Transcript of The Giannis Never-Trade and a Mega-Mailbag With Zach Lowe, Plus Wyndham Clark’s Second U.S. Open Title With Joe House

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Ist sehr gut. Hol dir dein Geld zurück mit WISO Steuer. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by PayPal. You know a clutch move when you see one. A no-look pass, a buzzer beater, a big steal. Well, imagine if your wallet could pull off moves like that. That, my friends, is PayPal. Right now you can find offers from hundreds of brands like Sony, Allbirds, and Viator, and save offers before you check out. Earn unlimited rewards. Plus you can add those rewards on top of credit card points. Now that is clutch. Download the PayPal app today. Save those offers. Start scoring rewards. Terms and exclusions apply. See paypal.com/rewardsterms. Credit card points subject to issuers' terms and conditions. Bill Simmons Podcast, we are live on Netflix. We had Zach Lowe and something happened and he just disappeared like 2 minutes before we went live, but that's fine. I can, I can carry the very top here because, uh, want to tell you we have new rewatchables. We have 2 coming this week. We have From Hell Month still going really strong. We have Domestic Disturbance coming on Monday, and then The Good Son is going to be Thursday.

And then the next Monday we're gonna be doing Pacific Heights. So 3 more From Hell movies, then we'll get into a more regular schedule after that. Um, check out all of our Ringer basketball podcasts, by the way, because we have the draft on Tuesday night. I'm going live on Netflix Hopefully Zach's laptop will be working at some— or computer and camera will be working at some point. He will have a show, I think on Monday. We're gonna have, on my show on Tuesday on Netflix, it's gonna be Joe House because his team has the number one pick and that's the rule of House has the number one pick. We're good. And then Jay Kyleman will be joining us as well. And now Zach Lowe, I think, is this working, Zach? How are we feeling?

Are we live? Am I back?

We're live. I just did my intro.

Let's go. Oh my God. Okay. My computer just died. It came back to life.

I don't know what happened.

I don't know what's gonna happen, but I just, I popped into Netflix just like that. I'm live.

Okay. You did.

I thought the—

I thought the Bucs or the Miami Heat or Miami Heat media members might have sabotaged your feed.

Oh boy. Okay. So we could talk about the trade.

Uh, we have Giannis trade hostage crisis. Uh, what, day 305? Day 307? I don't know how long this has been going. We were kind of hoping it would happen this weekend. I think. I think it's gonna happen tomorrow. Sadly, not, not good for our podcast. Maybe not good for you with whatever week you had planned out. Oh boy. But I think it's gonna happen tomorrow. And I just am discounting 95% of everything I'm reading. So we're at the very top of this podcast where we talk Giannis quick. We'll talk our just knowing enough, enough about the draft to be dangerous takes. And then I have a mega mailbag that I'm gonna bring you into. And then at the tail end, Joe House is gonna tell us what happened in the US Open. So the honest trade, are you surprised it has not happened yet? Are you tired of talking about it? Where are you?

I'm not surprised it hasn't happened yet. I totally understand both why Milwaukee wants to take this as far as possible and why other teams are perhaps a little frustrated with Milwaukee's communication style. I understand all of it. I understand every party involved. I kind of thought it would be done by now. They clearly want to do it before the draft. Their owner, Jimmy Haslam, came out and said, we'd like to do it before the draft if he's not going to extend. I thought it would happen before now. I still would lean to it happening before the draft like you. I'm not frustrated, Bill. Like, I just— it's just got to roll off your back. There's nothing you can do. Am I going to a World Cup game on Tuesday? Am I tentatively throwing out the first pitch at Citi Field tomorrow? Weather permitting. Weather permitting. Like, all those things are happening. It's just nothing I can do. I can't control these variables. I just got to— I just got to roll with it. Just got to roll with it. Peace. Peace. Serenity now. Serenity now. It's all I can do.

Is this the highlight of the Mets season? You throwing out the first pitch? I can't think of any other highlights.

I mean, this might be it. The state of the rotation is such that you would not be the first one of my friends to joke that, hey, if I look good, they may have to throw me out there for a few innings. Just eat, eat some, eat some innings for 'em.

Oh, you could be like, like the Eddie Harrison Major League, the crafty over 40, junk, junk pitcher throwing junk. So with the honest, the honest thing, my feeling has not changed for a week. I think they know what Miami's offer is. It can only be so far. They're not putting Bam in it. So at that point, it's pretty easy to figure out everything that's in it. And they're just waiting on Boston to see if Boston is going to top the offer. Or maybe they're trying to get them to add stuff to the offer that already happened. I still think I would still bet on Boston. And as we talked about last week, I'm still conflicted about that. I don't feel great about the Onus trade, but, um, so there, there's been some stuff floating around in the last week that, that I, I don't want to discount, but I just don't believe, like, I think Hero, if, if it ends up being Miami, I think Hero is appealing to Milwaukee. He's from Wisconsin. I think that would be a piece they want. Um, I don't, when once we start getting into 3-team or 4-teamer stuff, I, I just become a little more suspicious.

And the other piece is I think Kuzma is the Giannis tax for this trade for whoever gets him. And I haven't seen that really anywhere in a real way. But for Miami, it would have to be Wiggins being in the trade and then Kuzma going back to Miami. He's an expiring deal. I think they just want to move off him. And then for the Celtics, I think that might be a piece of this. Like if it is gonna be Giannis and Jaylen as the principles, The Celtics have this trade exception, and I think the Giannis tax would be, well, you have to also take Kuzma. So I wonder if that's a piece of this. Have you heard anything about that?

It's a great call. I have not dug so deep as to get into the Kuzma sediment layer of this, but it makes a lot of sense, particularly for Miami, because I think they would like to, to end up with Wiggins and Powell, who's an unrestricted free agent on this theoretical Bam-Giannis team, both of them, not just one of them, because they're gonna be scrambling to fill out the team. Team. They have lost Rozier as a salary matching tool, which makes it even more difficult to do that. And it's doable keeping both of them if it's just Giannis, if it's Giannis plus a tiny salary. But if it's Giannis plus another $20 million or whatever Kuzma is making, it becomes very, very hard. And then there you get into the concerns that I think are very real for Miami is like, if we do this and all our first round picks are out the door and Jakicunas is out the door and all our young guys are out the door, what is it going to amount to? You could argue, right? Like what is the present state of the team going to amount to? But at least you have some optionality down the line for whoever the next star that becomes available is.

But like, you know, as Miami has seen, A, you never know who it's gonna be, and B, you may not get 'em. Like you didn't get Damian Lillard, you haven't got Kevin Durant, you may not get Giannis now.

Right. And then on top of it, you're getting a guy that hasn't made even the conference finals in 5 years, who has had trouble staying healthy, who's 31, 32 years old, and you're banking that he's gonna completely change your playoff destiny. So the the more you put in the trade, the less likely that goes. But like, if, if Wiggins and Kuzma have to be the extra piece for a Miami trade, and now you don't have Hero, Ware, Hakez, and Wiggins, you're just removing all of those guys out. And you're basically just, you have to, you know, bring back Norm Powell. You have Giannis, you have Bam. And then you're just kind of doing the Miami zombie thing, trying to revive careers all over the place. You're probably still in a better spot than you were at 43-39, losing a play-in game. But I also don't think you're a title contender. So we'll see. Boston's a little different 'cause I think they could talk themselves into this Tatum-Jalen thing might've reached the end. Jalen got a, a taste of being the guy, and now we're resetting the team. We're gonna be more inside-outside, and hopefully we can ride Giannis for 3 years here.

I understand it. I don't agree with it.

So, so How much, if you're, if you are Brad Stevens, how much extra are you gonna put in? Because you know, they're just, they're asking for Derrick White. I'm just making this up to be clear, but just like Derrick White plus 2 first-round picks. What about Jaylen Brown plus 2 picks and a swap? Like, which, what's your threshold of paying?

I wouldn't, I wouldn't do that at all.

You're just going away like one for one and we're done. That's it. Take it or leave it.

Yeah. I'm not taking Giannis. But also getting rid of Derek White, like part of the reason to get Giannis would be that you still have Derek White and he's like the perfect guy to play with Giannis.

So agreed, if he makes it, I would suck it up with Kuzma.

And if it's like Giannis plus the Kuzma trade exception thing for Jalen, I think that's a, that's a pretty fair trade. Jalen was one of the, you know, the 8 or 9 best players in the league last year and he's not even 30 years old yet. And then if you're Milwaukee, With the way the new lottery rules are, you, you're more competitive than you were and you still have a chance to flip Jalen. I still, I'm, I'm still rooting for the scenario with the Celtics. If they, if they've decided that they actually have to move Jalen, I think there's other teams that I would rather look at than Giannis. Like if, if the Clippers number 5 was on the table, if New Orleans with Murphy and Herb Jones and, you know, patching together a bunch of contracts and try to reset and have more flexibility, I'd, would still prefer that over the Giannis. It's, it's not a Hail Mary, but it's a little bit of a Hail Mary.

What's coming with the number 5 pick? Because you're, you're trying to, you're trying to, you're going for the title or the, the trying to win this coming season, right? So are you getting Kawhi in the number 5 pick? That seems like too much for the Clippers to ever do. Like what's coming with other than just Collins?

Collins in the 5 and maybe one more thing.

Collins is a free agent, isn't he?

Is Collins, but can't you team option him and keep him so you can trade him? I thought you could.

I think he's unrestricted.

Is he unrestricted?

He's un— he's unrestricted.

Yeah.

All right. Well, he's out, but the Clippers have a ton of cap space though. So I guess, I mean, that would be part of the deal, right? You could just, you could do Jalen and the 5 as the principles. 'Cause the Clippers really only have Kawhi and Garland as their big contracts.

I just think the Clippers, look, I, again, I, I can't sit here and claim that, oh yeah, I've been on the phone with everybody with the Clippers and they're telling me exactly what their plans are. Anyone sort of pro— posturing like that is lying to you, but I just think this, this pick from Indiana is such a gift from the basketball and the lottery gods.

Yeah.

And such a rare opportunity for a franchise that has not had any after the Shai-Kawhi-Paul George trade to not quite reset, but to at least get a blue chip young guy in the door. At least I have a shot at like, this guy could be on our team for 12 years and be really good. I just don't see them passing it up for like, hey, if we get Jalen Brown, Jalen plus Kawhi plus Garland. Like we might be able to throw a couple punches at the Spurs and the Thunder and everyone else in the— I just don't see them doing that. That's just my gut though. That's not reporting, that's just my gut.

I think you might be right. I was thinking of the Bogdanovich contract, not Collins, 'cause Collins has the team— Bogdanovich is a team option for like '16. But the Clippers are still way under the cap and could do stuff. But New Orleans would be the other one. I don't know what to make of Atlanta anymore. Like I thought it was interesting today they, they extended McCollum for 1 year for 21, which I thought was really smart. They have the 8th pick. The weirdest part of this draft is the 5th and 6th picks are both point guard picks, and yet the teams that have those picks have point guards, which is one of the many things that make this complicated. If I had to bet, I still think Boozer goes to Utah, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. But I, I still feel like I'm leaning Boozer versus rolling the dice with Peterson. Peterson goes 3, Wilson goes 4. I think the Clippers, if they stay at 5, have to take, uh, Wagner. I think Mikal, Mikal Brown goes 6, Acuff 7 to Sacramento. And then Atlanta is the first one that I'm really on the edge of my seat for.

I don't know what to make of them. And it would seem like Flemings makes a lot of sense. They could go nuts and take a center. Um, if I were them, I would take Brandon Burrus. I just think that, I just think he's the best player that's available at number 8. But would it? Do you feel like Atlanta is the pivot team?

Why, why would, why would the Clippers not take Burris? Is that too much of a reach at 5?

If I were them, I would take Burris at 5, but I, I don't feel like, I feel like in the rankings he's probably a couple spots behind those other guys. I, I think he's pretty consensus 8, 9. Now they might not care and have their own rankings, but I think for him, he's a much better bet. I love Burris. I feel the same way about him that I did about, Castle 2 years ago. I think he's a guaranteed really good pro.

The Hawks have 8-23 and a ball handler makes a lot of sense for them because you saw like once, once Trey went out, they kind of cobbled together a functional offense of screens and cuts in motion. And then as soon as they got McCollum, it was like, oh, a, a real high-level skilled ball handler changes the complete, changes the dynamics of this team completely. They're really hard to guard. It's really hard to hide any bad defenders against them. They need a ball handler like Jalen Johnson, not quite a number one ball handler. Nikhil Alexander-Walker, same deal. So it'd make a lot of sense for them to take a swing at one of those guys with that pick. It's also like an interesting first trade ship to like, are they gonna cobble things together and try to get Trey Murphy III or somebody like that? I, I don't know, but I agree they're in a very interesting spot. I have a, I have a follow-up.

Well, by the way, on the Hawks at 23, you have all these, I think guards that have a chance to be really good and I just feel like one of 'em's gonna fall. And you might be able to get a Corey, the, the point guard. He's like 6'1". He's a little Kemba Walker-y. Christian Anderson could be around there. You just might be able to get one of those guys at 23 and get a blue— you get Burrys at 8. There's like one version of him in the draft, like just an old school two-way, two-guard, and then hope you get lucky with a point guard later.

I have a Celtics question for you. Yeah. You mentioned, has the Tatum-Brown thing run its course? The other side of that coin is the Celtics have been extremely quiet and extremely careful about this whole Giannis thing. It's all been sources say the Celtics are interested in Giannis. Sources say there have been talks, whatever. The leak that says specifically Jalen Brown has been offered for Giannis has not really come out yet. It's just everyone making the very logical no other way to do it deduction. And then there was a brief like, well, could they do it without including Jaylen Brown? Which I didn't buy for a second. I don't think there's any way to do it. But my point is the Celtics have been, I think, very careful because they know having done this dance a little bit with Durant in Brooklyn, that there's collateral damage to a guy who thinks he's been offered. They can probably plausibly go to him now and be like, hey man, like it was never out there that we, explicitly offered you, like, just ignore all that stuff. Do you think that that is too far gone? Like that collateral— are you worried about that kind of collateral damage if this doesn't happen?

And how does he, how does Jaylen Brown feel about it? Is there still a path forward?

I mean, I said a week and a half ago, I know they made an offer and they're, they're definitely involved in this and they're definitely the other team. Like there's no question. The bigger question to me is how much does Jaylen Brown even care? Like my fear with all of this, and maybe this is part of the reason they're thinking about not blowing it up, but changing whatever they're doing, is that he got a legitimate taste at being the guy last year and having his own team. And that's a real thing. And that's something that has submarined a lot of NBA teams over the course of history and has, is something that's submarined other facets of life. Like I jokingly was talking about The Wire when, Avon went to jail and Stringer Bell took over the business and was kind of the guy running the thing. And then Avon came back and they— and that's the TV fictionalized version of it. But when you have a taste and it's your team and you're the guy, it's pretty tough to just be like, okay, here you go, I kept it warm for you. And I, I think what's different than a couple years ago is that, um, you know, if Jalen had his own team, I don't think he's shedding tears over that.

And I also think he's, since the season ended, he's just done a lot of like small things that make you go, huh?

That was like two, two '90s song lyrics in a row. All the small things. I guess that's post-'90s and things that make you go, hmm, all just sandwiched together. Nicely done.

There was some, there was some, the Twitch, you're not enjoying the Twitch stream. I don't think the Twitch, the, the, this was the best season of my career. Um, I don't like Tatum hasn't come on the Twitch. It's like all these little tiny things where I still don't have a lot of hardcore evidence that these guys are fired up to play basketball with each other for the next 10 years. I would rather it worked out and they stayed together because I think that's the rarest thing you could have in sports. I just am dubious that it will.

But you've done, not to derail the mailbag, I'm sorry, but you've done a very smart thing, which is this is, there's so much Giannis mania that this is being framed as Giannis or bust, and it doesn't have to be. You can canvass the league for Jaylen Brown trades. However, I will say just scanning, and I, I remember doing this at the time, finding the one, if this is your priority, and I think it should be, that keeps you at or near the top of the East with like a reasonable championship equity next season. Is not like the Clippers one that you proposed does not do that in my opinion. It's a huge step back for the team. So like I remember, I remember landing in places like Houston that, that have a lot of just stuff that and picks that they can throw in. And I just, I'm struggling to remember sort of who else fits the bill is like, here's, well, the Pelicans are the other one. That's why you have Murphy and Jones and all that. There just aren't that many who can throw back here. Here's some stuff that is different than Jaylen Brown, but keeps you out on a 58 to 60 win pace, which is what they've been at.

Well, the only thing with that Clippers one is you're resetting your salary in like a pretty crazy way because with the Clippers able to take on his money and you basically take that 5th pick back, plus you have the trade exception, you now, you really have flexibility to do a bunch of different moves.

Like I, like what about, like, I remember thinking about like, like, and I don't think either do you, I don't think Cleveland would do this, but like a Jaylen Brown for Mobley, like that would be the kind of thing that I'm talking about where it's like, here's another pathway that's not Giannis, but satisfies the make makes us just as good now as we are. And it's, it's just hard to find. Those deals are really hard to make.

We have a fake trade in the mailbag. Oh good. That's another one for this. But yeah, I mean, he's making high 50s. So any trade, unless you're getting a draft pick back and a bunch of flexibility, you're looking at another guy who's in that range and a team that's probably staring at the same way. I guess the bigger thing for me is with the, with the, I think the Knicks have at least a 2-year run here where they're gonna be really hard to beat because of the team they've assembled. All the guys at the right points of their career. And there's a real selflessness with this. Like that, the model for them would be what happened with the '70s through '73 Knicks where they won 2 titles, were able to stay together, or even like the '08 to 2012 Celtics. So you kind of know that's the team, that's the bar you have to beat. That's a team that feels like they can beat Boston is—

Or like, or like the, the, the early 2000s Pistons who only get one but are in the deep team conversation for a half decade and probably should have gotten another one in there somewhere. Yeah, I, I agree.

And they have a, a really special guy, which that Pistons team did not have. That Pistons team was a totality. Brunson is unlike anything that Pistons team had.

Dismiss the Knicks repeat chance at your peril. That's all I'm— this is a really, really good team. And if they're, they're healthy, they're deep, they're smart, they know how to play. They're incredible problem solvers. Something magical happened to them in this playoff run that it, it like, maybe it completely sustains, maybe it doesn't. But like, I think they're gonna be a force for the, as long as they can keep this core together.

Yeah. And, and Brad, his press conference was so telling right after the draft for the Celtics where he was clearly like really, really publicly unhappy for the first time in a while. Not just that they lost to a team I think he thought they were better than, but that he just didn't know if this style worked anymore. And even if you go back, we have a great mailbag question coming up about that '04 Celtics team. That team was still able to play more inside outside than the team last year. That team last year ultimately was just threes and jump shots and weirdly Pritchard as the only inside-outside guy. So I think I'm prepared for anything with them. I don't know what's gonna happen. And I still feel like, I still feel like it's gonna be honest. And then I'm gonna have to spend the summer talking myself into it.

So the other stuff, honestly, that is a really appealing part of it for me that I just want to witness You've come into grips with it and then going all the other way of like why this would be the perfect fit. Yeah. Giannis, I've loved Giannis all along.

The shape of his career. He's, he's totally rested. I'll talk myself into it. And it's the same thing, like I said last month about if Miami gets him, wherever Giannis goes, the team and the content from that team is gonna be way more fun. Right? Last year we were in this Giannis situation really where it was just like, this is just a wasted asset for us to watch and discuss. And wherever he goes, it's gonna be a lot more fun. The other thing I wanna see with this draft, the 11, 12 range of Golden State picking right before OKC, and I'm sure you've heard this too, these teams now that see it through the prism of, I'm tired of watching OKC just nail the draft. How would they be thinking about these guys in the spot I'm in? And there's a couple like classic OKC guys in this range right after that top 8 where Yaxel, Morris Johnson, like these are just guys that OKC will pick and then you'll, you'll get texts from 20 teams being like, fuck, OKC did it again. And I wonder if that's gonna change how people see the draft with their own spot.

Exactly.

Like even Atlanta at 8 or the Warriors at 11, like, ah, I wonder what OKC would do here.

I will caution, I heard you say that with Legler a couple days ago. I will say that the Spurs had that kind of reaction maybe 10, 12 years ago where they would take a guy and be like, I remember vividly this happened with Kyle Anderson. Like, oh, of course the Spurs steal Kyle Anderson. But, and then it turns out he's just like, whatever. Like it's some, sometimes he's like, oh, of course they draft this guy. Turn into like, of course the Spurs drafted Josh Primo. What a steal he's gonna be.

Oh yeah. That was not a steal.

Okay.

So just, you know, you feel like that's okay. Get carried away with it. All right. Aggregate that. Zach Lowe says, Presti overrated. Oh, I didn't know that. Zach Lowe eviscerates Sam Presti. All right. Uh, we're taking, we're taking a quick break.

Oh, good.

And then I have an awesome mega mailbag and Zach can recover from eviscerating Sam Presti right after this. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We are in the heart of the World Cup. Look at these little special bottles for Michelob Ultra. Uh, every play matters here. FIFA World Cup 26, for you, the stakes are just as high. Michelob Ultra, the official beer sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 26, is giving you a chance to win $1 million worth of tickets and prizes. Michelob Ultra, from the pitch to the pour, superior is worth playing for. Enter now at michelobultra.com/superioraccess FIFA World Cup 26. Michelob Ultra FIFA World Cup 26 Superior Access. No purchase necessary. Open to US residents 21+. Begins on December 1st, 2025. Ends on July 31st, 2026. Multiple entry periods. Visit www.michelobultra.com/superioraccess/fifaworldcup26 for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. All right, mailbag time. All right. Some really good ones. This is from, I hope I pronounce this correctly, Pacho in Düsseldorf, Germany. He threw you in this mailbag question.

Okay.

He said, I want to know how you and Zach think a tournament of the last 8 champions would actually shake out. Here's how the seeding landed based on win percentage. Number 1 is OKC, 2 Boston, 3 Lakers, 4 Toronto, 5 Knicks, 6 Nuggets, 7 Warriors, and 8 Bucks. How does it shake out? So first round would be OKC 1 versus Bucks 8, Boston over and Golden State, Denver and the Lakers, and Knicks Toronto. So let's, let's go through the 1-8. I have OKC over the Bucks in 5. 2015, uh, '25 OKC against that '21 Bucks team. I think, I think the Thunder handled them.

I didn't make specific, uh, games picks, but I took the Thunder. So it's a Thunder in 6. I'll give Giannis a couple games. Giannis, Drew Holliday, Chris Middleton. I'll give him a couple games for sure.

Okay. I think OKC was better. That Bucks team, God bless them. Great team. They got a, a really nice Pat Connaughton playoff run. Middleton was great. I just think the OKC team was really good. Celtics, the '24 version going against the '22 Warriors. So they almost beat the '22 Warriors and that '24 team I think was just better. The guys were older, more experienced. I have to sadly take the Celtics.

Celtics. Uh, it's, I think it's the Celtics. You put, you throw Jrue Holiday and Porzingis into the mix and it's just the depth and versatility are, are a different animal than those Warriors could, could summon, I think.

Yeah. But congrats all the, listen, there's no losers. These are 8 champions.

We're not, yeah.

And we're not downing any of these teams.

You're setting me up for, for some inflammatory, all of these are wonderful teams, great teams. And one of the teams, one of the common themes we're gonna run into is we debate the merits of them. And I, I focused like on matchups and, and, and like how they met, would match up with each other and what they look like in the playoffs more than like regular season win totals and net ratings. 'Cause if we're just gonna do it that way, just pick the 25 Thunder the whole way. If you're gonna do, just do it that way. And you're gonna run into like debating the difficulty of their playoff paths to the title. Like, and, but, and that's a common, it turns out that's like a common thing. You don't always get the 2011 Mavericks path where you just have to beat all the best teams. Like a lot of these teams in the moment, people said, well, they didn't have to play this team. They didn't have to play that team. It's actually pretty common.

Denver over the Lakers. So that's 23 Denver against the 20 Lakers. And that 20 Lakers team did have, this is where it gets complicated because KCP is, KCP is in both, in both teams. I don't know what we do with that.

I didn't think about that.

It's a double KCP. Caruso was on that Laker team as well. They had Rondo. I, I just think Jokic had the Lakers number over the last few years there and I would take Denver over the Lakers in 6 or 7 would be my pick.

I'm going Nuggets in 7. Best player and the best version of that team. I think that we've seen the '23 Nuggets, we're, we're going peak against peak, right? We're going like peak form '23 Nuggets versus '20 Lakers.

Yes.

That '20 Lakers was a really good team. I have always been Lakers fans, a proponent of like the bubble title counts just the same as all other titles. It's special in its own way. I'm not saying that. There's nothing about that. They had Danny Green too. You forgot about Danny Green. They had a lot of good role players on that team. I just think that Denver team was, was pretty awesome. And I will take them in a long 7-game slog.

I feel the same way. Plus Jokic was on that '23 playoffs that Jokic had is one of the all-time heaters. I think he was 31, 14, and 11 or something. Shot 50% from 3. Crazy. All right, last one's a fun one. Knicks and Toronto, and you have OG and Anunoby on both teams, but we have to factor in the appendicitis for OG and Anunoby. You do. So he's wiped out on the Toronto side, but playing for the Knicks side. And all due respect for Toronto, which I think was the prototype for the every single guy on our team can create a shot for themselves, which was really one of the first times we had seen that with a, with a title team. Kawhi was great that year, but I think the Knicks beat them.

How many games do you think it's a good series?

I had Knicks in 6. It going into Toronto and when, and, and going into the Air Canada Center. Oh, oh no, that would be, they would be winning in MSG regardless. Knicks in 6. What'd you have?

I think this is a tougher one than I initially just circled Knicks cuz A, my brain is dumb and they, this just happened and so I'm overrating them in my head probably a little bit, but they are just an awesome team. They solved all comers. They just had the highest point differential in the history of the playoffs. That Raptors and, and our last memory of that Raptors team is, is tainted by Durant injury, Klay injury. Kawhi was kind of running outta gas toward the end of that series. Yeah. And VanVleet carried him over the finish line.

VanVleet heat check.

Young Siakam, young Anunoby who didn't play, but young Siakam was already really good. The Abaka Gasol combo was really good. It's a really versatile, well-rounded two-way team. I'm gonna give them a 7-game loss to the Knicks. I think they take the Knicks to the distance in, in, in that series, but I'm taking the Knicks.

That sounded like somebody that's going to Toronto for a World Cup game in 2 days. Didn't wanna be yelled at.

Yeah.

Well, look, next, next round is much better and much tougher.

Yeah. I'm not, I'm not gonna like what's gonna happen in this, in this round.

We have OKC and the Knicks and we have Denver and the Celtics.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that's an easier one. I think Denver beats the Celtics. Jokic always beats the Celtics. And I don't care how good that '24 Celtics team was. I don't think we're beating the '23 Nuggets, unfortunately. So I have them in 6. The other one's That's a tough one. Who'd you have in the Denver series?

That, that's the, like the dream series we didn't get, right? Like that whole season when Boston got, won the title, the dream was Denver, Boston. Yeah. Like the, although the two regular season matchups were like the most amped up matchups of most hyped up matchups of the season. I remember vividly watching one on a plane and praying the wifi would stay strong enough for me to continue watching the game. 'Cause they didn't have live TV on this particular flight. I went back and forth. I'll take Denver in 7, just defaulting again to they have the best player and that team was just humming. Like Aaron Gordon, it's like peak Aaron Gordon, peak Bruce Brown, peak, peak everybody involved pretty much. And so I will take Denver in 7, but I think that Celtics team was, was awesome and solved some of its like late game, you know, whatever yips or whatever they had.

No question that would've been an awesome series. OKC over New York is an even tougher call. I went with OKC in 7, because of all the dudes they would've had to throw up Brunson. I think the big what if of these playoffs that we just had is if OKC just beats San Antonio in 7, do we feel much better about San Antonio than we did after 5 Finals games? And then that OKC team was just, all my Knicks fan friends were like, Thank God we didn't have to play OKC. That was a much tougher matchup for us. So I would go OKC in 7 in that one. But I really waffled and I couldn't decide.

My heart wants to take the Knicks.

Yeah.

And I think the Knicks, again, their level of problem, they're a very difficult team to play against. They're an unusual team in a lot of respects with this 6-foot-nothing guard who gets whatever he wants and a shooting 5 and all this wing versatility, wing size around them. I mean, what do you make of Oklahoma City needing 7 to beat Denver with Michael Porter Jr. playing with one arm and Aaron Gordon playing with one leg and then 7 to beat Indiana? Like, like this is what I struggle with because again, if you're just going to go on the— on paper, regular season plus combined resumes, it's Oklahoma City and it's not close. But the playoff resumes are New York's run better. However you want to quantify it was certainly more dominant, easier conference, albeit I think I might actually take the Knicks in 7 to win this matchup over that specific Oklahoma City Thunder team. I think I might, I think something just because of the inexperience and I just, it wasn't, it was a very good playoff run by Oklahoma City, great championship run. I just think something crazy happened with the Knicks and they just found nirvana and found magic.

So I'll just, whatever, this is a fun exercise. I'm taking the Knicks in 7. Forget it. Sorry.

It's a great one. I, uh, here's, here's why I took OKC.

They're amazing.

There's no wrong answer. Just all the guys to throw at Brunson, which San Antonio had, but the difference is in the last 5 minutes, OKC had Shea and San Antonio didn't have anybody, and that's why they kept losing those last games.

I'm just me.

All right, so I have Finals Denver, I have over OKC. So, um, just because they came so close to beating OKC anyway. And that '23 Denver team was way better. So that one was an easier one for me. So you have Denver versus New York in your matchup. So who do you have?

I went Denver in 7. It's crazy that we both ended with the '23 Nuggets who were pilloried for having 2 play-in teams in their playoff run.

And yeah.

And how soft it was in playing Miami in the finals and all that. I, I think, you know, power ranking these, I think '23 Denver, '25 OKC, '26 Knicks, the last 4. To me are stronger than the early parts of, I agree with that, of the run. The last 4 are really, really good single season teams. Just awesome teams, top to bottom.

Yeah, I think the '23 Nuggets were the best of the 8. So we agree.

Okay.

It's fake trade season for the next part of the mailbag. First one's from Mac. He said, I have to say that you were early and so right about Harper. I'll take all I noticed Dylan Harper was awesome compliments in the preseason, which was the single easiest thing to know. Um, I know that Dallas is contractually obligated to have their best player be a white guy, but hypothetically, okay, let's say you were the Spurs GM and Dallas calls offering Flag for Harper. Do you say yes? What if the Wizards call and offer you the first pick for Harper? Harper is not getting traded for any pick in this draft. They've already litigated that. Flag for Harper is more interesting. Dallas obviously isn't trading Flag. Nobody's trading anybody, but I'm wondering what, from what we know now, I still think Flag should go first, but I, I did waffle way more than I would've 2 months ago.

So the question is not who goes first in the draft, it's do the Spurs, who says no to Flag for Harper, or do the Spurs say yes or no?

I mean, it's actually a better trade for San Antonio because they already have a point guard, right?

I think, I, I just think they say no anyway because what they just saw with Harper in the playoffs is a known commodity. They've gotten a year to know him and within their Walls. They know how he fits with Wembenyama. He's a more— I, I, it's a, it's a more of a sea change to go to Flag as the supersized point forward. You can look, you can't lose with either of 'em, but I, I think they would probably be like, we're good.

I think it's a double no.

We're good.

I think it's a double no.

Yeah. Could, I mean, the, yeah, the Mavs, the Mavs aren't in a hurry. The Mavs are saying no as well, for sure.

Yeah.

They hang up faster. Flag on that Spurs team would've been fascinating. Like literally what they needed. Not that Harper wasn't what they needed, but Flag next to Wemby would've been really fun. This one's a little more realistic, even though I don't think it happens. From Aaron in Oregon, who says no? Austin Reeves for Jalen Duren, double sign and trade. Lakers get their big for Luka, Detroit gets a perfect fit next to Cade, avoids overpaying Duren. And then he adds, also, is everyone sleeping on Dame Freakin' Lillard joining this Portland team that got a win in San Antonio? So he's true, Dame's coming back.

He just did the two-part question that you do at the press conference when you only get one question. Hey Adam, two-parter for you. And they're just completely unrelated. It's like, hey, what about expansion? B, aspiration, not finishing anytime soon. Thanks. I'll take it from here. Yeah, we are sleeping on Dame. It, it work. I'll talk more about Portland later. What was the first part? I already forgot. This is the danger of the two-part question.

Duran, Duran, Reeves double sign and trade.

Just so, so who's, I'm just going beef stew, Paul Reed all in on those guys and, and finding a center down the line. It's like Austin Reeves is a better player right now than Jalen Jalen Duren. I feel like his, they, they need secondary creation around Cade. They more urgently need what regular season Jalen Duren was in terms of like rim running, all that stuff. So I'm just, I'm, that's too much. These are huge changes. I'm saying no, it's too much for me to contemplate as the Detroit Pistons.

I'm saying no as well for both teams. I do think Detroit needs to get Duren somewhere between 30 and 35. 4 to 5.

Seems doable to me.

Yeah, I don't think— I didn't— he can't be a max guy. This next one's fun from Jovel. Quips trade 5th pick for Paulo Banchero. Quips already have Garland. Drafting a guard is redundant. Magic could choose Acuff to pair with Suggs and Franz and fix their luxury tax issues. What are your thoughts? It did make me pause. As earlier in the podcast, I had a Jalen Brown for the 5. You said that wasn't on the Boston timetable, which you're right. Right. This is a little more on the Magic timetable. Pretty good trade. That's a good one. So basically it's Acuff and you save $35 million on the cap.

And Bankero is still very young, so it's sort of a pl— up, although he's making a max salary. My whole thing about the Clippers and being just overjoyed to have a blue chip young guy kind of still applies. Clippers gotta think hard about that. Gotta think really hard about that. There is something a little depressing about pairing 2 of like 2 guys who are leaving disappointing postseason teams, or I guess the Cavs are no longer a disappointing postseason team, but Garland and Bankaro feels like, hey, we got, we got the discards from teams that just didn't do quite as much as, didn't play quite as well in the playoffs as we wanted. That's a good one. I don't know if I, the way the, the film I've watched with the draft guys with the Clippers, I'm just saying I'm gonna make the pick. I'm making a pick. There's enough guys that I would love to have on my team that I'm just gonna make the pick.

Would you trade the 5th pick for Mobley? That one gets really interesting cuz that solves a lot of luxury tax shit for Cleveland too.

I probably, I think, ah, that's hard. That's hard. As the Clippers, as the Clippers, I probably would. And I just think Mobley's a little bit more Is he better than Ben Carro? I think he is a little bit better than Ben Carro just because of what he could do defensively is like a total known A+ commodity and he's very young.

But see, I wouldn't do that trade if I was the Cavs.

You would?

I would not because I, it's all guards on the 5th pick and I, I think I would rather have—

Oh, I wasn't even thinking about it from their perspective. Yeah. I don't think they're—

For the Cribs, I would do it.

I don't think they're moving Mobley almost for anyone. Right now.

So good. They shouldn't. Adam from Santan Valley, Arizona had a three-teamer where the Warriors got Anthony Davis and Klay Thompson. Washington got Jimmy Butler and the 11th pick from Golden State, and Dallas got Pods and Moses Moody in the trade exception from AD. The 11th is way too much for Anthony Davis. I don't think he has that kind of value. I do feel like there's a, Next year's first from Golden State with the Butler expiring for Davis is like in the vicinity of what I think. And I don't think Davis wants to be in Washington and neither do you, but I don't think he's worth the 11th pick with the injury history over the years and his age and his salary.

The Warriors just, you gotta, you just gotta think a little bit about tomorrow too. And I think they've been pretty open about that. Like we, yes, we wanna win around Steph. Yes, all Anthony Davis would help. You gotta think a little bit about, about tomorrow. Why was Dallas in that trade? What was Dallas getting out of Adam?

I think just to get Klay Thompson back on Golden State. Oh, Klay Thompson. Which I fully support. I, I think Adam was thinking right. All right, this is the best one from Doug from Sleepy Hollow. You discussed Chicago-Memphis trades to get Peterson to Chicago with House, but the ideal one is staring us in the face. Number 3 for number 4 and a sick new Hyatt in downtown Memphis.

Oh, come on.

One of the weird subplots of the season, finding out NBA players hate Memphis because of the hotel. Well, the governor of Illinois is rich because his family owns Hyatt, and he's currently taking heat from Illinois sports fans because the Bears are threatening to move to Indiana. With one move, everyone wins. Bulls get Peterson, Memphis gets Wilson and a luxury Hyatt in downtown Memphis.

But that's not helping me as the Memphis— that's not helping me as the Memphis Grizzlies. It's helping my opponents rest better and be happier when they come to my city.

And that's a great point. I want them to be happy. Yeah. So Memphis says no. They're like, this hotel thing's an advantage for us. The players are pissed. They don't sleep well. They can't get good room service. Like, we like where we are with this. Screw you. They hang up. Oh, this was the Jaylen Brown trade. They got, this is from Sean T. Jaylen Brown and Hauser for Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon.

Ooh, that got an ooh outta me.

It's funny 'cause Jaylen Brown and Jamal Murray was the big Boston, who were they gonna take at 3, 10 years ago in the 2016 draft? Jamal Murray was was one of the guys people thought Boston was going to take. Um, Jalen Brown and Hauser for Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon. Denver would save a little money on that one too.

They'd save a lot of money. We're going to have to ignore that element of— I think it's $81 million coming back to the Celtics, and Jalen is at $57, and Hauser is at, uh, $67 for $81, $68 for $81.

Yeah, you could throw in one more to make that work, potentially. Pretty good one. Wow. This, wow. You're really deliberating on this one. I like this one. So this would give the Celtics Murray with Derrick White, Pritchard off the bench, Aaron Gordon, Tatum. You're still hurting at center a little bit, but that would be it.

I think I'm a no if I'm Boston, just because—

Oh, I thought it would be Denver that would be the no.

I mean, it could, it could be either, honestly. Again, no, I have no prep for this, listeners. This is just being thrown at me blind.

Yeah, that's, that's what we love.

I love torturing you. Gordon leg issues are really worrisome to me and I just like, like $95 million of Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon in 2029 makes me a little nervous if I'm the Celtics and I care a little bit about like maybe cleaning up my books at some point, which is one of the things you've talked about with, with Jalen.

It's a double no. I think the more realistic one would just be Jalen for Jamal Murray straight up. Up with maybe some massaging from the Denver side. Randy in Sacramento would like to propose the following Kings special.

Oh boy.

Where everyone wins. The Spurs receive Domantas Sabonis, Hawks receive De'Aaron Fox, and the Kings get Reece Tshay Kuminga and the Spurs' 20th pick and maybe their pick swap back. I'll go way more simple than this. What if it's just Fox to the Hawks? Rui Hachet and Kaminga to Sacramento and Sabonis and Buddy Heald to San Antonio. No picks, nothing else. That actually works on the trade machine.

This person needs assistance immediately. This is absolutely an insane trade.

Insane for who?

Everybody involved. So, so the Spurs are like, hey, we just made the finals and won 60-whatever games.

Give us Sabonis.

Like, how about we upend everything and try to pair Sabonis with Victor Wembenyama? That sounds amazing.

—rebounds.

The Hawks are like, hey, we're a pretty good young team. Yeah, we just resigned CJ McCollum for 1 year. You know what sounds great? 4 years and $220 million a year and Fox for a guy we just picked at number 1 in Jonathan Kuminga. And I, and, and the Kings are getting what? They're getting Kuminga and, uh, they have to opt in the Kuminga and they get Rich Shay.

That's it. That's all they get.

That's actually, that's actually not even, the Kings are not making out like bandits there for a guy who called this a Sacramento, presumably fan who called it the Kings special. That one, that one broke me a little bit. It broke my spirit. It broke my morale. I'm a, I'm a little flustered by that one.

Sorry, Randy. And then the last one's from Ellis in New York who says he loves the pod. I know the Nuggets have no plans to trade Jokic.

Okay, let's go. I was waiting for this one.

But could the Thunder offer something like Chet, J Dub, and picks for Jokic, Jannere, and Gordon? What's the motherlode? How far could it go? It did. So I texted you and I was like, got this Jokic trade. They're not trading Jokic.

You texted me, I just wanna be clear, 55 minutes before the scheduled start time of this podcast, you just texted me, I did. Hey, build some fair, realistic Jokic trades. Okay.

They're not gonna trade him, but I do think if they ever did, Utah would be the team cuz it's reasonably close to Denver. Is that who you had too? I have 6 teams.

I, that's, this is how I roll, Bill. You gimme 55 minutes on us, I give you 6 teams.

I, all I needed was one. I can't believe you had 6.

Ellis gave me, Ellis gave you one, which is OKC's an obvious one. You pair Shay and Jokic and you just figure out the rest. I wouldn't trade both Chet and J Dub, but one of 'em, I wouldn't either.

But Chet, 12, 17. Yeah. I got a few other picks.

They also, they get, the Kaysen's gotta be in it. Gimme Sorber. They, they own the rights to multiple Denver first round picks. So I get my picks back. Like there's a lot of stuff there. And Utah's an, I, I'm surprised you landed on Utah too. 'Cause I have, there's a, there's a Utah trade to be made. The problem is I really want to sign and trade Walker Kessler as part of that trade if I'm the Jazz and the Nuggets because of the apron of can't take a player back who's acquired in the sign and trade because I don't, he's the one if I'm getting Jokic. So I have to make, I, I have to make a 3-team trade and it gets a little complicated. It was, here's my question on, in your Utah trade, was the number 2 pick involved?

Yeah. 100,000%. Okay. Yeah. It's a, it's a full blow it up for Utah. That was the only one. Yeah. I had a number 2, Markkanen, all the other picks they have where they, they basically and I had them keeping Kessler in the trade, not just for the reason you mentioned, but I also kind of like the idea of Kessler and Jokic together. But, okay. But Utah is one of the few teams that could make a fuck you offer, I think. And you also have to figure you want Jokic to be happy and he kind of likes being on that side in the mountains. And just, you don't have to say what the other offers were, but what were the other 4 teams you had?

I want to, I want to say, oh go. All right, so first of all, here are the 3 different challenges for this, right? Whatever team get— we're seeing now with Giannis, whatever team gets Jokic has to be in position to win immediately. That's number 1. Number 2, their picks in this new lottery world have to have some upside for me as Denver where it's like, okay, I'm not gonna get the 25th pick every year. And number 3, Jokic has to be willing to sign an extension. So we talked about Utah, we talked about Okay. See Houston, Shengun, Jabari Smith Jr., Nets pick, Suns pick, a bunch of swaps, Rockets pick. So I get bites at the apple from different, from different teams who could bottom out in the right year. Portland, Donovan Clingan, Scoot Henderson, Jeremy Grant, all the Bucks picks, all the Blazers picks. Anything of interest there for you? You get all the Milwaukee stuff.

I don't know if Portland has the headliner for that trade necessarily. No, Clingan plus Scoot is not as sexy as it, as it might've been. Now the number 2 pick to me is a much more important headliner.

Charlotte, LaMelo Ball or Brandon Miller, take your pick. Number 14, number 18, Solan, a Mavs pick, a Heat pick, all the future Charlotte picks.

No, no. And I, I, I need, if I'm trading Joker, I need something incredible back.

The Lakers, the Lakers straight up for Luka Dončić. Just, just 'cause I thought you'd have a little fun with that one.

Hold on, let's talk this out.

I keep LeBron, Reaves, and I get Jokic and we're going all in to win the title with that group. I would've thought more than we're not gonna have, we're not gonna have a lot of defense,, but we, we already don't have enough.

I have to throw in more Luka though. More than Luka, right? I gotta throw in a pick or two with that future something, anything. I don't know. I mean, that's pretty good. Windham Clark just won the US Open. Okay. My guy.

My, I've always, I've always said, you always said Windham Clark. Windham Clark is my guy.

David Sherman said, one of my favorite takes you've ever had is the NBA should award larger or smaller trophies to the NBA champion depending on how important or impressive the run or triumph is. What size would you give the Knicks after this year? Obviously no one is getting a bigger trophy than the 2011 Mavs, blah, blah, blah. So I actually, that idea was for the MVP, not the NBA, not the Lawrence O'Brien Trophy because I feel like every championship is special.

I like that you just threw out the trophy's full name, not the Larry O'Brien, you just put the whole Lawrence O'Brien.

Oh, Lawrence. Ironically, probably the worst commissioner the league's ever had. Just overwhelming amount of evidence. I think this is a better idea for the MVP 'cause we have some incredible, you know, like the Shaq 2000 or LeBron 2012 MVPs where it's just like, these are the biggest 40-pound MVPs. And then there's the other ones where like Karl Malone during the lockout is a great one. Every chance you get, free pounder. I want to tell people Both privately and publicly.

Any chance you get to slander Karl Malone, you're not passing it up.

I feel great about it.

I have text threads with Karl Malone slander. It's just endless. Feel great about it.

Feel, I feel one of my least favorite non-Celtics ever.

I wish he had had a cup of coffee with the Celtics at the end of his career.

So the trophies, if we, if we gave them 3, maybe 3 sizes only for how impressive the run was. Um, I still feel like the 2011 Mavs would be higher than this Knicks title, but I still thought it was really impressive. It was a level 2 for me. It was level 1, level 2, level 3 being the highest. 3 is the highest. That's, and that's really just 2011 Mavs. I don't even know who else is on that. Uh, this was a solid level 2.

The level is, are we combining difficulty, memorability? Yeah. The whole package. The whole thing.

Yeah. The historical significance, the Knicks had a bunch of it, but I don't know the path.

I don't think, no, you could get them. I think this is a level 3. I think the Knicks just had a level 3 and my case would be 16-3 in the playoffs, greatest point differential in the history of the playoffs. Collision with Wembenyama, which we'll always remember because the next face of the league and all of that entered a hero and left a villain in very simplistic terms. And first title in 53 years for the biggest market and one of the most historic franchises in the sport. I think it's a level 3 despite the fact that you could nitpick the opposition. It's a level 3.

You know what else? You're right. And you left out the greatest comeback in the history of the sport.

The mo— one of the most iconic plays of all time.

Yeah, you're right. It's a level 3. My apologies, Knicks fans. You were, you, this is a level 3 title. This next email is really good. It's from Sean in Charlotte who fancies himself as an amateur NBA historian. He said the Knicks playoff run was 100% unbelievable. I clocked your Shawshank Redemption reference in your June 14th podcast. Was the Patriots 2001 Super Bowl like this for you? Do you actively remember thinking you didn't have to cringe at that refrigerator Paris Super Bowl touchdown anymore the rest of your life? And he's right. But he said seeing Patrick Ewing hugging Karl Towns was genuinely emotional. People I don't have to think about anymore. Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, Hugh Hollins, Phil Jackson. Hakeem, Reggie Miller, Rick Smiths, Pat Riley, PJ Brown, Scott Layden, Isaiah Thomas, Kurt Rambis, Jeff Hornacek, David Fisdale, Trae Young, and Tyrese Halliburton. That was Sean and Charlotte. And it's such a great point. When you win a title, all of these horrible skeletons you have in your poltergeist pool just vanish into dust. Why did he include Hugh Hollins? Hugh Hollins.

That was the, the, that was a phantom foul in the Knicks' favor, was it not?

I know, but then it led to them making the finals. So maybe he sees Hugh Hollins and it led to more pain. I don't know why he included him. Okay. Um, but it's a great point because I remember when the Red Sox won in '04 and the Aaron Boone game had happened the year before. Remember when the Yankees won in—

in— I remember exactly where I was.

Yeah. And that was going to haunt me the rest of my life. And then the Red Sox beat the Yankees the next year. All of a sudden, that Aaron Boone homer, nothing, means nothing to me anymore. It's just dead. And that's what happens when you win a title, is all the— all the skeletons just vanish.

I felt terrible. I remember exactly where I was in that game. I was a neutral party in as much as I was not a neutral party. I was a Mets fan growing up, but my dad is a Red Sox fan, so I was cheering for the Red Sox. I was at the, I think it was called the Lion's Head on the Upper West Side/Morningside Heights. And it was a, it was the cool, it was a mixed crowd. Yeah. Half Yankees fans, half Red Sox fans, rowdy. I just remember RIP feeling the absolute worst for Tim Wakefield, who just had made such a great career out of being a knuckleballer, was an ironman, an innings eater, beloved member of that team. And just watching him walk off the mound, I just said, man, this, this, anybody, I would've been, I would've felt less bad if it had almost been anybody on the Red Sox but him that gave up that home run.

So beloved that none of us held it against him that he gave up the season-ending homer. We all loved Tim Wakefield. It was never, it wasn't like a Calvin Schiraldi, Bob Stanley thing. And then a year later, he became one of the playoff heroes. Yeah, but that is a great part of winning the title. Zum Herrschen auserwählt haben. Drachenheiß zum besten Preis. Jetzt ab 2,98 € im Monat.

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Kaffee in seiner besten Form. Mit kyubo wird jeder Kaffee auf Knopfdruck zum Genussmoment. Denn mit der neuen kyubo ONE Kapselmaschine von Chibo genießt du feinsten Spitzenkaffee aus besonderen Anbaugebieten. Vollmundige Aromen dank innovativer PressBrew-Technologie und über 17 Sorten Kaffee für jeden Geschmack. Erlebe Premiumkaffee schon ab 29 €. Entdecke jetzt die Qubo Kapselmaschinen in deiner Qubo-Filiale und auf qubo.de. Jeff from New York, now it's gonna get a little dark. With the Knicks looking the best they've been and completing owning the city with this title, it's officially over for the Brooklyn Nets. They are a zombie franchise playing in a gentrified mall. Why not move the Nets to Las Vegas, buy out Robert Para, move the Grizzlies to Seattle, and let the new ownership groups pay a massive relocation entry fee to the other 30 owners instead of expansion? You get— you still get a lot of money. Seattle gets Sonic back. Vegas gets a roster. We don't have to watch 30-win expansion teams. Who says no? I do wonder, do this— did the Sighs, you think, have like a secret meeting being like like, is this ever gonna work here? What do we do?

I mean, I think, I think this is not even a, I mean, the, the relocation thing is a little bit crazy, but this whole like existential crisis of the Brooklyn Nets as a franchise is, is a real thing. Because if you did like ancillary winners and losers of the finals and the playoffs and the Knicks title run, the Nets are near the top of the list because this just underlined irrelevant is too strong of a word,. But New York is a multi-team town for every sport seemingly except NBA basketball. And I guess WNBA basketball because of the Liberty, who the Nets also own and are like a phenomenal fan experience and a great team. It's just like this, this high, like I found myself imagining what would a Nets parade look like if they had won during the Durant time? It would not have been like that. It would not have felt like that in New York.

It would've been 20 to 10% like that.

And I, I, and, and why I find it interesting is because obviously the Nets have been kind of tanking since that team broke up and failed. Yeah. The lottery gods have not been kind to them. They were not kind to them again. They're picking 6th on Tuesday and they have just drafted a bunch of point guards. That's a point guard spot. I just wonder sort of how aggressive the sides want to be. I'm like, hey, we gotta like, We, this is embarrassing. Like we gotta put something together that creates a little buzz and I'm not sure how we do that. Like, do we want to go out and get this guy, that guy? I just, I'm interested to see how they respond because I do think the Knicks winning and the, the outpouring of emotion from the entirety of New York City is like a, a meaningful material change to like what the Brooklyn Nets mean to the NBA. I, I really do.

I'm sorry to Nets fans. By the way, it was lying underneath for decades. The opportunity with the Nets was that the Knicks run had been so awful for 20 years. Could you steal some Knicks fans based on how they tried to run and weird?

And Durant and Kyrie were like earmarked for the Knicks and they went to the Nets and that was, and that whole thing. And then they got Harden and we've talked ad nauseam about that.

I actually watched the foot on the line 3 from Durant. It's like mass chaos in Barclays. That has to be the loudest and craziest when he makes it and actually goes in and the fans thought they win. So there was some energy there. And if you're this size, you have to think like, okay, well, go back and watch some of those games. Like, there wasn't nothing. No, it wasn't nothing. But I honestly feel the same way about the Clippers. I just think LA's a Laker town. There's very few Clipper fans. And I don't really fully understand why Ballmer just wouldn't move to Seattle and just be like, you know what, I tried. Obviously he can't now because he just built this into a dome and he's just kind of all in. But there's just a couple teams. It's the same reason why we don't have two teams in Chicago. The NBA makes way more sense and works better. I wouldn't— Memphis wouldn't be the team I move. I, I would move New Orleans if I had to pick a team to move. That would be the, that would be the one. We've never seen professional basketball succeed ever in New Orleans, and it's not the fault of the fans, but it's a small market and a team that's run horribly.

And if you were just gonna say relocation, Nets somewhere and, and, and the Pelicans somewhere, and we don't have expansion.

Here's the other thing.

That makes more sense to me.

Here, this is maybe obvious, but here's the other thing that happened with this Knicks title run. An entire group of young fans in Brooklyn is Knicks forever. In Queens, in every borough, in every area of New York is, they're now Knicks fans forever. You've lost an entire generation. Even some fans who maybe like flirted with being a Nets fan. Have now pivoted to, to being Knicks fans.

I watched it happen in Boston after I left with the Bruins, cuz the Bruins, the owner and some of the stuff that the Bruins really like faded and became like just hardcore Bruins fans and nobody else. And then this new Bruins group came in and completely rejuvenated the city on the Bruins. And the same thing happened with the Patriots. And all of a sudden you had all these people who were, you know, under 25, under 30 that just loved those teams. That might not have been there. And the same thing's gonna happen with the Knicks. All right, you had no prep for this question. Okay, from Joshua. I was thinking about all the sets of NBA brothers. All-Star Weekend should capitalize by creating a brothers 2-on-2 tournament. What would that look like? I'll give you the 8, uh, 8 brother teams. Okay, the Thompsons, Dylan and Ron Harper, Giannis and pick a brother, Franz and Mo Wagner, Jalen and Cody Williams, Aaron and Drew Holiday, Kason and Keaton Willis— Wallace— and, uh, I'm sorry, Wallace— and, uh, Steph and Seth Curry. Um, so basically comes down to, I would say, the Thompson twins versus the Harpers in the finals would be my guess, unless you just think Giannis could one-man it.

I really would be curious of who Giannis would pick. Wouldn't this tournament be amazing though? First of all, if anything is better than the Taco Bell pool and weed or school Taco Bell skills challenge. 3-ball presented by Sprite. Sprite. Yeah. I think Giannis would try to pick all of his brothers and just sort of like sub them in and out. And I think the, the league would have to make him pick. No, you have to pick, right? One of them, only one. And you have to snub the others and create family drama that will last generations. Yeah. You have to do it. I think the Thompsons find a way to bully and defend their way into beating the Harpers and everybody else. And they would be my pick. But Dylan Harper is the Dylan Harper and Ron Harper Jr. So game 7 starter. It's a nice team. Ron Harper Jr. is a nice team.

Yeah. It's a playoff experience for both Thompsons. Probably a rock fight with the Thompsons, but, but maybe, I don't know, I'd have them in the finals. Thompson twins, like minus 140 over the Harpers.

I mean, imagine trying to score on those guys 2 on 2. My God, what a, what a, ugh.

The brother tournament. I love it. This is from Stutz. He says, has the Luka Brunson Mavs team overtaken The Harden-KD-Westbrook OKC team as the biggest, what if we kept this team together, team of the 21st century. In retrospect, none of those OKC guys proved they could will a team to a championship single-handedly. Brunson already did it. Maybe Luka could do it someday. And then he says, time is luck, Stutz from Charlotte. That's a reference to Miami Vice, the movie. Time is luck. Big theme. Heat too. Michael Mann. Um, so the only other one, 2022, the only other one I would say is the what if we kept the team together, but it's not this century, was the '95 Magic. But I do think those two were in the finals. The Brunson thing in a lot of ways was even worse than the Harden, um, the Harden trade, which we hated. And I think we multiple pieces and podcasts about.

It's the first year we're working together. It single-handedly made Grantland's NBA coverage profitable and workable for like 2 years.

It was great. We loved it. We loved getting content out of the Harden trade 'cause it was so stupid. The Brunson thing was worse because it was 4 for 55. And if you remember that last season, even though they said we weren't talking 4 for 55 during the season, Rick Brunson did go to Dallas and say, they— if we— it was like in January of that last season, we'll do the 4 for 55, and Dallas is like, we don't know. I, I still don't understand it. It was inexplicable as it was happening.

Well, it was, it was for trade purposes, right? Like, that was why. That if they extended him, they couldn't trade him at that deadline in case something big came up for Luka. And it turned out that something big was on your team, like the guy that just won Finals MVP and scored 45 points in an all-time great closeout performance.

So what do you think's a bigger— what if we kept this team together team? Game. It's probably still OKC because of the sheer totality of the guys.

I think this is to pick Dallas is a little bit of a prisoner of the moment take because it was, it was just, we like Luka and Brunson clearly could have been special together, but one was still coming off the bench for the most part. And yeah, those three guys together, all of whom have won MVPs in the regular season, is just so iconic and had like, was, we had, we saw proof of concept. They make the finals as like in the roles that they were probably gonna have, or Harden was gonna start eventually. And then poof, it was gone so dramatically and so quickly. Yeah. And they're all such iconic players for all different reasons that I, I still think that's the one.

The other thing Harden would've bought them was backup star power when either guy got hurt, which is what happened the next year in 2013 when Westbrook got hurt in the playoffs. And then in, I think, 2015 with Durant, Everybody.

Yeah. He had the year from hell with injuries.

He also, that 4 for 64, remember he goes to Houston, they immediately give him an even bigger contract than that. 4 for 64 for Harden was like a bargain where the league was going post-lockout. So yeah, tough.

I, I remember everything. I remember Harden's first game, I believe it was against the Detroit Pistons as a Rocket, and it was immediately like, oh my God, this guy's gonna actually do this game in and game out. Holy smokes.

Sid McCollum in Salem, Oregon. He said, uh, I was discussing me being the NBA commissioner and naming House as my deputy commissioner just so he could announce the second round picks. It's a joke I made a month ago. And he said, with House's affinity for food and drinks, my mind went to sponsorship opportunities. For each pick, House comes out with a different food or drink option from different sponsors and league partners and says, Arby's Steak Bites brings us the 31st pick. And with that, the Knicks select blank. I, I'm not going to be the NBA commissioner. I still feel like Kaws could do the second round and they could, they could have food sponsors for each pick. I think he would do better than Mark Tatum, honestly. I think it's a great idea. I think he could be eating when he walks out on stage. Like, I, I think it works.

I think a different surprise second round announcer every year is a great gimmick. Just keep— just, you just got to keep it under wraps and just— oh, here comes the smoke machine.

The NFL does Yeah, I mean, they—

I saw they had different, different people coming out making different announcements, but just one guy could be, could be anyone. It could be a music artist, could be Joe House, it could be you, it could be anybody. I'm available. The more tough to pronounce names, the better for you.

Kobe from Oakland, now in Vancouver, says Harper quickly emerges as a prodigy and potential great, but Fox is in his way. What similar NBA situations from the past can help us predict future outcomes? And he said the first one that came to mind for him was Curry-Ellis, where it was the two of them together. Now, that team had never won anything. This team made the finals. So I came up with four and then I came up with the winner. Okay. I did not prep you for this. No. There was a Cedric Maxwell, Kevin McHale situation where McHale eventually took over, but the, but it was kind of the way it was gonna go anyway. So I don't think that counts.

That was pretty seamless, the transition.

Yeah. There was a James Worthy-Jamal Wilkes situation on those Laker teams, but that was also one guy was getting older, one guy was about to take over. I don't think that counts. There was a Jamal Wilkes-Rick Barry mid-'70s Warriors situation that Jamal Wilkes solved by signing with the Lakers as a free agent, and we never found out. And then there was a Norm Nixon-Magic Johnson situation.

That was the one I thought where you were gonna, you were gonna start with where they traded Norm Nixon, got the the number one pick from the Clippers.

They took Byron Scott, similar to the Jalen Brown trades we were talking earlier. I don't have that as my answer either, 'cause that Laker team won a title. The answer is Adrian Dantley and Dennis Rodman in the late '80s Pistons when they traded Dantley because Rodman had to play more. And that was the whole point of the trade. They had this absolute one, one of a kind rebounding defense force that just needed more minutes, and Dantley wasn't ready to to play less and they solved it by trading for Aguirre, who was Isaiah's buddy. I was gonna say that. Rest of the story, they won 2 titles.

That's all Chicago connection, right? Between Mark Aguirre and Isaiah Thomas.

They won 2 titles. But that's a really good parallel to this 'cause Adrian Dantley, little bit older. The question for me with Fox, 'cause there's some interesting stats about didn't finish at the rim as much this season, not as fast. Like he was probably the fastest or one of the fastest guys in the league, didn't seem as fast. So is there wear and tear? Is he getting older or was he just hurt this year? Did you land on an answer for that?

I think it's probably a little bit of both. I mean, that level of speed and athleticism doesn't last forever. And then you throw in some playoffs, some ill time. He started the year coming back from what it was, a, some sort of leg injury, hamstring or a shin. Yeah. Or something, or calf rather, or something. And then finished it with a high ankle sprain. And, but like also that's life in the NBA. How many guys you, you're not getting through 100 games just like, oh, I was just healthy and energetic the entire year. That's just not realistic. And I, I just think like you can throw all the fake Fox trades you want out right now. Like I don't think any team is trading for him without another season of him kind of rehabbing his game and his trade value a little bit. I, I don't, I don't see any realistic trade this offseason.

So you think he's a top 5 when Wasenhaus and I did the worst contracts draft? He's top 5 for you now? 221 for 4 years.

It's, I mean, it's just a, it's a huge number and people are already like, well, is he the third best guard on his team? And he's a very, very good player. But if you're having that conversation and that number hasn't even kicked in yet, like it's probably in the top 5.

It's a gulp and a sigh when you hear the numbers. It's like, oof. Uh, Steve from Tobaccoville, North Carolina. Sure. He thinks we should have a playoffs participation trophy. Shout out to Vince Goodwill, which goes to— wow, Vince is a nice guy— which goes to the team who lost to the team who lost to the team who lost to the team who lost in the finals. So he said, you're gonna have to— well, I'll walk you through it. The '26 trophy, our winner would have been the Houston Rockets. They lost to the Lakers, who lost to the Thunder, who lost to the Spurs, who lost to the Knicks. This trophy reminds the team's fan base that while they made the playoffs, they weren't anywhere close. Your thoughts?

So it has to be, it has to be a first round loser. That's a first round loser.

It's a first round loser who loses to the team that lost to the team 3 times in a row.

Well, it's not, it's not dissimilar to the thing you hear from fans sometimes of, you know, our team loses in the second round and it's a crushing disappointment. We were the higher seed or whatever it is. Is, and then, but the team we end up losing to ends up winning the title. So I kind of feel better about my, you know, my second round loss. It's, it's a cousin of that. So the Rockets, the turnovers at the end of what was it, game 2 of that series? You're disqualified from all of the awards. I don't, I don't want any of the awards.

Maybe it's not an award. Maybe it's, maybe it's like a, like a voodoo doll or something.

Did we ever figure out what, speaking of which, did we ever figure out what Missoula did with the Coach of the Year trophy? Do we, do we know that?

Oh my God, I look at eBay every day. I'm ready to bid on it on eBay. It's definitely in his garage. Robbie wants to know if Jalen Brunson was actually the best free agent signing of all time and says, I find this hard to believe. You do, Robbie? Well, I have a couple that I think were bigger. Okay. I think Shaq to the Lakers in '96, 8 years, 3 rings, 4 finals, 1 MVP. That's just a bigger signing Brunson, sorry, LeBron and Bosh, Durant to Golden State. That's 2 titles. LeBron back to Cleveland in '14 and then bringing Cleveland a title, I think has to be dead even with Brunson to the Knicks. So I would have it tied for 4th.

I, I think part of the reason why people would make the argument that it should be higher, and I'm not sure that it is, the Shaq one is a great, is a great call and obviously like doomed Orlando forever and ever. And there's all sorts of controversy about who offered what and when and what went wrong and all that. That is it's the only one of those that's not a max, right? Like Brunson is not a max and it, you kind of have to piggyback on top of it the extension that wasn't a max that has allowed them to sort of wiggle around under the second apron for a little while here.

That's going to be Pablo's next 5-part series. Well, he is a Knicks fan. I guess he can't do it. The Jalen taking less. I'm still, I'm still, I don't think, still dubious. I don't think there's any secrets there.

He knew exactly what he was doing. He trusts that he is gonna be taken care of on the back end because he knows all these people, they're his family and he wants to win and it helped them win. I don't think there's any, like, I think it's a unique one-of-one situation. Okay. That is, that is unreplicable.

Couple other ones. Gus Williams to Seattle, that led to a title. Jamal Wilkes to the Lakers. Chauncey Billups to Detroit. Ray Allen to Miami, the Shot. Robert Horry to San Antonio in 2003. And then Nash to Phoenix was a great one. I think if the question is what's the sabbiest free agent of all time, signing of all time, I think Brunson might win where they went higher than a lot of people thought. It was not a well-received signing, right? It was 4 for 106 for the team that wouldn't pay him 4 for 55. And the way it worked out, a couple other random ones, Rashard Lewis and Carlos Boozer, both really good ones. Didn't lead to titles. Rashard Lewis led to a finals. But okay, I'm really excited for this next question. We're almost done, by the way. James, James Phelps. Yeah. Have you been watching the World Cup, Zach Lowe?

I don't want to talk about the World Cup, but yeah, I have been watching some of it.

He likes James Phelps. Likes that in soccer they have specific jersey numbers for certain positions. Attacking mid number 10, striker 9. 9, defensive stopper usually 6. So what would you do for basketball and should we do it? So it's a two-part question. What would the numbers be? 'Cause he said like shooting guard 23, small forward 33. And would you like it more if the best players on teams wore the numbers that the best players wear, like in soccer? I gotta say, I did thought experiment it out and I kind of enjoyed it.

I, I can't believe you, I, I can see you doing this. I can see you, you, you put out a pad and paper and you started, right? You took this, thought about it sometime in your life that could otherwise have been spent with your wife or children. Was spent on this.

The mailbag you have to take to the end with all questions. 23 shooting guard, 21 power forward in honor of Duncan. Okay. 6 for center for Bill Russell. Sure. 33 small forward for Bird. Third, and then 1 or 32 for point guard. I would vote for 32 'cause of Magic. The thinking is the best guys ever would all get the numbers. But I do like, I do like the concept of like if San Antonio right now, it's like Harper Fox is wearing 32. Should Harper have it? It's the point guard number.

Who's getting, yeah. Okay. And Wemby would wear 6 in this. Wemby would wear 6. Yeah. This is particularly artful what you're doing because LeBron is not represented. Except he is, he's wearing 6 and 23, both.

So 23 in soccer, 10 is like the number. I know that much.

That's the best guys.

Luka Modrić. So in this we have 23, which is shooting guard, but it's also like LeBron basically could have played any position. It's not like you can pigeonhole him. So 23 is like the number. And that's, you know, like Orlando, ah, Paolo wanted 23, but Franz thinks he should have it. I think it opens up for a lot of drama.

So you're just, you're just creating trade rumors. You're just creating trade rumors. Whose team is it? You're a whole, Your team is being perhaps Tatum's out for the year.

Jaylen wears, Jaylen wears the 33. 33. Yeah. I, I do, I do like this though.

I think I've been, my mind immediately went to Jay Crowder can't be 99. We, we're just, we were censoring individual expression like this. I mean, like, you know, I, I like numbers. I like being able to pick my number.

Okay. Ethan from Cleveland says, when Giannis forces a trade, It'll be the second time this summer a team owned by Jimmy Haslam has traded a generational talent. He screwed up the Browns and Bucs so badly his teams are forced to trade both Garrett and Giannis in the same offseason. Miles Garrett. Does this move him toward the top of the list of one of the worst owners in recent sports history? I mean, just his Browns work alone has done that. I can't really hang the Bucs stuff on him as much. 'Cause when he got there, it was kind of,— that was one of the reasons that Lassery sold in the first place. 'Cause it was like, I'm gonna get up from this blackjack table right now 'cause they just changed dealers on me. And he just got out. With that said, it is pretty crazy that he presides over those two teams that just traded their two best franchise guys.

They are one of the two teams along with Phoenix that I have to remind myself when I go on Spotrak, I gotta scroll down a little further to the dead money section to get their true cap number. He's like, oh, I— oh my God, Bradley Beal, what are you doing here?

Damian Lillard, oh my God, 22 a year for nothing. I did the—

I did the Suns cap sheet earlier today because of their Gillespie and Jordan Goodwin deals. I was like, oh, they're in pretty good shape. And I scrolled—

ah, yeah, tax dead money sounds like a movie we could rent on Roku. Moses says, my question regarding Darren Peterson: why would anyone draft this guy in the top 3? It's not often we see a guy with this many red flags pan out. I really think he's going to be a bust. I would gamble him at 4, but I would much rather have the other 3. Thanks, love the podcast. What a—

what a— but so he's gonna get— he's a bust and he's like, I'll take him before— that's like, if you're a bust, just go all the way. Just if he's a bust, don't take him.

Moses was all over the place. Um, I do think Peterson has enough red flags that the moment of truth, I'd be a little nervous when these other 3 guys I think are all gonna be really, really, really awesome. Like, you better really be sold on the reasons Peterson had the cramping stuff and some of the other stuff happened last year. I don't— where did you land on him? I mean, that when you look at the YouTube clips, it's outta control.

He's, he looks awesome. I think the upside, I, I think he has scary, scary upside. I would take him with one of the first two picks just because I've heard all of the teams have seen every bit of medical data that they would want to see and have come away feeling like, okay, like there's nothing here that is of long-term concern.

So you like them more than Boozer?

I love Boozer. Boozer's so good. He's incredible. I think his floor is, is maybe even higher than anyone else in the draft and his ceiling's pretty damn high too. I just think those two guys as fulcrums of elite offenses could be so special that I don't know if I could take Boozer over any of them, over either the DiBanza or Peterson. But I, I love Boozer. I was absolutely blown away by the Boozer tape, as I've mentioned several times on the Zach Lowe Show.

This is the most Zach Lowe question possible. It's from Connor in Bend, Oregon. Every time I listen to people praise the Knicks roster construction, I think to myself, My Blazers did it first. 2015. Dame, Wesley Matthews, Nick Batum, Aldridge, Robin Lopez. A season that ended with the Blazers getting dog walked by Memphis, Dame getting his playoff lumps, and Wes tearing his Achilles. Um, with my dread at the possibility of our new owner moving the team, it's nice to imagine another reality where the Blazers won a championship. So Dame wasn't, Dame wasn't really Dame yet. In that playoffs in Memphis, he, he was 16% from 3. Okay. Memphis beat them in 5. But he is right. That was the construction. It was a little bit similar to that Knicks construction. Aldridge left after the season. That Blazers team, I went back, that team was really good on paper. They also, they traded for Uffalo. They had CJ McCollum younger. They had Myers Leonard. They had Allen Crabbe a year away from getting paid $72 million by the Nets. Pretty solid team. The Wes Matthews thing killed them though.

Look, that could be my burner account from Bend, Oregon who emailed that in because I knew you'd love it. It's one of my most beloved forgotten teams ever. I absolutely love that team. It's Nick Batum, it's Robin Lopez, Wesley Matthews. It's everything just came, they were a classic greater than the sum of their parts team and they were super fun to watch. And then one by one it all kind of came undone starting with West tearing his Achilles, and then LA leaves in free agency, I believe, after that, after that playoff loss too. And so that was hanging over the team all year. It was a beautiful team to watch. They won a lot of games, and I do think they had an outside chance of having, like, making a Finals, and they, they just didn't. And that's, that's tough, man. It's hard to win a title.

These two are related. One's from EB who says he's a homer Milwaukee fan. He gets upset that people don't mention Giannis's 50-point closeout Game 6. Why is Brunson's thing over that already? So we had a whole thing about that. And then Jordan from Hoboken said, um, everything you have said on your pods about Jalen Brunson should also apply to Eli Manning. Being an alpha on a championship team trumps everything. Eli did it twice. You bumped Brunson all the way up to 41 on your pantheon, uh, or your pyramid. Imagine if, uh, he did what he did twice. Eli should be in the Hall of Fame, blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah. Here's, here's the difference comparing Brunson to Eli Manning and Giannis. This will be the first podcast.

This is, this is, I, I can't wait for this.

There was a real inevitability with what was happening with Brunson in these fourth quarters that I think kind of, kind of trumped that. Yeah. As great as that Giannis 50-point game was, it was a lot of chewing your nails that he was gonna make free throws and he was was on a little bit of a heater. And then Eli was basically, would have a couple great throws, but it wasn't like he was dominant. What Brunson broke the Spurs by Game 5. I just felt like I just value a little differently what he did the playoffs and especially Game 5. And I, I think it's hard to compare it.

First of all, Giannis's 50-point closeout game is being mentioned because every graphic on television that has had like, here's where Jalen on Brunson's closeout game ranks in NBA history is mentioning that game. It's an all-time classic game. The Drew, the Drew to Giannis lob is one of the craziest, most iconic plays in the NBA. That was game 5 though. Okay. No, that's the end of the series. That's the, that's the last game.

No, game 5 was in Phoenix and then game 6 was the 50-point game. That was the game when he couldn't shoot the free throws.

That's all right. But he, he has a preposterous free throw line in the closeout game.

Yes, he made it. Remember he missed the 2 near the end of game 5. 5, and it was a whole thing of, yo, Giannis's free throws. And then he went on the heater in Game 6. I just, I felt like Brunson was a level above it where, I mean, when it gets to the point where you're down 10 and you're just like, ah, here comes Brunson.

That's, that's a whole other level against, against Wembenyama and that defense too. I mean, look, it's, they're all, it's all incredible, but Brunson, Brunson, Giannis, two great closeout games. I, and, and I don't, you know, I don't have a strong take. I, I guess Brunson, Brunson is just sexier because it's like a 6-foot-nothing point guard in real time problem solving. Hard work. It's a hard work title. Well, it's just problem solving. It's like, you're over there, you're over here. We're gonna do this, we're gonna do that, and I'm just gonna get to my spot no matter what you do and make tough shots. Tough, classic NBA shots. Giannis is not a classic NBA shot, shot maker. Brunson is.

Seth from 707 says, hey Conspiracy Bill. Was that finals loss all part of Wembenyama's long game to convince us that he's not an alien? Yeah. Interesting. So like he's, like he zagged on us cuz he was like, if I win the title at age 22, they might investigate me. I, they might find out where I'm actually from.

I really like this idea. As an ex, as an old school X-Files fan, I'm all about it. Have you seen Disclosure Day yet?

No, I still haven't.

Neither have I. What'd you think? No, I haven't seen it yet.

I'm, I might see it this week.

Sweet. It might be a solo, I'm just gonna drive to movie theater in the middle of the day by myself and watch it.

Man, there's a Chris Paul question here that I'm gonna skip. It was about Chris Paul and the pyramid because we're running outta time. I'll save it for next time. Thiago wanted to mention that he's forever grateful for Leon Ross, Leon Rose and the Knicks. Has there ever been a front office roster combination that saved the image of an owner owner more than these guys save Dolan. Oh, that's a great question. Who is considered one of the stupidest owners of all time, mishandled the team for decades in the market, and now, um, they win the title. It's a really good one. I didn't think of, like, I, I couldn't think of another owner that had his legacy just flip like that. The only one that was close was Steinbrenner in '96 because they hadn't won for 18 years and he kind of, he went crazy, Steinbrenner, in the '80s. And early '90s was like, oh my God, this guy's deranged. And then all of a sudden they built around the farm system and they built this next dynasty and it kind of flipped the Steinbrenner narrative again. Someone I could think of.

So deranged, they had Larry David made a Seinfeld caricature of him and people were like, that sounds about right. Like that doesn't seem too deranged at all.

Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's, that's a good one. And then, uh, there was this email from David Hartman, 'cause I've been talking a lot about home field advantage and home court advantage and what's happened. Friend, and he reminded me that, uh, Wertham and Moskowitz did that book Scorecasting when we were at Gravelin. Yeah. Really good. And the first chapter is about home field advantage. They crunched the data. The waiter, the writers concluded the single biggest factor was referee bias. They dismissed travel, crowd noise, everything else, and concluded subconsciously or subconsciously, the refs don't want to piss off the home crowd. And then he said, in the last 15 years, we have technology replays, we have these referee grading systems are different. Pretty good explanation, right?

I gotta tell you, it's a good explanation. I think the referees are tougher and better trained. Tougher in terms of like, I don't think they care about the crowd. I, I will say I'm getting, it's, it's old man yells at cloud of me. I'm getting pretty close to the, how about we just review nothing solution to basketball? Just like, how about there's no reviews? Because I just, these games just take forever and the reviews sap all the— how about soccer's fast?

Fast. Wow. Soccer, they're banging these out and it's like, how is this 100 times easier than basketball?

Soccer, do— are they stopping the clock for the hydration break in the World Cup? Yeah. Okay. So they're at least stopping the clock for that. Yeah. 'Cause I would love to introduce soccer to the stop and the stopwatch. It's a great, great invention. 7, 7 minutes. Just gonna do 7. Everyone good with that?

7. That would've been funny if they did that for game 5 of the finals. The Spurs now have 2 extra minutes. 4.

Okay, I guess it's 4, just 4 on the dot.

Caleb wants to know, Jimmy Butler demanded a trade from Minnesota because he hated playing with Towns and Wiggins, and now Wiggins and Towns are now champions and Butler is not and likely won't ever be one. Is he gonna snap this summer?

I thought it was gonna, the question was gonna go the other way and say who was, who has been most wrong exiting a team. About the internal makeup of the team they exited.

Pretty, pretty crazy though. Yeah. I mean, did like Cat and Wiggins got it done? Couple more really quick. OG Lawrence from Toronto asked if OG is the GOAT player with no All-Star selections right now. Probably Andre Miller was in the lead before that Finals.

So I did the research. You want to hear the, I did a deep dive. 5, basketball reference. I looked at OG stats and only regular season stats 'cause that's the only way you can do it. And I went over 7,000 career points. He's right around 7,200. PER above 13, win shares above 35, value over replacement player above 10. 'Cause he's, that's where he is. No All-Star appearances. The most points scored for, the answer is no. I just, despite the fact that you can, you know, you have account for what just happened in the playoffs, like 21 a game on insane shooting, the iconic tip-in. I mean, Eddie Johnson has 19,000 career points and never made an All-Star team.

My, our friend Eddie Johnson from, yes, Johnson and Germany.

I was surprised too. He's on this list. Wow. No All-Stars. No All-Stars is not an All-Star as part of my search. Well, he deserves it.

He's a Jokic hater. Eddie Johnson.

That's what you get for hating Jokic. Andre Miller's up there. CJ McCollum just in the news today, like 3 games into this playoffs would've been the answer to this question. And I just think there are too many, you know, Sam Perkins is on here. Robert Horry is on here. That's an interesting one.

Oh, Robert Horry's a good one.

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of, a lot. I'm gonna see who else I wrote down.

'Cause I had Sam Perkins is a nice one too. Yeah. No, there's a lot of, there was Michael Cooper, Marcus Camby, Jason Terry. Lamar Odom is, is on here.

There, there's some good ones. Tony Kukoc.

So what do you think the answer?

I think the answer is I can't right now. No. Just because like the career stats are, and he's missed games, he needs another like 7, 8 years. Yeah. But, but, 'cause those guys are pretty like Jamal Crawford has 19,000 some points. Those are pretty accomplished dudes. Grant Hill is, or I'm sorry, I said George Hill. It's George Hill. Forget it.

No Grant Hill. Your guy George Hill.

I just think there are too many, like Aaron Gordon is a good one for this. Another like, you know, championship Second, third, third wheel kind of.

That's a really good one. Yeah. And, and put us some stats. So I mentioned Mark, Mikael Bridges, by the way, he's on this list too. Consecutive game streak that he's kind of messed around with. Mark, I messed up this email. He said he watched Without Limits. Couldn't help but wonder if the Knicks figured out the Bill Bowerman success equation and basically how he told Steve Fontaine, stop front running. Because he'd lose. You're burning out your gas in the beginning, Spurs style. I screwed this up when I did the pod and I talked about how he would roar from behind. Bowerman was the one that was like, you're expending too much energy, stay behind, come up in the end. And was that basically what the Knicks were doing with the Bill Bowerman strategy of they would let the Spurs punch themselves out basically and then come in late? So I wanted to apologize to him. Okay. Okay, this is the last one, Zach. Jeff M. Oh boy. He said, in honor of From Hell Month on the Rewatchables, 2 coming this week, I wanted to present the case on the Pacers having one of the worst From Hell years in sports history.

We lose the final after our beloved star tears his Achilles in Game 7 after hitting 3 threes. The same star gets shingles, derailing his recovery. Our tank season is rewarded by losing our lottery pick in a 50-50 coin flip. Flip. Our arch nemesis wins the championship without having to play us and simultaneously kills the Halliburton shot and Reggie Miller. It's been one gut punch after another. I fully suspect Halliburton to get attacked with Africanized bees this summer. Okay. Been riding with you for almost 20 years. By far my longest relationship. That's Jeff M. And then Samir chimed in. I've had enough of everyone applauding the '26 Knicks without mentioning they never went through the team that knocked them out the last 2 years. Pacers. I can't remember another NBA team who just got to avoid beating their bugaboo team to win it all. Just a brutal way to wrap up the most devastating Pacers year. So I got a lot of Pacer emails like this. And when you talked about winners and losers, and I think the Nets were the biggest loser of that Finals, I think the Pacers were like second. The Pacers a year ago were riding high with their fans, and a year later, on top of everything else that happened to them, they had to watch the Knicks win the title.

It's Birdle.

You know, it's funny that it didn't pop into my head that way. It funny because the Halliburton shot has been so in my mind because of what happened in Game 1 of the Conference Finals this year where, where the Knicks pulled the reverse comeback and have the shot that hits the rim and bounces in. So it's not like that team's been forgotten. But yeah, you're, you're right. The Pacers eliminated the Knicks 2 years in a row. The first one, I, the Knicks just like ran out of players. I think they were the better team in that series probably. Yeah. And just like everybody got hurt, including Brunson. Anderson in the last game. Anunoby could barely move if you remember that. But yeah, I mean, look, the Pacers, this is why they're one of my more interesting teams coming into the next season. A, like half their team is extension eligible, and B, they just made the Zubac trade that became a little bit more painful for them than maybe they anticipated, but they're loaded for bear next year. Like why not, why not them as your East favorite? Why not?

The biggest question would be Halliburton. What's he gonna look like next next year. Agreed. But Zubats will be better for them. They basically have everybody else back in some form. Same coach, all that stuff. And I, I got an email from Mark G. A couple people asked this too. The Haliburton actually getting hurt in Game 7, is that officially moved into like one of the higher levels of great what-ifs in the history of the league? Absolutely. I, no question. It's also like, if they win that game, does all the Brunson stuff happen with Haliburton last here to some degree. It probably, I mean, his stats weren't as good. He was 18, 9, and 6 in the Finals. Brunson was 33 in the Finals. Like there was something different to what Brunson was doing, but Halliburton was in the vicinity.

What if Oklahoma City has still has not won a title? Like what, I mean, again, if we're doing what-ifs, like they lose that Finals and then that this year happens exactly as it happened and they're still like, right? Like what is this offseason like for them if they haven't won a title? It's also like the one of the most, I mean, there's been obviously like gruesome injuries happen more than you would like. There was just one in a soccer game the other day for Canada, right? Like those are horrible. But in terms of just like taking away the drama and of a big moment like that, I can't remember anything quite on that level to the point that when Brunson went down in game 1 of these finals, I had like PTSD from that. Like you do not, like we've just spent a week hyping up this finals.

Everyone is beyond damn thumb.

Please do not let this be a thing that just erodes the finals. And like that, I can't remember ever feeling like that during a game. Like that was Game 7. Forget that he starts hot and all that. It's like this magical run by a team that pretty much no one saw getting that far in the playoffs and they might actually close the game. That had never won the title. Never won the title. Obviously ABA, they won titles, but 50+ years ago. But like I just, and then the whole game was weird after even the Pacers being, weren't the Pacers ahead at halftime by like, or was it was like a 1-point game at halftime? I mean, it just, it felt like you were a zombie the rest of the night.

SGA talked about it during the playoffs actually saying he wanted to win again because it was so weird the way they won the title the first time. He almost wanted a normal version of the same experience. That Halliburton thing was like a black cloud over that whole night. All right, Zach Lowe doing a podcast tomorrow.

I think so. We, we're all kind of on Giannis, waiting on Giannis and we're on call.

We're like doctors. We're on call with Giannis. Gianis. Yeah. And then, yeah, at the mercy of Gianis trades.

I have a busy sports fan week coming up and so we're gonna have to find ways to, to pod around that. And I'll, during the NBA draft, I will be in, weather permitting, in whatever stadium they're playing in Toronto, watching Croatia play Panama. And I, I can't, I really, it's my first international soccer game, first big international soccer game ever. I really wanted to just like, I want the, I want to sing the songs, I want to drink. I don't want to be sober now. I gotta be sober cuz the draft is gonna be happening. Who knows? I might podcast that night. After the game. I'm robbed of like full hooliganism. I'm robbed.

I think just, just pod the next day. Just have the whole experience.

I'll be there with my, my Croatian brothers and sisters. We gotta, but gotta win this one. Gotta win.

Gotta get a W. All right. Good luck. Thanks for popping on. Gonna bring in Joe House right now to recap the US Open. Oh boy. Bye Zach.

Bye. Have fun.

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There we go. Yeah, we did it.

Hey, we hit Zach Lowe. Hi, Zach. Hi, boys. I saved one last mailbag question for you before you tell us what happened in the US Open. Let's go. Because we did a bunch of Pacer ones, but I had to save this specifically for you. Connor from Indianapolis. Did the last 2 years of the Indiana Pacers mirror the plot in Boogie Nights? Up until Game 7 of 2025 Finals, being a Pacers fan was like being a 1970s Dirk Diggler fan. Things were looking great. Then the ball dropped and it's 1980. Halliburton gets taken out like Little Bill's wife. The team tanks and loses their pick like Amber Waves loses custody of her kid, all while seeing their rival, the Knicks, replace them like Johnny Doe. Watching the Pacers on League Pass was as bad as Dirk's music career. Can you give us more sports parallels to the cast of Boogie Nights with the Pacers? Keeps going. So that would be Kevin Pritchard, the GM, is Jack Horner. Halliburton is Dirk. Pascal Siakam is Zambra Waves. It's my dojo.

We got to do somebody— Kevin Pritchard is, is worse than Jack. Kevin, Kevin Pritchard, yeah, he's, he, he should be in jail for what he did to the—

with the number 5 pick. Yeah. Nemhardt is Reed Rocha. Child. Aaron Neesmith as, uh, as Roller Girl. Sure, you never know when he's just gonna pop in and change a game. TJ McConnell is Becky Barnett. OJ— OG Toppin is Buck. It's pretty good. Kind of never know where he fits in, but he's always ambitious. Miles Turner, definitely Little Bill. It's just out. Uh, Matherin is Todd Parker. Todd! And then, uh, Brunson's Johnny Doe. And I think that's it. I think that's it for the— yeah, I did. Bugging out some Pacers for you. Okay, great job. So we started this live podcast during the last few holes of the US Open. I assumed Wyndham Clark was gonna take care of business. You're gonna be talking about it with Nathan later tonight on Fairway Rollin', but he made it a little hairy. He won by a stroke. What happened?

He bogeyed the 17th hole, which is a par 3. He was on the green and, you know, he left himself— this was part of his, his true, uh, secret sauce this entire golf tournament. He made so many, uh, pars from, you know, 10 feet, from 6 feet, from 13 feet. He saved par like crazy. And then it came all the way down to the very end and the 17th hole, he had a reasonable 5 or 6-footer, um, and he gacked it. He gacked it. But he, he validated because he came out on the 18th hole, he, uh, his approach was short, he was 52 feet from the hole, uh, on his, uh, the putt that he had on the 18th hole, he needed to, to get down in 2 to win the golf tournament and he putted to like 2 inches. I mean, it was an awesome putt that he made on 18.

So you were in for the playoff and you also don't, you're not a big Wyndham Clark guy.

Well, I, I don't, I, I don't think I'm alone in that.

Uh, yeah, can we dive into this? Sure. Yeah, so he wins wire to wire and he's American and it's US Open. And yet you could feel it in the crowd all weekend. Tepid applause for the good shots. And then if something bad happened, you could hear a couple people doing like cheering over there. It was just what it seems like all these little tiny things that he did, but nothing major, but they all added up and people have just decided, I don't like this guy.

Well, there were, there was a back-to-back, speaking of major a bit of misbehavior last year at 2025 at the PGA Championship. He threw his driver, snapped it, and it came close to hitting somebody behind him. He was angry with the shot with his driver, snapped it, threw it, and, and almost hit somebody.

Well, maybe that person shouldn't have been there. Well, that person was standing behind the tee.

I mean, that person was not in harm's way, should not have been in harm's way. And then he, he, uh, the, the real cherry on top, the, the, the, the most infamous infamous misbehavior was at Oakmont, where the US Open was conducted last year outside of Pittsburgh. One of America's all-time great courses, a great US Open venue with all of this history. Like when you walk into the clubhouse, the history, it's, it's the same, you know, floors that people have been walking on. And when you go up to the locker room, they still have the wooden benches that have spike marks that, that are there that have been there for 80 years or. And homie played terrible on, I think Friday, and went up in there with some kind of, of weapon and smashed in one of these lockers that have been there for, you know, decades. And kind of rolled out without going or, you know, doing the appropriate— is that doing a my bad? Yeah. No, my bad. And so, you know, he's been living with that since and, and it really made him unpopular. And there was not a giant act of remorse and contrition to follow quickly enough, I think, for at least sort of golf sickos to where it was clear like he has owned it since then.

And he did, you know, pay for restitution. He did make a charitable contribution.

So he basically became Patrick Reed from this. A little bit, yes.

And, you know, in some respects we've been missing, speaking of Patrick Reed, a villain in golf.

I was gonna say, all this sounds great. I like— we always talk about how fucking boring golfers are, and then we have a guy destroy a locker at Oakmont.

Everybody's like, put him in fucking jail. You're right. Put him in a straight jacket.

Definitely. People get so mad. Pick a side. Do we want charismatic fucking crazy golfers or just boring guys? What do we want?

Well, he, he got his act together, and today was especially, uh, compelling because the entire crowd was rooting for Scottie Scottie Scheffler, who he was playing with. He was— the crowd was rooting for Scottie Scheffler because it was Scottie's chance to, to win the Grand Slam, his first chance to complete the Grand Slam.

He didn't have it. I watched the first 15 holes before we went live on Netflix, and he just, he couldn't get it going.

Every time, I mean, he was getting, you know, his, his— especially on the back, his approach play was very good. He was putting himself in position to make birdies. He just couldn't get any of those putts to drop. And Clark hung on. He got out to far enough lead on Thursday, he just hung on for dear life. I mean, after Thursday, he shot 2 over par over his remaining 3 rounds.

But not the right 2 over for you because you had— you were shorting him yesterday. I sure did short him yesterday with some wagers. That's true.

I had him over 71.5 strokes yesterday.

He did that today. Did you have that today? I didn't touch it today.

I left alone there all, all the betting.

Well, he And it was a classic. He's up 6. Whoa, now he's up 3. Yes. Yes. Like within like half hour of when the tournament started, there was regression built into the performance.

Especially yesterday. I mean, he really pulled the, the Saturday round even par out of his butt. I mean, it was a miracle that he saved par from, from several of the places. And he, he had really the, the, the whole of the tournament was the eagle that he made on 16 on Saturday. In front of no fans whatsoever. Because yesterday, Saturday, they started the final groups off at 3:45, 3, you know, 3:30 in the afternoon, because they wanted for television purposes to— for it to be some prime time and for that golf course, you know, out there in the Hamptons to get some of that late afternoon glow. Everybody got the fuck out of there. Everybody's like, I'm not sticking around to watch this. There's trains that take 2 hours to get to New York. So the golf course is basically empty, but the shot of the tournament was his approach on the 16th hole. He made eagle, the only guy the entire golf tournament to make eagle on 16. And that, that to me was really the thing that—

well, he won by a stroke, so that ended up winning him the tournament. Yeah. And then, uh, Sam Burns was, was great today. I got to see his whole round.

Hard charge.

He did it. 49-footer at one point and did the whole thing, but it just—

he had putts on 17 and 18. If either one of those fall— now he didn't really make a great stroke on the— on 17, but on 18 that ball was half a rotation from going into the hole, and then we would have had a playoff, and then that would have been something.

Uh, would that have been 18-hole playoff or just a sudden—

no, so they changed that rule. It's now a like 2-hole aggregate, and I think they play the same hole on, on repeat.

That's right, I forgot they did that. It just a little while. Yeah, I remember that. Um, all right, so what's your grade for the tournament overall? It sounds like it was a— like all the golf threads we're on and all the people we know, everybody like really seemed like they enjoyed rooting against Wyndham Clark, which is like a fun— it's a fun wrinkle for a golf tournament. It was like we don't really have the American villain ever.

Yeah, we, we didn't get kind of the, the carnage that this this golf course can deliver because the— there was anticipated wind in the forecast Thursday and Friday and it never really materialized. Wyndham Clark was supposed to be on the wrong side of the weather forecast on Thursday. His 64 was what won him the golf tournament, uh, 64 Thursday afternoon when the winds were supposed to be at their worst. So that, that piece of it, and the— there was some complaints, you know, the, the USGA They was very careful to not have the golf course get away from them to where the balls were going to be because of the wind, you know, just rolling off willy-nilly. So they watered the golf course, and there were some complaints that it was a little bit too easy earlier on. But, you know, I give it the whole thing overall, I guess, a solid B. I mean, wire to wire is pretty impressive out of Wyndham. He went out and did, did the damn thing. And we got one hard charge out of Sam Burns on Sunday, which is, I guess, all you could ask.

We needed somebody to do it. Yeah, 6-stroke lead going into Sunday.

Um, you know, leaves a lot to be desired in terms of the drama, but we got some drama.

I'm asking Claude right now, how many two-time US champions in golf have there been? What's the answer? I think 6, 7 US. He won this a couple years ago in '23. Yes. And then he wins this one. It's more than, than 6 or 7. Claude's still thinking.

Yeah, it's more than 6 'cause Tiger and Jack Tiger and Jack both have multiple.

24 men. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Have done it.

I was thinking about, there was a stat about how quickly guys have won, you know, after you win one, how quickly do you win your second? And he's in, in the top handful of guys. He did it, you know, in, in pretty short order.

Where is he in the, the pecking order for American golfers now? Pretty high.

Yeah, I mean, he immediately puts— he, he changed his, his putter at the Masters this year, and he was like putting 135th on tour going into that tournament, and now he's number 1 on tour. And it was his putter that saved his ass all week long. And now it seems like the sky's the limit with the confidence that he has putting-wise, because, you know, this, this Shinnecock is an enormous putting challenge. And, you know, he was all around though very good off the tee. He was in the top 15 in his short game. He was top 15 and his putting, he was top 5. That's how you win a US Open.

But he's, he's pushing long-ass fucking drives too. Jesus Christ.

Yeah. Oh, well, because they, they had the benefit of a very firm golf course. So a lot, you know, yeah. Bryson had a 401-yard drive on the 18th hole before he missed the cut on Friday. But the, yeah, by the way, that was your best pick of the week. Week. Thank you. Yes, I did.

You shorted Bryson. You said he wasn't gonna make the cut. I did say that. What was that, like 4 to 1? 3 to 1?

Something like that. No, no, the odds went way down. It, it started off near 2 to 1 for the week. And then as it got to be Wednesday going into Thursday, America woke up and jumped on it. I would like to say very humbly on Fairway Rolling 2 weeks ago, I said I am betting to win at the US Open, Wyndham Clark and Sam Burns. I had 2 2 picks that were from weeks ago that I said I just want to have some money down. At the time, Sam Burns was 40-to-1, and at the time, Wyndham Clark was 35-to-1. So, um, you could just see those— both of those guys coming in, in very good—

you should, you should text me that info as you're asking to borrow money to pay for your Saturday Wyndham Clark bets.

Well, you could, you could also listen to the show. You could listen to the show.

That, I mean, that would be another thing. I'm just trying to, you know, because you did get killed on Saturday. I got— you were telling me Windham was gonna hit like a 75. I thought he was going to shoot 73. Listen, there's so much to bet on right now. It's at— I mean, this World Cup, I'm just wading into these. I'm not even asking to bundle anymore. I'm just like, ah, Belgium.

All right, I, I walked right into it. Hench, uh, put Turkey into a parlay for us, even after I swore off Turkey. I told everybody never betting on Turkey again.

All they did was was take shots on the net that didn't go in for 2 hours.

Turkey. Sons of bitches. And I did it. Unbelievable.

I had a 3-team parlay on Friday and that was the last piece. It was like 4 to 1. And then all they did was just shoot the ball over the net and head the ball to the side.

We, we said don't bet on Turkey anymore. And then we did it. 'Cause we're morons. Unbelievable. Paraguay, park the bus. What team is Giannis on?

I missed you and, and I wanna, but we don't know. He, he's gonna wait until the most inappropriate time possible to the trade's gonna be announced. The draft. Draft. Yeah, like one minute before the draft. Um, I've loved the World Cup though. Have you? Are you— did you get patriotic on Friday?

Oh, I mean, you know, it's must-see TV at this point now. This is because of how dominant US was against Paraguay and, and the like eye-opening reaction to the soccer— by the soccer community. Yeah, taking US seriously. Like, well, oh, if, if the soccer community is invested in this team and thinks that they're capable of great things, then I want to see it. I want to see what they're capable love. And I thought that performance against Australia, that was a trap game. But they didn't get trapped. They let themselves, you know, go out and feel it. I love my, my guy is McKinney. I love that guy McKinney. I feel like he's the, the straw that stirs the drink.

I love, I honestly, they had the most likable group of dudes they've had. I love Jedi. Hmm. The Freeman. How about that? Antonio Freeman's son. Amazing.

Unbelievable. This is what we've been begging for. Yeah. Right.

These are, these guys are badasses.

They, they, let's get our athletes.

I didn't feel like we flopped that much. I just really, Balogun's been great.

And we'll get Pulisic healthy.

That's the key. What's happening with your team on Tuesday night? They're gonna score. You still think you're taking AJ? I sure do. Yes, I do think that. 'Cause they're trying to, this always happens around the draft where it's like sources say the, the Wizards taking a longer look at Darren Peterson. It's like they're taking AJ.

My phone has sources say they're taking a long look at Peterson, and that's just people said, telling that, saying that to me. But I, I'm not, I'm not permitting it.

I'm not, I'm not acknowledging it. AJ1, I heard Utah maybe had a secret workout of Peterson this weekend. Okay. I don't know what happens at 2 though. I still think they're taking Boozer, but But if, you know, one workout and obviously they have to do all the diligence on Peterson. What would you do if you were Utah? Take Boozer. I would take Boozer too.

I think he raises their floor. And for that team, what they've assembled, you want somebody that's not a question mark in any way, shape, or form that can immediately come in and help the overall, you know, help the tide rise up. Up, you know, and be on the same timeline.

I like having crazy front court depth and figuring it out because I think it's easier to get guards than— you don't have another pick though, right? Uh, no, I think that's— you don't have one in the first time. All right, and you'll try to trade Anthony Davis at some point. Um, all right, you have to go do fairway rowing. Let's go! See you on Tuesday night live right after the draft. Me, you, J. Kyle Mann, right afterwards. Uh, I cannot wait. We'll do winners and losers all kinds of stuff. Maybe we don't need drunk house, but maybe like a couple drinks house. Yeah, I have to toast AJ.

I have to welcome AJ to the city with an appropriate toast.

Probably maybe sing a little Washington song. Um, well, thanks to Zach Lowe, thanks to Joe House. I'll see you on Tuesday night. Thanks to Gahow and Eduardo as well. Thanks to everybody who watched on Netflix. I'm gonna see you again on, uh, on Tuesday night. Thanks, House. My pleasure. Pleasure. Must be 21+ and present in select states. For Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18+ and present in DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 877-8-HOPE-NY, or text HOPE-NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 877-770-7867.