really insulting, okay? You can't just say flatly, Jalen Brown is better than Jason Tatum. You can't say it flatly. You cannot. Jalen Brown has always benefited from the fact that every team is game-planning for Jason Tatum. The game plan on Jalen Brown was take him to his left, take him to his left. You can't do that with Tatum.

Dan, I would agree, but this year has been the example of, and we've had obviously a big sample size of half the season, of no Jason Tatum, and Jalen Brown is balling.

That is correct. He's getting the usage rate, and he is also an excellent player in the league, and they won the Championship because they have two excellent players, one of whom was decided to be the second option on that team because it all rotates around Tateum. I agree.

Well, no, not with that part. I thought you were talking about Derek White.

Derek White has also been excellent with that team, and I won't dispute what it is that you're saying that Tateum's numbers, statistically, in these championship moments are down. I will tell you that the team has no chance of winning with Jalen Brown as its number one option, anything meaningful. They can surprise you. They can be better. No.

They did. When he won finals MVP, Jalen Brown was their number one option.

No, he was not their number one option. He was the one who played better. The usage rate was still Tateum's, Mike. Everything was being game-planned around, slowing and stopping Tateum, and Jalen Brown was ready and willing and able to eat in that circumstance.

Can I admit something? I don't like him, and it affects everything I say about him.

And the same is true of Zaslow, and that's what?

I have a very clear bias. I don't like Jason Tateum for a couple of reasons. He's a Celtic. Don't like them because it's also at the Celtics in my house, too. But also, he bothers me. I don't believe him to be as good as the hype. I just don't like him. And he's a tryhard. He's a tryhard. Such a tryhard. He's like, YouTubeing, like celebrations in the locker room. It That's just not my deal, babe.

What are they going to say now?

And it affects everything I say about him. I'm a hate and ass hater when it comes to Jason Tatum.

We did it. Enough with the statue talk. Enough with the statue talk. Come on. To me, he's not a top tier player in the league. He's second-tier. No, that's not Greg.

I'm with him. Second-tier. God, I feel liberated. Do you want to do a tier talk? Who's tier one? No, as a person, it seems like a fine guy. It seems like a good dad, but I just don't I don't like the idea of him.

I'll tell you who tier one is. The guy who went on his team this year went from Eastern Conference champion to worst team, Tyrese Halliburton. That's a Tier 1 player.

He was the most overrated player voted on by the players last year. So how could he be the MVP?

Guys, please look up for me. I have not looked at his numbers, but what Jason Tatum is averaging over the last couple of years and what his efficiencies are, because you're being really disrespectful with your biases. You don't have to think he's as good as he thinks he is, but you can't make Jason Tatum a second-tier player and be taken credibly in your opinions on basketball.

Let me ask you something. Can a first-tier player get no minutes and your team goes undefeated and wins a gold medal?

It's a bit of a rhetorical trick.

Dan, I'm going to keep it real with you. There is no data that you can present to me that will change my mind on this player. I am entrenched because I don't like him. While I pride myself on a man that admits when he's wrong, the day will never come with Jason Tatum. You're just going to have to get used to that.

But to be clear, I am pleased with some of the progress we are making both an American on this show. You are willing, after this very difficult hour that we've had together, you are willing to try and get everyone around the movement of when someone on television is yelling about someone choking in a big spot, you're willing to come with me and just explain that was really hard thing they were trying to do, and we shouldn't be this critical.

100% unless that person is Jason Tatum.