Transcript of England Survives, the Jaylen Trade Fallout, and an All-NBA Mailbag With Zach Lowe

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This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by PayPal. You know a clutch move when you see one. A no-look pass, a buzzer beater, a big steal. Well, imagine if your wallet could pull off moves like that. That, my friends, is PayPal. Right now you can find offers from hundreds of brands like Sony, Allbirds, and Viator, and save offers before you check out. Earn unlimited rewards. Plus you can add those rewards on top of credit card points. Now that is clutch. Download the PayPal app today. Save those offers. Start scoring rewards. Terms and exclusions apply. See paypal.com/rewardsterms. Credit card points subject to issuers' terms and conditions. All right, it's the Bill Simmons Podcast. We are recording. It is 8:22 Pacific time. Zach Lowe, kind enough to stay up late. We thought we were gonna be on Netflix go doing a live, but we had some tech issues, but we're gonna get the pod going. I wanted to mention new rewatchables coming tomorrow. Ali, we're doing, from Hell Month is over. It ended on July 1st with the Jaylen Brown trade. Zach Lowe has, how many podcasts you doing this week? At least 2?

I don't know. Yeah, 2. 2 is the floor for this time of year.

What's the over-under? Is 1.5? Okay. Yeah, um, we're gonna do a bunch of basketball stuff in a second, but we just watched England-Mexico. The World Cup, there's a weightiness.

I—

it's in— there's just nothing like it. I was trying to think of other games that feel this way, and like the Super Bowl can't feel this way because it's a neutral location. Basketball, we, we can get like 40% to where we got to tonight, but there's something different about countries a place like Azteca, which I've been to, which I'll talk to in a second, but there's just nothing else like this, right? Every 4 years, the pressure, if you blow it, you don't come back now until 2030. I, I just, I, I'm kind of drained after that game and I didn't really care who won.

I'm drained after every game. It, there is nothing like it. It's the every 4 years thing. So any missed opportunity, it feels like you've missed the opportunity of a lifetime that you'll never get back again. It's that every game is like, there's no game, no, there's no like Mexico can make adjustments for game 2 against England tomorrow. They're just out. It's over. And even in group, even in group, even in group play, if you're in a hard group, like it's hard to just get out of your group. They, they aren't elimination games, but they start to feel like elimination games really, really fast. And it's just, it's too much, man. It's too much. And I don't understand enough of the rules, but that's neither here nor there.

It was one of the most bonkers games ever where we had, you know, England goes up 2-0 in 5 seconds. Then all of a sudden we get a penalty kick, we get another penalty kick. Then all of a sudden England's playing, playing a man down forever, and Mexico's just doing cross after cross after cross after cross. And guy, and every time you're just having a heart attack. Uh, I went to Azteca in 2009. I wrote a, wrote a column about it. I went for a USA-Mexico qualifier and It was one of the great sports experiences I've ever had. The place is— you can't even describe it. You can't feel more unsafe. It's like kind of designed— it's designed to make everybody feel unsafe who isn't on Mexico's side. That's what they do.

That— and the—

it's really close to the field. They're throwing stuff at the players in the corner kicks. Um, and, and it's just getting in and out, you're nervous and you're always wondering like, what's the mood gonna be if This is a terrible loss for Mexico. How do we get outta here? And I'm sure that's what it was like. You're watching England at the end. They had the one section, they're singing Wonderwall, which was really cool. And then it's like, okay, now you guys have to get outta here. And these fans are mad and you've just ruined the next, uh, 4 years of sports for them.

So, uh, and you're not, and you're not well disguised walking the streets of Mexico City after the game.

You're not. Uh, you could, that first goal that England scored. This is the same sound that when I was there, America scored the first goal and lost 2-1. They scored the first goal and it was like, you know, when it's like a mute button for a crowd where it's like, ah, and it's like, what happened? Where'd all, like, where'd all the sound go? It's gone. That was one of those. And then conversely, when they score, it's like the loudest, most joyous thing ever. But I thought it was an incredible win for England to win, to go in that place. I don't think Mexico had lost. Uh, like kind of a real international game in 13 years. Um, England's probably the best team they played over that last 13 years. But, um, the stakes— I was trying to think, like, if basketball worked this way, so this would basically be the Indiana Pacers stadium, right? If we made it even closer to the court, and then Indiana had I don't know, 1,000 times as many people and all they cared about was basketball. And then this weight of the, basically the playoffs are every 4 years.

I, I didn't even know how to do the formula in my head, but that's the only thing I could think of. 'Cause that, that Consejo Fieldhouse is the only basketball arena I felt that kind of reminded me of Azteca.

Well, did you, and did you hear the stuff? I mean, I, I think they were mentioning this on the broadcast, how the Mexico City fans found what hotel England was staying at and were, were, were like lighting fireworks, shooting fireworks.

Yeah.

And spraying the buses on the way with like, I don't know if it was shaving cream or something. This is like old school, try to call the player's hotel room at 4 in the morning and figure out what their pseudonym is. This is like old school fan stuff. It's great. Home soil really seems to mean a lot in soccer as it's kind of dying in the NBA as a huge advantage. But yeah, I look, I know nothing. I'm just an idiot American soccer fan who like checks in every once in a while. I just like England, that, that seemed like a really rugged win for England in that stadium down a guy. And like Mexico had the ball the entire last 25 minutes of the game, but they didn't get like sensational chance after sensational chance. Their best chances were in the first half. And Pickford, who my, one of my hot World Cup takes is Pickford is now the 3 consecutive World Cup winner of most punchable face in the World Cup. But man, he showed up huge, man. Like some truly amazing saves. But I still, he still has a very punchable face.

I'm sure he would beat me up, but it's very punchable.

And Bellingham was amazing.

Oh my God. What an athlete.

Because Kane's the quote unquote signature star of the team. And then Bellingham is kind of— I'm trying to think of a basketball analogy of this. Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum in the 2024 playoffs. Oh boy. Too soon. Yeah, too soon. Yeah.

Yeah.

So we have America tomorrow and CR and Debundo and I are going to be going live after that game. And America has a chance to go to the final 8.

That's right.

Which feels like, feels pretty significant. What's the first World Cup you remember?

Oh, I mean, I remember '94 basically just because it was the one that was in the States.

It was the formative one.

Yeah. It was so, it was such a big deal. I was in high school and I was like the classic dumb American. I had a couple friends who played soccer and they were like trying to sell me on what a big deal this was and what a great sport it was. And I was like just the classic guy. And my dad still is this guy. He was like, every game is 0-0.

It's so boring.

1-1, nil-nil. Nil. It was like, I, I just was like totally ignorant, closed-minded. And it turns out it's just wildly exciting to the point of being like impossible for me to watch when I actually care about the game. But I remember Carlos Valderrama at the Colombian team, the tragedy afterwards. Roberto Baggio, I think, was that the one where Baggio misses a penalty kick at the end of that one? So that was the, that was the first one where it was like really truly in my life.

That was the one where, um, It felt like soccer had a chance to get real momentum in America. And then we just kept saying that for the next, I don't know, 30, 35, 40 years. But now I think it, there's a variety of reasons for it, but I think the main reason other than the games have been really entertaining and there's also big stars in the different countries that you wanna see, but it's just having the games lined up to an American TV schedule has been great. You know, even like during Fourth of July weekend, just to know that these games are coming on, basically, basically everybody's planning their stuff for the weekend or whatever around these games. And even countries that you didn't even know who's on it. And then you have like Haaland on Norway, who is, you know, one of the best players in the world. It's not like, you know, but like my wife doesn't know who that is. She doesn't watch Man City. So then, you know, people like that, it's just, it just feels like, Everybody's watching this.

I know of him because all my dad friends are big Premier League fans and they've tried to get me to become a Premier League fan. I'm just like, I'm like you when you try to make— when you try to pick Tottenham, I'm like, I can't. I'm 48 years old. I can't like pick a team and pretend like I care about this team out of nowhere. I can't do it. So I don't. But I know of him. But this is my first time really watching him play. The guy's just like, I'm just— I just watch him. And he's just like walking around, standing around, walking around, turns over here, turns over. Then the ball comes and he scores. It's like this guy's just a machine. He's built to score goals. He's amazing.

He's like a shark in the water. He just kind of swims around and waits, waits for like somebody's arm to fall in the water or something.

I am, I would like to announce I am now throwing my allegiance with Croatia out, and we will address this topic soon. I am, I am now throwing my allegiance behind Norway for the rest of the, for the rest of the tournament. The full, the full, the full force of the Lowe family household is behind Norway.

Did that lady, the GIF of that lady in the Croatian jersey screaming fuck you at the top of her lungs, did that sum up the entire Lowe family's feelings on the game?

My wife was at the game and she had an absolutely hellish travel story to get to the game and they made it 15 minutes before kickoff. But I just, look, explain it to me. Can someone explain it to me? Explain it to me. I don't understand it. It maybe, maybe hit a hair follicle and there was this minor spike on the fucking VAR chip, the chip that's in the ball. But we can't really say if the spike happened at the exact time it hit the guy's hair follicle. And if it didn't hit the hair follicle, it's a good goal. You robbed us of— I don't know soccer well enough to say this, but I'll just say it— the greatest, most dramatic equalizing goal, like, ever, basically, with 1 second left in the game. We never know how much time is left in the game. I don't know how soccer hasn't finished this.

Okay.

I think the game's over now, but it was basically the end of the game. They tie the game or just give us extra time. Who wants to? I tell you, between the NBA and this, I am getting closer and closer to just, let's just have no more replay. Let's just not, let's just live with the results on the field because this all, this stuff is all nonsense. All the reviews are endless. They go to the VAR, the nerds are in the VAR. Oh, look at Spike, a little shark fin spike on the graph. Croatia's out of the World Cup. We don't have another game. We're done. We're out. I have some other hot takes about the World Cup.

That was a really good rant. I— here's my— what if we just went replay across all sports? No slow-mo.

Yeah, like, I— sure.

You just get to watch it in real speed 3 times and then make a decision and let's keep going.

I don't want to watch NBA refs huddle up anymore. I'm done. I'm done. It's great. Did you get your— to Zach Zarba, you're so handsome. You get your TV time. And Billy Kennedy with your facial expressions. It's over. It's over. It jumped the shark. You're done.

So you're out on VAR too?

VAR sucks. I don't know what VAR— throw VAR into the fucking ocean. I'd light VAR on fire. I just—

I hate all the people who do the VAR. I like Brockie Lightninette's that close, my friend.

I have two other World Cup takes that I have to go.

Well, can I, can I follow up on your VAR and then we'll go to your takes?

Yeah, sure.

I just feel like the offsides, it shouldn't be like, oh, you were fingernail offsides or no, I like, it should all be a distinct offsides.

Ronaldo had a goal called back against Croatia, 2 goals called back on offsides that were whatever, and Ronaldo had 1. Ronaldo's goal should have counted. It's all stupid. The whole thing is stupid.

What are your other 2 takes?

All right, number 1, and this, this I, this I transpose onto other international competitions. I, and I understand why it is, but I don't think the host nation should get tier 1 status in the World Cup. So like Canada, US, and Mexico are treated like the top 8 teams in the world when it comes to formatting the groups. Same thing with the Olympics in basketball. Only 12 teams make it. I don't think the host nation should automatically get in. Like, remember when England was in, when London, it was like, what are we doing? Yeah. It's like, and my other, I, I don't know the formula. Someone will have to research it. I think they should reseed the World Cup after the group stages because it's just a random who plays who, second place here. And you have like heavyweight clashes and then you have Argentina who could like walk into the semifinals because of how the draw broke for them. And I will admit Croatia benefited from this greatly in 2018 when their entire side of the bracket after the group stage just was like a wasteland of teams. Like all the best teams were out and they just walked into the finals or the semifinals.

Anyway, those are my two takes.

So would you do the reseating for basketball in the playoffs? Yeah. 'Cause the reason they don't do this is 'cause the schedule, then everybody has to wait for the end of every round to keep going with the next round.

I just feel like it's, it's less of a problem because of 7-game series and you know, you're already down to 4 teams in each conference. Like what are the chances it's gonna be that much of a crime? But, but that is a cousin of my and your, I think too, the number 1 seed should be able to get, be able to pick its first round opponent, which I do support in the NBA.

In football, they reseed after every round, which I like. And I don't, and it, when it's a winner take all one game, it feels like the reseed should be a little bit more advantage for the teams that have earned some sort of like— and by the way, privilege.

I'm willing to admit that this is probably enraging actual soccer fans who have poured their life's work into figuring this out and why this happened. This is just me. I'm just— I'm just— this is how I feel. I'm emotional. I'm still— it's 3 days later. I'm still angry. I will be cheering for Spain tomorrow out of spite for Portugal. That's just how I roll in the world.

You're going to spite cheer? I didn't realize that.

Yeah.

That's really the last level. Yeah, I got a, I actually got a couple different emails about the same topic about levels of losing with Croatia.

Oh, great.

But then even worse was the Iran where they had it and then it got called back, but then they were still alive. And then they had that stupid game where the teams had basically agreed to have a tie and then somebody scored. So then Iran was like, all of a sudden they had been given a reprieve, but then the other team scored. And they got kicked in the nuts again, which would— and people are saying that's like basically hasn't happened before. But I do think the, uh, the we scored the game-tying goal with like under a minute left in a World Cup game and then, and then it got reviewed and became offsides is some sort of level of losing of its own. Maybe football would be the only— like if, if you had a touchdown and then it turned out the guy was was on the line. Durant, I guess, with the toe on the line would be the equivalent of the Croatia goal.

But we know his toe was on the line.

I know, but in the moment, if you were just watching it, you thought it was a 3. You didn't realize his toe was on the line. But the Croatia thing, then you just lost.

It was tough. It was tough. And, you know, it was tough. I won't elaborate too much more. That was a tough one.

Well, I've loved the World Cup. I've been betting on it. I feel like I'm getting good at betting on it. Knock on wood.

Oh boy. That is famous last words.

I had Norway and I had Norway parlayed with England today. I'm, I'm like on a heater.

Oh my God.

Yeah. I like have opinions. I watch things. I'm like, I don't know. I think Holland's too big for—

this is gonna get clipped so badly when you lose your next 4 bets in a row. But this—

oh, I'm definitely gonna lose. Well, I had, I had another parlay with I have, I had Norway, England with Spain tomorrow and the US tomorrow. It was like 23 to 1. So, uh, seems good.

That seems like a good, a good one, especially since, uh, you know, there was some intervention that took place to, uh, overturn a red card, which no one had thought was really a thing that could ever happen, but it has happened.

Yeah, we had some sort of legislation with, uh, with the president apparently got involved. I guess a bunch of, I got a bunch of emails about it in the last 24 hours about this would be kind of what the sports czar would do. If we did have a sports czar, like, you try to intervene and bully them into repealing the red card for Balogun. I guess my thing with the cards is I don't think it should be a red card after a review, like what happened, because they— like, to me, red card is like intent, or it's like when you're breaking a clear soccer rule. Like, whatever he did, Balogun, on that play, to me, that's not a, oh, you're out for half this game and then all the next game because you accidentally stepped on somebody's ankle. It feels like they need a third card. It's like a pink card where you, you get red carded, you're out for the game, but you get to come back the next game. I was wondering if FIFA could overturn Draymond not playing in Game 5 of the 2016 Finals. If we could just go backwards now.

Well, where was the Croatian government at the end of that game? Like I wanted, I remember Krokop, the MMA fighter. I, what I want is like send him into VAR and they cut to the VAR guys reviewing and he's just beating the shit out of all of them. Like Jason Bourne throwing 'em against the wall. Mm-hmm. There's no VAR.

Goal counts.

Where were we on this?

All right, well, I'm sorry about Croatia. That's enough soccer talk for us. CR and the Bundown Iron coming on right after, uh, the American game tomorrow. Balogun's back. We have our, we have our striker. I thought he was the best player we had. Um, we're gonna take a break. Lots of, uh, 72 hours after one of the strangest trades in the history of the league. I have a nice mailbag. I only prepped you for one question, and we're gonna go right after this. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We are in the heart of the World Cup. Look at these little special bottles for Michelob Ultra. Uh, every play matters here. FIFA World Cup 26 for you. The stakes are just as high. Michelob Ultra, the official beer sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 26, is giving you a chance to win $1 million worth of tickets and prizes. Michelob Ultra. From the pitch to the poor. Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at mclubeultra.com/superioraccess/fifaworldcup26. Mclube Ultra FIFA World Cup '26 Superior Access. No purchase necessary. Open to US residents 21+. Begins on December 1st, 2025. Ends on July 31st, 2026.

Multiple entry periods. Visit www.mikulovultr.com/superioraccess/fifaworldcup26 for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. All right, so it's been 4 days since one of the weirdest trades in the history of the National Basketball Association. You talk to people, there's texting, you text with people, maybe you send a couple emails back and forth with people, uh, you talk on the phone with people. Does anyone know anything? What are people saying? What is the, what is the consensus around the league for, wow, why did Boston do this?

The consensus is you can't really find anyone who thinks it was a good trade for Boston, first of all. Second of all, the consensus is it must have just been, the bridge must have been burned to the point of no return and the Celtics just wanted out. Of the Jaylen Brown business for reasons that we may not fully understand but may one day fully understand. Because this return is, I think, surprisingly low, even if people in the league sort of had a conception that Jaylen Brown's trade value was not going to match his sort of all first team, second team this year, All-NBA reputation, 6th in MVP voting, all that. Mostly, I think, because of his salary more than any analytics or this and that. It's the salary and his sort of just like standing in the league. But even so, there was just surprise that they chose to make this deal. Now there's basically an agreement that it's not as if this deal was going to ever go away. Like, the Sixers would do this deal in September and October and August. So why did they feel pressure to do it now? And you can find people who will, will caution that in a year, a year and a half, this deal will look less bad for Boston than it does today.

And it probably will. But you can't really find any fans of it.

Do you want to know what day I landed on? Was Paul George a better trade asset than maybe all of us realized?

Right now, the second.

Yeah, it was, it was this morning in the shower. I was thinking about it. It's like, well, Paul George was really good in that playoff series. Went back, looked at his stats. He played 5 Clipper seasons, 23-6-5 for the 5 Clipper seasons. 39% from 3, 3.43s a game, Zach. 3 All-Star teams. The 2 Philly seasons were not as good. Some issues, some injuries. There's the 25-game drug suspension. I will say though, last 10 games after he came back, 21 a game, 42% from 3, and the playoffs, he was 16 a game, 49% from 3. I went back and looked at my notes from after Game 6 and then after Game 7, and I repeatedly wrote down Paul George was the best forward in the series, and he has actually revived his trade value to the point that maybe they can get rid of him. I did not think they would get rid of him for Jaylen Brown, but, um, from where we were with him in March to now, is it, is it possible that they really like Paul George just as a player for their team? Because I think it is. And I, by the way, I don't agree with this opinion.

I'm not saying they're right.

I was going to say that was, that was one of the sadder 1-minute segments in the history of the Bill Simmons Podcast and its predecessor. That was, it made me sad. I, I just, I felt, I agree. I, I didn't know how to react to it.

Um, well, when you're looking for answers, Zach, you look for answers. You turn over every stone.

I could tell your heart wasn't in it. I mean, you were giving it an honest try. I respect it, but your heart wasn't in it.

It was not. I tried, I really tried.

I don't think that the Celtics believe that Paul George is wildly underrated, a diamond in the rough, ready to average 22 points a game again next season. I think they know exactly who Paul George is. They don't have un— they, they think he's gonna be a nice, you know, third, fourth option, 3-point shooter, good defender, all of that. They think he fits into how Mazzulla wants to play. They'll win a lot of regular season games. I said even in my pessimistic trade reaction, this team is a regular season wins machine. I think they're gonna win 50 games and be in contention. I mean, you can't just put almost anyone other than the very, very best teams in the East, like no-brainer lock top 6. They're counting a lot on Mitchell Robinson to change their offensive rebounding and shot profile at the rim 'cause they lost some rim pressure in the Jaylen Brown-Paul George exchange. And rim pressure was all Brad Stevens talked about in that postmortem, and they lost some in that.

And now, and now they have a guy who doesn't shoot free throws, and Mitchell Robinson's injured all the time too.

And so I, but I don't— to answer your question, I don't think the Celtics are like, we've been secretly coveting Paul George. They know exactly what he is. I think this is just more about the time, whether it, whether it is an overreaction to the Philly series going bad, whether it's an understanding that putting Jaylen Brown back into a 1B role was going to cause all sorts of issues, whether it's we've always thought he was a little overrated and compared to his salary, compared to his salary, to be clear. And this is the time to act with, with 3 years left on the deal. I, I, it might be all those, but I don't think it's like we, we love Paul George like we did 10 years ago when we tried to trade for him.

I agree. I do wonder though if their thinking was you put Tatum in all the Brown minutes from last year with the same kind of offensive responsibility, and then you shift Paul George into this supplemental role that they just obviously decided Jaylen Brown was never gonna want to play. Um, that they talk themselves into will actually still be really good. 'Cause the, the weirdest thing to me is this is the opposite of a new owner syndrome trade, right? Usually the, usually the new owner is trading Paul George and 5 first-round picks for Jaylen Brown, and instead we have the owner going the other way.

Well, and, and not only that, this, the same ownership group shed all the salary with Jrue Holiday and Porzingis and all on and on. Like they, they've, Bill Chisholm and his group have done nothing but willingly kind of eat a little, you know what, and big time on this trade.

Well, and I saw when I did my thing with Kirk and CR a day after the trade, and I felt I had landed on this is part one of a part two, and they're gonna use this Paul George and the picks they got and more picks and make a play for the Trey Murphy, Jordan Poole type contract. Where they just, they get the asset and in a year from now they'll have way more flexibility. That did not happen either.

And well, not yet.

Starting to come to grips with Paul George maybe being in a Celtic uniform, which is gonna be weird. And I said this when I did the pod the other day that there's, there's real anger about this trade in Boston. And it's something, this has been a feel-good, lovable Celtics run, really. Since the year after they traded PG and KG, um, PP and KG to Brooklyn, um, it's always been an overachieving, love it. The really, the only unhappy team was that 2019 second Kyrie season team. Um, but there hasn't been anger toward the front office or the ownership really ever. Um, really going back to, I think the last time was maybe when they traded Antoine Walker.

I, I did.

People, people were mad that they traded Antawn Walker.

I did have a, a high-level front office person at another team. We were just chatting today about stuff going on in the league and he said, you know, it speaks to how solid the Celtics front office reputation is and how Brad Stevens' reputation is that they're not getting even more shit and more anger for this trade because there's only 3 or 4 front offices who could do this trade and not get just immediate cataclysmic blowback that they have enough benefit of the doubt. Even from their angry fans, that it's not like a coup. And, and this is one of them. But yeah, it's, it's, I think, I think the other thing about doing it this early is, um, it's gonna be a long time before the Celtics start winning basketball games again. And if this were like in September and you could just say, hey, look, preseason's coming, training camp's coming, just watch, we're gonna be, you know, 15-8 right outta the gate, we'll be solid, 15-5, whatever. And like now, now they, we have the absolute full offseason for people to be angry about this.

Like when Minnesota traded Towns, that was really close to the start of the season. True. And we were just right into it with preseason games and everything else. I'll never understand it. And I know you and I both talked separately on our podcast about this whole advanced metrics argument that has now sprung, and this is now gonna be the thing that we talk about all season, I guess. And people have just dug into their sides and it honestly mirrors real life. This is just one— this has become one of those things that's like politics, where it's like, I stand here, this is my opinion, I'm just going to be here. And somebody else says, I'm over here, this is what I think.

Well, some of the analytics stuff is— I mean, I don't want to do the whole thing on, on here, but some of like the anonymous, you know, the anonymous source who thinks with with whatever team that thinks he's not one of the 50 best players in the league, or the anonymous source who thinks he's not a top 7 player on a whatever typical NBA team. It's just, it's just crazy. And I, I, I've, I have always thought that he's probably a hair overrated, but it doesn't really matter. Like, like the, the most important reason this trade happened, I personally, it, it could, it could be the 1A, 1B thing with Tatum, but to me it, it still comes down to $57 million, $62 million, $66 million.. And where the analytics come in is whatever, like the on-off stuff, throw it out. Like just, just whatever the, like all the analytics together. If he's making $66 million and he's, let's give a realistic pessimistic ranking, a realistic skeptical ranking of Jaylen Brown. If he's making $66 million and he's the 18th best player in the NBA, that's a problem. That's like hard. To build around when you have another guy making even more money than that.

I'm just throwing that ranking out there. Like if I were an analytics guy who's done all the eye test stuff and seen all the stuff that Jaylen Brown did to win Finals MVP, carry the Celtics last year, all of that. So I, I have that infused with my analytics stuff that's a little more skeptical and it washes out to like 18th best player in the NBA at that salary. I, I think that's really just what it comes down to more than anything else.

And I wonder if that's where we're going with the league. One of the things that, so like, obviously every single person in my life has asked me about this. One of the things that I thought was interesting that didn't get enough attention was how the salary cap kind of went backwards and under, under its projection by a little, a little tiny bit. Yeah. But some, but there's been years where we're like, whoa, we're way over this year. And, um, I wonder if there's a fear with the local TV revenue just in general. That they were looking at 2 years from now, like, wow, we might get really screwed with 2 of these guys. So it's that basically my, the big picture outside of Boston I'm wondering is, are more teams gonna be thinking this way? Is this driving some of the Pistons-Durant stuff? Which by the way, the Durant thing, that was another casualty of the CBA thing where they can offer him $100 million more than anybody else. But why would they? Why am I just gonna give you $100 million more than your net worth if you just tested it elsewhere. So I don't, it feels like the, and I have a couple questions about this that I don't wanna step on, but it feels like we're headed toward a really strange salary cap era for the league that the only time I can, in recent history, at least since I've known you, and maybe we didn't even know each other then, but it was like the end of the 2000s, specifically with the Harden trade, which we've talked about over and over again, where there was a moment where teams started choosing salary decisions over basketball decisions.

And I think that's the number one reason this trade happened. Number two is that all the stuff that happened from the moment the season ended all the way to last week, I think put a bad taste in their mouth and they decided to move on.

Yeah, there was a time during that era where the— it sounds quaint to say it now, and I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, that it— the cap stayed flat basically for like 3 or 4 years in a row and it was flat at like $58 million. Like that was the salary cap. And so that, that is, and I have had a couple agents sort of just venting to me in the last week that call the second April, this is the agents speaking, but call the second April, whatever it is, teams are treating it like more or less a hard cap and they're going to continue to treat it even like what James Dolan did and like letting Mitchell Robinson go and replacing him with the an inferior version and Andre Drummond, a championship team willingly doing that.

Yeah, but he should have done that though. I, I'm not defending Dolan, but we've seen teams do that. We saw the Celtics do that with James Posey in 2008 where it's, what if you're not one of the best 5 guys and you're gonna bring all these penalties and all these other things with me? I don't think it's defensible. You have to figure out how to patch those stats together.

I mean, the Mitchell Robinson minutes are better than the Andre Drummond minutes are gonna be. And true, like, you're gonna feel Andre Drummond is almost as good of an offensive rebounder, but not quite. Defensively, it's a huge downgrade. The corner 3 thing is like actually kind of interesting, and I'm curious to see if Mike Brown leans into that like Nick Nurse did. That's like a little interesting wrinkle. But yeah, I mean, look, I, I'm just saying what I'm hearing from agents about the hard cap and the, the second apron, and the Nuggets are gonna be one of the one of the test cases. I do have to give you your praise because the day Jaylen Brown got traded, even before and after I did my podcast, I had several executives around the league reach out to me. Is Bill, is Bill okay? Like, where is Bill? And there were a couple I trusted enough to tell them where you were, but I said, I can't, I can't text it. It's too good. You have, you have, if you wanna know, you have to call me. And their reactions were, Absolutely riotous. Like, they just— like, I've never heard some of these men, grizzled veteran men, laugh with this level of glee.

I, I'll never have another experience like that in my life. Coming out of anesthesia and having my wife break the trade to me and just not being able to process it. I, I would've had 100 guesses for it anyway. All right, we got great mailbag questions.

Let's go.

And we can cover some of this Jalen stuff in there. Joe Madden says, dear BS, after watching the Celtics cut off a limb with a pocket knife with the Jalen Brown trade, wow, you should add 127 hours to From Hell Month on the rewatchables. I mean, that is probably the movie you would say for this Jalen thing. We went from, we went from the guy who was, is he going to be 5th or 6th in MVP to, um, Whoa, it leaked out that we offered him for Giannis too. Fire sale in the span of 2 weeks. Clancy from Connecticut wants to know, would you rather Boston traded Jaylen Brown a year ago last summer and tanked for a chance at DiBanza, Peterson, Boozer, Wilson in the draft?

That's a great— that's the great what if right there. One of many, but that's a great one.

So I went to— I saw their first win of the season, I think. They were 0-3 and then they beat Washington to go 1-3, I want to say. And Washington was terrible in Boston. And I was watching that Celtic lineup and I think I did a pod the next day and I was like, I think they should throw the season away. I don't see it. Like, they don't have enough. Turned out they go on this heater, they win 56 games. But, um, when you think like round 1 loss versus what they get for Jalen and how this season played out. I just don't know what they would've— what a year ago, what would we had— he would've had 4 years left on his deal heading into, you know, the second season. I just don't know what they would've gotten for him at that point. Well, and you're not, you're not getting a Desmond Bain trade, I don't think.

But I was gonna say, you, you also, you know, it's nice to say D'Abansa for a shot at D'Abansa. You could end up with Mikhail Brown Jr., which is fine, but like the chances are not— are, are much better that you're not getting D'Abansa. Now be the, this, obviously this top 4 is outrageous, so maybe the odds would've been in your favor. But yeah, that's, that's a good what if.

Would you have traded for Jalen this year if you were Brooklyn? Like last week?

I think that was kicked around for sure.

Oh, it was really kicked around. Yeah. I, I heard the Nets front office was enthused and then once it got to the higher levels, they were not as enthused.

I, I don't, I, I haven't thought that much about it. I don't think I would. I don't think I would have, but I would have thought hard about it. And I, and I don't like the path that I'm on really right now. I'm not that excited about it, but I don't think I would have. So if that's not the case, I would have at this, like, I don't know what the equivalent cost is for Brooklyn versus like, like what is their version of this trade? Because I don't think the Celtics would view someone like, I think it would've been Port— like, is Porter equivalent to Paul George basketball-wise? He's probably better than Paul George.

I would say Porter's better. He's an expiring and he's cheaper.

So, so Porter plus, I mean, I don't like the deal with, at that point gets pretty palatable for, for Brooklyn, honestly.

Well, that's my question. If I'm running the Nets and I see this trade and then I go and talk to my basketball people and I say, You guys told me you're interested in this Jaylen Brown thing. I didn't— this was the price, dude. So just what it cost us, Porter Jr., and we could have given them, I don't know, one of the Knicks' firsts and maybe our own 2029 first, and we get Jaylen Brown. Look, we could add in with Julius Randle.

This is the exact trade I pitched 2 weeks ago on the Zach Lowe Show. Michael Porter Jr. and a bunch of draft picks, like 2 picks, a swap, whatever.

But you probably thought more than 2 first-rounders. You probably thought like 3 firsts, 3 swaps. Yeah.

And they— that was one of the things that the social team clipped and put on my Instagram. And, and Celtics fans shit all over it. And I was just saying like, look, I said over and over again, this deal is going to net you— once the honest thing fell through, this deal is going to net you a deal that makes you a little bit worse this coming season. It is going to make the fans mad. I tried to prepare them for it. That was one of the deals I suggested. Everyone said it was a bad deal.

It's not that bad of a deal. I, I wish they had traded him last summer now that I know how it played out and I got Paul George and two half-decent picks.

Do, do you think, do, do this is my mailbag question to you. Do you think they are overreacting to the last 3 games of the Philly series, one of which Jason Tatum didn't play? Like, is, is too much weight being put on that versus the 56 wins that came before it?

I like the, I kind of like the way Jaylen played in the last game, game 7. I did, like, I'm sure there's some advanced metric shit that could pick it apart, but remember he guarded and beat at one point? Like, I felt like to me that's, that was the good and bad of Jaylen all in one game. Like he took a couple dumb shots, had to have a couple charges, whatever. That guy would, was willing to do anything it took to try to win the game.

I'm not even just talking about him. I'm talking about like kind of giving up on this whole model of the team being a championship contender. I think it's next season.

Um, well, that's another thing. Tatum, they put those minutes on Tatum and he lasted 6 games and then skipped the 7th one because he wasn't happy with something that was going on with his legs. And Jalen was the fall guy. I'm not saying Tatum should have been, but I, I thought Mazzulla should have taken a lot more criticism. And I was talking about my pod As it was happening, like, why are we putting this many minutes on Tatum? Why are you trying to make him a 38-minute-a-game guy? I don't get it. Why not ease him back into it? Why not play him 28 minutes? This is from Jordan in LA. With Jalen's value extremely low, I'd love to hear your blame pie for the reasons why. Percentages of ability in the basketball court, massive contract, off-court stuff. How would you split up the blame pie? I'm a huge fan of the pod. Go Cs, even though I'm depressed. I would say off-court stuff and massive contract, probably 90% of that.

What is off-court stuff with Jaylen Brown? Because there's no, like, people say that and it's used pretty liberally. Is it just like that he shares his opinions on Twitch? Because there's no like bad off-court. Normally we say off-court stuff and it's like bad off-court stuff. There's nothing like that.

Thank you for clarifying that. And your off-court stuff's the wrong phrase. Let's go with self-criticism.

Self-awareness.

Self-awareness. And that opinion of oneself.

What we're going to say is like, that's where it becomes hard to separate that from the basketball stuff, because that's gonna bleed into, is there gonna be a tug of war for control of the team? Is, is that gonna impact chemistry?

And they honestly thought yes. I mean that, like, I think that's fair to say. I think they felt like this situation was what it was gonna be. I think the contract, I would go 45 contract, 40% self-awareness. What, what's my role? All that stuff. And then ability in the basketball court, it is an advanced metrics-friendly team, and I'm sure there's some things they didn't love. The on-off stuff, I'll never know what to make sense of it because you can't tell me that last year's team was better when he wasn't on the court. He had a huge, huge, huge load and showed up all the time and did so many things. You know, I remember talking about this during COVID or right after when Kyrie was only playing home games and his stat, remember his stats were really good. It's like, hey, he's playing once a week. Like if you're, if you're gonna play, if you're gonna miss 10 games in a season, you're gonna play 36, 37 minutes and take the pounding that Jaylen did and go to the basket like he did and 9 free throws a game and guard the other team's best player.

You're gonna have games where you're not 100% and you play anyway. And I, I, I still feel like there's no way for advanced metrics to, to value that. The guys that whatever they're dealing with, they're still playing. This is one of LeBron, this is one of the great skills that he had. He, the durability and the consistency, no matter what his body was. And I don't know, I, I just don't know how you put a number on that, Zach.

I, I would give the contract even more than 45% blame pie or 40% or whatever you said. I would go 50 at least. And it's impossible to separate that from the analytics because they, the analytics are, don't exist in a vacuum. They exist in relation to what percentage of the cap he's taking up and is it worth it? To have that specific player taking up so much of your cap. But I would put the contract as like easily half the pie.

Okay. So if we're going to say that, how does Denver regard Jamal Murray right now?

I mean, I, I think they love Jamal Murray. They love his chemistry with Nikola Jokic. I think they're probably very aware that his, if they were to trade him, it would not look dissimilar from the Jaylen Brown trade. And it might even be a little bit worse because he's smaller. And plays a position that is pretty well filled across the league because we have—

he's over 50, right?

He's 50 this year. 54, 57. Yeah.

And I wonder, is there gonna be more Jaylen Browns? Like, are— is Orlando gonna start looking sideways at Franz Wagner? Like, Jesus.

Well, he's on the small— he's on the smaller one, and that's the timing, right?

But in 2 years, won't it be like 47, 48?

Uh, he goes, uh, yeah, 44, 45, 50. But 51 in 2030 is different than 57 now in terms of what percent of the cap it's, it's going to be. Um, it's the next one. It's the next one, you know. And that's the other thing that we need to talk about is like all these guys who are— I, I understand the extension rule and why it's written the way it is and why it's beneficial for both sides in a lot of, in a lot of ways to get security for players and teams. These players who are like, it happened with Towns, it's happened with Jaylen Brown, it's going to happen with a lot of other players. Like, you have 3 years left on your contract. Like, I don't think if I'm a general manager, I'm like, it's cool that you're eligible for an extension by the letter of the law. Can we, can we wait a year, man? You got 3 guaranteed years left on your contract. Why? But it creates, it creates issues within teams really early in the calendar of the contract.

I feel like there's only 4 or 5 guys in the league that you would proactively just keep adding years to their contract, right? Like if Wemby is like, hey, I'd love another 3 years. It'd be like, great, that sounds awesome, Victor. Here's your next 3 years. Right? Luka, same thing. I'm sure the moment Luka's eligible for an extension, the Lakers will be pouring years in the extension. I, I just don't think Jalen's at that level. This question came all the way from Lance. In Australia.

Okay.

Do you think Jaylen Brown's trade happened not because he asked to be traded, but because Tatum was jealous and said to Boston, it's him or me?

I don't, I don't think it happened for either. I don't think it happened for that reason. I don't think Tatum said trade him, and I don't think Jaylen Brown said trade me. I don't think either of those things happened.

I agree with you. Good question. They're even in Australia, they're thinking about this. Noah is a Clipper fan. He said, uh, I don't have a question. Welcome to the love-hate Paul George relationship. I had a few Clipper fans throw this at me. You know, it is funny, as I continue to try to talk myself into Paul George— really good career. 8 All-Stars, 1 top 5 All-NBA, 3rd MVP 2019, 5 3rd Team All-NBAs. 3 conference finals, 13, 14, and 21. 21 playoffs, Zach. 27, 10, and 5. 41 minutes a game for his career. He's 21, 6, and 4. 39% from 3. Guy's had an awesome career. And yet I, you like, I don't know any Paul George fans. Do you? Do you know anybody who's like, my favorite player's Paul George?

Every young player who comes into the league who's awake, his favorite player is Paul George. I'm a huge— I have been a huge Paul George fan. I think the last 2 years have tainted it a little bit. I've, I've always been a fan. I wrote a big piece on him. I can't remember what playoff year it was.

I remember that. I'm gonna say late, late 2010s, maybe.

Yeah. About up his up and down sort of playoff record and particularly the last couple in Oklahoma City were not good. And that I think it was probably the year the Clippers made the conference finals maybe in 2021. But anyway, like, I've always been a pretty big fan, but the last 2 years— he's now 36 and the decline is happening. And the last 2 years have been problematic in a lot of different ways. Even— I'm looking it up now— even Podcast P has gone dormant since July 2025. I was going to say, I think a great, a great moment to mark this monumental transaction would be if you went on Podcast P, but it appears to be appears to be dormant.

Well, I think we're gonna have him on the team this year, so I'd like him to feel welcome by all the Boston fans. Um, look, he's 2011 draft guy. You know who else is the 2011 draft? Kawhi Leonard. I mean, they were teammates.

They were teammates for a hot second in Indiana.

Um, yeah, as, as the summer goes along and I relax, I'm gonna really start thinking more and more about how good Paul George was in that Boston series. Like, eh, maybe there's, maybe there's something left. Um, we'll take one more break and then I have more mail back. All right, it's time for a special segment on today's podcast where we discuss the superior matches, teams, and players. We're gonna be talking about players today for the FIFA World Cup '26, brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official beer sponsor of the FIFA World Cup '26, a superior light beer. I'm gonna dive into, um, 3 players that I thought had superior impact, at least so far in FIFA World Cup 26 as we head into, um, yet another week. I love it. Can't wait. We're getting close to the finals. 3 players that we thought would be 3 of the best guys in this tournament have all delivered and then some. You have Mbappé, 27 years old, prime of his career. Uh, France is playing Paraguay over the weekend. They're parking the bus, they're trying to agitate him, they're trying to agitate all, all the French guys.

And he just has this attitude. He's seen it all. I've been here before, guys. It's not, none of this stuff's gonna work. France advances. Somehow he has been one of the two most memorable players in this tournament. And I'm not counting Harry Kane just 'cause we, we're recording this before the England-Mexico game. But Haaland on Norway. So look, if you watch Premier League, you've watched him on Man City the last couple years. I think they won in 2023. I mean, it's not like he's breaking news that this guy's unbelievable, but he is the first striker I've ever seen who really makes me feel like I'm watching a dominant big man in basketball. Like, there's pieces of all of these big guys that I've loved from over the years, like early '90s Sean Kemp on the headers. Just anything close to the rim Sean Kemp would get, it feels like anything in the box where he can have time to jump and, and, you know, get airborne and stick his head somewhere and just get over somebody, he's putting away. Young Shaq banging bodies around. There's like 3, 4 times a game he'll just bowl over somebody.

Footwork of, of Hakim. And then a little Michael Myers in there too, because he has the Michael Myers reactions after the goals. Everyone else loses their mind when they score. He's like, he does the Michael Myers. I love it. To me, he looks like when you have in the Little League World Series the one kid who's way bigger than everybody else who just throws the team on his back. That's the feeling he's giving us during during this Norway run and they had a great win on Sunday. So I still can't give him MVP through this past weekend because, at least through the past weekend, because that's, it's gotta be Messi carrying Argentina yet again. Highest approval rating of any team sport athlete period right now. And game after game, it feels like he's doing a couple magical things and it's so much fun to watch him and watch the delight that his teammates have. Of, um, just getting to play with a legend like that who's still got it. So, um, I would have him the MVP so far as we head into yet another week of an awesome FIFA World Cup 26. If you disagree, Ultra wants to know, they want you to share your superior moments from the FIFA World Cup 26.

You have the chance to vote after every FIFA World Cup 2026 match for the superior player of the match on the FIFA+ app. That player will get it, the superior player of the match trophy representing the host countries of Canada, Mexico, and of course, The US. So celebrate every goal, save and win with US Soccer and Michelob Ultra. All right, couple more quick mailbag. Emmett from Chicago. Do you think this Brown trade happens if Tatum had won Finals MVP in 2024? It's a pretty good one. I did, I did talk about this with my dad who refuses to come on the podcast. He's really mad. He doesn't want to say anything he regrets. I did wonder if, if Jaylen wins the Eastern Conference one, Jason wins the Finals MVP, and we never have this Avon Stringer thing that develops right after that. I, I don't know if it, he doesn't get traded, but I do think it changes the dynamic. I do.

I, I think the bigger what if is what if Tatum never gets hurt and they just, they lose the Knicks series and it's totally normal because I think that's the event that catapults Jaylen Brown into a different role. Then that changes everything. I, I don't, I, I, I haven't thought too much about what if if they split the MVP trophies, does that— because it—

well, there's 3 what-ifs because you have the Finals MVP. What if Tatum doesn't get hurt? What if Tatum just doesn't come back last season?

That's another one too.

I mean, and it's just Jaylen's team the whole year and we don't see Tatum until whatever. I think all 3 of those things may be no trade. I got the— I just, I'll have to This is from Cage from Kansas City, but did get a few of these. Did Brad send Jalen to the Sixers to destroy them from the inside because Jalen will want to be the guy on the team and they already have Maxi and Embiid? I don't think that's why he did it, but I don't, I don't, I don't, in fact, I don't think so either.

In fact, I, it's, it's, it feels far away now, but man, are they going to face him a lot of times and maybe in the playoffs and just, it's going to just be a lot of Jalen Brown. I do think the fit. Is interesting. We have all summer to talk about how those 3 guys are gonna fit together in Philly. I'm not particularly worried about it, but I, I don't think Brad Stevens did that.

I like that Maxie, Edgecomb, and Jaylen Brown all play basketball.

They do. They play most of the games.

They play 71 to 75 games, 36 to 41 minutes a game, all 3. And you know who doesn't is Joel Embiid. But those three will be in a lot of games together, and I think they're going to be better than people think. People seem pretty split on, on, it's just going to be a weird team. And is there enough basketballs? And I think they'll be, I think they'll be good. I will say this though, it's Tyrese Maxey's team and Jalen's going to, if he goes there thinking like, finally I have my own team, I don't think that's going to go well, but we'll see.

Well, I mean, there's also like when he plays, it's at least half Joel Embiid's team and half Maxie's team. I mean, when he plays, Joel Embiid is still a colossal force. He's a former MVP. Like, it's, it's, it's his team a lot when he plays too.

I really liked everything the Sixers did this offseason. Simons for $12 million was a steal. Simons is good.

That one's, that one snuck in under there.

Wow.

I mean, they have a lot of guards, particularly after drafting Phylon Toob. So I, you know, that'll be interesting to see how they split that all up. The, the 4, position after Wade. I mean, we'll see where LeBron goes. Who knows? Oh God, the whiteboard. I almost, I almost, um, we were watching the Mexico-England game at a friend of mine, uh, who had a whiteboard aside in, in the side of his kitchen because his daughter was using it for something. And I was like, should I, should I put this in the back of our car and bring it home and have it like ready?

Do it just whiteboard, some locations ready?

Because that whiteboard has really become a star in its own right.

Ryan H says, uh, first time writing in, love the show. Here's my thought worry: Brad Stevens, Michael Corleone arc. I'm afraid we're on to the third movie. He says, part one, reluctantly joins the family, the front office, and takes to it like a fish to water. Part two, makes the tough but right calls, bringing the family to ultimate power, removing Tom Hagen, his conciliary, Rob Williams trade. Wacking Fredo, Marcus Smart trade, all leading to the consolidation of the Five Families. Bader 18.

Tom Hagen is Robert. Robert Williams was— he's called Time Lord because he's late all the time. Tom Hagen was a precise machine.

Ryan's on a heater. Don't talk about it. This part 3, Michael tries to change the direction of the family by making it work in the legitimate world, the second apron, and in the process loses a child because of all the maneuvering. Jaylen Brown moved prematurely because of the honest miss. And then he said, that's all I got for now. Pretty good.

That's pretty good. I have to say, I, I have to admit, I never saw The Godfather Part III because I, if the buzz was so bad that I'm, I, I, I treat it like Jordan on the Wizards. I don't want to, I don't want to know what happened. I'm just gonna appreciate the—

no, it's better than Jordan on the Wizards. We did a rewatch, was about 5 years ago. It's like a guilty pleasure now. It's bad. I mean, there's really bad things about it, but it's worth seeing. Oh, LeBron question. Oh no. No, I have to go backwards. Hold on. Okay. Christmas games. I sent this to you.

Yes.

Jalen wanted to know what the Christmas games will be. He predicted 76ers Celtics at noon, Spurs Knicks 2:30. He left 5 o'clock blank, 7:30 Minnesota Thunder, and then he said 10 o'clock Warriors Lakers. I made my predictions, but you go. Would you write down?

Okay.

I didn't, I didn't tell you what I had. I'll be interested to see if we have the same 5.

So traditionally the Knicks play first, but I'm now, I'm putting them, I'm giving them the championship bump. We're going, we're going primetime with, with the Knicks.

Agree.

First game, Celtics-Sixers.

I had the same. Where'd you have the game?

I don't, I didn't think about that. I'll put it, I, I will put it in, in Boston. I want to, I want it to be the return game. Yeah.

I had that as well. All right, we're 1 for 1. We're tied.

2:30 PM or the second game. I have Minnesota, Denver, just a, just like two great teams. LaMelo Ball excitement. Just, they played each other last Christmas. Good rivalry. I needed, this was the game I was less sure about, but that was the one I put in there.

I had Spurs Knicks as the second game cuz the East Coast.

Okay.

That would be 2:30 PM Eastern time.

I don't have Spurs-Nicks as a game.

Oh, okay. What do you have for the third game?

I have 5:00 PM right before dinner, Thunder-Spurs. Hmm. Going with that rivalry again as a Christmas sequel. And it's because I'm giving it the Knicks, the primetime game. And it's, if I don't, the problem is if I don't give them the Spurs and I don't give them the Celtics and I don't give them the Sixers, I'm kind of running out of marquee, like Knicks rival teams. No, there's no final rematch. But 7:30 Knicks-Heat, Giannis-Heat, classic rivalry renewed. Defending champs get the dinnertime primetime spot. That's what I went with my fourth game.

What's your fifth? I'll, I'll do mine after you do yours.

I just went Lakers-Warriors. Fuck it. Like, well, TBD on where LeBron signs and what team he's on, but if he's on the Warriors and it's a revenge game against the Lakers, that, that's gonna be the way. I don't know what team he's gonna be on. I've covered all the possible LeBron teams except for the Cavs, who I do not have.

I have Spurs-Nicks, 2:30, Warriors at Lakers as the 5 o'clock, OKC at Minnesota.

That's a good one.

And then Dallas-Denver, 10 o'clock late night. I thought about Dallas.

I thought about Dallas-Lakers too. Just the, all the Luka games in Dallas are gonna be fun. And Cooper Flagg showcase. But we have to account for LeBron. Like LeBron is going to play on Christmas.

And so, well, I have him in the 5 o'clock game with the Warriors-Lakers, play for the Warriors.

Okay.

So that's where Anthony Davis and Draymond Green and Yaxel and Steph Curry and everybody else.

So the problem, I still think he's going to the Warriors. If he goes to Cleveland, we, I don't know who we're, I'm bumping out. I mean, I don't, I guess, I guess I would.

No, if he goes to Cleveland, then 5:00 PM's Cleveland at the Lakers. Lakers are gonna have that 5:00 PM. 5:00 PM.

Okay.

And, and then maybe Curry is the 10 o'clock, but that 5:00 PM I think will be the LeBron spot. All right, that was fun. Uh, Dave from San Antonio wants to know, Conspiracy Bill, are the Celtics clearing up money and building up assets for 2028 when Cooper Flagg tells the Mavericks he wants to go to Boston? It's from Dave from San Antonio.

I feel like Conspiracy Bill should be the one to answer that.

I always had my eye on Cooper Flagg and the Celtics. It's a big Celtic family. I always had my eye on it. Listen, I have Paul George on my team and, and probably 51-31, 6th seed, and probably losing round 1 for the next couple years. So I'm gonna start dreaming about Cooper Flagg. We did win the title in '24 though, Zach.

You did. That happened. We can't— I actually, you know, you're, you're mentioning that, you're just throwing it out there as a little fun aside.

We did.

So it's, it's, it's, I, I kept saying it during the Giannis stuff, like, as bad as this is going, like, they won a title. They got the thing done that no one can ever take away from you. And that, like, that, that's the whole thing.

We won a title this decade and it wasn't in the bubble. Joseph Quinn says, hey Bill, are we in Celtics Bizarro World right now? The Knicks are a likable NBA champion. You just traded your Finals MVP to your division rival and Brad Stevens is getting universally hammered. Weird. It is bizarre. A world time, it feels like. I guess the final piece of that would be LeBron going somewhere super weird. LeBron playing with Curry, I think, would be the fourth piece of that.

What's, what's the weirdest LeBron team? Like, the— of all the ones that are on the weirdest—

believable—

of all the ones that are on the whiteboard, what's the one that if it happened you'd be like, wow, I can't believe that corner of the whiteboard is the one that had it?

Minnesota.

Okay.

He's just like, yeah, I'm gonna hitch my wagon to LaMelo Ball. That's how I'm gonna end my career. And A-Rod is my— and A-Rod and Mark Lore is my owners, and I'm just gonna live in Minnesota. That just seems insane.

Dallas was on the whiteboard. I'm gonna just shove Dallas— I'm gonna erase them from the whiteboard. I'm good. I would be shocked if he went there.

So what's your answer?

I guess it has to be Minnesota. I kind of would be surprised if it were Denver. It just doesn't— I think that would be a great spot for him. It just doesn't feel like things like that happen for Denver.

Can we all agree Cleveland is the worst outcome?

I ranked it by basketball fits and like entertainment value fits, and I had Cleveland last.

It's just like, forget that back there. He did his business. He brought them a title. He did it already. Don't— you can't go back again.

And the reason is it's just the Harden piece is just like, I, He's gonna— what is he gonna be doing when James Harden dribbles 30 times and he still plays that way a fair amount of time?

Nobody on the planet thinks that's a team that could win the title. I just don't see it. I don't see it. I don't, I don't, I just don't see it. I don't think LeBron and Harden as two of my five best guys, I'm winning the title. I, I think it's ridiculous. I, I think in Golden State it would be ridiculous too. The problem for him is he was on a team that had two of, that had one of the best 6 players in the league and one of the best 40 players in the league.

Oh yeah, for sure.

I'll say they weren't gonna win the, and they weren't gonna win the title no matter if LeBron had come back on a minimum and they had done this Kessler trade. I still don't think they would've.

Oh, now that they've traded DeAndre Ayton, it's over. I mean, like you can't recover from that.

I know. Well, you can't recover if you're Joe House and you have to watch Trae Young, DeAndre Ayton, high ball screens. I, uh, listen, basketball fan Bill, Denver. I would love to see him and Jokic. I know you've talked about in your pod a bunch. I, I totally agree. I think it would be really, uh, it would be like some weird movie, like two stars that you're like, I can't believe they're in the same movie. This is unbelievable. Um, I don't think it'll happen. How much, how much money do you think he's hoping for here?

I mean, these, these teams don't have a lot to offer him. Yeah. I mean, if you can get the full mid-level, I think that's a win. But it doesn't seem like he's prioritizing that. And that at this point in his career, why, why—

Well, if he wasn't prioritizing that, why didn't he prioritize it last year instead of cashing in the $50 million?

Right. Why didn't he opt out and—

That would've really helped last year's team.

Instead of releasing an aggressive, aggressive statement, I think through Rich Ball and then opting in, why not just opt out? And you don't have to release any aggressive, aggressive statement. You can just go wherever the hell you want.

I did a thing on my pod the other day that I was really proud of and enjoyed about him doing the Roger Clemens. Roger Clemens, the last couple years when he was playing, he would just come back into the season like in June or July. On, on Houston, just do like a 3 or 4 month run. Basically, I'm going to be, I'll be in peak shape by the time the playoffs start. I'm just going to show up. I'm going to pop in. Like if they, if the Ringer's Rich Paul asked me what I think LeBron should do, I would tell him I'm going to come back in January. I'm going to watch everybody. I'm going to play golf for 6 months. I'm going to think about everything. I want to watch all these different teams. I've never had a chance to just not play. I want to watch everybody, see where I might fit in. And then around January, maybe somebody will get hurt. Maybe I could be a replacement for somebody. But I'll just have a better sense in January where to go and do it that way. And guess what? Everybody will just talk about it every week, like we're talking about it right now.

It'll just be like the story that won't end. Oh, Dallas is better than we thought. Could LeBron go there? We'll just be doing that for 6 months. That's the If you want the most attention, do that. Miles says, does this idiotic piece of malpractice, meaning the Jaylen Brown trade, join the Mount Rushmore of pathetic NBA trades along with Luka, Russell, whoever else you have in the list? Thanks for all you do. So this did make me— I did make a little list here, Zach.

Okay, let's hear.

It's the Oh No trades. Luka being number one. Barkley to Phoenix for Jeff Hornacek, Andrew Lang, and Tim Perry. That was a 9 out of 10. Oh no. Like, that was— I was immediately calling Joe House. Did you see that? Like, just, oh my God. Harden to Houston.

Where do you learn about the Barkley trade? As a sports radio? Yeah, that's, that's how you learn about it.

Yeah. That's like 2020 flash. This just in, Charles Barkley's been traded. Harden to Houston was a no-no. Philly traded the number 1 pick in 1986 for Roy Hinson and $750,000 in the draft of Brad Daugherty, Len Bias. A classic oh-no. And I was happy they did it 'cause I was a Celtic fan. I wasn't old enough to really remember my feelings on this, but when Portland had Moses Malone and traded him for 1 Buffalo first-round pick and $232,000, $232,000.

That's like, does someone have a, a specific debt that they're trying to repay?

And then Buffalo, 6 days later, traded him for 2 number 1 picks. J-Kidd to Phoenix. When Dallas traded J-Kidd, that was, uh, oh God, why? You have J-Kidd, why are you trading him? Vince to New Jersey, even though we were waiting for it, just 'cause of how bad that trade was, where it was like, you have to, you get Alonzo Mourning, you're gonna have to buy him out. You have— here's some shitty picks. Here's Aaron Williams or Eric Williams. There's a Williams in it. They just got nobody. And then my last one, Utah. Utah's number 3 in 1982. Well, in the draft with James Worthy, Terry Cummings, and Dominique Wilkins are the top 3 picks. Dominique Wilkins hints that he doesn't want to play for Utah. They trade the pick for John Drew, who was in and out of drug rehab for years. Freeman Williams at $750,000. The moral of the story, Zach Lowe, anytime money, weird numbers of money is in a trade, just say, oh no, it's not a good sign. But, uh, but I think Luka Barkley— I don't know where Jalen's gonna rank in this, but it— I think everybody had the same reaction, like, oh no, that's a trade.

I will say, I, I've heard and listened and read a bunch of people trying to say it's the most inexplicable trade since the Luka trade, or it's as bad as— I don't think they're comparable. I think the Luka trade is like by orders of magnitude and for many different reasons. The return, the fact that they intentionally did not shop him the way that the Celtics canvassed the whole league. It's just a different species of horrible mistake. It's—

I wouldn't put it above Barkley or Harden either. The Harden trade I think was way worse, 'cause just paying the extra $4 million and trade him, and, and you have a team that's willing to go for a 5th year with even more money on him. That tells you you at least have the asset, you could trade it. Ex-F Ramírez in New York writes, we had Kenny Atkinson talking about how the numbers said Cleveland was up on the Knicks while they were actively getting eliminated. We had Bobby Marks saying an analytics guy had Jaylen Brown graded 7th best on his own team. 'At what point did we stop calling it analytics and start calling it astrology for guys with Excel? We're one model away from some asshole telling us the team that lost by 30 actually won emotionally.' They feel, they feel better about it. Uh, yeah, it is getting a little wacky.

I mean, you just like, you, uh, it's some of it like, I don't know who said that to Bobby. I don't know, um, I, I don't know who those people are. They're obviously crazy. And I just think we don't have to, as the media, take the craziest thing that we hear and amplify it. We can use a little bit of better judgment about what we choose to, to amplify.

Well, in that case, he was talking about, I'm talking to this person, they really value Jaylen Brown. Then I talked to this person and he said this crazy thing. And then that's the part that cut out. That's what happens to all of us, unfortunately. Um, Mike from Hartford, Wisconsin. Hartford, Wisconsin. Did you know there's a Hartford, Wisconsin?

I did not.

He said, hi, Conspiracy Bill. Immediately you have my attention.

Okay.

I'm moderately surprised that LeBron didn't announce his latest decision either on July 3rd to try to take some attention away from the Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce wedding, or on July 4th to take shine from America's 2050th birthday. I think Mike thinks he's slipping. What are your thoughts?

Wow.

I, I think the opposite. LeBron's gonna take all of June or all of July to really, uh, really enjoy the dialogue about where he might go.

You want him all the way to January?

Yeah, I think it's great.

Was he not at the Taylor Swift wedding?

You know who's at Taylor Swift wedding? Me.

Were you really?

Yeah.

No way.

Flew back 24 hours.

No, you did not.

No, I really did. I went back, got back in time for July 4th.

Have you— did I miss you?

1500 people.

Did you miss me? Did I miss you tweeting about this?

I, I— you weren't kind of— you weren't supposed to do social media about it.

How did you get— what's that?

I mean, it's a long story. I knew it was interesting.

Do you want—

what do you want to know about the wedding?

I, I don't really— I mean, I— so any questions? Was there a reception? Did you just get to go to the wedding? Was the party also—

I didn't look at any photos.

I didn't look at anything.

Adam Sandler did the— he married them and sang this song because apparently they loved one of his movies. They didn't have tables like you weren't at a wedding table. They had these food courts, and a lot of it was like big pictures. By the way, I didn't go to this wedding. I just want to see if you believe me. You did. You thought I went to the wedding.

That was unbelievable. I was skeptical, right?

I mean, I roped you in. You believe me, right?

Well, look, it's 12:30 in the morning.

It's 12:30 in the morning. I knew I could get groggy Zach to buy into that.

I was going to ask who your plus one was, why I didn't get it, why I didn't get considered as the plus one, because boy, I would like to go.

You know who's there? Tommy Alter.

I, I don't know what to believe anymore. I don't know what to believe.

No, Tommy Altour was there. All right. Matt in Charlottesville wants to know, why doesn't one of the teams in the running for LeBron just go ahead and trade for Bronny right now?

Who sent this in?

Matt in Charlottesville.

I mean, if, if it were a deal breaker that he has to play with Bronny, he wouldn't have left the Lakers. I, I don't, I think he's ready for Bronny to be like released like the doves and just go fly. Fly and, and be your own man.

So if you're Cleveland, you wouldn't trade Daquan Tomlin straight? Naquan Tomlin. Naquan Tomlin. Naquan Tomlin.

I don't know why I called him Daquan. Boy, if that happened, I mean, it would just be the all-time— there are no tea leaves. There's nothing to— there's no dots to connect. Like, that's the— if a team trades for Bronny James in the next week, I think we're gonna know something something is up.

Golden State has somebody. He makes— Bronny makes like $2.2 million. So I, I went on the trade machine, I looked at all the teams. So if Golden State really wanted him, try to get Bronny first. That's the smart move.

One of my, one of my favorite subplots of the summer so far has been Pat Riley reportedly just stonewalling all the Antetokounmpo brothers. Just like Thanasis, nope, it's not happening here. Alex, Costas, don't, don't even think about it. But Thanasis, You could buy some tickets. We'll maybe give you a seat, but you are not playing for the Miami Heat.

I think all the guys on the Heat are relieved they don't have to practice against Thanasis. I think he was a physical practice player. You know, I got this question a few times, and I'll read this one from Edwin from La Mirada, California. He also asked for conspiracy bill. This always gets my attention. Is the Kawhi trade to Toronto the modern-day version of Jordan's retirement in 1993? The parallels are undeniable. The NBA has in— the NBA has intraconvertible proof that a player is guilty of crimes that make the league look bad, but instead of airing out their dirty laundry in public, they quietly force the player in a double secret probation. Jordan to play minor league baseball. Kawhi to exile in the NBA version of Siberia, Toronto.

That is, that is, that is hurtful. Who sent this?

Edwin from La Mirada, California.

Edwin, state your source, Edwin. Okay, put your full name on the email. State your source. That's some BS. Toronto is an amazing city. It's not exile. It's a great city, great people, great food, great nightlife, great everything except the weather.

And by the way, Edwin points out at least Jordan got to stay in the country. He just couldn't play basketball for 18 months.

He's gonna be coming in and outta the country at will. Okay. There's, we think, and, uh, they're gonna be a very good basketball team. It's not like he's, they traded him to, you know, the Kings or something like that.

Conspiracy Bill did take a look at this. Did catch his attention. Go back to when Kawhi signed and Toronto was really mad because they felt, by the way, Toronto may or may not have been involved a little in this Aspiration scam. They certainly were about talking about Uncle Dennis, right?

Oh, and just in, in that Uncle Dennis wanted this from us.

They wanted that. Like they, I felt like they were one of the sources for kind of the things Uncle Dennis was asking for.

I mean, that's come out in the media and even before the aspiration scandal hit, I think.

Okay, so you lose Kawhi because this other team— this is all legend, by the way, it's just conspiracy bill considering the argument. You lose Kawhi because this other team goes beyond the rules to get him, and Adam says, all right, here's how I'm going to fix this. You, you will now return Kawhi to the Raptors. They're gonna trade these picks, and then my ruling will be the picks no longer matter, and Toronto basically gets Kawhi for nothing. That's— would get conspiracy bills.

The picks no longer matter, and like, we're sending them back to Toronto as punishment for—

Toronto gets the— you Clippers don't get to use those picks. They just go back to Toronto.

Oh, now that would be something. That would be something.

That would be pretty good.

Yeah, that would be something.

Would that make you wonder? Would that make you go, huh? Um, the other thing would be is if, if Ballmer buys the Seattle Seahawks.

Okay.

And decides, I've always wanted to own the NFL team in Seattle. I've had a great run here in the Clippers. I built the new stadium. I am now going to sell the Clippers. And we'll never know why he sold. Would be another conspiracy, Bill. Has accepted that one on his desk. He's, he's looked at that one as well.

It's in a yellow envelope, just marked, marked top secret conspiracy. Yeah.

Jack in Missouri said, uh, about my idea in the Colonoscopy Pod. I like that it's now the Colonoscopy Pod.

Uh, you had to know that that's what it was gonna be.

That LeBron might wait until December or January to sign a team. He said, what if he chose his team based on the winner of the NBA Cup and just sat courtside?

Winner gets LeBron, announced it, and then, then the, then the, then the Kings begin creeping through, or like through NBA. He's like, oh no, I gotta get out of the quarterfinals, so they're in the semifinals.

Oh boy, it's getting nervous. So this one excited me. We talked about surprise LeBron teams. Josh Cook said LeBron in Indiana with the Pacers would be wild, right? He loves getting out and running. That's what Hal Burns teams do. Starting 5 with Tyrese, Nembhard, LeBron, Siakam, Zubats, McConnell, Neesmith, Oubre, Toppin, and Porter. They nail both ends of the floor, shooting, rebounding, and selfless basketball. And I'm not even a LeBron fan. That is from Josh Cook.

That was Mahoney's.

I agree.

That was Mahoney's pick when he came on my show. I said, what's your just, just, just fun, fun only. That's the only criteria. Fun only. He said Indiana. And by the way, apologies to Indiana. I should have mentioned we were doing Christmas games. When I was thinking who could the Knicks play and I settled on Knicks Heat. Oh, I thought, I thought about Knicks Pacers. That would be really fun cuz the Pacers are the team like the Knicks, the Knicks didn't have to go through the Pacers. The Pacers can still sit here and say we beat that team twice in a row in the playoffs. I know there's lots of injuries and all that stuff, but that would, and that's obviously a classic rivalry as well.

So that would be the Christmas if, if they just have that noon spot. And that just belongs to the Knicks every year. Knicks-Pacers makes more sense, I think. Or Knicks versus whatever LeBron team. Andrew Smith wants to know, why don't the Sixers trade Embiid to the Bucks for Myles Turner and Kyle Kuzma right now?

Wow.

Kuzma's an expiring, Turner has 3 years left.

Uh, okay.

I've, I've, who has a longer meeting on that?

I've, I've taken note. I've taken note. It's 12:40 in the morning. I'm a little groggy, but that's, I mean, look, obviously that's not gonna happen.

I, I think I thought it was interesting. I mean, so Philly would be basically in a year, they would just have the Miles Turner number cuz Kuzma would expire. So you would have a center for $30 million less than Embiid.

I mean, this goes back to like, how many times can we say things like, well, but the upside of Embiid, if he ever stays healthy for the playoff, like, is Is it just time to give up on that? Yes.

So I would, I think, oh, if I'm Philly, I'm the opposite. I'm looking at Embiid like I have these 3 durable, really good players that I can build a regular season around and I can sprinkle Embiid in, keep them healthy and just try to get in the playoffs. The counterargument would be, well, you did that last year and you got hurt anyway.

I, I, can he get through 4 playoff rounds healthy? I mean, I, I'm skeptical of that alone.

What if you just played him twice a week even during the playoffs? So he played like Game 2, Game 4, Game 5, and Game 7. Like he just played 4 of the 7 games.

Poor Nick Nurse trying to manage that. I do think the idea, what I'm fixated on is this trade rattles around in my brain is like Joel Embiid, Milwaukee Buck. Just how miserable is that person gonna be? Like, like, what, what is happening? What team am I on now? I gave my whole career to Philly. We're at least like a good team, and now I'm on the Bucks. Although that would be a post-Giannis Bucks.

A lot of fun pieces for him. Well, Tyler Harrow. Um, this is from Mel. He says, podcasters have used 'can't put the toothpaste back in the tube' too many times.

Okay.

Including you, I guess. It's fine. He has some alternatives. Can't put the milk back in the cow, can't put the shit back in the ass. And then he had a third one that I'm not going to say, but it involves sperm.

I don't like any of those.

Can't put the milk back in the cow. I don't think he nailed that one. The third one, the third one was just plain offensive. I'm not even going to say it.

I thought he was gonna say you can't put the milk back in the carton or something, but we just went straight, straight back to the source.

Yeah, right back in the cow. Tim Bowers, one of many people who wrote about the NBA Players Association, mainly represented by so many called stars, screwed over its own middle class. I talked about this on Thursday. These contracts for the middle class guys, even Simons, 2 for 12.5 for Simons. Simons is good.

Like the, the Lakers, the Lakers were like, hey, wait a second, middle class, you want to come to us? Quentin Grimes here, $60 million.

They were the only ones who, they were partying like it was 2016. Um, but for the most part, these, the D-Wade 4-for-39 felt a little more old school, but, um, yeah. All right, a couple more and then we're done. Josh and Riley, imagine you're dating an absolute smoke show in college who has tons of fun but completely insane. She's amazing in bed and at parties, but she also goes through your phone when you're not looking. Also, she's a horrible driver. You know it's not going to last and that she isn't the kind of girl to introduce to your parents, so you break up. Deep down, you know she wasn't a long-term solution, but when she's gone, you just feel alone, and that sucks. That's how it feels to be a Hornets fan right now. Josh really went deep.

I was wondering—

Like, almost tied in obsession.

I was trying to figure out where that was going.

Um, and then, then you figured it out.

It landed in, it landed in a good NBA place, actually.

I, good email. Brandon says, cheers. Uh, the Knicks can basically live like kings in New York for the rest of their life, but as a post-career business, I think the biggest no-brainer is for Landry Shamet. Just open a chain of laundromats in the five boroughs called Laundry Shamet. He'll print money. Would you go to Laundry Shamet?

I think that's a, it's a harder, it sounds great. It's a harder business than you think. Laundry, you can't just call it Laundry Shamet and it's not. It's not like he has $300 million to spend just opening up launches all over the place.

Yeah, he needed a backer. Nicholas said, uh, he, he couldn't believe the Cavs 2016 championship 10-year reunion, that Kyrie didn't go, that Moskov wasn't invited.

Moskov was just unaware.

Just unaware. Felt bad for him. Um, but he wants to know, how will the Celtics celebrate in 2034? Will everyone be invited? Who will ghost it? Will Porzingis still be injured and will Pritchard get blind drunk and repeatedly yell, this is what I do.

All right, let me look at the roster.

I think Jalen would probably be the iffiest invite, but I think he goes.

I think they forget about Šima Hajduk. I think he's the Moskov. Of the— I think he checks Instagram and it's like, oh, that's a good one. Yeah, like, you know, that hurts. I think Jalen goes. I think by then we're in a good spot, in a good enough spot.

And Al Horford won't go because it'll coincide with his 50th birthday party. Um, the, uh, Ben Craven in Ludlow, Shropshire, UK— I feel like he's written before— he wants us to set the over-under for future All-Star appearances of all combined players and picks received by Milwaukee in the Miami trade for Giannis.

Okay, that's a good one.

He said 0.5. I would go 1.5. I think Hero may have like 27 points a game next year.

Hold on. So we, we have Burrys, Amen. What, what else do we have coming in that?

Burrys, Amen, Kelly Olynyk. Where, um, future Miami lottery pick would probably be your best chance. Yeah, yeah.

I'm trying to think how many futures I think Burrys could make.

One. I'm gonna go 1.5.

I like 1.5. 0.5 is too low.

Um, okay, this one's too long. I really want your reaction to this.

Let's do it, go ahead.

It's a July 4th email. It's from Ben in St. Louis. He said, uh, July 4th will mark our semi-quincentennial anniversary. Is that a word? Semi-quincentennial? And perhaps that's significantly the 10-year anniversary of Kelly Olynyk killing Boston's chances of getting Kevin Durant. Recall KD had narrowed his choices down to OKC, Boston, and Golden State. A Celtic contingent flies to the Hamptons where KD has a house rented. The group is Tom Brady, Danny Ainge, Brad Stevens, the owners, Marcus Smart, Isaiah Thomas, Jake Crowder, and Kelly Olynyk. What happened was Kelly Olynyk in a tie-dye shirt versus Steph, Klay, and Draymond's 73-win team. He's still upset about it. He still blames Kelly Olynyk for the Celtics not getting Kevin Durant. I think there were other reasons.

Kelly Olynyk specifically, and the shirt that he was wearing. I don't remember.

Did he wear a tie-dye shirt? I don't remember the tie-dye shirt.

She's speculating. I mean, there's gotta be Google Images.

Why did Tom Brady go too? That was another weird one.

I, I wanna look, I wanna look this up now. I mean, is he, is he, was he—

Is there a picture of all them in the Hamptons?

That's what I'm looking, that's what I'm looking for. I don't see any tie-dye shirts.

Katie should have come to Boston.

Oh, he's wearing— he is wearing a t-shirt. Yeah, it's not quite a tie-dye shirt. He's got a backwards hat and he's got a white t-shirt with some tie-dye-like image. It actually might be a tie-dye t-shirt.

Hmm, interesting. I should have been more focused on it. All right, last question. It's from Sherb from San Francisco. He's on a group chat about the Kings franchise with a bunch of Kings fans., that they call the Kang's Fan Annual Season Timeline, and he's posted the same timeline below every year for the last 5, and somehow he hit his hit every month of— on the dot this past year with the ACOVs. So this is— he sent— this is from 2022. He sent me the screenshot. There's the screenshot. Okay. October, we're gonna be good this year. November, oh no, we suck again. December, team is actually good, but our coach sucks. January, new coach also sucks, so it's probably our GM that sucks. February, we could turn it around at the trade deadline. March, we definitely still suck, we should tank. Why are we winning? April, we suck and our draft pick sucks. May: our draft pick doesn't suck, hope. June: the guy we drafted, traded for is awesome, more hope. July: bro, our Summer League guys look sick. August: positive Sactown royalty training camp news, mega hope. September: undefeated in preseason, 5 seed, question mark.

Okay, that's the 12 stages of Kings by month.

And that's the same— he's done that the same—

he's that— he posted— he said 5 years in a row he's posted in his group chat, and he said they've already nailed the Acuff thing. Now, Acuff, I guess he had 24 points, 24 points on 29 shots last night, Summer League. So I don't know if the Summer League bro or Summer League guys look sick is coming out yet.

The beam team, it just blows that whole thing up. The beam team didn't follow that at all. That, but that is an anomalous Sacramento Kings season.

Maybe that's the thing, maybe that was an anomaly.

I hope, I hope Acuff works out because it's pretty bad.

For League Pass purposes, we need Acuff to work out or else that is the number one, I don't want to watch that team team. Who do you have at, who do you have, you, when you do League Pass rankings, who is the, who's the favorite to be 30th right now for you? I mean, is it just Brooklyn every year? You like their court.

Milwaukee's got a chance to be pretty rough.

Um, I feel the same. I don't know if I'm gonna be diving into a lot of Bucks games next year.

Chicago's got some young guys.

Sheen. Oh, I'm excited for Chicago. Caleb Wilson. Yeah, that'll be fun.

Um, I— Milwaukee's— Milwaukee might be— Milwaukee might be my—

okay.

Clippers Clippers could be a little, eh, if Janik, if my guy Janik doesn't come back.

I think he's all right. I don't know how long you can have a Jones. What did he have, a Jones or one of the bad—

Lisvanc.

Lisvanc. Yeah, he'll be all right. Yeah, I would, I think Milwaukee is the odds-on favorite. I think you're right. Okay. We'll wrap it up. When's your next podcast?

Probably going to go up Tuesday morning. I think we're going to record tomorrow. On some Lakers stuff and Jalen Brown fallout and whatever else happens. Maybe LeBron will sign in the next 48 hours. Who knows?

I don't think so.

Doesn't seem like it.

I think basically everybody's signed now. The only things we have in play left are Peyton Watson. It's a couple of restricteds, right? What happens with Duren? I haven't liked Detroit's offseason at all, just for the record.

It's been a strange, it's been a strange one.

Yeah.

It's been a strange one. Yeah, we've got some of that. And then the no-brainer extensions will come, you know, like, oh, the Wembenyama extension and stuff like that. But yeah, Jalen Dern's, that's gonna be fun.

Do you think we'll ever see a player in our lifetime not do the rookie extension early and just do the stare down?

I mean, we've seen that. I think what you're really asking is will anyone take the qualifying offer?

That's what I mean.

Yeah. Yeah. I, there's been candidates.

I think the money is now reaching a point where you're basically losing $35 million or something.

It's a pretty risky decision, and I, I don't see anyone coming down the pike at this point.

That was Rocky. Zach, thanks for staying up till almost, uh, 1 o'clock your time. We put the toothpaste back in the tube, we put the shit back in the cow. I don't even know what that guy was saying. Yeah, uh, I'll leave for the rewatchables. This is coming either Monday night or Tuesday night because I think we're doing a post-soccer thing tomorrow. And then, uh, and then hopefully the NBA will calm down. Thanks for staying up late. Thanks to, uh, Gahau and Eduardo and Jack and Chris and everybody else at Spotify too. And I'll see you tomorrow night live on Netflix right after the America game. Must be 21+ and present in select states. For Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18+ and present in DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat. Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope Is Here, visit gamblinghelplineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 877-770-7867.