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Einfach Foto von der Lohnsteuerbescheinigung machen und fertig. Klingt sehr gut. Ist sehr gut. Hol dir dein Geld zurück mit WISO Steuer. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by PayPal. You know a clutch move when you see one. A no-look pass, a buzzer beater, a big steal. Well, imagine if your wallet could pull off moves like that. That, my friends, is PayPal. Right now you can find offers from hundreds of brands like Sony, Allbirds, and Viater, and save offers before you check out. Earn unlimited rewards. Plus you can add those rewards on top of credit card points. Now that is clutch. Download the PayPal app today. Save those offers. Start scoring rewards. Terms and exclusions apply. See paypal.com/rewardsterms. Credit card points subject to issuers' terms and conditions. The Bill Simmons Podcast. We are live on Netflix following Game 4 of Spurs-Knicks. Uh, Kurt Goldsberry is here. Joe House is here. That is the single biggest choke job I've ever witnessed in an NBA important NBA game combined with one of the best comebacks I've ever seen in an NBA game. And House, I don't know where to start except I kept thinking Falcons 28 Patriots 3.
Oh, as I was watching that collapse, not to bring a Boston team into this, but when, oh, not to bring a Boston team into this, when Wemby missed those 2 free throws. It was like, wow, we're really doing this. They score 30 points in the second half. They blow a 29-point lead and they still have a chance to end the game with less than 6 seconds left. They get a terrible Brunson 30-footer that over Wemby, but OG comes in, gets the tip. Wait, House, biggest basketball choke you've ever seen. Is that it?
It has to be it because of the circumstances, because The raw data tells us the biggest comeback in NBA Finals history. And I felt like it was a perfect, a perfect expression of exactly this Spurs team, which is first half, the youthful exuberance. They're playing loose, they're playing free. They have absolutely nothing to lose. They can't miss. And the second half, they score 30 total points. I think KG, before we went live, said they had 8 field goals total in the second half. Exactly what a young team under these circumstances who hasn't been through the gauntlet, you know, comes out and just a little bit tight, then it's contagious. The whole team is tight. And, and Wemby, you know, some of the observation coming into this game was, um, when there's the turnaround is this short, he, he tends to, you can see some of the, the fatigue still on, on that man. And, and the shooting percentage reflected it.
I mean, he ended up 9 for 25, missed some free throws. Here's the thing though, House, 43 minutes for Wemby. Kirk, I thought Mitch Johnson, he was keeping Wemby in there. Remember he rested him for like 50 seconds, brought him back in. And I think the thinking was, Let's go for the kill. Let's get this, let's get this now. And if we, if we're winning double figures, he's not gonna play the last 4 or 5 minutes anyway. He wilted at one point. I think he missed 10 of 11 shots down the stretch. He missed 2 monster free throws. And then combined with everything else that was coming back in this comeback in stages, which we'll cover, Fox gets the steal with 10 seconds left up 1 because Brunson throws it away, gets tapped out. And Foxes with OG behind him.
Yeah.
And you just have to fake like you're laying up and dribble it out and try to kill some time and shoot some free throws. He goes for the layup, OG blocks it, and then it's basically the hero on both ends. This is one of the most heroic end of the game things that we've ever seen in a Finals game. But, uh, who— when the Spurs look back at this, who are they gonna blame?
Um, themselves. I think they, they remember this is the same team that broke the record for most threes in the first half. They were red hot. That's why this story is so crazy, Bill, is like they went from the hottest shooting team we'd ever seen in a Finals game to maybe the coldest. I haven't had time to look it up.
14 for 26 and then 3 for 17 in the second half.
Yeah, they were 4 of 20 in the third quarter as a team, and I think 4 of 20 in the fourth quarter after shooting the lights out. But you brought up Fox. Let's blame him a little bit. I, I can't believe that guy won Clutch Player of the Year watching him down the stretch in this game. He, he, The Spurs were doing an immaculate job taking care of the basketball too in the first half. Again, that all fell apart in the third quarter. Fox had a bunch of dumb turnovers in the third quarter, but that play, yeah, that's gonna haunt their dreams too. They had the basketball, they were up one, he's going to the rim, right? That, that's the moment with Anunoby.
Yeah. But not with, yeah, like 7, 8 seconds left.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And he goes up, maybe he got fouled, maybe he didn't, but I don't think he should have gone up. I think De'Aaron Fox, And obviously Victor Wembanyama missing those free throws was huge, but just an absolute collapse on the offensive end of the court for the Spurs. I think Mike Breen did a great job calling it out. It didn't look like they knew what they wanted to do. It didn't look like what actions they— they weren't confident. Who's the grownup supposed to be? It's supposed to be the point guard, the veteran, the clutch player of the year. I don't think he was big enough in that, in that like late game stretch.
Well, you know, the grownups were there, Jalen Brunson and OG.
100%.
Brunson never comes out, I don't think, in the second half. Played 44 minutes, 36 points, and OJ finishes with 33. He played 41 minutes and had the two biggest plays of the game, plus just a bunch of three— what was he, 7 for 9 from three? A bunch of dagger threes too. But you know, when you're coming back from this and the greatest Finals comeback I remember before this was the Celtics against the Lakers in, in Game 4 in 2008. And that was, they were down 24 and it was basically 2 runs and it was some 3-pointers and the Lakers got a little tight. And then you kind of felt with 2 minutes left, the Celtics were gonna take the game. This was different. This was 79 to 46 at halftime with the Spurs with 14 for 26 from 3 and 2 turnovers. House.
Yeah.
They playing perfect basketball. And I'm on text threads with all these Knicks fans who are all going nuts about the refs. And I'm like, you guys, it's a 23 to 6 free throw advantage at halftime. You guys are getting your asses kicked. Like you're not defending threes. Your, your defense has been horrible and the Spurs are playing great. They ramp the defense up in the second half. So it goes from all of a sudden it's Castle gets the fourth foul and I thought all 3 announcers missed it. Yeah. 'Cause I thought Brunson was a different guy when Castle was out there versus when he was out. So Castle goes out pretty early, 10:09 in the third quarter, Castle's out. But then the thing with these comebacks, like these little stages, right? So they get it to 81-59, they get it to 81-65 with 5 minutes left. It's 90-75 at the end of 3. So it's like, all right, you gotta make your second run here. And then they make it, all of a sudden it's 99-95 with 4:32 left. And we've all seen this Knicks team house where it's like, if they're in, in sniffing distance, you feel like they're gonna take it.
Yeah.
But Alvarado's out there. We have no Mikal Bridges. Towns has really done nothing. It's basically two guys carrying it. So what did you think was gonna happen with 5 minutes left? I thought there was gonna win a great chance for the Knicks to win.
I mean, the one thing that, that had me feeling a tiny bit cautious is, is the poise that the Spurs showed down the stretch in Game 3 where they weren't completely phased. I mean, the Knicks tried to make a run in Game 3 and the Spurs were like pretty calm. I thought they ran decent action, but this is always the case. And I don't have the fourth quarter numbers in front of me in terms of how well the Knicks shot the three ball in the fourth quarter. But that, that was, you know, they were 2 for 14 from three in game three. They were vastly improved. And that's the thing that starts to feel like, you know, the avalanche, but, but really it was just Brunson and OG as the only reliable scorers for the Knicks, but you could feel the poise just falling away from, from the—
you could feel the young team experiencing. Yeah. So they, the Knicks were 4 for 20 from 3 in the first half. I'm sorry, 4 for 12. And second half they were 11 for 20. And that was with like, what did their bench like really? The bench was 8 points for Alvarado.
Yeah.
That's it. 2 and 2. They 12 points from their bench. Harper like almost doubled their bench. I thought the Castle thing screwed up that dynamic for the Spurs, Kirk, because he's kind of their, I'm not afraid of anything guy. And the fact that he was in and out of the game with foul trouble, he ends up playing 25 minutes. Usually he's around 38, 40. And then ultimately it just became, hey, De'Aaron Fox, you're gonna have to figure this out for us. 'Cause Wemby seems like he's luggage.
And there was a moment where Castle was the only one playing offense, it seemed, who was— he got to the line a couple of times in the middle of that ice cold slump. He was the only one really attacking the 2-point area. He was good. The foul trouble, like, just with Towns— Towns had the 2 dumb fouls to open the game, and I had some Knicks friends texting me. I'm like, I'm sorry, I thought both of those were fouls.
And the 3rd foul was even dumber. He just shoved somebody in the back of the rebound.
Yeah, yeah.
And I didn't like the 1st foul, just for the record.
Yeah, Fox going at him, that's fair. I think Look, Jalen Brunson— I, I want to give some love to OG Anunoby. This dude has been great for the New York Knicks all playoffs. That tip-in, Bill Simmons, that is going to be something we're talking about for a very long time on your show and every other platform. That was NBA history. That was not an easy tip-in.
That's one of those— they'll have the camera angles from 15 different places on the OG tip-in. Now, the big thing was Wemby was 25 feet from the basket. And Harper came in to get it, but OG just came flying in. It was almost like a set play, but it wasn't, obviously.
I want to quibble, I want to quibble with you. You called that Brunson shot a dumb shot. I don't think that was a dumb shot. I thought that was, uh, you know, I want him taking it and I want them to have a chance to rebound. And with Wemby all the way out, then they had a chance to rebound and OG had a free run.
He had a free run at the basket. It's a 30-foot shot with— yeah, trying to arc it over Wemby. I didn't think it was going in.
I understand.
It was a classic Kobe assist. They had, they had changed the shape of the defense and then OG, but dude, that was not an easy tip in.
That was like 5 feet away.
He was flying.
He was flying.
Every time he got the ball in the corner, he, he, it's feeling like Klay Thompson too. He's just making both plays on defense. And by the way, he was the defender on that Fox play we talked about. This guy is, he deserves so much credit right now for that win. OG Anunoby.
That's another thing I didn't like about them basically riding Fox down the stretch was the Knicks had Anunoby on him. I just don't like the matchup. I guess what matchup I don't like anyone against OG Anunoby. I just, I'm out. Like, let's come up with another thing. But that's part of the problem with when you have a young team trying to figure out what to do. And every time this happened in Game 3 too, and it felt like there's a couple moments when they started white knuckling the steering wheel with the, with the Spurs. All of a sudden it feels like it takes 10 seconds for them to get into their offense. They're 30 feet from the basket. They're running this Wemby Fox high screen that seems like it's too far away. And I just don't feel like anything good's gonna happen. But we, we should mention, I mean, there's so many things to cover from this game. That Josh Hart missed layup.
Oof.
If the Knicks had lost. Wow. Would've been Charles Smith level. That's, I had that was, that would've been, if the Knicks had lost the series, that would've hit. Charles Smith would've been like, come on here, sit next to me in the park bench for the rest of eternity.
If, because the story would've been two parts. It would've been that blown layup plus his, in his failure to box out on the rebound when, when Castle came in, you know, on, on a, they, they did, the Knicks defended perfectly.
Yeah.
On one of those last 30 seconds.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And he, he was the one who committed the foul on Wemby that sent him to the line and then Wemby misses both. But yeah, not a great sequence for Josh Hart, but we're not sitting here talking about that 'cause his teammate, and that's what I would say. He's hugging everybody. These, this, these, these dudes are special, right? That's a special team. As a Spurs guy, 28-3, great call, Bill. I, I was rooting for the Patriots that night. It felt like I, I'm not— I was never comfortable. As crazy as that comeback was, I've seen this team do this in these playoffs to Cleveland in game 1. It wasn't 29 points, but this felt like grown men against young boys, and it just— they just got there. And I was like, okay, once— and, and how said this, you could feel it on, on, on in the game. Like that confidence of the Spurs just melting away.
You know who was comfortable? Joe House. 'Cause I checked with him at halftime and said, what do I do about my Spurs over a 2-to-1 parlay? I should just hedge with the Knicks, right? He's no, this is done.
I didn't write, I didn't write that. All I wrote was, you wrote NFW.
That's, there's no fucking way.
That's right.
That is, you told me not to hedge it.
That's the correct play. Up by 27. Now, I will say to, to Kirk's great point, this is the DNA of the Knicks. Like, we will get to see over the body of this season, all the journalism that comes out tomorrow morning and over these next 2 days will be all of the comebacks that the Knicks have mounted over the course of the season. All of these double-digit second-half comebacks, all of these fourth-quarter comebacks that make them exactly prime for this moment against this team of Spurs that are goddamn badass boys. I mean, they are bad. They are bad, bad.
They were so good in that first set.
I can't call 'em men cuz they're boys. And that, that, that's the difference.
That's all.
A team with a, a DNA where they're playing all the 48, they're gonna get to the 48. And you know, the Spurs team, they're really good. It's a, it's a dead even series except for the Knicks are up 3 to 1.
Some of my notes from the third quarter. Castle, 4 fouls. Brunson loves when Castle isn't out there. Wemby flagrant dumb SA shots. 5 minutes left in the third quarter. SA has 5 points. Way better defense from New York. So one of the things they did was they just clogged the paint and they were like, we know you went 14 for 26 in the first half, but we don't think that's gonna keep going. And it didn't. Spurs started going way too slow. By the end of the third quarter, they were 2 for 12 from 3, 5 turnovers, 20%. And then the other thing was Brunson just wasn't coming out. And I thought Harper staved some of it off for them.
Yeah.
The third quarter. 'Cause he was great. But at some point somebody else has to step up. Nobody, nobody did. And then the fact that Brunson could do all that with never coming out was pretty nuts. 44 hard minutes. They're, they're taking him full court. He, how many he ended up taking? I'm looking at the shots. 25 shots, 11 free throws. Yeah. Doing all the setting up everybody. I thought his court game was really nice. He found a lot of guys who kept missing threes. He was great. And OG. And those are the two heroes. And then Towns came in a little late with the 13 and 10, but it was really those two guys, right, Kurt?
Yeah, Towns had a couple of nice moments. I'd written in my notes, Karl-Anthony ghost Towns because it felt like he was disappeared after the fouls. I think that was the karma that cost the Spurs the game. So sorry about that.
Your notes.
It was my notes. The other iconic moment that Brunson deserves credits for was the incredible 3 over Wemby on the right wing. That's another one of those, like, they're gonna make that social media, like, cinematic video of that. It was just an amazing shot. But Brunson deserves credit, Bill. I think he came into this game with 13 assists and 13 turnovers. You don't have to be Dean Oliver to know that's, that's not had a great assist-to-turnover ratio, uh, but he was making plays all night, and he's never gonna give up. To House's point, these are— this is the DNA.
It was awesome. And that's why he's going to be a legend. If they can win one more game, one more, he goes down in all-time history, and he gets to take his place next to Jeter and Eli Manning and all these great guys they've had over the years.
Pretty good. Mickey Mantle.
Yeah, that'll be— that'll be what happens. So 99-95, 4:32 left. Fox comes out of the timeout, hits a huge 3. So now they're up 7. Alvarado gets a layup. Wemby gets— hits a jumper, and then Alvarado hits a 3.
Yeah.
With like 3 minutes left. So all of a sudden now it's 104-100. Then you mentioned Brunson hit the 3. Hart misses the layup. Wemby misses both free throws. Oof. Brunson hits that floater and Castle steps out of bounds.. And it's like, this game's done. What happens? Knicks get the 24-second violation. Fox misses. Castle has that offensive rebound you mentioned and makes 2 more clutch free throws. Huge. And now, and now we, that leads to the Brunson turnover. Fox with a breakaway. OG blocks him. And if you're the Spurs, you look back at this and you say, we didn't have a field goal in the last 4 minutes of the game. And our best guy missed 2 free throws when it really mattered.
Yeah.
And our point guard, instead of dribbling out the clock, trying to kill time, get fouled, you're at least going up 2, decided to try to challenge OG Anunoby on a layup. And then on top of it, it felt like that play at the end of the game was open. And I think Towns tipped the pass.
Yeah, he got a hand on it. Was open on that.
He was. Did you see that? Like, Castlewood had a layup on that, but Towns tipped it. So I don't know, Kirk, I, I, I feel like after some of these, you're like, this is done, it's over, they can't recover. And then a lot of times you just see the team recover. Yeah. But I don't think they can win 3 games in a row as well as they played in game 3 and as well as they looked in the first.
I certainly wouldn't bet on that, Bill, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't rule it out in this day and age in these playoffs. This Spurs team has responded every time. Now they seem to make it harder each round. Going down 3-2 to OKC was not a great position to be in. They came back and won. So I would take the Knicks, don't get me wrong, but I, I wouldn't rule it out. Game 5 in San Antonio, we'll talk about, but like, Something you mentioned that I think bears like drilling down on. Mike Brown going with Alvarado down the stretch and—
sitting Bridges, who stunk.
Yeah. And Alvarado had two massive buckets though. He hits the three and then he had the two-point shot too. Mike Brown, ladies and gentlemen, this is a Knicks coach that is a first-year coach. The last year's Knicks coach would not have been playing that guy. In that moment. And I think the Knicks are at this level because they made Mike Brown the head coach. And I think that deserves a little respect here right now too.
And on top of that point, House, they steal Alvarado at the deadline for nothing. He falls out of the rotation pretty quickly because he, he, his shooting goes sideways, but he's a New York City kid, grew up dreaming of playing for the Knicks someday, right? And you just feel like this is, this is smart because whether he plays or doesn't play, he's gonna be delighted to be there. He'll be a good, he's a great teammate, agitator. Like he might have a moment in these playoffs was the feeling, right? And then he has the moment in the biggest game that they played the whole, whole season. Yeah.
Go, go dig out the clips. Pat yourself on the back a little bit at the trade deadline. You, you were effusive with your praise to the Knicks for that, that acquisition.
Oh, you want me to do the Stephen A and start taking credit? Do I get a championship ring? The, yeah, but the thing is like these, we always talk at the trade deadline when we do these pods, oh, he's a playoff guy. Oh, you can play him in a playoff game. Oh, that's somebody in the right series. He, he'll have a moment. And he's one of those guys. You could see it in New Orleans and, you know, versus Nikola Vucevic, maybe not one of those guys.
OG Anunoby, also a masterpiece of a trade. Now, like, look at that deal too. I mean, the Knicks front office deserves a little bit of credit for, for putting this group together with that trading tool. Not just— Can we give them a lot credit.
This has been an amazing front office. Yeah. Yeah. This is one of the best jobs anyone's done.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so I think, yeah, that the, the, the guys behind the scenes, the front office and the coaching staff are a big reason why they won this game. I think that's, that's huge.
And yeah. You know, there's another, you know, there's another reason the Spurs completely choked that it was the biggest choke in the history of the NBA.
You said you weren't gonna call it a choke, Bill.
Geez. I don't love the word choke. But when it's a collective team and you blow a lead like that and what happens happens down the stretch, and then you have major brain farts and miss free throws and you're not boxing out on the biggest rebound of the game and all that stuff like that, unfortunately is gonna count as a choke.
One small aside, Manhattan might be on fire. I'm looking at my window.
Oh Lord. Oh my God.
There's a lot of loud noises and a lot of honking and a lot of—
It might just be celebration.
Everybody stay safe.
Well, let's talk about that. 'Cause we, we've spent 20 minutes here and didn't talk about this Knicks team that hasn't won in 53 years. The fans are at it. They're so— I'm hearing from people at the game and they're like, the refs have just— between Trump in Game 3 and the refs in Game 4, the fans are just in this nervous, angry frenzy and it's like affecting the team was the, the, the message I was getting from, from the stands. Like the energy is way off.
The fan energy was affecting the team is what you're saying.
The fan energy was, was just nothing was right. It was almost like they had to hit rock bottom to come out of it. And then it turns into one of the most joyous events, not only in the history of the Knicks, but in the history of the league to win that game. Dude, when the Celtics won their game, it was on the road in, in LA. We, we don't see a lot of home comebacks like that, but that ends up being, you know, they're probably gonna win the title. That becomes one of the most iconic comebacks in, in any sport, not just basketball.
Well, we've all been to New York City 100 times, Bill, and I've never seen it like this. It is so electric. Everybody you walk by on the street has a Knicks shirt on.
Everybody's talking about the Knicks. It, it, yeah.
The Cabbies, the— we've heard other people talking about it, uh, but it is electric in there. But dude, there is a lot of pressure on this team, and I thought at some point in this game they lost some of their composure. Mitch Robinson throws that elbow at Wemby. Wemby's motioning the 'I'm in your head,' and it was like, oh wow. And then Alvarado like picked up Wemby's leg.
Yeah, how is that not a flagrant foul, by the way? I don't know. I think they're afraid of the crowd at that time.
I don't really agree with that.
You're right.
I think, I think KG's on the money. They're like, we, we don't like the energy in this crowd. The refs didn't like it.
They were terrified of all those 72-year-old billionaires sitting in the first row. Jerry Davis was coming to throw a catheter at them. No, they definitely— and then I thought in the second half, I thought the Knicks got way more physical, which they should have done. And, you know, the Spurs, every time they would get in trouble in this series, would just stop going to the basket. And that's why Castle was so important to them throughout the Finals. And then just him not playing enough, they kind of missed their guy that's like, "Fuck it, I'm going to the basket." Yeah, and I was watching—
I watched Game 7 with Chris Bosh, name drop. And I was watching it with him, the Oklahoma City series. And he said to me, he's like, "Wemby needs his move. What's his move?" And in those moments, like, Timmy had—
We knew what—
If the Spurs were going through this 25 years ago, Oh, it would be Tim on the left block over the right shoulder off the glass. You know, he needs to develop that. And in these moments when Mike Breen's like, it just feels like they don't know what play they want to get to, that's where your superstar needs to have some bread and butter action. And to your earlier point, Bill, you know who has that? Jalen Brunson. He can get to the elbow, he can do the step-back three, he can get into the lane and draw a foul. And it just feels like that was a real learning moment for these young guys. That's the difference between a mature NBA player and an immature NBA player. And that was on full display in the most important possessions of this game.
That's such a good point. And I want to ask you a question about Wemby, but to me, honestly, the guy that I want having the ball under those circumstances that I trust going to the hole, and Bill's already shaking his head, is Harper. Harper's the guy that the playmaker. That, that I want, I want to get those touches, those Fox touches at the, at the end. Now Fox did nail that 3 and that was a humongous 3. But I think, you know, the only reason that it's not Harper in those possessions at the end is just because, you know, he's, he's, what is he, 20-whatever years old? Uh, yeah, this is his first time in the league.
But here's my question, and they were settling for 3s over just going to the basket, which was the other—
what a segue, what a setup. KG, it can't be the case. It can't be the case that the Spurs want Victor shooting a third, taking a third of his attempts from 3. It just can't be the case that that's per— that they prefer that. It doesn't make any sense.
He wants it.
8 3-point attempts. 8 3-point attempts.
I don't know why he's so afraid of foul line jumpers. It feels like I always think they're going in like that little spot, like between the foul line and the top of the key. And when you talk about he doesn't have a shot yet, the shot should be like a running jump hook or some sort of—
Yeah.
I'm sticking my arm up in the air and kind of just flicking it down. But that's the thing, he's 22. In 5 years, like, think of all the great players over the years who every year they added something to their game. So he's gonna add something. I think, House, to answer your question about what's his move, like, I actually think it's that hard roll to the basket with his hand up and the alley-oop. And what the Knicks were starting to do during this series Is they're shoving him.
They are, they're pushing him.
They're basically committing a foul before he touches it. You're right. So it's not a shooting foul. And they must have done that 5 times today.
Totally agree.
Where they're shoving him off balance as he is about to get the dunk versus fouling him as he's getting the dunk. And it was smart. They've done, I think like they've, I think the Knicks have won every challenge they've had in the series. That's another one. Like they're just like really well coached. Now it didn't seem like that in the first quarter when they weren't playing defense and getting their asses kicked. But, but yeah, it's just a smart cerebral team and it comes down to plays like that Fox play. Fox not dribbling out the clock. OG realizing he might actually go for the layup and somehow blocking and not fouling him and then making the play on the other end. From a Wendy standpoint, Kirk, I hate to frame it this way, but I'm going to do anyway.
Oh no.
Maybe, maybe this is. This is the Wembley. I need to be kicked into the nuts as hard as possible, and this will make me stronger for the long-term loss that seemingly all great athletes have.
Yeah. I mean, that's the lore, right? That's the conventional wisdom. I'm still not ready to give up on this series, but if they lose, there's no question that the 90% free throw shooter going to the line for the most important free throws of a season and going 0 for 2 in that situation. That's in between the ears, Bill. And yeah, I, I think he had—
also, he's a great free throw shooter. That's the other problem.
He said 90%.
Yeah. No, I mean, it's just like that, like that made it worse. 'Cause I thought, I know he's tired, but he's great at this. He's gonna make these and didn't make either.
Yeah. And then Castle goes up and makes 'em. And I, I feel like there is, you could say those just random numbers. I don't believe that. I think there was a poise and a fatigue thing. Uh, and that's the other thing is Victor is not the most, um, he doesn't have the endurance of somebody like Stephen Curry or these great players we've seen who've worked on their physiques and their conditioning for years and gotten to the point where at the end of the fourth quarter, a game's exactly like this, Stephen Curry is going to be the one who's in the best shape, uh, running around, making his jumpers, hitting those exact kinds of free throws. Um, and it does, it does look like it to me that that Victor has a conditioning challenge ahead of him too, and these late games kind of prove it.
Well, think about Steph. When did he— had all the ankle stuff and wasn't really until like year 4, year 5 when he started to round into who he is. House, what do you think the— what do you think the gambling line on this series is right now? You had to guess.
Oh, uh, whatever it opened at, um, but flipped. The Spurs were 2-to-1 favorites. Is it more than that now?
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
I think they're factoring in the choc-ola that happened tonight. Uh, minus 400 for the Knicks on FanDuel. Minus 400.
All right.
Yeah. Wow.
So that sounds right.
I mean, 2 days off. So yeah. All right. So if you're the Spurs, let's go through this. If you're the Spurs, you get 2 days off, you don't play till Saturday, you're going home. You Led all 4 games in the final 2 minutes, and I think you led 3 of them in the final minute. You had 2 of the most memorable last-minute collapses in the recent history of the Finals with Wemby throwing the pass off Castle's back in Game 2, and then basically everything that happened in the last couple minutes of this. And you know, you could talk yourself into All right, come on. One game at a time. We can play with these guys. This team's not better than us. They haven't really beaten us yet. We've led double figures in every game. We've had leads of like 17 and 29. And you know, let's just, let's just play our game. Don't get carried away. But what does Mitch Johnson do differently other than maybe not playing Wemby that many minutes?
I think they gotta just do what they, they were playing so much better than the Knicks for That first half. Yeah, for an hour. What does he do differently? I, I don't know. I think one of the things I wanted to see— you sort of brought it up earlier, and it doesn't have to be Harper, but like, pick on Jalen Brunson on defense.
Like, yeah, run.
You have these three ferocious attack guards. Um, De'Aaron Fox, maybe not as ferocious as normal, he's still dinged up, but could we, could we pick on Brunson on defense, wear him out?
So you wouldn't pick on OG Anunoby? That's one of your, one of the things you'd change?
I wouldn't pick on—
don't pick on OG Anunoby. All right, I'm gonna write that down.
Josh Hart or Bridges is good. Like, but yeah, I would, I would try to get KAT in foul trouble on purpose and I would attack with my fleet of attack guards. I would isolate and attack Jalen Brunson in drive situations.
When in very, very quietly, that was the impact of Castle getting into foul trouble was it was, it was Champagny who was out there. Champagny got the majority, it got 33 minutes to Castle's 26.
And he killed them tonight, at least offensively. And that's somebody that was huge for them in the OKC series. And one more, one more point on that. Did not carry it over.
One more point. When the Spurs won their only game in the series, guess who was in foul trouble? Jalen Brunson, because they were attacking him. Uh, he got those 4 fouls and he had to sit out, and, and that was a huge factor. And the Knicks without Brunson on the floor are completely guardable. Uh, and it's almost like the only time I've seen somebody really expose one defender this playoffs, like I would try to do if I were Mitch Johnson, was the Knicks going after Harden over and over and over and over again in that series. I would like to see a, a really sort of aggressive targeting of Jalen Brunson on defense by these guards.
I'm trying to remember other famous, like, last-minute collapses like this. And another one that has come up a few times over the last few weeks was that '95 Magic with the 4 missed free throws. Now that was like Nick Anderson, 4 in a row. That was more abrupt. The game was over, it goes into overtime, and then I actually went back and watched it after we talked about it in the last pod. And I think Hakeem gets a tip-in with like under a second left in OT to win it. And that young team cratered. There was a feeling maybe this, that maybe that would happen to the Spurs after Game 2. Didn't happen. And Wemby is one of the most confident young stars we've ever had. And he could just say, look, man, I got worn out. I was trying to do everything. I was going nuts. But I still feel like I'm the best player in the series. So no Castle foul trouble. Wemby responds. What else do you need, House? More Dylan Harper?
Well, I will say this to KG's observation earlier, the short turnaround time going from a Monday game to a Wednesday game, we don't have any more of those over the balance of this series. We have, we go Saturday, Tuesday, Friday, I think, is, is Game 7.
Yes.
So with that cadence, for sure, that, that, that's a step in the right direction for Wemby. But I mean, honestly, the way these games have played out, I don't think that there are, are, are big moves to, to be made. I mean, the Spurs were, were right there. The difference is knocking down 2 more shots in the 4th quarter and, and they win.
Maybe turboing out the clock.
Yeah.
Mm. Any last notes, Kirk?
Yeah, I've been telling people all week, like, well, I have a question for you, but, uh, it's like these teams are very close and it's almost like if we flip the coin together 7 times and heads won 5 of them, be like, man, tails sucks, you know? Uh, that's how close the series is to me. But, um, here's my question for you, Bill Simmons, because you're the greatest sportswriter of our time, but you're retired. I have to write I have to write the Game 5 look ahead, so I think Joe House will let me indulge. If the sports guy had the assignment that I have at your website, theringer.com, for, for tomorrow, what, what are we thinking for Game 5?
Your Brunson defense when Castle can stay on the court is working. I don't know, we haven't seen like, this is the, you know, I love coming on after these games, but not knowing what some of the advanced stats are, I'd love to know the on-off when Castle's out there when he is not against Brunson. 'Cause it feels like when Castle's out there against Brunson, he has a hard time looking like Brunson.
Right?
Yeah. So that'd be the first thing is like, hey Castle, like just try to stay in the game for us because you're our best chance for this. Harper, the more he has the ball ad-libbing, doing Harper stuff, I just feel like they're in a better position. I, I'm not giving OG that corner 3 anymore. I'm just not. If I have to give up other stuff, that's fine. But he's, it, it's just going in every time now. And if it doesn't go in, he's beating somebody down the baseline and creating something else. Like you have to start treating him, I think, like take him a little more seriously. I'm not afraid of anyone on that, on that Knicks bench. McBride and Shamet have gone sideways. Alvarado came up big, but he was really like the last guy they could put out there. And I, this hasn't felt like it's the series for Mitch. And then just hope, keep trying to challenge Towns and hope he does dumb stuff. That third foul he had was really stupid. Like, you know, that was a classic Minnesota Towns foul. So I don't know, what else would you add, House?
Nothing. I mean, in terms of, of the narrative, the interesting thing to me is what we got in that second half is the version of the Knicks each time they had a closeout game in front of them. They go up on teams, you know, that was 58 to 30. Well, guess what? We watched that against Atlanta. We watched that against— every time this Knicks team had a chance to close somebody out. And so that's the fascinating thing to me. This is a closeout game against a team that is an entirely different character than the Eastern Conference teams the Knicks went up against and, and just ran them off the floor. I honestly love the Spurs. Now, I don't know that the, the line's gonna open up at what it's been. Spurs at home, 4.5, 5.5, something like that. I'm not gonna lay the points out of respect to the Knicks, but I honestly think the Spurs are gonna win.
It's the smell of a Tony Brothers game.
Oh, he's got the whiff.
I smell fouls. Oh, I just smell another foul. Yeah, it feels like this would be a Tony special. Would be. We also haven't seen Foster in a while.
That's what I thought the sports guy was gonna say. But maybe we save him for Game 6 at the Garden, a chance for him to be under the bright lights of Broadway and do his thing.
Extender off the hook. Trump, who I think if the Knicks had lost this game too, I think, I think the, the New York City fan base hatred of Trump would've gone to this level that would've never been seen before. And then Josh Hart would've been the other one if they lose that game, like we mentioned. That's— he's immediately taking a seat next to Charles Smith, um, with one of the worst moments in Knicks history. And, and the other irony of it is Knicks fans love Josh Hart. So of all people, and it looked like he was gonna dunk, but then realized his steps were too far away and, uh, couldn't do it. So, all right, so House thinks the Spurs are still alive in Game 5. I think I agree, but I don't think they can beat the Knicks 3 times in a row. I don't think that without some sort of injury or something weird happening, if this, if these are the teams and everyone's healthy, I don't, I don't see the Knicks losing 3 times in a row.
If obviously they win game 5, game 6 will be fascinating. I mean, a chance to win the NBA championship in Madison Square Garden in Manhattan with this fan base, that's a lot of pressure. It's gonna be one of the most electric NBA games in the history of the league if that happens. But yeah, I, I could see a path for the Spurs, but certainly, like I said earlier, dude, you're down 3-1. You had chances to win at least 3 of these games yourself. It's just, we've seen too many of these series, Bill, to, to, to, to really have faith in the Spurs at this point.
All right, guys, I think we covered everything. I, I'm in I'm amazed we were all coherent. And especially like knowing that the Spurs were a young team prone to do this and knowing that the Knicks love coming back.
Yeah.
It was crazy. Even when the game was 29, I wasn't exactly turning it off, but I felt like they missed their, it was like, it became a Sılaço the Turk game where it was like the Knicks missed their chance a couple times when they, they were getting it to 15, 14, and then somebody hit a 3 and it was like, oh, This could have been a great comeback. And then all of a sudden, the fourth quarter, when Wemby got tired, it flipped. And that, and that was that. All right. I'm sure we missed 17 things, but Kurt Goldsberry, Joe House, appreciate you guys. We're going to take a break. Come back. I have a little mini mailbag for the, for the audience right after this. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. USA fans, we got one for you. FanDuel dropping a massive USA Super Boost. For the matchup on Friday against Paraguay. Right now, all customers can win up to $25 if the USA has one plus shot, one plus shot on goal. That's it. Whether it comes early or late from outside the box, right in front of the goal, every attack will feel a little bit bigger.
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It's a new stay. Book now at holidayinn.com. All right, we're gonna do a little mini mailbag here because I'm not gonna have another podcast until Saturday night. So I wanna give some content for the next couple days. This, uh, mini mailbag, this segment sponsored by New Era. And you guys sent me some great questions. As always, you can send them to BSPodcast33@gmail.com. Thanks for all the nice notes and Nice things people say. It gives me faith in society that we're still nice people. Um, couple thoughts here on home court advantage. So we'll start there. Harrison from Cincinnati. Um, when I was talking about with Mahoney about why doesn't home court advantage matter like it used to, Harrison from Cincinnati said, what about dating apps? Players no longer need to go to a bar or club to pick up girls on the road anymore. Now they could just hop on a top dating app like Raya or check their Instagram DMs and invite someone to their hotel room. Without needing to drink or stay out late. Maybe this is the single biggest reason of the downfall of home court advantage. You know, I wanted to laugh at this and then I was thinking about how players probably met people in, uh, in the '90s and the 2000s versus how they meet now.
And it's probably way easier to be more discreet and meet people without having to actually go out in the general public and stay up late and do all that stuff. So can't be ruled out. Jalen Rose and I always used to have a joke when, when athletes would get into a town and they would say on Twitter, you know, they would be landing in Miami and they'd be like, what's good, Miami? And then you would just get all these DMs from whoever that, who people that knew you were in Miami. Yeah, maybe, maybe that is part of it. Maybe, maybe people aren't out until 5 in the morning at clubs anymore. Oliver from Chicago wants to know, is it possible athletes are just better at handling the pressure? They're bigger, stronger, faster over the time. Is it possible they've also improved at handling their pressure and emotions too? This is follow-up from Jake from Minneapolis. What about the impact sports psychologists have on modern players? Top prospects, recruits, college players all work with professional psychologists, mental health experts, whoever prepare 'em to play in these type of environments, big games, handle the backlash. Uh, the impact of mental health to me is the most glaring difference from 30, 50 years from now.
It's tough because I remember doing an interview with Adam Silver at Sloan Conference when he said actually he was the most worried he'd ever been about the mental health of players because of social media and people being online all the time and the tribalism of social and how fast people can mobilize against somebody or try to make them look bad. Not to mention AI and all the other things. So to me, that's an even out. I wouldn't say that is a factor, but I do wonder, like, maybe, maybe some of the psychology of sports, we're getting a little better about, about handling adversity. Maybe that's a little better. This is a theory from Nick from Cleveland. With all the AAU teams, these guys have played, um, probably 1,000 different gyms over the years. They're constantly waking up, driving 3 hours, playing for 6 hours, coming home, um, eat McDonald's breakfast, get back in the car, driving somewhere else. An 8:30 finals game after a day off is a walk in the park. Compared to what they probably dealt with for 10 years. Along with proper sleep, nutrition, it makes sense to me that they're better.
Not against that. There's definitely, definitely, you're bouncing around more and, you know, a gym is a gym after a while. This is the big one. A couple people brought this up with the refs because I mentioned with Mahoney, like, you really felt like you could sway the refs, especially there was 2 for a long time in the '70s and '80s. I can't remember when they went to 3. There was, there's blood in the air. There were just outright, you can watch some of the stuff on YouTube. There were just some, some games that you just can't believe how one-sided the officiating was, which is so much harder to do now in the era of social media. I really feel like in the 2000s, this shifted with, from what was going on basically from 1999 through the Miami-Dallas Series in '06. Then Donahue happens in '07, and all of a sudden we got way better at kind of monitoring what was going on with refs. So there is a before-after with that. And then Mitchell Eppner says, what about video review? Not just in-game requests for replays, but the constant drilling the NBA refs get from league offices and calls that got right and wrong.
They have the performance report after the games, um, and they're hammering down on them left and right. Maybe the refs are just better at calling stuff. Well, don't tell the Knicks fans this after Game 3, even though we're taping this before Game 4. But it's, it's possible. I think it's way harder to have a completely terrible one-sided refereeing performance than it was, and there's probably more accountability for a variety of reasons. And Byron, a Pacers fan, and this is a tough playoffs to watch, he put in parentheses, said, you can't affect refs nearly as much now 'cause bad calls will be reviewed and made right. You can't be terrible homer refs 'cause it'll be graded and scrutinized by everybody. So the refs are a piece of it. I think the travel, the more I thought about it, I think the travel is the number one thing that it's just easier than it was in the '70s and '80s. The refs are more consistent. I mentioned the shooting motions with Rob that, but that might, it's, it's a weird one, but there's just less variance. Everybody shoots the same. And then the 3-pointers is the other one where 3-pointers can swing any game possible.
So interesting topic. Patrick Franken wrote in about, he's a Milwaukee fan and him and his fellow Buck fans are now obsessed with that 82-0 game, which I'm sure people have, that's taken over the internet the last 7, 8 days where you make these teams and you try to go 82-0 and you spin it and And there's a science to it. The best I've ever done is 82. I, I really get— now I do the harder one where you don't get to look at the stats and you only, you get 2 spins, but I've just have never pulled off the 82. And now, and it's when— now that the Finals is, is about to go into a break for a couple days, I'm gonna make a more concerted effort. But Patrick says, over the last 2 weeks, 2 guys have dominated our group chat, Truck Robinson and World Beef Free. Truck, 'cause of his awesome name and insane stat lines from the late '70s. We're now down a YouTube rabbit hole of watching Truck highlights, including a 1978 game against the Spurs where he scored 39. And then he said, World B. Free, awesome name for the purposes, 82-0, averaged 29 and 30 in the '78-'79 seasons.
We got traded to the Clippers. None of us knew these guys existed prior to the game. My question to you is, can you spend 2 minutes breaking down one of their careers? Were they good stats, bad team guys? Could they have better career on the right team? Uh, he came to the right place. I can't think of anyone on the planet who's more excited to answer this question. So Truck Robinson, and he used to be Lloyd Free, he changed his name to World B. Free. Lloyd Free was on the Sixers. Truck Robinson was on the Bullets. Both of them played in the Finals. Truck Robinson, '75 Finals, and, uh, Lloyd Free, '77 Finals. They were bench guys with better players ahead of them, and then they got traded and their stats went way up. And Truck had, Truck had one of the craziest stat seasons I think of anyone in the history of the league compared to when you look at the rest of their career where he averaged, he, he went to Washington, he signed a free agent contract, I wanna say with like Atlanta, but somehow ended up at New Orleans at one point and put up 23 and 15 for an entire year in the '78 season, was first team All-NBA.
And this was a big stretch for power forwards. Where this was when we had the fight with Kermit Washington. They, you had Maurice Lucas, you George McGinnis, Kermit Washington, you had Truck Robinson there. Just a lot of big physical power forwards that were around there at the same time. Buck Williams eventually came in the league and Truck was probably the best rebounder of all of 'em. Now as a kid, I don't think I ever saw him play. He was barely ever in the playoffs. Would Pat, he was, in the wrong conference, but he ended up getting traded again to Phoenix. And I think '79 playoffs made the Western Finals with them and they lost to Seattle. So he was in the mix in real games. They, and then in '81 they lost to the Kings, but that was a team that Suns team maybe could've made the finals too. He was good though. He was a banger, super physical, really good rebounder, and ended up with the Nike poster. Rudy Free, I was way more focused on as a little kid. Going from being when just the ultimate Dion Waiters type guy on Philly, goes to the Clippers and just 29 a game the first year, 30 a game the second year, and was really fun to watch in person.
You'd think like now he would probably bomb, I don't know, 10 threes a game. Nobody, the 3-point line didn't even show up till 1980. But with him, Kind of, he, first of all, he was bald, but he was one of those bald but had hair in the back. So he looked really distinct. He had this weird body, he had like kind of no neck and strong arms and this really cool jump shot and was just this really physical scoring guard that could score on anybody and was a classic. Like if you played at the Clippers, World B. Free could just put up 47 and beat you by himself no matter what team you were. Celtics, the last great run he had, the Celtics had a 4-game series in '85 against him. And, and it was a great Larry Bird series, but, uh, he went toe to toe with World B and, uh, and World B finally kind of had a playoff moment. He never really, from the moment went to when he left Philly, was just never in the mix for the playoffs. So has this whole career, it's pre-League Pass, it's pre-Twitter. But he was cool.
And his Nike poster, I think, is one of the hardest ones to get. So these guys, like, I'm not surprised they're finally having an 82-0 moment. When there was microleague basketball, these were two of the seasons that were always great seasons. 'Cause that, you know, how many guards have averaged 30 a game? So anyway, I'm glad. Congratulations to Truck and to World. And also the insanity of somebody changing their name from Lloyd Free to World B. Free. Like, it gives you a sense of what kind of character he was. Cody from Bloomington, Indiana said how me and Adam Friedland discussed the Nets having no identity, how to break into the city, and, and wondered if it could be like the Italian rivalry between Inter and AC Milan, where, um, he thinks the Nets strategy should be to go in only on international players. He said Inter and AC Milan have a deep rivalry initially based on AC Milan wanting to have primarily Italian players and Inter Inter, hope I'm saying that right, wanted to bring in international players, um, cause more of a class divide between fans. Inter fans being part of the bourgeois, Milan fans were, be a little more working class.
This sounds great. I didn't know any of this stuff. Um, but he said how lifelong New Yorkers will always be Knick fans. So maybe the Nets should cater to the multi, multicultural aspects of the city and go with an all-international team. Honestly, best idea I've heard for the Nets all decade. You're not gonna beat the Knicks conventionally. You're never gonna get the city to care about them. If this whole last 2 months didn't tell you once and for all that you're a second-class citizen, you might even be like a fifth-class citizen. I like the international plan. I'm gonna pass that along to the Tsai, so I don't know. James was saying how when I, we were talking about how Chet had to go to the Australian outback. I forget who was on that podcast, like Dirk Nowitzki, to get his game back. And he was saying, here are my 3 options for him. A month in the Amazon rainforest, climb Mount Everest. He could be the tallest person ever to climb Mount Everest. And then he said embed himself in a Ukrainian drone factory. Learn from the experts about protecting home court, learn an underdog mentality, and, uh, just garner some incredible goodwill.
Um, I thought about this Chet thing. I'm not sure he's at that Dirk point yet. The more I think about it, guess what? Wemby's destroying everybody. Um, he needs to figure out this summer. I would advise him not to go on vacation, but he needs to figure out how to get his 3-point shot off faster. So that when he plays Wemby, he can go in the corner and release a shot faster than Wemby can come out and challenge the shot. And that would be my advice. I would— I'm not ready for him to go to a Ukrainian drone factory yet, but maybe we're a year away. Eric Moore wants to know, is Brunson's dad the most embarrassing parent in pro sports right now? So, I mean, this was LaVar, LaVar Ball's title forever. This would be a really fun championship belt to pass along, the most embarrassing port, uh, most embarrassing parent championship belt holder year by year. There's been some, some classics. Brunson's dad. So I go back and forth on this 'cause I, I thought it was really lame when he crossed midcourt. Nobody else said that. First of all, you're not allowed to cross midcourt when you're a coach, right?
You're, it's midcourt line only. But when Fox and Brunson got into it earlier in the series and Rick Brunson walks all the way over. And just kind of became a dad. It was like watching, um, you know, somebody in a 10-year-old AYSO game getting upset at the refs and just deciding they could walk in the field. And then started talking shit to Fox, and the announcers kind of let it go. I thought it was pretty embarrassing, actually. I thought it was weird. Counter though, I think Brunson might be the enforcer of this Knicks team. He might, you know, they don't really— Towns, Anunoby, Mikal Bridges. Bronson, Josh Hart gets a little feisty sometimes. Mitchell Robinson can throw some elbows, but if there was ever like a brawl, I feel like Rick Bronson would be the first guy in it. So in some ways it's a little embarrassing that he still behaves like he's coaching an 11-year-old AAU team with his son. On the other hand, he might be the toughest guy on the bench. So I think Lavar Ball still has this title. Adam from Waterloo, Ontario. Says, um, I talked about the prolonged misery, misery title belt, about how the Knicks are probably the most miserable team with the most fans.
Toronto's in there too. And Adam points out there's really a ton of parallels between the Knicks and the Leafs. A title drought of 50-plus years, center of the universe for their respective sport, having to deal with the fact that their biggest rival is actually the more decorated franchise, the Celtics and the Habs. So the Celtics for the Knicks and in the, uh, the Canadiens, one of my least favorite franchises. I'm so excited they didn't win this year. Um, for the Maple Leafs, hell, the Leafs have even endured their own Dolan-esque batshit owner situation. Go ahead and Google Harold Ballard. Pretty good Google. The Leafs are at least 20% of the reason that Will Arnett still smokes cigarettes. Can't speak to that. Um, and then he said, my favorite part of this email is that you have to acknowledge the Celtics are the Habs of the NBA. I think this is a great parallel. And even though Toronto doesn't have as many fans and they have the generations of fans like the Knicks do, the city's not as big as New York, but it's big. It's one of the biggest Canadian cities. And if they ever really got into the finals the way the Knicks did with a good team that had a chance to win, I think we'd be running all of the same checkmarks that we're running with the Knicks right now.
So I like that. Um, I didn't really like your joke about the Celtics being the Habs of the NBA, so I'm gonna ignore that. This is a good one, um, from Jeffrey Thompson. Oh no, I'm sorry, this is from Michael in Los Angeles, then the next one's from Jeffrey Thompson. I feel like anytime a role player has a good game in the playoffs, everyone's too quick to anoint it as the blank game. Alex Caruso goes off against the Spurs. It's already the Caruso game. Luke Kornet makes a game-altering block. It's the Luke Kornet game. Not really, but we said in the moment, but he said, which the blank games do you think stand the test of time? What's in the running for the best the blank game along with Jordan's flu game? I put some thought into this. I'm going to give us some thought starters and I'm not ready to have a final list yet.. But just off the top of my head, these were the 10 that came to mind for games. The Robert Horry game. Now he's the king of this. I wrote a whole column about this for ESPN that I then kind of turned into the Robert Horry chapter in my book about the best thing about Robert Horry is if you said, oh yeah, the Robert Horry game, you wouldn't know which game you were talking about.
It could have been the the shot he made against Sacramento. It could have been that unbelievable barrage of points that he scored in Game 5 against Detroit when Rashid fouled him at the end, which is one of the dumbest plays of the century. But he had multiple Robert Horry games, but he's a good one. The Steve Kerr game, 2003 Dallas Game 6. Steve Kerr, it's like a sports movie. Steve Kerr barely playing anymore, comes in, hits 4 threes, and it's great. And it's the Steve Kerr game. You know that one immediately. The Bennett-Salvatore game, game 5, 2006 Finals. Yeah, the O.J. game. Not O.J. Mayo, O.J. Simpson. Game 5 of the 1994 Finals. That's a really good one because that was the car chase split screen. The J.R. Smith game, game 1, 2018. Derek Fisher game. There might be some people pushing for game 4 of the Finals against Orlando. I think it was game 4 when, um, I think it was Raefer Alston, maybe Jameer Nelson, one of those guys didn't realize Fisher was gonna shoot a 3 with 9 seconds left and the Lakers are down 3. Some of the worst defense of that decade.
But the Derek Fisher game is a 0.4-second shot against the Spurs. The Heat game, this is for Boston fans only. This was Game 5 of the 1984 Finals when it was 100-plus degrees and Larry Bird somehow wasn't fazed by the elements. The Jason Terry game, underrated. Game 5, 2011, Dallas, when he hits, I think the number one heat check shot I've ever seen in person. He's there, they have the lead, there's like 30 seconds left. Either Wade or LeBron, I haven't seen in a while, Wade or LeBron gets switched on him and the shot clock's running down a little bit, but he's maybe 4 feet behind the line. And just says, fuck it, and takes this 3 and makes it. And the crowd absolutely lost their shit. The Mavs fans know what I'm talking about. This was, as great as that Dirk was that whole time, and it was the Dirk, and that, that's it. He's the story from that. Jason Terry making that 3, you could argue, was the greatest moment in Mavs history. It was so incredible to be there for that. And I still can't believe he took it. 'cause it wasn't, we love Jason Terry, but it wasn't like he was the best guy in the team.
It was like, I'm not even sure Kobe would've taken this. And he was just like, fuck it, I'm taking it. But I love that one. So that's the Jason Terry game for me. And then you have the flu game, and then you have the Artest melee, which isn't the Artest game. But those were the 10 that jumped to mind for me. The flu game is still the number one biggest impact, most important, most famous blank the game. Or the blank game. And, uh, really important to the Jordan legacy. Jeffrey Thompson sent this before Game 3. He said, if the Spurs win Game 3 and whatever happens after is bad for the Knicks, will we call it the Trump game?
Yes.
If the Knicks lose this series, which, you know, doing this midway through the series, but I think the Trump game will rise into that group that I just mentioned. Well, you'll know immediately what the Trump game was. Elias Posey from Milwaukee says, you mentioned comparisons between KAT and various players and how they turned their careers around improbably and became impactful playoff guys. I did that on Sunday's pod. I think you missed an obvious parallel, Pau Gasol. To Towns, very talented big men, questions about their ability to be top-level championship guys. You pair them up with all-time leaders, clutch guys. Yeah, Jalen, we're throwing him in there. And through proximity, that guy levels up into a true number 2 option. Maybe not as many questions with Powell, but I think that's the closest comp. I think that's great. I'm mad at myself that I didn't think of that. You forget after the 2008 Finals, even after the trade and they make the Finals with them, there were still questions about, are you, Is Pau tough enough to be the guy, the number 2 guy on a title team? Is this a good enough wingman for Kobe?
And he shed that. And I still— I'm going to duck. The Laker fans are going to get so mad. There was a real case for Pau to be the 2010 Finals MVP. I'm already on the record. I always think the best player on a team should win unless they're an absolute disaster. But I thought Powell was awesome in that series. And if we're gonna do the Iguodala-Curry thing, or we're gonna do the Jaylen Brown over Tatum thing, and, and that's just our mentality with picking Finals MVPs, that we're not bringing in who's the best player, who has the biggest responsibility. I thought Powell swung Game 7. Like that series came down to one game and Powell going against KG, who admittedly wasn't the same KG after the surgery and no Kendrick Perkins and Rasheed Wallace playing 35 minutes, basically passing out on the court. Powell bullied us that game and I sat behind the basket second half. He bullied us and he's the reason I thought they won Game 7. So yeah, that Towns versus Powell, good one. Corey wants to know from Kelowna, Kelowna, if you could put Wembenyama on any team from the past, Who would you pick just for fun?
And he said, as a British Columbia guy, I'm biased towards Steve Nash. Put Wemby on those Suns teams and I think it would've been unbelievable. He said you could also just put them on the Jordan Bulls, Curry, Durant. Well, that's not fun. I was thinking '80s Lakers. If you put him, if you just time machined him in for Kareem for the '87 and '88 teams, what that would look like. This is a very strange question. But yeah, but Steve Nash, maybe the answer is Steve Nash. I was trying to think of centers that would've— it just would've— Wemby would've been unleashed versus the center they had. And tough question. You broke my brain with that one. I'm much more ready to talk about World B Free and Chuck Robinson. Nat H in Oakland wants to know, I listen to your podcast with Mahoney. You detailed all the Finals MVPs with funky results. Igoudala, Tony Parker, Jaylen Brown. Why don't we replace Finals MVP with Playoffs MVP? Playoffs MVP would clear up all of this. I pushed for this hard in my book, and I even laid out who all the Playoff MVPs would be. And I have a document that has all of it out, and it's very helpful.
Like, the ultimate example of this is Tim Duncan in 2007. If you handed out a Playoff MVP, He wins. He was the most important player in that team. He should have won. And there's no record because the Finals MVP went to Parker and that's all we had, um, of him being the most important player in that team. I would say the same for Tatum in 2024, by the way. In general, I like having it and I think there's some good arguments like 2015, the question would be, could a losing player win this? Um, 2015. You could make a case LeBron could have been the playoffs MVP with everything he did throughout the entire playoffs. But I'd like— here's the thing, who's not interested in this? I didn't really like the Eastern-Western Conference Finals MVPs because I think giving out awards before the end of the championship, I think can— screw a team up a little bit. I don't know if it was awesome for the '24 Celtics. I also don't like Finals MVP 'cause it's a small sample size, but I'm not against having it if we had playoffs MVP too. And not only that, I would do like what they do with the NCAA where I would have my, my first team all playoffs team at the end of the year because the whole point of this is you want to be able to look back at this 30 years from now and remember like, oh, what, Who was the best guy in the playoffs?
Who was the best guy in the Finals? Who were the best 5 guys in the playoffs? And like, if you did it for these playoffs, you would have Wembenyama and you would have Jalen Brunson. You'd probably have Towns, right? So there's 3. I think you would have Stephon Castle as the 4th. And then who's the 5th? If I was just picking, like, these are— because it doesn't just have to be guys who could be from the Finals, right? Like, maybe Maybe SGA is your 5th guy on that. Or maybe it's— no, it's nobody from Cleveland. But anyway, I like that. I like when— the more we can do to capture snapshots of a season, the more happy I am. And then the last question I got, just a lot of where's Giannis going? Where do you think he's going? Is the trade going to happen before then? I thought Boston was out of this. I know Boston was out of this, and I was wondering if they were playing possum or not. I think they were playing a little possum. I think they're in on Giannis, so I'm not recanting what I said before. I, I don't really know the reasons for it.
Maybe they felt like Miami's offer is an offer they could beat. Maybe they wanted to drive, maybe they want to drive the price of Miami's offer up and they don't actually have interest in him. But as I said over and over again, Giannis is pushing for Miami or Boston. Those are the two locations and really wants to end up in Boston because it would have the best chance to win a title. And I think Boston is not ruling out the idea, is my intel. And in general, I'm prepared for anything of Boston now. I think you could basically say I'm prepared. It goes back to the Brad Stevens speech right after the Philly series when he was really mad about the result. And really questioning whether this was the right style and whether they needed to be in the paint more. And I, I wonder if they're gonna use this opportunity with the assets they have with the $27 million trade exception to completely change what this team looks like. So who knows, they might not do anything, but I thought they were sitting out this Giannis thing and I no longer think that. That's all I'm gonna say.
We're gonna take a break. We're going to come back with Cousin Sal and Anthony DiBundo, and we're going to talk World Cup. All right. The World Cup is here. Anthony DiBundo is in Los Angeles. Cousin Sal is also in Los Angeles. Somehow they're not together, but they are on the Ringer Gambling Show. And we have the World Cup. Wait a minute.
What? Wait a minute. You are not there either. Nobody wants to be with DiBundo.
I thought it was the three fellas only. I thought it was going to be everybody.
I'm so upset. He's like, why did they put me on a bus to stay in a hotel and blog 3 blocks from Skid Row. What am I doing? No one comes to see him.
He's— I came to LA, I'm staying downtown, and I'm like, okay, they're gonna go to Hollywood to go to the Sycamore Studio. I'm like, great, can't wait to see it. Sal, what time you coming in? He said, coming in? I'm not doing that. Then I'd have to get lunch with you.
No way. We have him in Skid Row working on ballots, sending in for ramen to try to lock down second place. Um, guys, the World Cup is here. It's 6 weeks, Sal. You always get really sad after the NBA Finals. Yeah. And then you make some NBA draft bets and then you talk yourself into Wimbledon and then you lose some bets on that. And then July is just a wasteland for you. But now you have World Cup every day basically. And then my favorite thing about you is you pretend you know what's going on in the World Cup. DeBundo actually knows who has a bigger advantage. You were DeBundo, you bandwagon soccer fan coming in, or DeBundo who's thought about this way too much?
Oh, I, I would hope that he has the advantage. I mean, I'm actually excited for him. He, because he has never, he has gone on record saying he's never been this excited for an event. He told me in private he hasn't been this excited since the first time a woman touched his pishadil, which is like, um, like 6 weeks ago. So it's a vivid memory.
April 27th. He said he had the date.
No, it's good for you, Debundo.
Debundo, what's your favorite thing about this? Is it America rooting for The host country or the bets?
Uh, it's just everything surrounding the World— it's the fact that once the games kick off, we don't have to talk about FIFA. We don't have to talk about ticket prices. We don't have to talk about all of the kind of disastrous stuff that's happened in the lead up to this World Cup. We get to talk about the games, the culture. I mean, all the videos that are coming out, you got this German guy who's like doing a tour of the American South and he's, he's got a huge following just going to fast food places and sporting events. And people are like, this is so cool. You've got people in Kansas who are like, we're so happy to root for Algeria because they, they chose to come stay with us in Lawrence, Kansas.
Right?
Yeah. So that is the beauty of this tournament, is that at the end of the day, we're all coming together to watch sports. And like, yes, I'll of course be rooting for my bets. I'll be adopting other countries, hoping the US doesn't let us down. Uh, but there's just so much to get excited about for this.
So who do you root for now that Italy's not involved? Somehow.
I know, I know. We lost our home country. Yeah, we did lose our home country and I'll, I'll root for the US, but let's, let's get it off the table. It's not a good bet. The US futures. I'm sorry. Because every book, it's like the, the biggest liability if US wins. Like this is, this is betting Conor McGregor against Floyd, right? Like this is the, the, every line should be different. DeBondo, am I wrong about that? Have they adjusted? No, they're not adjusted.
We're not gonna win the World Cup. We're not gonna win the World Cup. And if we did win the World Cup, I, I said this in, in Sweden last week to a few of our other soccer fans at The Ringer. I think I might be done with sports if we win the World Cup. Done with soccer. There's no reason, there's nothing that will ever top that in, in soccer.
Yeah.
So why am I even hanging around? I'm done.
Well, don't, we don't have to hang around. It's not happening.
We don't.
Exactly.
Now I'm rooting for it. I want the bundel to be done with soccer.
This would be great. Yeah. Let's start with that. All these bets are on FanDuel or all these odds USA to make the final 16. Is -130, which seems high to me. Minus, like, really? That's better than even odds that the USA is gonna be one of the 16 teams left. Do you buy that one at all? That seems like a bad price.
And we just talked about this on the Ringer Gambling Show, actually. I do think that we're at the point now with the US men's national team where maybe everybody's a little too down on them.
And oh, are you zagging? This is exciting.
I'm making the case. I'm making the case. They have not really lived up to the hype of this golden generation, and people have had a whole hundred think pieces and theories on, on why it is that the US hasn't been what we all hoped they would be. But the number one reason is that this group of players, this core group, it's, it's, you could talk about the heart, all these other things. They have not been healthy. Tyler Adams, Christian Pulisic, Weston McKennie, Serginho Dest, all these key players for the Americans. Have missed a ton of soccer over the last 4 years, to the point where you can basically count on one hand the number of games they have played with a full-strength team in the last 4 years. And it's still fragile, but the team that they're rolling up with on Friday night against Paraguay is about as healthy as they're going to be. Chris Richards is still in doubt, but looks like he's going to start. So why not the United States? This is the— still the most talented group. They have a system that I think works. In this, this back 3 that Pochettino's adopted.
They have a ton of pressing energy and right now for at least the first game, they're healthy in a group that's pretty winnable. I'm buying, I'm buying the US. Wow.
Sal, what are your thoughts?
Well, I think that number that you just read, -130, it probably should be +140. I think people are betting they're out of their minds there. And let's look at Friday night, like USA is -110. Are they going to give free money out Friday night? Like everybody looks at that. Oh, what a convenient number. -110. That's what we all deal with. It's a coin flip game that's got draw written all over it. The Bundo, you know, it does.
Yeah. Well, we got to go through— I still don't understand the soccer betting. The 3 odds are -110, +240, and +330. Yeah. So plus— so one of those is the draw. +240. We're betting like after 90 minutes. It's a tie game, +240. Even Sal doesn't want to bet that. And Sal loves, Sal loves nothing more than betting on the things nobody else wants to bet on. Right. You can't even talk yourself into a draw. You're the same person who bets on no buzzer beaters in March Madness, which is the least fun bet an American human being can make.
It's the most fun.
I don't even think you would bet on the draw.
I wouldn't. What I like to do is with soccer, because you know, I, I love waking up and having money on something. So I'm EPL all year and everything, but I like the double chance, and the bundle laughs at me, but I like to find a dance partner with the double chance, which means the US either draws or wins. That's +0.5 goal at -475, and then I parlay it with 6 other things that lose. So that's what I would do. It's not necessarily taking the draw, but it's covering yourself a little bit.
One of my favorite parts of working with Sal, you know, the last year or so is that it'll be like a random Tuesday afternoon and I'll be just at my desk or something and I'll get a text from Sal, Real Madrid plus a half with like a money bag sign next to it. And like they scored like a last second goal to tie.
Yeah.
At like 3:30 in the afternoon. And he's just locked in on Real Madrid versus Osasuna. And he's celebrating. That's it.
4 more legs to, I have like 3 more UFC guys to win before I cash that parlay.
But yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's, that's how it goes. Well, the bigger gambling story with you guys is the French ump and I think bankrupted both of you.
Oh, terrible.
What happened? How do you declare for bankruptcy, Bundo? Is it like the— like, do you have to go through Spotify? Is it like an individual thing? How does it work?
You tell me, Bill. I don't know. I, I have to, uh, I gotta text from Danny Heifetz like 3 minutes after Sinner lost. He goes, are you still liquid? I hadn't heard from Heifetz in like a month and a half. He's been ducking my calls. Yeah, he's been busy, you know.
I think he got married or something. Yeah, you got me.
Yeah, he's, he's on his honeymoon now. It's the summer of Haifetz, but he still managed to get in a text to me that said, hey, uh, you still liquid after Sinner just died in the heat. Barely. We are still liquid, but—
well, so you know more about tennis than literally any human being I know, right? How did we not factor in the French Open gets super hot and this means anybody could die in the heat and who were the top 5 people most likely to die in the heat? Where was that conversation? 'Cause Sal, I know I didn't have it with the Bundó. Did he have it with anyone?
No, we talked about it. We just chose to ignore it.
This is what he does. He has all this knowledge and he knows the players and he waits for you to talk about a matchup and then he loves to correct you on the pronunciations of, oh, it's Svantek. It's not Svantek. It's, there's an N in there somewhere. It's like, screw you. You told me Sinner at -275 was undervalued.
Yeah.
And I didn't know that freaking cramped up like my wife, the third week of, you know, whatever. I don't want to get into it., but for God's sake, you're betting against cramps in these French Open. Yeah. These hot, warm weather, uh, tournaments.
Well, it really sounds like global warming is now changing the French Open that we once knew and that anybody could just, it could be 98 degrees and somebody could just die. I've never seen the highlights of that Sinner match were unbelievable. And I don't know why you don't just retire when it gets to that point. You, you're basically just like a boxer wobbling around, falling into the ropes and all that stuff. All right, we digress.
I mean, he, he's not the only one too. There was a bunch of players. I mean, one player, Menschik collapsed on the court. He had to be wheelchair off and then he won his next match and then won another match into that. So, you know, Casper Ruud had a, had a heat stroke, went into the, to the locker room, came back and then won the match. So I don't know, it's, it's, it's crazy. But global warming is the biggest threat to Jannik Sinner's tennis dynasty.
No question. All right. USA, Paraguay Friday night, SoFi Stadium. Los Angeles, California, and basically they're saying USA is dead even to win. It feels like this is the sucker bet of a lifetime just to grab USA to win. What, what is the case for not making this bet, Tobundo, other than it's a sucker bet?
Paraguay's really good defensively. Uh, that's their calling card. They only give up 10 goals in South America during qualifying. Uh, they're a very defensively organized team with a ton of like pressing defensive energy. So traditionally the US has kind of struggled against these kind of teams, especially the South American ones, because what the US lacks is that deep-lying passer, that player who can make that special pass that unlocks a defense that's very tightly congested. But I will say, and this is why I like the back 3, they are freeing up Anthony Robinson and Serginho Dest, who are traditionally fullbacks at the club level. They're playing more like as wingers almost, essentially, in this system. And I think Dest could be one of the keys to unlocking some of these, you know, more defensive teams because he's so effective at getting in space on the right and then playing crosses in. He has a really good connection with Pulisic. They connected at the last World Cup. They connected for the opening goal against Senegal in the friendly there. So I think Dest is kind of one of the underrated X factors for them trying to break down a team that's going to make it as difficult as possible to score.
So I'm going to just end up betting us because I'm going to the game and I want to root for it. Why not? I have to ask though, your son Jack, Hall of Fame zagger, loves swimming against the stream more than anybody. It feels like him not rooting for USA has to be in play right now, right? What country has he picked that's not America?
He likes Cameroon, of course.
Yeah.
I feel that's old news. I feel like that's a '90s World Cup team that you would like, but—
So he's in Cameroon. Did he get the jersey?
He likes Cameroon. Yes. There's something, there's the Amazon guys banging on our door right now. I'm sure there's some kind of Cameroonian item. Coming here.
I, I would say, is he aware that they're not in the World Cup?
Uh, no, I don't think he knows.
Don't tell him, don't tell him. He'll just be searching for the games.
Their first game is in 4 years.
I'm on pins and needles waiting to see who he picks on the fly on Friday when he realizes they're not actually in.
I'm going Sean O'Malley, Sean O'Malley UFC parlayed with USA plus a half a goal. Oh, and that gets it to like -170 or something stupid.
Sean O'Malley with USA plus half a goal. Yeah. So USA has to score a goal.
We could add something there.
No, they just have to, they just need to not lose.
Need to not. All right. Gotcha. Yeah. So they're basically minus or plus 0.5 goals. Yeah.
That's it.
Yeah. Sal, I know you've studied this probably way longer than you should have. There's two different ways to look at who's gonna win the World Cup. One is, who do you think's gonna win? And the second is, what's the best value to bet on? You and I always tend to gravitate toward value over the actual logical, here's who we think's gonna win. So what is your value pick for the World Cup?
My value pick, believe it or not, is Europe to win at -350. Europe, the whole continent. Yes. Don't laugh at these winners. This is a winner. You don't, you don't think, right? I mean, we might get an all-European Final Four. You think we could get an all-European Final Four, right? Like Portugal, England, France, Spain. It should be 1 through 4 there. And the Bundo has taken Spain after all this, after all the money Spotify's had to send him out here. He's just taking the favorite after all this. But you could expand on it.
It does feel like the coward's way out. I know, I hate it. Yeah. Also, their best player's not playing in the start of the tournament and has a hamstring injury, grade 2, that he's coming back from. So what, we'll see what it looks like with Jamal when he gets into the, into the tournament. But ultimately by process of elimination, I crossed off everybody else and was like, I guess I'm picking Spain.
So who do I get with Europe at -350? 'Cause the favorites right now, the top 8 are Spain, France, England, Portugal, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Netherlands, and then Belgium and Norway after that. Yeah. And, and we all know England's not winning the World Cup, so you, You have Europe, but also knowing that they're, well, it is England. This is, yeah, this is, although maybe if the Knicks win the finals, maybe, maybe now England is on the table. Maybe anything's possible. But do you like that -350 to Bundó or no? You, you seem like you're scoffing at it.
No, no, I, I do agree. I think the 3 best teams, and I think they're a, a, a small tier above the rest, are Spain, France, and England. England, I think, is the best defense in the field. France is the most talented team in terms of just naming guys, but you know, they're, they're a squad that have kind of underperformed their talent in terms of the eye test the last few tournaments, especially at the Euros 2 years ago when France looked pretty undercooked. They struggled to create chances at that, and they had a lot of the same players they do now. And then last year at the Nations League, and this is why I picked Spain over France, Spain and France have played each of the last 2 summers in the semifinals. At the Euros, they beat them 2-1. And France really couldn't generate much in the whole second half. Spain just kept the ball and really dominated the second half of that game. And then last year in the Nations League, Spain won 5-4, but it was 5-1. It was a total demolition until France scored a bunch of consolation goals in the last 5 minutes, 10 minutes.
So, you know, Spain has kind of been dominating France the last couple of summers. I don't think that much has changed— same managers, same midfields. Similar attacks. You, Lamine Yamal is kind of the one big X factor. If, if they play again in the semifinals, I don't know how you wouldn't favor Spain over France.
So the biggest threat to -350 Europe is what?
Argentina repeating.
But you also, aren't you shorting them in the group stages? Brazil and Argentina, or just Brazil?
I'm shorting Brazil. Yeah. I think Morocco's somewhat live there.
Yeah. Europe's good. Let's, let's get on that. Let's get some nice NFL money bundled together there.
Simmons, we can get it. Can we parlay that with the Chiefs to win the AFC West? Oh no, that bet's dead. What is our, what is our easy NFL bet that we could just throw in every year and feel great about it? We had the Pats to win the AFC East for the first 15 years I knew you, basically.
Yeah.
And then it became the Chiefs for the AFC West. Is, do we have that team now? I don't feel like we do anymore.
It's kind of sad Cardinals to come in 4th place. I don't know what we would do. Yeah. Let me throw something your way.
Well, I liked, I heard on Gambling Show you talked about the Browns under 5.5 wins. Yeah. And you locked that down now post-Myles Garrett trade. I thought that was right. Like they're gonna play Sanders all year. Like I, it's not like their schedule's super easy. Right. 5-12 or worse feels like the best over-under I've heard for wins so far.
We don't even have to hit it.
Feels like there's, there's more NFL tanking teams than usual heading into the season. Yeah. Jets, Cardinals, Dolphins, Browns.
It's more than normal. Well, because it's all the quarterbacks. So this is, this is right. We, this was the thing and we all did bad with basketball over-unders, the totality of them for the win totals. Mm-hmm. And the thing we didn't realize was with as many teams tanking as we're tanking, it actually weirdly shoved the records upward. 'Cause over and over again you had two shitty teams that didn't want to win playing each other. So you had all these teams in the 20s and high 20s. Debundo, a team that's never won the World Cup will win the World Cup is +200.
Wow. Terrible bet.
Seems terrible. 'Cause these are the countries, if you're looking, yeah, well, it's Netherlands, Portugal, Belgium, Croatia, Hungary, basically. USA and USA, but USA's not winning. Come on. So, so first-time winner no is -260.
I was about to say that if you're looking for like a bridge jumper bet, a huge, like, we're just gonna lay a, a huge number, that is my favorite one.
There will be—
that's better than Europe wins the World Cup. I think so.
Yes. Could we parlay Europe will win the World Cup with, with it won't be a first-time winner? I don't know if that— is that legal on FanDuel? Probably not.
Um, probably a little too correlated.
Yeah. Yeah. I like the no first-time winner at -260. I like the odds more than the -350 for the Europe one.
I'm doing well. Yeah, the 7— there, there's 7 teams that I think are, are in the quote unquote favorites tier, and you could break them up. You could say contender, pretender with, with all those 7, but 6 of those 7 have won it, and the one team that has never won it is Portugal. And we're gonna get into futures, I guess, a little bit later, but the, the Ronaldo problem is kind of the defining situation for Portugal right now. And how they solve that is not very obvious to me.
The problem is that they probably shouldn't be playing him as much as everyone expects them to play him. And I feel like we were there 4 years ago with this. Yeah.
Right.
We, we were, and, and 2 years ago and last year and we're still doing it. Yeah.
So this is like LeBron, if LeBron's on the Dream Team at age 45, it's like, well, it is LeBron and you just kind of have to throw him out there.
But I, I think LeBron would be more willing to take like a third or fourth chair role and be like a really good passer IQ player. But Ronaldo, that like, they have built this entire attack around him. Portugal, most crosses of any international team the last two years. Their midfield is elite. They have probably the second best midfield at the tournament. Fernandes, Vitinha, Neves. Like, it's an amazing trio that can do a lot of different things. Fernandes just broke the record for assists. In the Premier League, and yet they end up just playing all the crosses into Ronaldo. They have nobody who runs in behind. It's like, this is not optimal. And as a result of Ronaldo and Rafael Leão, their left winger, not really doing a lot of defensive work, their defense isn't that good. Like, they struggle defensively relative to the, to the, you know, top elite teams. They're not as good defensively. So they have a manager who likes to attack, they have a manager who's relying on Ronaldo, and like, they just need to tell Grandpa, like, they got to take the keys from him. And say, you know, hey, you're allowed to go to the grocery store, but no more, no more highway driving, no more starting matches.
But the problem is it's Ronaldo. So how do you say it? Like, what do you say?
We're having the exact, we're having the exact same problem right now with Chris Ryan. Like, he's on too many pods. People are saying you gotta phase it back. He's at a different point of his career.
No, I'm kidding. Simmons, this reminds me of, of, of when you coached the, the celebrity basketball game and then you try to take Snoop out. And, uh, he's like, nah, I'm not coming out. Was it Stoop?
Who was it? Stoop put himself back in. He just looked me in the eye and said, I'm gonna go back in. There was like 5 minutes left. I was like, okay, Stoop. He just, we kind of had a moment. No, Kevin Hart was the one I had to get. I just couldn't take him out cuz he was the biggest star in the game. Right. And, uh, right. And Michael B. Jordan, who was the best player in the game. And it's just like, oh, we, we could win if we just give Michael B. Jordan the ball. But Kevin Hart's doing ISO. I'm still mad about it.
I mean, you, you go back 4 years ago, right? And this was the crazy thing that happened at the World Cup. Portugal started Ronaldo in the group stage. They played Switzerland in the round of 16, and they played this young up-and-coming striker named Gonçalo Ramos, who's now at PSG. And Gonçalo Ramos scored a hat trick and they beat Switzerland 6 to 1. Yeah. And everybody was like, that's it, they're moving on. Like he's been, he's been usurped. The next match they play Morocco, they lose 1-0, and everybody's like, well, you know, it wouldn't have happened if they had started Ronaldo.
Yeah.
And then they went through the next qualifying cycle and Ronaldo scored a bunch of goals against a lot of bad teams. He's still very capable if he just stands in the penalty area and creates space. He's got great instincts, the vet, the vet classic move. But they get back to the international tournament, Euro 2024, and it almost got comical at the end. Like, it was kind of sad because he kept taking all the free kicks. He was trying to get his goal. Then they won a penalty kick against Slovenia. He missed the penalty. And he's crying on the field and you're like, this is actually getting to the point where it's like a little uncomfortable. Yeah. If you're trying to like do a hate watch, it's like, man, this is, I don't like Portugal. I bet against them. But like, this is, this is kind of awkward now. Uh, and here we are again. He shows up to the World Cup. I hope he gets a goal early on. They've got a, they've got a couple easy games to start the group. Uh, I think they'll be fine in the group stage, but you get to the knockouts and I think they're vulnerable.
What isn't it? Only 8 teams ever have won the World Cup or 8 countries.
Yes. 8 countries, right? Italy, Uruguay, and then the big 6 favorites in this field.
Right. And Italy is no longer out. Okay. Before we get to DeBundo's favorite futures that Sal and I are gonna critique. Mm-hmm. Sal, are you a straight up or a parlay strategy guy for the World Cup? Because I think both you and I fall into trouble when we start grabbing things from different games and we talk ourselves into it.
Yeah.
But it would seem like almost with World Cup, straight up would be the smarter way to play it. And yet neither of us are gonna do that.
Of course not. In fact, I got a whopper to throw at you guys real quick before we get to the bundo.
The bundo, I need, I need a legal pad.
Which one's the draw? You know, illegal pad. 'Cause I don't know if this is gonna work, but which one's the, which one's the draw? Which one screws me? Germany to beat Curaçao on Sunday. Spain to beat Cape Verde on Monday. Norway to beat Iraq. On the 16th, Brazil to beat Haiti on the 19th, France to beat Iraq on the 22nd, pays 1.50.
A 5-teamer?
5-teamer. These are monster numbers, as you can imagine. It adds up to -1.50. Who screws us?
Uh, I mean, I think Iraq is one of the 3 worst teams. I think Curacao was one of the 3 worst teams. Cape Verde is decent. And they're not good, but they're— they could compete with Spain, especially without Jamal. And like, Spain is liable to have one of those.
They would create a whole thing and they can't get by Cape Verde on Monday. Are you kidding me?
Yes. I mean, I don't— I think it's going to be a winner. I think that one of the storylines, if you're being critical of the expanded format, is to say that traditionally the World Cup has not had a lot of blowouts in the group stage. There's just not that many bad, bad teams. The gap here is pretty big. I mean, Spain, 3-goal favorite in their first game. Germany, 3.5-goal— like, there could be some real 5-6-nil pastings. Whereas at the last World Cup, we only had like 1 or 2 in the whole tournament that were like that. This tournament, with Haiti, Curaçao, expanded Qatar, you know, it's like there's some teams here that, that really aren't on the level. So you could see some crazy blowouts more than you're used to seeing.
With those multi, multi-game parlays, do we worry about the heat at all with that French Open style? Because there's going to be some games that are super hot. And yes, in temperatures that aren't, are pretty unusual for world-class soccer. And I'm wondering, could that swing one of these?
One of the funniest photos/videos from the Club World Cup last year, 'cause right, a lot of these players played in their club teams, played in, in the US last summer, including Bayern. The players would actually sit in the locker room, in the dressing room during the first half, the subs, just so they wouldn't sit on the bench and overheat. It's like Bayern was like, we're gonna keep our subs in the dressing room, in the air conditioning, watching on a TV screen for the first half, and then we'll bring 'em out for the second half. They'll be fresh.
Smart.
Yeah.
They won't be exhausted. I, I do wonder if we see that because the studies have shown that any, any soccer game that kicks off above 85 degrees, there is a noticeable decline in just output, pressing, shots, goals. The game just slows because the players don't have the, the stamina to play like that. Uh, it still favors the better teams though. 'cause they just have more good players they can bring on. You get 5 subs, it's a big advantage. So, uh, I think ultimately, like, you know, the, the small minnow nations that don't have the subs are gonna be the ones that hurt the most from the heat.
Who has the most gingers, I guess, is what we're looking at, right?
That's true. Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Sunburn.
I mean, we didn't have those studies. Scottish, Scottish maybe.
Right. Scottish. Um, all right.
Short Scottish.
Norwegians.
We didn't have those studies when my daughter is playing youth soccer in Norco at 103 degrees and we're doing 2 games in 3 hours and kids are collapsing in in the field. We're like, pull 'em off, get a sub in. Wait, before we go to your futures, Debundo, Serena Williams in Wimbledon. There's no way to, there, there's no, it's not on FanDuel.
Is she playing singles?
I don't know. Are you following this? Is it, is, could it be doubles? Could it be singles? Like, it feels like we're drifting towards something and I feel like this story should be 100 times bigger than it is.
I mean, she played doubles yesterday, uh, Tuesday, with Victoria Mboko, who's one of the top young up-and-coming players. She's Canadian, and they won comfortably in the first round. They played two players I'd never heard of. Uh, the crowd though at the Queen's Club in London was amazing, just every seat filled. Uh, it has a chance to, to be a huge story, but they haven't come out with wild cards yet. I, I can't imagine that she's playing singles already.
Can I give you my theory?
Doubles Does she get on center court?
Why not? Doubles for Wimbledon, paving the way for US Open in August.
Singles run.
Singles. Yeah. Like, this is— I've always thought this. I've been predicting this for years. She's too, she's too great and she's too competitive. And now that her kids are a little bit older, I always thought maybe I—
this—
if she's at the US Open, that would be the fucking greatest thing that could happen for tennis. They would be like Tiger in 2019 at the Masters. Like, can you imagine the crowds for that? Can you imagine playing Serena at the US Open being the other person? Like, what a fucking nightmare.
Well, you know, Venus did this. Venus is not Serena, but Venus did this last summer. Yeah. Where she got a wildcard in DC and she beat Peyton Stearns, and I think it was in the first round, like a top 30 player. And DC was mobbed for Venus Williams. Then she went to the US Open. They put her on the center court the first night against Karolina Muchova, who is a top 15 player. She won a, she won a set off her and I was sitting on the other court on Armstrong and like you could just feel it. Everybody kept looking over their shoulders because the roars coming from Arthur Ashe were so loud. Yeah. That it was almost like distracting the players on Armstrong. And we're all sitting there like, damn, like why aren't we at that match?
Why are we at this match? So my two big summer predictions, Serena, US Open, Serena, Serena, US Open, LeBron and the Warriors. I wanna parlay that really? Yeah. Those two together. I'm convinced both of those things are happening.
Happening. Can we add something that, um, Fandel just threw on the menu there? That Bill's voice doesn't last 6.5 NBA games. You've adopted Doc Rivers's voice. What happened now?
I just need to retire. It's just too much talking this year, doing 2-hour rewatchables, doing live episodes. I'm just dying. I love it.
Bill really needed Nixon. He needed Nixon 4 because his voice wasn't going to make Nixon 6.
Simmons, got him, man. All right, Debundo, it's time. You want to do your 3 favorites, your 4 favorites, or your 5 favorites?
You want to set the over-under on number of futures I have so far?
Oh, it's easily, easily 50, right?
Uh, it's under that.
It's about 17.
33. Oh, 17.
Or you gotta do some work there.
Yeah. All right. Yeah.
So give us— they're not done putting stuff up.
Okay. Give us your best 5 and then Sal and I will critique them as we go. And you can go in descending order from 5 to 1 if you want.
Okay. We're gonna start with number 1, which is my dark horse, a team that I have been a fan of. I'm an honorary, uh, member. I might have to take a trip to Quito, uh, to get excited for this World Cup. Maybe if they, uh, make a deep run, I'll go, I'll go do some tourism with the, the winnings. But, uh, we're gonna be on Ecuador. This is gonna be an Ecuador group.
Oh.
Uh, they are a popular underdog pick, but, uh, I like to think I was at least somewhat early to the show because we bet them at the Copa. 2 years ago. Uh, I think this is a top 5 or 6 defense in the whole world. They are captained and led by a trio of defenders in, in Kimpembe from Arsenal, Pacho from PSG, and then Moises Caicedo, their defensive/central midfielder, who is probably the best ball winner, just pure ball winner in, in the world at Chelsea right now. So we know that they have an elite defensive spine. The big question is, can they score enough goals? Uh, they're led by a 36-year-old Enner Valencia. They have a young kid, Kendry Páez, who Chelsea bought and then loaned out, uh, back to South America. Like, this Ecuadorian team is the textbook definition of the quote-unquote team nobody will want to play in the Knockouts. And I think as a result, like, they're in a tough group. They get Germany, they get Ivory Coast. Like, it's going to be a tough group for them. But when they get in the Knockouts and they're playing a team who's maybe comparable to them or even better than they're very capable of making that match a total stalemate nightmare.
And you can go back even 2 years ago, they played Argentina at the Copa America in the quarterfinals, and they went toe-to-toe with them, lost in the penalties, but were right there and had chances to win that match. Like, this Ecuadorian side is not afraid of anybody. They're physical, they're ready for the heat, they have enough depth to withstand some of the potential, you know, gruelingness of this tournament. So here are the 3 bets that I think are worth placing a little money on. Ecuador to win their group, +380. Ecuador to make the round of 16, +150. And if you wanna get really crazy, +550 to make the quarters. I have them in the quarterfinals in my bracket. I think they can make a run.
Well, you also have South for the semis, 12-to-1. Yeah. Finals, 3-to-1. And to win it all, 100-to-1.
Yeah, they're not winning it all, but—
this is gonna be the team that knocks out one of my European teams, right? That I need to advance to. To the final so I don't have a heart attack.
Yeah. So there's been action on the quarters. It's down to +460 to Bundó.
Wow. Mm-hmm. All right. See, people are obviously, people are tuning into the Starting 11 on YouTube, seeing my video where I'm hyping up Ecuador at every possible—
that could be it. There could be some movement. So 12 to 1 for final 4 is too rich for your blood.
I mean, if you want to get really crazy, you, it wouldn't surprise me, right? Morocco did this and it's not that dissimilar from what Morocco did. Like, we have a very defined way of playing. We're a very good defensive team, and we have 2 or 3 guys who can go on a run and create some chances on the break. And that's kind of what this Ecuador team wants to be. They only gave up 5 goals in 18 qualifying matches, and they're playing Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Uruguay. Like, they played all the good teams and they really, you know, shut them down. They came in second behind Argentina. So I think it's a fun team. Again, like, they might have to grind their way through the group stage because They're not gonna score a ton of goals, but once they get in that knockout, which I think they will, they're gonna be a tough out.
So for the group, Ecuador's in the group with Germany. Yes. So you could do an exact order where you do Ecuador 1, Germany 2, and then you could go either way with the other 2 and do both bets and try to, try to put some major action on that. I like the group bet, Sal.
I know, but how many 3rd place teams make it to the Bundeliga?
8 out of 12.
That's a lot. A lot.
And the thing is, with, with, with, with Curaçao being in that group is kind of like the, the cannon fodder. If you just get 3 points, you're almost certainly advancing unless your goal difference is truly terrible.
Ecuador, Germany, Ivory Coast, that being the top 3, would be +500.
I, and I like, people like the Ivorians too. They have Yande Amande, who's one of the most exciting Ivorians.
See, see, this is why I didn't know those. This is why he's elite. Wow. We wouldn't have known to call them the Ivorians. We would've called them the Ivory Coasters.
Yeah.
Their nickname is Les Éléphants. And, uh, the city of Philadelphia is getting behind them. They're in Philly. We're very excited to root on the Ivorians too.
One more thing with Ecuador, like used to hot weather.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
What's your next one?
Play right on the equator. Used to elevation. If they end up in Mexico, which—
it actually means equator, doesn't it?
Yeah. Yeah.
Ecuador.
Equator.
Wow. Unbelievable.
What's your next one to button up?
Next one, we're gonna go with the most reliable thing in my life, which is Switzerland to do well, make this, make the knockouts of an international tournament, and then lose very quickly once they get there. Uh, Switzerland to win Group B over the Canadians, uh, -120. It was the last I checked it at FanDuel.
So you're not scared at all? Canadians, any home field advantage with that?
Canada, they're the chaos maxers of international soccer. Their manager, Jesse Marsh, who is an American, who has certainly made his feelings known— he's a little bit hurt that he didn't get offered the American job. When it came open once they fired Berhalter. He, uh, is, is known for the, the intense press, the chaotic energy. But the problem is Alphonso Davies is their best player by a wide margin. He's the best player in North America, and he is not healthy. He's coming back from an injury. He might be back at the end of the group stage, but I don't know that he will, and he won't be healthy if he does come back. So that's a problem. Bombito, their, their starting center-back, just got hurt in their last friendly. One of their other main midfielders goes down. So all of a sudden it's not a very deep team. It's a lot of like a couple of stars and some okay MLS guys. Now, uh, they're really, really shorthanded. And I think Canada, like, if they try to press and, and run Switzerland off the pitch, Switzerland is very, very capable and experienced in their midfield. Like, they have so many good passers.
I kind of think the Swiss just beat them, uh, even though they're in Canada. Like, Canada will still advance.
South likes this. South likes going against Canada. It's exciting.
Never mind it.
Never ever mind it.
Yeah, I like John Candy, Michael J. Fox. Otherwise they could go to hell.
Yeah, and they'll, they'll still probably come in second. Yeah, again, this group is not tough. Qatar is, for my money, the worst team in the field. But like, you know, I, I don't see the upside them beating Switzerland. Switzerland's a class, a class above them.
All right, your third pick.
My third pick, we're gonna go back to our, our old friend Ronaldo in Portugal. I think Colombia is another team that I'm, I'm loving to back in these international settings. Um, they have their own Luis Suárez, they have Luis Díaz, James Rodríguez, who is kind of like bookending his career. 2014, he was the Golden Boot winner at the World Cup. He put his name on the map. People, casual soccer fans still know James Rodríguez just because of what he did at that World Cup. His club career never quite worked out to the, to the heights that maybe people thought it would with all of his injuries. But then he comes back and, and when he puts on the Colombia shirt, 2024, he was the best player at the Copa America. He's so good on set pieces, free kicks, that kind of player. Love if the US had one, is, is, is the difference maker at these kind of events. Colombia's +200 to win that group. The most exciting game of the group stage, bar none, Portugal against Colombia in Miami to end the group stage. That is going to be an incredible scene. It'll be two-thirds Colombians, one-third Ronaldo heads.
It's going to be an amazing matchup. But I think Colombia is very live against Portugal, uh, to potentially upset them. And then if Portugal comes in second, all of a sudden the bracket gets very imbalanced. Portugal goes up into the section with France and Germany, and everybody is like, oh, okay, what's going to happen here?
So it's a pretty good one. Sal, does it bother you that America isn't better at set pieces? Feels like the one thing we could really control.
Right. Why?
We could groom a guy to just have the best corner kicks of anyone in the world. This is all like just a— I always feel this way with Pulisic. Like, yeah, I know he has to take it because he's like the guy on the team. I've never really enjoyed his corner kicks or his free kicks. I think he's—
I mean, I, I— the corner kicks, I mean, don't we just need a giant in the middle? Like, that's— I don't want to interrupt, uh, but I, I have Haaland for Golden Boot. Like, that guy's 7 5 and a half feet. You know, he's everyone's favorite Game of Thrones stand-in until that's what you look like. But that, that's what I would do.
That's—
I have a 14 to 1.
Also, I didn't realize we were doing Golden Boot odds. I don't even know where to find those.
You've seen, you've seen him before, Simmons. By the way, Simmons, he is in the top 100 most influential people in sports along with you. Congratulations on that.
Congratulations. Yeah.
Is there a dinner? Is there a group photo at, uh, Ted Sarandos' house?
What happened? I don't know, maybe a group photo at Ted's house.
We'll The Bundo's top 100 least influential people in sports. I don't know if you saw that list, but no, he's skating—
rapidly falling, rapidly falling down the rankings once Ecuador loses every game at the World Cup.
Yeah, he's, he's ripping off winners for us right now.
Okay.
All right, give us—
do speed round.
I will say this though, so the US does have a set piece specialist. The problem is he's bad at everything else.
He's 8 years old.
Yeah, Sebastian Berhalter, the son of former manager Greg Berhalter, is on the roster. Uh, he is incredible. I mean, uh, the manager does like him. Pochettino has spoken highly of him. He said that he's the one guy on the team he doesn't have to rotate because he just has endless energy and all this stuff. And look, Berhalter is a very controversial figure. Both Berhalters are very controversial figures, but Sebastian's free kicks and corners are amazing. I mean, if you go watch the Gold Cup last summer, he had 2 assists on free kicks to Chris Richards.
So are they gonna actually let him do it in the World Cup?
But you have to play. It's not like you can't just sub him in for the, for the free kicks and then take him out again, right? He's like a very mediocre midfielder otherwise. So we might see him late, like if they're down late, you know, and then they, you know, they're rotating through their guys, he's going to play. Yeah, he's one of their main midfielders off the bench. But, uh, their set pieces will get noticeably better when Berhalter takes them as opposed to Pulisic, who has been always kind of, eh, with the free kicks.
It always seems like he should be good at it and he's just not. All right, you gave us 3. Give us 3 speed round quick with no extra explanation and Sal and I will decide what we want to hear out of the 3, which one we like.
3 quick ones. Okay. Uh, so I'll go Morocco.
Yeah.
Morocco to win their group. So they're about +450. Okay. Uh, they're in the group with Brazil, Scotland, and Haiti.
Nope, you're too much info. What's the next one? Too much info?
Yeah. Too much info?
Okay.
Morocco +450 to win the group.
Yeah. Jordan Pickford to win Golden Gloves at +750.
Wow. What, how do you win Golden Gloves? What happens?
Best save percentage. It's the best, the best goalkeeper.
So it's just like best goalie in hockey. Yes. Like the, what is it? The Vezina?
The, the Vezina.
Yeah.
Okay. Basically for the tournament. Now, now England is a boring watch.
Nope.
Go to the next one. They are not. We'll go back. We're interested now. What's the next one?
Yeah. Okay. Uh, Pedri to win Golden Golden Ball, not Golden Boot, Golden Ball. So that's the player of the tournament, 25 to 1.
All right, so Golden Ball is—
so none of them caught your interest?
No. Golden Boot is most goals.
Most goals, yes.
Are there any other Goldens? It's just Golden Boot, Golden Ball.
3 Goldens.
3 Goldens. Golden Girls for the, uh, cutaway to the chick who's bouncing. I don't know, I don't know what they did.
So you can do a Golden Parlay.
The fan cutaways are always special.
Yeah, Golden Mollet would be nice. Yeah, that'd be good.
All right, give us one more and then Sal's gonna decide what he wants more info on.
Uh, let's see, let's go further down. I, I don't want to get too crazy with like Scotland and stuff like that. Um, how about Christian Pulisic to lead the US in goals, +320?
Now you have my attention.
He's the, he's the favorite though, right?
Yeah, he's the co-favorite with Balogun.
Yeah. Yeah. So who, who screws that up if you bet on Pulisic?
Probably Balogun. Okay. The starting striker who, you know, I'm excited to watch. I do think his connection with Pulisic was a little bit off in the, in the friendly against Germany. Like, you know, one of the most encouraging things I think for the United States was that friendly, the first hour against Germany, how much they were able to break through the press and get transition opportunities. And Pulisic and Balogun just didn't quite have the link, but they were close. And like, I think that's maybe one other X factor for the US if they're able to do a better job. Linking up, creating chances, this team could be actually really dynamic going forward.
All right, Sal, your favorite of those four?
Well, I'm torn between two. I like Morocco because like Morocco and, and Snuka and Morocco and Pedro Morales were some of my favorite feuds. And you know, Morocco would take that strap, he would spit on the belt, but he loved it. I like Pickford though for a Golden Glove at +750. It might not even be his doing, right? The bundle, Their defense is so solid, they're gonna be in 1-nothing battles all the way through. And also just an English guy with the glove. They drink tea, they put the white gloves on, they slap each other. It just makes the most sense.
Plus 750.
Okay. And the other thing is like if they somehow do win a penalty shootout, like the England narrative is, oh, they never win the shootouts. What if they did win one or two and all of a sudden Pickford is the hero, right? So that's the guy.
What do you like, Simmons?
Oh, I got one more. Japan, Japan doing group. No, stop, stop.
Enough already. It's supposed to be a half hour.
You're killing me. My, my favorite is Browns under 4.5 wins, plus, plus 155 on Fanduel right now. 4.5? They're, they're winning 5 games, the Browns?
Of course. Disgusting.
Plus 4.5. Plus, I'm ready for— where's the plus 3.5?
I love that. Under 3.5. I love it.
No, they don't have it yet. They only— the lowest they are right now is 4.5, but I'm, I'm 3.5. I'd be ready to activate. All right.
So Deshaun Watson's -196 to be the starting quarterback. Is that worse than Shador or, or Dylan Gabriel? Like they're a mess and we know they don't want to win.
Yeah. They want to have the number one pick in the draft so they could take a quarterback.
Okay. You know what I love, Simmons, real quick, Jared Verse, you know, they get traded for Garrett. He comes on, he's on the Browns roster and they're like, oh, well Dylan Gabriel has the number 8, the Jared Verse. Yeah, right. And Dylan Gabriel's like, they're like, oh, did he pay? He's like, I don't know, man. I was expecting to get money for it, but he kind of just took it.
I saw that. And didn't he brag like, oh yeah, I'm going to be taking number 8 and then just grabbed it.
That's it.
This is mine now.
He got number logged.
It's tough to be a short quarterback. You even might get your jersey taken away. Yeah. Okay. Well, this was good. I think this was good prep for us. Do you have a, do you have a favorite NFL bet, Sal, yet? Is it the Browns under?
Really, like, you know, Jacoby Brissett showing up to Cards training camp really throws a monkey wrench in that NFC West. I'm just excited. Browns under for now. That's the only thing I gave out on the podcast, but we're 93 days away, Simmons, Dwight Freeney, Jon Randle, your boy Richard Singletary.
Little later this year, the September 9th feels a whiff late for us.
Is it?
It just feels something later.
You're one of the top 100 most influential.
Can't they move that up a little? I'll talk to some of the other guys in the community.
Yeah, please.
But yeah, it's on Wednesday this year, right?
Yeah, we're starting— it's, it's starting later and then it's just football games all the time from, from that point on. We go Wednesday, Thursday, no Friday, then Sunday, and then Monday, right? Just for the— and so there's like fantasy football implications season.
Uh, okay, yeah, everybody does their draft the night before the season. You can't even do it this year.
I know, we got 12.
Bad for procrastinators. The NFL is hurting procrastinators.
What would you put for AJ Brown over and under touchdowns this season, Debundo? Ooh, would you go double figures?
That would be high, but I, I think 8.5.
Yeah, I think that's every other, every other game.
So I did have an idea for us for this.
They have his yards at 1,100. Um, AJ Brown, go ahead.
What, what are they? I just think we go under on everybody. It's the one year we just do 50 unders because you think like the quarterbacks, 5 get hurt, just like the top 50. I just think nobody likes to bet unders for future.
Oh, you're talking about yards?
Yeah, for everything. For, yeah, for quarterback yards, for touchdowns, like Over and over again this hits and we just stare at it.
I did this for 20 years.
They, they adjusted a little bit with the vig, like it's the under number will be like -130. But, and you don't like to brag about it because it does rely on guys getting hurt, but if you do it with all 30, let's say 30 running backs are listed, 8 of them are going to be gone by like Halloween. And then you're like, what was the point?
Like, we all spend $50 on a running back, right? And yep, how many of us are happy in November? Like, 2 of them stay healthy, 10 of them get hurt or whatever.
They have some sort of small injury or, you know, I just feel like it's roulette. One of these years, like, you're just hoping, hoping to dodge the bullets all, all season.
Yeah.
But I would say this is year 19 of Guess the Lines, right?
No, this is going to be our 20th year.
This is 20.
So this is that chicken for the anniversary. You guys just do— we're going full hater this year. Here.
Only like just a full— Oh, I like that. Yeah, what we learned, we're just bitter and beaten down.
That'll be after, after Wimbledon and the US Open when we finally get broken by this.
Ecuador screws us thanks to Dibundo.
All right, Sal, did I tell you about Sinner?
I don't know, tell us.
He should be, he should be a bigger favorite for Wimbledon.
Son of a bitch.
Planting my flags, trying to get it back. I like it. All right. You can hear these two on the Ringer Gambling Show all the time, basically. And we have a lot of good World Cup stuff coming. And then Sal, we're within 3 months, we'll be doing our, our annual Double Over/Unders pod sometime in the end of August. But yeah, great to see you guys. Thanks, fellas. Good to see you. Good job by you. Good job by you. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Goldsberry and House. Thanks to Debundo and Sal as well. Thanks to Gajao and Eduardo. I am going to be back Saturday night after Game 5 of Knicks-Spurs. In the meantime, don't forget we put up a new rewatchables. We did Single White Female, super fun, me and Van and Mallory. And the next one's gonna be Hand That Rocks the Cradle. If you wanna watch that on Netflix, um, check out all our podcasts and I'll see you on Saturday night. Must be 21+ in President Select States for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino. Or 18+ and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Opt-in required. Must wager in designated offer market.
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Join The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Joe House, and Kirk Goldsberry to react to Game 4 of the NBA Finals between the Spurs and the Knicks. Then, Bill answers some NBA questions from the mailbag before Anthony Dabbundo and Cousin Sal join to talk about their favorite FIFA World Cup bets ahead of the big tournament.
(0:00) Intro
(01:15) NBA Finals Game 4 reactions with Joe House and Kirk Goldsberry
(41:50) NBA mailbag
(01:09:28) World Cup bets with Anthony Dabbundo and Cousin Sal
Host: Bill Simmons
Guests: Kirk Goldsberry, Joe House, Anthony Dabbundo, and Cousin Sal
Producers: Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Chris Wohlers
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